Okay, we are live. Call to order. Pledge allegiance. Thank you. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Roll call. At this at this time, Madam Chair, we'll have roll call. Chairperson Joe Sisiano here. Vice Chair Karen Plant. Committee
member Robert Austin here. Committee member Sarah Palmer. She's joining us virtually. Oh, thank goodness. Daniel, we'll wait for her to get set up. I don't believe agencies director. Madam Chair, we have a quorum to
proceed. Excellent. So, and there are no meeting minutes for approval at this time. There are I'm sorry. Oh, no minutes. Okay, that's what I Right. So, do I have a motion to approve
the agenda? Anyone continuing sign discussion? will approve it. We have a second. Second. All in favor? I do. I say passes. Three
to three to zoom. Do we want to wait for Yeah. Can we Can we do that? Yeah. Hey, do you want to give her a call, Sammy? I did have a question about one of these.
I sure hope so. Well, most of them seem pretty uh reasonable. Why don't we wait for them to come back on? Can we talk about the the time of our meetings and
where it's placed and Well, absolutely. But I've I would I'd like to have as many people as possible in on that. We have a new member. When is that going to When is Mr. Yan? Is that right? Oh, am I
not supposed to know that? Do we have a new member? Someone. Okay. I don't think it's Is it on the tomorrow's meeting? I don't think so. I'm trying to There's There is an appointment, but I'm not sure it's to
this board. I can't remember which board it is. Okay. It may be on. So, this meeting or the next one? Somebody else will somebody will see by the council and then whatever the next Let me let me say this by the time we have our next meeting somebody will be
here somebody will be here okay because we're not going to have the ability to meet uh again this month it'll be in June before we can is this going to is this
Perfect. Okay. Well, anything else we can talk about while we're waiting here? That's why I brought up a time frame about the meetings. Does what does does an earlier meeting work always for you? Uh, it depends. I mean, on day like today, it's
not that bad. I don't know why we got to we meet twice a month though. There's that much stuff to do. For me, that's not the issue. The issue was it says six o'clock on the calendar. It said 4:00 on my meeting from the from the last meeting that we left at 4:00. And then I
got an email stating 4:30. So yeah, I saw the six o'clock and I had that written on my calendars. Luckily, Sammy called today. It said 4:30. So, I could stop what I was doing and it wasn't on the agenda for some reason.
It's only on the calendar. Miss Palmer has joined us. Sarah, can you hear us? Oh, there she is. Hello. Hi. Hello. Hi. Thanks for Thanks for signing in with
all your swollenness. Yes, I've got my foot elevated, so I should be okay. All right. You can raise your foot for a vote if you like. Yeah. Good one. Um, we'll talk about uh we'll talk about scheduling and the next
meeting after we get through u the item on the agenda. What I'm going to do is go through a brief recap of what I think uh the committee concluded at the at the last
meeting. We did not have an opportunity um to send staff out and do an analysis as to how these proposed regulations would impact um the signage that is out there. uh when you have the meetings on
a two-eek basis, it it is a it's a tight time frame um for for us to be able to get that information. Um but we are intending on uh producing that information for you so that you will have that um you know before we formally
uh approve any aspect of the uh the sign code. Um but what I'm going to do is run through what I believe we concluded and the first thing and and this is um a
deviation from what is currently done uh but I think it is something that uh you all recommended and is that is that every single sign has to get a permit. Um there are
you know whether it is a special event sign associated with a garage sale whether it is a a real estate sign you know and I'm using those um content driven signs
because that's all what we understand but basically any temporary sign or any permanent sign even if the permanent sign is within the the framework of it's less than x square feet, you still have
to come in and get a permit for it. Now, the permit fees may be different depending on the extent of review that is necessary. I would not expect a 4 foot temporary sign to go through an
extensive review and cost several hundred dollars for for us to review. But it would be a permit situation so that the town would have the record as to when this sign went in, what type of
sign it was, and those kind of things. So that when our um code officers go out there or when we receive a a complaint um they're going to say, "Oh, well that is one of the three signs that are
allowed and it is this and it has gone through the the permitting process." If it has not gone through the permitting process, then it would be subject to removal. Um and you know how we would go about enforcing that um would always
depends on the situation. Um but this is one of those things where people may be subject to citations. uh because citations may work better for uh a removal kind of situation than having to go through the entire process of giving
them uh uh a code enforcement hearing that may be 45 days from now. Um, so let me just Can I So basically it's more it's kind of like a sign sight plan, right? That they're just submitting something to you that says
this big, this this tall, this wide. Not it doesn't have they don't have to say what it's going to say. Correct. And where perhaps it's going to go. Correct. And then there would be a fee associated with that. A one time one and done fee. Well, um it's not going to or is it
going to have to every year be or two years or what? How does that um the way I would envision it? For example, every time you came in with a a new sign, you would um pay a new permit fee. No, I
mean per sign. It's one and it's one and done. Oh, okay. And that's something that we can discuss as we go through. Like I'll take an example in some of the jurisdictions I've been in. So people who put for sale signs up. Oh. So uh they would make it six months with the
right to renew. So that way we were always checking to make sure that you know it was accurate that the house was still for sale or that there were still empty um retail bays rather because it's just easy to keep it there. Don't even think about taking it off. So I'm not
saying we're doing that there, but I did want to give you the option that it's not always a oneandone. Sometimes, you know, permanent signs are typically one and done. One and done. Okay. So, there would be categories. Signs are typically one and done, but then you have some of these other examples that you, you know, just that is just one example that you
may want to consider or some others. Okay, makes sense. Okay. Um, so I just wanted to make sure that, uh, we were all on the same page with respect to that. That was my understanding. Um the second the second point that we
that the committee made was that if you're in the AR district and you front on um Okachobee Boulevard, you are subject to exactly the same regulations. We're not
differentiating um despite the fact that Okachobee Boulevard is a different kind of roadway than most of the other roadways in town. Not if you're doing the speed limit. That's right. You got that. I just
I'm This is me just saying this is uh what we concurred on last time. Well, that's where I have a question about um our church has the sign there. I don't know if that's considered a billboard sign, but they change it out uh for Easter. They change it out for different
sermon services coming up. I mean, what is the code going to be for that? Because they've been doing this for years, and they're not ugly signs. They're not vulgar. You know, it says Easter services or we're going over this for these next four weeks is what we're talking about.
Okay. Right out in the front. First of all, with respect to the churches, and I' I've said that this is within the AR AR district. Uh some of the churches are
institutional, right? Um and you know like the schools um are are a different classification. They're in institutional. So we will we will talk about them. Um uh but if a church was in
the AR district and not institutional then it would be subject to these same rules and regulations. Right now it's institution as as a part of you know if that were to occur that might be the
incentive for them to go and say I want to I want to change my zoning classification to something that's more appropriate for what I am. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. Um, so, uh, third thing, all properties are
going to be required, um, to have their address posted at the entrance to to their property. Um, we we haven't we didn't talk about exactly the the size of the lettering and and those kind of
things, but we'll propose that. But that sign um doesn't count. That sign doesn't count when we're talking about everything. In the memo, I did it as additional, but that sign would not would not count. Um so on a standard lot
in which is 5 acres or more in size um you could have three permanent signs. One primary sign which would be limited to nine square feet
um in size and two secondary signs. Each of those would be limited in size to four square feet. The signs could either be freestanding signs or uh wall signs.
The height limitation on all of those signs would be it would be limited to six feet in height. Um, so that's the the standard. In addition to to those three signs of a
permanent variety, each property could have one temporary sign. Um, and that temporary sign would be limited to four square feet in size. And once again, it would have a height
limitation of uh of six feet. Um, yeah, I think that, yeah, sounds like and and on on non-conforming lots, which are those lots that are less than
uh five acres, um, you would be able to have one permanent sign. The permanent sign size would be a maximum of nine square feet and there
would be no permanent secondary signs. Uh but you could have one temporary sign that would be limited in size to four square feet. Okay. And once
again height limitation on all of these is six feet. Then we did discuss the idea that it was appropriate within the AR
district for people to have entrance gate entrance sign that would be elevated above. I you know I mentioned something along the lines of whether you want to call your place
retirement um retirement acres or you know Joe farm whatever lazy days lazy days any of those kind of things the idea you know it would have that ranch entrance type
signs that that would be all right even if you were not a farm per se because the size and characteristic of your property would be in line with that. Remembering that at an entrance it is to
a driveway um that very often is 20 feet wide can be um you know for example on easements and things like that we require that roadway to be at least 20 feet wide. Um,
and you would have to have a sign in that circumstance that is probably up at 18 to to 20 ft because trucks um have to get under it. Um, and when you put that
together and you have um the the lettering, the lettering is going to be something on the order of one to two feet, or else you're not going to be able to to notice it. when you look at that kind of a sign and we
didn't get into this this level of detail and we don't need to necessarily at this point in time but just understanding that there was concurrence on that that type of sign when you do the sign face area that's going to be
like a 40 foot square foot sign considerably larger than than the other ones that are here but different in character um and purpose arguably. So, can we say that one cannot be like a
banner or a poster board or anything like that? Yes, it would have to be a permanent sign like a metal sign. I mean, that can really get ugly. They are metal or aluminum. It would because they get pretty heavy.
We can we can t Yeah, generally um they are, you know, they are metal. They have to they have to be structurally sound. Um I've seen some lettering that is wood. I've seen some signs that are are wood, but um I suppose we could regulate
sort of its aesthetic by having the size of lettering be on our side. And but on that one too, we c can we say that those can only be the name of your farm or your address? Can can we do that? Is
that content limiting? We wouldn't be able to um get into the content, but one of the things you have to remember whenever you're doing signage and all those kind of things. There is all there they can be horror stories in
your mind about what people are going to do. Remember that these signs are not inexpensive. Um, and people invest in in things and most
people don't want to put up uh, you know, an obscene word or gesture. I'm not saying that it can't happen but you you you know you there is a an
element of trust and responsibility for people. Um so then do we so then moving on to height and things like that. I I vaguely remember we spoke about this lightly. Um, but are there are there any fire department restrictions that you
know that that that say it would be helpful if your driveway archway was at 16 ft versus 10 in case we have to get in there? I mean, is there do we know what those kind of height requirements might be? Is it 15 16? I was thinking
16. Most open houses are 15 16 ft or higher. Okay. We can we can explore a minimum a minimum height if you're going to do that. That's I mean a minimum and a maximum height because I don't think you want it to be 35 ft or anything like that. I think you're looking at it as part of
the entry feature, right? It's not assigned by itself. No, I think that lends to I think Carol was saying that you know if your feature is metal that's what it's going to be. It's going to have to look architecturally involved in that. Well, like what I want I mean I
hate to say it but colors matter. What it's made of matters. We don't Do you want a banner hung from two giant poles on each side of the gate? No, we can say more of an archway. Banner. What was that, Sarah? I thought
the terminology that we were using is archway or is this something different? It is, but it's not necessarily an arch. Okay. Usually is, but it doesn't exist. a permanent if we say if we use the word
permanent that ought to keep paper and vinyl in put a welcome home banner it's not going to be there forever you know just make sure you speaking to your mic so it's picking up somebody puts like a welcome home or welcome back banner which would only be there for a couple days or one evening that's not a big
deal but but that's a temporary sign requiring a permit and if with respect to to that u Miss plan is correct If if this got passed and adopted, temporary sign limited to four square
feet. Uh if we if we allow banners, we're going to get to that shortly. Um so those were the those were the points of um concurrence that I thought we had. What I did not uh mention that was
definitely something that everybody concurred in all signs will have to be maintained in a good condition and we will define that. Um and if you do not
maintain your sign in a in a good condition, it will be subject to enforcement. And I think specifying the range of materials that are permissible will help that too. So
we can be quite specific about maintenance on wood, maintenance on plastic, not that we want plastic, but maintenance on metal for example. But I think last week we just decided that if we said that they have to be
properly maintained, didn't Excuse me. then we then we wouldn't necessarily have to go down that route of specifically saying what every sign was made of. Am I right? Is that how Yeah, I
I think that's where we we the discussion as I recall was along those lines. Um because the there were going there were for a permanent sign there could be limitations on what the appropriate
materials were going to to be. Uh, for example, a banner, um, a a cloth banner, um, might not be something that would be permissible as a a permitted sign, but I didn't think we wanted to get
into all of the potential materials or out that are out there. Um, because it's going to be materials change and um, and technologies change. And so and so is
fashion. Yeah. And uh I mean it's you know but but we really what we're saying then is we're not going to be prescriptive about materials then. So it's not like doing the brand guidelines and I'm kind of referring back to the
round locks Groves um behind behind you Joe. I mean that is very for me that really represents the lock the town of Lockxahhatchee groves brand. It's wood. It's got an you know
it's got a suitable image etc. It's it's a it's representative of our brand. So if we're saying that we're not going to be prescriptive of materials, we're giving more leniency to to
everybody. But maybe we could say they take examples from the rural vista guidelines because there are materials suggested in there for base uh for frontage of buildings and building materials and what we don't like and what we don't want. you know, that might
help. At least with, you know, bigger signs, but I think in the AR district, they're probably not going to be building concrete walls or, you know, probably just a post in the ground. Typically, you could have
there's nothing that we've talked about that would prohibit um a monument sign. It would just be limited to the nine square feet. Um, and that certainly is a
I don't think we need monument signs in residential areas. That's that's too much. Well, you have walls out there. You some of the biggest farms, right? They have a 20 acre farm or 10acre farm have a grand
entryway with the big concrete columns. They could have signs on the front gates there. They Yeah, but they don't need to add a monument out front made of concrete. I think that's overkill. I don't think we need that. I don't know. I think if they follow the
the size requirements, it's going to limit their choices anyway. I mean, I think it's not going to be monumental. It'll just be a monument, right? It's not It can't get so big. Well, it nine square feet is not very
big. It's not, you know, what's it getting off the ground? Unless it's right. It's just going to be a totem pole. Exactly. Yeah. So, it's size matters.
Can I go back to something you said in the very beginning about sending staff out to look at signs so we know what we're Yeah, we had we had talked about we had I had talked about that at the the last meeting that one of the things that we
want to do um you know prior to formally approving any everything is have staff go out and take a look at the the signs in the AR
district and identify if this proposed if if these were the dimensions and um all the limitations were imposed, how many non-conforming signs are we going to to be dealing with because what we're going to have to to
get around to is an amortization schedule. Yeah. But I think that I mean truthfully, why are we worried about conforming to people when they should be conforming to us? Well, because if a
sign already exists out there and you impose um new regulations that make it nonconforming, you have to provide Yeah. an amortization schedule. Understand that. And so what you should do is
recognize how much of an impact you're going to to have. If it turns out, and I'm not saying that that it is, but if you if it turns out that every single sign in town is going to have to be
replaced because of the code that you have imposed, I would suggest to you that you have missed the mark as to what the community standards are. Um because if you tell everybody that within a
certain period of time, even if that period of time is 5 to 10 years, that they're going to have to replace their sign, then you know, then they'll replace the sign. You need to understand you no, you need to understand that. And what I'm
suggesting to you is you you don't want to impose arbitrary standards. You want to recognize in any kind of code that you're dealing with and especially a signed code, you have to understand what the community expects
and part of their expectations are based on what exists um and what they have done, what they have spent money on. Um some some signs and you know some s signs cost thousands
of dollars. Um uh and if you were told that you just put in uh a sign for $X,000 um and you're going to have to replace that in a year. I would be perturbed. Is that your
feeling throughout town? Do you No, I'm not. I mean, I'm just because I'm feel, you know, I'm I'm wondering if if that's your feeling and that there's a I mean, because I I mean, I get it thinking about the arches. Clearly, those those would be a lot. And if we didn't allow
those, people would probably be a little upset, you know, this is an exception, you know, and not an unwelcome one. I think they're lovely. I don't I like driving past and seeing lovely driveways. I like having them around. But I kind of agree that if if we're
being reasonable, not just following what they've done, I mean, they change traffic patterns all the time, people, you know, it it just has to happen. Yeah. My comment my my comments or the strength of my comments should not be an indication that I think
you missed the mark at all. That's not the the point of this. One of the things that I think you need to do and that we need to do is we do need to present the information and see what the analysis is. Um, and if it appears from a
sampling that, oh, you know, 90% of the signs that already exist are going to be just fine, then I would say to you, you've hit the mark. That's the that's going to be acceptable within the community. What would your percentage
be? 5050. I don't I mean really I'm just I'm curious because I mean we like would it I mean this is the problem on Nokachobee. I mean people don't like the 30 miles per hour but should we change it because they don't like it and they want to go fast and cause accidents? I
don't think so. I think we're slowing them down in our community for a reason. No, I'm just saying why are we going so they can read the new small signs? It is. Do we do we allow commercial now in Okchobee because some people broke the rules and put it there. You're
you're talking about you're talking about several several things going on, right? 30 30 miles an hour. I'll speak to it with 30 miles an hour is okay on Okchobee because it's within a municipality. 30 miles an hour is
probably not the appropriate uh speed on that road from an engineering standpoint. And when and there are engineering studies that go there. One of the things you do and people do, not me, but engineers that
are designing roadways is if you want a speed limit to be 35 miles an hour. You design the road in a way that people's natural feelings when they're driving are, I should be going about 35 miles an
hour. You don't put an autobon in. And I'm not saying that Okachobee is, but that's one of the one of the standards that go into engineering design. Okay. And so signs that are the same way. I just want us to be
aware of what is out there and what effect the potential regulation is. I think that's an obligation on us to understand the impact that the regulations that we're proposing will have. I don't know. I personally feel like we
make our recommendations as residents who live in this town. each of us in a with a different thought, you know, idea about it. And then town council can decide if that's the way they want to go based on then some information that's provided to them as
to how many uh signs are out of or would be non-conforming in in just me personally because if that were the way we needed to go, I feel like we should have had that to start with. Like here's the there's 75 signs that are this big. There's 365,000 signs that are this big.
You know, can we find a a middle ground to make everybody No. Am I wrong? Am I wrong? Like I don't No, you're correct. That's why I feel like we're doing things backwards. I feel like we're are we going to waste a staff's time going out and then we're going to come back and
rewrite all our stuff because you say 60% of people have signs that are non-conforming. Something else that sorry something else that we discussed was um a proposal of signs and material the materials deployed in those signs that we don't
want and I think that's an interesting area to look at and to kind of put a stake in a ground too because that also determines the level of compliance or non-compli non-compliance in in turn.
Well, that that leads us into um Karen and prohibited signs. Yeah. So, I gave you a list. The first page is the existing prohibited signs in our existing code. And I gave you the definitions because sometimes, you know,
we're used to dealing with it. People don't know what's a snipe sign. So, I wanted to make sure you kind of understood. I'm not saying they're great definitions, but at least I wanted you to have what was there. So that's on the first page and I gave three options. So the first column is it remains
prohibited just like it is. And most of and the prohibited they're just listed guys most of the time. So it just says snipe sign. It'll go balloon sign, you know, so there's nothing else included in it. The next column is you want to permit it. So it's presently prohibited,
but you want to permit it. no restrictions permitted. And then the last column is you're going to permit it, but you want to put some conditions on it. Um, you know, it can only be a certain time frame. I'm not saying I want the answers now, but you know, you might want a certain time frame or you
want it to be a certain size or whatever it is. So, that's the first page. Then the second and the third page are prohibited signs that typically other jurisdictions have that we don't presently have listed in our code.
as my job I felt was not only to tell you what we had but also what we didn't have. Now, most zoning codes, I'll be honest with you, if it's not listed, it's typically prohibited. But I wanted you to at least realize that there are
others that maybe you do want to list and not leave as vague as the argument is, well, I didn't know. I didn't see it on your list. Right? So, I didn't know. So, the same thing for those on page two and three. Would you like to prohibit those? Would you like to permit those?
or would you like to permit those with some conditions which we can discuss at another time? So the idea was for you guys to do your homework and to check them off. I did my homework and then we can either go through it tonight or I can tally it and at the next meeting we can come together and I can tell you
what everybody's tallying was so that way we could limit it just to if all of you are in agreement then obviously we don't have to have any further discussion. If there's uh a disagreement over something or not a majority, you tell me. Then we can go to those specifically. I leave that up to this.
And this Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. I didn't know if this was for commercial or for a visas that had benches and things in there. It seems so across the board. All of that, not only AR, but also now if there are certain ones that you want very specific that says
prohibited, then put prohibited AR and I'll know it's just for that. If it's just prohibited, it's prohibited across the board. Does that sound fair? Yeah. Yeah. And if it's if you wanted to go through them one by one, you you could. I I I did a I did a I ran through them
earlier today. So, if you guys want to take a minute or if you want to do them together, that Sarah, do you have you have this up on your I don't, but I'm happy to go through it together if that's all right. We want
time. not one by one signs that are inside of businesses, right? This is only what's outside visible to the public driving by or anything like that. Like like that ugly this old bait and tackle store that looks kind of hideous with all the millions of little
signs outside. If they covered that and they flipped them to the inside and you couldn't see them, then we couldn't do anything about it, right? It would be visible to the inside customers. Um, oh boy. No, I was just going to say a big one that window signs
um are something that we're going to to be dealing with if it is interior in the middle of the store. No, we're not going to to deal with that at all. I think most of these signs um we are talk you
start off talking about them from an outside perspective. Um but uh we will talk about window signs but the short to your answer typically if it's not visible from the public typically we don't regulate it. Right. Right. That's they can flip around on
the inside. Not like a lot of like um a lot of like department stores, they may have a sign on top of their rack that you can't see from the outside. I'm I'm not going to regulate that. That's an example of a nonregulated. But they could could they post all those signs still in the window and turn them
inside? Windows. No, the window's different that you're going to regulate the window. But yeah, some of these signs that's that's that's just commercial and industrial and stuff like that. Okay. Okay. So, animated signs I said remain
prohibited. Anybody else? Agree. Agree. Okay. Balloon sign. I said prohibit. Agree. What about there's a grand opening or something? I don't like balloons. Balloons are terrible for the environment. I'm sorry. I don't like
balloons. Kill turtles. I'm not talking about little balloons. They come down here. They can get a bigger sun. I mean, no. I just say no. If you want to if your vote is this one because sometimes they see those bigger balloons and you know they're not letting them go in the atmosphere. They just haven't. Is this
for permanent signs or temporary signs? This is typically permanent. Usually what you do is Robert the answer to your question is you usually have a temporary section and it usually indicates that balloons might be permitted under a temporary situation but overall you don't want them in. Now I'm not saying you have to Joe. I'm not saying but
that's typically where it would come into place because you don't want generally balloons to be out there forever. Right. Oh, absolutely not. Going into a canal system. Well, I think I think for this exercise when you're talking about it, that would be something um you know, you could say
permit with conditions, you might it might be acceptable as a temporary, but if the committee says no, then that'll be the the recommendation. So, uh that's the way I I would approach it.
How do how do you sir? How do you feel about balloons? I think they're terrible in many for many reasons. And you're a no. No, you're I'm a no. You want to Robert I think would would do per mostly
for permanent signs. Yeah, I'm not permanent at all for sure. Okay then. So So you would you would be okay on a temporary basis. It depends. I mean, you know, you've seen some pretty balloons and not huge balloons, but not the small ones you're going to let go and end up
in the waterways, but you know, they have the nice balloons with the banner saying, you know, grand opening. Yeah. But they can't be there for months or anything. They only be for like the first week of a grand opening. They take it down and put it away and and or it gets windy and it just goes away by
itself and two parts unknown. Rather than have a motion on each one of these, my understanding of the consensus of the of the rest of the committee is they would be opposed to balloons on a
permanent or a temporary basis. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. Then on to banner, which maybe they could paint a balloon on, but I feel like I feel like that one
could be with conditions as far as like a time like like you said, like a grand opening or, you know, welcome home, Bob. We're glad you're back from, you know, the office. I feel like those could have um a time period to them.
You're saying that they're temporary? Exactly. That they would go up over a weekend or Yeah. you know for you whatever Bob you know somebody's wedding is happening birthday party but on a permanent basis. No agreed.
Agreed. Okay. Bench. I don't know. I we I don't know that we have any benches, but I I don't hate a sign on a bench that would be something like welcome to
locksahatche groves or but if we can't if we can't do content then then no for me prohibited I said no I can't even visualize yeah I can't even visualize a bench
Um, other than, you know, they use the back of the bench and they put a an attorney's photograph and then they say, 1800. It's more like a city thing because we don't have any bus stops. We don't have any bus benches. Yeah. I can I can show you a picture of my
brother-in-law and uh the the sign that he had his insurance agency on and a homeless person used to use it and he would go out and say, "Hey, I'll buy you a sandwich if you go somewhere." If you stop sitting on my face, that's Yeah.
No. Well, no. For me, it's no, but I think about the LGLA that's is that considered and the town hall one that says meetings. That's usually a changeable copy. Is that what you're talking about? Like the sign that changes? Is that what you're saying?
Well, the um yeah, it does change a bit. Billboards are like billboards along I95. That's typically those large ones that are usually off premises that usually We don't want those in our definition. Typically, no big time. No. Oh, yeah. No, definitely not. Not something like that. But I thought any
sign that Okay. The definition, it's an off- premise sign usually. So, right. So, so LGA doesn't have a premise and we have a couple signs that I figured that would be considered a billboard. It may very well be even No, even though it's
not 5,000 ft square feet big, right? And for that I would I feel like you know town could you know you also advertise meetings at C road at B road D road and F- road right we do and you know or
those billboards again typically government for announcements like that exempt typically okay because it's notes of meetings so that would be my that was my provision so then no other than
Okay. Wobble sign. Wubble. No. Yeah. No. I just find them very tacky. I'm sorry. And and and then and then again a government sign would be exempt. Okay. Good. Then no.
Pole sign. So those are I don't really understand this one. So think of this. What's the sign over where boonies is? The two poles. That's a pole sign. Oh, not one pole with some a crossbar. It could be a one pole or two poles.
Anything that has a pole that has a sign attached to it. So, okay. Just for example, a real estate agent sign is a pole sign or does a pole have to be round? Like I don't know square. So, this is typically a pole sign. Pole. Pull. And
that's your it's attached by a pole. Okay. the polls at all. Is that a poll sign? Well, like the one at boonies. It's could be two could be could be one. Yeah. So, I feel like we should permit
those. So, the difference is typically a monument sign versus a pole sign. Those are usually the difference. Pole signs have space in between where a monument sign typically is solid and then the sign on top of the of the sign
monuments. So you that's look better and they're usually lower than pole signs, right? Because monument signs are the to the ground. They're usually a certain height, not too don't always have to be, but but that's the difference. Do you want that airspace? You want it's a look. Do you want that look of the
poles? Well, I'm going through my I'm going through my head through all of the zones through AR through AR and I feel like somebody should be allowed to have one of those if that's their taste. Well, you could put it with but I feel like in commercial then we should have some say because maybe that's not doesn't go along with rural Vista
guidelines. So would why don't we that one's tricky to me. Why don't we come back um with some examples of poll signs because I see what you're saying in the AR. I think there are a number of identification signs or farm signs. Um,
and I know that those are exempt, but the the same concept and they arguably are little pole signs, right? Or very little billboards. Okay. Apparently, skip that one. Projecting signs. Again, that's typically like your
theater signs that pop out. You know, you all here and there. These are projecting signs that come up. Yeah, that I had a question mark on that one too. So projecting outward from the building. Okay. Yeah, that's a no. Yeah,
that's I mean I mean because that speaks more city environment. Yeah, but not in a rural area like lock prohibited or these are the ones that are already prohibited. So you're just following what's already there, right? Except for then I'm just I'm
sorry. I just got to listening to all these things. If if this because it goes through all the areas. If someone agg has a wall and they have a flag pole sticking out at an angle, is that then
not prohibited? That is not defined as a projecting sign. It's not. No. Okay. Would be a flag. Fine. Perfect. Roof sign. No. No. That was clear. If I don't hear any nos, I'm assuming
the answer is a no. Okay, guys. So, all right. Uh, snipe signs. No. No. What sign? Stag sign. So, a snipe sign is like um you know those medals that are like really low like political signs are
typically snipe signs. Yeah. Yeah. That end up in the canal. No. Yes. Okay. Bad girl. Yeah. It's also a sign that might be tack to uh stop sign. Telephone pole. Stop. Telephone pole. three, those kind
of things. Middle of the intersection, uh, strip lighting. Can I get an example of that? I didn't have they didn't have it in code, otherwise I would have given you the definition. Okay. I'm just wondering where that would apply. Be like you have a sign and you have lighting that goes around the sign or
you have it on the building where it's a line of lighting that goes around. Yeah. You don't want strip lighting, you know, like white lines. But I'm thinking that strip lighting is lighting the sign. It's not the sign, right? No, no, no, no. I think I don't It's not a I think it's supplement to the sign if that's
what you're asking. Yes, that's what I'm asking. That's what I think. I don't think it's a sign itself. Okay, then. No, it's lighting. It's lighting to the sign. Think that. Okay. No. No. Traffic or pedestrian hazards? No. No.
Obscinities. Well, I didn't think you can do this. Well, then if that's the case, then it goes to the Supreme Court definition of obscenity. Um, which is something that is uh against community standards.
And as one justice said, uh you know it when you see it. Um but um you can you can put that you can put that in there. Um and it will depend and maybe it'll just scare him off enough.
Okay. Then leave that prohibited for sure right away. Prohibit public property. Well, wait. I'm sorry. Can we just go back one quick second? I had um underlined here yellow except as
specifically permitted in this chapter for the right of way sign. I don't um No. Do you recall what that is? Okay, good. We can take that off. Okay. Drag through that public property.
I say prohibit or keep keep it prohibited. Great. So this is was to consider. Yeah. Remember these are outside. So um rear of the building and typically some of the language is
there because sometimes the fire department needs to have so addresses and things like that are not impacted by this. Yeah. It says it gives you um an out for Yeah. Right. It what it just gets a little confusing. It says signs
identify the business address on a rear exit door located directly above the rear door. So So it's allowing an address, but it would not allow you to put the name of the business there or the fact that you know deliveries are
due back here. It doesn't allow any of those signs. It will only allow you to have your address. That's how the delivery people would recognize where they need to deliver. But if if it's just for that bit behind the businesses, it's not really a public thing where people are driving up in the back of these businesses. And as that's not
true. On some of these streets, some people's houses face these businesses. And as the fire department goes, lots of times you're in a hurry. You're not really paying too much that you said, "Oh, we're going to the feed store." Like they have that British feed sign on the back of the store. I don't see any problem with that. Yeah. And I don't
either when because it seems like to me we're having with this new shop center up here. There is no real front or back, right? There's a little bit of I'm driving around the building. I don't I'm not saying that you're allowed should be allowed to put signs all over the building, but if there is a back door, I
mean, Wawa says Wawa was over the back door and and I'm sure we've all been in restaurants, not necessarily here, but you know, designing for the future um where there are you can go either in the
front or the the back. You know, you have Can we regulate the size so it's super small? It doesn't need to be big. They're not driving by it, right? Right. No, exactly. I agree with that. Permit with conditions. Yeah. Bring back some potential language. Great. Okay. Like that.
A-frame signs. A-frames. Is that the same as a sandwich sign? Yes. A-frames because that builds the A. Exactly what it is. No. Leave them prohibited. And may Well, public announcements again is town, so it's okay. Right.
Great. Banner flag signs prohibited. No. Prohibited. Yep. Well, here's the big one. Off premises signs. I say that we keep them prohibit prohibited. No. So, here's the discussion. Okay. That Jeff
and I have had which is you have some agurism that you're trying to get to help the a functions here. the people who might have weddings on their, you know, on their in their barn. Uh, some of the complaints we have received is people don't know where to go because
there's no signage and they're in the AR district that has nothing. I'm not saying yes or no. I just want to give you an example of where maybe an off- premises has been discussed by some of the residents and have requested. So, I just want to put
it out there. I think a good idea for the town would be to put up their own uh I don't know if it's got to be a monument. It could be a a pole with cute little signs on it like looking kind of western or something but maybe people could pay to have their signs on there if they wanted
people directed. But to have everybody be able to put up a sign on Okachobee and Southern is crazy. Yeah, I I I agree. And especially it's then it's like you know where then they just have some they can put it wherever the heck they want. make a good website and put your address on there with directions.
Put it on someone else's sign or something. I I think that's not a good idea. I do like an idea of the of, you know, perhaps u you know, so what they're called is wayfairing signs. Okay. Um but the only issue that we've got to be careful here
is we don't have a lot of rightway in our roadways. Normally I would say that's typically how you deal with the situation, but think about how wide your streets are. It's not like we got a lot that you can install something like there. I'm just again being realistic. I'm still against it. I don't want to
see all the talking about at Ok. I mean, if the only road that this we're talking about is coming down Okachobee and whether you're going to go left or right on one of the letters, right? Same thing on southern southern too. Okay. You'll
get for the future picture in my head. People could literally and they're like, "Well, I go down F. How far down do I go? I I don't know. Am I supposed to stop? But then they have a sign in their yard right at their property. Correct. But people are just like, I don't, you know, did I go the right way? I don't
look it up online. I mean, again, we've had the discussion before about signage. People usually use their own phones to find it. But I felt I would do a disservice if I didn't let you know that there was a discussion that this was a concern that some of the businesses had
that were in the AR district. So, I wanted to bring it up. Yeah. It could still be no. That's fine. That's, you know, the committee rules, you know. Well, I mean, because I I would love to see the people in our community do well with their business.
Um, but at the same time, I don't know that just allowing ones who that that feel like they don't have enough exposure for a business that that I don't know how that's the town's responsibility. That could get tacky because it could get all over. Right. I
don't know how that's the town's response. I mean, like old days country signs used to be all up and down Southern Boulevard because we didn't have, like she said, a computer in your hand anymore. So, technically, it's antiquated and you can just pop in an address in your phone. It's going to take you right there. So, Sarah, what do
you think? I agree. I mean, I think more and more people use Google Maps or whatever navigation system to to get the address. Um, and I just think we need to be as decluttered as possible. Yes. Yeah. And I think maybe we can
suggest that because we realize that this is important to our town's people that we do find a way to maybe put up wayfairing signs that that and that would be my suggestion. I would I would be I'd stand behind that to go to council as opposed to just well too bad for you. That's not that's I mean I get
it. I I I get it. Got you okay? You feel the same way? Yeah. You have like a monument sign at the beginning like she was saying with that says, you know, these farms are way. Yeah. You see the
Cuba that way. As long as you're not driving down F road, then there's three or four signs for some down F road. I mean, no, maybe giving just make knowing that there's space on there for individuals and they can Yeah. Yes. I'd like to pay $10 a year to have my sign
posted on the town's Wayfair sign at FN Oi. Yeah, that'd be interesting. Mhm. Okay. Portable signs. No. Leave them prohibited. No. No. So, portable signs and vehicle signs are kind of similar. Yeah. I assume they're
No. B signs are typically like these. Not this. This is A-frames. These are typically these. Oh, yeah. I don't I don't like those either. But can I'm Wait, I'm sorry. I just got to go back to the um vehicle vehicular signs. What if
somebody's What if they're Okay, for example, Sherwin Williams, whose sign is in desperate need of paint, but um ironically, they have two or three trucks that they drive around to do deliveries with and then at night
they're parked in the parking spot. That is a discussion that you would it is that is not unusual. Many require them to park in the rear or cover it. They make a cover for the vehicles a lot of times. Not from the right of way that
you really can't see it from the right of way. That's okay. So would that mean prohibited or would that be with condition? I mean I think we'll put it with conditions and then we'll bring language back. Okay. and you guys decide you can mix it because there's also several there's, you know, trailers with
names on it. V-shaped sign is a no. Um, abandoned signs. No, abandoned signs. Get rid of them. Get rid of them. We'll we'll be back because it'll be the definition of what abandoned is, you know. So, we'll That's true. time under canopy signs, which you
presently have. some examples. The ones hanging down for example with the Okay, those those are the shingles like uh at this other Okay, again this is just other almost like the protruding signs though too. Instead of have protruding in front of the
business, it's just on the canopy above it. So these are typically you have a walkway and it's on the top where the walkway is. Those are those are under canopy or under awning type signs. It doesn't preclude out into the parking lot. No, they're just hanging there. So, as you're walking, you see the name.
That's correct. And And quite honestly, I feel I feel like that goes with our rural Vista vision, like hanging a shingle, you know? I don't hate those. I Okay. I don't hate them either. Especially the wood ones. They look really I like the wood ones. So, I think
Yeah, you can make them wood. We could see what we could do. Uh, expose neon tubing, neon signs, LED signs. Sounds terrible. emitting signs. No. No. No.
Any sign with exposed unshielded lights. So, it wasn't a definition. Um, so this is concerned on lighting. This isn't so much a sign. You don't want spot spotlight and kind of thing. That's because usually when you have lighting,
sign lighting, it's required to be um shielded. So, it's lighting the sign, not the air or the road, whatever it is. Batman. Yeah. Painted wall signs. So, this is like murals. I know. I don't have a problem with this. I think that would be with conditions. Obviously,
this could get carried away, though. Well, with conditions. I think so, too. You could do pretty murals or you could go something like you said some weirdo be obscene. So, we can can can we
say we can't limit content? Is it become because I it could look like graffiti. Well, that's that's part of the condition that you have to see what it's going to look like. Just like that ugly shed down the street would probably look nice with some western murals on the side of it or welcome to Locks Hatche
Groves. So, I think Jeff and I have talked about it and I think the way that you would have to address this is you don't define it as a sign, right? You have to define as like an architectural feature if you want to allow it then as a sign. No. Right. And subject
to Okay. Yeah. I don't want to see a bunch of signs painted like open. No. Open seven days a week. No. Again, some are no, some allow them with conditions. So, it's really Well, if if if at this point Can we say no and then
put it in architectural design? Well, that's what I'm saying. If does it have to move? Yes. Yes. Perfect. I can think of one, sorry. One example I do like of the archite of this mural ball paintings. you know,
when you come into uh Singer Island, so you leave Riviera uh and then you come into the beach area and they I think there are maybe two to three examples of some excellent murals, but I think yeah, you need to have um you know specifics
about that one. Um it can be done very well. I used to like the Publix. Publix for a while did a a number of them. Yes. And they had the mosaic tiles. Usually they tried to tie it into something to do
with the community. Yeah. But I think apparently the person that did it either there was something that happened. They passed away or whatever. I can't remember what the story is, but they don't do it anymore. Copycat signs. That's exactly what it is. It's a fake
traffic sign or a fake sign. Yeah. No, no, no. Awning signs. So that signs actually on an awning. Do we actually permit awnings? Like we have porches, but I don't think we permit awnings on our at
least commercial buildings. And so if I'm thinking maybe one of the u nursery trailers maybe has an awning, but if it were their address, you know, I wouldn't I would not be opposed to that. Different, right? But I wouldn't be
opposed to them let letting them put you say yes to that. They could put a lot of things on an awning or is that with conditions? Well, but I don't even think we have any I don't think we allow awnings. What I think of
um that this could potentially impact is um a restaurant with outdoor seating and they've got, you know, an umbrella or awning and that says Perrier on it or something or Pepsi or whatever.
I don't know. I just think it would look really tacky. No, I think an awning looks fabulous if it's plain, but I think if you've got any type of advertising, wording, signage, I think it just it's very distracting. Agree.
I don't know. I like the ones I like the ones downtown Manhattan that say, you know, the W, but you can't do con the W. Screw that. Electronic changeable copy signs. No. No. No. Will you allow it for
government? And I don't mean us. Typically schools like it. Well, I thought government was I thought institutional was separate. I just again, yes, but we could also restrict it. Oh, okay. So, I think you've got some of these restricted to
institutional. Palm Beach State College has one which we're not controlling them, but it's that type of thing. And I would just say no. I mean, we can't control some of them. I think Culver's actually might be their monument sign. I think the institution and the school were not
going to be able to control. So say no difficult to see where they're this could get carried away. Well, if that's for like their menu, their menu. No, is that a menu? And now this is the one I I think it's behind the truck sign.
But I think the truck is distracting you. the monster a shake up there or they can change things is my impression but went through the list and turn well
so any committee member comments that where we are um next next meeting oh sorry next meeting Uh Sammy, I think we had a meeting
proposed for this uh committee. Yes. And that's the 26 on Monday. No, it was not on Memorial Day. Memorial Day. No. Yeah. No, that's it was in June. Okay. And I And I think
um there was a date that we had discussed, but I don't recall what it is. Do you have it on the calendar? Except the last meeting I wasn't there. No, this was the other day when we were talking about meetings. But uh All right. Um so May has 31 days
because it's a knuckle. So I think staff is suggesting we we got really far along than we had expected. I think with the last two meetings, you guys did a great job. So I think we're suggesting that Memorial Day don't know about you guys, but I'm not working. Yeah. So, we
thought maybe we go to the regular meeting in June and see. Plus, I think that if I can give you more time between meetings, you can do a little bit of this homework so we can, you know, have that taken care of, too, if you need to. We have the 9th that's available. The 9th, I thought was what we were talking
about. Sorry, I was looking at the May calendar when you So, let's go back and because I'm not clear at this point what my homework would be right now. There isn't any. Oh, good. Then I am clear. We gave you all tonight. So the question is, is everybody good for June 9th at
4:30? I don't have my phone with me. What What day is that? That's a Monday. It's a Monday. Monday. It'll be Monday at 4:30. And is 4:30 good or Yep. Yeah, that's fine. That works for everybody. Yes. Um, and you already have a meeting
invitation on your calendar for that date, so it's already been Oh, there's an invite. Okay. Save. Is that going to be on the agenda this time? We're getting there. Okay. Yeah. And uh
I think we were talking about um uh do you want to do you want to do master sign plan that discuss that conceptually? Um or do we want to talk
about institutional next? commercial. Well, that's into the master sign plan. But so, is there something buried down on us that we should probably just dive into
commercial? I mean, that's going to be big, right? That's going to be a lot of stuff. Yeah. Will will institutional if we do commercial first will it sort of slide into place or does is it No, institutional has some interesting
issues. I think Robert brought up one. Uh you've got large temporary signs that are changeable at this point in time that exist. Well, Palms West has it. Community of Hope has it because they got Ruth's
Pantry over at Palms West and yeah, all the all the Easter signs that Christmas signs and all those kind of things and they are, let's be honest, they're temporary and they are banners or cloth, those
kind of things. Um, so they are they fall within the stuff that you're saying are prohibited um generally. And so it it'll be it'll be some issues. So maybe I don't know. Let's just think maybe there's a way to
just say institutional that that it's prohibited with provisions and institutional maybe still has to fill out a permit. I agree. I think and then most of them are pretty good about taking them down and up in a timely fashion. I think they're too large. They're huge. I agree. That's but
and that needs under control. Well, that I think it's something that we don't need to discuss today, but It is it is a topic for discussion. I don't know if you want to take that on first or you want to go to master sign plans which gets into um commercial things because
where what we're what we're going to be advocating is wherever you have more than one business you need to come in with a master sign plan. Agreed. Good idea. Does anybody have a preference? Sarah? No. Go with the flow. What did
you decide? What? What did I say? Whatever you decide. Oh, we're gonna leave that to you, Joe. I personally feel like we should just dive into commercial and and do it. I really do. Okay.
All right. Is that it? Do I have a motion to adjurnn? To adjourn. Second. I. All in favor? All right, thank you guys.
Well done. Thank you guys. Aaron, that was awesome.