Mr. Curts, can you hear us? >> Yes. >> Council member Kaine, >> yes. >> Vice Mayor Sud, >> present. >> Thank you. Uh, so we did begin the first portion of the meeting. Um, there were
no changes to the agenda. It was approved as uh presented. There will be an a quick announcement from division fire chief VRO once she's able to uh get here to our meeting. And we are currently uh being provided a presentation by Gina Leveski
of the Palm Beach County Commission on Ethics. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Whether it's a quick question or a formal advisory opinion, reaching out ahead of time can make all the difference.
Advisory opinions in particular provide guidance based on your circum set of circumstances and when relied upon in good faith, they offer protection moving forward. If there's one takeaway I'd like to leave you with, it's this.
If something causes you to pause even briefly, that's the time. >> You don't need to be certain there's an issue. You don't need to know whether the code applies. If you're unsure, ask.
You can find resources or contact us at palm beach county.com or by calling 5613551915. Thank you again for your time and for your continued commitment to public service. Is there anything about the annual
report that seems like something we should be aware of or League of Cities meeting coming up next week with um an ethics class, the the mandatory one, I assume. >> Oh, you do? >> Yes, we do. Um and >> it's early this year. It's usually in October.
>> Yeah. So, uh I believe some people can sign up. It's a first come first serve on that. And otherwise, the online option is still >> that'll give you your four hours of state training and include the county training. Are you sure you want to go?
Exactly. >> Actually, I'm not going down south, right? >> It is. >> Yeah. Know I'm not going to be able to make it. >> So, yes. And but Palm Beach County still offers their on theirs online as well, right? >> We do offer ours online and I have been working on a new training, an updated
training for several months now that I keep saying is going to be put up soon, but then I keep getting more roadblocks like ADA compliance stuff and so I'm not going to promise it soon anymore. Well, soon it's like it's all thought, right?
>> It's all relative. >> Well, thank you. Any questions? Any questions? >> Thank you so much. Thank you for having Sorry for all the >> the uh delays. >> Thanks, Miss Gina. >> Right. That brings us to agenda item. I'm
sorry. Comments from the public. >> Yes, madam mayor. We have two cards. The first card we have is Virginia Standish. Good evening, Virginia Standish, Luxah Hatchee Groves. Um, longtime resident of this community. I've heard different
issues in this community in the past two years. one has now gotten my attention strongly as to the inconsistency of what land owners in this community are told specifically because as many of you know I do work as a real estate agent and I
am constantly sending people to the town to get a response. Today, I sent all of you and your community uh development staff member an email documenting and once again asking that
I've been asking since October of 2025 over and over that this town needs to review its tree mitigation policy on with the uldc committee and also how staff conducts itself with a community
and the responses it gives to land owners. I may have left that out, but that is where I'm going. It is seems to me like it's going to talk to a financial institution when you're looking for a mortgage. Oh, we'll tell you about this, which gets us a lot of money, but we're going to leave out the fact that you could do X, Y, and Z.
Also, um, in this town, anyone can come in and say they're bonafideed a and clearcut a property. The in researching ul your uldc tree mitigation, I'm going over it line by line for conflicts. One section says no tree survey required for
footprint. Another section says tree survey required. I'm hearing from land owners when I ask what were you required to do in this tree survey? Was it all the trees or just the area? Oh, all the trees. Then I hear from somebody on step, no that's not right. There's
inconsistency and you are failing the community. And when a land owner comes to you, I have to ask why they are not told about the option to do a declaration of bonafide affidavit which would defer tree mitigation whether they
are going to continue on the property or sell the property. Um again I have sent you the email. I ask that you pay attention to it in detail because your staff is not giving all the answers to land owners. As an example, I had situation no mention that the site plan
could transfer, which I came before you and it was like, well, site plan should be able to transfer unless there's something unusual. That was not stated to the current owner. No mention of the uh not by a particular staff member. Thank goodness your town attorney did
mention the declaration and bonafide affidavit. Um, and that leads me to the fact as you're making changes, this town needs to get consistent in its process and delivery of information to the public because you are failing desperately. Thank you. And I know you
have good intentions to get this right, but you're not close on this issue. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Standish. >> Madame Mayor, the last part I have is Tracy Rafflewitz. Good evening, Mayor Council. I think this is
Tracy Rafitz, 1261 FRO. Before we get into tonight into tonight's agenda, I just really want to recognize our interim town manager, Valerie Oaks. We've often come to this podium to point out just our problems, but I also believe in recognizing people when they're doing a great job. Valerie,
you've stepped into a difficult situation with professionalism and grace. You and your team have done an outstanding job. It shows and I simply wanted to say thank you. Keep up the good work. >> Thank you,
>> Madam Mayor. That's all the cards I have. >> Thank you. Always nice to hear positive things. So, that brings us to uh the consent agenda, which is a sing Did we lose the connection? >> Apparently.
>> Yeah, >> apparently. Yeah, we are losing the connection intermittently meeting. >> So, >> yeah. >> Um, Vice Mayor Sud, I see you're back on.
Uh, I had asked if there was any, uh, questions on the consent agenda. That's a single item of minutes. >> No, I'm good. Thank you. Just so you know, the connection is dropping every few minutes. All of the people, including
um Council Member Kaine and others are experiencing disconnection. So, um just bear with us. But yes, no, no question on my end. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. Council member Kaine, are you are you uh connected? >> I am.
>> Any questions? No, thank you. >> All right. Um, we have a motion to approve consent. All those in favor? >> I >> I >> I >> I opposed hearing none. Motion passes. 5-0.
>> That's going to bring us to um the public hearing portion of tonight's meeting. >> Who would like to take this? Madam Chair, Karen, >> are you on the line? >> Yeah, I will. >> Okay. But before you before you proceed, let's go ahead and have the town clerk read the proposed resolution into the
record and open the public hearing. >> Proposed resolution 2026-51, a resolution of the town council of the town of Loxahhatche girls, Florida, approving a sign related variance for an additional monument sign not located at a driveway consisting of approximately
3.4 43 acres generally located at the northeast corner of Southern Boulevard and Fro with an address of 13475 Southern Boulevard providing for conflict severability and an effective date.
>> Thank you. Uh mini standards director. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Karen Gardner Young, community standards director. Um this item number three as well as number four which is a companion petition. Uh the applicant has requested that we
continue this matter to the September 8th meeting due to the fact that their main consultant is unavailable for tonight's meeting. Staff has no objection to the request and I believe um Jeff has indicated in his memo that it is within the right of the council to
make a decision on whether they want to grant the the continuence or not. So, we're asking for it to be moved to a date certain of September 8th. Correct. >> That is correct. And that's to avoid having to renotice. >> Thank you.
>> Make a motion to continue. >> I'll second. >> All right. Do you want to make the motion the date? >> Oh, September 8th. I >> September 8th at 6 p.m. >> Oh, okay. Like to make a motion to continue till September 8th at 6 p.m.
I'll >> second. All right, we got a motion to continue to September 8th at 6 PM. Items agenda items three and four which uh constitute um resolution 202651 202652
and ordinance 20263. >> No, that's a different >> Okay. So, we have an agenda numbering because it's not three and four. Three is one item. >> Thank you for that clarification. three has two proposed um resolutions
associated with it. >> Thank you. So that would be continuing resolutions 202651 and 202652. Uh any public comment on this? >> No, madam mayor. >> All right. All those in favor >> I >> I
>> opposed hearing none. Motion passes 5. All right. Okay. Item number four, uh, the public hearing is also now closed. Item number four is the proposed ordinance number 20263. Town clerk, please read that into the record on
first reading. Proposed ordinance 20263. First reading. An ordinance of the town council of the town of Loxahhatchee Groves, Florida, approving a master plan amendment for the Groves Town Center Plan Unit development, PUD, including amendments to previous conditions of
approval, and to reflect the remaining development allowances in the PUD, generally located at the northeast corner of Southern Boulevard and B Road, more specifically described in exhibit A, provided for conflict, severability, and an effective date. Before we
continue on with this item, um as we had mentioned at the beginning of this meeting that there have been a couple cases of COVID in the office. Um and so we do have council me two council members that are attending via Zoom. However, we do have a rule uh rule
number 12 that is in the council's rules of procedures that talks about um a council member shall not be allowed to participate by phone in a quasi judicial hearing. However, um per the town attorney, this rule can be waved uh due
to this uh special circumstance. J Jeff, do you want to weigh in? >> Well, it as a rule that's adopted by resolution, it can be amended by resolution and a motion is a quasi resolution. So, you know, it's an
effective resolution. So, if it were uh the council's desire, they could either um change the rule at this point in time on a permanent basis or they could change it on um an immediate basis with
respect to this particular matter. Um even though this item is a first reading and there hasn't been a formal um public hearing associated with it, it is part of the quasi judicial process. Um and as
such uh all the quasi judicial um procedures such as swearing in people who are going to testify on the matter um your disclosures um and those kind of things should be um
should be uh done if you are going to move forward with the item. So um that's the status of the matter. I think the applicant has been made aware of the the situation. Um and the first question to
them is whether or not they want to proceed. Um or whether they want to request a a continuence of this matter till date certain. Um and so we might want to hear from them on that issue. um
and then uh hear from the council as to how they would want to proceed. >> Okay. They have stepped to the podium. I'm not sure you can see that from your vent. >> Yes, I can see that, but >> please proceed. >> Good evening. >> Oh, you do have to be close. >> You do.
>> My name is Katherine Rossmell. I'm an attorney with Lewis Longman and Walker here on behalf of the applicant. >> Are you able to hear me, Mr. Attorney? >> Uh yes. So I think that explains the phone call that I got this um afternoon that I returned after hours.
>> Uh yes sir, no problem. It was it was partly to uh handle this issue. So I think that we can do it here. Um as as mentioned this is before you in the form of an ordinance which means necessarily it will come back to you for second reading. So we would ask that you do
move this item forward. We understand the difficulties um with the present circumstances. Obviously, those are beyond the applicant's control. And because you will have a second opportunity at your September meeting to consider this application along with the other applications that are associated
with this, um you know, any approval tonight is not a a binding approval. It must still go through the second reading process. So, we would ask that you do move it forward. >> Right. >> Thank you. >> That being that being said, they they do want to move forward with this item. They understand the the circumstances.
Um uh so the the first question I think before the um the board or the council is whether or not they want to um amend rule 12 or limit participation
um of the consideration of this item uh in accordance with rule 12 uh to the three of you that are there physically present. Uh the council members that are not present, would you like to weigh in?
>> I will. Um I would certainly like to participate in this. I certainly have them some things to say, but I wouldn't be in favor of permanently amending the rule because I think it's there for a reason and this these are extraordinary circumstances. So, um I would I would suggest that we
wave it just for this particular meeting. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's fine. I agree. Yep. >> All right. So, can I get a motion to um Oh, should we wave suspend? What What
language would would you prefer, Jeff? >> I would suggest you um you suspend rule um 12 and allow the participation of those council members who are appearing by Zoom tonight. >> Thank you. Can I get a motion to that
effect, please? Uh motion is suspend rule 12 for this proceeding only. >> Second. >> Right. And allow for their participation. >> And allow for their participation. Sorry. >> I thought by suspending we were doing that. Sorry. >> So I guess we don't really need public
comment on that. So >> we have a motion to suspend rule 12 um to allow the participants uh council member participants via Zoom to participate in this process. All those in favor? I >> I >> I
>> I >> opposed hearing none. Motion passes 5-0. >> Um now, as as indicated, this is not the decision point, but this is still part of the quasi judicial process. So, um,
if we could have, um, anyone who is going to testify in regards to this matter, whether they be in the audience or, um, applicants or, um, members of staff or consultants who
are appearing by Zoom, um, if you could all raise your right hands and do you swear or affirm uh that the testimony you're about to give in these matters is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> I do.
>> Okay. Witnesses are sworn. Um I'm assuming that uh anyone who um stood up uh is readily identified that were there. I thank everybody that um
was participating by Zoom uh including uh Karen and uh Karen Gardner Young, the um community standards director and Caitlyn Forbes from Complete Cities were sworn in. I'm
not sure if anybody else was on this matter um that was on Zoom. >> All right. Should we proceed with reading the ordinance, please? >> Madame Mayor, is this resolution 2020603? I've already read it.
>> It's an ordinance. >> Ordinance. Did you already read it? I'm sorry. As you >> Yes. >> Got all confusing about suspending and waving and all those good things. So, uh, would would you like to hear from staff first on this matter,
>> please? >> Madame Mayor, if I may, this is Caitlyn Forbes with Complete Cities Planning Group, the town's planning consultant. I'm happy to provide a brief introduction of the item and then turn it to the applicant for further information. >> Thank you. >> Great. So, as described, the item before
you tonight is an ordinance to amend the Gross Town Center Master Plan. It does two things. The first item that the ordinance achieves is um it allows the town council to consider additional waivers. And that's important
because what you're not doing is you're not approving the waivers um tonight or through the master plan on second reading. the master plan language with the conditions of approval is written um are strictly a potential list of waiverss that the town council could
consider in the future subject to a site plan resolution. So this is essentially setting up the foundation for the council to even be able to consider certain types of waivers, additional waivers that the applicant is considering. The second thing that this ordinance does um is it shows the draw
down um or essentially the the reduction in the remaining development allowances. So the applicant is proposing approximately a 2700 square foot fast food restaurant. There's maximum square footages that are permitted throughout Gross Town Center. So it's showing uh the reduction of that bucket for the
remaining development allowance. So uh the primary consideration and focus for tonight is focusing on those additional waiverss that the applicant is seeking. again just the allowance to even request them and then at your next meeting should the item pass you would be considering actually approving those
waivers. So that's an important distinction um for tonight's discussion. So the three waiverss that the applicant is considering be added to the or requesting be added to the consideration list are as follows. It's a reduction in the permitted size of the parking stall
spaces on site specific to the gross um or to the Panda Express site. Um also to allow an increase in the distance of the loading zone from the building and then a deviation uh to deviate from the uh
requirements for minimum foundation planting. So basically the length of the building that has plantings abuing the foundation of the building. They're looking to slightly reduce that from the 40% required. Um, so with that, I'll let the applicant um make their
presentation. I believe Mr. Aaron Moore with the applicant team is available u to make a presentation and has some additional information for you. >> Okay. I I would like a brief explanation as well on waiverss versus variances.
Mhm. So waivers are uh there there's a slightly lower threshold to issue a waiver. Um there's different criteria. Um importantly the variance um criteria within the code require a demonstration
of a hardship and those hardships can't be self-created. Um so there's slightly different criteria in approving a waiver and that's outlined um starting on page 43 of the agenda um document that gives you the um various justification
criteria that the applicant had to demonstrate. Um generally it includes identifying protection identification protection and enhancement of natural areas, the provision of open space and landscaping in excess of the code requirements, provision of pvious area,
um the preservation of natural vegetation, the joint use of driveways, cross access cross access opportunities, um and then additional information um per the town planning directive. So, um, not all of the waiverss requested are
necessarily directly related to some of these criteria. Um, but they do have to demonstrate that they comply with the waiver criteria versus the variance criteria. So, the the variance criteria overall has a higher threshold. >> Thank you for that explanation.
>> Um, are you all ready to to speak? All right. Thank you. Thank you. Good to see you tonight in a couple months. Uh, is the presentation loaded? >> I'm sorry. Can you identify yourself also? >> Yes. Sorry. Aaron Morris, CPH consulting
uh consultant for the applicant. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you very much. So, this is uh the Panexpress Gross Town Center application. Uh tonight we're here for ordinance 2026 uh 03. I think we just read everything so you guys know what
it's about. But we're requesting tonight is obviously recommendation approval by town council to second reading bill in September. Um >> I'm going to hop back up for just a minute here again. Katherine Rossmo still with Lewis Longman and Walker still on behalf of the applicant. And
let me start by just saying thank you for the consideration of adapting to the circumstances tonight. We do we do appreciate it. Um I wanted to take just a minute to um tell you things you already know which is that you're here in a quasi judicial capacity and outline for a moment what that means. Um as you
all know in those seats there are a variety of hats you can wear. Some of them are quasi legislative which is where you set policy for the town and in a quasi judicial capacity it's really the application of the town's existing policy to a particular applicant. So that's the posture that we find ourselves in tonight. Now that
distinction is important because certain benefits and uh obligations attach to a quasi judicial proceeding. One of those is that the applicant is afforded due process. So as you as you are aware, your city attorneys swore in uh potential testimony givers, myself included, um we do have due process
rights with relation to testimony given. Another important factor of that is that any decision must be based on substantial and competent evidence. And for that reason, when you hear information presented by us tonight, it is it has been prepared by qualified professionals, by qualified traffic engineers, by qualified planners. Um,
and so in a moment, Aaron is going to give you the full rundown of the team. And then reason we do that is not to pad resumes. It's to give you the assurances that the information that you're hearing tonight um has been vetted by those who are qualified to do so. Uh staff has recommended approval of this application. And again, what you're
doing tonight is really um sort of phase one into consideration of the whole project. So the master plan was adopted by ordinance, thus its amendment is by ordinance. So it is a two-part process, but the balance of the development will be presented at your September meeting. And that's really when the full picture
will be before you. So approval tonight is not as as your staff indicated, it's not an approval of the project. It is an approval that is sufficient to move us on to the September meeting where the full presentation can be given to you all. Um in the interim of course we are remain available for the next month to
answer questions to provide additional information. We're excited to present to you tonight to answer your questions to hear your feedback. Um and with that I'm going to turn it back over to Aaron to talk you through the substance but if you have any questions for me um please let me know and I'm happy to answer them. Thank you.
>> Thanks Katherine. Um, I also want to say we we've been this at this for a while now that we submitted in March of 25. So, we've been going with staff and working with staff for quite a long time. So, uh, I want to say thank you to staff because they've they've really done a line share of work here with us
trying to get this uh, to a point where it is now so you can present it to you guys. I think you guys will like it. Here's our applicant team. Uh, Joe Sentto, who is I know listening right now on Zoom. He is the Panic Express development manager for the project. is in charge of basically everything to do with entitlements, permitting all the
way all the way up to the construction of the buildings. Uh I'm Aaron Mo with the CPH. I am our QSR program manager. Been in that position for about seven years now. Uh Matthew Barnes is the uh planner for the Gross Town Center overall development. So he's been
involved with this uh since the beginning. He knows everything there is about there. He can make it tonight, but I'm sure all of you have met with him before and know his expertise in the development. Andrea Troutman uh is the developments traffic analysis engineer. Uh they did all the original traffic
studies and counts and they are the keeper of the allocated trips and everything to do with every development coming in and updating those numbers. Sandra Gorman is a traffic consultant with CPH. She is an expert in the Q analysis. So she does it for all the schools in South Florida. She's really good at that and uh we use her quite a
bit for our Q analysis which you'll hear more about later as well. Uh Jason James is our civil engineer of record who has a long history in Florida and South Florida especially as out of Miami. Uh Emily Anderson is the project architect of record uh has specialized in the panda program for the last four years.
Uh Denita Bryant uh is our landscape architect of record uh who has been in Florida I think for 20 years now working in South Florida in particular. And David Landers was our ASA certified arborist who was on the site to do the tree survey and make the arbor assessments with council or at the
town's um arborist as well. I think they're out there together. So that is that is a quick list. There's been a lot of other people too, but these are the the main players in the applications that have taken about a year and a half to get to point where we are now. Uh one part about knowing the whole story is no one who's coming in.
Obviously, Panda Express is probably not completely foreign to a lot of you, but it might be Disney built. So, just a real quick rundown. I'll be cognizant of everyone's time here. Don't want to waste time. Uh, but Panda Express is been around uh well, actually, they're familyowned. They're one of the few family, two people own the whole thing.
This is Andrew and Peggy Chang, husband and wife. Started in 1983. Uh, had 100 stores by 93. Then, Orange Chicken exploded and they've gone up to 2,600 stores. They are very involved in the day-to-day operations. They meet on approved personally every single site.
They approve this site. So, it's a very hands-on ownership and they've been around a while. They have a very high standard of excellenciness and everything else. Main point is they're all owned by corporate. There's no franchisee. You're not going to get a panda that's out here owned by a guy who owns five stores in South Florida and
he's just looking to turn a buck. This is their pride and joy and they'll be very involved in the project. Uh that's about the history that they started. They're very people oriented. Uh they are very proud of their associates. General average salary for a general manager in West Palm Beach
County is 81,281. Uh most of general managers start as hourly assistants and almost all of their regional directors and director operations all started at hourly income in the restaurants. A big question people ask is like what is that starting salary for your staff that's working
there? Typically I think we just opened one Apollo Beach. I think they're advertising 17 to $22 an hour. So it's very competitive uh paying for the uh future employees here which we assume will be a lot from Lux Hedrick Grows itself.
They have a large robust charity wing called Panda Cares. It's like its own company. I think it's uh massive. uh they they mostly sponsor children's miracle network and boys and girls club of America which is uh children's support services and after school activities a lot of educational community education uh getting children
with uh limited opportunities more education and times to work after school hours when they can't get home uh tons and tons of money 40 4.9 million patients help the children miracle network hospitals boys and girls club 600 of them uh just absolutely massive
program uh lot of food services. They catered a lot of events. They sponsored a lot of events. They donated a lot of meals. Over 90,000 meals last year alone in 2025. They have a Panda cares day which would be in a couple days 88 every August 8th.
They uh do a Panda related event in most locations. Uh where they'll basically have schools after school, give them stuff for school coming in. That's why it's in August. Give them backpacks, supplies, everything they need and meals. Disaster relief. They're based in California, so they have quite a bit of
dis disaster relief out on the west coast. They have to east coast as well. Um they are just very beneficial with their money. Uh for Florida, there's 13 centers of hope. Um can't quite see what it says there. Uh but those are basically after school centers areas to help low-income
kids uh with their studies, tutoring, anything like that if they have single parents who just can't get away from no other extra excuse me extracurricular activities. Uh and then of course another half million dollars donated just to the children's Florida Children's Miracle Network in 20 since
2020 in Florida. They do have scholarships that they offer for children. These are three scholarship winners from last year in Palm Beach County itself. Um they are all going to college in northern Florida, I believe it is, but there are different merits and so they do give back to local communities that they're
working in. And then they also have a ton of opportunities for any community that they're in to provide any local um givebacks, fundraisers that they got to be very active and the store manager will be able to help with that.
Okay. And so back to uh the actual application. This is what we talked about a minute ago. This is the framework for the history of the PD. It was approved in 2011. So for 15 years this thing's been approved. uh and that's when the commercial framework for the property was set and all those pods.
Uh what we are doing is we are coming to be the last pod in or last parcel in pod B that's going to be developed and uh what we are doing is three applications as we mentioned that'll be before you in September we move forward. Uh tonight we're just trying to get the uh first
reading done for the waiver ordinance PD ordinance to accept consideration of the waiverss. And what this doesn't do even if it's approved, this will not increase existing land use intensity. It will not change permissible uses. It will not uh
reduce any landscape premit mitigation requirements. Uh it's not going to increase traffic intensity, traffic concurrency allocations, anything like that. Uh tonight there's nothing that gets approved for final. Uh and if it does finally get approved, none of that will change. Nothing we're proposing
increases in intensity. So here's the site plan. Uh the elements of the site plan, uh just generally speaking, uh we have a 28 foot wide access connection between the dental plaza and Culver's. That's actually continuation of a cross access agreement that was already recorded. We just have
to update it. Uh the we have a pedestrian 88 access path uh from southern all the way to Avocado and to the other process in pod B. We have 2614 square ft is our building footprint. Uh
that is the smallest building in this pod. Every other building is over 4,000 square ft. Uh our floor area ratio is 64% of what code allows. Code would allow us to be up to 4100 ft. So we are pretty small in that number. We have 29 parking stalls which is also through us
in pod B. Uh we have pvious pavers and underground exfiltration as part of our storm management storm water management system. We have integrated landscape plans with the adjoining properties that we worked on very hard with the staff to make sure that we were a continuous landscape
buffer on southern and we're integrated with everything going on the culver and the brinks dental. Uh we do provide a 20- foot landscape buffer along Avocado Avenue. The required minimum is eight. So we added a quite a bit of distance onto that. Uh
the tree mitigation includes three cyprus of or three cypress and two live oaks both 6-in caliper which is a pretty big tree 20 to 25 ft high all on site. So we're not paying anything in loo. We're not trained trying to plant it off site. We're doing everything on our property.
77% of the landscape is native plants. 50% is required by your code. 100% of our trees are native. So we're not having any exotic, any decorative canopy trees. All the canopy trees are Florida natives. That live oak, cypress, those are pretty standard classical
Florida. We also have 31% pvious surface uh which exceeds the code minimum uh by a little bit. Uh so just pointing all that stuff out that that is generally what we're proposing as our site plan.
the PED master plan amendment. Uh again it was mentioned a couple times but updating the master plan tabular data. So the allocations remain effect for the Panda Express or acreage the F trip allocations all the stuff needs to be accounted for. Uh I think the PD specifically is for square footage of commercial development which we are
under. Uh the waiver authority obviously the waiverss that we're going to talk about in a minute for parking dimensions, loading distance and frontage uh planting uh allows sight specific relief without changing the intensity or changing that particular item for any other development in the
development if pod be out. Uh and then of course every other condition that's already in the PUD unless it's specifically mentioned remains in effect. And because ours affects pod B specifically, pod B is already built out. Uh PUB section H. These are the waiverss
you've already approved in the past. Uh including outdoor lighting standards. There's a wheel stops and curbing. Uh parking size of parking spaces, which is the same thing we're requesting now for our pod that was approved for TCB, which approved 9 foot wide, 19 foot long
spaces. We're not changing the width of ours. So, we're keeping on 11, which is what you guys require. We're just wanting the relief from 22 and 1/2 ft to 20 ft. So, we'll be better in that one. And then the other one is a maximum plot size, which is I'm not sure what that was there. Plot G.
Uh, pre-roll criteria. I think we've already kind of beat that to death with the attorneys. Site plan waiverss. Uh, this is the dimension. Okay, these are the ones specifically. The W1 is to ULDC section 92 95-025
sorry parking stall dimension standard suggested uh this was also discussed with the town's consultant to match the adjacent properties. Uh we allow we are reducing requesting relief to a reduction of 20 ft in depth from 22.5. This is not over every parking stall on
the property. This is only the properties that uh the stalls are on the north south shared access and on the north side to uh match what Culver's did next to us. Uh waiver 2 95-075 is for loading zone not to exceed 30 ft from the building. So our loading zone
as close as we could get it was 51 ft and that's because we have a dimensional issue with the transformer and the um open space requirements and then we had to get our trash trash closure somewhere in there. I know a lot of developments out here put the trash cans way up on
Avocado. That's kind of ugly. Uh we keep it closer to the building itself and uh that's why we have to have it 51 feet. If we're it's 30 ft to the trash can. Um you'll see here in a minute how far it is, but we still have a safe crosswalk path or sidewalk path directly to the
point of access to the building directed away from the public entry. Not that the delivery truck will ever be there during the public time, but it is not going to coingle. For waiver three, uh that is for ULDC section 85-055-B2.
This is the foundation planting along at least 40% of linear frontage. Uh allows we were at 35% of our front edge on the north side, Avocado Avenue. Um so we're about 3 and 1/2 ft short coming across. And you'll see in a second why we can't really make that happen. Uh, I will say
that if you were the intent of this is to screen the back of the building so there is vegetation between people driving around on the road or avocado looking at the building, they would never see it anyway because they would have to see the vegetation that's all around the dumpster pad before they even got to the building. So even if we had
the 40% it would look no different. Again, this goes back to working with staff. When we first submitted this in March 11th, I think they identified 14 wavers and 10 variances that would have been required. And we've we've come a long way working with them the last year and a half to make sure all those either get resolved, changed, or um determine
whether they really apply or not. Uh so really appreciate them working with us to get us to this point. Be a little remiss if I didn't talk about some of our biggest issues here. Uh this is the Panda Express prototype. Um, this is something we're not talking about tonight, but just make sure
everyone knows this that this is a very beautiful building. They spent a lot of time on it, but it definitely doesn't look rural. It doesn't look like lots of hatching. I think that was made very clear as soon as we sent the application. So, the building on the top right is an accommodation they made in another jurisdiction, which probably
worked for them, but I think works even worse for Luxah Hatchee because it's a flat roof and it's just not a very good building that matches anything you guys have locally. So over that year and a half we come up with these accommodations. That image and rendering you see on the left of the screen there is what our latest reviewed
application full design by uh staff and your consultant have done. Uh part of the combinations we did are a hoof the hip roof element over the tower uh manered roof and l of a parapit reduce the visual impacts of the prototype elements including that big red Asian
arc the red LED lights things like that the moon gates. Uh we have added fencing. We added horizontal slotting on the ephus. Uh we went lighter colors uh gooseeneck lights which were which came up many many times in many meetings with the staff and even the local public. And
then we also removed the luxe groves panda text from the little panda statue that's hang at the front door. So, what I'd like to show you tonight is a design alternative that after further review, Panda's design team has gone back to the drawing board after really
studying what's going up and down southern and Wahhatchee. So, this is an alternative building design uh with the improved alignment with real Vista guidelines and existing architecture that's already in Wahhatche Groves. incorporates Manser repair pit, gable farmhouse metal roof, metal awnings, and
removal of all red exterior elements except for the pan express logo itself. This is being presented to you tonight as it was to the planning and zoning commission because we wanted to make sure that you guys saw this because if this is preferred over this, we
absolutely will do do this application instead. We'll have to update plans so we can get that to happen in time and still meet the September deadline. And uh we we think it's a better product. We think you guys will like it more. So we definitely wanted to show it even though we didn't have the plans ready for a full review.
Oh, went too fast. Waiver details. Uh just real quick, so you guys see I'm a very visual person, so I like to get things uh on a site plan color up. Those parking spots in blue are the ones specifically that we requesting the waiver for. Uh the parking stalls across the property to the right that's kind of
covered by everyone's heads there. Uh those parking stalls over there are the exact same size. Uh we cannot change the ones that are going up and down. That's the north south access because of the width of the property and uh matching the drive a existing. And then the one
on the north is the one that matches the culvers. And um that's also aligned with the cross access that isn't recorded on our property, but it is going to be recorded as part of this approval. We did um run the uh auto turn, which is
a software that lets you show how cars maneuver this because that's one of the questions we had. And we did it with an F250 crew cab, which is a pretty big truck. And we did not have any problems with the F250 getting the parking spots, backing out, even with the curb behind
it and navigating the whole site. And that's mostly because we're not changing the depth. We're changing the width. We're not changing the width, we're changing the depth. The second waiver is the loading zone. Not to exceed 30 ft from the building.
Uh right there in blue is the loading zone. It's it's definitely bigger than than your code minimum, but we're going to get close to the building as we can. So, the thought is now off hours, these are going to be nonoperating hours. They'll be dropping that off. They'll back up right to the front of the dumpster. And there's a little sidewalk right there at the walkway. Come in
right to the back of the building. And you can see the entrance on the back there that is on public entrance. That is a private entrance for employees and deliveries only. So, it's not 30 ft. It's 51 ft from that actual blue box. uh but is still a safe paved lit walkway that can have access to the back of the
building. And next is the uh additional interior open space requirements. Uh the area in blue is the frontage in question. The frontage on the south is not in question. The frontage of south is already 87% planted. So we we well past
the 40% on the south side. But it is not a cumulative assessment. Each frontage is assessed on its own merits. On the north side, we are only able to get 35 feet. Uh everything beyond that 35 feet is either a problem because of a disconnect on a
power meter, it is a gas meter, it is a closet for storage and tanks for the used cooking oil to be stored in and just operational issues with the building itself. And if you look to the north above that, you'll see there is landscaping just outside of it around
the transformer. And just off screen, there would be landscaping around the actual trash enclosure itself. So if the thought is that you're trying to block that building from view, there's already a bunch of landscaping north of it, blocking everything that's just another
5t away outside the sidewalk. And so with that, I'll uh I guess we'll answer any questions or conversation you guys have. >> Okay, Council Member Coleman. >> Okay, so
real quick, you're drawing sh You keep calling the north the front. >> North is up. >> I'm aware. No, I'm aware of direction, but you keep calling the north as the frontage. >> Correct. >> Right. According to your drawing, the
south is the frontage. The frontage would be the part where the customer walks into the building. >> I agree. >> The back would be where the employees make. So, that's not frontage. Right. Right. >> I made that point with Steph and Staff did not agree. >> Okay. Yeah. And I mean, and it gets
confusing when you get to page A21 because you see two different elevations and they're both the southeast corner. But I'm I'm just trying to understand one the need for two two drive-throughs. I mean, there's only one
fast food entity in Palm Beach County that I know of that needs two drive-throughs. The one that historically has two drive-throughs barely has anybody in the drive-thru. And the other one, it needs two drive-throughs, right? Because just the massive amount of people that go to that
that business. Um, I mean, Culver's, they have a pretty steady stream of business and they use one drive-thru. So, I number one, I don't see the need for two drive-throughs. Um, and then, and you're saying there's no increase in traffic
again. Why would you need You said that earlier. >> Yeah. >> Right. Why would you need two drive-throughs if there's no increase in traffic? >> There's no increase in traffic for the allocated trips. What we base our drive-through on is going to be queuing analysis.
>> Okay. >> The Qin analysis is based on a couple of different standards. It is international uh transportation >> and they did a study. The 85th percentile is 12 cars in a queue. >> Okay. >> Size of the building has nothing to do with the traffic queuing. It's all by
seats. So, the seats in the building dictate that for the 85th percentile, you're going to have 12 cars in the queue. We have 14 because 14 will be required by your code based on having the double drive-thru, >> right?
>> The 85th percentile basically states that the standard is 8 or 5% of the time when it's peak, that's where it's going to be. The maximum peak 100% maximum peak would be 14 cars, which is why you have a stack of 14 cars. So you're not blocking that cross access.
>> Okay. Well, thanks for clarification. So So basically the seats inside dictate how many you need for >> Yeah. Based drive. Yeah. Based on it and they do they do 100,000 of these assessments and update it every year and that that's what their statistical comes out to. >> You guys are going to transplant mature
cypress trees. Did I hear that right? >> Yes. 6 in caliber, 20 to 25 foot height. It's going to be impressive. I >> That'll be >> We've done We've done in the past. It's going to be quite a feat to see him come in. >> Um, you so that you you
had a um, you want to go back to a page? >> No, no, no. It was a few pages back. You were talking 22 and a half to 20 foot. You're talking about the distance, the depth of the of the parking space. >> Yes. >> At the the front at the pvious ones. I
assume that's the >> kind of looks like rip wrap in a way. It's a box that allows vegetation to grow up through it, right? >> Yeah, that's correct. >> So, there there and in the back and that's just matching the existing. >> So, yeah. So, if you're talking about pvious parking, pvious parking is on the
front edge of Southern right by the the landscape BM. >> There's also pvious parking at the very top of the screen. Those bluer ones. >> The ones on the bottom are the full 11 by 22 and a half parking spots. And then the ones going uh north to south on that axis, those are all concrete, just
standard concrete parking spots. >> So where where's the reduction in size you're looking for? The at the at the southern end. So >> no, everything in blue is where we're asking for the 22 and 1/2t to 20 foot reduction in depth. Okay. Hello. Sorry,
>> we're aware. >> So, nonetheless, I'll go ahead and ask my question and it's going to seem a lot uglier than what's intended, but >> whoever came up with that, have they ever driven through our town? >> They >> You paused. You paused. >> Not through this town. We've t we've
drawn and taken a pictures of of everything in here. >> Yeah. But >> I'd love to hear your feedback. >> Pictures and driving through are two different things. I mean, we're special. >> And I'll I'll sit up here and beat my chest and I'll tell you that we are. >> We're different. Uh we're rural first
and foremost. That doesn't I I I see that in Wellington is where I see that. Just feedback. I don't know if that's where you were going or not, but Well, okay. Well, I do have a lot of questions about waivers, but I'll take it at uh one at a
time. I know, mayor, you probably want to jump in here pretty quick, but just a little bit of feedback. I I don't see that in our town. My my one vote, my opinion. >> All right, Council Member Kaine, you said you had some questions as well.
>> Yeah. Well, and and some of them have already been answered, but my first concern, of course, was for the width of the parking spots because our our parking spots are designed wide because of the types of vehicles that are standard in our community. So,
I'm I'm not as concerned about reducing the depth by 2 feet as I would have been reducing the width. So, I'm happy to hear that the width is going to remain the same. Um I I I guess I need to see more on the plantings. I I'm always
opposed to anything that reduces planting, but uh you know we have the explanation of the other that the others is going to be screening it. So I'm guessing when the whole site plan comes into focus, we will
We lose her. >> Lost her. We will wait. >> All right. That probably means Vice Mayor Sud has also dropped. I >> think I'm still here. I don't know about everybody else. >> I think I'm here. I'm here.
>> Okay. Vice Mayor Sud, while they're getting uh Council Member Kaine on, what questions might you have? Well, the the difficulty is if you're going to allow um Council Member Kaine to participate,
it's probably important for her to see and and hear um all these questions rather than having them repeated in her abs. >> I'm here. I'm here. Can you hear me? >> We can hear you. >> Okay. I I'm here. I'm sorry. I I some
reason got dropped but um and I I thought that there was a request for a signage variance and in this but there is not. So um those were all my things that I had and I I do agree with
uh Mr. Stevens that maybe the design of the whole project needs to be relooked at because I'm still not impressed. I I like that the blue that the red lights are gone and the big giant panda sign is gone, but I I still don't see that as as
fitting in with our rural vista. That's all I have to say. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh Vice Mayor Sud, can you hear me? Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. I I have a question um for the
developers. Sir, did you know about the fact that you are dealing with a sub one acre site because the commercial developer of the groves, they sold the neighboring plots
to culver and dental offices. So they they knew or I'm pretty sure they understood that this particular plot is going to face some limitations. So when you um started planning for this
parcel, you knew you are dealing with sub one acre and with all these limitations. Yes, >> we are aware of the site size. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. And um I would like to note that uh previous
councils have approved um the master plan. So I understand some commercial activity will happen on this parcel. So the question is what kind of commercial business do we want and uh I had a phone call with Panda Express team and the
town staff to understand their plans and I'm very pleased to hear that uh Panda Express brand has taken interest in our town because they are known for their quality and long-term nature of their properties as they mentioned that the
owners are still involved and I I have exper experienced their properties myself. So I was very happy with that. However, um uh I am a bit concerned with all these
variances because um these two driveways is something that is totally um counter to our comprehensive plan. Uh if you um analyzed our comprehensive plan and our
uldc requirements, uh you would note that residents prefer or we or at least me uh with one vote prefer to have open green spaces. So I think when we spoke um I shared with you
that community is looking for something that is more open within the confines of our uldc. The design should encourage our residents or our neighbors to uh be here not just a flow of the cars that is
coming in and out and and so so that's one of the concerns but I but I would like you to know that as an entrepreneur and a small business owner myself I really appreciate your brand. I I
understand how much work it takes to alter your designs and the the the effort you took to make it compatible speaks for uh your goodwill to work with us and uh I think from my end I would
say if you know I understand the the loading zones etc during off hours we could be flexible or parking lot could be flexible but having an open community
gathering place uh would be something that uh I think I would be looking for. Um so in conclusion, I think your innovative design looks good but this is
far a distance from the ULDC requirements. Uh and it does not offer public benefits. your variances uh do not offer benefits to the public. At least I didn't hear that. Thank you
so much. >> Thank you. Uh so that brings my questions up. Uh it seems there's there's seven elements that uh must be demonstrated to to really consider the waiverss and and I think you've checked
some of those boxes, right? um because you were hitting things so quickly and comparing them to the list. I uh provision of open space and landscaping in excess of code requirements. I think you you said you had done that as well, right? >> Correct. >> Uh the identification, protection and
enhancement of natural areas on on 94 acres I believe it is. >> Um >> are you going to protect and enhance any natural areas? We're relocating existing cabbage palm trees to incorporate into the landscape plan.
>> Yeah, cabbage palms. So we don't really consider those trees that's a grass actually it's a grass. >> So very very special ancient one. uh perver uh the pvious surfaces for the
parking in excess of the code. That was um those parking spaces >> with the the grass growing through the rocks and uh preservation of native vegetation that that's where you're talking about relocating some cabbage palms.
>> Correct. >> Okay. Uh, and the use of the the cypress trees, while it's commendable, they're not really much of a buffering tree when they, you know, they tend to uh be a little bare, especially if they're not in an ideal location to to what their
needs are. >> Um, this particular design, I understand, is a new corporate prototype. This this double drive-thru design. No, it's it's been around for most QSR Browns for quite a while. We've
never done a three, but we've almost exclusively done two. Uh trying to think the last time we'd had a single because again the queueing trips >> Yeah. >> require a lot of >> Have you driven in and out of this location of of Solar Sports um
Grandmaster Vision over there? Have you tried to get in and out of the traffic situation >> for this town center? >> Yeah. >> Yes. several times. >> Yeah. A little challenging. So, >> uh yeah, especially around the wall by trying to turn left there and you can't get out. >> Yeah. And and try that during season.
So, we're looking at something that I commend you guys for attempting to take what is clearly a very modern and and Asian centric design and and attempting to to bring it into compliance with what we
are trying to achieve. My greatest concern is the traffic. Um, anybody who has spent any time over at the Home Depot with a double drive through with uh Chick-fil-A, good luck, >> right? They're they're pouring out onto the to the parking spaces all around
there. They've done their best to mitigate it. Uh, I have great concern with the the Grovestown C Center's um long-term vision of traffic control. I know our public works department has mentioned repeatedly they've had trouble with this location dealing with with
traffic coming out of their Previous councils have have made some suggestions that have been helpful, but nothing is permanent. I know this doesn't have anything to do with you, but it is the long-term vision of of this town center that continues to
become troublesome and uh it's already a dangerous and poorly designed intersection. What what number of trips are you proposing out of this location? >> Right now with the hotel approval and Panda, we're at 67%. No, no. How many trips is your store
going to generate? >> I'd have to pull up the traffic analysis, which I don't have represent, but we can get that information to you. >> Okay, that that seems pretty critical. So, and again, trying to squeeze this into this,
you know, square peg into this round hole, you're looking at, you know, how do we buffer it, make it look rural? These line drawings are great. uh as far as if we have a one-dimensional vision, but unfortunately we experience life in
three dimensions. So coming in here with these line drawings and arrows and stuff, I I don't think one can really appreciate what what the activity and how people are going to access in and out of parking spaces. How does it interact with the the neighboring
building as well? So, you know, I I think that um for me, we need a little better understanding of of what this all looks like in reality um versus a very isolated picture of a building
with nothing around it. Um so, I see somebody else. >> Madame Mayor, if I may jump in >> approaching. Yes. >> So, just to to bring us full circle to the start of our discussion, you know, the questions that you're asking obviously make complete sense to ask. The reason Aaron and I are not equipped to answer them tonight is because
tonight is is not the public hearing where those items are to be discussed. At that point, the traffic engineer would be here to answer those items. The item tonight is just to allow the ordinance to uh allow us to move forward to bring the full set of information forward to you to consider. So, it's as
much procedural as anything else. So, it's not an attempt to not answer. >> I understand. Let me stop you right there. So, we've been told tonight that this is just a waiver to Oh, hold on. This is just an an ability to allow these waivers to happen, right? But now
you're saying your second reading is where you're going to come in, you're going to present everything and that's going to be the big show where we're going to approve or not approve your whole thing. So, this is not just considering waiverss tonight. We are considering the site plan as well. If I
may clarify, the actual site plan and the variances are separate applications. It's just that they would be on the same date. So it it is not within the context of this ordinance and your your city attorney. Well, so the site plan is is a oneshot deal is what you're telling me?
>> Yes. >> This ordinance is two votes, but the site plan approval would be one. >> Yes, >> that's correct. If you if you do not move forward um and approve uh the um ordinance, if
you denied it on um first reading, um they would have to go back and amend their site plan and and make some other determinations because their existing
site plan um contemplates the application and grant granting of uh the waiverss. This process, it's a little bit convoluted. Um but it's the way uh it has been set up under our code. Um
and the council is first asked whether or not you want to consider um these additional waiverss and they can be limited to a particular site. um
because these particular waiverss that they're requesting don't fall within um the waivers that were uh granted um at the origin of the um master plan. So,
it is more discretionary in my view um for you to consider whether or not you want to even allow these uh allow for the
potential waiverss. Um because once you allow for the potential waivers, then it it falls into whether or not it meets the the criteria associated with granting the waivers. Um but the council does have the ability to say no, that
wasn't a listed waiver and we're not going to allow um further waiverss um and that you haven't demonstrated the um uh the requisite uh requirements to
uh for us to um even move forward with that. Um I think that's a possibility um for you to tonight. um and without the if the if there's not the potential of the waiverss um then I think the
applicant would have to go back um and make some adjustments to uh the site plan. >> Okay, thank you. Thank you for that info. That's helpful. Uh any other comments from Cal Oh, wait. We've got a light >> being patient light.
>> Council member Coleman >> noted, please. Um, so, uh, Karen, are you still with us? >> Yeah. Jeff, >> yes, Paul, I'm still with you. >> Hey, Karen, how you doing? Wow, that was
loud. Um, so sign code, monument sign. What's the overall height on the sign code? Isn't it 60 in? Um well uh I have to take a look
>> I know there's a square foot you know there's so many square feet etc but I thought the overall height was 60 was 60 in >> if memory serves I could be wrong before >> I'ming it up right now Karen >> okay great thanks yeah and and just to
again clarify um if the council has a decision or as as Jeff has indicated, the discretion to approve the waivers or not the waivers. And we only have those three waivers in front of you. >> Karen, I I I think we fully understand what we're doing tonight. It's been
explained four times. >> Okay. I apologize. >> No offense, but but we've been we've been explained four times. Um so, um and we fully understand, but I think it's very pertinent that you know the five of us understand
what the potential approval is. Even if we're approving the use of a waiver, if we don't agree with the with the three or four or 10 or 20 waiverss that the developer is proposing, then why even go through the practice of approving it at the first reading and going to the second reading? That kind of makes no sense, right? So, I think we're trying
to understand just, you know, and we're not picking on the brand of Panda Express by by all means, we're not pick um but I can tell you >> personally, I I don't want to speak for the other four um but I know they think somewhat in the same lines I do and I know a lot of the people around here do.
Um development in this town in the past has kind of gone ramshot, right? We have queen palms planted everywhere and you know, I'm not a tree hugger or anything like that, but queen palms are not native to the state of Florida. We kind of we we aspired to have this you know
rule Vista you know was was brought about years ago and it was this thing that you know if you look at everybody's farm equipment they worked with us hand in hand in hand in hand right back and forth multiple times when they built that building and they took that to
account it was back before we were incorporated back when we're trying to you know control what the county was letting happen right so a lot of us are very passionate about what goes on here and what continues to happen and the and we realize there's approvals but I think
again I think we're trying to understand you know exactly where you're going. That's why I asked the questions I ask and that's why I'm asking about the sign height because um I'm with Anita. I saw monument signs at 6 foot on the on the back here like the last page and I'm
going you know um honestly I I've been to multiple you know I I travel slightly not a lot but I' I've been to multiple communities um some in CMI where you can barely see a sign from the road but everybody tends to find their way. Um, a
comment was made. So, I don't know when it was, but that signs are a safety thing, right? I don't know why signs are have to do with public safety. Um, everybody nowadays when they want to go someplace, they're they're bringing it up on their phone anyway. So, I don't
think, you know, so we do have a sign code. I don't know. And there's some things again that I don't know that we're ready to relinquish. And I don't know if that's um but again, sorry, I'm getting off on a tangent. um on your on your west median.
I mean, currently, I mean, and I'm not I don't have a measuring tape. I haven't been out there, but you know, so we have Culver's that has a a travel pattern that runs from south to north on the east side of the building, correct? Kind of loops around, comes back. So, you're proposing that you're you're traffic's
going to come off of your drive-thru and it's going to meld into Culver's traffic. Is that what we're saying? And then we're going to exit like this when we get to the back parking lots spots. You meant on the south side after the drive. >> Yeah, they come off the Yeah, come off
the drive-thrus, you know. Um I mean, we're having an issue right now with with you. I saw the one with the 18-wheeler that was going out in front of the dental office. I don't know if they want that happening, but we have a site plan right now that was approved to exit a certain way on a certain road,
and they exit the the way they're not supposed to. So you understand this is where we're coming from, right? So again, it's I we fully I think we all fully understand what we're doing here tonight and we're just trying to understand the whole picture. >> Can I just couple rebuttals real quick?
>> Yeah. >> Uh regarding the monument sign, uh it is compliant. Uh we checked with staff and we verified that the inches is from the highest crown of the road. Uh based on survey, it actually is compliant. If it wasn't, we would >> So you're you're six foot one height on
on this on this drawing is is is from the highest crown of the road. So if it's sitting on the burm, >> right? It's 6 foot. You you see where I'm going? >> You're sitting on top of a 20 odd inch burm or whatever you have there. Right. That's I think that's what I read. >> The sign is not on the burm. I think
it's on the foot of the burm. >> It's on the foot of the burm. Correct. >> So it's up here. And then we're going off the crown of Southern Boulevard. >> Correct. >> 60 in. >> Correct. And that gives us 6'1 inches off the grade. Correct. Okay. Interesting.
Didn't realize Southern Boulevard was that much lower than the but I guess so. I mean I I commend you for including the pvious parking because we few of us have mentioned that in the past and that I
mean that is definitely a way to get green space in on this. Um, you know, I I the I I don't see how you're going to I'm looking at your I don't know how you're going to landscape that back anyway by your by
your by your drawing. It's all concrete, so I don't know how you're going to landscape that. You're you're asking for a less amount than what's supposed to be there, you know? I don't know how we're going to landscape that anyway on the back. >> Just a
So the landscaping is between the uh around we're actually putting it around the dumpster uh all the way up between the building. Oh, >> so it's not on the back of the building where the blue line was. >> It's actually back behind the dumpster that the going around. >> There's some on the back of the building >> where we where we can
>> right >> where there's not a conflict with utilities and access. But >> but again, no offense, sorry I didn't preface. I'm a I'm a building inspector by trade. So, um, it doesn't look like you have 35 ft of plantable space there. Anyway, you see this is the apprehension
with the waiver/variance, whatever you want to call it. That's that's, you know, we get this. I'm looking at this drawing. I don't see any I I I would love to honestly I I would more entertain this if you had a landscape if you had a landscape drawing in front of you. you had a finalized rendering of of
your of what you guys propose meets the rule of Vista guidelines. Um, you know, because that's that's the direction and you know, that's where I'm at. So, >> I hope we can come back in September and provide that till you get your vote. >> I Well, I mean, it's it's it's
again I don't I we got we got to do two I get it. We got to do two readings and if we just let this go forward, but who wants to spin their wheels like that, >> you know? I mean, You can't come to a consensus here. Why why even do that? I mean, I that doesn't make any
sense to me, but that's me. >> Uh, council member >> Sorry, >> Kain or Vice Mayor Sue, do you have any additional questions? >> No, not at this time. >> Thank you. >> No, not at this time. Thank you. >> Uh, I'm going to ask for public comment
now. We've got any public comment? >> Yes, madam mayor. Before you before you ask for public comment, it' probably be a good time to um for each of you to make your disclosures with respect to um any exparte
uh discussions you have had uh with respect to um this matter. I know that some of you have met with the um applicant um but as we've discussed in the past the disclosure of exparte communication is not limited to um your
discussions with uh the applicant. It could in include discussions with staff and also uh discussions with members of the public concerning this. Um so I think it would be a good time for you all to make those disclosures. uh then
take p public comment and then you can bring begin your deliberations. >> Thank you. Anybody? >> I've had conversations with Oh, sorry. >> I'll start. I had conversations not in the most recent round but previously with the representatives from Panda
Express including Mr. Barnes. >> I had conversations with Kenya about scheduling a meeting but that never came about. So realize that was >> I have not met with uh anybody for Panda, but I did attend the uh I think it was the planning and zoning committee
and sat behind the guys and that was quite entertaining, let me tell you. So >> yeah, >> yeah, I met with the Panda Express people via phone uh in the presence of the town staff and um also I spoke with
multiple residents to understand their concerns. Thank you. Thank you. I'm not quite sure why talking to residents applies to Excart. >> Hey, what? So, uh I did not speak with anybody. So, uh public comment.
>> Yes, madame mayor. We have one comment card. Uh Cassie Sushi. Cassie Suchi. Madame May, madam, madame mayor, members of council, this proposed Panda Express is being presented as just another restaurant within Lockachi Groves Town Center. However, a
comparison of other existing Panda Express restaurants operating in Palm Beach County demonstrates that the proposed Lockxahhatchee site is not like others. It's substantially more intensive than those already existing in Palm Beach County. This decision is about more than a single restaurant.
It's about the future direction of Lockxahhatchee Groves and whether our town standards will continue to guide development or whether development dictates the standards. The question before you is simple. Is the developer adapting to Lockahhatche Groves or is Lockxahhatche Groves adapting to the
developer? Developers choose to invest here knowing our ordinances, our comp plan, and our commitment to preserving the unique rural character of this community. Those standards were not created to discourage development. They were created to ensure that growth reflects the values of the residents who
call this town home. When a project requires changes to accommodate a corporate design or operational model, the only solution should be for the developer to modify the project, not for the town to modify its expectations, standards, and rules. Convenience,
profitability, and adherence to a national prototype are business considerations, not planning principles. Every exception, waiver, variance, or change granted today becomes the starting point for the next request tomorrow. Over time, individual
decisions that appear minor can gradually shape reshape the town into something its residents never intended. That is how communities lose the very character that makes them unique. We are already seeing this in real time. The developer even pointed it out that
others got the same rule changes, so they should get it as well. Your responsibility as elected stewards of our town is not to make every project fit. Your responsibility is to ensure that every project fits the town of Loxa Hatchee Groves. Loxahei Groves has
distinct identity. Residents have repeatedly expressed that they value its rural character, open spaces, and development standards. Those qualities should not and never be compromised simply because a national developer prefers a design that works best for them. The issue before you is not
whether Panda Express is a successful business or a good restaurant. The issue is whether this proposal reflects the standards and visions of Lockxahhatche Groves. I respectfully ask that you protect our town, preserve the character that residents want and have worked so
hard to maintain and vote no on this item. >> Thank you. Uh before I ask for a motion, uh can staff tell me what the uh vote was at, um planning and zoning on this matter?
>> Yes, Madame Mayor. Um there were two different attempts um at motions at planning and zoning. Um the initial motion was a motion to deny. Um that motion given that there were only four members present uh resulted in a 2- two
vote. The board then attempted to make a motion for approval also resulting in a 22 vote. >> Thank you. >> Madame Mayor May be recognized one more time. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Thank you for the courtesy. Um so I just wanted to respond to the
the final comments and making a final request. Um, in terms of waivers, I do feel like it's important to clarify that your town code specifically provides which type of waivers are acceptable to ask for and which types are not. The types of waivers being requested by the applicant are specifically provided for
in the code. So, it is not an extra code ask. It is within the footprint required by code in terms of the waiver. So, I just wanted to make that clear. Um, second, you've asked who wants to spin their wheels that way. The answer is that we would like to, right? We would like to have the opportunity to present
you with the full set of information so that you can consider these questions and we can respond with the questions that you have about the signs and the driveways and the drive-throughs. I think those are appropriate questions. It's just that the professionals who can provide you that information are not with us tonight. So, if you were not
inclined to vote to approve simply on this first reading, we would ask for a continuence to the next meeting at least so that if in your consideration of this, you could have the set of information that you need to make an appropriate decision. Okay. I I'll seek clarification from the town attorney on
continuation after this presentation. >> It's just the same thing, >> Jeff. >> Yes. >> I'm sorry. the the if you if you wanted to um you have the ability to continue
this matter if you uh want to and you can continue it on first reading. Okay, thank you for that clarification. Do I have a motion? >> Oh, do Okay, this is M. I would like to propose a motion to continue the matter
until the next uh council meeting. >> So that would be uh se September 8th, I believe, um at 6 p.m. >> Is that >> okay? I I just want to make sure that date works with them or we can move to
the next one after that. But um so I would I'm open to that idea. So yes, if that date is okay, I I am I would like to propose that motion. Thank you, >> Vice Mayor Sud. I think they're aware of the next meeting date because we've
we've mentioned it several times tonight. But thank you. >> Yep. >> I I have I have a motion by Vice Mayor Sud to continue to the September 8th at 6 PM and a second by Council Member Coleman. All those in favor?
>> Oh, I I was actually >> Hold on. >> I thought we have discussion. That's why I went ahead and second it. Um seeing as September is >> our budget hearing >> is a budget hearing and a big meeting um would it be amanable to push it to even
the September >> work >> workshop >> slashsec hearing? >> Yeah we do it 6 to 6:30 I think we could just this no other addition >> we we also have just pushed the um the resolutions prior to this to September
8th. >> That's what I'm saying it's going to pack it up. >> Okay. I agree with that. Let's move to the next one after that, >> which is September 23rd. >> Yes. So, I would like to revise. >> Hold on. Hold on. They're leaping to the podium. Hold on. >> Only to tell you that we that that date
works as well. Just so it's clear. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Doing like a a baseball call here. >> Yeah. I think >> would that be Excuse me. Would that be September 23rd at 5:30? So, it's before the workshop or or >> It's not a workshop. It's a budget
hearing. >> A budget hearing. Yeah, I know. But would that be September 23rd at 5:30 to leave us the time for the budget hearing is what I'm saying. >> Or would it be at six o'clock? >> I I would imagine it would stay at 6. It'll it'll still be at a meeting, but
good note. >> That's what I was going to say. So, Manisha, if you wouldn't mind amending your motion to September 23. Yeah, I would like to amend my motion to um continue continuation for this until the next council until the council meeting
on September the 23rd. >> All right, >> that's it. I I second that amendment. Thank you. >> Okay, thank you. I have a motion by Vice Mayor Sud to continue uh agenda item well, ordinance 202603 to the September 23rd meeting at 6 p.m. and a second by
council member Coleman. All those in favor? >> I >> I >> I >> opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes 5-0. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> All right, that was a marathon. All
right, that brings us to agenda item five, uh, which is, um, a resolution 202665. And could I get that read for the record, please? >> Yes, madame mayor. Res proposed resolution 2026-65 a resolution of the town council of the
town of Loxachi girls Florida approving a continuing contract with CRI Advisors LLC for accounting and financial services authorizing the mayor to execute necessary documents and forms accept acceptable to the town manager
and town attorney to implement the intent of this resolution authorizing the town manager and a town attorney to take such action as are necessary to imple implement this resolution and providing for an effective date.
>> Thank you. >> So, uh I have a resolution 20265. Uh can I get a motion on this and make a motion to approve 202665? >> I've got a motion. >> It's already been seconded, but thank you. Okay.
>> So, the joys of coming in via Zoom. So, uh I have a motion to approve resolution 202665 by Council Member Coleman, seconded by Council Member Stevens, and a and a second by Council Member Kane via Zoom. Uh so, I will open the floor to Joe's
talking. >> God, this is true. >> I apologize. I don't know what I'm doing up here. >> He's emboldened by being present. So, uh I open the floor to discussion. I I think the town I'm sorry. I think the town manager was going to um inform
you that the funding uh for this uh proposed contract would be coming from the contingency fund, the $173,000 line item. >> Okay.
for the current year for the next, you know, until September 30th. Obviously, beyond beyond that, it would be uh part of your budget discussions in the upcoming month. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh count Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> I had a question.
>> Hold on. Hold on. Uh the man speak on something. >> No, I just wanted to state that Ivonne is here um sitting in the audience if you guys have questions for her. >> Thank you. Go ahead, Council Member Kaine. Yeah, I um I spoke to Ivonne on the phone and I think they're going to
be great and I think we definitely needed a change in our accounting firm. So, I'm thrilled about this. Um I had a question I had asked at our um agenda review meeting and I just want to make
it clear for everyone. So we this model uh also requires an additional hire and when I asked the interim town manager about the cost of it of the additional permanent hire of a financial person
inside of town she said $65,000. Um when I spoke to Ivonne she said that that was part of the model and somebody had been identified at that salary. But I just want to be clear because we're budgeting for this moving forward. $65,000
can't possibly be the the whole amount for this person. I I think we need to know real numbers as we move into the budgeting process because I I'm certain that the $65,000 that was quoted doesn't include any benefits um or anything like that. So I I would
like at certainly before we start budgeting to have the real numbers of what the additional hire is going to cost us. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So there is a salary range. Um there is that is the base salary for the
uh position is 65,000. Um but as I stated at our agenda review meeting, this is a already budgeted position. um it just was not filled in this capacity. Um so it is included in the budget and naturally uh will be part of the
conversation for next year. Thank you. >> Right. It was budget it was budgeted but not spent but I definitely want to make sure that we know what the real number is moving forward. >> Yeah. Yes. Thank you. It should be pointed out that we used to have an in-house finance person as well, but we
just have not had one for a little over a year. Correct. uh they had multiple responsibilities including uh some financial uh responsibilities. Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. Good point. Uh Vice Mayor Sud is is anything you want to add?
>> Yes. Uh okay. So I think uh I want to highlight some of the facts as we make this important financial decision. Uh, our town had a 2024 audit failure um
cited by OIG of Palm Beach County Office and on top of it, we did not meet the corrective actions cited by them. Uh, secondly, our town audit for this year,
financial year 2026, as I understand is already running late. And finally, uh it appears that some of the initial uh invoices or some billing to FEMA was inaccurate.
And for the last two plus years as fact member and now recently as council member, I have been asking for some transparency on how our tax dollars are spent such as fund flow statements,
opening and closing cash balances, which I still haven't seen. And I think it's unfair to blame all this issue entirely on Mr. Delina or whoever the existing vendor is because I do agree that this is a systematic failure and uh I I do
agree that we need a major review and reorg of our financial accounting and audit uh processes. I also believe that our residents demand transparency and accurate information on their tax dollar not just beautiful
looking dashboards or complicated uh dump of the data. So now this is the context I would like to speak with the new uh proposed uh accountant at car rigs and Ingram if she can come to
podium and un and up and I think she doesn't know the depth of these matters but I just want her to understand that uh we would like the new vendor or whoever that partner is with multifunctional expertise
and municipal experience that is directly relevant to these immediate issues that are in front of us. So if she has any concerns, this is a job that requires hands-on involvement by the senior CPA, not some junior level
people at least for the first few months or more. So I would like some comments from the accountant at car rigs and Ingram to uh acknowledge uh the depth of the expertise that is needed and um I I
understand there is a separate price tag to help with the audit and that's good because we can hold them accountable. Previous vendor had that in their price point but we paid somebody else extra money to do that job. So, it would be helpful for me to hear some comments
from them when the time allows. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, she has stepped up to the podium. Hopefully, the microphone is still on so she'll speak to this. >> Okay. Hi. Thank you for having me. Ivon Claybornne. I'm a partner with CRI
Advisors LLC. I'm joining you tonight. Thank you, to explain some of our context of our our contract. So um I myself personally have 35 plus years experience working with um state and local governments um previously as an
auditor and have moved into the client accounting service arena um about four or five years ago. Um but I put myself through college as a bookkeeper and so accounting has always been near and dear to my heart in the finance division. So,
our experience, um, this is actually the second, um, municipality in Palm Beach County that we would be coming into on the heels of an OIG audit that had comments that were not addressed, um, by the previous, um, finance, um,
personnel. So, um, we have experience specifically with the Palm Beach County OIG. Um most of the municipalities that we have um accepted as clients in the recent years came to us because they had
issues and that because they had messes that needed to be cleaned up or items that needed to be addressed. Um in all of those cases um the areas related to cleanup are addressed by myself and my senior managers. I have
two, a manager and a senior manager with uh government experience that work side by side with me on the cleanup and the um addressing of policy and procedures, review and evaluation and implementation
of modifications as necessary. I have a team of so I said that would be seven other people that work on the day-to-day operations with us as the team. We have a quality control process where if it's
performed the task is performed by a senior, it gets reviewed by a manager or a partner. So no deliverable goes out to a client um unreed. If a senior is working on a task um that doesn't have an actual deliverable, there is still a senior or a partner
that's overseeing and responsible for that person. The reason we have our exhibits broken out the way we do is we have the exhibit A that addresses the regular routine finance tasks that you're used to seeing
in your um previous contract. Um, but as mentioned, we broke out things like participating in the budgeting process and participating in um the year-end audit process and we provided those as separate fee quotes because those are
not part of your routine um accounting services and we recognize those as needing a heavier lift and and you know we provide that information in there. We provide a fee that allows us to do the job the way it's intended to be done.
We're not going to try to um short change what your needs are because we didn't provide the the right vehicle. Um we also have a second exhibit and a second contract that's related to providing for the assistance um for 2006
and it gives a not to exceed amount um for fiscal year 2026. We don't know um right now what the current status is and what the the level of um getting caught up is going to be need to be there. But again, that's going to be my
responsibility with my manager um Jay Parish that will be working with me on that. And then we also have the secondary consulting engagement that's built around um review and evaluation of existing policies and procedures. um
modification of those policies and procedures as needed to um bring those into compliance with your current needs as well as training um town personnel in those new policies and procedures to ensure that the OIG um issues are
addressed and you are in compliance going forward. Did I address your question, Vice Mayor? >> Yes, I did. Thank you. >> Thank you, Ivonne. Uh >> I I also think it's important to note something that came out in my conversation with you, which is that Jay
is um very experienced with Blackbod, which there was a learning curve with our last firm of getting up to speed. And I think it's important to note that that you're already up to speed with that program. Yes. Thank you. Uh I have a question more for staff, but but thank you Ivonne
for for taking the time to be here tonight. uh what is the status of uh projected points uh exit as far as will there be a transition period? What's anticipated there? So per their contract
um we could terminate without cause and provide them a 60 days written notice um which would allow for the transition period um especially that we are in the midst of the budget, we're finalizing the audit. Um so during that period everything would um you know transfer
over to CRI um but they will um kind of spearhead the budget. >> Okay. And Ivon, do you anticipate needing a 60-day transition period? >> I don't think we'll need 60 days to get into the dayto-day. As I mentioned to Valerie, I think within 30 days we could
have the daytoday the consulting piece which is the 2026 cleanup and the budgeting process. Well, the budgeting has to happen within the next, you know, by September 30. Obviously, we have to be ready by September 8th. So, that's a 30-day turnaround. Um, that's just going to be all hands on deck with my team to
make sure we meet that deadline. Um, the 2026 cleanup is probably going to push, as I mentioned to Valerie, probably into se October. Um, you know, just depending on what it takes to clean up the books and get them closed for September. >> But do you anticipate a need of 60 days
working with Projected Point? I I would like council to consider uh directing the manager to see if she could negotiate a 30-day termination with them instead of 60. >> We just need a consensus for that. >> Yes. Um
>> I concur. >> I I've got concurrence here from Council Member Coleman and Stevens. Uh Council Member Kaine and Vice Mayor Sud. Yeah, I think I think 30 days is good in good faith and uh they should immediately report back. If uh the vendor does not
agree, Mr. Delina has issues, then we will decide. But yes, in good faith, 30 days is good. I'm >> council member Kane. >> Well, I I I mean, if it can be done in 30 days without with with a reasonable
transition, I guess that would be fine. >> Okay. So, uh, council would like to direct, uh, acting town manager Oaks to to reach out to, uh, projected point and see if they could, uh, negotiate a 30-day termination on that. >> Okay.
>> Thank you. Uh, then I also, Jeff, this is more a question for you on on the existing contract. This is a bit of an aside since it was provided in our agenda. Um, is there an explanation why
literally on May 6 the council approved in 2025 the contract with projected point and while a month earlier it only took 16 days to to execute a contract, this one took 8 months. So that's dated
January 26th of 2026. And I'm I'm curious as to why that was delayed, why Torivia Law wasn't the one that handled that contract since they were the attorneys for 90 days or give or take following that that May 6th
meeting. So is there a reason that that got delayed so long? >> I don't have I apologize. I don't have a specific recollection um of what happened with that. I think it had to do with execution of the
um of the contract. Um I know that it was uh a contract that I signed um you know in in January since I was the the town attorney. Um uh but uh um it should
have been it was prepared and everything was ready to to go back in that May time period. Um so uh Val, I don't I don't know whether the the hang up on the signature was from
Projected Point or was it from um you know your offices. I don't I don't recall. Thank you. Council member Kaine, do you remember when you signed this contract? >> I'm sorry. I don't have a recollection of when I signed it.
>> Okay. Thank you. Uh so, uh any >> I'm sure that I dated it when I signed it, but >> No, there's no date on it. >> So, unfortunately, but um the the notary seal is January 26 of 26 uh for Mr. Delina's signature. So,
any other comments for the for the folks? Any public comments on this item? >> Yes, Madame Mayor. We have one card, Tracy Rafitz. Good evening, Tracy Rafitz. Um, I actually reviewed uh their contract and I actually like it much
better than projected point as a fact member especially. Um, why? Better emphasis on internal controls which are lacking. Uh, better blackbod training which we really need, better transition planning, better financial policies,
better separation of duties. However, I do have questions. The 9250 a month is not the total cost. I don't know if people really realize that. Um, there's additional fees for budget, trim, audit, policies, account cleanup. My question,
what is the estimated total first year cost that it would possibly happen, especially with a transition? Um, I mean, we're still waiting for financials from this whole year, so I welcome anybody else that can help. Um
then something else Anita said um last year was budgeted for a financial person that was not filled. So if it wasn't on last year's budget, we put on this year's budget. If anything can hap if anything financially can happen and anything that can help another company
come in and have a good transition, you we all should welcome it, especially as a town because right now our financials are bad and there our budget. I mean, we don't even have a budget yet and we're we're in August. So, hopefully this happens and we as a town welcome them in
and we get more results. Thanks. >> Thank you, chair of the fact. So, and and just so you know, internally we do uh hopefully if um we can get out of this skeleton crew that we're running on right now um advertise the senior
financial analyst position uh this week is my goal. So that way we can uh obviously work in tandem with the new contractors. >> Great. Thank you. You're welcome. >> I think the total on the total annual on the um regular services the the uh
exhibit A um is $138,000. The 9250 is $111. And I think there's another $27,000 in charges. Um, and I think the um other immediate projects, if you will, um, that'll uh, be ongoing
in the beginning here, I think that's $47,000, but I would defer to, uh, Yavon and, um, uh, acting town manager Oaks to uh, confirm those numbers. >> Yes, Ivon, you've stepped back up to the
podium and she's madly using her calculator on her phone. I'm not I'm actually trying to access the letters on my phone because I didn't bring printed copies. Um but the again um as the attorney said that the the base
agreement is the 9250 per month um with an agreement verbal agreement with the town to revisit that once the internal person is in place and as we evaluate um whether that person is capable of taking on additional tasks and we can revisit
that. the incremental costs related to the budgeting process and to the audit process. Those are not to exceed amounts based on our experience with other municipalities of what that lift is at the end of each fiscal year or at at
each fiscal year. The additional letter related to the consulting, those are not to exceed amounts. Those are considered be anticipated to be one-time things um to bring you back to where you need to be so that you can move forward with
good valuable financial information. >> Yes. And I think it should be noted too that uh in 2025 we had duplication um with the outgoing financial services and the incoming and then this year we also had a consultant come in um working
with the preparation for the the audit. So that this is a a fairly common expenditure for us. And council member, >> my understanding the incremental cost between my quote for the annual services, which would include the budgeting and the annual audit process
versus what you had to spend this year with your current finance contract plus the additional contract you had to pay for audit assistance is about would you say $11,000? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> $11,000 more. >> Yes. More. Correct. Right. Okay.
>> And again emphasizing two things again. The the policies and procedures consulting and the fiscal year 2026 accounting cleanup. Those are two separate projects that are one time. And that is to again we are looking to you know correct the foundation and build up
uh and again in my conversations with Ivonne our goal is to build up that internal staff person so that way you know they have a real understanding of our town's finances. You know they have involvement with ARFAC. You know we have
a really nice detailed plan um for the next budget cycle. Um, but again, we have to get all of these parties in place to to make that plan effective. >> Thank you, Council Member Coleman. >> Well, I think you kind of hit what I was going to ask. So, so the the idea is, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that
9250 a month actually could come down as time progresses if that new person that gets in place is fitting in properly and and >> coming around to where we need them to be. Right. we uh when I had this discussion with Ivonne uh in terms of what my my goals were um with regards to
our finance department, it really is to you know really stabilize our finances um and the person in that position is critical to that and again build them up and then eventually hopefully drop down the scope of services and ultimately that monthly amount. So, uh, Ivonne
knows what what the plan is and completely understands that she may do so good that she may work herself out of a job and just be in a consulting capacity. >> I feel confident that you'll always that you'll find value in our consulting services if I train myself out of the
client accounting services part. Not the first time I've done it and I'm happy to do it. >> Yes. And and it works well with our succession planning. So, and giving people opportunity within the organization to to come forward. So, thank you. Um, I have a motion uh to approve. All those in favor?
>> I >> I >> I >> I >> opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes. 5-0. Thank you for your time, Avon. Thank you, Valerie, for putting this together. >> All right, that brings us to item number six, which
I believe uh Jeff, you're uh that lead on this. I'm getting to it on the as I scroll down the agenda. So bear with me. >> And we have representatives here from Coastal as well in the room. Braving the
COVID scare. Uh >> oh, she's coughing. Escort. Sir, could you escort her out, please? Yeah, this is um uh the discussion on um or an update on uh the coastal uh
negotiations. We have met with um Coastal. Uh the the um pricing for the um on a per unit basis is $22.68
per month per unit. Um you know, and uh there is going to be no uh increase as of October 1st. Those were questions at the um at the last meeting um because of
the way the example that they had in their um and this was the S SWAS's contract um the example that they had put forth um
in there suggested that there might be a increase as of um October 1st of this year. Um the major issue um with respect to moving forward as we indicated is
that presently what the town has is a um practice that if you have um a second can at a location um that uh we charge um an
extra unit fee um as I've indicated uh to you um the current ordinance and resolution don't seem to
um justify that that practice although it has been ongoing for uh a long time. Um and the first question is whether or not you want to continue that practice. Um and then we would uh and if the
answer is yes, we discuss that with um coastal and the solution would be to uh amend our unit uh definition um so that it takes that situation into
um into consideration that you can have more than one um can and be charged an extra fee. Um, so this is just an update on that. We anticipate being able to bring you back the the contract once you give us that
direction. Um, so question before you I think is whether or not you want to continue uh that practice of um having
multiple units at one property. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, one one question for me on on this uh provided memo, Jeff, on on the second paragraph, you mentioned the vegetation waste at 12 cubic yards, but only one pickup per
week. I I thought we only got one vegetation pickup per week anyway. So, I'm not sure how that's different. >> Um, I think it is I think it is one pickup per week. And I think it has been. You
mean the the phraseology of but only is that what you're questioning? >> Yes. I I don't I was just questioning whether that was a change and I I didn't think it was a change. >> Um I don't I don't think that it is
>> the changes in the the cubic yards. >> The changes in the amount the the cubic yards presently under the current circumstances it's six cubic yards. >> This is double. So, yes. >> Um, uh, comments, questions, council members?
>> I have a question. >> During the agenda review, I brought up the possibility of just that everybody can just have one unit under our contract and that if people need more than one can, they would
contract independently with Coastal for anything over the one can that they needed. Um Jeff, you were gonna look into whether that was a possibility. Did you do that? >> Um due to the circumstances that we find ourselves in, no, I haven't had the
opportunity to to do that. Um but we would, you know, uh if that's the direction the council wants us to go in, we can we can do that. >> Okay. Anything else, Council Member Kaine?
>> No, that's it. Thank you. I I I think I agree with uh council member Kaine. We need to explore that option. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh anybody else up here on the deis? Council member Coleman. >> I have no I have no other
>> I I do have concern. Should we go with the additional cans? Um because historically the additional can gave you the additional vegetation as well and we're already doubling it with the one can. I would say that it should Coastal be so kind as to accommodate additional
cans that they do not include vegetation waste and and perhaps a price would be arrived at. So >> yes, piggybacking on council member Kaine. So Mr. Cassagande is is here at the microphone. So please let us know your thoughts. >> Good evening, mayor, council members,
staff. The piggyback bas is has to be almost an apples to apples because you see the price difference. Some of the things I think you need to understand as as uh the c as council and staff is what
changes. So yes, you do get one pickup, but we have negotiated over time uh a second pickup. We on Wednesdays and Fridays we send the clamshells again through the town picking up additional debris. So that would go away. So there
you are getting two pickups a week. It goes to one again. But like you were saying, Mayor, it goes from 6 to 12. So but those are things that change. Um some of the other things that change is that we now service your uh town properties for free as part of the
contract. that that would be there would be a charge there. Um the uh commercial resident the commercial uh businesses would see a reduction in price as well. So that I know the residents are at the key but also your commercial will see a reduction. Your franchise fee revenue
would have to be discussed. Uh so you have to be comfortable with uh that as a as a true piggyback and that's uh your uh council's uh determination on how that that's you know that takes place. But there are some changes that has to be and we have to try to keep this
because of the uh almost half the price. There's going to be you know we have we coastal are going to have to pretty much stick to what the solid waste authority contract says because it could get I mean you know uh additional pickups and things like that are just not built into
that price. >> Sure. Sure. >> As far as the carts um the solid waste authority allows up to three >> three carts. So, a home a single family home, no no lots could could get up to three carts if they need be. Anything over three, and there are people out
here with four, five, and six, that goes away. So, but you do uh get or you are allowed up to three carts uh per single family resident uh for that $22 and and change. >> Okay. >> So, those are some of the things I want to >> But the vegetation doesn't change.
>> The vegetation doesn't change. It's 12 yards once a week, but the second pickup a week does go away. Okay. And it it might be noted and and Mr. Curts could speak to this uh that a lot of that franchise money was subsidizing what we were charging residents versus what some
of the costs were with your previous contract. And I do think in general you've done a great job in the town and we were delighted to see that solid waste was was bringing you on. So that worked out well. >> Thank you. Uh one question would be um we have gotten the um is it when you
when you get it for the hurricane prep preparedness you get the amnesty days would that be included? No. >> No. Okay. Thanks for that clarification. U Mr. Stevens I think you were on Okay. Sorry. Council member Coleman you were first. >> So just just to clarify so you said we
as a town were getting two pickups. So, cuz but if I was very ambitious and went out and put six yards out on Saturday and it got picked up on Tuesday and then I went out and put it before, you know, the next
what? Wednesday. I went out and put out more. You would have picked me up twice. >> Well, there were uh I believe we they were called community. >> Yeah, those Yeah, those were >> Okay. That's where you would go and put your pile on and pick up community. was a list that community pile
>> I believe uh we are now up to 60 community piles I mean so it started out as 20some and it continued to grow we just kept picking it up and and and allowed the service so there are about 60 community piles uh that was my call I can give you the list of
>> I was just but that's that's kind of what hap to your point where if your day is Tuesday you put your six yards out but do you know where community pile was and then you put your second six at that community pile and us to maintain a level of service. We We just did it,
>> right? So, and and to get So, we're allowed up to three on the new contract with >> the piggyback. We're allowed up to three cans per household. >> Yes. >> And we have to contact you or we we contact the town if that goes forward. >> Contact us. >> Okay. Awesome. the the it's just a
piggyback for I believe it or not that is a a legal term but it and but the the relationship the customer service the phone calls everything else still is maintained between the town and coastal. >> Excellent. Thank you. >> Council member Stevens,
>> you may or may not know this. Do you know where most of the second pickups occur? Is it residential? Is it is it some of the landscape places? Just curious. >> I >> can you find out? I can give you the addresses where they are. >> Well, I don't want to spy on people that much, but I'm curious. I just I just
know there's a lot of a lot of dumping going on from landscape people that are bringing it in from outside of our >> For seven years, it's been the commercial establishments have been a cat and mouse game. Oh yeah. >> And uh you know, your residents have, you know, have voiced their opinions
about wanting to keep the clean, keep it clean, keep the swailes clean, keep it out of the keep it out of the canals. We just picked it up. and to say where they are. Like I said, we have an addresses where they were and we just do it. >> No, and don't get me wrong, I'm extremely grateful for you guys and I just uh thank you for everything you've
been doing for our community. So, >> thank you. >> Just curious. >> Thanks. >> So, Lisa, I I still didn't really hear an answer to a question. I heard that each residence is allowed up to three, but I didn't hear an answer to the question of can we make a policy where
everybody gets one and they have to contract with Coastal directly for anything over one. >> I think in an answer to that, Mr. Castle Grande explained that the uh contract itself with solid waste allows up to
three cans per unit. >> Correct. and they would just arrange for those cans to be delivered directly with Coastal. So it there would be no additional cost for those three cans. It would not change the vegetation volume.
>> So you would pay one price whether you have one can you would pay the 20 we would pay the 2250 for a residence >> whether it has one trash can or three trash cans. >> That is what I understand and it's a maximum of three. So some of our units that are currently I think he said some
have up to six. Um so uh those people would have to adapt. So >> yeah, and and to um uh council member Kane's um earlier uh comment, the the question would be um
for those folks who couldn't fit within the the three um could they um seek the uh commercial um rate? and I had indicated that I didn't think that would be a problem, but I haven't had an
opportunity to talk uh to um Mr. Cas Grande about that. Um and so what I understand the direction is um that we will um move forward with the idea that somebody could have up to three
cans um in in a single unit. and we would adjust our uh role uh accordingly. Um so for those uh properties that are currently
um paying uh for you know three or four units that would go back down to a single unit um but they would be limited to the three can maximum. So that that would be the adjustment that we make on
our roll. um uh when we we uh move forward uh with the adoption of the um the solid waste assessment. >> All right. Uh any additional questions? Oh, Mr. P. >> One more thing. Uh every single uh
resident or you know um homeowner or unit is is allowed three. So by now I'm guessing everybody is pretty much reached their water level. How many they need? Obviously there's going to be an issue with with everyone who is over the three. But if someone who has one right now and wants two more, there is a
onetime uh fee in the Solid Waste Authority contract of $85 and that's that they pay for the cart and that there's no additional monthly charge. It's still the 22 $22 a month. >> Thank you for that to make sure before anybody says, "Well, you said I can get three." >> Right. I do recall that that's that's
the $85 for the per can, right? Or right, >> not for the two cans. >> Correct. Per container up to three. And it's a onetime fee. But of the $85, but it's still all three will be serviced for the $22 uh a month. >> Is it assessed or you bill it?
>> Is it assessed? >> What what happens is they charge us and we assess the properties >> that Thank you, Jeff. >> And would we still have our lovely Lockxahhatche Groves cans? >> Yes, you will. >> Oh, look at that. We get to keep those.
>> Don't give me a cans. You mean my one that has the the logo on it got smashed in the machine? >> Speak to the man. >> I was trying to be nice. >> Well, I have a question. >> Hello. >> Yes, Vice Mayor Sud.
>> Hello. Um, could you talk a little bit about recyclables now with Amazon boxes and lot of people being aware to uh separate recyclable recyclables? Are you providing bigger buckets for cardboard
and plastic and so forth? >> Uh, no. Those the recycling buckets are provided by the Solid Waste Authority of Palm Beach County. >> Okay. So, that is not changing. Or do we have more options to add more buckets?
>> That's not changing. >> Okay. >> It's it's through the solid waste authority, not through the coastal waste uh provider. The recycling we service it has always been through the uh solid waste authority of Palm Beach. They've supplied the buckets and the recycling
uh material uh is delivered to their facility. >> I I see. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> All right. Um we don't need any further action by council on this, right? This is just a discussion item. >> Okay. And do we have anything? >> Yeah, discussion and direction. I think we've gotten the direction we need.
>> Thank you, >> Madame Mayor. We have two comment cards on this item. The first person is Tracy Rafflewoods. >> Tracy Rafflowitz Fro. I would like to ask about the solid waste assessment. We've been charged approximately $900
each year through our property taxes for residential garbage service. Yet, we have never received residential garbage or recycling cans because our property uses a commercial dumpster. This is not a new issue. We first brought it to the town's attention years ago and again last November and my
attorney has also contacted Coastal Waste in an effort to resolve it. We have asked for the town attorney for clarification as well. Despite all of these efforts, we still do not have an answer. My question is actually simple. Why are property owners being charged for a residential service that they
don't receive? If the assessment is correct, please explain the legal basis for it. If it's not correct, who is responsible for correcting it? More importantly, who should we be contacting to obtain a refund for the years we've been charged for a service we've never
received? The town continues to place this assessment on our tax bill every year. Yet, no one seems to be willing to take ownership of the issue or provide a straightforward answer. I believe the residents deserve an answer, and I would appreciate knowing who is responsible
for resolving this matter. I'd also like to I would like to also raise and be known that I specifically asked the town attorney when he was on our property recently and saw that there was not a dumpster that serviced by Coastal and no one in the town had any
form. So, if you have a form, please send it to us. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Madame Mayor. The final card we have is Virginia Standish. Virginia Standish Lux Gross. First, I'd like to compliment the coastal employees
and staff that are out on the street every day and responding to these calls. I see some of these piles, the mixing of vegetation and bulk mixed in, the abuse of the garbage that they should not be picking up because it exceeds the contract. We realize it's on camera, so
I have to applaud your employees for going above and beyond. Let me just say that. I I know there's people out here who like to complain because they're breaking the rules and oh these guys aren't picking up the trash that they're not supposed to, you know, they're pick, you know. So big big thank you. Um in
this discussion I'm looking for clarification because I'm hearing the second pickup is going to be cancelled. Are we referring to our trash second trash pickup? Because just say we say the second pickup. I didn't know we had
two vegetative pickups in this town. That's news to me. Just say I understand that. Um and I've always been to told you have to call in for bulk because if you put it out there, they don't recognize since you're here, I'm just getting it all out, getting all the laundry out. Um so the public, the
community needs to be informed. If a postcard could go out with the changes, I think it's fabulous. So what I'm hearing, I just want to clarify. We can have up to three trash cans for regular trash that will be picked up twice a week and our vegetation will increase to
12 cubic yards but only picked up once a week. Thank you. >> With an additional charge for each can above one of $85 one time. >> Yes, that part I got. It was stuff before that I did not. Uh, >> and when the contract, don't call Coastal tomorrow. Ask for two cans.
>> Yeah, this is not the contract yet. >> So, um, I I thank you for being here and hopefully you'll address these people. I I actually know of several people that are being overcharged or charged. >> Well, that the assessments have been a conversation going on for a very very
long time and and that's kind of like, you know, I don't know how that we can resolve that except if you all have have that issue. But back to the notification. Once we have an agreement, we will prepare a postcard like we did when we first
started the contract of the changes, list them, have you all approve it, and then we mail it out to everybody. >> Great. Thank you. Thank you for being here and um thank you, Jeff, for >> they sat through a lot tonight >> for that. >> Yes. >> Panda no express because we weren't very
express. So that brings us to item number seven. Uh again, further discussion on the RV program that came for one um ordinance reading and um then it sort of
got kicked around. So we're back here tonight. We discussed this at the workshop and at the workshop I I think we've discussed everybody come tonight prepared with the changes that they wanted to see on this this ordinance as
it's proposed. So hopefully everybody came with their notes in hand. Um so um uh Karen Gardner Young, uh standard a community standards director, do you have um something to add?
>> Um the only thing um I wanted to follow up with and I know this was at the last meeting there was a request for staff to bring forward the number of RVs potentially that could be permitted within the town's jurisdiction. Um, we haven't ignored it. I just want to let
everybody know we were just able to get the tax roles yesterday because we wanted to have a good base of where we came up from our number. So, we haven't forgotten it. I hope to have it to you before second reading, but wanted to make sure I at least let you know we were not ignoring you and we will address it as quickly as we can.
>> Thank you. I appreciate that. Uh, but I see that the the actual proposed one is not attached. It's the old one. So, I I brought my old copy. Um, but I don't know. Um, is anybody else prepared to discuss the changes?
>> No, I thought we were pretty pretty close myself. But, >> uh, yeah, I I I was I was happy with the new it newer iteration because it reduced the number of RVs in the town. But I did want some idea of what that potential number was.
>> Okay. >> Right. I thought we had it through our discussions. I thought the newest iteration like she was saying we wanted those to those those total numbers but I thought it was more not solely pun punctuational was more editing than >> correct it is. >> Yeah.
>> Yes. So um like specified in a Lisa >> I was just going to say I think the the latest edition is on pages 170 to 173. I think that's the the meat of the
ordinance there. >> Oh, thank you. >> All right. >> Exhibit A. >> So, this is just exhibit A. Okay. >> Yeah, because we're the idea was we would >> um repeal the old and put in a new. So,
it's it's listed as exhibit A, but it's actually >> it stands alone. And then >> so you know I think um some of the questions were like a location as specified in a lease are is the town going to have copies of the lease? I
mean some of this stuff is is just again a little too much oversight demanding staff time. Uh the reduction of staff time was one of the the drivers for making some of these changes. So uh I think the discussion from the workshop
which didn't end up in the final version was some of the conversation about limiting the the application um not having uh a site inspection unless it was for a
basically a vacant a property where they're using it for um the the caretaker quarters. Um, so trying to scale back staff time and staff involvement in these things and and um
scaling back the filing fee to to basically um encourage compliance with this. So, to me, the language that's in here that needs to be scaled back um was things like the the lease just it it's
small language, but we know that this language matters when it comes to legal documents and and that's where people in the future that don't know the history are going to look at that and go but that this says that this is what we have to do. So, that that needs I think
scaling. I I think we also need to um we haven't talked about whether we're going to set um a time frame for rentals to a particular seasonal uh thing. I know uh Council Member Kane, you had had brought something up about that. Um
>> well I think yeah and it speaks to exactly what you're talking about Lisa which is um we can try to do that but that then increases the staff time and the staff I mean you know that that really increases the
burden on staff to go around and inspect them all make sure they're not being leased out when they shouldn't be and not being able to get on people's properties and all of that kind of stuff. So, I mean, we can put it in there, but can we really enforce it? I I I don't know. I don't think we can.
>> I I don't think it requires a you know, annual inspection before and after what or after to make sure that they're gone. I think it's the the the ver the the language is in there. So if you know somebody calls code enforcement
and sites that their neighbors still renting out three RVs in, you know, July that we have some kind of recourse. >> Yeah, it it kind of goes back to complaint driven, right? And and kind of encouraging.
>> Yes, it would have to be complaint driven. And then we have the exception that we have in there for uh you know the handicapped and all of that that that we we had that exception. I I I don't know. It just seems like an
enforcement nightmare to me. And and you know, even after the reports from staff of how much time and effort was put into even just doing the inspections, it it it seems very labor intensive to staff and um not really doable because you've got
all, you know, you've got the ones that you see and the ones that are complaint driven and then you've got the ones that are, you know, hidden back on the back of somebody's property or behind a fence or on a back five that nobody knows about. Well, I mean, if it's complaint driven, then it's not we're not sending code portion out running the roads, you
know, twice a year or even once a year, you know, generating NOVs, which is what happened what, spring of last year. Um, you know, there and they were citing people that were in compliance. They had filled out their application stuff. I think if it's complaint driven, you
know, we kind of give that guideline because I mean we're I think you still have to have some verbiage in there to say or else you're just going to get people doing it year round and it's not personal use stuff. We're talking rental. So, >> right. >> Okay. Can I jump in, please?
>> Yes, please. >> Okay. Ready? Okay. I first of all I mentioned in my prior comments my north star is not about staff time and staff convenience or any of that nature. My north star star is safety of our
families and protective protecting our property values and protecting the rural nature of our town. I don't want us to be the parking lot for Wellington or anyone else. So let me share my thoughts. Do you know how many RVs will
be allowed under your existing uh proposal? You don't have the numbers, but I'll tell you it's in hundreds. By having everyone have a rental RV, everyone, no matter the size of property, no matter act classification
or not, in my opinion, will destroy our hardened property values, create unnecessary safety risk for our children and families and harm our law-abiding residents who have been following the existing RV regulations. We will become
I would believe a a parking lot RV parking lot inviting all type of transient people from all over the county and more. We haven't even fixed our existing illegal RV parks. We just acknowledged that we know where those
folks are and by adding more RVs we are adding more fuel to the fire. The argument that oh this policy is better than the previous policy is irrelevant. What's meaningful is what is good for the future of this town. I don't care
about the incremental improvement from the past policy etc. I have no issues with personal unoccupied RVs. Someone can have a guest is here visiting you. Family is temporarily having an RV park next to you. No problem.
Only issue is for rent generating or income generating RVs. Now of course I want some limits on you know not to abuse that personal thing but we will talk about that in a second. So I would say for the RVs that are generating
income or rent uh here is my thought process. uh we will follow uh that if there there has to be a dwelling on the property
there has to be uh allowed for only a certain size I would propose 5 acres or more only during the 179 day equestrian season and for equestrian reasons only no Airbnb sort of business because we
can't restrict Airbnb we can't say oh no Airbnb what what we can say is this income generation is only for equestrian and related a related purposes only owned or leased by the owner or the occupant. I have seen suspicious
characters telling you that they will place an RV on your property and they will promise you a get-rich quick scheme by paying by placing cash paying tenant. So RV has to be owned or leased by the owner or the occupant. There is no third
party placing RV business. No more residents living in an RV than allowed in the RV specification. But no, not more than four or maybe five. In any case, we don't want tons of people packed in a big RV. Now, for the
yearound use, only bonafideed a 5 acres and more annual renewals and ID must be provided. Now, I will say this, this is a law. This is not my opinion. If a a a RV or any temporary structure is a fixed
is a long-term structure which I believe is more than 17 179 days then all FEMA state county rules apply. Actually this regulation was there in the prior policy and somehow it has disappeared. We as a
town has an obligation. Anybody who wants full-time all year round RV and they are ready to do FEMA thing meaning put a concrete post and put belts and suspenders and all that kind of stuff. Sure. But that will as a town we will
report such long-term properties to the Palm Beach Tax Appraisal Office. Actually, I believe it's not even required. they will come and find you because what Palm Beach County and our town would want is not to have these
families living in RVs who don't pay their fair share of tax whereas their neighbor next door who built a structure the roof and everything that they can see from the satellite paying all kind of tax dollar and supporting somebody who's not paying such taxes. So, I have
absolutely no issues with somebody wants to live in an RV all year around, but we better um understand the county requirements and report or they will probably find such properties at the Palm Beach Tax Appraisal Office. And finally, enforcement. None of this will
work if our enforcement is not empowered. Uh I am I understand these observation based complaints of illeg illegal RV parks but we all understand those RV parks exist and nothing has been done. So I would request that we
for the RV purposes we add observation based complaint also. In other words on any given day we have 10 to 12 of our town staff on the road. They are mowing the grass. They are doing something on the roads. They are looking at something. They're going around in their
vehicles. They exactly know or see where those illegal RV parks are. And we also have access to the satellite imagery. Somebody just told me that somebody can go to the Palm Beach uh state appraisals office, look for an address, and you can
actually see where those RVs are. So, we need to proactively go after illegal RV parks that are compromising the health of safety of document. So in conclusion, three things for the people living in
the RV. Um has to be 5 acres or more. This is my request. 179 equestrian season only owned or leased by the owner and no more than um no more residents living in RV other than what is allowed.
But in any case, no more than four. And uh and on the yearound properties, we have an obligation to report that to Palm Beach Tax Appraisal Office. And on the enforcement, we allow uh our town staff to u do observation based
complaints for illegal RV parks. Thank you. >> Thank you. So, would we like to go through this and and make our changes tonight and direct staff on this page by page because it it sounds like we we need to be a little more detailed or do
we want to do this another night? >> I think another night. That's a it's a lot to unpack. I mean, >> I have my notes, so I'm I'm pretty clear on what I want to do. I'm I'm not discounting you, Paul. I I do think this needs to be to another as far as Vice Mayor Sud
I I hear you. I think there are some some legitimate concerns there uh that that we can certainly incorporate. Um I this this is again I think the fourth generation of what this looks like. So we're we're still trying to evolve this
and no one could agree with you more that code enforcement is the key on on keeping this under control. So, um, when would we like to direct staff to bring this back onto the agenda? October. I mean, we're right before season, and the
one we have now is wide open. >> Season's getting ready to start and what we have now is wide open, right? >> So, let me suggest this. Let me send these observations in a note mark marked up and you have your notes. Send it to the staff. We are meeting in the next
one and we can go point. I don't know that I necessarily agree with all your notes, Manish. So, >> no, no, I'm saying no, no, not agree. >> Let's bring I I'm sorry. Hold on. We'll bring it back to the August meeting. Um, it's it's a workshop, but we can we can certainly bring it back as as a
>> agenda item. If those council members that have notes would like to provide them to staff without direction as consensus amongst us, it's a waste of time. So, we need to cut together. We need to cut out what we want to cut out. we want to add what we want to add and then bring it forward for a first
reading. >> And I think the idea, Lisa, of going through it just page by page and just coming to consensus is how it has to happen. I agree with you. >> Okay. >> Exactly. >> So would you like to have this at our next meeting in August, which I believe
is the >> What's today? The 4th. No, the 18th. >> Yes. >> Yeah. 18th. >> The 18th. Okay. Bring it back on the 18th. That's at the That's at a workshop meeting. Yes. For you guys knock it out.
>> Yep. We'll knock it out. We'll have it in in final form and um hopefully we'll direct it to be brought back for first reading at the September meeting. And at that point, there should be little discussion on this. We should have it very well in hand at that point. So,
>> lots of relevant arguments about it, too. >> Yes. Yes. >> Madam Mayor, I do have a comment card on this item. >> All right. Thank you. Anybody else there? Vice Mayor Sud or Council Member Kaine? >> No, I'm good. Thank you. >> I'm good. Thank you. I will do >> council members. I will I will share my
points with you all just so you understand that reference. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. >> And we have public comment. >> Good evening. Good evening once again. Tracy Affluence Afro speak.
>> He's going to get the giggles now. >> Hear what he just said. It's very >> All right. the RV ordinance. It's It's still really complicated. I'm not convinced that this is going to solve the underlying problem that we're currently having. The current ordinance costs way too much, takes too much time
of staff, wasn't revenue neutral, and the one thing that I noticed from the um in this new thing that were unoccupied, unoccupied, there's still an affidavit that they're wanting to put in there,
which I thought you guys exade that. >> We didn't. Yeah, I thought we did. Um I thought so, but it's still back in there. And I watch the ulc actually watch every meeting. I don't know why. Um but from watching the ulc meeting, there's just no red real direction with
this going forward. Um how does this ordinance reduce staff time compared to the current ordinance? And what problems are we actually trying to solve? Health, safety, illegal occupancy, or just simply storing an RV? Thank you. >> Thank you.
All right, that brings us to agenda item eight. I I think that's um the public works director item >> using your supplemental for this. >> Yes sir. So this is just um to go over the
discussion that we had about North Road Paving. You guys asked for a price list. We gave a I reached out to JW Cheetum working. >> You have to talk like right at it. >> Oh,
it was close enough. So we had produced the um quote from JW Cheetum for a thou thousand square or thousand linear feet as the quote came out. Um as you guys see the supplement that we provided tonight is the
supplement that um was requested by council and the agenda review. This is just going over how many or how many linear feet that we see that is the maximum damage that we see out there that we can fix to make it more bearable
for the the residents to travel up and down this road. This is not a permanent fix. This is to knock out the big areas. A lot of the areas we have to as staff has to remove all the dirt that's been there for the last 15 years of neglect
of cleaning that road off. There's a lot. Uh we started down on the east end when we paved E- Road. We went down with the grater and we started peeling back some of that that excess dirt. Next thing you know, we revealed five extra feet of roadway.
>> There's a lot down there that we revealed. We have to do that the whole way. Um it's going to take some time. Um once we get done with a-road, it's one of our plans is to go down and start removing all that dirt so we can reveal how much actual roadway we have. We did
a little bit on 147th as well where the road pinched in. We moved back the rocks that was on a resident's property that was actually pushed out into the the Ojam roadway and we revealed another 6 ft of roadway that was being taken in by a resident.
It was they just kept moving the rocks out into the roadway that was just letting the grasses keep grow further and further out. So we actually shoveled back till we found the edge of road and as and moved residents rocks back to their fence line and we retained our
roadway back again. That is our plan to go all the way down north road to start this journey of trying to repair and fix that roadway. Um, we I was working with the town attorney, I mean the town engineer on
getting a quote as um, council member Anita had asked for for a full finished of the drainage. Um, we're still waiting on for pricing for catch basins, what we can get a bulk price on pipe would be if
we put catch basins all the way down that whole roadway. you know, as we spoke, it would be another joint thing with residents for easements for each, you know, property to get the water to flow to these catch basins. I think it's a it's a manageable thing
that we can do in-house. It's just not to become a giant contractor like we did on this last project. >> Okay. when you said you were grabbing back that extra five feet that rocks were rolled out and that
>> um I I assume you can justify that with surveys, right? >> Yes, sir. So, when we actually spoke to the new homeowner and the residence at that exact resident, um I guess a driver had plowed through their fence at
one time. the the fence that was there originally, they had a playground behind there and the driver blew through the fence and blew through the playground. So, that was the reason why the previous owner had put all the rocks out there. >> Right. I mean, I just I know of individuals who um after some storms or
what the case may be and they were told to take their greater down the road and next thing you know some road got taken away and then there was claims made to that yard that that property that was taken by the greater >> because there was this assumption of
maintained for x amount of time and stuff like that. So that's I just want to make sure that we're >> Yeah. So I verified this not just cuz we found road base over there. >> No, this is the actual Ojun road. >> This is the Ojun roadway that there was
6 ft of grass grown over the o roadway. >> Misunderstood. I thought he was talking about found road base o dirt and then next thing you know he said okay all right that makes sense. So the basins when when we look into
getting the price for for basins um are we >> you can't speak from the audience. So uh there are 13 basins going down B- road south the only engineered paved road in the town and I think seven of them are
actually in the edge surface of the road design. >> Correct. So, are you looking to do like an a-road south kind of thing with obtaining easement widths and basins and water polishing and all this other stuff we've been sold in the past or can we
just incorporate the drainage right into the edge of the paving? >> So, the issue would be unless there was an actual swale to the roadway that water would just run off right on people's properties and wouldn't even go into those catch basins. So my overall would be as like a a road
south. We're going to put it like >> I don't think you're going to see that happening from this county. >> Well, that's why I actually said that that would be the only feasible way to do it. If we actually want to do catch basins put in, other than that, we're just going to be running water off into residents properties and hoping it's
going to get to a catch basin. >> Well, it's Ojim now, so it kind of runs off. I think it was it was the whole thing and we we had mentioned you know all of us have spoke about you know doing it right the first time and you know and then so what would it take to put the catch basins in part of putting
the catch basins in would be creating that swell that diverts that water down to the catch base right >> I get it >> okay that's >> you can also pitch the road >> right but you can pitch the road this way but it's just going to wash onto the property just like the dirt road does
>> longitudinally and sideways That's how you know. >> Yeah. I mean, >> wow. Are you Roman? God, we think we've been doing this since Roman times. Are we building aqueducts here? >> So, sorry, but
um now that you brought a road up, what is the paving schedule for a road? Do we have a timeline on that? >> Um so, FPNL is on site. They have delivered the um the actual DOT approved boxes that should have been originally
>> that we all thought we were getting. They're actually they have delivered them. They're starting to install them, starting to replace them. Um I think this week they're coming in to start the two of them that we are looking at that are in the roadway. Um FPNL has
requested that because for them to move the boxes off the roadway where they're actually at, it will put down power for residents. They have requested if they can leave them at the same site because they are DOT approved boxes and that they will install them at the height of
the asphalt. >> So they'll be incorporated into the surface of the road. >> Correct. >> Which apparently we were told previously that could not be done. So, I'm thrilled to hear that you can actually do that. >> Yes, these are the full big concrete boxes. They're not the >> town did not allow that to happen
previously, which >> they were requesting. I'm still talking with the our town engineer and seeing what his request is on that as well. >> Curious. Thank you. Uh and and >> we are looking hopefully the end of September. >> Oh, thank you. Yes. >> You know, so that's that's
>> cur season. >> Yes, ma'am. Uh and um you've also um mentioned um when this was brought up about paving less than ideal width um and we got back
the opinion on the double stripe down the center. We had asked for single lane signage um from the engineers. Did you happen to to get that? >> No. So we have not cheetum asked to actually double to come in and line the
new roads that we just paved the small roads. I postponed them because I did not have an actual direction from council yet. Yeah, we had asked for if we don't do the striping, can we get the engineer recommended signage for approaching that area that would be less
than uh two lane width um to let people know whether that's a yield road and yield to oncoming traffic, whether it's canal side. Um yeah, I think we need that answer before we >> No problem. >> And and don't give them a green light. I mean, they can they can wait till September now. Well, that was I already
gave them that option. It was they had to wait until we're done with a road. >> Awesome. Uh, Council Member Kane or Vice Mayor Sue, any comments on this item? >> Yeah, I do. >> I do. Okay. So, >> okay. >> I I believe there should be a standard
standard in the town. I don't believe in shortcuts. I have been a firsthand experienced person. when all this water comes down to someone's property, you you don't take care of these issues and then someone gets all that flooding. So
I'm not encouraging any such shortcuts, any such subpar engineering design. I believe north road is a major uh important sort of a connector um among different letter roads. So I would like
this to be safe and the width has to be as recommended by our engineers. Um now with regards to um you know catch basins and all the best practices I I highly support that it we have to do this right. One thing
we learned from the past is we don't want to cut corners. And finally, I think we as a council have to get ahead of um explaining the rights of the residents. I was one of the folks who
did not sign the town standard um rights to take over the property or easements rights and so forth. So I would love to have I think that has now become a standard. You have two different easement rights. one for the pavement,
one for the drainage or whatever that best practice is. We need we we would love to share that education with the residents that their rights are protected but they must know what it means when they sign an easement. But um
so I would love to u help educate residents so they feel that they can trust the government to uh do the right thing with their easement rights. Thank you so much. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, any public comment on this?
>> Yes, madame mayor. I have a few cards on this matter. First one is Brett Raflowitz. >> Brett Rafitz Fro. you know, if we're going to look into upgrading roads and drainage and all that, I think it's really important to
before looking for materials and options like that is we got to work up a design. So, engineer needs to work up a design, figure out what size structures, what size pipes, and then once that's established, it's quite easy to start get numbers. you'll be able to shop
everything out for you, get multiple options on everything. Even if it's buying direct to the manufacturers, and and even if you have a contractor doing the work, you can still buy the materials, save a little bit of markup, and go about that way. Um, Chetum's
great, big company, Ranger, Community, they're your top three dogs, but they're going to come with the highest payload either as well for pricing. So there's much other there's a lot of other contractors you get pricing for and probably save 20 30%. But that's my two cents on that one.
>> All right. Thank you, >> madame mayor. The next card we have is Cassie Suchi. Cassie Succi. Um I respectfully oppose establishing a fixed standard paving width north road for any road. Um if it requires expanding the roadway beyond
its existing legally established footprint. The purpose of this project should be to improve the existing road where the Ojum is and not to widen it to an 18t width if it doesn't exist there or there's no ODM Ojum at the expense of
a adjacent property owners. Where pavement already exists, it should generally be resurfaced within that footprint unless there is a clear demonstrated legal right verified rightway and genuine public necessity to expand it. Adopting a standard width by
saying 18 feet straight down without first confirming exactly where the public right away is in the limits of existing easements creates an unacceptable risk of encroaching onto private property. This is not a theoretical concern.
It's a real concern that this town has faced lawsuits in the past for attempting to impose and construct a standard roadway width that extended beyond legally acquired rights away. Property owners adjacent to the road should not be placed in a position where
their land is effectively taken or their rights clouded simply because we want to have a standard design. I think whatever you do in this, you need to tell them where the Ojim is is what you're resurfacing unless you expand it into
the canal right away, which is the town's right away and not onto private property. We've faced this in the past and it's something we really need to consider. Um, with the example that was given about the the fence protecting from the roadway with the rocks, if
you're scraping that back, are we now creating uh liability by creating something there? I don't know. Maybe something needs to look into that. But I would urge you not to put a standard width because when you're dealing with a contractor, 18 ft straight down 18 ft
wherever the Ojim is. And if you're going to expand it, expand it on the town's property and not the private property. >> You got the Q-tips over here. >> Thank you. Um, Vice uh, Council Member Kane, can you put your mute on, please? >> Yes. I'm sorry. I'm I'm having to put
some bandages on my mother. I'm trying to find my mute as we speak, but I'm not finding it. I'm working on it. >> All right. Thanks, Madam Mayor. We have um, Virginia Standish. Virginia Standish North Road who has
witnessed the abysmal projects that have happened on North Road reminding you one we have fire hydrants up and down that road two we will not be giving any additional easement I'll get to standards shortly in the water district
um not when we have Ross related owning 96 acres across from us and you could easily have one way on each side. Where does this town get the nerve to ask residents on North Road to give up more
of their land for an 18 foot standard when you have major developer on the other side and vehicles? I realize it's supposed to be a maintenance easement. I I I I realize we're all living in fantasy land that it's still a maintenance season only or it's a horse trail only. I personally witness those
sod trucks, delivery trucks, everything running up on the other side of the canal. You have the option to make it one way each side, single lane each side. It is ridiculous to expect one standard for every road. You are
endangering the community by doing so. When that cutth through was open, we had non-stop traffic coming up from Southern Boulevard to B- Road to North Road to go through the cut through. Um, I appreciate that you have engineers. I
appreciate you have standards. Tell me what the standards are for the road on the north side of the North Road Canal, please. Because we are not participating in giving any additional easement again when a major developer has 96 acres. And
if you think that's really a sod farm, I'm going to sell you a lot of swamp land. Thank you. Thank you. >> Well, Madame Mayor, I do have another comment card. However, um his comment is regarding the the balance of the B- road
paving. When will the balance of the B- road uh be paved? >> Okay, you can get up and speak. >> Okay. Um, the first name is Joseph and I'm sorry I can't read this last name. >> It's okay. It's everybody. >> That's what I thought it was, but thank you.
>> That's it's okay. Thank you. Thank you all. Yes. >> Um, so this is very new to this is very new to me. Uh, >> can you say your name, please? My name is Joseph Marciano and I recently bought a property about a year and a half ago on B-roll
and I love it here and I appreciate everything that you do and I just have one question but in the last couple hours I feel like I've learned so much and I appreciate your time and effort. Um, so I live on uh the farm is on B-roll and um it's been a dream come
true for my daughter and we love everything about it. And my only question is um the road stops being paved about a quarter of a mile if not less from our property. And I was told to ask if
B-road was on any type of schedule or agenda. And that's the reason I'm here. And um if you don't have an answer tonight, that's fine. You have my phone number. Um just just curious to see if that's on the schedule or the agenda. >> I I think and I appreciate your time
tonight. I think you'll find that as we get into our budgeting discussions over the next few weeks. Uh that's when you'll start to hear some of those answers coming forward. So um it was one how many gaps were there? Three, four? >> We did three this year. >> There were three gaps.
>> Yes. B road north is the last gap. >> Correct. >> Well, >> of course we are >> the 25th is >> you can speak to those folks over there on the history and that. So just saying. So anyway, welcome to the town.
>> You're quite welcome. All right. Um so we're going to hear back on signage. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. And um I I think that tonight um council members that are coming in via Zoom, did you have
anything to add um for public works? >> I just think we need additional information. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I I I also would like to add you know when you say width of the road uh
what is the width uh that is required for a town uh road with that sort of traffic density uh what is the width and that would inform us of the decisions that we have to take. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. I'm sorry. Did you
guys get a measurement on the damaged areas yet? >> Yes, ma'am. That's on your attachment. >> Got it. Oops, sorry. Wrong page. >> Separate attachment added to it. It was just under 2,000 ft of the major areas.
>> So that th00and ft section price would work. >> Um, yes, it would. It would come in in handy. I mean, if we did all these that were just under 2,000 ft, they would come in and do it all at one shot. >> So, it' be a little less because it wouldn't be two mobilization fees, right?
>> It would be it would be one mobilization if we did it all at one shot. So the I'm saying that thousand foot number that you have is not plus of mobilization. That's including a mobilization >> that was including one mobilization. >> Right. So yeah. So that's what that's what I'm getting at. So
>> it's about it's about $109,000 for for 2,000 ft. So >> if you do it 2,000 one time, you're only paying what it's going to come it's going to be a little less cuz you're not one of those. >> Oh, I see. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just kind of >> so >> keep it perfect. And obviously if we're
going to pave over the damaged areas, >> we wouldn't actually we wouldn't pave over the damaged areas. Those >> that's with us removing the damage. >> Yeah. You're taking out sections and and repairing sections. >> Correct. >> But there's there's ongoing width, right? Because you're going to that that
thousand feet is going to encompass beyond some of that damaged area, right? As you get >> Yeah. So we would stay within the actual the width of the roadway that's there now. >> Correct. That's Thank you for clarifying. So, um, anything else on this item?
>> Yeah, I would like to ask Sorry. >> What would you like to ask? >> Yeah, one second. Hold on. >> Okay. I'm sorry, I'm on multiple devices. Okay. My question is, do we know um the
type of commercial vehicles or heavy vehicles that damage that road? Do we know a little bit about how do we control that? If we build this beautiful new road, are we at the risk of having it damaged again? Do you know that? >> I think if we had that crystal ball, it
would be a fabulous >> No, I know. I'm asking, is there any >> We have tree roots involved. We have water damage involved. We have we have poor construction involved. We have limited material that wasn't as delivered and promised. >> There's there's a lot of uh a lot of
issues here. Vice Mayor Sud. No, I I I I I let me ask my question to Craig directly. My question is, is he aware of any heavy commercial traffic that goes through that section of the road that is not allowed to go over there or some
something we should be taking action on? Yeah. I mean, the only heavy traffic that we know that does come in and out of B-roll or would be the sod farm. I can't confess to any other property out there that I'm not sitting on North Road
watching for trucks coming in and out. But we know that the sod farm has trucks coming in and out when they're in season. >> Oh dear. It's not just in season. >> Yeah. But >> but they're allowed and they're allowed to to Manisha's point. Gas that's not
allowed. They're allowed. They own the property. They can truck sod in and out. You unfortunately that's you know >> Yes. The thing is is you know how do we >> impact is there a way for him for us to ask them to contribute towards uh
>> Vice Mayor Sud I would ask that you wait until the council comments at the end because this is something that I plan on discussing as a as a an item. So and and this would not just affect this North Road section. So can can we bring it up later? >> Well, I can't read your mind. I don't
know what comments you have but on this on this particular on this particular topic >> I would like you know for the record purposes I would like to know what are the measures we have in our toolbox to go to these commercial heavy commercial
folks who can afford this who can very much contribute and and >> yes we'll be discussing this further yes absolutely and not just in this agenda item so >> let's move on to agenda item nine.
I I think that's um uh development standards or community standards director. Um Miss Gardner Young. >> I think that's the uh uh that's the zoning uh map and land use
map conflict. Um, I think the what we need to do is move forward on a townwide um zoning map. There's a number of irregularities
um in the map and inconsistencies in the map that neither um the community standards director or myself understand how they occurred. Um, so I think we should try to get the our zoning map to
match um the land use um map as much as possible. The exception um would be uh the PK property. Um and I think there's a a need to do
this. you know, we've got the the re um zoning and some other zonings that don't even really exist. Um and there has been concern about the the re zonings. What we would suggest is that um looking at
this on a moving forward basis is do a townwide reszoning um so we get a new zoning map. Um on the rees, we treat those um as zoning in progress and have them
developed in accordance with the um with the AR standards uh so that so so that they can move forward with um active development. Um that's the direction that we're seeking with respect to to
this um item. I know that um the community standards director is working on getting uh someone to to do the mapping for us. Um and we need to move forward with this.
Um but it should be a town we need a new town zoning map. >> Right. But I thought when we talked I'm sorry to jump in. >> Go ahead. I I I thought when we talked about this last I think it was a workshop whatever we talked about this last and it was going to be some kind of
proposed this is what we're proposing. I'm hearing the same exact thing that we heard the first time and I can tell you the one re that's in the at at Sea Road and collecting maybe that was some old kind of zoning whatever that Palm Beach wasn't able to do because I can tell you
that used to be owned by a by a mother and her daughter. Um, it was kind of family, right? And now it's two separate property. It's always been separate, but now it's definitely two separate owners. It's not even like what you would think a a residential estate plan would be,
right? Because it's two different owners now. So, I mean, I don't I think there's >> Yeah, it's a non they're non-conforming lots. >> Every lot in our town is a non-conforming lot, Jeff. I mean, every >> Okay. Well, maybe the ones that were
allowed to subdivide before one one and five. But, you know, I I my point is is is yeah, I I I would like to see some kind of proposal. This is what we're saying. This is what we're thinking. This is what we want to do. You know, I I I I don't know about the rest of the
council, but the last time we saw this, I heard the same thing. Well, we want to address this and this we we need to do an overlay and do some kind of reszone to fix these rees and these kind of, you know, non-conforming zoning entities. So, I don't I don't know
>> to to add to that, Council Member Coleman, uh council directed staff to reach out to the three RE properties and to um inquire uh whether they had any opposition to becoming a residential and
to administratively make that happen. So, to his to Council Member Coleman's point, uh we're here tonight with another agenda item basically talking about the same thing again. Has there been any effort to contact those three uh land owners? >> I know that we're in contact with one
because they've got an application pending. >> And that's actually a nice way to do it. The county changes your zoning. They just change your zoning. >> Exactly. >> They don't even ask. They just change your zoning. >> Well, and and we're going to That's the
That's the point on on these. We do need to change the We need a new zoning map, guys. There's a real question as to We just need a new zoning map for the town. >> The entire town.
>> The map doesn't change the underlying zoning on the properties though, right? >> Yes, it does. when you when you adopt a when you when you adopt a zoning map >> for the entire town, um it will uh change the the zoning for those that are
um changed here and it'll designate the zoning, I should say. It'll designate the the zoning for the properties within the town. those. >> So, so to clarify, if we did reach out to the three residential estate folks
and change their zoning, that would not be real because it's not a map change. >> We would have to adopt a map. >> You would you would need to you would need to um put it on the
you would need to adopt a a zoning designation for those properties. The way you do that is by um putting it on the on the map. >> No, sir. No, sir. You don't understand. I'm not talking about adopting their zoning. I'm talking about changing their
zoning. You must adopt a new map to change their zoning. with respect to the the R, if you looked at the RE individually and you wanted to change it to AR, when you change the the zoning designation on those properties,
you change the map designation as well. Okay. Um, >> so I think I think we're apples and oranges here. >> Yeah. >> Can we change their zoning? And it it by default changes the map or or we have to
do the map to change the zoning. >> Um when you when you change the zoning designation, it will alter the map. The issue that I've discussed with many of you and I think all of you at one time
or another have indicated this. Um there is a question as to when this town ever adopted a zoning map >> and what's the impact to do that? >> Explain the impact of that please. If we
have not adopted a zoning map, >> well then there then the the there's a question as to whether or not the properties have been appropriately designated. And so the cleanup on, you
know, we have these we have these remnants. We can't explain why there would be remnants. Um so our recommendation is let's adopt a clean zoning map. Um the exception being
um the PK and the CR because they have a plan to um address that um and move forward so that it is on their application. everybody else. It would be to bring them in conformance with the ex um
what they think they have and so that the town staff when somebody comes in on these properties can answer questions as to um how they can develop. But what what what does RE get you, Jeff? What what is
what what is that what falls under that? Does a stable fall under that? A riding arena? because I can tell you that that that's not in conjunction with what's in real life right now. >> Doesn't reflect it. So >> that that's that's that's exactly the
the the issue, Councilman Coleman, is the properties are designated RE. Um we don't have an RE uh zoning category. Um so somebody comes in on that property
or one of the others that you know has one of these um latent uh um commercial categories and they go okay what can be developed here and the staff doesn't have an answer for them
>> right so again again I ask >> again I ask why can't we just change it why can't we make those three properties properties AR >> well there's >> like the rest of the town and then and
in doing so it will yes it will change the map because there will no longer be three little beige blocks on the map and the re will no longer exist there right but why why can't we do that but as we've discussed there there's more than
there are other classifications that are an obvious error and don't have corresponding um classifications or you know um code text that are
associated with them. >> So then I I I ask my fellow council folks for for a consensus that we give a direction that you come this comes back to us with a list of those deficiencies and a plan
how to fix it. which which properties are not not kosher whatever you want what term you want to use I mean I can the state college isn't even marked as as institutional on here so I you know the map is wrong right so that's that's my
that's my my ask and we can you know do we bring it back with a list of of the of what doesn't comply and what needs to be fixed and what the fix is or what the proposed fix is and and the pros and cons of the Thanks.
>> Okay, >> I'm in for that. >> Council member Kane. >> Thank you, Vice Mayor Sud. >> Yes, absolutely. >> All right, with that direction. >> Thank you. >> All right, brings us to uh I'm sorry.
Was there public comment on that? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Make it fast. >> It's quick. >> It came to confuses. Cassie, don't get us. >> Um, so I just had a comment about um the commercial recreation and I know it's
going to come back, but some of the things you might want to consider, you know, that it's consistent whatever we do. Is it consistent with our comp plan? Because I know there was big discussions and how it was taken out and put back in and taken out, put back in, staff kept putting it back in. Council kept
removing it. Um, what objective standards does it have? And basically, um, does it preserve the character? So, and is can the current zoning we're talking about that VK can the current commercial zoning cover that? So, just anytime we do anything with zoning and I
know you all are really great about it. Just make sure it fits in our standards. >> Yeah. The >> Thank you. >> The reason for >> It's community recreation by the way, not commercial recreation for that for that item for that particular person.
>> Yes. The the reason the reason not to um move do anything with that particular property is we know that the applicant or the owner of the property is putting together an application um of their own
for and making a request of what they would like to see done on the property. And so that'll be addressed um by the council through that process. >> Thank you. All right. Item number 10. Uh uh is this uh you Karen or Jeff?
>> Yes, it is mine. Um madame mayor, >> um this was an item that was brought up back in January. Um basically um staff went out and did an investigation. The council at that time asked staff to stop to enforce it and to provide the
opportunity to review the line of sight language and to determine uh provide some guidance or some comments regarding that particular section. This was brought to the uldc. Um some of the changes that they had asked was to
provide additional diagrams uh clarify regarding uh line of sight situations. They wanted clarification regarding how you measure uh different the different zones and the document that was presented before you and attached this
um particular memo outlines exactly what the um uldc was proposing. At this point, staff is asking direction on whether you would like us to amend the existing language, and that would bring forth an ordinance based on what the
ULDC was proposing, or whether the council wants to workshop this further, or whether we should leave the existing language as it is uh presently in the code and whether you want staff to renew the enforcement or to stop or to
continue to stop the enforcement. >> All right. Thank you. Uh, Council Member Coleman, you turned your light on and off. >> Yeah, I I Well, because I I scrolled another page and I found the answer to my question. So, it's 10 foot whether it's that's a trail.
So, if my driveway right hits my road, I have to have I have to my whatever this dash line is, my my fence, whatever, has to be 10 foot off the road. >> Yep. You're giving off the town 10 ft. E even if there's no easement there.
>> Correct. >> Correct. >> That's proposing. I I I don't know about the council members online, but I think council needs to discuss this further. Um and we can bring it forward to our workshop in two weeks. >> Sounds like a plan, Madame Mayor.
>> Online, council members, >> I'm okay with that. >> Yep. >> Okay. Thank you. And a couple next one down for people in San Diego come out Los Angeles in those small
>> be right at their doorstep. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. That brings us to item 11. >> Mayor, I'm sorry. You do have a comment. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. >> For item number 10, Tracy Rockis. >> Didn't council already provide direction
to leave this alone? Why does it keep coming back up? What problems are we actually trying to solve? Is there accident data, engineering study, or any documented safety issues, or is this just a waste of the town's resources? Thanks. >> Thank you.
All right. Agenda item 11. Uh, acting town manager Oaks, I believe this is you. >> Yes, Mayor. Thank you. Uh the town was awarded 375,000 in state funding for the Lockahhatche Grove storm water system rehabilitation phase 3 project. The funding requires a 50% local match in
the amount of 375,000. Phase 3 will include improvements to the canal junctions, pump stations, control structures, public covert crossings, soils, catch basins, and other storm water infrastructure throughout the town. The town has identified high priority repairs along major local roads
and more than 200 potential locations requiring drainage improvements. On July 28th, town representatives met with Damen Amuso, government operations consultant for the Florida Department of Environmental Protection regarding the project and required amendment. Staff
will submit the request for agreement initiation. Draft amendment number two is being prepared and is expected to proceed through two review stages for transmitt to the town which typically takes approximately two months. Upon completion of the review, amendment
number two will be presented to the town council for review and approval. Following approval by the town council, FD and the town will execute the amendment. The finance director recommends that the town council approve the designation and carry forward of 375,000 from the fiscal year 2025 2026
contingency surplus to satisfy the required local match for the phase 3 project. >> Thank you. Can you clarify what the contingency fund currently has in it? >> Uh it is around 700,000.
>> Seems a little high. >> What? because we did the >> It's 700,000 minus >> It's 700,000 minus the 178 that we just approved, right? >> No, no, >> no. >> It's the It's the original amount
contracted for the sheriff minus two months of payments and the portion of December that was paid, >> right? But didn't we just approve something out of the contingency? Is it the same conting? I'm just asking clarification. There's there's two different there's two different contingency funds that you're talking
about. >> If you're talking about what we refer to as the $173,000 um amount, uh that that's separate apart with respect to the contingency that was set aside for the possibility
of the sheriff's contract, whether um that was because they sued us or we renewed the contract. Um, that amount is uh probably in the neighborhood of $500,000 at this point in time.
>> I thought it was around the 550. >> That seems about right. So >> 550 I thought. Yeah. >> So this this clearly would encompass this this uh amount of money. So, we need uh direction from council if we would like to uh basically utilize that
funding uh for our matching funds for the proof to the state that we have that funding. I >> say so that's a match, right? So, it's 375 to there >> 375. >> Correct. >> Yep. And that does this does not designate this does not designate what that money is going to be used for other than that
general >> storm wateration. Yeah, it's general storm water. >> Okay. >> Covers canals. So council has consensus on this to direct that money. >> Yes. >> Mayor, I would like to request a motion
just so it's clear for the record, please. Thank you. >> I'll make I'll make a motion to use the contingency money to >> fund the matching. >> I'll second that motion. See, >> and we're talking about the sheriff's contingency money. >> Correct. the sheriff's contract
contingency money >> from fiscal year 26 >> from fiscal year 26. >> Thank you. All right. We have a motion by council member Keen to uh approve the use of the uh fiscal year 26 uh funds
for the contingency for the sheriff contract uh to provide the matching funds required by the state and a second by council member Coleman. Do we have any public comment on this? >> No, madam. >> All right. All those in favor? >> I >> I >> I
>> opposed hearing none. Motion passes. 5-0. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. That brings us to item number 12. >> Uh, acting town manager. It's got your
name all over it. Thank you. Go ahead. >> Based on the July 21st, 2026 vacancy date, the town council must begin their process to fill the town manager position by October 19, 2026. There is a charter requirement that the town council shall begin the process to fill
a vacancy in a charter office within 90 days after the vacancy. A town manager recruitment t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t typically requires approximately 60 to 90 days and may take longer depending on the application. The council should determine whether the recruitment will be conducted by town
staff or an executive recruitment firm, the qualification experience, salary range and employment terms for the position, the application and candidate screening process, the format for council interviews and final list selection. Generally application
applications are accepted for at least three 30 days. It is unlikely that a permanent town manager will be selected and available to begin employment before the current acting town manager agreement expires. Uh the town council should provide direction regarding town
management beginning October 1st, 2026 and continuing until a permanent town manager assumes the position. The council may want to one negotiate a new contract with the current acting town manager. two, appoint another qualified individual as interim town manager, or
three, retain an individual consultant or firm to provide interim management services. An interim agreement should be presented for council approval at the regular meeting on September 8th to avoid a lapse in executive management authority.
>> Thank you. I'm sorry, Council Member Coleman, you've got your light on. >> Yeah, I I'd like to start unpacking this if I can. Um, so you know, we got to we're already behind the eightball on budget, etc. So, I
think we don't we have to post by a October 19th, right? We have to make a move by October 19th. >> No, we have to begin the process. >> That's that's what I that's making a move. >> Okay, what does that what does that mean? Right. >> Okay. So, what I begin the process is
making is like posting the job. That's >> no no no just a decision. >> This could be >> putting together a committee reviewing what the duties of the manager are. As we go through the budget, I think that we'll be looking at different scenarios as far as >> right
>> are we looking for more outside contract level services. I I think that that looks like a very different skill set than maybe managing a full in-house staff. Uh so I sorry to jump in on you on that but >> no that's not clarification in case the
point of clarification >> yeah we don't have to do we can look at we can look at salaries we can look at we can look at severance packages I'm sorry hold on we can look at severance packages and performance standards that we want to place around this job that
frankly from 2019 when previous councils decided to suddenly go to the full employment model this was never completely sused out and determined what this was going to look like. And I think we made a huge leap by going to simple majority to control charter officers in
the future, right? >> And and that for me >> is where I want to be. And I'm right there with you, Paul, that this could wait till after um the budgeting and and um we need to provide guidance as far as an interim agreement with the acting
manager to for >> Yeah, that's where I was kind of that's where I was kind of going. So, so um just I'm trying to just finish Anita and then you can jump on the back end there. Um >> so we have to we well okay go ahead. I mean I started this whole thing. Go ahead. >> Go ahead. Go.
>> So I guess so what I'm saying so where I'm at then so we have to be moving forward by October 19th. Correct. That's so scheduling a meeting or putting on on a workshop schedule would be considered moving it forward. Correct. Would you
not agree? I would agree with that. >> Okay. So, I'm I'm think that we give direction that our October 20th workshop. >> That's the 19th. >> Uhhuh. >> We got to do it by the 19th. >> Oh, we have to have the workshop by That's what I was asking before was we have to have the workshop by the 19th.
>> We could do it at our October 7th meeting as far as discussing where we're going to >> October 6th. >> October 6th. Sorry. >> Okay. So, let's let's schedule Okay. So, on the agenda for the October 6th meeting, we will come to a consensus as to how we're going to move forward with
picking a new manager. And that being said, I' I'd like to I don't know if we need a motion or whatever. Um I think that we need to um I mean, of course, we got to ask her, but I think if we could at least retain Miss Oaks till December.
So, we need a motion to to extend her contract or to offer the extension. Um, but if we can stay at least till December, if not March, I think, you know, they'll give us a chance to keep moving forward with the direction that we're going and we'll have give us time to
unpack all of what you just said. >> Yeah. Uh, Council Member Kaine. >> Yeah, I I was going to concur. I think that we have before we can put out an advertisement, we have a lot of work to
do in deciding what exactly it is that we're looking for in a town manager. And we really need to delineate that because we can't put an ad out for a job that that we're not actually even clear >> what we want. um you know and and I
think that you know kind of like maybe writing a contract what would what would be our ideal situation that we need to to get that figured out first because you can't put an ad out for hey we want somebody to take this job but we're not exactly sure what your duties are going to be what
what we're going to offer you for salary all of those things so we need we have a lot of decisions to make in what we're looking for and you know uh I'm assume I'm hoping that Valerie I know that she had said that she only wanted to do this
on an interim basis and I'm hoping that she'll hang in there with us for another couple of months to uh provide consistency and to uh have us get to uh making the right decision.
>> Thank you uh Vice Mayor Sud. >> Yeah, I agree with those comments. I would like to add u that uh we will uh like to maintain a neutral independent process to select the town manager. Uh I
think um perhaps as we make some decisions on the our our legal partner or whoever that firm may be uh ask for their guidance is this is not something unique to us. we can learn lessons from
other towns and so forth to provide the screening and application process. I would like this screening and proc application process out of the town staff because we are hiring the head of the town staff. It should be maintained in a neutral independent fashion. Uh I
would also like to suggest down the line that uh not only we have the job description but we also have the town manager's contract. I don't care. I I don't want to negotiate a contract based on who that person is. We should have
standard terms like any mature town would have with sure with minor little finetuning but majority of the terms and conditions and performance and checks and all that balances should be well stipulated in the town manager's
agreement or job performance contract. And uh regarding the job description requirements and so forth to have it in alignment with our town charter and our uh direction, I think we will need some sort of um uh guidance from uh from the
lawyers uh in the HR employment law who work with various municipalities of our size and nature. Thank you so much. >> Okay. Thank you. So, uh, acting town manager, uh, Oaks, um, I I leave it up to your consideration how long that
window of extending your interim agreement is something you're comfortable with. Is that something you want to commit to through a certain time period or do we leave it sort of we extend it through either even the budgeting year and but
that's contingent should you we do ultimately hire a manager and then you step back into your clerk role. I I I don't you know I don't want to speak for you before I comment. Council member Stevens did you want to speak? Maybe >> he doesn't have I just want to make sure
everyone has an opportunity to speak before I do. >> Yeah. >> Um I do understand that we are in a bit of a predicament considering um all of the outstanding things that we are looking to address. Um I am willing
to stay on um while you find your next town manager. I would prefer uh date certain um so that way you know it's agreed upon and there's expectations um clearly stated uh during my tenure.
Um however it would have to be a new agreement because my current agreement is as the acting manager when there was a manager. Now that there is a vacancy it would need to um be interim um and I would like to possibly change some of the terms uh within the contract. Okay.
I also would like um your direction on the town clerk with obviously there's upcoming uh qualifications for candidates moving forward for next year's election. So, you know that that could be addressed in that in that same concern and we'll see that back in
September. >> Yes, mayor. >> Okay. Uh, I guess my question would be is um are you guys going to appoint someone to kind of negotiate an agreement with me to place on the September agenda?
>> How do you feel, council? I >> I think the it depends on the next agenda item, how the law firm and the town attorney uh things is discussed because I I would not recommend a council member uh one council member negotiates anything. It should be done
through um standard through a town uh attorney or an independent law firm and then should be shared with all five members all at the same time. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh council member Kaine. >> I think that the who whoever our legal
is would be the appropriate person to negotiate the contract. >> Okay. >> Concur. >> All right. >> Sure. >> All right. That seems to be the way to go. So, uh, we will leave that up to, um, the council, the legal counsel as the negotiator, uh, to bring it back to
the town council. >> Uh, and and may I ask just while we're in an open forum, you had mentioned December, possibly March. Uh, is there kind of a >> preferred timeline? >> I was kind of thinking consideration. >> I was kind of thinking like Lisa because
of, you know, election time, etc. I mean, I had really, you know, back in June or whatever. I was thinking we probably like this to last for a year because that way we can kind of mold some things instead of trying to bring somebody in the middle of changing. But
I understand that, you know, this isn't your direction that you wanted you're willing to help us out. So it's I I was kind of leaving open-ended three or 6 months, whichever. >> Could we leave it to the legal counsel to negotiate with you what that timeline is? Cuz I think you know best um given
that you're the one with your finger on the pulse. Yeah. So >> I I I I disagree a little bit. I don't think I think this is a decision that I I would like us to have stability whether it is >> um Miss Oaks or whether this is any new
candidate. We would like to have a stability in the town. I think after what are you proposing? So what I'm proposing is um until December um until December 2026 and then after that based on and we are not going to wait until
December 31st but based on how things are progressing we can then discuss another date. So we should extend it only until December. Well, I mean, I would have to think that, you know, Miss Oaks would probably be negotiating whatever pending that, you know, the our
selection of a new manager. So, she's I don't think she's >> Yeah. Whatever. You understand what I'm saying? So, I mean, if we want to revisit this again and have to discuss it again in another agenda item at the end of the year, etc., etc., or we could say, you know, till till December with
no problem with extension or six months. And that I think what Lisa said leaving up to her and whoever council is to negotiate that then they can bring it back to us in September and we can have it out. No, I I know but I'm saying as a council this is my one person's opinion
our d my direction or my council is have a timeline because we know during the budget season after the budget we will decide what the direction is all job posting will be done interviews contract selection the start date will be
>> January 1st uh 2027 for the new town manager if based on how everything goes and at least If we have a clause that says until December 31st uh or earlier based on mutual discussions if the town manager is selected earlier or it could
be extended based on mutual discussion. That's at least my input. >> Okay. Council member Kaine, do you have a a suggestion? >> Uh I agree for with Mr. Sud actually for a different reason. I think that we have
a habit of dragging our feet especially on things that take a lot of work and I think that we should put a timeline on ourselves. So I think that if Miss Oaks is amanable to have it be December 31st
or until a new town manager is selected. >> Okay. Uh Council Member Stevens, do you have >> Paul? Where were you going with that? Would you restate that before they jumped in? >> It was It was kind of the same thing. It's really It's It's I I was leaving it
open to Valerie because she would be doing us a service by by jumping and continuing what she said she would do. >> Okay. I just didn't want to cross the two because I'm I like the way you put that and leave it up to her. I'm good with that. >> Yeah. I was leaving it up to her to come back to us in September and say this is
what I'm offering. I mean, I think she'll I'm assuming you're sitting right here. I'm sorry, but >> talking. >> Yeah. I mean, I I I think that that's probably where she would go is, you know, but that's why I save it. Yeah. >> I I I agree with these two gentlemen
that um we're not even looking at what our next step is till October 6th. So, I think December 31st is a bit shortsighted. And and I think putting it till March when there's an election is is really, you know, that's going to
make it insane. So, I leave it up to you. >> And again, I appreciate that. Um, and I guess the reason why I asked is because I do want to have a realistic timeline. Um, while I would only like to stay on for 3 months, I do understand that that
is not um really convenient, right? Um, in terms of if we bring this item back by October and, you know, depending on how deep of a dive you're going to go, um, that will take some time. um naturally
um advertising all of those things. Um I think one of my biggest concerns is the fact that you know the election coming up right and making sure that that's completely covered. So if I if which is why I'm trying to
understand more so kind of a consensus of a a max timeline so that I can kind of in my mind figure out how quickly can we move on this. I I'm fine with a max timeline of one year um with the caveat that should we hire a manager in that
interim, you would return back to your stated position of town clerk. So that's where I I am just again to provide that continuity and to provide a a a comfortable uh understanding of what we're working on. And I don't disagree with you,
Council Member Kane. tend to kick the can down the road. But I do think that moving into the fall post budgeting, I think this is going to be a very serious conversation, um, I think we should also be, you know, looking at the town clerk, um, as a
charter officer. I know that was something that was discussed previously, but didn't come forward. So that would also be under a time constraint if we move that forward as a referendum vote. So I think that all is is realistic conversation that needs to be had and
sooner rather than later. So I don't think anybody's saying let's extend it to one year. So September 30th of 207. >> Yeah. >> 27. Wow. That seems a long way away. So the fact of the matter is is I do think it would provide us and and uh Valerie a
a comfort zone in knowing that we're not rushed. we don't have to to make a bad decision. We can look at all of the factors that are going to be um weighing in on how we proceed through this uh employment model that was previously
kind of left open-ended. So, I think the three of us here are happy with a one-year contract with the caveat that it can be um ended uh with Miss Oak stepping back into her previous town clerk role. So, Um, do we need to take a
vote on that? Do we need >> No, not yet. Let me add my comments. Okay. So, you are forgetting one thing in this assumption. >> That's how it works. But okay. >> No, wait, wait, wait. >> Miss No, you cannot. I haven't finished my comments. >> Please. >> I can't.
>> I would like to take a motion before before you put your comments in, please. So, do I have a motion? I'm trying to I thought I already made a motion, but yeah. No, I I got you. So, I I have a I make a motion that we offer to extend
Miss Oak's contract for a year or until we fill the seat of town manager. >> September 30th of 2027 for her to negotiate with the legal council. >> The legal the legal counsel. Yes. >> I got your second. >> All right. So, we have a motion. Vice
Mayor Sun, would you like to make a comment? >> Yes, I would like to make a comment. I think under your motion or thought process, you are forgetting one thing, which is what if Miss Oaks wants to apply for the full-time town manager position? You are assuming that she's
not a candidate. So by putting in her in that sort of a position and I I don't know how her salary and other expectations are you are basically appointing her as town manager right now def facto by giving all the s no wait
let me finish don't disturb >> so I'm saying is what you guys are now doing is right now >> you are appointing her as town manager for a year I I don't know what the salary and everything will shape up on on an interim or whatever you would call
it basis and killing her chances to apply for that position whereas there may be other candidates and I and I don't understand why does it take one year to make such decisions uh fortune 500 companies more 10,000 times complex
than you guys make those kind of decision within 60 to 90 days we have going to have a competent law firm they have comp we are going to have a competent lawyers we have to have competent external councils and I think it's a disservice to Miss Oaks if she
wants to be the candidate for the town manager on a permanent basis. Thank you. >> Thank you. I I don't think this precludes Miss Oaks or anyone else that would be qualified to apply should they choose to. So I have a motion.
>> Yes, >> I have a motion in a second. All those in favor? I >> I >> opposed. opposed. >> Uh uh motion passes 41. >> Lest anyone think that this council is
not impressed with what you've been doing, ma'am. Thank you very much for your help. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> All right. That brings us to agenda item uh 13. Uh acting town manager Oaks. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, this is the
continued discussion regarding the town attorney's contract. The council uh town council discussed the town attorney's contract during the July 7th, 2026 regular town council meeting and discuss the legal model at the July 21st council workshop. Uh, as part of the council's
evaluation process, council members had um the opportunity to meet with the town's current attorney, Mr. Kurtz, and also representatives from Niss Joerger, Gear Harris, and Fero, and also TG Law. At this time, uh, we turn it over to
council for discussion and direction, uh, as it relates to the town attorney's contract, uh, which is set to, um, expire in January of 27. >> Thank you. Um, I open the item for discussion. >> Oh, I'm sorry.
>> Council member Stevens, >> I'm sorry, Council Member Kaine, he's deferring to you. Oh, okay. I I just wanted to state for the record that I did have the opportunity to speak with Mason Joerger and, you know, was very impressed by
them as well. Um, and they seem to have uh perhaps a wider scope of being able to help with the variety of issues that we have. >> Okay. I do believe that every council member did uh take advantage of speaking
with uh both the outside councils that have brought their names forward as well as meeting with uh Mr. Curts on this matter. Uh Council Member Stevens, would you like to >> Well, I'm actually prepared to make a motion unless there's any more discussion of the matter.
>> Okay. Any other discussion? >> Not a sign. >> All right. Uh Council Member Stevens. Well, first I do want to >> No, hold on. I was speaking, you guys didn't hear me out. Hold on. I have some comments here. I think uh I had the
opportunity to speak with um um I think Miss Gemma uh Torcivia. I I think that law firm has a better much stronger credentials. And I also had the opportunity to speak with uh Miss Kurts
uh in good faith. We discussed the town's legal needs and what has been working and what has not been working and and um what is the the best uh move forward and I appreciate his
willingness to have those discussions. I think in the spirit of moving professionally and allowing sufficient time for an orderly transition, um I would like to um suggest that we can terminate Mr. Coat's cont.
>> Hold on, Vice Mayor Sud. Council member Stevens was going to make a motion. >> I'm not making a motion. >> Your comments that what you're what you're stating is is to make a motion. >> It's not a motion. I said we can discuss or suggest that we we terminate Mr.
Kurt's contract uh as of at the close of business on October 2nd, 2026. >> Okay, that's a motion. That's a motion. >> Okay, comments. Hold on. >> Okay, the the comments are the
following. So, I'm suggesting we discuss that and it will allow us to offer um October 22nd, 2026 will be the the last day and it will allow 60-day period for
transition in an agree agreed upon fashion as decided by the council and the and the uh town man acting town manager or interim manager. And I think in in nutshell I think we would like to
move on in a constructive fashion and um have the new law firm be reappointed and Mr. Kurtz uh given an opportunity for a no cause uh termination as of October 2nd. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh Council Member
Stevens, please proceed with your motion. >> First, I want to sincerely thank Mr. Mr. Curts for meeting with all council members and uh just sitting down and taking the time to go through everything. My motion I move to terminate Mr. occurs without cause.
again without cause effective immediately with his final 30 days being remote and with the understanding that he be available as needed to support staff in the incoming town attorney subject to any leave to which he may be entitled requiring the return of any
town equipment and files by the conclusion of the 30 days and to appoint Jim Torceia and TG Law as town attorney and accept the engagement letter presented at the July 7, 2026 town council regular meeting.
>> Thank you. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> All right. We've got a motion by uh Council Member Stevens. I I wouldn't even begin to try to repeat that. So, uh and a and a second by Council Member
Coleman. Uh any further comments? >> Yeah, go ahead, Miss Kayes. I I was just going to say I I'm not sure that that's allowing enough time for overlap. Um I'm not sure why it needs to be remote, but
um I I guess I have questions about that. I would think that he would need to be here with Civia's representatives to kind of go over things and do transition work. Um,
30 days is a short window, but if that's what everybody else wants, I I would suggest 60 days, but 30 days, I guess, is what seems to be the consensus. >> All right, Vice Mayor S. Yes, I I think
I understand there is a tendency to you know go with this kind of a decision and I have been the guy who led the charge on the previous town manager and in this case Mr. Kurts has displayed a good
faith effort to work with the town. He has two weeks of PTO that is pending. There is no need for creating this sort of a harsh oh go away don't come to the office out of his situation unless there is a bad faith uh situation
here. Uh even today he has the knowledge of the financial matters. We are in the middle of a budget discussion. We are in the middle of an audit. We are hiring a new financial company. There is no need for this kind of abrupt go back to the
home and only talk to us when we need. There is no such reason especially when uh Mr. Stevens is suggesting this as without cause. So I think we should uh offer 60 days he has um obviously he has
the notice period. He can go on in his con current contract until 2027. If he agrees in good faith to for cause and in cooperation as decided by the new council, as decided by the as the new um
law legal firm, as decided by the new um as whatever direction we give, as long as he cooperates, giving him 60 days uh is a good faith decision and he has two weeks of his PTO. So during the 60 week
uh days he is going to take that 2 weeks anyways. So um he has the right we will we have to pay those two weeks of acred PTO in any situation. So 60 days include 2 weeks. So technically you're giving
him basically 45 uh days. So I think that's a reasonable ask. So I would not be agreeing to your abrupt unnecessarily abrupt decision. Thank you. Okay. >> Okay. Well, please hold on. I I would
like to speak to that. I haven't spoken yet. >> Oh, awesome. >> So, I would like I I had asked for a clarification on on salary and PTO. Um, and that was provided.
Can Can y'all please keep it down a little? So, could we get a breakdown on that? I I've got it here in front of me, but if you could read it all, please. So to date, uh, Mr. Curts has 73
hours of PTO. Um, are you looking for me to let you know the calculations through? >> So 73 hours is about 9 days of a of a crude PTO. uh the the 30-day notice of
without cause uh is obviously there's payroll involved in that period as well. What would be the total pay? What would be the total PTO um due at the end of the period? Should we act tonight on a 30-day? Uh if you
were to do a 30-day um there's about three pay periods. Uh so that comes out to for the salary about 16 a little over 16,000 uh and for the PTO uh if it were to acrue based off
of and continue to acrue uh from today through September through September 2nd, you're looking at about 60 6,000 in PTO approximately. and and I
when I spoke with the the legal firms, I did ask what what the timeline was that was um adequate for them to feel comfortable coming on board. I also spoke to internal staff and asked what their comfort level was um for a
transition period. Everyone felt that 30 days was quite adequate and I believe there is reason to ask Mr. Curts to work remotely. Um, and that's where I stand on it. Council member Coleman, you wanted to speak. I'm sorry.
>> That I was going to say I I thought 30 30 days was amanable. I didn't think it was it was harsh. I didn't take Joe's line as harsh. It was just it requires 30 days. Here's 30 days. Um, you know, and
this is this is the transition you have. So, whoever we pick, you know, you got 30 days. And if they can't best if they can't live up to it then we go to the next guy. >> He's working remotely all this week due to co as well. It's clear that remote work is quite effective as co has proven
for years. So any further comments? >> Yes I would like to I don't understand in the town manager situation there was an active investigation or some for cause sort of allegations. What is your logic behind having her work from home? What is that serious that you think he
will interfere with? >> It's not a question of interference for me, Mr. Sud. It's it's been or Vice Mayor Sud. It's been just my own observations and and feedback I've gotten from staff that they feel that uh
during the transition period, it would be it would be cleanest for everybody to to have this action taken this way. So, >> okay. Let let me talk to the staff right here. Miss Father Oaks, do you have any comments? Do you think he coming to the
office will disturb your office or your operations in any way? >> I don't think that's appropriate. >> You said you heard from staff. I'm asking her. She is the town manager. She can say I don't want to answer. You can't just You can't tell me what not to ask. I'm asking the town manager. I have
the right to. So, what is the answer, Miss Oaks? Do you can say no answer? You can comment if you think it's obstructive. I want to hear about it. >> I think that's something you should have done prior to >> No, I don't want to do anything prior to either you say it now.
>> Look, here is my thinking. I don't >> Sir, I will ask you to be silent if you >> No. Why can't No, you are interrupting me. I have the right to make comments. >> I'm sorry. I will I will close the floor. I will. >> Why? Why? >> Hold, sir. >> Why?
>> No, I Why would you close the floor? You didn't give me an opportunity to say my comments. If I >> answer the question, >> sir. >> Yes. Yes, ma'am. >> Point of order. >> What? For what? >> Because you continue to speak over and I
don't think this is appropriate. I will allow you to ask Miss Oaks and any other C uh staff that's here present, but that may be something they choose not to answer. >> Okay. >> And I think it's highly inappropriate to do that in this forum. >> Okay, that's your opinion. I will move on. I gave her an opportunity to comment
and she didn't. So here is my comment. Rest of the comment. I think it's not just her knowledge of the legal matters. There are litigation, there is financial matters. He he just even responded to five different answers on the financial matters. So it will be beneficial for us
to give him two extra weeks, 60 days and including his two weeks PTO and October 2nd being the the last day. I don't see any reason unnecessary to create this sort of tension in the system. This is unless I hear something specific that he's obstructive. He's working in bad
faith. I don't see any reason. It's not just the handover to the legal firm. It's also handing over of his financial knowledge in the middle of the budget and audit process and so forth. So I my final comment is I don't think this
unnecessary situation is required. So, I'm not supporting it. Thank you. >> Thank you. I I think we've been provided adequate proof with the list of outstanding items that there's no need to continue to have this this person
working in the town with with all the stuff that has not been done in the year that the work has been provided. Uh, Council Member Kaine, do you have any comments? >> No. >> Thank you. We have a motion to terminate with co without cause. Uh to clarify
that would be 30 days uh notice that would include the pay periods during that 30-day uh window and that would in addition we would pay out the PTO separately. Is that what you're
proposing? Okay. As long as we understand that. Do I have any public comments on this item? >> Yes, madam mayor. We had Tracy Rafflez. Did I get it right? >> I'm really confused by by Mr. Sud. You wanted 60 days because of budgeting. We
haven't even gotten to a budget yet. On top of that, >> say comments to a member. >> Vice Mayor Sud Vice Mayor S. Please silence his microphone if he keeps speaking. >> Well, you said over the public. Thank you. Go ahead. >> We were in the same position last year
when Mr. Curts joined us. So what is the difference if we give them 30 days? It's 30 days. We're still in the same position we were last year during budgeting. So I applaud you guys for what you're doing and it's a hard decision to make. Thank you. >> Thank you. It's fiscal responsibility.
>> Thank you. Any other public comments? >> No, madam. >> All right. So all right. Uh we have a motion on the floor. No further discussion and a second. All those in favor? I >> I >> I >> opposed. >> Opposed.
>> Motion passes 41. Thank you. >> That brings us to staff comments, I believe. It's part of staff comments. It's part of staff comments. So, >> sorry. Good help. Good help. >> Yeah, >> I believe staff comments begins with the
town manager. >> Thank you, mayor. Um, as I announced during our agenda review meeting, um, we've already started our meeting with, uh, LinkedIn Consulting, our new grant writers. Uh, we will begin working on
the needs assessment, which then will help us to formulate our grant strategic plan, uh, which will ultimately be presented to council. Uh, so Kenthia has already reached out to each one of you to set those meetings up. Please try to set those meetings up as quickly as possible. um we are trying to wrap this
up within this month so that way we can um have something to present to you um as their contract does end at the end of September and so we really want to hyperfocus on getting this plan together and then that way we can focus on the grants that we will uh initiate them to
start writing. Also, um we are requesting consensus from council to add to the August 18th workshop, the uh audit presentation and also a discussion on nuisance abatement.
And would you like to start that meeting at 5:30 to give a little bit of time? I'm sorry, repeat that last part again. um asking for council consensus to add audit presentation and discussion on nuisance abatement to the council's workshop. And then you guys also added a
couple of items today. So I'm asking a can we add those items and two would you like to start the meeting at 5:30 rather than 6? >> You're you're fine with 5:30. >> Yeah, >> Stephen needs 5:30. Um council members on online 5:30 is good.
>> I don't I'm sorry. Go ahead, Mish. Yeah, I I would not be able to attend due to work obligations. 6:00 onwards, please. Thank you. >> Okay. So, you're not available until 6. >> 5:30. 5:30 is fine with me. And this is
August I'm sorry. Could you repeat the date, Lisa? >> August 18th. >> August 18th. 5:30. Okay. >> Yes. Vice Mayor Sud, would you be available via Zoom until you could get here in person?
>> No. Not. I I have a work obligation. I can't I have to finish that and then come to the attend attend this. So I would say six for me. >> Okay. Well, we will have a a quorum either way. So I say we we go ahead.
This is just a presentation by the audit and they they do take quite a bit of time. Um so um hopefully you'll be able to join us quickly thereafter. So, uh, anything else? >> Can I just can I I just make a a point
and I'm not sure how relevant this is, but I just want to make it that August 18th is election day, the primary election day. Um, I'm not sure whether people have other duties and obligations on that day. So, I don't know whether we want to consider moving it or whether we want to leave it on that date, but I
just wanted to bring that up. >> Okay. Thank you. Bye. We don't have a primary. So >> we don't have a primary, but the county has a primary. >> I understand, but it doesn't affect staff, you know, as far as like,
>> but people are voting for Republican primary or whatever party primaries on 18th. >> That's my only thought is, you know, >> 7 to 7, >> right? >> I would assume the polls are normally open 7 to 7. >> Yes, polls are Yeah, it is. It's it is 7 to 7 and there is early voting. I mean,
I have some obligations on that day to a candidate, but I think I can still arrange to be at the meeting. I just am bringing it up. That's all. I just making a point. >> All right. Make it happen. I'll figure it out. >> Yeah. All right. And nothing else. I'm sorry. Correct. >> Yes. Thank you.
>> All right. Town attorney Curts, did you have anything? Um, I know you have the Her Homes update. >> Um, basically, we have met with Her Homes. Um and we're in the process of setting
up some Mions. Um I will transfer download the information that I have on the subject to um the new law firm. Um and uh they'll take over the matter.
>> All right. Um have we preserved our um contractual protections? I I know there's been some moving parts on this matter. Do you feel pretty confident that that we have um fulfilled our legal obligations per the contract?
Well, that's always going to be in in dispute, but uh right now um we have the the issue um on FRO uh we have not paid them
any money and so um I think we're in a good legal position. >> All right. Are you um confident in speaking to what the issue is on that F-RO project for the public? >> If you want me to uh do that, I I will
explain the the situation. um FRO uh on FRO the um 96in pipe uh was installed
um at an elevation that did not meet um the plans um that had been uh drawn up and put together as part of the the bid. Um as a result of that
um higher elevation of the pipe being put in um there would be the possibility there's two basic possibilities that we've discussed. One is um redo the pipe
um at its appropriate elevation um or um build up the um the asphalt around um and basically raise the the road at the intersection.
Um the the uh secondary issue or or potentially a primary issue on which direction to to go with respect to that matter has to do with the fact that um a portion of the
96in pipe um there were two segments that were put together um was damaged during the installation and there is a crease um in the in the pipe. Um and
that uh uh there is a question which we have not resolved as to whether or not it is um significant impact on the structural integrity of the the pipe.
um the um uh the contractor doesn't uh necessarily agree with uh that assessment. Um but that's our current uh assessment of the situation. Um and that's one of the reasons for the mutual
inspection uh which was uh we were trying to set up for next week so that we would have a confirmation as to uh both sides agreeing as to exactly what we mean by the the condition of the
pipe. Um and see if there is a resolution that we can reach on uh that issue. Um and then the uh next most significant issue has to do with um the a-road catch
basins and drainage. Um on that project um that uh we had an expectation that uh catch basins were uh would have been manufactured by
this uh point in time. None have deliver been delivered to the the site. And um the drainage pipe that was um
sent to the site um is defective. And that was once again confirmed um by the public works director in that um they the the segments of the pipe don't um
mate uh if you will so they they can't be connected. Um the contractor has denied that um and they have been
um uh nonresponsive or elusive with respon in responding to our inquiry as to the status of the the catch basins. So, uh, we're in a continuing dialogue,
uh, with them. Um, and depending on the outcome of those discussions, uh, we may be seeking, um, termination of their, uh, contract. Um, or on the alternative, maybe they can satisfy um,
us and move forward. Um you do remember that there was very very significant savings with respect to the work that um uh they had bid on. Um between the four
culverts it was on the order of $700,000. Um and uh three of the three of the covert projects are
in a situation where they are um two of them are are are basically punch list um items and one of them is capable of being completed um by staff at a at a savings.
um and the work has been acceptable. So that's the situation. Staff is um reviewing um alternative means and mechanisms to
uh complete the various work. Um uh but uh that's that's where we are. That's the situation. Um and uh that's the status of things while
reporting. >> Okay. And and could you speak to the the contractual uh work orders? I believe one of them exceeded 200,000 which would have required a performance bond. What's the status of the performance bond?
>> Um there was no performance bond um um on the contract. Um um but there has been no payment. So we're in the same status as if there had been a performance bond. >> Okay. Thank you for clarifying. Anything
else under your items? >> Not tonight. >> No. Well, I would like to thank you personally for for taking the time to speak with each council member and and for your time as town attorney and um and
I we wish you luck in the future. So, >> I look forward to uh helping out in the transition. >> Great. Thank you. Uh town council member comments starting with council member Stevens. >> Is Miss Gardner Young still on Zoom?
>> Yes, I am. >> Hey there. >> Hey. I uh there was a resident that spoke earlier tonight from the podium in regards to tree mitigation, clear cutting, things of that nature. Um I'm hoping we can work with that resident and and and get her some answers and
again maybe uh push this issue to the uldc in the near future to kind of hammer down on some of those details. Um but I just wanted to throw that out there to you and see if that's uh see if that's definitely doable. Uh the other thing I want to thank you and um um
for for getting on the the fence on Folsam and Okachchobee. Um I think you helped in that matter too. I can't remember but any um you did, right? I think you I think we talked about it. >> That was initial, but >> yeah. Okay. >> Okay. Well, yeah, you guys looked into
that and they pulled that fence back. It's not perfect, but it's better than what it was. And um >> what practice >> do what? The ratchet strap. >> Yeah, the Yeah, the ratchet straps. I'll see how long they hold because those trees are are are putting some weight on it. So, but I just want to thank y'all
for doing that. And then I have one more thing. It might take just a second if you guys are still awake. >> That's okay. >> What? >> Hey. Yeah. No, you have some mints down here. So, >> all right. Tonight, I'd like to speak. And by the way, I'm I'm using the microphone over here now. I got in
trouble a while ago. I don't know if y'all saw that. She said, "Why are you using this microphone over here?" >> Because that one's very hard to get to >> use that work with it to move that. >> Yeah. I feel like I'm in like timeout in the corner over here is what I feel
like, man. >> Golly, I got trouble. >> All right. Tonight, Joe, >> do what? >> I said, "Welcome to my world." >> Yes. Yes. I understand. I understand.
All right. Tonight, I'd like to speak to something that has been on my heart for quite some time. Ever since my family moved to Lockxa Hatchee Groves, it seems as though there has been far more negative than positive in our town. I bear witness to stories about who hates who and who double crossed somebody
else. I've read the Facebook post and other messages about the divisiveness of council. I've received phone calls and texts that completely trash our committees and staff. As for the personal drama that apparently has been going on for years, I could care less. Some folks just need controversy in
their lives as a reason to exist. As for the trash talking, it comes with a job. However, I think it's way past the due date to interject something positive and rewarding back into our town. Tonight, I'm asking council to consider an idea that recognizes our citizen our citizens
who put others before themselves. I am talking about some sort of resident recognition, something, excuse me, somewhere at the beginning of every council meeting. I see no reason why we shouldn't highlight some of our community members for their contributions. The best part, it doesn't
have to be anything huge. Many times it's the little things that go unnoticed. I think about Mr. Austin on Hide Park who is always helping his neighbor adjacent to his property. I think about a lady on E-Road who needed to temporarily place a couple of her horses in another barn while there was some loud landscaping noises on her
farm. A neighbor stepped up, provided stalls, and didn't charge a single dime. I think about Miss Nancy in the Goodarth Farm and everything she's done to give animals a second home. I think of several residents around town that go out of their way to maintain their property so that when you drive by, you
think, "Wow, that's my locks of Hatche Gross." The stipulations for qualifying can be whatever we want. I'm thinking this is something that we could work through during a workshop or maybe assigned to a committee to hammer out the details. Together with the input from our residents, we could put
something together that showcases the best of our town. Council would not vote on the recipients. We don't want to be seen as playing favorites. Anybody can nominate for whatever reasons we decide. At the beginning of each meeting, we recognize an individual or individuals.
Present a small award of appreciation and possibly a photo op. And no, I'm not talking about breaking the bank on an expensive plaque. Something printed with a nice frame would do the trick. Please consider this idea for later discussion. Most importantly, let's just have fun with it. Cheers.
>> Thank you. Uh, Council Member Kaine. >> Yeah. Um, so, uh, I like your idea, Joe. I I I campaigned on trying to get rid of some of the divisiveness in town and was not
effective in doing that. So, anything that might try to alleviate some of that I think is a great idea. Um the uh anniversary/feterans dayfounders day committee is meeting tomorrow at 2 o'clock I presume still.
Um Valerie, can you confirm that that that's still happening with the COVID situation? one of our main people um is out of the office, so we may have to postpone that depending on uh her condition tomorrow.
>> Okay, maybe she could be on by Zoom, I guess. I I don't know. We had to postpone the last one, so it'd be nice to get on with that. But anyhow, I want to just give everybody a status update on that. And uh I don't think I have anything else except uh got a lot done
tonight. Thank you. Uh, Council Member Coleman. >> Yeah, I I Amen, Joe. Amen. Um, that's You see that a lot. You know, I can tell you the lady shaking her head at me right now. Her and I disagree a lot. We'll argue in the parking lot. We'll
argue at boonies. We'll argue across the canal on the phone. Um, you know, at Virginia and I, we we we debate occasionally, you know. Um, but it's, you know, it's all, you know, listen, we we know that if we need each other, we call each other and we're there, right?
So, I mean, it's all, you know, it's it's about being neighbors and being, you know, things like, you know, Joe and those folks that started the whole neighbors helping neighbors, whatever that was after that, after Hurricane Milton and stuff like that. I mean, that's that's what it was like. Yeah,
there were quarrels back in the day when I was younger and stuff like that, but, you know, if your neighbor needed help, it didn't really matter. you know, we still help you. So, that's >> that's kind of where we come from. Um >> Jeff, if you're still there, uh thank
you for your time. I mean, as I as I explained, we had a conversation and you know, we tried an experiment and you know, I don't didn't quite work how we hoped it would work and we got to pivot and because we're running a a business
that doesn't stop, right? So, we we got to keep adjusting and moving and I think we did a lot of adjusting tonight as Anita said and I think we're we're going on in a positive direction and I'm going to stop because it is 10:23 and I think we can get out of here between before 10:30. So, thank you everyone and uh you
Hello. >> All right, Vice Mayor Sud. >> Yes, thank you. Um, can you hear me? Okay. I hope I'm not on mute again. All right. I think I want to close with sever uh several specific actions that uh I believe the town should also be
thinking about moving forward. First, I want to recognize progress on transparency. The inactive Bov RV Park project has now been removed from the town's active development listings. I thank acting town manager Valerie Oaks
for taking this concern seriously. I also I'm also asking staff uh and council to direct the staff uh in the future workshop or so forth establish a consistent written policy so that withdrawn abandoned or inactive
applications are removed from the active uh project page or clearly identified as inactive uh while the public record remain properly preserved. Second, I would uh we need some clarity regarding law enforcement. Uh PBSO provided their
legal opinion supporting its position that the town remains responsible for supervising and controlling law enforcement services within its boundaries. I received a troubling communication from a resident who want to stay anonymous but reported two
burglaries in approximately $20,000 in losses and serious safety concern near equestrian trails. I cannot independently verify every allegation, but these concerns cannot be ignored. I request a written plan for from the town
attorney and I don't know if he will do it now with 30 days and his two weeks whatever PTO but explaining our law enforcement options um for example uh what is the risk of continuing without
dedicated arrangement and the plan must answer a basic question how will town enforce its ordinances and public safety regulations when enforcement requires a sworn law enforcement officer and what are our uh state requirements based on PBSO's
uh response. Third, the port hole repairs uh must continue on North Road and throughout the town while larger paving projects are being planned and uh I'm asking the staff to follow through on the prior discussions about publicly
posting their uh pothole schedules um and mowing schedules and so forth which they posted. Thank you for that. And uh residents should be able to report, but also uh our staff who's out on the road should be also reporting uh those issues
publicly to us so we know that they already know a pothole or a flooding or some issue exist. And finally uh before the final budget hearing I asked the town hall to prepare a practical cost reduction plan um because budget season
is already in the middle and we are a little bit running behind. And uh finally I'm uh disturbed by the inconsistent enforcement of meeting rules. At a prior meeting our mayor said a member of the public not to address an individual council member by name and
instead to address the entire council. and today she let uh a a public member directly address me by name without objection and I was then shut down when I attempted to respond. So I think the rule must equally apply to everyone regardless of who's speaking or which
council member is being addressed. Selective enforcement creates an appearance of favoritism. So I'm asking for uh council to pay attention no matter who is in power, who is not. You cannot let the minority um voices be enforced in a selective fashion and let
everybody have the standard and decorum to uh speak and share their inputs. Finally, I like the idea that Joe said about recognizing the community members, but I think we should also uh thank our staff who works behind the scene responding to emergencies, our police
officers, our town staff addressing drainage and road issues. So u I think it should be a transparent process so that it's not based on politics or personal relationships and and there are nonprofits out there who do this kind of work. We can support them. We can give
them space and uh there is a reason why government and nonprofit and all the public private partnerships each have a space in the in the democracy like us. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And
over to you madame mayor. Thank you. And uh I think that as as we move forward and and we continue to to build on the public trust and coming together as a council, I I'm sure we'll find that um
the civility continues to improve and I apologize if it was it was abrupt. Uh agenda item 15 is is merely a recap of my meeting along with uh manager I guess technically now interim manager
uh Miss Oaks and public works director uh Craig Lowour with uh county mayor uh Sarah Baxter and some of her folks. Um do do any of you have any questions on anything in that meeting recap? Yeah, I I have a question.
>> Okay. >> I was at a um candidate forum the other night and uh Mayor Baxter promised that within two months, so that would be about a month and a half now, there would be equestrian crossings on
Okchobee Boulevard. Um my question is are we following what engineering I mean are we following the plan that was submitted with the TPA grant or or the I know that a lot of work has been done by like the rec gag
committee and you know we had the design of the TPA. I just want to make sure that a safe design is being followed. >> Okay. Hold hold on. Uh there was no agreement as far as those. Um we were anticipated that we were going to pay
for them. That's what was suggested. So we have no money for that. So I'm not quite sure um unless uh Mayor Baxter has found funding from their end what that would even look like. >> Okay. Well, that's she promised it that they would be installed within two months of the meeting, which was about a
week and a half ago. So I was like, "Okay, great. But what design are we following?" So, you know, >> sounds like you're on it. Yes. I believe there was some scale back suggested by the county um uh engineer, Mr. Ricks, who was there. I would defer to staff on
that, but there was no funding um on our end and there was no suggested funding in that meeting. So, I would say that's a campaign promise. >> Okay. Just sh just making sure. Okay. >> Yep. That would be my understanding. >> Just curious.
Thank you. >> Yes. Yes. Um I I'm curious. Um has staff taken any direction on food trucks? Um I don't know if Karen's still there. Um but uh I know that we had talked earlier about food trucks. I see somebody
shaking a head. >> She's still there. Karen, do you have anything to say? Um if there's any insight into the food truck issue. I don't I don't see her on the list any longer. admin. >> She's admin. Okay.
>> All right. She She can come back. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. >> Here we go. Sorry. I was on mute. Um I did talk with actually Jeff quite a bit ago. We were talking because it constantly comes up. We have people who bring it up. So if it is the desire of
the council, I have no problems. we can put it on like a discussion item if you'd like me to bring forward just you know what others are doing or some regulations that are out there or you know something along those lines mayor if that's what you're looking for. >> I I think before you bring it to us
maybe um with the new council legal council coming on board they could uh look into it and possibly provide some direction for uldc to move this forward. Um I think that we need to act on it sooner rather than later. And I do know there are some state um preeemptions in
there uh that we have to be aware of. So as long as um we have consensus among council to >> um deal with some of those. Yes. Online counsel. >> You you need to stop some of the food
trucks that pop up in the in the stands. Yeah. I mean, there's ones all weekend long. There's the same guys selling aderondac chairs out front of Red Barn in the right away. And there's the watermelon guys and all those other >> I'm not even talking about the popup guys. I'm talking about the permanently
placed food trucks. >> Yeah. Well, th those two. >> Yeah. >> No, go for it. >> Vice Mayor Sue, do you have a a direction as well >> regarding food trucks? >> Yes.
Well, I I would like to request a little more data to see what the issues are. What >> Okay. So, we have direction to to have staff move forward with it. So, yes, Karen, if you could uh bring that back at another time. >> Just two seconds. >> Yeah. Do you want me to bring it to the
because I can put it on their next meeting agenda? >> Sure. >> Okay. You got it. >> The issue with Okchobee is if it's in the county right away. >> Oh, I understand. >> We can't do that. I was just putting it out there. >> Yeah, but that's not where the food truck. No, that's the the food trucks. Another way you have food trucks sitting
on the side of the road. We can't Yeah. >> All right. Um I I think we had talked in the past about BTRs only being issued if they were on property that allowed the the zoning that allowed that use. So I see BTRs continuing to come up. I see
BTRs. I've gotten reports of people who paid for BTRs getting reminders that they need to pay for their BTRs. So this is for me another issue much like the RV thing that just is justification for staff to say I'm doing stuff. Um so I
think council as a whole needs to look at the whole BTR thing, the cost of it versus administering it, the the potential legal uh concerns about um issuing these to people who don't have the land use that allows it. um giving
them some kind of feeling that they have been given permission to operate even though I know the form says no. Um so as we move forward, maybe not through this budgeting um push that we've got coming ahead of us, but I'd like to see this
come forward. And lastly for me, I would like to seriously talk about the heavy truck traffic. Um it's not just the sod farm. Those of us who live near the sod farm can tell you it was about every 20
minutes all weekend long with the largest flatbed that a semi can haul with about eight rolls of sod on it. So, can we limit the length of the flatbeds they can use? They tear the fence down at the corner of that neighbor's property when they make the turn because
they're too long. Um, weight limiting, how can we impact that? So, I'd like to see some discussion on off-site impacts of these large it it's Altman farms. It's the Assad people. It's it I understand it is a reality of
highintensity agriculture and but we do have that ability and our roads are not roads that can handle this sort of heavy not just heavy traffic as far as volume but but literally heavy. So, and then >> thing is you never heard it complain about Alman's the decades they've been
here and these folks have been here for what 5 years. >> Well, they're like everybody complains about them. >> They they are a lot. >> Yes. But Alman's is not as far north on the road, right? They have a very short distance from Okachobee, so they impact
a lot less people. >> So, um I'd like to see that coming forward as well. Um, I'd like to again officially thank Jeff for his time in the town and I'd like to thank um, uh, interim manager uh, Oaks on all our hard
work to date and um, being willing to continue to try to round the and herd the cats. I appreciate it. And we have a Florida League of Cities meeting next week and uh, hopefully we'll come back with some some interesting suggestions
for us moving forward. And I'd like uh a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> All right, we've got a motion and a second to adjurnn. All those in favor? >> I All right. Motion passes 5. Thank you.