WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=Mq_ELg0eJOA

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: Mq_ELg0eJOA):
- 00:03:31: Call To Order, Announcements, Pledge, Oath Of Office
- 00:07:38: Introduction to Focused Agenda: Ordinance Review Committee
- 00:08:11: Cleanup Ordinance: Definitional Sections, Removing Redundancies
- 00:13:12: House of Worship Ordinance: Conditional Use, Permitted Zones
- 00:14:51: Cleanup Ordinance: Clarifications, Questions, Committee's Work
- 00:19:20: Considering NJSA 405D: Adding Purposes for Planned Developments
- 00:25:36: Cleanup Ordinance: Commercial Vehicle Definition and Building Height
- 00:31:00: Cleanup Ordinance: Removing Drainage Definition; Importance Discussion
- 00:35:12: Cleanup Ordinance: Typo Corrections, Supermarket Definition Issue
- 00:37:26: Cleanup Ordinance: Discussing Banquet Hall, Hotel Definitions
- 00:42:40: Cleanup Ordinance: Motion to Accept Amendments Summarized
- 00:45:39: Cleanup Ordinance: Final Edits and Moving to Next Ordinance
- 00:46:27: Ordinance Amending Land Use: Places of Worship, Schools
- 00:47:17: Master Plan Recommendation: RLUIPA Implications
- 00:50:03: RLUIPA: Prohibitions, Discrimination, Unreasonable Standards
- 00:51:55: Definition of Terms: Senior Center, Place of Assembly, Schools
- 00:57:59: Discussion on Zoning: Conservation, Residences, Multi-family
- 01:01:55: Defining Schools: Goddard School, Hudson Way, St. Vincent
- 01:04:16: Instructional Schools and Studios Parking: Calculation Research
- 01:07:31: Checking Setback Requirements and Parking Sizes
- 01:10:13: Maximum Occupancy Parking: Spaces in Valley Mall Discussed
- 01:13:11: Religious School Affiliation: Concerns on What Board Sees
- 01:17:14: Review: The Emperor Site Plan Implications
- 01:21:05: Typos and Discussion on Local Streets' Master Plan
- 01:24:38: Motion to Accept and Adjourn


Part: 1

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Okay, we are on the air. >> Call to order the meeting of the Longhill Township Planning Board for May 12th, 2026. Time is uh 7:33. And I will ask madam secretary to please

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read our announcements. >> Yes. Call number one call to order and statement of compliance. Adequate notice of this meeting has been provided by posting a copy of the public meeting dates on the municipal bulletin board and website by sending a copy to the echo sentinel newspaper and by filing

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with a cop a copy with the municipal clerk. Number two standard board procedures at at any meeting conducted by the board is a quasi judicial proceeding. Any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are re relevant I can't speak tonight sorry relevant to what the board may legally

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consider in reaching a decision and to quorum appropriate to a judicial meeting must be maintained at all times. Number three electronic devices. All in attendance are asked to mute cell phones or any electronic devices as to not interfere with the proceedings. Pledge of allegiance.

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay. And now we have to uh have our

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board attorney administer the oath of office to um class one member Scott Lavender and class two member James Lavender. If you could please raise your right hands and repeat after me. Uh I please state your name. >> Scott Lavender.

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>> Lavender. >> Do solemnly swear >> do solemnly swear >> that I will support the Constitution >> that I will support the Constitution >> of the United States >> of the United States >> and the state of New Jersey >> and the state of New Jersey >> that I will bear true faith

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>> that I will bear true faith >> and allegiance to the same. and allegiance to the same. >> and to the governments established >> and to the governments established >> in the United States and in this state >> in the United States and in this state >> under the authority of the people

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>> under the authority of the people >> and that I will faithfully >> and that I will faithfully >> impartially and justly >> impartially and justly >> perform all the duties of >> perform all the duties of >> and then state your position. Planning Board.

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>> Planning board class one member. >> Planning board class two member. >> According to the best of my ability >> according to the best of my ability >> and that I will not use my office >> And that I will not use my office >> to grant preferential treatment >> to grant preferential treatment. >> Nor to seek personal gain

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>> nor to seek personal gain. >> Favor or advantage >> favor or advantage. >> Not available to the general public. So help me God. >> Not available to the general public. So help me God. Congratulations. >> Hey, congratulations.

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>> Pass that down. >> Congratulations. >> Pass that over. >> I'm back. >> While that's going on, I will take the role here. >> Long time no see. >> Welcome back. And welcome. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Welcome to another Lavender. The the

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smarter, better looking Lavender. >> No offense. Take no offense, Scott. >> All right, I'll take the role now. Uh, Mayor, uh, sorry, cross Mayor Persia and put Scott Lavender. Scott

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>> present. >> I got to redo this. >> James Lavender, >> present. >> Okay. Victor is currently absent. >> Mr. Hams is excused this evening. Mr. Lario

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>> present. >> Miss Ojins >> here. >> Mr. Alpala >> here. >> Vice Chairman Jones is excused this evening. Chairman Richardson >> here. >> Chairman, we have a court. >> Thank you. Well, again, welcome everyone. We have um a very focused agenda this evening

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around uh two ordinances that you have before you. Hopefully everybody uh did get a chance to take a a quick peruse of these u drafts uh for discussion this evening. I'm going to turn it over to our board

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attorney to just provide a little bit of an introduction and then we'll also have a little opening statement when we get to pertinent ordinances from our planner Liz. So take it away. Um so the the OC

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the ordinance review committee has been tasked uh with getting started with reviewing the ordinances and getting started with we the OC decided to get start with cleanup. So we started with

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the definitional sections. So, what we've done with that first ordinance that you're looking at, the definitions, is we've basically removed any definitions that we found were not used throughout uh the land use code through

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throughout the uh the code. Also, things that were redundant, things that were um basically not used anymore. uh there were a number of definitions relative to floodways and you know flood issues environmental issues having to do with

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flooding which are no longer accurate. They don't reflect accurate law. Uh there were uh other definitions that needed to be revised just to comply with what the law is at this time and also just revised to comply with what the

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ordinance actually says because you know when when the ordinance is amended over time sometimes the definitions are kind of ignored and some things are missed and then inconsistencies arise and then we have an issue especially when

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applicants come before the zoning board and they're trying to determine what they're allowed to do and what they're not and they're finding some inconsistencies between what the ordinance actually says and what the definitions say. So, we decided on the OC that it would probably be best to

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start at the beginning and that's where we started. So, there will be more additions, deletions to these definitions. This is just a start uh to clean up what we know that we have to clean up at this moment as we move

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forward. and uh address other parts of the ordinance. The definitions are necessarily going to have to be further amended, but we'll deal with that in future ordinances. For example, our house of worship ordinance tonight is

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taking care of a couple of definitions, you know, in that, you know, separate legislation because it deals with, you know, what we're dealing with in that particular ordinance. So, I didn't want to do that in the cleanup ordinance with the definitions

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because if that ordinance is not adopted simultaneously, there's going to be a period of time when we're not going to have a definition for certain terms and we didn't want to leave it that way. >> So, we cleaned up what we could. We cleaned up what we thought was a

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standalone issue and we'll be amending these ordinances, these terms as we move forward with other portions of the code. >> So that's basically that first ordinance with the definition. That's all we've done. Uh we we haven't made any policy

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determinations. We haven't decided, you know, anything really. It has really nothing to do with the master plan um and the changes in the master plan. It just has to do with it's got to be brought up to date. Uh so that's with the definitional terms. I've also

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removed some portions of the code uh because the original code references the 1996 master plan. Well, that's already been replaced. So I remove that and basically put in what the municipal land

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use law says that you're supposed to look at. you know, the the um uh the terms from the municipal land use law. And we've also we also decided that any terms any land use terms that are not

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defined in particular in this ordinance, you should look to a planning document that was written by Mr. Moscowitz who is no longer with us but uh this is a a um a book of planning terms effectively that you know that that has been published that many towns look to to

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define many planning terms and land use terms. So what we did was we are going to use that latest version whatever the latest version of that book is. So in the future, if there are later versions, we're going to be able to rely on them

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for definitions instead of, you know, trying to come up with a definition for every single simple planning or land use term that's already defined out there somewhere. And it's easy enough for an attorney who's representing a an applicant or a planner or an engineer to

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pick up that book and just look at those um definitions if they have a question about it. and they probably won't because many of these terms, the more important ones are already defined by the MLUL. So, it's not like, you know, we're not going to use that often pretty

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sparingly. So, that's the uh cleanup ordinance, the definitional one uh in a nutshell. And then the other ordinance is the house of worship ordinance where we are looking now I'll have Liz speak to that in a moment but what it's

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basically doing is at the moment houses of worship are basically not permitted in any zone in the entire township but they exist. >> So what this ordinance basically does is it creates uh a conditional use. So, they are permitted conditionally in

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certain, you know, in in certain zones. They're not permitted in others, but they are permitted subject to compliance with certain conditions that we're we're going to go over in a in a moment. Um, so they're going from an unpermitted use

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to a permitted use with conditions. Uh, so there are a couple of houses of worship in town that are pre-existing non-conforming uses. at the moment they're just not not permitted uses and any time that those houses of worship

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have wanted to expand in any way they have found themselves before the zoning board of adjustment um looking for a D2 use variance for an expansion of a non-conforming use. So now if they comply with all the conditions they're going to be able to avoid that. So it it

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will become a little bit easier for for some and for others, you know, they're grandfathered. They've been grandfathered forever because they perceive zoning as it is. So now, uh, as conditional uses, it'll be a little bit easier for them, but not completely

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because they're still going to have to comply with those conditions or get variances from the zoning board if they can't meet those conditions. So now at least there are parameters around the use rather than simply saying you're not permitted but we know you're here and we

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know you're grandfathered. It becomes a little bit of a diff difficult situation. So what we're doing now is simply um putting some some rules around them basically. >> So Liz, do you want to give your

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>> I do you want to do both? I think I well what makes sense to me is maybe tackle the cleanup ordinance first in regards to questions and we'll go through it. I just wanted to first of all thank uh both Liz and Yolanta to in helping to

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lead the process with the ORC committee and just remind the board as we had assembled this ORC team that we're really entrusting uh the ORC team to have done the heavy lift here. So, we're hopeful that really some of the

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questions and the comments are for clarity and we're not having to redo work that has already been laboriously handled by that group. So, I just I asked uh I asked for that as we kind of go through this. They they've done a a

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great uh job with Tom leading the team here to get us to this point. As you can imagine, these are really tricky. Uh it's like little domino effects. you take one domino out, it's like jingga blocks. You take the the jingle block out, the whole thing could fall. So, we're we're carefully trying to keep the

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structure of this thing together, right? Uh and and and move forward with getting some of these ordinances passed. So, with that said, >> I'm glad you brought that up because the the cleanup ordinance was much larger than just definitions. It it it was

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probably uh getting to be about 70 pages at one point because we were trying to take on a little bit more, but it would have taken the orcs so long to go through all of that 70 pages because there were, >> you know, there were policy decisions to be made and we decided, you know what,

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let's just clean up what we can without having to make any decisions based on the master plan, of course, and let's just clean it up, move forward, and then we can start getting into kind of like the meat. you know of the master plan. >> Yeah. So question just >> so please Yeah. Let's open it up to the

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cleanup ordinance. >> So just understand it. So this is so I understand this to be the first pass of cleaning this up and then it's going to evolve over time as we fix some of the other stuff. >> Yes. So this is the first pass just getting rid of the stuff that shouldn't

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be there. Fixing some of the stuff you know some inconsistencies. And then later we're gonna we're going to revert back. We're going to hearken back to the definitions. every every time we fix something else in the ordinance, we're going to have to remove things. We're going to have to add things. >> So,

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>> I didn't want to remove anything that is still referenced even if in the future there because that's how the whole cleanup process started, that whole 70page monster is that, oh well, we're going to remove these things pursuant to what the master plan says. And we

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started with the definitional sections, but then we thought, okay, that's just it's it's too big. It's too big of a project for one time. It's too big for the planning board to review. It's too big for the township committee. So, we just decided to break it up into chunks. >> And then what's our what's our goal with

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this today? Is it to have a meeting of the minds and say this is okay, but it kind of sits dormant while we go through other stuff or do we adopt this? >> No, this is going to be sent to the township committee for for their review and then if they choose they can put

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this on for first reading and then adopt it, you know, because just it it cleans up a lot of the stuff that >> Okay, so it's functional. It's functional. >> It is it's definitely functional. >> Doesn't have any stubs in it. >> It it doesn't and and it seems kind of counterintuitive to go back and forth,

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but we thought about this. We did and and we thought that this way would probably be the more sensible way and we're never leaving the township in a position where we haven't fixed this yet, but we we already removed all the terms. You know, we don't want to do that.

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Yeah, I think that's a good way to express it. >> Yeah. >> Well, and as a reminder, when under the assumption that the board will be happy with these two ordinances tonight, they go to I will send them to the township committee tomorrow, they will be on their agenda most likely for the 27th of

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the month, which means again they come back to us on the following planning board meeting in June because we still have to deem them not inconsistent with the master plan, right? >> Even though we wrote them. Just saying. Can I?

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>> Yes, please. Yep. We're open up >> for your consideration and looking at the NJSA 405D and now there's a D-25. Um and I I personally would like to see

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and I like the opinion of the group just three additional um purposes that are in that document which um address the planned unit developments and incorporate best

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features of design. Just the mention of design the other one and that in in this document is letter K. The other is to promote utilization of renewable energy resources.

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>> Certainly that >> and that's N in this document. Then O because we are we are stellar with our recycling used by neighboring towns. O is to promote the maximum

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recovery and recycling of recyclable materials from municipal solids yada yada yada. So it's just those three. There's um one, two, three, four, five, six that are in here that that we did not address

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in the proposed version. Uh they encourage um senior citizen housing more than most towns. Um and then flexible alternatives including clustering not sure in favor of putting that

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And then there's military facilities which doesn't apply to us anymore. >> It doesn't apply at all. >> So it would just be those three things. One is design and the second is renewable energy and the third is recycling

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and that's in the latest version of the 55 and they are Actually, in that in that document, their letters K and

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>> I'm sorry, Pam, would you mind re rereading uh the the design >> purpose? >> What page is that on? It's it's no it's in it's from the MLU. It's purpose K to encourage planned unit developments which incorporate the best features of

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design and relate the type design and layout of residential, commercial, industrial and recreational development to the particular use. We can put that in there. um you know we already cite to the municipal land use law and um

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what the definition the definition says which provides municipalities with the power to zone and includes among the purposes so that you know there are more purposes than what's on this page but we felt that this pretty much encapsulates what's happening in Longhill Township and what's happening in the master plan

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but we can certainly add you know more purposes from the MLUL doesn't hurt um you know and if someone were to come in and want to promote one of these purposes to promote the general welfare they can because it's in the ML anyway.

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>> The the next one is that's real short just to promote utilization of renewable energy resources. >> We certainly can. That's a good one. >> Vehicles thinking more in terms of >> we certainly can

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One is the recycling one. That's to promote the maximum practical practicility >> practicability. Yeah. >> Recovery and recycling of recyclable materials from municipal solid waste

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through the use of planning practices designed to incorporate the state recycling plan goals and to complement municipal recycling programs. Um even if we were to leave out I'm not familiar

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with the state recycling plan goals. Uh but if we let that out to complement our own municipal recycling programs, >> well, if we're gonna we're going to borrow from it, we should borrow it verbatim >> and and as I said, if if someone comes

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in here um to develop military facilities, which the federal government, >> we'll update her, >> you know, that off my list. >> Well, it's not. They can because it's in the MLUL. It is a purpose of the MLUL which which they're allowed to do as it

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is whether whether we put it in here or not. >> Whether we put it in here or not. But I didn't want to simply leave all of these sections uh kind of you know just just vacant you know with nothing in them. And most municipalities do repeat what the MLUL

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says either in whole or in part you know picking and choosing. Um but but with with the with the idea and you know and and the knowledge that yes, you can you can um you can use any of these to promote the general welfare. You can

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rely on any of these if you're an applicant uh before a board. >> The state trumps us. >> This it sure does. Well, the state gave us the power to zone through this law right here. >> So >> good. Thanks. Yeah. Did anybody have any comments in regards to adding those? I I

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don't see any downside of anybody else. Great. Thank you, Pam. >> Thank you. >> There's a typo in the now therefore be ordained state of New Jersey. We missed that. I missed it. >> Yep.

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All right. Other comments, questions? >> 55-1. No, D1 is this that's the the way that the statute is cited. That's that's the the beginning of the municipal land use law

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>> not the detail of 2021 at sequ. >> Yeah, that that's fine. That's the short term. The D2 is just the purposes of zoning. So you don't want to limit it to just that.

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>> Yeah. >> Page seven, the definition of commercial vehicle. >> Where's it pulling that from? The reason I bring that up is, you know, this car caused a little bit of um

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consternation when we were looking at um parking ordinance for commercial vehicles. I wouldn't agree with this. >> That is an existing definition >> from >> the ordinance >> the ordinance >> from the or in here. >> This is this is the township of Long

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Hill. That's another thing that we were trying to do initially but then decided that because we can't touch everything in the ordinance at once. It's just going to be too much. We decided to leave it alone. So, this is what it is right now, but it can change with a

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future uh ordinance change. >> Yeah. Can we strike it and get to it when we do a >> No. So, so >> that's the Jing that's the Jingga block we're trying to keep in the >> You got to keep in what you you currently use.

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>> That makes most sense. Then if we change the parking ordinance and change the definition there of a commercial vehicle, it will get changed here to be to be consistent. The two of them will have to be changed. >> So So note to the board here, put an

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asterisk next to that in the future. >> This is a huge problem, >> right? We talked. >> Yeah, we we have a a bunch of >> that's not the only one in this list of definitions that's not changed. >> Yeah. So, so anything I should have probably have prefaced all of this by saying that anything that is neither

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underlined nor you know has a strikeout through it that is what is currently actually everything is currently in the zoning ordinance. Um so we're striking things that don't belong anymore and we're underlining things that are new.

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>> Yes. Right. >> Yeah. That's that that's clear. Yeah, Scott, just so you know, I mean, that is one of the things the uh work is tracking is all of the problem Astra areas. So, right, >> but it is good to mention those as we

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kind of go through this now so we can record that and know to come back. >> Yeah. And and I'll say it's like we did some work on the committee on this one. >> Yep. >> And probably have some better >> Yes. >> input for this. >> That would be great. >> Right. But there were a number of

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definitions that we were striking that at at our last ORC meeting we said no we need to leave them because they've not been changed yet. So >> yep >> just to bring to your attention that

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building height which is a new definition on page five is defined differently than height of building on page 13. I have no trouble that they to be different. Just

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on page five, it's building height which is a new definition which is very specific and then on page 13 of building which is much more general and is the existing definition.

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>> There's actually a pretty important difference between the two that we should talk about. >> Yes. >> Right. One of these was supposed to be stricken and I don't think I ever got the answer about which which one we should strike >> because we should probably check with

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Joe. >> That's right. This was a Joe question >> because one is taking it from the lowest ground elevation and one is taking it from the highest. And so we should check because >> yes >> that's something that needs to be we we do know it needs to be addressed.

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>> Yes. Yes. This was a this is a vestage of us trying to fix a lot of different things. This is what this is. And there are a couple of things in here actually that we this that are Joe question, Joe Bouch questions, engineer questions. So

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we are going to pass this by Joe before we send it to the township committee anyway with our notes. But as far as handling that this evening with regards to any amendments we want to make to this now we're kind of left with which one is it

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>> right until Joe comments. >> I think probably the existing one. >> Yeah. >> Which is the height of height of building >> should stay and the other one >> Yeah. For now. For now. All right. So we >> So let's go on that premise. >> Let's Yeah. Let's remove it and just

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Yeah. not try to fix things right now. >> Right. Yeah. Because I would really like to get this to the township committee at this point. >> We don't want to include a definition for drainage. Don't want to steal it from the

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NJSA for the 55. >> Well, we're trying not to repeat things that are already in the municipal land use law only because >> they're already in the municipal land use law and we're following it anyway.

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>> Um, and we're trying to not have these definitions be overwhelmingly long this section >> um because it is as it is. Um, and unless it differs in some way, then we're not going to redefine it here. >> I don't see conflicts with anything.

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It's just always an issue in this town. >> Well, yeah. And so, you'll notice we took out wetlands and storm water and all this other stuff because all of that's in flux right now. And our concern >> with the updating of a lot of the state

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regulations is then our ordinance is going to be outdated with the definition. So, it's just better to strike it and let the MLUL change or use some state definition. >> Exactly. >> We're not we're not trying to diminish that that any of these things are not

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important because we struck them. >> Makes sense. I wonder why. >> Right. I found out just recently some of the updated storm water rigs are going to be postponed yet again. If drainage was not stricken with a strike through then it's not in the ordinance.

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>> It originally is not in the ordinance. >> It would have been a new definition but it's already um >> in the MLUL. Drainage is extensively defined in the ML. And the problem with defining things that change every couple

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of years is we have to remember to change the definitions. And if you don't remember, then you have applicants coming in and saying, "But your ordinance says," and it's wrong. >> And I think Chairman Richardson found a few definitions that are no longer

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>> like, you know, the flood, you know, the flood maps have all changed and we're referencing a 20201 map and stuff like that. It's just >> 100year flood, >> right? >> That they don't use that definition anymore. So, a lot of things appear in

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our ordinance and shouldn't because they don't exist >> in the state rules anymore, >> right? Or they have different ways of describing them. >> So, we're better off using their definitions than creating our own that

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create our own problems. >> Yeah. I mean, going to the opposite end of the spectrum, why have any of these definitions in our ordinance and just let MLUL dictate? >> Because some some of them aren't, some of them aren't

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>> and some of them we're required to have. >> Okay. >> So, that's important to differentiate rather than just tossing it all up to the MLU. Let people figure it out. >> Right. >> Look it up. >> Right. Right. Right. on the side. I learned about

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>> There you go. >> You're a roof expert now. >> Now I am. Awesome. >> Okay. Any other comments, questions in regards to the cleanup ordinance? >> Uh just a notice of typo at top of page

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18 says nonconforming confirming page I wonder if it's wrong in the ordinance. >> Listen, I copied and pasted right out of the ordinance. So, well, we're going to make it right then. I'm going to underline it because

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>> that's a good call. A good catch. Nonconforming. No, it's it's in here. >> Nonconforming. >> I found a couple of Yeah. while going through the ordinance, a couple of typos. Um Anything

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else? I saw Liz, you added a definition for supermarket and took out the grocery stores. Yol your did that get here's the problem with supermarket and grocery store we defined a grocery store and then called it a supermarket throughout

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the entire thing >> that's what it was >> that so that's kind of a problem and we also because we had this discussion the last time uh we took out the well I took out and that's another I'm glad you're asking this question because as I'm

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going through this I do have questions for the board um I took out that last sentence regarding regarding what the size is because because Lynn's um point Liz's point and it's a good point is that um >> you know your local Wawa is now going to

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qualify as a supermarket and it's not >> pursuant to what the size was in this definition. So that's an issue because that's not what a supermarket is. That's not what we mean when we say supermarket. >> That probably goes hand in hand with restaurant because restaurant's only one sentence

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in here, right? Yeah, >> it's a very vague sort of thing. So, it it's probably along with >> these are additions because I agree >> next time we go through to put it on the list of just kind of >> because yes, there's more formal there's >> because if you and you make food in your

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in your garage and you pass it out or your restaurant exactly >> those are future changes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, this >> this is not this time. It was the same thing as Scott of just noted for future This is definitely a a current one.

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Another one that we have here that, you know, isn't in the ordinance at all, but it's the banquet hall. I know we have one in town and, you know, but but it's not used in the ordinance anywhere, but we didn't take it out because it's been a definition. It is a definition. We're going to leave it for now.

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>> What about small hotel in andor bed and breakfast? Why would we leave that in? >> That was also we had discussion about this as well. Yeah, we had a discussion on every one of these. >> I mean, is that in the M? >> No, no, no. This is a long hill specific

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definition. I'm not really sure why you have it, but we we kind of batted around removing it, but then we decided it must have been put in here for a reason at some point. >> Figure out that reason, right? >> We couldn't figure out the reason, so we decided to keep it until we could figure it out.

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>> Airbnbs. >> That's just what I was thinking. It it wasn't in there for for a specific purpose that we could figure out right there. >> I I would I would my opinion would be to take it out. >> It's just me. >> Where is it? Hotel.

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>> It's 21 hotel. >> Page 21. Small hotel or small. >> So we debated it both ways. We we debated >> taking it out because we weren't sure where it went,

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>> but eventually decided we would leave it in until we could do the full research to see if there was something that was written in ordinance that we needed to

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change and then we could take it out. >> Venues in town that >> are similar It's a permitted use in the BD zone. It is >> I believe it was added within the last five years. >> Yes.

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>> But um I don't I think long term we may want to take it out, but I think it's just going to require a little bit more nuancing of of the >> right >> maybe there's aspects of that use we would want to to allow. >> Small hotel is a weird

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>> that's a that's a strange way to characterize. Well, yeah. A bed and breakfast kind of fits into this Airbnb kind of thing, which I know was, >> you know, a hot button according to the definition. Just rent the place, make your own breakfast. >> Yes.

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>> So, they wouldn't qualify, >> right? >> And they're not even called Airbnb or even bed and breakfast. It's short-term >> short-term rentals. >> Yeah. >> My last comment, I promise. >> Pageum

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one of the times when I read detention facility I don't know if we use this in our other documents but maybe detention installation would be a better way I don't think

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you know basins and temporary storage >> it is a sign of the times no it really is >> so I thought detention installation, but I don't know. You can just change that. >> Maybe it's storm water detention facility.

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>> That That's usually what it's called, the storm water detention facility. And let me let me take a quick look because we tried not to change anything that's used in the ordinance. Not Not right now. Even though we may not like it. Yeah.

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Yes. I think the term could be updated, but it it's not incorrect. >> No, it's not because >> I would rather go with a little of the awkwardness and then try to, you know, if you need to down the road address it >> and and it is used because I just

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>> Yeah. >> Googled our ordinance and it's used >> extensively. >> Extensively. >> Not with the word storm water in front of it. Unfortunately, >> sometimes storm water, sometimes not. But yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, wow.

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>> We just want to make sure it's differentiated from a prism. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Yes. The definition is clearly >> prison. Okay, >> good catches. >> I saw that.

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>> I don't know if it makes sense too, Scott, in the first reading of this when you flag some of these different to bring it up to the township committee and say, "Hey, you know, because there this is a draft to the township committee. If you guys decide to strike some of these definitions or know the

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source of the issue like we're kind of talking about and feel confident in striking it, strike it. >> You know, I don't think we're going to have a big problem with that. >> Yeah. I'll relay that to guy. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Okay.

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>> Good guys. Any other comments? >> This was a lot of work. I know for you guys and truly appreciate it. >> Yeah, especially when I saw the first document at 80 pages, I was like, "Holy crap." >> Yeah. >> Talk about mindn numbing, right?

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>> It just it just became a little bit overwhelming to put >> to get to all the moving parts. It >> was great bedside reading. >> Yeah. >> I can't wait until we get to Lu3

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with prohibited uses. So you can get rid of the mink farms farms. >> Yeah, >> that was on the list. That was in that big cleanup ordinance, the getting rid of the prohibited uses because all you need to say is any use not permitted is prohibited,

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>> right? >> Yeah. The whole thing. Well, well, hearing no more comments or last last chance of any comments that we have on it, then I'll ask if there's a motion to accept this with some of the different

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uh amendments that we discussed and maybe Yolante, you could just summarize that real quickly for the record, what >> sure >> edits we'd like to make. >> So, >> and then we can vote. >> Principally, we are going to add some of the purposes of the MLUL

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Uh we have removed the uh new potential building height um definition. We've made a number of notes some typographical changes and other than that I can't think of

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anything else. >> I just have those two. Remove the building the new building height definition >> keeping the existing one. >> Yes. Oh, one more thing. One more thing. I had stricken church.

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And I said that right after I said I'm not striking anything that has to do with houses of worship and here I did it. I I I am going to unstrike it >> because >> listen, I just had this conversation this morning and that's why I'm going to unstrike it here because it's going to

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be stripping there in the houses of worship ordinance. So because we we have to play this, you know, somehow that It it makes sense because if this gets adopted and that one doesn't, >> we still need this. So So I'm going to unstrike this. So that that's another

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thing. >> It's okay. Good >> segue into our next topic. >> Yes. >> Yes. The next time we go through it, we'll restrike. >> No, no, it's it's going to be stricken there, >> right? >> But if that never gets adopted, this can't be stricken if this gets adopted.

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So, we're trying to like a couple moving parts, >> but we can always come back and strike it later. >> Well, well, if we do once it gets stricken there, then it's stricken in the code. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> Yep.

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>> Okay. Is there a motion to accept as amended? >> So, move second. >> Who do we get? We got Tony and second. >> Yeah. >> Scott, >> I think we can do it all in favor. Correct. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Great. Thank you.

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>> And Deb, I'm gonna do another once over, make sure everything is right, and then I'll send it to you. Sounds good. >> Um because the issue that I've been having, I had to find it in my options. How do you do spell check on all caps? >> Oh, you don't? Yeah, it's

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>> No, I had to uncheck it in options and now I'm doing spellch check. >> That's that's bit me before ever. >> It is. Look, it took me like a half an hour to find it, but >> yeah. >> Okay. Uh let's move on to our ordinance

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amending land use ordinance for the township regarding places of assembly, places of worship and public and private schools. >> Okay. >> So, do you want to provide a info for us? I am because it's it is um sort of a

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complicated ordinance that we've spent a lot of time looking at and I know Yolanda has looked a lot at case law and we've looked all both looked at other ordinances other instances where >> surrounding towns have been >> litigated

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on this on these issues. >> Yeah. So, one of the recommendations just to for people who who either weren't on the board or may not remember, this was a recommendation from the 2023 master plan to have a places of worship ordinance. Um, currently the

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ordinance sort of loosely deals with places of worship. There's a definition for institutional uses which mentions churches but no other type of place of worship. Um, and there's a definition for church, which Yolanta mentioned,

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which is intended to encompass all types of places of worship, which is not a really great planning practice for a definition, and it it potentially could be seen as discriminatory if you're sort of calling everything a church in your ordinance. Um

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I the other thing I noted is that where we permit public and institutional uses I said the definition for public use is not in the ordinance. I I realized today it was repealed in 2020 and this is one of those things that Yolanda is talking

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about. The definition was taken out but the public use was never taken out of the permitted uses in all the zones. So, it's one of those things where one half of it got done and the other half didn't get done. >> So, um public and institutional uses are

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permitted conditional use in most of our zones. And the idea is that the problem and this is also mentioned in the 2023 master plan is the conditional use standards are open-ended. they are

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mostly um left to the planning board's discretion as to what kind of impacts there might be and how the planning board would like to mitigate those impacts. I think and as Yolanda is the expert on law, it probably wouldn't pass the arbitrary and capriccious standard

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if if any approval or denial by this board or the zoning board was ever challenged >> and the zoning board would have you know when would Deb ever send anything to the zoning board when there are no standards. How could she tell that the

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standards weren't being met? That's the problem. So, we're trying to create a conditional use, a use that's permitted but for these conditions. And if there are no conditions, it's just a permitted use. >> I I've I I litigated that issue actually

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um with another town who had conditional uses. They claimed that this was a conditional use. There were no conditions. what the what the court found and we went all the way to the appellet division and the appellet division said >> if it's a conditional use or you think it's a conditional use but there are no conditions it's a permitted use

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>> so this is a problem you know if if you're trying to condition it upon something then you have to have something >> that's what we're trying to do here >> something so you know why places of worship why is this a concern and primarily it's because of the religious land use and institutionalized persons

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act of 2000 which is a federal ederal act colloquially known by its acronym arupa um and arupa prohibits zoning that treats places of worship differently from any other place of assembly

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non-religious place of assembly so you however you treat a place of worship you have to treat a community center or a elks club um our lupa also says you cannot discriminate on the basis of uh a

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religion or a religious denomination. So you can't in other words say well for you know a church the parking standard is this but for a mosque it's that. You have to treat every um place of worship

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equally and the zoning cannot completely exclude uh any religious use or you know any religious building. Um and none of the standards can be unreasonable, you know, which would potentially affectuate

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a exclusion. Um you know, or or place some standard that's so ownorous and unreasonable as to essentially affectuate an exclusion. So what happens if a township violates our LOPA? You can face severe financial, legal, planning

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consequences. the house of worship in question will most certainly be approved as part of the um litigation. You >> and you'll pay to build it >> and the township will probably not only have to pay the legal fees of the house of worship, but you'll probably have to

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pay damages. Um the ordinances would be voided and um you'd be forced to change the zoning law >> just to basically. So it's it's it's significant and there have been and Yolanda knows more and there have been nearby towns that have had to gone through this.

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>> So what did we do here? We tightened up the regulations in the attempt to avoid the township coming into violation of our LOPA. Um we have added definitions for a place of worship that is more inclusive. It's not just limited to a

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church. And we've also added a definition for a place of assembly. A place of assembly is obviously a little bit of an odd term, but it it really is intended to avoid this um potential for discriminating

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>> how you treat a place of worship versus how you treat a community center. Um so we added definitions for both which you'll see in the underlines in this defi in the ordinance. And we also removed the definition for church because it just it seemed sort of

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outdated. And then we added conditional use standards that are exactly the same for both types of facilities for a place of worship and for a place of assembly. Um, I can go into the standards in a in a

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minute if people have questions, but just so you know, they start I started essentially with a baseline of the C zone um, which has sort of the largest minimum lot size in the township and then made a some slight tweaks um, but

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those are kind of the basis for the standards. So the next question >> those listed at the bottom of page seven. >> Yes. And then the the next thing is why are schools in this ordinance? Um it's

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basically a combination of Arupa and the MLUL. So AR loopa applies to religious schools. So if you in any way treat a religious school any differently than you would treat another school in the municipality, you're in violation of our

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loop. So in addition, the MLU MLUL mandates that every zoning in a town has to treat public schools and private schools exactly the same. So in our ordinance, what what we've done here is

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we've created definitions for public and private schools because there were no definitions for schools and we created conditional use standards that apply to both. Um, additionally,

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we added a definition. This is really for clarity, but for instructional schools and studios and that was essentially um so that if people have, let's say, a language school that people attend after, you know, kids go after

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school or on the weekend or if there's tutoring or tutoring facility, that sort of thing. that that wouldn't people wouldn't um question whether that was a school under this definition or not. So sorry under the school definition. So

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the instructional schools and studios makes it abundantly clear it's a different type of use >> and we and we discuss this and it's more akin to a retail use really. Um if you're going to dance class or yoga class or you're going to a language school whatever it is

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>> or tutoring or you know one of those SAT preps I mean they can set up shop basically anywhere, even in a strip mall, >> whereas a school wouldn't. >> So, we added that use as a um permitted use in the BD zone, which is our, you

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know, on Valley Road downtown downtown zone um and assigned a parking requirement that is the same as for retail use. Mhm. >> So, we also um recommend removing the

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institutional use definition because it was just sort of now encompassed in these other definitions. Um and we added a separate definition for public and institutional uses, which is in my mind better because that's actually the term that is used throughout the ordinance,

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public and institutional uses. But we made a specific note in that definition that this does not include place of worship, assembly or schools. So I know that was a lot, but if you have any specific questions, I'm happy to

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answer them. >> Good. >> Yeah. >> So I'm just my mind's going up and down the street. So the senior center >> Mhm. >> What is that place of assembly? >> Yes. >> Has a kitchen.

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>> Mhm. >> Does that have to be mentioned serving food? Anything? Oh, >> Elks Club, place of assembly. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Longill Community Center. >> Yes. >> Place of assembly.

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>> Old Town Hall. >> I don't know where that is. You mean the old school house? The old school >> the old town hall up on Long Road assembly. >> Yeah. >> What about this town hall?

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>> This is a public or institutional use. So would the fire a firehouse would be that. Uh public works, >> you know, a building or a yard. The police station is a public use. >> The library. >> The library. library.

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>> Yeah. >> Post office, stuff like that. >> Post office. >> Yeah, that's >> that's a public institutional use. It's a government use basically. >> So, it's not a place of assembly is what we're differentiating it from what we're talking about here.

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>> I mean, in my mind, the places of assembly are really the secular version of the religious places. That's really what we're talking about secular versus a religious >> uh you use of that property. >> Yep. >> The only comment I have and again this

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is a tremendous amount of work for for all of you. Section two addresses the conservation zone. Section three is uh the residences, but what I don't see is a section for

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multifamily zoning, >> RF, RF2, RMF3, and town houses, >> which I would think would be the same as the residential. >> The only reason I didn't do that was

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because those zones tend to have been created for specific developments. >> Yeah. And so they are not >> um the likely they're not really um where a place well a place of worship

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may want to go there but they're they're more um already built out according to the specific zoning providing for town homes for multif family units etc. and they're not widespread. Whereas like the R zones

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are all over town and the C zone is all over town. Those are kind of very specific almost sight specific >> zones. Yeah. >> So we can't get zed on that if somebody >> Well, I think if you were didn't have it permitted anywhere, but I think the fact

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that you're permitting them in a in a wide swath of the town, >> right? No one can say we're not open for right this kind of development. >> We're not if we said, "Oh, you can't have a place of worship anywhere." >> You know, that would be a problem.

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>> Want to add it just um2 these are single family and then add on the same conditional the others. Just leave it out. Yes. And one one reason also is that the

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existing places of worship in town are predominantly in the R zones and I think one is in the C zone. >> Just just for our recording, Pam, where where are you in the document? Just so we can >> page three. >> Okay.

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>> At the top section three, the um the 122.2 those are residential zones and those are family homes >> and then we go to the villages, we go to downtown and this is preceded by the conservation zone

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>> but the um we don't have the multifamily zone >> there there are two other zones and I should note one that I didn't put it in uh one is the O office zone and the reason I didn't do that

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>> uh is because our master plan recommends getting rid of that zone Exactly. >> So, so I I didn't put it in. >> The other one is we have the LI2 which is light industrial >> and the master plan recommends

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that that actually the name be changed to the LI. Maybe that has already happened. I'm sorry. That may have already happened to the LI, but we also recommend in the master plan a bunch of reszonings within that zone. So, it's like quite specific what is left. And um

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I didn't include it because it would that's a very small area and I kind of didn't I didn't want to encourage anything that wasn't a commercial use that might contribute to the tax base because it because it's very small

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whereas the BD zone is a is larger. >> Where do the all street parking numbers come from? >> Okay, that's Thank you for asking. >> We were going to get there. That was a long discussion as well. >> Before Before you go there, while you're still on these uses, um, private

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schools. >> Yes. >> So, where does like the Goddard school and the uncommon thread fit in? >> So, the um the definition my understanding of the Goddard school is is it

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>> prek, >> right? Yes, that's >> and so I think it is and so that doesn't fall under the definition of a private school. >> Um I think the uncommon thread is we we felt like was a private school. >> It appears to be. >> Yes.

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>> Yeah. >> And then if St. Vincent, they don't have a school right now, but if they went back to it, >> would they be school there? School. There's an immersion school. >> That's the school. And it appears to be

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a full-time institution. So that that is a private school as well. Okay. >> It's a private school. >> That's private. >> Oh, here it is. Hudson Way Immersion School, >> right? Yep. >> Is there any limitations like on zoning if let's say some entity wanted to put

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in a uh religious school? >> Yes. >> Or a nursery school. >> Yes. Well, well, nursery is a little bit different. Let's say you mean a nursery school is part of a place of worship.

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>> A pre-K school. It doesn't have to be a place of worship. It could be. >> Okay. Because well, because the one the reason I'm asking is because often times and I think case law supports this like many churches or many synagogues have a

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um daycare center as part of their operations and it's sort of considered I think customarily incidental and accessory. the if somebody were to come in to do a nursery school, there are certain standards by the state. >> Yes. Yes, there are.

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>> But if if somebody were to come in, let's say a religious organization came in and said, "We want to start an elementary school," they would be subject to this ordinance. >> Okay. But if someone wanted to put a for-profit daycare center like in Valley Mall, that

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would be a business >> that I think it's Yes. Yes. And they would have to get licensed by the DCA. The DCA oversees it. >> Yeah, they do. >> Yeah, >> good question.

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>> I won't even go to doggy daycare. >> I almost pet doggy daycare there. >> Believe me, I >> That'll be the next ordinance. That's our That's on our next ordinance agenda. >> So, >> all the pets we've got,

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>> you had specific questions about the the parking numbers came from. >> Okay. So, currently, so the instructional schools and studios, one per 200 square feet of floor area, as I said, that's what our um standard is currently for retail uses, and we're

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treating them similarly to retail uses. Now, the place of assembly and the places of worship, we went all around the the barn with this. And basically currently we have

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one for a place of work or for a church currently we have one per every three persons uh based on seats of estimated seating capacity. And what I did found in my research is that oftent times all over the country

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the standard seems to be one parking space for three people. And how you how you sort of calculate what three people is is different. >> So in this instance the the seats uh it's three seats. Sometimes it's like

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well if it's 72 in of pewench >> of a pew or a bench >> but the problem is and where this gets discriminatory is not all religions have people worship sitting down. And so what

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we kind of went back and forth how big is like a prayer mat, you know, we were kind of going through and what it came down to and I've seen this now in a few other places is to say the maximum occupancy of the worship area.

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So that's sort of you know on a during a word during a service that's probably going to be the space of maximum >> sure >> intensity and the maximum occupancy. >> That's really per the fire code too, right? and that it would be one for every three

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persons based on that. >> What we did, what we explicitly excluded though is that it doesn't include like if you're going to do it, it's just max maximum occupancy of that space, right? Not if there's ancillary classrooms or

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kitch or that's you know office space. It's primarily that um sanctuary space >> and that standard what the research that you do >> it it seems to be how you do one per three and like I said you know if if the

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72 inches I think is gets divided by how wide how much space they need >> you know so it it does come down to one per three quite often >> we got into a whole thing of worship attendance and when that happens and religions

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days and then the rest of the year it's a third of that >> true that's kind of the one right can trip you up. It feels like >> it absolutely is something that people seem to have been litigated on more than not especially with some of the setback requirements that are inside

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here inside the >> the ordinance with if you have too much parking >> right >> you can run into something. So I was just wondering if there was but it sounds like you researched it. Yeah. I mean, one thing I I know that we found a h um a mosque that's currently

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under u a board review in another town. And they when I backed out that town actually regulated on total square footage and when I backed out what the mosque said it needed, they were basing it on the sanctuary. the mosque, you

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know, and so um >> the way that places of worship are supposed to function and the way that they do realistically function is if when people are utilizing the sanctuary, those same people are dropping the kids off to

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>> the Sunday school or you know the the religious ed classes while the parents are in the sanctuary. any other time when they're bringing kids there or they're congregating for another reason, it's a much smaller number of people. >> So, this is calculated based on what's

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the max occupancy of this structure and we're going to park that >> and what the board can consider and what a house of worship may want to consider is banking parking as well. We can bank parking so that if the need arises, they

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can pay the rest of that parking. But until that time, they can bank it and leave it alone, leave it green, you know, while if they don't need it. And and they're more than happy to do that only because, you know, nobody wants to spend the extra money to pave the whole thing. So, you know,

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>> I know in a lot of towns they uh a lot of the places of worship um organize and and orchestrate adjacent properties too >> because it's Sunday morning. They're not open. They allow a parking lot to be used, which is a really good idea

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because that parking lot is not used, right? Shared parking and you only need it for these abbreviated periods of time. So, >> right. Right. >> Yeah. So, yeah. >> Now, you said something about setbacks. Are you concerned? Did you see >> Oh, no. I'm just saying that with the

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the size of the setbacks that are in there >> coupled with the definition that you could lead to very large parking areas and smaller coverage lead to >> an issue people coming in and saying we can't build to the size because of the setback requirements and everything else

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with the parking that you have. So >> just making sure that we're not making you know saying that you need so much parking with the setback requirements with all this you don't need three acres you really need more than that. Right. So, it's just a totality of all those forces together to make sure that

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they're not exclusionary to any group. >> But isn't this working to set a maximum, right? >> I mean, it's the set there. >> So, you can you can propose something less than this >> in your development. >> Yep. Yeah. And

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>> it is a conditionally permitted use. It's permitted, right? It's permitted. It's inherently beneficial. Um, and if you can't meet this to the letter, I mean, there there is the opportunity to go before the zoning board and it isn't as heavy a lift as it is right now. >> Right. Right. That's the whole purpose

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of the renovation of this ordinance. >> Good. >> Other thing is for some of the other establishments when it says one for 200 spaces. So like if they write a spot in the Valley Mall, how do you figure out how many spaces they have?

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They usually when when a mall comes in, they usually have a breakdown on their site plan of all the existing tenants and what their needs are and how many spaces there are. >> So it comes from the ten from the landlord coming in. >> Yes. Yes. Which is us I mean if

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somebody's going in as a tenant, they usually have the backing of the >> the landlord. Sure. Right. Who would give you that information? >> Um I think they have enough. No, no, I'm just I'm not worried about them. I'm worried about the inverse of it,

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>> right? Some of the other spots that are here of if they've got, you know, 50 spots and it's 12,000 square feet, right? So, according to that, you're 10 spots >> low, but the schools are after hours and the other group works early during the

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day and they don't have anything, right? So, like I was just wondering how that sort of gets judged. So, you don't get into a spot where somebody says that they want to have a religious school after school, >> right? >> And they need they have 40 kids or something that come in to there and

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they're right. So, if you come in and you say, "Well, based on that, they need 25 spots." So, is there like the time shift? So it's just >> it sorry I'm sorry to but the we actually are saying that that religious school that's after after school yeah

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>> isn't counted in the parking >> okay >> it's only the maximum it would count if it was like a 9 to three >> the primary use that if there was a a large >> I'm saying it's like they rent like an spot on the industrial building >> right like not inside the the house of

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worship itself >> right but it's a group that comes in and rents something, you know, on on Bay Street or one of the other >> side streets, right? So, it's not attached to a house of worship. It's attached to, you know, >> whatever.

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>> But, but what's it being classified as? Is it a place of worship or is it >> Well, that's kind of the ambiguity, right? >> Well, what we're trying to >> This really wouldn't allow you to do that in place you select. Okay. >> I don't think

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>> Well, I'm sorry because Can you explain? Are you talking about like um >> He's talking about the religious. So I think he's talking about a place, >> right? So it's like a a a Hebrew school. Let's do something after school. >> That that would be considered probably an instructional school. >> Okay.

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>> Yeah. Because it's not school like >> Yeah. Something along those lines, right? Where where it might be affiliated with >> it might be >> a house of worship, but they don't have the space. So >> instead of doing it there, they rent something else out. Um, that's a good I mean it's an interesting question because it would be like an inherently

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beneficial instructional school. I mean I don't I don't know potentially. >> Yeah, we didn't really talk about that. >> But in those situations, we may want them to come to a board. I mean that that's the other thing. We don't want to we don't want to create something that people aren't appropriately coming to the board.

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>> Agreed. Right. So I'm also trying to understand that side of it where like did you give them is there so much that that >> we'll never see them >> that will never see them. Right. So, like I'm trying to understand both sides of the coin. >> They're not exempt from site plan approval. >> They're not.

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>> So, even though they may be exempt from a a use variance approval, like with the zoning board, they're still going to be here for site plan approval. Even if they comply with all those conditions and they don't need a conditional use variance, they still need to come here

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and demonstrate that the site is going to be able to operate under your planning ordinance and accommodate everything. And it's all going to be put together correctly. You know, your ingresses, your egresses, and everything works, the site circulation. So, they're still going to be here before the planning board, even if they comply with

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everything >> for a new building for >> for a new building. And if anyone is um expanding something that's not there right now, they will more than likely need amended site plan approval if they have site plan in the first place. If

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not, they're going to have to be here for site plan approval if they can comply with all of these conditions. If they can't, they're going to land before the zoning board with amended site plan approval and a use variant. Well, not a use variance, but a C3, you know, a C. >> So, like if it's a 30,000 C3,

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>> if it's a 3,000 foot space that had one use and now a use like this comes in, they don't need to come to a board, right? It's just a tenant replacing a tenant >> inside a spot. That's what I mean where like if there's a way that you have something in there that's innocuous now, right? It's it's a

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kitchen or something like that, right? It's cabinet maker and the cabinet maker leaves. Now all of a sudden it's a religious school that only operates after hours. >> Same exact square footage. They're not changing any walls. They're not changing anything inside the building. They don't need to come before anything. >> It's a it's a different use. It's a

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completely different operation. Like they have to get What kind of site plan approval did that first business have? If this one is functioning differently, they h they need amended site plan approval, you know, because they're going to have to add parking probably. They're they might have a different

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egress, you know, and ingress. They might have different drop off points because if you're dropping kids off and picking them up, it the site circulation is just going to be different. Um, you may have stuff going on where the landscaping is going to have to change. you know, they're going to want to put

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in, you know, parking islands or whatever, you know, to to kind of make it a little bit easier to park. Whereas, when you have a business like that where you don't have a lot going on, you don't have that issue. >> Listen, the only I can say is that we

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can't think of every eventuality. Whatever we adopt, somebody will come in and we'll be like, "Oh, we didn't think about that." >> But I figured we thought about a lot >> when they come before the boards. >> That's when you figure it out. When they come here, >> same I'm thinking of the Emperor

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site plan. Yeah. really >> wouldn't we be in hot water if we refused it? >> So, one of the other questions would would they be able to provide the the parking for what would you're describing

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as a a a place of worship. >> Well, it was there when it was kings. >> Yeah. But that's not what it was that's not its use. >> And it it would have had a parking space uh more of the retail style which is

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less than what you would have for the number of people. >> They say my occupancy is only going to be hundred. We're gonna Well, >> we're going to open it up and have a big church of >> Yeah, I understand what you're saying. But but so 100 would be

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>> 33 parking spaces. By the way, this is written for a a place of worship, right? But for It's based on occupancy, which we wouldn't say and they wouldn't say. It would be the building code. >> Building code would say.

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>> Yeah. It's not that they're saying, "Oh, we're only having 12 people and and they're having many more." Yes. Yeah. >> Right. So it probably be >> well they would have to >> demonstrate >> demonstrate that they would have the

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parking for 33 people if it if they're talking about a maximum occupancy of 100 and then they would have to get that from the landlord of the valley mall to make sure that yes we have 33 designated

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spots for whatever day that place of worship ship wants to have it and it's guaranteed somehow. So there'd be >> they'd have to come and spend a lot of time explaining themselves and get approval >> could happen.

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>> I mean if you eventuality >> if you wanted to not have it in the BD zone that's a possibility but I will say that there are certain benefits of having it on >> you know on Valley Road where you already have existing parking. It's not

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really uh interrupting a single family residential neighborhood, that sort of thing. >> That makes perfect sense. >> And I mean, you know, is that a huge draw for a house of worship? I'm going to say no, right? You know, I been doing this for a long time and I've seen a lot

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of houses of worship try to locate in various towns and I can tell you that >> I only saw one um uh one strip mall where a house of worship attempted to locate. they were before the zoning board and the zoning board basically they they ended up withdrawing the

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application when they realized what it really entailed >> and they were basically talked out of it. You know, it's not that they were denied. They were talked out of it >> uh because it's it's not really conducive to that. You would think that it might function like some of the things that are already uh permitted

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here like child care centers or you know um funeral homes or health clubs or recreational uses or movie theaters. I mean those those are things that a movie theater is kind of like a church I would say. I don't know. You go there for an hour and then you leave.

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>> That's the place of assembly that I know at least one town got sued on that they had a less stringent parking requirement for movie theaters than they did for houses of worship. >> Houses of worship because it's very similar. It's a very similar use except you know you're going on Friday night to

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the movies while you know you might be going to a house of worship on a Friday night or you might be going on a Saturday or you might be going on a Sunday. Um so the days differ but it it's basically the same thing. >> How are we doing? Any other comments on those questions?

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>> Two uh two typos. >> Oh can I get So we're done with questions before going to typos. >> Yeah. state of New Jersey in it in the be it ordained on the first page. >> Sate. >> Oh my god. >> One

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>> and and um page five. >> Yes. >> Steeples Spires and Belelfreeze. >> Belffle. I got that one too. >> It's It's missing an R. >> Yes. >> It's not Belies. It's Bel.

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>> Belief. >> Oh, boy. Okay. >> Okay. And there there's one an A on that same section. Um there's a word missing. Where the heck is it? It should under A. It says shall

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meet the requirements is what you wrote in the other section. >> No, I did. Okay. Thank you. >> So I would just keep it consistent, right? >> Requirements. >> Y. >> And then the only other question that that I had was on item M where it says

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Vehicular access shall be provided from roads other than local streets in accordance with the roadway classifications and the circulation element >> of the master plan. >> What do we what's other than a local

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street mean? >> Most of your streets are local streets. And so if you look at the master plan, there's a map, >> right? >> And it shows you which ones are not. And and in town that's only Valley Road.

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>> Take a look at the master plan. >> Yeah. >> Main county roads. >> Yeah. County roads. >> Really? You get the county roads? >> I'm not sure that's it. So just just double check. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Take a look because >> Well, yeah, that's what I thought it was in the circulation element because I

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originally wrote it. >> Oh, you did? >> I did. I'm sorry. >> I think I I think I did the math. Okay, you changed the map from the map that I did. That's all right. >> So, I just need to understand what what

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the local road is based upon that. I didn't look at the circulation. >> I did was to not have it in not encourage them in single family residential, >> right? That's the whole residential areas, right? But but you're including it in some residential

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>> because some of those zones are not are extend into non-local streets, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, if we're okay with that what seemed like an inconsistency to me, I'm okay with it. >> You mean it's an inconsistency because

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you're permitting it in those zones? >> Well, not allowing it on local streets. >> Yeah. when in fact you're doing it in the zones. It the zone could include a local street is what I'm saying.

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>> Correct. But the zone probably also includes a non-local street. >> Okay. >> All right. Okay. I'll buy it. >> Would this be a definition somewhere >> for a local street? >> Local street. Yeah. >> Well, I think local street that I would

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say because it needs to defer back to the master plan. because that's where it's it's mapped and I would just just keep it at that. >> Okay. >> And that was that was the only thing. >> Anything else? Any other comments?

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>> Is there a motion to accept as uh I don't think we have too many amendments to this at all. In fact, I didn't really >> other than typos. >> Uh is there a motion to accept? >> I make a motion to accept.

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Excellent. >> All in favor? >> I >> Any oppos? >> Okay, great. >> That's your bulk standard. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> No, I' I I have been I've been working on the bulk standards chart of the

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ordinance >> and with the help of Yolanda and so we went over it today and I had hoped to have a graph but it was too busy today. >> Okay. So, >> next meeting you be able to bring that up. >> Yep. >> Um, >> and that should be actually ready to go

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because it's, >> you know, any any other new business, old business that anybody has. >> I just wanted to uh highlight one thing that the mayor asked me to help with. As you've been seeing, there's lots of

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green ribbons being tied around town is just to raise awareness for the national uh mental health uh awareness month. Uh, and I think the town's doing a really good job through Boy Scouts and other organizations and spreading the word and

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getting ribbons out. Uh, this is important for raising awareness, kind of removing the stigma attached to mental health and also helping to promote better financial resources to address mental health. So, I think it's a very good cause and I'm glad the town is is

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embracing it. So, great. Um, with that said, I will ask for a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> All in favor? >> I. Great.