e e e e e e e e we on the air I call to order the Zoning Board of adjustment uh meeting uh
regular meeting for March 4th 2025 at 7:34 uh 7:36 I'm sorry um call to order and statement of compliance adequate notice of this meeting SL hearing has been provided by posting a copy of the
public meeting SL hearing dates under Municipal Bullington board by sending a copy to the echo Sentinel and by filing a copy with the municipal clerk standard board procedures any meeting SL hearing conducted by the board is a quasi judicial proceeding any questions or
comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and theorum appropriate to judicial meeting hearing must be maintained at all times meeting cut off announcement is made that as a matter of procedure it
is the intention of the zoning Board of adjustment not to continue any matter past 10:30 p.m. and any regular or special meeting of the board unless a motion is passed by the members then present to extend the meeting SL hearing to a later specified cut off time
electronic devices all in attendance are asked to please mute and turn down the ringer on your phone so that it doesn't disturb the meeting uh Pledge of Allegiance Tom would you lead it please pled allei to the flag of the
United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you okay World call new batteries I
hope they die though here Mr gakis here Mr Rosenberg here Mr Watts here Mr zadra is excused this evening Mr White here Vice chairman Goff here
chairman greet here chairman we have a core all right great terrific I'm sorry to hear that Alex is sick it would have been his first meeting as the uh as a regular member um technically not yet not yet oh not yet that's right Township hasn't met yet okay semi regular he's a
regular anyway y all right we have an application before us preliminary and final site plan with bulk and use variances block 10515 lotp Zone b-d pvo at 10 1057 Valley Road application
number 25- 01z uh it's the applicant is 1057 Valley Rd R LLC applicant proposes to renovate and occupy an existing PNC Bank building with a Wendy's restaurant is the
applicant ready yes sir okay and would you introduce yourself please thank you Richard skck I have my own Law Firm talking to the mic and I am here representing the entity you mentioned 1057 Valley Rd r l LC this entity
recently took title to the property it is that former PNC bank branch at 1057 Valley and for the record we're at block 10515 block four we're seeking the approval to convert that bank Ranch into
the Wendy's we're in the BD Zone with a pvo overlay while a restaurant is a permitted use in the zone the restaurant the drivethru is not so that's why we're here for that D1 use variance we do need the five votes this evening other than
that use variance the relief is what I'm going to call fairly minor and group together all related to the signage package it's possible we need a waiver for some of the lighting as well our engineer will
go through that it's sort of an existing condition that's out there and uh your reviewers mentioned uh the previous approval we went back and we looked at that and we'll talk about that that's you mean for the bag for for the bag
related to the lighting levels uh we have gone through all the review letters we incorporated responses to most of hold on a second Dev is that mic on it doesn't sound like it's reverberating I can hear it pretty well I know I can hear him but it doesn't sound like it's going through the mic is it a green
light on it there's not a green light now no it should be that's what I'm saying just put new batteries in it I know that but it it didn't sound like it was used the mic because you can usually tell when the mic's being was it turned off okay now we got it okay good all right thank you okay uh we're going to
start with our architect have what we think to be our attractive elevations and pictures so we start one second please let our let our attorney put in the record that you have the proper notice and sure I'm happy to do so uh Mr chairman I did read the uh
reviewed the notice found the content to be sufficient found it to be timely served uh certified mail February 18 published February 20 both at least 10 days prior to this evening in fact more uh so the board does have jurisdiction based upon the notice uh to hear the
application this evening and if the application concludes this evening to decide the application this evening uh would you swear in everyone that's going to testify everyone who's going to testify tonight please stand up as I mentioned one witness who was coaching tonight that's okay when he comes we
line hopefully he'll be here in a few when when he when we comes in we'll swear and I'll swear in our okay we're going to be formal do all of you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you all we have board professionals and all applicants Witnesses Sans onean who will be forthcoming will be sworn prior to his or her testimony okay chairman just so
you know the line up was as mentioned Amed Mar is our architect second position is the civil engineer candle okay third position is timos he's the Vice President of Operations the ry's operator from yell Restaurant Group
they're the operating entity left what probably be pretty brief testimony from Doug pic the traffic engineer anything hasn't been covered and of course we have a planner John McDon What I've Done
chairman is John the planner is going to go through the sign of pack so instead of doing it twice we're going to leave the signage and uh and uh Mr McDon will go through that he's got to testify about the variances he'll go through the
number the size and Li the signs at the end and the lighting the lighting is going to be the other guy okay uh but uh since we needed the variances I thought I could streamline a little bit to see how that works out uh but uh we believe that the signage is relatively typical
for a drive-thru uh situation but uh we'll we'll go through that so with that chairman we're we're ready to go with uh Amad Mara uh just let you know after he's done I'm going to have our experts ask some questions whatever they want to ask then the board will ask questions and then we go from there and then
public all right you're hearing Mr Mark can you provide your professional qualifications to the board sure I graduated school the M yeah hand him the mic we're sorry we have less mics than
next and if you could just give us a a spelling of your name and a business address is fine got is it hold on hold on a megaphone yeah I don't know it's smart it's coming back
on but I don't know try talking you never know what you're freaking annoying extra cup coffe that's not good is is it put in is the batteries put in correctly and I'm just asking
yeah okay if you put them in backwards they don't work I put them in correctly okay I I I no doubt just just asking not suggesting yeah right we got our civil engineer okay sir
could you come up get SW in all right let me I'm okay well we're going to swear him in in the meantime sorry about the microphone situation I can be loud no no it's not the point it's got to be on the record so you know
we can hear you but if it's not on the tape record we're screwed sir uh could we we want to swear you in sir all right good evening go ahead please raise your right hand do you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing
but the truth I do good thank you very much now when St turn your morning in already we get to the important business son's team win tonight no but I'm want we win tonight okay where was he one second sorry about
that problem missing exhibits I thought I saw that somewh okay think we need this mineral I don't know what we need this is this is wiy Dink
MH there you go I heard something come on it's on now okay all right there all day yeah sure okay terrific okay 2012
mgit yes uh 2012 I'm a licensed architect in the states of New Jersey New York and Maryland my name is Ahmed ahme last name em business is imara gobrial Architects we're located in 10 1050 Wall Street West in Linhurst New
Jersey and have you testified of planning and zoning boards many times yes have you testified before any planning or Zoning Board in this Township not in this Township no I I deem you an expert thank you get that okay uh the board is
all familiar certainly with the PNC branch can you do an overview of the exterior changes and then a very brief overview of the Interior thank you Ri so as you're all familiar it's a on story brick building
um used to be the PNC uh and this these views that we have today I'll go through them quickly and then I'll show the what the changes are and explain the floor plan we'll just mark them exhibit A1 sequentially there's yes there's three exhibits if any of the public want to
see them they can come up here yes correct sorry I didn't no problem these are not in the our package no these were prepared under your direction correct yes and they
adequately portray what is going to be there and yes to the best abilities that's exactly what what it is and this this view is moving East on Valley Road A1 A1 correct is moving East on Valley Road you can see the entrance yes can
anybody see it okay yes no problem I can move out of the way too no problem so this this is the uh North elevation W which is which is basically on again facing Valley Road the the drive-through Lane is what you're seeing here which is still being used for this
uh project um the the Wendy's is also a drive-thru and you have the bypass lane in this here you'll see the signage uh that's proposed is in location of what uh is existing today or was existing for the PNC so facing the street there is a
signage here and then we have the drive-thru the changes to the facade is very minimal we don't have any really changes to the brick the brick stays the same um some of the windows have been enlarged to create doors and um and
others have been just uh replaced with newer windows but other than that there are no significant changes to the exterior so I'm going to put this down here and I'll move to the next one uh this is the view now from facing um or
looking at uh the building from the corner of planfield and Valley road again this is the the drive-thru Lane this will be the drive-through menu exhibit A2 for the record go ahead yes sir A2 and uh you'll see again the word
Wendy's facing um uh Valley Road while the Cameo the logo for Wendy's is facing um uh playing field and this is our third exhibit A3 this is the view from the current parking lot and the entrance to the
drive-thru Lane once again the the exterior remains unchanged with um the opening for the rear here from the from the back is just widened to create more uh opening uh glass and light and air into the space with the uh logo once
again above the entrance with that these These are the the views they're not again there's there's no substantial change um minimal changes to the exterior um I'm going to go through
the elevations just to quickly explain this is what's in the front of the board this is in the package in front of the board so if I made the colorized plans were submitted colorized yes okay and just last as uh your counselor said last
Revis date and sheet number for each one sure when you get it the last revised date is um uh uh December 16th 2024 and this is sheet 821 82.1 and it's showing the SE ation that
were reflected in the renderings this is a window here that was uh used to be the same exact window for the bank it's enlarged with a door next to it uh the South elevation again
the entry here has been slightly enlarged with uh more glass this is the main entrance and sheet number now a2. two same last rision same last revision date the same elevation for the East
Remains the Same the west elevation uh this that we had a PNC uh drive-thru window that's been replaced to the to a a typical window sliding um uh drive-through window so the changes
again minimal no changes to the exterior really except for the enlargement of um The W North elevation for the entrance which is the main entrance to the restaurant the floor plan is pretty self um you know explanatory because of the
we have only two entrances this is the same sheet same revision and this is EQ 1.1 from the parking lot the entrance is this is the and I'm talking about the left side here of the sheet from the
parking lot the entrance uh that's that you see is the entrance to this is the employee entrance this is the back of house entrance which takes you into the kitchen and the and the office area the mechanical area and the storage area the the uh the entrance facing uh Valley
Road that's the customer entrance which uh I'm sorry the it's the opposite the the entrance for the parking is the um customer entrance which takes you into the dining area um we have the seats on the on one side the the uh service on
the other side and the drive-thru window is again in the same location that it was to be for the bank right here from the the front area is the entrance for the employees and that takes you to the back of house the employees have access to
the front area but not the opposite um we do have accessible bathrooms and um uh the the seating on one side I don't think there's um anything else in the plans that change it's pretty straightforward so if you if you have any questions from me I'm happy to take
them um before we do do our engineer planner have any questions for the you start oh okay um I do thank you okay so uh a couple of questions one um I just noticed in your renderings uh and I know that you said
your planner will be talking about the signage but it looks like there's one sign in that drive-thru and there's two in this image I'm Sorry by this image you mean sorry to the I don't know which one A2 and A3 let me put them up so we
can so on A3 I'm sorry what's the question so you have drive-thru signage uh you know underneath oh you're talking about these two right and and this one it looks like it's just one this the other one is right here okay can can if
I can ask for everyone to identify the exhibit they're referring to I'm pointing to wait I'm not done yet thank you and also if you can speak directionally so if we were looking at a blind transcript we would know what you're talking about so I'm pointing to
exhibit A2 I'm looking at the uh East Elevation the East Elevation is showing two menu boards but one of them is in Shadow here that's why it's not as clear but if you look at it on exhibit
a three again again on the Eastern side of the the building which is facing plane field the two menus now are clear cuz it's outside of the shade yeah okay and do you know if if in your application the square footage included
both of those menu boards for the for signage yes no just one right yes okay all right so um my next question has to do with um what looks like in the front of the building you have um what is it
delivery pickup area yes so can you explain how that is expected to work and how it would um relate to the uh you know the general customer entrance that might just be coming in hold off because the operations person is going to answer
that okay question okay that's fine okay all right um okay those are my only questions right now uh I think I'm good for now good for now yeah with this all right board members questions of the
get going um the uh it appears that you know you mentioned there's very little change to the facade in the outside where the Wendy's I guess it's on the North facing right there in yes in the one you're
looking at as well as where the image of Wendy is on the east side that that's like a a faux wood is that what is that existing that's that's what it is it's a composite material that looks like wood correct okay and that's existing right now on both no no that's this and that
are updates to the exterior correct well the Wendy's sign is where a PNC sign used to be yeah but they right now behind that is not and right now right now I think behind it is vinyl white vinyl which would be replaced with the composite wood okay and and so I I I guess we'll talk about this later but
just to clarify because I know you said kind of two different things just to verify I guess the entrance on the south side is the customer entrance and the entrance on the North side that is the employee entrance that's again maybe this isn't for you maybe this is for later but so it appears that the
employee entrance the employees will park in the back but have to enter they will not be able to enter through that place or is it the intend they they can enter enter from the front from which which would be the the South but they could walk around as well to go to the north side enter from there and is there
side oops sorry is there a sidewalk that wraps around the entire building I don't think there is but there isn't at the moment now okay and is that a plan to be with this or no no not this is we were the coverage that's presented is the coverage that's planned to stay so for
them to access that door they would have to walk in the active driveway or walk on the grass on the side of the building I mean okay so there is space for them to walk like essentially behind the sign or I guess which side would they be walking on I would assume it's on that
side I mean we have the site plan I don't know if you but he'll be sworn in but uh on the site plan we can see see that clearly yeah we can deal with that later okay that's it that's my questions anyone else yeah yes goe wanted to clarify on the signs on the signs you you have the ones
on the building and I guess we indicated there's two different uh signs for the menu board yeah menu board and there's also the sign in front if you pick would you pick up a that's what I'd like to see again yeah is that A1 and this is A1 we're going to go back and and check out
if we included that in the square footage but what what is that sign made of and how do it look that one that looks are the signs on the building all the signs on the building are internally lit internally lit yes what do you mean by internally lit they have lights
within like they're they're they're have lights within them plastic lights they yes they're plastic and and they light from within them see normally we have externally lit but that's part of their variance request yeah I know I know well is the variance to clarify is the
variance request for the size and amount of signs or is it for the style of the that sign that's orange is that internally lit too the the right this one yeah correct yes it is okay that's
what you want as the that's what we would like to yes okay cuz that is that is the sign that you see driving on uh Valley Road yeah uh any other question U what about the rest of the lighting of the building would that be you or would that be some somebody else in your team that would be
someone else yes on the team great I just want to know whether or not that's you somebody else yeah so while they're asking about signs why don't you just give us um like an explanation of all of the variances you're asking for on the signs including the dimensions the quantity and and the type of sign itself
so our ordinance wants a wood grain type sign with down lighting Etc and you want back it and larger can you just explain the the current so we're going to try to do that just once with the planner okay it's up to you but what I was trying to express is instead of doing with the
architect that's fine will the planner know the dimensions and the grains of the wood and all that you better better how however you want to present it's you know with six of one half dozen of the other said let's just do it all together with him to instead of doing it with him
and then coming back with the planet whatever answers you need will get you sure eventually so architecturally what are the significant changes you think have been made to the building there there are two significant changes in relation to the building but
there's still minor in in general because the building has you know largely stayed the same the the wood grain material that's on the east and south and the north east and south facade and the window that is right here
this is the entrance employee entrance that's the facing the Valley Road on on exhibit A1 I'm pointing at this is now all glass versus Some solid and some glass that's that's really the changes that's sort of the back fixing value but
the employees could walk through right it's the it's the back in terms exactly in terms of how you access the building but it's the front facing to the street employ could come through the customer area they can what was where what is there now where that
door is is that just a window presently it it's a door and a window right now but with with um Mt right as it's like a security door um it's it's it doesn't look like a security door no it looks like a I mean again I guess it's the
same exact dilemma that they had which is they're facing the the street this is their main facade but it's not their main entrance because everybody's coming from the back that was the bank's employee entrance any yes that was the employees entrance okay I have here um EX revision date a
0.1 these are the existing elevations so the existing South elevation which is the entrance for the customers for the bank which became the entrance for the uh uh patrons of Wendy's it's the same uh area basically
but instead of having glass all around and a single door we now have a double door sitting in the middle um same thing on the uh North elevation again the double door with the glass on top this is now just all glass It's a larger opening so that's why I'm saying it's
it's pretty insignificant in terms of the size of the building and what's happening around the building uh it's just that basically where PNC is and it's a white vinyl now it's the wood and then the entrances is that door going to have a handicap button it will open by itself all the doors all the doors have
to be handicapped accessible whether we have specifically a button or not I can we can we can look into that cuz most sometimes they have that little button you push yeah they do and they push open automatically yeah and the other difference architecturally is that the signs are now proposed to be internally
lit versus externally lit which is what's existing and I don't know if there you but is the lighting on the rest of the building changing the I don't do you want me to speak to that okay so the lighting no if it's the planner I understand it could go be the planner that's no do you have
that information yeah so the lighting on the rest of the building isn't changing it's do we they have exterior lights so we're replacing them with with exterior lights so there that's staying and then the site lighting is what's being upgraded so that they can speak to
okay any other questions for the architect I okay memb oh I'm sorry go ahead how how old is this building do you know I can I can look at my notes site plan approval it's in your package 2003 so Circa it's not that old a year
or two to go and in terms of the actual work to be done here is this just going to be a g gut Ren like a gut renovation of the inside yes it's a gut renovation of the inside because because the the layout is different the purpose is different the mechanical space is going to be different the bathrooms all that stuff what are you doing with the
safe that's usually pretty heavy to remove on other projects we usually just leave it in place but I don't know if they're going to move it or what this time usually they're built right about the building built over I I'm working on a project in in Bion and similar thing and we they're actually leaving the
vault in place it's too heavy to remove expensive eggs are going to be there you go expensive eggs yes breakfast yes sir uh and I can wait for the the Planner on this that's fine you showed the Wendy's sign that would be on Valley Road yes uh
what signage will be on uh the other side Playfield Road Avenue is it just what's on the building I you want to be accurate with this so so PL plane field is is the Wendy sign as you mentioned
the Valley Road Ro Valley I'm sorry uh plan field is is the came is the logo of Wendy and then the South elevation which is the main entrance for the is also the logo so there's only one ground sign and that's on valy road there's only one
ground sign which is on valy road exactly which which which is in place of the existing PNC sign there there'll be no signs by the entrance ESS uh for drivers to notify that's their entrance to go in because there's only one entrance you don't want people going
past plane field get on the valley spin around back I'm sorry any any enter or exit signs at the driveway yes entrance and erress are there is there going to be a sign saying entrance and exit on on the entrance sign on on the on the we can we can add a a sign on the door that
says entrance but but where the driver comes in oh the driveway yes yes yes yes yes yeah because it's a oneway in again now I follow okay that's why I was confused we're talking about the driveway yeah there will be one a sign saying entrance and exit cuz there's
only one way correct okay thank you those are directional signs right directional signs right yes so you know people know that they enter to the right or whatever go to the rightly yeah and and as you go up and they they'll cover this this also turns and as existing today there's a bypass lane in the bank
this bypass lane stays and it's going to be labeled as well so you're not changing any black top you're not changing any Belgium Block or anything like that I I don't want to speak out of but you can cover Adam the civil engineer will cover that yes any other questions for the
architect any member of the public have questions of the architect questions now uh would you hand them your microphone please unfortunately we don't have another one please state name and address please Charles Arena witz Millington I guess the question is to
the architect but um is there any way we can get everybody on equal ground equal ground being getting caught up with these pictures for the people on TV for people in the audience is there any
way we can get the camera on these exhibits because I didn't get a copy of this applicant until about 2:00 this afternoon it wasn't posted it wasn't posted for this 10day notice it wasn't on the website like I said I got this
about four or five hours ago so we can so can we get on equal ground with the people the viewing audience and the people in the public by getting the camera on these exhibits we spent all this money on this great Audio Great Chuck we didn't see these either until
tonight these are new exhibits uh so we were not privy to the I can't even I mean I came up let's let's let's not make it any bigger than it needs to be please why don't we if you want to see them let's turn them and let's make sure what about the people that are on TV that's we're
going to do that well no we don't need to Grand let's just showly I agree with you 110% thank you so much for clarifying that thank you sir that is beautiful all right um okay do I want to be on equal ground chuck do you have a question for the AR no I just want to
get onal ground maybe I might have questions that's fair he's not going anywhere I'm not going anywhere either okay so oh he can come back and if he has questions be happy to bring him back I
don't think we're being we're not on TV anyway right I think he's talking he's talking about that TV I no but I'm not sure if the Comcast system was fixed yet or not oh you don't know I don't unfortunately I don't live in town no could somebody call their wife and see if
they're I'm turn the TV on being televised the last meeting the last meeting it didn't get televised because there was an issue with the television so I I'm not saying there's even I haven't received any emails yet of people saying that we're not on television so that could mean no one's
watching no I know of one person who is okay next chairman yeah um yeah and just make sure everybody if they need okay all I'm saying is the board has to see those pictures so if you want to just angle it so that it's more back further
and any member of the public is welcome to come up here and and see them but we have to see them just put it right in front of the chairman make a suggestion that he goes through the deck and shows the public the deck yeah and then put them back however we need that's fine
just let people come up if they want to I think we're moving to the next witness now anyway so maybe those exhibits are you're going to check about the second menu board yes I will to see if we yes have it right or made an error in the
calculation of the square footage your simulation I hope it's on your plan is I'll check right now check to make sure so that we can have that you'll work that out we need that to be brought up a little closer to
us per the app will send me the color exhibits and then I can put them on the tomorrow okay we are not on Comcast okay we're not on Comcast so is it on Verizon maybe we can move
on yeah next witness customer pickups employee access oh actually wait a minute hearing no more questions from the public I'm going to close the question public so we'll call our next witness our civil engineer
Adam good evening even Mr chairman is this okay where it is can anybody see that from the board guys can the board members see that I just want to make sure be my guest there you go look at that is that
okay for the board oh my God no uh move it a little bit more that that way and that way all right good can everybody see that can everybody see it is that okay it was previously sworn yeah right sworn just want to make sure oh just go
through your credentials so we can yeah how are you Adam candel from dayel engineering um licensed civil engineer been in the industry for the last 20 uh years or so uh I've uh testified across the state including this County have not testified in front of this board but
several boards such as this one within the same county and across the state license remains a good standing in the state of New Jersey yes it does thank you I deem you an expert thank you okay Adam we work on an hour you go through
that and do the summary that you're the board familiar with the site certainly yeah so um as you can see here on the site our site is located at the corner of Valley and planfield Road uh with um with the valley being to the north of
the site Walgreens Beyond to the north with uh with a Plainfield being to the west to the east of the site with luk oil gas station further Beyond to the east of the site uh sor interrup Mr Warner is the exhibit
last somebody was reading later they could follow to do certainly so this is uh was submitted my cover sheet c01 exhibit what's the next exhibit we're not we're not marking last Revis uh 1212
2024 okay thank you and all the sheets that I'll be presenting uh will be with the same revision date thank you um just refer you're referring to a different sheet just FSE the number certainly we'll do um so just uh
continuing with where the site is located uh to the rear of the site which is the South it's also a commercial Zone and Commercial uses to the west of the site is a child care facility uh the site is entirely within the BD Zone uh
also within the pvo overlay Zone um I'll try to move it long um for the most part the whatever we're proposing we're maintaining the site essentially as is with the exception of some modifications which I will go into um with regards to
the bulk requirements and Zoning we have the uh the um the impervious coverage is increased less than 1% so the existing impervious is 60.5 6 with the proposed impervious being
61.3 4 which is subject to change slightly which I'll get into later which was one of the engineers comments regarding sidewalk but uh I'll get into that later uh with regards to the other bulk requirements we do have an existing uh an existing non-conformance of uh a
maximum not a minimum a maximum front yard setback of 51.2 where 50 is uh required and also we have also a residential uh uh setback a residential buffer the minimum is five
the edge of the the parking lot on the uh South End is 2.9 ft it's existing to remain we're not further exuberating that uh that variance um but maintaining that existing um uh this is the cover I'm going to move on to the site plan
which is exhibit CO3 uh I mean uh sheet CO3 correction yeah so as we go through it I mean we just um we had the first one we had slight curve modification right here just to expand the throw of the
drive-thru just to allow vehicles to easier to more easy easier uh more to come around to the drive um have any sign there yeah is there an exent entrance sign there um we
we just have a stop sign there but I think the architect was suggesting that there may be a sign there but um there uh we we're not proposing a sign there uh currently could do it if it makes some sense yeah I think I think let people and you have arrows
like you have an arrow directional arrows all throughout but it would be good to have an exit entrance sign too certainly certainly so we'll have the dire and then we will add an enter and an exit sign there as well um additionally there was a traction enclosure that was there but for the use
that we need it needs to be just a little bigger so the PNC did have one but we're we're expanding it the trash enclosure we have here is 12T Deep by 20t wide and what was it um before I think it was have to look it was about 10 by 10 okay so we're expanding it
wider not deeper okay um Additionally the Ada pavement markings uh we're now um meeting you know the the code with an 8T aisle for the Ada parking uh another thing that we will agree to do which was
on the engineers report um was to extend so right now there's a a handicap uh curb ramp over here where it says depressed curb which is uh if you're looking at the parking spaces to the right uh there's a the Press curb there now we would be centering that and we
would continue sidewalk to the end of the uh to the end of the handicap parking area over there so that was a recommendation from the engineering and I think we'll do it so that'll be slightly additional impervious I think I calculated it to be about 100 50 squ ft
more uh plus or minus if it was um 6 ft at uh 24 uh 6 ft 24 wide but less than 150 sare ft which would keep us still under uh the storm water and under the um and under the uh the uh limit of
disturbance uh additionally as the architect before you would that also keep you under the maximum permitted impious coverage of 70% uh yes yes it would that's still conform that that is still conforming thank you thank you um
so you actually by doing that you're making the handicap more more accessible you're making it easier that that's correct I mean it's a I guess it's an untraditional way where it is that it'd be hard to get into if a car was parked in that handicap spot I guess it's working it was probably a retrofit but
we would uh make it more more of a conventional uh curb Ram okay over there uh drive-thru and the order signs I'm not going to go into as much I think signage was already discussed and I'll leave that also for the planner as well as the ground mounted sign so we're
proposing a uh a ground mounted sign in the front here again I'll leave that for the planner but just want to show as the changes that we're making in total and then also the architectural and building facade which the architect has spoke to um there is currently a a site easement
on the site uh right now so a sight triangle easement we are respecting it and we're maintaining it we're not doing anything within that so just want to acknowledge that that was something that was passed with the uh PNC Bank in 2003 um with that application count requ that
yes and so that's being maintained no impact on that no impact on that at all um and then also the existing curb cut so both roads are County Roads planfield as well as Valley uh we're maintaining that curb cut we made some modifications
offsite but we connect back to that curb cut so we don't make any changes to the curb cut we've submitted plans to the county they've come back pretty favorable uh and just a couple details that we'll have to update uh for resubmitting um and then also with regards to the bypass lane we are
maintaining the bypass lane that is something as part of our circulation that we're maintaining the bypass lane there that also came up in a review letter uh speaking with operations they would prefer to keep that there uh just for the customer intuition uh sometimes
you have customers who are waiting online and they um either the line is too long they're waiting too long and they want to get out sporadically that does happen or they change their mind they want to go eat inside so it is uh something that even this applicant would have preferred to even maintain it even
further but being that it's there we didn't increase the impervious but it is something that operations would like to maintain was looking for a little more Landscaping The Operators come back and said it's really a customer experience to make the site function they just want to leave as is that's correct take
that is correct I just want to interrupt for the board's sake what I was in my mind by the time you'd have to be waiting in the line for a long time to in order to get to that byass lane so I was suggesting and and the bypass lane was from the PCC bank because that bank
had two windows right but now we're only having one right so I I suggested that perhaps that bypass land could be landscaped to have more buffer but it's up to the board landscaped on the side of this on the outside of it yes I mean
or get rid of the bypass lane which they're saying that they don't want but um I would rather not get rid of a bypass lane because if for emergency for some reason yeah you want you want that bypass lane one for emergency vehicles and two just in case somebody wants to
get out all right the just to understand the bypass occurs after the menu board right decision and after a couple more cars of Q length into until you get around the building so the bypass lane isn't accessible right the way then
right so if you've if you've entered into the drive-thru you will sit through the queue until the point of payment to bypass in that case it really isn't a bypass and then you you have to ask the question too if this was a a fresh clean slate to begin with would you design
this application with a bypass lane I you have a bypass lane in any other restaurant most restaurants do have a bypass they do yeah okay that's so that's a thing you need that yeah that's correct put it after the menu board and after you paid uh we would actually prefer to continue it more around the
building if we could but we also because of the um the site triangle we didn't want to venture into that but we would prefer to even expand throughout what happens here if a car is stuck or stall here a a vehicle at least could come and bypass it over here and then all these
cars can continue to bypass through that lane so if a car was actually stopped or stalled there the remaining vehicles can still get around it go in especially because there's no room for a turnaround or even a k turn here they would have to continue in the direction of travel so
it it it assists from that aspect of it just just a clarification so are there I know there's one primary window that would be where you delivered the goods is there a second window if in case somebody is stuck at one window so yeah what so two there two questions and I'm
going to lump them together so um if a if a if somebody's waiting on the order and sometime you see somebody's at the order and they say Sir or m'am sir give us a few minutes we're going to prepare the order they will walk out through this this uh the South door over here and they would have a car would be still
parked here would be able to be parked here at the edge where the next vehicle behind it could still be at the uh at the um the window and it can pull up slightly now in the event that um in the event that they took longer they would wrap around and then Park but the other
option the other thing that we will get into and also was on I think the planner's report was regarding the mobile and the pickup orders so that's also another thing that is happening much more and although it was omitted on this plan typically on the new build
outs they Reserve three they Reserve three spots for those mobile pickup orders which you're seeing more often GrubHub door Dash and so on uh so the window would be right here in the south portion uh Southwest portion of the building there so they come out to
service this car who's still waiting in the Drive-Thru and at the same time for the vehicles which we would designate these next three spots beyond the handicap to be the mobile order they would come right in through the store and be able to pick up a mobile order um directly we'll have a little more on
that with the operations person on how it comes in large orders a legitimate concern you're going to hear testimony most of those get uh sent in electronically the larger ers uh
so so before before you continue certain to the benefit for your parking Cals the 21 that are provided is over the 16 required so if we add the three that you're speaking of dedicating on top of
the 16 we're at 19 we still have a plus two for the board to understand okay appreciate so it's still within their yes so just clarification when do we talk about parking if they dedicate a spot for mobile pickup that
does not count towards parking no it what I'm saying is you're still meeting the required parking for in in-house dining right right that's generated by the use so the 16 are required for functioning of the in-house but in general if a restaurant or any wanted to
designate spots as you would look for those to be Surplus to our requirement okay and they are satisfying that Goa can good questions we're talking we have enough anyway since we're talking about the space in the parking lot I was looking at the previous ordinance that
was approved by the planning board in 2003 and on page four it uh the resolution the resolution I yeah um e uh it says pursuant to section 51.3 I don't know what that is but of the ordinance and off Street loading
space is required for the usage and none is provided back in 2003 so does that mean that's okay for these guys too I mean no was provided for the bank because maybe they didn't need it and it was
okay that could be a question where where deliver is going to be made yeah of course that's a great question how yeah how is that going to be done yeah uh uh so yeah I can jump into that now or should I have a question for our J can I ask you when uh parking is
calculated uh it's based on SE the rest correct uh orare yeah or square feet depending on different methodology for different uses should we use my question is uh is there parking for the workers in the
restaurant uh a restaurant use is one space per 60 square ft of floor area and that being the square the area devoted to seating generates 16 spaces or alternatively one space per 2 and 1/2
seats and that also generates 16 spaces what about employes you you'll probably hear from the traffic engineer that that's Incorporated and subsumed within the entire parking requirement they have a traffic report traff oh thank you we we have the
applicant has a witness for that it's it's a traffic engineer just a preview a proper if you will operations person can testify most of kids who work at a fast food restaurant are not driving we believe
that takes all that we're going to go through maximum shift and all that yes that I did see yes I just wanted to know okay good all right continue um yeah so continuing along uh and I'm also
trying to also comments that we got within the review letters if I can get in my testimony as well um so those questions regarding uh the uh uh pedestrian circulation so um as of now there is sidewalk along the frontage so offsite uh maintained by the county um
going there when I did my site visit appears that you know the curb ramps are an ADA uh are ADA Compliant on the off-site ones I'm not appears that way for the off-site ones um I did look at where we are on on-site um I think I
think by putting the curb ramp here as we discuss and continuing That Sidewalk out to here um I think that would help for circulation and there was also the question about getting from the back of the site to the front so what we were suggesting was putting a crosswalk
across the island from prior to the Stop Bar and then continuing that going just to get to PE uh to get patrons to the opposite side of the travel way so that they're not standing within the TR away when vehicles are are are approaching
right now I mean the first response was that it's currently being utilized and the and the uh and the pedestrians are currently um coming from here there but we want to further enhance it by putting in these crosswalks um so that was something that we would um we would put
in if that's something that the board engineer would con uh concur with would you go over exactly where you're putting those yeah so from from the back side bring a crosswalk
here correct so you have cars coming in and coming here but you have a crosswalk so that the vehicle can come so that the uh pedestrians can come from these back parking across here and then also coming across over to the sidewalk to the side uh well there there's not sidewalk there
but just walking in the travel way okay so that would indicate to to drivers that there's a potential for pedestrians to be correct to to to provide a stop gap for um for pedestrians to be able to cross that area to be so it would
essentially be pavement markings for protection of pedestrians in the in the drive AIS in the driveway so as opposed to not necessarily a crosswalk with a with a ramp right and connectivity a sidewalk just all it is is notice to drivers that there's a potential people
there correct correct yeah and we could we could figure out how to work work out the appropriate Market pavement marking for that and and if you need other signage too yeah pan like for example perhaps some form of pedestrian yield to pedestrian at the exit of the drive-thru
before you enter into the drive a area right yeah yeah I don't want to steal any Thunder we are we have a traffic engineer here [Laughter] soome um so you were on the the sidewalk that you were looking to add so that
just to clarify would be a ramp into the hatched area between the two spaces and then following behind the sign the the Ada signage a continuation of sidewalk to get to the existing sidewalk correct 6 fet to maintain at least 36 in clear
and then um when you prepare that revision I think it would help to have an inset detail into your detail sheet just to so show dimensional control for the existing pillars in the front and making sure you
have 4T clear for Ada accessibility certainly certainly we'll do um and then um so these were the modifications here on the site plan um if there if there's no questions on this I would move actually to uh truck
turning uh truck turning and vehicle circulation and for the benefit of the audience I'm just going to turn this this way um so there was uh questions regarding to vehicle circulation this is she
e01 which was submitted in our uh our site plan [Music] package and this shows the uh delivery truck circulation uh this shows also the uh Refuge uh truck ambulance and fire um
fire we did not have the ability to circulate a fire truck on the site it is our understanding that's currently being serviced uh from paic Valley Road from the street itself um and it doesn't come on and circulate as under existing conditions nor did we think we would be
able to and you know the the uh the applicant does know that this is a tight site but it's an existing especially with regards to the fire truck turning um so um that's the only thing that would be servicing from offsite and would not have the ability to circulate
on the site um but these were the exhibits that were submitted uh the applicant does know that you know based off the constraints of the site they're going to have much more frequent deliveries in a in a smaller vehicle which is a box truck um based on the
constraints of this site uh so that was submitted if there's any questions on that I don't mind answering them I do okay uh can you give an estimate of what time a day those trucks would be coming in and and how many
times a week um and how often each day yeah operations will speak more to that uh but my understanding in talking and I'll look back in case they correct me uh but it will be um definitely after hours so it' be within the time of two
uh midnight to 6:00 a.m. and also three times a week okay so and it would not be when anybody's there in the restaurant inside the restaurant um are dining during that
time and we got to coordinate correct okay so that large delivery truck is not going to be blocking the drive-thru while there station is customers there no they no and and typically when we do our truck
Turing we don't allow it to go on the parking but in this event there won't be any cars parked there at that instance so it can utilize the parking because it will be after when the restaurant's uh um when the restaurant's closed and can you speak to uh trash
removal yeah uh trash removal um yeah we show on the exhibit here so they would come here to the trash enclosure here they would to back into this middle aisle and then they would they could make that turn to come out and that the same uh but the trash occasionally does
occur during um it does occur during daytime uh but certainly not during the peak time hour so that's usually coordin a with the customers but it's not during peak time and that's a front loader where it comes in a front loader that's correct we'll have some testimony on how
that takes that's typically you sort of have to work with your p on that your trash company and you know they're not going to come at lunch time dinner time but maybe they probably don't want to do that either right they don't want to do that so it's not something you can sort
of pre-program because they have their Roots but things work out because both sides that's a doing a lot of hearings sort of the normal course and do that happen how many times a week is trash removal uh twice a
week so so twice a week staying on the trash removal certainly for that circulation pattern um the enclosure is opened and the fork the forks go in there's no need to push it out or
anything so so the circulation pattern works with directly front access and then backing in backing out and then K turning around that's correct okay no no physical movement of the container to except up and into the truck and back down
but no employee has to it or anything okay all right and then um the deliveries so the deliveries are through the drive a to the rear right to to the employee entrance and then the the height of that delivery
truck the height of that delivery truck is uh uh 13t 5 in uh 13 and A2 ft okay so the there is then an architectural conflict with the awning and not going oh they don't go they're
going to back out they don't go that far around if you notice the truck comes in backs into the drivethru and then pulls out correct the whe all right all right so they're K turning as well backing down the drive-thru that's correct unloading in the open area and then okay
yep understood you need to walk through this yeah I'm I'm not sorry for forgive me please walk walk us through how this truck is going to make the delivery this truck plan please walk us through I'm not getting okay so the the truck uh
the truck comes in how about go the front use your finger and say the front of the truck is here and walk us through the front of the truck is is here uh going northbound on plane field thank you and it makes a left turn into the um the establishment
continues straight it Parks temporarily in this area where my finger is here which is in the south West corner of the parking lot and then it backs into the drive-thru area and then does a k turn and then backs out
and it does the unloading when it's in the drivethru area that's where it does the unloading actually over here where my finger is by The Refuge area how does that make any sense the building's all the way over there so the so the yeah that that that unloading operation will happen by by hand C that would happen by
hand card all the way down the full length of the drive-thru that's correct to the rear of the building well that's what is the front of the building on Valley but to the architectural rear of the building that's correct and that was in conversation with the with operations and they understand that a a you know
it's a long uh it's a long when that truck comes it's off hours that truck's never going to be there when the store is in operation that's correct that's fine that's that's your problem so so long as the pat aren't going to be and that's that's something that that you can you you'll put that in right right
that that truck will not make cuz that's that's really tight guys oh I know that's really tight I mean it'll work if there's nobody there if anybody's there forget it not going to work it's just the truck driver is going to have to be doing a lot of walking so what are the consequences if it happens during regular operating hours course the whole
restaurant to come to screeching hle that that's true and people can't leave what what what consequences are there for them well that would affect the whole customer experience I mean that's not something that the operator would want to do I mean they want to certainly coordinate around that obvious safety
concerns that that causes for me you know you can't get police fire that that brings this whole thing to a St and uh the deliveries would have you're saying they would happen off hours but they happen in all kinds of weather you can't count on the weather being no cold or
raining or sleeing or hurricanes how it is how it is today all type but they don't have you know I don't know 50 75 ft to walk to the deliver the stuff right you're talking about the fact that the guy from the truck to the front of that
to the door driver may a little cold yeah okay okay well I just want them to be safe as long as you're not putting patrons or cars in Jeopardy that's fine I I I would say that that is this something that we could reasonably ask for a condition if should this be
approved that it's a condition of approval that this that the loading for the restaurant for the from this truck only can occur when the restaurant is not not serving patrons right it's closed to patrons right I thought they said delivery between midnight and 6:00
a.m. yeah which is the only time I feel it restant is closed yeah whatever this this isn't onon a safety issue we're not disagreeing we're the applicant is fine with that I have a question yes certainly uh was any
concern given to I again I visit the site I live in the area of course uh I noticed like Burger King Taco Bell a lot of landscapers trailers tree guys have trailers now hypothetically um a landscaper coming north on planfield
Avenue uh turns left into the parking lot he has a trailer and a pickup truck what does he do at this point he's having a bad day he's having a bad day right uh what and a lot a lot of your business will
be that's a problem a pickup Tru if you notice Burger King they're able to pull in Taco Bell they're able to pull in they're actually able to park there's enough parking and they're actually able to pull out without having to turn around is there any way you can reconfigure this parking lot to help these guys out because most of your business during the day with the trees
guys and landscapers in the area Harding and all these towns there really isn't a place to eat this will be the only place to come for fast food and a lot of your business will be pickup trucks with with trailers yeah um they would have to they would have to probably do
similar to what the Refuge truck is doing they would have to make that type of a k turn and if they have you know I'm not I don't know how they would do it but I'm just we have not modeled it but they would probably have to do similar to that and make a backup into
this aisle and maybe only Park in so if they came in to park in here if they had two or three spots available they would probably have to temporarily use those two or three spots unfortunately a lot of these guys don't have class A CDLs like a garbage truck would they used to backing up these guys are pretty much
forward pull up in front of the house cut the lawn put it back on and drive straight forward you're looking at probably accidents happening and things like that I wish you would reconsider something maybe you could take out some curving traffic expert let's see if he has any IDE and I would just ask one thing in in
doing that would the board be open would the board be open because we currently have a sight triangle easement here um would the board be open to to having um at that instance again the site triangle were meeting the
intent there's nothing permanent staying there but if that was used as a continuation of a bypass lane or expanding the by have a box truck or something there blocking the back wheels would jump the curb and it never make it picture a 50 foot truck trying to make that turn well no not a 50 foot I'm
talking about just like a trailer you know with a a pickup truck with a trailer pickup truck's 24t roughly I I know cuz I have a fulls size pickup and I own trailers and the trailers are roughly 25 ft so with the Pendle Hook connection you're 50 yeah those are large on you're 50 ft you're never
you're never going to make that tournament in the sight triangle you're still blocking the view and that's the whole intended yeah so be before we get into our board's position on uh parking or utilizing new space in the site
triangle will defer to the county since it's their jurisdiction on both roads of their the site triangle certainly so when you have that approval with them then you can bring that to this board certainly so can I ask you a question about the county road and we're talking about trucks moving around I don't know if anyone's noticed on planfield Avenue
all the Belgium Block is popped off of there that the trucks like the normal trucks I don't know if they're the pickup trucks with the with the trailers but they all jump the Cur they all jumped the curb I mean look like chicklets all over the road you know so it's it's it's a tight Corner even just
to come into and you're not going into the drive-thru trying to get something to eat because you're hungry question what that's a county question well well since you mentioned County and Che with them to do it we've asked them to put in the slanted curb at pop by shop right where that happened and they just no try
it again so is that a question for you're it sounds like you're the ones that are talking to the county because you're trying to you know do this here we're not up to that yet we hav we just sort of left it so okay you're looking for a response from
us I'm looking for where where does it get addressed from from the township which is tried or an applicant who's also trying to get something put onto this the applicant no because they don't go as far as that road they don't they can't control that on to your start
mayor your counil all right I don't think that's for us go ahead and continue um well I was going to continue with uh parking I think the engineer also went into it um so the required is 16 uh we have 21 which is both existing and
proposed uh Ada access um um we talked about extending That Sidewalk there um additionally for the EV um that came up in the review letter wasn't required 25 uh the mobile pickup I discussed that storm water management were exempt from
both uh uh exempt from DP as well as the township ordinance um uh section 146 um utilities um we're just going to have I'm going see if I can bring the site plan back uh utilities we're just going
to have one so right now the site is currently serviced by septic um this was uh um PNC Bank was currently serviced by septic they did have um CU I guess there was there's a Bandon there still is and they had a a Sewer
Lateral um I don't have it here the sheet here uh same sheet that I had before just going to show it visually but what is it um c03 thank you um so essentially before there was a sewer connection it just stopped Midway um in the drive oil and
that was for a future connection um in talking with New Jersey American Water they would prefer to give us a connection on planfield rather than uh Valley Road just because because of the constraints and the other utilities uh so that something and they did say based off the flows that we would not be
restricted or um we would the moratorium would not be we'd be exempt from the moratorium and would have the ability to make that connection that ending to yeah yeah so that was something that came up uh and then also for the benefit of this board uh PNC when they came in 2003 they
do have an underground storm waterer management uh facility um that will remain um and the um the increase that we're doing is so di Minimus that it would not require any additional storm water uh so I just want to bring that up water service that was one of the issues
raised in thew letter get from Jersey there's currently water there now public water so the existing septic where is that on the site the ex existing septic tank if if you look on this plan that dash line in that sewer easement I mean the sight triangle
easement and then the other cleanouts and the manholes are in the front the front of the the north uh portion of the property and the north yard of the property between the building and Valley Road now if your intent is to hook up to
a source system what is going to be done with that septic that would be aband abandoned in place it would be how it abandoned um so it'd be filled so in accordance with the health department so they would seek all necessary permits from the health department and they
abandon it in place rather than I just on record so certainly appreciate that can I ask you a question about the pavement certainly are you repaving it um I at at the moment they were just
looking to restripe as needed um and I think just restripe as needed is the condition of the black top in decent condition it was in rather decent condition um there are some some portions that they might do spot repair but they're not looking to um they
weren't looking to pave it as part of this application you guys have looked at the resolution from uh 2003 right yes okay because it indicates that it was uh poest payment was to be installed so as long as you're aware of it and going to keep it that way that that would help
yeah and and also um the applicant U would have to and that was one of the comments they would have to maintain that uh the porest payment both the POR payment and the underground uh storm water Water Management Facility so they have uh a manual that they they have that they working off and they would
have to continue that maintenance okay so let's stay there for a second yeah so the approval is from 2003 it predates the storm water management rules which predates onm manuals so are you aware of an onm manual that is in
place and filed with the deed I'm not aware of it being filed with the D no but I am aware of uh my conversation with them how they would have to continue maintain how they'd have to continue maintaining it and vacuuming it and after certain storm events to maintain it okay so for the board's
understanding this predate right predates those requirements that we normally have in place for major development this is an exempt nor on site right the Minimus increase of impervious coverage there are existing bmps on the site my recommendation would simply be that stipulation and the
understanding like I put in my letter that they're going to maintain their existing system that would include the per pavement which means that any resurfacing repairs to be compant with the original okay you know cross-sections and details um and
really it's just a maintenance of existing infrastructure so our normal burden that would be on a new applicant on a major development is not in place it's not appropriate to put on them okay so the the approval that was given then
for the system that's there uh was was based on the amount of traffic the site would have and and it appears that you know with the trucks and the pickup trucks and the trailers and the delivery trucks and the garbage trucks and the hopefully you know increased traffic because that's why you're opening up a
business there uh more impact to that system is going to happen right so shouldn't it be maintained more well the the system will be maintain to function and operate that's what we would request that they stipulate to that they put in
as a condition uh my point being no more than what they're required to do from their prior approval the storm water system is part of the prior approval it's being maintained and there's no increase in Impact arguably the amount
of parking spaces the vehicles that are there the trip generation doesn't really impact it doesn't really substantially impact the bmps that are in place um perhaps a little bit more loading of
potential uh liquids that might spill uh from the vehicles but that I mean as far as rainfall rainf off it's all going to stay the same it's all operating so um maintaining the porous pavement so that
it percolates okay uh is really like a vacuuming and cleaning type of exercise on on the void space um there my point being there is no on andm manual in place so there's nothing to hold them to specifically and the site is this
application is an exempt storm water application so there's no additional burden for us to place on them that's directly related to any other relief they're they're seeking this one's exempt because the other one was exempt now this one is exempt because it's not making any further improvements and it
needs to be reviewed under our current ordinance the prior application was reviewed under the ordinance at the time and State regul ations at the time which predates the 2004 storm water management rules which is essentially our day Zero of what we
consider our our modern storm water man then you're saying that there would be different standards if it was built if it was built four years later it would have an onm manual in place that clearly defines their operations and maintenance of the those bmps and they would have
deeded responsibilities they're stipulating to similar responsibilities without the deed restriction okay sounds like some of those things were actually put in yes M like a review engineer or by proposed
regulations some of those best man some are in place in fact even grandfa pre2 exactly so you're comfortable stipulating to good engineering practices for maintenance of those facilities certainly okay that's my
point being that's really all we canate to them and re I I I got that thank you um any other comments from our experts as to this to this specific issue or any issue all right any is um I just had a
couple questions that are in my letter um and do you have page god um page 10 of my letter item um item 10 um do you have any
information on the sound volume um or anything having to do with the ordering system for the for the drive-thru or will you comply with State noise standards at the property line we will comply with State Standards okay and other words we don't want the neighbors
to know what they're ordering yeah um then on my letter page 10 item um 12 and maybe this was a question for the architect but it may be more engineering um what kind of uh mitigation
measures are there uh systems Building Systems in place to contain odors and smoke you got to come up and hear you we will have a fully functioning HVAC system in the building uh with mechanical exhaust so it'll be
everything will be collected within the space and exhausted okay so when you say that can you just provide some more testimony is that mean that if somebody is walking by they won't smell if somebody's walking by they shouldn't be smelling anything
because it would be collected within the kitchen area within the prep area filtered in the system and then exhausted out okay all right thank [Music] you all yes back to you continue I I just was going I was going back to the
traffic just for a little just not going back but I I was looking at this picture and I believe this is the current state of the property in that the bank when they had the two lanes they do have a divider in between the two lanes with the with brick and columns right I
believe that's the existing yes yeah yeah so that will be staying and that stay yeah so so going back to this idea of the customer pulling up to the window and you only have some some fast food have two windows where there's a one window where you take the money and one window where you do the service
this is only going to have one window both right that's correct so going back to the idea and I'm looking back at your exhibit I don't know the one with the maybe it wasn't maybe it wasn't one you talked about but I saw one exhibit with the cars queuing up into the into the uh
is that one exhibit E2 is2 E2 is that what it was um talking about the color yeah oh yeah with all the cars queing up with theack the stacking of the cars I do have that you want me to it up yeah well you can pull it up or whatever but
either way so the way this seems to be describing it is if you and again this is a lot of cars it's good good business you're doing here but um if the person at the window has been told to pull up and wait for their for their food service the person now pulling up behind them has no way of getting by this
because of the fact that there's an island there right nor the person behind that person probably depending on how large their car is so really I I guess going back to the idea about the the bypass lane there's really only about three cars according to this essentially I don't know how big these cars are they
might be compact but three maybe two or three cars that could possibly use the bypass lane based on this diagram is is that what we're saying um and then the and that and that yeah in that scenario yes that that's correct we're going to
hear from the operator I believe he's going to testify that know very large order they're going to tell to go into thek to open that you know they're not going to block it yeah no I understand but I'm just saying that I think he testified maybe maybe I'm confusing who testified but about the pulling up
person that there's really no way to get by that pulling up even if you have two people in line if there's only two people in your drive-thru one person who's pulled up the next person behind him pretty much has no possibility of getting by that person that one correct would not be able to get by that person
corre so so as you as your attorney stated anyone who's going to have a long wait is going to have to go put in the parking lot yes that's correct okay I just wanted to clarify because I didn't see when you mentioned that I didn't see this uh I mean how it's Park currently right now one car can that car that is
up there you can still get one car around it if theoretically the the the fifth or sixth car were to go around they can continue going around that vehicle as it's parked right now but somebody get but somebody at the window getting their food could not pull correct that is correct got that is
correct and just like sunny on the cwalk yeah are we doing questions on anything at this point Mr chairman is he done with his direct calend uh you're not done yet right give no he's not done yet liting lands yeah the what lighting lighting
lighting and that was a question that came up so I was address lighting uh so so for the lighting um we we are um mhm [Applause] yeah so on the lighting we were um we were looking at putting just the
building mounted lights what sheet is that oh sorry this is sheet c07 thank you lighting plan yeah the lighting plan and uh we were looking to just modify the lights on the building and maintain
the existing lamps um on around the site um and we were going to do a nightlight test just to make sure uh we do know and we are aware of the 2003 uh resolution which said that there was currently a waiver so we would actually look for
relief from this board to continue a waiver on lighting uh in excess of the um of the verage that is allowed as per the Ordnance because we would like to R retain those lights um and the only lights that are not shown on my plan
right now because it was between the building plans there's going to be some under canopy lights there that would allow some additional um and a higher intensity so it would be a higher intensity under the lamp um Under The Canopy which would be around 12T candle
in that immediate down light that would be witnessed Under The Canopy there would not be any spillage going beyond the part the the property line and we would be able to maintain the point4 on the entire site but we would look to get relief from this board again as was the
case in 2003 on the resolution for a waiver just for Safety and Security to have additional lighting than that of what's in the Ordnance you have that section yeah so the section of the ordinance like that section so the section the orian is
153.7 subsection B it's a shame that I have to do I I I have a a question certainly the overhang and the pillars I I I we yeah we you're free to
rip him all you want um just in case I I five votes on the I give you a free I give you free reain to bust his chobs um that that overhang and the pillars and the cement have you seen my new contract
um would your client be willing because most most drive-throughs in restaurants do not have an overhang with pillars would your would Wendy's be willing to take that out because that would eliminate a lot of the problems with
passing by and and fitting vehicles in that space because we're talking about pickup trucks and trailers they may not even fit in that space there we're going to take a break at some point yeah would you discuss that I I the more I look at it how we're going to it looks like that's more of a
hindrance than than a help give us a few minutes when we take whatever your break is okay we're going to have a minute to talk about that we take a break Tak I do know that there's mechanical units on it but it is something that the applicant still consider I understand but I'm just
saying is there some way of eliminating that whole thing or at least the bar at least the the the block blockage there because it would widen that space and it would allow for more pass through and larger vehicles to go through there I'm going to discuss it with you okay okay
so just on the lighting we want to maintain existing conditions which is a little bit over it's a little more correct we're over the maximum permitted but at core we're sort of maintaining now there's going to be more customers at night than in the bank these are
going to be on timers and cor go off and then somebody's in that parking lot like the delivery guys they'll come back onow correct I I did see a potential question here I was just going to see so for your lighting the night test you
were discussing is the intent is to night test to confirm that the site still meets the original approval in the original design waivers that's for ligh I mean that's correct and we would maintain what is out there um we're not
looking to further ex exuberate it but at the same time we do know that there was a waiver back in 2003 so even by reestablishing those lights we would be looking for that R from this for right right so we'd be right looking to maintain consistency with the prior
lighting of the site that's correct with the addition the addition of the extra lighting that we'll have Under The Canopy which is associated with the building okay and that that additional lighting you're adding is on the four sides right under those canopies the
canopy the Eastern facade facing planfield that's correct that's perhaps this is really more for the architect that's more of an architectural facade element um there's no there's no egress directly out to that side correct no no egress directly
so that lighting is really more functional for the presence of the building and the site and the wayf finding from the corner okay that's correct but it would it would comply with the current standards it would comply with the
current resolution yeah okay the current resolution okay done with lighting go ahead yes and then was a note in one of the review letters that we should cross reference section 1543a about
trash if I can just make one comment before that on the lighting um just because this also was a comment so I know uh Rick also alluded to it but about the automatic shut off so the lights would be shut off within 30 minutes of when operations is shut down that is something that would be on our
plan and the operator is looking would would comply with sorry about that right okay so that one of the comments in the letters was uh cross reference to the traction recycling standards 1543 I sent those to you you had a chance to take a look at them I did and
do we comply we would comply with that and and we would also put the mic up to your mou oh sorry we would comply with that and further we would make sure that the doors are self-latching and self-closing to make sure that also complies with that section okay one of
com yes anything else a signage I'll leave it for the planner that was also on here but I will leave that for the planner for sake of time outside agencies we've submitted to all outside agencies uh including the county and the utility companies and uh that was it if
is there any other um review comments that maybe the professionals would like to discuss or open it up yeah oh sorry okay okay so additional questions between Landscaping
um the I know there's right the discussion we had earlier about the bypass lane and if that was a viable area but aside from that um on the Frontage of planfield Road
south of the limits of the site triangle is is essentially the location of the message board and the menu board so I think there's an opportunity to provide some Landscaping in that area between between between the site between the
planfield road sidewalk on the property and uh and the curbing to you know where you you place outside the tri the site triangle south of the site triangle in that area something to help screen the view of that message board and the
illumination of that um from from cars coming through certainly I got a we would agree to work with the design sure to that would be our landcap
lands that's usual engineer okay that works awesome we'll be in touch um questions from the board planning questions is that the next person or who's next after they have
operations operations andine question do you yeah sure um you work on other Wendy's restaurants various yeah are there ever any Wendy's restaurants that don't have drive-throughs not usually a site that
Wendy's would uh even consider as part of their site acquisition so typically if it doesn't have the ability um for a drivethru it's not something they usually would look at and you think that the site is a little tight for a drive-thru um I I don't I don't think it
I don't think it's tight I think it's appropriate for the drive-thru and the intens that we're looking at especially nowadays you do have a lot of mobile orders and uh so you do have the drive-thru you have a mix of the parking and then you also have the uh mobile orders which is becoming more uh
prevalent prevalent in but sounded because you know special kind of plans for where the the delivery would be the the trucks having to do K turns it sounds to me like you think it's a little tight for a drive-thru I I don't think it is I think it's
appropriate for this type of application so what you're saying is it might be tight for delivery trucks though yes and that is something that they were aware of prior to looking at this site and they know they would have to take other U other measures
truck going to be guys that keep coming back they'll be familiar with the site so it's well suited for cars perhaps we talked about it earlier perhaps not larger trucks like landscape or other delivered trucks for the drive
but those those people could choose to park and walk in and get service that way they can choose to walk in that's correct and and you know same would be the same with also people know their vehicles right I mean that's correct well one of the reasons I brought up the
issue about getting rid of the overhang and those those those uh pillars was to more accommodate a wider vehicle such as a pickup truck or trailer and not have somebody worry about scraping their car on that M their vehicle it moves the
ball a little bit Yeah do it yeah it does I I think it and it really doesn't affect the the view of the building um but find okay sure you can move it um any other questions that the engineer from anybody
yeah just I guess there's no I think we talked about Landscaping on the east side right there's no there's no opportunity other than as we said this other lane the the border between the property the left side is just is just the retaining wall right is that all
that's there yeah yeah it's a retaining wall there and it's very narrow here the property in the back currently enjoys a rather decent buffer right now of mature trees so that is highly um screen it just be that little Slither that there's
not much room between the retaining wall and and the on the west side on the west side yeah and that's the autism school that's a yeah yeah it's not residential no
so I may what's your closest residential uh I had a question about that the 200 foot notice and maybe this is for Mr Warner the 200 foot notice is it from I thought I thought I saw somewhere a pin was like dropped in the center of the property but no no it's the perimeter
perimeter perimeter perimeter so I'm surprised that uh I looked at the list of people that were notified none of it doesn't seem it seems like they're all businesses none of the residential people and there's a residential buffer I don't know what that's I saw somewhere in the variant it was a
3ot uh residential buffer I was likeing use not use existing nonconforming in our in our uh L's report I put that in her report somewhere yeah it is there that used probably the back is the back the back I
should say the back I should say the the South Side the of the property is residential right now well it's actually Zone commercial and um existing res driving I didn't know the exact use but there was like um like trades vehicles that were parked in there um so so I I I
assume that it is commercial but I didn't know exactly what it was um I would defer to our Planner on that one uh just a sec yes I mean the um you're correct if you remember of 44 Playfield which this board reviewed
which is a little bit further south of that so that's going in yeah there is a building in between residential they're two lots and yes they are tax code wise they're they're twos which means ladies testify that she did that people were
going to be able to view her from that apartment and that was in between right so the're residential that's the answer yeah yes it's a three foot buffer on an existing nonon use of a residential property that's adjacent to the subject proper in that one corner
correct yeah that that's called out on our plans the um 2.8 2.8 feet all right um any other questions for the engineer go ahead so I hadn't picked this up in my review but I'm I'm noticing it on your C2 the existing
conditions um there's a reference to property alignment by an asilt survey um with the gray Dash lines and then there's discrepancy between that and the dark bold lines that go to the
capped iron pins found um so yeah so just curious in terms of setbacks buffers and distance the property line look is it your position
that the asilt survey is the meets and balance of the property so all improvements like the guide Rail and the retaining wall are on the property and not an encroachment into the neighbor that would be lot three to the
West yeah I see that um that is existing the existing wall you're referring to correct yeah so the existing retaining wall and your guide those are your improvements from the prior site the bank site yeah like saying that slightly goes
off so there it looks like there's a couple feet of discrepancy like on the P Valley Road it seems like there's there's discrepancy with that meets and Bounds there is one property alignment which is reference the asbill data
1021 24 which is showing that it's fully on our proper property and then there's another alignment or a line um that is showing that it's coming partially on our property and partially off of our property right so so your plans are
referencing the as Bill as the meets and Bounds of the site our our plans are referencing the survey that was done by the surveyor um dated um I should have it on my cover yeah uh it's the the survey might
be referencing that's the Maro survey yeah okay so the marmo survey from 2024 correct so we're referencing that and they're referencing in asilt maybe and that's the okay so that's the black bold lines that are on your plan and line type bounding the property that's
correct okay so if we're the submitted survey on the application and the site plans are referencing that then we are showing encroachments into the neighboring property that W no changes are proposed
no changes it's an existing wall to remain just Gores in a prior survey yeah not perfect science yeah okay no changes are proposed over there okay I just wanted yeah I just wanted to make sure I knew which one was certainly the boundary on your plan that's the marmo
survey that's correct any other questions for this Whit um well I I guess I have a question for our planner the uh the previous resolution on page s um has a comment
from uh Kevin O'Brien who was the township planner back then it looks like he says here uh the proposed use is on a critical corner of the township one with extremely high visibility is quite
important that the development here set a tone for future development of vacant lands along Valley Road would you kind of agree with that statement from the previous planner uh I would say it's a highly visible site but I would also say we're not looking at
the same circumstances that he was looking at 23 years ago which was a vacant lot right so we have well I actually had an abandoned building or an abandoned building okay or whatever was was said so I think you have to evaluate it with a slightly different lens because what they're trying to do here
is sort of adapt a building that exists currently at that location right um so but I would agree certainly it's highly visible on on the and that's a highly visible corner for sure which is why which is why they're leaving the
building that the way structurally the way it is right but I think it it's a little bit difficult to hold the same standards to uh what existed in 2003 sure because
that was being built fresh right too any other questions for this go ahead I just have one one question forication very beginning so just so would you pull that mic a little closer to you I'm sorry about that just so I'm clear um you are going to enhance The
Pedestrian facilities we're going to add some crosswalks and we're going to make some enhancements you can work that out with the with with the board engineer or or our office as appropriate yes that's correct if any approval were be granted certainly fair enough I just want to make sure that was thank you thank and if I may just for the record because I
we have our regular planner and engineer Miss Laney and Mr vo but John jar uh is our uh independent traffic uh engineer retained by the board for purposes of this application as well as other
applications uh for not all applications usually when the applicant has a traffic person we also get one certainly thank you because that way we're better prepared to interpret what you're saying but puts us on even Eventing even ground I think we were told
we yeah oh it's good a coin a phrase yeah um any other questions for this gentleman okay does the audience have a question for this for a second Charles aritz Billington
regarding the use of the current setic system with the increased volume of your operation until we get the sil band lifted does the current septic system have the capability to support this retail operation uh Chuck he basically
said they can hook up to the source system now they got permission to hook up to the source system we met with my client met with New Jersey American going to hook up they're going to hook up to the sour system I heard that but we are still under sewer ban only only
if American Water says it is if American water gain permission threshold they're under threshold that not that many people flush per de we're under the threshold this this would be allowed to connect by a sewer ban exemption yeah that's corre and I'll defer to Tech
technical reasons to American water but it's stipulated by the client or by the applicant um as well as since they are in the sewer service area the decommissioning of a septic system and connection to a sewer when sewer is available is good engineering practice
it's preferable and often obligated of use irrespective of whether we have volume or not the the volume specifically meets the criteria for exemption from the sewer ban so the the ban that's in place does not is not
imposed on this applicant and then that's beyond our jurisdiction that's between the water company and that that's the Board of Public Utilities requirements thank you any other questions from uh the
audience I see there's is there any y there was where' they go okay left okay we both call uh no let's take let's take a five minute break all right just so you can discuss that issue and we can do a bathroom break all right we're
going to come back in uh at 20 after 20 e e e e e e e e
e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e [Music] going to go to the next witness come back Swit the fine okay and this is the operations
gentl is that on no it is it is yes thank you name and address business address fine yep it's Timothy Enis Enos um with the yill Restaurant Group I'm their VP of operations uh business address is 163 Washington Valley Road in
Warren New Jersey great and testifying as a fact witness correct yes then you're qualified that's a fact we'll thank for providing a very nice outline testimony within our plan report told us
what you had to testify about I'm going try to run through it relatively quickly sure we can hours of operation be S days a week uh drivethru if permitted would be 6:30 a.m. until midnight the inside the dining room would be 9:00 a.m. to
11:00 p.m. guys please not talking go ahead sorry the inside uh the dining room would be 9:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. and your employees they come in a little earlier obviously yeah typically we arrive an hour prior to opening so 5:30
in the morning um and then we T typically take 45 minutes to an hour after closing to clean up and close the store up now one of the questions I had was if an employee comes in during business hours they would normally use the regular front door right they
wouldn't walk all the way around to that door on the Riley roadside and walk into the traffic area yeah that door uh that's shown what I would call the back door in the restaurant in this particular uh building would be basically an emergency exit Okay we
wouldn't come or go we wouldn't get deliveries through there um we wouldn't bring out trash there employees and deliveries to use the actual fun yeah correct y near the parking that was one of the things we were concerned with that there's no real U foot path to that door and like I said typically that
would be used for deliveries for bringing trash out things of that nature in this setup no it's an emergency exit basically okay thank you y for sure a number of employees on the max shift Max per shift be eight counting the manager
okay and then about how many total employees do you have 25 yeah okay um peak hours of operation obviously around around lunchtime yeah noon noon to 1:30 typically for our lunch business and
then uh dinner is typically 5: to 7: but the Wendy's business is very consistent typically throughout the day that was interfering with I'm sorry I didn't hear the last part peak hour noon to 1:30 and for lunch and then dinner Peak would typically run 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
it's always a little different per restaurant thank you and those were the hours that you would your normal hours for deliveries would be off hours uh what type of deliveries well the deliveries a um between midnight and 6:00 a.m. and then you'd have it would
an employee be there to greet the truck or would the truck be a not always we do What's called the key drop so um the delivery company has a key to the store and an alarm code to get in and out so we're not always there sometimes but it's rare nor would you need to be there as correct M was asked about uh sort of
the p number of customers in a peak hour um in a peak hour 25 to 30 okay and uh percent using the drivethru lane generally right now uh the business is about 60% through the drive through um
15ish percent actually sit and dine in and the rest are digital customers okay changing over time that sort of drive-thru or fairly consistent throughout your operation that percentage of yeah throughout the hours of operation that's pretty consistent
yes okay um we talked a little bit about um garbage and recy pick up that's something that ultimately you have to work with the vendor make sure they don't come in your peak times yeah I think what was spoken about regarding that topic was accurate I would say Okay
um how many times per week are you looking at for for trash and recycling two times a week picked up um how long is the truck there for trash and recycling when they come three minutes maybe tops they are quick they
want to be in in and out and get on to the next pickup frequency of deliveries we talked about the timing and how you work how what what are you going to anticipate here for the food deliveries correct three times a week okay now we talked about from time to time there's
going to be orders somebody orders 10 Burgers uh you don't want them to block how do you see that work we had some discussion some and sometimes they may be as just to slide up a little bit yes if the 's coming correct it's if an order yeah if an order is
going to hold up the overall line then we would typically pull that car up into a parking space and then we would run the food out as soon as it's done so we can keep the line moving the goal is obviously get everyone in and out as quick as we can now those percentages you were quoting about the drive D and
digit all that is that based on your analysis of existing restaurants that you have yeah that's our current state it um preo it was a lot different but postco but how are those how are those done those percentages are they done on a weekly basis monthly basis quarterly
basis how are those percentages kind yeah I look at them weekly monthly and quarterly actually as we look at our they pretty accurate yes okay M uh Uber Eats those sort of pickup Services what do you I think we said we're going to designate three spaces
for that yeah and that answers the question that you had about the uh pickup window in the front or back nether parking spaces um yeah so we Ed that window to get delivery drivers and mobile order customers or digital customers in and out faster they don't have to come all the way into the building uh they go up to the window
there's a doorbell they ring it it's actually that's right at the end of our kitchen so we just walk right up it's near the mobile shelf and we give that to them and get them on their way a system is developed to get because you correct and that's why those spots would be designated you know for digital pickup because they it's closest to the
window after the handicap the drivers obviously want to do this relatively quick yeah they make money on doing more orders per hour got it you talked a little bit about uh employee parking for restaurant like this what's your
experience I I didn't go yeah TP typically even with eight employees on one to two cars would be our employees um and it's generally the managers that are working that drive um most of our hourly employees don't drive they either use lift Uber if there's public transportation available they'll use
that um but yeah one to two cars unless I visit and then I might be a third M so you in terms of uh parking demand you don't you don't think you're going to see no this lot looks really good for that actually yeah okay um and uh we
talked about the signage also being on timer is that something you typically do yes correct it's a combination of timer and photo sensor so the timer is what activates the photo sensor to to be used the photo sensor um gets shut down 30 minutes after we close
so we close at midnight 12:30 in the morning the lights would go off um and it would just works off of that timer photos sensor system okay we'll have something in the in the rear for those overnight deliveries for
the truck drivers they'll have some lighting also yeah they have they generally have Lighting on their truck um and sometimes they'll hit what's called like an override button that will just pop them on for 20 minutes so they can do what they got to do and get out and that would be just the lights in the
door they're using to come in with that would be the the that uh the the area that they're operating and to be safe it wouldn't be the whole building they turn on no no uh chairman I think that's it m leaney provided a nice outline for us
and went through the review letters and picked up the most of all of the other issues okay well um do you have any questions just a couple of follow-up questions um one something I was going to suggest I know you're saying there not that many cars
or that would be parking long term because you don't have that many employees who actually driving to the site correct but because of those spaces that are sort of um you know furthest away and I thought I mean they're more difficult for pedestrians maybe new to
the site to get to you know without knowing the site it would you consider sort of requiring employee parking along that South property yeah so generally um I don't allow the employees to park close to the building I want the prime parking to be for the
customers right so we always ask them the park as far away as possible the only exception to that would be our closing employees after the dining room just before the dining room closed they would move their cars closer to the exit door for safety reasons got it um other than that they would be to the outskirts
of the property correct but but before we believe that are we uh conditioning any parking designating any parking for employes parking or or is it just uh employees Park as far as you can yeah I'm not opposed to painting right on the
parking spot employee parking if that that's fine by what's the proposal well I I well I wouldn't want to park I wouldn't want to designate that as employee parking because that would be further subtracted from your parking right well the the parking Supply takes
into account employee parking it does okay so I would just if we stipulate it and there I think it's an operation concern and all they need to do is is agree to par Park the employees nearest
TR essentially trash enclosure yeah we're happy to do that we've done that I don't think they have to go as far as labeling it no I no but I um anyway then the only other question I had I didn't put this in my letter but I know we this board reviewed a Taco Bell that have
outdoor uh eating area do you propose or anticipate having any areas designated outside for uh people who may you know go want e outside go yeah I'm just going to turn and ask them because if the plans have it if they don't then we
don't I didn't see any I didn't see anyo no no patio okay all right okay yeah sometimes we do sometimes we don't I don't think this site is conducive there's not much room yeah then no there would be no seating added or anything like that okay um do you want to ask that question yeah so yeah um the
discussion of deliveries and loading operations right receiving typically happens back a house mhm uh from the architectural plans it seems apparent that the receiving will have to occur at that back of house the northern side of
the building because any any deliveries to the front would have to go through the the service desk the C the cashier to get into the rear um I just want I apologize because I don't know the North and the South stuff where the parking spots are is that yeah that's the south
side okay and so that's your main entrance y got you right um it would they would deliver through there in this site and so operations wise you're comfortable with that delivery the only access to the back of house is past the service desk for checkout yeah because
it would happen after we're closed okay and um our delivery partners are awesome and sometimes when we have lots like this they go a little further um to get us where we need to be okay so you can accommodate that easily operationally outside of working hours obviously absolutely right okay so then that that would give you
the opportunity to not necessarily have to queue up back into the the drive aisle and and ultimately what i' say um with the delivery drivers they are really good about figuring out how to do what they need to quickly and safely um and we
don't generally dictate like you know what they have to do so they'll either back straight up to the front if the driver finds that easier to do yeah cuz we're closed anyway okay they wouldn't be interfering with anything no okay no uh would you be the one we talked to about the discussion concerning getting
rid of that overhang in the wall and the dve I would not be it operations so I'm sorry um okay uh any questions of our board members go ahead Jer um are you the person that talked about market demand and need and
any analysis like that you can try me and I can see you know given that we already have two fast food drive-thru restaurants y I'm just curious if there's any evidence that you have have any market analysis or something that shows a need or or more demand for another one in that same area I don't
have any specific data that I can speak to um I can tell you that based on the two options that you have in town we better um I like the choice but yeah I don't have any data specific information now that like Long Hills in
in play right now like there's a lot of banks there like let's just everybody Zoom there how does that work you know no yeah that's that's not really within our jurisdiction kind of is point out restaurants are permitted restaurants are permitted drive-throughs are not right that's the only thing we're
talking about that's the whole thing so but it what I mean by our jurisdiction it's not our jurisdiction to question their their their desire to want to come here as a Wendy's because that's their financial the reason I understand that and I never
ask about the the merits of the business operations or the financial assessment itself but in this particular case I do because this is our second bank that's now going to be converted to a fast food dri I understand others available and who knows where we are in three or five
or 10 years now are we now going another this board does not set president not a pres I understand that so it's whether want every applicant will tell you what's next door and there's another drive-through right there sing we could take that into consideration or not all right I think it's a valid question yeah
and I stand by it thank you for answering it I guess I guess that I maybe along the same lines is you're you're a regional manager or some sort of I'm the VP of the company yeah so how like this within the vicinity of this
Wendy's is I guess in terms of just general sighting do you usually site them a certain distance from another site another Wendy's you mean in term oh another Wendy's yeah so the um Wendy's Corporation the brand because we're a franchisee of them um they dictate that
they have um what they call are kind of bands of they don't allow us to encroach upon other Wendy's restaurants unless there are own and if we own them then we're allowed to build them as close as we want but if they are owned by someone else then yeah there would be a rule about that so the closest one to you now
would be the one I guess in the blue star for I guess I guess yeah it's not owned by us it's not owned by you okay correct so you're not like Dunkin Donuts they put one every block practically no no and I just want to ask our attorney so the lines of my question my prior
question um so does that stand to the um the relevance of the positive criteria if there is a community demand for some kind of product or service U does that help with the Positive criteria well the again the non-permitted aspect of this
use is the drive-thru right so if we're focusing on the drive-thru then uh generally as I'm sure we'll hear from our planner as well as the applicants planner with a D1 use f Ian for the positive criteria there are three standards uh that could constitute
special reasons generally one is an inherently beneficial use as hungry as I may get at 11 or 12:00 at night the drive-thru Pro would not qualify as an inherently beneficial use under the ml
or applicable case law section 2 has some listed as what would constitute uh explicitly inherently beneficial uses uh the second would be an an undue hardship which is a greater undue hardship standard than that which exist for C1
undo hardship variances um would almost have to be zoned into inutility or close there two economic inutility for uh uh that to be a special reason for D1 use variance the third would be particular
site suitability which uh the Supreme Court and the price the hedi case made clear doesn't constitute unique site suitability in other words it's not the only site in the community or town that this particular use would fit um but
just that there's something about the site that renders it particularly well suited for that non-permitted use again here it's the the drive-thru and I won't ask Miss Laney or Mr McDon how I did uh I'm confident
enough to know how I did are you saying that you know if there's a different site that's a better use or no no no it's it's that this particular site is suit is suitable as particular suitability for the
non-permitted aspect of the use here it's not a non-permitted use per se it's a non-permitted aspect of a use the drive-thru but the whole site I think we talked about you know was challenging for the vehicles that have to come on
and trucks and you know drive through roof we're going to hear about so I'm still trying to understand that it that this site is the site not the site no no no the court said not unique just
particularly suited I think it's best for you to hear the applicant's full case including the planner's testimony uh for you to hear why the applicant contends that the drive-thru for this
site is particularly well suited if that is in fact the positive criteria uh that the uh planner relies on on and you have we have our planner also to answer questions I'm just essentially reciting the law under uh uh D1 drive through
they could still come and say we want to use this with a drivethru if there were no drive-thru then there would be no D1 use variants required and there might if it already wasn't set up with a oh it wasn't already set up with it well that's they could still come and say hey we want to deuse for this but this will
happen that's not the case and right too big of a drive we have an existing dri existing Drive Right reasonably re you're going to be reasonably reap it's read adaption and here in this particular case as I recall uh
drive-throughs were permitted for banks no surprise and pharmacies uh it's the restaurant that it's not specifically permitted in in the uh Zone in the ordinance now but again you have an Adaptive reuse situation probably be part of the argument but we're stealing
all or at least some perhaps of the Thunder from the applicants planner and our planner so uh do you have any more testimony before we I do not unless there are other questions well that's what I going to make sure that you're done any more questions of this witness for the for the uh operations end of it
I I have another question I probably know way too much about how fast food restaurants work uh unfortunately but um so right now I know most fast food resonants as you said have a a quite a bit of digital customers they usually
offer both uh window pickup or you have this I guess you have a different idea where you have a window that you can external window but some offer drive-thru window pickup is that going to be offered for digital correct customers as well yeah they can um opt
to pick up how they prefer okay um because that would then create what do you see that I mean I guess in your in your current yeah the majority of customers don't do um pickup through the drive-thru um because it sort of defeats the purpose of doing the mobile order I
agree right I I don't do it well in other words you're saying they use Services um so if you do a mobile order right you place your order on the app it comes to our kitchen we make it as you're arriving at the restaurant the whole goal and why people do it is they don't want to wait in line so you do
have the option to pick that order up through the drive-thru it's rare that people take that option but we do offer it they generally would walk in or in this case they'll walk up to the window some will still walk in if they don't want to use the outside window that's okay so they could use the outside
window just like the Uber people and corre it's designed for all mobile customers correct all right so that would eliminate people going through that and even when and and the other really nice part about having that window is when the um dining room is closed um the delivery drivers don't have to
get in the drivethru line at night time between that 10: and midnight they come up to that window and the reason for that is they don't want to be held up in the line they want to come get their food and go because we make it for when they arrive is it 10: or 11: at midnight we can make I thought you testified to 11 I'm sorry yes 11:00 p.m. no we can
make it 10: okay I'm sorry 11: p.m. I just heard you uh breakfast you serve breakfast obviously yes we how how does that compare in terms of you know you set your peak times 12 to 130 5 and seven what's your Peak breakfast times our Peak breakfast time usually around
9:00 a.m. that late 9 to about 10 yeah and and to be frank I mean our Peak breakfast doesn't even touch what our lunch and dinner business is as good as it is and you should have some got work on that right I'm not I'm
not sure if you're the person to the demand go to the demand wait I know uh I I asked before about a sign designating the entrance on planfield Avenue and the exit you sa that for the next he's our
traffic expert I think he's to I can do that you're the operations guy you're the VP I will wait for the next guy too okay okay any more questions of the operations gentlemen okay any public questions for the operations gentlemen no okay hearing
not closing it to the public right okay thank you you're welcome next who's next call Doug piac he's G to add a little more he's our traffic expert we were told at the beginning we needed a traffic he's the traffic guy tra
guy ex entrance need site plan up dog um we could go there if we need it but for the time being Adam can you help him get the site plan up just in case over was seamless Doug your professional qualifications yeah I me graduate of Lehi University in Bethlehem
Pennsylvania I graduated with a bachelor's of Science and civil engineering in 1998 I've been working in the field of traffic engineering since that time been licensed for approximately the last uh 21 years in the state of New Jersey I've testified as an expert before over a 100 Municipal
planning and zoning boards in New Jersey I've been here before I did do the Taco Bell and I did work on the 44 planfield Road application as well you're expert we have an on but you heard a bunch of comments so I'm sort of going to uh leave it to you to not repeat what
was said but add whatever information you think may be appropriate for the board in its decision yeah I had a nice big outline here describing the location and the roadways but I think we're well deep into this uh at this point but the the renovation of the bank to a uh fast
food restaurant with a drive-thru from a traffic engineering impact perspective is not a very heavy case based on the analysis We performed and then analysis that we did we it was December 13 2024 traffic impact analysis and within that what we did is we projected the volumes
associated with the drive-thru restaurant using it data uh based on the 40 seat restaurant that's proposed So based on this it data we looked at the morning and the evening and the Saturday Peak periods and we look at about 25 customers 25 to 30 customers in the
morning um which is a little off in the testimony but about 20 to 25 customers uh in the evening and then Saturday Peaks a little bit at more like 50 customers based on the it data um however uh a lot of that traffic as you may have heard in prior testimony
from other applications is passed by in nature so people that visit fast food restaurants during these peak hours are usually either commuters on their way to work in the morning uh home in the evening or just running errands uh typically on a on a Saturday or at those times so they said it says about half
that traffic is already on the roadway so you're not drawing all the traffic new to this area it's it's about half um and basically both the it and NJ do consider 100 peak hour trips new peak
hour trips as significant and something that may cause impact at offsite locations this site does about half that traffic so it's not anticipated to generate any impacts at off-site locations but we did do uh an analysis of the adjacent intersection and the driveway just a double check and our
original analysis used it used the uh the volumes at the signalized intersection of Valley and plane field based on the traffic report that was initially done for the assisted living facility across the street on planfield road that was done by Shropshire and we inflated those volumes to create a 2026
no build condition uh using the Morris County growth factor of 2 and a half% we established a no build condition that would not have the restaurant and then a build condition that added that trip generation that I discussed before and then we did our standard uh level of service analyses where a is exceptional
and f means that the movements on the roadway are operating at capacity there's just not you know enough room to process more Vehicles without significant delay and we found that the movements at the intersection will operate at a level of service C or better during the morning and evening
peak hours with or without the restaurant the levels of service basically don't change what the restaurant at traffic added to this location uh showing that it has minimal impact and the level of service at the drive way also works at a acceptable level of service C so you're not going
to have very much delay uh or impact associated with this development we did receive a comment letter from uh Mr Jar's office uh requesting some updated traffic data because we did use data that was originally from 2021 we did do traffic counts last
Thursday of uh February 20th I don't know if that was last Thursday time flying already um during the morning and evening peak hour we use that uh growth factor that I discussed ear to create another 2026 condition we added traffic associated with the assisted living
facility with 44 plane field and with a residential development that we heard about um to the east on Valley road again we created no build conditions when we added the site traffic to those volumes we compared them to our original study and we found that actually when you add the summation of all the volumes
at the intersection they're actually lower than the original study that we did about 70 Vehicles lower in the morning peak hour and 80 in the evening we we redid the levels of service analysis with and without the restaurant we found that we do not change the levels of service one movement actually
goes uh from the prior uh report level service D the westbound left turn lane has a lot more volume not a lot more volume some more volume than our prior report but the we found that the restaurant does not impact that movement where it degrades levels of service so we kind of did two studies for this to
determine whether it was any impact at the intersection and at the driveway and in both of those instances found that there was not a significant amount of traffic at theg graded the levels of service at the intersection and the driveway will operate at level service C uh with both volumes uh accounted
for uh then uh we did a site plan review as well uh again I won't um beat a dead horse with the site driveway but the sight lines are clear at the driveway it will operate at good levels of service we heard discussions regarding the delivery vehicle uh that can uh use the
site uh off peak and navigate the site with some uh maneuvering in the parking aisles uh significantly uh sufficient um spaces available for refuges and ambulance as well uh 21 parking spaces are provided
which exceed the ordinance requirement as we've discussed before of 17 spaces um parking generally for fast food restaurants that have drive-throughs is a little bit lower because people rely on the drive-thru you heard that about 60% of the traffic or peak hour volumes will be using the drive-thru parking
spaces are designed to accordingly uh 9 ft wide by 18 ft deep there's going to be 2 adaa spaces um with respect to the queuing and the drive-thru our office has seen a increase in that stacking since covid uh
you know Co created substantially more stacking kind of calm down a little bit now and we see maximum is generally around nine vehicles in a q Lane this site is great it allows for 14 spaces so I'm very confident that at no point is this queue going to back up into the
parking area where it's going to affect on-site circulation um and generally people just are you know if they see a long line they tend to go in but the mobile ordering I think pretty much dominates a lot of that you know people Park and don't want to wait so overall like I
said based on our analysis not not a significant impact and that's not taken into account you know or comparing traffic associated with the prior Bank operations and the site with respect to the parking Supply stall space aisle space uh drive-through stacking is all
been designed to accommodate the operations okay uh you had a chance to review the templates that Mr candle prepared yes uh uh can you give the board uh uh your
observations on that and then we'll we'll come back to the Landscaping pickup trucks or the trailer or more difficult yeah no I you know I agree that the vehicles will fit on site but I certainly agree with Mr jar that these moving should be made while the facility
is not in operation because the vehicle will be blocking parking spaces and also the the drive AIS that's for um that's for the delivery vehicle that's for specifically for the food delivery correct um any thoughts on the landscaper pickup trailers or that will
be something that the local landscapers are going to sort of learn that there not really a great spot for that yeah I I didn't originally look at that I mean I would wager a guess that the bank at sometime had larger Vehicles be it a landscaper or a tree guy getting some
cash he would they would park usually they're not going to go through that they they through the drive-thru correct and uh I mean the the the the brings truck itself is a larger vehicle that had to navigate the site so they're there is some history of some slightly larger vehicles but um I I haven't
specifically looked at where these vehicles would lay out but they they may Park as well but again if they learn that it's hard to navigate they might be going to Taco Bell or Burger King if in fact those are more convenient they can process their orders quickly and get in and out of the site as well so landscape
Birds maybe in a regular pickup truck that could either get through the drivethru or Park absolutely uh but there'll be potentially some landscapers that have trailers that um pres they're going to understand after
the first time it's going to be TR yeah if they have ride on mowers you know on a trail or it may be a little difficult to navigate some of the parking spaces without multiple turning movements not something that's solvable from your perspective here you know is there any
any uh any any uh modifications that you're seeing for this particular site I mean just just hearing the concern looking at the the plan and the existing conditions I I I was looking for a possibility of of putting a space somewhere for someone but I I I don't
see foresee that ability here well even change changing the way to drive through curves there isn't any space to do that uh I'd probably rely a little bit more on the on the on the site engineer but I did personally didn't see anything that could be vastly tweaked to put a space
for them do does our traffic guy have any comments questions I I I think this is challenging and the site is not designed in a manner that can handle articulated vehicles of any sort so maybe it might
not be idea bad idea to put a sign at the entrance not allowing any articulated vehicles that would mean any vehicle that's tagging a trailer yeah talking to the Mike you don't have to look at me that sorry it's really hard to do that I know I know but I watch
your testimony on okay so so it would it it would appear to me that this site is not particularly well suited for articulated Vehicles okay even small ones right even the landscape guy with a trailer it's it's very problematic itic so maybe the simpler thing to do would be why don't we simply put a sign
prohibiting articulated vehicles on the site I don't you don't need them for your deliveries your all your deliveries are going to be a 40ft straight job or a 37t garbage truck okay if for emergency services we're going to have a 28 or 32t ambulance or we're going to have a you
know the fir truck's never going to never going to he's articulated he's not coming on the site it's not articulated but our smaller well the smaller one is it a smaller truck they already testified they're not com I yeah they they had that yep agreed so that would seem to be the simplest solution to this
if the applicant be willing to agree to it what would what would it say on that s i don't we'd have to Fig you know something means exactly uh that means essentially anything that's a two-piece vehicle in other words a aaer motorized part and a trailer part so we would okay
and there's some verbiage that I'm I'm sure we could figure something out I would I would leave it to your team to figure out what that sign should be and then bring that to Jo Joe or myself and and and we can work that out so providing you're willing to agree to that right we we understand that are are
some challenges and and I got thumbs up that that sounds very reasonable uh to have some language and I think certainly the local landscapers they're GNA understand in a very short period of time well that I think the first time they drive on this site they're GNA understand really quick because this is
going to be very difficult to get back out of again so I I think that we should probably try and do something to to encourage them not to even try that agreed that certainly sounds like a reasonable condition can I go into a couple of questions about the traffic part of it just kind of get us wrapped
up so so first of all I'd like to say that I I I with regard to the traffic testimony uh I agree with u Mr poc's testimony with regard to the level of service whatnot I just want to point out that the new data and the new um analysis did indicate a level of service
D he he in the beginning he said everything C or better but in all reality when he did the second part we have a level service D the the left turn and I'm sure everybody knows this the left turn from Valley Road on the plane field is very heavy so actually I'm
looking here it's 300 uh trips in the in the uh the PM peak hour it's a very heavy left turn and what's the distance between making that left turn to the light uh you know something he didn't provide a I I didn't see the Q analysis
for this you have do you have that information for that do do do you have a did CU it wasn't you didn't have the analysis in your report do you have the Quee for that I'd like to know what that is too but just so you know board this is nothing that's on them the their site first of all doesn't impact that
movement and second of all it's this it's no build and full build there exactly the same numbers so that telling me that their site's not affecting that movement this is an existing condition the reason I bring it to our attention is that something we need to keep an eye on yeah no I'm just curious because you have those gas stations that are right
next to the light and people can't make make the turn to get into the lane I'm not saying that exists here I just want to have a a mental picture of what the distance is between the exit for the Wendy's to the proposed Wendy the gas station LC oil has a no left turn or no
right turn sign as you're leaving the West exit yeah that makes that that people follow that so does this site need a no left Turner no right turn no left turn if you're leaving this parking lot and and 10 people are already in
line for that light at the Walgreens and the next car can't leave this parking lot what happens well that that's what I want to know the distance because I haven't seen I personally haven't observed it happening with a bank because there aren't that many cars in and out of the bank because obviously
they didn't want that building anymore cuz there probably wasn't anybody but I just wanted to know the distance so that we would know how many cars could be there lined up and still make the left turn to get in line to make a left or right at the
intersection um cuz I I don't know if there is a problem if if there's enough space and it doesn't appear that the cars back up that long there might not be an issue they got little cars on this one in the S about just taking them and putting them on the street right it
doesn't it doesn't quite work like that cuz you know the traffic lights operating every 90 seconds it probably has a different you know time time time and delay in the site itself I I'd like to like there so many questions you guys just have going to just just try my best now first of all I feel very comfortable
that left turns exiting the site are not going to be a problem for for the for the misp pality all right um first of all if there is any issue that traffic is going to be stuck on our site so that's going to be limiting for them not for us right okay and based on the data that's been provided the traffic counts
the level service analysis and information I have in front of me I feel very comfortable that we're not going to have a capacity issue at their driveway the only concern myself and the police jointly had was about the circulation at the driveway and um they have addressed those concerns by widening the driveway
making other changes on site so that that circulation much better I I was concerned with that too because the way it is now it's kind of narrow and correct it's kind of hard to make a really good turn either way out of that but I'm glad that they recognize that yeah they they did based on the comments
and they also made changes to that curb return and made it so it's more comfortable and they've shown that in their turning templates um uh there's so many questions okay what was the next one do I cover it all I have followup if you're finished well I have a just just one more thing I
wanted to go through is I wanted to point out to the to to to for your guys con convenience that that the analysis that he did was very conservative so hence the reason why I feel good about it so he projected a a a higher amount of traffic than I think can reasonably
be expected at this site and he did his analysis based on that higher number so that gives me that level of comfort that we have a little bit of cushion there so in case this is a fantastically successful Wendy's I think that we're okay from a safety perspective with
regard to the traffic okay the the other thing I I'd like is if you wouldn't mind a Doug would you please for the benefit of the board so they understand could you go through your table three and explain to the board your trip generation comparison I think it's important for you guys to understand the difference between because this has come
up many many times the difference between the trip generation for the bank and the trip generation for the Wes's use I I think that it's very important for you guys to see that that what page is that it's on it's a page five of their original report okay yeah uh page
five bottom of the page is table three and what we did is we compared the trip generation associated with the 40 seat restaurant and the previously operating two window bank and you'll see um in the morning peak hour this projects the
restaurant to do um uh about 35 more inner out movements over the course of an hour so really 17 customers probably high for this location as you heard earlier the Wendy's isn't expecting a that substantial of a of a of a breakfast rush um the the evening peak
hour when the restaurant's doing um significantly more volumes uh it's actually lower than what it says a two window Bank does so oh I don't yeah no I well when Banks were you know before is lately there was nobody going in there correct and and some of that dat is
before you know the substantial use online bank in and people are taking their paychecks most banks closed up their drive-throughs they didn't even have them anymore yeah no but historically you know certainly if the bank was constructed in 200 I think three we said
earlier back then Banks were doing fair amount of traffic yeah and then Saturday yeah Saturday thank you um uh the restaurant is is probably based on it data its busiest there doing about 20 customers or 40
trips more than the bank would have done so you know one one customer every 3 minutes more than the bank so to give you guys a quick summation pretty much the am p and peak hour I don't see us having any problems the only time we're going to see those of us who live around here and drive this area the only time you're going to
see things busier there is pretty much on the Saturday okay you're going to see that the Wendy's at lunchtime is going to have a lot of activity the good news is is pretty much everything else around isn't going to be that busy other than the Burger King in the Bell right they're far enough away you know yeah it
it fits with it's it's in the right place and you from a traffic perspective we like to see the uses mix like this because gas stations aren't you know lunchtime is not the time everybody's going for their gas you know um so it's it's a good mix you know the way this falls into place there joh to Ed's point
he said uh that um sorry you talked about Taco Bell and uh and Burger King Taco Bell has a driveway that's directly across acoss well nearly directly across from this one driveway D Bell has two
Burger King has two this has one do you see that to be a problem in any way no I think it's going to be uh it'll work just fine and and I also feel that if there are problems it's going to be on their site not on our road okay that makes me feel a lot more comfortable
about how this operation is going to be okay that's my question if you don't want to me following up on that that's what I had from before that the problem's going to be their site but if cars are stacked up at the light at Valley um car is heading north on planfield Avenue and there's no way to
exit and make a left from the parking lot of Wendy's what happens I mean do people block the road does one people Edge out I mean I'm not trying to be alarmist but I've seen that kind of stuff that's one thing and then the same thing coming the other way if you're heading south I'm sorry North on
planfield and you're trying to make a left into Wendy's in in a high traffic time not going to be a challenge um based on the data that was provided and the information the traffic counts that he just did a couple weeks ago okay and you looking at the data that he that he took
from shop shers report from years ago all right I believe that that's not a problem that we're going to experience at this driveway I think we see that in other places but I think that we're not going to see that here okay yeah good qu good question your spot on that is a that is the concern uh with regard to
traffic volume and these things uh were projected on based on the development in the area as well cuz uh I believe there's some proposed yes that was his update what it is is because you guys were nice enough to hire me for looking
at some other things we noticed in the original report they didn't have those things in there so he did an updated report and updated traffic count and took into account other projects that Deborah gave us the information on and he's now included all that traffic in his report in addition to that he added
2 and a half% gross grow and sorry little tongue twister there and and on top of that he used very conservative numbers from it I think my experience um based with the operator testimonies was pretty spot-on Wendy's doesn't really do a giant breakfast
business so I don't see that being a maybe that will be maybe our community be lucky and we have a bigger business for breakfast their their lunch and their dinner is is where they're going to see it and Saturday is the definitely the biggest day I see that on every site that that I look at
I have a question yeah excuse me um this director to I'm sorry I forget your name John John Mr John sorry um we're comparing uh Burger King and Taco Bell have two entrance uh two ways of uh getting in and out of the parking lot um
for larger vehicles are such would you consider that easier for them to go in and out with an two two ways of entering the parking lot absolutely yes there's no question that both of those sites are more suited to circulating larger vehicles and and no issue yeah I don't I
don't see to say they they're better set up for a restaurant rather than the PNC Bank uh drive through restaurant yeah yeah I I think there is any any so you say the PNC Bank may not be this suited for the traffic problems as well as
Burger King and Taco Bell I we're talking very different things um and and you're and so uh maybe I don't understand your question exactly but let let me me try and try and vet it out with you cuz you have a concern um this
site um does not provide the same generous access as those other two sites do they both have entrances and exits that allow for vehicles especially larger vehicles to circulate more freely this site will not allow that so they
have to do things like prohibit articulated vehicles from entering the site because they can't allow that so if if your question is is um will this site um safely and effici efficiently operate articulated Vehicles my answer
is no it will not but if your question is will the site operate safely and efficiently utilizing a 40-foot truck to deliver and a garbage truck and have access to our ambulance whatnot I believe that it will operate safely and efficiently for those vehicles uh now if
we want to if you know if we are concerned about the other vehicles having access to this and the board wants to allow them to have access then I definitely have some concerns with those types of vehicles having access to the site and but but normal traffic normal cars it shouldn't be a problem
normal cars and those two types of delivery trucks should not be a problem okay I if I could add piggy back off that a little bit um it must have been the time I passed through there the several times I passed through since I know wheny was going to come to the site I of course looked at Taco Bell I looked at Burger King and I noticed like 9:00
as you seen school buses that pulled in Burger King Taco Bell um I even seen they have the uh buses that run from New York to uh the Sands in Pennsylvania and I guess they come off and they Park in his parking lot and 50 people get off and going to Burger King or Taco Bell and eat um I'm just thinking about
something like that let's say they're coming down planfield Avenue they try to turn into Wendy's now they realize I can't get in you're saying it's on that site technically it's not on a site it'll actually back up into the street mhm so basically I just want to make clear the Taco Bell Burger King is is
better set up for restaurants than the PNC Bank cuz it was built a long time ago I wouldn't say w is better set up for larger large buses and articulated Vehicles cor and restaurants with the drivethru drive there's like so many different moving parts right you have the drive-thru you have I mean in that
case we should probably have the sign saying No Buses or because bus trailers No Buses no trailers No Buses would buses wouldn't be good in there either that would not be fun I'm I'm just curious have you noticed the when watchong Hills is right up the street of
on planfield ABY I'm sure you're familiar with that I'm sorry I forget your name sir yeah no problem duck Mr duck um and at 2:30 or whatever they usually there'll be more bus traffic of course but I noticed if they drop off at 9:00 they'll they'll come down and go to the restaurants or whatever and that
could be an issue too and you said your peak hours are 9:00 and with these buses leaving watch Chung Hills I'm just wondering did you notice that with your traffic study 1 week day was it December 13th a weekday or no um yes yeah we we looked weekday but our our more recent counts
were done Thursday February 20th so it's just you know what's that two weeks ago about right and a half ago I didn't observe specific vehicles at Taco Bell and Burger King so I haven't seen actual buses on those properties um our peak hours of the roadway that we looked at
were from 8:00 to 9:00 a.m. so a little before the school you know arrival and similarly in the evening when the intersections at its busiest is 4:45 to 5:45 so that's kind of after the you know school let out and rush so um
during those times where there may be a bus or school that the traffic on the roadways are are lower you know they're not the absolute commuter Peaks so there is a little more capacity on the roadways for those vehicles um but I did not observe them using other restaurants
in the area I Mr Doug I know you said you had looked at you know when we started talking about the trailers and the trucks is there anything that you could see that could be done to make the site better when these uh maybe another exit or something would that make this property better for the uh restaurant and for traffic in and out
the only ex ex exit would be or entrance would be off valy road yeah outside of you know punching through another driveway somewhere which would then be you know within the drive-thru Lane which you probably don't want to introduce additional traffic right mid drive-through Lane because you
have people waiting in the queue um no like I said I you know as I was sitting after I heard the concerns about the Landscaping vehicles I was looking for something to you know maybe shift or tweak and I I couldn't necessarily find anything specific that would be able to store a you said you did the Taco Bell
have you went back there and seen anything that could have been better and you could have used it for the PNC Bank um not necessarily I I actually say I'm I'm surprised at the not that I've counted but just being on the site it's kind of quiet you know I I haven't really seen during rush hours it being
very busy so I I anticipated it'll be Sim or here you know I as even tonight I drove through Taco Bell and it was was pretty quiet yeah well for Wendy's sake I hope it's not that bad well I mean I I don't know the business model I don't know how many burgers or tacos you need
to sell to be you know successful but ask question that a little while [Laughter] ago thank you um I understand you're the men ping act to uh ask about can you put an entry or
entrance exit sign at the driveway yeah it's my understanding we don't have those shown on the plan right now I I certainly don't think you know the ones that are not that high up off the ground yeah absolutely enter and exit um and also painted arrows too yeah I I I don't think there's any
problem with that and if we work with you know Mr jar and and um Mr uh forgive my peration mine's not easy either um uh you know we can you know do an enter and exit signing as whatever restriction for the larger vehicles too the only yeah
that way people don't guess and they they're told because it's yeah you know as a traffic engineer I don't necessarily I'm not against signage that directs people the right way to go so I don't think that's a bad idea uh any U questions real quick
before we go to the public um so to either of you our traffic expert or the applicants um the awning height architecturally is 11 ft and then there's a clearance sign at 10
ft uh are there any vehicles that would be at that height that have an issue with being accommodated for the drive-thru like I'm just wondering with the distance around the V around the
building in Q until you're under the awning if we should include signage at the entrance to the drive-thru Joe I wanted them to eliminate that whole thing if they could the awning itself awning the the wall everything because
very few people have that and I believe that would be better for business not to restrict the size of the vehicle through there if you can get a big truck a jacked up truck or width of something I think people are going to be hitting that wall it's a little complicated so
we're going to see where we get so I guess let's just start with yeah the 10t or 11t height what what vehicles would would have an issue with that that high clearance juster yeah
well that's not the right hopefully none dou the one on the floor there's a what are you uh A3 this is A1 clear and they were going to but there's going to also be a a crash bar
as you enter the drive through so a vehicle of a certain height won't get to that point right so that well that's why I'm asking so but if it does so is there hit that thing on the entrance aisle from the parking area to the drive right the
start of the drive-thru yes is there a proposed clearance bar yes that's what he said okay specifically where I I hadn't seen it Adam's going to come back up
so and then with that in terms of the sightlessness of it on planfield road whether or not it's necessary or if it could be addressed with signage at the entrance to that area whether we need a clearance bar
there that has yeah oh at planfield Road uh or at either the entrance at the entrance of the at the entrance to the drive-thru right so as you so if you're traveling south on plane you the right hand turn in and a full U into the
drivethru at that that break from the drive aisle in the parking to the drive-thru MH that would traditionally be where you would put the clearance bar yeah it's in the front yard it's in a right it's in a very visible place can
it just be simply accommodated by a clearance sign rather than a clearance bar I I don't see why not I mean I don't know if that's a typical Wendy's operation that's something they
prefer got like I I just I'm asking because I hadn't seen I hadn't seen it proposed on the site plan or detail for it so I assumed there wasn't one and I wanted to make sure we don't get all the way around the building with a vehicle that can't go in the bypass lane cuz the
awning is also in B ear yeah so the the clearance bar is actually limited to to 9 ft because there's an awning associated with the order with the order board so okay so there's an awning at the order board yeah so you're not going to get vehicles
over 9 ft throughout the system okay and I take it they know it so people who drive those cars yeah I would know those are probably going to be more often some of the larger vehicles that may not be allowed on on the site
so I'm I'm I'm getting confused again so I'd like this for clarity so there will be a overhead clearance bar at the entrance to the drive-thru that prohibits any vehicle from 9 ft or taller and so they'll get stopped right there correct so they they won't get in
and cause disaster here they'll hit the clearance bar they'll stop they'll have to back up and go to a parking spot correct all right that obviously that needs to be detailed and given to the to the board engineer for his review for and safety agreed okay and maybe combine
that with a sign we're in agreement on on the sign before you even make that right turn right so you're not backing up good direction from the chair yes all right any other
questions no articulated vehicles or buses or buses trailers no trailers no yeah that's articulated we're going to have to work on that we're going to have to work on that sign together and come up with something that that's affective that's true that's true people driving those probably don't use the word
articulated so you're probably going no trailers correct got to keep it simple yes sir it even still it won't read the sign it still go through y agreed and you got to have a little sign with picture little picture with it
circle with the X through it yeah no I'm serious because little picture is go a long way get it not everyone reads trailer before we leave uh this Mr chairman the uh just wanted to confirm
uh basically uh the uh conditions on pages actually the where's Page oh page five of Mr Jar's uh report right engineering your stipulating to all those conditions correct
I think you got through most of the report but I didn't hear these stipulated uh Mr chair in the mo looking at the hour we are going to need a motion for an extension yeah do I have a uh um just we're not finishing tonight
uh do I have a motion to extend the meeting another 15 minutes so move I ask a question um is that going to be sufficient to complete the application I don't I don't think so I don't think even if we extend it to 11 why we just talk about the application and what we
actually need to get through it well I just want to do another 15 minutes so we can do that okay so we'll stop in 15 minutes and reassess we'll need another Motion in 15 minutes I was going to try to at least introduce the signage package because I I heard some
concerns we're not going to finish tonight but I Le want to sort of get it out there that's that's what I'm trying to get feedback if it's going to take a half hour then we'll just make a motion for a half hour and then just all right I don't know how at least to get the sign package are we okay just go until the signage package is done can we just
do that I know let's go to 11 do I have a motion to extend it to 11 motion to stick to extend to 11 have a second all in favor all right we're going we're going to go to 11 or shorter but no later no
later no okay page five of six all page five or six yeah of six of six oh five of right talking about paragraph eight I mean I think we talked about vehicle circulation um design standards that we have to meet y I think we're agreement
with that um lighting plan sheet I can't speak to but I think we hit up the lighting with the prior witness or two witnesses ago right and I think I hit everything that Mr jar had in his letter you're good Mr jar we're good thanks you STI away it
you'll give us a chance just to review that and let you know if uh if there's any issues with any of those think we AG so that's condition on page five draw letter
okay any other questions for this traffic witness any uh audience questions for the traffic Witness no no okay close it to the audience um next witness we're going to
put on Mr MCD we're going to start with see where we finish yeah okay hand with you buy them you got to use them I got the box in my closet at home for two years you're uh you're already
swor I was sworn it was a while ago but I was um what are your credentials John mcdna project planner licensed current in good standing in New Jersey also aicp that's a national certification current and a good standing I've been here
before multiple times you're deemed ACC thank you I have personal knowledge Mr MCD does this every night he's the planner of choice New Jersy sorry for that do it every night that's not good is true tell the better half then right
same mdal to start at least in the time that we have to try to run through the signage package and perhaps maybe get a little feedback I have plenty of time to do what I need to do Mr chairman thank you for that for that extension I really have two pages of bullets here it takes
me about five minutes each each page one page is going to take you through the use one page is going to take you through the signs that's it's really the relief that the applicant is seeking here I understand that so we'll go through it if we need to take a deeper dive we certainly can but um I think you
can find good backup for what the applicant is doing here in your own master plan I was going to give you a lot of outside statistics to support the uh the industry standards and the popularity of the drive-thru I think we all know since covid the popularity
skyrocketed up and it has stayed up because of its convenience and and um the aspects that are driving consumer behavior and emerging Trends in your own master plan talk about emerging Trends and I'm referring to your your 2023
master plan um in particular pages 3-6 and 3-7 where you have some highlighted bullets about emerging Trends is talk about retail space needs and we know your community is about 55% open land that's part of the beauty of of your
community the natural openness of the land you've got about 45% that's developed most of that 45% is residentials so you have a very small percentage to select from for your retail base and obviously one of your core tenants in your master plan is to
have a strong and viable commercial base your master plan uh does not like sites such such as this that are not productive particularly in a in a commercial Zone District so on 3-6 in the master plan it talks about retail
space needs and obviously talking about consumer Behavior again the preference for e-commerce and how that has hurt bricks and mortar retail what's nice about this land use is that this is not something you can order online and then UPS comes and delivers it you might get
it from Uber Eats but they still have to go to the store and get it so this is different than your traditional bricks and mortar and it's really something you can't you can't get on the internet uh your emerging Trends also talks about
increase in retail vacancies and importantly you've got a bullet in there that talks about increased demand for drive-thru Windows there's a whole paragraph in the master plan under 3-7 that supports the increased demand for
drive-thru uh windows and the changing consumer preferences right below that there is a bullet that talks about decline in the need for small Branch Banking this happened we know with the Bank of America down the street this is
sort of the next in line here um again I think the board can find clear distinction with this particular site that it relates to a distinct site and not the zone as a whole in your B BD Zone District um additionally your master
plan under 4-16 we'll get that to that next talks about updating your signed ordinances uh we were here back in 2023 early 2023 for the Taco Bell um after the Taco Bell was approved we uh
see your master plan was changed at the end of 2023 and made recommendations for updating your sign standards to reflect current industry Trends and and market demand again all in the interest of promoting brand familiarity meeting
customer expectations so both of these you have good strong backup in your master plan for what the applicant is proposing here uh talking about the actual use itself we're going to run through the positives and the negatives again this is a specific piece of
property we've got one tax lot block 10515 Lot Number Four it's about 31,44 Square ft what's important is the applicant is asking the board to move on a drive-thru a drive-thru that is already physically
there so this is an integration this is not a new build which again I think is a distinct driver of why this use variance makes sense and why the site is particularly suited for the use speaking about the particular site your own 20
2003 uh resolution of approval for this site and I'm quoting here call this site an important and highly visible piece of property to the streetscape of the valley Corridor and one of the main entrances to the Township from areas to
the South unquote I just want for point of clarification I think you said 2023 is that 2003 the resolution was 2003 the master plan was 2023 what you were just reading was that from 200 that's
2003 key to that 2003 resolution of approval was the look and the style of the building at this visually prominent Corner in your community this application has spot on with that goal by keeping that building there uh I think you all well know that
your b d zone is very permissive there's a wide variety of uses and forms that could go here every flavor of retail you could have restaurants here this is a restaurant use outdoor dining and entertainment this is an Adaptive reuse
application which is appealing from a planning standpoint because it represents hold the mic a little closer I want to make sure get because it represents efficient use of land um again this is adaptive reuse of a building and not only of a building but
a site as well it is a retrofit for again a a popular name brand and another thing that's nice about this application is that it does offer a food choice for the consumer public not everybody wants a Taco Bell not everyone wants a Burger
King this is an an alternate food choice and interestingly we often see Taco Bell and Wendy's co-branded together in a single building so the fact that one is close to the other I think is a positive not a negative so along with the two
categories of relief that the applicant is seeking we're dealing with two zones here as well you've got the BD downtown Valley commercial District uh which is a zone that again permits a wide variety of uses as I just said and then you have
this overlay the pvo overlay which permits the exact same uses with a higher allowance for lot coverage and key to the pvo Zone district is the fact that that increase in lot coverage is to
allow existing properties in the overlay quote to continue in their in their current configuration to continue in their current configuration which again is what the applicant is doing here so keeping what's there is spoton with the
pvo Zone intent to continue properties that are existing in their current configuration with respect to the D1 use relief I find that all four parts of the medich test are met here again it's not the restaurant component but it's the
drive-thru component that's already there I think it's been well vetted by this board how this site will flow function and operate safely efficiently and comfortably for the people who will use that drive-thru first part of the test site
suitability the site is particularly suited for the use by virtue of its condition and by virtue of its context condition-wise again the site is already developed and this project is simply a retrofit of what's already there contextually the site is in a
non-residential area and the use is compatible with its non-residential surroundings special reasons we move off the land and we move to the land use law and those purposes of zoning at the beginning the project as a whole is going to advance multiple purposes of
the land use law at njsa 40 col 55 d-2 first and foremost sort of the catchall purpose a the promotion of the general welfare because this project will retain and repurpose a desirable vision building at a quote again
visually prominent corner and gateway to the community end quote purpose G the project is going to provide for the promote the planning goal to provide for a variety of uses in appropriate locations because it provides a service
use along a service corridor and it offers consumers F food choices again the Taco Bell and the Burger King are similar land uses with the drive-thru amenity that will get to the public benefits of the drive-thru
shortly purpose ey obviously I think the building speaks for itself it's a a beautiful building kudos to the community and the board uh that originally approved that building and it has certainly stood the test of time as a as a positive in terms of the character of your community this project
will promote a desirable visual environment which is purpose I under the land use law because it will retain that colonial style building that was a key reason for the original PNC approval in the first place next we look at purpose M the
planning goal to promote for efficient use of land as I said before because this entails adaptive reuse of an existing building and a site which is as efficient as it gets from a land use perspective and certainly has less impacts on the
area than if this building were knocked down and we were starting from ground up new construction going back to purpose a there are other uh elements there that Advance the public good including the provision of of a viable land use of a
vacant commercial space the likelihood of this space ever being reused as a bank is small um according to FDIC due to the popularity of online banking in for every new bank branch that opens for
close and that's echoed in your master plan as well as a recognized uh emerging Trend again purpose a is Advanced specifically with respect to the drive through amenity which is really the only reason for the relief the ReUse of
what's there it will benefit the public with convenience with safety with efficiency beneficiaries certainly include Mobility challenged persons elderly persons handicapp persons those who've undergone recent surgery parents
with children parents with pets or people with pets in the car um and outside of those people and and for all people the use provides weather protection on whether it's rainy days icy days snowy days very hot days uh not
having to get out of the car leaving a pet in the car waking a sleeping baby are all common sense everyday positives of why this land use gained currency of 30% more traffic during covid and has certainly held that that
sense on the flip side of that we look at the public impacts I think that's what the board has well vetted this evening through your professionals and and the applicants professionals as well um at this hour as we now stand based on all testimony the ReUse of the drive-thru can be granted without any
substantially adverse impacts as I said before I'll say it again this the site will flow function and operate safely and efficiently John those conditions that we talked about the signage prohibiting the articulated vehicles
does that impact the clearance bar yes all all good conditions and again the beauty of the use variance mechanism is that it's an interactive process the board makes suggestions the applicant responds uh that has happened positively
here um and the board again can impose reason restrictions or conditions on the use which is another nice benefit of the use variance mechanism uh therefore there are no potential public impacts visual or functional that remain
unaddressed or unresolved and therefore use relief can be granted at this location without any substantial detriment to the public obviously we look at the Zone plan as well and I talked about those references in your master plan importantly the degree of
departure from The Zone plan is not substantial here the restaurant could go the Taco Bell without the use of that drive-thru forcing this applicant not to use the drive-thru to me defeats any positive planning purpose or S serves any uh planning purpose I think again
there's an element of impracticability to that the project will promote the intent of the Zone plan for a viable and stable commercial base filling a vacant space is a good thing from a planning standpoint the project will reverse the ongoing stagnation which is currently
inconsistent with your Zone intent and again the food use here is more viable than a bank use based on those FDIC statistics I gave you which are also reflected in your master plan and as I said before in terms of
Zone intent the purpose of the overlay is to allow properties to continue in their current configuration therefore use relief can be granted without substantial impairment to the Zone plan and ordinance therefore I believe the use variance aspect of this application
is met uh next we have a bucket of signage relief which I will justify under the flexible C balancing test as a better zoning alternative for this property where the benefits of the application as a whole would substantially outweigh the detriments in
terms of the overall benefits we're not going to go through those use proofs again but I think they carry down the signage is somewhat subsumed within the nature of the use it is positive retention and reuse of an attractive building the sign package is
going to promote clear and safe identification of the site from multiple Vantage points you have the exhibits that were given to you uh presented earlier that shows the the beautiful renderings and how these the sign package is tasteful it's not gy it's not
over branding and nicely integrates within the S within the confines of the site so the relief that that the applicant is asking the board to move with respect to signage we're going to start with the building signs the applicant is asking the board to move on Five building signs where one is the
maximum that's allowed I'm going to go back to Taco Bell not to handcuff the board but because it's out there it's fresh and you do have some good comparables there so you can get a sense of the proportion of what the applicant's proposing here compared to
that that Taco Bell bear in mind five wall signs here on the building where one is allowed PM PNC had three signs the applicant is essentially rebranding and taking the PNC and putting in the the word Mark Wendy's or the Wendy's
logo The Cameo if you will at those three locations so sort of a replacement in kind three for three the two extra signs we've got a fourth sign that is a very small 2.6 squ ft sign that reads delivery pickup it's more of a
demarcation than advertising per se there's no Wendy's associated with it logo or otherwise very similar to what we saw over at Taco Bell where we have about the same size sign that was a greeting at the entry to the doorway
that actually had the word enter enter on it and that was counted as a sign in that application uh the fifth sign is a word graphic on the side of the wall it says Made fresh to order uh reinforces the brand tagline
it's not a box sign it's Channel letters up against the side of the sign in fact that's around 134 square feet that one John it isn't we'll go back to A1 it's the letters that are on the drive
through side uh that again read made fresh to order and that sort of sort of reinforces the the tagline of of Wendy's the area of the building signs are 95 F feet in aggregate where 25 would be the maximum that's allowed you
don't see all four sides or of the building at the same time so obviously they're not going to all come at you that 95 square feet as once at once as a frame of reference the word Mark is 29.6 square ft again I'm only giving
these to the board as comparisons the Taco Bell sign the word Taco Bell on the building was 27.4 we're at 29.16% point4 over there this is a bigger building this is over 3,000 square ft that building was about 2400
Square ft so we've got good proportionality in terms of the word Mark then the two logos Taco was at 13.85 slightly larger here at 21.9 with the cameos um as I said before you had
the taco enter sign which was at 2.5 Square fet uh the sign here that reads that announces the delivery location delivery pickup is 2.62 square ft and then finally
the the the word the tagline sign is 18.480 for the words made fresh to order in total that's where you get the 94 Square ft not all visible from the same same s so the applicant has done a good job I think of breaking up the sign
package and nicely integrating it into the architecture did you mention the orange whatever that orange color sign is I'm going to do that now Mr chairman and I have that those Dimensions here again we've got good compatibility with what we see
on wind on Taco Bell so the Taco Bell sign measures 5' 4 in in horizont width and 5 ft top to bottom this sign is 4T across Taco Bell was 5T 4 in across and actually Rises up
6 feet so this is a 24 squ foot sign whereas Taco Bell was a 16 squ foot sign so again you have some good proportionality there this is less wide than the than the Taco Bell sign but comparable and because we have more than
25 Square ft of wall signage and a front that is I think exceeds 100 square ft a a ground sign is not actually permitted at this location so relief related to both the ground sign and the area of the
sign as well I think we have similar characteristics over at at Taco Bell but I don't know if that relief was picked up as as part of Taco Bell either way the ground sign is similar in mass and scale and appearance as the the Taco Bell sign I'm sorry on the area the
ground sign did you say yeah how how Taco Bell was 16 and you're 24 that's correct we're 6 feet up 4 feet across I got you're 24 but I thought you said Taco Bell was 54 by5 that's more than
16 uh 25 what it is is there was a twoot base oh so I don't think you count the base as part of your your package I was reading the resolution uh so it was it's actually that brings it down closer to 3x5 and yes report has stuff in there about that and
the monument size as well yeah and the monument sign actually for Taco Bell wound up being 10 square feet it was a little over it was 5 by two okay okay um those signs you proposed are internally
lit they are they are internally lit Mr chairman again I'm just going back to the the master plan that talks about recommendation to update the sign ordinances I'll certainly say the reason why the applicant is asking the board to move on that is that this is their the typical
sign package this is not a typical prototypical Wendy's building I think that's suffice it to say so they're looking for the sign package to sort of reinforce the brand customer expectations brand familiarity um that
said I think this is an interactive process we can certainly talk if that's a if that's a problem with the board I think we have an applicant that is is ready willing able to listen for sure I I know uh we've been trying to get away from internally lit signs or things that
are that are not that don't look as as classic as a sign that has external Lighting on it that looks a little more in tune with that building um you know unfortunately we're coming upon 11 I don't want to extend anymore so I think
we're going to have to discuss your sign issue a little at the next meeting to go into it a little bit more further I don't want to start with questions now it's a it I don't you know because we won't be able to finish so I threw a lot at you in I realize that and appreciate
that but I think we're going to have to delve into it and I would urge the applicant to be a more flexible with the signs only because um you know we we we don't like the back pedal on those things I understand updating but
updating means I don't think we had the quantity and the type yeah conforming yeah yeah just just to just you know let's let's look at the signs and take that whole thing that's going to take a while to talk about so much as you spoke
a lot about Taco Bell and its signage but I don't don't believe that that signage is backlit no it isn't so very and I I probably should have said that but that's true there are no internally illuminated signs over there I don't know if they I'm trying to remember if they started as they did they wanted the
power L yeah I remember that and also remember with with Taco Bell there's artwork on the building they they wanted the murals and there was a bell embedded in the murals yes get it they get the
murals no nope they did they did not we'll remove our mural there is no M we don't yeah we the one that's not there so the the taco building is further away from the road correct yeah it is further set back correct and the signs are
smaller than these so these are bigger signs and it's closer to the road factually that that is a TR that's a smaller building too so we're talking about proportionality and how these signs I'll let the bigger building bigger signs closer to the road that's
what you guys are proposing factually yes but also good positive integration with the building if these signs start to get smaller we may lose that proportionality the size I I think size is to me isn't as important as the type of sign it is concerns about the
internal illumination I heard is big and size quantity there any other issue let me put it this way if it's a if it's a nicely done sign externally lit size is secondary to to style but it can't be
huge I mean you know let me put it that way I think all are here um can I suggest something actually Mr chair that the applicant look at conditions in the Wendy's uh resolution sorry T approval because and the Burger King one because
that specifically there were some uh conditions related to the lighting and there were conditions related to the ground sign right that they might be app that are applicable they are applicable yeah Taco Bell get those
resolutions yeah Taco Bell was 2023 Rick I Burger King was a long time ago yeah but it's similar in in their in what was required try to yeah that is
go yeah and also if they could physically eliminate that wall and made fresh we're not able to no no okay we're to reserve it's a little complicated the bypass there's some structural elements
okay saying it very simply understand structural elements in there get the concern to sharpen our Pils wherever we can if that was taken off in the roof put down okay I understand fa that would
eliminate the bypass that would eliminate the fact that we may be able to even get a firet truck on that side of the building if that was eliminated we we certainly heard the concern go back to see whatever we could do if it's marginal okay even if it's marginal
understand we sign talking yeah can can we come up with another date is it is it two weeks open uh yes uh the 18th okay with no more no no need to be noticed they can we carry to I I
have something on the agent I'll try to move it tomorrow but carry to the date certain and then if I have a problem I'll move it to April what's the next one after that April 1 April no full no can I ask the board about the mersh
because yeah well that's what you won't be on not he will not be on how about everybody else for the either the next meeting or the first is anybody not able to make it we have one person who you will not be here on the first on the first no I I realize things come up in
people's lives yeah and and one applic one uh uh person who was not here tonight was Ill so I'm I'm not sure about his schedule but U the the missing member was just ill tonight um he could watch the recording and yeah he he will watch the recording
I'm just hoping he can make next meeting the meeting after that would be the 15th I canair m not easy witness we not sure he's going to be back can we open it up to the public for questioning of him I don't know if is who you you you can't
be back I have something on the 18th I can try to move it tomorrow on the first on the oh well if we pick April 15th is that open well well I mean the next meeting in April what do that I would say move it to the 18th Mr chairman I'll
do what I can and so move it to the 18th and you will try to I'll do what I can yeah if I'm not here that night is there any questions well we've gone beyond the the we're done switching out we're done yes you have to have them
back whether it's the 18th of the 1st we got to get them back yeah all right uh here a motion to adjourn do we do we have a date certain we're going March 18th we're carrying this matter without further notice to March 18 7:30 p.m. the same location the
municipal building okay and Sir go check with Miss Coons there a chance we may bump it another two weeks but depending on his schedule Mr either go with six members or well I'm sure the other member will
be available he's going have to watch yeah he will he will we'll we'll tie him down and make him the all right Jo he motion to adjourn thank you for