one of in on all the way up past IND down giant Mr chair whenever you guys are ready just let me know okay chance I was say we read
this all right good evening uh everyone watching everyone here good evening uh like to call the March 3D meeting of the unified Land Development code Review Committee to
order if we could all please stand remove our covers for the pledge of the ladance pledge United States of America to the rep for it stands Nation indivisible full call please
Sammy committee chair Paul Coleman here committee Vice chair Joe cisano Committee Member Robert Austin here Committee Member Karen plant town clerk assistant Sammy Brown Excuse me let me back up uh Committee
Member Brian zow here town clerk assistant Sammy Brown is present committee staff liaison Jeff CTS I'm here all righty Mr chair we have a quum excellent uh just a quick question about the agenda don't we usually approve minutes before we approve
agenda uh tonight you don't have any minutes for approvable but at your next meeting you will yes sir okay just checking all right so do I have a motion to approve the agenda as it sits it's uh item one is the discussion
of the rule Vista draft and item two is discussion of the sign code and if we have an a motion in a second then we can discuss the agenda yeah so move discussion all right no
discussion the agenda as a whole not about the that we just got no not yet all right uh no discussion all in favor of approving the agenda as it stands I opposed hearing none motion
carries 5 zero all right item one discussion and review of draft of rule Vista guidelines um what you have uh is the revisions
that we uh had discussed at the last meeting um and uh I do apologize uh that we did not get this to you um and every time I thought I would have uh
some time I didn't um but that's uh that's my problem that's uh not your problem but I think we can still be productive with this what you're looking at um I didn't do it in
a um pure legislative format because the uh when you put the strikethroughs in I think it confuses things so what I have done is where where there are modifications um to it I have underlined the the
modification so if you look at the first page and what I want to do is just walk you through there's not that many of them um in the second sentence uh development of commercial and Civic uses on property is necessary for the
sustainability of any Community but such development shall be well planned and invoke thoughtful Design Concepts that will enhance and maintain the town's rural nature for do to your direction I didn't realize you were just jumping right in let me let me ask a question so
you said we we this isn't imp pure legislative form so this isn't the final document correct and I you got to understand my apprehension Jeff my apprehension is over the past since we've
Incorporated constantly and it's nothing against you you haven't been here that long you know we hear of this isn't how the document looked when we first saw it or when we know so transitioning to legislative form I actually thought we were going to see the document we we
were proposing to approve to the council you f you follow what I'm saying not yeah when I all right so so you can explain that okay because it sounds like you know if we say okay we like this we might see something different when I
when I refer to the legislative format on this um what I'm just talking about is the the strikethroughs and um uh the underlining that you will see in the document the redlining of the document what I did with this document is based
on our last conversation at the last meeting um I have inserted and and um underlined the changes that were made but I did not strike through the
previous language so that we're it it's able to be read in that way when you talk about um this document when we get it into to final form that's what we're trying to
do is get the language um in there right I I get that but I I thought we were I thought we were we were approving the final draft tonight I thought that's what the we set this up what two two meetings ago or whatever and we said you know this is important we want we don't
want to drag our feet and listen I know this isn't the only thing you guys are doing that's not what I'm saying but what I'm saying is is we we as a collectively as all five of us said you know we we want to get this done yeah we want to get it before the council we don't want to you know because
theoretically again I I'll say it again we said it meetings ago theoretically there could be three different people on this count on this Committee in two months right I mean theoretically this document if wait you're not addressing
what I'm saying you understand what I'm saying theoretically there could be three different people from from me to the right right there could be five new people well there could but yeah you know you know just I mean just thinking
about it you know the two people whose Council people didn't are not leaving would probably stay if they wanted to stay so let's use that as a constant right so you know just the way the odds work three of
us could be leaving right because just the way things have played out in the past few months so we were looking for something that was more of an approval document and to say that the legislative thing takes out the old you can strike the whole old one because this isn't even laid out the same as the
old one it's laid out different right it's a whole new document it says a lot of the same stuff but it's the it's a whole new document it's laid out different Etc so to say a legislative form would be striking through the verbage we're pretty much striking the
old document and creating a a new reform document correct yeah okay that this is my this is my frustration here I mean aside from not getting I I I get that you know and then okay so let's just go through that and I just want to say my
piece I mean does everybody agree with what I'm saying Yeah final yeah I think this was the last this was the last before the election this was the last right now this this was the intention was to be able to say yes this is exactly what
we've been talking about since November right this is exactly what we've been talking about put this to council right that that was our intention right now we're going to say Yep this is what we've been talking about okay let's see a draft so the next next time the committee meets not necessarily I think
you might be able to say that this is the final if you're satisfied with it but this isn't the legislative draft oh that's you don't have to worry about that that's not something when you when you talk you're talking about putting in it when I set forth to approve something to approve a document
I want to see the final document I don't want to see something is going to be transitioned in this thing no when you talk about when you talk about putting it into an ordinance form is that what you're referring to what you said I'm using the term you used you use the term legislative Jeff okay when I was using
legislative format because what I'm you could also I could have also said Redline format without the um without the strike through and that but as far as if you are if you're concerned about I would I would not
anticipate that um the ordinance itself the form of the ordinance would come before the the committee the important thing is this document to be incorporated into um an ordinance that
would be presented to the council typically what we would do with a document like this is when it goes up in front of council for the first time we would put it in this kind of a format we wouldn't worry about you know what
sections we going to be modified and those kind of things because it comes to them and says this is the work of the the committee take a look at it if you're satisfied with the work of the committee then let's put it on for and get it into ordinance form and you know
I misspoke perhaps on the the legislative um concept but this this document um could be approved tonight if you're satisfied with it I'm sorry for my confusion I assumed we like I said I assume
understandable considering the language I used yeah because I when you say legislative form I'm expecting to see you know what I see when a code section is revised in the building code there's strikes there's you know all the new stuff is in red there's strikethroughs
on you know Etc you know new new is defined old is stried I mean it it's kind of the way it's laid out you know so that that's what I was expecting yeah well because we are G to this is is going to be a new document so it's not um an interlineation of the previous
document okay all right I I'll be quiet no sorry it's so okay um so uh enhance and maintain uh was put in going down two lines uh uh two in the
second sentence after that development shall take uh into consideration an attempt to preserve and maintain the existing viable tree canopy um and then skipping the next sentence uh pedest and friendly
enhancements such as walkways Trails porches benches Boardwalk box outdoor Gathering areas shall be incorporated into the development projects when possible and then we added a sentence to segregate um the equestrian amenities and says equestrian amenities and Trail
connection shall be considered when a link to an existing or proposed equestrian Trail is near the proposed development sure on it well um I'm sorry so that little last
sentence when a link to existing or proposed equest is near the proposed development you know so if they right should just the the the the the idea that I um
added to that that and this is why it's before you for discussion is um uh that if there was a development and there was no equestrian Trail through which you would get to the
development um and none planned why would you make them have uh an equestrian amenity or consider an equestrian amenity that was the thought process that um you
know it would it should be linked to a method by which the um the writer could actually get to the facility and so and that's one of the things that we we are going to be considering and that there's
another committee working on to uh revamp the equestrian trail system and and and establish it uh so the thought was let's make sure that there is some semblance of connectivity before you
have somebody put in uh something for horses if they're never going to get there yeah but for some reason there isn't something near it now and there may be later then they don't have one it'll never be linked well
that's why that's why I've got the Lang that's why I've got the language or proposed equestrian Trail so if there is a proposed equestrian trail that is going to to connect so let's just hypothetically speaking
right so currently I mean I'm not sure exactly maybe the equestrian Trail is Tangerine Boulevard but you know I mean because it goes down West D it goes down six cord and then up West d right for connectivity purposes and then it's
supposed to go down D not sure but you know I mean I kind of get what Joe's saying this says when so if you have a stretch of pro stretch of properties right and this one gets developed and this one gets developed right but
there's no nothing there's vacant on either side and there's vac in the middle so nobody discussed a trail nobody said oh we'll put one in whatever so now these others go in so now we have no Trail because the way it's written it
says when it's available right no it says when a link to an existing proposed equester Trail so if nobody's come through with any kind of proposal to develop said vacant properties in between these two here right and nothing
on this side so they're like in the middle they're like little Islands you follow what I'm saying and there's no proposed Trail on either side okay right you see where you can make that argument I I I understand that but if you look
at I think there if you look at the uh the versions of the the trail maps it is proposed not not set in stone as to when it's going to happen but it's proposed that on the west side of all the
canals um there's going to be an equestrian Trail okay that's okay well this is speaking to commercial property so right now that that's not a understanding right so and you know we can talk about whether uh
uh it it also applies to properties that are have been developed or the type of properties that have been developed along okobi because there are nonresidential properties because this doesn't just apply to commercial this is
nonresidential properties all right I don't want to get into a thing about I got you I got you but there's a trail so on okachobee you got links and you've got the there's
proposed that there might be um a good linkage on one side of um okobi Boulevard and there is discussions right now about horse Crossings um along okobe
so okay so in that area you have the the the linkage if you come down and maybe I may I may be talking myself into something I mean I I could pull up a map and I could show you the disconnect there right and what you're speaking of I I I know exactly which properties
you're talking about and I'm talking about properties up here as well I can show you the disconnect in what you're saying so somebody bought something in the middle right I mean you know there's a property that just got developed and and it's it's just finished construction
whatever you know there and there's no semblance of any Horse Trail there yet there's semblance of horse trail right down when you come off of d Road but but any other property there's no semblance of proposed Trail no no let me just let me just here's here's my thinking on On
th those particular things there is proposed Trails on the west side of every single um Canal okay there is a proposed trail with connectivity all along okobe right currently there's so every
property every property has okay take but then take o discussion I'm talking about our front anyway I didn't even okobi is supposed to have we were trying to get a trail all the way down okobi so that wasn't even on my my
mind right so talking about our front all right so let let's talk about what we have right now there is a a trail um through the town center properties okay um so if you are going to develop
nonresidential properties that is close to that we would be looking for links um there you have a trail that is on this park
property um and there are discussions and anybody who who's developing any potential large pieces of property in between there are discussions about proposed um
Trails the one property and I may be wrong on this but I think the one property that is non-residential at this point in time along um Southern in that in that area along
Southern that I don't think you'd ever reach by a trail um would be the p park um down there I'm not sure there's a there probably not you have cross a-road Canal for that so yeah that's I mean
that I I I get what your development it just say the amenities and Trail connections shall be considered it I if you want I was just I I get what saying but to me that kind of leaves it open though shall be
considered I get where Jeff's going I get what you're saying I'm saying we need to be somewhere in the middle that kind of solidifies it that you know not to say that oh well if you come with us with this use change but you put a trail in it we're going to say okay not to say
that but to say because I'm I'm telling you that I I haven't seen the trail map in a long time but I can tell you there there is some disconnect right there depending on how we're saying the where the trail is running the trail could move off of Tangerine if you
know um I don't want to say his company's name the big metal building on Southern on Southern if the W if this north side of that had some kind of Trail connectivity pulling them off of whatever so when those Residential Properties eventually sell one day those
other people are kind of so you come across the bridge and you lean into a trail right because there's no yeah please there's no connect this this Trail here it connects off a citrus so Citrus is the trail it doesn't connect over to those other properties you
follow what I'm saying so the connectivity really isn't there because we're utilizing roads for the trail so I guess where I think where she was where Joe was starting off was the word when it's kind of like so if I'm if I'm a developer I'm looking to develop this
property and I go through the code all my people would go through the code code and we're looking at the code and it says well when a link is is existing or proposed okay let's look at these there no nothing going here there's nothing going here there's nothing going oh there's no link here so
hey I don't need to do it and when they come before the council and the council says where's your Trail you're up here there's clearly people have put trails in where it doesn't say I have to put trails in well but remember remember on the review process and it's you do you do go through staff you go through DEC
you go through pzb all those things it's not going to be hopefully at the council level that that's the first time they're talking about a trail and at the same point in time there may be properties that when you look at them and you go oh they're
not near any place that a horse is going to get to so why would you impose it there that's no I I again I get what you're saying I get where Joe's going I think there's got to be I don't know it sounds
too it be to impose a trail I I mean and let them apply for you apply for a CH you know let them ask not to have it let them argue there's no connectivity to a trail so do we you know I I got to put a trail in the middle let them go to staff
and say your code says this my property has no connectivity to a trail I'm going to have this Trail in the middle of nowhere or future connectiv there's no way that F because I'm on the on the north side of okobe Boulevard
and there's no you know no now we D somebody else trying and they're trying to develop out a property and they you wanted to come off the F Ro I think it was F Road or yeah eoad you know Trail canal side the maintenance easement and make a trail in there and they thought that's what was
going to help get it along and it was making some Headway you know they did but then a lot of us were going where's the trail going going to die in okobe you know so it's it's I don't know if it's if it if it's your consensus to um have it apply to every single property
we can have you know we I think it applies let them let them let them argue to you know part of the review process is going to be what they find in the code that they can't live with right am I correct that's part of the review process they go through and they apply for the waivers yeah right and a lot of
stuff's in there is they apply for variances in that process whether it be one or it be 20 correct one of those variance applications could be to eliminate the trail I'm saying put the onus out there on them we we we sat down here in
October before Brian got here I think it was October no I we sat down when we started this and said that we wanted to push forward to make sure that we start filling the holes filling the gaps in our ulc right and making our ulc work
for us and not for others correct yes so I I think if if we set this you know as long as it's not you know breaking a statute somewhere which I don't think this does I think we we put restrictions in and if they want to apply for a variance
then they let them apply for the variance at their time of application that's that's part of the application process correct how about this equestrian amenities and Trail connection shall be considered for uh a link to an existing or proposed
equestrian Trail period beautiful well it says Shelby consider I considered it but I don't want to do it well yeah Trail yeah is Trail or future Trail going to be
there should be shall be implemented not shall be considered considered means yeah may or may not allowing room for I don't know I was if they're too far south or nowhere near a trail and they can just say hey it doesn't apply to my property it doesn't
apply to my property then you just give them the variance okay that makes sense you're nowhere near the trails the trails that they want to build are nowhere near you okay but you're the ones that are right there like he's saying fill in the holes are they proposed Trails okay equestrian
amenities and Trail question uh connections connections shall be um implemented when a trail is there or future Trail is going to be there through their property yeah that that we're basically changing considered
and when to implemented for I know what Implement you know what I'm saying I don't know considered is all must consider shall be proposed and implemented for [Music]
uh to provide equestrian amenities and Trail connections shall be proposed and implemented to provide a link to an in uh an existing or proposed equestrian
Trail they nowhere near it say so what that's saying is you you have to give us a um equestrian amenities and Trail
connections shall be proposed and implemented to provide a well you have to when whenever you're going through the pro planning process you are proposing something something for approval and then once it's approved
it gets implemented you want to use a different word for proposed the first time since we're using it tely shall be designed and implemented no I get where he's going the the proposed is is speaking to another process process yeah I I yeah I
get what he's saying proposed and implemented I'm sorry um shall be proposed and implemented to provide a link to an existing or proposed equestrian Trail period here the proposed develop no I'm
just Kidd I want to hit propos one more time I was um equestrian amenities and Trail connection shall be proposed and implemented to provide a link to an existing or proposed equestrian
Trail yeah that's the proposed part proposed me that's yeah and and one of the reasons I used propos for the equestrian Trail is so that it's not necessarily something that is on the existing right you got
you got three applications in at one time so this one these two over here are proposed now you're proposing one yeah all right that sounds a little stronger yeah I like that a lot better okay thanks Jeff that's what we
through this more all right on the on this the next page um I just was thinking there I think we changed a I just was expecting an underline underneath there five acres or less now that was that was always there and then
what what had been there oh wasn't that the last underline of that on yeah that that was the last modification on that page I think I think Joe oh I I should have said all the shell I mean all the shs were changed to Shell
um except for two and I'll Point those out to you when we get to them okay um we ran in a color toner it was part of the other the 3% didn't we change five acres or less
from 25 to 35 uh no um the the developments on five acres or less were 35 as my uh my notes show and what it had said
is developments on more than 10 acres were at 50 feet right um and so somebody accurately pointed out that to to Jeff that there are uh you know lots that might be
5.27 eight Etc not just five and 10 um and so what I what I point what I changed it to and what we had discussed was that developments on more than five acres it's a 50 foot and you're saying the five acres or less has always been
35 because no that's 25 2 25 that's what I'm saying I was expecting an underline underneath 35 no because this is the this is the this is the change from the last discussion you're right that's a change in the standard that we would uh point out you would have found
that stricken strucken stricken did that on purpose he would have found that stricken if it would have been legislative copy right Jeff yes okay um on page
three uh we got we got rid of um the the um now the hipon the one that we hip on
Deck hip on Deck hip on Deck uh because we weren't sure of what that was um and we inserted on um so there's a on on subsection nine there was a
removal of the hip on Deck so it is now uh you may have a hip gamil or maner roof um and in 11 instead of saying hip on Deck roofs uh we change that the maned roofs must be a minimum of three
feet and maximum and a pitch of of a maned roof what we will get to and a is um the discussion of the definitions um which I included in the back of uh or
the on the last page uh of this and you know one of the things I ran into when I was looking at the pure language definitions and all that um it got very confusing for me again so um I want to
walk us through that when we get to the definitional section which will be at the end um uh the next the next change was on page four in 2.1 standards um the second sentence talking
about plank walls the maximum allowable length of an under interrupted building elevation is 25 ft it had been 50 feet as originally proposed and you all recommended the 25 ft um there
um and then on page five uh there were all development projects uh under standards uh 3a1 all development projects shall provide Pathways or Trails allowing safe
passage and then the insert was development projects encompassing more than 10 acres should include an outdoor Gathering Place such as a courtyard Plaza or covered area with seating um so that that was the line of
demarcation uh on those that we had identified before um and then on page six five we I have this on M on um a standard Subs three all development
projects regardless of size should provide I thought we put the word sa pedestrian access for it says it it now says all development projects regardless of size shall that was one of the changes um provide pedestrian access
internally and connectivity to adjacent development some reason I thought sa in provide safe access but well thank goodness there's codes that building codes and stuff that yeah make that happen um
page six yes uh six as B1 the use of natural wood is encouraged over painting the wood or simulated wood material because it's yeah but it's not they don't read that yeah they don't yeah that's yeah
you're trying to be like grammatical well no I mean we can as oppos is encouraged as opposed to painting the wood or I can put that in I don't have problem with that I'm sorry it just sounds like encouraged over
pained okay then that's me it sounds like you're overpainting wood you know the way it reads you know yeah I know well in in just make sure you don't pause throw Aon in there something don't put a com after painting is isn't yeah is encouraged
instead of or in Li of there you go which one do you like the L or the stad I like L but some people didn't tell me I get wordy so yeah rather
than I'm okay with any any one of them I think that's rather than yeah I think that's understandable okay we got two edits so far not bad I think it's three but that's okay okay
well we're on page seven Jeff yeah I know you sat there and took my barrage yeah um thank you um on five uh on on page seven um A5 on the port uh porch railings that was one
place that we had uh agreed that should it should be should instead of shall so I just wanted to yeah because we're not naring it down I mean there we can't say that one the outside of our
building's metal right right um on what regard to this regarding for railing all right we can come back you want to come back to it it's fun yes because as about town hall okay so we we we'll get through and then we'll okay maybe save that for new discussion or
something on page uh on page eight um it would be A2 uh the native vegetation screening requirements in this section must provide and maintain a dense screen
screen I think just maintain aent screen the same thing screen this is this is I and I don't know the interpretation of this but this is probably one of my biggest pet peeves if we think about the development down this way uh at the corner of B Road there is certainly not
a dense vegetation screening at all um it's it's it's almost not existence where where you know if you think about the Chipotle and everything that was built in Royal Palm down on Southern down here you literally almost can't see the buildings it's a dense vegetation so
you've got a town that certainly you wouldn't consider rural anymore um doing a better job at it so I don't know how that could be um what's the word I'm looking for um um how that can be pushed uh and after the fact when we already
have it down here how it can be brought back up but but that's that's a huge one I think I think that brings the rural look into it a lot is sure having the commercial and Southern but but having the dense screen so it's just not a maybe if they come asking for yet
another change yeah it's it's going to be difficult until they do a Redevelopment there um I'll be honest with you the and this was the discussion that we've had over the past couple weeks the or couple meetings the idea
of a wider area to be screened you know enhancing that from the the 25 to the 50 Feet um and this language that we do want some density I think that you
know that if if those standards had been in place and and in forced I think it would have enhanced the the look and you know well currently correct me if I'm wrong currently the development we're talking about the approved site plan was
you know it's been approved da right so in order to and those are individually individual Parcels within a Cong within like a lack of a better term of P POA or HOA right
there's a vast entity but they're individual Parcels so it's going to be hard to enforce you know enhancement upon what's there yeah and they have an approved site plan for the whole stinking thing so when they come back and they want to
move something you know that's impossible you know but you can only ask for someone you know it's it's kind of a give and take and you can try you know but it's it's because they're going to say we haven't approved site plan I'm sure it's not a discussion for but the nice thing is you could say well now we
have a minimum of 35 ft corre but let's let's throw that out the door if you would make your screening more dense you know what I mean it's a nice give and take but again like you said they got an approve s plan and who knows that might be one of the Varian is that they come with like the horse trail they might come with the varians and say listen
we're going to put this dense vegetation up there can we shrink this down you know that they all do that there's there's you know it's a barter system so yeah it that's what happens so we just hope that whoever's bar is on our side and yeah that's why we're doing this and
codifying this is because this was not part of the code it was a guideline right now we're trying to make it a standard so yeah all right Jeff sorry two yeah a two maintain a dense
yeah okay um and then uh defin we were we talked about uh some definitions um and I've got a definition for a hip roof gable roof Gamal roof uh
maner roof um and an outdoor Gathering Place and I do want to spend some time on roofs because when I started pulling these definitions up and from a language perspective um it was it was not clear
to me whether there was differences in there I think there's uh you know like on the Gamel roof the definition is Gamel roof is a tri type of gable roof with two slopes on each side and the upper being less steep than the the
lower the maner roof is a hipped Gamel roof thus having two slopes on every side um maner roof is a type of roof having two slopes on every side the lower slope being being considerably steeper uh than the upper in cross
section the straight sided maner can appear like a Gamel roof but differs from the Gamel by displaying the same profile on all sides I got these from you know some architectural type things I'm going like huh difficult for me to to see the
difference and so and just do want show and tell because the the this thing was printed out does has one picture I was going to say there're supposed to be pictures there no look have do okay can I ask do we have this in PDF where we can pull it up
pull it up pull it up on the screen Sam on top of it sorry yeah I mean I can I can point them out while we're waiting so if you if you look at the if you if you guys look at no if you guys look up here right
what's that guy the painter you know I thought it was a pest so yeah so if you look at the front page of this while Sam's pulling it up left right all right yeah left to right Top Line okay so number three is a traditional hip roof
right okay number four is a gamble roof okay so let's let's break this down real quick while Sam's pulling it up so the the gamble roof is a type of Gable G roof gable roof is now refer back to gable gable is a a
triangular no I'm just referring back to number two Gable's kind of easy it's just a straight hit two slopes on each side right we we didn't get to the picture so that's why I didn't go to it so yeah g see if I got this right if you looked at five that's a gable roof with
a dormer in it or a dormer Gable number five no no two three four five six I'm Sor I can't count yeah correct that is a but the straight gable roof is the is on the bottom line fourth one over yes six is a
g is a Gable with a dormer they might call it something else but G I think they call it a dormer Gabel yeah Gamel but a standard gable roof is one two bottom four over okay that's a Gable okay so now we have it here okay cool so
now just to go by the definitions here so Gamel no the gamble roof is a type with gable roof right so it's it's pitched on two sides only there a type all right with two slopes of on each side
the upper being less steep than the other that's why this what you would call a barn roof yeah right and because you have the top has a lesser slope than the side so that's two slopes on each side instead of one slip here here's the oh there you go the document with with pictures can
everybody see that there we go okay I was giving class Jeff yeah I know you well I'm I'm enhancing the so and uh the professor will correct me if I'm wrong um don't that's a
popups that's a uh that one e A-frame A-frame which is a which is a gable roof but just correct but goes all the way to the ground yes all right so and it's generally got a steeper slope on it right okay move on move on
so I'm going to draw a picture in here really when you get what is it are we on Bell barel vaed barrel vaated roof um you can just write it up here keep on going down and they they've got a they have a picture of it there
Samy you got extra pen so so that would yeah does anybody else need pens or anything okay um so
the the the what they call that the barrel barrel um yeah that's like on a quanset Hut I think is what we're talking about okay go to the Bell roof and that's any kind of bell tower
it looks like because it's not necessarily doed wait a minute so which one's that which one's that number two is it two or the second to the last I would say it's going to probably be second to
the last on the bot you know to the right on the bottom I mean you could it's kind of what you see on the top you know I again I think it's I think Jeff's assumption is correct because you're seeing you're seeing three different types of roof
lines there and they're on bell towers yeah and just so just so you know um yeah when you count up the the little they say 30 roof types but the little examples there's only 24 of them um
right there so it's it's within the meat that uh was there this one I don't think is explicitly on the the front page the next one is a box gable roof okay and that's the G C and then I
think it's that it's on foursided is the issue there is that what makes it a box cable no it's it it's no those are go back to the Lang yeah if you're if you were to see a full full view picture that large house large red house there I
guarantee that the ends flat are are flat yeah which one is it on our little bra drawing it's the one I told you the Gable it's the not this one that one yeah that's a straight Gable right there box Gable the the definition that they
have on it in the in the example here is box Gable roofs are distinguishable distinguishable by their triangular extensions at each face of the house with the roof boxed at the end this Roofing resembles a regular gable roof but the Triangular extensions are closed
off instead of left open yeah I was just seeing that so basically box Gables are more pronounced triangular shape than no it's not that it's not that one that's a h this might be yeah that might be it's not a hip bong Gable there no that would be that one that's a Gable on a hip if
you want it's not one it's basically it's not a hip roof because everything doesn't have the same pitch to it yeah right the two ends are very Steep and they okay yeah's the next one
yeah butterfly roof this is I guess how you catch water [Laughter] that actually was a good there was some some uh buildings downtown along Dixie that had those that was a a big artificial feature back in the day
yeah yeah yeah all the water pitches to the middle and then it you runs out like a giant gutter type of yeah yeah Clara story roof see it's yeah it's really cool you like M and
water yeah all right that was a big thing back in the 70s and 80s too those clear stories yeah in Old Coastal communities you see them a lot there's your there's your that's a combination roof it's a
blend of various Roofing types based on uh the building's theme and environment there's no limit to how many roof types you can put not it's not a maner because it's got three different roofs you know if you read the
definition of the maner over here it's got two slopes this has three so you you know what I'm saying is that a Pizza Hut yeah I think they're all Pizza Huts yeah yeah any building see looks like
that not a the top is the well I think the Bell is because it's I was reading a little trying to read a little bit more but it's the you know kind of it's on this you know narrow frame with this you know so it's like on a tower or whatever that's where
you're going to see that oh yeah I think that's yeah like when he rolls up when he when he Scrolls down more Cinders instead of squares yeah if you had a round building you could do this one yeah like the top of a YT have you ever seen those Yurts that's a conle
ro yeah let's see what they showed as the picture conle lot silos have con so old silos will have conical [Music] roofs because he has a perpendicular one Crossing it yeah
okay the curved roof um it's kind of similar to that barrel barrel thingy well nobody really calls all these different hips Yeah by cross hip whatever they're all just hip
roofs we got a D there's your dome roof yeah I think the Bell is distinctive because of the size of the building or the size of what it's sitting on that's why it's a bell because it say shape like a [Music] bell Vault and then the Dormer roof I think
is that was the one that uh this is the Dormer roof yeah yeah it's the Gable with a dormer in it or maybe it's Dormer roof if it's on any kind of yeah it's it's a dormer roof and yeah I've seen them on hips
too and this is a dropped e Dutch yeah do we have a picture of a Dutch Gable there flat roof that's an easy one then you go to the pure
Gable the Gamel there which one was G Gable go back up to Gable for that's the this is the G there's the Gamel tell while you're going
if you geek out on stuff like this like I do um if you ever make it down to there's a science museum down in in Miami and they have a a you know I'm in the business whatever they actually have a simulation of a wind tunnel and how they test these things and and it's this
little chamber wind chamber hit the button it fires up these like six fans and you can actually put a block there and put another block of a type of like a gable roof and then another block with a hip roof on it and you can see how it reacts to the wind is a it's pretty cool
is a a dome I or a geodesic dome I thought was the the really the best well yeah I mean hip moves slightly but you can actually see like stuff start shaking but a Gable is like the worst if you're you know but yeah so because you have this flat section so it the hip
roof actually it eats it eats the it dies down the handles the positive and the negative really has no because it's kind of just it's more aerodynamic when you have those big straight walls walls is when okay I'm sorry keep scrolling
Sammy learning something the hexagonal roof that's you know then you got the hip and Valley that's typically what you see around here yeah on the newer houses there's there's the hip roof
imagine hip does quite well if you ever want to geek out on roofs give me a call well the jerking head is a I like the name you actually the funny thing is you will see you will see some sance of
these on a lot of houses and some developments you know you'll you'll see that style roof on some some residences and some different developments just because of of area and having to get the pitch and everything they'll incorporate that
style and this is the m shaped M shaped because looks like an m m is a mic a w well upside down W that's an M or just add another
unit go ahead Sam me to the maner roof now they're showing the maner is being flat on the on the corre top um but it minor it doesn't necessarily have to be flat right it's just
a the the monitor roof I don't it's like a roof on a roof a roof yeah it's a monitor roof it's got a Koopa on top yeah
a lot of times on Park stuff you'll have those for like like that one at Point Beach a pyramid hip roof I think is just uh it's the same dimensions on all sides salt box yeah that's it's like angled on it's
like a two store going down to a on story type of deal Sawtooth you know you'll see those in townhouse developments or older townhouse developments I've seen of and the shed roof the 30th one and last one is this
skillion roof and I'm not really sure what they're showing there I think it has to do with a three yeah it's yeah all right the all right the the and I'm I'm glad you indulged me on on that
um but the first question was whether in my mind whether or not we wanted to consider any other roof types having now gone seen or from our
because what our guide lines suggest is that uh you can have a a hip a Gamel or a maner roof um if we say monitor that's still a
hip I mean I'm sorry it's still a gable roof but with a no the monitor is a hip with a with a coua oh they show oh they're show Gable you can do it in a hip as well okay yeah I think we just we allow koas and Dormers
right right make it simple really need yeah well we we say Dormers and copas are encouraged within the those roof designs but are we missing are we missing anything if we just go with those three
or well I think those three cover a a long a broad range okay right that's I wanted to yeah check and make sure we have stipulations for parapets we have stip we know that you know a lot of commercial ings we're going to have
those in play but we have stipulations to make those parapets more appealing right and more to our aesthetic that we're going here yeah well within the guidelines I don't think we mentioned specifically parapets that
was look back at the rule Vista guidelines because it says something about parapets in there I will see if we missed it yeah there there is something about parapets it says no parapets but you got have parap you're not gonna get you're not going to get the screen that you need for for equipment that's on the
roof without a parit so I me you can but then you got this big metal screen up on top of the roof so do do we want to allow parapets or I'm I'm hearing Paul almost say it's almost necessary to to do Stu depending
on the application it could be me I'm just I think I'm sorry I think it's a like the bigger box dra like they have them because they have loads and loads of generators and yeah they essentially they essentially have fat
flat roofs is what they have yeah they do with parit walls all yeah right and and if the rural bistic guidelines said no parapets I would say something like no blank PA well no but they have some they have some other stuff involved there too
like they have overhangs and things like that right yeah I mean there's I mean maybe somebody just well again this was a guideline not a standard so this is standard and we say no more no more parapets you know you know they could
again they could come back with the with the variants they could come back with a design that actually has some kind of or do or do we want to acknowledge that they're they're somehow allow allowed and provide some standard as to why they
would be allowed or what the circumstances would be if we're if we're giving you know standards and guidelines like would have to have like the porch in front of it you know the parit walls here you have the porch underneath it so it's kind of like hidden it's not just a
blank flat wall yeah I wish we had a picture of of what do you want to can you can you Google Earth and put the little man in front of Publix is that or on um you guys Geo
now no just Google Earth just Google Earth no RGS all right yeah Google Earth and if you can put the little man in front of Publix we might we might be able to look at it you guys don't Geo now here no Geo
nothing I think some folks might huh some people might I oh no I meant like there's that yeah I mean countywide right yeah okay I think it's also known as spy but you can't watch you can't look
at Guan there they they blur out certain things like or show where you're talking about the public down Southern yeah on B Road there be in southern try not to look at the screen yeah don't stop there get off on that
tangent well actually here throw throw um here look at throw throw the little man in front of Aldi just for yeah just for where's the Aldi is this the um that should be that large oh wait that's
Publix oh this is a old old picture so yeah it's okay throw it throw it there in front of throw it there in front of public that's the big Square yeah there you go got close back up a little bit all right so that is a pit wall and I'm
talking into the mic again just back just back it up a little but it has the walkway underneath so it's kind of hidden from the flat W right and and in the middle they put this hip roof actually that's probably a maner r oh where' you go sorry guys
sorry has to see what we're seeing yeah so right above the public sign that whole section pops out there and that's all that's actually probably a maner style roof or it might be a there might be a parit that pops out there with that little you know
Gish or excuse me uh hip is roof that comes around and you can see they actually did a fairly decent job they added these stormers in yeah and they and if you look at that because I've never really paid attention now if you zoom in can you you can't zoom can you
there you go so see the the stucco that's made it look like siding make it look like lap siding that's kind of what we're talking about they used the the standing seam roof um you know I might not have used the kind of colonial L thing that's just design whatever but
see they put a rail around that up there to make it look almost like it's a a rooftop balcony thing even looks like there's a roofing like this small section of the very top of the parit right which looks good I think that's just Ro yeah I don't know I don't think
we can get up there but yeah that might be just that might be a a piece of uh like crown molding isut or gutter probably not gutter because it's just it's Square yeah but then if you if you're to go over that it's going to drop down to the flat
section right and they're going to have air handlers and stuff like that up there yeah yeah and if we back up now you can see they're they're not they're not going 50 feet they actually kept it really really tight one of those
doorways is let's call it uh probably what 8 24 they're right about 30 odd feet apart to the left of the dmer is flat yeah when you yeah when you get over past the entry it does go a long section because
they were able to do it I mean yeah but that is yeah there probably should have been one more dorm you just to bance have such a long flat section but at least they do now if you go if we jump can we jump down to go
go to the West there go left left Sammy sure look at the next building go over to I don't know if we can get up above it and get a good view because usually it doesn't you're probably gonna have to back out well there you go so yeah we got they
those little outcroppings they continue that whole thing got a little klaes type of thing or so they're they're making the this the effort effort to make it look like it's you know like we were talking about the different stores you know it's really cool I was in you know South Georgia a couple weeks ago from
for my daughter's flag football and we were downtown and it was really cool because you could definitely tell they had built different buildings at different times but they were all bled together you know so like get all these different roof lines and that was kind of I know we're not going to get that
but it's this is making a good effort they got the connected walkway which is good covered walkway correct yeah right I mean it would have been nice to have across but I think they we're dealing with a height issue you know but yeah so there yeah
there's definitely some because if you can zoom in a little bit just a hair okay um turn right a little bit you can see a little better go right keep going you can see what I was talking about so keep going keep going so we see
there you go stop see how that bumps out that's like a lack of better term like like a crown molding up there that makes that gives that Dimension right yeah and then the corales all over the post you know so this is kind of this is a good
representation with some some fine tuning if if you ask me but yeah behind that where you see Great Clips that's got to be at least a 4ft wall up there so do we want to say something like um flat roofs um that
are shielded by a parit wall the parit must be in the style of a um Gamel hip or you know I'm looking I'm looking for I know I know where you're trying to go
yeah I mean if we're looking for examples right having examples before I think we take pictures of these and we take it just can't be a plain concrete flat nothing they have to dress it up somehow right like parit walls are are okay for screening
equipment but we got to get that whole the same ver to break up but the reality is we're saying a flat roof is acceptable if you have design elements of of something
because most of your most of your um commercial buildings are going to be flat yeah it sounds like you're saying a flat roof is acceptable with a parit as long as that parit wall is enhanced with Dormer
koopa's extension of the take that we have that verbage here somewhere goes a wall there I I well see the thing is they could theoretically they could you know if if we don't do this right they could just go straight up and have a roof come off
at the porch height the walkway height and that's it so then you got this straight wall so you you do want to have some like maner or yeah I mean imagine just use your imagination and imagine what this would look like with a flat wall and just a
six foot yeah roof coming off of it just that just that part underneath Great Clips right there with none of the Dormers the cou the railings that this part right here with the hip just imagine what that would look like it certainly wouldn't well you see it a lot in a lot of places what you'll see is that roof line comes all the way out
that flat roof line comes out yeah and it has it has a you know walkway underneath for you know they're they're doing it for the EAS their customers too they they want people not you know to go from store to store they want connectivity so they'll just bring it straight out that'll be a flat wall they
might do some styrofoam ephus you know decorative Scrolls or what you know on the wall and then you'll have the signs and that's what you're going to have right you know and it's just a flat wall so I mean this is I think we we used the verbiage I don't remember if it was in
this or if it was in the original R Vista but it talks about when it talks about the D and stuff talks about roof line it talks about breaking the roof line up yeah it's in I think we just incorporate that in when we talk about the util utilizing a parit wall for
screen for equip for an equipment screen building features and ornamentation and I would imagine not that we would St jump around all over the county but if you would go look at Paul like for example the old strip mall down OVI past the Turn Pipe on the left
on the right the old ones that's exactly you're talking about like if this is the walkway you've got an opening and then a flat a pair yeah some of those don't even yeah some of those just have a flat roof and then they put metal basically metal privacy fence around the equipment
because they have to screen the equipment and that's it it doesn't yeah it doesn't it's not appealing at all no provid covered porch of the at the building entrance and sides porches and sides porches are not required in this uh service area porches
must have St roof line while roof line shall be interrupted every 50 feet with Gable hip or Dorma roof forms or a vertical shift of at least 5et so this is the ordinance 201507 architectural design guidelines for commercial
projects and on here it says facad avoidance of blank walls without architectural features facades shall incorporate architectural Elements which are in accordance with human scale blank walls shall not exceed 10 ft higher than
20t when it goes on and on I don't know you can pull can I yeah yeah so it sounds like that's the exact definition of why that looks like that and not like the old ones down noi exactly it talks about breaking it off cornices moldings plasters and windows the multi pitch
fruits functional and ornamental B um Bou strip porches and arcades that are that's an arcade right the arcades that are compatible human scale natural accent materials such as brick Natural Stone which are consistent with overall design and style that's a BCT yeah this
is stuck banding used to create AR articulation applied stuck on features such as Medallion and tile mosaics I think we want to lose tile and mosaics though I know but I think this is gonna once we
get moving on this I think that's going to this is where the language I think this no no I said I like the language but I think we want to lose tile and mosaics this is the ordinance that's already in there I know but this is going to supersede that okay I'm that's
I'm thinking right yeah that's what we're getting rid this if we're would conflict yeah this would control yeah so we get we can use that verb a lot of that is not conflicting yeah yeah I think we just get rid of the anything
that says anything like Styrofoam mosaics so maybe look at the ordinance and go from that yeah I think use use the yeah he can they can pull that up this is the facades that you know put
that ter terms in with the use the parit as a screen I think we still want to dictate you're only using a parit as a screen right right yes the whole building that's all yeah yeah we're not you have a parit wall just have a parit wall
you're going to have a parit wall and then all your equipment's going to be on the ground next to the building well that's funny because I was just about to ask Sam you go down the Tractor Supply which is exactly what you just described well yeah but they're no they're they're they're HVAC and all that not on on the
ground no no no all that equip yeah that yeah yeah I was cuz if you look at if you click on the the end building there Sammy the the yeah that one I think that isn't isn't Tractor Supply just a straight up and down parit with a flat roof I I know there like there's no
porch no yeah yeah right there no they do have a little so there's yeah so there's an example of actually what we were just talking about that's a that's a obviously 20 foot probably what 15 20 foot tall Roof oh
parit wall and all they did did is make that that very the Gable at the entrance Gable looking yeah that little porch Ro that does that porches nothing right but it's a facade okay this is where this is yeah this is where we're
talking about making this without holes that that's a facade because it's not a it's not a a porch right right they did not the building is shallower than the rest of the building or it sits back M right so it's broken up yeah so they they broke it up they put a facade
and they broke the wall going up yeah actually meets they meet guidelines ex you know because they broke it up the only issue is is I know somewhere we did read somewhere it says no parit wall yeah said on all sides porch on all sides does that say porch on all sides I'm saying the existing I'm just looking
at it this is why it's important and then of course they were allowed to have open storage anything like you know yeah I was as you were talking I was thinking this is a good example of a
a much less thoughta design than what publ did you know what I mean they need but this is an example of how the guidelines aren't stringent and what really what really gets me is if you go out to the one at Westlake that they're building right now
MH in Westlake they're building another tractor supply in Westlake looks way different I mean I knew it was Tractor Supply cuz there's a lot of red right in the front of the building but I'm like another tror play then I saw the sign but yeah there's a lot of different stuff going on there
but yeah so it's a you know they just they threw that shed up they threw a two sheds up there this isn't even showing the other sheds there there two sheds yeah the outdoor storage is like that that comes nowhere near meeting any kind of even even even if you look at like the the Walmarts they
generally you know for they'll have some sort of roof screening structure that's not even like a outdoor patio area yeah this is just that's just know they just fenced in that area fencing yeah called it a day now that's not to say that one
day they decide to get out and the developer somebody come in can build build another box there you know but these are just some this is good example of different elements because I mean you look just to the right where vanel used to be and look how far that porch comes out right
and look how I mean features on that wall they make it look so much nicer the ordinance says that porches are a minimum of8 ft in deep so they C porch out big time and had like a rail in front of it or
something yeah yeah something but you know they got they got the Deep sidewalk you know and they just utilize that space for listen I can tell you I can tell youx up the road battled with the neighboring municipality that they
belong to for many years with the lawnmowers and stuff out front because it was against their code M it was against their zoning code like that that's they you notice they now have rental equipment and stuff down the side of the building that is something of the last 10 years because they the the
zoning code for that municipality would not allow to happen this again why I'm saying it's just so important we knock you know fill all the holes right yeah awesome all right I'm sorry we Dera we derailed a little bit no no I think
shall be articulated parit or man or required height to screen all root mounted fitment right large flat ribs although not prohibited are discouraged oh there that's what you're asking about you see all the
obviously must of equipment you can't see anything you're not going to see that from even from even from eastbound Southern you're not going to see that because of that that maner gr or that parit wall so all
right okay um and then I I like that verbage yeah if we want to steal because there was some parit wall verbage there that really hit it what was that what was that page it's the ordinance it's 20 it's uh ordinance
2015-07 where was it next one on the page uh it's page 20 of 26 it talks about roofs yeah and it kind of dictates what we're saying about the parapets if you want to just steal verbage make it easy for you
sir um and then when I was looking for uh for definitions of things um I came across this and offer it to go through and see if
there's anything in here that we want to make sure is is uh included um that would enhance you know our understanding of what we're talking about um and I don't I don't I don't think we
need to have I don't think we need to have all of it in there but it you know that's why I'm giving you this you know well this is is just basically these are definitions based on what's in in
the standard correct well this yeah you're not gonna throw Arbor in there because we don't say Arbor one time right no exactly and but uh well that that could be used in the communal area you know but it's not we
didn't we didn't stipulate Gaz yeah we do say gaze I mean they they did the I they have the gable roof the gamble roof uh the hip roof uh they've got parit
definition um but I mean I don't think we need to Define do we need to find clapboard do we need to find column ganized metal is pretty normal yeah they've got dormering yeah fitration
flashing I don't I these are pretty common definitions in in one sense I I'm yeah I'm asking whether it enhances the do we use we use the term do we use the term Fieldstone I thought we
did or we just say Stone I think we just said Stone feel like the Flat Rock yeah and then the rubble stone is like a river rock yeah I don't think we get this defined in that no
allowance what terracotta tiles all the way back page we have terra cotta we don't I don't think we allow any tiles right there's no tile at all correct no not even Mexican not even clay right a what the
word the central portion of classical and located between the ARR below and the cor above yeah so we have to look up an Ure is a is beams or horizontal
bands supported by columns which might go in a it's probably what a is yeah um so do we have language about uh window lights I I like we have a minimum or a maximum
like they can't just be single what or is that oh window lights yeah yeah I thought there was something about the windows not being the windows couldn't be mirrored and they couldn't be horizont
right I thought there was something they were they were supposed to have a vertical I think it's a vertical you know nine light 10 light 12 light two light I don't think we I don't think we dep the number of lights but I think there was something that said that they had to be broken up
like yeah window and building trim that something that didn't make it over uh window pattern shall be characterized by vertical proportions uh with horizontally oriented uh rectangular forms
prohibited on uh page three and it is uh ba um 2 B B1 A2 and then the next one is the use of reflective or mirrored Windows is prohibited
but I don't I don't remember anything about lighting one way or another yeah know this is talking about if you notice on a um the Walgreens oh no sorry CVS the at the top they have very
rectangular long Windows that's what this is poting at it's got to be vertical in nature not just right I got you reading it that way yeah yeah I got yeah there's anything that says anything about the number of lights
or or that there should be kind of distinctive feature in the window there's nothing there okay that's the yeah that's okay uh a minimum of did you say four lights so so if I have an8 foot by so if I have
an 8 foot by8 foot window you want to have a crosshatch in I mean I'm I'm just's Advocate this I mean you know so you know so it's because we are trying to get these buildings to look more
like houses andless like buildings right yeah but I don't think the I mean Devil's Advocate storefront say malachor Express the nail place Hair Cuttery whatever I know but
um I'm saying storefront windows right what you see when you look at that building the from from from Publix down the tractor that we from from malor Express the little takeout restaurant
down to band that's a standard setup for storefront windows well think and cul stand know I'm trying to give you an example I'm trying to no I but I'm saying how do you I hate being D's Advocate how do you
how do you incorporate no but I guess my point is is I do understand your point because the when I understand leads to it leads to at least smaller looking
Windows um and Rural Vista is the the big the big open Windows is not necessary and and looking at for example a fast food restaurant you know you typically have
like wall toall or you know uh Florida ceiling almost uh class and that you know as compared to a restaurant um a sitdown restaurant that
typically would have more window boxes in there more architectural design that is that ex yes I think you're right yeah no I I get what you're saying I'm just saying like this is say this is a door right I mean this is typically what
you're going to see right is you're going to have you have a mum rail that comes across here takes you got a bottom glazing all along and there's a top glazing above I mean some places you got a full thing but I think most of those places about cheril
height especially if it's like a restaurant where it has this there for that purpose so you know so I mean so you're saying need to put cross hatch in here or at least minimum of four minimum you know and the other thing is for
window I think you got to put a um you have to put a maximum percentage of the the area that a window can take up of the wall right right right because exactly otherwise we are going to have
all glass everything's going to just look like everything else every other right because our first one of our first statements is not they're not allowed to paint their colors they're not allowed to you know it it you can come in here and be a
7eleven but you're not look like every other 7eleven that's the first sentence in well and and if you even if you look at um if you look at old downtowns where it was definitely a
commercial center but you didn't have necessarily the wall to- wall windows I mean that you know like in New York City you did but not not in the the the downtown of
um street main yeah right that's kind of I feel like the vibe we're going made to for today but yes every an individualistic looking and less cookie cutter and so you know they they're allowed to use their imagination instead of just so I think the I think the
window standards are the the size versus the um the wall that's part of making it the human scale residential scale so we cut it down to what what we say have every 30 ft they had to be a window wasn't that
what we did yeah we talked about the distance between yeah all right um so we need to get we need to dig up and and look for something along those lines I know exactly what you're talking about I
think yeah if you're if you're going in this direction it only makes sense um to get rid of those big Publix's windows on the H but all right
um are there within the the definition um I did I did I did roof definitions there uh that you have there um and I know that uh Gable is not explicitly a roof
um type but when you looked at the the other definitions um you know they they sort of uh talked about it being U part of a gable roof so I feel you define them both um in there and then I've got
outdoor Gathering uh place and then six is is blank because I wanted to go over with you whether there were other things that we needed to Define um within here that you can think of so I mean I would think you'd hit
shake you would hit just so you have a list of definitions if you wanted to stucco um jingle Shake shed roof penetration just because you like the
word that is the arrangement and design of windows in a building yeah but we but we don't use yeah but we're g to be using it we're gonna have a whole category on finestra I just figured You' go call him
W right no oh yeah yeah yeah I mean know something like all finra will yeah all fustration should incorporate multiple lights with a s height no less
than 30 inches or multiple likes no less than well what's the somebody whip out a measuring tape I think yeah 48 inches 30 inches what are we talking about I think I I I I got an idea of what you're looking for
and I think it's you know it's going to be defined in terms of percentage and and size well percentage I mean you say percentage you take 10% of an 8 foot wall that's what um that's a foot and a half or so
exactly so if you say 30 to 48 inches or you say 48 inches no less than 48 inches okay you know your s height will be no less than 48 inches from the from the finished floor or from the exterior grade
okay right breach come on you know that's those are the kind of stipulations you look at right so if we're going to go stipulating in here yeah I I would not say percentage I would say if you want to see a percentage of the building b pistation
or glazing or windows then you would use a percentage when you're talking about how big you want the window you're I think you're going to want to say that it's going to be no you know s height to be no no less than this height that dict Ates how high the seill how low the
seill is going to be then you would say and the window to be no you know the fitration to be no taller than this height right and then you've got the the idea that it's going to be vertical rather than horizontal this just all adds on to that
adds on to those things I think that's where yeah and I would I would say you know probably table height was that was that 36 30 yeah something like that you know that that's probably I would say that's a good one 35 I don't think we have to
dictate they're this this High you know that's that's D near 4 foot right I don't think it need to be that high do you that's not that's that's D that's probably 36 that's a bar height that's
countertop is 36 32 right um table counters are are 30 aren't they yeah cuz the cabinet are what 35 Ines tall no I don't have my measured app my measure app on here I have
measure but yeah so I would you know yeah so standard table was 28 to 30 inches tall and standards myter counter should be I mean actually
I think whatever that is good that's probably good because look at the look at those chairs see see the back of the chair so you kill two birds one stone there so it creates that chair rail 30 that's probably another yeah another
12 that's 30 that's 36 to 40 inches somewhere in that neighbor yeah because if that's 30 6 to8 inches to the top of that chair another 6 to8 inches so you're looking about a foot to 16 inches above that so they're probably about yeah probably about
40 so you want minimum of 36 is that what we're talking about feet keep itasy yeah keep it easy there you go this is your sub box what you want what you want lady I like Windows like there you go I like Windows you like fitration hey
[Laughter] shoot station so does that go along with a do you want to put in a maximum height yeah I mean do you want to I mean if the building's big enough do you
want window well you can have you could have more windows rather than than one singular window right well you could yeah got multiple windows but I'm saying just thinking that would be multiple windows
with multiple pains are preferred as opposed to One Long pain of glass right so instead of trying to be an architect yeah how do we get that
verbage right like so that we are discouraging or not allowing single you know P big glass walls and and saying you know you like you said multiple lights so um we
said no less than 30 ft but they must have you know what I mean like they that could mean well no window right well I think we or how once again because you we're saying that you have to have a vertical orientation and that basically means that the the window like that
window has to be taller than it is wide correct okay um M and so yeah so if they went if they went 20 foot wide for arguments they went 20 foot wide they'd have have to be 21 plus feet tall okay they're not going to have that yeah
unless it's Dick Sporting Goods you know that whole front of that so just saying not not to break up another can of worms wors yeah yeah but that's you know if it's something like the like Publix is done right that's perfect it's going to be this you know it's only going to be
so tall because the height of the porch right yeah so okay well if you guys are satisfied with that I I just you know where there we go good we're getting you we're getting you off the ground right and and lights Incorporated
right beautiful appreciate it look at that look at that but how do you stop them from putting a whole wall of window because of the vertical orientation vertical orientation you go too wide like you know if you have as Paul said
if you have a 20 foot 60 foot wall wide window then you'd have to they'd have to be up they'd have to have a two-story window to be vertically oriented if the window is 20 foot wide it would have to be 21 foot plus
taller and a and a and apart from the architectural stuff that's also probably economically not viable right okay so so you wouldn't want to add anything like it can't be more than 50% of the wall size or anything like that the or that
wouldn't matter the windows I I think it's the idea that multiple windows and multical vertical yeah windows and so there there should be there should be some sort of
separation wall separation between the the two so that they're not just that's a window and then I put it an inch away you know the little seal there's another window um
well there are some that will make that distinction I know put a mole bar I know the middle that's what I'm saying it's there's got to be there's got to be a minimum but that's why this this is a standard and then we gota you know codes
break it down but I mean it's it's yeah maybe the next visit is to actually make an ordinance for Windows I don't know yeah but yeah we want to get that de woods but all right okay not today all right but that that plants the seed
and it starts growing he got to water it all right so Jeff you got 15 minutes to run the office make those Corrections and come on back good think your off no no I thought that a good idea didn't you guys who types
fast okay so does everybody like where we're at right now yes all right well who even knew this existed except for you you're you're the only
one hold on 2015-07 yeah um all right I mean it's it's right here
about the window separation no not that but I'm I don't read as fast as other um individual window units with the let's see the following design characteristics for windows and doors are encouraged
colon like the punctuation um over colon painting and I had to I had to Jeff sorry a individual window units with divided lights B large areas of glass
transmission of light or display of products or display of product shall be created by grouping of individual glazed units large areas of glass transmission of light okay I guess they're using it for
lighting uh LED or panel shutters for individual glaze units are encouraged that's decorative windows and and door elements shall be expressed as individual units as opposed to continuous glass
strips or storefronts Windows shall be designed with details such as lentils Sills frames shutters planter boxes and shutters and then it gives some examples so I think we add in kind of steal from this and add in it's the yeah
but we remember we were talking about not duplicating so the ordinance is in place it's a multiplicity of the windows it's it's more of an emphasis on um that vertical that we need to get in there
and there's got to be some separation uh because I think yeah like I was saying I think the next step is to take after this is codified then you know along with the sign code and what this this has to come up in her housekeeping and be
apart CL up yeah in the future but we need direction from Council for that all right because we can only work at the direction of council I was informed okay I was so informed so we're we're we're at
7:45 um and I don't I don't see the sign code here no we don't have the we don't have the draft back okay it is due back I think March 14th orth I can't 14th what it is okay so I guess you're going to tell me
that we each can't individually receive a copy of this after it's revised and and give a and you reach a consensus by us saying yay or nay on it on an email that we
agree um to get this pushed forward because I I think all we're talking about is edits here right we didn't do any major changes we added some verbiage in we probably got about five or six big right what I I can get
you I can get you the revisions and I can ask you individually for comments right okay um and based
on based on that if you if you feel um right now if you give me direction that uh if the comments are favorable and there's not an issue
that anybody thinks needs to be brought back you're not commenting to each other you're commenting to me um the the direction would be to move it forward to the council for
discussion and inform the and and inform the committee members as to when that is scheduled on their agenda that's is that that's kind of where I was going yeah yeah that makes sense so
I guess the question is then do I have a motion to to direct staff to complete the edits and return it to us individually for comment and that
comment can be exactly yay you know if something changes let me know or it could be no I don't like this throw it out it could be you know type of thing we just won't be able to sit here as a as a as a
committee and be able to you know have this um and the back and forth about it and the comments can be they don't necessarily have to to be in writing you can give me a call right
say you know you screwed up on the paint thing again Jeff forgot Jeff we're not overpainting we're gonna paint just enough We're Not Gonna over paint it we're gonna we're gonna paint over these guidelines two coat not for so so do I have a motion to proceed
that way or I mean is that uh I'll make a motion to Jeff please um can you get us each out individually via email the amended
draft for each of us to look over and then comment on and give back to you second all in favor I I I not opposed hearing not opposed MO motion carries
5 thank you and in the absence of the sign code do I have a motion to [Music] adjourn all in favor I zero posed we are
adjourned 11 minutes early ladies and gentlemen wait a minute that clock says 7:49 for