Paul, how about if I just read off who's here? We called to order at 6 o'clock. Present for the meeting is Lisa Remy, Todd McClendon, Marge Herszog, Paul Coleman, and Anita Kaine. Um, I'm going to try to keep some like action notes
because that's what we were asked to do. So, I'm going to try to do that. So, if everybody can kind of help me out with that, I'd appreciate it. Um, any additions, deletions, or modifications, or could I have a vote to approve the agenda as it stands? >> Approved. >> Second. >> Okay. All in favor?
>> I think Do we need to vote on it? >> I >> I don't think I'm just doing >> I thought a workshop. >> I'm just following the rules, guys. Okay. Um, >> conducting a meeting. Agenda approved.
Okay. And this is the time where we would like to uh I think the way that please correct me if I'm wrong. The way that I understood this was we're going to open the first portion of the meeting to community input. Um and any concerns that people in the community had. Um so
we aren't doing cards. Is there anyone who would like to speak? Who's in the audience? There anybody who'd like to speak? We've got a microphone right here for you. We thought we wouldn't make you come to the Dis. You can sit down. You can Yeah, you can do whatever. Whatever. You're >> working though. >> You have to turn it on. Turn it on.
>> Sorry. >> We have it for you, but you have to >> Cassie Sushi. Um, I had just wanted to bring it up because it's in my thought right now. I'll probably forget it at the next meeting. Um, and I missed the beginning of the last meeting when you were talking about the um the red light
cameras that they were putting in by the school. Mhm. >> And I went back and reviewed and we were when we were build that or sold that, we were told it wasn't going to cost us anything. And my understanding is the sheriff is going to charge us a time and
a half fee to read those tags. So, I got to thinking it might be better. It's already a school zone. It's already an enforcable school zone. We just won't have a camera. If we're going to be spending somebody time and a half to read those for 75
feet or whatever for >> Can I just interrupt you for a second? That's not quite exactly what was said. >> I missed it. >> Okay. So, here's what was said. The sheriff is concerned that they believe that there's going to be between what Wellington is doing. Wellington put out over $200,000 worth
of fines in their first week. So, they are they've got what three four school zones I think in Wellington. eight or nine. Okay. So, they they've obviously got a lot more. They are concerned that they're going to have to train more officers to read these things. What we
said we would do was we would well first of all when our town manager and our town attorney went to negotiate the contract, they were kind of um thrown this loop that there may actually be an addendum for more charges of the
time of of of costs of training the officers to read the red speed stuff. So what I believe we spoke about at the last meeting was actually looking into other options. That is not our only option. >> Okay. I just like I said what I was thinking and I didn't get a chance to
>> and it did not cost us anything to put it in and we do get money back. >> So but I thought it you know for the the length of area that's the school zone and it's getting harder and harder to get out of those roads in the morning. Um depending on what's the school zone
goes two and a half or three hours. You could use that to enforce along the entire stretch of road and actually benefit the residents of the town because we already have a school zone. >> They had speed things today >> and that. So, like I said, the speed thing helped, but it was just a thought
it might be more beneficial because there is already a school zone there. Instead of paying that money to benefit that school zone which is already there, you could benefit the entire road. Take that, if like I said, you could think about it, take that money and benefit the whole road. I just know just coming
out at those certain hours, it's been getting harder and harder. So, I just wanted to bring that up. It's just a thought and I had thought about it at the last meeting. >> You take that back with you guys. >> I I believe that the the whole thing behind the red speed, if I recall
correctly, the state statute is located in school zones. Correct. So we couldn't take one of those and put it three more roads down to the east and enfor you know that it's can only be done in the school zone. >> It's enforceable by state statute.
>> Yeah. Because that the whole concern was with the cameras versus remember the traffic light cams got deemed unconstitutional or something years ago. And so I think that's >> so quick question on that because somebody said they got a warning but they thought they hadn't hit the zone
yet. Do we know how far that that reaches out? >> Where does it start? Where does it end? >> Where the sign starts and where the sign ends. >> But they said that they said that that happened before it. So I don't I don't know. And we have the training of those guys. >> I don't know how they could know that
because the camera comes on when they cross that point. So >> I don't know. >> I forget who told me today, but they got >> Yeah. So I don't >> Okay. And the picture and you've speeding. They're counting before you
get to the sign. It's speeding when it's not in school zone, but for the 30 miles an hour. So, it it's 40 or 45 before the sign. And they're counting it before you get to the sign as uh being speeding if you don't do 30 before the sign.
>> Well, I mean, I'm not going to get it. I I'm certain that if they're wrong and the person goes to court and fights it that they'll win if they have a picture of themselves outside. >> It's about getting clarification from people like where does that demarcation? >> The demarcation starts at the school zone sign and that ends at the other
school. >> Talking about you were not talking about in the school zone. you were just talking about in general from the 45 zone where it drops into our 30 zone >> them before the sign saying they were speeding going over 30
>> but they hadn't reached the sign >> use the mic use a microphone >> so it gets picked up >> actually it will pick it up >> the picture that was sent to them was sent with the vehicle before the sign >> it's that microphone we can't turn this
off. >> No. What >> happened as soon as she turned hers off? >> Yeah. >> We just wanted a clarification that if the speeding is counted at the sign, >> my understanding is it's at the sign. But also keep in mind it's not just during school zone. >> No, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, >> it it's the whole time school is in
session, not just when it's 20 miles an hour. So, it's a half hour before school starts, half hour after, and that whole window in between. >> This was nothing to do with the school zone. It was They were saying they were speeding cuz they were going like I don't know if it was 32. >> Do you have the picture? It it'll it'll adjust when the school zone stops. It
adjusts to the speed. So at 162nd Terrace Terrace North, right? That's the name of the road. I know it's called 162. >> That's where the 30 mph starts. >> But I don't think the sign that's our town limit. So my point is >> the sign is further east than that
though and that's where people don't understand. >> Oh, I see what you're >> Oh, so we need to repost the sign. >> The county has the >> They did move the sign. So, I'm not sure if they did or not. >> So, so the county has the speed limit in the wrong spot. >> Fired from the intersection is >> what we're saying. I mean, I I I saw an
email from a guy who was doesn't live in the town and was up in arms and now he's traveling outside. >> Um, you know, because, you know, he had been sent multiple warnings and we even said in the meeting, Richard said in the meeting that they they're doing it for a long time ahead of time. So, everybody
get used to it a month. So, you know, I mean, the reality is is that the like Todd said, it starts what? 30 minutes prior, 30 minutes after. So, if you are >> all day in between when that's not just Well, some people just think
it's only when it's 20 miles. >> But the the message says when the lights are flashing and those lights aren't flashing all day, >> but Richard sat sat in the meeting and and explained. Yeah, I I know they're flat, but that's when it's 20 mph or 15. >> A different speed that you
>> But they're saying the camera said it was only active when it's flashing. >> Oh, is that okay? >> So, we just need to get clarification. That's why we get clarification. We get Richard to get, you know, we'll issue some more details. >> As far as the speed limit sign being at that intersection, I would imagine
there's some kind of setback required that it can't be within so many feet of the intersection before that speed sign can be posted. Yeah, I think sign is like two or 300 hund feet east of east of that, >> right? And listen, it's great that that it's a school zone and it's enforceable. The 30
mph is enforceable all the way down Okubby, right? No, I'm just to another point. It's great that it's enforcable. The problem is there's never anybody there enforcing it >> or else we >> there's not somebody there every day all day enforcing that school zone. Correct.
>> Is my point. So this this this enforces that school zone every day all day. You >> just argue about the school zone. I didn't >> we're talking about where does the 30 m an hour start. I'm >> not arguing. >> It doesn't start the whole length of Oak Street except in our town. >> Do we not can we get some stripes on the road that say 30 here? I don't know.
>> Here's where you're missing. I think the 30 mile speed limit is 300 ft east of 162nd. So technically the speed limit doesn't >> So it doesn't start our our town limit. It starts 30, >> right? So is the school zone. >> I wasn't missing that. I was just saying, you know, >> you can't project and say the speed limit.
>> I was actually talking to Cassie's point saying that she's saying, "Oh, well, maybe we could extend it and, you know, it's an enforceable zone and all this other." Yes. >> Okay. >> We probably need to get with the county and put one west of 162nd probably. >> If it's going to cost us money,
>> reduce speed ahead or something like that. >> Well, there is a reduced speed ahead, >> but wait, I get that >> some stripes. I get that, but you know, we can't >> if if it's not being enforced, then it being enforcable doesn't matter, I guess, is my >> Is that how they're getting around the
camera laws as far as like >> because of the statute? >> There's a state that gives you that little tiny >> That gives you that little tiny bit of >> to use the camera. >> Yeah. To use the camera, >> right? >> But it's still who knows it's 30 miles an hour. Forget about the school zone. Who knows it's 30 until you get to the 30 sign, right?
>> Right. And you're already with >> Right. You're already in that part. camera. So, so, so the discussion is that we'll have Richard clarify where it starts and that the signs are misleading and perhaps some striping, road striping or something might be in order. >> Yeah, I got a feeling that we probably
need to have a 30 in the acorage right before 162nd is probably what needs to happen. >> Okay. >> Right. Then it's 30. You know it's 30. >> Exactly. I'm saying yes. But there's probably a state statute that says you can't have a speed limit sign within so many se feet of the intersection.
You start running into that. You know, we got to get with the county and say make it 30 miles an hour from Seminal Pratt all the way through. >> Another 30 miles per hour west of 162. >> That's what it needs to be unless you can put one right at the intersection which >> sounds like we probably can't. And would
you even see it? Well, I mean, if you if there's some way to to to to set if there's some way to say that it starts >> striping. I wonder do striping. I mean, we have speed control. >> Maybe do you know that, Paul,
>> I'm going to hang out until y'all let me finish what I'm trying to say. >> Go ahead. I mean really what I'm trying to say is I to Todd's point in Lisa's point there might be a certain line that you can't cross you know so many feet from the intersection so there
might be a sign that could be had that said 30 m because I I would think that we want to start at 162nd right >> right >> is where we would want it to start right and that maybe that's where it's set up to start >> because that's where the town line is so I don't know if there's something we can
put west of 162nd that says you know, speed changing in 500 ft, you know, or something like that. Cuz I know when you're heading west on 80, when you're heading west on 80, it tells you, you know, prepare to slow, right? Great idea. When you're out going out to
Belg Glade, when it goes from 65 down to 50 down to 45 within a >> a mile. >> So, I don't know if there's something that we could, you know, some kind of sign we could put in that says we could do that. So maybe need another 30 mph west of
162nd or a prepare to slow down. >> There there is a sign already. It says slip >> reduce speed ahead >> but reduce to what 30 by >> well is it reduced speed ahead and then the 30s past the inter is my point. I don't know if we can change it to say >> that's what we were saying. Can we get the county to make it that last little
stretch to seminal Pratt 30 also >> and just it last until folsome period >> road stripes was >> or to Crestwood really it should cuz there's a school zone there those strips in that flatten their tires >> they're going over here
that's some new technology there >> forget enforcing the rad say trip the camera up the road spikes that's it okay just kidding Um, >> okay. So, it sounds like we want general clarification.
>> Yeah, that's I mean, so here's the notes that I have. >> Talked about red speed. Ask Richard to clarify where it starts. The signs are misleading. Maybe need another 30 mph sign west of 162nd or a prepare to slow down or road stripes.
>> And the time when you can be cited. >> Yeah. Not just when it's flashing. >> Okay. >> Well, it was a temporary sign. It said when it was flashing, right? >> No, it's a bar up overhead and the yellow lights flash. >> Red speed red speed. Uh
>> and it said the speed >> speed and force when lights are flashing. Something to that. >> Well, that's not a lie, though. There's just it's not only when flashing. >> Well, that's her provo if you're getting it during that. Well, but is that part of the red speed or is that part of is that on the the >> the bar
>> full zone sign? >> Is it a new is it you know what I'm saying? Is that new bar? Yeah. >> Oh, it's part So, it's part of the red speed. >> It's not inaccurate. They are when it's flashing. It's just also when >> But aren't those on all school zones? I think >> that's that was my >> those flashing lights. Yeah. No, but
aren't the sign on top of it that says speed and force while flashing are on all schools of the school. >> That has nothing to do with the red speed. >> Yeah, that does. >> But you're saying it's a new sign. >> It's it's a new bar, new sign.
>> I think they must have redone them all because the one over in Royal Palm has like they all have the same thing now. But so I'm pretty sure we can't tell them to take down their that has nothing to do with >> young man. But I I did notice >> Well pointed out.
>> I did notice today that as I came up by Red Barn, there was a um a speed checker there uh and it said speed limit 30 miles an hour. And then when I got up to Falsam, there was another speed
uh checker and it said speed 40 miles an hour because you were now in Royal Palm. So they're they're actively doing something on Okobee. >> That was this week. >> Was it a trailer? They official trailer.
>> Speed alerts, right? >> Yeah. >> Imagine that. >> Exceeding exceeding. >> But that may be because you know the speed limit is different with the different uh normal speed limits. So for
for us, our speed limit is 30. So you have to do what? 15. 15 in our town. >> Whereas in Royal Palm, their speed limit is 40 and you could do 20. >> Yeah, I forget what Rick said. >> Yeah, ours is 15 our school because if
you're under 35, it can't be the school speed and above >> 35. It would I think those mobile signs are part of that whole >> maybe edit road enforcement thing that she was talking about last meeting. >> Yeah.
Okay. Anything else anybody want to say? We can talk about anything in this, right? Yes. Right. Okay. So, >> make sure you use the microphone. >> Keep it clean. >> Okay. Can you hear me? Yep. I could speak loud for um Well, I'm really
confused and please correct me if I'm wrong and redirect me. the RV park, not to be stuck on something, but we had that meeting and then the meeting was cancelled and then there was really no reason why it was cancelled or there was no reason given and then nothing ever
happened. So, uh, forgive me for being a little, you know, uh, whatever the word is, but it's it's in my opinion still lurking around. I can't see both just going away. So, what's the deal with the RV park?
>> The developer, for whatever reason, decide to cancel it that day and they haven't rescheduled the new one. I think the town's provided a couple dates for them and they >> Oh, it's still a plausibility. >> The application still pending. Yeah, >> they cancelled because two of us couldn't make it at 5:00 cuz we thought
it was going to be at 6:00. And so they were given the opportunity to reschedu because we did not want to give them the opportunity to say, "Well, they caused some undue difficulty because we had to do it at 6:00 instead of 5." Whereas I my opinion would be if we said no, we need to do it four instead of five. That
would be the hard part. But anyway, so they have not yet reschedled. >> So how many opportunities do they get to reschedule? as many times they want to pay and do it. >> Yeah, they pay. They pay. I'm just asking. >> Yeah. No, I'm I'm just telling you. As many times they want to apply and or pay for a meeting,
>> that's how many times they can do it. >> So, this can go on and on and on and on. >> Yes, ma'am. >> And and how much do those meetings cost? Because they'll never >> I don't know how that number I don't have that number, but it's a cost recovery basis. They pay they pay basically ahead most times. Like when
you do if you want to develop a piece of property, you pay ahead as an application fee kind of like in escrow. >> You have a deposit in escrow. >> Yeah. Deposit in escrow that you know say it's 20,000 30,000 whatever you think the the estimates going to be. You put that in escrow and then you work it
off through the application process that pays for planning reviews. It pays for all kinds of stuff. >> The attorney to be here >> until they literally just say we're not doing it all. Well, I mean until I mean listen, we can say we could say yes, we could say no. We say somebody says no,
then they can come back and they can reapply. It can happen. >> Oh, so it's Yeah. >> I'm just trying to understand. So the council can vote no to this and they can keep coming back to reapply. >> They can reapply again the next day. >> They want to keep spending money. Absolutely. >> Okay. Oh, thank you.
>> Yeah. uh is there any any project >> we and just for clarification we have no control over who applies for well I I I do hear that you do but since this is p publicized I want to make it clear because I get a lot of calls and not
very nice texts sometimes saying why are you letting them do this you >> and I want to make it clear that I have nothing to do with who applies for what in this town nor does any other member of this council We we cannot stop anyone from applying
for anything anywhere. >> They can apply for anything and we have to remain impartial and hear all the evidence before we render a decision or it can be grounds for them getting what they want in the long run. So we cannot tell you what we think about it. We
cannot tell you we're going to vote yes or no. We cannot do any of that stuff because those are all quasi judicial hearings. I mean, can you imagine if a judge went around saying that sucker's guilty before you went into court? That's grounds for an appeal, right? That's grounds for them to get what they
wanted in the first place. So, we have to remain unpartial, unbiased, and really very much m you know, not speaking about these things be and we cannot stop anyone from applying. We just can't. They can apply for anything.
You know, Disneyland could come in and say they want to put a park, a theme park over there and we can't stop them. >> My last question on this >> in the microphone. >> I'm sorry. >> Microphone. >> If they uh come back to apply again,
we'll get proper notice and everything so that we can all pitch in on our >> That's all regulated. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. That's all. I just, you know, don't want to be surprised by it. So, thank you for clarifying that. But I appreciate it. >> No problem. >> I mean, that's that's a good point toward anything, though. Yes, I am.
Right. That's a good point toward anything. There's a lot of lot of lot of things get slung out there on the interwebs and at boonies and text messages and whatever. The the reality is that, you know, no matter what it is, whether it's a a some kind of pending
contract or it's a pending um, you know, >> project, >> you know, project or or it's a it's a, you know, MUD or somebody wants to put, you know, zero lot lines on that pepper farm on the north side of A-Rod, whatever the case may be. Whoever's
sitting in at the deis up here, >> it behooves them not to to remain impartial. I mean I mean >> it wasn't a legal problem. I mean I mean look at it this way. If you say you're going to do one thing and then you go do another and it's like it can cause a lot
of problems. Or if you go out and you know I heck no to everything. No, no, no, no, no, whatever. And you know there's grounds for appeal and things like this. So you you tend to prolong things and you tend to um cause more problems if you're out there stipulating
that you're for or against before the vote has even happened. So to to say that that individuals are um nonresponsive to things, you know, some certain things, you know, probably we should, you know, I choose not to comment on a long
>> also been told I'm for things and I'm like who who told you that? >> Exactly. So >> because it wasn't >> Did they pull their application or is it just >> No, they just haven't rescheduled. >> They just haven't reschedled. >> Yeah. I mean, when you start making a stance as to this, I'm going to vote on things. You're putting the town in
jeopardy in legal jeopardy, right? >> That's what I was trying to say. >> Yeah. >> But there'll be public notice by by law every time these things come back. There has to be so there has to be printed publications of this. There has to be signs put up. It's it's not us. It's a state law.
>> No. And then to further clarify, so come around time March to vote for people and they still haven't, you know, they still have the rights to do this again. How are you supposed to know what the council people stand for if they can't
say yes or no? >> It's tricky. It's tricky, right? I mean, because if if a if somebody that's running for council says, I'm going to vote no against that. you just opened it up for the developer. When they get a no vote, I'm going to sue because it was predetermined before even got on the council or it was predetermined before
they saw my application and saw the evidence being presented and a judge is going to make that determination and say, "Yeah, they didn't get a fair." >> We had somebody running last time on say just say no to everything. If that person had been elected >> and voted no voted no, >> zero decisions that we made would have
been legally enforcable. Zero. >> Yeah. I mean, it it might feel like it's a good political decision, but I in the long term, it's not a viable >> put it's putting the town in jeopardy. You know, it might help somebody politically, but it puts the town in legal jeopardy, which we don't want to do that.
>> I don't know. I mean, that's all conjecture either way, but it >> there is no allo, right? Hopefully, there's not an allo for every hope, right? So then what I hope for is because there are ways of saying things
without saying them. So you know when I hear someone say they stand for rural that to me means not 288 RV parks. So you haven't said it. >> You could be general that way for sure. >> So I just hope that you know when people
run on something and they say it they stand behind it. That's >> 100%. >> Thank you. >> We all hope that. We all hope that >> from from this from this level on up to the high. >> Yeah, >> we all hope that's what happens, right? >> I honestly think the biggest thing that would happen, it just all of a sudden
dropped. Never nobody ever heard anything about it again. And it's like, >> well, neither have I strange too, but people out there, I mean, we come to meetings and it's like, okay, >> neither have we, but everybody else in what I'm talk what I mean is everybody else that sits and watches going on, but
nobody knows anything. >> But neither do we. Yeah, we same questions. >> So everybody out there kind of like what's the status? Staff says it hasn't come back yet. >> The little question mark that pops up. That's that's we get that. So >> I think if that was known more now we're
talking about it. It wasn't talked about. I think if everybody knew about it, there wouldn't be the question. I think that's the problem. >> Us five are holding back like, "Oh, we got the secret." >> They're in the dark just like you. >> No secrets. >> This is This is the biggest conversation the five of us have had outside of town
meeting. Exactly. Exactly. So, >> may as well hold on to it, Cassie, just in case. >> Why don't you all come sit on the front row? I mean, >> on the head. I mean, I I come to all the meetings and I still was clueless. So,
there has to be a way to >> Welcome to our world. >> Let us know. You are equally as clueless as we are. >> Yeah, we we get it. We But >> I think I read a comment. >> To be honest with you, Jane, I that's
what I tell people and they don't hear it. Everybody seems to think that there's some conspiracy or we have some secret. I guess maybe having the five of us here saying the same thing is making is getting rid of that conspiracy factor. But honestly, I have said this same thing to a number of people and yet
they continue to allude that there's something going on. There is nothing going on. >> Not that here. We definitely >> somewhere out yonder. >> Yeah. But we're not privy to that. But we're not privy to it. >> Yeah. But that's what's so nerve-wracking is and I totally agree
with you and I trust you and I believe you, but that's what's so nerve-racking for me because >> well run for office and then you can sit up here and have me in the dark. You could be you could be called asleep at the wheel and go asleep at what wheel? Because no one >> I'm not behind the wheel.
>> Yeah, I'm not behind the wheel. So, >> so yeah, I I mean it is frustrating to be on that side, but there's different frustrations that come from this side. Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> So, >> and I and I've asked and I've asked that several times. When is that coming back? We're still waiting on that. >> No, I ask every time I have an agenda
review, why isn't this on the agenda and when's it coming back? >> I mean, maybe maybe there should be something, you know, in in in there where >> I wonder if there is something that says it that afraid of being it would just say you have to reapply. There are time limits on those applications have to
reapply. It's just more money. >> Welcome to the world of developers in Florida in the history of how this state has got maybe we'll get some positive waiting till the election because they know they don't have a I mean they they feel they don't have a friendly council right now and they're hoping to get
people elected that they feel are more friendly towards their cause. I mean I we can we can only speculate about what they think because we don't know. Yeah, we we don't know. >> But that's that typically that's what they they not them but the developers
and whatever they they will bar you know they just continue and then when they have something in their mind they're just going to double down you know and if they they feel that they can make their money back that's what they're going to >> Is everybody aware of what's going on in Wellington right now in the preserve? >> No again. >> Yes.
>> Talk about doubling down >> carving up the preserve again. >> Is it the the the whole condo thing? GL Homes Homes is now to carve up the preserve and >> biggest biggest developer in South Florida >> publicly traded. >> Yeah.
>> And they own everything from Corbett to Santa Rosa past Santa Rosa Groves. >> Yeah. >> So 4,000. >> Yeah, we know that's what we're talking about. >> That's the preserve. Yeah, >> that's in the preserve. Well, was in the
preserve. Well, I mean, listen, that's I mean, everything they've developed over the past few years was in in an a preserve, you know, and then places like what was that Sunshine Met? What is that? They they complain. It's like the whole everywhere around you is now a development. >> You have to go back to the the
award-winning comprehensive plan in the rural tier. >> Yeah. >> That's where they're developing now is the entire world. >> That's all that's left. Yeah. >> Did anybody hear that Tuttles went bankrupt or is going bankrupt? >> Yes. >> That was something was going around a while back. >> Crazy. They were >> but I heard somebody picked up is
picking up the mantle over there across across the street from roll. So squirrel did yes it was definitely a squirrel moment. I was just like what did anybody do? Did I just >> Yeah.
>> Y exactly. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So >> anybody from the public have anything else? Any other stuff? I do. Let's have it. Um, I'm still getting late agendas. I I really wish that we could tighten this up a little bit. Um, I'm on
volunteer committees. You guys get paid. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate getting late agendas. I don't know if you do, >> but I I need time. I'm getting old. I need time to read and educate myself on the stuff I'm looking at. No, because I take it seriously. I don't want to just
walk in and and listen to somebody talking and telling me what I should think. I want to be able to look it up. >> The committee agenda was late. And how late was it? >> I'm trying to remember when it came through. I >> think the first one was Friday. >> Yeah. >> Um charter review.
>> So I >> I just would like to see things come on time and I'm not sure what the issue >> what is the time factor for it with it being being all of our agendas we set was one week in advance. They have to be out a week in advance. >> Do that for the charter review. I wonder
I wonder >> it was a pretty tough >> They're not doing it for any committee though. They're most most of the time we're getting our things late. >> Uh it's just uh it's very frustrating to me wanting to do my job. >> ULDC is still getting stuff late. So
hopefully >> you know sometimes there's a ton of material especially like the sign ordinance stuff that came forward. I know there was a ton of information with that >> charter. Can you just have one meeting or two? >> They let me toss something out there. No quick.
>> Yeah. Charter second meeting tomorrow, >> right? So, and I don't think there was a big window between the first and second, right? >> Two weeks. >> Okay. So, they had a week to put the agenda together. I guess >> it's the same agenda basically. >> Yeah. >> But I thought it just changed the cover
letter. >> So, there wasn't much to go over then. And what was on the agenda? Was there a lot on there or no? >> That was everything. >> It was it's it's important stuff that I I would like to be able to look over. >> Sure.
>> So, let me toss something out there. I know one of the things that um has been making the agendas late is that there's a lot of often a lot of backup that comes from a lot of different places and some people are more timely and some people are less timely
>> um about getting that backup in. So it's not just like a one person or one department issue. It's a it's a more pervasive thing than that. Um, so would you rather have, and I'm just, please don't everybody jump down my throat. I'm
just throwing something out there. Would you rather have the agenda out on time, but maybe not complete? You know, maybe not have all the backup, maybe not have all the pages, maybe have a, you know, this page intentionally left blank or whatever.
Let me please finish my thought. Would you rather have it out perhaps, you know, on your time on your whatever your limit is your one week before? Exactly. Um, and not be complete or would you rather have it be complete and
be a day or two late, which I'm I'm just throwing that out there for discussion. So, this was discussed by council and we said if it doesn't have the backup, it doesn't go on the agenda. We've we've tried to streamline this. this I know it's happened with councils you've sat
on councils I've sat on you've sat on and yes there's going to be the extenduary I think we had what three items that we got back up for the last meeting that we got handed to us two weeks ago when we sit down and I have an issue with that because when you go back
onto the agenda website like the the links >> they don't put that information up and I'd like that to be a policy tonight that we establish that any handout >> to vote on anything >> but yeah We can >> I understand we're not voting on anything tonight, but I'd like to bring that forward as a policy that
>> anything that's distributed to council, the public has the right to see it and it doesn't become part of the public record. Um, and I think online's so uh cost-effective way to get that information out that anything we get distributed.
But we've also set policy in the past. We were told, I think prior to you getting on, Todd, that um the manager said she can't keep people to deadlines. And it's like, well, if you can't keep them to a deadline, how do we keep them to a deadline? >> So then we don't get information in a timely manner.
>> I think one of the things we were looking at, I even said, how we just got this tonight and you want us to make a decision on it and this information it's well possible. >> Yeah, I feel uncomfortable. Um >> but it's not possible. a lot of the >> having the discussion and saying if it
wasn't ready at agenda time that it just had to be pulled. I do, but call us, >> right? But the problem with that is like a charter review, if there was three items and only one's on there, >> we suffer because there's a a time crunch getting that done, right? So, it's not like, well, it's something that we just put off a month. Something that would be put off for a year.
>> Did you look at their their agenda? >> I I did. >> Yeah. It it was basically what was in our agenda originally, right? It was kind of a repeat of that information. So, it wasn't like they attached a chart. I think they give you guys a charter. Did they give you a charter copy? And I mean there's really not a whole lot of documentation to go back
through, but yes, I mean that that one's a unique situation as an ad hoc committee, but >> if it's supposed to be seven days and it was two days, it's not like it was seven and they got it to you in six. 7 to two is a drastic late. It's not like a little late. >> Yeah. And I know the finance committee has gotten it like the night before.
>> Oh yeah. So >> I mean back when I was on the finance committee that that those things happened and that's a lot of stuff happen overnight and you know and that's what would happen is we would get to meetings and I would just say >> we are unable to have any kind of a discussion about this because like you
can't you can't do that. You can't >> well and thank goodness we don't have the thousandpage agendas anymore. >> Yeah. >> Well that we had a few months ago was almost 1300. It was it was all backup though. If if we didn't have >> just devil's advocate, right? Devil's
advocate. If we didn't have to have a copy >> and I was told it was done based on transparency. So everybody like when we do piggyback contracts with the city of Lantana for putting up fence, you know,
if you know if that's a 40page contract or 100page contract that's going in the backup. So that makes the agenda 100 extra pages. So if we're talking about a piggyback contract, you know that we don't need to see every shall and B and
May and whatever then and it just mentions that contract and it's it points to that contract then that would shrink the size of the agenda right there. So like I remember I know what you're talking about that one agenda was like 13. >> We had two that were over seven. >> Your point because I just want to make sure that I have my notes here. Your
point was that when we are given backup items, I just want to make sure I have it clearly. When we're given backup items that you feel they need to be linked to the website or linked in >> added added into the agenda that's printed on the website
>> when you go to the agenda page and it has the >> we're saying we're not going to let add-ons. >> So, but they provide backup. It's not >> about the sheriff report at this last meeting for the traffic initiative that they provided. Yeah, >> that could be uploaded and there can be a link provided that that
>> they could just add it they could just add it to the agenda the PDF document, right? So if we had a 80page agenda and there's an extra 20 pages that end up being 100 page documents >> should be by link to the published agenda to the website >> supplemental link or something. Why not just add it into the original?
>> It doesn't matter to me. >> Well, maybe get there in time. Todd, I think it's okay that that the original document stay the way it was and then it shows that these were additional documents. We got the we got the fireworks >> addendum section or something and pop all the links there. Nice to be able to
have one document there. >> Like we had the fireworks legislation that was added and then we had a resolution. Remember we voted on that one resolution that was added at the like it was handed to us. It was. >> But my thought is if you have one link, it's everything together instead of oh, I missed this three addendums that over
here. Just put them all on one page. >> Yeah. But I think if we don't figure out that's probably want it added >> as long as there as long as there's something there, right? We got to agree on that. >> I think it's I think it's harder for them to pull the old PDF, add the those pages in
>> alter the P. I agree with you. But if they had just like a blank page built into the agenda at the end of it on the website anyhow and they just popped all those links on the blank page, that would probably be the easiest. >> Can we start altering the agenda by adding stuff in people? >> I think you could do that. But if they have an addendum page and just drop all
the links right onto that addendum page, it's just in the agenda to begin with. >> Well, ideally, yeah. No, we agree. I think we all agree on that. >> But there were several things that should have been in there at the last meeting and they weren't. >> Correct. you know, the sheriff thing, we can't control that, right? >> Yeah. But things that deal with numbers
and spending. Yeah. And that's another thing I'd like to talk about is the consent agenda having spending in it. I think anything that's a spending item should not be in the consent agenda. >> Even if it's a piggyback contract for chain fence that we >> we pulled we pulled off the one to talk
about the um the data, right? We were going to do the data stuff and there was questions about that. It was a piggyback. it was going to be expiring, you know, sooner than what our projected timeline was. There was questions about that. So, to
me, that's a spending one that should come off saying they're on the consent that are second readings and that that have money in them that we've already discussed and already voted on, >> right? And I know that >> we don't want to pull that. I mean, why would we pull them? There's something that's already been hashed out.
>> What if it's just a second reading on something? Could that stay in consent? because you've already got >> but I think we've got those now as public hearings. >> I know >> I think I think the new structure since uh the new attorney came on board is those have become public hearings when they're a first or second reading. At
least that's what I see in the agendas we've gotten so far. So it seems to be a new structure. Um so >> well I mean we can pull we can pull consent items. So if there's something in there that >> you know feel it. I mean >> yeah I mean that was a thing for a
minute but you know from past you know so we can we can pull some consent things I remember the previous council having a fit cuz Phyllis wanted to pull something and it was this big old okay corral up here you know I was sitting out there going what in the heck's going on >> that had become a policy of council that
you couldn't pull consent agenda >> right exactly so I think we have made it that you can pull one person >> it actually in it's in the document it says that consent agenda items can be pulled without a motion >> exactly by one person, right? Can you explain by the public the difference between because you guys talk about
consent agenda all the time and I know those get pulled but I've never understood why >> the consent agenda is supposed to be theoretically the consent agenda is business that has already been discussed already been hashed out and needs to have like a second vote on it you know
like a a second reading or it's stuff that's just like matter-of-act course of business that has that that that you know is going to a proclamation, something like that. So, it just it's just a way to >> get a whole bunch of business done in
one lump. That is >> it seems like it takes that the longest because doesn't require discussion. Well, theoretically, it shouldn't require discussion. Theoretically, in our meetings with staff, we should get our questions answered unless and if there's something egregious obviously and we say, "Nope, need to pull that
because that needs to be brought into the public eye," then we do that. But if it's something like, oh no, that's just about putting a chainlink fence over whatever your example was. Oh yeah, we talked about that already. We got to put that chain link fence up. So it's just kind of a way of getting hopefully five
or six or seven business items done quickly with one vote. That's all >> adding Tracy to the fat committee. >> Adding you adding people to the fat committee. I think that there were like six of those on one of adding different appointees to the committees and things like that. >> Seems like that's what takes the longest
and it gets put to the end. So here we're all thinking it's going to happen in this order and then these all get pulled and then they get put to the end. >> Well, no, that consent is voted on as a lump, right? >> That's why I was confused. That's >> so those are not individ that's part of speeding up the voting process. >> Yeah, you could have you could add eight
items and two got pulled and they get added to the end because there's people sitting out here waiting and so instead of saying let's discuss them now, they get pulled and they get put to the end because there's people out here waiting to do presentations or whatever. A lot of times the way that we try to run the meeting and that I was coached to try to
run the meeting is that to have basically the items and that we're paying somebody to be here to try to go first. Okay. So, if we can vote yay nay on consent and get six of them passed, fine. but then to spend an hour on each
of the other items discussing them. That's why we're moving them to the end so that we can get all the people that are on our payroll out of that are getting paid, you know, engineers that are getting paid by the hour to be here, things like that, and get them out of out of the room as quickly as possible.
>> It would also be more beneficial in the future for like next year dealing with the budget. You're down to the wire and you have all these people presenting. budget meeting should be just the budget meeting, not everybody doing these presentations because those meetings lasted the last it it was crazy.
>> I think that was the initial want but it things changed >> because we were bringing in a new person. We were head we were heading into we were trying to do that but things >> but then you had you had so many people presenting >> it was you talking about when Randy the engineer was giving his report for
>> I don't know two meetings and it had so many presentations Randy and Ron Book >> right right >> that didn't need to happen >> well I don't know if Ron Book did but I can see Randy so if we're trying to look at how much we're going to spend on drainage next year we get a report from the engineer that says this is how much drainage you need so that when we get to
the budget we can go >> yeah we do need to approve this because Think about doing drainage at a workshop. >> It did. It didn't need to be there. It was nearly an hour and a half that night. >> It was long >> just for those two days. >> It's just a It's just a thought. Yeah. Sitting watching. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, if you if you sit and
watch um if you ever challenge you to watch, but the county commission meeting our meetings are long. They luckily, you know, >> they start in the morning though. >> Yeah. They run all day. >> They make a lot more than we do. >> Yeah. But you know, so but if you they
will an item will come, they don't really have a consent that I know of. I haven't watched them start to finish. They they basically will bring something up and it's like item 14B-25. I don't know how they keep track of it. And they'll say, "Is there a presentation needed?" And everybody,
they kind of look at each other and there's no presentation needed. Okay. All favor. So it's similar to consent, but it's like it's like, "Yeah, we don't need a presentation on this. We've done the homework. Whatever. Our aids have briefed us. You know, somebody asked me a question. Oh, I'm like, I don't have
an aid. >> What do you mean? I don't have an aid. So, why why are you meeting with staff? Well, because that's my job that you elected me to do. And, you know, somebody's got to brief me on some things. I'm not all, you know, I think I'm pretty smart, but I'm not, you know,
I'm not Sheldon Cooper. So, anything else? >> Yes. Um, I have an issue also with the agenda on our website. Um, it's not up to date a lot of times and there are two calendars, one on the homepage and one
on the agenda page and they don't align with each other. So, sometimes one has a meeting and one doesn't. Um, they and I've spoken to people about this a few times and I'm not really getting a great answer on why this is not um jelling together or
>> may I answer that one? >> Yeah. So I I believe it was Sammy who um has since um gone on to other things that was in charge of the calendar. Uh so I don't know internally um who's handling that but that that is actually two separate um one is through MUN code.
So if you'll notice when you go onto the agenda that's a MUN code thing which is a separate so they don't those two calendars don't interact unfortunately. That has to be done separately. So, I I just don't know who's >> But should they have the same stuff on them or not? >> They should ideally. And if you'll
notice, the one on the homepage has meeting or event. So, you have to click on either one of those because they're not always they don't always cross reference. >> I always think our page should be friendly to the residents and and me being having to call here to find out
what's where and then they tell me I'm looking at the wrong calendar. I'm like, what's the right calendar? >> I would agree. And that's been pointed out a couple times and it since uh Mr. Brown left that that again has fallen off a little bit on because he was keeping it up to date pretty consistently um for a couple months
there before he left. So >> not anymore. >> Yeah. Somebody needs to take the reins on that again. >> Attrition costing us something. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Absolutely. So >> yeah, it's kind of weird that they have two different agendas. Why don't they just have a link to the other agenda? If
you want something here, >> it's to the calendar, not the agenda. So, well, there's Civic Plus, >> right? >> Which is, I believe, is who does our website, right? So, that's a template that you have to go into and interact with. And then I know that Ansana is
what Valerie's using now, right? The Ansana program, which is your workflow stuff, that calendar doesn't feed into those count. So, none of it is is um cross referencing or interactive. So each one has to be dealt with. MUN code has to go in and I think
>> that's not efficient. >> No. And I think the I think actually the Ansana works closely with the MUN code. I think that's how she explained it to me. But that's not my pay grade. So um yeah, it's just somebody has to be diligent because it's two separate
processes and sometimes you >> want to donate some time to take care of the >> doesn't upload. Thanks. So if you know if somebody just the calendars get up up upgraded or updated on Mondays, right? If that's just a we
have that as a standard. >> I don't know. I don't know cuz since he left I >> when Karen calls Yes. they find out. >> Yeah. But perhaps staff will just have a a standing Monday by noon calendars are updated weekly and that's the only time
they get updated because it's probably time consuming to have to go in interact with the software and then schedule it to upload. So >> are we functioning at a a deficit of um
workers in town hall yet? >> I don't understand the question. >> Is there open positions? Yes, I think there is. Yes, there's always open positions. >> So, so >> it's like getting the restaurant. >> A lot of our problems is
>> open positions. >> Open positions. >> Some people say we have too many people here now though, so I don't know. >> Right. Well, I think it's a division of labor, you know, that doesn't always things people get pulled away from what they've
been assigned and, you know, when somebody's out or somebody's, you know, quit duplication. >> I think I brought my SWAT analysis because I still think we need to be going over that. Um, I think that pointed out a lot of that sort of lack
of consistent >> timesensitive. Yeah. You too, >> I did. Well, um, staff members change quite frequently and when you walk in, you don't know who you're
looking at. I mean, like I met a gentleman at the u the phone the other day, you know, >> he's covering for Angela because she's out of the country. >> He actually he's it was a temporary thing from what I was told. He he works for
>> Well, it would be nice if he had a tag that we could read, you know, to let us know who they are, you know. >> Yeah, >> it's true. Sitting around and you don't know if they belong here or what?
>> Well, I'd like to hope if they're behind the counter, they belong here. >> I hope so. >> At the front desk. >> If not, somebody needs to be given the high sign or something, right? >> Get me help. But yeah, it yeah, he's covering for Angela, but that's another example of, you know, Todd said some
people saying claim that there's too many people, but you know, as far as I understand, Angela is a receptionist slash or she's a permit tech slash receptionist, meaning she was hired to be a permit tech, but she's also answering the phones and taking care of the counter,
etc. And there's multiple people that wear like those four and five hats. I mean, our supervisor of public works helps with code enforcement. So, you know, they're all wearing a lot of hats around here. And I think we did um get somebody to help Valerie. Didn't
they fill that spot? Sammy's spot, Gabby. That's that's that's her new designation, right? That's her designation, right? >> So, and I think they've opted to not fill some others to try and fill others. I don't know. So, it's
So >> you you got a note for the calendar issue online that staff will look into it. >> I do have a note. >> What else? >> It says homepage and agenda page calendars don't sync. Is that enough? That's specific enough. Okay.
>> So one of the things I wanted to discuss was at some point we're going to be in litigation over Okachobee Boulevard. I have complete confidence whether it's a year or 10 years or 20 years. at some point >> or B road. >> Well, I don't know about B road, but um well, we're already in litigation on B
road for the Yeah. Um and I brought it up years ago and I think we should change the name of Okachobee Boulevard back to Middle Road. So, when it goes to litigation, it's very clear this is Middle Road because it goes to the middle of our town and it would be an easy change.
>> Is that a Lord of the Rings change? >> Middle. >> That was the name of it in the past. >> It was middle. It was Middle Road. >> Middle Road. It's putting it back. It's putting it back to its original name >> before it was cut through. It was Middle Road, you know, and the C and Yeah. And
the county took it over and they named it Okajobi Boulevard. >> They put a bridge in. Right. >> Excuse me. Can you take notes while I go to the bathroom? >> So, part of us being a municipality gives us that authority to change that name. >> You asked for it. >> And I'm just wondering if there's a consensus here to do that. >> There's a consensus.
>> A great idea. And and that's part of what it was the rest of your master plan. >> I'm sorry. >> The rest of your master plan for the rest of dealing with Okobee part of it, right? Okay. You know, we have a lot of things that we've already done. There's stuff in the comp plan. It says it has to stay two lane, >> right? >> The county's comprehensive plan defers
back to our comprehensive plan. >> Striping the county has told us is traffic control. We have primary traffic control. Okay. So, there's a lot of things that we've done on Boulevard to protect it. This is just another one of those things. >> Right. So you're talking about at the county level like >> correct us intergovernmental relations.
>> Correct. >> Got it. Okay. >> So yeah, you know, if there's a consensus here, I'll say by getting on the next agenda to change it back to middle road. >> Bring it, >> you know. >> Yeah. >> So >> you got to wear your Lord of the Rings outfit though when you do it. >> Microphone. Microphone.
>> It's Okachobee Boulevard. >> Yeah. Boulevard. >> We've spoken about this. >> Locket Avenue. >> Microphone on. I don't know if it's on. >> It goes quiet. It goes to sleep. >> You and I have spoken about this, but there's still a lot of people don't
understand, and I'm quite not understanding it myself, whereas part of Okachobee is run by the county, but they cannot, and correct me if I'm wrong with my wording, turn it into four road, four-lane road without our That's still
us. Correct. >> They they they can widen the asphalt to 100 ft wide, but it has to stay two lanes according to our charter, not charter, comprehensive plan. And state law says that we have primary traffic control. The county has already acknowledged that traffic control
includes striping. >> Okay. >> So, they could put it as wide as I 95 and we say, guess what? It stays striped at two lanes. >> Okay. So, what is their part with the Okachobee Boulevard? >> What is their part? They wanted it six lanes through.
>> No, no, but what why there's like um >> a marriage heel? What is their part in this role? >> We don't own that road. >> Okay, this is what I'm trying to get. They own it. >> It's their road. >> 80 foot or something. >> They own it. >> They own the road, but we control it. >> We have traffic control.
>> We have traffic control. >> Specifically traffic control. >> A and we put in our comprehensive plan. >> We did the speed limit. They're not happy with us about the speed limit, but we did the speed limit. >> Okay. So unless we want that changed, it cannot be changed. >> Correct.
>> Unless we lose something in court or something, right? So I'm sure at some point it'll be in court. >> So you've driven through Havill and you've driven through some of these other places that historically had a two-lane road and they fight it. They do speed control. They try to limit the the
width of the and the amount of lanes. And that that becomes a local battle against a larger government entity. and and they and they have other pressures, right? So, we're looking at the pressures of we just talked about it, I
think, before you got here, the comprehensive plan and the the rural tier that used to exist that's now the urban tier. >> Um, which they're just pumping in houses and stuff to our west, which is they're looking at ways to relieve that traffic
flow. And um that's part of the pressure that has consistently as Marge can say in her long tenure here has has been an ongoing issue. So, >> and when I was in Orlando um last weekend, that was one of the things that
I kept fighting for in the u in the um um >> legislative. >> Yeah. In the legislative area that I was representing, which was uh code and uh development. And uh you know I kept saying that we're getting run over. You
know our rural town is being gobbled up or trying to be gobbled up with all the rules that Tallahassee is throwing at us. >> So why? Okay. So and really forgive my ignorance. >> Do they own
>> Stop saying that. Please just ask your question. We microphone you have to say into the microphone. >> Why do they own the road? How? Because it's part of the state >> county road. They own They own it. >> It's a Palm Beach County road. >> What? Oh, okay. So, >> it has a right of way. >> Has always been a Palm Beach County road.
>> So, basically all these roads are Palm Beach County road. >> No, that's that and Folsam is the only one >> that and Folsam are the only ones in our town. The rest of them are our roads. >> Toby Boulevard and Folsam are county roads. >> So, how did that happen? >> It happened a long time ago.
>> Long decades ago. Okay. It used to be middle road and it didn't go through. >> The county said Orange Grove. It was two dirt tracks. There were two dirt tracks >> and at some point the county said, "We want this road to continue out to seminal Pratt." They bought the land.
They put a bridge in. They paved it and it's a county road. Way long before incorporation. >> Do you have a picture of Ellie of Ellie Hope and them sitting there in front of that? >> Well, how load or whatever with blocks? >> Almost like a psychological thing. So when we go to court, we don't have to explain to a judge this goes through the
middle of our town. >> Okay. Hey, I guess >> this isn't Okatoi Boulevard like it is in downtown West Bomb. >> So, I guess what do you do to change it? >> We just change it. We We Yeah, we can vote on it. It changes. Google Maps would change. I don't know if you saw how how fast the Trump Boulevard or
whatever on Southern Boulevard. It was like that. My Google >> and I don't know if you heard me speak at like some of the town halls and everything that uh commissioner has. Um but but that's one of the things that I keep bringing up. this is our main
street and you know I've had private conversations with her because I've been fighting her desires for Okachobee which are a little different than ours and I've been having a lot of you know trying to lobby her that like this is not okay and this is why um and uh you
know she keeps saying well it doesn't happen you know just think about what you're asking we need this it doesn't happen anywhere else and I'm like well you know I beg to differ with you let's talk about Royal Palm Beach Boulevard between Southern and Okachobee. That's for main two lanes. Yep.
>> With its nice little stop signs at its 30 mph speed limit. That is the same as our middle road. And Todd's right. If we can get that psychological factor in there and then keep finding other instances like that section of Royal
Palm Beach Boulevard that have remained that way because you know as you all know all of us who have to go out on that lettered road from those lettered roads particularly from the north I mean from the south at least it may be a little bit less convenient but you can go down to southern and hopefully
there's a light but from the north end it's virtually impossible at this time. You add another 5,000 trips to that road, forget it. We're landlocked in the north. >> Because I did I went to that meeting with Sarah. >> Right. And and I have had that
conversation ongoingly with >> Well, it was really it was kind of disgusting with Ardan Court and Westlake demanding. >> Yes. >> And like uh this is why do you get the >> Well, the last one wasn't any better out of Palm Beach State College. That same
guy was there. And the art and court guy said, "Well, we only have one way in and out." You bought there, dude. That that might >> Well, that was funny because that's what he said. Well, you people had to know what you It's like, "Oh, dude, sold the black out." I said that to him, how
angry he got. >> The one the one guy I owned a a property in California and it had a road that was named there and any given time they could have came and busted the road right through and I knew when I bought it. Okay. So Jane, Jane, we have documents in our town like our charter
and our comprehensive plan and our comprehensive plan is the only one that usurps the county, right? So it's about us controlling language in our documents to make sure that we protect ourselves and that's that's what the council member McClendon's suggestion is is that
we use language as many as we can. >> Mayor Kane put it in there too. It it's about us establishing um a mindset and and our protective nature about the middle of our space here. >> Yeah. I mean, fortunately, it was called
Middle Road. If it was called Collecting Canal, it wouldn't have as much impact, right? >> But it was Middle Road, which makes it clear, you know, it's it's even a better impact. >> So, how soon can you vote on that >> at the next council meeting? >> All right. >> You know, >> well, if we're going to do some comprehensive plan changes because that goes in the comp plan.
>> Okay. has I know we talked about um when the comp plan review was going on the um the boundary language was something I think they did by resolution but it didn't end up in the comprehensive plan so that needs to go into the comprehensive plan
>> and um and I think uh Marge that we talked a little bit about you know Tangerine being the boundary for the commercial and um that special >> I don't know how that got moved out of there I That's I don't know where that existed
prior to >> I mean now they're saying it can go to collective no >> they're saying >> that's what the Southern Boulevard corridor that magically appeared in in >> that is not what that says either but that's okay. Yes, it does. To study the area >> studying to collecting canal from
Southern Boulevard, >> but studying it for what? Agriculture doesn't say it. It is misleading. I'll give you that on the website is definitely misleading and I >> Yeah, it is. >> It's intentionally misleading. >> Well, I hope not because that's the direction it's going. >> The direction in the
>> Okay. >> I don't know how uh Tangerine as the uh the northernmost. >> It hasn't changed. It's still there. >> It's still in the comp plan. >> It's still in the comp plan. The issue the issue lies in the issue lies in that
over the past so many years namely two large developments have been granted correct >> that go from collecting canal >> correct >> to Southern Boulevard >> two one >> two >> who >> what's the second one >> state college and Publix >> the college
>> the state college and Publix >> go to >> Publix does not go north of Tangerine >> sure it does yes it does >> it's even with it It sits north of Tangerine. Publix actually sits on the north side of Tangerine. >> And then the the solar >> Avocado. >> No, it's called Avocado, but it's
Tangerine. >> I don't know where the name avocado came from. >> So that that northern one is not tanger. It is tangerine. That northern one. >> That road right behind Aldi's is tangerine. >> It's tangerine. >> Yeah. >> Like if we're to all these is tangerine. >> Yeah, that's tangerine. They call it
avocado, but it's tangerine. >> Okay. So, but the one in Solar Sport, the the one on the north side is the one they they call Tangerine >> or is that the one avocado? Um, >> the one right behind Waw Wa is called Avocado and that's Tangerine
>> came in and asked for Tangerine to be rrooed so that they could put in the development that they wanted. >> Exactly. Because that's how it happened. >> Yeah. But the the whole development goes to Glenn Canal. the whole MU >> county assisted living was north of that area.
>> But that's that's all since been changed and we had no control over the state college. So that we did >> we didn't have to approve the state college. >> Correct. But once they're there >> once they're there could put a 50 story >> hence the new building which is
beautiful you know is is above our height restrictions because they can do that >> right. So, but the thing is is regardless of whether they, you know, move the assisted living or not, that whole project, that whole MUD goes to collecting Canal. >> Correct.
>> So, thereby the the and and I said this multiple times, precedent, precedent, precedent. Nobody listened. And now we have precedent of two, right, that go to collective canal. >> Yeah. >> So, that's, you know, >> that's what's opening us up for
litigation, >> right? But we also have a giant conservation buffer along there, too. >> I I dig that. But it's still commercial to collecting. You're you're preaching to the choir. It's still it's still commercial and it's it's you know, so
>> that's the that's the big thing is trying to is trying to um demark or solidify somehow some way that that this Tangerine to Southern is a commercial. >> Correct. And if you're beyond that, and
I don't think I don't think our our language solidifies it. It mentions it. It does. It talks about it. That could be something we really get to work on. >> But that's the but that's the commercial corridor. >> That's what the corridor is about. >> That's what they set up something that
the whole point is to do a study and to make those demarcations in an official overlay. That is the point of it. >> That's the point. It's not to try and expand it. because only thing's happened so far, workshops and visionings and all that other stuff. So it the idea is that
we have the visionings and whatever >> unless we approve it, it doesn't get done anyway, but it has to get done. >> I think we should instruct staff then to change the language so that's clarified for the public. >> Website, read the paragraph in the website. It is not going the way it's working.
>> Well, then tell them, >> yeah, >> we can get we can edit it. Let's let's review it >> because that's the intent. At least that's the way it was told to me. Correct. The intent is to solidify between tangerine and southern which I
guess >> on this end of things it would be citrus >> coming. I mean we know that for a fact. >> Yeah. I think there's what three or four parcels left. >> We've got some serious problem. >> I mean you got you got you know Brown Holding or whatever that has the trailer
parking. They bought uh Mela's property. So they own all >> that means nothing to me. >> Um Seaw Road and Southern >> the Shell gas station. Yeah. From Shell from Shell gas station to Sea Road and
from Tangerine to Southern. And actually it it it kind of travels that property travels over >> it does travel over Tangerine >> Tangerine a little bit. So you know >> because there's no real road there. the >> technically >> that there used to be then then the
owner the one property owner had gated it off because I mean I used to ride my bike through there four-wheelers and all kinds of stuff horses whatever you know but then they started you know trying to do stuff when they actually that 47 acres that's proposed for both used to they split that into like 315s or
whatever and put retention ponds in the front because they were going to develop those in >> Is that why the ponds were in there? That's why those retention ponds are in the front is because some the guy who owned it before this guy >> that was he tried Yeah. he tried to develop it and he tried to break it up into 315s and you know but that's you
know >> Huh. >> Always interesting history. >> Yes. Absolutely. So, >> so another thing when uh Francine's contract came forward, the rules and procedures for our council meetings were included in that and reading through that I don't know if you guys remember when the council removed Phyllis from
NEAS at a meeting and I was appalled that they did that and I was like how did they do that? Well, in the rules and procedure that's allowed it says you can do that. I think that should be removed. I think if a council member has been elected to be put here, they should be on the dis any time that they're
available to be there. And for three council members to say no, you can leave at will at any time for the entire meeting and for every meeting that they're here on their three-year term is wrong. And I think we need to pull that from >> and the wording says that they're >> for the rest of the meeting.
>> Right. Right. >> You know, not just for the item. >> Right. So you could have a row three three council members that just say every meeting dismissed dismissed every meeting. We need to change that rules and procedures >> that yeah I actually have those on my list as well. >> We want to do change the rules.
>> I think we just need to review them and uh make changes as necessary. >> That on the fact committee before I just my life on that I got to do it again. How did you leave that part where a council can be >> removed? your your point though to the contract um there's
>> change rules and procedures >> there's discussion >> there's language in there regarding um council members it's under definitions council members um
they they can't govern individually but they don't lose their right as an individual to obtain information in the role of governing. Um, so that's not anywhere in our policies and I think we
made the rule about 2 hours for uh record search and I think there's a conflict there potentially. >> So as we go through that policy and stuff I think you know we just have to make sure. >> Can you explain that? I've got the DAS one. I was writing that down when you were talking.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um the >> give it to me like a shortcut. The time constraint for individual council members may be in opposition to what's in the contract for the manager um >> in the manager's contract. >> It's it's in the manager's contract.
>> What time constraint? >> We put two hours for council members to get public records request. >> $50. >> I'm sorry. I was still stuck on hours. You're right. $50. >> Okay. the dollar constraint for public records >> is conflicting with the manager's contract >> with with uh definitions in the
manager's contract. >> Um so I just want to make sure that we don't have too many conflicting policy things. Um >> wait >> so >> definitions and policies and procedures in our contract contract >> it's it's stated in the contract >> in crantine's contract.
>> Okay. Now I can tell you generally when you have two items within something that or two docu that conflict each other generally the most stringent wins right. So you can have something that says that I can I can build this house to
>> this your legal opinion Todd >> I mean that's sorry >> spending more. Okay, allow me to practice. >> Seemed pretty offensive to me. >> It's that testosterone thing.
>> I thought it was assumed that we were lawyers sitting at the table. I'm not a lawyer, but I have to I have a feeling that a lawyer would probably back up what I'm saying, but I could be wrong because I deal with conflicting regulations on a regular basis. And generally, when you have a conflicting
regulation, even within the same code, that the more stringent wins out. Well, I would say yes, except if it's a charter thing like the charter I think would be the overarching. So there there's a hierarchy of some documentation and that correct right and
that that goes beyond more stringent but yeah the charter but this but this is the deal the Florida building code is the Florida building code right >> um and say we want to do an amendment right we want to do locks you groves
amendments which like palm county does >> we can make it more stringent but not less >> exactly we can make it more stringent >> you can't not with 180 >> well not that's true >> let's get on Let's go down that rabbit hole. >> It's not just us. >> We're saving that to the next workshop. I wasn't even going to say the numbers. >> Um but yeah, so you can make it more
stringent, right? >> Yeah. >> So that's, you know, so you know the contract says we have the ability to individually request information, right? >> For the sake of governing, right? In essence, >> you want me to read it exactly?
>> No, you don't. I'm just Am I That's what you were saying. It says that we have that ability. We can't govern individually, correct? But we have the ability we have the ability to gather information individually. >> Correct. >> To govern, right? >> So later on in our policies and procedures, whatever, it says that we're
regulated down to twohour minimum to pull >> $50. >> $50. >> Sorry. >> It started. I did. >> But you know, it regulates how you know it regulates that over here. doesn't say you're you're
individually able to acquire as much information as you need or as you think you need or whatever the case may be. That's my point is so I understand there's a conflict but I'm just saying at this point in time. So, so to that end, obviously, Sunshine Law and and
you've expressed some frustration with this. Uh, it it really limits our ability to to interact freely and sometimes, you know, one of us is bringing information forward at a meeting that that because of sunshine laws, we couldn't do it before.
it is possible on my research, not a lawyer, um that that um information can be shared as long as we're not commenting on it. So, I would like us to look into a potential policy. Say Marge comes across some information
she thinks is important to share. >> He could send it to the clerk, let the clerk distribute it. >> I understand, but I think I think as a council member, we should be able to share it, copy it to the clerk. um because sometimes it's going to be information that may not be so
flattering, right, to certain staff or anything else. And it I I don't want to say that it's it's a gotcha, but I think it's important that that documentation be shared and it not be filtered in any way. And I think if we share it as
council members and copy the clerk, then it doesn't put the clerk in a difficult position that she's making a call. >> So, you're saying we share it with the with the other four and copy the clerk. Correct. We send the email >> and nobody replied. >> Nobody replied. >> I did it one time. >> There's no reply at all.
>> There's no reply. >> I wasn't I did it one time. >> I wasn't saying it. >> No reply. I didn't even remember that. I'm just making the comment. >> No reply. >> I got excited. It was like my second email. >> So I I'd like us to explore that. That is a possibility. >> I think we need to get Jeff to
>> blast that one. >> Ask the attorney >> about sharing info sharing. I know how he is and I know what his answer is going to be as right. I've had conversations with him very similar to this. And I'm like, Jeff, if there if there's no response, what is the issue?
It's no different than me getting interviewed by Channel 5 and Anita hears it on Channel 5 than if I say it to her directly. Long as she doesn't respond. >> It's like >> I feel strongly as an >> That's his feel attorney. He's the town
attorney, right? >> I feel strongly as an elected official that we are put at a disadvantage. Oh. Oh, sure. >> Right. And we get played and we get different information. And I know that the agenda review had been a way of dealing with that in the past, but that means somebody has to
give up more time to go sit in an agenda review and we're all present and oh, you can't vote and we saw that was happening in the past and we don't want to go there. >> Yeah. I think that's we could put Jeff on the spot and say instead of your opinion, show us case law that says we can. >> Yes. Exactly. >> And and we could say, "Sorry, we're going with our own opinion on this and
this is what we're going to do." Well, that's all the lawyer could do anyway. He doesn't stop policy. >> I get I get that. But my point is if he can show his case law or attorney general opinion that's you know that agree with him, right? >> We could go by it. Otherwise, we could say, >> "Sorry, Jeff. We're overriding you on this one."
>> So, that's a possibility. So, I guess I ask Jeff if there's any case law or anything that backs up his position that we can't have one-way communication. >> Fair case. >> Yeah. For one-way communication. >> So, was there anything else that you had? Because I have a couple things. >> Go ahead. Um I do. But I I know that we
we all saw that um committees started meeting again after a long hiatus, shall we say, from previous councils. Um and I think that uh Paul, you talked about wanting to get into a deeper dive into the budget. And so I'd like to see us
tasking committees with with certain things that we like brought back to us. >> Yeah. I mean, as far as I understand it, and I was told when I was on uldc prior to council, when I tried to bring something up, it was you're tasked by council. >> Yes.
>> You know, I I couldn't I couldn't drive Jeff to go a certain direction and get this pulled in. Forget exactly what it was, but let's start working on this now that we've done this, right? And he goes, "No, that's a that's a you have to be told by I said, "Well, then who do I need to get to say it, Jeff, cuz I mean, tell me where I got to go, who I got to
talk to, and I'll get the direction." But he was emphatic that it's council >> driven. So, so for example, um council voted to a 5% reduction. So, could we get like finance committee to review the 5% reduction that's being proposed by staff, right? and or finance also comes
up with their suggestions and that that we get that information to consider. That's just an example. Um I know that we've talked about the electronic fund transfers that have been going on all predating us with no oversight. Um and they've been going on from the research
I have for four years with like almost 80 vendors receiving electronic fund transfers >> by was itund correct. Um, so things like that. Um, I know credit card statements don't get reviewed. Um, and while a lot of that
may be in the budget, I think the transparency there is is important. So maybe we come up with a list of of things we want to task committee with and then we decide amongst >> how do you know that they don't get reviewed the the credit card? >> We don't. >> Oh, we don't. So somebody from state
>> if we sign off on a credit a check >> I haven't signed any checks >> because everything's EFT. the majority of stuff is getting >> signal a lot of checks but I always I always look at the backup and I always look at all the details credit cards there's zero statement with the credit card
>> do not pay the the credit cards I thought I just meant >> any checks I do sign right like I'll give you an example I just signed one tonight that I was very unhappy about signing because the backup was somebody's handwritten notes >> and that person was very upset and
complained to council about a certain council member about not getting paid in a timely fashion and didn't understand why they weren't paid. >> In my opinion, the person should not have been paid at all >> because another counselor, there were no receipts. >> I didn't ask for that person to be paid.
I said for clarification, >> it was a hand note of, you know, I spent 52 cents on this, I spent $5 on that. So, there was this big big thing where I was actually called over from work to sign this check to get this check signed and out because everybody was worried
about this person getting sir getting paid. I'm all about paying CIR, but I'm also all about having backup. And so, I did sign the check because I wanted to back up my fellow what I believed was backing up my fellow council member and get this taken care of. Something they had made a promise to a citizen that
would hand >> Hold on. I never Hold on. I never made that promise. I said, "Could you please clarify why this has not been paid?" If I had been told there was no backup, I would have gone back to the gentleman and said, "I'm sorry, they're waiting for backup." >> There is no backup.
>> Well, that's a check. The first check was made out to the person. >> Yeah. >> No, no, they didn't. No, they didn't. >> They had you believing that I was demanding he be paid. >> No. Okay. >> And you didn't have all the information.
All I said was click why he's not getting paid when I was presenting the check not it was made out to the >> person as opposed to the organization right which were pulled back in to sign this check made out to the organization
>> we got it done. So my point being I looked very carefully at the backup when I signed checks and that is one that under normal circumstances I would have never signed. No, >> I wouldn't have decided either said to me >> that you did this or did that or to the
other. What they said was that this person went to you because it had been a long time and the check was not >> done and they said it I said why wasn't it sign why wasn't it cut and they said because backup wasn't provided and this was all that was provided and I said
well I wouldn't have cut the check either. said, "Did somebody communicate that that's what was lacking and needed to the person?" And they said, "Yes." And I said, "Okay, let's just do it." But they make it very
this one time, but make it very clear that in the future there will be no because something that is in our we actually have a line item in the budget support. um but make it very clear that in the future if there isn't proper recordkeeping on their part that we will
not cut them any more checks. >> I can tell you that was never shared with me which is why I asked for clarification from staff. I didn't demand that a check be written a cut. I nothing. I said this is what I've been informed. Please let me know why this is happening.
>> Right. Well, I got >> Now you know now you know the whole ask a question to force the check to be it. It goes along the lines of what I think it was last meeting I was saying. Is there a clear-cut procedure as to that
that dictates what's needed for us to cut a check? >> Yeah, it has to be backup. It has to be approved by two different department. It has to be approved by the the right. >> Yes, there's a whole procedure to give you the procedure. I don't need Yeah, I don't need the My question is but you
say it says it has to have backup. >> Does it define the backup? Well, the backup isn't somebody's handwritten notes. I listen I'm not fighting you. I'm not fighting you. I'm My point is is I think >> have a PO or a backup. Yeah. >> A PO or a backup meaning some kind of
receipt or whatever. So that that is well because it seems sometimes, not this instance, but it seems like sometimes that you know, and I was trying to explain this to somebody the other day, I go in and I ask for the X. Right. >> Mhm. >> Right. I'm Joe Schmo. I go in I ask for
X. I I need to do X. What do I need to do? Oh, you do this, this, and this, and this. >> Right. Right. >> Get different directions from different people. >> Karen comes in and goes, I want to do X, which is the same X that I'm asking for, and she's told three different other things that that's needed. >> Right. And that has people feeling like other people are getting preferential
because they only had to do X and Y, and I had to do X, Y, and Z. Correct. >> I think the majority of people would agree handwritten note is not good enough backup. What? >> Or is that even like even like >> we're very sorry, you know? It's it's
it's it's us five people, whatever. We lost some receipts. Can we do this at one time, please? Whatever. >> It's just like here here's your handwritten ledger. And I I get it. It's not even like they're scanned in like, you know, something. Yeah. So, um, one of the other concerns, um,
that was been discussed is we went to the employee model six years ago. >> Wait, excuse me. We just went through that whole long thing. Was there something I was supposed to write down from that from that discussion or no? >> No, we were just talking about EFTs overight and that sort of thing. >> We already talked about that, but we
already talked about the last meeting. >> Tasking committees. Tasking committees. >> Okay. Tasking committees. That was the thing. That was the thing. I I I I just don't know how much I agree with tasking the committees with that stuff, but I guess we can certainly discuss it. >> No, I think her point is right now they only work on what's tasked, right? Who's
tasking and we should be prioritizing what we want. >> The tasking should go along with our part of my list was >> that I I don't necessarily agree with committees with all the things we just have talked about here. So, you know, noting right now, so I'm certainly
willing. know what I'm what I'm what I'm saying is and I don't mean to jump ship but it you know I one of my things was and it's been brought up multiple times >> since we got here right and and since we started asking for this meeting and we finally get to have this meeting you
know the priority list right >> and I think >> one second what was your what was your example of what you want to test committees with I'm so sorry but I just got to get this >> the 5% reduction we want to do that >> assist staff with coming up with the 5% reduction Okay. All right. Okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
>> Yeah. But no, it's it's it's cool. >> You know that whole priority list, I think if we can nail down the priority list and and you know, even if we just say this is a great priority list, but we want to put these 10 things at the top and and just rock on those that's going to direct
>> and I think >> those committees want to ask to have that 120 item party list on our next agenda or however many other over a hundred. Why don't we just ask for it for our next workshop? >> Let's Yeah, let's do that's what I was going to say was can we get it for the next workshop and like really focus. I
think this and because I think we're just getting our feet wet here today. We got about 30 minutes left. >> I think this right here the the spot and the priority list need to be our focus. >> Okay. Is okay with that for the next Can I Can I put a little kink in that though? um with the priority list cuz we
have to have a strategic plan in place um per the found manager contract by March >> is it the 29th? >> Um >> well this talks about some strategic planning >> sub and that ties in with the priorities and that yes and I think that'll give
staff a little more time to implement some stuff that's mentioned in here that they are already starting to reimplement so to derail >> yourself back to the list for next workshop plus the SWAT analysis. So those are our two key items. >> Two key items. >> So back to the employee thing and this
goes to the charter review committee as as we have dipped our toe in this charter control and the council control and who can we reach out and touch and who reports directly to us and the fingerpointing that was going on and the
concern about how that fingerpointing was was derailing things to use your term. Um, I would like to look into a task the charter committee with possibly putting on the town clerk as a charter officer and potentially the finance
director, but I'm concerned about that because if the charter says you have to have it, do you have to have it? And are we are we locking ourselves into having another position? >> So, yeah. Yeah. So, >> Oh, >> yeah. Yeah.
>> Don't even go there. Well, a budget officer or somebody that has to report directly to council, right? I think this year our budget being presented >> charters have the clerks in them as a charter >> as a charter officer because I think there is so we were looking over and at
at a workshop that Todd and I did. We were looking over a lot of other towns. Um, you know, they give us some examples of a lot of other towns and just about every one of them had the town manager, the town attorney and the town clerk as charter officers. And I I went back and
looked through ours and the clerk has mentioned but I don't think they're called a charter charter. >> They're by fate they're an officer. >> It makes sense, >> right? >> And they have are tasked with the public records keeping and stuff. So I would like to see our charter review committee consider that as one of our options for the upcoming charter changes.
>> So to touch on that, um, one of the meetings I was at last weekend, they're trying to they're trying to push >> second. We got to do that pretty quick because they meeting tomorrow night. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> They meet tomorrow night. So, >> so do we want to add it? Try to add >> last minute agenda.
>> Do backup will be provided. >> Do you want >> Do you want me to expedite that? Yes. >> Do you as a group want me to make sure that this is communicating to the charter review committee for their meeting? >> I think Todd is gonna talk to that.
>> Oh, no. Sep kind of separate from that. What about the town clerk? The town clerk's association is trying to get it where the clerks are exempt from public records for their home address and that sort of thing like right like like every Have we done a resolution to support that? Do you know? >> Yes, >> we have. Yes. Okay.
>> All right. I'm going to call tomorrow morning and see if they will put this on. Karen, sorry. >> But you you heard it here first. >> You heard it here first. You were right here when it came up. So I I know one of the thing that's on there and most I don't think anybody can speak about this. Um
>> one of how many members do we have? >> One of the things is talking about changing the four to three on the charter officers for termination. And something we got to keep in mind. So with the town manager, you probably could find a thousand attorneys as opposed to one town manager because there's so few of town managers in in
state of Florida. Um, and when you make it easier to terminate a town manager, you're going to have less applicants because they don't have the, you know, they don't have the the harder threshold to get rid of them. >> Yeah. And this is something that you're going to have to pitch if it ends up going >> No, I know. I know. But I mean, this is
something that that that needs to be looked at making that change because if you're a town manager and you're going to apply to four different places and one of these three people can get rid of me and the other four it takes four people to get rid of, I'm not going to apply it to three. I'm not going to bother with it, right? Because I don't
have the job security at that one. So, it's lessening our pool of potential applicants. If it's going to change, maybe the best thing to do is remove it from the charter. That way, if a council said, "Hey, we'll approve this contract." And in the contract, we'll say it takes four to get rid of you and
leave that open to open to the council who's negotiating >> and the charter not specify that. >> You you could take it out of the charter completely. of the charter, but by resolution, I mean, we have to put it on the ballot. >> No, no, I understand. But c can that be removed from the charter language?
>> Yeah. So, instead of taking it from four to three, just remove it entirely is my point. >> So, then it would be on a contractual. >> Yeah. But you're counting on always having a council that's going to >> But but they're not if they can't get a town manager unless they give the four, well, then that's what they're going to have to do.
>> So, then each manager candidate can negotiate that. >> Correct. Correct. Because if it says in there three, it couldn't be negotiating their contract. It couldn't it couldn't say four. >> Correct. >> So I think if you're going to change it from four to three Yeah. >> you'd rather just take it out. >> Twist. >> So you could leave it in there for you
could do it for three for the attorney because there's thousands of attorneys. We can find those all day. Sorry, Jeff. >> Just got to pay the money for them. So also add to the charter thing to consider just removing the >> Yeah. Instead of going >> removing the removal clause basically.
>> Yeah. Removing the manager contract. >> The manager part. Is there a way of suggesting that it can be negotiated? >> No, it is that would be part of >> right that would be part of the >> the process of >> getting a town manager. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Well, I think we need to that on that note, I think we need to work on coming
up with >> some kind of set contract type of thing instead of this. >> Well, I think League of Cities can provide you with templates for and by the way, we're getting on the elevator with somebody from Westlake. They are have an open position for their town manager. 200,000 plus car allowance
>> and something else. A $400,000 package. >> But they're paying, aren't they paying a a management company? >> They are. It's going to be a contract. Another contract, not employee. >> It's just a contract manager. It's not a company. It's just a contract for a manager, >> but their town clerk works for a
company. Clerk, everybody is by contract. They have no employees. All of their employees are by contract. >> And they're pulling in a lot more money than >> and they don't have a they don't have a dependent district. Seminal improvement district has their has their own, >> right? But a little bit more than not, >> but they don't have >> just a hair.
>> They don't have any benefits pay either, right? >> Right. It's it it's in correct. There's no benefits because contract. So it's it's there's some contract. >> So it's 200,000 plus car alliance. I don't know what the car allowance was. He didn't even he didn't say he said something about it being over over
$400,000. Just over a $400,000 package. >> Oh, $400,000 package. Right. So what's the car allowance? I don't know. I saw that. Is it a Rolls-Royce or what? >> I saw a story on her. >> Nice car, >> right? >> You want to get that job, >> right? But keep in mind, they don't they don't have that seminal improvement district has their own
>> manager. Plan deadlines first. >> Yeah. I'd be curious to wonder how how that's assessed because those lots are this big. >> Right. >> While while I we have have us all together, there's a couple things I wanted to >> go over if I could.
>> No, for strategic plan. The first one >> is I don't know if everybody's aware but this is Florida City's week. Happy week >> one of our goals during this week is supposed to be spread awareness. So >> hold on Jane give us a sec.
>> Oh I'm sorry. Did she have something she want? >> Yeah. >> Oh, go ahead Jane. >> You said it's slightly above. Westlake is 9,299 residents. >> Is it that much? >> I was being sarcastic, Jane. >> Oh you were. I always pick circuit. >> That's why I looked at Tracy. I'm like
slight slightly >> that's triple our size. >> Yeah. So >> that's what happens when you have one house per like a third of not even >> 50 ft. >> 50 ft a lot. >> There's two other things. It's like my work relationship. I I've been
manager uh practice managers etc. Nobody ever got paid anything unless they brought in receipts for their expenses. And I've also, and I've discussed this with Todd again, um I had an employee
who got unrongly charged criminally and she was put on probation. No raises, no nothing until that was cleared up. I I don't This is not rocket science here. I don't I don't get it. >> Wait a minute. She was charged, right?
>> No, she was not. >> You just said she was charged and then she got cleared up. >> Had an investigation. There is no investigation. >> Your investigation's done. >> There is no investigation. >> I'm not even talking about I'm just
talking about like the trans. I don't think things should be so hard. >> Yeah. Well, let's get back to the expenses. >> Francine under investigation. >> There is an investigation. >> There is no investigation. >> Done. >> It's done. >> It's over.
>> There is no investigation >> from the state. >> There never was an investigation. There was a case number assigned. There was no investigation. Anyhow, but >> I just don't think so. You know, when I had a car with my
company, if I don't give them gas receipts, I didn't get >> I agree. >> No, we Yeah, we we concur. >> I agree. >> Investigation. And until that was clear, she got she didn't get a raise. She I kept her employed and it was very unfair
to her because she did nothing but she was so grateful for staying employed and then once it was all rectified and she was clear she then got her raise she then got her time. She then >> that's nice that they fixed it
>> but she didn't get anything until all that was rectified. That's that's just my point in general. It's like this is not hard. It's just, and this is, I think, part of the problem with the residents is there's not a lot of clarification. I mean, we have one
person saying there was an investigation, another person saying there wasn't one, and it's what are we supposed to do? >> Well, I I think it comes along the lines of of what we were talking about when we first started out. you know, there's there's some stuff that we can clarify,
some stuff we can't clarify because of ongoing investigations, non-investigations, whatever the case may be. You can't, you know, you got a contract pending that's coming up. You can't, you know, you can't make determinations based on
on hypotheticals. You have to have, you know, concrete evidence in front of you. um you make a determination on a hypothetical, you open yourself up li you know liabilitywise and things like that. So I
think you know to to to ask ask to clarify what's going on with this. I understand the frustration. I think we were all frustrated up here as well trying to figure out what's going on etc. Um you know because you're one thing from this person I'm one thing
from that person. And I get what you're saying, but you know to to you know just where was I going? >> I don't know. My I went like this. I'm sorry. But you know the the idea is is is you know I don't think it's so hard. I think I
think every I think a lot of folks made it hard. I think a lot of folks made some assumptions of of of of the people sitting at this table um based on, you know, I don't know what it was based on, but because we weren't coming out and going, you know, uh burn somebody at the
stake or whatever the case may be or, you know, tar and feather them and send them down the road, you know, it's it's, you know, it and that's what happens. That's that's that's the world we live in today. um you know, things get thrown out there, uh whether they're right, wrong, indifferent, um and a lot of
assumptions are made. I I think for us to sit and make assumptions and accusations out loud, um in the effort of being clear, you know, I think that's not the proper thing. >> If she drowns, she's a witch. If she floats, >> she had a text today that said that the town manager is being criminally charged
with three or four counts today. >> You're never going to dispel it, okay? Because people are Unfortunately, but to for the ones that want to know like myself, how could these things get worded so that it's understood? It's
like, you know, when we did the contract for the manager, when we did the contract for uh the lawyer, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, done. >> Boom, boom, boom, done. Ma'am, that was not a boom, boom, done. We met on that lawyer contract multiple times. >> Like five.
>> Yeah. Okay. that dead or worse. Repeat that or maybe I'm being naive. >> No, I mean listen, I think we all would have liked you >> can say is just keep keep asking questions and just talk to multiple people. I would definitely not consider
just one source for all your information. You know, just like you don't just watch Fox News, you watch a little NBC, you watch a little CNN, you kind of get all the news and then you put it all together to what you might believe, right? or what you might think is the most factual and it's usual some
usually some kind of meeting in the middle. So I would say just keep asking questions and don't count on one news source as your source of news if that makes sense. >> One of the loudest news sources said what we're doing here tonight is not legal but we can't do this. We cannot. The five of us can't sit here and meet.
>> Yes, we can. >> I know we can. right? You know, >> but a person who is represents himself as our news source, one of the news sources in town said this is illegal what we're doing. >> And also said that we can't give back money on the on the trash collection. We can't do that. That's not legal.
However, the town's been doing that for years, just not to that extent. Right. So, you got to think about your source sometimes and you got to start questioning those sources. >> Well, and I'd like to thank whoever >> Yeah. Yeah. So this is why I put it on
so I can get the clarification and I can listen to you and then I can figure out whether I trust it or not. >> Well, and I think I would like to think that the five of us sitting up here that we aren't going to act on any >> Well, I this was great.
>> Well, and we can't do this every time, right? I mean, this is great. This is kind of why we wanted this, but >> you know, every month >> we're going to do it once a year. Yeah. And I and I think we have and I think you know I think you're going to see with the five folks that are sitting up here and hope you know maybe we're all
sitting here after March. Maybe we're not. I don't know what's going to happen but as we move along you know >> she's not your turn. >> She be sitting over there >> going like >> can I just handle >> but I guess all right. Yeah.
I don't >> but it but it was good for the five of us to be able to talk. Yeah. I mean I'm I'm happy. >> No no no offense to you guys but the whole reason we did this is so that we could talk and it's no I mean like you guys have been great and we appreciate interacting with you but the whole point
is that we can't talk anywhere else. And many of us prior to sitting on this board together were people who talked all the time. Yeah. you know, about things in the town, you know, or even as as I when I was on council before this
one got put on, he was he's always been one of my go-to people for information. And I was like, well, now who am I going to go to? You know, because he's like an encyclopedia, but you know, I can't talk to him outside of here about anything but, you know, hey, how's your kid doing? How's my mom doing? Kind of
stuff. Which go, >> right? like there's a couple of like feelgood like detail things that I kind of wanted to take care of tonight because they're imminently coming up. So, can I do those and then if we have any moments at the end because we said we were going to stop at 8. So, first of
all, happy Florida Cities Week everybody just to make you guys all aware. Our mission in Florida C's week as as representatives is to spread the awareness on what local government does. So, I think tonight was a huge success in doing that. So, thank you for the
acknowledgement of that, Jane. And um and maybe you guys can spread it further than here. And maybe we can all spread it further than here, too, on what what the powers of local government are, what we can do and what we can't do because I think it's really important. And I think people a lot of times expect us to do things that we absolutely can't do. You
know, I mean, I have people all the time, well, you need to do this. Well, I I can raise awareness on it. I can call, you know, and and bring it to somebody's attention, but no, I can't get this taken care of for you. If if I told you how many of those calls I get a week, you'd be amazed. Um, but anyhow, I I do
try to refer them. I do try to follow up and make sure that they got called or, you know, spoken to or whatever. But whatever. Um, December 14th, get your calendars out, Todd. December 14th is the Wellington parade that we usually ride in. Now, the year last year, what
we did was we we wanted to do a float on the cheap because we didn't want to cost the town any money because councils before had spent a ridiculous sum of money to be in the parade and we didn't want to do that. So, we've got the flatbed. We we decorated it with like bales of hay
which we got donated. So, you know, anyhow, this year it's celebrating the season through the years. So, I'd like to get us all up there on December 14th with in mind that we have a flatbed celebrating the season through the
years. I don't know. I thought a couple of us could be like dressed up like kids playing. I don't know. Whatever anybody comes I I I'm not sure. Like you could have beards on. We could put a little white on your beard. You could be like two old rocking show. March. Wait a minute. We'll put March in a rock.
Whatever. Anyhow, start thinking about what we might do and maybe next time we'll talk about it because we have to start letting public works know how we want them to decorate our flatbed for us. >> Yeah, because we can't even talk about this outside of here. >> We can't talk about this outside of here because we might special meeting.
>> We have a special meeting might expend money on it. So that's why I wanted to get in your mind. So put it on your calendar for December 14th. >> Celebrating the seasons. >> Celebrating the seasons through the years. I mean last year was like rock things. So, we dressed up as like rock rock stars and put plastic guitars all
around it and it cost all of like $200 to put our float together. Got the hay bills donated. So, again, me being cheap, I want to do it on the cheap. I don't want to cost the town any money again, but let's try to think about some clever ideas for celebrating the seasons through the years and hopefully we can all
>> and public works seem to enjoy. >> They did enjoy decorating it for us and everything, but we got to give them a clue of how we want them to decorate it. So, if we can know by when will we be doing this again? Um, the second Tuesday of November. I know, but what's the date? I'm trying to see how much time
we'd be giving up. >> Is it would December 14th at the parade? >> Sorry. What were you at? >> What would the November meeting be? >> Oh, November meeting. >> 18th. >> Oh, the workshop. Yeah. >> So, that still gives them a couple weeks. Okay. So, let's make it like hard and fast by the 18th. We need some ideas on it.
>> Huh? Oh, wait. You have an idea right now. All right. So, what if we picked um like uh Home Alone? >> You're in trouble. >> Like we could dress up like the Home Alone. Yeah, like the Home Alone characters. >> Yeah. The bad guy coming down the fireplace.
>> Yeah. One could be a bad guy. >> I mean, I I don't really know the movie that well, but >> we And maybe we get some kids to, you know, come on the float with us. Yeah. >> Kids for that. And I think if we I mean, what was that movie from like 2000? >> No. >> No. older than me.
>> Older than that. >> No way. >> For real. >> For real. >> It was we could just like have a home alone on it like so it identifies what we're doing. But because that's like an age that's like a >> we just
vacation Christmas vacation even different ages or something. >> We could get we could get an old books an old wagon and put a tree on top and somebody be Griswald. Yeah. What? 1990. >> I call Randy.
>> Yeah, there you go. >> Little ring. >> Lord of the Rings does Christmas. >> Okay. So, let's come back on the 18th with like some real song. Watch the movie. Watch the movie. See how realist
So, we're gonna get So, what did what was the date you said? The 18th. >> 18th. Yes. Okay. So, float ideas, Craig. I'll I'll call Craig and let him know that we'll get those float ideas to him by the 19th. So, we've got to like have on the 18th what we want, >> look through the Oriental Trading
catalog and see what kind of direct we want to order. Last year, we threw turtles, little plastic turtles, which are pretty inexpensive and candy. Um, so we might do that again just because turtles is what we are. Um, so anyhow, come with your ideas on the 19th on the 18th so I can have the ideas to him by
the 19th, but they can pressure wash the thing at least to get it ready. Okay. And I'd love to get all of us out there if we can all do it. Last year was not all of us. >> Well, like we could have like a couch and a little fake fire. >> You could have a couch and a fake fire table. >> Whatever. Granny and her rocker.
>> Granny and her rocker and >> burglars. I got stuck on Griswald. I was like, I want to be Randy Clay. >> Hey, Clark. >> What year was National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation? That had been from the early watch that you have to watch that.
>> Okay, so we got some movie watching to do and some ideas to generate. Okay, guys. And then the other thing is the um Saturday the 8th of November is our founders and Veterans Day parade.
So, um, our parade is going to start in this medical center parking lot right here. It's going to go, it's going to be short and sweet. It's not going to be over there. It's going to start here. It's going to go down Citrus and it's going to end at the park, which is where our
founders day is going to be at the park down here. So, it's going to be very short and sweet. Okay. Hopefully we can get some people out on the parade route to watch us this way as opposed to wandering meandering the roads with nobody there. Um, anybody who wants to
join me in the parade, I don't know. I I could either go in I went in a vehicle last year and let it with a sign, but I also can ride. If somebody wants to ride with me, whatever, let me know. We'll figure out. But start thinking about that. that we need to figure out
probably by well really soon. So, um that I think you can talk to me about if what you want to do, but that's definitely an all hands- on deck thing. We tried to do the program last year, so like everybody had a part to read, everybody had something to do. Marge and I have been tasked with um
>> the list >> taking the veterans list that was assembled last year and trying to like >> delete and add as needed to it um >> or categorize >> or categorize by who's alive, who's dead. >> Yeah.
>> Maybe by service um so anybody who wants to help with that >> and there must be >> would be greatly appreciated. >> Duty kids. >> Yeah. And especially the younger generation. That's what when Margie and I were talking preliminary last week and we were at a workshop together and we
were preliminary talking about that was where we really missed. We got a lot of we got the old and dead guys last year, but I know there has to be more like younger active duty people in town and and we really didn't. So, if
anybody knows any way we can tap into that or figure that out or can tap into it and figure it out and get it to us, that would be great. But that has to happen sooner rather than later because that's rapidly approaching. >> Okay. Those were my business things that
I just wanted to get covered. >> Is there any way that they can put a notice on um the town website to um >> I can ask them >> call >> call in names. Some of our Facebook friends could do that.
[Laughter] >> Call in names. Give up. Do you mind him giving your phone number to call Marge to be added to the list? >> Well, >> Facebook friends out there, would you be willing to put a post up to call Marge with >> If I don't recognize the number, I don't
answer. I get too much spam. >> Can they text? >> Can they just text me? Okay. Karen, can you have it be text her so that she won't think it's spam if it's somebody? Yeah. So she knows it's real.
>> Okay. Just say yes. >> Yes. >> Thank you, Karen. >> Arm twisting. >> And we need a cut off date because they want the list like yesterday. >> Well, they got to contact these people, right?
>> Yeah. Contact and they make something. >> Let's say by like next Friday or something like that. They can they can deal with that. >> Yeah. Next Friday week. >> Next Friday's Halloween. >> Yeah. Have it be the 31st. Karen, could you have it by the 31st of of by
Halloween day? >> No, but to tell them to text her, >> tell them to submit >> submit their names by then so they can be included on our list and be honored on Veterans Day. Something something along those lines. Okay. I know I interrupted you, but I just wanted to
get those little business things taken out. So, please go right ahead. >> I just have two things. One, Todd comment. You keep saying that you're going to give people money back. I don't even know what the word you use from whatever you were trying to do with PBSO. Would it be more beneficial and
cost savings if you just did a rebate on the tax refund instead of now paying somebody to cut checks and everybody get a re a refund on a check? You're you're now >> spending a lot more money paying someone and then you're spending that on a
check. >> We've already adopted the 450 for the for the garbage assessment. You can't change that. >> You can't do a rebate. Yeah, but we're doing a rebate on that 450, but we can't we can't reduce that tax bill that's going down. >> Yeah, we can't use the property appraiser to do that. >> Well, we could have done the 450 down to down to $50, right?
>> But due to time constraints, that wasn't possible. So, >> so maybe in the future >> in the future, we could >> it would be cost because what you're talking about >> decision has to be made first. The way the decisions are made seems to be like all out of order, but it's the way that they happen. It's mandated by state law >> because to me now we're spending a lot
more money paying someone to cut the checks, do the checks, now send them through the mail. It just kind of crazy. >> It is, but because of time constraints and because we're, you know, going to try to get out of this contract, they're just we already had to adopt a 450 a month ago, right? >> But is it even going to happen this year?
>> That's the hope. We only funded the cap for two months. >> Okay. >> So, yeah. >> And then my second thing I have to say, thank you. This was probably the most pleasurable meeting I've ever been to. >> And I think you guys have gotten more done tonight with what you've did, what you've done. Hello.
>> Than any town council meeting ever. So, thank you. This was this was amazing. >> Vote on. >> Well, no, you're talking about things. This is things we don't get to do in committees is have conversation where we have the people over there running it and telling us what we need to do and what we need to think. And it's not
conversation. This is a conversation. and you guys have gotten more done by what you're conversing about than having sitting up there trying to deal with everybody else in the room. So, thank you. This was by far the most informative meeting I've ever >> free form helps for a lot of things. I
mean, yes, pre-formed agenda getting business done is is important because you have to get those things done, right? But to have the have the free form couple hours, I think is that's what I've been asking for since. >> Well, and I think people don't understand we're the executive board of
the town. We're our meetings are business meetings. >> Yeah. >> So, this is not that format. This is us by law. >> A lot of business done. Of course, to me, it's a lot more done than any other meeting. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, while we still
need answers from staff, you know, I I I think this has been long overdue and I appreciate it. >> So, Anita and I were at a League of Cities event last weekend. >> Two weekends. >> Two weekends. >> Two weekends ago. And and somehow this,
you know, what we're having tonight came up and there was a couple of the council members at other places were like, "Yeah, that's we need to do that at ours, you know, and I got a feeling one's going to call us and say, how did it go?" And >> you know, I'm gonna give him a great response. It went fantastic. >> Yeah.
>> Because it because it could have went south, right? We could have had somebody that comes in here and goes crazy, you know, about some the next fire for next month >> and we wouldn't have gotten anywhere, right? So, I'm glad. >> Well, that's that's the key. Yeah, >> that's the key is every everybody, you know, that's what we've been talking
about for the past couple months, you know, in the comments, too, is at the end of the meeting is just >> if we can all be respectful and civil and get your point across, everybody's got an opinion, right, >> Anita, don't leave it. >> We don't always we don't always agree. I tell you, Todd,
I don't agree a lot. We've had we've had arguments in the past. Cassie and I don't agree all the time, but if we can all just, you know, put our point across and everybody has, you know, meaningful conversation about it and we can come to a mutual decision about how to move forward, I think we're going to accomplish a lot. >> It allows us
>> and don't know what >> Oh, come on. >> We didn't build it. So interesting that you say no. I honestly just got done reading a book and it and it and it's it's actually called the Lucifer effect
and it I and it's about how good people behave evil evily and it's fascinating. The psychology of it is just fascinating. But that is the crux of it is that it's a situational result. Okay. And that is one of the
things they point to. So the whole thing started there's a thing called the the Stanford prison experiment. And the whole thing started the guy who wrote this book is the guy who did the Stanford prison experiment. So he was at Stanford University psychology professor
and he took 10 kids the same kid basically by any other factors. Right. Okay. They and they all did like psychological studies first, you know, tests to make sure that they were all of, you know, the same type of personality and even personality. But
half of them got guard uniforms and half of them were prisoners, okay? And were put in classrooms that were changed into cell whatever, you know, they they made like celllike conditions.
They had to shut it down in one week. >> Well, there's a study >> in one week. They had to shut it down because of the brutality of the boys and the hierarchy. And it's and so the whole book is just an exploration. I mean, it looks at Nazi Germany. It's again, it's
very fascinating. It looks at the Nazis the the Jews themselves who killed other Jews because I mean it's fascinating, but it's all situational. I mean, it's it's really a little scary, but see, when you talk about that situation
compared to this situation, it's situational. So, let's all think about that as we move forward, right? That we're still the same people. >> But it's just like >> and read the book because it's fascinating. So, I'm sorry. >> Clarifying for these folks that came to
me, we're not going to do the workshop before the next council meeting, right? >> No, this is the opportunity. This is going to be the workshop community workshop as well. >> Is this the community concerns? >> So, our meetings will start at six.
There'll be the comments on non-aggenda items, right? But we are not going to do that 30 minute window. >> No, we're not going to do the comments on non-aggenda items. We said we were going to do away with that, too. We're going to go straight to business. >> I want them to understand that. >> We're going to go straight to business on council meeting nights. you'll still
be able to comment on agenda items, but all of your non-aggenda comments because we want to give >> we want I mean I think our philosophy is that we want to give we want to give its own time like and its own consideration and this is really the best format to do
that you know I mean instead of it just being >> 20 people stand up in front of us and complain about this that or the other and we really can't say anything about it and we just kind of got to sit there and look at you this way this is perfect because it's interactive and we can actually like talk about it and plan
what we might do about it in the future. I mean, I think this is beautiful. I think it's a beautiful thing. So, >> well, that's conversation. >> Yeah. >> I mean, we we have so many questions being over here that we don't ever really get to have that conversing thing with you guys. So, great. >> Well, and we we did a study um or the
clerk did a study of other towns around us and how they conducted, you know, their concerns. And uh it's surprising that uh we were doing more to try to deal with the residents,
but we >> they were feeling like we were giving le >> Yeah. >> Some of some people we have to deal with and then there's and then there's you all, right? But it's I mean, yes, >> I didn't mean that negatively at all. I mean, it's I didn't mean that
negatively. >> It's all about being constructive, right? That's what it's about. >> Said that we wanted was to be down here and be a a circle. Uh and I I thought we were going to have the the residents um be part of this.
>> Well, we we tried, but we actually when Annie and I were setting it up, we were like, that's really only two seats. So, what do we do? First two people, why don't we just have everybody sit where they want to sit and do whatever. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> 801. >> 801. Motion to dismiss.
>> Motion. All >> in favor. >> I >> Thanks, ladies. >> Oh, wait. Grab that microphone, Todd. Oh, there it goes. Thank you, Tracy. >> All right. Yeah. Thank you.
>> All right. So, um, do we want to get together? Yeah, you're my >> jeez.