##VIDEO ID:XD9vc7fKbBk## and Miss Baron for the strong start flexible seating equals students ready to learn Round of Applause for them in absentia Miss rpan has also contributed to the musical instruments at Blueberry Hill School big round of applause to her thank you very much sorry am I grabing from oh I have no idea what you're grabbing from at this point um so let's see who is remaining who hasn't received their agile so miss Barry all right we have Miss Barry we're going to see if if Leaf parents know what they're doing and alphabets hey Miss Barry come on up here thank you very much concept quest for bridges in mathematics thank you very much all right we have Miss Canden here for literacy in the world language classroom thank you we have Mr Cormier for English Department classroom libraries thank you very much all right thank you all right we have Dr Tom Evasion for instrument acquisition double Bas and trombone thank [Applause] you this is impressive work on your part right now miss Gallow for golf for life but you do a great job thank you is there anyone else who is waiting on something perfect well we're going to make sure that everybody gets these and I want to thank everyone for coming out today and I just want to underscore one more time that as a parent um as a colleague I just I'm really appreciative of all the hard work that you do you're what makes Long Meadow schools so special right it's not the buildings it's not this check it's it's you all because you do the work to make it all happen so thank you so much for your time I'm sure you have lesson planning to get to to so thank you all for coming and I hope you have a great evening than that being said if we want to do a group picture all standing up here I'm not going to say no so let's all come on up shall we we are the green club and we have an important message just do what do one thing dot stands for do one thing encourages you to make simple Lifestyle Changes known as D which has a positive impact on our environment most of these Planet saving changes can be done in me likely won't cost you anything and in fact could probably save your parents money no one thing how can one person doing one thing Poss have an impact on saving the planet do one thing time little things can make a big difference and as individuals we each have the power to make small changes every day # do one thing do one thing I invite you to make a personal commitment today we challenge every adult and child to join us we have many ideas or you can make up one of your own do one thing if you save for instance a quit of waterit every day by turning the top off and brushing your teeth te family and friends to do the same in turn their family and friends to get the same in a short amount of time by working together you would save thousands of gallons of water all by making a a small change in your daily routine which didn't cost do a thing saved you money and of course saved you precious drinking water do one thing some other ideas I can reuse a water bottle I can put my rubbish in the right bin doing thing I can take a shorter shower I can recycle plastic bags I can be my snack in a useable container do one thing I can start composting at my house I can turn off the TV when no one is watching during winter I can open curtains of blast to let in any sunshine and close them in the evening to keep in the heat I can save computer paper by printing on both sides I can turn off the lights when I leave the room use pasta straws do one thing we are recycling as much as we can but we know that recycling is not the real solution over 90% of the plastic ever made has not been recycled instead it ends up in landfills the environment or releasing toxic pollutions we cannot simply recycle our way through this crisis do one thing we asking you to make a commitment to do one thing do one thing thank you for helping do one thing Center School in Long Meadow won second place in the Northeast region of the trck challenge with 5,27 lbs congratulations [Music] I've struggled with substance use the majority of my life probably between 25 and 30 years I never thought that you could live a happy fun fulfilled life free from drugs and alcohol um I've been clean and sober for the last 18 plus months and this is the first time in my life I've ever been clean and sober 100% [Music] I couldn't imagine what life would be like if I wasn't clean right now I don't know how I would be able to deal with the connection between my son and I I don't know that there would be a connection when I am getting high I am disconnected from everything in life and I would not want to imagine life without the connection that my son and I have I currently work for the heart team here based out of a new way Recovery Center I do consider our role as recovery coaches we go into the hospitals to sell hope a lot of the time when I meet somebody in the emergency rooms I'm going to try to talk to them and figure out what experiences they have in recovery where they want their recovery to go I want to figure out with them as a resource in their own recovery what they want their recovery to look like and then try to get them plugged into their respective community in recovery that would most benefit them literally every day when I'm working I utilize the helpline because it's my first go-to I don't know what somebody's path and Recovery is going to be when I meet them but if they say I want to get on a methodone Clinic I pick up the phone I call the help line and they'll give me a list of methodone clinics in the area that take that insurance and boom more off and running I feel like I experience more highs now than I ever did in all my years of drug use places like this a new way Recovery Center showed me how I can experience those Highs but the help is here it's free it it's here for the taken come and get it please we want to give it to you and then you can give it away so the best way to get it out there is everybody helping each other is the only way this thing is going to work [Music] [Music] e e e e e e the chair no I think we're all set thank you welcome to the January 21st 2025 meeting of the long met select board this is Select board chair ven haavi I will be confirming that all members and persons anticipated on the agenda are present and can hear me Members when I call your name please respond in the affirmative Dano Here Andrew lamb here Mark gold here Josh LaVine here staff when I call your name please respond in the affirmative Lyn Simmons here Mike barbier here this open meeting of the long meow select board is convened in person and Via Zoom webinar as posted on the agenda and Town's website identifying how the public may join there's no chat or Q&A function all the materials for this meeting are available on the agenda posted on Longet ma.gov the public is encouraged to follow along using the posted agenda unless I note otherwise this meeting will feature resident comment for residents attending the meeting in person please raise your hand when we get to the comment section of the meeting and I will call on you to approach the microphone for residents participating in the meeting via Zoom webinar format please use the raise hand icon at the bottom of the screen the meeting moderator will promote you to panelist unmute you and give you permission to speak if you join the webinar by phone dial Star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to mute unmute residents who wish to speak will identify their names and addresses only each individual is afforded three minutes for comments please note that this meeting is being recorded and that some attendees are participating by video conference please remember to mute your phone or computer when you're not speaking if anyone in attendance is recording this meeting please announce yourself now Sarah H and reminding news thank you anyone else all right and we will begin now with the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for the annual town meeting and and this is these are the select board announcements that we'll begin with the annual town meeting has been set for Tuesday May 13th at 700 p.m. in the LHS gym citizen petition articles with certification by the town clerk are due in the select board's office no later than 4:30 p.m. on Monday January 27th for additional information please visit Long Meadow ma.gov toown meeting the town of Long Meadow has launched a survey to help gauge citizen sentiment about the town's athletic fields generally and the interest in pursuing a synthetic field for for the High School Stadium Field we encourage you to participate in the survey by visiting long meow ma.gov Civic alerts the town is pleased to announce the commencement of work approved by voters at the 2024 fall special town meeting to create a town-owned fiber network over the next several weeks residents will see field Engineers from Precision Valley Communications Gathering mapping information and existing utility distribution networks for engineering and design planning this critical information will inform the town's planning of a town-owned fiber Network to view the full press release please visit long meow ma.gov Civic alerts and we will now move into resident comments do we have any residents here make a resident comment Tom come on up name address Tom Shay 81 Green Meadow Drive I'm speaking tonight regarding the select board meeting of December 16th regarding the process and non- reappointment of Richard Foster as a board of assessor boa member Mr Foster is a veteran previous Capital planning member for three years select board member for nine B OFA member for the past one and a half years and a resident for 16 years the vaa is very important that it sets real estate and personal property value ations poses the tax rate and handles abatements it impacts every residents and commercial property in town a member needs to know neighborhoods property conditions and some Municipal Finance which we all know is sometimes difficult all five select board members praised Mr Foster for his many years of service to the town getting certified and joining the boa when the town had a dire need as well as his work on the bo I believe all were sincere except for one Mr Zeller the former chair of the ba boa and 15-year member in a letter of recommendation dated December 4th contained in tonight's select board agenda and read at the appointment meeting was a strong endorsement of Mr Foster concluding with I think he is a great asset as a board member Mr Zeller has subsequently resigned from the boa due to recent actions of the select board and his letter is contained in tonight's agenda he was dismayed and took umbrage at the words of certain select board members such was also an affront to his service the reason for electing a different candidate and not Mr Foster were the need for new eyes and a fresh start I repeat new eyes and a fresh start the term new eyes is recognized as likely age discriminatory or agism in essence new eyes is better than someone with older eyes two of the select board members that did not endorse Mr Foster voted for him for the boa position on September 6 2022 what drove over the change in support there at least six of us here who know the real story Mr mlan is likely to do a fine job once she passes the exams given the numerous vacancies on other boards Mr mlan should have been recruited for another position where there was an opening in conclusion remember words have consequences what message do these statements and actions give the 40% of long meta voting age citizens over the age of 60 who have lived here and paid tax for decades tonight the select board and town management need to answer two questions is there a quum of the boa can it conduct normal business en a to process abatements starting February 4th are there issues or problems in the boa such as with the town's assessments or tax rate calculations or abatements that would need new eyes and a fresh start we got about 10 seconds left I believe that certain select board members owe an apology to Mr Foster Mr Zeller the citizens along Meadow especially the older ones thank you thank you any other resident comments anyone online uh no no okay we'll move forward with uh interview and appointments so we've got a board and committee appointment we have Rebecca Lindsay who interviewed with us at our last meeting uh She interviewed for a position with the diversity equity and inclusion advisory committee for a vacant three-year term um I move that we appoint Rebecca Lindsay to the vacant three-year term expiring on June 30th 2027 second any further discussion uh all those in favor all right great we will move on next to select board comments um I just had one comment that I'd like to make um a couple weeks ago we were contacted by the local policy lab which is a nonprofit organization out of California uh they provide consulting services to local governments all over the country for different items that local governments need assistance with and they were working with the city of Missoula Montana and a few other cities um and helping these local governments create task forces uh to address different Community needs and so in their research all over the country and looking at how different local governments had created task forces and operated them they came across the municipal fiber task force and they did research um on our work looked at you know what we did and found that we were you know exemplary in the way that we operated uh and what we were able to deliver and the quality of work that we were able to to deliver so they wanted to meet with us to learn more about the work that we did um and you know we had an opportunity to share our experience so it is good to you know obviously be recognized but it's also good to know that some of what we learned um while we did the work of the municipal fiber task force can now be used you know all over the country uh to help other towns um you know be able to use a task force to engage citizens to lean on the expertise of their uh you know of their Town residents and also be able to conduct more work than you know what uh just town government itself could could uh could do so uh that was that was good to do um anyone else Mark I have a a series of things I uh just the Lynn had it in her monthly report but I think it's important to note that Lynn and it was Andre Chason and I attended the Department of Public Utilities hearing on on Municipal aggregation it was probably the shortest public hearing I we've ever been at in our life but I think it was important that that people be there representing long Med manage management elected officials and public officials and you know I I haven't heard the results of it yet but um I suspect it'll be uh very positive also I've attended a a building committee meeting on the 13th of January and I think we need to continue to work with the building committee and and help them better understand their role in assessing both the capital plan for buildings and other activities for buildings I think it's uh they're they're kind of looking for our guidance to to a large extent uh was at the recycling committee meeting on the 10th of January and then a specific meeting talking about the recycling of uh or excuse me the pickup of of recycling materials uh that that meeting was subsequent to that on the 13th the the uh that committee is planning a public Outreach on on the new trash recycling pickup and and Hauling systems with carts that are being delivered and we hope that that there'll be something on our website soon and and certainly that'll go out in advance of the July 1st new uh trash hauling contract uh the the the other thing I just wanted to two things just remind people yesterday or yeah yesterday for Sunday night we had the first substantial snow in town and there's a good number of people who are you know having trouble difficulty shoveling sidewalk clearing uh clearing fire hydrant it is required to do that I know that the uh Adult Center used to have a list of people who were able to or willing to help some seniors in town who are having trouble doing their own clearing and I would encourage people to do that but you really do need to uh clear the sidewalks and and and and the fire hydrant uh finally I want to just comment on two letters of resignation that we got in the town uh the first one was a resignation and I'd like to think of it as Retirement from elino Stoler who's resigned from the the Council on Aging Elanor uh served the town for many many many many years uh she will uh she's the first person who suggested and then recommended and pushed hard for the construction of a new Adult Center uh and her input to the town as as interesting as it often is will be will be sorely missed but I I think we need to recognize Eleanor's many many years of work on behalf of the town and I wanted to do that the other resignation was mentioned in uh in the public comments Michael zelers resigned from the the uh Board of board of assessors Michael served the board for 15 years and also did an amazing job when at some points there were very very few people on the board of assessors to get us through what is a critical critical uh function in the town from people who are looking for uh either abatements or other discussions about their uh their their assessments so I want to thank both Michael Zeller and elanar Stoler for their many many years of service to the town great thank you anyone else Josh I don't like to respond to resident comments but those accusations are absolutely untrue uh there's more to appointments or reappointments in past service and it's not the whole story and if anybody wants to I'm happy to share share the whole story fast but I'm not going to do it in public and I don't appreciate those accusations yeah thanks um completely agree with Mark uh on on Ellen or Stoler um I've known elener for several years in town and she's done a she has a lot of energy she has a lot of opinions um smart wom and she's dedicated several years to uh to our community even uh most recently uh on the C on the board uh COA board as well so wanted to um make sure I acknowledged um Mrs Stoler as well as U Mr Zeller I was going to acknowledge Him him towards the end of our meeting with the correspondents but um really do appreciate his several years of service to our community a huge asset to our community and um I'm sad to see him go but I'm sure we can get some other folks to to step up for the role but again I I really appreciate Mr Zeller and and all of his contributions to uh our community uh right here in Long Meadow so thank you um also I I just wanted to mention you probably saw on Facebook but the uh the recent long M fire department and the rescue of of the dog that was in distress that went through the ice down at The Meadows so um just goes to show all the training and and the professionalism of our fire department on a on a regular basis um keeping us safe and our animals safe um I'm just very thankful for that so thank you for the fire department and their their Swift efforts on rescuing the dog um at The Meadows and then also uh an unfortunate event on on South a as well with our our police uh police department working with federal agents and the work that they did um to appr apprehend a suspect taking um firearms firearms out of our community as well as drugs as well so you know many times people think you're in Long Meadow and these things don't happen but it's unfortunate it's an epidemic across our country and I just truly um I'm thankful that our fire and police continue to do good things for our community so I just I want to make sure that I uh spoke up on that so thank you very much great thank you Andrew um uh one just one comment I enjoyed going to one of the latest CPC meetings I just wanted everyone to know that there is a public hearing on February 11th for the CPC articles those are very there's a lot of important ones that year including for a possibility of Glen Brook Fields being redone and that's an important one that I think the commun we'd love to get community input on because there's you know there's the fields need work but also it's going to be part of a possible um larger uh you have to take a larger view sometimes because Glenbrook the middle school might be uh changed obviously if a middle if a new Middle School is built at the Williams site so I think there's you know I think it's a very um interesting conversation about when those fields are done and I think it's important to get as much input as possible so February 11th for the CPC public hearing great thank you all right uh we'll move along to town management report thank you uh so first on my report tonight is the vacancy in the Westcom executive director position um the Westcom first executive director has resigned and we are seeking an interim executive director the job posting is linked on my report uh the assistant Town manager um I'm going to share some transitional news regarding Karin Micey muns who as everyone knows is the assistant Town manager planning community development director Karin will be leaving the town along long manow to take a position with the state department of energy and environmental Affairs Karin has been um doing much of the same she will be doing much of the same work that she's currently doing for the town but on a much larger scale uh and the state unfortunately or fortunately for Ken uh saw the amazing work that she does here in town and um has offered her the position which she's accepted we wish her nothing but the best uh and the um steps to fill her positioner in the works uh a long range plan update as all of you know the town won um a mass chapter award from the American Planning Association this was presented at a Statewide event a couple weeks ago and at that event uh one of the other planners from another Community saw long Meadows plan and has reached out and asked if they could submit it to a national award with the American Planning Association small town and Rural division which we agreed to we're helping to gather support letters for that it's likely a long shot that we will win a national award but it is still great recognition especially from a here uh in the eastern part of the state um I have some updates here regarding the tree Warden uh as we know the tree warden's been um working on public education and she's made significant progress on January 7th Leah attended the mass tree Warden and Foresters annual conference and presented co-presented a lecture that discusses the changing demographic in the world of Arbor culture including age gender sexuality and race Leah's goal is to not only give but also to gain perspective from underrepresented groups in the tree work industry to bring back ideas on how to promote diversity and Meadows forestry division and in addition the tree Warden has been accepted to the urban and Community forestry society's Municipal forestry Institute this is a week-long program that teaches students soft skills required in Municipal forestry work during the last week in February she'll be in California attending an intensive educational program to master leadership and management tools for program and administration strategic thinking in public relations Dei forums recently were held um the first first one on January 9th the this was put on by the diversity equity and inclusion committ committee uh they are they have scheduled six learner forums at the adult center the first one was embracing our differences the forums are open to any and all to join the reminder had great coverage of this event and in last week's publication I've linked that story in my report information on the next forum will be shared in my next monthly Town manager newsletter uh as was mentioned in select board comments the municipal aggregation process is ongoing on January 15th the Department of Public Utilities held a public hearing on the town's Municipal aggregation plan the only public comment received was in support of the plan comments were made by select board member gold energy and sustainability committee chair Chason and I also spoke in support of the plan this was one of the required steps in moving the plan Town's plan forward and we're still on target for approval in the spring a request for qualifications for Town Hall Old Town Hall and Community House was released in December bids were due on December 20th unfortunately we received no bid responses internally we discussed options and before we separate the project into two or three separate projects we're speaking with Consultants that have that we've used on other projects to see if we can uh entertain interests from any of them to submit a response uh if any of those um Consultants are not available or not interested then will pursue separating the workout uh Converse Street L project easements as was announced at the last select board meeting easement letters were sent to 72 Property Owners with compensation values for the easements calls and questions have been received by the DPW engineering team there were also requests to receive to receive copies of the appraisal reports from those individual homeowners um on the advice of Town Council appraisal reports are confidential or executive session material until after taking orders have been recorded and um a bit of good news um the with regarding a malfunction of the hot water tank at the adult center on Friday December 27th the custodian at the adult center investigated a smell and found the water tank on fire his quick identification and response um his quick identification and the quick response from the long metal fire department saved us from what could have been a very big issue fire was isolated and no damage to the building or injuries happened the town's plumbing contractor was on site quickly and determined to be a common electrical issue with that type of unit the warranty has been reviewed and a new unit has been ordered um the repair has been completed and a big thank you to Hector for his quick work in notifying the fire department that concludes my report tonight I'm happy to take any questions um I'll just start off by just saying that uh you know Karin is going to be a big loss and but I'm excited for her in this new opportunity uh the state is going to be very lucky to have her in this role but she's just done such great work for the town and will be really hard to replace but you know excited for her and wish her the best of luck um and I also just wanted to really quickly comment that in the DPW monthly report I saw that progress was being made on filling three uh vacancies uh I think one had already been filled and two others offers had been made so that was good to see that uh we're seeing movement there especially after some the um negotiations from last year on on DPW wages um anyone else I did I did notice um in the building uh report so on Williams Street uh by Kinder Care where the old synagogue was that property so that was the first time that I noticed it but um it appears that there's going to be six like a Housing Development there um I don't I don't know if you know more about it but I'm sure there's a lot of people especially on Churchill uh Drive I think it is right next door um who would be pretty interested to to learn more about that so I assume is we're going to go through the process and um you know planning uh planning board will will have its say as well but that was just one of the things that stuck out to me um that six new uh houses I believe will be uh built there yeah uh there's been preliminary discussions nothing has been filed yet this is our third um iteration of inter entertaining conversations with prospective developers third you know of L it's probably the fifth or six third in the time I've been here um and so we'll await something to be filed but there have been preliminary discussions about six uh single units great anyone else okay all right we will uh move on then to approval of meeting minutes so there are draft meeting minutes attached um and uh I will uh I move that we approve the December 16th uh 2024 meeting minutes subject to the uh revisions that Mark probably sent Mike I didn't because I I haven't read them I just got them two o'clock this afternoon so I didn't see okay I I haven't read him all right I'm going to I'm going to abstain okay that's fine second second all right any further discussion all right uh all those in favor all those opposed abstain all right next up is our Municipal life plant board discussion so I just this is just to kind of close the loop a little bit on some of the discussions that we had um in December so attached it's a legal opinion that U was requested from Town Council about the vote and a copy of the intergovernmental agreement that we entered into with Fiers spring um I think some of you all probably saw the press release last week we had a kickoff meeting with Fiers spring where we were able to meet with uh connect them with DPW uh to begin coordination of efforts there um so that we could deconflict projects it was a great meeting and I think the town got to see why the task force recommended fibers spring in the way that they are thinking ahead of uh you know a couple steps ahead how thoughtful they are with their work and so that uh was a good meeting and then uh this week they started with their uh you know field walkouts to start assessing polls and collecting information on polls and there's a press release that that went out about that and I think you know folks probably seen some of the signs around town and seen some of the engineers around town beginning that work the um design and engineering and the poll applications should take about uh well the walkouts should should take a few weeks uh maybe four or five weeks uh but the complete package of design and Engineering uh they said should be completed around July and so that point we will have what the town will look like with different fiber hoods we will have an actual dollar amount uh for the project um and then you know we'll be able to assess what to do after that we were discussing in December at our last meeting about the municipal life plant board and you know some of the options with how we could populate that board one was through election and we talked about how if we went through election the board would be seated in June 2026 uh if the select board were to serve as a missile life plant board that could happen in September of this year so I I think at least my sense was was that the board was leading towards the select board serving as the municipal life board but had a couple of other questions U you know one of the one of the things that we talked about was having the uh the task force turn into an advisory type of board for the select board uh which I think was a good idea and then there was also questions about a municipal Life Plan manager so I did you know go out and talk to fibers spring about that and I talk to some of the other uh municipalities around us uh to kind of get pick their brains and get their thoughts on it and what kind of the the consensus that everyone kind of came back to me with was that at this point of the project or at least for the next couple of years where we have a select board we have an Advisory Group we have fibers spring who were paying to do a lot of this stuff we don't really need a municipal life plant manager that's full-time that we're paying a stipend or a salary to that for the time being we could have a volunteer MLP manager um and this would be someone that basically serve as a liaison between Fiers spring and the town Fiers spring is going to be holding bi-weekly meetings about the project here in Long Meadow so this person could attend the meetings and um you know basic report back to the town um Lynn and I kind of discussed this briefly and there is a member of the task force Ben Brown who did the presentation at town meeting who you know he runs the the whole network for um the university Massachusetts um and knows more about this than you know most folks that he would be a good person to have serve in this role um and he's you know said he's been willing to do it um and that's kind of how we can start off with this and and see how it's going but um you know I think you know we can based on where our conversation was last time it seems like if we are going to go with the select board um serving as the mpal life plant board then we can you know see that the there's an article placed on the town meeting warrant in May um to you know for that purpose for the for the select board to serve as the MLP board but those those are kind of the updates from um our last meeting on December 16th but you know open it up to any comments thoughts anything Mark so I still like the concept of an MLP manager and I know we nobody's discussed this at all but we have a vacancy at the highest levels of our town Administration right now and and I don't know what Lynn has in mind we've never talked about this of you we just going to hire somebody direct replacement for for Karin or we going to potentially look at restructuring that position and that might be an opportunity for us to consider having somebody there who does planning but maybe has this additional task and and I I just want to bring that up because it's it's it's an opportunity that doesn't come very frequently and and uh it's it my opinion solves a significant number of issues yeah and with MLP manager a decision doesn't need to be made now or anything you know right now we can have someone just serve as a liaison um and then you know after MLP board is formed we can talk more about the manager but um but that was just part of the conversation we were having so I just wanted to provide updates on what I'd heard back from folks to Mark's point though I think um obviously we're going to be posting the the job rather soon right so I mean I think that's it's a really good point mark to we should probably um have something um you know in the job description around fiber to see if we can attract a candidate that has a background as well to a large extent it's up to Lynn but I I want to you know I I don't know if you were going to restructure if she's going to restructure that job or just the direct but you're right Dan I mean that that was my point for bringing up and the other opportunity that's out there is for Our IT director right yeah yeah potentially um it does seem I I guess maybe my knowledge and experience is limited to East Long Meadow but the IT director and the MLP manager aligns a lot and that makes a lot of sense to me um I I think it' be hard to find a planner and a grant writer and uh MLP manager although I guess it depends what the MLP manager will do in at the end of the day um but I think that if if it could work it's a good idea absolutely everything you said as far as like moving forward and having select board Serv as the P it all makes sense to me thank you for summing it up and all the work you put into it benath it's it's uh it sounds like it's the right thing to do and we can always get another manager or put like as things develop but this Le thank you to Mr Brown for being willing to step up on our behalf as well so thank you it's Mark I guess my question is and I know Ben Brown from speaking to him 30 seconds here but I mean is is the is that liaison the kind of position we ought to open up to see who else in town may be qualified more qualified less qualified more interested have more time have whatever it is I you know to to just say we've got somebody on board I think is is fine but you know there ought to be an open process I would think I I mean I'm open to talking about it this this you know I I think obviously Ben has been with the task force since the beginning he's very very familiar with the project knows what's going on with it and this is really just a position to just attend meetings every two weeks and just report back uh to the town I think it makes sense if the task force is going to be the advisory committee that the liaison is somebody on that committee frankly so I think it I'm comfortable with it I think it makes sense yeah Josh I I'm comfortable with it but I am as someone who attends meetings every two weeks it's it is a big time commitment to Mark's point and uh he's if he's already running the network for UMass it might be a big Hall but if he's willing to do it I think that that there's good thinking with the continuity and Fiers spring already has a good relationship with them so yeah yeah and it just seems like something that you know maybe we do not need to over complicate here you know um and and delay anything but what about is does everybody feel comfortable with the select board moving forward with the select board to serve as the municipal lifetime board and kind of starting with that process with the article at town meeting I think the timing is there is no other choice we kind of concluded that didn't yeah yeah I agree okay great so we'll make sure that that gets on to warant all right anything else on this all right great thank you all um next up is our DPW um site 21e eminent domain cas settlement so there was a press release that came out um in November about the settlement that uh attached the agenda is the settlement agreement as well as receipt of the uh confirmation of the funds um Lynn was there anything else that you want to add about this um I'd need some guidance uh from the board on where you would like to direct those funds right now they're just sitting in a special account but accounting will need some direction otherwise they just flow to the general fund uh which is fine we could leave it that way I think I had expressed um um a suggestion that we direct those funds to the demolition of the old facility we're we're short of money to accomplish that uh and this will help get us closer to that amount that we need Mark yeah I I have no particular objection to directing the funds but but based on our past history of getting special Revenue particularly the GM you know I thought I I want to make sure that the State Department of Revenue doesn't already have a comment for us of where those funds should go and I think in the past their comment has always been it's General Revenue and and you know as opposed to creating a a separate account I wouldn't want to do something uh counter to what the Department of Revenue would direct us to do and I know past C CEO or CFO Paul PK and I had many dis disagreements about it he kept saying Yeah but the Department of Revenue says here's where the money goes and that's where the money ended up so I think we need to see if a a legal settlement can be ear Mark per se or if it just has to go into the general fund and then be voted out of that general fund for its intended use personally I don't have any o opposition to using it I just don't want to do something that we're going to not be able to do I'm happy to double check yeah checking okay if so I'm good with using it for demolition I think that's part of the project can can you remind us how short we were on the demolition um is it six yes we also were very hopeful that by the time we were able to put it out to bid we'd have a favorable bid result so if you remember um it's going through a really lengthy permitting process the state put an additional requirement uh on um our permitting process that it's almost complete it's almost through we should have a um an order of conditions I Believe by the end of the month and that's just one more step getting us closer to actually being able to put it out to bid for demo so the timing on the bidding is we're hopeful we'll get a better bid result and be really close I'm not necessarily opposed to using it for that but just just a question about our legal fees and like how we our U where that stands in the budget I know that every year we're often kind of increasing it where do we stand right now if we wanted to kind of at least connect some of these funds to the reason why we you know the whole issue with the uh with the lawsuit so where do we stand with that yeah I don't have the exact total right now um but with that last infusion of money at the fall town meeting um if you remember they had estimated I think it was 150,000 to get us through trial I put in 225 it's great that we did do a higher number because their bills are coming in a lot higher than they had estimated to us so we should have enough to cover it but um if we have anything else come up it will dip into our standard legal budget and then we might have some short yeah I would just hate to I mean I'm not necessarily opposed for the DPW demolition but also it would feel a little bit disingenuous to have asked a town for 100 thousands more legal fees when we had this essentially at one point but yeah and um we have some time I can um look into some of this for you and bring it back in February and then we can have some further discussion thank you yeah I was going to ask about the timing of this um yeah I mean I putting it towards demolition makes sense but I think I would I would want to maybe think through more options about you know what else we you know what else could use this money or what else we could put it towards because it is a good significant amount of money D's got to happen though yeah so sorry I think I missed that um you asked how much how short we were at 600,000 we short roughly excuse me roughly um there was there's 700,000 earmarked in the building project itself that was supposed to cover demolition the um estimates we received were about 1.2 million so we're going to be short um but that included um the full sight cleanup as well not just taking down the structures um taking down the fencing it was you know making the site look much nicer than just removing the building okay and just and and so after the demolition um are there going to be a like I I went to a forum probably two months ago the adult center around the demolition will there be additional you know public forums about what we're going to use with this space and and yeah so the the demolition plan is just that the demolition plan there is no plan at this time for reuse of that parcel if and when there's conversation there will include a public component of that Mark I guess to piggy back on Dan's comments often a developer who would come in might be compelled or convinced that it's in their best interest to do the last X percentage of of the of the site what I'll call cleanup or you know finalizations in order to make it prepared for for development and so it may make sense to not bring it down to a what I would call like a green field type site you know level and leave it somewhere if we have not yet decided what what the town's going to do with it because I think if if you had a developer and let's say we want to turn it into a a solar field for example they might have particular requirements for prep preparation that would they be doing it anyway so why are we going to do it and then have them come back and do it again and and I have no clue what we're going to use it for I'm just trying to save the town some money by not bringing it down to where you know could plant grass seed on it just to have somebody come up and say the first thing we're going to do is tear up the grass seed kind of thing yeah um I know this isn't the the topic on the agenda so we could talk about it at a separate at um a separate agenda topic uh but the um any plans for reuse there are are years away we we have not even started that discussion um we do have a site that needs to be dealt with and there is a partial site um assignment by D there so we have some state regulations that we have to take into account uh and then there's partial garage space that is going to be maintained where we store grounds equipment so that would also need to be accounted for um I would say we are at least three years off from even looking at um what a reuse there could be we just have too many other projects going and um we just don't have capacity to talk about a reuse of that site in any for sort of um firm plans okay all right anything else all right so we'll come back next meeting and continue this discussion okay great thank you um next up on our agenda is the discussion on retirement contribution options so the Hampton County Regional Retirement Board and you our our part of it uh has been topic of discussion for a long long time the costs you know are increasing and we've you know this has been something that we've been trying to solve so at our last meeting at last time we talked about this you know I had asked um that you know we try to look into some solutions and try to see you know what what could be done to possibly extricate ourselves or you know find a different way to to handle this so um Lynn and Ian have been looking into this and now they prepared a memo and um Lynn do you want to talk further about this thank you yeah um and so at uh last I don't think it was our last meeting but it was a recent select board meeting um there was desire to continue this conversation and so I did reach back out to Town Council and they spent considerable time reviewing this as you see in the memo here um there is no mechanism in Mass General Law chapter 32 that enables us to leave this Regional retirement system this was the same information we had previous viously we would need a special act to in order um to allow us to remove that has not been there is no example of this being done from a community that's in a regional uh retirement system there are examples of it when a community is a single system that joins a regional but not the other way around so um there is some hesitation that um this would actually happen uh that the legisl would vote for this it's not impossible we could pursue it if we wanted to um there is another there was a follow-up question to that and and that's whether the town could pick a date say July 1st 2025 all new hires at that point and and in the future would go into a different system as opposed to the current system we're in uh and Town Council did reply that that is not possible um we would be prohibited from picking a date in the future and having all new hires enter a different system we would still need to use that other mechanism a special act to remove ourselves from the regional and go into um another retirement system the last piece of this is if we are successful in removing ourselves we then need to decide are we going to do this ourselves are we joining another system um and what would the cost be related to that I did not put that here in the memo but Ian did do considerable research on um what that looks like just to know whether there are better Financial options out there um another Regional that would potentially be a possibility for us is the Hamshire County Regional retirement system um it does seem to be performing similarly although better um but not not a number that really swayed Ian and I to come out with a strong opinion um and there will be Al considerable cost to extracting ourselves and we don't know exactly what those would be so I think there's still a lot of uncertainty and it's it's not clear enough to me that we would save enough money in the short term um that this would be worth it but um if the board did want to pursue special legislation now would be the time we could prepare something with Town council's guidance and put it on the warrant for the annual town meeting great yeah thank you um you Andy and for all of your work on this um is there um is there any reason why we couldn't look at other Regional Retirement Systems Beyond Hampshire um no we could uh it was just for the sake of time um we didn't do a deep dive into all the Regionals in the state um we just chose the next closest one and had conversations there um Ian is available virtually if you had specific com questions on um his conversations with the Hampshire County system okay could we find out which one's performing the best yeah that's a public record I've got that yeah yeah and then you know then that and compar you're all in the eastern part of the state yeah so um some of the interesting things if you would yeah thanks um some of the interesting things is um Hampshire County invests with Prim as well so it's it's the same investment um it really comes down to administrative overhead and also the pool that is part of the regional district so um you know Ian and I looked at the numbers uh and Ian sorry to put you on the spot here but um he shared some really interesting things um on paper Hampshire County and Hampton County look very similar but the number of um actual members is greatly uh different in haming we have a much higher number in hamton County than Hampshire County which contributes to overall administration of the the program um Ian is there anything you want to add to that what I was just saying about the numbers of both U uh sure uh it might be helpful if uh Mike if you could pull up the Google sheet that I shared I can at least expand on the specific data that I'm looking at I think the biggest two things I'll start discussing while Mike pulls that up is one of the questions that were that was asked was about costs specifically administrative costs ly and I both looked at Hampshire County versus hon County in terms of administrative costs and what I did is I looked from 2014 to 2022 which is the period of financial statements that were available uh they haven't released their 23 and 24 financial statements yet and neither has Hampton County so I didn't have that information readily available so if we look at uh Hampton County versus Hampshire County on that time period uh it's very similar in terms of uh a dollar change in the administrative expenses it fluctuates from year to year with um some of the years being $113,000 difference with some years being $80,000 difference now if we look at the difference in administrative costs between plant it's about 50/50 some years are worse where Hampshire has better costs some years are better so to me if it's a 50/50 split in that time frame it's not distinguishable enough to say one is better versus the other now I also looked at return data because we want to know that we're getting the best value for our money uh we actually performed better in the hamon county system compared to the Hampshire County system Ian if I could interrupt you one second the spreadsheet you shared with me there we go thank you can you just tell us where you are on this chart yep so if you want to scroll down uh I'm on the first tab the appropriation comparison data so what I did is I took the uh data from fy15 to FY 23 and there is more data in here they have estimates going forward but specifically the data range that both hamen and Hampshire cting had available is 2022 2014 if you scroll down to uh row 43 Mike this is where you can see the annual money weighted rate of return net of investment expense so comparatively you might see in 2022 we had a pretty poor year where um handing County had a 11% loss comparatively Hampshire County had a 10.78% loss and going back you can see it's you know a percent to a half a percent difference on a year-to-year basis and that adds up over time but I think the biggest takeaway is if you scroll over to the right if you go to column column M you see that we have actually performed better we be Andy kind Retirement Board has performed better as a percent for the past uh 9 years so I think that that to me is that is distinguishable when we're talking about where our money is going what our money is being how our money is being invested and how well we're doing now I think Lyn brought up the point about we both invest with Prim and I think that that is why our investment returns are so similar but to Lynn's Point um hamton county has more members so you're going to see a bit of a variance in investment returns with more contributions Hampshire County has a lot of smaller members so their contributions are smaller and that's going to affect the overall investment um I think that from this data if you want to go to the next tab like the changes in npl this really told the story for Lyn and I in terms of comparing Hampshire to Hampton so the biggest thing that you're going to see is different is the net pension liability that is our overall obligation that we owe from all of the benefits that need to be paid out to current and future employees or future beneficiaries from Hampton County as of uh 2020 2022 we had a net pension liability of $439 that $439 million with a percent funded of about 52% as you can see in the time period we started in 2014 at 51% funded and in 2022 uh the period later we're at 52% funded it has gone up and down over that time period but we still remain um on the lower end of the funding metric now if you look at Hampshire County it's a much different story in terms of um net pension liability we started at 186 million and in 2022 we're at 200 million with a vastly different percent funded I think to me if you're talking about a $239 million difference in that pension liability you can see where the larger communities of hon County make up a vastly different base than Hampshire County does Hampshire County includes towns like Goan um it includes towns like Worthington and um South havy East Hampton's veterans District planville Huntington these are small communities that if they got a 10% increase in their retirement assessment it would be detrimental to them as a whole so this is where I think we're going to see differences among the two different plans great thank you again um any questions comments or Mark yeah I was I've been kind of somebody pushing this I don't know if the person pushing this and I'm I'm I'm I guess I'm prepared to yell uncle and say that it's not so easy to switch I I'm extraordinarily disappointed though that we're we're in a a pension plan that that is mismanaged and poorly performing and can't do anything about it and the state basically said you're stuck and and I I think that if the state people understood the situation you know we might have a different answer Ian I appreciate your analysis but for me the the the two factors are what is the ratio of your of of your pension fund costs to relative to the overall Revenue in other words if if they're all invested in Prim and Prim is earning 10% what's the what's the pension fund returning to the town and I think the numbers are that Hampton County is doing poorly relative to Hampshire County the second thing is what's the increase in the annual assessments and for us and me at least that's the critical Factor we are being asked to increase our fun our funding of our Pension Plan 8% additionally every year with no end in sght based on Hampton County's comments Hampshire County has a much higher percent funding overall and their their assessments of the towns and I I understand exactly what you said Ian but their assessments of the towns are not going up at 8% per year they're going up much lower than that and so from a town of long meow who needs to you know I I mean we're putting what million ion million two or something into the our Pension Plan every year you know that 8% is big big money and if it was only 7% That's a significant difference and if it's the six or 6 and a half% that Hampshire County appears to be doing that's even bigger money so the issue for me is you know when Hampshire County says that they're 58 or 60% funded and Hampton County last report was 45% funded just for reference the only one less than Hampshire County Hampton County City of Springfield is 28.9% funded but be that as it may if you know with that low level of funding the town of long mow is going to be facing maximum allowable by law increases for the foreseeable future and again I Lynn I appreciate you and Lynn and our attorneys looking at this and saying stuck and if we're stuck at an 8% per year increase which it looks like we are we better do something very different because that doesn't look like it's going to change for the next 10 years not where hon County Retirement Board is with relative to their funding their need to be at be at a funded level in 2035 and they're now at below 50% funding so the issue for me is if the state tells us you're stuck and we're stuck in a terrible system then I think we have an argument to go back to the state and say help we need to get out either need to get out of the system or we need to reform the system and we've we've asked them to reform the system and politically it just hasn't worked I mean Lynn's worked on it and me and special legislation to reform the hen County Retirement Board who continues to have a an excessive in my opinion an excessive level of internal fees and and costs and that's and that's the difference between the Hampton County Board which I think is problematic and some of these other boards which have issues but at least when prim's making a good deal they're not spending 95% of it on on trips to Cape Cod which is our what our board was doing so that's that's my statement yeah the only Mark I completely agree with everything you're saying and I'm I appreciate you bringing this to the Forefront and and Lynn and all your effort and Ian as well uh completely agree uh the only thing that we're not talking about is the cost of change as well so I mean that I don't know Ian if you have numbers uh we're probably not going to get into all the numbers but there is a cost and a a price involved with with change so we can look at you know system a versus system B but at the end of the day there's a there's a massive undertaking uh with the town employees um financially as well so I I agree with you Mark I think this is something that we need to look at um at the state level and whether or not they want to listen to us I mean we're not we're not going to solve it here clearly but um I just think there's a lot more to the numbers than than just looking at the different systems I appreciate Dan and for just for the record I think it would be a Fool's errand for the town to try to administer its own retirement plan I mean Lynn you said that as much and but that's just a a mess to try to to do that everything from just the smallest kinds of things like keeping up with people who retired 30 years ago's death so you're no longer paying somebody I mean that that's a full-time job for example but but the point is that that that looking at an 8% increase of such a significant cost is something that we'd be remiss if we didn't do our utmost to try do otherwise there's going to be a lot of other changes to the budget in this town because we're paying so much money for what I consider to be a poorly managed Retirement Board yeah Josh given that we are stuck which I think is the right term unless we talk to uh without State action legislative action which we know how much western Mass gets ignored have we had any discussions with uh Senator ala or representative Ash about if there's any snowballs chance to hell of succeeding with any of these actions we we've refiled legislation in this year so for hamon county is it for the Hampton County Retirement looking for reorganization requesting a reorganization of the Hampton County Retirement Board but not to remove ourselves no not to remove ourselves but that's a tough one is that is it in committee or it hasn't even gotten to well it's a new new session but in the past it went went to a committee and never came out of committee in the past sessions okay so let's say that we are able to remove ourselves from the hamon County Retirement System what does it look like to join a different system does it do I mean um do we can we just choose is there some right like so what does that look like they would need to accept us um so there's a couple couple things one we do not know what it will cost to leave hamon County to extract our pension liability out of there and have someone else take us on we don't know what that cost is we don't know who would take us on if no one would then we would start our own I don't think it's impossible I think it's a uphill battle but it's not impossible um to some extent the legislation that we're talking about here um could be symbolic you we've Mark and I have exhaustedly tried to make change to the current structure of hamon County Retirement we've also tried to work within the structure that exists by having Long Meadow people or other communities besides just the host Community um sit on the board and try to get more voices new voices in there and we've we've had no success there so I mean really The Next Step would be special legislation to remove ourselves from it it would it would be a a strong show of we're not you know we're not going to turn away from a challenge we agree we don't agree that this is right we think something should change and if you don't agree with us that we're going to try to do it ourselves I mean that's really what we would be saying um but we would need to be prepared if it did pass that we would be coming up with the solution on our own would the ACT say that we are removing ourselves and going and trying to get picked up somewhere else or what it could it just be we are removing ourselves and we'll figure it out I don't know yet um we haven't gone the next step with the attorney of actually drafting anything I didn't want them to spend time on that until they had direction from you on do we do we want to do that do we want to put forward something on the warrant to um resend our prior vote from like I think it was the 20s or 30s when it was formed um and and do something different and I think we were talking about this that in the research that you and Ian had done you know obviously had not found an example of another Community being able to remove themselves from uh retirement system so you know this could be a good thing or a bad thing the bad thing is obviously that there's no Playbook to follow here uh the good thing is is we could be the first one to you know kind of do this take advantage of this uh before maybe other people get the same idea and and you see more of it um for me I I really think it's if we are able to kind of play out some of this or get a sense of some of these the stuff about whether we could join another retirement system how much that would cost and if it all of that looks like it would be very advantageous for us I think it's worth a shot for us to file legislation even if it is just symbolic ends up being symbolic I think we need to try something because uh right now this is not workable like it's it's it's not sustainable so um I would rather take action than you know kind of just sit here and continue to have the same conversation every year about it Mark just potential I won't say argument but a potential pathway is we've got this this proposed legislation it's on the it's there it's all written out you know to reform the Hampton County Retirement Board you add to that you know we want to go it alone is that a onew punt look look legislature either reform them or let us get out of it but something's got to be done better than just we've got this miscellaneous reform in there or just the we want out I'm just wondering if having two pieces of legislation saying you know maybe the lesser of evils for the legislature is to help us reform the hand because I I think with a reform that and Lynn proposed Muslim would be very very positive for us you know it take a couple of years but it would be very positive again and you know the other thing is I'm and I don't often speak for other people I'm highly s you know likely that other communities like the town of Hampton would join us if we wanted to do that and I can think of others who are also equally disgusted with the H Hampton County Retirement Board so we wouldn't necessarily be going it alone but we'd be Paving the way as as you said but maybe this onew punch of either reform it or let us get out yeah I mean the other legislation is already there there's you know we it's already written there's no re there's no impet for the legislator to act on it right but I mean I think that should be filed no matter what it um so yeah I mean so this can yeah just be adding to that might make that one more attractive um yeah the other thing too there's they're going to be going through new committee appointments too uh you know in the next couple weeks for this session as well so it'll be interesting to see who's who's the chair of municipalities and Regional government and and some of these other leadership posts that that could bode well for us or maybe not um maybe we ask for our our state representative to be on those yeah be in municipalities and Regional government or bills in third reading or something whatever um Can Can we you know is this is a long process but can we do more work on figuring out you know what it would look like to join another retirement system and the costs associated with that and and all that yep yeah we can do to the extent that we're able to we can you know as well as any of us that the that retirement fund when that goes up 8% every year it's just a bigger bigger chunk and we can't raise our taxes that high so yep um it's worth the work I think completely agree it's why I'm not willing to say we're completely stuck um because if we have an opportunity to save $100,000 200 however much it is it's it should be pursued yeah absolutely can you comment a little bit on to by what criteria another group might find us attractive or unattractive um I think it depends on how they accept communities whether they need a vote of their their board I'm imagining they would they would probably run um financials on what that looks like I don't know Ian if Hampshire County gave you any indication on what they would look at if if we were to ask to join them um when I spoke to Patrick he didn't specifically go into that but I can certainly reach back out and inquire we'll also cast The Net wider too and and not just look at Hampshire County it sounds like there's desire to see what else is out there too um or even find one that's um performing really well the problem is if we are just adding numbers we we are then we have the the inverse of the Hampshire County where there's fewer people's service so the costs are less if we just add more then all a sudden or upping the people in need service by right which then there may be more to it than that right and would have a ripple effect on the administrative cost because there's more people in the plan and yeah it all has to be looked at but but just to so everybody's got their eyes open on this thing you know our our retirees are approximately 40 8% funded for their retirement plans my presumption is that if some other community or some other retirement plan accepted us they'd want our retirees to come in at at least the funding level their organization is funded at if not at 100 I mean so it's not going to be cheap and it's not going to be free you know and it's probably going to be at least a a lump sum infusion my goal is to just stop this incessant 8% per year you know killer for our our annual budget you know but switching pension systems is not easy it's not cheap and not something we'd want to do but if it can turn you know it's the old decision of you know do you buy a new car do you keep spending money on on on maintenance you know at some point you just buy a new car and you save all that and that monthly cost of of of maintenance for us maybe putting a lump sum into a new retirement plan you know gets us so we have annual increases more in the 3 to five% rate which just makes sense for the the town is that that lump sum is that something we could bond for Ian yeah there are towns that have bonded their whole retirement plan so the answer is yes I just that yeah that'd be a hard sell it's a very hard sell because you yeah you're looking very long term on that but I mean you're also talking too about our exit fee for handing County and that's probably a sizable amount as well so that would have to be equated in the cost the the part that worries me about joining another Regional based on it be based on present day standings we don't know what the future years look like they have Chang in administration change in board we could end up in another situation like campden County and so the only all that to say the only way we can control that is if it's ours if if we are administering it ourselves so just something to think about uh we'll we'll bring you back some more information might not be the next meeting might be towards the end of February just just the last comment that a similar discussion to this I see Mr chabeli in the was happened many many years ago with medical benefits and at the time a bunch of regional communities got together and formed the scantic Valley Regional Health Plan and you know that has saved us a lot of money I don't know how many millions but over the years so it it can happen it has happened we've done it in the past when we got out of other other plans it wasn't easy but here we are 25 30 so some years later after the scandic valley was formed it's the best thing I mean last year we had a 0% increase in our medical Ben you know fees for for Town employees so it do it can work and not to continue this but I think to your point I think it it it's a how it was set up there's a voice from every Community there that is vastly different than what is happening at the Hampton County Regional Retirement Board and I think if you had a setup like that we wouldn't be having this conversation which is the legislation that we were arguing for um to fix it so it it's it's frustrating yep okay anything else all right like I I I think it I think probably everyone would agree no rush you know on this but let's get some more information and keep talking about this thank you for having this discussion of course all right uh next is okay next is on our agenda is resetting the 2025 annual Town election date so um there's a lot of moving Parts here I'm going to try to explain this I think the best that I can basically we uncovered a special act from 1988 that said that preliminary elections needed to be held 28 days before annual Town elections where we typically set our annual Town elections and our annual Town meetings um the preliminary election would then land on the same day as our annual town meeting so obviously you know we if we were to have a prelim preliminary election this year we would have had a preliminary election and an annual town meeting on the same day so we took a look at options for how to adjust the schedule in um in making sure that that would not happen because obviously that would just be a a huge lift for our town clerk for for our town to have a annual town meeting and and preliminary election on the same day um and obviously and there's also just be a conflict with timing and everything so what we are proposing here is to reset the annual Town election date one week earlier um on June 3rd so it would be the first Tuesday of June this makes sense for a few reasons when you look across the Commonwealth and when annual Town elections typically occur ours is one of the later ones so this would be bringing us kind of more in line with where the rest of the state is uh holding their annual Town elections also the other piece of this is that I I think what we should do and and Lynn and Mike and I talked about this is probably propose a that an article be put on our um warrant at annual toown meeting that resins the special act so we are no longer uh beholden to this where we have to hold a preliminary election exactly 28 days before um our annual Town election um and then you'll also see that there's an election calendar proposed election calendar that's attached the agenda um this was put together um but you know kind of looking at it some of the dates to me seem like they're a little bit close uh so for example the last day of obor withdraw nomination papers is May 1st and the the preliminary election would happen just 5 days later um those are things that we're going to go back and um kind of touch base with town clerk about to see where we can adjust this uh because that's a really short timeline but for the purposes of tonight we just need to reset the annual Town election date uh to be a week earlier um and then the calendar of when nomination papers will go out all those things we will work with the town clerk on and get all that ironed out and and published um but does anybody have any questions about that it's it's really about setting the annual Town election one week earlier and then you know just kind of talking about putting an article on our warrant to resend that act of 1988 uh Josh so we can resend the act of 1988 because there was a town meeting vote to accept the act of 1988 yes right town meeting needs to resend it yeah I meant we as in town okay yeah is that a home rule petition we then have to get it passed to the legislature as well so this isn't going to happen immediately right I I I need to go back and look exactly what was accepted U and how it was but we we actually maybe even need to look into it further because I think it may have been a ballot vote actually not a town meeting vote oh sorry it was a ballot vote because it says at the end of the ACT yeah annual election uh ballot vote so it may be we might have to look into it a little bit the other important piece that Mike found if you want to talk to them about the 20 6 yeah so what happened was um the the the bylaw states that we need to have town meeting no later than the second Tuesday in May but it doesn't State when the annual Town election is it just states that it needs to be held after annual town meeting um in 2006 was the first preliminary we had since the 90s um and what that did was it actually the annual Town election was in March it was then there was a conflict with the state primary so it moved to May and then because a preliminary was needed in 06 the elections now moveed to June so since 2006 historically the annual Town elections have been held in June but they were actually always in late May up until 2006 we talk about the special Town meet or the town meeting to oh and then in 2006 they also tried to resend the legislation and it failed oh on the ballot uh actually so that's a good point that that did go to town meeting so I'm I'm not sure maybe it rescinded I maybe it failed the town meeting because it was supposed to go to ballot vote that I haven't made it far to figure out yet but I don't remember my other question now the dates on the right side the mgls and the a those are those are minimum dates so we can we can push things out or yeah I mean I I also just kind of looked at some of the mjls just real quickly and they don't speak directly necessarily to some of these so there's there's some confusion here we're going to yeah talk to town clerk and try to get the strain down because I I presume most all of them will say at least yeah but I didn't look at them all yet either but yeah I we should push it out to make it comfortable for the clerk but also not let this drag on forever yeah yeah Mark what I don't see included in here is the provision for appealing a voted town meeting that there's a there's a town meeting vote people have a certain number of days to get S signatures to appeal it into a the town election and that is also had to be considered when setting the dis the time interval between the town meeting and all these steps it takes to potentially get a a petition and then print the ballot to put this on the town election and uh you know I I'm note pretending I know what those intervals are I just know that that's a been in the past a strong consideration for the distant the for the time interval between the town meeting and the election in town more more so even than the preliminary elections which could be held well before town meeting well I mean so it has been held before a town meeting but it should not there's been five preliminary elections since 1988 right but they can be held before town meeting correct but but in my research they've always been held 28 days before the annual town election it has worked out that way where it hasn't fell on town meeting date this year it would have my only point is that between town meeting date and the final election there is a provision for the allowance for a citizen petition to appeal a voted town meeting given a certain number of signatures to put it on the ballot and I think we need to make sure that the interval we set between the town meeting and the election meets those that criteria that's all I'm saying so you need X number of days after town meeting in order to get signatures and you have a certain amount of time allowing to get those signatures file it to get the belts right all that stuff Josh that would take a long time whatever I and I don't have the num the intervals off the top of my head but I know that that's been a strong consideration in the past which is one of the reasons we've always set Town election for middle of June because we needed you know the middle of May kind of a town meeting we needed that time for that interval mhm that's all um do we need to set this by we need to set this meeting right because it has to be by febr 1 okay y um and you have to set the date but the calendar is subject to change you don't have to set anything to do with the calendar that that all can be worked out yeah um and then especially when we put out Outreach that here are the dates then we'll have everything ironed out yeah with that okay um that I will say that this has in 2006 it was the same these were the same dates it was May 6th was the preliminary May 13th was town meeting and June 3rd was the annual Town election so unless something has changed between now and then with the amount of time needed this was a similar time frame to that 2016 what's changed is the provision that was approved at town meeting allowing for a petition to appeal a vote at town meeting right that's and that's new Y and when that came in we moved the election one week further down the line so when can if if we're voting on the the um election date when can we expect to see the rest of these dates um lined up on this on this chart so we we know two weeks or is this I'm I'm not sure exactly but I think after we vote tonight then we are going to go back to the town clerk and kind of let him know that this this calendar seems a little too condensed and to kind of take a second look at this and then hopefully we'll get that information out soon yep U I just pulled up our Charter just for informational purposes uh I couldn't remember the date it's five days after the petition or five days to submit a petition signed by three% of Voters after town meeting after town meeting okay and then 10 day and then upon the petitions being certified the select board shall within 10 days after filing call special election that shall be held within 35 days after issuing the call so it wouldn't even go to annual Town election it would go to a special election yeah well I guess but the intent was to get it if if oh yeah if however a regular special Town election is to be held within 60 days following the date the petition is filed the select board may put the question or questions to voters at the same election so if it did happen we want to put it on there um so it's five days so guess it's not as long you just want to make sure you get it in time for everything to be printed right okay so I mean I I just don't know logistically if that's um I would suggest setting the date for June 3rd and then if something comes up between now in February 1st that we find out that that can't happen we might have to call a special meeting to reset the election date but as of right now wait a we already have a date correct yeah so so we don't have to do anything we have a datee 10th right well right now voted so so we met the requirement to set a date prior to February 1st right right yes so I think the answer is let's make sure we're doing it right and if we need to we can do it one more time and adjust it which you said we would need to do anyway but we don't need to you know I I I'd be very reluctant to change it now and then change it again you know because we we don't have all the data so we don't have to act again tonight we've acted if we need to adjust it we can adjust it February 5th 10th 12th but but right now where it is set at June 10th is not workable because 28 days before is the day of annual time meeting so it can't be on the date that we've set right now so either it's going to be June 3rd or it's going to be a week after on June 17th and nomination papers won't be released until you have a date set because everything back everything goes off of that date yep yep so right now we're at a date that doesn't work so I think I think we should vote on June to make it June 3 because right now it seems like that's you know what makes the most sense but if we need to move it to June 17th and we can come back and have a special meeting to do that make sense I'll move we set the annual Town election for June 3rd 2025 second any further discussion all right all those in favor all those opposed okay moving on to new business we've got a public shade tree hearing decision appeal so uh this is not an actual hearing we don't need to follow the rules of a hearing uh are you Mr dun I assume okay um so we don't need to follow the actual rules of a hearing um we will discuss this appeal uh I believe we've also got uh the tree Warden um online and so just to kind of quickly summarize um what's Happening Here the documents are attached an executive summary by the tree Warden as well as supporting documents provided by Mr Dunn um who is at 81 Woolworth Street and the tree is the tree you know at the towards the front of his property and I think to quickly summarize this there is a 34 in eastern white pine um that Mr Dunn had asked to be taken down for uh a new numerous reasons um you know I think the tree Warden probably put it best uh when she said it seems like this is a uh you know the wrong tree planted in the wrong place uh because the way that the tree grows with um you know um trees of this type usually grow in bunches uh this one is uh planted by itself so does not do as well in you know reacting to wind and other um elements of the weather um it also does not react well to salt um and other you know treatments um that they're usually uh carried out um it also because of the way that the roots grow out it interfer with sidewalks roads um and a similar Tree in a similar position on Benedict Terrace uh was removed a year ago or so um and also I think another concern that uh Mr Dunn had outlined um was a safety concern that Woolworth Street has a lot of foot traffic because of its close proximity to the Middle School um there have been branches that have fallen um and I think just recently a a larger branch that had fallen um and also um Mr dun has and and uh the tree Warden has seconded it um that you know while this tree in the 2022 tree assessment was deemed to be in good condition it has deteriorated some um since that time um it seems like either a some type of car or maybe a snow plow had damaged the tree um and so there are safety concerns as well with this tree um the you know the there was an objection made to taking down this tree by a resident and so that's why we're here talking about it um at the select board um and um Leah I guess I'll I'll start off with you um and you know if you there's anything that you want to add to to what I summarized um please feel free to do so thanks Ben I think you did a pretty good job of kind of going over the the main points here it's a very discretionary tree as I know at the beginning of the um of the beginning of the executive summary um it's not in the greatest condition in the sense of being where it is and and the species profile however it's been there a long time it's is it likely to fail the next year or so probably not um you know I did consider since i' gotten my tree risk assessment qualification I did consider what Davey had done in 2022 along with what I had learned from getting the qualification and you know like like I said in the end there that it it probably is a moderate risk tree uh it's likely if there were a failure it would be not a whole tree failure maybe a bit higher up in the crown where that Kink is and from previous uh Bud damage so um you know it's very it's it's one of those trees where it's not you know my heart isn't in it however uh on my own accord no I would not take this tree down um but since there was the request from the resident to have a hearing it had been put on the radar so that's kind of where I've been at with this one great thank you and uh Mr Don thank you for joining us and want to give you the opportunity to add anything or you know yes thank you for your time um I contacted Leah um my primary concern was the safy on this tree it's the only one of this type in the entire tree belt along Woolworth Street very tall um I've lived there for 24 years and I've called the town numerous amount of times to have branches uh picked up but to give you an idea on how how much it's done I've asked the DP W to provide me a list of um the amount of work orders that they can go as far back so they had records going back to 2017 and this is going up through the end of uh 20 uh 24 this tree um had eight calls during that time and six of them happened to be in um between 22 to 24 um the one that really struck me was back back in in June of um 2017 that was um a a bright sunny day there was no wind the largest tree limb fell just after the kids passed to school it was the last day of school and it required the town to come and get you know bucket loader to come up and they you know they had a work crew of I think four or five people to to cut that down um this tree is very prone to losing its Limbs and it does create a safety hazard for me or for me my family um and also property risk because you know when there is high winds we do get a large amount of debris you know the big branches don't go as far to my house but you know the smaller ones do and it gets on the roof and gutters and things so it is a problematic um I had contacted Leah after the the whole process really didn't address my concern from putting the ad in the reminder uh my concern was about safety so after this denial I I wrote back to to Leah and asked her um to address really the safety concern on this and she you know the comment came back that you know it's been there for many years and likely rounding the corner from mature to overmature and it survived the elements as a single tree um and I won't read the whole thing there but it's it's outgrowing its it's its area there but particularly you know like um I would say and this is Leah I would say the likelihood of failure over the next two years to be low to moderate and that this is the part that's addressing my safety concern I'm I'm assuming um and the consequences of failure to be high to extreme so I'm just asking you you know like if you have a tree that is considered one of the top five trees in Massachusetts to lose limbs uh that's also in the SE the packet that you received if you have roughly 150 or plus or minus kids going to and from school passing by my front door every day um there is a risk there you know from a you know wind and the branches falling down so I'm asking you to consider that and to let Leah go ahead and and have this tree taking down great thank you um anything from the board any comments Dan um first I just want to say thank you like I was looking all your back and forth and it was very uh professional and um like courteous to Leah as well so I I appreciate that um I took a I did take a drive uh know the area well used to walk it when I went to Williams Middle School uh back in the day um what maybe this isn't really a question for you but really for the town so if this tree were to be removed and by the way there's it's very um Barren on that it's like the tree is massive there's one big tree and then there's no other trees right so I personally would like to see more trees uh along the road um but is the town responsible for paying for this removal or are we in a situation where it's the the resident similar to what we dealt with on uh Shaker Road so I think that's up to us I think it could go either way I think Bas our decision is that correct um I don't I was the impression this would be the town that was paying for this or at least that was mentioned in the back and forth in the emails if early on you know when when we were going through the process Leah did write down that if if there was no objection the town would take it down at at the town's expense speaking with Lyn earlier uh I think that's certainly a possibility I think the first decision that our board has to make is are we allowing the tree to be taken down or not and then are we asking that homeowner or offering the home owner to take it down at his expense or is a town willing to pay for it um is that correct Lynn um I believe so I would defer to Leah um uh to answer that specifically I would caution though against the town paying for something that we're not proposing um to remove if if Le's um she seemed kind of in the middle on this one but I I'm not sure if her answer changes if it's being paid for by the town I can add so I did have a conversation with Sean banden the DPW director and his comments are reflecting Lynn what you're saying um that it's you know not wasn't a proposed by the town in there for um you know being in good condition it likely shouldn't be covered by the town I also do want to add that I got the notice from the DPW uh invoicing staff that my tree cutting budget for fy2 we're in FY 25 right um that I'm done to about 30,000 for the remainder of this fiscal year so I've basically ceased all removals and frings other than high priority high risk removals um up and and that'll be the case up until July 1 I I also looked at I also drove down the street just to look at the tree and I do see it's a very large tree it also looked you know uh it looked relatively healthy to my uneducated eyes I'm hearing from that you know it's in good condition quote unquote um and as a tree lover obviously I think our we all have a pension as I know this board has stated in the past to kind of preserve as healthy trees as much as possible in town um I think that you know I think that in this situation I think we just we have to we're trying to balance the homeowner's preference uh with the true risk of tree failure against the Lost of a venerable and healthy tree and the cost of cutting it down and I think we should take into account the chance that you know decisions like this do influence others in town um could we be encouraging others to more request to cut down healthy public trees because a nearest homeowner requested essentially and I think that if we were to choose to allow to have it taken down I I just don't think I don't see our budget allowing us to really I don't think it's a good principle that we we pay for this because I think that you know our budget is is very stretched and essentially I'm concerned that more requests are going to come and we're going to be have a very difficult time justifying that you know we can't do it in those cases if we approved it here Josh yeah um I know war with Street well this is not there's some beautiful trees on the street this is not one of them um in my opinion and also as someone who uh last year had a massive tree branch from high up fall in my yard during the Micro Burst I am certainly sympathetic and uh don't want that to happen anybody who happen to be walking by um so I I am okay with it coming down and would like some more trees to replace it as Dan said and you know that I have couple new trees in my front yard that are it's going to be a while but uh they will eventually add to our tree canopy um but I I think that if if we don't have a policy in place I think the policy does have to be we don't pay for it um unless we unless our tree Warden tells us because we we couldn't do it we would it would we would hit a wall um and I know it's expensive but uh we every week we got a new reason why our budget is getting kicked um and so I think that that is something we should go doing going forward we were talking about a little before the meeting that we have tree warding now that we have tree Warden we're getting a lot more there's a lot more knowledge and there's a process coming through on how to uh handle trees and if we we're going to hear a lot of these I think and in my time on the board I think the first tree hearing we had in years and years was when I was on the board now we've had po um so I think we do need to draw a clear line but um that being said I am fine with the coming down and I would like trees to replace it Mark yeah I think we've we've hit a a very unusual situation here because having been warned or told or surmised that there's a risk the town only has two options do nothing and if nothing happens nothing happens but if we do nothing and something should possibly happen going be a lot of people saying Mr Dunn told you there was going to be a risk to this thing and you know so you know it it's it's like once you're warned can you now say no and and I don't know I don't have the answer to that because everybody in Town's going to write us a letter saying that tree in front of my house is a danger now whether it is or not and so at some point we have to fall back on our tree warden so the issue for me is we have an expert who said the tree is not an emminent danger and if Leah believes that then that's where we where we have to I think be be you know be maintaining that on the other hand if we say you know Mr Don if you don't like the tree or you don't want the tree and you want to trim the tree or cut the tree or take down the branches you think are worse and we want to give them permission to do that I'm fine with doing that as well yeah I think just to address what you said Mark I I agree with you but that's why we have a trained arbology or I'm not sure if I'm using the right term arur arur um yes I'll give it to you though was close uh I I think I was thinking in a a Harry Potter class orology um but no we need that's why we have a a train arborist and uh so we have to defer to her I I would be very hesitant to ever say she says the tree has to come down and we say no um and I think the other way around as well Mr chairman may I speak uh yes could you introduce yourself first William Shelli I live at 73 wart street I'm Mr dun's neighbor okay so I have a little bit I think a lot of personal knowledge about this particular tree and I I believe Mr Dunn provided a package with which included the dpws times that they were at that that street this is this happens every year branches fall from this tree it's not something in fact most years it happens more than once a white pine on a tree belt I don't think would was ever meant to be planted I think it was probably left there when they built the street but I don't think anybody would ever put a white pine on a tree belt especially one in which 100 150 students a day walk by twice to day so I did take a picture of the tree and I think Mr dun gave a picture of the picture of the trees as well but this was bu I'm sorry I'll wait I took this particular picture this morning and it shows over the sidewalk there's a 40ft branch that is currently sitting over that sidewalk right now along with hundreds probably of smaller branches but some of these branches that fall off this tree in the winter time because it has pine needles that stay on all year long they hold snow whenever it snows so when when it actually snows 6 in 7 Ines all those branches are leaning down and I think White Pines are probably one of the softest wood trees that that exist they break all the time and they break over that sidewalk where the children are walking walket so I I don't think the tree is going to die tomorrow but I think the tree is dangerous where it's located in this particular area being that it's on a school route and kids are walking by every day thank you for comments yeah thank you um so I I agree here with Josh I think I I am you I'm somebody that cares deeply about our environment I care deeply about the TR in our town I think looking at all the facts here though we are looking at a tree I think that has enough red flags um in terms of safety in terms of the type of tree and where it is planted um and also we do I think need to take seriously uh the interests and the concerns of our residents here as well so um I I agree with Josh that I you know Al although this is not something that I like doing um this is I think in the situation something that I would be okay with um saying that the tree can come down um but I guess um Mr Dunn I wanted to ask you about you know I think you're hearing from the board that you know there's not an appetite here for the town to pay for the removal of the tree um is that something that you would do it wasn't something I was thinking about quite honestly I was um encouraged actually by the early correspondence that I had back and forth with Leah that um you know if there wasn't any objections then it was going to move ahead as coming down so I would have to kind of evaluate that yeah I think when I when you when this first came up and I commented I saw the email correspondents right I think it was about oh you paid $250 for the advertisement and then I'll move forward so I I completely understand you know how uh why why you would think that Mark what was the impetus behind the original tree hearing to to potentially remove this was that your it was based on my request so you so I mean you know my original email so you requested it she outlined the process which is putting the advertisement for two weeks in the reminder and then there's the treat Committee hearing and that's you know um if if anybody came up and objected in the town which one person did then the the only way to go forward is here right through the select board it might have been Mis a disconnect there because if you if you're just requesting to take it down that's not a request from the town to take it down if I'm correct right right but he still has to follow the process laid out I know but if that if there hadn't been an objection at that point that doesn't mean it would have come down that would have given you the permission to take it down so I think there was a Mis that's not quite what was written but no I understand that so maybe um and I I I'm certainly like I said I'm sympathetic to the safety issues here but we don't we're talking vagaries too we don't know what this is going to cost and maybe that could be helpful to us not that uh we're saying I I could see a scenario where we could have some sharing I don't know if the rest of the board thinks that but I I wouldn't I can't propose that now without knowing without having an estimate from from either side if I could jump in I don't know that um I don't know what the exact cost would be but I can guarantee that at a minimum a crane would be needed likely also a log truck so I would assume this would be a couple thousand removal and a police datail Road will need to be partially closed and and Leah um I I know that in the executive summary you mentioned that a similar tree was taken down on Benedict Terrace um was that also done at the homeowner's cost that was not that one was done at the well it hasn't been removed yet it was approved for removal that one is in a bit of a smaller tree belt uh kind of in that Corridor where the Micro Burst went through and pulled up another uh similar Lea sized oak tree so um based on the location and and kind of similar weight out um you know if that tree goes it's it's guaranteed to hit a house in any direction so that one was approved for removal for that but it hasn't been removed yet um and I think the Kink on the top of that one might have been a little bit worse than the one on um the one on Woolworth but I'm not positive okay H Dan and Andrew uh so we we just repaved Woolworth as well um I don't know a month ago maybe two months ago something like that and then I noticed when I drove by the sidewalk was also replaced right by the tree uh so my question to you Leah is do you foresee a additional uh growth of the the roots that would affect the uh newly paved Road as well as the sidewalk that was just replaced should the tree I don't know that the roots would necessarily grow in that sense because where they were cut they'll likely shoot out a lot of smaller weaker style Roots so you'll see it around town where a tree was previously pruned and there's the old pruning cut that you can see and there's a 100 little Sprout sticking out of it I would imagine that any fruit that was cut during either of those caving projects uh would be doing the same it's a epicormic uh Ro root growth basically so I wouldn't imagine anything that's shooting out would be anything strong enough to buckle a pavement of any kind okay thank you and just the last point I wanted to make so I certainly I think we all agree we don't want to be taking trees down um but in this situation I like I drove down this road and it's completely bare I feel like if this tree were to be removed number one who's who's going to pay for it is it going to be a combination of the resident and the town um the other component is the types of trees that that should be placed there and um planted there and we really should be putting more trees on that section of the street and I just want I'm curious what how you feel Mr Dunn about if this tree were to be removed would you be I guess it doesn't really matter what what your opinion is but I'm just curious would you want to see more trees on that it was just this tree that's that's um causing the problems my concerns so the only other thing I mean if it if it if this doesn't come down I guess is the the things based on what was said um in the correspondence that I received that it that discretionary pruning could take place and I guess Leah would I I'd be asking you would you be doing that now um doing the discretionary pruning because at one point it kind of suggested that it may not be worth it because of the condition of the tree I think that it could be valuable to do uh if we if the tree is not approved for removal I would be happy to put it on the pring list I personally wouldn't be doing it it would still be Northern Tree Service or tree contractor um I will pref that it's because of the type of tree it is pruning we can get out some of those weaker Limbs and those dying limbs uh however there will still continue to be limb shed to a certain extent so it won't be bulletproof and it won't make it this perfectly um stable tree but it it'll reduce the amount that's that's coming down for sure I think the picture attorney shell showed us is a little that I think it startled a little bit with the the limb hanging out over the and then going straight up over the sidewalk is that I presume that one can't be trimmed because it's is that integral is that or uh I don't recall the picture is there another is that that's an offshoot of the the main trunk it is like at a 90° [Applause] angle than actually just give that one too I gu just Mr chairman can I just add a little bit personal yes sure information in 2010 I filed an application with the town to remove the exact same tree that was on my front yard and our tree Warden back then was Mike rapel who was the head of the DPW and he approved it but he required me to pay to remove the tree cost me $1,500 in 2010 so I I think it's kind of a significant burden tell a private citizen that probably is going to cost three to $3500 today or more to pay for removing the tree that's on that's the town's tree so I don't know if there's a possibility of sharing in that cost but that's a significant amount of money to ask a private citizen to pay Andrew I am a so I I I came into this hearing with totally an open mind I I the first thing I heard was Leah saying that if it it was up to her the tree wouldn't be removed and frankly the first hurdle that I've kind of tried to think over and as I've heard a lot of the discussion is whether or not the tree should even come down I think that I think that or give permission for that I think that that's possible I think that I'm more open to that but I do think that thinking for ahead and the future years I I do think that it makes a lot of sense for the town to pay for trees that the tree Ward and recommends proposes we do for safety for whatever reason but to set a precedent and it may not there may have been no policy in the past but and it may have been done different ways but to say that we will pay for trees that the tree Ward hasn't um doesn't compel us to take down or doesn't think even would be taken down if it was up to her I think that could put us into a tougher position we may find ourselves with more of these very difficult conversations and to make it more clear to people uh for the future I think it is good to have a policy where the town is not paying for trees that the tree warant did not think needed to come down and that's just my opinion yeah Josh I think that's certainly reasonable I I just think there's other parameters that are involved the the big one to me is that as Leah said it's uh the consequences are extreme and that's because hundreds of kids walk do go under there um and I think that that is uh you know every decision like this has to be in independ um to a certain extent has to be independent I think um if it was somewhere else if if somebody didn't like it there was no sidewalk there uh and we had this on Shaker Road we said go nuts you can remove the tree you're going to pay for it you're going to replace everything I do think this is a different situation yeah Mark yeah I I still go back to the we've been warned kind of thing and and Mr Shelli offered me a a way out of here I I think that we I think the select board ought to allow the tree to come down and and require that in order that for that to happen the homeowner contribute up to $1,500 or $1,500 of the cost of removing the tree that gives the first of all it's it's the wrong tree in the wrong place everybody said it it's not the kind of it's not a shade tree I don't care what anybody says it's a it's a white pine tree you know we've got shade trees everywhere else but but the precedent would be that you know if the homeowner really wants to come down and the and the we perceive it to be a potential a potential risk to Public Safety and I think that's where this is whether we think it's going to last for 6 months or 16 years you know then the the what I would like to do is is author have the select board approve the removal of this tree uh with the provision that the the homeowner contribute $1,500 toward the cost of it if we did that would it be more advisable to do a percentage because who knows what the tree is going to cost might be better for the homeowner or worse for the homeowner I pick $1,500 because Mr said that's what he F 15 years ago so I don't really car and that's why there's not a tree on my front yard because they never made me pay for a new tree although I would have loved for the town to put one the the problem with the percentage is it's a it's an unknown yeah this is this is we could walk out of here with a now if you want to do either or you know maximum $1,500 or X percentage I'm you know I'm just trying to find a solution where the homeowner walks away feeling good about it we feel that we've taken the the actions toward potential or cons perceived or possible public safety issues and gotten rid of a tree that yeah nobody wants to cut down trees but you know if this was a forest of a whole bunch bunch of trees of White Pines I feel very differently than it's clearly the wrong tree in the wrong place and everybody said it yeah and I and I think also I think Dan touched on this we we were able to read the correspondence between the tree Warden and Mr Dunn we we've saw we we were able to see that Mr Dunn you know has gone about this the right way um and I you know Mr dun's not a frequent flyer who's here complaining to us about everything this is the first time you know that I've I've met you um and and and I know that you probably have not wanted to spend your time sending these emails and you probably don't want to be here but this is you know serious enough where you've felt like you needed to take these steps um so um you know and I think that kind of just goes back to my point of also taking into consideration our um residents concerns and and their thoughts on this um you know like I've I've already said I'm I'm fine with voting to take down the tree um whether we want to do, 1500 or percentage um I'll throw I'll throw 50 50% or 1500 the the larger of 50% or $1,500 that's what I'll throw in yeah the only the only other I mentioned this already the only other concern is what about planting more trees along that pathway I mean there's literally like 300 yards maybe 400 yards of just it's empty Dan that that's in our forestry budget and we can ask the the tree Warden and the DPW to do that that's not Mr from Leah that numbers are tight we know we're going to have a tight budget and I just but but whether this tree stays or goes that doesn't impact whether we plant more I mean there's but that can be part of that can be part of the decision that's I'm just putting it out there all you're doing is forcing her to use part of a discretionary forestry Budget on this property or this street when I just recommend driving down that well I I have I I just think empty I think that that we have a a tree Warden to decide what the highest priorities are for tree plantings in town we're talking about a removal of a tree here right I agreed them we need to plant trees I'm just not sure this is I think you're looking at both of us aren't opposed to that side of it but it is the town property so I mean that if you put more trees that's fine doesn't have to be this year type of thing I was just more concerned about the safety do other people get to comment on this or we just sit in Seline uh well I I I think we're probably up the inial cut I might have some sure sure you come up so uh Pat carahan Uh 311 Farmington Road I'm the one who initially opposed the cutting of the tree I did so because I didn't feel that the tree was in that bad a shape I understand what Leia said and by the way I'm not an arborist uh it did obviously have a hit with a vehicle at some point it seems to have recovered nicely and yes it SLO offs off branches all white pines do that all pitch Pines do that all Pines in general do that especially when you put a lot of load on the branches so probably not the best tree for the site but the tree doesn't look that bad to me again I'm not an arborist I do want to caution the board and I think Mr lamb has mentioned this that you have careful when you take into consideration when homeowners want trees removed on public land this is a public shade tree even though Mr Gold doesn't think it's a shade tree actually by law chapter 87 is a shade tree and there's a process to go through with that it is not deemed a hazardous Tree by the tree Warden therefore it does not have to be cut it can be cut but you have to be careful how you do that in other words you could expend Town funds on removing all of these trees that people don't like on tree belts there's other white pines there's white pines on my tree that constantly drop limbs will those be removed too at a cost of $35 to $5,500 per tree what about a red pine that maybe has a little bit of hollow in there are you going to remove that too even though it hasn't been deemed a hazard tree then you're going to expend a lot of money and you don't have that in the budget so I know that for a fact also you're talking about tree planting a common strategy used by different towns is to have the if the homeowner wants the tree removed and it is agreed to be removed then they replace the caliper width of the tree with other trees usually a 3-in caliper this is a 31in a tree that would be 10 additional trees paid for by the homeowner and then replanted by either the tree committee the town or a contractor at some point in the future so just want to throw that stuff out there so you know you you you can open up a Pandora's Box by all of a sudden saying okay we're going to cover costs of these trees we're going to throw 1,500 here 2,000 here we'll do this magic number but when more homeowners approach you you should have a plan in place how you're going to do this what's the percentage cost or is the homeowner going to do the whole thing and if it is a hazard tree obviously the town takes it down quickly and that's why we also need funds in the hazard tree removal budget to remove those hazards when they're identified thank you okay thank you Josh u i I agree with a lot of that um I I think if my time on the board has proved anything is that this board is willing it it does not take these decisions lightly I can't imagine how much talking a lot yeah we today we had last year we had three hearings on Shaker Road we take this very very seriously and don't do this lately so I I think that I'm not terribly worried about setting uh a precedent and making it we're not rubber stamping anything clearly we've talked a long time today um I am not willing to vote on funding partially until I know what the town's responsibility would be so I'm I'm not going to vote on this tonight I want to know exactly how much it'll cost and how much it would cost to replace these trees or put trees on there so I I'm not ready to do that tonight without having a number I also I kind of see this is two different things I think we can I think we could take a vote on whether the you know we say that the tree come down or not and then we can also take a vote on the funding part of it you could do that can I just make one point just because you know regarding the liability that that's been discussed I mean I do think that as a town as a board we've done our due diligence in the sense that we' have our expert tree ward in give an opinion on on the health of the tree and whether it needs come down as a hazard but another point of it is you know it's also possible that if the town were to expend more money out of their her poultry budget that means could be a higher priority priority hazardous tree that she doesn't cut down because she doesn't have the money and that is far more likely potentially to cause a problem liability wise than this treat hypothetically so it's just another you know there's only so much to spend essentially on the priorities and there's always that possibility to throw there an Actuarial decision there's a 1% chance of having something terrible happen or a right 20% chance of something not so bad I mean part of the tree of warden's decision I'm sure is like how much what are my resources and then but I can prioritize based on knowledge of that right so I'm sure if her budget was hundreds and hundreds thousand maybe she would have said this tree is not perfect let's replace it with a perfect tree but we're not in that situation we have to allocate scarce resources anything else any motions you want a motion I'll make a motion sure I'll make a motion that that we authorize that we allow the the removal of this tree that the homeowner uh required to pay 50% of the cost not to exceed $1,500 for that removal any seconds yeah uh I I I think I'm also just kind of uncomfortable throwing a number out there at this point I would I would vote to either um you know I I would take a just a vote on whether the tree removal was allowed or not and that's right I would like some more information about how much this would cost you could table the discussion if you'd like we we've done that in the past for these um so that's totally you're just the board okay yeah I mean I'm okay voting to remove the tree U but I I don't think anything's going to happen if we do that so I we might as well put it all together but uh pleasure of the I'm comfortable making a motion to remove the tree at the owner's expense but we could revisit it if if there was more information I I'm fine with going that direction as well I mean I think I think just at least getting part of it taken care of at least focuses um you know what needs happen next and that's what my thinking was on that I I do want to make a comment on Mr carnahan's remarks because I I do I do agree with much of what what um Mr caran had said and I think we're going to continue to come across this if we don't have something that's like written in stone that that says in this situation it's going to be x amount percent for the homeowner and for the town and I just I don't I feel like it is a slippery so slope like this will come up often it's going to happen again in a few months I'm sure we'll have another meeting and every time it's every situation is a little different but I feel like we need to have a policy that we can adhere to every single time because otherwise it's it's just going to be very difficult to make these decisions as it already is difficult for us to make this decision so I feel like it's it's on it's on the board to come up with a policy that that um maybe isn't perfect but we have something to to guide us through these decisions because it's it's going to be a slippery slope um you know in in the future here so I mean I think that our policy should be to listen to the Judgment of the tree Warden except perhaps in exceptional cases um I mean for example we could direct the tree Warden to in a situation uh hypothetically in a different tree like she judges it has like it's in good condition with some defects quoting from her report um and if we if she wanted to make a judgment about a percentage of like how Hazard it was or make a judgment like that we could consider that but as of right now I think that the policy to be very clear for future select boards and the the for the knowledge of the town's people if the tree Warden thinks it's needs to come down then we'll pay for it but if it's the nearby homeowner one need to come down and the tree Warden thinks it does not need to come down then we could give the permission to do it but I personally don't think the town should be compelled to pay for but I think that's AAR that's my point exactly what I'm saying exactly so I think that that would be a clear policy yeah Josh um but just to what I keep going back to in's report a moderate risk rating with severe consequence that's not that's not good I would venture to say that's bad um but that be being said uh I would like to put a price on it so um I I think I would rather just table it we'll come back and then we can figure out exactly what we're what we're looking at um I think that this is and the other part is um we have a tree Warden who is an expert at at this we also have folks who are in their house looking out seeing what happens with the tree every day and I think that not that I I I'd rather tree hearings and dog hearings at least but a tree hearing um I would want people to see if they see something I want them to to bring it up um especially in a in a place where there is a lot of risk to uh our kids you know my next four years my kids are going to be going down that street um and and a lot of other people so um that's just where I'm at I I but I I I just want to see what I want know what we're working with here yeah and so I'm I would be hate to make it come back but um I'd like the table everything but Josh what information should we be gathering in the interim because just to come back to repeat this entire disc you know we what what additional you know and I'm I'm not being critical I'm just saying when we come back what numbers do we need oh actually how much is it going to cost to remove it and that's is that I mean is that sufficient I I think so you know it could what if it's $30,000 I I I I hear you that that's fine but maybe we also want to know other information I just don't know oh no to me that go ahe so what I wrote down is you'd like to know how much to take the tree down how much to plant additional trees do you know do you want that number and how many trees if if you want that um and uh I also I'm curious if you want data on how many good trees or moderate trees with severe risk are in our pool because the town is completely built out and almost every single tree that falls in this town is going to hit something um so I I think you need some I would think you would want some context there the tree budgets 83% expended um there's $88,000 that was budgeted for 25 for planting not entirely sure how much of that is left for 25 I would imagine most of that's spent because planting happens you know in the beginning of the fiscal year or maybe at the end I don't know if Leah knows off the top of her head but if you want some additional data we could prepare that too but that that's what I was initially thinking for a followup okay if we're going to table that I mean I think that it's an opportunity like as Dan said and as I've been saying to have an actual policy here because this is a kind of a cas case study and this conversation's gone on for a very long time we literally been saying it's been going on in circles almost so I think it would be help us to take this opportunity to think of an actual policy we don't have to discuss it right now but like for the when we bring this up I mean I think that if we came up with the policy it doesn't have to be what I suggested or what Dan suggests but suggested but I think that it would help us in the future to have much more streamlined discussions and criteria all right so let's get um could I have one I have just one question based on what Lynn had just said that you know the trees you know almost any tree that falls it's going to hit something and so I am I that just made me think about what Leah had written that you know it's going to be coming to this is a matur Tre heading to being overmature and if it does fall onto my house who's responsible for that at that point um a lot of factors get looked that in that um given the rating that it's been given by the tree Warden I and it depends on how it's hit too so I I actually can't give you a definitive answer if it's a weather event that's one thing if it's a car that hits it and it because deteriorates to my lawyer here um because I believe that if if I have a na a neighbor and it's in there a tree is in their thing and I have concern that it might fall on my property and if it does they would be held liable is that they have knowledge of the tree being unhealthy Andor being a risk then they have liability as the one blog post on tree law that's not it's not the whole story but that is getting I think I was just going to say Leo would be better to speak to that but we do um we have what a lot of homeowners don't have and that is a health and a health index on our trees so that would be looked at as well so there's a lot of factors it's hard to say mhm for certainty I was wondering if I could just speak on the risk assessment and how that's determined um so for the likelihood the risk overall risk is a matric combining the likelihood of failure as well as the um likely the severity of a consequence uh so when looking at the likelihood of failure that did end up being possible it is possible this could happen between all of the rate changes um um you know the the upper the stuff in the upper crown that I had mentioned so when I was considering the tree failing that didn't necessarily mean an entire tree failure uh just a large enough failure event where the tree would be um you know considered dead whether it be actually dead or not so like a topping to it uh and then for consequence of failure because of the Lo the school being there it's considered the um the consequence of it hitting somebody below uh so with the school being there the sidewalk I'm assuming is pretty occupied frequently um occupancy rate is considered when looking at the severity of a consequence so that's where that became severe if they fell and and hit a person that would be a severe consequence so then you take the severe consequence combined with the possible compl of failure and put it into the maty that Isa has created and that's where the U moderate risk rating comes out so I my assumption is is when Dave had done the inventory back in 20122 this was pre um you know the road getting done I don't know if that was pre the sidewalk project or not um but of course maybe that was limited data that they hadn't had at the time either so just knowing um the the tree as as a whole and being there and having that response growth that it's developed they probably said oh it's it's not likely that a whole tree would fail so that's kind of what that all means great thank you Leah so let's um I think we do need to table this discussion at this point I think let's if we can gather the information that Lynn mentioned um that' be really helpful um I also think that there is value some you know at times when it seems like we're kind of far apart here amongst the board um you know gives just us more time to think about it digest it and um and think through it so um unfortunately I'm sorry that we can't come to a resolution tonight but we'll revisit this um at our next meeting okay so who responsibility you were going to get the quote for the tree removal just to see what figure right is that one of the action steps yes so it's it's easy for us to get a quote I don't want to speak for the board but it I don't think there's anything that would preclude you from getting your own quote because maybe you get a better price than we do um but we have a contract so we would go to our contractor and ask them to look at it okay okay yeah uh so nothing you know for you to do in the interim um you know you can come to our next meeting okay all right well thank you for joining us tonight yeah appreciate appreciate it and thank you Mr caran thank you all right um all right next up the hero act um so there's a memo attached U about the hero act um the hero act although was passed for it to go into effect needs to be adopted on the local level so um Lynn has you know attached or put together a memo about it also um included model articles for town meeting and the hero act um you know is in place to give tax exemptions um relief to Veterans uh through property taxes um and you know there's some some different different ways that it's it's gone about differently here um with uh adjusting for Cola and and which you know I think legislature has deemed uh it to be an important way to to do this um and so this um you know I don't know Lynn if you have anything else to add but I think you know we've probably had a chance to look at the memo and it's it's something that's you know been in the news and and and been talked about and um you know I'm in support of this I think that this is an important thing for us to do I think um you know in when we take a look at our town and increasing costs uh and every opportunity that we can to um you know lighten that that burden on our seniors and um you know we should be taking those opportunities to do so um and so yeah you know I think that what we be talking about tonight is just to put these articles at town meeting it's not something that we can approve it has to be approved at town meeting um any comments questions about this Mark yeah many of the other programs that we put together for tax abatements we put a cap on and I was wondering if there was any consideration of putting a cap on this of whatever the number number is or we going to have this without limit only because that allows us to budget and without a cap there is no budget I think there is a cap because it can only go up to 100% of the existing is that correct if I read That's each person it's a cap you mean a for the whole town yeah I mean I was thinking of a dollar cap I see I'm sorry up to $250,000 what we have for the uh the seniors senior batement right and we do have our experts here to answer questions say I don't think that's in the sense of how do you decide which service connected sa veteran gets it and which one doesn't well you could have a proportional let's say you hit that let's we're spending what 70,000 on it or something right now we're not I so if you put a much higher number it would just could affect 7 something, is only going to be if we approve it at 100% increase now that's not what we're paying right now in the increase is only going to be for the 100% we would be upping it we're still still going to get the re reimbursement for the first half that we're getting now I so right now if your service connected between um 10% and 90% you get $400 a year off your T and we're not talking about large numbers here either considering what these people these folks have done um if you're 100% service connected which it's not an easy thing to get to and it usually means you're pretty uh for lack of better word PR like beat up um in the milit due to the military you get $1,000 off your taxes um we get a percentage back from the state for those and we're still going to get that same percentage back from the state for that piece what we're asking is that each according to the hero act the people from 10 to% to 90% would get $800 and that $400 for that second half we would be 100% liable for and the same we doing with $1,000 Leah can you just go back what do you mean by 10% to can you just explain what you mean that so in in the VA world you can be service connected which is a VA disability and it can range anywhere from 10% so that's the disability that's the disability rate correct so if somebody has a disability rate of 10% to 100% 10% to 90 90% then they would be eligible for this tax abatement now they already get $400 okay um but the state contributes back a portion to the town for you said about 50% of that I think it's 75 it's 75% I believe so so the proposal is for to do what so that's well right so um the second half of what I was saying was what we're asking is what the hero act um you to increase from 400 to 800 for those people who are 10% to 90% but we would be 100% responsible for that second $400 but we would still get back the 75% of the first half and the same thing would happen in accordance if you're 100% service connected we would still get back the 75% of the Thousand but we would pay the full 100% of the second, so I think we understand that the question I have is that how many people in Town based on your population of service veterans would be eligible for that and I'm only going to talk about the additional $400 because the first part we've already committed to well so it's the second $400 that the town would be entirely responsible but that's what I'm saying so if they have the $400 already they're going to get the $800 it's the same with 100% you're not this isn't going to be a new thing so so if somebody comes in to the town and their service connected and once they meet the eligibility requirements for the abatement they're going to get the $2,000 vers in a th000 I understand that my question is how many people currently live in town who who are eligible for this this current $400 that the state reimburses would then be eligible for $800 66 6 yeah thank you it's in the memo it's at the bottom of the um I apologize I didn't realize we were looking for the numbers but yeah it's I think 66 and we went to 32 right now we have at 400 I think the numbers 32 that maybe we're at right now for the 400 but total um I think it's a 66 right now a total and the three that are in there that we're not putting into the equation those are our gold star families and they're already get they pay no taxes in Long Meadow and so be you can't be more than 100% paid so they don't affect the equation great thank and for the folks watching at home this our veteran services officer VOR um D question I was just saying Mark's over here crunch ing numbers I mean these are it's called the hero act this is this is for our veterans I mean what our veterans have given to all of us and the community and we still have uh gentlemen um three gentlemen here who still serve our community I'm not going to sit here crunching dollars and cents over you know1 $20 I mean this is a no-brainer to me I mean if someone wants to step up on Town floor at a town meeting and say our veterans deserve x amount less of reimbursement I mean go for it but I'm not going to sit here tonight and start crunching numbers saying that we're not going to give you our heroes what you deserve and I just feel uncomfortable even crunching these numbers because of what you have all done to all of us and the sacrifices you made so thank you yeah I agree with that I mean I think that this is a situation I think you made the point because you were trying to explain like a cap wouldn't like be off the 70 or whatever it is now but I I I don't think there really needs to be any cap on on however many veterans come and take advantage and Avail themselves with this in our town agre anything else okay so no vote needed or anything right this is just uh for or um I think we're looking for um support that you are willing to put these on the town meeting warrant because if you are not the deadline for citizen petitions is approaching the next week and um there is desire from um residents to um prepare a petition if this is not going to be on the uh town meeting warrant okay um so I move uh to support the two model articles um provided in the attached memo to the agenda um to be placed on our 2025 annual town meeting warrant second second okay any further discussion oh you want to say something Earl Godfrey yes Pleasington Road um if you're going to put these on the town warrant uh we the veterans uh that are represented here and myself for the others that I represent would like to know that the warrant article for the increase would be listed specifically at 100% increase oh okay so so in the um the second article where it's highlighted it has to say that because you could go from zero to 100 got it okay um it could be a percentage okay so I I will amend my motion slightly to include that the where it is highlighted U that it will say 100% second okay okay uh any further discussion on that okay all those in favor all great thank you and thank you all for joining very much and thank you on behalf of your American Legion Post Disabled American Veterans the past pres uh past uh Commander uh State commander of Disabled American Veterans uh and what else are we Long Meadow veterans Council which you may not know exist but it does I'm a member of that well and and all the rest of our bu thank you so much for your consideration you can I say one more thing I'm just going to jump in can I say something I don't know if you all have met personally Earl Godfrey but I'm going to take this for a second don't even start with me um just so you're aware Earl is in his 80s he a he was a pilot in Vietnam um Earl still as well as Richard and they do claims for veterans who need to get a service connection disability and but for them I would not be able to be a successful as I am additionally so you know he out like I can't keep up with him sometimes he does these things he is also the commander of the American Legion in Long Meadow and he is also the president of the Long Meadow veterans Council and it's just really important to me especially at a forum like this to acknowledge that because he rarely rarely lets me and this time I just got to do it and he didn't get a choice yeah he's blushing thank very much for your support and and we all love trees well thank you all for joining us thank you for your service thank you so much appreciate it all right get our Che okay uh next up is the uh District local technical assistance request approval and so this is a vote to authorize the select board chair to sign letter the letter of support and so this deals with our uh climate action plan ly do you want to explain that a little B yeah uh so pbpc Piner Valley Planning Commission put out a call to communities to submit dlta projects um we have submitted one due to the timing of the select word meeting schedule we had to have this in uh and so as you'll see in this letter here I signed it but it really needs to come from the select board and so we committed to bring this letter forward to you to seek approval and then we would substitute um your name in for mine to to make it official uh if the board chose to if you choose not to um to do this we'll just withdraw our application um but this will further our um uh climate action plan work that PBP has been doing in conjunction with the energy and sustainability committee this is really the next a next phase of that great thank you yeah Mark what's the downside and you know do we is there any chance we don't get funding for this uh there's chance we don't get funding it goes into a pool um pbpc gets to decide but um it we normally get funded uh and then the downside would be that if we were putting this project over another one potentially but we don't have another project to submit for this typee of funding all right anything else I just noticed in your letter that you have uh K listed as the yeah project manager um and would that just be you or some else can take it off uh it'll it'll um definitely be Amir who is our new energy manager um and then I it will either be me or um just air okay or both Lu all right uh anything else all right so I will uh I move that we um authorize the select board chair to sign the letter of support can I argue that you shouldn't make the motion since it's you that's being authorized I just waiting for somebody to do it that's just well just call for a motion but I think that's go ahead somebody else take it I move that that we um have the select board chair uh draft the sign the the uh District local technical assistance request approval letter second okay any further discussion all right all those in favor all right great all right next up we're going uh moving into our street closure applications uh we've got a street closure um couple street closure applications for the lacrosse jamb Brees over on Russell Fields um these are for um Sunday April 27th and uh Sunday May 4th um any comments questions motions I'll move we approve the uh lacrosse event street closer applications for April 27th and May 5th 2025 uh noting the uh conditions put on by Chief stocks May 4th but correction May 4th that's sorry what did I say second second oh y all right so May fourth we seconded it um any further discussion okay um all those in favor all right great uh I I think here for La Cross Jamberry applications right I am okay it was easy it's already approved thank you yeah thanks for joining us um next up is the sustainability Fair uh street closure application um so this is a new event and this is an application for Saturday May 3rd uh new new sustainability fair I think will also include members or students from L High School um any discussion questions i' love to know more about the sustainability that's a different issue I mean is this like a replacement for Long Meadow days or a replacement I don't know anything about it yeah no yeah my understanding it was the climate Club in conjunction with the energy and sustainability committee looking to host some sort of informative event for residents yeah all right all right well I um move to approve the street closure application um for the sustainability fair to be held on Saturday May 3rd 2025 on the Long Town grade second uh any further discussion all right all those in favor and then we've got a one-day liquor license application have we approve uh two1 day two La CCF liquor license applications for uh an vent on January 30th 2025 and February 6 2025 I'm sorry three and February 27th 2025 second any further discussion all those in favor all those opposed okay next we've got our Animal control officer designation for 2025 uh this is um just something we have to do to designate Marty Lee who has been our Animal control officer and has been doing a great job um I move to uh designate uh Marty Lee what's last Caron um as our 2025 anal control officer second any further discussion jump in the G all those in favor all right and then last uh we've got our MMA annual business meeting voting procedures so um hopefully you all had a chance to look at the four resolutions that um will be voted on at the MMA conference this weekend um any discussion questions on these um basically um I as a select board chair will have to go and vote um you know for the town um on these and so I don't know if we want to you know vote on each resolution or just vote them vote on all of them together but there's yeah go ahead I'll make a motion we point point benath the our chairman to vote on behalf of the town of Long Meadow at the annual MMA business meeting second okay any further discussion all right all those in favor great and then correspondents any comments on correspondence uh yeah I just had a quick question so the um the Cannabis home delivery service that that is done right because they can't do that because we have a bylaw can't have stores I was asking for Action I just don't think that there's any action the select board couldn't authorize based on what my reading this is um this has been asked of us uh so we've been working with Town Council on this um there is just quickly I can read you the response that we have um there's no written process for a municipal municipality to opt in there's no guidance on this issue um sorry let me back up a little bit okay this is specific to process for authorizing delivery um and this is where there isn't actually a written process for opting in by a municipality there's no guidance on the issue it could be done by forwarding a select board Vote or town meeting depending on Municipal baser Charter um for Long Meadow they believe it would need to be a warrant article um or a ballot that says the shall the town allow for delivery of cannabis Within its border then we would provide the Cannabis Control Commission with a certified copy of the vote it's a long answer to say it's status quo for what we have right now there is a mechanism if we there was a desire to allow delivery oh okay I thought I read that the bar to retail establishments that was the end of the story um we believed that to be the case it does not sound that it's as clean cut as that okay great just curious and somebody asked me about it anything else all right I move that we adjourn second any further discussion all those in favor great all right thank you everyone thank you