Good. All right. like to uh call this meeting to order. Uh planning and zoning commission meeting uh Monday, March 16th at 700 p.m. Uh let's go ahead and rise and do the pledge of allegiance.
>> I alian to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Before we do roll call, I'd
like to uh uh bring up the resolution of 2026-17. Uh it's a resolution appointing planning and zoning commissioning member. Um would like to welcome Reagan Anderson to the planning and zoning commission
board. So, welcome aboard. >> All right. Uh roll call, Mr. Chair. Uh Mike Harding >> here, >> Mike Ko >> here, >> Reagan Anderson >> here, >> Jeremy Brainer >> here, >> and council member Bipka >> here. >> Uh Tim Cash notified me yesterday saying
that he would not be attending the meeting tonight. >> Okay, so um next step is the approval of agenda. Has everybody had a chance to review it? Any edits,
adds? Nothing? No. >> Okay. Let's take a motion to approve the agenda. >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> Motion by M Mike uh Harding. Oh no. Yes. Mike Harding.
>> Seconded by Mike Kanye. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Anybody say Mike? >> Careful. >> So now approval of the minutes. So consider approval of the me of the
minutes from February 23rd, 2026 and then also the regular meeting and February 25th, 2026, the special meeting. >> Uh motion to approve. >> So Mike Harding >> second. >> Seconded by Mike Ku. All in favor?
>> I. None opposed. Carried forward. All right. Uh there's no public hearings, so we're going to move on. Um there is nobody in attendance, so presentation of citizen petitions and
comments. Um there is none for the approval of the consent agenda. There is no old business. New business is to review and discuss ordinance 126-341 and ordinance amending ordinance 2025-332
and ordinance amending city code 153.079 signs. >> Uh thank you Mr. Chair and good evening planning and zoning commission. Uh for uh the members that served on the committee last year into this year this one's familiar. Uh we did go through
this one um recently uh with the dyn and focus on the dynamic billboard and now we're circling back to do a holistic approach. Um at the January 8th, 2026 city council meeting, the council requested the commission to review and
discuss ordinance 2025 332, an ordinance amending city code 153.079 signs and the fees associated with replacement signs. Uh the current replacement sign fee is $102.50.
Uh 6250 goes into the uh uh the review from the building inspector, an on-site inspection, and then $40 administration fee. Uh that's uh paid directly to the city for the review um of the
application. uh which was and that fee was approved at the ordinance or in ordinance 2026 336 an ordinance amending ordinance 2025 329 2020 2020 2022 25 fee schedule page
7 on July 21st uh 2025 the commission scheduled a public hearing for ordinance 2025 3332 uh and the recommended changes at at that time uh are laid out in bullet points here uh billboard signs are allowed as an accessory use of a lot
only in CI zoning districts. Billboard shall not exceed 300 square ft per side with a maximum of two sides. Any part of a billboard must be set back a minimum of 10 ft from the property boundaries. And the billboards shall maintain radial
spacing of not less than uh 1,500 uh feet from between billboards. As you can see, we have a clear example along Highway 19 um with the Circle City um outdoors dynamic billboard. Uh
electronic or digital billboard signs are permitted as a part of the uh loud signage. Signs may be illuminated. The minimum period of changing messages on the electronic digital billboard in 6 seconds. Billboards must be at least 300 ft from a church or school. Electronic
or digital billboards are prohibited from showing video. Uh existing digital signs, current digital display displays with the city may stay in place upon the passing of the ordinance and be considered long legal non-conforming
uses. They may continue to operate at their current fashion, but may be expanded in a size of location. Uh the commission considered approval of ordinance 2025332 and the council adopted it on July 31st,
2025 um at the city council meeting. So uh Mr. Chair, uh I have a few attachments in uh in the staff report. Uh the first attachment is the current ordinance
uh as we just talked about 2025 3332. And then I also included the the July 3rd, 2025 redline version uh is also in this packet so you can see the work that we've previously accomplished
um last year. So Mr. Chair, uh we want to take a holistic approach here. Uh I could do a lot of reading to this group tonight or we could just start off with uh planning commission. Is there any recommended changes that we want to dive into first?
I think we could do that. Yeah, we do that bit where um we review what we've changed unless there's anything that any other edits anybody wants to make. >> Staff have any edits they'd like to make
before we jump into it. >> Uh we Joel, the city administrator and I were talking beforehand. Uh there's no recommendations offhand. I know that uh there was a mention of there is just some silly stuff in there, meaning that
approval of a drive-thru um uh menu. Um I I have not approved or I have not had to approve any Chick-fil-A drive-through menu content lately. So anyways, um there there's nothing off
the end. It is pretty much working on administrative side. I know that uh with the the recent review uh that came in was for Quick Trip. Uh but that was a slam dunk because part of their uh site plan review that signed package was in
there and they were in accordance of this ordinance. Meaning uh the brick stonework uh requirements of 50% of the sign face uh both their monument and freestanding signs made uh fell into the
requirements. their awning of course uh with the 30% um of the actual awning surface. So as on our side uh like I said or on my side uh this ordinance is working.
>> Okay. >> Agreed. So, just moving forward. I'm in the attachment uh just your regular your first attachment ordinance 2025 332. We're going uh through the review of this. So, I'm on page number one, gentlemen. Uh that's with the findings
the city council as follows. Um I'm hoping that you guys had a chance to take a look at this. Um, like I said, uh, I'm not planning on reading this whole ordinance to everybody tonight. I know I have audience out there that
likes to track my repeated words. So, we we jump in the findings, gentlemen. Uh, the the city council here by finds the following. Uh, that's page one. We get into page two of definitions.
Uh remember that we recently changed the dynamic billboard definition to uh not exceed 300 square ft. Uh the one that we have along Highway 19 that's at 300 square ft
falls into that into that requirement. Um we're going through the types of signs. the awning that um that one does come up downtown on Main Street uh for replacement.
Um but as far as we we get into a large variety of definitions here, >> you're missing one for standalone signs. All right. So, hang on. Are we ready to go to page three here? So, administrative awning, uh, balloon sign,
changeable copy sign. So, I'm getting waiting for I'm hang on, council member. I'm getting to the S's here. As you can see, uh, the D's, directional sign, dynamic billboard sign, um, flashing sign, freestanding sign, ground
sign, height of sign, illuminated sign. Uh, page four, monument sign, non-commercial speech definition, off- premises sign, on premises messaging. >> J, >> uh, freestanding sign. Is that what you're looking at? Then it would be your
standalone. Are they the same definition or because later on in the ordinance it references standalone sign specifically. Oh. All right. Uh page four. Um we just covered that.
Uh page five continued on with definitions here right about stringer and then I'm saying as council member said uh there's a stringer definition at the bottom and that's if we want to add
standalone sign to that definition or to that list. >> Yeah. I'm wondering if we don't just add verbiage to the freestanding sign like Mike had mentioned that it's freestanding slashstandalone.
Just a second meaning to it. >> Yeah. >> Freestanding slash dash standalone. >> Stand alone. >> Yeah. >> Because I would say that the definition of that one kind of fits the same. >> Yeah. If the use later on falls under then that basically sank and then that
saves time having to go back through the whole thing. Where Jamie, do you know where that is where it says standalone? >> Let's see. Off the top of my head, no. But I know in design standards that it said all freestanding signs must be 50% or
standalone signs must be 50% brick. I'm assuming they meant monument signs in that part and not pole signs because a sign on a pole 50% brick would be >> interesting. Yeah. >> Oh, we actually require that. You may
have and the billboard's going to have it as well. Yep. Correct. >> Uh yes, when the Lawn Sale Food and Fuel when they did their sign replacement, uh that was a requirement to have that brick uh and or that brick work done on
the base of the of the pool sign. Uh they complied with that um and met that requirement. And like their city administrator just said, it's the same thing that applies to >> Casey's >> Casey's
and then the and then the uh dynamic side here on Highway 19. >> So brick along the base. Correct. All right. >> I mean that's the supportive structure. >> Okay. >> Yeah. It's strictly aesthetics.
>> It's strictly aesthetics. >> Okay. Okay. Anything that requires a footing, then it moves into the building inspector uh for the building inspector to do evaluation review. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> So, for example,
uh that the dynamic sign value $300,000 that's based upon the valuation of the application that sign. But otherwise, are we I don't want to get hung up here, but are we back on page three here? Are we doing
freestanding sign back slash standalone sign? I don't want to miss >> I'm fine with that, but I, you know, I definitely want to look at that as we encounter the verbiage later on to make sure that we're not >> construing that and messing that up. >> I'd make them separate since it's alphabetical.
>> Yeah. Go with that recommendation. Okay. >> Yep. All right, moving to page six. Suspended sign, temporary sign, and as you could see, the wall sign, window sign.
Uh, getting into the the nuts and bolts of this. A permit required. No sign shall be shall be erected, altered, or reconstructed, maintained, or moved in the city without first securing a permit from the city. uh all the applications that I have received, everybody's been
very good to work with. The content of the sign shall not be re reviewed or considered in determining whether to approve or deny a signed permit. Application for the permit shall be writing address to the issuing authority and shall contain the
following information. Name, addresses, owners, display, structure and property, addresses which any signs are to be erected. um lock block um complete set of color plans. Uh even
for Shields Lake um Cheesecake uh business downtown, they submitted it. They submitted a beautiful or a very nice illust image uh from a vendor which is makes on the review side
much easier or more efficient. uh the market value of the sign that's required in the application, type of the sign, building sign, monument sign, uh etc. Uh certification by applicant indicating
the application complies with requirements. If the proposed sign is within the federal, state or county rightway, the application shall be accompanied by the proof of the applicant to obtain the permit from the state for the sign. uh such other information as the
administrator shall require to show full compliance with the subchapter and all the laws and ordinance in the city. All right. The application is not complete until all the foregoing information is provided along with the payment of applicable fees. Gentlemen, this relates
to every permit that comes in. That's standard. It shall be the duty of the administrator as his or her design upon the filing of the application for the permit to examine such plan specifications and other data and the premises upon which proposer will erect the sign.
Uh we get into exemptions. When do you not need a sign permit? Following sign shall not require a permit. These exemptions, however, shall not be constructed as reveal relieving the owner of the sign from the responsibility of its erection and
maintenance of compliance with the provisions of the section or other law or ordinance regulating the same. Signs erected by authorized government agencies, the changing of the display service on a painted or printed or changeable copy. Sign reader or
board signs. uh signs 6 feet or six square feet or less in size per service is permitted in this section. Uh I know the American Legion came in with a sign uh three square foot sign. American Legion reached out to me and said, "Hey,
do we need a sign permit for this?" And as I just read here, number three, no. and the American Legion do not need a sign permit for signs six square feet or less. Temporary and portable signage as
permitted in the section and then the sign area calculations. Um, as far as fees and permits shall be established by the ordinance, uh, that was stated earlier that is reviewed by the city council at at the first meet or in the
month of early June or January of each year. The city council proves these uh, violations of this se section is a misdemeanor. Each day that the violation continues is a separate offense. Uh moving on to page eight. Talk about
the maintenance inspections. Uh sign removal uh prohibited signs. This is where the planning and zoning commission uh made that recommendation.
uh cannot have uh signs exceeding more than 300 ft in in area uh within the city. Uh we get into signs in the site triangle eight bottom of page eight
extending uh page nine signs within the city rideway easements or publicly owned land. item on number three on page nine. On land exception signs posted by authorized government officials, signs approved by the city council, sandwich board signs located
within the central and limited business and temporary signs per subsection um o the projection signs per subse section L. Signs interfere interfering
signs are paint. Uh gentlemen, you can read the same thing here. People at home are going to get sick of my voice. Uh we get into the general standards. Uh like I said earlier, sign permits are required for all signs unless otherwise
stated in the section uh and established by the city council. we get into non-commercial speech signs, uh, substitution clause. On the bottom of page nine, it says, "A
beam of light shall not shine directly upon any part of a residence or into the street." Shouldn't that be neighboring residents? And uh what is your recommended changes? >> Neighboring residents >> where a sign illumin illuminated the
beam is light shall not shine directly upon neighboring residents. >> Yep. Go. Yeah. neighboring residence or onto the street. >> Mhm. >> All right. All my Christmas signs.
Page 10. Uh the owner, we're just uh talking about the owner of the any sign located within City Rideway shall be liable for any related bodily injury or property damage caused by the sign or signs location shall be
indemnify uh any uh and safe harmless the city its agents and representatives. So, Mike, if you put your sign up, uh, we get back into a setback for the free uh, freestanding sign. Setback should be at least 10 ft from the
property line within the central limited business zoning districts. Building sign should not only be located on the principal building on the lot. Do we need that? This is number eight on page 10.
Building signs shall only be located on the principal building on the lot. >> Feedback, gentlemen. I'd say allow it on any building on the lot because we might want to identify the buildings on the lot and putting a
sign on them would be okay. What if your principal structure is away from the major highway and your accessory structure is up against the main artery? >> So you're talking like rail 19,
>> rail 19, the feed mill because we have three primary buildings, the lumber yard being able to establish or putting another sign on one of their storage sheds. Oh yeah, Generations has got those buildings off the back. They mark all
those to tell you where to go. Kind of handy. >> All right. >> What's it? >> Yeah. So, it's already non-conforming. >> But I'm just saying it'd be nice to be able to allow him to just keep doing it. I mean, it's I don't think it's going to
hurt anything. >> I'd strike it. I think it makes sense. Nobody else in agreements. >> Yeah, I I'd >> right. We go with that recommendation. >> Do we want to allow freestanding signs
to encroach within a drainage utility easement? >> I would say no. >> No, >> probably not. >> We don't. We just deny a deck for being in the drainage utility ement of footing. >> Which one was that? I didn't >> uh seven >> seven.
>> No, no, no. Uh who uh what you said after that? Who who did we allow? >> Um no, we just denied a deck because they wanted to put a footing in the drain and utility easement. >> Oh, there. Okay, that's what I was asking. Thank you. >> Yeah, I wouldn't put anything in a
drainage. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, that's seven. freestanding signs shall not >> approach into a drainage or utility easement unless an easement agreement is. Yeah. >> So striking that last sentence.
>> Yep. >> Everything but that last one. >> All right. And then I just want to make sure that we're on the same page. Uh so we're striking number eight. Also, building sign shall only be located on the principal building on the lot. >> Correct. Y.
>> All right. All right. Uh, continuing down this page with number nine, we're talking about projecting signs. Uh, 10, window signage. The total window area on a building between ground level and the height of
the height of 8 ft shall not exceed 75% window coverage. Do we really need that? I'm just trying to think of a good example around town. >> Yeah, >> I know ours during 4 week gets covered
up pretty much 100% by all their artwork. And I don't know if the hardware store does it, but they used to allow the 4H kids to decorate their window, too. Well, that would be like Mac and Tunes, right? When they paint it, it's like
considered coverage. I don't think we've ever >> I think it's getting more to advertising and signage always. >> What if like a bar puts a bar sign up in the window and it covers, you know, most
of the window? >> Is that going to be a problem? Probably not. I mean, everybody's got >> a permit for it. >> Yeah. >> Usually be on the inside, right? >> Unless you do like the decals like the
Legion did where they had that back door that had the um film covering over it. That covered probably 95% of the window. I mean, is it really a big deal? Because it was a good point, Mike. Is this really
something that Are we going out and enforcing um window sign coverage? >> Nobody's really >> I know that um I have not received any calls on that. >> So, we can either leave it and have a reference point just in case it ever
needs to be in there. I would just leave it and nobody's enforcing it. It's not a huge deal right now unless it gets to be a problem. >> Agreed. right now. I mean, >> but I could tell you no, I'm not looking for the female. I'm not looking at uh
>> Damn it, Jamie 4 um >> uh temporary artwork of the kids. No. >> And honestly, if it's for good causes, anybody really going to complain? >> You could add in uh what it does is not include like this would not include, you know, artwork painted onto the windows,
specifically the bar on the inside, window decals. Um, continuing on, um, flags, uh, up to four flags may be displayed upon a lot. Each flag may not exceed 100 square ft.
>> Does that include residential? Cuz I'm just wondering >> that that includes include res. 400T flags on my yard. >> You have four flags in your yard. >> I can put four flags in my yard. >> I want to know if I can't get 100 foot
flags in my yard. >> Especially during campaign season. There's numerous uh lots in town that have four flags in them. >> Oh, sweet. >> Um, signs permitted in residential districts. >> I'm going to keep on moving, gentlemen.
>> Okay. >> Unless there's anything else. Nope. >> Page 11. We're on the top at seven. Park and playground signs. Uh signs permitted in commercial business and going to N signs permitted in commercial business and industrial
districts. Um this is the one I was talking about. One building sign per wall per street frontage. This is where the sign area is limited to 30% of the building face. That one is a key component of the application that comes in.
Do we need to limit it to one if they stick to the 30%. in instances where a business handles multiple things, like if the hardware store wanted to put a DeWalt sign in a Makita sign outside or
>> or if they wanted to advertise their gun section versus their hardware section. I >> mean, I would allow, you know, multiples limiting with the 30%. >> Mhm. >> I see. I get rid of the one sign.
>> Yeah. I'm more or less thinking of the buildings on Main Street with multiple tenants or multiple businesses. >> Yeah. I guess when I look at the sign ordinance, I'm thinking like the name of the business,
>> not Yeah. Not uh >> not another, >> you know, I mean, look at McInte's, you know, beverages at the store. Um, Lawndale Liquor, you know. Um, I guess that's what I'm looking thinking
of when I'm thinking a sign, >> right? >> I'm just thinking like say that Jace at some point at the hardware store decides to separate his gun business from the hardware store for whatever reason in the future, they come along and say the state says, "Okay, you can no longer
sell guns out of your store. You have to have a separate business for that." at blah blah blah. If he needs to put up two signs on the front of his building, would it be a bit I mean, is anybody really going to complain?
>> No, it's a matter of uh how many signs do you want to see on each building, >> right? >> Yeah. >> I guess that that's what it comes down to. Uh, Mr. Chair, where do you want to go with this one? >> Thinking.
Has it been a problem? >> No. >> Yeah. I'm almost thinking if it doesn't It hasn't been a problem. There's been no complaints. Maybe we leave it alone. >> And and as uh Joel mentioned, this is more of a this is a permanent sign. This
is the business sign that's going on the >> not advertisement of >> Y. Yeah. >> Just leave it. >> What about in the instance of the feed mill? If we wanted to put a FO feed sign and a Kent feed sign on the same side >> because we have two different feed
brands in house. still think it's not >> that be more advertising then >> I still think it's not your business name it's >> advertising what you sell you know just like they had mentioned the wall right
I would say it would be allowed >> according to these anyways I don't know Joel Corey >> I mean I guess when you get right down to it a sign's a sign but >> Mhm. I don't know. Again, we don't have these
issues. I mean, how many time permits have we been issued in the last year >> or two years? >> Uh, well, Cheesecake, uh, Lawndale Food and Fuel, >> uh, Quick Trip,
>> um, >> The Billboard. >> The billboard. >> That was the one I was pointing at. the uh when Joanne Ericson moves shuffles things around or puts something new on. So gentlemen, just a handful.
>> I mean, I guess what I'm getting at this isn't a pressing issue. >> Every day like, oh my gosh, what do we do? >> Yep. >> As long as they can we can look at it again later if it ever comes to, you know, fruition. >> I'd rather be able. We looked at this less than a year ago and here we are
looking at it again. Well, I'm just saying like in the future if the state decides they're going to change rules on something else, then we can look at it then. >> Yeah. Well, what they're going to dictate is is um you know, the main thing on signs is commercial speech
versus political speech. Well, I'm saying more like say if they force Jace to separate his gun and hardware business >> because that kind of stuff's being talked about about not selling guns in in with other, you know, residential
sales. They're states are trying to do that now. So, if he has to separate his business at any time, you know, if he wants to put up a second sign, we can look at it then. But that's the only instance that I can think of. >> Well, in that case, he's going to have two separate buildings. So then he could have
>> well he could still sell it inside but it can't be it wouldn't be part of his hardware store. >> So like in Kansas right now they're trying to outlaw so that you can't sell a gun and check out the same cash register as you're buying your paint. It
all has to be separated. >> Sure. >> So should we go to two building signs? Like Joel said we really don't want to come back to this one in in a year from now. would at least allow two just in case that would happen at some time in
the future. >> Be fine with that. >> All right. To prevent coming back, I'll go along with that. >> All right. I'm changing that from one to two. >> Uh I'm still on page 11. Gentlemen, number five, fuel service stations may
have one fuel canopy sign located upon the canopy per can per canopy and side not exceeding 30% in size. Just did that with a quick trip. Uh did that with lawn sale food and fuel and even oh when Casey's replaced their uh canopy I think
it was two years ago >> down at the bottom of the page temporary. >> Oh, come on. Don't skip number six. >> That was brought up earlier. >> You know what? I'm trying to skip that one. I maybe I want to try it for the first time. No. Um, gentlemen, >> we're going to change it to more
designate. >> All right, gentlemen. The moment of the night right here. Uh, we are still on page 11. Number six. Drive-thru restaurant menu signage shall be approved by the city administrator. Are we striking that one?
>> I think that's really excessive. >> Yeah, I think that should be >> cross it >> gone. >> Mhm. >> They should have the right to take their seasonal specials off without coming up here. >> I was going to say Joe likes something, he can make sure that they don't change their menu, so they have to keep serving
that. >> All right, striking that one. Thank you for the catch, gentlemen. >> All year round. >> Pumpkin spice all year round. >> Perfect. >> All right. Uh we are on the page of uh 12.
Uh we talk a little bit about temporary and portable signs. The uh total temporary signs on a a lot. We talk about sandwich board signs. I don't get a lot of requests for
sandwich board signs, gentlemen. Um, >> I think the biggest thing with those is just the location. You always get put right in the >> Well, ramp. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> I was just questioning why we only limited to one though. If they're considered temporary and you
could use them for directing traffic for like instances would be the blood drive the Legion uses multiple across town. >> I'm not enforcing this one. So you're not really one off. >> We also have people that say, "Oh,
you're only allowed one. Why aren't you enforcing it? If it's on the books, we should be >> Mhm. >> So, what's your recommendation? >> There should be only one sandwich board sign followed by for each an inity. I'd
strike that one. >> So, strike B all together. >> Yep. Uh, public sidewalks. This is where it gets into the public sidewalk sandwich board sign shall be displayed only during the times that the entity is open. No public sidewalk sandwich board
shall be uh displayed overnight or when there has been any snow accumulation. >> That makes sense. >> After last seen the snow and had be board anyway. >> I'm going to lose her sandwich board. It'll get shoveled up eventually.
>> All right. Anything else on page 12 here? >> Did we Did we strike B? >> We uh the >> Yeah. Okay, good. >> The size on the garage sale signs. Could we bump it to 8 foot and allow for
sandwich board signs for garage sale signs just to keep it consistent? >> Is it 8 foot? >> It's six now. So be increasing it. >> Yeah, eight square feet. I was picturing a 8 foot.
>> No, eight square feet by four. Yeah, >> I was too to be honest. >> That's huge progress. >> All right, so we're changing six to eight. >> Y >> for consistency. >> Keep it the same. >> And then I get what you're trying to do
with all off premise signs. shall have written permission of the property owner, but the property owner also has the right to just rip the thing down and throw it in the garbage if you put it up on his property. >> Any recommendation here? >> Make note of that.
All right, moving on. Page 13. Did we change days allowed for garage sales when we were working on the uses last month? >> No, we kept that. We kept that >> Thursday through Sunday. >> Thursday through Sunday. >> All right.
>> And if you recall, that was to make sure that we had something to fall back on. That one that that is a a working inquiry that comes in the city hall. >> For number seven, could we allow night before and morning? >> Yeah, I was just going to bring that up
too because that was one of my comments. Night before and night after because or day after. >> Yep. So, but hang on. Let's make sure everybody's on the same page. So, we're on page 13. >> Yeah. >> And then we're up at seven. Private party and celebration signs, wedding,
graduation, birthday, religious, or similar uh event are permitted only during the day of the event. >> Yeah, change that. >> Yeah, cuz it's much easier sometimes to put them up the day before, especially when you're putting out direction arrows for people that are maybe going to come
early in the day and you're already busy that day. >> And how about at night? Do you really want somebody after celebrating a nice wedding driving around town picking up signs that probably shouldn't be driving give them till the next day at least to
you know go out and clean everything up the next day. >> When does that happen though? >> Yeah. I mean, like for ours, we had arrows up, but I left them up until Sunday cuz I mean, we did it on a Saturday and everybody was a little too
happy to be floating around looking for partying on Sunday. >> I probably was, you know, nobody said anything, but I talked to my neighbors and they were all cool with me putting up the arrows in their yards just to show people how to get to my house. So,
>> and that was for my daughter's graduation. Nobody said anything. We're diving deep here, gentlemen. >> Yeah. >> To me, it just seems like we're looking for things to make changes to. >> Well, I'm just saying, you know, honestly, >> at least it's give them a one day versus
only day. >> Eliminate these uh complaints that you guys deal with. >> Well, I mean, what about the Christmas light signs that are still up? >> Christmas lights. >> I put Christmas light signs up. I mean, they didn't come back the next day, you
know? Just it just seems like we're looking for things to change just to change things. I don't see how this makes the community better. >> Just saying if you limit them to one day and somebody gets all peeved about it, they can raise a big pretty big stink about it. >> Mhm. >> I mean, this town's pretty good at
raising a stink about the littlest thing. >> Well, do you guys get complaints? >> I don't know. No. >> And I don't I don't know. We had a graduation party. We had garage sales and you just have to be responsible and do your thing, >> right? >> I mean, there is, you know, some type of
accountability and holding people to some standard, some level of, >> but I'm just saying you're giving them one day to put up signs, have a party that they're probably hosting and doing all the work, and then have to tear them down that evening. >> Yeah. Been there, done that. had to get everything out of my garage, park it
down the street, go get it, put everything away. >> Been there, done that. Not that hard. >> Just seems a little excessive. >> I think we're splitting hairs at this point. I I believe it. I see what you're saying. And >> you guys can change whatever you want.
Just >> I mean, I see what you're saying, too. >> Yeah. Just to me it just seems like we're hounding down on people to get stuff cleaned up when there's a lot going on. >> Mhm. >> Well, it sounds like there's no
complaints and there's no enforcement from what I'm hearing. >> Just citizens. >> Well, every time we do a sign sweep, we get >> just the beatd down, >> right? If somebody >> I mean, that's what we should be looking at. Yeah. I mean, how many corners do you see from now till October just full
of signs? >> Like I said, drive around town, there's still I'll hang your Christmas tree lights or I'll hang your Christmas lights up. >> Right. >> Well, I'm just saying giving them one day, not letting it go forever. >> Mhm.
>> Cuz here it just says you have one day to do everything. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. I don't eat whatever. I'm just >> Yeah. I'm not trying to jerk about it. at the staff at the staff level to me point, >> right? >> It's a non-issue.
>> As long as it's not getting enforced, I have no problems with it. >> Well, it's just it's a matter of falling back. >> But there is nice there is it is nice to have things. Yeah. Like Cory said, to fall back on. >> I'm just again remember zoning isn't to let that one person do whatever they want. It's to protect the neighborhood
>> from that one person. >> But I'm saying >> and protect our property values and the aesthetics of the property. I'm saying giving them one day, not six months. You know, what's one day versus, you know, somebody raising a stink about it.
>> And Mike, I want to clarify also. So, this is something to fall back on, but it's a matter of I'm not actively driving around town >> enforcing >> putting a marking it with a chalk, >> but somebody's got a complaint >> at a certain time. If someone does call
into complaint, I have to reference go go into the city code and then with this one, okay, they have to take it down the day of the event. Now, we're this is during the weekend. Okay, this dude or this this person has already had it up
Saturday, Sunday, getting the letter out. The letter gives that person seven days to take it down. Now, we're looking at almost a twoe process. >> And like I said, one's having a garage sale. I don't understand why when they're done, they picked up all their
cha tables, they cleared their garage out, they got their vehicles back in. Can't believe they're incapacitated that they can't go get their signs. >> I'm not saying that. I'm saying like graduation parties, there's going to be birthdays, there's other stuff that is also affected by that, not just garage
sales. >> So, you know what? We have Google. We also have Google Maps, too, where people just plug it in on their phone and they go there. >> I'm good with it. Whatever. I just, you know, just saying if somebody complains,
I'm going to side with the homeowner. >> All right. So then what's what's the verdict here for number seven? We spent a lot of time on this one. I'd leave it if the administration's already handing out a letter and then you've got seven days to take it down. There's your grace period. >> Yeah.
>> So, if a neighbor calls in, reports that, hey, I'm upset at my neighbor. This their their sign has been up for a week. So, that's when the letter that's when the the the request inquiry comes into the city. >> Technically, they call the next day. >> The what? >> Technically, according to this, they can
call the next morning. Mhm. >> Like if you have it on Saturday night, Sunday morning, they could be calling and complaining >> cuz it says one day. >> Just to set some standards. That's all. That's what Sony does.
>> All right. Well, we move on. I guess >> I think it's okay. I mean, seeing there's no nobody's really have it's not been an an issue. Oh, that's my personal take on it. >> With the stuff that we bring up, it starts becoming an issue that'll be
talked about on Facebook by tomorrow morning and people will go, "Oh, well, I'm going to start complaining." >> They will do it. >> Well, that's because they have people in the community that want to look nice. >> Oh, no. >> And not trashing with all the signs all over the place. Well, I mean the funny
hair we're going to get though is like I mean regardless of whether it says a day or not, you're going to have people that are still going to the complaint's going to come from somebody leaving it out a week and someone going or two days and I don't know what you're saying. I mean, you're like, okay, somebody could call you in the very next morning cuz
>> some Karen's going to be in there going, >> "This is the code right here." >> And and most of these are done on Saturdays, correct? >> Well, sometimes, sometimes on Fridays, you know, it just depends. sometimes on Sundays. Yep. >> So that's three days. >> Well, I'm just saying staff isn't around
on the weekends to enforce this. >> True. >> But if they call up and most of these events are going to be on Saturday on Saturday. >> Unless it's your little kid's birthday party through >> very few graduation parties are on Sat Sunday afternoon.
>> I'm just saying just other stuff can happen. >> I just I just go back to we're changing things just to change things. I'll leave it at that. I'll rest. Jeremy, what do you want to do? I think it's fine.
>> This is one I'll Yeah, we're splitting hairs. I'll defer to you. >> I say we just leave it. >> All right. >> Especially see it's been a non-issue. >> Uh so we're still on page 13 >> and we're on number nine, real estate
signs. Um, >> for number uh for B, could we put that one sign per street frontage? >> One sign per building for the purpose of hosting dwelling units in buildings containing two or more units, provided
the signs are limited to five square feet in the area. And I'm sorry, the recommended change, one per street frontage. In the instance, we'd have one that took up an entire block. So, they could have one on each side. >> Just
maybe, maybe not. >> So, one sign per building, street frontage. >> Mhm. >> For building versus one sign per building for the purpose of leasing. >> No, because you're saying is like if there's multiple buildings all owned by
one person, then sign sign time is up but true. >> No. If the apartment buildings on the >> like takes up the entire block, which sometimes it does, you got your frontage on the front and your frontage on the back and they have one on each side of
the building. >> Okay. Gotcha. >> So, it takes up the entire block and you've got Third Street and Fourth Street and put one on each. >> Yeah. Like that. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> All right. So, I noted that. Change. Anything else on page 13 here? All right, gentlemen. I'm on page 14. >> This is it. >> That's it. >> Nice. >> Okay. >> All right. So, we just did this review.
Anything else we need to discuss or uh any other recommendations? >> Well, if we want to look at what staff deals with on a regular basis, we'd be on page what 11. >> Yeah, let's do that.
>> As far as the size, what we're requiring for landscaping, that's what we deal with on a daily basis when or I shouldn't say daily basis, just when sign permits come in. >> Okay. All right, go back to N and then on page
11. Okay. Uh, one freestanding sign per street frontage per lot. Multi or multi-tenants site. Type monument, blade, ground, double, pole sign, multi-tenant signs. size. Freestanding signs shall not
exceed 150 square feet per surface except signs within the central and limited business districts shall not exceed 50 square ft. Height of the freestanding sign shall not exceed 30 ft from the average grade.
this scenario uh that city administrator and I just discussed uh last week. >> This one was for the um the uh uh monument sign on site here across the road uh for Quick Trip. That side height
is 25 square ft. I noted that in the review and the approval process. >> 25 what? >> 25 ft tall. >> Yes, it was 25 ft tall. the sign that's going in over there. I did notify that that that met city code requirements for
when a s when a call does come in like how could that sign be approved there? It is they're meeting exactly the the code requirement. Mhm. >> Uh as we talked about earlier, design design all pre-signing signs shall be
constructed of at least 50% brick um veneer or stone veneer, pre-cast concrete or rockface block or other similar masonry >> that you're referring to the base. >> That we're referring to the base. >> Put that in there. >> Please don't let your sign look like
crap. So some people don't think that they have to make the whole sign 50% brick. >> All free signing signs shall be constructed at least 50%. Okay. All free signing signs base. Yeah,
that's a good test. Uh then the next one we we already touched on this one already. Sign area limited to 30% of the building face. I think the main things that you deal with are location, size of the sign, and just kind of like the the landscaping or
the base. Correct. >> And the venue. >> No, that's correct. >> And like I said, it's with all the uh cases I've worked with, everyone falls into or um makes steps or falls into
compliance of with the city with the city code. So on this page, is there anything that you guys would recommend making edits to or >> the 50 per second kind of excessive at times? >> Yeah.
>> But we've tried to work with applicants to to accomplish that somehow. So you recommending that we do less than 50%? I >> I don't think so, but um it just, you know, the the typical sign say is, you know, 32 ft. Well, you know, getting 16
square ft is isn't hard, but you know, when you start talking, you know, couple hundred square foot sign, well, you know, >> it's more difficult. Yeah. And then if you don't do as much, they start getting maybe looking a little not
so nice. >> Yeah. I mean, it's really what do you >> or you know, what does the community want these these signs to look like? >> I mean, there's signs everywhere. Signs. Signs everywhere. you know. >> Mhm. >> Sign pollution.
>> You know, and I mean, I guess you have to have a sign on your business. I I understand that, but but how much advertising is actually or how many sales are actually driven through those types of signs? >> Building sign. Yeah. >> It's more for the fact that people know
where where it's at. They drive by like, "Oh, there's it, you know. Makes sense. I >> mean, unless you're out for a Sunday stroll. I mean, you everyone pretty much knows where they're going all the time, right? >> So, no changes. You just want to keep it
the way it is. >> I'm fine with that. >> I think it makes it nice and neat. >> Yeah. >> Um, it hurts those that want to go with a bigger sign, but I mean, be that's their choice, though.
>> Okay. Is that it? >> We good? >> Uh, anything else from the group here? >> Not for me. Jamie, you good? >> I'm good.
>> Okay, we're good. >> All right. Um, so we review and discuss. I'm going to bring a refresh version back to the to the me to the next meeting for the final review. Okay. >> All right. Uh Mr. Chair, number 11,
other business. Yeah. Other business. upcoming regular meeting uh Monday, April 20th, 2026 at 700 p.m. And then um there's another uh upcoming site plan
review for technical methods incorporated at 1951 Commerce Drive. Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. We've re the staff received land use application 20262. staff will be conducting the internal
review uh this coming Thursday morning at 10:00 a.m. Uh I know Justin Law, the owner of the business, is uh he want he's uh in his plans. He's proposing 100 by 120
foot or 12,000t addition. Uh the preliminary review here all checks out with setbacks, design standards, building materials, and uh I have to admit I'm pretty excited for Justin um doubling the size of his building and
growing. So um staffer, we're going to review that and please be looking for my email uh to call another special meeting and uh that would either be on before the city council meeting on March 26 or April 9th.
Okay. All right. Nobody else has anything else to add? I'm looking for a motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn. >> Motion by Mark Conu or Mike Con. >> Second. >> Second.
>> Second by Oh jeez. >> Reagan. >> Reagan Anderson. >> Sorry. Sorry. Reagan. >> All approved or all in favor? I >> I >> All right. >> All right. Thank you, gentlemen. >> Thank you.