One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And uh tonight I'm going to just ask that everybody give a moment of silence for actually something. Oh, they're saying we have a we're
having a technical difficulty with the microphones tonight. Okay. So, we apparently are being picked up because I see it live streaming, but we're going to have to all speak loudly when we want to speak because the microphones are not functioning properly. So, I'll try. But again, um I received news at four
o'clock this morning that my ex-husband passed away last night. So, I would just dedicate this moment of silence to him. Thank you, Valerie. Do we have a roll call? Council member Coleman here. Council member El Ramy here. Council member
Manilia present. Vice Mayor Herszog here. Mayor Kaine present. Town Manager Ramaya, she's present. Town attorney Torivia here. Public works director Galant.
Okay. Well, any additions, deletions, or modifications? I don't think that's relevant. Um, do we have any non-aggenda comments that came in? No, mayor. All righty. So I called this meeting um
for a very sad reason. Um there a series of events has occurred over the past couple of weeks that has left our town, its staff and our residents under attack. And we need to take action to
protect all parties involved. Hello. Can you hear me now? Okay. Um, as a result of some of these allegations that have made, Mr. Torcivia came to the offices yesterday and uh conducted a series of
interviews with staff. Mr. Torcivia, are you prepared to give a report on the result of your interviews? I am prepared to discuss that matter. Yes. Okay. Would you please? Okay. So, um
Awesome. You want to pass him this one? S one too. Okay. All right. Good evening everyone. As uh mayor said, it's a difficult situation. Um and so before I get into the details, let me uh provide you with a little background. Um for those of you might I didn't ask for
that. I just asked for the result of your report of your interviews with staff yesterday. I've got the whole background and the whole chronology which is part of what I'm going to present tonight. Did you can you just provide us with the results of your interviews yesterday? Are you prepared to do that or not prepared to do that at this point? prepared to provide the
context for a report to just try to give a simple report without giving context I don't think is fair. Okay, then I'm going to go ahead with my presentation and we'll come back to that. Okay. Okay. On April 18th, a current employee showed
her supervisor a text received on a townissued cell phone during the workday. The text was from Laura Denowski's phone, which was verified by her supervisor. The V supervisor then sent a screenshot of that text to the town
manager. The town manager sent an urgent email to Mr. Torcivia. This email was a screenshot of a text sent from Laura Dowsk's phone to a current staff cell phone alleging a vague complaint against the town and
urging this employee to get involved and share their experiences for a potential lawsuit. Subsequently, the same supervisor received a phone call from a former employee because that employee wanted to give him a heads up that Laura Denowski
had called him and other former employees asking them about staff, their work experiences, and if they would testify against the town. Based on this, uh I'm sorry. Yeah, based on this, Miss Denowski, I'm sorry,
subsequently was in town doing some work with the town manager and I believe uh Karen was in the room as well. And Miss Denowski spontaneously said that the text did not come from
her. So, because of this and other previous allegations in town of identity theft, I would like to later on when we're doing motions consider having this matter investigated by PBSO. On Wednesday, April 23rd, I met
with two landowners at their request to discuss issues on their road related to code enforcement. During the course of our me more than one-hour conversation, they indicated that they had been contacted after our last council meeting by people who were
planning to storm the town at our m May 6th meeting attacking the town manager and code enforcement specifically. Before our conversation ended, these people assured me that they wanted to be part of the positive solutions for the town and not the
distractions that are keeping everyone from getting their jobs done. On Friday, April 25th, I received at my home an anonymous letter unsigned, postmarked April 22nd, and sent from Miami, Florida. This letter
had allegations that it was from the employees of the town of Lockahhatchee Groves. The letter claimed that the town manager is guilty of a wide variety of infractions. It was loaded with HR buzzwords such as whistleblower, but
lacking details other than it mentioned one meeting that lasted more than three hours. Later, I would like to ask at this time if any other members of council received this or a similar letter. Paul, did you receive this letter? No. Phyllis, did you receive
this letter? Marge, did you receive this letter? Yes. Lisa, did you receive this letter? Let the record show that only three of five council members received this letter. On Friday, April 25th through Sunday, April 27th, since I received this letter
at my residence, not at the town hall as my function as the mayor, I made a series of phone calls and personal visits with staff members in confidence to determine if they sent this letter and if these situations did occur in town, if they knew about this letter,
and if they agreed to the content of the letter. I made contact with 12 of 21 employees and they all indicated that they were very comfortable speaking with me. They all denied knowledge of the letter and while some did indicate that
there are problems in the workplace, most indicated that the toxic environment that they experience here is generated by outside forces. To determine what other actions needed to be taken, I spoke to a number of agencies regarding anonymous
complaints. I discovered the following. Ethics does not investigate anonymous complaints pursuant to state bill 7014. Three different attorneys that I talked to told me to throw it in the trash because that's where it belonged. We have a town policy, as do
many other municipalities, that we do not investigate anonymous complaints. Even animal care and control no longer takes or investigates anonymous complaints. I know this because someone in the town made an anonymous complaint against me and that's when they enacted this afterwards that was
false. The reason given by most parties for not taking anonymous complaints is that they are used as a political weapon. The only reason that a police department would investigate an anonymous complaint would be is if there was a specific
health safety or a specific criminal activity outlined. I felt justified in taking the actions that I did because as I received the letter as an individual and the letter was sent to my home asking for my
help. On Monday, Monday, April 28th, I received an early morning phone call from Mr. Mr. Torcivia, he indicated that he had been sent a copy of I am assuming the same letter that I received. Mr. Tivia, could you please produce the letter that was sent to you and indicate
who sent it to you and what was communicated to you when it was sent to you? I'd rather do that during my full do that during a full report and not just peace meal. I have an entire report ready to prepare that includes that matter.
I would like to hear his answer. Now as would I that's why I asked the question who sent you the letter. So before I get into the details just answer the question. Who sent you the letter? I received a phone call from a member of staff advising me there was
a letter and I started calling council members and one of the council members I called advised me that they had received that letter and I asked for a copy of the letter and I received that letter. Thank you. That's that's the simple answer. During the course of our conversation, Mr. Tivia urged that we
had to take immediate action, and I conveyed the results of what I had already learned to him. He insisted that we needed to talk. I informed him that I had a 3:00 meeting that afternoon at town hall. While I was in a meeting with
FPL regarding rate increases, sorry, guys. Um, and undergrounding in town, Mr. Turret Civia arrived at town hall. After my meeting with them concluded, I had another meeting with the town manager and our local lobbyist regarding my personal priorities. At the
conclusion of that meeting, Mr. Torcivia entered the conference room and a variety of solutions were discussed. We debated the origin of the complaint, the correct action to take, and when to proceed. Mr. Dr. Tivia was unhappy with several solutions suggested that would alleviate further stress on our
employees because he stated, and I quote, "I have to make sure I satisfy Lisa." I advised him at this time, I'm sorry, I have witnesses that were in the room, but we'll get to that later. I advised him at this time that I felt that the town was under attack from
outside forces and that I was certain that we would receive more anonymous letters. So, we had to be very careful how we proceeded because continuous baseless investigations would bleed the town dry. We agreed to consider the
options and speak at 11:15 on Tuesday. On Tuesday, during my conversation with Mr. Torcivia, he made it clear that he was going to conduct an investigation regardless of the effects on the employees because he felt it was his legal obligation. He indicated that
he would be at town hall the following day for a meeting and he would come early and conduct his interviews through HR. Also on Tuesday, the taste case was discussed with the Palm Beach County Commission on Ethics. On Wednesday,
April 30th, I called Mr. Torcivia early in the morning to let him know that in I in no way supported his interviews. I told him that it was inappropriate for him to act on a on or request direction from one council member. I also advised
him that I was calling an emergency meeting so that he could get direction from all council before acting per our charter. Wednesday, April 30th, about midday, I subsequently received a text and an email from a citizen who is serving on a
committee who is resigning because he received an anonymous threatening letter at his home. I'm not naming the person because he feels he needs to resign to protect his family and I'm already concerned and he is already concerned that the author of this letter knows
where he lives. I immediately affirmed informed the attorney and the town staff. Also on Wednesday, April 30th about midday, the town manager upon receipt of the correspondence from committee members as per her duties
shared this with the town attorney and contacted PBSO as per Florida statute 817.49, 836.1, 837.06, 838.021, and 784.04.
048. They are awaiting instructions about how to proceed. I thank you for your patience and allowing me to tell you this tragic story. I'm deeply saddened that we're having to have this conversation. I want everyone to know
that I am deeply committed to protecting this town, its residents, landowners, and staff. I'd like for us to consider some actions. The first action that I would like to for us to consider is should we allow Mr. Tivia to continue questioning the
staff regarding the anonymous letter. Can we have some discussion please? I also got a phone call from Mr. Tivia. He I he told me about the letter.
He started to read the letter. I asked him if it he said it was anonymous. I said I was not interested in hearing about the letter. He continued to read it to me. I stopped him. I told him that
this is nothing but a witch hunt and that I am against him moving forward at this time on any action regarding this letter. Also, I want to read you what it says in our charter, which for some
reason I do not understand why our attorneys cannot follow our charter. From charter item D, the town attorney shall perform the following functions in addition to other
functions as designated by the town council. Four. When requ When requested to do so by the council, prosecute and defend on behalf
of the town all complaints, suits, and controversies in which the town is party to. It is direction from our town council and I'm apologize. This is very
upsetting. I mean I I was contacted by Glenn as well. Um I guess that was Monday. Yeah, I was contacted by Glenn as well and honestly I was not aware of the uh part of the charter about you know anonymous and specific specificity.
that one. Thank you. I thought it sounded like I was saying it wrong. I was not aware. So, I mean, if I was aware at that time that that's the direction of the charter, then I would have said I would have been totally against any kind of thing, any kind of investigation. I mean it is an
allegation and I thought you know it nobody wants a hostile work environment anyway and I understand the purpose but you know and at the at the at the drop of the hat not knowing what the charter specifically said about
this. Yeah. So at this point, no. When I think back um at other attorneys that we have had in this town, um there have been attorneys that have been let
go uh for less um actions than uh the attorney stepping forward and acting almost like a vigilante and and wanting to take over uh control of the whole town. I mean, I I thought our
manager took directions from the council and I thought that the um the attorney also is supposed to take directions from the council. So, I I think the behavior
was out of line. Uh so I guess the question is is whether we want the uh town attorney to continue within the the uh employee interviews. Um to that end I did not receive this letter um as far as opening it until
Monday. So I was unaware that it had been in the hands of you or anybody else prior to that. So I would ask why did you proceed with speaking to employees instead of reaching out to the attorney? Why did he hear about it Monday morning
as well? So, um, so that that's a question for me. I don't I don't know of all the other I know about the manager sharing the email with the text about the code enforcement complaints. I believe most of those were generated by uh the people that were here at our
April 1st meeting and then uh the uh comp I guess the anonymous letter that is being referenced um by yourself to the uh former committee member now which is very unfortunate. Um I uh I understand that there is a lot
of uh I guess uh people saying that this anonymous letter is contributed to certain people. Um, I would say emphatically that we need to be very careful pointing fingers at who might have sent this. I know myself, I knew nothing about it until Monday morning when I opened the letter. I immediately
took a screenshot and shared it with the town attorney because I felt that was the action that was appropriate. Okay. So, I believe I already answered your question. I thought that that it was prudent to determine if there was any merit to the allegations and to get the opinions of
the employees before I went to the t the town attorney. I was perfectly prepared. But I didn't receive the letter as the mayor. I received a letter at my private residence asking me for help. No, no, no, no, it was not. It was
addressed to Anita Kaine. It was not. It did not. says what her letter says, but I'm here as am I, which is why I brought this forward. They reach out for the The attorney
answers to us no differently than the town manager to us. So, but it does say to the council members. It does not. My letter does not say anything about the council members. Doesn't say one word about me being a council member.
Sorry. It doesn't. Sorry. Well, you assume wrong. Okay. So, the question is Mr. Tory Civia spent how many hours interviewing employees the other day? About four four hours at $225 an hour.
So $235. Madam Mayor, there was an old radio guy named Paul Harvey. He said, "And now the rest of the story, I would like to be able to fill in the blanks that you're leaving out. It's really unfair for you to give a narrative that is not 100% accurate. And I would like the ability to explain why as a town
attorney I believe that it's critical for you to act on this complaint. Please go right ahead. Tell us why it's critical for you to act on this complaint. I don't think anybody's not acting on this complaint. By the way, I think we are here to act on this complaint. I started to say before I've
been practicing employment law for over 40 years. Not I'm not a rookie at this. I won the first ever employment discrimination case for Palm Beach County in 1984 in federal court in Miami. And during my years as a trial lawyer, I tried dozens of employment cases for the school board, for the
county, for many cities. So, I think I have an idea what it takes. And I spoken at many lectures about how do you practice employment law? I've investigated numerous employment law claims for clients and non-clients, confidentially and not confidentially.
In this type of situation where an employer receives a complaint, particularly a government employer, anonymously or not, the best practice is not to ignore the complaint simply because it's anonymous. Frankly, it makes no difference to me whatever political shenanigans are going on. The
reality is there was a complaint that came in. Anonymous complaints are up until two years ago, they were accepted by the commission on ethics. They were accepted by code enforcement. The legislature changed that. They have not changed the law and employment law. In
fact, if you go on the US Department of Labor's website, the EOCC's website, OSHA's website, they all accept anonymous complaint. In the employment world, anonymous complaints are the way employees often complain because they fear retaliation. So, the fact that it's
anonymous is frankly irrelevant. There has now been a complaint made against the manager. My professional opinion is that needed to be investigated when we and and it's not my just opinion. Your policies that you adopted require this. Your policies say,
and I highlighted some for you up there, that these complaints shall be investigated as promptly as possible. These complaints will be treated with confidentiality with the need to conduct an adequate investigation and any allegations against a manager shall be reported to the Hound attorney, which
were not reported to me till Monday, even though I'm now hearing they came in on Friday. And who shall then notify the town council? So, as soon as I knew on Monday, I did my duty under your policy and reported it to each of you. I also told each of you that the best course of
action is to hire an independent person to investigate these allegations. And I suggested that on next Tuesday's meeting, I was going to have an agenda item where I asked you for the authority to do that. You, Madame Mayor, pushed back very hard on that. You did not want an independent person. And the manager
pushed back on that. That's not accurate. And both the manager and you were at the meeting that you mentioned along with the citizen which I thought was highly unusual to have a meeting regarding employment matters with a citizen present and you wanted me to
engage in a system with the Florida Institute of Government. There was a woman I think no the the question is how did we get here? So I I to your after the mayor
after the mayor and Francine told me to after they agreed to. So that's why you need to hear the whole story. So we talked on Tuesday. They had a woman named Laura Gambino from the Florida Institute of Government who was the director of the early learning coalition of Brevard that they wanted me to contact to have her conduct a SWAT
strength training uh strength weaknesses uh training and included in that perhaps get into this. And I said, "Okay, let's consider that and let's get in touch with the Florida Institute of Government." The next day is when we had our conversation on Tuesday morning. And again, Francine was on it, which is
highly unusual that the subject of a potential investigation is part of the decision as to who's going to investigate her. Very unusual. I don't think I've had that ever before. And let me finish, Francine, you're going to have a chance, too. So um at that point
you Francine suggested that I should look into this because we didn't want an independent person. I again stressed I thought an independent person should do this and I would bring it up Tuesday. You did not want it brought up on Tuesday. So you both agreed that I should look into it on Wednesday. I was driving here on Wednesday in accordance
with that understanding. You then called me Wednesday morning said I withdraw my permission for you to do this investigation. Correct. Pardon me. anonymous letter sent by a coward and a liar. We don't know who sent the letter and as I said before, anonymous
complaints are routinely received in this world and they are routinely investigated. Law since 2019 has taken direction from one or two council members on a regular basis. I'm done. As I as I mentioned, it was the mayor Francine that suggested I
look into this on Wednesday. Can you just stop pause for one minute? Is there something that you need to say? I did not ask to go to the meetings. I was told I was supposed to be in a meeting with the mayor and Mr. Torcivia on Monday. That's how I remember it. I was
not aware of the meeting. I knew that I had meetings with outsiders. So, I was told to be at that meeting. And on Tuesday, I was told to be at the 11:15 meeting. And the invitation came from Mr. Torivia as well. That's how I remember it as well. I have not seen the
letter. I do not ever wish to see the letter. And if there were any way that I could not be here right now, I would gracefully and happily not do so. That's all I have to say. Okay. And and my conclusion is my obligation is to report
to town council. My plan was to report it on Tuesday and ask for authority to hire someone. We've obviously expedited that to today. So I will I will I but I have to ask it at a public meeting just be and just because privately you say something you just said I can't respond
to one person the mayor has given me calling us separately. My obligation is to my obligation is to notify you and so then I was going to have it on the agenda on Tuesday. The mayor and Francine asked me not to put it on the agenda on Tuesday and said I should look
into it myself do preliminary assessment. That's what I started to do on Wednesday and I got through about four hours worth. I'm happy to continue. I'm more than happy and would prefer that you consider bringing on somebody outside to independently look at this. That's what you should do when you
receive this. If you don't, now this is your decision. You're the council. I'm only the adviser. If you don't take action for whatever reason, you believe this came from some nefarious source. That's up to you. If there is later a lawsuit, I can guarantee you that if the
lawyer on the other side is going to take each one of your depositions and say, "Why did you not try to protect my client? They sent in this letter anonymously because they were afraid of retaliation and you wouldn't even look at it. So therefore, town, you're guilty of retaliation." That's the point of
protecting you. It's a small ounce of prevention to prevent a pound of cure because if you don't investigate and later there is an allegation now you've created the door for but that's your call
not for available for somebody that is in fear. No, we have ethics in the room. Not not for HR matters, right? No, management has always had an open door policy. There are five council members.
So to be an anonymous in the middle of this insane heated election and all the things that have been going on in this town and the bull crap that's on Facebook is the hatefulness in this town
by a few people is upsetting and I'm sorry Mr. Tivia I don't believe your agenda is for the best of the town in a whole. Okay. Agenda. Are are you done with your report? Yes.
Requesting town council direction in accordance with your policy to my suggestion is to hire an outside person. Okay. That's that's another motion later. The motion that we're the item that we're discussing right now is should we allow Mr. Torcivia to continue
questioning the staff regarding this anonymous letter? Are there any public comments on this matter? Val, I have received I have received um a few public comment cards and also two emails
pertaining to the item as a whole. Okay. So, do you want to hear those feature two pertaining to the item? Are there any specifically for this item? It's just for item number one. So, go ahead to this motion. Go ahead and read the ones that you received.
Can you all hear me? Okay. Uh, I received an email from the Cruz family. I am writing on behalf of my family at 14265 and 14283 Tangerine Drive in support of our town
manager, Francine Raaya. Frankly, I am surprised that I need to do this as I find that she has been nothing but a true asset to our town. She is being attacked anonymously by some and therefore it is necessary. Her interest is always in helping our town to be better and in the past year or so we
seem to be headed in the right direction. She is a fair and unbiased person who truly wants what is best for our town. The staff, the council and the town meetings run much more smoothly with her guidance. She is well informed and is more than qualified to hold the position of town manager and is doing an
excellent job. And this is from the Cruz family. The next email is from Tuet Marquette. Hi Francine, this is Tuet Marquette. I have lived here for a long time and this is the first I've seen the town looking great. Keep up the good work. Thank you.
Okay. Any other public comments on this item? Yes. Uh, Mary McNicholas, Mary McNicholas, 12845 Raymond Drive. Um, good evening, council. I'm sorry to be here in this
situation. Um I I think that this is sad. Um I I you all know me well enough to know that no matter what I'm working on, I absolutely try to say that we're
stronger together than we are divided. I would hope that you come up with some kind of collaborative discussion and compromising situation for how you will move forward on things. I do have to
correct a couple of things that were stated. One is to Madame Mayor, I did not hear I happen to be the resident that Mr. Torcivia was speaking of and I happened to be in a meeting in two
meetings that you showed up. I didn't know you were going to be in our meetings. So you showed up. I didn't know that you had scheduled meetings. I was scheduled for two meetings. And I want to correct two things that I heard because quite frankly that is why I was asked to stay.
I felt a little comfortable, a little awkward if you will, but I think I was there as just a nonbiased un you know person there. However, I am a vendor which you brought up to me. I want to mention that I never heard anything madame mayor as far as anything to do
with council member Lisa Remy in that in that meeting that I was in and it was just a conversation of things going on. Glenn Torciv and I full disclosure had worked together with Palm Beach County a lot of times on a lot of these issues
when I was in risk management. So I did not know Mr. Torivia Glenn that in essence you said it was unusual or awkward or something about a resident being in but I was asked at that time by
two people that I was meeting with and part of the reason was is that I think people felt uncomfortable. I was there as much to verify what you said as as much as what they said. So part of it was you were asked if it was okay for a
resident, me, to be there since it was the end of my day and you said yes, you have no problem with it. So I just want to correct what you said because you kept saying that it was highly unusual. Now to get back to what I wanted to say up here, enough's enough. I have looked at
all different policies that Palm Beach County that any municipalities, anybody else has as far as anonymous complaints. We are giving this way too much credit in my personal opinion and I do have a
lot of years. I am not an attorney and I do not have the experience that Glenn does, but as far as this goes, it's an anonymous letter, you know. We need to be working together. And if I
know that there was there were things that were said, Glenn, at the last council meeting even, that were out of control. And I mentioned this to you in our meeting or afterwards. People need to be professional, kind to each other. This point blanking, videotaping
everything, facetiming, whatever the heck we're doing. These are our neighbors. This is our community. Why are we treating other people like this? I work my butt off to try to provide scholarships to everybody in this
community. You know, good things. If people need something to do, come out and help me do it. That's all I have to say. Mr. Browning. Sir. Sir, you're gonna need the microphone. Okay. I have been here before. I served
11 years on the water control board, served 12 years as mayor of this town. I love Locket Grove. I've lived here for over 40 years and several other things. I have probably invol been involved in the process of selecting managers, lawyers and everything more than anyone
in this room because water control board town everything else. There aren't a lot of town managers out there. When you get one, you normally are stealing them from another municipality. I hate to say there's a lot more lawyers than there are town
managers, but I can say that very comfortably. Uh we have to be careful when you have anonymous complaints. In all those years, 23 years sitting up there at any other office, there was never 100% agreement by anybody. There
was always somebody in the back that was angry at the manager because their pet project didn't go through or something that they wanted didn't happen. Go off on your own. So, I encourage you, you know, I support our town manager. I support our town manager and I think
she's doing the word I get is she's doing a fine job and I sure don't want to see her replaced because of the old statement well you don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. I mean you know better to deal with someone
that's doing a good job and standing in there and help and grow our community. Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Santana. He needs the microphone. I probably do and maybe a translator. Hi, my name is
Paulo Santana. I live at 1362 Road. Would like to mention um a few things that I have observed here. in first place as as we just heard very well. I think our town manager is is not someone
to be replaced like a allowing any any capriccious because this is what's being about like uh uh this investigation is violating due process like uh it's being
over u I I put here several um statutes that they're being broken here by doing that without having consulted the the full council yet. Um, it would be like someone doesn't like the pilot of the airplane
and they want to throw them out in the middle of the flight. It's at least negligent and reckless. So, the problem here is not about the anonymous whatever they say they can say
that's why it's anonymous. It's how the procedural is being handled here. And the town, the lawyer should know better that we don't have any probable cause to start an investigation even though that
the whistleblower I can tell you statute 123187 might allow investigation but you cannot be doing that by vague anonymous capriccious or whatever. So this is
being like a not only saying that it's borderlining a intentional infliction of emotional distress on someone that's working for the town by violating a bunch of things including uh due process of
investigation by a capricious uh decision without consulting the thing and this is a violation of constitutional rights. So I I I believe that our uh legal team should be more aware about those procedural rules than everybody else does and for right now
they're lacking on doing that. Anybody else though? Mr. McClendon, um is your comment regarding this item? Thank you. Todd McClendon, 3481D road. The only winner so far is a town attorney, right?
He's been on the clock for days getting paid. He's the winner here. And at the end of the night, he's still going to be the winner because he's going to get paid. And it's this activity that he's continued to do for year after year that he's been here is running up the bill on
the town. The budget for the for the for the legal expenses for the town is out of control. It is double or triple what it was just five or six years ago. And I understand we have inflation, but for it to be as astronomical as it is, something's drastically wrong. It's got
to stop. an anonymous complaint might come in next week and the week after and the week after. There was no dire emergency that he had to do something right now. If we if the town had been served with a lawsuit and he's got 20 days to respond to it, that might be an emergency. This was not an emergency.
There was nothing dire here that he had to jump in and spend all this money and resources to do it. But this is indicative with this law firm. They have to approve a $50 contract and they'll they'll charge $150 an hour for that $50 contract or $225 an hour, whatever his
rate is. This is why the bills are astronomical. I don't trust this law firm. He knows that I've got problems with him in the past. Not going to hide that. But outside of that trust, we can just look at the invoices and how much we've been paying. And it's ridiculous. We could have paved more and more miles
of roads with this extra money that was spent. We could have done so many great things in this town without paying for his law firm. And this needs to stop. This anonymous complaint is nonsense. Put it in the trash. If more than a dollar was spent on it, it was too much.
Thank you. Anybody else? V. Yes. Thank you. Um, Miss Standish. Virginia Standish. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes. Okay. Virginia Standish North Road. Um, my concern first is, and I
know your question is, should the attorney be investigating this? Uh my concern first is you mentioned that one committee member was feared for the safety of his family and I realize anonymously complaints everyone's saying don't take him seriously but in the
context of what has happened recently in the comm western communities with a 22year-old being arrested for targeting law enforcement in churches. Um, my concern is for the safety of you and the town and you're getting these I I don't
know the tone of the letter. It just concerns me that these were sent to elected officials to personal committee members who were designated by elected officials and if anything I guess my first question is was law enforcement
notified? I I stated that it was hard to hear you that's why I'm asking. Sorry. And I do have other motions pertaining. This is just I got six motions here. Take what I to answer to answer your question. I I believe it's specific to your charter that council directs who
should be investigating. And I think that would be up to council to make that decision is where I'm going to lead that. But again, my concern is for the safety. Um I realize everyone's saying, "Oh, anonymous complaints are trivial." Um, I'm taking my head out of the sand,
folks. And if you get so many people getting a complaint like this, I'd say heads up and get law enforcement involved and then decide who's going to investigate it. Thank you. Anybody else regarding this item, Mrs. Joseilliano? Um, 1530 B Road. First
of all, a shout out to uh council members for showing up so quickly for an emergency meeting and perhaps to dovetail a little bit on what Miss Standish just said. You know, while Anita took it upon herself to call this meeting, I I feel council should have
done the same. would have would have given you guys the chance to speak with him as a group and then be directed as our charter says as opposed to while I'm sure that your intentions were good in looking after staff. Uh I feel like you maybe jumped
the gun a little bit and and now you're going to take a little heat for it. Uh, apparently I also feel like, you know, we've been talking about um staff and I want to just quote Abraham
Lincoln. Don't change a horse in the middle of the stream. Things are pretty tumultuous and things are pretty, you know, heated at this point. and to just start taking out everybody who gets in
the way, especially based on and again I'm not not giving credence to anonymous letters but sending anonymous letters shooting after staff and sending us on that sort of um hunt chase it seems to
me to be completely counterproductive and taking um a lot of momentum that this town has acquired over the last several councils and completely chopping it to the knees, but while we're just getting our feet underneath us. Instead,
I feel like council members, new and old, should try to get together and work towards the finish line. Don't change a horse in the middle of the stream. Don't change a horse in the middle of the race. We'll never get there. Don't keep shooting the horse out from underneath
the jockey. It it it doesn't work. Thank you. Anybody else know? Okay. So, we need a motion about whether we are going to Oh, I'm so sorry. Your water bottles are moving.
I will move it. Okay. Um, I I want to make something clear that um uh Glenn and I were on the on the phone talking together as he was driving toward this meeting that uh he was going to hold
with Francine and Mary. Francine and Mary didn't know he was coming. There was no connection between Mr. Torivia and them.
So I I got a call from either Mary I I think it was Mary um in in regard to something else and I mentioned oh Glenn is on his
way and she was kind of shocked to hear that he was coming. She had two other meetings already scheduled and and he's coming in on this meeting. So I I I feel
like he was jumping the gun. I I I think that um he he should have investigated a little bit more be before he reacted. Another thing um with with the law firm
council, previous council had asked uh that Elizabeth Lanahan stop representing and signing documents for our town.
She's continuing to be the listing attorney even though we have given the law firm direction to stop her. So therefore, is that why our bill is so exorbitantly high?
We saw a problem as a council that the the prices were high and we were trying to rectify the situation. Our hands were tied because the law firm didn't react.
So, um I'm a little confused. This this meeting was called to address this complaint. Correct. And I was just going to bring everything back. Why is this an attack on the law firm? I I'm confused. Okay. I can't I I I don't get to tell the
public what to say or not to say. Okay. So, to bring things back to center, what we're looking for right now is a motion on whether to allow Mr. Torcivia to continue questioning the staff regarding this anonymous letter. Can I have a
motion? I'll make a motion that Mr. Torcidia No, I make a motion no to stop the attorney from his uh decision to
move forward without council uh authority or direction. And uh no second. All in favor? I opposed. Passes five to zero. Okay. Did you have something you needed
to say in the meantime? Because I have Yeah, I have logged on to Zoom and I have a previous appointment that I was supposed to be at. So, I'm still involved in the meeting. I just have to travel. So, I I just want I'm going to walk get up and walk out. So, I don't want you to Okay. But you're going to
stay with us on Zoom. Okay. Thank you. Um the second thing I'm going excuse me bear with me for a second because I'm going to go out of order so it doesn't of what I have these thoughts written down. Okay. The second thing is um one
of the things that we've been discussing at count the last count couple of council meetings um is beginning uh another strategic planning. It's been a number of years since we've done it. Um and oh that's horrible.
[Laughter] Um, so what I would like I would like council to consider is that we begin that strategic strategic planning immediately with the first step of the strategic planning being a SWAT
interviews conducted by an independent outside consultant to get to the bottom of all of the potential issues in town regarding staffing, management, etc. Um,
sure. Strengths, weaknesses, threats, I forget, and opportunities. Uhhuh. Strength, weaknesses. The staff has already done a SWAT analysis and we have the result of that. It was done anonymously, but um
where I'm suggesting that working with an alkine side consultant perhaps on an one-on-one basis as opposed to in a group meeting, even though it was anonymously done in a group meeting, that we might determine through that if any of these allegations that were made
in this letter actually do exist in the town, if any of these threats are actually there. I've seen the current SWAT analysis and actually in the strength column is the town manager. So I don't know whether the outcome might be
different should it be done in a different fashion but since we were going to do the strategic planning anyhow what would usually happen is that the outside consultant would meet with staff and then meet with the council um and present the results and then meet
with individual council members as well um and get our do a do a do a mini SWAT with each one of us basically um and then that would be the the platform form on which we would step off of our strategic planning from those things that are identified from within the town
that are strength, weakness, opportunities, and threats. And then that way we could plan our bringing the town's people in and getting their input. Does that make sense? Did that did that communicate? Okay. Do you want this?
Uh, how would that differ from an independent investigation on this complaint? And how how does that tie into that? Well, how it would differ is we just spent about $1,000 on an investigation.
Um, and what we were pl So, here's here's where I'm coming from, and it doesn't again, I'm bringing this to the full council for us to take a look at. We were planning on doing the strategic planning anyhow. we've said we were going to do it. So, this is money we were already going to spend. So, just
using this kind of channeling this and using it to achieve the goal of finding out whether these issues exist with money we were already going to spend as opposed to another separate outside investigation. I mean, this will serve the whoever we choose. I mean, I've I've
I've met with a couple of people, a couple of consultants to try to bring some names to the council. I have two that I was going to bring to the council meeting on Tuesday night for you guys to consider. Um, two were really expensive and they also were their experience was
in like big cities like Fort Lauderdale and I didn't think I did, you know, when I met with them I just didn't feel like they were they knew small town, you know, they knew us and our kind of issues. Um, one really jumped out at me um as being a really good choice. Another one um has
been suggested um who I haven't met with yet, but has been suggested to me as somebody who's worked with the town before who um knows the town and is also very wellliked by at least one other one person on council, not me, but I don't know who. So, anyhow, I was going to have those two names brought forward on Tuesday night for us to vote on who to
choose who it is. That way, you guys would have an opportunity to vet them yourselves, look at them, and and ask questions that you might have. Um, who suggested? Um, one of the individuals I got from uh
doing some research on my own. The other one I got from uh a um from one of our vendors, gave me suggested the name to me. You can do as you can we can do as many as you want. I just
say I just think whatever we do it has to be independent. I think that is 100% 100% 100%. Yeah, 100%. I I agree with you 100%. But it's not it's not choosing necessarily the person that I that I want to get to tonight because I don't
feel like we're prepared to do that at all. Okay. What I want to get to is that we are in fact addressing the problem that Mr. Torsivia wants us to address from a legal standpoint by beginning this process and doing this
SWAT analysis and giving each employee an individual voice with this outside consultant. But we're kind of killing two birds with one stone and also getting valuable information that'll help us start the strategic planning process. Okay. So, does anybody have any
question any any other questions about that? Any public comment on that item? Anybody want to comment on that item? No. Okay. Okay. Can I have a motion then to basically begin our strategic planning with the SWAT interviews with
staff conducted by an outside consultant to be chosen next hopefully next Tuesday if we can get to that. Make a motion to approve moving forward with what Anita just [Laughter]
you got that Val. Okay. All in favor? I opposed. Oh, oppose. Hey, go Paul. Passes five to zero. Okay. Um, the next motion that I would like to make or the next thing I
would like to discuss and then have a motion made is um I would like to discuss the uh right now PBSO has uh some perhaps not all of the evidence of the things that have occurred. Um, I consider
the threat to a citizen to be that so much so that this person said to me that they were withdrawing from the committee because they were for fear for the safety of their family. That's unacceptable. Um, the letter that they received said
uh, well, he was unable to provide me with a copy of it because he threw it in the trash. Um, but according to what he told me, and again I understand this is hearsay, but I have no reason to disbelieve him. Um, according to what he told me, the the letter said something
along the lines of, "We had an election. Nobody wanted you and nobody wants you involved with the town." Um, so it's not okay. Um, it's just not okay. And again, this is the second anonymous complaint that I've been aware
of in a week. Uh, I've been aware of other ones in the past, I suppose, but this one, uh, was pretty bad. So, um, I would like to have a discussion about turning the evidence over a and with the
person who who allegedly sent the text, denying knowledge of sending denying having sent the text and claiming that that and I believe claiming I wasn't in the room at the time this was reported to me. Karen, I believe you were in the room. Could you please tell me what the person
said and how that conversation came to be? Thank you. So, we were sitting on other matters. So, it had nothing it was not specific in regards to this particular issue, but during the discussion, a question was asked that there was an an item that was released
with her name being used and did she do it? And basically, she said no. Okay, go ahead, Francine. I don't recall who asked that question because surprised. I don't recall anyone asking that question because when I heard it come
up, I was very surprised and I said nothing. Nothing to ask about it on the front end and said nothing after she said it. And she said she was having a police friend investigated. I do not recall a question being asked, but
Valerie was in the room. Think correct. Valerie, do you remember a question being asked and that being the response to it or how do you remember just so we have some kind of consensus? Uh the former council member the for the former council member brought the item up herself. Okay. Thank
you. So, so, so apparently Miss Dowski was in here on Monday helping with some issue had had called the town manager and offered her help. So the question the question is so I'm
trying to get I'm trying to get to a point here but I had to get facts of what was said. Okay. All right. So because that person uh is alleging that they did not send these texts that are coming clearly from their cell phone. You saw
the screenshot, right? Okay. And so because that person's alleging it that they did not make uh you know send those texts that is a case of identity theft. Okay. And so then we would need to get PBSO involved. So the question is that I'm
asking us to consider is should we turn all of the evidence over to PBSO so they can begin the potential identity theft? We have had identity theft allegations recently um in the town from another citizen that I've been involved with. Um
and so I'm not sure whether this is a problem. I I don't know. Did she did Excuse me. Go ahead. Did she claim identity then? Yeah. She said it was not her and she was very
concerned about it and she was going to ask a friend in the police department to help her find out how to investigate it. So I think us doing it would help her. Okay. Well, was it town related? It was
sent to a town cell phone and it was town related. Yes. Let's investigate it. Yes. Have the sheriff's department. We pay taxes for that. We have to pay him. We already paid the sheriff. So, let's
put him to work. Yes. Okay. Disagree. Marge. Do you have anything to say? No. Anybody have Do we have any public comments on should we have the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office investigate this? Yes. You would like to say something?
Okay. Hold on. Whether they want to admit that it's Please speak into the mic because otherwise it won't capture it on record. And state your name for the record, please. Joe Siciliano, 1530B Road. Clearly, if someone denies that they did
it, but it came from a device that belongs to them, someone has hacked into them or is pretending to be them. That seems to me to be a clear definition of identity theft. And where Mr. Torvia was
eager and willing to chase down a ghost, he now we have somebody who's borrowing a old staff member's phone. This seems more egregious to me than anything else. I feel like we should absolutely search out who is responsible
borrowing a phone. What the sequence? Go back over. So, so the sequence is there was a little confusion there and I just want to clear it up. I was Give me a second to clear it up. They didn't borrow a staff member's phone. The text was sent to a staff member's phone.
They were they were it was sent to a staff member's phone. Okay. All right. From a phone that was identified as Miss Denowski's because you know it says who's sending you the text, right? That's what it said. Okay. All right. Do we have Okay. Uh Mr.
Mlendon Todd McClennon 341 D Road. Yeah, I mean it definitely should be investigated. We've heard time and time again about, you know, identity theft in the town, whether it's code enforcement issues and that sort of thing. It needs to come to a stop. People need to wake up and quit playing these games. And if
it takes PBSO to investigate, I mean, if Laura didn't send these these text messages, she needs to find out who did it and the town needs to find out who did it. This needs to stop. You know, if it came from from somebody else, it doesn't matter where it came from. If it's coming to the town and it's regarding town business, now you're
talking about a crime that is involved with the town, definitely needs to be investigated. Thank you. Paulo, turn around, Mr. Santana. Yes. Uh Paulo Santana 1362. He wrote, "If the message, the recipient and the
alleged damage was made to the town, the town has jurisdiction to order the investigation because the damage or the alleged damage or the probable cause was made to the town. independent if it came
if if the cause of action is not originated by the the the sender or on her sender thing but the damage it will be made or either if it's for infliction of emotional distress or coercion by uh
sending um false or pressure for whatever they want to do with this uh accusations or text messages. So yes, I think it's a duty of the town to investigate and since uh council member Manilia has
mentioned we already have that in the budget, I think this is a very well use of uh uh the equipment that we have which is uh Palm Beach County Sheriff which is a the most credible uh agency to do that.
Anybody else? Is there anybody else from the public? Okay. in a lighter. Um, so I again I apologize. This was the text we got, the screenshot that was all in the code enforcement stuff and um was
a statement about I guess uh people coming to the meeting on May 6th, right? So I get why why was the question raised to it's Laura Denowski that we're that we're asking about may have identity
theft. Okay. Well, can I ask the attorney then to weigh in on how this weighs into the town's concern because I don't understand the concern. Okay. Well, sure you can ask the c
attorney to weigh in, but I will tell you where my concern comes in. This was a a text message that came in on a town-owned staff phone at 1:50 in the afternoon while that employee was at work. Okay. And wait a minute, it was several other employees also got a text
is what I'm hearing. And it was not not that I know of. Not that I'm aware of. I've spoken to their supervisor and not that I'm aware of. Several other employees were called. Oh, okay. I didn't understand. Okay. I'm sorry. Mr. Troy Civia, would you like to answer Miss Elramy's question about why we
would contact PBSO about identity theft? That's your discretion as to whe other discretion as to whether you believe that this constitutes a crime that should be reportable to PBSO and then it's obviously their discretion as to what they do with that report. Okay.
When other people went got called, were they able to identify it was the ex- council member? They said it was and it was about a lawsuit to the town. It was it was asking them to join in a lawsuit
against the town and would ask requesting that they would come and testify and the same number as the text. What does that have to do with identity theft? I don't understand where this all is going. Send it. It was it the same phone number that
the text was sent? I'm sorry. I only have the report given to me by the supervisor and I don't know that the supervisor verified was able to verify the phone call issues. He did verify the one of the active employee on duty, but the phone calls came to former employees
who were still remain loyal to the town and called that supervisor and reported these calls to them. I would be to that supervisor for a screenshot. Well, that's why I think PBSO needs to investigate this. I mean, there's a lot of questions that we're not in a position to ask. So,
that's why I think it needs to be investigated by the sheriff's office. But that's my opinion. I need a motion or a not motion or whatever we have. Okay. And the question is for this one to to turn over all evidence of criminal activity to PBSO so they can or of
alleged criminal activity to PBSO so that they can begin an investigation. We already voted on this. No, we did not. Okay. we discussed. I'm making a motion to turn everything over to BBSO so they can investigate the allegations uh
regarding ex- councsil members uh interaction with staff and Pascal. Whoa. Whoa. No. We're investigating a former council staff. No. What is the What is the The motion is to turn over
all evidence so that PBSO can investigate any alleged criminal activity. Period. Second. All in favor? I opposed. Hold on. Paul, are you a yes or no?
Favor. Okay. Four to one. Okay. The next question is to make a to just have a discussion about whether to turn over all evidence to ethics so they can begin an investigation into any alleged ethical
ill unethical activity. Does anybody have any comments on that? I'm 100% for that. Okay, I got a question. Sure. Okay. I I'm confused where this keeps like steering off the the road. Um
so ethics is we're asking ethics to investigate the anonymous thing the complaint I mean what are we asking ethics to investigate now ethics to investigate the entire situation how it was handled both internally and externally
this okay but didn't you handle it I didn't I didn't say they ethical ethics by responding to a letter sent by my person. What I said earlier was I responded to the attorney because I felt that was the right course of of
action based on a complaint about the manager. We're all officers of the town. So, um Okay. Well, I'm just trying to clarify what is it we're asking for ethics to investigate? We're asking that investigate all of these things. the
text, the the complaint to Okay. Okay. Okay. Whatever falls under their purview to see whether anything I mean that's what I would like investigated. And since I'm sorry you don't think that you brought up whether I did something wrong, but that's the way I heard what you said earlier. So
this whole thing second. Okay. Dina's like, "Oh god, no. Not again. Not again. All in favor? We clarify the motion for me, please. Sorry, it broke up. To turn over to Palm
Beach County Ethics, anything relative to this, the threats and all of those. Madam Mayor, like I point out, Gina from ethics is I think she wants to say something because I can get sense from her face she has no idea what she's supposed to be looking
at. Hi, Gina Lec, Palm Beach County Commission on Ethics. We do not have the authority to investigate or to look into any matter that is not a sworn complaint. We do not have the authority to look into
anonymous complaints unless they are sworn. and that is pursuant to a state bill that was just signed by the governor. If you send us whatever it is that you want to send us, we will do a couple of things. We
will take note of it and send back to you whether or not if you believe that you feel a a ethics um a code of ethics violation has occurred, we will send you a complaint form and offer you to fill out a complaint form and send it back to
us because that's our only mechanism to uh investigate anything as far as anything else. If we feel that there is a processes violation, not necessarily violation, if there is something to do with processes, we will forward it or
refer it to the inspector general's office because they look into waste, fraud, and abuse and they deal with processes. Those are the two things that we will do. If you are expecting us to do an investigation because you want us
to look into see if something may have happened, we can't do that. We simply cannot do that. We do not have the authority to do so. Okay. Thank you. Maybe it's the for waste. I don't know. I just thought
I just thought we might get a a thermometer from them of of whether there were ethical violations. So, do we want to rescend the motion to turn things evidence over to ethics? Well, apparently I would think because they are a motion second.
Let's send it to OIG. Let's let's let's think about that one. Okay. All in favor? I opposed. I Okay, Paul, are you weighing in on that? The motion was to resend it. Correct.
Correct. Correct. Yes, we rescend the Yeah, rescend the motion. Yes, I I agree with the motion to resend the motion. Yes. Passes four to one with voting no. Okay. Why are you voting? No. It's already
done, Phyllis. Okay. Uh the last thing that um I want to do is I want to uh discuss something we had discussed. Oh, and I just want to say the reason that
since Mr. Torcivia brought it up, why I didn't want it at the Tuesday night meeting is that this is the agenda for the Tuesday night meeting. Okay. So, just so you know, we've been here for an hour and 15 minutes. I suspect it'll be over two
hours before we're out of here tonight. I know that in the letter that I received, the one employee complained about being in a three-hour meeting. That that was the only specific complaint made. So, this is a lot longer than three hours we're going to be here Tuesday night. And not only did I think this was an emergency to get full
counsel's opinion on these issues and weigh in on these issues, but I also thought we didn't need to add another two or three hours to this on Tuesday night. So, just so in my defense, um okay. Um I would I would like to make a
mo I would like to have a discussion and hopefully have a motion to task the mayor with engaging in negotiations with the town manager to negotiate and renew her contract. So, uh, discussion, please. Yes. Well, discussion, that's not discussion. We've already discussed
this and my answer was yes. We've already done this. Any public comments on this matter? Madam, mayor, I think you need to make a motion to add add that to the agenda because that's that's not encompassed in the idea of none of these were agenda items. They're all motions that we're considering. I
believe we already voted on this. No, no, we I'm saying is the agenda today reads as what? Discussion regarding discussion of an appropriate response to anonymous allegations against the town. I personally think affirming our
confidence in our town manager and renegotiating her contract is a part of an appropriate response to the threats made and allegations made against the town. So, I think it's very appropriate for us to vote on this matter right now. Do you have a problem with us voting on
this matter? It's your discretion. It does seem as if someone could claim that this was not properly noticed, but if you think that it's part of the agenda, then well, this isn't to approve a contract. This is to begin negotiations. The contract will then have to come to a properly noticed
meeting that people will have a month to write up anything they want to write about it. This is just a a request to in my opinion show our confidence in our town manager and to begin negotiate engaging in negotiations. It's not to
bring forward a contract. It's not to bring forward anything for a vote. It's just to begin negotiations. That's all it is. It's it's very simple. And to affirm our confidence in her. And if the council believes that that fits under the title of discussion of an appropriate response to anonymous
allegations against the town, that's the real question. Does that fit within that? That's up to you all to decide. Okay. I believe this is out of the scope of this agenda tonight. This is an emergency meeting. That's not an emergency. Um, and I think that having
any council member being the one to negotiate, even as the mayor, um, I think that would be up to us as council deciding who would be the one that negotiates the contract and brings it back to council. So that this is out of
the scope of this agenda item. So I I say no to continuing this meeting. We've addressed it with SWAT and I say we should uh make a motion to adjurnn. I would like to uh uh negotiate with the uh manager. Would like to be the one to
do the negotiation? No, I want I think we should have the the council Yeah, that's what we agreed on at I thought I thought the mayor was the one that was uh to do it. Well, we've heard. So So you would you would like to make a
motion for me to start the negotiations? We've heard you want to. Is there any public comment on this? matter. I'll second. Any public comment on this matter? No. Okay. Comment. Oh, please make Mr.
Tivia. Since 2019, well, let's not go off towards the end of the meeting. There was always a consensus or whatever or a motion that was taken for items that were not on the agenda. and your
previous attorney seemed to always allow that to happen. So, well, the concern is that this was an emergency meeting. It doesn't have the normal 72 hours notice and you're talking about something that arguably I understand that it may be within the ambit of that title, but
arguably it's not. So, the only caution is if someone challenges it and they find that this was not within there, the action that you take is void. So, that's up to you. you can consider it tonight or you might want to put it on the agenda for I know it's a big agenda Tuesday but that is popularly noticed
but again it's your call if you believe that falls within an emergency to discuss an appropriate response to anonymous allegations against the town then it's a council's decision all I can do is give you the guidance that the notice that was only a little over 24
hours it's a little bit of a stretch but that's your call okay so once again I believe that My my personal opinion and again this is going to be a vote of five. My personal opinion as I stated is that showing a
vote of confidence from this council to our manager by entering into negotiations not by making any decisions not by ratifying her contract not by confirming her contract. I never said that. But simply by beginning the
negotiations which must be done by June. and it's now May. Um, I think it's timely to go ahead and start that now. That's my personal opinion. Paul, do you have anything you want to weigh in on this? Uh, I I I tend to agree it's not it's not part of the
agenda, so I mean, we're here about emergency meeting, and I don't know. I mean, I'm not totally opposed, but I I agree. It's it's a little sticky wicket. Okay. a week ago. So, I can go on Zoom and continue this, but I can't can't stay.
Well, this is the last thing we need to vote on. So, let's go ahead and make a motion. Okay, she made the motion. I second it. Okay. All in favor of I. All opposed. Paul, what was the motion? You broke up again.
Sorry. The motion is to begin negotiations of the town manager's contract. Excuse me. But it also includes allowing the mayor to make and allowing the mayor to do so. I thought we were all I thought we were all going to be involved
honestly. So I would be opposed. Okay. Passes three to two I believe. Or does that take a vote of four? I don't know the answer to that. Okay. All righty. I can you can make your motion to adjurnn now, Lisa. Okay. All
in favor? I I. Paul. Huh? I thought we had one. Okay. Paul adjourn. I I turn.