##VIDEO ID:kANfkxR7tSY## okay ready I would like to call to order the zoning Board of adjustment regular meeting for June 18th 7:35 call to order and statement of compliance adequate notice of this hearing uh meeting has been provided by posting a copy of the public meeting hearing on the municipal Bon board and website by sending copy to the echos Sentinel and curon news newspapers and by filing a copy with the municipal clerk standard board procedures any hearing conducted by the board is a quasi judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and the Corum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times meeting cut off announcement is made that is a matter of public as a matter of procedure is the intention of the zoning Board of adjustment not to continue any matter past 10:30 p.m. at any regular or special meeting of the board unless a motion is passed by the members then present to extend the meeting to a later specified cutoff time electronic devices all un attendant are asked to mute cell phones or any electronic devices as to not inter as to not interrupt the proceedings Pledge of Allegiance Jessica would you leave us Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all roll call yes Mr aronia here miss Brennan here Mr gianakas is excused SL recused tonight Mr Flatley here Mr Rosenberg is excused this evening Mr Watts here miss Collins here VI um Vice chairman Groff here and chairman G is also recused and excused for this matter we have a quum okay meeting minutes uh has everybody had a chance to read the meeting minutes actually look at the resolutions we have meeting minutes for this meeting we do have meeting minutes y May 21st 2024 don't know May 21th make I don't have mine here but I have may seven minutes in front of me and and uh and April 16 and May 7 continued those have all been approved okay they all my they on my the email that I sent out for the invite has minutes on these are onk on the desk here I have they were left here I didn't bring them with me memorialization June 4 on both you're looking at resolutions not oh sorry thank you we have the minutes I don't have the minutes in front of me yes I saw these at home does anybody have any comments or Corrections seeing none uh can I get somebody to uh give me a motion to approve the minutes right eligible minut thank you okay Mr wat in second in second second all in favor okay all in favor say I I I I thank you thank you thank you okay next our resolutions uh and Mr acting chair I'll just like to let you know that um five resolutions are listed this evening on the agenda but we will only be memorializing two yes that being uh con uh application number 2401 Z and GSD Estates LLC application number 244 Z the others were not ready for this evening to be memorialized okay uh has anybody had a chance to read these yes yes I have okay any corrections or comments my only correction would be that because these were prepared for originally the June 4th meetings at the top uh under the memorial memorialization uh statement up there we just have to revise that to today's date but other than that I have no comments because I I wrote so one of otherwise I better I read it a little more clearly then okay any other comments questions okay can I get a remote to a motion to approve the resolution well let's start with con oh we can't do them together no separately for con no the eligible uh members are Vice chairman Gman gof sorry uh Mr ronio Miss Brennan and Mr Watts so Mo second second I'll second it okay thank you okay all in no I have to do roll call roll call yep Miss Brenan yes Mr ronio yes Mr Watts yes Vice chair M grot yes motion carries okay now for the GSD Estates application number 2404 Z same people and same comment just got to change the memorialization date on the first page okay Jerry's moved it can I get a second we have a second Mr R yes M Brennon yes Mr Watts yes Vice chairman gof yes motion carries [Applause] okay and tonight we'll be looking at application uh site plan and use variants carried from 42 416 5764 we're here tonight block 12302 lot 11 Zone M 1893 Long Hill Road application number 24- 06z D drron LLC applicant proposes to add an addition on the existing building and a new 32 by 40 foot full Barn behind the existing building Mr Vice chairman I'll call you Mr chairman for tonight please filling the um I'll just point out for the record U this matter have been carried multiple times the board um this was initially scheduled before the board on April 2nd 2024 um the applicant had provided sufficient notice for that hearing date however as I mentioned board wasn't aable to hear the case that time so it was carried by voice and then Public Announcement several times subsequently to April 16th May 7th June 4th and now to this evening and uh I'll just make the quick statement because the applicant's notice was sufficient as of April 2nd 2024 and the board duly carried the matter the board would still have jurisdiction to hear and decide this case so jurisdiction is proper we are clear to proceed thank you my pleasure [Music] okay I guess uh Mr zi if you'd like to get it started and we'll start swearing people in when after you do your introduction working microphone we're starting off well don't chinx it knock on okay yeah good evening for the record Frederick zelli post poock on behalf of the applicant this evening as indicated this is for 1893 Long Hill Road Block 12302 lot 11 uh in your Millington Village District uh the applicant wishes to add a 1 and a half story addition as well as rear and side additions to the existing commercial retail building uh those of you who've been in the town which I assume is uh many of you for some time it was a pizzeria one Upon a Time most recently it was an ice cream parar uh tiny little building to the right hand side of Millington fire department uh we're looking to create a second and third floor uh two-story apartment create additional commercial office space on the first floor and create a garage at the basement level there's also storage already in the basement level the applicant also wishes to construct a 32x 40 pole bar behind the existing building the applicant proposes to formalize and pave the driveway and parking areas and to professionally landscape the property which happens to be his business so we know he'll do it uh which will result in a net decrease in impervious coverage on the property from 82.6 uh to 72.2 um so we're still above the 60 that's allowed but it's an increase or improvement over what's there now uh applicants principal Ron saaks to my left intends to personally reside in the proposed Department uh and to use the newly created office space and the pole barn for his professional landscaping business um the pole barn itself would be used for parking of vehicles as well as for storage of supplies materials and Equipment uh in order to keep the site nice and clean and tidy um the retail space would become a floor currently intended to be utilized by Mr Sax an project requires decent number of variances uh but they all kind of fall together you still see we do need a D6 variance uh for height uh we are looking at 43.3 FT from the lowest area which is behind the building at the basement level where 35 is permitted uh we need a C2 bulk variance for three and a half stories where two stories are permitted unless that's deemed to be sub assumed by the D6 need a bulk for an apartment in excess of 1,000 squ ft uh 22 ft is proposed measured from the outer walls as Pere ordinance we need a uh variance for sidey yard setback for the accessory structure 2.7 where 10 is required rear setback again for the accessory structure 2.5 where 10 is required uh and for height and this is a Dom Minimus but it's for height of the accessory structure we're at 22.4 ft the ordinance only allows 22 even uh in this Zone uh finally impervious coverage as I indicated 60 is permitted uh we are currently at 82.6 and we're proposing to bring it down to 72.2 uh the use issue um otherwise apartments are permitted in this Zone as long as they're on the Second Story We comply with that again as I mentioned before what we don't comply with uh is the uh size of the apartment they're limited to a th000 and we're at uh over 2,000 so I have three Witnesses this evening first is Ron saak the applicant principal second is Cory Fernandez our architect uh the third will be Bill Hollows our engineer he is presently in Summit uh he believes he will be here uh later uh what I suggested with Miss Coons uh subject to the board's approval of course is for us to go forward with our first two witnesses if uh Mr holl is not here yet we would defer to the next applicant hopefully uh then still have some time at the end to be able to finish up afterward so that is our game plan if there's any questions for me the only issue is I'm not staying for the second so you have to call me to come back to vote possibly yeah we'll have to let's look at the timing of everything when it if we get to that point hopefully we hope to get to the second one but if this drags out cross the verion we come to right exactly can actually I asked one question Mr Z sorry I had noted in my letter that you also needed a D5 because you're slightly above the maximum permitted density um and I don't know you didn't mention that in the variances you're seeking I didn't mention that and if we do obviously we will seek that as well okay [Music] thanks questions okay then I'd like to start with having Mr saaks and Mr Fernandez both sworn in if we can sure abely as well as our board professionals as always everybody knows the drills Mr Fernandez you oh no you're sitting you're fine all right everybody can sit all good all right do all of you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth so help you got I do great and Mr zel you know I like to ask at the beginning do you have any exhibits you'll be presenting want to Mark those ahead of time or uh Mr Hollows is going to be marking two uh colorized sheets already been submitted but he's just colorized all right yeah we we'll yeah we again cross that bridge when we come to correct as far as I know everything else has been submitted ahead of time that Mr saaks would you please just State your full name and mailing address for the record uh Ron saxs 15 wwor Drive Berkeley Heights New Jersey and what is your relationship to the applicant Dron Ron LLC owner okay and Dron Ron is it does it just own this property or is it a functioning business in some other sense it just owns the property okay and what do you do for a living I'm a landscape designer uh we've been in business since 2008 we do h landscape design build could you please use the other mic cuz I don't think we're picking you up anymore is it not picking up say that again just hold it yeah for the record my name's Ron saxs I own a Land hold on you're that not working apparently not now it's moved to this table the mic doesn't want to work working I could hear just don't press the button on it yeah just be close to it my name is Ron saxs I own a landscape design build company um what else did I do just what does your company do what's the name you're started ston waterer properties um we do higher end landscape design build okay and in the local area where do you do your work um anywhere from Basking Ridge to Summit and just a an initial question and we'll get to the other building as well uh where are you currently housing your business around the corner at uh Barrett Roofing I've been renting there I think for like 10 12 years and you already own the current property is that correct yes I bought it last March okay and we're going to have Mr Fernandez and Mr Hollows give us the technical details of both the property the site plan and the buildings but just in your words tell the board what it is you want to do with this property trying to turn the ugly ducking duckling into the best looking one on the street um I really like that whole i' I've been driving past this like neighborhood because I you know I rent down the down the street um and I really want to live there so that's why I know it's a little bit more but I want to have a master bedroom and in case I have kids like have two uh extra bedrooms downstairs um I like to keep things neat and orderly that's why I want to do the uh the barn in the back um where I rent right now is basically the same square footage and I fit everything in there um and then also open obviously the florist and then have my Design Center in the back where customers come can come in instead of me going to their house all the time so and other than a meeting like that um where a customers going to drive in who else would be coming to the site with a vehicle and need parking um just my brother most likely and like one or two guys and when your employees are there uh if you start first thing in the morning are you taking trucks out of the barn something like that is that how your day works yeah we're not on site for very long we're there for like maybe 5 10 minutes in and out um so you know employees come in they most likely go into the garage where trucks are coming out and just park right there inside the garage so it's swapping out one vehicle for another we don't have to worry about parking for those particular vehicles exactly our business besides the floors it's most like offsite and the only thing where more customers coming is like for design appointments or you know for the floors but I think the floors is going to be more delivery and you're going to be living there personally yes all right with anyone else hopefully my girlfriend yeah maybe yeah uh so that would be two vehicles yes and then they would be in the garage okay all right I'm going to show you some photographs that were submitted to the board I'll represent that I took them sometime shortly before the filing of the application I just want you to go one by one in the order that they're stapled and confirm with the board please that they accurately portray what the property looks like and then just tell us what's shown in the each picture the existing building and the gravel parking lot okay and then just and in the back uh I see a pole barn back there can you tell the board whose that is yeah that's the fire department's uh pole barn ours is actually going to look just like that if allowed just just go through each picture and just tell what's shown same thing this is showing the uh the downward slope to the back gravel parking lot and uh the firehouse and the barn again basically just the back of the building and then we're proposing coming out I believe 20 ft off that so that's basically where the garage was be where the Jeep is okay this looks to be like the back corner of the uh property just looking to the back of the building and the large brick building next to it is the firehouse Firehouse okay basically the same angle just further back in the property behind us and just while we're looking at this Photograph and just to be clear everybody's on the same one the space further back and kind of between where I'm standing as a photographer and the black truck uh is that property owned by you no okay who owns that uh cars Plumbing I think that's like a paper Road or something and a certain section of it is owned by the firehouse I think it's like a flag lot what they call it and clars is also the property next to you on the opposite side from the firehouse yes that's correct so between their two lots is basically an L down and behind you fair to say yes Yep this is another view of from that like paper Street or whatever they call it and the firehouse where they practice com in the roofs and stuff and my building okay and the uh street that you're referring to as paper it is actually gravel that goes to where um I don't know the name of street but it's the street in front of the firehouse so well it comes off a crescent yeah but is what you're seeing in the bottom of this picture goes between lot we just talked about and the pole barn of the fire department yes does that go anywhere or just into the back lots of cars and those properties yeah it goes behind cars and then there's like a driveway that goes up between our two buildings that goes to Long Hill Road but that doesn't lead into a residential section or anything like that okay that's just the side of my building um and this is the the driveway for cars for their back area I'm sorry guys what picture are you guys looking at did you just okay just making sure we're on the same page thank you you said this is the driveway for your building no not mine for CS they have like a back entrance to get to the back of their property how would the vehicles come to to the back of your building uh facing the building to the left oh okay I see thank you okay and then the last photo um doesn't really exist yet right no okay what does that show us that shows my architect's awesome work over there um but yeah it just say the brick facade basically that portion would be the Florest um behind it would be in my office and then I don't know if you have the plans up there but then it's two uh two bedrooms um living room kitchen and then there's just a staircase that goes up to like a bedroom loft is that the master bedroom up on the so it's three and a half stories that's up in the half story is that after Mr I'm sorry to interrupt it would be one apartment unit yes okay yep one twostory apartment Mr Fernandez obviously will give us the details about that just out of the way thank and just again some clarification on what you intend to use the pole bar for in the back yeah basically it's just going to be storage for my trucks and like snowplows and stuff like that um like I said I'm going to live there so I don't want to kind of like see a mess um so everything's going to be inside the garage and historically since you've been in town how do you store your stuff now is it indoors or Outdoors it's the only thing that's Outdoors are trucks well my like uh you know my tools construction tools and so plows they're either in a hoop house or a shipping container and your trucks if you were to move to this site where would they be parked overnight in the garage and like uh there might be like one truck that'll be outside cuz I only have three Bays I had to make it smaller to get the garage smaller so like my skid steers and stuff like that would be in one Bay and then the two other Bays would be a box truck and a dump truck inside and the truck outside would be most likely what the truck that might be outside would be what dump truck box truck dump truck okay MH all right and then your car and your girlfriend's car would be in the garage underneath the house all right uh customers coming to the florist where would they be parking well uh we dealt with the county with the parking stuff so there's a parking spot they had us changed we have one parallel spot in the front and I believe three or four down the side down going down the side of the driveway yes okay and then is there also one or two going to be in the back yeah um right now I think your drawing says one but there might be uh between the the house garage or the building garage and the post beam garage uh there's one spot but we could put two spots there to add an ex spot if needed Mr Hollow is going to discuss that more in detail in his testimony [Applause] right at this moment I have nothing further for Mr Sax okay any questions from the board Jerry uh first question um so and this might be for your architect or something later on but it's you your application is for uh a three-story building um I believe we permit two not two and a half is that right because it was mentioned two but the zone is two and this is three and a half three and a half okay so there's a c variance for that stories are SE variance correct I I I saw that thank you um and and or and or a height variance however we that's decided you really have both uh the board could consider the C to be subsumed that's entirely we can get to that later but it's both it's both 43 feet and three stories which exceeds both our height and our storage it is correct so my question is what's on that third floor that you need to create a third floor that exceeds the height variance what what use do you need there um it's my bed it would be in my bedroom your bedroom you mentioned you have two other bedrooms on yeah for for like for future use yeah for future use but you don't need it now uh my girlfriend actually has a child yeah okay but you need two bedrooms now then yes yeah cuz I'd like to have a kid yeah so I plan on staying there a while yeah I'm just I'm just asking why we're doing that because it's you know to me it's a it's a high high test to to meet the height variance and the story variance when it's not you know it's it's there needs I need to see exactly why that why that needs to be done and can that be done with two and a half stories one thing you should need to bear in mind with this particular property because of the slope SL I understand that I saw that we're looking at from the street we're two and a y I saw it uh and there's you know realistically there's really nobody behind us certainly not directly behind us we have this vacant lot then we have the gravel Street and we have the pole bar for the fire department so takes a while before you get to we say this all the time we're not a precedent setting board but everybody will say there's three stories over there and I want three stories there's 43 ft there and I want it that's that's the reason why I asked the question and and you know I I've said since the beginning since Cory did this uh this shot this is our case right here this tells you what's going to happen to the center of Millington by this and we're going from a streetcape now where we have this building that makes no sense in between the firehouse and cars building um versus that which in our opinion anyway just just makes the streetcape uh and that's important from a planning perspective especially when and we'll get into this later but the case law Grasso uh speaking of a D6 says that what you want to look at is what the height does to the streetcape the reason for the variance uh the reason for a D6 in the first place is because once you start getting more than 10 % above what's permitted now in certain circumstances you can be affecting your Skyline and that's more of a use concept than simple uh mathematical height so that's why the D6 exists and this application is kind of the poster child for that analysis you know how do we look at this does this offend your streetcape and no in this particular case it's more consistent than the building that's there now so we're actually improving it to that point will you have somebody to testify what the height Street streetcape wise is compared to the Firehouse next door uh I will ask both of our professionals and the top of my head I don't know if they have those measurements but we will find out and then um my next question is thank you for that my next question is about the uh the number of uh construction vehicles you said I I know I heard one dumb truck What's the total number of uh non-passenger Vehicles three three yep and how about uh like excavation equipment or yeah I mentioned that that would be in the garage Bay that's why we don't have one truck outside What's the total number of there that would be stored there of trucks orip equipment uh two skid steers and an escavator so three of those any like chippers or stump grinders not that kind of landscape or not okay um also most of the time those like my skider has been on the site and escavator for 6 months so it's not like we don't store we don't store a lot stuff there yeah okay um do do you have that was my next question do you have another yard available to you for similar storage well I'm paying for that now I'm trying that's why I kind of got this are you going to continue to do that or is are you going to try to that's the whole reason I'm doing this okay you're going to try to get rid of that and not do that anymore okay and then um you mentioned also that there's a florist that may be uh be become a tenant of yours for the retail space yeah I already have an L something one of the things that said your ant maybe yeah yeah um she's she's been in Flores for years okay um and you also mentioned that there might be delivery uh delivery service with the Florest yeah like a mini like a little minivan one yeah probably one vehicle yeah not Park overnight sorry where would that be parked overnight um really can be anywhere in the back or yeah could and also too I did measure uh the buildings on the street the bank firehouse and the uh C Bela cards next to me too and what that you did what did you come up with the Bang's like 50 feet you know because it's like 40 feet to the top and then it's got another 10 foot on top um and the firehouse I think Cory has those those exact numbers I was out there with the laser Po and you measured from the front of your building or from the rear of your building I think you measure from my height is from the back or the front so by ordinance we measure we have to measure our height from the back so that's from the lowest point which on your property is walk up or the drive out basement because he said he measured that okay thank you that's all I have thanks J I'm this was on the day when I got here yes I believe it was did we enter this that is that was submitted was it that's why you have it okay that's great um our attorney is looking I look for my cop so I'll wait to comment till it's no no you can go I'll catch yeah you're right looking at this proposed Street skate uh show it to the board Jerry I see that okay this one it's okay you have it all right um how much oh this will probably be a question better better said later never mind I'll save it I'll save it for Mr Fernandez probably get answer that one exactly you know I I'm not sure I got that picture de would you can you confir we got we got this more than 10 days in advance of tonight okay all right as long as yeah it was it was part of the original pack confirm it we don't need to mark it as an exhibit I don't want to the real here any other questions at this time no we can go to our experts questions no comments good okay anybody from the public have any questions for this witness based on the testimony he provided pam pam you know you know the drill you got if you want to ask a question you got to come up well that's the other reason I'm asking so if Mr Z tell me if you disagree but if you're asking about the height of the building might be a question better resered for the architect who's going to be testifying next most likely okay but let's let her ask she can ask okay all right go ahead I just I just you know would you mind you have a m not yet yes I'm just going to ask very nicely if you could just limit what you're going to say to questions not statements not testimony because if you do and I have to swear you in but is the board's normal practice they to follow the rules okay I appreciate that thank you all right so could you give us your oens 36 the Crescent to Millington if you're not familiar with the Crescent there's Long Hill there's a firehouse on Long Hill there's my neighbor then there's me so I will see this property you're was that too much information I can that's fine from there if just address your question please yeah questions uh comparing the heights we're going to be provided with comparing the height of the proposed building with to the left the firehouse and that will come from the architect yes yes okay uh the total number of vehicles coming in and out is still not clear to me I heard three trucks plus a delivery truck plus two passenger vehicles we can answer that on on the worst day tell us what vehicles are going to be coming on off of that site uh usually two two work trucks will leave every day around 7:15 and they're coming out of the PO yeah okay and what comes on uh two two drivers two other cars like Passenger cars will come and then what about from the retail business employees there customers you just yeah one one small little minivan would that be operated by the employee or is the employee also yeah I mean yeah who's ever in the fls it's two separate businesses yeah so and then in your experience how many customers would you anticipate the business that's not talk about Valentine time like I said I think it's mostly going to be like mail order you know internet orders and stuff like that so you're not anticipating an active very active storefront business it's most other and your two personal vehicles are going to be in the garage when they're on site yes so is it your testimony that somebody won't be able to just walk in to the florist on any given day and order something they can yeah but like there's I don't I don't expect much traffic in there what's the basis for your testimony on that that you don't expect there to be a lot of walk-in traffic not on that street no I don't I think it's going to be mostly mail order I mean you know internet when flowers on I'm going to get set up with one of those um like internet flower is this based part upon your experience and observing what your aunts been doing over the years yes have you have you actually observed that what yeah I mean I've I've been in like the horiculture I went to school for horiculture I've been in that whole industry for 20 years do you plan on sorry I know it's your time but do you plan on expanding that at all such as Mother's Day plants you know that kind of thing talking about like potting plants potting plants trees anything like that no no not a nursery no you need you have enough land in the back I'm just curious if you're looking at something like that no no not at all if we own the additional lot in the back maybe but yeah so far the cars don't want to part with it but so then with the cars I'm still not clear if you have several employees for your business two employees that will take two trucks out at least yeah two trucks are that's what we we're not a huge company so like basically it's two trucks go every how will the employees get there and they'll they drive they'll Park in your finish her questions those are all good questions that are what I'm asking is I'm having trouble there's employees coming on site with cars there's u a florist with a delivery minivan there's um occupants of the apartment with their vehicles there's work trucks it's not a real big piece of property and I looked at the site plan from March that were posted on the internet and I'm having trouble visualizing where all these vehicles which now are at barretts which has a lot of room from my perspective to the whole place I just rent a certain like I rent four rows yeah I fent four rows so like if you're worried about noise and stuff trust me the fire alarm no noise was not my question uh it was more the in andout the traffic where a car is going to be are they going to be parking in front of the building there's limited spots in front of the building um I I I as far as noise I would imagine you say the trucks leave at 7:15 in the morning I live two doors from the firehouse I'm used to noise tracks are behind my house I know noise is not an issue to me the traffic in and out it's it's currently and there's no sidewalk on my street and there's a lot of people walking now to the brewery and I'm concerned for the foot traffic but well for the landscape business literally we get there in the morning and we leave we're we don't go back it's not like we're not delivering stuff for the you know we're not delivering stone or anything like that we leave and that's it we come back at 5:3 so don't worry about you know the landscape portion in and out in and out and the Florest is just you know the little van that's going to be you know would be delivering flowers so I yeah it's not going to be in and out all day with trucks if that's what you're concerned about okay I wouldn't make any money if the trucks get coming back they got to stay out on jobs okay and also bear in mind is it's hard to imagine but there's actually a total of 10 really parking places on the site we're listing eight but then itself is not included in those culations where are you getting 10 behind the building there's one in the front then you have two uh in the garage itself that's three uh four going down side and then one addition so the garage the picture that I have only shows the front so the garage is is in the bottom of the slope going the back that's two space right there at the lowest part of the slope that's where their personal vehicles will be park in the garage and then they'll be parking in front of the garage also like if you have guests where are they going to park I think we have like 10 spots total are you talking about like after hours yeah if you um you're you're going to be parked in the garage but you have three cars coming to visit yeah at the end well not during business hours I think there's three or four down the side of the firehouse there's two parking spaces between the so do you know the driveway going down the hill between theous and your property it's about like excuse me at this point we're it's getting it is into testimony so we're going to swear you got um then I appreciate that um I just oh I need you to raise your right hand because you made statements and they have to be I have to swear you in order for the board to consider anything you said you swear or affirm that the testimony you provided and that you may provide in the future will be the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth I do great thank you very much I I think that's all the questions I have I don't have any pictures and are there any provided of the Paul Barn there plans have been submitted and Comm we'll be discussing that as well and they'll be available online with the application look like he has pictures already oh because I went on today and I just see the site application from March and the and the documents same you know might be different manufacturer it's essentially what the firehouse P bar looks like it's a little smaller actually than theirs but generally speaking it's the same exact three garage doors steel okay and just a reminder of the um the Millington Bank when that was built and they got variances for height and size and to the street and if you speak to and I know this is just comment but it's way out of proportion for downtown Millington it always has been it always will be let's not make the same mistake thank you Mr Z can I throw out a potential condition of approval um to maybe get ahead of some of the traffic concerns that might be related Mr saaks mentioned that his employees would be coming to the site taking the trucks leaving offsite would you guys stipulate to having your employees Park in the pole barn instead of you know in the other spots sound acceptable okay well I mean let's pause right because there could be a scenario where that's not possible Right like how how can you require that the employ Park in the pole bar as a condition of approval of this what if there's something that makes it an impossibility to park in the pole barn what if a tree falls on the pole bar I'm I'm just saying let think about that before we I figured just it could be phrased to the extent become Ava right not so when when the commercial vehicles removed they'll be placed by the right and that is the intention that was right I I didn't hear that he they were going to park in there I just but thank you for clarifying okay I have a question um I believe that you said that you were planning on you know pretty well that you are going to be using probably eight spaces in a day but you're cleared for 10 I believe was what you had said so we're showing eight on the plan okay but we did not include any of the space in the PO I understand okay and then my next question was going to be your aunt has the Flores business which you think is going to be you pretty well oiled uh uh business because this is something that she's been doing for a while and she's going to be going into that space does your aunt have any employees that come in to that business to Aid and assist her during the day or is she just like she's just on her own yeah I mean obviously I mean all I have right now is the L the LLC I mean it's going to take a little while to grow the business you know what I mean so it's probably going to be like either me or my brother uh doing deliveries until it like you know we make some money to do it okay I can't bring in too many people right away I understand that okay all right uh that being said I think we can hear from the architect at this time correcte no one else from the public anyone else from the public no okay close to the public good evening I'm just going to set up the uh plans real fast oh there the big picture view or something okay that can you can you move it a little to the right and turn it a little bit in case anybody from the public would like to see that we need to see it too so just slightly can slightly struggling over there and there we go perfect see Randy yeah and you do have that your in your packet also yeah uh Mr Fernandez would you please give us uh your full name and business address Cory Fernandez 50 Division Street Somerville New Jersey Jersey and would you please give us the benefit of your professional and educational background sure so um my license is a good standing here in New Jersey also in New York and South Carolina um I received my bachelor of architecture here in New Jersey at NJIT I provideed testimony nearby townships uh Union burnard Hillsboro Somerville um and uh um I've been operating my business since 2016 okay we deem you an expert thank you you're qualified and you've designed the uh residential and commercial mix building is that correct correct okay would you please describe first uh what we have presently not only the building that's there on our property now but the surrounding buildings sure uh so the existing building is a one-story masonry structure um on large you know compared to the building lot uh which has a steep slope going down towards the back uh neighboring if you're looking at the building uh from the street neighboring on the left is the existing uh militant Firehouse neighboring on the right is a uh 2 and 1 half story uh retail structure um and then uh across the street down the road a little bit is the bank I believe yeah and to your knowledge does the uh retail structure to the right also have Apartments residential use above I've never been in there but there's air conditioning units all right it looks to be residential when you look at it yes all right and take us through what what you've designed uh for this property sure so um my client Ron came to me with the program which is uh he's looking to move his family uh or his growing family into uh this building where he wants to operate his business out of uh landscaping business and then uh also potential for a Florida shop so um I'll go through the plans here so when we're looking at this 3D rendering and this is a photo montage so it it takes um my 3D proposal and it montages it onto existing streetscape in proportion to what's uh already existing um so this first floor FL is what's existing right now the brick on the front uh would remain as is and currently it has a low sloping roof that goes back towards uh the rear yard so the proposal here is to um uh flatten out that first floor ceiling so we can build on top of it this would be the second story if you're considering from the front third story for considering it from the back so the Second Story would be uh the garden department more or less it's about 36 ft and the half story which is a steep pitch roof would contain a loft which uh we were able to obtain the the third bedroom which was part of Ron's intended uh intended program uh so I'm going to go through the plans take you through each one of these floors uh so this is the basement uh right now it's used for storage um and utilities down there there is a walk out in the back currently Mr hernandz I'm sorry to cut you off the uh the plans you're looking at these are dated uh August 29th 2023 correct make sure we're looking at the same thing no no revisions on that no revisions all great thank you sir uh it yeah I believe that everything I'm going to be presented here today has already been submitted to the board just confirming appreciate it agreed so uh on the lowest story which is the existing basement story it's a proposed two-car garage this garage is to serve the apartment up above uh so this is for private use uh also as one of the additions is the uh a a Switchback stair which accesses all of the levels of the entire building from the basement level all the way up to the um second level which is the apartment just to clarify it doesn't actually go to all it does not go to the lack it does not go to the left this this floor plan has the existing retail space that's there now it was used as an ice cream parlor there's an existing toilet and there's an existing preparation area more or less we do any renovation to that space either than um make a larger picture window towards the front uh just to be more um uh in in context with the streetscape and uh the existing preparation area would remain mostly intact as well uh it could be re re used as a preparation area for the Flor shop uh in the back of that first story is a storage area a toilet room in a proposed office my understanding that that office space is to be used for the landscaping business and just to keep it in context that office space is part of the rear Edition so it's above the garage is that accurate yes that office space is directly above the garage so the intent here is to keep most of this first floor intact okay the floor above the retail area uh H is a two-bedroom apartment uh with the family room bathroom laundry and a kitchen to the back that same Winding Stair comes up and that's how you would uh enter and egress the apartment there's an ADD additional stair as a form of egress coming out of that apartment which is for one prudent design and two uh will be a matter of code um if the building moves into construction and then the Loft here is really the half story and I'll go back to the front image to explain how that's working but there's a steep roof that comes up from the eve of the Second Story and that pitched roof uh is designed in such a way to give us usable area um which would be the uh the half story above so you come up a stair there's a small Nook area and then the master on Suite or the primary on Suite on the back with a master bedroom bathroom and a walk-in closet so the entire third bedroom is in the what would otherwise be an attic space and the bathroom area is above the winding staircase correct so the bathroom area then stretches across the uh the stair coming up what how do you access the area in the front of the building called attic you don't okay it's attic yeah uh either you for if utilities end up being in there there's going to be an axis hatch which is also required by code but it's going to be like your attic filled with insulation and not meant to be utilized so you'd access it through probably one of the two bedrooms most likely through one of the you know when we usually do we'll tuck that access hatch into a closet so it's accessible but it's not it's usually a 2X two panel on the ceiling you insulate a panel you move the panel you set up a ladder the few times you got to get up there it's it's not for putting your Christmas tree up there no more like your decorations and things like that even if that with all the insulation you got to put up there nowadays uh so looking at the front elevation the existing brick would remain we're introducing a new uh metal canopy an awning with some uh goose neck lighting and then this volume right here is the um apartment and then this A-frame shape uh above is the Loft but you're looking there that window actually goes into the attic um so that's not actually usable when you're on the back there's a window that's looking out from the bedroom uh if you're looking at the side of the building with the new stair Edition this is the new stair that's going all the way up uh from the basement to the second floor and it stops before it goes to the LOF uh we're looking at the side of the building that faces the firehouse uh there is a Canon lever structure there uh which helps get that head height to to get the Loft and this is the rear of the structure and you can see that there's an additional story because of that slope on the property from the front to the back um I did add a conceptual section here to understand how all these levels are being integrated but there's an existing basement the two-car garage you need a higher ceiling height in the garage 8 ft which means there's a few steps up coming from the existing retail area to the office area um because the floor of the second floor is the existing roof of the building now that Height's already set right so that level would just come across which means the existing retail is 10 10 tall that would remain and the office would be 8' 7 and then from there the minimum uh height typically for a dwelling would be 8 ft which would be the apartment level and then the Loft above it's like a like when you're in a cape it's going to have the slope ceilings right so it's um a little bit complex to define the height but the idea is that there's a usable height 7' 6 tall which be a bedroom can be carved out of but that's still defined as a half story though that's still defined as a half story so I'll go over a little bit of that data um so and excuse me if it's a little bit approximate from from Fred's testimony in terms of height I might have rounded right so the rear height I have at 43 fo4 from grade to Ridge so from the ground to the ridge 43 for now the front of the building where you enter that that front door is is 37' 8 from the ground to the ridge uh now the way we took some measurements of the nearby buildings uh I'd be hard to say that this is um uh absolutely definitive but it's close in terms of how we could take a measurement from the street so we took we shot a laser from the ground up to some of the elements on the nearby buildings to get some approximate Heights so shooting a laser from this concrete sidewalk up to the underside of this saet here of the Koopa is 35 ft so that's to say that the top of the CPA uh would be very close if not slightly above the the top of our structure in the front so um the building will not be taller than the firehouse the back we did not measure the firehouse from the back only the front we were focused on how this building was going to appear next to the adjacent buildings uh the bank we lasered at 37 ft from the peak of the Gable uh but that bank has a large Koopa on top which we were unable to measure unless we go up there and physically measure it but assuming that koopa's got to be 102t taller than the building so in terms of the nearby architecture um I this building's in proportion to it what about the building building yeah uh I believe we shot that from the front and the back I think it's right around 35 ft to the peak I think that building maxed itself out in terms of the height from the front or the back from the front so if that's 35 from the front ours is 2 to three feet higher uh yeah two yeah 37 fo8 to about 2 foot eight taller but I like to talk about the height for a little bit so um you know there's different ways height can be interpreted right and every Township actually has a different definition for height that's also different than the building code um but when you're doing a gabled roof it's very different than if you do a flat roof meaning that if I took this building and I show it to you 35 ft with a flat roof it would appear much larger it would appear much taller having a steep slope roof and this is about as steep as you get 16 on 12 it it lowers the eve substantially so while the peak is higher the the Eve is still in contact with the the neighboring buildings so in terms of scale and proportion I think that's why it's a a little bit taller but it's not obtrusively taller because of that geometry on the front of the building and you've indicated that the firehouse is actually at least the Copa is actually tall yes with the Koopa right in the master bedroom Loft area what's the ceiling height so in your plans there's a grade area I don't know it didn't show up too well on my plan show it up on [Applause] yours okay so there's a very slight line here if you can see it but it's a gr area that area is where the ceiling cuz it's sloping ceiling is that 6'8 after there it's sloping up um to the height of an an 8ft ceiling just not like these are 10 or 12 foot ceing they're pretty much the minimum amount that's usable for AED yeah against Ron's wishes cuz I I we kept it lowering in lower it to the minimum 8T yeah how high is it in the middle uh to the underside of the the roof yeah the ceiling on the SEC or the on the Loft I think you're calling it or the the two and a half the half a story it's a slope ceiling correct where it's it's a slope ceiling but at some point we build a flat ceiling structure so while the roofs keep sloping we we can choose many different lines um of where to put that flat ceiling the height on that floor is the same all the way around it's not as if the ceiling slopes to the walls so yeah no it's that's not true it's a gray area from that edge of the gray area down it's sloping meaning if I were to keep walking this way the ceiling is sloping in the room that's what I thought you were describing yes so from the center of that room from floor to ceiling what's the height eight feet eight feet okay yes M Mr Fernandez what what page are you on with those PLS it's a101 a101 correct so that would be where your 3 fo4 dimensions are yes the gray areas in between it's just not showing up probably on the photo copies I got you yeah it's very light on my copy too it's between if you look closely there's the 8ot ceiling and everything out to the outside is lesser that makes sense thank you want to take us through the uh show us your elevations again or even the streetcape and let us know what kind of materials you're contemplating for the ex of the building so we made the decision early on to keep the existing brick um this existing brick this sort of red brick is used throughout this streetscape you can see it all the way down to the uh automotive shop here retail uh the red brick and then on the firehouse so the red brick stays uh I think it matches well uh the rest um we're looking at uh like a Hardy clabbered uh cement board which they have different orientations you can put it so on the first floor we're looking at a horizontal clabber pattern and on the second floor and above uh we're looking at a a board in Baton style so it's a farmhouse style I think the geometry is very similar to uh uh the the streetcape up and down um Long Hill Road there uh and also just to mention right that I think this project fills a gap which is right we've got taller structures and then we've got this one story structure and in terms of the rhythm of the street it's currently out a rhythm and I've heard the um the statement that we don't want to make a mistake we did previously and go out of rhym with the street like you did with the bank but this is in Rhythm it's a 2 fo8 okay but it's still within the same Rhythm and pattern uh that's going down the street just one quick question the exterior stairway that's on the firehouse side what is that constructed of that's going to be a metal stair metal stair painted is that for a fire code or is there a reason for that yeah so when you're doing a um a residence above a commercial it's required to be an R3 rather than an R5 typical residential um which means it's going to require two meds of egis it's prudent design uh Roofing will be asphalt shingle roofing um you know architectural shingles um you can see color and pattern similar to uh other structures and the shed roof in the front is that metal yes is this the is this the color of the vinyl build that's the proposed color correct how did the goose necks work are they they to my eye it looks like they're going to shine on the top of the shed roof which I'm assuming it's not the idea no that's how they typically do yeah now that you you've seen it you're going to see it all over the place it it lights up the top of the awning yeah but it does not create light pollution it's not going to be it's accent lighting it's accent lighting yeah is there also lighting there's going to be there's going to be required lighting underneath this awning you know you're require to have a certain amount of foot candles for ESS lighting coming out of that door this is ACC lighting there will be some undermounted lights for general purpose lighting and what other exterior lighting would there be on that building uh so once again we're proposing the goose snck on the top that's more accent lighting uh this is a conversation you know I don't think we got there yet um but um you know I'd actually you know like to hear a testimony from the owner what the ideas were but in terms of um the architectural lighting what I'm showing here is is accent lighting and the actual Public Safety lighting I think that would be probably Bill hollow's testimony would you have basic lighting at the doors and things like that just typical security lighting every door entryway is going to have a light at it right uh typically those lights will be on a timer you know dust a dawn type timer yeah let's switch gears and talk about the pole barn which I understand you didn't design that's something it's essentially going to be imported and installed correct correct take us through that if you would please and for the record those plans have been submitted with the original package thank you while he's doing that I actually a question for the basement in theory count I as the no it does it 50% of uh its its walls are ex above ground are the walls for the basement above ground more than 50 % yeah more than 50 okay so assuming it's 50% or 49% is it the enclosed garage that is making this three and a half stories as opposed to two and a half stories yes okay so but but would can you design the building how would you design the building without pilings I mean they do all sorts of St yeah how would the building look if you didn't have the garage would you have to put it on stilts in the rear to Seaside yeah yeah yeah so okay so so so there would be an option potentially to have this only be two and a half stories but aesthetically having the garage which Tex which potentially is what takes it into the three and a half stories is preferable that's preferable there's different ways you can do it even if you had it P it a cboard and you were able to itly work so unban sitting on the the height calculation Remains the Same from the rear I know but there for existing yeah for for Gra made up but the stories is based on the use and the right ask while we're talking about that I was ask this at another time it's probably you can answer later if you want but why did you choose or the owner do we know why the owner chose to keep that building instead of just starting all over um it's a small building it seems like you're taking a lot of effort to build around it rather than just clean slate it is there is that an economic thing or is that like you did mention the red brick which I I think that's a great idea to consistent with the neighborhood and everything else but is is how was that decision made was it thought of just to level it and start over yeah I think because the existing retail space that's the ice cream power with suits an easy conversion okay into the floral shop so so it's the use utility that it's the utility yeah I'll talk a little bit about the garage so it's a prefabricated pre-fabricated metal garage uh the height of the garage from base to Peak you mean pole barn not garage pole bar okay just to be clear understood uh the the height of the pole barn from base to Peak is 22' 42 in uh it has metal corrugated panels on all sides um Ron and I were discussing earlier that the the color of it would be the same pallet as the building a mixture of black and white um and then the footprint is 40t by 32t with three 12T X 12T Overhead Doors why can't you make this P bar 20 ft High why does it have to be 22.4 my understanding is that there're it's basically purchasing prefabricated product so they have certain Heights they've already developed with you the the materials they're constructing it out of so this is like a standard offering from their catalog and is there an option for a 20 foot tall P Barn yes so why can't we use that is there a reason why you need the extra two hold on why don't uh for the garage door height so the garage doors are 12T High it looks like from the drawing yes yes and also that also gives me like um more storage because I made the garage actually smaller um cu the actual one one door is actually 10t to make to get it close closer into the property line I made this door a 10t wide instead of a 12 so I'm trying to get it like at least shelving in between the bay so I can put as possible but does that impact the height yeah it it'll bring my my ceiling height down with the doors for storage I mean if it's I mean I can go back to the drawing board with it but I know it had something to do with my garage door height okay there's a reason why yeah yeah my box truck is like 11 too tall and I'm trying to get that in there I'm not sure brought this in specifically Mr Sax you did take measurements of the fire department's poar is that right yes okay and what did you come up with as as those just to give it's 22 high at 4540 and the building itself 40 by 40 40 by 40 and yours is 40 by 30 yes but that's not impacting the streetcape so we don't really care what the fire department's full look like actually I would argue that they're both not impacting streetcap this is all the way back and down to the same level as the fire department the fire department for the back but it's the same level as this does does front on Crescent though the the fire department does front the Crescent so the fire about our our building here that we're talking about yeah for Street skate purposes is to the rear of the the proposed commercial building M fire department actually on Commerce I don't know so if you can look the uh the tree choices I chose um to block it I'm doing Slender silhouette um liquid Ard down the side which get 3 foot 30t tall and the junipers on the side I chose are uh Colum be like 3 to four and they get up to 20t tall so once that grows in you're not really going to see much back there at all and then on the back side I think we have a 8T or 6ot fence whatever the highest fence you like is and so to um the question from the public there will be screening from what you would see from Crescent or any houses that are visible both both sides will have larger colar trees um right side is going to be um ever left side visits the firehouse is going to be deciduous um and then the back will have a fence so there's screening all sides and I believe there's also a fence on the engineer on the facing to the right so it's such a drop off too so it's almost going to be like you're not going to be able to see that I know we're going off course but we might as well close the loop on this um what's there now nothing just to be clear when you talk about fre bring this whole unit in on a truck it's preab pieces components that are assembled on S correct Fred I I want to talk a second about the area and we might want have to refine that number it's just I know you said a th000 about 2,000 square ft if you were to take the footprint of the first floor and double it it would be 2,000 square ft but the usable area of the loft is um 502 Square ft so the apartment's 1036 The Loft is 502 so the net square square footage of the apartment is um uh let me see 1, 538 ACC obvious anything else on the unless there's any questions I have no further testimony the um on those buildings are they painted or they en in place they're painted yeah painted metal y okay do you have anything else to offer Mr Hollow on his way should be on his way I don't see him yet so it's accept to the board we suggest we' like to pause our application Galler Mr chairman public questions for this witness perhaps I actually have a couple question yeah is there do you have any signage proposed either your business or um the florist actually zoom in on there there's a little black sign I think on that drawing right Cory yeah we did we put a small hanging sign here uh blooming pedal hanging perpendicular to the street or parall the street it's on an arm it's hanging perpendicular to the street can I ask a about the sign yes what's the material that the sign is made from it's an acrylic the rod will be metal and the sign will be acrylic and will the the goose neck lighting light that sign or no it won't right the proposed gooseneck lighting will not light that sign okay and do you know if the specifications match our ordinance no we will certainly accept as a condition that the actual sign will okay all right excellent thank you you said there'd be some lighting under the awning for the doorway is there any chance that that's going to light the sign as well I I understand the sign will be under the awning correct correct the proposed location adjacent to the door with lighting underneath the awning incidentally it will MH will'll be lighted okay I have a quick question about um commercial vehicles that you'll be having in the back accommodating um you know your workers that'll be coming in the morning and getting into those commercial vehicles and leaving are you planning to do any sort of exp expansion of the existing asphalt back there like widening the driving space is it going to be gravel are you going to pave it back there it's uh it should be on the plan it's a paved area it's going to be paved okay that's how we're losing much impious because we're actually constraining and well defining driveway parking area now you just kind of have gravel all over the place this is going to be well defined and as okay for the board professional it's my intention to have Mr H address your reports unless there's something speci any questions from okay okay any questions from the public for this witness Miss Miss Microphone micone the distance from the living structure with the fls to the pole bar and it's a pole barn ex accessed from Long Hill Road only and not Commerce the paper street is Commerce Street I know there was a question nobody there was that's the name of the street so one of those questions I know the answer to which is the pull bar is going to be uh access from Long Hill uh the second question I believe it's going to be identified on the engineering plans the distance from the corner of the garage to the corner of that um proposed pole barn um I know we went back and forth on that so the dimension should be on that engineering plan and it's enough for a car to pull out of that proposed two-car garage then pull out of the structure I don't think at the same time but yes one at a time and also just to be clear we could not access our property from Commerce even if we wanted to because you have an entire vacant lot in between the back of our lot and commerce so we don't own that property cars actually owns it the perhaps this would help in relation the rear lot line of this subject property is the L Hill Road near side of the of the fire department's generator pad so across from the back of the building at the generator is the back of this subject property so there's a significant amount of vacant parcel to the paper Street where commonly you would see activities at the fire department congregate any other questions from the audience close to that close to them um I guess at this point we'll just have to well I would suggest we could take a break I the uh our other two members are on the way hopefully we'll be here shortly so we can take a break okay um take a break till 5 after 9: until we get okay okay we'll take a break that's good thank you thank you all right everybody we're back on the air at what time is it uh 9:07 9:07 and to let the the record show I'm going to retake the role since we've have some shifting of members uh Mr ronos hours yes the is now recused from this next application and has left the building has left the building yes Mr gianakis here Mr Flatley here Mr Rosenberg is still excused for this evening Mr wats here M Collins here Mr uh Vice chairman grov here and chairman gret here we have a quorum great okay so uh we are continuing with 977 Valley road Gillette block 10601 Lot 8 Downtown Valley commercial Zone District planed shopping overlay in the BD Zone District applicant is ready and here right yes sir okay oh there something there very good audence all righty they go chairman you have to guess who the lawy is and who the client is right before we get started okay to wear a tie I'm Richard skullnick on behalf of the applicant R doggy Inc which is a franchisee of the dog stop you've identified the address and the block and lot you're all familiar with the Valley Mall it's had some challenges The Proposal is for my client to take approximately 8,000 square ft of what had been the path mark way back some space Kings uh took over the path mark but not all of the path mark space so we're in about 8,000 square ft of space that's been vacated the only external construction is an 1,800 square foot dog run area behind the building with an 8ot fence we do need a variance for two feet on the height of the fence we have a used variance because although part of the proposed use is retail there's some other uses that are not permitted in the zone we're seeking sight PL approval uh tonight as well we think we have uh a use that makes sense that's appropriate for shopping center we're not aware of any Zone in Long Hill where dog boarding or Dog Daycare are permitted uses and it's certainly a use that our society requires we think we can have a clean a healthy safe uh place for Doggy Daycare and boarding while people go on vacation while they go to work while they need some help so we have robx year he's the principal of the entity he's going to do most of the testimony of David Weinberg his partner who is also here if you have any uh questions we're GNA have uh two minutes of testimony from a representative of the shopping center owner essentially to say look we really like to fill the space and then we'll have a few minutes of testimony on that use variant other than the people directly involved in the business do you have a a planner or engineer anybody we do okay okay oh okay uh I'd like to have all your people soring in at one time that's fine so David and you can swear get name okay do all of you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth I do I do great thank you very much everybody Mr thank you all right proceed okay uh Rob could uh tell the board just a little bit about your background uh as a as a business person and working with the ls sure um I'm a lill resident um I was educated and uh speak closer to the mic we're having a little difficulties is that better yes yes um I as I said I'm a Long Hill resident I was educated I got my BS degree from New York University and my MBA from Syracuse University and I spent 35 years um as a re uh real estate manager um during that time um I've always been involved with dogs and for the last 25 plus years I've been with uh the Seeing Eye in Marist toown uh raising training their dogs uh to be guides for the blind I'm still doing that I'm I'm awaiting my 22nd dog uh for that um I also have my um National certification from Animal Behavior College as a as a certified dog trainer and I intend to use uh my skills that I've I've have with dog bu over the years to um you know run a successful business in town um and bring a certainly a needed um use to you know the the residents of town okay can you tell us uh about your franchise and and what it's designed to do um the franchise has a a a whole number of um levels um we have a retail component uh and we intend to it's a problem solving retail component we're not going to be we wouldn't necessarily have the sorts of items that you would normally find like for food in Petco or petmart we're going to have much higher end um very good um um high-end foods to deal with certain problems that dog have like digestive issues so we can our staff will be well trained um that if you have an issue with your dog we will have the product hopefully that can um give your dog much more Health um we will also be doing daycare for the dogs um we'll have indoor and outdoor spaces for them uh dogs that are running around and happy um you know are are much better behaved um and certainly will will benefit the the um the clientele who who has that um we we're also going to have a grooming facility there so the dogs can be groomed um and if anything happens to the dog while they're on site you know dogs get messy when they're on site will be able to to groom them before they they they head back out to their their their owners um and I'm based on my training uh background I'm going to be offering training to um our clientele either that I train their dogs personally or um I work out that I have them come in and I show them how to train their dogs um obviously anything that I would train their dog eventually I'm going to would have to have a meeting with the owner so to transfer that information of how the dog is trained and how to properly how to properly use it um and of course we're also going to be boarding dogs um again you know Christmas New Year's uh Thanksgiving summer breaks people need a place to put their dogs a nice safe environment to put their dogs um and we will have that that space available um our spaces are completely um surveillance so uh owners will have the ability if they wish to actually watch their dogs in their kennel area to see that their dog is having a good time also to view them in the different play areas that we have uh and of course uh Dave my partner and myself and our and our uh manager who we have yet to hire will certainly have access to all the cameras and alarms that that if anything unto should happen we would be alerted immediately have 247 monitoring yes on that um so we have the boarding what what hours are the daycare going to be can you explain that to the board T typically the the store would be open from about 7:00 a.m. to about 700 p.m. for dogs coming and going um we'll have half day uh daycare or full day uh people will drop off their dogs and then and come back and pick them up you know down the road um we don't really won't have a lot of traffic in and out of the store during the day um it's really just drop off and pickup times and again 7 o'clock in the morning the shopping center most of the shopping center is not open so uh we'll be we'll be handling dogs when most people aren't there and of course most date you know they're there for the entire day 7:00 at the end of the day less very few people will be there how many dogs would you have capacity to board would we uh we have 75 kennels that we're currently planning to put in of various sizes okay um obviously we don't expect to have that number of dogs there boarding overnight some of those kennels would be used for daycare that when the dogs are tired they have a place to go and and and relax so we have to have enough room for boarding and the daycare dogs to have timeouts during the day number of employees customarily um depends obviously how many do you have it's it's going to vary we'll probably have on General uh site every day you'll have our manager Dave and I obviously plan to be there most days uh we'll have Dog Handlers in each of the sites in the back um so you'll generally have two or three Dog Handlers um one or two groomers depending on the need for for grooming at the time and probably one uh another person up front to handle like the desk intake so on a DAT we'll normally have about 8 to 10 people and of course that could be ramped up if we we have the need and the numbers of dogs is there anyone that's going to be there at night no okay so the dogs are not being uh there's no human contact at night it's better for the dogs actually not to have human contact at night um given the situation that we have the dogs are going to be running around and playing they need time they need like their time alone just like they do at home they will get put to bed they will be fed put to bed and then it's better not to have people roaming around because any disturbance for the dogs is going to bother them they won't have a good night's sleep we will certainly be there first thing in the morning and we also have all the alarms that if something should happen in the middle of the night we can respond I I'm literally less than five minutes my house is literally less than 5 minutes from the site you said you have cameras is any will anybody be monitoring them through the night yes okay one thing we talked about in getting ready was that the franchise or has very high environmental standards you just talk about a couple of those things flooring rage V system cleaning materials and sure sure um we are we intend to be the gold standard our kennels are um made of vinyl and Plastics so they're very easily kept clean um they um help keep the dogs healthy they're very easy to clean and the cleaning products that we use are from Spartan uh it's the same company that um provides uh the cleaning products to hospitals and day uh children's daycare centers uh and they are all um environment they're all environmentally friendly they're biodegradable uh though you probably wouldn't want to drink them I am told that you could drink them and they will not harm you uh but they will uh break down all the uh um urine and feces matter that we cannot pick up and make them safe it would also kill any um diseases that the dogs could potentially have so if we had an outbreak we have obviously um protocols for that that if one of the dogs was sick to completely uh cleanse the entire facility to make sure that those things do not um move on to other dogs that we are taking care of um the outdoor space um is a highlevel um engineered area um it is not grass it is a plastic uh material um with drainage particularly underneath and that facility can be cleaned multiple times a day if if it need be but we would then normally at the end of the day it would be cleaned with one of the Spartan products that is sprayed it's a foam um the walls are sprayed down the turf is sprayed down and there'll be little or no uh runoff from that because it will just penetrate down into the substrates underneath the um the artificial turf uh the artificial turf also has a benefit that it does not promote uh ticks or fleas so where You' have a situation on a regular grass surface that you could have ticks and fleas getting on the dogs this is almost unheard of in this sort of a product is that artificial turf going to be put down on the existing black top or is that existing black top coming up it can go down on the existing black top what happens is there's a um the existing black toop is would penetrate water will penetrate through the existing black top it' be slow but on top of that is a drainage a a drainage system that goes on top of that and then the artificial turf is on above that where is it drained to it drains right down into the into the soil eventually well but is it draining Beyond the Black Top somewhere no it would go right through the black top oh it would EV like if you spray your black top at home and you get it wet and the the black top goes down obviously we could break the black top and make that um drainage uh faster but it's unnecessary from the system that we have there is a pretty highend inch and ventil system that with humity levels air is that correct yes um all the dog spaces the training areas the Dog Daycare areas and the boarding areas um have highend HVAC turnover situ C turnover um systems that basically 100% of the air is completely cycled through to maintain good air quality in the site um and keep odors down um now again that's in oops excuse me that's in the rear of the the store we don't need those sorts of things up in the retail area uh but anywhere the dogs are going to be staying for a lengths of time there's a a high-end um HVAC system you mentioned protocols you're the franchise a you're taking a franchise correct working with a franchise' obviously researched and I see a box over there those are some of the protocols you just talk about that and relationship and What attracted franch uh the dog stop uh I I have to actually give Dave the credit he's actually the one who found the dog stop uh they are a very new and upand cominging franchise they have approximately 35 um sites currently um around the country uh and we'll be one of the ones by the end of the year hopefully that they'll have 50 or more uh there's plans to have 100 um shortly after that uh the people who founded the dog and their staff have combined hundreds of years of uh expertise in doing what we intend to do so we're not Reinventing the wheel uh they have protocols for everything from if a hurricane hits if the power goes out uh if we have an outbreak from the dogs um uh payroll systems Soup To Nuts uh on the system so Dave and I are you know walking into to what we think is a premier uh franchise or um and we intend to be very successful here and we have uh um plans for two more after after our site here in lill you feel you're going to get a good bit of support from that franchise they are um an excellent in fact before Dave and I open we will be going out to their base in Pittsburgh we'll be going out to Pittsburgh for uh a solid week of training on opening up and uh when we physically open here the franchise will be sending their representatives to assist us in opening it that make sure everything goes smooth okay we're looking for a variance on that fence height for some reason your ordinance has a specific fight or I think but anyway you're looking for 8 ft correct feet why' you like that extra 2 feet in behind the over there um again it's we are relying on the dog stops experience um and obviously my own experience dogs can scale fences um especially chain link fences we are not putting a chaining fence in this is a vinyl panel fence and at 8 ft High it is almost completely unheard of that a dog could scale that there's nothing for them to grip on to to scale a fence so this is for safety um you know a large dog could actually jump a 6-ft fence they cannot jump an 8ft fence and also being vinyl it's it is going to protect the dogs there's nothing for them to get caught on there's nothing them them to catch their nails on or injure themselves running into a chain link fence all you're going to have your own garbage dumpster yes whatever waste you may have um you're going to have your own call the zambon that cleans your indoor floor yes like a hockey rank or something yeah the truck you going get to drive that around well it's a walk behind but it's a walk behind but yeah all the all the interior floor surfaces um will be cleaned every day again to for for safety and for the health of the dogs deliveries there'll be box trucks on occasion we won't need we won't need many deliveries um the most of the deliveries are food products that come in and uh again our retail space we do have them but it's a very small number of items um so we won't have a tremendous amount of um traffic coming into for deliveries you have some protocols for snow days and emergencies absolutely you have to live right nearby but if somebody couldn't get and pick up their dog whatever I guess they become overnight tenant potentially right and and again you know we don't plan to have anybody there overnight but in the event that there's a situation where we think there would be an issue that the staff couldn't get their first thing in the morning we will have the ability to um you know like a small pull out bet or something that somebody could stay in the break room if it was absolutely necessary obviously not plan for okay chairman I I think I've covered most of the basics we have um M Laney's June 1st review letter oh um Acoustics you're comfortable with the Acoustics that are going to be there you expect any noise issues with your neighbors we we shouldn't have any noise issues um dogs don't tend to bark unless they are um distracted um that's another reason why the fencing in the back is vinyl and not see-through so somebody walking by the fencing in the backyard the dog won't bark and dogs that are playing together tend not to bark very much um interior wise uh the bank on the the right of us uh is a solid full concrete wall so there should be very after we put our wall walls up our finished walls up there should be almost no noise transfer that way um on the left uh the walls are a staggered stud so because the studs don't go all the way through when there is a tenant to our left um there should be very little of any noise transfer to the other tenant um on the other side and we're not proposing any uh signage variances at this time we conform with the town's ordinances or come back if we need to we I there's no reason why we should need a sign variants our our signage should be able to meet code no problemy was asking about storm water runoff and you you touch on that you really use a spray foam so there's no real at a there's no real liquid runoff that's that's going goes on to the As and dries and essentially dries yes and and those chemicals there are non-toxic type chemicals touched on that or well everything we use is non-toxic and environmentally safe you don't see anyut going even no none at all what happens the poopy if the dog takes a poop outside get picked up by your staff no no dog is anywhere um unattended so if the dog obviously you you intend for the dogs to go outside and that's one of the reasons that we do have the outdoor space we don't want to ruin anybody's house breaking by having the dogs go inside that they have a place to relieve themselves out outside and play outside um but our staff will immediately clean up any of that um when it occurs okay chairman we covered a lot of ground there okay for operations Li Liz do you have any questions just a a few questions one thing that hadn't occurred to me um before you mentioned it but what would do you have a generator or what would happen if if there was a prolonged power outage we we do not have a generator but um we we have contingency plans that if we see that there's this issue coming up that there could be a power outage we could bring a gener we would bring a portable generator in okay um and then how do you manage um the dogs going out I meaning how many go out like at any one time and you know do they have is it sort of very regimented you know okay this group goes out from 2 to 230 it is um it's very important to manage the dog groups um efficiently and with um obviously the goal that what kind of dog it is you don't want you know the the five or six or seven PB Chihuahua playing with 135 PB Newland so uh the the small toy dogs have their own section and even older dogs you might have a large breed dog but who's older in age you don't necessarily want them playing with puppies because the puppy could injure the older dog so we will manage the groups that we have have and a portion them out so you'd have groups of dogs going out to play together that are appropriate to play together and we have a number of play areas you you saw our layout there's three play areas inside and there'll be two or three play areas that we can set up outside we also have it's marked on our map as a VIP section sometimes you get a dog that doesn't play well with others um we we'll take any kind of dog but in a in a situation with with that the dog would then get individual play time with one of our staff in in a in a separate area um and hopefully over time we would be able to socialize that dog that it would be able to enter a uh a regular play section that's so funny because that's sort of what happened to me in kindergarten was in that VIP area you need a variance for that call it the VIP are but then they socialized me over a couple years here I am so so if you had 75 dogs maximum right you're saying you had 75 kennels so is that mean that you can accommodate 75 dogs at one time as I said technically speaking we could board 75 dogs we have 75 kennels but again we need space for daycare also oh okay oh I see so so that's different the 75 is different from the daycare right so and the the daycare dogs get kenneled as well so your dog comes in in the morning and they romp around for several hours they need downtime they need to rest they need to take a nap so those dogs would then get moved into um the boarding area and have one of the kennels to be able to to just chill out have a drink uh possibly get fed if if it's a puppy $500 the VIP it's a high operation and all all the dogs have their own bed when they're in there and obviously after they're done with it they would get clean before another dog would use it but yes well I guess my question really is how many dogs would be on site maximum at any one time how knowing that may this might not happen but how much could your could your franchise accommodate at any one given time for both for both boarding and daycare we you'd probably be looking at probably somewhere between 70 and 80 dogs okay um okay and then how long are and how many dogs would be outside in the play area at any one time understanding that there are these different areas but let's just say outside how many at at Max if you had two play groups outside obviously each one of them man with a with a with its own Handler you'd probably have 20 20 dogs outside at one time and again the dogs will rotate in and out it's also going to depend on weather as well I was going to ask that so is there any like a lot of dogs don't like to go out when it rains so I'm just curious what do you have any covering over the um or propose covering over the the outdoor area we we can do that um we don't have a proposal for it right now but we have those um like have you ever seen the sale covers for shade um we certainly have the ability to put one of those out um I think those are my only questions at this time thank you you have any questions so um I hadn't prepared a memo I had done a cursor review application when it first came in um noted that there were no technical concerns relative to you know the impervious coverage anything else and and storm water mitigation um however just wanted to touch on the play area outside mhm um the use of cleaning products for the urine and any waste and those being environmentally friendly yes you noted uh do you know the approximate distance from the rear of the fac facility to a any private storm drain that's in the parking lot I don't I don't know that okay um would you say it would it would not be immediately adjacent to the building it would be to the far curb uh like to from the so the play area is in the rear of the building correct right and so behind that play area would be Drive aisle Commercial Drive aisle and parking space yes right so and then curb and then lawn correct okay so that' be our our runoff distance potentially for any when it rains and any waste that would be washed away over the should be any there shouldn't be any dog waste as far as feal matter washed away because as I said if a dog goes the staff is going to immediately pick that up okay and then the cleaning product would help pick up anything else off of the AstroTurf any remnants Left Behind it's not asttr Turf but yes you get the idea yes artificial turf it neutralizes anything that's on the turf and makes it safe okay that you know a dog's not going to get any contagion from that and it's an ecologically friendly cleaning product again everything we use is from a company called Spartan they provide things to hospitals daycare um all those all those areas where you can't have something that would be toxic is that a requirement of your franchise or is that okay all right so you'd be comfortable then if it was a condition that you only use environmentally friendly cleaning products in the outdoor area absolutely and we were only going to use environmentally friendly things inside too so yeah okay so for board's understanding my concern is just for our overall ms4 permit and storm water runoff in constituents that might be you know connecting to a storm system that discharges the bake River any other water body yeah it it would I given the way the system works it it's almost unheard of that any of this would actually get into the storm Source system I mean I guess it's possible you had a hurricane come through and things you know a little bit can wait but certainly it's it's designed to dry and stay on there and basically dissolve go away just this it's going to be a lot better than people do whens much much better you had people don't clean up after the dogs drives me crazy but that's okay well thank you that's my only question okay I have a question about the wall that you're proposing to build and my um question is for the outside play Space um is the wall I know you're proposing 8 ft and and there's good reason for that and and um my question was is this wall also going to extend below the ground to take into account dogs digging or burrowing and trying to get out from underneath the fence yes okay yeah the the obviously the posts have to be down um a minimum you know minimum distance um I think they have to go down you know obviously below the the frost line for the supports right but the fence itself goes below below grade as well so dog can't get underneath um right but it is going to be black top so it would be kind of unlikely that the dog is going to it would be really hard for dog but you could have I mean technically speaking this surface could be put down on dirt yes um or gravel which a dog could dig through but they wouldn't be able to yeah but right now it's it's still going to be the black top there cor okay but you're going to actually cut the black top and put the fence below it they they'll be will be posts going into but the actual fence uh section will be right on the black top right okay so you're relying on the black top not being able to be dug through right well it it'll go down to the it'll go down to the black top and the system will be above that so they and they can't dig through the artificial turf okay so the uh the fence as noted in your drawing is going to be about 2 in above the black top the fence where the fence section Bott ra the bottom Rael right but then again but then the but then the the drainage system and the product goes above that okay and that's not that's a non- digable item they can't be okay all right that's what you meant by below grade when you said that ear below your grade below our grade okay very good that's what that's what got that's what got me confused yeah the post go below the black top because obviously they have to be have to be secured but yeah okay oh what's the lifespan of that uh product you're putting down uh in the run in the outside area no the the turf the turf I believe has a 10year lifespan okay so that is something that is eventually going to be changed yes okay yes it would be it would be upgraded or updated as needed okay um that that Turf is that Turf is essentially like a spec for Animals As opposed to for sport or any other type of artificial it's meant for recreation or or home home Lawns things like that it it's specifically designed for pet use yeah okay go ahead my question I have a couple first one is about leash uh use of leash for the dog it's sure the owners bringing the dogs in escorting the dogs in and your employees escorting the dogs from the facility to the play area will every dog be on a leash at all times when they're in the front of the store yes when they're in the rear they don't need to be on leashes obviously that'll be contained that is that how all the play areas inside and out are contained so it's so it's continuous from the indoor to the to the outdoor play area and if you go from the if if the dog let's say you had the group playing in the in the indoor space or the out outoor space and then it was their time to be timed out they would then be put on a leash and escorted escorted to their kennel and locked up in their kennel where they can't be roaming around okay so that jog in the rear of the building from the picture that's the only area where the dogs will ever be outside that's that's a contained area no leas required correct okay um the second thing is about the generator our planter asked a great question earlier if you're going to have a generator and I just want to know what the purpose is of the generator what will the generator power what will provide Power to will it will it power heating air conditioning um critical circuits or will just be for for lights if we if we needed it for an emergency purpose and we brought a generator in it would do the HVAC system because obviously we have to keep the dog safe uh the environment inside safe it would power enough lighting that the place wouldn't be pitch black right um and it would um it I would probably want it to also cover the um the cameras but the cameras may be down in that situation they may may not be able to broadcast because of the internet being of the internet being down so that's a significant size generator we're not talking about portable generators just for lighting and that sort thing we're talking about you bring in a significant size generator okay I just want to know what we were talking about and that's not provided by Valley and pl drill Associates or anything like that they back of power supply at all they do not as far as I know yeah we're not we're not expecting to have to do that but obviously we have contingencies for it just in case sure so that would be a life safety matter to keep the dogs warm or cold or cool depending on the weather correct and okay you would have that as part of your corporate contingency plan if there's you know You' have you'd have a generator Source already that could provide one if there was expected you know Terrible Weather or something like that you would tap that resource early yes you don't have 75 dogs and it's you know 110° and there's no air conditioning right we're not doing correct okay correct uh just so you know they they actually did have that situation in Pittsburgh with their six stores there they had the power outage go out um of course it came back quickly that they didn't have but they have their old setup and again we're we're going with uh the dog stop because they have these contingency plans all in place for just about anything you can imagine okay thank you welcome I got well go go ahead um I think you said about 70 75 dogs could be there at one time we we'll have kennels for about approximately 75 dogs and I think you heard you say that the dogs don't bark I mean I have one dog it barks um yes dogs yes dogs bark but most people if if you've ever been to a shelter situation and I've trained dogs at shelters you walk into the the caged area where the dogs can see you as soon as you walk in every dog is barking because they want your attention um once the dogs are out and playing in the yards and you have them outside they tend to just romp and play yes they will make growly noises with each other but they don't tend to bark at each other very much and the the kennels that we use and though they do have Windows and Doors most of the kennel because they are again a vinyl material the dog doesn't have a a complete wide range of view so you can they can be back there and settle down and go to sleep and you'll you'll very rarely have you very rarely have dogs barking and again that's one of the reasons why we're not going to have in general people staying there overnight because the dogs will sense that somebody's there and they're going to want that attention where they should be just sleeping how uh how long is your lease there so um we have a 10-year lease that we're signing with them and we have um I believe three contingencies for five years so we tend to we intend to be there 15 20 25 years okay I hope so and have you reviewed the noise ordinances in town with regards if they happen to be parking and how we might deal with that if they are or if a complaint comes along because but you're talking mostly about the outside right I I guess anywhere where the Barking could be possible parking might be heard or bothersome to either another tenant there that also wants to be there for 10 or 15 years or uh I think it's you know adjacent to Township building here we have a library that's kind of probably an airshop um I i' again just on my experience I'd be surprised that you would have a a situation that was overtly long where the dogs were barking and you could hear them here at the at town hall or the library well at night they're not going to be outside right they would not be outside no the only time they're going to be outside is during the day okay so most of the complaints of dog barking is usually 2:00 in the morning 12:00 at night when people trying to sleep but your dogs will be inside they will be inside sleeping in their kennels and more than likely not making a peep okay any other questions yes just a couple um so when when will the dogs be allowed out this play area out in the wherever the the outside area when will that be occurring all through the day they will the groups will be we manage the groups for age and size and which dogs can play together and they will cycle through the the the play areas but I mean when does it start when does it end 7 a.m. 8 I mean what time we'll be we'll be checking all the dogs in at 7 so probably 7:30 8 the groups will be set up and they will start going uh either playing inside or outside um because they will do both um and through the day but by 5:00 which is really towards the end of the day when we're going to start feeding the dogs there won't be any dogs outside at all um so probably like 7:30 8:00 to about 4:30 5:00 there may be groups outside but again they will you know cycle in and out you wouldn't you wouldn't have all the dogs outside at once and you wouldn't have all the dogs inside at once they'd be in in manageable groups and what are you going to do all the dog feces where does it go um into a dumpster just like uh you clean up I clean up for my dog I have a garbage can that that I clean my dog up with um so we will have a dumpster specifically for the clean up of the dogs and we have our cleanup bags again are bi are um environmentally friendly and biodegradable and why is why is this site particularly suited for this business we have our plan okay that's fine okay I'm good thank you you're welcome with regards to the generator you're saying that you have uh plans to pick one up if if the power goes out anybody here remember Hurricane Sandy anybody here get a generator during Hurricane Sandy didn't happen well again if if we had a situation where we knew a storm was coming we would do it well in advance we're not going to sit there and go up the power's out we need a generator the power might be going out we'll we'll have contingency plans we may not have it on site but we will have it arranged with our supplier Andy listen we want that generator should our power go out and we'll we'll pay them obviously they're rental for it if we don't need it we don't need it we eat it but we we will have it well well in advance um if if it should be needed and again in a situation like Sandy where the power was I mean at my home it was out for a week um the business would probably close because we wouldn't be able to you know they would have the animals would have to get re re uh located to their to their homes sir I was thinking about it earlier when I was asking follow questions of the generator and that's why I was saying this would be a contingency plan in advance it sounds like you're going to have a resource dedicated to you should there be an event that's sounds like to me not just like there's a storm coming Saturday and today's Thursday and we need a generator we start calling people correct okay right then the other thing is um sounds like the type of business you have you you don't have the luxury of just sending the dogs home because you might be boarding dogs and people maybe out of the country or something unable to get back or unable to get someone here you have to have that resource you it's not it's not if you must have that absolutely absolutely but in general like for daycare and things like that you would shut down dayare people just go home but there could be dogs that you're stuck with no no AB absolutely we do have contingency plans for that as well um and we intend to work with other kennels in the area because you can have a situation where other kennels in the area um may have lost power or have a situation where they can't take keep the dogs um we will set up situations that if we if we're able to take dogs that they have and they can't care for them properly we would take the dogs so uh and we would hope the the other kennels in Mars town and um and in town and and in uh Berkeley Heights and we'll set up um situation with we're not going to be in competition with them we want to be partners with the other kennels in the area so that the dogs can be safe and well cared for great thank you okay uh any uh public wish to ask questions of this uh witness yes ma'am come on up identify yourself state your name and address and ask you a question this is a question period not a comment hi um Linda paresi 54 planfield my question is I understand their daycare that that's 7: a.m. to 700 p.m. I believe you said but what about the boarding if they have to go out when do the dogs when are they allowed out to relieve themselves uh the dogs would get their last relief just before the staff leaves um and depending on the number of dogs the staff is going to be leaving the general staff will probably be leaving between seven and 8 um and most dogs should be able to make it through the night until the Staff gets back about 6:30 in the morning to then Park them the crate areas that they have are large enough that if a dog should have an accident um it's not like a crate like you have at home where they could would would then be rolling around in it because dogs do not want to go where they sleep and they will have their own bed so there will be an area within the kennel that they could release themselves if they absolutely had to but more than likely the dogs are going to be so tired from the day they're going to sleep through the night and then what time do they go out in the morning as soon as the staff gets there so 6:30 the staff will generally get there about 6:30 in the morning yes okay thank you thank you any other questions from members of the public okay hear you now we close it to the public the next wit is yes chairman um we are going to call Dennis Bachman representative of the property for some very brief testimony before we go to our plan get back oh uh we're going to take a two-minute break our attorney has to confer with the other applicant okay towards the end of the night just want chairman just so you know it's two questions from yeah I understand and then 10 minutes max for our that's fine but he uh let him confer with okay wow number Ian probably this game do you think they're going to win the series probably get H I don't have a I'm the only only I have this ad would be ad Candy Man and Adam Henry can be next good that cracks me up every time I see it sorry oh administrative thing yeah it's fine answer is okay okay and this witness is who we appreciate uh juggling of this is representative of the owner still on the road from an hour I understand okay what's your affiliation with the property owner uh I'm a consultant of real estate Consultants doing work for Valley and plane field Associates on pretty much a full-time basis there obviously a bunch of vacancies why do you like this t uh the tenant is is a um provides a service to the community we've had vacant space in the center for quite a while um I think path mark went out in 2011 Kings back filled that space um couple of years later but they only took 30,000 of the 50,000 so this space has I think been empty since about 2011 um this uh um Dog Daycare is kind of an upand coming kind of t C it's going into more shopping centers we're excited about um the concept that uh Rob and Dave have put together um in the dog stop franchise um and so we're looking forward they'll take about 8,000 uh square feet out of the 50,000 that Pathmark used to occupy you think they're going to help the other tenants Sho tenant mix issues I guess very much so just bringing people in on a daily basis and to the shopping center for the daycare again the boarding provides another service T night so yes just helps integrate the shopping center tenant mix can you just talk very briefly last question about sort of Trends in shopping centers to have some more service oriented than only retail we happen to have a zone that has has a good variety of what are you seeing that we have National tenants in there now the HomeGoods and the TJ Maxx Old Navy we have some of of the national tenants um we have a couple of smaller service tenants um as I say this is kind of an upand coming use shopping centers didn't previously have um say Dog Daycare in them didn't have um health clubs or gyms in there they didn't used to have urgent care centers in there there's a dir of larger tenants in this case 50,000 Square ft to try to backfill that space this is a good use for that we think a good um mix helps the mix of tenants in the shopping center okay chairman that concludes with this okay any questions of this witness I have one have you uh discussed with your other tenants whether or not this is a plus or minus in their view I did not discuss it with other tenants have other Tenants come forward to express any opinion about it uh no not to me okay sometimes things get out word of mouth but you haven't heard anything Haven G no there any way that the other tenants would have known about this potential tenant coming in uh generally no so they don't know they've got leases in place and don't know that another tenant's going to move in that has this use correct and often times we kind of have a requirement to not talk um about deals that we're doing um with a tenant oftentimes there's a confidentiality provision in our to our discussions so uh these guys are taking about 8,000 square feet and I think you said there's about 50,000 Square F feet there correct the Kings is about 30,000 square feet so with the other 48 42,000 Square ft that will still be vacant what kind of tenant do you think want to move in we've had we've had a couple of tenants that have had some interest we have ongoing discussions with tenants um do you think another food store will move in next to the dogy dayare um they wouldn't be unheard of do I think that they that they would um perhaps not but the supermarket space the Kings is about 30,000 um square feet and would not be that space is not immediately adjacent to um to this space okay to clarify where the space is in the building it's it's uh closer to Valley or it's closer to the bank closest to the bank you're not oh I'm sorry it's okay you're not expecting the tenants to be unhappy for any reason or you wouldn't put them in there some sort of tenant upro about this correct any other questions for this witness any questions from the public for this witness okay hearing n any questions from our expert expert I just one quick question does the bank um by virtue of its use have thicker walls than another tenant might have it does and I believe that's a concrete wall um on that side and and the other side is vacant correct we'd have to put up a demising wall for the 8000s to separate it from the balance of the 20,000 that the Kings doesn't have and that would be a sound attenuation construction that we would put in there because I guess my my point is anybody who's moving in potentially the Dog Daycare would be their first correct so they would they would know correct okay thank you okay chair we going to call our planner thank you golden prepar an ex uh before you get started we just have to go through your credentials yeah sure you have an exhibit Market is 81 would you like would you put that over to the right uh facing that way or angle toward us so that way the public could see it too if they want to people us you guys probably know the site very well though is this on yeah yeah you have to face your toward us but angle it so that if the public wants to they can yeah just like that perfect so um I'm a planner here in New Jersey I have my Masters in City and Regional planning from Ruckers I'm nationally certified with the American Institute of certified planners I'm also license planner through the um DCA here um I work for a land use firm out of newer called topology um I was retained by this applicant to verify that the application advances good planning principles and that um the use variants can in fact be granted um under the standards of a established case law which I'll go into I can have you uh testified before other boards I have never long I know I'm assuming never Longo but um like in this area I've testified Rockaway burrow morrist toown parney do that seems to be kind of the closer ones to this area okay you're you're qualified thank you okay he gold You' had a chance to take a look at the application documents in the site in light of the criteria variant and the particular suitability standards and can give the board benefit of your opinion got the D variant and then that very minor height variance under two feet on sure really my testimony I'm just going to go very little into the existing conditions because I think we've already established that framework I think this board is very familiar with the site I think we might even technically be within the 200 foot list if I was to look at that where we're standing right now um just whatever uh is proposed I'll highlight that real quick but really my corite testimony is going to be about that D variance in the medich case which this looks like a very sophisticated board I've been listening to questions um I think this board has probably heard the medich and so I'm going to explain how it applies here and why this site's particularly suitable how we meet the positive negative criteria then I'll touch up on the fence um C variant which actually you gave great testimony for me and that's just generally um the conclusion as you see this is a reoccupancy of a space minor site improvements on the outside but we're not talking um like a full-blown site plan we're talking about an established commercial use here an existence site go so the property is specifically zoned it's zoned BD business district but there's an overlay over it um I think the uses are generally the same it kind of all comes back to the BD Zone um the overlays the plan uh planned shopping center um so what you have here is the Valley Mall shopping center and what we're proposing is to reoccupy a portion of what is of many vacant spaces in this commercial retail store of complex for what is largely a permitted use where the um aspect that we need use variance for is the overnight kennel Park but otherwise retail is a permitted use and Commercial and this is a really fitting in it really is just that narrow part of the application about overnight daycare which is or overnight I guess it's not daycare if it's overnight overnight care um that that aspect is what requires the relief of this board and so that's really the large focus of this board um as well as the fence um which is a very minor C variance so in New Jersey we have uh the Magi court case which the courts have held that zoning boards can deviate from their zoning ordinances but there needs to be special reasons to adjudicate those types of cases and that's really guided in this medich case and really what that case speaks to is that there need to be um these special reasons really need to cover a public benefit and that it shows that this site is particular for the use that we're asking for so in this case why is the site particular for an overnight kennel aspect um and that under the municipal land use law that we can prove that we qualify for that special reason we also need to under the positive um show that the site is particularly uh suitable as well as that we're consistent with your master plan consistent with the intent of the zoning otherwise and that we're not um under the negative criteria that we're not causing a harm to the public welfare or harming the intent of what long Hill's master plan and Zoning intent um to kind of protect against such a you know the the use is just not permitted it's not specifically prohibited but it's not permitted so under the way the word uh zoning works it it typically gets thought of as prohibited so to talk about kind of the site in particular and there's this exhibit here I don't know if you guys can see it um but there's three a and I guess you can just mark it like plannner exhibit we applicant one I can explain it it's really just three components um and I think the bottom part of it you've already seen in your application it's the floor plan and you know the uh I guess we'll call it the architectural floor plan really the top left is just to orient you um of the site we are this big L-shaped shopping center you know Municipal Hall is actually over here but Valley Road is a long kind of commercial Corridor I'm sure we're all familiar with and what's on the top right I'll speak to momentarily later but it's um a snapshot from from your master plan actually so this site is a 24 Acre Site it's a very large estab when I say established I mean this thing has been here for decades I don't have the exact year but um this I didn't just come out of nowhere it's been a longstanding commercial land use structure here um you've heard from our uh I guess it's the representative about the vacancy issue I can even quote your own planner from her report she she talks about the vacancies as well in the in this site so there's really a need about reoccupancy is what we're kind of coming here tonight and why that ties back to site suitability is that this site not only has the space for the capacity of this it's a large site and it's well buffered from other adjacent sites that might be impacted by any kind of overnight kennel which would largely be like your residences which um I think like moristown Road might be the closest Residential Properties which is almost like a something like 750 ft when I measured it out but what's unique about this site is because of that L-shaped commercial lot and the way the rear interacts like I've seen these types of doggy daycares where it's very visible the improvements that you're adding because you do often have to have these outdoor I know you said it's not an astro turf but um a doggy Turf and you do need to have these fences and these outdoor components that goes and it AC accompanies as an accessory use and from applications I've reviewed before it's usually visible and it's part of a like a site plan that's a little more intrusive and you can see it here I don't even know if your Shoppers will know it's there it's it's really designed well to be in the rear in the back unseen so really what your Shoppers are seeing is just storefront that's now occupied with nice signage and people and activating it and using it again so it really um kind of reactivates a a dead space so that really brings us into why this carries out the purposes of zoning namely the purposes of the municipal land use law it's like literally the second chapter what is the purposes of zoning and you don't want to ever Grant a variance unless you're not VI you're advancing the purposes of zoning or you're not blatantly you know violating them and I think we're advancing purpose a which is just generally promoting public health safety morals and general welfare just by reoccupying a space that's a dead space it's an unactivated space getting you know people maybe not even just in Long Hill but around Long Hill coming to the space to to engage and use it and maybe they'll walk down the street and go to TJ Max and buy some clothes while they're at it so you're also just activating other retail spaces while you're while you're there um it's an appropriate space for the use which goes to purpose G of zoning which is all about re you know we talk about the reoccupancy and I'll get a little more in depth when I talk about the master plan here but it's meeting a need of what we see since Co a lot of people went out B dogs and now they're like where do I put my dogs when I have to go on vacation um it is a service that's needed so um it serves a residential you know it's a commercial use that also serves even your residential uses people that have dogs that need a place to be boarded and then also to purpose M which is just about more efficient use of land so again about activating it and making it um a service for your residents as well as workers being able to do their jobs maybe I need to drop off my dog or something so this brings us kind of to the next test with the Michi case which is this enhanced quality of proof about reconciling okay so we're not a permitted use in the zoning code um how do you reconcile uh why this use while is not being listed in the um zoning ordinance how do you reconcile that under medich and you know use variances are a case-by casee basis that's why we're here we're showing special reasons um and why this is uh appropriate and what you have is a Zone that's actually really high in intensity this PSO Zone I mean it goes as high as like movie theaters can go here so I know that movie theaters can cause a lot of noise when people get out and they're dumping their popcorn and they're done you know going back to their cars late at night or something you've heard our operators talk about the high level quality of operations that happens with these kennels which are probably going to be subject I know you have a kennel's ordinance and I know that there state regulations like you don't just have a use variance on something that okay it just kind of blows in the wind and who has oversight over this you have a use variance that's probably going to be regulated on licensing and sanitary compliance with your health codes and things like that so couple safeguards in place but a a very intensive zone so we're not going in a residential Zone we're not going near a residential zone so you would want to see something like this preferably in a commercial zone so and then again I think um it was testified to already tonight and there's this footnote I know that um Rick likes to talk about footnote 11 of medich about these like uncontemplated uses or New Uses really and like Doggy Daycare has evolved um in fact I hardly see Doggy Daycare without a kennel aspect um I represent Rockaway burrow and I know we had a I think an application where there was a kennel there and I know my firm we've represented somebody else that years ago with a kennel like I they it's it's not it's almost accessory in a way to to each other it's um it's common to see uh the two is what I'm saying Doggy Daycare with doggy kennel so Doggy Daycare could essentially have been a permitted use here so I think that what um at the bottom line is is that with this Zone and with these types of uses we're well with reconciling with the medich standard there and that these case these these types of uses are involving and that these are New Uses kind of evolving with with the whole Doggy Daycare uh model in general so really just the second prong of the midi test goes to that negative criteria um because you don't want to Grant any use variants on with a substantial you want to ensure there's no substantial impact to the public good so you've heard tonight testimony from the applicant about how noise and odor and waste removal um will be taken care of in a in a good Waste Management plan in noise with The Parting wall uh made of cement with its adjacent user and then you know any next tenant coming to the other side will know what's what's there but um again like the noise is going to be largely contained within the building building there's no residential impact it would be contained within the site um and the odor and the cleanliness is also it will be as testified maintained by the operator who has uh ample experience in this as well but um otherwise there's no real sight disturbance to this there's no issues with causing parking variances because we're changing this types of use um so really it's we're really looking kind of at the use with like an ancillary maybe fence C variants but you know when I look at use variances I tend to see how like all the C variances stack up too and does that help or hurt your suitability case and we really don't have a lot of you know bulk variances to accompany this use variance and that it really is just Standalone so then that just kind of gets to the last part which which is um you know ensuring that there's no impairment to or or violation in the intent of the purpose of your your Zone plan and your master plan and your zoning ordinance and I think it was spoken to a little bit tonight but you know retail needs have evolved over the decades um with online shopping and with requirements of space and like we're seeing large spaces being subdivided into smaller spaces cuz other than then probably a big grocery store what is going to go into that space you've heard it's become a path mark to a Kings and now it's vacant um it's it seems like you know the type of retail that's surviving is sort of the retail that requires like in-person uh interaction with the you know what we used to see where it can be replaced by you know purchasing things online you know it's impacting retail and think it might be happening to what's happening at this shopping center and it's causing some of these vacant storefronts to exist not probably just at this site but some of the other shopping centers and it probably detracts from the vibrancy of the town that we're looking for and this all makes sense because when I turn to your master plan you know it speaks about the downtown Long Hill specifically Valley Road and includes surveys and questionnaires that your own residents of LGH Hill filled out and some of these questions were questions like what is the most important thing in considering any kind of development in this Valley Road business district and the number one answer was attracting desirable retail tenants there was another question asked in the survey within the master plan about um like what keeps you from patronizing the shops and services of the Valley Road business district and the number one response to that was a lack of business that would appeal to that person so this is a new type of use that expands business that could appeal to more people and more users um and when you go to the zoning ordinance itself of the PSO there's always like that intent section and what the intent section of the PSO and I'll read it it says the goals of the PSO are to ensure that future development in this area is oriented to the shopping service and other needs of the township and area residence so to me the way I'm interpreting that is that the use variants you know it serves that retail needs and it fits what is a demand of today um I'm seeing more and more you know throughout New Jersey um the need of this type of use and um you know placing it here I'm not saying it's going to be the Catalyst use that might stop the vacancies but you know you might have users using this and then word gets around you might once you start filling up some spaces other spaces start filling out and that would catalyze potentially outside of this site um and kind of fit those uh reactivate those those vacancies around around L Hill and that's really the summary of the D variant um the other variance relief we need is the fence um we have just the benefits weighing the and I would say that just Falls straight up under C2 it's a Benefits case I mean it's nice to have an aesthetic fence rather than a chain link fence so if you're going to have an 8ft one it's nice nicer quality and really the negative impact of going 8 feet than six feet is let's say you're a residential neighborhood it's a bunch of six feet fences and this one person decides to do eight it's out of character you don't have that situation here this is in the rear again it's for safety for the dogs it's not a fence compared to other six fet fences and this is going to be the one that stands out that's it's a very unique Nuance um I think to this situation thank you for your testimony yep uh any questions from the board I do yes than so correct me if I'm wrong I I understood your testimony be that doggy dayer would be a permitted use the wrinkle here is is the overnight requirement expectation but in looking at the document from our planner it says that at least I understand it to say that the following are not permitted uses kennels Pet Shops dog pounds so it sounds like it's a lot broader to me if that's true then what do you think about I mean what's your view if it's some such so restrictive so are not permitted M so I'm just reviewing the permitted primary uses it talks about about retail trade retail services I don't have the definitions right in front of me [Applause] um carry over it's on page three by the way of the paper you're talking about r r report okay can I actually just step in all right um so I I what I'd like to to say is um when this use came before us we were trying to figure out is it a permitted use and so we look at what they were going to be providing so certainly retail absolutely it's permitted right because so they're selling of their product there there is a retail portion that was clearly permitted right then there was The Grooming portion so that it sort of got into the well you know is that a retail service meaning you know like the way somebody could go get their nails done you know is a dog going to get its haircut retail service and we thought you know probably yes that that you know that it's a little bit of a finer line because dogs are different from people but that that would perhaps be a permitted use what did not seem to be permitted was the the boarding kind of put it into a different level because while you may even the Dog Daycare could be potentially have pushed it into a use variance because it's it's not a permitted use the boarding with was what you know that's overnight that's 24 hours a day 7 days a week potentially and so we thought well that that is clearly not permitted and so that's really why they're here before this board for the D1 so yeah I mean that so anyway that if that makes it clearer yeah so any use I kind of remember this from it was being created any use that's not explicitly designated that it's permitted is automatically prohibited correct is this on a any list of prohibited uses it's not a as a uh explicitly prohibited use um bi Omission as you say bi omission of from the permitted use is it's it's it's not permitted but it's not namely but it's not one of those special list of you know these we really don't want these things yeah okay right that's thinking myself I just want to be clear on that right so I think the one thing I would add um that I'm much of the planner said is that there's explicit recommendations in the land use element which you know was adopted less than six or six months ago to expand the permitted uses in the in the downtown areas because to make sure they're up to date to make sure that they do encapsulate some uses that are newer um I'm not saying that this would then become a permitted use I can't say that it would because it could be that you want to keep something that is a 24-hour day 7-Day week operation you don't want to permit that as of right you so that you know the boards can take a careful look at it but I do want to say that that is an effort I think coming out of the master plan to allow for broaden the permitted uses so that um you know Long Hill and and the the vacancies particularly a Valley Mall but all throughout the township would um that there would be options it would be more yes it would be more attractive to potential users because there would be more permitted uses this does it matter that the the actual people in the building won't be there before 6:30 and they'll be gone by 8:00 at night just the dogs will be inside inside that I I mean I think that's if that makes that I don't have any uncomfort or discomfort as a planner that may be something that you have an issue with um you know if it's permitted meaning not under the zoning but permitted like by the licensing powers that be then then that's so be it you know if if if that is you know but if it's something that the board is uncomfortable with that that perhaps is something you could request of the applicant okay thank you one more which I asked earlier um why is this partic why is this site particularly Suitor for this business sure so um I did cover that but I'm happy to go over it again I'm sorry if I missed it it's okay A Lot the there's a lot of bullet points but if I was to hone in on this you know it's a large 24 Acre Site um with an established shopping center um so part of suitability is I also like to look at like where you would not want it and where would this be a nuisance and clearly nuisances and residential type neighborhoods probably this is well buffered from any kind of residential component nearby of at least 750 ft and then this Shopping Center in particular really lends itself for like a reoccupancy opportunity here um my testimony was I was talking about some other applications I've I've reviewed in this in this kind of business and you don't really get one of these dog uh boarding and daycares without some sort of sight plan component with you know we have to take our dogs outside we need fencing and that usually always becomes very visible I'm not saying that would not make it that not won't make it not bad but what gives this site something unique and suitable is that it's all in the back where no one's going to see not even from Valley Road just it's close to that bank I don't I tried to you know peek when I was driving by and what what could I see from Valley Road you're not going to even know that you you're going to have to just know that this is here to know it's here um would you say that this is going to appear just like a retail facility right it's going to be retail in front so we have a shopping center it's going to have the retail component M right so it makes it really look just like it Blends well right it blends perfectly actually because what's facing the public is what exactly permitted by the ordinance doesn't that go to the suitability of the site it does the front part of the store is retail did can I ask did you take a look at the greater area behind the shopping center so are you talking about um is is that protected open space that's un undevelopable well it's the town hall right no beond going down to the paic river it's it's sounds like you know the answer yes so would you agree with that so nobody's building a house nobody's going to build a house there nobody's going to build the SE that yeah I yes and being on the Ros SE it would mean that you wouldn't have development just appear there it's also very wet so it's never going to be developed and then across the street you also have a similar situation I believe you can't see on your but you do thank you Mr flat have we answered it I the question yes she has thank you very much yes we did our best you right we're really presenting as a you got an existing Center there this is going into my argument my closing I hope we get uh before you do that is anyone else testifying no we're done okay just just making sure because we're running a little close on time here uh sure go ahead yeah well go ahead ask basically uh you you testified that and we heard that you keep the place very clean your place um they going to be you know 70 dog owners or 60 or 50 dog owners bringing their dogs into your place um how can we uh encourage them to keep our Valley wall clean as well I mean I know you're going to keep your site clean the one that you're leasing but we've got a lot of other public that uses the parking lot and the sidewalks leading to the other stores is there anything that you can well we we will have cleanup equipment available to um the public as well and we intend to be very active with the public as far as anything going on around town and to help educate people how properly to take care of their dogs it's one of our retail like I said with our retail we want to help solve problems that people have but also um you know somebody adopts a dog they don't necessarily know how to train the dog they don't know all the nuances for taking care of a dog and we want to be out in the public and and be able to educate the public on how to properly take care of their dogs it'll be one of our one of our things that we do with public so people bringing their dogs to stay at your place or for daycare will be instructed by you as to clean up after their dogs as they're coming in and out that's where I'm going we we certainly we certainly will encourage our clientele to do that but if we but if we saw that somebody didn't clean up we would oh that's great that's certainly a condition of approval not sure how you enforce it but we're going to not want to have dog poop outside there well I'm assuming that near the front doors there's probably going to be a trash receptacle with bags I I usually see those out like at veterinary offices or it's usually at the front you know there's if you're going in or it's just at the sidewalk there's usually a receptacle with bags that dispense and I'm assuming you'd make that available to your clients we would certainly something similar to that maybe not exactly that but yes we would make something similar to that okay we we also have a pet waste ordinance which is which is from the D model ordinance for water quality yeah and so that can be enforced onto the shopping center property so any well particular violations that are between landlord and tenant I would assume the landlord would make sure the tenant doesn't but also also The Paton yeah right I mean you would want to encourage signs please do not have your dog uh you know uh go to the bathroom between your car and and our building or something well sometimes you can't you can't stop your dog that's or clean up if it does we would we would certainly have we would certainly encourage our T our clientele to clean up and as I said if we saw that something hadn't been up we uh we got to take a vote here guys because we're going to be on to 10:30 uh do I have a motion to extend for another 10 minutes so move Le for this application second for this application all in favor I okay good another 10 minutes um so is any more questions for their planner I got a few Mr chairman if you let me inter me um just to close the loop on that so I think I'm taking this as a stipulation you guys would comply with the dog waste ordinance absolutely okay uh similar note um I'm going to refer to Liz's memo here um I noticed she flagged a couple like nuisance related regulations in our ordinance uh section 144.5 which is covers wastes I think that's a dog waste ordinance 144.5 which covers noise and 14411 which covers toxic chemicals you guys would comply with all those as conditions of approval absolutely okay great um cover the signage already um I'm going to make myself look stupid here but I just want to make sure we're crossing all all the teas and thought all the eyes um I noticed in Liz's memo on page four and again this is the one dated uh June 1st 2024 I don't know why I have to go look at the year um there were a couple non-conforming conditions existing non-conforming conditions I just want to make sure they don't need any relief for that no they're all related to the mall okay so it no okay and the other one was the uh the fencing for dog run areas there was a footnote here fencing for dog run areas is required to be provided in rear yard rear yard areas only where the proposed fencing is to be located in the sidey yard of the subject site so do they need another variance for that or is that maybe technically I think you know that's meant for somebody's home in this instance it is in the rear of the of the potential establishment it might be the side for the street but it's in the rear of the building okay so it's not okay I mean perhaps technically yes okay and you would guys would apply your C2 argument to that item of variance relief as well okay to the extent necessary just making sure I said well it's better to have it than not of course right okay that's all I have thank you very much yes yeah that's just what I was going to do any questions from the public for this witness yes ma'am come on now oh you have to come up to the mic because it's not on the record unless on the mic for the Yeah question for the planner right or whoever well that's right just ask the questions where at the end yeah go ahead so like where Kings was right yeah but not was other area next to King but on that same side and so then it's going to be behind there so not like on the homegood side it's on on this side okay and one other question and I don't know who can answer it so is the it's my understanding the noise ordinance in town is 7 a.m. so would that include dogs barking if they go out so if they're out at 6:30 is that are they allow is that part of a noise ordinance well assuming they if they bark and and disturb somebody yes they bark and don't disturb anybody you know it's all no no I understand that okay thank you okay thank you and we have one other lady coming up building oh you got to come to the mic state your name and address and ask the question I've already been sworn in different different application uh Millington well for this case what is your name Pamela oens Millington okay and what is your question Fire EX fire sprinkler system I'd I'd assume that there's sprinklers in the mall right Rob yes yes yes is okay yes there are and I just want to say I think this is very much in need for the community as a dog owner yeah that's fine I take my dog to okay that's fine we're at the end anyway so I'm going to combine the questions in the comments cuz we're at the end of this I'm going ask you to please come back up later and say what you were going to say under oath no that's all right um any comments from the public you already you sore in anyway so um okay well okay is would you like to close chair I think great years the shopping center has challenges you all know that shopping centers have to evolve yeah I use there's a lot of dogs out there there has to be some place to bring your dogs for day boarding when you go to work and and and overnight when you go on vacation I think we have a great location there's minimal construction only in the back and to address Mr flatley's Mr flatley's uh concern it's going to look like retail it's the spot from the front of the building exactly there will be people walk dogs in and out but it's going to look retail so that makes this really suitable and no new construction got to have it some place not going to you're not going to want it in a residential Zone we got a we got a old shopping center that needs some help and and I think you got a great operator here you got some real pros who can uh make a nice uh addition to to help this shopping center as gold said maybe not transform it but one by one you got to get some strong tenants in there and they got the backing of what looks to be a great franchise so I strongly encourage you or I certainly think we've put on enough evidence where you could vote airm a thank you we do need the five votes here yes would you like to sum up sure F comment if there is any are there any comments from the public nope okay hearing none close it to the public okay all right Mr chairman uh applicants here applicant here is seeking uh minor site plan approval minor site plan approval a D1 use variance to permit uh specific about it the uh proposed animal daycare grooming and overnight animal boarding uses which are not permitted in the PSO District or the BD Zone which is the applicable Zone here uh they're also seeking a bulk variance for a fence height of 8 ft where the uh maximum permitted fence height here is 6 feet uh we'll also I guess we'll throw in that additional uh variance regarding the location of the dog run area it's only supposed to be provided in the rear yard and to the extent that's needed that's part of this application as well as far as conditions go the applicant agreed to complying with all of the uh nuisance related requirements of the ordinance those specifically those are sections 144.5 point6 And1 of the ordinance any signage installed would comply with the ordinance's requirements for signage there are few other conditions including uh applicant will only use environmentally safe chemicals in the outdoor uh play area hold on be with me yeah uh the applicant will pick up any animal waste created by its clientel if clients do not do so that's in the front portion and again that only applies to your clientele you know obviously if it's not somebody's you know comeing your business you don't have to pick up their poop um comply with the dog waste ordinance I'm not sure if that was already subsumed within previous ordinance citation I listed but that was that one and that's it so yeah five uh five roads to approve okay wand would you like to start uh yes it was a great presentation and for brevity I won't go on about why but yeah I vote Yes so thank you Gary I think you guys uh are going to be welcome in our community so be accordingly okay Meredith well I really appreciated you know how detail oriented you were with your plans and you know what you plan to do to accommodate the public in answering our questions our concerns and I think it's something that would greatly be appreciated here especially in the Valley Mall Jerry I concare with what my fell fell board members have said I think um you've done a great job communicating your your excellent qualifications to run such a facility I think the community would really enjoy having this here um I think that it meets the pro positive criteria and the negative criteria it is definitely a particularly well suited site it's not near any residential use it's well buffered as your planner said it's already in a large existing commercial use it fills a vacancy in that in that facility that could otherwise possibly or potentially be filled with something worse people think this is negative I don't see it that way but if somebody doesn't like this something much worse could wind up there um the outdoor play area is in the back of the facility which is where we see tractor trailers making deliveries and you have trucks taking out dumpsters so I don't think anybody really cares too much what goes on there the only neighbor that faces that part of that building is the town hall and there is a strip of trees and shrubs that go between them and you know that's maintained um I don't see any any anything other that it doesn't do anything to uh to to anything to the detriment of our Zone plan or ordinance or anything like that I think we're all good I think this is and it's you know it's not an explicitly fored use as we' talked with our own planner about um it's not necessarily permitted but it's definitely something that I'm Tom yes um so as far as the feces I guess that's really an issue for the Board of Health so pass over that as far as the dog barking I have a dog I'm going to bring to your kennel as soon as you open see what happens as far as the it certainly is um as far as on that vacation as far as the description of the retail versus the dogs in the back I think you've answered my question about the adequacy of the site so I vote in favor Tom thank you for a good presentation appreciate your time and effort into this this is uh a necessary business in lill with for all the reasons why you that you've already put before us uh thank you for using the Mt space uh you've defeated my my cons I'm not worri about the sound or the litter anymore um it looks like you're going to get a yes vote so I'm welcome I'll be first to welcome you to longan I uh concur with the uh opinion of all my uh uh fellow board members I think you did you did an excellent job presenting it to us you've answered our questions you've uh uh Allied our fears about things that we might have had concerns with so would also be a yes vote uh would you like to uh State what very uh would you like to put forth a you already did that yeah okay do I hear a motion to uh approve this okay second second Mr Ron yes Vice chairman grow yes Mr Gan ois yes Mr Flatley yes Mr wats yes Miss Collins yes chairman GRE yes thank you for your time we appr apprciate it other applicant waiting here as well hopefully be congratulations I'm roting for great job tonight you're rooting for came be able yeah and I realized never Whenever there decision game like that Elin my name on the floor I'll [Applause] let get so if if they come back and win before I get home I know I know just right now I got a streak going like prob the drinking a bottle for the first and then 3 four five six got pictur might be okay go for it [Music] don't got that's thanks Rick have to how much longer do you think this will be not that I'm pressuring you on the time Bill's been instructed to do the short version so why don't you start with 45 minutes 45 yeah okay half you think you're ready get him to what 11:30 yeah yeah okay that was like we need to do there okay are we back okay I'm ready to go yeah we're back ready all right can I get a motion to extend the meeting to 11:30 11:30 go for it yes 45 minutes okay we're going to try to make I was told 11 probably that's what that that was the initial understanding hoped for yeah we'll do our best but we do appreciate you staying very I think we still need the motion can I get a move second second second okay I oh yeah Mr holl swear affirm the testimony about to provide be the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth so I'll be God I do all right go is Mr holl qualified as a professional engineer been been your thousand times for the record William Hollows Murphy and Hollows Associates 192 Central Avenue Sterling and I understand you have exhibits Mr Hollows could you please identify those and date them please H I thought they might have used this one but I guess not they did not yet is she two4 the existing conditions drawing revision date of April 30th 2024 this be A1 or want take them all take them all as a package it's colorized sheet two2 yes it is all of them two4 I'm sorry two four my apologies is it colorized I can't see it yes yes and we might as well Mark the next one right yep it's a colorized drawing of sheet three of four this is the proposed conditions also April 30th 2024 yes great oh just to clarify too for the what's the date on these current plans the last set that was submitted was April April 30th 2024 okay I believe that's what's on the website that's just it is the existing conditions you probably talked about this before I got here but uh we're on the south side of Long Hill Road right next to the Millington Volunteer Fire Company and presently there is a small building on that site and to the rear of that building is a gravel parking lot with a driveway that goes between the building and the Volunteer Fire Company and presently we believe there were three parking stalls on that uh pulled in directly to the front of the building the proposed conditions you've heard the architect speak and the owner speak they're going proposing an addition to the existing building with a and that'll be the the lighter tan the darker tan is the existing structure and then also a pole and garage to the back of the building we had gotten a letter from Morris County and they wanted to eliminate the parking on Long Hill Road they wanted two-way traffic to go you know in in and out going to the back of the park or the building or the parking area behind the building I called up the planner for Morris County spoke to him and said well the owner had bought this property with the with the uh understanding that there were three parking stalls on Long Hill Road and similar to what you've got just to the west of us and then you've got U the cars building there and then you've got the auto repair has well they pull into the front of the garage at that at their location then across the street of Millington you've got some well now it's carne Bank you've got some parallel parking stalls so he said to me I'll I'll go to the site and I'll take a look at it and then we can discuss and and I gave him a couple of concept plans of what I thought we could do and he got back to me if if you spoke with him he went to actually went to the site and he went uh spoke with the engineering department of Morris County and they would allow us to have an In-N-Out driveway since it's such a small parking area and they would allow one parallel parking stall in front of of the building when you say in and out you mean one lane as opposed one lane for both in Ingress and egress and we've got we need eight parking stalls we have the parallel parking St on the front we've got four along the uh side of the driveway we have one between the two buildings and then we have two in the garage for the new structure not the pole barn but the new um multi-use building the for the apartment and for the business there Morris County came back and said that they basically want a stop sign and a stop line which is not not a problem to end the drawing and they want me to push this parallel parking stall right now it's right up against the building they want me to push that out further from the building so that we've got a walkway um that contiguous to the Volunteer Fire Company and then also could be accessed to the cars building to the west but it'll still be the parking space will still be off of the street it'll just allow pedestrian traffic between the space and the building correct and since we've made this this drawing the applicant would like to put two parking stalls between the buildings they just fit and then we would set instead of having four along the driveway we would have three but possibly make them a little bit longer um for a little easier Ingress eess to get into those parallel parking stalls and that'll increase our coverage by a little less than 200 square fet is that right that's correct yeah I think it goes up to 74 74.1 we're uh anticipated 72.2 now unless the numbers have changed no correct we are yes the way it is right now it's 72 .2 but if we had the parking stall and this would remain as impervious coverage then we're increasing by one parking stall which goes up to 74.1 so two that seems like a very large increase for less than 200t well it's only 8,300 square foot property yeah the numbers go up quickly 74 I'm sorry 74.1 the what I would call essentially the on street parking would be two in the front just one one parallel one parallel and then three along the and then we're where were you gaining this second one you said right here right there okay but that would be the proposed parking layout what we've done as far as storm water management we have are proposing to have all the new roofed areas from the multi-use building in the front and also the pole barn to go into a dryw system we have in this instance we did a soil log and we had a soil test done and the the the ground there is suitable for the drywells they just have to be a little shorter they're not the typical 6 feet deep dryw they're only 3 ft deep that's why there's four of them there but they they would take the buildings and the uh just the buildings Is it feasible to direct all of the roof uh water into the drywall system can it handle it would be there they're downhill of the uhu so it's it fair to say then by doing that as well as by reducing the parking lot area in terms of coverage we are significantly reducing the amount of drainage that flows off of this property yeah we would because right now everything just goes back just goes back to towards the railroad basically um and not our existing or the proposed parking lot would go that way it's just the buildings that would go into the dryw system so we're significantly improving the drainage situation overall yes so just to be clear there's no drainage in terms of dry Wells or anything on the property now not that we're aware of no so you're reducing the impervious coverage and adding additional drainage that doesn't otherwise exist correct we we're reducing it by by that by adding that system well also by diminishing the size of the parking know the imper yes yes we're reducing some of the impervious coverage it kind of goes all the way around up up to uh basically up to the where the new addition is so we have less coverage and what coverage we do have a lot of it's being captured it's not now correct this may only be semantics but in the the on the bottom part of your illustration it says a proposed garage I know it's a pole barn does it matter that it says garage is that I think if when I if your board were to approve this application and I revise these drawings I'll probably put pobor garage because I in my notes that's what I put it down as so we talk briefly about lighting what are you ening I I had on my plan just proposed really to add um something that like a carriage type light with 100 wat bulbs on the the pole barn and also on the garage door above the garage doors on the uh the multi-use building and then there' be another light that would be on doorway that is on the side of the building and then and I think the architectural plan shows some lighting across the front for the sign that's what I had proposed and all lighting not not not to I don't think it's the kind of site or at this time it's not the kind of use that we need to get light polles and and things like that I think uh Mr Sax has indicated he's not a heavy use there I new agree with M Mr hernand who said uh that all the lighting will be down focused it was goose neck lighting we were talking about the front of the building yeah um yeah the lights on the garage definitely not flood lights something more attractive looking I don't know that we want to put Goose necks there but maybe um like a carriage type light it's not going to spill on neighboring property isn't it no no because because really we got the big Firehouse right right across the way okay stipulation bill with an eye towards the bulk the bulk variances that we need for the pole barn can you describe the surrounding area to give the board an idea of what impact or more importantly lack of impact there will be on those smaller setbacks to the P this is our site this I'm going back to sheet one and you've got the subject property to the east you've got um the firehouse across the street is a kind of a wooded area I believe it's part of the bank property that's not developed I mean we really show the that would be more of the parking lot and then I think there's some land Beyond that's that's just kind of wooded um to the west of our building you've got the cargs building you got the auto repair you got the auto body shop down on well you don't even see Commerce Street here you it's a it's a parking area for Millington Auto Body um you got the firehouse and then you've got there's a I guess a kind of an open air there the picnic area for the firehouse with another garage there and then beyond that you've got NJ Transit I think looking at this drawing the first residence you have is just a little bit beyond 200 feet from our property on on the Crescent know the area directly across from the firehouse is owned by lill Township and it's kind of a parking lot for the firehouse is it fair to say that the pole barn would be buffered not only by whatever veg and we'll ask you for landscaping in a minute uh but in addition to whatever Landscaping buffering we're offering Firehouse itself is going to be quite a buffer for visibility to that P C that's correct and this this area behind um car's building car owns both of these uh lot six and Lot 10 and it's just it's vacant right now it's got a driveway through there that goes to the back of his building so the any impact that the small setbacks that we're proposing would have is almost non-existent because it's it's facing vacant areas that's correct they're I think fair to say unlikely to be developed given the nature of where they're located type of street that they're on assuming Commerce is even considered frontal Street yeah it would take a little bit of effort to to develop that that back piece how about visibility of the pole barn from the street level given the difference in elevation well number one we're we're pretty much behind behind the uh the other building from the street were quite a bit lower probably close to uh 8 ft or so so you maybe see a little bit of the roof if you Peak between the buildings is it fair to say given where the seta violations are they would have no impact from the street perspective because they're on the opposite side of the building on the street your setbacks are along the back yes P bar as opposed to Longo road which is all the way in the front right what kind of buffering are we proposing for the PO bar in particular we've got some pine trees that are there and this might be more more Mr sacks are already testified I'm just asking what's on the plan or is it not on the plan yet it's on the plan we've got uh it's he it's darker green it's a row of um shuberry they're uh I think they're peramal parameter thin col columnar okay so ultimately the concept is to have a solid barrier of vegetation yes yes uh any critical areas any environmental issues on this no we we don't fit that criteria for steep slopes so we just storm water this is minor development minor development excuse me do we do we have a problem with setbacks for the proposed uh pole barn as it it's 2 and 1/2 ft from one corner and two and 2.7 right those are our our both variances for the setback thank you very much yeah 2.5 from the rear and then 2.7 from the Westerly side yeah just making sure we're cover of course is there is there any way to situate the the pole barn so that it's not so close to the property line to an a half ft is is pretty close and I know we're saying it's not developed right now but the way I look at that you could combine those two properties and develop that and access it from Long Hill Road and then whoever's buying that property is stuck with a pole bar and 2 and 1/2 ft from their property line if if they were willing to sell it the uh applicant and the fire department have already asked for dibs on it so uh we're okay we're trying to be the ones to do that uh bill is the answer to the question though it's really a function of the operation of the parking lot yes it is situation could happen with your current owner too they could choose to develop it stick something doesn't have to be sold for that to happen right right they're not here right right presumably they got notice no what I mean is the yeah the fire department the cars absolutely what I means the the property owner could choose to develop that and sell it or rent it or something else right OPP to be here if we tried to move it further into the property how would that affect the functionality of the par well would move reduce the uh the Turning movements quite substantially you know and preclude us from adding that parking stall between the two buildings there's what's the reason for the parking stall between the two buildings we were we were going to eliminate parking stall number two and then add it added in here so that if there per chance there was someone coming and someone going at the same time there'd be a little bit of room to move over to let that vehicle in you want to let the vehicle in before you go out are we not are we not allowed to count the two parking spaces in the in the bar as part of the eight that are required well we we didn't want to get too greedy we were just that would yeah I mean look if adding extra parking is making you you know need this location of this whole Barn to be so close to the property line and you don't really need it because you have the required number of of spots right well the geometry of the the pole barn at that size MH if it's relocated away from both the both of those rear Corners it's going to conflict with driveway movements in and out of the attached garage yeah so so it would have to reduce in size in footprint at least right to then be able to accommodate that area to the north where the parking space is without conflicting with other turning movements on the site okay was car approach to potentially purchase some of that property yes um CS was approached jointly by us and by the fire department um the thought being that we could actually split that property and they at this point are not interested there is a depressed curb between the um yeah detached garage and the the drywalls is there a corresponding gate for Access through the fence to the rear or is that just simply for drainage purposes that was simply for drainage okay before we get into professional reports I don't have any further questions for Mr holles any else in the interest of time would you prefer Mr holl to go through it or would professionals like simply focus on whatever might be left I'll defer Mr holl to summarize and stipulate yeah I think i' satisfy me I think I've hit uh a lot of them as as I spoke here just for the record we have Mr B's May 28th 2024 memorandum and mr's May 31st 2024 start weever one you want to start with I have Joe's letter in front of me so I I think you could why don't we skip down to start us off on page three down into the off street parking um and the parking area design standards there's a few design exceptions just to make sure we cover the understanding of the spaces being customary in size but not meeting our ordinance and the uh two-way traffic width would be normally be 24 ft or 15 ft for one way and that's part of what you're you're mitigating with the county at the driveway right by removing that parking space well the county they've seen this drawing and they really came back with comment was move this parallel parking sole out a little bit and then put a stop bar and a stop sign there but but to accommodate the Stop Bar I and have the ability for somebody else to turn in while you're queued at the stop bar that's that's the need to reduce that parking space yeah and I I think it was as we're going through the plans prior to this meeting the the owner said I think I'd like to have a spot there okay um so that's where we indicated we' put the two here remove that one but you're correct our our driveway up at the top is is well it's 18 wide curb to curb on your dimensions of your it'll be 12T wide when you get back to the other the second parking stall correct so by removing that stall you have the ability to have two-way access still with a design yes a design exemption but then that could also address some of the accessibility of having somewhere for the rare patrons that park there to go to the flower shop to be safely out of the way of a of a car turning in on the blind side of the building that that would be correct yes okay okay um that gets us right into technical so I'll leave it here you to pick the poison on stipulations well is there anything that we can't I'm sorry before we go any further I just want to confirm so you're going to be seeking this design waivers for all of those various uh Drive AIS and parking and St correct okay just confirming thank you please continue and they'll they'll be slightly relaxed from what I have in my letter okay based on the testimony of the anticipated plan revisions that they're already going to put in right I think the experts understand what the the technical can you explain that to me I'm sorry I so part of my part of page three of my letter um getting from off street parking 2.5 through 2.6 and parking area design standards those are design exceptions from our standards for dimensioning of spaces smaller spots right now they're customary common spots 9 by8 but not meeting our our code um as well as the width of the driveway for 2-way Access when there was a parking stall there as shown on the plan it was only some 12 ft wide right 10 10 or 12 ft wide essentially less than oneway access for two-way access PR code by removing that parking space it's still less than the required width of a two-way driveway but it does accommodate more room for appropriate turning movements in and out of the driveway so they're still requesting all of those exceptions but they're in revision will be less of deviation than what's indicated than what's indicated in my m i see are you comfortable with the size of that parking spot if you were the person that went there yeah certainly n i mean 9 by8 is is an industry standard okay um so our code tends to be a little bit larger you'd see in many shopping centers in other areas commercial areas they'll often ask for that design exception when they come to our planning or zoning board mind if we just confirm which ones are needed here I'm just going to list because I think I have them all written down um off Street perpendicular parking space size correct off Street parallel parking space size yes um no Ada parking stalls yes when one is would be required unless the one in the front can be stipulated to be Ada accessible can we make it accessible but not it could be designated but not accessible it still need a design exception You' need any exception from ADA requirements we just want to yeah we want to just make sure that it's not somebody's not prohibited from parking there if they're not Ada which obviously is common yeah if it's yeah if it's Ada accessible and you're saying not designated as the Ada spot yeah I think that would we consider that a design waiver from our standards that would be um provision of a I'm sorry a well let's call a 08a spaces one when where one is required okay fair enough so we do need and then we'll do our best to make it accommodating to somebody in grade right right and access right uh the next would be driveway width that's this driveway width uh Drive aisle width for the parallel parking stalls uh location of off street parking stalls having one in the front of the building yes it's a design waver uh sideway or I'm sorry sidewalk with about they're proposing 3T wide fourt is required and then finally um sidewalk access to a commercial building entrance they're not proposing that and that would be otherwise be required correct okay cool thank you those are all thanks Joe appreciate it um as far as your technical review comments I just went through there and a question with Fred and I I don't see where there's anything that's a question that we can't adhere to and I think most of what I've asked for Testimony I was checking off as we went was already covered with other other testimony believe so so I'm generally satisfied they would eliminate a few variances we can Circle back to that at the end of the the end of the hearing okay Liz report though I'm sorry I don't have it [Applause] I don't see anything that we yeah there's who's going to provide planning testimony so uh nobody's providing planning testimony there would be planning argument presented okay okay is it Mr Hollow no oh okay all right I'm not going to kill the poor guy sumon on okay all right so I think the only I think everything was addressed in testimony that's not um planning arguments okay we're in List's memo I'm G again just want to confirm the variances here um I know going to do it at the end but I think now's a good time just because we're on her her portion of this um heard to cover the D5 the D6 we know those are here lot coverage 74.1% UH 60 is the maximum permitted stop me if I'm getting anything inaccurate here uh Flor of Apartments uh height of accessory structure for the pole barn uh Westerly side yard setback of the pole barn rear yard setback of the pole barn um this is where we get into more interesting ones um use of painted steel and metal siding on the pole barn I think would that be a variance or is that like a design waiver is that even variance okay yeah she's noding her head variance um I don't think you need this I think the applicant said stipulated that everything was going to be stored inside but um I think you might have needed a variance for outdoor storage or display of uh of goods products or services is I don't think you're going to comply with that portion of the ordinance you're not going to be doing any of that okay uh number of stories for the uh proposed building uh two is the max remitted 3.5 are proposed um dumpster enclosure side rear yard setback capacity you're going to comply with the ordinances requirements for the dumpster enclosures 154.32 1561 of the ordinance think you're going to you guys will comply with that one as well yes yes okay fly uh side Sidewalk width we touched on already uh building materials think we touched awning materials those they don't need they don't need relief from those sections they do not they do not okay cool just eliminating uh lighting design requirements you guys will provide a lighting plan uh in accordance with the ordinance 23.2 given the testimony do we really need one that's kind of where I was going that's why ask for a waiver on that if we could okay yeah waiver and then uh air conditioning unit screening you guys going to provide that I think we might have touched on it before I can't really recall we can we're going to put some screening around it all right we apply okay great okay that's it for me thank you guys questions any further qu uh any further questions from the board for Mr Hollows I do have a question about the sidewalk was mentioned earlier um the sidewalk will go from the firehouse to the card property is that do I understand it regular normal concrete sidewalk no it's not all concrete it's a lot of it's paved paved okay it's it's asphalt combination asphalt and uh concrete depending on what property you're at oh I'm sorry but the prop the improvements that you that you proposed we weren't proposing any improvements because it's already there oh it's already there okay so no change to that no are we going to accommodate the County's request by striping basically is that how we do yeah I think we're yeah we'll have to do that the whole thing is asphalt now so it's really just a matter of designating the parking space which I would assume by striping yes that will be than the sidewalk right now it's just one continuous piece corre but we're not going to put curb in or anything like that we're just going to stripe it you're going to stripe it so people know where to park and where corre okay and there's no other streetcape items proposed there no there's essentially no contiguous sidewalk along the front edge of the street it's essentially just that's why asking for clarification new concrete standard sidewalk any further questions from the board no one okay open it to the public any anybody in the public have questions for Mr Hollows it's way too late too late in the evening for me to start they really should be doing this five uh four Mr Hollows I'm sorry could you guys like if she's asking a question we got to make sure it's on the record you know it's it's an open public hearing here any further questions can we just put her question on the record yeah let's make sure we get that please this has been online submitted no I just the render well it's other than color each of the things on the website has multiple pages need bring it up I can't put it on the website but like that now I'll come and get just my understanding of it because I was able to hear the question you're basically asking where the parking spaces are um you were asking Mr holl where the parking spaces are located and he showed them to you as I stated before my my underlying concern the trucks resk visitors parking a small space so I would just like to be able to look at it a little more carefully um and just comment wise I think aesthetically if you could have one contiguous um sidewalk walk it would really look a lot better than the concrete in front of the firehouse than the asphalt in front of this building and then further down on Long Hill again it's concrete we just made it one one sidewalk all concrete rather than concrete asphalt concrete aesthetically it would look a lot nicer if you're going to do all this thank you thank you she was duly sworn at the previous meeting or the previous part of he just just would you be objectionable to doing with the rest of the I'll call it downtown Millington business district standards look like which is Belgium Block curb and a concrete sidewalk in front of your building I kind of need that parking for it would be parking you could have it but you could just designate that differential between the parking area instead of the curb would prevent the car from being able to get up on the this is a county road we have to get County approval to to do something like that okay so my understanding I thought we just talked about the parking area and the sidewalk would being separated by paint yes so what would be the difference if that were Belgium Block curb instead of paint or are you talking about a flush Belgium Block curb well if you look at downtown Millington right that's what we'll call it I guess in some areas it is flush on on the other side of Long Hill Road primarily so we really the bank side has it right and then what used to be the Chinese restaurant which is now I think in transition to a Turkish restaurant that has Belgian block their neighbor Long Hill Auto has Belgium Block but it's sort of recessed and they yeah they go directly into their building yeah but it's it's still Belgium across there with a sidewalk with a concrete sidewalk so all of the downtown Millington with the exception of the card properties have Belgium Block curb and a sidewalk so for this property though you're suggesting a flush just just for Aesthetics to have a flush the neighbor is I think has a good point um the rest of the neighborhood has sidewalks and curb yeah I think that so the concern is that the subject property and the neighboring two properties neighboring one property are essentially off street parking perpendicular or parallel right an extension of the roadway in the RightWay and then the next property picks up sidewalk flush with flush curb at grade with asphalt behind it um I I don't want to speak for the county because it's there right away it's their jurisdiction but I don't believe believe there's enough dimensional width between the front of the building and where we would set that curb to have 4et of concrete that the I think what the Count's asked us to do is park closer to the edge of pavement quote unquote the edge of the travel way right and by doing that that car would be in that first four feet Where the Sidewalk would go that would be correct discussing would I guess be the alternative to what the Count's proposed so we'd be in conflict with the County's request the county the Count's asking for there to be a pedestrian walkway but it would be right up against the front of our building they want accessibility in and out of the building not Where the Sidewalk would logically and would rather it appear as parallel parking on street essentially right okay okay all right seeing the closing to the public and I think we're closing both questions and comments because I believe that's how everybody questions and comments say goodbye done is no one else in the public no okay going once twice you're go all right okay I close very briefly but thank you again for staying with us this evening so we can get this concluded we do appreciate it greatly um obviously we have several variances involved most of them are bulks uh the two use variances that we have are a D5 and a D6 uh the D5 is for density um it's because our lot is so small that we end up with h a 5.24 uh density when we're only allowed to have a five in reality it's kind of a flaw on the way ordinances are drafted because in order to comply you'd have to have less than one unit which obviously doesn't even make sense logically so uh it's a very technical variance uh even setting that aside though the standard is the same for both the D6 and the D5 which is whether the site can accommodate the harm uh that the limitation is designed to prevent uh again even to discuss that with regard to the D5 is uh kind of a discussion that doesn't make sense as I just said with regard to the D6 as I mentioned the beginning under the Grasso versus burough Spring Lake Spring Lake Heights case uh they want you to take up the court says look at your streetcape look at your Skyline uh and see if what's being proposed from perspective is having a detrimental impact upon that uh as I argued before what you're seeing is what we're proposing now uh it's more consistent uh with your streetcape than what's there now what's there now doesn't look right this does uh and Mr Fernandez uh mentioned that in terms of flow and so forth and correctly I believe so I think we've satisfied positive Criterion for the D6 um with regard to the C variances all of them which includes the stories um basically there's it's a C2 analysis flexible C benefit outweighs of detriments there's three purposes of the uh M that uh are involved here one is a to encourage Municipal action to guide the appropriate use of development of all lands in the state in a matter which will promote public healthy public health safety morals and general welfare uh in this particular we're not dealing with physical safety issues uh by creating but you are improving the overall atmosphere of the town uh and the public welfare in that sense uh second is uh purpose G to provide sufficient space appropriate locations a variety of agricultural residential recreational commercial industrial uses and open space both public and private according to their respective environmental requirements in order to meet the needs of all New Jersey citizens and finally to promote a desirable visual environment Rec creative development techniques and good Civic design and Arrangement which is purpose I all three of of these are satisfied uh as the proposed development of this property uh by providing retail commercial and residential space in a single aesthetically attractive building with a formal PL paved and Landscape parking lot uh effectively although may may not literally replace it the unattractive existing building and gravel parking area uh and as well as by substantially reducing the impervious coverage and the draining situation on the property so what we are doing here is taking a lot that's uh got problems it's got challenges and generally speaking we've improved them all around uh certainly with regard to your drainage certainly with regard to your Aesthetics and certainly with regard to your overall Street skate um the only detriment really that you're looking at potentially uh with regard to your bulk variances for the uh for the Pro itself that we've talked about your setbacks uh and again you're dealing with a situation where there's nothing but vacant lot surrounding that Barn uh we are going to have it fully buffered vegetation most of it's already buffered by the uh Firehouse itself and also by the uh by the slope from the street you're looking basically over top of it uh it's it's well down below uh and honestly there's a pole barn right behind us uh that's basically the same thing it's actually larger uh so as far as detriment to the neighborhood and fitting in that Barn's been there for however long and to our knowledge has not caused any kind of a detriment um with regard to the of the apartment uh we could be compliant uh with two apartments uh instead we're looking to just have one and yes it's more than a th000 square fet but in this particular property given the size of it and given the design that we're proposing it makes a lot more sense to have one unit rather than trying to rent out two different apartments not to mention two different apartments would increase your parking requirements so for all of those reasons we think we've satisfied the positive and negative Criterion for both b d and c variances thank you you again for staying up with us tonight and we would appreciate a positive vote us not we have six you're okay with proceeding to a vote with six can we take a straw vote that if there's anybody thinking of voting no could phrase it that way to make it actually the way you handle it your members typically given anyway follow the normal proced you let me know if you want to maybe punt okay Mr chairman do you want me to try to summarize again or it's getting late uh sure do it really fast all right I'm going for record speed okay Apple can meeting by five minutes uh yes can I get a motion to extend the meeting five minutes I can't see the clock good call so move second thank you that's all in favor all in favor I okay they're seeking pre preliminary and final major site plan approval 1 D5 uh density variance uh 5.24 units per acre proposed or only five units per acre would be permitted just to be clear the only proposing one apartment unit uh D6 height variance the proposing structure at the height of 34.3 ft tall uh where only 35 ft would be permitted uh loot coverage proposing 71.1 I'm sorry 74.1% where 60% is uh permitted maximum floor area of an apartment in the M Zone they're proposing a floor area of 15838 square ft as per the testimony of Mr Fernandez before where uh the maximum permitted is 1,000 square ft um height of the uh pole barn which is an accessory structure the in at at a height of 22.4 ft where 20 ft is the maximum permitted uh Westerly sidey yard setback for the pole bar in the proposing 2.7 ft where 10 ft is the minimum required rear yard set back of the pole barn proposing 2.5 ft where 10 ft is the minimum required uh they're using painted steel and metal siding and roofing finish on the proposed pole barn even though uh those materials are not permitted by the ordinance ordinarily uh also seeking other variants sort of related to height but this is just for the number of stories for the the proposed principal building they're proposing 3.5 stories or two stories is the maximum permitted uh and they're complying with the dumpster requirements uh building materials all these other things that I don't need to go into that they indicated they'd be complying with um several design waivers that I touched on before off Street perpendicular parking space size off Street parallel parking space size provision of no Ada accessible parking stalls were only uh or one would be required uh driveway width is uh not comp Drive aisle width for the parking stalls is non compliant location of off street parking stalls is non compliant uh insufficient sidewalk width 3T where 4T is the minimum required um and no sidewalk access to the commercial bu building entrance is uh also proposed we have a height variance for the B Bar did you mention that I did mention that yeah 22.4 ft where 20 is the max sorry I just missed it yeah no worries and then as far as conditions go everything in our board planner board planner and Engineers memorandum respectively dated uh May 31st 2024 and May 6 2024 the ly of other conditions I got to go back through my notes to dig these up uh applicant would park uh employee vehicles in the pole barn when work trucks are not there kind of covers that one for the parking issue I know there's a few other ones in here most of these I think were in the professional memos anyway they're going to comply with the uh sign ordinance uh I'm on I took my notes for the last application in the same p hold on okay uh they're going to revise the plans to identify the detached pole barn is a pole barn garage um all lighting exterior lighting is going to be directed downward or otherwise shielded not to cast Village on the neighboring properties and uh I believe that's it they were also as I we had a previous exchange before that they were going to be complying with multiple requirements of the ordinance that were flagged in Liz's memo um so if I didn't specifically state it before they're not seeking variances for those and they're going to comply with them so I think that's it Mr chairman and probably just to mention that the uh one parking Spate is going to be removed and replaced in a different location okay that's going to be a stipulation I'll take it as such okay um deliberations Jerry would you like to start sure I'll start I don't love the application I understand that you're trying to improve the proper and I totally respect that um however I think the density is a little bit much for the area when I say density I mean the the total use the the reduce size parking spot uh insufficient uh area in front of the building for sidewalk and the park and a parking space um the pole barn itself is large and excessive for that area um I understand what your attorney said the comments about we're supposed to look at the whole streetcape and the size of the buildings around us uh around that area to to determine the height but it's still you know it exceeds the the the stories I understand that because of the the slope in the back and the walk out basement Etc but uh still even from the front of the building it's still 37t 8 in which exceeds the height ordinance itself um I think a better uh you know maybe a little bit of a better design to try to at least keep that within our standards I I have people about tide ordinances because that they we do point to other buildings and if we did what your attorney said every building would be higher than the next one because they all fit with the with the streetcape and the design of the other building so I don't love it however I think um it does improve the area um what's there now is is like I I agree with that what's there now is not fit with that area at all it's a it's a little box um and it's it's an unimproved lot um so grudgingly I think I'm going to say yes uh to that and and that's why I'm going to leave it but yeah that's I don't love it I don't love the size of the pole barn on somebody else's property but as my colleagues said they're not here to object I get that but they just maybe not paying attention we don't know what's going to go on in that area in the future yes the firehouse has a PO barn but that's Community serving that is you know there's life safety equipment in there right there's stuff going on there that we actually need so I appreciate what you're trying to do you're trying to mix a place to store your construction or your landscape equipment with your residents I understand that we're probably losing a lot of the industrial areas that we have in the town where you're committed to store that stuff so that's another consideration that I have uh Tifa may be going away um I understand what's happening so or Barrett itself wherever you store right now Barrett may be going away but so so again be yes sorry to delor this so much thank you miss Colin I do appreciate the fact that this is going to you you'd made a point of mentioning that this simultaneously is going to be a living space not just for yourself but for your family so I think there's there's something to be said for the fact that keeping this place neat and Order late the fact that it's going to be a commercial business that you're operating and also living in there's that incentive too to keep things neat and tidy and orderly and um um so I appreciate that um when I look at the design of the building I don't I mean there isn't anything that aesthetically to to my senses is is offensive I mean I look at it I think it's a great Improvement to what's there overall um I feel like I've already spoken too much given the time but um in in my eyes I think the that the benefits outweigh the detriments and I would approve this application so it's a it's kind of a very small unusual size lot I think you're trying to combine your business with your home life which is commendable I think what there now is is is needs a great deal of improvement which is what you're doing and I think overall I think it's a it's a good plan and I would approve I need a motion to extend the meeting for another five seven minutes okay uh all in favor I okay Randy would you go next sure um Mr zi I think you made the comment during the first half your presentation that this fills a gap and that picture is your case um I agree this CIT your reference to gra the Grasso case I think it's very compelling um so I'd vote Yes as well so thank you for the presentation and also I want to thank the public for their commentary and and concerns as well so thank you yeah I I I don't usually go last so I don't really have much else to add um but for all of the reasons that my colleagues have laid out I'm also in favor of the application I will just add also that um the conditions that have been both initially agreed to coming in um with the screening and the drainage and the like right in terms of improving what's already there Beyond on just the Aesthetics um also ways in favor of approving the application in terms of the benefits outweighing the negative so I'm in favor of the application than and I too will be in favor of this application looking at what you proposed compared to what's on the property now great Improvement uh you've done a lot of work you had to work with the county and with our great board secretary zoning coordinator uh and I will shut up at point and say thank you very much for coming thank you okay so do you want us to vote okay question of the hour Mr zeli what is what's your answer there's your straw point you want to roll the dice get unlucky I'm going to make a motion uh we're all done with you right yeah for a five minute break can I have someone to uh move to approve this application so move second second M PR yes Mr f yes Mr R yes Mr wats yes M Collins yes Vice chairman gr yes motion carries thank you all very much and I can still say have a nice night we just need one more motion motion to adjourn so move second second all in favor we're out have a wonderful even