Okay, good evening everybody. We are here to begin the July 1st count council meeting. Um if we could have all stand for the pledge of allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United
States of America to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Hey, uh oh, we didn't do our moment of
silence. Let's do a moment of silence. There's a lot going on in the world. Let's just do that. And let's also think about having a nice meeting. Wisdom brought to us and good karma and wisdom brought to our council meeting this evening.
Okay. Thank you. Valerie, we could have a roll call, please. Council member Coleman here. Council member McClendon here. Council member El Remy here. Vice Mayor Herszog. Mayor Kaine present. Town manager Ramaya here.
Public works director Galant. He's in the building. Uh town attorney Torivia here. Okay. Any delions additions? Deletations are Oh, no. I'm sorry. This is the moment where we allow
public comment on non-aggenda items. Do we have any Val? I have not received any. Okay, then. Oh, wait. I have received one. We have now received one. Miss McNicholas, Mary McNicholas, 12845 Raymond Drive. I
have come bearing a gift for the council and for staff. It is from I was at the opening of Royal Palm Beach uh village center last evening where they have done a large work of art arts and public
places um statue and it is absolutely beautiful. The mayor Himera's wife made replicas of this. And in within the tree that is out there next to the pool, the
ponds, it is lit up and it has all the words of what they asked the community what Royal Palm Beach meant to them. And it it's really a beautiful site. It's very, very endearing. I know we don't have anything like this, but maybe we
have a little replica. It talks about my safe place, community barbecues, community events, good neighbors. Hopefully, this brings a little tiny bit of good juju as far as this goes. So, do I need a receiving file? I thought it
was a money tree here. I got excited for a second. That might be able to be done, but not on my watch. So, Carolyn Himera did make this and she wanted me to give it to you all. A motion to receive and file. One second. Second. All in favor?
I Thank you so much. It's beautiful. Yeah, it is quite pretty. The replicas are quite nice. Um, any anybody else, Val? Not at this time. Okay. So, council, we have a conundrum and this is
our conundrum. Um, we generally don't start our meetings till 6:30 and we know that some people set their clock by when our meetings start. However, we do have a number of people here from outside agencies that are here to um address item number one on our agenda. So, the
conundrum is do will is somebody willing to make a motion to go ahead and start the regular agenda at like 6:10. It's 6:06 now. Um and give people four minutes to get here or should we adjourn until 6:30? Do I
hear some discussion on that? I I'm fine with maybe starting at 6:15 with the presentation, right? I know that there are people that have concern about that, but there's been certainly a lot of community chatter output on that. So,
anybody else have any opinion? Yeah. 6:15 or 6:30 either way. Okay. And if the presentation is short, then we journal till it's not going to be short. Would you like to make a motion to adjourn until you want to do additions, modifications, and deletions before
then? Oh, well, guess what? The decision was just made for us. There people that we have that are zooming, which is several other people are not zooming in until 6:30. So, why don't we do additions, deletions, and agenda a little bit? I do
knew that item number three has been pulled. Um, I've been informed that item number three has been pulled. We're zooming with Mr. Book, correct? Do we What time is that set up for? They're all set up for 6:30. They're all set up at 6:30 as well. Do you want my consent
polls or No. Um, well, let's get a uh Sure. Let's do the consent agenda first. All right. I'd like to pull item eight and nine just for a question. Anybody else? Six and 12. Six and 12. 12's kind of confusing
because there's two different things there. So, but anyway, I guess 6 8 9 6 and 12. Anybody else? Okay. Can I have a motion to approve the consent to Well, no, wait a minute. 12's on the regular agenda. We were just doing the consent. So, let's
just do the consent. 12 is in consent. It's on. No, it's not. It's on the regular agenda. I am right. I know. on the amend. Well, I have a I think I have a different Stop. Stop. She's It says regular agenda. Amended. But on the
amended agenda, 12 is on consent. So now you can pull it on consent. Thank you, Lisa, for pointing that out. You're welcome. Eight. So I need a motion to approve the consent agenda with 6, 8, 9, and 12. Well, we need to approve the agenda before we get to the consent
agenda. Well, we kind of just agreed that we were going to move to the consent and get that done. Then go back and prove the approve the reg. I think we need to approve the whole agenda. Let's approve the whole agenda. When we do the consent, I make a a motion to approve the agenda with number three
pulled from the agenda by staff. 6 8 9 and 12 pulled from consent for discussion. Second. All in favor? I opposed. Passes 52. Mayor, I I need to make a point just so everybody's I said mayor. I need to Sorry, I will.
No, I I'll try to annunciate better. Um I'm currently on call so there might be a chance that very slim, but if I get a call, I have to you scooch. Yeah, FYI. Okay. So, all right. Thank you. Um
All right. So, now I guess the only thing left for us to do is to adjourn until 6:30. Motion to adjourn until 6:30. Second. All in favor? Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Sorry.
It was really hot that Okay, we're going to come to order two minutes early. Um, I'd just like to start our uh before our first presentation by saying a couple of things. First of all, I want to acknowledge Elizabeth Akamando who's the chair of IG who's here with us. she invited me to their meeting last week
about this same topic of our first presentation which I appreciate the collaboration and working together to try to protect our communities. So, thank you. And also John Carter who's here representing Vice Mayor Baxter's office and here to answer questions and let us know what's going on. Um the
first thing that I want to make sure everybody understands is we have zero control over whether this CSX project happens. It's it's happening. Um, so what we do have control over is trying to keep our residents safe. Um, trying to keep them with access uh to get in
and out of their homes um safely and with in a reasonable amount of time. And so we've been working on a plan. Um, and with that being said, I will invite Mary to come up and let everybody know what we've been working on.
Good evening, Madame Council. Madame Mayor, Madame Vice Mayor, council, staff, and residents. I'm Mary McNicholas, your government relations um representative. We have Mel Pollock with
um senior project engineer. He's basically the coordinator for this FDOT CSX closure. We have Mr. Pat Kennedy right next to him. We have David Ricks, the Palm Beach County engineer. We have Trish Bar, your traffic engineer
with Simmons and White is on Zoom. We have PBSOs's Lieutenant Darla Sour with us and also Palm Beach County Fire Rescue's Chief Amanda Vimero on Zoom. Also with Battalion Chief Karen Ferguson is in the
back. She's here as well. We have our public works director Richard Galant and our superintendent Craig Lowour. also our town leader who is also our town manager Francine Ramalia who has been diligently working
on this for over two weeks of this project since we were first notified. We have been working on solutions, not dwelling on notification times, not dwelling on the
horrific situation or if you will, it's just going to be a a generally bad situation that we're going to have to deal with. And we're going to try to do the best that we can, which is why your mayor, Anita Kaine, requested through Francine that the town of Locks Aache
Grove is going to be ahead of this project. stay ahead of this project, get out in front of this project. This resulted in a project, a plan worked on by our entire team with modifications
when they were given and updates given by both Palm Beach County FDOTCXS CSX. In just one week's time frame, your town manager and your team came up with the only first written plan of exactly
what we would do for maintenance of traffics traffic otherwise known as. This was distributed to both Palm Beach County and FTOC CSX which we then also gave to all our surrounding communities.
At this time, I want to especially thank Burgess Hansen with ITA, the executive director, who successfully actually pulled in all of the Western communities. Um along with David Ricks, this plan is designed to provide the
best and safest procedures for our town residents, businesses, and visitors with specific emphasis on the residents north south access. That's a mouthful. Since the
detour has or an alternate detour has included Okachobee, once the actual date is given, we'll complete the communications plan and push out as much information, but Palm Beach County and Palm Beach County Public Affairs along
with FDOT is giving us this information. They've already worked out things. We just need an actual date. Um the order that we're going to have as far as the updates, Excuse me. Can you just give the projected date or how much lead time we're going to have? Can you just mention that uh we will have at least
three weeks notice. At least three weeks notice. So regardless of when we were given any time frames, it really is irrelevant at this point. We've been working diligently and have a plan and have been working and having calls all the time with everyone. They have been
incredible as far as feeding us information. There's some there are some details that we have to work out. Um I believe the north north south access is something that has been made very very much a priority. Um and that came
directly from everyone that I've spoken to on this and that's exactly what both of all these gentlemen are help going to help us with as well as PBSO. So they're going to be rereading and discussing our plan. So, we'll be doing this diligently
every day until the time frame comes up with um the order that we're going to do this tonight is we're going to have Mel Pollock and andor Patrick um if you'd like to come up Pat Kennedy and then we'll have Dave Ricks and he can kind of cross because some of their information
does cross. Um, we also have he will get the flicker over there because he has some things to show, excuse me, to show online, but we also have maps, detour maps that I want everybody in the audience to have because a lot of times
it's very difficult to see these on these screens, at least in this audience. Um, next we'll have Trish Bar who will specifically detail the DOT plan. I'm sorry, the plan that we've talked about. And then lastly, we'll
have our public safety PBSO and um Palm Beach County Fire Rescue followed by John Carter in Vice Mayor um Baxter's office. Then we'll have a brief question and answer if you'd like. Yeah. Can I have a motion to receive I'm
sorry. So moved. Second. All in favor? All right. We weren't going to say no with this. We just have to do the formality part. So, thank you. Good evening. Good evening. Make sure this is good here. Uh,
mayor, vice mayor, council. My name is Mel Pollock. I'm with the Cordino Group and I'm the senior project engineer on the FDOT project. Um, given this opportunity, I know that we're focused on the closure, but you know, realizing that this presentation we would would be accessible in the future, I at least
wanted to provide some general details about, you know, what we're doing out on Beine. I know that uh this community probably is more uh concerned with receiving that traffic. But just in case uh you do navigate that that way, I just wanted to give a brief explanation of of
what we're doing out there. So basically uh our project runs from Military Trail Blue Haron uh intersections uh by the VA on the east side to the northwest uh just past North Lake Boulevard. Currently Beline Highway is a
four-lane rural facility and by rural I mean um the rainwater more or less sheet flows and is collected and a swale system and then eventually to the outfalls. Uh what we're going to do with this and you can see on the picture on the right uh this is a recent drone uh
shot. We are actually uh constructing six lanes um and it's it will be a closed urban section. So it'll have curbon gutter. All that rain water will be collected um and then piped to our outfall locations and our ponds uh on
the project. So you can kind of see here uh in this picture on the left side we're bound by the CSX rightway. you see the rail uh running down the left side of the picture. So, most of our improvements are actually going to be to the other side of of the road. Um, and
you can see in the picture here, uh, two white lines. The outside line is actually a wall that we're constructing, uh, along with drainage, and then the inside line here is actually our curb and gutter. So, you can see how how much wider this footprint of roadway will be when we're done.
uh part of the scope of the project because we are doing a widening and um actually raising the profile of the roadway uh we are replacing the bridge that uh runs over Beline Highway on Florida's turnpike. Currently that's a four-lane facility with this project. We
are actually constructing it for the ultimate uh configuration of the turnpike. So we are constructing a eight lane uh facility with with both a excel lane and a del lane for the jog road uh beline exit from the turnpike. So
actually that uh bridge will be 10 lanes when we're done. So it's it's a pretty big uh element of the project. We're incorporating both our six lanes and additional capacity for CSX in the future. Uh this is a view of uh North Lake Boulevard approaching
uh the intersection with Beline and the CSX Railroad. So this is uh looking towards the east. Uh if you're familiar with this area, we're already um working on the median in this area. You can see the dump trucks. Uh since this picture in early June, we've already paved this
area in preparation for upcoming work. So more or less what we have to do with these facilities to maintain traffic is shift traffic uh to create work zones. So the next shift for us will be shifting traffic to the median and then we'll be again working on our drainage
and improvements on the outside. Uh with that we do have some signalization work. I'll get to the next slide to show exactly what we have to do there. But during the coordination with CSX that's when they came to us and said we have issues with this rail crossing.
we've had issues for a number of years. Um we are going to be in there working with you on the signalization. We need to do a full replacement of this crossing. So that began the conversation and the the uh coordination effort over the last month.
Uh this is a closer view of that crossing. And one of the things that we have to do to shift traffic towards the median with the eastbound traffic is remove this signal trust that goes over the gantry that goes over the existing lanes. So that will be removed and we'll
have temporary signalization in place in coordination with CSX. That work will be done while they're doing the rail replacement. So, if there is a silver lining, we're going to be able to get a lot of work done at the same time concurrently so that when we come out of their full rail replacement, we'll be in
our next phase of traffic. And these are some of the details. Um, and appreciate having this opportunity and and also you guys have done a great job of disseminating this information. This will be a full closure of East and
West North Lake. Uh CSX is pretty adamant that this will be an eight-day closure. You know, we've talked a lot about can it be done um quicker? How can it be done more efficiently? They are going to be working day and night at the intersection throughout this process. They're very confident. Thank you for
that concession. We appreciate that. Yes. And they're, you know, they're very confident in this 8-day schedule. They've built in all their activities. What they have to do is more or less uh completely um demo this area. So they're going to remove the panels for the roadway traffic. They're going to remove
the rail ballast and start that process over. So when they begin, there will not be a crossing at this location. They build it back and then they have to load uh that crossing with train traffic and make the adjustments to the rail line uh before that then they can put in the
panels for vehicular traffic. Uh right now um one of the concessions and I'll go back. You can see the ramp here in the broader view. This is the the ramp from south east beline to uh north uh north lake or excuse me
westbound north lake. Uh the ramp is going to be used uh during the closure period for emergency access. So that was one of the concessions with CSX that we're going to be able to maintain that ramp two-way u uh traffic for emergency access. it'll be under the control of law enforcement uh during that period
and it'll be accessible for emergency services 247. So that was a big first step in and in and that the coordination with CSX. So with emergency access in place uh really right now we're waiting for the date you know the commitment is that
we're providing three weeks notification to the public uh and the commitment from CSX is that we'll have our next update uh by July 3rd. So, uh the the uh closure will begin uh on a Friday evening to kind of at least get uh that
weekend that first weekend in place. Um so, right now we're targeting that fourth Friday in July. I don't even want to put the date on here because then it gets you know then it gets put out what three times now I think it's and you know part of that coordination with CSX
is you guys better be ready, right? and and so but I think it's important you that you mention that that while we don't have a firm commitment that they are committed to doing it before school opens. So while the window is three weeks away, it's it's anywhere between 3 weeks away and before school. That's correct. And and we're starting to kind
of get towards that window and and we're very cognizant of that and we've had those discussions with CSX. It's not just the first day of school, it's the week before, you know, running the the new bus routes, parents are back with their kids, back to school shopping, meet the teacher, all those activities
create, you know, additional traffic. So, you know, the this fourth Friday is really a kind of um what we're really pushing for and uh we hope to get that confirmation in the next few days. July 3 due to the uh the rail traffic. I mean
the they're going to be in suspension for the construction period. Yes, ma'am. For the uh initial installation, there won't be any u uh rail traffic because the rail won't be in place, but uh they will have a period after they do the reinstall that they will be able to uh
initiate uh rail traffic uh on the new rail with with uh more or less a temporary, you know, um configuration. And actually that rail traffic is what helps consolidate that new construction. Then they can make adjustments based on
uh how much uh that area gets compacted. So the initial u uh first day there will be no track and then after that there will be track and they'll be running trains to consolidate that line. Uh obviously the ultimate goal is to have uh a very smooth crossing both for
vehicular traffic and the train so that this doesn't really um uh develop for uh you know hopefully the next few decades that we have a really good crossing there. So they want to do it right. Maximum amount of time would be one day you're saying and then they
do a slow travel across here. That's correct with both Amtrak and freight trains. And then based on those crossings and adjustments, they they continue to uh more or less um
u kind of smooth out that crossing and then they they start the process of building back the vehicular crossing. It almost lets you know that this is, you know, something that uh you should have had a an alternate solution
instead of just one one track, right? And and obviously, you know, you know, it's significant based on just the network of roads there uh as well. um for the you know for the local community and and obviously in the future if they do this right now you know the thought
is in the next 10 15 20 years the infrastructure around this particular crossing will be a little bit more redundant if they actually have to do work in the future you know for example we have several other crossings on our project we have a crossing at Hill and a crossing at Jog and there's work at both
of those locations but when you shut down that and the detour is you know five minutes it's a little bit uh a little bit easier to digest for sure. Does anybody else have any questions before we move on to the next person? Is there going to be two tracks there or just a single track when it's done? For
for us, for right now, it'll be still a single track. No, but but for our bridge, you know, you know, we're designing it and constructing it for future use for the turnpike as well as future uh use for CSX. So, it's kind of a all-in-one shot really uh at at the
bridge location to provide um you know the kind of the the least amount of impact in the future. Right. So, we're we're building everything now for future use. Whenever that happens, whenever CSX decides to put another train track, I I really don't have that information, but it's nothing involved with our say for
now one that tells me in five years they might put a second one and we'll be right back closed down again for a second track. And you know, I don't really have that information in regards to their plan, but I do know, you know, obviously we're we're building the infrastructure to accommodate that to lessen that impact in the future. Paul,
anything Lisa? Okay. Thank you so much. Yes, ma'am. And this map is what was distributed and these are really the two primary routes and then some of the uh the dotted lines are obviously the the concern is uh you know, one with Okachobee and then Orange. Um, so you
know, we're coordinating that with Palm Beach County traffic, uh, with PBSO, uh, to both, uh, design that detour plan and then once we have the word and get going with it to to install all the necessary
signage on those routes, um, Palm Beach County traffic is installing modems on the on the signals that aren't connected with their system so that they will be able to monitor and adjust as needed during that closure period. But uh you know obviously the the two routes and
solid lines between Seminal Pratt and then coming down Coconut 60th to State Road 7 uh those are the two routes that that have been identified um that have uh the best opportunities to get the you know most vehicles uh through those corridors. So you know and even on
southern and Okachobee to the east Palm Beach County traffic will be monitoring those signals to uh to improve that throughput as well. Um and this is just generally some of the coordination that is ongoing. Uh we're working with the municipalities
with Palm Beach County with CSX traffic engineers uh to develop this plan. The plan will include u up to 35 to 40 we've counted portable changeable message signs at each of the those um key intersections to provide notification um
to people who are driving through those areas. Uh we'll be messaging on 95 and the turnpike. Uh we'll be uh continuing this coordination and getting that message out once we have that date confirmed uh through EV uh available resource.
And that's uh just a QR code for the project. Um you know it will be in the presentation materials but that that QR code takes you directly to the project website where we do um lane closure notifications on a weekly basis. Uh project photos. There's a presentation
on our ultimate uh intersection details at North Lake. So, I just wanted to plug that as well for the uh uh good evening, mayor, uh mayor, vice mayor, and members of council. I thank you for the opportunity. I'm David Ricks, the county engineer, director
engineering public works. Uh just like I said earlier, this is going to be a challenge in terms of the traffic uh monitoring. Uh just like Mel indicated, you know, we'll have connectivity of all the signals throughout this whole area. Uh and then we had a conference call uh
that had suggested uh and we looked at the tactical details and one of the things that PBSO is really going to be have a very robust uh engagement throughout this whole corridor. some of the key signals especially through the acreage they'll actually have we call
these little uh you call flickers that actually can change the signal timing and allow movement to keep to keep moving and then conversation came up about on Toby the A through DF uh access
north and south uh I know the the plan that Trisha put together and so what in the conversation we had this afternoon PBSO is going to have active monitoring along those corridors. I think Katrish recommended three key roads uh that they will take a look at and as if the
traffic backs up in terms of getting access north and south, they'll provide gaps in the route uh to do that. But they also have drones uh throughout this whole area uh to have on-site surveillance and make adjustments as needed. So, this is going to be all hands- on deck once we get a date and
and get it going. Uh but just the other piece on the communication plan uh we're looking to have mailers to all the residents in this area including Royal Palm about almost about 20,000 houses I think 23,000
no 50,000 yeah 50,000 50,000 uh once a date gets confirmed uh and so uh but so that's that's the plan. Did you have questions Lisa? I see you jotting notes. Did you Is that a question or interesting thing? Okay,
Paul, you have a question. So, what I'm hearing is is Palm Beach County sent out mailers to 50,000 houses. They haven't done it yet. Ascending the ing in the future. They're sending once a date gets confirmed. Once the date gets confirmed. Yes.
There I think there's 50,000 houses in Royal Palm, isn't there? I mean, no. I mean, where does that where does that I guess my idea is where does that encompass? It's Royal Palm, the acreage, and Los Grows. Okay. Okay. The incorporated cities, they have their own network. So, these are folks that really
um that's what we're looking at for the mailers. So, I I was just concerned, are we responsible for the mailers or Palm Beach County? No, Palm Beach County. All right. Um also, when you're talking about the flickers, uh PBSO going to have flickers for 162nd and for Royal Palm Elementary. Yes. Okay. All right.
That was I was just a concern when we're looking at all this and being able to Yeah, we coordinated uh the signals north of Okoba which is Royal Palm, city of Royal Palm. We coordinated them on the signal timing and so uh if if the PBS will need to do clickers on those,
they will do that also. All right. So they're right now they're they're working on updating their call management plan. We talked about this this afternoon. They're having another meeting tomorrow to kind of fine-tune that and hopefully in a few days we'll have the date and then it becomes more
active plan. So in in lie of of retasking the signals, we're just going to it's going to be a boots on the ground type of scenario. Well, the signals are already going to be retasked. Okay. But but the deputies will have flickers just to just in case. Just in case. Peak times. uh and then
they'll have drones uh to survey the area to see this and we'll have cameras on those most of key signals to act active traffic management. So our challenge is that some of those key areas in terms of the the signals are at capacity in terms of the traffic once
you get to a certain capacity just not much you can do from a single timing standpoint unless someone's there you with the clicker saying you this one direction you keep moving and so that's where the teamwork uh comes involved. though I didn't take take your thank yous
to have to be at like maybe every other letter. Yep. Actually, stop traffic. I was just wanted to um come up and um and we'll work in tan Mr. Ricks. He's stolen all my thunder. So, yes, we we do have devices. They're
called pickles, actually. Um they will be deployed throughout the county. Um the traffic commander has is working very feverishly to establish a um a it's a very good uh comprehensive plan. We're going to be pulling resources from throughout the agency. All of our
community service aids as well as all of our motor units will be retasked and they will be out here for the duration. They will be you'll see them obviously heavier during those rush hours in the morning. Um in the evening you may see um a different plan but we will be
having resources to uh in in place to cover all of this. Um it's a very very robust plan with a lot of resources but it is fluid as Mr. Rick said and it is collaborative. So we are working with all of our um law enforcement partners with FHP and also with Gardens and
obviously with all of these folks as well and many of you have all been on the same meetings that we have have been as well. Um, we are listening to all of our partners out here. We've listened to the managers. We do know what your concerns are and those um those concerns
are being addressed actively. Um, like I said, it's a it's a fluid plan. So, we are working through it as as the plan develops. We're finding um different areas that might need covered and and something else comes up. So, we're readjusting. And as he said, Mr. Rick said, we will have our drones up. It
will be fluid. So if they see that something's just not working, we're going to be we're going to have real time that real time correction cor corrective actions that we can address it and um move along and keep that flow going. So um we're pretty confident that we'll make this as smooth as we possibly
can. Are there going to be some hiccups? Sure, there are. Are there going to be some congestion? Yes, there are. Um, the one main thing that I do ask is that the all the all the citizens do obey the road the laws of the the roadways, especially here on Okachobee, you all
know, and I'm sure you've seen it a thousand times, where people like to pull off because they just can't wait while that person's making that turn, left-hand turn. Um, those are horrible out here, and people will drive along the shoulders trying to get around. The shoulders aren't meant for that out
here. So, um, and I know you've heard it a thousand times, but pack your patience. Understand that there's going to be delays. Is it going to be seamless? No, there are going to be delays. So, um, you know, as we said, we'll have as as much resources out here as we possibly can. Um, I can't give you
any specifics because it is fluid. Um, different concerns are being presented all the time. So, and I'm sorry, did you want to add to that? No, no, good. What what questions can I answer that you may have for like the law enforcement side? Yes, sir. No, that's
good for Mr. Ricks. No, none for law enforcement. Nope. Okay. Thanks, LT. Yes, sir. Mr. Min, any projected traffic count increases? We talking 200%, 300%. I'll have to get the numbers. Uh I have to get the numbers because because we'll you know we the
part of this plan that we'll is you use your Google to uh the direction where you want to go and we'll show on Google basically the main the main detour route. Now the alternate route are people who are know who are local. So we'll have to uh we'll we'll get some
projection but we'll see real time how how people react. uh but but but people are using you know the electronic means will will take the big detour routes but the locals say I know a different route and want to try to use these alter routes so well it's just like she said
it'll be fluid so okay I didn't hear anywhere about them installing durbs along Oktopia to help out think he wants I was kidding I'm she's trying to slide that in there getting on record But I guess it didn't work. That
was nice. I do like the idea of using it for traffic counts. We could use some. So, we did look into a lot of different angles this way. Trust me, we have been way ahead of the curve in discussions with people that are a lot smarter than I am. It was very much discouraged. We
don't want to waste any money of yours. We don't want to do anything that's going to be an anomaly and not be able to be used, you know, and shown as an outlier. So, that's why we decided against it. Thank you all for your input that way. Um, we have Trish Bar on Zoom. Trish, are you there with us? I'm here.
Could you just briefly go over our email to Mel Pollock and what our written plan is as far as the seven steps and things and then followed by Chief Vimero, please. Yes. Um, mayor, vice mayor, and council. Uh, thank you. I'm Trisha Bar, a
professional engineer with Simmons and White. Um, Francine and Mary drew me in really quickly as soon as they found out about this. Uh, I'm local. I live in the area. I drive your roads all the time. And with a lot of input from community
and council members, um, we worked on a plan to send uh, the DOT has been very responsive and received that, understood that they're getting local input on what you all feel is impacting your community and how it will be impact. And I think
the biggest concern we felt was that particularly local people who don't use need to use a Google maps ever are going to try to cut through Okchobee that that's going to be um and we've seen the same concern for Indian Trails that
people who know the area are going to try to use local roads. Uh, one of the the first item that we brought up in our plan was BMS boards um that reminded people that the speed limit is strictly enforced. You guys have the speed limit
on Okachobee Boulevard because of concerns about gaps getting across Okachobee Boulevard and getting on to Okachobee Boulevard from your your local streets particularly. Uh the second item that we brought up was uh temporary
traffic control um otherwise known as MOOT uh to create gaps. So that would be the potential to have flaggers at an intersection, police control at an intersection or temporary signalization, some type of form. Um, obviously again,
as they've noted, this is fluid, but everybody at the county, at the DOT, and the police, Palm Beach Sheriff's Office have been listening and understand that um, this is a concern, particularly for this part of Okchobee Boulevard to have
gaps to get out that you guys live that on a daily basis. Um, and also that we have bigger trucks, agricultural trucks, tractor trailers, horse trailers that need more time, dump trucks that need more time to get onto the road that meet
that gap. Um, another suggestion that we'veed is internal road close signs to try to keep people from trying to make shortcuts down lettered roads that aren't part of the plan. um and unintentionally gumming up roads that have been that they're going to
designate extra time to the evac, you know, to the main plan. So, Southern Boulevard is going to take more time on their main line and take it away from the side streets and somebody's be like, "Oh, I'm going to slip down B road, but they've taken more time for this detour
to given it to the main line." and then you'll end up if people try to sneak through these local roads, they'll get backed up on the side street trying to slip onto that. So, we've brought that up also as a request. Um, I heard
discussion earlier about uh, you know, people slipping around on Okchobee Boulevard and using the shoulders. We are concerned and we had expressed that in our letter in the plan of some type of form of channelizing devices at intersections if we find that people are
abusing that shoulder and running around it. Also brought up with PBSO so they're aware of it. We're hoping maybe that having police officers in the area might deter people from doing that little sneak as well because it only hurt obviously it only hurts the road
structure for people to do that. It's not intended for people to drive off it and on it. Um we a we talked just today um with the PBSO about monitoring of the detour routes and they are aware of these lettered roads that are
prioritized and um also that they're they're going to be doing drone coverage because that was our big question. there. The county has cameras at the their signalized intersections and we're concerned that there's no cameras because you don't have any traffic signals. So, that was a concern. They've
heard our concerns and have noted them and they're they're forming their plan. So, you know, this is part of the iterative process of getting that information to them. We asked about timing at the signals at Royal Palm Beach Elementary and Lock Hatche Groves Elementary to potentially pro provide
some gaps as well. Um I think that's up to the traffic operations experts at Palm Beach County traffic um whether that will be helpful but we have asked about it and we've also asked that they may try to prioritize and they are
getting people who are using Google Maps and to tell the community to please use those main lines and not sneak around because they are prioritizing those timings and it will only be to the detriment for people to try to create their own detour um with local knowledge
in this case. And with that, those are the things that we presented. Uh we feel like people have been listening, but again, we think you should speak up and remind, you know, every voice that says, "Yes, this is hard for me on Okchobee," I think is important.
Any questions, Patricia? Chief Amro, are you on? Good evening. Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me? Hello. Yes, we can hear you, but we can't see you. No, I know. I'm in Missouri.
I can put the camera on. However, I'm not in uniform, so I apologize, but um I'm thankful that I could zoom in here. Technology is wonderful. Um I just want to echo what Lieutenant Sour said. This is going to be a very fluid situation. Although we are all preparing the best
that we can, it is going to be very fluid. Um the positive thing with Palm Beach County Fire Rescue is that we are resourcerich and so we have the ability to adapt to whatever the situation may be. Um we are looking at upstaffing uh units if we need to or andor putting
additional units into service for the time being um if that is what we need to do. Um we are also uh in the middle of a project for traffic preeemption for the traffic lights um which would change the traffic signal to let fire rescue through or emergency vehicles through.
And um our assistant chief Woodside has been in um talks with the vendor to see if it's a possibility if we could um elevate the area out of the western communities to maybe get that done before um you know this project goes
into place. But that that's quite a push. Um but we you know like I said you know we have the ability to adapt and overcome and we are resource rich and there is not much that fire rescue over the years um has not been able to rise to the occasion. So um but again it is
very fluid and um once it it really gets here and we see really how congested it is um that's when we will have to adapt um and maybe put in some other plans into place. Um I I I do ask and remind the residents um just like the mayor
said, we have no choice here. Um this is happening. Uh there's it we have no choice. So um as long as we go in with the right mindset, we're going to be patient with our neighbors. We're going to be kind to one another. Everybody's stuck in the same traffic that you're stuck in. and um try not to cut quarters
and try not to um you know, you know, avoid because potentially you're going to cause an accident and create another um terrible scenario. So, just just be patient and um try to be kind to one another during this time. Does anybody
have any questions for me? Well, I I would just like you one of the things that came up frequently in the IT meeting was people's concern that were maybe pregnant and worried about getting to the hospital and things like that. Can you just briefly touch on I know they talked briefly about the emergency lane, but how you feel you have full
access to the area to to address the health and safety issues of our citizens. Yes, it it definitely is a concern and there's a there's listen, there's a myriad of of emergencies that could happen, but um we have delivered babies before. We've delivered babies at
people's homes. We've done them in the back of rescue trucks and um so whatever the situation may be um if if patients if we need to utilize the traumah hawk to um land the traumah hawk and get a critical patient out faster because of traffic, we we have that ability to do that as well.
Thank you. Sure. Anybody else? No. Thank you so much on holiday for being with us. Thank you. Thank you. Happy 4th of July, everybody. Thank you, John. Thank you. Uh good afternoon,
Madame Mayor, Council, and Staff. John Carter, chief of staff to Vice Mayor Sarah Baxter. Uh she apologized she couldn't make it back from her meeting in time to be here, so she sent her best. Um uh so, you know, you Yeah. Yeah, but you
take it how you want to see it. Okay, I'll give my update and then you can make your determination. So, just want to touch on some of the things that um you know, you asked us today to back you and and vice mayor, you know, gives her full support to Lock Statue Groves and their requests. You know, you can see we have incredible fire, we have incredible
PBSO, we've asked them to send every resource they can to this area. This has been a major collaboration between all of the western municipalities as as well as the county staff and and FD do and Mel's been doing a great job uh communicating from the top and uh working with everyone. So, they are
taking your requests into consideration. They are looking into it. We're taking this very seriously. Um as far as the communication plan on behalf of the county, we will be sending out 53,531 every door direct mailers to the following zip codes. 33411 representing
Royal Palm Beach will receive 30,894 uh deliveries. Uh 33412 the acreage will have 7,861 deliveries. And then 33470 Greater Locks Hatch representing West Lake Iviser Offspray Isle Carlton Oaks parts of West
Palm Beach and Palm Beach Gardens will be receiving 14,776 mailing. So we are um going to have it in English and Spanish when it goes out. Um we are working on those pro press releases to include the updates from FO
um CSX. Uh the P county web page PBC gov homepage banner will be projected with updates for all residents um wanting to seek that information. We're going to have social media blasts and graphics. We're working in collaboration with engineering palm emergency management the school board. Our connect PVC app is
going to be available for notifications working with the town crier and the Palm Beach Post. Um uh we've also partnered with some of our uh county departments and initiatives. So uh the tourist development council part of their love the Palm Beach initiatives will be offering special discounted station
routes to residents that uh would like to uh stay local but avoid void the area for for the time being. Um so by visiting the palm beaches.com/lopppbc you can view special rates um on hotels for residents and our council is
actively working with hotelers to expand those offers. And just a second I know that was really important because one of the things that came up were like emergency room nurses and people like that who have just 30 or 45 minutes from when they're called to actually be in the operating room. So it might be something that's beneficial for them
during that time those discounts. So, thank you for Yes, absolutely. So, I'm I'm going to leave this with you so you can file it in your minutes and have this information as well, but they'll be emailing uh 90,000 local residents. They're going to be strategically placing billboards around the affected area and a paid social media campaign
targeting local residents. So, this is something we're going to want to get out to everybody and encourage all local hotels to, you know, be good neighbors and offer rates to to the especially the the medical I think was our our biggest priority was finding ways to address that. So, um the vice mayor's with you. Um, yes, Mr. Madam Mayor. Yes. How are
you going to keep on top of the uh mail delivery? There's uh been publicity that uh some areas in the 33470 haven't received mail for several months. So, I believe you're referring to the Ardan community uh the newly
developed that is a federal issue and we have been working with Congresswoman Sheila McCormack uh Sherfus on on that um that issue. Um, the Ardan thankfully is not directly affected, although Southern Boulevard will be receiving increased traffic. Their their primary
exit is onto Southern Boulevard. So, I do not believe they're in our affected area as far as notifying of the detour routes. Okay. Because I know in Lockachi Groves itself, there are sometimes when you don't get mail for a day or two, you
know, and uh sometimes you don't get it at all. Uh, so I I'd love to hear more about those concerns. If there's a way we can partner and discover like where that's happening to see if we can help partner with with the federal entities to address that, I'd love to help you with that. But thankfully, you know, we
are getting these ready to go out the second we get that 3-day notice from CSX. So, we are going to have time to to let the residents know. And I think that's the one thing that's most important is just making sure everyone has the same information, the correct information, um, and in a timely manner. So, we're we're doing everything we can.
All right. I would I would suggest that um you know to uh investigate it later. I mean maybe it's not something that you can do now. Um but uh the distribution uh for our areas is no longer the
Southern Boulevard location. We we have to go up to um uh where the Kmart used to be but um the main post office. Okay. I'll make a note of that. Um, and then I'll send that to our public affairs team so they can kind of address
those strategies. I appreciate you letting me know that. This isn't necessarily a question for you, but another thing that came up at the IT meeting that I that I thought was maybe a good idea and it would be something that we would consider as a council is maybe suspending trash pickup
and not have those trucks on our roads during the first part of the week at least. I mean, maybe have maybe cut it down to just one day pickup for for everybody at the end of the week. I I don't know what what would that be the Wednesday and the Thursday and not have it Monday and Tuesday knowing that we're
going to be getting through this. So, I don't know how everybody else feels about that, but I thought it was it was actually came from a citizen during their meeting and I thought it was a really good idea. Um, so I don't know how everybody else feels about that, but or maybe pick up at night. Yeah. I don't know. Whatever. Whatever could be worked
out with Coastal. I don't know. Yeah, I think we can do something. Yeah, but I mean I I I think for one week everybody could do with one one pickup and and if we moved it to the second days of the week, hopefully it'll be done or towards done. So they start on a
Friday and then they wait till the following Friday and just Friday and Saturday or Friday and Saturday pick up. We could be getting to the end of this thing by then. So that's something that maybe we can look into doing. I will say this, we we did inquire with the solid waste authority. Um and one of the things that was advised was exploring
just like maybe avoiding during the peak time um instead of instead of you know potentially really cuz if if you know we don't know if we're going to get a storm or something like that and to have you know bulk pickup or everything pile up for a week you know we could be running um some additional risk. So we're just there's a lot of logistics that
everyone's factoring in because we still don't know when we you know we believe uh July 25th and we want it to be for eight days but we just we don't know until we know. Right. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else have any questions or comments? Thank you. That's it. Okay. Any public
comment on that? No, mayor. Okay. Great. Thank you all so much for being here with us tonight. Thank you. But Elizabeth, you have anything you want to say? Thank you for having. Appreciate it. Thank you. I do have a general I do have a general comment. Thank you everyone.
Mel, thank you very much. So, you know, of course, I I didn't I didn't hear about this until I think about a week after the county was notified, whatever, and then somebody contacted me and said, "What's going on with this?" And I got to tell you, I I waited till Monday because I'm really good about, you know,
honoring people's personal time. So, I waited till Monday and I emailed Francine and then about five minutes after, 10 minutes after, I think, don't quote me, I got an onslaught of every email that was sent back and forth. And I can tell you that our staff and the
Slugot team have been working on this with the county and with FDOT and with with, you know, you know, on this and and this communication piece and trying to make sure that we, you know, they they hit the ground running. So lest anyone think that that Lock Little Lock
Hatche Groves wasn't on top of this, um, we were. And we weren't we weren't, no offense to anybody, we weren't part of the first group to be notified from what I understand. Um, you know, but you know, and I got I ran into Sarah and John, you know, Mrs. Baxter and John, you know, a couple days later and they
they gave me the same speech and gave me told me everything was, you know, we're on top of it, whatever. And I I you know, hats off to everybody. Thank you for, you know, coming coming through. Um, and uh I I think we're it's going to be tough, but I think we're going to be in a good spot. I really do. Patience is a
virtue. That's all I remember. Excuse me. If you have a gray pickup truck, your car is sounding. Okay. Thank you all for being here and for working in partnership with us. We certainly do appreciate it. Okay. We're on we're on to item number two.
Mr. Book is on. I know he is. We're on to item number two. We have Thank you. So everything is is signed and or vetoed at this point. So we have on uh again on Zoom Ron Book and Ra
um to give us an update. Madame Mayor, members of the council uh and Madame Manager, good to see you. I am uh nothing but apologetic over the veto. I don't really have a very good
explanation for you at this point. Um, we will get a debrief with the governor's team. Um, we know that the governor was focused on many cities that
are not necessarily aligned with some of his policies and positions. I don't believe that applies to Lockahhatche Groves.
Um, number one. Number two, one of the stated things that, and I spoke extensively with the governor's budget director over the last week, I spent a lot of time with the governor's chief of
staff both in person and over the phone. Um, one of the things that they were trying to do was number one, make sure that they were signing off on projects that were shovel ready and b that were
continuation projects from prior cycles. you are not only shovel ready, but you were a project that had been funded in the two prior cycles and had a 50% match. Uh we did not have any indication
until the veto list published late yesterday afternoon that there was an issue. And I repeat, um, I was talking to the governor's folks at the highest levels, including the governor,
on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Um, they finalized the list largely by 10:00, 11:00 Saturday night. Um, and I repeat, um, all indications
were that the project was fine. So, I just don't have any more of an explanation. All of the governor's senior staff together with the governor were at Alligator Alcatraz for a good part of the day today and were not
accessible. Uh, all bills, by the way, Madame Mayor, have not been signed off on yet. The governor vetoed three bills today, signed five bills today, and he has additional bills to act on in the next couple of days as well before time
completely expires on the bills that have been delivered to him. Um, I'm happy to answer questions. Um, I will say to you that one of the issues we didn't talk about when we were last
together in person because it was not part of what they had done up until now up until then because it was embodied in the conference report in an implementing bill and that's the Doge uh related to
local governments And I would simply suggest to you that it's retroactive um to 2024. Office of Planning and Budgeting is going to be using subpoenas potentially.
They're going to dig into policies, procedures, and expenditures uh to determine whether or not it lines up with the things that they believe from a Doge standpoint are fair play. Uh, I should also mention that while Mr.
Pitman is not on the Zoom with us today, Sam Stampelt here from his firm is on with us as well. Miss Brown is on with us as well from my firm. And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.
We're still not Ron, we're we're still talking to the Department of Commerce, correct? about the 5-year extension on the world designation and about some possible projects that we have in with them which there are a number and I understand that they've also renewed the
conversation with you about coming and visiting and and and seeing what's going I know they were tied up with all the doge stuff but they're kind of done through that now right they are they madame mayor they are and I would suggest to you that we are clearly in play on the five-year extension do you
want to add anything to I expect uh to hear from them with a confirmed date sometime in the next two weeks. Okay. Thank you. But we don't have if there's money there that we might get. We are there will be mayor. There will
be opportunities and RA has spent some time over the last couple of weeks talking to Francine about a new grant writer for you uh to help with some of that. We are confident that we will opportunities
for money. Mayor, council members, madame manager, um I I must tell you that every now and then over 50 plus years in the business. I've I I've very rarely been caught
flatfooted. I wasn't flatfooted here. We were focused on your on your item. Um, I just really wish I had a better explanation than what I've got, which is really not much at this point until we talked to staff. Um, I repeat, there
were no indications there was a problem with your funding of your water project. Sam, do you want to add anything? No, I think that's right. And Ron, I think you alluded to it when we met last time simply that this was a big year for
vetos. I think the governor ended up vetoing about 1.2 billion in in total funding. So, um it was a tough year, but again, we we hadn't heard anything when we had spoken to the governor's office with any concerns either. Anybody have any questions for Ron? Ra,
did we get an update on Senate Senate Bill 180? It passed. Yes, it does. Did we get any clarification on uh the way I read it and several people I've talked to, it's only for properties affected by
those storms versus a townwide. Ronald, go ahead, please. Well, the way it is written, and let me pull it up so I can get it exactly right. Uh the way it's written is that if there's an emergency declaration uh for one year after a hurricane makes
landfall, any county under a federal disaster declaration or municipality within that county located wholly or partly within a 100 miles of the hurricane's track is prohibited from um construction or redevelopment. Um
enacting more restrictive or burdensome regulation on procedures related to land development. Um and additionally a retroactive uh prohibitions um based on the tracks of Debbie, Helen, and Milton hurricanes.
The ban on new moratoriums and stricter regulations applies now until October 20 October 1st, 2027 and are retroactive to August 1st, 2024. So I urge you all to take a look at this. Um have your attorney take a look at this. Um
it's quite extensive. Look, the bottom line is with the new emergency management bill, if we if we've got a storm and you are considering uh Madame Manager, members of the council, if you're considering enacting
things to make it more difficult for folks to pull permits and to do things to rebuild, I would suggest you put me on speed dial and review those things with me before you do them. And that includes inspection and uh
building permit fees. I would said I would urge our engagement not looking for more work. It cost you no more money. You really want to think twice before you do things uh to avoid aggravation from what they've done here.
Folks, it's a continued assault on local government. It's a continued incursion, if you will, on home rule powers. Um, I'm hopeful that that in in the coming years, more local
government officials, our former local government officials have become legislators and remember where they came from. So, Ronnie, you said within a 100 miles of the hurricane track, correct? Right.
That's pretty much the whole thing. Not the cone, but the track itself. The track itself. So, this from the center. Yeah. The whole state. A lot of the state, right? It's intended
to expand, not contract. And and keep in mind, the governor makes the declarations on uh emergencies. So, um it's very much controllable. Ra. Yes. Just as a point of
clarification, did I hear you say that we cannot increase fees? Right. Right. That's part of it. Um, is it just building fees though? It's building impact. It's any fee related to development.
Okay. Thank you. I repeat, I repeat, if if we get ourselves into a situation where we feel we need to make adjustments and enactments, please come back to me. Please let me give you an
opinion and it will be an opinion based on input from the Division of Emergency Management. It will be an opinion based on what I believe the governor's office is or isn't looking at based on advice and counsel from Stephanie, the general
counsel at FDM. Okay, Ra, I need to schedule a call with you and our staff. Um, we had some changes proposed, so thank you. Remember, they're safe right now because you don't have a storm.
So if you've got stuff, go ahead and do it now. But it go it's retroactive to what we had last year. So that doesn't really work. Confused portions of it are we can mad
manager, we can talk about this at your comm tomorrow. I'll go through it with you. Yes, Ron, if you need me to call you, let me know. Thank you. I will and find out about zoning in progress if we can do something with that. And Lisa has a question. Yeah. Can um
can you expand on anything that changed in the live local also? I know there was things in the works on that. There are I think we have most of that contained within your end of legislative session report. Um if you need additional than
what's in the report, um send have Francine send us a note or call and we'll we'll supplement. But it's pretty thorough I believe. And madam manager, I can resend that to you. Was that the one in our June agenda?
Yes. Yes. So, nothing changed from there. No, but I'll I'll resend it so you all can have it at the top of But there were some modifications to 180 before it was signed, right? Minor adjustments. There were minor adjustments. Well, not not beyond the June end.
Not beyond what, Ron? I'm sorry. Not beyond the June end of session. No. Okay, thank you. That's what I'm gonna forward. Okay, thank you guys for being here. Thank you. Keep up the good work, Ra. We hope to hear from you very soon about
that visit. We We are Look, look, I will say this about the Department of Commerce. They're excited about you guys. And so, while wasn't good news, the secretary himself is excited about being helpful.
Thank you. Excellent. May I ask one more question? Um, can we also see if we can get together with FD because well they that's where the money is and that's where our projects are. Yes, the answer is if that would be possible that would
be great. It is. Okay. Thank you guys again for being here. Thank you. Thank you so much. I know. Happy 4th of July. Yes. All right. So, did we already we already approved
the consent, right? Pulling the items. Okay. So, we're moving those items 6 8 9 and 12 to after 23. Um, and
let's So, that puts us on to item number 13, right? I don't think we made a motion to approve. Did we approve it? We just motion to approve the consent with those items been moved. I got a question about
it though. Apparently my agenda is a little bit different. There's a new agenda. I I know my voice too. So use this one. Use the one you have here. The free sheet. You have one there. You do. There should in the stack. There should be a You have one in the stack. It looks like looks like this. Looks like a new
agenda in any of this stuff. It was under the front cover when they handed them out. Here I thought it was Oh, I think it was stuck in. Oh, Paul stole it. Is what it comes off. I got
Wow. I got it from Francine. So, so we're clear. Six with pull from Vincent. Item item 6, 9, and 12. 6, 8, 9, and 12 were pulled and they're moved after. Hold on. Point of clarity. What Todd was calling 12 is not 12. It was 15. No, it
it what Todd was calling 12 is not 12. 12 didn't need to be pulled. Okay. So, let's not pull 12. Do we have to go back and make another vote? Because we're pulling that from the regular agenda. We do. Okay. So, can
I have a remotion to pull I make a motion and pull items 6 8 9 and 15 from the consent? Not on the consent. It's already We need to go back to approving the agenda. Oh, that's right. We need to
talk about pulling three, six, you want to go. N I make a motion to approve the consent with items six and agenda. The consent agenda. No, the whole agenda. I thought we already did the whole agenda. We got to revise it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay. We got to
redo the whole thing. Uh I make a motion to approve the agenda. Removing uh for discussion. Uh oh. Yes. Removing three. And then are we doing the consent? Removing six and six, eight, and nine. And the consent for discussion and 15.
We're removing 15. Can't she just amend her original motion? We're not removing 15. Are we But we're approving the whole agenda now because we have to re Let's start over. We have to reapprove the whole agenda. We have to go back to the beginning of the meeting because we accidentally removed
12 when we were supposed to remove 15. I understand. So, we are now approving the whole agenda first and then we will approve the consent agenda. Okay. Are we pulling 15? We're not pulling 15. No, we're not pulling 15. It's on the regular. Okay. It stays. So, it stays. Okay. Lisa, you are good. Go, Lisa. I
make a motion to approve the agenda pulling item three and then having 6, eight, and nine taken from the consent for discussion. Second. Perfect. All in favor? I opposed. Passes five to zero. Mercy. All right. Now I need a motion to
approve the consent agenda. I make a motion to approve the consent agenda. Do I need to mention 689? Not second. All in favor? I I opposed. Okay. Passes five to zero. Now we're on to item
number 13. You don't want to do the ones that were pulled from consent? Nope. We're doing them at the end. Item number 13. Who's taking this item? Francine. Yes, sure. I'd like I mean, you want me to have Val read the
resolution? Mhm. Go ahead, B. Consideration of approval on resolution number 202549, a resolution of the town council of the town of Lockahhatchee Gross, Florida, nominating a town council member for and supporting his or her appointment as the Florida League of Cities voting delegate
and providing for an effective date. Each year at the um League of Cities conference, we have to appoint a voting delegate. Most often it's the mayor. If the mayor is attending, this year the mayor is not attending. And if the vice
mayor is not attending, then we need to have a nomination from the rest of the council. So far as I know, Mr. McClendon is the only council member that I am aware of. Okay. Then let's nominate Todd. All right. I nominate Todd McClendon to
be the representative at the Florida League of Cities. Second. Is there a second? I can't. Second. Is there a Okay. All in favor? I. Okay. Passes five to zero.
Number 14. Val, could you read that one for us? Consideration of approval on resolution number 202553. A resolution of the town council of the town of Lockach Gross, Florida, appointing a member to the unified land development code review committee due to
a vacancy providing force severability conflict and in effective date. I'm sorry, Valerie, can you tell us um which item tab since we didn't get new tabs? Um that would be under now 10. That will be
under 10. Thank you. 10. 12 is 10. 12 is 10. Okay. 14 is 10. Mhm. It's 11. It's 11. 14 is 11. 14's 11. Sorry about that, guys. Um 14 is 11.
That's the one that we had to consider two different things. So, I I made an appointment to the uldc. Um that person is not a resident. they are a land owner. Our rules say that we can have
landowners on ad hoc committees, but it they say specifically they disclude land owners from being on regular committees. If you go to page 104, which is what's in the tabs here, he checked that he is a resident of Lockachi Groves. Well, but
he's not. I was confused about that, too. Yeah, he checked every place where asked him he's a resident said he's res. He uh vod perhaps misunderstood the question. I don't know. But I'm self-reporting that he is not in fact a resident. He he is a land owner. Um but
he is not a resident. So don't we have to change something in order to approve this one? Well, we have to have a discussion about whether we're going to So that's what we're that's why that's why it's separate from the others and not on the consent. And that's why we're having this discussion. And the
discussion is do we want to open up committees to land owners as well as residents or do we just want to stick to our guns and say that it's just residents? So, I'm happy to I think when I think originally when they changed
this was all because somebody was trying to put the manager of a certain farm on a committee that would have impacted, you know, that is correct. you know, so that that's the whole reason that this was here. And and you know, albeit I
like the things I've heard Mr. Yan say, I just, you know, I don't know. I think we want to tread lightly on this on this topic. You know, it's it's realize he's a resident of Palm Beach County, but he's not a resident of Locks
Edge Grove. So, I hear you. I have a lot of reservations on that, too. Um, the largest South Florida developer owns property in Lock Edi Groves. Right. Right. And it would open it up to him being on one of these committees. So, I mean, if it was a finance committee, that might be one thing, but when it's a developer that's on planning and zoning
or ULDC, that's concerning to me. Yeah, I I have I mean, you know, although I made the appointment, and by the way, everybody, I do have a backup appointment that is a resident that's already been approved. So, I'm not I'm not fighting this one way or the other. Um, and I'm not married to how it gets
considered, but but here I can see both sides. I certainly see your side, but I would say it would be up to council to not approve the largest land owner if somebody did nominate them, just like they didn't approve them in the past. So, I would say we we we should hope that we have a council that's more
diligent in watching that. I guess my biggest concern in not being able to make appointments of land owners is um we are by virtue of what our rules are right now giving renters more rights than we're giving landowners. And
because renters can be renters are residents and they can be appointed to these committees and land owners have a a fiduciary relationship with the town. They have that kind of responsibility. That kind of relationship. A renter does not, right? A renter is just like, you
know, hey, I don't like it. I'll just Yeah. move to the I'll go rent someplace in the next town or whatever. or a landowner presumably is someone who has financial stewardship of our town um and is is
concerned about financial and fiscal decisions we make. They're a taxpayer. I mean, I I agree to a point. I I agree to a point. Um, but it's still and and as you stated previously, you would hope that down the road the next council or next three councils would make the
proper decision, but I think that's, you know, so we open it up, right? and we say no, you know, or the next, you know, I I we're dealing right now, we're soon to be dealing with, you know, somebody who's making a trying to make a decision
that's, you know, not in alignment with what a lot of other people think. So, should we say no renters as well? I I'm saying I mean, is it is it appropriate to give a renter more rights than a landowner? That was that that was the the the sticky wicked as it was when
they first when they would discuss this back then too. But a renter can vote here, right? And a land owner necessarily can't. So So renters do have more stake in it anyway. They do. You're right that way, Lisa. Yeah, I'm I'm going to have to weigh in on that as well. And also, I think if nothing else
from the little BTR exercise that we did, the corporate land ownership in this town is outrageous at very high levels. And I would ask what other cities do. Do they just let land owners step in and sit on these advisory
committees? They do all kinds of different things. Do they? They do. Like for instance, if you go to a big city like Del Re, they allow business owners to be on their committees. They actually allow developers to sit on some of their
committees. Um but that is a town of between 70 and 80,000 and um you know it's a whole lot more complicated and so on than here. Um every town does things
differently. Um can you is there another town comparable to us that you can tell us what they do? Who is comparable to us? Come on. I mean, I would say I would say I, you know, kind of I did a little research and I'm not going to quote numbers or whatever, and I'm not going
to name the town, but a town close to us size, size-wise, maybe a little smaller, what, and similar close in proximity. Um, when when they first came around, the majority of their council was from
every other place that town. Huh. That's that's common that it happens. So, I mean, I don't want to, you know, because I don't want to cast dispersion, but I mean, you know, of their council, not just their committee of their council of of their I don't think anybody that
served the first council at Westlake lived there, right? That's true. That's true. That's true. Sorry. So, I mean, not me. Yeah. It's I mean, it's it's matter of record. I mean, it was, you know, it's matter of record, but yeah, there was I mean, there was members that weren't
even in the state at the time. At the same time, I think they've changed it now where it's not that way, right? They've matured and and I think it was a limited period of time because there was nobody that lived there, right? So, okay. So, we want to leave it the way it is. Just residents including renters. The bad part about it is hard to find
people that you that are good to serve on these committees because it's not necessarily an easy job. But then, right, but then you have people start attacking these people, right? Because, right, you know, everybody thinks that their opinion is right and you know, so they these people get attacked on these committees. It's not good. Um, so I
understand the position you're in trying to find somebody that's good that's willing to put up with those attacks. It's not easy, right? No, I I have, like I said, I have a backup, but I just thought it was something that could be considered because I, you know, I know that under the old model of how we used to vote at the water control district,
it was in fact the land owners who had the majority say, right? And so because that's how it was done by proxies of land owners in acreage. So, you know, that that certainly left them that certainly left them responsible for a large amount of the decisions of where
we are now. And I I feel like they maybe are stripped of their rights. So, I I I accept the decision now that we're just going to leave it this way. But I think it's something that maybe we need to to maybe put in the strategic plan and think about a little further is is
looking at those things um and have everybody do a little bit of research and see see if moving forward we we don't think there needs to be some changes in that. I don't think it's necessarily well change the structure across the board. I mean that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Like make it and we're allowing them on ad
hoc committees. So, you know, again, I I just think that we have to be um really present to the rights of the land owners, and I understand that that some of them are corporate entities, but I think that we need to be really present to that as we move
forward and make decisions, but I will accept the decision that no, Mr. Yan does not qualify. So, um we can move on with the next item. Wait, should we do my second person here? Okay, go ahead. Read that in. Uh
you were nominating Miss Danielle uh Herity. You guys have um a backup resolution I believe in your packet. We have her. And yeah, this one this one. This
202553. Yes, that's correct. Correct. Um and so a resolution of the town council of the town of Lock statue growth Florida appointing Daniel Herity to the uldc committee providing for severability conflict and an effective date. Do we
get her application? Yes, ma'am. I do have her application and her resume and she she um she was actually here when you with one of the people that was considered for that was when I approached her because I knew I might need a backup. So and I liked her.
Do you want to make a motion to approve? Motion to approve. Second. All in favor? I. Passes five to zero. Welcome, Miss Herity. Okay, that was number Oh, I haven't been crossing out. That's always bad. And I'm on like two different pages here. 15.
That was 14. We are now on number 15, which was the one that Todd, do you want to discuss? Was it you that said 15? 15 is not a pulled item. No, but he he originally said it was Yeah. No, I didn't want to discuss 15. Okay, but we're going to discuss it. Okay, go
ahead. Would you like to read this one in? So, this was one of the ones that was pulled. I thought we were moving this to to the end. Not pulled because it's on the regular agenda. It was pulled when we thought it was 12 on consent, but now that it's 15 on regular, it's staying right here and we're discussing it.
Okay. Consideration of approval on resolution number 202550, a resolution of the town council of the town of Lockahi Grove, Florida, adopting budget amendment for the town's budget for the fiscal year beginning October
1, 2025 and ending September 30th, 2025, providing for severability conflicts and an effective date and consideration of approval on resolution number 20258, a resolution of the town council of the town of Lockahhatchee Groves, Florida, authorizing an employment agreement for
the town attorney with Jeffrey S. Curts Esquire and providing an effective date. Okay. And just FYI everybody, this is now this is still item number 12 in your original packet. Okay. So we can follow
along. Todd. Yeah. So I had tech talk to Jeff about this. Um, one of my concerns is, uh, well, first of all, I don't I don't know Jeff that well, so I'm going to go with counsel as to what kind of person he is, but he seems good to me so far. Um, but my question is some of his benefits are
different than general employee benefits. And when I was here and we hired um, Jamie Tiffk, one of my things was I thought the town manager and everybody should get the same benefits. That way, they're all fighting as a team for their benefits. and I would like to see his contract mirror the benefits
that are already applied to the rest of the employees here. Um what what I would suggest um and I don't know how you want to do it in order to consider the 2558. you you
kind of really need to pass 2550 and whether you're going to move forward with 2558 I think you need to do something with respect to uh amending the um he wants to handle the first part of it first or the end or but but I'll
respond to to Todd's inquiry what I think um Mr. Mlennon was talking about um was that I had requested 160 hours of um PTO uh rather than the 144 that I
would be entitled to um based on my uh length of service as of October 1st. Okay. Yeah. And you willing to amend that based on his request or no? Um
I'm I told uh Councilman McClendon that that's not a that's not a deal breaker for me. Okay. Two days one way or another. I'd prefer to have them, but uh it's not uh it's not something that would affect my acceptance of the
contract if that's Thank you. Lisa and Paul, I don't know which one of you were first, but is yours about the budget amendment or about Mr. Curts's contract? Well, as far as the budget amendment, it's tied into the contract and um I don't how how you separate the two
necessarily. Well, we have to approve the budget amendment first and then we can consider the contract. It's it's I understand what you're the way it is the way the way it is currently written. Um the budget amendment does anticipate
going to a um in-house council model um with two employees associated with that. Okay. Um so I can talk to that matter then. Yes. Thank you. Um I was under the impression when this discussion happened
last year that going to in-house counsel was going to be a costsav um scenario. And this doesn't appear to me to be a cost-saving scenario in that by going to in-house council cost
uh you are basically keeping the faucet running all the time. And if you look back historically over the legal expenditures, they they are something that council can restrict through budget process and it
in the last three cycles they have continually only gone in one direction. Um and the underbudgeting from 2024 um was clearly not the trend that was happening from the previous uh two years. So, um I personally don't find
that this is a way to go that doesn't give us a way to step off the train, so to speak in the spending. So, I I just want to respond to that because I'm the one that originally said I thought it would be cost cutting. Um
and and in fact, I agree with you. I'm not sure that it's going to uh well, I think it's going to be less than we're paying now for outside counsel. I mean, I think I I do still believe that, but here's what here's what I do believe, but but I don't think
it's going to be cost cutting, meaning that the two 70 that we we originally had in the budget that was never met as you are correct for the last three years, it was always upwards of 400,000. I mean, we had a very artificially low number in the budget and then it wound
up being considerably more than that. I do still we're gonna I believe we're still we're going to come in more than what was budgeted but wasn't real but less than what actually happened. Does that make sense? But where I do think it's going to save us money and time is
in the efficiency of the process. I think that having someone in house is going to be and if it was Mr. Gurts or or whoever's someone who works with us that has a historical knowledge of a town that is already here at the meetings that isn't charging extra and
travel time to come to the meetings that is already in the game basically and knows what's going on in the town that will be in all the meetings. It won't have to be transferred back and then parcled out to a lawyer and then talked about there and then brought back to that lawyer and back again. So I think
in time and efficiency is where it's really going to improve our legal services. So, I just wanted to say that I I do in fact agree with you and have an amendment of my original analysis that it was going to save us a lot of money when I looked at the whole package. So, I agree with you on that.
Okay. Well, uh let's go back then. I've only sat here since March, but I've only heard in almost every meeting that was brought up on any legal documentation that our anything that was assigned to
Mr. Curts did not get done. And if it did get done, it had to be reviewed by the legal council for insufficiencies and and corrections. So I I'm not sure that the timeliness of all that claim is going to be true. And I know that we had
in our previous agenda, um we had the current town attorney give us a cost uh breakdown on why our costs are continuing to go up when it comes to this this kind of spending.
and what our town should be spending relative to other towns. So, I firmly continue to disagree that having in-house counsel is necessarily going to save us time or money. So, thank you, Paul.
So, in the in the case of like, you know, if we have an outside council and there's a malpractice issue, Glenn makes a wrong judgment or something like that, right? We have recourse. Correct. Correct. We have we as the council as a
town have recourse. No offense against you. Right. If we have in-house counsel, we negate that that recourse is gone. Correct. No. Yeah. The the town the town has an emission policy under the Florida
League of Cities insurance. It's a different coverage. It's a different protection for the town. It's not the same recourse, but we do have recourse. So, it's an additional fee. No% emission insurance right now for the town.
Although when you said it was a different coverage, it's a different it is a different type of recourse, but it is existing coverage that we have now and it covers all of you and it covers your employees. It's for officers and
elected officials of the town. It's part of the League of Cities Insurance and Glenn if you want to add to it or Jeff. So we are we we have recourse through insurance. I'm kind of I was thinking along the same lines as Lisa. I mean,
you know, I understand it looks less expensive now, but you know, like Todd was saying, the open faucet, but you know, if we say we no longer have to have, if we come up with a, we've talked about this in previous meetings, you know, instead of having the
attorney look at every PO that's written, we have a blanket PO that's easily fillable, that's, you know, doesn't have to be reviewed every single one. That's even if it's 15 minutes, that's 15 minutes billable time. Da da da. So, you know, you can curtail
the the spending that way. I mean, I I just let you know, we do not review every PO. Just so we we do not review every PO. I'm just saying. And I know I'm being a little exaggerative, but I mean, you know, that's you know, I don't know. That was just tren. Well, I mean,
the charter says that no contract with the town shall take effect until his or her approval when it's talking about the town attorney. So, how have you been doing it now? I mean, we provide the town with a standard PO, which they use. And occasionally, but this doesn't say PO, it says contract. So, I'm assuming if somebody goes to rent the piece of
equipment and they sign, right, when they rent a chainsaw, that's a contract, right? And they're signing to that. By all rights, according to this, from what I read, you should be reviewing that. We should be, but we haven't been provided them generally. So, we came up with a standard one at the town's request and
that's what the town's supposed to use and use that one and not modify it. That's But that doesn't really meet the charter, right? No, I think it does. As long as the town is using an approved form and not changing it, but the changes from a chainsaw this week to a shovel next week, then the form has
changed. It's a different contract. The form of the contract hasn't changed because you're approving it for form and sufficiency. Well, it says no contract shall take. Again, we'd be happy to review every PO if that's what you wanted to do. No, it's not. My point is it's probably something we need to address, you know, and get it changed.
Um, so yeah, it's very concerning. And it's weird because the OIG's looked at looked at this many times and they've never brought it up, but I'm kind of confused why they haven't because they find stuff that you wouldn't think they would find and this seems kind of obvious. Um, but but I'm concerned about
how our bills got to where they are so far over budget. Um, and I know you had some of an explanation at the last meeting, actually the meeting before. Um, and and I guess I had some questions about that.
Your office provides a budget number for legal services. We do not. the town assigns a number and this number was a random number that had no relation to reality because if you look at the previous year's budgets they were all over 300,000 and the staff decided to
plug in a number because I'm not sure their reasons but part of it was they were looking about going to this in-house model so that was the number that was put in. We have no say over the budget that's set. Did you know in the charter it says you do? I'm supposed to, but there's a lot of things in the
charter that the town doesn't do. So, I don't know if you want to open that can of worms. Well, it's concerning because sitting from the member of the public, right? I mean, I don't know what conversations you had with who was sitting here before, but according to the charter, it's your responsibility to provide an annual budget for their
operation for legal services. And our budget when we have those conversations are it's going to be about the same as the previous year. And the previous year was $350, $400,000. And the town came up with the budget that was half of that. I can't set the budget. I can only suggest what it would be. Right. So, you did do
that. Yeah. Okay. Um, one of my concerns is and I don't think there's been a lot paid over the budget. What was in the budget? My understanding is you like we're 5,000 over what's been what's been spent so far for legal services. So, it's not crazy over
budget, but at the same time, and maybe this maybe the town manager relayed this to the council, somebody should have said, "Hey, we're four months in, but we're we're at the end here, right? you know, we've run out of money that I don't know if those conversations were had privately or not. I don't know. Was it sitting here? They were. And that's
concerning. I mean, that should this issue should have been taken care of a long time ago and slowed everything down. Um I we met and we talked about slowing everything down and it So, who who directs you on how much
service you provide? The manager. and sometimes the council, but 90% of it is the manager. And that's what I read last time um when you explained that. But you you and the manager are equal. You're both charter officers, right? You're both equal to each other. She doesn't work for you. You don't work for her.
So, it's concerning when you say the town manager told me what to do and that's why you're over budget because you're an equal to her according to the charter. The client is the town. The town council sets the policy. the town manager carries out
that policy. If the town manager directs that we would write a new sign code, for example, that's the one that was the flash point. And I said, "No, we shouldn't write a new sign code. We provided you one in June and the council told you to bring it to ULDC." And the answer is, "No, we're going to do a new one." And I brought it to the council
and the council to do the do a new one. So, you just blew a bunch of money on a code you didn't need, but because the manager and the council wanted me to, we did. Well, because the man manager did or the council did. I guess that's the manager requested in February because the charter specifies that the town
manager doesn't direct you and it sounds like you let the town manager direct you. The town manager wanted us to write a new sign code and I brought it in February and I said, Francine, the council directed you in June to send the
one we provided to the never happened. I want you to do a new sign code. It was very adamant. So I brought it up to the council about a month later. I think it was in March and the council wanted the new sign code. So it started with the manager and it continued with the
council. Right. So that was one example. Right. But it sounds like you're saying the majority of what you've done has been directed by the town manager and according to the charter that shouldn't have been happening. No, I don't agree with you on that because the town council sets the policy, the manager manages. And that the council directs,
for example, that you're going to develop a certain code, the manager is implementing that. And the manager has discretion as to how she's implementing that. If she wants to do one ordinance or three ordinances, that's up to her. I'm not there to second guess the manager's managerial decisions. So, if
she believes that there's a reason that a new document should be drafted or in some cases, the council will get a document and ordinance and pass it on first reading and then on second reading. and then you have to go back and we do it again. And Francine mentioned that in my letter I quoted
from her in an email to Phyllis where she talked about how there's oftentimes, let me just get exactly what was said because I I think she put it where it will. I will say that we use our attorney more than many other cities as we do not have the level of staff in numbers or level
of experience or even just the physical time to write or address the numerous issues the foundate faces as well as the bottleneck of writing the pass and of course the volleyball generally has us looking at the same issues multiple times to no avail. This city does that more than any other
three cities I represent together. You look at the same issues again and again and again and you pass them on first reading. you sent back. You'll do the ULDC. You'll do the SC whatever it is. You generate you collectively the manager and the council much more work
than the other cities I listed. There's no reason that Greenacres budget is half of yours and they have a lot more complex issues. They have a fire department. They have a parks and recreation department. But this city, that's one reason I resigned because it's frustrating to work for an organization that's so inefficient and
just keeps frustrating my entire staff that we're doing this again. We did this six months ago. Why are we doing it again? So, I I didn't want to get into this conversation, but if you're going to push us to why, that's the reason why because I have better things to do than to repeat the same thing again and
again. And it's not necessary to point a finger. I'm trying to figure out how do we prevent it from moving forward. We move forward. How do we stop it from happening? And like you said, and I know I've sat here and I've sat in the audience and seen the council bring up things time and time again at four different meetings, the same thing and rehash it. I have seen that and you're
100% right. I agree with that. And how do you stop that? I mean, I don't have that magic wand, but that does happen. C sometimes the council members change, have different philosophies, different ways to look at things. And you know, I feel bad for this town. I feel bad for the citizens because you're rehashing a
lot of the same things again and again and again. And I don't know why that happens that every town has a like I say it represent a dozen cities. It's like having a dozen children. Every child is different. Every city is different. Everyone has their own personality. I love them all. All those children, all
those cities, but each one of you is different. Some have different priorities. Yours are obviously agricultural based. You know, Lakeworth Beach is all about the beach and the downtown. So, everybody has different priorities. But, you know, I understand
you're you're engaging a consultant to look at uh the SWAT analysis, strengths, weaknesses. One thing I'd encourage you to do is look at how can this town be more efficient? How can you get things done? There's I remember one time uh Francine presented to the council a list
of priorities, something like 165 priorities. You know, you can't have 165 priorities. You all need to decide. She and I met in the spring and said, "Let's come up with eight or 10 priorities." The next thing you know, there's 30. So, you know, I would really encourage you
to say, "These are our three priorities or five." And Francine's nodding her head because she knows we share this frustration. We really do share this frustration that for God's sakes, they told us to do this, we did this, then they vote no, then they add three more new priorities. It's really difficult
and it's and I frankly think it's another reason why you lose a lot of staff. I mean when Laura Dowski was sitting up there two years ago I remember she said something about staff and Francie said well you know other than one other person everybody's been less than two years and so you have a lot of turnover and staff and it's very
frustrating for folks to work when you don't have an end goal right you're you're all everybody likes to finish a project nobody likes unfinished projects you have more of them than anybody else I could think of and I'll give you an example how many emails did we get about vote no on this item vote no on this
item vote no on this item and this is how things keep so we vote no on it and then it's that issue is not resolved and it comes back two months later right so I mean that's how that's how things happen here is we get a bunch of emails vote no on 25% of what's on our agenda tonight but we still have to address
those issues so if we voted no on it we got to deal with it in a couple months anyway so this is how things continue to just drag on and drag on and not not get done yeah you're very by moving forward right in fairness I Paul, I think you
were I'm sorry. Go ahead. I mayor, if you might indulge me, in fairness, the 165 item list was requested and created by sitting council and we actually and I believe that Marge might remember, we
actually did series of whiteboard things and we sent out these lists because every council person had, let's say, 20 or 25 different things that they I didn't mean to say Francine created that list. That was her idea. No, she's absolutely right. Yeah, I did not make
that list up like I want to do this because what I want to do is serve the majority of you on three to five, my god, maybe even 10 things. But that sign code, what was in your package, since that's
our flash point, what was in your package last June when I was in the hospital was a memo that saidnone of the manager's two pages of recommendations have been considered, nor have your professional planners comments been
considered because we want to discuss it with you first. Rather than discussing it, the mayor said, "I watched the video and I went back and read everything that was in the package." It said, "The manager wanted to speak to you all about
this because she has concerns." And my concerns were about the letter and whether you wanted to us and the direction from you all on how you wanted us to address those items. We didn't
have anything to send to uldc because those items were the items that needed to be addressed. We do have a signed code today that was written internally including those items and a matrix with
homework assignments and they're excited to act on it absent SB 180. But the point is we were seeking direction from the council on June 4th and nobody looked at it to give direction. They said send it on and there was nothing to
send. So in fairness, you know, we're not we're not adversaries. We and the firm have walked the path together. We have looked at the same things over and over. when the mayor sat with us at the beginning of the year and we did address
the 10 priorities. I can show you all kinds of emails and lists and tracking and Valerie would meet uh separately with the attorneys and go over the list every Thursday after the council meeting and go over what changed on Tuesday
night that changed that list. I mean, if we're going to be transparent, your head would spin every Thursday. So that is what has happened and that's why I believe the mayor came in in March suggesting let's hit a reset button do a
strategic plan pick let's say five or 10 for craziness let's pick those five or 10 things that are going to make a difference here to our residents financially physically mindset
preserve the rural lifestyle what's the most important stuff that we have to get done this year. And now we're going through the strengths and weaknesses. We did one internally, which again I'm happy to share with you. I think at the
end of our next round of it, we're going to find a lot of the same things. We have an overwhelming list of priorities. And when that happens, nothing gets done. And when every item is looked at
that we have to dig up old bones, you know, after we've already made a decision, because that's what we do, too. We get questioned about bringing something back. And you can't bring something back unless you're on the prevailing side. So why are we going
back and digging up all the information on something already voted on? So I'm going to stop now. But in fairness, Mr. Mr. Torcivia's firm has done a yman's job and when we did the budget each year we did sit with Mr. Torcivia or his
staff or his staff and when we came up with that lower budget last year we did meet with the mayor and we talked about changing our approach so that we could use more standardized templates and so on. It did not work the way we expected
it to work. So in terms of the higher spending, yes, Mr. Torcivia took my suggestion to no longer come to any of the code enforcement meetings because that's how we could save money. We couldn't save money on the lawsuits from
the land use. We had to keep working on those things. So I take full responsibility for what we spent. I also can remind everyone I did say we were overspending. I did say we needed to
make a budget amendment. I came forward starting in January with we need to figure something out because we are not making it. And since March, we have been embroiled in some other things. I'm very sad to see Mr. to civian his firmly us because
many of the accomplishments we've made these years have been through that partnership and so just as my final comment I say thank you and I share your frustration and all we want to do is serve is is it fair to say when you said
earlier that the town manager would give you a list he she was just a conduit for what the council was wanting is that fair to say it's I mean I can't get inside Francine's head I think a lot of it was trying to fulfill council's direction. It just, you know, you know,
I wasn't planning on resigning a month ago. I went away on vacation. When I was gone, I said, "You know what? This town needs a reset." And I don't want to give you up. I love doing this. And I've known Jeff for 20, 30 years. And if that and that's the conversation that we had
with the mayor and individual council members. I mean, March is the only one that's left, frankly. I mean, there's been a lot of change from last year. You're a new, you're a new, you're new. But those conversations were, okay, we're going to try to um this for
another year and, you know, put the Jeff idea on the back burner. Um, and it just didn't work the way any of us in that room thought. We all thought we'd be able to to bring the price down and we just weren't. There were so many new priorities every week, new priorities.
And how about the old priorities? And the old priorities would go to the bottom of the list. And so it's again I think you all I would suggest respectfully that you take ownership of this and you say these are our priorities and unless we as a council publicly vote to change the
priorities town manager UT attorney shall not work on other stuff you know or within a limit of $5,000 or 10 hours because it's not my my time you see in dollars what you don't see is the time that staff is spending on all these things hours and hours and hours and
staff gets frustrated. I I I get what you're saying. Okay. I'm sorry, Todd. I've been sitting here just I get what you're saying, right? But every time somebody brings up your bill, no offense, Glenn, every time somebody brings up your bill, you just go sign
code. It's like the sign code was what caused the bill to go over the budget. I know, but every time it's like the sign code we had, the sign code's been beat around for how many years? So, I think we can say that we we beat that horse to death. But I mean I to to say that
listen there was like you said like you said a second ago there was a lot of different people sitting up here what four months ago right? Yeah. A lot of different people making a lot of different decisions and a lot of so I I think things they are are changing as some people would say. But, you know, I
mean that I would think that, you know, just kind of since we're all talking about this, I mean, I I would think at some point, and maybe it maybe it happened. Again, there were different people sitting up here. At some point, somebody needed to say, "Listen, you guys, every every first Tuesday of the
month, you guys change direction. This week we're going north. Next week we're going south. There's, you know, so I mean, until it gets to the point where it's where we are today." So, I mean, you know, I I I don't have one way or the
other to say about it because I again, I'm I'm just here, but I I think we're all vested in moving forward. Um, you know, I I think, you know, and you know, that 165, honestly, that 16, like you said, different personalities, but yeah,
I I agree. We shouldn't have 165 priorities. That should be all dumbed down to to 10 priorities. And maybe put those on the bottom. You know, if we get these 10 done, we can start on 11 type of thing. Um, but you know, so I I don't I don't
Are you done? Yeah, I'm done. Lisa, I know you've been waiting patiently. Yep. Yep. So, um I think Mr. Torcivia said something that was um enlightening in that he said these were weekly priorities. This council for the last year's only met once a month. So, how
did weekly priorities constantly change if it isn't internal to staff? And I know Todd when you and I were sitting on the outside two years ago, we talked about how were legal documents being generated and no discussion was happening up here from the deis. So I
think the suggestion of we start to limit the spending, we it must absolutely be positively voted on here in the public. Um, I have lots of suggestions I'd like to discuss in my council comments on on what we can do moving forward for cost savings, but um,
I I think the reality of it is is council again has not done their job to to keep a cap on some of this stuff. So, well, I I can tell you when I sat here last time as a council member, we had a town attorney that would start writing on resolutions and stuff that one council member asked him to do and he
finally got his head bit off at a meeting and he said, "That's it. I'm not working on any of that stuff until the council tells me to do it. But you and I had discussed this and you said, "Well, staff has things that they have to get done and that's okay because there's internal things and and I think that we've been a town long enough to know
what those annual or semiannual requirements are." And um that that should be a level of legal spending that is understood to be kind of the threshold. And then over and above that is I think where some of this has gotten out of control. And if it's weekly
priority changes, who's responsible for that? It's not council. Well, how many times did Phyllis talk about two council members sitting with a town attorney for multiple hours every single week? That was our discussion, right, two years ago. Yes. Can can you give us some an idea how that happened or is it true or
is it not true? Because the two council members that were accused of doing it didn't deny it. So, I can only assume that was what was happening. Right. I'm going to I'll defer to Francine, but because I wasn't in those meetings, my understanding is when Francine would meet with one of those individuals that was the mayor and then the next one that
was the mayor that she felt she wanted to have an attorney present and she requested an attorney present and the president and the attorney would be there at the manager's request. And that's fair summary. Francine, it's fair. We started those meetings because
we needed to make clear how some of the things in the charter worked and how some of the things in terms of, you know, rules that non-elected officials don't necessarily know. Um, so we started to try to do that to make things
clear. For instance, if any of you do something neighborly in the court of public perception, you might be seen as doing a favor for someone. So those kind of things. Additionally, we had a number of questions going on with regard to how
people could vote because people were living people were deemed to be in conflict if there were less than 100 people included. There were a number of very large issues that required attorney discussion during
that period of time. Um and um it did not make sense and it would not be efficient for the conversation to be had with me and then for me to relay it to the attorney or for something that was a legal question that the legal answer
couldn't be right at that moment. But it wasn't happening once or once in a while. This was like a regular basis. It was it was every Monday and Tuesday acres. I assume that's not typical. Every town is different as I said before and and every council when they change are different. In general, we don't go
to meetings with council members on a regular basis, but different towns are different. Some towns you go to It hasn't happened for the last two years. Right. Right. Well, it'll well occasionally I'll I would have attended a meeting a couple of meetings with you and Francine, but it wasn't on a regular
all the time basis. And I remember I did an analysis for another council member on that and that amount of money sounded like it was a lot and I think it was like $20,000 over a twoyear period of time which isn't small but you know somebody was saying it's $80,000. No, that number was inflated by a factor of
four or five. The point comes back to I'm hoping you all can find your rhythm. Am I hoping you can find a work? Again, there's three new people here for really um in the sense that you've only been here a year and a half now, right? So maybe you can come up with a a way to
work with the manager and if you select Jeff with Jeff so that you are more efficient in accomplishing these goals and prioritizing the goals because again there's a hundred different things you can say like why as Franc says who shot Johnny that's not going to get us anywhere. I think it's time you move
past that. Anything I can do to help, I've always said to both Jeff and Francine, I'm more than willing to be helpful to the town. I love the town. Margger, remember I was here at the very beginning when the town was even talking about getting formed. I was one of the first people that did a presentation. How do you form a town? So, I care about
this community, but I also realized that sometimes change is good and it was just time for me to change out because the when the focus starts being what are your legal bills, then that's not the my job. my job is to give you legal advice and um you know I hope that during the
six or so years we were here I believe we did that on a good and solid basis all the time. And I would also say one thing and please indulge me if you will. We did not have weekly changing priorities which you mean to say is that we got direction at council meetings.
Please add that to the next agenda. Please add that to the next agenda. And the meetings weren't held weekly. They were held the Thursday after the council meeting. So if I mistake if I misspoke and gave you an idea that there were 52
meetings between the attorney's office and Valerie's office, that did not happen. What we did was we took inventory of the direction we got at council meetings. And you know one of the things that we had done in the past
was we tried to limit that by saying let's get a consensus of everybody that we bring that back and when because bringing it back at the next meeting might be a little bit difficult. So but that's what happens and
I'm not making priorities up. I think some of you recognize the hours that I put in. I would certainly like less. I'm not coming up with extra priorities to do it, nor am I trying to be inefficient. We are about as efficient
as we've ever been, except for the volleyball. We need to pick five or 10 things and do them all year. I have the list of the seven or 10 things that we said at the beginning of the year. We've worked on probably 50 or 100 including
those seven things. So, thank you for letting us share this because we would like to change it. And the first way you change is you talk about what happened. Any other comments from council? Any public comment? Miss Standish
Virginia Standish 15410 North Road. Uh the reality is your number for litigation should have been 400,000 for the past three years probably. So, let's try and come up with realistic numbers. Like, oh, we were going to do this, but we did this, so what happened? It's
pretty obvious what happened. You've been rehashing it. Um, my comment, so again, 400,000 whether you're hiding it as in-house staff and the rest is litigation because you're going to need outside counsel. No one attorney does anything. My comment and
question to council is the process. Town charter states that um you can have a temporary attorney. You have 90 days to start the process to search for an attorney.
Town firm gave notice. They gave the 30 days notice. No job opening was placed anywhere. Then we see in the agenda, hey, here's a contract to start July 2nd. Again, the process, our charter states, you can
have a temporary attorney and you can start the search within 90 days. Now, perhaps Mr. Curts will be the one that gets the job. But I my question is one, why was no search done or initiated? Why
was no job posting done? Um, in the paragraph two of the contract line four, I urge you to look at those sentences. In paragraph two, it it talks about council. It talks about the attorney and then it says as a mutually
agreed to by the attorney and town. Are we talking about the town manager? I realize the attorney and the town manager at equal positions. that's well established in our charter. Um,
but the bottom line is you have a budget. Your financials need to be accurate. You need to get up-to-date billing. You need to know where you are at all times because if this council and this town staff does not keep track of what is
happening, the same thing's going to happen over and over. So the only place you know we can sit there and talk about the past or we can say going forward this is what we're going to do. So please again baffled as to why no job description was put out there. I think
there's maybe four um towns that have in-house counsel. I'm not sure if that's correct plus or minus. Um, and in the contract I'm wondering about 20 week severance pay excessive I whatever you've done for the
town manager maybe when you do that contract over if that's in there that needs to be looked at as well but 20 week severance pay is is ridiculous especially with the economy that's coming up. Thank you
Valerie. That's all. You didn't say you were going to speak. Speak. Good evening, mayor and council members. Please fill out a public comment. Yes, I know. Uh, Manish 3765 EO. I my comment is no. No.
And let me be clear this is this is not about the qualification of Mr. codes or qualification of our other employees. In this particular matter, the town manager is asking for 12 increasing the count to 12 full-time employees. Now, being as a chairman of
FACK, please pay, you know, a little bit of attention to the financial numbers I'm going to share with you. This is going to increase your long-term cost obligations by 30%. And you just heard this is not about uh the legal quality,
it's about mismanagement. This law firm reported receiving disorganized and reputative assignments with no clear prioritization or cost controls. There was no structured review of matters hours of invoices. These are process failures. And when you have process failures, like in a business, you don't
throw full-time employees on the problem. Now, you mentioned about moving forward. Let me give you some financial picture ahead of you before you make and commit this town for long-term obligations. The town manager says we can afford these additional full-time hires this year. But what about and
there are only 3 months, four months left. What about next year, next five or 10 years. We just have another agenda item in this u meeting today where we say we have a a budget short gap of 600,000. It four months from now we will be in a budget short gap of 600,000.
We have been told by the town manager that there is a 941,000 surplus. There is zero surplus. Uh we have been committed the town council in budget last year said that 1 million access from general fund has to be sent to the capital fund to build roads and bridges.
None of that has occurred. So we have no cash, no money. We are asking a bank to give us 500 line of credit because we are worried about liquidity. Our town will be begging for money if there is an incident and we are here to uh make full-term commitments. No. And if the
town manager wants to do it, present a cost cutting plan. So it is linked to the next item which I'm going to end with. If you vote yes to this with increasing the employee count to 12. You will be voting yes. You have no choice to vote yes to the largest ever tax
increase in our town's history. uh the town is proposing 4% millage rate which is a historic increase according to my calculation. So unless you are serious about a responsible tax town and my town my people here who are friends
here who are owning properties and you know or whether they live here say goodbye to selling your houses or properties because the the pace at which the tax increase is going when you do sell you will be getting a shock with the jump in your tax increase. So with that, please say no to this. Have
responsible budgets and unless you have a cost cutting plan, an efficiency plan, please wait. This is not the time to do it right this minute. Thank you so much, Valerie. That's all.
Okay. How do we handle uh we consider the first first, right? And I mean, I'm just asking a question and Well, I think the plan's a budget amendment. So, I mean, correct, we could do the budget amendment no matter what
we do with J. Consider the budget amendment and then we can maybe have and the way the the way the resolution was drafted it there are components to the um to the budget resolution. The first thing um is uh a
suggestion that about $231,000 is what is needed to um carry forward for the rest of the year. Um and that's necessary whichever direction you point in. Um we have $110,000
or so of uh legal bills that have been incurred that um are above the um current budget level. Um uh there is I think uh $23,000
that was allocated um for June um billings which we haven't received. Um uh and there is uh about $97,000 if you go with an in-house model. Uh that equates to about $32,000
um dollars a month uh in uh burn, if you will. Um and I don't think if you you have you have choices at this point in time. Um if you do not want to retain um
uh me as the uh in-house counsel um then you can ask Mr. Torcivia if he is willing to um continue the representation because you don't have uh counsel or you can solicit um other
folks. You can contact somebody. One of the things that you do not have to do with legal services there like financial services, you do not have to go out for um an RFP. You do not have to solicit it
um the position. That's state law. Correct. It's per state law. Your um and your purchasing policies as well. Um, so there's no requirement uh for specialized services like that to um be
the subject of a competitive selection. Where you're at at this moment um is Mr. Tr on behalf of the firm announced his resignation and I think it's effective
the 30 days would be tomorrow or it might be today. I don't know today or tomorrow. tomorrow the 2nd. Um I'm willing to serve I'm not willing to serve on an interim basis. An interim basis is uh uh
recipe for disaster. In order to go in house in my opinion, you would need to hire somebody um to assist in uh the representation. My suggestion is that you would hire a parillegal. Um uh and
if you don't hire that parillegal uh relatively quickly, you're going to be in a situation where you're going to be behind and everybody's going to complain. Um and I wouldn't want to go out and solicit somebody to come on
board with the idea that this is an interim position. That's the reason that if I was to be considered, I wanted a um a three-year contract. So, um if you
don't make the the selection of me, um talk to Mr. Tursivi about extending um his role or um direct us to find somebody else who can can fill that on a short-term basis. you may be able to find a law
firm that would be willing to do it. Um, but regardless, the first thing is you need uh to have funds allocated in your budget to to move forward. Um, the the second part of the
um uh the resolution deals with the number of full-time employees. Um, right now there have been positional changes that have the council has been
made aware of, but we have not officially amended the uh the budget to reflect those changes. Um, and that is we went from a part-time uh code supervisor to a full-time
uh community standards director. We went from a part-time uh a part-time code officer to a full-time code officer. Um and we added a
full-time permit clerk in the um in the building department. we have not filled one of the positions that was allocated in the budget and that was um
administrative assistant uh for the manager. So you start off with a net increase of two people based on actions that have already taken place and the council was made aware of of those changes. Um and
uh the proposal if you go in-house is that you need to add another two people. Um Councilman Coleman reminded me that uh when you do those numbers and especially if you can use your fingers
um it's not 12, it's 13 full-time people that would be uh would be there with those those machinations. Um, so if you want to discuss those three elements as it were
separately, I think the first thing is have a discussion on whether or not you want to allocate sufficient funds in the legal uh budget to move forward for the rest of the year. Second thing, talk about whether or not you want to bring
um uh the legal services inhouse with me or with somebody else. I think the model um would be the same no matter who applied. Um and then the third component is uh to ratify the number of employees,
the full-time employees that we're talking about. Um, and that depends somewhat on whether you go with an in-house model. So, take those three components, give us direction on that, and we can um either pass or amend the
ordinance or the resolution accordingly. Uh, and then you can move on to to my contract. Lisa, can we do the budget amendment vote or does your question have to do with that? Can we do the first little bit of this four process? I would just
say my recollection of uh Torivia's um resignation was that they were available through the transition period as long as it really took. Um so I that was really all I wanted to say and I do think that this is just addressing legal. This is
not addressing hiring more people. Right. Okay. Well, the legal if we go with if we go with the in-house model, the legal does one other person. This is just this is just an amendment for legal costs projected through the
end of this the budget year. Okay. No matter what the model is, it no matter what the model, the resolution contemplates the various steps. What I suggest is you take them one at a time. Um we incorporated it because when you do the budget amendment, you don't want
to do three budget amendments. Um uh uh if if all you decide is that we just want to increase the legal services the legal services budget um to
allow for payment uh to Mr. Tivia's firm to the extent that uh they we've already inc heard those costs. That's that's fine and that's up to you. I think you should then consider whether or not you want to ratify the the
positional things that you have been informed about. And then the third component is whether you want to go in-house or not. So it's an ABC. You can take them one at a time if you want. Let's do the budget amendment first. Can you read that just the budget amendment
part in place? Paul, do you need to say something before we vote on the No, I just I don't know how we're if if it's really truly four pieces, why is it all under one amendment? Cuz I mean we can take a piece of it because I'm I'm not done. All right.
We We can just take a piece of it or we have to take it all. Well, they're all different. If you if you'll notice, they have different I think they're all I understand. They're all different. I mean, I got bullet points on every one. Right. So, the first the first section 202550 is just ratifying a budget
amendment that'll allow us to have legal in some form through the end of the of this. for the clarification. No, it madam, if I may, it has more than 2550 has three components to it. We do it in
one budget amendment because we can incorporate everything into one budget amendment. We don't want to go through three budget amendments to to get somewhere. Now you guys in your discussions you can give direction that
we want to approve this, we don't want to approve that. We can then amend the one budget amendment and take that all into consideration. It's a matter of timing and convenience. The subject matter is the budget amendment. Okay. So there's three
components to I I'm sorry, Paul. It it's a budget amendment that for legal code enforcement and the other staffing changes that have happened. It's a it's a budget amendment to allow for the expenditures that are necessary for the through the end of this fiscal
year. So it has nothing to do with with the inhouse or anything. Yeah. It just has to do with the changes that we've currently made in the bill we currently owe. 100%. Okay. Thank and having legal representation of some form right
between now and October. October. Yeah. So, can we read just that and do just that? 2020 202550. Can I have a motion for that? I'll make a motion to approve.
I think you have to read it. 25 2025-50. Okay. only as as I understand the motion you 2550 incorporates the three things as it's currently written that's what you want but not your contract what you want
to not my contract so if you approve 2550 as a whole you are approving the three components which are um an amount of money of $231,000
to be allocated ated towards legal services. Um the correction that I indicated 13 not 12 FTE with three part- timerrs and that you are going to move forward with
the in-house model. It allows it it doesn't necessarily mean it has to be don't but it it allows it it allows for those things to happen contract. No. My next then we could still go back to Glenn if he decided to say you can go to Glenn to somebody else. If we approve at this price, you can advertise the
position. Do we want to approve 13 full-time employees at town hall? Because that's included in that. Well, I think it's an up to it's a not to exceed. So, if we just it approves the ability for in-house counsel that is covered in the 13, right? And the and
the parallegal staff that's in the that quoted budget amendment, right? doesn't mean we have to fill it. It just it it encompasses everybody, you know, and the the the shift of the admin the the manager's admin assistant
to compensate for that. That's what I think that's what Lisa's concern is. Are you are you okay with expanding it? I'm only okay with approving the spending for legal. She's not okay with expanding the amount of employees or the potential for more employees. Yeah, that's should
be separated. Well, I can say that the from what I understand the the the individual who's handling and correct me if I'm wrong, you know, there's like one person that's a permit tech and this
this addition allows for an additional permit tech to take some of the weight because that permit tech is also staff all the time. that per that permitech is also doing all the RV program stuff and this and this and so I mean if if you
some stuff washes I don't remember the exact moving of the the shells but some stuff does watch you know you're eliminating part-time code enforcement staff so we have a full-time code enforcement staff so the part-time guy isn't here on the
weekend and can't meet on a Wednesday to write up his report and this and that. So there's been some, you know, uh that that's where the 13 and the was it nine, Jeff. Okay, we have a motion by Todd to approve. Do I have a Are you Are
you still making your motion to approve? We have a second by Marge. Okay. All in favor? I opposed. Opposed? Passes four to one. Okay. Next piece of it is, as I understand it, do we just choose Mr.
occurs with a parallegal for in-house. Do we advertise the position and ask Mr. Torsuvia if he's willing to um stay on until we fill which I believe you have indicated in the past Glenn that you
were willing to do until fill the position one way or the other. So the question I guess is that we're considering is do we do we just hire Mr. Curts based on this? Do we advertise for in-house or do we advertise for another
firm? Is that would that be accurate that those those are the three possibilities? Or you could advertise for both for both both a firm and inhouse and look at everything that comes together. So, let me ask you, if we do that, are you
willing to stay in the running for consideration if the advertising occurs or are you would you prefer to step back if if the um council's decision is to advertise because I think that's important for us to know. Uh I would have to think about
it. Okay. All right. Paul, do you had a question? Yeah. I I just think it's it's due diligence. I mean, I I I understand like you open a position, you offer the position, you know, we couldn't have posted a position that we didn't have, correct? We couldn't advertise to fill
up a spot that we didn't have prior to. So, now that we have the ability to then I I, you know, whether it be we, you know, advertise both ways. Maybe that's what and, you know, but Glenn still has an answer if he's going to stick around. He's over there. Well, you can shake
your hand. Stay for the some period of time. Not. Well, yeah. Not this time next year. GL. No increases. No increases. Only only reductions. Um Okay. So, is um Jeff staying as his position
that he has now, uh if we go out for um bit, yeah, everything would stay the same. Lee had her light on. Oh, sorry. At least I know how to use my light. I used my light this time and then we can come back to your question. So, I guess
um going back to the in-house question, I I have some concerns um regarding additional projected outside legal costs. Do do we have any understanding of what that would add on top of the annual um long-term liability that we'd be
taking on? I believe it's in the spreadsheet that that was prepared incor incorporated within the three the budget is just under $360,000. I think it's 359,845 on an annualized basis included within
there I think is $56,000 in potential um fees. So that's I saw that number. Um it that's realistic based on what has happened in the past or just industry kind of standard? Well, I think it's
realistic uh based on the uh amount of work that is out there. When you look at the current billing rate is $2425. All right. So for $360,000 you're getting about 1,500 hours.
um for the um if you get up to $400,000 um you're looking at about 1,800 hours of of time based on based on the the
last few years. When you look at what one attorney generally can bill, uh $1,500 is not an unusual or exorbitant amount. Um, I think the workload that uh is here can be handled by one attorney
with a good parallegal um to assist. And so what you're getting is um an equivalent amount of hours. The addition of $56,000 um within the budget provides you with
um somewhere in the neighborhood of uh 200 to 250 hours depending on the hourly rate. I'm basically using uh Mr. Toribia's rate of 242 to come up with those numbers. Now, the offset that
there would exist um because what's not included in those numbers is cost recovery numbers right now that's um paid for on a pass through basis. Um it's build to a third party. When you go to an in-house
model, you can still collect cost recovery um for the same review of projects and those kind of things. That was one of my questions. there and and so there is a potential offset to the expenditure side. I've estimated that at
25 to to $30,000 uh a year. Um, so in a perfect world, which we don't live in, and it's not realistic to assume, um, the budget that I'm suggesting would end up, uh, costing
the town about $270, $275,000. I think a realistic view is the 360 with um the $30,000 offset. So you'd be in the 330,000 net range for your legal services. Okay.
Yeah. Cost recovery was one of my questions. I I also question how independent um in-house council will be able to function and in particular the use of uh the parallegal for sort of other duties in in town hall. We know
that a lot of hats get worn around here. And um if you read the charter um the in-house attorney would have the sole um control over their quote department. So I I just those are just things to consider. Todd, I think you were next.
Yeah. Um so right now you're the project coordinator. Is that going to open a position where we have to fill that position or are you still going to take care of those things? No, I I would not be the town attorney and the the project coordinator. Um we're in the process of
discussing discussing reorganization um and we'll be presenting uh some reorganization uh to the to the council um during the the budget process.
um the exact roles and and functions um will potentially alter um the the first first
step of this is whether or not I would be the the town attorney and then that's a different reorganizational structure um with respect to the the rest of the organization if if that's the position that it would be in um as presently
contemplated um in the discussions that we've had there would be a project coordinator type of position whether it was exactly called that um not certain but that role would still exist. So I mean one of one of the downfalls of
having an employee think back to Underwood when we had Underwood management here we didn't pay for all these extra benefits right we didn't have FRS you know we didn't have you know when somebody leaves you know they get 20 weeks of severance pay you know those are the advantages of not having an employee you know when Glenn leaves
he that's it he gets paid what he gets paid and there's no severance package with him right so I mean there is a dis 20 weeks if you want me to no thanks I feel we love here, right? So, I mean, there is extra cost by having an employee, right? You know, you
got health insurance, you know, all these things that go into that. So, but at the same time, he's already here. He's already an employee. So, if we went with an outside counsel, we're still paying him to be here anyway. He's still an employee. Now, if we're having to
hire another employee to take over that position, well, then that changes, you know, that does start adding to our cost. So there's definitely an advantage by going with an outside counsel, but there's also an advantage he's sitting here at every one of our meetings already, right? He's here every single meeting that we wouldn't have to be
paying Glenn, right? So there's that efficiency. So yeah, there's kind of like the historical knowledge and legacy also been here for a while that there's all of that. So, um, but I think we kind of owe it to
ourselves to do our due diligence. I feel like we need to advertise the job. I think and I think we need to advertise it in a way that that we have both that we have the numbers for that we have that we advertise it to include in-house and
outside outside and and look at what's out there. You know, look, there was a time when nobody wanted to work in boxes. We may be we may be still in that situation. I don't know. I don't know if we are. Um, so we might want to before we start looking at our alternatives,
see what those alternatives really actually are in reality as opposed to in fiction. Yeah, you're probably looking at a 60 to a 90day process. If you're going to advertise, you want to advertise it probably out there for at
least 30 days. Um and then uh whichever model and bring people in for interviews and then you'd have to enter into a contract. So it's I'm sorry, Francine, go ahead. If you wish to advertise in the legal trade, I can't recall the name
of it, but it's $100 for 30 days and you get 100 words and each word over 100 is $1. So, the earliest, and I'm not sure what date the earliest would be that they could get it in there, but um it
would not be a quick turnaround if we were doing a legal trade advertisement. We can do it rather quickly and we can do it online at no cost through the Florida League of Cities, which does get a lot of traction. I sufficient for
everybody that you are aware of those. Yeah. Does the legal trade magazine not go online? Yeah. So the you get Yes, it does or it doesn't. Yes, it does. The bar and the So the classified classified
ad would go up even if it wasn't in the print publication, I guess. So I'm just not sure of the dates. That's all I'm telling you. I don't know what the dates will be, but I do know we can get it advertised on League of Cities as soon as we put it in online. I'm okay. Marge,
what do you think? Yeah. And uh I wanted to get an answer from u Jeff in uh reference to would you be staying um to the end of uh this year this
budget year um you know if um if you were not selected as the the council would you say as a project coordinator I guess is the question right I have to think about everything I'm not prepared to make that decision.
At this point in time, I don't know where the council is is going to go, what direction um anything's going to happen. I don't know anything. So, I'm not I'm not I'm not going I'm not going to make a commitment at this point in time one way
or another. You're you're going to apply and you're still trying to decide whether you would apply for the uh in-house position. Yeah, I would I was thinking about calling a recess in I would have to make I would have to I would have to think
about all that. Yeah. Okay. So, we have no answers. Well, I I don't want to put words in his mouth. I don't think he was going to quit right before Before Glenn quit, he wasn't quitting. He wasn't going anywhere, right? I think he likes the job here. He likes working with us. I
don't suspect he's going to go anywhere. Not to put you on the spot or something, but Right. So, I that's just my thought. So, can we make a motion to go win the lottery forward with an ad? Sign the contract. That could have happened tomorrow anyway. Okay. And can that and
and can and can we agree that it's going to be through the league of that we're going to do it in 30 days to try to expedite it for everybody's benefit for Glenn's benefit for Yes, Glenn. I see a couple of you wanting a recess. Can I make We're going to have recess as soon as Can I make a suggestion because I'd like to mention something to you offline
first before you make this motion. Okay. Okay. Let's have a recess. Motion to recess. Body break. Sorry guys. Um, no. Okay, we're going to come back to order. Everybody's had their bathroom break.
Hold on. Let us get back on the on the record, I guess. Yeah. We're live, just so you know. It's just not showing on the TV, but we are live on Well, how are we going to know when we're talking? Okay. I believe Mr. Torcivia has
something that he would like to uh weigh in on here. Okay. Um just some suggestions because, you know, obviously I've sat in this chair for six years and I know this is um not an easy chair to be in. It won't be easy for Jeff if you all select Jeff or whoever's going to
sit there. Um, sorry. Technic difficulties. They're working on it right now. Their live is just not coming over. It's We can't see it here. Is it not?
Okay. I don't know, but we're live. Okay. Thank you. And so, um, can you speak the microphone? I understand that the the whole advertising process, you never know what's going to happen. I can almost guarantee you you're going to pay more than either number that you're talking about here today because the
rate you're getting now is a relatively low rate compared to what rates are. You know, uh they're just going to be higher. I mean, you're going to be getting $300 an hour instead of 240 something an hour. Um and I don't know how much the level of work is going to change. Hopefully, it has. We've had this conversation about hopefully it
does, but you can't build a house on hope, right? So, um, you might want to think about, um, you know, if there's an interest on both sides of Mr. Curts being the town attorney, and I know he's talked about
three years, um, that maybe you try a shorter term and see if that would work out, maybe a couple of years. Uh, and if there's an interest in doing that, maybe that that's a solution. But if not, you know, the advertising, it'll take a while and you'll get a lot of firms. Not
a lot. You'll get a few firms. You might get a couple of individuals, probably some kids out of school. That's not who you're going to want. I mean, that's really I mean, I advertise for lawyers a lot. And I know what you're going to get is a lot of people that are one or two years out of school and they studied whatever they studied and now they think
they can just jump into this. So, um, so that's going to be my my two cents is, you know, if you're interested in Mr. Kurt serving as the town attorney for two-year period. I don't know whether he's going to accept that number either, but you know that seems to be a bit of a reduction from three years that
you had on the table. But you haven't answered a question. How long are you willing to stay? Look, I I I'll do this as long as you need me to. Um but I'm really not, for example, I have vacations planned in August. My son who's in the Coast Guard
is getting married in September. I'm not missing that. So, I may miss some meetings. Um, and um, you know, my staff is stretched in. You know, I've lost a person recently. So, you know,
I hate to say as short as possible, but but you know, as short as possible, but if you But I'm not going to go I'm not going to abandon you. That's not who I am. So, I will keep doing uh and obviously work with Francine to keep bills down um and do what has to be done, not everything that you want to
do. Because if you're going to make a change, probably better to have someone, whoever it is, whether it's Jeff or someone else new begin charting the course. You know, maybe it's more cleaning up the things that we've been working on. And so that's my suggestion is if you want to try for for a two-year
period of time, maybe that's somewhat less than the three years, maybe that's not acceptable. But I'm trying to be a matchmaker. At least I did that in high school pretty well. So try it again now. Anybody have anything to say? My my thought is
if we don't go with Jeff in house, then we don't go in house period. That's my thought. I I agree with that. So that's really the decision that we're making tonight. Right. So well So Jeff, are you willing to take something less than three years? I don't know what two
years would do. I would think a year. But um I hate to put you on the spot, but this is where we're at, right? We're on the spot, too. So, um there if I were to take this position,
um I would make changes in my life, including where I reside right now. I reside in Martin County. I've got an hour commute
one way. I, you know, I come out of these meetings and I go, "God, I'm hope I'm going to be home by midnight." Um, so if I was going to make that kind of commitment
to make that move, um, I would want an equivalent commitment knowing that the contract gives you certain rights to to terminate and me
certain rights to to terminate. So, um that would be my my answer. Would you consider two years as enough of a commitment from the council? There is, you know, I've I think I've
told you all this is a 20week contract. That's you guys can get out of it anytime um with a a 20we um decision. Um if I were to, you know, I mean, think
think about it yourself. if you're going to to move and and make those kind of commitments, um I think three years is is reasonable. So, that's where it's at. I mean, I I I
get what you're saying, but I mean, I also, you know, if this wasn't even if if Glenn 30 days from ago hadn't said, I'm resigning, right? Yeah. We'd be moving forward with our reorganization that we would had. you would still be
the project coordinator. There'd be a reorganization that we are contemplating bringing to you. Um, right. And uh um we would be bringing that to you. With this position in in limbo um it makes us
difficult to make those um budgetary uh suggestions to you. Everything is going to be in the alternative. Um, so those are things that I would have to think about. Uh, the other uh the
manager would have to think about as to how we're going to to present things. So, well, I guess I, you know, from our our end of things, sign a three-year contract. Oh, yeah. There's a 20 20we buyout, right,
on our end. But if eight months from now you're like, "No, this is what was I thinking." Yeah. You know, there's no there's no Yeah. So that it's kind of like a it's new waters for everybody, right? Well, I mean, you you've done municipal law for a long time, so I
guess it's not too new for you, but it's new, you know? I guess it's my point, you know? Right. And I you know, I respect all of all of you. I respect this process and everything, you know. Um this process is is something that we
have to do in a public environment. It ends up being uncomfortable um for for everybody. Um I met with uh four of you. I offered to meet with all five of you.
Um, and we're in we're in public. So, I can tell you this is the first time I'm hearing any issue from anybody about a three-year contract.
Okay. So, I didn't say I had an issue, and I actually asked this question yesterday. if you want to be totally out. I didn't say I had an issue or anything, but I I did oppose the question. Would you be you because you said no, I wouldn't be willing to do an interim basis or whatever. I said, well, what about what about a year versus
three years just to, you know, test the waters on both ends and whatever. So, I'm I'm not saying anything that I didn't say before. I'm not I'm not I'm not saying I had an issue, whatever. I'm just asking questions based on the conversation that we're having because the five of us can't meet outside this
room. So, I know. And that's that's one of the issues and and so we try to meet individually um you know um well and I think question about the shorter term I would prefer I would
prefer a three-year contract. I haven't been offered anything else. So I would I would you know that's that's this is the this is you know the issue
of of trying to do this in public and all those kind of things. I have to be open and honest and you have to be open and honest. Anybody have any questions? Anybody have anybody like to make a motion? Anybody want to I'd like to say push this to a
special meeting or something and and come back and just consider this so that we can try to get through the rest of the agenda items. I know it's pushing it further away, but it it's not something that I would like to make a motion that we move forward with advertising as we discussed before the break.
Is there a second to that? I'll second it. All right. So, but let me let me add something here um to the motion. Do you need to bring something back for us to vote on for that process to continue or can you just run with that? I can just
advertise to non- attorney. Um what I did last time because I did it when we hired Glenn, I advertised for an individual or firm and um it was actually a letter of interest that we saw. Um I think you were on council at
the time. No, no, no. That was just after um so we did a letter of interest and we advertised it and we got only firms. We did not get any individuals. Well, we only got firms. Who was the attorney that was like out in Belglade
or something? Yes, it was still his firm and his son actually has that now. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So my thought was if we had to come if she had to bring something back to us, maybe we could come back in a week, right? And maybe maybe he would have
time to think about it, she would have something that she could present to us, move forward with this motion. I can do that. So we'll have call a special meeting in a week to decide whether we're going to vote or we're I'm fine with just moving forward with an ad.
I I don't see any need to to keep rehashing this. I'm sorry. What were you asking? Lisa wants to just move forward with that. What What would that would give him the right that the opportunity for a week, but if we don't have to come back, then it's really we would only be coming back
for his what he was willing to do. So, I I was just hoping that there was some kind of something we would have to vote on. Thought we were going to be doing our due diligence before the break. So, I'm I'm fine with my motion that There's a second. You're my second.
Yeah. Yeah. I would like to think that regardless of us advertising that Jeff would still want to keep his his hat in the in the you know keep his application. I mean confidence in it. Well, I mean I mean it's part of the
process is due diligence. I mean I got Well, yes, but everybody's got a right to um their perspective. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, so, so I mean it's just something to consider that he may consider this a vote of no confidence in him and his abilities and he may walk
away and we may not get an individual and we know Torivia is leaving and we may be voting ourselves into doubling our legal expenses or significantly increasing them. So I just want us to consider the full picture before we vote on this issue. That's all I'm saying. I know the hourly rate we get from Glenn.
I said that can't be right when somebody told me. Yeah. Right. I'm like that can't be right. It's got to be more than that. So, so we may pay more. We we we are going I if we don't if this suspicion from the people who do legal advertising
all the time is that we're not going to get qualified individuals if we all agree that we have a qualified individual, right? And that we're not going to get any other qualified individuals. And and the understanding is that on a probably 90% certainty any
other firm that comes in is going to charge considerably more than we have. What we may be doing right now and I just want to I'm just putting it out there on the table. What we may be doing right now is voting ourselves into significantly higher legal fees. So I just want to put that out there. That's
all. Yeah, I think we'll get qualified respondents. The fee will be higher. There's no doubt about that. But I would hope that Jeff But he might not. I would I would hope so, too. I just want to put all the cards on the
table. That's all. I mean, I assume I want anybody to be surprised. I assume he could apply as a firm also, right? Not as an employee. So, that's an option, too. Or not. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Do we have a vote? All in favor?
I I opposed. I passes 4 to one. Madame Mayor, just a housekeeping question. Since I gave the notice and my contract technically will expire I think tomorrow. Um
I'm not sure if you want to have a motion to extend it for 30 or 60 days just so we have some relationship that continues. What is the obligation for advertising? 30 days, right? Isn't it? Is there an obligation for a length of time? I mean, we can do this every 30 days if you want to take 60 days, but
let me and if you hire somebody, they may need a little time to come on board as well. So, you know, 30 days is fine. 60 days is fine. Make motion for 60 days. I'd second that. All in favor? I I passes five to zero. All right, we're on
to item number 16. Valerie. Consideration of approval on resolution number 202556, a resolution of the town council of the town of Lockxahhatche Groves, Florida, adopting a proposed operating millage rate of 4.00 0000 for
general operating budget purposes for fiscal year 2025 2026 recognizing the rollback millage rate for fiscal year 2025 2026 approving and authorizing transmitt of the form DR420 to the property appraiser providing for the
establishment of and setting forth the date time and place of the public hearing to consider the fiscal year 2025 2026 proposed millage rate and tenative budget providing for conflicts providing for severability and providing for an effective date. Uh these next three
items um are probably just a standard they're easy to talk about in in one uh presentation. Um what the staff is suggesting with respect to
preliminary trim. This is not the final vote on trim or anything else like that. This is the preliminary trim. This sets the highest rate um that you can establish these things at. You can go lower, but you can't go higher. Um
with respect to the millage rate, we're suggesting that that um be adopted on a preliminary basis at four mills. With respect to um the solid waste collection services, we're s suggesting that um
would be at um $450 a unit, which is the same rate as last year. With respect to uh the um district assessment rate, we're talking
about uh a increase of $100 um a unit, which would u mean that someone who had five acres instead of paying $1,000 of assessment would would
pay uh $1,500. um those the rate increase of um $100 on the assessment would be the equivalent of about $750 $750,000 in revenue. Um a
one mil increase um would be the equivalent of about uh $689,000 um in revenue to the to the town. Why those numbers are significant is we face we believe we're going to face the same
basic issue that we faced last year which and when you look at the operating um budget on your road and drainage fund um you're at a $600,000 to $700,000
uh deficit. Um we are working on on putting together um programs that might minimize that. Um but that's going to be the neighborhood of the problem that you you've faced last year. Um that was
faced by transferring $600,000 um from uh the general fund to the uh road and drainage fund. At this point in time, at the end of
this year, we are anticipating that your reserves will be at that 25% level. That's the lowest um suggested level for the reserves in your general
fund and your your road and drainage fund. Um, and what we what we think is, you know, you you've heard the the news on
appropriations. Um, we do not have any money uh to expend on next year's capital um budget. At this point in time, we may be
in a situation of finishing up this year's projects. those are funded. Um but we're not going to have money for uh any capital next year. Um for that
reason um you know we want to have you set the preliminary trim rates at a position in which this council has flexibility to deal with that uh funding um issue. Now, you might find other ways
to deal with it, but if you limit your potential revenue stream at this time, um, then it makes those options and flexibility difficult to and just to reiterate, whatever we set it at today is the highest that we can go, but we can always go down from here before our
final vote. But if we if we put it in at a lower amount and discover that we want to go back up to those numbers, we can't. So, it's better to put it in at these rates now and then have ear off of them as we come up with solutions over the next few months. Okay. And the the
one last thing I want to point out with respect to to this situation is for a millage rate to keep your millage rate at at three three mills. It's probably going to take a unanimous council to go above 3 mills. It's going to take a a
unanimous council in the end. not to set the preliminary trim, but to actually adopt uh a trim rate uh at those levels. Form you mean at no a preliminary trim rate and all these preliminary rates can
be set on a 3-2 vote to adopt a millage rate of three mills just staying where you are. It's going to take a unanimous vote to raise that millage rate. But it had to be over 110% to require a unanimous vote. it will be um when you
look at when you look at the numbers from it's a roll back rate and the roll back rate is I think 2.708 or something like that um and uh with respect to to the assessments that um can be increased on
a 3 to2 vote. Just want to set the parameters for for what you're going to have to to deal with. No more question. That was a question about the the assessment on the second. So, we need to do them individually. Who wants to make a motion on item number 16? We'll make a
motion resolution 2025-56 with a 3.0 mil. Second with a 3.0, not a 4.0. No, no, no, no, no. Well, that's what he just said. Pay attention. Okay. I withdraw. I'll second it.
So, I think there's a contract. We can save a lot of money there. I I understand you're basing all this on getting rid of the sheriff's contract and I don't want to put us in a situation where we have we got to take a look at things. I don't want to set the rate lower now and not have you said it at 30 at 3 now. We have no place to go.
I understand. I'm just I'm telling you where I'm looking to be when we get to the final vote. I understand. But if you you guys could get to four tonight. Comments not allowed this. We're having our We need to allow public comments before you vote. We haven't voted yet. We haven't voted. We're having a
discussion, Mr. Suit. Thank you. So, I'm just telling you where I'm going to be at when the time comes, right? And it's going to take all of us to get to three. So, I don't want to set the expectations any different from that. I'm with you. I
seconded it. Paul, anything to say? Well, I mean, I I I understand what you're saying, but I also understand that over the past few years that the military, eight years, the mills haven't increase at all and
other councils delved into the reserves to be able to pave roads and to give this level of service that now everybody's accustomed to, right? I get all that. I I get what you're saying. I know where you're going with, but why why would you
why would you jeopardize the ability if we find in two months that we can't do your plan or whatever or you come forward with a plan and we we find we can't do that or we can't work that way and we and we need to or we can't come up with money somewhere else. This is a
prelim preliminary. It's not the set number. So why would you want to I know where we can get the money. Okay. So, if you know where we can get the money, then it's no big deal, right? It's not saying that it's going to be 40. I'm saying I know where we can get the money
to have it at three. I understand that, Todd. What I'm saying is there the there there is no We can vote on my motion and it fails and the three of you go with four and it passes tonight. But I'm just telling you where my expectations are when we get to
the end. And I and I love your expectation. Yeah, if you can get it to three and keep it at three, awesome. I think we're all in agreeance on that. But I think I agree with you, Paul. Not tying our hands. Yeah, I I don't I wouldn't tie our hands. Should we vote on if it fails? Can you guys do Let's let our
public comment happen and then we'll vote on your You're welcome. Madame Mayor, council Manishu 3765. I think this budget process should be different. I like what you just said. There should be no mysteries. There should be no increase
in the millage rate and I agree with that assessment. You know why? We have lot of waste and and other things that we can improve and and with this vote today, you are sending a message to our residents who are watching and they will be watching 10,000 more times. You are sending a message to this management on
how to plan. If you keep it a mystery, if you keep it a mystery which our prior councils have done, it's a wastage. It's a waste of everybody's time including fact and other people and it it's not right. So give a clear guidance and I
will tell you that uh we have committed our town cash for FEMA and other grants uh we which we haven't received any reimbursement. We have to tighten our cash. We our reserves are depleted as you just heard. We are still hiring full-time people which I don't
understand why we should at this time. We need to cut cost. The costs are out of control. If you look at per resident cost of service, compare it to any town, compare it to five bestrun town, we are out of control. And and the problem is it's a small town. We have to wear
multiple hats. We have to reorganize our team. So the direction to the town manager, direction to every level should be come up with a budget and manage within this budget. That's it. So thank you so much. It should be a we should be able to do within three uh millage point
because our property values have still appraised by 8.5%. So I think if I'm not correct you still have some room and we should be able to cut some cost and capital budgets have not been spent for 2024 and 2025. So you
have some money left in those budget in those accounts as well. So thank you for clarifying and be clear upfront. Please don't keep it a mystery. Thank you, mayor. Sure. Yes, ma'am. For the record, I just wanted to say that that was inaccurate. We have not diverted any of
our capital funds. We have gone over the capital funds and we will be going over them in an agenda item following this. So, the capital plan is intact. There are not leftover funds. Second of all, in all of the years
audits that we have had, the only times that we have gone over the budget that had to be reported in the audit were with regard to legal and planning, which both are outside contracts and they are driven most often by activities that are
directed publicly or are outside of anyone in this chamber's control. for instance such as um you know uh land use applications and so on and so forth. So
um we are at the 25% reserves. We have stated for the last 5 to seven years that systemically the town's financial structure is imbalanced.
Um, our revenue streams did not ever match the expenditures required for the maintenance of the town's facilities until we started getting OPM, other people's money. Um, we did not maintain
our facilities or start the process on drainage. For the record, the only capital projects that were done were funded externally by developers and we used all of our gas tax for the drainage
projects prior to my arrival. We used the sir tax and the gas tax and we had an audit on it for the road repairs of which 10 miles were ojim roads that were required by a loan covenant to be
repaved three or four years earlier than we overlaid them. And then once the paving was on the table the areas were expanded by vote of the council. I'm not
pleased that we move forward with those without drainage, but when I became manager and when we hired our public work staff, we focused all of our efforts on drainage and we sought monies from the state for drainage. We have
received several million dollars from the state and became designated as a rural community, meaning that we did not have to do any matching for that money. And that means that we did not have to match over a million dollars to do the
drainage. We have endeavored to do that drainage. We have it in process right now. The money that we had for requested from the appropriation was for drainage. If we do not look at correcting the
structural imbalance of the town and its dependent district, we will have no capital program. this year or future years. We cannot borrow and grants can only be awarded if you have shovel ready projects which means
that you do the engineering work. Now we have been fortunate to get planning grants and our vulnerability assessment that's just wrapping up will help us get construction grants out of resilient Florida. But quite honestly, no amount
of cost cutting is going to fix the current and future structural imbalance with the budget. If you take a look at the capital projects, which we will very shortly, um many many millions of dollars and none of them are bright
ideas. They are all things that have been left for us to correct from the past. Um there's a lot of subdivision drainage, historical drainage as we call it that has not been maintained. Um there is provision by law that we have
to maintain it yet our code conflicts with that. These are the kind of issues that we need to focus on. So that is why last year and this year we're recommending setting trim at four mills. Not because we want to be at four mills,
but because we want to give the community and the council an opportunity to assess, and I used the wrong word, an an opportunity to evaluate whether we wish to have a higher millage that will then collect more money from commercial
properties because that's what a higher millage would do. or whether we want to um keep it at 3 ms and increase our assessments much higher than we have previously
assessed them. right now. If we were looking at the budget with absolutely no change and not the big cut that um council member McClendon is suggesting, we have about the $6 to $800,000 of a deficit
sitting in the roads and drainage fund. That's where all the action happens. That's from maintenance. That's not with new employees. That's with existing employees. We are looking at reorganizing to see if there's any possible way that we can do without some
of the employees we currently have. This is not about efficiency and I am all for the efficiency especially if you were here when I started versus till now. I'm all in. But it's like going on a diet. At some point in time you go below a
certain level of intake. You start to affect your health and nutrition. you chase after the efficiency and you start to reduce effectiveness. So I think really we have to set ourselves up in a position where we have
flexibility before we vote on the final notice because you know before we vote on the final race because if we want to do any capital this year if we wish to continue any of the drainage work we will need to get the funding somewhere.
I've also provided all of you with seven years of our history and we've remained flat and I've given you comparables to other communities. Okay. Todd, do you have something to say before we vote? Yeah. So, even if we went with the four, we're not going to have the money that we've had for the past eight years with
the local option sales tax and all that. All of those projects that were done with paving the 20 miles and all that, that's not happening anyway, right? That money is gone, right? So, so no matter what, to say that we're not going to give the same level and what these people expect, they're not getting it
anyway. Even at four, it's not happening. We won the lottery and we got eight years of money coming in, we're back to our regular budget now. And that's all there is to it. That's the way I see it. There's a line item that we can a contract we can get rid of and that'll let allow us to do the 3 mil and
we're back to where we were. That those free money, those free funds that come in, we just heard it tonight. We're getting nothing from Tallahassee, right? All of it got cut. Not half of it, not 20%, all of it got cut. Not yet, but for the moment. Yeah. Yeah. So, for that
part of the budget, it's gone, right? We might get some somewhere else. And I don't think we should count on money from somewhere else to continue the operation here. Those funds are like f found money the way I see it, right? And we we need to take care of ourselves
here in town. And I think we can do that by getting rid of a contract. I I don't disagree with you. You and I have talked about this for many years prior to to sitting here together. I don't disagree with you. What I do disagree with is that we don't have the
flexibility. And I'm the last one to want to pay more taxes. And look, I only live on two and a quarter acres, so it's not going to affect me the same way it's going to affect all four of you, right? I I I get that. I I get that totally. But the reality is, I mean, where where
where do we pull the money for the drainage project that's going on right now with the with all four culverts? Where's that money coming from? Came from the state of Florida. Okay. So, yeah, found money, but it was in the budget. We knew it was coming. It was in the budget. So, we pulled that project,
right? I mean, so are we going to be able to maintain the mowing and the grading and the repair of the drain, all the all the little the catch basins that need to be done and all that? Did it for a long time?
You realize the reason we're replacing the four coverts that we're replacing right now is because for decades they were gone untouched and a former person that was running the district well before this was a town was not maintaining stuff. But we did it before now. Okay. Okay.
So, so we'll just take the vote. I don't see why. But I mean, Todd made a motion. Did Todd make it or did you do Julie leave? Todd made a motion to uh to to lower the millage rate, the recommended millage rate to 3.0 from 4.0. Lisa
seconded. All in favor? I opposed. I fails 3 to2. Would somebody like to make another motion? I recommend that we have the flex I make a motion that we have the flexibility of 4.0 that we can change when it comes to
the hearing time. So second. All in favor? I opposed. Opposed. Let's go a little lower. For the record, who who opposed this last motion? It was for four, right? But
who who opposed it? The three of us, Todd, Anita, and I opposed. Okay. Now we're looking for something maybe in the middle. Can I make that suggestion? Did somebody make that motion? Oh, I move it's 3.5.
Second that. We had no phone calls last year on four. Second. Okay. All in favor? I Okay. Opposed. Okay. That one passes 3 to two. 3.5. Who are the two that opposed? Mr.
McClendon and Lisa. Just so you know, we are preparing the budget with 3.0. We are not preparing the budget with anything higher. I I understand. Okay. I just want to be clear for this. It's just an emergency contingency as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to I mean I I can't say I'm
going to vote right now, but I'm I'm all about leaving it at 3.0, I know, but I just want to just in case your strategy doesn't work and our plan doesn't work out. Okay. Uh item number 17, I'll make a motion to to approve resolution
2025-54 as written. Second. All in favor? I I going to let anybody discuss it? No. From the public. Oh, sorry. Any public comment on the trash rate? I'm sorry. Sorry. We're good. It's kind of is what
it is, right? I mean, public comment there. There's no public comment any that passed five to zero. Okay. I guess want to pass. All right. We're going to now recess this meeting. Readjourn as a water control district and we have another resolution to look
at. This one is regarding the um assessment rate the maintenance and repair for the water control district. believe there is a number in here, right? Well, let's see. 2025 DD07.
Yeah, but is there a recommended number of 300? 300. Okay, that's the recommended number and it's right now at 200. Correct. Correct. Can we have some discussion about Well, let's discuss what other improvement districts around us are at. Yeah. So, Indian Trail does
$1,100. They do water and roads, which is probably about the most similar to us, right? And what are they an acre last year? Last year they were 947. This year's proposed, and these are average numbers, is $1,100. It was a 13%
increase overall. Most units have an increase of $118. And then the other units range from $11 to $230 per unit of an increase. So we would be
um if we went to 300 we would be roughly a quarter of their assessment and our increase would be comparable to their increase from last year to this year. I'd also point out that from 2021 till
today, their assessment doubled um and in certain single years they had 20 to 40% increases and Acme which is Wellington and Wellington is similar but different
because they have many many many sources of revenue to offset the road costs but their road and drainage is also integral to one another. They had a rate of $200
um in 2017 and they are currently proposing $275 thou $275 a unit, but they've created a subunit for Palm Beach Polo, which is about $8
more. So they've increased um incrementally from last year to this year $20 and from the year before to the year before $25 from the year before $30. If we go to
Northern Northern Improvement District's average is um they've they've averaged a 26% increase since 2021. and they expect their 26 numbers to be
similar to their 25 numbers. Um, but if they stay with the similar numbers, it would be roughly a 30% increase since 2021. and Jupiter Farms and what is their theirs is not comparable to us
because they have different units and so you can't actually look at anything comparable there and their largest lot is but their increase is 30% right Jupiter farms those properties are less in size than us however they are most
comparable as council member McClendon said because they have two components roads and drainage and they and 21 were $356 per unit and they were last year $576
per unit and that increase was obviously almost double. Um this year um they haven't released any numbers yet but it would appear that they would have at least a 2 to 5% increase. Um so everyone
around us has been making these are all better funded organizations. These are all better maintained infrastructure and so on. They're not catching up in the way that we are on deferred maintenance and infrastructure in some cases for
decades in some cases for close to a century. So, we have recommended rate increases since 2019 and the FAC also supported those until last year. So, I I give you that.
Um, that's where the money is in the improvement district. And furthermore, some of you might recall that we did a study. and it was never completed because the council was not they did not embrace the idea of um you know coming
up with a different assessment model but that is an option for us and we actually prepared with uh Glenn's office's help an RFP that would go out and look at revisiting our financial structure um
once we finish our vulnerability assessment and water control plan. But that is probably more information that you wanted. But we have not kept pace with our needs and we have artificially kept the rate lower by using
other people's money and reserves. Does anybody else have any questions before I take public comment? I think the thing to keep in mind too is the only one out of I'm not sure what nor which one northern is but the only one really comparable to us is that was
listed there would be well honestly in types of lots and stuff I think acme even though it's larger I mean they but they're subsidized by the village so you know they're broadly subsidized by the village which a high
much higher density right so they're getting more per capita per you know square foot so to speak. Jupiter Farms there's some large format properties but again it's like it strictly a volume thing with those guys and they're charging more than we're
charging a lot. So a lot more um and again I don't want to pay more money. I'm against paying more money, but I mean that's what we've been I' I've noticed that a trend over the, you know, the years is, yeah, nobody wants to we don't want to pay more, but we want to get the same stuff that they're getting
next door. But, you know, next door is dealing with, you know, we we're dealing with what 3,500 people, not that many properties. You have so much acreage, you know, and I I don't know. It's it's it's a tough tough
thing. just just at the one pump station that has been there for longer than I'm alive that um we have been applying for grants for to get it retrofitted. They tell us it's going to cost us less money to rebuild a new pump station. We can't
put we in for less than a million dollars to hold the water in the north. So, it's beyond just the same old maintenance that we did before. We're either fixing the drainage or we're not. And we are trying to partner with every
agency we can locally and at the state level and federally. Federally, we didn't work out this year, but at least we put our toe in that water. So, I just want it all on the record because we come forward every year and we say it. We do capital plans that include some of
it. I don't want to be fiscally irresponsible. So I have to tell you but how we proceed that is open to a wide range of discussion. Lisa um since you brought up we didn't Mr.
Peters come up with a design for we um he came up with a number of maybe 250 a we No I didn't say number I said a design. Didn't he come up with a design? Nothing that we could actually implement. Nothing that could be used
for a grant. I see. For looking for grant money. So you have to do something like DOT standard roads to get grant money. So it has to be so over the top that it's a million dollars. I think it needs to be shovel ready is what I think it needs to be. So we don't have
anything shovel ready. Okay. Um I I agree that if we're going to put an increase somewhere, and I'm with Paul. I don't want to pay another dime. Um, at least the acreage assessment hits everybody, the nonprofits, everybody
pays this one. Um, but I will not agree to any increase unless we task the finance committee with a cost reduction uh recommendation. Uh, I'd like to see them independently look at at the budget that way.
Okay. Public comment. Miss Suchi, Cassie Sushi. Um, thanks for mentioning that. Um, of all the taxes, the acreage assessment would affect everybody equally. So, I think we all know that. Um,
I think $100 is a huge increase. I don't know if this is being done, so it gives us the discussion leeway or it's final. I can understand opening things up. I do think that our town has a spending issue. Um, spending on a lot of things
that maybe don't need to be spent on. And right now, I don't have examples. I mean, we've had signs and things like cameras and things like that. Could that money have been used other places? So maybe having some type of review might help you guys make a better
decision. I know there's a lot of people in this town that live on fixed incomes. Um, and it's going to hit them really hard if they own a lot of land. They may be forced to sell. I don't know. And I know you all understand that because you
guys have 5, 10, you know, two, five, 10, 15 acres, whatever. So, um, as long as it gives us a leeway and we proceed cautiously and look at some of the spending, but I think $100 if we make that big jump is going to be huge and
it's going to hit some people really, really hard. But of all the taxes, I think the assessments for the land is the better one more equally. So, Mr. S. All right. Manishu 3765 EOD you know one
important stakeholder who is missing in this discussion today is our residents and I will tell you you know I was told last year that the town sent a survey to people to say would you be happy with the tax increase and 10 people respond
yes sir and I and that is the most um mundane and stupid exercise I've ever seen in in in studying math and human behavior that's never the way to do it. But you know what? If you want to know how our people are doing, go to the feed store. I wouldn't name them, but you
know who I'm talking about and talk to them. And I talk to them. You ask them how is our town doing, they will tell you that people are not buying feed for their animals and they are worried how they are feeding their animals today. You want to talk about residents. Talk to any family. I talk to people, they're
worried about holding their they're not paying their medical bills because they want to save some money somewhere else. So our farmers are struggling with the feed prices and what's going on in the economy. The job market is not good. It's not good for right now. It's not good. It may come up with the new
budgets and all the things that new administration is doing may be doing but right now this is the worst time to increase taxes. So so just to set the record pack I was vice chair last year. We never recommended any tax increase
not any assessment increase. We did not. Only thing we recommended increase was we balanced the budget on the uh trash removal because it was costing money. So the fee was not properly set. But we never recommended at least as far as I
remember. So in conclusion uh any decision you take today is going to force people to sell their homes, their farms. I know people personally who are selling their farms right now because they can't take it anymore. You you will be seeing more sales sign. So if you want to protect this town, people on
fixed income, retirees, people on salary and farmers, you need to please for this year, you need to cut costs. If the economy improves and things happen, then that's a different story, but right now is not the time to increase any taxes. Thank you,
Todd. So I'm going to argue against my lower millage thing. The acreage assessment affects everybody equally. If I went to a we went to a four mill, it probably cost me an extra 10 or 15 dollars on my taxes, right? Because I've got homestead agricultural
classification, right? So raising the millillage affects us a lot different. The residences where the commercial would pay a lot more, right? So, but when we do the acreage assessment, it is equal. So, they're paying a lot less by doing it that way. However, the way I
see it is if we increase the acreage assessment, those funds have to be used for what? Roads. drainage, which is what what you were arguing about, right? Those are the issues we have. So, I'm fine with increasing that. I don't know if I'm fine to go to $300, but I'm fine
with increasing it because those funds have to be spent on our priorities, which is roads and drainage. Yeah, I just I I look to keep the conversation open. That's the whole thing, you know. I mean, I I lest anyone think I was yelling at Todd. I think
that's how we that's how we that's how we talk. So, but you know, I just I I just I like to keep I would like to keep the make sure we keep the conversation open so that way we have room to move if we need to move. Um, you know, because and and I get it. You know, listen, that
percentage the county tax on that doesn't change. It just goes up with the value, right? That goes up all the time unless you're homesteaded and you're locked in here. So, yeah, it it taxes have, you know, gone up exponentially over the past few years.
The problem is we haven't, you know, previous councils have opted to maintain the status quo and not do anything. So now we're behind the eightball and unfortunately we are stuck with this task. So right and and we've known for like I mean when
was I last chair of the fact I mean I I don't know if you remember me standing up but two years in a row saying that that loss tax was going away. you know that laws tax way and we needed to start thinking then right about what was three years out which is why I started
speaking about it then like that you know it it was like the ARPA it was kind of like found money but it's was $350,000 of our budget that you know like we had at the benefit of when I started talking about it three more years of it but now it's gone and so
nobody did anything to put money away or plan ahead or strategize and I think that's I believe that's the point staff is making is that you know we haven't taken actions that we needed to take. It wasn't that we weren't forward thinking.
We were talking about it you know but nothing happened. Nothing came to fruition. So, um, you know, I agree with you that I I I personally like this as the place to raise if we're going to raise because I I'm all about everybody
paying equally about fairness and equality and and I mean I to me and this is something that affects us all, you know, exactly the same and and I think we're all in this together, right? Everybody's in it to support the town together. And, you know, Mr. And I will
tell you that I've had a number of people contact me and say they're all about tax increases. So I I I had stand right up there. Yeah. We've had people stand up here and say it. So although it may not be something that you are personally in favor of, it's not something I'm personally in favor of.
There are a lot of people in this town that say raise our taxes. We want these services. We want this level of service and and we want to raise our taxes to get it. So, I understand that that's that's not everybody, but there are people that do feel that way. So, I just
want to back it up. Can I have a motion regarding this um resolution? Well, and correct me if I'm wrong, Jeff. Three can pass this $1,000 an acre. Oh, yes. Three. There's no supermajority or anything. Well, and this isn't the final, right? We still have the hearing,
but even I'm just But I'm just clarifying this is this is just setting a limit, right? max limit just like the previous. Okay. And with respect to the final vote on this one, it's a 3-2 vote as well that could pass it. Hopefully, it would be, you know, whatever you guys
determine, but 32 passes the assessment rate. Okay. Would you like to make a motion, Mr. Coleman? I'll make a motion to approve because it is, you know, it's it's a limit. Oh, yeah. I guess
at 300 at 300 an acre. Yeah, for purposes of of having room to move. I mean, do I have a second? Second. All in favor? I I opposed. I oppose and still stick with my fact recommendation. Okay,
it's three to two. I think we do need to I mean, I agree with you. I think we need to make a fact recommendation, but based on um I I think we need to really think about that and be very specific about what our recommendation so that it's specifically followed because
things um last year were very kind of all over the place and I need I think we're looking I think the recommendation you made in my opinion was too broad. I think we need to be very specific about what it is that we're asking them to do so that they're tasked with doing something. And I know that my fact
member personally has approached me with a great deal of frustration lately um because they feel like um well he feels like um things are kind of offthe-wall and a little bit on person based on personal agendas of other committee
members and so I well I'm just telling you what my committee member told me so I'm reporting that back and um so I want to make sure that when we make future I I'm requesting a consensus that we make future recommendations the fact that we're very specific about what it is
that we're recommending. Paul, yeah, I I I get wanting to drill down on things. I I I really do. I mean, and and you know, try and dig out where where the issue is. But I think at at the at at the
beginning level, I think the budget needs to be established and then we can or at least close and working toward that goal and then then drilling down and going, "Okay, this is where, you know, we're missing the we're missing the mark here. Why are we missing the mark?" You know, can you please? Yeah. I
I doubt it's I doubt it's $5,000 in training. You know what I'm saying? I I doubt things like that is is where it is. I think, you know, maybe and maybe listen, maybe we you know, maybe it is in in Glenn's seat because we put too much on Glenn that we shouldn't have put
on Glenn. We being the council, you know, I wasn't here, but you know, you know what I'm saying? So maybe it needs to be a a broad thing and then and then drill down. I believe staff's recommendation was that we that both the
FAC and us be given the budget and to to look at, right? This the staff prepared budget to look at and and then like two weeks after we were given it to have a joint council um back meeting like we did last year.
And um at that point and you had dates and everything too when when we talked about it. Um and and then um at that point we would hopefully we would have had a couple of weeks to digest. They would have had a couple of weeks to digest and at that meeting we could give very specific recommendations about what
it is that we're looking for and and try to provide some kind of consensus. So you know my thought would be to to wait until then to give specific direction and not have it be kind of loosey goosey but whatever. Lisa, I couldn't at the top of my head pull
from the meeting where you made the statement that our committee should be functioning independently. And I know from some of the past FAC um conversations with members I've had, the frustration of getting answers from
staff has been very difficult. Um I say we cut them loose, let them dig through it as much as they want and come back with their recommendations. They have to function independently that way. But the broader issue is we have to come up with a budget. We have to pass a budget within a couple months. We we
don't I don't have a problem with them drilling in after we've come up. I would tell you that these fact members have asked repeatedly to meet more often. They've asked for information regarding overtime. They've asked for information on the number of employees.
I'm just going off the top of my head. They've asked about there's no policies on pdiums when people are traveling and expenses that way. There's no oversight on the credit card spending from, again, this is what I've heard from fact people. So, I say let them drill down as
an independent entity, as as community members that have a vested interest and what gets done. I I I get that. I'm not saying that that's not a thing that shouldn't be, but I at this point in time, we're we're coming up on the
budget. We're not sitting here in October after the budget's been passed. people asked to meet all year long and were thwarted from meeting. Okay. So, it doesn't really matter that the timeline is now. I say turn them loose. Let them at it. If they get it done before the budget's over, that's that's we have.
But I think the problem is we're not the the the the budgetary part of the of the thing isn't happening, right? It's all about drilling down, which I get. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. What I'm saying is we are coming up on the end of the fiscal year and we're going
to have to adopt a budget. And if we don't have that focus in mind, we're going to have an issue. After that's done, drill in all you want. If we say this is our budget for next year, if we if they find money and we can save money that way, perfect. That's fine. I didn't say there was a time limit on it either.
I'm saying turn them loose. Let them do their thing. But then they're not going to come back with a budget. That's what I'm saying. After I'm not saying they're coming back with they don't come back with a budget anyway. It comes from staff. It goes to them. They're supposed to nod their head yes or no. And then it comes to us. That's what we want. We want recommend that where
recommendations for the budget. That's that's what that's what Paul say. I think we've all gotten Mr. Sud's multiple emails suggesting not the only one on the committee. I understand. I understand. But I understand the frustration of people on the committee trying to get into deeper numbers and
not being given that information. So, but but you're negating the frustration of people on the committee that feel that they're not able to do the work that they need to do because other people on the committee are digging in too deep in areas that they shouldn't. I mean that you know I understand that your committee member has one opinion
but if other committee members I don't talk to just one committee member and frankly I don't have a problem with them digging down as far as they want to go into detail and I don't either after the budget budget that's process I don't have a problem get to do it all year and
we're kept we start Lisa you and I sat down here in March so try to do it all year you and I sat down here in March so yes we I know they were sunseted or not told to meet or whatever the case may be for a long time from last year since the
budget passing of last year. I get it. Previous years concluded. Yeah, I'm listen I I I griped more about committees being sunset and I was just on retag. So, okay. Okay, Manish, let Sorry, give us a sec. So, I don't I'm
going to say this again because I don't think anybody's hearing me. I don't have a problem with the drilling in. The issue is it needs to be after the budget process. How is asking them to go forward stopping the budgeting process? It's nothing that because if the meeting is is consistently just about the
drilling in and about the $2,000 spent on training last month, then it it it doesn't come up with the $600,000, right? And that doesn't So, but that doesn't get us to to getting to the budget. Todd's saying, "Listen, we cut out this
and this and this. We're going to get our three. We're going to stay at three, right? That budget process still has to happen. We still have to get in there. Negating the budget process. If it can happen within the same time frame, great. Fine. But I don't That's great, too. They're having three-hour meetings.
Four-hour meetings. We're the only other only other committee that has or the only other board that has So, can I just interrupt you for one second? We need a motion to extend. Motion to extend. Sorry, we're a little late on it. Okay.
All in favor? I so um my two cents on is that I agree with Paul in in that we need to focus just on the budgeting process now and then have a discussion about whether um we're going to allow
them to cut them loose to to whatever what was your wording cut them loose to to drill whatever they want to. Um um but in the meantime, so we're just kind of arguing back and forth. So Lisa is
suggesting this. Do we have a consensus for that? Yes, we have a consensus to cut turn them loose and let them do whatever because that's what I'm asking. They need to focus on getting the budget process done. Okay. So let's talk about a consensus on Lisa's thing. So do we have
a consensus on Lisa just turning them loose to do whatever they want right now? No. No, no. Okay, let's move on. What would you like to suggest as in to the F or you? I don't think they're limited to focusing on the budget coming up and work on that
only and then once that processed in what way that they should make suggestions to cut things. Yes. Okay. But they need then I don't think we're having a different conversation. There's a big difference between a rabbit hole like he was saying for $2,000. Where did that money go? Because that's not what's
going to do it. We need big numbers, right? We need them to say, "You're going to have to take capital, you know, capital improvement, pull that down." Okay. Get rid of this contract. What semantics, Todd? I think we're on the same page. Um, but I do think everybody's on the same I do think they're going to need some information
to make recommendations. I believe they all have access to Blackbot. Have you ever tried to use Blackbot? No, I haven't because I haven't. My wife knows how to use Blackbot. She says it's a monster. Yeah, I know. She told me. So go dig into and honestly they've offered to train me and I have not showed up for
that training and unfortunately that young lady who offered is no longer with us but I I have this this lady here's offered to sit me down and show me how I'll log it in. It take her a year of sitting you down to understand how to use that horrible I'm not a spreadsheet guy. I'll be the first to tell me I'm a
measuring tape guy. Can we just get because we're Can we just get a consensus of what? So we we did we did we make that vote? We did. We passed that vote three to two. Okay. Now, can we just get a consensus of what the instructions would you like to state that more aruditely, one of you two, of
what the consensus is of the instructions to fact? The focus needs to be on the budget on on the budget and potential money saving. Money saving only, not income generating, but money saving. I mean, I want to be specific. Correct. So that so
that we're all focused. Forensic diagnosis should wait till after. And they should give us options of 3.5, 3.0, No. And the and the roll back rate, right? Okay. All right. They'll give us three three potential budgets. And are we all in agreement that we'll all that we'll get individually the budget and
they'll get it indiv individually and they'll have an opportunity to meet and then we'll meet after that as a as a right as a double meeting whatever you call it. Okay. Got all that. Got that what the consensus is for your
direction. Okay. Good. We can move along. uh amendments to the capital improvement plan. Um this is a discussion item. Uh the way you amend the capital improvement program, it's adopted by ordinance. It
would be amended by ordinance. Um so this is on for discussion and direction. What we have suggested is not using the funds that have been allocated.
no new funds um but a reallocation of the the funds to um different projects. The projects where additional funding is suggested is an additional 133,350
for drainage and road design associated with the Tangerine Citrus area um locks homes area. um $27,512 for the completion of the swale on 61st
by EANS. That's a contract that you approved last uh month. So, we're coming back um with the the reallocation of of those monies. It'd be another $27,000 to 161st,
$100,000 for the TPA grant um funding. Um that's a lot of the work that uh has been done with respect with respect to the Okachobee corridor. Um and $160,000
for Hyde Park improvements. Um the the staff recommended um after Milton came in that we uh do a Hyde Park project. It was more akin to a capital project than a maintenance project because it was
rectifying so many years of non-maintenance. Um those $160,000 of funds which are related to uh equipment uh equipment rental um tree removal
through a contractor um and materials for the uh for the project. It doesn't include all the staff time and labor because the project was done inhouse with those adjuncts. um
that I just mentioned. Um that $160,000 has been part of the 105 or the road and drainage fund. Um and uh we're recommending that
um that that project's expenditure go over to the the capital fund. Ultimately um it is in for FEMA reimbursement. We believe that it's going to be reimbursed on a about a 75%
um level. So those are the uh the four projects. Um the sources of the funds to be Wait, can you back up for a second? The Hyde Park project's not going to be 100% reimbured. It would be reimbursed on
about a 75% level. That's was not my understanding when it was approved. My understanding was approved was we had to jump on that project right away and do it right away because we had to take the opportunity to get this done when FEMA
would be paying us back for it. And we actually did not do other projects, push them back that were already approved by council because we were told that it would be a we had to jump on this within 30 days of when we were told that to
have it be reimbursed by FEMA. Those are that's that's true. The reimbursement rate is not and never was at 100%. Well, that's not what we were told. Okay. Thank you. Just making sure. Actually, what Jeff says, not 100% true cuz so the
tree removal, the root removal, the tree removal and the root removal will be covered as C A which is 100%. The the redigging of the ditches, replacement of the swailes and stuff like that, FEMA has the option of what
they pay us back and they chose to put it under CAT D, which is 75%. So, initially they told us they were going to cover it under 100%. And then when they went through their planning, they said, "No, we're going to take all the which the bulk of that $170,000 is
the tree removal, the debris removal, and all that stuff." So, a majority of it will be paid at 100%. It's the uh CAT D stuff, which is the reestablishing ditch, cleaning out the pond, and installing the covers. It will be
reimbured at 75%. Thank you for that clarity. The u the source of funds for uh to be reallocated um there had been a budgeted amount of $240,000 from miscellaneous uh for
miscellaneous covert failures. We have not expended any of that $240,000. were the beneficiary of a favorable contract um that we didn't have at the time. Given the uh amount of time that we have
gone into the fiscal year and the favorable contract, we're comfortable in recommending that $120,000 of that $240,000 be reallocated um towards these other projects. Um in
addition there were the specific uh Colbert bridges that were bid and the amount um that was awarded um because of the bid versus what had been budgeted um
presents another $233,245 in in savings. Um also for the completion of the FY road the fiscal year 24 road um contract um there was a
savings of $88,331. Um, we have a cost uh sharing program that was budgeted at $150,000 um at I think it was about midnight on uh September 19th in order to to close out um your budget discussions. That
cost sharing program has um not been uh implemented. It needs to come back to you from a policy standpoint so we can uh implement it. Um, and we're recommending that $20,000 of the $150,000 that was allocated towards that
project be um allocated towards uh the four projects above. And then um there was $145,239 u that was budgeted for a Colbert Bridge on 24th and FOD. Um the staff had
re-evaluated that uh that project earlier this year um and decided that uh when they relooked at it the it wasn't that big of an emergency. And so um re recommending deletion of
that um uh project from this year's uh budget. So those things all together come close to to balancing out. Um they both uh the monies to be
reallocated are $600,862. The savings or the monies available for reallocation are $67,000. Um, and so what we would want is direction from from you um to bring back
a a budget uh amendment through an ordinance change um for all or some of those projects as you see fit. Lisa, you are quick to the gun. I like my button.
Um, so um, thanks Jeeoff for all that information. Um, Francine, do you know the status of the B- road south bridge that went to the west side, the first one south of Okachobee and it was always said FEMA was going to pay for that. Did
they pay for that? I will check for you. I am not sure. Jeff looks like he might have an answer. Um, it we have not received the the funds yet. Um, and I don't recall whether or not I don't think those funds have been obligated.
They're still um under review. Um, but there there has been nothing there there's there's nothing there there's there's been no nos and no indication that there would be a no. But
getting actual money from them some t times takes a lot longer than any well and that predates me being here and I didn't approve that. Um but it was it was discussed I believe at the time that that was another FEMA funded project. Yes. Um and then going
back to 161st um Mr. Galant uh had stated that we had a legal obligation and at the meeting stated it was under an agreement of 1979 when those properties came into the district, but when I asked him to provide documentation and Francine, you may have
already touched on this with um our codes being different than everything else, but um he answered that it was our legal obligation because of being a water district. And then my question would be if as a water district we have an obligation to provide everybody
access to drain their properties, why are we doing FDAs? These are great questions that you raised. We had several workshops on all of the storm water and drainage last year and we brought forward section 46
and section 130. We made a number of changes to section 130 with regard to the FDA. The only change we did not make is one that you have recommended which is the agricultural exemption. We um
have to do the FDA because it is a FEMA requirement and if we hope to continue to apply for and get FEMA funds, we have to be in compliance. I would I would like to see the letter from FEMA that stated the degree of development that we
are requiring of these properties for our FDA level. FEMA would not give us a letter like that. FEMA has done an audit here though. Um they have not done one in probably five or six years. Yes, Richard, I see you want to speak about
it. Um but there will not be a letter for the individual properties. Um and no, not for the individual properties. when we interpreted the FEMA requirements when Mr. Peters was here and we've been through this with staff. I've sat down with staff with this with
Missuchi and the discussion was that the interpretation of FEMA the interpretation of FEMA is that we are the same level of drainage that would require if we were building 50 homes on some of these properties. Don't
shake your head now because we've had this discussion and 161st we approved for $187,000 and in this agenda it's now $27,000. Richard, I see you chomping at the bid to go ahead and provide some details. So
go ahead. The answer on $187,000 versus the $27,000 is that contract is for $187,000. Um, but there is ourselves
contractor and implement and that pipe,000. So that's $27,000. So, we'll be replacing everybody's driveways is basically what we're doing. And their culverts.
So, we're not replacing everybody's driveways. We're installing culberts at that neighbor that the neighborhood actually has proper drainage, which should have been installed years ago and has not been maintained. The water control district did not maintain it or it didn't get installed or it didn't get maintained. Well, the problem was is in
1979 when those properties came into the water control district, there weren't houses there. Over time, the water control district allowed houses to be built there with no controls, no oversight, and no nothing, completely under county control. Then, when the town incorporated, the town decided that
they were going to take control of those streets, which at that point made them responsible for the drainage. Um over time the town has issued permits to residents to install culverts and build houses on those properties. Those culverts were never installed properly.
Residents were just to throw them in the ground wherever they felt that they should go with no oversight from the district or the town. that the we at the water at the uh water control district/public works have
implemented a a plan and when somebody installs a driveway culvert that we go out there we set the survey stakes are at the proper elevation and then as we go out there and and repair these swailes that they can be properly graded
to drain off the roads and allow the water to run off where into our into our district works. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. I almost confused myself.
So, it's I know that the the ITID has a different kind of approach to these driveways. Same. Same. We we stole theirs. Yeah. Yes. But like, no, I understand the process, but like we're paying for this. Our town is paying for all these
covert resets and everything else. So, um I just question I it pays for all that. They do all that. Oh, sorry. He has his light on. Let's hear from Paul. So, answer your question. New construction, you put your own culbert
in. Yes. Right. They come and stake it out just like Richard talking about. But when they've gone through and they start re recutting, which they've had a big project that's been going on for like what four years now? Wow. Longer than that. But they've been recutting swailes. they're replacing him as far as
I know. I don't think there's an assessment or anything like that. But devil's advocate, that was a private road up until a few years ago when um a former council person and a couple other people didn't like the way that lived on the road, didn't like the way it was graded, da da da da da, and became a
public road at that point. So, was it a corporation? Was that right when it happened? I I knew it was a big to-do, but yeah, it was about getting the gas tax money. Yeah. Create a list, put as many miles on you can. everybody's driveways, whatever you can put on it so we can get as much money as we can. And by the way, when the town gets it, send
that check over to us, please. Yeah. And and then and then what happened was Yeah. And then, you know, so but there was never, you know, the ditch that's been there has been there since whoever decided they were going to subdivide thatund something acres exactly. That was his ditch. There was
no rhyme or reason to it, I don't think. I think it was just a a ditch that ran out to a road canal. Anyway, but to answer your question and I just since we're talking about logistics of culverts and crossings and everything, I
have a concern and this has come up before that the town holds residents who are putting in coververts and bridge crossings to a certain standard um as far as size of these covert pipes. And I just want to
reiterate that we need to be certain that we are adhering to that same standard. And I was approached by a gentleman and I will come in, you know, but I just want to put this on the record. I was approached by a gentleman at the beginning of this meeting that feels very strongly that we're not
following our own rules. So, I'm going to come in this week and talk to you guys about it and uh you know, go out and try to to satisfy this gentleman with his concerns. But the whole reason I'm bringing this up is a to put it in
the public record, but b to make sure that all of these places where we're getting better bids or reducing costs or whatever it is that are not being done at the expense of us following our own rules that we make our citizens follow,
that we make our residents follow. Okay? So that's I want to be very clear that I'm, you know, like I said with the assessment rates, everybody on the same playing field, super important to me. No special favors, no nobody. And it's completely unfair of us as a town to impose standards on our residents that
we're not willing to adhere to ourselves. Yes. And I know exactly who you're speaking of, and I had a long interesting conversation with them in the hallway before this meeting started, and I assured him that that covert is it was designed by an engineer. It's signed and sealed by an engineer and it's
installed based on the 2000 study that was but if it's the diameter that he said it is, it's not our standard. So, we need to have our that conversation. But I I don't want to have I don't want to first of all, I don't want to extend this meeting any longer. I think at this point we need to adjourn till tomorrow
night because we have about six pretty meaty items including this one that are not going to get covered. And I don't personally want to stay here till 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning, but that's just my opinion. So, I want to get a consensus on that. Um, does everybody
feel like they're ready to vote on this capital plan thing? Marge, you had something you wanted to say real quick before we discuss that. I thought that the residents had to supply the material and the town would provide the the labor. This is not the this is the that
swale project is part of the the paving project 161st is I I understand where it is but I thought anytime there was anything you know lost your driveway or
out into the canal or now all the all the work that they've done with respect to the the roads. This is related to the the road projects that's been done. U so we're paying for the pipe and we're doing the work. Yeah.
Part of the road. The priority set by the last council was to not just pave a bunch of roads, fix the drainage while we're there, but also hire hire public works to do it. I find that com. Sorry. I I Right. Wasn't public works supposed to do all the work though? And now we're
going out and paying someone else to do the work. Priority and we don't have the staff to finish. Yeah. Finish 2024 projects before we move on to these projects. We can do well we don't have the staff to do both of them. That was that was the
discussion. That was the discussion. I understand what the discuss the last last meeting in the contract on that basis. I don't need clarification on it. I I still don't understand why the uh homeowner couldn't have supplied the pipe like everybody else had to supply
the pipe whenever there was a pipe issue by gande. Yeah, it's a it's a district ditch. So the district supplies the No, it's not district ditch. Actually London with his uh his culvert crossing that he bring that up.
But it just did. But no, it wasn't yours personally. There was other people there. Three other people. Yes. Because it's just mine that had to pay for correct ditch 10 years. I mean I I would the only way I would challenge that is to is to provide the
survey that shows that that's not a district ditch. So the question and I thought this is just a discussion item tonight. This we weren't voting. We're having a discussion. Yeah, it it is. It is. It was a discussion and direction item. Well, yeah, we need to we need to decide on some kind of direction, but I
don't know that we have any kind of direction right now. And it's and we've been at this for can we bring it back to our meeting? So, I would can we yeah, I would say let's let's I mean, here's what my recommendation is and you guys can somebody can pick up on this or not is that we adjourn tonight till tomorrow
night at six o'clock. Can't do tomorrow night. Okay. But I can do another night next week. I'm sorry. There's a public comment. I I I understand that, but I don't have to take your public comment if we're going to adjourn this meeting till tomorrow night, sir. Okay. I think we need to come to an agreement. When
can any of you come back, Lisa? Anytime next week as I'm flying out of town. Can you do a over the Can you do a Zoom? Can you do a Zoom tomorrow? Yeah, you can. Maybe. Yeah, you can. Yeah. What time do you get? I was willing it into existence. Yeah, you can. It depends on
Delta. Okay. But what time are you scheduled to be there? Afternoon. Okay, great. So, we're going to do it at six o'clock and Lisa is going to Zoom. Is everybody okay with that? We're going to adjourn till six o'clock tomorrow night. Does that work for you? I will not be available. I'm not here. I'm flying out
tomorrow. Can you? No, I cannot show. How do you know? We have somebody who could do the clerk's job tomorrow night at 6. There's no way discuss these last items. Well, the problem is she hasn't she she has a agenda item that's up.
Correct. Yeah. Yeah, Valerie. The next item on the agenda is Valerie's item. So, let's do that tonight. Skip 19 through 20 and then call it a day till tomorrow night at 6. Is everybody okay with that? Everybody okay with that? Yep. Okay. Because it's it's
too much because we still have 19 20 21 23 60. The town manager is also not available tomorrow evening. I leave the office tomorrow at 2 pm for doctor's appointments and then I go to more doctor
appointments the following morning. Little more information that I want to disclose here. What about Thursday? Can we have the meeting? Well, I don't want to do it. How about Thursday? You think you'll be okay by then? You'll be able to do it then? I'd like to get it done
this week if possible. Thursday. I I'm working. I'm working. Yeah, I think we're having an issue because it's a holiday week and so we are very short staffed and a lot of people are away on holiday. So, just throwing that out there. So, I guess we're moving it to we're
adjourning till next week on Tuesday. Does that work? Adjourning till next week on T. Yeah. Yeah. That good? I can't do Tuesday, but I'll see if I get somebody else to cover Tuesday. I could do Monday or Wednesday, but not Tuesday. Valerie, are you okay with waiting till next
Tuesday to do it? You'll be again. Thank you, ladies. Yes, I'll make arrangements. Brain dead. I mean, like I'm seriously brain dead. I don't I can't do any more discussion right now. We've been We've been at this for five hours. So, we're going to adjourn till next Tuesday night.
Anybody? 6 p.m. at 6 o'clock. And there and since it's an adjournment there, just for the record, there agenda, no committee discussion. Correct. Community discussion. We will just move on from item 19 into the same agenda. Students public comment. Well, it'll be for item
19. Yeah. Next. Do you need an agenda or you need a you need an agenda? I need a motion. So moved. Is it to adjurnn? Movement to adjourn. Or recess. Is a meeting motion to recess until Tuesday
the 8th at 6 p.m. Second. Call for the vote, your honor. Chie. Okay. Meeting is recessed.