be dreaming about these later I think nightmaring There's a song for that So I guess I'm vice chair right i mean still Yes So does that mean I call to order you can order and then we
can rearrange things depending on how you all and what's the specific wording for that i'd like to call us to order Thanks All right And the time is You couldn't help
yourself 611 Great Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands One nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all
Okay Do I have a motion to approve the minutes first we have to do the roll call Oh good How about instead shall we take roll call absolutely Committee member Joe Sisiano obviously here
Committee member Brian Zidowski is absent Yes Uh committee member Karen Plant here Committee member Robert Austin here Committee member Sarah Palmer here Town manager Amalia is not here at the moment Town clerk assistant
Sammy Brown is present Committee staff liaison Jeff Kirch project coordinator I'm here Karen Young Gardner community standards director here All righty Madam chair we have a quorum No Yay
Oh that's excellent Uh now should we approve the minutes there's no minutes to approve just the agenda Okay No Okay Do I have a motion to approve the agenda motion to approve it Second
Any discussion uh take a vote All in favor i I motion P Do I say that do you you can It's okay Motion passes unanimously 42 zero
Now we're on the first agenda item swearing in of newly appointed Unified Land Development Code Review Committee members In front of you you have your oaths of office And if you could stand up and raise your is it your right hand and repeat after me
all of us one at a time Well Jill's actually she's already on She She's not new I thought we Okay that's what I was told But that's okay So it would just be the new committee
members and the ones who are reassigned to a different council member I Your name do solemnly swear So swear or affirm that I will support or affirm that I will support protect protect and defend
the Constitution and defend the Constitution and government of the United States and government of the United States and the state of Florida and the state of Florida and the charter of the town of Lockache Groves and the charter of the town of Lockahhatche Groves that I am duly qualified to hold
office that I am duly qualified to hold office under the constitution of the state of Florida under the constitution of the state of Florida and the charter of the town of Locks Hatche Groves and the charter of the town of Lock Hatche Groves and that I will I will I will well and faithfully that I will well and
faithfully perform the duties of committee member upon which I'm about to enter perform the duties of committee member upon which I'm about to enter Congratulations And if you could just add your name and sign those and give those back to me that would be
great What is going to borrow my pen printing it there But you put your name at the top where the big dash is after I and then sign your name at the bottom Thank you so much
Thank you so much Is it working thank you Madam chair item number two Now on to item number two So the selection of the unified land development code review committee chairperson is up next Do we
have any uh nominations nominations I nominate chair Second All in favor i Okay looks like I'm the chairperson
That passes three to one Thank you guys Congratulations Thank you It's going to be interesting I assure you Okay Um item number three shall I move on or do I need to you go ahead Okay Um is the selection of
the land coc committee vice chair any nominations second All in favor i I that passes unanimously us on Okay So I guess now we jump into the meat of it which is the discussion and
review of sign code I'm going to sort of move this off to staff to figure out where we want to jump in Ex I mean it's just there's so many papers here Yeah What is your Let's let's walk through Yeah all the paperwork that you have you
were given an agenda packet um that I think went out last Tuesday Wednesday kind of time period um and in that agenda uh there was a memorandum um a cover memorandum and and it
included a letter from our town attorney uh and it also included a draft of their newly proposed sign code and also So um a sign code that they had
uh given us back in June of 2024 So I'm sorry Really quickly can you just tell us where you're starting from so we can all be on the same page number or Okay you're not I will I just want to make I just want to make sure we have all the the the paperwork first Gotcha
Um and everybody knows what I'm talking about So that was in the original agenda package Then you got then you got a supplement um which is this which which was sent out to you by email on Friday
Um and I think at least one of you came in and picked up a copy on Friday and that was basically a very short government memorandum and a matrix Yes That we have here That matrix describes the
current sign code Um and Karen will go over that with you in a little while And then today at your packages at your places rather you got a package of 164
pages of pictures of signs that we will go over It's basically a drive-thru town um that I'll go over with you and we'll get a chance to talk about the kind of signs that actually exist right here in
in town And then we have this copy that Karen um provided us which is um from the Jupiter code And then I think you also got
copies of um pictures that uh Joe had taken today Um and Sammy you didn't get us copies but we'll when we get to that we'll we'll uh do that But I
think you have those copies That's the paperwork that I believe you have in front of you Okay Now as to where we're going to to start those are the additional copies Jeff Yeah And they also have the comp plan and the comp plan amendment
Yes And then and there's the comp plan and then uh a I think it's the ear that was uh sent out So where we're going to start is we're going to start
um with a very brief introduction of what you got on uh last Tuesday Wednesday which was the attorney's drafts Um the draft that is marked up um
and has lines crossed out is the June draft and That's important because that was a draft that amended the current code So the what I want you to realize is that the current code
um actually exist within this document uh because the sections that were crossed out um or uh not underlined is the existing code Um the stuff that's
underlined was the draft revision that they did at that point in time What the other document that is labeled draft only and has blue on top of it That is the draft that they
provided us um on April 4th Now what what that draft is is it is a repeal of the previous code and the introduction of a new code
There's a lot of similarities between what they what they have but this this draft that they gave us is a constitutional framework um for adopting a code But there wasn't a lot of meat on the bones as
to how how many signs what kind of signs all those kind of things It was kind of bare bones on that approach Uh so just wanted to let you you know that there's significant amendment
um that we will have to to do What we're trying to get to is getting away from a content uh based sign code to a structurally based sign code And what I mean by that is we're going to get to
language that talks about the the type of structure of that the the sign is on or attached to For example we will use language like freestanding sign which means it sits uh alone We will use
language like window sign which means it's in a window We will use language like wall sign which means it's on the wall Um we will continue to have definitions of roof sign uh which as
proposed will be prohibited Um but it's going to be that kind of of language And I'll give you an example that we are going through and it's not quite in this draft but we're going to try to get away from language like menu board Um and a
menu board is when you drive you drive up to uh Wendy's or Culver's and you get in there and you you go "Okay there's the menu This is what I'm going to order from." especially if you're an older person
like me and you didn't use the app because God knows you know where that thing is or how how I'm going to read that little menu on here I want my selections on the menu board But we're not going to call it a menu board We're
going to call it a freestanding changeable copy driveth through sign Right so no real mention of content Talks about location drive-thru the fact that it's freestanding and that we're able to
change the the copy because they can raise the prices Um and every once in a while they might go "Oh we've got a two for one Jeff So Jeff's going to take that deal every time because rather than having one sandwich for six bucks if I
can have two for 10 I'm a budget conscious man." and I'll go "Yes that's the meal." And by the way now that I'm having two sandwiches I need a large order of fries and a big milkshake to wash that down
Anyway um the other thing that we're going to talk about is temporary signs So instead of calling them political signs or real estate signs um or garage sale signs they're going to
fall within this temporary sign category Now in here as we're discussing things I'm going to fall back and I'm going to call them garage sale signs or
grand opening signs so that you have an idea of what we are talking about Most of those kind of signs are going to fall within the temporary sign classification Um so that's uh my brief introduction as
to where we are what we're going to do at this point in time I'm going to uh turn it over to Karen for a little while and she's going to explain that matrix that came out to you on Friday Remember that the matrix is not of the proposed
signage because we didn't think there was enough meat on that But we're going to start off with where we are right now Um and she's going to take you there When she's done I'm going to take you through a little drive around town that
we went through And there's not to be any judgment I'm going to try my best not to to have judgment on these signs whether they're good bad or indifferent We're not going to It's not a code enforcement case We're not going to worry about whether they are compliant
non-compliant with the code It's more a chance for you um as the committee to to look at the signs because what we're really after here even though it's her title community standards but you guys are the beginning of that decision as to
what our community standards are what makes sense for this particular community because our sign code should not look like West Palm Beach's sign code completely different community We have large lots They have large
buildings Uh anyway with that I'm going to turn it over to Karen unless you have questions for me at this time Snuck Well first of all let me introduce myself Karen Gardner Young Um been with
the um town for about a week and a half I think So um I have been in the field for over 30 years Um as stated it's the community standards director which basically I'm managing code enforcement planning and zoning and assisting with building So like anything you touch the
property I'm pretty much involved with Um so honestly um I love this stuff Um but I do want to tell you this is the third sign code modifications that I've done in about three years They
are overwhelming Okay so I want you really to take a deep breath because Jeff and I are going to get you through this but and we're going to do it in small bites okay so it doesn't get that overwhelming because the one thing that a couple couple of observations when
I've done sign code and I was talking to Karen diagrams and charts are better than text right it's more you can see Uh and that's why I'm recommending doing a chart because it's meant to be user friendly right we don't want someone to
have to come in and say "I don't know what I need to do." Well if you have a chart that tells you exactly what you need to do it makes it nice and easy But the definitions of sign as Jeff will go through a little bit in his presentation can differ from location to location because that really matters and what the
community wants and doesn't want So that also requires us to make sure we understand The way I see this coming is you know Jeff did talk about some of the language We have some legal language we need to put into place Um I will tell you signs are very legal If somebody's
going to sue that chances are this is a good place they're going to sue and there's already been a a bunch of lawsuits that have already been existence which is why we're going out of contentbased and more to a non-contentbased because that's kind of what the law says So you'll see a lot of
the verbiage at the beginning that's you know blah blah blah blah but the legals you know the attorneys have to put it in So I wanted you to really take a look at the chart and go through that because that's the meat and bones to this Jeff and I can figure out how to get to where you want to be but we need to understand
where you want to be Okay And then we'll go into the legal questions and into the other text such as you know what's a prohibited sign what's an exempt sign we'll get into that later I don't want us to I want us to concentrate kind of on what signs we have Now the one thing
to keep in mind which we always have to do when we're amending sign codes whenever you change whatever's in existence you now impact existing signs So keep that in mind is that if we're making a sign area smaller we now have
signs that are out there that could become non-compliant And I'm not telling you not to do it but I just want you to understand either way We could allow them and make it larger or smaller This is one of those instances that you don't have a blank slate We already have signs that are out there And so when uh Jeff
goes through it he's going to ask you you know do do you like these don't you like these and again very different from a builtout environment and non rural which this is And we have businesses both in residential and in commercial right so we've got to be able to figure
those out as well So I'm going to start off with with my chart which I I tried the best Again as stated this is what we presently have So you will always have in your hands where we're starting So I used this as the base Yeah Just for a frame of reference what we popped up
there was uh our current zoning map and all the good stuff is covered up by the So if you could raise it up a little bit there you'll see that our current zoning keep on going a little bit is there That's good Everything is green which is
basically AR Um and then you've got the the blue um which is in a couple places that is uh the schools That's the elementary school and that's the the
park Um and so then those other colored areas that you see Um they are basically our current commercial areas Um and with that I'm going to turn it back over to
uh Karen But that gives you a sense of when she talks about um the requirements in the AR district That's everything in green When she talks about uh the commercial areas basically um our
commercial areas are the the same when it comes to sign code Just wanted to give you a could I just just really quickly before we go jump into this right off the bat with the matrix my confusion even after having living lived
here is be because of what we just went over a res is one giant place but maybe as far as the matrix goes it should be a bonafide a and then a res because those people are certainly allowed to have signs as it says later down later
because if this is going to be like a userfriend friendly type of thing Then an aggres person is going to be um is going to be not permitted the same signage as a bonafide a person in the agrees zone
That goes to farm signs Yeah we'll deal with farm farm signage differently as being exempt because yeah they're exempt from our code right but we'll you get what I'm saying no I know exactly what you're saying And we when we get to the the the drive around we
will we will see that Okay Okay Yeah Yeah We get it Um so what I did is on the top you can see those are the existing zoning districts So we have one residential we have two commercial you have institutional or public facilities
So that would be government schools churches typically and then you have parks and recreation which is speaks for itself usually grand and then conservation you know conservation generally is property that's not built up it doesn't have playgrounds doesn't have courts usually it's um you know
passive you might have a a walkway I put a column on the end which is the southern quarter uh those uh might be aware hopefully that we are starting right now on a discussion regarding the southern boulevard corridor those properties that are south of the
canal going down towards southern We're working with those property owners whether residential commercial or in between to figure out kind of what they want We kind of feel that's a different kind of feel than from the rest of the town So I put it because there's no
regulations for it but at some point we're thinking of putting in there based upon our communications with those groups So that's why you see that column as empty Okay So you will see I characterize into three basic areas Wall-mounted like Jeff said anything
attached to an item Could be an awning could be a canopy could be a wall Anything that's somehow attached that's wallmounted Okay Then you have freestanding which is basically again out on its own It could be on post it could be a monument sign anything that's
not attached is by itself And then the third category is temporary What we're going to call which like uh Jeff said your garage sales your open houses your political signs your special events your grand openings those are all under the
that general topic Okay and those are all the green So you have wall mounted on the first page is green Got it and then you go to page the next one is go three pages four pages later and you'll see the
freestandings in green and then you go to the next one Oh I'm sorry I put interior which we'll talk about So those are typically signs that you don't see from the right away So it could be in a courtyard or it could be if you ever seen what we call directory signs that you know you're
walking down it's a shopping center you're walking down they have a sign that says you know this way or this way is where the shop is located but it's not out on the roadway And then you have the last category which I said was the temporary announcement which is the next sign So we did the broad categories and
then within each one I did kind of specific All right we good okay Then under each one we look at general things which is again what I need you to really kind of concentrate on which is the number of signs
allowed Okay you can have zero prohibited to as many as you want You can base it This is a lot of places are different Wall signs are typically based on the store frontage So how big the store frontage is determines how big your sign is So
that puts it in you know comparison because you don't want to have a storefront that's 100 square feet and your sign 100 square feet right so that's why you kind of limit it based upon that Freestanding signs can be done usually on the property how long the
property is So there are different ways again of categorizing it but generally that's how you determine the number or the size generally Okay Sign area is Jeff will go over there's different definitions I like I'm going to make it very simple What this how much the sign
takes of the area and that would include a logo their name any design they have That would generally be the size of the sign Okay Then you do location Is it allowed to be at should it be by the median if it's a
freestanding sign should it be by the front door if it's a you know if it's an address or something like that um can you allow if uh will is it allowed on an awning as well as on the building so location could vary depending on where
you want it You have lettering Um yes believe it or not they do regulate the size of the lettering So it could be a quarter inch it could be 2 and 1/2 in it could be five feet whatever you want it to be They look at the lettering height and width of the sign
sometimes So how tall it can be how long it can be Setbacks is typically on freestanding How far back is it from the road from the road right away and that is very controversial Sometimes you want it closer if you're something like on Southern Boulevard where the speed limit
is very fast So they don't have the ability to see something if it's all the way back But then do you want so much sign clutter we call it on the roadway so that's something that again there's no right or wrong answers to any of these And then we always put the miscellaneous which kind of gets to
Joe's point Is there something specific we need to say about that partic particular district that we feel is necessary to put in there so they're aware of that So that's kind of how I did the categories So does that I mean that's the general I didn't want to make it too
complicated Not that I don't think you can handle it but again I'm always looking at from a person who owns a business for the first time and they've never done this before How do they get you know how do they deal with it more so than like a sign company who's probably read about 10 or million of these and kind of knows what's going on
right so just another quick question is and I'm guessing that this you you did this off of existing code right because I'm not sure that canopy signs or awning signs are going to be relevant in that if
the rural Vista guidelines passes into code gets codified we will be having porches and there won't be an awning on a porch or so I don't know where an awning do we have one in town i don't think we do
Doesn't the we I'm not sure that that we have an actual awning sign We have I think we got some canopy signs in here but we'll go through Okay we'll go through that And again we have to look at not only what's in the future right we need to also look what's there now
because if we don't include it typically the code means it's prohibited and the person would have to take it down And Joe the point you brought up is exactly why Jeff is going to go through some of these pictures okay because you look you live in the community right you have a much better feel for what what works and
what doesn't work I'm going to put it that way Um and so you know we're trying to catch everything we can And again I'm always going to tell everybody codes are work in progress Sure Right I will tell you even when when you do such a substantial change like this and you go
to implement it you're always going to find there's something we forgot and we're gonna have to come back and fill it in So you know again I want really you to be on that get to me like like Jeff said the the nuts and the bolts um and the meat on the bone however you want to put it Um so that way we have a
good feel um you know on what you what you want to do and what you don't want to do Okay Um Jeeoff I don't know Did you want to go through this or have them kind of because this is kind of what the code is and I think maybe the discussion will come out with your pictures Are you guys good with that i mean I can go
through it but you know again you know from the general perspective I think pictures would help you a lot better than me kind of going through this But and the other thing that I I'm sorry Jeff the other thing that I want you to be aware particularly on multi-tenant
buildings the major instrument that's going to govern that is typically going to be a master sign plan right because you typically want you know conformity of some sort within that particular um
you know area whether that's um you know multiple tenants Some of them if you have multiple signs like I've been in other jurisdictions where you have a bank that has directory signs wall signs and monument sign Sometimes you even require a master sign plan particularly for that instance So everything is kind
of brought to you at once because the worst thing is you do it peace meal right and then you're like "Oh I didn't realize that building was blue." and the sign is tan and it's like how did that happen so you know we we'll we'll kind of do figure out that and I just want you to be aware we really haven't been
uh able to implement that So I just want you to know that's another thing that's going to come with that text that we're going to bring forward So just kind of keep that in mind that this is kind of guidance This is at least the minimum or the maximum however you want to look at
it that we really want Um and again no right or wrong answer Everybody has a different way of of looking at things and some people prohibit things and others think it's the best thing since script So if you can look at that and maybe mark it up for me or and or you
know and just you know make some notes and say oh you know um yeah you know this is okay or this one's not okay or I like a little different because like I said Jeff and I can get you there Now the blues that I put
in I I I couldn't give this to you in good conscience without putting the blue ones in which is when you have a canopy sign you know typically you know hangs down you have to have a clearance I mean somebody has to be able to go underneath it And we didn't have a
clearance So I didn't want you know I wanted to give you at least something to consider So you know I just kind of put nine feet in because I figured you know I'm I'm vertically challenged and I can make it under six but you know somebody like Jeff is taller than me so I just wanted to make it And the same thing when you have window signs you should
talk about illumination You know do we want them to be highlighted with with lighting or not with lighting so I just wanted that this was actually language proposed by our attorneys that you know we just wanted to make sure we put those in there It kind of made a little bit of sense So you'll see that even in this
there are some things but this is only a draft This is not the be all This again is the base Okay Good Okay A lot It is a lot It is a lot But I just have one quick another quick
question on the interior signs in green um it says so number and then you somewhere along the line we start talking about secondary signs and then then there's now the driveway sign which would be a tertiary sign So right we're
like moving up the numbers So is that that's a monument sign So that's freestanding because it's page five And so usually usually you have um you can have secondary signs for two
reasons You might have multiple ingress egress driveways Okay So this sign I'm sorry this sign isn't necessarily saying target No it doesn't have the same It could be it's something else within the development Yeah I'll give you an
example Sometimes um you could have Walgreens in the front and the side it could say pharmacy Mhm So usually you have two signs particularly this is freestanding but like even on building signs you usually have two signs if they're on a corner because you want it on both streets because you want people
to know where to go right so that's But you know typically on freestanding you're allowed secondary sign A lot of it also is dependent on the size of the parcel Wow Right I mean I've had some jurisdictions where I put like um uh you know temporary signs you know if you got
five acres you can have more signs than you could if it's only one acre because it doesn't impact as much when you have them scrunched together in a smaller lot than on a larger lot Okay so some of these things you know we can talk about and determine is that something again you want you don't want and then Jeff
and I you know this is not going to be in my mind an overnight Um and again I don't want you to get overwhelmed and you need to let me and Jeff know you know hey guys I'm overloaded you know you know my wife's going to kill me my husband's going to kill me if I come back and talk about signs anymore But
you know kind of let us know cuz you know we're on I tell everybody I come from New York I know no speed but fast I drive fast I talk fast and I walk fast So you know you just need to you know calm us down and let us know that you know we want to get there because again
the sooner we get there the sooner we can implement exactly what you want Uh and you know there's a lot out there that Jeff and I have kind of looked at and go "What?" You know so we want to make sure that everybody is in compliance with what the community wants not what the signed code says today but
what you feel because again a code changes over time What was acceptable you know 20 years ago may may be acceptable now and vice versa You know we didn't have certain signs then that we have now I mean changeable copy signs weren't even in existence 40 years ago
So you know we we need to start working and talking about those things and and what what you feel is important and what you don't And with that I'll turn over to Jeff And don't hesitate Look we're not I won't talk for Jeff We're not here on a formal basis If you got a question
just come on let us know We'll take it down We'll address it So don't feel bad please And there's no dumb question Trust me Um what you're thinking is probably what somebody else is also thinking So please we we need your input We need your comments Well you got the bait and tackle down there that it's
full of all those signs I had the light up sign that basically looks pretty tacky and ugly but they've been there for 30 years I mean aren't they are they kind of grandfathered in or what well you know that's another conversation that you know we're going to have to have You know is you know you
don't if you are illegal you remain illegal But you know is that something that we want to amend or grandfather in or whatever you know there are ways to accomplish what you want to accomplish But you know Robert there may be others who think it's tacky and don't want it
even though they've had it for 20 years You know um you know signs particularly although we do have them internal but signs are typically the entrance way to to the town you know and what is it what is it we want to reflect when people
come in right that's so maybe the language could be if a sign is in disrepair and you're now non-conforming for whatever reason when it falls apart then you have to put one up that's to code right there Yes There I think uh I think when
we go through this you'll you'll see that maintenance is a an issue Um I think that we will talk about amortization of signs not tonight but at some point in time Okay Um and obviously
if you have u a sticker on a window um that can be amortized over a much shorter time period uh than you know a big beautiful
monument sign that you just put in So those are things that we're going to have to to discuss I'm I may regret this but I actually think um that we should meet more often
um when we're going through this because I know for myself when I am not in sign code uh mode I drive along the roadways and I'm like I don't even really notice
signs I don't pay attention to them I know it all It's all background and don't don't notice anything Then you start dealing with sign codes and I start looking around and as some of you know I live up in Stewart and the entire
ride home and when I'm getting in town I'm looking in like "Oh that sign that sign you start making observations You start noticing signs." I don't want to prolong that for you any any more than you have to And I think there's going to
be homework for for you all And it's not necessarily written homework or anything like that It's actually going out and observing Um because one of the things about signs is it it depends
on the location of the sign Um for example and I'll I'll just do this real quickly Real estate sign Typical real estate sign is I think 18 in by 2 feet three square feet One real estate sign on a quarter
acre lot That's perfectly appropriate You drive by you see that it's out here on our properties in in this town that are five acres And a 5 acre parcel is
typically 330 ft by 660 ft Three square feet Is it is it appropriate is it sufficient we'll go through that I'm not asking for a determination at this point
in time It's those kind of observations that I want you to to take a look at um and and get a real feel for First thing I want to do um is if you go to page 24 of the initial packet your actual agenda
Um and we go to the definitional section there 24 in the gray box 24 in the gray box uh 11 of 25 on the on the draft only copy And what I'm going to do is I'll read it out loud You guys can read along
silently because this is the definition of a a sign Um and I'm going to start by saying a rather than any or as it is in our existing code every So I'm going to say a ass a sign is a device frame
letter figure graphic character mark permanently affixed object ornamentation plane point design picture logo stroke stripe symbol trademark reading matter or other representation
for visual communication that is used to announce the purpose of or identity of the person or entity or to try to communicate information to the public That covers a whole lot of things And
one of the questions we're going to be asking you is do you want it to cover things like art that in this context is a sign but do you want to to
cover that this is depends on the jurisdiction that you're in There are there are some things like bench signs and murals and those kind of things Um do we want to regulate them in this sign code but I just wanted to make you aware
that a definition of a sign as it's put here it's very very broad Um so with that I'd like you to uh look at this page one of 164 And for the
folks that are in raft attention at home um Sammy uh if you could follow along I will try to tell you which page I am looking at and put it up on the big screen The um what we have here on page one are
signs and they are little temporary signs If you can expand that that'd be great If not it shows up obviously much better on the handouts that we've uh given Now these are these are temporary
signs They're actually located on the the property not on the rightway they're close to it And I'm going to talk about a lot of these signs from a a context rather than a a structural perspective
Um because what that first sign is Serenity Grove uh dental that's a directional sign and what the back one is Then you see the the directional sign on page
two And then you'll see the uh sign there now opening That's a grand opening sign Okay And I saw those things and I said well and then you also you also
have Palm Beach Pediatrics a directional sign to Palm Beach Pediatrics And this is a shot uh taken from the right ofway And these two signs once again the Palm Beach pediatric signs and the grand opening for the dentist sign
um are closer to to the building And I went out and I thought "Oh well I know what the problem is here." Because on we're now up to page six and it's probably hard for you to you could catch up Sammy I'm not doing a good job of
telling you what page I'm on Keep on going There's six Okay on page six I said I know what the problem is here Look at that monument sign They just got this little monument
sign out in front of their building on Southern Um and that's one of the reason that people have to go to these little temporary signs to let let them know where they they are and what they're opening Well what the question I have is
was this monument sign what was in their original plan because it was to code or was this what they just decided to put because it that's kind of a ridiculous place for it Number one number two it's also we're going to we're we're not
going to get into the approvals or whether they violate code right now No I'm not asking whether they violate it What I'm asking is did they make it as big as they could did they put it in the best place they could wow Because all of this looks like it might have been a bit of a shortcoming to especially given
that this is Southern Boulevard doing 60 miles an hour Let me let me tell you what I learned on Friday cuz on Friday afternoon I talked to a person who's much wiser than I am and knows this community a lot better than I do Um and
she's sitting up there and I'm going to steal her thunder She said "Jeff I don't care about what they can see from Southern." That was me Because that monument sign is in the wrong place
It should be at their driveway And I said to myself I'm not so smart but she is And she's right in my opinion
Um but so so one of the issues is and I actually learned today that they may be coming in for a site plan amendment to do just that One of the signage problems that you you run into is when that sign is in
the the wrong location and we'll talk we'll see a little further along on the drive Um that uh uh there's some questions about uh a lot of the the signs on Southern and I'll go into when we get to
it uh some of the discussions that was had by the committee with respect to rural Vista guidelines But once again not making judgments right now just seeing what what is out there in the in the town And just so you
all can follow along as to where we went uh we pulled out of here took a look at those signs right across the street from us Um and then we had to go to uh to Boonies not for lunch or drink but uh
cuz they were redoing their parking lot and we had to get them some information on that Uh then we went up the um southern corridor Uh went to uh Groves of Town Center and the public shopping
center Um drove around through the the college went up B road to North Road then came back down D went up and down Okachobee and then we came back um via Folsam and collecting canals So this is
not the entire town I think it is a pretty good representative representation of the type of signs we have in town Um but just so that's the that's what we're where we're cruising Was this um intended as a temporary sign
which Oh this one Serenity Grove Yeah Serenity Grove is a temporary sign Yeah Now the the question on on grand opening signs and and those kind of things which once again we're not going to ask you to answer tonight
Um but during the course of this evaluation is whether we should allow them what structurally they should be where they should be located how
um long they should be there and how often they should be there Because I'm going to spend a little time on this that property My recommendation to to the U committee will be when we get into those kind of
discussions that property owner should make an application um and maybe not it doesn't have to be an exorbitant fee or anything like that or an exorbitant process to let us um
know that yes I'm going to have a grand opening assuming that you all recommend and the council says "Yeah that's that's an okay thing but uh there should be a time limitation on it." They need to notify
us about it because it's the property that should have the limit on the number of grand openings if it shouldn't necessarily be um so up to you Uh if I have 15 new tenants do
each of them get a grand opening and does that mean that there's grand opening signs out there if we're 150 days out of the year those kind of things Not going to get there um tonight Just wanted to your point um that is a
temporary that should be a temporary sign right now I will tell you um that couple of things There has not we're going to see a lot of signs We
have gotten as um a town staff very very few complaints about signs over the years Most of the complaints that we do have
gotten about signs have to have had to do with political signage and not all of the signage that you see Typically this town's practice has been code enforcement is done on a
complaint basis So it's not that our code enforcement officers are blind and don't see anything but we don't get complaints And so where there may be variations to the current
code we have not been uh aggressive or done a a sweep on those kind of things My recommendation once again is if we're going to go through this effort and we're going to get a sign
code that works for the town and we're going to have amortization as to how long non-conforming signs can be there and everything One of the recommendations is going to be don't waste that effort by requiring complaints This should be proactive code
enforcement Otherwise you will end up in a situation where if you will see people will put signs all over the place Well maybe some of that could be alleviated if we put into the code that your
temporary sign is good from the first to the end of the month And at that point then public works goes through and picks them all up And then you can you know and you can ask for an extension or something That way then you're not running all over town trying to figure out which signs are no longer they can
end up in the canals and that was always the problem with so many it starts off it starts off with having a I don't mean the polit I don't mean political could be become pollution either fly off in the wind no I understand so but if there's a time limit set that the public
works can go out on a timely basis instead of every day they have to go check for signs that are past their shelf life then I mean that's going to be a an incredible amount of road trips How many square miles are we 33 somewhere 12 What are we a lot you know
the twoe ones at 15th they get picked up the one month ones on the 30th they get picked up This is a huge opportunity for us Yes To put kind of set our you know put our stakes in the ground Exactly I mean this is all about branding Um signage is about it It
reflects the town of Lockxahhatchee Graves So I'm all for this for sure Okay For sure Let's uh if we could move on because I don't I don't want to spend too much time on all all these Just trying to show you uh page seven Um what
this is sh this sign is not in there for the turning vehicles or the stop for pedestrians What we have there I believe it's referred to as a snipe sign um is wellwater expert service and installation Somebody attached that sign
to um to the base the bigger sign and that little thing is for advertising um for that business there But that's that's a snipe sign Where is aren't we and aren't we aren't aren't they not permitted at
this point right here at the Yeah they would be at the corner right not typically No they're not But this is just once again this is informing you of what's out there We're not at this I'm not asking you good or bad on on all of
that And just want to let you know that there's there's there If you go to page eight we're now at um we're we're now at uh the shopping center that has boonies in it Global
Mart Yeah Um even more And what what I'm showing you here this is is an example of window signage Really sure Yeah Um page nine there's more window signage
Oh boy Yeah Now at some point in time not at this moment we're going to ask whether or not uh you want to limit window signage or whether you think um
this is not quite enough Um page 10 is more window signage Um I briefly we're uh when we go to page 11 um we see uh an example of
uh under the canopy sign and uh Karen will correct me when I when I don't get uh the correct terminology there Um and in the window uh you see a fat guy So that's not a sign That's my reflection
Um and this is also an example of uh what appears to be a business where the sign remains um but the business does not But so I'm sorry So that so you're considering hanging something behind the fascia of a porch a canopy sign It's
under typically Okay All right under cannabis Okay Um and then we have Okay They're more like this Okay Can go the other way Yeah When we go uh to uh the 12th uh slide Sammy you're not keeping
up You're still on number six I've been yelling numbers too Next one There All right Now he's with us All right Um and I say everything to that man with a lot of love and affection for
beautiful right all right show them So you've got there's there's an example of under the canopy signs um there And then we went we went back for a second um on page
13 and you'll see very functional needed um uh products Um but and there's signs on those there are signs on
those Um and and that's kind of a a different kind of thing Then we'll go to to page 14 And here you have um an example a parapet
uh yeah of the what I'm what I'm showing you here is there's a uh there's not a master sign plan clearly at at this particular facility Um I love a lot of the
businesses in in there and this is this is not to pick on anybody or anything like that This is just a to point out that you've got a variety of signs there But it would also seem like to me if we did something that was more uniform like the under canopy signs that were hanging from a chain a chain or whatever when
something does need repair or is being replaced by another it would be so much easier for them to change than having to hire some contractor to but I also think you said the right word there uniform Yeah Uniform needs to be some rhyme you know and and so you do have there's an
example of a cloth under canopy sign you know um whether it's a banner or not I'm not sure You you also see signs on the veterary clinic parking only Um when you go to page
15 right and this is right in front of the business we once again have uh a sign advertising that particular business Now I'm not sure how effective that sign is but it is out there You
said 15 15 Yeah that's 15 Well and this particular building correct me if I'm wrong it doesn't have or does it does it have a monument out front it does
Sorry it does doesn't it um 16 page 16 Once again this is some other business in there And the principal reason that I took this is to to show you just so ugly um that those are those are wall signs
They're they're not they're not roof signs because they don't go above the the parapit But um it's also a question as to you know that's that's an example of what happens when you don't have a master sign
All right Um we'll now go to oh boy page 17 And once again I'm not making any judgment about about these these these uh these signs or anything like that What what you have here is an example of
a fence sign um that arguably is a temporary uh sign and it's you know um it's made out of a a cloth or a plastic material Um there may be some
maintenance questions with respect to it Um and the the other reason that I got it up there is you know whose fence that is yours The town of Lockets Groves It's
the back of our fence I was like "Okay." Uh yeah And then we go around um to to page 18 Um and we got a fantastic mechanic there Um uh and you see the the
signage associated with that Uh some of the stuff like his sign is you really don't see that from the street You have to go around the back of that building to see that That's right And and that that's one of the questions to keep in the back of your mind and
we'll go over it with some other examples visible it is from a main where where the visibility is and you know one of the things we will ask you when we get there not tonight necessarily if you have if you have a situation
where the property is completely buffered from its neighbors and the rightway with respect to the interior of the signs do we care and we'll we'll get to what I think is a decent example of that
later on Um I think we have to care no matter where the sign is because it gives a town a certain look Well it we'll just keep on going because I uh when I I don't want to spoil the surprise
the journey All right Um uh 19 is just once again the the the back of um the building and you see there um you see address signs and then when you go to page 20 you'll actually see what you
would think of as more than an address sign and identification sign Um and you know that I mean these raise more questions I'll say I'll say that that identifying the
business in the back that kind of makes sense to me It does for pickup and delivery and stuff like that 100% But nobody else usually go British feed You go in and out that door as a as a patron but none of those other ones you do right but I've been this door many times
right and so then we are now up to page 21 Oh look It's blank Yes That's a bit sad isn't it Well I you know I I heard a I I think
there's a reason for that but um there there you have um this is not really a monument sign I think it's more along the lines of a pole sign or something like that but it's a it's a big tall sign So that is
the that's the plaza sign uh that they have out there How old is that thing do you know uh when it went up probably old enough to be non-conforming at this moment Um I don't I don't know
I I started living out in this area in 1986 and I want to say it was there It was I think I think I think the the plaza was there before I came Sam was laughing I don't think he was born then
Well I guarantee he wasn't because I've got I've got children that are much older than him but you know I don't hate the Palms West sign itself because it is a bit nostalgic and it does have a shout out to our old town Um but the
construction and the placement I think it is I don't know But yeah it's it's something to consider It is something to consider I I you know it is a it's a memorable sign And then we move to um the more what you would call the the
front at least you know the the portion of the plaza that is facing uh southern And you can see they're doing a beautiful job of uh putting in a new parking surface there Um and once again you've got you've got
a variety of signage there Um and that's on that's on uh page 22 Yeah And then when we go to to page 23 um you see
uh a variety of signage Um you know there's there's several signs advertising some of my favorite things Um and you also what I want to point out is you see that big red chair Yeah That's a sign I know it is under our
definition It surely is Yeah Whether or not we want to to deal with that or or not What does that have to do with locks grows um it it is it's a picture spot It it is Yeah Okay Um that's that's
something that that y'all will need to consider I'm not advocating one way or another I want you to to to understand that because when we go to page 24 um we once again we see a variety of signs You'll see some flags there
um you'll see the American flag but you'll also see some other flags that are definitely more um from an advertising perspective Um and you'll see uh something that somebody would say is definitely artwork but at the same time
that's also a sign under our code And so whether we want to regulate those those kinds that that line between art and uh and signage is going to be a question for you all to to
consider Um well and the chalkboard sandwich sign is also but is that I mean you're counting that as a temporary sign as well right yeah I mean as far as artwork and murals go for me personally as long as there aren't any words on it or if the words
are something like Bloxy Grove or welcome to Florida the sun state something like that I don't I personally don't Yeah As long as it's you know case by case or something like that As long as it's not a giant phallic you know I mean there's got to be
obscenity sort of You mean like the Capitol building in Tallahassee oh or the Washington Monument in DC I was I was just a little more lifelike or graphic would might have been my what I was I'll just obvious I just want to I
don't know have you all the Capitol building in in Tallahassee It is a relatively tall rectangular building It sits up on a on a hill and there are two domes uh
immediately adjacent to it Um and my grandchildren recently my grandsons uh recently took a vis visit up there and one of them said "Is is that a
um and then and then there was a a mention of you know um balls and then my seven-year-old said and I got to share this with you because it does go My seven-year-old my seven-year-old
grandson says "Wow they really missed an opportunity They should have put a fountain up there That's so cute Wow." So oh my goodness Anyway back to back to
the signs and um we're on 25 Uh and that is a I guess a pole sign Um and it also has some some changeable copy up on the the top with the time and
the the temperature Um and there is also another freestanding uh sign that is uh little less permanent Um Hey Karen can I ask you a question really quickly on all these other sign
codes that you did um did did these towns like especially especially where that it's like the major thoroughare that that's that you know once once you know you're entering the town did they require like the same font and the same
you know what I mean for because that would sort of string the town together a little bit I mean like quite honestly I really like that the old bank sign I do But it wouldn't it be cool if it you knew it was in Locks of Hatche Groves because it all used I don't know western
you know what not like boonies whatever that is the May West um they more regulated um for example um some of the jurisdictions didn't allow pole signs They only wanted monument signs Um they
usually do it with materials Okay Um you know so like uh I worked in Parkland so if you go to Parkland you'll notice brick You know you're in it as soon as you hit a brick sign or a brick building Okay so they did it along those lines Some jurisdictions do it by restriction
of like coloring Okay so like um North Palm didn't want bright colors Um you could do something like like that but you try not to um restrict too much because everybody has their own personality Sure Um it's more but but
again appropriate for like a corridor like I don't know whether you know it would that type of approach would be throughout the entire town but certainly on a corridor might southern blue Okay Yeah Okay Thanks
Um if you go to page 26 um there's an example of an A-frame sign Um uh this I'm I'm not sure whether this is an on premise sign or an off- premise sign It's right on the the boundary of the
property Um there's the snipe sign um you know and and then you've got this directional sign that is really really confusing to me because I don't know whether it's right left or straight ahead but somewhere
somewhere around the curvy isn't it now um but those signs those signs exist um and then if we go to page 27 Um we've got Did they just find two poles and tack up a board in between
them is that kind of looks like old telephone pole yeah those have been there for a while you know I think No I think that's a real sign design that uh was probably approved at one point in
time Um and you'll also see the um the the sign the what is that called it's a it's a feather feather Yes Feather feather flag You know a little banner thing right there You know those
can all just go right away Yeah Yeah You have those Um and then there's uh on when you go to page 28 you see a more comprehensive view of of that sign Once again you've got window
signage You've got um wall signage You've got you know uh you've got the supermarket Um I'm not sure whether the vape and smoke is a separate location but you
got that going on Um next when you go to page 29 um you you've got what I find to be an interesting sign It's a It's a wall sign
but it's also It looks to me like it's canvas and it's not you know it's not what you would think of necessarily as a a permanent sign Um the other thing I wanted to point out to you is on this sign I think it's a very good
example Um and I won't send you back to the the definition Um but when you're looking at sign face uh all of that black area is included in the sign face area
It's not just the the copy prime storage and the the little PS but because that black area sets it off from the building all of that would be included in the sign face area Why is sign face area
important because most of the time when you're talking about the the size of a sign that's um acceptable you know there's going to be a height Um there might be uh some width but
there also is the sign face area And so in that case um it's all the area in black not just the the lettering I thought that was a good example there of that Um when you go to uh page 30
um you're you're at the gas station Um and once again you've got uh you know several of their services advertised um gas stations you know typically it's it's the one place that we allow changeable
copy and pricing because that's very important to to all of us It generally that's that's kind of unique or it was kind of unique will go on to more modern signage um that you have where you know
you got electronic signs and they are they totally change the picture you know they they tell me not only do I want a hamburger but you know a second later I do want my French fries and they show me the picture of them all in electronic or if I'm driving around they
tell me u that I once again did not win the the lotto but the good news is there's more of opportunity tomorrow Um on pa page 31 um you'll see uh a temporary sign that
is attached to the the fence Um and you know that's why that one is there to show you that you in the background you've got that um page 32 once again
you get the the typical um the gas station you'll see window signs Um uh you'll see that there's a threeack of something that is now uh available Um uh temporary
sign Um moving on to um page 33 We're now in the newer uh newly developed area Um and we're at the the car wash There's a lot of signage
there um all of it relevant and important information you know because I need to go know where I I can go Um and that's where I pay those kind of things
Um when you go to page 34 you've got examples of window signs there Um once again you know in some ways completely full and
I thought our sign code at the moment said that you couldn't completely block put up any you can't then see through the window there I'm going to show you signs
that may not comply with our code Again this is not from a code enforcement standpoint just to show you what's out there Okay I'm sorry Um and then when we we come back that's going to be one of those questions I think this is when you if those signs weren't there you'd be
looking at cars going through the car wash and the equipment That's all you would see through those windows I'm I don't know if you would see that I think that's an office area Now when you go when you go to the next pages pages 35 and 36
that may be what you're referring to Yes Except guess what there's no window Oh that's true That's supposed to be an architectural feature showing a little depth in the building
Um so not really It's question can you have a window sign when there's no window when there's no window Pretty creative you know because they've exceeded their sign uh allowance Well we're once again we're not making
judgments and that these folks did go through an approval process and and I I honestly do not know whether they are compliant or non-compliant with their approved um sign code at this time This was really just to show you yeah what is
existing out right now I want to make sure that I repeat what I said before which is we haven't gotten a complaint that I can rec that I know of um in code enforcement about those things Now I'm
not inviting complaints at this time I'm just saying I'm talking about that complaint and I just opened Pandora's box I was gonna say wait till next week but I also feel like for some even me
having sat on you uldc for you know the last couple of weeks um I would know as a town as a resident that this type of stuff was a complaint
based that I could complain that I could go I mean I would say oh my god I really hate the neon colors and lockache growth but would I know to go and file a formal complaint and and and continually drive That's one of the reasons when when we
get done with this okay endeavor I am going to make the recommendation to anybody who wants to to hear it or doesn't want to hear it If you're going to go through all this effort with the sign code sign code is not something that should be complaint
driven It needs to be able for the staff to to notice it That doesn't mean they're going to notice everything or get everything but if you if you don't have enforcement you will have non-compliance
because apparently these signs work Well right And you're you're I mean like obviously code enforcement is going to notice the big stuff and the big stuff is are the biggest offenders Um or possibly Yeah Then uh getting to
30 uh 33 Uh no I'm sorry 36 Um you've got uh their their wall sign Um when you get to I'm I'm on 38 I guess now Sammy too Yeah Next one Yeah Um they start
running through that Yeah This is this is a temporary sign directional in nature Um 39 you've got more directional signs Um and you know
thematically one of the things you can say about this is this particular this signage um at least for this particular location there it there's a consistency
of the coloration and all the rest of it Um uh so they probably took that into account when they were uh looking at at things Um we now move on to to the next business And we're not we weren't trying to pick on anybody or anything like that
We were just driving around and going to the next place You see there a directional sign to tell you where the the drive-thru is Um uh for some reason uh there was a an apparent need and I
don't know whether this the top of this what the top of this sign originally was that or that poll that you see there And I'm on page 41 right now Um but that's a that's a snipe sign on that that poll And apparently
the the drive-thru and the curbside pickup are not necessarily the same things Um curved curves curves but they're all the same direction Somebody I know Um 42
the curd might 42 we have another another sign Um and then 43 Um we've got a vehicle that's used as a a sign Wow
Um and that is interior to their parking lot On 44 you've got once again that changeable copy sign in in front
Um and uh uh what I can promise you is that going to be gone I was not going to the bathroom at that moment I I know everybody was thinking that right i was like "What are you doing up there?" And and and so you you've got the
monuments you've got a monument sign Once again this monument sign is not not near a driveway Um the then you have the you have the the Culver sign on the for sale truck trailer the the trailer that
that is there um that's out there with a for sale sign that's been sitting in their parking lot for months The next the next page is uh 45 and you see the wall sign up there You also see um one of those drive-thru
changeable uh freestanding changeable copy signs but a whole lot of other little temporary signs around there Um and they're just trying to make Jeff Hungry Um and then on on 46 you'll see
that this is to remind Jeff that there was even more stuff And I'm going to have to loop around again because more good stuff here I was just there to look at so I didn't see And that's where the Kurd stop is
And then uh 47 This is just to show you that there are signs on um on trucks and vehicles We're not suggesting that uh we begin to to regulate that but this is you know um there's lots of signage out
there that are mobile signs Going on to page 48 This is um one of Joe's favorite signs Um and it is directional And this was put up by the uh the developer You do
say that there's one last chance to remind Jeff that "Wow I could have had Wisconsin cheese sauce on right as you run into a car because you can't see the stop sign." Yeah Yeah You know nobody's perfect
Yeah 40 uh 49 Um we've got Aldi's and Aldi's from a signage standpoint is uh pretty clean You see thatformational sign on 49 Um you see their
um their wall signs up there and you can see that there's there's two of them Uh that's the correct word Clean Um we 51 you see AutoZone Um they've got some
window signage um you know talking about that they are now open and other things We then go out on 52 You've got the Autozone sign there Um once again not not immediate to the the driveway and in
the Burm in the Burm And this is something that we had talked about with respect to to the rural Vista guidelines And that one of the things that the RO the committee came up with is we wanted more
dense um dense barrier and a a longer barrier and whether this kind this kind of this signage is you know once that sawrass grows up a little bit it's gone What are we going to be able to uh to see there
that's just an observation You know if I were the owner I would have ripped out that sawrass and put it back a little bit All right Um uh we once again on page 53 we got another sign of all these uh 54 Um this
is there because we found this this sign in the in the shrubbery It is a reminder that all of us even ones that are put out by the town of Lockxahhatchee groves um we need to pick up our signage
because it is well beyond February 4th Jeff was having a great time out there Page 55 Um once again there is a monument sign that is close to the the
drive aisle there Um you do see some uh temporary signage there When you go to Wawa on page 56 you see signage Um that's actually facing that's looking
out towards Southern on the BM Um 57 this is this is gas stations and this is you'll see that they will around the pumps they will try to maximize signage uh 58 and another snipe sign Uh we're
still at Wawas on page 59 Um you'll see that the gas station pump has become a sign and the communication device and all kinds of things Um it's just acknowledging that
Uh page 61 more signage along uh in the area Um then you've got the the Wawa itself on 62 Um we went over to the the public
shopping center Um 63 shows Cricut um which shows outside display with signage A-frame um window signage there in addition to the wall sign Does outside outside display take away from the
maximum depth of a porch right like don't we have maximums and minimums for There is a question that there's a question and I don't know the answer off the the top of my head and you'll see it in another
um another few pictures as to what the extent of our um outside display space is allowed to be I I don't know whether that's compliant or not compliant Um it would like I said taken
not for code enforcement purposes but for to show signage So they typically look at ADA Yeah Space enough for a wheelchair to go by It's not enough You can't do it Um 64 you've got directional signage
there Uh 65 um you've got a directory sign Um in ' 66 you once you see a real estate sign or rent sign with a smoke
that's arguably temporary Um but very often those are left off a long time Um 67's another monument sign um 68 That sign might have uh it it might be because of the tornado
that it looks like that or it might really supposed to be like that I'm not really sure Um 69 We've got another gas station 70 more gas stations U 71 Another 7-Eleven gas
station Just to show I wasn't picking on the Shell or the Waw Wa Um 375 was today Diesel No that was that was last week Okay It's gone down a little bit Uh at least when I was driving earlier it did
Uh 72 once again you show show frontage and you see variety of of signage out there Um 73 Um this is there to to show that
um our garbage containers have signs on them You may wonder where the um the doors are Yes Where are they i'm not I'm not 100% sure but we'll we'll see in a little bit an example of what can be
done when the doors are there Um this is one of my personal favorites Um these are what I call Ballard signs They are temporary signs in front of Publix This is on page 74 Yeah Which is great All
all all Publixes that I know of have these I don't think they're I've never seen a sign code that really addresses whether or not these things are legal Let's invent one Yes Well let's take a
position Let's take a position Yeah um 75 Um that's really to that that public's liquor sign is it's a it's a separate tenant Um it's not part of the Publix itself Um 76 is another shot of
the the signage It's really to me more interesting from the the backdrop and you see the uh the sign on um one of the out parcels You can see the Dunkin Donuts over there Um and this is an example I think of
that when you look at 77 you have you do have a master sign plan for for this area but they're not exactly alike They're they don't have to be uniformed And you know uh you know I'd
call it a black and white theme but they're those are not the same but they are all part of a a master sign Um and then when you go to 78 you see some deviation to that because that's
probably a um a copyrighted sign but you'll also see that uh another one of the feather signs some A-frames Um then you get down to uh on page 79 you're at Tractor Supply
Um I'm not sure whether I skipped over the the public sign but the the public sign itself for for a to give you an idea on scale Um this tractor supply sign face
is just under 100 feet Square feet or 100 that's 100 square feet Um the public's sign big public sign that's 120 square feet Um under our current sign code they
had to get variances but that's to that's not to say right or wrong on it That's to give you an idea on scale Um so when we come back and we start talking about uh the size of signs that'll give you an idea Um and you can make your own determination as to
whether that's the appropriate size or not Um once again you've got a bunch of A-frames out there You've got um a lot of uh product um on or near the sidewalk
I'm on page I'm moving to page 80 You'll see more outdoor signage there and outdoor display Um 81 more of the same and you see the variety of products that they they have Once again I don't think we've
ever gotten a complaint about any of this 82 um you will once again see it Now when we get to to 83 when you put the the dumpster
um the the the dumpster uh uh doors up the gates um they become a very effective marketing And this actually unlike the Culver's which Jeff had to go
oh my gosh I missed some food This is very conveniently located I can see this uh from the drive-thru changeable copy um freestanding sign Um we've got an on 84 as you can
see we're at Wendy's Um we've got the temporary banner up there on page 85 Um have an umbrella under the porch It's bizarre We uh
on 86 you will see um Palm Beach State Colleges sign that is on southern um it's I want to tell you first we do not have the power to regulate these signs
Um that being said this is this is you know an electronic sign Um so you got changeable copy on a continuing potentially constant basis Um that sign is is pretty large
Personally I think it looks pretty good Uh when you when you get back on 87 that is um their monument sign that is located on B- Road Um and I have the the
same feelings about that sign Um so take a look at it as part of your homework Um page when we get to page 88 um we've got an example of farm signs
um red clove farming and nursery uh and not necessarily in that order need to be regulated Um page 89 you've got another High Point Farm sign
Um and then on 90 um you've got another little logo for High Point um Farm Uh once again I'm not sure whether those signs went through the permit process or whether somebody asserted that they were
farm signs We take a a liberal view on on farm signs and we um would include as a part of the farm sign the name of the sign Um I could
make an argument that that's not really uh necessarily um what the the state law says but um here we look at that as um an acceptable sign Um
why would that not be acceptable well if you read the the the state if you go to the definition of a farm sign yeah farm sign typically talks about product selling the product or identifying the business So it would say ecoin facility
uh a sign located on lands used for bonafide agricultural purposes that is erected used or maintained on a farm as defined in Florida statutes by the owner or lei of such farm and relates solely to farm produce merchandise services
sold produced manufactured or furnished on such farm in accordance with section 604.50 are services sold So if they are selling stalled I'm going I'm talking about my barn cuz I know my sign's going to be on here somewhere and it's going
to So was it going to say Bellweather Farm equestrian facility because I I don't rent stalls We'll see shortly But what no but what I mean it seriously because what's the answer for these people because in the in the I what I'm telling you is what I'm telling you is
the way we interpret it right is that the name that name of the farm uh you can you can get a permit for it but you don't have to I'll use an example would be say your family owns the land Okay So
maybe it's ABC family That's all you have on the top but the farm service is Mecca Farms Well yeah So the question is whether that name because it's not associated with a product or with the
actual farm services But Joe what we're saying is we interpret it as including it We're just letting you know that interpretation could be up to you guys eventually if that is something we want to address Well I'm just I'm kind of
just trying to jump the gun a little bit because I imagine there's going to be a lot of those throughout town There's not I know mine and and High Points aren't the only ones They're just happen to be on B- road Um and I'm sure people want their signs I'm I certainly do but but I also don't want to be non-conforming So
if if before we can make get an answer you know what I'm saying it our current interpretation and I think the interpretation that probably will for going forward going forward is that's a farm site Okay Because it doesn't but it doesn't prevent it's like anything else
uh that is exempt from permitting It doesn't mean you can't take it through the permitting process Got it I mean because I get that a nursery is going to say what they're selling They they want to get you in there but most equestrian facilities aren't selling
anything Yeah Uh are they well then they provide for rent outside but they provide services They provide services Um not Yeah I don't why you're renting
services No training Nope I rent my facility Yeah The entire facility Yeah They a dry stall They do everything Yeah So it's a farm That's all it is because the people that you're leasing to are operating They do it all They
operate it So um 91 um we've got Wow Um I think that's a ministry um sign that is out there 90 92 we have some examples
of farm signs Uh and then 93 um this is this is this is there um for the for sale sign in the back And my understanding is I don't think Belleather Farms is um for sale I I
don't believe I think everything's for sale Yeah But but I understood that that I think that the reason I put this sign in there is that's an easement road and that that sign is actually located It's
intended for property behind Um so it is on an easement that they have an interest in um but not on the the property Just something to keep in mind when we talk about temporary signs real you know real estate signs those kind of
things That's on my property Yes And it makes sense right um but it it benefits the property behind you as I think Well but that but that that's his right away I Right Yes That's what I'm saying That's what I'm saying That's you know I'm saying
we should allow that Oh okay Okay I'm not You know not give an opinion Um I think it makes sense But 94 um this is another beautiful sign This is a another nice sign Um arguably a farm
sign And then we get to 95 Um this is um this is on the corner of B and Okchobee Um you know these signs um there's some fence signs on there There's some
freestanding signs Um and just wanted to take a look at it This is this is to this next sign on on 96 Um hey y'all I'm not sure that that
business is still there Timothy Um and I would stand to be corrected but um we're not sure that you know that I'm not sure that business is still operating out there I don't think it is
Um 98 Um that that's the sign for Good Earth Farm This one is there because this is an off- premise sign Um and it goes to something that some folks in the agurism world would like is off- premise
directional signs of some sort Um but this is this sign is actually located um right in front of the G property Um just a little uh a little east of the intersection
Um and then when you get to 99 um you once again you've got um a sign It's near the entrance of um that business It's technically off premises because that's in the middle of the
canal right away Um and when we get to to to agurism that has been a request that they would like wayfinding signs those kind of things so that people can be directed to their
businesses Um uh page 100 Um here is a classic temporary um farm sign uh you know talking about sheep for sale
Um 101 we got jackf fruit from for sale Um on 102 this um is a grand entrance sign for
um a a farm Um it it would be something that we would probably consider part of the the farm fence and a farm sign Um and I think we should
consider whether or not you could have a similar sign even if you weren't a farm because it's a a entrance to a beautiful 5 acre piece of property maybe a 10 acre piece of property um the fact that you don't
want to farm on it How is this kind of sign uh not in keeping with Locks of Hatchet Grips even if it was just you know Jeff's lazy ranch but it wasn't really a ranch right
um that 103 uh shows directional sign um to a stable um 104 shows um another it's a
it's similar kind of concept as the farm sign I'm not sure whether this is a farm property I didn't look it up Um but uh that's there Uh 105 Um you have an example of a a for sale sign that
is raised up a little bit another another way to to advertise um with the post and those kind of stuff those kind of things instead of just sticking it into the ground And I'm I'm going to show you you'll see a variety of for
sale signs um here uh which are temporary signs Um 105 is uh another nursery sign and then you'll see a temporary sign underneath there uh
107 Um this is there because you see um the Rivendell uh South uh Rivendell South um flag and the the flag post being used as
a a sign Um 108 you've got more farm signs You've also got you know the the flag there Um 109 once again you have a so a
Florida flag and a US flag is assigned That's a question as to whether or not you want to regulate them as as such Um some towns include it some don't like
I can see a flag saying buy our peanuts as a sign But well the the the classic examples of of s American signs being used um or as signage and advertising Uh
car dealerships Um I've seen car dealerships that have 50 American flags out in front I have seen car dealerships with signs that are about the size of this room Oh okay Um and and I'm not
suggesting that we we there but there are times when um people get into the idea of wait that's that's a little bit uh far Um if you ever go to
um the polo fields over on 50 flags Uhhuh Yeah Lakewood Remember you can't do contentbased right so you can't say it's okay for an American flag but it's not okay for a stable flag It's so that's why you have
to look at it and determine is that do you want to regulate it if you don't want to regulate it do you regulate it as a sign do you regulate it just as a flag outside of the sign so there's a whole bit different ways of looking at it and and the one of the interesting that particular polo field over in
Wellington that we're talking about um the origin at least of some of their uh some of their wealth was uh Tamkin Chevrolet Oh thought you were going to say making flags No no no that would have made but so that's why I go like oh
yeah that's you know typical regulate the size of the flag or the numbers of flag the height of the flag the height of the flag pole yes yeah um the proximity to each other and those kind of things um anyway
uh 109 another um entrance sign to a farm um on 10 Um that's a another sign
um once again to farm Is that is that an off premise sign is that or is that house on that that's weird I'm not I I think I think that is looks like it's on that property I think it's part of it
Yeah Um 111 It's It's there to show you a a two-face sign or doodle face sign Um uh 112 you once again it's a farm sign but it's a fence sign um that's
temporary in in nature Uh 113 Uh another another um nursery sign Uh 114 um Eminem tropicals One of the reasons
that I'm I'm going through so many of these is um these are all in AR They're all in the AR Um 115 Uh this is getting back out to
Okachobee Um and 116 you'll see a monument sign on Okachobee um for the school Um 117 you'll see
um you'll see the the Macy farm sign Um that's actually taken because I think that's in the rightway Yeah But it's in Palm Beach County's rightway Um and then you have an an interesting
um once again um it's this is part of Macy Farm and is now hiring a farm sign or not on that fence Uh interesting question The wholesale stuff that that definitely is um moving down a
little farther to a road Um and you have a mural Uh that's a an an existing mural Um and
um then on page 120 you've got um the the garden stop Um once again farm signs Um but I didn't take it was the one example on there They had a uh one of
those gumbies that float in the wind the windb blown signs Um and just an example of a sign came to to Big Dog Rescue um located on Okachobee They have a sign
there Um and then we drove into um Big Dog Ranch And I think for the most part the signs that I'm going to show you in here you can't see from the right away
or the other property There's a lot of little signage here There's a mural Um I just uh we took a picture of the uh the bus
Um we there is uh within there there is signs for each and every one of the the buildings even though it's all part of one nonprofit business Um you know uh on page 124 and 125 you'll see slightly
different houses and those kind of things When you go back there it's consistent I mean there's a there's a lot of signage and I want you guys to drive by from the roadway and drive into it because you can Um if you want to go pet a dog
that's perfectly okay too Um but see if you can see that from somebody else's property And that goes to our earlier discussion Should we or shouldn't we care um not making a judgment on that I want you to as part of your homework
drive by that um and see it 126 This is another example of a for sale sign Obviously considerably different than some of the others that that we have uh seen Um but um drive by and see what you think about
bet on Okobee Yeah Yeah Um and then 127 um you've got an aggro tourism um uh place there and they've got a they've got a
temporary consider wedding chapel agro tourism Huh yeah Agurism when you go to the agurism um site at the state you'll see uh weddings is one of the things that is
highlighted um I went to my my niece was married up in up in Martin County on on a farm um but really cool barn that they had converted
um 128 you see the Palm Beach County um monument sign um 129 Um you'll see another type of for sale sign Once again these are bigger than than three feet
you know three square feet Also too this there there's a lighting element to a lot of these that's got to be looked at Okay And why those colors for the fire rescue were they different colors to start with or was it always
orange and not orange i'm not I'm not sure Okay Um um 130 on page 130 you see a a a future home It's temporary sign Um
people can can argue as to how long those kind of signs should should be there Not picking on that Seven days development but uh um you also go to this sign has been there for a while and once again looking
at maintenance of it Um on 131 you'll see um a pretty big temporary sign um you know advertising uh a big event coming up at the at the
church Um is that signed down now not Easter yet No it's April 12th April April 12th was the Easter egg hunt but Easter is next week Uh They change
regularly do they yeah Um and 133 uh we're coming up to uh another uh Macy farm It's not the it's not the same location It's the opposite end Um this sign is uh on page 134 That's
farther back Um uh as it's on the opposite the that's not the roadway that's the sidewalk there Um 135 once again looking at the the sign and
um you know we can talk about maintenance of that used to be such a beautiful facade and it's just it's very good It's pretty ironic as it um not much of a landscape It used to be it was beautiful and you can see the chopped
trees They're just Yeah they they've have plans to replant them Um 136 um you've got uh sign associated with um Ruth's Pantry which I think is associated with the
Palms West uh church there uh 137 you've got the the church sign itself And once again structurally you'll notice what I notice there's a lot of signs that are
wooden signs Yeah Yeah Hurricane Valley The 138 Um you've got some farm signs there
Um 139 You've got another example of temporary signs at a at a church And in the background you can see a changeable copy um monument sign [Music] Um 140 Now is that because the
changeable copy sign is actually where it's supposed to be because that's Palm that's the county's right away and these two are stuck out over the driveway where they're probably not really supposed to be Okay Yeah I mean this one looks very close to the
fire hydrants But once again they're they're temporary signs in in nature and you know um uh 140 um I was just seeing the same thing Where is that i've never seen that
sign Is it brand spanking new it is relatively new Yes Um and there just because it's it was the next one in line And the next picture hospital sign I offer doesn't mention building I no you notice that no
absolutely because it looks like you know and and that's one of the things sound like a sort of but that that's one of the things that we don't have require we should require yes for sure that's why it's there you know think the sign's
very nice but um 142 uh just the the next one uh along there And what you have here is most of these properties are actually I think currently zoned AR um the churches Yeah
we should put they put them in into institutional If you look at if you look at our zoning map they're they're still in the AR They're still in AR I think Um but we're not going to go back there because I am way beyond my time frame here Um we we
come to uh 143 uh which is Red Barn Um and Red Barn's actually it's it's a it's a commercial establishment It is zoned I want to say M it's like a MUPD Um Oh right
Mhm Um anyway uh we've got a number of signs at at Red Barn there That's their wall sign obviously That's their monument sign Um we've got this interesting
firewood sign Uh um this is sign on their their back building Come on now Once again this is I'm not doing this for for advertising What I'm saying is there's there's another wall
sign and really for instructional in nature different different use Um but a wall sign coming around the the corner Um we've got the the various lockache
irrigation signs there Um we got the Sherwin Williams um sign out front Um and the the out front that's been there forever The irrigation and well the sale signs Um
you've got a another for sale sign that's across the sign needs paint Well it's Yeah Um and then when you get to I'm up to page 150 and you see the
Sherwin Williams wall signs there Um and then parked in their parking lot is uh a truck with a Sherwin Williams uh sign Once again not to it's there to let you
know that this signage and how trucks can become signage and that would be probably very appropriate for it to be parking there Um 152 uh you've got a an approved site plan on
a commercial site that has been there for a very long time Yes it has Yes and and and this is there to once again show maintenance of signs as much as anything else Y um we come down uh along
Falsam and this these these series of signs are once again to acknowledge that in our AR we do have businesses that are not they're not farm businesses Um they
they do need some signage Um fence signage may or may not be appropriate but you know one could make an argument that it's okay But and and I think there's some maintenance issues there And I don't know whether the maintenance
issues have to do with whether or not these are non-conforming signs That's one of the problems when you if you have non-conforming signs And I as I said I'm not necessarily sure that those are non-conforming But if you do have non-conforming signs very often it is a
disincentive for people to upgrade their signs because as soon as they get into that they go "Oh now you got to adhere to all the rules." Well that costs more money and all those kind of things but wouldn't it be you know um a good idea to have non-conforming
signs that are uh maintained um and then one of the things that you can do is drive by and say "Okay well how many signs are appropriate?" Um and I am I'm up to page 158 maintenance Um and this is a town of
Lockahhatchee Grove sign Um seen better days Yeah I I I think so And uh you know um got to make sure that that's within our rightway Um but that's something that whether or not we make the town
adhere to the sign code Karen and I would advocate no we're exempt um because we have different needs from a sign code But that's one of the things that um you will uh be asked to consider
Um and this is kind of a reminder that maybe we need to step our signage game up for that And I don't know do we need to we don't we don't have all those meetings anymore Well just out of a pride thing Yeah I mean well not that
anybody's holding your feet to the fire to town council meeting that's erroneous information at present It may be coming back and and you know the future is the past but uh right I gotcha We need to
check those numbers and all those kind of things Um 159 uh we've got uh this is coming back down collecting canal Um we've got a summer riding camp um that's being advertised
with the temporary sign Um uh you'll see a bunch of sponsor signs out here Um another uh I'm on 161 for sale sign Um and in contrast to 162 a
different kind of forale sign Um and then we come to 163 Um and that's a sign The Wellington jump sign is a sign Um and 164 uh that was the sign you saw
um back at the at the um uh earlier um but it wasn't very really visible as to exactly the nature of it Um and it's on the animal hospital and that's back out on site
Okay taking up a lot of your time um appreciate the indulgence Uh I'm not sure if we want to how long you want to go Um discussing things There's other other folks that need to explain what they brought I really went through this
with the idea of getting you to think about signs notice signs drive around um and come back with an idea as to whether what you think is appropriate Not asking
you to make that determination tonight I want you to think about the the standards I think this community is different than a lot of communities And so signage that works in West Palm might not work here Um signage that works here
wouldn't work in West Palm Um and I'm going to keep quiet I think for a while because I have talked for a long time Um I will I will say that we need your help Um I think one of the things we need to
to consider um is how do we deal with temporary signage um and I'm not going to go back over them You've heard about that Um I think initially rather than focusing on the commercial
areas I'm going to ask you to focus on the AR and recognizing that there are businesses whether they be farm businesses or otherwise um think about whether or not some of our residential
uh we've got uh homebased business residential enterprises those kind of things Does it make sense or not make sense for them to to have signage right now not supposed to have signage out
front Um I want you to think about whether or not some of the signage that you know for example the the entranceway sign does that need to be confined to to farms or should uh non-farmers that own
an equivalent amount of property should they be able to have that kind of signage how many how many temporary signs um should there be recognizing that one of the things that go together um at least in my experience is that uh
real estate signs be to garage sales at some point in time Um and if you were only allowed to have one sign how do you have how do you sell your property and have the garage sale the the week or the month before and adhere to the sign code
um so think about those kind of things Think about how many times you should be able to have those temporary events um and signage and how long signage should be allowed to be out there Um but what I'd like for next time and I I
don't know if we want to wait a month to have another meeting or have it somewhat sooner Um but uh uh think about the AR first um rather than focus on on the
commercial for your homework assignment Well do you guys want to discuss having a second meeting a month do you think you think meeting more often i am too If we can get more done and get more to the council
Karen would like us to meet every week Well I think I think for this project we could do it with it does make some sense because you know next time I'm going to shut up and listen hopefully I mean
maybe if we can set a time as well I'm happy to meet meet weekly but I can't meet for three hours weekly Right No I don't think because you're going to need some time to go out So I don't think weekly is going to be an appropriate time frame right but maybe you know two
or three weeks depending on how much time and and maybe um um Jeff if you could maybe give them like a checklist that you want homework assignment on like the AR so they know what they're looking at so when they come back in That was going to be my next like just a
little homework assignment So that so that I mean because AR is a big that's a that's a big chunk That's a big chunk Yeah So you know concentrate on farm signs nursery signs residential signs I thought we couldn't regulate
farm signs You can't regulate Yeah So concentrate on what we want them to look like So if there's going to be a code throughout town that says it has to be built out of or no Um with farm signs that's going to be kind of tough but think about think about appropriate
think about appropriate materials Think about whether fence signs make sense Most jurisdictions won't have them but most jurisdictions don't have the size of properties that we have out here and the
extent of fence that we have And the other factor in that how limited our rights of way are putting a drive around and and say wow is it a good idea to have signs
temporary or otherwise in between the fence and the rightway Think about those things We are different um and uh uh the amount of signs and the and the
size the size of those temporary signs Um so go look at the real estate signs and you know see how big they have to be to be effective how you know where does your sensibility
get to the point where that's too big given the scale and context of the property Um it's very different and we should probably in the AR consider whether smaller lots which we do have in this town the quarter
acres they do exist should have a different signage uh regulation than the five and the 10 acre So if pla if placement's going to be a question then and it's 5 ft from the property line or
5 ft from the setback I don't remember which exactly it was you had written in there Um doesn't that preclude I doesn't eliminate a lot of those signs down Okachobee period unless it's hanging on a fence right
i mean some of the code that's going to go in not to do with the sign will already set up some of what kind of sign they can have won't it will it not as as far as placement
some somewhat I mean Okachobee Okchobee actually there's a lot of rightaway that the county has there Um you know so they're just putting those up at their own risk The county can come by and take them down anytime they want Yeah Okay And the question is whether or not uh we
want to pursue the county and encourage them to do that That's a that's a question administratively and and also for for you all to think about Um well then so then our goal is to try to give them somewhere else some other
way to advertise I mean because we don't want our little town businesses not to have a way of being known where they are but it should be at least safety wise and there's and there's businesses in other areas and you you all know where
the agurism businesses are You also can think about you know I know that they have an interest in having wayfairing signs or some something saying here's how you get to all the way up here above North Road and all those kind of things
Um and there is a mentality that wait uh cheap Yes you just put your you know you just put it on your phone Um but anyway those are things things for you to consider I don't want to short circuit
um the work that you both have have done You want to talk another time no another time is fine Yeah fine with me too So are we good do I um looking like we want to wrap it up do I have a motion to adjurnn uh one second
Oh Oh Oh yeah My bad Um we will the what are is there a day other than Monday that works for all of you monday This is Isn't this Monday
saturday's good No it's not No it's difficult Two weeks would be the 28th We have back in here Oh okay Yeah So Tuesdays also
work huh you asked "Is there another day?" Tuesday Tuesday works earlier on in the week Well other than the times that there's a town hall meeting right that's what we're going to have to So this two So Tuesday would be the other
day You mean for everybody not particularly good but it's not horrible What's the better day for you oh Monday is good That's well we we have we have other committees that meet on on Mondays So finding
Mondays is going to be more difficult than finding some other days and we're not I what we're going to do is we're going to take this back this information back and we're going to look at our calendars and all those kind of things and get in touch with you But if Thursdays don't work at all I don't want
to suggest that day If Tuesday is the next best day that gives us something to to work on when we take about Wednesday Wednesdays So it wouldn't interfere with the council meetings on Tuesdays Yeah Didn't we used to meet on Wednesdays i don't feel like we did That's stuck in
my head So I know Thursday have LGA right so yeah Wednesday were Wednesday's better for you Wednesday be better than Tuesday Then let's let's try confirm back with you that that Wednesday is reserved time Yeah And we'll look for it to be
uh uh 10 days to to two weeks or something along those lines Um what we will and is six o'clock always the time Does that is that give you enough time to take a break and get out of here and come back or is there day six earlier for us better is that the earliest you
can do it at 6 We can do it at 4:00 Yeah we we're easy We're here Yeah that'll be all right That'd be good Four o'clock Depends on the day but yeah Um Yeah once
Yeah we could probably do four o'clock feed the horses right we we'll check No we we will we will obviously check with Ryan Um so I think to earlier Yeah Um and what we're gonna
probably do next time is have you guys tell us more We're hopefully not going to give you a whole bunch of new paper to look at Yeah And you know you can take these homes and and study and say "What was he talking about?" Sounds good
Now motion to adjurnn Now it's a motion to adjurnn To adjourn Second All in favor i meeting ajourned Captain I feel as though I'm you know in some spaceship up
here Oh yeah Uh this