All right. Good evening. This is a special meeting of Livingston's planning board and notice of this meeting has been distributed in compliance with the open public meetings act. Mr. Ratner here.
Miss Fos >> here. >> Mr. Lewis >> here. >> Mr. Duffford >> here. >> Mr. Patani >> here. >> Miss Wishnu here. >> Miss Connor >> here. >> Chairman Fernandez >> here. >> I'll note for the record that Mr.
Rabber, Mr. Diner, and Vice Chair Santo are not present. We do have our board attorney, our planning consultant, and our traffic consultant. >> Thanks, Jackie. Uh, if you can call the uh first and only matter on tonight's agenda. That matter that's scheduled for this
evening is a continued matter from July 15th. It's for application number 2025-39-LM for block 3700 lots 28 29 and 30 45 partners urban renewal LLC that's for lot merge Mr. Chairman and preliminary and final
site plan. >> Thank you very much and welcome back. >> Thank you Mr. Chairman, members of the board get set up. Derek Ford Taylor on behalf of the Africa this evening. Just make sure this mic is on. There we go. It is
as always a great pleasure to be here in beautiful Livingston with you all this evening and what a wonderful night to be here in town. It's beautiful outside. I thank you all for your time being here indoors when it is so pleasant outdoors. So, as uh Jackie announced,
this is and as Mr. Chairman, as you announced, this is continuation of our application, which was commenced about a month ago seeking preliminary and final major site plan approval for the what is commonly referred to as the Bottle King project. At the last meeting, uh, the
board heard and, uh, testimony was rendered by the applicant, civil engineer, Sammy Wall, and, uh, he has closed his testimony, but he is still here to answer any questions that might arise in the continuation of this application. For the board's consideration this evening, we intend to
kick off with the landscape architect, followed up by traffic, and then finally, if a boy can dream, if an attorney can dream, we would close out with architecture this evening. So, I thank you all for uh my opening statement here. Uh Mr. Chairman, do you have any questions you want me to answer
before we get going? >> Did your did your engineer go through our engineers review reports uh and uh touch upon the comments that the engineer had? Did we were those all covered? >> They were all covered. >> Okay. So, so they're all and I just want to make sure that they're all you know complying with uh with those conditions.
We're all We're good. >> Yes, we did. Um let me uh take one second here, Sam. the uh water and engineer report we will comply with all the condition that they're in. >> Okay. So, we had previously issued an
omnibus response letter where we indicated our responses to all of the conditions in both the engineering and uh planning consultant reports. There was a subsequent water and sewer report which was issued uh right before we testified at the last meeting. My
engineer has just confirmed that we are a will comply on all of the questions, considerations, and conditions in the water and sewer department report >> and also the engineer engineer review letters of April 29th and May 1st. >> Yes, sir. >> Um, and all the comments that were
raised there will be addressed either uh uh you know through any additional testimony required or just working with our engineering department to uh uh take care of their concerns. >> Yes, they will, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay, great. Uh, perfect. >> Um, then, uh, you can call your first witness then. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Next witness. >> My, uh, my next witness is going to be my landscape architect, >> Jason Tranco. Here he is. Why don't you get yourself situated? You can sit here or if you intend to show exhibits, you can stand there. You're going to have to
be sworn in either way. I'll scooch in or you can go around. Okay, >> raise your right hand. You swear the testimony given this matter will be the truth. The whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Please give your full name and put your last name for the record.
>> Jason Tronco, landscape architect. Malo Bower and Carmen. >> Jason, just speak into the microphone if you can. Not a problem. There we go. Thank you. And before you get going, why don't you um give the board a brief overview of your professional
qualifications and licenses, confirming your licenses are in good standing in effect in the state of New Jersey and a couple of towns in which you have been qualified and have testified as an expert in the field of landscape architecture. Thank you. >> Yes. Uh graduated from West Virginia
University in 1998, a licensed landscape architect in the state of New Jersey since 2002. uh appeared in many planning boards, zoning boards throughout the state of New Jersey over the 25 years. Uh my license is current and um like I said,
I'm associate at Molo Power Karman Landscape Architecture. >> Okay, without further ado, Mr. Chairman, I would profer Mr. Trono as an expert in the field of landscape architecture. >> Uh do any of the board members have any questions? Uh any objections? Uh hearing
none, the board accepts uh expert in landscape. Uh much appreciated. The one thing I wanted to note, um this is not in a submission packet, but it is an approval uh an ancillary approval, a local approval that we obtained from Livingston prior to I guess the issue
date is uh July 11th, 2025. This is our tree permit removal application. Um this was approved by Livingston. I'm seeing an issuance date of uh 711 2025. It's not part of an application that the
board grants. I just wanted to make a record of it because it does identify the number of trees that are being removed. The tree uh fee that would be paid um for um trees that we are not uh replanting and um as we get through his
testimony, we may be modifying that, but um just want to make a note of that for the record. >> You want to mark that as as an exhibit? >> I sure can. >> This would be A3, I believe. we're up to. >> I think that's correct. I have a packet of it. I'll um
Hollis, if I may. And just the reason I made mention that is because at the last hearing I had uh told one of the board members that we'd be specifically identifying how many trees we were removing and we're replacing with replantings and the
associated costs uh therewith. Okay, Mr. Tronco, uh why don't we just make sure you're familiar with the plans? You reviewed the landscape architecture plans in connection with this application. Correct? >> Yes. >> And you assisted or oversaw or participated in the drafting of those plans. Correct. >> I did so.
>> And you're qualified to testify thereon. Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. Sir, why don't you take us through the plans that you're showing? And since we just marked the >> So, sorry, Mr. Chairman, can I just note the presence of board member Reber?
Okay, Mr. Reber, well, we we just finished everything good on the application. No. All right. So, uh, Mr. Trono, uh, the floor is yours. We just marked the tree application permit as a three. So, if you're showing the board something
which is not part of the application packet or is otherwise modified, please indicate so and provide the date of the exhibit, a brief description for the board attorney, and then we can ask it to be so. March. >> Perfect. Good evening and thank you. Uh
I will provide an overview of the landscape architectural improvements at the street level. A couple of the exterior amenities on the landscape decks for this application. Um I am displaying a composite rendering on the screen. This is a combination of our L2
street level planting plan and also the um landscape decks for the three amenity spaces on the landscape deck. >> Okay. Mr. Trono, was this exhibit uh or was this document previously submitted or marked into evidence? >> Uh in part, it's a combination, but
let's mark it as an exhibit dated 610 2025. >> Uh Mr. Valerio, maybe we mark it as A4. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Thank you. L2 and which other street? >> Uh L3 and L4 which display the second
and third level amenity decks. >> Okay, take it away, Mr. >> Uh first I'd like to talk through the streetscape uh the street level planting. Um we have provided uh shade trees along South Livingston Avenue. They'll be planted within tree pits and
landscaped underneath them. Uh this uh this is in conjunction with the amenities for the retail along South Livingston Avenue that we have prepared and that's at the bottom of the sheet here. Um in addition to that we're
supplementing the surrounding uh property lines north, souththeast perimeter of the site. Um and we're doing so with shade trees, ornamental trees, uh evergreen trees and shrubs. Um we have provided native uh plant
material to provide this vegetative buffer. Um and some species are gladitzia, juniper and uh amalanker. Uh in addition to those plantings at the buffers we have provided shade trees
adjacent to all parking areas. Um this is also major shade trees. Um and we used elms and gladitzia and liquid ambar in these locations. Um as we have touched on the civil engineer has
prepared a tree removal plan. That plan has been approved by the letter um exhibit A3. Uh just for an oversight of that um 165 trees have been removed on the site. Um based on the calculation in the
ordinance 252 trees are required to be replaced. We have proposed 97 trees and there's a deficit as approved per the letter. Uh with that the landscape plan aims to maximize the planting throughout the
development. Um every possible spot where we can provide uh native drought tolerant um pollinator species we have done that. um you know we're willing to look at areas where you know additional planting can be provided.
Uh in addition to the streetscape we have uh exciting amenities on the landscape decks shown in the middle of the site. Um the first one is a more passive space. Uh this will be seating area um
lounging area, gathering area for for patrons. Uh the next area just above that is another passive area with a movie wall, um outdoor grilling, and then again spaces for gathering and passive recreation. Uh
and the third courtyard is our pool courtyard. Uh this will be sectioned off so there's um four season use in this space. Uh the top portion of the courtyard will be the pool area where in the summertime you'll be able to access
the pool and the lounge area. The bottom portion will be fenced off and also be able to used for be able to be used for four seasons. Um in addition to the the hardscape and and the amenities, we have an uh intensive planting up there. uh hardy
ornamental trees, native plant material um and again pollinator species, shrubs, ornamental grasses and perennials. I forgot to mention on on the streetscape actually that uh we created a central access drive. This is where
all the circulation will come into the site uh provide drop off spaces, spaces for ride sharing, uh deliveries and a smaller parking area. And that that's pretty much the overall unless anybody has any questions.
>> Uh just a couple. We we uh utilize native plantings. Is that correct? >> We sure did. Yes. >> Okay. And uh per the tree removal permit, we do have a deficit of of trees to be replaced and and the deficit will be uh addressed via a contribution to
the Livingston uh tree removal fund. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> I don't have anything else further on direct, Mr. Chairman. Happy to tender the witness over to the board for further questions. >> Go ahead. >> Sorry. So, thank you for your testimony
and I'm glad that you're putting some 90 extra uh trees. >> Uh my question is what is the tallest tree, the replacement trees that you're planting? How tall are those trees going to be or are we, you know, what is the
starting height of the tree that you're planting? >> Sure. Uh, so a lot of the shade trees, they start at 12 to 14 foot height and they're 3 in to 3 and 1/2 inch caliber. Uh, but those are major shade trees. So they'll grow 25 30 plus feet tall.
>> And how many shade trees do we have on this property? >> Uh, let me just grab that here. And what's the height of the evergreens also as you plant? >> Sure. They go in at 6 to 8 foot and then
and again they'll grow to 20 25 ft tall. >> Okay. >> Just bear with me. Thank you. So, the breakdown for trees uh proposed on site, we have 57 major shade trees, uh 21 evergreen trees, and 20 ornamental
trees throughout the uh streetscape um portion of the development. >> That's the new planting. >> Yes. >> In addition, um shrubs, ground covers, ornamental grasses, and perennials. So
the 165 that have been removed, right? That's what you said, right? 165 have been removed. 252 proposed to be planted total. >> Uh uh no, unfortunately it's 165 trees removed, but uh based on the calculations, certain trees of certain sizes need to be replaced at like a 2:1
ratio and then if they're really large, they get replaced at a greater ratio. Uh we are required to put back 252 trees. Um of that, we have planted 97. Thank you. >> Along the uh eastern side, the top of
your drawing there, the darker green, are those existing trees, are any of those existing trees along that boundary going to be retained? >> Uh yes, there's >> so most of the mature trees. >> Yeah, 24 ft of uh existing vegetation is to remain. >> Okay. So
um 165 you're removing or you're planning to remove that does not include the ones you're keeping. So essentially the ones that are removed is are really in the center of the site or towards South Livingston Avenue. >> So the calculation is not exactly
uh 165 is a total removal and only 97 total number of trees to remain. What will what will be the total? How many trees will remain on the site out of 252? >> So 97 new trees will be planted. Uh but there's,
you know, I'm going to have to ballpark it for you, but there's 60 to to probably about 60 trees um remaining throughout the uh the the buffer areas of of the site. Most of the trees within the parking area, they were really not
in very good condition. Uh that's where the primary development is going to be. So a lot of those are are going to be removed. >> Um and there was a good bit of trees there, you know. >> So where I was leading with my question is there is a neighborhood at the back. >> Sure. >> There's a neighborhood on the side. uh
what are the specific plans to create and how thick the plans are to create a separation between during construction post construction when it is it is habited uh the the site is populated occupied and
the neighbors. So what's the plan there? So the plan is to to keep the 24 feet of existing vegetation in place and in addition to that we're supplementing it with parking lot major shade trees along the back the back drive. Uh so
supplementing it with shade trees and then keeping the existing vegetation for that for that width. >> I'm going to further dig into that. So right now if you see the site uh there is not a real sort of green wall meaning a separation between the site and the
residence is not as thick. Are you proposing that with evergreens or new trees that you're planning to plant there is a separation going to be thicker uh sort of better? Is that what the plan is? I'm trying to visualize.
>> Yeah. Currently it's an existing stand of um taller trees. So there are a lot of shade trees and you know they're limbmed up. They're tall so there's a little bit of underneath openness. Um we're going to plant new shade trees which will supplement that. Um
it'll open up a little bit. Light and air additional species in the um forest edge will kind of come in and and help to kind of reassure that buffer or shore up that buffer. >> Thank you. Is there
>> Is there fencing around the property now? >> Yes. >> What's the condition of that fencing? I I heard it's a little tired. >> A little tired is is is an accurate description. >> So, I assume that's going to be replaced.
>> Yes, the the fence is proposed uh to be replaced. And uh just to kind of dig into the question uh Mr. what Tonnie raised, we are removing the trees uh as part of the development which are in the
central part of of this proposed community. We are supplementing and for the large part, Jason, correct me if I'm wrong, maintaining the existing mature trees in the rear. I'm going to call it plan rear and plan right of this
community. And then we're supplementing it. Jason, the the bright green, those are new plantings along the rear, correct? >> Yes, those are all new. >> Okay, those are all new. The darker green, those are existing trees, correct? >> Correct. >> Okay, so we are supplementing the
existing buffer which is there today. There will be a new fence installed along the rear. >> Uh, off the top of my head, I can't recall if it's chain link or board on board. >> Vinyl. It's a vinyl fence. Is that the only Is that the only place that there's
a fence in the rear? >> Northern border. >> I I think it's the northern border. >> Yeah. So, it probably be good to replace anything that looks tired. >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. We're That's exactly correct. Okay. >> Um it it's the applicant's desire to
make the site to improve the site both just from a use perspective, but also to make it more visually appealing and to create a more attractive buffer both for the project and for the neighbors. Do you mind? >> Yeah, I was gonna ask. >> Great. Uh, just two questions. Uh, with
respect to the landscaping, I'm assuming that you're going to offer a guarantee for the landscaping. Uh, >> yes. >> Great. >> We will. >> And then with respect particularly to the plan rear properties and the property to the right. Um, I understand the landscaping plan. Uh, I was hoping
that maybe uh post or towards the end of construction, you would agree to a walkth through uh to see how well the landscaping is functioning or whether there should be some supplemental plantings. >> Yes, we would. When do you think the
appropriate time would be for that? >> Uh >> 6 months post installation. >> Yeah, let's uh let's work on that. But >> we we can work that out with the board professionals, but that that's certainly uh something the applicant would stipulate too. And uh we would also of
course offer the uh traditional 2-year maintenance guarantee. Okay. >> Post installation of the uh of the landscaping buffer. >> Let me just mark that down. >> Just one couple of questions now coming into the courtyard now. Uh so we talked about the fencing. Um there is one
courtyard section is completely locked. um you know surrounded by by construction or uh the occupation, a residence or hallways or what have you. The axis between that uh outside the light. Can you please
help us uh visualize that a little bit more in terms of what kind of vegetation we're looking at here? Um also on the right behind that that's accessible I would imagine to the to the community at large you know in that at that site. Right.
>> Sure. Those are both uh located on the second floor. Um access from the corridor on the on the bottommost courtyard and then also by I think a great room or a activity room at the bottom of the courtyard. Oh sorry
this courtyard here is on the third floor. Second floor. second. These are on two different Sorry about that. So, it'll be built up planting. Um, we use a lot of perennials and and shrubs
in those areas. They become very lush um gardens. Uh, we'll have uh shade trees or smaller trees and planters. So, we really do an intensive um planting in the courtyards um to make them really really nice u you know lush environments.
>> Yeah. >> Um just a couple particularly up at the two corners, the top two corners, you have shade trees on each corner. Looks a little tight as far as turning radius for trucks, garbage trucks, fire trucks. Do you have any concerns there?
>> Um I think we have a variety that's limbmed up or or vaseshaped. Um, I think all the turning radius will work. Uh, we'll make sure those trees are limbmed up seven feet. >> Okay. >> And or choose a variety that's V-shaped.
>> Okay. >> And finally coming up to towards the South Livingston Avenue. Um, so I think throughout I mean if we see the streetscape leading up to the 45 South Livingston Avenue, we do have uh sort of
not so tall greenery u moving into towards the site. Uh if you drive through if you drive along on South Livingston Avenue um what is the outlook is going to be? Are you are we thinking here taller trees similar heights? what
kind of trees and what kind of vegetation greenery we are expected to see there. >> Sure. So we have the street trees which will give that presence to the streetscape but uh set back from that we have the retail cafe areas which are developed with smaller plant material
tucked up against the building and then in addition to that to provide additional separation. Um, we have freestanding planters that'll have seasonal interest, have annuals in them, sometimes ornamental grasses just to give that sense of space, create that
room for for that retail tenant. But for the most part, and I and I think it's an improvement over what's there now. Right now, there's too much shrubs and it blocks all the sidewalk and can't even get past it. So, it's mostly just trees and plenty of open sidewalk. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yes.
>> Yes. And similarly in the driveway side of it as we go enter um to the site are they similar heights? Uh one of the concerns and I I saw in the traffic study I know it's this is this is not the topic there but would be for
vehicles to turn emergency vehicles to come pass. Uh what are the thought processes there? >> Sure. Um so the entry court or the parking court um we really provided um extensive widths to some of the drives,
drop off areas, parking spaces, uh the turn turnaround areas like 36 feet wide so there's plenty of room for pulling off or or someone getting a delivery of food and then also have plenty of room for somebody to kind of traverse around
them. Uh the plantings are low uh with it in addition to the shade trees or the ornamental trees that we have provided through there. Uh in addition there's a nice lobby courtyard, a nice space out there for you know people to gather once
again wait for a ride share or you know just get outside. >> I think the question was geared more towards the driveway on the left. >> Okay. as people are exiting the site.
>> Okay. Um again, we keep you know we >> over over to the left >> far left far left >> plan left >> there. >> There we go. >> Sure. >> So you know we developed these landscape plans with a lot of that you know in
mind. Uh many ordinances are written in regard to sight triangles and everything and most plants need to be below 30 inches or limbmed up to seven feet. So um that'll definitely be accomplished here. >> Um on your plan the which circles
indicate the evergreens? >> They have a crosshatch on the center. So it's bunched through this area. >> Great. And what about along the rear for that buffer? >> The rear buffer is uh the shade trees, the bigger circles.
>> Is there room to add evergreens there? So, there's a buffer year round. >> So, I think the walkthrough was a great idea. Our concern there is when there's the ca existing canopy, um there aren't too many shade loving evergreen trees to
plant underneath that existing shade tree canopy. hemlocks could sometimes be planted, but um it's more of planting the edge of the existing um woodland and supplementing it with the shade trees.
>> Thank you. >> I just wanted to go back to the to to the front of the building again. Um >> and I know we we certainly talked about at the track meeting, I think we talked about last time is, you know, safe safety for the um outdoor diners. >> Definitely. um any of the landscaping
and I don't know where we've kind of settled on on that. Uh does landscaping come into play for providing any type of you know um safety there? >> Planters in little ballers >> strategically placing >> sure and I think it's you know it's
multi-layered. Um when you're going down South Livingston Avenue you have that repetition of of street trees which provide the first kind of level of of protection. a wide sidewalk and then we'll have freestanding planters, okay, with the vegetation. Um,
and the planting kind of juts out from the building to create those little rooms. So, that also provides some shelter to the kind of side of the the cafe areas. >> Thank you. Any other questions from the board, from
our professionals? Any questions from the public um for this for the landscape architect? >> Come on up. >> Welcome. Uh name and address, please. >> Anna Scalora Sherbrook Parkway 42. >> I'm going to just go there for a second.
>> Sure. >> You need spelling. >> Yeah. answer >> just so you're heard. So you're right. >> And if you just spell your last name, please. >> S C A L O R A. >> Thank you.
>> Okay. So, uh I am a I'm a neighbor. I live there in the corner. Um questions for you about the fencing. The fencing that's there is very beat up. The fencing is on the property line. So, it's a wooden fence on the property line. Then there's the buffer. Then
there's the parking lot. So, what's the plan for the fence? Where is it going to go? Is it going to replace the the fence that's currently there on our property line? >> Yeah, I think there there'll be a Well, there will be a new fence. And I guess you can uh testify as
>> you said it's vinyl. What's the color? What's the height? >> Correct. And so my understanding is and ask our well actually if you know Jason but my understanding is we're replacing the fence with a vinyl board with you
know I I don't want to supposition here. So let me just ask one of my witnesses to answer this question if you know. I mean, typically it's a six foot high pinal fence, but >> solid
>> sit tight. Yeah. >> What I'm trying to understand is if you >> there's the properties, then the fence, and then there's the buffer. >> Is there is there going to be a barrier from the parking lot >> to the fence? Because currently the
buffer that's there is really attempt. I mean, obviously because of the the the the situation that we're in right now with the current developer, >> it's a real problem for me, especially because there's water issues, it's dead trees, like dead whatever. So, I just
want to understand what that plan is and if there's fencing, who's going to maintain that? >> Because there's no maintenance right now. And it it's it's affects my property. mosquitoes, uh, water issues, uh, things that are falling, trees that are falling, leaves, like nobody maintains that.
>> No, understood. So, the the current condition is there's a fence and then some plantings. Is that it? >> It's I have a picture of it. I mean, you know, it's >> the parking lot of the current property, correct? Then there's this buffer of trees. >> Then there's this beat up old fence.
>> Okay. >> And behind that fence is my lawn. >> It's right there. So, where is this new fence going to go? Is it going to replace the fence that's there and then leave this, you know, whatever buffer you plan on putting there? >> So, I'll tell you.
>> And then how does that separate from the parking lot? Is that going to just be an open lot and then a fence and then my property? >> Sure. So Jason, my understanding is it's the parking lot, it's the buffer plantings, it's the fence, and then on
your side, it's your property. >> Okay. >> So everything on the developer side, including the fence, will be maintained by the developer. We're actually going to post a bond, a maintenance bond to ensure that it's and and the developer will obviously maintain that outside of that bond, but we will post a bond to
maintain those plantings as a matter of law. So, it will be much better maintained than it is right now. And I'll let my landscape architect speak to that. Go ahead. >> That's exactly right. So, the new vinyl 6 foot high fence will be at the property line.
>> Okay. >> Um to our side of of the property will be the buffer, right? >> Approximately 24 ft wide, 28 feet to the curb line. um maintained by by the applicant
>> to the to the point of uh that it's been neglected and and I think uh the resident referenced there were dead trees and stuff. Would you uh be amendable to a condition that in addition to leaving the existing strand, you'll clean out any dead trees, debris? I'm sure you don't want it to look nice for your residents anyway, but
>> yes, we will. Okay. >> We would stipulate to that. >> And and is there a water plan there? Like a to look at the water? You've been there, right? you look at what's happening back there >> because it leaks into my lawn. >> Yes, I have been there. Uh and we did provide the the drainage plan.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Sure. So, there's a inlet being installed at the corner and then there's also filter systems which uh collect water at the back of the parking area at the corner. So that'll improve the uh
drainage situation. >> So we're collecting the water on the rear of the site. We're putting it into a filter system and piping it out to the collection system. So that should assist with the condition that exists there today. Uh which property is yours? Are
you um which lot are you on the map there? 19. You're right there. So there is going to be if you see that little >> there's going to be an inlet installed right there. question. >> So this uh I would underscore uh to the resident's point the debt tree and I
think the town manager mentioned that as well. Miss F also mentioned that I think the importance of having the the ever greens in that area >> to create that separation is is key. Uh obviously clean up the dead tree and all of that but you know this creates a
better separation uh for the residents. I think that goes miles. Yes, it does. >> So, I would I would imagine you know having that tour uh and ensuring that that is enough sort of separation, enough green wall even during the fall
and winter times. You know, you do have that separation. I would be uh I would stress that that we we do that. >> Absolutely. And and and the applicant is is Wow, my voice just got much louder there. Whoa. >> Into the microphone. >> The Oh my word.
>> Voice from above. Uh the applicant is very happy to stipulate to that post uh installation uh inspection and we're also happy to stipulate to if additional plantings can be established there can thrive. We're also happy to stipulate to
install them uh post approval as well. We want to make this place, you know, something that fits in the community, something that uh reduces impacts to the neighbors, something which improves the area. So we're happy to do that. On that note, is there a possibility
that the evergreens in that area, the back uh line be taller than the other? Because 6 to 8 ft, it it's not too tall. I I got six footers planted in my yard and I'm looking at it. Doesn't look 6 feet tall
to me till I go and stand next to it. And yes, it is. So, the the evergreens in the back, can they be taller? Can they be 8 to 10 feet? Can the installed evergreens be taller on installation is the question, right? >> On the back property line. Yes, the rear line. Yes, >> property line. >> They definitely can.
>> Or could they be put on some type of berm to raise them up? >> Uh burm gets difficult because you'll be disturbing the uh existing root root zone of the trees. >> Um what I kind of foresee here is a combination of shrubs, evergreen shrubs,
and if there are any openings, there would be evergreen trees. So, we could definitely look at that. I'm gonna stipulate I'm I'm sorry to interrupt you Jason. We're going to stipulate right now we will install taller evergreens along the rear eight to 10 feet at planting >> and also on the other side
>> on the residential sides. >> That's the rear. That's that's what I was talking about. Yes. Correct. >> And wrapping around to the right plan right Jonathan. >> Yes. 8 to 10 feet around the rear. Plan rear and plan right. Correct. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Okay. I'm going to mark that as a stipulation. Just to be clear, we're talking about the evergreens that are depicted on the plan because I did understand along the eastern border there because of the existing over, you know, existing canopy of trees that evergreens may not be able to thrive there. So,
>> we're going to have to do the best we can to install them in the places that we can. The applicants willing to install, you know, essentially what we're talking about. We're we're paying, you know, more money to install the taller trees. Um, we're willing to do that provided that it works within the landscaping and that the trees are
actually going to thrive and survive. So, yes, we can do that. >> What's What's the uh grading difference from the parking lot to the property lines in that corner? Does it fall off
or I don't recall. So I think the overall grading is from left to right on the site or yeah sorry from right to left on the site. So it kind of goes par um you know parallel
with um the back property line. >> I imagine it follows the drainage system. So it probably slopes from plan >> left >> left to plan right where we have the >> infiltration systems designed >> which means if the trees are planted
to the left of the property line a 6ft tree might look like an 8ft tree. >> That's correct. >> Or a 14ft tree might look like an eight or an eight or a 10. Yes. There any
>> any other questions from the board from our professionals or from the public? Please come on up. >> Hi Rosha. D O R O S H U K Sher Parkway. >> Did you get that? >> D O R S >> D O R O SH UK. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. I'm going to defer to your landscape architect about um whether this is possible. Uh the lime green trees on the eastern uh exposure there that are new plantings
and you said those are deciduous um shade trees. >> Yes. um at that location, depending on how tall this building is, which I think is four or five stories, uh how much sunlight are they going to be exposed to? And if you replace those
with tall evergreens like a Norway spruce or something like that, would that species get enough light? >> Yeah, I think the solar orientation for for that area, it's from the west, you're getting a lot of the sun. south
southwest from the bottom right corner. Um shade trees will do great there. I think evergreens um barring any canopy that's that's going to shade them out, uh they'll survive as well. >> Okay. Because I was I was just thinking
if those were replaced with evergreens, uh that would give us a full year buffer. >> Sure. And the only other question I had was the seconds story amenities on this
building where the pool is etc. If if there were tall pine trees or evergreens, that would provide some more blockage um because people in where you live and on Cheroke Parkway,
your second story window, people are going to be looking in your second story window from the pool and and vice versa. I was just wondering if we could do something about creating a year round blockage and
And then and p evergreens tend to block a lot of noise too. >> Sure. >> Something to think about. >> Thank you. >> Um any other questions from members of the public?
Uh seeing none. I think that's it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Jason. Thank you, man, for the public for the uh insightful comments and the importance of the plan that we just went through. >> Okay, my next witness is
Corey Chase, our traffic consultant. Actually, >> you raise your right hand. I'll swear you in. You swear the testimony of this matter be the truth. The whole truth, nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Please give us your full name and spell your last name, please. >> Certainly. It's Corey, C O R E Y. Last
name is Chase, C H A S E, principal with the firm Dynamic Traffic, located at 245 Main Street in Chester, New Jersey. >> Thank you, Mr. Valerio. Uh, Mr. Chase, welcome to the meeting. Thank you for joining us here tonight. Please provide the board with a brief overview of your
professional qualifications and licenses, confirming your licenses are in good standing in effect in the state of New Jersey and give us a handful of examples upon which boards you have been qualified as an expert in the field of traffic consulting.
>> Certainly. Again, good evening everyone. Corey Chase with Dynamic Traffic, licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey. Licenses currently in good standing. uh also licensed in five other states. Uh bachelor's degree in civil engineering from the University of Massachusetts and I've been qualified as an expert before over 130
municipalities throughout the state including the township on several prior occasions. >> Okay, settle down there. That was pretty good. Uh Mr. Chairman, >> any any questions for members of the board? >> Any objection? Uh thank you admitted as an expert. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um Mr. Chase,
let me just qualify you with with respect to the plans. Uh you reviewed the plans and applications that were submitted in connection with this application. Correct? >> Yes. >> And you are prepared to testify on the traffic report that you submitted and the supplemental report that you submitted in connection with this application. Correct? >> I am.
>> Why don't you walk us through that? And I would just want to acknowledge we did receive the report of Mr. Klene. I believe it was dated yesterday and uh also his original report of July or June. And we're going to testify and provide responses on that this evening.
So, take it away. And uh again, same thing as our prior witness. If you get an exhibit that has not been already marked, please just identify it as such and we'll have it marked in the record. >> Certainly. And I'm going to be referring to uh the exhibit that was just marked A4, which is on the screen before you
this evening. Uh it's the architectural rendering that the landscape architect just testified to. And just to recap for the board, just briefly, testimony that was previously provided by the site engineer. Again, the site's located along South Livingston Avenue. currently occupied by two commercial buildings. Uh
the northern commercial building has a second story which contains some office and personal services space as well. Um we are proposing to provide three access points along South Livingston Avenue. The southernmost access point will be full access located directly adjacent to the southern building facade. Uh the
central access point is bifurcated uh by the landscape island and again as was described by the landscape architect provides access to some ankle parking in front of the retail space as well as provides access to that drop off area located directly in front of the residential portion of the development.
Uh it's also important to note that between the southern access drive and that central bifurcated access drive, there is an existing cross access aisle that runs north south. that actually runs beneath the building and that provides one of the primary access points to the parking garage for the
residential tenants of the facility. Uh the northern access drive is located largely in the same position that the existing driveway is today. Again, that'll provide full access to South Livingston Avenue at the northeastern corner of the proposed residential building. There's also a secondary
access point to to the parking garage again which is located in the northeast corner of that building. as >> just orient me for a second. I apologize. Is South Livingston Avenue is that a local street or is that a county road? >> That is a county road. >> Okay. So, as any condition of approval,
should the board act favorably on this application? Um, we already have submitted the county, but as the board is well aware, the county does not act on local applications until the board takes action. So, that would also be should the board act favorably a condition of approval. Um, but you have submitted these plans to the county,
correct? >> That's correct. >> Okay. Very good. Take it away. >> As Mr. Orth mentioned, we did prepare a traffic impact study. Uh we did have the ability to revise that traffic impact study. It was last revised June 9th, 2025. Uh and that was in response to the initial comments that Mr. Klein issued
in his May 1st, 2025 letter. Uh we did receive the updated letter from Mr. Klein, which was dated August 4th, 2025. I'd like to just provide the board a summary of what went into the traffic impact study. Um, as you've heard me testify to previously, we prepare a pre and postdevelopment analysis along the
adjacent roadway network to determine if there are any substantial traffic impacts. Sorry, am I speaking too fast? I'll slow down. You can just give me a glare if if I speed up. >> Take take your time. It's just us tonight. Take your time. >> Certainly. So, we we provide a pre and postdevelopment traffic impact
assessment on the adjacent roadway network. Um, given that this is a mixeduse development, we'll have a residential component as well as a commercial component. We focused on all three of the critical peak hours. We focused on the weekday morning and evening peak commuter hours. We also focused on the Saturday midday which has
an overlap of residential activity as well as commercial activity. Uh we did perform traffic counts at three locations along the adjacent roadway to the north at the signalized intersection with Route 10 and then the two existing side streets uh Oak Street and Ardan
Road uh which are in in close proximity to the city. >> And when did we perform these traffic counts? uh they were performed in April of 2024. Um and as Mr. Klein recommended as part of his initial review, uh we grew those traffic volumes by the NJ DOT
published growth rate to represent 2025 existing volumes. So although the counts were done in April of 2024, uh they did have a growth rate applied to them to represent 2025 existing conditions which served as the baseline of our analysis. >> And so school was in in school was in
>> that's correct >> at the time you took the counts. And we also took into account the uh adjacent or the nearby developments of which we were informed of by the board in connection with the preparation of this report. Correct. >> Yeah, that's correct. And those are outlined on page seven of our report.
There are five developments that were identified in the area which could potentially have an impact on the traffic conditions. So those were also factored into the background. >> You did mention when you did it when school was uh open, but you didn't do it at a time when school was letting out, correct? you know, when when the high
school lets out, >> we did not. >> Okay. >> So, there are five developments that were identified as area developments that we needed to account for through consultation with staff. Those are all listed on page seven of our report. The additional traffic associated with each of those developments was again added
into the background traffic. So our analysis provides a comprehensive assessment of the impact of not just this development on the adjacent roadway network but any additional traffic which may may be generated by those five developments that's not currently on the roadway network. Um as traffic engineers
always do to project the traffic that's generated by this development. We looked at data published by the Institute of Transportation Engineers. That's both the national and state standard for developing traffic projections for a wide variety of uses. Um those results are summarized on table four which is
located on page nine of our report. Uh we provided traffic projections for each of the three components. The the mid-rise residential buildings so the 220 residential units the six town homes as well as the approximately 19,000 square ft of commercial space. Uh those
each individual uses are all broken out separately in table 4 and then we provide a comprehensive total of the additional traffic that's generated by the development. Overall, uh there is going to be some internal interaction. That's one of the benefits of mixeduse developments. You're going to have residents of that building which will
utilize the commercial space upon occupancy. So, there is a minor reduction in traffic associated by that interaction by the existing residential tenants of the building utilizing that existing commercial space which will be an added amenity to those tenants. U what one thing that's really important
to note is I mentioned this the property is occupied by two commercial buildings. Uh, one is again has some office and personal service space above it. Um, so those buildings could have traffic generation and did have traffic generation at some point. You know, the Walgreens was there previously, the Bottle King, the Dunkin Donuts, uh,
things of that nature, all generating traffic. Uh, to be conservative, we assume this was new over vacant land. So, we didn't take any credit for the existing either reoccupancy or reteny of those potential commercial buildings. So again, an extremely conservative position on our approach to this analysis, assuming that it was all new
over vacant land. If you ran it trip generation projections for that commercial space and compared it to the development that we're proposing before you this evening, the trip generation is essentially a wash. It would be equal to what that commercial space would have generated from an IT trip generation
perspective compared to what the mixeduse development is going to generate. But again, to be extremely conservative, we didn't take any credit for that use. We assume this is all new over vacant land and we just added all of our additional traffic that's summarized on table four onto the adjacent roadway network.
>> So Corey, if I can interrupt just for a second, let's just just talk about a little bit what we did here. So we took the existing site as developed, correct? And that site has a certain amount of traffic generated to it from it as a as a use. Correct.
>> That's correct. And then we said, "Okay, we have a new proposal coming in and this proposal generates x amount of traffic and trips." Correct. >> Correct. >> And then we said, "Okay, we also understand there's other developments in the area, either contemplated or
existing." Correct. >> Correct. >> And we projected as if this development, as you just said, was something new, something that took over a vacant piece of property. Correct. >> That's correct. And so you projected
your traffic uh as if this site were vacant. >> Correct. >> As if there was nothing there. There was no traffic going in there at all. Correct. >> That's correct. >> And so the findings that you're presenting uh take no account for all the existing traffic going in and out of the site as it exists today. Correct.
>> That's correct. >> And so at some point you're going to come back to me and say when we compare this to what is there today, uh you're going to give me that finding. Correct. And I believe I just mentioned that it's essentially equal to what was previously there. And again, obviously, we understand today that the commercial
buildings are largely vacant. You know, there's a few commercial tenants remaining, but again, those could have been retented at some point. They could have been repurposed as new commercial facilities. So, >> and and the last thing, the IT manual that you utilize, that is kind of the um
the baseline document for your area, the traffic consulting area, right? The IT manual. >> It is. Yes. >> Okay. And that's the that's the the ball work. That's what you utilize. That's what every traffic engineer utilizes to make their projections. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Okay, great. Go ahead.
>> As I mentioned, we performed a pre and postdevelopment analysis. Those results are summarized on table five, which is located on page 10 of our report. They provide an analysis of the adjacent roadway network under the future conditions with those five area developments that I mentioned, as well
as two additional years of background growth. Given that it's 2025, we assume completion of this project in 2027. So, we included two supplemental years of additional background growth plus those five projects that I mentioned. That serves as what we term the no build
condition as our baseline to what we'll compare the operations of the adjacent roadway network with the additional traffic generated by this proposed development. Again, looking at all three peak hours, the weekday morning, the weekday evening, and the Saturday midday peak hour. Um, as I know the chairman
mentioned, you know, the the u dismissal of high school, uh, we we're really focusing on when this uh the development is going to peak, and that's going to be during the commuter hours. You have residential tenants that are going to exit the facility in the morning. They're going to return home in the evening. That's one of the benefits of
switching from a primarily commercial development to a residential development. You don't have a lot of the high turnover trips that result all throughout the day. Uh traditionally, you know, residential tenants will exit that facility in the morning and then again return home in the evening. Uh certainly there may be some people that work from home but their activity is
somewhat limited during the mid portion of the day. So you don't see that constant stream of traffic in and out of a residential development as you do a commercial development. So certainly again a benefit to going from a strictly commercial uh to a mixeduse development which consists of primarily residential
and then some neighborhood commercial tenants. As I mentioned again, those level of service results, table five, which is located on page 10 of our report, we do that pre and post development analysis to see if there are any degradations in the overall operational conditions. Um, you know,
again, we focus on the intersection of Route 10 and Livingston Avenue, South Livingston Avenue and Oak Street and South Livingston Avenue and Ardan Road and then the three site access points along South Livingston Avenue. uh focusing on the adjacent signalized intersection with Route 10. Looking at the overall operations of the
intersection, uh there were no degradations in the overall operational levels of service. Uh there was a a maximum of a 1 second increase or two-c increase in the overall intersection delay when you addition additional traffic onto the adjacent intersection operations. And again, as I mentioned,
very conservative in nature and that we took no credit for the existing traffic generated by the commercial facilities which occupied the site today. We also took a look at the unsalized intersections, both the site driveway intersections as well as Ardan Road and Oak Street. Um, those intersection
operations became the subject of some comments that were issued by Mr. Klein uh requesting some additional analysis to specifically how do those intersection operations truly function uh given the queuing that occurs from the adjacent intersection with Route 10. uh we took the opportunity between the initial traffic study and the
resubmitted traffic study to go out and do an additional analysis which we call a gap study which we actually will monitor the existing gaps in traffic that are created by the adjacent traffic signals uh with the traffic signal at Cedar Street and the traffic signal at Route 10. Uh what you actually have is
you'll have traffic that'll platoon that creates gaps in traffic which are not recognized unfortunately by the unsalized analysis that we prepare. Uh that analysis assumes that all vehicles arrive at a random rate. So it has twofold. It captures the platooning in traffic which occurs. It also captures
the impact of the queue uh which will exist from route 10 as you head northbound along South Livingston Avenue towards Route 10. Uh obviously during certain times of the day that queue will extend back towards this subject property. So the inclusion of that gap state in our analysis that allows us to actually assess how many vehicles could
process both into and out of these driveways and adjacent side streets uh with the existing prevailing conditions on the adjacent roadway network. um that those results are summarized on tables six and seven. They're located on page 12 and 13 of our report. Um and what we
do is we we look at the total available gaps. We looked at both the left turn in and the right turn out. Those obviously require less of a gap in traffic uh because it's an easier move to make. And then separately, we also looked at the left turn exiting movement which requires a longer gap because you're
crossing two lanes of traffic along the northbound South Livingston Avenue. just a as you're we have a couple of ingress and ingress we have a couple of ingress and ingress points on the property as you testify feel free to um point it out you know which um portion of the
property you're you're speaking to. Thank you. >> Certainly. So again, as I mentioned, we took a look at those existing available gaps and traffic and then looked at the gap demand, which is the amount of vehicles that are going to be utilizing that gap, those gaps potentially upon redevelopment of the subject property
should the board act favorably. And what we look for in this analysis, we want to see multiples of available gaps. If it was a oneto one ratio, you run into the situation where you could say as a board member or Mr. Client could say, well then that car needs to arrive at that exact time to have that gap available or
they have the chance of missing it. Uh when you have multiples of available gaps, that increases the likelihood that as a vehicle approaches waiting to turn left out that there will be an available gap in traffic to accommodate them to make that movement. And that's what you can see really in summarized in table
six and table seven. If you look at the total vehicle gaps available uh you know those represent multiples of the gap demand which is located just below that. Um, so in my professional opinion, based on the results of the gap study, there will be sufficient gaps in traffic created by the platooning of traffic as
a result of those two adjacent signalized intersections, even with consideration of the vehicle queuing from the adjacent signalized intersection route 10 to accommodate both those left turn ingress and left turn ingress movements from those site driveways. >> I thought Mr. Or was going to ask me
another question, so he had that look on his face. >> I had the look on my face. >> You did. No, I'm I'm I'm okay on on direct. Um >> just to go through uh parking really quickly and overall site access and circulation. Uh we worked with a site engineer on the overall site access and
circulation. Uh there are three loading zones proposed on site. Uh there is one located directly adjacent to the existing commercial building, the southern building facade. Uh which provides a combination of both loading uh and refuge pickup. The refuge pickup will be scheduled through a private
hauler. Uh it's typically two times a week. That's all done at off- peak hours to not have any impact on the loading operations. There's also another loading zone again on the southern building facade located on the southeast corner of the subject property. Uh that will also be used for movement activities
which are all scheduled through building management. Those again are all scheduled to occur outside of typical peak hours, but they are all scheduled through building management. So you don't run the risk of two people trying to move in or out at the same time. The management will schedule all those moves accordingly. And there is a third
loading zone which is located along the northern building facade. Again, that shares uh with refues which again will be done through a private hauler to ensure that there's no overlap. That'll also be utilized as the delivery area for the commercial portion of the building which is again located along
South Livingston Avenue. Um as the landscape architect did just mention, we do provide that circular uh access drive along the central portion that bifurcated driveway. That driveway was purposely designed at a 36 ft width so you could accommodate it's again a
one-way counterclockwise vehicular circulation uh from South Livingston Avenue back out to South Livingston Avenue. Given that we're providing 30 36 feet in width, there is s uh enough width there to accommodate parked vehicles located directly adjacent to that circular portion of the development
either for ride share, Uber Eats, Amazon deliveries, UPS deliveries, things of that nature, and still allow a passenger vehicle to pass to the inside and and recirculate that aisle. Um they do also have the opportunity as they come in from the site if they're making a left or right in from South Livingston Avenue
in that central driveway as I previously mentioned there is that north south cross cross access aisle which runs beneath the building which does provide cross access to the overall parking area which wraps the southern eastern and northern building facade. So there is
sufficient circulation area to accommodate the the refues the emergency vehicles as well as the anticipated delivery vehicles for this property. I know that was mentioned earlier the the southeastern and the northeastern corners of the property and relative to those trees uh the landscape architect mentioned that they those trees would be
li limmed up to 7 feet in height uh to ensure that there's adequate maneuvering area beneath those trees for both passenger vehicles as well as any vehicles circulating that area uh refu. >> So let's take a pause for a minute. I think I want to note um this community
will have a 247 on-site manager who will coordinate moveins and move outs. So tenant move in move out will be coordinated through the building operator and they can be addressed um at off peak hours. So I want to kind of
break it down a little bit talking about move in and move out. This always comes up. I'm sure the board is going to ask retail loading. Let's just go through it one more time. Bottom right hand corner. Correct. >> Yeah, that's correct. As I mentioned, there's two loading spaces. Uh, it's currently being circled by the cursor.
So, it's on the southern building facade, the loading zone closest to South Livingston Avenue. >> So, they have their dedicated space there. >> They do. It also there's a it's also doubles as a refuge area. So, there will be retail loading of both refues. >> So, trash can move in and out of there as well. >> Correct.
>> Okay. So, tenant move in, move out. Uh, moving vehicles, where are they going to be? They're going to be located again southern building facade, the eastern most loading area. There is a specific and the architect will touch on this as he goes through the building layout, but there is a move in door directly adjacent to that loading zone to
accommodate tenant movein and activities. >> Now, um drop off of just people getting dropped off by Uber or food delivery vehicles. Where is that going to take place? >> Those are all going to occur at that central access, the bifurcated access aisle, uh right against that circular portion of the development right in
front of the main lobby. >> Okay. And again, we have 36 ft of space there for vehicles to pull off and drop off either food or passengers. Correct. >> That's correct. And we also, as you mentioned, and I forgot to note this in my direct testimony, we do have on-site
management 24 hours. So, they will be observing these activities. You know, the last thing that we want is for this to become an extended parking area where people are parking their vehicles and doing other activities. So that will be monitored to ensure that it is truly just utilized as a pickup drop off zone. >> All right. And just kind of as a
reference, we have 36 ft there. RSIS is 24 ft. Correct. >> That's correct. >> For for a um a boulevard type entrance there. >> And that's for two-way traffic. That's for two-way traffic. >> This is just one way to again in a counterclockwise. >> So we have plenty of space for a car
drop off vehicle to pull to the side and for vehicles to get around it. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. Now uh go to the left there. There was another um loading area to the plan left over there. Now um talk about that for a minute there. >> So again that's another secondary point
of for refuge collection as well as loading for the commercial uh tenants. >> Okay. So the building is uh benefited by distinct and wide and available loading and
unloading areas as for trash or deliveries for tenants. Correct. >> That is correct. >> Okay. Go ahead. Do you have did you have anything? >> Yeah. Just further just to touch quickly on parking. Um we are compliant with the parking requirements for the
redevelopment plan. A total of 481 spaces are required for both the residential and retail portions of the development. We do have 495 spaces proposed on site. Uh we are also compliant with the electrical vehicle charging station um spaces. Those are in
compliance with state regulations. Uh important to note that all the residential spaces will be assigned. So the tenants will have an assigned space to them whether it be a surface space or in the garage. Garage access will all be gated. Uh tenants will have a system similar to easyyp pass where it re it's
mounted in the windshield of their car as they approach the garage door will automatically go up. Uh it's important to note that there will be some surface visitor spaces but there will also be visitor spaces within the garage that operates through what they term a butterfly system. It operates through an intercom where they can either uh page
the tenant that they are going to visit and they have the ability to open the garage door through an app and let them in or page building management. They're allowed to open the garage door and let them in. internal to the garage, they'll be assigned visitor spaces. And again, as I mentioned, the rest of the spaces will be assigned to residential tenants.
Um, so all the tenants within the building will have a specific space so they'll know where they're going, whether it's a surface space, which garage entrance best um suits them to enter the facility. >> So So in your opinion, the project as
proposed has safe ingress and egress points. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Adequate loading and unloading areas. Correct. >> That is correct. Adequate tenant parking areas. Correct. >> That is correct. >> Adequate spaces to park for the visitors to the site. Correct. >> That is correct.
>> Adequate spaces for retail uh to park as well. >> That is correct. >> Okay. Is there anything else you want to tell the board on direct here? >> That's all I have for direct. I tried to work in my responses to as many of Mr. Klein's comments as I could through my direct testimony, but I'd be happy to answer any questions that the board or
Mr. Klein may have. >> Okay, that's all I had for this witness on direct. Mr. Chairman, I tender him over to you, the board, and the public. >> I go to Mr. Klein in one second, but also the sides of the parking stalls are all compliant with the redevelopment plan as well. >> They are. They're 9 by8, which complies with the redevelopment plan.
>> Thank you. >> Um, Mr. Klein, >> good evening, Mr. Chase. Thank you for your testimony. It was very thorough. Um, I want to talk a little bit about the bifurcated driveway, the drop off
area. If a customer, a retail customer comes in, they pull around the loop and they start heading for the angled spaces and all the angled spaces are full, is there any direction to that customer to tell them how to get back to the site to find additional parking? So, there will
be and that's a great question, Mr. Klein. The there will be spots on site which are designated for retail patrons. Those are going to be located closest to the South Livingston Avenue frontage. Those spaces all within that center access aisle will be design designated
towards commercial patrons. Uh you do have the ability once you enter the site whether you turn left or right in from South Livingston Avenue. Uh you will have a clear line of sight as you traverse in an easterly direction to observe if those spaces are all full and then as I mentioned there is that north south uh crossaxis aisle which leads to
more parking to serve those commercial tenants. So, uh, and I apologize for not including that in my direct, but given the visibility of that area, I don't think you'll be in a situation where you're, uh, having patrons that'll circulate that area and then have to recirculate through South Livingston Avenue to find additional parking.
>> Right. That was my concern to have to make a left out and a quick left back in would work. So, even if there was a sign that said make a right turn and go around the back of the property, it would be better. But like you said, as long as there's the landscaping doesn't block my view as I'm coming in to see
that the angled spaces are full or empty, then that's fine. >> And and we would also uh stipulate, Mr. Klein, to install on-site directional signage for parkers um traversing the site in appropriate
locations as deemed uh appropriate by the board professionals. >> Okay, good. Thank you. Um, can you talk a little bit about the queueing on South Livingston Avenue and how that might impact any of the driveways? What did
you observe how long the cues got, how long they stayed there when they cleared out? Was there any visibility issues as far as coming out of that driveway to look to your right to be able to make a left turn? Things like that. >> Yeah, certainly. And that was really the the primary focus of doing that
additional gap analysis um to address some of the initial concerns that Mr. Klein provided as part of his first review of the application. Um, as was noted that queue exists along the frontage today. It extends back um from the north south towards the subject property towards Route 10 or towards our
site driveways from Route 10. I would characterize that queue. The further south you get, the more of a rolling queue it is, meaning that the further back you go, cars are approaching that queue and slowing down. Um my observations are that you know that queue will extend back beyond these driveways at certain points but then as
the light turns green at Route 10 that queue will clear and provide vehicles with the opportunity to traverse in and out of this facility. Um one of the benefits of having multiple access points is it affords the tenants or patrons of this facility numerous opportunities to get into or out of the
subject property. Uh being that most of these tenants are going to be residential in nature, they're going to be familiar with the prevailing conditions on the adjacent roadway network and they're going to choose the access point that makes the most sense for them. They're going to know that if the queue is temporarily blocking the northern driveway, they have the
opportunity to use that central or southern driveway to gain access to the site. So again, in my professional opinion, based on the results of the gap study, based on our observations, you know, we feel that those driveways can function adequately. Would you be willing to restrict the northern
driveway to a right turn in, right turn out? Because during my observations, particularly in the afternoon peak hours, the queue is not rolling at that point. It's maybe rolling at the bifurcated driveway and south of that, but that northern driveway is in the thick of it, I think. So, and like you
said, the c the residents know that if they're going to have to go left to go south, they're going to go out the southern driveway. So I don't think it'll impede the movement of traffic to make that a right in right out only. you and traditionally that loca you know it used to you know that that um you know
northern driveway um was you know ingress only um you know back when uh you know when when the uh >> you know that area had you know multi-tenants in it and also um you'd have a you know a police
officer there not all the time but you know directing traffic similar to what uh happens near the shop right um And you know, it does back up there considerably. You know, >> I would like to um offer on behalf of the applicant, we're going to propose a
stipulation, Mr. Chase, just identify the northern driveway, please, that Mr. Klein just spoke about. Okay. The applicant would stipulate as a condition of approval, should the board act favorably, it would be right in, right out only.
>> Good. And that would have to be uh signed or marked in some appropriate fashion as determined uh by the board professional. >> We can certainly work with Mr. Klein to propose either a channelizing island and or additional signage on both the South Livingston A Livingston Avenue and site
driveway approaches to that intersection to make sure it's accurately depicted >> and and we can make a title 39 so they can enforce it. Police can enforce it. >> Correct. >> Oh. Uh, another stipulation I didn't uh think of, the site is probably already subject to title 39, but um, nevertheless, uh, the applicant would
stipulate to if necessary or if not yet done to apply for title 39 jurisdiction, which is my letter to the governing body, governing body adopting a resolution if it deems so appropriate. >> Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Finish. That's a county road. Uh I believe that right in
right out would have to be subject to county approval as well. >> Yeah. >> And Mr. Glenn, I know that you have a little bit of timing problems. Just let me know when you need to jump out for a second. >> I'm good. Uh and then the other uh oh, visitor parking. You said there'll
be some inside, a lot of it's going to be outside. It adds up to roughly 0.5 unassigned parking spaces per unit. It does that meets RSIS. >> That's correct. >> Okay, good. >> You made a statement that the turning radius is reviewed with the fire chief
for our aerial piece. >> That's correct. So, the as part of the civil engineering set that was submitted, uh the app the site engineer did provide the township's uh ladder truck for site circulation throughout the site. Uh that was reviewed at the track meeting with the fire chief and it was part of the site plan set.
>> Okay. That middle section also. >> That's correct. >> Do you have the exhibit? Do you have sheet 20 and I guess 21 and the last few sheets of your plan set that you can pull up because that I think some a board member had a question
about the back corners about the turns in the back corners. >> That is correct. So what you can see here is highlighted in green. Uh it's again it's the township and it is Oh, this is the refuge truck. If you want to pull the fire truck out.
That's single unit there. This is the fire truck. So, again, uh, as Mr. Klein mentioned, this does depict the township's ladder truck traversing the site. um all of the driveways. Obviously, you know, notwithstanding the fact that the firehouse is located directly opposite
this the southern access point, um it can freely circulate the aisles uh around all three sides of the building as well as circulate through the central bifurcated access point in the middle of subject property. >> And I believe you have a box truck and a garbage truck and it also
>> we that's correct, Mr. Klein. We also have a refuge truck and a a single unit box truck showing access to those loading areas that I mentioned previously. >> And then this just hit me when the resident came up and talked about the fence and the buffering. Could we put signs up that say head-on parking only
so that way headlights don't glare? If there is any glare of headlights shining eastward, they'd be facing west, facing the building. Head-on parking only. >> I'd certainly confer with the applicant. I don't think you would take issue to providing head-end parking only.
>> Okay. >> Let me just identify those spaces. >> The Yeah, the ones along the eastern side. >> Yeah. Eastern side of this >> head on parking only. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We would we agree. >> Okay. I think that's it. >> Yeah, I think that's it.
That's it for me. >> Uh thank you, Mr. Klein. Questions from the board. Um just one and and I think it's more just for the benefit of the public confirming that from this site there is no direct access to Ardan Road. Correct. You can only
>> That is correct. >> Okay. Because earlier iterations there was a potential and I know there was understandable concern about people using that shortcut out to Ardan to Sherbrook and all that but now you'd have to leave there, make a left and then make a left on Ardan to get back to where you could just make a right anyway. So >> that is correct. The only accesses to
and from the subject property are only from South Livingston Avenue. Thank you. >> The parking is as we see around the the structure or is it somewhere covered parking as well? >> There is a garage that's within the building as well. So what you see on the exhibit that's before you is the surface
parking. Uh the architect is going to go through the floor plans. So you'll see the the bless you. You'll see the internal parking as well. and and the internal parking is secured. Entrance is restricted to maybe a key holder or a card swipe or something like that.
>> Yeah, both entrances to the garage are controlled by garage doors. The tenants to the building, it's similar to an easy pass system. It mounts in your windshield and there's a reader. So, when they pull up to the garage door in either direction, it'll open automatically. And then, as I mentioned, there will be some visitor parking
internal to that. Uh but those visitors will have to be allowed access through uh butterfly system which provides tenants of the building the ability to open the door for them or the building manager to open the door for them. But those are the only people that have access to the internal parking.
>> Do you know how many spots are there in the internal parking? >> Uh I do. >> 310. Okay. And those are all assigned spots. >> That's correct. >> And you did mention that there is a 247 uh staff on site. Is there somebody
taking care of the parking or security of the parking 24/7. Also, >> there's a building manager on site which will cover all those >> one staff is taking care of it. >> Yeah. >> Would there be surveillance in the parking in and around? >> I'm going to defer to the architect as
far as the security systems within the building. >> Okay. >> Short answer is yes, but a subsequent witness will testify to that. >> Thank you. >> A couple of things, Mr. Chairman. Uh I think I heard 2 seconds increase in the
traffic pattern. Uh and maybe it's a wrong reference. Can you please help clarify? You said um if we considered this as a brand new development and that's what you're considering, not as a as a replacement of an existing commercial space. Uh Mr. Klein's letters
talks about five additional uh development and the impact on the traffic on South Livingston Avenue. In that reference I heard and maybe it is is something to clarify. Are you suggesting 2 seconds average increment on South Livingston Avenue? Is that what I heard? Is that correct?
>> So I'll try to answer all those questions that you had in there. So you are that question. >> Certainly you were correct uh with your initial statement that we assume this was new over vacant land. So we didn't take any credit for the former buildings that were there. Um we did include those five additional area developments uh in
and around the subject property as additional background traffic. And then yes, my reference to the uh two-cond increase from the no build to build conditions. So the pre and postdevelopment analysis that was specific to the operations at the signalized intersection of Route 10 and South Livingston Avenue. Again,
assessing the overall operational conditions of that intersection. >> So uh about 500 parking space around that 410 around that uh in and out with commercial traffic. Once again, are we are suggesting two
second increase at the intersection? I'm just trying to make it as plain as possible. >> Certainly, and that's a great question. So, we get this a lot. How do parking spaces correspond to overall traffic activity? Um, you know, certain >> that Sorry, but that that also means
people going in and out, commercial traffic going in and out. It's not just parking spots, right? There's a there's a traffic involved, too. >> That is correct. And so our traffic is based off the number of units proposed as well as the square footage for the commercial portion of the facility. So two different metrics, residential
units, commercial square footage. And what we focus on is the worst case overall hour during those. So we're not saying that there's no activity at other points throughout the day. Uh but we look at the adjacent and this typically coincides as it does here with the weekday morning and evening commuter
peak hours and then the peak hour during the midday sha for Saturday shopping hours. We focus on that one hour. So we look at the traffic activity during that one peak hour um based on again the number of units. Uh with residential you typically see that uh trip generation.
It's spread. It's not concentrated over a single hour like it would be for an office development where everyone will typically show up between 8 am and 9:00 am leave between 4 and 5:00 pm. Your residential traffic, it occurs over a much wider range. Typically, people start leaving for work at 6:00 a.m. They
may leave all the way up till 9:00 a.m. Uh, so it's spread over a longer period of time. We focus on the single highest hour. Similarly, in the evening, people will start arriving home at 3:30, 400 p.m. all the way till 6:30. So, again, it's spread over a greater time. Uh but again, we're just focusing on that
single hour. So we're not suggesting that, you know, the total parking on site that the trip generation in table four represents all that activity throughout the day. It's just the that single highest hour. >> That's a snapshot of of what you're seeing as probably the most impacted
>> that's exactly >> hour. Uh maybe to a question to Mr. Klein in reference to that. Uh and I thank you your your letter was very clear and lot of points in here. Um what is your opinion in terms of um I think
you raised two points which which caught my attention. Second we'll talk about it which is a spread out parking spaces including ADA and EV EV parking spots but focusing on the traffic itself um when we add that right only uh addendon
or the stipulation uh that we talked about is that going to sort of how it's going to help and can you articulate a little bit more in terms of uh spread out peak hours morning and evening and what would be the kind of impact we are looking at with that additional
stipulation. >> So, the right turn in, right turn out for the northern driveway is more of a safety issue. If you're trying to make a left turn from that driveway and you're looking to the right, you'll be looking through two lanes of queued up traffic coming from Route 10 on South Livingston
Avenue. So, you won't be able to see through that to safely make a left turn out. So, that's why we're saying make it a right turn in only, right turn out only. So, that that's one issue. the left turns that would come out of that driveway will now be relocated to the some of them to the center driveway
primarily to the southern driveway which I would think the way they distributed their traffic if you want to go south you'd leave at the southern end of the site to make a left and if you want to go north you'd leave at the northern end and make a right turn so I think it's already happening that way in their
analysis so by making it a right turn and right turn only it's just for a safety issues there uh as far as the the distribution of the traffic. As Mr. Chase said, that's what we do as traffic engineers. We look at the worst hour of the day, 7:30 to 8:30, and then we put
on the peak hour traffic of the development in that same hour. And again, it could be spread out, and it actually could not be the same hour. So, it's really the worst case morning hour, PM peak hour, and Saturday peak hour. As far as their analysis goes, they did not
include the traffic, and I believe at least the Dunkin Donuts. There are quite a few things that are still active there. They didn't take any credit for the traffic coming in and out of there. So, that was pretty conservative. I would say they could have certainly counted the site driveways, subtracted those numbers out and then done their
analysis and they probably would have ended up with better levels of service even than that. Thank you. Thank you. That's helpful. Uh now the second point um is on the parking spot. So, we have EV and we have ADA. Uh one of the suggestion was ADA spread out uh
underground outside you know we have um you know special needs units in the in the area as well and generally speaking you know ADA uh required parking spot or ADA parking spots are are important to have you know accessibility is important
for them >> as well as EV Kevin can you expand on the spread out of it how accessible it'll be and other part of EV Is is the EV spots only available to the tenants and the residents of the site or
is it available to let's say people coming in and out? >> Sure. >> How are you visualizing that? >> Some of this is going to come from Corey. Some of it is going to come from the architect as we get into the building. He may know, >> but go ahead Corey. >> Yeah, I can and I I'll just briefly
touch on it and again as Mr. Or mentioned, our architect will will really go through the internal floor plans so you'll get a better idea. Uh, but there are, it's a little bit harder to see on this rendering that's before you because they're done in black, so they don't stand out as much as being in blue. Um,
but there are ADA spaces. So, there are two ADA spaces located, which are being currently circled right now on the ingress portion of that central access point. Uh, those are located directly adjacent to the special needs units that you mentioned earlier. There's also two additional angled ADA spaces, again,
intended to serve the the retail commercial tenants. If you go to the north, there's two additional ADA access spaces, again located directly adjacent to those commercial tenants, intended to serve that. Uh there is there are seven ADA spaces located within the garage,
which are not depicted on this, but you'll be able to see it once the internal floor plans are shown. Um that does satisfy the international building code for the internal ADA requirements within the garage. Uh there are as you mentioned there are EV spaces which are located along the eastern building
facade and there are some additional EV spaces that are located within the parking garage. The ones within the parking garage will only be accessible to the tenants and or their visitors. Um and then again as I mentioned there are some surface EV spaces located adjacent to the eastern building facade. >> And the architect's going to testify
we've we've located the EV charging stations within the garage closest to the access or ingress points to the garage. And that was a recommendation of the fire chief. >> But we'll let the architect testify to that though. >> Thank you. >> A quick question just um because you
mentioned that you did your analysis which I appreciate was conservative and Mr. Klein alluded to it that you compared this and you didn't take any credit for the existing but do you have an opinion or did you even do any rough back of the napkin? If the existing uh amount of square footage of retail space
was back at its former glory, fully occupied, how would that compare to this traffic-wise? >> Yeah, actually I do have those numbers. Um and that anticipating this question would come up. Um so focusing on the three critical peak hours again assuming this is just an IT Institute of
Transportation Engineers to IT comparison. So apples to apples comparison. um in the weekday morning. Uh and just to note too, these the tra the travel patterns would be slightly different. Uh obviously in the morning it's primarily residentials exiting where commercial you have more of a
split, but I'm just looking at the total numbers into and out of the site during each of these three peak periods. Uh the weekday morning, it's approximately 25 additional trips. So that would be approximately one trip every two to three minutes. And then when you get to the weekday evening and the Saturday
peak hours, it's actually a reduction in trips when compared to the former use. So even though we are proposing residential units and a small portion of additional commercial, when you compare it to the former commercial space and that supplemental office space on the second story, it would actually be a
reduction in the evening and Saturday peak hours. It's approximately 50 trips during each. >> Thank you. Seeing that one from our professionals, >> you're you're basing the parking on 19,650 square feet of retail space, correct?
>> That is correct. >> And do you have as comparison what the existing retail space is on this site? >> It's approximately 46,000 square feet. >> Substantial reduction. >> Yes. In retail, that's correct. >> Any questions from the public uh for the
traffic engineer? Oh, you saw you you were beat out and address again. Sherbet Parkway. Um, Mr. Klein, you answered one of my questions because I was very concerned about egress on these three
on South Livingston Avenue and they're all going to be the south and the middle. You can turn right or left as you're coming out, I assume. And and the northern one right only.
>> Okay. Uh you also mentioned a lost me a little bit about the gap between the east Cedar Street light and the Livingston Center light. the street Ardan Road and Sherbet
Parkway have been a traditional cut through to avoid Livingston Center. And maybe you could help me understand how an additional 300 cars, even if one quarter of them are leaving at 7 or 8:00
or 9:00 in the morning and coming back in at 3 or 4 in the afternoon. how that's going to boil down to one or two seconds in delay at the light. The other question I had
is did you take into consideration in your traffic analysis what how much traffic would be diverted Ardan Road Parkway during the peak hours? >> So I'll answer your first question
first. So we use analytical software to conduct these intersection evaluations and you know we use the same software to evaluate it with and without the development. So that's how we come up with whatever that average increase in vehicle delay is that I testified to previously. So that was based on this
industry standard analysis that we perform and again that takes the existing traffic volumes compares it to the proposed and sees what the differential is. So that's how we we came to that conclusion. Um, you know, given that the where the site is located and the access that we're providing
along South Livingston Avenue, you know, we're anticipating that that South Livingston Avenue and that was one of the primary reasons for not providing a direct connection to Ardan Road so that we would not encourage any of the cut through traffic there given that it's all located directly to South Livingston Avenue. Would encourage residents to use
that as their primary ingress and egress to the subject property. >> No, I understand that. But even without that egress onto Ardan Road, a lot of the residents use Ardan Road and Sherbrook Parkway to bypass the center. And I'm if there's a blockage of any
kind because cars are leaving your development, whether it's a two-c delay or a 10-second delay, there's going to be a lot more traffic going down Ardan Road and Sher Parkway to bypass that blockage. I'm just asking if you took
into consideration how much traffic might be diverted to that side road. >> And that's a great question, sir. So, based on our analysis and based on the results of the gap study, we're not anticipating that there will be a blockage in traffic occurring as a result of people either trying to get into or out of this facility. So, based
on that, it's not going to be any uh significant increase in the amount of time that people are waiting along the subject property frontage along South Livingston Avenue. And that would not result in additional people utilizing those existing streets to cut through or bypass the site. >> Remains to be seen.
>> Thank you. >> We have your street number >> 37 Sherver Parkway. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Hi, good evening council and planning board. Um my concern is about >> your name. >> Oh, Jesse. >> Jessie.
>> Do I need to give my last name? >> Okay. Hey, Gris. >> A G R I SS. And uh my concern is also about the cut through between Sherbrook and Ardan. I live on Sherbrook and Ardan and
regularly I see cars passing down using it as a cut through exceeding 35 miles an hour. Just about two hours ago I was getting in my car and there was a car zooming past me I estimated about 40 miles an hour. and how
300 more cars are going to be introduced into this town. How are we going to combat the speeding and the erratic driving? Because nothing has been done yet. So, how do you plan to compete and eliminate the speeding and the erratic
driving not only on this street but the most of the town most of the streets that are affected? Those are great questions and we certainly appreciate your concern. Uh unfortunately I think you know speeding and and things like that that really falls out of the purview of the planning
board. That's more of a a township council issue unfortunately. Um you know there's certain measures that can be done by the township council recommendations whether it's speed humps, trafficcoming other items but it really falls out of the purview of what we're proposing. Um you what what it's
our job to do is make sure that we have adequate access to the site so that we don't encourage any additional cut through traffic. And that's really what you heard my testimony earlier this evening was >> we're laying the site out in a manner such that it provides safe and efficient access to discourage anyone from having to use
>> those existing residential streets to cut through more. But I would certainly encourage you to to take your concerns to the township council and let them know your feelings and certainly let them know your experiences. >> Yeah, I've done that. >> So if I can just if I can just follow up. I think because I think they're they're they're great they're great questions >> and you know one of the you know one of
the benefits of having you know the town manager sit on the planning board is also to hear these concerns and sorry >> and a council member uh >> you to to hear these concerns and I
think they're important to raise um and and look you know I've also you know you Dr. Reber, myself, uh, you know, we've served on the governing body as well for for many years and and we've heard these concerns as well for many years and I
know that the, uh, police department is addresses it as best they can. they will continue to, but I think that you have here uh you know people here on this board listening that will then certainly address this with uh you know with the appropriate people in town uh you know to you know to come up with other maybe
perhaps other trafficcoming devices but to make sure that you know I think that uh what what you know I think one of the most important you know jobs of the uh town council is public safety and that includes vehicular public safety as well.
Jesse, can we have your address? We didn't get your address. >> The same as mine. 42. >> So, as the chairman brought up, >> yes, I have taken these to the count the council as our council members here know. Uh they've been dodging questions and dodging responsibility for two
years. No, this like really isn't funny. Our streets are dangerous. Like for pedestrians, I kind of have to like fear for my life at this point. There are people regularly driving upwards of 35 miles an hour on our street. And not only have I been bringing this up at
most of the town council meetings for two years. No action has been done. >> Okay. >> Nothing has been done. >> Again, right right now and and you'll you'll get a chance at the end to, you know, any concerns in favor of or against the application. Right now, I really just want to focus on, you know,
the you and we heard your concerns, of course, and we have also a member of the council here and also the town manager here. Um, you know, but if you have more of those concerns, I would save them for when we take testimony under oath at the end. Uh, and right now just really focusing on uh questions for the
witness. Just that's a process and procedure of these uh hearings. But but we certainly thank you. Um, and I don't want to cut you off. You have other questions, please. Uh, I don't want to cut you off for the witness. No, I'm supporting him because it is true that we have been doing that at this since
2022 and he's kind of a broken record, but he's very frustrated and I'm his mom >> and I see it every day. >> Seconds he's walking into the street and there's a car zooming by literally missing him by seconds and we have come
before this council many times about the speeding issues and there was a speeding sign put on my property. That was the that was the resolution. I guess I don't we're kind of getting a little bit off topic, but I think I think you know certainly >> the placating
>> you know certainly there there are members from the governing body. >> We need someone to come out seriously come and talk to us about this. We're kind of tired of of having these conversations and having nothing happen. So thank you. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Chairman, if I if I just may briefly
add that as a past president of the board of education, it's a very proud moment for me to see a middle schooler take the mic and and opine. So, good job, Jesse. Very proud. >> That's why people come to Livingston.
>> Jim Develin, 41 Sherbet Parkway. Um in two years ago we a lot of people came out and they were concerned about congestion that the proposed site the density is much higher than anything else on Livingston Avenue and Mount
Pleasant Avenue. Right. There's just far exceeds that. We had a lot of concerns and I think 195 units were initially approved and the um and then the uh you know the special services and the other housing was going to be located off C
offsite. Now you guys are asking I guess that was rejected to to increase instead of like sticking with 195 and saying the affordable housing will just be a part of that 195 we're going to increase it to 230. Is that what it is? How many units?
>> It's uh so I'll defer to Mr. Orth, but we're the proposed density the proposed unit counts in in conformance with the redevelopment plan. So we're not asking for a variance or an increase to what was permitted redevelopment plan >> 226. Did you guys take into account the increase how much traffic would be increased by increasing the number of
units? I mean we're already concerned about the the traffic. >> We did. So our studies represented on the application that's before you this evening. So it's the 226 units. So, and just I would like to, you know, bring up I know that this is not about traffic and the cutthroughs, but it's already a
problem with the community, right? And this is a large proposed area, highly dense, and we already have a trouble with with Sherbrook and Ardan and the other surrounding towns. Two years ago in the fall, people came
and they said, "I avoid Livingston Avenue and Mount Pleasant Avenue." >> Do you have a specific question for the witness? because at the end you'll get you'll get this opportunity. >> Yeah. No. Yes. Yes. So my my question is going to it was how what's the impact but also what is our
what is going to be in place? How do we not see how how can you say or actually let me I'll take I'll give you a question in part of your traffic study when you say ah it's only going to be a two second increase when at 7:30 in the morning it's already backed up on Mount
Pleasant Avenue is part of the reason why it's only a two-c increase is because people traffic diverts right because people are going to more people are going to cut through Sherbrook more people are going to go through broad lawn to get to the schools when the schools are all filling in because you can't get out of Sherbrook Parkway at
7:20 in the morning because people are backed up at M Mount Pleasant already. >> And that that's a great question, sir. So, we're assuming that they're using the primary roadway network. We're not making the assumption that additional people are going to divert or cut through and therefore reducing our the existing traffic volumes. We're just
searchcharging our traffic on top of what's there, assuming that it all remains as is. >> Okay. I just >> Go ahead. Develin d e v l i n. >> Thank you.
>> Hi >> everybody. Welcome to Jim Metropolis. I'm one of the owners at 38 to 44 South Livingston Avenue, the commercial property across the street. >> Did you get that? >> Uh Jim Metropolis. M T R O P O U L O S. Multiple owners. I'm one of them. All
right, I got several questions. Um, first, can you just point out to me the main entrance and exit? Where is that in relation to the structures on the other side of South Livingston Avenue right now? >> Which structures are you for
>> like what what's opposite that that entrance and exit area? Is that the emergency department driveway? Is that the fire department driveway? What what what is opposite that? >> Yes. So, you can see So this is uh the aerial exhibit which
is I believe sheet two in the existing sipline set. So I don't Mr. Ortha I don't think we need to mark this as an exhibit because >> we we we don't need to mark this. >> No, we already have that. >> Yeah, Miss Mr. Metropolis, the aerial you're looking at obviously doesn't show the proposed development. He's going to estimate from your questions. Go ahead.
>> Okay. Yeah, but you can see uh outlined in red with the PIQ in the center. That's the property in question. Again, the two prior commercial buildings as I mentioned uh to the south and you can see the existing firehouse, the striping associated with the firehouse access.
And then as you go north along South Livingston Avenue, you can see the existing commercial properties located opposite the subject property. >> Go ahead. >> Right. Okay. So, is the future entrance and exit basically where the current Dunkin Donuts entrance and exit is, or
is it going to be further to the south? That's what I'm trying to >> So, that entrance and exit is largely located in the existing location that it is today. That bifurcated driveway that I spoke of that has the landscaping in the middle, largely in the same location as the access directly adjacent to the
Dunkin Donuts, the old pharmacy, whatever. >> That's correct, sir. >> Okay. Okay. So, um, and, uh, again, I you you lost me on a b bunch your testimony, too. I thought I was a smart guy, but I didn't get a lot
of that. Um, it sounds like traffic is determined safe or reasonable by what it does to the speed or the timing of traffic on South Livingston Avenue. Right? So, one two second difference. It's you're you're
basically determining the volume the the volume change and what it does to the volume and the speed on South Livingston Avenue. Is that correct? >> It's not necessarily speed, sir. It's average vehicle delay. So, we that's what we're looking at. >> Okay. So you does that mean you don't
take into consideration what um left and right turn onto South Livingston does particularly when there are driveways opposite this development that are also looking to enter and exit. Is is that pattern taken into consideration at all
in the work you do? >> It is. So we'll look at the existing driveways located opposite the subject property. And again that was one of the primary reasons that Mr. client had asked for the gap study to really assess what those impacts were of left both in and out of the subject property. Um there are multiple commercial driveways
located across the street. Um so again, you know, keeping the driveway in its current location or largely in its current location we felt was the best option in this scenario. So, so the change in the volume exiting the future development um and the current
volume that exits the parking lots across the street was deemed to be normal, safe. Uh the addition was it quantified in any way? >> Yeah, we look at the access to determine if it's safe and efficient and that's what really it's two-part. It's, you
know, you look at the site distance, you look at the queueing that we've been speaking of, you look at adjacent access points and we need to confirm that the access in the future would be both safe and efficient and based on the results of the analysis, the available site distance, the looking at the queueing, the gap study, all those things come
into play and we've determined that it's both safe and efficient. But do do you did you quantify the volume that enters South Livingston Avenue from the other BU businesses on the opposite and what you're and the quant and quantified your volume and how it's just going to change
because you're going to have multip people looking at each other across South Livingston Avenue looking to enter South Livingston Avenue. Was that taken into consideration in the work you do? >> It is and that's all part of the gap study. So we look at the existing volumes on South Livingston Avenue, the operational conditions at those
driveways opposite the site. They're taking up some of those existing gaps. So we don't include that in our gap analysis as an available gap because it's already been taken. >> Okay. And you know, someone mentioned before blockage and that you're not counting any existing exits from the
Dunkin Donuts, but anyone who spent any time um staring at South Livingston Avenue there, one car exiting South Livingston Avenue most times of the day creates some amount of blockage. So, so trying to understand the volume and I'm
I'm all for the development. I'm just trying to understand if we really understand what that driveway in the place where it is does to the the the not the speed or the time it takes you to get from 10 to the next street, but
what happens in the middle where you have multiple people trying to enter South Livingston Avenue. just trying to understand whether that how that was taken into consideration because exits from Dunkin Donuts right now as little as they are causes blockage plenty of times during the course of the day and
we know it's what 150th oneth 120th of what it's going to be. Okay. Um so I think so you kind of took it into consideration but it doesn't sound like you quantified quantified it. >> No we did. We quantified the available gaps in traffic and that we found that
it was many multiples over what our traffic is going to generate. >> Okay. The the safe determined someone said it's this was determined that safe ingress and egress. Just curious what's the definition of safe ingress and egress? Is that a quantifiable
definition of safety or is it your opinion? Is it qualitative? >> It's subjective. My opinion as a professional engineer. >> Okay. Um Okay. So again, there are driveways opposite the structure and they're not easy to deal
with on affectionately called South Livingston Speedway, by the way, Jesse. South Livingston Avenue is really South Livingston Speedway. Um, but I'm all for I can't wait for it to be built actually. But really the the volume
when you have driveways staring at each other and South Livingston Avenue is in the middle, someone needs to count cars is I guess what I'm saying. >> Thank you. >> Just one followup though to that question because I think the gentleman is largely concerned about the center
driveway and currently the center driveway is the by far the main and most heavily used driveway. In this situation, would you envision the majority of the traffic are the the residents? Correct. >> That's correct. >> And most of them will not be using the center driveway. Is that correct? >> That's correct. You have the the southern access point, which will be
your initial access if you're coming north along South Livingston Avenue. And certainly anybody turning left in um will that's the easiest and most direct path to the both parking garages to to the one on the northern building facade and to the one on the southern building facade as well. So, >> thank you.
>> And that section is two-way, is that right? That's correct. >> And left turn. >> That is correct, sir. >> Is allowed there. >> Correct. >> Any other questions from the public? >> And any others from the board or our professionals?
Seeing none, I >> think we're done. Can we take a >> I was on mute for a while. You want to take a break for a second? >> Yeah. Yeah. Why don't we take like a five minute break? >> Great. Thank you very much. All right, welcome back. >> We have everybody. Yeah, Kaitton is
here. >> All right, we're all set. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Um, I typically save this for my closing, but I just want to say it it's just as a practitioner, it is a real pleasure to be in a community like this where the folks come out, they care, the
board cares, the applicant cares, and we all work together to create the best uh community that we can. And I just thank everyone who's here tonight for everything that has been said so far and working together to create something better on this site. So, I'll stop there. >> Okay. Thank you. And I'll bring up my last witness here
>> and thank you for for listening to the concerns of the residents and uh you know uh you know and certainly u you know you you considering them and putting them into your plan. >> Absolutely. So my last witness this evening is my arch and actually uh my last witness on the application is my architect Jack Raker from Minnow and
Wasco. >> You raise your right hand sir. You swear the testimony in this matter will be the truth the whole truth. Nothing but the truth. >> I do. Please give us your full name and spell the last name. >> My name is Jack Rker. R A K E R.
>> Okay, Jack. I know we've worked together uh many times, but please give the board, members of the public a brief overview of your professional qualifications, confirming your licenses are in good standing and effect in the state of New Jersey. Couple of towns where you have been qualified as an expert in the field of architecture as
well. Thank you. >> Sure. Uh I'm a principal at Minow and Wasco Architects and Planners. Uh I've been practicing in this field of architecture, residential, multif family, mixed use uh for about 25 years. I my license is in good standing and
I've testified before numerous boards before the state of New Jersey, Chadam, Milbour, Verona, uh South Amboy, uh East Brunswick, um Jersey City. >> That's good. I uh so tender him as an
expert in the field of architecture. Mr. Chairman, >> question. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Mr. Reker, before we get going, you prepared the plans in connection with this application, correct? >> I did. >> Okay. And you prepared the exhibits uh or oversaw the preparation of the
exhibits you're presenting this evening? >> Yes. >> Okay. Please walk the board through your presentation of the architecture for the project. Thank you. >> Absolutely. Uh are we going to have to mark the whole presentation in as evidence? These are colored versions of the submitted plans.
>> This is in a one packet set. >> In one packet set. >> Uh >> each page or the whole set. Okay. So then uh if we may, this would be A5. Jackie architectural. Um what what do you want
to call this? Rendered architectural set. >> Yeah, rendered architectural set. >> Okay. Can you give me a date, please? >> Michael, I don't know if you have August 5th. 2024 2025. >> Okay. 820
85 2025. >> Okay. Mr. Raker, take it away, please. >> Sure. Michael, could you go to the first site plan? Uh, first thing I want to point out the all the exhibits you're going to see the building orientation has been rotated 180 degrees. So, South Livingston Avenue
will be at the top of the page. The with the previous exhibits, you've seen it at the bottom of the page. Uh, I'm not going to spend much time on this slide. We spent a lot of time on the site plan, but just wanted to orient you as to the building orientation. We can go to the ground floor. Michael,
thank you. So the this is the first floor of the building. First of all, I want to um just hit a couple of quick items here. The building is four5 stories. It's sort of burned into a hill. We have some grading on site that we have to make up.
So when you're looking at this exhibit here, you can kind of see where that white area exists. That parking garage that you see there is burmed into the ground. the grade to the right uh or to the north is actually about 10 to 12
feet higher than the grade down by where the retail is uh toward the bank. So in this exhibit, the blue is the retail area. We have approximately uh 18,520 ft of retail. It's spread and it steps
across the front. We've kept the active uh uses toward South Livingston Avenue. So all that garage that you see there in plan is not visible at all from South Livingston Avenue. Just the access points. It's buried to the right and it's shielded by active uses such as the
lobby and amenity and the retail to the left. >> Is that different than the retail square footage we were given by the traffic engineer? >> That is uh that should not be the difference. >> What what is the figure you gave us? I
gave 18520. >> Mr. Or didn't the uh >> I think the engineer the traffic engineer gave us a different amount. >> It's less I have >> I'm sorry. I have a written report of
19,650. Jack, what did you just say for the retail? >> 18520. >> Okay. So, what is the Let's resolve the number now. >> It It could be a net and gross number. It's that small of a difference.
>> It's the back of house. It's the back of house for the retail. >> Most likely that's what it is. Yes. That there's a small portion of trash that serves the retail that maybe is not included. This is a this is a leasable square footage number.
>> I see it. Okay. It's the um >> so we have >> the gray area. That's what it is there. >> And a little portion when we get to the other side, there's a small portion to the right there as well that was not considered in this 185 number. >> Okay. Yeah. So the architect is speaking
to the leasable square footage. There is a portion which we had marked on the engineering plans and on the application which includes trash, mechanicals, so on and so forth um for the uh retail square footage. That's the minor differential
there. So as I said before the we do have some grading here that changes. Um that's why the building is a slash four and five stories. Uh depending upon where you're measuring it from looking at it from on
site. Um as you're down toward the retail, you're going to have the taller portions of the building, the five stories. And on back toward the back, I'll show some perspectives later. You'll see how grade goes up and buries the garage, the parking garage.
Uh we have a significant amount of uh amenity. I'm going to go through all their locations. total of about 14,800 square feet of amenity plus or minus. Um, and included here we have two levels of garage and 310 total parking spaces
in the garage. The garages are not contiguous. They stack on top of one another, but we use grade to access the different areas of the garage. So, we have the main lobby centered right at that center courtyard. That sort of pinkish area in plan, that's our
amenity and lobby areas. The lobby's right at the end of that that arc uh that curved feature where there's the drop off. We have a series of um loading areas that are served internally through
the building. Um, there's one here, move in and access for retail. Down here, move in the loading area. And when I get to the up the next level up, there's one over to the right. Garage
access is here under the building for vehicles and residences. >> We got to get you an electric pointer there. I'll tell you what, >> I don't think it works on these on these screens. Um, we also have the trash termination rooms. They end here and there is one
over there as well. They'll there are trashes brought out and as was testified earlier um at specific times planned and and scheduled. Um, we had a comment earlier that
uh the EVA EV charging stations need to be moved closer to the main entry of the garage. So, we moved all of those EV charging stations closer to the entry of the garage. That was one of the comments from the fire department and we accommodated that no problem. Um,
we have uh two access points. So, we do have the the main access point here. We also have a special needs access point over here that corresponds to some accessible parking. that um has all been seen by the DDD and they've approved the
locations uh and our layout from a safety standpoint and from an access standpoint for the special needs. >> And and Jack, while you're still on this slide, our uh one of our prior witnesses testified to the loading areas. Michael, just highlight um let's start out with
the retail pad there. Go ahead. There's that loading area right there. And we have ingress and egress to the building point right there. Okay. So that works right there >> as well. Move in and we have loading for the for the return. >> Okay. And then go um plan south. Now there's another loading area right
there. Another eras point to the building. >> Correct. And refues here as well. Okay. >> All right across from the loading. >> Perfect. And you already highlighted the um uh the 88 parking stalls which also have an access point. Go up.
>> Yeah, Jack already highlighted right there. Correct. There. And there's a direct access point. And that's ADA accessible. Correct. >> Correct. The access to that entry is ADA accessible. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Okay, Michael. I think we're done with this sheet. Oh, wait. I do want to point
out and I'll go back. These are two-level units. I'll show them to you in uh elevation. They're they look like town homes. They have a special stoop out to the sidewalk, but they also they are also at accessed internally. So you
can park in the garage, go into the hallway and access those units. The living levels down below and then the bedroom levels up above. We can go to the next slide, Michael. Thanks. So I'm going to start with the top right
corner. We have additional retail there because the grade is stepping up as you go up South Livingston Avenue. We have additional retail that hides that garage below and some of the residential units behind. We also have an additional parking level. That parking level is
accessed on the back corner um of the site. As grade slopes up, we get access to that level that's 10 ft up. And the parking garage is almost nearly buried. The lower parking garage is almost nearly buried at this level. It's exposed down here, but as you get up,
it's it's uh almost fully fully buried. So at this level we have two amenity and outdoor amenity spaces that was gone over by the landscape architect. And we have an amenity that fronts that pool. We also have another amenity that is
fully enclosed in that area there. There's access point two access points in and out of those areas. Very popular areas to spend uh some time. That internal one's a little more quiet. this the the pool area uh has a little bit more of an active use as well.
>> Can you can you tell us about that pool? I mean just I the neighbors were worried about is there a fence or something that you can't really look over and look at? >> Yeah. So I I'll go over that when we I will look at the the the elevation view, but we are we do plan to build a wall so that the visibility out of that space is
is uh you won't be able to see. We'll raise the parapit wall so you won't be able to see out. And at this uh room, we also do have a bike room location. And we also have the additional loading area, additional movein
um and some other utility spaces on that side. Okay, I think we go to sheet three, Michael. So, now we get to there's another level of amenity courtyard. This happens at the next level up. That's this one back
here. Uh we have a small amenity space off of that courtyard that, you know, all the the amenities that we have in these buildings are um we'll have club rooms, we'll have co-work space, fitness areas, uh gaming areas, um uh many
lounges, places for people to work. Um, a lot of times people who work from home don't like to work in their apartment. They'll go out into these spaces, these common spaces, and get work done. And they feel like they're more in an open public office environment. And again, what I just want to go back.
So, the units wrap all around these courtyards. You'll see on the next slide. Let's go up to the the next level plan. This is where it's an entirely units. There's no amenity at this level. Um, and then Michael, you can go to the next slide. We do cut back the building at the tallest level. That reduces some
of the height along here where the grade is lowest. So that uh that allows the building to appear a little bit lower from South Livingston Avenue. Where the grade is lowest. >> So So the building effectively steps back away from South Livingston Avenue. Is
that correct? >> Correct. >> Okay. And you're working with the grade to reduce the visible height of the building. burying the parking garage two levels to reduce the overall visual impact of the of the structure. Correct. >> Correct.
>> Okay. Go ahead. >> Next level is the roof level. We're showing all the mechanical locations up here. We generally keep them to the center of the roof. They're only about 30 in to 36 in high. We have parapit walls that come up. None of this stuff will be visible from anywhere in the
surrounding area. Um, it's all kept deep in. >> Okay. And as the board will recall, we we um or I stipulated at the initial hearing, any testing of a mechanical equipment, which typically occurs once a week, will be done during the middle of the day during off- peak hours will
comply with state decibel requirements as well. >> Correct. Um, let's go to the next slide, Michael. So, I'm going to the next few slides I'm going to show you are going to be perspective views. But before I hit that, I just wanted to tell you we're using all highquality materials here.
Cast stone, brick, fiber cement siding, um metal railings, metal canopies, very high quality materials. And when I show you the renderings, you'll see that uh it really comes together very cohesively. Let's start at the next view.
So this is a view of the building looking into that main entry courtyard. You can see it's the we've coordinated with landscaping. You see it's well landscaped. We've got uh great high quality materials with the cast stone, the brick, the panels, the fiber cement
panels in between the fiber cement bays that pop out. Um but you can see we've created all these active active uses right along the front right along South Livingston Avenue. That's all the retail, but you kind of see how it steps up. This retail is
somewhat taller than the retail down in this corner. It's hidden by trees. We've done a lot great job at uh planting the site. So, you know, you're not seeing a lot of that the the building facade, but we've accented that entry point. We've created a nice strong symmetrical
entry that really accents where to go when you when you drive up that that entry courtyard. Next, this is a view head a little bit further north on South Livingston Avenue looking back toward the retail on the uh
southern side. Again, well activated streetscape. Uh you go to the Oh, I'm sorry. No, this is the this is the the the corner. Um it's the corner even further north. Uh if
you're all the way at the northern end looking back at that lower retail, the the plaza's down here that entry motor court is down there. >> And this is the intersection which we previously stipulated would be right in right out. >> Correct. >> Northern end of the site there.
>> Correct. Again, nice detailing, brick detailing, a lot of uh reveals created a lot of nice details uh that we think will really add a a great great uh feel to the building. Next one, Michael.
This is uh when you're standing on the south side looking back at the town homes. The town homes that I pointed out previously are the duplex units. You could see those are here. They have the stoops that access them. And then this
is the drive under the building that connects that center motor court. Again, great brick detailing, great uh quality materials. Next one. So, this one tells that story of the grade change at the back. This is
looking back at the garage on the southern edge. Uh, looking north to the right. You can see this is the garage level here. Well landscaped. Uh, this is the amenity deck up here. While we're not showing it here, we're going to
raise this parapit up high enough so that it's not visible looking out from that courtyard. So go ahead, describe it. I'm going to make the stipulation then. >> Sure. So you're you're seeing it here. Um you it's going to we're going to
raise this parapit. Right now we're showing a railing. We'll raise this up so that it's a solid wall goes all the way back so the people on that terrace can't look out into the neighborhood. >> Right. So there was a gentleman who had inquired about the shielding of that
pool area from the residences to the rear. We're going to stipulate to raise that parapit. Do we have a general estimation of that? >> Um, we'll work with the landscape architect. We want to create a feature wall maybe when we get there. Rather than just raise it up, we might want to
create a small feature wall and do something on the other side that that is pleasurable for the tenants when they're looking at at the wall. >> Okay. So, in coordination with the board's professionals, should the board act favorably, we would raise that rear parapel wall to provide some shielding of that uh amenity area.
And then this next slide shows you the second level garage as it steps up and that upper level terrace. But you can see how gradely goes up and and and totally buries the the garage, the larger garage that we've
uh we've very cleverly hidden. And then the last slide, Michael. Um, we have all of our signage. Signage for each use, uh, complies with the redevelopment ordinance. And that concludes my testimony, unless there's any questions.
>> And and and the only thing I add, we we do anticipate some directional signage, which we had talked about earlier on in the hearing, the direct traffic. These are not sign variances that we're talking about. These are insight directional signage. I nothing further uh on direct for Mr.
Reker. I tender tender him over to uh the board. Can >> we talk about the number of uh dens um and whether um I know the uh the redevelopment plan I think called for a certain percentage of uh units with
dens. Can we go can we go through that? >> Sure. Uh there's a requirement for a minimum of 40% onebedrooms. uh we comply with 41.2% of the onebedrooms. There's also a requirement of of those onebedrooms
four 45% need to be one-bedroom dens for a maximum of 45 can be one-bedroom dens. We're at 44.1 and the two-bedroom den ratio is required to be of the two bedrooms. You can't have more than 45%. we have
42.9%. >> So, if I can step in on here, uh the redevelopment plan, uh when discussing dens is actually part of a paragraph that's describing market rate units. The applicant is
seeking to create the percentage of dens based on market rate plus affordable units. So in our letter we reviewed it and we said it was a deviation as the intent was to limit the number of market
rate units uh that would have dents. Um so the applicant is stating that they don't need a deviation but our letter indicates and I agree that uh this would require deviation to permit the number of dens proposed. Could we have the actual number of the
units, not just percentages? >> Sure. >> There was 79 market rate onebedroom units. 41 will contain dens. Correct. Am I am I getting the numbers right? >> If you're if you're discussing just market rate, that's correct. So if
you're of there's 79 total and 41 will be have dents if they're market rate if you're only taking into account market rate units. >> So 116 twobedroom market rate units 57
will contain dens which is about 49% I guess the other issue was I guess um doors. Yes, the um the applicant is seeking the redevelopment plan does not anticipate doors associated with dens uh to prevent
them from becoming additional bedrooms. The applicant is seeking to permit dens permit doors on the dens that are like glass doors. Um so it is um it is a requested uh waiver and it is
for the board to review. >> Yeah. And and the reason I mean it's not that we want them the lease is restrictive to the number of people that can be in the apartments. >> The reason the glass doors are there is just to create a little bit of privacy. Usually that person in the den may be
working, maybe want to watch TV while somebody else in the apartment wants to sleep. And we just find that it's a better use >> to have the doors and it's really more for noise, not for privacy. Like I said, we we would put glass. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think I think in situations where we've allowed
uh doors on dens, we've required them to be somewhat, you know, e either see through open. I'll get the thoughts of the board and see what they think. >> Um yeah, and I know obviously the intent and and the references shall be open to
the adjacent space. I guess the question is door no door. Um obviously our concern is that it not turn into a bedroom. Um I think we have in the past allowed French doors, glass doors, visibility through that would not be conducive to and they already cannot have closets. So that kind of takes away
from being bedrooms as well. So I >> yeah see through maybe yeah see through to to chairman your point see through maybe uh sort of you know it reduces that possibility of making it into turning into a room. So but the other
deviation is is what is concerning. Uh so maybe in terms of um numbers what it would be with and without deviation. >> So uh >> so with what is requested without deviation what is requested should be requested.
>> I hate to be threatened with math at a public hearing by the way. >> No I think this is this is numbers game. >> It's a it's 11 units is is the difference there. Um >> that's the total of
>> twos and ones. How many additional would have dens? >> Okay. So, uh just >> because I have um what I could do at the moment, I know this is a little unorthodox. I can have my principal provide a little bit of brief testimony on this issue as to what the intent was
with the plan from the operational perspective. We could perhaps interrupt Mr. Raker for about 30 seconds. I could bring in Mr. Schwarz to testify to that >> if you would like to hear. >> Sure. >> Okay. So, you can stay there, Mr. Raker.
Jonathan can speak from the mic. >> Um, if you would, Mr. Valerio. >> Will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> Yes. >> Give us your full name for the record. >> Jonathan Schwarz. >> Okay. And Jonathan, just briefly, you're the principal of the applicant, correct? >> Correct.
>> And you oversaw the preparation of the plans and the intent of the plans. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. Why don't you talk to the board a little bit about this den issue? >> Sure. >> And what you what you mean to do there? >> So, we we believe this is going to be a, you know, fairly high empty neester renter here. So, you know, the dens are
generally important for that uh for that demographic. We've done, you know, lots of surrounding towns, similar type projects in Chadam, in West Orange. Generally, those two bed dens have, I would say, if I had to put a percentage to it, 85%
of them are empty nesters that do not have any kids. They want the extra space. Um, we have in our leases that you cannot use it as a bedroom. Um, we do we don't put closets. There's not an extra bathroom. We'd prefer to have them to have doors, but we'll have that they
they'll be fully glassed and that you can't have any curtains on them. So, for all intents and purposes, they end up being an office or potentially like a little extra seating area for, you know, the people to have. >> And what what I mean, what what type of
oversight enforcement do you I mean, you're not going into everybody's unit to see whether they're using it as a bedroom or not. >> Yeah, but we No, but we know if everyone we know who occupies every unit. So, like >> generally it's >> that's really what I'm asking. How how
do you do that? >> Yeah. No, it's in it's in the lease and we know ex I mean we only make a certain amount of key fobs. We have cameras everywhere. We know people can't just like say, "Oh, I have a pretend kid that, you know, isn't on the lease. They're living there." We would catch that. So, you know, whether or not
somebody, you know, puts a couch in there for a guest, you know, that might happen. But we we're we're able to monitor it pretty closely. We know exactly who's living in the, you know, there's you have to everyone who's living there has to be on the lease. Any
questions from any of the other and what we're really talking about is 11 extra units. Is that the number that we're >> Yep. And six of them are one-bedroom dens. So again, that's just for, you know, extra space generally for uh an empty
neester. >> So six onebedroom dens, five twobedroom dens is really what we're talking about. Okay. Does anybody else have any other? >> So in this just clarifying question. So in 11 units we are saying there is no den but deviation will add the den. Is
that what it is? >> No what we're saying is that they are requesting these 11 dens. Um our interpretation is that it is a deviation from the standards and their interpretation was that they could include the affordable units in the
calculation that would make it compliant. Yeah, we we based it on the 226 total units because obviously this was these this the percentage was talked about very early on. So we always in our head thought about it as in 226. Um we may
have calculated it wrong. So then if if yeah if uh Mr. Ellen believes that we miss Allen believes that we would just say uh that would be a deviation. >> Okay. Thank you. >> What's the remedy? So you would either
>> it would be a variance. So when you're dealing with a redevelopment plan, they're not called variances, they're called deviations. They're basically the same thing. >> Uh so they would require a variance or a deviation to permit the extra 11 units with dens or they could eliminate them and make it
conforming. >> What we're really looking at is an interpretation of the redevelopment plan. I don't know what the what what the thoughts were at the time. >> Uh the original plan when it was being developed, the affordable units were
actually >> they were offsite. >> They were considered to be going offsite. um >> but the rationale for limiting the number of dens in the redevelopment in the redevelopment plan regardless
>> uh was you know to prevent possible use of them and >> yeah from a practical matter we're not like especially with a one bed dens if somebody's like living there as a single person with a kid we generally flag that >> you know so >> just beware
>> I'm I'm going to step in here for a second so what We we're proposing a minor deviation from I'm not sure if it's a design standard in the plan or a >> no it would be a >> a bulk standard. We're proposing a minor deviation from the percentage of market
rate units which have a den and to ameliate that proposed deviation. The applicant is willing to stipulate to have a condition in the lease that none of the dens shall be utilized as a living space. And I'm sure Livingston, like many of the towns, requires as a
condition for a turnover of an apartment, they require an inspection. Is that right, uh, Mr. Lewis? You may know. >> Uh, we do not have >> we don't know, but okay. But there are but as a condition of of of the lease that we can propose
as a as a stipulation a conditional lease which prohibits the use of the den for an occupancy. Again, that is not a um habit habitable. >> We normally require that anyway. Okay. >> And there and there are no there there
are no closets. Uh >> no no closets. And something I'll add is a building of this size will generally probably have six to eight full-time employees, one of which who lives there, plus a 24-hour door man. We're in and out of these units quite frequently
with, you know, maintenance uh requests and stuff like that. So we will know if somebody's using it as a bedroom. >> Okay. Any other questions from the board concerns? >> No, but just to be clear, I I mean I think the safer way is to grant as a deviation than air on the side of
interpreting. >> Yeah. Whether Yeah. interpretation or not, I think it's just easier just to deal with it as >> Okay. All right. You can >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All right. Uh Mr. Raker, let's go back to your testimony about the architecture, please. >> Sure. I think there was only one other
item that I I I needed to to finish up and there was a question asked earlier about security cameras and there will be security cameras throughout the garage and throughout the project site. So um there it's well monitored. >> There was also I think another point storage for bicycles. Um
>> yes I did I did mention there we do have storage for >> bicles. Is it sufficient? >> It is sufficient. Yes. >> In your opinion it's sufficient. >> Uh I I believe we have is I'm not sure if it was in the redevelopment plan. I'll have to check if there was a number. We have two storage locations.
We have a bike storage area here. We have bike racks in this area of the garage as well. So, the bike room um sometimes we do some amenities, some repair tools, some things in there that that help. Uh >> and just and just for the record, how how many um exterior courtyards are
there? I think the development plan calls for three. >> Uh there are three exterior exterior courtyards. One is enclosed, I would say, on four sides. >> Uh the two others are enclosed on three sides. >> And uh they're each uh to contain no
less than 500 5,000 square feet. So they're compliant with the the plan. >> They are compliant with the redevelopment plan. Correct. >> All right. >> I may have missed this earlier. Is there bike storage on the front near the amenities?
>> There's uh let's go back to that level. like a bike rack >> for people visiting retail. >> We don't have bike racks right at the front. >> Okay, thank you. >> Exterior. >> Correct. >> Is there any provisions for ebike storage?
>> Uh, no, not not for ebike storage. Not separately. >> Um, >> but I I I don't imagine that it wouldn't fit within a regular bike storage, >> a separate room. >> I don't believe we're allowed to have ebike storage. Okay. Oh, there won't be any ebike storage. >> No, I don't believe that's permitted.
>> At least nobody >> I I I don't think it's permitted by the redevelopment plan. >> I thought, let me take a look. >> That's why I brought it up. >> Uh it says the bicycle storage space shall anticipate the storage of e mobility vehicles and potential risks associated with same such as batteries
overheating and causing fire damages when recharging. Um, so, uh, the redevelopment plan anticipates, uh, ebikes being charged within an actual room that can accommodate if there was a fire and not in the
resident's units. >> That would just mean we'd have to install some, uh, some electrical outlets next to those. Uh, >> well, it's only if you want them. Says, if you have them, you have to have UL tested and approved charging stations within the area. Leases have to say you can't put ebikes and charge them in your
unit, which I'm sure you don't want anyway. And all of these spaces are in the garage, which is a, you know, is a it's a fully rated structure because it's a garage. >> So the ebike storage room would be separate. >> It would not be separate from the bike
storage. It would just have outlets in it. >> We we couldn't we it would be hard for us to differentiate how many people are going to have ebikes versus regular bikes. So we would have to have outlets sufficient enough to make sure that we can cover all the ebikes.
And this may be a architectural slashtra question. Um the bikes, right? So we have roadways around the property. Um I'm sure there'll be a speed limit, what have you. Um usage of bikes. I mean, yeah, of
course, we can have racks and all of that. Uh, is it practically possible to have anybody riding the bike in and out of the complex and be still safe? Where I'm leading with this question is
uh when we see the roadways around this the in the periphery uh as well as inside uh you know the in the garage going in and out with the bike bicycle when the cars are going in and out. Are there any considerations? Number one.
Number two, the bikes are not just meant to be used within the site itself, right? So, are there any accesses to sort of, you know, special accesses to be a safe in and out for bikes? >> So, we do have a separate access for the
bike room. >> The bike room has separate access. So, it's they're not utilizing the the the vehicular garage uh access points um on site. They have there's plenty of sidewalks on site to walk your bike down
to a rideway and then bike on to the next location. Um, you know, biking is it it's as relatively safe on this site as it is on any site uh across Livingston.
We don't have any bike lanes on our in our thing, but we do have sidewalks. And if someone is unsure of themselves and doesn't feel like biking through the parking lot, they can always walk their bike down the sidewalk until they feel they're in a safe spot, >> which is where I I was leading with my question that are there any bike safety
sort of bike lanes or safe passages for the bikes to go in and out >> uh like I said, they could take them down walk them down the sidewalk if they feel more safe. I know most confident bikers will just jump on and ride right down on the road if they feel confident
to do so. >> Any other questions from >> Yeah, I have a question. >> Sure. >> Councelor, did you mention discussion of internal signage? Did I hear you? Are we going to get to that? It it's that is just directional signage um to be
installed in conjunction with the input of the board's professionals. That's for vehicular traffic. Small signs saying turn right here for this, turn. >> No, because it's it's it's it's a complicated layout and it seems to me uh
Mr. Schwarz noted there's going to be a door man. So if they're delivering my couch, they'll pull up to the front door and then you got to send them back around to someplace else where if there was a sign deliveries >> No, understood. It
>> it's a bigger issue I think than perhaps your >> I think I can answer that question. It's important that we maintain access and maintain control. So people should go to the front door. if they pull around to a loading area, if they just follow a sign to a loading area, there'll be nobody at the loading area to receive them, open
the door, let them in. So, it's better that that they're received, they're known, a visitor, they're going to be entering the building, and they're led to a a loading area. >> At the uh entrance to the main loop, it
should say, "Everybody go here, and we'll tell you where to go." I I think there's a there's a large area a drop off area there that they can pull up and get access and get direction. >> Okay. >> And I just want to make a note just for your information that uh for any
directional signage if it includes uh an advertisement kind of signage like the name of the development or something like that then it no longer becomes a directional signage. >> Understood. >> Yes.
Question the pool are established hours for the pool use. >> Um I don't do if you have hours >> 10 to six. >> Okay. Thank you. >> There was discussion of a generator. Has that been located on the property?
>> It's located on the roof. >> Access to that will be >> through a roof hatch. Oh, we have a stairwell. >> Stay this stairwell here. >> This is >> Where's the generator located?
>> That's the generator right there. >> Will there be a stand pipe at the top of that stairwell? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. I I just want to add that moveins are all scheduled and very specific directions are given to each
tenant as to which access to go through and which loading dock to go through and we even provide maps to the tenants so they can give to the moving companies. >> Yeah, I understand that. I was referring to the 500 pizza pies that'll be
delivered a week. Yeah, they generally, you know, figure it out with uh with signage and they, you know, this big canopy that they generally can see that that's the kind of in and out from the lobby. >> Any other questions from the board?
Uh any questions from the public uh as to this witness's testimony? >> Actually, can I just ask >> one additional question? Um, I'm sorry. This might have been covered at the prior hearing where Andrew was here. The front yard setback, uh, was that the average the average required was 15
feet. Uh, was it 7.8 ft proposed? >> Checking. >> Checking just because if there's another deviation, I want us to have it on the record. >> 7.8 ft. >> Okay. So that would be an additional just for your information additional deviation. The redevelopment plan
anticipated an average front yard setback of 15 ft uh just um to provide additional seating if there was like a cafe or some sort of use and they're proposing about a 7.8. >> Oh, you're right. I'm sorry.
>> It's okay. Okay. Shall be staggered with a setback at least 15 ft from the property line and creating an average of 5T. So was there staggered >> areas of at least 15 >> the dining areas?
>> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Am I confused? >> No problem at all. >> So I do have a quote. Go ahead. No, it's okay. Go ahead. You go. >> Sure.
>> Okay. Okay. Go ahead. >> So, one one quick question. Um, you mentioned about the grading. Um, the site itself has grading. Uh, so if I'm looking from the back um,
and versus looking at the front, am I looking at uh, fivetory from the back, uh, four from the front or vice versa? So it's it's more it's it's not as simple answer. On the left side you're looking at five. On the right side
you're looking at four >> because of the grading. >> It's parallel to Livingston Avenue. >> Correct. So as you're looking at the elevation this is the low side and the north side is the where the grade is up. So it's only four stories on the north
side, five stories on the south side. Got it. Thanks. So my question is about stories. Name and address again please. Timlin 41 Parkway. Sure. My question is about stories, right? How high like when I look it up and Google it, right? It says
stories range. How high is the rear of that structure going to be? >> So the your question is answered by the definition of height in the town is 60 ft and it's measured from average grade around. So you take the average of all
the grades around the building and you get this sort of mean line and you measure from that to where the roof is. That height is 60 feet and we comply with the ordinance. >> Right. And so >> so now if you were to look at the right the the far side of Michael can you just go back to that rear?
So that far side would be lower than that 60 ft and this side would be a little bit higher than that 60 ft. But since height is measured to the average, we have to measure from a specific point >> and that would be uh that's where we comply with the ordinance.
>> Okay. And when I think initially we had big concerns because the people living on Sherbrook I mean even if it's the pools covered right those windows are looking right out on on those on those neighbors and into the windows etc. There was discussion when it was
initially 190 units that the rear would be tiered back some way. Does that was that a shift in the plans because now it looks like it's all >> same height. >> That is not a part of the redevelopment plan. Uh any stepping in the in the rear of the but we have but we do have we do
have insets. So in other words, we don't have a wall of units >> that's along that's along this side by the way. >> That's on that side. garage. >> Oh, in this garage and we pushed it off. >> I see. Okay. Yeah. So, the step back
happens >> here at the first floor. It steps back, >> but it's still it's Yeah, but it'll still be That's 60 ft or more than 60 ft looking in, right? >> So, if you're measuring from grade the
bot that where the sidewalk is to that roof, it would be more than 60 ft. Correct. >> Okay. And what changed with the additional when we went to put the affordable housing onto this plan? What changed from the original plan to the affordable housing and being adding
those additional units? >> I I believe that there was a leg that was added to the front sort of where we created that drive under um to to add those units in. >> Okay. I just I have another question. And I
don't know if this is the right you're the right person to ask that question, but in the proposal there's language that says that um the applicant that would allow it to be deemed amended to include any additional approvals, variances, exceptions, deviations, or
waiverss deemed desirable like that if this is approved tonight or whenever it's approved then there could be additional changes made that are deemed desirable. Is that what does that mean? That that's my legal notice. Yes, that that that's my that's the legal
notice. So, what that means is that if during the course of the application there was some deviation that was either discovered during the course of testimony or that the applicant decided to propose that it would encapsulate
that. So, what you've heard tonight is the proposal. Um, this is what we're presenting to the board for consideration. Because this is a redevelopment plan, we are not permitted to change the use to exceed the density
to exceed the stories or the height requirement u without seeking an amendment to the redevelopment plan. So what you got is what you got. That that is that is it. >> And further to his point, um any any the deviations that were in the notice refer to things that came up in the course of
the hearing. For example, you heard the one about glass doors and whatever. Um If there an approval is granted tonight, whatever that approval is, that's set in stone can only be amended through an application to amend, additional notice, another public hearing. There's no subsequent changes down the road without
going through this whole process again. >> That's correct. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions from the public as to this witness? Seeing none, >> I have no further witnesses uh for
affirmative testimony on this application. I have closed out my case. Mr. Chairman, I now we're now at the point of public comment and the close out of the application. >> So now is the opportunity for um anybody to come up to the microphone to speak against or in favor of the application
uh under oath. Uh so this would be uh your opportunity to do so. If anybody has anything they want to say just, you know, any general comments uh against the application or in favor of the application, this is the time. >> Welcome back.
>> 41 Sher Parkway. >> Thank I just um you know, as you know, in the fall of 2023, many residents, including my wife and myself, spoke to the town council at town council meetings and signed a petition asking that the proposed project be scaled
back. The 195 units, residential units, and 60 foot height that were ultimately approved already far exceeded the typical density and height standards of Livingston Avenue. I understand because redevelopment that it's not considered a
variance but or a devian but it kind of opens up the floodgates, right? Um while we were disappointed that these community concerns were not fully addressed at this time, we're at least reassured by the council's decision to require that the tallest portions of the
building be set back. At least that was my understanding um from existing residential properties. Now that the site will also include special needs and affordable housing, which we fully support, it is even more important that the overall number of units be reduced and that the height remain restricted,
particularly near neighboring homes, not increase to accommodate the affordable housing. Adding 31 units to this lot for affordable housing and special needs should require the market rate units be reduced by 31 to 164 units. Increasing the size or scale of
the development beyond what was approved would only worsen the concerns voiced by the community last fall, including the environmental impact, impact on infrastructure, and the inevitable increase in dangerous traffic to surrounding neighborhoods. We are especially troubled by the language, but
you guys explained to me that I guess you still have to come back as far as if there's any major deviants that are happening. Okay. But we believe that the project must adhere strictly to the terms approved in the fall of 2023 with 195 units, maximum height of 60 ft, and
appropriate setback from residential property lines. This development already represents a significant departure from the character and scale of the surrounding area. Any further increase in height or density would wholly inapprop would be wholly inappropriate and detrimental to the community. We
urge the planning board to uphold the commitments made in 2023 and to reconsider perhaps reducing some of the plan. Thank you. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Any other members of the public wish to
make a sworn statement for or against the application? Uh seeing none. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, members of the board, and I also thank uh the members of the public who have come forward with some very thoughtful
suggestions. Uh just briefly, this project has been long in the making. Uh we do appreciate all the time and attention that this board, this community has given to this application. I think we have proposed a uh wonderful reuse of a site which is lawn laying
vacant or not vacant but underutilized and or utilized in an inappropriate fashion. and uh we do look forward with your blessing to move forward with the revitalization of this property which is a benefit to the community and to this site in whole and we respectfully ask
for your approval of the application with the minor deviations that have been requested this evening. I thank you for your time and attention. >> Uh thank you the parties having had opportunity to make closing statements. It appears to the chair that the applicant, all interested persons, and
the board members have had reasonable opportunity to be heard and that the evidentiary record of this hearing ought to be closed. Absent objection and in the absence of any motion for a continuence, the evidentiary record is closed and no further testimony or evidence shall be heard or received. Um,
you know, the members of the board have the opportunity to state their and discuss their views. Um and um you know and as we complete our discussion um you know we can proceed in one of two ways. Either a motion to approve or disapprove or to give non-binding guidance to our
attorney to prepare a resolution for consideration um at u at a future meeting with the hearing continued uh to uh you know consider that resolution once uh we've given non-binding non-binding guidance to our attorney. So, I'll turn it over to uh the board
for discussion. >> Um if I may, Mr. Chairman. First, um I'd like to thank all the residents who came out who came out initially and and heard, you know, expressed their concerns and and I think a lot of those were taken into account. I'd certainly also like to uh recognize Mr. Orth, Mr.
Schwarz, your entire team for putting together a very uh you know complete and professional uh presentation answering all the questions and really working with us to address a lot of those community needs. Uh in terms of the size of the project, I think when even before you were involved when I was a first
approached with this, it was 380 units. So it did come down considerably um to the general Mr. Develin. would note the original redevelopment plan um provided the opportunity for the affordables go off site but still also provided the opportunity for them to stay on site so
that um what they did now was not an expansion of the plan. Unfortunately, those plans to do it offsite did not work out but even incorporating them inside they still had to stay within the same heights, the same setbacks, the same bulk whether those units were in or not. So bring those units back did not
make the building any closer to any property lines, did not make it any higher. Um and uh there was some confusion but the redevelopment plan does provide and their plan did provide that there is that step back in the back. Um any portions up to 30 feet have
to be 80 feet from the residential property line. Anything above 30 feet has to be 100 feet from the property line and the plans do comply. That was the that step back that you talked about. So they that was honored. Um, again, I I it's, you know, it's a situation we we um and we say it all the
time and and certainly Councilman Batani can attest to this. We we were, you know, you're dealt with having to deal with all these affordable housing needs. Uh, we tried to do the best that we can to find projects that fit. This is a a property that I think everyone can agree needed something to be done there because it's in bad shape. So, just
overall, um, I I I appreciate it. Uh, I would make a motion. I think because of the number of uh conditions and deviations that have been in play, I think the best move is to go with a non-binding guidance so the attorneys can all work out the exact language of the resolution and we vote on that. Uh but I would support that the conditions
I note are the uh commitment to clean and clear the existing and remaining veget, you know, any existing and remaining vegetated areas. They'll clear out any dead trees and clean it all up. uh installation of the fence uh evaluate and include evergreens where feasible uh to provide more year- round buffer.
Deviations that I had were to permit doors on dens condition on them being translucent, glass, see-through. Um and I I would I could support given uh the measures uh being taken to and as described by Mr. Schwarz to ensure that bedrooms are you know dens don't become
bedrooms. Uh I would support the deviation the minor deviation on the number of dens. So with that couple of others, you know, no the and this just and again we'll go through um you know the transcript just to make sure that we catch them all. Some of the others were no >> mic.
>> Oh, sorry. Um, you know, the um no uh you know, no no uh no left out you know, you know, in the uh uh this the southern >> northern >> northern driveway. Northern driveway. >> Um uh you know the on-site management
will monitor all the the drop offs. Um >> let's see. And there were there were a couple u head in parking in the back, >> right? um the stand pipe by the generator, the pool hours, those sorts of things. >> She's got the list >> wall for the pool.
>> Wall behind the pool. I think it wasn't on the drawing. We should we should add that asation. >> So So I will um um I I will second that motion. If anybody else has any thoughts, any discussion? >> I would just like to add uh that this is
this is not this is not an easy thing. Absolutely. And I think over the years uh the residents have come up come to the council meetings have voiced their concerns. Uh I think each one of the members sitting here uh of course except for Barry but I think we are residents
and also be part of this. Um so I I absolutely thank the residents who have come here and have voiced their concerns. Uh it's it's important that we remain engaged as a as an active community. uh I think from the team's perspective who have presented uh last
time and this time I agree with Barry it was a very professional welldesigned and sort of they were readily answering questions and I noticed that where they were ready to add deviation sort of additional uh clauses to to to sort of adjust the plan accordingly including
the safety concerns on traffic what have you. Um so yes I agree with with Barry that let's let's work out on the details. Um and these deviations are important. Sorry this I keep on using the word deviations. These are the conditions the stipulations are very
important. I think let's have that in in place. Uh and and then proceed from there. Thank you. >> Yeah I support the uh >> microphone >> non-binding resolution. >> Microphone >> green. I support the idea of a
non-binding resolution. There was an awful lot of material discussed tonight and it would be a good opportunity to review it again, take a look and uh make sure we all come out on the right side. So, thank you,
>> Mr. Chairman. This is uh this is uh been going on for five or six years and I think legally there could be 500 or 600 units. So coming down to 220 something is is 26 is is certainly um re you know
incredibly reasonable and generous of the of the builder. Um I just drove down north by Northfield and South Livingston Avenue and that was also a big project that we approved and actually looks very beautiful and I think it made that whole area look very nice. I think this looks very beautiful. I think this is going to
be a nice addition to the area. I think everything's been done to protect the uh the residents and I think maybe even we'll get some speed bumps on Sherbrook Parkway out of this, you know, if we could. So, uh I think uh it's it's going to when it's done, it's going to be uh
it's going to be very beautiful and I I support it and uh non-binding guidance in favor. >> Anything else? Okay, great. Um uh Jackie, when will that be uh on? >> Uh Mr. Chairman, I can list this for our
meeting on September 2nd. >> Mr. Chairman. Yeah. Is that is that enough time? >> Oh, I'm sorry to interrupt. Just >> typically um I'll defer to Mr. Valario, but certainly within the board's discretion to um direct the board
attorney to adopt a um to prepare a resolution, but typically there is a um voice call or a roll call vote um to direct the board attorney to adopt the resolution. Seems to be in favor >> subject to a subsequent vote at another meeting. >> Yeah. No. Yeah. We already made the
motion and seconded. I'm just trying to get timing. >> Yes. Yes, sir. Uh this how's this is a second reasonable or not? >> Well, I will do my best to >> So we'll we'll list it for the second if we end up having to carry it again.
>> Two more two weeks after I can't get and I'll work I'll work with you to get it. >> Thank you, Mr. Vario. >> Yeah. So we'll uh we'll list it for the second if u just you know it is it is August. Uh people are away. It's sometimes tough this time of year. >> Uh but uh we
>> I've heard rumors of such things. Yeah, >> we're not away. We're here. >> So, if um you know, we we'll list it for the second. Hopefully, we can get it done for the second, but if not, we'll just you'll carry it for one more meeting. >> Jackie, you want to take a roll call on this?
>> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe that was a motion by Mr. Lewis. >> Yes. >> With you you as a second, Mr. Chairman. >> Or Mr. Lewis. >> Yes. >> Mr. Fernandez. >> Yes. >> Mr. Ratner. >> Yes. >> Mr. Righter >> didn't I didn't get that.
>> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Rber, >> yes. >> Miss F. >> Yes. >> Mr. Duffford. >> Yes. >> Mr. Batani. >> Yes. >> U Miss Bishnu is voting for Vice Chair Santo. >> Yes. >> Uh Miss Connor is voting for absent member Diner.
>> Yes. >> Motion carries. Thank you. >> Thank you all. Thank you for everybody to coming out. Uh we we appreciate your input. Uh you know getting public input I think makes project better. uh and thank you uh uh for uh you know the presentation and uh you know thank you to all the experts. >> Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank you
members of the board. Appreciate your time. really.