e e okay we're on the air great welcome to the meeting of the lill township planning board for March 25th 2025 our meeting is commencing at 7:30 would you please read the announcements absolutely
thank you number one call to order and statement of compliance adequate notice of this meeting or hearing has been provided by posting a copy of the public meeting dates on the municipal bulletin board and website by sending a copy to the echo Sentinal newspaper and by filing a copy with the mun municipal clerk number two standard board
procedures any meeting or hearing conducted by the board is a quasi judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and to Corum appropriate to a Judicial meeting or hearing must be maintained at
all times number three electronic devices all in attendance are asked to mute all cell phones or any electronic devices as to not interrupt the proceedings number four Pledge of Allegiance United States of America to the rep for it stands one nation
godible libery and justice for all okay roll call Miss D present Mr H here committee M lav present Mr lavaria here Mr Mitchell is excused this evening
Miss oens here Mr opala is excused this evening Vice chairman Joe present chairman Richardson here chairman we have a quum great thank you very much well good evening everyone we have uh next on the agenda the
minutes which are attached to the agenda which are attached to the agenda for March 11th if you could take a quick glance if you haven't done so already see if you have any corrections additions only only request I would have is uh the ordinance Review Committee
should be called the orc going forward please thank you marketing you're marketing that parentheses O Okay hearing no discussion is there motion to accept these
minutes so moved a second I'll second great all in favor I great motion carries uh next up is uh an application uh to be carried for a minor
site plan for Block 14602 Lot 10 Zone M through H at 68 632 Myersville Road this is app a number 24-16 P uh the um looks like we're trying to
carry it cor to uh the next meeting that's correct Mr chairman yeah the uh the applicant did notice for this evening um I did deem it to be con sufficient in terms of content and timeliness of service so um I think there was some kind of miscommunication between them and our professionals at getting plans um I don't think anybody's
really at fault just kind of a miscommunication thing so U yeah we just have to carry it by voice announcement to uh the board next meeting great so is there a motion to carry so moved second second all in favor I I that's great
I'll make the the formal announcement the application uh 24-16 P block 14602 l 10 Zone MH uh property located at 632 Myersville Road that application is going to be carried to the boards the board's April 8 2025 meeting 7:30 p.m.
here in the will hold that's your formal announcement members of the public I don't see you but I'm making it anyway we thank you okay well moving very efficiently through our agenda this evening we are uh already at Old
business uh and new business uh and first up is uh importantly our state plan cross acceptance plan uh which you should have attached which are uh the draft
draft final answers but I'm going to turn it over to um David are you gonna with Liz hand it I'll just do a quick recap sure yeah I think the last meeting we mentioned that uh we spoke at
length I think the last couple meetings about the state plan and the requirement to provide comments back to mois County by the end of this month um Bob and I attended the meeting at the moist toown uh Courthouse
and uh you I think we collected some responses and some original work with you know Tom leading the Excel spreadsheet charge on this one so uh he Bob and I spent a bit of time beforehand and we discussed it last
meeting and I think we generally came up with conclusions or or suggestions and then handed it over to Lis for is to uh put it together in a uh proposal or in which we have to present that I think
hand it off to the township committee who will then hand it to Moes County yes sure so it there is a uh process through the internet where you enter in
this um data and so it's not a physical copy and I I think we had spoken or I at least had spoken with Deb last week about you know we're happy to do it just just to have you know just to take it what is in here and put it into the
correct forms that are available um but I think the other thing is it as um I know Jessica cell and I both agree that you the township committee doesn't have to look at it but it's good practice you they don't have to but I think it's why not I mean you know just to have them
absolutely you know review it and so forth but they don't have to take any formal action on it you know it's more just uh educ discussion points and just so that that you know in case any anyone on that Township committee has a has a strong opinion
about what planning area Long Hills in or you know that there's it's they're informed before we um submit our information and there a couple of items and I spoke a little bit with David before the meeting because obviously I wasn't at the previous meeting where you
talked about it that we had some language in here about designating um you know Gillette Millington Sterling and Myersville as centers which would require an amendment to the map and I think my understanding
is we don't really want to get involved with that right now um and it doesn't hurt us either way um but it's probably just easier uh to not to not do it to not actually make any you're referring to an amendment to the map in the master
plan well no sorry I'm sorry it's that the state oh an amendment to the state plan map yes and so you'll see like for example I think Bernardsville if you look at the state plan map which is you can is available online they have like a little
outline around a town center and there's some like another town I work and has one to the best of my knowledge I it doesn't affect anything any which way okay you know um but if we were to add
those boundaries you know we would just have to be really careful and really specific cuz you actually have to outline it on the map through lots and blocks I assum yes yeah exactly um and so you know I think I if we you know elect not to make
any amendments which is fine we just have to write a little memo to the county saying we you know elected not to you know we've accepted your mapping as proposed essentially that doesn't apply to
Villages if you just designate them as Villages you C either way it's a it could be like a they have um different categories of centers so it can be like a Village Center it can be a town center it can be a regional center and But
whichever we you know category we would fall into we would still have to um kind of outline it on the map and so you know that was a concern of mine just because
we haven't you know okay where does Millington begin and end you know where do we mean by Gillette you know where is it so they're they're just a little bit uh you know it's more concerning and it doesn't affect our zoning and so I think you know we still are zoning is our
zoning and I think the fact that you're in um pa5 which is for environmentally sensitive is I have towns that would kill to be in pa5 because you know you can sort of you have
um not an excuse it's not the right word but defense a defense against you know inappropriate development you can say listen we're in a we're in a environmentally sensitive planning area so it doesn't mean to say in the future if we think about how to once we go
through our own Mar plan recourse work right it doesn't mean to say we can't think about any changes in the future now yeah and and it doesn't preclude you know if you wanted to change any of your zoning or encourage development in any
area that isn't currently being encouraged this has nothing to do with it you can still do that you have full um authority over your own zoning right andless uh with regards to potentially applying for say a grant or funding
through the state does would that designated the lack of a designation potentially hurt us in any way that's a that's a really good question and I think there probably are instances where it helps if you're a designated
Senator probably I I should yes I think that's a fair question I think that's probably true right okay um and then my only other question on that particular topic is there an opportunity down the
road should we decide to punt now on that particular issue to do some kind of an amendment later or is this our last opportunity well I think it's a that's another really good question that I would like to actually follow up with
the county because certainly in 2021 you know the last time they did this every I remember getting it was a CD ROM you know it was sort of like it's done and you're never changing it for 25 years right you know but now it's an
interactive map right and so I don't see why we can't at some future date make that change right but I'd like to check with the county just before I that would be great could help get back to us on that because I think we would want it's
always nice to have the flexibility to return to or revisit something if we can yeah chair a good point um I I I think for sure it's probably something we could revisit I can't see them saying steadfast no you can't once you say no no Center there's noer Stone right so uh
I think what would be beneficial to uh to know is what are the pros and cons right like you said are we getting are we eliminating ourselves from getting any grants um by not doing this uh or
you know it doesn't matter it has no bearing because if you if you look at the way Long Hill is shaped and and how it's constructed we have five four Villages you can you can debate uh the fifth one um and that's really a residential area and having four four
centers it's not a center right so just my and like you said we're covered in our zoning where we highlight each of those Villages so we we're we're covered in that space well we're going to we're going to be looking more detail
at The Villages through ordinances way that's my main point we have already work coming out of the master plan on that cuz Gillette isn't a designated Zone in the town today right so we have inconsistencies as to where we want to go so that's really could be handled
more on a local level I don't know if it really relates back to the state but I don't know what those what's Jette show on the plan Mt nothing nothing intersection so I think it's a evolutionary thing as there's no
negative you check out I'll I'll let me check with the county because I I like I said I feel it's a different world now than the last time we did this and so maybe it's not so set in stone but when I started to look at it and I was like well if we're talking about Sterling what are we talking about are we talking about near the transation are we talking
about along Valley Road you know so I thought well there this may not be as easy you know we may have to it may require more consideration and discussion and the other thing is how many other towns actually doing this process anyhow so are we hurting we're trying to be good citizens yeah we are
we're trying to be constructive right right any other Town done this so fall um none that I'm working on nobody has gotten quite as far there are people working on it but it they got end of this month they' got a few days
to get this done the same number of towns that went to the Morris County that's the only that's the only other Town yeah so I think we can feel comfort as long as I think you're right as long as it doesn't negatively hurt us yeah then just may worth a double check but in terms of the actual principle of
the zoning of the map right the environmental area five or whatever I don't think anybody is disagreeing with that no designation at a larger scale and I think that I think that's really that's really good actually so in some
ways yeah let's not lose that by monua picking elsewhere right unless but something to be conscious of in the future yes so if if we don't make this change and because it means changing the
map now do do do we just strike the references to it or do we change it in a way that it doesn't use the term Town centers I would probably just Nuance the language so it doesn't sound like we're designating you know we're wishing to
designate those areas as centers I think that's probably the right word because we have them as our own village you know certainly for Sterling villon and and downtown we have the concept that's what we're working to we call them Villages mhm we
hadn't designated something formally like a Town Center or wherever the right formality is for the state plan M so I think that could just been Evolution yeah because we may sign that town center is too big a description of myville Hamlet certainly right and we probably may not want to go that far
Sterling mingon Gillette maybe you say yeah right well these they directly correlate to zip codes right well I think it would you want to focus it probably on your commercial right commercial area it's within the ZIP code though I think you're right but
but you probably wouldn't want to the existence of the I mean they're areas but these areas are tagged by ZIP codes three zip Cod correct but then I think what we're talking about something within that that constitutes more of a village it would be you know around a
tighter it's a bullseye it's a bullseye within your ZIP code areas that we think we understand but we've never right this this is Village is designated right there which is the zip is got bigger right the town okay so so coming
back here to what we need to do so the the other question is so this this information is going to be loaded into an electronic portal with the state uh I feel strongly that we want to have something and it seems like this is the
form that it might take that just codifies everything that's kind of going into this portal at least in a document so we have it yes and so and is that the intent of this yes it's actually each
county is doing it a little differently okay so some counties or I think even the highlands it's like a multiple choice you know it's not this sort of process that we have here so Morris County has this okay they ask these questions and then you can put
your answer within that moris county is our negotiate what they call the negotiating entity so moris County then is going to be sort of working directly on our behalf and other municipalities um with the state so we
won't they're kind of our intermediary they're but they call it negotiating entity gotcha yeah okay Mr chairman real quick I was doing some research on the uh the policy map Amendment process so I the rule for this
it's njac 15 col uh 30-8 at se that kind of covers all of the state plan policy map um from what I'm seeing in here I mean it's silent but I don't see anything that restricts U suggestion of an amendment after this process is
completed so okay um I think Liz still might want to double check but from what I can tell I don't see anything that says you can at least not yet I this is curs look at the statute I'm sorry the regul but thank you it it seems logical that you would
it's an evolving exactly this's a whole process for petitioning the uh the state Planning Commission to to do this so there's hearings involved of course but it can you know there's a provision in here that says it can be you know these amendments can be proposed by municipalities or other entities too I
guess even a private group or organization individual could suggest the change as well so Liz are there any other uh areas you wish to highlight other than this the the only Center issue the only other question I had is they they ask for
interested parties and we said of course the planning board and the township committee um is there any other interested party any other organization that I should absolutely put on you know I mean that kind of covers two
large bodies but I just wanted to offer you the well nobody else is appointed so it's difficult to put somebody else's name I think once we go to Township Township committee may not be as you said a requirement for their
opinion is more of education so it's almost it's only the planning board at this point right but I don't know it's up to yeah SC yeah I think the two make sense to me as far as the interested parties yep I think May the environmental commission potential
that's the only other body I can think of yeah I that's what I was wondering but we haven't spoken to them I just can't put their name down personally yeah I I don't think I'd be comfortable a testing right that they put when they haven't seen
it so you're going to update this yes you send it out because we have to present and discuss with the plan Township committee tomorrow night right I'm not sure if there' be any com if there's any comments back then a final comment back to you submit it yep and then we you make a final version so
should be want on the website or how would you like to yeah I think I I think this looks like it's drafted as as as a letter I'm just trying to decide it should be a letter on on on Long Hill Township letterhead let me let me just
um it'll take me a minute oops um but um I'll show you what we probably will wind up doing is doing um like screenshots going into this portal oh that's fine
too and you know and maybe screen documents it better yeah okay create a PDF of that or something like that okay good but again from a transparency standpoint I think it's important that then this go up on the website in regards to how we met the state cross
acceptance requirements right right and we talked about sharing it with his zoning board as well I think last meeting great so let's get that and do we know know I don't know if Deb do we know that this got onto the agenda
for the town committe I'm pretty sure it did I don't know that it maybe think I saw I think I saw it too yeah I didn't check it I was just going to ask committee laer if if he thinks it would be I know that Mr laio said that he was
planning to attend to listen to um the update for uh Flood information that board engineer Township engineer L is going to be get so uh committee lavender do you want to present this to the
committee yourself or do you want Mr lerio to present it to the committee yeah I'd rather that Bob did it yeah okay I was going to go as well so could come up a new business if it's tax yeah we'll show should
right all right so so it's not a surprise that the two of you that will then no no no I figur I can print copies to to distribute so once Liz you'll send me whatever update yeah I'll I'll I could
probably even do it while we're sitting here yeah yeah yeah yeah use it by five o'clock tomorrow is fine yeah yeah okay okay so does this board or any board members have any additional comments to this draft document there are a couple
of edits that need to be made through it right um in section one paragraph 4 where you're talking about um guess it's like the fifth line down where you're talking about the uh Valley Road Redevelopment area it says it's
designated as a commendation area and I think that should be condemnation area oh yes was it commercial question well no because then it goes further and it talks about a non- condemnation area so I thought the
two of them were condemnation no this should be not this should be non- condemnation yeah that that for sure okay that's a big one thank you um and then in the next little the last sentence it says in the
inter room the township committee continues to develop Network I would say a network of trails okay and then in six the the last sentence um talks about the the street
planting program but just as an annual has an annual program I I would have put annual tree program or something okay sure okay um and then in seven which I really like that addition
I think that's a great ad to hit on what we talked about at the meeting and may more ARS County um where the next to last sentence where it says upper Pake watershed area I would have put Pake
River watershed area and then that that one ends some teing through in a couple other spots okay goes in section one as well section section one of uh a numeral one of section two the
second paragraph talks about the upper middle middle pic I would say the upper middle pic River and I think that was it oh and 7 C it it doesn't say shade tree I wrote
over it I wrote shade tree but share tree ohare tree thank you should advisory committee be in there it's not a commission yeah I guess it's that's how they're labeled on the
website El okay please that was it thank you thank you yeah the the piece you added about the the Watershed was pretty succinct and really hit what we tried to tell the county and the state when we
were at the meeting okay great well thank you for read just a quick follow on if unless Pam did you have any comments about that no sorry uh so we're good with that I
think uh Tom has a comment yeah really the thank you uh first of all I want to thank all the uh board members that worked on this uh to get this over the line uh Liz and I want to thank you personally for all the work you did on the master plan because that's what set us up to be in line for this so whether
you saw this coming or inclination or you just happen to be in the right spot at the right time she spk you very much for for all the work in getting the 23 20 2023 master plan ready so congratulations to the
good last comment um I mentioned about Joseph Beretta yeah from Moes County asked we had that separate conversation Bob and I at the meeting he was interested to know how he can maybe help further the conversation with flooding
been a multi- toown situation and he mentioned about previously he had group put together a group of towns to try and address that but that sort of withered a little bit so he led to re um energize that whole discussion so he asked for
definitely a recommendation in the master plan uh the challenge is the Three Counties in just the upper bake River Watershed uh so we've got Cross County exactly challenges there or else we're dealing just with one side of the river
exactly right so he just ask that how floods work right could we drop him an email um and be great maybe we could attach a Cy of this yeah and the main question who wants to do that is that something that should come from the
planner the CH I I would actually say Joe yeah I was Joe V I think might be the right person and I think that you know mind I would like to see Joe and I work with Joe to facilitate you know a discussion
down the road specifically on flooding we want to hear the presentation tomorrow night but there's more to be said about this and especially on the level that we're dealing with on the planning board level so maybe we could have this invite this person to even come to one of our meetings yeah that'd
be nice Okay cool so that'd be great so the ideas for Joe to yeah do that and he'll be here tomorrow night Joe yeah he's gonna be the speaker yeah he's the speaker right okay so maybe we can just briefly touch upon it at some point more with him okay so David just so you will
get that information to Joe yeah once we got this Y and then uh yes and we'll blame Liz for the yes Liz volunteered you yeah well good well I doo want to thank uh the cat team across acceptance
team so they get a acronym too because it can't just be all about the orc but now we're now we're back to the orc so please that's a punt over to me yes all right thank you very much Mr chair um so the orc has started to ramp up the
engine and just want to kind of talk to you a little bit about the pipeline um and some of the things that we've discussed so as we approach each of these ordinances we are looking at the lill township master plan and we're now going to start to incorporate the state
plan as well with all the work that we've done there there are things there that we can use to help us with our uh with our ordinances and and and so forth so the pipeline as it looks today uh tomorrow we have two going to the
township committee for first reading uh and you'll remember this one is the fence where we're changing the height of the fence from 5 feet to 6 feet so that's just to get in line with the uh building code and permits there was also the discussion around signs and what
that sign how how big those signs should be so that too is going uh before the township committee these are small but it gets to uh these are small items maybe people will have a different opinion uh at at public session in first and second reading but nonetheless it's
going to the TC great the other we have three other phases so the first phase is goes sending to the TC the next one is anything that's getting ready for resolution prep uh then we have a discussion point and then there's uh a bucket for awareness items so you know what's coming on the horizon so I'll
take the first piece and then I'll hand it off to uh my colleagues of the orc so the resolution prep we have sheds that we've discussed uh quite a few uh times at length at the end of 2024 and we seem to have hit an impass and the impass was
around the size of the shed the numbers of sheds the uh proximity to setbacks and so forth so I'm going to propose that we revisit that so we pull back those resolutions and um we'll take another attempt at it and then bring it
back to this group for another review the other item that we're working on is house of worship you have a com uh the worksheet in front of you uh and Liz forgive me this is the first time you're seeing the worksheet so um we'll try to uh walk you through but I think it's
pretty self-explanatory um some changes that I've made to the um uh the worksheet is I've included the number of houses of worship that we have and where they're located in town so that you're aware of them uh we have seven um uh chapels
Jehovah Witness Presbyterian Episcopal uh Presbyterian we have two Presbyterians uh St Joseph and also St Vincent and St Vincent does come with a in school um so I've included that and um jumping
all the way to the back uh I'm not going to bore you with all the uh the details of how we got to where we got to but uh in summary what we did was we looked at neighboring towns to see how they address the issue the issue that we have
is we just have a statement about churches and it doesn't cover all the different faiths right and as we see in in the center of Sterling we do have Ramadan that's being observed right so in um alignment with our master plan
as well as state plan we want to show that we are inclusive and that we welcome everybody who wants to be an active productive member of our uh uh Community uh we should be doing that also in writing right so um the first change that I'm going to request is that
we change the churches to house of worship that you'll find in lu11 under general terms and then also expand on the definition of the uh house of worship and it's a building structure or group
of buildings or structures that by design construction configuration and operation are primarily intended for the conduct of organiz organized religious services and customary accessory uses incidental and subordinate to the
principal use of the property so kind of just outlines uh what's happening at that place there are three other lus that need to be uh amended where you change Church to house of worship and that's the uh Heights modification
permitted signs and off street parking so they will change the verbiage from church to house of worship and then we come to number five of what are we trying to address right so what we wanted to do is provide guidelines for um where a house of
worship can be placed and by and by putting an ordinance out saying it's acceptable in all zones but you must follow the bulk standards that exist within those zones right so this way now they
understand they can build but you have guidelines that you have to work with just like every other um resident or Commerce that comes inal they they follow the bu standards you change the bulk standards and applies to
any future uh applications or uh I guess a church would be or house of worship would be an application that comes to forth just like uh uh the shrine did when they had that uh add-on so I tried to lay out uh what that um uh that uh new ordinance should
read and I said a house of worship as defined in Lu uh 11 general terms shall be permitted in any Zone in accordance to the bulk standards and I list that as Lu 130 bulk and supplemental regulations set forth in those zones in addition
accessory uh use customary and incidental to the principal use of the property including a school religious education classrooms daycare center Parish house storage buildings and outdoor recreation areas shall be permitted and um I have some question
about this last part a catering hall or similar use of the property of the property shall not be permitted except for catering services directly related to and associated with religious functions and or Community nonprofit activities held in on the premise and we
know that there are several um other activities that have taken place and I think even as recent today blood drive at um uh uh I want to say at St Vincent's and we've seen that in the past we've also seen a rumage sale that
happened at the uh Church in Gillette just off of um uh mountain and there are other activities that do take place so we want to be inclusive of that but I don't think what we want to do is see car shows showing up at at a church right so or a house of worship I have to work on
that vernacular so that is what I'm proposing there are some other considerations uh that we should be referencing so any conditional use application of procedures any bulk and supplementary regulations and
accessory structures so they need to be considered as well or referenced um and what and in reviewing our neighboring towns the way the ordinance is written currently we're aligned with some of our neighbors
however um Harding really uh thought put a thoughtful ordinance together that even includes um schools now we don't have any ordinance that addresses schools how they're built where they're
built um setbacks Etc when you say schools you're not talking about schools in relate related to the houses of worship now you're we have none for either public or private I would sorry just I would a lot
of times private schools and houses of worship are lumped together because Public Schools there's a limit to what this Bo has jurisdiction over anyway but often times the private schools and the houses of worship as long as you sort of treat them similarly it sort of passes
the arupa so we actually cover that in the way the ordinance has been Rewritten the draft yeah where we're talking about schools so so that actually takes care of this the school's aspect right it's it's another building on premise and it has Educational Services that are being
operated out that yeah right and I think St Vincent used to own the school and now I think it's been sublet out uh and there's uh another organization running it and I still believe it's of the Catholic faith I'm not sure I know it was at one
time but I don't know where it stands today it's an immersion school right it's a Hudson Way immersion school so I don't think it's a Affiliated okay denomination Affiliated okay but so then sublet it out right right and we're and
we're we're accepting that because it's an education it's it's education so that's where I've landed with regards to um the house of worship to uh kind of address and give guidelines uh for anyone who wants to come in and uh
construct a house of faith and happy to take what was your thinking on the outdoor activities I want to unpack that so St Vincent used to outdoor activity right okay so St Vincent's was
uh used to run a carnival a fundraiser outside and that would profit the uh I think those proceeds went to the school at the time now that that school's been sublet it's no longer they're not doing that um I've not seen any
other uh house of worship in town do anything out in the parking lot um but we have seen indoor like a rummage sale or a blood drive we've seen that oh we've seen seen we've seen rubbage sales
outside the one it cascaded out onto the lawn right they had stuff outside and St yeah yeah they just had it and you know we don't need to think of this what's possible in terms of just this town but there are towns that'll do churches will
do a trunk or tree for instance um they may have Outdoor Services they may do a winter carnival or tree lighting right mhm in in fact during Co a lot of the churches went to outside Services erecting tents and other things or I'm
thinking of uh in Sterling there was like a fish and chips dinner outside right so you know I think we need to be mindful that it might be difficult to kind of circumscribe what you can and can't do it might be better to just be
silent there okay right okay and if it becomes a problem in the future because we can live then we deal with it in the future but you know so so you're suggesting you really striking the catering the catering hall well what's
the catering hall yeah that's different know that's the old thing as you get into a definition because I can think of a lot of churches that run you know soup kitchen well the senior center they would sometimes have some kind of buffet or the same thing would happen at the what is what is that over on uh
Myersville Road The Grange the and then you have I know that's not neither of them are houses of worship but they food pantries and St Vincent think of all the wedding receptions I'm thinking that if they have to comply with the bu
standards I don't know if you're concerned with the structure or the activity and if you're concerned with the structure I think you're covered there the activity might be overstepping a little bit without that's my point I think it's a little bit of an overreach we should just remain silent on the I'm happy to pull back I'm absolutely 100%
happy to pull back but are these activities also covered under what would be a special event permit that's what I was just outside of the land res would the come to you normally houses of worship um are governed by the land
ordance for the land for the use when they have activities of any kind normally in my experience un this I my I'm in here that they would have a they would have to request this whether it's a you know outdoor sale or a Tricky Tray or you know a wedding or they would get
a special event part do that now my knowledge well so then it would continue as usual right yeah right so we we can only assume that they're doing that right right exactly and just by updating the land use and any you know anything the board sees but to update the land use as far as what we can govern in land
use you know we can also put that language in there that you know they have to get special yeah right yeah and that's in ordinance already yeah so you have the Lu number because I'm happy to reference that I don't because it's not an Lu oh it's not no it's not an
ordinance General ordinance it's going to be out of the general oh out of the general land La I think you're covered because you have accessory uses customary and incidental and I think some of these things that we're talking about are sort of customary and I think they could fall
under that if it was something where it was like a a rummage sale every day 36 then you could sort of say well that's not customarily you know but I think most of these things the types of things that houses of worship do right yeah right if they're having just dinner or pancake supper or you know what have
you that I don't want to limit trust me trust me these houses of worship don't have the volunteers to carry that out every day yeah so is the consensus from the group that we should strike the last sentence well have a second the I don't think the sentence is talking to this
point it's talking about cing Hall is that what we're looking at so uh property yeah so say in cing hall or similar meaning to my view it's am I treating as a restaurant am I building something that's going to be
nonreligious infect that's what the reason to me of this is is not talking about ramish sales or anything else to be honest my experience in in a pre my previous town that I worked in the there was a house of worship that wanted to use it specifically the church have a business come in there and use it as a
catering hall and they came for a use Fair yeah right that we don't right so that's a whole different yeah they're just cooking for an event for the church that's one thing right you don't s the house people are going to have a problem with this sentence at least the way it's worded
now because of pancake dinners soup dinners fish fries they're going to say like there's this is going to create confusion in my opinion so I think either strike it or or or reward it right I think it's a shall not is the
concern well I think or or catering hall is we it's like catering properties shall not be permitted I I don't I don't know I think it's all right except for catering services I don't honestly see what the point except for catering services directly related to the so
you're not renting it out as a as a business as a restaurant now does community nonprofit activities create a problem that the rumage sale is just raising money for the church itself which is a nonprofit but guys this is a slippery
slope I'm telling you d i just think that it's going to be very hard to pin this down and this is really talking about catering I guess one point I just want to make is is there anything happening
that we're trying to solve for exactly then exit I agree I think that's a good when you're explaining you're losing right right so let's I would say let's take it out okay we can always revisit it if it becomes a problem so right now
if it becomes a problem it comes to me and then it goes to aard so right now there's a question a second right now we we three uses are school education day Center Parish house storage and Outdoor Rec recreational areas right that's a
customary use yeah if we don't include Caton Hall are we so somebody we're silent on it people use it for that going to have to come to us just it's such as these are examples
if it's customary and incidental covers this right I just want make sure we're not I don't want to hurt somebody but C to me is a good thing for churon have a pancake supper do it is it okay I'm going to say it's customary and
yeah but pancake supper you need cooking facilities to support that's not catering yes just because you're cooking isn't catering corre doesn't constitute the a kitchen so it's sort of what if somebody had a a a baptism or something
they had the party in this at the church and there was catering let me ask a question would they have to get a board of health certificate yes I have no idea yeah I me that's that's on the facility itself generally right they have their
insurance purposes so normally happens if they're bringings I mean there there there are definitely rules on food preparation Max Capacity all that so so I don't know I'm F to strike it because it's obviously
more that's what I mean about the slip more concerned do you want okay oh sorry one last thing do you want to do indoor recreational areas too um recreational are just leave it just recreational areas no yeah maybe or just
recreational areas I don't know Indo and outdoor G and and and the way it's written we're not excluding any activities like blood drives and
right way to say that my intent is not to exclude those things correct okay all right great right I hate to stir the pot but I I thought something you don't see this we're talking about food anyway right um You Don't See this too often I don't think in Like Houses of worship
nowadays but um it was just think like burial grounds like if you have an existing I don't know I'm not familiar with any yeah exactly I'm not familiar with any of the you know the churches or houses of worship well St Vincent has the associated but they're all separate separ the cemeter I know other parishes
in other towns have them separate you can't many that are on the property well it's a good question because the zoning board this past year just approved aarum yes those are becoming more important it's the the Catholic church it's a the big complex right yeah but here in town
yeah for St Vincent or Shrine Shrine Shrine okay but that now is governed by the varant use varant right Let's Go All Saints has its um um Garden there where's ashes are
that's true that's an outdoor activity right you can have an indoor activity too it's not a cemetery I think you that's another customer and incident you know I you could potentially get under that umbrella I don't I don't my goal is not to get into the weeds but it's to
provide structure and a little guidance for whatever may come on the horizon that is the goal which is why I brought up the comar because now that's governed by actual resolution of the okay so then so then my proposal um Mr chair is with
these modifications that have just been made I'd like to turn it to Deborah who you whom you see fit whether it's the attorney or uh the planner for drafting up a resolution so that way we can I think Liz had said you were going to do the drafting of the resolutions that's fine that's F fine yeah resol hope done
resu ordinance we have yeah so it's it's drafting the ordinance the ordinance that's fine yeah that's fine then what will Liz drafts drafts the ordinance gives it back do you want it to come back to the board then for one final review in ordinance form yes yes yeah
yeah at least yes yes yes yeah okay because then at that point if there's any updates that need to be made then upon final review then I can send it to the committee okay L are you comfortable with everything here as conversation yeah I think so I I think so
um yeah I mean there's there's probably I Chris there's case law right about whether daycare centers are customarily incidental and I think I've always understood them to be I think they are too yeah okay if you want to can do a little digging just
back for that now now do we at this point with the passing of this Chris do we need a motion no because we're not anywhere even to the point of no I don't think we're for that piece right to go
to I just want as a body though we are agreeing to pass this to the next step this is resolution prep so that means the next piece of article that we see is the actual resolution that's where we start to to do the the official anything
that we decide here comes back one last time yes that's right that's right right that's right that's right because the the TC might have some amendments com ultimately vote on it being not inconsistent correct cool I think
actually you know something you just said that I think we might want to add something like meeting rooms or multi-purpose and the reason I say that is because a lot of um houses of worship do things like they have a that's right aot Boy Scout meetings meeting
rooms well the Boy Scouts or the scouts um I think is their new name um that would be is that a customary use well they there they would be generally they are the church because they're charged
by the church same e okay so then a adult book groups selfhelp group right the the reason I say is because we're talking about spaces right within a building and so I wouldn't want somebody to come in and they have this big
meeting multi-purpose room and we say oh well that's not that's not here that's good yeah so you want to include meeting room is that yeah meeting and we multi-purpose multi-purpose yeah because clubs are coming into churches to use space like
fencing clubs and different things p with Derby okay p with Derby yeah y so what I'll do is I'll I'll send draft uh with these amendments in the worksheet and I'll send the worksheet over to you and then you can do the resolution prep EXC okay thanks Tom good good work all right that
so I'm now anything more on that one okay so I'm going to now turn it over to discussion awareness with regards to ground floor apartments and zones sure so uh you might recall like within the past few years we talked about it when we were drafting the
master plan um that particular in Sterling the issue was raised but I think the consensus was it's probably applicable in Sterling Myers billette and Millington
um that there's a need to address some properties that are just left vacant for many years and the need to address I think like a struggle to keep up with the increase and currently decreased demand for Brick and Mortar type
commercial properties um and then I'd say the third part is the need to address many a majority of the properties in these existing Villages are pre-existing non-conforming allowing ground floor Apartments uh I mean
already existing ground floor Apartments where the ordinance technically prohibits it um so as it's drafted now you'll see on the first page of the ordinance packet it says apartment shall not be located on the ground floor
um same as Tom if you fast forward to the second page in bullet number three we've proposed and updated um a few different changes first addressing the square feet Apartments permitted in SV
GV MV and MH which are all going to be updated in another ordinance uh according to the master plan to reflect Sterling village dillet Village Village and Myersville Hamlet shall be at least 500 ft and shall be no more than 1500
square ft I think if I'm reading my track changes correctly that increases it from a thousand I think Dennis last year raised the issue that many of the units on in Sterling or in in the other Villages are already beyond the thousand square fet so this
kind of brings those into compliance the second part is that apartment shall permitted on the ground floor of any building uh and the or committee with Liz within the past year was brainstorming how to make this more
applicable in today's day and age especially with developers coming in and we're imagining that if you know for the this helps the properties that are there now but then the next line except in buildings containing more than eight
total dwelling units prevents against just developers coming in and building an apartment building right in in Millington or Sterling or whatnot and so that would require uh the first four residential units to be um screened by some sort of retail commercial or other
active use um and then the third part is the gross density I think that was another Point Dennis might have raised and he did the math and forg me that hadn't work out the math in this template but that the current gross density of each lot I think every lot is
technically out of compliance with the way that the um ordinance stands now so this would again bring it into current compliance that the gross density of all apartments on the lot shall not exceed three units per quarter acre um I know I'd say well I don't want to say this as
a matter of fact but I would think the average lot if I'm looking at imagining Sterling is like Max a quarter raker I don't think many of them would be bigger than that um so I guess there's three parts the square foot the apartments and then the
density um we've tossed this around for some time now I welcome any thoughts on opinions and the rest my Cas there for now I think that the interesting thing with the apartments and we'll hear more from
with the flood Presentation tomorrow is the issue around flooding and um there and I don't know if our ordinance was drafted with that intent of of getting Apartments off that
the ground floor because of that or not I I don't know what the history was in regards to to that I don't know if you saw anything in your research let me look into like any like of the if there's anything in you know that
orance was drafted a long time ago but I'll look into that I you're reminding me I want to raise another point that you know David helped being being involved in the state plan uh do you have that quote that I could read David um or do you want to read it uh uh
yeah no yeah you can read it the other part of it is that even in the state plan and we were thinking as not only orc but as the planning board all right the state plan says carefully re-evaluate local land use
policies many older communi that exhibit center-like features have adopted over time inappropriate Suburban Zoning for example Upper Floor residential is frequently not allowed in downtown areas but can create economic demand and activity not just daytime destination so
this refers to Upper Apartments but I think that Long Hill presents a unique opportunity to also consider ground floor Apartments just to create that economic activity like we were discussing just before how we all would love to see Sterling Millington have event thriving downtown but this gives
the flexibility and the option to kind of bounce back and forth depending on what the market demands and maybe by bringing the people then you might have a need for some more bir and moreal property so I just want to raise that but then to your point Don I I agree and I've considered that having lived in
Sterling for so long there's a property that just sold in the flood zone um on Main Avenue I'm forgetting the number and I was even looking at it as a potential property to purchase and I'm thinking about I think about it all the time but um the reality is is like that house is an
existing single family home you know I'd say probably three qus if not like 58 of them right are all already Residential Properties um right so and several of them um sever a couple developers that I've talked to about it
specifically are having issues with the D trying to develop because I think the property you're talking about the K he bought the there's three properties that he wants to that's a different one yeah oh yeah yeah but and and he's having a very hard time with the D because of the
the new raises in the flood plan yeah so you know he wants I mean just so basically if he if people are going to the D and saying I want 10 units the D is coming back and saying you know I want four which is going to cause a lot of problems because that's not
economically feasible for him to develop that so I I I would venture to say that this helps the existing properties without having to be bought by a developer you know what I mean like it allows they might need to come in for
slight variances here and there or maybe even not you know if they're complying with everything else being able to just have flexibility so other reactions my initial reaction is I think I'd rather see the space be utilized
than an empty storefront right uh and we know there's a challenge when it comes to Commerce especially when you're not on the main thir Fair of Valley Road we like how Sterling looks we like the quaintness of it but when I see an empty
storefront in that quaintness it starts to make me think it looks a little it's not a happy place so um I like that we're offering flexibility with parameters you can't just come in and bulldoze the place and just build up
um we're giving our um Property Owners flexibility um and I think and that's addressing that again within parameters uh and we're taking non-conforming uh uh locations or properties and bringing them into
Conformity okay other comments so we're talking about mixed use so you're thinking in terms of residential on the first four business above no you could do either below MH and residential up
top resal up top I don't know so it's giving the flexibility of putting really apartments on the first floor right now ordinance but not restricting commercial right is there anywhere in lill Township
currently that that's being done yes several there's been some approvals from yes I was just pulling right across from Sterling Hotel y I think there's eight units in there that's technical yeah I mean every I mean literally the big the larger
developments other than other than prism that was an overlay M right that that the township worked out so that was an overlay so that's a whole different matter anything else yeah most developers don't want to put
commercial on the first floor anymore because brick and mor going away y so it's been either a combination one across from Sterling Hotel was a combination it's two storefronts with two apartments on the lower level and there in the back right right cuz I came
pictures from the front well the one on Main Avenue is there actually just two one is I think completely vacant and has been for well over 30 years uh the other is vacant on the ground floor with like broken windows and I think the the top
is like possibly like just a what would you call it like several there's several people there like a group house group housing kind of situation boing been again been like that for over 30 years and I think it's an opportunity for reuse and
revitalization uh and repurposing and more flexibility yeah I think we'd all love to see a coffee show I told David I dream of a wine bar on M the people there first with all the free time that I have right lied very exactly and
that's the thing about the the state plan was to repurpose reuse don't build elsewhere if you can do something better and and better with what you've got so how can you make that how can you help that who's got who's got the devil's
argument uh uh the other side of the conversation yeah like we're all being very supportive of it but who who's got the other side well I'm just thinking of like the empty properties that come to mind like um the Chase Bank the corner
of Avenue and Valley somebody says make that my res that's it's outside z z because it follows the land use on that one right and I don't believe that's I don't believe that's zoned as a
sterling valid question yeah Bank locations are are can be very similar what you just saw with the PNC Bank corre because as the drive they will be commercial because you know a lot of the the drivethru comp because they're Standalone they're perfect and this
particular town is well suited for something like that because it's Valley Road yeah commercial you're not going to put a Wendy or a Cho Belling on Main Street right so and another minor point about Sterling Village is within that historic
designation informally maybe but the point is that's something that says re use with what we got don't redevelop it overly necessarily so how do we make it functional so so give more
flexibility sounds like go there's still a BD District the Valley Mall that's BD I have to look at the zoning map there is another Zone in our ordinance that would be much more strictly um business but this
is what we call so the challenge I think that we might start to see when we include more residents is parking I agree with that that is I think where we're going to start to find a challenge
like and I don't disagree with you but I'm just like it's happening now like like everybody's living and Sterling already like it's like there's nothing's going to be changing that much I would venture to say except but it'll be the overnight parking right because you're going to have people living there as
opposed to somebody stopping for a half an hour an hour an hour and a half and then leaving no I'm saying people are living there already there's not that many properties that AR living that's my only I AG I would completely agree with you if we were looking at um an area that is all
business right now and suddenly was going to become all residential okay but it's a we should keep an eye on or whatever thank you would the property have parking that's not off street parking do you think these properties do they currently I think most of them have
driveways and actually what I've noticed is like the one I was saying that just sold on Main Avenue it's like in the back back behind the house there's tends to be like um a driveway in and then like a little par I thought that was a requirement it might be I thought it was a requirement for the businesses there
that they had to have parking to have parking and parking in the back right CU they all have that we're looking and there's no street parking right and that's there needs to be some parking capabilities that's I think I'm trying to play Devil's
Advocate no I you have ex already it might already it might exist as just that that there's some parking considerations yeah agree and well most of the developments that specifically the zoning boards approved like again with residential on the first floor up
to this point I mean they've met the parking requirements okay that's a good litness test then right and primarily because you're most of these developers are coming in and either building something from scratch right or they're removing like on Main Street across from St Hotel he's going to be removing the
buildings and combining and creating the you know in front and have enough parking in the rear so that's yeah that kind of s so you would want to tighten up how they could potentially break the curb right because you don't want everything in there with like a drive
under carport MH yeah so so I think parking needs aity the other thing uh Teresa I'm I'm trying to reconcile the screen and what that's going to entail the screening from the street is that a
vegetative screen is that a burm I mean in some instances you may not be able to have any kind of screen the way things are set back from the street is that so is that a prerequisite to be able to put your first floor with this ordinance to put your
first floor apartment that off of what the property on Main Avenue was anticipating um and they met those well I guess they variance anyway for them but but it's it's architectural screening and so it's either okay so
that's that's what I didn't quite understand and by I mean it's a whatever it maybe it's not like the best word but it it's sort of saying you know in order to as you have in here to activate or to keep that streetcape active I mean it would be great if it was a wine bar but
okay it may not be what are we okay with and you know in some instances I think I've I've seen in in bigger downtowns they're now putting like the building's gym on the ground floor because there's not enough you know
retail space to you know demand but they're putting something that's sort of visually interesting I guess to watch people work out you know while you're walking see game rooms on or or something like that it just so it's a little bit right you're masking that the
ground floor is okay so that's what you mean by screen cuz I immediately went to something that's visually you know impeding my ability to see that it's a first floor apartment was I maybe mask Mas masking might be
the right a word but anyway it was sort of to just kind of keep first FL ground Flor and the other has anybody discussing these zones too if we're talking about you know making it more welcoming for developers to come in especially in some of these commercial zones one of the other issues of other
than not being allowed to do a residential on the first floor it's the height and I'm not saying you know I know there's been a lot of discussion of height but the one thing that always you know kills developers coming is the two and a half stories so most of these buildings that have been approved are
minimum three stories obviously the one across from three stories M so that doesn't you know it doesn't mean that it's a 45 50 foot high building but CU they still need to come in for that they still need to come in for use for that so but I think to David's point and I
think what you're saying Deb is like this is really just like confirming what exists and repurposing what we have and not attempting to allow exactly what you're I don't think this allows what you're describing at all no not at all so um and and a lot of
again from and bliz and Chris correct G if I'm wrong when a developers coming in to look at a property the things that they're going to look at number one is which board they're going to go to oh yeah if they're going to the zoning board they don't want to go to the zoning board because the zoning board can say no if you were putting these
ordinances in places let's just say making in business certain business zones you're allowing three stories that's more that's more appealing if you're allowing um residential on and again it doesn't have to be in every single District maybe you pick the one you're talking about right now but just
these little changes that brings an application to you guys which as we all know is primarily as of right and that's much more appealing to a developer to come into a planning board versus his AR because we're nicer that'll be very upset I think just
sorry just but this whole sentence needs to be reworked any H doesn't it in such cases any first floor residential never so we were we're going to change to where more than a dwelling units exist any first floor residential unit and first floor is not ground floor this is
first Flor now okay ground floor but that's what I'm asking is this supposed to mean is this meaning ground or is this so first that is ground because that's why it gets more confusing thank you I appreciate no that's a good point and then that in such cases will be
struck yeah I don't know but okay so yeah go ahead another comment so so I have I have a comment a question um so how does somebody meet
the standard to say what what do they have to prove in order to say I want to convert uh first floor to an apartment somebody moves out Friday Monday I come in and I want to turn it into an
apartment um what's going to be the trigger for that how how quickly can that happen um is there a due diligence process are they trying to Market it as a as a uh commercial property
or are they going to be allowed to just say I give up and just turn in it to apartment I think if you're talking about the few properties that are in fact are commercial and would need to I think you're saying change the layout let's say as an example like if the
Sterling Hotel decided they wanted to like gut the place and turn it into Apartments they would need to comply with I think I don't know if it I would assume our it's our ordinance that designates or just state law that designates what can be a Dwelling Place
it needs to have kitchen a bathroom it's really very simple on the back side for procedure wise because uh good example is we just had the zoning board just had for 329 Maine yep he he's had vacant commercial prop baking commercial space there for years and he came to the board
finally and said you know what I I I can't find any commercial tenants I want to do all residential so if you allow that in the ordinance it's literally just just as simple as com to the zoning officer and to the construction department just to change the use so uh
an owner will come to the zoning officer and say okay you know what I'm done with this commercial space we're going to turn it into residential okay if that's allowed under the code great I give you the zoning permit you just go to construction and then they change the Interior right so so I understand that
piece that's the easy piece of you just have to have meet all the requirements for it to be a residence what I what I'm talking about is the decision to to just convert something and is it totally up to the
current owner to to say you know Monday I want to turn it into an apartment 100% up to okay just construction permits to do right so it gets construction permits to do it but you can do that as the owner wants the ordinance that's right okay that that's what I want to make
sure yeah just wanted to bring up one thing I I was trying to find it is on the ordinance specifically says on MAV in the what would become the Sterling Zone but was currently the B15 the um properties only have to
provide 50% of the number of off street parking spaces oh okay so you just I mean I don't know just based on this conversation if that's something that the board would want to revisit or if that's okay well that might go into your other impacted ordinances that needs to
be like reviewed and and assessed you said right on street parking um the number of off they say off street parking off Street okay so I um what's the number oh um
51.1 but the problem then is where does the other 50 where do the other 50% go that becomes on street parking how' they handle it in Shore towns parking street parking yeah but if you have a 2our
limit not necessarily sterling sterling you rent a property it tells you how many you get like front and then you get two in the back but stud doesn't have that right down Main Street has 2hour parking yeah so you can't park on the
street overnight all right uh just just for the sake of time we do have one more that uh Teresa has to uh to review and then I'll give an update on will uh the zoning for all the different zones oh okay it's not in here oh it's not in here do you just want to give an
awareness then and it's very simple um so for what you what we can do is actually look at the ground floor Apartments as an example and the best one let's go to the front page and you'll see how it says Apartments permitted in
B15 b120 MH and M B15 is Sterling Village and don't quote me exactly but I think it's like Sterling Village and Gillette Village I think b120 is Millington Village or maybe it's vice versa and
then MH is the Hamlet so there's many ordinances at the beginning of our land use ordinances that spell out the names of our zones the titles and we just want to clean those all up there's really no substantive changes in any no
it's aligning with the master plan because those are the changes that we put in the master plan was going to bring that up because or else you're going to be rewriting them again so I would get that order of that I would get that one out of the way yeah I actually have it drafted it's and
so B15 is going to become SV and b120 is going to become envy and it's going to be much more consistent I would I personally would be very comfortable if the board's comfortable with passing that to um Liz and prep that one now
because I don't think there's there shouldn't be any real discussion it's consistent with the master plan Zone didn't change can I ask one favor though before I do that was there was um one or two overlays that I did a
search of that I don't even think exist and so I want to strike yeah it was like an I'm sorry yeah so I almost just wanted somebody to double check well and I don't know if Liz that is should that
be I know Joe was working pretty diligently on the zoning Maps right so I think Joe would be your best resource to look for these overlays because he did an exhaustive search before you go to Joe go to Randy
bar ask Randy bar and then Randy will get that information for you okay I just that that was the only real reason why I wanted it to come to the with somebody to just kind of almost good no I think that's a good idea great thank you six weeks before it finally makes it into
the oh absolutely but I think that is a priority I agree yeah because there's dve tailing on that okay cool thank you and then um Mr Mitchell who's not here tonight uh we assigned him the maximum setbacks for the BD Zone which is along
Valley Road uh to start looking at that because we it it's a bit of a Technicolor dream coat with all kinds of buildings and commercial and residential looking and some are right on the road some are set off the road I mean you
have uh Mike's Music shop I love the little building but it's right on the road the same thing with the um uh Prim Vera it's right on the road you know try and get in out of that anyway and it's all about future developments of what's going to happen in future we're not
telling anyone today that you need to move your building back right but it's um that's what we've asked uh will to take a look at so he's going to take that forward and we'll come back to us at next time is at a meeting to either give us personally the update or he'll pass it to one of us and we'll provide
an update on that great that's all we got very good excellent thank you great work work see it's see Works uh is there any other uh new business I just have one item and that is as we're kind of coming off of cat uh
looking for some additional uh things to get involved with I don't want to forget our important role in Lea oning with some of the other uh committees and commissions uh in town I think uh we we had an initial flurry at the beginning
of the year I think we need to check back in uh and so I will be looking for volunteers I know you've been involved with the open space y uh I'd like to return to the environmental commission and see how they're doing and anybody
else who would like to volunteer for shade tree I think you're they they bumped it up this month to a different date that I could have made so just right uh and then it's always good to check in with hbac uh also well I I
might do recreational Recreation I do I that Mark conversation for and to for some guidance remember um we're there as the owners of the master plan and that's what we're trying to help everyone keep the vision on right
right and and please give the chair is a heads up if you're going I think it's just out of courtesy uh to get on the agenda and uh just just to be able to speak uh with regards in front of the committee about that very thing to
reinforce that uh but not to it's not we're not trying to come in with a forceful hand we're just coming in to gently uh help guide and and remind folks uh of of some of the master plan recommendation messages back from them back to us corre right it's a two-way
conversation so you know let's say over the next two months depending on meetings that maybe we could return back for report say in within two months as far as how things are going I'd like to catch meetings before kind of the summer season uh and and meetings aren't as
regular so kind of catch folks in the spring so there's two there's um he said environmental the we yes I did say I I said I would space h
right yeah SO3 so who wants to do HP I didn't hear anybody jump up I know Scott you're the Lea's on there but maybe if you'd like we could have somebody join you I'll do it yeah okay call they're a committee right they're a
committee H they're a committee not a commission that's right okay and I checked the master plan they are listed as a committee so yeah very helpful good okay any uh um new business uh just a comment coming down from the TC uh
Deputy Mayor cersa just wanted to extend his thank you and gratitude for all the work that we're doing here on the planning board so uh he asked me to pass that message along so great thank message passed great don't the messenger yeah don't get too cocky
right okay if uh there's no other business I'll uh accept a motion to adjourn so move second all in favor hi