##VIDEO ID:cgVY5Qgx5C4## a regular meeting of livon planning board and notice of this meeting has been published in accordance with the open public menance act thank you can you please take the role Mr Ratner he's here Mr Lewis here miss coochi here Mr Mard here Mr Fernandez here that represent our Quorum tonight we do have our board attorney Mr Valerio uh thank you and uh if you can please uh call the first matter the matter that's scheduled for this evening is preliminary and final site plan for 107 East Mount Pleasant Avenue block 1512 Lot 12 application number 2024 4-54 PFS PV e EAS Livingston LLC located in the B1 Zone District uh thank you uh so welcome everybody and just to review the general procedure for tonight's hearings hearing uh the applicant is represented by an attorney who will explain the application the applicant's attorney will call one or more witnesses to give sworn testimony and support of the application members of the board may ask the witness questions and when the attorney for the applicant has no more questions for a witness interested parties in favor of or in opposition to the application may ask questions of the witness about the witness's testimony when all the applicants Witnesses have testified and if there is an entity or group formally appearing as a party in support of or in opposition to the application that party May call witnesses when all the witnesses of all the parties have been heard members of the public may give sworn statements for or against the application so uh thank you if you could enter your appearance for the record thank you thank you Mr chairman my name is Thomas troutner I'm an attorney from the law firm of Kaza shenan and Gia tamasi here on behalf of the applicant thank you um it's all yours thank you so we're here this evening as been described uh for uh preliminary and final major San approval seeking also some bulk variances uh to modify an existing Car Wash uh provide vacuum stall spaces and improve site circulation on the property which is located at 107 East Mount Pleasant Avenue currently designated as Lot 12 block uh 1512 in the tax maps of the township of Livingston uh the property is located in the B1 General business district it's presently developed with a one and twostory multi-tenant commercial building and a car wash building which are all going to remain uh car washes are conditionally permitted uses in the B1 Zone and we believe we meet the conditions for the use um we are seeking some bulk variances which are identified in the board professionals um of planner specifically report um uh particularly related the parking stall Dimension and signage and we'll get into that with our testimony of our uh professionals um we have with us tonight uh three Witnesses uh although maybe only two are necessary we have uh Lawrence Kakui who's a representative of the applicant EAS Livingston LLC we have Robert fud from Dynamic engineering he's our several engineer as well as our professional planner and we have Corey Chase from Dynamic engineering our traffic engineer if the board uh deems necessary that it wants to hear some some traffic testimony uh so Mr chairman with your permission I would seek to swear in uh Mr Kaku uh just as a fact witness and really just to give an overview of who the applicant is and why we're here sure and then before we start there was a um uh environmental impact statement waiver application and I think the uh uh the engineer the township engineer recommended uh approving it is there any objection to approving the waiver uh seeing seeing none uh thank you okay thank you Mr chairman uh so with that uh uh Mr sure is here so would seek to have him sworn in raise your right hand please you swear the testimony given this matter will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes please give us your full name and spell your last name for the record Lawrence ceri last name is KH a k s h o u r i Mr ker could you briefly just give the board an overview of your relationship with the applicant Your Role there and um and a little bit of the background of the company and why you're uh company's here tonight as an applicant seeking site plan approval for this car wash facility sure so good evening everyone um I'm one of the principles of EAS Livingston LLC where our company is called Express autop Spa um our company our our focus is we acquire existing full service car washes in New York and New Jersey um typically they are more run down in need of you know capex and refurbishment um where we went upon acquisition we come in we invest in capex and Technology to renovate automate and refurbish the the the the existing car washes um in all of our locations our goal is to improve site circulation um and also improve the customer experience um namely in the customer getting the biggest um advantage to the customer in our model is um the customer weight time is reduced significantly um and we also have a monthly membership model um that we provide to the to the um to customers where they can for one low monthly price um use the car wash as many times as they want a month um and so we pride ourselves on really being passionate about what we do we run the company as a as a family business that's how we we look at it and so every decision is really scrutinized we put a lot of time and effort in um in all of our locations and um one thing that we we we buy locations in in different demographics in different areas in New Jersey and so we really mold each location to that specific Township um and we're very excited about this location um and you know excited to be a part of the Livingston community no further questions for uh is the um the model that you have that looking at it before the maybe somebody will get into it in testimony later on um the um um uh the vacuums uh when are they operational they're operational only during business hours okay all right and I guess we'll hear more about that later on okay absolutely great thank you are you currently the operator of this car wash or are you a contract purchase or which oh in terms of your relationship to the site yeah we're under contract so we don't currently own it any other questions thanks thank you you move on to your next witness then great thank you I'm not sure if there any questions to the public but I um assuming probably not but I didn't see any are there any uh I didn't see anybody but are there any uh questions for this witness uh from members of the public uh seeing none thank you perfect thank you next I would call up our uh civil engineer and planner Robert fud Mr chairman with your permission I'd I'd like to have Mr fruit sworn in and then we I'd seek to qualify him as a expert both as a civil engineer and as a professional planner engineering and planning engineering and planning you raise your right hand please you swear the testimony you're about to give in this matter will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do please give us your full name and spell your last name for the record Robert fud FIS and Frank R eud professional address is dynamic engineering 1904 Main Street in Lake Como New Jersey Mr fruit if you would uh can you give the board a brief overview of your uh educational and professional background that would uh seek to qualify you in expert in both civil engineering and planning uh certainly so I have a Bachelor of Science degree in civil engineering from Lehigh University uh that was over 30 years ago I've been practicing uh civil engineering and plan design uh for since that point um licensed since 1999 uh in New Jersey and several other states in the region I've testified uh as an engineer and been accepted as a planner uh as an engineer in over 100 municipalities throughout the state actually my first time in Livingston so happy to be here tonight uh for my first time as a planner I am a licensed professional planner by examination I have been accepted as a professional planner and dozens of municipalities throughout the state any questions from the board uh thank you the board accepts you as an expert in engineering and planning thank you so uh Mr fory if um if you would can you uh give the board an overview of the of the site uh and um there's a I believe in the uh the folder that's marked exhibits yes we have some pre-marked exhibits uh the first one is exhibit A1 it's a it's a surrounding area exhibit and I'll let Mr Frey describe it that came back up uh okay so thank you this is A1 it's entitled surrounding area exhibit uh it has today's date 12324 for Preparation uh what you see here is uh the site in the surrounding area from a Google uh map from the spring from April of this year uh you can see Route 10 runs east to west through the middle of the page North is at the top uh Livingston Avenue Route 10 just on the left side of the page so that gives you some reference uh we're a little bit to the east here um about a quar mile east of of that intersection uh again at that existing uh retail area um you can see in the blue lines are the Zone lines throughout here from our site to the east along Route 10 is the commercial Carter of the B1 Zone uh and multiple various uh retail uses within that area as you extend up and uh to Livingston Avenue uh to the north uh felwood drive and Glendale Avenue uh and the residential zones here and the R4 Zone surround the property to the north uh as you go east on Route 10 uh various mix of of commercial uh uses as it transition into some more residential and again opposite uh Route 10 uh more of the B1 uh band of commercial uh along Route 10 with some residential uh to the east uh and Beyond uh the property is outlined in yellow here that is block 15 12 Lot 12 107 East Mount Pleasant Avenue again it's in the B1 Zone which is a general business district uh and it is about 2.3 Acres uh in area and I'm going to now go into this is A2 which is an aerial map exhibit we've now zoomed in a bit uh to get a better idea of what the existing conditions look like uh this is a little bit different aerial image this was taken in uh May of 2023 uh what we did here was we went back about a year and a half to when the U Car Wash operational get a little better idea of seeing where the cars stack and how the circulation Works um so same orientation North is at the top of the page you can see Route 10 towards the bottom again the yellow outline uh is the property about 2.3 Acres um again there number of of users within this building it's a multiple story building about 13,000 440 Square ft along the front of the site on the Frontage here uh with various retail office and restaurant uses in that area they're all uh existing uh permitted uses um the back here as I'm circling the back portion of the building is the car wash uh that is about F 5200 5,300 Square F feet uh in area and that presently runs circulation wise in an east to west Direction so as you're looking at the page it's right to left is the flow through that car wash tunnel uh and that's uh unique uh to what we're doing here uh the circulation on site is counterclockwise so coming in from Route 10 you have an entrance on the east side circulate around the back of the building uh and then you would come out uh to Route 10 again on the west side of the building so generally a one-way uh counterclockwise circulation around the building the car wash follows that uh east to west circulation through the tunnel what that does is it creates the stacking for the car wash along the east property line you can see several cars here uh stacked up in a q Lane backing up towards Route 10 you've got parking here um for the epies restaurant uh that is open that area you can also see that majority of the parking lot is all open pavement uh there's no Islands no Landscaping no uh breakup in that pavement there so it's an extensive uh portion of asphalt throughout that area uh in total there's 113 parking spaces uh delineated on the site today uh within that area uh it's generally a flat uh site uh General topography runs from uh Northeast to Southwest towards Route 10 uh the site is generally elevated relative to the adjacent residential uses uh I don't have exact elevations of the homes there but by Eye I'd say about the second floor of that looks at the fence so those homes are much uh lower than the site they won't have any sight line into the activity uh on the site today uh or in in the future uh there's also limited drainage on site today uh just a few uh inlets mostly located closer to Route 10 uh on the site right now utility servicing uh the site water sewer electric and gas the car wash today operates on a well uh and that will uh continue uh in that capacity in the future uh and that is uh essentially again the existing conditions I'm going to now uh move in and start talking about the proposed conditions and we have here the site plan rendering exhibit A3 with today's date 12324 this is based upon the site plans that are dated 924 of 2024 again the same orientation uh as uh previous with Route 10 at the bottom of the page you can see the surrounding area and you can see the improvements that are now proposed uh on the site again the building is the same we are not changing the footprint of the building at all we're not changing anything with the uses in the front of the building the only change is the uh Car Wash uh at the rear of the building primary function here is we're going to reverse the circulation in the car wash so the cars will now go through uh west to east through that wash what that does is allow us and you can see on the plan here a circulation Lane that wraps around the back of the building and gets the queueing for the car wash out of the circulation uh area for uh the rest of the development there's about 20 I believe 21 or 22 car stack in that area so more than enough uh in fact uh sufficient for the conditional use standards uh for that stacking uh for that to work and I'll go into that in a little bit more detail I just want to get the the board oriented uh to the site other improvements that are proposed here uh throughout our reorganization of the parking in the Southeast Corner in front of the epies restaurant again organizing that parking keeping it separate from the drive a so there's some delineation uh for safety and circulation um and traffic patterns and then you'll circulate around the back of the car wash area there are some parking spaces along the rear of the lot that will remain uh in that two-way circulation aisle there and then as you come to the uh west side of the building much of that parking and circulation is the same uh we are improving you can see the darker area here with some handicap parking spaces we are improving the handicap parking on site so that the spaces are compliant uh with Ada code um as this board may be aware the uh Car Wash is a conditional use uh in the B1 Zone there are total seven conditions uh that are applicable here all of those conditions are satisfied uh with this uh with this site plan including separation of any outdoor activities such as the vacuums from a residential property line and which is that they must be in excess of 40 ft uh further uh the bulk standards uh for the B1 zone are satisfied uh coverages setbacks all of those are satisfied with this application in fact the coverage by the addition of the landscape Island throughout the site we reducing the impervious coverage by over 6% on site uh in an effort to improve uh the Aesthetics in and around especially the car wash and the entrance area uh by adding those islands uh not only Aesthetics but uh safety improvements for circulation uh the question that came up for the applicant about the Vacuums at the rear I'll get into that uh briefly here there are 15 vacuum stalls located north of the drive-thru que separated from that queue uh separate from that area that'll have an entrance uh to that area uh from the North Drive aisle so operationally what's going to happen here a car would pull into the site get into the queue uh as uh the appli mentioned as uh there are two lanes there will be a members Lane and a um non-members Lane that will allow members uh quick access through you'll read a fob the gate will go up uh and you'll be able to continue through the queue uh non-members will have a uh screen where they can select what their services are uh and still pay U with a cashless system uh to get through the car wash but everything is meant to speed up that movement um also with the vacuums removed that's not happening in the car wash queue that helps again speed up the queue of the car wash activity by removing that vacuum from uh the beginning uh activities as a a more traditional older Car Wash might have so you're going through the payline you're circling around and now you're going uh West East through the car wash uh with really your only hesitation is uh the queue of cars which is moving much quicker uh without the vacuuming as you come out of the car wash you can now proceed uh around uh the back of the site and into uh the vacuum areas uh the vacuums are all um uh operated by single turbine and uh pneumatic tubes that will perform the vacuuming uh that is located in this tan area on the east or right side uh of the Stalls that Services all the vacuum stations again as was indicated those vacuums are only operated uh during uh the hours of business uh so and they are uh observed by managers and staff so it is reserved for uh paying customers uh of the site uh generally they're 8:00 am. to 5:00 P p.m in the winter and 600 PM uh in the summer so really trying to stay within daylight hours an extra hour or so in the summer that's all week that is all week yes so I believe the the condition use standards limited to 8 to8 and we don't expect at this point uh operation that it would go past six um I will uh there were some questions about the vacuum operations question are they selfservice the vacuums yes they are so there's going to be a trash bin at each station so if you emper your car you can put the trash in a bin uh by the base of the vacuum and then you operate the vacuum on your own can one the vacuum sorry can can a customer buy the vacuum service without a wash so the vacuums are not uh going operated so that there's is no purchase of a vacuum so you have to go through go through the wash it's just what we've done is we've taken that out of the operation of the circulation to speed up the process and reduce the q line so how how will you address just people that pull it in there and get a vacuum and leaving without getting a car wash so that'll take me to and that's a good question uh discuss briefly the the employees on site typically there'll be three or four employees on site uh there'll be there one at the entrance to the tunnel there'll be one at the exit of the tunnel uh and I guess that's also important to note that this is a a because it is full serve you'll be uh moving through the tunnel in your car you're not getting out of the car walking through the lane as you would in an in an older Car Wash uh so you're not getting out you're not going through that's not slowing down the process either so there'll be an employee at each end of the tunnel the there will be an employee at the pay area to help answer any questions uh and uh keep traffic moving through the pay area and then there will be a manager so between the employee at the pay area who has line of sight on those vacuums and the manager who will be circulating through the car wash area at all times they'll be able to oversee those vacuums and make sure that they are cars that are coming out if your car's wet you're probably just came out of the car wash if your car car that's leaving the car wash and I don't know if you're the right person for this um from the looks of it it doesn't look like it's set up a lot of car washes will have like three or four guys with a box of towels and hand dry your whole car that's not going to happen here you just get blown dry and leave or I don't know maybe you're not the guy to answer that yeah go ahead yeah go ahead yeah you're still under own oh he he's still under own so we will have the employee at the exit of the tunnel will give a little bit of a touchup with a with a towel okay but the only cars that can get in the only way you could get into the vacuums is after the tunnel if you if if the car goes through the tunnel it's wet and clean right so if if a car that's not wet and not clean goes into the vacuum St then you know that they didn't go through the tunnel and then after the vacuums the only way to circulate from there is to go off the property so that's the way you that's the way we can monitor it okay and then in the event the um the queue were to get all the way back and you have a pretty lengthy queue behind the building but if were to wrap around the driveway I assume the employee there would sort of direct traffic to make sure somebody exiting the car wash like if the if the queue wrapped all the way around to where it was heading now towards living to Northfield in theory the person exiting the car wash trying to make a left there could have a conflict with the queue right yeah I mean right now that that would be over 21 that would be over 21 cars in the queue not to mention the cars in the situation having a guy there would help yes there is there is an employe there this guy out or whatever okay I I don't given the the circulation time through there and the the amount of expected customers per hour we don't expect that that that would be a problem that's one of the reasons we revers the circulation to avoid that that uh conflict does your service include interior cleaning of the windows and and the interior of the car no so the the the model is now that it's basically a self you do it on your own so the customer stays in the vehicle throughout the entire experience at the end of the at the end of the tunnel with the new technology in the tunnel the car comes out now pretty much dry based on the new enhan enhanced technology and equipment in the in the tunnel um and it also has Tire dressing applied all of that so once the car is out of the tunnel it's basically clean and almost dry we give a little bit of a touchup with the employee at the exit and then at that point if the customer wants to do the vacuuming on their own they can go to the self Ser vacuums otherwise they can leave the lot we don't do any interior glass or or or any of the Interior on our own how long does it take for a queue of 20 cars to get through the tunnel if it's full if if there are actually 20 cars there what I can say is it depends I can let Rob answer that a little bit better but it depends if you're on the member lane or non-member Lane on a this tunnel is about what 160 ft I think it would take about 3 minutes to get through the tunnel itself um but the circulation is is I think Rob can answer that a little better uh yeah so I mean we haven't haven't done the exact math but with several minutes per car wash you're going to move a number of you three minutes a wash you're going to move do you have a similar operation in any of your other car washes yes and do you have a estimate or have you calculated the amount of time of customer stay at the vacuum station we limit it to no more than 10 minutes per per uh customer so we have 10 minutes so we have signage we have and and that's the role of the manager is to kind of circulate around the site oversee the operations and make sure that no one's abusing um the vacuums or or anything like that and so I'm busy days then you know we make sure to enforce that the vacuum station is just vacuuming there no other supplies to clean your windows or whatever that's correct just vacuuming purely vacuuming vacuuming and then air hoses as well for the M air air for the mats as well we have mat racks so if you want to take your mat out and and you we have air hoses for that as well and you said that when the car comes through the car wash it's pretty much dry what is pretty much mean I don't have a percentage on it but to give you not to bore you with the details but I mean do I have to bring a towel no no no once once your car is out of this lot you are good to go can you ask oh I have a question I'm sorry um can you just show us the flow in other words when where the cars come in how they get through the tunnel and then how they get up into the vacuum area I'm having a sure uh uh just they come off at Route 10 so I'm zoomed in a little bit just to make it a little bit easier to see and can you all I don't know if you can follow the mouse okay so as you come in off Route 10 and and any car coming into the site is going to come in off of Route off the east side uh entrance from Route 10 uh you'll come in and you will turn left into the Q Lane past the exit to the wash there'll be two lanes uh the first Lane is for non-members the second lane is for members and you'll uh stack there that's where you see 21 cars delineated that's 21 cars of of stacking outside the wash uh for reference the condition use standards uh that we have in town uh request 10 cars stacking outside the wash so we have more than double that uh on this facility um so as you come up you can see all but five of those cars are behind the pay station so this area here between car six and seven is where you would have a touchcreen pay pad and or if you're a member you have a a fob that you'll uh press and that will open a gate and you'll proceed through uh into the wash several minutes through the wash as you come out uh you'll turn left coming out again circulating traffic around uh and you'll be able to come to the rear of the site at which point you can enter uh the vacuum area uh having been a customer at the car wash 15 stalls here uh for the vacuum should be more than enough given the traffic coming through the area oh and uh sorry to interrupt you rob the U I was going to have alerts the app could speak to one issue in terms of the vacuum there is a flex uh it's called a flex Car Wash so there's an option for uh a customer to I'll let him speak to it to to pay to have an employee vacuum the car so in some of our locations the demographics are you know better off than in others and so um in some areas customers are more hesitant to do the vacuums on their own and so we let the customers basically tell us if that is high in demand or not and so when we initially open we're going to be running it as an Express Car Wash if the customers start requesting for our employees to do the Interiors for them because the demand is extremely high then what we then what we typically do is we add this service which is basically an alart service where if either a member or a paying customer wants our employees to do the Interiors for them for a one-time fee we can do that for them now the because it's going to be based on demand the when we when we said our initial employee count is going to be three to four employees that was based on that based on keeping it as an Express if we decide to do the flex later based on demand then we may have to we may that that we may inre increase the employee count depending on the demand and if if you got to that point that service would be provided in one of the vacuum stalls we would Bas that same location we would we would probably Reserve like three or four or two of the of those vacuum STS be within that area corre not somewhere else yes that's correct now if a um a customer for for the restaurant or one of the stores on that end of the building if the parking spaces along the side are full what are there 12 or so there you're on the on the east side here yeah yeah okay if they're all full and I want to have lunch there so I have I guess two options either work my way to the back of the lot to the north side of the lot or go all the way around and park on the west side of the lot is is there a sidewalk across the front of the building number one so they yes they can number two if I pull into the restaurant where I think I'm going to park and it's full I work my way back across your driveways park there then I walk back across driveways again is there any provision so that it's safe for somebody to walk from that back corner of the lot up to the front so we we definitely took that into consideration we know there's a number of uses here and different types of customers coming and going uh keep in mind the existing condition today uh there are a limited number of spaces on the east side of the building and if for so for the same condition if you don't find a space there you proceed around to the back or to the west side of the building the difference is today you're essentially in the middle of the queue of the car wash so the benefit of what we're doing here with this application I apologize for the record I'm I was on A2 I'm now back on A3 uh the benefit of what we're doing here is we're defining the car wash Cube behind the building so that if you were to go to a parking space at the rear of the building or be on the west side of the building yes the the sidewalk uh is there today and remains to allow you to walk along the front of the building or up the side of the building but the area that is the car wash que and the vacuum area is now protected by curb and these landscape Islands so it separates the car wash activity from the surrounding driveways uh so as you did today or as you would in in many shopping centers yes you would walk through uh a drive VI in a small parking lot to get to the door uh but it it is as it is today but I think it's better than it much better than it is today because we have the car wash traffic separated through the island that are being provided how many parking St how many parking stalls are in the restaurant area uh on the uh East Side there are 20 spaces and can you just show the circulation in and out of that area uh sure so what we've done there and I'll just zoom in I'll make it a little bit easier so we have uh two ways in and out so there's no dead end there uh but again it's separating it from the entrance so you've got two handicap spaces uh defined here by one of the doors uh and then a series of parking it's all 90° parking 24t aisles uh they're 18t spaces that have the necessary twoot overhang on this side uh so they're cant but it's all 24t aisles for circulation and then again if you're leaving that parking field you're going to turn left uh and go towards the rear of the building sheet um four shows three handicap spaces I believe uh sheet four is the demolition plan so that's the existing condition okay so we've modified and we've we've taken handicap spaces and put them even so there's two on each side so that's the difference from today's what it looks like today to what it'll look like after we're done did you give us the total parking spaces after this is completed uh after we're done there will be 83 spaces and that is uh consistent with what the ordinance requires based upon the combination of uses have you considered some oops have you considered some markings on the driveway somewhere so that if I'm in that northeast corner my indication is to walk right through the car towards across the car wash to the restaurant because just based on experience those spaces are going to fill up at the restaurant and it just seems to me it's a it's a little bit of a maze to figure out how to get there and maybe some markings on the driveway to show a crosswalk or something might be appropriate uh it's something we could look into um personally I believe that by delineating the car wash area and traffic and putting some Landscaping in there it will separate that so pedestrians would avoid it but I think it's something we could we could look at with your engineer and planner because you've got traffic coming off Route 10 into your queue through the car wash and then back out again to get into the vacuum area yes so your your customers are twice around that outside Loop uh well they're not twice around the loop they're they're they're circulating through the car wash but they're the point of entry into the car wash and exit from the car wash are near each other so they're really only doubling for those couple feet there and the existing conditions I don't know if you can pull that up on what it was 8182 right along the east immediately in front of the restaurant I think I counted 11 spots and you're going to have 20 in that area y but then above the 20 you're further away so you have more spaces closer M but then above that it's a little further right is that the way yeah the the spaces that are against the back of the building uh these will be taken by the car wash que correct okay uh but you're correct more spaces near uh the immediate entrance and less conflict I don't know whether you're you would be the guy to ask but I'll ask it anyway and if somebody else can testified have the uh other tenants in the building are they Weare of this plan and any feedback any concerns does anybody know they know about it or like the the deli or I don't know if anybody giv in a position to testify to that so I can let Lauren speak to I know the the the owner obviously of the site consented to the to the application that submitted to that but all I know is the landlord has approved this I'm not aware if the landlord has told the tenants yet not sure the um the driveway entrance the the driveway to the West is that both Ingress and egress uh it's not delineated I believe the general circulation here is is one way okay so but I don't believe it's all delineated it's currently it's it's currently one way that's well that's what I thought I just wanted currently it's a it's a one way both are one ways actually that was C on the east side it wasn't it's not signed so much but yeah well there is a there is on the west side there is do not enters yeah so so anybody wanting to go to the stores has to go through the bypass lane correct yes as they do today they circulate around the back of the building how how how is that one lane wide that bypass lane it is yes okay and with uh you know 20 car queuing you're not concerned and you're you know expert opinion that there's going to be any blockage of that bypass lane because that's really going to be the only way in for people that want to use any of the stores actually though so it is varying in width there uh so you can see below the car wash que it's 20 ft wide above the car wash queue it's 12T wide so the intention there is and and we believe that 21 is is more than enough the ordinance is 10 we're at 21 so we feel like we're we're very comfortable with the queuing that's provided within the car wash space but in that situation where it was just a you know snow melt or a rainy day or something and and it it's very crowded the car wash if it were to uh spill out of that area that's 20 feet wide as you come uh back towards the root 10 entrance so you could have a car queue and a car pass at the same time is the intent to have like a center line to formally divide that into it's not delineated with the center line because we don't expect it to happen at high frequency but with attendance there we would be able to whether we put cones out or guide people uh it could be managed on the um West Side on your drawing you have to zoom out a little bit there are arrows showing two-way circulation there is that intended or not it goes two-way all the way to the back Park yes because the so the parking there is 90 degrees and again if you get to a point where you get near uh Route 10 and there's not a spot we'd rather not have to go back out onto 10 and try to make a left and a left to get back in you can circulate throughout the site uh to to find Open Spaces but from 10 that's exit only absolutely yes where's the point of payment so the point of payment is between cars six and seven those are the two points of payment for each lane uh you can see the tan areas there those are concrete islands that will have the the pay Booth or pay station yes MH and the net there's a net reduction in spaces but you're still above the minimum correct so you don't need a parking that's correct that's correct and just to be clear the vacuum spots don't count as spaces right that's correct so and that's a good point there's 83 spaces on the site the 15 vacuum spaces are not within that 83 calculation correct um and I'll just go back to a couple things I want to touch on with the vacuums just because it was brought up in some of the review letters uh with regard to uh the noise from the vacuums we have manufacturer specifications from vacu Tech uh they did their own sound readings uh I'll quote them for the board uh they did readings from their equipment at 30 feet away at 38 DB uh and to give you some context the state standards uh for uh noise levels at a residential receiving line are uh 65 DB during the day and 50 DB in the evening and those hours defined is 7:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. so all of our operations are during the daytime hours which would allow which is 65 even at the nighttime of 50 we're we're at 38 uh at 30 feet away and that equipment is about 35 ft from the property line so we're very comfortable that we satisfy uh the noise standards uh from the state with that regard um we we talked about a lot of things as with through the question so I I I don't want to belabor some of the issues there are a couple things I do just want to point out uh for the board and for the record um these were brought up uh in some of the review letters from your engineer and planner uh from a grading and drainage standpoint essentially we're we're maintaining the existing patterns of drainage which is that it's going from uh north to south uh through the site We are continuing to have it move generally uh east to west across we have to get around the back of the building um there is very limited drainage infrastructure on site today so we're very cognizant to have drainage patterns uh that don't create ponding and puddling uh that's what the darker areas here are where we are uh uh modifying the pavement grades to promote positive drainage throughout that area uh as I mentioned we're reducing the impervious coverage by over 6% so from a storm water standpoint it's a net benefit by having areas of landscape and green area that will absorb groundwater and recharge that back into the ground uh with regard to Landscaping uh you see on the on uh again we're on A3 you can see on the exhibit we have uh extensive Landscaping throughout the the area where we're redoing the car wash to provide um screening uh and and Aesthetics around that area we have several trees at the north side of the vacuum station provide some shielding there uh there was a comment in I believe it was the planers review letter we will add some uh shrubs and plant material around the vacuum station here uh in order to to provide a little bit of screening for that also the entire parking area that's on the east side of the building we're going to add uh shrubs and landscape material in in that area to supplement that um the property is surrounded uh by a six- foot stockade fence that provides a screening you can see there's also uh existing vegetation around the perimeter and because of the grade change there's very little visibility if any uh from the adjacent properties uh into uh the site will there be any additional Landscaping to the north and east uh uh for uh buffering of of the residents back there there there's none proposed you can see several trees on our site throughout that area in addition to the wooded area we have nothing proposed now looking at the grade differential and the fences there today we see that there's probably minimal impact uh from it the um I think the planner had identified if I'm not mistaken two variances yes one related to the 18t parking stalls um it's pretty obvious to me looking that a lot of them have twoof foot overhangs are there any specific number that you've identified that don't have the two- foot overhang in terms of that you technically need a variance for we have yes and and excuse me so as you know the ordinance uh 9 by 20 spaces 18 is allowed if you have a twoot overhang all of the spaces have twoot overhang with the exception of six spaces uh at the far southwest corner of the property where the curb is right next to the property line uh so we can't count any overhang off the property okay so only six of the those are existing Spa I'm sorry they're existing and only six of the 85 would be very existing spaces they've been operating like that uh for many years much of that area has uh a drive a that's wider than 24 ft so we don't see any uh I don't see any concern with um with maneuvering around those spaces if cars were parked there the alternative would be to try to rebuild the parking along the west side would push that parking field uh further north eliminate some of the green space in that north northwest corner probably eliminate that tree that exists on Northwest West Corner which I feel is is you know an unnecessary uh modification to the plan uh where you have an existing condition that that functions well uh the the other variances are related to the signs uh and I'll I'll go through those right now we have uh there are four signs related to uh the Express Auto Spot uh three of them are what we'd call W finding signs um and one is the existing sign I I'll go there first there's an existing sign uh at at the front of the site that is a small freestanding sign it's not internally illuminated it's not illuminated uh it will be repanel to to advertise and to show the Express Auto Spa uh there there's no change in that um The W finding signs are uh there are again three of them one will be as you pull into the site on the island that separates the the uh 20 parking spaces for ep's restaurant and the car wash so it'll have a left arrow and a Straight Arrow telling you where to go there uh the next sign uh will be up near the entrance to the Q Lane that'll Define that the car wash uh is Q Lane is to the left and the final sign is uh near the vacuum area identifying how to get into the vacuum area although the signs are 2 foot x 3 foot so they're relatively small at six square feet um but they do have uh the logo for Express Auto Spa that uh makes them considered signs not just internal wave finding uh so there are variances for those uh three signs there's also how how uh are they ground mounted or are they raised from the ground you said they're two footer 2X three they're raised off the ground several feet yeah so if there were land the overall height is uh I believe it's seven I believe they're five five clearance and then the two foot sign height there's seven feet five under five under clearance and then it's a two foot by two foot high by three foot wide panel that'll be a total height of seven is there a reason it have to be that high part of it allows for if there's landscaping around the base it won't obscure the sign uh for driver visibility so you're so they're 7t tall the sign sign itself the the I'm sorry I I stand corrected I apologize five total five total I had my my notes were wrong I apologize five total three clearance which makes sense because typical shrub is two to three feet high and then the two foot sign and then uh one more feature that is not does not have any of the uh branding or logo on it so it's not classified as a sign is uh an overhead clearance bar it's really as much a safety feature as anything else it's at the entrance to the Q Lanes it does Define um members and non-member Lanes but the primary purpose is to have a clearance bar so that uh you're identifying you you know before a truck comes in uh and or someone with a ski rack or bubble on top of the car before it goes through the wash so that's really a safety feature and there's no logos are branding on that and the logos on the way finding signs I I assume is necessary or desired because the multiple uses on the site so it makes it clear this is the car wash I mean if if you were the only thing on the site you wouldn't have to have the logo yeah it's a small branding I mean the entire sign is only 2x3 and you have the texts that say you know car wash or epies or whatever and okay and the the brand is slow it provides some color and it personally I think it's a little bit of aesthetic interest on a sign to rather than be black and white to have uh some some brand identification uh certainly not visible from the road not visible from the residents um just a little bit more visual cue for for what you're looking at and any they're not illuminated correct no okay correct and Mr fruit it wasn't identified as a variance by the board planner professional but the uh there's a an existing non-conformity if I as I recall with respect to uh the parking a certain parking location being 14.9 ft uh from a residential area whereas the code says 25 that's an existing corre the yes the so the buffer uh of the parking uh to the residential is uh required a 25 ft exists of 14.9 Ft so that's an existing condition that that we're uh proposing to to maintain do you have a loading area or a uh screen trash area uh so loading for the car wash itself uh is minimal they get deliveries of soap uh the only reason I'm bringing them up is is under the you know under the ordinances of loading areas required and so is in En closed trash area so if you're not going to have them I guess you'll just need be to request variances for those so and I'll I'll defer uh to the board on that just by background um there is an existing loading and trash area in the the courtyard of the building that's where the loading and trash recycling occurs today for all of the uses including the car wash so the car wash trash will go into dumpsters trash the entire site is managed by the landlord through uh the containers they in that courtyard okay so there is a loading area there is a trash area so you don't there is a loading area there okay so not going to there are no variances needed for those then okay correct go Ahad you ask are there any any signs on the building not for the wash no okay is there a sign at the entrance to the site entrance to the to the site is there a sign a sign for the car wash yes so that that's the the first sign I described and let's see if I can zoom in a little bit here so there is a sign today between the entrance and the building along the frontage uh that sign is probably about the same size as some of the directional signs that maybe a little bit larger might be you know four or five by five um that exists today uh it's not illuminated it will be repanel to to include uh branding for the express a what type of material is going to be used for that I'm not sure okay I I but it's going to be the exact same size there there's like two white posts and yeah okay so there won't be any branding sign on the car wash building itself no I thought I saw something something about stacked parking is there stacked parking on the site stacked yeah I thought I read something no okay no sometimes I interchangeably interchangeably use queuing and stacking but there's plan report maybe I'm uh Mis remembering but okay so there there is no stack parking okay and the lighting in the Park parking lot how high are those we don't have an exact measurement I would I would estimate that they're about 25 ft High um all of the lighting there is going to remain uh there is one light fixture that when we uh Define the vacuum area we have to move a fixture um I think it's about six or eight feet uh to the east in that area to just to be within the island so that because 18 foot is shielded as maximum I guess say if they're higher than that they you seeking a variance for that so I don't have an exact measure I do noce an existing condition we're not changing ing the height of the light it's just being moved well he was St the variants because of the the site plan changes particularly moving the location he's moving the location that's why that's why I'm asking for about the height yeah so how how many um how many light Poes are there that you're moving there's only one being moved just one yeah how many total are there I'm not sure off the top of my head so I guess you'll need a you'll be seeking a variance for that then that's the 18 to 25 assuming it's 25 assuming can you indicate where that particular pole is and where's being more so I'm going to start with A2 so that you can see on the plan I'll zoom in the back uh in between the spaces just to the right or east of the white car is where the pole is today as we go to A3 that spot it's being moved probably Northeast again a few feet and it it exists today it'll be proposed off the off the North edge of the vacuum stalls so it's going closer to the residence in the back back in it is going a little bit closer to the residence uh it'll be about 60 ft from the nearest residential property line uh so typically the the half foot candle influence from a light is in the neighborhood of 45 to 50 feet in either side of a typical downward facing light so we don't expect that it would have a negative impact on the residents there especially with the vegetation that's being provided around it to help provide some shielding well the vegetation will be a lot lower right the vegetation will be a lot lower than the light the vegetation will be yeah yeah on the on the west side of the building I'm sorry on the yeah west side of the building are we changing any of the parking spots to I I just want to talk about the west side for a second right there are there any any parking changes to that side of the building there are yes uh and again where are the those so I'm going to jump to A2 briefly to show what's there today there's parking facing the building you can see a lot of cars parked in this area it's really undel though uh so what we're going to do and I'll uh move to A3 you can see we're delineating spaces again we're providing curbed islands and delineation uh for spaces along the drive aisle and then within the Courtyard area uh outside of where the loading activity will occur we're providing spaces within there those would be typically available for employees out of there for a longer period of time is you're still going to be parking um in front of there's a current drug store right there are those sparking spots still remaining yes correct with the handic with the appropriate handicap seven spaces that include two of two handicap yeah can I go back to that light pole for a minute you don't know the exact height of the existing pole is that correct unfortunately we don't we don't have the specs on that are you retaining the exact same pole or are you replacing the pole Our intention is to to retain the same one so we would pour a New Foundation run conduit to it and use the same pole any thought to just make is there a reason it has to be 20 you know 25 ft High reusing the same fixture is it you know shielded from you you know the spill over or just line a sight to you know from the local you know again my concern is we it's a you know a l you we're not even quite sure the height right um you know moving it closer to the residence to the north and to the East and the impact that that might have on them just really question and I I'll gratuitously Muse out loud that the applicant I think would be okay if we were to come up with a new fixture that would be shorter in in height that'll be that'll be compliant and shielded and okay so what are you proposing as far as the height of the pole as I understand 18t 18t is the ordinance a maximum of 18 above that it's um Varian is necessary so if you R knew it with 18 then that would be you know 18 Shield to comply with the ordinance that then you don't need a variance then yeah okay we would do that perfect thank you excuse me clarify TR something you said that the position that you will move the pole to is about 30 ft from the uh residence 60 ft how far away is the um generator for the vacuums that is uh I believe it's about 35 ft well how can that I'm confused then could you point to the generator on on the uh plan please so the the vacuums off operate off a central yeah turbine so that's located on this island here oh okay okay so each of these are just there there's a a a a tu pneumatic tube that'll connect there that'll be the vacuum that's further away than the light post is going to be so I think your numbers were across there okay well we're looking at the side property you're looking at the side property yep and it's a little bit deceiving because the side property line actually diverges away from the travel Lane a little bit so as you go north it actually gets a little bit further away yeah but I think I could be wrong but the side property is more commercial than residential uh it is along Route 10 yes right and and behind uh the north side is residential which is where the land poost is going to be 30 ft from their property okay there any other questions from the board um it just then clarifying as I'm keeping track uh the variance would be uh no two foot overhang for six parking spaces along which is a pre-existing condition correct uh buffer uh from parking which again is a pre-existing condition and then the the ground mounted signs logos okay and are those your presenting those as C2 C1 I C2 I assume I don't want to assume they would be C2 variances um where and in that case uh we would look at the the positive negative criteria right so from a sign perspective uh they provide important way finding uh the uh The Branding and Logo provide some additional queuing and identification uh of the use and the way finding uh throughout the site so uh from a a municipal land use standpoint um we're still providing adequate light air and open space throughout the site we're improving circulation and I believe purpose I also to promote a desirable visual environment um throughout creative development techniques uh is uh Advanced with the the design of the signs again negative uh impact these are removed from uh Route 10 so there's no visual impact from Route 10 there's no visual impact uh from the neighbor so there in my opinion there's really no negative impacts here uh so with that I do believe that the board could approve these uh without substantial detriment to the public good um and without impairing the uh the intented purposes of the Zone plan thank you any other questions from the board for this witness before I ask the public is there any anything more from the witness that you have no uh thank you uh any uh questions from the public uh as uh for this witness as to this witness's testimony seeing none uh thank you and uh thank you thank you Mr so lastly Mr chairman we we do have a traffic engineer with us tonight I can seek to have him sworn in but I but if if you but it may or may not be necessary the I'll give the unorthodox uh you know if the board would like to hear from the why don't we just uh the experts here on and short so Mr chairman with your permission once he makes his way up I'll seek to have Corey Chase from Dynamic engineering uh sworn in and qualified as an expert in the field of uh traffic engineering you swear to testimony give this matter will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do is your full name and spell the last name and your affiliation certainly it's Corey c r y last name is Chase CHC I'm a principal with the firm Dynamic traffic Bachelor's of Science degree in civil engineering from the University of Massachusetts licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey and six other states licenses currently a good standing I've been qualified as an expert in traffic engineering before over 130 municipalities throughout the state including the township on a previous occasion I think it was during the pandemic I'm pretty sure the last time I was with you guys it was virtual so it was definitely in the co era oh well well welcome being in person definitely happy to be back any uh questions from the board uh thank you the uh board accepts you as an expert in in traffic thank you I appreciate that Mr Chase yeah if you could just give the board a very quick uh overview of the anticipated traffic and sight circulation issues that you may have looked at in conjunction with the application yes certainly our involvement in the application was to work with Mr frud as well as the applicant on uh really focusing on improving the overall site circulation and the stacking for specifically the car wash um as Mr frud noted today the existing and I'm referring to applicants A3 the existing stacking occurs in that Eastern Drive aisle so directly when you come off the Ingress from Route 10 there's approximately 180 ft of stacking before you actually get to the route 10 driveway today that can accommodate between eight and nine cars so you know with a queue of more than eight n cars you risk the potential for backing traffic actually up out onto Route 10 um and looking at the site plan with again Mr fruit and the applicant that was our primary focus on how can we remedy that situation how can we really improve that one of the primary means was to flip the orientation of the car wash so as was previously noted currently today it goes from east to west and the proposed condition will go from west to east and what that allows us to do is better delineate and have a dedicated stacking area that has more than double the current stacking capacity of the car wash previously did as well as really o improve the overall site circulation um when you access the site today and I'll go back to A2 uh there is I would call it a unique circulation pattern on the Eastern side of the building today uh you have this triangular landscaped area you also have a concrete Island which really is in the middle of the drive aisle and it's to delineate between the the car wash queue and the two-way circulation to the site um it's certainly unique and then you have a lot of unusable asphalt area so our Focus was really to to provide more parking directly adjacent to the stores uh which you heard we were able to accomplish and really provide a more dedicated circulation pattern so it's defined as customers are coming to the site whether they're going to the car wash or whether they're using the additional commercial uses um you know the site was formerly a car wash we are proposing to develop redevelop it as a car wash so from a traffic generation perspective you know they would have the same numbers as a site did previously uh what we think we're really doing here is we're pro providing a more efficient operation we're eliminating the vacuum service from the tunnel operation so that inherently just improves the efficiency of how the car wash is going to flow and function and then again as I mentioned you know with the overall circulation improvements we I think it's a significant enhancement to the site um by providing that additional parking adjacent to the building it's much better to find as well as redistributing the Ada parking as Mr frud mentioned earlier currently all the Ada parking is located on the Eastern side of the building what we're doing is we're redistributing it so there's an equal amount of ADA parking on the east and west side of the building um I don't want to belabor my testimony Mr chairman but I'd be happy to answer any questions that the board has or anything that you think I may have missed the uh Ju Just the the number under the existing conditions how many can what what's the car the approximate car number Q you can you can get between eight to nine vehicles in this area today so we're more than double that and then we're also removing it from that drive aisle so and like you heard Mr frud mentioned on the very rare occasion that you did have more than 21 cars in this Q Lane we do have the ability we have the manager we also have uh other service Personnel on site so they would be able to direct traffic to make sure it remains orderly and with the 20ft drive a that's sufficient you could in theory stack cars in this drive a and still have room to bypass that so with the manager and staff on site we would make sure that in the rare event that that was to occur that all those stacked Vehicles were to queue in an orderly fashion and allow traffic to continue to free flow thank you um any questions from the board yeah and again this was sort of touched upon um earlier in terms of pedestrian anyone parking in those rear Lots do you have a thought in terms of interacting with cars and how they safely navigate from those spaces would you envision them walking without much in the same manner that they do today only in a more direct fashion you know as I mentioned in going back to exhibit A2 there is the parking to the rear today but again it's really just an entire mass of asphalt back there so it's much less less controlled so if they're parking in here you you're navigating these d Drive aisles uh you could do it in a more direct fashion certainly but you're again you're Crossing multiple points of conflict in in really an uncontrolled manner um in the proposed condition with the curb and the landscaping that's provided that's delineating the vacuum stalls as well as the car wash parking it's going to provide a more delineated path for those pedestrians in the rear and you're removing you know the que and all those potential vehicle conflicts from interacting with that so they can continue to use the drive ISS to circulate I just think it'll be in a more direct fashion okay thank thank you let me go to that can you can you just turn your mic that's okay thanks having having eaten in that restaurant and parked in the back when they're I guess you got 15 spaces or whatever are full it's a straight shot down to the restaurant to go across the back at out to Route 10 and all the way across isn't going to work and so there there's got to be a way to figure out something safe whether it's markings on the driveway whether it's it's some sidewalk somewhere I'm very concerned about that I think we you know we certainly do provide a a safer route of travel where today you're just cutting through the parking lot I I agree that it's closer today's gone it is and that's why we look to really improve what we're doing here I know Mr frud mentioned that we'd be willing to work with with the engineer on whether we can stripe you know striped an area adjacent to the curb that kind of provides a delineated areas for pedestrians um but providing additional parking up front you know you're going to have additional stalls directly adjacent to the building there is sidewalk along all faces of the building so you will have an additional opportunity to you know park closer and have a dedicated pedestrian pathway you know to all the commercial areas within the building and again by you know providing this curving and Landscaping and really inating this area you're providing a more defined path for pedestrians to travel so I think it'll become more familiar for patrons of the building where today you you can essentially park anywhere in that rear parking lot and travel whatever path you choose to get to the building where now it'll be more defined with the curving of the grass and the delineate area for the queuing Mr I mean Mr Ratner makes actually a a valid point I and I agree with Sam you know my my guess my fear would be is that you're going to get some of these people walking through the um the vacuum they where the where the vacuums are when they parked back there they're not going to really know not to walk through the vacuum I guess my question would be any chance of putting a sidewalk on the east side somewhere on the east side over there so there is a designated walking path for on that grass STP on that grass strip or somewhere so people at least so everybody knows that that's where to walk and then they just have to CR they just have to cross over at one spot I guess that that that would be a I think an easy way like an easy way just to handle some of the concerns if possible I don't know what the actual grading is in that area um I I'll defer to Rob if there are any grading concerns obviously if you provide a sidewalk and a dedicated pedestrian path uh needs to be ADA Compliant um you know I think situations like this it's typical to walk through Drive aisles in these types of facilities it's pretty common place in commercial centers that your pedestrian the majority of your pedestrian movements occur within the actual ual parking area and again as I mentioned you know it was our when we reviewed this with M Mr fud's office in delineating this area we felt like it was going to be an improvement because it was going to provide a more defined area for those pedestrians to travel uh whereas today you know they can essentially cut through any of the parking areas that they want um but I know Mr fud's looking at it right now um it's something we're he's coming up to provide an answer um the concern from a state perspective with putting it on the East Side that's buffer area we have some flexibility with impervious coverage so we could add some of the 6% back so there there's room from a coverage standpoint to add um to add sidewalks there walkways there but that's that's the buffer area uh to the you know that that's required so we would then be creating a a variance condition right now that East line that is the existing curve today so we're we're looking to maintain that curve line I think if if we were to do something it would be more along the lines of sort of like you might see a bike path on the road where it's striped there it it's within the traveled Lane but at least it gives some delineation to it um yeah that was that was kind of where we I think we were going with our original discussion is I think we'd be amendable to providing some additional striping along this curb line here which anybody was parked in the northeast corner of the site they would then have an area that was delineated to encourage them to walk adjacent to the curb line and then be able to circulate around as you head south towards the commercial area yeah I think I think what everybody's getting at is is is just you know encouraging you know any pedestrians that park in the back from just trying to cut through the q line and I I think that's the you know where where the existing condition doesn't have that q line in the back so we can walk through without you know worrying about that so I think you know however you might be able able to delineate you know just encouraging pedestrians and look quite frankly I think if you're parking in the back and you're walking you see all these cars that are queued there you're going to go around it um but I think you can you know some you know just you know maybe encourage it so that you have don't have you know people can can kind of go off on their path uh around the building you know earlier yeah certainly and I think what we just mentioned I think by striping and delineated area adjacent to the curb and highlighting that that's the area intended for pedestrian travel would as you mentioned Mr chairman would really reinforce the fact that they should travel uh as they head south to you know sort of in a Southwest Direction against that curb line to to get to the building instead of trying to go straight through um the vacuum stalls and across that it helps visually just they know not to drive over the hatched area so exactly um I don't I don't that we're going to resolve that but uh so potentially a condition to work that out with engineer yeah condition yeah we we we would agree a condition to have come up with a a solution acceptable to the board's engineer to stripe is there any lighting provided on the E side of the building that pedestrians are using that area I'm going to defer that to Mr frud I I believe there is today again we don't have uh exact we don't have lighting specs lighting plans for what's there today uh but there's no intention to change the the conditions as a safety feature should lighting be added in that area for pedestrian use after dark the the primary pedestrian routes are directly adjacent to the building so you will have you know the light from the building casting on the sidewalk so I think those are what light from the building will reach the sidewalk on the east side the east side of the building you have the existing tenant spaces in there that are going to be illuminated so those will cast I don't believe that there are any building mounted lights currently today again you know Mr fruit would be able to clarify that and and Mr Chase I would i' ask you to app on this the in terms of the uh if the car wash operations the maximum would be 6 PM in the summer and 5:00 p.m. in the winter um would that diminish the chance of pedestrian vehicular conflicts at least related to the car wash operation certainly again as we heard you know the the primary the hours of the car wash are intended to primarily be during daytime only so they they closed a little bit earlier uh in the winter with Darkness reaching earlier so very limited Car Wash activity at D that wasn't the point of the question the point of the question was whether lighting is needed on the side if pedestrians the evening have to use the rear parking area and again it wasn't our our intent was to maintain the existing lighting it's been functioning in that capacity today uh you know we as we heard we agreed to um reduce the size of that existing light pole to lower that light so it'll what that'll do is it'll cast a a wider array internal to the site because it's lower in nature um I don't believe in my professional opinion that any additional lighting is necessary in that area well where's the closest lighting on the East Side in relation to the restaurant again I'm going to those are really site engineering related questions so I'm going to defer to Mr fud for those again we don't have exact lighting specs there our Focus was the the car wash operations and the modifications related to the car wash the additional operations of the site and lighting for the site would fall under the landlord purview so we don't have all the details on that but you're making major changes to the site so these issues really are appropriate could you even change the lighting on the Tenon area I'm Sorry Miss that question would you even would you be able to change the lighting at in front of the tenants area I mean I'm asking the question I mean I don't know whether the tenant would would authorize that yeah that may be Beyond candidly the the scope of our um our ability to you know improve the car wash but what so whatever existing lighting has at least for however long it's been there been adequate presumably for people to park anywhere in that parking lot and find their way and the only one you're changing is to move the one and lower it slightly that's correct the only light that we're proposing to change uh all the existing lights will be remaining in their current configuration and their current locations uh the lighting pole in the northeast corner is the only one that's moving and I believe Mr fruit said it's about six feet of a relocation and we agreed as a condition to replace that light pole within something that's in conformance with Township standards and even moving that light that light wasn't creating you know any Illumination in front of the business that's correct it's solely intended to illuminate the rear parking area so uh kind of a random question but um presumably some of the businesses in the deli May operate hours later than say the car wash so if someone the car wash is closed and someone's leaving the deli how are they going to know not to turn down the car quebe thinking they're exiting that that's the shortest point out and then get to the end and turn around and is it's clearly marked it is clearly marked but there is the ability there is a a bypass essentially so if someone was to turn down that lane by mistake after hours they would be able to get out get out yeah okay any other questions from the board uh any questions from the public uh for this witness as to this witness's testimony seeing none um thank you thank you thank you Mr chairman that concludes our obviously our presentation and I'll uh I won't belabor the uh the board with a with a closing statement I I I think we've uh uh hopefully addressed the board's concerns in terms of the proposed uh improvements to the site and uh as you heard Mr Freud uh testified to the uh positive and negative criteria in support of the variances that are being requested thank you and just uh uh for the record any members of the public here to give sworn testimony uh in favor of or an opposition to this application uh seeing none uh thank you there were a couple of other conditions I just wanted to go through that were in I think the either the planning review letter or the engineering um letter uh first was the Hudson essic Pake approvals to be submitted to engineering prior the issuance of building permits the fire department to review the site circulation and site improvements for emergency access um a preconstruction meeting with uh engineering and I guess otherwise comply with the you know engineering memo of November 20th there any any problems with any of those uh so actually Mr chairman with respect to uh the the last one you mentioned compliance with the engineering standards there were actually there I think they're in the form of recommendation so I just don't want there to be any confusion on the record there's a uh uh item number on the technical review comments on page any problems there just being conditions of uh you know approval if this is approved so the the the two I just wanted to just wanted to flag so there's no confusion there's a a recommendation number four I think it's on page three of the document under uh uh the site plan technical review comments about uh the vacuum stall parking area uh uh there's a consideration of extending a drive drive out we don't we don't believe that's necessary so we we we wouldn't want to agree I suggest that we're agreeing to comply with that okay and and then similarly there's a recommendation number one on the grading drainage and utility plan there's a recommendation about considering uh additional storm collection inlets we wouldn't believe that necessary okay otherwise I believe otherwise everything else is okay okay great okay uh the parties having had the opportunity to make uh or in this case wave closing statements it appears to the chair that the applicant all ined persons and uh board members have had a regional opportunity to be heard and that the evid evidentiary record of this hearing ought to be closed absent objection and in the absence of any motion for continuance the eventuary record is closed no further testimony uh or evidence uh shall be heard or received so uh the board shall now have the opportunity to State and discuss their views on this application want to go you turn your mic on sorry as I guess we thought it was you Sam def I guess as I my Diner's not here as as I guess that's why it's only 910 you you realized by now that I'm I'm very concerned about the safety of uh people that would park in the back and I know very well that they're not going to do this this and this to walk all the way around that building it's a long long way to get to that restaurant if you're going to go all the way around uh so I'd like to hold my my vote until uh I see what you plan to do to make it safer whether it's markings a curb whatever I just don't feel it's safe right now when when the car wash was operating if you parked in the back you had basically one driveway across you didn't have the whole maze thing now you've got a number of traffic areas that one has to walk past and through to get to the restaurant or the front of the building so I'm concerned about [Music] it um I I share I think Mr ratner's concern I'm I think comfortable that uh the board engineer who's also Township engineer can work with your professional to develop a safe pedestrian uh sort of uh plan um I am you know satisfied I think that the applicants met their burden on the uh variances particularly since two of the three were pre-existing conditions anyway uh for C2 variance is um happy to say I think it is a site in need of major upgrading and it's good to see an Adaptive reuse rather than another apartment building we have like apartment overload so anything that preserves the commercial uses I'm in favor of um so with that in mind and subject to the conditions that we talked about I'd be in favor of of the application so is there any motion to approve or disapprove I'll make that motion second to approves uh including the variances and subject to the conditions that have been stated on the record and I'll second that I like the plan I think there may be something you can do behind the parking spaces up at the top where the green is and you'll come up with something I'm sure it's really nicely done thank you yeah is we disc is there a discussion or is that whatever comments you okay so yeah so I just so there's a couple things first of all I just want to thank the applicant and uh and his attorney for this has been a long process getting here as well so I appreciate your patience I Haven to agree with uh Mr Lewis that this is a great use it keeps us out of the residential one of the multif family residential areas so we certainly appreciate this continue the commercial Zone that it is I guess my only question I would I would ask uh the applicant is that once everything is finalized or even now after this maybe this vote will go through is that they have a chance to discuss it with the other tenants uh in your build in this building there is certainly a fair amount of retail that goes on right now in that building whether it be in the restaurant on the west on the uh east side and the drugstore on the West Side um and both gets used you know pretty regly by by a whole bunch of people I mean you know during the week especially on the drugstore side and I just would like just to you know as a suggestion if you know as a good new as a good new neighbor moving into the area if you could just you know show the plans and maybe see that everybody has improved so there's no shock to the system when they see this going on that that's my only comment but uh thank you I want to thank you for a um a well presed application thank you for that um and thank you for both the experts uh their their testimony was uh was helpful so thanks for that um also um uh you think you know we express the same concerns that Sam has expressed but I think working with our Township engineer um and uh and your professionals I'm I'm sure that uh you know there'll be some sort of uh appropriate markings in order to to to keep the pedestrians you know walking in the directions that you kind of want to want them to walk in and to keep them safe and to keep uh you know the last thing we want to see is uh you know any any uh you know anybody using that that facility getting hurt not sure that you don't want that either so Mr chairman can that be a condition that that is they're going to it sound yes yes thank you there's a motion on the table um Mr Lois yes Miss GUI yes Mr Ratner yes Mr Minard yes chairman Fernandez yes thank you motion carries yeah there was it was uh M coochi Mr chairman that concludes our agenda items for this evening thank you uh with that thank you very much uh and we are done before 9:15 thank you everyone who wants to do Richard's motion to adjourn where else we where else we're staying I deserve thank you thank you Sam