##VIDEO ID:mHiBjktgvdE## all right we are now live knew Which Way return the time is now 606 I would like to call the unified Land Development code Review Committee to order Monday September 16th 20124 at 6:06 pm at this time we are going to have the swearing in of committee members Joe cisano and Paul Coleman you have your oats in front of you so if you would just repeat after me I your name do solemnly swear and air affirm iir that I will support protect and defend the Constitution that I will support protect and defend the Constitution and government of the United States and the State of Florida and government of the United States and the State of Florida and the charter of the town of lockah hatche groves and the Charter of the town of lock grov that I am duly qualified to hold office that I am duly qualified to hold office under the constitution of the State of Florida under the constitution of the State of Florida and the charter of the town of locki groves and the charter of the town of Locke Groves and I will well and faithfully and that I will well and Faithfully perform the duties of Committee Member perform the duties of Committee Member upon which about to enter upon which I am now about to enter at this time you have been sworn in congratulations also at our last um at our last ulc meeting on August 12th Joe sisana was selected as the chairperson by your fellow committee members and Paul Coleman was selected as the vice chair do you accept these positions if not we I regretfully de decline being chair okay but I would like to pass it to Paul who is much more qualified first if possible I thought we okay you want to do call Let's do let's do roll call okay at this time I'll do the roll call Committee Member Joe cisano present Committee Member Paul Coleman present Committee Member Robert Austin present Committee Member Robert Sullivan is absent at this time Committee Member car plant here we have a COR to proceed and why don't we do the pledge of the allegiance before we move on to the business portions of the item at this time we'll have the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all and at this time we'll go back to your acceptance of your roles and if you do not wish to serve in those roles we'll need to um we'll need a vote by the board to select the new chair and vice chair so we just make a motion to switch chair seats to get a second and a vote first first first why don't um Joe uh if if you offici if you want officially decline the chairmanship um why don't you do that on the record I would like to thank my fellow committee members for their confidence in me but I don't share that so I um officially decline at for this session that that opens up the position of the chairperson so I'd like to make a motion then to make Paul Coleman the chairman of the committee at this time we have a motion to make Paul Coleman the committee chairman do we have a second second seconded by Karen plant Committee Member all in favor I all opposed that motion passes unanimously you can't hold both offices Paul so I respectfully declin the the the seat of two seats Vice chair Vice chair yes okay and I and I nominate um Joe cilio okay Committee Member Paul Coleman has declined the position of Vice chair chairperson as he has been selected to be the chairperson of this committee and at this time do we have a second the second was by Committee Member plant all in favor all opposed that motion passes unanimously thanks guys and I just heard from Mr Sullivan and he's unfortunately not going to be able to make it today okay now it is a pleasure of the board would you guys like to move forward with your new chairperson at this time or would you like to wait till the next Council uh next committee meeting would be like lead the agenda oh we don't we do not need to shuffle seats tonight um saying to lead the agenda but yeah we'll turn it over to Mr Coleman at this time we'll turn it over to you Mr Coleman to lead the agenda starting with the approval of the agenda um I honestly haven't had chance to it's not it's not it's not a long or difficult uh agenda unless you all want to add to it and you have one item so do I have a motion to approve the agenda I make so moved second second all in favor I that motion passes unanimously corre and we'll move forward oh okay um the first item on the agenda the only item on the agenda um what we did was we gave you the rural Vista guidelines um that were adopted actually prior to the town becoming a town this is a document that was created by uh the rural Vista Committee of the lockah hatchee Groves landowners Association and it predates incorporation um the reason we're still riant on this document is that the rural Vista guidelines are referenced in a couple places in the the um ulc um in section uh 5045 and 41030 and 8075 and there is a reference that uh projects are not supposed to go forward unless they meet the rural of this guidelines as adopted the the issue has been and there's also similar references in the comprehensive plan this document um or a substitute document has never been formally adopted by uh the town so it is referenced and people use it as a a reference but it has they don't teeth it has not yet been adopted um and there are I will say and I I want to go over the document with you um it's I think it conveys a a a clear message but as far as it being guidelines one of the the problems is that uh we would want to get a little more specific with respect to to guidelines um because the idea of um architectural guidelines or U the these kind of guidelines is to to give people good understanding of what um they are supposed to to do and a mechanism for achieving that I think there there have been attempts and references at various meetings um by the the council when when they're approving projects um talking about the the rural Lista guidelines um I'm not going to we're not going to comment on whether or not they've been totally successful in that um or or not uh what we're going to do is try to review them um and see whether these things still resonate within the the community um and if if they do or something like them does um we're going to try to get them into a position where they're a little more definitive um and can be adopted that's our task not necessarily tonight tonight it's going to be uh did you guys read them and if you didn't that's okay um but uh have have you all had a chance to to review these and and read them yeah most part okay yeah I help write some of it so well you didn't get you didn't get uh credit no he didn't it's all there there was that committee was fluctuating with with attendance of people for a long time so all right so well where are we gonna start because I in in looking over this it is first of all half of these pictures aren't even of building in our area and they're a little outdated oh that's that's one of that's one of the issues new Twist on Rural or a new Twist on Victorian or yes that's that's is that where we're going that's one of the things that we need to to do and and see where we're at okay um let's let's start in the the beginning okay um if you look at the uh first page of the real writing which is um page seven of your agenda page three of the actual item um it really talks about the the community I'm not going to read it uh to you um but the there's definitely a sens in in this page that moxah Hatchi grov wanted to be separate and apart from uh the rest of the surrounding communities um and wanted to be unique and they emphasize this idea of it being a very rural um Community now these guidelines have never been intended to apply to Residential Properties which is obviously the vast majority of what we have here in the town they are to apply to non-residential um development so uh we're going to we're going to focus on the non-residential development but I fir think the first question is um do you still buy into you as committee members um do you do you still buy into this community being unique rural all those kind of things is this a is this A continuing Fair statement I I would say yes I mean I would say I would say that if if we don't buy into that we don't maintain that then you know theoretically the state can come back and take our Charter away from us because that's how we got to be an independent Town inside of palmach County that's how we got to incorporate was because of our unique rule character I mean that's in the incorporation Doctrine it's all part of you know before they've changed a little bit since then but I mean you know that's and I think that's what resonates with most of the uh the populace right now I mean that's that's a great point I just feel like we've Fallen really short of the mark on a lot of our bigger projects which from scares me in the fact that people are going to just continue to say one thing and do another and if this is going to help that's that's one of the things we're going to try to do is get more definition and uh okay get something actually approved so we are we tearing these apart tearing this apart section by section or you guys have some highlighted NOS that first first of all because this is you know basically our introductory we had an introductory meeting and then uh we had two of you absent um and so what I want to do is just go through this document so that we understand it um get some feedback from you on it it um and then at our next meeting we'll try to start getting crafting something uh that can be adopted but right now I just wanted us to be familiar with uh with this um and we'll talk about its implementation in the future and can we do a little housekeeping along the way yeah sure okay so we don't have one L dirt roads anymore no I just saying well the there are there are many differences within the community if you go if you go back and you look at um the variety um you know uh there was there was no mention of the type of businesses in this in this first page as to what would be there all these you know it was small homebased businesses um it was gardening fishing it was really referring to the residential aspect of the the town um and I'm not I'm not sure that I'm not sure that I think one one of the things that has occurred here and one of the issues that we have in town um is that right now if you look at the areas that are formally authorized to be commercial not not that nasty potential commercial word but um the uh the properties that are actually designated commercial within our comp plan and our um uh and our ulc our our zoning map they're developed or for the most part you know or uh subject to the mupd um and there's portions of that that are are not developed but you know they're out there and they're one of the things I I don't want us to get into a situation where we raise controversy and say well what about this area or that area um and and say does it work there or not um but the I one of the questions is whether or not the rural Vista guidelines should apply equally everywhere um and I'll just you know I don't want to commit heresy here um and I'm I'm not suggesting uh anything but there is a difference between Southern Boulevard and okachobee Boulevard not that okachobee has commercial approval mind you but you understand what I'm I'm saying and and and so uh the one of the things looking for input on is we've got all of our designated commercial right now is along Southern okay and is that uh does rural Vista guidelines or the adherence to to them what is what's that mean how's that look um so I'm not trying to to guide you anywhere I'm just trying to throw out there are those are the issues um that you do have to to deal with and I don't it's not Apparent from this document that when folks wrote it they were thinking about southern maybe they were but it's not apparent here so no the thought behind this was because at that point in time we were unincorporated Palm Beach County and when developers would go before the County Commission um you know it was there was no we were kind of an afterthought as as the you know the town people or the the C the residents here you know land owners Etc we were we were kind of an afterthought and it was it was you know how can we set forth some guidelines that say this is what we want and where we are and before you go approving a project I mean a good case in point is the Everglades Farm Equipment building that building they came back to us multiple times the shelors when they were building that building they came back to us multiple times with their renderings Etc how they're what they're putting on the outside of the building and went above and beyond to make sure that it fell with it within this document and within what we we you know so when it went before the County Commission they weren't going to have us there in drove saying no don't build this you know in our area um you know um some some plots fell along the Wayside with the moving of you know the addition of Crestwood Etc and the change of fome whatever but it it was always been a blanket statement for the town to the best of my knowledge um it it was never meant to be okay just in this specific area or just in this specific area um because I don't think there was any doubt in anybody's mind that at some point there was going to be something going down Southern Boulevard yeah you know so you I I think as far as as where it's pointing I think it's pointing at townwide I don't think we' you know you would say oh we're going to do this over here and we're going to do this over here I agree you know I don't I think it's it's a townwide type of feel type of look is is you know you have any other you have any long as we're able to keep the development on Southern that's why I always say let's give them Southern I love the old town southern Victorian styling but we need to give them Southern to have our commercial dat so that our taxes aren't going through the roof I heard people at the last meeting were complaining about some stuff for commercial but then at the same time we're also complaining about the millage if we don't have nice tax B if we have the lowest paid employees we don't ni nice tax base our taxes are going to go up and we want to keep them up F to because I agree with that we don't want to split in our town have gas station on Oobi everything but we have to work with the developers on Southern if we can get them to give us some small Southern field some of the Aesthetics here and you know like they did at everglaze I think we should work with them on that and you know tax Fates going for us that's gonna save the town so um Everglades if you go if you go along if you go along uh Southern within Town you've got you got you've got Everglades uh um and then you've got the um medical building uh next to us here you've got this building which is nice yeah one works yeah and the the I can't see it the medical building I think it's got like a sort of a porch front to it type of thing I mean that's that's what the easy um attempt to to meet the standard is that's you know sort of what this you have the overhang you have a porch porch like area um and and youve got some uh yeah nobody's saying it's a it's a 712 pitch roof on the whole building it could be a maner style facade on the front whatever we I think people understand that but it's you know it's it's a matter of of you know materials used I mean I think that's where this document really right kind gets in as materials colors and foliage Etc let's not forget parking and Landscaping because Everglades did it right to the right Everglades did it right two rows in front that's it and everything off to the side everything else we've let happen on Southern is all parking in front it's yeah you know I mean there has to be a well and and that's one of the things that um I want to do with the discussion is you know the you guys tell me tell us where you think it kind of met the mark and where it fell back so that we can distinguish what the differences are between the the developments so um the you've got the I think the the next commercial building after the park and uh some vacant lands um it's all vacant land well yeah for the time yeah is like the the vet clinic that's that's out there um and that probably pre predated this effort is my recollection and then you've got the Palm Palms West Plaza which I think predated I know predated oh yeah Palms West Plaza predate this I mean the the boonies was called The Hitching Post at that point so but it doesn't mix the it doesn't mix the miss the mark too badly that's what I was going to say is um between the vet clinic and the Palms West Plaza do you feel tell let's talk about them one at a time the vet clinic um no it looks like a house okay looks a house all right it looks like a house it it you know yeah they' they put a a white three board fence around it so it looks you know more whatever but I mean you know yeah I think it was a bank at one time yeah or something I think yes it was and I'm assuming that if we if there's no comment in opposition that there's General agreement with the statements that are being made I don't want to poll everybody on this but um the the Palms West Plaza uh Joe you indicated that you think that I I think it could use some lipstick but yeah it's I think as far as the design of it design with signage just too much signs too many signs all over the place no yeah with the that's a that's a that's a ulc issue on its own is is sign criteria Etc and then the enforcement of it is a whole different it it does it it it does come into these these guidelines but I do agree it's a it's a separate it is a separate issue but when we keep on discussing things I think the the question is going to be um do banners and those kind of things do they fit in with the rural Vista I mean I can tell you historically you had that Marquee sign out front right that big tall Marquee sign that's what was there yeah and then every every store had a little wooden hanging out in front and that was kind of what it was and then you know until that was built and then incorporation da D things are kind of you know run a mock so that was and so again this is another reason why we went the route we went most of the people wanted to is because you know we had no no say at the county level it was you know it was just County county building code so County zoning code so that's why we're here and that and one of the things you have to remember is with those some of those older established areas they are the ones that are going to be redeveloped prior to uh you know the stuff on um Southern and B you know that's just brand new and and so the this already has uh the commercial designation and um at some point in time you know buildings run their useful life and you have a Redevelopment occur um and so once again this is a this is where the guidelines would apply well I think this is a good step to to to go over this and point it up and you know polish it up and and actually Cod codify it if that's the word we're looking to use you know to to get it in in a position where you know pz andb or the council or whoever can say no you don't meet this criteria come back you know go back to the drawing board come back and talk to us later um because this is what this is what's here or they're going to come to the drawing table not expecting to change or whatever do this whatever XYZ they're going to say this is this is what we want and if you don't do this you know you can't build here type of thing and you know but when it says you know oh well look to the ru Vista guidelines well that's what they are they're guidelines until you make them more than that so I kind of commend going over this you know what I like about this building is they like the Royal Vista says is they worked around the tree canopy too where some people are just knocking them all down they're leaving what's naturally growing and what's native to the area instead of planting a bunch of palm trees in their place that this building as you remember was the Chamber of Commerce building but it was built on County land and then it comes to the town so they had the advantage of um not worrying about land costs yeah right I'm just leave native trees Absol absolutely I understand that desire I just you know it it uh we have we do have that built-in Advantage there um AG I'm sorry no because sometimes you just can't leave the day and stuff there to design but you can have them replant and not right you said not put palm trees put some oak trees or slash pine or something yeah or maintain preserve areas within of the big BMS because I like the Publix at Westlake how they did that nice BM out front because you know the Publix is back there and they know those stores are back there but that's a nice burm and foliage keeping that well yeah that that's something does uh to talk about is um you know where you have seen things in the area that uh that people did adhere more to to what you're looking for um AG Supermarket is the the next building um that's an old one but that again you know it was honestly that's a rebuild of a building there was you know um it's not there anymore but lock sat Bait and Tackle was is in the Palms West Plaza back in the day where the global Mart is and before it was in before the plaza was built it was in this ramshackle Little Shack next to the ramshackle Shack of A&G Market you know listen I rode my bike there when I was a kid and I got grave kneehigh there all the time that was like my thing because I live tenth of a mile North but you know exactly um but you know but when they built that building again there was no guideline right there was not even a guideline this wasn't a this this was a you know thought in somebody's mind you know so they went to the county I want to build a storefront two you know you know this thing's falling in the county actually may even came and said we're going to condemn this place or whatever and they said you know the owner you know who was there I I don't know if he's still with us or not but you know he wanted to build and he built a store with two more storefronts next to him you know and what do you do when you do that you build a square box with a flat deck roof maybe a little parit wall in the front and some signs that's a typical commercial building you know so there's nothing to stop that from happening so right you know I think again I think this is a great idea and and that's that's the that's the other important thing to to remember is that old doesn't mean rural well new owner say they get a new owner and they want to change do something else in a building can we have them put like a nice porch on it with a roof just to dress it up a little more southern town yes still the same square box but that's what I was saying when you look at the when you look at those older buildings if we establish um the guidelines and we adopt them then yes the Redevelopment would have to comply with the new guidelines you're not you know locked into the old building what does it say in this binder about substantial Improvement and the threshold you got to cross to have to have to to be able to enforce that you know what I'm saying because like you deal with yeah I'm a building inspector for a living so excuse me um you know you deal with Ada Improvement when you're when you're remodeling an old building you know if it doesn't hit substantial Improvement they don't have to bring certain things up or they you know there's gives and takes that what they have to bring up based on the cost of the project yeah you know what I'm saying so so so one of the standards that we need to think about um and put in there is at what point in time does the the redesign in compliance with the the eventual standards come into play um yeah that one's tricky too because it's right there next to the post office and what a mess that whole well in the post the post office as long as it remains a post office there nothing you can do about it um what I'm talking about is the parking lot so if we ask this guy to do any improvements he's gonna lose of his parking space yeah who knows maybe when when you're looking at the the future and uh you know will there be a post office yeah right so yeah and um and I the the BP gas station I think is the the next thing Shell Shell oh shell I'm sorry um and just old yeah it it's old and once again the reason I bring that one up is when we're thinking about the guidelines um gas stations are are different there are things that we want absolutely to to have we want that covering over our heads it has to be high enough to allow trucks and so forth to to come in um so when you establish uh guidelines and thinking about that particular use um you want to be thinking about okay how do how does a a gas station fit within uh the criteria how do you get that I mean you you know those are those are things that that present a a challenge but it's a real real thing and we're not we're not saying especially with an existing use that you're not not going to be a gas station in the in the future so the gas stations have to be in inspected by the EPA on a regular basis like um there is a there is a state agency but uh that does um do inspections of we would check the tanks for leaking and stuff yeah there there's yeah they they maintain the lust so if I'm sorry I'm just gonna spitball for a minute so if they had to make a repair or something on their tank would that have to come to us no okay no um and then we get to the the new development um and you've got Culver the car wash Aldi AutoZone and waa I think along that disaster disaster like how the C guy Parts his truck on that BM because you can't have a sign had a sign over there by the bushes but it's covered up by the U hasn't been developed yet right next to them yeah and there a sign right there that whole place has to be rethought as far as parking and so dangerous parking colors blind spot coming out of WW you gota make a left that's horrible it's horrible should be a four-way stop there should be left only right only anyway so if I if I if I said that ended up looking more corporate than rural it looks lazy is what it looks it looks like every other it looks like a a plated attempt at making some people happy and still selling our commercial real estate okay um that out loud now now mind you uh the food and everything is really good and a big service to all of us but yeah architecturally um and it um and then you've got the orthopedic uh building that's going up um behind there um the orthopedic bu yeah I think yeah it looks like a hotel yes no it looks like a little hotel it does look like a little hotel yeah well it yeah it it's an orthop I think it's gonna be an orthoped surge country or to me no no it looks like driving down the road oh there's a hotel well in um I don't know how these places have gotten approved I don't know well I think uh if we go back to there was I think we go back to what was said at the beginning we want to try and not be um as pointed right well I'm no I'm I'm just saying we have a focus and I'm just you know yeah you put me in charge you know I'm just saying I think we want to you know listen I think anybody who watches these tapes and has listened to any any of the four of us talk or Mr Sullivan um he's not here I don't want to speak for him but I think if anybody has ever heard any of the of us talk they know how we feel about things and the direction we think things are so and and what I'm getting from you is on those they missed the they missed the Mark um and they missed the gallery on the now the the the public Center um T closer yeah well it's got It's got two I think there's two components to it you have the public Center The public's building and the the attached buildings and then you've got the out buildings right um and so on the out buildings um did they hit the market all the Wendy's the Dunkin Donuts those um so but on the but on the public Center itself and that those shops that was yeah but I think the the issue comes in so that developer came in this is my own two cents that developer came in and yes sold out with those out Parcels whatever Public's got approved so now that the the the mud right it's not a PUD it's an mud right I think so yeah am I correct I I want to be correct so if I'm wrong please correct me um the mud got approved so when it got approved and they were approve for the AL Parcels then you know Wendy's came in and 7-Eleven came you know they they came in and it was just kind of I don't think it was as much of a forethought as it was when the mud was getting approved to to make sure that these elevations as they were coming in and they were coming through pcnb which you know was a whole different scenario than what we have today um at the in the office level um so I think it kind of got away from us right yeah you know and then on the other side of the street I I think it came in and it was like boom boom boom and you know yeah Wawa to me most wahas look a little country to my you know you can you can feel it a little bit the other stuff I don't know what country no you can you can you can you can really grab you can grab some aspects I mean if I had to give a consolation to an attempt at that corner it would be Wawa it would not you know it would not be you know he Wawa was originally a farm operation W wall it was cows and you know little little stores they didn't get into the gas business right away but um okay I I wanted to go through that so we all have a a sense of what's out there um and can you know identify where we think things are and the the sense I get from uh the the committee is that as much as possible on remaining development future development future Redevelopment um along Southern um you want to try to hit those rural Vista guidelines once we get them established the fair yeah no I listen you can go to many towns across this great nation and people have stuck to their guns and and stuff looks the way they want it to look in that town heck Wellington before I think was even Village of Wellington you know you couldn't build a business in Wellington and use your colors Checkers was aqua and pink and white when I worked there at 18 years of age 19 years of age because Wellington said you're not painting stuff red and black and white here you're not painting stuff that these are our colors and that's the only colors you're going to use I mean heck over in the saddle trails and just on the residential side of things you couldn't build a house out there if it was under 2,000 square feet well yeah you couldn't build a barn without a house and there was there was the old wet committee back in the development and all just saying just as a as a an example I mean there's parts of Davey before Davey went crazy there was Davey and it little Podunk like you go down even the little strip mall looked like a little like a little West you know you walked down the MH the little yeah had railings and stuff and you know yeah the back door was a okay cor yeah you know so I mean it's to to think that it's not possible to think that you know that we can't like I said polish this up and and set this forth and and yeah it's approved and it's people are held to a standard to think that that can't happen I don't believe that I think you can it just you know a faade on the building isn't really hard much more expensive yeah so I agree bunch of bat and board when we're when when we're looking through I'm not going to go through this line by line but on page four one of the the concepts is um and I've heard it reiterated today is that existing tree canopy will you'll try to preserve that as much as as possible um one of the things that I think has has been missed in most of the developments is The Pedestrian um connectivity uh you know there's um not internal sidewalks um there's not pedestrian Crossings and things like that so um you know and I don't no benches no trash cans It's Tricky we have a horse tra right okay so um it is that is the idea of it not just being um someplace that you would drive to even though you would probably drive there but internally that internal pedestrian circulation is that something that uh is part of the rural Vista guidelines to you and something that we should continue to have or uh do you find it unnecessary people walking to these places well what you have what I'm talking about is um when you're walking within them um and specifically thinking about uh the area um the the mupd there you know walking from Wawa to uh Culver or Aldi or across or or or across to the um the new Orthopedic uh building that's that's going up those kind of things I don't I don't know that there's an internal sidewalk system no there's no pedestrian connectivity between those buildings I think there was the original onset of that develop there was there was greencape there and not I'm not talking Retention Ponds there was greencape there was a communal community area that was there I mean I don't have we don't have the map I mean h i mean and and I'm not I'm not no I'm just saying but you you want you wanted to kind of know where things have fallen and whatever I'm just saying you know if you if you were to look at the proposed site plan and look at what is now today I think you're going to see a lot of different and some of those were walking spaces you know like sidewalks ETA yeah and and I'm what I wanted to what I really want to know is is that is that pedestrian connectivity within a commercial area is that something uh that we should strive for well I think if we ask more of these buildings within the rural guidelines to provide a porch and somewhere for people to at least make it the length of the building within some sort of secure fashion then jogging across a little Street might not be so necessary sidewalks you know something like that but it would be nice if it was yeah if there was a designated place to go up and down you don't have to jump a curb you know trash cans but again if we hold them to porticos and porches and places especially you know for the rainy season Christ dang we have a lot of water it's not and he and it'd be nice to be able to wait it out then run to your car do you necessarily need a sidewalk to do that no but it would be nice if you didn't have to jump over a median I think you're speaking something more like along the lines like Meisner Park right Abacoa things like that there's a I know I know but that's I think when he's saying internal walkway stuff like that it's kind of you know when you say that that's why I'm picturing like a you know like an interior circle like you're going around you know no I'm just I'm I'm really talking about just walking from the the orthopedic center over to Culver's that type of thing I ride my bike over there and it is difficult getting from building to building what Joe said makes sense to have a porch so that you could at least walk the length of the building before you get in traffic again whereas right now you have to go into traffic to get across to the other buildings yeah I can see a sidewalk and a crosswalk you across the street like that but nothing some Greenery or something um yeah trees tree would be nice some native large trees more than two inches thick B no I I bring it up because it is you know and a place to park my bike one one of the statements in the one of the statements in here is pedestrian and amenities such as walkways porches benches and boardwalks are designed able features in any proposed project so what's that street called again which what one behind W what they call should be Tangerine tangerin avocado avocado I think it's I could see maybe sidewalks running across that where you can walk out walk down the sidewalks behind there how do we name how they get named avocado looking at the other day I go what I thought this should be Tangerine but Tangerine is the next one because if you leave Wawa it's better to go to tangerine to make the left on rather fight all the and let's remember let's remember these guidelines you know they're going to affect the future development and Redevelopment so it's that concept right now rather than thinking about a very particular project which is already approved but ex was on that street that would connect all of them like from behind and not necessarily go right through them so you can come out in the back and just go down the sidewalk to any of the businesses there and but that was the goal when we talked first about Publix and all that we wanted the parking behind the building and to have the buildings up front with connectivity and walkways and chair and benches and a beautiful thing and all the parking in the back so in going forward if there's more of a feel like a Main Street sort of a yes Community you know like a small town then yeah for sure sidewalks and P I think the intention was to have the parking in the rear and the building more toward the road toward the road so when you drive by you see the building that looks you know that might even not even been the the actual front door but you know and you you know kind of parking up kind of like um What's this called uh Royal Pines Crossing or Pines crossing right here where Costco is you know yes there is some parking in front of say Starbucks and Jamba Juice and stuff like that but you know most of the parkings in the back it's not all loaded to the front I know it's hard with the Publix don't get me wrong I know it's hard I mean then you need less signage less liage less you need less everything that was sort of our push I'm sure nobody told you that I I mean I don't know what direction you're going but I I it might be beneficial for us to just we could start hitting this hitting just going down one at a time on these on through the table of contents sure I think we I think we all agree on the feel unless there's you saw in here that where we could actually go over the de development standards Etc mission statement on our own time and come back with something if we find something for the next meeting but maybe we could you know start with you know I don't know and just go down you these these bullet points in the table of contents we can hit exteriors and see what we think what you what your thoughts that's fine let's let's uh let's go for it that way yeah you know what I'm saying yeah so I mean we I think we all know what the mission statement was right so do you guys agree you know consensus lot of the stuff I actually like I mean I like the old stuff yeah I think if we if we kind of use this as a guideline because I mean no offense to anybody but I don't think we want to sit on this doing this for six months no we we there's stuff there's stuff coming there's always stuff coming more and more stuff coming somebody want to change this direction somebody want to change that so I I I think the the you know if we can get through this you know and then we can start we dig into other things too because you know it take six months to do this well we're gonna get to signs at 14 well yeah we'll get there I mean I don't know what what's our lot of time for this meeting I'd like to my goal is always to to have a meeting uh over in two hours because I think most of us that's our pension span at best I'm a night out I can keep going me too these guys been here all day though um all right so um the the next few pages are projects with rural character um I mean you got the it all seems to to be front porchy kind of stuff is the emphasis on on that on the on the photographs there um and the roof line the roof right yes some some sort of architectural roof feature that that makes it look ranchy or look like a a building I understand that because Big Dog Ranch did a nice job yeah I mean really there was a lot of push with big dog and whatever but the design of her building is definitely I mean well it's Big Dog Ranch right so I mean there's definitely a theme there she's going for uh with that building or with those buildings you know so Big Dog Ranch is another place that we say they got it right I think this is Big Dog Ranch isn't it the first page one is that it the first page one isn't that Big Dog Ranch looks like it other than the excessive buildings no I don't think so no I don't think so well it looks a lot like it with the popped out FR Port yeah but this is all committee this all really predates everything well this is a lot of this is Jupiter Farms like this McDonald's Jupiter Farms I'm pretty sure things like that I mean but just to say you look at that McDonald's you know that they built in Jupiter Farms and it you know looks like somebody took a old farmhouse and Old Farm and turned it into a McDonald's yeah yeah you know and typically McDonald's is a flat roof right with a bunch of equipment on top no no no visible screen you know visual screen anything like that um like a like the Cs I wasn't pointing fingers talking you said it on me sir but I mean yeah look I mean like you go over to the Outback on page um seven they all look like that you know look because Outback maybe I wouldn't pick a green roof it looks a little more key Westy but you know yeah yeah again if you go to a little farm Village somewhere your little farm town and you go down Main Street this is what you're going to see and I think that that's the aspiration of it Cracker Barrel yeah there you go that's a good way to put it Outback is because it's all Outback Australian Branch I know okay but just saying the green roof kind of gives me a Key West you can Vibe you know right saying okay Goa maybe I'm wish ficient me too but yeah I think you know I think that things out yeah and what we want to do with what we want to do with this information is uh then codify or uh more specifically outline what makes those things there instead of a picture uh describe it and and fit it in there um exteriors you all have any comments on on that whether or not that these thoughts really make sense or are necessary feel like I feel like like we don't look some some bricks some I like the blocks I like the what they did on at um Boonies with the plants that are now Rock they didn't that looks right hard playing ship La I mean we could add you could add actually you know lap side like yeah when you talk about brick or brick veneer wood texture material is it's giving alternate materials you know you drive down to Arden and you see in a couple other places they make stucco look like lap siding now so you could you could accomplish it without allowing yeah no bu it could be it could be stuck a finish and it looks like lap siding the idea is that we want to convey the idea is this is what we're looking for right not not just a flat stucco finish right right right right right right so it's the it's it's the texture or the uh the appearance of pattern right it looks like Pary plank it doesn't have to be made out of wood it could be made out of concrete or yeah I mean Aldi is is a textured block yeah that build it's a it's a concrete block that's textured on the fa that's made to look like a open face brick or stone on the outside instead of just being a flat right okay which I think it covers here somewhere and I'd like to not see shingles are we on that yet no we're on exteriors sorry not roof roof is next okay sorry sorry okay ready to talk about roofs must be built to human and a consensus on the exterior yeah I thought yeah no I'm just I'm just double checking yeah I think so and right now we're just you know we're trying to get a concept so that we can draft and and make more fine points so I don't need motions per sec but if we got a consensus go so the roof what do you all think about the roofs actually has a reference for roof this tells them that we want a mixture of it like I would hate to see an all brick building here I don't think that would be rural that would look like up north right red brick yeah like like I'm sorry to go back I jump to I'm going back or all rock that would look like Colorado you see what I mean like can't I like the components as architectural pops and uh you know but I don't I don't know that I'd like an all wood building unless I had a porch either so okay that make sense do you agree with me I mean like I just feel like a all wood or some accent block you want some accent materials in there I honestly think you could take some of the stone out of it and just have it all my own opinion you could have it all lap siding or you have keep the stone to a W's coat minimum that's what I mean we're just plint I'm just saying I don't want to see an all rock building or an all brick building yeah we're not in Montana right just like we wouldn't have a log cabin here yeah but I mean you would have a I guess the idea is too you would you would have a you would have a you could you would have a barn with vertical sighting you know and the whole thing's all wood you know or lap sighting you know and it's all wood there's no stone on it whatsoever you know what I'm saying so I mean I'm just saying I think we require them to have a little bit of architectural H spot building right not just take again that's like when we don't if we're not sort of sticking the screws to them we're going to get more of these boring buildings that look like everywhere else we don't look like Military Trail right well that's I said but if you look at the if you look at the photos that are given if you flip to the roof page and look at those photos that are given for the roof shapes but if you look at all those buildings the the aesthetic design to the front of them right there is no it looks like all lap siding right because they're all boring just saying yeah no I I get what you're saying but I mean so but one hand he said it's not Colorado you know I mean you're not going to go you know that's the thing about here is you got a Melting Pot of different designs everywhere you go you go down to to um Northwood and there's one design of a house and you go down south of there probably the opposite side of that much distance opposite okach you're going to go into the uh well that's houses I I understand that but you're these are all designed after houses and barns yeah so you kind of need a point of reference I guess is my point well the the other thing you have to think about too is if if everybody went with metal roof you know the pitched metal roof is that where what you want to see on a continuous basis right I don't hate it yeah but I think what you were getting I think was the sameness of everything yeah I think but on one hand it's like don't want look exactly the same the other hand it's it's you have to do all metal roofs right I mean I don't I don't mind metal roofs I don't think they all have to look alike no I guess personally I don't personally I don't feel there's a problem with shingle I wouldn't want to see flat tile roofs to be honest with you that's my own person Barrel tiles no me either no Barrel tile if was like Mexican CL I mean it it I don't know it's it's you don't see many of the old no in Florida used to be old flat tiles that were yeah like you know 18 by 18 those kind of things they to buy those real expensive fake slate tiles and put on there I think that's pretty cool sure I'm just waiting for jousy Windows to come back so I mean it's yeah I what we got on Roose gam roll maner whatever that lots of pointy ones is which one the one on the that's is awful one here yes that's just that's multiple Gable roofs in front of every that's what that that's all that is can we like say no on that roof style or is this Roofing just material these are elgible roof designs okay I mean and these are just these are photographic examples they're listed up here and there's descriptions on yeah the next last page well I don't see a maner on here do you no there's not a picture of it but there is in the back there is a little bit what I'm saying there they did give a guide as to what they're talking about I guess in case there was some question somebody thought to put an appendix C in here yeah on on page nine that there is an indication that box-shaped exposed flat roofs concrete flat clay and Barrel tile roofs are not per not permitted so they they did say what they didn't think was in there no no hip on Deck well hip roofs are the favorite of insurance companies because then you're not having a flat side yeah but I don't think when you're dealing with the commercial building of that yeah so hipon hipon flat or deck as they're calling it or it's a maner roof Oh I thought a maner was a barn roof no it's a Gamel it's a Gamel I think I'm saying pronouncing that oh Gambrell Gambrell here P 27 yeah well honestly most around here what everybody calls a maner group is that hipon deck those tow houses that have like little quads like little boxes and it looks like it's got a jingle roof on it but when you get up top it's a flat deck that's what is considered a maner roof around here H um yeah this is a maner roof though because what it does is it changes pitch so yeah that's what makes it a maner but even a it's not here but a Boston hip those are cute roof I mean that's a good looking roof I have Boston hips on my um there's a there was a Boston hip on here somewhere no it's it's a it's a hip roof that has a Gable right in the middle of the hip I'll show there there's one in here I'll show it to this is kind of a maner style with with dormers on that McDonald's yeah oh there go okay trying where is I know I saw a Boston I'm just trying to give you examples oh page five in the middle on the right actually the two in the middle those are both those have Boston hips on each end oh there's more looks like it looks like a gable roof that somebody took a hip about halfway down and made hip first on it yeah yeah yeah this is a Bost and hip that's a dor that's falling 101 for today sorry yeah this that's a Boston hit yeah I have Boston hit so many I with them it's a nice look but yeah if you hit the hipon deck that's on the next page over here I mean it gives the appearance you could call you know what Publix is a hipon deck um or a Gable on deck or whatever because it's got that flat and the parit Wall comes up in the front and they create that facade that's an an easy way to get a developer to give you the front that you're wanting to see your elevation yeah your elev well yeah you know what I'm saying um because I mean reality is when you build these buildings they're behind it this flat rout you're behind it's flat route because if you start building these buildings with I mean again special case welome to death for doing it but you know not everybody's going to come in and build you know a cathedral C ceiling you store you know what I mean or you can't build a Publix with a roof like like Everglades guess is my point it's cost perood no but but right because that's where all their air conditioning units and all that stuff goes most a lot of it right and that's a great use of space and I wouldn't want to take that away from and you have to cool it ex paring lot and all of that so as long as it has the look that correct elevation right and I'm sure that they can with the money and so I would say roof roof lines are are basically you know the criteria is good I didn't get a chance to read the whole yeah the roof must work as a parit to screen Mechanicals yeah materials include shingle metal shingle standing seam corrugated she FY crimp metal metal roofs maybe unpainted or painted color approved by the the rule vtic committee I mean when they submit the plans um can't they submit them and have you know us and Council everybody look them over for compliance especially since we have time and well the I guess the idea of what we're doing is set up the set up this so when pzb looks at it to give their recommendation correct me if I'm wrong give the recommendation to the council it it their guide is is there so they they shouldn't I'm getting this right the theory wouldn't be the process wouldn't be to come to us then PCB then the council it would be to go to PCB and this is pcb's guideline okay right and then it goes to coun am I right yes and it start it's it starts remember with the staff review right of saying okay this is what's expected um some places do Point systems those kind of things and so the staff looks at it and says all right here's why we think this meets or doesn't meet the standard okay that makes sense and and then you know the the the approval is um at the uh at the council level I don't think anybody's going to change that but you know um we're not looking for for another committee to review it but PCB and and Council would have those guidelines to take a look at and criteria where you say okay you you met this because of of this and staff would have something to to look at and say don't want we like this style here could you incorporate that into your building or your roof or well the the the idea the idea of all this is that you give you give The Architects and the planners um who are working for the people who are developing the the property something to to work off so a mark to hit um and you know then you can go from there um through the review process but the the idea is to to put some of these these things into formal guidelines the funny thing is is this thing that say acceptable materials is metal shingle standing seam but names a bunch of metal roofs including copper and then yeah let's make them do that it can be raw or painted okay then box shape exposed flat roofs concrete so and Barrel tile not allowed yeah flat clay and Barrel top it says nothing about a dimensional shingle says nothing about asphal shingle yeah so I in one way or the other no no I mean the the only thing I mean if you were to adopt it it would it's the prohibition um and you know if that had been adopted as a standard you would say well asphalt chal are not mentioned they're not prohibited so they're allowed and asphalt shingles can look a whole bunch of different ways right but the the funny thing is when we started this out right you said there's multiple and you cited some numbers multiple sections in the ulc that say this is supposed to be the guideline as adopted as adopted then we haven't adopted it oh we never officially adopted it that's where that's where the hitch in the in the square box is yeah okay excellent great news so I I I again we're not approving anything tonight but I say we we could add I hate to do it because I like a little variety but I say we add asphalt shingle to the prohibited list to box it all out just make it there's many different types of metal metal roofs are there many commercial buildings that have asphalt shingles huh U maner style ones yeah there some actually there's a big assisted living facility down in no red has the metal metal roof right yeah there's a big assisted living facility down on Southwest 95th I think it is um and it has got the hugest hip roof in a u shape with asphalt shingles on it that you've ever seen and does it look good or bad to you it looks all right no I mean it looks it looks all right it looks like a house I mean listen they do they do their job down there they make things they want look like a house they make it look like a house I mean it's you know and maybe that's what we because it does say something like that around here like roof roof roof portions and pits shall be relative to residential scale so it's are they saying we want it to look like a house is that what that's supposed to be mean I don't know what that means residential scale um it it gener it generally means um not too high and uh depending on the like a tower or a hip on Deck well or or the bul you don't want too much of a bulk um building you know it's so if you look at if you look at the public shopping center okay it's you know it's single story um and the facades out front are you know not huge and and bulky um you could I don't want to name a building around here in town but um if you remember the old uh you ever been seen the old AT&T structures you know that were just big block buildings and then they would have these faux Windows skinny little things and you're going like it's very prison prison industrial kind of look yeah that that's certainly not residential scale you know uh oh I see industrial okay look you want it to not look like a warehouse presidential scale you don't want big box the old big boxes and things like that okay right right that's a yeah it's the big box analogy I think yeah the big box is not yet so did we just then keep all the Walmarts out that would be nice okay we can write that in later okay we we could try to write that in later than um 22-5 D2 D2 D1 go Walmart prob probably not um D it no because I mean if you if you look at the way Walmarts are designed now they I mean it's it's not that far off from you know the front of what public the front of what that looks like yeah you can design them that way you know and instead of it like being a separate business or you know the garden shop the oh right you know boom boom boom all those things the liquor store um and you're going oh separate you know bunch of doors not one door yeah big boxes more right so let's see roof roof and roof material examples suggestion breaking up the roof line adds charm and yeah yeah yep that's correct not just a plain old roof yep porches and entryways yes well defined yep uh minimum uh 8T deep and at least 150 square fet well wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute because the one at the one at Publix's only Services publ you can't get right oh I'm sorry no no you keep no I'm sorry sorry sorry sorry there's a one the one at wind Dixie so I don't want to do yeah I know it's not ours but I have been to places where there's little bit of roof and then you got to go outside and then there's no roof so that if there is a strip building regardless of their separate stores then I I think the porch should run the length of the building but it doesn't go around the side right no it doesn't go around the side uh because the theory well they Tractor Supply but they don't want you going around well you got to go across the driveway because they had their Pharmacy yeah drive but you can't but Tractor Supply doesn't have a porch it's not porches are not a requirement so they weren't a requirement so no and the one that has the name of a tractor doesn't have a p i get it which right the one that should look the most rural but that that is the that is an example of that of that flat and hip type of that whole facade scenario that we were talking about earlier right that tractor suppli is a very they have a box and they put little metal roofs on the front well and so but things to not necessarily decide tonight but for us to consider is um do you have to have some porch element um and if so what percentage of the the building um does it have to go around the side all the you know that's I'm not asking you to decide right now but I think that's something for us to consider and take a look at and what we're going to be trying to do is take a look at some see if there's codes out there that um actually have some of these standards element in there you know I I think that would go a long way to making them the way we want them to look that they require to have a porch and then there's exit on each side and that would be more connecting to each building that was the next one over well this just this does say entryways should be well defined so the entry to the building should be well defined with porches and railings yeah so that's that's why if I remember correctly that's why huh I think that okay no I'm reading the first sentence of this porches and entryways and saying entry ways so your ESS your path of egress I going be technical your path of egress into the building should be well defined right so clearly this is my path this is where I'm getting in the building with a porch and railings that's what this says with porches and railings well and has no railings yeah it has no railings correct so but again okay but well and and the question is not whether what it does or doesn't have at this moment the question for us is do we want it moving forward yeah moving forward and and I believe that is the look when they were talking about the sign at the other grocery store down the road right when they were talking about when they were talking about the sign they were talking about the entry porch that was brought up and that was you know um I mean if you look at most of this building here you know there's a rail there's a port it's clear ESS down the building um the medical building next door has that in the front um that's not the only entrance but I think it has it on the side as well where I think there's a little bit of a wraparound on there's a little bit of wraparound Everglades the the front and the side where you walk in you know so I think you know this is porches with railings emphasize a building's entryway yeah inviting customers to come in it's that's actually a selling point for the developer horses also serve as welcome refuge for Sun and rain so yeah so yeah why why we didn't make Tractor Supply put a a porch on you know who knows but I going forward I think this is something that sticks in and and it's definite and you got clear depictions of it yeah I think that'd be a great I mean the only reason if they took that mcdonal sign off of this building and you drove up to it you wouldn't know that this is a McDonald right and that's whole I've been there it doesn't like I'm like that's what I'm saying I was like did that used to be a different restaurant yeah when you look at this if they took that McDonald's letters off the front and then just had like a wood sign would you really when you're driving by know it was a McDonald's they could turn it into a an Italian Eatery if they wanted yeah McDonald's mov was out you know yeah whatever so yeah I like this one too this one here the low railings and the the thing is these days I don't think you need a big sign to get customers most people know where everything is they use their Google and that's it they don't even need a big sign out front anymore well we don't have our our sign code is actually very small no it doesn't stop them from asking we're not there yet sign lady um so I think are we in agreeance on is in entryways yes um cool we're like at 727 we're cooking with grease um screening screening means the total 100% masking out of concealing or excuse me masking out or concealing of any objectionable area to achieve this project developers can use fenes vegetation plant mounds of Earth Mounds planted mounds of Earth or or vegetation alone the appearance uh appearance achieved must be com uh complimentary to the whole and uh concrete walls are prohibited due to the their imposing unfriendly nature well well I mean there's a point to that there is but I would imagine to for example if it's if we do in depth ever having buildings closer to Southern Boulevard and the parking in the back I don't think that most of the residents towards that direction would hate a concrete wall with a BM and some trees to keep the sound well that but it's not a that's that's different than this is talking about you're talking about a perimeter I I think you're going to to a perimeter fencer or while this is talking about I think internally to the the development and and and dumpster screen is the one that that comes to mind if you uh if you're not going to have concrete there you're gonna you're gonna require that somebody I guess landscape around the concrete correct because I mean the reality is it's got to be concrete it needs to be concrete just if you ever seen concrete look like wood well if you if you've ever seen one made out of wood it don't last long it La yeah it doesn't because that guy driving the the truck that pulls up that d none of us are perfect yeah exactly there you go I mean that thing's coming down you know but it can be with a faux finish to made look like wood or brick or stone and then the gates to close it can be wood or or you could be slatted metal there's there there's a ton of aluminum stuff going on right now you know make make it look like a a Corral of sorts I mean it's called a garbage you know a dumpster Corral that is kind of the term for it so okay okay so what is I mean I would I think I would take a I don't know that's just maybe somebody's walking through I don't know it's a small world or something I don't know is utilities behind that box what is this the top picture oh you know what I bet is it utilities some kind of a like they wrapped a pole it looks like they wrapped a a telephone a pay phone probably that's a door I don't I don't know I think that's just an example of screen yeah they put some lattice around something yeah they put some lattice around something to hide it so but I think I I I honestly think we could take concrete walls or prohibited due to their imposing unfriendly nature take that we we could take that out and and say uh something along the lines of um you know concrete walls require landscape you know something or whatever you know if concrete or finish why wouldn't use the term faux no I know what you're getting at but I use the term faux finish because you don't want just slapping some paint on there and call faux finish or like you know you know what I'm saying or with you know because that's G that's going to wear off um right I mean like the houses now they build it looks like yeah stone or it looks like wood but it's actually yeah and maybe it's not maybe it doesn't have to entirely be landscaped but like around you know couple sides of it to to kind of break it right yeah like the three sides landscaped around three sides with a with a door well I mean we well the thing is well yeah it's going to have a door yeah they all have door but the thing is is um mechanical and waist screening screen should be objectional areas from the public you you we freestanding or mounted to what what we'll do on why why not on this one and I'm gonna I'm gonna go around and actually look what we got look at those things and you guys as you're chopping around look at what we got and see whether it's hitting the Mark or not well we got we got to kind of word this too is to like you know we're gonna say you got you gotta throw a gate on there we got to give an example we can't just say you're GNA throw a gate on there because they go to Tractor Supply buy two TW two 10 foot pipe gates and throw on there and it's got they got a Gates yeah right well because and I think the gate I think any of the out structures or whatever we're going to call these need to sort of they need to coincide with the architecture as well as any signage we allow them to have so there has to be whatever they whatever that's what I'm saying I think we something that says that that is complimentary to the approved architecture of the of the the accompanying structures or the main structure whatever yeah you know what I'm saying yeah like I said I think that you know it's not it's not something I usually pay a lot of attention to except when I look at ours um because people have them for the um I mean from the bar no they're they're all over obviously but uh take a look at let's all take a look at it for next time and we'll come back and that'll be one of the do we actually have a a section about screens in the ulc you know what I'm saying so like if you're standing back looking at at Publix you're St back looking at Publix and then I think let me see I know it said it earlier in here perit wall must cover you know you know what I'm saying yeah extra I these are my this is the this is 100 years old I don't shot I used to have it on Mark for every but I don't think we have screens I honestly don't I I suspect there's a requirement but let me just see if I find we can we can do that next time yeah you ready for signs yeah no no no no can I let me pre let me preface before we start with signs can I can I preface this is not the sign code I know okay there is a sign code I know and actually um um r g great tag whatever you want to call we actually met on this about three meetings before we got shut down I think it was like or whatever we're talking about signs because somebody was wanting I think um fire rescue was looking to redo their sign and they needed guideline whatever so they had us go over it so the the the sign code is not well and and you all are going to be reviewing the that's one of the assignments that we have is the signode reviewing the sign code and it's going to it's going to be a different look than it currently is not um well it's it's going to um be location and size uh and number limited and not content directed can't do that can you well not anymore what what you me not content directed uh the idea of of this kind of this kind of sign can be this big or um Oh I thought it was already that all signs are this big by this wide well um now there's it's it's there's more content specific stuff but we're we're gonna bring you back something that that is um more location uh very good I have quick question sorry um back to the very beginning what we have a we now have the letter R we are UL DC R review re review commit yeah it's REM me off too what is that review so we have to do a dance routine pz and p p pz and is called some what is it called it's called it's it's not pzb it's it's pnz oh it used to be pnz now it's butter and jelly no it's pnz Planning and Zoning because when somebody's I'm like what happened to the building oh but see a few years ago we didn't do building two years ago right yeah three years ago right so now we yeah okay interesting just just those little things goes around your head all right decorative science with rais lettering and or you enjoying yourself Robert okay cool decorative signs with raised lettering and or with carved images are preferred they were looking for wood signs I think yeah I think that's what they're going for I see low profile Monument type signs are allowable within a maximum size of 50 in High by 96 in wide um and high is relative to the grade that it's on F that doesn't mean if you have if you have a five footm you can still put a five foot sign on top of a five foot BM currently correct all right I I I think it's the greatest sitting on not the not the site gr you can't you can't build a hill and put the sign on it come on man I guess we'll get into that when we get into deep into signs burms coming soon coming soon to hall near you um L the sign will be uh shielded love that one that needs to be ENC caps uh direct lighting or task lighting no neon signs billboard signs uh bfold Sandwich Board posters or stakes and other types of temporary signage must be removed after business hours the use of the use of high-intensity metallic or fluorescent colors is prohibited back lit plexiglass signs of any type are not allowed um yeah pre I think it was pre-incorporation uh no advertising will be allowed on any exposed amenity or facility such as benches or trash containers such as what no park benches you can't put a you can have a Dewey cheetah and how on a park bench Better Call Saul right yeah I have lots of friends all signs freestanding or attached to building surface a shell enhance rule design and character well thoughts I you agree think that it needs to be embellished upon I don't uh I don't like the first one I don't think okay so we want to I mean like I feel like that's a little cheesy I don't know I don't know what well there there again there are I think this yeah I think this is example where I this looks like they liked wooden signs and they were okay with um Monument signs yes that's exactly what I'm seeing okay then I'm cool and um I think they're giv examples of rais wood rais letter wood signs whether and I think get dirty in then I think we'll um when we when we come back and discuss the sign code in a little more detail we can get into to those kind of things because U you sign they need to have something up so people can see them yeah you know like the C's going by a lot of people are just driving by and if they're a little hungry they'll see the C Mr you make sure you speak it to your mic I'm just thinking like the C people driving by might just see the Culver sign and they're a little hungry and pull in there and give them business you know so they do need some visibility from the street although I agree with not being big obnoxious or anything like that but they do need something that's visible or Southern Boulevard and and that is what you do have to remember since we're mainly talking about Southern Boulevard is um it is Southern Boulevard it's multi Lanes um and the speed limit is or the speeds the speeds that people drive are you know 65 plus you know and that's one of the the precepts of of signs is that you know it has to be visible at the speed that you are driving this is not a 30 m hour road that's out there single Lane so I don't think most people are driving around like that looking for things these days already know where it is yeah they know where they're going but that doesn't negate the developer or the of the business from wanting to put a sign out front that says hey I'm here I'm just saying they you know we went through this with Wendy's with their menu board sign and stuff like that with the size and you know sitting in here for an hour battling about how big the sign could be and Wendy's is like well listen we need to be able to fit this much stuff on the sign you're really and we're like well then they I think they end up putting up two yeah things so it's like now by by saying this can only be this big now all they did was put up another one you know what I'm saying so they're both menu signs for I know but if you go to places like Jupiter uh where they've done it right you don't even see signs from some of the roads because people and and they're not dying for for business they are crowded on the other side because people know where they are I agree I'm just being Devil's Advocate over here you're not doing 60 on on Palm Beach uh Gardens Boulevard Indian or Indian Indian Town Road when you go they they're going that fast yeah never go that fast yeah me all the time maybe not on Indian town8 you do have people coming from the West Coast or driving by or people headed towards the West Coast I mean so I'm not saying big obnoxious sign but they do need something that isible somebody driving by coming in from the West I know I've driven down State Road 80 my wife said let's get something to eat we'll drive by what about that you see that well it's St there you know not sitting there all the time just looking at what's in the area that that was all all the learn of it I yeah but um because the monument signs are worse and there's 15 it's a big sign how you going to read all of them you're not you're going anchor store again I think think if you're of the mindset that you're you know again we're going to get deeper into signs I don't think we want to get stuck down to signs we got about 15 minutes um I don't think we want to get really stuck in the minutia of signs I think the idea is that the signs that are designed and come forward we want them to maintain the same look and feel as the rest of I think maybe we need to go through the verbiage of it excuse me a little bit and may polish it up maybe come up with some some fresher newer images well I think yeah with the signs um I think we'll we'll approach it a little differently and we it'll let's Reserve that discussion for detail when we have the sign code in front of us okay yeah agreed yeah I think they need to sign does need to be yeah mean the lights on I mean that would be nice as long as they can see it from the street right those giant Marquee things I agreee with you that have 50 stores labeled on it are kind of useless because you're not going to read all those as you're blowing by them when you recall we have a we have a lighting code too right because that everybody tries to get around true so I mean and and actually if you read the in the sign thing it does say that it's to be a certain design you know directed light that's shielded so when you're driving by it's not blinding 8,000 Lumen I think we went over all and they can come up this way but exactly Shield like is just pointed right down on that so you drive by it's like that up right I mean listen we we can take we can take every a every aspect of this and I guarantee you there if listen if there's not something in the ulc that calls us out and specifies this there needs to be right so yeah guess yeah we could drill deep on all these topics this is a yeah what we want to do um I think with these is just get a um basic yay or nay on this and then we'll come back and review them versus the existing code um to see whether or not it it's important to differentiate within the rural Vista guidelines um versus the existing guidelines for for lighting so rural Vista I guess we should just be kind of going on this broad stroke just more Aesthetics as as opposed to yes yeah the rule this is more is Aesthetics and then the meat and potatoes is the ulc code that governs this like I mean listen it tells you the parking lots parking lot lighting on poles shall not exceed 20 feet the reality is should it say that in this document probably not probably not because it should spell it out in the LC right yeah you don't want to have yeah and you don't want to have a conflict I mean the reality is conflict is if it says you can be you can be 40 foot in the ulc and it says 20 foot in here and we adopt this you can only have 20 foot lights because it's it's when you have a conflict you go stra straight yeah I I think where you're what you're really looking at is with this um is do you want to have um you want to have a cute light right or just and not a or just a light light okay I was the only one to say cute I feel better C C like yeah I don't Liz I don't think reality we I mean like would I like to think that we can make everybody have like a the horse head knocker with a little right bit ring light and there that would be awesome um but you know okay so cute I don't know we get that far um I think if we can control if we can use this document to control how things look aesthetically and and to make it and to make it um well that you see and vice versa I think we'll be doing a great job I'd like to see more landscaping lights the ones that shoot up into the trees more more of that kind of softer lighting around like we don't like so bad there's just zero imagination like you guys should have a bunch of that going on out here it' be so pretty one of one of the things that they're they're showing here on this um on 18 they're that's not that's not parking lights that's uh like pedestrian area lights it's a you know once again two different animals and it does mention flag full lights in here you know of course it's right after signs so and again it said in signs it should be kind of I think the intent was it to be directional with some shielding and again the the ulc spells out lumens etc etc you know photo Valic boom boom jargon jargon angle yeah so I yeah cute LS yeah I I kind of actually still like leaving the not to exceed 20 in this even though it's you know yeah you know just just so it kind of reemphasizes the fact that we don't want 30 foot tall lights and whatever and like again what you said that these are pedestrian Pathway lights Etc what about parking I got have some comments on parking comments on lighting you need a lad you what did you know that's with the little bar is across those old lights lean your ladder to change the light bulbs did you know that what where are you what just what what it's old stuff oh parking I'm following you oh what what bar are you talking about on the light what were you talking about Joe post lights merged and then there's a bar oh the ladder on so that they could change the oil what could she teaching me something Joe surprise well back in the older days parking must be configured to incorporate or preserve the maximum amount of existing native vegetation for shading and screening keep it restricting the number of parking spaces and the liberal use of tree tree Wells Will Aid in tree preservation uh Serpentine angle parking is performed or preferred and can be planned around existing native vegetation um limited grass parking as well as parking sh uh shared between projects will help to maintain our greencape this is all like right and and I don't the Bible this is this is you know but I don't think that as I'm recalling the parking in our commercial areas um I'm not sure that we met that standard any no we we we we missed a lot of this um Publix say d you know that that Plaza is is diagonal it is Serpentine but there's no there's no vegetation in the middle it's it's a straight up pavement yeah and again way you know and I don't know again if we want to get as we're touching before I don't know if we want to get specific as to vegetation here but I think a real real um there actually is a landscaping page so I think it get kind of gets kind of kind of point about that but I think that's GNA be that big because it's gonna be is given the time that was developed I was that's probably one of the most surprising things to me is the yeah it was really a lot of us were surprised to be honest I mean especially with the nice little sitting area they did in the back which a few people used um I've stopped there on my horse and stood there for a few minutes but um you know we've rode around the pond you know things like that but I mean they did but should be in the front and the parking should be in the back yeah but the problem is is is then you're you got you're competing you're conflicting with pedestrian traffic with your commercial traffic and the you know the delivery so I the only thing I want to add to this to the working is that I would like to push all of our future commercial developers into doing what the college did and that's using the white Pavement in concrete concrete concrete yes because uh it's a lot more it's a lot more better for the environment it it'll take the temperature down almost up to 2° okay I think we all agree on you know the that was e i not arguing with you um and I think we all agree on the tree Wells and the canopy and all that stuff I don't think there's anything Robert that' be nice taking you know agree Cherry Picked the ones they want to save and if there's too much taken out they need to replant some stuff correct and then listen there are properties and I can tell you that property I I rode when I was younger I rode my horse through that property before and it was mostly hly and stuff there was not a lot of you know large SL Pine Etc that was all toward the back um and the same thing on the on the solar sport excuse me solar property there on the other corner you know we had we ran cows there when I was younger and it was all spots of Holly there was some Australian Pine and stuff right up on Southern there's a kind of a dense little buffer of that to Southern but there's just patches of Holly and the cows had everything eaten down the grass I mean we used to seed around all these little DCH P dense p p dense patches of Holly you know and the rest it was wide open there's some stuff you know on the edge that was you know so I think being mindful when we get to the Landscaping portion I don't know if we're going to make it but getting the Landscaping portion and looking at what they're saying and you know because I think a few of us are pretty mindful about what different plants are around and what's native what's not native and we kind of get specific on that and try to control that kind of stuff I agree well and hold their feet to the fire with their L that's but that's again this is you know yeah albeit there there are some I think there are some phrases I have haven't read the ulc cover to cover um bless you if you have I have um but there there's you know there's some stuff that's referenced you know and language that's in here that's used but the document hasn't been adopted and it points to this but you know so you could say yeah portions of it have been adopted so I think what we're doing right now and since they've reformed this committee and this is a great thing that we're able to go through this and and actually get this I we've been Incorporated for over 15 years now right MH and it's taking this long so I you all right let's get it done run my mouth uh parking and pavers I don't colored pavers are Mark parking spaces I mean listen you say PVE it with concrete you know you don't have to PVE it with concrete this is a more perious surface than concrete you could brick paper or concrete paper you know you could have a cobblestone type effect there's multiple different things you could do okay just not black millings or I'm no parking and paper it's talking about brick papers nothing on here has has right and again this is why I kind of said before I started on this page too you know this is this was a a reference document it wasn't an adopted well and it was I think too um it wasn't contemplating I I don't think um like a large shopping center type thing because you I've never seen pavers everywhere in a yeah I was gonna sayna do shopping center there I think it I think it was looking at you know more of a small strip area or no but they certainly could have put little between areas of grass and plants yeah well the funny thing is you go other places and they actually have big huge machines like you see laying pavement laying asphalt pavement on the side of the road those big wide machines with the trough yeah but it's kind of the opposite it has a big metal sheet shoot on it and they have guys up on the machine taking the papers off the pallet and loading them the pattern on top of the machine and as it drives away and shakes it lays the brick so they like m massive amounts like nearly as wide as this room okay we don't you don't see that a lot down here no you see big driveways and stuff but you don't even the paper crosswalk would have been nice that's pretty awesome well even the driveways are usually the the driveways are done by hand I I haven't seen a machine do it but that'd be pry cool what the cost is because you know concrete's more expensive than as care yeah and and well that's why you don't have you know we've heard it brought up when talking about roads people talk about Granite chat and things like that to get Granite here you have to rail it in or truck it in and it's cost prohibitive um you know it's just not good business sense to to truck Granite I me go buy a bag of granite chips from Home Depot but we're talking about a big grocery store that if they want to do business here that's not you're not pay the piper we're not they're not going to put Granite chat in a driveway I'm just using that as an example some things like like Robert said concrete drives are expensive concrete is way expensive right now we could go through why but it's it's it's an expensive product right now and it's cheaper to do asphalt or or you know they don't do millings they do asphalt so you know that's why they put asphalt so if we don't want Asphalt in the future Now's the Time whose's fault I love you J all right um we have so so we have two minutes because I'm I'm Gonna Keep it on time I think that's important um I think we just say yes to landscaping and well I want to I want to look at Landscaping see what's there so it's right after nonic right after well it was parking and the non-vehicular pathways and pedestrians I didn't we didn't get there so we're we're stopping at pavers we next next meeting is uh number 18 or page 18 yeah and we'll address some other we Zoom you in Robert come on man the next me the next meeting is scheduled for October 14th I think right before I go to California oh right right after I get back from California yeah I'm going for the ICC uh code trade show meeting Etc are we keeping them at six o'clock yes okay if that works for everybody 6 pm on Monday yeah that works for everybody be at the next one better for me okay so yeah so Robert Austin won't be at the next one um I guess let's go down the table here I don't know I anything to say oh yeah let go down the table and and thank you fun I'm so glad we're starting I'm I'm so glad this committee's been stood back up again I think it's a a a great way to streamline and hopefully get you know some stuff done in a proactive manner yay thank you Town Council Robert yes make sure you talking to Mike I like most of this stuff like you said update it a few tweaks here and there but get back out so we can have some nice looking buildings in the town and not ugly boxes and Military Trail style strip shopping centers Karen yeah I'm happy to be um taking care of the Royal Vista vision and uh what everybody had thought about for this town for a long time and putting it into action I guess that leaves me um I like thank you all for uh considering me to your chairperson appreciate that I I I again I with Joe I'm I'm glad that uh we are revitalizing some committies um I think they're a vital part of our community and the involvement of our citizens and I I think they're very important um whether it be election board committee or you know Charter riew Charter review or you know the finance committee retack if that comes back or R GAC or what do we call that roads and trails yeah it's it's back I don't know that it's met but it has uh it is back so there it's a good way for us for for us as as residents to be involved in our town government it's a a good way for us to make sure that we can maintain the way of life that we want in this town um you you know I personally as most people know i' I've I grew up here live here since I was 2 years old I'll be 50 at the end of October um so it's been a long time I've seen a lot of changes but I think we can move in a positive direction I think that's what these committees do so thank you again and we will see you guys on the 14th except for Robert because he'll be out of town motion to dismiss second all in favor hi dismissed thank you st that was awesome I think that was good but they found my yellow highlight sign know oh crap I stole that on purpose you guys are going to be mad that we made you guys a chair and vice chair when oh we we I wasn't surprised no