##VIDEO ID:Zz9DUCzxvpE## all right everyone welcome to the U December 18th 2024 L Pac Township planning board meeting hour sister um we please have a moment of silence followed by the oath of allegiance to the flag of the United [Music] States pledge allegiance to the flag United States of America to the repu for which it stands one nation under God indivisible and justice for [Music] all adequate notice of this meeting has been provided indicating the time and place of the meeting in accordance with chapter 231 of the public laws of 1975 by advertising advertising a notice in the Star Ledger in The Express Times by posting a copy bulletin board the municipal building phone call yes members Co herey here George herez here Leo Le hereo and here okay does everyone have a copy of the um resolution uh for bridge I saw it on the computer didn't everybody read it I do we have any questions about that or any no no okay all right so the first vote is going to be um to approve the um resolution for what we voted on at the last meeting for the extension of time for bridge um for the warehouse over on Striker's Road would anybody like to uh to make the um motion make a motion second no Mr weeks unfortunately you voted no so you cannot second it I'll second it okay and I'll roll call that M Cole yes Coy yes George yes Mendez yes and chairman Samson yes okay second order of business um out of here huh Merry Christmas Merry Christmas hopefully you didn't have to drive too least you get all right so the the second order of business is our planner George Ritter um you know he's sick so he's not going to be coming back and we have to um we have to appoint this new um this new planner for the um affordable housing am I explaining that right um project yeah so I don't know much about you know we're going to talk a little bit here about the affordable housing what's you know in front of us here um and I guess when we when we um re uh whatever you call it thenan then we'll vote him in I believe as the planner he's the only responsive so what happens here is you know every time at the end of the year or the end of the term or whatever we have to put out uh a request for a proposal for the professionals and so we put that out and I guess this guy they were the only ones I think he part of Paul sturban yeah he's part of Colliers engineering part of Colliers but he was the only one that responded to I guess right so correct yeah it would be appropriate because and guys just mentioning this to Beth on the way in George and it's unfortunate because George had so much encyclopedic knowledge of the town and the planning aspects of it the master plans and elements and the highlands uh which all come to bear on this particular issue uh so it's it's losing a big resource for the town so Hol Urban firm though has been I think pretty intimately involved in this town um and he himself is an encyclopedic resource for the township so having his firm be part of it is not uh inappropriate by any means it's actually probably benefit um and I don't know if you just want me to kind of just give a 30,000 foot view of the the fourth round concerns at least in the well I think that we have to we have to take action on the resolution to appoint him first oh is you have that on there t I do okay yes okay so that being said does somebody want to make a motion to appoint Daniel block uh planner for the fourth round affordable housing obligation process may like to make that motion motion one second should he be here should he be here doesn't have to be here tonight no this I'll I'll tell you a little bit afterwards but but he doesn't have to be here tonight members Coy yes Coy yes George yes lende yes weeks yes jman Samson yes okay and just addressing that a lot of the work that's going to go into the fourth round number calculation is not going to be work of this board specifically it's going to be bner work Municipal governing body that has to adopt the number not the board the board should be able to assist them to the extent that it's necessary um and I think that one of the reasons why I wanted Beth to start doing this is that I know that there's now a gap and I don't want it to fall through the cracks that we come to January 31st which is the trigger date that the municipality needs to act and nobody's acted so I want the board just to be mindful of it because you guys have your planners for this town and I think that you should be part of that process to that extent I just did take a look um the Department of Community Affairs has calculated 87 is the respective need for the municipality going forth uh through 2035 87 more 87 more now um that number is based upon data and mapping and other information that the DCA had that is somewhat outdated and inaccurate uh the data which they utilize to calculate that number based upon available space and other types of factors uh isn't as robust as the highlands mapping um that does actually count for a lot of undevelopable property or already developed property or property that's already been approved for a development but it's not yet developed so that number is subject to significant change when the analysis is done um with more appropriate and better data and it is the hope that once that number is calculated Dan will be able to come back to the board and to the governing body and say look this is what the DCA said when we factor in all of these other calculations that are acquired Under The Matrix and the methodology we really think it's this number and that's the number that we should adopt and send to DCA do you expect it to be less I would I would expect it to be less because you guys are conforming Highlands municipality um I don't know if you're fully conforming but you're yeah I think we're fully you're fully conforming um and the highlands actually will provide a great and that's why not having Georgia around because he had such a good relationship with the highlands um they have a lot of ability to actually assist in coming up with that number utilizing the highlands restrictions the planning area versus the the preservation area Etc um so far what we've seen at least preliminarily with the planners and our other municipalities is yes those numbers are significantly inflated when other considerations are put in the actual number that should be utilized is a lot less uh it is subject to challenge so people are able to come back and say no we disagree we think your number should be higher they're not able to say at that point that they think that their property ought to be part of that number they're only able to challenge the number and the methodology by which it is calculated and that's why it's important to get on the ball because it's basically a month away to come up with the appropriate methodology to actually sustain whatever number is derived I have a question what is like low income is it is it CL Village it it it depends there's and it's a little bit more complicated there's several types of low income there's very low income low income moderate and under the various rules you have to have certain percentages of each and I don't have my cheat sheet here um certain amount has to be rental certain amount has to be Market some percent can be age restricted it's this entire Matrix that they've come up with and you don't know what low income is it's based upon geographic regions and census data for income so what's considered low income in Warren County may be different from what's considered low income in Kate May County and the regions it's a regional type assessment for that by counties um regions I don't know exactly how the actuaries and people actually come up with that but they come up with the the percentages of of income and so that's just it I guess that's my question is you know are we going to fall under the same number as Philipsburg no that's only that's only regarding who would qualify for the unit what their income level is and it's not on a municipality by municipality basis um so the regional have what would be considered to be a low moderate very low income bracket I can tell you the homes down there in out all right on where is that street High Street all right $52,000 is too high for low income I'm telling you that for the honest truth all right it's a fact so you're you're well below that to be able to get in it and it depends whether or not their rental units Market units um again it's there's a lot of moving parts to it in the short term it's coming up with what that prospective need number is going to be uh and adopting that and at least getting that part of the process done um and that's really it at this point in time a lot of it's going to be uh number crunching by the planner and mapping overlays and looking at everything as to what's in place what can be built where it can be built where there's sewer availability that all comes to bear on it and so if we need more if we need more that just comes into it would be like the planning for someone who say is going to build like a new development or we would say okay we're UH 60 short you know 60 of your 300 will have to be like they can't force Us in other words we have to wait for Builder to come in and in that and it's on stru gets in that yeah and we don't we just say this land is for that you it has to be zoned accordingly so what ends up H the way that this is supposed to generally play out is that the municipality will come to a number it either gets challenged or accepted that number then has to get incorporated into your housing element and your land use element of the master plan and then from there the governing body can Zone appropriately for where they believe that development can fill in uh um to allow that construction or make it realistic that it will be developed how often do they revisit that like master plan no I mean for the for the affordable housing like did we have to do this 20 years ago 10 years ago or are we going to have to do it in another 5 35 years in 203 about 10 years it's 10 years every 10 years now under the current structure as it is yes anticipated it every 10 years so um there was one other thing I wanted to mention regarding it that's just kind of escaping my mind um I can just assure you that any degree of confidence that I speak towards this it's false there's so many variations so much different information that's out there and coming from uh not only DCA but even Highlands it's everybody's kind of playing it by ear and doing our best to work within the structure that was given through the law um and there are there's so many variables and just to you on what the chairman was saying theoretically the municipality if it had its own land could Zone that land for 100% affordable housing and get double credit for that if it's 100% affordable housing and um partner with uh Habitat for Humanity or somebody to actually build it and administer it so there's different mechanisms to achieve it once it's even create once it's even decided what the number is then you start getting into various credits that will actually boring out as the plan is adopted and ultimately continued into development phases so we have to so we have to go to uh so we have to go to the state by January 31st with what we believe our number is supposed to be that's right okay so that is a crunch I mean he's going to have to uh we'll have to have another meeting probably in two weeks I would say you know we're rehabing homes now too that qualify with our Co-op money that we have in our smart so that does that does that'll count I have to get that off too that flyer what we're doing yeah because that will count for Rehab of existing of or extending affordability controls on existing units can also count and honestly there's just so much that you just leave to the planners because the the rules and the everybody's just trying to figure it out in their own little Community they they have their little ends with a fair share Hazard Center and trying to see what because that that's going to be one of the bigger objecting parties um if people are coming in with numbers that they find to be unreasonable um yeah they in the agencies they have to look out for the on that will be the obors and developers primarily um I don't know if you need to have one in two weeks but certainly early January you want to start talking about it and he would have to be here right give us a feel give us a feel for where re but you know that'll be short so he should be pretty much prepared with something to preliminar to us and it's a lot of work you know you guys have any questions but I don't know if it's like on the governing bodies radar just it ought to be yeah I wanted to make sure that every it's going to be I talked to the mayor about it already Okay I know if George was in here it would have been you already Beyond it and you know yeah when he did talk to me about it you know um a little while ago that you're going to have a lot of work to do with it next year and be here on so the Town Council will give the approval for the final number yeah they'll have to they'll be involved as much as you guys you're the planers are more in this process kind of an advisory body for the governing body you're here to help them so we'll have a vote at that time to agree uh with Mr Block and then like an advisory and then the statute requires nothing as formal as that it's certainly not a bad idea uh um it's silent as to the the board's specific role in it but I think that when it comes to we help with the housing element yes and and I think that when it comes to planning concerns in the municipality it's good to have the planners the planning board involved so that everybody can say yeah okay this is what you know we're envisioning so that's all I have to say if I if there's any questions I'll happy to try and answer I mean would you think it would be good if I sent them the housing element that we had all you know already on the books because that's what's going to change and you could read it and familiarize yourself with it and of course you were involved what do you mean the housing element how many we already have well well it's a it's a big report uh and it's part of our master plan we have a housing element we have a spending plan circulation element use element traffic element all these different elements to the master plan and we redo the master plan you can do it any time you want but I think that you have to do it every 10 years for reexamination at the minimum usually just reexamination which is just a update report on it um but yeah I I I forget when our actual full la master plan was I yeah it's a lot of work to do a full master plan I think we've done a lot you and revisions well maybe we don't maybe we don't need a a special meeting it sounds to me like he's going to you know he's going to uh do some work and come up with his number that's the number we're going to give them and then it sounds maybe like a negotiation between well you have a timeline I shared that with all of you um like he'll have to give it to them by the 31st so maybe we just need to have a meeting before the 31st where he can introduce himself and speak intelligently about how he came up with the number or you know what he thinks about it and then after that you know they would probably come back to him and say well no we think you know it should be this or yeah I don't know I don't know much about it you're you're in a very big boat don't worry I mean like I was telling Beth the only thing I remember was when they built Overlook they had to have a certain amount you know affordable housing but I didn't well and that that was that was actually a builder's remedy lawsuit that was even different that was saying that the town didn't provide appropriate affordable housing were compliant and there was a land owner that then brought a lawsuit challenging it challenging the town zoning in one and was able to put affordable housing in the ROM District because that was way back was way back way back before that was built and a ridge is out of a law too you know they were an intervenor in something and probably in a CO proceeding and uh even our old Delaware Park School has one uh Co unit in there and Larry Gardner when he built Warren Heights he paid us so he didn't have to have those unit gave us $600,000 to use for rehabing homes existing homes and we did we rehab like 15 homes and now we're back into that program again because we have like about over $3 million in the trust just sitting there do you remember one the climber Village want to built climber Village was built I was saying with an arrangement between po hat for the col right but I'm going to estimate 5 years ago and did want I put an addition on yeah all right and I don't know why it stopped but that's why I asked that question was it covered because if they ever came forward with the new law can we build that as part of making it up here okay uh 30 rooms fall under that you know what I mean for that area they didn't do that so you know no but I mean for that area we can lock that area as an area for that for development development for affordable housing which would give people a place to go when they can't take care of themselves in a home because it falls under to me that's good for this community there is actually you're talking about having some type of affordability control Assisted Living yes there are mechanisms for that right there's one that was just approved sud road that becomes part of their fair share number that a certain percentage of beds is being held back for Medicare Medicaid affordability control rooms or beds that will count yes so yes the answer is yes the master plan you have here is it just for Pac yes one town yeah every town has we had a master plan and we had several towns that were all involved in it so everybody could do a little bit of everything but you just have one tell okay wasn't there something where you could take your numbers and sell it to another yeah that used to actually happened in the town of Philipsburg you know they they were they took on many towns you know in and around you know us and there used to be something called Regional Regional contribution agreements and municipalities were basically able to pay through the developers are receiving municipality certain amounts of money based on various formulas uh to satisfy their Coen needs and that was that rule has been long since abolished Town got it's not just us it always seemed too that there was so so much work put into this and in the end there wasn't really that much change of anything I there was it always seemed that way to me I don't know if it's correct it's a lot of work yeah it's a lot of work and you know ordinances have to be adopted and yeah so the amount of money that has been spent on on attorneys on planners on litigation if if a quarter of that was actually put toward its affordable housing it would actually be something but yeah it's just my personal opinion um I just want to further note because Beth you did have it on the agenda it was attached to the PDF of the resolution has the timeline on it so if you look at that last email from Beth and look at my resolution at the tail end you're going to see the uh the uh timeline uh that Beth attached for this and just there's what it is well where was the timeline you oh no I see it now yeah it was that sented on um last Friday uh just before noon there's two attachments one's a PDF and one's the agenda at the bottom of the PDF when you're going to see the uh timeline it's right Mar [Music] 15 if Council has to approve it and it has to be approved by the 31st of January is Council schedule going to schedule a special meeting uh if that's the case then yes because if we miss the deadline we lose our immunity from exclusionary zoning so that means developer could just come and pop it anywhere well I think that just means that we have to give them something by no it says each municipality must adopt a resolution with the determination of its present and perspective fair share by the 31st so I'm interpreting that as we have to yeah the governing body has to adopt it by the 31st yeah there r a special meeting I actually had two meetings in January I probably have to add another one that's all I got chairman isn't that enough so I you know George was OB obvously you know a paid um person to come here is it out of line for us to do something for him kind of like you know we did for Gary there's certainly nothing out of line right we could make something nice and I think yeah there's nothing wrong with that good on that right I'll contact you all favor all right yeah all right anybody have anything else going once going twice motion to adjourn make a motion to adjourn a second okay all in favor everybody have a great holiday Merry Christmas Merry Christmas every Christmas next week you know well