--------- You got the easement map, right? The trails? On my phone. You got it. I have it digitally. Not worried. I think it's always when you I'm going to call to order the Thank you.
May 21st, 2026 Roadway, Equestrian Trails, and Greenway Committee. Um can we all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, roll call. Committee member Katie Lakeman. Present. Committee member Jody Jansen. Committee member Darcy Dean Murray
is absent. Committee member Frank Sciola. Present. And then And then the fifth seat um is vacant. Public Works Director Craig Lauer. And then Assistant to the Town Clerk Gabriella Crossdale's present.
Okay, we have a quorum. So uh any additions, deletions, and or modifications to the agenda? I do have Oh. Here you go. I do have um one addition to the agenda. Just when we swear in Katie and Jody, if we can also, I don't
know if you guys would like to do it now since we are missing Darcy, but we have to reappoint a chair and a vice chair since we have new members. I mean, it's up to the board, whatever the the board wants to do. Okay, do you want to sign us I don't care. Do you want to sign us in or whatever, swear us in now? Yeah, but
then so do you guys would you guys also like to select the chair and vice chair as well? Well, by the time we get started I'm sure it'll be all right. Hopefully. Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot. We'll do it at the next meeting. If you guys would approve the minutes and then after that we can swear you
guys in. Do I have a motion to approve uh approve the minutes of the meeting or I'm sorry to grant for it to approve the agenda. Motion to approve the agenda as written. Do I have a second?
Second. Okay. Uh all in favor, I. All opposed, motion passes three to zero. Um approval of we have two minutes to approve.
Um first one is the 1 15 20 26 uh committee minutes. So, when someone's ready I can get a motion to approve that one. I'll make a motion to approve the 1 15 26
minutes. We have a motion. Do I have a second? Second. Motion and second. Um any discussion? Nothing. All in favor, I. All opposed, motion passes three to zero. Um now approving the 2 19 26
um minutes. I'll make a motion to approve the February 19 26 minutes. Do I have a second? Second. Okay. Any discussion? None. All in favor, all opposed, motion passes three to
zero. Great. Moving right along. Regular agenda, swearing in of new members. All right, Katie and Jody, you guys should have the oath in front of you. Um I'm going to read it out, but then you guys just repeat after me and please raise your right hand as well. So, I do
solemnly swear or affirm I do solemnly swear or affirm that I will support, protect, and defend protect and defend the Constitution of the government of the United States and of the state Constitution and government of the
United States and of the state and the charter of the town of Loxahatchee Groves. charter of the town That I am duly qualified to hold office under the Constitution of this state and the charter of the town of Loxahatchee Groves. That I am duly qualified to hold office
under the Constitution of the state and the charter of the town of Loxahatchee Groves. And that I will well and faithfully perform the duties of committee member upon which I am now about to enter. faithfully perform Okay, and then you guys are all sworn in and if you can just sign the oaths and
pass them over and I'll pick them up. No. Okay, moving on to regular agenda item number four. Discussion items road regarding roadway standards, pedestrian trails, and greenway connectivity for presentation of town council by the
chair of the RETAC committee. Frank. Good afternoon. Regular agenda number four. All right, so um we're looking first an item or what we can have the chairman himself bring the council that we went
and counsel them. Possibly you bring to them you say, "Hey, this is what we're looking at. What do we want council to approve or to appoint then a special committee to work on." Um in general it the council should be a or pointing items that that they should
have the committee working on directly. Um, we were kind of looking at trying to get each committee coming into the new council members, each committee come up with a list of items to present to council and say, "Hey, this is what we want." We're going to be like, "You know, what is your ideas and what would you like for us to work on?"
Instead of us kind of doing like a spitball thing where we're all trying to figure out what to work on. That's where we're trying to get where we want council to appoint us so we can get in a straight line what they want us to get to because overall, that's what the committee is a for. We're here to work on items that council
is supposed to push to us. So, we come up with the list and present it to council and then they Yeah, or well, whoever would be the chair then because we have to split where the chair and where the >> just so I get the general gist. So, we come up with the list, not the council
doesn't come up with the list. >> So, it's what we're trying to come up with a list Mhm. to get council to, you know, say, "Hey, this is our ideas as this council as this committee. This is our ideas. This is what we've come up with. This is our bucket. What would you like out of this bucket for us to
concentrate on?" Okay, this is doing a business wrong. I'm sorry. Oh, I got me. So, that's what we're looking for. Uh, we're pushing all committees forward as well, all committees to come up with something. Yeah. So, we're not all just spinning around and >> Yeah, and it and it it's kind of like I
feel like we I think it it you know, so we're not spending two minutes on this and Mhm. Yeah, I I would I would really like for council to give us a direction of which what they're wanting each committee to push to. And maybe even in an order, you know, somewhat of an order. >> Yes.
Correct. So, um, I don't know if you guys want to kind of throw some ideas out or you want to cuz we can put it all together as part of the minutes and we can present it to Frank and then, you know, the next meeting or if you want to put Frank on next meeting cuz it would have to be presented to all council members.
It couldn't just go to each one. We want all of them to come together so they can all talk about and say, "Hey, this is what we want the committees to work on." And they can only do that at a meeting, correct? They can only talk together at the meeting. As the same would be for you guys as well.
Correct. Like yes, ma'am. And And you got to remember that And the reason why I kind of put in there it's a roadway standards and it's a you know, just not we're not only going after trails. This committee is for roadways as well. So, it's I know the last
however many months we've been kind of like directing on um actual connectivity of the trails and everything, but I want us to kind of keep in mind we are for roadways as well, not just as the equestrian. Can you give me an example
of what roadway like I feel like the roads are kind of under control, Craig. Thank you very much. You're welcome. I mean, I just do, right? I don't You know, North Road Well, but it's better. Better. We spend a We spend a lot of time to try to fill all those holes. I mean, it's it's bearable to drive down
now. I drive a Camaro >> Um on it the other day. I drove on And then >> Yeah. I didn't panic like usually I go on my car. You're You're not the only one. I I do the same thing in a big work truck. Um so, I have been um directed by
council to give them a a price list of what the cost would be for staff to prep the road, to have a paving company come in and pave it in sections, or to have it a turn key a paving company comes in and just does
all the work. So, that is in the work in the works right now. I already have price contractors giving me pricing on what it would cost for you know, one or the other for us to do the work. What's the other For the 40th side? So, the The one
that's on North Road is the whole thing. Well, North Road is only that's actually the north side of the canal. The south side of the canal is 40th Street. Yeah. That is not That is North Road, isn't it? On North side of the canal is 40th Street.
The south side of the Yeah, everything on the south side of the canal is North Road. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, we're looking into it. And we're completely against doing millings or anything else like that. The problem with the millings is it's the same thing
as with the OGM. The OGM blows out everything else. It's kind of just putting a band-aid on it to kind of get it working. Um, we're trying to and I and I've been watching the Indian Trails as they've done a lot of their roads where they're doing I'm watching them, too. And I'm trying to I want to see the longevity.
The The roads they're doing don't get as much traffic as North Road does. So, I'm trying to watch it and see what the the longevity of those roads that they're doing right now to see how long they're actually lasting for a dead-end road. This is a through road with a lot of traffic on it. I um paid for OGM
roads for 10 years, by the way. I'm C Road person. You're what? I'm sorry. I paid for OGM for 10 >> Oh. cuz I live on C Road. Mhm. And I Okay, well, we own an excavating company. Let's put that out there. So, if they would have done the maintenance,
it would have been a whole 'nother story. I can't speak for them. No, no, I I'm just saying They're doing it one way and then >> Yep. Yeah. Mhm. Speaking of the roads, are the trees off the road part of the discussion?
Um, it it goes into trees that are growing into that So, if they're on town right-of-way, we are like A, if it's a road it's a tree on the right-of-way that's in town property, we have all the rights to remove it. Now, if it's trees growing into the right away, we are in the
process of actually I just today we are putting the process putting notifications together that we're going to note start notifying every single resident you have so many days to clear it. We sent that out uh last year we did the same thing. We sent it out to all the residents. I'd say probably 60%
went to it and actually, you know, took it. Other ones didn't. Now, um it's getting to a point now that we might start to start assessing the residents on hey, we got to come and do the work, you're going to get assessed for the the work if you don't, you know, you're pretty much you're going to get notification. You don't do it, it's
going into code. You're getting NOV. It shouldn't be the town spending the money to clear your your tree line that's growing into the roadway, cuz that's what it said to you. >> Okay, scenario and of course it's on my road cuz that's the only one I noticed lately. But if the road if the tree is coming
over it, right? And it's hitting my horse trailer, that's still impeding my >> Yes, ma'am. Um it's so many I think it's 14 ft up from the edge of road straight up 14 ft that it has to be cleared. One one thing that that uh we talked about when we first
started started this group back up was on Okeechobee putting some sort of barrier fencing or something like that so that people that are riding on the south side not only their horses, but walking or
their bicycles if a car inadvertently goes out that it's it's uh slows them down or stops them and that pretty much fell by the wayside because we didn't get the funding for it, but I would like to put that back on there and at least try to get some funding for it at least
matching grants so that we can we can do that. But that's an important area. That's Yeah, that's If they go off the road there, they hit a person, a bicyclist, or a horse and a rider, and there's major injuries. The The only issue with this is is that it's county's property, county's road.
Um we can implement to the county that we want it. Um the county is doing a 5-year research on that road right now. So, that's in their plans. They put it out in the public saying they're doing a research on that road. What they're going to do with the road, we don't know, but they're doing a
research on that road. >> on it on that road ever since I lived out here. >> Yeah. So, I mean, that was in their like >> changes on it. They've paved it once in the 30 years I've been out here, 30-plus years. Um Good to hear. >> To do any modifications to the property,
it's we can give the suggestion to the county. It's we can't go and you know, it's just like I can't come to your property and put a fence across your property. Oh, you can come to my property and fence off my property. I've got no problem with that. >> [clears throat] >> So, so we're just going to ignore them to be
for right now? I don't know what we're doing. >> They They just did that grant that the um Sluggett prop or Sluggett went through and they pushed for a grant and they We got turned down for it. For the grant for the crossing? For Yeah. And you got turned down? Mhm.
Yeah, the last that I heard that we were turned down for that, we didn't get that grant. I was afraid of that. Yeah, cuz I put it That was one of the reasons why we got all the horse crossing sign, you know, all the the piggybacks and everything. So, we
were ready to go for it. So, do we need to um do we need to have a list to give to you, send it to you individually by email or whatever, so that >> Yeah, we'd prefer that if you guys come up with your list, we can put them together. Um And then at the next meeting
>> At the next meeting, we can condense that list saying, "Hey, this You know, I can put it We can I won't We won't say who put what list." Yeah. We'll put a combined list together. We'll condense it down, and then we'll put it together for Frank to present to council and say, "Hey, this is where we're we're looking
at. This is ours. What would you like us to move forward with this?" Grab a water. Need water? I actually do. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm glad I went and got some today. So, we'll do that. We'll send that to email to Craig. >> Thanks. And um
just email it to him and not to anybody else and on the board and we're on the council and Yeah, just make >> Then we'll still like we'll condense Thank you. We'll condense it at the next meeting and get the top three or four
things to present to council. Okay. Um any other discussion on agenda um number four? So, moving on to agenda number five, discussion regarding the naming of and designation of trails for presentation
by the chair of the RETAG committee to the town council. Craig, you're up again. All right. So, this is one of the things that we spoke about before. We want to name the trails. Right. Um I know we want to name them. I know we have a lot of
equestrians across council. Um I think it should be names we come up um and that we can I can myself or, you know, Frank would want to in his original like we can present to council and see, "Hey, this is the naming we're going to come up with. Are you cuz they
have to agree to say, "Hey, this is what we're going to go with." Um Are they trails or multi-purpose trails? So, What are you calling them? Everything is a multi-purpose trail. Yeah. So, we don't actually have designated
horse trail. It they're all designated multi-purpose trails. I understand. Yeah, that's all. And not treat them as trails because if know, we start getting cute and generic and here these people walking there and you know what that is. I mean, it's just
Or if you name them after people, you know, whatever, then it's >> That was somebody in my zone. Yeah, so well, not only that, but you but yeah, if you name them after people, then people's feeling could hurt about well, wait a second, I think I did, you know, this guy did more than this guy did. >> And I I
I definitely have to have Loxahatchee Groves on there. Loxahatchee Groves Turtle something, maybe, I don't know. Yeah, cuz I mean, I wouldn't say cuz like I know across street, they went with colors. And I wouldn't want to say go colors cuz then it would be counter I'd actually do I would have to >> with theirs if somebody says, "Hey, I'm
on orange trail." Where in Wellington are you on orange trail? I thought we were supposed to be in Loxahatchee cuz all the Wellington are based off colors. >> more like animals and and you know, do animals that are pretty much out here in Loxahatchee Groves, you know. I like owl, panther.
>> Right, foxes and stuff like that. Oh, we we're given permission from the Solar Sport um that we can name their trails. Back there as long as they they say they would agree for us to name their trails. Remember um Miss
That. Diane Jenkins came in and thank you. She came in and said she had no problem with us naming her trails. They did go and clean up all the trails. I don't know if you saw. I I had her go in >> every week, Greg. >> Yeah, thank you. I I walked I walked the whole thing. I walked it and I took pictures. Oh, me, too. And I And I was
sitting there as I was taking pictures, I was sending it to her. And we also don't we have like, you know, F Road? Yeah, we have all of F. You have the high I mean, if you wanted to leave the high park trail, the high park trail. >> the high park trail. You have the North Road, the other side of North Road. That's actually designated, so
um you know, I think there's probably seven or eight trails right off the top of my head that you know, could you know, be actually named other than the Solar Sports Trail or the C Road Trail. So, Miss Jody, that cuz you're have been on the committee before, my plan is
all canal banks like how F road is it's towns it's towns right away. We can name them. We can make we can designate them. We just have to go through and have counsel here we're going to designate these. My plan is is all those are going to be designated horse trails. So just like how we designated F road
all the way down I want to designate every single one of those canal banks as one. But we would we're trying to get so we can get connectivity from one one main road to the next. So if you would leave my house you could go down to Gruber and then go across there. Yeah.
So like you like a Gruber's a cut through but if we could be down Right. One of the things we're trying to figure out is is like some of these big horse properties um if they would give up a 15 foot for a trail to go from C to B. Almost like they do over on the beach
where they have a beach access between patios. Yeah, I mean that's a lot of like Wellingtons all them properties on the back sides they have all the horse trails going they're all connected all behind. They it's like a maze back there.
Yeah. But didn't that maybe town of Wellington put up a fence? Yeah, so there's a fence going around same thing we did we made sure there was a fence alongside on High Park. There's a fence going through there. Um that's it we're trying to see if we can
get the connectivity. I'm just trying to catch you up. Like so we are kind of reaching out trying to talk to some property see if they would give that and it would be a connect You could go right through there with >> Yeah, I mean that would be a thing if we asked them everything the property would have to give the easement.
>> has have they been addressed or you >> That that property owner has and he has said flat no. We've asked him he's he said no. I think it's South Place. Just built it. So, you know, same thing like before, we'll just come up with with names and
email video and then we can Yeah, um a group of names. I mean, even if you I mean, horse breeds. A lot all the streets in Wellington here are draft horse. Mhm. Oh, yeah.
I was trying to just throw Right. Yeah, we'd have to come up with something with like the solar sport area cuz that doesn't have anything. Wellington. Mhm. >> cuz if somebody calls, say they call the fire department and say, "Hey, I'm on Turtle Trail." Well, you know, if they
said, "I'm on the the red trail." or "I'm on this." they would you know, it would be a little bit of a you know, it sort of gives us that chance to to actually set ourselves apart from everybody else around us. Yeah. But whatever at the end of the day, whatever the the committee decides to
do, I'm good with it. Okay. So, I'm going to give you a little homework to think about. So many trail but I just want to make trail names. Yeah, I haven't thought of doing And any discussion on further discussion on agenda number five?
Yeah, I'm just trying to move us along because we have to be done by Six, I know. >> by 5:45. Yeah, they're trying they would like to get in here to reset everything. Yeah, the staff that needs to reset up the whole room after So, uh Number five, do you have anything else to say about that? We're just going to
come up with names, right? Yep. And send them same thing, send them over to Craig and and just to him and to nobody else and um So, we're moving on to regular agenda number six, discussion regarding connectivity between the Aldi trails and the park
system, including potential bridge additions to additions at trail crossings along Folsom Road and G Road near Madison Green. I went there, Greg, to the one by um Madison, where you go down to the end of
>> Yeah, we have we haven't cut that fence open yet. I could get along. At the corner of Madison and the um But I have I have a very good horse. Okay. No, no, no. So, are you talking about I mean, you got to go very close to the canal to get there. >> Yeah, cuz there's like a bunch of posts
sitting there. Yeah, so we're looking to take all those posts out so we can open it up. That much. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I didn't go through it, but I I got them enough in where I could see that you could if you had to. You know the whole thing is, you have a
great horse, but all it takes is a is a bird flying out or something like that to spook him. Next thing you know, the horse and rider are in the canal. right next Yeah, so my plan was is I was going to put an actual equestrian fence Oh, no, I won't. around that bank, so you would have fence posts, equestrian
fence, so you'd be able to walk in between them, and the fence would keep the horse, you know, give the horse some um closure, I would say. Yeah, boundaries of saying, "Hey, there's something here. I'm not going to go that way. If I have to, I'll go this way." Okay. No, I did ride down there.
So, yeah, that we're trying to trying to get to where you guys can connect and get around and get to where you get more areas to ride around in. So, the Olde Trail connecting to this park over here. I know we brought that up last few meetings. Yeah, remember you told me you went
across the bridge and stuff. >> the bridge, and you know, then You said you were going to get you were going to fill us in on how the the trail the ride went. It went fine. There was a guy working on the lights, and he stopped, and everything was wonderful. But again,
you You I've lived out here a long time. I know people aren't going to slow down. Many people don't know that. So, ideally would be a bridge, but bridges are expensive, correct? >> Mhm. Yes, ma'am. >> if we had a bridge that just went from 6th Avenue South, I think it's called.
It's Victory. Whatever it is. Yeah, 6th. >> Across to a on the to you know, where >> Where the the forestry is? So, you're talking about where forestry is at right there and and actually that would be good cuz >> We hook right into that and you ride
down to the trail through the bollards and then at least have a flashing light that you can hit a button. You have to So, that that would be my suggestion that the easier cheaper way for the town would to put a um
pretty much horse crossing flashers at the um where public works is bridge is. Bridge doesn't Yeah. across that bridge. Um that that would be the much easier something that we could get done quicker. But to try to put in a bridge right
there and that's our main feed of water, so we'd have to make sure we'd have a double pipe there. It would it would cost a significant uh bridge that section of that canal right there. And I can tell you that thing would would be, you know, north of $150,000 to put that in. And I feel like
if there was blinkers, you know, flashers >> The the flashers, yeah. that people would start realizing, "Oh look, maybe a horse is going to cross here." Yeah, unfortunately now they're like, "Oh, what are you doing?" Yep. That was, you know, that's one of the things that that I'll bring it up is like so we can know
where we're wanting to put these signs cuz we're going to go, you know, horse crossing ahead, horse crossing, you know, vice versa the other way. And then we're going to go off of actually we pulled the engineering plans of Wellington and we had actually put a horse crossing marker across street and
then you would rough grind the road. So, it wouldn't be a slick road. It'd have somewhat of rough grind to it. So, you when you walk across a horse you'd have some kind of grip on it. I just realized the other day that you actually use aluminum horseshoes. Some do. Yeah, I we found one on the
road the other day and I picked it up and I was like, "Wow, this thing's This isn't the old steel ones we used to see back in the day and use." On that note, are they going to make the cross button go the other way by helping? We You know, there's only one, right?
You Oh, yes. Yes, ma'am. So, we're actually going to have to We're going to replace the whole system over there. Yeah, we're we're looking >> they pushed the button, but it doesn't work well. Yeah, we're going to replace that whole system once we get going. Starcy just
texted me. And then you also that you know, the trail crossing is long and full of road and and um G road. Um so, Miss Starcy says she's not going to be able to make it. She has uh some car issues and she's apologized to everybody for not being able to make it.
That's on G road. She's right. Yeah, it says G road here, but yeah, the Oh, no, I'm just like >> Yeah. Just like me and the sixth floor. Yeah. Yeah, that that the G road was a whole that whole area where we put the new pipe in. That's that new crossing there. Um I know Miss
Starcy had had mentioned about wanting to try to put another crossing down on E road in the down in that corner at down by E road um that's another thing that's it'd be very costly for us to try to cross one there as well. You might be able to get Erm to go in
with that if if the other one starts going out, that bridge is that they put in the ready. It's wood and it's it's probably 10 years old by now. Yeah, we're um Erm is very not very supportive of the
horse trails and the horses, so Okay, no. trying to get them to ask them to put another one in. I doubt it would happen. Just my honest opinion. >> they needed to replace that bridge, they would have to come to the water control district get the permit. They just can't >> Correct, yeah. They can't put it in there. >> can't remove it and they can't put
another one in unless we give them a permit. So that's the time to sit Sit that you make the deals right there. Yeah, we I mean cuz we have our standard to be we would recommend that they'd have to put it into our standards, a new pipe. And yeah, they're not very um
IRM is not conducive with with uh large animals. They'd rather have nobody in their areas at all. Correct. And that defeats the whole purpose of of having those large areas there, but Yeah, it's it's going basically going to
the county commissioner. And and talking to them about it, but um but yeah, uh can we also wherever we have a actual like bridge, for example, the uh public works bridge um and if we're going to be doing a
crossing there to put up the flashing, you know, lights for horse crossing, any place where we already have a you know, some place that has a bridge that's connecting that can be a use as a connecting trail if it's not you know, like the one on C Road. That's that's basically that's a a bridge for
the horses and anybody else who wants to cross it, but no cars can cross it, but every place else where we have that where it's it's a multi-use bridge, I guess, if we can have those there, so anybody on horse can add them and all that and hopefully somebody see a flash and go, "Oh, I should do something."
Yes, it would be it for both directions. Correct. Okay, so I'm going to bring up something. You know, um North Road between E and F where the road is like this wide.
Is that ever going to get like fixed, changed? I don't know. They just won't give any easement. Okay. Well, the only other thing to do is to and you know, there's two things to do. Once you could you could do like they did on A Road and you can push more dirt into the canal, but the canal becomes
very small after that or the more expensive thing is you as you put concrete pipe in and you bury it and then that opens up that you know, you can make the road over there, but then again, you're talking a couple of million dollars to do this.
Yeah, they they did Pearson, yeah. That's Pearson Road. Oh, okay. Yeah, right there by their public works. We purchased And we purchased some. Yeah, do we have a list? So, we know what we're talking about.
I'm Southern Land and Timber. Yes. Do we have a list of those trails >> So, so what we what the list is we got from Southern Land and Timber from Southern Land and Timber is the roadway list. So, that would be the 60 ft. Um there's there's certain areas of from
from the lumber company was the roadways. That would include canals in that 60-ft easement. That would be a we're not easement, right-of-way. There's a big difference. Um so, that Just certain areas? So, yeah, that would be, you know, the main roads A Road,
North Road, all the road the main roadways was from there, but then we collected easements from homeowners over the past couple years. We've been selling trying to collect new easements like we did on A Road. We've got probably 95% of the easements down A Road to give us, you know,
so we can widen that road. I don't know if you've been down the road yet, but it's a whole lot different than what it was a year ago of widening it. What we're getting is just talking about on North Road that we we don't it's very narrow Mhm. and the property owner won't give us
easements. Correct. Isn't the road and not in the proper place anyway? Like, doesn't the easement actually go to where the FPNL's are or bass? Some of them do, some of them don't because some of the properties actually have a
utility easement to FPNL. But they there's not that utility easement doesn't go to the town. It's designated just to FPNL. Same thing for the one you were asking from 161st 62nd. That's a utility easement to Palm Beach County for water utilities. That's not to the town.
So that's des- There's some of them are designated to certain utility departments. Just not to the town. That's why when we look back at old easements from 20 years ago, it says the easement in there. You know, like some of these historical ditches that, you know, "Hey, can you
come fix it?" Like like we said about the one by yours. There's an easement there, but it's not dedicated to the town. It was just It was there. So if we can get it dedicated to the town, then the town would be able to maintain it and take care of them. Other than that, we can't go on and we can't push onto the
properties. Any more on the on this agenda item? Are we on six, sir? Yes. Good. Moving on to seven, update on the North Road trail project. All right. So this is I'm everything's for me.
Um we are pushing right now we're almost done with with A road. Staff is almost done with A road. Um I already hired a have our tree contractor. He's coming out um closer towards Miss Jody's property or well,
she lives on that corner of that little North Road right there. There's a bunch of pine trees that by the power lines. I I'm having the contractor to come out. We're going to drop all those. So we're going to start working on that trail going down removing all the trees down it. Once we get all the trees removed,
then we're actually going to come down and grade, and then we're going to cut a straight thing all the way down the whole line. Um I've already researched every property actually has the easement to it. Um we all the the weird thing about it is is that when they built that road, they built the
road in the wrong place. Correct. The road is 20 ft to the south when it's supposed to be up against the fence lines. The horse trail is supposed to be along the actual canal bank. That it's 100% that's where it's supposed to be. Yet, when they built the road, they did it the wrong place.
So, it's one of the things that we've spoke with council about this, and it's it's easier for us to build the trail by the fence line than it is to rebuild the entire road and shift everything over and then try to rebuild the trail. It's just the cost of rebuilding two
different things at one time. It just doesn't seem feasible for the town at where we're at budget-wise. So, the easiest thing is is we're just going to clear the fence line. We're going to put the horse trail alongside the fence lines. Yeah. So, you would look at um Yes, we I mean, it'll be marked out, and
then, you know, hey, you can't park there. If we have to have the sheriff come out and we have to tag them, you get an orange tag on your window. You're you know, you can't be parking there. Where you you were almost talking about the fence line coming close, um the ones that come closer to the canal bank are the ones that don't have
a roadway easement or an ingress and egress. So, that's where the trail would come down against the fence, and then it would shift out towards the canal where the actual real horse trail is. And then, it would shift back over around the roadway again. There there are three culverts on that on that roadway that we're going to
replace. Um the one that comes from yours, your drainage ditch, it comes way out. And if you look, it comes to here and the actual easement's back here. We're going to pull it, extend that pipe all the way back to the easement so the
the trail just go straight through. No, because we we already have all the pipes. Um it it's one of the things that we're going through and it's like today when I just left C Road, there's a culvert culvert pipe collapsing. They're old,
they're rotting. Um it's another gives us another opportunity for the town to go replace some of these pipes so we don't come into an emergency like we did today where we're ripping the whole road out and Yeah, so if the if those pipes are still good, we're just going to extend off of them.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So Yeah, yeah. Um the you know, we're trying to give you the trail. The trail's already designated for the actual residents. So if we can we'll we'll pull the pipes, we can extend them, we're just going to extend them. Without pulling the whole
thing, if we can say, "We can put it at a 15-ft piece to it, we're going to add a 15 instead of ripping it out." Yeah, they have couplers you can you can connect them all together. Mhm. What road you all talking about? Mhm. Um there was never any the easement was a
district right-of-way easement to get to get to that side of the canal to maintain it. Mhm. And when people were being sold their homes, they weren't being told by the realtors or the former land owners that, "Hey, you actually don't have the legal access
here. You have to build a The there there was one there was one property that's um I believe it's right across from the 147th Road where that homeowner actually did not have a legal access in his property. He had to
put his own culvert pipe in. Yep, he had to put his He had to put his own culvert pipe in. So, I mean yeah. There are some of those out there, yeah. Um I don't know if you've seen the North South Road. We did put a whole We put a bunch of the slow horse signs all the
way down the whole thing. Um for the North South, we started at um G East. Put in a or two right there, two at G West, F Road, and then put them down at E as well. So, we can We lined the whole road with, you know, slow for horses.
And then all of North Trail, I don't know if you noticed all the yellow horse trail signs we put all the way down that thing. Yeah, we put a bunch of them down at a lot all the way down the whole thing. Mhm. I'm in dispute with them right now about them using the roadway.
So, we're We're working on that as well. Okay, nothing to report on that this month. Move on to number eight. Update on solar support. I kind of jumped on it a second ago. Um we did get them. They're very in compliance with us helping clean the
clean the trails and everything. Um one of the things that we haven't got to yet that we You guys did give us direction on is putting the tie up. Rope. Correct me cuz I know I'm wrong. The the horse tie rail. Hitching post. Hitching post. See? Look, there you go. I know
water be amazing, but down the road. I mean, I don't expect her today. It'll be a while at this point. Mhm. Yeah, the the water thing would be a whole would have to have She said she will. Yeah. Got to be a little bit of there. Yeah, I would I would probably say it's going to take a while until they get actually I
mean they'd have to have some kind of pump system float system and somebody have to go out there maintain it to make sure >> windmill out there. You don't need any power there and and then you have the snow overflow. A solar pump? Yeah, or solar pump, yeah.
You know the pump and hand pump? Yeah, the the hand wells. Okay. But still got to dig, you know, I mean I get it. She's good. Right. She's very good. She's very easy to work with. Um That's probably about it. They know I had I mentioned about we had them clean
it and everything. Um please if you're in those trails, I know you guys go in there much more than we do. If you see anything, please send me the texts or the emails of you know, you're seeing garbage or anything. Um she's very low staffed with you know, maintenance in there. So she did ask
hey, if you see anything, you know, let us know. You see it. One thing I just want to add to that real quick is I have seen in the last 2 weeks two dirt bikes in there. Okay. So it was going really well, you know, without any.
And then, you know, that they slowly see that nobody's patrolling it which you can't, you know, have to patrol it all the time, but so they're starting to pick back up on bringing the dirt bikes. Okay. Yeah, I can mention that to her cuz she would be have the one to contact SO
and we can't trespass them. It would have to be her. She would have to ask the sheriff department to trespass their property. Okay, any more on the on solar sports? So we're moving on to committee member comments. Start off
to my right with Jody on the end. I have any comments? I don't. Oh, I did want to ask to see if all the nice Australians On the side of the road on the Are you? Yes. We We were trying to cut work on trying to clear all the Australian pines
down by you guys. Those ones that were falling in the roadway. Yes. I don't really have any comments either, but thank you, Craig. It's really changed a lot and I appreciate that. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Um Craig, I got three um three comments.
They're really quick. First of all, I saw on Facebook today where somebody's parking a large uh forklift right at the uh end of at North Road and F Road on the easement side and their their whole intent is apparently
blocking horses from going accessing, you know, that part of of F Road. Um there's an orange and white a very large uh front end loader. They had a picture of it. I tried to save the picture to send to you, but You said it's on that Facebook site? Yeah. Okay.
>> It was on the the town the unofficial The unofficial one? Okay. And the second one they they brought up also was on C Road where the bed and breakfast is, South C Road. Mhm. Um they're saying that there's a blockage over there's people They're putting stuff over there on the easement so that
people cannot use that easement to ride their horses. So, if you can look into both of those and you know, if that requires a visit from code enforcement or if you can We'll do that. >> talk to them, maybe they'll, you know, see the light and if not, then you know, maybe it's going to be a a code enforcement issue because that's
actually anything with the with the um with the district right-of-ways, that's the the town can be the complaint for the code enforcement because that's actually The complaint becomes me. >> And the third thing that I had wanted to um to uh put out there and um and this is
basically for for all of the um all of the committees um that it would be nice, in my opinion, to have, you know, each committee member can get a town of Walkers extra small shirt. That way we won't come to the meetings if you want to wear them. You know, and um
I know it's something that's a that's a the council would have to approve that, I guess. >> Mhm. You know, I think for like for us for uh planning and zoning for the um um financial advisory, you know, stuff like that. I mean, we're all put you know, giving our time and everything to
do this. And it would you know, be nice to have a shirt and have the shirt on for like us re-tag, you know, on there or something like that. So. And that's pretty much it. So, um our next meeting uh they have a number nine, June 18th.
How is that for everybody? I'll show mine. State state. What's that? It's a state horse show. Oh. So, do we want to have it earlier, later? Yeah, either works for me.
Someone said, let me get to here. Um so, instead of the 18th, do you want to do it either the 25th or the 11th? It it's your call, whatever one you want to have. Um it would be Miss Gabby has to check the schedule. Yeah, she has to see if there's other meetings or
>> Off the top of my head, I just have to see when other committees and stuff meet. I think the 25th should be good tentatively, but I can email you guys again to like make sure. >> Let's tentatively look at the 25th and we'll wait for an email from Gabrielle and um
Okay. So, do I have a motion to adjourn? Motion to adjourn the meeting. I'll second. Second. Okay. And we're out of here before 5:50. Thank you, guys.
I like when these meetings move along really good. We have a really good system here. Yeah, I like it. It's going good. Part: 2
the comments and all that good stuff. So on the non one agenda item agenda item non- commented. So >> we have non agenda items. >> Yes. Yes. All the
>> the protocols. So, calling this uh town council special meeting for the town of Lakachi Groves, May 21st, 6 p.m. Call to order. Pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence. >> To the flag of the United States,
to the stands, one nation, liberty and justice for all. Thank you. And town clerk, roll call, please. >> Council member Stevens, >> here. >> Council member Kaine, >> present.
>> Member Coleman, >> present. Vice Mayor Sud, Mayor El Reiney, >> present. >> Acting town manager Oath >> present. >> Um, special counsel Janica Simpson >> present.
>> Thank you. Uh, additions, deletions, and modifications. >> Well, we can only have this for one purpose, right? >> I mean, we can't give direction on anything afterwards, right? Correct. Yes. So, >> yeah. >> All right. Uh, I need a motion to accept
the agenda. >> Motion to approve the agenda. Thank you. >> Second. >> Motion to approve by council member Kaine, second by council member Coleman. All those in favor? >> I I >> opposed hearing none. Motion passes 40.
Okay. Do we have any comments >> non-aggenda items? >> Yes, madame mayor. We have Robert Austin for Robert Austin. Actually, this is I went to the CN meeting today about the airport noise and we are going to get a noise monitor of it. But the bad news is
the uh airport expanded the runway. They're making two main runways. Now they got a $20 million grant that's going to start soon. It's going to last a year and it'll be used in their cross runway which means a lot of the monitor puts traffic back down to like when I move down 95 system. So
hopefully they'll let us have it when the traffic comes back to the main runways again especially when they're going to be doubling up the runways more traffic and more noise more collision. So we'll see. just let you know they g be putting them on the online.
>> Can I ask him about Yeah. >> So I I just want to be clear on what you said. So there's going to be some kind of construction of an additional runway for some period of time a year or two years and during that time we will be blissfully quiet but then beyond that and you'll have the monitor but then
beyond that we'll get back to potentially worse. How long will the monitor be in your >> Today the meeting they said on the property about how long have mention that to it'll be kind of useless on a year is
here right for a year >> right okay I was just wondering if there's a way you can say can you wait to put the monitor in there till after the construction is over >> okay >> those are all in place two portable ones
But I don't know how long. So I'll let you know. But by >> Thank you for doing this. >> Well, and I apologize for not getting back with you. I I had had a few things in the air. I thought of you as as a plane came over earlier this afternoon and did whatever that maneuver is where
they kind of power down and then power back up. I was like, that's what he's talking about. Is it hear it screaming? Yes. Over the >> the property. >> That's the weight is not my turn maneuver. That might >> Wait, it's not my turn. >> You're You're coming in too fast. Don't hide. >> Hold it. Hold it locks at your grooves, please.
>> Too hot, Maverick. It's too hot. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Oh, we lost her. >> Are there any other public comments? >> Non-aggenda items. >> No. >> Okay. So, it is 6:05. So, hopefully he'll be walking through the door momentarily.
So, The vice mayor is two minutes out. Two minutes out. Um any updates um on anything that uh would be coming back. Uh maybe Anita, I know you've had a couple meetings I think with your
committee. >> I believe it's on the June 2nd agenda. >> Okay. We'll be seeing that. Okay. Nothing to update. I I I know we're not really whatever. Um remember we had spoke about closing off um locks had you have.
>> Yes. >> Right. Um I would like to see if we could give some direction to move forward with sending those residents a letter >> giving them till not the June meeting but the July meeting. >> Right. To come to come to the July meeting and state >> whether they're for against whatever.
That way just give them an opportunity instead of just shutting their road off. I've talked to a couple um and they're all for it. It's like Grand Central Station downtown Tangerino. So, 18-wheelers, the whole nine. >> So, you know, I if we could just because I think they've uh I think staff has
been working together to come up with a plan for the closure and how to do it. >> Um but yeah, if we could get get some direction or consensus that we could let them move forward sending a letter, you know, so we give them like 30 days to be able to schedule and come to the meeting. >> We'll do that at the end. Yeah,
>> because we've got council comments. So, Paul, keep that thought. And then, Anita, do you want to tell them now when that that meeting is on the traffic? >> It's the Bellglade one. >> God, I don't have my piece of paper with me. It's >> June
June 30. Was it >> June 19th? June 16th, something that sticks in my bra. >> I'll have it for the June 2nd meeting. I had it in front of >> because I know we did it right at the end last time. I've been announcing it every time. >> I think it was toward the end of the month, wasn't it? >> Yeah. I thought it was like the 6 and
8th or 26. Either the 26 at 8 or the 28th at 6 or something. But I I've got >> And what is it called? >> It's for the master plan. >> Transportation master. >> Transportation master plan. Yeah. It's it's it is the only opportunity for the
western communities to get there. >> And is it on the um >> for the public in the western communities to get give their input? Do you know where it might be in the county website? Is there do you know where they're publishing? >> I'm I'm sure it's probably somewhere in
transportation. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I could find that out if people need to see it in black and white or something. >> Town uh homepage. >> I did ask for it to be put on the town homepage at the last meeting. I'm not sure whether it was or not, but I did ask that and maybe they can put the link
in when they do that, but I will get provide the link. >> Okay. Thank you. All right. Um note for the record that the vice mayor Sud has arrived. Thank you. So uh this is a single uh agenda meeting, special
meeting, and I will send it over to special counsel Simpson to update us on what she has heard back from the the parties on. >> Yes. Um good evening everyone. Oh, this mic's great.
Um so by way of recap from our last meeting um we were at a bit of a standstill with negotiations because we had not heard back from the town manager's council. However, um the following day, I did receive an email from him advising that the town manager
would be rejecting our counter offer. And at that time, she also proposed that her final counter offer would be um 16 additional weeks of leave uh payment of her unused PTO, which we already
discussed that she's entitled to whether she's terminated with or without cost. and also um she wanted to have the payment of her um unused FSA balance. Um I spoke with the acting town manager to
determine whether you know the council has the authority to you know agree to such a term as far as the FSA balance is concerned but that is where we are currently with negotiations. >> Thank you. So I would open the floor to
conversation and discussion at this point from council. So I guess I'll go first. So that seems to be the So again, I'm interested in doing the thing that I think is uh a the most
fiscally responsible and b that ends this for us and for the former town manager. Um, and so I think that we should just go ahead and make a motion
and pay out the contract because I think that the cost of litigating is actually going to be considerably more than $100,000. Um, >> I did have a conversation with council
earlier today and confirm that. Um I did I was surprised that um she doesn't feel that we would be responsible potentially for the other legal bills. So that was a good thing. Um but I think that paying the six I
think it was 68 Val 68 was that the number >> or what are you looking at for the 16 weeks? I think that >> it was $50,76.96 for 16 weeks. >> Yeah. I think that paying out $50,000
to have this be settled tonight. Um as opposed to paying out a h 100 plus,000 plus whatever whatever our total is at now. I think it was at what $6,000 at our last meeting. I'm sure it's more now um with
this firm that as far as um being responsible with the taxpayer dollars that uh the move is to go ahead and terminate the contract without cause and pay out the 16 weeks. >> So, is that a motion? >> I'll be happy to make a motion. Uh, I
make a motion that we terminate the contract without cause and that we uh pay the 16 week severance. Okay. I think that's all I and that I I'm not sure how to handle council if you can advise me. I'm not sure how to handle that last
part of it. The that you're >> What is the FSA anyway? >> That's the retirement. >> Oh, >> um I thought that was already all paid in advance. I thought I thought it was >> a health savings account. >> It's a health savings account.
>> Yeah. That you can draw on for different medical things. >> Oh, so so it's something that she would have put money into. >> I I think >> Yeah. So she currently has a balance of $929.73. Um we did speak with our insurance
broker, the Garing Group. Um they explained that FSA is a benefit that is COBRA eligible. Um, a current participant may elect to continue coverage under COBRA, which is generally recommended when there is significant unused balance remaining. If
continuation coverage is not elected, any remaining balance is typically forfeited in accordance with plan provisions, which she does not um receive our health insurance. She has that through another. >> Okay. So forfeiting the 920 whatever
dollars and so I'll add to the motion forfeiting that as per the advice of our insurance broker. >> Second >> um I'm sorry I don't understand the forfeite. Can you explain that again?
>> That they lose the amount. So if use it or lose it in a sense. >> Thank you. She's on Medicare and not on the health insurance anyhow. Right. She's not gonna want to go into co. >> I know we gave her $15,000 for healthare. So, >> right. >> Interesting to know she's in Medicare
>> while she's in >> assume she is. >> And while she's entitled to the PTO, would you mind just adding that to your motion, please? >> The PTO that that she's entitled to. >> Thank you. >> And I again second. >> Thank you. >> Okay. We've got a motion by council
member Kaine to accept the 16week um proposed uh severance and the the PTO that is due and forfeerture of the FSA and a second by council member Coleman. And we have Vice Mayor Sud's light on.
>> Your light is on. Speak. >> All right. Uh could you tell me with this motion how much dollar amount are we going to give to this town manager? What is the dollar amount please? >> Yes.
Okay. So, for 16 weeks of pay, this is not including her administrative paid leave, um, which is $50,76.96. The PTO balance is $23,290.33.
The total amount would be 73,36720. >> My friends are proposing to give her $73,000 at this minute. Okay. I have some questions for uh our special counsel. Can I would you please come here so residents can see your face? That'll be
good. Good idea. If you don't mind. Thank you. >> Excuse me. Do you want to sit at the table? Do you have more room? >> Why is this necessary? >> Well, this is my comment. >> I understand your comment, but it's not your meeting. You don't control everybody in the room. So,
>> I'm asking her question. >> I understand that, but she was perfectly fine sitting there. >> She is kind of hard to see behind. >> I understand that, but I >> At what point does that matter? >> I was saying sit this way so people can see you. >> That's okay.
>> That's okay. Sorry. fun. All right, I'm going to ask you some questions, but just for the record, did I send you any of my questions that I'm going to ask you in advance? >> No. >> Good.
So, we are the elected stewards of this town, this council. And did we follow the due process to offer something to this former town manager? Did we follow the due process
to do everything your investigation, all the things you did? Did did you follow the did we follow the due process? >> Yes. >> Uh did anybody from our council tell you to go after the town manager, find
something to sue her? Did anybody ever instructed you? >> No. >> Okay. If your letter says to us which is a public record that um
if town man you believe you you say I would reiterate that the town has a strong basis to assert that Romeaglia's actions and or omissions during her tenure as town manager satisfy one or more of the four
cause provisions. set for in the governing employment. So you say you reiterate that crown has a strong basis. Are you still are you still supporting that argument? Do we have a strong basis?
>> Yes, I'm still supporting that. If you believe that is true, if you believe there is a four cause termination, does the town manager's contract become null and void? In other words, if the
person is found criminal, fraudulent, or abusing her authority, does the contract become null and void? Contract meaning our obligation to pay this person. I believe it gives grounds for termination with cause, but for the
contract itself to be null and void. >> I meant do we still have to pay her? In simple words, do we still have to pay $74,000 or $73,000? >> The the town would then vote to terminate her with cause on that basis and then move forward that way. Okay, that's correct.
>> All right. If the person is found to be criminally negligent, fraudulent, abusing our authority. If if can we recover the legal cost from this person? The if the town has spent $10,000, $20,000, can we if the courts
find this person to be criminal, fraudulent, negligent, wasting taxpayers money, abusing, can we go and recover our legal costs from her? >> No. The contract provides that each party would bear their own attorney's fees and costs.
>> Yes. But contract is null and void. If the if there is a criminal or otherwise intent, then that contract doesn't apply anymore. Is that correct? You said contract doesn't apply at that. >> No, it's not that the contract would be null and void. It just gives the town cause under the contract.
>> Okay. Got it. Un with cause. with cause. What can we recover from this person? If they if someone our any government officials we trust did something misused taxpayers fund did something criminal. What can we recover as taxpayer from
this person? >> I'd have to take another look at the contract. Yes. >> You mentioned in your letter again that there are you believe you say again. I reiterate the town has a strong basis to assert
that Raaglia's action and or omissions during her tenure as town manager satisfy one or more of the with cause provisions. Could you tell us what are those with cause? What did your investigation find?
>> I don't think I can at this time given that negotiations remain open. >> Okay. is if this is no I believe this is no longer a negotiation at this time we gave in negotiation she said no either pay so in other words
you are saying you strongly believe that this person did something for cause something so bad that we have a strong basis to terminate with cause based on your very limited investigation you already have found causes which you
cannot disclose But you believe strongly and you are a very established lawyer with a probably the top law firm in this state. You believe and my question to you is um what can you tell us for the public for
our residents? What are those causes? Because how do we make that decision? What are those? Can you give us some nature of those causes? Because this is no longer a negotiation at this time. We either make a decision to pay her or not pay her. We have to pursue a line of
decision. So what is what are the causes? What can you tell us? >> I wouldn't be able to disclose the causes. However, I could outline which actions would fall in the provisions of the contract.
>> Okay. So could you tell us what provisions? Work provisions were broken. >> Yes. One moment. What provisions do you believe were broken? So, under the with cause provision, um I'm looking at subsection C, neglect of
duty, including the inability or unwillingness to properly discharge the responsibilities of the office. Subsection D, violation of any substant of town policy, rule, or regulation which would subject any other town manager to termination, including but
not limited to violation of the town's policy against harassment, equal employment opportunity policy or drug-free workplace policy, as well as the commission of any act, which is my apology, subsection F, the commission of
any act which involves moral turpitude or which causes the pound disrepute. >> So you still strongly believe that those provisions were broken, correct? >> Yes. >> Yes. I believe that we have enough to support it. Yes. So, Madame Mayor, my
friends here are saying, "Let's reward a bad government official who allegedly, according to her investigation, has committed all those things. So, we reward." Why? Because we are afraid. We
are afraid that oh, this is going to cost us financially. It's going to cost us 73,000 and we haven't even started this process. I believe we have the grounds to even go back and recover some of the monies that would probably be wasted or defrauded.
So anyway, this these are my >> Okay, so >> she just told you no. So I don't >> these are my comments. >> Okay. >> Do we have an order here? Why am I being disturbed? >> Okay. So all right. In conclusion, what
is your recommendation >> at this time? Vice Mayor Su. Um, I believe that the cost here may potentially outweigh what she is considering as far as the counter offer. I know we're at about roughly 73 to
$74,000 right now. However, um I believe if we move forward, if the town moves forward with terminating with cause, it would move towards the direction of launching an investigation first, which I'm not exactly sure the cost associated with that. And that would be a prelude
into litigation, which as I previously mentioned could potentially exceed $100,000 should it go to jury. Okay. So it it is my recommendation that the town give um some thought into her counter offer and consider the benefits versus
you know the cons of not accepting it as far as you know finances are concerned. But it it does not in my opinion it's not going to take away from the fact that the town could establish that she could be terminated with cause. However,
given the uncertainties of the outcome of litigation and or the investigation, it may be plausible to give her a counter offer some weight here. >> Okay. So, let's say today hypothetically we call we terminate her for cause. This council terminates her for cause.
>> Does that meter stop that she's collecting salary sitting at home? Does that stop? >> Yes. Under the contract. Yes. >> Now, let's say we don't do anything. We we don't pay her. We haven't paid her for all this extra $74,000, whatever
that is. We sit will, in other words, we don't take action. We let her take action. Why do we have to litigate first? Why can't we have her pursue those 70 whatever $4,000 if hypothetically if we
want to do that? >> I just want to make sure I I answer your question correctly. The latter portion of your question, you're asking if you were to stop paying her now. >> No, I'm saying we terminate her for cause. We exert all our privileges and we don't litigate. We let her litigate.
Let her spend money to come after us. >> Yes, that's how it would go. When terminate with cause, she would have the cause of action. Whichever cause of action she believes she would have, she would have to initiate the lawsuit. The town is under no obligation to initiate. In parallel to that, in parallel to
that, you have strong basis to believe all those things were broken. If we have to go dig deeper, you have to build a case. How long would you need and what are the costs estimate associated with that? Um it would it would depend not to
give the lawyer answer but it would depend on which actions we would like to limit it to for purposes of more so catering the with cause to those that we would be able to establish more and then we would also need to I guess determine
a timeline that we would be looking at to launch the investigation and how many people we would need. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> All right. Council member Coleman I think you had your light on next. >> Yeah. So yeah, I think we covered, you know, the
contract is still in place that I mean, we're still in a negotiation. Nothing has come to a screeching halt yet. Um, and I think the decision is based on what we believe is the best for the
town, not the individuals, not not um people that have, you know, listen, there were four complaints on her last year without any kind of case being made, any uh judgment being made, any
recommendation being made, any act of a I don't know, what did Robert say? He had to write his letter for like he got a letter saying don't do that again. Nothing like this transpired. Yeah. Thank you. Infraction. Nothing like this transpired. So now in the 9th hour we
all of a sudden have these these uh smoking guns as it were that that they're going to give us all this cause. It's going to cause all this all this uh give all this proof to prove that we have cause. I mean you know I'm not saying it's a reward. I'm saying it's a
benefit for the town. Um, I don't think Anita is calling it rewarding somebody either. Um, it's it's again it's it's about not about the singular or the few. It's it's about what's best for the town. It's not it's not about, you know,
vindicating, you know, whatever going after somebody. I know we've used witch hunt a lot because this is seeming like what it is. Um and and even if we just say we're going to terminate with cause, okay, the assumption is that that something's going to come back with some
sort of litigation, whether it's an intent or a letter or whatever. So we've already spent over $6,000. Tonight's probably going to add another 1,200 to it, you know, and then once more folks at her office get added on, it's not it
could be 300. It could Oh, wait. you know, managing partner got involved, there's 700. Oh, wait. We got five parallegals working. There's a thousand an hour. I mean, that that's how this works. I mean, again, I'm not playing at being a lawyer. I just know how billable hours work. And, you know, and and
contracts work like this all the time, you know. I mean, good, bad, and different, contract employees, private sector, public sector, this is how they work. There are umbrella clauses built into every contract person. And if you're a contract person and you don't have an umbrella clause built into your
contract, shame on you because a board could come at you and go, you know what, you look sideways at at the sec, we got to report you look sideways at the secretary and she was offended. So, we're letting you go with cause and go have fun fighting us cuz we have an army of attorneys, but there's we're going to pay you out your severance. We're going
to pay you out this. We're going to That's how these things work all day long across the board, you know? So, I mean, no. Do I see as a reward? No. I see it as an easy out for us. We've already spent enough funds on this. We've had um what now
individually and as a group we've had at least four meetings and some have had other me had conversations with the attorney. Um and again, no offense to the attorney, she's doing her job. Whatever directions she seems like I mean to me, you know, this was always
where it was headed like, hey, listen, we're going to investigate. We're going to do this. And you know, to me, I again, I think if we had such concrete proof that that it was inevitable that
it would have been screamed from the rooftops, you got a fire with cause because you have all this proof. I think we have some circumstantial proof or we have some stuff that could be interpreted one way or another and maybe you get a good judge and he and he and
he go he rules our way, but we're not going to get our lawyer fees back, right? We're not getting those back. What are we going to sue the individual now? So, there's more lawyer fees on top of that. And they're going to come back and say, "Well, she's a public official, so you know, she you know, it falls under this clause and this clause and
we're going to fight this on for years. I think we need to cut bait and move on. We have a direction we need to go that we're wanting to go. I think we need to move on. Okay. We have a lot of stuff that's being rebuilt in the processes around here and it was going to allow
staff to heal. It's going to allow everything to heal and to move forward. You know, I mean, there's a lot of things that were said. Oh, she hired all her friends. Well, when she was hired on as the manager, she was told to bring a role as the assistant town manager. She was told to bring a rolodex with her, right? by the previous calendar they
said we need help right things like this so I mean I don't know you you could point out everything I don't know I mean I could you know I I I don't I I just I think at this point the best course of action is for us to move on let the staff heal because
I think there's still some question as to what's going on because why she's not the former town manager right now she is still the town manager she's under contract so to call her the former town manager manager is incorrect. She's still the town manager until we squash this. We
could leave her on on, you know, administrative leave until October and her contract just goes away, right? But how much money is that? That's more than the 70. >> Believe last time we were told was 103. >> Thank you. Thank you. I couldn't recall.
Thank you, Lisa. >> 108 something, >> right? So again, we're still, you know, we in that 103 we would pay her. We can settle it. we can pay the attorneys. That's all falling in that sum of money. And you know, and we move on because I
think that's what we need to do. >> Okay? >> You know, we need to move on. >> Council member Stevens, >> council, thanks for being here again. Thank you. >> Just one quick question. U Councilman Suit actually beat me to a couple of
mine, so I won't uh go down that road again. U I had asked you a few days ago about um town manager violating the no contact order per the April 7th motion. >> Yes. >> Um do we still stand by that that she
did or have you seen anything to change your mind and say no uh she didn't? >> No. >> So she >> Yes. >> Affirmative she did. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh Council Member Kane, you had your light back on.
>> Yes, I do. Thank you. Um, so I just want to make sure that I that I understand this. You are the special counsel that we hired to investigate this situation to do the negotiations and to make a recommendation. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> And what you are recommending is that we
basically do what I just made a motion for and do that. That you think that that is the most fiscally responsible thing for this town to do. >> That is correct. But there is no way for you to possibly determine what kind of excessive costs might be incurred. And that when I spoke to you earlier today,
you said that it your best estimate it would be upwards of $100,000. You also indicated in that phone call that you had never tried a case like this and that it would require you to bring in senior level counsel to to work with you
on this case. So therefore, it would, as Mr. Coleman said double and perhaps triple the legal fees. Is that correct? I >> think that's a multiaceted statement. Um initially when we spoke I made reference to it litigation were to go to distance
of trial in excess of $100,000. >> It'll do that. >> That would irrespective of whether it's a fellow senior associate or a shareholder that would be added. It would be my preference as I mentioned it was I think about two meetings ago when
we all were deciding who to move forward with. I made it clear at that meeting that I would want a shareholder to be a side of me if this were to go to business. Um as to your other question um the only thing that I was not certain
on but um the acting town manager told on was the FSA spending account. Right. >> However, it is still my and I had spoke to you earlier about that it would be in the town's best financial interest to resolve it at this juncture
>> to go ahead and accept this counter offer and resolve it at this juncture. >> Yes. >> And and and I think that there's a lot of Would you not say in your experience there's a lot of healing that needs to happen and that that can only happen when something is resolved? I'm not sure
the aspect of it because I'm not privy to, you know, anything that has transpired. >> Oh, you've never been in a in a contractual dispute where it couldn't be like people couldn't move on with their lives until after it was resolved. >> Okay. All right. Thank you.
>> No problem. >> Okay. So the contract is a maximum payout of 20 weeks. >> So
I think the the threat of a lawsuit, which is what this is, the statement was if you don't accept my my offer, the town will be sued.
So in the lawsuit, the max that could be could be given would be 20 weeks. I believe 20 weeks is 62 and change. And both parties pay their legal fees. Should the town choose to terminate with
cause, then the burden of proof is the on the person who brings the lawsuit. That is correct. So while Paul you may think some of the information that has been unearthed
doesn't rise to enough that it came out here in public. There was plenty of things that were brought forward during the discussion of this contract that should council majority at the time which only required three votes to bring
this forward had been more diligent in reviewing that information perhaps they would have chosen differently but they had already moved on that I I feel so I think that some of the $100,000 that
keeps getting thrown out here right now. None of that is real until that becomes real. Uh 73,000 would not be the number. It would she would still get the PTO which I believe is 23 and change and
>> it was the 50 plus >> I know what the I know what there he said 73,000 we wouldn't pay her that. She would still get 23,000 and change for her PTO. >> So you understand that? Y so it it's really
the argument of $50,000 in change. Correct. >> That's the Yeah. >> And the FSA balance which was forfeited. >> Correct. So I think that
if a attorney who has reviewed the information that was documentable regarding operational and performance matters prior to an official investigation rises to the level of
cause, I think the council should give that due consideration. So that's that's where I feel we stand. So Paul, you put your light back on. >> Yeah. I'm not saying not to give it due consideration. I've given it due consideration. And I'm not saying that there aren't some things in there that
people have valid points. I'm not saying that what was brought. What I'm telling you is if if the cases that were brought came to fruition with some meat, we would have a leg to stand on. Just because I'm saying just because this
person says this and this person makes an accusation and this and this and this doesn't make it to where it's an actual thing. >> So, can I can I clarify something? >> Okay. >> Are you only talking about the things that were previously brought forward? >> That's what I'm saying. There's some smoking gun that came up in the last 30
days, two week, two months, whatever. Miss Simpson, are you aware of information that has come up since the the uh engagement of an additional contract with the town manager that is post uh October 1st that has happened
and been revealed? >> Is that your state? >> So, Madame Mayor, >> the town manager's contract was renewed October 1st. Mhm. Uh findings that rise to the level of with cause that have been determined since October 1st that
would postate the concerns that have been >> aside from the the communication after the contract after the >> Yes. >> You're going to die on a hill and you're going to pay hundreds because I'm telling you right now once you pull the trigger there's no going back. You're not going to go back to her and go you
know our bad. >> Can she answer my question? Yeah. >> So, has there been information discovered since October 1st when her contract was renewed that you feel rise to the issues that you pointed out at
the beginning when Vice Mayor Sud was asking you the questions of what in the contract you feel are cause? >> I would have to review the the dates on those. I don't have them right in front of me to be able to answer that um confidently. Madam, mayor.
>> All right. I I do believe that some even posted her put on administrative leave and information has been unearthed since April 7th and that is without an investigation. So I frankly am not um interested in
moving forward with an investigation if we choose to terminate um with cause until a legal suit would be filed with the town to cause the town to have to start taking that action anyway. So that's Are you still wanting to speak
because you have your light on? Okay. >> Sorry, I was I kind of got passionate like I do sometime. You know that. So, um, so what you're saying is you're you're willing to roll the dice that we won't have to enter into an investigation because there won't be a counter suit because you know that there's so much there that that's not
going to happen and we will not end up in an investigation. We will not end up $100,000 plus dollars in debt to a lawyer. Not in debt, but you know what I'm saying. you know, you know, for services rendered. >> I feel I feel pretty strongly with the information that I have have been told
and is documented that would rise to the level of with cause and and would hold up when questioned under under legal scrutiny. I do. Um, but >> well, I guess my my question is if if if they're so egregious that they would
rise to the level of this, why would they have not been brought forward to the state, to the board of ethics, to all this stuff since then? >> Why don't the contract require Does the contract require that it rises to the level of a state criminal?
>> Let you finish. I shut up and let you finish. >> Okay. But you're asking a question that >> okay >> the contract rules over that. >> So >> I I understand that. But again, I let I I realize you run the meeting. I'm not trying. But you know, I I let you finish. So what I'm saying is so all
this stuff happened since October 1st and since she was put on administrative leave currently technically she's still an employee. So or she's still in her position. She's on administrative leave pending the outcome. So why hasn't it been brought forward to to the governing bodies? If there's such a vendetta to
make all this happen, then why hasn't it been just >> why do you believe it's a vendetta? This we're not here to try this in the court of public opinion. And we were we were counseledled by the special counsel to not discuss things publicly because of the
>> saying it's that egregious. It's that egregious. How come it hasn't been brought to governing bodies to prove that it's a problem that it's active? >> What governing bodies would you like it brought to? >> I don't know. I like >> we are a governing body. >> You You know what I'm saying? Okay, maybe I'm using the wrong term, Lisa, but you know what I'm talking about. I'm
talking about IG, AG, ethics, etc. If all this stuff, if it's criminal, why hasn't it been brought uh something been filed with the with PBSO? What? Again, if these things are so egregious that we feel or y'all feel or
whoever feels that it's necessary to drag this on even longer and cost this town even more money, then I I just that's what I said. So the question for for me to you would be
>> if you were presented with the evidence >> that special counsel feels rises to a legal threshold for those things that she listed off >> would would you change the position? >> Probably not because she said right
after she said there's grounds she said the most prudent fiscally responsible thing to do would be to settle this. I would >> that's that's the advice of council Lisa and that's that's that's what I've been saying since we started this whole
>> the the prudently fiscally responsible is this is a definition of a number right you're you're basically saying we agree to a number tonight to terminate with cause leaves it open-ended to possible litigation
that's a big gamble to take that's a Yeah, that's that's a big >> Okay, so your big >> It's about the greater good of the town. Not >> You need your microphone. >> Yeah, sorry. It's about the greater good of the town. It's about moving forward. It's about the greater good of the staff. It's about all of it. It's not
just about the $73,000 or 75, you know, or the 50, right? It's not just about that. If it was if it if it was about that or it wasn't about the money or whatever and it went, oh, let her stay on administrative leave till October. Pay her the 103, call it a day.
We cut bait now. We get out of this. We move forward because we got a lot better more. We We have a lot more important things to be worried about than than what we keep beating this horse to
death. I mean, that's just, you know. >> All right. >> There's so much more going on around here. >> Oh, thank council member Kane. You had your line on next. Well, >> I'm just wondering why we spent what's our bill up to with you now? I I don't have the number at this moment. >> It was six last at the last meeting.
Three at the last meeting. So, we can assume it's probably six since it's two a week and a half later. So, if we paid you whatever amount of money we paid you and we chose you as our special counsel, would it not be prudent of us to accept your advice?
Would that not be the smart thing to do? >> It my advice should be given some weight, but it's not for you all to take it. It's for you all to vote on People hire lawyers not to accept their advice all the time. Okay. Thanks. Yes. >> All right. Vice Mayor Sud was on. >> Okay.
>> All right. So, here we are. Here we are. We have friends here on my c in this council here who have this statement. The statement is why not before? Why not before if this was so criminal?
Well, she was the most powerful executive in this tea. Most powerful. She was the boss of everybody. When the boss has such kind of power, you don't go to somebody and say boss this is the
fraud. So you I don't know from what where did you make this conclusion when the power person in the such a powerful position that's why we put her on administratively we follow the due process we are not saying she is guilty
we are doing step by step by step we removed her for exactly the same reason she had too much power too much influence she was the top boss now things are surfacing okay so that's point number One, let me tell you point number two here. Oh, financial
financial. These are the same people who gave her 41 vote. Our town, you resident said fire somebody on a 3-2 vote if the town manager doesn't do their job. These people 4-1. Okay. 4-1. Even if they knew
very well this question is coming on the referendum, the same people gave her a golden parachute which says pay her 2530,000 upfront for the whole health benefit. Pay her this, pay her that, do everything, negotiate
this. So let me ask people on the council. So you made some decision. We are living with it. We followed the due process. This town locks saves the last frontier. We are not
going to just be scared or be subjected to be held hostage by someone who says, "Oh, if you don't pay me, I have a threat of litigation." Is that what we are doing now? Somebody does illegal things and then we put our tail between our legs.
>> I did. >> Please don't interrupt. >> So, is this is this what we are? Is this what residents are about? You tell me. You hire an employee, your CEO or executive, that person does something so bad that the lawyer here tells us and
this is what we do. Thank you. >> Vice Mayor, we are running a business meeting between us. It's not about grandstanding. So, council member uh Coleman, you put your light on. >> I sorry for those that don't like that
sound. I just I've been told been told um you know I I don't think it's about fear of litigation. It's not you know I it's a belief that that's you know
inevitable. Um it's not a fear of it. In reality I think we threatened first when we said if you don't accept this 10 thou this 10 weeks we're going to we're going to terminate without cause. We have grounds to terminate without cause da da da. That was the stance that was taken.
Nobody talked about terminating with or without cause that meeting. >> That's what she said at the last meeting. >> No, >> she Yes, ma'am. She did. >> We did not talk. We make the decision. >> The the the the the way I understood it or the way I read the the brief the email was it was the negotiation stance
was if you don't accept this, we're going to terminate the the the recommendation is going to be terminated without clause or something along those lines. probably paraphrasing, I apologize, but you know, so we threw the gauntlet down first or the gauntlet was thrown down first or whatever.
My point is again, it's not about fear. It's about the most prudent, fiscally responsible thing to do for the town. And I think it's very cavalier to say, "Oh, well, nah, she's probably not going to come back at us because there's this egregious allegation out hanging out
there that, you know, I guess I have to have a one-on-one meeting with the attorney that nobody likes anybody to do around here. So, I I'll I guess I'll be in touch to find out what that is." Um, but, you know, it again, I think this is the most permanent physical fiscally
responsible thing to do at this juncture. Thank you, >> Miss Simpson. I I have a question uh for Miss Simpson. So, under what criteria should the council choose to terminate with cause and the
the manager choose to file a suit, what would be the criteria to file the suit? What would be the claim? >> I can't speak on behalf of her. I don't know what claim she may believe that she has against the town. Well, in your
legal opinion, what what options are available um for if the council chooses to terminate with cause and feels that there are um documentable reasons to make that rise to the level to to bring
that to the the forefront? What would the lawsuit I mean do you is it um termination? What would be what's the word when you
fire somebody who was wrongful? Wrongful termination. Thank you. >> There's so there's a pos she could. Um but anything beyond that obviously it would be up to her and her council to discuss to you know determine whether or not she has plausible claims and you
know that would that would be a strategy discussion that she would have with her council but okay given that there's a contract in place the most you know obvious one that she could go for is a breach of contract. >> Okay. So, she would claim that we we
terminate with cause and she would come up with some reason in the contract to state that we were not doing our part or the the outline of the contract. Somehow we failed to do our portion. Okay. Thank you. Um I think council member K. >> Yeah. I just wanted to let you know for
the record, Mr. Coleman, she won't tell you what the cause is. I had a private conversation with her today and asked her. So don't don't waste your time making the phone call because she won't tell you what it is. Lisa C said it I think but she won't tell me what it is. So >> I I I thought sorry >> you put your light on council member.
>> Yes. I I just want to clarify something. Um and we can look back and correct me if I'm wrong. I voted against the contract. Okay. So to say friends on the council voted for this contract. I voted against the contract because I didn't agree with the contract. Not necessarily I didn't
agree with her, but I didn't agree with the contract. So you know that's that. I just want to set the record straight. Thank you. >> Would you would you elaborate at all on some of the cause that that you have been has staff has shared with you
regarding performance matters or anything like that that you would be willing to to elaborate in any detail? >> I think it's in the best interest of the town to limit it to just discussing the provisions in a contract that I believe would be established as cause without
going into much detail. consider. >> Would you be willing if I pause the meeting to to speak to a council member that had a question if you would be so interested in entertaining that? >> I know council member Kane said she didn't get an answer, but
>> I mean I don't know at this point. I mean really I I still believe I mean unless I don't I I guess I would listen but I don't know that you know I can't imagine what would come before me that would you know at this point we're we're
we're you know we're splitting words >> by this agree by this agreement we're splitting we're we're splitting words. She she is she's being terminated right by this agreement it's a termination of her contract. So you know we're we're
nipping it in the bud. whatever it is, unless it unless it's criminal, you know, and again, I say if it's criminal, this is the wrong avenue. If it's criminal, there needs to be a a report filed with with PBSO. That's that's all I'm saying. >> Miss Simpson, does the contract require
criminal for cause as the only reason for terminating with cause, but for you, it would only have to rise. Criminal would be the threshold it would take for you to to agree to a termination with cause. again
even if to to yes actually to move that far forward because I don't think I don't think that this is a a a very inexpensive route. I don't think I I don't think that going with cause is is
is going to be and you know I might be wrong Lisa and you might look at me and go I told you so but I I just can't you know >> sorry I don't have crystal ball either. I know, but I'm just saying I just it's it's a it's it's it's it's
a it's a it's a big dice game, right? Because you don't know what's I mean, listen, I I I if I could have had a crystal ball last time we met, I would have said, you know what, I think she's going to take this offer or counter and say, "No, I'm stuck at 16." I never thought that it would come back the other way. But, you know, with what was
said and it's but again, it's not about the fear of that. It's about ending this situation and being done. That's what it's about, right? That's what it's about. >> All right, Vice Mayor S, >> the cheapest way possible.
>> I'm sorry. I assume you're done. Okay. >> Okay. Getting being done in my definition means hand over the matter to the special counsel and go on with our regular business. We trust we hired a law firm. They have
strong they believe they have strong cause. It's now up to us. I don't know if what what is the harm in having our council who cannot say those reasons in public. What is the harm in not having every council person here getting briefed with her for 5 minutes or
whatever time it takes to know what those things are? Because I'll tell you this, I would love to get those specifics because if if it turns out and history will tell, I don't know, maybe we will never know. But I would like to know this this
the problem is she knows something that public doesn't know. And you are assume no wait and and some pe some councils I'm not naming name are assuming oh town is guilty town did this town did that nobody knows. So she knows something
privileged. She can tell us in person what that is and then we come and make a decision. Thank you. >> Again, the only assumption I'm making is that this is going to lead to a very costly, expensive endeavor. That's the only assumption I'm making. I didn't
make any assumption as to what the evidence she has. Right. There was some eluding going on by Vice Mayor Sud as to oh well it's because she's a very powerful person and now people are coming forward so evidently Mr. Sud must
know something that we don't know. So I'm just again unless it unless it's I would say if we had documentation in our hands saying ethics said this IG said this defining here we could say look look at this. Okay yeah but we don't
have that. We don't have that and we're not going to have that. So, you know, I mean, again, no offense, you tell a lawyer to do something, they're going to do it unless it's going to get them disbarred. They're going to do what because they they're charging you $300 plus dollars an hour depending
on what's going on, right? So, if we tell tell them to go, they're going to go and they're going to run with it. I mean, that's just the way it is. She made a recommendation. You keeps going back. actually made two potential scenarios >> actually.
>> Yeah, she did. >> So, back to the question to you. >> Evidence provided for you has to be verified by an outside agency >> to rise to the level of the contract threat. All I'm saying is there was
there were there were multiple complaints made over the past year or okay up to October 1st or whatever that came to nothing right nothing because those entities right agencies it's kind of like you know if you're
prosecuting somebody for a crime unless you have evidence they're not prosecuting the prosecutor's not going to bring it forward they got to have hard evidence so even if they saw something was a little eh They don't have hard evidence. We had the attorney tell us that that the the
perjury was something very hard to prove, but it still got brought forward and it still went to whoever and it still wasted their time up there and it came back and said not founded or it came back with nothing. So, I guess my point is, and you know, again, something
so egregious came forward since October, besides, no offense, Joe, but besides her making a communication trying to whatever, you know, we're we're going to we're going to die on a on a email or a phone
call. I mean, come on. That's that's all I'm saying. So, if if you want a recess so I can hear the whatever, I will hear it. I I'll not saying I won't hear it. I'm just saying I don't know that it's going to change my mind. >> All right. I would like to pause the meeting for 15 minutes and any council
member who would like to sit individually with special counsel and ask their questions on what she has. So, we are on uh break until 7:16. For those uh watching online, uh the time has uh taken a little longer than
anticipated. At least another 15 minutes. 7:30 should be starting back up. Thank you. I'm good to >> So, uh, everyone again, we've still have another council member to go, so
probably another 15 more minutes. Still, right? you know, and and as they're falling, the horse palpit. >> All right. I'm sorry. Did you say we're live? >> Yes. >> Okay, folks. We're back. >> So, I I hope all the council members
felt that they um were satisfied with the information that was provided uh so they can make an informed decision tonight. Uh, any more comment before I ask for public comments? Any more discussion? All right, public comments, please. >> Yes, madame mayor. The first we have is
Virginia Stish. I realize you have a a decision before you that can go either way, but what I want to comment on is some of the language used. It's a factual and logical decision you have to make. So, I have to wonder why words like witch hunt
are being used. There are many reasons we've come to this uh point in time and I' almost like to suggest to council maybe we don't need a town manager for a while. You're a young town. 16 years of town managers seems to have been a
problem. But my point is use this as a learning experience. Please, I will remind you. There have been many things that have gone wrong. Use it to learn how to work with town manager. Especially you had a major FPNL underground project that was given to
this town. There were stories made up as to why it failed. There were many reasons, but I will remind you now when working with any town manager, please make sure you communicate with them. The biggest problem that happened in this town was that a public works supervisor
was allowed to sign a permit on property they did not even have per own. This town did not own. That was the biggest re that reason the project failed. The second reason the project failed is because there was no survey provided of
existing culverts. So my point to you is let's leave the emotional language out it out of this discussion. Stay focused on the facts and going forward please make sure council is working hand in hand with whoever is in
positions of management in this community. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yes, >> madame mayor. The final card we have is Todd McClendon. Thank you. So, pre council members, I think their thoughts were when they picked this attorney is that they were going to hire
an ambulance Jason. Fortunately, it sounded like tonight we didn't hire an ambulance Jason, which is good. She took her emotions out of it. He said, "This is what the best route is for the town financially." We got some people that swore an oath that they were going to do
the best financial thing for those town. The number of 77,000 keeps getting or 72,000 is zero out which Lisa thank you for pointing out that's not here. It's 50,000. So the option is do we gamble over $100,000 to save $50,000. You would never do that
with your own money unless you had an axe to run. You were just looking at it from a financial standpoint. You would pay the 50,000 be done with it. Read the room. You need four votes for this to happen. Um,
sometimes you get down a road and you don't have many offramps. You have one tonight. Thank you. Take the offramp and be done with it. Because if you keep going down this path, you may find out there's a cliff at the end. You may find out that the town has actually violated the contract long before.
Um, and keep in mind our next town manager is going to be watching this. They're watching this service. You are doing detrimental harm to the town with these actions by keep going after somebody and putting your personal
feelings in front of the Thank you. >> Thank you. No further public comments. No ma'am. Thank you. So, we have a motion on the floor um to maybe I maybe I have the clerk read it back, but
>> Oh, I was ask I just want to point of clarity before we read the motion. >> Is the acceptance of the negotiation a 32 or is it a 4-1? I know the termination which one >> is a 4-1. >> I I would assume it's a simple majority.
>> Okay. All right. I just wanted to clarify perhaps Miss Simpson has any clarification on that. I think only termination is the Yeah. So this is a negotiated settlement agreement um on accelerated leave for the retirement um
letter that we were had received. Council me uh sorry Vice Mayor Sud. >> All right. Uh, Madame Mayor, I went through the issues with the town attorney and I have to tell you
those issues are of grave concern to me. Now, I have to also tell you that this printout was given to us as a some sort of a prior complaint. This has nothing to do with these nothing to do with this. What I heard is
a is a repeated pattern of decisions that are taken and I fully agree. We have to focus on the facts and we are sending a message to any government official, anybody who we trust to run this town.
We are going to do what's right for the town. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh town clerk, could you please read that motion back? Thank you. Motion was made. I'm sorry, Madame
Mayor. The motion was made by council member Kaine to terminate the contract without cause and pay 16 weeks severance not including administrative pay, forfeiting the FSA and the pay in the um
the PTO that she um the uh town manager is entitled to. >> Thank you. >> Seconded by council member Coleman. >> Yes. Thank you. So all those in favor >> I >> I opposed
>> opposed >> opposed >> motion fails 2 three. So that leaves us with an opportunity to make another motion. >> I would like to propose a motion to terminate the town manager with cause
with immediate effect. I have a motion to terminate with cause effective immediately by Vice Mayor Sud. I need a second. >> No, we'll second. >> A second by Council Member Stevens. This
would require a supermajority vote. So, uh, we have a light on by Council Member Coleman. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Um, yeah, I also met with the attorney and albeit there's a litany of things or
whatever, there's not in my opinion anything substantiate the motion at hand. So that's my two cents. >> Okay. Anyone else? >> No public comment.
>> No, ma'am. >> No public comment. All right. All right, we have a motion to terminate with cause effective immediately uh by Vice Mayor Suit, second by Council Member Stevens. All those in favor? >> I >> I >> opposed. Opposed.
>> Motion fails. 32. So, we're at an impass tonight. Um uh unless a council member would like to change their stance either way. So, it is a $50,000 question. Um, and should
the council successfully move to terminate with cause, there's no guarantee that there would be a lawsuit and or what that would cost. That is an open-ended issue as well. Vice Mayor Sue, you have your light on.
>> Yes. So, I think the problem is our residents don't know what happened behind that door. And I am prepared to talk about those issues, Paul or anybody who wants to discuss. I'm not going to go into specifics of a lawyer. >> I would not do that.
>> No, I don't I don't I please >> please. Yes. >> Okay. So, my personal analysis looking at this is that this is a serious issue. So, this is what I propose.
I would like to propose a motion that the special counsel goes deeper. One of the issue is really really serious. So serious that this town's charter or town's culture or town's
existence is is can be somebody would say this is so serious that you probably will hear in the news. I would like our our town council to special counsel to
she said uh and she can correct me she needs some more information to go deeper into that particular issue. So I would like uh to propose a motion to give her deeper into those issues so she can come to us with a detailed analysis on that
issue number two I will call it. I'm not name I'm not allowed to name that what that is, but let her come back to us on that particular issue. Thank you. >> Okay. I think council member Coleman, you had your light on. >> Well, Mr. Sue made a motion, so >> Oh, okay. I'm sorry.
>> We have a motion. I'm not sure what that motion means. give her one more week to investigate deeper into the issues and come back to us with the results. >> Uh Miss Simpson, is that something that a deeper investigation would provide further insight into?
>> Yes, it would. >> Okay. >> It would. >> Um >> and a one week is feasible if the parties are available for me to sit down and have a discussion with them. >> Okay. And which parties would that involve? Are you at liberty to speak on that? I mean potential staff or possible
staff members that have parted ways since. >> Okay. All right. Um do we have a second for that motion? >> No second. Motion fails. So um council member Coleman, you had your light on. agency. I after having a conversation
with the attorney and diving into what she recommended when she was made to sit over there, >> right, I still reiterate, yes, it's a $50,000 question at hand today. >> Mhm. >> Which has a potential of being a much larger amount. And at this point in
time, and even what she was, and again, I'm not an attorney. I don't play to be one. I don't pretend to be one. But with what she explained to me, you know, I'm not an attorney and I can punch holes in a lot of that stuff. To me, there's
arguments to be made on both sides. And even if you had concrete proof, video, written documentation, I don't know. There's still arguments to be made aside. So I and you know
and from the documentations that she show documentation that she showed me and the conversation we have, I feel that there is an inevitable reply of litigation after you terminate with cause. And that's why
I'm not I don't support terminating with cause. If we had concrete evidence, I back it up all day long. So, I reiterate the motion that Miss Kane made earlier at this time. Same motion. I just I move the same
motion. I don't really want to council. Council member Kane, you had your light on. Um, >> I I was actually just going to make a motion to adjurnn because we're at an impass and and I just think it's to sit here and just keep beating the same things around this. >> Okay.
>> We got exhausted staff over there. We're paying an attorney $300 an hour. We're not getting anywhere. This this this group of three is stuck on their position. This group of two is stuck on their position. And we're not getting anywhere tonight. So, I mean, at this point, it just looks to me like, let the
contract ride out because that's where we're at. And but I just >> I don't think we've done discussing it. >> I just honestly a motion to adjourn. >> I have a second for that. >> Noted. Vice Mayor S, your light is on. >> Yeah. I would like to say if that is the
situation, I would like to suggest that we let our attorney keep digging into those investigation especially the issue. I mean we are not going to okay so the point I'm making is we are
going to even if this is a standill we have a lawyer here we have a special counsel here we would like her to pursue her line of thought which is she has found some issues she needs more time to investigate so I would say let her pursue the course for which we have
engaged her thank you >> okay >> Mr. pursuit. All due respect, you're the one pushing that agenda. You did not get a second for that. You're the one pushing that agenda. >> No, I I I I No, I I made a motion and
hasn't been called for a second. You made a motion. It fell flat. So, I don't think it's prudent to keep spending more and more money with the attorney to look into something that she's going to give us the same answer she's been giving us. The answer she gave us. Oh my. Did you
not hear the same stuff I heard? Do I have to get her on record telling you she told >> my point is I'm convincing my colleagues to now think about this in the status quo? In the status quo, who is winning here? What's happening here? Town manager is sitting home collecting
salary and laughing at us. So what's happening here? Please, we have we have a we have to take a decision here. It's irresponsible to leave with no decision. So I would say come up with a solution. We have three people here who are agreeing on a chain. Three people have
said no we are not giving her this package. So the question is what are we telling our council to do? >> Please refrain. Thank you. Council member >> I already reiterate my motion to adjurnn. >> I second. >> Okay. You have a motion and a second to adjurnn. Uh council member Stevens. You
have anything you'd like to add? Yeah, I do think we're at an impass tonight, unfortunately. Um, when are we meeting again? >> Well, remember the motion to put the the town manager on administrative leave was pending an investigation into operational and performance matters. Um,
the independent legal counsel that the town hired was provided information through staff. Some information has come to light post administrative leave. some of it um has been known for some time. Uh that
that that information is is still possible to move forward with an investigation which I believe will reveal even more. Um, but I I please stay quiet from the audience cuz
please please So, Council Member Coleman, I I understand where you are and and Council Member Kane, I understand where you are that you don't feel that the information that legal counsel said does rise to a legal threshold. Yes, there's always two arguments to every story. You can punch
holes in all of it. That's why we hired an attorney. Now, if you want to stop the money and you say it's $50,000 to stop it. Period. Right now, that's where you're you're taking your stance. No
matter what the information >> absolutely. >> Okay. And certainly with the information that was provided. >> Yeah. With the information provided tonight, >> there's nothing that rises to the level of criminality. She stated that. I'm not going speaking out of turn by say stating that >> again the contract does not require
criminality terminated with cause. I would I would stop confusing the public by acting >> I'm not trying to confuse the public. I am saying that there is nothing that was just told to me that rises to the level of criminality. I'm reiterating what Mr. Coleman just said which is there are two
sides in everything. And I honestly believe having been involved in owning my own business, having employees and in the law in the past that we would lose in this litigation. I don't believe that any of the things that were said to me rise to the level of cause. But again,
I'm not the attorney trying this. I'm not the judge hearing this. And you can go into court and anything can happen anyhow in court. I've seen some crazy rulings happen in court. So, I would not even begin to to dain to to look in my crystal ball and try to see what would
happen in court. I'm saying, let's just end this thing and have it end. Let's stop these painful conversations. Let's stop bleeding the town of money. Let's stop using our taxpayer dollars for whatever you want to call this. And
let's just end it at the $50,000. Done and dusted. over with and and all of this goes away. >> All right? >> I mean, that's what I'm saying. That's what I've said now. That's what I said two weeks ago when we met. It just needs to go away so that everybody can move on
with their lives. Right now, this is sucking the life out of our staff. It's sucking the life out of our towns people. It's sucking the life out of me. I I just end all of us up here. I just want it to end tonight. That's it. And I don't and I am certainly not in favor of
going into some six month year-long again I wouldn't dain to look into my crystal ball and say how long process to see this through a litigation. I just want it to be over with for all of us for the benefit of all of us but most importantly for the benefit of this town
and because this attorney that we hired said it's the most fiscally responsible thing to do and that's why I want to do it. That's it. Oh, hold on. I I don't know if the attorney made that statement that this is the fiscally responsible decision.
>> He did indeed make that statement. Well, you asked her that question. >> It it is it is the it puts the lid on the box. That is true. So, no ma'am, she made that statement. Would you please confirm that you made the statement that it's the
most fiscally responsible thing to do? >> The uncertain outcome of potential litigation. Yes. Thank you. >> Okay. It it does put the lid on the spending. Agreed. Yes. So, >> fiscally responsible would be saving
$50,000 potentially with the threat of a lawsuit. I'm sorry, Council Member Stevens, you had your light on next. Please stop talking from the audience, please. >> Thank you. Council member Stevens.
>> Yeah, the ringing needing to clear out of my ears on that one. Give me a second. That was pretty >> That was a loud gabble, wasn't it? >> So, I'm going to circle the wagons one last time. I'm going to just I'm I'm going to throw a Hail Mary out there,
counselor. Okay. When this all started, I brought up mediation. That's kind of where my gut said go. Let's just jump into a mediation. That's why I did not second the motion for counselor suit about because of jumping into any sort of investigation moving forward is just because I just we
are spending money. It is it's going out the door not coming back right now. How do we feel about what you found out so far? I know we discussed some things in the back. I know you're still looking to do a couple of things. How do you feel about a mediation now?
I think a mediator would help better facilitate, but where we are now, I'm not certain that her position would change. At this time, I can't speak on behalf of her. However, her council advised that that was the final counter offer. We've seen in the past and other cases unrelated to this one that if
there still may be some room to negotiate here, but I can't say that definitively. >> Could you repeat that last part again? Room to negotiate. There may be some room to negotiate. Yes. But we we wouldn't know that definitively until we
go back in to continue negotiations. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Vice May, >> special counsel, you still stick by the statement. There are strong reasons that you believe that there are grounds for four cause termination. Yes.
>> Yes. >> Okay. I think this is my dear friend Mr. Stevens, Madame Mayor, just Kane, Mr. Coen. This is a vote of principle.
Our special counsel has found a pattern, repeated pattern. It's not one or two or three and the process has just begun. So what it's not about personal vendetta. It's about doing the right thing. When
you have an employee, I run companies. I run I run businesses too. Yes, there are financial considerations always. But having said that, there are also moral considerations. We have a situation where a person of
the most powerful position did something and just because the lawyer her lawyer said we are going to litigate. What are we doing here? Okay, give her $50,000 that's not how that's not how Lock
Sahhati Groves is run. That's not what residents of Lock Sahhatche grows will never allow a person to come in your barn in your business take advantage and run away and then you claim you have to just pay them because of bad reputation.
That's not how you operate. So I would encourage my friends here to rethink. Let special counsel finish her investigation. This will give us at the very least her data to negotiate. So if we don't do anything, the town
manager is going to incur another week of salary at PTO. If you do something today, we can at least stop that and enter into a negotiation. So please consider the motion again. Thank you. >> Council member Coleman, you had your
light on. >> Um I can appreciate what you said. Manish, but you need to tell that to Bill Underwood, Jamie Tickham, and the any of the others that left with a buyout.
Left, you know, and not because they didn't leave because they were they were left. They left because they wanted to. They were left because they were asked to. So, they were all bought out. It's the common practice whether whether you believe in it, I believe in it, any
of us believe in it. That's the common practice. So, you know, again, the young lady, the attorney sat here, and she's going to answer the question the same way when you ask it every time. She said, "Yes." Is there some stuff that
could draw cause? Yes. But the prudent thing, I don't want to put words in. I'm not quoting, but the her recommendation is to settle it tonight because the ability to incur funds,
pay more funds is higher. So, that's the recommendation of the council that you nominated to select and that we voted to to use. That's that that's the recommendation. And I I I think to send her on a goose
chase or on a fishing expedition, to use other terms to to to dig farther is not going to find any more concrete evidence than there is now. >> Please don't interrupt. >> Yeah. And and it's just going to spend more taxpayer dollars. So, you know, at
this point in time, listen, I think, you know, it needs to be an agreement to disagree and we just and we need to move this town forward. And the only way we're moving this town forward right now, and we're not coming here three times a month and four times a month and having staff here till 8:00 at night on
a special meeting that started 6:00, is to just be done with this. And when I say be done with it, yes, I'm saying make a motion, be seconded to approve the buyout as we have it written in the
first motion and let's be done with this and move on because we have a lot of other things that need to happen in this town that are way more important. Okay? Chalk it up to you saving 90 grand by bullying the lobbyist out of here or
whatever. whatever you want to do. We save 90 grand. Let's spend it. Let's be done and let's move on. Thank you. >> Okay. I will say principles are expensive. So, >> that's a that's a statement that many
people have spent a fortune on. Council member Stevens, your lights on. >> Last question. Counselor, do you feel an investigation would get us any closer to uh settling this one way or the other?
And and part B to that is and I know you probably can't answer this but the amount of time it would go into that just roughly what what you've seen what you know what you think you need to do moving forward. >> Well as to your first question investigation
>> I can't say not because again that would be speaking to the mental questions of the town manager and adise her. I think an investigation more so go towards getting the council members to go one way or another with
agreeing or disagreeing to with costs. That's my opinion on that. Um, as far as an investigation is concerned, I could call out some of these items on this list and maybe come up with a time frame
and about how many manh hours that we would need to be put behind it. But I don't have that number right now, unfortunately. But if if that's the the way the council would like me to go, I could. >> Specifically, do you think it would
further the with cause part if we were to go that direction? >> Yes. So, Vice Mayor Sue, before before I send it to you, we made an offer of paid administrative leave and five additional
weeks of severance. That was, if my math is correct, it's a little over 3,000 plus dollars per whatever period a week represents. So, if we're one more week into paid
administrative leave, plus the five weeks we were willing to give on top of that, that brings us to $34,000 today. Rough numbers, give or take some change. So, now we're we're literally $16,000 difference than what we were willing to
offer before. So, what has changed? I know Council Member Kaine was happy with that offer. I think Council Coleman, you mentioned that you thought that was going to fly. I I thought I thought that was as as
also a good place to be. So, the administrative leave will continue unless we terminate. That's per week 3100 and changeish. 3200. >> Yes, that's correct. So, we're at
$16,000 right now with the five weeks we were willing to pay versus the 16 weeks. I personally feel quite strongly that, you know, principles cost money and I've
certainly played the legal games before. I think it's I think it's a threat. I think it's an empty threat. Um, but I'm also not completely void of the the potential as well. So, I
would pass it on to you, Vice M. >> All right. I think we all know the dynamics here. There are three people I can pitch to you again. Remember why voters sent you here.
Remember that. Remember principles. Remember easy road versus the right proof. Somebody did something that our lawyer feels is significant. She needs to look into it further. You
or someone says, "Well, close it. Close it." Remember, these are the same people who gave her some of the same things. So please, my request to you is this will be remembered in the history of the town. We did the right thing or
we just got scared and ran in the other direction. In my book, principles matter. We promise to the voters we that we will always stand to protect this town. We will always
protect your taxpayers money. And I am going to protect today with your help our taxpayers money confidence in the government which is equally important and the word we made to them running a transparent and honest government. I don't know the
history what happened in the past who were the town managers what they got away with but you are here today today. So you will be judged based on what you did today. I don't care about what happened in the past. So, please
consider this. I will make sure that the town will remember your votes today. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Please remember this. I said it months ago. I when when I got elected up here, I got elected for just the right just
this thing to take care of the town. Okay? That's why I got elected. That's why I ran. It's the whole reason I'm going through this whole circus that goes on here once, twice, three times a month. Okay? I I won by a large majority, too, Mr. Sud. So, you're not
the only one. I won by a large majority as well, please. Okay. So, all I have to say is it is not the most prudent thing to do that. I'm telling you right now, she can interview. You're talking about interviews with people and things like
this is hours upon hours upon hours, okay, to to to fish out and see if you can find something. So to say that spending, you know, $50,000 is not the the right thing to
do, I don't agree with you. And I I think we're we're just keep dragging this down the road. We're going to drag it right to October and she's going to get paid $103,000. So, you know, I don't support further investigation. I've heard what she has to say and I'm with Anita. I I I move to
adjourn. >> I second that. We've already had a motion to adjourn and I have not taken the >> Sorry. I'm sorry. I apologize. >> But but thank you. Thank you for reiterating. You're second and she seconds and you second. So
I I would like to say in the year plus that I have sat up here, I have worked diligently to bring information forward. I have brought information forward that
I felt egregiously affected residents in this town in a negative way and that this person has never been held accountable to that. Now that said,
every week $3,100 and change. every hour with this woman $300. So it that tick is going to keep going and she's sitting at 16 weeks. So
that that I don't think is movable enough to justify $16,000 at this point. We We just don't agree. Lisa, >> I'm actually moving in your direction, Paul, if you'll pay attention. >> I I thought I I thought I was I I
thought I was >> Shall I rebate my motion and shall we just get it done? >> I totally misunderstood what you're saying. I apologize. No, I was saying that I >> She's saying that it's time to put a >> I'm saying there's a possibility >> now. I would ask council
>> right if we terminate without cause and we agree to this and that puts it all it ends the tonight I'd like to see an apology to certain people in this town that oh thank you
Todd for that I think this council owes those people an apology for previous council's unwillingness to recognize that and I would call them out by name if they would allow me. But I think that
$16,000 is not worth the fight to for principles in my opinion. and that 16,000 with an investigation, whether that's just, you know, Simpson spending her time and speaking with
multiple individuals. I I think that would that add up pretty quickly along with the $3,100 every week taken away. So, I I think Vice Mayor S, you had your light on first. >> I think what Madame Mayor, let me help you understand a little bit about the
logic. You are thinking okay pay her 50 or 50 minus 16 34. That's not the logic. The logic is pay her zero zero. If those if
those claims are proven zero versus 75 no PTO no nothing those if those are as serious as our special counsel is paying zero. I would even say go back and if there is an abuse of tax funds get it back. It's happening in our federal government. It's happening at every
level. Fraud, waste, and abuse investigations are happening everywhere. So, what message are you sending here? Is that what we are doing? If they found something, let them give them the time to come back and complete their investigation. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Council Member Coleman. >> I just wanted to apologize for jumping the gun. I was totally not following your line there and I thought you were >> a bit too subtle sometimes. >> Yes. >> You you >> Yeah. So,
>> can I make another motion to accept the I I would I would like to speak to Vice Mayor Sud. >> The logic does not escape me. Uh the the special counsel has answered the question of can the town
either prevent certain monies from being paid. The PTO gets paid. PTO gets paid. Um the the level of criminality to prove that that's out of our hands. We don't get to prove that unfortunately.
um you know that that I think would be the only way this would actually make this contract completely go away, right? It would it would have to be fairly egregious, right? And it would have to be something egregious against the town. And I'm not even sure legally that even would still be a threshold that PTO
doesn't get paid. >> Tough. It'd be tough. >> Yeah. >> I I just that logic escapes me sadly. Uh so >> I don't know. I >> 50,000 50 plus >> it it is it is not 50,000 Manish in that
a week ago or so we were willing to give her what would have accounted to 17,000 or or so >> over here already >> and every week we're clocking off another one. So, if she doesn't budge on
her negotiation the other way after spending however much time and money with this young lady, um, and trust me, this doesn't chap anybody worse than it chaps me. So, >> it's, you know, >> yes,
>> it's not about me, guys. It's not about me. It's about the town, our reputation, and the values we respect. We are paying her 50,000 plus PTO 74,000 and change or
73,000 and change. Okay. 23,000 etc. PTO she gets paid she earned it probably 50,000 or zero that is the math and even I would argue if those things that I heard the issue if that is true if she
did what she thinks she needs time to talk to the people I would say with that kind of matter it's happening all across the country those people are seriously held accountable so
we what message are we sending today to our children to our grandchildren you stand for your principles I have a barn I have a business and when something like this somebody comes you trust and somebody this and you just say okay well
money it's give up this is government this is our reputation this council today decides what happens moving forward 50,000 or zero and we haven't even given given our special counsel
time to go through her analysis. It happens all the time. She needs more time to complete her analysis. So either you give her time or you just today fold and say all right you asked for it because you know what other side knows what's happening dynamics they're not
stupid they know they're not going to get four votes. So this is why they are posturing and people here allow allowing that posturing to happen. So again, residents of Loxa Hatche, make video of this whole thing and this will be
remembered in the history of the town. Thank you. >> Thank you, Council Member Stevens. >> Councelor, you said there might be a little room left negotiations while ago when we were speaking. >> I can't say definitively. It's a
possibility. I haven't gone back to her um her attorney just yet because we had this meeting. So, I could explore if there's any movement, but the the last email that I received from them is that it was her final counter. >> Where we are, where they are, we meet in the middle and we put this thing to bed.
>> It's a possibility. >> It's a possibility. >> Yes. >> Well, >> listen, I I would love I I really I I'm leaning I'm leaning toward an investigation as well. I really am because there are some things that
that you know I'm I'm you know my family's been hurt and I'm trying to leave myself out of this and I learned through the course of the election there's a lot of families that have been hurt and have gone through some things that could have been rectified could have been done under that term. I'm not I'm not trying to cast stones. I'm
really really not. So, it's hard to sit here and to not want to throw stones and to try to handle things in in the most professional way possible. And yes, things have been a little rough tonight, unfortunately. We're all
passionate about it. I I agree. And and I thank each of you for that. But where I'm at right now is we got to put this to bed. We got to move forward. and and so um that's I'm leaning towards what my
suggestion was there just a little bit more than maybe asking Mr. Sue to reopen his motion about an investigation. >> Thank you. >> Make a motion, Joe. >> Can I do a little math? >> Oh, can I do a little math?
>> Administrative pay is six weeks right now >> plus or minus a day, right? So, what does halfway to 16 look like? Because we were including administrative leave in our our calculation,
>> but I don't believe including administrative leave is in her offer. >> I understand that and that's she's at 16 weeks. I think it's unfortunate that she doesn't recognize she's been paid to do nothing, but that's a different story.
>> But what is half of that look like, Joe? Meeting that halfway. teacher math totally >> between 10 and 16. I think he said he agreed. She said 13 Betty back there to
between 10 and 16 is six weeks. >> I know between is is three weeks. No, what he's saying is between 10 weeks and we offered 10. She said >> including the five weeks of paid administrative leave is what we offered. >> Oh, >> so it was five additional severance. >> But she's already been paid the
administrative leave. So that's already paid. So I I I know what you're saying, but what I'm saying the the the the the cherry on top or the little piece on top is the the what's required by the state, right? The 20. >> That's not required. That's the maximum allow.
>> The maximum allowed. Excuse me. Sorry. Thank you for correcting my verbiage. >> The maximum u right. So we said five. She said 16. We said 10. She said no. 16. No, we only ever offered five because it included the five weeks of
paid administrative leave. We offered five weeks of severance in essence in our last motion. >> I thought the last motion was 10 >> to include paid administrative. >> I did make the motion for 10 and it was my intention for it to be tipped for 10 and for the administrative leave to serve as our notice which is a
requirement under the contract. However, Lisa added after I said that that the five would be included. So that cut it down to five weeks. is the way that it discuss that is the way that it was done. Yeah, she she added to my motion and so it became five weeks and we just
went with that and that offer was rejected. Basically five weeks severance was rejected. So now it's at 6 weeks of paid administrative leave give or take. We were at 5 weeks she's at 16. That's an 11we difference. What does that look like?
>> 5 and 1/2 weeks. 11 11 right >> perhaps we could offer 10 weeks. Perhaps we could see if there's room to negotiate it off for 10 weeks with the six weeks of administrative leave serving as the notice and not being part
of it and 10 weeks of >> there's no notice required. We're we're we're negotiating an accelerated leave that that 10 that 30-day notice is gone. >> All right. So 10 weeks from here. >> 10 10 weeks. Just 10 weeks severance. >> Severance. Right. >> Right.
>> Period. >> Plus whatever is else she's entitled to under the contract. Whatever. >> Yeah. That's not that's not negotiable. >> So >> that's about that's about 31,000. >> Yeah. >> 31,000 versus 51,000. It's about a $19,000 difference. So can we counter
back with just the 10 weeks and see give give Miss Simpson authorization to counterback with that the the 10 weeks but without the cottisel of time served for lack of a better term that it's 10 weeks from the separation date >> because that's basically a 16week
severance if you include 16 week severance. So >> you know use a little logic here people. So, I I think that's more than generous and fair given that we can't seem to meet on what is a
threshold of undeniably provable, you know. >> All right. So, I'll make that motion. >> Yes. >> We need We need a second. A motion and a second. Then we have discussion. >> I'll second. >> Okay. We have a motion for >> Okay. Just please for clarification so
we don't have any miscommunication. I I will clarify >> a motion for 10 weeks severance payout. I thank you. >> Thank you, ma'am. >> 10 weeks severance payout by council member Kaine and a second by council member Coleman. And we have um some discussion up here and some public comment.
>> Okay. So, this is what happened. Last time we gave her a fair offer and my friends here all voted and the other people are looking at the live video and they know what the dynamics are here. Our previous council
put in 41 to terminate. She knows that's not going to happen. Can you stop interrupting please? You had your chance to speak right? >> Yes, but you keep disparaging stop. They abused her asking if they did okay speak civil
>> previous council including the people person sitting here I wouldn't name her dead 41 and now and now and now what is happening whatever comes offer they send this is the dynamic we say nay or yay or
whatever they know we are never going to terminate her so this cycle oh let's go back this this this this so this is what I'm proposing >> this is not going to end like this and this is again let me propose this and I'm taking Mr. Steven's solution and
madame mayor what you said let's this is a termination for cause >> no >> second we will offer her what you just said we will offer her if she takes this we take the termination for cause away it's a
cause that we will take back if she doesn't take it we do not our meter stops the day so I would support in the spirit of working together because we are living in a situation where we gave her a golden parachute contract.
We can terminate her today with that offer. If that lawyers can do it and then if she accepts it, great. We will take this away. No problem. If she doesn't, it stops and then we do the investigation forward. We move forward.
>> Count Vice Mayor Sue, I don't believe legally that that works like that. >> And and I'm unwilling to alter my motion. So I I I think I don't think that I know it doesn't legally work like that. You can't say, "Well, if you don't accept our offer, we tend to terminate you."
>> You can't do that. >> Don't play as an attorney. >> This is my intent. Can you come up with some way to >> Okay. >> Where her meter stops? What is the way to stop the meter today? >> Well, we have a motion on the floor. >> I need some advice before I specifically
my motion. Please, Miss Simpson, go ahead and and explain to Vice Mayor Sud how the G the meter stops. >> Could we accomplish the same intent to stop the meter, offer her what we agreed to offer her, but this is the final offer. This is it. If she does not
take it, we will terminate and we will start the investigation. How do we do this in a manner that is compliant and everything? How do we do that? I'm not sure I'm following. Okay. So, >> he would he would like to make a
multiaceted motion that if if we throw this out and she refuses to to meet us at that point, that is de facto termination with cause. It doesn't work like that. >> Okay. Okay. Something the intent is we want to say this is it. If he doesn't
take it >> that that then triggers constructive termination in the contract. It's a crappy contract. Never should have been agreed. Well, thank you. >> We can deal with new contracts after we get past this. >> Exactly. >> You got to Can >> Can I Can I please >> Yes, please.
>> We talked about whole harmless letter before. >> Is that included in what you're talking about? >> That is included in the >> And and can we we try I think last time we tried to make sure that what part of the pay are we at the end of the pay period, Valerie, or at the beginning? >> It was yesterday at 5:15.
>> So, can we can we agree to that possible? >> Can we get her to agree to it? Yes. >> That's what I'm saying. Can we can we make it effective yesterday? Can we make it effective retroactively to yesterday's pay period? >> I mean, that would be a term she would have to agree to,
>> but I think it's a bi-weekly pay, right? Isn't it? So, we're in the middle of one. >> Okay, good. So, we're our our next um payday is May 29th, >> but her termination could be today. If we take it to next week, that's now seven weeks of >> Okay. So, make the termination effective.
>> Yes. >> Wednesday night, whatever. >> Wednesday night at midnight. whatever he said. Valerie, >> you can agree to anything you want to agree to. Yeah. >> No, I I I I know. I just want to make sure we had that in there. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so, let me try to restate it to make sure that we're we're
doing 10 weeks of severance from the date of Wednesday of this week. >> Effective >> effective Wednesday of this week. >> Close of business. >> Yeah. Close of business. Midnight. Whatever you said it had to be, Valerie. She She said the right Whatever it had
to be. um and any any other thing under the contract that we have to pay the PTO whatever it is and but we are not paying the FSA the 900 and she loses under the under our understanding from the
insurance guy. She loses the $932 or whatever you said it was that's in the uh in there. Okay. >> In the user lose. But that's my motion. >> And the whole hold harmless is included. >> And the whole harmless list is included. It's the same thing that would have been negotiated previously. >> But whatever. >> I maintain my second.
>> Do I have a second? You maintain your second. >> Council member, do we have a modified motion? >> Supposed to maintain >> basically effective as of uh end of business yesterday, >> May 20th. Um >> would you say the motion?
>> So the motion on the floor is uh to offer a 10 weeks severance. It's about 31 and change that it would be effective yesterday at close of business which would be another week of pay. Um so that
that takes that to six weeks. In essence, it's agreeing to six weeks but not agreeing to six weeks because it stops the meter. The PTO stops accumulating and we have uh every that and I believe um what was the word we used for the FSA
that it's um >> it's a user that is >> I no I understand what it's forfeited. >> It's forfeited. Thank you. >> Brain cell by terminating her meter stops. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And and what happens if she says no to this thing?
>> We would we would basically um authorize uh our special counsel and the acting manager to act upon that agreement once it's agreed to it. It would end it would end any of these meetings. It would end all of that and the meter right now. >> And if it doesn't then we got to come
back. >> Then we have to come back and then we have to decide if we're going to terminate or cause. And she's still getting paid. >> She's still getting paid. >> The lady is still getting paid and PTO is still accumulating. Stop the bleeding. >> Yeah, >> granted I'd love to send it down the road with zero. I I like it's a nice
round number. >> So, let's let me like my light is on. So, some some comments here. So, you're saying okay, give her 10 weeks plus PT. Is that what you're saying? >> We have to pay her PTO. >> Okay. Okay. Don't I AB 2 is a big if somebody did something so criminally bad
then we don't have to do anything anyway. 10 weeks plus >> serial killer. I mean >> no no something I I shouldn't use this word because I've been told to lawyer >> I know what you're talking about >> madam mayor I am personally affected because of that you know that right he
is probably not but I am so I am feeling like so my hands are tied I can tell these people what that manager did >> so coming back to this 10 weeks plus PTO and
10 weeks plus PTO you're paying her her meter stops yesterday. Correct. She's What? What does that mean? She's terminated with effect from yesterday. >> Yeah. End of business yesterday. >> Or cause? Without cause? What? >> There's without cause. >> It's without cause, my friend. >> Without cause. Okay. So, we are
terminating her without cause as of Wednesday and we send this offer to her and they say no. Now what? >> We come back and meet again >> and then her meter continues. >> Yes. Correct. the meter without constructive >> or you give her or you give her the offer that she has on the table pay the
50 and it and it stops today. >> So can I say my piece? >> Yes. >> If I would support this if you if you all agree that if she says no to this one I know 4-1 vote is
needed. You will consider voting for cause termination. Yes. If you give this generous offer between us, >> this this is not a a a m municipality on the other end of the county where multiple individuals were indicted by the FBI. There you have nothing
concrete. Mish, I get I get your pain. I get it. I get it. >> This is a bad >> I disagree that there isn't concrete. But council member Stevens, >> uh, council, when can we expect an answer back if we approve this motion? What's a reasonable 5:00 tomorrow? Is that too soon? 5:00 Monday. I mean, we
we would want to know something pretty quick. >> Monday's a holiday. >> Monday's a holiday. Tuesday. Yeah. Thank you. >> Monday. If this is approved, I >> mean, this is We need to put this to bed. >> I I have five o'clock by tomorrow would be fine with me. This is This is
>> So, you're presuming that everybody's available. So, I don't know. >> I'm sure they are. >> So, while I would love to say five o'clock by tomorrow is plausible, I would be speaking for her attorneys. So it it would be impossible for me to say I think maybe by Tuesday the latest
Wednesday is reasonable because I would have to present this offer to him and he wouldn't need time to have a discussion with her. >> Close your business Wednesday. >> Should we put that in the motion? >> Well, I I am I do know that um she is planning on being away for the holiday.
Um she had told me that she will be monitoring her emails, but again um there could potentially be lack of service. So I just want to throw that out there. um due to her schedule. >> Okay. >> To close the business Wednesday. Does that sound reasonable?
>> I I think >> reasonable for me. >> Okay. So, that's the motion. >> Vice Mayor Si. >> Yes. >> And a second it. >> Okay. Well, >> we'll do it again. >> This is the same thing that happened last time. Same thing. >> We are going in another cycle and the
same thing is going to repeat. So anyway, once again, my final comment is do what you think your conscience tells you to do and the resident of this residents of this town demand of you. Thank you,
>> Madam Mayor. I have a comment card. >> Thank you. >> That's um Todd Mclendon. >> We have a new motion that allows for public comment. Yeah. kind of been thrown around and I think it's going over people's heads here. Le
made the comment, I want the bleeding to stop. There's one way you do it. It's like Paul just pointed out 16 weeks, not 15.9. You want the bleeding to stop and be sure of it, which is where Lisa was headed 10 minutes ago. You do the 60 weeks and the bleeding stops immediately
for sure. No. Well, it might come back next week. What about Wednesday? It stops. It's done. It only takes three sensible people to realize that it's giving Manish what he wants. He wants the bleeding to stop. It does that. Puts
an end to it. The 16 weeks that settles it. Not this back and forth. We're still negotiating and back and forth and we wait till Wednesday and then she says no. And then she comes back and says, "Well, I'll do 15 weeks." We're right back to where we were before this meeting started today. Back and forth.
Back and forth. Not 15.9, 16. That's what's there. Well, what is going on here? You're leaving here tonight with nothing resolved again. It's back in her lap to make the decision. The decision's on you. 16 weeks and be
done with it. It's guaranteed finished. You know, I said it back in the beginning. The one person who's keeps making the money, she's sitting over here trying to do her job. And you got a tough job with this crowd. >> Thank you. No more cards, Madam Mayor.
>> All right. So we have a motion which is to offer 10 weeks of severance. Uh forfeite of the FSA the PTO is not on the table as far as
this goes. It's It's paid and it would be effective as of close of business yesterday and they have until close of business May >> 27th. That sound right? May 27th to
return to our council with a response. I would point out this is a 16-week offer and unfortunately it just effectively >> doesn't just Yeah. Anyway, and there is no more comment. Vice Mayor Sud, time to call for a vote.
>> Public comment. >> No, we we close our discussion when we open for public comment. It's we don't respond to the public, per se. >> Okay. >> Respond to your >> Okay. Thank you. Go ahead. >> I think I agree here with what Mr.
Mclendon said. You guys feel good that you accomplished something today. You're just kicking Ken down the road. She's on vacation. Her lawyer is not available. You It seems like we are children here. Hey, take our deal. Please guys, this is
not how the councils are run. Remember what you stand for. Send a message. Message is take this deal or you terminate and lawyer goes forward. It's either zero or $50,000. Thank you. >> That That's not the motion. We
>> That's not part of my motion. So, just to be clear. Thank you. >> So, >> just to be clear, that's extortion is not part of my motion. >> Well, extortion is unfortunately part of this tonight. Should >> whatever, but it's not part of my motion. I don't want to be a party to it, but >> So,
>> okay. Are we voting? >> All right. >> All those in favor? >> I oppose. >> Make the noise. >> All right. Motion passes 41. Thank you.
I need a motion to adjourn the meeting. >> I'll make it. >> Oh, can I real quick? Can I get consensus? >> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We had a council comments. My bad. Sorry. My bad. >> I I know we want to get out here. I'm with you. Locks Hatche Avenue. They have a plan.
>> Craig has a plan. Um but really want to get resident buyin. Um, so can we get to consensus for staff to send a letter out >> to to say, "Hey, this is the plan to cut off Lockachi Avenue to keep the commercial traffic off." >> Do you know what he's talking about? So,
uh, Southern Lawn Equipment, which is west of us, >> really building on >> I think it was called the crematorium. So there is a there is a small street >> actually a nice term >> the small street to the east of it that comes off of Southern Boulevard and te's
into west Citrus >> no sand tangerine >> west of Citrus >> and they're not following the traffic plan >> and right they they were per their design and agreed to plan they were only supposed to exit out of there to
Southern Boulevard but they're coming back out of there turning onto that small residential road. And so what council member Coleman is is suggesting is that we um authorize council to I'm sorry, staff to reach out to the residents along that road and and
basically pull how they feel about having that road shut off. They would still be able to exit east and west to >> actually the letter the letters actually going to be say this is the plan. You have we're going to put on the July agenda and they can come speak on it.
Okay? >> You know what I'm saying? That that's kind of >> they're still going to weigh in on it. But >> yes, >> if you haven't driven that road, you can go west to D road. And is that E- Road to the east? >> Yes. >> That's like on the other side of the canal because it doesn't go through. >> If I understand, you don't want commercial traffic coming on.
>> No, there will be no traffic. >> No traffic off. >> Yeah. Coming to Tangerine Tangerine. >> The residents. Uh >> Well, that's what we're asking. >> There's nothing. Residents don't use that road. >> They do use the ability to. We're asking if they would like it shut off because that that business is not following the
site plan and it really is the only way to stop traffic is to completely cut it off from through through fair. >> I'm trying to take everybody's >> trying to get community input. So >> we could do the lock box gate or >> you could more expensive. >> I'm trying to get input from the
residents instead of just taking the minorities word, right? because I know a few people there and they would be glad gladly have it locked off. I'm trying to get more people's buy in is what we're trying to do. >> It's a little more than halfway, right? It's a little >> halfway between D and >> about halfway. Yeah. Okay. So, the
middle houses would have >> you want residents to come and provide their feedback. Yes. >> The affected properties there if they would like to provide feedback. Yay or nay. >> Okay. >> To come on. >> Connecting manager would like to say something leaning in. Leaning in. So, we
were planning on um placing this item on the June agenda for discussion to bring forward some options. Um, one of them being a guard rail, the other being potentially um a dirt burm. Um, I might suggest either a we continue with the
discussion so that way the public has an opportunity to hear what the options are um and then announce for them to um you know provide their feedback either via email or come to the July meeting and then a decision can be made then. Um, the other thing too is staff recently
did a traffic count so we have some some information to bring forward to you guys. >> I like that idea. >> Would it still be possible to send the affected parcels along that? >> Absolutely. >> Where there are residents um to let them know that this is coming up. >> How Yeah. How quickly could the letter
get out? Like could it get out? I mean, because we're still like a week and a half. Monday's a holiday. I know Monday. No mail Monday. Could it get out early next week so that they could have like several options? the options being to come here the June 2nd to weigh in at the July whatever it is
>> and and would that and to email in between like they would have multiaceted >> absolutely it's not a problem whatever >> yeah that that would be great thanks >> yes sir folks >> I just think those affected parties should should really be >> right that's that's my whole
>> notified yeah for for sure >> I mean my my first comment to staff was tell me we can lock that off today I No, no. Okay. >> Uh, a manager, did you have another? >> Uh, just um to echo uh council member
Kaine earlier on her announcement regarding the countywide transportation master plan public meeting. It is on June 30th from 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. It is on the town's um website. We will be adding a link to the direct page um uh for the county
>> and it's at the Bell Glade Library. >> All right. And we have a motion to adjurnn. Second. >> Oh, yeah. All in favor? >> I post hearing none. >> Good night.