depends on what you're giving them. Depends on what same problem with human. Thank you. It depends on if the horse is Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If they're on antibiotics, if they've been dewormed, if they There's a million
things I can get at DMSO. I landed on it and left something, right? All the above. All of the above. Well, it's any animal. Well, I mean it's very well you have the same reason why
they bury because leak out of the come out on the ground. Remember when solid waste people spoke to LGLA and they talked about taking as medical
and didn't know the answer like my new favorite color right now. Well, remember same color, you know, certain vibr see if anything comes through. Yeah.
Yeah, it's all coming. probably a monthly. Okay. Good evening everybody. The June 3rd Council meeting Council will now come to order. Sorry. Thank you for pushing that down
for me. We can all stand for the pledge. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Um, instead of a moment of silence tonight, I just would like to I've been reading this incredibly motivational book called The Choice. Everybody should read it, by the way. It's written by a Holocaust survivor who became a psychologist and it's this fabulous it's
this fabulous book about making choices to move forward in a positive direction. And I I highly recommend it to everybody. Um so I'd just like to make a statement tonight. I was inspired. Tonight I want to take us back to where we stood on March 18th when I delivered
the state of the town address. I said then and I say again tonight, it's time for action. We have the comprehensive plan. We have the rural designation. We have the staff. We have partnerships. And we're starting our budgeting process. We're doing a SWAT analysis.
She's in the back. Our time has come to start moving forward with a strategic plan. But let's be clear, we can't move forward if we keep getting pulled backwards. Since March, we've seen anonymous letters, misinformation, and personal attacks that have nothing to do
with solutions. They divide us. They distract us. and they undermine the very foundation of this town's governance. The timing seems deliberate, but this is bigger than one person. This is about whether we allow political interference, pressure
campaigns, and fear to define Lockahuchi Groves or whether we stand for professionalism, ethics, and lawful governance. To our staff, thank you. We appreciate you, and we are nowhere without you. You're the backbone of this town and you deserve our respect, our
support, and our gratitude. To our residents, we want to hear from you. We want to partner with you on solutions. This is your town and your voice matters. And to this council, I'm restating my call to action. Let's get back to business of moving forward.
Let's end the attacks, reject the distractions, and focus on what really matters, which is serving the residents of Losache Groves with integrity, transparency, and respect. We've waited long enough. Let's move forward together. That's it. That's it.
Valerie, if I can have a roll call. Council member Coleman here. Council member El Ramy here. Council member Manilia present. Vice Mayor Herszog here. Mayor Kaine present. Town manager Ramaya here. Town attorney Torivia is
appearing via Zoom. Public works director Galant present. Okay. Just a couple of um housekeeping issues we have. Um our uh state lobbyist is in Tallahassee and
they're on a one-hour call which means that at any time they can be called up and have to be there within an hour. So at this moment they have said they can be available right at 6:30. So we might have to change a little bit of the order of things to accommodate them moving
forward. Just so everybody knows, um this is the time from 6:00 to 6:30 when we have um citizens from the town who would like to come up and comment on non-aggenda items. So if we have any of those comments, Val, Miss
Siliano, Joe Siciliano, is it on? Joseilliano, 1530 B Road. Good evening, council. So, I'm happy right now to be a cheerleader once again for this town. I want to give a shout out to our mayor
who I know she wouldn't say this herself who was awarded a home rule hero award you're welcome. But I just if I could take just a few more minutes, um I just want to read what was written about her and that was that Mayor Kaine worked
tirelessly throughout the session to promote local voices, making local choices by sharing insights, local data, and real world examples that helped inform state lawmakers and elevate the voice of Florida's cities. Also, I just wanted to say that I'm going to quote uh
Mary Kay in um as she received this award and because her words are are really important and I and I think it speaks to her efforts, her compassion for this town. Um Anita said the two 2025 home
rule award from Florida League of Cities. As the mayor of the Locka, I remain committed to preserving the rural character and cultural make our town. So at I will continue to advocate for resources appropriations we
need without compromising our local decision-making authority. Home rule empowers us to protect our way of life while planning for a responsible and resilient future. Thank you, Mayor Kaine. Thank you, the rest of council.
Mr. Sud good evening everyone Manish 3765 EOD uh in God we trust all others bring data said Mr. Damning, one of the most successful industrialist and father of quality
management. We can't move forward if we don't have trust in the data. Today you are going to go through thousands of pages of data. But beyond the spreadsheet and pie charts, there is a simple message. Our community is losing trust in its local government. Let me
illustrate with a simple example. This is a crude example but hopefully we'll make the point. This is our general fund. You can face this way. This is our ready dayare funds. These are real funds by the way. This is our
roads and drainage funds. Right. They see if you can close please open their lids. In 2024, in 2024, our town management said they are going to collect 3.75 million in revenues.
So, oh, 3.75 million in revenues. So, I'm going to illustrate that with $100. This is $100. This tax was going to be collected in the general fund, which is a lot of these people here are general fund. And they said that out of this
$100, $23, which I'm going to move here, $23 is going to be invested in the roads. Here you go. $23 and $77 here. What actually happened was
What actually happened was the town collected 10% more revenue because property values went very very high. property values went extremely high. So they spent all the $77. So this is gone.
Take it out. Extra $10 taxes which was about $400,000. They kept it in the general fund. They could have moved that money to the rainy day fund. Our rainy day fund has $25 which is four months working capital. Florida law requires
three months working capital. We have four months. Very good. But instead of moving the $10 into the roads fund or to the emergency fund, they spent it or left it in there. $7 were spent on higher legal cost and hiring lot of
services. $3 were kept here. The roads fund of this $23 only $8 were actually invested in the roads. $8. Rest of the money is sitting here. This year we increase taxes again and very soon in
the 3 months we will be coming up with more tax increases. So where am I going with this? The message is clear. We need very clear and precise trust. Trust in hiring the right CFO. Trust in hiring
the right auditor. We don't want more of the same. We don't want the same auditor who says this is the best run city on God's earth or the CFO who says this is the best run town. We want some people who bring independence, the best talent
and bring quality to the town. And you can establish trust and move forward by putting a reset button now. Hire a good CFO, hire the right auditing firm and don't let be one year of the same again. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
Are there any more public comments? Yes, please. You have one. Very hard for me to have time. Right. Jane Harding. 34. Can we talk to the mic? Jane Street. Jane hurting 3479D road. Okay. I don't understand why
it has to be so hard to live here and protect why we live here. We have said no to the RV park a thousand times. It's like talking to a brick wall while creating a brick wall with every other thing being put in place to tear down why we live here. It is so frustrating
and tiresome. Why aren't we listening to the residents, the ones who pay the taxes, the one who pay the salaries of the town staff, the ones who live here for a reason and voted for you to protect those reasons? Why is it so hard and time consuming when it could be so
simple? We don't have revenue problem, we have a spending problem. so busy making 8 million new rules while not enforcing any of the ones worthy of the town staff's time and actually helping out the law-abiding citizens instead of
incapacitating them. Why can't we start one thing, see it through, finish it? Where are my RV permits? Okay, that's one. Because we are too busy making 8 million other rules. Why are we chastising the wrong people and making
it so difficult to live here peacefully and not be have to be afraid of the deluge of what's next? It is because it's easier to go after and make money off of law-abiding citizens than it is non-law- abiding citizens. Every time I
turn around, there is something new and it feels like an attack. There's just no peace here anymore. I guess the question of the day for many of us is why are you not listening to the residents and protecting them? It's starting to feel like the agenda here is let's make
Lockxahhatche Wellington or better yet downtown West Palm. Why is it so difficult to protect our rural town? Why as a resident do I feel I can never let my guard down? I think I speak for many residents who feel the same way. I'm
sick of this RV park that will not bring cash in from equestrians. Obviously, people don't know how that circuit works or you would understand this. Everything is getting so difficult that the regular normal Joe can't afford it or make it here anymore. You're punish you're
pushing them out. That's not why you were elected or why you were hired. It's very sad. Also, who can help? Who can keep up with the thousandpage plus agendas? It's mindboggling. Is that made by design? I mean, who can understand
every single thing in there? Every time I turn around, it's either changing, being added to, or it's another 100 pages. I'm a year round permanent resident. Stop treating me like I'm seasonal just because I'm an equestrian. I would like to be able to remain here
and I'd like to be able to get some peace back, but it's not looking that way. Thank you very much for your time. Make sure you fill out a form. I think that's what Valerie's going to tell you. It's okay. No, you're okay. We just got to keep records. Is there anybody else? I don't
want to jump in front of the public. Okay. So, one, I got to apologize if you think you're a long-term resident. You're being felt like you're a seasonal resident. And evenly, seasonal residence shouldn't be felt like they're some different than a long-term resident or a
newly, you know, entered resident. I think anybody who's a resident of the town should be treated like a resident of the town. I mean, that's just fair and equal across the board, right? Um, as far as the thousand page, because I I I'll be honest with you. When Jeff called me, I think it was Jeff that
called me the other day and told me that it was a thousand your thousand page uh agenda is ready. I'm like, "Excuse me, what? How many?" It was 700 and something last time. So, just so everybody understands, cuz I'm all about educating everybody and not just sitting up here and pontificating and saying
things and whatever. Just so everybody understands, the reason that the agenda is a thousand pages, okay? every bit of backup for each agenda item that was provided by whoever or whatever for each agenda item whether it be a contract a piggyback contract
whatever the case may be is in the agenda that's why this agenda gets thicker every time right it's thick I I I've made all my notes digitally thank goodness for the iPad thank you all but you know because I made all my notes digitally
because piecing through this thing I don't know if you saw me a couple meetings He's going flipping pages back and forth trying to find my notes. So that that's why it's 1,000 pages. Okay, it's 1,000 pages because we piggy we're there's a item coming up that's piggybacking, you know, a purchase of
signs that's piggybacking on a sheriff's contract. So that sheriff's contract has to be in the agenda because we all call for transparency. Correct. So in order I mean I would think they would gladly supply a link so you could
look up that document via the link but there are folks out there that are tactile. They don't want to look it up on a link. They want a thousandpage document or agenda. So I don't mean to beat a dead horse but that's that's why it's a thousand pages. I don't I mean listen I say what I mean I mean what I
say. Okay? I think I' I've talked to a lot of you who are sitting out there um at length about different things, but I can tell you right now, you know, I don't think that there's anything trying to be hidden in this agenda because it's all here. I mean, every bit of the the
the the contracts that are there that are looking to be signed tonight, any adjustments, they're here. Okay? So, every bit of of of backup that's there is there. So, that's why it's a thousand pages. And Jane, again, I apologize if
that's the way you feel. Um, some of us have only been here for a couple months. Um, there's a lot of stuff, um, you know, that I think Lisa, if she would have had to campaign and couldn't, you didn't have an, you know, had an opponent, she would probably have said a lot of the same things I did. I know in
conversations that I've had in the past before I was elected with with Phyllis, with Anita, with Marge, you know, everybody was unhappy with things that were going were going on for years. For years, we were hap we were unhappy with
the way it appeared that certain council people from decades ago up until recently seemed to have their hand in the pot and in directing things. That's a complaint that I heard from everybody. It wasn't just something that I conjured up in my own head. So, you know, I I
say, you know, I know it's hard. It's hard for me. It's hard for me to come up here and see the 700page agenda and go, why isn't Rule Vista? But guess what? It's we're going to talk about it tonight. Um, you know, because a lot of us have worked very maybe, you know, things are and things
are in flux, right? So, but you know, it's hard for me to sit here and sit on my hands. It's It's hard for me to not come out there and give you a hug, Jane, and say, "I'm sorry, you know. Um, but I say be patient because this is a for all intents of purposes, this is a brand new
council, right? You have two Well, you have a veteran. She was she was here once before, but you got a brand new person sitting up here. We got a lot of stuff to get through. So, things are in flux. um you know things take change at the state level which which you're gonna
find out you know kind of contradict some things we were going or govern over things we were going to go through. So things have to change. So yes we post the agenda this is what we're going to talk about but if things you know change between the week that it's written or
when they first started doing the things are going to change. We are going to see some change. it's going to, you know, and we have to, you know, maneuver with that. And I just ask that you be patient with us. Um, and and and let's see what the future brings. I I'm very confident
that we that you have some, you know, five individually minded people up here um that have the same goal in mind, and that's to be a better locks at Hatche Groves, not a Wellington 2. Because anybody who knows me, as long as I've lived here, as long as I've stood at
that deis or I stood over in the in the in the district office when they were having meetings, you know, I f I' I've argued against it as long as I can argue against it, and I'm going to continue to. So, I I'm telling you, I'm going to stand up and say, "No, we're not going to be another Wellington." But we do
have a unique little town and it has a lot of challenges and it has a lot of challenges to maintain what we have, right? And I think that everybody that sits up here has that goal in mind. And if I'm speaking out of line for somebody and you want to correct me, please do
so. But, you know, I think, you know, I think we've we've made some adjustments over the past couple years, uh, staff, etc. And I I I think we're in a good place. And I think moving forward, you're going to start to see a lot of that come around. We had some challenges last year, like, you know, minutia was
saying with the budget. You know, we had all this money for the roads, but we didn't do anything. There's, you know, I agree. Why didn't we get this done? Whatever. Well, you know, we got a guy in charge now, two guys in charge now that are getting stuff done. Okay. Go down, go down Dro. They're cleaning
canal banks. Go down, you know, 161st Terrace North, getting ready to take off. Go down High Park. Have you been down high? Who's been down High Park in the past year? Okay, then you know what I'm talking about. I like the pond with all the Australians around it. But that's just my own personal thing. You know, I
thought it was beautiful. But these are the kind of things that are happening. And albeit, you know, listen, I don't want to raise taxes either. I don't want to higher taxes. I don't, you know, property values skyrocketed right after COVID. You know, we were almost a
sanctuary state for those COVID lockdown folks. And everybody loves South Florida, right? So we I I just beg you. I beg you. I I I read I read your posts on occasion. I try because I get really fired up and I'm just trying to be the
best council person I can and be as unbiased as I can and not get on and spout stuff that I shouldn't be spouting and things like that. But we hear you. We see you. Okay. My contacts are in in a on a card. I'll give them to you personally if you want to send me, you
know, somebody sent me a text this afternoon telling me how they feel. I already knew how the person felt, but it's cool. You know, communicate. And I I just say be patient with us. We're we're going to get there, you know. I mean, I think I it's evident we're trying to do the best we can. You know,
we we invited the tax collector here tonight to speak to us and to talk, you know, and have a discussion. So, I patience, please. I I know it's been a long Oh, Robert, my bad. I'm sorry. I I I I I I heard tax talker the other day and I see a county logo. I'm just going,
you know, property appraiser. Sorry. So, um just in closing, I ask for your patience. I know it's hard. I've been right down there just a few months ago for years stomping and and hollering and
you know, just patience, please. I think you're going to see a lot a big change, but it is going to take some time. It's it's a project. It's a process and I think we're all willing to put in the work and to make this process happen. Thank you, Lisa.
So, you you both have said something that that I have been wanting um some clarification on. So, I'm going to start with you, Paul, since you brought it up. Um moving forward, what what do you see as moving forward? Like, what is that what does that phrase mean to you?
I think this lies in some of the confusion. You know, when I talked to anybody and I talked about moving forward, I talked about a cohesion between this council, this this deis up here and the rest of staff. And when you know, I I really I
think that's the biggest hurdle we have amongst all the hurdles of controlling our water, water quality, roads. I mean, we still got problems with roads and they were supposed to be fixed. You know, I the biggest part is going to be
the the the meshing of the staff and us. And I mean the staff is through the manager. So it's it's through the attorney. You know, there's an org chart out there. Take a look at it. It follows the charter. You know, we're directly, you know, giving direction to the
manager, to the attorney separately. you know, it it it's I don't for for a long time, you know, I haven't, you know, I sat out there and I didn't
see a team, right? I didn't see a team between here and whoever was sitting in this chair or whoever was sitting down here representing staff. It seemed very disconnected and and and disjointed. And to be honest with you, I I am starting
to see that more and more as I as I've had conversations with with, you know, employees and stuff like that. Not everybody, but you know, I've had conversations with them and and and seeing how things are running and getting the behind the scenes view of how an operation works, you know, and
that's what we need. We need a team. We don't need a public works director that that only listens to one council person. We don't need I'm not talking about you. We don't need just I'm not I'm not talking about Richard. We don't and that's changed, right? And that's
changed. And we try we stood out there beating our fists against the wall, against the window, stomping our feet for for years trying to get that changed. And when did that change? That changed when Francine became the town manager. So I you know, a lot of a lot
of faces have changed around for the good, some are the bad. It happens when you're running a business. you sometimes you hire somebody and it doesn't work out. Sometimes you hire somebody who you think is okay and they turn out to be a rockstar. But again, I think with the proper direction, which I think we're
going to see over the next few months, right, the next even year, I I think that this town is going to thrive. And I think that it, you know, and it all starts here. So, you know, that is that too wordy? I know I get it's a lot of words. Yeah. Yeah. Good. most ever heard
you say I am gotta come out of my shell now you've unleashed the beast I you know um but you know I mean you know no you've known me everybody's known me for a long time Lisa and I had a lot lot of conversations prior to getting elected
you know and and she's she like can you give that to me in 10 words or less you know so yeah I again I don't mean I know we got Mr. book is getting ready to get on and I'm sure somebody else might have something to say. But again, I just I again I I ask for patience. You know, I
think right now that's what we need because we are we are so much in flux. There are so many there's things that are coming down the pike that are going to are going to kind of stifle some things that we want to do and we got to try and get some things and I I think you know I don't know that's what I'm
saying. Sorry. So their person their comment in the last five minutes we have do we have Mr. too. Is he in folks in five minutes? We had just had somebody come in that wanted me to take all your time, Lisa. Sorry. Is that okay? I think you should drink less coffee before the meeting
started is the thing. Okay. Does that gentleman want to speak? Mr. Tran. Oh, he went into the restroom. Anita, do you want to weigh in on that? Moving forward. Well, to me, moving forward at this moment in time, you know, you got
to move forward while you're still keeping an eye on your borders, um, is basically how I look at it. So, keeping everything keeping all the housekeeping, keeping everything going on as it should within town. Um, I've been spending a lot of time with the lobbyist and with legislators, um, looking at things that,
um, could impact our town that are happening in Tallahassee, and a couple of them are actually have become really relevant tonight. But most importantly for me moving on is um getting a strategic plan that suits the town as it stands right now, not as it stood. I
know a lot of people there's I see some of the comments on Facebook. You know, we've already said how we feel and and I do want to hear from those people and I do know how those people feel, but we also have a lot of new people in town. So, I think it's really important and we have a lot of new direction that that people are going in and I think it's
important that we find a way to unify and bring all those people together. that we have the same vision and the same plan moving forward. So that's what I mean by moving forward. And now Mr. Tren, are you ready? Are you ready to speak? That is a
big claw necklace. Good uh good afternoon everyone. My name is Brian Tren and I'm uh original from Vietnam and
uh today I would like to meet all of you the leader of the city and uh sorry you can hold it if you want to you can hold it if it's easier.
Yes, the I would like to meet the leader of the city and the resident in um Lakshahi area. I came here to Florida um
2015 and I move around finally I end up at the 13 uh 13859 Okobi Bordova and I live there for since 2018 till now. And
um today I would like to ask the leaders of our community and the people in our community here, how do we work together to make our life is better and
everybody happy? Um to me the way to do that is we have to work together and find out a solution. We have to have a new
vision. Um we cannot uh stand still in one place. We have to move around and find out the right direction to make our city is a better place. Everybody make money
and willing to pay the tax to help the city. I don't mind to pay high high tax for city. I don't mind. Uh but I want
the the the the balance when we pay tax when we pay Sorry. I would like to pay tax for to help the city, help the leaders for them to grow and we follow them.
The leader have to be uh smart have to have a open opportunity for the soldier to follow and when any battle we will together and and make both side happy. So in the return I would I we would like
to the lo the the leaders and the government to give us an good opportunity to make money. And to me
um making money is the core to improve our life and our city and the business to make money is we have to ask everybody here. If majority agree with the business to make
money then let's vote yes. But majority say no then we have to continue to negotiate and work together. whoever left behind, we should come together and lift them up and help them to go to the same
level with us. And I'm from Vietnam and Vietnam is a country um come from trash. The communist came over and rule the citizen poor. I came my father were killed by the communist because he worked for the US special forces. and
March 10 19775 they execute my father left my mom and four kid and I'm lucky that we in America and America give me an opportunity to go to school and got a good job and I'm uh I work for the
government uh in the District of Columbia in the police department and uh for 26 years community liaison and law enforcement and I I my lie it go up and
down and um up and down it mean about the excuse me I'm sorry but we we have somebody on Zoom who's coming in for the next meeting. Can you can you finish? Yeah. Can you finish? Okay. Let's forget about my now talk about our our point.
Our point is right now um what can we do together to give each of us an opportunity to develop our land to make money to me make money is
the the the the the only way to improve our life and everybody happy. We cannot sit in there and say oh no if we do improve the area we have to pay tax high tax. No, we cannot think about individual, we have to think about
everybody happy and I willing if you give me opportunity to make money. I'm happy. I have a lot of opportunity and investor to come here. But I make money, I willing to share with my neighbor who need help, I will help. Guarantee I I'm
keep my worth. And today my my my my my wish my hope is to um to do something better in our Okobee area. Okay? Don't think a little thing.
Think a big thing. We have to make a big thing. But our leader is very important. I'm telling you, I I'm so proud to have a leaders in the city that willing to listen and willing to to to um to talk
direct to us, communicate with us and make something change. That what that my purpose why I'm here. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Thanks, Brian. Thank you, Brian. Thank you.
Okay. Is Ra? Are you there? Okay, we have R. Okay, can you hear us? So, let's let Keith go if R's not on yet. Okay. And see if we can get R on. Let's let this shift.
Yes. Yeah. We're having presentations first and then we'll talk about the consent agenda. Um, I have changes to a lot of things on the agenda if you want to do that first. Okay. Well, I was going to try to let Keith go since he's been sitting here
for a while. Why don't we let Keith go? Are you ready, sir? Okay. And then and then we can talk about changing the agenda, doing whatever you want to do. Okay. Good
evening. You hear me? Yeah. I'm Keith Alexander. I run the agricultural department for the property appraisers office. Um, essentially what we do is we manage the agricultural classification of land. So when people apply for the agricultural classification, the idea is
if you're a commercial farmer, um there's a potential to save some money on the assessment and that was the intent of the state. It was to protect farming land and allow farmers to um avoid the pressures of residential development and whatnot. So what we do
is each year we get um around 400 some applications. This year we got 413. Some years we get 5 600. And between January 1st, March 1st everyone can apply. And then we work those throughout the first six months of the year. And then July 1st we issue all the approvals and
denials. Um essentially to to qualify for the agricultural classification and it's just it just covers land. If you have land or buildings, it the buildings don't get discounted, but the land that's used for the operation gets discounted. Um there's a few caveats
with that. I actually put together a brochure that I gave to the mayor. Yeah. Um and you'll all be welcome to grab them. It kind of explains a little it breaks it down a little bit about how that that functions in terms of the savings. Um and brochures and keys cards and I'll give them to the clerk to put
maybe out on the front reception desk. Yeah. And anyone has any Right. If there's any further questions, people are certainly welcome to call me. You can read the brochure if it doesn't make sense. Or if you have further questions and you want to look into it, my card's there, you can give me a call. Um, but basically to qualify, there has to be an
agricultural use on the property as of January 1st in the year you apply. And that use has to be commercial. So, there has to be an an attempt to make a profit from the land, from the farming product or something from that product. Um, I figured what I would do is instead of
giving a, you know, a long presentation is I would field questions because that's typically what it turns into is people have questions, people have comments. So that's basically what I would like to Does anybody on council have questions, Alexander? Okay. Yes, ma'am. And I'm sure some of the people that are here to
speak tonight will will ask some of these same things. But uh some of the complaints that that have come my way have been uh variations in the applications of a standard um that so many beehives on so many acres versus a
similar number of beehives getting less acres. And I I think that it would help if people understood what if there's a formula that applies, if there's some kind of standard that that Palm Beach County sticks to. Is is there something that you can There is we we look at we
look at the industry standard. We look at what's typical. Now, if somebody's doing something unusual, um we're not going to dictate to them. I mean, that's my position anyways. We're not there to tell them how to farm, but if somebody's doing something different, they need to kind of let us know and maybe explain it to us so we understand. But typically what we do is we look for the industry
standard with beehives. That that standard was established by there was a whole group of beekeepers that got together on a statewide basis, all the different beekeeping associations, and they determined that that a reasonable amount of bees beehives per acre was 24.
Um, typically in Palm Beach County, 99% of it is is beehive storage. We've got a couple very large beekeepers. They store their hives around the county. Um, and we give it's 24 hives an acre. So, we'll grant an acre even though the beehives don't take up an acre as long as it's
leased by the beekeeper. They're paying them to put the hives there. Um, as long as they're active hives and they're there by January 1st, at least in the first year because they all have kind of a cycle. So, we know not all farming is January 1st. You know, some people don't farm until, you know, they might not plant until May or something like that.
Well, be beekeepers, what they do is most of them will have them there the first. They'll grab them in say February or March, take them to their different pollination contracts, they'll do honey harvesting, all different things, and they bring them back at the end of the summer. So, we're we're familiar with that, but it should be standardized. I
mean, if you have if someone has a case where they're not getting granted that amount because and it's the land has to have no other use. So, it's got to be the primary use of the land. So, with bees, it's got to be just open land. You know, if you have garages or houses or other buildings, those areas get cut out, parking areas, but typically with
bees, it's just open land. So if somebody does get granted, you know, based on a different standard, then they should certainly call me and let me know. Okay. And then you've mentioned the state um industry standards and best management practices and BMAPs and if we
have people that want to enroll like in the best management practices um programs for with the state, will that be something that we should encourage our our a users to do? Yeah, and that's I mean that's up to them. there's, you know, there they there's a lot of people that do that through the Florida Department of Agriculture. Um, we're
kind of separate from that, but we'll observe it and if somebody has if they think that we're conflicting with it, we certainly want to bring it up. Okay. And then lastly, you did mention um the other infrastructure and I know some of the people have also contacted me because certain driveways or parking
areas or buildings have been um cut out of their A classification exemptions and I think in some cases it it is an integral part of their operation to utilize those areas for those purposes. And um I think if you could speak to
that maybe too also if it's yeah it's the area in use plus anything that's that's integral to the building to the to the to the overall operation. Um they should get granted the land under it if it's integral. The buildings don't get granted but the land under the building gets granted. So the building will be at
whatever the market value is. Um driveways, parking lots. Yeah. I mean if if they're if they're a requirement to run the business then we typically grant them. Um, if somebody is more conservative and doesn't grant that and someone feels, well, this should be granted, they can present it to me. If we don't come to a meeting of the minds,
then there's a petition process where they go before an attorney magistrate and make that argument. Um, and generally speaking, there, you know, they they will to often have differences of opinion than we do. I mean, we don't lose a lot of cases in the sense that we try not to bring them to hearing if we
think that there's potential that we're wrong, but sometimes we do. And um there are magistrates that disagree with us, but if you have a business that's that's like a a large nursery, most of the time if they have parking and everything and they have an office building or or shade houses and those things, we do tend to
grant those. Okay, that's all I had. Thank you, Phyllis. I think you were next. Thank you for coming, Keith. Yes, ma'am. Um so, um I think we've trained a couple of your inspectors. I remember the day when
they were looking for poop to give an egg classification and we had to explain these are show horses. So they have groom that follows them around and picks up their poop. So um you've done a good good job come a long way where we're not
getting all those complaints anymore. However, we are still getting complaints um being that we have a new inspector out again that um is I I'm hearing like you can't have
the driveway as as council member Elvie said, you can't have this pasture. You know, I Are you aware we're a rural town? We've got a state designation now. I'm aware. So, you know, people that
have already I I understand there's a lot of fraud out there. It used to be the neighbors would share a herd of goats back in the day, but I think most of that has stopped. And I think what you're finding if you're going
out, this is the problem. When do you go out and inspect? What we do? Well, it depends on when people apply. First of all, we're looking for January 1st. That's the key date. That's the date we're kind of everything's frozen in time. We're looking because that's the date everything's valued by state statute.
That's what we look at. However, obviously, we can't be out at every property January 1st. So, what we do is we use aerial photos to kind of supplement what we have. Some uses you can see really well with aerials. I try not to deny aerials, but we'll if we look at a pasture and we see 20 horses
and we get a contract says there's horses out there boarding at this property, then we we may not have to we may drive by, but it's not as critical. we can grant the property because we know there was something there. But are you expecting like in May and in June? What we do is we Yeah. I mean, we'll go
as late as April usually and there are some properties we may look at later, but we know that the equestrian season typically in May is wrapping up. Well, April. Yeah. But I mean, we know that people are gone by May. I mean, we know that the winter equestrian festival, we look at it like October to May, even
though I know it's shorter than that. So, and if we don't see anything at all, we'll see wear and tear. Um, we'll look at old aerials. I I let introduce you to my friend Joseo. No wear and tear. Okay. No wear and tear. I I I'm just
right. I'm just saying that, you know, that's kind of, you know, that's kind of pushing it looking for wear and tear in a barn that somebody spent a million dollars on. Well, I mean, it's not a barn. We look at, you know, if someone has paddics and they have eight or nine paddics and they put a horse in there, we know the horses will tend to kind of
wear well community is changing, right? It's not just backyard horses, okay? It's it's equestrians from ex they have expensive horsehow horses. And so they normally don't go out for long lengths
of time. So you're not going to see a ton of manure because they're going to go out and pick it up. you're not going to see a lot of holes because they're out there waiting to come in. So, it's a little different. And um so I'm hoping that you know especially in
Lockxahhatche Groves that you know we grow a lot of food also here that you would take that into consideration you know with the group with the group that is here. Um, also I got a list a few
years ago and it said alpaca, it said goats. It was a list of I think I've asked you for that. Is there a list you could share with the town manager that helps
um helps us here you know um deal with the a situation like when people say I I I'm hearing a cow one cow is worth two acres but two horses are worth one acre is that correct information what we do
is with pasture on cows cows survive on the pasture And I've I've talked to people about adjusting some of that with horses a little bit when people are pasturing horses because most what we see in a lot of it and and we see it in Wellington, we see it in Lock Hatch Groves as well is we see people, you know, they might have five acres but you
got a 20 stall barn. So they're not necessarily looking to only have five horses on that property. So we try to make it fit what the use is. Some places are training facilities, some are, you know, they are there are a few people that are just grazing horses and I've tried to be a little more reasonable
with that because that though some of these standards predated me and I've been working to kind of tweak them a little bit and listen to people and see what's out there. Um, but with cattle, cattle is that's how they survive that if you know the idea is to make money on cattle is they're grazing. They're eating 3 4% of their body weight a day.
They need fed too in Florida. They can't live. Absolutely. But that's why we do it that way though because that's what the industry has always shown us that they do. All right. So, do you have a list? I do. You're talking about the rate sheet and I do. I can give that to you if you don't mind sending it here to
share with us. And I've also put a bunch of stuff on the website because our website on the a portion was pretty barren when I got into the department. I've tried to add some things for guidance. And again, if people have different thoughts, if they disagree with what we do, you can your taxes. So,
But present present it to me. I mean because before they go and do a petition, present it to me and explain to me what you think we're missing. Thank you. I mean because that's the idea. Huh? Ju just for clarification. I I don't work with Keith. I work in a
whole another department. So I just want to make that clear. Um I don't know Keith. Um I've seen him a couple you know um events. So just describe for clarification, you have a 5acre
property, the house sits in the middle of it. What portion is not exempt if you have bees, whatever, whatever the case may be, whatever exemption you may have, what portion around the house, because I know years ago it was like, well, if you have an
house, an acre is counted for the house and nothing is and everything else. So you would have four at that point for exemption. Correct. It's a typical rule of thumb, but it's not an absolute. We have some people who use a lot more and have a lot smaller area. It's on use like you were saying before. Yeah. I
mean, if if it's if it's a use, you know, if it's pasturing, then normally we'll look and we'll cut an acre to the house. Or if the house has a fenced area, you know, some people have a really manicured lawn in a fenced in area and the rest is clearly just wild pasture, then we might, you know, just use that as our as our rule. Um, there
are plenty of properties that that are, you know, much larger that might have a quarter acre that's cut out because the house is really contained, right, and everything else is being used. So, it depends. An acre is is a rule of thumb, but it's not, like I said, it's not a hard and fast rule. No, I got to say,
um, for anybody who hasn't met Keith or listened to him do a presentation, um, his office is very accessible. They, you know, if you have a question about your exemption, I think you guys actually will do like a calculator.
Correct. Like you can come in before January 1, say, "This is my plan." Let's try to Yeah. You try to kind of get in. It's brutal. Well, no. Listen, if you look, the reality is is is if you have a commercial agricultural business or you decide, say, you know, you're
like me and you lived on the property since you were two and and you've owned it since you were, I don't know, 20some, I forget how long it's been. It's been forever. You know, if I started a nursery on my 2 and a/4 acres tomorrow, would it really benefit me to
go get a Nag exemption? Probably not, because they're going to recalculate things at today's rate. So, you know, you got to weigh everything in the thing. And and my point is is is the office is very accessible. They will do the best they can to get an estimate. You know, I use that term loosely, I think. But, you know, and and they will
work with you. Like you said, if you have a if you have a question or if you don't think it's a proper answer, you can contact Keith and he'll look at it with you. And if you don't like it, there is an appeals process just like anything else. So, you know, um that's all I have, but thank you for coming out
tonight. I appreciate it. It's always educational. stay on the I'm sorry, mayor. I was just going to see if we have any public uh comments. It appears that we have quite a few. So, don't go anywhere. I No, I won't. I just want to refer to the statement. Um we try to work out an estimate. You know, the the idea is
we're working with the current numbers and you'll eventually have future numbers. But what it doesn't really work well with is um properties that have been homesteaded for a long period of time, properties that have a lot of value in the house and not in the land. Um, we try to catch those situations
when it's not going to benefit somebody because what it'll actually do is if you have if you have more cap space, meaning the difference between your market value and your assessed value, then you have land value, then it's impossible for the egg to save you any money. And what it does is then we have to throw the egg
rate on top of it. So, say like a nursery a rates like four grand an acre. We'll have to throw that 4,000 on top of your current cap. So, it actually makes your taxes go up a little bit. People have different motivations for wanting it, so sometimes they want it anyway. We can't catch them all, but if I see him,
we let them know. You said it much more eloquently than me. Thank you. Certainly. Our first public comment is Darren Swang. This is uh Darren Swang from 14311 North Road. Um the statements he's making, I didn't I didn't find any of that to be truthful whatsoever. Um
there's none of it. I mean, they don't accept any data you give them. They give you one sheet from the 60s or whatever. That's the data that they have is outdated. You They tell you that pigs don't eat grass. They're not pasture animals. The USDA doesn't even
um even recognize it, which all that's false. And then you give them the data to get the change and they don't change it. They force you into the petition process. And if the good thing about the petition process is or the bad thing about it is if you don't bring all your data to support your claim, you're going
to lose. And then you're not allowed to bring any additional data after that first additional that after that first process with the magistrate, which is phone call. I mean, they go around and around with you, confuse you to death, and then you get on a phone call, you think you're just having an informal meeting, and all of a sudden you need
data. I had no data. And you can't bring any more data. So after that first process, you can't you you're not allowed to bring no more data after that. So then you're going to lose unless you go to court. Now they know the value of the adjustment, which is in my case was $18,000. They know that the court cost and the lawyer fees which you
can't get back. So the whole game is on to their side. They push you under the one yard line and then you know you're going to lose. So you're stuck and that's the problem. And then the town fought so hard to to maintain the manure and then the county goes and over
densities your property. So now you have bad management practices and that's a problem. And then you try to get it rectified and you can't. It's impossible. I tried. Six months I spent on it and I got nowhere. Nowhere. Keith, have you met
Darren before? Knows me very well. I'm very familiar. Cuz he grows food. I'm aware. I'm aware there's a lot more to that case. I'm not going to rehash individual cases because then you get into all their personal stuff, but there's quite a bit more to that's an oversimplification. There's not more to that. The basics was you gave me two and
a half acres for 100 hives. You just stated I should have got four. So, right there I lost acreage. You guys wouldn't change it. You gave me initially an acre and a half of my pigs. I showed you the data that I was using six and a half of a 90% consumption rate. Everybody you speak to in pigs from the uh University
of Florida, they're the ones that state, you know, the data for the state, they say for cattle, one cattle, it's five acres to 25 acres from summer to winter. That's 12 acres you get for one cow. That's it. 100,000 pounds. That's all it
required. They they make you put on three, four. I had two 25 years ago. I don't even know if he was here then. 25 years ago, I had two. county did absolutely goes. They're perfectly fine with it. I have all this other stuff on my property using eight and a half acres
per their data. They're, hey, you need pigs, you need cows, you need this, you need that. They they overstock you and then it burns down your land. You're over you. There's no sustainability. So now you're bringing in round bail after round bail to sustain it. So there goes
your profit margin. It's all the whole thing is a ruse. Period. That's and it's out of control. Thank you. Would the town be under any different um rules perhaps because we do have a
rural designation now? No, I mean we look at them the same for everybody and or could we and we we honestly get very little push back on those. I mean but when people do I try to listen to them and see what they want. But like I said there's there's more to a lot of these cases but I'm not going to get into the whole thing out here. It's It's You had
All right. You want to be square? Okay. For you you had what was it? Eight acres for cattle at one point. I'm asking you a question. Don't make face. I'm asking you. Did you have eight acres for cattle? Eight. Yeah. Well, how many acres did you have for cattle? But you had a lot of acres for
granted for cattle. Our our one of my appraisers called and and his wife told me they haven't had cows for 10 years. I looked, they had a pasture at one point. It's not pasture anymore. It's overgrown with trees and dirt. So, so and you didn't make them any mention about the
pigs until we took the cattle off and then you went arguing told me you had cat. It was only five years you didn't have cows. I've been out to your property. I'm just saying. And you went to a hear and you got a petition hearing to go
to, right? It's about we don't we don't look Oh, yeah. I could talk for two hours. I I'm totally with him. Ma'am, please state your name for the record. My name is Dr. Deborah Marshall. I'm a
licensed veterinarian of 30 years practice. I started in small and exotics, but I have done large. I have done farm animals and I specialize now in equin. And let me tell you something. Everybody that steps onto these properties has absolutely no idea what they're talking about agriculturally.
Let's just do the cow thing. You just said, "Well, cows, you know, they they really survive on like grazing like horses don't." Time out. I didn't say horses. That is not true. I didn't say horses don't. I said cows. That's the business. Just at a hearing with Nancy, you stated the horses were not grazing
animals. Let's talk about this. We did not do that. Okay, let's talk about the anatomical agricultural things. Cows can eat chicken poop and cardboard. And it if there's not pasture there, trust me, you can throw them chicken poop and cardboard. It is better for the horses
to have those two acres. To say a horse is not a grazing animal and only needs half an acre, that is wrong. That is veterary wrong. That is anatomically wrong. That is best practice management's wrong. It is wrong across the board. Number one, we need clearer
standards that are agricultural standards. People that know what agricultural is. That if a pig is on acreage, you have to rotate that grazing. Now, here's what I encountered that I was told that a horses are not grazing animals. Pardon me. Who who went
to vet school? I did. Who d you know who dissects these people? I do. Who takes care of them when they're not grazing and they get sand collics? I do. Okay. Don't tell me they're not grazing animals. Don't tell me they only need half an acre pores. That is not best practice management. And the pigs,
there's wear and tear like crazy. You need rotational grazing. That's the other thing I was told. What's rotational grazing? Excuse me. Here's another thing I was told. They did not know that if you have a show horse, if you have privately owned horses there,
that they must be turned out in individual paddics and cannot be turned out together. So these are the people coming to inspect that do not know the agricultural requirements that pick at us. Every single client I have, everyone
from Wellington to Jupiter is complaining about how out of control this is. Just had an in just had an inspection on one. They've always had four acres. They have five acres. They board horses. Had four acres egg. Oh no, those paddocks are for pasture. This
isn't. Well, the horses are allowed out out the well-mannered horses are allowed out of the paddics and basically graze across the whole property. So, how come only the fenced in paddics are for grazing and horses and not where the horses actually are? And it goes on and
on and on. And at this point, same thing. I January 1st, I called a I said I cannot have horses here on January 1st because of the fireworks. It's dangerous. They will be here to board by the 7th. I got screamed at, yelled at,
and finally hung up on. And I was like, I'm an a producer trying to protect a animals and somebody is screaming at me that I have to I have to bring in new horses that don't know the property and put them at risk. This is out of control
and it has to be addressed. Hi, thank you. So, I've been through the mill with um Keith. I'm sure you're a really nice guy, but you know this stand up, but this isn't working. Okay, this is just not working. We need we need to have basically a committee that is from
lockahhatche people that actually live here and actually have horses and pigs and llamas and god knows what else. I used to have a zebra. He's in California now. Anyway, um to to make our own laws. We don't need Keith to do it because Keith is not an expert. Don't take
offense. He's not an expert. And when he sends Jessica out, who is a staff member who is a doesn't even know what a horse looks like because I have I had 20 and she only counted three. How do you hide the rest? I know you can appreciate that.
All right. Anyway, so we need our own committee. We need to have our own rules. We This is a Lockxa Hatchee Groves is probably the only place on the eastern seabboard that is very agricultural per square inch the most. That's why I moved here a gazillion
years ago. So I want to keep it that way. So all this bantering and a aggravation and anger, this is stupid. Let's just make our own rules. Kick this guy out. Let him go back to West Palm Beach. Let him do West Palm Beach.
Forget it. He's not an ad guy. Okay, that's it. Thank you. One thing I'd like to suggest if I may, when we get denied or we have this, we need a lot more steps in between when we're having these things and when we
have to hire a lawyer and go before a magistrate, we need intermediate steps. Well, can I speak to that for one quick second? We don't we don't set the rules locally though that this it's a state statute.
So state it's county by county but it is a it is state regulated. It's all under state statute. The industry standards we can look at county by county. And I told you that I would certainly listen to you because I and I'm going to speak to I've
didn't I just email you not too long ago and I told you that we were leaving you alone and I wanted to talk to you about next year and you said you want to meet. I said I would meet with you and I know and I know you have expertise. I trust that you know what you're talking about and I told you I would listen to you. When I met you out of Miss Freed's property, I told you I would listen to
you and I absolutely will listen to you. I'm not looking to shut you down. I'm not looking at we have a total we have 5,200 a properties in this county. The entire in the the entire county this year we may properties that already had a we're looking to deny like 30 and
those will get and those will a lot of those will come back. So we're not out there rampaging and denying a bunch of people. We're just not. Why? They can certainly call me. I will take a hundred phone calls if I have to and I will listen to
people. That's up to you. But it I actually have a question and and and if I knew that I that would address it. That's inappropriate. Two more minutes. We've got two more people to speak and everybody's had their three minutes. Go. Joe, make your three minutes quick. I'll make it a
quick three minutes. I I just have some questions regarding fencing of livestock um uh for cattle that are apparently, you know, I mean, they love to break fences and they're out regularly. Is there some kind of I mean, I love seeing
the cows. I just don't like seeing them in the road, right? And and I'm wondering if for these people who have cattle on their properties, if there is some sort of regulation for a the number of cattle for for feeding and and and overg grazing, uh water and shade just
like any other animal should be uh allowed and if there is some sort of a regulation for the fencing so that as we can police ourselves a little bit when we do see that there's there's roaming the streets or Well, we don't really regulate it. Give me one second. I'm
terribly sorry. Our lobbyist has a one-hour call. They've got just a couple of minutes to give us. Can I just pause you guys right there in the middle of this item. I I hate to do this and let them speak because they have a couple of important things to impart to us. So, we're going to jump over to item three.
We will come back to this because Joe's speaking again. There's still another person to speak. Just hold the mic. Okay. Go ahead, Ra. It's Ron. Oh, Ron. Hi, Ron. Hi. Hey, guys. Uh, listen, we're all of us, and I speak for Mr. Pitman's firm as well. We're sorry to to
to to try to get up in some out of turn kind of way, but we've got to go back over to the capital. Um, we're we're in the middle of the budget conference process and they convene until 8:00 tonight and we're just doing what we do and what you want us to be doing. So,
just want to take a couple of minutes to bring you up to speed, make sure that whatever I'm missing, Sean's adding in, Ron is adding in, Sam's adding in, and then leave a few minutes for you all to ask questions. Um, so, as you know, uh,
there was a breakdown in the legislature. They could not reach a budget agreement by the May 2nd normal deadline. So, we went into an extended session. as opposed to adjourning snee die on May
2nd and then calling a special session. A lot's gone on in the last couple of weeks. The fact of the matter is the problem and the hangup to getting a budget deal was the tax package, which has not
happened historically at the state level uh in any reasonable period of time. You'd have to go back to the days of the passage of the inventory tax repeal, the services tax, um, and a couple of others
like that, uh, unitary tax where the legislature got caught up, but never bogged down like this. You had the governor on one side, you had the Senate lined up with the governor, and you got the House trying to drive a deal that
was to reduce overall spending, reduce the budget by reducing recurring revenue so as by by 5.2 billion. And their method for doing that was to cut
the sales tax from 6% to 5 and a4% but also providing for some level of adorum relief. The governor was driving the agenda for just pure adorum relief and the Senate was siding up with them. They could not reach an agreement.
At the end of the day, the Senate President lost his rural lifestyle uh rural renaissance bill as a result of it and the 200 million that he was trying to put into rural renaissance, some of which would have benefited
potentially folks in Lockahhatche. They finally began to have a communication. The governor and the speaker met two Thursday afternoons ago. Um, while they did not reach an agreement on anything, they at least had
a dialogue, which they had not had in many, many weeks. Over the last days, after the House went back into session, passed a concurrent resolution extending the
session from June 6 to June 30th. The Senate refused to buy into that concurrent resolution, not wanting to extend that far. Actually, the governor and the Senate president trying to box the House in to another approach and
another uh, if you will, set of deadlines. I think if the governor had his brothers, he probably would have preferred a special session as opposed to a continued session. Put that aside. over on
Thursday and Friday of last week, they reached a deal on taxes. It will reduce recurring revenue in the state budget by two and a quarter billion, which was the House's goal. They do that number one by
reducing eliminating the uh the sales tax on commercial rentals. That generates about 93 million in tax relief. They then take about
300 300 million plus uh and they make the temporary sales tax holidays that we have all gotten used to. They make most of those permanent. They then take and pay the
state's debt down by 250 million. When you do that, you reduce by several hundred million the interest payments long-term from a recurring standpoint. There are two or three or four other little things thrown in which gets you
to about two and a4 billion dollars. the the the problem so that everybody hears it is if you take two and a quarter billion that you're never going to get back into the budget again, it means that spending for
projects start to go to the back burner in this budget cycle. And the budget conference really began yesterday, but the formal meeting started this morning at 8:00. Uh, higher
education, a and natural resources, health and human services, those budget silos are going to take the largest allocation hit, which means fewer and fewer projects will be in there. I do
believe that when we're done, number one, water projects like your Locks Aachi Grove storm water system rehab phase three uh as well as your Lockxachi
Groves canal pumps wears, which really is not alive any longer. Your only project that's alive, which was sponsored by Senator Herold and Representative Weineberg, is the phase three of your storm water system. Those
projects have a significant chance of getting through because the Senate President is going to drive those hard since he didn't get his rural renaissance. I think the other thing you should be aware of is they have largely
reversed many of the things from a budget preservation standpoint that Senator Paso had put into effect uh as her priorities during her two years. So for example, the 700 million in uh
Indian gaming compact revenues instead of that money going into uh land preservation and nature pathway and and all of the Everglades stuff. That money will now go into the
general revenue pot. Uh one of the other things I should go back to that was agreed upon was a change in the budget budget stabilization fund, the BSF which will require a constitutional amendment which
will go on the ballot that takes another 750 million a year and puts that over into the BSF going forward. They in spite of the constitutional amendment not passing yet, if it even passes,
they're going to reserve that 750 million again reducing the pot of money available to fund projects. But to keep moving forward at the end of the day, also the live healthy stuff, several hundred
million more, they've largely going to reduce that, put that back into the general revenue pot as well. Um, and I think you can look at a significantly reduced budget down from 119 billion. My
bet is it will be south of 115 billion by the time they're done with this legislative session. Um, prek to 12 spending should remain constant. They may take a little bit of a hit. Uh,
higher ed will take a hit. Um, and that's sort of the lay of the land. They are not, I repeat, not going to take up any bills that are not budget or tax related, which is the specific language
passed in the extension resolution. I do expect the House and the Senate to both gave in before weeks end and pass a renewed concurrent resolution likely extending the legislative session until
instead of what the House did with June 30th. I suspect they'll probably extend until June 16th, June 17th, June 18th with a plan to actually pass the final budget on the afternoon of June 16th,
which is a Monday. I remind you that when they agree to a conference committee report on the budget, that's got to sit once it's clocked in, that must sit on the members desks for 72 hours before they can vote final
passage. Um, I think there's some chance that they will decide um to maybe meet late next week just to take questions and debate on the budget. About an hour ago, just before I
logged on here, there was conversation that they're all going to go home next week other than speaker, president, the two full budget chairs, and then not come back until Monday the 16th and do it all in one day. Um, that's where we
are. Uh the the the the four of us are about to scurry back over to the Capitol, but I did want to leave some time to make sure that if I've left stuff out that Sean and Sam and Ra have a chance to add, supplement, and then take some questions.
Well, let me let me take a stab at a couple things and and uh as always, uh we thank you all for the opportunity to to to work for you up here. Um um we know you come up and down and and we always appreciate when you're in town.
Uh you uh spending time with other electives is very very helpful. So um we'll look forward to seeing you next time. Uh just wanted to add that obviously there was a lot of talk about property taxes. Um that's not going to
happen um this year. Uh but but but we can tell you that that it is a legitimate conversation that's going on. So we we do expect that that we'll be talking about it and dealing with it next year. Um the other thing that that
um that I would add is and I think Sam sent me a note on something. Hold on. Oh, well, yeah, that's true. Ron, and you may want to speak to this is uh we do expect as the relationship fall out
here between the legislature uh and the governor's office that the governor may have a heavy veto uh pin this cycle just to if there's some folks he needs to send messages to. Uh but Ron, you I don't know if you want to want to sort
of uh add to that, but let me add let me add two things, Sean. First of all, you're right about the advalorum piece. I do expect the House and the Senate to agree before the end of session uh on a on an advalorum study commission of some
kind or an advalorum study. It may or may not be a commission may just be a study. How and what that will look like before we're done, I don't know. I think the legislature certainly the Senate understands the
need to replace revenue. If you if you reduce adalorum, you still got to pay for essential services like police and fire. How do you do that? How do you take care of parks? How do you do the things you need outside of what you get
in your portion of of of gas taxes? It's it's unrealistic to think you can do it the way they've talked about. You might yet see next session a homestead exemption uh constitutional
amendment. I think as the governor's level of persuasiveness begins to diminish further, it will be harder and harder for him to generate the votes you need to put a joint resolution on the ballot.
Uh, I think you need to understand that the point Sean has made, the level of dislike between the House and the governor is intense. Has it improved
over the last five or six days? Yes. But nobody should lose sight of the fact that as a result of the appropriate review of Hope Florida that occurred and the dropping of those documents at a
state attorney's office initiating a criminal investigation of Hope Florida that may or may not have some engagement related to the first lady is is should should not be lost on any of you. And so that deep
animosity will and and and frankly the distrust between the House Speaker and the Senate President um you know we can sugarcoat it or we can lay it out there. and laying it out there is simply to say those are just issues that in the world
of politics we've got to swim through between now and the next 18 months while this 2-year cycle continues to evolve of all Britain and Perez and the last 18 months of the governor's term. So Sean,
thank you. I apologize for missing that. Can I just ask a quick question? and thank you for talking about the financial aspects. But um before we approve our agenda tonight, I just wanted to get you guys to weigh in on SB 180 because it's signific it has the potential it's a dark cloud hanging over
our head and has the potential of affecting any legislative decisions that we make here tonight or for the next you know until that we we know what whether the cloud's going to rain or go away um in July. I can I can I can update you.
Go ahead R. Sure. 180 is the emergency management legislation that centralizes a lot of the functions to the state. Uh there are two sections of the bill that are problematic for local governments. Um essentially uh cities and counties are pro prohibited from proposing or
adopting a moratorum on construction or redevelopment after um a hurricane makes landfall for one year. The second section pertains to uh any any community, any county who was included in Hurricane Debbie, Milton, and Helen.
Um declarations of emergency. Uh you guys were included in Milton. Um and that puts a moratorum on uh restrictive and restricts your ability to give to make regulations uh until for two years. Yeah. until October of 2027 and makes it
retroactive to August 1st of 2024. So, um I know that a lot of local governments are working on uh working with the League of Cities and they're working hard to request a veto on that legislation um as well as other outside
entities. Really bad. But it passed both houses. It just hasn't been sent over to the governor yet. Pretty much sitting in limbo. Correct. Yeah. The other thing I Okay, we'll hope for a veto. The other thing I wanted to mention is
um the mayor wrote a letter uh regarding the uh affordable housing legislation dealing with the uh rural aspects of it and um we're hand delivering that. She she sent it to the governor and representative Caruso and we're hand
delivering it to the governor as well. That's SB 1730 and HB943 for anybody who wants to play along. Yes. 30 and 1730 and 943. One last thing I wanted to bring up. Um, you all we we
were successful a couple of years ago in getting you all the uh rural designation. Those designations last for two years. We're at that point now. We had uh we have sent the Department of Commerce all of your information so that they can review it to renew. Um they're
in that review phase now. I don't necessarily think they're going to come out with an answer before session. Um, so we're we're on top. They're pretty tied up with the Doge, there pretty tied up with a lot of things. Yeah, they got a lot of stuff going on at the moment, but we're pretty involved with being
available to them if they need anything and um as soon as they give us an update, we'll we'll get with you on that. We do not expect that to be a problem. We sure don't. Anybody else have any
questions for Ron or Ra or Mr. Pitman? The governor said hi the other day. That's right. He was down there with He was in your city. He was in your city signing a He was in our town. He was He was in our town. Surprise. I got to corner my Carissa. That's why I wrote
the letter. Okay. Thank you guys so much for your time. We certainly do appreciate you um giving us in the middle of your hectic schedules and get us some money. We will do our best and I and I'm remiss in not stop those bills. We will I I'm remiss in not thanking the
manager for always being responsive almost instantaneously to our calls, emails or texts when when we have questions on things. Uh Francine, I just want to personally thank you for the responsiveness and Sammy as well. He's
been very helpful for me. He is. He is. Thank you all so much. Thank you all for your time. Hey, by the way, for the record, I got B boxes in my backyard. I love them. [Laughter] And I'm not ginger. I got I got three
big B boxes. Deep ones. Thanks, Rod. Thanks, guys. Everybody, thanks everybody. Byebye. We need to get back to this other one. whisper up here. Let's fix these last two things. We'll You'll get a chance to
speak after the citizens do. Yeah. Okay. I'm so sorry for interrupting you. Please, can you go back to what you were saying? I I was I think I finished my questions. Yeah. She was asking about cow fencing and regulations on it. Like I said, we don't they're supposed to be
fenced obviously, you know, just to maintain the cattle, but we don't regulate how they're fenced. So So if there's five cows on 10 acres, the 10 acres has to be fenced, right? It should be fenced. Yeah. I mean, if it's
should be fenced the the the perimeter of the property or you have a minimum amount of property that cows are allow. So if there's five cows, how do you is there a m is there a minimum? Like can you put five cows in a room
this size and c and I mean it's it's not going to be good for the the land. You're basically doing a feed lot. I mean we might approve something like that if you're showing us that you're typically with cows it's pasturing, right? But if but some people have pasture and then they move them to feed lots to hold them and those areas could get classified as well if it's if it's
part of a bigger operation. Do we allow feed lots here? No. Okay. Yeah. I mean, we don't see him very often, but that's what we do. Okay. I I'm not sure if that answers my question or not, but thank you.
Virginia Standish. Hi, Keith. Virginia Standish 15410 North Road. So, I have three points slashquests. you discussed standards that the state sets the the guidelines, but each county
can adjust the standards. So, it sounds like we have a good group of people in here to work with you and let you know. So, they the town could come to you and ask to review this and increase that. Is that what I'm understanding? They come they could come to me and say, "This is
what we do and show me data." And and then who once they do that, who reviews that? Is it a judicial process or does is it the top person? Well, there's there's different things. The the the state sets the the statutes, the laws, what's required, but they're not
specific about each use. So, there's, you know, hundreds of different uses. So, we try to look to see what's done in the larger industry. Um, so it's really localized as far as the the county in general is the industry, but the state does most people in the state do more or
less the same things, you know, in the industry. We have Yeah. We have a strong group of knowledgeable people here that will I'm open. Yes. So I'm glad to hear they're going to are willing to work with you. My question then is once standards are in place who does the
training of these a appraisers especially the new ones. Well I do and my I I had when I came in I had a team of three appraisers that had been there forever and as they've moved on and retired I have one person that's been there for almost 30 years when you first came here. Yes. And Right. and and then
I have a new appraiser that were you know we're still training. Okay. So it's kind of ongoing because you you learn you pick up things over the years that you didn't realize you didn't know. So they don't necessarily come in knowing at all and they are learning as they go. So that brings me to my next question.
Um something that happens out here that I have heard um if they come to the property and they don't see let's say a livestock animal let's say a horse. They don't see a horse in a barn, whether it's out at show or out on circuit, and
the pastor is not worn down. Some people are saying, and I do not know if this is true, they're getting an automatic denial. Does that happen? All right. Now, not necessarily, but if somebody, again, I I invite people to let me know if they if they feel they're inappropriately denied. We get very few
calls about it, and that's the thing. I don't get a lot of feedback on it. So, if somebody gives me feedback and says, "Listen, I can tell you I absolutely," we had one this year actually. They told us, they said, "We have absolutely horses here." They weren't here for like one month and we went back out and looked and in May and there were tons of
horses out there. So, we're not and we haven't issued any denials for this year yet. Um, but then you haven't issued have you issued any approvals. We haven't issued anything. We July 1st July, right? July 1st is the date. So, nobody knows what's gone for this year, right? Um, and then I've had and to that
point, I've had people say, "Oh, hey, other counties do it earlier." Every county is different is what I'm telling people, what I've heard. Palm Beach County has its own uh deadlines. The last question is, what does a new business do to qualify when they're in year one? Well, we do have people that
depending on the business, some people won't have any sales data, but they can give us a business plan. We see that the activities there. I mean, I have a tons of them. They're, you know, they're a fruit grove and they plant their trees in rows. It looks like a grove. They're in the right spacing. and they have them out there and they give me a plan and say, "Listen, we're not going to have
fruit for five years, six years. Here's what we're going to do to maintain. Here's how we'll sell them." I don't look for anything, you know, ridiculously detailed, but something to give me an idea of what they're planning to do and it should look like a commercial operation.
Yes, Cassie Suchi. Um, Virginia asked a couple of my questions, but I will ask. So, we are a rural town. We're trying to get a rural designation. Again, obviously from what we're hearing, is it possible that as a town we could be
treated or addressed differently because we are a unique rural town, different from other municipalities in our county? And could it be something that your department could we could address it more like as a town? um that it's not
that we could address it as an entire town like as a different set of rules, but if there's a unique operation that goes on specifically in here, we'd have to see it. Okay. Because my concern, my understanding, I'm trying to understand it is I listen to people and you know, I
don't I don't remember hearing these problems in the past years. Is it because we've had new employees that are learning? They're on a learning curve. Um that's very possible. And a lot of what I hear is it's the interactions a lot of people don't like and we're addressing those. And I and I invite you
specifically Dr. Marshall had said that um somebody was was nasty to you or inappropriate and hung up on the phone. Anytime any of our staff, whether it's my staff or any staff at the property appraiser, I I would say if it's my staff, write me an email. I'll forward
the email to administration so that they know because I'm there. I hear the phone calls. I don't hear a lot of that, but I do hear feedback from people that said people were abrupt or people maybe were very short with them or someone was nasty and and and again, I don't always see it, but um if somebody sends me an
email, I'm certainly going to address it. I'm not going to just ignore it. I will send it on to administration and let them decide what to do. Our last comment, Todd McClendon. Um you know, I've been dealing with Keith. I dealt with him many years ago. His predecessor, if you
think he's bad, his predecessor was horrendous. You would believe you'd probably be sitting in jail right now to deal with her. Okay. Diane Pendleton. I didn't want to say the name because I didn't want to. That's okay. I said it. She was brutal. I mean, she used to illegally trespass. She was on channel 5
hopping fences, walking through people's yards without without authority. She was horrendous. Um, so one thing, if you had these general standards on your website, I don't know, you do. You said you have a lot of stuff on your website. Some of it's on there now. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe putting some of these general standards
on there would be more helpful for people. Um, somebody had mentioned that you need an attorney when you go to a magistrate hearing. That's inaccurate. I mean, if you do your homework and go prepared, they're pretty informal, these magistrate hearings, if you wanted to fight them. I've been to six magistrate hearings and I've won every single one
of them. So, you can go to those magistrate hearings without an attorney. If it goes to circuit court, that changes things. Um, you know, the the amount of animals or the amount of livestock per acre has changed over the years because a lot of people want free roaming chickens. You know, you can go out to these chicken
farms and you'll have a million chickens in one building that is occupying four acres. You know, people are trying to spread their h their animals out more. Um, I think probably that should be adjusted some. You know, the the head per acre and and I know you can't set exact standards because one parcel might
be able to five acres might handle 10 cattle. another one might only be able to handle one because of the grass, this the amount of sun that's on there, you know, that sort of thing. So, it all changes based on individual parcels, one right next to another would be two different things completely. So, I understand you can't have exact
standards. Um, and please stop saying a exemption. It's an a classification. It drives me crazy because he's not exempting anybody. You get taxed differently. It's an ad classification. Thank you.
what I was trying to get what I was trying to get at and that is can a cow can a cow be can 10,000 cows be on a piece of property that has no shade and no grass and be cons you know without need well
if it's not right and there are okay It's supposed to support the cattle at least for the most part. And yeah, I mean there should should be access to water. Some of them have shade, some don't. We look for pasture and we look for, you know, to see that there's grass
and we grade them slightly differently. Even most of them are kind of native or slightly improved. I mean, so there's different levels, but the price in terms of the rates not that significant. Okay, I have two more council comments up here and then we're gonna move along. Who was first? I wasn't up here. Let us
go. So, and what I wanted to say earlier, um, Keith is here. We're trying to find solutions. Okay. So, you know, I understand that
several people have had issues in the past. And Keith, do you work with Dorothy Jax at all? And work for Dorothy Jax. She's smart. But how often do you talk to her? Fairly regularly. So, do you think we could include her maybe in
this conversation next time you speak to her or does she not have any regulation over the agricultural department? I mean, she ultimately determines how we interpret the law. I mean, as long as it's within the law and she would certain she's never certainly asked us
to do anything that's inappropriate. So, I mean, she sets what she feels is the correct standard. We we make the interpretation, but if she feels differently about it, it's her word. We're deputies, so you know, we follow what her order is. Well, what I find interesting is that you guys,
although you're inspecting the agricultural community and you're deciding if they are um determined for a classification or not, but it appears
that the past inspectors I've met, and I do know you have one longstanding long-term inspector that I I think I would of I don't know why he's not visiting our town, but he's been doing this a long time. I heard you have but
um I just don't understand why the people in the past have been hire that have been hired don't really have any kind of um animal experience. I mean, not even
on their own. not, you know, it appears that they they have nothing, you know, not even 4. So I I'm a little confused about that because like I said in the beginning of my comment earlier, I feel like sometimes we got have to train them
as well that we as residents have to train them and nobody here has time to take out in the middle of their day because most farm owners also have a second job to support the farm. So to to take time out of the day to go fight
with magistrate and Todd is 100% right. If you leave one document, if you are not prepared, you really have to be prepared, you are turned down. So I'm just hoping that you're here tonight. I
I did request for you to come and you know I apologize it was a little heated but um we really want to work with you and try to come to a solution regarding the ad classifications in Lockxahhatchee
groves and I don't know how many other rural towns you have in Palm Beach County maybe besides Belgrade Pokei and South Bay but we are at the outskirt of that and we would like to be
included in some sort of more agricultural friendly assessment. Absolutely. And and like I said, I would certainly be be happy to come listen and if you had a group of people and you wanted to discuss these standards and
you wanted to throw out some ideas and why and and and you know, data and a little bit of information as to why you feel it should be changed, I'm certainly willing to listen. Thank you. I mean, that's that's the idea. And I apologize. I don't mean to get heated. I mean, I know Mr. Smike and I argue a little bit
and I don't that's that's not my intent. My intent is to genuinely come out and listen and hear the, you know, if people have grievances, I want to hear it. I mean, I've done it before and this is what I'm here for. All right. Well, and a is very personal to these folks, too. And sometimes an abrupt agent, you know,
e exacerbates the situation. I understand. And and that's not the way I want to function and that's not the way I want my staff to function. That's why I said if if staff is short with people or people feel they're disregarded, I would like to hear about it and preferably in an email because then it's in writing. I can pass it on and then
you know everyone's aware. Paul, I'll be quick. Not to beat on that horse, proverbial horse, but yeah, it it's I I think where the and just my opinion, I think where we where a lot of the area gets great or
whatever. I think if you can prove and something for a workshop that maybe, you know, folks from Jupiter Farms could be involved in from Indian Trails, you know, Wellington even because there are a exempt farms in Wellington. There's not just horses in Wellington. Sorry,
Todd. A classified. I'm old. We called it exemption back in the day when I used to have it. Um, you know, I I think like that standardized rule is, you know, if I can show proof that I'm a commercial business, agricultural business, you know, it's it's it's not
up to the property appraiser to dictate how you raise the animals. It's not up to the property appraiser to dictate that it takes, you know, unless it's a state, like you said, it's a it's it's it's a statute that says, you know what, to be a nursery, you got to have x
amount of plants and you got to show proof, blah, blah, blah. I I get that. But to say, you know, and it's not up to you guys to determine what kind of fence. It's not up to you guys to determine that. You guys are strictly there to determine is this or is this not being used for commercial use. So,
um, you know, and and Mr. Swank's, you know, defense. If he has proof that he purchased pigs and, you know, and he's using those pigs in a commercial purpose and, you know, he has x amount of pigs and he has and it's deems that it can fit in this many acres, then it should
be a no-brainer, right? It should there shouldn't be a lot of back and forth in this and that. I think a lot not a lot of of of, you know, interpretation because like you said, you know, the the final interpreter is is whoever the director is at the time and you're a deputy of the director, right? But I mean, if the law states you can have
pigs, then you can have pigs. And as long as I can say, you know what, I sell three pigs a year and I'm turning a profit. You don't have a profit. Yeah. After so many, don't you? You don't have to do that anymore. Trying to You have to be trying to turn a profit. You have to be trying. Well, years ago, you had
to. Years ago, you had to. Years ago, there's been some cases where they've determined you don't have to, right? because years ago you had to prove you had to show you know documentation for tax purposes and the federal government take your you know your farm whatever away cuz anyway so you could be a lousy
farmer I am amen I lose money for you I'm killing some banana trees right now but um yeah so I I just think that maybe maybe a workshop that's county I mean you guys look they're not going anywhere guys we we we
reside in Palm Beach County the town lock statue grows reside in Pal resides in Palm Beach County and we're not become we're we're having you know growing pains as an infant as an an infant uh municipality a town I can't see us becoming Palm Beach or
Lockahhatche County so until we become Lockache County we can't have our own property appraiser so you know we we I think like you said a committee or something or workshop so we can work with it even as a county as a whole I think that would be beneficial just to I think it would help you guys as well and
I I agree. Listen, you got to start somewhere. And if you hire somebody that's fresh out of college and they got to get trained, then they got to get trained. That's just, you know, not everybody's going to have, you know, horse horse knowledge. And there's there's 420,000 acres of a land in Palm
Beach County. 400,000 of it is like one half% of the work. The other 20,000 has the other 35 40 different uses in there. And that's where it gets tricky. I mean, we, you know, you you end up knowing a fair amount about most of them, but you can't know everything about all of them.
And also, when you think you know, you know, you've had enough people tell you that it's right and it's correct and they're fine and no push back and then somebody might have a difference of opinion. That's, you know, I'm not going to dig my heels in. I'm going to listen to people that do it for a living and see what they say. Okay, Lisa. Thank
you. Thanks, Keith. Yeah, I'd like to um piggyback on what Phyllis said. you know, you've got a lot of these um colleges graduating people with uh the agricultural husbandry degrees and and such. I I don't know what your hiring practices are, but it seems that that
would be a great pool for you guys to certainly draw from as people that clearly have a a strong agricultural bent and education. And I would like to remind my fellow council members that we voted to have the council send a letter to Dorothy Jax and copy you. That's not
what actually occurred. But yes, the point was to have Dorothy come and um that's not what happened. So, but thank you. Certainly. Okay, Marge. Yeah. When you give consideration for these meetings,
uh to have a um pot of stew of all different kinds of egg uh classifications is going to just create nothing. You need to have it so that uh you have
a a semblance of what the horse people need, what the cow people need, what the goat people need, you know, uh that type of of of grouping. So I mean they all have different needs. So you know come
up with standards you know uh as a group or or whatever and the same thing for the agriculture um you know little plants uh that you plant in your yard to make it
look beautiful is one thing but plants that you want to consume that's another thing you know um so how do you get your exemption for that and then your trees I mean they they sit there and grow and grow and grow and grow, you know, how do
you get your your standards for that? So, you need to have these people sit as a group and and explain the process of, you know, maybe their education uh at college brought up a lot of these things, the best uh management practices
and so forth. So, something has to be done in order for you to have better guidelines. It seems that's what I'm hearing from the the public. Thank you. Thank you for your time, Keith. We appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. Thank
you. We're going to take just a step back for a second because we have not actually approved the agenda because I wanted to have Ron and Ra and Mr. Pitman talk about SB 180 because there are some items that are going to have to be pulled. I believe we'll certainly talk
about it with SB80 in mind. Go ahead. Uh, go ahead, Valerie. Okay. So, I have kind of a a list. So, if um let me know if I need to slow down. So, we want to pull off of consent items number five and 11 and move them
to the regular agenda. You don't want to pull them. You want to move them for discussion. Correct. Well, yes. Underneath the regular agenda. Okay. We want to remove off the agenda discussion item number 20.
Okay, we want to add an item underneath the discussion to set a special meeting for the paddic project or is that after like 23 to set the meeting for the paddic
project? That's correct. Why was 20 removed? Staff is looking to draft a policy and bring that forward. Um, that's good. Okay. And I want to add something. Just please hold on a second. Let her finish. Go
ahead. We want to move public hearing after consent. So moving moving all of 25 26 I'm sorry 24 25 and 26. But we're going to pull 24 and 26, right? We are going to pull 23 and 26 due to Senate
Bill 180. Okay. I thought 24 also. Yes. 23, 24, and 26. We're removing off the agenda due to Senate Bill 180. So, we're basically moving 25 and 16A. Okay. So, let me just review. Excuse me, mayor. Yes, ma'am. Item
number 24 on fireworks was requested to have further study by PBSO's attorney. They were not um ready for this to go forward. Okay. In addition to SB 180. Okay. So, in other
words, what they spoke to me about last week, they want to look into more. I got it. Okay. Okay. Uh so, let me just review. We've already covered items one and two. I mean, one in three. I'm sorry. I would
like to add something to the agenda. Can she please organize it for us? I'm just saying. Can I just do what I'm doing here and make sure everybody's on the same page and then we'll move forward. So, we've already covered items one and two. Three. Three. One and three. I keep saying two. Thank you. One and three. We
still have to cover items two and four of the presentations. On the consent agenda, we're rem we're pulling five and 11 and moving them to uh after
17. So the consent agenda will consist of 6 through 10 and 12 through 16. So far. So far. Okay. And then after 16 we have we are moving the public hearings in front of the discussions. So
after 16 we'll do 25 which is all that remains of the public hearing. Mayor, the public hearing will go before the regular agenda. Correct. Okay. After 16 we'll do 25 which is the only public hearing that remains and then we will do
17 and then 511 18 21 and 22. Everybody on the same page? And then we're adding the setting a special meeting for the paddic project. 23. The new 23. We'll call it 22A.
2A. 22A. 22A because 23 got pulled. Okay. All right. Now, I need Bill is Well, let's get a motion to approve that first of all. Can I have a motion to approve that? To approve those changes, whatever they are. Second. Okay. All in
favor? I. Okay. Anybody opposed? Passes five to zero. Miss Manilia would like to consider us to consider adding something to the agenda. Yes. So, it's come to my attention that the two applicants we approved for planning and zoning did
never completed applications for planning and zoning. So, I would like to what do we approve? The verbiage is bring back. The verbiage is bring that vote
back because I would have never voted for anybody if I knew that they did not fill out applications. That's part of the process. We approved a bunch of uh they didn't fill out their applications. We approved a bunch of committee members that we did
not have their applications or or their backup. Well, I'm talking about the last one. Okay. But you're talking about one committee. At the last meeting that we approved two council members onto our planning and zoning, not just any committee. No, it wasn't planning and
zoning planning and committees. It was two members of the planning and zoning is what I understood. Who else had a planning and zoning person that we added? Mine was a Yes. And yours? Okay. One uldc, one planning and zoning. They
did not fill out their applications. Pointy was that for planning and zoning. Okay. So, let's let's let it's hers was PNZ. Yours was right for planning and zoning. Mine was
uldc. But we still never actually solved the issue of whether we were going to let So, I really think that it needs to be in the next agenda. I don't think that we can I don't think that they should be meeting any of those. That's why those resolutions didn't come back. Correct. That's why they didn't come back. So, can we please have a consensus
that we will add to the next agenda to look at those three appointments and whether we're going to let the appointments I know that we let land owners and not residents be appointed to ad hoc committees, but whether we're going to reconsider having land owners on those other committees. So, can we
put all that together in an item for the next agenda? Do I have a consensus for that? Yes. How many pages is it going to have? Yes. Paul gueststimate. Jeeoff, how many pages? No, I'm just kidding. Just kidding. Levity, please.
[Music] We'll do it for the next one. Okay, now we're on to item number two, which is the the audit report. Thank you for hanging in there for Wait, wait, wait. I the consent agenda. I had some stuff I had questions on to pull also. Okay.
Well, let's get through the the next two presentations since we have professionals waiting and then we'll do a motion to approve the consent agenda and you can pull all the items you want to as long as everybody agrees to it. Okay. All right. Go ahead. Uh Andrew, there you are. Hi. Hi. Good
evening everyone. Good evening, honorable mayor, members of the council. Uh just for the record, my name is Andrew Furman and I'm a partner with Gabayo Ferman and Garcia or CFLG for short. and I am the partner in charge of the town's audit. I'm going to provide a brief presentation on the town's annual
comprehensive financial report for the fiscal to September 30th, 2024. Now, I'm just going to walk through a few items and I'm going to start with the the first item which is the uh which is on page one, which is our auditor's report. And I wanted to paraphrase a few items within there. Um, and that that it is
broken up into it is broken up into various sections. And the first section is the opinion section. And it's the most important section. It talks about what we've audited as well as the numbers that are presented within the financial statements and that states that we have audited the accompanying financial
statements of the town of Lockahhatche Gross, Florida as of and for the fiscal year of September 3rd, 2024. In our opinion, the financial statements referred to above present fairly and all material respects the financial position of the town as of September 30th of 2024. Now that's an
unmodified or clean opinion and it's of course the only opinion that you want on your financial statements. The next section talks about under what standards we perform our audit. That states that we conducted our audit in accordance with auditing standards generally accepted in United States of America and government auditing standards. The next
section talks about what management's responsibilities are for the financial statements and that states that management is responsible for the preparation and fair presentation of the financial statements in accordance with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America. You shut finally finally I'd like to um talk
about what the our responsibilities are as auditors and that states that our objectives are to obtain reasonable assurance about whether the financial statement as a whole are free from materous statement and to issue an auditor's report that includes our opinions. Um the uh next section that
I'd like to point out um begins on page three and that's the management's discussion analysis. Um if you don't read anything else in this document, you should read this. It's you know it's it's 10 or 11 pages in this very large document. It's uh it talks about the year. It compares current year to prior
year. It talks about those changes during the year and um and it's written from management's perspective. So it's a really good uh executive summary. So I highly recommend reading that area that section
um after the management system analysis and that's beginning on page on page 816 is the actual financial statements. Um that includes the state uh governmentwide statement and
deposition as well as the fund financial statements for each of the individual funds. Um, the only item I'd like to point out there is actually on page 18, and that's the balance sheet for the governmental funds. Specifically, the general fund, which is the main operating fund of the
town, is the unassigned fund balance was approximately 1.1 million at September 30th uh, 2024. Then after the, uh, financial statements or the notes of the financial statements, um, that begins on page 25.
Um that's one of the biggest sections of the of the document. Um it it basically is the required disclosures that provide additional information on the town as well as the numbers that are presented within the financial statements. So it tells the whole story. So it is it is suggested and recommended that it does
get read in conjunction with uh with the uh financial statements because once again it gives it gives numerical uh detail as well as as well as um verbiage detail as well. And after the notes of the financial statements is the required
supplementary information. That's information that the government accounting standards board require requires that you include with your financial statements. Includes information on budgetary comparisons as well as information on the uh Florida retirement system uh pension fund as well. So that's that's included within
there. Um the last section that I would like to point out um is all the way in the back which is the compliance section. The compliance section uh begins on page 68. The compliance section um includes the reports that are required
under generally accepted government auditing standards as well as the rules of the auditor general of the state of Florida. We are pleased to report that we did not identify any significant deficiencies or materiences in internal control in order to test any instances of non-compliance. So clean reports in the in the back as well.
You will also um you will also receive with the with the financial statements, you're also going to receive a letter and those are specific matters that we're required to uh go over with you um as those who are charged with governance. Um they're all standard they're all standard um communications,
but a couple things that I wanted to point out was number one that we did not have any difficulties in completing and performing our audit and there were no disagreements with management. Um, overall, um, I'd like to thank Francine, Jeff, uh, Chris, the the rest of the
team for their cooperation, assistance throughout the process. Um, it was a clean audit, uh, this year. It was a smooth audit. Um, and we come in, we ask for a lot of information. We ask a lot of questions, we receive that information, we get those questions answered, then we ask more questions, we ask for more information. That that that
goes back and forth for, you know, for a few months, uh, as we as we go through the go through the audit process. Um, and we were able to receive all the information that we needed to be able to render our opinion and be here to uh present this clean report to you tonight. Um, with that, I'll leave it
there. Just overall, I just I would really like to thank the uh the council for the opportunity to be of service to the town and the trust that you have put in in me, my team, and my firm. Uh, we really appreciate it and and thank you for the opportunity to be of service. And I'll open it up to any questions that you may have at this time for us.
Mr. Coleman, good evening. I'm going to ask the same question I asked in our meeting just so it's clear. This was not a forensic audit of our town. Correct. That's correct. It's an audit of all all the controls and the checks and balances
in place in our town. Correct. Yes. It's so it's an audit it's an audit of your financial statements as of September 3rd, 2024. And as part of that process, we we obtain an understanding of the internal controls and the processes. And we do and we do walkthroughs of those internal controls and processes as part of obtaining our understanding for the
financial audit. So when you say it was a clean audit, you mean that all our checks and balances and our controls are in place and working. Correct. Right. So that yes. So when I say so when I say it's a clean audit that that your your
financial statements are not materially misstated um that they can be relied upon. they can and and and by by stating that um it means that if there's any any any issues that there finance statements would not change the the the decision of a decision maker reading those. And as
part of the audit, we are we we do review internal controls and the reports in the back state that we did not identify anything that we would need to to report to you related to any matters that we've noted regarding internal controls or compliance that we found to be an issue to be reported to you. Thank
you. You're welcome. Andrew, thank you for uh meeting with us. Uh my fat committee member and myself and uh some staff. So I I think this is really more a question for staff because my committee member had a lot of
questions and I know Jeff, you were part of that. Were you satisfied that Tracy got her questions answered in our little session? I know you spent a little time with her. Yes, we spent we spent some time
together. Uh, and I I believe that I believe that Tracy was uh satisfied. Um, obviously to to know that for sure, you'd have to ask uh Tracy. Um, but she didn't, you know. Well, she's back
there. Well, then then, you know, it would be better for Tracy to answer the question whether she was satisfied with But I know Andrew and I we we had a nice talk and and I I appreciated your explanation of the financial statement audit and um
I think really the questions that dealt more with some of the staff level questions that Andrew said was not really their job to answer. So um I I tried to answer any of the inquiries that uh Tracy had and so far as I know
she's okay with. Right. Well, I did describe Blackbot as Alice in Wonderland. So, it's it's kind of a crazy place to go visit. Super powerful, but super scary. Yeah, for sure. So, thank you, Andrew. You're welcome. Anybody else? Any public comment?
No. No public. Make a motion to receive and file. Second. All right. We have aation. Thank you. Thank you so much, Andrew. while you're walking at one side. Th
this is a statutoily required audit that we have to do annually yet. So by June 1st. Yeah. So and oh and which I'm told it wasn't done in the past from our
former fact committee chair. So yeah, it's it's a it's a this is statutory compliance that we're dealing with. So thanks again, Andrew. Thank you very much. Have a nice evening.
You ready? Wait. Here. Come on here, girls. Okay. I should probably get out of the picture. Officers are dedicated public servants who play a vital role in maintaining the health, safety, and quality of life within our community. And whereas these
officers provide essential services by enforcing local codes and ordinances that safeguard the character of neighborhoods, promote responsible property maintenance, protect the overall environment of the town. And whereas code enforcement officers often work in challenging conditions, and are
required, don't laugh are required to balance enforcement with education, diplomacy, and public outreach. And whereas their work directly supports the town's mission to preserve its rural and agricultural character by ensuring compliance with zoning, land use,
building, environmental, and other public safety regulations. And whereas the state of Florida and municipalities across the country recognize the second week of June as code enforcement officer appreciation week to honor these unsung heroes of local government. Now
therefore, the mayor and council of the town of blockside, Florida, do hereby proclaim the second week of June 2025 as code enforcement officer appreciation week and encourage all residents to recognize and appreciate the important work done every day by the town's code
enforcement staff and code professionals throughout the state. ready much out there. What about building code administrators week? I'm just saying a little biased on that one. Was it Oh, is that what that that was a that
was a couple weeks ago. We got a whole month safety month, right? Building safety month. Is that what you're going to claim? All right. I know. Right. Now we're on to the consent agenda. Lisa, you had something you wanted to say? Uh we we know that two
five and 11 are five and 11 have been moved. They've gone to discussion. Yes. So uh I have a couple questions and Mr. Galant did answer some of them earlier. Um but some of these are just quick
questions, but this is so much spending in the consent agenda. I'm I'm very disturbed by how much money is in this consent agenda with a few things clearly budgeted and previously approved for. But I would like to pull
679 10 13 14 and 16. That's pretty much the rest of it. Yeah, maybe. But they'll be quick. So six, you want to pull six seven9. Why is six afraid of seven?
because 17 uh 10 13 14 13 10 14 and 16 16. So what mayor if there if they're really quick questions Oh sorry
Phyllis still getting used to light one two three four five six seven items. Phyllis, what did you have to say? So, I sat with staff and I went over the consent agenda and the entire agenda and I would like to make a motion to approve
the consent agenda with the um exceptions of five and 11. Okay. Well, I mean, if they truly are quick questions, can we just deal with now? We sat with staff. I don't think it's necessary to
drag out this meeting. Anybody could come in and talk to. May I speak? May I speak to that, please? Sure. It says right here under the consent calendar on page one of our agenda, any town council member without a motion may pull or remove the item to be considered
separately. So, those are the items I would like to pull. And you said that, but do you need a vote? No, it says without a motion. It says without a mo. It says without a motion. That's what the rule says or the the verbiage on the agenda. My point is if there are quick questions and they
can be I know I had a couple questions and they were actually I got answers earlier today. I have a motion on the table. Does anybody want to second it? It's without a motion. So we need a motion to approve the consent agenda and the consent agenda. Motion to approve it.
812 and 15. Motion to approve. 812 and 15. Do I have a second? That's what it takes to move. Second. Um, mayor, with your indulgence, I believe that Mr. We do, but I believe that Mr. Coleman, Council Member
Coleman, might have been suggesting maybe we ask these questions before we approve the consent agenda and we can still do consent. Yeah. Okay. That's my my thing is if if they truly are quick questions,
we might be able to just get it done. What's your question on number three? I mean I I do you have you are you against that Lisa? Number six. Okay, Mr. Galant, can we get get signs that can't be seen from outer space? They're gigantic and plus we have to worry about where we're storing them when we're not using them.
Well, they be stored at public works underneath the pavilion and I understand. But the signs we're guarding are slightly smaller than the ones because those are huge mongus. Yeah, those are rentals. Those are rentals. I understand. Yeah, the on the ones we're getting Yeah, the ones we're getting are smaller. the medium. The same. Yeah, cuz
those are a little beyond the pale. Um, number seven. Number six. Six is good. Oh, good. Um, seven, you you mentioned that there's a price increase. Do you have an idea what percentage increase we can expect under Palm Beach aggregates?
Um, I believe that the price increase went up by $11 if I remember correctly. Yeah, it's almost like 50% or something like that. And it's it's beyond um our control. Uh no, I was just curious what what that number represented. So is it
not also accurate that we used a lot less material this year? [Music] Oh, 19. Richard, is it not also accurate that we used a lot less material this year? That we've had to order a lot less material this year? Yes. Yeah, I know
the here is we're actually what we've actually done is so we've got a bunch of POS that we just issued for material before the price increase. Okay, good idea. So yeah, good idea. So um yeah, theoretically, but I mean we we also contracted all the other companies and
all the other companies were significantly higher. So they are still unfortunately the lowest price. Uh Pommy Jag is still the lowest price. They just got bought by a private equity firm who decided that they weren't making enough money. So they raised the price. So they're still giving us a break compared
if you were to call them and say I want Sure. Sure. So with that price break and then we are adding the potential for additional hauling fees is that going to offset I don't really understand like if we order from Palm Beach Adqu it it's delivered. No, right. No, we use CD
trucking. Right. We Oh, okay. That's No. Sabone is who we've added. Nope. Sibonet is the same people that own the same people, but now it's a nine hour minimum. Sibonet is a is a brokerage company. So, all of the dump truck
drivers are independent operators, and they go through there's two or three companies. One's Austin Tupler, Sonet, and I forget who the other one is, but they um broker the dump trucks. And so Palm Beach Aggregate sells us the material for X amount of dollars and
then S Bonet delivers it to us based on the mileage. So from Palm Beach A to here, wherever it is in the town, it's not always consistent because if they're going to North Road, is there a different fee than it if they're going to collect? But that's not how this consent reads it. It reads that they are
being contracted in addition with a 9-h hour minimum at $85 an hour when Palm Beach Aggregates doesn't have the the trucking capacity. You can have whoever whoever you want haul it. Excuse me. The 9-h hour minimum is if we contract them
to haul directly for us. So if when we go to say we're going to dredge canals, there's a 9-h hour minimum that we have them haul directly if we're loading their trucks. Okay. That's not how the item reads. The item reads that when Palm Beach Aggregates doesn't have the
trucks to do the hauling, we're going to tap these guys to do it. So, I was just curious how the price increase, how great it was, and then also how it's affected um
by by the hauling additional cost of hauling. So, so that that clearly is not really what's represented in the item or No, the memo is not clear. Okay. Right. Palm Beach Aggregates provides the goods, the materials. I understand. The trucking is
provided by CBAN. We don't have to use CBA to do the trucking. We could use anybody. We could use our own dump truck to do the the hauling. Okay. That's a lot of hauling. All right. But that's now we're going two different directions. One's coming from Pame Jaggers and one's now leaving us, right?
That's what you said for dredging or can it's going away. We have them pulled to our locations. Okay. And then number Wait, we have a public comment on seven. Okay. On the entire consent agenda on the entire Okay. So number nine for the
fencing. Are we fencing a particular property? I'd like to hear the public comment. Let's Go ahead. Go ahead, Lisa. Ask your question. Um we actually have so we have uh we have different work we got to do
at different places. There's areas of public works that need to be refenced and the fence needs to be fixed. We have um Hyde Park that we do around the pond that we're looking at doing fencing there and there's a couple other locations. We have property at E in Okachobee that we obtained that we're
going to be using as a layown area that we're going to fence around it. So yeah, there's several areas around the town. Okay. Um, and then number 10 has a duplication of equipment that's already townowned, and it does mention that in the in the particular agenda item. Um,
why are we renting duplicate equipment? Can I answer that? No. Because because it's there's different there's different sizes of excavators and other equipment. So they sometime like uh like during the election there
was a discussion about u why we have two exh excavators. Well one has a a long reach that reaches 40 ft. The other one is for smaller jobs. Um when we removed the roots and stuff from Hyde Park we had to rent an excavator because the two
excavators we have aren't big weren't big enough. One was grossly oversized and the other one wasn't big enough. Um, so that's why we instead of spending a quarter of a million dollars to buy equipment, we just rent it for a few thousand dollars and for the time we have it, then we return it and we're not
responsible for any of the maintenance or anything. There's also going to be times when you need more than the one piece of equipment that we have. For example, um when we're when they're going to be working on a road, they anticipate having multiple pieces of
equipment or if our equipment is down for some reason for service or whatever and we need equipment for something, we have the ability to rent it. Um GVI um on number 13. Um they were formerly, I believe, the farmer's daughter. Um and I
know there was a lot of site work that went on there. Um, are are they in compliance? Um, they brought in a bunch of Phil, brought in a bunch of equipment, put it in the back. No idea. Okay. I I would like to make sure that they actually are the
contracts are based on pricing. They're significantly they're piggybacks. Well, since they're in our town and we've had some contractor issues in the past with people that live in the town, um I know Phyllis has always um had issue with a certain worker here, but um and then you
had answered my question on 14 uh about do we have easements on every one of those properties listed and you said the work will not begin until those are obtained. Correct. both both of these uh 14 and 15, we have to give notices to proceed before they start any work. And
because it's a three-year contract with the vendor, we have up to three years to give them a notice to proceed. Okay. All right. Just want to make sure. And 16 I I have serious issue with. Um I know we we chose her homes because we were going to save money and then now we're going
to spend almost $200,000 to grade a swale. I've spoken to several people on 161st. They say the road isn't isn't flooding. Um I I think that I believe uh public public works
was supposed to do the site work separate from what the paving part was. Um I just am very concerned about basically spending 187 for an outside contractor when we have a capable uh public works department.
So the 18 when when we approved the FY24 paving plan at that time the council had sp stated that they no longer wish to have roads that were haphazardly installed with no drainage that were inoperable. One of the biggest issues
and I'm not sure who was spoken to 161st because everybody on the west side of 161st floods their property floods right but that's not our problem. That's Well, that's not our problem. Those are low
land. The swag and the road does flood. I I do beg to differ with you because I've been there when it's rain and seen the road underwater in its current state paved. Um, you know, the road the water has to come off the road and stay off
the road so it doesn't keep traffic or anything like that. Um, also part of the fill from that this project is actually going to go for the a-road project which will actually save the town about $70,000. Um, the part, like I said, the council at that time had it decided that
they wanted us to have roads with swailes. Um, we were going to do it internally, but we do not, we lack the manpower, the equipment, and everything else to do it ourselves and still complete the A-Rod and collecting canal project. So at some point 161st has to
get done. Um if this is not approved then we will have to make a decision. Do we continue to allow the properties on 161st to flood? Because we are responsible for giving them a path for water to leave their properties to go to
our canal system which was part of the agreement in 1979 when those properties came into the to the water control district. or we have to put the in the our internal staff does that work or we um do a or do the a-road project and
just blow and not do the 161st project because we can't do both internally. We have to have a contractor do one or the other. Microphone, Mr. Kurts. And what you have what you have to remember um is that
what was what was unanticipated at the time that we had um gone through last year's budget and and assigned these projects was that uh Hyde Park was not scheduled to to be done but because of
the tornado um and the opportunity to uh have the Hyde Park work uh funded at least in part by FEMA dollars. Um there was direction to move forward with the Hyde Park project. The Hyde Park project
took a lot of time and staff effort. Um as Mr. Coleman has suggested, it uh it looks like it's a great successful project. It's uh what we're talking about now is having to do the the rellandscaping of that. Um but that
project took a considerable amount of time and that's why when the her bids came in at the point that they did we had additional monies left in the capital project and to and our
recommendation is to move the town staff over to a-ro have them focus on that so that that can get done um in the by the end of the not the fiscal year at this point, but at the end of the calendar
year, um, and have a private contractor take care of 161st. They'll be able to do that more quickly than we can, which will help them. Yeah. Right. So, what is
the scope of work that public works is going to be doing on a-road? Um, they are going to be That's another item, isn't it? It is but just very very briefly what they are doing is uh they
are ex essentially expanding the amount of land that is available uh for the roadway they're widening the road base by um filling in portions of the canal straightening the canal
positioning or straightening well yeah I I understand that you're straightening it but you're putting in what is it 11,000 cubic yards of Yes. Okay. Thank you. All right. Paul, you had a comment and then we have a public comment on Yeah. I just real quick um I
just want to so just to cl for clarification because you kind of tapped on it but you didn't you know remember I asked the question too but the the savings from the her money is is is covering this expenditure I think is
where he was going because that's the way it was explained to me. Yeah, it's a not to exceed because I I I actually had a a question. I'm like, how how are we spending? It's clearly around 200 to 400 hours. How are we spending 600 hours on a wheeled backhoe
machine/loadader? And it's actually slated for multiple two machines and um not to exceed 600 hours. So, so it's I had a concern about it as well. Yeah. So it may not even get there because it's not going to take 15 weeks
to do okay public mlennon 341D road Paul I hope that answers your question it's not a quick question all right we just carried on for 15 minutes about something that should have been taken care of 15 now or 15 later Todd so I mean so so my point is when I
was sitting on the council I would come in meet with the town staff before meetings get all these questions answered. It's fantastic to have 50 questions. I'm glad that people are going through the agenda. They've got questions. They want to get educated. That's fantastic. It's disrespectful to everybody sitting here when these
questions could have been answered in public. If every council member came up there with an hour's worth of questions for every meeting, there would be five hours just for that. So, for one council member to have all these questions and carry on for 15 minutes and there's 20 people here, that's five man hours that just went down the toilet when those
questions could have been asked in advance. And it wasn't questions that just came up on the fly like, "Oh, I just thought of this." You came with the questions here tonight. Please start meeting with staff beforehand. However you need to do it, I don't know if you don't have the time or what it is. Please start doing it and be respectful
to the community. Thank you. All right. Okay. Do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? So moved. Second. Five and 11. So moved. Second. All in favor? Opposed? Opposed? passes four to
one. Okay, we're on to item number 25. Can I was just going to say, can we do our consultant first and then do 25? Is everybody okay? Is everybody okay with that since we have a consultant sitting here? Okay, how about let's do um 17 and
then 25, guys. They're bouncing off the I apologize everybody, but we're trying to get it all done. You're on. It's okay. It looks like a a highlighter exploded on my digital agenda. Introduce them since you were
the You put me on the spot. Um yeah, I listen I I said at the last meeting that you know when we were talking about doing this and I I recommended Shakree because I had an opportunity to uh to go through a strategic plan through a
what's kind of like a SWAT analysis with her and I I thought she was very professional. Um it's it's a it's a interesting experience and um I I think it'll give us some great insight. I think it'll it'll let us know what's going on and you know so I I highly
recommend Shakree. Thank you. Okay. Shakree. Chef, did you want to take this item or or we just going to let her give a presentation? You go. You're here. Okay. Perfect. So, good evening everyone. Uh Shakree Bryant and my colleague Dr.
Shannon McGee. Um, we actually wanted to be here today just to answer questions and go through the proposal that we submitted. I will ask for forgiveness in advance. I am not an evening person. I'm up at 4 a.m. So, uh, definitely forgive
me, but we have presented a proposal um to conduct a SWAT analysis for the town of L Shahhatche Groves. Um I don't know if you have had an opportunity to look at the proposal to see the various
components that we have included. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Um and so basically it's very straightforward. We're looking for an opportunity to come in conduct a SWAT analysis which will also include a very key component and that is a
communications assessment. Using that data along with um providing oneto-one interviews with yourself uh the key principles and also the staff will help us to gather information. Um we're
really looking to see if we can get to the root of the um gaps in communication, identifying some communication styles, leadership styles to provide a comprehensive recommendation for moving forward. I
loved how do you mind if I'm going to just take this off? So I definitely loved how we started the meeting very inspirational and a lot of discussion was had about what does moving forward look like? Assessments like this and
SWAT analysis helps to create a cohesive vision that everyone can not only buy into but clearly understand and communicate. And so those are some of the things that we're looking to do in terms of the deliverables. Um we would
provide a full scope analysis um based on SWAT. The communications assessment would be given to 26 individuals and that also comes with the full report. So it's almost like you get a comprehensive value ad. Um, also we
have a developmental road map which will really outline some of the key recommendations that we would provide for you. So we just wanted an opportunity to introduce ourselves, walk through the proposal and just be available if you have any specific
questions. Did you want to add anything Dr. Okay. Does anybody have any questions for Yeah. Can I have a chance to review the proposal? I don't seem to have the Yes, I did. You did. You had a chance to. You saw it? No, I didn't see
that. You don't have one? No. While you're looking for the information for those of you that don't have the proposal, I'll walk through the projected timeline. Um, we have a total of four phases here.
Phase one is discovery and documentation where we will review prior internal SWAT analysis. Um also reviewing some of the um meetings that you have conducted uh perhaps two or three. Um and then we
have phase three is where we really get together and analyze the data. And phase four is the final reporting and presentation. And the total estimated time is going to be about 7 to 8 weeks from start to finish.
So what do we need? A motion to approve uh moving one question for Paul. Did you have a question? Did anybody have any questions? Oh no. I was going to make a motion. Okay. No, hang on. Hang on a second. Lisa has a question. Sorry. You want to ask your question? I can ask
mine. You your head. No. So just so average each interview we're talking 26 interviews plus co comp compilation of data. So just so everybody understands average interview takes approximately on the average around what
10 15 minutes could be longer depending on the amount of detail or whatever. Great question. Much like what we conducted for Palm Beach County, we try to give each employee about 20 minutes to walk through the SWAT analysis and to also add any additional comments that
they may have. What typically happens is if you have someone that's very analytical, they will breeze through a lot of the questions, which in terms of if someone is more people oriented and has just more color and texture to add to the conversation, they typically go
over, but estimated about 20 minutes per person. My question was um funding. Do we have funding in the the budget for 25 for this? Yeah. Are we do we have funding in the budget
for this the strategic plan microphone again? Microphones there. We need a budget for microphone. Funding. Do we have funding in the budget for another mic? Yeah, thank you for that. We will find it if
uh that's the direction of of council. Um, one of the one of the principal areas that we could go to um to get those funds is that I think there was $20,000 allocated for election
expenses than our election expenses. Uh, one less than that I consider the whole amount. Um, so there are there are monies that you've given. There was not been monies that were specifically
allocated that process. Okay. Did that answer your question? Yes. Thank you. Okay. Phyllis. Um, may I ask, um, is this a result of the investigation that we're doing for the
anonymous complaints? I don't know that it's a result of it. I would say I would say it's a fallout. We decided that a SWAT analysis and seeing getting a check on the pulse and the health of the organization, we decided by a vote of I
believe four to one. Was it a vote of four to one? Somebody remind me if I'm wrong. Um, but I believe it was a vote of four to one. We decided that getting getting a a feel of the pulse of the organization was a prudent thing to do as to a to ensure that everybody feels
safe in their workplace and b to move forward with strategic planning. Does that answer your question? Yes. Oh, here it is. SWAT 41. Yeah. Okay. So, what we need is a motion to move forward with a
contract. Is that correct? I would make the motion that moves forward allowing the mayor or the manager to sign the professional services agreement subject to review by the attorney. Glenn, you
okay with that? I'm sorry. He's on mute. Yes, I was on mute. Yeah. Yes, that's fine. Okay. Make a motion. Go ahead. Make a motion to move forward with
um how actuate actuate consulting um to move forward with the SWAT analysis for the manager or the mayor to sign. Is that was was that well as Mr. says the manager to move forward with
the project. Second. All in favor? I opposed. Passes five to zero. Thank you ladies for being here to work with you. Thanks for staying ladies. Good night. Okay, now we're going to go to item 25.
Glenn, you ready? Glenn. Yes, madam mayor. Mayor, you're on. Glenn, one second, please. Mayor, may I read the ordinance title into the record? Could you please read the title for us? Consideration of approval of ordinance number 202502 on second
reading. An ordinance of the town council of the town of Lockxahhatchee gross Florida amending article one in general article two and proper disposal of waste materials and article three collection of waste franchises and registration of contractors authorized all of chapter 38 solid waste of the
Lockahhatche groves code of ordinances provided providing for conflict severability codification and an effective date [Music] I think that uh Lisa Well, hang in there a
second. Glenn, do you need to say something before I take council questions or are you just here to answer council questions? I think you you're all familiar with this ordinance. We've been working on the solid waste ordinance for a while. It brings the town's code into compliance and
conformity with state law. Uh obviously can answer any questions that you got. And for the record, um there was an additional supp supplement uh for this ordinance that was provided to you today with some minor tweaks from the attorney's office. So, please refer to
that ordinance um that was provided. Thank you. Yeah, it was up here. Yes, you need to use this one guy. Is not the one that's in your packet. Might have to speak to what the changes are. Okay. Phyllis, did you have questions?
Uh, I'll wait for Paul and Lisa to go. Lisa, go ahead. Which one are we doing this one? 25. Yeah, we previously discussed um how we would utilize code enforcement um to
to actually try to um enforce this. And uh in my research in preparing I also had questions regarding and I think the attorney could speak to this as a non-exclusive franchise
agreement we will not be able to require the haulers to actually sign up for this program is my understanding. So let me um make a comment here. This ordinance does not address directly this
whole franchise concept. It obviously would allow it, but if you're going to go down the path of franchises, exclusive or non-exclusive, there's still more steps you have to take. So, for example, you presumably would develop an RFP where you get
solicitations from anyone who might be interested in being a franchisee. you would as a uh council adopt policies, rules, procedure for how that's going to happen. You presumably would also have a draft contract that's
going to be attached to the RFP. So, you make sure that you're getting the service that you want. You got to establish a fee. So, this is all this is is opens the gateway, opens the door for going down that path, but that path is still one that's going to take a lot of work. Um, you're probably all aware of
the fact that one of the most latigious areas in the local government world deals with solid waste. The collection, transport, disposal. Uh, those lawsuits happen all the time from, uh, haulers and other companies. So, uh, this solid
waste ordinance looks at solid waste as a whole. And if the town then wants to go down the franchise route, as I believe, you know, from conversation with Francine, that's the way you want to go, then you're going to have to take some additional steps. So again, I would think that the next meeting you'd
probably have a draft RFP and a draft contract to look at and discuss and see if that's what you want to do. Now, my question though is, is the town going to be able to require the haulers to actually do the franchisee agreement?
That is an open question because we can't you can't compel somebody to contract with the town. Now, if if you adopt regulations
um in that in that vein, that's why I say this is only one step in the process. There's a lot of potential litigation here. So, we really want to take our time and do this right. It's step one in a process. I understand, but it's it's my
understanding legally we cannot like make the haulers sign up for a franchisee agreement. We cannot force the barns to use those people to haul the manure. And this is becoming a bit of a fool's errand to continue down this path financially. I know legal fees at
this rate already with livestock are at $13,000. And I want to understand that going down this path is going to actually create the outcome that we're looking for. And I know we talked a lot about heavy trucks and regulating heavy
truck um behavior on the roads. And I think that this is targeting the manure situation and I going back to Mr. Tarcivia's comments about latigiousness and and opening the town potentially to
liability here is is quite great. So um I just caution that we don't keep tumbling down a path that we're not going to be able to actually regain any control with is my point like
fireworks. Well, yeah, same thing. Okay, thank you, public property sheriff. Um, so we also don't have the ability to tell our code enforcement to stop vehicles. We have no way to weigh those vehicles when they're driving around. So, and solid waste authority, in my
conversation with them, they don't regulate manure. So, they don't regulate it. They'll tell you when you get to solid waste where you can dump it, but they have no requirements on how it's hauled as far as waterproof containers
or anything like that. So again, this is becoming a bit of a fool's errand if we can't actually make the haulers comply with it. Mr. Tivia, do you have anything to say in response to that? Well, again,
compliance going to be very difficult. you know, we don't have the staff. For example, we've talked in the past, we don't have weigh stations to weigh vehicles. Um, that's why I I keep emphasizing that this is only a step. If you want to go down this path further,
then yeah, definitely requires more research, more analysis, more thought about what's the end result. And you know, you you certainly cannot compel somebody to sign up to be a hauler. And then the question is going to be if they don't and they begin and they continue
or they haul, what's the remedy that the town's going to have available to it? Um, and those are all open questions. Those are all issues that have not been thoroughly researched because until this point, you don't you haven't even had the ability to do it until and unless you adopt this ordinance.
Mr. Tarivia. Yes, ma'am. This ordinance does not address any of the issues with implementing the franchise. How we do it, what procedures we do it, how we regulate it. It simply clarifies the
existing solid waste ordinance that does already include um franchise ability and it specifies livestock more clearly. um from where it is grouped into special
waste, not hazardous waste, but special waste. So this document on its own does nothing and doesn't spend another dollar unless we proceed with the meeting that we were directed to have with the haulers and discuss with them the kind
of agreement that they would be willing to participate in because that was the last direction from council with regard to the franchise part of this. meet with all the haulers and talk about how we might come to an agreement where we work
with the haulers on how we can better serve the community together. Um maybe it's self-regulation, maybe I don't know what the answer would be, but we were not supposed to bring that back until we went through the process with the
haulers. And this document does nothing to create any kind of risk to the town. It clarifies the ability to do franchises for special waste which includes livestock and that was in our
existing ordinance. Paul and I agree. I agree with what Francine's comments just were. Um, one word precaution when we meet with haulers, we have to be very careful that they're not going to provide input into as to what would be
in the RFP because they obviously can't help draft or develop an RFP that they're going to then respond to. So, more fact gathering information. So, just wanted to be clear about that. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Turivia. I'm sorry. Apparently, Miss Silvery
still has another question. Your light was off. Sorry. Um on on we did clarify it didn't require a cover, right? And that's what's been updated in this hand. That is correct. Okay. Correct. Yeah. Because a lot of questions about covers. So thank you. Doesn't nice but it
doesn't require Paul. Yeah. So I'm just and and I don't mean to go off on the tangent of the hauling thing, but when we talked about it last, there was no talk about weighing anything. Somebody had said something about weighing. I said there's there's no way
we can have our code enforcement people stop. They're not DOT certified to be able to do that kind of thing, stuff like that. So, we don't have scales, etc. Um, you know, and the sighting, etc. I mean, currently, right now, we have the ability to site people for using the wrong dumpster for construction, but we choose not to.
Correct. So, we we could code enforce those people that are not using or, you know, that are the hauler that's not compliant. So, I mean, we we technically right now we require you we require the only or we say the only we have an
exclusive agreement with Coastal to haul construction debris. Right. So, somehow that's com that I mean am I am I incorrect Glenn? I mean correct that's that's enforceable technically. We just choose not to enforce it. Correct.
Right. We have an agreement with Coastal to provide other solid waste services. They're exclusive. I I I get that. But that's splitting hairs. Just because we we we just because we say we're going to do we're
going to do bulk with vegetation and trash can pickup. We had to say we're going to do exclusive construction debris because we don't we don't enforce that clearly. We don't. I mean, you can go around town and see that that that
there's multiple different, you know, construction open rolloff containers that have construction debris in them. I'm not talking about manure. I'm just saying. So, I don't I don't understand how um we could not enforce it. I mean, if if I'm off base, please tell me. But
also, as far as a hauler workshop, yeah, that that's a that's a expenditure with staff, etc. Like that. I mean it could be like the PO or whatever that that you know we they they draft a document whatever and then then legal
can review it you know so it's not like we're dumping you know five eight hours or into two workshops with legal as well as staff etc. So that's I mean I think this is just a a step to be able to have
the ability right because as we know and then this is the second reading of this am I correct? Yeah. Yeah, as we know, everything needs two readings. So, you know, not that I don't disagree with a lot of things need two readings, but it's like some stuff you wish you could just go, okay? So, I don't know. That's
my two cents. So, thanks, um, so will this produce revenue? Not this ordinance? No. But should we be able to come to an agreement on what extent and how we would like to
implement a franchise program that will produce revenue. So this is step one towards that step one if we choose to proceed. Make a motion. Go ahead. I'm going to make a motion to approve ordinance 2025-02.
Second. Second. All in favor? I oppose. Huh? No public. Oh, I'm sorry. Are there any public comments on this? No, don't have any. Oh. Oh, here comes somebody. Well, the was the after the vote, but that's
okay. We'll still listen. And this is not a manure transfer station. To the voting. It is not question because not at all. Oh, it's not at all. Okay. Because I I know that with if you're a according to
RC farm manure, you can't uh regulate. So to what is RCA? Oh, I don't know what it stands for. Oh, okay. I mean, not that you can't regulate it to, you know, you have to regulate the healthy issues of it, but the picking up
and so on and so forth. You know, I'm just curious how that affects somebody with the manure on that they produce from their like question. If you use it on your farm, you're not hauling. So, this
wouldn't apply to Okay. So, and if I have get picking it up, it doesn't affect Mayor. Was that a 50 or conservation? I believe it was a 50. Correct. You you voted for that. Yes, it was a 50. Yes.
Okay. I'm going to suggest it's 8:46 and I know that we want to let Marge move around a little bit. So before we go on to our disc Oh, we got to do Let's do five and 11 and then we'll take a short break before our discussion items. Okay. Five. Hold on. It's fine. It's fine. Go.
What do you got? The town pool. Valerie. What's up with five? No. 20 2025 36. Valerie, that's actually Karen. Okay, Karen got you got it. So I actually have great news. So the hourly rate that you've
agreed to is $200 an hour. not the 215, $200 an hour, which if you look at the charges were on the low end of this firm, even less than I believe our existing law firm hourly rate. So, this is a good good rate. I've been to the code um special magistrate meeting. She
does a great job for the town. So, I am recommending that we go ahead and approve it at the $200 an hour. And I hear Great negotiating. Great negotiating. Thank you. Yeah, I would just like Yeah, 250. Exactly. I I I
brought that up. I I Yeah, good job, Phyllis. Good job. Thank you, Phyllis. Um, how long has this magistrate been working with us? This would be three years. The contract would be up in September, but we have a right to renew
it. So, this would be renewing it with the additional amount. So, for three years, they've been at the 195 with the cost increases and everything else, the salaries and everything else. That's why we're requesting the districts. They're going to all their clients for and not change. Is that it, Phyllis? No. Okay.
Um, why are we not changing magistrate at this time? I know you said they're doing a great job, but I have a few cases where I was a little
disappointed because I felt the town should have retained some funds. So, on more than a couple of times. So, why are we not There's a C I I would like to stay with one that does have
some A experience. I see Martin County is here. Is this all Davis? This is all Davis does all these counties. Yeah. And is there another magistrate that we looked at or we just renewing their contract? The proposal in front of you
is just renewing their contract. Um there are, you know, me, I'm a straight shooter. There are multiple special magistrates that are out there. Um, I will tell you in my experience of being involved with special magistrates, the rate that they're offering you is a good
rate. I' I've been in other jurisdictions where the hourly rate has been more. It doesn't address your concerns. I'll be honest. Whether you don't feel she's doing a good job. Well, I'm not I'm not I did not say that. Okay. But how many times do people
come back? Is it once and done? Do they come back more than once to magistrate? Because this is and why is the town on occasion not retaining any money whatsoever? I get people are going to
come into compliance but they have to pay for you for him for him for him for code and the magistrate I and and no special privileges for anybody that works for the town. So
I am for one am actually not super happy from you know some of the cases that I understand have been oh you know once they come into compliance there is nothing and this is them taking 3 to
four years to come into compliance and some of these are some very egregious okay um land owners in some cases is that stood right before us and and not a dollar. Okay. So, I
have a huge problem with that. So, I address the first one which is you asked how often is it continued. Um there's many reasons for a case to be continued, right? It could be because remember on co-compliance the objective is voluntary compliance. It's not to be
punitive. It's not voluntary though when you're finding them daily really if you get to that point. But again, if they come, it's multiple steps you have to take, right? So the first step is a notice of violation. So it's not a fine being assessed. It's the notice of
violation, which again, if someone comes in and they ask for additional time in order to get to voluntary compliance, the idea is that we will go ahead and give them that additional time. And how many times do they get that? depends on again depends on the circumstances. I
you know I can't I can only answer for the two months that I've been here you know so I can tell you the rationale over those months um and again it could be any number of reasons. All right so this is the thing we have some of our most egregious enforcement are going back and
forth in front of this magistrate. So on some of those maybe we should spend a little more, get somebody a little more aggressive and or or not and get the job done quicker. I mean, because at $2 an
hour, if they keep coming back five times, what good does that do? Because to get in compliance, kicking the can down the road. We've got so many code cases that have been going on
for five years and they're not. They're taking the hit. So So I I'm I'm not sure that maybe we should accept this person, but maybe we should go on. Is this an RFQ kind of
thing? It's not a requirement. It's not under that state. How would you get another magistrate? How would we get another one? So, there's a number of ways you can do it. You could do it, you can actually go out for a bid. Um, a lot of times what I do is I could just I I mean I know who's in the field. I mean,
I can send a letter to them and say, "Are you interested? What's your hourly rate?" We can bring those options back to to you know, you again, you generally don't have one special magistrate because that special magistrate could be on vacation or they put right. I see
there's two names here. Alternative. So again, it's really a desire of this council. I mean, if you ask from my perspective, the limited time that I've been here, she's been doing a good job. I will tell you she's she I trust you.
But however, this is falling on code and on us. Why is stuff not getting done? So way I can answer regarding some of the stuff in the past and I can't speak for the ills of my predecessors. We are
actually going through the cases right now looking to see the conditions of those cases. If cases are in a point where it is appropriate, we're working with the clerk's office in order to send out leans and we are looking at a foreclosure attorney. We have to come back to you as well as the special
magistrate if we're going to foreclose on any property to let you know. Okay. Well, when they're homesteaded, good luck with that. So, anyway, I'm I'm not on board with this only because um of our most egregious
um code enforcement cases have been lingering. So, I don't know. I'd like to hear from the rest of the people. Yeah, I I I get what you're saying, but the problem is is is we're not we're we're not uh unique in this issue, right, as a
town. We're not we're not unique in in code enforcement cases taking long time getting continued for whatever reason. you know, I you know, I I've heard numerous. I've had to be at a couple meetings and hearings and I've
heard, you know, multiple reasons why they asked for a continuence. What you know, what is it this time? And you know, generally what happens is the magistrate, whoever the person may be, you know, tends to lean on the side of coming into compliance. And I get what
you're saying about if you're charging, if you're citing them so much a day, how is it voluntary compliance? But it's nothing. I I I get it. But that's is the problem. Well, the issue is with the process then. It's not with the MA. I'm just saying it's not with the magistrate
themselves. Now, if we want if we want to have a conversation and each of us meet with the magistrate at $200 and $200 an hour, you know, and and say, "Hey, listen. This is what we're looking for." Or if we want to have them in here to have a conversation in front of us, I
I I say maybe we need to do that. And maybe maybe she maybe the magistrate can understand how her interpretation comes. There's like a cost recovery kind of a situation with the magistrate. if there's some way to put some kind of a standard on it like we spent this money
there's not there's not legal services and again I just want to allow me to so and again it's it's you know that magistrate's interpretation of what they're I mean it's no different than a judge sitting
before a murder trial it's their interpretation of what's happening in front of them at the time so if they want to grant a continuence they can grant a continuence as long as it's you know within the all that's what they can do. So, I mean, it's it I don't know. I was very surprised when she I I looked
at Karen with big eyes because I heard, you know, the other day it was 215 cuz I asked the question. I go, "How come we're Martin County is paying less than we are?" You know, if we're going to be 2, why are they paying 200? They're vastly larger than we are. We're this little bitty town. And then if you kind
of looked at the breakdown, you know, it was like, "Oh, well, how come this person, you know, Hokei was paying 200? Why can't we pay 200? They're five miles 5 point something miles worth three point something. Yeah. I I I don't know. I I I'm kind of with it. So I I I think
it's a good rate. I mean I haven't seen a bunch of others but have you done poll? Yeah. Oh, sorry. I mean I'm sorry Lisa. I'm so sorry. My hair is not blonde yet. Um, so I I it
could um I think piggybacking on what Paul said, the can council give staff some sort of minimal direction as far as when fines get negotiated down that there is a cost recovery. I'm sorry. Was
that a no? Yeah, that they said no such thing as cost. There's no such thing. Okay, but that is for magistrate, right? That's not for the entire case. We do put in for administrative fees to cover the cost of staff time. We can't do it for the magistrate and then we do the
penalties based upon our fee schedules. So can we make some standard as a part of our agreement that you can't reduce the fines to below what our administrative costs were? Yeah. No, we can't do that. Madam Mayor, can we ask nicely?
I mean, can we ask Glenn's waving? Glenn's waving his hand. Go ahead, Glenn. I just want to remind everybody that a magistrate is supposed to be an impartial judge. So, we can't really direct the magistrate how they should rule, otherwise they're no longer an impartial judge. Um, so no matter who
you select, they're supposed to be impartial. The town is the one that presents the case. You can certainly provide direction to the town, you know, the manager or Karen that you don't want to accept reductions, you know, that are
too low. But the magistrate has to consider what the town's position is and what the respondent's position is and then make a decision. So I just want to remind you that it's an impartial person whether it's this firm or a different firm that's doing it. Um they're not
they're not part of the town. They only are paid just like when the state of Florida has a case in front of a judge, the state doesn't get a benefit because the state is paying the judge a salary because they're a state employee. They're still supposed to be impartial. That's all. Thank you. But even in an
impartial with a a judge in court, there's they still can assign legal fees. So that's what I'm asking. I guess that's what we're asking you, Karen, is do you have a relationship with this magistrate or with some other magistrate that you feel you can say, "Hey, we've
got $20,000 worth of administrative costs into this. Please don't reduce the fine below that mark." Well, in general, administrative costs are not ever reduced. Administrative costs are always assessed and always should be recovered. It's the fine. Well, that's not been the
case with us. Mayor, please indulge me for a moment. We never wave the administrative costs. What I have asked Karen and her staff to do is re-evaluate the administrative cost to make sure that we are recovering the correct
amount of our administrative cost. the magistrate and Glenn you correct me where I'm wrong but the magistrate has to the magistrate has to follow the Florida statutes in determining how they
go through a process of reducing the fee and they question the um property owner they go through a lot of details sometimes they actually ask for a brief actually ask for detailed timeline They
ask for detailed expenses. They ask for a lot of information, but they must follow the statute. Now, what I think we can talk about is a minimum threshold. You know, perhaps I don't know if that's
legal, but I do believe that we could perhaps talk to our attorney about maybe, you know, looking at the minimum thresholds allowed in Florida statutes. That's about all we can really do. I'll
give you an example. Some of our cities have established by ordinance that uh the fine cannot be reduced to less than let's say 10% if it's a $100,000 fine that the magistrate cannot reduce it to
less than $10,000. So you can establish that the administrative cost as said is never waved. The town should always be collecting their administrative costs. the fine where the magistrate usually has the discretion and generally follows the town's recommendation as to how much
the reduction should be. Okay, Paul. Yeah. So, I guess my is where I'm going is we need to visit the fee schedule basically. So, we need to, you know, next month or so we need to revisit the fee schedule and have it come before us so we can approve a new
fee schedule or tell us. Right. Yeah. And perhaps an ordinance that puts sets up I like that idea. That's a percentage. So that part of that would be part of the fee schedule. Correct. Concern ourselves with SB80 because currently our code doesn't allow us to
do that, right? So if we can we will but we can we well is that considered we can start looking at it. But we can start looking at it and get it get it prepped for you know. Okay. Hang on. Um so another question.
So my suggestion would be if you if we could do the the percentage is if they come into compliance in six months, if it takes them a year, they lose some of that, you know, or you know
what I mean? there. It get becomes bigger a fine the longer you drag your feet to come into compliance because it seems that some folks only come in when they absolutely finally have to. Yeah, that's part of the fee schedule. So,
yeah. Okay, everybody's done with questions. We have a public comment. Yeah. Miss Standish. Virginia Standish 15410 North Road. Since 2022, I have endured listening to
these code cases online whether I wanted to or not. So, one, as you all know, magistrate follows procedure. They are guided by the town. They ask the town, you know, for input. The town gives them input. The
town has suggested fee reductions at times. It has always been said the goal of the town is compliance. That is the first thing has been said. I will tell you that you I don't believe your fee has changed in three years. What is it?
238.50 2835 whatever the number is. Um you also want to look at procedure. Um the magistrate isn't in the the issue when you it is my understanding now also that the the town attorney is no longer at the code enforcement meetings. Is that correct? That is correct because it
cost us $200,000. So this week, so this week's meeting, it was pointed out to me that the town attorney was not there and then I heard that they would no longer be attending. So, uh, things you can do, things I've seen over the past few years, make sure
the information's in the folder. If if the information isn't there, don't set the date. Don't have staff allow it to be postponed. Let the magistrate know the information is not there. example today of procedure that we were watching and even the
magistrate I thought I thought she did a good job of keeping a straight face. So people were there today for an issue um and they were too emotionally upset to appear so agreement was worked out with them verbally. You have nothing in
writing so process procedure and stick to it and follow it. Thank you. Thank you. Is that it? Okay. What? Motion to approve. Motion to approve. Second. All in favor? I
opposed. Passes five to zero. All right. Let's try to get through 11 and then we'll take our little potty break. Pause for the cause. Okay. Back to me again. Back to you again. So, um, last meeting we talked a little bit about
this civil citation process. It's an alternate process to the regular code enforcement process. To implement this, we need to provide through resolution, which is by your ordinance, a schedule of the violations and then the penalties that for those particular violations.
So, not every violation necessarily becomes a citation. So, we kind of took a look. There were two items that we the reason why we pulled the two items that we wanted to take off of this particular list. One was the fireworks because of SP 180 and the other one is the failure
to maintain property. We thought it was just too broad. It made more sense to be more specific. So, we are recommending adoption of exhibit A as presented to you minus failure to maintain property and minus prohibited discharge of fireworks. Okay. The
uh I'm I'm all for that. However, I I think there might be some way because we are pursuing the fireworks issue legislatively. It takes longer. Um I think there might be some way to leave it on the fee schedule
because there's two classes of fireworks as Mr. Book has pointed out to us repeatedly, right? There's the legal kind of fireworks and then there's the illegal kind of the fireworks and the illegal kind are the ones that are really egregious. So perhaps we can
leave that in but with it more uh specified towards uh you know fireworks that are not the citations are only for municipal ordinance violations not for violations of state law violations of
state law be handled by the sheriff's department in a different manner. So until you have a fireworks or place, you don't want to have All right, then just pull it. That's fine. The good thing about adopt by resolution is that that
it can be amended by resolution. So if and when we get to that point where you've got the ordinance in place, you can have a companion resolution or a subsequent resolution. Okay. Thank you, Paul. Oh, sorry that answered my question. Yeah, it was like we can amend
it very easily without multiple Yeah. Gotcha. Lisa, so I went back to I believe this was discussed in December right around resolution
202489 and there were nine items on that list and now we have 14 items on the list. And it's my understanding that the citations are really for kind of oneoffs like things like noise and noise isn't even on this one
anymore. Um and and so I just I questioned what changed from December because I know this got pulled for discussion or further development and then how does that affect moving forward
with violations versus citations? No, this doesn't impact violations at all. Got it. So you still have the right to go in front of the special magistrate under the regular code enforcement process. This is an alternative in addition. Got
it. To be able to use it. So if there's something not on here, as Jeff has said, we can always add it on later if that's what you want to do. I really took a look and discussed it with Deanna who we talked about what violations really lended themselves towards a citation
because, you know, citation is more an immediate type of violation um versus being the regular code. And so we kind of left it at this, but it's a work in progress. I'm going to be honest with you, you know, we may come back to you and say, "Look, we've had all these other problems. We need to put that in here." You know, for example, he said,
"What was the change? The RVs are in here." You didn't have an ordinance wasn't effective until October of 2024. So, we put that in there. So, there are some of those changes, Lisa. So, I don't want you to think that this is the beall endall. Um, but really from an infor implementation, which we've talked about
in other circumstances, we felt these were the easiest to implement. The RVs on this one. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. No, it wasn't on the pre. It's right here. Print it out. It's on this one. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Standing corrected, but like we we added on
something like work after stop work order. We've had enough people who haven't paid attention when we did a stop work order and trees, you know, when trees are being taken down. You know, there's certain things that Yeah, absolutely. You want to be able to go and slap them right away and right away for sure. So, but anyway, and then I
know like in the right of way, you've got the right ofway on here and swailes and maybe swailes are part of somebody's property, you know, cuz like this drainage swale is are we only talking about on lettered roads? I guess my
question is is if you got somebody parking there, we're not giving them a parking ticket. We can only site the land owner, right? No. When you're on the right ofway, the citation allows you to actually sight the owner of the vehicle. Okay. But that what if it's a
swale on a property? It does. It's the vehicle. It's the vehicle that's not allowed and that's what you site. Glenn, can you weigh in on that? Because I think I heard otherwise. Again, the the civil citation process again is something that is an
alternative. And if you're um you know trying to get quick compliance or a quick fine like a noise ordinance violation, you use it. If you're trying to get a daily fine, you're going to use your normal process. If there's a
vehicle on a swale, um you know, the question is, is that vehicle owned by the property owner or is the property owner responsible for that? and the property owner be cited under traditional code enforcement or are you going to uh site the driver of that vehicle? And and I'm going to defer to
Karen as to how she'd want to handle something like that. So you're saying we do have the the code enforcement does have the legal authority to site a the driver of a car only only with the the civil citation. And you have to realize to collect that
money is much more difficult than trying to collect from the property owner. You know, unless the town's going to wind up going to court and filing a lawsuit against that person, the whole idea of code enforcement is generally based on you're leaning the property and eventually you recover when the property
is sold if people don't voluntarily pay. When you give a civil citation to a person to collect that is very difficult. Okay. I just wanted clarification. So, it's you can do the vehicle owner driver.
The perfect example I have is that there was a house around the corner from me that was recently developed out and they, you know, parked like the trucks that were bringing in all the stuff and the guys who were working there parked
halfway on there and blocked half of F road and they did that. You know, the first day I was like, eh, okay. you know, they're bringing in something. Let them go. Well, you know, a week and a half later and multiple calls from my neighbors saying, "This is ridiculous."
You know, there really wasn't anything we could do about it. Actually, you know, I think public works went out and talked I think Craig went out and talked to him and said, "Hey, you can't do that." But as soon as Craig left, they went back and did it again. So, in in a in a case like that, Craig or the code
officer could have gone out and given him the civilite citation. Would it have stopped them? Maybe, maybe not. Would we have won in court? Maybe, maybe not. But at least it puts like some teeth, you know what I mean? Like, hey, here's this piece of paper, you know, saying that
you have to I wasn't certain. Yeah. Thank you. Um Paul, were you next or was Phyllis next? I was I um Oh, on the just c out of curiosity on the noise ordinance thing. So, if noise
was on this list, right? Does the code enforce code and compliance officer have to be certified to use the decibel reading tool? So if we are not certified, we cannot site. Correct. So and that's training that costs money
etc. Okay. Just thank you. Yeah. What's that? And you got to buy them. Well, we had what you had a question. Um, so every time we want to add to this list, it needs to come to council.
Correct. So this is basically we're just starting out. So we're going to start out Craig's going to be out there and go aren't. It's not on the list. So Craig's going to start and code is going to start making a list. So every council
member at meeting you guys will be like, "Hey, you need to add this on." Okay? because this is a perfect correct and this is starting from scratch so obvious. Okay. Um public comment or anything. Do we have any public comment
on this item? No. Make your motion. I'm going to make a motion to pass ordinance 2024-17. Second. All in favor? I opposed. Opposed. Passes four to one. Okay. We're
going to take a literally a five minute. That's not the right ordinance. Wait, it's the resolution 202542. Oh, shall we try that again? Yeah, she said 14. It's 42. Now, she said the ordinance number, not
the res. Wait, where's the number? Number 11. Number 11. Right. I'm on number 11. Go to page 986. 2025- Good catch, Lisa. Good catch. Jeff and I are on it. That's it. Yeah. Thank you, Lisa. Yeah. Okay.
Make a motion to approve 2025-42. Okay. Do I have a second? Second. Seconded by Paul. All in favor? Opposed? Opposed. Okay. Passes for We have a Wasn't that an amendment to the emot one sec? One sec. That was an
amendment to her a previous motion, not a new motion. Correct. Had to be a new motion. Had to be a new motion. had. So, so since it was referenced wrong, it just cancels itself out. I'm just making sure I understand the process. Thank you. She made withdrawal. Okay. Okay. Can we now have a potty break? Yes.
Pause for the call. Literally five minutes, guys, though. It's after 9. We want to try to go home tonight. It's not because I got this today. Sorry about all that. My first every once in a while. number 18. Um, I believe all of council
is in possession of a email sent uh today at 12:59 by the town manager requesting that we um remove this item from the agenda. Um and further requesting that if we are
in fact wanting to keep the item on the agenda that the staff and the town manager be given time to um provide rebuttals for the inaccuracies on this list. So uh can we
have some discussion on how some consensus on how the council feels about this request by the town manager? I'm happy to make a motion to remove it. Paul I you know I think in I don't know when we need to discuss it whatever I think
they ought to have a ought to have time to answer you know maybe the answers can be given you know in writing I don't know I you know you know I mean not understand well one
the request is the request is to remove it and allow them time to answer to the list correct uh right you just well I don't think staff has already answered all these questions already it's already out there for us
it's in our charter it's in our code of ethics so I think to ask staff to spend staff time when maybe they could be working on the next agenda so it gets out on time perhaps that would be the way to go I I vote I make a motion to
remove it and to have staff address it come back or to not have staff aggressive just to remove it and have it disappear. Everything is in the code of ethics. Everything's in the charter. Okay. So, your motion is just to remove it and not bring it back. I I have a
comment. Correct. Okay. Um this was requested because uh Phyllis at the last meeting when I when I brought up the list, she just asked me for my research. I didn't intend for this to become an agenda item. So, it was a question of my
research and I was just providing that and I had asked it actually to be put under my council comments just because it was asked and I didn't want to think that my research didn't exist. So, so we have a motion to remove this
from the agenda. Do I have a second? Second. All in favor? I oppose. Passes five to zero. Okay, moving on to item number 19. Mr.
Tivia on this one. Um, yes, sir. Well, the town had requested that we have an agenda item to discuss our agreement with the town and announce legal fees, which I provided. Uh, obviously, if any questions about it, I think it's pretty
self-explanatory. um your fees are, as you can see, much higher than um other cities that we represent and we can certainly discuss that. Um but I think the uh more
significant issue is that it's been a pleasure to represent the town these past few years. Um but at this point, we're going to be providing you with the required 30 days notice that we'll be resigning as the town attorney. Uh we're certainly willing to continue to serve
for a period of time necessary for you to uh determine the course you want to take to uh obtain a a new town attorney. Whether it's u going inhouse, whether it's uh seeking proposals, but we will continue to
represent the town for as long as it takes for you to uh decide on the process that you want to uh engage in. Obviously, we'll also be willing to remain uh if you'd like available to provide uh any transition services to uh
the new town attorney. Okay. Any questions? Anybody? Okay. Um I guess my question Okay. is because I had one. I'll let you go. But you go right ahead. No. Um, you might ask this.
So, what um what I'd like us to consider, it's actually ironic that it was just about this time last year. Um, and I'd like your input on this, Mr. Torcivia. It was about this time last year that I brought up the possibility of going in-house um
for legal. Please don't shake your head at me from the audience. Um, I brought the possibility of going in-house legal counsel um and hiring a parillegal to help uh the in-house attorney. I I said then and I still think now that it will
save the town a significant amount on legal fees and use a larger firm like yours such as yours to do uh the large the heavy lifting, the large projects um and the heavy lifting. So, um, I'd like council to consider that, um, and, uh,
would like some consensus of whether we want to look to doing that, um, and seeing what that might look like and put it on our next agenda. Yes. Paul, how do you Yeah, I'd entertain anything. Okay. Anybody else have anything else? Okay. So, can we put that
model back together, Jeff, that we had started looking at last year and and have some kind of presentation at the next council meeting about that? Yeah, we can put together and how it would fit into the budget and moving forward and all of that. Yeah.
So far. Okay. Thank you for your service, Mr. Tivio. We've appreciated it. Um, and sorry that we have had some rough roads recently. Thanks, Len. We've had a lot of good times, too, and accomplished a lot.
That's true. We'll still be available to assist as necessary, and we'll continue to serve until you've uh made a transition. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, we're on to item number 21.
Yeah, that's the A- road and collecting canal project. We already talked about a road. Next. Oh, sorry, Jeff. I didn't mean to steal your thunder. Can be fast. I'm okay with fast. Motion approve. Where is the motion to
table? Is that one of the outer apers? Um, we didn't get a no. Thank you. Getting ready to begin the A-Rod project. First thing, most important thing about this update, please
speak to closer to it. The most important thing uh that we need direction on or confirmation on tonight is there are two properties uh that we need to replace their fences in order to get
them to agree to give us the easements that are necessary. Um, with respect to one of the fences, if we did not move the fence back, I think it would come within 18 in to 2 ft of the roadway. So,
we're concerned that that would be a potential hazard along collecting canal, perhaps less than than that. But, um, and on the other one, it's on the the corner. Uh, and in order to accommodate
the easement, their entire fence would have to be removed. We would like to be able to negotiate that with them, but we would need your direction that you would be willing to pay for those fences. The
cost estimate that we have for the two fences is in the range of $35,000, not each, but total. Um, so that's the that's the big update and ask that we need at this point to to move
forward and finalize the the easements that are needed to move forward with the project. And the project's still in budget with that extra expense. Yes, it is. Okay. We believe that it is, especially because one of the things that um Richard pointed out was that with the
work that we're doing on 161st, we anticipate being able to save somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 to $70,000 on uh the dirt we would otherwise have to purchase. So, we're going to be able to bring it
in under um budget with respect to the work that the staff is going to be doing. Um once we get that moving along, we'll be able to go out to bid and we'll see where the bids come in, but uh we
think we've got enough money to complete the project. Thank you, Phyllis. I'd love to see the 70 go into the general fund. How wide's the road? The pavement. The proposed The pavement. The pavement. How wide is
the pavement going to be? 20 feet. How wide is the swale going to be? Proposed to be 10 ft. And what's the extra seven feet for? Is there an additional feet or you only asking for 30? Um there's an
extra I think it's two feet, Richard. Three feet and it's So it's 33 feet. three foot from the toe of of the wind row. It's three feet from the toe of the wind row to the edge to the edge of the pavement. The pavement is approximately
a little over 20 ft and then 10 feet for the swale. Okay. So, my issue is that the nice thing about a-road is it's not a through street really. I don't think a lot of people take it as a cut through. I don't Oh, I know what's wrong with
this. I almost got into a head-on collision yesterday with somebody. So, you want to spend Okay, you want to replace fencing that if we made the road that if we made it not as wide, maybe we wouldn't have to replace that fencing.
No, no. No, it's not correct. You have to replace the fence. That's with respect to those fences. Um, doesn't matter whe the swale is 5T or 10T or two feet. We're going to need to
uh remove them and the idea. So, I have a question. We paved the road with no drainage, which wasn't necessarily the right thing to do, but we also didn't have to pay for any fences. So, why are
we not just Why don't What is the reason for a swale? Can we put drains like we did on road? The the direction I was given by the council is they no longer wanted unsafe half-hazard crappy roads built in this
town like was built by the previous I get that the currently and we are actually talking about it today collecting canal road is beginning to fail. Other roads are beginning to fail. Yes. the m the
when roads are on top of the canal banks there's a theory in soil mechanics and you want me to explain it to you I can but theoretically the equal pressure down is also the equal pressure out because of our canal banks and the slopes the road is starting to with the
heavy trucks or any trucks for that matter um and so if you go down collecting canal and look at it closely you'll see that the lane closest to the canal is starting to slowly uh drift You can see it on F road. You can see it on a lot of the roads. Do we have to put
rip wrap on all the roads again? We're going to have to do something eventually, but going back to a-ro so you'll have the three-foot from the toe of the canal of the canal wind row to the edge of the pavement, which will allow for the soil to not compact
like it's doing everywhere else. The road width. And remember, we're going to put speed bumps in there. And I have to say that literally yesterday, I had to go over there, look at something, and almost got into a head-on collision with some jackass doing 60 miles an hour. Literally almost 60 miles an hour going the other direction on the canal bank
side and almost hit me head-on. Um, they fly down that road because there's no speed bumps. And like we were talking about yesterday, we are going when we build that road, we're going to have to put the same amount of speed bumps on A road that are on B road. Otherwise, you're still gonna take a road and go
flying down that road. Um, which is upsetting. I mean, if I lived on that road, I'd be livid. Um, because like I said, that's now the second or third time we've almost gotten into accidents. Well, I personally have almost gotten into accidents on that road because of drivers. This is why we really need that
Tallahassee money because this is part of our failing infrastructure. Okay. Thank you for the clar. Thank you for the clarification. Yeah. And then the swale is just, you know, if you bake the swale too deep, people can't mow it. And so that's what I was going to ask because when I was hearing about this
yesterday afternoon evening, I I I thought the road was stopping and the the road came within 3 ft of the fence. So we have a road, then we have a swale, and then the fence and then we have a fence. Correct. Okay. Not that I doubt
anybody. If we have a swale and then the fence, why in tarnation do we have to replace the fence? The way it was told to me yesterday, that's why I thought it was next to the road was it was within 2 ft of the road. And honestly, within two feet of the road, I unless it's a
liability issue for us, I'd leave it anyway because I can tell you if you move it 18 inches more off the road or you move it four feet, people are going to be pulling off of it regardless if you have two lanes, one and a half lane, whatever you have. You know what I'm saying? So, if we have a swale, why do we have to replace the fence?
Because we're putting catch basins in also, which we have to be able to access without jumping somebody. But you're telling me that you're you want to be able to have a sweat. Oh, well, that's But you No. Okay. So, you're saying then after after it's all said and done,
this is what you're going to have, right? Not currently. We're gonna put this and this and then the old fence is there but we're replacing the old fence in order to get the swale. That's what I wasn't understanding. That's what I'm trying to understand. Currently, if we did not put a swale and then and put
drainage in, which we have all agreed upon over the past four years that there should be drainage, whatever. So, two years straight. Two years. Well, even when we were sitting out there together, we agreed there needed to be Yeah, we
agreed a long time ago. So I'm just saying so so that's the finished design and currently right now you would have road and then and no drainage. Okay, I I get you now. Thank you Lisa. On these properties I don't know what
the current road width is. Are we creating documentation that the portion that it will become road is a different agreement than the portion that will become drainage if they wanted to. If the residents want to that we're not most most residents
have not asked for that. We have gone over that often with them but they haven't asked for it. Are we documenting that they understand that? That's Yes. Okay. Just making sure because we've had that brought up many times. Yes, we have. Yeah. Public comment. Miciano.
Joe Siciliano 1530B Road. the survivor of the pavement project that is now the superighway that gets used daily. You want to talk about one time getting almost hit head on. Listen, I stood
before the council would I I'm sorry, however many years ago it was when that road got paved and um begged them not to put in which is now a 22 foot road. A semitr needs eight feet. That's
at 8 ft. So, let's give them a 16ft road. You don't need 10 foot for a swale. You don't cuz mine's No, mine's 2 feet that you guys put in and it works perfectly fine with the catch basin. Engineered. It's engineered as well
because it was engineered by Echar. Mhm. So, um I'm not saying the guy you don't have to move the guy's fence or maybe you do, maybe you don't. And if you do, in order to do the work with a 16 ft paved area, I mean, I I get that that
maybe there needs to be more dirt next to the canal to keep from what's happening happening, but the rest of it, they don't need you don't need 20 ft of pavement and you certainly don't need 10ft of swip because B- road works perfectly fine. Is B- road failing?
South B Road. Yes, South B South B Road is failing where the road I'm going to just correct you on that one. It may be failing, but it's where the road moves because as the canal was being maintained, it was maintained only
from one side, which shifted the road further to the east. Then the road had to be paved around the existing telephone poles and where it goes out into the towards the canal is exactly where it's paving where it's failing where it bends out towards closer to the
canal. Not on the not on the sides train, right? And it's not not where there's a sufficient amount of swell. Exactly. Right. Why does the road need to be 20? Because that's what a safe road is. We want safe roads in this town. Okay. I
get I'm not paving 18 I'm not paving 16 foot road. Richard Richard I get what you're saying but I can't I guess my point is you can't just say cuz it's a safe road. Yes. A 30 foot wide two-lane road is a safe road. I agree with you. The wider you can make it the better.
The more shoulder the less apt you are to come off the road. Stuff like that. But I think maybe, you know, yes, 18 foot, you got two tractor trailers side by side and everybody's going in a straight perfect little line. Absolutely. It'll work. Mirrors. I
I'm just saying problem if they don't. They're not supposed to pull. It's going to slow. We're not an FB. Okay. I I I get what you're saying about they're not supposed to pull over and we're trying to create the perfect deal, right? But the reality is in a lot of parts of our town, you we should still have up the
signs that you need to, you know, sign. Yeah. Rightway sign because I saw somebody almost Well, actually, your orange motor had to slow down the other day because a a gray F-150 was coming by it so fast going westbound on collecting right in front
of my house. I thought that, you know, so and it's got float tires so it might actually survive. But so I I don't know. I I guess my I guess my point is if you could give a little detail, maybe folks will understand why you're wanting to make it 20 foot wide,
you know, maybe it might help. Well, I I think the question tonight is moving the is to to move the fence or not to to pay to move the fence or not to pay to move the fence because I think that regardless of even if okay if we say we
want it 18 ft if we decide that and we want it 18 ft and I know you say you're not building it but we're the council and we get to say so if we say it's 18 ft it's 18 ft. Um, but that's perhaps another issue to discuss. But tonight, I
think in preparation, the fences need to move back. Is it my understanding that that's a first step in the process or one of the first steps is to move these two people's fences back. Is that And it's two properties there. Two out of the 20 or so properties. Okay. And that that's the first step. So let's address
that issue and then you can bring back perhaps to the next meeting if I have some consensus on this why you feel it strongly needs to be 20 ft and maybe some other council members who don't agree with that can bring back why they feel it would be sufficient to be less wide I want to ask but let's address the
issue at hand tonight which is the fence what kind of fence is it a new one is it like for like replacement if that change One is a 4ft chain link fence and another one is a um horse fence. It is a
fence with four rail fence. Yes, it's a 2x4 no climb with the three rail on it. Oh, so it is a wire fence. No climb is a wire fence. So, um and how many bids did we get for the fence or are we using the Gomez people? Uh the the um chain link
one is the Gomez and the other one we are getting bids on right now. Okay. We received one and I have two other contractors coming 39. How much is it? So between the two of them right now numbers $35,000
[Music] there's what is it 600? Yeah the one is 600 ft because it's I was going to say how long runs long ways I'm not short. My understanding is the one is the whole gate structure and thing that needs to be moved and everything not just a
simple putting up a fence gate structure a little bit more significant than that and it's someone who's been here for a long time. Um and can I have a motion to Well, I want to ask one more question. You don't just use Gomez, you use Martin Fence as well. Did you get an estimate
for them also for the chain link? So the chain link automatically Martin would be more expensive because they are a higher bidder on the contract. They would cost more. Okay. Now, can I have a motion to approve or not approve? Motion to approve. Second.
Okay. All in favor? I I Okay. Passes five to zero. We now have a discussion of the Rural Vista guidelines. But I guess that's probably you Karen. No, that's Jeff. But I just want to caution us before we discuss the rural Vista
guidelines that that SB 180 comes into play for at least some of these. I realize these are standards that we have asked for people to adhere to, but they have never been codified in part of our codes. So some of them are going to be more restrictive than what we already
allow. So, we need to be we need to tread very lightly right here um and not get too awful excited about what the outcome of any votes or anything are. Well, and this is just a discussion. We're not voting on this tonight. So, we Yeah. Not I just don't want to take a
lot of time and box ourselves into a corner for something that they would not be able to do. Paul, do you want to lead this discussion? You were the chairman. Um that was that. Do you really want me to call it three under the bus? That was like six months ago, buddy.
You asked for it. Um I know I got to be careful what I asked for. Um I'm going to try to go pretty quickly. Uh those behind you anyway. She'll correct you if you're wrong. I know. And and not uh not go through just line by line. What I do
point out in the in the memorandum is that rural vista guidelines I think are mentioned four times in our uh code and twice in the comp plan. Um we act like there
there were real things but they were never formally adopted by uh the council. One one of the areas that they um are mentioned has to do with construction of parking areas and talks
about um the material and durability that are detailed in the rural vista guidelines. That is something that the committee did not take up. I think that's more appropriate in engineering standards when it comes to
the appropriate type of material um for uh a parking area. You mean for the for the base for the whether it be asphalt, gravel, etc. Right. Yeah. That just in there that's something we didn't
discuss because it wasn't re relevant to to what the committee's focus was on. The committee's focus was on um establishing guidelines that would improve the aesthetics of the community and and try to get back to the intent of
the original rural Vista guidelines. Um, I've attached copies of the original rural Vista guidelines and also um a document that uh Joseph Siliano brought up at our last meeting um which was not
an approved ordinance, but it had been considered as a part of an ordinance that was rejected having to do with the Okachobee overlay. But the the reason that that overlay district zoning district was rejected as far as I
understand did not have to do with those proposed architectural standards. There's a consistency I think although there's a different format but there's a basic consistency to to all of the the guidelines um that have been
produced. One of the major areas that the committee focused in on and one that is probably the most problematic under SB 180 is the idea
that our uh nonresidential um projects because the rural Vista guidelines would not apply to residential um projects. They would apply to uh commercial projects and institutional
um projects um and potentially governmental um projects was the idea that there should be more of a screening landscaping buffer between the roadway and the
beginning of the paved parking area. Uh the committee took a look at what has been existing um and is kind of personified by uh the Grovestown Center development.
And basically where they what they did at Grovestown Center is they established a 25 foot um burm or buffer area, landscape area before you got to the parking lot. In looking at that, the committee
suggested that that number should be doubled um with the idea that there would be an increase in in vegetation. um that will uh if developers came in, they would
suggest that that that's probably not in concert with SP 180 um because that does add additional burdens to to the property. The committee felt that it would make the projects better and
really set off the idea of it being rural to have more of a landscape screening buffer before you got into um the project. Uh but that's that's the biggest thing that I think would be
impacted by SP 180. the rest of the the building design and there's a there's a focus on materials um how the windows would be. Uh, one of the big things that the
committee wanted to get away from was that massive um, glass that you can see, especially um, in typical fast food restaurants, that they wanted to have a separation
um, and that windows should be vertically oriented, which means they are taller than they are wide. and they thought that that would help give us some of the look that was um needed. Um
they adopted for the most part similar uh guidelines with respect to breaking up uh long masses of of walls um and roof lines. Um and we can go into those
uh to the extent that you all have questions on it. One of the the big questions that I have and what we need direction on with respect to these guidelines is whether you want the guidelines themselves to be
adopted as a part of an ordinance and so that the the guidelines would be in the code. um versus an ordinance that authorized the adoption of the the guidelines by
resolution similar to the situation that uh we talked about with respect to citations so that that could be amended in an easier less expensive fashion. Um
and the reason I would suggest that we do it uh through an authorizing resolution unless somebody um uh I our legal department says there and says you know these guidelines are already mentioned so many times I think we can
adopt it by by resolution itself. Um, but I think the safest way is to have a an ordinance that authorizes the adoption of these guidelines by resolution and then adopt them by resolution. Um, and the reason for that
is because like everything else, they're always a work in in progress. Um, and as you go through the development process and you see what's out there, you might go, "Well, we can amend this to give, um, what we truly
want out there." So, uh, can I give Glenn an opportunity to weigh in on that before we ask questions? Is are are you done? Yes. Okay. Glenn, can you weigh in on what, uh, Jeff just said before we uh, ask our questions? I'm sorry, I
missed the last part. Jeff, what was the last part that you said? The I think the issue that we want you to weigh in on is whether or not um we should adopt an ordinance that fully incorporates the
guidelines or simply adopt an ordinance that uh sets forth the authorization for the council to adopt these guidelines by resolution. My thought process was that if we have
the ordinance authorizing them to be adopted by resolution, that gives us more flexibility. These are mainly aesthetic guides. And I um I think of them along the same lines that somebody would uh adopt a engineering standards
or something along those lines. I guess um you can I would agree with Jeff. You could do it either way. You could adopt an ordinance and then anytime you want to amend the ordinance, it's the two readings. Uh or you can adopt an ordinance that delegates it to yourselves to do a resolution which is
only one meeting. So what you're really doing is you're saving a month basically to adopt a resolution. The question is, do you would you prefer having that formality of two readings and two chances for public comment or would you rather have it something that's you can
be done a little more quickly yet generally a month sooner? Um, do you have a question there, Mr. Coleman, or a comment? Yeah. Um, so as Jeff just said, we kind of when we were look doing this, we thought of it as more of like the code because
you have the code sections, etc. And this was referred to it as as the standard, right? Because you a lot of codes, you know, when you're reading the code, it refers to a standard um whether it be ANC or whoever. Um my my question is so so it's whether it's a two a two a
two reading vote a vote or in a single reading we can do it and then so since this is part of the ULDC currently it's a 4-1 vote. Correct. It's a super majority. Super super majority. Yes. I mean the other the other point would be that you know an ordinance is easily
searchable. You know anybody can go online to MUN code and find an ordinance. The resolutions might be a little more difficult for people to find find that every time you've updated it. So it's almost a question of ease of use for the general public to find. Well you you would you would put the guidelines
in your on your website in the you know planning section so everybody would have them available. Yeah. even plus you would have your your ULDC and at the end it' be like an appendix with a standard that's referenced. So I mean I think you'd be able to find it but I still think that you know you still might want
to have this as a like a two reading. I I know we're looking for ways to like streamline things but this is something that you know everybody is super passionate about supermajority. They're super passionate about not being able to change nothing. So, you know, if there really is going to be a change to, you
know, I I realize that if you're changing shalls to shoods or whatever is pretty inconsequential as you think to business, but most people might, oh, you're changing the rule of Vista guidelines. We just clified it. You know, there's southern law. Yes. Exactly. So, I I you know, I I would say
moving forward, my my vote on a consensus would be to move forward toward the ordinance where it's a it's a two-reading scenario. give people an opportunity to come and state you know speak their mind put the guidelines themselves in the ordinance.
Yeah we can do that. Lisa had a comment. So yes I agree but the ordinance to adopt the resolution would still take two readings and then a vote for the resolution. So not really technically saving time. Right. The resolution.
Yeah. that. So if we wanted to make any changes in the future and then we would have to have two votes. If we want to take make changes to the resolution, two readings, thank you. But if we want to make changes to a resolution, it's just one let's make the changes to this
resolution. Yeah. Now you Okay. But the there's an ordinance required to adopt it by resolution. Correct. That still would take two readings to get to that initially. Yes. Well, yeah. It would take two readings to get to that. But once the resolution is done, it only
takes one, right? Yeah. For that future and future. Yeah, that's that's what I'm I'm say out out the future. I say we keep it at two. Yeah. We have any public comments on this, Mr. Siliano?
Madam Chair, this herself. Joe, that's only because Paul left. Long time coming. Joe Siciliano 1530 B Road. I Jeeoff, I'm I'm I'm sorry. I just want to um clarify something. I thought we did touch briefly on pavement and we'd
spoke specifically about having asking if we could get the concrete as opposed to pavement making parking lots move towards the white that reduces um the temperature. there was discussion of
that issue but um I don't think the committee adopted that because there there were the practical realities and costs involved I think big issue and and then am I understanding that your concern here you're treading lightly is because if if we codify anything whether
it be one reading or two readings um with this SBA thing going on that those will not be enforceable because of the anything that's more restrictive than what we already have challengeable. Okay. So, it's it's just potential
litigation. So, so it's just I mean like if we codify if we adopt something now that is more restrictive, right? And this that bill passes then anybody any developer anybody can
just challenge us on it and win. Okay. 2027. So, but could we do, for example, where we're asking for a as long as it's not more restrictive? Well, we're asking for a large for a a thicker burn um setback, a bigger setback, that's more
restrictive. I understand that. But the I think the rest I think the rest of the guidelines we could have a good argument that they are already existing. not more restrictive standard and you had to community
standard lines and we're doing is just clarifying them and making it easier. The other thing that you have to understand is um developers don't want to sue you to get
what they want. They want a project to move forward. Um and so it is not unusual for developers when requested to go
above and beyond exactly what's set forth in the um the the standards so that they can get approval of a project because approval of a project um to to meet
these standards is probably more coste effective for them than to say by gosh I'm just going to take you to court and two three years from now you're going to regret this. Correct. But I mean they also that doesn't stop them from applying for a variance and then we deny
the variance based on what we have and they go well you didn't enact this until 2025 and and the the the uh and the bill's back dated to 2024th. I'm not sorry, Joe. I'm not because I
I'm not disagreeing with I mean, listen, I agree. I don't you know, but the pro the problem is that bill is retroactive to 24. Correct. Correct. Yeah. So, it's retroactive to 24. So, even if we pass it today, you know, so I mean, yeah, you roll the dice or they could come and say, "Hey, listen. We see you did this."
And they could act. I mean, it's a possibility. My biggest thing about going ahead and passing it is we've already put the time and the money and effort to this. I caution about the bill is let's be cautious moving forward and spending any more legal fees. But this one's this one's dog's already been
hunted. You know what I mean? We've already we've already gone. my thought. Now you can have your comment back down because what I was wondering is then were you asking that we pull these more restrictive things like this bigger BM and then put it back
in after the two years is up or can we just put it in and hope they don't mind. Right. Okay. That's where I wanted to go. I'm glad you guys worked that out without me. Okay. Thank you. My whole my whole reason again for bringing it up is
that I want to be cautious about spending any more legal fees or doing any more stuff on things that we could be told next month. Sorry, you can't do that. This one's already been vetted to the lawyer, back from the lawyer, to the uldc, back to council, to the to the
Royal Vista, right? Indulgence. Yes, we already set a precedent with that buffer because we used it at Groves Town Center. Okay. No, it's going to be twice that size. Well, okay. But my point is we've already made a precedent but the buffer buffers. So so issue. So let's
I'm not let's go go ahead and we I believe that the consensus let me see if this is a consensus everybody. The consensus is to go for choice A where it requires two readings because bring back for first reading. Bring it back for first reading in July. Is that consensus
everyone? Elijah. Okay. Anybody not on board with that? Great. We're on to item number 22. Hey Joe, did you hear that? And there's just one more thing. We're on to item number 22A, which is to
set the paddock project meeting. And I just want to be clear to the members of the public, anybody can bring any project in front of us. This will be the first time that this project has come up for us, I guess, presumably for a vote. So um it has already been to several of
our committees. They have already given their input and the project is choosing it to bring it forward to the full council. So this is the time where I know I would certainly appreciate hearing from people about how they feel about the project. I know I've already heard from a lot of you um and a lot of
you are have spoken a lot about it, but I would appreciate emails, texts, whatever um to let me know how you feel about this project prior to the meeting date that we're being asked to set up. Um may I ask Glenn a question? You may ask Glenn a question. Glenn,
yes. Oh, can I vote on this? No. Okay, I'm going to remove myself from the room and recuse myself for this item. Okay, thank you. Because I am the real estate agent for the project and the next door neighbor. Thank you. Paul,
did you have a question before we Yeah, I just I I on any project. I mean, it's just he's the next correct. I'm her neighbor. So, I'm her neighbor and she's the neighbor. Anyway, um no, you know, just clarification moving forward, you
know, because I'm going to be here for how many years. Um you unless you remove me or something, America, because I'm so bad. Um anyway, um coffee. Yeah. Yeah. No more coffee. Um so, so just just point of clarification. So, when
something doesn't make it past PZ and B, the applicant can still pony up the money and have a meeting in front of council. Correct. That is correct. I mean I I just they are an advisory board just so I mean yeah if if you
recall I've had multiple conversations with folks and you know I'm I'm about education right? So I'm trying to listen and it's a it's a recovery cost type of scenario too at some points right they're not always pwning up ahead of time. It's a it's a you know balance due scenario. So no matter the project, you
know, you come apply for an MUD, a PUD, you know, XYZ, an XYZ. Yeah. When you get the planning process, you know, you you kind of it's kind of like when you apply for a permit, you put down a deposit, it goes through the review
process, and then you got a bill at the end that you got to pay the balance of, right, based on value, etc., etc. Impact visas. Anyway, so all right. I just want to clarify that. So, thanks. Okay. So, we're looking to set a date.
Karen, I believe this is your item. Yes, it is. So, um they are seeking a date of either June 25th or June 26th, which is not a normal meeting date. So, that's why we're before you.
The the rationale so you know is that the next if you were to have a second meeting, it typically would be June 17th. But unfortunately the consultant that has been the representative for the town is unavailable on that date. So
that would put her this petition then on your first meeting in July. And I think part of the idea is they didn't want to wait till then. Um because the idea actually in the future is to try to make a second meeting in the month just for
these private petitions because our expectation is you're going to have an audience. and you see how long the meetings are. Now imagine if you have four hours just on this one petition. So the idea is to kind of do a separate meeting on the private petitions or the
planning petitions so that you don't you can do your regular operational stuff and then have this in a different meeting night. So realistically it would even go to the July meeting July like 17th meeting and they don't want to wait a whole month in order to be heard. But
that is this council's choice. There is no requirement that you have to give another date. You can dictate whatever date you feel is necessary, but they have asked for consideration to move it up to either the June 25th or June 26th
date if the council so desires. Paul, you have an opinion on this? Yeah. So, when you go before PZ&B, and I know they're advisory, right? But but when you go before PZ&B, it has to be posted X amount of days prior to the meeting. Correct. Correct. Same has to pertain to
us, correct? It's it's a land use change is what we're going for, right? Whether four petitions, it's four petitions for land use change. Da da da. So, what is the the statutory requirement for the amount of days prior to because they've already extinguished the other one,
right? Because it went to PCB. The clock's three starts. Correct. That is correct. 10 days is the is the furthest that they need. That was the third, right? But that's one of the reasons we need to know. Yeah. No,
I'm okay with the 25th. I'm not okay with the 26. I don't know how anybody else feels. Does everybody have their calendars? June the 25th. I'm not inclined to move it where the public isn't used to seeing things being presented. Um I I would without looking
at my calendar. Weeks not two and a half weeks notice. Even with two and a half weeks notice. Uhhuh. And that's a Wednesday or a Thursday. That's a Wednesday night, the 25th. I just assume get it in and out. I'm
looking at it right here. Okay. Y mayor, I would not be available on the 25th. I'm sorry. I'm not available on June 25th. And I'm not available on the 26th. So that pretty much wipes out both those dates, right?
So, so it looks like it's regular. You could do it on the your regular July meeting. I don't What date is that? I like the philosophy of not putting something. Yeah. I mean, what else do we already have on that agenda, Franc? It's pretty heavy. It's a packer. Yeah.
They're all thousand pages. I mean, you'll be you'll be setting trim. We'll be having some budget. I would say that if they could with Lisa's in mind if if they can do the 17th or the 24th. Is everybody okay with I'm out of town the 17th. Okay. If they June the
24th I'm in town the 24th. Okay. If they can do the 24th which is a Tuesday night which is a regular Tuesday night. That fits in with Lisa's philosophy. Gives them three weeks notice and we can all do it. I don't think they were available. They weren't available. Yeah. Oh well. That's why they wanted the 25th
or the 26th. Yeah. Not not going to happen. We look um the second what's the July? It's the July 15th. July 15th is the third Tuesday of the month. Yeah. Is
that fourth of July 1st? Yeah. July 15th. Is everybody okay with that for the Yep. As of meeting. Okay. So, we're moving it. It's at a six o'clock guys. Yeah. six o'clock with no
public comment. Let's make sure we advertise it. I mean with no uh not no public no public workshop in front of it. Okay. Let's make sure that correctly. July 15th as of this moment. Well, you're not allowed to put it. You just put it on your calendar. It's
there. You're locked in. You're locked in. Look how many calendars you got. Locked in that you carry around three things. Come on. I I I have enough trouble managing one for the
Okay, so we're ready for staff comments. Town manager. We're ready. Yes. Sorry. Uh oh. Phyllis, you can come back to us. Town manager, no comments.
No comments. Thanks for a great meeting. Thank you. Town attorney, any comments? No comments. Oh my gosh. Town clerk. Oh, no. Public works director, I'm sorry, I almost skipped you. No comments. Town clerk, no
report. No report. Okay. Council member Manilia going last. It's going last. Council member El Rey. Oh, let me get my glasses. So, I understand uh we put cameras here in
town hall recently. Looks like it's painted. Was that budgeted? I think it's been planned for quite a while to put the security cameras. Okay. Um years ago, going back in the
wayback machine, uh council had a consensus to put cameras and GPS on all the town equipment. Is there any is it done? We have We have that. Okay. Because I wasn't sure that ever got done. A GPS. There's GPS and
cameras. There's GPS in all the equipment and vehicles and there are cameras in all the vehicles and we are putting them in the greater the K Cabota and the um Aspen so that way next time somebody decides to jump on our equipment we'll
have it on video. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Um Oh do you get his calorie count while he's there too? Right. So, uh, and I I would like to say
to the public comment earlier about taking 15 minutes, that was seven questions. It's probably a record for staff answering seven questions in 15 minutes. Just saying. And a lot of people publicly want an explanation for these things. So, I appreciate you indulging me. And um moving back to the
statement of moving forward, I didn't get Phyllis's input or Marges, but when I hear the term moving the town forward, and it it kind of says to me that we are not going to take into
account the way things um have been done that were done incorrectly. I want to make sure that the understanding is that you know like the magistrate% things like this do not get overlooked and and
again my my emphasis is as the council we are the executive board the only employee we touch um directly is the town manager and I want to see our town be the best it can possibly be and the
council do their job to the best of their ability as Well, so that that's really where I was going with that moving forward question earlier. So, thank you. Well, uh, sorry, do I have to turn my light on? It's my turn on turn my light
on. Still getting used to used to light. Um, now I'd like to see just just so we could take a look have a, you know, discussion about drainage, you know, um, was one of our discussion items and we can have a conversation about I think that should
be consensus to have that workshop. Yeah, we probably should, you know, but I mean just you know maybe show us the uh you know what what the the design is whatever exact explain how it's supposed to work in le of what we've been fed in
the past right um you know just that education piece yeah I just you know for that to be on the next agenda well a discuss it's a packer right that's what we're it's jam-packed I'd like to see it as a workshop if we can add a workshop
if we could do I mean we did opt in for a second meeting. So that would be the August second meeting except I believe that's budgeting is the August that's budgeting so we don't have a second meeting with your indulgence. Yes ma'am. A previous council did workshops on Monday afternoons for instance when
we did the comp plan we did pretty much every Monday afternoon from like 4 to 6 5 to 7. So we can do that if you wanted. I mean, I know I know nobody on the stage. Maybe maybe next time we can have
a discussion about how we can all think about it and have a discussion on how we want to look. Yeah. Maybe we can have some some workshop days that we can look at some stuff. Yeah. And we need a an opportunity where we can discuss it, right? So, you know, and and at your
point, I mean, you know, as I've said multiple times, hold on. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. roadway drain. Just the whole the whole the whole kitten kaboodleoodle. Yeah. Got up to talk on the mic, man. Hey,
um now this is a crazy thought. No. Um no, don't want to waste our time with that. com combination uh a combination meeting with recak on it. Yeah, that would be good. We could we could invite you to
the recak meeting and do the workshop on that. Uh yeah, I mean when's their next meeting schedule? [Laughter] Between four and five middle of June somewhere, right? Can you give Yeah. Can
you give us that date? Well, Greg, do we have to Do we have to advertise? Just wanted the recag meeting is already scheduled. We're talking. Yes, we would. We would have to ask lots of questions for just so I know.
Yes, we have to advertise it. But first of all, we have to make sure we're all available. Try to get a date and then we can talk about whether we have gonna advertise. June what? It's not going to be on June 19th. Your guys are off that day. That's Junth. You didn't adopt that this year? I
thought we made a They thought they made a holiday last year. Oh, no. That's right. That's right. They did. No, we have we have personal days if you want to take that off. Okay. So, it is on June 19th. Who's available on June 19th to do a joint? Back on the 18th. So,
well, let me ask a let me also ask a question of the people who will be most involved in preparing that. Are we going will we be able to make that presentation and get it ready uh in the next week?
Let me answer that for you for a moment. Yeah. Um here let's also let's be fair to Red Gak. Red Gak is deep into trails, right? Okay. So, I think we need to tell them ahead of time that, you know, we're
going to try to do in July. Okay. Yeah, that it's f I'm just looking for something where we can all like kind of get on the same see where we're going, etc. you know, for July. Do you know what their July meeting date is? Chance, it's probably it's it's probably the
third. It's third Thursday. Third Thursday. No. No. Are they Thursdays? Yeah. July is what? 24th 17th would be the third Thursday. It would be July 17th. Okay. So, anyone go to August 21st
or September? Okay. So, let's see if we can set it up for July 17th, then decide by the by next meeting. Well, no. July 1 meeting whether it's a go. Talk to them about it. See whether So, just kind of pencil it in, guys.
Red gag. What time is that meeting? Five o'clock. What was the one that we did the 15th? What's on the 15th? The paddock. So, we'll have two that week. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, Life goes on, guys. You're making all
the big money, Paul. Yeah, I know. Okay. Um, but Phyllis used to say, I can't even buy cable. Um, no. And I I'm I'm with I'm with you, Lisa. We've had multiple discussions, and you know me, I'm always the one that's uh accused of looking back too much. So, you know,
Yeah. But I think, you know, I think we're doing good things. I think we're moving forward. We're getting past some stuff. And I look forward to Great meeting the f the future. All right, Marge. Yeah. Um, question about the black pipes
on a road in the staging area. There seem to be fewer pipes left. Uh, we're installing them on 25th. Oh, okay. Bolsome and 25th. That's where they're getting installed. Hauling them away. Oh, ma'am.
Okay. Very good. All right. Um the other thing was I wanted to um also congratulate uh Anita. I had seen it in the uh the town crier as I read it. Nice article. Good picture. Thank you. That's my le that's my uh at the remember we
did the the head shot at the legislative session in Orlando. That that picture. See, it is a good picture. It makes me look young. My mom said it made me look like a little girl. I'm not sure that's the image I want to give off, but okay.
I used my uh one from that legislative thing uh to send to my family so they could see me with my new do. All right. They're used to me being very curly on the top and I I went straight. Okay, that's it. Okay, Phyllis, you're
up. All right. So, first of all, I want to say, do you know who your neighbor is? He's sitting right there. So, this is my neighbor. I was gonna say, do you want to answer that in his backyard? That's correct.
So, I would like I was very upset. The RV program was supposed to come with some protections for the neighbors, which was at least provide a driver's license who's going to be in the RV.
That has been taken away. So, my suggestion tonight is that we look into, and maybe you could talk about this with roaded trails, making all of our maintenance easements
greenways and parks. And that will limit the sex offenders. Because if we don't put something in place to make sure that we are protecting our children and
our neighbors from people that are already sex offenders, they will find us in Locksah Hatchee Gross. So the reason she's suggesting that for those of you are looking quizzically is that a sex offender cannot live within a certain distance from a park. So if we
create our trails as a linear park, if we dictate that our trails are a linear park, it basically prohibits them from being anywhere in town. I think this is really important, fellas. If you guys suggest want to keep the RVs, let's protect our each other. Okay, good
suggestion. Um I've asked the town to ask Palm Beach Sheriff's Office for a box of these. So, I'm sure you don't. It's been a long seven years. Okay. Phyllis has just sounded handed me
a letter which says, "Locks Groves town residents, landowners, council, and staff. It is with infinite sadness that I feel compelled today to present to the town of Lockach Groves my resignation of my post as seat one of town council.
my considerations of first of my family, friends, and constituents, my health and my livelihood. To my friends and constituents, I'm so proud to have had your confidence and support throughout my service on town council. I reflect also on my fellow
council members, past and present, and town staff over the past seven years. Together we have many struggles to build up this town and in the end we have accomplished many great things. To staff, I will always appreciate the
experience and knowledge I gained during my time working with you all. I know politics are divisive and polarizing by nature. However, as a council member, I've always strived to be fair and unbiased, taking positions to try and best serve the entire
town. To all, I want to say that I am troubled at the tone and timber of some subversive comments being made in chambers and the malicious, slanderous commentary being spread outside of chambers. This hostile environment,
which culminated an unwarranted physical and character attacks on me. At this time, I believe that my stepping down is the only next move I must make in order to continue my mission for a better Lockahuchi Groves. My singular goal has always been
to preserve this little town that I have lived in for 35 plus years. I have also been determined to protect the ideals of incorporation and its governance, an office and position I have served with honor and devotion.
However, at this juncture, I can say with much certitude, I feel I can be most effective and powerful to that end, not from the deis, but from the podium. Please accept my resignation effective June 4th, 2025 at 5:00 p.m.
Phyllis Manilia, Laha Grove Council member, seat one, town resident since 1989. Okay, that was a little curveball. Okay. Um, is there anything else you want to say? May we have a copy of the letter for the
records? Yes. Yeah, I want to um clean it up because I changed a few things. Can I give it Give her the clean copy so she has it for the record. And Okay, guys. So, what does that mean? Glenn, correct me if I'm wrong. That means that according to the charter, we
have 30 days to appoint a council member to fill Phyllis's seat until the next election in March and then that seat would come up again in March for a regular election. Am I correct? That is
correct. Um Okay. All right. Um the the only however is um this situation has occurred quite often in the last several years when form six was being discussed where
councils had less than the required number of folks and in general it while it'd be great if you can fill it within the 30 days if not there's really no legal penalty if you take a little more time to come up with a replacement. Yes.
Our charter says we have to do it within 30 days. Understood. We want to try to adhere to our charter, right? Um I know that in the past we've just kind of taken names from the audience. Whatever. What I was going to um suggest to you guys as I'm sitting
here thinking is that we had three people qualify for the last election so that we know they're already qualified. um that maybe we consider them and we probably have to call a special meeting to have this in place. Can we can we
vote on this on who the person would be at the beginning of the July 1st meeting and that person be immediately sworn in to office at the beginning of the meeting? Is that possible? You could. However, they wouldn't have any time to have studied the agenda. Oh,
that's right. Well, that makes sense. Um okay, guys. It looks like we do have to have a special meeting this month. All right, pick a date. Sorry. They have to be in pl they have to be in place in 30 days or they have to be selected in 30 days. In 30 days, we want to try to get
somebody else on the days before July 1st. So, right. Lisa, when you leave the beginning of the red gap meeting, but that's uh that's July 17th. June Oh, sorry, my bad. That's July 17. When are you leaving town, Lisa? I leave
Thursday, come back Wednesday. I'm sorry. Thursday Thursday the 12th to the 18th. Yes. Uh was everybody available on the night of Junth to just come in and do do that?
Can we do that? Just It was available. Yes. Can we do that at five o'clock, guys? Do we have staff for that? Well, break is first, right? Yeah, we have. Oh, Jun. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Right. Doing it next Tuesday. What's next Tuesday? Nothing. Next
Tuesday, we have Zooms with with I don't think we have to publicly notice this. It's not I mean, it's it's a special we just advertised as a special meeting. Okay. Um Well, I don't know. I have a 2:30 Zoom with somebody. I think for the conservation the No, that's the
conservation is it's a legal meeting. It's a legal meeting about B Road that afternoon. that afternoon. Mine's at 2:30. What time's yours? Mine's at 2. What time's yours? Do you have one? Oh, that one. Yeah, that's on the 10th. Do I
get to vote? No. I think God Tuesday the what? The 10th. 10th. Okay. Since we're having all these legal zoo, I'm just trying to figure out who's is the latest and I think the latest they went was like 4:30. Yeah, I think that's
probably mine, right? Do we want to try to do it at 5:00 on the 10th? Does that interfere with Reag? No, Reag's on the 19th. But you keep bringing it up, too. Okay. So, 5:00 special meeting is
uh I'm going to suggest that um that staff contact the three people who qualified. Okay. Well, I want to make sure that we're clear for the record because there's a difference between those who qualified versus those
who chose to run for office. Those who qualified so that we know that people are qualified. Okay. Because remember there were qualified because remember that there were those that resigned from running but they were still qualified. So I just want to make sure that we're clear. Okay. I was just going to say just pick how many qualified? Three,
four, five. How many? Four. There was four. Okay. So have the have the ones that qualified. Well, I'll reach out to them, see if they're interested, and then they would be willing to serve and then and then we could make a decision and then if anybody has any other names to add to
the list, we can certainly do that as well. Yeah, because you were appointed, right? That doesn't require qualification. And then I had to go through a process. Yes, I did. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Easier to do. I was already qualified, but yes. No, I had to go through I couldn't sit until
the next Yeah, it cuts a step out if they're already qualif Yeah. They qualified. So, and but we have to make sure that the people that are qualified are willing to serve. So, can you reach out to them, Val, before the 10th and see whether they were willing to serve and then we will consider them. Can we
suggest that those who want to throw their name in also contact Valerie to check that box also? Sure. Should there be people that anybody else had insane? I would ask that if that's the case that that you know you let me know by Friday
because I also have to do my due diligence and that's kind of hard to do the day of the meeting. Okay. Thank you. All right. Perfect. Five o'clock. Well, that's kind of a this is kind of a
historic moment, Phyllis. Um, this is a historic moment. Understood. And do it as a council member. Understood. Um, well, what I'd like to say is I really thought this was going to be
a humdinger of a meeting and it wound up being one, but not because we didn't all work really well together tonight. And I just want to say that I'm super proud of to be sitting up here with everybody tonight. I think we did a great job um
being respectful, thoughtful about each other's comments and uh and inputs and uh just glad to be here with you guys working like Paul said towards a common
goal and a common future. Um and thank you staff once again. mayor very much. Thank you, Phyllis. And uh thank you, Phyllis, for your service, which has been above and beyond for a
really long time. It's going to feel really different up here. Yeah, it's gonna be Oh, I'll be out there. Okay. But I won't be able to nudge you. To knock you in the arm, I'll have to throw things at you out there. How's that?
I'll have three minutes. Choose wisely. Motion to adjurnn. Could I have a motion to adjure? Motion made by So, I'll second. Oh, I want second. Okay, go ahead. Second. Okay. All in favor? Thank you everybody.
Didn't get an extension. I get to talk.