Hello everyone and welcome to uh the council meeting today uh Monday, December 22nd At 7 p.m. I'll call the order of this meeting. If you could all please stand for the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Thank you. Roll call. >> Brian >> here. >> Kyrie Miller >> here. >> Tom Berg >> here. James Bka
>> here >> and Scott Falavo >> here. >> All right, we have the approval of the agenda. Tonight's agenda goes all the way down to 10E. Are there any additions, deletions, or corrections to the agenda? >> Uh, mayor, it uh requests that uh
acceptance of Haley Van Hu's letter of resignation as police officer um be added to the agenda as well as advertising the uh opening. I'll make a motion to approve with that addition. >> Second. >> All right. First and seconded. Any
further discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> All opposed. All right. Very good. Approval of the minutes. There are none. There is a public hearing today. It is for Harvest Pond Department project tax
abatement. I'll open up this public hearing. Joel, I'm going to let you kick this off. uh just so the public understands this is a a time for you guys to also be involved uh with any input but also things have changed since the recent
article that had came out and so I really want to take time and and review this and what our current options are. So Joel, I'll pass it off to you. >> All right. Thank you, mayor, members of the council. Uh BJB BJB Holdings has applied for a tax abatement of 75% of
their city taxes for 10 years. Uh the city council approved an engagement letter with David Drron and Associates to uh assist the city in the abatement request. Um Shannon Sweeney of David Drron is here tonight. He also attended the November 20th EDA meeting um where
this was presented and discussed. Um it was approved uh 41 to approve the tax abatement and the the finding of facts and recommendation to the council for approval. Uh he also attended the November 24th meeting at which time uh the resolution
was approved to schedule uh the public hearing for tonight. I'm just real real brief um I know Shannon um has spent quite a bit of time on this. Uh the abatement request is 75% for 10 years. total abatement of
$396,876. Uh average annual abatement of $39,688. Um the request is necessary for the financial feasibility of the project. Uh the request will assist with meeting the debt coverage of 1.25% that will be
imposed by a lender and then also assist with with cash on cash rate of return for project investors. Um, as I said, Shannon Sweeney of David John is here. So, I would turn it over to him to um, present the rest of the
information. >> Good evening, members of the council. Shannet Sweeney and David Drs. U, as we initiated a process a few weeks ago to have this hearing. It's required under Minnesota statute. We've published notice. Uh we've invited the public to
attend and comment on the request that's before you. As Joel has mentioned, the EDA has reviewed the request under the under the tax abatement policy that the city's adopted made findings associated with proceeding with the request. Uh for
consideration on the council agenda after the public hearing is a resolution that provides for uh the abatement as requested, 75% over a 10-year term. Uh that's uh that's the item for consideration this evening. But as we
discussed at the last meeting that I attended, there would also be an agreement drafted that provides additional terms associated with any assistance that's to be provided. So happy to answer questions about what that agreement could look like or the
tax abatement process, but uh happy to answer your questions. >> All right. Very good. Um, I'd like to open this up for counsel and then uh we'll take a round with anybody else that wants to add comments and then uh we can go from there. But uh I'll
start with you, Brian. Is there any questions on this abatement that you'd like to uh >> Well, I think we should open it up to the public. I mean, I I I want to hear what the public has to say and then come see. I guess I don't have any questions at the moment, but we'll
have our time to discuss. >> Everybody agree with that? >> Go for it. >> Okay. All right, Shannon. >> Thank you. >> All right. I'll open this up for the public if there's any questions. >> Yeah. Go ahead. Just need your name and
address. Steve Turney 1509 Connecticut Drive Southeast 10ear resident. Uh I'd just like to ask a question regarding a gentleman just came up here with respect to the baitman. If the baitment did a
pass after that 10-year period, does the city will the city have the option to actually recapture that abatement if the property is sold? That's the only question I have with respect to him right now. Okay. Can we answer that question?
>> I'm pretty sure it's in our recapturement clause, but correct. >> During the term of the abatement, the city will benefit from 25% of the property tax base once the abatement's done. And the abatement is a reimbursement of taxes that are paid.
And so when the abatement period is done, you'll collect all of the property taxes that you would normally capture without an abatement being in place. So are you going to benefit from an increase in tax base at the end of the abatement term? Yes. Uh it'll be roughly
that $40,000 that you're capturing during the abatement term based on this year's tax rate. >> Thank you. That answers the question. Thank you. Cool. Is there anybody else that would like to ask any questions about this abatement
process? >> So, I'd like to clarify. So, that after after 10 years, then you would get the money back that you've abated. Is that is that how I understand this or not? >> Uh, no. We will um we will collect the
uh full uh taxes that are levied against the property. But but the abadement of the 396,000 total for the 10 years is gone. >> Correct. >> Correct. Yes. >> So So you're saying that the abatement
you're only going to get 25% of the taxes now. >> Correct. >> 75% is abated. To clarify that then in the very end you said we're going to get the 75% No. No. Um, so currently
>> gone. >> Correct. So currently the city collects about $830 on that total parcel and um after if approved after the 75% abatement um the city would would collect a little over $12,000. I think
it's $12,63. So even after the abatement, we're still collecting over $12,000 more than we are today. question. Let me ask in a different way. At the end of that 10-year period, if the
original developer sells the property, there's a margin of profit during that time because of the abatement. Has it been considered that in the contract then as far as um the abatement contract in that agreement that at the
end of that 10 years if it's sold that we could recapture the entire embatement taken from the profits from that developer? I've seen that done before. But has that been a consideration at all? I'm talking about if they sell it at the end of the 10 years,
>> right? Why why should we allow them to to profit during that time and then sell it? I want my money back. That's what I'm saying. >> So, item nine on uh I mean I guess both the city and the
developer would need to agree to that. >> That's after a clause in there. >> That's what I'm after. >> Underneath the tax abatement policy. Um item nine for recapture of tax abatement
says um any recapture of tax abatement is at the sole discretion of the Lndale City Council and shall be considered on a casebycase basis. Recapture considerations may include but are not limited to the following and the first item is sale or closure of the facility
and relocation of the company from Lndale. Significant change in the use of the facility and/or business activities of the company. Significant employment reductions not reflective of the company's normal business cycle andor local and national economic conditions.
failure to achieve the minimum number of net new jobs and wage level as spe as specified in the tax abatement policy application andor city business subsidy policy and failure to comply with annual reporting requirements and that was
signed off. So I guess my question would be why why wouldn't we explore that option if now I'm not saying I'm going to be here in 10 years but I mean future councils why wouldn't we look at recapturing the abatement from the sale
if it were to sell in 10 to 15 years >> and your that's exactly my point I can't guarantee that this council would be here and I'm strongly advocating for that verbiage to be added to the agreement based on what you That's right.
>> I don't think typically the intent of abatement is to abate it for 10 years and then say, "Okay, now give us our money back." I think the intent is if if you're abating it, you would abate it. and with the expectation that um you're
accelerating the development of this project, increasing the tax base, there's other benefits than the $397,000 that's being requested. I don't know if now's a good time, but some of the other um development improvements and fees that will be
received by the city, and this is just the apartment portion only. Um, currently, uh, I think most everyone here knows we've got that demonstration lane on Birch, uh, Street Northeast there with those ballards. That is always was always intended to be
temporary, a temporary solution. So, the developer is going to, uh, construct a paved trail from 8th Avenue. It'll go south a little, south a little bit, and then uh, go east between the backyards of the proposed single family lots and the apartment to the villages and the
library. Our whack and sack fees would be 246,500 and 319,000 respectively. Trunk water and sewer fees of 104,850. Uh civil defense basically pay for new
uh sirens 4350. Park dedication 101,500. The city portion of the building permits $28,000. So the total development fees in the building permit revenue to the city is $84,200. And as I said earlier, we're still going
to get 25% of the uh increased tax base of about $12,000 a year. So over 10 years, it's $120,000. So even after the abatement is uh paid back to the developer after he pays his taxes, um the city, if you would net out
the the revenues and the uh the abatement, you know, we're looking at over $526,000 that the city would would receive. Can I put my two minutes in? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> I think I'll speak from here. People can
hear me. If I if I go there, I'll have my back for them and I would rather speak from here and read what I have written so don't forget. Okay. Um, there's a lot of people here that don't know who I am. My name is Evelyn Duan. I'm a certified public accountant
licensed for the state of Minnesota board of accountancy since 1980. I started the economic development authority in the year 2001 at a time I was a member of this city council. I have talked to several people and I myself
do not approve of the tax abatement of 75% to this of the city real estate taxes for this affordable housing project. The county has already denied the tax abatement that was gosh
it was bound. The developer has an opportunity to claim a 9% tax credit against his durable income tax. There are some state tax credits also. Just using a figure is just using a figure. Not saying it's true of $13 million of
the construction cost. The tax federal credit would be 1,170,000 to be used in a 10-year period. If the developer needs upfront financing, he can sell the outside. he can sell to outside investors, usually financial
institutions, that he can sell his federal tax credits. The city should have industry and commercial business coming before building affordable housing of this size of 58 units. It is said that the housing rent is market
rate. That rate would be um for rent would be 1,225 $1,25 for a onebedroom and $1,500 for a three-bedroom apartment. That makes me wonder about market rate when the
mediate income of Lill is 91,000 a year. I am here for the taxpayers in Lansville to inform them of these things. This tax abatement reduces the real estate taxes of this housing project and ensure in increases your real estate taxes for 10
years. This tax abatement will possibly open up avenues for other projects. Any government money given and used for commercial industrial affordable housing and other projects is subsidized with your tax dollars. Council members,
please put this under your serious condition before approving this affordable housing project with the 75% real estate tax abatement. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Evelyn. >> Uh, one thing I do want to talk about is
Evelyn did send that um I wish I had it in front of me right now, but that uh low-inccome tax credit, and I think that we need to talk about that a little bit more. Slowly, Shannon. Um, if you don't mind, I'd like to drag you back up here again.
And let me know if you can't answer this or not, but um, there was a a lowinccome tax credit that Evelyn's referring to, >> and my thing is is if Brian applies for
market rate, do those lowinccome tax credits apply to any tax abatement by >> No. No, the low-income housing tax credits administered by the state of Minnesota on a competitive basis. It's a deep subsidy that often requires
requires a you know it's a it's a scored process, a competitive process where you have to one demonstrate the need. You have specific income requirements that you have to meet uh for low and very low income residents to participate in that
type of housing. And ultimately, uh, it's a much different program than, you know, what this developer is proposing to construct. While low low-income housing tax credits are heavily regulated by the state and they provide a very high quality of
construction as mandated by the state, there's other deep subsidies that are required and cities are often required to provide tax increment financing assistance, which is a different mechanism. providing a subsidy similar to tax abatement only over a much longer term in order for them to be competitive
in that process. So >> and then with tiff taxmental financing >> yes >> um what is required >> 20% of the units would have to be made available to folks at 50% of area of of
area median income by family size. Uh, and it's a it's a moving chart based on the number of folks in the family. It probably starts in the neighborhood of 40,000 in income for a family of one. Uh, it moves up incrementally by $2 to
$3,000 per each individual added to the household. But 20 20% of the units have to be made available. So, they have to either be rented or left vacant until they're occupied by somebody that meets those income thresholds. So, two out of every 10 units would have to meet that
requirement. >> I want to pick the brain of Charlie Peters. I'm sorry. I hate to put you on the spot, but uh can you take us through the county side of this? Um, thank you, Shannon. >> of the chips or
>> of of where you guys were at because I know it was said that the county struck this down, but as far as I know, it never got up to the commissioners. So we our our county administrator did invite the developer to speak to the
commissioner. He never showed up or never took our invite. Actually, uh the county has never done tax abatements on apartment buildings. We're more in line with doing abatements on industry and
job creation. And number three, going over your numbers, the county county would not recoup a lot of your sack and whack charges. Those numbers look favorable to me that you're going to recoup quite a
bit of the money instead instead of not getting a deal on those stack wax. tax is a good deal for the city and the developer.
>> Yeah, >> good. Uh, does anybody else have any questions they'd like to ask in regards to this? Go ahead. >> Does a tax abatement follow the property? Let's say in 5 years you sell the property. Does it go with the
>> I'm not the developer just so >> but agreements typically have the following statement in them. Assignment of the agreement for the tax abatement assistance requires council approval but that approval is not
unreasonably withheld. Meaning that if a bonafide purchaser that has the qualifications to adequately own and manage the facility were to buy it, typically that language means the council would be required to approve the
assignment of that. And so, uh, that's standard language. Can you modify that language? Absolutely. But that's how they're generally written. >> Yes. >> Yes. Now, does this apply for the lots also?
Because there's seven or eight lots that be sold out. >> No, >> that's a section. >> Correct. >> Go ahead. >> Since Evelyn stated her credentials, I'll just briefly go through mine to a point.
I've had the opportunity over the past 30 years to not only sit in the ninth largest city in our state as a city council member planning commission or make some very tough decisions with respect to eminent domain and reszoning.
But I've also had the opportunity here in Lansdale as well to set as a planning commissioner and also as a city council member. I also carry a building license for homes and commercial property as
well as I've been a developer not only in this state but in in other states. Plus, I have a master's degree in public administration from a governance standpoint. The reason I bring that up is to add some credibility with respect to what I have to say
from the for me the bottom line is I heard that this has a net to the city of what was it 500 and what was the number >> $525,000 >> $525,000 net to the city that's the bottom line
for me the extrinsic value with respect we can talk all day long about bringing jobs not bringing jobs we needed. The other value that I bring to uh when I look at making decisions like this is a part of the comprehensive plan. This is
part of the comprehensive plan. I remember when that was developed all those years ago. Setting politics aside, I'm going to be a bad council member if I vote for this. My neighbors are going to hate me or a bad mayor or they're going to love me if
I vote. setting all that aside because that it it's real. That is real. But the bottom line for this community, if it doesn't damage the community, which financially it's not going to, one of the things that hasn't been mentioned is the values of our properties over the
past, if you've lived here more than five years. I've made a couple hundred,000, more than $200,000 on a piece of property that I haven't put a dime into moving here 10 years ago. We talk about the uh raising tax rates. Let's talk
about the margins that you've you've been able to enjoy because of the growing community as well. So, that being said, as a former council member, these aren't easy decisions, but the bottom line for me is this will improve the the it won't
harm the financial ability of the city to the bond rating. It's part of our comprehensive plan. Does everyone like it? No. Does most people like it? I don't know. But I'm ready to move in and smoke a cigar and
and get out my putter cuz I want to stay here in L. And I rest on that. Thank you. >> Thank you, Steve. >> Anybody else? Uh my name is Tim Kesh 6112nd Avenue Southwest. Um one thing to consider and
I'm just speaking strictly of the economic side of this project. This is the largest uh building project in the city of Lonzo ever. Has there been anything bigger than this? Dollar-wise, >> uh size-wise be the villages. >> Size-wise be the villages, but dollar
size, I mean this is a 10 to$13 million deal. Um, you know, and something to think of is, yeah, everybody hates to hear, yeah, you got to give the developer money and stuff, but remember the chance he's taken. He's dumping what, 10 to$13 million in this project.
Um, day one, he doesn't have a scent coming in on him and stuff. If you do a simple math, um, $13 million at 8% interest is a million bucks a year. He's paying just in interest. um you divide that out over 58 units, they're like $12
$1,300 of interest per unit per month. And again, so he's the margins are are are are tiny and stuff. And he's taking a huge huge uh risk and stuff. So um you know, and another thing too is is the
economic uh um impact. People are saying um you know, we want more business, more business, more business. Well, if we got 58 units coming to town, figure an average of two people a unit, we got 116 people extra in town. If you figure on
average if they spend 400 bucks a month between groceries, gas, whatever, um you know, your your economic uh multiplier when they put that money in is probably at a 1.2 to 1.4%. You're looking 7 $800,000 a year that
just the residents are pumping into the economy in city of Lonzo from the grocery store to the hardware store to liquor store to car repairs, everything on and stuff. And that's a big thing a lot of people don't see and stuff on there and stuff. So, um there you we
want more industry and that's always a key thing is keep the industry growing and town and stuff, but this is one way to get them in there and stuff. Um and and anybody says, "Why don't I get a discount on this when I build my house and stuff?" Well, I tell them, "Put 10
to$13 million down and I bet the city will give you uh work with you and help you out on the deal and stuff." So, again, that's all I got to say on this, guys. >> Thank you, Tim. >> Anybody else? >> I got something to say. Gary Kazachk. I
lived here for 75 years. I have never seen any of these big projects like this help me out as a lawn resident. You can spoof all the figures you want, but I have never seen this business part that
we have here. Did that ever make the city any money? >> It's going to was create a lot of headaches. And the way it was managed, it's never managed after we look at it for years that it was managed the correct way. Every time we do these big
projects is just a big nightmare. When I was started a grocery store here in town, I don't know how many 30 years ago, I didn't have the guts to come here and ask you guys, the council, for money. You know why? Because it was my
project. I was going to build it. I was going to get the profit from it. And I wasn't about to share the profit once I spent my own money on it with anybody. And now now these people are coming to town. They're going to make a profit,
but they're turning it all around that it's all so good for us. I don't know. I don't see how the hell it's so good for me because every time I see these projects, my taxes go up and the quality of life in Wville actually goes down.
And I can speak from being here 75 years. It goes down every year. The quality of life in Longville, there's more crime, there's more noise, there's more everything going the wrong way. And when you guys there's there's a lot of
unique new people when you were running for your positions. You were saying how you were going to do things the way the people wanted, not the way you wanted it in individually. Boy, I'll tell you, are we seeing a
turnaround on that? >> All right. Thank you, Gary. Anybody else? >> Move to close this public hearing. >> All right. Motion by Palava. >> Second. >> Second by Miller. Any further discussion? All in favor?
>> All opposed. This meeting is now closed. On to the next item is presentation of citizens petitions and comments. Comments limited to two minutes. So if you're not on the agenda tonight, now is your time to speak. >> Okay. All right. Seeing none, uh, moving
on to the approval of the consent agenda. Today's items are monthly and additional bills, treasurers report, board and commission minutes. Consider approval of an agreement for EMS education medical direction for first responder agencies.
Uh, item E, consider approval of uh, prosecution services agreement between the city of Lonzo and Rice County Attorney's Office. Item F, consider approval of cigarette license for the following business. Macintos, Dollar General, Casey's, and Ldale food and
fuel marketplace. Item G, consider approval of a quote in the amount of $5,437 submitted by Kangas Tank Restoration to clean the water tower exterior. And item H, consider approval of a 2026 cannabis
retail business application, low potency hemp edible submitted by Lonsdale Liquor. Are there any items that would like to be removed for new business? Motion to approve the consent agenda. >> Motion by Palava. Second. >> The second by Worm Scruchian. Any
further discussion? All in favor? >> All opposed. >> Okay. There is no old business tonight. So on to the first item of new business. Consider approval of resolution 2025-58. Resolution approving uh property tax
abatement for certain property located in the city of Lonville. Joel Erison. >> All right. Thank you, mayor, members of the council. While we just recently had the public hearing uh right before this agenda item, um Shannon Sweeney reviewed the the request. Um I provided
information on um some of the fees that the that the city would obtain. Um, if approved, uh, the city council would be approving the actions of staff and consultants, uh, in arranging for, uh, approval of this resolution. Approve the abatement subject to the following terms
and conditions. Only abading the city share of, uh, taxes generated from the property. Uh, abating 75% of taxes received attributable to the project, abating $396,876 for a period not exceeding 10 years.
the developer would be reimbursed uh on August 1st and February 1st updating no more than the greater of 10% of the city's net tax capacity uh for that year or $200,000. Now, this is um in statute in uh cumulative over the
city. Currently we do not have any uh abatement projects agreeing that resolution can all be modified um with prior written approval of the council and needs to be compliant with the tax abatement act. Uh adding to its tax levby the total amount of
abatement and authorizing the preparation of a tax abatement agreement that will further define the terms and conditions of the abatement. And I reviewed the current taxes, what would be paid uh after baitment and the fees. And then included with staff's
report is uh the letter provided by David, the uh apartment project tax abatement for the city only, the proposed resolution, our tax abatement policy and application. >> All right. Very good. Thank you. Uh,
Kari, is there anything you would like to add to this? >> Well, >> any questions? >> I don't really have any questions, but I have statements um that I want. Um, so I know that there are pros and cons to tax abatements. I've been a former business
owner. I've been an apartment complex owner and manager. Um, and I just it would bring more affordable housing to Lndale, but I guess without this abatement from the city, is this project
feasible? So, it would not happen if this doesn't get approved. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Um, there is a possibility that it increases local business revenue with the um, like Tim had brought up about the people moving in and visiting our
local shops and restaurants. So, that's a pro. Um, it improves that feasibility for this project to happen. After the 10 years, the property is fully taxed. Um, and it could be one of become one of the larger taxable properties in town. Um, the land currently produces very little
in tax revenue at about 800 a year as Joel has brought up. Um, the abatement is capped and predictable, so we know what the amounts are. Um, and like I said before, it will potentially bring more local spending with more renters in the community, provides housing for
future um, companies who want to come in to locate in Lndale. And I know there are a couple of deals maybe in the works right now, and it also increases potential for local construction companies and local small businesses to work on the site to construct it. But
the cons, I am not a fan of tax abatement at all. I'm not in favor of it. Um, as a whole, um, I'm against the abatement because of the amount of the debt the city already has. We have $5.3 million coming due starting next year,
2027, um, for the cost of this building. Um, since the city has never granted an abatement before, this will set a precedent of abatement application for future residential properties and developments. Um, and usually abatements are for industrial commercial purposes
that will bring jobs into the market. Um, we are losing the funding that would come from the full tax amount, which we desperately need. We had to cut our budget huge this year. We made a lot of cuts to a lot of departments and we're running bare bones and it just doesn't
seem fair to me that we did all that and then we're going to give away money in a couple years for this project. I'm also worried about the long-term shift back onto the taxpayers. There's nothing free and the burden of giving back money will lie on somebody eventually. um is and if the developer is planning on using this
abatement money um is the developer potentially using this abatement money toward another development elsewhere. I don't that's just a question that I had. Um I know that this is a huge high dollar project. So you're probably putting all your resources just into
this. um if it is granted, how will the developer plan to sustain this um tax after the abatement period is over um due to the increased cost of the tax coming to full term. And this is only bringing in one new job as a facility
caretaker. So I think I I have a lot more, but I think I touch base on the key points um that I have as a representative of the people. I've talked to a lot of people. There are, like I said, pros and cons, but I lean against a tax abatement.
Thank you. >> All right, Jamie >> Joel, have we ever granted a tax abatement in town? >> No. >> No. Have we given steep discounts to city- owned land? Do developers? >> We have. Yes.
>> We don't own this land. We can't give a discount on the land. Um, is it a not more then? If we happen to some way strike gold or something, lower the property taxes in town, it's not 3 to9,688.
It'd go down to 75% of what the total would be. >> Uh, correct. It's no more than 75% each year, I believe, and not to exceed the 397. >> Okay. Let's say we don't approve this. He doesn't build. Right now, we're getting $829 a year.
We'll probably have to raise taxes. He'll probably get $1,000 a year off of that lot. In 10 years, that's $10,000. Right now, after 75% abatement, we're getting $12,000. Plus all those fees, we're getting $84,000
upfront. We say no, it doesn't get built, we get $10,000. We're losing half a million right off the bat. That's all I've got for right now. >> All right, Scott. Um
uh listening to um uh Council Member Miller's uh position uh uh I I see I'm on both sides of that. Uh as with uh uh Jaime's I I agree on that. Uh it's not a
it's not an easy decision. Um there's uh there's a lot uh the question I had was so with the with the abatement if the county was not doing any abatement was did that I I don't recall that doesn't change that didn't change the city's
number at all. >> No it did not. >> It did not. Okay. So, so the, so you were asking for 75% of city and 75% of county and so the county didn't didn't approve it. So then this
makes it nonfeasible uh if if we don't approve it. So it's kind of, you know, it dumps it all on us. Uh whereas uh he could make it work if the without the county, but he can't make it
work without us. But I don't it's it's a little little lopsided, I think. >> Can I address some of that? >> Sure. >> Okay. >> I'm Brian Breman again. Appreciate everyone's time. Uh council members and
mayor, uh one question just about the county and in general. Um, since we started this whole conversation, there's a lot of uh noise and concern about affordability, low income section 8. Um, so off the get-go, we didn't even start a conversation about TIFF because TIFF
is going to have that AMI component, affordability component tied to it. >> So, I didn't even want to open that Pandora's box. I didn't think that was the right thing to do with the conversations that were had. Kind of moving down the list of options available to me. Uh, abatement is one of
them. I did talk with the county. Um I I reached out to Kathy and uh the feedback I got was that there was really no interest from the county and if there was there was going to be an affordability component tied to it again. And so really again I backed out of that conversation. I opted not to go to the county commissioners board
meeting just because I don't want to have abatement tied to this project because I've told all of you that I wasn't having or not abatement affordability tied to this project. I've told all of you that this is not going to be an affordable project. This is not going to be a section five deal. It's not going to have a low income tax
credit that I can sell. This is a market rate apartment project. And so really, city tax abatement is the last item on the list that I have available to explore to make this project pencil out. Um, and as was mentioned, right now in total, the property kicks off about
$1,900 a year in in taxes. Uh after two years, the city's going to recoup what been equivalent to seven years of taxes of the property sitting as vacant land. And that doesn't include the single family
lots. Uh those will kick off. Those will probably kick off around $785 each for those nine lots. Once they're developed, that number will probably jump over to $30,000. So none of that is touched by the abatement. That's all. You're getting 100% of your share on
that. I just need the abatement to make my cash flows and more importantly my debt service coverage ratio which the bank's going to require um to meet those thresholds in my uh my cash flow. >> So if the county uh would have would have approved it, you'd be sitting even prettier then.
>> Well, right now the property doesn't cash flow even with the abatement. So I've got work to do beyond this conversation. >> So then if it doesn't cash flow then then what happens? >> I mean >> my job is to make it happen. >> Wow. >> And so I got to a a a dream, you know,
an idea without a plan is a dream. And >> no, well, it's a process, I would say. So, we've been down this process before. Right now, I don't have fully engineered drawings. So, we've got uh contractor pricing based on some higher level drawings. So, we'll get those schematic drawings done and then my contract
numbers can come in. I can start to value engineer from there. But, I've got to shave another $250,000 off of my uh general contractor. So, I got to go beat him up in order for this thing to pencil at this point. So, you lose a another
You say 250 or did you say >> I've got to reduce my I've got to find a way to value engineer $250,000 out of my budget yet in order for this to pencil out. >> All right, that's all I have. Thank you. All right, Ryan.
>> So, what I'm hearing is this isn't a done deal as of yet. If you're still looking at shaving 250. >> Well, no, correct. I plan on still closing on the lot. I'll have to figure it out. Bank rates are dropping right now, too. So, I think, you know, hopefully we'll get a little bit of blue sky at the, you know, in spring. But,
>> let's say it doesn't work. You own the land. I I assume you just sell it then. That's That's the plan. That's the That's the worst case scenario for you. >> Uh, I guess worst case Yeah, like I
don't think I'd sell. I'd continue to try to figure this thing out. I've got you north of $100,000 in at this point. >> Sure. You know, um I guess, you know, looking at where the county came in with this saying, you know, we've never done
this for housing housing. Um you know, I know we as a city, what we've looked at for incentives for development for housing in the past has always been reduced or deferred sack and whack fees. Um,
you know, I hear you say that you talk to the county and they say, "Well, even with abatement, we are looking for an affordability piece to it to offer a bait." So, what I'm hearing and and Charlie translate what I'm this is this is what I'm
hearing and tell me if I'm if I'm hearing it incorrectly. So, the county is saying we would consider it, but we need more. we need something from you. And that's where this affordability comes in. If we were to consider it, we want something. And I
guess I'm kind of thinking from a city standpoint, what are we actually getting more other than yes, we're getting the tax revenue? Of course, I get that, you know. Um, but when this originally started, we had talked about amenities and amenities
open to the public, but then that went away. we get a a walking path, which we do need, absolutely. Um, but I feel like, you know, we say, well, we get the sack and whack fees. Well, we get the sack and whack fees if the project goes with
or without abatement. Those are just required. We get the park dedication. Well, that's a requirement of the project. So, I feel like, you know, we're not, you know, going back to what you said, we're not creating any jobs. Um,
so that's kind of the the con side of things. I'm I'm, you know, concerned. Absolutely. I I I agree with Jamie 100%. We do need more tax revenue. Um, we do need more housing, but I'm wondering
if there's more that we should be talking about here than than just we get these things that we would get with or without abatement. That's that's kind of my only concern here is there's no additional incentive on our end other than well you get the sacken whack which
we have to get anyway and you get the taxes. >> I think the issue is you won't get any of that because the project won't happen. >> Yeah. >> Well, this project won't >> correct. >> Can I also say that uh you know the
county may not have done abatement in the past but they've most certainly done tiff. >> Oh yeah. No, but we're not talking about TIFF, >> right? And that was intent was done. >> We wouldn't even be at this level if TIFF was was what you're coming to us. I can tell you that much. Right. >> No, exactly. I'm well aware of that. Um,
so I just want to make that as well. >> Oh, yeah. No, and I I appreciate that, you know, and I totally understand and and believe me, I I'm I'm going to be straightforward and honest with you. I believe you when you say you're not interested in affordability, you're not interested in section 8. You know, I I
100% believe you. I'm not I'm not saying that that was ever a thing that crossed my mind from the moment you presented for the first time. I believed you. I never thought that this would be um a section 8 or or affordable housing project as long as you own it. That's
the other piece to this. It's like what happens 10 years down the road after the sale. And you know, I mean, that's not your problem. It's not your, you know, if if you sell. I'm not saying you will in 10 years. >> Could I add something? because the 10 year thing just something just popped in my mind at 10 years at that point
there's probably going to be some maintenance and stuff that needs to get done on the properties that's >> um and so if there's going to be an increase in taxes there's going to be an increase in maintenance or updating costs too. Well, ideally, I mean, to your point, Scott, I think, you know,
and to play devil's advocate on this, I think, um, I have faith, >> you know, I I don't know you, Brian. I don't know you. We haven't had any conversations outside of council meetings. I believe you. I have faith
that this is going to be a well-kept pro property. Um, you know, I mean, and part of that's a leap of faith because I don't know any of your other projects. I don't, you know, they're fairly new, right? But, you know, it's a big investment. I I I doubt that you're going to let your your very large
investment go by the wayside. With that said, you know, the maintenance over the time, but the property value is going to go up and, you know, it's is it a hold for 10 years and and jump when the cost goes up
because the taxes come due? I guess I don't know. I mean, I would hope not, but you know, you're an investor. You're out to make money. You're not you're not in it for the long run. You know, I mean, this is not like your home. >> Well, right. I am in it for the long run. I think 10 years is a pretty
standard window that investors proforma at. I don't have a necessarily plan to exit after 10 years. That's in order to build a IRRa, an internal rate of investment. We have to have a sale event at year 10 in order to build that metric. So, that's why it's a 10-year cash flow analysis. Um, our lenders are
going to have requirements in our in our lending covenants that require certain the building be upkept. Um, your houses don't have that. Well, they might to a certain extent, not to ours, but uh then we also have a replacement reserve. So, we fund a kitty bank every year to keep
the property updated. And every when you buy a house, you sign a 25 30 year loan. We usually sign a fiveyear. So, every five years, we revolve that debt. and pull out cash to reinvest back in the building because we can't get the rents we need if we've got a dilapitated building. So, I've got just as much of an invested interest in keeping this
building the nicest building in town as anybody. >> Yeah. You know, and I I I get that, you know, from from a um an investment standpoint. Absolutely. It makes 100% sense. Um, you know, the other the other thing is I wonder, you know, I got to
imagine that there's investors out there to expand the investment pool on something like this because I mean, housing is a premium right now, not just here, not just in Minnesota, but across the country. I mean, housing is a big thing and people are making a lot of
money on housing. They're making a lot of money owning properties. I mean, ask Black Rockck. >> They wouldn't be buying up housing if there wasn't money to be made in housing. So, I mean, these are the things that I'm
weighing. >> Well, any savvy investor is going to weigh risk versus return. So, you can go in the stock market, it's got higher returns, but it's got a higher gamble. You can go into treasuries and bonds, low risk, low return. Real estate falls generally in the middle of that. So, I've got bookends of what my returns
have to be at in order to attract an investor who's comfortable with the risk associated as was mentioned. I building this thing without a single lease signed day one. So, I'm going at risk on that. I'm the one signing the personal guarantee with the bank. Um, and so that's the risk that I'm willing to
embark on. And in order to get my investor pool on board, that return has to be a market rate return that they could find in Anandale or elsewhere. in Anandale, this exact same building, $250,000 less in city expenses. So, you
not that you have to be keeping up with the Joneses, but if you're trying to be competitive in the market, you that's the gap that you got to bridge is this building. This exact same building cost $250,000 less just because of city upfront cost sack whack park dedication um for a 58 unit building that I just
built in Anandale. So, was that from incentives that they offered or just off offtheshelf pricing? >> Offtheshelf pricing. >> That's all I've got. >> I nitpicked this performer without you even knowing about it and I sat down
with somebody that absolutely hates this apartment. Okay. >> And at the end of it, they said, "There's no way this pencils out without this abatement." Um there's a little bit of wiggle room that you can use. Um we talk about the debt service on there.
You know, you got to invest more into your principal amount and I think you know that to bring that debt service down, but I know you have the wiggle room to do it. Um for me personally, you want to make sure that people succeed in this
town. Um let me make that clear again. You want to make sure that everybody succeeds in this town. And if he's already saying he can't do that without the abatement, he can't do it without the abatement. And
I mean, has anybody else bothered to really dissect the performer? I mean, we talk about things that we ran on, Gary, to make your point. I got a business lined up for the business park. I'll announce it in the middle of January for the first time in a long
time. a well-known business is going to go in there. And I'm excited to announce that. But where are these people going to live at? You know, we talk business over and over and over again. And with this city, it's you got to make incentives. We're
going to have a conversation on a hotel. And if you guys looked at the hotel, guess what? Right on there tiff, right? There's additional uh deals. Either it's deferred whack or it's donated land. You got to do this in order to make something succeed in this town. And I'm
not going to sit here and bang my head up against a wall constantly wondering why is it we can't get business in town. I mean, I'm just not. One thing that I ran on was the growing concern of debt service and the additional debt service
we continue to put ourselves in. Advanced Exhaust Solutions came into the business park. They're going to buy out the whole debt service for that business park. That wise that was why the bonnie was voted for this building. The wacka sack, if you guys want to double down and talk about relief, then let's make a
motion tonight once we if we approve this. Let's take the wacka sack and pay down the business part. You know, I don't want to sit up here and say, "Oh, I'm sorry. We raised your taxes." When we had a viable choice right here, there's nothing that's been pitched for this land. You're not going to build
enough houses that's going to be more valued than this apartment in 10 years. You're not going to get the whack-a-ack fees out of that. And you also look at the economy. We are a bedroom community. We are. We
all know that. We got to make sure that we keep the money in town. Well, who has the most dispensable income? There's people that rent because they're not out there fixing the strings on their snowblower like I had to do the other day or rebuild carbs. You know, it's to me honestly, this is a
no-brainer. Um I know a lot of people doom and gloom over tax abatement, but we wouldn't have this conversation about tax abatement if somebody wasn't interested in putting for $13 million into this community. That's a fact. You're not going to get $13,000 worth of
property taxes if this isn't built up. On top of that, the nine houses to the north of it, that's adding more tax revenue to the city brings in another $100,000 off of park dedication and and whacket sack. You're looking at almost a million dollars. When is the city ever
seen that much money coming in off of a project? So, I mean, I get what people are afraid of, whether it's low income or section 8 or it's Brian taking us to the tank and the cleaners right after this. But my thing is this is I've stared at this performer. I sat down
with a county. I sat down with Joel. I sat down with another private third person that's not afraid to speak their mind to me. It doesn't pencil out without the abatement. And uh but we went the extra mile and I think Charlie
can even back this up. I I sent a spreadsheet about potentially splitting the 75% for 10 years. 44% to the county and 44% to the city where we walk away with $32,000 annually. But at the same time,
they kept saying, "Well, why can't you guys do that? We'll sign off on TIFF, but why can't you guys just take the 75% for 10 years?" And I said, "Well, I don't know what council wants. This has been in front of us, and nobody's brought up any questions." And this is
exactly the history of Lonsdale. You get somebody that wants to put money in it and then at the final moment you vote no and then you piss them off. They walk away and then you hit your head up against a wall saying why is it that we can't bring anything to the city of Lansdale and I'm for one am not going to
participate in that. So I mean to be honest with you my integrity is everything to me. So if people are mad about how I want to vote or what I got to say it is what it is. But I was elected for two years to do the best possible job that I can and
make the best financial decisions with the city. And I put a lot of time into this to state that this project is good. We want to make sure he succeeds and builds a really high quality building, but also we are walking away with
substantial amount of money where we can provide that relief. We can focus on a whole lot of things and there's a whole lot more that comes down with this. You know, I talked about the business park. 16.2 acres for a business plus an additional building that's been sitting
out there that's been empty. We also since this conversation, how many businesses currently have been talking about expansion? I think you got phone calls for two and I got phone calls for two. This has been nothing but good for business. So, I mean, I'm 100%
in favor of this and I hate abatement. I had to force myself to want to vote for this and I took every responsible step because that's what I was elected to do to make financial decisions that are rooted in facts, not emotion. We made
sure that there was not going to be any issues with section 42 or section 8 or low income. We respected the residents on that because that was a rumor that they stated, not a rumor we said or any facts of what we said. We valued this
decision and since the beginning of time since I brought this up, I said this has got to be a good decision. Let's make sure that we understand what's going on. TIFF was talked about where we said immediately tiff is a no-go. We talked about low income. We talked
about section 8. All no goes before it even came to council. We we agreed on that. So, at the end of the day, I'm ready to I'm ready to vote on this. We've talked enough about this. So, if there's anything else anybody wants to
say, I'll entertain a motion. >> I want to say I have studied it. I have a background in accounting as well. And to me, to be a smart business owner, you can't rely on abatement as your only means to make this happen. That should
just be a cushion. you should have the ability to do this without abatement and the abatement would be a bonus. So then you'd have your cushion of whatever. Also, I looked back at our um October 9th meeting and initially it was a 5-year abatement at a 25% split between
the city, county, and school, you know, and so it's like kind of jumping all over the place. And I don't like that. I feel like we're just getting rolled like what's next and is this actually what it's going to be, you know, and that's I just I'm not a fan of tax abatement, especially if it's going to make or
break a project. That should not be the reason we abate something. Um that's just how I feel. I'm sorry that >> that is the reason why you seek abatement, >> right? >> I don't think Shannon would endorse the abatement if the property if the project pencled without it or with the EDA. um
they they go through the proforma and and make that verification. And I I think Shannon would agree that what I'm asking for again, not that you need to keep up with the Joneses is far less than what most municipalities are offering in today's world. >> I mean just just for thrills. What what does every other community ask for?
Shannon, >> I would say the average project that I work on is providing tax increment financing assistance. They do consider that market rate housing and they're subsidizing overturn approximately 15 years is pretty average.
>> And what's land price? >> Oh, it's varies wildly between communities. >> Sure. I've seen a lot of people from here like around us that's been donated land and tiff for 15 20 years.
>> Annale's 1.4 million in tiff. Hutchinson gave me land for a dollar plus tiff. But long story, folks like Shannon, they scrutinize this. That's what I paid when I do those studies with Shannon to validate that no, this project won't
pencil without TIFF. And really, no housing in any sort of rural Minnesota will right now. And so we understand that that needs to be a component. >> The other reason that Krie, you brought up a good point. The last time that we
talked about it was 25% between city, county, school for five years and then I said no to school. Um, and then we talked about it being on the county and on the city and at that
time it was we were going through the performer and Brian still didn't have all the numbers in. And so he was I said to him, I go, "Well, that will be the last time I share that until we get the final numbers." So, I mean, it looks like it jumps everywhere, but
understand this. I mean, what was the soil samples that were conducted on there? How bad were they? >> We've got about $250,000 of additional soil cost just because there's a lot of organic soil that'll need to be exported. Um, and so that every time I get that news, you know, the project
goes backwards for me. Um, and so the performer you see, I've got about 30 of these that have just evolved since I started this. Um, and so what you see today is a kind of a work of art in my mind. But it's how we get from the start of the project to where we are now.
And the other thing is is if we go if we go more the thing is is we went with the 75% because we felt that that was the most that we could muster. It it was the most I mean he should be asking us for more
uh because it would take a lot of headache off of him to try not to manipulate all these numbers to make the bank approve it. Because the bank will not approve it without the abatement. All right. Well, I think it's time that
uh we get going. So, what's motion uh what's council's decision here? One thing we have to remember is the school district's going to be getting a lot of money. And this is to the new Prague school district who's been hurting for years where they've been
cutting stuff. So that's going to benefit the school district. The county is going to benefit from what they're getting. And yeah, we could be getting more and he could say no and walk away and we could get nothing. We're getting a lot of money. We're getting more than the school district's going to get. We're
getting more than the countyy's going to get right in year one. That's why they said why don't you guys abate not we'll help because they're getting nothing in year one we are. I motion to approve the abatement.
>> All right. Motion by Vipka. Is there a second Is there a second? Well, I'll second it then. Any further discussion? >> All right, Joel, why don't you call a roll? Uh, Warm Gerson,
>> no. >> Miller, >> no. >> Berg, >> yeah. >> Bipka, >> yes. >> Lava, >> no. All right. Motion does not carry. All right. Well, moving on to item B.
Consider approval of resolution 2025-59, a resolution approving the harvest pond fourth edition preliminary and final plan applications. Joel Ericson. All right. All right. Well, as part of this process, uh the applicant um submitted an application for the Harvest
Pond fourth edition preliminary and final plat. Planning Commission held the public hearing November 25th. Uh the motion failed due to a split vote. Um the subject property proposed to be plat 2.9 acres proposed to be block one
lots 1 through 10 and then out lot A, Hogs Ponds fourth edition. Lots 2 through 10 range in width from about 37 and a half to 73 and a2 ft and on average have a depth of about 130 feet. Uh front yard setbacks proposed at 25,
rear yard at 30 and sideyard setbacks at five. Uh BJB Holdings intends to sell these lots to a developer builder that would build the homes on them. Uh he does not have any intention to uh build the single family lots as he is a
multifamily home builder. Staff reviewed the submitts and the applicant complied with um city code 152.21 and 152.22 which are required data for preliminary and final plats.
As far as fiscal impact to the city um public hearing staff time and um those fees were paid for out of the escrow provided by the developer. Alternatives would be to not approve the proposed resolution. uh or revised as deemed necessary. And then included with
staff's report are the land use applications, city code 152.21 and 152.22, um the preliminary and final platin exhibit and then uh the city engineers review of of the plats and then also
resolution 2025-59. >> Should we be approving this now that we now that the tax abatement didn't move forward? Well, I think developer said previously that he's going to close on the land and try to try to make it happen. So, I I
guess Brian, it's up to you if if if you want to proceed. I guess I took it as you did. >> Um, you just pull the next two items. table. >> All right, I need a motion. Motion to table. >> Motion by Worm Gerson.
>> Second. >> Second by Palava. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> All opposed. All right. Item C. I need a motion. >> So move. >> I have a motion by Palava. >> Second. >> Second by Viller. Any further discuss? >> The table.
>> That is the table. >> The table. >> Yeah. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> All opposed. All right. Thank you, Brian. Presentation of an executive summary for
a potential hotel in the city of Londil and discuss next steps. Uh Joel Ericson. All right. get through about 60 pages here. Well, thank you, mayor, members of the council. Um,
uh, staff was contacted by Chan Johnson of Market Point to meet to discuss the possibility of a hotel being constructed in Lonsdale. uh Wdale was re recommended to him by um Lisa Watson of Quickrip and us working
with them through the approvals of their project which will start next April or May. Um Mayor Berg and myself met with Chan Johnson and George Jansen recently to discuss the possibility of a hotel and other economic development possibilities. Uh discussion focused
essentially on what would be contained in in the presentation. um additional conversation focused on if not a hotel, possibly other businesses to increase uh economic development in town. Uh if the council is interested in pursuing this, the next step would be to
have a feasibility study completed to determine the need, if any, and if so, number of rooms. Um and both are are here tonight to give the presentation. I don't know if you have anything else you want to >> Jan. George, you're up. Welcome to the
hot seat. It's a tough act to follow. >> Yeah. >> Um, Mayor Councel Monzo, um, thank you for this opportunity to uh just a quick um presentation of what we do, give a face
to a name of of what we Okay, >> do. So, you've all got hard copies of this. So, we're going to go through it fairly quick. um at any time or just stop, ask questions. That's kind of what this is. We're not we're not going to
dive deep too in uh into the weeds. Um sitting there listening to, you know, the folks of Lonsdale and council. Um it uh it's very refreshing because obviously we work with a lot of cities and
there's not a lot of council you know meetings we go to that have this many people sitting that are engaged in matters of the city. So I commend you guys on that. So um so we're just going to run through this really quick. Um,
like Joel said, um, we were put on to your city by Quick Trip. um in the presentation it will I live up in Nisa Brainard area base area and I'm doing a development up there and that's how I
got introduced to Lisa and with meeting with her um she had nothing but high regards from the city that you guys are proactive development and that so that that's why I reached out to to
Joel and and the first meeting with, you know, Tom and Joel went really well and so now now we're here. So, um, table of contents pretty, uh, this kind of, this is George and I's company,
Market Point. Um, we're in real commercial real estate, uh, development. Um, really focused on the hotel side of it, hotel financial institute. side there will will show like uh the
team or how we come into a city or come into a project how we put our team together. It's our team that's our inoff team and then how we collaborate with other
companies and organizations to you know we come in and build a hotel is you know we've got a plan. So, um, George, you want the hospitality center, the team side of it? >> Yeah, we'll try to I know it's been a long day for everybody. Our day started
at about 6:30 in the morning. We had a good meeting down in Jackson, Minnesota, and came from there to here. But, uh, one, I appreciate it taking time to listen to us. We try to move through this presentation as quickly as possible. Uh like Chance
said, really what we're here to do is is to help justify the production or the drafting of a feast feasibility study. Um is that's the tool
that we use we put in front of banks to find out whether this is a viable project. So we need this study to create the data that fills the performance that we use to assess the different projects in different communities. So I'm going to move through this really quickly
because I'll drop hand it off to Chan and he can hit more detailed description on the feasibility study. This is the our team is really I use the three-legged stool um is our team is made up of market
point which is commercial real estate developer blue sky which is manages about 1819 hotels and design wise which does the design of the human on the hotels in addition to that is is we've got collaborative partnerships with with
different organizations throughout the state of Minnesota it's architects it's construction companies management companies. We try to build a team around the project, not try to build a project around the team. So, um,
and I'll try to move through this quick is, uh, FFN, uh, it's my brother David's company, and we, we tie into them with about half the projects we work on. They they design, they procure, they do the installation.
They manage the project and they manage the construction. Uh we're here uh the hotel we recommend for this community would be a grand state hotel. It's we've done in Iowa and
Johnston Iowa Valley South Dakota. So again, although we're recommending grand staples for this project is we we partner with all the national flags. Um just get a sense of just some of the numbers there off to the side. Again,
we're also leaving three hard copies here and we've left a zip drive with a soft copy on it. So that allows you if you have any interest or questions on what we're presenting it is that information will be available.
Management uh in in this case we're recommending Blue Sky for the management company. Uh they manage currently manages this at 17 hotels. Uh I believe eight of those are Grand State hotels.
NE uh he's the president of loose sky blue sky management. Here's uh kind of a quick snapshot of the portfolio of some of the projects we've worked on. Um the top one is running acus hotel. It's still a grand
state hotel but it doesn't look like a grand state hotel. uh it's tied to the casino is completely different. It's one of the reasons that we recommend Grand State is they offer the flexibility. If I'm going to go in and do a Marriott, they're going to hand me a package and tell you that's how do it. So, in the
smaller communities like this, we can we can uh we have the flexibility, the desire of what what's going on in the community. You'll see we'll talk about the hotel we're currently doing down in Lake Iowa. Uh in addition to hotels, we also do a
lot of printing with banks. This is a snapshot view of some of the products we uh again you can see the uh uh these are some of the active products that we're currently working on. This is a uh although everything's moving forward on it, it's a concept on paper down clear
Iowa. If some of the if you know the history in Clear Lake, it's where the music died. It's where the big bopper and and Richie Valley and they took off with Clear Lake in a plane and the plane crashed and they all died. So, little bit of history
for us people that have been around for a long time. Um but you you'll see this if you look at this, you'd never think that's a grand state hotel. we're trying to do is reflect the the look and the image of the old hotel that burned down in 1922. So unique project uh one we're
really excited about. We're looking to break ground in March this year. Uh these are some of the other active projects. Um Chquat um like I said you know how
that quick trip grand state major medical will be going in there sock center um that one right next to Walmart uh we just opened up a tractor supply uh there's a grand stay we've got a
owner that owns a hotel and a restaurant so that might be a kind of a combo not inside of each other stand alone They typically work better restaurant, the hotel,
couple other restaurants, banks. These are just some quick slides of grand state, the franchise itself. Typical breakfast bar lobby area. Some typical room layouts.
for the feasibility study. Um this whole thing will be you know just we like to come in and we like to partner with the city you know this is a say team but that's really what it is
it's a it's a it's a project and what we like to you know ask the city is um for the for the feasibility study. And what that does, and this is u just a an
intro or the table of context of a first couple pages of a of a feasibility study. Typically, they're around 60 to 70 pages of information. They take about two months to acquire this information. This is a lot of data
for a city, for a, you know, a city that wants to grow because somebody coming in as a developer or somebody that wants to do something, there's information in here that
is needed for, you know, financial institution, banks. Um, gives you some information just to see if it pencils out. literally I mean to see and also as a city uh we can talk here and you
might want a hotel. This might tell you that you know what it ain't going to work here. So I mean that's good economics to say before we get too big into the weeds. They're buying dirt doing all this study. This kind of gives you a little glimpse of
crystal ball and As far as we, you know, it's kind of it's kind of, you know, the start of the partnership of doing a project of this typical hotel build. Um, I think I think
we got another 54 rooms, you know, you're going to be 10 to 12 million this bill. So, I mean, that's a substantial amount of money. So, these feasibility studies
around 9 to 10,000 range. But again, there's a lot of information there that is useful to a city, not just a developer. You know, there's, you know, if you can read that, but um again, a lot of
exhibits, a lot of good information that comes from the study. >> Without a study, we take that study and we go in front of the bank to try to secure a bank partner that'll finance the project. It's what we use to go in
front of potential investors as well on the project. So, um it it's a tool that we need to to move forward with project Chan said probably 20 to 25% of them
come back and say we don't recommend doing a hotel here. So we need that feasibility study to to justify moving forward if that makes sense. >> I have a question. Once the feasibility study is completed, what is the duration that it's good for? Like you say, okay,
well all the data that you're talking about, you usually are finding it's good for 18 months, a three-ear period. >> Great question. So you know we're going into cities co that so any any feasibility study done
in that time frame no good. So about that 18 twoyear because things change in the city so or in the region that play you know you got a big a big employer that comes into town changes it. So
great question I mean that's so we we've got them we're working with cities that ask that same question. Hey, we've got one. It's from 2018. What you can do is you go back to whoever did it first and can
>> benchmark against. >> Well, yeah, they can update it. It isn't so much work to get to curtains because there I mean you'll have people here on site looking pulling data. A lot of that data is you know already pulled so they
can just kind of update it. So cost wouldn't be as original cost. Does that make sense? >> So good question. >> A lot of just it is a lot of it dictated by how much change has happened in the community or how much change happened in
the industry. Co turn the industry upside down in India. There's Jan said any study that was done in 2020 isn't going to be good today. So uh and clearly we did three studies. We did one before CO, we did it one after CO, then
they waited like two years, and we did another one just this year. >> Uh this is just a kind of a a quick summary list of how our process works, you know, um market analysis
can't see it. And then here's just again not diving down to specifics, but it shows you that this is how we play it out. You know, there's who's in charge of what. Um, so nothing gets, you know, slipp between the weeds and that there
it big thing it does. It eliminates a lot of finger pointing like, well, you're supposed to do this, this, and this this type of matrix, you know, between the designwise, market point or the general general contractor. It lays
lays those tasks out. Um this is kind of I think from kind of the base as as far as grand state goes. This would be like the base size threetory 54 room grand state. Now, the feasibility study might come
back and you might add to the room count, lower the room count, but that's kind of where your This is your block of clay, your square block. So, that's kind of what I said at um there was an acreage on there, two and a half acres
typically question that. So if it comes back, let's say that you would have that block of paper for 52 rooms. If the city then had a question like maybe we started off
with 30 rooms, could you add more on later on after the >> another great question >> residents could see that there was a need here and that we needed to grow in this capacity? >> Um great question. Uh where I would say no because it goes back to your performer. So if you go you build that
perform up it's based on 54 rooms the occupancy to cash flow debt service all that so that's the easiest way to say it >> again just kind of a a list of how things start to progress
next step if you know the feasibility start locations in town. Next act is our is our team between designwise and market point. So, >> okay, we try to keep it quick.
I know it's been a long day for everybody and and uh but um right now we may not have the all questions because it's a work in progress and we're hoping that you'll approve moving forward with the feasibility study and and uh at that
point we we'll have a much more educated response in terms of what what the community could support. >> The only thing I want to add was back there was maybe some confusion might have to tweak that slide George is designwise comes in and when it says
construction manual construction we're just doing the side that side kind of. So, typically in a small town like this, uh we'll have a a general contractor that knows how to build hotels. They build it for that's what they do, but
they hire local sellers. That's what they do. So, and a lot of that gets, you know, orchestrated into that type. So, there's a lot of local contractors that participate in this. We
might have we might see a GC out there that's maybe from the metro, but because they can make sure it's done, right? So, you have a site set for this. >> Yep. Um I think there was some talk
here. >> Yeah. In the C2 district. >> C2. >> Yeah. Okay, >> that's on that 19. >> Okay, >> I'll give you that location. >> Any other questions? >> Um, to be clear though, um, it
this is, uh, you know, just a run-of-the-mill conversation about the hotel. Um but then it's the market analysis feasibility study and then uh once that comes back it's uh then trying to find a good location. But right now
our only only zoning district really to that would look good for you guys would be that 12.6 acres somewhere on there. But >> yeah I mean you know we've all been to different cities and stay in hotels. They're not put anywhere you can't find
them. You put them where you can see them, you get to them, and they're around the other parts of the cities. >> Okay. Well, thank you, Jane. Thank you, George. >> Thank you. >> Uh Scott, I'll throw this at your way.
>> Uh no, I reviewed it. Uh and then just having the little bit of narration, uh helps fill in some of the blanks. So, that's all I have right now. >> I appreciate that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, council. Thank you, mayor. Thank you, city. >> And again, we've got some hard copies up here. Uh we left uh
they've got a zip drive with a soft copy on it. We're going to leave some business cards here. If you got any questions, you think of something tomorrow, just give us a call. >> Brian, do you got anything you want to add? >> Yeah. Um just a couple quick questions. Who does the feasibility study?
>> We sent Joel a list of different companies that we work with. >> Okay. So there's it's it's not you guys doing it. It's an outside firm. >> Great. Another great question. The reason we ask a couple different reasons we ask the city to do it is one starts a a partnership relationship you know in
this but also uh a third party does it. So when uh the banks or it's not coming from us because if it came from us we could be kind of biased. This is a nonbiased type. >> Okay. And then uh question another
question I have and Joel maybe this is a question for you. Um the EDA is currently slated to conduct a feasibility study more general of what
businesses are needed in in Lndale. So we've already got that kind of in the works. >> Okay. >> Could that cover >> maybe. >> Okay. So, I think maybe what might not be a bad idea is if we take this
discussion to the EDA and maybe kind of have a better idea like have you guys come to one of our EDA meetings. Absolutely. >> Here's the study that the EDA's already approved and that we're we're working on figuring out who's going to do that study because it's already budgeted for. >> So, if we've got something already
budgeted, I would hate to have us spend another $10,000 on something, you know, why would we reinvent the wheel for already doing something? And the great point is if we dive into that, that company pay for a few extra bucks can give us hotel, you know what I mean?
Instead of maybe it's extra grand or something, >> right? Right. >> That robust. >> Yeah. I think maybe instead of, you know, trying to decouple this conversation from that EDA conversation, it might be a good place to start with that.
>> Yeah, K. I was just going to mention we already talked about a feasibility study, so I was wondering about just tying them together. So, he already talked about it. >> That's fine. >> Jamie, >> I'm good. >> All right, Ch. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you, George. >> All right. Discuss and consider approval of a contracted service uh for social media services proposals. Uh Joel Ericson. Thank you, mayor, members of the council. Um, uh, at the November 13th
council meeting, uh, the council approved the, uh, proposed uh, request proposals for social media services. basically consisted of minimum scope is uh two posts per week on Facebook um posts in
Google business slideshow video and then one on-site >> one on-site um business visit video uh the consultant would coordinate directly with um city staff to schedule video recording sessions or the business
itself um provide approve for the video for review and comments and then provide monthly stats and statistics. Proposals were due February or I'm sorry, Friday, December 5th. Uh we currently contract with West Brack
Marketing who chose not to submit a proposal uh digital pioneer and then um Sophie and Stephen Orluck. The mayor and myself interviewed the two firms Friday, December 12th. Uh both firms interviewed well, stated the same things uh were
important such as less narrative uh utilizing videos, emojis uh for attention and uh the quality of the video and audio. Um both firms are able to provide the service level expected by the city. Uh based off of review of the
proposals, uh Orluck had more years of experience. Digital Pioneer had more experience working with nonprofits and governments. Orluck meets the requirements of the timeline and deliverables where digital pioneer provided a defined weekly approach.
Staff or staff qualifications were scored as equal. The budget digital pioneer their proposal submitted at $1,700 a month. Uh Orluck proposed $1,000 per month uh at the start of the contract. and then both uh vendors
provided references. So, I know this was sent out earlier, so the council had ample time to to review it and um with our contract ending at the end of of the year if we want to continue with contracted social media services, we'll have to make a decision
tonight or real shortly. >> All right. Thank you, Joel Brian. Um, I'm gonna defer to you, mayor. You interviewed him. >> I brought it up to council because I couldn't make a decision.
But we got to make one tonight. >> Yeah. No, I hear you. I just I I >> Either one of them can do the job. It just uh >> Both are local, correct? >> Yes. Both of them live in Lawndale. Uh Yeah.
I don't have any questions right now. >> All right, Carrie. >> All right, so we've been paying 550 a month, right? Correct. For with Westre. >> Um, who else has access to make posts on our socials like city staff? Anybody?
>> Uh, Gabby the community development planner and myself. >> Um, >> and Okay, perfect. So, we only have 437 followers on our city page, and I was really hoping that would have increased
when since we are paying for a service for marketing. Um, and the proposals are double and pretty much triple what we're currently paying. Um, how does the RFP that we sent out compared to what the services were that we were getting
through West? How does that compare? uh it was some uh drafted to be the same. >> Okay. >> Then there was also additional um blogging and vlogging as well. >> Okay. And then do we have the capacity to to
just make simple posts in house um over the next year if we choose not to decide on continuing with social media for a while so that we can budget for it cuz we're looking at adding an additional $12,000
if we go with Orlook or you know more than that. Uh yeah, I don't if I mean we've you know been working on it for a year and um I don't see us stopping. So if we're not going to hire somebody, it'll be done in house. >> Okay.
>> All right. That's all I have for now. >> All right, Jamie. >> I'm all about saving money and that is an awful lot of money and it's always content. If you got somebody behind the camera that's going to be dry and not making anything that's eye-catching,
you're not going to get the clicks. And the few videos that did get the clicks, like my dad's video, that's cuz I ran it through our demographics at work when I was bored and quadrupled what we normally get for hits. So that 800 600 came from the feed mill this screwing
around with our demographics that we run our stuff through. So, we definitely need something different than what we're doing now. Do we need to spend $12,000 on it? Maybe, maybe not. Could we do it in house, get the same
results that we're getting now? Probably. We could probably even do a chain deal where they show it and the EADA isn't responsible for sharing each member of the ADA to two different Facebook groups. Chain sharing. Like
back in the 80s when we had chain calling, you start the telephone chain going. We could probably get more hits that way than what we're doing now. >> Anything would be better than this. >> All right, Scott.
>> Um I know I deal with uh uh companies that do this for my industry specifically. I mean $1,000 a month, that's kind of the going rate uh for uh for that. So, it's not outrageous um
based on what uh what's proposed there. I was disappointed that Res West didn't want to uh submit a proposal though because she's kind of started us all off and you know if we needed to I guess I I I didn't understand it what her
reasoning was to not uh want to continue. Uh were we were we asking for more than what the what she currently was doing or >> um no um Holly was very responsive um and you know I don't think it translated
into f followers but you know when we needed something posted and meeting deadlines and providing the information she was she was um she was right on it very responsive. >> Okay. I just it it you know I don't know I just don't know what her reasoning was
that that that's what uh you know question you know obviously she's got the uh you know with what we're currently paying that would have been a you know a slam dunk we know what we could do with it. Um, so but yeah, I know uh thousand bucks a month it's it's
expensive, but at the same time in the world of what it is, it's not. Um uh if we did go to doing it in house, uh if you I'm I'm be honest with you. I think that viewership and uh um content
I won't say it would suffer, but I mean we don't have the staff to do it. We don't have social media manager or anything like that to do it, you know. Um so, um little reluctant to just say, "Hey, let's uh let's just handle this in
house." Um and and at the same time while we're trying to grow the grow the breach. So, >> we don't have the tools either. We'd have to we would there would there'd be additional costs above and beyond staff time if we wanted to do this in house.
Um, you know, there's Jamie, I know you you mentioned whatever package you use. I guess I I didn't catch the name of it, but you know, we don't have the the graphics software. >> We don't have the cameras. >> We don't have the cameras. We don't, you know, I mean, we're talking about staff time to go out and film videos.
>> Um, you know, editing of those videos if that's what we're going to continue to do. So, there's additional cost above and beyond staff time for this. >> That's what I'm saying. If we just want to do static posts or, you know, a couple of, you know, Canva things or whatever, that's one thing. But, >> um, you know, if we're trying if we're
trying to grow our reach, that's inhouse is not the way to do it, >> right? Well, and keep in mind 3,000 is already budgeted from EDA for this. So, that's um right off the top is is within the EDA budget on this. So,
that number's there. I mean, it's already budgeted for next year. Um, you know, and ideally, if we have somebody who's good at this stuff, it's going to get outside of the city of Lndale. I mean, part of the whole concept here is to
drive interest into town, to get people to come in here, to move here, to develop here, to attract them to Lawdale. Um, you know, I mean, it works. I mean, I I see Andrew Rasmmanson over at Smoke
use social media to drive people from all over the state. Frankly, I see he gets people from all over the state and they come down specifically, hey, I saw your post on this. I saw your post on that. >> Tony Chu come down twice already. >> Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. And that's I
mean, you know, not everybody necessarily knows who who Tony Q is, but it had a big impact. I mean, I talked to Andrew after that hit social media and he saw a dramatic increase in his business traffic from all over the
state. So, social media does drive people down here if it's done correctly. >> All right. Well, entertain a motion. Well, I mean, somebody select one and make a motion. >> Motion's got to be for somebody, right?
Y >> um I guess a question for Joel, Tom, you guys. Since you talked to both of them, they're both qualified. Both would do a great job. It's hard to make a decision between the two is what I'm hearing from you guys, but is there any
concerns that you would have one way or the other in general? I mean, you don't necessarily have to say. >> I don't have any concerns. I know both can do the job. Um, the reason why I don't want to make a recommendation is
because I don't uh I don't know. It's two different price points. Well, technically three because of if you include what Holly had on there. >> Right. Right. >> Um, for me personally, Sophie and uh her husband had made a a career out of
streaming and then they afforded a house in Las Vegas off of streaming. So, they got pretty good. uh they were able to clip it and share it and get a lot of views from it and uh they detailed that and it was pretty uh successful for them. Um you know Kyle Malikica he has
worked with other cities as well uh with planning uh community events and then using the advertisement on there to to help bring in uh extra funding. Um, he's also got a drone. So then that way he can capture, you know, overheads of,
say, if you're showing off community days or you're showing off Founders Day or showing off uh that Willow Pond, you know, he can take all these videos and make a collab and then do a a year-end video, like a super nice high quality
video, uh, showcasing the city, which I think Londale does deserve to have. I know Montgomery has made a really nice one talking with business owners why Montgomery and um we don't have anything of of that nature. Um >> so well
>> we got one video with the drone footage that the EDA paid for. Was it last year or two years ago? >> Was that the one with scanner >> when it was constructing? >> Uh we did one with them. Correct. Yes. >> Yes. But I mean, you know, to constantly re-up it, you know, you'll have quick
trip next year and a lot of other things they're growing, right? >> So, I mean, it's really either or, however you guys want to do it. I mean, uh I I I know both can do the job.
>> Okay. >> And I I can also see us just not doing it, too. So, I mean, it's really council's decision. That answers the question, I guess. So, the answer is no. No red flags. >> No red flags. No. No. No. I And to
control the the media presence for the city, I I can trust both identities with it. So, a you know, where they both live, so it would be kind of hard for them to try to sell the city out to another country or
something, you know. But, uh, >> I'm not worried about him selling us out to another country. >> I'll make a motion to approve Sophie and Steven Orl for the $1,000 a month. >> All right. Motion by Palapa.
>> I'll second. >> Second by Miller. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> Opposed. All right. Motion carries. And then uh on to one of our last agenda items for uh new business. It is to
accept the resignation of Haley Van Hublin and advertise for full-time police officer uh Chief Jason Schmidtz. Thank you, Mayor, members of the council. Well, I received an email from Haley Friday night on December 19th, 2025,
which included a letter of resignation where she states her last day of employment will be December 21st, 2025. Halo was employed with Lonzo Police Department for approximately 13 months. You know, again kind of with that uh I wish her the best of luck in the future. And that includes her letter of
resignation. And I don't know if you have any questions regarding that at this time. >> All right. Thank you. Sorry. >> Why such short notice of like two days? >> I don't know.
>> Okay. Just curious. I just I met with her Wednesday night and I don't know checked my email Saturday morning and there it was. So, >> all right, Jamie, >> I'd just like to thank her for service
to her community. I know she's had a couple big exciting deals in their 13 months with the community and uh one night she actually scared the crap out of me. When a police officer comes flying into your parking lot at 50 miles an hour,
jumps out of the car and says, "Show me your hands." You kind of notice something. But thanks, Haley. >> All right, Scott. >> I have nothing. >> Brian, >> yeah, I've heard nothing but great things from residents that I've spoken to about Haley. So, uh, it's
unfortunate, sad to to hear that, uh, she's leaving us. Um, do you think it's worth throwing out to her or would she be interested in an exit interview with the HR committee just to maybe try to get a feel for is there something we could have done
better to keep her? >> Um, >> I guess if we asked the worst you can say is no thank you. >> I could, but it would be my recommendation not to. >> Okay. I'll trust your judgment on that. I'm just be curious to to know why
because it's unfortunate. Haley's gone to a lot of big calls and uh I I do not envy at all what she had to have gone through on some of these calls. >> No, she has. >> And uh I give her a lot of credit cuz the thing that I've been told and and
Jamie confirmed that she would yell at at grown men and scare them. >> She she had a really good command. So >> she had a a loud bark. Yeah, she did uh pretty good uh for the city of Lonzo and I appreciate all of her
time and and uh what she's done. And um you know what I'll do is I'll make the motion to look for uh the replacement. >> Do we need two motions for this? >> Yes. >> Well, okay. Motion to approve her resignation. >> I'll second it. >> Second by mailer. Any further
discussion? All in favor? >> I opposed. All right. Now motion to uh accept the recommendation of let me make sure I got this >> advertise for the position >> recommendation to advertise for a
full-time police officer >> second. >> Second by Jamie Vipka. Any further discussion? >> All in favor? >> I. All opposed. >> All right. Thank you, Chief. >> All right. Thank you. We'll have fun during the interview process again.
>> Uh department and council reports. Jason Malikica, I'll start with you. >> Yeah, thank you, mayor, and members of the council. Um, we have started the design for the 2026 Milan overlay project. Um, and that's underway. I've submitted draft plans and a cost
estimate to staff for their review and we'll be working towards a final bid package here towards the end of the year. We're we've been progressing on the wastewater treatment facility evaluation as well as the wellhead protection plan part two. Um, and we
also held a kickoff meeting for the water tower sighting study this last week with Bolton M staff and city staff as well. >> That's all I have. >> All right. Thank you, Jason. Joe Dormfeld.
>> I've been uh working on those things Jason just mentioned with him. We had a public works meeting last week. Um the trucks and snowplow equipment are getting some much needed washes and baths and maintenance, grease, cutting edges, things of that nature. Uh
performed the some maintenance on some air raators at the wastewater treatment plant. We had some troubles with one. Keeping an eye on it, making sure it's uh electrical is all good to go. Uh performance reviews, annual reviews for all the public works guys were held this
last week. And this past weekend, I've received multiple calls um from people all over Burnsville, Savage, Northfield, Prior Lake um commending our Trita hockey ice
rink. Um all of the cities I just stated, their ranks are not up and going and ours is. So um great job to the guys and being diligent and keeping that going. So >> nice. >> All I got for you guys. >> All right. Thank you, Joe. Uh Joel,
>> uh well, quick turnaround from the last council meeting. Um worked on a lot of the things that were on the council agenda. Um attended a business visit to scan air filter with some EVA members, the mayor, myself. Um be working on 2016
schedule for our January 8th, 2026 public hearing and uh wrapping up performance reviews. >> All right. Thank you, Brian. What do you got? >> Um, as Joel mentioned, we had a meeting at Scan Air Filter with some of the EDA
members. So, that was a a good visit. So, thank you to to uh the ownership over there for having us in showing us their business, what they do. Um, you know, just kind of getting a pulse of the uh current businesses. So, that was a good meeting. Um, also last Wednesday
night, we had the library board meeting. Um, biggest thing to come out, I won't go through everything cuz there's always a lot. Um, STEM kits are all available now. Uh, they have a 4 plus, 8 plus, 12 plus age grouping for the STEM kits. So,
those are those are popular. Uh, I was actually at the library today because squirrel popped a transformer at my house and my power went out. So, I needed a place to work. So, I was working over at the library and I heard a mom come in with her young kid and just how excited that kid was that uh
they had those those STEM kits available and they were talking about just the different options of things that these STEM kits offer. So, I think it's a really cool thing these special collections that uh the library staff's put together. Um biggest thing is there's going to be a winter reading program much like the summer reading
program. It's going to run from January 12th through February 28th both for adults and kids. uh just like the summer reading program. Encourage people to take advantage of that. Join it. It's super easy. It's fun. It it's it's a good way to encourage
reading. You know, uh we as parents, you know, my all my kids are older, but um as parents, if you participate in these things, your kids are going to be more likely to participate in these things. And it's cool. It's it's a lot of fun. It's a good community event. Um and then there'll be various events throughout
the period of time that the uh um winter reading program goes on. Book sale will be on the 19th through the 21st this year. Um so after the new year, everyone please be on the lookout. The library is going to be asking for donations of
books for the book sale. Um and then the strategic planning they did the study studies in. There will be a meeting of the stakeholders. The library board and some other um stakeholders within the the library universe will be meeting on
the 14th um to go through survey results and um do some threeear fiveyear strategic planning uh EDA also met last week along with the uh the site visit.
Um, you know, I think the big thing that came out of that is, you know, as we mentioned tonight, um, the there is a study that we're already doing. So, um, you know, again, I think with this discussion of the hotel before we as a
council, I think before we we bring that up to talk about any additional expenditure, let's make sure that that study doesn't cover it first. Um, and then I want to personally thank Laura Prigy for her years of service on the EDA. uh she's been a member of the EDA
for over a decade. Um and her term was up and she decided she was not going to reapply. Um her work schedule's gotten a lot more hectic with travel, so she made the decision not to reapply. So, thank you, Laura, for your years of service. I know I thanked her on on Thursday, but I
want to say it again. Um it's been good to work with her. >> That's all I got. >> All right, Perry. The only thing I have is a shout out to Lynette and the Lawndale liquor store for their annual uh holiday event on the 13th. It was really nice. Um good turnout and nice
job as usual. No other reports yet because we don't meet again in town next year. >> All right. Thank you. Uh Jamie, >> um we in planning and zoning, we had a couple things. We sent uh off streetet
parking loading and access to recommendation for public hearing next month. One thing to note, next month's meeting is going to be delayed a week because it's a national holiday on the normal Monday. And then we went in to review uses
for all business, industrial, and commercial zoning districts. Corey brought in a chart which greatly sped it up because we did the entire thing in an hour and a half. In the previous meeting, we did one section in an hour.
So, thanks Corey. And we also have a public hearing for repealing a cannabis ordinance next month. With the current cannabis ordinance we came up with, we get to repeal the old one. That's all I got.
>> All right. Thank you, Scott. >> Uh, both Joel and Brian pretty much covered the EDA. Um, so I guess I just would also like to say thank you to Laura Prigy for years of service and providing leadership to the EDA for the
number of years she has. So that's all I >> All right. Yeah. I want to thank Laura, too. I'm excited for your new EA member. uh interviewed her and um she's coming in with a lot of experience and uh very passionate person. So, I'll be excited
to see that recommendation come through first of January. Um I want to thank the staff for all the time that you guys have put in uh with this conversation in regards to the apartment. I know it's been a ton. Um and then I want to thank all of you for being here. Um you know,
this is just how things work. you know, we make sure that there's checks and balances and, you know, some things don't go the way you want it, some things go the way you want it. Um, that's just how it works. But to ignore the dialogue, uh, that's not appropriate. Um, so I want to thank all
of you for making the time of being here and, uh, voicing your concerns. Um, the other thing is is I want to wish all of you a merry Christmas and a happy new year. Please take care. Uh, my family got hit with the flu. My tummyy's a little achy. So, please
tell me. No, I'm okay. I'm not contagious. I promise. But I hope all of you stay safe and healthy and God bless. So, um I'll seek an adjournment. >> A motion to adjourn. >> Second. >> Motion
to start over. Motion by Miller, second by uh Wormcersian. Any further discussion? All in favor? >> All opposed? All right. Thanks again and have a good night everybody.