He's probably sleeping in it. Ready? All right. Good evening everyone. We will start our meeting of planning and zoning um October 20th, 2025. And uh we will start with the pledge of
allegiance. I >> pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Okay, we'll take roll call. Jeremy Brainard absent. Joe Kadata here. Mike Harding >> here. >> Tim Kesh. >> Yep. >> Mike Conu >> here. >> Okay. And James Vape is non- voting
member. Okay. So, uh, take a look at the agenda. Did everybody take a look at it? Anything you want to change or update or uh add otherwise we need a motion to approve
the agenda. >> Motion to approve. >> We have a motion by Mike Harding and a second by Mike Conu. >> All in favor? >> I opposed. Good to go. Approval of the minutes. Everybody looked at the minutes from
last meeting and uh other than any kind of a spelling error. Did it look good? >> If it looked good, we'd need a motion to accept it. >> I'll make a motion. >> We have a motion by Tim Kesh. >> I'll second.
>> Second by Mike Harding. All in favor? >> I >> I. All opposed? Motion carries. All right. Public hearings. We're going to open the public hearing for ordinance 2025-334, an ordinance amending city code 153.078,
off streetet parking, loading, and access. >> Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. Good evening. Planning and zoning commission. Uh, at the September 15, 2025 meeting, the commission approved staff to schedule a public hearing for ordinance 2025334,
an ordinance amending city code 153.0. 078 off streetet loading and access staff issued the mandatory 10-day public hearing notification which was advertised in the lawn sale news review commencing October 7th 2025.
Uh no public comments have have uh been received here and I just want to make that confirm and uh clarify with the commission tonight. Uh the summary of updates, if you go to the very last page of the uh ordinance,
uh it's I believe it's page 12, the summary of updates include the removal of B and C from K additional off streetet loading requirements. So uh we're striking and uh proposing to
remove B any commercial industrial off streetet spaces shall be located at least 20 ft or I'm sorry Mr. Say 100 ft 100 ft from um the residential. Okay.
Located at least 100 ft from the residential is district. C all loading spaces shall be located in side or rear yard. >> So uh Mr. Chair, um it's in your report.
>> Okay. If anyone would like to comment, please step up. and uh limit your comment to two minutes. We would like your name and address before you speak.
We have no one here. So, um I would entertain a motion to close the meeting, the public hearing. I mean, the public hearing. >> Motion to close it. >> Motion by Mike Anu. >> Second. >> Second by Mike Harding. All in favor? I >> I.
>> All opposed. Motion carries. Presentation of citizen petitions and comments. We have none. So we'll move on to approval of the consent agenda. We have none. Correct. Anything? All right. Old
business. Consider approval of ordinance 2025 334, an ordinance amending city code off streetet parking, loading, and access. >> Uh thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the commission. Uh the public hearing for ordinance uh 2025334, an ordinance
amending city code 153.078 off street um loading and access was reviewed prior to this agenda item under public hearing. The commission should consider public comments received prior to or at the meeting. Uh as I stated
earlier um the the two proposed changes are on the page 12 the final page of the uh document and that is striking B and C from K additional off- streetet loading requirements. B any commercial industrial off- streetet spaces shall be
located at least 100 ft away 100 ft from residential district. And then C, all loading space, all loading spaces shall be located in a side or rear yard. Uh, Mr. Chair, I'm going to put this in your court again.
>> Okay. Does anybody have anything to add? Any comments? If there are no questions, no comments. Once again, we'll entertain a motion to approve it. >> I'll make that motion. >> We have a motion by Tim Kesh.
>> I'll second. Second by Mike Harding. All in favor? >> I >> I. All opposed. Motion carries. >> Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. So, the next step for um ordinance 2025 3334 amending
city code uh off street uh uh loading and access for city council or will be going to the October 30th, 2025 city council meeting. >> Okay. All right. B. Under old business, consider approval of recommended changes
to city code 15340, zoning districts. HB-1, Limited Business, I B-2, Highway and Business Service. J B 3, Central Businesses or Business, K1-I1,
Light Industrial. L I-2 medium industrial zero I original industrial district and PCI commercial industrial district Corey.
>> All right. Thank you Mr. Chair. So the uh planning commission has uh spent a great deal and some thorough and thorough review on the design standards uh for the commercial uh industrial and commercial districts. And I just want to make sure I have all my P's and Q's
organized here and make sure I've captured all of the recommended changes. So in your packet here, we have each of the zoning districts uh redline version. And I just want to make sure with this final review of our recommendations that
um we are all on the same uh page and then all the updates have been made. So we were just starting off with our priority was the B2 uh and as you stated uh Mr. Chair B2 highway and business service. So we're looking at the changes
there in the red highlights and uh permitting galvanized steel as a building accent feature. Mhm. >> Um, next on the list, updated exterior trash enclosure language to read, all
exterior trash enclosures used for garbage and or recycling shall be stored in an enclosure that is 90% opaque. The height of these structures shall not exceed that of the principal structure.
Uh B or I'm sorry, the last one of the changes here. Removal of light directed upward is prohibited. Externally lit signs, display building uh and aesthetic lighting must be lit from the top and shine downwards. Remember, we're
removing that language, >> right? >> So I I think we can micromanage this a little bit. Uh Mr. Chair, do we have any additional changes? And have all the recommend changes been captured to the B2 highway?
>> Anyone do want to do anything different, add anything different, reward anything to keep everything consistent across the districts. We have a height variance of 35 to 42 feet. Can we just make everything 42 feet to make it consistent across all districts for maximum
structure height? maximum structure height. Okay. Um what would that affect? >> The bees would go up 7 ft. The I's would go up 2 feet and the C's would stay.
>> Mhm. >> And we have a ladder truck that reaches 25 ft higher than the previous ladder truck. So the fire department wouldn't have a problem. >> They wouldn't have a problem. Okay. >> Where was your elevator? >> 60 ft. And they were playing around up there. So they can go up 60, no problem.
>> And that really looked pretty at night. >> Anybody have a comment on that? >> No, that makes sense to me. >> No problem. >> All right, we would need a motion. >> Motion yet. This just go through everything and >> Okay. >> All the zoning districts. >> All right.
>> All right. Uh, next bullet point on the list. I2 medium industrial uh the addition of stuckle to all exterior wall surfaces directly facing a public street reduce the requirement that 65% of the front of a metal of metal buildings must
be masonary veneer glass galvanized for accent or other approved material to 50% allowing more flexibility while maintaining aesthetic standards. Um and then of course uh being
consistent updated uh exterior trash enclosure language. All exterior trash enclosures you closures used for garbage and or recycling shall be stored in an enclosure that is 90% opaque and the height of these structures shall not exceed that of a principal structure.
And I do want to make a special note here. Um during our review in the I2 uh we did note that as far as uh permit or the removal of this distillation distillation process from prohibited uses.
>> Okay. >> So Mr. Chair uh and commission uh feedback comment on the I2. Did we capture all the changes? And council member I'm adding maximum structure height of 42 feet. Correct. Anybody else have
anything that >> jumps out at? >> No. >> Okay. >> This one. >> Anything over here? No. >> Yes. >> No issue with that.
>> Sound good? >> All right. >> Yeah. >> Sounds good. Okay. >> All right. We're on the second page of the staff report uh in the commercial industrial district. Uh, removal of metal sighting panels are prohibited on all exterior wall
surfaces. Removal of metal sighting panels are prohibited on all ex exterior wall surfaces. Uh, allow buildings to incorporate up to 75% prefinished metal siding on exterior
walls. It was previously 25% uh for building over buildings over 10,000 square ft. Include exception for garden centers and green houses to the requirement that all
buildings have permanent hard surface floors. Update and then of course repeat again. Update exterior trash enclosure language. All exterior trash enclosure enclosures used for garbage and or recycled shall be stored in an enclosure
that is 90% opaque and the height of these structures shall not exceed that of the principal structure. Mr. >> Chair, >> sounds good to everybody. >> Yep. >> Add removal of the prohibited
distillation processes. >> Okay. >> All right. We're all in favor. Looks good. Okay. >> Y >> uh next bullet B1 limited business and uh uh commissioners, you do have a
an official zoning map in front of you also for your reference. >> Just for your reference. All right. Um B1 limit to business addition of stucco to all exterior wall surfaces directly facing a public street.
Um updated uh trash enclosure language. All uh exterior trash enclosures used for garbage and or recycle shall be stored in an enclosure that is 90% opaque. Uh the height of these structures shall not exceed that of the principal structure. And uh mostly most
most importantly removal of light directed upward is prohibited. External lit signs, display building and aesthetic lighting must be lit from the top and shine downward. Uh Mr. Chair, did I get all of the B1 or updates here?
>> I think you did. And um anybody see any conflict with that? Like everything we talked about? >> Yeah, sounds like it. So, I guess we're good with that. >> Yeah, I >> think we use it in the other ones.
>> Uh, moving forward, B3 central business. Our recommended changes included addition of stucco to all exterior walls surfaced directly facing a public street. updated exterior trash enclosure language to uh to reflect all exterior
trash enclosures used for garbage and recycling shall be stored in an enclosure that is 90% opaque. The height of these structures shall not exceed that of the principal structure. >> Uh Mr. Chair, >> yep. Do we have anything to add to that?
Kind of what we talked about. >> Okay. A lot of these things change as as new materials come out. All right. What? >> Um, so this B3 is going to be our new apartment buildings. Is that am I reading that right?
>> Actually longer B3. >> Okay. So >> that's a PUB now. >> Goes away. >> That that is officially passed. >> Okay. >> But good question. >> Mhm. >> Uh, light industrial. Oh, I'm sorry, Mr.
Chair. We good wrapping up B3? >> I think so. That was the only question out there. Correct. >> Yep. Everybody's all right. >> We're good. >> All right. Uh I one light industrial addition of Stuckco to all exterior wall surfaces directly facing a public street. Uh reduction of masonary
requirement from 65 to 50% and addition of galvanized for an accent. Uh removal of language that showed preference for masonary buildings. And then a note uh removal of dist distillation go
>> distillation. I cannot pronounce this one. Distillation process from prohibited uses. >> It's easy for you to say. Yeah. Okay. >> Once again, we're all right? >> Yep. >> Everybody agrees? Okay.
>> Do we have any? >> Doesn't look like it. >> I know. But it's still in our city code. City still there. Okay. >> And then the original industrial district, uh, we concluded that there
was no changes there, >> right? Okay. Anybody think of a change they would like to bring up or are we okay with it? >> I've got no changes. >> Yeah, I'm good.
>> We're good. Good to go. Okay. Great. Okay. >> So, Mr. Chair, I think I I would here's the next next uh where we're going with this next. I did get some I got some direction today um that we our next
stage at our next meeting. We're going to move into reviewing permitted and conditional uses in each of these zoning districts. >> So, that is our next stage here. Let's get an approval tonight that we approve our recommended changes for the uh for
the commercial industrial design standards. At least we can go on record uh on this date or on this night that we uh we're recommending the approval or the updates. >> So, Mr. Chair, >> so we need somebody to do we need a
motion for that to >> Yes, sir. >> Yes, sir. We need a motion to approve all the changes that were made. >> Motion. >> Motion by Mike Harding. >> Second. Second by Mike Kanu. All in favor? >> I >> I opposed. Motion carries.
>> And Mr. Chair, this is a we're going to package this all together uh once we go through the permitted uses, conditional uses. Uh we will then um combine the public hearing for each of these um uh
zoning districts. That sounds good that we don't have all the people making two or three trips here that are here tonight. >> So, we can uh >> All right. So, we would want to uh review and consider approval to schedule a public hearing on November 17th.
You're not there yet. Okay. >> Okay. >> Let me get caught up in wants to get on for the wild game. >> No. All right. Now, I'm ready. Mr. Chair, go right ahead. >> Okay. Review and consider approval to schedule a public hearing on November
17th, 2025 at 6:45 p.m. or shortly after for ordinance 2025 336, an ordinance amending city code 153077, off streetet parking and storage on residential property. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
>> Uh I I I informed the uh commission that I've really wanted to get this one done this year. Uh this is a followup from uh 20 uh 2024 work and uh staff have been working together uh city administrator, the
police chief and at this point I we're very close or we're at that pivotal point where we can move forward to to uh schedule the public hearing. But I do want to make sure that you're referencing the red draft version uh in
the packet. [Music] And we're going to start with uh page one. So um page one, first thing on the red uh red line version is updated recreational
vehicle seasonal to include offseason vehicles shall not be parked in the front yard area. Uh we had to further define um this in our recreational seasonal
Um, first pay recreation vehicle seasonal. And Chief, do you have any comments on that or are you good with that that that update? >> You have a typo. >> All right.
>> In your red line. >> Is that done with any or whatever it was before? I saw that earlier. >> Office. Oh, thank you. All right. Duly noted and that that will be changed. >> Okay.
>> All right. Moving on to the second page here. Uh the deletion of hunting waterfall boats from seasonal classification of recreational vehicles and associated trailers. >> Uh change low and high power golf carts
to just golf carts. >> Right. Okay. All right, >> the simplification of standard vehicle weight in the definition and I wanted to swing back uh to the commission with the recommended uh
utility trailer. So the staff and the reviewed this again and we did clarify that the update of the utility trailer definition from not to exceed 16 ft to 14 ft. Remember there was some confusion in my packet.
>> Either it was 12 or 14, >> right? >> Okay. >> Update standard vehicles uh side corner lot garage side uh pad set back from back of curb set back to 5T currently 10
ft. Update standard vehicles. Rear yard is set back to 5T. Update uh utility trailers from front yard set back to 5T. Update utility trailer side corner lock
garage side pad setback from back of curb. Uh update minor recreational vehicle side corner lock garage side pad set back u of curb. Update major recreational vehicle side corner lock
garage side pad set back from back of curb. Update minor commercial vehicles side corner lock garage side pad set back curb. Incorporate alley
and or side corner lot into uh number seven setback measurement. Update surface only uh to concrete or asphalt for driveways and parking areas. Update C. Uh garage side parking pads
may be constructed up to 14 ft wide. Uh driveway access from single family detached dwelling should shall not exceed the width of the garage or the property line or maximum of 36 ft whichever is less.
Update uh vehicle shelters to not permitted. >> Make that very clear. >> Yep. Good. Removal and uh deletion of screening requirements. Update maintenance uh content to non-p
parking areas. Removal of D exception for non-conforming status. We're now towards the very very end of the red line version. Removal of four other unique situations for special permits,
removal of five issuance of special permit and removal of six conditions of special permit. And then the last bullet point um in this category removal of seven termin termination of special permit.
So Mr. chair before going on to the uh the items of importance or the topics of importance besides the spelling error on the very first one. Is there anything else that um should be corrected here?
>> You guys all look it over, read it. >> Yeah. >> Looks good. Looks bad. Needs correction. Opinions? >> No. >> Reasonable. We went over it before, so okay, we're good with that.
>> All right, Mr. Chair. So, staff is requesting the commission to discuss the items items of importance that were identified at the September 15, 2025 meeting. Uh, one of the big topics was clarification of where vehicles can be
parked during offseason parking. We did address that on the very first page. Offseason vehicles shall not be parked in the front yard area. Uh the next bullet point, maximum number of vehicles then that can be parked on
the residential property. Right now the max is four, right? >> And the discussion where we went with this was what about the old part of town? So, we do need to open this up for a
discussion. I know that the chief and the city administrator and I were talking about this. We're still recommending it to be at four. >> Mhm. >> But I know that there was a request to increase that number.
>> I I still think four is plenty, but what do you guys feel? >> Is that including in the garage? >> Mhm. This is outside the garage. >> Yeah, that should be plenty, I think. >> Well, I was in the old part of town, the
older part of town today to check out uh an alleyway that a complaint came in and I believe there was four cars pack parked back there. >> Mhm. >> Plus some um possible blight issues also.
>> The alleyways are kind of the thing of the past. They're not, you know, they're kind of going away. >> But I understand better with the comment that was made. What about the older part of >> Yeah. >> older part of town? >> We don't have garages in the older part of town.
>> If we do, they are storage sheds. >> Yeah. >> Mine's more or less a storage shed. >> I can get a really small car in my one car garage. >> It's uh But where do you draw the line? I mean, you can't just open it up. And I I think
you got to have something to fall back on. I think four is still a pretty good number. >> Now, now they're considered ATVs or UTVs, or is it just >> just cars? >> Just cars. >> It wasn't pickups.
>> The number in question, for the most part, it was the fact that some of these families have three kids with the three or four years of each other and they're all driving at the same time and they all have cars and mom has a car and dad has a car. So, you got five vehicles
right there. And then if dad would happen to have a company vehicle, you got six vehicles. >> But yeah, they don't have garages like the the newer editions do, but um they also don't have as big a lot. They don't have as big a driveway. Where are you
going to put them? Well, let's be honest. If they have more than four vehicles, what can you do to them? Give them a ticket. >> That ain't going to do nothing. >> They'd have to park them out on the street. >> Um, I'll be honest with you. I'm do
dealing with this on a house in a different town. They got five car, six cars outside and stuff. I've called the police many of times and stuff. He says he just gives him a ticket. He pays it. He don't He says, "We can't take the cars out of there." He says we can't pull them out. Like so what's the point
of even having a ordinance? So and I'm not saying our town. I'm saying it's a different town. >> At some point of time there any council can impose off street parking between this month and this month >> and then we're going to go back
a lot of residents pretty ticked off getting the ticket following the ordinance not following the ordinance. So I cash2. >> But like I've said before is when you've got these ordinances, at least you have something to fall back on. You've got
some, you know, if you've got a they got seven or eight vehicles and you got the neighbors complaining and you what do you do about it if you don't have an ordinance limiting how many you can have. Yeah. Uh unless somebody complains, I can't see that the police department's going to go looking and and uh ticketing them for having too many
vehicles there. But if you don't have a any kind of a limit, sky's is the limit. And what do you do? >> You fall back above light rule in that case. >> Well, >> yeah. >> Yeah. I don't know if it works with cars though. Does it? >> And you can only park on you can only
park the vehicles on concrete or asphalt. So, it's not like they can park them in their yard. >> Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't I wouldn't want to arbitrarily go out of way just to just just to to ser them to continue just give tickets and give tickets and give tickets. >> No, that that doesn't make any sense,
but um >> Hey, Chief, is there an issue with this at this time? >> No, I mean a complaint. We do see it.
We do see it will doesn't appear for several months and it's not violation for five months
which is the number of >> but you're talking about people complained about or >> Yeah, basically just >> you know that
>> right now we start see >> Yeah. It gets a little bit steep. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What we see is all these cars parked out
and their garages are full. >> Yep. Just what I was going to say >> stuff. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, just because the garage and I here again, we're talking about people that have a garage. Just because you're full of toys doesn't mean you
just park everything out on the street after that. >> I wish mine was filled with toys. Mine's filled with projects. I got one more in there. Cabinets and refrigerator and >> Yeah. >> Well, whatever you guys think.
>> I don't know. I mean, to me, we're already limiting them to where they can park on the property, which is either going to be black top or concrete. >> Correct. So, if they can't park on the grass, I mean, unless your driveway is 40t wide, you're not going to get more than probably four or five vehicles on
there anyway, >> right? >> I mean, unless they're all Mini Coopers, and you can probably get 12. >> Good analogy. All right. >> But, I mean, that's the way I look at it. It's you aren't going to be parking 10 cars in a in a standard driveway,
especially not around here. >> No. Right. So, I mean, >> but then you get the ones that uh you know, so you're having a family get together and and you've got no place for anybody to park because they've got their driveway full and they've got parked cars parked down the street
>> on a regular basis. >> My neighbors do it and I have no problems with it when they want to have. >> Yeah. >> Whereas a typical you should be able to get two to four vehicles in your driveway. >> I can get four in mine and I got a pretty good size driveway.
>> Yeah. Yeah, >> but >> and typically if you don't have all the toys or the projects in the garage, you can put one or two in the garage typically. >> So, I don't know why there's I mean I don't even know why there's a limit on it. If they can only park in certain spots on the property, does it really matter?
>> Well, I think it does because you need something to fall back on, >> you know. >> But we have something to fall back on. You can't park them in the grass. >> Yeah. >> No, you can't. >> You can't park it out on the street for long periods of time either because >> Yeah. The material is giving you your natural limit. Yeah, the material is
giving you your on prop on premise limit. So, >> well, >> once it becomes street >> and it gives you the at least a little bit of variable so it's not screwing over the family that's got like >> Exactly. >> Dad with four kids and a company car. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's up to you guys.
>> I don't know. To me, I'd just strike the number. I mean, just get rid of it because we're already limiting them to where they can park. So, that's going to limit you how many vehicles you can have on there. And I don't know anybody in town that's going to build a 40 foot wide driveway.
>> Tim, what do you think? You're thinking >> Well, I'm kind of leaning towards zero way. I figure four cars on the outside, that's enough. >> Yeah. >> Um I'm dealing with it, you said. >> What's that? >> And you're dealing with it right now, >> I'm dealing with it and stuff. Um you
know, this is a a car with four flat tires there, but there's they can't do nothing about it. and give him a ticket for 50 bucks and he pays it and >> but I mean that goes into more though at that point. >> So, uh and it does affect your neighbors values, you know. I mean, you have
somebody come to look at the house and they see this >> thing here, you know, >> but that's horrible. What if six rolls in the driveway? >> Well, if there six Rolls-Royces, I don't think they'd be outside. >> But actually, that is a really good point. you know, they could be sitting
there to be protected. But, you know, nine times out of 10, it's the old junkers, the old, >> you know, the good ones are in the in the garage. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> if it's worth anything, they'll take care of it. >> Yeah. So,
>> protect it. >> I'm more towards leaning towards the four. I think four outside is a pretty healthy number. >> Yeah. I do two cuz that gives you two to two to three more inside if you're using your garage. >> So that's a total of seven already.
>> This was more directed towards Oldtown where nobody really has a three or four stone garage though in Oldtown. >> In Oldtown you don't. That's the exception. But they still, like I said, they don't have that wide a lot either, >> right? So that's why I said by the driveway you do,
>> but not all of them. >> I know there's some 25s in town. So, >> plus they're limited to concrete and asphalt anyhow. >> Yeah. >> You know, they're not going to have >> a 40 foot wide driveway at that point. >> No. >> So, the the I think the material is
limiting them to where they where they can park and how many they can get on there. So, >> I don't see a point in putting a number on there when we've already limited them twice. Once you got blight, if they have the car sitting there with four flat tires and an expired registration,
you're going to get a ticket. >> Good thing you didn't drive by my house about a year ago. Renew my registration for two weeks. >> So, is that our proposed change tonight? I I feel like we're split here as far as >> I stick with four, but
>> I would say just get rid of the number. We don't need a motion on that, correct? >> No. Just remember this is going to the public hearing. I just want to make sure that we have our our updated version that's going to be uh >> posted in the paper or ran in the paper and posted on our website. So, we got to make a decision here where we're going
to go with this. My thinking with that is you kind of got to always think of the neighbors and the neighborhood. And if it's going to depreciate their property value or it's going to look messy, that doesn't help anything. >> But if you're only limiting them to four
vehicles, then you might as well get rid of the other parts. >> Four plus whatever they can put in their garage. If it's a onecar garage, you got five, >> right? But I mean, we're not we're not even carrying what's in their garage. We only care what's outside. So big. >> That's up to them. Yeah.
>> So, it's we're saying you you can't have ice cream, but you know, you also can't have ice cream. >> The tricky part is is with the with the uh cuz I get what both sides are saying, but with the four cars, then if you get somebody with five cars and yeah, we can only, you know, you have the option of
then Jason and guys giving the ticket constantly and then there's the intent of the law is that somebody pushes that and like, oh, nope, now there's a fifth car outside and then you get abuse of that. Uh, and that's not the intent of that rule. The intent is to keep down the number of wrecks in in the front of
the in the front of the building. >> And my thinking is is just to keep it so that the police have something and the city and the neighbors to fall back on. Ordinance says you can only have four vehicles, you know, yeah, you're not you just stated you've got a couple vehicles extra on the street. Nobody's going to
say anything as long as the neighbors don't complain. Right. >> If somebody complains, if it's if it's no limit, >> I have a pretty good size driveway. Jimmy can attest to that. Mine's pretty wide and I can only get four vehicles in there. >> Yeah.
>> And one's a small one's a Mustang, one's a Corvette, and one's my work vehicle. >> Yeah, it's you're not going to get five cars on there. >> No. But most new developments, you know, they're threecar garage. They can get four easily on the driveway or they
should be able to. But um that's my opinion. >> This this let's this let's get a decision here. Yep. >> Recommendation. So where do we stand here? >> We can pick it apart more. Uh >> I still think there's got to be at least
a limit. That's my opinion. I don't I don't go with the no limit. >> The area is the limit. >> Yeah. Well, but the street is the street. I mean, we have a 50-50 split right now, too. But for the sake of argument, though, keeping keeping it going, I mean, this
>> it can be well, I mean, it could be brought up at public hearing, too. If somebody wants to talk about that with the with the material, >> it all depends on what side of this you're on. Yeah. >> If you're looking at the four cars, you know, >> then you're not so happy. But if you have the four cars, then you're okay
with that. It all depends on what side. >> But if you're if you're the neighbor and you're looking at >> Yeah. five, six cars there and it's a mess. >> That's a different >> Well, if your neighbors spending that much time looking at your driveway, they're probably everything in your
yard. >> I don't I don't agree with that. >> And, you know, let's say it's, you know, husband and wife and maybe three kids and they all got licenses, >> you know, they're fine, but hopefully some are in the garage, right? You know, I mean, so >> maybe this or if we stick with four,
that'll force people to clean their garage up. >> Yep. >> Right. I don't know. There's no reason you can't get at least one or two in a threec car garage or shouldn't be able to, but don't say >> I think. >> All right. Well, you guys got to decide
something. >> I'll flip. We'll we'll I understand both sides, but we'll go I'll say four. >> I'll say four. >> All right. >> All right. Uh counting commercial vehicles as two standard vehicles. enforcement in older neighborhoods where
garage space is limited. >> And I believe that were we going with this counting a commercial vehicle as one vehicle? >> Yeah, because you already uh prohibit the major commercial vehicles from parking on the street anyway. So you're
basically talking about one ton pickup trucks at that point in commercial vehicles and that update is one standard vehicle. >> That is correct. All right, Mr. Chair. Um, >> okay. >> These are all the proposed changes. I would like to move forward and schedule
the public hearing um at the November at the November 17th, 2025 meeting at 6:45 p.m. Clarification on it's not 6:34, it's 6:45 saying that's that dyslexia stuff. Yes.
Yeah. Yeah. >> So, Mr. Chair, can I get a motion, please? Um, everybody understand that? Do we have a motion on the floor to schedule the public hearing for November? >> Schedule it. >> Okay. Mike Conu made the motion. >> I'll second it. >> Second by Tim Kesh. All in favor?
>> I >> I opposed. Motion carries. All right. Anything you guys need to talk about other businesswise? We have a special meeting next week. >> Hang on. We still got some new business
to take care of. business. >> What are we missing? >> Wetland buffers. >> Oh, I didn't see it under here. >> So, gentlemen or the commission. >> So, this is very important to staff. Uh, this one is a working uh ordinance that
we see quite a bit. So, uh, the action requested tonight, a review and consider approval to schedule a public hearing on November 17, 2025 at 6:45 p.m. or shortly after for ordinance 2025337 and ordinance adopting rules and
regulations pertaining to wetland buffer. So, as I stated, uh, staff have received several wetland buffer inquiries and complaints over the last several months. The current city code 152.04 104 rules and definitions only
addresses wetlands and does not define or address wet land buffers. Wetland buffers are not regulated by wet by the wetland conservation act and it is up to the city to regulate and enforce wetland buffers. Staff have met
with the city engineer uh to uh construct and recommend this preliminary wetland uh buffer ordinance. So, like I said, staff reports, we get uh each month we we receive well, one or two comp or calls saying, "Hey, what can
we do in the wetland buffer?" >> And remember, the wetland buffer >> um protects the wet land. It's a segue buffer of vegetation that helps filter out of what's actually going into our
wetlands here in the city. Mhm. >> So, wetland buffer, a protected buffer strip of natural vegetation with a width of 20 ft shall surround all wetlands. Setback vegetation requirements. Uh
setback vegetation shall not be cultivated, cropped, pastured, mowed, fertilized, and subject to the placement of mulch or yard waste or otherwise distur exter disturbed except for
periodic cutting or burning that promotes the health of the buffer or to maintain the proposed natural community. Two, removal of trees, limbs, or branches that are dead, disease, or pose safety hazards.
Actions to address disease or invasive species. Mowing for uh the purpose of public safety. Uh five, temporary disturbance, replacement or repair of buried utilities.
Six. In situations where the buffer is entirely on private property, limited clearing and trimming of trees, shrubs, or other vegetation within the setback is allowed to create an access path delineated
uh wet to the delineated wetland edge. The path shall not exceed 12 ft in width. B. Pesticides and herbicides may be used in accordance with Minnesota Department of Agriculture rules and guidelines. C. Once vegetation is established in a
setback, no field, debris, or other materials shall be excavated from or placed within the setback, including accessory structures, sheds, fences, and pavements. And except for deck footings.
Areas of the transition buffer sh that will be disturbed by gardening activities during construction shall be planted according to the following standards. Soils must be decompacted to the depth of 18 in and organic matter must be incorporated into soils before seeding or planting.
>> How do they propose doing 18 in of depth because the average cultivation for agricultures a few inches not a foot and a half. >> Yeah. plow is only what 14 16 in. >> Not even that. It's usually like 6 in.
And um you're by a wetland, they don't want the soil disturbed. So actually loosening it up 18 in would be counterintuitive of your buffer strip. >> Mhm. >> How does this compare to >> agriculture? They tell you to barely
work it up, plant it into grass, and leave it alone >> because you have a 20 foot buffer along a creek or something like that, right? >> It's more than that. Is it more than that? >> What? Jason, do you know what the buffer is on the cracks >> with farming? >> 50. >> 50.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And what can you do exactly there? I mean, you can't >> you can put hay there and you can >> you can take that off. >> You can take the hay off, >> but you can't go planting corn or anything there. Nothing beans and nothing like that. >> And you definitely can't work it up to
18 in of decompaction. >> Right. Would you have a recommendation then? >> Barely work it up two inches and plant it and leave it alone. >> Got it. All right. >> Yep. >> No, this is just a recommendation from
Bolton to make. So, >> yeah, that 18 in would be you'd be up there with the back hole. >> Mhm. >> Uh transition buffer area shall be planted with a native >> seed mix. Yeah. native seed mix andor
native plantings approved by the city. Uh recording of setback. The setback shall be documented on all and final preliminary and final plats. Uh monumentation. The setback shall be delineated with permanent freestanding
uh markers at the setback the setback's upland edge. >> Now quick question. What does the DNR have to say with this? I ran into it once where we were going to do excavating for a basement up on uh
Deer Ridge and um there was about 20ft circle of uh bull rushes there from the original and uh it got turned in and we had the DNR come out there and oh they weren't going to let us disturb that or anything. Do they have any input in what's been
printed here? This is a this is a jurisdiction of course over the wetland. Yes. Yep. >> But the city sets a jurisdiction for the wetland buffer >> and it just for Okay. >> Just for the clarifying uh commission. This is just for the wet land buffer.
That's >> so they don't get involved with that part. Just the wet. Okay. And we're taking this is based upon industry standards and the city engineer and as you as I'm not sure if you do know but the Bolton mink is the contracted LGU for the city of Lawndale.
>> Yep. >> So like I said these are all best practices and recommendations from our city engineer. >> Okay got that in >> and most importantly this is a question that comes up. Hey can we back fill back here? >> No. >> Nope. >> Uh can I access the wetland? Well, this
one says you can mow a 12t wide path to access it. Maybe you want a kayak back there or maybe you want a a canoe or whatever the case may be. Um it just sets these parameters and these are clearcut um responses instead of oh uh
let me get a hold of the city engineer and have the city engineer come out >> uh and take a look at this. >> So Bolton Bank put this to all together. >> Correct. It was a it was a collaboration of the city administrator, myself. Okay. >> Um the wetland engineer and the city
engineer from Bolton. >> So then I'm really really wondering why they would talk 18 in. >> I can uh look into that after the meeting. >> I wonder if they didn't mean 8 in. I don't know. But yeah, be worth looking
at I guess. >> All right. Now, >> well, one do is buffer. >> Uh, right now there are buffers out there. So, primarily, uh, we're looking at the Legacy Meadows area. >> Okay. >> Oh, okay.
>> Um, Legacy Meadows, uh, Willow Creek Heights area. So, these are the two locations. Every place around >> every all the other areas around town. No, but it pertains to both of both of mostly Legacy Meadows.
>> Okay. And this is where someone comes into town and buys um a home that the lot size is let's say 20,000 square feet and literally only 3,000 you know 400 square ft is usable. >> Yep. >> And then they're wondering well can I do
this or this and this and this and this form or this recommendation answer those answers those questions. >> Makes good sense. All right. So, Mr. Chair, I I am looking at a motion here to schedule the public
hearing for November 17th with proposed uh wetland buffer ordinance. >> You guys hear that? We need a someone to make a motion. >> I'll motion that one. >> We have motion by Mike Harding and a motion by Mike Ku. >> All in favor?
>> I >> I opposed. Motion carries. All right. So, we got that covered. Okay. Yeah, there there you would need something to I'm a little surprised that they don't have more to say about the outside edge of the that the DNR
doesn't, but that's okay. >> Somebody wants to put a 12oot Sasquatch statue in their wetland buffer and they want glowing red eyes on it. Not going to say who it is, but we hear that quite often at Rail 19. I >> actually want to see. >> Is that before or after 10:00?
>> Yeah. Yeah. They're closed by >> It's Tom. >> Tom doesn't have a wet line. >> All right. Other business. Upcoming meeting Monday, November 17th. >> And that one is going to be a very,
very, very busy meeting. >> Very, very, very busy meeting. Yes. >> Okay. >> And thank you for everyone for always being so prompt and uh getting back to us and working as a team. Uh everyone got back to uh me uh to schedule the act next Monday night.
>> Right. >> And this is at 7:00 p.m. >> Yep. >> Uh the the uh schedule of planning and zoning special meeting at 7:00 p.m. for the public hearing of the preliminary and final plat uh for the lawn business park fourth edition. Remember this is
the 100 foot by 200 foot um uh parcel the separation from the uh business park up here uh next to the Dollar General. Um I have received two public uh comments already. Okay. >> With the mailing. >> So and this is scheduled for next Monday
night. >> Okay. All right. Anybody have anything to add? >> Are they pro or anti? >> We'll find out. >> Can't say yet.
>> Yeah. Anybody have anything to bring up? comments, jokes, >> nothing. >> Okay, >> we'd have to shut this off if I >> insults. Yeah. >> All right. Well, then we'd need a motion to adjurnn.
>> Motion to adjurnn. >> We have a motion by Mike Kanye to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Second by Tim Kesh. All in favor? >> I >> I. All opposed? Motion carries. >> Thank you, gentlemen. >> Thank you. And have a good night. >> Yes. Thank you.
>> Yep. Short and sweet.