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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=QgR1M2a7HOI

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All right, I'll call this meeting to order at 5:00 pm. If we can all rise for the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under

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God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Nobody else is coming. for the roll call. Committee member Lisa Murray, >> present. >> Committee member Tracy Raflowitz, >> present. >> Committee member Frederick Hoo is

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absent. Committee member Samuel Herity is absent. Committee member Jennifer Stevens >> present. Committee member Herity is present. Um, board leazison David Delena

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>> present. >> And then board clerk Gabriella Crosdale is present. And we also have town attorney Jeff Curts with us as well. >> I am here. >> And then for additions, deletions, andor modifications to the agenda, there were a couple supplements out. Um you guys

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should all have it. And then after that, I just need a motion to accept the agenda. >> Make a motion to accept the agenda. Second. >> All in favor? Hi. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> Okay. Seeing that as there are no public

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comments, we can move into the swearing in of new members for Lisa Murray, Jennifer Stevens, and Samuel Herity. You guys should have the oath in front of you. And then if you can raise your right hand and repeat after me.

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I do solemnly swear or affirm >> I do solemnly swear or affirm >> that I will support, protect and defend >> that I will support, protect and defend >> the Constitution and government of the United States and of the state >> the Constitution and government of the United States and of the state

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>> and the charter of the town of Locks Hache Groves >> and of the charter of the town of Locks Hache Groves >> that I am duly qualified to hold office >> that I am duly qualified to hold office >> under the constitution of the state and the charter of the town of Lock Lockxahhatche Groves >> under the constitution of the state and

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the charter of the town of Lockahhatche Groves >> and that I will well and faithfully perform >> and that I will well and faithfully perform the duties of committee member upon which I am now about to enter. >> the duties of committee member upon which I am now about to enter. >> All right. And then if you guys can just

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sign the oath and then you can pass it over. Sam, it's because you're a new person. I'm assuming. All right, moving on to item number two. We have the appointment of the chair and the vice chair.

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It's up to you guys whether or not you would like to do it since we don't have Frederick here with us today. Um, but I was advised by Jeff that for one of the items, I believe it's the pillars item, um, the chair is going to have to go and

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present their kind of findings for that item to the uh, council on June 16th, I believe. I believe for their workshop meeting. So, it probably makes sense to pick a chair.

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>> I nominate Tracy Ruffalo. >> Somebody has a second. >> I second the motion. >> All in favor? >> I >> I nominate Jennifer Stevens as my vice chair. >> I'll second the motion.

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>> All in favor? >> I I >> All right. Mo both motions pass four to zero. Um Tracy, I don't know if you want to go ahead and continue with the meeting now on to item number three. We are on item three, discussion and

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recommendations of the town council on the permit policy. I >> think they wanted us to review it. I mean I >> mean >> make any recommendations recommendations. Yeah. >> I have a narrower scope.

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>> Um at this point in time I think it is a a relatively broad scope. The procurement policy was developed um five six years ago 2020. Um and it is

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it was at the same time they modified uh the procurement ordinance. Um and you've got a copy of that within the the policy. Um but you have to remember that the ordinance takes precedence over

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uh the procedures manual. Um, I think there are some things that you may want to to consider um as to whether or not the purchasing authority is adequate. That's one of the

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things that uh folks usually take a look at after five or six years as to whether that makes sense. If there are any questions you have about um the uh uh the particular policy um we can take a look at that. Um I

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don't believe that anybody thinks there's need of a huge overhaul, but this is more checking on it and fine-tuning uh sorts of things. One of the things that I would ask you all to to consider from and this is it ends up

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being a matter of um personal preference um I want to iterate that the ordinance takes precedence over uh the policy manual. Um and they can get changed in

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different uh manners. uh administrative policy can be um changed without the necessity of uh legislation in two hearings before the council. Um so one of the things is

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to think about is whether or not you want your policy manual to reiterate or simply refer to the uh the procurement code. So, those are things for you to to think about. Um, as far as

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I know, nobody on uh the council uh nor staff has um gone through this with any particular agenda in mind and so that's why it is broad-based to you. Um, I would note

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that in um on page uh I guess it's 21 of your agenda 17 of the administrative purchasing policy. Um

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there is a reference to um payment and performance bond and it's under section four for contracts. Um it would seem to uh indicate that a payment and performance bond um is required in with

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in respect to every contract. That doesn't make any sense. It has not been read that way, but it's something we should probably clean up. That's the one initial observation that I have for you all. >> So this is something very new that we've never had done.

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In fact, it's open-ended discussion. [laughter] So, this is a great one. Um, I don't know if anybody else here went through this. I have lots of questions. Shocker, I know. Um, I don't know if anybody else does. Um, >> great. Um, so I don't know how we want

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to do this today considering it's a healthy discussion. >> Um, I that is that is up to you. um to the extent that David or I could answer questions um we would attempt to to do

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so um if there is something we need to look into um we can do that. I would suspect that um if this was the only item on the agenda, it would still be a major task to go

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through it and you know attempt any sort of rewrite on a comprehensive basis or anything like that. Um so my suggestion would huh >> 530 or >> but that's all up to you how how long you want to

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deal with it. >> We go to 5:30. >> Yeah. and understand that it would probably be the subject of a future meeting. We didn't expect to go through this all in one shot, I don't think. >> Um, for some people, hopefully everybody

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here, I'm assuming, knows what a procurement policy is. Do we need to explain what a procurement policy is for the residents or do we keep it amongst ourselves? >> I don't think you need to explain it at this point in time. um when you go forward with your recommendations

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um that'll al obviously be presented to the council. >> Since we since Sam's our only gentleman, we can start with Sam. >> Oh, [laughter] go ahead. >> Are you sure? >> Yeah, I looked at only the numbers since we were finance. >> Okay. I looked at everything, >> Madam Chair. >> Yes, ma'am. Or yes,

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>> sure. That's all right. Either way, uh, you know, um, it's part of a Florida statute, you know, that each local government has this and it's really thought of when staff first look at our purchasing policy that we see where

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things line up. And so there's a direct correlation between efficiency versus the procurement policy. Um, and so if we need to get something done, there are a few exclusions in here. Like for example, emergency

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uh emergencies, we can go we can do it without the actually having to to review it. We do obviously have to bring that back to you, but uh sole source, I don't know if you know what sole source is. So source is a is a type of contract where there's only one provider of that. And

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so when staff make a recommendation, we would then and it's there's very very few uh exceptions to a sole source. >> Electric company. >> Yeah. Well, matter of fact, you know, uh matter of fact, electric companies uh postage, memberships, subscriptions,

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those things there are kind of outside of your normal purchasing policy. So the idea, and I can give you a perfect example, would be uh the carpet, right? you know, uh, if staff or if the commission said, "You know what? We should look at getting new carpet."

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Okay, just as an example, right? Well, we would look at where it would fit into this matrix and we would go, "Oh, okay. What we're going to do is we're going to try to see we're going to send out some feelers there as far as how much how

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much are we talking about?" Because the purchasing policy is set by dollar threshold, right? Certain amounts are, you know, uh they give staff the latitude to conduct business as every day need to be without bogging down and

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and slowing down the process. And so we'll first look at well what type of service or product are we looking for? And what do we think the estimated dollar threshold will be? that will tell us, that tells staff a lot and it

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actually tells staff what we have to do next. And so that threshold there, that's kind of our barometer. And uh currently, you know, it's anything up to $1,000. You know, the department head has the discretion to to uh make that

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purchase of obviously government needed uh uh products or services. uh from $1,000 and one penny up to $5,000. Typically, it's uh three documents, we

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we would want to get some type of verbal or written quote, and that would then usually go to the town manager or designate. If if it was Jeff or what have you, we'd say, "Hey, we got something for $4,999. Department heads, I can't do it. Here

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are my three quotes. here's why I want to go with this person. Yeah, that person there's the lowest pro provider, but I've heard horrible things about them. And so staff would give the design their rationale and document that. And then of course we go up to the $5,000 in

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a penny up to $24,900. That's when it goes to nope, it needs to be a formalized written quote. We need to get them. uh and at that there the town manager andor designate still meets that threshold. And then of course

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anything over 25,000 we would then go through a formal uh competitive selection process which uh it does take quite a bit of time >> for something 25,000. >> So question real quick. So, under

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section two, vendor selection C5 exemptions and that would be on page um 12 of the document itself and page 16 of the

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entire book. So are just so I'm understanding all of these items are exempt from the bidding the necessity to get bids. >> Yes.

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>> Correct. The state of Florida has issued what's called a CC CCNA uh designation that says engineers uh uh certain professional organizations, attorneys, things like that don't necessarily have to go

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through a competitive it it it just uh it sets the profession enough to do the bidding within their their own profession uh to you. But I've seen other communities, let me give you an example, where if they wanted to have um

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if they wanted to have multiple engineers, it doesn't mean they enter into contracts with they do enter into contracts with multiple engineers, but they spread the work across multiple engineers, you know, uh and that might be an idea, but yes, to answer your

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question, >> something I learned that these single source concerns are sometimes often frequently abused also. Um, what documentation is actually required for it? >> For I'm sorry, for what? >> For the single source concerns? What

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documentation is actually required for any of it? Is it just >> for for a single s a single source >> contract? Yeah. >> Contract. >> Um, there should be written justification for it. >> Yeah.

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>> But should be. And then who verifies it? Speak closer. >> Who verifies it? ultimately the town manager. >> And is there any annual reporting for a sole source purchase? >> Um,

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not that I'm aware of. >> Soul source are very very infrequent. I mean, it's uh you it has to be >> I don't know. I've seen it more frequently in the last two years. >> Oh, okay. I >> Well, soul source soul source is different than things that are exempt

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from competition. Yeah. >> Again, I'll leave it. >> Well, well, for for example, um when we hire um when we hire outside counsel,

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um that's obviously not something that is sole source. Um, but there is pursuant to our ordinance and and statute, you do not have to have a competitive bid or a competitive selection process. You can, but you

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don't have to. Um, and so, um, a lot of that is the the logic behind that is, um, the services require a certain level of of expertise.

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um and your bottom line pricing of you know on a per hour basis might not be the best way to to make that decision because there might be somebody that's more efficient. There might be a situation in which you're entitled to recover some of those costs and so um

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the the cost is of a little bit of a lesser um issue if you're in a situation when where you're going to recover costs. So, but that's >> I mean I I think I want to put words in your mouth, Tracy, but I think what Tracy's getting out with that is is that

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there needs to be some accountability and some checks and balances put in place to where if whether it's an exemption or it's a sole source if there's not a competitive bid, it needs to fall into one of those two categories if it's over a certain dollar amount.

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And so where how how is there a check and balance of that? who who looks at that and says, "Oh, yes, that fell under um soul source that fell under the exemption." So that we know we're not just shoving nonsoul source things into the soul source category and or into an

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exemption category. >> Well, that would probably be your town manager who would that's part of their responsibilities as well as your department heads for your departments, you know, >> right? But if the town manager's

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the one directing things to different locations, who then holds the town manager accountable for doing that? >> Legal. >> Okay. >> Well, the it's the town council that holds them responsible. They may

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>> budget, right? >> Yes. At any one of those. >> It's not just the budget, though. It's the what came after the budget. What actually happened? with with respect to to the reporting. While there's not a

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specific um breakdown on uh single source or um exempt kind of purchases. Um uh there are um reports of everything over $10,000 um and $25,000

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uh that has been expended with any particular vendor >> unless it's exempt or soul source. No, there's still a report on everything, every every expenditure. Like there's a list of of vendors that um the finance

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department prepares on a quarterly basis. Um and it'll say here's all the folks that have been paid more than $10,000. Here's all the folks that have been paid more than $25,000. I I looked in here and I didn't see it,

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but it's possible. I just missed it because it's a large document and this is my first time doing this. But um is there anything in the pro procurement policy right now which has that check and balance where there is reporting to

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the council to where they can see how things are categorized and if not other than just dollar amounts and if not I would recommend that we put something in the procurement policy that that does that. I mean that should be

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just like an accounting entry that you know >> I I don't believe there is anything in the current policy uh that says all of the um [clears throat] we'll get a list of soul

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source we'll get a list of exempt all those kind of things. Um, >> I mean, I think it'd be very helpful for the council to be able to have, you know, a lot of confidence in the whole system. If if they know that these expenses, what category they fall into

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in in the procuremental manual, are they exempt? Are they soul sourced? What was the justification for approving those without a bid? And um, and it seems like it would be a fairly easy thing to do to document in the financial system under, you know, categories of of whatever the

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expense is. I mean, you could probably add a notation in there that's searchable. And, you know, I haven't been in your financial system, but I'm assuming if it's like all the others I've been in, it's pretty easy to do that. And then when you run a report, you could give that report to the

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council and say, "These are all the items." >> And then there's some um, >> you know, they can they can see it. There's some clarity. >> I don't I don't think it would be uh very difficult to do. Um, I think what

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you would want to do is not go into an analysis of all the expenditures under $1,000. >> I I >> because that's that that's market and you know, >> uh, >> yeah, I I don't disagree. I mean, certainly a dollar amount, but I think it would be helpful to maybe have a

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provision in here that would number one direct whoever is doing the enter making the entries in the accounting system to categorize them into one of those two categories. And then when the reporting comes to council, they can see it. Seems pretty. >> Who wrote this? Who wrote this

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procurement policy? >> My understanding is um I think it was written um by uh the law firm and specifically Brian Shut at the at the time. um along with

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um uh Francine Ramalia when she was the assistant um town manager. That's my understanding of the the genesis of that in the 2019 through 2020 time period. >> Did they have one before that?

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>> I suspect that they did. Um, one of the things that generated this was I think it was 2018 that you had the combination uh where the merger of the um district and the town um and the

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district and the town had different uh spending authorities and and uh different procurement policies. So my understanding is that this comes out of

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um an opportunity uh to combine those um those policies and get a single uh policy for the two entities. >> Is this the first time that this policy has been reviewed in six years? >> Yep.

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That was one of my other observations was what can we put something in here that says this will be reviewed once a year >> since there's nothing in it. >> It needs to be reviewed every year. >> We're very careful about the >> likely letting things move forward once

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a year is extremely forun six years is >> well I think you you look at things too and every year is a change. I mean, this is a this is a large document and to 100% do everything in one year, it's almost like you got to take it in piece

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by piece every year. Go back through what works, what doesn't work. It it should be done more I think more frequent. >> Well, and it may be that the review is we've reviewed it. We're the committee. I don't have any changes. You don't have any changes and that's it. I mean, it may be that simple or it may be

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something's come up in that year where it it may maybe needs to items, >> right? >> Yeah. worked in a better. >> The answer to your question is to my knowledge there hasn't been a a formal review um of the the manual or the

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ordinance during that time frame. Um the the council um and the staff regularly work with the outcomes of uh the policies and the implementation of the policy. Um but yeah that it makes

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sense to uh to review it um I think in in whole um and then if there's a particular issue you can isolate on that um but a quick review but I I do also agree with um committee member Herity

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that every year is a lot um given given the fact that the committee um meets at most on a monthly basis and the committee would be the natural um

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entity to to do the review. >> Also, sorry, I'm still getting people telling me we can't hear through the mic. So, if you can just speak a little closer to the mics. >> Thank you. >> So, I have a couple questions. Does anybody else have questions before I ask a couple? >> Well, I do, but go ahead. Um, so back

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where it says vendor selection, you talked about a threshold from I guess $1,000 up to 24,999. And um that is basically from my understanding

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um at the discretion of the town manager um on a procurement which I find $24,000 a little high. Is there a cap to that? Um where's the check on balance and how

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often can that happen? So, if we have to do a procurement for several items through the town or we're hiring a few different vendors at that point and we've got 24,000 here, 10,000 here, 11,000 here and that one person is

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allowed to say, "Yep, yep, yep." And there's no checks and balances to that production. >> That's what I'm reading. >> There's a there's a process involved. Um most of most of these um procurements are going to be based on um some sort of

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competitive selection um in the sense that you're at least going to go out and get three three quotes. Um well that's the that's the process that's um involved in in there >> that falls into one of these.

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Yeah. Well, 25 for >> for example, I'll give you there's there was an exception that was made by the town council um when it came to um automotive repairs. Um because of the

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location of the um of the public works building. um because of the location of uh a mechanic who had done good service for the um the town and given good pricing in the the

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past, the council made a determination that it made sense um to utilize that mechanic um rather than go out on a bidding process uh for automotive repairs um and equipment repairs.

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Because in typically with respect to to that kind of thing um at least in my experience and I think their experience you know the mechanics got to go and take a look at it. So in order to get um uh you know the equipment to three

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different places to say okay how much is this going to be that um proved cumbersome. So there was a decision made by the council that in the best interest of the town um that uh we would utilize um that business that is there and that

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made the process more efficient for them to to get repairs done. In order for there to be that kind of best interest determination, which is obviously not sole source, um that requires a uh minimum of four

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affirmative votes by the town council. So, there are some of those things that that come into to play. Um but for the most part um when we're making acquisitions

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um uh you get three quotes. Yeah. But my question would be so we get our three quotes and >> and the man the manager >> say as long as it's under the threshold of the 25,000

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does not need approval from anyone else a second pair of eyes on the contracts >> um that can just approve it on their own. >> They they can approve the purchase um on their own. they're typically going to um

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go with the the lowest of the three quotes unless there is some disqualifying uh factor. Is there any check and balance on that? Does anyone ever look at that to say, "Okay, we looked at these three quotes. Does anyone look at the three quotes and

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say, "Yeah, this makes sense." Or is it just we're just trusting the town manager to do what's in the best interest of the town? when it's within the when it's within the U manager's purchasing authority.

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>> Well, of up to $25,000. Um, no, that's that's >> No, but I mean, is there any reporting on that later so that the council or the committee or whoever is looking at it can or the auditor is saying, "Oh, yeah,

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that that's a good decision. That made sense." um >> or no >> anybody there is there is not a there's not a routine report as I indicated any expenditures with any particular vendor um of over $10,000 or over $25,000 gets

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reported on a regular basis um and the council has the ability to check on um what the circumstances of the purchase are. The other thing, the other thing >> so does everyone in the town, right, has

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access to the financials and can look at the expenditures and come to the town meeting and say, "Hey, I think we should look at this." >> And we give a list of all of the uh uh invoices that are over $10,000 and $25,000 specific for this uh purpose.

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You know, the thing to keep in mind is is that every asset that the town owns from sidewalks to paint behind you to light bulbs has to be maintained. And so

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the uh procurement process is to balance efficiency and transparency. And so at the end of the day, you have a choice. Is the recommendation

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to really bog down a process or you know and so the Florida statute along with legal along with department heads use the purchasing policy as their Bible when they need to procure some service

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or some goods. And obviously the town manager, staff, and legal, we always refer back to where does this fit into our purchasing policy and they're signing stuff, you know, under under uh under that that certain threshold.

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>> Well, and that that's why I should note there's two things I want to note. Finance does take a look at those those things to see whether or not um all the requisite conditions have been uh made. That's part of what we ask the finance

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department to do. In addition, any any payment that is made um uh through um an EFT, an electric fund transfer um or a check uh is reviewed by two

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council people. The checks require both signatures um or two signatures and the EFT sheet um requires sign off by two council people. Um and when they when the

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council people receive that information um to to make the payment uh there is backup as to what the charges have come from. And sometimes it's actually the contract that is out there. So

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I think there there's certainly an opportunity to know what was going on and they do ask. [laughter] >> Is there an annual procurement transparency report? >> There it's part of the annual audit. The

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auditors will select based on a sample size. Well, I think it would be good to have just a report just in general for someone to look at that has all of your contracts, all your renewals, all your source source purchases, all your emergency purchases, all your vendors exceeding the threshold. I mean, those

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would be good things for us to review every year as well. And I think that's where Jennifer was coming into is reviewing the procurement. Maybe not the entire policy, but there are certain things that I think we should review to make sure that financially we're in the right ballpark instead of relying on our

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town council to do it because they don't have time to do it. >> All right. Well, well, um, all of you have or can have access to the Blackbod system which shows

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um all of the all the purchases. Um, the only thing that I don't think would be specifically in there, uh, >> contracts are not in there or the renewals, >> I have yet to find one >> contracts are there are they are in

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there. I'm not going to say that every single one of them is in there, but they are. Um, I don't know which ones you've been looking for, but we could go over that at a different time. Um, uh, but yeah.

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Um, >> but I think things aren't labeled this way either when you're looking at it. Okay. These are sole source. >> Oh, no. They're defin No, they're they're they're not they're not going to be labeled in that fashion. No, that is that's something that um is a is a new

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suggestion uh that you're making. >> That's great. >> Also, access to Blackpot. I had asked about it when we were coming as a new board and I have yet to Finally, you brought it up that we can

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have access to this system. Yes. Um, so how quickly would we have access to the black? >> Um, once you become a once you um are a member of FAC, which officially happened with your swearing

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in today, if you haven't already been in FAC, um you can have access uh to it. And I know that um your chairperson uh has been into um it. I believe Mr.

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Herity from his prior experience has um been able to get into it. Um >> so we just ask Valerie about that get access from >> I I would think the clerk's office would be setting you up and making training available to you. >> We can email you guys about it and help

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you guys set up. >> Okay, great. Thank you again. Also, we have a public comment when you guys are ready to hear it. >> Okay. >> Are we done on the public? Does anybody have any other questions on the procurement? >> Public comment from Tom McClendon. >> Todd Mclendon. Yeah, I'm glad you point

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out at the end there that two council members have to approve every dime that comes out of here. So if they had an issue with it, they could bring it up at a council meeting and say, "Hey, there's something wrong here that, you know, there was a $10,000 computer got bought and why are we spending 10,000 on a computer?" Um, but my main point I wanted to bring up, as you recall, part

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of our charter requires all contracts to be approved by the town attorney. That does not happen. And I think it would behoove us to get an opinion from the inspector general's office as to is there a threshold for that? Um because right now the charter is not being

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followed hasn't been followed for the last 20 years and as you know we tried to get that changed in the charter and that that failed and if the people want every contract to be approved by the town attorney that needs to be happening. Thank you. >> Look at that 537

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pretty close. If anybody else have any questions, comments. >> I have a comment. It's a small one about um >> honestly we did. I thought with this we're good. >> Yeah. >> Um how do you want to proceed with the

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the review at your next meeting or >> Yeah. I mean when we have more time, >> right? Do you want That's what I was thinking. Do we want to make this a single uh a single item on an agenda? Um

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and is there any direction that you want um to give to to staff with respect to uh fleshing out any of these things at this point in time or we'll go through that on a section by section basis type thing?

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>> I think that would be beneficial. Then maybe Mr. for who will be here and we'll have five of us but being able to go through it >> because I that's it's a lot it's a lot to go through and I mean I have tons of questions but we put ourselves on time >> so I don't want to take up that whole

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time for just me um so I think it'd be good if we just did the procurement anybody else disagree agree >> to do the move that um table for the next time >> yes and as it's just new coming in um getting all this just so quickly we

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could get new items maybe a little sooner. >> Yeah, >> it would be helpful than Friday afternoon. Um being that it's a weekend and really had a whole day to spend on this. Um so it was just a lot to go over. Um I would like to address what um

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uh Mr. Curts has said too about this payment performance bond. I know we're so I want to do some research on that as well because I had a question on that. I am not familiar. It's for construction contracts. >> Yeah. So, I just for like a a bond for

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them, a sturdy bond. So, I just like to find out a little bit more information before we just wipe it off the >> Oh, I'm not I'm not suggesting we wipe it off. I'm just saying that we have it >> not have it for >> have it have it put for the type of contract that it's supposed to be there for.

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>> We all in agreement on that? >> Agree. Sounds good. But I would like to make a motion that a our meetings start at 6 PM and that there's no other meetings after our fact meeting. Let me also

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second it. A second motion. It's really tough. >> I don't think we can make a motion to have other meetings scheduled, but we have a request. >> I think we have to make a motion. We did it last year and it didn't happen. Well, I think with respect to the time of your meeting, certainly if you want

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them to begin at six o'clock, um yeah, a motion to that effect would be uh would make sense. Yeah. >> Just from the last couple years having we don't ever get to do what we do in an hour and a half to two hours. There's times where we need to get in like you

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see what our our agenda is for today. There's no way we can do this in an hour and 50 minutes. No, I I think this this agenda in my view was an introductory um agenda and you know trying to get you guys to to say okay here's some things

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that the council wants you to take a look at and actually the main focus of this meeting since there is a deadline associated with it um will be the pillars discussion um and uh the presentation of that item um by your

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chair person at the June 16th meeting of the council. So, >> do we want to skip to that now or do you want me to talk to about PBSO? >> What are you on? >> We're supposed to do PBSO and then the

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>> and then the pillars. >> Then the pillars. I think the pillars is one of those ones where I think is one of those we have to do on our own and do it just as a workshop. Maybe >> that's what I was understanding that it was an individual. I mean, cuz I

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did it I did it the whole thing. I didn't realize we were all kind of come up with different things. So, if that's the case, then I think we should do that as a workshop and not here tonight when we only have so much time. We do that before the 16th, the deadline. Is it June 16th as a deadline?

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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. But while we stay on order for the agenda. >> So it would be the SO and then the strategic plan. >> That would be PBSO and then the strategic plan. And the strategic plan is one of those ones where we have to

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it's we have a deadline. That's what he was saying. We have a deadline with that. I think we have a deadline with PBSO too. So okay, stay on topic. >> PBSO. um PBSO contract once again you you have

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been asked to to look at things my understanding it is a very broad um you know request there hasn't been anything in particular that you are are pointed to uh to to analyze

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um but uh uh the staff has supplied you with a number of contracts tax. Um I think uh they just also handed out um some data that was received from the sheriff's office

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with respect to uh the current um levels of incidences of various things in town and in comparison to uh last year at this point in time versus uh the previous year. As

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you all know, or I suspect you all know, um the town is under contract with the sheriff's office, but that um that contract uh has

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been terminated for the upcoming fiscal year. And for this fiscal year, um, a decision was made by the the town council to only fund it through the beginning of December.

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um for the first two months. Um and shortly thereafter the uh when there was no payment forthcoming, the sheriff made a decision to withhold services under the contract. Um

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and uh they later came up with a date of December 17th. um and that payment amounted to approximately $29,000. It's my understanding that that payment has been

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been made. There have been dis there had been discussions about renewing negotiations. Um and at this point in time, there are no ongoing negotiations with respect to to the resumption of the contract for

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this fiscal year or next fiscal year. Um uh but um >> is that the question we're being asked is should we should we try to resume negotiations and go back into the contract this fiscal year or we are we really tasked with looking at what are

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we going to do next year? I think you're tasked you're not tasked specifically to my knowledge with anything in particular other than analysis of the the contract and um some sort of compare comparison

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and assess an an assessment of what would be a good contract for the the town. I can tell you having participated in the discussions with um PBSO um they do not approach uh the contracts

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with the m the municipalities with a formulaic approach. Um so they cannot explicitly tell you why um the contract with u

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Westlake is 1.28 288 million. Um, and and they get eight uh deputies versus what they were proposing to uh charge the town for its five deputies. There's not a there's not a formula where you

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can apply things and say, well, that's apples or this is oranges. It's u somewhat arbitrary. What they did indicate to us in the negotiations was that if they did apply a formula, um it would not be to the town's benefit. But

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you never know that until you see what the formula is like. >> According to this, it's asking for our feedback, our findings, our recommendations, and observations resulting from an analysis. >> Yes. >> I mean, I looked at all of this and the biggest one was Westlake because you just mentioned Westlake. Westlake, they

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have eight deputies. But there's a big thing with their contract. Their contract is not for enhanced visibility. It's for dedicated law enforcement district. We have enhanced visibility, not dedicated. So, it's fundamentally a very different

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model what they have versus what we have. And according to uh Pame Shores, Lake Park, they're all the same as well. We're the only one with enhanced services. So my question has always been what are we getting for $675,000? Oh, also, [clears throat] sorry, as I

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read this further, um, when we started, um, back in 2007 all the way up into 2017, we were getting what's called regular services with the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office that provides a broad spectrum of services, whether it's um, oh, traffic suppression, arrest, 911

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calls, alarm calls, um, narcotics investigations, domestic violence investigations, robbery, theft, homicides, you name it. We always had that with Pommy County Sheriff Sauces from 2007 all the way to 2017 on upwards of about I think we started around

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240,000 up until just shy of 300,000 in 200 2016 where 2017 is about 633 um or or thereabouts. I'll look it up. I apologize. And at that point um we had

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enhanced services five deputies which they had promised us one deputy um on 247 one person to patrol our town where if there was a call he would have to he or she would have to call a

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joining district like Royal Palm in this case um maybe Wellington the acreage unincorporated just like we were when we were unincorporated. But when we say special services, what exactly are we getting for these special services? When

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I look at what was just provided just this this afternoon to us about our case reports, traffic stops, um not very significant traffic stops since we were strongarming people to do 30 miles an hour on Oktoia Boulevard. um and very

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very little little traffic stops being occurred, which I also have a question about because we were supposed to get a siphon from um any forfeitures or um traffic citations under the 316 statute, which I'm not aware we've received any

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um but you could advise me on that. Um but when I look at the CAD incidents at 111, what exactly does that mean incidents? because we've got only eight case reports, but we have 111 CADs exit. Um,

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business resident checks. Um, early in 2026, we had 643 uh business checks. No, I'm sorry, 350. We don't have that many businesses here

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in the town of Lockahi Groves. Um, then it goes to 418 again. we don't have that many businesses. I'd like to see a report from the sheriff's office exactly where these had occurred. Um because

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it just doesn't make sense. Um and then the fourth quarter in 2025 1,000. And again, I I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with this. These are large numbers and it doesn't support the businesses that we have in Palm Beach County. And I know living in our

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community, we don't have that special presence of three an additional $390,000. Those that concerns me and I just feel that's kind of wasteful spending on the town's part when we can't even be told what the special services is. I do

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appreciate the fact that the our town has worked hard at obtaining all these other uh contracts, but it's not apples to apples. >> Not at all, not even close. And each town is different. And we and the town

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of Lots of Empty Groves is very very unique. Um, and you know, for seven years, well, 2007 to almost 10 years, we had regular blank conservatives, which included everything that the sheriff has

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kindly pointed out. Full-time crime law, aviation, organized crime, prisoner. I mean, I could read just like you can. We always had those services, but now they're saying they're specially added when we've always had them. Well, I I think

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first of all with respect to the the contract um if you compare the agreement for Westlake and and the town of Loxahhatchee Groves, they are almost identical in terms of the form of the

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the contract. Um I agree with that. I mean, I looked at >> Well, they're the exact same. Yes. And >> are but what they are providing >> and so th and and those those services

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for the um when they say the sheriff will additionally provide to uh the town when necessary at no additional cost the full service crime lab etc. What they're doing is they're

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acknowledging that they have these wonderful things available if they are needed, but they are paid for out of the the main budget of the um of the sheriff's office. The sheriff's office is budget the the full budget is

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something on the order of >> 2 billion >> 1.2 billion. Yes. Um, and if you look at what the town was paying, $680,000 or so, um, that's less than,

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um, I think it's less than 710,000 of the the budget. Um if you looked at a household budget of um $100,000

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um our contribution to that is something on the order of $70 to put it in perspective as to what we mean or don't mean to the the sheriff. Um, and so

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the >> I think a big thing for our residents and everyone to understand is what we get with our county's taxes versus what we get with the town of Lockachi Groves paying 675,000. People, I think, are under the understanding that

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calling 911 is part of that 675. And it's not. We get countywide law enforcement. We get investigations, jail operations, aviation, SWAT, dispatch, crime labs, marine units, county patrol functions, general sheriff's op options. Um, no matter what, if we didn't have

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we're not paying on a contract, we still get our emergencies taken care of. We still have crimes in progress, serious incidents, major accidents, and county law enforcement responsibilities. They are going to still come for all of that. So, why are we actually paying twice? I

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understand where Todd came from. I asked the question, why are we paying dumple? Because it seems like it. What are we actually getting for $675,000 besides seeing a cop here and there? I see more so deputies now than I ever did

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before. I don't know if it's just I'm paying attention more. >> That was my question, too. And this other sheet that we were handed is a bit helpful. It gives response to average response times from 2025 to 2026. Um,

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and from overall priority 911 calls, there have been in 2020 from January to May 25th of 2025, which we're just using that period for a comparison because they ran the report as of May 25th, um,

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there were 42 911 calls last year and there were 61 this year. The average response time last year was 8 minutes and 38 seconds. when we had dedicated patrol through the contract and this here um with no dedicated um patrol in

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the contact it was 8 minutes and 52 seconds. So it was you know u >> 14 seconds slower which is nothing which is just exactly nothing.

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>> Sam do you have any thoughts on this? No, I mean I think there it's clear that having a contract with PBSO does something because we have all these other towns that also have it. And I appreciate that there's no uh clarity or or detail from the

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sheriff's office as to how they come up with the pricing. So that's like an interesting challenge. Uh but I think there are you sort of limit by looking at just 911 calls. I think that there, you know,

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what it specifically says you get in terms of like dedicated officers and and specific um patrol cars like if indeed it's five people and a patrol car like 600,000 seems extremely inexpensive.

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>> We don't get that in a day. We get our we get our name on a on a vehicle. That's it. >> I know. But that's like if we had to go out and do that ourselves, >> but don't do you not already in town. But no, no, just if what you want is a

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sheriffs that are branded for the town and dedicated employees, whether you believe they're get providing them or not, that's a different question. But if you had to do it yourself, which I appreciate is not the exact alternative,

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then five employees and a probably you need at least two patrol cars, 600,000 is extremely inexpensive. >> Correct. Now it is not zero or that there's some in between and I think it is very fair to ask like what is the

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difference in in service and we and I'm not sure why we could ask this on PBSO as well like what is what do we get what do you provide for this that's different than what you provide relative to places that don't have it and that and that is a totally fair question to me forgetting

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about all the any of the detail like what is what do we From what I for that service, >> from my my research, >> those people purchased actual people. We purchased a presence in the town. That's it. >> They're getting they're getting eight

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dedicated dedicated Westlake in general is getting uh eight deputies. >> Well, eight deputies doesn't mean eight deputies out on the street. >> They are getting Hold on. I I mean the impacts looked identical to

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me besides the price and the and the number of deputies. >> Yeah. >> And so I assume that was 24-hour coverage at least. Maybe they say there are two people on call all the time or something >> in Yeah. In order to have

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in order to have uh one deputy out there on a 24-hour basis, they work eight hour shifts. So you need three people to cover that 24 hours. when you factor in vacations and all those kind of things.

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I >> Yeah, you need it used to be like four and a third or something that uh people that you needed to cover to have one person out there on on patrol. So that's essentially what you have. >> And with the fifth, you basically have

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um for at least part of the day a sergeant or so that that runs the uh the show. That's how those numbers equate. Don't don't look at that number and say, "Oh, they have five deputies out there all the time, or they have eight deputies out there all the time." The

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contracts are set up in a similar manner. Now, if you have eight, you probably do have a second patrol officer um out there. One of the things I can tell you about the uh the business residence checks that you were inquiring

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about um my understanding from discussions with uh Colonel Coleman is a lot of that is selfinitiated. Um it's not a response to a call. It is I'm I'm doing my uh I'm doing my check

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and I'll try to be >> welcome to Tractor Supply. Say hello. >> Yeah. go get my Dunkin' Donut that [laughter] business or they check out at a business to maybe do their reports um discuss another case perhaps it's a it's a

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standard procedure at the sheriff's office to do they check out um in a code and they will say you know they are at a business doing the check say >> um on the lot to head you know and they might be parked here doing the reports Um, and that just goes as a residence

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check. It would be interesting to see based on these large numbers. >> How many were there? >> How many were there? Where were they >> and for how long? Like I'm just This is This is >> Well, I mean have a law enforcement background, right? Yes, I do.

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>> Okay. I just want to >> make that clear. >> Yeah. We if we're paying for them to drive around, we want to see big numbers. We got to have a balance, >> but not stopping at Dunkin Donuts and and charging us as one of their >> Well, there's not an added charge. It's not >> No, but they're saying that they're

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checking in with the business with the commercial. >> Yeah, but that's what you want them to do. Like their job is to drive around all day. They have to get lunch. They have to, you know, that you you want them to do that. >> Okay. I think that the the primary question here is not in my view is

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certainly response times, not like what are they doing with their day at the moment. It is what are we actually getting for the dollars? And so I want to be careful that we don't just like >> get stuck on some on a detail and miss the forest of like we spend $600,000.

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what is the different and and maybe there's maybe something we can't see or whatever it is, but what do we what do they tell us the difference is? And then we can go look and say, do we think that that difference is worth $600,000? Do we think that difference is visible to the

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community or or whatever that structure is. But I think getting wrapped up on where they stop is not useful unless we have some major problem which I like our current problem is writing a big check and not understanding what we're what we're paying for. So I think we should

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start there and then dig into the details versus the other way I think we will never get anywhere. >> And Jeeoff is there any way to even get an answer to that question? Haven't we asked them that question? >> Well >> in the negotiations has anyone asked that?

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Yes. And and what what it comes down to is a definition of level of service. Um and um the sheriff's office and most um

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uh police uh that I'm aware of will not say that they won't establish a very specific level of of service. Um and one of the reasons uh for that is um

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they don't have an obligation to save us or stop crime or you know that's what they're there for but they're on a specific basis they don't have that obligation and they don't want to incur that liability. Um, so the level of

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service is always somewhat nebulous and it is up to the sheriff and there is case law to to this effect. It's totally up to the sheriff as to how um a particular sheriff in a particular county in a particular area area wants

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to um handle the dispersement of its officers and and deputies um uh to provide the the service. And you know, uh, it it's ultimately up to the voters as

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to whether they're doing a good job or not on that subject. Yeah. >> I mean, one thing that the sheriff's office did provide as well is is the crime statistics from last quarter of 2025

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uh to the fourth quarter of 2025 to the first quarter of 2026. Um, so that is certainly helpful. It looks like crime has gone down, but that could be it's really not the best comparison because you have holidays, you have other It'd be better to look at

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first quarter of 2025 versus first quarter of 2026. >> I think they've got that there for you as well. >> Do they? So >> they've got yearto date. >> Yeah. Year to date. >> Yes. >> And 25 and 26. >> Negative. Negative meaning there are

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less crimes happening now than there were >> according to this it's showing less crime rate has gone down fairly significantly >> I mean you're talking incredibly small like zero like that's that's a tough to

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36 to 23 traffic crashes have gone up a little >> you'd expect arrest to go down if you reduce police presence less traffic stop. >> Same thing. You'd expect that to >> Well, I'm looking at like, you know, person and property crimes that most

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people really care the most about. >> Those have all >> laren >> none of those have gone up. Let's put it that way. It's either no change or it's gone down. >> Yeah. I'd be careful to draw conclusions. >> Oh, right. from a single data point or

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or to try to or tie that together. I'm not saying it's not tied, but that's >> I I think the general conclusion that you can make from these statistics is um that we're very lucky and we do not have a high crime rate. We did not have a high crime rate and we still don't have

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a high crime rate. >> Whatever this laminate is. >> And the other thing too is that this is an example of a soul source contract, >> right? Right. No. >> Is there any way we can request a baseline versus an enhanced service comparison? Have we done that yet?

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Um we have discuss >> yeah we've we've discussed the the concept um with them and um we have we have not been successful in

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in in them identifying here's here's a similar area in unincorporated Palm Beach County and this is the level of service that we provide and um here you guys are and and and look at that um there hasn't

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they have thus far not been willing to do this and at this point in time right now um they do not seem to be terribly interested in negotiating with us. >> Okay. So where do we go from now in our point of view for fact? >> Well I

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it was very open-ended as to what the council was asking you to to do. So I don't I don't have great direction on that. Um if you want to um you know get get more clarity from them. Uh perhaps

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you can ask them yourselves or or send a >> I mean a representative at the meeting >> are nearly identical to each other. The numbers is what's different overall. And so I think then the question back if we can't and if there as you said the the

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it's very loose or opaque as to what the actual services are. It strikes me that you're paying for these dedicated personnel and for um townlabeled vehicles.

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I mean maybe I'm wrong but like that seems like the only thing you're getting. >> Yeah. And so then the question is that what we want like for sure a town like Wellington wants the Wellington sheriff's office like look look to be like it's wet from Wellington. They have

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a very specific they don't want just like EBSO driving around. They want the Wellington sheriff which granted is the same thing and probably has a very similar level of service but that's a in my view of like how the town wants to be perceived. we can save 675,000 and put

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it towards drainage or roads or something that is imperative for our town. I think it's a bigger bang for a buck. It's my opinion. Yeah, >> agree. And we talked um you were saying Tracy about like the blanket servant services similar to what our

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unincorporated neighbors are getting right just down the road the acourage correct loss of hatchy uninccorporated just the same that we were getting from 2007 to 2017 and I agree with you is is that what we're just getting is um just

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you know the label of these nice cars that say ton of lots actually grow >> and an occasional deputy that drives by um not on my street but >> not important. >> It doesn't it >> Well, I don't think that's our decision. The point is exactly where they go is where they go. Exactly. >> No, but it's not our decision as to

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whether it's important or not for the town. Like our think >> the point for us to Yeah. Yeah. Point for us >> to recommend for the council is our understanding is >> there's not a lot of room to negotiate on price.

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>> And so then we have to decide and and and it's fairly opaque. what we can what we get for the price except that we can see it's inconsistent. >> We're on the high end but not the highest. We're on you know we're in

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terms of cost per person but we can what we do know we get at least per the contract is these labeled patrol cars and dedicated personnel. We don't after a very short few months of of data, we

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don't see like a obvious change in from the town perspective. But what we do get is this other thing. >> I'm also I'm also wondering if PBSO has just kind of been quiet about this because they don't want other towns to say, "Hey, maybe we need to look at this as well. What are we getting for our for

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$1.9 million?" I mean I think there is there is a benefit from a resident standpoint like when you call the sheriff when we have dedicated personnel it's the same person or two people that different people that come which is like a very different than just calling a huge organization and having a random

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person come home. I do think there's a value for the town. >> How do we know who's random and who's not? I've called I called because we had a situation called 911 the um not the emer non-emergent line. I had two two deputies show up within four minutes, which is incredible.

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How do I know that they're part of the town, not part of the town? You wouldn't. >> Well, you wouldn't. >> I don't like if you if you if you like We had to have trailers registered, right? You have to have the like VIN >> inspection. >> I just called the 911 non-emergent line. >> Yeah. Yeah. They come out.

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>> Let me finish. So, we It was non-emergent. It was like a trailer vin inspection, but we did it over the course of two years on like four or five different things and it was the same two people that showed up and so not together like alternating and so then

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like you know the person you're like oh you're the sheriff for the town of Lockach girls like that or like one of the you know three or four people I don't I think there is a value to that for the citizens. I'm not saying it's worth $600,000, right? >> But there is a potential of value where you say, I know the like they're they

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are people who I know as opposed to you're in a big city and like you're never going to know the police, which is what you would what you trade for. And I'm sure like that's not every resident. That's not a value that's like you can put a dollar figure on, but there is

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some benefit to that. And the same with the police cars that say the town there's a value saying oh like there this town has police and like has the same like depend with visitors or resident. >> Well, they have a fire department right there too. Do you know them all? They're there every third day. No, I think that

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that sounded a little sarcastic, but um but the >> the point here is that the you're paying something specific and I think we can be reasonably specific about what we're getting and then the council has to

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decide whether we need to do something more than have them the council decide whether that's worth the the funding or not. And if and then you let the whole town operate, right? like if most of the residents think it was worth the cost, then they voted a new council and that council brings it back, >> right?

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>> And if most of the residents are totally happy, then you remove the cost and move on. >> So, I'm glad you brought up a point about the residents because I think the residents perception of safety >> um really has changed when um the media got a hold of what had happened um and

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like, oh my gosh, we don't have law enforcement. No, we have law enforcement. They're not abandoning us. They're still going to come if we pick up the phone and call 911 for whatever it is. But we want our residents to be to feel safe. I know we're this is a financial decision that we have to make

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as well, but to know on well, it's not our decision, but it'll be the council's decision um based on recommendations is they still will have safety. They still will have law enforcement still be protected. And I think that's so important for us to convey to our

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residents. Um because there was a scare for some of our residents. And I don't want our town's people feeling safe. I want our town's people feeling safe. And when I look at the other towns that that have contracts, our little town's so unique. We're rural. We talked about our

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next step, right? What what's rural? And we are unique. And we are blessed that we don't have the crime rates that these other towns have. Um, so I like what you said about what's the difference of the

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blanket statement or blanket protection. That's something that should be addressed and it's my recommendation to say okay and if the sheriff doesn't want to have this special contract with us anymore anyway. So perhaps we just say okay what

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kind of services are we going to be getting a similar to lockahhatche similar to the acorage similar to any uninccorporated west and wherever it's going to be under a blanket sheriff department that we had

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for 10 years prior. So >> yeah, and we and we do have data at least directly from the sheriff for the last five months, which as you said, Sam, isn't a huge uh amount of time, but it's it's all we have. And and our crime rates haven't gone up. >> Thankful.

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>> And our their response times have gone up by 14 seconds, but not significant. Um I don't know. It's definitely something to consider weighing the cost versus the >> We have public comment. Yeah, Todd

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McClendon >> put together a quick spreadsheet with um the different units of the contract. >> Why didn't you hand us to [laughter] >> Can I use one of those? >> Yeah. Yeah.

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You can have mine. >> You got to keep yours for the record. >> Todd McClendon. Yeah, I was kind of disappointed that you guys weren't given a spreadsheet like this. Um, if you look at the second from the end column there where it says total PBSO employees. So, you have sworn officers and then you have civilian employees. Probably Lisa

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knows all about those different different categories. Um, if you look at Lockach Grows, we have five employees. Um, and the contract was 680,000. And you look above that, Pokei gets 25, their contract's 830,000, right? You look at South Bay, they get

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nine, almost double the amount of employees, 251,000. These are the discrepancies when I started looking through Palm Beach County and trying to figure out how are they coming up with these numbers? They're all over the place. Um, you know, and then I they don't break it out unfortunately as to how much we're

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paying for one versus the other. So you have the cost per PBSO employee at the last column. We're at 136,000. Of course, all of ours are sworn officers, which are more higher pay than the civilian officers. Um, but we talked about Sam talked about why other

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municipalities have contracts and I can tell you why. Ignorance. The ignorance is it's believed that municipalities have to provide some level of law enforcement. I was on the council when it went from 300 to 600 and something thousand. And when it was presented to us, it was it's either that or you have

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to have your own police department. And we started looking into how much their own police department and that it was $1.2 million. It was ridiculous, right? Lake Clark Shores had the smallest one and they were at 1.2 million. So clearly it was cheaper if we had to provide something to go with the $600,000 contract. So that's what we did. And it

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started eating away at me and I started getting with the town attorney. What is the requirement for a municipality to have law enforcement services? He says, well, what's the basic requirement of a municipality? Is there a statute? Is there something in the Florida Constitution? Two months later, he comes back. There's nothing. There's no

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requirement. And he this >> different attorney. >> Different attorney. [laughter] And And this attorney was that's all he does is municipal law, right? For for decades probably. So then you start saying, well then why do we have this contract? You know, we're not high

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crime. Why do we need this? So that's when we started to kind of get an adversary with the sheriff. And then he came back and he said, "You can cancel the contract, but I'm only coming to Lockachi Grows if there's an emergency. So somebody's hair's on fire, I'll be there, but if your truck gets stolen, I'm not coming there." It got nasty,

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nasty, nasty. We ended up getting back in the contract and continuing the contract. And that's happened for years and years and years. Now, finally, this time, he said, "Hey, I'm going to provide the same level of services that incorporated Palm Beach County." Which is great because that's what we're paying for in our county taxes. When we

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incorporated, we're not paying less to our county taxes. we're paying the same amount. If we don't want the enhanced service, we're fine with what the acreage in locks in locks and whatever unincorporated gets. That's what we want and that's what he's been providing. So, and you can see the difference in the

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service is minuscule what we're what we're getting. So, you know, the idea and and I and I'm not an officer. I've never played one on TV either. But right now, if a call comes into locket gross, the person might come the deputy might come from Wellington or Royal Palm Beach or unincorporated area. We might

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actually get faster service sometimes because instead of saying, "Hey, Jimmy's out there in Lockache Grove. He's got it handled. We don't need to go to Lockachi Groves if a call comes in." Now, you could pull from different municipalities in different areas. So, we might actually get better service in that regard. Um, one of the problems with the

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contract is like you like you pointed out, there is no guaranteed level of service. So, it says that we're going to have a dedicated guy as long as the sheriff doesn't feel the need to pull him off from Mara Lago or some detail at the fairgrounds and that sort of thing. And when that happens, we don't know as a municipality. That could happen 50

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hours a week and we have no idea when he's getting pulled off. However, we're not getting a credit for that. We're paying the 680,000, the full amount to have somebody here 24/7. But if he pulls him off, we have no clue and we don't get a credit back. So, you know, I say

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let's see status quo. I mean, we're fortunate that the sheriff walked away and said, I'm going to provide the same level of service. We've had six months now to see, hey, what is it going to be like? Because like we pointed out before, everybody's concerned. Oh, what's going to happen? What's going to happen now? We had the benefit of knowing what's going to happen. Right

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now, we're probably $400,000 ahead in our in our wallets. That's what's happened. Thank you. >> Excellent. So I think it would be prevalent to say we just need to know what council wants of us. Actually

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>> they they want something different you can't tell a lot but >> we can tell that >> you know the crime numbers so far not really different. The response time's not really different. And what we the only thing as far as I can

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tell we haven't seen is the same individuals and the car with the >> goes on the which I literally have never seen in my life. >> It did it did used to drive around >> but I never saw I didn't see them once.

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>> Yeah. I they I think from my perspective they >> says it >> you certainly don't see the sheriff's cars around but like that's the >> that's the difference and then we have they have to decide or the the residents have to decide whether that's something we want.

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>> Is that something we we should put to a vote or no just to see what the town what the res >> what our recommendation be? If you if you have a specific recommendation or if or if you want to appear at a council meeting or you know as the chairperson

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>> tell the council what our thought what's the next step >> well >> they ask us to review I think we're overall like we relative agreement that that it doesn't seem like there's a big change at the moment why we spend the money

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>> but here are the details of why we think that and here's what we're giving And then but what do we is that a written response like we submit it to them for their agenda or do >> and our fearless chief here to to

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discuss it with them or >> careful [laughter] >> there. I do have one more question before we would make that decision and that is in reference to >> um I know the the sheriff's office had made some allegations in their lawyer

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letter to the town that we're somehow in violation of our charter >> by not having PBSO's extra service. Um and I I'm a lawyer but not a Florida lawyer. I have my own thoughts which I won't

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provide but Jeff I mean have you evaluated that and determine made any determination whether you can make a recommendation to the council about that or do you need to get an AG opinion about that? >> I believe or not. Um what [laughter]

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what I what I have pointed out to the council um and what I see is that uh the sheriff's attorneys have not pointed to any statutory or case law to support

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their position. um and >> didn't something >> thus thus thus far they do not want to um litigate which is a good thing for everybody um to find out that question.

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We um at the council's direction, I contacted their um their council and asked about whether or not uh they would want to join us in requesting an attorney general's opinion. And I think

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that's important because um one of the things that happens if you get uh an AG's opinion um and you were not one of the requesters, a common refrain might be, well, you didn't ask the right question. So, I wanted to make

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sure we were ask the right question. >> Um and they um they did not um want to participate in that. >> Um make a report to the state, correct, about this? And have we received anything from the state

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>> telling us we're not, you know, we're in some violation of something? >> We have um they uh they sent the letter to the the governor and and the cabinet. Um and they requested relief that I don't

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think the governor or the cabinet have the authority to grant. Um the governor and the cabinet have not sent us any inquiry or uh correspondence with respect to the matter. Um to

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um for us to lose our charter um requires a uh special act of the legislature affirmed by the uh the governor. um or it can be um self-induced through a referendum of the

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the town folk. Otherwise, uh you remain a municipality. Um, and the the issue where it's always been a concern of of mine and a concern of the

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uh the council is that when it comes to seeking funding um for grants, whatever uh we might be asking Tallahassee for, um the sheriff, if they decide to oppose

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us on that, are not um without friends up there. >> Any other questions, comments? >> Are we moving on to the strategic plan? >> I think we're doing great. >> Do we want to make a do we need to make make a recommendation? Do we need to or

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>> Well, I think you have consensus recommendation. My suggestion would be one of two things. um cuz to formulate that motion and get it uh exactly perfect is probably difficult at this point in time. But if you have faith in

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your chairperson to um uh to communicate that um you could designate her for uh for that purpose. at this point in time they have not asked for

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uh they haven't put a deadline on on you to report back to them. Um and that was the other thing I was going to say. Um, we could always point to, you know, the 10-minute discussion at which you had uh

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consensus and if they want something formally from you, um, then they can request it and maybe be they can be more specific about what they want and then you can be more specific about the motion. >> Fair.

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>> Oh, the strategic plan. I think I misread this because I put something together. I didn't realize we were supposed to do this together. >> I need to go. I picked out some. >> So, me too. >> I didn't I didn't write it down.

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>> Um, what exactly are they looking? Is the council and staff looking from us for this? >> Discuss the worksheet. >> Yep. >> Yeah. and then prevent you present it to them as the chair of the committee on

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the 16th and we maybe come up with what we think the most important items are. It's it's fairly quick. There are six items, >> right? what what I think the council's looking at, they're they're trying to develop a strategic plan and they want

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to have some fundamental core values or pillars, whatever you want to call them, um as to what the community wants. Um and one of the issues obviously is everybody agrees

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um that Groves is rural. it was incorporated in part to keep that rural um atmosphere and I think what everybody's trying to

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to do is let's see if through this process with the assistance of the committees we can define what rural means and it's not my definition of rural or your definition of rural but it's the town's definition of rural so

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we can say this is what we want to maintain or strive to to be. That's >> And is this being asked of all the committees? >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. Thank you. I was Why are we What does this have to do with I did mine on both personal and financial?

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>> So, I don't know if anybody else did anybody else do it already. >> Personal I didn't bring finances into it because >> I too was a little taken back why the finance committee was. >> I apologize, but I was like, why are we

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has nothing to do with dollars. >> So, I did more on a personal of um and then I thought it would be like an open discussion. Yeah. >> Or that my take was I was handing this in. >> Same. >> And then we were going to review all of ours and then come up with like all our

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ideas >> because that's kind of what was purported to us in our email is bring this back and turn it in. >> Yeah. If you do have it, we can take it as well. >> Is the goal to have it like for the four of us or >> I've told to like have a

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>> fair consent like a reasonably >> Yeah. I I think the idea is for you all to try to come up with some sort of consensus view that your fearless leader can come up and and say this is what we're talking about. [laughter] >> Five individual.

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>> Yeah. But we should be able to narrow it a little bit. Let's just hammer through it. Okay. >> Number one, >> it's I don't say one of them's open comment. It's really only five items. >> In your opinion, what does the term rural mean within the context of the town of Lockaji Groves? Consider community identity, agriculture,

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equestrian lifestyle, open space preservation, roadway character, environmental preservation, density, and community values. Sam, you want to start? >> Uh, sure. I mean, if I had to pick one, it would be density. I think it's like lot size is the biggest from my

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perspective in terms of what makes feel rural. >> Yeah, that's um >> with that >> u and then for then I think subsequent to that that allows for more agriculture equestrian

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you know because you just have bigger parcels. >> So to me those of those sort of things to consider that I that's what I would focus on. >> Thanks. Yeah, I kind of went with like two with open spaces um incorporating um

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areas for the horses and agricultural farming, not landscaping. Um and I mean landscaping businesses, keeping it rural agricultural um community values, bringing back the community values of to our rural community and community involvement um for families and more of

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a hometown feel. >> Yeah, definitely. Like when you know the sheriff >> and the fireman [laughter] >> fireman >> apparently someone at the firehouse more than I am. >> I'm married to a fireman. [clears throat] >> I kind of put

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I kind of put all that in the same thing. Rural character includes maintaining low density living protecting agricultural and equestrian uses preserving open space natural drainage systems supporting property rights and avoiding over urbanization that would fundamentally change the community's identity. It also includes

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maintaining roadway character, limiting excessive traffic impacts, preserving environmental resources, and supporting a quieter and more self-sufficient way of life that many residents specifically chose when moving to the town of Loss. From a financial perspective, [laughter]

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um, preserving rural character also means making thoughtful and sustainable decisions regarding growth, infrastructure, public safety, and long-term municipal obligations. As a rural community with a limited tax base in a large geographic large geographic area, the town must

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carefully evaluate future costs associated with development in intensity, infrastructure expansion, drainage demands, and service expectations to ensure they remain financially sustainable for our residents. >> I agree with both of those.

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>> I think protecting our town's rural identity is really important. >> I agree. have proposed too. >> That's kind of going to go too on that one >> 100%. >> Protecting our property values directly connected. >> Yeah, I like both of those. >> Um,

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>> let's put it all together. >> I mean, I I would honestly since we are the financial committee, maybe give them to them and from a financial perspective and from the personal. I think that's helpful. >> Yeah, >> more is more helpful. I think >> I think the big thing too being rural is

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you're also having responsible planning, transparent government, fin uh fiscal accountability and preservation of the town's agriculture and equestrian heritage. It's all important components of maintaining longterm quality of our lives.

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>> I agree. Yeah. >> Sorry, >> I like the first paragraph better. It felt more concrete. >> But it was just that that's >> felt very one was personal.

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>> No, the middle one. The middle one. >> Personal. >> Oh, [laughter] anyway. Maybe I misheard. >> Sorry. >> I I I mean I completely agree with your especially with your personal one that you gave it. That's what I see is I mean

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I'm relatively new to Lock Hatche Grows. We've been here for a little over four years and it is the re we moved from Walkahhatchee to Lockahhatchee. >> No way. >> Totally did. >> Okay. >> Wahachche, Texas to Lockahhatchee, Florida. And we moved from rural, we

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were on like 10 acres and they were 10acre lots near us. And of course, Wachi also has a lot of it's a very large town, 5A school. It's but then we were in the rural section of it um which was technically not in even in the city so we didn't have to have permits for

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anything but so but we moved here because we like the rural part of it. We like the 5acre lots. We like the bigger um open spaces. Of course we have an equestrian farm so we liked the equestrian trails and you know the ability to hack the horses and do all of

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those things. Um, so that's what brought us here and I assume, you know, anybody moving here is probably what that brings them here. Obviously, we have a lot of people who've lived here for many, many years, way before we were incorporated as a town. Um, and you know, they

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probably think this is too much growth. Um, so we I think we have to strike a balance between those things, but we also have to like I I personally support businesses on Southern Boulevard because that brings in some money to our tax base. And it's Southern Boulevard. I

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mean, you're driving down Southern whether you're in Royal Palm or, you know, Wellington or Lockah Hatchee. I mean, you're you have businesses along the whole road. Um, but co going into the town, you know, I love that it's all

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these act residential and you know, that's that's the way I think it should stay. I think a big thing also is one of the biggest reasons we moved here. It's not an HOA and sometimes it's starting to feel like an HOA and being rural, you think of rural as not being in an HOA.

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So, I think that's a big part of it as well. And and that's a balance as well because I mean some people have neighbors that have zero respect for their neighbors >> and you know break every law they can possibly break and um and create you

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know noise um pollution uh actual pollution um physical pollution on the ground from feces and other things because they're not doing things properly or bringing in dirt and flooding their neighbors properties. I mean, so that's a delicate balance, too,

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where But I agree, we didn't move into an HOA for a reason, but in the same breath, we do have laws, we do have regulations, and we need to follow those. Um, and and they just need to be reasonable. Just be like a good neighbor. I think that's something we've lost in as a whole in our humanity is

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thy neighbor. What does it mean to be a good neighbor? Most people don't even know their neighbors. I can't say I know my neighbors. I mean, I do, but I don't, you know. >> Yeah. >> Which is really sad because when I grew up, you go to your neighbors, you go play the next door. Hey, can I borrow a cup of sugar? You don't do that anymore.

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You might get shot. >> Not really. But [laughter] my partner, >> probably not. That's the problem. >> You can't get through the gate. >> Get through the gate. Exactly. [laughter] I'm jumping over the fence. >> That though like we could do some type of We have done it, I don't know, maybe

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10 years ago now. um do some community engagement, so foster some participation from our residents >> um in in our decision- making processes because they do feel left out quite often. Um and so make sure their needs in paradise, but also do some type of

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organization for community events, bring back that rural hometown feel, even if we can do it like once to see how it goes. We've done it in the past where we've done the barbecue town cleanups. We've done things for the community. I guess I'm going into the pillar, but it kind of came off what we're just talking

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about. Um I know we have and we've been doing work over on the park on Southern Boulevard and it it it's looking nicer. Um and maybe bring more people into that. >> That's the county county owns it. >> Well, they are doing work on it. It look nicer. I had gone over there.

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>> I saw the equestrian trails. That's a whole another pillar. [laughter] >> Um >> no, we've lost our hometown. >> We don't have that sense of community. And if you want to talk about rural on the rural to me would be that hometown feel. Hey, can I borrow a cup of sugar?

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I want to sit out on the porch and have a cup of coffee. [laughter] >> Let's have a glass of wine. >> Whatever it works, but to we don't have that. We don't have that sense of community anymore. Um, >> why do you think that is? I think people are afraid to get involved. People want

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to be left alone. Don't bother me between my friends. I want to be me left alone. Nobody wants to get involved anymore. And it's kind of sad. >> I don't think that's everybody. I think um well, we should Facebook keyboard warriors, too. But >> yeah, um you have both. And I think if

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we offered it to the community and got the community, show that the town really does care. I really believe that with our new council, we can move forward um and let and more stuff for our community. Um and give it a chance, try

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it for them. Um it would be little to no cost. We could do pot block. We could do something like that. So that's like a pillar, but I know >> I mean we do have the anniversary coming up. Hopefully that could be a start of something fresh for us as a town. >> That would be >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I agree.

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>> You want to go on to number two. >> Sam, go ahead. Take it away. >> I have to go first again. >> I said number one. [clears throat] >> I I feel like I started. Um so uh Oh, you mean weeding? >> Yeah. >> Oh, I got I got to need these then.

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Okay, here we go. uh identify three to four major continuing pillars that support the town's overall vision, quality of life and protection of resident property values. We have to support that. Uh examples, rural preservation, I think we talked

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about that. Infrastructure and drainage, we touched on public safety, we spent too long on that. >> Uh community engagement, I think it's a great idea. We've already touched on uh agriculture and and equestrian support. I think we probably haven't touched on as much. um and government transparency

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which is from a finance standpoint probably particularly focused on the numbers but uh I mean that's where we are strategic pillars this is tough to me >> because you got so many different ones there's a lot >> for a lot of different people but >> I mean to be honest the government

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transparency it shouldn't have to be a pillar it should just be there should be just there >> yeah I agree I think we should focus on the rural preservation that seems like the most important at least the four of us. Um I love and then the agriculture

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and equestrian. >> Uh and then I love the community engagement aspect. >> I like to me those three are the strongest. And then hopefully with that engagement and support of agriculture and preservation, you're building on the transparency and and sort of assembly of the

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>> needs. I think that government transparency goes with fiscal responsibility. That's a big one, >> right? with the um with the agriculture. I know there's a lot of local farming in here in our community and some people don't even know half the local farms and I I

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went and got eggs from the local farm the other day. I was like, "Oh my god, I can't even believe you exist here." And there's a real farm and approved and beautiful and everything. And just like the town of Royal Palm, they have like the little farmer market. >> We could incorporate that sometime. I don't know. I'm just starting to throw

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out some ideas of pillars for for our town for the more rural >> have a little farmers market. I know >> we do have one swank >> which is phenomenal if you haven't been. >> I have been to Spanks. Yes. >> And I don't know if they're totally local though. Local within our community.

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>> They're not totally local within our area, but I don't think local to Lockach Groves. >> Well, the other question is can other people bring goods there? Because I mean a true farmers market would be sort of open to the public to bring anything and have your little table. >> Yeah. And they all pay for that and you

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know you pay your $10 fee per week or whatever. But you bring >> condos. >> Right. Right. And that's a little more of a traditional farmers market than um I think you know the business of the farmers market if that makes sense. >> I mean how could we put something like that together if that's something that

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you know the town wants to do? >> Yeah. I mean, if we have a space for it, it's it's probably pretty inexpensive to >> You've got a couple things that um space um is an issue. Um you also have to look

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out for the competing areas. Um I know, for example, that I've um gone up to Palm Beach Gardens and I've seen uh Joe there with his mushrooms, you know. So, uh, that might be a one of the things you have to look at. We are small and

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rural and they've got to look out for where their product is going to be able to be sold um, better. So, you're you're in a competitive environment when it comes to farmers markets around here. >> I do think the the point that we got on the farmers market was around,

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>> right? And >> so I don't think it has to be a farmers market per se, although that and we have a couple swag and Pullman's. >> So maybe we could incorporate into their market and sort of have a town get together or so some other business in town. But I think

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>> no more going to be on the website, but on the website all of our local >> agricultural people >> there. I know that there was discussion about like a farm tour type of thing that uh people could engage in. Um I

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don't know where that's at, but uh I know that there had been some discussion about that, you know, to kind of expose the wonderful businesses, wonderful farm businesses that we have in town. >> But want to just >> I mean farming by definition is a

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business. [laughter] Section four. >> There's no three. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There's no three. >> Okay. Community concepts and initiatives. Identify one to two concepts, programs, initiatives, or ideas that would help promote or

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encourage the strategic pillars identified from above. Examples may include the equestrian trail system. touched on it a little bit. Agricultural education, agurism branding, um, which I see that going on right now on Okobee

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and historic preservation initiative and also community events, which was kind of >> that's fun as well. >> So, they're wanting us to come up with two. >> I think we do. >> I mean, from our what we've discussed so far, it seems like community events,

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what do they end up being the most of our Yeah% times right now. >> No. >> And then >> as far as it being >> a lot of it I have a lot of >> preserve >> community events educational

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partnerships responsible agurism opportunities preservation focusing planning policies initiative could also encourage residents engagement while supporting local agricultural businesses and reinforcing the town's unique identity within Palm Beach County. Kind of the same thing we've all said. Yeah, I

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>> think a tourism is something that we could address with um with the branding of it and um what is going on, what should be going on >> um should be addressed by council. >> Yeah, agreed. >> Five.

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>> Okay. Board priorities and request to town council. Please identify projects, initiatives, policies, or priorities that your board or committee believes should be requested of the town council for consideration. And then they request five priorities.

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>> I have developed a long-term financial stability plan, multi-year budgeting instead of yearly budgeting that we don't stick to. >> Yeah. No, I totally agree. >> Yeah. >> Um, anybody else have anything? I have lunch.

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Review and strengthen procurement contracting financial transparency policies to ensure competitive practices, public accountability and clear reporting of major expenditures. reoccurring contracts and emergency or sole source purchase loads. Prioritize prioritize infrastructure and drainage

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improvements that directly protect resident property values, roadway safety, flood mitigation, long-term resiliency while remaining consistent with the town's rural character and fiscal capacity. >> Here's here's your Sam. >> Continue evaluating public safety

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service model. >> There we go. Perfect. [laughter] >> Got it all. agreements long-term cost structures to ensure ensure service levels remain effective, financially sustainable, and appropriate for the unique needs of our rural community and support policies and planning

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initiatives to serve the town's agricultural and equestrian heritage. >> Perfect. Yeah, those are I agree. >> Six additional comments or ideas. >> I think we've already had so many ideas. [laughter]

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Um this is what I have just because I wrote it. Um, no. >> I would say I would say for anyone I don't know how many people are listening or go back and watch this, but if you have thoughts or ideas of how we can make this a better community, um, you know, please reach out to your council

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members, to your town manager, um, to one of us, whatever. Uh, so that we want I think everybody, including the town council, wants to hear your ideas. You know, we really do want to hear from, >> you know, what the rest of the residents

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want. We don't want to just be up here dictating to people. We want to know. >> Exactly. I believe it's important the future planning effort to remain focused on balancing rural preservation with long-term financial sustainability and responsible governance. Logatic Groves is unique in both its character and

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physical layout. Future decisions should carefully consider the long-term impacts of infrastructure expansion, development intensity, operational costs, drainage demands, traffic patterns, and public safety obligations. Maintaining the town's rural identity will require

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thoughtful planning, fiscal discipline, transparency, and continued resident engagement. I believe the town would benefit from increased long-term strategic planning efforts that include measurable goals, infrastructure priorization, financial forecasting,

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periodic review of major service contracts, operational expenditures, protecting resident property values and quality of life should remain central to the future policy discussions and budget decisions. >> I mean, if you just give that paper to the council. >> Oh, yeah.

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I make a motion to for Lisa to I mean for Tracy to give her her paper to the council. Any other questions, comments? Look at this. 6:48. We have any other comments and questions?

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>> Um I'd like to make a motion to plan our next meeting. Let's put it on the schedule >> instead of us leaving here questioning it. >> Right. the the huh you mean as far as what would be on the

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agenda or are you talking about the date? >> Make a motion for a date of our next meeting. >> Yes. So the >> somebody has a second >> the date is scheduled >> we don't have a scheduled date as of now because you guys are as needed. So it's up to your guys' availabilities

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>> as needed. It's been nine months actually longer. I'm thinking I would like some time to look over that um site >> Yeah. and review exactly what the financials are so we can actually have a more educated

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>> idea of what we're talking about when it comes to >> where the money's been going >> and how it has been so we can make better educated recommendations to council. >> I think an important thing also because I have >> make a public comment. Can I finish my

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thoughts? Thanks. Um, forgot my thought process. Um, because we have new people is what our job, what is our job as fact members, as a committee. What is our act job? Because it continually changes every year. This is my fourth year and it changes every year. What does council

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want from us? I think that's a very important thing for us to know because we get packets from the years past. I get packets and then we look at everything and they want we were told, "Oh, you didn't give us you didn't tell us what we should do." Well, we really didn't have a meeting. So, when we have

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these meetings, this has been the first one that we've actually been able to talk. It's usually everybody's presenting to us and we're trying to divulge all this information. So, it would be good for everybody to know what is expected of us and what the town council really wants us to focus on.

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Um, I can tell you that upcoming highlights and there hopefully get direction as to whether they want you to continue with this, but certainly the procurement manual is uh an item. You do you will have an audit presentation um

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that will be forthcoming >> soon. >> Audit uh presentation. We're looking at completing the audit um process by certainly by the end of the month, but >> yeah, by the end by the end of June. >> So, at your next meeting, you would

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anticipate a an audit presentation. >> We also ramp up for uh budget >> budget. Yeah. And deny that though, but there's quite a few, you know, you've heard uh there's quite a few things we have to look at. Uh your property values

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were the top five uh in all of Palm Beach County. year >> as far as a percentage increase. >> Yeah, as far as a percentage increase goes. But so we have to look at that. But then the other thing too, uh I've got a request out there from Palm Beach County to look at home homesteaded

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properties versus non homesteaded properties. Most of my other clients, it's going to devastate them, right? Uh but they'll have to, you know, raise the millage significantly to those properties that are not homesteaded. So we'll have these have the discussion.

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>> Is that is that in response to the state's legislation about reducing homestead taxes? Is that okay? >> Yeah. >> Yes. And so we'll we'll look at that. You know, 80% of your income comes from property taxes. And so what's that mean?

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And so, and of course it it it's kind of a challenge because once you start that ball rolling, the current snapshot that we have of homesteaded properties versus non-homesteaded properties, that'll grow dramat, you know, drastically. And so,

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you know, so what what does it look like? And so, at least we'll just at least have the discussion, maybe a [clears throat] couple slides on it. It's just for planning purposes as a a whatif. Doesn't seem practical. Uh but you know, we'll we'll have the discussion. >> Well, we'll we'll have a much better

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idea. Obviously, there's a um special session of the legislature uh that is ongoing and is supposed to go on for the next couple of days, and they um are in all likelihood uh going to come up with something that would be presented to the

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voters um in November and and be effective not this year, but if approved would be effective the the following year. I think it would be beneficial for us as a fat committee to have a workshop with the town council as our first with

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the budget with all the financials. >> So you're not doing it five times. >> Well, no, last year was a record. It was six 16 I think 16 hearings. Uh anyway, uh yeah, I mean, you know, again, it's uh when when you look at you got to look

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at a a big picture in a municipality, you know, you you look at property taxes, what are they? What's the change of the value? Then you look at what's your biggest cost? Well, that's labor, right? And and health insurance and and pensions and so on. So, so you look at

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the the the big the big dollar amounts. And then, you know, how much we want to throw at capital our capital needs. what what do we want to do there? So, yeah, uh the >> the uh the idea, yeah, is that we'll throw some uh we'll put the numbers

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together. We'll look at 2016, how we're already vetting out. We'll look at 2015. We'll look at 2016, and then we'll look at 2017 as far as here are some assumptions that we've made. We we already know 80% of your revenue. We we have that if the millage rate doesn't

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change. Uh but that's up to you. and so or not you but uh the commission and so you know yeah we'll we'll look at all that >> Jeff can we do that as a workshop with town council when we go over all this >> you can you can request that of town

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council >> I think it would be bene >> and it would be up to town council to to do that um what is your all's availability for uh a meeting you had suggested uh that you wanted to get a meeting and we got about two minutes to

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make that decision Also, I don't know if we still have the public comment from Council Member Kane. >> Oh, sorry. Sorry, Anita. That's okay. I just wanted to say that I was supporting what you said and you're right on point. It's not fair for you guys to get the numbers at the last minute and then be asked for an opinion when it's at the

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11th hour or whatever. And it's something that >> has been kind of an ongoing issue. So, I'm fully in support as a resident of >> them getting together sooner than later and seeing the numbers and having something intelligent to say instead of

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having 40 pages of numbers to go through >> 24 hours before a meeting and then give a recommendation. It's just like it's not there. So, >> especially when you have lots of questions before and support you 100% in like get your meeting plan and get started now because the budgeting

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process is coming up and I know council counts on you guys for your input. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Um yeah, preliminary trim uh will probably be adopted in our July meeting. So, um it is right around the corner literally.

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>> So, what are we trying to >> what's our next meeting? What is supposed to be our next meeting? There was a lot talked about today. >> So, you want to do like the first week of July? >> Yeah, you guys can do the like the first week of July, the same kind of date as

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this date would be July 6th. Um, just the council meeting would be the day after. So, it just be tight turnaround. You can also do the end of June the 22nd, not the 22nd, the 23rd to through the 26th. That's good availability as well for the town. I'm in Ireland that

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week. You guys I could I don't know because I'd be sleeping by this time. >> What do you guys think? >> If we can't come to a consensus for the time, I can also email and call you guys individually. >> I can do the 29th. >> Did you say the 29th? Monday. >> Um

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>> anytime that week. >> If it's the Monday. >> Yeah. >> That would give us a week before counseling week. >> That should be good. If there's anything that comes up, I'll let you guys know. >> I can do it remote. >> Are we remote? But we want to see your beautiful face here. >> You know, you're gonna have to imagine this

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>> all the time. FaceTime. >> Well, actually, he did, but we couldn't hear him. So, make sure >> you're good on that. Um, the 29th at what time? >> Six. You want sex? >> I mean, this I like I like I like consistency.

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>> I'm fine with that. I think we um uh the manager would like that to be in the form of a request for direction from the council as to the time uh simply because there's the allocation of

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resources. So um I I understand the our understanding of the request is uh June 29th at six o'clock. >> Okay. And then I make a motion. I make a motion.

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>> That's too much. Uh, I'd like to make a motion for our next back meeting January Juan uh June, not January, June 29th at 6 PM. >> Second the motion. >> All in favor? >> I

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have a motion to adjurnn. A motion to adjurnn. Second motion. [laughter] Thank you. That's