[Applause] Good. All right. So, like to call this meeting to order. Uh, Monday, November 17th, 2025. It is uh 6:47 p.m. So, like to uh uh stand up and do the
pledge in allegiance. Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Take a roll call.
Mike Harding here. >> Jeremy Briner >> here. >> Council member Boseka >> here. >> And Tim Cash >> here. All right. Anybody had uh chance to look over the uh agenda
have any questions, edits? If not, I'll take a motion to approve the agenda. >> Motion. >> Motion by Mike Pard. >> Second. Seconded by Tim Cass. All approved.
>> I I >> I opposed. None. Motion carries. 300. All right. Now, approval of uh the minutes. And do I end up reading these two?
No. Anybody have any questions of these uh of these minutes? There are none. I'll take a motion. >> Motion. >> Motion by Mark Mike Harding. >> Second. >> Second by Tim Cass.
All right. Now we move on to the public hearings. And this uh public hearing, the first one is public hearing for ordinance 2205-336, an ordinance amending city code 153.077 off streetet parking and storage on
residential property. >> Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh just one moment, please. Okay. All right. Uh, good evening, uh, planning and zoning commission. Um, it keeps on booting me out. Um, live
streaming the packet. What? >> I know that that's a thing. I don't have access to my public drive to just go to my Let's try this.
All right, I think this should work. >> You don't have a public You don't have the server on there. >> No, just keep going. All right, Mr. Chair, here we go. All right. Uh, tonight's public hearing, ordinance 2025 3336, ordinance amending
city code 153.077, off streetet parking and storage on residential property. At the October 28, 2025 meeting, the commission approved staff to schedule the public hearing for ordinance 2025 336 and ordinance amending city code 153.077. 1077 Off
Street parking and storage on residential property. Staff issued the mandatory 10-day public hearing notification which was advertised in the lawndale news review commencing November 4th uh 2020 25. No public comments uh
have been received at this time. Uh summary of updates include updates update recreational vehicle seasonal to include offseason vehicles shall not be parked in the front yard area. Deletion of hunting waterfall boats from
seasonal classification of recreational vehicles and associated trailers. Change low and high power golf carts to golf carts. Uh simplification of standard vehicle weight definition.
Update utility trailer definition from not to exceed 16 ft to 14 ft. And then update standard vehicle side corner lock garage side pad side pad setback measurement from back
of curb set back to 5 ft. Currently 10 ft from property line. Update standard vehicles at rear yard setback to five feet. Currently 10 feet. Update utility trailers front yard set back to five feet.
The list goes on. Update utility trailers side corner lock garage side pad uh setback measurement from back of curb. Um update minor recreational vehicles side corner lock garage side pad setback measurement from back of curb.
Update major recreational vehicles side corner lot garage side pad setback measurement from back of curb. Update minor commercial vehicles side corner lot garage side pad setback measurement from back of curb. Incorporate alley and
side corner lot into seven uh setback measurement. Update uh uh A surface only concrete or asphalt for driveway and parking areas. Update C size. Garage side parking pads
may be constructed up to 14 ft wide. Driveway access from a single family detached dwelling should not exceed the width of the garage at the property line maximum of 36 ft uh which is ever is less. Update vehicle shelters to not
permitted. Removal deletion of screening requirements update C maintenance content for non-parking areas uh removal of D exception of non-conforming status removal of four other unique situations
for special permits removal of five issuance of a special permit and removal of six conditions of special permit and then finally removal of seven termination of special permit. Items for discussion tonight include
recreational vehicle uh seasonal page one staff is recommending that offseason vehicle shall not be parked in the front yard. C vehicle limit page two staff is recommending one commercial vehicle
shall be counted as two standard vehicles. And then E, general regulations. Staff is recommending a new addition of driveway of a driveway zoning permit. So, Mr. Chair, uh let's this open uh this let's open this up for review and
discussion. >> Okay. Um who has any input uh you know to this or may want to talk about it >> because this is for the public right now.
>> This is open for the public right now. >> This is open for the public for right now. >> I'm assuming nobody >> nobody wants to speak of this. So, if there is nobody, then we've closed the public hearing for this one. So, um we're going to go ahead and close
the public hearing for this. Uh it doesn't take a motion, does it? >> We need a motion here. >> Let's make a motion to uh close the public hearing on this. >> I'll make that motion. >> Tim Guest made motion. >> Second, Mike Harding. Second. All
>> All approved. I I >> All opposed. 30. All right. Next uh public hearing is for public hearing for the ordinance 2025-337, an ordinance adopting rules and regulations pertaining to wetland
buffer. Thank you, Mr. Chair. At the October 20, 2025 meeting, the commission approved staff to schedule a public hearing for ordinance 2025 3337, an ordinance adopting rules and regulations pertaining to wetland buffer. staff issued the mandatory 10day public
hearing notification which was advertised in the lawn sale news review commencing November 4, 2025. Uh Mr. Chair, uh no public comments have been received at this time. Uh staff and the city engineer are recommending the wetland buffer ordinance below.
Uh as you could see, I'm going to not read the whole thing to you. You guys have it in the packet. As far as public comments go tonight, uh staff is uh staff worked with the city engineer in putting this draft or putting this
ordinance together, which uh at the last meeting staff stated that this wetland buffer clarification comes up quite frequently and this ordinance is a working ordinance uh that will benefit uh staff and the public for
clarification. Okay. So, we are now open for any public comments. And if there is none, um, I'll make I'll take a motion to close public comments. >> Motion.
>> Motion by Mark Hard. Mike Harding. >> Second by Tim Cass. >> Apparently, it marked them. >> All approved. I >> I All opposed. 300. Um, now the presentation for of citizen
petitions and comments. I'm assuming there's somebody here for that, so we can move along. Um, approval of the consent agenda. There is none. Moving on to old business.
uh review and consider approval to schedule a public hearing for December 15, 2025 at 700 p.m. or shortly after for ordinance 2025-334 and ordinance amending city code 153.078
off streetet parking loading and access. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh the public hearing for ordinance 2025334 took place at the uh prior to this agenda item tonight. Uh, no public comments were received prior or at the meeting. The commission uh approved the
update and to move ordinance 2025334 at the uh October to the October or 30th 2025 city council meeting. At that council meeting, staff recommended ordinance 334 uh to go back to the commission for a
holistic review. So on that discussion note, um the recommendation is to take a more holistic approach here. Uh instead of making just quick changes, the commission and the staff is recommending
the commission to step back and thoroughly review the whole ordinance. So this is why it's back here tonight. Um, at the October 2020 2025 planning and zoning meeting, the commission approved the removal of B and C from K, additional off- streetet loading
requirements. Uh, three locations. So, B, any commercial industrial off- streetet spaces shall be located at least 100 ft from any residential district and C, all loading spaces shall be located in the side or rear yard.
So this is a holistic approach uh that the staff did internally. So in your attachment uh please go to your um draft ordinance. So on page one B application of provisions the regulation requirements set forth in this chapter
shall apply to the required and non-required off- streetet facilities areas and all use districts. Page three D. All driveway shall have the minimum width of 10 ft with pavement strength capable of supporting emergency
and fire vehicles. Note base plus 6 in of concrete not consistent with HA1 of 12 uh 12 in page four except as f allowed by lease.
I think we just need to have a conversation on each of these. All right. So, are we really going to require that residential driveways support a firetruck? So, now we're looking at 6 in of concrete. >> That seems a little much. >> Yeah. I don't >> that I guess.
>> What's the standard right now? Four in >> typically for residential. Correct. >> Three and a half technically cuz they use a 2x4 as a >> frame form. >> And uh some of those driveways aren't even long enough for a firet truck. So, it's a mute point.
>> Yeah. why you would need to have a fire truck in your driveway. Most of them pull right up onto the street. They don't want to be that close to the fire to begin with. >> Mhm. >> Uh could be for commercial entrance. >> Okay. >> Commercial >> multif family. I I guess so after the
planning commission reviewed a 12-page ordinance, there was the last two things were um discussed, nothing else. And that's why I'm recommending that when the planning commission reviews these ordinances, >> we just don't cherrypick one or two
things, but we take a holistic approach and review everything. >> And I guess that's why I recommended or told Cory to bring it back to the planning commission. So that that's why um he highlighted on
page one B that it's um in all use districts. >> That's residential and commercial you're saying or is this small? >> Yep. Residential and business. >> Okay. >> I mean I think you know commercial and
industrial for like aprons and stuff is is pretty standard 6 in of concrete, >> right? But that's why I'm saying it's very important to be looking at a at these ordinances holistically and not just cherrypick a couple things.
So I mean I didn't want to mean to interrupt but >> No, no, no. I I think you're right. So we need to figure out a way how to so discuss this. So we're on page 3D. All driveways shall have a minimum width of uh 10 uh inches with or with pavement
strength capable of supporting emergency and fire vehicles. Note uh base plus six of concrete. So do we have any recommend? So we're thinking the 10 in with the 10 ft and then base plus six
inches of concrete. >> Well, is it even necessary? not in residential. >> Could be for commercial. >> Uh I'd have to look at our uh standard detail plate, but I believe that we already have it that it's for like those
aprons 6 to 8 in of concrete. >> And that's just commercial or is that everything residential? based off the ordinances everything. So our apron on our house is 68 in I guess I look there
four say mine isn't six cuz I can see under mine because the concrete >> well somewhere ashevolt too driveways. Yeah but the apron's always concrete. >> I guess you never sat out there and watched them when they poured it.
I guess I don't know. >> So, what are we wanting to do with this? Are we changing at all or >> are are you want to keep it? Do we not want to have it? >> Well, not only not only is it a question of if we want to have it, it contradicts in >> the be the
>> the instead of the 10 ft with, you know, uh with the 10 ft, >> right? >> Uh H A1, where's that? H A1 uh says it needs to be 12 ft. So if we want to keep it, we should at
least have a consistent number. >> Mhm. >> HA1 has a minimum 10 12 ft width and this is a blank one saying 10 ft for everybody. Where's H? What do we want to do? Change it to 12.
>> Oh, it's right at the top. [Music] You know, because if the planning commission wants to keep these requirements, then at a minimum, we should have the consistent width 102 or or whatever. >> What does everybody think? >> I'd get rid of it. Um, nope.
>> I find the No, that in residential I can't find it in my emails, but Joe Pumper said they'd stay on the street. The only time they would go off it would be for the apartments or commercial fires. They'd fight from the street.
>> So you're saying >> I don't disagree with you. >> And he actually said it would >> probably be worse off to take it into a residential property. >> But is this going to apply to our new
hopeful apartment buildings here too? That would >> is that going to be more than a third foot. >> Well, but isn't that for all? >> We could make it just for commercial properties. >> Well, we already have detailed plates that spell that out, >> right?
>> I mean, your spec book's like 500 pages and and it spells all that out. >> Okay. Okay. >> So, you're saying get rid of it? I'd get rid of the residential part for sure. And then for the apartment buildings, the state fire marshall has to sign off on everything for those
plans before it's going to go into effect. Anyways, so we're going have state recommendations there. I guess we're doing the fire suppression system >> that go fire suppression probably going to be shelter in place,
which if you have a shelter in place, please keep your doors closed. The fire department would appreciate that. >> All right. >> So, we're recommending that um 2D we strike it. I'd strike it.
What do you think, Mike? >> I don't see a problem with it. J for it, too. I guess you know this is you know cuz yeah residential who's going to have a 10 foot wide driveway
99% of them wouldn't um yeah you know is there going to be any one off in the future that's going to bite us in the room probably but you guys are for it I'll be for too
uh page four number four except as allowed by lease agreement approved by the city. The site used for meeting the off- streetet parking requirement shall be under the same ownership as a principal use under public ownership.
So the biggest question here is what happens when the lease is not renewed? Whoa. Um, explain to me when would the city be allowing a lease agreement? I'm not following this. I'm >> basically the business wouldn't have
enough parking on site, so they would enter into a lease with another property owner to um accommodate the parking. Okay, I guess I never thought about that. And I'm not saying it's bad, but then it
contradicts number seven where it says except as allowed by a lease agreement approved by the city. Then seven says um shall maintain ownership And if we want to allow a lease, we can allow a lease. Again, my point of bringing this up was looking
holistically and not laser focus on two things out of a 12-page ordinance. I mean, and I think all these things are kind of just as a minimum guideline, but I would think any business that comes in, I
mean, you got to work with them. I mean to try and anticipate every single little thing, you're never gonna >> Well, then should we have a zoning orange that says just work with people? >> Yeah, probably. >> I you know,
>> I personally strike seven and keep four. >> That's what I was thinking because seven doesn't really make sense. for at least has a premise of whoever owns the property keeps
ownership. Seven makes it sound like whoever's parking in there, whoever's using the parking process is owning it. >> Nothing. Yeah. Uh, except there's enough. >> I would get rid of seven. Seven just
>> It's confusing. >> Yes, >> it makes it so. >> So then the city approves a lease for off- streetet parking. The lease is terminated. The business doesn't meet or the use doesn't meet the parking
requirements. And then someone comes up with a site plan and just says, "Well, they don't have enough parking. Why do I have to have it?" Well, they had a lease at one time. Oh, okay. >> So, it's a little it's a little bit of imple It's a little bit of the
implementation as well. It's not just, >> you know, >> Well, then I would strike seven and change four. I would say on her four to change the or at least add the wording that you know regardless
of ownership if they don't need this the parking anymore and they think they can build their own then more power to them. But I mean if they're not if they're not going to have a permit they're just not going to be allowed to park off site.
So then how does the city enforce that? >> We'd have to work. >> I mean the reason that you're using off streetet parking is one you don't have the cash to construct it or two you don't have the land. >> Now what is I mean so this is saying we have to have x amount of sites per business park.
>> Correct. Now this is is um whatever uh B2 and and O whatever out here 01 OI and stuff >> um what is the requirement? How many is it based upon the square
footage of it or is this mo >> most of it is correct >> by by a square foot do we know what it is per square foot is I mean >> it it varies depending on on the business >> right >> I mean how many parking stalls did courtship have to have 47 correct >> okay
>> um the apartment that we just reviewed today had to have what 121 >> parking spots >> and that was x number of stalls for twobedroom and less Right? >> And x number of stalls for two bedrooms and more. >> Okay?
>> Then you have half a stall per unit for visitor parking. >> Okay? >> Based on the assumption that not every apartment's going to have a visitor, >> right? >> Yeah. Holy cow. So let's say for instance number four um a building they
build something out here in industrial park warehouse whatever we have to have so many um parking spots and there wouldn't be enough on that site to accommodate it so they could lease piece of property next to them and we could
use that for off-site parking. Correct. So if that falls apart or that business closes and they don't need that, is that other property still encumbered or that parking or can that just be wiped away because that business is no
longer here? So I have a hard time following this is >> so whatever. I have a business and I'm required to have 50 parking stalls, right? My property only allows for 25. I enter into a lease with Tim to use part
of his parking stalls for the remaining 25. >> Boom. I've met the 50 within the 100 to 500 ft, whatever the requirement is. Tim says, "You know what? I want to end my lease. I'm selling. I don't want any issues with selling it in the next
property owner having to deal with this. It's going to be easier for me to sell without leasing spaces to you in my parking lot." >> Mhm. Now I'm down to 25 stalls. The next guy comes in and says, "Well,
why do I have to follow the parking? He only has 25. He should have 50." >> He Well, he did at one time >> because of the lease. >> No one no one's leaving city hall saying that's a good enough reason for me. >> No. >> And in that
>> So, it's one thing to establish these ordinances. It's another for the implementation. >> Right. and enforcing it >> and and maybe nothing changes. All right. I think you have to keep both, you know,
to cover yourself, right? To cover the city to to be able to enforce that example, too. >> But they contradict each other. >> They do. But then the lease agreement though, if you if you if you're leasing,
you're obtaining the ownership of that once you sign a lease more or less, you're the owner of those parking spaces until >> the lease expires or it's not renewed. That then becomes the the issue,
>> the problem. >> Yeah. Okay. >> You know, has it happened? Not that I'm aware of. Will it ever happen? I I don't know. >> Can you explain why we can't use street furniture for some of those parking spots? Because there's probably people watching that would like to know that
also. >> Um, we just don't count those because they can be used by everybody. I I don't know. It's supposed to be on street. >> Yeah. >> Or I'm sorry, off street. >> Off street.
I don't know if there's an easy answer for that. There never is. Some of those businesses will never reach that number anyways because they don't have customers lasting long enough. But if you look at our parking lot, we have to have x number of
stalled, but there's usually three cars there at most. >> Oh, absolutely. It's worst case scenario. Mhm. >> You know, no different than the number of bathrooms we have to have have in here because of the plumbing code. Just based off of the occupancy of this room, >> not the you know, what is it? Five
people that are here the vast majority of the time. >> What do other cities do? Do they have any Everyone is different. >> Different. Yeah. >> I don't know. What do you guys think? Ah,
>> I don't think we can strike it. I don't think we can strike one of them without adding verbiage to the other. >> Maybe it doesn't all get done tonight. I I don't know. But >> yeah. Damn it. >> Should we table that one and move on?
>> Yeah, we can. >> All right. Page four, number six. Off-site uh parking for non-residential uses shall not be located more than 500 ft from the main public entrance of the principal use being served. Remove off-site parking located more
than 500 ft from the main entrance may may be allowed with the provisions of private shuttle service. Uh, is the commission okay? Removing the off-site striking the off-site parking located more than 500 feet from the main
entrance may be allowed with the provisions of private shuttle service. I >> think it's okay and I go with that. >> Yeah. >> So, striking that. >> Yeah. I don't see anybody ever having that problem.
>> Or at a minimum is the shuttle. >> Yeah. I don't think I've seen a shuttle come through town. So, yeah, >> I've only seen it like this used once when they did the weddings at the farm where they used the the church for their parking.
>> Oh, did they? >> They sh they shut it via a bus because they didn't they >> instead of using that field. >> Mhm. >> It was muddy or whatnot. >> We wouldn't have jurisdiction over that anyways cuz that's how the country. So, leave off-site parking located more
than 500 ft from the main entrance and then remove may be allowed with the provisions of private shuttle service. Is that what I'm gathering here? >> Yep. >> All right. Here's a page four number seven. This is what we were just talking about. Whether to leave it or remove it.
Uh, any use which depends upon off-site parking to meet the requirements of this chapter shall maintain ownership and parking utilization of the off-site location until such time as onsite parking is provided or site in closer
proximity to the principal use is acquired and developed for parking. We talked about striking this, but then we talked about, well, do we need to keep it because of the number four?
Uh, four, page four, number four, >> number four and seven, and maybe peak at what some of the other cities are doing to kind of mediate that just because of the fact that it's kind of a It's kind of a
double-edged sword. You you're if you you strike one, then Yeah. you're going to have to completely reward the other one. >> Mhm. >> All right. So, this I'm assuming this is one's tabled all. So, we'll gather >> because they kind of go together. And I
would say maybe it's our best bet if we look around and see what other people are doing. >> Get an idea because I don't have an easy answer for that. Five. Uh, page five, A1, single family residential dwellings. Um, 28 ft does
not align with proposed ordinance 2025 336 driveway and parking areas C size. So, in our other part in the ordinance that we'll be talking about
in our public hearings public hearing um addresses this and this is what Joel was talking about is aligning taking your time and making sure that the changes that we're making in other ordinances reflect upon the ones that are also impacted.
Page five, county roads. Curb cuts into county roads shall be referenced to the Rice County Highway Department. We're talking about Main Street here. And then the county is going to differ defer to the city.
Only Main Street would pertain to railway too. Yeah. Beyond roads. Uh curbing. All open off streetet parking shall have a perimeter concrete curb barrier around the entire parking lot. Exceptions
residential single family, two family townhouse dwellings or two special parking situations approved by the city city engineer his or her design. examples, car wash, uh grocery store in
city parks >> cuz I know the I know there's a car wash in town that's moving rock around in lie of uh in lie of the curbs. Correct? >> Mhm.
Max does now curb on that grass side >> and they have a ribbon curve across the whole side on one end. >> I think I can't think of anybody else that wouldn't have a curb in the town the mill. Oh yeah,
I guess the back of rail where they have the black top. >> Yeah. And this is by no means trying to single anyone out at all. >> I know. I'm just I'm trying to think of examples of where it would be an issue.
Honestly, I I'm not really seeing that being a massive issue cuz most of the places that don't have a curb all the way around their parking lot, there's reasons. >> Makes it easier for plowing. >> Yeah. The number one reason is probably money.
>> What does curb cost a foot? It's not cheap. >> 25 30 bucks a foot. Well, can we just do this for festival sound here? >> No, the curb cut. We open that up on them.
This is one of the number two special parking situations. I mean, I think it is kind of addressed by that point. I don't see no browns of what it is. Does it have to be highback or ribbon curving counts too?
>> Is ribbon curving like mac and tunes? >> Yeah. where it's back. >> No, ribbon would just be like there just a strip of >> concrete >> of concrete just so that that edge of the the batuminous doesn't slough off, >> right?
>> Um yeah, the high back would be the the typical >> normal >> main street we'll say, you know, or some of our older subdivisions. And then we switched to surmountable, which is just drive over everywhere just because there
had to be curb, you know, driveway curb cuts put in and they didn't always line up with the garage or what ended up getting built on it. So there was, you know, portions of them removed or all of them removed where the highback it
doesn't. You just pour right up to it. And it the curbing isn't addressed anywhere in the zoning or any statutes for for the city. It's whatever the agreement is. >> Do we know that?
>> Uh this is saying it's a requirement, >> right? But it doesn't say high or low or is that >> uh No, it wouldn't >> that doesn't pertain pertain to it. So >> I mean most parking lots would have the the highback,
>> right? >> And that's what this is, right? >> Offite offsite parking, right? >> Or off streetet parking >> because then what then then what the cost increases you have to have storm sewer. >> Mhm.
where if you don't have it, it just drains into the grass. >> But if you got that curb there, Yeah. >> it can't just sit and build up and build up if it freezes, right? >> Or ponds with, you know, in the summer. It's got to be there's got to be a drainage system to to get the water out
of there. Yeah. See, >> if that's all we want, that's fine. >> I don't know if I like that whole all off street parking should have concrete curb barrier. Well, do we keep track of the special parking situations
where it says I think Tim brought that up under number two of it where it says special parking situations approved by the city engineer. >> Can we keep track of any of that >> festival music or music whatever they're called? >> Well, all we did was apply a variance
for like 100 plus foot wide >> right >> access. That's going to be a nightmare in the spring and anytime it rains cuz it's going to track all over Florida Street. And it didn't even solve the parking problem cuz we got a parking complaint today on it. So, we basically just moved all those trailers from First Avenue
down to Florida Street. >> So, I mean like uh So the curve cut did nothing to solve anything. >> Made it easier to get >> to get in. Yeah. >> Yeah. If they're parked there >> and he's not right now. He's parking elsewhere.
>> Is that what the complaint was? You said >> correct. >> Oh, they're parking on Florida Street. >> So people are questioning how they going to access their sites. >> Nice. >> Back trailers and get deliveries, what have you. Well, yeah. I I put it like said like a
business like uh in whatever we call fixture place here and stuff for a parking lot. We have a big parking lot. Put curving all the way around. I could see good points to it and good points not for it. >> Um, I mean added expense, but it would
keep the water controlled or would force it to the storm sewers. Boy, I don't know. Or what if you start flooding on your neighbor? Yeah. You know, I'm okay with the actually the
way it is, right? You know, there's exceptions if something comes up that leaves an out. You know, you don't want on residential lots, twin homes, town homes. I'm fine with it. Jeremy, how about you?
>> Yeah, I'm okay with it, too. >> Leaving it to be >> Mhm. >> I can't think of any recommendations on changing it. >> Yeah. Page five. Uh number five, surfacing.
All parking spaces and driveway shall be uh be surfaces with concrete buminous or pavers. So the thought behind that is is we're making people >> either use concrete or asphalt for their parking pads. >> Yeah. And here it has pavers.
>> Correct. >> That's what I was wondering. I thought we just changed an ordinance >> for parking pads. >> Yeah. I think >> or come >> I personally think pavers are like a temporary fix. If it's a parking >> I think there's one pa driveway in town.
>> It'd be cheaper to stamp it. >> I would say I say we we strike the pavers. >> All right. Pavers are not meant for long-term storage of a vehicle anyway. >> I wouldn't park my car on them.
>> All right. Page six, number two. Use of parking area. Required off- streetet parking spaces in all districts shall not be used for open storage or sale of goods or for storage of vehicles which are inoperable for lease rent or sale
or for stockpiling of snow. And I guess the staff question is is this realistic? Not really on some of those bad winters because those piles get pretty big and
only the main street businesses are fortunate enough to get their snow hauled away. I'm sure. Is there a situation where this might be happening or no? We have an example of like somebody He's using it for
>> Oh, I think the main thing was was the the stockpiling of snow. >> Snow. Okay. >> I mean, I would assume the theory behind that is is, hey, the city requires X number of parking stalls, >> right? >> They should be available, >> right? >> And this is just a parking area that's
designated >> um by the city or when they went through the permitting process. I was thinking like Mindak and stuff. They got their they lot across the south the south side of the road there. But that's for their
storage for all their walls. So that would apply to this. That's not a parking area, I guess. >> Yeah. I guess >> it was by the last user. >> What's that? >> It was by the last owner. >> Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I would guess, you know,
probably straight that stockpiling of snow. I'd be for with that. and all you're not using it to sell anything. Um, no vehicles sitting there. They're inoperable. It's not a car lot.
>> But this is saying that we don't want it to be used for this, right? >> That is correct. >> So, I don't know if I would want to strike stockpiling because then that's going to allow businesses to stockpile snow. Right. No, >> if we strike it, we wouldn't want them
to be able to >> shall not be used for open storage or sale of goods or for the storage of vehicles or for the so that we don't want it to be
>> right. That was my thoughts too. I I think it's okay the way it is >> unless we want to add something to it. >> Yeah. And if you guys are find shall not be used.
>> Why would Don't we want to strike it? Because it says it should not be used for the stock. No, wait a minute. >> It's saying don't. So, we want to take that off of there so that they can
if I'm reading this right use of parking area required off street parking spaces in all districts shall not be used for open storage or sale of goods or for the storage of vehicles which are inoperable
uh for lease, rent or sale or for the stockpiling of snow. >> So, >> right now it's saying no snow stockpiling in this extra lot. >> So, if we strike that then sales of good though, right? So, I could see like
maybe parking lots being used for like a farmers market. >> Yeah. >> But this is saying that it can't be used for that. >> Correct. >> That is correct. >> I would almost think of maybe
striking the sale of goods for the farmers market being able to use a a parking lot >> and maybe put a limit on >> I mean how you say that is it food trucks >> right >> right yeah
>> so I would change the sale of goods and maybe limit the stockpiling of snow to 10% of your off street parking okay so you got a little room you can pile it up before you have to, you know, start
using it. So, if you have 50 spots, you can use five spots to stockpile snow. Yeah, it's not going to be great, but at least you got someplace to put stuff for a while. >> Actually saying required. Some P laces have 50 and they only need 40. The next
place has 40 and they needed 42, >> right? That would be a tough one >> to even enforce too >> because they ain't giving them an option. >> Mhm. >> Cuz I mean, you know, we haven't had
much snow lately, but one of these days it's going to come back. >> Right. I think the theory behind it is is, you know, the parking was established for, you know, so people park off street. Right. >> Mhm. >> Now those off- streetet parking stalls
are being used for other purposes and now parking is on the street. >> Yeah. It's it's I don't know. To me, it just seems like we're we're putting a lot of undue thought into something that's
>> not as difficult. I'm just saying is it realistic? Mm-m. I'm not saying change it, >> right? I'm just saying though, to me, it just seems like some of these people maybe have a lot and they've got a corner where it's not being used or maybe people don't park
because of where it's at. We could let them pile snow up for a little while while they're, you know, while things are going on. To me, that would help the business owner, you know, like smoke. If you go back by those dumpsters, nobody ever parks in
that back corner over there cuz it's just not a great spot to park. Most people would park on the street before they would park over in that corner. Let them pile up some snow over there. That That's just my opinion. >> Usually they do use the less optimal
parking spots for snow. They're not >> Exactly. Nobody's going to put them in the first four rows if they can help. You don't want to block your business. >> Has it ever actually been a problem even with the stockpiling the snow? Because most of these businesses have been
established for a while and they have their spots where they pile the snow. >> Um, I guess not that I'm aware of. Yeah, I was trying to think of a scenario where >> And again, that wasn't the point of me bringing this up. >> Yeah, it's just is it should we modify
it? Should be Yeah, just think about it more or less, right? I mean, that's why you're bringing it up. >> Mhm. >> I mean, so if a business piles snow up there and somebody actually knows about this ordinance and calls it in, so they
have to make them you have to make them move it. >> Yeah. Do we want to do that? I don't know. I mean, if it's 30 in of snow or big snowy winter, you know, you got to be a little reasonable with them. >> Mhm. >> I'd say remove that stockpiling of snow
and and the sale of goods and >> let stay there. >> I'd also remove the sale of goods. That way we can add food trucks and >> cuz when a food truck comes in town, they don't have to get a permit or anything, do they? Or >> how does that all work? >> Not not for private property.
>> No. So, >> so when that other one was on Main Street, >> they had >> he had to get a permit from the city to be on there >> on the county road. >> Oh, okay. >> So, like if they go when they do it at the park over >> We should have made him get a permit. I think that the city, right? >> When they do that food truck day over at
the park. I can't remember what park it is. Um it's the one by the baseball diamond over there as you have by the fire department. >> Oh, yeah. >> Mhm. >> They would have to get a permit for that. >> Okay. Yeah, cuz I know they had like the food truck days over there and that was fun. And I had a good time with those. >> Yep.
>> All right. So, do we have a recommendation here? Um, >> I think it was >> strike the sale of goods. >> Strike the sale of goods and um get rid of the stockpiling if No. >> Right, Tim? >> Yeah. I think I'd be reasonable with it.
>> Okay. Do Do we want to look at differentiating between zoning districts? I mean just why? Well, because or for the storage of vehicles which are inoperable for lease, rent, or sale. What if I want to sell my
truck? I can't put a for sale sign in my driveway. >> That's a good point. >> Is it inoperable though? >> Selling it. >> He's got a good point. What if you're driving around with a for sale sign in your truck because you're getting free advertising while you're at work, while
you're at the grocery store, and does that dame the owner of the property that >> Well, what's most people are going to Facebook obviously to try to sell it, but >> but I mean, let's >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> What's to prevent you from every week going buying one off of Facebook and
trying to sell it, >> flipping it yourself and stuff? Um, then that's a kind of a nuisance for the neighbors, too. Always with the cars, I'd say. >> Oh, yeah. Or I don't live by
heavily traveled uh intersection, but there's one two blocks away, so I park it there for >> Yeah. >> the weekend. >> Yeah, >> it happens. Yeah. >> I'd still say take the sale of goods in the stock pile of snow and butterfly.
Jeremy, >> I think so too. Um, but your example was saying the sale of goods is a car. >> Well, >> I mean it it it could >> does say >> so it says for the storage of vehicles which are inoperable. >> Yeah.
>> For lease, rent or sale. I'm thinking of sale of goods as being like a farmers market type of sale of goods, but I mean the interpretation could be different, right? >> Yeah, I would agree that that would be the sales of um
>> goods, but cars cars are goods. >> I mean, there's people I drive by all the time that have like a trailer for sale sitting in their driveway or a car for sale sitting in their driveway. I mean, are we going or, you know, Yeah, >> I highly doubt that. Ordinance
violation. >> I mean, like he said, though, are you going to be just flipping cars? Probably not. >> Most people aren't doing that cuz there's not a lot of money to be made most of that stuff because you got to invest heavily. >> But, uh,
>> yeah, I would just stick with the >> the two. >> Yep. The two strike those two and be done. Move on to the next one. >> All right. Page 12. A. At no time shall any part of a truck or van be allowed to
extend into the right of way of a public street or alley while the truck or van is being loaded or unloaded. Um referencing Main Street business district area. >> Basically, it's any business that
doesn't have a >> Yeah. a parking lot or a loading dock on on their property. I mean >> through and mostly there are through no fault of their of >> of the owners. It's just the way that it is.
>> Rail 19, how would they get their stuff? You know, cuz how far does >> I'm sure I'm sure it's in the back, but >> how far does your lot go up? Usually they park on our lot >> because on the west side of the building the boundary line is 8 ft from the building.
>> Yeah. So, good luck. >> What's it on the uh north side? >> The building split in half where the door is out of the kitchen. It jotss out a little more and then it's like 20 ft from the building. But where the
dumpster is, it's 8 ft from the I >> mean, I certainly acknowledge that some properties don't have the capabilities of >> Yeah. >> loading and unloading on private property. >> That's why it's easy to just say Main
Street, right? >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> And there's other businesses around too, don't get me wrong, but >> I think they meant that they don't want you to block somebody from traveling. >> Oh, yeah. >> Don't block the curb. Don't block the
alley be pulled completely off to the side. Like >> when Carquest gets their deliveries, it's pretty late at night. It >> goes all the way off to the side and takes up three or four parallel with the curb spot. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Cuz when I unloaded all that
lumber, >> the truck was halfway in the road because the trailer's so long. Well, how do I unload the lumber any other way? I mean, it's got to be within reason. cuz it's not like we were there for a long time. We were only there for 20
minutes unloading quickly and we were watching traffic. So that that would make sense to add in >> um >> Main Street >> just for Main Street. >> Well, yeah, you can't just stay Main Street. There's there's others throughout town. >> Does it go back to Tim's comment about a
standard? >> Yeah, a minimum standard, right? >> You know, I doubt that the the police department is when they're driving around town and someone's unloading or loading in in the street or alley, they're stopping.
>> Right. >> Right. >> And say like >> but is it to Jaime's point where you know Car West there the delivery, you know, parks parallel at 9:30 at night, 10:00 at night >> to the curb versus um perpendicular
>> and does take up the drive lane. You know, there are situations where traffic is blocked. >> When South 40 used to be open, they pretty much just park on the center line, >> right in the center. Yep. >> And then people could come around them. It would We should make it so it doesn't
impede traffic. Just park so you're not impeding traffic. >> Or if there's a cattle trailer in the same alleyway that's blocking the alley for a few hours. So suggestions are adding verbiage for not impeding traffic
>> or you could just leave it the same. I mean, >> you know, how far does this go along? >> Yeah. >> You know, hey, I'm unloading uh shingles for a new house or a re-roof or rafters or lumber for construction.
That all happens in the street, right? >> Usually they'll pull off to the side of the street though, not stay in. >> Do we want to take this out completely? >> Oh, I think it's important to have have some language >> something in there. And again, >> can you put like a time frame on it for
no more than one hour or something like that? >> But yeah, >> I also think we should add something for impeding traffic too, you know, the best that they can, right? If they're they are going to block some sort of traffic
lanes, >> it shouldn't impede, you know, both ways of traffic, right? There should be a way to get around >> or going to your house from an alley, >> right? or trying to leave your house from an alley. >> And I also think that there should be a
time limit on it of some sort >> and I would tend to agree that that's the reason that it's in there is for impeding traffic that which has been you know obviously you guys >> stated. The other thing is though is anybody really saying anything about I mean when
I did it nobody complained. My neighbors were all there helping me. So, nobody was really complaining. And have we gotten calls about it, people parking, blocking traffic? >> Well, this could apply to the female, too.
>> Yeah. >> With the tra, you know, tractor and and wagon, >> you know. >> But really, they're on our property, though. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's right. Cuz he said he went how many feet out? Okay. Well, then that's a little different. I guess
>> too much. If you're on rebel, it's it's What would you want to see in there, Jason, >> for this ordinance? Stay the same. You're the one that's going to enforce it. >> It comes up every once in a while
there's an issue and it causes a traffic safety concern that needs to be addressed and that's Do >> you get a lot of repeat offenders? >> Like somebody that just doesn't get it?
>> No. Most is I think someone's doing Well, once you tell them, they usually stop, right? >> Not all the time. >> Yeah. Well, >> well, usually you're going to get >> Yeah. >> And again, I'm not saying it needs to be
changed. That wasn't the point of me bringing this stuff up. >> To me, it just seems like most people, if you tell them, "Hey, your vehicle's blocking traffic. You need to move it now." They'll probably move it. It's just easier than getting a ticket. >> So, any verbiage we want to add to it?
>> Time limit. >> Well, but then they can leave it alone. >> Stick into the street and be a safety concern >> for an hour or two or whatever time limit. >> Yeah. There's just so many different ways you could take it.
I mean, at least this gives a little bit of teeth for the police to go with it if somebody actually knows this ordinance, >> right? >> Um, you could say, "Well, I got an hour or two hours. I can stay here." >> Right. >> So, in this way, if somebody we just
leave it, >> the way it's worded, I think it just >> better the way it is. >> Yeah. Unless it's a problem, most people aren't going to see anything. But if it becomes a safety issue or a problem, then that's the time to bring it up. >> Yep. >> Yeah.
>> So, yeah, that makes sense. >> Leave her alone. >> I think so. >> All right, Mr. Chair. It seems like uh we still have some work on this one. So, as far as making a motion tonight,
um I think it's necessary to make a motion, we just bring it back to the next meeting, correct? With changes? >> Yeah, if there's a motion, I would assume it would be to to table it. >> Okay. Motion to table tonight, Mr. Chair.
>> Yes. So, uh we'll I'll take a a motion to uh table this one uh for that to review uh at the next meeting >> for four and seven. Right. Those are the two that we were really struggling with. >> Mhm. >> Okay. I'll make a motion on that.
>> Second. >> All in favor? >> I I >> All opposed. None. Carries 30. >> I'm moving on to old business. Uh 9B review and discuss permitted and conditional
uses for code city code 153.040 040 zoning districts H B-1 limited business I B-2 highway in business service uh J B-3 central businesses K I-1 light
indust industrial L I-2 medium indust industrial OI uh original industrial district and P CI commercial industrial district. All right, Mr. Chair, I'm not sure how
much we want to spend on this one tonight. This is a a pretty big discussion. Uh we're about an hour and 13 minutes in the meeting already. But uh at the October uh 20, 2025 meeting, the commission completed the review and recommended changes to design standards
in the commercial and industrial districts of city code 153.040. Under city council's direction, the commission has been requested to continue the review and discussion of permitted and conditional uses in the commercial and industrial zoning
districts. So, tonight, if we can kick things off with uh B1, limited business, uh that's on page uh three and four for uh permitted and conditional uses. But I do want to note and go on record here tonight that the city has received a
request for B1 ordinance amendment to incorporate storage into permitted uses. Uh staff's recommendation is to add warehousing as a permitted or conditional use. The definition of warehouse housing is warehousing is a
commercial storage of merchandise and personal property. So, if you go to your attachments here, pages three and four. All right. Uh, it's a highlighted permitted use. So in the B1 permitted use clinic club and lodge club and
lodges daycare centers licensed financial financial institutions without drive-through facilities included automated kiosk funeral home off sales personal services
place of worship professional and business office and services public buildings public parks and playgrounds schools, multi-tenant buildings, uh provided that the uses are specified as permitted uses in the B1 district.
And then retail shops, um, permitted accessories, uh, uses, accessory structures, private garages, fences, landscaping and decorative features, off- streetet parking, off or off- streetet loading and off- streetet
parking, signs, and then temporary buildings located for the purpose of construction on the premises for the period not to exceed the time necessary for such construction. So, do we want to take on the permitted uses? Uh, take a review and discuss the
permitted uses here. Is there anything we'd like to strike or add? Like I mentioned earlier, staff be recommending adding a warehouse or a warehouse to uh either permitted or
conditional uses here. >> I think we add it to I personally think that we should add it to the permitted uses. Yeah, I mean it makes sense. >> Mhm. >> For five um permitted accessory uses
storage. >> I'm sorry. That's the addition of storage. >> Yep. As in accessory uses. Considering we want stuff screened and inside buildings, we should allow for the buildings.
>> Any other uh additions or deletions? >> Did storage and warehouse, right? >> Mhm. Yes. >> I don't think so. >> All right. >> Um, conditional uses, grain elevators. >> I do find it ironic that the oldest
business in town that's been there since before we zoned is a conditional use. >> Oh, I see what you're saying. green elevators, green storage structures and feed mills provided the following requirements are met. The
maximum height may be ex uh be extended for the following associated structures and apparatuses. Grain leg uh distributor towers and spouting 150 ft. Grain storage structures and elevator buildings 100 ft. financial institutions with
drive-through facilities including automated kiosk, health and recreational clubs, multi-tenant buildings, uh provided that the uses are specified as permitted or conditional use in the B1 district on sales uh restaurants,
single family detached residential single family. >> There's four houses in B1 that have been there forever, but they reszoned it to B1. That would be on the block with the car wash and the hair salon. And that would
be um Pork Chop's house. >> Pork Chops. >> Pork Chops House. >> That's uh Allies to No. >> No. General's Old House.
>> All right. >> Yes. Allies is also a B1. That whole block is >> call them guys. >> Are you looking for any edits, additions? >> Yes, I am. Any uh for conditional uses
any changes? Got car dealerships in there. >> It should be because we didn't have a conditional use for the guy yet. >> Yeah. Where is it? >> That's a B2. >> Oh, >> that's B2. >> B1. >> This is just B1.
I don't have any. >> Are we going to add our cannabis businesses into the zoning districts that they're approved for? >> Excellent point. >> You could or did the or >> refer to uh the ordinance? >> Yeah, you could.
Yeah, you could ref Yeah, I suppose you could reference ordinance whatever it is to say as amended from time to time or whatever. >> Excellent point. >> Considering it's coming sooner than later.
Anything else? >> Um here I can't not for that but for seven we talked about making the maximum height across all zoning districts 42 ft.
7 C >> maximum height principle and accessory structure. Yes, you have mentioned that before. 35 ft to 42 ft. >> Mhm. >> Does that mean some other? >> It just makes it easier because it's universal across all zoning districts.
>> Okay. >> It really made it interesting in I2, C1, and uh B3 or B1 up here. All right, Mr. Chair, uh let's keep on
moving here unless uh Mr. Cash, what are you thinking? >> Um I can't think of anything off hand to add for conditional use. So I guess let's go with it. >> Okay, Mr. Chair, next on the list, B2 Highway
and Business Service, uh pages four and five. Permitted uses automobile repair, uh, minor clinic, garden center, health and recreational clubs, off sales, on sales, pharmacy excluding drive-through
facilities, places of worship, professional and business office and services, public buildings, public parks and playgrounds, public utility structures, restaurants, fast food, exclus including drive-through facilities. Restaurants standard
excluding drive-through facilities, retail shops and services permitted accessory uses, accessory structures, and private garages, fences, landscaping and decorative features, off- streetet loading, off-
street parking, signs, temporary buildings located for the purpose of construction on the premises for a period of not to exceed the time necessary for such construction. and then temporary outdoor sales.
Uh do we want to just focus on permitted uses here, Mr. Chair? Uh any comments uh or up changes from the uh commission here? >> Why are we excluding drive-thru facilities? That's a good point. Meaning remove
I just want to know why. I'm sure other people want to know why, too. Especially on a fast food restaurant. Restaurants, fast food excluding drive-thru facilities. Restaurants standard uh excluding drive-through facilities.
>> Pharmacies excluding drive-thru facilities. I'm fine with leaving it in if there's a valid reason for it. I'd just like to know what the reason is. >> Uh probably so through plan site review
we can dictate how much stacking there is. That makes sense though. Conditional uses animal hospital, automobile repair major, commercial car washes, convenience facility, daycare centers,
license, fast food restaurants with drive-thru, financial institutions with drive-thru, including automated kiosk, hotel and motel, multiple parcels, tenants, buildings, provided that the uses are specified and permitted conditional uses in the B2
district. Here's our open sales lot. Uh outdoor recreational areas, outdoor seating areas for accessory to be permitted to conditional uses in B2 district pharmacy with drive-thru.
Do we change this maximum height of principal and accessories >> there too to 42 >> from 35? >> I'll note that make the change there. We have any edits, ads, recommendations? If not, I think we move on.
>> All right. Do we want to continue the permitting? Do we want to continue the re the review here >> or do we want to table it till next meeting and then move on to the new business? I'm sorry. I had um multiple >> cash. Do you want to read your table to
rest? >> Table rest for today. >> What about you? >> Yeah. >> Table. >> We'll be here till tomorrow. All right. Do you need a motion for that? Sorry. All right. I'll take a motion to table.
>> Motion to table it. >> I'll make second. >> All right. >> I'm sorry that was Harding, correct? >> Yes. >> Mike, yes. >> All right. All All approved.
>> I all against three. >> All right. So, moving on to uh new business. Uh, consider approval of ordinance 20225-336,
an ordinance amending city code 153.077 off streetet parking and storage on residential property. All right. Uh, Mr. Chair, ordinance 2025 336, an ordinance amending city code 153.077 off streetet parking and storage on
residential property was reviewed prior to this agenda item under public hearing. the commission consider the should consider public comments received prior or at the meeting. Uh as I stated earlier, no public comments were received.
Um I read this earlier. I'm not going to read it again to save some time, but as you could see by the bullet points, these are the exact same bullet points from the public hearing. Uh as far as discussion uh items of of the importance of discussion include
recreational vehicles seasonal page one staff is recommending that all seasonal vehicles shall not be parked in the front yard. C vehicle limits staff is recommending one commercial vehicle shall be counted as two standard vehicles.
and E, general regulations, page five, staff is recommending the addition of driveway zoning permit to two permit. So, as far as opening up the discussion here tonight, Mr. Chair, um,
we need to talk about what is realistic, uh, what is enforceable and especially when it gets to offseason parking. So, what can be parked at at at a residential location? All
right. We we're recommending that nothing could be parked in the front yard. Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, that solves that problem. Agreed. >> But then based upon our our seasonal parking, what can be left on the side of
the garage on the parking pad? nothing or a certain type of recreational vehicle depending upon length. So that's the biggest question tonight of what is enforcable as you drive around town these days. This parking
effect is in the ordinance. This is in into effect right now, winter parking. So, we get to page four. Major recreational vehicles.
Uh, seasonal recreational vehicles prohibited during the on the off season. So, front yard, yes, permitted major recreational vehicles. So, that is seasonal. Uh sideyard
opposite garage. No. >> No. Sideyard garage side parking pad from back a curb. Yes. Side corner lot garage pad. Yes. Rear yard. No. Rear yard
frontage. So in this isn't it contradicting? I thought we'd said that nothing was allowed in the front yard, but this is saying that it is >> seasonally. Se Okay. Major recreational
seasonally. Yep. >> Is permitted. >> Side by sides are all season. And >> so would that be a fish house as well? >> On wheels. >> On wheels. Okay.
And that's the major, right? >> Yep. And then it goes to that's major and then minor commercial vehicles. Did you do minor rotational major and minor recreational vehicles? There's no seasonal parking for minor.
Well, I think there is. >> Oh, yes. Seasonal. Yes, there is correct. Minor recreational vehicles. That is correct, Mr. Ericson. Uh, that applies to minor recreational vehicles. Uh, front yard. Yes. And remember this is seasonal.
Um 10 ft. Sideyard opposite garage. No. Sideyard. Garage side parking pad. Yes. Side corner lot. Garage side parking pad from back of curb. Yes. And then rear yard. Yes. Uh 10 ft. And
then rear rear rear rear yard with frontage no axis. Yes. So right now the the seasonal this impacts uh minor recreational vehicles. This impacts uh major
recreational vehicles. You're looking at page four, right? where it says minor commercial vehicles or is that supposed to >> minor recreation involves major >> minor recreational vehicles is on page three. >> Anywhere where you see a uh parenthesis
with a S in it that that um applies to the um >> okay >> seasonal or offseason vehicles shall not be parked in the front yard. any recreation vehicles designed for use during either the one the warm weather season from April 1st through October
31st in a given year or two the cold weather season from November 1st through March 31st in a given year. Seasonal recre seasonal recreational vehicles shall be classified as shown below. And then we get into the definitions of
the we see the seasonal classifications. Motorized water boat or watercraft, boats, pontoons, and jet skis. Warm weather season, cold weather season, iceous without wheels. Uh year round lightweight off-road
vehicles, non-motorized uh personal watercrafts, canoes, kayaks, and paddle boats. That's warm season, cold weather, snowmobiles. year round lightweight side by side utility vehicles.
Warm weather season ice house ice houses with wheels and then uh year round. So when you see the ice house with wheels, that's year round. Uh warm weather, golf carts.
And then in the year round, uh, dirt bikes, motorcycles, warm weather season, and then all-terrain vehicles, ATVs yearround, motor homes, campers, RVs, uh, motor vehicles or trailers equipped with
living space and amen amenities found in a home. And then year round flat and enclosed utility trailers. Does anyone have any questions or comments regarding that? >> I just want to make sure that we're
clear. So when at this time point in time when you're driving around town and you're like, "Oh, is that a minor recreational vehicle? Is that a major recreational vehicle? Can that be parked here? Can it not be parked here?" >> They're both still out. >> They're both Are we making an exception for the
Snowbird that's for loading up 48 prior to departure? taking out their boat, hooking it up to the camper, going down to Texas for the winter. >> Um, I think in situations like that, the police department has has worked with
them. I think the the bigger picture is is >> leaving it there forever. >> Correct. >> Yeah. a couple that we end up making contact weeks whatever
[Music] >> because I know we have we had updated the the time frame too right to meet differentiate the warm and the cold season. So, yes, that was uh November 1st to March 31st.
>> That is correct. I think the bigger thing is is you know parking on a hard surface or not and then where are we okay and if so where with
seasonal items being parked like you brought up the question right now. Can the boat be on the side of your house? Say like we're looking at like a 18t aluminum craft offboard. >> Mhm. >> So that is a no. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Uh minor recreation major recreational
vehicle. Um >> do we want to allow that? Actually, that's the best question of the night. Do we want to allow that uh your 18T boat with the outboard on it? Uh, do we want to allow campers, motor
homes less than 24 ft be parked on a hard surface parking pad? Do we want campers longer than 24 ft >> if there's a parking pad there >> to be kept there year round?
Right now it's not >> that is correct that it applies to seasonal park seasonal parking. >> What do you guys think? >> I personally don't think that we should allow it. >> I don't think so either cuz it'll be an eyesore.
>> It collects other things in there too. >> They got it for the summer. Fine. Understood. But, uh, there's storage for it afterwards, >> right? >> Honestly, if it's a parking pit, it's
camper, they park it there, or if they have their boat wrapped and, you know, it's not just sitting there and never moving, you know, I don't see a problem with it. if it's on the side of their house or we to tell them they can't have their own
equipment on their yard. >> I mean, yeah, if it's a broke down car, it's not registered, it's got four flat tires, that's an issue. >> If it's a camper that's being used, you know, and it's not just sitting
there for 20 years. It's got to be registered. It's got to have tires on it. It's, you know, >> it's usable. >> Yes. But it's just like the same thing. If you have a vehicle that just sits in your driveway for six months, somebody's
going to say something eventually and they're going to want to know why your car is moving. I mean, in the winter time, I store my Corvette, but if I had a small camper, I'd love to be able to park it at my house, be able to take off whenever I decide I want to.
>> You know, I'm not taking my 18 foot boat out in the middle of December, but But if you didn't want to pay $80 a month for storage. >> Exactly. Why should I have to pay to store something when I have the property? >> And if I put a pad down, why wouldn't I
be able to use it? You know, if I'm going to spend the money to put a concrete pad down, I should be able to use that for for storage of my boat or my camper or whatever. And if it's licensed and it's not just
sitting there for 10 years on end, is it really my place to tell people they can't do that? And I don't think it is. There's also the river fisherman in the winter that go over directly. >> They use it year round.
>> How many complaints you get about boats in the air chasing? >> What's that? How many complaints about boats parked on the side? Do you get in the air? >> Yeah. >> There's none that are parked off season that you notice. Yeah.
>> And then as far as uh campers go >> any calls or complaints if they're parked on the street. Yes. Yeah, I would say just if they have a parking pad and you know it's there, let them use
it. Sounds like they are. >> Yeah. >> So, >> and and it's not causing a problem now. So, >> but I also don't think that we should rip it out of the ordinances. I kind of think that we it then will allow us to
enforce it too if it gets out of control. Like if >> I know that we've talked about this this before, too, having a baseline. >> Once it's gone, there's nothing to refer back to, >> right? said I personally think we leave it but
allow like you said right I there are people that do it and they do it without complaints so >> I agree with you Jeremy >> what it comes down to is some people have space for it some people don't have space for it end up
>> Yep. What about storage of offse items in other locations on the property >> backyard? I don't know if I'd allow that, but I'd allow him to do it on a parking pad. >> Where you don't see it, right?
>> Older part of town. I don't know if you get >> old town. If you go to Old Town, you can see everybody's yard. I didn't hear you. What was it? >> Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. You're like my lot. You can see my entire lot from the street. So,
>> cuz they always say, "Yeah, you can park stuff as long as nobody can see it." Well, I can't do that. and nobody on my block can cuz you can see our entire block from any spot on the on the streets. So, I mean, if you're going to do it where it's got to be out of sight,
I think it's got to be fair for everybody cuz what about people like us that have, you know, five buildings on a four corner where nothing can be hidden? I mean, I almost got blinded for having wood stacked behind my garage, even
though it was in a stackable, you know, a wood stack plate. I was yelled at about that and I was like, seriously, this is going to become a problem. >> Apparently, I didn't put it on the right side of the shed. So, you moved it.
>> Council member OPA, does the um the council have any uh direction here for the commit for the commission? >> RVs I'm okay with, but I really don't see the difference between that 16 ft
pullbehind camper and that 16T ice castle as far as keeping them outside year round. So, recreational vehicle minor any recreational vehicle not exceeding 24 ft
in length, including but not limit to class B motor homes, travel trailers, folding tent, camping, trailers, truck campers, boats, personal watercraft, and other similar recreational vehicles and trailers. meaning that would be permitted year round.
>> What do you think, Tom? >> I know people that buy ice castles for both uses. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> I've seen campers where they cut holes in the floor when ice fishing with five gallon buckets. I'm smart. I stay inside. It's cold.
>> So, you're recommending moving campers slash RVs to the year round. That your recommendation. >> My thought is >> most campers aren't being used because the water's going to freeze. >> Camper or whatever it is. Long story,
you already approved it on whatever side of the garage. >> I mean, you already dictated all these things. Now you're telling them, well, wait a minute. This is only a a half year thing. >> Seasonal. >> Yeah. >> And I tell you what, like when frost
happens, I can winterize the boat and I can put in my backyard in my grass. It's not going to sink or anything. But the reality is you got an old town, you got a new town. But if somebody's going to pour a pack and put money, make that investment, >> right,
>> buy the unit that they want to get. I don't think it's the city's business to sit there and say, "Oh, no." >> All right. sound like the chief had said that um there are those that have the pads, they have the space, they do that
right now. >> There's people that have applied to put, you know, pads next to their houses for their, you know, campers and then for some odd reason doesn't work out, right? I mean, there's a lot of interest
within the community do that. So that's interesting. So I was in my mind we were concentrating on minor recreational vehicles. Say like you have a 50 foot long um motor coach. >> Yeah. uh motor coach and you're you're
fortunate enough on your yard or on your property that you have a 50 foot long parking pad because you have a large yacht or large lot >> and your lot coverage is under the max of 45%.
Now where do we go with that? Does that the same theory apply to >> you? Yeah, those people don't like the lawn. >> I'm just saying that at least we we're talking about minor >> for an RV in your property the value of some of the houses.
>> It might be worth more than some of the houses. >> You got a 50ft RV, you're owning five or six lots. >> Well, the other thing is is I do know a guy that owns an RV and he parks on the street
and it affects his neighbors and But I mean there's no space >> both sides of the story. I mean I see the goods in it because yeah we're we're making a poropad but then can only use it six months out of the year or whatever it is. Um, but then I also see
that if if they have space for it, why not be able to use it all year? I don't know. >> It should just be like a vehicle. If it's registered, it's not broke down there. >> Yep. >> Mhm.
>> Make it first comes I think the main thing is is just the visual impact on your neighbor's property. >> I don't think most people don't care about that. You you do when you're going to sell your house, right? >> I was going to say in Oldtown,
everybody's got stuff parked everywhere. >> Sort of reminds me of like Cousin Eddie from with National Lampoons winter vacation, Christmas vacation. >> No one wants the code enforced in their neighborhood until they're selling, >> right?
So to the point of seasonal then I could just park my boat in my driveway and just say I'm going to go on the river someday. >> No, you couldn't park it in the front yard. >> Yep. >> It's got to be on the side of the house or at the back. But if we're not doing seasonal
>> true opens a different can of worms >> and then just all my plants fell through. >> But then you're still getting people are still doing it. I mean, my neighbor kitty corner for me was parking his boat
in his backyard year round, and that thing didn't move in five years. >> No one ever said a thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was always registered, >> but he never moved it. >> He hid it behind the bushes. Even though
coming down Birch, you could see it right in front of you. >> That just comes down to enforcement. Mhm. >> But nobody say anything cuz nobody cared. Mhm. No one cares until they get cited and then they're they know every violation in town.
>> Then they go looks >> happens every day. >> Doing it. Yeah. >> To me, it just seems like we're we're getting too nitpicky on certain things that we should allow people to have a little bit of leeway. I mean,
>> we're not Minnotonka. We're not Prior Lake. We're not. And I don't want it to be that. >> And it sounds like that we have an ordinance, but we've >> No, we're we're we're we're not. But I mean, people have sunk their life savings into their properties,
>> right? >> It doesn't matter where you're at. A life savings is a life savings. Doesn't matter if it's 10,000 bucks or 10 million bucks. >> But we're also telling people, okay, go ahead and build a parking pad. spend, you know, $30,000 putting in a parking
pad, but use it for a couple of months. And >> I don't stop. That that bugs me. >> You can still use it for other things. >> I'm not disagreeing with that. >> Well, technically, you can't use it for anything in the winter. It'd be worthless. >> Snowmobiles.
>> Snowmobile sitting outside your vehicles. >> Most of those snowmobiles cost as much as a new car anymore. Yeah, this is a difficult one. >> What do you think, Tim? >> So then every camper and every boat not
parked on a hard surface is a violation. I mean, that would make sense. >> Okay. >> I don't have either one, so it doesn't really affect me. All right, planning commission. Where do we want to go with this? I'd hate to
table this one. >> I would too. What do you think, Tim? >> Oh, man. So, we want to take the regular RVs, the big RVs,
make them year round. Is that what you want? >> I think we're looking for recommendations, right? Like >> Yeah. >> Do we want to do big RVs? Do we want to do minor? >> I I I can see it, but I know dang well
as soon as I make the recommendations, it'll bite me into short summons in the future. >> I know dang well. I'm thinking we leave it alone. And people already do it when they have the space, right? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I I mean, >> be a good neighbor, you know. I mean, >> I some of it, you know, >> that's where I'm trying to keep leaning towards and then it keeps things nice and neat during the winter as well. >> I don't know. So, you're fine with
leaving it the way it is? >> I am. >> I think so, too. All right. Next, uh let the amount of vehicles uh going to uh C page two. Uh C. Maximum
number of standard vehicles. Four. Uh two. Maximum number of recreational vehicles. Three. Uh three. One utility trailer should be counted as one recreational vehicle. Four. One commercial vehicle shall be counted as two standard vehicles. No.
Considering I or H1 already prohibits parking of major commercial vehicles and residential districts. Therefore, you're leaving minor commercial vehicles, which is your one- ton pickups, your vans, and you're
counting that as two, where grandma and grandpa have that one ton pickup to pull the cra down to Texas or Arizona, and that counts as one. That's not fair. I'd leave it as one. One commercial vehicle shall be
countered as one standard vehicle. Mhm. One recreational vehicle shall be counted as two recreational vehicles. >> One major rec recreation >> Yeah. I'm sorry. One major recreational
vehicle shall be counted as two recreational vehicles. >> Like the side by side with the back seat and maybe even another back seat. So it's like a four to six passenger vehicle. That's basically a car there. So, yeah, >> basically a car
>> or them big long golf carts, too. Little limousine type golf carts. >> One associated uh six one associated recreational vehicle not exceeding 24 ft in length holding any combination of recreational vehicles shall be counted as one recreational vehicle.
>> Question. I probably already went now. If it's parked on the property, this is there's four. What if they have two on the street? Is that not my count? >> I would not count. And then it would be regulated by the 48 hour.
>> Gotcha. >> Parking. >> Gotcha. All right. >> Four vehicles. recreational. All right. So, just the one change in that category and let's go to E gentlemen. Uh E page
five. Jeremy, you should remember this discussion here. Um, e page five. >> It starts on four and goes to page five. >> The general regulation
>> staff is recommending the new addition of the driveway zoning permit. Uh two permit a a zoning permit shall be required for all new parking pads and driveways. All right, that's something new. Right now, we do not uh process or driveway
permits are not in our permitting system. So I think the question being raised here is that okay you have to apply for a parking pad permit and go through the process and the review for that and
there's nothing you have to do for driveways. >> See you permit for driveway >> right now there is not a driveway there there is not a driveway zoning permit application. Gotcha.
But for a sight pad >> But for a sight pad there is why >> why is there a permit? >> No. Why? Why wasn't there one for >> uh this was talked about what a year and a half ago
>> and it was decided at that time to not require permits for driveways. >> And the reasoning everybody has a driveway. No other city requires for permit for a driveway. I just >> some do.
>> Uh, prior lake might um theirs is a runoff issue and stuff with the lakes, but most you can knock out all the cement and report you want. They don't care. And maybe it's a mute point now that the
driveway can be the width of the garage or 36 feet, whichever is less, >> right? >> But all we care about is that at the property line. And a lot of those reasons are just or the main reason is like like you just said, Tim, the uh
runoff and storm water. >> Yeah. Yeah, if we don't require for the driveway, you don't need to do a pad for the backyard. I don't know why we need it for the side pad. So, so then what's going to happen is is
people are going to pour it right to the property line and then say, "Oh, I didn't know." >> And then whatever's coming off the roof on that parking pad is going to the to the property line onto your property.
cuz we did reclaire your screening >> and we had the screening removed. Yeah, I remember that. >> So, the biggest question is is that do we want to get involved in the new parking or a driveway um permit?
>> Do you guys want to get involved in it is the question. You guys are the ones that going to be enforcing it. >> Are you talking for new driveways too or >> replacement? >> Mhm. >> Um I mean if the city has no issue with it.
>> So if somebody comes in for a seal coat, you're going to make them get a new permit. >> Plus if they replace it seal coat mill and overlay on their own driveway. Seal coat. No, but a mill overlay. Yes.
>> Well, a mill overlay would just be replacing what's existing. >> Exactly. >> Basically, it's just a way that >> ones that don't meet the code are caught. So, it's not an after the fact thing. But now, oh, you said because now the
new code for width is 36 or the driveway >> or the garage, >> the width of the garage or 36 ft, whichever is less >> less. So, it's a twocar garage. So, what if they were high bigger before
and nobody ever caught them? There's driveways all over town that >> Yeah. >> I mean, some be making a lot of friends. >> Making a lot of friends and forcing it. Yeah. >> Well, that's why it's easier to deal
with it >> right >> up front. >> I see your point. Yeah. >> Than them spending and having to saw cut thousands of dollars of concrete. I suppose if that's your guys's recommendation to to have the permit.
>> I think we're just looking for consistency. >> Exactly. We were just bringing it forward because it was a topic from last year. You know, like I said, permit for a parking pad, but not a driveway. >> And >> well, yeah. And he said, >> and we don't charge for a parking pad
permit. It's really just so that it can get reviewed and it's done properly, not having to go after the fact. >> So there's no cost associated then. >> Yeah. We don't charge a per we don't charge a fee. >> I think then we do a driveway too then.
That makes sense. >> Yeah, you're not charging for it. You add it. >> All right. >> I don't pour cement, so I don't. >> But yeah, I >> No, but your brother-in-law does.
>> Oh, I was going to say there's a >> that'll put her through. >> But no. Um, yeah, I suppose I can see your point if you want to. get ahead of it
>> and that's the only reason. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. I'm okay with it, Jeremy. >> Yep. I'm good. >> Mike, >> as long as there's no fee, I'm okay with it. >> All right. >> All right. Uh any other changes here or
any other updates or recommendations before we package this up and um make a motion to move it to the November 2020 or November 24, 2025 city council meeting. >> I just had a question on H3 contracting
and excavating equipment. All contracting and excavating equipment located on residential lots or partials for over 48 consecutive hours shall be stored inside of an accessory building or garage. Is that excluding
construction projects? >> Excluding construction projects. >> Yes. >> Yeah, I think that's realistic. >> Yeah, >> that's the only question I had. You don't want to put up a tent or a building, drive it in there and then
come out. >> So you're saying to add on three except for building projects >> might make sense because sometimes the contractors drop them off on the weekend and then start work on Monday
>> or or active permits or somewhere else. Good. >> Uh, council member, what's your recommendation here? >> Ad verbiage for excluding active construction sites. >> Excluding active construction sites.
Excluding active >> number three construction sites. Okay, >> Mr. Chair, are we ready to make a a motion here? >> Yeah.
>> I'll entertain a motion to uh move this to city council. >> Public hearing. >> Motion. Motion by Mike. >> Second. >> Second by Tim. All in favor? >> I.
>> All opposed. Done. Carries 300. All right. Moving on. All right, gentlemen. Let's wrap this night up. Uh background ordinance 2025 3337 an ordinance adopting rules and regulations pertaining the wetland buffer was reviewed prior to this agenda item under
public hearing. The commission should consider public comments received prior or at the meeting staff and the city engineers recommending the wetland buffer ordinance below. Um the LA I guess the the last thing
from our previous meeting uh the thing that we discussed was soils must be decompacted to the depth of 18 in and organic matter must be incorporated into soils before seeding or planting. I did reach out to our city engineer because
the comments that were made from that meeting were that okay why does it have to be so deep? How come it's not 3 to 6 in or 3 in deep? So the reason being to answer your question is is that the root zone for native grasses grow deeper and
that's why the depth is that that's why this initial draft was 18 in deep. Uh did our engineer say hey um you know we there's a little bit of wiggle room here. Uh they they're comfortable with 12 in deep but anything underneath 12 in
anything underneath 12 in they are not comfortable with. And like I said, the reason being is that it's a root zone for native grasses grow deeper. That's just for the area they disturbed or the entire area
for the entire area. >> So when they do CRP, they go out there and they barely work it up and then they plant native grasses and they don't have problems. In fact, they know fill it in sometimes
even. >> Um, what's the recommendation then? >> I really don't like disturbing a buffer strip that much because the whole point of the buffer strip is to prevent the top soil from eroding into the wetland
and filling in the wetland. We could reach out to the county and ask them for advice on that one. Soil and water. >> So, we're not allowing anything to be constructed in the wetland buffer. >> The buffer, correct? >> Yep. >> So then basically the only time that this is going to matter is when the
development's constructed. >> It's just the point of the buffer is to prevent cop soil from eroding into the wetland. So, we'd either need to silk screen all the way around that area until it's completely grown in and then rip up the silk screen
or barely work it up. >> 18 in. Yeah, pretty deep. >> Yeah, that's how you going to work it up. 18 inches. It >> says ripper. You get a ripper down in that wet area.
Do we even need to have D1 in there? This is a recommendation from the, like I said, the city engineer. >> City engineer and their team at Ba make for seating, you know, I mean, it's going to be the
homeowner. He's going to be looking at it. He's going to want it to look nice. Um, or developer, I should say, too. You know, I don't know. is the city you're going to I'm going to go out there and make sure what the rule
of make sure it's 18 inches that you're going to deal with or it's been dug up um probably just at the time of the development that would >> yeah 18 in I don't know I don't know if it's that
big of a deal but if the engineer says it's he must have some more knowledge than than we have and stuff. So, I'd say if that's his recommendation, stay with it. >> Agreed. >> How about you, Mike?
>> I'd say drop it at least to 12 in. I mean, 18's pretty deep. Those roots are going to go deeper than that if they want to. I mean, >> well, you said you would be okay with 12. >> Uh, comfortable with 12 in. They go to 12
>> cuz I mean honestly that's it's going to grow. >> That's just the way it works. >> They go down 5 ft or more until >> long before we were involved and it'll keep growing after we're gone.
>> All right, we're almost at 9:00 p.m. >> Um so what's the recommendation here? Uh planning commission uh change 18 in to 12 in. All right. Any other questions or comments uh regarding uh ordinance 2025 3337 an ordinance
adopting rules and regulations pertaining to wetland buffer for city council approval at the November 24th, 2025 meeting. >> Mr. Chair, looking for a motion here. I'll entertain a motion to uh take this to this is going to the city council,
right? Recommendation >> next Monday. >> Motion. >> All right. Second by Mike. >> Second by Tim. >> All approve. All approved. >> I I none opposed. >> All right, Mr. Chair. Uh under other business, I appreciate everybody uh on
this committee always getting back to me as soon as possible. Uh make sure this is on your calendars. This is very very important. Um, the special planning and zoning commission meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, November 25th, 2025 at 7:00
p.m. Not 6:45 p.m., but 7:00 p.m. I sent meeting invites to everybody here. Uh, this is for the preliminary and final uh plat uh review and site plan review for the Harvest Pond Apartments. Um, for the
Harvest P or Harvest Ponds apartments. Gotcha. >> As far as any other updates at this time, I do not have any. Um, Mr. Chair, what about an adjournment to close this meeting? >> I'm starving. So, yes. >> So, Harding
>> second by Tim. >> Yep. >> It's been all night. >> Anybody see a pattern going on here? All >> righty. >> Thank you guys. Good job. I am starving.