all right we're on the air All right I'm calling to order the zoning board of adjustment meeting for March 18th 2025 at 7:37 p.m Call to order and statement of compliance Adequate notice of this
meeting has been provided by posting a copy of the public meeting dates on the municipal board bulletin board by sending a copy to the echo sentinel and by filing a copy with the municipal clerk Standard board procedures Any meetings conducted by the board is a quasi judicial proceeding Any questions
or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board may legally consider in reaching a decision and decorum appropriate to a judicial meeting must be maintained at all times Meeting cutoff announcement is made that is a matter of procedure It is the intention of the zoning board of
adjustment not to continue any matter past 10:30 p.m and at a regular special meeting of the board unless a motion is passed by the members then present to extend the meeting to a later specifies cuto off time Electronic devices all in
attendance are asked to mute cell phones or any electronic devices uh as to not interrupt the proceeding Okay everybody take out their phone and put it on uh where um vibrate Okay Pledge of
allegiance Tom would you lead us please to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all All righty Now we
uh we have um reappointees Alex Drazznney and Paul White Alex you've moved up to regular member Congratulations And Paul you moved up to alternate number one You guys are really moving it I tell you Must be all that good work you're doing
And just to note for the record we also have uh Randy Watts who's now official Yes Yes And Randy has now been officially moved up to a regular member And we're still in need of an alternate number two Anybody out there wants to volunteer uh seems like it's hard to get
people Roll call Yes Mr Rono here Mr Geianis here Mr Rosenberg here Mr Watts here Mr Zidrosny here Mr White here Vice Chairman Groskov here Chairman Gre here
Chairman we have a quorum Thank you All right We have meeting minutes I know you guys have just seen them but um do I have a consensus if you want to just take a second and look through them there's really nothing of any major um shouldn't be any major changes We can
address them tonight Um if somebody has a concern let me know I'd rather get them done tonight than wait Um I had a chance to look them over They look they're always well done And uh just take a minute or two and look
them all over Oh we have Yes Yes Yes Yes But they're short Yeah I know I know Well we have two and two Two resolutions as well
Yeah All right Has everybody had a chance to look them over they're relatively short Anyone need more time yeah let's start with October 1st 2024 Uh now the excused people are Tom Grokoff Jessica Brennan who's not here
Jonathan Rosenberg Rand Randall Whites and Elizabeth Ley Well she doesn't vote so it's just I'll move those minutes from October 124 Okay Do I hear a second second but you can't second You were excused I wasn't
here Gary second Okay All right Uh yeah What all in favor of the people that can vote I And Deb will get with all of them Deb will get all the uh extensions Yeah And now we've got the October 15th
minutes The excused people were Jerry Aronio co Aronio Jessica and Gary and Tom Flattley So the only two people are still here Jerry and and Gary Uh do I have a motion to move the October 15th uh minutes so move Second Okay All in
favor i November 26th the excuse Well she's not here so everyone here is not excused Uh do I hear uh a motion to move the November 26 2024 minutes november 26 Do I hear a
motion do I hear a second second Okay All in favor i All right Now we've got the next ones December sec 17th All right So Jonathan you're the only person that's still here that's excused Do I hear a motion to move the
December 17th minutes i'll move it Okay Second Second All in favor i I Come on Say I at least Come on January 21st The excused Randy Watts Okay
Everyone except Randy Do I hear a motion to move those minutes i'll move them for January 22nd Okay Uh do I hear a second okay All in favor i All right Good That was a good eye All right February
18th Um we've got the excused is Gary I don't Where's Where's March 4th last page I don't have March in here No Oh you had it on here Okay You had it on the agenda I had it on the agenda Oh okay That's what I thought Okay Yeah For
the last one Yes Yeah February 18th is the last one So we have February 18th You'll get the next one Okay What What was that we have February 18th right yes But we don't have the March 4th That's what I I I was confused there All right So February 18th the only excused person
was Gary Do I have someone to move that i'll move it Second Second Okay All in favor i All right We move the minutes We have a resolution too right we We could do the resolutions after the hearing Yeah let's do the resolutions after So let's get these people moving
here So uh cuz they're a little bit more complicated All righty Um Okay Uh now we are continuing your application Uh as I recall your last witness was your planner Correct And we
were pretty much done with him Correct Mr Chairman yeah we did close the questioning of the planner So I think we're at the uh Well I I just want to make sure Is there any other witnesses or any other thing that you want to I don't think the board questioned the planner did we no we did not We did not Uh I don't think we did No And you
didn't bring them did you he presented but we didn't get to question him I had questions for him and we didn't Yeah that's what I thought because I remember we didn't have time because it was 11 o'clock by the time he finished his his main testimony Going to be on
his way here shortly Okay Do have some uh testimony You can put the See where we're at Put the intro test Would you lower that mic and talk into it lower You can lower that Unscrew Unscrew the base and lower that the little thing in the middle Yeah just unscrew it and
lower it a little bit We're going to have to caution Mr Chairman if we're allowing attorneys to work equipment Yeah I know I know Let me see your certification All right Uh Richard Skoleneck from my own law firm here on behalf No I mean to operate the mic It's
okay I'm teasing it We're not going to we're not going to bladder you for that Um we're having a good you know it's always good to have a little fun Uh so okay Why don't you move ahead with your other witnesses dealing with other issues as soon as the planner gets here we'll commence with his
questioning It we're not sure but we're going to do our best for as much as we can Yeah Cuz I I I thought you realized that we really weren't done with the planner The planner was done testifying but we hadn't actually gotten any questions or things that we needed to possibly ask him All I can say chairman
is we we understood sometimes planners are very busy Yes Yes You have to make plans ahead of time with them Pun intended especially we respect the board's time Yeah We obviously and we respect your time We want it to We want it to finish
He's trying to get here That's fine I think we can see what time we can continue with your other witnesses and then slot him in when he gets here We'll do our best So chairman just for the record Richard Skollet law firm I'm representing
1057 Valley RD RV LLC Now the owner they bought the property Okay And we originally applied for contract purchases Yes They closed We were here two weeks ago Wall before daylight savings this time
we arrive in the dark Um so uh we have the architect who I'm going to recall He's going to talk about uh the changes to the signage plan Okay Was able to accommodate a number of the
items uh that uh the board had suggested uh the matting the sort of the different style uh the uh removal of the internal illumination Okay Some other things So he's going to go through uh that with you We're able to make a little bit of
movement on the overhang Okay You had that you can't remove it because it's a structural element It took a a lot of time a lot of effort And let me let me explain the reasoning behind that One it was exceedingly large Two it it it would
prohibit uh in some way snow plowing of that area and it would also inhibit prohibit a fire truck to get to that side of the building if they had to because of the because of the massive base that was on those things That that was the concern And there's less of a fire load with a bank than there is a
fast food place There there's a structural element to it We're able testimony and on profit we're able to make a little movement in that direction Okay uh to make it a little bit wider Uh but uh it cannot be removed as it's a structural element Okay we'll
go through that Okay you can be assured we took a close look at that Uh after that's over we're going to call the civil engineer We have a lot of discussion about signage um and the vehicles and uh we put forward a plan
that we sent over to Mr Jar's office His colleague uh is here tonight Okay and uh we hope that we can we've made a reasonable movement in that direction to to control uh some difficulties that could be out there So okay uh I'll go
through those two witnesses We'll try to get a check on where Mr Mcdana is Okay sounds good That's what I I fine tonight So uh Mr Rear you understand you're still under oath Steve is your practice to resquare the That
doesn't have to resquare just could reconfirm for us that your license remains in good standing so the board can continue to accept you Yes Okay If I can just I just want to clarify something you said before you start and I don't want to delay you anymore Did you say that you were under contract and now you're actually closed did that
happen in between our last meeting and now it happened before I actually sent something in I think okay between filing the application were contract purchases right with the back right
my client closed on the deal I had to Okay Yeah Before before the last hearing correct before the last Okay Send a little note in to the board to say just want to clarify That's all Absolutely All good standing Standing as a contract purchaser certain st
certainly standing as an owner Right So we're going to um pan these around Last exhibit from two weeks ago was A3 So these are going to be marked as A4 I'm just A4 and A5 Which one do you want me to mark first it doesn't matter does it
we don't care Mark that The elevation with the sign Okay A4 Okay We'll give you the date on that Take one Yes What's that thank you Yeah
Is this all the signage that's going to be on the building yes There's no I may begin I don't know if there's no there's no menu board anymore Is that correct so the menu is not on the building Can you take the microphone yeah you
need unfortunately I'm sorry when we have the one mic The menu board is a sign Right Hold on Sorry Maybe we should let him Yeah let let him testify first and then we'll
go ahead You can explain Uh is it working Deb the Uh sorry Give it to her She'll She knows She's an expert I don't know about that The damn school boy They always run the
batteries I know Damn And then I'm bring They have to be schooled They do Mr Chairman while while we're waiting uh I'm going to swear in Mr Mr because I believe Mr Jar was here last week If you'll raise your right hand Do you swear to God our firm testimony about to
give us the truth the whole truth or nothing but the truth i do Thank you very much Everybody else has already sworn Thank you Thank you for catching that Well I I thank council for catch and noting for the record that Mr Zadznney has certified that he watched the previous hearing so he's able to
eligible to vote in this area Thank you And I signed that certification All three hours All three hours Certainly made you certifiable Yeah If not sleepy All right it's working now All right it's working Well machine
So I'll continue with my testimony from last time Uh talking about the elevations So to answer the question and I'll go through the signage A4 correct this is A4 which is um
A00.3 and the revision date is uh March uh 17th 2025 and it's elevations and it's elevations plus signage of the building at the bottom of the sheet right as a heading You got it So what
we're showing is the the four elevations of the building Um the the elevation the south elevation which is the elevation uh of the um entrance from for the uh patrons of the build uh of the restaurant h still has the same cameo
which is the logo for Wendy's on top and then the north elevation facing Valley uh road still has the word Wendy's and east elevation same same thing the the logo and then the west elevation which I'm going to show you a couple of
pictures on um A5 in a second On exhibit A5 uh we replaced the word made fresh or we moved made fresh um to order closer to the um drive-thru window and replaced it with the cameo or the again the
Wendy's uh logo in this location Part of this decision is because uh and I'm going to refer to A5 is that as you're driving this is A5 is E-01 under the civil engineers title
block Yes it's 3 uh March 17 2025 and it's the revision per the hearing And on on the bottom right photo title what does it have a title on it uh exhibit site photos Exhibit site photos
Thank you Yes And at the bottom right of this exhibit you'll see the view driving south on Valley Road And this is basically one of the most exposed facads or elevations of the building There is
trees and landscaping around the building as you drive u around the building along Valley Road and along Planefield And um in a car as you're driving you're not really going to see a lot of this especially in the summertime
when when all the trees are are the leaves on the trees Um so as we look at it and we drove you know by it and looked at it on Google Earth as well this was one of the more exposed facads here and we wanted to get something on the building here to represent to say
what the building is and represent it So this is this is that view right here that we're seeing on A4 And I'm going to go back to A4 That's where you put the Wendy's That's where we put the Wendy's Let's talk about the um the internal illumination that's been Sure So yes So
um the the other thing is none of these signs are internally internally illuminated They're all going to be uh PVC routed Uh basically simple non- metallic finish very similar to what you see on Taco Bell We're trying to match
the same signage types Um They going to be lit They're going to be uplit exactly the same way that the PNC bank signs were uplit Uh we're probably going to use the same infrastructure and replace the lights Um so that they're going to
be lit the same way Um I do want to mention the the signs We tallied all the sign signage with a total now including the menu stands So we have two menu stands Um and it's also on the bottom of
A4 Bottom right you'll see a single menu board and a triple menu board elevations The triple menu board is the actual menu board that you order at And the single menu board is a precursor if you will to the menu board that has the pre-sale items As you're waiting online
you can see those and then you go up to the menu board with your car and that's where you order from So these two are of the building as well as the freestanding sign which is the monument sign on Valley Road These three signs are not on
the building Everything else that you see is on the building Where's the positioning of the single and uh triple menu boards where are they positioned along that route i'm going to refer now
to uh exhibit A6 and the title of that is exhibit plan Same revision date 31725 And this specific exhibit shows the menu boards on the on the south side
I'm sorry the uh west side of the uh building It's along Planefield So as you're driving up the drive-thru here this is where the two menu boards are So you or you come you come in from the site you drive up the drive-thru The
two menu boards are here This is where you order and then you drive around to pick up your food on this side and then leave the site So you understand where they are at now at yeah I was trying to find you had indicated the where you put the um the made fresh sign that you
moved it because you thought that the west side was the most visible side Um do you think the side on Planefield is more visible or less visible than the west side where the menu boards are right So I think those are going to be less visible
than the the west side But there's no road on the west side No there's no road but there is a gap And in the image I'm just going to go back to that One second There's a gap in the landscaping right here Yeah And as you're driving up
that's the first thing you're going to see on the building And this is sort of a long stretch of brick unidentified And it would be nice very nice to have something here to tell you what this building is Now as you go past it past this point you're already in a car It's
going to be too fast for you to to see anything here You'll see this view though coming on the other direction from on Valley Road or down Planefield Um and then the buildings be be to your right But keep in mind that these all these photos are taken with no leaves on
the tree If if for just like you know we did it simply in u Google Earth and just if you walk around in Google Earth you'll see that with all the tree canopies uh flowering and all the leaves on them This is not actually a very
simple thing to see uh when you're driving again north on Valley Road or um uh east on um Planefield playing field So you're saying for like half of the year we'll be able to see half of the year not
you you'll be able to see if you are maybe at the light right if you're stopped at the light for leaves on the tree It's just that sometimes it's going to be visible sometimes sometimes going to be visible sometimes not If you're if you're at the light stopped at the light you'll be able to take a second and look but if you're driving by it's not going to be as easy to see And this is part of
why this this long stretch here was a was a very good moment for us to put something there And we had the Made Fresh there but that wasn't um a sign that would you know you'd recognize the brand quickly uh by seeing it So you'd recognize better if to see the Wendy's
logo Thank you Up here we're still looking for EO6 You don't have that in your package That's A6 A6 the one with that you were showing me where the signs were Yeah that's this is this is a
new Okay And we don't get to see it We don't have copies for this one No but this was emailed uh on yesterday I don't know if that was I can't give them copies Okay Sure Okay All right That's that's I know where I was going I'm not
trying to find it But this is this is the same site plan as previously submitted We just added more signage just to to locate them And the menu boards did not change location They're in the same location Yeah they're the same location as last time If I may Mr Chairman are the is the square footage
of the the total square footage of all wall signs uh still 95 square ft versus 25 ft maximum permitted so no So this is this is 768 So the 178 the new total now we've
included in it the freestanding sign which is the monument sign We've also included the single menu menu board and the triple menu board That's all the signs That's all the signs that that's now that that now includes all the signs on on the building and off the building
You for the variance is one of the variances for the area of wall signs What is the total area of wall signs not freestanding and wall combined I can I can give you that 245.26 I'm sorry How 245.26
That's more than That's more than the total The total is not accommodating the 3 * 65 No it's not 3 * 65 It's It's 65 Oh in total In total Oh okay Well then so I'll tell you what that is in a second Wait till we come to a consensus
6349 We're still missing signs 11526 11526 Okay Okay So now the relief sought with respect to area wall signs 11526 versus 25 ft maximum permitted Correct
Correct Thank you Uh I I do believe if if these are all the signs that you're representing that you're going to be putting on your property You're still missing the sign that says uh no trailers uh right turn only So so that wouldn't be a wall sign That would be those are also at the freestanding but
but those so what what I'm representing today are the signs on the wall and the menu board and the monument board everything to do with the branding of the building and including non-branded signs non-branded signs and directional signage which is basically what you're referring to are on the site plan and I
don't believe those are included in the calculation or should be included in the calculation I should say but I was confused okay so uh do you have a sign that says drive-thru with an arrow to tell people where the drive-thru is starts Yes So what we have here on this
on this site plan which we're back on on A6 what we've done which is in in discussions with also the um we've met with the planner and engineer to discuss that with them Um we've taken all the comments and we've come back with
something that we think makes sense here So as you come in and and today on site when you're coming into the uh bank uh site there's a sign for PNC Bank says enter here and then on right on site there is a drive-thru sign to the that
tells you to go right or park um to go left And what we have is we do have indoor dining pickup window that tells you to go this way The sign is right here It tells you to go this way or drive-thru that tells you to go up Okay So there is a So now we yes we do have
this identifi identifier here that says if you know picking up or dining in you're going this way drive-thru you're going this way That's one thing I should one sign The other sign that we do do have is a no truck sign which is at the beginning of the site right here It says
no trucks allowed How about trailers we wanted something that said no trailers We could do that Yeah We I think they the main problem was trucks with trailers and large trucks So what we put we in putting no trucks we assumed that
this would cover buses and everything else What about a car with a trailer but so so we're happy to make it no trucks or trailers on site on premises See that we were we were concerned with the uh the ability to circumvent that to navigate the drive-thru drivethrough
with a trailer which could be on a car Right So you know that's why uh we can certainly give an end to the lot where a trailer does not Yeah exactly Exactly Yeah So yeah you have to change that to trailer And I and I also want to mention as I'm going through this so there's the
there's the crash bar here also which is at 9 ft Okay And on the crash bar there's a sign that says no oversized vehicles beyond this point Right So that's okay I mean trailers can be smaller but they they and that's why I'm happy to to amend the no trucks allowed
to say no trucks or trailers allowed on premises Sounds good We can do that We're we're uh certainly aware of the board's concerns Yeah Well it's not just our concern It's that we don't want a problem in the future with people getting jammed up in a parking lot or getting stuck in the drive-through lane
I think this is why we have these boards because you bring the local concern about the focus Well it's also the uh you know the the just the the way the lot is configured the configuration of that and and today there is a one-way sign right here pointing in the
direction of the drive-thru and that sign will remain there The do not enter on here will remain here There's a stop sign which will be here which will also remain good The uh the stop bar is right here and
that uh is marked And then we're also marking the crosswalk right here at 5t for people parking on this side to cross as agreed Also there's a proposed 5-ft sidewalk right here Concrete sidewalk for the uh accessible spaces As you park
you get on there and you walk up Anyone else see this chairman what we would think again the board is immenable This is a proposal and often there's a condition the exact wording right i know Of course Of
course Exactly Yes I don't think there would be but if there's a dispute we can't agree Obviously we we don't we don't whether it's trucks or trailers or what's appropriate I we understand that we're going to allow our planner and engineer respectively to work out minor
little details That's fine We always do that Intent We put it out there Here's a starting point No no we understand that We don't make you come back for a little change in wording We want to make the site safe also It it needs to be safe and operate And you brought a global
concern that there are going to be some local landscapers who could either park somewhere else or or be disappointed they're not going to get their way I know Yeah I got to find another spot to park and get over here Yeah Whoops
But I cut you off there were going through This is obviously a more robust signage package and there's uh obviously flexibility to to finalize it Absolutely Absolutely Is is there if
there's flexibility is there any I'm sorry Go ahead Let's please If there's flexibility is there any possibility of not having um two menu boards or any menu boards for a drive-thru you would require a menu board Now how would people know what to order yeah Well the what use the
app I mean the the menu boards um are right on Planefield Road so and they're going to be visible I mean I mean we're happy we're happy to So what we what we did is also we're adding landscaping here These are all shrubs that are proposed along this frontage here And
we're happy to have taller plants if that's a concern That that shouldn't be a problem Well yeah I have a concern on how visible the menu boards are That's why I asked if they could be eliminated If you're flexible it's it's part of the functionality of the building This is how drive-thru Wendy's works that don't
have menu boards There are restaurants that don't have menu boards right i'm I'm sure there are but I know that Wendy's has menu boards for drive-thru What is it could have it could be a restaurant No I understand What is the reason for two menu boards one is the one is a pre-sale that just shows you
the offers that they have and this next one is where you actually order So as you're waiting they have special offers or they have new menu new menu u um elements or pieces on the menu They'll show that And then the next one is where you're looking at everything on the menu and you're ordering Will they be angled
or can they be angled in such a way that they're ideally optimally visible to those who are on site but not necessarily those who are on Planefield Road the traversing motor vehic motor vehicle public I mean I mean they will be angled um to to for for the people in
the drive-thru But I understand the concern Think that's possible But I understand the concern Even if they're angled you're still going to see them if you're up uh on playing field if there is no landscaping And that's why I'm suggesting we can have taller plantings here So to on this along this area to
hide that if that's a concern we already have a condition of we already have a condition of additional landscaping So are you stipulating also the supplemental landscaping for the purpose of within screening the menu board
subject to the review of our planner and engine well planner probably but yes I am How tall are the menu boards yes the menu boards are 5T 6 and 1/2 ft or 6 ft Six feet Would
the screen be 6 feet then are you what what's the width height of the 6 ft is what that I'm referring back to exhibit A4 on the bottom right of the exhibit It shows it's the the main menu board the
triple board is 7 ft wide by 6 ft tall And the the single menu board which is the precursor is 2'4 in wide by again 6 ft tall And are these electronic are they that lit how are they They're electronic So the screen itself is is
lit It's like a TV Exactly sir Yeah Oh no And what happens with those after hours are they turned off yeah they are Can they be uh not back lit it it's a TV so it's not really back
lit It's it's it's illuminated within the system The other signs on the building were previously you know internally illuminated and you came back with a revision because you heard our concerns Correct So I think you're hearing other concerns about the lighting of the menu boards So why
couldn't they be Because it that's a TV If you don't illuminate it it's just turned off The other signs were signs that were on on the building internally Those we could replace And and if I may that's the same exact condition at at Taco Bell right now The signs on the
building are all externally illuminated They're not internally anymore I'm just going to make a statement right now Yes sir Taco Bell was approved as not a precedent setter Okay So you guys keep referring to that and I take exception to that because your planner did it
20ome times and I'm not telling you not to do it but that's a different spot Okay It's tucked back in It's off the road You can't see the menu boards can you this is a very prominent spot that we're talking about on on two main roads in our town that intersect in an
evolving town square town center Okay So that's an emerging town center that we're that we're planning for the future So the conditions are a lot different So there's no comparison really in my eyes anyway Sure No I understand And I'm not I'm not setting
a precedent by saying they have a menu board so you should allow No that's not what I'm saying What I'm explaining is basically just giving you a reference to what the menu board looks like versus uh you know the rest signage on the building because we're talking about internally illuminated versus externally illuminated So all the signs on the
building will be externally illuminated So they're not you know if you turn off the the lights they're not really visible anymore But the menu board is a TV basically So if there's no illumination it's off So then you won't be able to see anything on it That's
that's the Yeah And that's what that's the reference I'm making Of course Yeah Uh because you know I understand the concern visibility It's not meant to be an advertisement No not certainly not Yes Can you talk about where we could do
a a tree line a substantial tree line to at least address that we could certainly plant trees that are six feet tall So So we do Yeah Where where is that and would we have a reasonable amount of screening uh for that to address the board's concern about how that's going to look
at the primary intersect sure Sure Sure Certainly So so to mention we are adding nine So there's eight here and then one more nine um two to three feet high basically shrubs but we are able to add in this location here because this is
where I think you would see it driving up playing field in this location we can turn these into taller trees if that reflection if that's the the concern here we can certainly do that Yeah We could we work uh either you know at some point in terms of the spacing of the
trees to make sure of course that after a year or two they sort of run together looks a little certainly yes there's no intent here to use this as another means of advertising absolutely not correct it's only for the functionality of what what
the the use is that's all it is so do you think at the end you know at least plant six to eight footers and then discuss what what's going to be a reasonable size and and I can I can yeah and I can I can also say that we can work with the planner engineer on
the location of those we can pick you know two locations which I think is probably here and maybe here as you're driving up that line of sight and we can plant taller trees in those locations to to shield that view for for all 12 months or just for six of them or would
they be evergreens or would they be trees that don't have We're open we're open to both we could do something where you can have them I mean yeah I'm I'm happy to We understand the concern and we don't want to accommodate There's no Why concern is why is it the need for
two boards why do you need one to say you have specials and one for the menu can't the menu board serve as both give me one sec I want to start especially ones No the
drive can't see it Right Yes So I just wanted to understand a little bit from the oper operation team what it does So there's two things here Listen There are two things here There it's it's part of saving time also on the drive-thru because you're seeing
what you want to order in advance And u the other thing is send that with the menu board But why do you need two but that that was the second part But again as in discussion with them we're happy to remove the first one if that's something that's going to I would say the impact I mean how does everybody
think if we move at least yeah the lesser the better right okay that's that's what I was basically asking if if we can still function that's the question I was asking if it can still function let's make that that one board dual purpose by having part of it flash a different message you know I think
yeah that's that's why I was asking the question if we can still function using the triple I I know exactly what you mean like maybe rotation on the screen or something of the different if as long as we can make it work with the function of it That's not a problem In fact it might might help the flow because
somebody's not stopping to read a first board and you know they're they're moving Yeah It's it's usually only when you're online if there's if there's you know during peak hours when you're actually waiting that's when you look at it But if you're on there and it's there's no person you know there's nobody you're not going to stop there You're going on a rap or they already
know what they want I I don't disagree I mean nowadays everybody's got pre-ordered Uh I mean it's also Yeah You also know if you go to Wendy's you also kind of know what you want Unless you're getting something different this time I'm sorry Every time you That's okay Mr Amra Yes Um do they have the ability to
put some sort of screen maybe over the menu boards like a uh like above it this way like a canopy or something So what I'm thinking is like traffic lights that you can't really see unless you're like at specific angle or like a cell phone security screen like a clear filter type
thing I I don't know the answer to that question but this is something that we can work with the team because that way if you're driving to my knowledge most television screens have that ability already or there if you go and look at a side of a a flat screen TV you almost can't see the picture So most of I I
would say that even without trying you're going to have that effect I mean I'm I'm aware of I'm aware of like just Yeah you get what I'm trying to I get what you're trying to say I also understand you know your point as well which is why I'm working Sure I get it
At the end of the day the point is it's not about when you're there what you're looking at It's about when you're on the street if it's something reflect which is why I'm saying that the trees and if we could do something with the size of the boards where it's not you know if the illumination isn't going to the sides or the top or something like that
Certainly Yes Sure Yeah And that way you know maybe you guys get what you want and then you won't see the signs as prevalent Well the one sign now we're down to one sign But um the uh the nice thing about I mean I'm sure with the working on the
angle and some uh you know uh blinders I guess or some way of of keeping that illumination closer to the location where the people see it Yes Yes The concern is what spills out over the property line basically Certainly Yes And part of that is lighting part of
that is the signage Part of that is just the presence of the building keeping it mostly between you know on your premises are it's even even I I understand that even less than just you don't even want it to go all the way to the property line which I also understand like you want it to be within the vicinity where
you're ordering and that's what you're saying anything within that property we try to keep most most people that commercial properties we try to keep it within contained within the property so it doesn't illuminate or doesn't affect outside the property We're going to take a break at some point So we'll talk to
the operator see if we have that ready solution here for you too That's right I mean I think something like that you could work with the engineer I mean you know our our appreciate that every board is different Yes Um you know we we have great faith in our experts We appreciate that Doesn't always happen I have
another question This is about the audio in that ordering system right what about that and how far does that sound Carrie we yeah I testified to that also in last meeting I I certainly understand the volume concern We will comply with the
city's u uh volume and it won't be exceeding anything outside You won't be it's basically made just for the person in the car to hear the menu Uh the person inside speak and pretty much the speaker is next to the car Basically the speaker is is in is basically within the
menu board Well that's going to be close enough to the car It's Yeah I mean exactly Mr Have you been to the McDonald's on 22 in Scotch Queens i think like I think when I was like eight or nine years old is the last time I'm not kidding That's about 10 years
high school I'm sorry That that has what the chairman referred to The speaker really comes right close to your window Okay To to make it So I would assume I don't for sure but they we're thinking about that Yeah Good That's great You're
in your car and the window goes down and the speaker is really about two feet away coming So you don't need a loud speaker Don't worry McDonald's on 22 That sounds Yeah I'll go check it out I never stop No of course not I'm not
joking It's been I was last I was there was high school I I lost That's an old McDonald's That's been a while And I'm not I'm saying from my point of view too I got a couple of questions on the on the signage Going back to the signs So
the one directional sign um the one no the the one two up there the directional Yeah Is that a Wendy's logo on the top of it yes Is that cons not considered you we that's a sign then no I don't believe so I believe this is just a direction What is that the
Wendy's What does that sign say i can't read it from here Yeah Indoor dining and pickup window And then under and it points up and then it points to the right and it says drive-thru And this would be this is there's a sign there used to be a sign for the bank that says
you know um did the bank sign bank logo on it yes Or it's it had it had the I know the first one had the logo The second one had the same colors and um and font but on it Yes But my point my main point is is not about whether the
logo is on it or not I'm saying it's the location here and as soon as you enter the site it points this way to go to drive-thru or that way for pickup And uh question and I'm not saying you shouldn't I'm just saying is and I'll ask our professionals do those do those qualify as signs if they have the logo
on it and do they need to be counted or not it's a good question and I um I have to say the directional signage doesn't count towards the total site signage so long as there's no advertising on the sign like just having Wendy's face on it
So is is the Wendy's face an advertisement you might find that it is I mean yes maybe that you could I mean the fact that you and again I'm not saying this because I haven't feeling that you shouldn't have that there but you did say you wanted to put the Wendy's logo on the uh west side in a
prominent place and that logo is the exact same logo that's on the other signs So it's obviously the brand and we all know that's I don't I don't disagree It's the brand but I I believe that this one you won't it won't be visible from outside the property You're only going to see it if you're on the property and it's really just for the experience on
the property It's it's I for me and I'm not saying you shouldn't have it there I'm just saying just to be but maybe to be safe that shouldn't be included in the number for the varian And if and if that's sure we can that's something that we can just to cover yourself or maybe if it's possible you can take the the
cameo and just use the the the say the same just to color your colors So similar to like with as you said the PNC signs are all the PNC colors colors and and font and we can use the same font and colors but remove the actual uh the logo There you go Yes I hope you
understand our good thing Oh no we do We do know if you're the board says hey really bad idea I'm going to let it actually save a little money because the sign will be more neutral And I'm not trying to say I don't appreciate in terms of and I I
understand and and like and like just as the planner said Miss Laney said it's a good question Um and then my my second question is I know I I I mentioned that there's just giving me a I did I did mention the first one had the PNC logo but the second one had the font in it
But but no no I I explained it But the point is well taken regardless Yeah Regardless of what it is the point is now you're adding more logos inside Can we just eliminate those and deal with the directional as just directionals and the answer is yes We can certainly do that basically Yeah And the answer is
yes Certainly because the point of it is to tell you where to go and what to do and not really to look at Wendy's face again Exactly Am I add we're sensing more about where we want Okay Good And no more Yeah Okay Sounds good And my my second question on
the west elevation I remember last time you'd mentioned I I know I know there is a current existing window I guess it's EW1 on there Um on the west elevation what's that window going to be used for it's going to it's going to remain That's not going to change What's it going to be used for in terms of the
It's just for for light and air That's it In within the space But does that look into the kitchen or what is that it looks into the serving area Not exactly the kitchen Yeah But it's not like a for a pay window or anything No no no no The the only window which is this on the the
pickup window from for the drive-thru and the other pickup window which is right here for the mobile pickup orders Gotcha Those are the only orders where people will be interacting with Do do we have a and I'm presuming it's
not going to change any further but uh do we have a confirmation now on five total wall signs still we have as I I was mentioning before we have the one one two three four five and then if
we're considering the delivery pickup order on top of the window assigned then that's six Okay Six That six made the 115 Yes Okay So then we're now that's another the variance that was five wall signs versus one is now six versus six
and 115.2.6 We still have only one ground sign We're not counting direction when what we were counting if they're taking the logos and making them just the actual sign It says Wendy's It's still only one ground sign Is that correct that's
correct So messages and the area of the ground sign Well so that depends So yes we have the monument sign right that's on valley And then we have the menu boards right menu boards Menu boards are the menu board Menu board Menu board
Singular Singular Menu board is a triple sign Correct Triple menu Correct So now we have the triple Exactly Our professionals interpretation I want to get Can you just hold on a second i would say it's while while our board professional is a
planner excuse me is is looking into whether we have one ground sign or two Uh we'll also have to confirm the area of the ground sign so we have the right right so I will have to yeah because the calculation included the single menu board which we've just agreed to eliminate and then there's the
freestanding which is this one which is what we had last time and I believe my looking at whether the triple menu board is a sign or not and that's that's that's the discussion right now whether it's two or one number and the area in a moment yes uh and then uh wall sign
illumination has been eliminated as a deviation Correct Correct Thank you And appearance of signed carve sand blasted wood etc That's still a deviation that's being sought It's it's no longer a deviation We're not doing the metallic
finish It we will be doing a matte finish um which is going to be basically a plastic matte finish Yeah that's what I mentioned Liz I know you're doing double duty while you're looking at the number and the signs to make that determination but have they eliminated the need for the appearance of signs
variance in your opinion sorry Can you appear of the appearance of sign variants requiring that it be carved or sandlasted painted wood or foam that appears to be etc etc uh is that still
an issue or because they're matting it and what have you have they eliminated the appearance of sign variance required i think that they have Yes they have eliminated They have eliminated it They've made an effort to to comply Okay How is that sign being lit is it
gooseeneck lights how is it being lit under lit Under lit Meaning light lights going up So not from the ground There's there's light lights right now on the bank Oh no The ground light The ground sign Yes Yes Ground up Yes Lines Lights
from the ground pointing up at the sign The only problem I have with that is that's sometimes blinding to drivers Uh have you seen the getting Excuse me I'm going to mention Taco Bell but they have the goose the goose neck lights that
actually shine down onto the sign instead of up What's good for the gooseeneck is good for the gander But I'm just saying sometimes these lights that go from the ground up can can act as a blinding or can be a little blinding And I I understand the concern
Yes we can look at always illuminate the sign as well Sometimes if you have it coming from the top and going around and and just like it's directed exactly at the sign versus ground up which could flare on the sides of it and and create a reflection and a glare Yes Change that
is that it changes Okay Yes All right So we literally I have to I have to mention though that that change I this menu board sign exact shape of it will probably change a little bit because I have to have a space to mount the gooseeneck But that Yes But the I'm not talking about the menu board I'm talking
about the window No you're talking about this one You're talking about the freestanding sign the monument sign that's on Valley Road Correct That's that's what I'm referring to And it's fall signs that require lighting have down lit lighting Is that right so or are there others that will have up lighting let let me let me clarify this
point for everyone So I'm I'm on the same page All the signs on the building will have external lights and they're coming off the building up to the signs Oh right Yes the M monument sign which is on the uh on the lawn uh facing
Valley Road currently is being um uplit and what the chairman is asking if we can do a different method of lighting which will do down lighting uh via like gooseeneck fixture and I'm agreeing to that but I'm just saying that the exact shape of what you're looking at today
may change a little bit because we would have to look at where to mount those lights the up lighting on the uplighting on the building is not coming from Yes there's up lighting on the building but it's not coming from the ground up It's basically right under the sign Okay Now
is there something above the sign itself an overhang on the roof or something to prevent spillage into the sky there is not an over there is there's the typical overhang of a gable roof of four to six inches but there's not a that is an overhang That is an overhang Yes but
it's noting be redirected to be down lighting as well Um I don't I don't see a reason why not The only one that I'm just That's why I was turned around and looking at it is as
you're driving Yeah as the chairman was talking about before lighting is one of those things and that's why he's recommending No I I agree But those those uplights are very close to the to the building and they're on you know they're right under here
Yeah So we're trying our residents that live on the hill that's just not too far from here and they don't may not want to see all this commercial lighting at night So that's Yes Yes I I understand and and I understand Where would you mount if we
wanted the lights above the Wendy and the face signs above above the Wendy's is is easier because we're have like two or three here And that would be shining coming and shining directly back on It would be coming and shining directly back at the side That would probably be better It would keep it It would keep it
more We would do it certainly for these And the one on the building is not lit right the one on the building The face on the building is not lit This is lit through these lights again onto the What lights are lighting that we have uh vertical basically sconces here that are
just directed at this light Oh that died again The mic died again Okay we have can while can I answer Steve's question about the science so I usually run out I just want to say that typically this is
a use variance right for a drive-thru And so a menu board sign is usually its own type of sign And of course we don't have a definition because we don't permit this use right obviously right so I think the closest it could come to would be a monument sign or a ground
sign Um because we really don't have a definition for any board So in the umbrella of signage I think it would fall under a ground sign We're going to I mean we're going to conclude that this is two ground signs I guess you could say two ground signs for variances or
it's it's a type of sign that we don't just finish this up I just it's a heck of an effort just to get the variances Yeah Uh and it shouldn't be the the the uh the area of then the ground signs uh is also a deviation that
from which they're seeking relief Um is it now a different number than the original 240 square ft and if so what is the new number all right The second the the any of the ground signs which includes the triple menu board We're
including it Yeah And the freestanding monument sign is 53.7 square ft I'm sorry That's the total of all That's the total of the two ground signs which is which is the triple menu board which is the triple menu board and the
freestanding I'm sorry I had to I misread it It was 24 square ft That was Yeah I was going to say it was never 240 but now it is how much again 53.57 ft Had to go up Okay 53.57 square ft for the area ground Okay
Now we have our variances We have our score part this application Thank you Can I I just wanted to clarify this though uh because I don't remember and I don't I know we're not a precedent setting board No board is a president and no case sets a precedent under the
municipal but that being said since there is no existing anything about these types of signs about trip menu board say for example if we treated another menu board differently does that not set a precedent or No No no there's
Okay More professionals will ensure consistency uh and so that's what I was asking Were we are we being consistent with every every site's different Every site has its own uh Well no I mean if the Taco Bell The Taco Bell clearly has a menu board there I don't
recall that being considered I mean maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall us considering that a I don't believe we had the discussion over the menu board on that application constituting part of that signage We did not Yeah Okay I'm
just My recollection was we saw it incidental to the part of the But I mean we live and learn Sometimes we don't realize that maybe we should have Can I ask a question about the monument board i'm right after you Yeah go ahead The one out front conservative You said it
faced Valley Road Does it face Valley Road or does it go It's perpendicular on Valley Road So what is the distance what is the distance of that monument board that a monument sign that has a Wendy's face logo on it the name Wendy's
The one you're asking about the the Are you asking i'm sorry Chairman We didn't Does it have the You mean the one i haven't even gotten to say it yet so that's why it's not clear right go ahead Okay So the freestanding sign the monument sign it has a Wendy's name
on it and it has the Wendy's logo on it Correct Yes And it's not facing Valley Road It's perpendicular Correct So my question is how far is that sign from the sign that's on the side that you replace the made fresh with the Wendy's logo was the distance from that one
Wendy's logo that is facing the same direction perpendicular to Valley Road as the one that's on the sign That's one that's a monument If they're 10 feet apart if they're 20 feet apart are they 3 feet apart we seen a Wendy logo Wendy's logo They're over 50 feet apart
They're over 50 feet apart Okay Would you eliminate the one on the building i mean sure I I'd like to have the discussion with you because as I was showing this this one is really a long blank
brick uh uh facade As you're driving up I I believe this is a good opportunity to put something there There's a sign 50 ft away that says Wendy's and has a logo on it Right Which in in this view you could see it This is the uh existing one
And when this is when when there's trees here and uh leaves on it driving down you may miss this easily I don't think you're going to miss it It's going to be lit up There's another Wendy's logo above it I think you've got uh more than
enough signs on this building We made that That's why the variance the numbers keep climbing and you keep adding up the square footage of the signs So it sounds like you're willing to work with us and I'm just wondering if this one sign on the building would be something that you eliminate since you already have one facing in the same direction just 50
feet away We hold that to the end Sure Try to put it all together Yeah Okay We'll take a break We're gonna you know this application is not going to rise or fall on We're gonna we're going to work out an accommodation
Take a break that Sure No problem A little more movement is needed Yeah Let me ask you a question Uh you pointed it out and uh I'm I'm taking a look at
at A4 and you spoke that there's going to be two uh vertical lights They're they're denoted as EL1 It's not in any of your um your your key guides I I can't find it How much light is supposed to be
coming from those two lights that we have not yet spoke about this is supposed to be very very minimal just to shine on this uh side So it's not like a neon No no no It's not vertical I'm I'm sorry It doesn't throw u to the front of
it It's to the side and it only goes to one side which is this here So so they're they're basically both like a wash on the They're wall wash lights that go to the side Exactly Thank you Any other questions for this witness does our experts have any questions for
this witness was this if I may Mr Chair was this witness going to also address the overhang or was that another witness no No Well let let's stick with the science first Are there any questions from our experts about the science issue i do actually have one question just to
add to the confusion The pickup door pickup window door has what looks like French fries on sign What what was that do you see on the south elevation next That's the door itself
You're talking about the door itself Yeah There's some sort of design on it I guess Oh right here Yeah Yes Which door yes This door open The door itself Oh that's so right So what is what is is that door it's usually just like a tint on the door Oh but it's French fries I
honestly don't know if it's French fries or French fries It is Okay It's ex It's French fries French fries Okay So I just to bring that be at a certain point for me everything looks like French fries Well that's a good catch That's
tremendous Like those murals Um wow That's a good catch Liz Uh I don't know how the board feels about that That this just if they're No thank you for pointing that out If you're being amunable is it is it better unfrench French fry those we can unfrench French fry the doors I'll put
that in as um All right Are are we aside from that Wendy's sign on the side uh of the building which Gary brought up very astutely uh can we move on with the from the signs and go to the next issue okay
Go ahead So the you had raised a concern about would you do something yes To lessen the impact of that to make the pass through a little bit better Yes A little bit more Correct So so we we heard you loud and
clear We went back and looked at this and and this is why we have these exhibits here And I want to talk about the clearance also and the structure of it So and that's A5 again Correct That is A5 again Correct exhibit site photos And I do want to mention the
first thing is the the clearance at this um vertically is 11'1 and horizontally it's got the two lanes and the median in the middle which where the columns are at that hold up the roof This roof is a mansered roof and as you can see in this exhibit it
has the and you can look at the bottom left one also it has the rooftop unit which is the mechanical system for the uh the the building Now this is the only flat roof that actually has u space for a mechanical system for exhaust fans to
be on the building in in discussions about this we looked at this We looked at the structure and the truth of the matter is for us to to remove this we would be reframing the entire roof basically because it's it's running in this direction And we do believe that the roof line here is appropriate to the
building design and the the location of the building and how it looks So we are we have looked at this as much as we would like to eliminate it because that's our intention as well Uh what we are coming back with is um and you can see this uh if I go back
to A4 we have the two columns with the uh brick uh base and and those are existing columns with brick bases and and a concrete median And what we're proposing
is removing the brick bases um basically um making the size of the ba of the column So so the column itself is is a structural column that's within all of this you know decorative decorative elements the base and and
also the uh metal enclosure above So we're going to get down to the column see exactly what it is remove the brick base and as as tight as possible we'll put ballards on either side of the columns to protect the columns and shrink the median so it's exactly the
same size basically of the ballards and the column so it would come down from about maybe 32 34 in in terms of the median to possibly 25 or so 26 in would be an improvement because that would avoid people hitting it avoid uh give you a wider throughact it would be less
obstructive to the So I think the suggestions we're making would would be somewhere between I was I was more concerned with those ballots coming down the roof overhead is is ground is clearance but you you are warning people of that when they correct uh my concern
was those that big large brick base did not seem to serve any purpose correct other than obstruction and and and you're right about the clearance the clearance is 111 but the crash bar that we're proposing in the beginning is 9 ft so you wouldn't get past that to to that point So the roof would stay in place as
you said but but the base we are looking at it We just drove by it today also again to look at it again I got out and took some measurements and I think we're able to remove to eliminate the brick bases slim down the columns to whatever the structure is I'm assuming the structure is about 10 in by 10 in
something like that So whatever it is to for us to cover it up look nice Yeah Make it look nice still you know um in harmony with the rest of the building the architecture in the building shrink the median so it's it's more comfortable getting around there and putting ballards on either side to protect the
columns versus the brick which was used to basically be um an aesthetic uh preferred aesthetic but also a protection for the base of the column and the bank had less traffic going through there if if I may chairman if you can just confirm that there'll be some sort of a
curb or something separating the wheel path from the column itself I know you said you wanted to shrink it up but I still think there needs to be 6 in or so a curb you know a curb or something I don't want a car hugging the curb line and taking its mirror off No No True
True So there will be a little bit of an overhang Correct There is an existing curb against the building which will remain and there is existing curb um in that median which we're just proposing to shrink So right now it's about maybe 4 in outside of the brick base So
eliminating the brick base shrinking everything down the median the brick will remain It would just shrink with you know the entire system We think we're going to be able to get it between 8 to 12 in somewhere on both sides Yeah I think that would free up that area for a lot of different vehicles that might
have to go through there As I said as long as there's a curb or something to prevent if somebody's hugging the the line they won't hit the column with the with their mirror compliance set of plans or you think in the construction
drawings We can we can we can put that we can put that in just in plan in the compliance and then in the construction level we would show the detail for it Okay Everybody uh like that idea just so I'm clear you think it'll be it'll be in the area of 8 to uh 8 to 12
in on both sides you said correct 8 to 12 in on both sides saved so to speak Yes Reduced save Yeah All right That's that that was my main concern because uh the brick albeit look aesthetic it was really not functional It really took up
a lot of your space that you could use for drive-thru and people go you know feel comfortable about going around it No I mean we have cars too so I totally understand going through it is not is not a I think it would help your you know
the on the trucks out of there Right Yes Yeah but you have big cars nowadays too Yeah And and the ballards are not there to like that's not going to to your point it's it's preventative right we don't want people to get to that point So that's why the curb has to stay That
warns you if the wheel hits it and the curb's fine Yeah that's that's fine That's a good thing All right Was that it then for this witness just going to be I technically also I mean do you still I kind of covered Adam's scope
also So Yeah Yeah Unless there's something specific about you know civil I don't know how to answer One second We have the audience Um our experts have any more questions of this expert as far as the ballots anything Okay Uh any member of the public yes Come on Would
you please give hand him the mic the public please One of these days we're going to get a second mic right if we can afford it Charles with Millington There's been a lot of discussion on the variance for the square footage of the sign The
attorney said we were at 11526 We got rid of one of the menu boards My calculation is 13.98 So is the variance now for the square foot of the signage at 101.28 or am I miscalculating we didn't commit to that Miscalculating
Take a break So there also the venue board was was not a wall Oh but there was an issue with was what might be a wall sign There are two two separate calculations of square footage One on the wall signs and one on
the ground signs Right So the wall signs were at 11526 Mhm Subject to still the discussion And the ground signs were at 20 53.57 for the Son Valley and the triple
menu sign Exactly There's no further discussion because they got rid of the other menu board right already and we took that out Yeah So my question is that 115 26 does that get reduced by the one menu sign no that's the building
mounted signage Oh okay Already taken off to get to the 53 Okay Thank you very much The 115 may change depending because there's an issue with the wall sign still 115 is the wall right 53 is the ground
Any other questions for this uh the wall sign so you know I know that you guys are going to huddle up and talk about the sign uh that's illuminated on the building and it's you know it's not just the square footage it's the number of signs that is a variable because there's there's a lot of restaurants out there
that have one sign right so what is the number of signs i know you went through the square footage The number six wall that may become five What is the norm what would be ordinance one match permitted one okay So they're five times that or six times that right now Right
So I mean if if you know if that doesn't make sense then maybe eliminating some of the Wendy's signs that are lit up in the top part of the roof would be an option You could eliminate two of those instead of the one on the side of the building You guys will talk about that I
suppose we will Yes Um is there any other member of the public out there that needs that has the question that wants the question okay Uh hearing none I close the portion of the meeting to the uh public Any other witnesses that you want to do before you take a break no Okay Mr Chairman do you want to do
the resolutions while they're breaking we could be efficient that way No No All right Uh we're not 10 minutes Would 10 minutes be enough nice try No Give somebody a break here Okay I know We can do this sort of like a we can sort of drive through
We're back on back in session at 9:05 Chairman thank you You're welcome We're going to tag team a little bit with Andrew Maloo Okay I hope I pronounce his name Mayu And what's his official he's the director of development at the
franchise Fine Okay And and he's sworn in He's He's not sworn Oh we have to swear in I thought he was a new face Okay Mr Mayor please raise your right hand Do you swear to God or affirm testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth or nothing but the truth yes
I do Thank you And uh again your name and if you could spell your name please for the record as well as your address Business address is fine Sure Uh my name is spelled Andrew A N D R A W Mayu M A I L L O U X The business address is 163
Washington Valley Road Warren New Jersey And your current uh title and job responsibilities current title is director of development I'm in charge of directing the development You're in charge
of and you're not testifying really as an expert right now but uh you do have a license and you've testified Can you just tell the board i am not testifying as a professional but I am a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey and New York I've testified before boards in
New Jersey before And you're using your knowledge to apply it to the functioning of the Wendy's Yes You heard the testimony when we were here two weeks ago and the discussions and you heard the board's concerns about the number of signs and locations and from the operator's perspective from the
operator's perspective could you talk about what we talked about in terms of where we could pair back a little bit and why you'd like to keep that one yes Um so what we're effectively proposing here is one wall sign per building phase
Um and we think that that's except for on this facade we have two Um and so we understand the concern about number of signs not just the square footage of signs We do think that this one is very important for brand
recognition as you're driving eastbound eastbound on Valley Road Um I had discussed earlier with the team that this foliage or these trees when they are uh fully in bloom um really do
obscure the visibility of the monument sign as you're traveling this direction on on Valley Road So we do think that the sign on the building here is um appropriate and uh necessary important
for the recognition of the restaurant as you're driving that direction The monument sign uh coming in the other direction is really uh to aid in the recognition of the structure coming the other way It is not as obstructed by
vegetation trees and that type of thing So you are able to eliminate the one sign that one Yes Can you show us so this is what we discussed during the break We discussed during the break that we would
eliminate one of the wall mounted signs Uh which would reduce the number of wall-mounted signs to one per building face um not including this delivery pickup
which I don't think we had discussed as as a branded sign as a branded sign Uh this is really forformational purposes only It doesn't serve to reinforce the brand Um so we are prepared to eliminate
the made fresh order signage off of this facade because we do feel that this is the much more critical sign on that face I'm sorry We had six wall signs though Uh but now you're saying five or four Well it depends how you look at it Sorry
And that that uh pickup is part of the part of the signs It is one of them Right So we're going from six to five correct okay And uh and that's okay because I got a scorecard And the uh and uh that's going to take off how much
square footage for that made to fresh once it's moved going to bring our 115 to26 down to it will reduce that by 18.48 square feet So our calculators are burning
There we go 90 would that be 96.78 and it's the I have help that is and the fifth sign is is ball it just says it's it's just lettering that says delivery pickup Okay
So it's four plus the delivery Whether you call that a wall sign that's correct We're we're recognizing it as a miscellaneous No No Almost sign It either is or it isn't It's four branded signs plus
oneformational sign 96.78 square ft Five And Andrew we talked about this a little bit Um signage is one of those tough things about zoning Obviously you and your your company are uh are in the retail business and you're making a
multi-million dollar investment That's correct In the building the buildout the operations um retailers like to have reasonable science Yes we appreciate that that's it's a balance within the community but as as a
retailer who's investing in the community who's who's taken a closed bank branch as we would like to have as we've discussed previously the architecture of this building does not scream Wendy's hamburgers and fries Um and we think
that the signage is very important for recognizing that that is what the structure is Um and that's critical to the operation of the restaurant I uh I know the board's going to consider that uh as part of looking at everything on this platform Okay So
there's a concern about the when you're coming um eastbound eastbound on valley that the m the single monument sign is if you didn't have this one on that facing wall that could be obstructed for
some of the year and and that's really for certainly for a a drive-thru restaurant that's not a lot of signs Yes In your experience that's correct That's correct That's I think that's the best understanding U but but there's but there's restaurants
out there that have just one sign that are very successful How do you explain the success of your restaurant being dependent on more than one sign the restaurant that you're describing may be
a not a franchise restaurant It may rely on reviews and people already knowing that it's there So one of the important parts about quicks service restaurant is recognition as you're driving by That's where a lot of the customers come from
Um where the moment stopping Exactly And if the monument sign is obstructed why don't you just lose that one then because it's visible westbound So so that way So is the sign that's facing on the west side of the building
That one right there Visible No you're talking you're talking about this one or which one are you talking about on every side of the building right there's You have one out front which is the monument sign Correct Yeah But there is foliage That's what we're There's restaurants out there that don't have signs on every
side of their building and they have one sign Correct And and I think part of the one of the points that Andrew was making was if this was a groundup Wendy's with Wendy's colors Wendy's materials reducing the signage would probably be not a bad idea because you still
recognize the architecture You still recognize the colors of the building You understand what that is But looking at a an older bank building that's been converted into a Wendy's you do need to to have some element of recognition for the brand vice you know versus a
building or an Italian restaurant that has different architecture and only one sign in it and maybe a sign to bring you in enter or exit I was just looking at pictures of the Short Hills Wendy's which doesn't look like a Wendy's building They all look different And to your point about taking the building down that's what was done So you didn't
come to us with like we're taking this down and putting a new building as was done on that other place that we're not really comparing ourselves to Right So one other point I wanted to make about this building in particular is the Wendy's prototype Uh it's called a
global next generation building It has a specific orientation It's intended to face forward and on the side This particular building here is visible from all four sides We would have loved if the front of the building you could have
entered the through the front on valley Um but that just is not the way that the lot is configured Um I I appreciate that and you probably have marketing geniuses Jerry could you speak a little more into the mic sure I
I appreciate what you're saying and you probably have some very astute marketing people on your payroll that tell you exactly where the signs should be and how many should there should be and how big they should be right but you're asking for signage that's literally five times the amount that's allowed on on a business property in our town It's five
times the square footage and also five times the number Um so there's got to be something that we can do here because um if you drive in some other towns that have similar sign ordinances you may see a restaurant whether it's fast food or just another you know tavern type
establishment and they do very well with their downlit sign It's a wooden sign and it's on the wand Everybody knows it's there We don't need to tattoo the building like in every every single angle to understand that it's a Wendy's So many people are going to find out this is a Wendy's from your your app
right that's how the world trades these days That's what you guys testified to right and more more of your customers use the app So people driving by they're going to see that sign on Valley Road That will be seen So So we're we're just asking you really
to try to work with us and respect what we're doing here This is a very prominent spot in our town I don't think with every suggestion that we got from your staff and last yes to the extent we can Yeah I understand that Including
change the type of science and go to the mad sign right but you shouldn't even have brought that other stuff in here You should know that I mean that you shouldn't even do especially since you looked at Taco Bell Um guys um I think what we should do at this point let's
take a poll of the board and determine whether the board would be happy with one two three four uh building signs not including that one that says delivery pickup just the branded signs or three branded signs minus the one on the west elevation
because we could go around all day Uh starting on my right Um I'm sorry a little more time to think about it but uh again it's it's a highly visible spot Um the sign by the drive-thru I it's still going to be hard to see even from the street Um if you
could do away with that um I'd be happy with the rest of them So you wanted four that you're in favor Be okay I'm I'm fine with five Uh I appreciate your comments and if you're saying it's important to business
Yeah I knew what you meant Um uh you're telling us it's important for business Um you and to council's point you've listened to almost everything else we've asked you to do So um I'm good with five I need to ask Gary Uh I think you guys have been really trying to be very
accommodating with uh the signs and the screening And we're not actually deliberating on the whole thing We're talking about just that sign issue But it's a very prominent uh corner of our town is the gateway to Long Hill from some positions And I think people are going to know that there's a Wendy's
there without having Wendy's signs all over it So I'm not liking all the signs that are there So you would want four instead of five I would want one like the other restaurants in town Okay But you in you you asked the question I answered it I Well I was going from four
Four to five Okay I think it should have one sign Okay Go ahead Tom I'm okay with the signs in the peaks Um you can see that from a distance and tells you what it is I have
an issue with the illuminated sign on the side of the building which you'll be driving up to Don't think we need to have a Wendy's um logo there And I'm I know it's going to be a wall wall wash Wall wash Yeah Yeah But it's still an illumination There's a lot of light in
that corner and it's going to be on till midnight I'm not a fan of that right now Uh so I would say that I'm probably a four Um I'm I'm fine with five honestly Honest honestly if I if you were going
to say four and I know this doesn't make a lot of sense for your business model because I mean not business I mean just because it's the main entrance but that's the least visible of all the signs on your building right is your main entrance where you walk in but you're not going to have a main entrance without the Wendy's sign But in terms of
everyone talking about cars and everything seeing it that's probably the one that people will see the least I understand your issue with you're on two main roads here and you and you know if you were if you were again talking about some other restaurants in our town if you were in their positions you wouldn't have so many you know places where they
could see So I I'm you know I'm in agreement that five is fine with me Jerry um thank you for uh listening to the board and making all of the adjustments you've made to your application We all appreciate that You know you're working hard to get something that we can approve Um but you should be so fortunate as to have an
approval I think and be hopeful that you would be able to live uh with conformity with our signings and just have one sign that's down with grain look alike I think that would really really make a
nice statement about our Valley Road That's the way we're going That's the way we want our our commercial business district to look People have spent a lot of time analyzing that a lot of time building these ordinances And I would really love you guys to be respectful
Alex Yeah I um I'm kind of leaning more towards the four the four than the five but I'm going to throw a little fly in the in the ointment here And that's the windows I'm looking at pictures of the existing or what what was used there previously and signs were put in the windows
and how can we can can have confidence that that won't occur here because if I'm driving down say you know the east elevation side I see 2 4 6 8 10 10 windows that each one could potentially become a sign that's not proposing those that's an enforcement issue with your
zoning offic well we're not proposing that they're not going to be permitted I just All right As long as Right Well that's for the zoning person The the uh enforcement person that would enforce Yes Okay So as far as four you want four
Four Okay So how what is that now how many four How many times oh I wasn't tracking I'm sorry M I was tracking four versus five versus one One plus the miscellaneous Is that what we're We're taking one off We're
definitely taking one off The qu the question is you're gonna go with four Yeah I think I think you got five people who said four or five and you had two people who said one Okay Okay I I understand and I I I'm trying to
comprehend where my board is here Um I I personally like as least amount of signs as possible but I do see your point as far as the Wendy's and the other two because at some point the building has to be identified I would prefer one site out front but we all
know in the world of advertising in the world of trying to get people into your building we would like to you like to see as much identification on the building as possible because it doesn't look like a Wendy's And although there's other Wendy's that don't look like a Wendy's but you know everybody's got um
and we do appreciate that you you're not internally lighting them you are downlighting them Um I would prefer prefer prefer not having that sign on the other side where you know on the side it says made fresh Uh uh whatever Agreeable on that Chairman we're taking the made fresh No I meant the other the
other face sign because it is it is basically uh a light that is very visible from the street And I don't think it's going to be any more of an attraction than the sign that's on the street basically because you're going to
see that You're going to know the Wendy's is there as opposed to seeing something on the building only because it is going to be a little bit brighter It's lower and it's going to be more in somebody's face basically than than the line than the ones on the peaks Have you
have you ever seen the Walgreens building How many signs on the building say Walgreens well there was that they got the thing on the tower Yeah One Yeah No I understand Okay I I'm just saying as opposed to one two three four Uh right across the
street Yeah I would say the the the three branded signs minus So every restaurant in town can come in and say "We want five signs." They can't Sure they can They come before the board and say "We need five signs." They can ask They can ask and they can have a room full of people say "We're coming in here
We need all five signs One second Hold on We I understand your point You want one sign I understand that No I'm saying the point is that any restaurant can come in here and say we want five signs on our building Well Mr Chairman may I
advise the board uh that given that we're in the midst of a quasi judicial hearing and not having a public policy discussion as a planning board would or a governing body would Uh while this is
interesting perhaps we should focus on the quasi judicial capacity we're here now in and continue to hear the application and ultimately decide the application We're only discussing the Wendy's not everybody else is at uh building And I understand what you're
saying but everybody every application stand on its own merit If somebody else comes in and wants whatever they want we have to consider the site is what we're doing here Every site is different As long as you're considering the site Yeah we are considering the site And and in my opinion the site I don't mind having
the name Wendy's and these other two the one on the side of the building I I tend to agree with you that is a bit of an overkill with the lights shining on it on the side of the building as opposed to the ones in the peak And I don't think it's going to make any more of a difference in people seeing that it's a
Wendy's because you do have the one out front We got to Could we remove the lighting on there on that one go Are you asking to go to down lighting on it or eliminate the lighting i thought we were already with the down lighting on all Well this this is side
lighting on this one Had the wall wash but we can go to the down lighting But I anytime you say just so we're all on the same page We're talking about four to five One two three Correct When Well and the I guess the five is So we're all counting Yeah it
it's the three it's the three branded signs as opposed to four branded signs Yeah And then four five Well you already eliminated the This is gone So one two three four Four Three or four basically And then this the monument The monument
sign You've keep information sign Well I thought we were talking about the wall the building That's why I'm Well we're talking about five signs meaning the one out front too Got it So the one up front is one So we're talking two three four three four five and and and I'm saying I prefer only four and not the one on the
side You're including the monuments I'm including the monuments Sorry Monument being one and then two three four And I'm pointing to the peaks right exactly Exactly So uh you know our thoughts I
mean our opinion is the less the less comes off of that property the better as far as what people see from a distance And I think if people know you people are going to know you Wendy's is there They're going to see that outside They're going to see the
sign on Valley Road in time to make the left the right turn on the playing field Um you know we we don't want a lot of light spilling and and I if I may we we heard everybody and we understand the point and we definitely do respect the
town and the board and and and the corner and the location and we're happy to abide by four including the um the the the monument sign monument sign being one the the peak on the east elevation two the peak on the south
elevation three and the peak on the north elevation being four Right And eliminate that wall wash And and the one on A4 exhibit West Elevation the sign right now that has the Wendy's face on it would be eliminated Correct sir yes
Okay And if this is where we are now sign So and and also the Made Fresh Correct And that would also mean that the lighting that that was going to be used for the lighting would also be eliminated with the signage Absolutely Yes And and this is just we understand
we've we heard the discussion and we respect that You're making those modifications to the site plan and agreeing to those stipulated conditions Correct Yes sir The uh are we at now three wall signs plus a miscellaneous yeah Three branded wall signs plus that
delivery one Well we we call that four wall signs Yes but we I want to make sure for the record that branded sign I have the distinction Okay the the the uh the area of the wall signs now in total is 75.113
75 he's all way ahead one uh and uh versus 25 um 4 versus 1 75.11 versus 25 our ground signs are still two and our area of
ground signs are still 53.57 Seven Correct Uh and we still have eliminated the walt illumination We and the appearance of signs and there was a uh a average illumination greater than the max permitted at one point was still
there Uh uh Joe and Adam was you did testify about that a little bit higher high on that and that is a variant It's not a design waiver Correct Liz m I think it's a design 1532 I think it's a design waiver It's a design waiver
Design waiver Okay And that was if I'm correct Adam the the testimony was to meet the original intent of the site plan approval because you were using the existing fixtures Correct Yes Right But
it still technically exceeds the average illumination permitted for the correct Okay Design and that's a design waiver So we have the four variances number of wall signs area of wall signs number of ground sign area ground sign and we have the design waiver on the average
illumination exceedence exemption waivers are for checklists exemptions are for design well I yes there are those who use the term interchangeably uh as well like D and the storm water rules yes we were kind enough to ask the
voting is different for the Yes Yes This was just to clarif this is just to clarify the signage because I didn't want that to be hanging over our heads before we deliberated on the entire thing I know some members would prefer other things but at least we've
come to some consensus that we've you know um but um now want the devarian to go down I understand some other issues with I think we have a consensus pretty much a consensus Yeah
Um where's your planner is he He's here Before we Mr Chairman did we did we finish this witness i No I I I just wanted to ask if where his planner was That's okay Oh yeah He McD um uh the Is there anything else that you can add to this application as being the director
of operations i mean uh that now that you're standing there I don't want to cut you short Um I think our professionals have done a great job presenting the project Um I'm also not u head of oper our vice president of operations Okay Did offer testimony on
Okay How the restaurant would operate Okay Oh I meant like the uh what what do you usually do you set you uh what is your job function i I work with the design team to the design team design the building So and to work through the site plan
application process and Okay All right That's all right You pretty much told us everything about what you need to Yes Yes Do we have anybody in the audience that wants to question these witnesses okay Thank Thank you Then we're going to
close it to the audience Um Okay Yeah Um are we done with these two or let's go i just want to make sure I don't want to Okay fine So bring up your your planner because we had some questions for him Yeah Good All right
Thank you board and board professionals Yes I do Yes You lost your planner license in the last two weeks no No You're still licensed disciplinary action the last two weeks that you became aware of No I have not Is this your third or your
fourth or your fifth tonight third tonight Third tonight Wow That's slow Wow It's a slow night Yeah No no speeding tickets getting here Um now we ended the last time with you just
explaining and doing we had no appropriate time to question you because it was 11:00 at night Um is there does the board need a refresher on what he said or do you have any questions ready for him i just have one question maybe that to help tee it up Mr Mcdana are you
aware of the additional uh uh concessions made by your applicant client bringing the number of wall signs down to four uh the area of wall signs uh to 75.11 square ft the number of ground
signs to two and the area of ground signs to 53.57 square ft Uh and uh the wall sign illumination has been illuminate illuminated eliminated and the uh say illuminated has been eliminated 10 times
fast and the appearance of signs have been eliminated those deviations but we saw the average illumination exceeding the maximum permitted as a an exception not a waiver we don't use that term the the the um the uh in light of that uh
has your testimony changed any and if so how so through and go ahead I probably should have allowed your your counsel to ask you that but I'd like to hear the answer too So through the interactive process and compliments to your
professionals with working with us some back and forth we think that this application has landed at at a good spot with respect to signage taking a good plan and making it even better simplifying that sign package Obviously there's always a a balance here and we
think we've landed at at a at a good balance where we can provide for effective uh recognition here clear and safe identification of the site to the public the patrons that will come here while respecting from a contextsensitive standpoint your community design and character And if I may just dovetail off
that uh you're also aware the additional stipulated two conditions by your client losing one of the menu board signs uh the uh directional signs will not have logos but will have shadows if you will uh of a figurine that we're all familiar
with Uh colors yeah the cameos will be monument sign will be down lit Uh the wall signage apparently also will be downlit
Uh and the uh brick bases uh and uh the structure element is being borne down to its uh uh columns or pillars and the median is shrinking by approximately uh 8 to 12 in on either side Uh still
continuing a 6 foot 6 in excuse me curb uh with all those additional stipulated two conditions again uh is your testimony the same as it just was with respect to uh the signage and the relief sort it is even stronger even better the
uh was it C2 that you were arguing with respect to all variances but for the D1 use variance for the driveth through component of the use yes I went down pulling and uh and then I guess with the uh
average illumination being exception That's the 51B standard if I recall correctly That's correct Well reasonableness and impracticability Yes And uh so your testimony remains the same there Correct Correct I think we're
teed up uh for the board to ask the questions the board intended to ask Mr Chairman if you need me to do a minute recap I certainly can It's uh No Well I I think our board members had some questions so let them let them tee it Who had a question i I have questions So
uh my first question is um last week you were two weeks ago sorry you were telling us how uh this site is particularly well suited um for this use And I think that's part of the criteria that you need to satisfy to to accomplish this So I was thinking about
that and I'm also thinking about um all the challenges in the parking lot and the circulation of that lot there the vehicle circulation I went there myself a few times Um it looks challenging for a car to be entering and exiting at the
same time Um the the narrowness of the driveway on Planefield Avenue doesn't seem friendly for vehicles going in and out at the same time which I imagine is going to happen a lot We've had traffic engineers here Um no one brought this up
We talked about left turns and talked about congestion so we're satisfied with that But um considering that narrowness of that plus the signage that's required for no trucks no trailers all different kinds of you know no no prohibition on
this and to me I just want to know how you can you know really justify that this is particularly well suited for defense vehicle use Uh what's nice about this application if I I believe it was testified they were going to make that opening bigger
Yes Mr I'm not sure you got that Mr Candle testified that they could make that opening They can or they will They will I think it was testified you were you were intending to make that bigger Come back up for that
because I had the same concern because you have that big rounded area there that almost cuts off the ability to make the right curve cut You could trim it back and give a little more of a wider opening So this this uh curve area here at the entrance we are making bigger
Okay Over here if necessary any county we can make it Okay Adam you realize you're still on the road from two weeks ago But the plan doesn't show that does it does that plan show you're increasing it are we talking about the opening on Planefield or Yes The opening
to Planefield Avenue The opening to Planefield We're not we're um we've made it we we've modified it slightly while maintaining the same curb cut uh on playing field Um we did open the area to the drive-thru to allow Right I
understood that But what I thought was just testified to was that the narrowness of the playing field exit and entrance was going to be increased So it's not as narrow as it is now So that's not the case You don't plan to do that That that is not the proposal right now cuz I misunderstood Someone else
just said that I thought that's what they were saying Okay fine So so can continue then Given the narrowness and all of the signage that's required um what we talked about when we were talking about the signs was what if someone doesn't see one and someone pulls in with a trailer or a larger
truck or something like that And I think the answer was well that's on this property right like so that's the problem of weddings But I look at it like our residents are there too So and it's other people and I don't like when I go somewhere and I go to a restaurant or somewhere else and the parking is
unders sized or something else isn't really the way it should be and then I say who approved this like what board would do this so I just don't want that on my record So just like how do you speak to that i I I I see your point uh Jerry and I
agree with you because these this big rounded area here that looks like it could be squared off and give more space to the incoming cars so they can make a better turn into the into the drive-thru because that's an awfully small area If you look at the bottom left hand picture
there that big rounded area seems to jut into the entrance I concur with my colleagues That should be that should be chopped and made you know back about five feet or so Uh we'll we'll need we'll need
radius on that that curb coming from Planefield into the right But it should be the radius should be cut back because you right now if you try to turn in there you see how narrow it gets between the the the line and there you almost it it'd be hardressed to try to not go into
the lane That's coming out I think you need to Mr Chair So I'm looking at exhibit A5 right lower left Right Yes And I'll call it the hair curve in Yes You want to see that soften or widened yeah Brought back a little bit because
that that is an extremely tight turn there You And it's what's deceptive is it's wider by the street and then it narrows because that's coming into it It's a pinser point Yeah And that that's that's like you're causing a problem there It's
fine for one car but if you have two cars in the mic Is the mic still working oh yeah it is Yeah we heard it That was me Oh that was you Oh no Is it i thought the system was out
So you'd like him to trim it to a a curve of the diameter of the width between the two right Curves Yes So it's not a compound curve Right It's just simply
push it back so that it doesn't jut into the entrance way I don't think it's going to Yeah Right now if you went straight you'd hit the curb Basically you have to almost go to your left and you're going into the oncoming traffic Joe what I'm talking about picture yourself driving south on Planefield
Avenue and making a right into the parking lot at the same time another person is at that stopwatch trying to leave That can't happen I think it can like two two pieces of I think I think it can but it's tight I think it can and
it did happen at the bank I understand that there's a more predominance of cars leaving and entering at the same time But the width of the opening like measured at the stop bar straight
across is is the width of the parking the parking lot aisle Right And I believe that interior to the site that two-way traffic So if you were to come straight in to park your vehicle and enter the
building that two-way traffic in the drive aisle is We have a site plan to reference that width I think that's maintained to the width of it's actually widened At the entrance to the site Yeah you're talking
about going out I'm talking about coming in No I understand But that's narrower there While somebody's occupying the spot you're right You're going and making a right You have to go on the opposite side Hold on Let me just
pull to the site Hold this If if that whole curve was pushed back you would open that area up and have a freeer flow to make the right into your um into your drive-thru and also to go straight Cuz right now if somebody comes and make a
right off a playing field if they don't take that real tight they're going to be smacking the left hand side of the car coming out The more you open that the more you may encourage traffic from the larger vehicles and the trailers that you uh prohibiting Not really There's a sign there There's a sign there to say
no truck I'm only You guys You guys can have what you want I want to make that bigger just for cars I don't think it's big enough for cars because the bank is the bank didn't have a lot of cars going in and out It's still two-way traffic and there was a site plan with an approval for two-way traffic of pedest
of Yes of sing like single cars I realize that I I say they got it wrong though They should have made that wider I think that whole thing is a little screwed up Whoever allowed them to do that didn't think that a car is coming around And a bank you don't have that
many cars going in and out that often So here you're going to have a potential of a car sitting there at the stop sign and two or three cars pulling in at the same time Okay I think respectfully what you're trying to engineer in is
accommodations for student drivers that haven't been on the road very long Uh there's they do exist but at the stop to pull out with a car with a car sitting at the stop bar to exit there is
a demarcation of the in-n-out lane striped and there is ample width for a car to make the 180 turn in off of Planefield as well as the turn northbound into the site and S turn into the driveway I just don't see why you
have this big circle coming in and you have it wider at the curb It I I I'm not in I'm never in favor of that I'm always in favor of having the area that's behind the drive the drive-in area the same width Mr Chairman are you looking at a photo or are you looking at the
site no I'm looking at this photo right here Yeah So we we're enlarging compared to what's on the photo Um so part of the first thing that we did is we made the throat of this entrance here a little wider as part of our proposal Can I see that closer cuz I I'm not catching it
this distance Yeah Oh okay So you have made that circle smaller right because you pul you pulled back that circle Correct To make it Well that's what I was saying You did make it wider And you said no No that's what I
So they did make it bigger Okay You did exactly what we wanted They did They did make it bigger Why because the curve cut was wider So you made the interior wider to the curb cut That's what we wanted Exactly Thank
you I wanted to clarify Yes you did Exactly what we wanted you to do Could you just bring that over here so we can see yes sir Yeah Just just let the board members look at that because we don't have that Well this is part of our original submission Um on our updated
one the signage that still attributes are still the same plan You can see where they took they're taking the tree out Yeah we actually removed the tree and made the front of that opening That's exactly what we wanted Yeah that was
perfect Okay so you caught our gist Thank you for that Sorry for that long That's what we needed to say Good I mean okay That was question one Yes So we're still on we're still on the parking lot if you
will Y keep these guys here just I'm just I'm just saying take that aside But given the other constraints the like the limited trail no trailers and no trucks and box trucks have to park a certain way In your opinion you still believe that this
area is particularly well suited for this use I do These are standard traffic control signs to control the flow We have a traffic engineer who's testified here We have a site engineer right we've had two traffic engineers look at this now and a site engineer as well uh to
make sure that that balance is met Um I don't want to speak for right here but I think that I asked that you recall Mr Jar's testimony that he felt he was comfortable with your control that the site could have safety I think that's
what he right I think most of what I remember in the testimony and I I wanted to review it when I was I don't know what it's on the website yet but I wanted to review that too but most of that was uh most of that was about like traffic volume and congestion and stuff like that I don't like we did
talk about trailers I know Paul White one of our board members had lots of questions about trailers and that's what sort of went down that road with with the signage and that's why I'm here because now I'm saying there's so many questions about the signage that I at the beginning and everything else So is
this all suited i I I appreciate that I'm saying my summation but I am recalling Mr jar I believe gave some some confidence that with the signage and perhaps not a perfect site but this is a fully developed that's why I'm
saying particularly well suited because maybe nothing's perfect but even particularly well suited like what degree is this right that's why you guys get the big what what Mr J said was they're going to have problems on their site but it's not going to be on the roads Exactly That's what he said He's the one that said that isn't he it's
going to be on there But that's okay That's really our resident's problem too because it could be any one of our It's just saying it's their problem that are in there The owner's problem because they're But it could be our problem too It could be our It's more of a problem for them because they can't accommodate certain vehicles And as long as the
signage is is is attested to or right or as long as people uh abide by the restrictions of not having certain vehicles in that property you shouldn't have a problem So what he said was it they're it's going to be their problem which is kind of a contrast to it being
well suited I mean you're saying it's well suited Mr Jar is saying it has a problem Should be okay I always wonder I just want to he he didn't say will be a problem He said if the if the case that is going to be a problem it's going to be the owner's problem But the
assumption that something will indefinitely happen on the site is just an assumption right probably not going to be there It's probably going to be some somebody in a little car and accident vendor whatever We can't even predict the future but I'm off with that Okay I'm on to the next one You guys are okay with it But just on that one note
if I may as a followup did anyone understand Mr Jar's testimony by that being your problem to perhaps if not definitely mean that restricting who can and can't come onto your property is going to be your
economic problem and not necessarily a problem visa v the site itself I maybe I misunderstood what he meant by that statement with I thought he meant it's gonna be your problem not having tractor trailers there is going to be your
problem because you're just going to lose business I maybe that's he might have meant both but I think he meant that more of a physical problem with regard to traffic because that's was the question what you have to ask Mr Fishinger what Mr Charman and obviously
I wasn't here when uh my colleague was Um generally speaking with the concern with these drive-throughs is any congestion we want if cars are stacked up or waiting on the site We want them on the site Yes it's could be an inconvenience to your residents if they
are the happen to also be the patrons of the restaurant Our primary concern is we want to make sure the public streets the public roads are safe and kept clear And for that is why we want to make sure there's enough room for cars to queue up on site so that they're not affecting
the drivers Now if you're pulling in and you see there's a long line or it's difficult to get in and out of the site then you're less likely to go there You may say "Well I yeah I kind of wanted Wendy's but I'll go down to a different restaurant because it doesn't look like
it's you can queue in early." That's I think what he was mean by their problem is less likely talking about was more and you guys can tell me if I'm wrong here but I think he was talking about the question was what if someone misses the no trailer sign and creates a
parking issue or a problem in the parking lot and there's and it's hard to unt untangle that someone's stuck with a trailer in there and that causes backup which could back up to the public streets by the way that that was what I think that was the context of That's
Wendy's problem I think that's what the issue was Yeah But this if somebody ignores a sign or doesn't see one Exactly Well that's a problem with any That's a problem anywhere But this particular site has the largest queue in for drive-thru that I've ever seen I mean it's it's it's basically wraps
around the entire building So you know they'd have to have like 20 cars in there before it got backed up But it's it's actually the longest drive-thru I've I've seen Um but any other questions for Yeah I have more Yes go ahead Um so um thank you for going
through all of that everybody Um the next question is about the zone itself So you you last week or two weeks ago you talked a lot about our master plan and you talked a lot about Taco Bell and you talked a lot about other things and um I just wanted to ask you if you
walked through our zoning changes and all of the updates for a long period of time or did you start with the most recent 2023 master plan because that's what you were referencing I I tried to scrub all of it and I tried to give the board what I thought was was
pertinent because in 2020 I'm sorry excuse me 2007 there was something called future search and it was the Valley Road 2020 was what what Valley Road should look like in the future So now we're in 25 so it's you know quite a distance later There have been about
five different uh different studies on Valley Road from an environmental one called the Anjack grant study the Valley Road like I said before future search 200 residents the governing body the planning board the zoning board members from different things decided what they
want Valley Road to look like in the future Um we also had like I said the ANJ grant was environmental study We had some Ruters students analyze Valley Road We had our planning board do it a few times So it's been updated This is not like a stale zone like this And and just
recently we implemented the overlay zone Each one of those studies analyzed the use of drive-through restaurants It was discussed The residents had input The governing body had input Zone was updated The ordinances are were updated many times
each time this use was excluded from that zone as a as a prohibited use I think you're mistaken there Correct Uh on page 4-40 of the November 2023 master
plan we had some conversations back and forth It does um say that uh restaurants with drive-thru windows with supplemental design regulation should be permitted in PD So some of the most recent
it says should are you reading that exactly verb there should be permitted Yeah Jerry Uh besides that the most we were just back and forth on this today and and Mr chair if it helps the board I gave the board a number of master plan
snippets about emerging trends We did talk about that and that was you didn't mention that one by this one is a is I'm going to look at that But um the ones that go back to what I was talking about there's been lots of reasonings right each time this was excluded So it's not part
of our zone right now It's not a it's not a permitted use That's why you're here Yeah Jerry I understand what you're saying But the fact is though that to go back to 2007 is really okay not fair I'm not going I am starting there I know but
it goes to 2007 2009 2012 No I understand that 2015 2019 it goes right along to change the zone is what I'm saying That's the whole reason for the the variance and things change I'm not debating this
with you I'm asking a question of their professional action But what are you asking i'm asking finish my question yet Okay Okay So given what I've said there's been lots of opportunity for the township the planning board and the
zoning board to update the zoning the actual zone here and and make this a permitted use and they haven't I just want to know how you say that that doesn't impair our our zone our ordinance because you can't do that with
the negative criteria right you can't you can't have a negative impact on our zone But considering that it's been analyzed so many times and discussed so many times and not changed maybe maybe that language is in the master plan but it didn't make it to our zone and it had
plenty of opportunity to And and if I may chairman Mr Aron's position permission as well and I know both our planners our our planner and Mr McDonald will publicly know this I'm sure I think it's
specific to the Medici uh uh enhanced standard of proof on the negative criteria to second prong The reconciliation is my opinion exactly what you're asking Uh how do you reconcile the fact that it hasn't at least made its way into the master plan
yet as a permitted use that's part of the D1 use uh criteria required of any D1 use applicant uh specifically it goes to the second part of negative criteria in my opinion Um it's a legal opinion not a
planning opinion So I think I think I think I think it I think you've nailed it as a question Uh and and that's certainly part of the burden of proof applicant That's what I'm saying It's part of their burden It's actually part of their burden of proof Right
I'll echo you nailed it Mr Aronio Is that what in terms of the question now I have to nail it in terms of the answer No that's for the board that and I think what you just asked goes to the heart of the reconciliation of the omission of the use from that's what the Medici case is all about We've got master plan after
master plan after master plan that looks at this site and then we've got a 2023 master plan which is fresh It's the latest look and I'll I'll read you what it says These are your words or your your planning board's words not mine This is section 4.5.9.4
4 recommendations for permitted uses in commercial zones It goes through a whole list of things and it says permit permit uses that are currently prohibited Gives you a string of those and at the end it says drive up windows for restaurants
retailers banks andarmacies with supplemental regulations in the BD zone and the PSO and PF uh PVO overlay zone So there's a a direct recommendation that comes on the heels of all of those trends supplemental regulations too
right there's a there's a constraint on that So the other way the board can can deal with the reconciliation of the omission of the use It's a good point Why hasn't the governing body changed the zoning yet it's 2023 The zoning has noted it so many times and so many times
it was I'm trying to answer Let him answer Okay Go ahead So you went through a series question I'm sorry The most recent it was in 2023 I'll have to look at exactly what the month was that it was was adopted November November That's what I
thought So we're barely a year past when that recommendation that master plan was adopted It takes time for zoning to catch up with master plan recommendations Um again 2023 there's a
recommendation That master plan is 190 pages It has a lot of recommendations in it a lot of things for a governing body to chew on So I don't know what the governing body is doing with this but they could be weighing it I'm I'm not I'm not sure Thank you for that answer One more question but and then I'll
leave you alone Um the last question is about all of the studies Um going back to the future search sorry Adam I'm going back to there That's where it came 200 residents A lot of people said "We want to see a different look on Valley Road We don't want to have a county road that's a highway right we want to have a
walkable scalable human scalable downtown." Okay that's what we want And this is what we call our emerging down downtown or emerging town center And what they want to see is pedestrian traffic right we want to see walkable zones We don't want to see driving zones
right so can we get to the question in other words drive and park and then walk to different places Whether we agree with that or not they want to attract pedestrians to that area and have people sit and play and work and do everything in that area right we want an active
downtown Um I look at a drive-thru restaurant in the very center of that as a conflict with you know pedestrian traffic Vehicles and pedestrians don't always agree So that's also in our master plan That's also in all of these
studies Just talk about that if you will Tell me how you can rationalize that Kudos to to community good planning in the first place This is a walkable area There's sidewalks There's connectivity Also cooked into the design We have crosswalks to create safe zones for
pedestrians So I think the the applicant through its design the community through good planning has mitigated the impact of of conflicts of vehicles and pedestrians here I don't think there's anything about this design and the retention of a building that's been a long-standing and important part of your
community at a visually prominent corner forecloses the ability to accommodate the pedestrian Thank you You're welcome Thank you Jerry Um any other questions um yeah Do the signs help it be
productive for from a planning standpoint did the signs help it be i'm sorry From a planning standpoint do the signs help the uh site be productive and and give you everything that you want i think
we've landed at a good spot As I understand it we've got the in I'm looking again at exhibit A4 and the two top elevations We've retained the logo and the word mark In the middle elevation we've retained the the word the logo as well And the signs that you
saw in the lower elevations are gone So I think we've we've landed at a good spot in terms of balancing clear and safe site identification and and context sensitive design Okay Chairman can I ask a follow sure Sure You're free to Yes of course Uh
appreciate the question We have a developed site here already We do sort of a adaptive adaptive reuse So does that impact how you do the reconciliation it does It goes back to site suitability as well Um obviously
adaptive reuse is the least impactful of all types of land development than wholesale new construction and there are always impacts associated with that as well So the the original resolution founded that this building was was um desirable at this location The
applicants working with that which is there So that goes towards site suitability as well Okay Any questions of of the public of their planner do a handoff back and forth Yeah I think so Charles with
Millington We're citing section four of the master plan I'd like it to take it a few steps further and take it down to let's see get you the
exact area just for clarification Mr This is the same 2023 master plan Yes it is That's section four No problem It says on page 4-23 establish a downtown epicenter
between Popular and Planefield This location fits into that range This area should be developed into a desirable place to visit encourage visitors to park and walk by So I guess my question is if I read
further down from where you were pointing out about the drive up windows could you explain to me how this proposed variance for drive up where 60% of your business is going to
be drive up or pickup how is that going to promote park and walkby i'm not sure I understand the question How is that going to promote park and walk by yes Again that will that will uh by
adaptively re reusing a building that is presently empty in the community will reactivate the site and bring people to the area which will introduce uh people to other businesses in the area as well So it encourages uh reactivity and it
encourages um revitalization But if 60% of your patrons are in the car how are they going to get out they're in the driveway Where did you get that number 60% Is that They said at the last meeting Okay I'm just clarifying that Good It It brings people
to the It brings people to the community It brings people to this site If they can't park here they can park somewhere else and get out and walk It introduces people to the businesses in the area Yeah vibrancy instead of a vacant bank
building Certainly the building in its current condition is not inviting people to to walk by And your your site currently uh is accessible It has sidewalks Correct It does Okay It's interesting to note two weeks ago
you quoted and referenced page 3.6 six of the 2023 November master plan and you referenced section 3-7 You talked about trends However you left off the last
line I was just wondering if you'd comment on that It says quote "Long Hill does not currently permit drive-thru windows for restaurants although some exist in town but drive permit drive-thru windows for
farmers and banks at certain zones So how I guess my question is with that stated and I understand what you said about 4.3 or 4.5 why wouldn't they say that we're
going to change that the driver planning board did accept a recommendation sir when they passed right exactly They said restaurants with drive-thrus with supplemental design regulations
should be permitted be zone They're arguing that this is a recognition after a long period of time right in the master plan adopted by the planning that this is a recognition that it's time for a change
That's part of our reconciliation It's our we're putting forth for the board's consideration There is in the November 2023 a recent document after the 20 years there's we understand there's competing arguments
about what you have One of the recommendations here is sense that restaurants and drive-thru windows should be permitted because there's an issue as it talked about in other places There's an issue with these banks
They're all closing Not that many are open What do you do with them he's saying that specific line doesn't say this is just recognizing the current condition and then the recommendations come on a different section That's the answer Right The way I read it what what this gentleman just read was a factual
statement It was a truism You don't allow for drive-thru food uses now Then later flipping through the pages you have a recommendation that you should have food uses in these buildings that could use help They're good buildings that could use help Okay Thank you Thank
you Chuck Um any other questions by uh I see another good person coming up Please identify yourself Mike Sarjassi Millington So what we were just talking about it says with supplemental design regulations So what are those for the
site i don't think they were recommended in the um in the master plan I think that's part of the So you won't have any supplemental design regulations for the site when the ordinances are adopted I think they would I think that's what we're doing now If we give them a
variance we're giving them design guidance We have a developed site where we've gone through fully the site plan process So we're endeavoring to keep the same So we're making up the ordinance as we go along
All right I'm just just asking a question No no no That our board doesn't make up ordinances Our I understand it I was a little sarcastic Just to clarify if I may Yeah And and the process of course is like a a judiciary if you will The legislation is the legislation The
judiciary particularly with respect to the MLUL and the land use process in the state of New Jersey is that this is the board of exceptions So with conditions uh if the applicant meets their burden of proof they can make those exceptions Um no legislation from the bench as they
say It's not legislating from the bench but it is permitting exceptions which is part of the process Okay And then I had one other question on the site Are you aware of any other Wendy's that just have a single entrance what do you mean by single entrance a
single point of inn-out egress Oh Oh Oh Oh You mean drive drive entrance correct So I'm sorry Just did you say any use or or specific type of use i didn't hear No um like in and out So the how the how how a driver would get in and out a single
point So yeah but you said are you aware of Wendy's oh any Wendy's i'm sorry I just didn't hear Wendy's I thought you said use other any other Wendy's Yeah I mean I have not done an analysis of that but I can tell you I drive past a Wendy's on Route 10 in Randolph every
day It's one in one out Okay Is it is that located on oneway highway street it's on Route 10 right so so between Center Grove and Milbrook so traffic on Route 10 goes east and west and it's at least four lanes right yeah It's a
median section right so I don't think that has any bearing on Valley Road So I I I'll just get to my point I guess I I spent the last 20 minutes on Google Maps and I found one on route to testify
any further if I can allow my board to abide by the law that governs it questions is one thing comments are another I can swear you in or you can make the comments My question is is do you have any that are on a local street
two-way street with no local two-way street where we're allowing both a left and a right-hand turn with single point of access onto the property that you're aware of if Wait wait wait wait He sir he's sir
Same thing I don't need coaching Law law law applies to everybody equally The the the uh the question is of your planner at least for now If someone else could speak to it later Yeah Let me put it this way If the planner is not the best person we can have someone else because
the question was directed toward the applicant in general So I mean if you feel that someone else in your team could answer it better fine If you can fine too All I want to clarify is number one this is not a user variance This is not Wendy's This is a quick serve restaurant with a drive-thru There's
examples all over the place Why is that we not uh zone by user or occupant but only by use please continue So your consideration should not be unique to Wendy's and whether there's 20 Wendy's that do or don't There's examples of fast food restaurants throughout New
Jersey that are on two-lane two-way roads that have one way in Uh are there any fast food restaurants in our town that have a single point of egress i don't know
All right Thanks Any other uh public is there any other public i I don't see any Uh I don't believe so All right I'm going to close it to the public for questions Um have any other witnesses no Okay Uh do we have any follow-up questions by
our experts that maybe was not answered no Okay Just want to make sure Um what yeah Uh do we have now we're going to go open it up for public comment which means you have to be sworn in Please keep it short It's getting
late Sworn in Yeah If you you if you make a comment you have to be sworn in Uh anybody wants to make a comment okay Please raise your right hand Do you swear to God or affirm it's It's right there Back there again
Yeah We apologize for the mic situation That's all right Fiscally prudent Do you swear to God or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do Thank you very much Please proceed I don't know if I given testimony Mike
Sarjassi Millington Can you spell the last name please s M A R G I A S SI Now when you make comments it's considered sworn Okay And just so you know the benefit of it is not only is it a rule but uh just like the applicants
who are sworn in when they testify your testimony is of no lesser value That's why you are swearing in are sworn in and you provide not just comment but sworn testimony as a fact witness Okay I did listen to the last meeting uh the
webcast So I've been fully present although not physically present Um in regards to the signs on Valley Road I'd like to uh thank the applicant for making changes to the sign that's actually physically on Valley Road and making conforming with the neighbors
Walgreens Uncoming Thread which is a nonprofit um and your competition Taco Bell the the you know the signs on every side of the building There was given testimony here about hightra areas people driving through and you'd be able
to see the building That's not We're not in an exit of 78 It's not Long Hill Um the traffic that comes through Long Hill is going to know that there's a Wendy's here They're going to come here because
they know it's not a transient town So in a transient environment I can understand the argument and the point that was made for signs on every side of the building and as many as you can get Um that's not the case here And I hope the board would consider that and
consider how our ordinances are drafted um and why they're drafted that way because we're not that type of town In regards to the drive-thru which is the probably elephant in the room I guess right um I realized it was a bank before
but that was an allowed use And to be frank it was a much less intense drive-thru use This is a different and unique application Um the use is not similar to the bank In fact the drive-thru is the majority of the
business 60% Um I believe it was less than 20% dining in I think it was 17 or something somebody mentioned Um so you know the township has specifically called out the permitted accessory uses and done so in various
zones throughout the town the drive up windows for banks andarmacies are granted Um and it specifically says no to other drive up types You know that didn't just happen by chance Um there's a lot of time and
thought that went into that process to get there And I realize that the most recent as it was noted the most recent master plan does talk to or speak to potentially allowing it but with supplemental regulations which have not
been defined yet Okay this is not an extra foot of height on the backside of a building due to a steep slope or an extra percentage point on lock coverage All right It's a significant and substantial deviation from the ordinance as it stands
today The drive-thru use is significant and intensive on the site per the testimony that the applicant gave Um the master plan and zoning or is combined brings some order to the town It helps define what the town looks and
feels like Lot coverage ordinances uses all play into that Valley Road is in a period of transition as we I think can all attest to Valley Road needs more help Um it's going to take years for it to attain its potential The fact that we
have two fast food restaurants today in the town is irrelevant in my opinion and should be irrelevant to the board as this is a unique application I believe that when the application is looked at as a whole it does create a detriment to the master plan and the ordinances
um that are you know guiding towards the look and feel It substantially erodess the master plan erodess what the master plan envisions for the town and the vision for the community I don't believe the lot is uniquely suited Um it's significantly challenged with a single entrance In fact no other fast food
establishment in town has a single point of egress in and out to the property Um it's it's a challenge site for a drive-thru um and a drive-thru that has significant
intensity in my opinion And because of the detriment that it would cause um I would deny the D1 use variance for the drive-thru and ask that you please uphold and support the ordinances that we have in place today Thank you Thank
you Any other members of the public wish to make a comment charles Renowitz Millington Mr Ronowitz I may have previously sworn you but No you did not Good Well regardless I was going to say if you don't mind I'll do it again Go ahead Do you swear to God or
affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do Thank you Mr Rod Ronald signage on this application is three times what's permitted right now Drive ups are not
permitted unless you're a bank or pharmacy Walkability has been in the master plan at least 30 years This location 60% drive through pickups is
not promoting walkability I ask you to enforce the current regulations I'll make a one comment that is surprising to
me I looked up um it's by GWT Energy Consulting Services Here's what the research indicates Water is necessary for virtually every phase of a restaurant's operation While there are huge disparities
according to size the average sitdown restaurant uses around 3,000 to 7,000 gallons of water daily Quick service restaurants fast foods use about a third of this I'll do the math for
you That means fast foods a,000 to 20 2,333 gallons daily This applicant worked with our sewer provider New Jersey American Water We're under a sewer
ban and this applicant says "We're going to use 600 gallons a day." Isn't it ironic that if you're under a sewer ban you get a projected flow of 600
gallons per day or less and you get approved I realize that you can't determine or judge that but just think about the ironic situation here what the volume is what they're contending where is the
integrity and honesty of this application I'm astounded Astounded as it were Thank you very much Thank you Any other members of the public okay Hearing none I'm going to close it to
the public Um okay I can't hear you Yeah I didn't hear anything I know I know what I didn't hear what you're saying I didn't say anything yet Oh sorry No Uh would you like to sum up briefly chairman first
would you grab the mic because we want this on the record Just a few quick comments I think the board Yeah is is fully aware of what's proposing And I'll call out a few salent uh points here First this is an adaptive
reuse This is not a brand new Wendy's with uh uh paneling and finishes We're taking the existing building and reusing it in a in a reasonable way We have uh an applicant here who has worked with
the board I think who has listened to the board's comments who has taken them into consideration on the signage on the uh traffic circulation as best it possibly can We have Mr Jar's comments I think they're important to consider your
own board's experts not just ours saying that the site can work reasonably perfectly no perhaps but the site could work safely and reasonably and that's your own expert and I would ask the board to give that considerable weight
as it evaluates this case I also note the most recent master plan There has been a long period of study here in Long Hill and the most recent master plan does recognize the um idea of a
drive-thru window and I think that's uh sufficient evidence for the board members here tonight to be able to reconcile That's the language from the Mediji case How do we reconcile the fact that uh the drive-thru for a restaurant
is not permitted and the way to do that is through the master plan adopted by the planning board which recognize that there are changes So we have a variety of issues Uh chairman we thank you for your time I think we have a an applicant who has engaged in the process in good
faith who has compromised in all aspects And I believe that the testimony of your own traffic expert uh has shown that the scythe can work safely with the conditions that were set forth Just to talk briefly chairman on the use
variance we need five affirmative votes Five out of the seven Yes The signage is a majority vote Yes So I'm going to leave it to the board to decide how it wants to deliberate What I am asking is that if there is a I think we're we have
consensus that there's comfort on the signage I think but I don't think all members are going to be comfortable What I don't want to have happen is that a board member votes no on the whole package because of the signage I understand where they would vote yes on
the use variance and no on the signage because the signage ultimately could be worked out I think you've heard that from my client I think they believe they have an understanding but I am I'm asking you as the chair to do the voting in a way that's appropriate for the board but I don't want to end up with a
situation where I lose a vote on the Dvarian because somebody is residually unhappy with the signage I understand that Okay We appreciate your time All right Mr Chairman if I may just uh we have one two three double check Four
five six seven eight We have eight board members We have one alternate member We have seven regular board members who will be voting Our eighth board member is Deb Our eighth board is Mr White Right I just wanted to put that on the record Is
our alternate or not voting for these purposes so you know the seven everybody understands who the seven board members who are voting on this application Bear with me one second After consulting with my legal um attorney uh we're going to vote on the
drive-thru variance first and then if that's a positive then we'll just take a majority vote for the number of signs which is right now four four um signs that are branded and one unbranded uh sign And just for clarification I would
never disclose attorney client privilege communications Um the attorney gave the advice as to what the options were right uh options Yes the chair is making the determination The board never makes I think that makes sense Jim And that's a we're going to sort of bifurcate just do
the use variance first and then a majority vote on the signage This way if the signage goes down we can come back just on the signage Now now that said Mr Chairman uh the uh any vote whether it's broken up or not broken up uh is never a
vote on yes or no It's a vote on yes with all the stipulated two conditions or no Uh denials are unconditional I always like to say Well it's all the stipulated conditions minus I guess the sign issue Well I think it makes sense
to go through all the conditions since they're mitigating conditions and in in the comprehensive application for development Okay And then the board can vote the way it wishes to vote So with that and with the board's permission Steve before you do that extend the time
of point of procedure we need to extend the meeting Okay All right Do I hear a motion to extend the meeting for 15 minutes so move Second Second All in favor i We're extended to 15 minutes The entirety of the relief sought is a
preliminary and final major site plan approval Uh and D1 use variance relief for the drive-thru component only uh associated with the restaurant whereas drive-throughs are permitted only
currently witharmacies and banks as uses I'm going to leave out all the bulk variances for the moment Um but uh the conditions if if that's the way the board's voting which I understand that to be the case first Uh the uh all the
conditions of approval that I have are uh all the items and all the various reports of the board professionals Uh as well as uh exit and enter entry directional signage uh crosswalk across the island
uh prior to the stop bar pavement markings and yield to pedestrian signs uh loading uh only when the restaurant is closed which I understand to be between the hours of midnight and 6:00 a.m And uh please correct me if I'm wrong
applicants council if I'm misstating any of the conditions that were stipulated to by the applicant Uh uh septic to be abandoned in place per the health department requirements Uh maintain existing s systems including porest pavement uh pursuant to good engineering
practices Uh we have some removal of the uh overhead structure and the uh uh cot the pavement excuse me the uh brick along the pavement I guess technically not this overhang but portion but the
the pillars Um additional landscaping between Planefield Road sidewalk and menu board uh south of the site triangle uh to screen illumination of the menu board
per I'm using singular uh per our uh subject to the review and approval of our board engineer encourage employee parking nearest to the trash enclosure A sign uh that articulated vehicles i.e trailers or buses or trucks
large trucks or large trucks the verbiage will be sufficient to fit on a modest sign uh uh uh uh uh uh are prohibited uh and that'll be subject to the review and approval of our engineer both our engineer and our traffic
engineer Crash clearance bar uh height will be reduced to 9 ft at the entrance of the driveway uh and be combined with signage I'm sorry of the drive-thru entrance of the drive-thru of the drive interest of
the drive-thru uh and uh uh in combination with appropriate signage Bear with me There were a fair number Um supplemental landscaping to screen even further supplemental landscaping to screen the menu board view along
Planefield Road uh with at least 6' tall tree line uh 6' tall at installation uh tree line and if possible otherwise filtering of the visibility of those menu boards since they are a TV screen
like Um we've lost so to speak eliminated one of the menu boards Uh the directional signs will not have logos on them but the colorant color is appropriate The recognized color is
appropriate Uh the monument sign will be down lit The wall signage I believe was ultimately viewed to be down lit as well Um and uh we're removing the brick base and uh getting to the columns if you
will and the and the and the the cement Yep I'm going to get there and adding ballards Still keeping the 6-in curb and we're shrink shrinking the median uh such that uh there will is expected to be an approximate 8 to 12
inch additional uh uh uh uh width on either side thereof And the rest was planning Not to say that there can't be conditions stipulated to during the planner's testimony but as is often the case I
don't believe there was anymore Uh so I think those are all the stipulated two conditions Did I forget any no No If everybody's in agreement uh that is what the board is voting on first I've saved the four variances all
related to signage and the one exception uh that related to illumination uh you probably remembered it but that's I understand it going to be for a second vote So you have all the relief sought for this vote as well as
all the conditions associated therewith which are part of your consideration uh and uh as council for the applicant stated five out of seven for passage on the D1 use variance component of this application for development Okay Tom
would you start the declaration please absolutely First I'd like to thank everybody This was a long and ardous pro process and I think we've gotten to a place where everybody knows where we where they think they are Uh currently we have a building that's
not being used It's in the middle of our downtown business district Um one of our two downtowns Uh it currently has a drive-thru and we're looking for variance for that drive-thru for a different b for a bit
different type of business a quick food business Um I'm glad that people have read the master plan and see that uh it is looking towards the future and not towards the past its future is looking for a more vibrant downtown We will we
do want more foot traffic I do not think that putting a Wendy's on this corner is going to uh in any way take away from foot traffic that exists in town and may just by its inherent use of being a place to go to for more people than just
banking may actually increase foot traffic in this part or other parts very near to there where there there are some competition I don't want to speak to the competition I want to speak to the use Um I'm very glad that the Ballards are being going to be corrected I drove
through this property the other day and myself with my own car with nobody else there and I was a little nervous about how tight that was and I think making the the the the pillars or peers uh smaller will make driving through that
area uh easier I know we're not talking about signage but just looking at this property as it is as it as it exists today and towards the future I think there's been some great work done by
this board and also by the applicant and I thank you and I will be in favor of uh approving this drive-thru Thank you Uh Jerry Um again I'll thank everybody I'll try not to be redundant but thank
everybody for accommodating the board um and all of the wishes that we had and and our professionals comments for addressing all of those I appreciate that And thank you for bearing with us on me particular on the in-depth questions I had regarding the zoning and
and the use Um I would like to be in favor of this However I cannot Um I'll get past the I'll get past the zone At first I thought it was definitely impairing uh on our an impairment to our zone Um I still might believe that a little bit but even if I get past that I
cannot get past that this is not particularly well suited for the use Um given that place on the corner the constraints even with the signs not I don't believe that I'm disagreeing with any engineer or professional or traffic study I just think that what I've heard
is that you know from the number of signs that we need and the and the radius of the turns even though we're correcting that and I think the tightness of that the way the box truck has to park in one spot I mean what if the guys knew all of this stuff to me it's just it's it's not a particularly
well suited spot I'm going to go with that And then also um we are trying to make that a more pedestrian friendly area Whether you agree with that or not I think that that attracting uh more drive-through restaurants to an area that we're trying to have a walkable
downtown is an inherent conflict and I can't get past that So for that reason I'm not going to be in favor of this application Jonathan so I think that we all know this is a current situation with this building is
not a productive building Um and as the and again you know thank everybody for all their hard work in trying to get this to be up to a place where we can uh be approved of this I think that uh I don't
necessarily agree with some of the other comments that were made so far tonight I think that this actually does meet the um you know it's it it's suited for this place I think I understand that I we can't sit up here and debate what the
master plan you know the the suitability of the master plan but I feel our whole discussion about making this more walkable I think we we we have to look go back and say what do we have here we we you know I've lived in towns where there were walkable areas We have one
area of this town which is much more walkable This is a main corridor This unfortunately what the situation we're in right now is we have a lot of vacant buildings in this corridor This I don't think this is going to be a detriment to the master plan or to the zone I think
it I don't know that it's necessarily going to increly increase walkability But I don't think that any build you know we could put a we could put an ice cream parlor in this building and I don't think it would increase walkability I think it's just the nature of the area where we are right now Um
you have sidewalks I just actually literally walked there today because I was at you know had to and this whole town is not walkable It's just by definition of what this is It's that that's not I don't know that this will improve walkability you know and it
might as their planner said bring more people to the area I don't know that they're going to walk too many places but I still don't think that the um you know what the proposed use of this uh is a detriment I don't think I think they've proven the negative criteria on that uh and then the positive as well So
I will be in support of this application for the D1 variance Thank you Tom Randy Um yeah usually I I'll try to make a glib comment and be funny but at a you know out of respect for everyone's time and um you know concerns everyone
expressed the presentations and stuff I'll refrain Um I'm gonna vote in favor of it Um I was hoping that the drive-through overhang could be eliminated I didn't appreciate though the fan and the crazy stuff on top Um so I understand that that was a bigger
issue I didn't understand why it couldn't have been removed until these pictures So that really helped visualize that for myself I really do appreciate the applicant willing to minimize it get those bricks on the bottom I think that's going to solve a lot of the problems which again I I thought as as
it exists now probably isn't doable So I I appreciate all that Um I agree that I don't know how Well whatever I'm just going to leave it at that I'm going to vote in favor and uh but I do thank everyone I thank the public and especially the applicants uh time Thank
you Gary Um so I know that uh we're voting on just the drive-through I don't understand the the separation as opposed to voting for this whole thing at once But I do know that if it didn't have a drive-thru there wouldn't be a
drive-through sign which is one of the things we'll talk about next And rather than go on too much longer because we're going to have to extend it again I agree with uh what most of my colleagues have said here And I'd be in favor of this drive-thru part
of this application Thank you Um I'm Alex Oh Alex I'm sorry Alex Sorry Sorry Alex I'm sorry I started and jumped back and forth I'm sorry Um concur with all the comments that have been made um by by all the board
members and appreciate the input from the applicant as well as the as well as the public Um one thing I do want to comment about is is the walkability We're sitting in the parking lot where walkability would be starting from in this town There really isn't a public
parking lot here but this is it Um and this actually extends that walkability I think because when I drive by it in in in matter of course of the day I'll see people walking along and make that turn into Burger King or walk and make that turn into into into this into this
proposed location as well So I see I see a a viable business coming into a location that currently has nothing and that's important to the prosperity of our town and uh I'll be voting in support of the application Thank you Alex Sorry Um I also agree with the
majority of my board I think that uh the applicant has been very flexible on this I do appreciate every time we made up a comment they accommodated us I do appreciate them making the drive-thru bigger by narrowing or widening or
widening the black top area and narrowing the column area because I think that was a uh issue there and I and I think that would cause a problem in the future for you Um and I do appreciate the fact that they are working with an existing building and not putting up something that looks like
a traditional Wendy's if if there is such a thing Um and I do appreciate the comments from the public Uh we always listen to the public Uh we but we have to take everything that has been said to us by the applicant everything that has
been testified to by our experts as as well as the traffic expert We have to take that into consideration and we have to work around that and decide whether this site uh is a negative or positive And I think they've met the negative criteria I think the positive criteria
is that it will be rejuvenating a building and an area that has been vacant Um I think that uh whether it's a Wendy's or some other business that needs a drive-thru I don't think the drive-thru is a detriment Uh I I think
that it's not going to impair the walkability There's other towns that have drive-throughs with sidewalks that people walk on Uh I think until we get a complete sidewalk from one end of Main Street to all the way down to past Planefield I don't think it's going to
be that walkable to begin with So you know I think the walkability lies in other areas sometimes that we have to look at and that's yet to be determined by by this board or by whatever board determines it Um but I would be in favor of it So uh
in that respect um so uh I think the uh roll call vote I believe Mr Chairman on the uh do I relief is there a motion do we have to do a motion motion second roll over Do I have a motion to approve this application with the Dvarian for
the drive-thru so moved Do I have a second okay Mr Rosenberg yes Vice Chairman Gman yes Mr Aronia no Mr Gianis yes Mr Watts yes
Mr Zedznney yes Chairman correct yes Motion carries Okay Now we have the issue of the signs which is a majority vote We have to extend the meeting again Yeah let's extend it for another 10 minutes No let's do it till 11 Do I have a
motion to 11 got a resolution done right so moved Well we might put off those resolutions We have a second Second All in favor i Okay Uh real quick the res the uh variances at issue again are number of wall signs four versus one
permitted max permitted area Oh that was number of wall signs Area of wall signs Got to follow my scribble 75.11 verse square feet versus 25 square feet Uh ground number ground signs two versus technically none permitted I
guess Uh and uh no they had a ground sign right well no Okay the the uh that's what I'm reading from the ordinance No they're permitted but it it it's a relationship between how big their under the circumstance I'm sorry Right Under the
circumstance Right So two versus none under the circumstance Right And area of ground signs uh 53.57 square ft versus uh I had one one professional tells zero with the other say 16 square feet
the uh either way 53.57 square ft is substantial is excuse me no judgment is greater than either zero or 16 square ft So those are the four variances and then yeah there were well that that was a
condition yes but uh not a variance but and the design excuse me the uh exception uh is for the average illumination exceeding the maximum per minute Uh those are the five additional items of relief that you're now voting
on Not uh all of which require a only a majority for passage not uh four out of seven when I do the hard math Okay Does everybody understand what the conditions that you I do not I have a question on
the average illumination exceeding the maximum permitted Can someone explain that maybe Joe can you handle that is that would be the lighting in the parking lot Okay Um the stipulations were that the intent of the application
was to retrofit the lighting to replace bulbs to the existing Yeah to the existing approval Thank you for that Yeah Okay All right Alex I'm going to let you start this one um in in thinking about the signage that was proposed I was happy to see the
flexibility from the applicant in reducing based upon our our comments Uh so you know as I mentioned before I'm going to make it short and sweet in in in consideration of time I would vote to to approve it Okay Um go ahead Jerry Um
again with this one I'm not going to change any position on this I mean they've got the use Um I would like to see our ordinance upheld here I'd like to see one sign as permitted and I'd like to see you conform to it I think that's a nice trend to set for our town in the future of Valley Road So if we're
going to have this type of development I think we should uh maybe not do what everybody else does and have all kinds of like neon signs and back lit signs You just go with some kind of like down wooden sign and that's leave it at that
Okay Jonathan Um I think The applicant has been has listened to concerns a lot of the concerns regarding the signs I think that this is because of the positioning of this building on a corner of two you know it's not similar to
other you know unnamed restaurants that we have here where they have multiple facing uh you know sides that they and obviously as a business they want their business to be recognizable And this building is you know they they've gone out of their way to keep the existing
building they could have tried to you know knock it down and build a brand new building that was more recognizable I think because of that there the need for additional they've shown that there isn't a need for additional signage uh to make this a more recognizable you know not just look at it and think it's
a bank So I would be in support of the I guess the proposed proposed signage as as we as we've listed Thank And just to be clear all relief including the average illumination exceeds Yeah Yeah That too Tom
Uh I concur with Mr Rosenberg and I will say that uh I I look at the signage and I'm very thankful that you are are cleaning up some of the initial intent Uh I I do not see how it's going to be
uh the signage will be um detrimental to life in this town It's you going to have three sides with the sign up in the apex and and one uh freestanding sign Um I think it's probably going to help people find your
location rather than try and scout it out So in that effect I I am in favor of it Gary I disagree with most of my colleagues here uh with regards to the signs and I'm not in favor with uh the variance that is being proposed for them
It's not a variance a design variance right well no tech No it is a variance Yeah Yeah Four bulk four bulk variances one one exception I'm not going to say design waiver ever again in front of Joe All right Sorry Okay Randy Thank Chuck McGertie for that I'm in favor of all
the design variances um and the signs Uh my biggest issue was the inner illuminated monument sign on Valley Y'all took care of that um I think at the last meeting Um so I'm I'm in favor of it Yeah I I also appreciate the uh
applicant um scaling down the signs and I understand that is somewhat of a compromise and and uh I I don't feel it's going to affect your marketability on that corner I think you have more visibility than most of the restaurants
in town So I believe the three peak ones plus the message board that's considered a sign and your freestanding monument sign is is even though it's beyond our ordinance I believe it's reasonable and and would um enhance the uh the uh
suitability of the building So I would be in favor of it So uh do I have a motion to approve the signs as proposed so moved Second Second Vocal And just for clarification this is all additional relief variances and the one uh
exception for the illumination exceedence Yes Mr Zudraman Yes Vice Chairman Gar Yes Mr Arono No Mr Giannakis No Mr Rosenberg
Yes Mr Watts Yes Chairman Gre Yes Thank you for your time members We really appreciate it We do We do have six minutes You want to do the resolutions guys let's do them real quick Let's do them Hold those people up Hold those people up Okay We only got two of them right two of them Am I
correct okay Okay Yeah Stretch Yeah Um we have Bolan Uh the board will remember that was a bulk variance for lot coverage ratio exceedence for an existing deck Hopefully it accurately memorializes the
board's uh decision uh to approve that application Uh bear with I thought it was he usually puts Yeah there we go unanimously Uh seven to zero with the conditions stipulated
Okay I'll move application number 2424Z Motion to approve Do I hear a second second Okay All in favor bear with me Deb Yep Uh our motion Mr Rono and second by Vice Chair G We need a roll call
They're qualified correct yes Yes Okay The only one The only one that isn't is Mr G The only one that is not in this is Mr G All right So the motion was by Mr Rooney Mr Rooney Yes And vice chairman Groskoff Yes Mr Rosenberg Yes Mr Watts Yes Mr Zra
Yes Mr White Yes Yes Just want to make sure though everybody else did vote on it They were part of the seven Okay Who are here tonight yes Okay Okay I'm sorry Please You're done What's that did you finish yes Yeah Okay Great Yes The next one I'm
not eligible for So I'm Yeah The next one is Ronald Rodriguez 441 Chess Street I am not eligible but I can preside over the vote No On this one it's Chairman uh Vice Chairman Groskov Yeah Mr Rosenberg Mr Watts Mr Sosny and Mr White The vice
chair will call for the motion the second and the roll call vote Can I get a Can I get a motion i'll I'll move that All right I'll second Okay And roll call vote please Mr Zi yes Mr Rosenberg yes
Mr Watts yes Mr Weiss yes Vice Chairman yes Thank you guys Now we got them Motion to adjurnn Close the meeting So do I I have a motion to adjurnn Everyone in favor Oh my god