##VIDEO ID:_wIQ6Dk3w7g## e e e e e e e there's a catch at the end I'm sure ladies and gentlemen we are on the air like to call to order the meeting of the lill township planning board uh November 12th 2024 could we have the announcements please yes 7:33 p.m. good evening everyone okay call to order and statement of compliance adequate notice if this meeting or hearing has been provided by posting a copy of the public meeting hearing dates on the municipal bulletin board and website by sending a copy to the echo Sentinel newspaper and by filing a copy with the municipal clerk number two standard board procedures any meeting or hearing conducted by the board is a quasi judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and decorum appropriate to a Judicial meeting or hearing must be maintained at all times number three meeting cut off announcement is made that that as a matter of procedure it is the intention of the planning board not to continue any matter past 10:30 p.m. at any regular or special meeting or hearing of the board unless a motion is passed by the members then present to extend the meeting or hearing to a later specified cut off time number four electronic devices all in attendant are asked to mute cell phones or any electronic devices as do not interfere with the proceedings number five Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the repblic for it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all Deputy Mayor Lavender is excused this evening m d pres Mr Hans here Mr malinowski here Mr Mitchell uh president Mr opala is excused this evening Mr sand here Vice chairman Jones president chairman Richardson here chairman we have excellent thank you okay our first uh item our meeting minutes uh I'm going to give you a opportunity they're fairly short we do apologize in regards to getting these out ahead of the meeting which is June 25th and 10 were sent out were're sent out it was just and then we do not have in the packet though September 24th that you're still working on so thank you for that clarification um if you could please just take a moment to make sure they're accurate and then we'll take motion motions on each of these that's I didn't see any issues Mr chairman open okay do everybody else had a chance to look at both of these just as we make a motion and and we vote there's going to be a couple of uh those I cannot yes that's mostly on the September 10th okay so is there a motion let's start with June 25th is there a motion to accept the meeting minutes is June 25th yeah second good okay uh do we have a motion to accept the September 10th meeting minutes motion to Second yeah I was going to say second with the excuse of Teresa and Dennis on this one right all in favor I okay great motions Carri uh the next set of business items are [Applause] applications and we have an extension request for a minor subdivision it's block 12806 lot 2157 Dogwood ter Terrace application number 23-10 P uh Mr turny could you please just give us a status as to this extension absolutely Mr chairman so actually similar set of facts for both of the extension requests on the agenda tonight guys um both of them deal with minor subdivisions the applicants in both of these situations are seeking an extension of the 190 day filing deadline that's the deadline between the adoption of the resolution to when you need to have your uh your final plat reported um as I was saying it's 190 Day by by default under the mlul but that does provide for up to a one-year extension if so granted by the board it's a very low standard to reach you just have to basically just has to be reasonable under the circumstances and they have to demonstrate that they were barred from getting the approval for one reason or another um you know in the event you don't grant them the extension they would have to come back and redo the entire application so that reason might not be the best um so that's uh that's kind of the situation for both for benabe they're seeking I believe it's a uh 30-day extension and they also I'll mention you can seek the you can request these extensions after the fact so like you know for ferano for example they they're expired on October 31st we got the letter from them on November 4th with the m does permit you know postao extension um and that one they're seeking a 20-day to November 20th so uh that's it in the nutshell if anybody has any questions I'd be happy to answer them I have a question yes sir at uh at the third line of the second page the applicant which application which which application the Dogwood application okay third line second page it say says here that the applicant has demonstrated that it was barred or prevented from filing with the county on what grounds does the county prevent or ban a filing I thought the county recorded whatever it was told the record I don't believe that they that's stating that the county was baring them Mr Sando I believe that just what that's saying is that in general they were bar to prevented from filing with the county the county they have to file with the county they were bar to prevent it for other purposes not that the county was blocking so the fact that they were barred or prevented from filing with the county is simply incidental to the fact that something else was blocking them and so they couldn't get around to filing with and and I don't know whether the word is filing or recording they're synonymous with each other in this context um but I mean are are they truly synonymous or are you just making that up I tell you my understanding they're synonymous in this in this context I mean recording is something that that there is no one has the ability to prevent a recording m i can record anything in with the county clerk uh but a filing suggests that there is an option to reject and it I don't know what that option would be in this case so I'm questioning the use of the word recording uh or the use of the word filing to uh well to Mr Sandos point to make it clear I see no issue with amending to to sa recording instead of filing does is that now clear from your perspective because that is a little confusing in regards to is it the county preventing this action or is it the application that's not ready to be filed so what evidence do they give for request I will uh receive a letter from their attorney dated October 21st I'll I'll read this um uh Dear Miss says you know this firm represents uh the applicants in connection with the above reference matter I'm paraphrasing just a little bit here it has come to my attention that the 190 day deadline is set forth in njsa 40 call 55 D- 47d for the recording of the subdivision deed lapsed on October 16th I'm therefore writing a respectfully request that the planning board issue a resolution briefly extending the time for the recording of the subdivision deed uh we respectfully request an extension of 30 days from the date of the sub of the resolution extending time for recording to ensure sufficient time for execution of the deed by the board and our clients in the reporting of same with the Morris County Clerk so that's all they've really put no explanation record recording so have to agree with that point but did I miss it there was no explanation as to why would they just missed the date I I don't see an explanation in here to be quite Frank with you I yeah I'll be fine just a change to record and then just to get in line with what they've said m is that standard practice that they don't give us a reason for why if you feel something more tangible I we could certainly request that they provide request additional information if you don't feel comfortable acting on it tonight I'd like to know why okay that's fair is a that's where I'm at okay before voting to extend I and and right as I said before you can grant these postao so even if the board doesn't act on it tonight doesn't really hold them up as long as no you know right yeah so um if that's the case I could I don't want to put words on anyone else by on the bo is there any other questions or comments on this I I do um I want because I'm trying to see I don't know if it matters who was present or not if we can be eligible to vote on it and I'm I think a lot I think a bunch of the dates might be off so I don't know which one you want to take first but are are you referring to the Dogwood application I think they both are off so if you want to start with the Dogwood yeah I believe the hearing date was the 27th of I'm sorry February because it looks like the 13th was cancelled oh and then I'm not sure about the resolution I can check in a second those should be dated sorry today so this is the 27th and then you've got minor subdivision and I'm trying to figure I'm trying to figure out personally if I was here or not and then because I know I've been away a few times and then M real quick so on the first page the hearing date and resolution those should actually reflect today's date because the resolution is we're talking about this resolution not the resolution that was initially approved but you're still correcting the fact that they're off because it should be today's date not February 13th in okay sure well because that was my next question is then why is this one slightly different where it says board action and memorialization both listed as November 12th the the reason for the difference is that the one for Dogwood was drafted by one of our paral leals and the other one was drafted by myself which one did you do uh ferano the one the one that's much longer and the one that has November dates yes and then within the body of the within the body of the actual extension it says April 9th and April 24th for ferano and it says April 9th for Dogwood so maybe we can just confirm those sure from the dates on that's board's resolution date right that might be right I'm just in light of the I'm just there's a bunch of different dates I I can't speak to the drafting of of the one for Dogwood to watch other than like I said one of the paralal at our firm put that together but the one for ferano I did put that together and I did confirm from the original resolution that dates on there do line up so then under vote on resolution my name is missing right that's that the other thing I was going to say might be outdated uh signat put charts in okay yeah do you I usually do it okay all right yeah just kind of a place Scher thing for the most part also have oh right that's right you don't have to and then you're checking to see attendance and who's eligible to yes so I Norm what I normally do and I didn't have time tonight so I I usually fix the chart and put the you know I didn't look at the dates Le yeah right so like if the hearing was on April 9th and I I wasn't here M can I vote on this yes so as long as you weren't as long as you weren't recused from hearing the initial application for a conflict or something you can still vote on an EXT whether if you so then I guess it's just fixing the date it's it's not wait she wasn't here for the hearing vo on the original on the 9th on April 9th I wasn't here no but I don't think it was on the was it well ferano says pertaining to a minor subdivision approval granted on April 9th mhm yeah Fano the the board voted to approve it on the 9th and then adopted the resolution on the4 yeah Fano I did not have you teres but I did have you for the which is why I think I remember that one and I don't remember F okay B may have been yeah the resolution was adopted on the 9th but the the actual hearing date must have been February February no February 27th oh okay yeah I don't know what happened with that and I apologize we we're gonna clean that up make sure accurate so I think I mean we need to be consistent with these obviously even even the headings are not consistent understood Mr chair like the again the one for bab was done before yeah I got yeah all right so and so you're going to draft these and have these available for the next meeting yeah I will fix benab and then I'll also ask applicants Council to give us a little more explanation as to why they haven't been able to yes get this reported to myself Mr chairman the next meeting isn't for another four weeks this is going to be and these both have effective dates next week so approving them four weeks from now is going to be who cares how do we keep these in compliance okay so let's let's go back to ferano first then I'll come back to Ben so with ferano if everybody agrees that they have provided sufficient reason to justify the extension we can vote to Grant the extension tonight and then memorialize the resolution at the next meeting that way they're authorized they have the extension but it's not actually you know written down until you know the next meeting so to speak with benby I think we need we can't vote on anything at this point due to the you know board members wanting a little bit more explanation as to why they're even requesting this to begin with plus the very some of the more formatting issues let's say um so with that I I'll talk to applicant Council he's going to have to provide me with something in writing anyway presumably he'll request a further extension if so needed um if we do it for one didn't we have to do it for the other yeah the same statute reference I think we I don't care but I think if you're going to go why we got do them both as the reasons why well both of them don't say why why is well with Fano the reason they gave is that they have everything done but they're still waiting for the board engineer Joe to sign off on so Joe V hasn't signed off is that what you we didn't hear you say that yes that's yeah well I was giving in the beginning I was speaking generally speaking but yes but that one they um they did give a Reas so you're comfortable with I'm comfortable with that one yes the other one they should give us does anyone know why the board engineer is delinquent has anyone asked him has anyone pursued him I know the board engineer got a bunch of projects in Flight right now so he might be other priorities and swamped I did speak to the board engineer he's also the township engineer yes so he's doing this stuff he's doing the Zoning Board of adjustment stuff and is he being paid by the board and by the township to do this job he gets paid for his time here he gets paid time for zoning board and he also gets paid uh by the township when he's in office work so there's no question about whether or not he should be able to find the time to do his job you know I could split hairs with that I have the same uh problem at work for my full-time job where I actually do get paid and I have a lot of different priorities coming from a lot of different areas so Joe to his defense has got three bosses well that's just here I don't know represents other municipalities I don't know with the extent of his work could prioritization thing I it's not uncommon to to to see these types of situations arise you know I I can't recall if these properties were on a on a county road but you know sometimes the county will hold you up and trying to get something done um you know that's why but there we know is Joe V right so right so it's on him to get it done all right so let's let's bring this to a conclusion in regards to then what we need to do to maintain compliance is your suggesting still that we vote to approve my my advice Mr chairman under the circumstances um I would suggest that the board table the um Dogwood extension um but with the ferano Family Trust extension request uh move to Grant the extension I I in my legal opinion I think they provided sufficient reason to justify the extension um so move and vote to Grant the extension tonight but then act on a resolution of the next meeting which is four weeks from now right um and actually to that point um right so so we need to clean up the uh the signature block but were there any other edits to that ferano resolution that anybody had because otherwise I think we could just adopt as amended and then you know clean it up and pull out the signature boxs and we would have to hold them up fine and I'll make sure the uh if anyone if everyone approves of the form format for this one I'll make sure the beny one matches this in terms of uh is it just standard to have the whereas Clauses all list the different grounds that you can seek the extension on because it lists the same grounds as being barred or prevented by the county is that just like where do you where do you see that from the count on page 204 yeah which which paragraph the second paragraph yeah and if it's just if each paragraph is just listing the different grounds and okay I'm just making sure that it's it I try to set the stage for what's being anticipated right so with this one spe specifically you know start from the first page you know first paragraph that's just explaining the property what the you know the approval was setting you know the approval dates because they're going to get referenced later on um second paragraph you know that that's what the ML and the township ordinance provides for you know when the expiration date will be um then next paragraph says you know the board can grant the extension under these circumstances the next paragraph the board can grant an extension even after it would have otherwise expired then you know explain what the attorney wrote in their letter and then finally you know the board by a vote of however and then the final couple paragraphs well second last paragraph is you know making sure that the extension subject all the conditions of their original approval and then finally the vote at the end so the difference the second paragraph on the second page is that it says it's being prevented by other governmental or quasi governmental entities it doesn't specifically say the county correct and so in this case that is the that's the standard they have to meet no I'm I'm specifically in this case that's the engineer yes yes yes yes yes correct yes and just to double check the box is going this this resolution box is going right yeah I'll let clean that up she she's got her system I and the practice is not to say in this example it's the township engineer that's holding up the process it's better to read that out of a letter as to the rationale as to why it's being held up it does say on the last where second to last where yeah the resolution should should memorialize why it is that so we just what the grounds are that the board finds is sufficient right yeah so you just need to do the same with the first this one says particularly approvals of the board professionals right well in Joe's defense too there A lot of times I can't not here but you know but a lot of times he is very very diligently working to get these things done but if he suggesting that there are changes or I know one of these and again I don't remember the top of my head he went back and said the meets and Bounds were off so he could be waiting for their engineer to me there are any new it could be something in flight but it's with him he's so I I don't think we should put well that's that's also why I said we're professionals because I don't want to throw Joe individually the bus also you know my office has to us an explanation fine but we absolutely need to know what that ISS what what's holding exactly yeah there has to be again you got to have some kind of grounds to extension and I'm just being because these two are in front of us at the same time I'm just trying to understand the differences between the two that's all and they're and we've agreed that they're not consistent and that's something you're going to yeah I'll make sure that the the benab one matches the as long as everyone's okay with how ferano looks I'll make sure it looks I think so okay so one template so then we need to um make a motion to accept the motion to Grant the extension request F and adopt the resolution that's the motion okay should be the motion that's application number 245 P correct yeah correct there motion I second it Jones yes Mr H yes m d yes Mr malanowski yes Mr Mitchell uh yes Mr sand yes and chairman Richardson yes okay um as far as benby goes I don't think it's necessary but it might be a good idea to just have a motion to table that until the next meeting okay is there a motion to so motion to table application number just just a question with that so at the next meeting we'll look to approve something that's going have already been submitted well and reported because they're looking for a date of November 20th to record it right so we grant them an extension right okay right yeah yeah it can be an postao extension yes y in the event you don't Grant the extension then they got a problem they have to unrec everything that's a whole separate process and for the record the carry date will be to December 10th right so motion to accept uh to table sorry to table application number 23-10 PM Papa to future date as stated by December 10th December 10th second thank you hi hi hi okay I'm sorry I'm a little belated in asking this question but these were scheduled for the 22nd and they were carried to tonight but we didn't meet on the 22nd in order to vote publicly on carrying them I know they were public the dates were published but a question for councel what is the authority to carry a hearing to a later date without actually agreeing in in an open meeting to do that the circumstances of this one I'm trying to recall Mr Sandow but I know we did post we had the notice posted so it was effectively carried not requiring any further notice um to go back to I can't recall I don't want to throw anybody in the bus but Mr chairman did you authorize the the carrying that the details well both applications were carried um I think we were having an issue with possible attendance and so our board attorney Warner had said we are we can cancel the meeting as long as we post certain things I posted in the newspaper EO Sentinel car I posted uh on the front doors of the buildings um and we sent out an email blast so I think Noti no I'm I'm not challenging that you did all those things the question is is that lawful to substitute your judgement for the Judgment of the board as a whole who's the you who's the your H who's the your your judgment who's the your legal councel right was Deborah made those announcements in all the right places but the board did not agree to carry the the applications the board could not be met the board could not have a quorum because we did not have enough members so I think at that point you used your authoritative power to carry there are remedies for that well they weren't excise that day yeah I'd have to defer to Steve I quite frankly I was you know he kind of handled the the carrying Steve gave the guidance he gave the legal guidance and we followed right and if I know one thing about Steve he doesn't do anything without it being completely 100% legal so next okay yeah uh next we have Mr chair quick on that note um is the board okay with carrying these matters again to December 10th because we have to make the announcement just you know formally for the dog one no for um well now we're talking about the next two applications yeah the two minor site plan applications the two minor site plan applications only yeah I think we're done with exensions right all right so let me just formally announce so we have two minor site plan carries one is for Block 14602 l 10 Zone m-h this is for 632 Myersville Road application number 24-16 P the second is also for a minor site plan carry for Block 11612 lot 9 in the zone o office at 1390 Valley Road application number 24-12 P can you give Mr attorne thank you Mr chairman yes all right yes so to the public out there if you're if you're here for either of those applications they're going to be carried to December 10th 2024 uh 7:30 p.m. here in the municipal town hall building um no further notice will be required either by publication or by certified mail or personal service and that's the notice so great we're good to go and so we should do a motion yes to carry these two applications do I hear a motion so moved a second all in favor okay great um all right we're we're done with the applications I items uh any update Mr Jones on ordinance no I've not um I've not been working on ordinance for the last six weeks due to uh work rated uh items that needed my attention so uh I have failed in that spot well and I think the where we left a few of them Liz was also doing some further research you're being yeah you're being far too hard on it wasn't just you there were a few things that Liz was looking into also we were right so I I think then the better question on ordinance review is is is what's the game plan through the balance of the Year given the fact that we really only have one more meeting so we're going to follow up on the open items that we have that are in Flight um and just try to take those to the finish line for this year it's only I think three things that we have uh that we're trying to close out um and then we'll close out the year there might three or four things that will work and one of them is quite substantial really the downtown Sterling one that's not a small task some of you know shz is not as small but that one in particular is not going to be a five minute thing and we're looking at the uh zoning renaming um old and new that we have in our um in our master plan so we would like to apply those obviously that requires coordination with Joe v Joe V has a couple of things just coming from us on the ordinance uh uh Review Committee so there's his workload uh as well as coming from his other two bosses great okay okay thanks for the update uh so moving on any old or new business before the board yes Mr Sandow there's been some chatter among the public about the new affordable housing numbers that were w recommended by some commission somewhere they are apparently not mandatory apparently the town has the authority or the ability to challenge the numbers because they are only recommendations and it's not clear to me exactly what happens after January 31st if we do or do not challenge the recommendations at any rate the chatter that's been going on suggests that maybe if the town has to provide additional affordable housing units in this next round that that would automatically change the master plan and I think we should be clear to the public that nothing automatically changes the master plan except a new master plan right and the the affordable housing requirements that come along every few years have to be handled by ordinance or by Pilot or by some combination of variances uh within the broad scope of the existing master plan now it turns out that the master plan housing element is not new last year year it actually dates from 2016 I believe 18 18 and perhaps sooner or later we should be coordinating with the town about their plans for this new round number as to whether they're going to accept the recommendation or not and perhaps get on with changing or updating the housing element which in last round of master plan we decided not to change because it had been part of the Court settlement agreement in Fair Share did I get all that right sounds about right to me yeah no it it sounds right and you sold my thunder a little bit because that is going to happen in regards to we have to adopt a housing element in Fair Share Plan by June 30th that is mandated because that is five years from the fair share settlements okay correct and so also I recall that at the last Township committee meeting there was a statement made that there was a committee being formed to deal with affirmative action and at this time it only includes employees and and town officials but we need to put somebody on it from the ma from the planning board you heard that yes affirmative action was the is the the initiative in that regards yes you said affirmative action not oh I'm sorry I I I I should yes affordable I'm sorry thank you thank you for correcting me yes at any rate um at least we seem to be in a position of getting a vote just for the record the township used to have in its ordinance an affordable housing committee right which did almost nothing until it was disbanded 5 years ago right and now it appears to be being recreated no no my understanding is you are the representative for the planning board that is absolutely correct Mr Jones is on that board and attending meetings and that was socialized in the uh one TC meetings yep memorialized right correct so we do have representation there just out of curiosity Dennis which residents were bringing that up I don't think it's appropriate to answer that question in public meeting SC and and U and these were not recorded in any public hearings at township committee no just more Scuttle it's it's just a misunderstanding that that anything we do do automatically changes the master plan and that misunderstanding has to be squelched right well I think we've done that tonight at least on record I should hope so if you're listening out there it's all those in attendance I also suggest that Resident who's made that comment should go to the TC meeting and raise it there please so we can get it on record that's right address it that's exactly correct Tom is anything you can say or speak to that Comm I would not I would not want to recommend that any misunderstanding that any citizen has should be brought to the planning board meeting I didn't say planning board I said to the T exactly all right any uh New or Old business yes Madam Secretary suggest that uh for December 10th um we have our board planner and our board attorney yes note the procedures going into Round 4 housing and what the board is responsible for and some background about what is going on behind the scenes and discussions between uh committees that have been formed employees I've been working I think that's I think that's an excellent idea could you make sure that gets on the agenda to have an update between myself our board attorney either Chris or I and Liz it would be really helpful I think to the board if even some references or background materials could be shared before the meeting so we could come a little bit better informed on the process for us universally here other thing that I had Mr chairman is I will have on December 10th I have the draft uh meeting dates for 2025 for anybody so all right uh is anybody here have a conflict this is an important meeting December 10th that's setting up I'm trying to figure it out right now because I'm I'm have a work thing but gotcha okay I'm trying to actually look right now all right just again let us know but just in advance it would be nice to to know as soon as possible if we're going to have any challenges there so I just wonder if it's worth recirculating the agreement the affordable housing agreement it's online yeah just just want to make it easy to you may not be familiar with it so just make sure and if you go to the you go to the master plan page all the elements sear so you can goir share and just make sure we've done in 2018 reminds ourselves which I'm under the impression Chris correct me if I'm wrong but if we need to update we don't do a full update of the master plan we just do those two El yeah you just do yeah one or two elements you might want to have someone take a look at the website because I'm getting an account suspended when I click on master plan fun we are it's understanding we're going into server too years okay so download it now you have disappears any any other items to bring before the board this evening yes Mr Jones yeah I just have one item uh and this is really about yesterday uh yesterday was Veterans Day so I just want to give a shout out and a big thank you to all the veterans out there the veterans on the planning board those that have served those that have serving those are about to serve um and families of there and absolutely 100% thees a just an enormous sacrifice is is turned in by these individuals these Brave U Patriots and people need to realize that they do take a pause in their civilian life to do this um so big thank you to all the veterans out there and their family so thank you very much for yourself yeah thank you and I would also Echo that it's a global Canada was had a day off yesterday in Canada and UK is a Amendment suay I didn't know they all aligned so it's very much it's all World War One Two was it one that was set up as a okay the 11th day 11th Hour the 11th day interesting so just just to recognize it's a global and the reason they give out poppies you know why they give out the poppy flowery Fields because the poppy fields were there in the in the battlefield interesting good thank you watch your one documentary tonight okay so um with that said uh is there a motion to adjourn yes Mr Sando a late hand like to move that we adjourn I