##VIDEO ID:mkTxlKJEf3M## at this time I Sammy Brown the town clerk assistant call this meeting to order at 6 o'clock Tuesday January 28th 2025 at 6 pm and this is the meeting for the roadway equestrian trails and Greenway advisory committee at this time uh we'll call rooll Katie Committee Member Katie Lakeman Committee Member Darcy Dean Murray Committee Member Frank Shiloh here Committee Member Ashley bur here Town manager Francine ralo here town clerk assistant Sammy Brown is present uh committee staff liaison Richard Gant Public Works director present Jeff ctss I'm still here project coordinator at this time I'll I'll we'll stand for the pledge of allegiance of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay at this time we'll have the approval of the agenda but we have two Chang changes and that's um item two will now be item one and then we'll be adding a third item which is the swearing in of our committee members and the selection of a chair and vice chair I make a motion to accept the uh changes in the agenda as presented thank you okay and at this time I believe there are no approval of the minutes needed and at this time we have we have any public comment okay at this time we have do we need to vote on the on the changes to the agenda oh yes excuse me um all those in favor I passes unanimously thank all right at this time there are no public comments and we'll go into our first item for this evening the presentation regarding um transportation Alternatives with the F Beach County transportation agency presented by Miss MC Nicholas hi I'm Mary mcnicholas good evening um I'm with Jeffrey be sluggan Associates and also a town resident um I have Trish bar here tonight and Trish is with Simmons and white she is a traffic engineer as well as a very competent equestrian um we do have I I didn't know how to describe that because there's so many different levels of equestrians um what we'd like to present to you is just and I've been able to get with some of you all um just to refresh your memory and see where we are but back in uh 2019 April 2019 we did put in for the uh Transportation Planning agencies palmach Count's tpa's program for multi-use uh Trails um that included Crossings and also multi-use Trail on the south side of okobe Boulevard what we'd like tonight is to present to you just highlight of that program and also ask for your input I know you all haven't been sworn in or anything we don't need to do any voting and stuff but we wanted to just get your input because it's very very important for this um we do have a little bit of a quick turnaround in that we need to actually put in the application by February 14th so we are going to try to do um hopefully try to do on uh February 11th do another community outreach here um hopefully for she'll be able to join us cuz I haven't been able to discuss that with her um we do have some handouts that we want to give to the committee members do we need a receive and file or can we just hand it to you it'll be on your screens as well but I'm going to without anything else I'm going to turn this over to Trish bar and what we really want you to do is think about some of the things that are discussed look at it with partially a clean slate and come up with ideas or you know after this meeting feel free to give us more input but whatever you have at this point that would be wonderful okay Trish hi Trisha bar from Simmons and white um I've been doing these uh lap and uh Transportation Alternatives local interlocal uh projects for about 30 years in the State of Florida uh currently doing quite a few for the city of Palm Beach Garden and have done for other municipalities so very familiar with this work I want to kind of take you back to where we were when you when you go for these projects first you'll put an application by no means is that your final plan it's an concept of what you would like to do so don't feel like to you know we're in a crunch and what we turn in is it's basically an idea of what we want to do and then there's feedback from many different people do is one of them um the transportation planning Authority will give you feedback and then it kind of works from there it also includes what can what will they pay for there are certain things they will and won't what will they not so let's go to the next slide um just so for people to know um I when I moved down here 30 years ago I started in boen beach with my horse I moved down because of the horses I had my horse um off fulson road boarded there for I think five or six years and then I have my horse boarded on casy road so I have Trail ridden around this community for a long time my horses are currently in a Homeland but very familiar with the community um trying to uh get around this area riding into the other Park areas that you can get to the North or to the South so I've been there done that had to cross I'm also currently doing um I've done many equestrian Crossings in uh Wellington and I've also I'm currently doing the the Southshore Pearson intersection expansion which includes a major horse Crossing we have horses Crossing there all day long and so been doing uh work with the county to to handle that it's you know a unique situation but just so you s know understand some of the things I do understand about this um so what we went with originally this is sort of like the master plan that was presented and it involved Crossings at the major streets so that you could come down into the plan into the trail that we had designed um and they and so the crossings are going to be paid for I believe there's you know this is all what do you want to put into this plan and what would you like to see is your vision so this is how we had designed it it was a a trail a multi Trail we can't call it an equestrian Trail or a bike trail we have to call it a multi-use trail but we were factoring in to be able so people could walk and people could also ride their bikes or people could ride their horses or however they wanted to use this Trail but it was a way to get through the community without your car and also to Define your community that was one of the goals at the time was to give it some definition sort of like um places like upperville Virginia or middleberg Virginia try on North Carolina to name some places um that have implemented Visions for trails that can get through your community that protect the users any user that's a walker a runner a biker person on Horseback from the roadway at the time this plan also included a segment that went up frro along the canal um and one of the selling points on it so we we take this we put it in and then we have to go kind of pitch it against every other community that wants a project and really it was the interconnectivity of the plan the fact that the locks ah HED grow had a vision and we sold them on that in our presentation um and actually moved ourselves up quite a bit in the scoring um so the vision was to to connect north to south east to west and the biggest component of this was the east to west to Define okobe and to protect the people who aren't driving from the people who are driving so let's go to the next slide and I and I'll as soon as I go through what it was you guys can just ask me anything you want about why can we do this can we do that so the existing typical section of okobi Boulevard and I I trying to explain this simply without being too technical but typically you drive on a road it looks like this right so that the water can drain this way and the water can drain this way but okay choby Boulevard was built so it's one side of a four-lane road that in the future where you see the 10 where it shows a 10- foot buffer and existing asphal sidewalk that would become the other so this is your existing roadway they were going to build the other two lanes over here and so that's the design plan future use so this that's why this road is a little bit different because it's not a typical widening where you're widening out from an existing top you're G to their plan was to add another road so it's a little bit different than other roads and that's why some of the things that ended up happening on the design for the trail did um you have things to consider like drainage and uh interconnectivity of the drainage into what is existing on it and you can go to the next picture we'll just you can just see okachobee Boulevard this is looking down it so you can sort of see the kind of the slant of the road it's all slanting one way and if you drive down a road and you look and you look at the center line almost always it's here in the middle high in the middle and slanting down and currently we have your you have a bike lane on that that which would remain and then let's go to the next one this is just so when you when you provide your application you're going to give them a typical section and for engineers that's essentially how we cost things is we create a typical section and we figure out how much that's going to cost per mile and then we develop a fee um so the typical section and at the time this is how it was presented was going to add a d curb at the top so if you're accepting water and you're on the low side you put curb and gutter so you put a little gutter it's about 18 inches and then you put a curb so that that water can't run into the sidewalk and that in this case we had the Little D curb and the reason we have to do D curb is there are standards that you have to meet for protection of cars versus Vehicles so right now you're looking at what's called a rule section and to clear to be clear without that D curb you have have to have like 14t to 20 feet depending on the speed limit right now you're at a really low speed limit so it's like 14t but it it makes you have to push the trail farther and farther away the D curb gives you the permission to bring it all closer and what we had done at the time is we gone to a fencing contractor and instead of using the really high State numbers for fencing we had gotten kind of an estimate of how much a fence would be so we proposed the D curb with a fence then the multi-use trail which is essentially based on the Wellington um standard which is sort of based on the forestry standard with their own little Florida Twist on it and then the existing asphalt uh sidewalk we were going to try to save as much as it as possible um that wasn't going to be if you driven around here obviously it doesn't go straight all the way but we were going to try to save as much as possible so anytime you want to change anything you have to pay to rip it out and you have to pay to prep it to dig out from under Reep it and put it back in so that adds costs so this is what we ended up with and I looked up the numbers the number at the time including the F Trail was $886,000 roughly of federal funds and it included 4 and I think 880,000 of funds committed from the town for what it was 1.39 total million at the time so now it's you have to we're an F Road would have been backed out of that so it would probably been somewhere around a million dollars um I'm GNA say that prices have gone up and they continue to go up and in these times um things are not getting cheaper so those costs I mean I'm looking at about a 25% increase on my signal designs I haven't done as much Trail work in that time um but everything's going up at about 20% so I would say million to for something that looked like this with the crossings so you have the option of implementing parts of it um page Gardens is a community that's really good at just picking pieces and you know nipping away every year at a bit of their Vision the best thing you can do to go to those planning things and ask for money is to show that you have a vision and that you're just implementing parts of it and that's where you guys get to talk about how much you want to spend and what your vision would be and Mary and I are here to just answer your questions now I'm sorry um you I mean you can right now my experiences and I'm I'm just saying that the the federal dollars that they would like for for these projects if I I haven't seen really a limit that's but I know there is a limit on this application do you know what it is on this uh the total amount I think it's 1.5 that's the federal invol is what what you I think what you're asking is how much do you have in the budget or Francine has in her pocket to go ahead and allow I we don't have that question or we don't have that answer um the other thing is is that we got to come up with the design first I mean like what it is that you want to see and then we can break it down and see how much we can actually afford unless you have some other information foring we don't have anything budgeted for trails in fact there's been nothing budgeted for Trails since I've been here the last time that we applied for this grant we also had no funds budgeted for this grant however we've gotten a lot of positive feedback from the TPA and we also have a different Council that's very supportive of trails now and as we go into this year the time frame for applying for the trails grants are now this is the alternate what is it Transportation Alternatives Grant by the TPA and then next month we also have the um fur f um Trails program Master Trails program I can't remember the name of it but um if we don't apply we won't have any money one of the things that we've talked about is that there was a grant for the North Trail many years ago and $20,000 was left over from that um so we have that 20,000 additionally we're also mapping all of the towns RightWay and we've gone back and we've looked at all the properties um that previously had been included as part of the um IR I can't pronounce it but the Perpetual use permit on the west side of all the canals so um what we're trying to do is put our Trails program back together and this is just one stage of it um we do plan to apply not only for okobi but also for f and if Richard were going to talk he'd be telling you that he's actually working to measure the actual widths that are actually in our RightWay not just Eastman area but right away Max I don't know if there's a maximum I know there's a minimum most of them are around between two and 10 feet is what our physical it depends on what road you're on um for example d Road and C- Road South of okachobee our Canal bank ends at our RightWay so there's nothing there but if you look at like F and e Road um there's a substantial amount and that's what we're working on right now is to develop a map that will actually have the specific distances um actually we're using the data from the resiliency grant that we used to be able to measure from the back of our RightWay to the edge of our Canal Banks all the way through the entire town so we'll know exactly least for every 500 feet which is what Canal cross-sections they gathered when they did the resiliency study will be able to tell you exactly what the widths are all the way down through the whole whole town plus we all we also we previously um had gone through and done survey work on okobi so I think we do know the um go ahead yeah we have we already have from the last project you you have to prove you have the RightWay to even get through the process of getting it so okobi we have all of the known right away and we extensively met with fdot I mean there were 15 people out there with from all different agencies with us on the side of the road I was kind of shocked to be honest with you to do this with the agencies already mapped it out this has absolutely Ashley been approved as far as it goes question is um because we're talking about finances right now would it be advisable uh could we maybe do it in stages kind of like what you mentioned with Palm Beach Gardens how they're doing things could we maybe implement or recommend implementing The Crossings first and then maybe a more massive the the bigger project which is okobe Boulevard I mean what what does that impact look financially that's gonna be a big thing so right now we need to we will have to be working on you know what the costs are and that's why I was proposing the 11th as another Community input meeting it could involve you all not as formally as R gag but you know informally so if you'd pencil that in for your and your calendar you know because Samy's already got it there but what we really would like is your input like what you said we don't need a consensus we just want your input so if it's the crossings first if it's you know if you have questions on how the crossings would be done that would be good input I know in speaking with some of you all you asked if you could have different colors not white lights that are blinking on those signs did somebody had said mentioned red do you want to address that please it's important I can address it um absolutely you can do Crossings Palm Beach Gardens just did a um just a Crossing uh lap project that we just finished and they put they put it up pretty quickly so yes you could do just Crossings and say this is part of our interconnectivity on The Crossings themselves and the way that you can signal them anytime you become red lights you have to do a warrant and there has to be an engineer that says that you can do it so what you but the law says if this is flashing and a horse is crossing you have to yield to it so in it becomes in Wellington they're they understand that and they do they have to stop but could you pull that microphone to you please you no you do for the recording you need to we need it to be that way thank you is it working okay yes yeah are the signs that we're looking at here similar to the ones on collecting Canal as you go toward the bridge or the ones near the college is that the same signs that we're looking at are they you're talking about a question yes yes they are um and they and and the idea with engineering design particularly in Florida is to try to match the expectation that's already existing so pretty pretty much down if you see any type of C horse Crossing down here it's going to look like any other ped Crossing it just has a different symbol on it like this one that warned you that there's a horse but this is pretty this is a pretty standard um they have a rectangular rectangular flashing Beacon is what rapid rectangular flashing Beacon right they're like triangular um yeah I've looked at those and you can't see the flashing white lights especially when it's sunny out so if we could change the color um can't see them cannot see them we we did this so so in essence if it's white it's just with we'll check into that I'll look into but it's it's like impossible to change National codes on that and the federal government is going to yeah but it might be where it is or where it's located there's something around it but in Wellington my experience is you have huge volumes of traffic going down Pearson Road and some of the other roads and they see can see it it's visible and it works so it might be the ones that were installed it could be a problem with this particular ones that are installed but this is the national uh standard and you can't that's one of the things you can't change in um a project like this because we are using F so if we can't change it maybe we can put additional signs up before the flashing lights come maybe you can you know something else before before the people get to the sequence of signs and I know just a comment on Pearson for whatever reason people go slower than Oobi I feel like it's a highway on Boulevard so kson also has fencing and other visuals knowing that their horses there yeah and that's that's actually why we proposed a fence it was essentially modeled to look very similar to some parts of Pearson um they didn't have as many Crossings but they're used to it one of the things with any Community any like upperville or any places you're establishing an expectation with your drivers to learn to to see that these things and to respect them so it's it becomes you know an issue of when they see it they start expecting it I I totally know I've been on roads I've been on fulson road riding my horse and had a guy run right at my horse's butt with his car honk at it so I know that it's hard um and especially when there's a lot of drivers and they don't think that they should share the road um that's sometimes when you have to talk about enforcement um but you can do Advanced beacons so if you pushed the button then it would set up another Beacon we could also do you can also do beacons that say have messages um or signal what the speed is in advance of that to kind of tell people so there's there are a lot a lot of ways we can address the problem I think just one other thing if you could we'll look into that the advanced beacons also a couple people have brought up striping because if there's no striping across the roads it's not shown on this was it already included Trish one of the reasons I don't do striping is horses not all horses will cross over what we call a high emphasis crosswalk um and the material that you use is um slippery that for so you have to think about that but there are materials this is one of the things talking about cost there are materials that you can put that are a different color or um that creates a visible oh I see a crosswalk um the example would be if you drive along the beach you'll see a lot more of them where it's like a stamped asphalt that's a different color so there are ways that we can draw attention to it um you can also do tables some horse communities have done that as well um not everybody's a fan of those but there are ways to we have to we have to understand that we don't want to have people's horses that won't cross that either so we have to be careful with the materials I think the biggest thing we do need is the awareness because I'm speaking for some of us that are equ questionings who ride out all the time I mean even on the dirt roads we're going to be hit because nobody cares now that they're paved it's even worse um I've personally almost got hit walking my horse in hand on North Road going to the horse trail and that's just on the dirt road so you can imagine how crazy it's going to be on okobe um but safety is our number one priority and we should be able to utilize the town because it is an equestrian town so my other suggestion is a sign and fome saying you are entering an equestrian Community horses have the RightWay per statute etc etc bringing people who aren't aware of what lockah hatche Groves is that hey you know just like deer crossing when I'm driving down a country road I don't know there's deer so that might be something else that that we could put like entering into the town where it says town of oxac grow yeah and there was a um the separate initiative that was the roundabout initiative that was trying to when we presented it was trying to do that kind of identify the community and have in some way in the in that entrance feature around fulam to kind of say this is a horse Community they have one in on a roundabout in Wellington that was an example we used but yes we need a way um and that's also something that you I mean it doesn't need to be this project that can be a smaller project where you figure out how to put some landmarks because yeah yeah some of that wouldn't be federally paid for anyway right right it might be too small a cost and stuff so it may have to be paid for in another way so any other roundabouts I know that that's been kind of a an issue lately I'm I I don't I don't really know the background of that so I'm not going to take a position either way but if um if you were if the um if you were to move forward with the okobi section um and they later some later said let's put some roundabouts in is that going to increase the costs even more because no it it would be a separate project separate be a separate project from this I'm sorry I can hear you it's okay you gon have to rip up the side of okobe Boulevard if you're going to be doing roundabouts or or sometimes some no no we're designing it into whatever it is that we're doing now however we don't you know there's there's other information that we're taking into consideration for anything else as far as traffic Hing somebody else had something too I know go ahead um I I have a couple of um observations I know that on Pearson Road that the Curbing and the fencing and everything uh it works over there but also um that road has uh uh speed calming devices on it all through it's got roundabout it's got three or four speed humps which we won't have on we won't have speed humps on on okobe as in the near future but um how high is the curb in that you currently have designed uh the D curbing uh it's a 6 in curb which is like the again a fdot standard uh curb size can can we go higher you could increase your costs is the biggest thing I'll say you know if you go two inches more it's it you know every two inch that's a special form right so you'd have to pay for something to be specially that standard curb they just have a form and they extrude it so anything that's different costs money and time I as an engineer I don't think a higher curb does you I'm looking I'm looking at what do you what do you want I'm looking at the safety aspect because you know a curb right now you know a car you know will hit it bounce a little bit a truck will hit it and go straight over the top of it and the fence is only just a a minor incident for a truck going through it and whoever is on on the other side of that fence pays the price and I'm just looking more from a safety aspect you know than anything else um I would really like to see and I know it's um I know it's not in your plan or whatever but a k rail that runs all the way down there or they call like a y rail some people call it K Rail and that and that basically stops anything from coming through there short of a concrete truck doing 80 miles an hour but um I know you know cost uh cost um factors into all the stuff and we could we could uh ask for whatever we want but if we want to pay $30 million for it I mean we got it exactly if I could just interject there while you're doing this since we're doing this give and take um as far as that you know we talk about the curb and we talk about the fencing right now if this would have been built and approved in 2019 um it we we would have already had this done for at least a year and a half at this point and if you look at it since I do a lot of adop the road programs and clean up out on Kobe I will tell you there is nothing there now so anything that we would be adding would be at least a safety protection factor that much more than we already have so I just want everybody to keep that in mind that there is nothing there now and there's lots of pedestrians a lot of cyclists a lot of dog walking and a lot of horse riding so just just FYI you know I'm sorry Frank thank you I mean I'm I'm all for a multi-use trail but you know I I just don't um um you know I see people going down through there I've seen cars run off thank God there were no cars or any or horses or anybody there but I've seen them run off and there's nothing to stop them and you know I'm sort of thinking that you know something that's a little bit higher that's GNA they going to keep them I don't know I mean I'm just trying to we will definitely it's on my list as far as what we're going to add and look at for for you know and for the the horse Crossings at each one of the Le roads you know going straight across or whatever where the current bike trails are at now having a flashing sign for people coming north is great but you have nothing for anybody turning in and I mean it's you know it's it goes right back to everybody has to be aware of it the people on the horse are very aware of it people riding bikes are very aware people driving vehicles are not very aware they're in a hurry and all they want to cut in front of this car because they have to get home 10 seconds earlier than they would thank you that's a good great point you know and we also if you notice we have signs on both sides of the street I think in one of yours collecting Canal right now you have it on one side of the street so if you're driving West on collecting Canal you're not going to look for potentially might not look for signs just on the Southside uh that was something that your committee members brought up but what what thank you for that what I wanted to say was if we might be able to at the letter roads if we can take it and where you have the bike trail because I'm trying to do imaginary yeah the bike trail go straight like this if we can take it and bring it out a little bit maybe get with some of those land owners say can we bring it in to where it's 20 feet in from the intersection and then that way we can put a sign up there so if somebody turns in they see some flashing and it gives them time to stop I'm just sort of I'm looking at at you know a crossing that's basically is is stopped on one side but when you're turning in from either the right or left it's there's nothing really to stop you until you see somebody right there something do you know what do you know what I'm getting at when I say we're thinking we're thinking I I do um the only I like I love all those ideas um the problem is everything that we Implement has to be in the existing right away and has to be own so like but you should throw out everything that you want because these are things that I think your manager and everybody else your project coordinators when they're looking at projects and people coming in and wanting stuff there's always the ability to for the town to ask for those things knowing that you would like that right away to expand that ultimately and you know a little blip out those type of things are like $10,000 projects that you can add in later two one other thing just if you could because I want to answer Frank too as far as it goes it since that's North South Road we have to check to see first of all if it's eligible because everything has to be on a County right you know a government owned right of way and a j actually somehow identified and tagged with Oobi okay so that's the first thing and the second thing is there's no reason we should couldn't be adding like some kind of yield to whichever on the north south because that's a great point Sorry Darcy no it's fine what I wanted to to what Frank said not only is the visual taller visual for the vehicles it's also for the horses because that gives them hey I can't go that far over it gives them a visual because if they're just looking at a road and a curb they have all kinds of room to Spook or you know run off or whatever the case may be the other thing I wanted to ask you is can you bring this picture up on the yeah and then can you just point out from because I'm I I can't see what what you're showing here it's really hard for me to see on no problem it just gives us a different Darcy while she's doing that did you mean that you in that last comment did you mean that you would like the taller veral meaning the a higher curb like what not a curb but oh I'm sorry a tall something a taller visual like saying a fence the fence well the fence was part of our original F even if it's ail wait come back here come back here was this the picture she was looking yeah yes um it was going to be a 4 foot uh fence very similar to um if you want to equate it it would be more like Southshore Boulevard they have a equestrian Trail and then a fence so right if you have a horse going down that road not all horses but a lot of horses are as tall as me at their back so the rider is up over that so I'm about a little over five feet so the fence is going to be so I get two rail two rail wooden fence three yeah three rail yeah which most horse fences are yeah I mean ideally for would be if I could do it in a perfect world but I think our estimate was like 94,000 for the fence the whole way down but that's the perfect visual for the anal yeah just to create and yes but that's it's good it would look essentially we gave them the look of the one on sou Shore and said how much is this gonna cost so yeah if you could just show us on that picture what we're looking at the existing typical section or proposed so yeah that's existing right now but I'm saying like on this this draw what is it what is it I mean I can see where the I can see where the lanes are obviously right so let's go back to the picture so you see the bike lane can you see the bike lane on the cross-section so you see the bike lane sign where's that where the buffer is that's a the edge of the buffer approximately then you would have your trail to the approximately to the outside and then this is kind of a a badge spot because you could see where they've ridden the sand but you can see the the existing asphalt would pretty much stay in this one right so existing asphalt sidewalk would stay and your multiuse Trail would be inside between that bike lane sign and the asphalt so there's a buffer between the bike lane and the existing which could potentially be used for the trail the width of the trail yes can you talk to us about maybe switching and I know you talked about like taking out the asphalt up but I mean is there a way to put the is there a way to put the horse trail on the other side yes of the asphalt walkway at least for me personally when I'm if I'm riding down okachobee I'm not going to want to ride like right next to the road right next to the fence I'm gonna ride on the other side of the asphalt so talk to about that you can do it you it I I can give you like I could give you an estimate of the cost difference that that's where you have to decide right so we're looking at it was about a million dollars for okobi trail including the fence if you were going to do swap those two out it's probably going to drive you up we'll we'll work on I can give you a number but I'm just gonna say off top of my head half a million dollars do it without tearing up so my question is because I we want to be practical here right is there a way to do it without tearing up the asphalt so all you have to do is just free Asphalt over the old asphalt and put the put the horse trail on the other side of the asphalt is that possible there was some mention of working on the Canal microphone please there was some talk about possibly refurbishing if you will the little canals there and then that would leave more room for it to be able to be that was one of our biggest problems is when we I mean we walked and I happily walk with people along this whole Road and show you kind of the things I see um and what the challenges are but the biggest problem was outside of the asphalt is really not consistent and a lot of it's wearing away and it's as an engineer I wouldn't tell you to put it there because I think it'll be gone if you have a major storm okay um so I would if you were going to switch it I would I would put the asphalt closer to the fence and put the trail where the asphalt is and but I I wouldn't feel comfortable as an engineer telling you the way that it is out there now that you could put that trail on outside and that it would still be there for you in 10 years that's one of the challenges so it's not really possible however we can ask Palm Beach County and Palm Beach county is responsible for that that Canal bank and Canal drainage so it we've got it on our list T ask okay that back thank you that back up this project then if Palm Beach if we had to wait for Palm Beach County to fill if you will a canal then we get started is that I mean that's probably a couple years right we we wouldn't request filling the canal that's that would be is that called the canal packing the Canal bank that's that's what I mean it's a drainage ditch I guess Canal whatever be better to call it a drainage ditch if we have to talk to the county you know quite frankly I don't there's no doubt no doubt about it so but we can always ask and and we're not going to hold up anything we're just going to keep moving with it they'll be fine no I I actually if as a horse person I'd rather see it where you're saying it is as an engineer I would say the way it is now I wouldn't see that that's a feasible option that's anywhere within anybody's budget but you should always dream and put your vision out there what you would what you would like and that's what you go so we promised that we would go fast and but your input is so critical to us and like I said we're going to try to do a I think it's February 11th yes I think February 11th as far as a community input um another one and we want you to bring back listen you have my numbers call me we're going to figure out we'll I'll give you direct access to Trish you know if she if she allows it and you know if there's anything else that you come up with please feel free go ahead I just have one question for Richard in in measuring out the easements if if that's what we're calling them umobi no I know what she's talking about are we trying to make them all the same width you know connction well so the drainage that's what that's currently what part of the resiliency study we're doing is is to evaluate all the canals figure out how why they really need to be because like the a if you look at a-road that Canal you know you could fit a boat in there like a yacht because it's so wide especially Boulevard where other like eoad Canal is as wide as these two tables I'm talking about the the trails that we right well that the the the RightWay that the town owns is 60 feet okay across every road except for from on D Road from collecting Canal to Southern it's 136 feet so you're saying from the canal side to the property line is supposed to be 60 feet all the way from well the canal on the road and the easement for maintenance is 60 fet is what the right away is along every Canal North Road collecting all of them but you're talking about I'm talking about just the greenway part of it well that's what we got to figure out because depending on where the road is where the canal is how wide the canal is because if the canal is 40 feet the road is 20 feet that's 60 feet that's the problem we have on Dad it's because the canal with the banks everything else is about 38 feet and then the road is about 20 feet so if I could interject I'm I'm really sorry but we have to like like get any more input on okobi so there's no more on input on okobe we can leave and you all can continue with your meeting just tell me if there's anything else you have for us then you guys can go go on do you need us anymore I thought no I think it's just a presentation yeah you're if you have a comment I'll be happy to entertain it if you don't need then you guys can go through with that sorry I didn't want to interrup but on on okobi yes I know only you questions Paul Coleman 14620 6 Court North um so is the percentage still about the same on this new TPA Endeavor percentage you know our our input versus the count or the federal input whatever 25 cents on the dollar okay so okay um what just rough I I don't hold to any numbers but um The Crossings versus what would you say the percent I would have to assume that the crossings are the more expensive portion of this project just off the top of my head just know we we don't have the cost because we haven't completed the design and stuff we're just getting Community input right now okay so all right I I guess no my question was so like on the okay let's back the previous TPA the whole thing the million bucks what percentage would you say the count the was The Crossings yeah absolutely yeah so right now A Crossing is between $25,000 and $30,000 and we were looking at se seven seven so 200 200 200 250,000 I'm just throwing it off the top of my head so you're getting I'm giving you a ballpark excuse me I have a question on that when you're done that that actually answers both of those questions um opinions on the D curb I think they're great because if anything else that we noticed even from this picture I think once if we can get through this and get this done and this was the cool thing about the original TPA Venture was that the D curb is actually going to cut down all this um improper turning off of the letter roads it's going to maintain it you know traffic within the in the you know in the lanes um now I'm assuming that we have to have the paved sidewalk is there an option to just get rid of the pave sidewalk since it's a quote unquote multi-use Trail or due to Ada etc etc we'll check excellent so then easy all right cool thanks guys my my quick question was do we have to do all the crossings at once or we could do one two five um you my recommendation is you have a vision and if you say this is my phase a whatever you pick as your priorities you can pick as your priorities you just have to say what your ultimate vision is and what part of your vision you're implementing right as long as we keep the connectivity there and just say we'll start with F and whatever I mean sometimes it might be well we have more people crossing at f d and a or whatever that that's between what your community believes is the best way to address it we just have to show that this is our vision and this is the part of the vision we're implementing question and in in The Crossings what what are we talking about just the signs just the flashing signs and maybe some Crossing tape that was yeah that would that cost wouldn't include like uh special stamped asphalt or anything so it's just basically the signs on each side that flash yeah for amount that you quoted us yeah okay like um stamped asphalt isn't necessarily covered and we will confirm that because they have things they take in and out of like a specialized asphalt sometimes they won't pay for that um so you know when you're then your 25 cents on a dollar goes up right anything else you all we're not we're leaving for tonight but not leaving for good we'll be back on the 11th we believe and then you have access to us whenever you need to thank you rich thank you thank you all so much we really appreciate it thank you for coming thanks Mary so to answer your question um the reason I'm asking is because I frequent frro because that's our Bonafide Trail it's marked but a it's inconsistent B it's really there's not a lot of room for error so if you have a you know horse running toward the fence line to greet your horse and your there's this much room or you're in the canal so some of them are wider some of them some of them are are roading Etc so yeah one of the biggest um you know if you watch the council meetings I've mentioned this repeatedly is one of the biggest issues we have in this town is neglected that the town has been neglected due to um funding short staff pleth yeah Vision um you know everybody wants to save everybody money but then something's got to be neglected in order to B like right now even with our current budget we are barely keeping up with what we have and there is probably I mean I've said this at Council meetings there's over $80 million worth of work that needs to be done in this town just to bring it up to par um not even like you know some people talk about Cadillacs and all you know you know my Cadillac Vision it's like no my Cadillac vision is just to get the road get the canals straight the canal Banks stabilize so they don't keep sliding in that's the reason why you have you know one section of of the f Road Trail that's 10 feet wide and you go 100 foot down the road and the the trail is four feet wide it's BEC and you know we've got you know 60 miles of Roads you know all in the canals to go with it and just trying to maintain those with a crew of nine people is difficult and I mean we are all trying to appreciate what we do have and trying to ride these Trails but you know there's not a lot of room for error and four feet on a on a horse is and believe it or believe it or not the horses don't help with the maintenance um we were walking down the f Road Canal the other day to look because we're trying to reestablish the hide Park drainage ditch from hide Park Road back to the elf Road Canal and I almost broke my ankle uh because because horses riding up and down that Canal now put holes in the Canal bank because some of these horses are riding right on the edge of the canal and they're causing the canal to slide and I like I said I almost broke my ankle the other day walking that would have helped him with a person they walking they're they're they're pretty unstable yeah so um so it's not just a horse it would be anything anything yeah oh anything yeah but you know it's you know it's it's creating another you know issue like I said now we're going to have to address somehow address the base of all the canal Banks um that where the horses are riding to stabilize it better because right now it's all dirt and grass yeah at what point in time they used to seed them they throw big bales of whatever and blow it on there but that wasn't done very well well I mean even if you look at their drawing their drawing calls for basically uh Base Rock You Know Shell Rock and so that's essentially what we would have to do is go down all these now that's what needs to happen with the upoad trail is we honestly need to go down there remove about a foot and a half of material and replace it all with one and a half minus Base Rock and compact it so that way the horses don't tear up the dirt and it'll be more them could they dge out that the canals oh where well they can it's just it's a messy process and timec consuming and there at least there's material well but the materials is like like right now we're digging out right now we're digging out the hide Park pond and I'm sure the residents over there love us right now because the odor because of all the debris huh I'm not familiar oh hide Park if you go down f Road to collecting Canal it's the first road on the right f Road and and e Road yeah well no it has a tree canopy when you turn down the road what um it'll be beautiful when we're done but yeah there there's a pond in there that used to be like the residents over there used to say oh yeah this thing used to be 5 six foot deep and because of neglect and for last 20 plus years I mean I had residents over there said yeah that tree right there it snapped off in Hurricane Wilma and the rest of it laying in the pond um so I we're talking 20 30 years of of neglect and um you know we're digging stuff out of there and it just because it's the all the tree debris and the leaves and everything else has been rotting in the bottom of this Pond for the last Lord knows how many years um yeah it doesn't doesn't smell pretty but once it dries out we can use we can you know remove it and then you know then have a sustainable Pond what are we trying to do for the trail are we trying to widen them are we trying to make them all same width well we're trying to keep them right now we're just trying to keep them clear so they can be used because the the residents don't help because they don't clear they don't cut the area so our our folks have to do it uh with our equipment so um we're actually looking at different ways to be able to do that more efficiently because right now we're using our mowers our sideb mowers in order to to cut back all that all the debris so that way you guys can ride down these Trails without getting smacked in the head with a tree branch um but we're actually looking at um there's a cutter that we're actually looking at that go it mounts to the front of the tractor it looks like a big giant saw and just run right down the the thing and just cuts the face of the all the trees off nice and clean and looks all nice and pretty when it's done almost like a sickle bar yeah essentially so would imagine that would come in handy for a lot of things around town you know oh yeah few things but um like I said there's just so much work to be done on the town with the trails and with the roads and the canals and culs and it's just going to be a slow methodical process of of slowly working to get all this stuff done okay well thank you do we want to move on to the next part of of uh doing the swearing in and then electing a chairman for the well there's another item on here which is the uh Road standards yep so at this time we'll transition into item number two uh the Rural Road Improvement standards updated February 25 um February of this year for this year all right so attached to your agenda is the Rural Road Improvement standards um this is a this document basically reflects the um how the roads will be built um it doesn't cover easement obtainment it doesn't cover anything like you know you how we decide roads are going to get paved not paved all that stuff this is essentially how we build the roads um how we maintain the roads you know how you know how we address drainage Landscaping medians guard rails traffic cing um existing conditions how we make repairs that bikeways equestrian stuff um so so I don't know if you want me just to go through this or if you want to spend a couple minutes perusing it um you know obviously just you know the idea of this tonight is to bring this to you so you guys can review it um and then you know any comments you have you know bring it up to your council member we're going to present this also at the February council meeting again for the council to just review and comment and then when any changes we'll make we'll break make and bring back in in March or in April next time you you guys meet I do have one question of course my eye reflects right to page nine with the equest trailer paths um grber Lane that was paved wasn't there supposed to be some form of rail on that road yeah eventually that'll be done 164 161st gber East cus um Casey we're all supposed to have uh and they will the the the contract are just finished we had to wait for them to be done with their project first um and then it's in the it's in the order of of things to get done so it will get where just because I'm curious there's ditches are they filling the ditches in to put sh on um we're not filling the ditches in but there's enough the way they built the road there's enough room for us to basically flatten about 4 foot five foot section on the on guber specifically it's on the North side all the way down from um D yeah D to C um we're going to basically flatten and reinforce that with the Shell Rock like we had talked about earlier and then uh we have to reconstruct some of those ditches actually on both sides we have to redo the on all those roads we have to fix all the all the ditches like 161 is you know is a lot of work I understand that but I know that we were told that there would be theay there it's gonna get done it's just it just takes time again you know time resour no I understand what we're just impatient horse people because we've been waiting how many years 38 for me and then the first exactly the first here have the right away on all local streets where equest trails are not presently available or accessible since the the streets have been paved there's absolutely and you can ask Ashley absolutely no way that we can ride on these roads I've almost been hit I know has almost been hit it's there's something has to be done about that whether it's police enforcement whether it's police escorts for these question questions that are trying to ride whether it's you know people aren't aware that it's a Florida statue that they do have the rights of weigh um we we really it's about safety someone's going to get killed and then it's going to be really bad can I interject in here what about those signs we used to have I mean were they great now that's Begg for those signs yeah but they're supposed to be in an office in here somewhere what signs they say yields horses have the rideway please yield blah blah blah some were sponsored by faers we had them they were a few some on the roads now they're not not on the roads and word has it there are some in off off here I don't know about I know there's done in this building um there are some still around the town you we are in the process of replacing the signs but we're currently replacing the signs that are legally enforcable like stop signs speed limit signs because I mean like you go to your point you know people are flying up and down these roads but the Sheriff's Office can't afford a speed limit if there's no speed limit on and you know due to our budget constraints we only have I think last year we had $20,000 for signs and you know when the average sign cost with the post cost is almost $300 it you know doesn't go very far especially when there's hundreds of stops when I first started here last year if there were two dozen stop signs that were in one piece that's a lot we've replaced I think almost 200 stop signs in the last year um alone and like I said the Sheriff's Office can't enforce a sign that's not there or that's damaged or not complying with do standards right but I'm just going by the verbi you presented to us that says all horse and Riders have the right of way but people don't know that unless well we're replacing the signs it's just it take again it takes time we got to figure out what what our priorities are do we replace the stop signs to speed liit signs or do we not put those up and and buy horse signs but I'm I'm with Katie I know that someone there somewhere I don't know if they were with the water Control District they're not I can assure you they're not here anywhere because I've been through all the buildings that we have and we if they were here they've been used or they're they were here they were gone before I started here because I can assure you we have done an inventory of all the signs and we have plenty we have 34 35 mph hour speed limit signs if you know anybody who wants it because we can't use them but we have 34 of them um and we have road signs we have all kinds of of signs but horse signs are not there and we are in the process of ordering actually this week we're ordering probably like $20,000 worth of signs these other signs were sponsored by one was a faer on my my road one was Taylor Farms did one so maybe that's something that we could look into like if we if the town doesn't have money to put the signs up or whatever or that's not the first priority part that put it out there would anyone like to sponsor an equestrian safety Francine Jeff and I will talk about it and we'll see what yeah you gotta ask them they can say absolutely well if it has to be priority at least where since frro is the only designated horse trail that we have it would be nice to at least have one okobi right and one at North Road where the bridge is where we connectivity into the acreage so I've been asking for over year to get signs on those two places so if you could well we are ordering signs in the near future so when we do I'll make sure there's some of those on there Richard quick question um it says here about the uh the Shell Rock current shell rock roads yes um and it it gives the what you need for um for um you know sh two feet of Shell Rock preferred and all but um are you going through on these roads and taking like a core sample so you know what's actually gives you an idea what's in the road because these roads have been so you are doing all that so you know well what what what we do because we know the center of the roads are typically pretty stable it's the edges that are the problem so we don't dig up the actual road but what we do is we dig up along the edge of the road and dig down so you know about a foot or two so we can see what the side view profile is of of the roads and believe it or not most of them are actually pretty good and if you look at the roads we did this year um you know uh Gruber Casey e Citrus if you look at the way we did those we actually if the road was 20 feet we actually prepped 22 to 24 feet and we removed all the dirt put shell rock down compacted it all so that way the actual Road edges will have a stable base unlike a lot of the roads where I'm sure you guys have seen where the edges break off because the edges weren't stable begin with so that was one of the the procedures that we use this year was to actually stabilize two foot a foot to two foot beyond the actual Road width so that way there'll be a stable base at the actual Road Edge another question the signs that you're ordering are these the sign here that's one of them well two actually we're looking at both of those because sorry for the horse ones because that doesn't really tell people anything but there's horse I mean I feel they should say caution or ride horses have ride away or something the ones that we had were were good I thought this is what so that's why I'm if they're going to order them I feel that it should be something more than just a picture you know the do standards require the pictures because you have people from other countries who don't know how to read they don't know what caution means you don't know what horse Crossing means don't know what the visual with the verbiage is what I'm trying to say of course we need the picture that would be two separate signs there be sign underneath of it says horse Crossing and and at the horse Crossings that's what they would say they do have signs like this shape like that that do say horse Crossing with that visual okay we'll look in there thank you I just wanted to follow up on something that Richard said he said that he's handing out the roadway standards to you for you to read and get with your Council appointee on um actually I think we need to give you a little bit better discussion on why you have that document um first of all the District had some standards the town started to prepare some standards and on and off over the years they had some standards but there were not consistent standards and we also cannot meet the fdot road standards so we have to have our own level of Road standards and that's what this Rural Road standard is for and it's also to memorialize How deep the asphalt is how big the whale is how small the travel Lane can be we have a number of neighborhood non-conforming roads and that term isn't used in this document as much as it should be um but keep that in mind as you're looking through it the goal is not to change every road to an 18 to 20 foot travel Lane you know two lane travel Lanes um but when you look at it it might look like that so to me it seems that that it would be worth everybody's while to reconnect with you on questions that you had to make sure that the intention of collecting all the previous Road standards putting them together and Shining them up for the town that we currently have it would be worthwhile to be able to answer your questions as opposed to have you share questions with your Council people who can't answer them yet am I making any yeah so yeah so looking at I'm like do you mean Landscaping right exactly right exactly I think actually taking taking this home and because I I got this at three o'clock this afternoon I scanned over it right but and I know that that we can't do greenbook standards because we don't have we don't have the land to do it to we don't just and there's not desire to do it right yeah did you see page 12 um page 12 yeah part of the landscape like you making the comment about the landscape stuff is you know you got areas like B- Road between collecting and Southern that has Landscaping they like hide Park is a perfect example you know that's a road that we're actually going to be putting landscaping around so um while they are small they have to be included um you know we did get a landscaping Grant we can we did get a landscaping Grant and hopefully we can use it when we do the hide Park work the Landscaping Grant which fortunately um shall I say Miss Murray or shall I say dey okay um so Darcy actually gave us the heads up on the grant we applied and we got $7,500 for public education on reforestation and so we're looking to see if we can make that and I don't want to take Richard thunder away we have to do a reforestation plan for that community um and what we would do is try to do something that um is a sample natural habitat and then we would do an education program using that as kind of like the flagship for it I offered to write that Grant too but I guess yes no but you can write any grants for us you want to we need help I sent it to you all and I said to write it and no we got to take care of yeah no we did that but no Any Grant anybody wants to write we're happy yeah no we're happy to get the help on it so um I actually think this is something that everybody needs to kind of digest you know and they're probably going to be a number of questions so our goal was originally to give it to you all and the council at the same time because they're going to have to talk about it and v through some things as well um so I think this is going to be months long of an issue not you know a single meeting and we're done that's what I think um so I would would encourage you to get in touch with any of us with any questions email them call whatever um happy to sit down with any of you I'm sure Richard would really like to do that and um may I call you Frank Frank okay have been for years Frank yeah I know Frank has actually driven around with us a number of different times you know so we're willing to try to you know um you know look at it from from your lens the last question that I have um being on this Committee in the past um my expectations were a lot different than what we were handed um I think we worked on a whole year of serviceability of roads and that was it and signs for okobi road that we didn't want business yeah the signs the you know the standards of what the signs should be I'm not here for that um I want to make a difference in this community and not just be like okay tell me which Road you think is driven down more I mean that's taking time away from my fin y'all fig that out so what are the expectations of this committee for the town well I think first of all we want to go ahead and resurrect a Trails program because we don't really have one so and I think that's the goal of this committee if you take a look at our comp plan that's what this committee is supposed to do help us have a vision for our trails and um I think that we're in our baby steps reapplying for a grant we already got um yeah and yeah and also we're going to go to the next level and do a second Grant and by the way you probably don't know but we have a rural community designation in Florida so we don't have to match our Florida grants so we're hoping to get Florida grant money and um not sure whether we can match it against the Federal grant money and with your vision on the trails combined with the council vision and Direction on the trails we need to start budgeting something for them every year and applying for more and more grants because if we come up with something that has to be phased or if the TPA says that they like our grant last time we didn't have money for it and we were going to budget the following year so our timing is that when we will find out about this grant we can budget in the next year and in fact last time they gave us two cycles to be able to come up with the money so I'm not terribly concerned that we don't have a big chunk socked away right this minute I'm more concerned for us to have a vision that we can go ahead and keep building you know and connecting I think that when I worked in Wellington and I'm not trying to make the town Wellington and I prickled every time she said Wellington we don't want that horse trail and if we do it needs to be the community that says we want that horse trail but um the goal when I was there when we applied for this grant the Greenways Grant from TPA was to connect through town to the county so that we had a connected Greenway you know and that's when I was across the street over there I would imagine the town would like to connect to the greenway well you know I they're working on Trails too and exactly we'd like to connect the whole thing connection would be The Preserve right absolutely this par behind you know it's not very big but it's there and ours and they have offered that by the way I that they don't really have as much use of their Equestrian Park as we would probably be able to use it so I think that's a good idea in terms of thinking big you know and it's multi- years that we're going to be doing this but we've got to start well my goal here to sit on this committee is to um you know build these Trails as safe as possible for the people that are using them with the money that we have available right you know I don't want to be the one that says hey it's not as safe as possible because we don't have this money give us an idea of what we're looking at as far as what monies are available right and then we can go and move it along from there because I've seen this over the years in this town is that you know different committees sit here they they have good ideas it gets to the council and then there's some infighting over there about I want this I want that and then it gets dropped right and then nothing gets done right and this is why okobe has been talked about ever since I moved here before this was a town and the only thing that we got done on okobe was a sidewalk and that was Tony masotti paid the money for the sidewalk um out of his his discretionary fund or we would not even have a sidewalk over there so you know my thing is you know uh on our end get it done we can agree on it we're we're a good group and move it forward to the to the Town Council and urge them to get it done and so that we can actually see the fruits of our labor yeah and there's money to be found you just have to find it I mean there m to be had we just have to find it so well I'll send you some more grants that I've been looking through for the National Trails Association the the there's also Trails where the they turn the railroads into Greenways oh yeah they yeah they were giving out money too so I thought I sent them but I'll send them again and that's too bad because we used to have a railro Waterway I own that property now because I paid taxes on it for 20 years yes ma'am oh wow that is co but is bunny lady called me up like 35 years ago and said hey would you be interested in obtaining this 100 foot easement sure what do I have to do should I pay the taxes okay that's cool every year wrote my little check now I have prowd owner of another 100 feet I learned about that in law school but I've never really seen it in action I did it's actually north of okobe and it actually was supposed to come from West Palm and it was supposed to dead end in lock satche Groves it was for the original um Orange Grove that was out here in cattle operation because they didn't actually have a road to go through Southern Boulevard was only a dirt Trail back then and this would be able to get their their Goods to and from uh the coast and then they and there was a lot of discussion about uh IID wanted to leave it the way it was and make it a part of the trail thing but a lot of people that lived over there said I don't want horses over here because people are going to see what I have in my backyard and they're going to come and steal from me so yeah we lost a perfect thing because I mean that's the that that's the big thing as is with these abandoned um railroad rideways now is that they're turning them into multi-use Trails yep and it's a big thing on the west coast and over in the center part of the state yeah and up north down here has a huge yeah and they go you know like I'm off a c road you can go from C road to B Road you know that's a whole connectivity I mean I don't know if anybody would volunteer to um you know donate some of it back but that would be pretty awesome if they did you know that way Sarah one next to her I think they they run it runs and west west but straight and and and a lot of people say yes and there's always going to be that one to two it says no and that kills the whole thing you know it's unfortunate well and the other issue with it also is it's it's got to be one of those jagged lines in the entire town because it does this some people own 100 feet there's one property that the that there's one pro 20 acre parcel that the guy owns 50 ft on this side 50 foot on this side and 100 100 foot in the middle and the guy in this property owns the other 50 foot and the guy on this property owns the H50 ft and these two properties don't own any of it so it's all if you look at if you go to the property PR's office and look at the map and you'll see the line just does this all the way down from a road to to G if you were to if you were to try to recreate it what you would want to do is approach the property owners and have like a 15 or 20 foot easement smack dab in the middle and that would be a straight line the proposed and then go to I agree also think another thing that this group will help with is we're talking about putting the map together um originally there was a PR Perpetual use easement hermit hermit easement whatever granted by the district to the town but here's the thing um I have it on some good legal Authority that it needs to be a multi-purpose easement as opposed to a drainage maintenance easement so we do have a list of those names and we have we're going back through to try to check you know whether the easan is still there or if it's been eroded over time and we need to figure out a way to make those multi-purpose easements so that's another thing we're going to have to look at so support for you know getting easements will be important I think I don't know if you've been paying any attention to how that's been going while we've been doing the roads it's not the easiest thing if it were a road would have been down about a year ago right so it's it's just I I think the whole thing should have been handled differently but hindsight's always 2020 I I think if every if it would have been you know each Road they would have went to all the people and said this is what we'd like to do instead of you know the way I don't even have a dog in this race so I'm just trying to give an easan back but they just don't want you know they didn't like or I felt like they didn't like this people pulling up and saying this is where we're going to put the road well interesting on a road just you know and I don't want to make you stay here all night um do think we need to talk about these Road standards a little bit um that's why we're having the road standards so that we can approach things more consistently and what we did with a road is what you're saying we had um a couple of and we did it with 161st as well we did neighborhood meetings you know Richard you can jump in anytime you want um we had a bunch of neighborhood meetings and we invited everybody that lived on a road to come um we also had um did they come I'm sorry for not everybody no or we got a good turnout rich I think there was 10 I think it was like 1015 people here something like that yeah we got a good turnout we actually got some people from other roads that came to the a-road meeting um to express their displeasure and um you know um with regard to a-road we're continuing to try to get easements from everybody where we don't have an easement in the deed so that's what's taking us so long even when people tell us what they want anybody want to add anything that's okay with what are the eement for though um Road and drainage yeah Paving and drainage and we have one resident and what's interesting on a-road is we have one resident who at the meeting said well you should also ask for a 10 foot easement for trails and we're like okay at this point you know we're fighting with these people just to get the the 25 foot easement for the road and drainage so that the road is built correctly and it actually drains properly without flooding you know everybody's proper road we fighting we're asking huh we weren't fighting we were asking but um yeah we're asking these PKS for the for the EAS so we can actually and he wanted us to ask for this 10 foot additional easeman I'm like yeah no we're not going to do that right now we'll do that in the future well now he doesn't want to sign easan at all so I mean that that's what we're dealing with and that's what it t one person you know you we could have every resident on a-road and collecting canal and if we have one person that says no Then now we either have to modify the design or you know something we'll work through and we had the same problem where I live at we had one person that refused to let FPL come back and cut the trees so we were all we going without power every day until I finally went ahead and said hey just go ahead and cut the power off here cut the power off here we get power on both sides and leave them without anything when they found out they were the only ones without power they were more than happy to get the power company in there cut the tree was that by f Road uh yeah f Road and marel yeah well like there's a a speaking about Florida Power um you know they were going through the town and they were rocking and rolling underground the whole thing and then they stopped and everybody want said well it's the town's fault it's like no it wasn't the town it was literally like it was one resident who owned like half a dozen properties who just refused to give fpnl and easement and yet on my road we had people on both sides that we went to them said we will sign everybody here will sign it off and they're going nope it's a pilot project and you guys are are schedule for 40 years from now nice we actually have a they're we're meeting with them tomorrow actually to so I'll be taking a trip to Tallahassee to the Public Service Commission and that's what it takes and they don't listen to you know we get people come to us they're like you know the town needs to to do I'm like they don't listen to us no we have two we have two meters we have one here and we have one at public works that's it but if all of y'all and in half this town starts calling the Public Service Commission and you have you know 2,000 resident 3,000 residents of a town calling said you started doing this stuff and then you stopped they'll listen to that before listen to us is that what we need to do to get fiber out here they AT&T and Comcast are a whole different they actually listen to they actually listen to more if you go and do a complaint every day and a different complaint because that's what we did to get the trees cut back years ago and we end up costing them $80,000 just in fines in three months and he finally came to my house knocked on my door and he said sir will you please have them stop we will have people in here we guarantee you by the end of the week and we had I kid you not 45 trucks from FPL and ashin on our road for two weeks cutting the trees back and then they restrung all the lines and put all Transformers in and all that so um there are ways to get it done and maybe that's going to be the the thing about well you know our residents could easily band together start calling the PSC every every day with different complaints yeah and and yeah because I want underground power I have underground power and I'd like to know why there's still polls on C Road and I addressed my supervisor that put my underground power in and you know what he told me that fpnl wasn't going to pay to remove all those polls and I said what do you mean you know we we signed these we agreed to have underground power like oh yeah they well AT&T and AT&T and Comcast are still on so until AT&T and Comcast underground their utilities those PS will stay there forever the problem now is when FPL was on there you at least had a shot that somebody was going to Tri now FPL undergrounded everything and cut the polls right right above where AT&T and Comcast ended and walked away and turned all the polls over to AT&T because we're fighting we're having discussions with them right now um we have a road that the residents want have helped pay to pave the road but there's an AT&T Pole right smack in the middle of where the road is supposed to be so for the last nine months we've been in conversations with AT&T and Comcast and AT&T pretty quick they actually put a new poll in and transferred their stuff over now we're waiting for Comcast and good luck with that switch over to YouTube TV and get rid of Comcast but you still GNA have Internet satellite satellite the next thing and that's wipe these guys out oh you have starlink do you like it oh yeah never goes out I have my H wants to get it I have the router on UPS so when the power goes out of my house I still have internet do we have to pick a chair and be sworn in oh yeah need does anybody have any questions I'm trying to fix z- Road as usual that's what I do come to these so does anybody have any questions on the road right now um and like Francine said if any of you have any questions um I can give you my card my number on it um I'm very accessible and we can sit down you can come the office we can sit down and go through of course it will be going to council members as well it says 20 to 24 ft for my letter Road C and it's about I don't know may maybe does that mean they'll redo the road if we accept not we well so if you read it there's also a thing in there about existing conditions great read the fine print Kate I got it but no the idea is is what the theory is is that you know like let's say however many years down the road you know by some miracle Comcast and AT&T undergrounds all their stuff and all the polls go away and then we're able to get easements or whatever we need for the residents and we you know decide to we have the we get a grant or however we ever be able to fund it um to go down there and redo C Road um you know we could then you know put in the proper drainage make it the proper widths you know adjust the the canal so there's more of a trail on the other side because that's like to get the trails on the other side of the road that's what the what it's going to take it's going to take to have to shift the canals over that's going to cost a lot of money to be able to do on every road how many you oh a lot a lot like every it's so crazy they didn't even they didn't only they didn't remove them I it's a joke they didn't remove the last ones I mean they're everywhere going to Dr new's and a horse tr that's my oh it's a scary situation C has got to be one of the worst roads and we have talked we had there's a section of it just north of okachobee where I I'm sure you noticed for the longest time it was overgrown because we couldn't cut it because if you stopped and looked in the inside of that mess you'll see there was Comcast and AT&T lines wrapped in all those trees and if we would have gone out there and cut them and they managed and they would have gotten cut and cut service to their to their customers they would have build a town to fix them even though they're the ones who allowed them to fall off the poles and get wrapped up in all the palm trees and all the was that e Road D or C I currently have T-Mobile internet which is not Lovely by the way and the reason is because my they after they buried my fpnl they left the wire just it sat on the top of the fence from well Grove to my house so every time the guy weed whacked I had no internet again like this happened a hundred times so finally I had to do something so they're not maintaining anything from the power bolt down we have we have stuff that's from Hurricane Milton on e d on D Road where Altman Farms is across the street from Alman Farms the the tornado took a bunch of of tree debris and and knocked it into the canal and knocked it On the Canal bank we can't do anything with it because AT&T's power our lines are still wrapped in it and if we go out there if we cut their lines to cut or if we do any damage to those to those lines when we're removing our trees they'll charge us for it and it's and it's crazy and we've been fight AR we've been on the phone with them it's a tough situation I mean even with this little situation I have on my street like they're great over there while call them they you know but they must displ that line I don't know 50 times to the point where I've just got demob little tow yeah they're not and they're not regulated by the PSC either so you can call the PSC and they don't care they don't care no yeah that's you know I actually looked into that you know we were trying to figure out our way some you know the only thing we can do is call the FCC and even the FCC doesn't really affect their land their wire Based Services only you only can make complaints against their Wireless Services what about residents calling now res that's again that's probably the best solution is for the residents to continue to call and call and call and eventually they'll do something about it because they'll get sick and tired of hearing people okay at this time we'll move on to item three which is the swearing in let Frank get up there y so at this time you will take your oath of office for the town of lock Hatcher Roes roadway way equestrian trails and Greenway advisory committee if you could raise your right hand at this time and repeat after me I your name Frank Shola do solemnly swear or affirm do swear or affirm that I will support protect and defend the Constitution that I will support protect and defend the Constitution and the government of the United States and the State of Florida and the Govern of the United States and the State of Florida and the charter of the town of lahache groves and the charter of town of that I am duly qualified to hold office under the Constitution that I am Dy qualified to hold office under the constitution of the State of Florida Florida and Charter of the town of lockah hatu grow and Charter of town and that I will well and Faithfully perform I will well and Faithfully perform the duties of Committee Member upon which I'm about to enter m at this time you are now sworn to your Committee Member seat yay congratulations and we'll follow up with the the crowd is is applauding they're roaring um and if you want to select a chair and a vice chair at this point in time um we have a second okay second all in favor say I I all righty that passes unanimously and do we have a motion for vice chair I make a motion for Dar all in favor say I that pass and we're gonna have to change all this in three weeks if reelected who's your appointing uh Phyllis I think I've had you won't change don't remember you won't change I could change because uh Robert appointed me so his seat is is up which is okay if somebody wants to sit up here it's okay too either way well you should talk to those three candidates um do we want to discuss uh the next meeting the next meeting date it was already February 11 question answer yeah it's a question and answer session it's it's not specifically a a red tag meeting nights better like week night's better for anybody I mean I'm pretty flexible I mean I I actually would like if if if you all are good with it if we could start a little earlier I'm because you guys are here during the week like at like five o'clock or something like that is that okay ran or it's okay with us it might be like ton I mean I can really try to get hair five I pick up my daughter granddaughter at aola Creek Middle School and they get out at 4 something something about 5 5:30 5 I can I mean we can put it for five okay Tuesdays are the best Tuesday best youday yeah do well some Tuesdays are good for me others aren't okay why do I have two four written down for the next meeting that's that's a council meeting um so if you you're talking about Tuesdays at 5:15 5 well 515 better well I thought I thought somebody up there was a little tight so I was thinking five is okay make it happen um so anybody have a calendar handy as to no no we don't have well the 11th is a Tuesday yeah it's the the 25th is the last Tuesday in huh well you being the you're the you're the laas on so that's probably important to take into consideration wedes doesn't matter I can well today's Thursday right no today's Tuesday Thursday Thursday seems like a good day right for all right so we'll do Thursday 13th 20th 27th um well it's the you'd be looking at the 27th I think and we do every 30 days every month once a month yeah well it at the end of the month it depends on on the need and there is a need for uh another meeting but I think that would that would work uh are we supposed to meet again before that to yeah before the 14th or that no there is no requirement that uh we have an additional meeting with the red tag there is going to be that February 11th meeting which is not a red tag meeting but is a general meeting you all are welcome to to attend that meeting and you're probably going to be uh some of the most informed people that would um be there since you're on the committee and have had the Advance on that so but uh there's not a require M for this committee to meet again um before that Grant submitt um so for right now we're talking about one one meeting a month unless there's a need for another like a twice a month as the town as the town manager indicated these uh roadway standards are going to uh we're looking to adopt them but the presentation on February 4th for the council is going to be similar to the discussion here it's an introduction um so before they would be adopted I think it would be appropriate for E to to meet and give further input since you really just got it to today um and the 27th probably works well uh since we don't have an another council meeting until March 18th and in all likelihood the earliest adoption would be in the April meeting so the the 27th of February yes you may meet any Thursday you wish in the month of February you are not limited to the 27th it's do we want to try and meet before I mean so the has to be submitted when February 14th I think it is but and but we're going to be we're going to be submitting a grant right we want to submit the grant for the it's the trails yeah Trails so but we're going to be meeting after that's why I'm asking that's what I'm there's going to be a public Workshop or Community workshop on the 11th know who's writing the grant who the two ladies that were presenting tonight are writing the grant yes yes that's where the that's just for the money that des and build comes after that correct that's for those particular that's for those particular trails and they won't the reason to be submitted first there won't there will not be there will not be a significant update um beyond the meeting on February 11th we where additional public input is going to be then it'll be submitted on the 14th there's not going to be an update for you to really consider on uh any of the February 27th meeting what's definitely going be there for you to discuss on February whatever time it is in February is um these standards and there may be more information with respect to the trails depending on uh where we are on our work and Analysis on those things and and that that would be good anybody that wanted to come in and and um you know get um and get you know married and I forget the other name I'm sorry back back here to answer some more questions for us Trish bar Trish Trish that meeting is at 6m I believe so we're still deciding on a time it's it'll be sometime between one and six we figuring that that out sometime between one and six yes one of those times so she's made us put the hold on for that time frame she's trying to get people on and off all day long oh okay so do we want to set a t tentative date for February 27th we can always if there's nothing to discuss or nothing or there's nothing has changed we can always say we're we can cancel the meeting that motion yeah you'll definitely have something to discuss because you've got to follow up on the roadway standards so February 27th at 5 o'clock here in the council chambers you know what might be helpful and I hate having this thing in front of me um is if you had comments and wanted to send them to Richard or to Sammy and we could collect them all so that we would be able to share com your comments with you you know as part of an agenda item I I'll actually make an appointment with Richard before the a week or two before the our next meeting and any uh questions I have or whatever then that way I have answers to them and if it's perent we can share them with the yeah with the rest of the committee yeah um the other thing I want to mention is you're getting I think correct me if I'm wrong Richard but there's going to be like eight crosssections that go with this that show the road the trails and the drainage so you'll actually see as this thing starts to develop what the cut of the road would look like and you get to have the input on that design on on this rail roads there'll be actual pictures of them basically look like which they showed earlier for the presentation it shows you know here's the drain here's the road here's the trail so we'll have one for the majority of the roads where we'll have the road the the canals and and Trail and the roads like East Citrus and such that have you know sale the road and Trail and when it's feasibly possible if we can get a timeline of what we're looking at for for uh input Community input our our stuff Town Council stuff design build and then to where we can actually see somebody digging in the ground okay for the Andor for the roads for the trails on ill okay that's a big deal for me because that's an unsafe Road as it is and you take your life in your hands if you're a pedestrian or or on a horse or whatever and it's a it's it just boggles my mind that somebody hasn't been killed multiple people no I mean multiple people like at a bus stop or something like that where comes in and and plows out you 15 kids waiting for a bus you know so I mean I can just don't want to see it happen and I just want to you know like I said before we've talked about this for 35 years and still that the road is the same it is as it is I don't I don't want anybody to get too excited um about how quickly that money is going to uh to come um yeah my understanding is there is um not federal funding available at this point in time that was lifted tonight no but federal judge lifted it tonight no there wasn't any Federal funding that was allocated with respect to um the TPA monies that was the discussion that we had at the county waiting I've been here 22 years yeah we've been waiting so you're saying that there is no federal funds available for this grant I don't think that we should I think that that is Will statement there will be but we don't and that I think we should not all right take that comment right now the grant is open for application if there were not going to be funds they might put some type of cautionary statement or close the application period and they have not so we are applying for the transportation Alternatives Grant so we're just going ahead as planned we're going ahead as planned additionally later this year in May or June we will Resurrect The Round about application if we can um additionally I do think it's important to say we don't know what's going on with Federal funding because last night the office of Finance Management and budget the federal office sent out a letter that put all federal funding on a pause and today um in federal court that was overridden and so any grants in progress continue to stay in progress so I don't think that um we necessarily have a one for one connection between you know what we're applying for and what's available right now so we basically need to prep so that if we get the funding because there's going to be a limited time once we get the funding that we have to use it or it gets that is true and we were encouraged by the TPA to apply for this grant I think the issue is that okachobee does not have any money funded for it in the TPA long-term plan and that's for the widening or the extension of okobi okay so next meeting is February 27th at 5: pm here in the council chambers yes sir sounds that way motion to adjourn the meeting okay okay meeting adjourned okay we use it when we camp and as long as there's no trees good I actually have my my we actually have three starlings between the oh that's you you that's fun she a lawyer