Wow. >> Just a week. >> Very standard. I'm g have to wait for the seed. So I can see over my little decorations. But it's very festive. It's very nice. Very very fast. Okay. December 16th down blocks ahead town
council meeting now come to order. If I could have a black stand for the pledge of allegiance first you walked in just in time. >> Yes ma'am. >> Start back up. To the flag of the United States of America to the republic for
which it stands. One nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all. And just a moment of silence. Some pretty horrible things happened in the world this last week. So, we could all keep those people in our memories.
All right. And if I could have a roll call now. >> Council member Coleman >> here. >> Council member El Remy >> here. Council member McClendon >> here. >> Vice Mayor Herszog >> here. >> Mayor Kaine >> present. >> Town manager Ramaya >> here.
>> Town attorney Kurtz >> here. Community Standards Director Gardenner Young, Public Works Superintendent Craig Lowour. >> Okay. Do we have any additions, deletions, modifications? >> South.
Okay, perfect. Then we have a real short agenda to get through in the next half hour. So, uh, uh, number item number one, a presentation, Mr. Curts on the Sunshine one-way communication. Well, this is presentation and discussion and
in light of the the time period, I'm hope that that you all read my memorandum. Uh the question as I understood it was whether or not one-way communication uh between an individual council member and the rest of council
uh would necessarily be a violation of the sunshine law. The answer is no. Um but it is problematic uh because if there is a response um then you do get into a sunshine law
violation. >> Well, in the way I read it, it's even if there's a perception of a response or a question from the public, then we get into a lot of situations of trying to defend ourselves where we live in a in a society where we know that accusations >> Yeah. >> abundant.
>> Yes. And so my recommendation to you is that you do not do so or you do so in very limited circumstances. Um and in the best of all worlds um do it in a way that
one of you would say I'm going to make I've got some information that I want to share with you. Um I'm going to send it off uh to you. Please do not respond and we'll discuss it at the meeting. and actually announce that to everybody that
you're not blindsiding them with with something um that may come up um or you're not jumping out and being the first one on the issue um which effectively could render the rest of you
uh mute um because uh I can't say anything that might be in response to to this or I'm concerned about responding to that or I'm going to frame my memorandum in a way that's not directly responding to it, but I'm going
to talk about the issue over here. That's that's the difficulty. >> We can still share information through the clerk's office, like you said, if we come up with something in our research on our own or whatever and send it to the clerk and ask her to distribute it to the other council members. That's still within
>> Well, you can that's real that's really the same thing. What you can't what you can't do with that is um go to the the clerk or my office or to the town manager and say, "I'd like uh to to
share this with the rest of the council." And then the other council members respond in a way um to whatever was was sent because then you would be putting the clerk in a position of being a a conduit. do it.
>> Um, but if you want to just put information out there and say, "Put this on, I'd like to have this on the agenda for for discussion." Um, or I'd like the the other council members to to receive this as a part of the agenda package and
we can discuss it at the the meeting. I'm not asking for a response. Those are all ways that that it can be managed. Um, >> I think Lee has a question for you. Is that your light on over there? >> Yeah. Sorry, I can't tell if it's >> um
>> this this was some this was something that I brought up at the workshop in uh October, I believe, and about creating a policy that this information could be shared um in a one-way format. Um obviously I shared a concern I had
because I felt it was a timesensitive matter and I referenced some AGO opinions etc. So, I think what I'd like to do is whether this is a discussion item tonight is whether we're going to adopt that policy and if it's going to be a policy as as Jeff is elaborating
on, whether that goes through the clerk or it's a requested agenda item. I think th those are all great, but I I think for time-sensitive things that that oftentimes we we're overwhelmed by the agendas themselves. I'd like to see it
as a policy and not just a discussion tonight and just well I I think this should be this or that. I think it should be created into actually a council policy because we have a council policy >> saying that we can't do it. >> Well, I don't know if it says we can't.
I don't recall exact >> saying that we shouldn't do it. >> Yes. Um but so that that was my point of of bringing this up. So I just want to click >> I mean interestingly with respect to um the item in that council ra council
personnel Ramy is um mentioning when I when I read that that particular item um I'm not sure that communication back and forth on that would have been a violation of the sunshine law. I think if there had been
communication, somebody would have raised the the issue. But when you look at that particular issue, those items really weren't going to go to the council for a decision. And remember that the violation of the sunshine law
is whether or not you're discussing something that is likely to come before you uh to make a decision on. It is not necessarily, you know, it's not every single issue that may come up. It's whether or not um it
would come to you. And in those particular circumstances, the um the location of the event was essentially a um a staff or town manager decision that you have not typically um weighed in on
um as a as a body. Um and then uh the potential code enforcement action is once again something that does not um come to you um at the initiation. It's way down the road when they might be
asking for relief or we're asking for foreclosure. So that that's a that was an interesting one. I think your cautionary u information and everything was really good, but that that baseline question as to whether or not that would actually have come before council is is
something. But I don't want you guys to have to think about all things. >> Air on the side of over caution interpreting it and we're super cautious because we're a small town. Everything's going to end up coming back to us, >> right? Whether >> we're sitting here at the time or not, >> right?
>> So I think we always er on the side of >> Well, that's that's what I wonder. That's why I wonder about the the and let's just think about it. I'm not I'm not saying no, but that's what I wonder about the um desiraability of actually writing a policy or just continuing on using
common sense because when we write a policy, >> I'd like to be able to share information that well to get your information if you come across something and whether it goes through and we just make sure that there's no filter at the staff level of
what goes out. Like if we say please share this with every council member, it goes to every council member. It doesn't, oh, we're going to hold that for this agenda item and no, if it should be transmitted, it should be transmitted. >> Well, then we know to then we know as a whole not to respond, >> right? Either way, >> I mean, that's that's I mean, yeah, I
think to Anita's point, once you make it a policy, if somebody, you know, >> crosses that Yeah. dots and eyes. >> I think most of us have had the >> Listen, I don't travel north of Okchobee anymore. You know, all y'all live north of Okobee except for Marge. I stay away
from neighborhood, too. >> Just don't go over there no more. >> That was just my point of bringing this up. So, where where it goes, you know, I just was wanting to make it a bit more official and clarify. So maybe Jeff, you could bring back what a policy might look like if we had a if we were to have
a policy, but we could decide. But I I personally am just not sure that I want to put it in the category of a policy. >> The policy is already pretty well written. It's state law, right? It's ethics, correct? And so I don't know if we follow that. >> By ethics, we can share information one
way, >> right? So that's the judgment. That's what you're asking. >> He's saying we can't. >> Yes. Right. >> He's just saying be careful. I mean, you read the whole packet, right? And you saw that there there are actually other councils that have like put out like position each of them will put out a position which a little scary
>> which is a little scary for me. >> I'm not doing that >> that kind of stuff. >> I'm not doing that. >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't want that kind of stuff on on my conscience. Um, but I think that, you know, to your point, if we just continue to follow state law and use our judgment, but if there's a bit
of information that we come across that's an important bit of information, if we disseminate it to the other council members prior through the clerk's office, I I don't think there's any problem with that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And and I don't think it requires writing a whole new policy
>> and just we've all taken that ethics training on our own time, right? But on our own time and you know, >> Yeah. not at a weekend workshop. >> I'm sorry, Jessica. >> Um, and just uh the Huff versus Stembridge um case, it's an old case
that I cited to you all um with respect to the the proposition that um a quorum doesn't have to be present. And uh what actually occurred in that case and the reason I cited it and wanted to just
mention it, it was a situation in which there was one council person who was actually on the council at the time um and there was another council person who
had been elected but not sworn in yet. Um, and with election season coming on, I want you to be cognizant of that, even if the person is not sworn in yet, if they have um if they are elected or um
there is no opposition and they are in line for the the spot, um you can have a Sunshine Law violation um prior to them actually being seated as a council person if you discuss something.
Yeah. So, with election season coming on, I just uh wanted to remind you of all that because you guys will be going through that stuff. >> Okay. Let's move on to item number two. Discuss direction with respect to the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Contract. Um Jeff, I guess that's probably you as
well. Uh yeah, the the town manager and I uh met with uh the sheriff's representatives again and um they they understand um that
the town council has been supportive of the sheriff's office individually and collectively uh as an organization and it is not a performance issue. that leads you to um not fund the the
contract. It is actually a funding issue. Um and they recognize that and uh their suggestion in part was well you do have these resources that are coming
from the Redspeed contract at least uh for uh a short bit of time until behavior is changed. Um, and based on uh the manager's report at the last meeting, uh, that would support a
couple months of the the contract and whether or not you guys would consider um using those funds uh to continue paying for the contract and not have us in a breach situation. That's what they
wanted uh us to consider. Um and they did indicate with respect to the the services that they were um at this
point in time going to continue services with the exception uh that the rede processing um is being put on hold. um that they wanted us to get a permit deputy for our
meetings, which is something that we would contract uh for. Um and the the third thing that they uh advised us of but they didn't give us a a date is that um
under their reading of the statutes, municipalities are supposed to supply crossing guards for um the schools um within the the town. Um and that that is
something that they had been paying for under their uh under their contract and you know something that we we were getting for the contract and they indicated although they haven't given us a date um that that service would stop.
So I they also told us that there was uh two types of crossing guards. one um set of crossing guards are employees of the sheriff's department and then they also do contract um with a vendor who
supplies crossing guards to them um and that they would give us the contact information for those folks so that we could enter into a contract if that became necessary. Once again, no dates as to when the transition would come uh
about. I don't know whether or not they've supplied us with that contact information. Um I suspect they're they're waiting to to see whether or not there's any interest in uh continuing to to fund uh the contract. The the other
thing that they did advise us of is that um uh they have hired um outside counsel uh to look into this situation and and advise them on that. So they have not um
decided exactly how they're going to to move forward in the absence of of funding. um and they are encouraging us to find a a source and they believe that there is a source in the uh in the red speed monies at least on a uh on a
temporary or interim basis. Um so that's that's where uh we are at >> Sorry to cut you off. >> Nope. >> Yeah. >> So it it's not really questions, it's more statements. So they talk about the
school crossing guards. However, that intersection is outside the town boundaries. >> Right. >> Right. But Jeff has to do research on whether it's the school that determ the location of the school, which is clearly inside our boundary for that. But so that's research to be done. But but yes, you are correct.
>> So and it was never mentioned in our contract that we that we were going to provide those beforehand. You know, the the crossing guards that wasn't in our contract. There's an obligation that >> all incorporated Palm Beach County doesn't get charged extra for their crossing guards either, but that's okay, >> right?
>> Um, you know, we've had these meetings that were supposed to be quote unquote negotiating. And I know Paul never met with him. Lisa met with him very shortly. Probably was a smart thing to do to have it short meeting with him, right? Yours was pretty short. Yeah.
>> I mean, was as long as it needed to be. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there there's no negotiation and and on top of that, they don't send somebody here that can make a decision. So, every time there's been a meeting with staff or with council, it's never been somebody from the sheriff's department that can make an answer. It's always I got to get back to you. I've got to get
>> Well, yeah. I mean, their answer has been that they there was a 1% reduction. Um, and there has been been anything further. Um, we did discuss as is set forth in in the
materials. um where uh the needs for service are. Um and there was some discussion on uh a twozone concept for the uh for the town. Um
their reaction to that was um if if you all want to to look at it that way, we'll cooperate with you and give you information. Um and if you want to fund a twozone
concept, uh that would be up to to you. I think that's a fair statement of where their position is right now. Um, but the overall dollars we're not going to change.
>> So if so, so inevitably what's the difference if we go from what we're doing now to whatever the two zone con concept is. >> What is the difference? Because they're not >> this question. So let me explain what the deal is. So the deal is what they're
saying is if we get the southern the business corridor defined and and create a special tax district and char and get and are able to charge more taxes, they will support us in providing the data that that is where 80% of our crime occurs. >> Support us with providing the public
record. >> Correct. Okay. I'm just I'm just letting you know what I asked this question because I was like, "Oh, so they'll let us do the you know, you just do services there." No, that's not what they're saying. Basically, what they're doing is they're very kindly offering us a solution to our funding problem by
saying that if we could just get this business corridor in place and char and create a special t taxing district and charge more taxes to those business owners so they're actually paying for using most of the services, but there is no reduction of the contract amount. >> My my my argument has been since we
started paying this extra, right? We it's been some time now that we we started paying. It wasn't right after we incorporated, but was shortly thereafter, right? Oh, was right after. So, you know, my argument has been since I was sitting over there was why are we getting double build, right? Why? Why is
this not you know I mean we just had a meeting last what two weeks ago and we're supporting fire rescue with their efforts to maintain the MSTU etc etc right they haven't increased their their their fee in how long >> 17 years
>> 17 years right and they're getting paid off an MSTU out of the Aborum right there's other counties that do this right we're we're part of a select few I guess that that this is the way we operate but it's not really negotiating contract when there's no negotiation. I
mean, if you went to buy, you know, you know, a McLaren for, you know, half a million dollars or whatever they are, quart million dollars and they said, "Well, we'll give you 7,000 off." You'd be like, "Oh, cool. Thanks." But, you know, you know, that's a set of tires, right? It's like 6 $675,000,
right? $7,000 is like, you know, that's, you know, I just don't understand why we can't have a true negotiation as to, you know, this cost this, this cost this, this cost this. Where where do we fall? Right? That that's I think that's the
hitch. That's where everybody is. It's not, you know, we understand there's there's, you know, this this department does it this way, this department does it that way, but we can't, you know, and to say that, you know, well, so it seems like if if we don't, you know, we're going to have to
fund our own uh crossing guards, pay our own crossing guards, right? That's way less than $630,000 a year. You know, we're going to have to, you know, >> we lose red speed because nobody else will do red speed. >> Nobody else will do red speed. So, or we have to pay them. But they won't do
that. >> Speaking of which, >> right, they won't just say, "Okay, listen. Well, it's going to be X." So, it's almost like, well, Red Speed didn't exist. So, it's almost like crossing guards and somebody sitting in the back with $630,000 or $675,000, excuse me. >> Right. So, speaking of which, you know,
they're trying to use the kids as a leverage point. Oh, we're not going to do red speed, right? So, we're trying to, you know, make the school zone safer and they're going to withhold doing the red speed so they can get their 675,000. And I don't think that's right. You know, we're trying to protect those kids
and they're saying we're going to use them as a bargaining chip, >> right? >> And that's that's wrong. Um, >> and let it be known, it is not it is not the frontline deputies that are the issue. We have we take umbrage with no we support the frontline deputies just
like we support the frontline firefighters. You know, we listen, my dad was a firefighter. My uncle was a firefighter. My other uncle, he died of a injury that was sustained while trying to stop somebody as when he was a correction officer in that jail right there on Gun Club Road. So, my family is
a longtime service family. It's not about, you know, not supporting the deputies. It's not that's not what it's about at all. It's about, you know, there's a town that's, you know, smaller mileage square miles wise or,
you know, but it's more highly dense and yet they got a deal in perpetuity. some time ago and they don't even have to pay anything extra. >> They do, but it's a small Oh, it's a small amount, right? >> 200,000. >> So, it's it's like it needs I think it needs to be, you know, I don't think that we have increased
the need as much has been portrayed since we've incorporated to warrant the 675,000. I you know, >> well, and it's never been portrayed that we have high crime here. They simply said we have very low crime. >> Can we let Lisa her lights on? Can we let her chime in?
>> Yeah. I don't know why this was number two because this is a this is a big topic. I didn't wasn't even expect to see it tonight. >> So I think that there this has always been a budget tipping point item and Marge might be able to elaborate more that it was it was the understanding even at the
time of incorporation and the need to to um include this at the Tallahassee level to get approval to become a town. And this has always been a a budget concern for the town. This is
nothing new. It's just it's kept pace with our revenues and I I do find it disconcerting that the the well you have money from red speed and you should use that to but these are revenues that that
we are hoping will al offset our other cost not cover an exist it's like we'll do the lottery and you know the schools will have more money but then we just take out the budgeting for schools and make the lottery pay for everything so there's no more money for the school. So, I think this is a long-standing
issue for the town and I I stand with Paul on and even Todd's comment, the justification to increase these numbers on the town have not really existed. So, >> no, I mean, you look at the hotspot map, right? The hotspot map, except for some
growth there, right? The, you know, there's been DUIs up and down Southern Boulevard, Noachchobee Boulevard since I've lived here. I'm 51, by the way. Moved here when I was two, in case nobody's keeping record. Um, you know, there's always been those in you've had cars in the canal. We've had, listen, I
remember when guys, and I'm not saying people need to do this, but I remember when guy when landowners used to ride around on their horses and kind of patrol the area, but that that's a little too far back in the day. We're a little more dense than we were now. We got a few more families, but I mean, these things and the you see them, you
know, the things that people bring up, you know, these have always been our issues. the, you know, the random person wandering onto an unlocked gate and stealing a side by side. It's bad. Or stealing a tractor. It's bad. This has always been an issue here. The the the
increase due to incorporation because we have some commercial um you know, as far as we were told, we can't increase the taxes on the commercial. I'm still wondering how that's going to like we can't do bed tax anymore. We can't do this. So, we're going to have some, you know, but yet we have people coming that
want to put in some elements that are going to would bring more transient traffic when and I say transient in the nice way meaning it doesn't stay right. Um, you know, it it but to me it doesn't again there's there's not much going on here
different than it was 20 years ago. And not not to the tune of $675,000. And listen, I I realize gas and stuff is more and everything, but still >> to to bring up Lisa's point, you know, about the Red Speed, could you imagine going to the Ford dealer and say, "I'm looking for a $50,000 F150." And they
say, "We've got this 120,000, you know, Cobra R F-150 version." Well, I can't afford that. I don't want that. Well, let me go through your finances. Oh, well, you can take your kid out of private school and then you can afford it. That's kind of what I feel like what's happening with the 70,000 Redspeed. Let me go through your finances and we'll find the money, right? Well, you can cut off these three
employees and that'll help fund this account. Are you serious? It's up to us to decide where these funds go, right? It's not up to our vendor to decide to go through our finances and tell us where we can afford, what we can't. That's kind of how I feel. So, I would like the town attorney to draw up a
mutual termination agreement where we can terminate the contract with them and he can present that to them. And I don't know if you need that in a motion or a consensus or what to move forward with something like that. >> If you had to have a motion, we're good. >> So, you know, I'll make up a motion. I'll make a motion for the town attorney
to draw up a a termination agreement that we both mutually agree to terminate the contract and then we start fresh and deal with speed and cross and guards and all that moving forward. >> Don't we have a policy that discussion items can't get motions, >> right? >> This has got to wait till the next
meeting. >> Well, we're not going to approve the contract. He's going to bring it back to us to actually vote on it. >> It's a consensus item. >> Well, you that I would I would agree. I would think consensus, but >> well, this is a town council special meeting as well, >> but you're on the special meeting agenda.
>> I understand, but we have a policy that we won't make motions on discussion items. It has been repeatedly complained by the public that things happen and votes happen when it's it's being presented as a discussion item, >> but but I'm asking for him to bring it back to our next meeting and it'll be on
the agenda then. >> That's a consensus. >> All right. If that's fine. >> You're fine with the consensus. >> If there is a consensus, Is there a consensus for him? >> I guess it takes three. >> Yeah. >> So, >> so I'd like to get a consensus for him to drop a agreement. >> You have a consensus.
>> I'm still hoping they'll come back. >> I am too, but we're two and a half months in. >> Oh, I agree. It just it it troubles me that there's just no give. It's it's it's there's words I want to use that I'm not going to use because I'm I'm not going to do that because but it it it
border lines on a lot of things and and it doesn't you know it makes no sense to me that somebody can't so you're I mean do they just look at a town like like they just look at a town and go oh yeah you're 1.5 you're I was talking to
somebody from another municipality just the other day >> yeah just the other day I was talking to somebody from another municipality and basically They're brought an increase every year, right? And they just let's for argument sake, let's call it three. And they come back and say one and a
half. And then the sheriff comes back and says, I'll make it two and a quarter. It's it's like this thing, right? And they get their little bump every year. But it's like, you know, with all the seizures, etc., etc. I just it this I do not understand why there's
not more of a conversation than somebody coming in and saying, "I'll give you $7,000 off your bill." >> Yeah. Um the um PBSO is not just punishing uh us with the red speed
because our uh population doesn't fill that building. A lot of the unincorporated area goes to Lockai Jing Grove's elementary school too. So therefore, you know, uh they're they're
punishing more than just us by their action. And also the crossing guards, I I don't see kids from Lachi Groves walking miles and miles to school.
They're coming from the unincorporated, densely populated areas right near that school. So DBSO is not playing fair. Thank you. >> 6 o'clock. >> What?
>> No, six o'clock. >> Okay, it is six o'clock. So, do we have a consensus to have him bring back a mutual termination at this point? >> Show of hands. >> Show of hands. >> Take a look at it. I That's what it's about. It's about him bringing a vote on it.
>> I saw two hands. >> Okay. Then we've got the garland up here. >> Lisa, you're not in favor of it. >> The status quo. The status quo for two and a half months. >> I want to hear what you're in favor of.
>> I'm abstaining. >> How would you like to see that end? >> How would you what what the recommend? I already said how I'd like to see it end. I'd like to see them come back and have a conversation. I think that >> the the way PBSO has treated different
communities that contracted services with them. I've said this from the beginning. Everybody pays a different price for a product. That product is an officer in a pickup truck or a guy in a car or somebody on a motorcycle. There should be a set price.
I mean, we're trying to do that within our own town with checklist. So, I I would just like to see an across the board even number if it's an MSTU. I think that I don't like to see Locket Groves as the poster child for this, but
you know, I the cross and sword that we fall on today. You know, they have a much bigger budget than we do. How far does this go? What precedence does it set? Every sheriff is an independent entity. It's a It's a constitutional position.
>> I wait. >> Yeah. >> The sheriff is a constitutional position. Yeah. >> United States of America. >> My concern is we've done nothing. It's been sitting status quo for two and a half months. So, we got to move something. That was that was my thought. Right. >> Agreed. >> We're not saying we're not again we're not we're just saying we think that they
it can come up with something different. But you have a consensus so with with the three. So, I mean that's fine. I mean, we'll see what what what comes of, you know, comes ahead. But >> again, >> all of these other items have to move through our January
>> meeting or workshop. >> January or January 6. >> No problem. >> Okay. You have the information and we're here to answer it. Okay. We got one and two done. You can just put these on the >> Oh, no. One of these was tenatively scheduled items for your January 6 meeting. Well, I guess
they'll >> it'll be like a Christmas presently scheduled. Okay, meeting is journ starts. We're gonna come down from the day. >> Do you need help? >> Thank you staff for your time
>> and congratulations. >> Is that like saying the adult award is like the stand? The account attorney has already said he's unwilling to speak to you and as am I >> because I've been misqued by your newspaper before and I don't choose to
misquote it. We're starting a workshop right now. Yes, I have a job. our official meeting for this seme. >> When would be the best time to get them? >> So, can I start?
I want to start. >> Thank you for reminding me. >> Do you need to open the workshop? >> I'm opening the workshop now. So, if you need to have conversations, if you could please have them out in the hallway. Thank you so much. Okay. Um, so the
first thing I'd like to do is apologize to everybody because I had promised after our meeting that I would try to do some priorities. Um, thank you so much, Paul, that I would try to meet with the consultant and others and do some priority listing, but as mo as you're
all aware, actually, my mother was hospitalized and subsequently put in rehab, and I've been a little pressed with that. But I did find some time yesterday and today to do a little bit of prioritizing. So, if we want to start with that, if you guys bring up your
master list, you have two lists. the master list that says um town council strategic items and status update. I'm just going to tell you what I came up with and then you guys can you know again by consensus we can say we have to
go back after this and uh >> I got a quick question can we can we go with the public first and then get into that after >> go with what the public are there any public comments? Does anybody have anything they want to bring up? Let's close that door because it
>> right. >> Thank Does anybody from the public have an item that they wanted to bring up? Tracy, you good? >> You do? Please go ahead. >> No, Sus. >> There's raised her hand. Go ahead. >> I don't know about that microphone. >> I turned it on. >> Okay.
>> Hello. >> Hello. >> Is this working? >> Yes. You have to talk really close. >> Yeah. Yeah. behind you and so that it goes on the live feed. >> Okay. >> I wanted to let everyone know that I
have decided to run for the House of Representatives, US House of Representatives from District 20. >> Congratulations. >> Congratulations. >> I'm trying to figure out how to work through all of this. Um, but as of yesterday, I am definitely on the list. It's on the
website for the Federal Elections Commission to run for the district. There's myself and one other Democrat and three Republicans that are already on the list. And I can't actually
um officially declare until between April 6th and April 26th of next year, but I need 4,033 signatures. >> Wow. >> Oh, you can't just say you want to do it >> to qualify. >> Wow.
>> Well, there's two options. You can either pay $11,000 or you can get $4,033 signatures. So, I just got my forms made today. So, I will be asking anyone who would at least sign so that I can get on the
ballot. I have them here and I need 4,000. >> So, so tech so technically Susan, we're not supposed to do political stuff in campaigning in town hall. It's just kind of part of our policies and procedures. So, can you just let people know for the
record where they can reach you if they wish to sign this or where you're going to have like signing events? Have you planned anything like that? So, not here in this building, please. Can you please let people know? >> I know. Well, that's why that's why I'm letting you know and just asking that if
you you know, is there some place where people can come to your I don't know. >> Come to my clinic. >> Okay. And the address is >> 3319 E road. >> Okay. So they can come to your clinic to sign and perhaps later you can talk about some signing events or something. You might want to contact the Laxa
Hatigos landowners association and let them know if you're having some signing events or something. >> Ask them about at the event Thursday night, but I haven't heard anything back. Um there's going to be a party Thursday night. >> There is. They're having a Christmas party Thursday night. I happen to know that. Yes.
>> So can I have a signing event there? Um, I don't know the rules on that. You will have to speak to U. >> It's at Boony's. >> It's at It's at Boon. Soon. >> Yeah. So, I'm pretty sure if you want to stand I'm pretty sure if you if you want to stand outside and get people to sign
your petitions, I'm pretty sure that would be okay. But >> I have to stand outside. >> Well, the event is outside. But we actually can't really talk about this because three of us that are sitting right here are on the board of the landowners association. So it's a conflict for us to speak about that with
you. So >> that's why I'm talking in the third person up here. So okay. >> Well, sorry. Maybe. Good luck is all I >> be bold. That's all I can say.
>> I believe in the law of attraction. If you believe you can do something, you can do it. There you go. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Awesome. Good luck to you. Thank you. A big undertaking. >> Anybody else? Joe, did you have anything you wanted to bring up? Katie, anything
you wanted to bring up? Nope. >> Yeah. >> Nope. >> We'll keep it handy. Well, if you do, just jump up and down or waggle your thumb or something. >> You're opening the door. Be careful. >> Okay. >> Tootsu, Joe. >> Okay.
>> Club. >> All right. So, >> it's just anything you want to talk about. I mean, we have it's it's it's open. That's what I've been calling it on my little signup sheet every >> Right.
>> So, do you have something pressing or you want us to go and then if something pops up, >> you go and I'll just chime in when I >> You'll be ready to pop. Okay. All right. Not enough. >> You got to keep her in control. Okay.
>> Can I do sound effects? >> Okay. >> All right. So, um All right. The item that's P1 is um the the management of the manure and the vegetative debris. That that's on this list as priority one that really
has escalated to I don't know if you've driven down a road, >> but there is a property on a road that has probably within 10 to probably at least 10 feet maybe more of manure covering all of the property. But
anyhow, so that one would stay on P1 for the P2. >> Can can hold Hold on. Can we go back to P1 because there's a property on B- Road South that's a back property that has been thumbming their nose at the town for years, right? >> Are they as aggressively going after
that property as well? >> Can they see it? I >> I sincedly turned in. >> Okay. If it's been But if it's been turned Let's devil's advocate. It's been turned in. They go to the gate. There's halluc down the driveway.
>> That's But that's what I'm saying. That's the question because that that's where some issues lie with these things like the trailer tractor trailer parking and stuff like that. >> Citrus that has a giant pile and has for six years that I'm aware of. >> I am >> my concern is I'm I'm super happy that
we're getting aggressive on that that particular but I want to see it across the board. >> I I agree with you a thousand%. >> Okay. Well, and and that's why it's creating a policy, seeing what we can do. I mean, I think we can bring in a a lot of other agencies, too, like, you
know, environmental that like that poop on a road certainly, I'm not aware of the one you're talking about, but that poop on a road is certainly within 25 ft of our waterway. Okay. And so, >> a specific property. >> No, it's not a specific property.
example. >> I was just using it as an example because I just drove by and saw it and was and and it's alarming. That's that's the only reason I was using that was an example, but and basically bottom line is I'm saying I think that one needs to stay is P1. The the P2 I don't even
really understand why P2 is on here because isn't that their job? I mean, I think that's their job. >> I think what's I think what's still going on is people >> Oh, sorry. It's a strengthening code enforcement operations. I think is people are still experiencing inconsistent code enforcement,
>> right? >> There there's misinformation about code enforcement. There's confusion about how to come into compliance on code enforcement. I think that's what this encompasses in in my experience. Does anybody else have a different experience? >> If I if I could real quick, I I'm sorry
to derail, but you you read this. So P1 I assume is priority, correct? So this is the top four priorities are all eh top three priorities >> are code enforcement related in my mind I think isn't there some other stuff down here that's code enforcement related what I was trying to
get out of the last workshop what I was trying to get out of the last workshop >> was going yeah code enforcement here this there and like in and these say this is priority one in this category this is priority one in this category because >> okay well let me let me get through the notes that I took today and then you
guys can we can do what we want to. I felt that P3 needs a definition and a list. Okay? You can't just say that like like Lisa's saying, it's not just one property. It needs a it needs a definition of what is a long-standing problem property and it needs and we
need a list of what these properties are so that they can then be addressed. >> Okachobee Boulevard. >> Okay, >> there's your list. >> Um, start there. >> Then we've got the checklist that we've been talking about for FEMA. >> I'm sorry. you I don't I don't have what
I don't think I have. >> Is that an extra Is that an extra agenda right there? >> D3 is resolution of long-standing problem. >> My agenda and it's in there. >> Yeah, Paul's Paul is not using his code. >> You can use my I need it back afterwards, but you're welcome to use it.
>> I opened it to the page for her. >> May we also confirm when you're doing u public comment on non-aggenda items here? When do we do public comment? >> Anytime. We just we started with it. >> We let Dr. Club >> We opened up with it. >> We opened up with it and and then we
went on to this when there nobody else had one. You must have stepped out of the room at that >> town clerk. May I make a comment real? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. She was kind enough to go over your uh basket food basket thing for
this week. Uh is this on? >> Yeah. >> Yes, ma'am. Okay. Um, I just want to remind you that I've previously spoken to you about uh my concern over the town's questionable tree mitigation policy and I have reviewed Palm Beach
County's ERN and it's very clear single residential properties 10 acres and under do not go through the same uh review in Palm Beach County as properties 10 acres and above. The
comment was made at the one of the town council meetings. Well, this is Palm Beach count what Palm Beach County does. And what I've noticed in this town is this town does not differentiate between developers and single family resident properties 10 acres and under. I think
that's the weakness of your uldc's and I'm going to be sending you a letter on specific points. Um, but I think you really need to review your tree mitigation and it is nowhere uh it is
worse than what Palm Beach County does. And I will still use the words that I think it's amounts to an exaction or extortion and your building code official should probably review it as well. Thank you, >> Virginia. So I I agree that our code
should not be written the way it is. But when you say that there should be a distinction from a developer to a land owner, how would you how would you determine that? >> Please review erm Palm Beach County. Thank you. Please review. It's it's simple. Developer
10 acres and above zero lot line. >> So it's so it's not developer, it's ten. It's ten. It's the acreage. You >> do the erm guidelines. And I think it may be some simple language that can be inserted into our uldc's. >> Can you send that to us if you have it ready? >> Oh, I will.
>> I will be sending all of you an email tomorrow. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, because you can develop less than an acre, >> right? >> There's there's development going on in Westgate right now that is less than an acre. They're making little row houses that are three sto I mean it it it's possible. >> Um
>> I'm just not sure how you differentiate a a >> Westgate is Palmy County unorporated. Yeah. >> Okay. which is yeah >> but M does handle large sorry M does handle large corporate stuff but you know and but there's still mitigation that has to be done with trees you got
to plant new trees when you built build a single family dwelling you got to >> all right um I'm just going to go through like I said read these things that I have and then we can talk about whether they're feasible or not we can go back through again um one of the things we had talked about previously was having council members who have a
particular interest in something take it on as like something that they're direct directing and working with staff to get done. Um, so Lisa, I have I had your name next to enhancement of town communication practices because I know that's something from how you're speaking on the day is that you're
extremely passionate with. I had that as something for you. Um, and I also had you on the next one which was clarification and application of vested rights because I also know that's something that you're extremely passionate about whether it does or doesn't exist. Again, you don't have to take it on. I'm just throwing these
things out as suggestions. Okay. Um, I had the next item, the Okachobee corridor protection, to move that to the top and add the word improvements to that. Not just protections, but improvements, but to move that to the top because this is um, one of the
boards that I sit on is the boy, I can't forget I can't remember the acronym right now, but one of the boards that I sit on has to do with the transportation and planning and everything. And and we're actively meeting. We've already met like three times. you you guys actually you two went to one of the meetings at Palm Beach State College
that the public was invited to and we're meeting again this Thursday. So this is this is happening right now so it really needs to go up to the top of the list. Um Todd, I had you on the next one. The water opportunities along Okachobee as perhaps a pet project for you. >> Anita, you're taking the Okachobee
Boulevard. >> No, I just said move it to the top and add improvements to add the words improvements to it. I didn't have a name with next to that one. We may put names next to other ones. I'm just I I tried to when I came across something that I knew was something an individual was
passionate about, I tried to give their name to it. Um Todd, I had you with the water opportunity since you were the one that brought that up. I also had the commercial corridor preservation, seeing as that we just got the grant for that planning, moving that to the top of the list because we have to decide
potentially at our next meeting how to how to uh apply that grant and stop the free-for-all that's happening right now in that area. Um the review of SB 180 and the home rule implications. >> You skipped
>> I I know I skipped that one because that in my opinion that should be happening anyhow. that's been on the capital plan. It should be happening anyhow, but it's it drops down. So, I skipped it for right now. Um, and we can bring you guys can all make it be more important. I'm
just telling you what I did. Um, but the review of SP80 and home rule implications absolutely has to be on the January 6th agenda because I'm going to Tallahassee on January 12th to discuss this. So, I need to know what our council's
>> position >> position is prior to going there. So, that has to go to the very the tippy top. Um, as far as I'm concerned, the FDA easements and the a permit coordination goes with P5. I don't understand why they're not all
together. Um, and then the trail I again I skipped the neighborhood drainage improvement because again, that's something that is already on the capital plan right now. Um, or that they're already working on right now. uh the trail system connectivity uh is actually
being currently implemented. So I don't think we need to mess with that too much. I think it's being worked on. The uh continuation of the legisation legislative and intergovernmental advocacy efforts also needs to go up to that tippy top with the SB 180 because
again that must be at the tippy top on January 6 because by January 12th we have to have a consensus of what the talking points are going to be. Um, the next one, solid waste, goes with P4 as far as I'm concerned.
Um, I'm not sure why it's not there. Uh, I I'm pretty sure the next one is what we're doing right now, so I'm not sure why it needs to have be an item on the list. Um, the 20th anniversary celebration I put I assigned to me. Um
the uh succession planning and workforce development I assigned to Mr. Coleman because he's very familiar with intergovernmental and has always a lot to say about those kinds of things and it's one of his passions. So I thought that that was a good thing for him. And I didn't assign
you anything March because I know that your >> health is an issue at this moment and that you're outgoing in March. But if you feel like there's something you really are feel passionate about, speak up. But I I just I just thought that right now it was probably a good idea
for us to not give you a specific assignment. So that's what I have for prioritization, guys. >> Okay, >> go for it. What does anybody have to say? >> So when So when each of us has been tasked with it, what what are you wanting us to do? Because like >> champion it.
>> Champion it. work with the staff to get it done and off the list because a lot of these things like vested rights is a can that has been getting kicked for >> 20 years, >> eternity, >> eternity. I mean, we wouldn't be in this
situation if that can had been opened and taken care of 20 years ago. So, we need some we need a person on each of these projects going to see it from start to finish that's going to meet with staff and going to report back to the rest of us council members because
these putting these things on a list which they've all been on a list now for a long time and not been getting done. >> So, so here's my example. So, one of the things is for reclaimed water, right? Mhm. >> So that's something we got to deal with Palm Beach County with
>> our charter says that the town mayor is supposed to be meeting with other government entities. >> I don't unless designated. So you just got designated. >> Okay, perfect. >> I mean that means you got volunte. Okay. If we all agree to this, I would
say this is a consent. We a we agreed the other night that designation was going to happen by consensus. So if we all agree to this then the designation has occurred by consensus as far as I'm concerned. I don't know whe to consult with the attorney to see whether we have
to have an official vote >> which we might have to do on on these priorities who the designates are at. >> No, we don't have an official vote. I mean >> she's saying she just wanted to make sure. Listen, you brought it up and actually I confused this with drainage period, you know, cuz that's been my thing for the past I don't know how long
since >> come up that since ripped out those weird locks has been on a pet peeve of mine. I don't know why. >> Quit saying that. >> I know. Every time I get a mic in front of me. >> Um >> we don't know how they came out. They're just damaged and county take care of it. >> Um but I think you know you listen you
you brought up the the the opportunity for reclaimed water, right? You brought that up, >> right? So, you know, evidently you've looked into it because you seem pretty versed in what you were talking about. So, I think by Anita saying, "Yeah, Todd, since you were you championed this and you brought this up, you know, maybe
so we can make sure that some of these things continue to move forward >> and they come off the list and then we can tackle some of the other what was it 167 items." But let's get >> until honestly until I said something the other day about maybe R gag needs to
go over the the map again and we can highlight the ones that we have we have acquired the easements meaning the easements that we've acquired and you you know we have on there the ones that we already have and where we already like all the way down to F whatever you know and then I was told oh they're
working on that right so you know who knew they needed it >> well I think you made a point that goes goes back to um a last couple meeting discussions on creating an the overarching target goal that everything
else is a pillar that supports and I think Rhett Gak would be a great committee to maybe task that and they probably have a lot of that information already you know that they can >> trail connectivity is that what you're talking about >> trail connectivity is one of those supportive pillars of protecting land
values right and and it's a draw for people to want to come to the community right So, uh, maybe REDGAT could could help us with, you know, some of those 167 things that does that support the overarching goal of protecting land
values which are currently mostly being driven by equestrian uses. Well, I think we all agree that that is the number one priority, right? Well, number two perhaps, protecting our rural community while protecting our land like they go hand in hand, right? that the way to
keep it rural and keep it how why we all bought here but protect >> they identified the five pillars that support that right and I think maybe it's understood right but maybe it needs >> a graphic right like here's the pillar
of code enforcement here's the pillar of land use and here's the pillar of trail system here's the pillar of and then every decision that goes under that is driven does it support that pillar if it doesn't support that pillar it doesn't get funded or it's on a low priority. Right?
>> So I I think that will help us keep our focus which the focus we know has sort of been squirrel right so keeping all of that aligned and focused and maybe red would be a good place for that. Well, because you >> and I know you were going to meet with
uh sorry, you were going to meet with Darcy. It didn't happen hospital, >> but but Darcy and I talk on the phone like every day and it it is going to happen incidentally. And I know Katie's in the room. Katie's on the committee. >> Got uldc.
>> A lot going on right now, right Katie? You've got guys have a lot of things that that are I mean I know you got we got the Gubber Trail open. We got the new thing over at High Park, that new trail open, and you're working on the connectivity plans and the signage. Is that correct? >> We are. It, you know, it's
>> it's the mic. >> As it seems because theivity, >> can you to get the microphone so we get you recorded? Sorry. >> Talk really close. >> Yeah, I know. >> Um, you know, we'll do whatever we can do to help, you know, and it is a big
draw. We want to keep locks like this and you need the connectivity. It just has to be like that. And you know, I I hope that we can do it. I don't you tell us what you want done and we'll make sure it gets done as good as we can. We don't have a meeting this month though because there was not enough agenda
items. So maybe we could make it. >> We got a list every month. >> We'll give you agenda items. >> But Paul, you were going to say, do you agree that Red is the committee for that or >> I think that it's a good school for that. Okay. especially Katie said they you know
>> they need things >> they need things um you know >> sorry and you know and and um I think that is a good spot and you know let's just all forget the whole one of the main reasons we were able to become incorporated in the first place was our unique role character right that was
like a a lynch pin item for us to be able to do that with the state we had to prove how different we were how unique we were from the rest >> to get around some of that >> to get around yeah requirements also want to be clear about this the things that we're each having. I don't want it
to be like we're working in a vacuum. And this speaks to Lisa's wanting us to have oneway communication. I think it's super important that we send out to all other council members since we're, you know, when something happens, you know, I
mean, it doesn't have to be every time you talk to somebody or whatever, but when there's something significant that comes up >> or something even that, you know, we are going to be talking about, but we might need time to think about or digest, you know, a decision is going to have to be
made on whether to choose Y or Z at the January 8th meeting. Okay. Some something along those lines. Not and I think you should choose Y, but just a decision is going to have to be made on whether to choose Y and Z or Z at this meeting. Something along those lines. I
think that's that's super important, too. That element of it. >> Well, I'm I'm surprised the SB 180 um is being moved up. It was my understanding when Mr. book spoke at the last meeting that um it was kind of a
let the lawsuit proceed that there's legislative actions that are taking place and I think we're all pretty clear on where we stand with I that we're with a lot of people or a lot of communities with SB180. Um, I keep hearing particularly from one member of the
community that we're not clear and on No, I'm not planning on I'm with Lisa. I'm planning on following the advice of the lobbyist that we hired and letting somebody else fight the battle. However, I will tell you that I've had
like side conversations like the one that I had at Big Dog Ranch last year with with Mr. Cruso, you know, and those are sometimes opportunities to have a little bit more candid conversations or things or sometimes you are asked as he
asked me during that conversation last year about some specific bills and things. And so that's an opportunity to kind of give your opinion on that or and I want it to be our opinion on that. So I just want to be clear and transparent for the record. That's why I'm asking
that it be moved up what our position is on all these things before I go up and speak those positions because I want them to be our positions and not my position. I want them to I want to and I want to make that clear to the public that I am not going to Tallahassee and
giving my opinion or my positions. I am transmitting the positions and opinions of the entire board. >> My feeling on SB80 is it's overreach by Tallahassee. Well, I think that's everybody's >> I think that it it makes sense when it was a specific existing parcel that had
a use where you see some of these coastal communities and stuff trying to prevent those those businesses from coming back >> and making it so cost prohibitive for them to do that. >> I it cripples it cripples communities like ours. >> It's a broad brush for the state.
>> I have no problem with that. The state saying no, you can't now change what these people had. But the beyond, oh now you can't create, you know, language for this and language for that and right and maybe it's everything that you do legislatively, it cripples us. Yes. Go
ahead. I'm sorry. >> I would just like to say >> I don't know if we go quiet. >> I would like to say turn >> the green side is a button the side. >> That's it. >> Okay. I would just like to say as a a uh
the chair of the uldc that SB 180 clearly has crippled us, but not but I think that we could still be making moves for the future given that
we could be meeting and Paul like the way that says you can't That's not true. We could have everything in the pipeline. >> We can't have something sitting on the shelf.
>> We cannot vote on. That's what I'm Wait, can I finish >> so that we could sit together and put things out that we think are good for the town in going forward? Have them sit on a shelf until 2027 when it
>> You You're repeating what Paul brought up at the last meeting. Exactly. Well, I've been I've been saying this since the beginning since since the the onslaught of SP 180. >> You I >> you and I talked Saturday for the first time in like 6 months. >> No, no, no. Three months. No, but I have
I have spoken as the chairperson >> with staff and they're like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing." And there's no been there's not been a meeting. I've said it at the podium. Let us go. We want to meet. We have momentum, right? We I mean
>> it's actually on the agenda, but we didn't get to it. >> Okay. >> So, this is just we're trying. >> If I may. >> Yes. >> If I may. I'm not trying to shut you up. I'm just trying to >> You may, but I'm not done yet. >> Okay. Hey,
>> I'm just saying that this has been said and you're saying something that I've said why it hasn't reached staff and continued and been implemented. This is what my concern is.
>> No, please. Thank you. >> Um, do you want the long answer or do you want the a bridge version? >> A bridge. >> Do I get a choice? >> Well, >> okay. So, so yeah, right. Go ahead. Go ahead. Um, yeah. Right.
>> Yeah. So, so this was brought up, listen, I I've been bringing this up for a while. I brought it up because I've been bringing up because when I was on RECAD committee, the committees got shut down, etc. And it was always a big issue with me, right? And that this has been the
direction we we are we have been trying since I don't know. I I called for this workshop back in April or May. >> We did, >> right? Or we did. Yeah. We said that we need to let's add a Mar was it March second meeting? >> So, yeah. So,
>> you know, in order and for the purpose of Right. It took Todd. >> Yeah. >> And then I got a little upset because I was like, "Wait a minute. Wasn't Todd's idea. He said this. We we voted on this back in March." But anyway, >> so the idea of the workshop was so we can kind of hammer out some of these
things. And one of them was the60. You hear her say the 160 item list. The 160 item list because they literally had a list of 160 things. >> SB 180 Paul. >> I'm getting there. >> Okay. A bridged. >> No, she I know. But she hit she hit like two three points. So we are coming with
direction for ULDC. We're coming with direction for we're trying to get a joint fact meeting together to so to answer it's coming. All right. So, you know, I know you can't talk to your fellow committee members because it's sun sunshine, but if I can put it out there, all committee members be ready to
meet because it's coming, right? We want to make sure that we have quorums so we can't have meetings cuz I know some of them were missed because of quorum issues. Now, SB180 thing, I have been saying for months that why can't we have
said yes, we like the rule vista guidelines. We want to codify it when we have the chance. So every and go yes, we approve of it. You know why why we can't say um why we couldn't vote and say we approve it to take effect when SB1
>> No, no, no, no, no. Because the language says adopt, >> right? I >> we can't adopt it. >> I was getting there. >> Oh, sorry. >> Was getting there. >> I said, why can't we do this? And I was told no, you can't do that because it says you cannot adopt, right? So it's not like we can we can adopt something saying it's going to be effective here.
We can't do that. So, we can do things that are put on the shelf and it's coming and and yes. Yeah. All the rule Vista stuff that we worked on before the election, right? All that stuff with the new buffers and stuff like that, it's not going away. It's it's it's it's in
um >> it's on the show >> stasis. It's in the >> It's in the queue >> in the Q. >> So, >> u >> I think that was where I was going. >> Right. Until there's a state of emergency within 100 miles of here. We got to, you know, that's there's another
thing we need to look at the state of emergency that was called in that was that was called a few months ago or whatever in that wherever it was. >> We need to look at proximity because I think and how it pertains because I think it's not a state of emergency anywhere in the state of Florida.
>> I think it's within proximity. So I don't think we're I think our deadline is still 27. I don't think it's been extended. >> No, absolutely. So, Palm Beach County. Yeah. We >> This landing on edge of roads. >> It's the county. Yeah. It's not the
municipality, it's the county, which makes no sense, but hey, what are you what are you going to do? So, if it's 100 miles from the, you know, we know where that barrier is and where was it? If it was in the panhandle, >> right, >> right, near Panama City, we're good. >> Yeah.
>> Right. We We still get our original deadline. If it was closer, if it was in, you know, More Haven, we're out of gas, right? I mean, so I think that's something that needs to be clarified so we know that we have that information because it's good information to know
>> something in there before. >> That's what's coming. That's what's coming. >> That's what's coming. Okay. So, everybody's okay with me pass is everybody okay with their assignments and everybody okay with me passing these things on? Lisa, are you okay with having two or would you rather do them
one at a time or are you okay with championing two? >> No, that's fine. >> You're okay with that? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I feel like the Asana one might happen pretty quickly since that implementation's kind of already on the agenda. So, I feel like it might happen. I think I think it's already in the works is what I'm saying. So, I think that one might
>> go quickly. And Paul, I know that's kind of one of your passions, yours, >> right? And I I think >> as soon as that's done, you can grab some, you know, champion something else, pick something else off the list. I I think it's in the works as well, but um I'll definitely get more of a cohesive
kind of what's going on and be able, you know, >> well, and I I also think it's really important. I I think that the secession plan is is is is really critical because we've s we've renegotiated a contract with our town manager for one year. And one of
the problems that we always have is, and this comes up with all our major contracts, we talked about this at our last thing, is that we wait till the last minute and we then we throw out these like trit things like, oh, we'll just have somebody step in or whatever. And that's not okay. So, it it is now
the time for you as part of this, in my opinion, to start having a conversation with our town manager about is she going to want to continue after that one-year contract and explore other options and what would happen and what would the secession be? So, this is like this is
like the real deal. I mean, this is like hard work, you know. Um, and and and facing some of the uh I mean, the ones Lisa's facing are kind of like longstanding issues that nobody's wanted to deal with, so that makes them really
hard work. >> I love running my head into a wall. >> Favorite loves throwing things. And I mean, and yours is like like really serious stuff that just has to get taken care of. Can I make a suggestion to that? >> Sure.
>> I think the council should >> uh not to step on your your project there, Paul. Uh I think the project the the council as a whole should take a little time in these workshops I think would be a great place to do this defining what we want in a manager as
far as you know the the do do they have the same rural understanding? I you know I think one of the things you and I have talked about in the past and Todd you and I have talked about it the boilerplate documentation that comes our way. We've
had ordinances that have actually shown up on the deis with the previous town's name still in them. >> Yeah. >> And it's like why are we getting we're not a boilerplate town >> and we we never set out I obviously government requires certain check marks to happen. you have to have certain
departments and things like that. But I think that the ULDC we've all agreed um is not creating the results that we had set out to achieve. uh and I think that does come from the top down and I don't mean council council is an important role in
that but tasking a manager with that and and that vision being implemented kind of like I want a painting of a horse and you turn an artist loose and you get some Picasso thing with its ears like this and you're like that's really not what I
envisioned. Right. >> Right. I want an ellipazar. >> Right. Picasso. >> It's a Picasso horse but I to look like ellipse. Right. So I think that I think council should spend a little time defining what it is we want to see in a manager. So whether it's a this manager
coming back or we have to go out and find a manager, we're not just getting random applicants like >> Right. Right. We might that's exactly what I'm saying. I mean we may we may in the at the end of the day beg this manager to stay on after after another year. We we might you know we may
revisit somebody you know just keep that kind of in the background. We we have >> I would say send me send me your suggestions but >> never mind >> bring them to the next meeting >> the workshop >> you can but you can start doing the groundwork and then bring it to a
council meeting or or status report >> right you can do the one way sharing information and status >> and something something to keep in mind I've been thinking about is Westlake is in the process of hiring a town manager and they're going to have several that are presented to them so I'm kind of curious as to what they're >> yeah you might want to get the list of
what those people who they are and what example of what we don't want though. >> Well, and that's and that's okay. But sometimes you got to know what you don't want to know what you do. >> But if they have five and they select one of the other four what they don't want and that might be what we want. >> Right. Right.
>> Because oh that that guy's from Okachobee or something, right? He's rural and we don't want that here. Well, >> that's right. That's my point is they're going to get who they want isn't who we want. So the the other four on the list might be somebody we want. And and to that point, I think we have to decide
like how important like um I call it hysterical legacy, but historical legacy like you know historical information is like when we were just out at the league lunch and Lumx has been there for 60 years. I mean you know like that's
pretty incredible. Um so maybe maybe that is the problem to a point that Todd made before and this is something for you to explore Paul. Maybe that is part of the problem is that we've we've made too many changes and too many shifts in that position um before anybody can
actually be successful or get any any footing or any momentum. I mean, I don't know. But that's why it's a great idea for one of us to be in charge of it, especially somebody with as much civic and and municipal background as you can. It's no different than no different than if you're running a store and you every
time you shift into a new manager >> even though it's a corporate thing and you're going to have a fluctuation in how that store works and runs because that guy is >> leading it his way. Right. >> Right. So, >> but also just historical knowledge I think is hugely important. Phyllis had
something to say. Are you on? >> What are we This is my first time coming to this. So, what are we per uh permitted to speak on? >> Anything. >> Open mic night. >> All right. Because I just want to bring
up a couple of things that have been my pet peeves for quite a while. >> Go right ahead. >> And one is um calling town hall. Um I really think that somebody needs to be on the phone. Um, every time we hire
somebody to answer the phone, >> communication practices. >> I believe that's in Lisa's communication practices. >> Well, I'm just saying every time we hire someone to answer the phone, they get commandeered elsewhere. So, you know,
and I I don't care about that as long as somebody else is now answering the phone. >> Nobody's answering when you call the general line and hit operator. Nobody's answering when I hit operator permits,
you know, the button press. >> I'm just asking. >> So, I get in my car. >> I'm asking >> and I come here. >> So, >> right. And then there's somebody sitting at the desk >> sometimes. >> Well, like I said, I'm not picking on
staff. I'm just saying that they could come in here to do something else cuz just answering the phone. >> Well, and then sometimes there's a restroom and lunch and whatever, right? >> You know, we have 30 employees, Paul. Okay. I'm pretty sure somebody can get past the phone if somebody goes to the
bathroom. >> My point is what I was trying to get at >> my point is that couple statements. >> Okay. >> Because you guys want to know. >> Yeah. It's an open mic for everyone, Phyllis. It's a workshop. It's an open discussion. >> What else you had Did you want to talk about
>> the second thing is code enforcement has always been an issue. I'm very sad to see that two and Taylor was on your list of vendors along with um the other one that we just that the Beach Boys >> cap.
>> Okay. Cap, please. I realize that was in a piggyback situation. Please. >> I think they were fighting for building services though. Yeah. >> We've already been down the road with those two companies. Okay. And it was very bad results. So, I'm hoping that
although you piggybacked, you're not going to use those. Okay. That was code enforcement. Also, we've hired a weekend guy. And I see we have a fruit and vegetable farm that is making, you know, those people are part of our town.
They've been part of our town for a long time. I I don't appreciate seeing people parked on these different corners trying to take business away from somebody that's been in our town a long time and selling fruits and vegetables that are not from here.
>> Are you talking about like the watermelon truck? >> I'm talking about B- Road and C- Road. And not only that, >> Okachchobee. I mean, and they're proliferating. I I've seen new ones popping up and I'm just >> Exactly. And it takes business from our people that have been here. And also
it's a traffic issue. >> It clearly I agree. >> So three, the other thing that is costing this town um we have residents in this town and mostly new residents and our problem is going to be people
don't want to build here. All right. First of all, our FDA is horrifying. Okay. I've been trying to bring it up and bring it up. We've tried streamlining it. We I don't not Lisa. I think we tried doing it while you were
sitting on the day. >> I had a three-hour meeting when I was a resident with staff trying to bring in the FEMA a >> allowances and and guidelines that FEMA has laid out >> and we did it again off and and yes,
it's something I have brought up since I got back on. >> It's on the list. >> It's on the list. I just want to tell you we're losing great good people from coming to this town because they come in and they're not getting the information they need and the FDA is horrifying.
>> So that's part of the supporting land values, right? If people are being turned off about coming here and and building a nice horse farm, um an agricultural entity that does a house like a farm to table. Yeah. All of that.
Yes. keep doing it illegally and and then flooding their neighbors out. >> I the previous manager and I had a conversation >> and I said, "You are going to drive this behavior underground." He said, "I'm fixing the problem." I said, "You are not going to fix this problem. You are
only going to incentivize the non-compliant individual to come to our town. >> Make compliance easy and cheaper and non-compliance expensive and hard." I think >> period >> 100%.
>> Actually, on that note, right before I came here, same complaint every time I drove down the street, >> all the apartments were full. All the lot cars were parked out. They had their Christmas lights up. That's three units on top of a barn on Hyde Park. >> The three units on top of the barn that
he built illegal. Five years ago, the town watched him build it. And he just lies through his teeth to the town, does whatever he wants. He tries to make deals. He will Well, also we have a neighbor also, exactly what you're talking about, bought the old place, Philips's place,
Philip's place. She's trying to build a house. She said this town is making it impossible for her to build. They tore down the old wooden house, which I told her I agree with because that house was trash. >> Yes. >> She has a great cement pad there. I said, "Well, that'd be great. Fill in the holes and maybe put a canopy on it." She said, "They want me to tear it out."
I'm like, "What?" They say it's going to settle or it's been there since the 70s. >> It's settled. Exactly. She said they wanted her to tear it. I said, "That's a perfect pad. Put a canopy of park your vehicles in your house behind it." She said, "I know. This town is making drive." She wants to leave. And what she's saying
she's a great resident. She's >> clean that property up. >> She's improved that property. She gave the for the horse trail. She gave that over trying to make nice with the town. And >> the town is like her water drainage now has to go in the ponds to go into right next to her because it's so screwed up.
exactly what she's saying. On top of how many apartments down the street where the guy just lies through his teeth to the town, he moved all the furniture out, how the town look, and then he moved everything back in. >> Poor behavior. It's exactly. >> So, I mean, but the thing is like kicking the can down the road. You're talking about that. Well, they've been kicking us down the road. They should
have confiscated his property years ago. He has over a million dollars in fine from what I've heard. >> Really close. >> And and he just keeps lying. He's going to lie to you guys. He's going to snake you guys. >> It's 45 days from from being done. Well, I hope so. But >> I think this illustrates
>> I think this illustrates the the I think I think it illustrates the same problem with the committees being proactive. We we are not successfully getting what council has directed to actually
manifest at the staff level. How do we do this? >> Do we do this by and I know you guys think I want to punish people. I want to hold people accountable. Accountability requires a a if you don't produce a
result, there has to be a consequence to that. If you don't have consequences, why why bother? Why why comply? >> I think we we've mentioned we've mentioned Hold on. I I've let like five people go. I think we Well, I I
>> need water. So I I think we discussed that when we were discussing the the the software that wasn't being utilized, right? The ma the task management software. So I think that's beginning. So I think hopefully that's going to give a little more metricbased performance, right? Um as far as call
town, I know they I I know that they have a young man that's here. I think he's parttime or whatever. He's >> Mark. >> Mark. Thank you. >> Nice guy. >> Yeah. he has been assisting Angela who is also a permit tech who is also answering the the phone and working the front counter. So hopefully you're going
to start to see a little more coverage there. And if you're not, please let us know because that's that's always we've been mentioning that. Um to Taylor and CAP, those are those are are on a list of almost like emergency
contacts if we need something, right? It was or if we need an alternate for something. That's what that that list that we approved was for um roadside vendors. Um I mentioned it to somebody this weekend and they were supposed to go back. I I got to follow up that but Sam was out working this weekend and
they were supposed to go by because Mary McNicholas almost got hit on the side of the road this weekend right on the corner cuz somebody with >> I mean I I they were New York plates. I'm just going to say it. Just like whipped right off on the corner and like almost took her out because to to buy
watermelons, whatever. And then if you look in the in the woods behind there, there's like eight eight watermelons out there that are all hollowed out and just laying there and whatever and it's all trash. Um the FDA should be changing. We got rid of Ingenuity and we got new
firm. So that >> and we got we have the in-house guy now too. >> Yeah, that yeah that process should be changing. You should start to see some some change there, >> right? So yes, maybe the next step is to look at what the requirements are um and how
how adversely different they were to uh what's required by for you know NFIP through FEMA because that's the regulation they use. You know maybe that's the case. So um I mean elevation elevations of structures habitable space there's no there's no you know you got
to be 18 above crown or you got to be in our case around here you got to be a foot above freeboard >> in add so you know that's the thing and then >> if you go back >> sorry about high park man it just it takes time you know
>> go back >> okay do with the FDA's who are there people then who have disregarded them that would still be in trouble or then they're going to get funneled into oh well like I mean that's just think me
thinking ahead but going forward with with what we were talking about what we were talking about oh my god so many things um >> that's why I was trying to hit them as we went but >> getting I think that there are cases of
people that have built without FDA or built in in uh not in compliance with the FDA or the FDA is outdated. >> Um, and I do think the town has gone after some of them, but it's it's a non-compliant property whether it's non-compliant because it doesn't have a
BTR, didn't FDA, it didn't get a permit for X. Well, and let's face it, there are people out there that will go and do exactly what they're supposed to do by the plan, and once they get a CO and once they occupy the place for six months, I don't like this. I'm just going to rip it out or I'm going to fill
in that dry retention area. It happens. I mean, it, you know, it it does. People will spend the money and they'll do whatever and we act like it's a it's a it's a localized thing just for here. it hits here a little more because we're dealing with larger format properties. So, the expense is a lot more, right?
But FDA's or or or uh drainage plans or flood plan regulation is something everywhere. So, you know, that's why I say, you know, maybe we need to look at what the regulation is based on other information and kind of compare it. Maybe the
previous, you know, management, you know, had some kind of or maybe it was Larry. Maybe they >> used to say that you had to put what we used to say for drainage was that you had to funnel channel the water off of your property and now we're saying that
you have to within your property. So based on the fact that we used to say the other we have to assume that at least some percentage of properties in the town are in violation but we're following the rules at the time when they did it but in violation.
>> But you don't have to keep the water on your property there. There is a misunderstanding. You can keep it to a certain level. It has to you have to have a place to stockpile that water to a certain level and then you can drain into the canal, >> right? No. Absolutely. >> Why people are being told you can't
drain into the canal is beyond me and this canal. That's what you're paying $100 for. >> And I don't mean to keep saying this, but we got rid of those folks. >> We got rid of those folks >> and those folks that you would bring back your corrections that they gave you >> and then they would have five more
corrections. Yes. >> No. And then they would charge you more money and they have to buy more corrections. It wasn't. And listen, >> I know it sounds like I'm defending people here all the time, but it wasn't here. It was the contractor. And we have gotten rid of that contractor. And I I can tell you cuz as you all know, I'm in the construction industry. I hear it on
a daily because they know where I live. They know. And it's like, dude, I don't work over there. >> Perhaps >> I got a list of of concrete guys that the poor slabs that will not work here for that reason. Perhaps we need to go back and look at the ordinance for our FDA as well because I believe that's a
2017 document. >> So that should probably all these properties historically drained into the canal historically. There's plenty of culbert pipes across uh Le Road. >> So do I, >> you know, but my my point is is there's
this all was a grove and it was all designed to to maintain a certain amount of water and do whatever. So there is plenty of flow, plenty of culverts that that exist that were never a part of any FDA that were never a part of any permitted cult. >> Welcome to government,
>> but it was the wild west back then, right? So now you're dealing with things and it's like I can't come to you and say, "Hey, listen, the code changed this year. You got to bring your house up to date." That's just not the way it works. So >> yeah, >> my concern more is with people with people
>> it goes to sleep. I my concern more is with people flooding out their neighbors when they don't have to. >> And that is a building. You're not allowed to flood your neighbor. >> That's really more my concern. Like if you flood yourself, >> you know, that's fine. Wait, I just wanted one more going back to helping
people get um uh who who was it? >> Robert Austin. >> No, the lady. >> Yeah. The other lady. >> No. helping people, right? So, how does that come from
you directly to council? Like there, right? It's pinpointing. There has to be >> I I would like to know, Mr. Austin, was this person told by the building inspector that they can't do this or who
who is who within >> this we're go. This is where I'm going. They come here two years ago from Colorado fixing up that property. She's banging her head against the wall with the NPA with permits because she said the engineers are just gathering it for thousands. >> That's Yeah.
>> And they're gone. So she's trying to build a house now and they're trying to tell her tear out this whole pad which would be great for she's just banging her head against the wall and coming in here trying to build and they're a nice family. They fix that property up so nice. >> You know you spoke to Jack.
We recently got rid of that firm that she was having issues. >> I would I would tell her to reach out to Jack the building official and have a conversation with him. >> Paul, I I think to to clarifying, you know, how do we get control at staff
level and this goes to my assignment for communication practices. If you have a question about your property, call the building department. >> No, absolutely. >> Don't call town hall. Don't call the community standards director. Don't call the attorney. >> Unfortunately,
>> call the building inspector. >> Up until what, a year or two years ago, right? We were using contract help, >> but we're talking about right now. >> I I I know. I'm just saying. So, this poor lady has been dealing with this. And that's why I said I think the best course of action right now, you know, I
would say have her call me, but it's not going to do any good because I'm going to tell her to call Jack, right? That's what I'm tell her. I'm gonna say, "Listen, hi ma'am. This is Jack. >> You know, he's our building official. He's very knowledgeable. He's very helpful. you know, have a conversation with him, you know, and so I would just cut me out of the mix and just tell her
to call Jack unless she really wants to talk to to me, a council person, whatever, she can call me. But yeah, have her talk to Jack because I think regardless of the the what's happened in the past, I think he can help her find a way forward. I really do. >> Sorry, I didn't mean to.
>> No, no. I'm just I'm trying to come up with solutions. >> Yeah. >> Yes. will will right. And we do realize the level of right and we do realize the level of frustration. And we this body from the bottom of our heart want to
encourage good behavior and and people who want to follow the rules. We do we want to make we want to reward those people, not the people who are breaking the rules. Unfortunately, it takes so long to get to the people that are breaking the rules as you as you're aware when you follow the law, which
unfortunately we have to do to the letter of the law that when when you follow those rules, it takes a long time. But it is my understanding that yours is not the only one that's very egregious that we are extremely close. But we had to we had to cross a couple more te's and dot a couple of more eyes.
So, >> all right. Phyllis didn't finish because >> so the one other thing I I wanted to bring up since you're making a list is also I I want you guys to remember that we had a
a attorney's office that did not take direction from the entire council for a while. They took direction from one or two council members and there were resolutions and all this kind of things.
um brought before us that I would also take a double look at maybe some of those things that were passed through with the previous attorney. >> I think you'll find >> you were mentioning that earlier. Yeah, I I think you'll find with us that that
I think we the one thing that we all have in common that the common thread is is that we are here to move forward and we you know we are all of different minds and we have different opinions on what you know thing. Oh, and one more thing. We can all c Andy really work. By the
way, >> just so you know >> on our float from this on our float this Sunday >> that Craig and the guys from public works lovingly made and decorated with reads from the canal banks. So, we got some weeding done at the same time
>> and we all wore our outfits that we talked about last month and we were world class candy and turtle throwers all the way down Oak down >> Forestell Boulevard and >> Squeaky Turtles. It was cool. >> Dot and Paul only hit a couple of old
people with lollipops. But the best but the best was when we were supposed to be all like in order at the judging stand. We were a very w rockous group that decided we were going to throw out the rest of our candy where upon Lisa hit one of the judges in the collarbone with
the candy. And guess what? We were notified today that we won first prize. We spent less than $500 on our flu, just so you know. >> Yeah, it was it was a good time. We had we had a good time.
>> A great time. Yeah. >> One of the one of the one of one of the few birds. >> Yeah. one of the two perks we get as as council folks. >> True. >> I saw no prompts on Facebook. I'm just saying. >> So, I would like to remind council
member Coleman that I also cared about this town for seven years and always wanted it to move forward. So, I think that's what the all the council has always wanted. >> Listen, I I didn't say I didn't say you didn't. I didn't say you didn't and I didn't get to finish what I was saying
because Anita was rightly propping us up for our awesome our awesome uh parade production. >> My throwing arm. >> Yeah, Lisa's throwing arm. What what I was trying to get as I I I think you know we have Well, I I feel I do. So, I'm going to So, um you know, I I feel
that you know Yeah. Listen, there I think in their own way, however, whatever the previous council members, I don't think we've ever had somebody that didn't care about the town, right? we can we can, you know, make comments about their votes and whatever and what we our opinions, right? But I think I
think, you know, we're we're we're striving to, again, we're not going to agree on everything, right? I think we're we're striving to get to a a better place and have a more cohesive direction for everything because I think a lot what we've seen over the years is
a lot of like putting out fires. I mean, I think a lot of a lot of the councils have been, you know, firemen over the time, you know, meaning that it's always there's always a fire popping up and you can't focus. I think we're trying to focus that. Yeah. Yeah. >> And I think to her to Phyllis's point,
the the frustration of certain things being generated um by one council member and probably some of us are guilty of it more than others. Um, you know, I was we were asked at the last workshop by Miss
Harding to clarify the RV stuff and I drove back into it and again came up with even more different answers. And I I spoke with her earlier today and she goes, "Well, they want to come back and do an inspection." And I'm like, "Well, I'm reading here. It says an
inspection thereafter every 5 years after the Why are they going for another inspection in her place?" She didn't add a spot. She she complied fully in the beginning. Very weird. So um >> to my house too >> after your initial inspection within a year
>> last year. Yeah. >> Was that the initial inspection? >> Last year was >> okay. Well the town according to Miss Harding was they were coming back annually and it's like but it says right here five years. I could not find this on the town website. I will be
addressing this as my communications champion. And then here is a recreational vehicle occupancy disability accommodation request form. I could find no evidence of this ever being approved by council. >> Yes,
>> it was discussed. It was never approved to my knowledge. >> I think it's on the bottom of that ordinance. >> It did. >> It's on the bottom of the >> Yeah, like added to Okay. >> So I I needed clarification with that. So, and this this goes to compliance.
And I know the town has been very proactive, but again, this stuff should be one single page. I have blank RV spots. Fill in the blank. I have a a you know, a
permitted septic that I use for drop. Check. Or I use a pumpout. Check. 50 bucks. Get it done. you will start to see who is willing to comply and who is not willing to comply. People need to be trained to comply. >> I agree with you 100. Absolutely.
>> And I think I think what comes out at the staff level that seems like the feather touch in other towns it might be, but for us in our little love it and leave it alone, it's a sledgehammer approach. And then people are like, "Oh my god, I I can't read this. It's too
hard." Right? So they they just give up and then nobody shows up to enforce it or suddenly they get tagged with something. It cost us money to do that. >> I think we have to simplify the process, make it super easy and then you know there's a threshold of compliance,
right? At some point it will get cost prohibitive to comply and then people won't comply as we just learned by Mr. Austin's example. But I think that you you find a situation where what's the threshold of getting people to understand there's a process. It's
simple. It's inexpensive. Oh, look, we suddenly have 80% compliance. So, next year we make it a little harder. We add a little more money to it. Oh, now we're down to 60% compliance. So, what's the threshold of getting compliance? So, you know, you get people to participate and
they buy into the process. Well, I I think in this instance, if she's if she called like Karen and said, "Why did your guy want to come and inspect me when it clearly says once in five years and they inspected me last year?" >> It should be a done deal. >> Well, yeah, that should be done.
>> And if it's not, if they're still insisting on coming and and and inspecting, >> then there's a problem. >> Yeah. Right. And she call she calls you and goes, "Listen, you're my council person. I voted for you and this is what the hell's happening." So at that point you call up a Francine and go
>> nobody voted for me. >> Oh that's right. Nobody voted for >> I agree but you know this happened. So I mean the problem was saying hey listen this was brought to my attention and what I see is your the policy clearly states once in five years >> information. >> Yeah. Could you could you please you
know address this? Yeah. I'm not telling you to call Karen. I'm not telling you to call Sam. nodding for you to to give us the tell us the result once we finally get to some conclusion on >> I will I will take further I spoke to her she wasn't able to come tonight so I will reach out again >> because I know I had mine inspected last
year at the initial >> and they haven't come back around >> and nobody has contacted me about coming back so I'm trying to to figure out whether they're making analy well whether whether here's the thing this is what I'm figuring a a mistake was made.
It happens. People make mistakes. >> B, there's some kind of distinction that we're not seeing and the public's not seeing between my RV, which is my personal RV that I use as a third bedroom that I have a friend that stays in from time to time or whatever. Okay, that's my RV.
>> And then Jane's RVs, it's my understanding and I wouldn't purport to know it's all rented out. So whether there's some distinction hidden real material immaterial that's that's the that's the that's the issue that again
is not being communicated if it should be being communicated. >> I will I will follow up and get specifics and then I'll reach out to Karen and and understand you know if there it was an anomaly or there is a there is some sort of secret. >> Yeah. I mean it could it could have been
a permit for one and this year it's for two right and that would require another inspection. So, I mean, it could be something as simple as that. >> I will I will find out, but I I would like to see it simplified and >> and I'd like to know >> make compliance make compliance easy. >> Yeah, you agree with you.
>> So, um I did a little research also because we have a a lot of RVs throughout the town now and um I noticed that we have approximately 15 sex offenders throughout the town. and the
previous council, although I wanted to have background checks, you know, made a part of the RV program, that was not implemented. So, I want to I'm hoping that you guys are going to implement some sort of background check or at
least state, you know, who's living in your RV because um sex offenders have to register, but if they don't register, that's the problem. I think >> they're sex offenders. I think
>> microphone background. >> No, everybody does background checks. If you're a if you want to rent an apartment, they have to do a background check on you. >> They're not tenants. I'm talking about tenants in our town. It's to protect the
families that do live here and pay a lot of money and are raising children. So, you guys don't have minor children. I mean, there's a lot of new people coming to this town that can afford to live here on the 5, 10, 15 acres that have
minor children. And this is where they want to raise their kids. And I think it's very irresponsible. every other town I know of, you know, has to do some sort of tenant application. >> Well, you could you could have the same argument for like an Airbnb. I know that
uh re >> they have a tenant >> you can't do a background check on somebody that's here for three days. >> I think they >> No, they don't. I used to do an Airbnb up in Connecticut that nobody checks anything. And hold on. There was Hold
on. There was an Airbnb in Reic, Florida in the last month where a woman came from England and the man murdered her in the Airbnb. >> So, we couldn't possibly control or oversee any of that. >> We stated before. Nobody's asked for my background check.
>> No, of course not. >> Well, we're talking about Airbnb. We're talking >> We're still talking about a short-term rental. >> Seasonal rental. >> We're still talking about a short-term rental. I I hear what you're saying. I I don't know from an ACLU standpoint. >> If we can designate our trails as a
linear park, >> that's that's the idea that I had. If we can designate our trails as linear parks, then the law says they can't live within a mile of a linear of a park and then we're done. So that's let's put that on our priority list. Add the linear parks to the top of the list.
>> Thank you. >> And finally 10 years. >> Can't rush into these things. They don't all connect. >> I just go doesn't matter. I >> can I circle back to >> Thanks, devil. >> Circle. >> Can I Can I circle back to uh
>> 45 minutes circle? >> Yeah, good. >> That's how I drive. Um Oh, take me off my train of thought. >> Sorry. >> I know, but where where to
>> Joe? Can I just interrupt for one second? >> No, because I'm going to totally lose. Yes, of course. because I I just don't want to. So So let's say we do let's say we do decide to make the trails linear parks. Okay. It it does go back to Phyllis's point of
how would we know? >> I think the state would check in on it at that point. >> The state would check in on that makes it not within so many feet of Right. I'm not with so many feet of a park or a >> Yes, you are. You're within the D road. You're this close to the sea road. >> Now the ones that already there are
grandfathered in if we do this right. certain individuals that have to register their >> correct. Okay. >> Okay. All right. Thanks. Sorry, I just wanted to finish that in my mind. I appreciate >> and we could also point that out in the RV thing that hey, just so you know, we have this sexual offender ordinance in place. This we have a linear park. Keep this in mind when you're renting to your
people that they can't you can't have one here because you're within so many feet of the park. >> Well, and the argument that somebody isn't isn't registered, how are we going to be able to monitor? That's like saying somebody didn't go show up for their probation. So, that's that's not within our purview. No, but like Todd's
point is a good one in that when the sex offender registers with their parole officer, whoever it is that they register with this website >> end up on the website. Now, can we then look at that and say, "Hey, parole officer, you missed the fact that there's a park right there." >> We'd have to ask Mr. Curts.
>> Okay. I'm sure I'm sure we could call the state and say, "Hey, this guy just registered to live here. He's within 200 feet of our park." >> Well, it's if they're on parole, it's a violation of parole. That's >> right. That's a big no no. >> Okay. All right. I'm sorry. Did you remember? I just had to finish. >> I think I can circle back now. So,
circle back would be Microphone's off. >> Would it? Is it okay? Would be code enforcement seems to me to work on low fruit hanging, meaning they're going to go after the
guy that signed up because they know where they are. While in the backside down the back roads there's 10 or 15 RVs that are not even registered, not allowed to be there, not even th this is
a problem. It it so instead of focusing on the guy like the late who has jumped through the hoops, filled out the forms and is trying to be in compliance. We need code enforcement to be actively
looking for those who are not. Number one. Number two, I think that a five-year uh RV uh application is ridiculous. And I and here's why. Because you should be able to go, I have an RV site that's not
being used this year. I'm not going to pay. But I have one being used this year. I'd like to go in and pay. If it's a $100 a year, I'll pay. >> Well, the payment lasts for five years. You make one payment and you're >> of $500. >> So if you don't want to use it, you don't want to use it. >> But but I've >> it's $100
>> if it's a care. >> It's not per it's not per >> it is 500. It's 500 for a nonag bon classified property >> ticket and you're not at >> and it it's 100 if you are bonafideed a >> mine with a 100. It's mine an egg and
that's it. >> I still >> I don't either. I just feel let's let's let's be real about something real quick. >> That's why I get it simplified. >> Let's be real about something real quick. We are the only city >> that this is a thing. >> Yeah. >> Right. Cuz I can tell you right now
you you even if you want to you buy a piece of property and you want to build on it and you want to put a trailer on it for temporary, you got to jump through so many stinking hoops and you got to pull a separate permit to anchor that trailer to da da da da. You have to
have a a portable septic. You have to have all this stuff and you have to jump through all these hoops. Nobody has a, hey, come pull a permit so you can make money renting out little pieces of concrete on your property. Right. >> That was not the intention that >> I agree. But I'm just saying that going
back and you were probably there >> was let's provide an the ability for the equestrian influx of populace to be located where the horses The idea was
>> an a it it was initially uh brought up as for equestrian >> influx. The idea was during season >> because the idea was during season that you could that you whoever was boarding at your place could park an RV there and
their their groom or whatever and they instead of paying astronomical whatever and they could pay you to stay there and the groom would be there 24/7 with a horse. I get it. the council let him >> but that's not what it is now >> as you know this is one of my pet peeves complain about years also but the my
complaint is other council the big complaint was they left it year round I'm 100% on board for equestrian it should be equestrian season they come in and register so we know who's where like we're saying >> and then after the season ends they leave except for maybe the exception where somebody stays and is takes care
of the stalls or whatever you know who they are or of course the nurseries have their guards but these people should leave we shouldn't have year round rentals and right now it's year- round rentals and I complained about as soon as it passed that you supposed to tailor it only to the equestrian season. They come and they register.
>> And Robert, I thought it was for 6 months. Point of order. >> Robert, I agree that this is this is de facto increased density is what it comes order. But we're not getting tax. >> Caretakers on nurseries are allowable mobile home off off a mobile home site.
Sorry. I just want to clear that. >> We do. We do. >> Yeah. I mean that that's I think that's the takeaway is I mean let's let's clarify. So our code enforcement is not it it's complaintbased. It's not a proactive code, right?
>> Health and safety. >> It it's Yeah. Unless it's health and safety, right? >> To do it septic. >> So unless Yeah. So has septic health and safety. >> Septic and it's on a back five. We can't do it. >> That's the that that's the hitch, right?
So, if you're in a highly wooded lot and somebody has cleared out the middle of the lot and they put five or 10 trailers or RVs, hold on. Please, please. You have a you have a 5 acre lot, okay? And somebody clears out sections
in the five acre lot like it's a little state park and they run power and you can't see it from the road because there's a hedge or whatever. And you they've they've very meticulously done this. We're never going to know unless somebody does a complaint.
>> Change that to which they cut out the year round campers. They can't come in April and stay till November. They need to leave at whatever >> I'm talking aside from the people that are complying even with the year round aspect of it. Sir, my point is we have plenty that aren't even trying to
comply. It's like it's like the tractor trailer and the dump truck storage. I keep going back. I'm sure everybody's tired of hearing me say this story, but I'm standing in Costco and this guy's telling his buddy right there how just go to like Lockache Groves and buy five acres and let and and you know and let
them park dump trucks and you charge $500 a month to park your dump truck until they stop you and it's going to take them forever to stop you. So, it's along the same lines. So, Lisa, I'm sorry. >> No, no, I I want to I want I want I'm putting my light on. Um, so
the the complaint driven and health and safety, why is that the case >> exactly? >> If you turn them loose, you are going to get like we had when CAT first took over and you had, and I'm sure you won't mind me saying it,
>> turning loose. Why are we a complaint driven code enforcement system? >> It's it because if you're not complaint driven, you're the opposite, right? It's a proactive code enforcement. So if you're not complain driven, it's proactive. Okay? >> Right? Not to say we can't give direction to be proactive toward this
and this and this just hit it the sign. So there if you just go straight proactive, then you have people given no out here for height the grass. I'm just saying >> we Yes, we've talked about creating
council prioritized code enforcement. >> And we did for industrial use, right? We have tried >> I know >> lowhanging fruit right. How do we get the results at the ground level which is
the furthest from where we touch as a council member >> right >> as a matter of fact it's out of our reach. We we have been asking for it previous councils asked for it to ad nauseium. How do we get the final results driven? And I I think that we
have to as a council, it's kind of like parenting. We have to have a united front. This is what we said 30 minutes late, 30 days later. Why is it not done 30 days later? Why is >> I disrespect the answer would be their plate is so full that they couldn't put it.
>> Why is their plate? Because they're filling it up with lowhanging fruit. >> Right. >> Well, I agree. Why Why are we go? Listen, I'm I'm That's why I'm saying it needs to be brought to somebody's attention. this is what's happening cuz honestly maybe Karen doesn't know. So by you going to Francine and saying hey
listen can you please check into this because this doesn't seem this seems like maybe somebody had the wrong direction or is misunderstanding. So we're going to go over. So she says something to Karen and Karen goes to Sam and says >> back to the pillars that pillar of code enforcement
supporting the value of our land. If you're next to the semi-tractor trailer repair place you ever going to sell your property? >> No. you next to the illegal uh slaughterhouse. No. Right. So, if we want to protect and
support our overarching final goal, that code enforcement has to be >> cut and dry. You do this, you're you're getting in trouble. Absolutely right. Take away lowhanging fruit. Make it super simple to get the people. See
who's going to comply. Train them. Train them. You're a good puppy. point. >> You went and did your job. >> So, point the sword. Point the gun. >> We But we have to get there as a council and we have to get whether that is a
monthly in our agenda report of where they're proactively going, >> right? >> We just have to come up with a plan that gets that our level. >> So, so they they somebody goes through this, right, and listens to this or whatever and takes notes or Anita's past
and somebody was taking notes. No, I I I took notes last time and then they did it on AI and it wound up exactly the same thing. So there >> I think at this point if we have a consensus that we want or or I'll ask for it. I would like a report from
community standards as to and I'm not talking about >> so many in compliance so many this. No, I want to know how many >> manures have been cited since I don't know January 1. whatever the case may be and
how many have come into compliance and how many haven't. >> Yes, I agree. >> Right. Not not some I mean I don't need >> illegal trailer parks. >> How many illegal trailer parks, >> right? I don't care about >> we have consensus shut down. I don't think anybody's going to see no doubt. >> I mean I I'm asking for the documentation. So I don't think we need
a consensus. >> 15 illegal trailer parks identified and one has been completely shut down or coming to life. Then then we then we can set some new standards. Okay. We'd want you to shut down two a month for the next right >> six months and then and then we'll be
done with except for the new ones. Yeah, exactly. Because they're gonna pop up, right? Until until we we start a trend, >> right? Like this guy on Southern with his tractor trailers, right? It kind of was a big blow up and then it's just
kind of simmer down, right? Nothing's really come to fruition, right? So what? Everybody else is buying up properties and parking tractor trailers cuz why? This guy was able to do it. >> Proliferation, >> right? So, >> two two things. We've got about 30 more
minutes from our time certain. And Virginia has something she'd like to say. She's been waggling her hand for quite a few minutes if we can let her >> support here. >> So, speak. >> Great process, great thought. So, let me
start with the most recent direction you gave staff signs. Nothing's happened. >> So you're talk No, I applaud you for dealing with this. This is a very serious issue. We are all longtime residents. I I applaud this and I I'm
glad to hear you're doing this. So let's start with the most basic direction you just gave him recently, signs. There's no reason, and I'm not talking about sign laws that aren't on the books. There's basic signs that they were discussed that could be done. And what
have I seen on Okachobee Boulevard? Bunch of stake stakes in the ground for people who are not even in the community. So I guess that would be a question. >> The little reeler signs they get pulled up detailing. >> I can tell you our our former uh public
works director like twice a week in the morning thing was >> he was pulling them right. >> I might have them up this weekend when I was doing a great job and I applaud them. But that that could be something to encourage. you're not getting involved in code enforcement, but your
process, your procedure. This is a discussion you had with them. What is the update on it? And hey, yes, can public works start pulling doing the basics, pulling that up in addition to the there's regs on real estate signs, but some of these signs I've seen,
>> but I've never heard >> or the new ones excessive. >> Yeah, I can tell you our dumpster work is like mainly like one dumpster is always half full of signs that don't my stuff. >> Can the public deize themselves and just
pluck them out themselves? >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> I'm not saying you can debit yourself. >> You can go follow your It's a free country. You do what you want to do. >> But there's no reason. >> It's a free country. Not a law against that. I know. But I'm not a not a lawyer.
>> Right. >> I can tell you when we did the the cleanup on Oak Choy Boulevard this last weekend, two of them went in the bag. >> I just said I I I took care of a couple. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's trash on the side of the road. >> It's not even our rightway, >> right? It's not, >> you know. So, I mean, yeah. Yeah. So, I
my point is is like we point the sword, right? So, but if we get this report, we can say, "Oh, look, because everybody's like everybody, you know, what's going on? What's going on?" So, if we get this report that's very not so generic and so broad, it kind of points out and says,
"Hey, we did this and we did this." you know we oh okay they are doing it's not just Jane that's getting hassled over >> the one thing that I keep pointing to with that communication thing that like constant contact thing you don't know where a code enforcement case is the the
interested parties the neighbors should be getting some kind of I don't know I get those annoying text messages all day long I don't know like a text message every month this is what happened at the magistrate hearing and and they have 45 more days to comply because that's what
the law says and then they go into foreclosure. Just like some kind of a of a touch point to keep the the the people that made the complaint and the interested parties, the neighbors within, you know, so much should get that want to, you know, can be asked.
Mr. Austin, would you like to be on a phone list where you receive a text as to what the status is on this case? >> This communication communication communication thing is so important. Yes, I know it's online, but then that's right. But even if they did, then the
impetus is on you to go look for it as opposed to I'm saying you're an interested party in the outcome of our of our process and part of that process. This is where I'm talking about these checklists. One of the things we were all the interested parties notified of this step, step A, step B, step C. Were
all interested parties notified? I think that that communication issue is so missing in everything we do here from getting the phones answered to keeping people in the loop of what's going on because I think that although Mr. Austin is extremely frustrated and understandably so that this process
takes over a year to go from A to B, if he had if he but I'm just saying that this process takes an interminably long time to go from A to B. Okay. But if he had been kept in the loop and knew, okay, they
actually are doing something. It's when it's invisible and people are sitting there going, "Nothing's happening. Nothing's happening. Nothing's happening." Even if all you can tell them is happening is we had a hearing and the magistrate gave them 90 days to comply. Even if that's all you have to report, it's still something. It still
says we're doing something. >> Preach, sister. >> MGO connect sucks. very very hard and I'm sure you're talking about MGO connect gov easy is now defunct um that
MGO connect is horrible it is it is impossible to get into um the town requires you to give a phone number um we've talked repeatedly about why do people have to give numbers you can go on anonymously on gov easy and just and search information yeah and and while it
was still lacking in some detail MGO connect horrific I don't agree that staff needs another job to be calling people that were in code. It could be as simple as a a um just letting them know
with their complaint, but um I think the problem is well I just got used to go easy which I was able to find things on and this look I look all the time. I go to other states and I look up properties
and I've never had so much problem as here. And these folks could find out the information themselves if you gave us a website that we could navigate. >> Yes, >> we would bother staff so much less.
>> Well, I think I think what Leo was saying was to go go like a like a textbased notification like and they could up when they update the file. It would be Yeah. Oh, I I >> you know you know what I'm saying? It's like it's no different than that red alert or whatever that >> Yeah, but we don't have this.
>> The first step is at least have it online, right? That's the first step. >> Yeah. No, I accessibility for sure. So, um I I'd like to jump ship for a moment here. So, I we didn't get to the 5% um uh
reduction, which would come back on another agenda. So council council has um probably not fully aware probably not phrasing this right but projected point
projected point was presented to us as the best option for an accounting firm projected points the the owner of that his son was working for the town that's fine but projected point had three invoices that were for February, March,
and April prior to the May meeting where they were brought on and and hired by the town. Those invoices happen to fall below the threshold because they got a transition discount applied to them. They were not hired by the town. I think
this $25,000 spending cap was never intended for anything that had recurring payments involved. It was for a purchase of a car at an auction because code enforcement needed it or we had a a great >> It was a cumulative $25,000 cap.
>> Yeah. I mean, >> I'm pretty sure it is. >> It is, but this is not a every month of an accounting firm. This is an accounting firm that's going to become now our finance director. >> I agree with you. I'm just I'm just clarifying. I'm saying I'm I'm pretty sure that the cap, the $25,000, like if
it if it's a recurring payment, it can't be approved under that over the $25,000. >> I don't think it should be applied to anything that has a recurring payment, whether it's a cumulative cap or not. And then I think even though it says it's in the budget, we all know that the
budget numbers are fairly fluid. I would still like to see a cumulative cap on all those $25,000 spending possibilities. So maybe it you're you're going to cap out you can use the $25,000 spending limit and it
maxes out at $150,000 in any one year. Beyond that it has to then come before council. >> So she would have >> what >> the manager would have the ability to >> to cap five things like to spend $25,000 five times in a year
>> or under. Right. >> Yeah. or I'm just saying you're saying cap, but you were the way you were saying it was so the $25$25,000 cap >> capped in the budget. Right. >> Right. But those that $25,000 should is not should not be open-ended spending
because we don't understand how much we're budgeting. We we town now for almost 20 years. We should know what we're spending money on, right? So to continually come up with these these expenditures that are really expected but unexpected, we should not
be so blindsided at this point. And again, I have grave concern over somebody coming on through a procurement process that should be transparent that is being brought in under cover and then oh well this is the best one. He
was already working for the town for 90 days is my point. But maybe maybe that was the intention is hey let's try this out and oh this did work out so let's bring him on full time >> that's not how our procurement works right and we were already paying an accounting firm that was doing that so
and his son had started here in December that this to me is a loophole that the council needs to close and and I think that's something that we should be very cautious of because we have a procurement process and I think we need to be very >> this concept we have of looking at
contracts >> well in advance well in advance is going to help some of that because we get into these we get boxed in. I mean we continually get boxed in. We continually >> say we're going to just like the budgeting process this year. We said we were going to start meeting with the
fact like you know in May and then here we are again and it's October and we have to vote and we had never even got to meet. So it's the same thing we have this is something that I agree with you. We have to put our foot down about these like really hard deadlines of we have to look at these things well in advance.
Okay, we knew in August when mutilinics of >> misent that information that they had to go and that was the moment at which we needed to start looking at a new accounting firm >> August 24th.
>> You know, we knew when that transmitt was wrong, we knew that that was an egregious error and that that it could which could have been catastrophic. Turned out not to be, but could have been catastrophic. I mean it was an egregious error made on their on behalf of the town and we needed to replace
that firm then that's the moment to look just like I'm saying we're we've had conversations about change potentially changing town managers now's the time to look at that not for an October contract in September I mean it's just not it's just not so we need to start looking at
these things well enough in advance that we don't run into these these issues and this is where I think that's going to really help you No, that's why I brought when I the first meeting and that was a bad forum. I brought I brought up >> the manager contract because I knew it was coming up and I knew it was going to
be a thing. I'm like, we need to start talking about this now, not in September. >> It still got buried till >> it still and we still took us a long time. >> Stand firm and not let that happen. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, I mean that that was the whole reason I brought it up. It wasn't anything against anybody. It was just I knew
>> the contract was coming up that year, right? Or I was I was aware. So I was clarifying it was coming up then we need to deal with this now and along that line. So that's why you know that's why I brought up the whole thing about fact and I may maybe they don't need to meet now because it's Christmas and whatever.
I get that but you know >> it's not a good month for no but you know starting into the new year >> putting it on a queue. >> I mean you know I don't even think we need to wait till the election and wait for members to be you know there's no
reason why >> we don't stop. I know, but you you know what I'm saying? And there's no reason cuz the only there's two positions that the two seats are up. So those those other three can maintain or whatever depending on what happens, you know, and then just the ones that need to fill the
seat fill the seat, right? >> It doesn't matter who gets elected. We're going to try to keep moving forward with unity. >> No, no, you're miss No. What I'm saying is is it's not like we have to stop, wait for the election, then rename the the the committee. we just fill in the committee like we've been filling in the
committee all all this whole past year. So, I mean that's >> but there's there's other examples of these things that get shelved and all under the guise of oh, it's there's an election. There's an election. >> No, listen. I I think I think the I think the writing's on the wall and I think >> folks are understanding that we're not
taking this we're just going to back burner this. >> Well, and that's what we we've already given direction that we need to get these contracts way earlier. Contract is going to be coming, right? I think is I think the flare's been sent. >> You know, the flare's been sent, the writing's on the wall, what however you
want to say it. Somebody's cranking on the siren, you know. >> So, so on a good note, I did uh come in the other day and they had an EFT list to be signed, but there's 24 items from Ingenuity. >> I saw that, too. I'm the second
signature on it, and I asked that question, but the person who gave it to me to sign wasn't able to answer. >> Correct. figured >> they were down 1130 though, right? >> No, we said where my when are we going to be done with it that >> agreed. So that that has moved forward. It's kind of like about the Tricia
invoices. I had a problem signing off on >> Yeah. Yeah. That one last check >> trickling trickling in >> like >> Well, there was a last one and then another last one. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. No, because I' I've been asking because there's there's somebody who's
>> wanting to uh either expand his current garage or add another whatever. And he's like, "But I can't find a concrete guy." I said, "Just be patient. Be patient." And he's like the the 20 like right before Thanksgiving, he's texting me. He's like, "Hey, can I send my stuff
out?" I'm like, "Dude, be patient." I said, "Be patient, man." >> I have I have one other one other thing. Sorry, Tracy. So, Mythbusters, >> a cool show. >> That's where it should stay. So, the
town being the mythbuster, I I printed up the Mythbuster page, it's incomplete. Uh, the claim, the rumor, I don't know who decided the rumors were. I think that you could make statements like the finance committee said these things. And
while I think what happens here and this is why I say we all need to be in marriage counseling is people are saying words and people have they have an association with those words in their mind of well when you talk about the Southern
Boulevard corridor and you talk about commercial well you're talking south of Citrus and Tangerine um but we're talking about the Southern Boulevard boulevard corridor and we here to collecting canal because there's another page on the town website that talks
about to collecting canal. So there's there's information that causes I think some of this this disconnect for people and there's also references to the strategic plan and talking about oh well the strategic
plan showed that we were going to go from collecting canal at one point. Well I'm sorry the strategic plan is mentioned one time and citrus road is mentioned five times. So, I'm a little concerned about >> guess that's a good reason to do a study of that corridor and figure out what the
hell we're talking about, which is the whole point of it because it is mentioned >> that. But it it keeps coming out. >> You say the words, right? And this is why I say there's a disconnect between what people are saying and what people are hearing. I don't find this
mythbuster thing to to actually create any warm fuzzy that this is now fully understood. I I think that this is still very confusing to people. I don't think we need to be and we're going to be voting on this at the the meeting
because this is going to be coming up. I know March has stated repeatedly it's south of citrus and tangerine. That is all I've talked to everybody I can get from that that timeline and they are adamant absolutely south >> for commercial. >> For commercial, right? But but this
study isn't just for commercial. It's talking about buffers and that sort of thing. And you might want to have a buffer north of there, right? Whether it's a park or whatever it might be. >> Well, that's all in here. That's all already established. It talks about how in in the strategic plan, you're going to have a buffer north of C. You're
going to have a horse trail in a council previous to us had approved a project north of there. And we got it changed to south of there. So, that's the whole point of getting all this like >> actually ironed out once and for all so you don't have the he said, she said
going on. I mean, that's the whole point to get it ironed out and in writing and in >> it already is. It's in the comprehensive plan. >> But yet it happened. >> But yet it happened. >> Council approved. >> Yet the council approved it. It happened. >> Well, that's why you have to be careful
who you elect. >> Well, but it's not just because I'm not I'm not the end all beall. I don't know everything about So, correct me if I'm wrong. Somebody who knows more about comp plans, etc. But it's a comp plan.
It's not it's not zoning. It's not it's a comp plan. It's a comprehensive plan. And when I hear the word plan, I'm going to use the word. It's the a word. It's aspirational. This is what I'm No. >> When I Hold on. Stop. When I hear plan, this is what we plan on doing. It's something that's can be fluctuated. It's
something that can be changed. However you got to change it, it's something that can be changed. I think the point in this whole study is is to solidify where it is. It's it it's not saying the overlay goes to southern to to
collecting. It's saying that this is the area of concern. We are not going we are not going to discuss. >> Have you read this? >> Yeah. We're what the Mythbuster thing? No. because it it takes statements by certain people and it says that we were
going to put in a a taxing district for commercial, right? That that's was the genesis that that this claims was the reason this all moved forward was creating a taxing district. >> We potentially creating a taxing
district, >> right? And then we heard tonight from the sheriff, you know, and we talked about how three ways you could increase taxes on those properties, right? Um the arm twisting way or the nice way, right? So again, I'm not sure this actually
>> created the result you were hoping. >> I I honestly haven't read it. So my request is that my request is that you give us time to take a look at it. And I believe it's on the agenda for that meeting. We have 13 minutes and we have another citizen who wants to talk >> because it says chart insert chart here. Map insert map.
>> So again, I would appreciate giving us the opportunity to look at it and then we could discuss it. >> Tracy, >> I finally have something. >> You're you're the last one up. So >> we didn't cover it. Darn. >> Well, since you guys were talking about fact, this is directly about fact. Todd has said, at least I know for a fact
three meetings that you guys have had is why didn't fact do this? Why didn't fact do that? back hasn't met from August till the end of April this past year. We still haven't met since August 19th. It's really hard being on that committee
when you're thrown a huge packet the night before and have presentations for your whole meeting. So, you're not able to really discuss things. We were never as a committee told you guys need to come up. We were supposed
to have a joint meeting with you 2 days later after our August 19th meeting or 18th meeting. We were supposed to have a joint meeting and then several of us came to that meeting and it was not a joint meeting. So we were very confused cuz that's when we talked about it at our meeting that we were going to
present and say, "Hey, we did say it had to reduce spending. Where can we figure this out?" Not anything about the millage or anything like that. Our biggest thing was don't raise taxes. So with us not being able to meet, we have
new people and then Phyllis left. Now we have new person again. That person was at one meeting with us. That's not really fair. We don't have a whole quorum every single time. >> So I don't know how we can do better as a fact committee for you guys when we
don't have enough meetings. And when we do have meetings, we're bombarded with presentations the entire time. Every meeting we had, there was presentations by both twice, by Mr. Delina. We didn't even know who the heck he was for a long
time. Um, he wasn't our finance person. And then he wasn't he wasn't even presenting >> his own data. So, we were very confused by the whole thing. >> And then you have Mary that came in and presented and then we have meetings after. So, we're very shortened as it
is. So, I don't know how we can work with you guys better when we're presented with with that. >> Again, I hopefully we can we're working on it and it's actually on here. The item after the uldc that we didn't get
to that we will get to on January 6, I believe it is. Don't miss Don't quote me. The very next item is joint meeting with fact and council to talk about >> Yeah, it's already set to talk about I think it's the 19th. Nice. Um to talk
about exactly what you just brought up, what our expectations are, what is getting done, isn't getting done, and why it's not getting done so we can all work it out together. >> For sure. And having more meetings for us would be more beneficial because we didn't >> because I get a different I get a different complaint from my fac. My fact
member tells me that the reason nothing gets done is because the the meetings are um commandeered by one member of the committee. Um, well, I'm just everybody's entitled to an opinion and I'm just telling you what my f member tells me is that no one else gets to
speak except for one member. It's just what my f member says. So, >> any of you watch every >> I have and I've actually come to them and I found his observation to be very accurate, painfully accurate. So, um, that and that's just my opinion. So, um, you know, we'll have to see what what
other people feel like, but hopefully we can all together come to some kind of resolution to try to make it more effective and so that everybody on the committee feels like their voice is heard and that they're being, you know, being productive because nothing's worse than going to a meeting like you're
saying right now and feeling like your opinion and your voice isn't isn't as important as everybody else's on the committee. No, really what it comes down to is understanding the material that's thrown in front of me. Lots of numbers. And when you're sitting there, when I tell you the amount of amount of work
that I do in those three months is astronomical. I'm up till midnight, 1:00 in the morning and there's a lot of stuff you don't understand and then you're trying to find it and then you're going back. >> Might I remind you I was on that committee for about 14 years. So you know, so I'm painfully aware of how much
is and it's hard and they're little. The numbers are so small, too. >> Yeah. And it and it doesn't help. >> I know. Can we do something about the font size on the font? >> It's so here I'm like gonna span it up like this and try to
be nice if we did have we were able to have more meetings so we're not in April talking about the budget when we haven't even seen third, fourth, fifth quarter. First quarter. >> Got it. Okay, we got eight minutes. Who's got something super important? I have my light on.
>> I came from the I think I think if you recall when we used when we March, April, we were like we need to get these committees back up and rolling, right? And one of the ones we were talking about was the fat committee because it had not been in place since August, right? That was one of our biggest pushes. PCB only comes around when it
needs to, you know, that kind of thing. So, you know, and at the last meeting I brought up the fact that I thought that maybe we need to get it kicked back up and you know, again, December is not a, you know, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Hanukkah, etc. is not a good time to start a committee
back up. So, I think, you know, >> you do have September and October >> expect dealing with quarterlys, >> preacher, choir. Okay. So, just my point is is is I think the joint meeting is going to be good. We're going to give some direction. I think it's going to be, you know, I I think it's going to be
good. So, and we're going to try and start up before we get to the point so you're not trying to cram all that in 3 months. I think everybody sitting here would agree that's egregious and it's not, you know, >> I think it's fair to the town. That's yeah, that's and and on that note, I
know that when you're applying for something >> and you put that money in that in that escrow account, you know, for your whatever variance or application you're putting in that you part of that is you can meet with committees and you can
meet with count. But I to me why that applicant needed to meet with a fat committee just really it's it's a you know that doesn't make any sense to me. think they want the fact that they were going to be it's my understanding >> I I I understand what their their I
understand what the idea was but my point is is I cannot see in my mind why >> best use of time >> the best use of time for that committee is to meet with any kind of developer etc whatever >> we don't even >> I don't see why you know yes Mr. Danella
when he's first Delina sorry Dave right David right I getting that part right >> it's okay >> so you know he knows I get it wrong so I think I think he's used to um but you know I I think that's because it's in line with that you know makes sense but it it kind of be like
>> Mr. Delina going to ULDC meeting and and going hey guys so listen um you know I'm I'm going to put signs and you know approvals and stuff in this line it makes no sense right so I just think moving forward we need to see if there anywhere we we can curtail that these
things go to these committees and these things go to that right I think it's a waste of time >> because I think they burnt one or two meetings >> could we have workshops like us sitting here talking to you guys >> well that's what I was wondering that's what I was going to ask you maybe you guys could have workshops like we are where staff isn't necessarily here
>> many times we >> yeah we do have that one person >> and nobody and they didn't have a quorum that wanted that could be there at the time >> I believe they did I'm not saying the ball hasn't been dropped since then but I believe after that request was made they made three separate attempts to try
to get a quorum but I believe if memory serves me it was a holiday time of year much like it is right now like maybe summer and people were going away starting in August August of last year when the next time we're going to meet. Oh, we don't know. Okay, then September came along. Nope. October. And then
nothing ever happened until the end of April. >> Right. >> So, we did ask >> I mean I'm not making excuses, but I do know that when they talked about having the workshops where you can talk, they did try to get a quorum together and they made like three attempts and they couldn't get one and then I think the ball got dropped. I think it be really
really helpful for us to be able to give the information to you guys so we actually have a conversation about it instead of just sit there and listen to all these numbers going back and forth and never get our questions answered. >> Well, and one of the things that we kept hearing too was that uh there were no
topics to be discussed. So now each one of the committees has a list of topics in here. It was made known to me one time in ULDC that we worked on direction of counsel and it seems like and and oddly enough when I was on re retak
>> trails when I was on that committee before it got shut down I purposely said okay we've done trail signs which unfortunately they got them doing them again I don't know why but that's what's happening um we we finished trail signs so the next thing we maybe we need to look at the road design etc make sure
that the town has a cohesive design for these roads encompassing the trail etc. and the next meeting was done, right? Then come back to UDC and say, "Oh, no, it's by direction of counsel." So, since it's by direction of council, we are giving direction. And since we've been
told recently that we don't give direction, of course, we're all newly together, but we're going to we're giving direction and I think you're going to see it >> be huge. That's a huge >> I think you're going to see some good stuff coming up here after J after January 6th, kind of easing into next year. I think you're going to see some
good stuff coming, you know, and we listen, we were doing a lot of fires over the summer, right? There's a lot of stuff going on that whatever. So, >> there's always something going on >> that that happened. We're moving forward. >> A lot of extra. >> Yeah, a lot of extra there. >> Extra. It's a good one. >> My students would say it was extra. It's the native. We have three minutes.
>> But I do I do think Sorry. I do think Paul that um having served on as many committees as you did, I think the committees are often a great place to to create and germinate those ideas to council to then council say yes move in
those directions like that instead of council has to be and this is some of my past experience somehow you have to be the creator of all this information. It's like we're not government people. We don't we don't know what we exactly. >> Yeah. I'm not Liz. I'm not >> them to be our experts. So they may be able to tell us lots of lots of minds.
>> Yeah. I'm not I'm not saying solely what we say if they got an idea. >> I was just expanding on Absolutely. >> how it has been portrayed in the past. >> Absolutely. >> And I think the c the committee should be cross-pollinating with council. >> They should be able to test this, but
then we have to vote on whether we want them to actually um >> but I mean officially >> delve into the >> like an official thing. >> Yeah. But I think that's how we operate. You say look at signs and it's a broad sweep and we go okay we're going to dig into signs and this is how we see it
>> right >> that's how it gets back >> well I think on the point of >> we think this is important to start looking at signs now we come back to look at potholes >> well it okay >> that's I think that's kind of like what happened >> be a request for a committee
>> report then because if it's not coming through >> those channels Then >> I don't understand why those things h >> and that's maybe what what needs to happen because there are a lot of times where we have as a council I'll you know have said hey let's go this way let's
you know this is it's still under the purview of some lines >> and move that way and then and so maybe a report from from the committee itself to chair >> or whether that's a written >> cherish report >> whether it's written or >> written and included in our in our agendas you know I think
>> that's not a bad >> just gave a verbal report and and what I did was I would just before I left I would just okay so let's be clear on what I'm saying everybody agrees to make sure that it really was what the whole committee right >> wanted not just what myself or one or two
>> so that would go on the agenda after the meeting that we had >> was was fact chair's report >> right so because it's not on the agenda now so it would be >> something it could just be something quick some you know I mean just I like verbal >> you think that that's better I think it
should be included in the agenda, but I also think it should be interactive because I know that there's a lot of times when when I gave the fact report that that's >> there's a question particularly about members and I think that that's true and that's the cross column meeting and that's where the ideas can be germinated
back and forth like Lisa's saying okay our time >> and and then also I just wanted to say thank you guys this is awesome I I really really really productive I really like this I know it's a lot of time out of you guys got a lot on your plates but thank You >> You're welcome.
>> We are in >> I was just going to reflect on what you just said. Thank you guys so very much for doing this. The education is is priceless. I'm sitting back in the cheap seats and just listening and absorbing. So the more of these the better. Thank you. And I think most important, happy
holidays, guys. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, we're guys. >> Turn all your >> things off.