horses faster. >> Seems to be right as it started raining that I was finishing horses and hitting [Music] >> a little bit rain and got out of the shower. You need a shower.
Bal, >> are we ready? Yes. >> Okay. >> September 3rd, Locket Grove Council meeting will now come to order. We could all stand for the pledge of allegiance, please.
>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic and justice for all. >> Moment of silence, please, for everyone who needs a moment of silence.
And if I could have a roll call, please. >> Council member Coleman >> here. >> Council member El Ramy >> here. >> Council member McClendon >> here. >> Vice Mayor Herszog >> here. >> Mayor Kaine present. Town manager Ramaya >> here. >> Town attorney Kurtz
>> here. >> Town clerk Oaks present. Public Works Director Galant >> present. >> Community standards director Gardenner Young is present. >> Chief Finance Officer David Delena. >> Present. >> Okay. Thank you. Um this is the portion
of the evening where we have uh comments on non-aggenda items. Do you have um any comments? >> I know I have one you'll that they wanted me to read specifically. So you'll tell me when you if there's an order or whatever. You can you can start
while I get myself in order. Thank you. >> Uh this comment was sent in uh at 10:28 this morning. Good morning. I'm submitting my comment for the September 3rd meeting. I cannot make the meeting because of a previous engagement at church and would like it read by Anita Kaine if possible. My name is Cynthia
Taylor. I live at 13224 Marcella Boulevard. To be honest, I don't know a lot about all of this lobbyist jargon, but I do know that like many people, this town is very, very precious to me. I also realize what can be lost in the stroke of a pen or a vote by people who care more about money than our precious
royal lifestyle. I second all all motions of Minute Suit. Thank you. Thank you, mayor. Uh I have Teresa Baris Ford. You may come to the podium.
Right to the podium. We're having a problem. I live on Citrus. >> Excuse me if you could just state your name. Uh Teresa Barisford. Okay. Um I live on Citrus down at the dead end. >> And um it's this has been going on for a while, but
it's kind of reached a peak now. We're seeing a lot of criminal I want to say criminals coming into our area. I don't know if you're aware that we had a pre-dawn SWAT raid a couple of weeks ago right across the street from me.
>> I I saw that. >> Yeah. I was out, you know, I'm up early. I get up at 5:00 in the morning. >> And it's not the only thing. I mean, there's a where there's someone else there who's committing sex crimes that they're looking for. Um I saw someone
with a semi parked um probably a total of three weeks taking the shotgun out of the back. I mean, I call the police, but you know, I couldn't say specifically. I, you know, I reported it. I had the guy's uh he wasn't from the air. He wasn't even was
living there. I don't know who he knew that he could park a semi. But my my issue is that now we have a lot of rentals. People break up. Instead of selling the home, they rent. and they're
renting to people who they're not vetting. They're not doing background checks. They're seem to be not in every case, but but the majority of cases, they're not people from our area. And so with the good people,
we're getting the bad people in. And I don't know if there's a way that you know the town could have some kind of a provision where if you're going to rent you have it's like if you know you're in Palm Beach County say Palm Beach I work for people that rented their homes.
They'd have to register. They'd have to charge a fee. They have you know there's a lot of paperwork that has to be done. And I don't know we we it just um it's I think it's getting out of hand now and I don't feel safe. Um, I've had my my my
home cased. I got up late one morning. It was for work and there's a truck parked outside and I think they had something to do with this guy that they were looking for with the SWAT team was looking for. Luckily, I was, you know, hadn't gone to work yet. And I was so furious because I've had Home Invasion
that I just strolled up. They didn't speak English and I'm like, "What are you doing here? Who are you looking for?" And the address they gave was the address of the old Lockxahhatche firehouse. Um there are a lot of people that come and go from there, a lot of transients.
And so it's a concern of mine and I I think this is what leads me into the fact that I think doing this development, you know, with the I mean we have a park, we have soccer fields. I don't know why we need another one. I don't
know why we need an RV park when Lion Country Safari has a sufficient one. I just think we're going to increase the incidence of transient people with these with this kind of development and it's really kind of sad. Is that my cut off?
Thank you. All right. Uh Vice Mayor Herszog, you had put in a public comment. >> Yes. >> On behalf of a resident. Yes. No, you could do it from there. Thank you. >> All right. Uh I'm going to put on my other hat. uh president of the landowners association. I'd like to
announce that the Lockxachi Groves Landowners Association is pleased to announce that our 2025 scholarship application links are on the website with a deadline on Friday, September 12th, 2025 by 5:00 p.m. Eastern Standard
Time for Lock Sahhatche Groves residents only. Um, below is a link to the LGLA 2019 post high school scholarship application for both college, university, vocational, technical, and
special needs scholarships with a fillable forms on the LGLA website under the scholarship area at the following link. Block Sache Groves landowners mylga.com http
colon slmylga.com Thank you. >> Thank you, Vice Mayor Ally Dailyaly. Uh, good evening, mayor, members of the council. My name is Ally and I'm speaking on behalf of over 300 residents
of our small town of just 3,500 people united in opposition to the proposed zoning change in Bove Development's massive RV park. I've given you I will give you all a document outlining research negative aspects of RV parks and the serious safety concerns to consider. We urge you we urge you to re
reject this proposed zoning change, this project and the to to protect the rural heart of Lockxahhatche Groves and our town charter which was created specifically to protect us from situations like this that we now face. We chose lotsahi for its rural charm, a
place where horses graze, nature thrives, and families enjoy peace and quiet. Our town's charter reflects this vision, prioritizing prioritizing rural residential zoning and the preservation of our farm-like community. approving the creation of an ambiguous new zoning classification and changing the zoning
to acquies to Mr. B for this commercial venture of an RV park and bringing in potentially over 600 transient residents in constant flux would destroy that vision. We do not want this project in our backyards. This development will decimate natural habitats, protected species, and risk polluting the canals
along the property, endangering our shared environments and aquifers. The developer's $500,000 offer or bribe for infrastructure primarily serves his RV park, not Lockxahhatchee residents. Meanwhile, we faced increased traffic, noise, potential crime, and the danger
from an unregulated influx of transient visitors. This massive RV park, larger than those in actual tourist destinations, does not belong in our small non-ourist town. Our property values are at stake. Studies show that RV parks can reduce nearby home values 10 to 15% due to noise, traffic, crime,
safety concerns, and transient populations. Who will reimburse us for those losses? Our homes are our life's investment, and this project jeopardizes them. It also creates a slippery slope to sprawling housing developments and big box stores, eroding the rural identity of
Lockxahhatche Groves. Our petition sends a clear message. We reject this zoning change and this RV park. We demand a town that remains a haven for families, horses, and nature, not a hub for ephemeral RV living. Deny this zoning change, protect our environment, protect
our property values, and protect our way of life. You, our town council, were elected to serve we the people of Lockahhatchee Groves. And we ask that you remember that one person should not have should not be able to determine the fate of nor override the will of the
residents of this community. We do not want this project in our backyards, nor will we accept it. Further note, please know that based on everything that all the people that have signed the um petition have said is that anyone that votes in favors of this project will not
be reelected. Thank you for listening. Honor your duty. Thank you for listening. Honor your duty to the people of Lockxahhatche Groves and make the right decision for our community. May I give you guys a print out of the dangers of RV parks? >> Motion to file and receive. Anybody?
>> Motion to file a second. >> Okay. Yes. >> Okay. Would you like me to give it to >> Yeah. >> And I have extra copies if any. >> All in favor? I go without saying, but whatever. Got it. >> In the meantime, may I have Mr. Brian
McNeel. Good evening. Thanks. You stay there. Reminds me of me. Um, thanks for having us here, everybody all around. Um, I had my jaw broken a couple of years ago during dental surgery so-called and I
had to go see a neurologist and on his desk he had one of those five ball racks, you know, that's like suspended and you lift one ball up. Well, he said, "Brian, your nervous system is like one of these racks here.
I can do this and it won't affect everything in between, but watch what happens to the end ball." Boom. when it goes off. Well, I kind of think we have that problem here. We're focusing on the wrong ball. The RV park is one of those
three balls, but it's not the one that's going to do the damage. It's the zoning change. That is what this issue is. It's it's so important that we not spend the
emotional energy when all we have to do is keep the horse in the barn. Do not change any zoning at all because one, two, three, four, five. You've got a ball. You've got a ball.
You've got a ball. You've got a ball. And you've got a ball. One of you is going to be holding that steel ball. And if that steel ball is the zoning change that will allow all these things we're afraid of, you can't drop that ball. You
got to honor the charter. You got to honor the comp plan. You have to honor our citizens who are terrified of what's happening around us. A death, a fatality on Seol Pratt. Somebody got plowed over on Southern
Boulevard this week. You got to understand the the noose is tightening and we are the head that are we going to survive or we going to choke. It's such a simple solution and you five
people control this not these people. Don't drop the ball. Honor the charter. Thank you. Miss Phyllis Manila. >> After Phyllis will be Miss Cassie Suchi, Phyllis Manilia.
So, the first person that spoke was Miss Teresa, who uh lives over there off Citrus. And uh I've recently been um walking and talking to the people on
Citrus and there is a problem with crime over there. I'm looking out. I don't see a sheriff's department officer in the building. Yeah. Okay. outside. So anyway, um I'm
just wondering why all the complaints that I heard about the vacant land and transients and RVs sitting in this vacant land are not showing up on our police reports. Second of all,
um zoning since Brian brought it up, we have aggress. Okay, which people take advantage of because there's several people in the room that maybe have a couple of chickens and a horse on 10 acres and
what's their contribution, right? So, agress is a bit of a problem because and then we have commercial. Well, nobody on the north side wants commercial. So, all the commercial's on the south side. So, once we build up
that commercial, that's it. So, I want to know from the five of you, where are you getting revenue? Because to cut the best staff we have ever had, to cut staff, we're back to 2018.
Does anybody remember? Because half of you weren't here. 2018, we were in our hips up to water and the town manager was saying we didn't have money. Why? What were they cutting? They wanted to cut. They wouldn't vote on the
assessment to run the town and they wanted to cut staff. All right. Half these people on our committees don't know the history of this town and our town needs a lot more
infrastructure. Okay. So, I'm going to say something about all the RVs in the neighborhood. First of all, it's been misrepresented as an RV park. extremely misrepresented going doortodoor
telling people flat out lies. Okay, it is revenue for the town. They are offering revenue. I live next door. I'm going to make a commission once.
This town will benefit for years. I've been making commissions in this town for 10 years and you guys have never Why? >> Why? What? >> Hey guys. Guys, point of order. Point of order. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
Everybody gets their three minutes whether we like it or not or whether you agree with them or not. Every if you if you want to if you want to state your piece and you want to be cordial and whatever, you can fill out a card and you just like anybody else has ever done here. Okay. This is not >> One moment, please. This this is not a
public forum. It's not a workshop. Okay? I respect everyone's right to stand at that podium and speak their mind. Okay? But we need to be respectful of everyone. Okay? Utmost above everything else. You
don't have to agree with anything anyone in this room has to say. Me, Francine, Anita, whomever, the deputy sitting in the car outside, you don't have to agree with what they have to say. But this is the United States of America above all else. And we all have the freedom of
speech and we all have the ability to say what's on our mind. And that's why we live here. Okay? So, please be respectful. And I would I would say the same thing to anybody else that says something to y'all. Okay? This is the third or fourth time this has happened
and it's ridiculous. Let me tell you, around this county and other places, we're a laughingstock. Okay? We're a laughingstock because we cannot sit here and conduct business like grown adults and that's all I'm asking.
Okay. I don't agree with everything any Todd says all the time. Todd and I have you know Anita was just saying last night I said Todd I saying hi and Anita can you guys get along? That's how Todd and I get along. We we got along for years but come on guys. Come on. We're
all neighbors above and beyond. We all have differences of opinion. Okay. and we all have the ability to say them. Thank you. >> May I just have a >> Thank you, Paul. Yes. >> Two more a minute for the heckling. >> Okay. Regarding recreational zoning, you
have the power to lock it in. Okay. Because I'm going to tell you what, AR5 right now. They could build apartment buildings. Yes. On AR5. Check it out because all this hype that you've been
doing, you're you're gonna find that unless you protect this town and bring in zoning that you can't build multiple housing on, that is what we're trying to do here. Okay. The other thing, RVs. How many people have RVs in their backyard
that are renting that are renting to strangers? You do. So, let me explain this. They don't want to tell this town who's in their backyard because that was one of the things that I wanted on the RV project. Okay? That they have to fill
out who is in their backyard. So now anybody in an RV can rent it to anybody. Anybody. So in your next door, you could have your sex offenders. You could have the worst federal prisoners in the world
in your backyard. And Ally, didn't the people in your RV in your backyard during the tornado? They called me. They were in shock. They were almost killed. >> So where was your responsibility to those? >> The respect goes both ways, Phyllis. The
respect both ways. >> Miss Cassie Suchi. Okay. Okay. Please, if you need to have a side conversation, can you do it outside? >> Ladies and gentlemen, >> I'll get you. Cassie Sutco,
>> if you need to have a side conversation, could you please leave the room and be respectful of the person who's at the microphone speaking? Thank you. >> Cassie Suchi, I'm going to read a comment from Kevin Brennan. Dear council members and all residents in attendance, please accept my apologies for not being
present. As everyone in the town has heard, tonight's meeting is very important, and I feel it's important for the reasons I'm outlining. I have been a proud resident of Locket Groves for 16 years. Many of you have been here much longer than I have. I believe firmly that our struggle to keep role zoning
and to keep out lobbyists, grant writers, and consultants has enabled Loxeti Groves to become as desirable as it is today. The reason any company or person would try diligently and incorrectly to locate within our town is a direct result to the hard work of our residents that have put in year after
year. I hear that we need to do this or that. Yet business and people desperately still want to come here. I feel strongly that we in Locket Groves feel strongly all we meeting is very important and I feel it's important for the reasons
I've outlined. I have been a proud I think I'm doubling. I believe for many of you have been here much longer than I I believe firmly that our struggle to keep our zoning is crucial. I hear that we need to do this and that but
it's all messed up. So he just basically says he wants to keep it rural and keep it agriculture. Sorry. Let's stay with what's worked to get us here. Thank you so much for your time, Kevin, but >> Miss Katie Lakeman. >> After Katie Lakeman will be Tracy
Rafowitz and then after Tracy will be Mr. Manosha said, >> Katie Lakeman, 25th Place North. I'm reading for somebody that couldn't be here. Dear council members, it has come to our attention that the town has applied for grants and engaged in lobby
lobbying efforts that would obligate us to take on significant debt, surrender our rural zoning protections, and hand over some home rule authority to outside agencies. This is an unacceptable and directly undermines the values and future of our community. I
respectfully request that the following motions be added to the agenda today. These issues strike at the heart of our budget, threaten our very nature of our rural and equestrian way of life, and endanger the hard-earned property values of our residents and future generations. Will any of you show the courage to
sponsor these motions and make clear who stands with the residents and who stands with special interests? Number one motion to dismiss any existing grants town has applied for or been awarded and freeze all future grants grant activity
that requires the town to take on debt, give up rural zoning or hand over zoning decisions to outside agencies, county, state, or federal. Two. Motion to dismiss any lobbying efforts the town has engaged in and freeze all future lobbying and seeks grants for funding
requiring the town to take on debt, surrender of rural zoning and loss of local zoning control. Three, motion to immediately cease the services of any lobbyists, grant writers, or consultants working on such grants and lobbying
efforts. Four. Motion to prohibit the town manager from engaging in any grant application or lobbying activity without prior council approval and opportunity for public comment. We need every single dollar focused on roads, drainage, and
reserves, not on lobbyists, consultants, grants that sell out our rural zoning. Unfortunately, due to prior commitments, I will not be able to be here. >> Thank you. Thank you, >> Miss Raffleitz. Tracy Rafflitz, 1261 F Road.
Good evening, council, staff, and the residents of the town of Lock Satch Groves. I noticed the RV park is not really being discussed. Kind of is. It hasn't been brought back up. Uh, let's talk RV park. I haven't heard one person that wants this except Phyllis. I think we're opening ourselves up for a big can
of worms by approving it. It's not in the best interest of the town. Just say no. Secondly, the town manager's contract is up for renewal at the end of this month. Yes, she's kept the town solvent, maintained reserves, reorganized staff, and delivered budgets in line with council policy, but
persistent overspending on legal consulting fees, weak contractor oversight, and capital project delays show gaps and execution and accountability. Basically, the town manager is doing b the basics, keeping the lights on, books balanced, but not excelling in
controlling costs or deliver or delivering in infrastructure. What can we do better? Thank you. >> Mr. S. After Mr. S will be Nancy Freed and Deborah Marshall, Janet Ike, Josephiano.
>> Hi, good evening council. I am Manish Sud 3765 EO. Hello neighbors. I'm going to talk about protecting our zoning and protecting our rural future. and we can do it right now. I'm not just going to talk about the problem. I'm
going to give you a specific solution right now. So our town manager and Mr. CFO in their recent presentation on the budget say and you can see it on the internet August 18th advance one of the
budget priorities is advancing southern corridor planning so we can grow tax base responsibly to pay for law enforcement roads drainage and storm systems. Now imagine that chaos that has been unleashed over the last many
months. you know, these are our top management. Um, per day, they cost us $5,000 a day. Them and their immediate uh next people. Uh, so how many days we have wasted on this thing and how many
dollars we have wasted on the RV project. And not only that, we have given litigation openings too. And I know those people are listening. 44 uh 444 B- Road LLC, 556 B Road LLC, soccer stadium and such. So, we have open
litigation um opportunities for these guys. And to make these things interesting, town manager applied for a Florida commerce planning grant. You know what that is? And that was done without any council vote, without any public comments. Did
you even provide any public comments? I never heard of it. I was thankfully Mr. courts gave me a copy just a couple hours ago. I glanced through a couple of pages, but let's be clear here. We are not financially distract distressed mayor and the council members here. Uh,
you know, I am a chair of fact committee. I went through all the papers and I can walk you through the numbers. We are a very solid financial town. We have zero debt. But the problem with us is uncontrolled spending. That's the problem. And here is the risk. Under
Florida statute 288.0656, if an area becomes a rural area of opportunity, what this grant does through state designation, it unlocks statute 1631673.3187 that makes it much easier for developers to push through resonings. And that's
what they're doing. Small scale and land use changes on parcel of 50 or even 100 acres. That's called rural area of opportunity and that opens the door to commercialization of southern boulevard. And remember southern boulevard is not just any local road. It's SR80 a
strategic it's called strategic intramotal system highway that state already views as a major growth corridor. So the moment we do all this which we are doing it creates a vulnerability right and I'm going to talk about specific motions you can all
do today right here and right now >> to stop this and I'll be speaking in the next item. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you >> Miss Freed after Miss Freed and Deborah Marshall Janet Ike. Hi. Can you hear me? Okay. because I was
sat in the back and I couldn't hear a thing. Maybe I'm getting old. Who knows? All right. So, we don't need an RV park. We need a Rubbery Park like a hole in the head. That's the last thing we need.
It'll bring down our properties. You'll have bizarre people living here. There is no such thing as a luxury RV park. I go RVing. There is no such thing as a luxury. They just have luxury prices. It's a dump. And then after that you get the section 8 houses and that's what you
want to do really. So we need an amphitheater. We need a place to gather for holidays, music concerts, riding arenas for shows. We need to become more of a town. We need to we need to know each other. We all have big farms. We
all have big gates. I do. And I don't go out of my gate. I'm busy. But you know, I'd love to go like on the weekend and hear music and and see my neighbors. and I'm sure all of you would. Um, we need a, like I said, a riding arena for our children or for our families. This is an
equestrian community. There's not enough representation on our board for this kind of thing. How many people have a horse? Raise your hand. >> Well, you have some horses. >> I have some. >> Yeah. Okay. All right.
>> I have some. More than one. >> You have more? 12. Okay, that's good. >> Full time I've lived here. >> Well, it's good. But you know, you're not you're not you're not doing anything about it. You're just sitting there. You know, you're listening and you're and you're playing games with all this. Sorry, my phone is off. Whatever.
I apologize. Unbelievable. Deborah Marshall. >> Yes. >> Can't make it up. >> Hi there. Um I thank you. Can be very
brief. Um, Manor Snood did write this wonderful letter and I will say I agree with every single thing he has to say on it, especially with the 10 um, points he has for an action plan. So, my take on the RV thing is um, I have plenty of friends who live in RVs who've been to
these luxury RV sites. They always turn into basically um, low-inccome, highdensity housing is what they become. I am absolutely absolutely against it. I know Phyllis is just passionate about it. Thank you. Um, but she has a vested monetary interest and that's fair. Also,
as far as our taxes going up, absolutely not. Our assessments just went up. Our health insurance just went up. We're being squeezed. We're having to tighten our belts. And guess what? Lockach can tighten their belts as well. So, absolutely no to taxes and absolutely no
to the RVs. Thank you. >> Who's next? Janet Ike. Hello, my name is Janet Ike, 3481 B Road. Sorry I'm so passionate about things, but I have been here for 41
years. I've seen it all and done it all. Okay, we used to ride >> close to the mic. They can't hear you. >> Okay, so I used to ride my horses all the way to Lion Country Safari. You can't do that anymore. Where can you go to ride? I'm with everybody else. Give
us something we're proud of. Other people would like to come to this area because it's beautiful. But they come down the roads. The canals look like third world country. Not saying that our people don't work hard because they do. I know a few of them there. But no RV
park. I used to show horses with people with RVs. I don't like it. I don't like the fact that where are they going to dump their manure? Well, guess what? We're going to have to put a station up. I don't like the fact that we're getting
so commercialized. Let's go back to our homegrown roots. Lots of hatchy. Love it or leave it alone. All right. Thank you, Joe Siciliano. Joe
Joe Siciliano 1530 B Road. I don't even know where to start. Um, so I'm just going to stick with what I came in here to talk about, and that is the idea of not going after 100% fundable grants that the lobbyists have already been
paid for to apply for. And um quite frankly, that's our money. We pay taxes that go into the agencies that give those grants out. And I'd like to see the money come here and not go to another neighborhood. I'd also like to see it go into the things that we need
like the infrastructure and the canals that you're talking about that look so terrible. That's what it's going to be used for. I'm sorry I'm for climpmped. Um, and I feel like if we don't in in not and not thinking forward and not having
long-term vision and just doing all these knee-jerk reactions to the thing that's here right now, we're going to miss when Baxter and the county come for Okobee. The only thing that was going to keep
that from happening was the TPA grant that was $4 million coming to us that got turned down because there was 250 had to be paid back. But those roundabouts would have kept that road quiet and rural like we want it, like
you want it. And instead now we're going to get rid of all grants alto together and and and and what and and what and do what? You know, that's our money. We should go for it because if we don't go get it, somebody else is going to. And
we need to take care of our town from the inside out. We need to be smart, forward thinking, and not reactive on these little things, spending time on this RV park. Clearly, you don't want it because clearly, I mean, I don't know who would stand up here and say they were going to be for it given the way
you behave out there in the crowd. I I I don't think it's a bad idea at all. But I'm the only person I guess brave enough to stand up here and say it because you you people are scary quite honestly. Anyway, I'm just going to stick I I
sorry I regress. No disrespect really. It's just frightening to be up here. It really is. Um but back to grants. I I I'm sure you guys all know that this would be the first time ever since we've been a town that any council has not tried to go after grants. It's just a
ridiculous prospect. It It's I I can't say anymore. Fix this. Fix the town with free money. Our money. Our tax money. Let's go get it. Miss Holding. >> Jane. Holding. >> Harvey. >> Oh, sorry.
>> Holding. >> No. >> Excuse me. Just a second, Jane, before you start. Is this the last one? because we're we're over and I just >> uh we have after her we have the emails that were sent in. >> Okay. So, you'll just read those. Yes. All right. Great. Okay. >> Okay. Jane Harding 3479D
wrote, "What goes with those grants is you have to be very careful. I'm all for grants if they're going to be a positive push for us and not the teeny tiny writing where we have to then give back whatever they demand." That's all I have to say about those grants.
And then if you look at this turnout, it's quite obvious that nobody wants a lot of these things. So I hope to God that people are listening. I have three things. Um it was advertised on the internet for a job and not on the
website. I don't know why. And 33% increases. We also researched that. I guess it's the position of Jeff is being split. I must be working in the wrong field because there's no way in the world I will ever get a 33% incre
increase and I'm in radiology. Okay. Uh the RV park meeting, when is that going to happen? It was cancelled. Very short notice, not a lot of notice. And all I have to say is every single thing that
Manish Suit has researched stated very clearly with a conscience that it is a spending problem and not a revenue. I completely second every single thing he says. He's brilliant.
>> I received another public comment from Mr. Lawrence Gaines. Do you want to accept it? Yeah. >> Please come forward. >> Mayor, >> Mr. Gains. >> Gain. >> Yes, sir. >> Thank you, sir. >> Yep.
>> You're talking about agenda items and this is nonaggenda stuff, >> right? I understand. >> First say, good evening to everyone. Uh, actually, I was under the impression that we're going to be talking about taxes. I was under impression that we'll
be talking about t property taxes but we're not talking about >> and that that's the next sir that's the next meeting that's when that comment if your comment is on property taxes it would be for we have to end this meeting and then you'll have the opportunity to talk on that >> okay
>> this is my RV so this is perfect >> okay just making sure you're talking at the right time okay >> uh I happen to been I've been living in lost hatch for 40 years and this RV park
happened to be right like 50 ft from my home. So, actually I don't want to have it there. I talked with the people who going to develop this. They want to put their substation right next to my house.
So, I don't need that. Plus the fact that I'm I'm accustomed to quietness. I hear horses. I hear the cows every once in a while. And I don't need to have traffic going in and out by my home. I don't need that. I don't think no one
here, a lot of people here who spoken about it, you don't live as close as I do. So you got a you got a you got your complaint, but I got a real complaint >> because I'm going to be right there in
the midst of it. And so, uh, when they put this area there years ago, I spoke with the the people when they were doing it was a a retaining area for water and keep the area from flooding. So, let's
keep it like that. And on Tangerine, I'm already dealing with tractor trailers going in and out, passing me by. So, now that's another issue, but that's another discussion for another day. But we need to keep everything
north of Tangerine. Just get keep it with homes. Uh acre and a quarter, five acres, whatever it might be. But RV, we definitely don't need that. Anybody who has RV, they only have one, but we're talking about 285.
That's a big big difference. Big difference. So, let's use some uh not that not I'm saying that everyone is intelligent here, but let's use some common sense. Just use common sense because now we're
talking about a hotel right up the street from me. So, that's going to bring in more traffic. So, we don't need additional traffic. And right now, oh, I had a hard time just getting out on Southern to come here today because I got to go down to Frank Forest and make
a U-turn to come back. So, it's going to it's going to create chaos. And some people may not see it like that, but I can see it like that. >> Okay. I received an email from Cheryl Reid uh stating, "I am pleased to have
Miss Kennedy represent me in my effort to subdivide my property located at 935C Road, Lockache Groves, FL 33470. In doing so, I authorize you to speak candidly on my behalf to the officials of the town of Lockahhatche Groves. Is Miss Kennedy in the building?"
Okay. Let the record show. Uh I received an email from Monica Weber. Uh, it has been determined that this email will not be read into the record as it is considered inflammatory per resolution
number 2024-20. And that is all. >> Thank you. Okay, I need a motion to approve the agenda. >> Approve the agenda. >> Mayor, I have a modification to the order. Okay,
we want to change item number five to item number seven. Item number six to item number five. Item number seven to item number six. Anyone need me to repeat that >> one more time, please? Sorry. >> Okay. Item number five is now item
number seven. Item number six will be item number five. Item number seven will be item number six. Is that it? >> Yes. >> Okay. Motion to approve the agenda.
>> Motion to approve. >> All in favor? >> Opposed. Okay. Passes five to zero. We have a presentation of the storm water drainage status of water control plan. >> Good evening. Thank you very much. This
is Randy Wepney with Keshervars and Associates just giving an update of where we sit with storm water in general um for the town. Valerie, if you don't mind, could you start on actually page 39? Um 39 is really the uh more important part of this this
presentation. This was part of the uh public outreach meeting number two as far as resilient Florida, but really want to get to the uh the results and the recommendations. So, a lot of this has uh come a long way. Everyone is aware, at least on town council, that
we've obtained a vulnerability assessment grant through the Resilient Florida program. We've been evaluating storm events within the town and uh our we have made our draft presentation to
FT or at least the analysis uh earlier this month. So that has been sent in and we are ready to start exploring some of the results with the town. what are the uh impacts to the town and what can the
town do to help protect themselves for these future storm events. Um but we also didn't just look at these 100redyear 500year larger future events. We also modeled some other events. Actually council member Coleman
suggested do you have anything that can resemble Isaac? We do now have a storm that closely resembles Isaac that believe it or not a 25-year design storm has a very similar dist rainfall distribution. So that has been added. So we have a way to calibrate and compare
some results to what may have been experienced um I think it was 2012 for for for Isaac. So that's that's been added to the model as well. And uh in general there are a handful of things that we've really noticed. There's areas
of concern. Most of these aren't surprises for the town storage. The the town only has a certain amount of assets to store storm water outside of private residences, which is why the flood plane issues exist, why FEMA has mapped the
flood plane in the town to be most of the town. We have the canal system and then whatever is on the property. So when the town operates primarily only the canal system for storage that's showing that that is an area of concern for the town conveyance
not because of canal conveyance. Canal conveyance actually can move quite a bit of the water. It's that you really have one primary outfall at Dro in Southern Boulevard and you have you have uh seven different canals that are distributing the water from the north end of the town
to the south end of the town. So, it just takes a long time to get to that discharge spot. Um, so we've looked at a a few ideas that could could help with that. And then of course the operational challenges of the the dual use of your
storm water management system, the irrigation needs that you have in the dry seasons compared to the the drainage discharge that you need during the wet season or during some of those larger storm events which primarily is is
controlled or or is uh limited to what the C-51 can accept from from the town. Okay. All right. So, some of the recommendations that we were we were looking at in here is upsizing a few of
your your undersized culverts that you have in the town, adding storage, whether it's widening canals, working with private partnerships, acquiring land. Um, that's something that is that uh might have to happen at some point in
the near future. In addition to to that, there is water quality benefits that you can obtain from storage facilities throughout the town. Valerie, could you go to the next slide, please? Okay.
Do you have a mouse I can borrow? That's clicker. >> Awesome. Okay. All right. So again, we we did look at the uh 10-year model for the existing conditions. The reason why we looked at that model is it really is a way to calibrate our model compared to the C-51 studies that we have. So it was
really just a basis. There were nine critical assets that were identified that's associated with the study. In addition to that, um the public brought up uh certain other assets and through the through the um
gosh the um the committee that was uh the steering committee for the vulnerability assessment. Roads was decided maybe the best way to uh evaluate the rest of the town making sure the town has protection of the roads because they can't provide
protection on on private property. only the canal system and the roads associated with that. Okay, so the roads have been added to the analysis as well. We'll show you a PDF that's looking at those as a critical asset in
uh in a moment. So they were also categorized based on various risk factors. So we established criteria. It's in the vulnerability assessment. I believe this has been sent to all of the council members and I'm not sure if it's available online at this time yet, but
uh yeah. Okay. So, a risk factor has been assigned based on the depth of water flooding, how long the roadway or another asset could be flooded. This is just an example of one of the maps that we have for it during different uh storm
events. Okay, so just the larger the storm event, the more water in the event that there is climate change and sea level rise. Is there going to be a direct impact to the town on sea level rise? No. However, the C-51 discharges to the
ocean. Therefore, there is an impact and our tail water goes up. So, it's something that is evaluated to uh that side of things. Valerie, could you switch to that PDF for me if you don't mind? Okay.
Um, currently staff has been working towards a handful of grants. For the last few years, staff has been going after Resilient Florida grants. There has been a grant program or the deadline was on Monday. So on Labor Day this year
was the the date they were due. um staff has applied for four grants associated with that that are based on some of the some of the uh proposed improvements identified during the study. So that is something that is being pursued um on
those grants. They are uh the state does request that there is a local match for those grants. However, the fact that you are a rural community and have that designation in the past, you've been able to negotiate either a lower or no match for various grants. So, that is
still available for consideration. And if I'm not mistaken, staff is also working towards RIFF grants to be uh submitted this week, which is the rural infrastructure fund. I'm not familiar
exactly which department of the state that it's through and those are complete um grants from soup to nuts design to construction. Okay. There are a handful of other things that
are associated to storm water, not necessarily looked at during this vulnerability assessment that we wanted to keep in your minds. And that is the uh rights of way and easements. rights of way are still limited in the town and I know that you're doing everything you
can trying to obtain easements for canal conveyance or whether if it's storage or other aspects but that's something that still needs to be uh looked at and acquired where and when you can the town has a lot of secondary drainage systems
so it's something that the town council should consider or could consider I shouldn't say should could consider um what operation and maintenance responsib ibility you want to have in those secondary drainage systems. For instance, just a simple example, you
have off of off of B-roll, there's a handful of roads on the east side south of Okachchobee, I think Los Angeles, San Diego, you have maybe 20 lots, probably less than 20 lots from Okchobee to the eastern terminus of those roads.
They rely all on a rear lot drainage swale to transfer the water from one end to the other that are recorded in easements. Uh well, it was an unrecorded plat and most of the warranty deeds reference those easements. However, is
that something that the town in that example wants to take over the responsibility for? Do they have the responsibility the way those easements are written as well? So those are just things to consider um as far as secondary impacts, what you would like
to consider for that operation and maintenance concerns. Through the vulnerability assessment, you now have a database with all of the assets that were assessed in the field, put in an inventory, so you can utilize for your own operation and maintenance. You can
have a checklist. There are ways that you can update that in the field or in the office based on reinspections and uh routine maintenance and observations. And then uh land acquisition and the flood plane are two big concerns.
During some of those larger storm events, you do have standing water. It can impact other residents. So managing the flood plane is something that uh we recommend that you continue to do. And then as well as acquire any land
possible, large amounts of land to provide storage, water quality treatment. It's something that you're going to need in the future, especially with uh the state new water quality criteria that they've uh enforced. Actually, it's will be in full force by
December 28th of this year. If you don't have your for any resident of the town that's trying to build something that requires a permit through the through South Florida Water Management District, if they don't have a complete application by December 28th, the
nutrient removal criteria kicks in. So, it's uh it's some changes that are coming and that might impact the town in addition to the MPDS measures. So, at this point, I'd like to ask anybody if they have any questions from
council. >> Any council questions? >> I did. >> Well, Lisa said she did first. Ladies first. You sure >> you put on and she said she did. >> Well, she said she did. I thought she was hunting something. So, I
>> sounded like everything. Would you like to let Paul go first since he put his head? >> Okay. All right. Um, you talk about secondary sources. I know, you know, just as a drive down any major lettered road, you know, about every 30 acre lot
or so, there's a historical ditch that and most of them that haven't been that haven't been filled in 20 30, you know, um you talk about the ones on the rear of the lot, etc. Are those are those east west >> primarily >> ditches? Are they are they easement
easements as well or are they >> are they those are just deed to the land owner? >> A vast majority are in easements. Whether the easements are dedicated to the public or not is >> takes some more research. >> Yes, it it takes more research. The only thing that we can uh review is what's on
the warranty deeds unless you do a title search for that. Um, we have presented uh town with a lot of the warranty deeds that that were available on Papa's records. So, there is a PDF database that you have of the various easements throughout throughout the town.
>> I know cuz when we first started talking about oh we the royal we I guess when they first started talking about uh catch basins versus small culverts to discharge into the canal etc. when we're talking about paving. Um, you know, that was something I brought up that, you
know, we I don't didn't know why we're putting in all these catch basins. When we have every every cladded lot east, you know, going south or north, there's generally a ditch that's connected that was there, should have been there, might be filled in, you know, whatever.
>> My neighbor clinic, Koosa, is in the one between our properties, >> right? So, I mean, that's that's I mean, we're looking at ways to, you know, either, you know, store water, you know, retain it, detain it, or move it, right? Those are the three top top picks, right? Yes, sir.
>> So, either detain, retain, or move. >> So, I, you know, that's, you know, I was just curious if we, you know, how we stand on that. So, if it takes more research, and I guess it's more research, the more dang money, right? um flood map, FEMA flood map versus
actual I know in my own experience I've seen some spots where it's not as accurate. >> Have you found that within the groves? I mean, it hasn't been in the groves. Let me just say that. I mean, I've been standing in a cypress head that's marked exone. So,
>> correct. And uh FEMA did redo the maps in 2017. So, they updated those based on LAR information that they had at the time. Um, we've used the latest and greatest LAR information that was flown in, I believe it was flown in 2017,
published in 2019 by Palm Beach County. So, the vulnerability assessment that we're using, we're using a little bit more accurate LAR information uh for the analysis. Uh it's going to change as property owners develop and move things
around. If they didn't follow the state the state requirements of providing that flood plane compensating storage, the flood plane could change a little bit. But a more important thing to keep in mind with is the town has not experienced that uh 1% chance flood,
what we consider a 100red-year flood in in quite some time. Looking back, I think 1987 was the only other time where you had the rainfall similar to Isaac, which is a 4% chance flood. So, you're looking at 12 inches of rainfall as
compared to a 17 inches of rainfall. Those five extra inches of rainfall when everything's already saturated is a significant difference specifically on those lower lying areas throughout the town. So just and the one one of the the
Okach the canal in Okachobee that runs east and west that's a county canal. Do we do we discharge into that? Does that or that just is that the county's conveyance? It doesn't really connect. >> It does connect there. They connect to
the north south culverts that cross Okachobee Boulevard. Those culverts if I'm not mistaken were installed by the county. I am not certain if sometime after they were installed, they were transferred to the water control district. If they were, I don't have any
records of that. I'm just saying that that could be a possibility. I I am not aware. I'm assuming that those are Palm Beach County because the permit information that I have is Palm Beach County installed them and they have T's >> in the actual actually it's a cross.
They put a a fitting >> in the covert that's buried. There's a 84 inch culvert or 96. There are 96inch culverts that go north and south underneath Okachobee with a cross that have smaller culverts tied in where the ditch on the south side of Okchobee
Boulevard connects directly to that. So Okachobee Boulevard drains to your system. It is part of your overall surface water management system. If I'm not mistaken, the water control district and the town consider those ditches Palm Beach County responsibility as it
discharges the county's road and it ties into your system. If I'm not mistaken, those culverts are the are considered the responsibility of the county and your responsibility is north of those culverts and south. >> Okay. So I now just to kind of
>> okay >> bring it back. So you know and and that on that effort you know that that takes a lot of communication between you know Mr. want and and uh the powers of be I can't remember is it road and bridge
>> David Ricks as to how often it's maintained how it's maintained etc right because the county is just going to maintain it how they're going to maintain it basically am I correct Richard so I mean we could take a look at those canals too and say you know as we're looking at our canals and say well you know these could be a tad deeper they could be dug out they could be you
know these culverts are etc so that takes a lot of effort I guess is where I'm going that takes a lot communication between Richard and say it again >> David >> David Ricks I keep I don't know why I want to mix the the first letter so you know or you know a lot of efforts you
know going going and politicking the the the I don't want to use the L word because it's a bad word you know politicking to the county saying hey listen we need some assistance here this is your canal you know we need some maintenance etc um that being said when
we look look at at these cross canals and and and you know the work that needs to be done that has not been done. you know, if it's if it's decided that it's, you know, um it's going to take a herculean effort basically, right? It's a lot of digging, a lot of removing of
soil and vegetation, etc. like that, right? To to make these to where they would work properly and benefit us. >> Correct. >> Is that your assessment? >> We need to Okay. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Okay, >> Lisa. So, uh, this isn't so much for you,
Randy, except on on slide 39 where you were talking about increasing the size of culverts and then the next sentence was decreasing the size of culverts on north and south canals. Can can you explain that? >> Yes. So the decreasing size of culverts is intended for the the regulation that
was established years ago with the water control district where a 96-inch culvert has to be installed south of Okachchobee Boulevard and a 72in culvert is installed north of Okachchobee Boulevard in the event that a property owner wants to install a driveway connection across
the canal. So that's something that not every covert in place in the town meets those standards. Most of those were installed before this uh criteria was established. So it can be looked into to
maybe not install a 96in culvert if it's not needed. You now have a comprehensive model that can be used to evaluate whether or not it's an it's needed in specific locations. >> Okay. >> So that would be to save that residents money in putting in a culprit. They
would put in a smaller culprit. Is that >> Oh, I understand. And I'm asking a question. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm piggybacking off your question. Just to clarify. So, it's an it's an part of an effort to reduce the costs to land owners who are trying to replace, repair, or install a culvert.
>> Yes. For the town andor property owners. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> But specifically, your first sentence says increase the size of culverts and your second sentence says decrease the size of culverts. >> Yes. Because there are a handful of culverts found throughout the town that are smaller than what they need to be. and through the modeling analysis they
are actually there is a lot of head loss between those. So there the hydraulic gradient's much higher. If that um if that pipe size is increased it can release a lot of that water and allow it to discharge faster. So it is not a cart blanch if you will all of the culverts
north and south of Okachobee. It would be a casebycase scenario that could be looked at. All right this needs to get upsized. This needs to get decreased. >> Okay. We did run a model where we upsized um every culvert that was less than 72
in in the main canals only in the main canals and uh brought them to 72 in and it showed a significant uh improvement. However, that's not a casebyase scenario. And so we would absolutely want to look at look at it that way. If
you're near North Road and uh the canal system during these larger events are only moving a little bit of water, it's not going to be as uh critical to have that 72-in covert at that location. It could be considered to a 60 or maybe
even change the material to increase the uh the capacity by lowering the amount of losses you have in that system. >> Okay. >> That pipe. And then you also made the comment or it was on that slide that conveyance from north to south. It was my understanding that obviously the south gets much more impact generally
speaking because of the the design of the canals being deeper to the south. So what is the concern that you have found that there's a problem conveying water from north to south that >> well uh maintenance is uh the the biggest reason that we're finding on
that and it's it's uh over time the canals they fill up the sediment builds up and there are a handful of locations south of Okachchobee Boulevard that are not at the design section where they should be. So where you look at the canal on the surface, you know, part of
this was to take canal cross-sections and identify the areas where you do have sediment buildup. So removing the sediment buildup from from that area would definitely improve capacity. >> Okay. And I think we talked a little bit at a previous meeting about the fact
that the existing weir structures along Okachobee have been gone for now 21 years. And uh as we look at the impact on the south end of town of the flooding and yet we have no ability to slow the
flow so to speak from the north to south >> um especially with the one outflow addressed at Dro. >> Uh would it be prudent to spend money along that area first and and prioritizing some of these processes where we could literally get the most
bang for the buck? Mhm. >> Is are we seeing that from this study? >> Yes. The uh the biggest bang for your buck is is storage specifically at the outfall location. One of the challenges you have during a storm event is getting
the water the time it takes to get to your outfall to discharge. Um, by putting a a storage basin very close to the outfall, you don't have all those losses and you're able to discharge more water faster and maximize the gravity structure that you have. We did notice a
benefit by adding those we back at Okchobee Boulevard and that's actually uh one of the projects that was submitted to Resilient Florida because it does show a fairly significant benefit for a large portion of the town. Um, you can hold water back to the north
side of the town, which seems to have a harder time getting water in the dry season for irrigation purposes. And it does give you the opportunity during the wet season if you wanted to consider lowering the canal stages south of Okchobee. That could get you free
storage, if you will. >> Sure. >> Well, cheap storage. Sure. Nothing's free, but >> a lot cheaper than purchasing the land. >> Sure. Um, and I believe that historically there was a second pump at D and Okchobee. Um, and that of course
got taken out many moons ago, but um, and I understand the pump at Dro and Southern only pulls water from C-51 into our system. Would there be a benefit to create a two-way option there that that
would force water out versus just gravity flow at that location? >> Yes. Uh uh as far as storm water management, having a pump system is going to give you a lot of operational capacity instantaneously.
>> And how does that how does that change versus the idea of just paying for passive storage land at that location? >> Okay, that is something I would have to look into. I know it has helped significantly in other municipalities where we've installed the pump systems.
In this case, Lockxahhatche Groves does have a benefit that that others do not have and that is you are typically much higher than the C-51 canal. So, you do have the you you have a benefit and the
ability to utilize just head differential to push the water out through a gravity structure which >> but not when there's a storm. We know when there's a storm, everybody else is pumping water into the C-51 and we have to wait >> and we're and gravity flow or not, we're still waiting.
>> We we can absolutely look into a a pump system. It is going to be very beneficial specifically during larger storm events. And then again, you get instant capacity to that canal. >> Okay. Thank you. And I know um
Anita, you had brought up the um the F road in was it FNO? Folsam and 25th. Did you ever find out more about the size of that pipe and the flow there? >> Yeah, we actually had Randy run engineering studies and they they
confirmed that that is a sufficient size culver. And interestingly enough, we I have the complaint from that gentleman who was here that night, which has been kind of an ongoing picture sending complaint thing. But I also, interestingly enough, today received an email from someone else in the area thanking me for for for us getting that
done and, you know, wondering when we were going to start paving the roads around there, too. So, um, so, so, you know, it's that two sides of every story kind of thing. Yeah. No, I just didn't know the status of >> that one man does remain convinced that it's created a problem, but Randy has
confirmed with engineers. >> We know engineers are always right. >> Right. Well, >> I didn't say that for the record. >> Guess it remains to be seen when there's a storm, but we did we did confirm. That's that's the best we can. >> So, and I look forward to discussing the secondary drainage impacts when we get
to some some of the numbers deeper into the agenda. >> Okay, I think you were next. So the ditches that Paul was talking about every 20 acres that was actually those were dug by the district >> decades ago and there was a special assessment for that and the special
assessment was an extremely high amount for back when it happened. Um so I would imagine there's probably easements on those if the district did it most likely. Um I know the paperwork was here >> back years ago. I don't know if Richard has seen it. Um I know when Bill Underwood was here we actually looked at
some of it. So it was definitely done with a special assessment. >> So we uh searched the county records for any easement that was recorded to the town or the water control district. It's plotted on a map. So you have access to those and it's uh based on uh the or
booking page if you will and the property address. So anything that was recorded is on that list. Anything that or is on that database if you will. Anything that was not um hopefully uh it still can be recorded. I mean, it was like in the 40s. It was a long time ago,
>> so it may not have been. >> You said decades, and I'm like thinking that was like historical. Wow. >> Long time. >> Um, I don't know if Richard can answer this or or who can answer this. >> The outfall of the gates at Dro, what is the GPM versus the pump capacity? Just
to give us an idea of what we would need pumping capacity wise. >> Okay. So, >> a lot. >> It'd probably take 10 of those pumps, right? >> Well, >> it would be a lot. >> Yeah. I'm not sure what that is. It would be a massive pump cuz you're going to be looking at about 330 CFS. So,
you're looking at a pump station that probably has three pumps. Two would be uh operational. You'd start with a half of the the flow, have a third one or a second one for the second half of the flow and a third one in case one of them breaks so you're not, you know, stuck
without that. And then you could also have gravity operations at that pump station as well. Uh we did one in Westgate probably 10 years ago for when it was installed and at the time that was about a $4 million project. So
you're looking at something that's going to cost uh much more than that today. So you know consider it 8 to 10 to to get that uh installed for you. But it is it is a massive structure. >> That's my point is using the gravity to
our advantage is drastically the way to go rather than trying to pump it. the the cost is >> and and very rarely did does it even out, >> right? that happens on a regular >> I was just gonna say we're restricted on discharge >> problem I'm sure this town had during
Irene took the governor's intervention to tell the water imaged by your permit >> we're restricted yep on discharge >> and then my next question is I don't know if anybody's looked at it on a-ro and fol that canal that connects to C-51
there's a lot of uh covert between there. Has anybody looked at that structure and see how full of silt it is and that sort of thing? And are they pretty clean? >> Well, I haven't seen the bottom of it. I can tell you the water definitely moves because we drained. So when our contractor was replacing the
full summer 25th and it brought the effing collecting to um where they were supposed to start that work there and then the railroad crossing thing happened. Uh we actually trained uh Falsam from 25th to Southern and from
Fro to uh our our collecting can now to Ephro so we could start we actually removed sediment from uh falls from us then went west until all the rain started and stopped that project. Um and we we were able to get the water levels
down to the level of the C51 canal. We got it down to 11 ft. >> Yeah. I had problems and there was still I mean we obviously couldn't get in there because I didn't have equipment to get in to the actual culbert at both gate but I can tell you the water does go there and probably another four feet
5T below the C-51 elevation water elevation which at that time is around 10 and a half ft. >> Yeah, I've seen it flowing through there myself and it does flow. My question is it hasn't been cleaned in probably decades. Right. So that's my point is even though it might be flowing a
tremendous amount, it might be able to do double or triple that as well. >> I guess the plus side is it's a smaller one, right? So when it does flow and it flows hard, >> I don't know what the size is. They're pretty good size. >> Is 96 >> and and they're very long and the longer
you get the more shre you are even that size. >> You got scuba tanks in the splunking eight inches 8t in diameter. No, >> I can ro it, right? >> Yeah, I know, right? >> Paul here.
>> Yeah. Last, sorry. Um, just question. Uh, we talked about direct discharge already. So, um, just to give an idea, Richard, if you if you know the when we're sitting at our max level that we like to sit at at Dro
and collecting, which is how how >> 16 feet >> 16 feet, right? >> NAVD. So >> G and G. >> So that's that's >> 14 feet and a half. >> So that's 16 feet above, right? So
do we know what the depth is to the top of the silt? From the top of the water to the top of the sill? We looking at four feet? We looking at 5T, 6 feet? >> It depends on where you're at in the town. >> Just just for let's dro and collecting canal right where we measure it.
>> I haven't personally been out there. Well, we got the crosssections. We got Look at the cross. >> Yes, there's a lot of sil that's that's where I'm That's kind of where I'm getting. We're talking about compensatory storage. Impossible. Go ahead. >> I I can tell you we from the section we when we drained it down and started digging it out, we probably removed a
good four feet of silk between uh Fro and as far west as we got, >> right? And that's a good representation >> of the whole town >> down because that that basically is at the same level across collecting canal is at the same level. I guess that's my point. We're we're talking about compensatory storage,
right? And we're talking, you know, being able to hold water and better spent money, etc. And I know I sound like a broken record because people said heard me say this for years, but those locks need to be there. Um, you know, and whether it's a in conjunction, we were speaking a couple meetings ago,
whatever about, you know, who owns those coverts and whatever Randy spoke about earlier, you know, whether it's a conjunctive effort with Palm Beach County or whatever, the ability to hold water there is vital. Um we can we can you know we in lie of purchasing
property because when we talk about purchasing property Ry's not talking about you know moving public works and that little lot being a pond right it's we're talking about a decent sized pond correct >> correct >> tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of gallons of water right
>> so you know I think >> when we focus you know we get toward you know actually digging out getting to the bottom and digging out these these canals and making them deeper. And if we're holding it 16 foot and we're sitting at four and we got six more foot
of silt underneath it or four foot of silt, you know, that's another 4 foot of >> We used that years ago. Remember we got a grant to build the independent water control district. That's what bought the thingama digger. Um and uh and they dug out >> Yeah. And it it
>> a road and and another canal. They dug out like >> that started the whole duck puddle. So, so clearing the canals and getting the sediment out is going to help with the conveyance, but as far as storage because your groundwater, you would have to lower your groundwater, >> right,
>> to actually get that extra storage. So, that's where it's uh yeah, it'll it'll only really help you with conveyance unless you you lower that control. >> So, right now, the only thing we've looked at is lowering it a foot. it could be looked at lowering it further um on the south side, but at the same
token, you're balancing you have a all most of your residents are on potable water wells, right? >> Your fire protection into the uh into the canal system. So, >> it's a fine balance if if it's decided to to lower the canals. >> Okay. And as Randy had mentioned earlier
with the South Florida Water Management District rules, um at some point South Florida Water Manage is going to knock on our door and say, "What are you doing about uh nutrient loading?" >> Um so we're at some point the town will have to buy this property
>> to and it has to be around the discharge points because they're worried about nutrient loading going to into their canal right >> into the C-51. So we will have to build similar to what Wellington has done off Flying Cow Road um and have to be scaled for the three discharge points that we
have to be able to treat that water and and at that point you can also double it as storage. But at some point this town will have to buy some type of property to do the to clean the water to treat the water before it discharges the Z-51 or South Florida Water Man water management is going to say can't
discharge. >> Do we know what our nutrient levels are? Uh we I South Florida Water Man should test them that I have to get the data from. >> Was it ugly? What does it look like? >> I don't know. I haven't gotten the phone. >> So we have no idea. >> To clarify a few points.
>> One thing I know when I was >> uh spoke with the Department of Commerce on Monday of last week, that was something that they were speaking about too was the water nutrients before the end of this year. They're very hot and heavy on that >> because because the C-51 basin um as
Randy had indicated goes east for the most part, but it can also is set up to go west to the STAs. So our discharge waters can go to their STAs and those STAs discharge into the Everglades >> and that's what they're concerned about other >> we've heard this for years now. This
isn't new and it comes a bigger problem as we create more and more impermeable surfaces with the paving. So that that was always an argument on the concerns about >> paving and water polishing and all that stuff. So I'm just curious. I don't
think I've ever heard the numbers. >> Well, I can contact them. I know they come out because they they do their testing right at at the D road gate. >> Do it on the break. Find it. I'll try to get it from them. >> Thank you. >> And just to clarify real quick on South Florida. So the newer rules with
nutrient removal or South Florida is going to affect new permits. It's um the existing permit the town has is is not going to be impacted until you want to modify your permit. If it's substantial enough, they may consider it. You're
still going to um anybody that's coming in within the town with uh that needs a permit is going to have to meet those criteria. NPDS is the program where the nutrients are going to impact the town at some point in time. the last time
that FD designated the town, we were able to uh work with them and show how the town was exempt. I don't think based on the same criteria, you would not be able to qualify for that today. So, I just wanted to clarify the South Florida
Water Management District new criteria is not going to impact the town's current system right now based on these rules. It's for new permits only, but the MPDS will it'll be very similar. Is there any possibility in the near future we might have to update that permit and
should we do it before December? >> Uh to update a permit of that magnitude before December, it's a it's a six to seventh month process. The likelihood of getting that done now is going to be difficult. However, we can still modify
it within certain rules and parameters in the as far as the town. You're not changing your land use. you know, your land use is uh with the exception of somebody coming in from a taking a property that is fully developed and turning it into um whichever they're
building out of it. Um the the way that the town operates, let's say 50% of the land is already developed within the town. I'm not sure of the exact numbers. All of that land use is essentially staying the same. So, South Florida is really focused on when you change the
land use, what is the impact to the nutrients? Right now, the C-51 West is not designated as an impaired basin. So, you have that in your favor. However, discharging to the west being a outstanding Florida waters because it
ultimately goes to the Everglades, that's something that uh why South Florida is concerned about where we actually discharge Okay. Do we have any public comment on this item? >> Thank you. >> Yes. And before we do, just uh for the
public certification, the draft vulnerability assessment report is on the town's website. Just go under departments, planning and zoning, and it's on the green column on the left. Uh, Virginia Standish >> under if you go to departments under
planning and zoning, there's a green column on your left and you'll see the draft report there. When you click on that link, there's a bunch of documents listed and we also have it um at the front desk for the public to view it because it's pretty hefty document.
>> Virginia Standish Northread, thank you for that update. It was one of my questions. Um, comment on the one thing I really haven't heard addressed too much in all this flood plane water discussion is the issue with back five or back parcels.
You can have a 20 acre parcel running front and back draining into the canals, but right next door could be a back five that cannot drain into a canal. And as an example, I'll use a property on B- Road. It's a
20 acre property. Yes, it has it its own ditch, but it takes its pipe and then it puts it in its de next door's neighbor's ditch and drains into the canal. Yet the person in the back, the back 5acre property was told to pull and I get it.
Gentleman agreement back in the day that's over. Now it's apparently every property owner for themselves. They were told to pull their culvert and yes, they could probably run uh a long uh drainage ditch down to uh the canal. But what I'm
seeing in general in all this discussion, there's no solid discussion of these back acreage properties. You're talking about front properties, this property, you know, this this main road, but you still got an issue with water on
back parcels, no matter what size they are. Um the other question um I have is or I would like to hear the town council and staff at some time discuss why the town isn't participating in the FEMA community rating system. It's my
understanding that the town is not. Um thank you Valerie again for addressing that the cash of our presentation is online. Um when will the town be updating the flood insurance maps? I haven't heard anything mentioned about that and all of our issues about water.
Um, and maybe you could share the last time they were done. And I guess what I'm really wondering is in all this discussion, should we just scrap this program and should we all just be going to South Florida Water Management District for pulling our permits? I'm just it seems
it gets more convoluted and more convoluted and more costly and we're stacking and stacking but the basics aren't getting done like for the FEMA. People are trying to get their FEMA insurance and again we're hearing you're not
participating in the community plan. I I think more information needs to come out to the public. Thank you, Nina Corning. Hi Nina Corning 2834E road. Um I was probably one of the few people that participated in your little um water
resilience quest. Um did we have a hydraologist work on this at this point or are we still without hydraologist study? Well, do we actually have an hydraologist trained engineer or just a
civil engineer working on this? >> Okay. Um, the other thing is that, you know, you can't look at maps. You expect them to be part of the agenda, but with the presentation, they're not there. There two agenda items that get warnings
when you try to open them. I'm not going to warn them open those when they get those kind of warnings. I don't know what's going on on the website and for me to go and look into Palm Beach zoning on the green column and after the fact really limits me in my ability to make comments. Um, in reference to Irene and
what happened back then, we actually had issues uh with the culverts under Okchobee because they were too small. And while we want to keep our water on the northern side, the uh when we had
that storm, um we had flooding coming out because people were back other towns were back pumping. Towns that are lower than us and for some reason didn't get any water apparently right next to us were back pumping into uh the natural
area. I have that on good authority. And we got paid um our independent water district got paid um 90% from to to put in that burm um around the natural area. We should probably check into what's
happening with that burm before the next rain event. Make sure that's still in good condition because what happened when everybody back pumped it flowed straight out of it into E and North Road canal and then flooded the rest of us and that was part of the problem. Then
it hit Okachchobee culvert and didn't manage to get through the Okachchobee culvert. I did ask Steve Yohi back then whether it was a problem because he went into all the culverts and checked what was grown in and had issues that he said that wasn't the case in this particular
case. It is just unders sized. So the idea of restricting flow to go to go south and keep it north to flood the people in the north. There's something wrong with that that that
point. Um I'm a little concerned as I was last time when you are trying to get um retention for the town on private property that property that hasn't been actually purchased through easements
that may not be right along the rightway. Um for the reason and even along the rightway quite frankly because even along the rightway you're having issues. People have built their farms and they have invested massive amount of time and I think I lost my time when I
you answered that question. Is that correct? Did you stop the clock >> when you asked what question? >> The question about >> No, you were that's part of your time. >> Oh, I see. Okay. Well, I think um you are you need a hydraologist. You need to
give the plants up there properly. You need to make sure that um we retain our water when we are supposed to retain our water at the proper levels. Um we need the we need to go and see when we get
any land that does hold water that it is um not in peacemail where then town officials traps all over our land or grab part of our land. we have invested our infrastructure in our infrastructure in our farms and it isn't a little bit
um and the idea that you are adding more whether it's RV parks or commercial that have impaired water and they write in there impaired water you can look at the Aldi property that that the the that
development and you see all over it impaired water this is working itself into canal and then you're blaming agriculture. >> We need to let other people >> for our impaired waters in the end. And you want all of us, the farmers and the
residents, to pay for the damage that has been caused by allowing these developments. It's it's it's it's incredible. >> Thank you. >> We're rule. We're rule. A and re That's what we are. Remember that. >> Who's next?
>> Cassie Suchi. Cassie Suchi, there's a proposed $133,000 for drainage on Tangerine, and this resident is wondering if there's any money set aside for drainage on Citrus Drive East. According to them, the road has been raised a minimum of 12 in with
dirt and now pavement on top and there's large amounts of water now draining into the properties in East Citrus from Lena who lives over in that area. As for the inflammatory email that was not read into the record, I did text it out to 200 people into the town to decide.
After I read it, I would imagine it was only inflammatory to anybody doing wrong. So, please in the future, don't censor us. Ally Dailyaly. >> Hi, I'm Ally again. Um, I just had a question and a comment. So, um, I spoke
with Matthew Schwarz, who's the director of the environmental organization that the dist did the study on the proposed RV park property above and beyond there being um, protected gopher tortoises, scrub jays, and blue jays. I'm sorry. and um endangered critically endangered
snakes. Uh he said that it's the more northernmost tip of the Ever Everglades and it's really as he described it kind of a jewel of wetlands, probably one of the last areas of wetlands in all of Palm Beach County. And in his opinion,
we should be doing everything we can to protect those wetlands because they're so rare in our county. My question alto also relates to what you guys were just talking about with the water because these are wetlands and
because that land holds so much water to me if that was cleared and paved to a great extent that's going to significantly affect the holding and distribution of all that water. So, um, as he described to me,
that's another reason why he felt that we should protect it because it is such an important part of the wetlands being the northern kind of most tip of the Everglades. So, I just want to know if all these studies that are being done,
if the land that's actually holding water as a wetland is being taken into consideration and if that is annihilated, how is that going to cause a domino effect to everything else in our community? That's it.
Anybody else? technical difficulty. >> Yeah. >> Seemed to be part of the choice. Are we good? >> Yeah. >> Get the recording back on. >> Valerie, do we have another um any more
public comments on this item? >> Okay. All right. Then we're moving on to the next item, which is the consent agenda. Mayor, before you move on. >> Yes, ma'am. The town council had requested drainage workshops and this
was an opening discussion on drainage, but obviously there's a lot more to discuss on drainage. Um, and so we wanted to kind of talk with you. First of all, I want Randy to speak to the community rating system because we have talked about that before. It is a bit of
a rigorous process. I don't know if you want to talk about it tonight, but certainly we need to go ahead and schedule a series of drainage workshops so that we can talk through each of these issues. >> Okay, everybody want to pull out your calendar so we can schedule drainage
workshops. >> Do you >> what's on what's on the schedule? >> Mr. B, >> we got plenty of We can't do it tonight. >> No, no, I'm saying we could have the CRS conversation at our next meeting, couldn't we? It's it's a small conversation just to
explain where we're at, what the process is, and then we could plan the plan the workshops on top of that. Right. >> After that, >> and council voted to have second meetings back in April, and we've never had a second meeting, so not intentionally. We've had ones that went long
>> and we had we just going to say we've got another budget hearing on the on the 17th. Um >> I agree with Paul. We can just bring it back on the >> We can just bring it back in on the 17th. >> Are you good with that, Randy? Can you be here on the 17th to talk about CRS for five minutes? >> Do it via Zoom.
>> Awesome. >> Zoom in. >> Well, I I think I think the idea is to give a brief >> and we can >> what what the CRS is and then we can >> and we can schedule the workshops because then we'll be past the budgeting process which is kind of where our focus really is and should be right now. Okay.
>> All right. >> I had questions, too. So, that's that's that's awesome. >> Funny we were just talking about that. All right, >> that was easy. >> That was easy. Okay, >> sorry. I didn't mean to take over there, mayor. >> We're on to the consent agenda.
>> No, we're pushing time frames here. >> We only have one item on the consent agenda and I'd like to pull it. >> Yeah, me too. So, >> okay. Um, there. >> Pull it pull it or pull it for discussion. >> Pull it for discussion. >> Pull it for discussion and potentially pull it pull it.
>> Okay. Um there's a lot of missing information in this before I'm comfortable paying these um legal bills. Um >> well, is this going to be at the end because we're typically when we pull stuff here, we put the end. >> That's right. We can put it we can put it at the end. We only had one thing. So
good good point, Todd. >> Agenda number two to uh should we do it at the end of the agenda? >> Well, there's nothing in the regular agenda. So >> yeah, so we'll put it at the regular agenda. So we'll move item number two to
basically item number nine and a half. >> Okay. All right. And we now need to >> make a motion to accept the consent agenda. >> No, but we just made we just pulled it.
>> There was only one item and we just pulled it to the end. >> Okay. So well don't we have to >> we now need to >> Well, no item three. >> We have item three first, but we need a motion to we already approved the agenda. Okay, so we are on to the
first budget public hearing item number three. >> Nothing in the back. >> That's a summary presentation. I guess this is you, Mr. Delina, of the proposed tenative military.
Uh yeah. Uh so we have another uh brief summary uh presentation which which will come up. Uh I'll go to slide five just because that's the meat and the potatoes of it. Um what staff is is really here to do as
part of uh what's required in the state of Florida is to hold uh two public hearings. Uh the reason why uh we have to adjust the agenda is because the state of Florida first wants us to adopt
a millage rate, adopt our assessment rates first and then we can adopt a budget. So that makes it makes sense. Now we uh we based the budget on uh three mills and you can see that the the
resolution although although property taxes I'm sorry property values have increased 8%. uh the the rate of of of growth when compared to the fallback rate or the uh
the roll back rate as as it's commonly called is only uh a little bit less than 6%. So we built the budget. Uh we've held several meetings. Uh you know we talked
about uh how we wanted to focus our attention this year uh as as well as probably in previous years. We wanted to focus our attention on our reserves i.e. that that that requirement that we want
to maintain 25% of our operating expenditures as as a good rule of thumb and and it is and we also can see where some funds are are doing well with that and and others are not. Uh uh the budget
does uh the the proposed budget that you have in in front of you does raise the uh road and drainage uh assessment from uh $200 uh per acre to $300 per acre. Uh and
listening to everyone talk, which has been a great benefit to me. you have a lot of needs in this community and uh we haven't raised this since 2018. Uh and uh we we we need to honestly look
at that and right now we're we're we're holding off on the solid waste assessment of $450 uh per unit and and that stays the same. But, you know, as as we looked at the general fund and again, we tend to look
at uh Florida municipality uh governments, we look at things as funds, you know, when when we first look at the general fund, you know, yeah, we see that 42% of of the money comes from the uh the
property taxes and and the rest are kind of state and and and license and permits and and all those other things. But but 42% does come from uh the the people that that are that are in the audience and beyond. And uh and and we understand
that uh we also looked at the fact that you know that when we see property taxes as an increase uh you know there the state of Florida has enacted the uh save our homes where there's only a maximum increase even
though your property values have increased. uh your increase for those that are homesteaded uh is is less than that. But overall when we compare 25 budget to 26 what we're proposing you know we're anticipating that the revenue
side is going to grow by about 4.9%. Um and again that's an estimate based on what we've seen. uh we don't in the past we're not anticipating any more uh uh tree mitigation revenue or any other
types of uh of of unforeseen revenue which which would be welcome. Uh but a town with this many needs and this size budget, I I hope that uh we can manage to maybe hopefully look at some grants
because they are a good source of uh of money to get projects done. But uh when we look at the expense side, yes, we we uh you guys had cut uh uh legal. So we
dropped legal down. We we we dropped that uh we looked at uh we made some other fine tuning but at the end of the day yes before transfers anything excess anything excess that the general fund
gets we try to send that out to capital. That's what we do. We either try to replenish our reserves or we send it to capital. That's it. uh the difference between local government and businesses.
We're not in the business of making money, but we are trying to balance a budget with everybody's needs to keep in mind and that's our goal. Uh and so when we look at things like well well we have
a lot of um uh the community wants us to do a lot of things. Uh those things just don't happen. So yeah, we looked at increasing staff levels. We looked at lowering the transfers out. We looked at
professional services, we cut that. We had an increase in our operating expenditures. And although uh Lockxahhatchee uh is is a beautiful area uh and and and
is is is uh categorized as uh agricultural um you're still in the most expensive part in the state of Florida, like it or not. Matter of fact, when we look at things like national averages, we don't
look at national averages. We look at Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach. Matter of fact, they have their own index because prices are different here than in any other part of the US. So that's
why we tend to look at those averages. But anyway, uh so we tried to take a conservative approach. We looked at most of your operating expenses plus or minus, you know, 7%. Uh the one of the biggest line items are here is just to
get our records uh updated is uh the software purchase. You know, we added $90,000. There you can see it. It's it's a 95% increase. We added $90,000. That that's not only for the uh the software, but that's also
implementing and scanning 40 year old documents or decade documents. Uh I know that uh that the community wants to retain the beautiful character that is Lockxachi Groves and some areas we're
trying to push into the you know the the 21st century and the documents the scanning the technological advances that we all enjoy. Uh that's what our board clerk had said that that we really need to uh to to increase that anyway. So,
you know, we uh yeah, 41 uh 41% of the general funds uh budget is yeah, salaries and related salaries, health insurance, payroll taxes, workers compensation insurance, all of those
types of bills that every business has, government has the exact same exact same. And so at the end of the day when your prices increase uh insurance, health insurance, property tax
insurance, when you see that huge map that uh the the engineer brought up, which which was excellent. Uh that just looks at the responsibility of all of us that are in government that we have to try to maintain this
uh these areas from water flow for for uh police protection uh whatever the source may be and we're trying to do it at at at reasonable costs and uh that's what I hope that that we brought to you.
But anyway, so that's the general fund. Uh you can see here by departments uh you know things just don't happen when when when people or the commission or residents ask us to go do something. Uh
government is run by staff. Uh we try to outsource where we can where we can gain economies of scale. Uh and and you'll see that town administration as things get more complicated. Uh you need to have a level of
administration that can handle that. We've tried to offset a lot of that cost in this budget by reducing transfers, by reducing legal services, by bringing them in house, stop the hourly rate billing, and that was our goal.
uh we talked about we provided uh you with not only every detailed line item not only in print but in Excel so you can filter scan do whatever you would like to do whatever you would like to
do. Uh and we also looked at we gave you all of the positions that uh that management was asking for to carry out everything that is in need for this quaint little community that is has
growing problems happening. Um, and so now what we're going to throw on top of all those challenges is we're going to throw on the fact that we're not getting the local option sales tax anymore. Right? So it just it's just a bad timing
in general. Had nothing to do with what we did. This is what this is what Palm Beach County has pushed that no, you know what, we're no longer doing that. And so we've only recognized uh 75% of it because it ends in December.
And so all of that money that comes in, we transfer that out to where? We transfer that out to CIP. We transfer that out to capital programs to swelles and gutters and and trying to maintain
that massive amount of property that is the jewel, as someone said, of Palm Beach County. So, that's going away. Transportation fund. Transportation fund. I was conservative. I hope that our transportation fund grows more by grows
more than 1%. I hope that uh but at the end of the day, you know, when we look at it, all of those transportation funds get shot out to other funds, whether it be road and drainage or CIP, whether it's there to meet the needs of the town
of Lockahhatchee. And so that's what that that's what that fund does. And you can see what we've done over time. The the the next fund, which is a big one, is road and drainage. This is the one where we're asking for help from a
staff's perspective. You can see here that the we haven't raised it since uh I think it looks like 2019. We haven't raised it yet. The previous four years we've seen doubledigit rates of increases based on a consumer price
index for this area, but we haven't raised that rate. Uh you can also see that uh that that's that's one of those assessments here that that I need your support on. Staff need your support on to be able to do
the job. Now I understand that people want to cut costs and and all that and and I'm all for that. Absolutely all for that. But as you sit here and you listen to the community and the needs of the community, uh don't do this, do that,
monitor this, dig this out, where's the water supply coming, all of these things are done by staff or to get the ball moving to get things done. And at the end of the day, uh we're asking for this
fund here. We need a little help. We we costs have increased since 2019 and we're just asking for the first time since 2019 an increase. Uh and when you look here, these right
here are the the biggest thing the one of the biggest increases in this fund is engineering. And I thought that guy did a great job. I was actually very very impressed with him. He was articulate and but none of this stuff happens
without engineering things happening and so it is very important as things get more complicated we're going to need the backing of qualified engineers uh to help us. Uh and there you can see where those
salaries and and operating costs went. Uh solid waste. You know what? This time next year, this will be the one we're talking about. Solid waste. I I work for other communities, believe it or not, and their solid waste doubled 100%
increase. And we historically have just been subsidizing. Typically, we've been subsidizing this fund, the solid waste fund. We've been subsidizing it from pulling from the general fund, pulling from reserves, pulling from whatever.
Well, as we saw in the previous slides, those times are over. We've we've uh we've exhausted uh we've exhausted ARPA funds. We've exhausted reserves. We're at the moment where uh we need to look at another
direction. Um and so that's that's what we're doing here. We're not doing it here. We're keeping it the same. But next year when we have negotiations for solid waste, uh, we're we're we're going to have to
look at what the cost is. Capital, my gosh, capital outlay has been $2 million, $1.5 to $2 million. That's how much we've budgeted. I agree with you that
most of the time you budget a lot of dollars in there and you can't get to all of those projects at once. You would need a staff triple the size just to get to all of those projects at once. The reason why it takes a lot of engineering, a lot of planning. We've
got to bid documents out. We got to get the bid plans back. There's a lot of staff hours in that. But at the end of the day, when we're still waiting, by the way, yeah, we're still waiting on FEMA grant reimbursement, grant reimbursements. Uh we've exhausted
transfers from, you can see that we've exhausted transfers from the uh a general fund. And now we get hit with up no more local option sales tax. That's gone, too. So, all these things have just come together. And the one area
that is going to get hit the most is our capital improvement fund. And to hear things like not go for grants, okay, I I I understand that. Uh uh but at the end of the day, um we're we're we're caught
between a rock and a hard place. This right here is your this right here, your capital projects. This is your unfunded your your unfunded needs and capital projects. That millage alone would be over four mills. If you wanted to push it onto the property owners in
an equitable fashion, that would be over four mills. But we're not asking to do that. So, oh, here here's the transfers. Every time the general fund has any excess money or anytime any fund has any excess
dollars, we transfer it out to the other fund that needs it. That's normal. But here, the biggest thing that you will see is the fact that we're only able to transfer this year per this budget, we're only able to transfer about $800,000.
That's about 63% less than last year. And uh finally as you'll see that uh yeah before transfers the oper this right here is all your revenue. Um and what we do is we match up revenue with our expenditures.
A budget uh a municipal budget is about budgeting expenditures and then matching those expenditures up with uh the dollars or where you're how you're going to pay for it. And so you can see here that overall our expenditures are about
$7.9 million and that with the transfers about 1.1 or $1.2 million that makes our total budget there about u uh 9.118 million. Um and
at the end of the day we can uh we can talk about any line items, anything you want to uh eliminate, cut, what have you. uh uh but we have uh three or four resolutions in front of you that uh we
have to execute, we have to vote on. Um and uh oh by the way uh in the future if you want to change any of the budgeted expenditures you can do that at any duly
called meeting. So, uh, yeah. Uh, I that's that's about it. So, that's all I got. I didn't really know I didn't work on the wrap-up end of that. But anyway, so we have uh the rest of your resolution. Again, if you read this
resolution right here, resolution 25-69, you can see there that although everyone's property taxes were appraised, we have nothing to do with that. that's a separate governmental entity. You know, they everyone got an 8% increase in it. And geez, Palm Beach
County, you probably got more. But at the end of the day, when you compare the millillage that we're asking for versus the roll back millillage, uh that's less than a 6% increase in an
area that Yeah, we've all experienced cost increase and and no and towns aren't immune from that. So that's all I have, madam. >> Okay. Thank you. Lisa jumped on her lights, so we'll let her jump on her questions for you. >> Nice sales pitch,
>> Mr. Delina. Um, so I pulled last year's budget summary from the from last year's budget meetings. And the general government cost for estimated
expenditures last year was a million585. This year it's 2.9. That's an increase of 1,338,000 of general government cost in one year from what was projected for budget last
year and what's projected this year. it. Can we get some explanation for why that big jump in a year? >> Um, I'm uh I'm sorry. Are you looking at the uh in total or are you looking >> I'm looking at this little pretty table?
>> Yep. And it should last year's pretty little table. >> Yep. And so, right. Uh well, I uh I don't know if I can shoot it up on the on the thing. I I think it has to do with transfers whether the the bottom line there because I I have the same um
I don't know how to give it to you. I have the same FY25 as adopted general fund expenditures at 3.319 million. >> No, I'm not I'm not talking about the total expenditures. I'm looking specifically at the general government
line. This top one right here. >> Yep. Yep. Oh, that includes transfers. I was looking at the one above it. above it. So you have do do you see a line there that says 3 uh 3.319 million? >> That's total expenditures. Yes.
>> Well, the one that you're looking at as the uh transfers. So So we we were able to do a lot more transfers in the prior year than in than in this year, right? But overall the >> No, I I'm sorry. I don't think you understand. >> I'm sorry. Last year, the general
government total expenditures, this top one of the pretty little table, >> you got that pretty little table right here, right? You got that same table right there. We got it like five times in our agenda this time. So, no, it was the other handout that we
were given. >> Um, I don't >> maybe if I could make a copy of >> Yeah, >> that would be lovely. >> Um, so that I'd love an explanation to that. um in the general presentation
at $200 per acre assessment >> which is our current assessment. This is last year's. >> Yeah. Um >> is that 2024 or 2025 or this year? >> That's that's the current budget. >> 25. Okay. >> Current budget.
>> I'll make a copy of that. Thank So, if we take the $200 acreage assessment, the town gets about a million and a half of revenue from the acreage assessment based on that. Again, >> road and drainage or solid waste road.
>> That would be road and drainage. >> Okay. I'm with >> at 200 an acre. That that would be last year's number, right? >> Yep. If you take the salary benefits total of staff per $200 an acre, we're spending almost
75% of just the acreage assessment on salaries and benefits at public works. By increasing that to 300, that's now 50% of those costs. >> Yes. >> So my fellow council members will recall
that when it was the district The district had courtesy grades on all these other roads, right? The district only had to deal with the acreage assessment for the canals and the roads immediately
abudding those canals. Correct. Give or take except for an occasional courtesy grade. Right. Right. And we we know the whole argument of they never spent money and you know it turned out to be what it is today. The reality of it is though is this acreage assessment
was never meant to pay for all these culvert bridges and all these small roads and everything else. So we can we can look at we can look at this in a cost cutting way by saying as a town we cannot afford to take care of every
single square inch of road and everybody's covert bridges and everything else and look at what cutting back from the gas tax. I know Mr. Galant has presented some information on the private subdivisions in the past and I
think there's some really important cost cutting that can be done here when we look at what this acreage assessment was in the past and what it's expected to pay for now are vastly different. So that's my question as far as just
that acreage assessment. But we're working on getting that other table from last year. So, but looking at general fund numbers, uh, town hall salaries are 40.8% of the general fund
with their salaries and benefits. If you look at salaries, professional services, and the sheriff, it's 62% of the general fund. So, again, there's a lot of outflow in that that I think Todd, with your sheriff scenario, if people had an
assessment, I don't know if the town can even do this. Were you assessed separately for your sheriff line? Thank you. That that might be an interesting way to look at like a per capita cost, right? Versus, you know, you have a garbage can sitting outside kind of thing. >> Thank you.
>> So anyway, this was just some numbers that that I was crunching today and trying to understand historically how we went from there to here. And the the biggest number that jumped out at me was the general government cost going up
a million3 in a year. >> Uh so I can I can answer that now. >> Okay. >> So uh you on on this one here which is not my work by the way. >> I understand. >> Okay. Uh you have general government at 1.585 million. I think it's highlighted there
in yellow. I'm not sure if that's your highlight. >> That was my Yes. >> Okay. uh my budget which includes public safety because that is a general government uh thing. Uh my budget includes
uh the uh PZB and code and my budget includes the $162,000 a non department. That's why I was looking more at the 3.3 if you wanted to compare apples to
apples. If you wanted to compare 3.318 or or 9454 to what we have of 4067 639, that's an increase of $748,000.
>> So the PZ the PZB on the one that that I printed out before >> is a separate line item. >> Yep. >> And here you don't have that separate line item on yours, >> right? I I >> So is that bumped up to that that other general government? Is that included in
there? >> Oh, I don't know what's included in here. That that >> you're talking about your document now. >> Yeah, my my document includes all local government functions. >> No, it doesn't. You have the sheriff split out and you have non-governmental split out that that happened in 2425.
What isn't split out in yours and was in 24 is PZB and code. So, you're telling me that part of that number increasing is that you don't have PZB and code split out and that looks like last year's
document. It was at 93,000. >> No. Uh, what I'm what I'm saying is if you want to compare apples to apples, you look at general fund operating, you look at general fund expenditures, total expenditures of the 3. I'm trying to
cover you here with the planning and zoning in 2425 was split out. That's almost a million dollars by itself. >> Okay. >> And your doc your document. This is your document. >> Yes, that is my document.
>> It has the exact same line items except in yours PZB >> and code is not split out. So I'm trying to understand is that part of the So now it's only $338,000.
>> Thank you. That's the clarification. >> I can split that up if you like. I don't >> Well, if you recall, I had mentioned that a few meetings ago that it would be beneficial to have that out specifically so you could you could match the revenue source as well. So you I mean, you understand what I'm saying? Because like
she's saying, where where does this million three come from? Well, 9003 plus 6% colo whatever you are you know whatever you're looking at right about the same amount of money. Yeah. >> So if you if we had had it separate right because it's it really is a
separate I I understand what you did Mr. Delane. That's I'm just saying it kind of makes it >> a little easier to to compare especially when the old one was split out like that right or a note >> saying this is all. Lastly, can you explain how
capital improvement projects ends up in the revenue box? >> Capital improvement. >> So when you when you look at total revenues, >> when I look at total sources, >> total all funds, right? And when you put
capital improvement projects, which your number right now is at 817 and some change that comes from a transfer, right? Yeah. Oh yes. Yes. Yeah. >> So capital projects is not a revenue.
It's not a revenue source. So how does it get counted twice? >> It doesn't get counted twice. It's a transfer in from the other funds. >> I understand. But you have total of all funds for revenue. How can a transfer in
be counted in capital projects when we know it comes from some other source and generally comes from the general fund? is it tends to go only in that direction, >> right? In order for it to balance on the far right hand side that says all funds,
right? I've got to account for both the transfers in and the transfers out. >> So, that money gets counted twice. >> No, it's not counted twice. It's pulling it out as an expense from the fund that's giving it, right? And then it's
pulling it in as a source of funds as a revenue or a source of funds from uh that that's coming into that account. >> But when we look at revenue, I get that it's a total of all funds. >> Yes. >> But I think the impression is total
revenue transfers and balances kind of implies well that's just even more money. But the reality of it is is in the past that number that capital improvements fund actually comes from somewhere, right? It's not >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's not actual money coming in from
going in your bank account. >> Yeah. Uh it's being shuffled around >> savings basic call it. >> So if you don't mind I would like if you would indulge me for a moment. >> Sure. >> I think that Mr. Dr. Delena probably needs to explain that government
accounting is based on a separate um set of selfbalancing funds and government accounting requires a separate general fund and a separate capital fund and a separate special revenue fund and a separate enterprise fund. And so you
have to follow the account the governmental accounting rules. And so if you take money from your general fund, pretend that's a separate bank account, and you move it over to your capital project fund, pretend that's another one of your bank accounts, you have to
transfer between funds. You haven't created more money, but you have two accounts. So we have to record general in general, capital in capital, special revenue in special revenue, and
enterprise and enterprise. These are not rules that Mr. Delena made up or anybody here made up. They are governmental accounting rules. And I don't disagree. If you had a corporation, you would do a consolidation and you would eliminate
any of the um intercomp transactions. But these are not intercomp transactions. They are part of self-balancing accounts. So you have to look at it like you have separate accounts at separate banks and you make
separate transfers. It has to be done that way. The department of revenue requires us to advertise the budget that way. We send the budget through them for them to review it. I hear you, Council Member El Remy, but Mr. Delena is
limited in the way that he has to present it by law. >> No, I I get that. But I think it's important for for council to realize and the public to realize that last year we put out a budget of two 12.7 million and this year we're looking at a budget of
9.1. It's a significant drop. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. So Todd, I think you were talking about, you know, this council's going to take the hit when in actuality, those capital improvement monies from the past and that last year included the state
appropriations that didn't come to fruition. These numbers are not dollar numbers, right? This is not a revenue fund here. That money is being pulled from somewhere else. And so I think that's important. But thank you Anybody
else have any questions? >> Did anybody get an explanation on these things that were here when we got here? >> I did not before we started. >> Yeah. >> Did you provide these? >> Yes. I provided at your request. Sure.
>> Okay. Because I think it shows we're we're over budget quite a bit this year. >> Yeah. So this is uh what you're looking at there is what I call just a halftruth to be honest with you. Right? Because when you only look at lines of a budget
that are over budget >> as per your request, right? That's only half of the story because although the general fund, I don't know which one you're looking at there, but all the
funds are there or for you to look at, all the funds are there. But the general fund, for example, we are $316,829 projected to be over for those line items. Now, the next
person might ask, >> "Well, what about the line items that are under budget?" >> No, no, you're explaining it. I I don't need a blowby. Um, it's just we're looking at what you provided here is what we're over this year in each one of
these funds. >> No, I'm okay. >> Right. >> You let me know how much detail you would like. >> I don't know. What does this mean? >> That is you wanted block. We 39% overbudget. What does this mean? >> No, that means that those line items are
over budget. That's it. The entire fund is >> not okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> That that's the clarification. So, >> so can we put a number on that, Mr. Delina? It's overbud by what? 240 and under budget by 2 million.
>> I don't know the number. Well, uh, in the general fund, we're estimating that you are going to be under budget by 60. We'll just round up $63,000. You're going to be under budget by $63,000. Now, >> but that's cuz we didn't do half the
capital improvement project. >> Oh, no, no, no. This is general fund. >> General, but the money comes from the general fund to the capital improvements. >> Madame, I'm just trying >> I'm not the chair. She's the chair. Uh madame council member I'm just trying to present the data that by fund is what
accounting and what we look at. Now if you want to look at road and drainage right road and drainage in total that one there we're potentially going to be a little bit overbudget. The reason why is the reason why we're going to be
overbudget in that fund about $87,000 we're going to be overbudget is because in prior years we budgeted for an an equipment expenditure that didn't happen until this year. >> Okay. So what you provided there's more
lines here that are not over budget. That's why I was confused about what this actually represented. So thank you. >> You're welcome. I think he's trying to show that just because you're over trying to visually demonstrate that just because you're overbudget in one line that you're
>> I have the concept. I just I'm just >> that it was just confusing that >> trying to clarify for you. >> Right. And and I don't think that that was really my question at our workshop, but thank you. >> It was what was not >> budgeted in the first place, not what was over or under.
>> A lot shorter. >> So, well, I think we have some numbers. There's a undocumented PECard. Yeah. Account. >> Yeah. Yeah. And again, uh, since I've been here since June 5th or 6th, I I can't remember, right? You know, we're trying to get everything, uh, we wanted
the expenditures recorded, right? But we haven't gotten through all the paperwork. And so, really, that's for uh, June, I'm sorry, May and June is a majority of that that we wanted to get the expenditures booked in there because I I I don't want
to show expenditures that we've incurred, but I'm not I'm not showing you. And so they just need to be allocated out and and our staff we're trying to allocate. >> Well, and I think as council our we're trying to understand where all the money is going and what what can be dealt with
effectively and still get results. >> Yes. >> And what can't be. >> So I just needed a fuller picture. Thank you. So undocumented PECARD, if you don't mind me interrupting again, all of the PECARD purchases are recorded in an accounting system from the bank called
works. And all the documentation for the purchases or the purchasing card had been going into works. That system does not integrate integrate the documents into Blackbod. What David and his staff
have decided to do is not to use works anymore. And so for anything that is not uploaded and recorded in the system, it's sitting in undocumented pecard until it moves over to documented
in the system. and they have a person going through and moving all those documents into Blackbod cuz one of the things in Blackbod that we have um you know uh that other people do not is that
you can click on an expense, drill down, see the invoice, see the purchase order, see the contract. And the same thing is true for the PCard. And the PECard will no longer say Bank of America PC card $80,000. Instead, you will see the
detail by the vendor that it was spent on. So, you're actually getting a higher degree of accountability. And Mr. Delena, I'm sorry to interrupt your presentation, but um you're not giving yourself enough credit for
>> No, cleaning up the system. Well, I guess that that was kind of my point that before and and maybe to to some of what Lisa is saying is you have something called undocumented BC card. >> It's not. >> So So I I I get what you But so you just had to spend five minutes explaining it
as to where if we didn't put it and you're basically putting it in a holding pin. >> You bring the cattle in, you put them in a holding pin. They're going to put them in the trailers, right? That that's that's how you know you got to sort them. Well, to do that, you got to put them in the pin. So you so you you've put all this stuff into this holding pin
called undocumented PEC card. But can I tell you when I read undocumented PEC card or I hear somebody say undocumented PC card, you know, that tells me that tells me that somebody around here >> went and got a PC card that nobody knows about, but we're put I I know that's not
what happened. I'm just saying when you read undocumented PC card, that just means that you know somebody went and got a credit card and we're putting stuff on a credit card. So, I I don't mean to tell you what you're doing, but I'm just, you know, >> that was on there. >> Yeah. No, I get it. But >> and but I didn't want to hide anything.
This right here, all this data here comes right out of your blackbot system. No, >> if you're hiding it, it wouldn't be on there. I get it. But the the the >> when you read it, >> the term undocumented is probably not a good term to >> term, right? >> It's probably not a good term to stay.
>> I'll And we will get that cleaned up. >> Unclassified. unclassified might be >> and you know what also we're also we're trying to work on billing out for cost recovery at the same time of collecting it so so you know there's a lot of moving pieces and we're we're trying to
get our arms around it and uh but my biggest thing is I always want your source document to be your accounting software right that's that's my goal my my goal is is no no no no that's
everything Budget amendments get recorded in our blackboard. Credit card purchases get recorded. Everything and anything gets recorded when it has to do with money. Contracts, purchase orders, uh incumbrances,
all these things should get recorded in our system. That way, that way I'm not having to recreate anything, right? I just push a button and share with you and you have access to everything. >> Well, I think that gets recorded now in Blackbod. I don't think that's not being
done or hasn't been done in the past. >> Whi- which part? >> Everything you just described. >> No, I >> it's documented there. >> I just recorded the uh the budget amendment from June in order to to to push that in there. >> He means like the backup documentation.
>> Yeah, there's a contract for solid waste or whatever. He wants that contract in there, right? Not just the dollar amount. >> I think he wants backup. >> Has that not been in there in the past? Because I know if you go deep diving into Blackbod, you can find influences. It is it has always >> been at least attempted to
>> All right. Well, I gave you more credit then. All right. >> No, I the vast the vast majority of them are the there's an occasion missing dot. >> All right. And if you can if you can master blackbod, you can really get down to and and you know the other thing too that we're trying to do is we're we're
also trying to push responsibility to the department heads. You know what I mean? And and so we're trying to push the responsibility of if if if if there's something that that you need, then you need to get the three quotes. You need to put the purchase order in the system. I I don't know what pump
size you need to to get or what have you. And so there are I can't talk about federal or state government, but I can't talk about municipal government. There are a lot of checks and balance if the system is used properly. and and that's our goal.
That's that's really what our goal is. But and so uh that being said, uh you know, you have the three resolutions in front of you, but >> Okay. Well, we Well, let's get some we have public comment on this item, I'm sure. >> Yes, we do. >> Okay.
>> The first one we have is from Mr. Victor Leo. Richard, can you bring me the mic, please? >> Yeah. Just take it out. Just give it to him. Thank you. How you doing? Victor Leato, 15665
Collecting Canal Road. Um, I've lived here like 35 years. Um, I just want to let the town council know that this is a small agricultural town with working people and senior citizens in it.
um with the large the people doing the work um in the field and stuff aren't they're getting 6% raises and one isn't getting any but the people that are in the offices are
getting um unheard of uh 31% raises 33% raises 31% raises um the town managers is going up to 160,000. Um, town clerk 125,000.
Another office 125,000. Now we have our own loss team here. So I don't know if he's getting 160,000 or 200,000. The biggest thing is um they don't even discuss is the health
insurance. But the other big thing is we're going to be paying on the drop program. That's going to be hundreds of thousands for the high salary individuals and retirement which is going to cost the town probably another 20 years because
it's not just for the individual if they pass away that's for their spouse too. So we're going to be paying for that. I don't know how the city is going to pay for that because now we're up to uh 28 people working for the town.
So, um I hope the town council will make cuts. I don't know how people can get 33% and 31% or 13%. And I'm sure they have other packages. Um, I was told, "Well, the town manager
in Royal Palm Beach gets so much, but I said they have 118 employees. How can you compare a town with 28 employees to a town with 118?
That's what I I don't understand. Thank you very much. Thank you, Victor. Anybody else? >> Tom Wood or Ward. >> Oh, Tom. Okay. Jane Harding 3479.
Now, I'm a neopight to all of this, but you keep telling us how uh all our properties are going up in price. Well, we bought what we could afford when we bought it. And it's you can look my property up. I paid 355,000. I was very,
very lucky. My property may be going up, but that doesn't mean that my salary is going up and the way I live is going to be able to maintain all those things of saying the property tax the property values are going up. So, let's increase
their taxes. You'll get your taxes from me when my property sells. In the meantime, I can't be taxed out of my home. So, there are palaces that are being built on my road, other roads. what's happening to their taxes. I look up the
taxes that some of these new people are paying who have paid at the actual value right today million5 2 million 3 million $50,000 a year. Where's that going? Doesn't that offset anything or is it you're just going to collect us all into
one? So I pay 355 what I could afford. Maybe I'll sell my house for a million five and then I'll pay those exorbitant taxes because of the appreciation. But I am not seeing anything from those appreciations now and my job is not
seeing that and I don't get these increases like I'm reading which blows my mind. So I mean you keep saying that and it really it bothers me because I'm not paying $50,000 just because my house
might be worth a million5. That's not what I bought it at. Okay. So, maybe it will increase in value, but nothing else has increased along with it. The only the only things that are can pay the 50 grand are the palaces that are being
built. And God bless them. They can do it and they can afford it. So, I don't understand all this taxation. And um and in order for me to pay for all these increases and these increases taxes, I
might as well find a second job because now I have to find a second job in order to pay for someone else's job who's supposed to be representing me and representing this town. And there's a lot of old-timers here who have lived here for 30, 40 years, bought their
properties for what, 30, 40, $100,000. Now, you want to treat it like a million5? Well, they're not a million5 to those people. It's their$100,000 gold mine. That's what they bought, what they could afford. What makes you think they can afford a million5? Anything.
So, I mean, I keep hearing the properties have gone up in price and so therefore the taxes are okay, so let's increase them. No, it's not okay. Okay, my taxes, if it goes through, are going up over $1,500 a year. Do you know what
that means to me? My taxes and my house insurance are more money than my mortgage. Is there something wrong with that? >> Yes. Thank you, >> Miss Norman. Hi, Tama Norman. I'm on 2226F Road. Um,
I was just I'd like to say I agree with what a lot of people said here today. One thing is is that as a town I would like to see more town activities and being more cohesive as a community, which I don't see. I've been here since
2019. I've lived in a small town before. This is not a small town mentality. Um it's a bunch of people living here and we have a town um hall that I don't think is actually doing much service. Those people that are running this town
are making extra an extraordin A just a Google search today um while I was sitting here a town manager in the state of Florida makes approximately $89,000. >> Yeah. >> The proposed one is 160. That's ridiculous.
>> Yeah. Um, a town clerk 37 to 45. Why is it 95 right now? These are things I really want as a town for you guys to look at. It's ridiculous. Cut those. We'll save a lot of money. Thanks. >> Laura Ciopo.
>> Got it. >> Struggle with that for like six months. No, I'm back. No, I don't know if I'm back permanently, but I'm here. Um, okay. Uh, Laura Cassie 13593 Citrus. Um, I was going to ask you what a transportation fund is, but you're going to waste my time. So, I I don't mean
waste my time, but like I'm going to ask at the end and you can ask when my time's up. Um, so because I only got two and a half minutes or whatever I got. Um, so I was going to say, you know, it seems like a huge increase. Huge increase. Um, a lot of us have a
exemptions. That's great. There's a lot of people that don't. That's not great. Um, definitely what Jane said, there are people that are going to get taxed out of their homes. It's getting pretty high. And it doesn't it doesn't really matter that we bought our houses when they were not a million dollars. And
that's great that they're multi-million dollar. Maybe that's the retirement fund because it's only getting more expensive. So, I'd ask that if we're paying these people this much money, why not regularly are we not re-evaluating our subcontractors, contractors,
re-evaluating our town staff, making sure we're getting value. I'm not proposing that you all aren't doing your jobs well. I haven't been around much. I haven't seen everything, but it is tough to think that we're paying twice as much as other small towns in Florida. We may
or may not have more stuff to do, but it should be evaluated by our council and determined whether or not that's necessary. Um, if we're spending $1.4 million or whatever on engineering, can we bring that inhouse? That's a lot of money. Um,
let's see. Like all farms, I live on a farm. A lot of people live on farms. Some people just run households. We have to prioritize what's important to us. I I think that we have a pretty healthy budget. Um, I don't know what a transportation fund is, but that's why I asked it in the beginning because it
sounds like maybe we could drive smaller cars or something. I'm not sure what that is. Um, but I don't want to I don't I'm not proposing we get rid of necessary services. We need our trash thrown out. We need those things. But are those things being re-evaluated
semi-regularly? I mean, we make these contracts and then they go on for 10 years, then we ruin them, then we have to find a new one. Um, but they should be prioritized and um and re-evaluated periodically because it is possible that we can get better
subcontractors cheaper. Maybe they can do what we need for less money. Maybe we don't need the shiniest one. We just need one. Um, and a 30% increase is is a lot. I mean, I'm a doctor and I know doctors that
make $160,000. I'm not saying it's not worth it, but that's a lot of money when the average is going to be 90. So again, I'm not proposing that you all don't do your jobs. I'm not trying to make unfriends. I'm just saying that we probably should
evaluate whether that stuff is necessary and if we can try to keep the millage rate down and even if there is increase, can it maybe be a little bit less? >> Thank you. >> Oh, you can tell me about transportation fun. It's the gas tax
>> funding that we were making like for >> Cassie Sushi. >> That's a good one. >> Anybody else? Now >> Cassie, >> Cassie Suchi. Um, many years ago when I voted to incorporate, nowhere did I ever
vote to become an employment agency in our town. I'm not saying that we have anything about people's job performance, but we can't compete on salaries against Wellington and West Palm and Palm Beach
Gardens. We're not them. When you look at the number of employees we have and the amount of money we're spending on employees and benefits, it's it's insane. It's stop the insanity. I mean,
30% raises uh apparently the best health care. Why don't we cut there and put them in the healthcare exchange? It it works for a lot of other people in businesses. Um why do you need Blue Cross Blue Shield? Um,
I live on a budget. When I have a limit on my credit card, I don't keep spending over my credit card because I'm not spending others people's money. I'm accountable for that. But I guess when it's other people's money, they don't think about it. We need to be on a budget as well. And I don't think
anybody up here can talk about raising taxes when we can't even spend what we have. We just hired an in-house model attorney. have no idea what that's going to cost. We have hypotheticals and theorizations, but we don't know. I
listened to uh I sorry, Mr. Galano Golino. >> Okay, I butchered your name. Sorry. You you talk about need needing an engineer. We have seven engineers. You know, it reminds me of a joke. Uh how many engineers does it take to screw a light bulb in the town of Lockachi Groves?
Obviously, more than seven because we got to hire more. I don't understand that. We have seven in our town. We have what, 29 employees in our town. So, please, you guys are our voices. You guys are residents up of the town.
Please be wise in your choices. Put us on a budget. We don't have a revenue problem in this town. We got a spending problem. And when you have a spending problem, you have to be put on a budget. So, put staff and everything on a budget. There's a lot of fat and junk
that can be trimmed out of our budget. So, please please do that for the residents of this town. >> That's all. >> That's it. >> Yes. Card in. Email in. Everything in. Ready?
I was waiting for this guys. Start my clock. >> Guys, this budget has the biggest cut to your roads and drainage which is called capital improvement. This budget has the biggest increase in salaries ever. >> Silent majority has spoken. Have you
seen these many people? I am the chair of fact and not even one person shows up and look at this. Silent majority has spoken and you know what they're telling you? They have rejected your budget. And the reason for that is there is zero trust. There is wasteful spending and
they feel frustrated that you're not listening. So to make it easy, I'm going to give you a solution. I would like any one of you today, you know, it's very easy to reset the trust and win your next election. So let me give you an easy solution. I'm going to float
motions. I would like any one of you to pick up this motion, add it in the agenda right this minute. First motion, freeze any non-essential hiring for the next 12 months. No salary increases for employees who have been here less than 12 months. Only 4% increases and anybody
above directors only give them increases once they give you monthly performance standards. You will save 225,000 by this action. Second motion, dismiss any effort on the grants that town is wasting on grants that require us to
take significant debt, change our rural zoning or hand over our zoning to outside agencies. You cut that with the consultants and lobbyists, that will save you $400,000. Engineering, lobbyist, grant writers gone. Third motion, prohibit the town
manager. Sorry, madame town manager. No trust from engaging in any grant activity or comprehensive plan changing without prior council approval. No engaging of developers and wasting our time. Final and fourth motion, cut non-essential travel. No Tallahassee,
night spending, credit cards, books, events, subscription training. We can't afford it. Non-essential. And by doing this, we will save $100,000. Total result, you can keep the tax rate at 2.96 or 3.0 if you're generous and
200 an acre and then let them balance this budget and then you will see next year. I think people are ready to support tax increase if they see the money going in the right direction. But that's not happening. And if you don't do this today, I'm telling you, none of you will be reelected. Thank you so
much. that it >> I have an email to read into the record. >> Okay. >> Uh this was from Mr. Gil Hyatt. I have many concerns with regards to the attached comments that have been posted by Mr. Sud as a business owner for 40
plus years in South Florida and a property owner in Lockxachi Groves for many years. I am very knowledgeable about budgets, their importance and difficulty maintaining a fiscally responsible budget. I am also aware that everything costs money and all costs continue to rise. Here are some of my questions.
Fact member Manish Sud is proposing over $750,000 in savings to the budget to attempt to keep non-advalorum taxes at $200 an acre rather than increase to 300. Mr. Delena, do you agree as an experienced respected professional in
your field that what Mr. Sud has proposed is possible? save $100,000 from non-essential travel, credit cards, events, subscriptions, and road and drainage. Two, save $175,000 on lobbyists each year, which eliminates all opportunities for any grants. Three,
these grants resulted in $750,000 to the town in 2024 alone. This will go to zero. Four, save $225,000 per year by limiting annual salary increases increases to 4%.
12 to 24 months tenure, 5% 24 plus months tenure. Many of the claims center on that the town is taking money from roads and drainage infrastructure to pay salaries, lobbyists, etc. when the opposite is true. 1.2 million is being
reallocated from surpluses in the general fund, transportation and s tax to fund the roads and drainage capital projects and solid waste deficits. This is not sustainable when the half cent gas tax goes away. And on top of that,
what will the reserve budget be after this upcoming fiscal year? And how will this continued drain on the already depleted reserves? I have seen reports there is a projected 80 million of work necessary to stabilize the canals and fix major failing infrastructure
projects. While the FACT preliminary budget showed the capital improvement improvements reserves fully depleted, please know that none of this none of us want to pay more for taxes, but we want to maintain the town. Please speak your mind and advise us. Please do not be
influenced by well-meaning, financially inexperienced residents who are only trying to reduce their costs without truly understanding the big picture. No, >> I think it should be. >> That's not the way it works. It's a public college.
>> That's not the way it's ever worked. Manish, >> your response when Nancy Freed said my name. No, you don't respond. >> Clarified that the gas tax halfcent is not correct. It's the sir tax that's going away. The gas tax is here to stay as far as I >> Thank you.
>> Well, good job. Thank you >> for the moment. Yes. Okay, we're going to recess the council meeting and call to order the dependent water control district and consider item number four
resolution 2025 DD08. Valerie, >> a resolution of the board of supervisors of the Lockxa Hatchee Groves Water Control District, a dependent district of the town of Loxahhatchee Grove, Florida, relating to the provision of district services, including water control, maintenance, and repair
of drainage and roadways. Approving the assessment rate for district special assessments for the fiscal year beginning October 1, 2025. Imposing a district special assessment for the provision of district services. Approving the assessment role providing for collection of assessments pursuant
to the uniform method of collection. Approving the district budget for fiscal year 2025 2026 to be adopted as part of the town's budget by the town council. providing for conflicts, providing for severability and providing for an effective date.
>> Okay. Any comments on this? This is >> Do you want to any sort of presentation on this? This is the >> I don't know. This is the millage rate. No, this is >> been the assessment rate drainage district >> at 300 an acre.
>> It's proposed 300 an acre. Does anybody want a presentation or do you want to just ask questions? Let's have a consensus. Presentation or questions, Paul? >> I I don't think we need yet another presentation. I mean, >> so you're okay with just asking questions, Todd. How about you? >> Yeah,
>> Lisa. Okay, questions. Questions it is. And Lisa has her light on. So, first questions, Lisa. Well, I I go back to my earlier comment about this acreage assessment was never meant to encompass the scope that became the
towns and and some of you predated me on this with how this all came to be. Is it possible as you successfully removed your segment from the gas tax? Is it success? Is is it possible to pull this
back? And Mr. Glunt, you know more about some of these smaller subdivisions, but we just spent a half million dollars, give or take, on 161st, which was a private road that got courtesy grades. So, this is not sustainable numbers on
this broad scale for these roads. And again, almost all of this predated most of us for this level of spending with our level one road still not being finished, not having I think Mr. uh uh where Tepany pointed out that we still
haven't gotten our our easements and everything else. So, is there a way to scale back what this town has to take the liability for? >> I'm I'm not in disagreement with you. Let me make it clear. My road is still
on a gas tax map. It never get taken off. Even though Even though we had to pay for the covert, right? The town's still collecting money. were the only ones that had to pay for a culvert because everybody else in the town's paid for, right? And >> no one want for two culverts. >> Okay. So, is it a town road?
>> Okay. So, my question is I don't know that we can Well, >> well, we can >> Can we just take those off the gas tax map? Can we say 161st is no longer a town road? Remove it from the gas tax and it goes back to the people and they maintain it. They grade it. They do
everything on it. Is that a possibility? That's what she's proposed. That's what >> I think 161st they'd have to make it's paved now. So you wouldn't grade it. >> Right. Right. Right. >> Yeah. Well again that's another bone of
contention around everywhere. But I mean that's that was a thing that as an example just that road as an example that road because of they graded it whatever and the rescue truck couldn't get down it and XYZ. I mean I don't know. firet trucks been up and down, you
know, since I was a kid. Um, but you know, every road here when it was washboard when it wasn't. I mean, you know, that's how it became a town road. >> Yeah. Those those th those that decision >> I get what you're saying. >> That that maintenance decision was made
for almost all the roads at least seven years ago. Um and at this point in time there is a uh presumption that they are town rightway. >> Well >> if you wanted to start abandoning roads
>> I guess that's what's that's what's being that that is a possibility. >> What I looking at what is a possible scenario. >> I think what I'm hearing is another possib I think what I'm hearing you looking for is um not abandoning roads.
I I didn't hear that. What I heard is something like um units of development so that some of these subdivisions like Mr. McClendon and his neighbors were assessed for their covert on their road that in order to go into and please
people in Morris Groves don't call me. I'm just using it as an example because it's the one that pops up. But if all the people in the Morris Groves subdivision if Mr. Galot says that's the one that needs to have all the drainage redone because it's because a lot of the big drainage issues are in the smaller
subdivisions, right? And so if you you can make an assessment for those subdivisions. I mean that is a possibility and make those people be responsible over a period of time much like the Ojim assessments and all those things but I think going back to what Paul I mean so that is a possibility
assess for the >> maintenance basically or the projects in certain specific subdivisions and areas but we saw how that worked out six years into the Ojim loan right into the >> the town became there was too many moving
>> I understand I'm just throwing out what sometimes happens down the road, right? Then those people wind up resenting like, why do we have to pay for our drainage when the people in Hyde Park just got theirs done and didn't have to pay for it? The town paid for it. So, I think it's a sticky wicket, but it it is a possibility, but I think it's a sticky
wicket. That's >> a point of information for everyone. I know that Mr. Galot needs to speak, but none of the neighborhood drainage is included in that number. No, neighborhood drainage would be something that we would have to decide on through the discussions relative to the drainage
workshops. The only thing that is included in the roads and drainage is the basic roads and drainage. It does not include dredging canals. It does not include cleaning out culverts. It does not include major culvert projects um
because we do not have the ability to pay for those. This is basic drainage and roads. It's still rocking roads that need rock. 50% of our roads are not paved and need rock. Our paved roads
need some attention, not the same kind of attention they used to. Um we still have drainage issues that we have to take care of. Um so this is basic maintenance. And by the way, we're catching up on deferred maintenance that
hasn't been done. So, it's not like we've expanded maintenance. We are catching up on deferred maintenance. So, um we can certainly go ahead and decide to reduce the level of maintenance that we do, but that would reduce the level
of maintenance that we do and we would end up back in complaints. >> I see waving hands. >> Sorry. Richard's going to have a stroke over here. We better let him talk. >> So, I understand what you're saying as
far as the the maintenance of the roads. Um, and the units of development have been brought up before and that is probably, and you're right, it is a sticky wicket. All of it's a sticky wicket. The hide park issue right now, actually, I literally had a phone call with FEMA
today. I have to send them the final bill on all the improvements we did there and then they're going to start processing it through their stuff that FEMA will actually pay for the majority of the work that was done on Hyde Park. So the town will get reimbursed for all of that. Um
>> maybe if you're lucky >> maybe. >> Well, no, I'm not negative. I'm just saying it is money. It is our tax. So we're out whether >> but that was timing of a storm. We can't get that every every project. It takes two. This is something that will be a a
plus to the budget two years from now. And we're talking about creative solutions. Now, >> Francino and I had a discussion last week, week before about a storm in 2017 that they're looking for receipts for for management costs from Ian. >> Yes.
>> So, you know, the wheels of FEMA spin >> 2017 was um Irma. >> Irma. That's right. Irma. Sorry. Irma. I I get them all confused because there's literally five storms I'm working right now trying to get money back from the federalis and the state. Um but the
units of development are a good idea. I know we discussed that at one point. One of the things that I'm trying to do and we're looking at using the the part of the the uh resiliency assessment that we just did um to hopefully figure out how much we do need to spend on some of
these roads. I mean, there's there are subdivisions in this town that have absolutely no drainage whatsoever. There's a culvert that sticks into the canal that the first property owner where that covert comes out and fill in the swale. >> Remember the one we went and looked at where they rocked over the swift.
>> That's kind of where I was going with my conversation with Randy that, you know, it's >> right San Diego, Los Angeles. So, those perfect examp Yeah, San Diego is a perfect example. And uh Jeff and I have had convers as well as Francino. I have had conversations because the the deeds call
out a 20oot easement for drainage. >> Correct. And some people filled them in. >> But it does but it doesn't call out to who they're who is the responsible body to maintain them. And like you said, San Diego is a perfect example. If you look at the unrecorded plat, all the drainage goes behind San Diego to the end, crosses behind all those properties,
goes down Los Angeles to the other end, crosses between two properties and then goes down that other little section there and the and if you go and tech, you know, do the question has always been and I can't get a clear answer is do we have the right to go in there and
clear all that area out and then the town will wind up having to pay for that to to clean it and you go you go second or third property You go down the second or third property down. >> You go down the second or third property down San Diego and then all of a sudden >> there's a ditch. >> The ditch ends. It's on the pond
recorded plat, but the property owners over time or just silt or you know like if you look at all of our canals, all of our canals were filled with silt. You know where that silt came from? The dirt roads, >> right? >> It came from the dirt road. So the road Indian trails gone through the past started what three four years ago and
they've been redigging every single swale in Indian trails because of the simple basically the same they've filled up so they've gone and cleaned them out and resoldered them. >> You goals >> dirt moves. >> Yeah. You go to any of our you go to any
of our canals after a good rainstorm and that have dirt roads and look at the color of the water. The color is the water. It's white. The white is because of this of the the fines that are on top of the Shell Rock roads. You pave the roads, the fines go away. You stop
filling up the the the uh uh canals. Um the unre the 20acre parcels, those those historical ditches that that everybody talks about, one of the biggest fights I have when I'm talking to people about FDA is I tell them, "You need to get an easement with your neighbor. You need to
get some kind of documentation because half of that ditch is in your neighbor's yard that you're dumping into. And legally, the state of Florida says you are not allowed to dump water into your neighbor's property, even if there is a ditch there. And the biggest fight I have with engineers and with property
owners in this town is getting these freaking easements. They don't want to give an easement to each other. >> Yeah. And then and then they're in my office, both parties yelling and screaming at me about, you know, how this guy's draining into my property and he's draining into my property and
everybody's draining into everybody's property and I need to stop them. I'm like, I don't know how you want me to do that. >> But this goes back to how do we how do we take care of what we can afford to take care of? And and again, historically, the sticky wicket has been
launched. And h how do we how did we deal with that? I >> I think moving forward because that's what we need to do is at this point we need to start moving forward. You know, we've identified you look in the capital budget, we've identified North Road is going to be the next project that the town is going to do and all the other
projects we're trying to finish up and collecting and even the 24 project will once once they're done with 161st, the 2024 paving project will be done. And so there will be no more outside of maintenance and stuff like that that you know there the all the you know because
part of the 24 project that we talked about when that council was in office was that we would encumber encumber the drainage of those roads at the same time because the historical issue has been we slapping asphalt down but not dealing with the drainage. So my my promise to
the council at that time was is when I do when I pave the 2024 roads they will have drainage and moving forward they all will have drainage. That's why and then because of the a and collecting and that's why we w up contracting it out which I mean if we had the manpower the equipment and the time we could have
done it ourselves at a significant savings. The problem is is we don't have the the equipment the manpower the time while dealing with other projects in the town like a hand collecting canal. Right now, my entire crew is over on a- road um trying to to get all the BMS rebuilt
and fix and do all the canal bank stabilization so we can put the drainage in so we can pave the road. >> So, here here's a a thought. We can do what Francine 10year assessments through the water district. That's the longest we can do. >> Uh we probably can actually do longer
than that. The problem is that the question is going to be a legal one for Mr. Kurtz. How long is he going to think that we can do an assessment borrowing for? Because that's how we would have to do it. >> Okay. So, here here's the spitballing,
guys, because obviously some people are going to be like, well, that person got theirs paid for it. This one got theirs%. Yeah. >> Instead of raising an assessment that is in perpetuity, let's get real. Government likes to keep numbers where
they keep them. Would would it behoove us to consider and Mr. Curts could bring us back maybe some more information to do an assessment that would essentially be kind of a 50/50 and we could look at some of these segments that still haven't been done that are like level one and stuff like that.
>> So, I got I got a covert replacement that needs to be done. I come to town and say, "Listen, this needs to be done, whatever." and we split the bill. >> No, I'm talking about a townwide 5050. So, everybody pays 50% of what's still to be done of X. Hold that thought,
Francine. Of X, like the paving. So, then it's not, oh, well, they got paving and we didn't, right? >> Oh. So, so >> everybody ends up paying. It's just, it's just >> So, if it's going to cost $10 million, let's put a smaller number. It's going to cost $2 million to the just
artificially low project. >> The town somehow out of capital comes up with a million of it out of out of our capital budget and the the three 3,700 residents in the town or however many properties would get assessed by 50%.
That would be their million dollar split over the town over >> over 10 years, let's say, >> on top of their $200 per acre, >> just like the Ojin people paid for years and that's what I'm saying. Except >> 100%. >> But they paid, >> right? But Todd, you were you were the genesis of the 50/50, I believe. Right.
So, um, and Francine's waving her hand now. So, >> yeah. Um, >> the reason I'm raising my hand is because we brought this up during last year's budget, and we basically said that we needed to go through all of the neighborhoods, much like you're talking about, figure out what everybody has to
do, and go 50/50 through the whole town. And we talked to the tax collector, and they won't necessarily make us do units of development, which take time and money. They may let us. They said they would. So, I'm going to still say they
may let us do um maintenance assessments throughout the town using our current units just by giving them spreadsheets, which by the way might not sound like a big deal, but it is. >> It is a big deal. What's the difference
of development? >> If that winds up being $100 per acre or $500 per year to people, what's the difference? The difference is The difference is it has an end date. >> It has an end date. >> It has an end date. >> So keep the keep it at $200 for now and
then charge a special assessment for the next 10 years, which we can't do this year because we're too late. >> No. No. But again, I'm just trying to think of what I know you're trying to do at our disposal. >> That's awesome. So >> and you I think we have a road
classification map. >> The ship has sailed. But I think that >> it's there, >> right? >> I think that if we're going to look at short short-term creativity, you start with level one, right? And you assess for level one, >> finish the level one,
>> right? Because everyone agrees, everyone pays for level one. >> Last year that a road get completed because that was the last level one road that was not completed. >> Arguably pieces of other roads were not completed either. and North Road and North Road has descended >> at all.
>> North upper north upper north. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Feel like I'm in the Klondikes now. So, um you I think that just again, how many creative ways can you do that? And I think that it's easier for people to go,
okay, I see that this is on my bill for 10 years and you know what that looks like. I don't know if that number is 100. I don't know if that number's more, but anyway. >> But so now, so now we go, okay, we got we revisit, which we've said we're going
to revisit anyway, the whole priority list, which most of everything on the priority list is a capital improvement, right? Um or we do that whole, you know, $80 million list, and we make a priority of this, >> right? Which we kind of did already for this year, but Yeah. >> Right. So we do that. So we say this is
a 10 million or a 10-year project, right? It's a 10 year. So, but who's to say you don't come in and go, "Oh, well, you know, oh we got we gota Sorry. Oh, dang. We gotta fix this." So, now we're tacking more on.
>> No, I understand. But I >> that we prioritized because Paul and I got here in March. We didn't prioritize anything yet. >> Last time on this list on this capital project actually. That was just a couple changes of >> one one of the things it sounds to me like you're you're talking about
specific projects and things like that and what I've heard from Mr. Galant and the manager and what I understand is that this budget at this level is not addressing
all of those specific projects that you would be talking about. >> It's just maintenance. You need to get you need to get to $300 to have your road and drainage at an operating level that it's currently providing with the the
maintenance that it is doing at this time. In last year's budget, we faced the same hole. It was $600,000 and change. The recommendation from the staff was to
raise the assessment at that point in time up to $280 um an acre rather than $200 an acre. The council decided at that time not to
not to do that, but to keep the same level of service and maintenance by supplementing from >> general fund reserves and transferring 600 and some odd thousand dollar over there.
>> I think you asked me about level of service. Did you ask me that question when we had one of our meetings with the budgeting and and you asked me about level of service and I said it really depends on where you are in the town. >> Well, as far as to whether as to whether it had improved and and and your answer
was it depends on on >> where you are in town. >> But >> but what is what what is budgeted here is the current operating level of service. it's not
doing and taking over um the historical drainage or the the drainage that has been blocked off of those kind of things. >> Yeah. >> So, I just wanted to make sure that that's not that's not what we're talking about. >> Yeah. I just heard her trying to be
creative about where to come up with more money moving forward for these big scale >> and try to make it make it >> Yeah, that's >> equitable. It's for everybody. I'm not even going to use the term fair because that's a place where you ride rides and pet animals. So, you know, make it equitable so that people don't feel like
somebody else got something for free. >> Yeah. And whenever whenever you do that kind of project, the the first thing is to identify what the project is going to be, the affected areas, the costs and then um you you spread it over.
>> I mean obviously bonds are one things this is just another tool, >> right? A lot of people are opposed to borrow I mean a lot there was a referendum and it did pass if you'll remember to borrow money but it just never got exercised but there was actually what two bond referendums that passed.
>> So I mean so although there are a lot of people who are against it um there are certainly a lot of people for it too. >> I I'm just trying to think think out loud. I I think that's why we have to have the drainage workshops because assessment bonds are different, right,
>> than um revenue bonds and assessment bonds are not necessarily covered by our charter. >> All right. >> So, do we have public comment on this or are we doing public comment on Jeff? Do you see anything over there? Any cards? >> I see the headshake. So, we got to reach
one. >> Looks like Tracy's coming up. Come on, Tracy. Um, >> she's hung in here that long. >> She had Tracy has Yes, this is >> Tracy to the front of the line because her head shook. >> She's got she's got budget then she's coming up on Southwest and then mill
rate. >> Okay, but that we're on >> Thank you. We're on number four. >> We're on assessments. Correct. >> We're on assessment. She doesn't have a card in. >> Yeah, I do. >> She does. >> Oh, I'm not up there. >> She shook her head. So, we're going to
let her go. >> It even says it on my paper. >> All of you sitting on the T town council besides one, we voted in. You are the voices of all of us people here in the town of Lockafi Gross. >> I was on post,
>> but you did get voted in. >> They voted side too. >> You have some very hard decisions to make and hopefully you make the decisions that are in the best interest of the people that live in this town and pay the taxes. You really need to break this budget down and understand every
line item. Unfortunately, Mr. Delina just left. He does it in a very short form. The long form is much better and easier to understand and read. We need more transparency. As you've already heard, we don't have a
revenue problem. We really have a spending problem. As Lisa already said, but I'll restate this. Most people do not know this. Right now, our $200 an acre assessment covers only 25% for
roads and drainage. 75% of that money is spent on salaries and benefits. If it goes up to $300 in in assessments, 50% of revenues are for public works and the other 50% are for salaries and benefits. Just something to think about
when you're thinking about this because we don't have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem. >> Thanks. >> Just a quick point. Real quick point. >> Um, the public works is the salary and benefits. It's not really buying
materials or equipment anymore. It's really the guys that are out there doing the work. So, that's why it's salary and benefits. We have looked at contracting out. Um, I just pulled a few up from um, some previous times that we looked at
contracting out. It's always showed us to be more expensive than having our own employees, but it's been offered that we would once again look at contracting out and bring it back. But what's in the budget is the cost of maintaining status
quo. >> Go for it. Thank you. And just one other point of clarification, I don't know if I have the uh quicker available. >> You need to get >> just you know uh
>> there it is. >> Property taxes whether people agree or not grow and that's based on the property assessor, right? That that that rate when property values grow so does the uh
the the millillage rate per se. But you can see here that every year the general fund has been putting money in has subsidized subsidized. We didn't even went as far
as subsidizing it from its own reserve. Why? Because we refuse to increase something that came back from 2019. you know, this this value, the $200
doesn't increase when property values increase, right? It's just a fixed value there. And it hasn't been and it hasn't gone up since since 2019. And so, we've been slowly subsidizing this because of doubledigit property
value growth, right? Double digit. And it's been great. But now we're coming to the end of that. And not only that though, but we've exhausted all the reserves. We pulled all the money out of our out of our out of our savings sometimes. And now we get to a point where
>> hey uh the biggest thing in here is engineering, you know, but at the end of the day, >> you can see how much that's $725,000. That's $725,000. When you increase that millage or that
that assessment from 200 to 300, that's $725,000 of additional sources of funds to be able to pay for these expenditures and they're all operating in nature. >> Okay. Thank you, Paul.
>> So, if 75 is employee, 25 is what? >> General engineering facilities rentals and leases. Yeah. But the engineering is the engineering that we've done for everything isn't totally there. >> No. >> Right. It's spread across. >> Yeah. It is. >> Right.
>> Yeah. I mean, it's coming It's not just in public works. It's not just coming from the 200. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, it's not it's not like it's not like all of a sudden if we if we're raising it to three so we can put the whole everything into this one basket,
right? It's be, you know, so I guess my my my point is is if we are status quo today with equipment maintenance and payroll at a 7525 split, I don't know if that's the
exact number. I'm just using what's been thrown out there. Then why raise it at 30 300? I I let me I asked the question, but I want to say, yeah, I I you know, he he said it for me twice tonight, and I you
know, everyone has to remember I I want to keep just mentioning this every time until we get through with the budget. You got to remember 25% is the standard. It's been thrown out there on, you know, on the interwebs and stuff. 25% is the standard of the
reserve that you need by the state. That's required by the state. You got to maintain 25%. We had more than 25%. Okay. But it was spent. It was spent along with ARPA funds and some other
stuff in order to do a $12 million budget among some other things and not increase our taxes since 2019. But what we don't I think what a lot of us fail to remember and listen I don't want to see taxes go up either. I know I only live on two and a quarter and I've
said it a whole a bunch of times. I don't want to see that happen either. But what a lot of us fail to to remember I think is aside from the salaries and stuff like that you know the whole COVID situation happened all
that you know since then exponentially especially here because a lot of people flooded here right Mr. L's, right? The, you know, the county doesn't have to, you unless they need to or whoever, the property appraiser doesn't need to raise the rate because the values jumped
through the roof. You have $250,000 houses a few years ago now selling for $600 $800,000 in in the course of about 3 four years. So, yes, by attrition we're getting more money. Absolutely. But, you know, that reserve has been
depleted. We can't sit at it. We can't grab from that 25% reserve anymore. It's got to maintain 25%. So when we talk about level of service and things like that, we talk about, oh, we want a riding arena. Oh, we need to
have this. Oh, we need it's got to come from somewhere. And when you build it, when you build it, you got to maintain it. So say, so say somebody was to donate the town five acres and put a riding arena and a nice little stall, nice little barn on there. You can keep
your put your horse in the shade water. Right here, I'm going to donate this to the town, right? It now belongs to the town. So, who's going to maintain it? The same staff that we have that's that that can can weed eat the roads and stuff like that. I mean, that's what it's a give
and a take. Okay. That's what we all have to have to remember, you know, and and and these, you know. So, I'm sorry I kind of got on a tangent there, >> but >> yeah. So again, why the 300? If we're if
we're maintaining right now at 7525 and and we're saying we're pulling that that 75 is that's it's meant to pay for salaries. Da da da. Everything else is kosher here. Why move to the 300? >> It's gotten its 300.
We should have done this three years ago. >> We've been spending 300 an acre, >> right? We've been spending that, >> right? You've been spending $300 an acre. It's just that your source of funds, if you may. Your source of funds where you got it from wasn't the
residence. It was it was the residence, but it's the general fund and it's historically you pulled it from your 401k. That's what you did. You bought a big boat in a big house and you pulled it from 401k as far as Hey, well, now
that's depleted and we're were only able to if we had doubledigit increases this year's property, we could have increased that two that $270,000. We we could have the general fund could
have had more funds, right, to send over keeping Millage free. >> Right. >> Right. But property values didn't double. They weren't at 16% they were in 2025. They were at 8%. >> Right. >> Right. And so at the end of the day,
yeah, this whole thing we were spending at 300, we were collecting 200 from assessments and everyone the other the other funds as well as the reserves was kicking in the other 100. Those have been depleted. >> Thank you,
>> Pat. >> I'm going to repeat what I said last last meeting. We're in the service industry here. That's why our payroll and stuff is 75% of our budget. We're not building cars. So, we're not buying steel and tires and building something.
We're just maintaining. So, take your farm. I always laugh. I make like 10 cents an hour on my farm. But if I had to hire somebody to do my farm, my that would be my that would be 75% of my farm operating costs is the labor. No different than anybody else out here spending a lot. I'm not for the 300. I'm
not for 250. I'm fine with a small raise, but I also like the idea of doing trying to do a bond. If if some of these projects like the automation needs to be done and redoing the the gate structure and all that stuff, let's do it. Let's do a bond. Put it out there to vote. And
if people vote that down and then we have a storm and everybody floods, we we tried to do it and everybody said, "Don't do it." you know, try to start putting it back into the into the people's hands and say, "Hey, this is this is what we need to do to stop you
from flooding and here's the cost." That way, we're not forcing it on people. So, I'm fine with a small raise on this 200 an acre, not 250. Um, the cost of everything goes up three or 4% every year, right? So, if we're only collecting 200 this year,
>> well, then we're doing 3% basically less than last year because all of our costs have gone up. It's not like our cost for the government hasn't gone up. The machinery, the diesel, the repairs, all that goes up three to 5% every single year. But if we stay stayed at 200 an
acre for six years, right, we should have been going up 3% a year just to keep it the same, >> right? We should have went up 18%. >> So yeah, I mean, I have a serious issue with going to 300 or even 250. >> I'm fine at 220. Let's start at 10%.
which isn't a huge increase. Maybe that'll get us a little breathing room, but I also think we need to move forward with doing what Lisa said is trying to come up with a project, whatever whatever staff thinks we need and try to float that and see if we can do a unit of development but townwide for that
specific project. >> Just a point of clarification, thank you all for recognizing we're operating at 300 and the operating is maintenance. It's not capital. So the operating at 300 includes three crews.
It includes um a superintendent and it includes a public works director and an admin assistant. To go to 220, we have to go ahead and cut a crew at least and cut more staff. So I'm not 100. Yeah, two.
We're operating at 300 and 75 is for paying for staff. So, if we're going to go to 220 instead of 300, we are not going to be able to have the same number of employees. >> And that's what that's what we're
hearing people want. Right. >> Okay. >> And I just I just want >> and my and my point is if if you're on a dirt road and you get it graded once a week now, it might be once every two weeks or three weeks. That's all, right? >> Or six months and whichever. So, and that's fine. That's what people are
wanting, right? >> Okay. I just wanted to be clear. Yeah, I know. But I mean, all these roads got paved out here because everybody was screaming. They wanted more. They wanted more. They wanted more, >> right? So, >> it was nice when it was free. >> Yeah. >> Oh, no. Because remember,
>> everybody was screaming >> it cost more to grade roads >> roads to get it. It cost more to grade roads and that everybody wanted paved and so we spent $4.2 million to pave >> and had we done the 50/50, we would have got drainage and we'd have got 50% more mileage. Right. But >> we gotten grants and used that money to
leverage there. There's a lot of ifs there. >> Well, you can know that that we have maintained and that we've been spending money that's coming from other places, but we've maintained and I believe every other water control district or most of the water control districts around us, their assessment has increased along with with the the millage rates as well.
So, I mean >> for certain places, >> Frank, do you have those those comparables with you tonight as to what other community like Indian trails? What are they for acre? >> Those before. >> No, I know. But some people weren't here last meeting, right? >> They're significant. I can tell you my assessment in the trail right now is
$1,800 >> an acre >> for an acre >> or an acre >> and we're 200. So and my neighbor all my road I live in the top half the entire neighborhood is big >> and you're a denser denser population because everybody's on acre and a
quarter and a few two and a halfs. Yeah. >> Nine times our cost, >> but going to 220 >> perspective >> that we've got to cut $592,000. >> Okay. >> Hey, I'm just one, right? So, you guys are stuck at 220. I'm telling you where
I'm at. >> I'm just saying that from 300 down to 220, which I'm just I'm just giving you the the the data. That means and we got to cut uh 500. Uh I I I mean I I Yeah. I mean
it it looks like maybe you could knock down engineering $50,000. So there I can get there I can get now now my deficit instead of 600 is uh 550 right 550. But uh my total labor
cost is uh salaries and related. They're only $834,000. >> David, the >> um >> you got to go down. >> David, >> I need to use the >> David. >> What is the amount of money
>> that you were planning on transferring from the general fund to the capital fund? >> Run, Forest. Run. >> Oh boy, we got it. >> Never mind. And we'll take a short recess while about her
too Anybody else have anything to say? Paul, you want to say anything else? Anybody want to make a I know. >> Okay, Todd's got something to say. >> So, I I have a a unique way
to resolve this issue here with the acreage assessment where we could actually go to probably 250 and still make it cheaper for the residents here and it and it would be done in another part of our budget. >> I don't know if this is the time that I could bring it up because it really it
has nothing to do with the acreage assessment but there's a way to do it or we could cover that cost. I don't know if you want to discuss that now or how you want to deal with that. So my my thought process was there's a 675 line item. We take that, we pay down the
garbage assessment from 450. We could take that down to five to $50 and that saves everybody, every resident year $400 on their taxes on that line item. And if you take an average of five acre lots here, right, and you did an extra
$50, that would be $250. They're still saving $150 on their tax bill by putting that assessment at 250 and doing what I'm talking about with the 675. >> You you follow the you follow the logic. >> I follow your logic, but taxes only go
in one direction. So, no, I I'm not one for jumping to 250. Um because that that gap will fill. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, no, I'm I'm happy with where you were earlier. So, and and I'm not sure we'll be successful with the your
other endeavor. So, >> well, we'll be successful if you vote for it. >> You know, >> has five making that. >> While I'm heavily armed, I do like to be able to call the sheriff every once in a while. >> Okay. Well, I need a motion for
something or >> this is this is first reading, right? >> First reading. >> No, this is it. >> Yeah, there is no second one. >> It's a resolution. Oh, that's right. I'm sorry. >> This is the assessments. There's two readings on the millillage, but
>> that's right. This is the assessment. >> Somebody want to make you want to make a motion for 250 and see if it passes. >> What's the deadline? >> September. So, you can't even table it till next meeting. >> I make a motion to um do the assessment
at 220 an acre. >> I'll second it. And can we look at the budget and tell us where where that's going to come from? Any recommendation where that's going to happen? >> It's going to come from job cutting. >> Well, what's our what's our complete salary? What's all of our salary?
>> We just buy six people. What's all of our salary combined? What's the dollar amount >> for this for this part? >> Oh, for road and drain a million1 131 and change. >> No, for road and drainage. Yeah, for road and drainage it's uh yeah, a
million million 8 million >> a million8 for town hall. >> It is. I'm sorry was looking at the wrong >> thought it was eight something >> drainage >> it's a million 1312
>> million 1313 so we'll we'll cut it and since you can't take a half of a person we may go from three crews to >> three crews to one >> I think we need to look at our administrative top and we have two top administrative positions I think that uh a decision needs to be made to cut one
of the top administrative >> this is no there's two the two publics in public works I think we look at we need to keep a superintendent and get rid of a director of public works that's a big big savings >> and I don't think we need two top administrators there so I think we need
to cut that position that's my personal opinion um >> I think town hall is going to be having to look at at cinching up their pants too so >> well I think that's we're on the right track >> missed one right here so that's where I think we are there I think you cut that and maybe you don't have to cut a whole
cro Um because that's a bigger >> Yeah. a little re little reorg. >> That little reorg. Yep. That's a bigger salary. >> And I I think it's horrible to be sitting here talking about cutting people's jobs, but just and I'm appalled
that people are applauding about it, but it is what it is. Um so, >> so we have a motion and a second to set it at 220 >> with what? with >> it's not our job to make the budget cut.
Our job is to set the rate and then the town manager has to figure out and the CFO have to figure out how to reach that rate. We can certainly make recommendations like I did of where you might make cuts. Um but that's where
we're at. So >> just >> we have a motion to understand that's approximately a $600,000 cut. >> Correct. Um, you've got 1.1 32 million uh uh salary. So, $600,000 if
you took it all from the salaries would reduce you down to $532,000. Um, you've made a suggestion about a potential cut. Um, as I had indicated in the the break, um, the
the projection of what for the general fund was that they were going to transfer approximately $600,000 to capital. So you will have a choice whether it's a cut of a line item on uh for 675 or um
taking money from capital that's right now funneled towards capital um and fill the gap again um as you did last year. That is a possibility. Um,
you don't have to make that decision at this moment in time, but that is a possibility when you're looking at that gap of that approximately $560,000. >> Okay, we have a motion and a second. This requires three or four. Yes,
>> simple majority. >> This is simple. >> So, what was decided was to back the top position and acrew. No, we didn't say that. We said looking at different scenarios at the top and crew
>> and it was a suggestion. >> That was a suggestion by one council member. >> So, and we talked about cutting engineering as well. >> We talked about we made some suggestions and we talked about that the decision is ultimately yours of how to make it happen.
>> Suggestion was made. If you're asking me to cut staff, then you all have to be able to go ahead and set service levels, and they have not been set. So, we will go to the 220, but we will not be able to deliver the
service levels that have been requested for the last number of years. >> And I heard tonight that all we're doing is, you know, keeping the lights on here. So when we are doing less and we are still paying more, I question
whether that is really what people want. I just have to say it. It's my responsibility. >> Next year we might be sitting here or somebody else might be sitting here and said, "Please do 250 an acre because that's not working what you got." >> Maybe we'll find out.
>> Yeah. All the might, you know, they might say more. They might. >> Oh, we believe you guys now. I don't know. just to get it on. Thank you for making that point about believing us. Um the fact committees for several years
prior to the sitting fact committee um made continuous and consistent recommendations. >> I did do that since 229 >> and they were unanimous and they included some of the people who sat here
tonight and said not to speaking of which what is the fact committee's recommendation this year >> roll back in 200. >> No, wait a minute. >> Perhaps if we didn't do this at the 11th hour and we were actually doing this since January and letting FAC meet
instead of limiting to four meetings right before these numbers, we'd actually have a clearer picture of what this looks like. So, >> I heard stuff like non-essential services and I don't know what that is because I guarantee the five of us couldn't agree to that. essential service essential service
fiddle playing at five. I don't know but >> I I heard three recommendations >> that is what I'm saying about the level of service. So >> you can acknowledge the five of you wouldn't agree on what's essential. I would say that the key question that I
have asked you all for many months is what is the level of service? And I heard council member Coleman say, "Let's get the budget done and then we'll go back and we'll figure out the priorities." Well, if we've already cut the staff, they're gone.
And that's I just want to be very clear because we cannot deliver what we don't have resources. >> I said that because I don't think that I I don't think it's it's pertinent to to decide on I'm we're going to do all these projects and then go, "Okay, now how are we going to pay for it?"
>> Great. you know, I we have this, we have this, we have this. I I understand that, but we we want to do this, this, and this. We want to maintain mode canal banks. We want to maintain um you know, smaller culverts that, you know, were built too small. We want to maintain these roads. We want to we want to do
this. I that's kind of where I was getting because we kept having these meetings and kept just kind of and it's like, no, we need to get to here, get this done, and then things happened in the middle. We couldn't have a meeting on prioriti pri prioritization of things
and this and that and the other because well our attorney quit and this happened and this happened. So you know here we are now and we have to make this rough decision. The the the the part I'm sad about really I mean amongst the other
stuff that that really gets me actually doesn't make me sad it kind of gets me is folks stand on and they stood on we didn't raise taxes this year. We didn't raise tax this year. We didn't raise taxes this year. We maintained it for this long. Well, if you had increased it
20% at a time, right? We'd be at 300 now and paying and have a level of service and everybody would be happy, >> right? instead of instead of going, "Oh, we maintained it and now we're six, eight years later and going, "Oh, well,
you need to m you need to in order to maintain what you did because you're spending all this other money, you need to raise it 100 bucks." You see what I'm saying? >> But at the same time, I don't think it's right to raise it 50% at one time either. So maybe next year it'll be another $20. >> It's It's a tough pill. It absolutely is. But I mean, and again, and I hate to
be like, oh, be careful what you ask for because the reality is when you have less people or whatever or less equipment, we bought a lot of equipment, you know, you you can't you can't staff a Publix with with three people, right? You can't
st you can't staff a Publix with three people. You can't walk into Publix and expect to get your eggs and your milk and your bacon when there's only three people working, right? So, you know, I'm not saying 100. I'm not saying that. If you recall when we voted to on the preliminary, it was let's just put this
here so we can get down the road and then we'll see where we are that way if we need to. And you know, that's >> a tough spot to be in. In answer to the the question as to what the fax recommendation was, they did not make a
recommendation to alter the proposed rates of $300 for this assessment, $450 for the solid waste assessment, and um three mills. >> They didn't object to it. Is what >> they didn't they did not object.
>> I I would disagree. Mr. Sud has stood up here and said keep it at 200. So >> Mr. committee. >> The committee the committee did not make a motion with respect to the issue despite it being asked for. They made some other motions with respect to how
the money should be spent. They did not object to the revenue. >> That's an absolute fact. >> He he did specifically say one of the most important things tonight is to make a motion for the military. And that didn't happen. That didn't happen.
Right. There was no motion of a recommendation for the millage rate. I don't think he specifically asked about the acreage assessment, but he did ask about the millage rate specifically and said it's very important tonight to make a recommendation for the miller rate and there were five other motions made. None of them were that.
>> That's fact. >> So the only assumption you can make is that they weren't objecting to it. Th >> this is the this is the voting that we were handed out last time. So >> there's nothing as to the >> person did read from these. So >> yeah,
>> right because because there was a chair that was dominating the meeting. >> Okay. >> Well, that's that is true. >> They only give them an hour and a half meeting >> to go through a mountain of >> Okay. All right. >> So, mayor, there's a motion on the floor
from council member El. Remy and council member McClendon for 220 per acre. >> Correct. Are we ready to take a >> Would you like me to do a roll call vote? >> Yes, please. >> Okay. Council member Coleman.
>> Yes. >> Council member El Ramy. Yes. >> Council member McClendon. >> Yes. >> Vice Mayor Herszog. >> Yes. >> Mayor Kaine. >> Yes.
>> Motion passes five to zero. >> Okay. Um, I'm going to reconvene the town council meeting, but I'm going to point out that it's 9:43. Um, and we have a lot left to do, and I personally have a 91year-old,
almost 92 year old mother that caregiver left a couple of hours ago that I spend Wednesday night with. We usually have our meetings on Tuesday, and I really need to get to her at this point. So, I'm going to suggest that we reassess and reconvene tomorrow night at six o'clock with no public comment. No, not
no public question. No public meeting >> because this is a budget. >> What we would need to do is we would need to open the open read the items, open the public hearing and then continue that public hearing until tomorrow night if you're going to do
that. >> But first I I'm just making a proposal question and Valerie question because I know we can't be in opposition to what is it the county budgeting in the school district. Is it okay >> public hearing on this day advertised?
>> Yeah, >> I talking a separate >> you're going to be fine on the continuence. The the question of whether or not there is um one of those other meetings on uh tomorrow. I don't believe so, but I'm not 100% sure. >> Okay. That that that I just dawned on
me. >> You can't conflict with the county, >> which is why we're on Wednesday night to begin with the school district. >> But theirs was Tuesday. >> I hope so. Yeah. So >> theirs was Tuesday. Yeah. >> I believe don't believe there's a conflict, but I'm >> Okay. >> Not gonna.
>> All right. So So what we So first of all, is every Are you okay with that? Yes. Are you okay with that? >> Uh I'm going to be going to make it happen. Start it sooner than 6. >> No. She has somebody to drop off in Bokeh at 4:30. She's going to be going to be back here. >> Screaming up here to get to be screaming up here to get here at 6.
>> Huh? >> Maybe a police escort. >> Yeah. Share >> right now. Nothing. Okay. All right. Okay. So, we I am requesting a motion to continue this meeting to Thursday, September 4th at 6 PM.
>> Not yet. They have to they have to >> they have to do every single one of them. We have to read it and then they have to open the public hearing and then continue um the deliberation on. >> So, basically we have to reconvene as a
town council. Valerie has to read five, six, and seven. And then we make a motion to continue. >> You're going to do it for each one of them individually. >> The resolution, just the ordinances. >> It is the resolution on the solid waste
and um the uh resolutions on the millage and the >> Okay. So, Valerie, can you We're reconvened at the town council. If I haven't already done that, I think I have, but I'm doing it again. Valerie, could you read item number five, please? >> Okay. So, on the agenda,
we have um item number five, which was on your agenda for the audience. Uh item number six, consideration of approval of resolution number 202567, a resolution of the town council of the town of Lockahhatchee Gross Florida relating to the provision of residential
solid waste collection services in the town of Lockahhatche Gross Florida approving the assessment rate for residential solid waste collection services for fiscal year 2025 2026 imposing a residential solid waste collection assessment against assessed property located within the town of
Lockah Hatchee Groves for the fiscal school year beginning on October 1, 2025, approving the assessment role, providing for collection of the assessments pursuant to the uniform method of collection, providing for severability, providing for conflicts, and providing for an effective date.
>> A public hearing has been scheduled at this time. >> Public hearing has been scheduled at this time and we're continuing it. >> Open it up first. >> Okay. Okay. We're open. The public hearing is open. >> Yeah. ask if they want to have any public comment at this point in time
because these people came. >> Do we want to have any public comment at this point in time? >> Of course. >> Thank >> Well, thank you for an excellent decision, but I would tell you this is only 50% of the equation. You have to
specifically cut 30% increases given to the top heavy management. You and it and the money flows from one fund to another to another. It's like all collective. You can't just look at yes for tax reasons you're looking at fund by fund but you can't just say oh I'm cutting
funds here and I also want to point out that a gentleman right here he's the only one in the town getting 0% increase and I pointed out in my >> comments earlier so anyway my point is you cannot just say oh we are going to fire this and cut the services what
about these 30% increases given to the top management and lobbyist 200,000 and travel budgets and credit cards this is This is not right. And tomorrow and and I'm sure all the people who are listening, please come and present your thoughts on the cost cutting. We did the
taxes today which is a great achievement. But now we are going to tomorrow focus on cost cutting and this is not acceptable. Just letting hardworking people just fire them and keep your top heavy people just give them 30% increases. This is not right. Thank you.
>> I'm upset with >> Yeah. Um, >> are there any other public comments? >> We are we are reconvening tomorrow night. Just make that clear. >> We're on item number five, which is resolution 202567.
>> Yeah, you can you can comment tomorrow on five. >> Six. >> Six. Sorry. >> Yeah. If you don't tonight. >> Yeah. If you don't Yeah. >> Yes. Public comment will be available tomorrow night. Doing the six o'clock. We're not doing work non-aggenda stuff. >> Yeah.
When we Yes, ma'am. >> Yes, ma'am. >> It will be appropriate at this point in time to continue the public hearing until tomorrow night. >> Okay. On this motion >> for each one. We got to do it for each one.
This item continue at 6 p.m. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> Okay, let's do six. >> Okay. Item number six, >> which on your agenda? Item six for solid waste. Could you vote
it tonight? >> No, I have to >> No, we have we have >> I mean we have a deadline we have to deal with. >> Yes, we do. September 8th, >> right? >> Okay. Friday. Tomorrow's fine. Okay, we >> just trying to >> I know. I I know. I was just making sure we weren't missing a date.
>> Let her read it in. Okay. Uh consideration of approval on resolution number 202569, a resolution of the town of Lockahhatche Gross, Florida, establishing the tenants of millillage for the town of Lockahhatche Gross, Florida pursuant to the budget summary for the fiscal year 2025 2026 in
accordance with chapter 200 Florida statutes as amended setting forth the date, time, and place for the second and final public hearing to adopt the town's millage rate for the fiscal year 2025 and directing >> Time's up Valerie. past.
>> It is right. Uh setting the publication of notice thereof, providing for severability, providing for conflict, providing for an effective date. >> Are there any public comments? >> Yeah, public hearing has been scheduled at this point in time.
>> At 9 motion to continue >> open the open the public hearing. >> The public open public hearing is open. I I make a motion that we table this until tomorrow where we reconvene September 4th at 6 PM for resolution 2025-69. >> Second. >> Second.
>> Okay. All in favor? >> Okay. Number seven, Valerie. Consideration of approval on resolution number 202570. A resolution of the town council of the town of Lahachchi girls, Florida, adopting a tenative budget for the fiscal year beginning October 1, 2025 and ending September 30, 2026.
Setting forth the date, time and place for the second public hearing for the adoption of the town's budget for the fiscal year beginning October 1, 2025, adopting the fiscal policies and directing publication of notice thereof providing force severability conflicts and an effective date. A public hearing has been scheduled.
>> Comment a public hearing has been set for at this time. It's open. >> I make a motion that we table this uh resolution 2025-70 until tomorrow, September 4th at 6 p.m. >> Second. All in favor? I >> Okay. All right. Can I have a motion?
>> Motion to motion. You need a motion to >> continue the remaining balance of the meeting. >> Continue the remainder of the meeting. >> Who's making the motion? Have we table the remaining items until tomorrow, September 4th, 6 p.m.? >> Second. >> All in favor?
>> I. >> Now, can I >> Motion? >> Motion to recess. >> Recess. My bad. >> Your CFO will not be here. >> What? >> Your CFO will not be able to. >> Okay, >> David.