WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=wHhs3ni3PEs

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: wHhs3ni3PEs):
- 00:03:42: Town Council Meeting Called to Order, Roll Call
- 00:07:12: Public Comments: Standish, Road Maintenance, Tree Policies
- 00:10:43: Public Comments: Austin, Airport Noise and Pollution
- 00:14:13: Public Comments: Shyola, Events & Airport Pollution
- 00:16:29: Public Comments: Siciliano, Transparency Concerns Voiced
- 00:18:33: Consent Agenda Approval, Item Five Pulled for Discussion
- 00:19:59: Item 6A: Discussion of Palm Beach Ethics Finding
- 00:21:46: Public Comment: Shore Responds to Ethics Accusations
- 00:25:05: Public Comment: McClendon on Dual Committee Holding
- 00:26:48: Public Comment: McNia, Email Record of Shore Directing
- 00:28:16: Public Comment: Miles, Past Ethics Investigations
- 00:31:37: Public Comment: Suchi, Advisory Committee Clarification
- 00:33:36: Council Debates and Approves Shore Appointment
- 00:38:11: Discussion: Special Counsel for Town Manager Negotiations
- 00:45:31: Motion to Move Forward for Negotiations Begins
- 00:46:38: Motion is put forward for accepting the town Managers letter
- 00:50:50: Councils Review of Attorney Firms
- 01:06:59: Town Council Attorney Interviews and Debate Begins
- 01:30:29: Public Comment About the Prior Process of Legal hiring
- 02:53:10: Level of Service and Legal Mechanisms Questions Arise
- 02:54:35: Public Comment: Robert Shore on Town Charter Violation
- 02:58:04: Public Comment: Frank Shyola on Law Enforcement Obligations
- 03:01:30: Public Comment: Tracy Raffleitz on Contract Misconceptions
- 03:08:17: Public Comment: Todd McClendon on Contract Negotiation
- 03:11:25: Public Comment: Manish Sujanani Presents Crash Data
- 03:15:44: Public Comment: Joe Stevens Jests About Santa Claus
- 03:16:16: Council Discusses Data, Legal Questions, and AG Opinion
- 03:24:53: Public Comment: Maryanne Miles on Contract Breaches
- 03:35:58: Motion for Contingency Fund Payment Passes Unanimously
- 03:36:31: Discussion of Negotiating Committee: Fails Due to Second
- 03:44:33: 20th Anniversary Celebration, Budget Request, and Discussion
- 04:07:03: Public Comment: Robert Shore on Spending Priorities
- 04:11:19: Public Comment: Frank Shyola on Resident Involvement
- 04:12:43: Town's Celebrations: Revenue Opportunities and Teamwork Needed
- 04:24:48: Sheltering Palms Conservation Easement Discussion
- 04:35:02: Divergent Views on the Sheltering Palm Easement
- 04:43:51: Public Comment: Conservation Easement Buffer Options
- 04:47:14: Public Comment: Town's Commitment To Charter Still Needed
- 04:50:30: Proposing Virtual Agenda Workshop Meeting on Wednesday
- 04:55:50: Staff, Attorney and Council Member Comments Begin


Part: 1

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Um this falls off. Would >> you like more light? Yeah, maybe. >> I'm asking it doesn't >> hold. Let me check. >> Show off. Thank you.

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>> One of these. >> No, we already had all those. Maybe they turned them. Maybe they're like >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. alarms. >> Thank you. >> No,

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I have them available wherever we have them. There's just the bigger screen pin those bigger screen >> so that way you can see everyone >> this

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>> you know you have to pin That mic on behind. >> Okay. 6 pm folks. I would like to call to order this meeting of the town council on April 21st and begin with the pledge of

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allegiance. >> I aliance to the flag >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible

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and justice for all. Okay. Whatever. >> And a moment of silence, please. >> Thank you. >> Uh, town clerk, if you could do the roll call, please. >> Council member Coleman, >> present. >> Council Council member Kaine

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>> present. >> Council member Stevens, Vice Mayor Sud, Mayor El Ramy, >> present, >> acting town manager Oaks, >> present, >> town attorney Kurtz >> here, >> public works director Lowour >> here. >> And community standards director Gardner

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Young >> here. >> For the record, um, Council Member Coleman is appearing via Zoom. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, town clerk. Uh, additions, deletions, and modifications. >> Staff. Nothing from staff. Anybody any

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council? Uh, council member Coleman. >> Yeah, I'd like to move number eight to the consent agenda. >> Eight to the consent. Uh, >> the compensation for the acting town manager. >> It's pretty straightforward. >> Thank you for that clarification. Uh,

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Mr. Curts, uh, can we do that? >> I I would be opposed to that because I have some discussion about that. I actually want to pull number five from consent and I have some discussion on eight as well. So, I would be opposed to moving that consent and I want to pull five off of consent. >> Pull five off, but we're not to consent

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yet. So, >> right, I'm just I'm just saying I would be opposed to moving eight to consent because I have some discussion on that. >> Mr. Coleman, >> I can see you got the Y. So, anything else?

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So, uh I think as we get to each agenda item, you're probably going to see that there's some additional handouts that have been provided and I think we will address those as additions when we get to those. It's not an agenda item per se. So, uh no modifications, deletions, or

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additions noted. Um I need a motion to accept the agenda. >> Motion to accept the agenda. Second >> Paul said Paul by the way on a bit of delay. So um >> I'll just wait unless it's pertinent.

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How's that? >> You should raise your hand. So anyh I have a motion to accept the agenda by council member Stevens seconded by council member Coleman and Kaine. All those in favor I I

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>> opposed hearing none. Motion passes 5-0. Okay. >> Be very unmuted. >> It is going to be fun. All right. So, uh we see tonight that the uh comments from the public on n on agenda items is back at the beginning of the meeting. So,

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I'll open the floor to any of those comments at this time. >> Madame Mayor, the first one we have is Virginia Standish. Virginia Standish North Road. Um, last meeting you had uh public works up

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front. So that is part of my uh con and then it got moved which um I realized over the years we have public service like fire rescue and PBSO sitting in the audience waiting to give their reports. So, if possible, I'd like to uh suggest

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that you have if you have fire rescue and PBSO in the house, they're on a everyone's dime. If they could get their reports out ASAP to you and if there's a quick uh I realize public works is very detailed and involved, but a lot of the people for the first hour they're good

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and then they drift off if they're watching or they leave. If there's a brief report on public works that can be done in the beginning and obviously your more detailed stuff towards the end, you know, contracts, etc. later, uh, that would be helpful to the public. Um, I

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would also like to suggest that on your website you have posted a clear and easy to read map of the town gas tax roads and the maintenance easements, uh, colorcoded

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instead of these. Uh so it's readily available to the public to buyers and sellers in this community. Uh there's been some questions about what is a road in this town to this day to the last week. Is it a maintenance easement? Is

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it a road? Different things are happening. And finally, I brought this up a uh several months ago and I'm bringing it back up again as the new council is seating. As seated, I am asking that the ULDC review the tree

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mitigation policies because basically it comes down to extortion in some cases when you're asking someone to pay a high fee and the next buyer comes in and because they did their site plan according to plan and life circumstances

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they have to sell and the next person can come in and clearcut. That's extortion aka exaction. I just think and maybe at the time instead of allowing clear cutting you may say you have to maintain so many trees on your property. So I think it's an opportunity

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to look at that. And then finally there was another topic brought up of if you have a 10 acre 20 acre 15 acre um they seem to be limited. allow them to instead of having to go through uh or be restricted, allow them if they

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can have four houses on their property, you know, whatever a 5 acre can do, the 20 acre can do. I'm just saying there's it seems like we need to go back through our UD cells uldc's with tree mitigation and uh building what can be done on our

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properties. Well, I you know, it's I think that it could be simpler than that. I I you know I listened to what was said and it's like it it's can be refined very easily. So thank you. >> Thank you

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>> madame mayor. The next card we have is Robert. I think it's Ashton if I said your name. >> Mr. Austin. Yes. Thank you. >> Sorry. Rubber Austin Hide Park Road. Um hello council and cong congratulations to our new members. This is an old thing I

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brought up years ago but right now it's actually a hot topic that many of you might not know about because of what's going on with Mara Lago. So there actually is the news on it and paying attention to it. Um I want to remind the town about our noise and air pollution from PBI. It's been in the news lately

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because of the moving flight patterns over from over over Mara Lago. So I took advantage of the fact that cameras would be there. And I've also done some more research and learned a few things over the years of complaining about this. When I moved out here in '95, I had no clue where the first 10 years or so we were here. I was directly under the

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flight path as a slower airport. Most planes turned over RPB to approach the airport. And rarely did they fly over us. Now they're getting busier and stacking up over the glades like Mi Mia and Fort Lauderdale do. And they're pounding locks at Royal Palm Beach with excessive noise sometimes at threeminute

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intervals. Everyone I've talked about under the flight path here are sick of it and the excessive noise. And I say unnecessary because other areas have had the flight path change contrary to what PBI's noise person will tell you if you complain. They blame the FAA and the FAA

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will tell you PBI controls 10 miles of airspace of which we are at the edge of. They point fingers at each other and nothing gets accomplished because most people will give up complaining which is what they want. We are also being poisoned by needless excessive air pollution admitted from the jets. Other airports enforce a glide pattern landing

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with or CDO or CAD is the same thing. They come in higher and they're easing off the throttle which has two benefits. They are a lot quieter and a lot less pollution. Currently PBI does step down landings which means they come down a little and then throttle up to hold their altitude until the next step down.

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I I call it like think of a dog dragging its butt across a carpet because that's what they do to us. Um, that's why we get so blasted in our quiet area is because they're throttling up and they're also dumping aerosol type fine pollutants on us that we're breathing in. Just Google health problems near

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major airports and you'll read about how even at more than 10 miles out, lower quality of life and short lifespans are a common thing. All of us are suffering from it whether we know it or not. If they get enough complaints, which is what they're trying to do for the residents east of the airport, they can force change, which is what we need to

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do. Also RPB the acreage and lockache groves also suffer from their do nothing and hope we go away attitude. At a CCAN meeting I heard a pilot from RPB ask why aren't they doing CDO land altitude landings because Royal Palm Beach doesn't need to get blasted included

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either. I have been offering for years to put a noise monitor on my property to show how terribly loud these low-flying aircraft are out here. The planes are lower and are still quieter at Benoy Farms than they are here because of background noise from the commercial area. We are often a dead quiet area

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which only amplifies plane noise which I think they know and don't want to be documented. Plus we need air quality monitors because from what I have read we are all getting covered with potentially deadly exhaust particles. The airport now has an easy uh online form for complaints that they started

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loading them up to daily for the people on the east and we could take advantage of it too. Planainoise.com at PBI before they turn in my MI MIA or FTL. We need to push them over a commercial area right here, Southern Boulevard, and have them do like they've done for other areas and controlled descent landing

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pattern to get rid of less noise and air pollution. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Madame Mayor. The final card I have is Frank Shyola. >> Frank Shyola, Marcel Boulevard. Um, I was here this morning at the um um the

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open house. I guess that that was here. Uh, it was advertised as donuts, pastries, coffee and tea. I found the donuts and I found the bottle of water. There's no coffee. There's no tea. There's no pastries. The donuts were

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actually from Enman's uh from Publix. Uh, yeah. I don't know if anybody here in the town knows, but we actually have three Dunkin Donuts within two miles of us and they actually have the coffee there, they have the donuts, they have the pastries. So, um, you know, maybe when you do something

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for the residents and you want them to come in and all that, you have something more than just a, you know, a few stale donuts. So, uh, and, uh, to piggyback on what Bob Austin had said that, uh, when we, uh, when planes fly overhead, they come over my house at Marcel and Fro,

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they're 1,800 to 2,000 ft high. That's not a lot. And anybody that has a a light colored car, all that black stuff that's up on top of it, that's from all the jet um, uh, exhaust that's coming down. It's on our rooftops. It's on our

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porches. You clean your your your porches. And all of a sudden this black stuff, people think it's mold. It's not. It's actually if you were to actually analyze it, which I actually took it in for analyzing. Yes, some of it is mold, but a lot of it has uh is jet A and jet B came up in it. So there is a lot of

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stuff that's coming down on us, you know, from above, and there's really not much we can do about it. But anything that can be done would be very helpful. Thank you. >> Thank you. Madam Mayor, we have one more. Jo Siciliano.

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>> Sorry, there are no public comment cards out front. So, give me just a second. Are we rolling? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Thanks. I just want to speak tonight really quickly on um

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uh transparency. There was a lot of talk about that in the campaign and being um accountable to the residents. And I think I'm just a little frustrated because one of the the first clubs out of your bag was to

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not just add nine items, but also vote on them, which effectively took away public's ability to have time to read on them and then comment if they would like to. So,

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uh, while it might be legal, it it it does fly in the fa face of transparency. And, um, I would like for you guys to consider not doing that in the future, at least allowing the public the opportunity to,

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uh, be able to look over those items. I mean, if they're that important to vote on right away, then they should be that important for the town to look at them and have the time to comment and either for or against, doesn't really matter. Anyway, I thank you for your

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time and I appreciate everything you're doing up there. I know it's hard work. Thank you. Oh, also the uh sheriff's contract. Uh >> that's an agenda item. >> It is.

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>> Yes. >> All right, then I'll comment then. Thank you very much. >> Y >> thanks, folks. >> Are we good? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. And uh hopefully we've got some new uh public comment cards out there. >> So, awesome. Thank you. That brings us

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to uh the consent agenda. And uh Council Member Kane, you you'd mentioned you wanted to pull five. >> I do. >> Okay. And anybody else on council? I'm sorry, consent. Council member Coleman, did you have anything on consent?

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>> No, I just wanted to add eight, but I conceded not to. So, >> okay. Thank you. Very good. All right. Uh since it's it's kind of in the same vein as everything else on uh the consent agenda, would you

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uh agree to move it to item 6A? So we have it right after consent as a discussion. >> I just have something that I want to make sure that Mr. Sue is aware of before he appoints this person to Okay. >> Let's put it on 6A then. So taking it right away. Five is going to go down to

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6A. So, I need a motion to uh approve the consent agenda with the change of five to six. >> A motion to approve consent removing item five. >> Thank you. Second. >> Second. >> Second. I have a motion by CA council

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member Kaine moving removing item five from the consent and a second by council member Stevens. All those in favor? I >> I >> I >> opposed hearing. None. Motion passes 5-0.

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>> That brings us now to item five under regular agenda as item 6A. >> Okay. I just wanted to go ahead. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure that Mr. Sud was aware of this Palm Beach County Commission on Ethics finding against Mr. Shore. >> Yeah. You're

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>> I wanted to make sure that Mr. pursued was aware of the Palm Beach County Commission on Ethics finding against Mr. Shore before he appointed him to a committee. So, I have it here for you. Of course, it's for you. You may have it. >> Um, and see whether he would reconsider that appointment or whether he wants to

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go forward with it. >> Can I? >> Yes, absolutely. >> I think I would like to give my appointee, Mr. shore an opportunity to respond and see what this is so he can explain give some context. Mr. Shore.

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>> Okay. Well, hold on. >> So, um can I get a motion on resolution 202631? Um since it's now come up on a regular agenda item, >> I make >> we can make a motion to table it so Mr.

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Shu has a time to talk to Mr. Shore about it. >> No, I I want to talk about it. right now. >> Okay. Well, that we have a motion by council member Cole to table the item. Do I have a second? >> I'll second that. >> Second. >> So, we have a motion to >> It has to be done publicly

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>> table and a second. Um, I will open it now to public comments on this item. >> Yes, madame mayor. We have Robert Shore. >> Robert Shore Road. Um, if you look at the findings was dismissed

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period. Look at the end. >> Not exactly accurate. >> Yeah, it was dismissed. >> It's not exactly >> with a letter saying >> it's a letter of instruction. >> Yeah. Letter instruction saying be careful out there. Hey, I'm talking. All right. You'll need to talk over me. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, if you read the conclusion, it

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was dismissed >> a letter instructor saying be careful. public perception, you know, is different. There was no nothing found. The word corruption is nowhere in the final dismissal

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because there was zero evidence of corruption and I proved that throughout the entire case. So, the choice was accept a letter or go in front of a jury. So, the letter was not damning evidence. So I accepted

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the letter. So simple as that. >> May I ask a question? >> We don't normally. We're going to discuss it amongst ourselves. >> Sure. Uh just so public understands, this letter has two pages that was given to me just now. Um it says in the last

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line, therefore it is ordered and adjudged that the complaint against respondent Robert Shore is hereby dismissed and a letter of instruction is issued um done and ordered by Palm Beach County Commission.

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Uh would you explain in plain English what does that mean? Letter of instruction. What does that >> the letter of instruction just said be careful public perception. >> Got it. >> You know what the the whole issue was is

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when they were paving roads at the time it was during COVID. We were short staffed and I rode around with a contractor with a gas tax map and showed even the roads on the gas tax

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and said, "Don't touch private roads. Here's the ones on the gas tax." And that was it. It was as simple as that. I had a copy of the gas tax map where I'd circled the roads because the RFP did not specifically identify roads. It just

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gave a number. It said X number of canal crossings and X number of road aprons. So part of the learning process from that is our RFPs are very detailed now. They show maps of the roads, details of

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exactly where the work area is going to be. So everybody learned from that to be more detailed so you don't get in a situation where you're trying to explain something that is not written in the scope of work. So >> that's all it wasn't as simple as that.

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>> Mr. Sher, do you also serve on Palm Beach County um appraisal board? You you are actively advising the Palm Beach County Appraisal Committee. Yeah, I serve on both the Palm Beach County Water Resource Task Force and the

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Palm Beach County uh value adjustment >> and they see all they have this in their record and still gave you that position. >> Absolutely. >> I I'm I'm still supporting your position. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any more questions? >> Thank you, sir. >> Thank you for your service. >> No questions. Thank you. Any other

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public comments on that? >> Yes, madame mayor. I have Todd McClendon. Todd McClendon. Um I'm surprised that he's still on the value adjustment board because I believe his dual is holding being on this committee and value adjustment board. So somebody might want to check that and make sure that that's

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acceptable because last time I read you couldn't be on two committees like that. Um there are facts in there in that letter that talks about where he mis mis abused his position. He just said he was directing him as to where to pave and

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not pave because of uh gas tax map. Don't pave here on private property. Pave here. That's directing. And that's exactly what he was told not to do. And he's still justifying it, saying what he did was fine. He was directing the contractor where to pave and where not

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to pave. And I know you weren't involved back then, but they were supposed to be paving B-road. They had extra asphalt. And he said, "Oh, come over here. I got a friend that lives on this street. paved this street for him. Not on the not on the agreement with the contractor

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or anything. And off down this road, they start paving to his buddy buddy's house. That's why he got in trouble. That's why he got this letter of instruction saying, "Do not do this again." It's typical with these ethics things where they come to an agreement

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where you just get a slap on the wrist. And he got a slap on the wrist. This isn't the type of person that we want on our planning and zoning board. This is not what we want. We need to be above on this committee. Thank you. >> Thank you,

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>> Madame Mayor. The next is um Phyllis McNia, Phyllis Manilia, Lockah Hatchee Groves. Um, so I did speak with Ranger Construction. Rangers Construction had

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their go-to person was Mr. Short. He was directing them and there's an email regarding that. So if you want transparency, you need to read that entire document because also Mr. Shore and Mr. Peters were also called in that

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document not reliable witnesses also. Okay, Mr. If you want Okachobee Boulevard commercialized and widened because he's right there with Sarah Baxter, then put him on the planning and

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zoning committee. Mr. Shore has no idea about the values of this town cuz what he buys and sells his properties for do not seem to be what the rest of us buy and sell our properties for. I'm all for

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somebody making a profit and getting a good deal, but I also feel that some of our elders could have been treated better in this town. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Madam Mayor. The last card I have is

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Maryanne Miles. >> Oh, and they're going to want their checks. Maryanne Miles B- Road. I can't believe this is coming up again. Um, it's been years now

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and I got wrapped up into that crap and so did all of B-rode which I couldn't vote on because I live on B-roll. And if you want to open up a big can of worms, go look at the lawsuit for B-roll

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and find out why and who were involved. with the stopping of the paving there and the result of FPNL pulling out

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and not doing the underground of our town. Um, I got pulled in as to testify and I also got pulled in through my own

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because they go through, if you're ever under ethics, God help you because they go through and they Google or search everything that your mouth says. And if somebody says B, doesn't matter where on

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B, could be north all the way to southern, you are accused and you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. They don't look at the findings. You

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have to prove your innocence. I got charged with something that happens on South B. Well, my findings were the same end as Robert because you either take it to the next level

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and pay and go to court and the money that you've already spent to do that to defend yourself up to that point. You don't get reimbursed. Robert tried it. I tried it and Laura tried it. Town

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council could not represent us because they represent the town. So, we had to go through outside counsel and I can tell you Robert's bill and Laura's bill was way over mine and mine was almost my year of salary sitting up there to

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defend myself over something I didn't say and I can't say now. All I can say is it was a property, two properties on South B and I brought that up to them. My point of this is stop going after the

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witch hunt. We have good people here and you guys will find that now when you open it up and you say a word on your road that you live on. Be careful. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Madam Mayor. I have one more card.

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Cassie Suchi. Cassie Suchi, I need to make some points of clarification. Generally in Florida, a person cannot sit on a value adjustment board or municipally advisory committee simultaneously if both are considered

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offices and exercise sovereign power due to the state's dual office holding. However, the key here is the municipal advisory committee. In 2024, the council made all advisory committees in the town of Lockxahhatche Groves advisory only,

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thus eliminating them from the requirement for being an office. The value adjustment board is a civil office of a monument and a statutory body that makes decisions. Municipal advisory committee such as the

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committee that any of our committees in our town do not they do not have any decision-making availility. They advise only. So because they are purely advisory, a VAB committee appointment and an advisory committee appointment do

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not conflict and do not violate the constitution. And I just wanted to add there was a point made about the lawsuit on B road. Okay? It had nothing to do with people at the end of B- road cuz three people on the pave section were plaintiffs and FPNL pulled out because

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they were given a blanket easement that they said the town owned 13 ft from the center of every road and it came down to somebody that lived on collecting canal that questioned that easement. So they begin to question it as well. So I just wanted to clarify. >> Thank you.

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>> That's all. >> Okay. So, uh, any further discussion on this item from council? We have a motion on the table to a motion on the floor to table the item. So, >> I I resend my motion. I was just mean we

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didn't have to go through this big long discussion that he could have a conversation. So, you could open the floor back up for motions. >> Okay. So, the floor the motion has been rescended by council member Coleman. Do I have a motion on the floor on item uh

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6A now? Resolution 202631 >> second or accept the recision. >> Oh, we have to we have Okay, so we have >> make a second to accept the resision. >> Okay, >> that's then it's rescended. >> The motion is rescended. Thank you. Thank you for that clarification.

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>> So I need a motion. >> Great. >> I think Mr. Shore u >> I need first I need a motion. >> A motion. >> Would you like to make a motion? >> I would like to make a motion to appoint Mr. Sure to the committee as it's listed in the

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motion 6A. May I have a second? >> So So you you have a motion to to approve resolution 202631. Thank you. Do I have a second? >> I'll second all that. >> Thank you. >> A second on that. >> Okay. May I say a few words? >> So now discussion. Yes.

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>> Mr. shore represents a major part of our town's progress. He has served this town very well. I know we have disagreements. When I came and got involved, I know I had disagreements, but that's what the life

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is. I think he brings unique expertise, unique skills, unique understanding and it's not a coincident that he has been uh brought in by the Palm Beach County to make very complicated decisions. He looks at the things that are beyond

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typical magistrates and beyond that in that particular body that he advises on. So I have had extensive opportunity to get to know Mr. Sure. Get to know his family. He is a major

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uh major part of the progress of this town whether we agree or not in many other respects. So I would say let's move forward. Let's in the spirit of bringing everything together. The letter clearly says and I'm reading this very letter that I just received and I would

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say that this could have been given to me 2 days, 3 days ago but everybody waited until the last minute. That tells you something. So it says in the end ordered and a judge that the complaint against Mr. Shore is hereby dismissed.

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It is dismissed. Um he's he is working with county in a very important capacity. They looked at everything. Yeah. And therefore I would like to move forward with the votes. >> Okay. Can I

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>> Yes. Now sure. Um, so I find it kind of amusing that you're saying something about bringing something at the last minute to a meeting, but whatever. Um, I just going to go ahead I was trying to avoid this embarrassment, but I'm going to go ahead and read this out loud. Accordingly, the

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investigation revealed that respondent went beyond using his position for legislative powers, ceremonial matters, or signing or executing instruments or documents by using his position as town mayor to actively choose specific streets in the town to receive

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townfunded road paving, that's your tax dollars and mine, which resulted in certain entities receiving a benefit when such actions were inconsistent with the proper performance of his public duties. Those were the findings of the investigation.

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How it was resolved to be resolved without litigation is how it's typically resolved with ethics. All I was trying to do, Mr. Sud, was bring this to your attention and make you aware that you are appointing somebody who has this in their background. You have the right to appoint anybody you want to and to

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support anybody you want to. And it has nothing to do with disagreements or agreements or who gets along or who doesn't get along. It's just what character do we have on want to have on our committees. That's all I have to say. Thank you. >> Thank you. Any further comments by council?

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No. We have a motion to approve resolution 202631. All those in favor? >> Yes. >> I Paul I >> Okay. Opposed >> I.

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>> So uh motion passes 41. >> Congratulations, Mr. Shaw. So, that brings us to uh regular agenda item number seven. I'm going to defer to the acting town manager on um what is proposed here on this item.

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>> Yes, mayor. Thank you. Um in accordance with council's direction, staff conducted outreach to qualified legal professionals with experience in municipal law, employment matters, and executive level negotiations. The purpose of engaging independent council is to ensure that the town's interests are represented in a manner that is

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impartial, legally sound, and consistent with applicable laws and best practices. With us here today in person is Mr. James Stokes of Stokes Law, and you have been provided his hourly rate. Uh Mr. Brian Cooji of Alan Norton and Blue is

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available via Zoom. And Janica Simpson of Grey Robinson is also available via Zoom. >> Okay. So, uh, you were proposing, uh, to pause the meeting and >> if the council would like to meet with each of them individually, we have

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things set up. Um, we have rooms set up so that way you can speak with them. If you want to do 5 minutes, 10 minutes, if you want to ask them questions now, you may. It's at your sole discretion. Uh and so just for the public, uh this agenda item is is something that uh the

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current town attorney has been recused from and uh we were seeking uh special counsel to negotiate with uh the town manager regarding accelerated leave. So at to date, council has not spoken with any of these individuals and the

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opportunity to speak with them individually is something that um I would support. I don't know where my fellow council members uh stand on this >> about each of us getting five minutes or going as a group. And I just want >> individually >> I make a motion that we table this until

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the next meeting so we each have not five minutes if we desire more than five minutes. >> Okay, I'll second that. >> Okay, we have a motion to to table by council member Coleman and seconded by Council Member Kaine. Uh, Vice Mayor

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Sue, do you have a comment on >> on how we're going to propose to do this this evening? >> Let Hello, residents. Let me explain to you why we got here and why this is important. Our charter, you just voted that with a

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vote of 32, we could let any town manager go. But our previous council, our previous council gave special things to the previous town manager. So we are here today and this is the previous council that

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added those special protections and we have to now manage them responsibly. Our goal is three-fold. Ensure a fair and legally sound process. And I admire and thank Madame Mayor for having the

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courage to do what's right on the very first meeting. Second, maintain transparency and compliance. I would like to ask some questions to these lawyers. I know the other side is watching but we are public. That's fine. Their lawyers are

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going to see what we ask. I would like to suggest that few questions we ask each of the law firms. We give them some time and let them present. Public here, residents here have a role to play. They should hear their answers

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and we have to position the town for a responsible resolution. So with that being said, my suggestion would be let us have each of the law firms come here, introduce themselves, let's ask some question

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publicly. We exercise judgment because we know certain things we have to discuss privately around this litigation. But we should ask those questions and then if somebody wants to have extra time with them, they are welcome to spend to do so. But I would

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like to ask some questions publicly. Thank you. >> Okay, Council Member Stevens. Yeah, I think I um Councilman Suit, I think that's a wonderful idea just to get some things out there so that uh so many people watching and paying attention to this and to make sure that

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we get it right and to hold us accountable for our decisions. So, I will support um your idea. >> Okay. >> Let me let me I'm sorry. Go ahead, Lisa. Go ahead. >> No, go ahead, Paul. >> Let me be clear. I'm not saying that we

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should negotiate in the in the in the shade. Okay. I'm I'm I'm getting real tired of the implication. I'm not saying things shouldn't be transparent. I'm saying that when you interview a potential employee or whatever things are you ask those questions in private,

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you don't ask those questions in public so the other guy can hear what this guy's answer is. He might have a totally you might ask him if the card in front of you is blue and it might be a purple it might be a purple thing and he'd go, "Oh, yep. It's blue." The other, you know, it's just it doesn't make any

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sense. If you want to ask give them a list of questions, we'll send them a list of questions and bring them back to the next meeting. This is this tonight's supposed to be a workshop meeting anyway. It's not supposed to be a regular agenda meeting. And to say that we're going to interview these people right here and right now, that's that's

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that's I I think that's a very very big miscarriage of what we're doing. And it's not fair to them. It's not fair to anyone. It's not fair to people who just found out about this meeting two days ago because it wasn't, you know, we it was decided last week uh at the last meeting that this was going to happen.

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So, that's my thought. >> Okay. Thank you. I I do obviously have concerns about questions being posed in the public realm as far as as a negotiation. Um, I I don't feel that it's an issue as far

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as stepping into a five minute brief one- on-one with each of the potential negotiators. I'm sure that this was a suggestion that was made by the acting manager. So, uh, we were not speaking about some of the concerns publicly. Uh, there are clearly

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some elements to this contract that make this incredibly difficult. uh so trying to walk this very fine line. I think that if we proceed with discussion with each one of these negotiators publicly,

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I caution council members to you know keep it uh very tailored uh regarding >> I think the motion that's on the table is to >> I understand but the motion is and regarding you know getting together individually this is our opportunity. I

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think this is a timely matter that should not wait for a meeting in two weeks. I think that this needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. So, we have a motion to table this item. Um, we have a second. Uh, any public comment on this item before I proceed with a

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vote? >> No, madam. >> No. So, um, we have a motion uh to table. All those in favor to table this item? I >> I >> uh opposed. >> Opposed.

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>> Opposed. Motion fails. 23. So I need a motion to move forward on this item as far as how are we going to address this? Uh are Vice Mayor Sud, are you proposing that we have a brief public one and then we break? >> Yes.

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>> Briefly to meet one-on-one. Okay. >> So would you like to make a motion? I would like to make a motion to pursue item number seven, rightest minute, and give an opportunity for public uh questions in a very careful me fashion

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as mayor recommended and then have an opportunity to ask more sensitive questions individually. So with that, um >> so motion to proceed with item seven. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> All right. Since we've discussed this

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already to table, I feel we can move on to a vote. Um so motion to uh move forward with item seven. Uh all those in favor >> I >> I >> I >> opposed.

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>> Motion passes 41. >> Can I make one more suggestion? >> Sure. Um, one action that we didn't take at our last meeting. And I think this might give us some room to proceed with a little bit more clarity for the people we're about to ask questions of is we have not made a motion to accept

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officially accept the resignation that the manager gave us because everything was kind of, you know, rushed and everything. So, I think we actually need to Jeff, am I correct? We need to make an official motion to accept. >> He's he's recused from this. He can't speak. I I would I would argue that we

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did. I would argue we did because we agreed to negotiate an accelerated leave, >> right? But I think we need to have an official would it harm to just make a motion to accept her resignation? Okay. So, I make a motion to accept her resignation as tendered.

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>> Do I have a second? >> So, we have a motion to accept the town manager. I wouldn't call it a resignation. She submitted a retirement. >> Retirement. Yes. >> So, would you like to correct your motion? >> Let me correct my motion.

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make a motion to accept the manager's letter of retirement. >> All right, we have a motion to accept a letter of retirement. Mr. Coleman, it sounds like you want a second. >> Yes, ma'am. This is going to be very difficult. I'm losing signal in and out. So, >> thank you.

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>> We have a motion. >> Yeah. Okay. We have a motion to accept the retirement and a second by Council Member Coleman. Uh we have a a light on up here. Vice Mayor >> S. May. So I I would like to go a little bit deeper here. So are we saying receive

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and file or are we accepting? Accepting meanings whatever she proposed we are accepting. I'm not accepting that. >> No, we're if you're saying received and file yes we can do that. >> Is that good? >> I I believe we did a receive and file or

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something to that in the discussion of the item. So uh are you >> good evening ladies and gentlemen? Welcome to the Wellington Wolverines den and the semifinal district semi-finals here tonight. >> Hey Paul, you're not you're not muted.

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>> I told you it's acting funny. Sorry. >> I think we all know where Paul is now. >> That was awesome. >> Listen, when you volunteer for stuff, guys, you know, it's just one of those things. So, Council Member Kane, are you rescending your motion?

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>> I'm not rescending my motion. If it's a matter of semantics that makes Mr. Sue concerned, my motion is that I don't feel that there was an official action where we acknowledged and accepted the the former town managers or I guess she

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is the town manager, the the atome town managers uh letter of resignation that that was just kind of glossed over. I think that we need to have an official acceptance of it. So that's all I'm saying. >> Okay. So I I would um align with the

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vice mayor sue that there's a receive and file on that document. The document was extensively discussed that evening and the town manager agreed to an accelerated leave which is how we ended up with the negotiator selection tonight. So um do I have a motion to

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receive and file or I guess we have to find out if the motion on the floor passes. So, motion to >> repeat. Well, >> yeah. Motion to >> motion two to see. >> Hold on. Hold on. We have a motion on the floor to accept the letter of retirement u by council member Kaine,

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seconded by council member Coleman. Um, do I have any public comments on this? >> No, madam mayor. >> All right. All those in favor? >> I >> I >> opposed. >> Opposed. Motion fails. 23. Uh, a second

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motion on that. >> I would like to propose a motion to receive and file the letter submitted by the town manager. >> All right. We have a motion by Vice Mayor Sud to receive and file the letter of retirement submitted at the April 7th meeting by the town manager. >> Second.

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>> Second by council member Stevens. Any further discussion? >> No public comment. >> No ma'am. >> No. All those in favor? I I >> motion passes 5-0. So, uh, Valerie, I

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will leave it up to you to um have these folks step forward, Mr. Stokes. >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. >> Mr. Stokes, I would say you have to speak very closely to the microphone to be heard. >> Okay. >> Thank you.

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>> Would you like a little presentation or I mean just tell about myself, tell the public about >> We do have some backup. I think maybe a little bit about just if you could elaborate more on what >> I've I've been a local government attorney and a labor and employment attorney uh my entire career. Um, I

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started my adult career as a deputy sheriff uh out in Southern California. Did that for 12 years before going to law school. Came out of law school, worked for the Los Angeles City Attorney's Office, and then upon moving to Florida, stayed in the public sector. Um, I've been city attorney for a number

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of cities. I am board certified by the Florida Bar uh in both uh city, county, and local government as well as labor and employment. Um back in about 2011 um I started um a career as a labor

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arbitrator, employment arbitrator, and then some commercial arbitration. Um so I've been doing that as well. Um I've handled uh a lot of executive uh labor matters, employment matters, contracts, both getting into them and getting out

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of them. Um, and when I was called about this, um, I I, you know, said absolutely, if there's any way I could help the town, I I certainly would be willing to do so. Um, I did see in the agenda the other two firms uh that uh that applied. Uh, I'll tell you, they're

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both excellent firms. I've I've worked with attorneys from those firms. They've appeared before me. I've hired them as outside counsel. Um, I think you'll be well suited who whoever you get. they, you know, as attorneys, as professionals, we know what we're called

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to do. Um, and, uh, and I think any, I mean, honestly, you'll be well served by by any of your choices tonight. So, >> okay. Any comments for this gentleman? >> Yep. >> Questions? >> Mr. Stokes, thank you. We appreciate you

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expressing interest in working with us. Um I was told once that nobody wants to work with this town and now we have the best law firms and the top lawyers coming to work with us. That tells us something something. So thank you. Your resume is very impressive.

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Uh I would like to ask you very general questions and please your jud your judgment um because we are in a public uh situation we will ask you same questions privately or some more. Uh have you represented a municipality

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like us in the similar situation where they had a town manager or equal and executive on administrative leave under similar circumstances? >> Um yes yes yes I have. >> Okay. Could you tell me a little bit

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about in general words what was the outcome and what were the legal risks in that situations that you managed? I'll be extremely candid here. The reason charter officers have contracts

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the way they do um is because most uh governmental entities, local governments, cities and counties don't want to get into this place. Um and that's why an exit strategy is built into the contract. Um, I have had

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situations where somebody has been let go, a city manager, and um, I as the city attorney have had to negotiate with them. I've had similar issues where there was concern about conflicts. I had one city where they didn't want to appoint the assistant city manager as

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acting city manager because they thought he was too closely aligned. Um, and uh, so I had conversation with the council members and told them, well, that's the assistant city manager's job when they're working for city managers to do

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what they need them to do. Um, and you have to trust people as professionals. So once he stepped into that role, he was just fine. Um, it's usually not worth the fight to try and avoid whatever severance provisions

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in there. And I'll be honest with you, you're probably better off just just doing what the contract says than hiring any of us firms to bill you hourly to to fight over something that should have

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already been predetermined in the contract. I mean, I'm just I'm just being honest with you. >> Understood. What mistakes do municipality in your experience commonly make in a situation like this? it. Usually when when the when the fight

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starts over things that were done um and you know trying to to establish cause, it usually just brings more negativity and more negative light on a municipality than in most cases already

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exists. Because usually if you've gotten to that point, there's been a breakdown somewhere. So you're already being criticized. And I mean it's it's the epitome of airing dirty laundry at that point that you're you're going to because as you know this all has to be done in public. >> Last question.

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>> How would you balance continuing investigation if we choose to do so while also negotiating under contract? How do you make that balance? Oh, I that I think that as far as what >> investigation >> doing the investig

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there are the one of the if in the explanation we provided there were pending investigations and the there is a notion that we can settle it but I'm asking how did you in that situation you handled how do you decide

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investigation versus negotiating under contract >> I mean you know it it is kind of a seamless web when you're looking at what's what the facts and circumstances are and then working out some sort of exit strategy. At the end of the day, it

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falls back because this is a charter officer, it's going to fall back in your hands. So, you know, the best role I could do is to try and what I would do is I would want to meet with each of you first to see what your issues are with the with this town manager and what

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happened and try and find out what you could live with. Um, and then after doing the investigation and negotiating thing, trying to find something that's going to be amanable to you as council, as collectively as a council.

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>> Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, Anita, you got your >> Yeah, I do. Can you give me, and I'm not asking for an exact figure because I know you can't, but can you give me based on your vast experience here, a ballpark figure of what

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negotiating for an exit would cost as opposed Well, give me, let me do a two-part question. An approximate of what negotiating cost is. Are we talking $5,000? Are we talking $10,000? I mean, rough roughly. And I'm not holding you accountable. And

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it would have to be rough because I don't know a lot, you know, and and I watched your last meeting after I was contacted to to see what happened and and and got a little bit when I got the phone call, >> but I still, >> you know, publicly a lot of things are

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still very cryptic. So, and still until I really start digging in, I don't know how how people exit, but I think it would be reasonable to say between five and $10,000 in in that range probably. Then can you give me if you are asked by

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this council to do an investigation to look for cause, what do those standardly run? >> Again, >> and again, based on your experience, I'm not asking for exact numbers. I'm not going to say, "Oh, you said $20,000. We're not paying you anymore." I'm just

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asking you. >> No, I could I could see it being a possibility of exceeding that $10,000 mark. I don't think it would go too much harder, but it's going to depend on how many people are involved, how many interviews need to be done um and and things like that in order to to compile

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the facts in order to do this. So, um >> so cost more. It would I mean it would >> I mean negotiating I'll be on negotiating just the separation um you know and and I don't know the town man I I actually don't know anybody uh here um

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so uh I don't know by the way yeah I realize that that was by design um but uh you know the one thing she has is a contract that calls for a 20we severance um if you're going to overcome that at some point.

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And I haven't read her contract either, I will tell you. Um, but if you decide to go like, "We've got cause. We're going to show the cause." >> If you do that, it it very likely won't stop with an investigation. And and what it would do is could very likely turn

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into that could last years. >> Okay. And that could be years before there's what what happens in that case is the separation since she's given us a letter of resignation, right? that that her resignation date is September 31st. September 31st. If if

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this council chooses to get involved in litigation, does that drag her term on? Like how how does that work? Does that >> Well, no, because what you would be doing is, you know, as as the majority of the council would have to be terminating her for cause under her contract, I'm assuming, like I said, I

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haven't read a provision for no cause with the severance. Provision for cause with no severance. you would be terminating her with cause, >> but that's the cause that you've decided there is. She would still have the right to challenge that in court. I mean, she

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doesn't have to take your word for it. She doesn't have to take my word for it. She can take a a jury or or at least at the very least the circuit court judge's uh word for it. So, so a breach of contract would probably be what would follow. >> Thank you.

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>> Nothing else. Uh, Council Member Stevens, >> no, you you haven't talked yet. >> Round one. >> How you doing, sir? Thank you for being here. And everybody, hi. Uh, just a quick question. Um, and I actually thought about this as I was driving home

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from the last meeting um, a couple of weeks ago. In your opinion, just straight opinion, uh, would we be better off if we went with a mediator? Time, money, cost. Would this be better off through a a mediation service? Because I

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know a lot of mediators are tired judges and been in the business for years and years, tons of experience. Only reason I'm bringing this question up right now is because you mentioned that you have been involved in something like this before. And of course on this side, I'm thinking time, I'm thinking money, best interest of the town, right? So your

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just your thoughts. >> Well, my my personal opinion of mediation, it's it's it's a good tool and it works. both sides need to have the willingness for a little give and take. Uh they always say that, you know,

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a successful mediation was was when both sides walk away upset at the deal they agreed to. Um that if one side goes out happy, then it wasn't a fair mediation. Uh the the the problem you're going to have is that, you know, you could you

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could spend weeks and weeks on a on scheduling a mediation because there's a lot of moving parts to that. you finally get that mediation scheduled and if you don't come to a conclusion, you go to impass, we're right back to this spot again. And uh and we see that as

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attorneys, we see that in litigation a lot where you know the courts force you to mediation. You go, you sit down, you go, well, I'm not budging. I'm not budging. And then it kind of goes to impass and and so it's kind of a practice and futility. >> Thank you, sir.

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>> Thank you. Uh, Council Member Coleman, would you like to ask any questions of Mr. Stokes? >> Yeah. Um, just how often I mean, if you can, um, when you see a when you come into a situation where there's been numerous, uh, complaints, etc., there's

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nothing founded. Um, have we, you know, I mean, if if somebody's asking for cause, I mean, you know, you understand what I'm saying? I mean, likelihood of getting cause is pretty slim, right?

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>> Well, I mean, it's it's a situation and like I said, not knowing any of the factual underpinnings here, um, you know, if if you're just talking about, you know, basic performance issues and and, you know, a lack of satisfaction in a job, that's why you have that

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flexibility of being able to move on to somebody new. Um, but finding cause, it's such a subjective term. you know, I I may see a set of facts and find it to be cause or find it not to be cause. You each of you actually may see it

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differently. And then no matter what we come up collectively, a circuit court judge could see it even a different way. So, because it is a a subjective determination. Obviously, there are certain things somebody's charged with a crime or or things like that. there's there are certain things that are kind

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of black and white, but when it comes to just um not meeting certain performance standards or or not fulfilling obligations, I mean that's kind of why your charter officers have at will contracts, but that at will involves a

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severance provision. So, >> okay. >> Thank you, sir. >> So, thank you, Paul. Um, round one, uh, you had, uh, responded to Council Member Kaine that it it could go somewhere in the ballpark of of $10,000, and I see that your hourly rate listed here is

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250. So that's 16 to 32 hours to hit the 5,000 10 $10,000 threshold. I mean, and that that might be on the high side, but like I said, I'm I'm speaking from a perspective of not knowing what the allegations are, how many witnesses there are, uh how

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available they will be, and you know, how many times >> No, I'm just trying to understand uh the potential time frame, right? And obviously >> that's where the billable hours come in, right? So, thank you. Um >> Vice Mayor Sud's light is back on.

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>> One final question. So in conclusion and you haven't seen the matters these are not in my whatever limited knowledge those matters are not just performance related they are much deeper and wider

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but anyway why are you the right attorney for this specific situation? Why are you what would you say something unique? Why are you right? Well, I mean, I I do come with a lot of experience, both, you know, my 12 years in law enforcement as an investigator. You

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know, I've got that angle. And then being a government attorney and a labor attorney is is an in an interesting mix um that a lot of board-certified government attorneys might do civil trial law or or other types of things.

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With me, it was labor and employment law. And even as an arbitrator, I've dealt with a lot of disputes. And that's always kind of my role talking about what is just cause. That's kind of what I do as an arbitrator. Uh but as I said earlier, honestly, uh you know, the the

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facts are what the facts are. So I think you'll be well served by any of the firms that have submitted. >> Thank you, Mr. Stokes. >> Thank you. Any any further questions for this gentleman? >> No. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> U

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Valerie, who's up next? >> Mr. Cooji. >> Mr. Cooji's coming in via Zoom, I believe. There he is. >> Good evening. Can you hear me? >> We can. Thank you. >> So, could you tell us a little bit about

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yourself and elaborate maybe on the backup material that we have? >> Sure, absolutely. My name is Brian Koji. I'm a labor and employment attorney. I'm with the law firm of Allen, Norton, and Blue. I'm based out of Tampa. I heard

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what Mr. Stoke said there and I I concur 100% with him. I know him and his background and I know the Grey Robinson firm. I don't know Miss Simpson, but all of them are eminently qualified. Allan Norton and Blue. We have offices in

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Tampa, Miami, Orlando, and Tallahassee. There's about 35 lawyers. I've been practicing since 1997 doing solely labor and employment defense. My clientele is 90% public sector, which mean mostly cities and counties. Um, I'm happy to

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answer any questions you have. I'm board certified as well, and labor and employment law, and I handle these types of matters all the time. >> Thank you. Uh, Vice Mayor Sud is got his light on first. >> Sure. Miss, um, thank you, sir. Thank

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you for applying. And you heard you have the benefit of hearing Q&A, so that's the benefit of going second. But given those question, could you give us some color on your experience in a similar situation circumstances and

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um what is your unique uh what are your unique uh skills or experiences that can be helpful for this town council? Thank you. >> Yeah, thank you Vice Mayor. Uh I have over my the course of my career

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um like I said represented mostly public sector entities primarily smaller cities are the bulk of who I represent. As part of that we have all the time it comes up where we have to negotiate separations of employment both at lower level employees and also higher level

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employees including city managers and a lot of department heads. that's come up probably comes up half a dozen times a year where we negotiate and work out separations not necessarily with a city manager but certainly department heads that comes up

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about six times a year for me. So we've I've been through it. I think I'm sensitive and I echo a lot of what Mr. Stokes says. I think a lot of times these things end up through a negotiation. Usually litigation is the last resort

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because of the cost involved and anytime you're dealing with a high-profile, higher ranking official, uh it's going to draw a lot of negative attention, which is usually not in either side's best interest. So from my perspective, one of the things I try and do and I

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bring to the table is trying to really be a problem solver, trying to figure out how to bridge the gap. If it's negotiation, of course, you always have to have in your back pocket. If you can't work something out that's that brings value to to the town and to um

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your your current town manager, then you have to be willing to proceed to litigation, which I do also a fair amount of litigation both in arbitrations and in court. Uh so from my perspective uh you have to you have to

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look at both of those potential paths at the same time but also keep in mind that the end result isn't always just dollars and cents. There's obviously a very public nature. There's tax dollars at stake. Um and

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there's a lot of emotions at stake. And so it, you know, on one hand, I applaud the council because I think bringing in somebody whether it's any of the three of us tonight who has no dog in a fight and doesn't know all of the all the players is is is the way to go because I

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think you can manage both sides uh um a little easier than if you had somebody with a with a relationship with with the parties. There are some drawbacks to that of course but I think my experience in working on these matters is is something that u would be well suited by

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the town. >> A follow-up question. >> Yes. >> Uh Mr. Koji, you you are a very senior uh shareholder lawyer partner in this very reputed uh law firm. Would you handle this case personally or would you

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assign some junior lawyer to this case? the negotiation and trying to work something out. I would take the lead on that. I would be the the primarily the only one involved. If it if it if it got into litigation, then our typical model

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is that I would be the lead and we would have an assigned associate attorney as well to to handle some of that if it got to litigation, which I I I hope it doesn't because again, I'll echo Mr. Stokes and that that usually means it's a much more expensive proposition. But

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for something like this, I would I would take the lead and I would be the only one involved. >> And and last question, how would you ensure a very transparent uh neutral process? We have no personal bias one way or the other. We want this to be

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fair. How would you ensure that? >> Well, anything that happens the at the end if there's a negotiation obviously has to come back to you all for approval. has to be approved by both sides. That would have to happen in the public. I would also follow the same course of action that Mr. Stokes mentioned. And in leading out to that,

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I'd want to meet with and talk to to each of you to figure out what your issues are, what direction you have so that obviously that doesn't necessarily have to be in public. Um, but at the end of the day, whatever is whatever happens

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has to come back into public meetings. So, and I try and balance the interest. I know in in working with public entities and elected officials that you all each have your own views and uh at the end of the day, you have to have majority or if you terminate for cause,

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I guess you have in this case have to have more than a majority. Um, but everybody comes at it from a different angle and and so I try and juggle that um appropriately and it's it's difficult to do as you might imagine. >> Thank you.

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>> Thank you. Uh, anyone else? No questions. No questions. Paul, do you have a question for this gentleman? >> I'm just assuming that your answer is going to be the same to my question that that the other gentleman's was that, you know, if you don't really have cause,

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you really don't have cause. It's hard to prove cause. Correct. >> It is difficult to prove cause. Uh, and I think more to the point, I don't think this is a difference from what Mr. Stoke mentioned, but the way that the law is

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structured in Florida where most of these agreements have the 20we severance um really pushes the parties to try and negotiate rather than because cause it it it it you have to not only have the cause, you have to investigate and be

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comfortable that presenting to you all that you would vote in favor of cause. But that's going to definitely trigger in my in my experience a lawsuit challenging that and taking that a breach of contract to court. So you the

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the if you go to a lawsuit on a a breach of contract in a case like this, you're going if you go all the way to a jury trial, you're going to spend more than $100,000. You that's just the way it is on defense fees, win or lose. And if you lose,

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obviously you may owe the other side. So the Florida legislature when they enacted the 20we cap on these separation payments uh it it really pushed most of these things down that path. Um and it's difficult. So I I'd answer your question

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saying yes it's difficult to establish cause you have a higher threshold if you need four votes but you also have to have a threshold not only voting for it but then being able to have it upheld if it gets challenged in courts which is usually the case. >> Thank you. Appreciate that.

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Thank you. Uh and I will go last and uh one uh the same question of the gentleman before uh do you anticipate you know 10 hours 20 hours at your rate that you've provided just

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in a negotiation at this kind. >> Yeah. With the same caveat that obviously we haven't I I don't know all the facts. Haven't reviewed anything here. So it varies. It also will vary depending on um uh the aggressiveness on the other side and approaching the other

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side. But typically, if you're looking at negotiating and trying to reach a mutually beneficial deal that both sides can live with, it's I would I would agree it's about a $5,000 uh expenditure there. Uh maybe a little bit more. But if if you're able to get

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at the end of the day an agreement, you're probably looking between5 and $10,000. My hourly rate is $300 an hour and uh so 40, you know, that's $12,000 one week. It doesn't usually take a lot of back and forth to know if you're

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going down that path. If you end up in the other going down the other path of having to investigate it, move forward with with a dismissal for cause, then it's it's going to be much more expensive. And that's where it could easily be double, triple that depending

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on the nature of the investigation. And like I said, if it ends up going from there into court for litigation, I think you're looking at more than six figures. >> Okay. Thank you. Super helpful. Any other questions for this folks? Oh,

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thank you, sir, for your time. >> One, Miss Simpson is next. Um, there is an update to her propo proposed hourly rate. Uh, it has gone down to 300 per hour. Thank you for that update.

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Miss Simpson, I believe you're up. If we can get you up on our screen. There you are. >> Yes. Do I have permission to proceed? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay, perfect. Um, good evening, mayor and council. My name is Johnny Cassimson and I am a rising fifth year associate

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at Grey Robinson. As a rising fifth year, I have a refreshing approach when handling disputes while representing both employers and employees in a wide range of labor and employment disputes, which gives me a pretty balanced perspective on the issues before the town today. Additionally, here at Great

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Robinson, I handle a lot of complex civil um disputes that range in a variety of um plaintiffs and defendants. Um, also here at our Fort Lauderdale office, I have the benefit of being aided by renowned attorneys such as my

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managing shareholder Tom Lefredo and fellow shareholder Gary Resnik. Both of who bring over 30 years of experience in both municipal law as well as labor and employment disputes. Um, with their insight and guidance. um they have been very instrumental in shaping my approach

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to these matter matters and fostering a pretty thoughtful practical discussions and you know on complex employment disputes. Um I thank the town for considering us and representing them in this matter and I welcome any questions that any of the members may have.

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>> Thank you. >> Vice Mayor Sud is up. >> Miss Simpson, thank you so much. Uh your resume is very impressive. Could you tell us what would you do differently if anything as compared to the other two law firms who presented?

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>> What I would do differently here is I've taken a look at the contract already and I've given it some thought and even have spoken to um two of the shareholders that I previously mentioned. But one of the things that I think is critical here is not only for us to determine what it

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is the town is seeking specifically to get out of this situation but also to speak to the previous town manager to determine exactly what is she expecting out of this situation. I think a lot of times when handling disputes

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especially when a contract controls once we enter into negotiations is it is very important to know the duties and responsibilities under the contract as well as what which contracting party is tasked to you know complete under the contract but often times I think that

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the parties place too much emphasis on that it's like you have to consider that of course but alternatively when negotiating you have to take into account what both parties are seeking. While the town's interest would obviously be my priority, we would also

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be expected to hear, you know, the the the town manager, the previous acting town manager out to determine exactly what is it that she's seeking. Is she seeking the full 20 weeks or is there some wiggle room there? So I think in negotiations when we're actually

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engaging it's important to listen to both sides because I think there's sometimes we can call out exactly what is being sought here as opposed to just being too much of a stickler on what you know both parties want because often times we don't really get to a form of a

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settlement then >> okay something else >> u last question why why individually in your own experience you said you have senior partners uh other two law firms have very senior lawyers directly

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handling. So what would you say to that? >> I'm sorry. Could you rephrase your question? >> I'm saying the other two law firms who presented have their senior partners or the partners themselves coming directly working with us. In your case, you are associate. What would you say to that?

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One of the beauties about being an associate working in a shareholder dominated firm is that I get to take the experience that I've learned from the shareholders as well as you know sharing a lot of these cases firsthand and bring my fresh approach to it. While I'm only

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a fifth year, a rising fifth year here at Grey Robinson, I've been trained by some of the best and I am not, you know, shackled to any previous, you know, things that may have transpired in other cases. I'm always welcoming fresh and

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new approaches to a situation, which has, in my experience, has helped us resolve many more cases as opposed to sticking to a black and white approach with many of these cases. >> Thank you. Thank you. No other questions

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from you. Any other questions? >> Uh, can I just reiterate Oh, sorry, Anita. I didn't see you. >> No, go go go right ahead. >> Can I just reiterate my question to the last two to the two gentlemen? >> Yes. >> About your the uh Did you hear it, ma'am, or do you need me to

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>> Could you repeat it for me, please? It's just what are your thoughts about uh when you know cause versus no cause and being able to prove cause and and you know it's my understanding that you have to have pretty concrete

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u evidence to make cause stick and it can be a very costly and lengthy battle. So I what are your thoughts on that? >> So my thoughts align and echo the previous two gentleman's um thoughts. Cause is a pretty high burden to satisfy. However, it's not impossible.

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So, given, you know, if the town decides to proceed with doing an investigation to really call out whether there's clause or not, I think that it is a plausible idea and I think it would be a plausible strategy. However, I think it would be I think it would be more

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important to create really strict deadlines so that way you know the investigation doesn't run until roughly August or September where you know the term under the contract would had already expired. So, while it is a high burden, I don't think it's impossible,

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but I do think that if that's something that the town would like to proceed with doing, it should do so in a not only costefficient manner, but also being mindful of, you know, time is of the essence. >> Thank you. >> No problem.

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>> Thank you, Mr. Stevens. Anything else? Uh, so, uh, thank you for for answering those questions. And I I would also ask the same question again. Do do you anticipate you know any amount of uh minimum or maximum time that that it

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would take to at least begin this initial negotiation. >> I would also echo the two previous gentlemen as well um thinking that we can you know be able to get at least a negotiations portion um resolved within

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you know the $5 to $10,000 range. However, I think that given that I've reviewed some of the documents already, namely the employment contract, that already would be something that we wouldn't bill for considering that we took it in and reviewed it as a, you

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know, as a good faith effort in trying to retain this matter. So, um, so yeah, but I I would definitely echo them in the5 to $10,000 range. >> Okay, we have another question. I >> have a follow-up question. as you we

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hire you and the matter becomes serious, the investigation finds something serious or it goes to litigation for some reason, how would you support with your you're you're very smart and you have excellent resume, but how does other senior members get involved? How

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would you do you bill for those extra your your top lawyers? How how do you how do you bill for that? >> No. So, typically what happens with those cases, and I I have a couple of them that I've brought into the firm myself as well. Typically, I would have

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strategy discussions with my more senior shareholders. And those aren't discussions that we would typically bill for. That's just more so me coming to them with maybe approach A, B, and C and calling out the pros and cons of each approach and discussing it with them and

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then coming back to the client to discuss, you know, hey, here are the three approaches. here's the pros, here's the cons, and just allowing the client to understand that not only is this the approach that I've generated, but I've also ran this by, you know, two or three of our other, you know, more

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senior shareholders that have been practicing, you know, this 10 times as long as I have. But just to let them know that this is a a solid approach and to understand that this is not just the thoughts of one attorney but multiple that are coming together as you know on

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behalf of Gray Robinson and providing the most sound approach for the issue presented. >> I'm talking specifically around litigation if it goes to that level if would you be able to bring those

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experienced lawyers to your team? Is that how is that what I'm understanding? You have a very good reputation. You have other senior lawyers in the background who would come and work as a team. >> Yes. And we have um a variety of attorneys that would be available that

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are more senior. We have senior associates. We have shareholders. And it would just be up to the client as to who we would proceed with. But yes, we do have that capability. >> Thank you. >> Question. I'd actually like to make a

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motion. >> Okay. >> Um I'm not sure what qu I mean since every one of these attorneys said that they'll want to interview whoever we choose would want to interview us separately and hear our different takes

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on what's going on here. The motion I I would like to take is I'd like to make the motion. I'm interested in moving this forward more quickly than to have to go and have meetings and have whatever and make a decision later. So, I'd like to make a motion to choose Mr. Stokes. And my reason being that his

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hourly rate rate is $50 less an hour and he also does not charge for the incidentals that the other two firms charge for. So, that's the motion I would like to make. >> Second that motion. >> Okay. In the interest of saving taxpayer dollars. All right. We have a motion to

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uh to hire Mr. Stokes and a sec uh by council member Kaine and seconded by council member Coleman. Uh any comments, >> discussion? >> Yeah, >> vice mayor. >> I'm not sure yet. I'm not sure yet.

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Cost. It's we want outcomes. We want fast. We want speed. We want all the power we got. If if if we find wrongdoings, if we find fraud, if we find some investigation, I am and this is just me. We have to make sure

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that if the tax dollars were used or abused, we will take the action and then example has to be made of anybody who works here. If anybody does that in the future, this will be considered as a case study or an example. So I'm not

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sure yet. money is not uh I am more interested in who will bring the best outcomes, the speed, the momentum, the quality and the force of all expertise if and as needed. So with that being said, I would say that let's take public

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comments. Let's hear from very smart residents here. Let's hear their thoughts and then we deliberate and then we do it. That's my comment. Thank you, >> Madam Mayor. I have a comment. Okay, hold on. Any comments on that?

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>> All right, Paul, do you have any comment on that? >> Yeah, I I think all three firms sounded very confident, very very much willing to do whatever the town council wishes them to do. Um, you know, if we wish to

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spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on litigating something, I am quite sure either three of the firms will take our money. I I think at this point, as you said earlier, uh Madame Mayor, uh we need to make this as expeditious and as painless for everybody as possible. And

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I would think that my my fellow council members who are always every one of us always talking about fiscal responsibility would be looking for that same option. So, I I don't think that it's necessary to drag this out one bit. I think I think we kind of got the information we need and we can have

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those individual um uh interviews with them as as as they need it. So I I I think I think the idea >> they all >> I was going to say I might add they all spoke very highly of each other. So it's not like anybody you know we seem to be

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on an equal >> correct. I mean I it's everybody seems to be equal. Nobody knows anybody. I've never met any of these people. I'll go on record as well. So I think at this point we just need to make a decision and and we need to move forward with this. I think any of them are going to

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be responsible. they are duly bound by the bar and by state law to be ethical and responsible in all things that they do. So I think you know at this point that's where we're at. Thank you. >> Thank you. Public comment. >> Yes, madame mayor. We have Todd

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McClendon. Todd McClendon sat here about two weeks ago and begged you not to ask act hastily and that's what you did. You came in within an hour and a half of being elected and sworn in to terminating this contract without seeking legal advice without talking to

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anybody who's in the field as to what the repercussions are. You just heard from this first attorney out of the gate. Probably better off to just pay the contract out. That's where we're at. We're probably got about 25 weeks left in the contract. By the time you start engaging with one of these firms, you're

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going to eat up those four or five weeks. You're going to be paying the rest of the 20 weeks. When it comes to negotiating, how willing is everybody willing to negotiate? That's what it comes down to. It's how manager could say, "I want my contract paid out." If you guys agree to

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that, it's an hour labor. He's done. You want to make a you want to make a principle out of it and keep going. You want to try to find cause? It's going to get drugged out in court past the September 30th. You're going to pay her until that time. She's on paid vacation. What is What is her reason to

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negotiate at this point? You guys put her in a gravy position. There's no reason negotiate. She's on vacation getting paid her full salary. This is what happens when you act hastily. This is what happens when you get a dog pack mentality and you don't

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think about the actions or the consequences of your actions. Like I said, negotiation could be done in five minutes. Um, if you have an axe to grind, which it sounds like one of you do, we're going to find cause. They don't even know what

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they're looking for. They don't know if it's because they don't like the size of her shoe or what. They have no idea. I haven't heard from one of these council members as to here's where the cause potentially might be. I haven't heard any misappropriated funds. I haven't heard about a mortgage payment that got

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paid. Nothing. We just don't like her. That's good enough cause, right? A a judge is going to agree that that's good enough cause to get rid of this contract. If you have to do an investigation, it's a witch hunt. That's what they're looking for. That's what they're looking for.

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So, if you have an axe to grind and you want to prove a point, Mr. Sud, like you said, for the next c for the next town manager that we don't play games that we're going to come after you, try that game. See how that works out. Thank you. >> Thank you.

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>> Not no. >> Any other comments? >> Yes. Um, Maryanne Miles, you cannot stop yourself, can you? >> No. Good evening, council. Um, you guys talk about transparency and and

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meetings and and the presentations of the three attorneys were great. That's not something that should have been done here. You guys have questions. It's a contract between you guys and an

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attorney firm. When you ask your questions, they could have come and done a presentation and wrapped up your questions and you still have transparency. Are you going to do this with a a contract with

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the garbage, with the fire department, with anybody else that you have a contract with? You guys are five board members. This is why when I sat on council and other people sat on council, we had

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meetings, we read the material, if we had any questions of the presenter, we would ask them the night of that meeting, we'd bring them in, get our questions answered, how high is the building,

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whatever, whatever it was, because those will those kind of questions, building questions will come up also. And I sat through, excuse me, I sat through watching a five and a half hour meeting on the 7th that I think could have been

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cut down had you guys met because this is only the beginning for you guys. You got another one year and three years to go. So it's not when you go back there, it's a closed door session. That's not what this is. It's a factf finding of

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the agencies that you want to hire or potentially hire. Then you present that to the public without going through everything that they just went through, listening to one another and and watching what's going

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on. So I implore the next time you guys have contract negotiations, no matter what it is, it's not a backroom deal. It's you guys talking to staff and talking to the contract holders to

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glean information enough to make an educated decision and you have the people come that you can ask more questions rather than doing it now putting them on the spot because I think you're ready to make a decision on who to hire. And I guess my problem with

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this is if you do go on, you're spending money to spend money. And we've done this now. How many how many uh contracts have we had that we've paid out? And people that are listening and you're going to hire another town

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managing firm and you think this contract and other ones aren't going to be tighter? Woo. Thank you. Any other comments?

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>> Anybody that knows me knows I'm a little biased. I brought up mediation um probably about 25 minutes ago. Um I know how mediations work. I've been watching them for I don't know many many years now.

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I'm not convinced that this is a route we need to go with this. I'm just not there yet. And I'm certainly not prepared to make a vote on one of these firms tonight. We're talking about a lot of money. And there was a few comments that were made at the podium that I don't disagree

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with. Not all, but some. There's a way to get through this. And I do agree with Council Member Kaine, and we want to expedite this. We don't want to drag this out. So, thank you for those comments. I just I urge my colleagues up here,

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just think about mediation, think about the cost, think about the time, there's a way to get where we're going, and I I'm just not convinced. And no disrespect to the to the firms that presented tonight. Thank y'all so much. I'm just not convinced this is a way to

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go. Thank you. >> Thank you. Would you like to comment? You know what's very interesting to me is the people, some of the former people who gave this town manager this very special thing even though they knew that

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the vote was coming and our town resident did vote for 32 but they still gave little nice nugget very much and now it's all about you know okay we we we are here to blame

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all right that's fine so let's talk about where we are. I think we need some time. I do agree with uh Miss Miles that we cannot we we have to have speed but I think I would appreciate a a u a private

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meeting with the three law firms but make a decision very quickly but we need to ask some questions in private and then make a very quick decision. I'm not yet sold on the very first level that

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this canes proposed as yet. That's my comment. >> Okay. As far as going back and speaking to each one of these uh proposed councils in this

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particular circumstance due to the restrictions on the contract uh these things were not able to be done ahead of time. Um I like Vice Mayor Sud have some questions I specifically would like to ask of each of these that due to the

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nature of a negotiation it would not be prudent to discuss that publicly. Uh once the decision is made to hire any one of these firms to move the negotiation forward. Uh then they will have the time with each of the council members to discuss further on the

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positions of each of the council members. speaking to mediation directly. That is also a progress a process I had considered. But given the fact that the town uh has recused the current sitting town attorney, uh we would probably have

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to hire an attorney to sit with the person appointed to be the point person for the negotiations for a mediation process. So that became quite cumbersome and that is not the direction that I I chose to try to go with um after that

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multiple discussions on how that might play out. So uh I think we heard from a couple of the attorneys tonight on mediation. Certainly Mr. Stokes spoke about the the downfalls, the pitfalls of mediation when they fail. So I I think

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that tonight we can certainly come to a decision on who can negotiate an accelerated leave. Uh there is no talk of termination at this point. The count the town manager had agreed to an accelerated leave for her retirement that she submitted at the last meeting.

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Uh the administrative leave is still uh a paid administrative leave based on a potential investigation into operation and performance matters. So, at this point, I I would like to obviously we have a motion on the floor

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um that we have to vote on, but I lean toward breaking and five minute intervals. I have a few questions that could quickly be answered by any one of these uh attorneys and uh come back and make a decision tonight. So, that's

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where I stand on that. So, is your light on for a reason? >> Yeah, I I agree with I agree with your proposal. >> Okay. Thank you. Any other comments on that? >> I got my hand up. >> Oh, hi. >> Sorry. I don't I don't know where the hand button is and I don't know that you could see it from where you're sitting.

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So, um I know from experience. Um so, yeah, I I I agree with what you're saying. You might have to get somebody, you know, we'd have to hire somebody to sit with a mediator anyway. So, then we're paying we're double dipping, right? So if we can, you know, if we can

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settle on a attorney firm tonight, you know, that would I think that's where we need to be. So if I I guess if we need a breakout for five minutes for each person, that's 20 minutes a person. I mean or and then excuse me, 25 minutes a person. So, I

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mean, I we need to set up meetings that we can have, you know, Zoom meetings or whatever with these folks and, you know, vote on. I know you don't want to wait two weeks and but again, she's on admin leave, so you know, to be prudent about it and then we everybody can ask her

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questions, I guess. >> Well, we could also set up a special meeting to come back quickly, >> right? But next Tuesday or something like that and take the vote. We could do it Thursday as far as I'm concerned. So, you know, we could do it pretty quickly

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if we needed to. Obviously, there's a public notice. Um, special meetings have, I believe, 72 hours. So, >> continue the item to uh time certain. >> We could continue the item to time

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certain. Thank you, Mr. Curts. So, I I guess that's on the table to discuss, but we still have your motion. Um, >> I'm willing to table the motion. I mean, bring it back, but table the motion for now. I mean, if if you feel that there's important questions you need to and Mr.

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Sue feels there's important questions, they need to ask them individually privately and you as well, Mr. Stevens, to gain some level of comfort with the process. Um, you know, but I but I do think that in the interest of getting through the other business that we have tonight, it would be best to table this

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item till time certain. And I've I can check my calendar for Thursday night as I'm sure everybody else can now. Uh and then that and then we can arrange through staff throughout the day tomorrow a way to for each of us to get five or 10 minutes with them.

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>> I would inquire of our our folks here this evening if that is something that is conducive for them as well >> this Thursday. >> Does that work for all of you? Mr. Stokes. >> Hold on. Mr. Stokes, Mr. Koji and and Miss Simpson um are open to that concept

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of of speaking with council individually and um so that council can feel comfortable uh coming to a decision um potentially at a Thursday night followup on this item. >> Well, I'm not immuneable to Thursday night. That's what I was trying that's what I was trying to ask because that's

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what you were saying this Thursday. Thought we were talking about Tuesday of next week, but I mean >> Okay. Excuse me. And looking at my calendar, I have to go till Tuesday of next week as well. I'm I'm tied up Thursday and Friday night.

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>> Okay. >> Uh Mr. Cooji, I see you're you're you've come back into view. Is that something that's conducive for you? >> Um are we are you talking now Thursday or next Tuesday? >> It's looking like the majority is going

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to have to push to next Tuesday. Next, next Tuesday in the uh yes, I'm available next Tuesday. I I would have to do it by via Zoom again. >> Well, I think the the question on here would be would you be available to speak with the individual council members uh

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so that the council could come back uh that following week to come to a decision? >> Oh, yeah. I can make myself available. I have a hearing on Thursday and Friday during a day, but anytime I'll make myself available other other times.

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All right, Miss Simpson. Thank you, Mr. Cooji. My apologies. I'm I'm having some technical difficulties here. The last the last couple of minutes kind of blurred out for me. Could you repeat that for me? >> So, the the concern of council is we

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would like to take some time. We'd like to continue with the business of the agenda this evening. So, we're just asking each of the councils this evening, would they be available to speak with council members briefly regarding their individual questions so that we could bring this back um on another evening for council to make a

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decision? >> Yes, that's fine by me. >> Okay. And Mr. Stokes, he he's nodding at the back of the room. Thank you, Miss Simpson. So, it sounds like all the councils this evening would be open to that idea. So, uh, we just need to

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decide what evening we would be available. >> Did you say Tuesday the 28th? Is that what we're looking at? >> I'm I'm fine with any evening. >> Okay. Tuesday the 20. >> Tuesday the 28th. And you want to do that at 5:00, 6 o'clock, Madam Mayor.

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>> Let's let me look at the calendar here. That's February 20. I'm sorry, April 28th. Don't know why February popped into my mind. >> Uh, I'm I'm good. Uh, five is a little tricky for me just because of my my home obligations.

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>> 6 o' >> um 5:30 or 6. >> Six seems to be Paul. Do you have issue >> at this point? No. >> At this point, no. So, >> I normally, you know, like six, but you know, somewhere between five and six

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because this shouldn't be a long meeting. It really shouldn't, unless we're going to pontificate again. >> The uh an item brought forward. So 6:00 p.m. April 28th, uh would uh council like to coordinate with the acting town

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manager to speak with each of these individuals? >> I think yeah, >> I would direct >> I would direct the council members to to uh work with the acting town manager to reach out to each one of these uh firms this evening um to to get that

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expedited. So thank you for your time. Thank you, Mr. Stokes for coming this evening and um we look forward to coming to a decision soon 28th 6 p.m.

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All right, that brings us to agenda item eight. I believe um Council Member Kaine, you had some some questions on that item. >> I do. the title. >> Um, so I just wanted to get some things

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on the record. Um, so what was your salary uh previously? >> That was complete. >> Salary. >> What was your salary? Um, madame town manager, what was your salary prior to this? >> Do you want me to answer that

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>> action? Um, I think her annual salary is $137,812. >> Okay. So, 137. >> Okay. >> That's her current rate of pay. >> That's our current rate. Okay. We're talking about adding 20,000 to that. I just want to know what we're talking

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about doing here >> potentially. >> I'm just want to know what we're talking about. That's all. Okay. All righty. Um, and then I do have a question about

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item number five in your Jeff. I'm assuming you prepared this because your name's on it. >> Yes. >> I have a question about item number five and you know I want to predicate this by saying that you know I love Val and I love Tatiana both. Um, but I have a concern because uh, state law is very

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specific about this kind of a situation and are we allowed to just wave state statute um, because of our certain circumstance or is there some mechanism in there that we're allowed to wave it just because she's an interim? I mean,

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I' I'd like to know h how that works. Um what you're being asked to to wave is our um human resources manual. Um

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the state statute. I'm not sure what you're referring to as far as a prohibition against um employing family manners. >> You're not. Huh. Okay. Well, I was pretty sure there was state statute regarding nepotism, but

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>> can you talk into your microphone? >> Sorry. I was sure there pretty sure there was state statute regarding nepotism, but if there is not, then I stand corrected. But um that's fine. >> I'll investigate that a little further.

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>> Any other questions? >> Nope. Council member Cidia, I'm sorry, Vice Mayor S. Um, Mr. Lurtz or maybe somebody um maybe town manager, acting town manager can answer. What was the total compensation cash and retirements

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and other cash sort of equalent given to the prior town manager? What was her salary plus other cash? >> What's the relevancy on that? I'm just comparing. I'm just ask for that to be Excuse me for interrupting, but I actually asked for that to be prepared because in us thinking about an exit

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strategy, I wanted us to have like the different, you know, I'm the numbers girl, right? I wanted us to have some different numbers, right? >> Um, so you actually have that right here in front of you on the sheet that that I asked the acting cow manager to prepare. What I'm trying to basically compare is

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that even with this potential increase, uh, Miss Oaks is handling that responsibility plus she's still transitioning supporting her prior job and uh, even with this potential

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increase which is spread over 12 months and >> six months I believe. >> Yeah, six months. and she can be let go any time as soon as we fire a new as soon as we hire a new she she is not putting any conditions other than that she falls back so I mean I'm just trying

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to give a have an understanding what was her total cash salary given to the prior town manager do you know the number >> well I think what you're asking for is

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uh salary which I believe was 160,000 63 163. >> Okay. 163,000. Um and then um there was a retirement contribution um $35,000

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I think that the town made and um there was $15,000 paid towards health insurance benefits. Now the number that I gave you with respect to um Valerie does not include um

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her benefits. Uh we as employees get uh health insurance benefits. We also get retirement benefits that are paid by the town. Mhm. So if even if I take that $15,000 away

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that that salary for the town manager was $213,000 right and plus 30 you said how much for the retirement was 35,000 >> I think it was 160 I think your 213,000 is based on the >> 230,000

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>> 16 I think your 213 comes from 163 + 35 + 15 >> correct That was uh that was that's 213 >> without health insurance. She was paid about 200,000 a year without 15,000 plus

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other many benefits. So I just wanted my colleagues to keep that number in mind. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Can I ask what the relevance was to this matter at hand? >> Yes, Paul. That was already asked. It was already asked and he just provided why.

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>> Oh, >> thank you. >> Oh, I didn't get that. it's not relevant because with one you're including the benefits and everything is and saying it's the total salary and the other one you're not. They're costing us about the same. And in addition, we probably have

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to now hire somebody else to do legal to aid Mr. Curts with legal because Kentha can't do town clerk and legal. I mean, he's already not getting his stuff done. So, how's he going to get his stuff done without the assistant full-time

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assistant that he had? So, I mean, if we're looking to compare money, it's probably not a good thing to look to compare. Either way, >> we're looking at we're looking at we're looking at an out of class pay for up to right now up to September, and we can look at it again if we haven't figured

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something out by September. That's what we're talking about here, you know, that that's strictly what we're talking about. And there's separation. There's, you know, payouts of of PTO and stuff, which you already have. So I I don't understand what we're doing. That's I'm

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just trying to understand. >> Thank you. >> And you know what we are doing? We are implementing the will of 70% of people who voted for me. You know what they said? They have zero confidence in your leadership. Madame Kane and and previous

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town manager. We are resetting the direction. Have you visited the north road? >> Please with my leadership. Would you please stop? Can I have an opportunity to >> listen? Listen. We're not resetting direction right now. Right now, we are

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trying to stay the course. We're Hold on. We're trying to stay the course and keep things moving. That's what we're doing. >> Point of order, please. I I think that that is not necessary to to elaborate on. Thank you. I'm saying is we have a

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responsibility for having a proper leadership in the town in which we >> vice may point of order madame mayor >> that does not need to be elaborated. >> No, what I'm saying is the temporary overlap ensures

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>> vice mayor. Yes, >> that that is not necessary. Okay, >> that please unless you're going to get to a point. >> Let me my point is the following. I think Miss Oaks very much u is is doing a fantastic job according to me uh with with in the limited time she has been

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there and I would like to propose a motion to approve >> resolution 202633. >> Yes. >> Yes. I would like a motion to approve >> the resolution 202633. >> All right. We have a motion to approve

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202633. >> Okay. That was my motion. Okay. I'll second. >> We have a >> Je many Christmas >> Paul. It's very difficult I know to be on Zoom but it >> I know but I >> talking over.

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>> Yeah. My motion was to move this to consent. So what I mean whichever whichever that's fine as long as long we can move on. All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. So we have a motion to approve and a second by council member Kaine. Any public comment? >> No madam. >> All right. I'll take a vote. All those

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in favor? I >> opposed. Hearing none. Motion passes 5-0. >> And we have a short break before the next item because I'm going to have to talk for a while. >> Okay. >> All right. We'll take a a 10-minute

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pause. We're resuming at 8. I'm not receiving anything, y'all. Sorry. 8:04 p.m. We begin with agenda item nine and I will pass this off to town attorney Kurtz.

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Yes, this is a discussion about the sheriff's contract and the possibility of uh resuming um services under >> uh not to interrupt you. Sorry, I did have a a concerned citizen say, can we

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talk closer to the microphone because we are not being picked up. >> I apologize for that. I'll try to get this um in front of my face. the we met on April 13th uh which was

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this week ago Monday with uh Colonel Coleman um and Brian Shut who's their legal counsel um the mayor was the lead on the negotiations um the acting town manager and I were

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also uh present. What we have today for you is a synopsis of where we believe we can re-engage with them. We think that if we make this offer to

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to them um that they will accept it and they will resume services as quickly as possible. We did not get the impression that there was much room on their part um to

418
02:09:01.119 --> 02:09:19.199
deviate from uh this. Um the basics of it are um that we would resend uh the previous resolution that terminated the the contract. Um we would make payment

419
02:09:19.199 --> 02:09:34.560
for December through December 17th. um which amounts to about $29,000. Um they would wave payment for the remainder of

420
02:09:34.560 --> 02:09:54.000
uh December until um the contract services are resumed. Um which could be in a matter of days um from the time uh the council gave uh that direction. Um

421
02:09:54.000 --> 02:10:09.840
if we rescended um the termination um it would also um put us in a position where we would pay for the rest of this year and we

422
02:10:09.840 --> 02:10:26.800
would contract with them under the terms that had already been negotiated for the next fiscal year. So, the contract would then expire in October, October 1st of 2027. Um,

423
02:10:26.800 --> 02:10:44.800
I've outlined uh the credits that would be involved and the possible funding source. At this point in time, uh they would if the contract was resumed, um they would um

424
02:10:44.800 --> 02:11:02.480
continue the review of our school zone uh camera enforcement. Um and they would continue to evaluate whether or not additional um compensation would be needed for

425
02:11:02.480 --> 02:11:18.480
those services. But if we resumed um it would there we would not have to pay the overtime fee at this point in time that they are charging some other municipalities. And the way it works is um

426
02:11:18.480 --> 02:11:34.320
if the municip if the officers can do their work um during their normal day as a part of their normal operations or the uh camera review um then there is no charge. But other municipalities are

427
02:11:34.320 --> 02:11:50.480
being charged when the officers incur overtime. At this point in time, because we only had one school, um they're going to try to keep it within uh the existing contract.

428
02:11:50.480 --> 02:12:06.480
Um and that is that's basically where we are at if the council wants to uh resume um the law enforcement ser provision of

429
02:12:06.480 --> 02:12:31.119
law enforcement services by um PBS. I I think there was one additional um question about the red speed while the the uh termination was in effect going back and being able to to review this. Are you able to determine if there's

430
02:12:31.119 --> 02:12:47.760
>> Yes, the with with red speeds they um continue to get the the data um but they will not go back more than 30 days. Um so they have

431
02:12:47.760 --> 02:13:02.719
the data for violations that are occurring right now. Um and they've actually got the data that goes back to the January February time frame. Um but they will not as a as

432
02:13:02.719 --> 02:13:19.719
a matter of policy um go back more than 30 days because they think those collections become very problematic at that point. >> Okay. So reclamation on on any of those potential citations would only go back 30 days >> from whenever we resumed.

433
02:13:19.760 --> 02:13:36.159
>> So that was my only question. Uh, so we have um agenda item and that's it. Jeeoff, any further information? >> I'll be happy to respond to questions. And there is a typographical error that wasn't picked up by spellch check in 26

434
02:13:36.159 --> 02:13:51.679
34. Um, and it is resumption of payments, not resumption for payments. Somehow that got the that missed the spell check there. Could you uh where is it in the document?

435
02:13:51.679 --> 02:14:08.560
>> It is um in the title um on the fourth or fifth line uh after resumption for it. If you want to consider the the resolution, I'll be happy to read it read the title into the record. >> Uh you may yes read the title, please.

436
02:14:08.560 --> 02:14:26.480
Uh resolution number 2026-34, a resolution of the town council of the town of Lockachi Groves, Florida, concerning the law enforcement service agreement between the town and Rick L. Bradshaw, Sheriff of Palm Beach County, rescending resolution number 26 202615

437
02:14:26.480 --> 02:14:42.159
directing the resumption of payments under the agreement authorizing the acting town manager to execute necessary documents in forms acceptable to the town attorney to implement the attend of this resolution. and authorizing the acting town manager and acting town attorney to take such actions as are

438
02:14:42.159 --> 02:14:57.360
necessary to implement this resolution providing for conflicts provability and an effective date. >> Thank you. Uh do I have a motion on this item before discussion? >> Yes. Uh madame mayor, I would like to uh

439
02:14:57.360 --> 02:15:13.040
move the motion resolution 202634 forward. I have a second. >> Yes. You want to >> I would like to >> approve resolution 20 2634.

440
02:15:13.040 --> 02:15:28.320
>> I have a motion to approve uh resolution 202634. Is there a second? >> Second. >> I have a motion by Vice Mayor Sud uh and a second by Council Member Stevens. Um

441
02:15:28.320 --> 02:15:45.360
opening the floor for questions. Council member Kane. >> Sure. >> You're on first. Um, again, I'm all about numbers. So, um, I want to look at some numbers moving forward. Um, so the red speed, uh,

442
02:15:45.360 --> 02:16:01.599
>> can you speak a little closer to your microphone? >> Not really because it's over in the >> I know. I know. I was sitting in that corner. >> Um, so the red speed is anticipated to decline. So looking to that as a source of revenue to fund this is probably not

443
02:16:01.599 --> 02:16:18.079
very prudent of us. Um it was running about $70,000 right a month. Was that roughly about what it was? Like 70 and 70. It was about a 130 for a two-month period. But it's it it's you know projected to decline. So, I think we need to be very

444
02:16:18.079 --> 02:16:35.120
cautious in looking at that as as a source of revenue to fund this because just by natural umities of people to actually start paying attention once they get a couple hundred tickets um we're going to lose revenue on that. Um but I also want to just make

445
02:16:35.120 --> 02:16:50.559
everybody aware that there's a case right now in Broward County where um they are uh litigating whether they're going to have to pay back all the money for these types of fines. So we need to keep in the back of our minds that um it

446
02:16:50.559 --> 02:17:06.960
could come to be that if that is litigated in a way that is not favorable to us that we have to go not just pay back any future earnings from Redspeed but also pay back the earnings retroactively. And I'm fairly certain sitting here that

447
02:17:06.960 --> 02:17:22.960
of the $100 that we get per ticket, we get about $60 of it. And the other goes to either Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office or to Red Speed themselves. Um, and I'm fairly certain, but Jeff can correct me if I'm wrong, that we would be on the lamb for the whole $100 and

448
02:17:22.960 --> 02:17:40.719
those other agencies would get be get not be giving it back. So, I just want everybody to be aware of that and keep it in the back of their mind that it could be an an incredible liability for us. Um if I might just >> Sure. Go ahead. at this time. Um I'm aware of a case

449
02:17:40.719 --> 02:17:58.639
down in um Broward County where a county court judge determined that the mechanism um >> microphone >> or the mechanism for the collection of the the it was a um it was actually the

450
02:17:58.639 --> 02:18:14.559
red light camera, but the mechanism is the the same for the school zone. um was unconstitutional basically because there was a presumption of guilt rather than innocence. Um and so they threw out u the ticket.

451
02:18:14.559 --> 02:18:30.639
Um that is probably going to be appealed. Um I'm not sure of the exact status of uh the appeal. It does not directly impact Palm Beach County um because it was a county court decision, but you can expect that uh similar

452
02:18:30.639 --> 02:18:45.920
arguments will be made and there's always the possibility with these kind of cases that um you will end up going in front of the district court of appeal um and possibly ultimately uh in front of the Supreme Court to determine

453
02:18:45.920 --> 02:19:04.000
whether or not um that logic as expressed by the county court judge um uh will be upheld. The once if there was a determination um that those funds were collected

454
02:19:04.000 --> 02:19:19.840
illegally, there is the possibility that um you would see a class action um for a return of the fees. But at this point in time, as far as I know, um that collection effort has not underway. you

455
02:19:19.840 --> 02:19:36.479
may be better informed about that, but I'm not aware of of that. But that is a distinct possibility and there is the possibility generally in those kind of cases that you can go back uh three years. >> Right. Again, I'm just trying to Thank you, Jeff, for the clarification. I'm just trying to put things out there for

456
02:19:36.479 --> 02:19:51.920
us to consider with all of this. Okay. The other thing that I want to put out there for us to consider is that there is, as everyone is aware, there is a a large move for uh property tax reform in Tallahassee. And every single one of I

457
02:19:51.920 --> 02:20:06.880
think they've got it narrowed down to eight or nine bills, but every single one of them has protections for law enforcement in that they uh whatever level you're paying at the time. So, if this goes to the voters in November and

458
02:20:06.880 --> 02:20:23.280
the voters in November vote for this property tax reform that we any of the eight or nine versions that they do, it will force municipalities to keep the same level keep paying the same level as they're paying at that time. Okay? At

459
02:20:23.280 --> 02:20:39.200
and that is at the same time as losing that potential income. So, what does that look like for me? Again, these are very rough numbers. Um, so estimating that our taxes that would be leaving if there was if any one of

460
02:20:39.200 --> 02:20:55.600
these reforms went through is about 40 to 50%. You're talking about $800 to a million dollar reduction in our budget in our income. So um, right now that money that we get covers about 50% of what we have in the general fund that we use for these to fund these kind of

461
02:20:55.600 --> 02:21:12.640
things. We would not have that source of income. So, I just want to put the money concerns that I have about all of this out on the table for us to think about before we vote on this. >> Okay. >> Vice Mayor Sue, you had your light on next. >> Okay. I am also a numbers guys. People,

462
02:21:12.640 --> 02:21:29.359
if you forgot, uh I was also like Miss Kane, head of fact, and I do numbers too. Let's talk about numbers. We just in the last meeting alone had a lobbyist who resigned. 100,000 saving right there and more. And we are

463
02:21:29.359 --> 02:21:44.960
just getting started. We are going to put an end to every fluff dollar, every waste that has been happening in the system. And it's coming in the budget season. Trust me, it's coming. We are going to put an end to a very

464
02:21:44.960 --> 02:22:02.720
expensive former town manager contract soon. One way or the other, it will happen soon. Now, let me tell you something more than numbers. How many of you have ever called 911 in a situation when you are in real danger?

465
02:22:02.720 --> 02:22:19.760
How many of you? I did. I have. I have. And when you are in that moment, nothing else matters. Nothing else. Every second counts. And only thing that happens is how fast the law enforcement gets here.

466
02:22:19.760 --> 02:22:34.960
how fast and in other words it's called response time. So please show me the data that says that removing a dedicated 24 by7 police presence three shifts from our

467
02:22:34.960 --> 02:22:50.880
town will have zero impact on response time. Please show me the data that says otherwise because common sense tells us otherwise. So we have two choices and I'm not going to lie to you. I'm going to tell you those two choices. First choice is we roll the dice. We roll the

468
02:22:50.880 --> 02:23:08.080
dice on that response time. We roll the dice on the safety of our children and families. We roll the dice on our town's relationship with the governor and cabinet knowing that this issue has been escalated by PBSO and they're getting ready to fight legally with us as well.

469
02:23:08.080 --> 02:23:24.560
So while we do so we are losing the potential revenue from the speed camera whether case goes one way or the other but potential and the safety of our children our school. So we risk our town's reputation. If you Google search locks first thing it says it doesn't

470
02:23:24.560 --> 02:23:40.000
have the money to pay its law enforcement. So so this choice means when we make that 911 call you wait. You wait. Okay. Now let's look at the second option which I call responsibility.

471
02:23:40.000 --> 02:23:57.600
We shake hands with BBSO, one of the most respected law enforcement agencies in the country, which by the way also protects our president when he's in the town. And just to be clear, I'm not saying we rubber stamp and I'm not for rubber stamping the status quo. We have

472
02:23:57.600 --> 02:24:14.080
to reshape and we will reshape this relationship. We will have greater residential patrol visibility. Patrol cars will be going all around North Road, letter roads, everywhere. We will have stronger traffic enforcement by the way, which we have

473
02:24:14.080 --> 02:24:31.040
never figured out where the ticket those traffic tickets on Okobee, where that revenue goes, however small we want that. And we want more proactive protection for our schools and places of worship. You know, it's interesting to me that we have places of worship here

474
02:24:31.040 --> 02:24:47.520
and what's going on in the world. We need more immediate police presence and not less. We will ensure commercial areas pay their fair share through private security or appropriate cost allocation so the residents don't carry that burden. We know that 80% of calls are originating from commercial. We need

475
02:24:47.520 --> 02:25:05.200
to fix that system. But that has nothing to do with PBS. So yes, they may be there, but we need to fix that. So let me ask you this. Do we roll the dice or do we choose responsibly? I choose responsibly. We either have help nearby where seconds

476
02:25:05.200 --> 02:25:21.760
matter or we wait. I choose nearby. We fix the system but we don't just remove the protection while we are fixing it. So I ask my colleagues for their support for resolution 202634. Thank you.

477
02:25:21.760 --> 02:25:40.240
>> Thank you. Uh Council Member Stevens, I believe you're next. So during the campaign, I met with people on both sides of the issue. Those that wanted the contract to stay in place and those that uh questioned it. So if anything, I mean, awareness was

478
02:25:40.240 --> 02:25:55.760
raised um as to uh this contract and what we get and specifically what we're paying. And Mr. Kurts, you know, I'm going to ask this question. You know, it's coming and I'm not expecting an answer, but just to get it on the record. Uh, and this it comes from many

479
02:25:55.760 --> 02:26:12.720
many residents and it's on both sides actually and they ask me what are we getting for is 680,000 roughly give or take a couple in there. What are we getting for $680,000? Is there a list? Is there a breakdown? Is there something that we could refer to to just have some just some hard

480
02:26:12.720 --> 02:26:28.960
data? Again, I'm asking it rhetorical tonight, so no pressure there. Uh, but I assure those residents I would pass that question along and see if down the road is something that we can look into a little further. I think it's a fair question. Second question, this kind of

481
02:26:28.960 --> 02:26:46.240
has has reared itself in the last oh, I don't know, few weeks. And I'm not expecting an answer here this evening, but hopefully maybe it's something that this council can dig into and maybe we could find the answer. just for future reference. I would like to know if for no other reason, me personally, if we do

482
02:26:46.240 --> 02:27:02.560
not have and I'm not campaigning either either way, I I seconded the motion, so I'm on board. Councilman Siri, so don't if your hair stands up on the back of your I'm not there. Okay. >> Yeah, I'm not going there. So, uh but um

483
02:27:02.560 --> 02:27:18.319
do we risk losing our charter if we do not have this contract? That's the question. And it's out there. And the reason I'm bringing it up is because I think there's a lot of misinformation, a lot of rumors going around. There's people saying, "Oh, yeah." People saying, "Oh, no." I'd love to get to the

484
02:27:18.319 --> 02:27:32.720
bottom of that. And I don't know if we need to run that up the flag pole to get that answer, but uh just down the road, I think it's worth getting that information out to the residents. Uh but nonetheless, Councilman, I got you back. >> I think he has the answer to that question. >> Okay. I hope so. If you do, be great.

485
02:27:32.720 --> 02:27:52.160
>> Yeah. with respect to um the charter being taken away or the dissolution of the municipality. Um under uh chapter 165 Florida statutes uh there's two ways to dissolve a municipality. Um, one is

486
02:27:52.160 --> 02:28:08.640
by action of the Florida legislature, a special bill reversing um uh the um the grant of a a charter. And the second is through the action of the mun the

487
02:28:08.640 --> 02:28:25.200
municipality and a vote of its citizens. You can go through a process there. The governor's only role in that uh would come in if there was a special act. Um they would have to approve the the special act. The cabinet and the

488
02:28:25.200 --> 02:28:41.520
governor do not have any power to dissolve the municipality, take away the charter and enforce the charter per se. What the governor does have is the power

489
02:28:41.520 --> 02:28:57.520
to suspend um local government officials if they um are violating their duties, but it's a very high standard. It usually comes about if there has been um an arrest for

490
02:28:57.520 --> 02:29:15.359
a serious crime. Um not a parking night. >> No, that that's all I want to do is get that out there on the record. I think that's A lot of folks have been needing to hear that, including myself, been needing to hear that for a long time and it just u I think sometimes some of the information that we're trying to put out

491
02:29:15.359 --> 02:29:30.720
there gets lost in the shuffle. So, thank you for putting that out there, sir. >> The the influence of the of the governor and the um and the other cabinet officials, it it could weigh in with respect to uh funding allocations and

492
02:29:30.720 --> 02:29:45.439
those kind of things that they have the power to um administer. >> Thank you. Is Jeff another question? >> Can we go to Paul first? >> Sure. >> Hold hold hold that thought. >> Paul, are you uh >> Yeah. So I I have a couple things so

493
02:29:45.439 --> 02:30:01.520
bear with me. So So to answer Mr. Sud's question twice and I mentioned this in a meeting before multiple times twice I called PBSO to my house twice. one outside of the contract before we were

494
02:30:01.520 --> 02:30:17.439
incorporated and one while we were inside the contract under incorporation both times half hour to 45 minutes. So, so there granted granted it was the second time when it was in contract was

495
02:30:17.439 --> 02:30:32.800
New Year's or excuse me was uh Christmas morning at about 2:00 a.m. But I would think if we have dedicated personnel, we have dedicated personnel 365, right? not not, you know, oh, we're relying on somebody from out off of

496
02:30:32.800 --> 02:30:49.840
North Lake Boulevard in similar Pratt to come to my house is near Dro and Southern Boulevard, which if I had lights and a siren, I could have probably got there faster than 30 minutes, but that's here or there. Um, so that's to answer that question. Um, to answer Joe's question about the

497
02:30:49.840 --> 02:31:05.200
services that are available, it's it's in the contract. It's in a copy of the contract. There's a list of some generic stuff. the crime lab, marine patrol, right? Number one, crime lab. Wouldn't you think if a crime was committed in in in your home that you

498
02:31:05.200 --> 02:31:21.200
automatically would get the crime lab, right? But marine patrol, why do we need marine patrol? Okay. I mean, my question is to Jeff, and I think it's a more pointed question. Jeff, are we in violation of the charter? Because I remember when we voted on this the first time, you said we weren't in violation

499
02:31:21.200 --> 02:31:37.120
of the charter because of a resolution that was passed by a previous council. Am I correct or am I mistaken? >> Uh there was an ordinance passed by um a previous council. I think it's um ordinance 20 2406

500
02:31:37.120 --> 02:31:52.000
>> 05 I believe. >> 20 was it 256? >> 20 2405 I believe. >> 2405. All right. I stand what was the broad what was the broad brush Jeff? the the broad brush was that uh there was an

501
02:31:52.000 --> 02:32:09.040
or ordinance passed um that said in the event that the uh town doesn't have a contract for um law enforcement services uh the town would be satisfied with services that

502
02:32:09.040 --> 02:32:25.600
were um provided by the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office uh consistent with the services that they provide in unincorporated areas. Um, and there is no guaranteed level of service in unincorporated areas. There's no

503
02:32:25.600 --> 02:32:43.680
guaranteed level of service under our contract. What was guaranteed was um a certain staffing >> um that was out there. There is not a guarant or anything like that. >> Right. So the 6 the 680 provides us uh

504
02:32:43.680 --> 02:32:59.760
five deputies and some leadership staff. Correct. >> And and all thements that that come with the the deputies, their >> right their cars, their >> Okay. All those kind of things. So

505
02:32:59.760 --> 02:33:14.319
>> So the point is we're not in violation of our charter, >> right? There's no state law, correct me if I'm wrong, Jeeoff, there's no state law that requires us to pay a premium contract with the sheriff's department. Correct.

506
02:33:14.319 --> 02:33:32.080
>> Um that is correct. they have not cited to any state law that uh says that. >> So we have we have those instances. Then we have that possibly in November tax reform uh bills could be passed, right?

507
02:33:32.080 --> 02:33:46.560
Could be voted on by people who are new to our state who have no vested interest or what have you. New to our state could totally upend the way that we do things in the state. that would give them the

508
02:33:46.560 --> 02:34:02.800
right to maintain this $680,000 a year. No matter how much you cut, if half of our half of our revenues taken away, we're we're we're out of gas. Okay. So, we got that, right? So, we're we're we're everybody's talking about these

509
02:34:02.800 --> 02:34:18.319
pie in the sky stuff. The school is is is is policed by school police. It's not policed by by the sheriff's department. If something goes down at the school or at the hospital, the sheriff's department is going to show up. Actually, the hospital's not even in our

510
02:34:18.319 --> 02:34:34.000
jurisdiction. So, but if something goes down at the at at the school, PBSO is going to show up, right? If something goes down at your house and you call, they're going to show up because they have to. They're duty bound. There's they're they're statutoily bound to

511
02:34:34.000 --> 02:34:49.840
protect the citizens of the state of the county, right? It's part of being law enforcement. The the issue here is, and I I've said it a number of times, if we want to have a real negotiation right now, the negotiation is, hey, listen, we'll forgive these couple months, but you're going to keep paying out the end

512
02:34:49.840 --> 02:35:07.439
of the contract, then we'll shut up because what's going to happen is if the if tax repeal comes in in in November, he's locked in at 680, right? If if if we maintain, right, then and and and he

513
02:35:07.439 --> 02:35:24.800
doesn't fight us, right? our little 680 because I have a feeling we're probably on the lower tier of payments being made to the sheriff's department. If if if we maintain our stance that we have right now and we don't pay this exorbitant bill, right? Then what's to say another

514
02:35:24.800 --> 02:35:39.840
municipality might say, "Hey, wait a minute. I don't want to pay mine." Right? So, I mean, logic dictates that the stance is going to be you're going to pay the bill. That's what you're going to do. There's no negotiation. Why can't we negotiate? You know, red speed

515
02:35:39.840 --> 02:35:55.760
isn't going to be our savior even if it even if the case doesn't happen down south and whatever and we maintain red speed and we maintain getting a bill, that bill is going to go down because logic would dictate that more people are going to find out that you're going to get a ticket if you speed in this

516
02:35:55.760 --> 02:36:11.200
section, right? They're going to slow down. So, less tickets are going to be handed out. I would love to see deputies on Okobee Boulevard all the time writing tickets, right? Because I've said it before, when I was a kid back in the day, when I first started driving, you

517
02:36:11.200 --> 02:36:28.319
know, up until PBSO took over in Royal Palm, nobody drove down Okachobee and Royal Palm, right? And if you because of the because of how strict the the policy was from Royal Palm PD to ticket individuals on Royal Palm Beach B or

518
02:36:28.319 --> 02:36:44.240
excuse me, on Okobee, right? Even Royal Palm Beach Boulevard. Nobody trans traverse that place because if you're going 31 32 m an hour, you got a ticket. And I'm not exaggerating. You can ask anybody who's been here that long. So

519
02:36:44.240 --> 02:37:00.319
it's not, you know, I I've heard people say defund. I'm not saying defund the We're not defunding. They're getting paid already. This is an extra on top fee to have five individuals, right?

520
02:37:00.319 --> 02:37:17.439
And leadership staff and cars, etc., everything that comes with it, as Jeff said, right? When I can tell you that fire rescue, I guarantee you, costs more dollars an hour to maintain fire rescue in this town per day. I don't have numbers. I wish I did, but I guarantee

521
02:37:17.439 --> 02:37:33.280
you Fire Rescue is spending more dollars per day in our town and they get one they they they bill us one time. That's what their M was MSTU. Am I saying that correctly? >> Yes. So, so I, so I I don't understand,

522
02:37:33.280 --> 02:37:49.840
>> you know, you know, to say to all this this pomp and circumstance say we're defunding the police that we're we're worried the the people that are are arguing about how much we're paying are worried about our residents. The we're not it's not that we're not worried about our residents. It's not that we don't want our residents to be safe.

523
02:37:49.840 --> 02:38:05.040
It's not that I don't want my wife and my daughter to be safe. I'm not saying that. Okay? What I'm saying is what we're paying for is it it $680,000. You can cut lobbyists. You can you're not going to make up the 680. You can say that we're going to cut we cut the

524
02:38:05.040 --> 02:38:21.520
manager. So, it's an exorbitant fee for the manager. Wait till the new manager applications come in. That's all I got to tell you about that. So, you know, that's where we're at. You know, he's going to he meaning the sheriff's department, sorry, the sheriff's department is going to double down every

525
02:38:21.520 --> 02:38:37.840
time and say you're going to pay this bill. this is what the contract is, this is what it is. Whether whether previous councils didn't want to stand up to it, whatever the case may be, the reality is if we had a more allocart menu and we could pick and choose our services and we could direct things and we were

526
02:38:37.840 --> 02:38:53.280
seeing some, you know, not even money back cuz like you said, you repeated what I said before, where's the money from the tickets that have been written, right? I brought that up months ago, right? That wouldn't compensate. it would help take a little dent out. But

527
02:38:53.280 --> 02:39:08.960
this is what we're dealing with here. So stay the course and you know that's you know we we re re-up this this contract right and then November happens. I know it's an if but November happens

528
02:39:08.960 --> 02:39:24.560
and we're stuck with 680 and and 50% less revenue. So, I mean, you know, again, it just the the numbers don't add up, and I don't think we're any less

529
02:39:24.560 --> 02:39:42.399
safe today than we were in November. The crime rate hasn't skyrocketed. That was one of the things that was going around on the news or in on the on Facebook. The all every all the criminals are going to come to Lockx Hatche Groves because the the the

530
02:39:42.399 --> 02:39:58.080
deputies aren't there. Well, the deputies are here. They got to be here. We're just not paying for the extra. So, I don't, you know, don't make it out like the people that are were saying, "Hey, we're paying too much money for this." It don't want people to be safe. That's not it. We're saying we're paying

531
02:39:58.080 --> 02:40:16.080
too much money. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, Council Member Kane, you had a question. >> Yeah, I I I just I have two things to say. The first one is I have a question for Valerie and Jeff. Um, as the two charter officers, has there been any

532
02:40:16.080 --> 02:40:32.399
feedback from the April Fool's Day letter that the sheriff sent to Tallahassee? Anybody from the legislature called you or from the cabinet or from the governor's office and say, "We're going to take away your charter or uninorporate you or boo or we got the letter and we're concerned or anything?" >> Not to my

533
02:40:32.399 --> 02:40:49.040
>> I have not received any phone calls. >> Okay. And the second thing that I just want to point out again is that um of that 680 uh we did a breakdown and I believe it was about $500,000 of it is spent uh if you look at the number of calls that we have in residential as

534
02:40:49.040 --> 02:41:02.960
opposed to commercial areas. This is why this is one of the options we were trying to explore in negotiations before and I'm sure you probably tried to look at it too, but they were unwilling to look at it was to somehow have separate zones, right? And have the commercial

535
02:41:02.960 --> 02:41:19.439
zone basically which pay about $500,000 of that 680 goes to police in the commercial zone and the rest of it is for the rest of town. And so it seems like a really unfair um

536
02:41:19.439 --> 02:41:35.600
balance to our residents of them picking up the tab for the increased crime in a certain area. And that's why we were trying to look at a different option of of trying to re reestablish that uh liability. So, what I'm going to suggest

537
02:41:35.600 --> 02:41:51.359
at this time that maybe we table this and we let our FAAC look at this and look at the numbers and um look at these things and come back with some recommendations because I'd sure be interested to hear what they have to say about um the potential impacts on the

538
02:41:51.359 --> 02:42:08.000
budget moving forward and, you know, have them really take a deep dive analytical look at all of this, what we're spending, what we're spending in certain areas and and that's that's where I would like to go with this. Thank you, M. Council Member Stevens, you had your light on next. >> Yeah, Council Member Kaine just said

539
02:42:08.000 --> 02:42:25.040
something that just I mean, I just had a question pop in my head and and um you said something I've been thinking about for a long long time as you know, sitting back there watching you guys up here and wrestling and your comment was, you know, they're not wanting to take a look at it. And I've been back there

540
02:42:25.040 --> 02:42:41.680
kind of screaming along with y'all at times going, why aren't they willing to look at it? So, I just want to kind of reflect that comment that you made and say I've asked myself the same thing like why not, you know, what's what are we missing here? But nonetheless, we can talk about that down the road. It's just

541
02:42:41.680 --> 02:42:58.640
>> Thank you. >> You said that. I heard it. That's all. >> Thank you. >> Was there anything else? Okay, Vice Mayor Sud, you had your >> fellow colleague colleagues, and I'm going to be very positive about it, but let me say this in very kind words. Your

542
02:42:58.640 --> 02:43:16.960
negotiation strategy has flopped. Flopped. Okay. I was elected on this very issue, so I know a thing or two. I talked to the residents. What did your negotiation strategy achieve? A a very very bad reputationally harmful

543
02:43:16.960 --> 02:43:32.560
headline in the newspaper. Uh a a PBSO lawyers threatening to sue us for breaching the contract. uh they taking us to the governor and state where you just said you want to build relationship with the county and

544
02:43:32.560 --> 02:43:47.920
the state and PBSO has has a tremendous tremendous pull at the state level and they are telling the governor and this and the cabinet that this town here and we need money from this governor and

545
02:43:47.920 --> 02:44:04.160
this very cabinet that these guys breached the contract and whether legally or not but there we are there there there we We have no service. We are losing this camera revenue whether judgment goes one way or the other and we are losing this

546
02:44:04.160 --> 02:44:22.640
response time. So here is my question for the town attorney. Sir, I'm asking very simple question. Did we in our town charter and Mr. Coleman asked the same question. Are we violating the town charter by having no

547
02:44:22.640 --> 02:44:39.359
contract with BBSO and no incriminal police force? Are we violating our town's charter? Yes or no? Or you don't know for sure? >> The town um passed the ordinance that we spoke

548
02:44:39.359 --> 02:44:55.279
of. >> Can you speak closer to the microphone? I can't hardly hear you. The town passed the ordinance I spoke of earlier for the expressed purpose of meeting the charter requirement. >> I'm asking you a simp again. Let me

549
02:44:55.279 --> 02:45:13.200
restate my question. Are we violating our town's charter by having no PBSO contract and no internal police for? Yes, no or you are not sure? This to be debated in the courts. Three options. Which one is it?

550
02:45:13.200 --> 02:45:29.840
>> My job is to represent the the town. Um, and the answer is no. We're not violating our charter and there has been no challenge to position. >> Okay, >> that hasn't been a challenge, but I see the letter from PBSO. So, it's not like

551
02:45:29.840 --> 02:45:46.240
they said, "Oh, yes, you have no legal issue and thank you very much." And we accept it. They said, "We are reserving all the rights." >> Okay. Second question. Uh did we uh break this contract in a proper fashion? The PBSO is alleging that we breached

552
02:45:46.240 --> 02:46:03.680
our contract. Did we terminate the contract? In other words, does PBSO have any legal um cause to pursue us for improperly breaching the contract? Yes. No. Or you or this issue can be litigated.

553
02:46:03.680 --> 02:46:22.080
They should they choose they have the right to um >> the third option they can choose and you you have >> any answer >> they >> they can no >> they can choose um to sue us for breach of contract. Um our defense in that

554
02:46:22.080 --> 02:46:39.600
would be that they had not provided services um and they are not entitled to payment um in the absence of providing the services under the contract. That would be the the situation. Um and those

555
02:46:39.600 --> 02:46:56.319
things uh would be argued before the court. I'm not they have not um uh told us that they would um sue us at this point. >> Okay. They haven't told us. But have

556
02:46:56.319 --> 02:47:12.479
they told you they are not going to sue you? Have they told you specifically they're waving their rights? >> No. >> Okay. There. There you go. Absence of no is not yes. Okay. All right. Next question. I'm sorry, Mr. Coleman. I heard your story that you called police

557
02:47:12.479 --> 02:47:29.120
twice and they took 30 minutes. I'm sorry but I also remember I was sitting on those very seats whenever PBSO captain came everybody said sir what a great job you are doing nobody asked them this question nobody measured this data what is the response time nobody

558
02:47:29.120 --> 02:47:46.160
asked this question okay so I'm sorry you had bad incident but I'm not going to make in my opinion make a decision based on two in two incidents maybe we should investigate what happened but I'm not going to risk roll the dice based on those two incidents. Now next question.

559
02:47:46.160 --> 02:48:02.560
So let's talk about coming back to my original point. The town has spoken and I have talked about this issue at length. Your negotiation strate when I I'm not saying individually please you are all friends and I know you have good heart and it's

560
02:48:02.560 --> 02:48:19.680
coming from good heart that's as your previous strategy has failed. So let us do something different and better for the town. And this is what I propose. Shake hands with PBSO. Give them that 15 days payment when they

561
02:48:19.680 --> 02:48:36.160
did perform the service small payment in good faith. Let's get their contract going. And I agree with all of you that let's sit down and figure out that this commercial where they are spending 80% of their time they need to that

562
02:48:36.160 --> 02:48:53.439
commercial people publiclix or whoever that is has to either hire their private security or they have to take that cost on. But I'm not going to expose our people and roll the dice on the safety of our children and our families just

563
02:48:53.439 --> 02:49:09.479
because they are not paying their fair share or just because Mr. Coleman had to incident. So I propose once again that we move forward with this motion and I would also request any public comments.

564
02:49:09.920 --> 02:49:24.560
>> Thank you Lisa. Did you comment? >> Thank Wow. Yeah. Um, so, so I have not weighed in yet and I I would uh direct council and I'll let the public know that uh I apologize. My intent was to

565
02:49:24.560 --> 02:49:42.880
produce a report after the April 13th meeting um with the sheriff representation that was here at town hall. Uh it kind of outlines what was discussed. >> Is this your report, Lisa, that was just handed to us at the beginning of the >> Yes, ma'am. Yes. Yes. And I apologize. I

566
02:49:42.880 --> 02:50:00.399
>> I had to go out of town. And anyway, one of the things that I had asked of Colonel Coleman was what what optically uh from the end of enhanced services uh has changed because anecdotally people

567
02:50:00.399 --> 02:50:15.680
still see the the patrol cars driving around. Um the gentleman who's standing at our doorway tonight um he is on an overtime assignment. So we we are not uh getting these guys anymore part of our contract. They they're agreeing to come

568
02:50:15.680 --> 02:50:33.680
in and hang out with us. So at at a cost. So uh he said the biggest um change that would be visible would be in uh traffic enforcement. So I asked him to please provide the data uh for yearto date. So total CAD if

569
02:50:33.680 --> 02:50:51.840
anybody recalls going back into previous uh annual reports uh total CAD calls in 2025 year to date uh would be 5,000 19 in the in that year and then year to date in 2026 they're about half 2456

570
02:50:51.840 --> 02:51:07.279
calls on the total CAD that breaks down to traffic >> sorry excuse me that I just want to be clear was the 59 was so the firstly half a year of 2021. >> No, it's year. It's year. So, I'm sorry. Their year begins on the calendar year. >> Okay.

571
02:51:07.279 --> 02:51:22.080
>> So, their year does not coincide with our fiscal year, which I thought was odd. >> So, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for clar I need clarification. So, >> January of 25. >> No, no. year to date January to I guess

572
02:51:22.080 --> 02:51:37.920
April 20th or whenever he provided me these numbers >> of 26 >> of no 2025 that same time period >> okay >> first well first quarter of the calendar year give or take >> roughly yeah >> you know 10 10 15 days

573
02:51:37.920 --> 02:51:51.680
>> is >> 519 total CAD calls >> okay >> 26 2456 >> okay the traffic stops, which he said this is be where your impact would be

574
02:51:51.680 --> 02:52:10.000
most visible. 533 traffic stops in 25 24 traffic stops in 26. Vehicle crashes 25 there was 38.

575
02:52:10.000 --> 02:52:36.240
In 26 there was 56. Business and residence checks in 25 were 3,698 and year-to- date 26 1,421. >> That's resident and business checks. Lisa, >> that's how he he sent it to me. Business residence checks. And I think that's how

576
02:52:36.240 --> 02:52:53.200
>> calls up that's where your shopping center falls. >> That is um generally the big lump as you go back through all the data. uh in 25 arrests there was 24 year to date and in 26 there was 19. So the these numbers of

577
02:52:53.200 --> 02:53:10.080
course don't don't give us a lot of detail. So but at least it's it's some data to go by. Um I I had you'll you'll read in my report there was some other concerns that were expressed and you know we're all sort of standing in our

578
02:53:10.080 --> 02:53:27.680
camps at this point. So the April 1st letter I had asked also Mr. Curts earlier today if we had heard back on that and uh apparently at this point we have not and you know what is the

579
02:53:27.680 --> 02:53:43.840
mechanism that one can get these businesses that are generating these calls right and and is there a legal mechanism to do that right and I think that's been a question that other councils have have struggled with um so

580
02:53:43.840 --> 02:54:01.120
statistically level of service optically um paying the officer here tonight and the the sort of looming question of the legal legal thresholds of our charter etc. and and the contract. Uh it's it's

581
02:54:01.120 --> 02:54:18.160
my understanding that any breach per the language of the the contract would be uh nullified by payment of services rendered in that month of December. I'm no lawyer. Not not even close. So, but that that's my understanding. So, that's

582
02:54:18.160 --> 02:54:35.520
kind of where that meeting went and I think most of you have have touched on a lot of the the things that were raised in that meeting as well. So, I would uh open the floor to public comment at this point.

583
02:54:35.520 --> 02:54:58.800
>> Yes, Madame Mayor. We have four comment cards. The first is Robert Shore. Thank you, Madame Mayor. Vice Mayor, Council Robert Shore, 1742E Road. Um, who ask yourself this, not

584
02:54:58.800 --> 02:55:15.279
>> lean heavily. >> Quit saying, is it a violation of our charter? Ask yourself one question. If we want to become a town today and we submitted to the state a charter that didn't include

585
02:55:15.279 --> 02:55:33.200
a separate contract for PBSO or an adjoining municipality or our own town police department, which is exactly what it says in our charter, or we get to include an MSTU with fire rescue. No, we're just going to piggy back back off existing county services.

586
02:55:33.200 --> 02:55:51.840
We're not going to pay 3.45 45 mills for MSTU for fire rescue. Would the state give us a charter to be a town? Hell no. We asked for one exception when we became a town, our charter, and that was

587
02:55:51.840 --> 02:56:07.760
density. We did not have a high enough density to meet the state requirements to become a town. So, we asked for that exception and they gave that to us. Everything else was by the book. What you need to do to become a town in the

588
02:56:07.760 --> 02:56:27.279
state of Florida. Man, you beat Todd. I were the numbers 75% to 2560 by at least 2/3. And Todd waved the flag. No PBSO. No PBSO. We don't need it. We're already paying for it. Well,

589
02:56:27.279 --> 02:56:44.000
the resident spoke. That was a critical issue in this election. So, at least two out of every three or three out of every four residents said, "No, I'm not supporting the guy that is saying, "No, we'll just make do with

590
02:56:44.000 --> 02:56:59.439
what the rest of the unincorporated area has and wherever the deputy is, he'll get to us or she'll get to us whenever they get to us." No, we committed when we became a town to have dedicated law enforcement in our town. The demographics of this town have

591
02:56:59.439 --> 02:57:16.640
changed. used to be pickup trucks, swamp buggies. Now the BMWs probably outnumber the pickup trucks. You know, I looked in the parking lot event one day and after we came to town 19 years ago, there' be

592
02:57:16.640 --> 02:57:32.399
nine pickup trucks and one car. I looked and there was two pickup trucks and like eight cars. So, the demographics have changed. The people have more expensive toys to protect in our town. more expensive vehicles, golf carts,

593
02:57:32.399 --> 02:57:48.000
tractors. We have so much that happens in this town that you don't even know about. Even as a council member in the residence, there's so much undercover work that happens in this town. There's license plate readers. There's cameras

594
02:57:48.000 --> 02:58:04.800
that get put up in suspicious areas. There's a street team that's out there. So, there's a lot that is not visible. And please support this resolution. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> The next individual we have is Frank

595
02:58:04.800 --> 02:58:32.080
Shyola Frank Shyola Marcelo Boulevard. I have here for I know I had a one of the council people ask me for this and I'm bringing here so everybody has a chance to see this. This is from from one of our former law firms, Persia,

596
02:58:32.080 --> 02:58:48.960
Donlin, uh, Gdau, and Ruben. And they it's a it's a four-page letter to the council at the time dated April 19th, 2021 addressing the same issue. Um, and I will bring this up and hand it

597
02:58:48.960 --> 02:59:06.080
to you so you all can make copies of it and look at it for yourself and read it. It's very interesting reading. Um, but it does say in there, you know, just to to put a couple of um of pieces of the puzzle there that um section 116.049

598
02:59:06.080 --> 02:59:21.920
Florida statutes requires municipal law enforcement a agency to provide the following. Schedule at least two law enforce officers to be on duty at all times. While on duty, each officer must be able to communicate directly with the other, and if not, engage in another law

599
02:59:21.920 --> 02:59:39.200
enforcement activity, respond to the other officer's request for assistance. Now, because we're using sheriff's office, they're all on the same frequency. They're they're dispatched at the same call center. But what happens if if our law

600
02:59:39.200 --> 02:59:54.160
enforcement officer out here, our deputy is tied up on a call? Well, they'll send another another person to there. But the thing is that they're looking at it as severity of call. If you go ahead and you say, "I got a suspicious vehicle that drove by my house twice." That's

601
02:59:54.160 --> 03:00:10.960
not suspicious. But if you said, "Hey, there's somebody trying to kick in my door right now and I think they got a gun or whatever, they're going to be sending everybody in locks and everybody from the surrounding areas." That's just the way it is. So, you know, you look at Well, yeah. Um, when I first moved out

602
03:00:10.960 --> 03:00:27.920
here, I got came home from work and there was a a car in the in the vacant lot next to me and it was a stolen car. It took the sheriff's office two days to get out here, but that was not an emergency. There's no life hazard, nothing like that. So, it's all about the call. You know, we um and like

603
03:00:27.920 --> 03:00:42.720
Robert said, you know, the voters have spoken. They said, "We want the sheriff's office out here." So, you know, and and if you don't believe that and and yeah, there's a lot of of tough things that need to be decided on, but um you know, if you want to be really sure of it, you have a vote from the

604
03:00:42.720 --> 03:00:57.600
residents and ask them just the one questions on the ballot about should we have a PBSO contract or not? And I think that you would be not surprised that a lot of people would say yes. I think it would be 60 70 80%.

605
03:00:57.600 --> 03:01:13.359
So, uh here's something for for y'all to have. I'll bring it up and you can receive and file. >> Motion to file and receive. >> Yes. Thank you. We have a second. >> Second, K. >> Okay. We have a motion to receive and file by council member Kaine

606
03:01:13.359 --> 03:01:30.399
and a second by Council Member Stevens. All those in favor? >> I. >> Joe, did you vote? >> Oh, yeah. I >> Yeah. Well, they're going to make we'll get these uh in response to that. This

607
03:01:30.399 --> 03:01:44.479
was provided um to uh town attorney Curts um back earlier. So it is in the town files as well. Uh any other public comments, please? >> Yes, Mayor. Um Tracy Raffleitz, I hope I didn't.

608
03:01:44.479 --> 03:02:03.600
>> Sorry. Motion passes 5. Sorry. >> Mayor, after Mrs. Rafitz is done, can I clarify something, please? >> Yes. She's up at the podium though, so hold that thought. >> Yeah. Good evening. Tracy Rafitz Fro. I think there's a very big misconception

609
03:02:03.600 --> 03:02:19.680
in our community about so we pay for the Palm Beach County. So through our taxes I have a lot of written notes here. So um if it's Joe, thank you because I have a lot of the same questions that you do. Um I think the biggest issue that the

610
03:02:19.680 --> 03:02:36.800
town had was or the residents had was the breach of contract. When you have a contract, you pay the contract. There is approximately what 10 17 days um that were not paid. We pay that. We need to negotiate this contract. We're paying $680,000 for something we already

611
03:02:36.800 --> 03:02:53.279
get. Um I think this is an overbloated contract. It's giving the the residents a false sense of security. If one deputy that was here for town gets called to Wellington, they're pulling from every everywhere else. So no matter what, we

612
03:02:53.279 --> 03:03:09.439
already have service. We had an incident. We had called the nine the non 911. We had two deputies show up within 10 15 minutes. Hello. Um I see more presence now than I did before. Fro, I

613
03:03:09.439 --> 03:03:29.520
see them all the time. I see them pulling over people for speeding or whatever they're pulling them over for. Um, is there a public safety gap for the contract for the Is it correct? Um, oh, wrong one. Is there a public

614
03:03:29.520 --> 03:03:45.359
safety gap? I've noticed better service since December. Why is that? Um, I really haven't noticed a difference. I don't know if anybody else has. We pay PBSO in our taxes. What are the enhanced services? And I think that's the biggest thing, the misconception of our

615
03:03:45.359 --> 03:04:00.960
community. Oh, we're talking about we're not paying Palm Beach Palm Beach County. So, but we are. We're paying them through our taxes that we pay the county. What are these enhanced services? They're not for us. They're for uh Publix, Culver's, wherever. I see

616
03:04:00.960 --> 03:04:15.520
two deputies all the time behind Culver's at the roundabout sitting there. If you ask them what they're doing, are they doing paperwork? Are they patrolling for us? I don't feel any less safe as a as a citizen. Um, where's the money that was budgeted

617
03:04:15.520 --> 03:04:32.240
for PBS though from last year? I really think it's in the contingency fund. Okay. Um, because everybody keeps saying, "Oh, it's not there. There's only this much money left." Um, the biggest thing that I noticed that this contract, you said it, Jeff,

618
03:04:32.240 --> 03:04:49.600
there's no guarantee for service. We're paying $600,000 for no guarantee of service. That's bothersome. And I hope everybody else realizes that Manish, not anything between you and Todd. I think the vote was more to not get Todd back up there, not oh my god, PBSO because I

619
03:04:49.600 --> 03:05:09.680
think more people are mis they have a misconception of what PBSO and the $680,000 does. Thanks. >> Thank you. So, just to touch on uh what Frank said, both times when the when they were called to my house that I've had to call

620
03:05:09.680 --> 03:05:26.880
PBS to my house was for a suspicious person on my property. One time we were at my dad's retirement dinner. My brother was home alone and there was a guy on our back porch. My dad made it from the American German

621
03:05:26.880 --> 03:05:42.800
Club on Lantana Road or excuse me, yeah, Lantana Road all the way to the house before ESO showed up. When I called on Christmas morning, there was a suspicious person that had to go through two gates to get onto my

622
03:05:42.800 --> 03:05:59.920
back deck and they were long gone by the time Sess showed up on the other side of the canal. Okay. I have heard from multiple people, not quoting anybody, but I've heard from multiple people that deputies from Wellington aren't crossing Southern Boulevard.

623
03:05:59.920 --> 03:06:16.880
If we get back up, it's coming from, you know, unincorporated locks Hatchi grows. Okay. So, I mean, all this and everything Tracy said is is point on. We're already paying for it. That's the big thing. We're the enhanced services.

624
03:06:16.880 --> 03:06:34.240
And there is a big misconception because there's a lot of gaslighting going on in this town and and this is not the only subject and you know this is what we're dealing with. So you know I don't see any I have like I said see more deputies now than we have in a couple months and

625
03:06:34.240 --> 03:06:49.920
they've they've they've admitted that they stopped service when we stopped when we said we were done. They stopped service. So they were in breach as well. So, I mean, it's a it's a tit for tat and anybody can litigate anything. I can go right now and take somebody to court because I don't like the color of their

626
03:06:49.920 --> 03:07:05.279
car. Is it going to go anywhere? No. But, I mean, anybody can litigate anything. So, to make the point though, they can be litigated. You know, I bet even if they signed something saying they weren't going to litigate, they could still litigate if they wanted to. Anybody could take anything to court. So, I mean, I'm not saying,

627
03:07:05.279 --> 03:07:21.040
look, I think the writing's on the wall here. I'm I'm probably beating my head against the wall, but and I don't think that the the pie in the sky that we're going to say, "Okay, re up the reup the contract, pay the back money." We offered to pay the back money already,

628
03:07:21.040 --> 03:07:36.479
by the way. All right. And the misconception that's out there in the public that we don't have the money to pay the contract. It's not that we don't have the money to pay the contract. We said money could be spent better in other places as far as infrastructure than paying this bloated contract. Okay?

629
03:07:36.479 --> 03:07:52.000
And that's that's where it's at. The money is sitting in a contingency. It's there to pay it, you know, but if you pay it, it's it's it if it if it's voted to pay for it, it's just going to go on. You're not going to get a renegotiation of something. Nothing's going to change

630
03:07:52.000 --> 03:08:17.760
and it'll probably go up the next time the contract's up. So, that's my two cents. >> Thank you. Do we have other public comments? >> Yes, Madame Mayor. Um Todd McClendon. Todd McClendon. Not sure how I feel about people. Just

631
03:08:17.760 --> 03:08:38.720
didn't want me here. It wasn't the sheriff's contract. >> Okay. >> So, they offered to wade the fees for the services they didn't provide in December. Wow. That was nice of them. They said they're not going to do anything with bread speed. They'll they'll look at it later. That's nice of

632
03:08:38.720 --> 03:08:54.479
him. Where are we at? We're back with the same contract that even Manish agrees needs to be renegotiated. It's a poor contract. He said all through the campaign. We failed in our negotiations. So, I guess Lisa, you failed in your negotiations. And I'm not blaming you

633
03:08:54.479 --> 03:09:11.279
for it. Okay. I know who's I know who's whose problem it is. I know why there's no negotiation there. Less speeding tickets. I wonder if it has something to do with red speed because I can assure you when I drive through there, people are doing like 12 miles an hour. That's why there's less speeding tickets. Nobody's messing around with

634
03:09:11.279 --> 03:09:29.200
that thing. My son's 20 years old and he drives 20 through there when it's uh not school zone time. Um our contract doesn't provide any guarantees level of service. Very often I would see town of lock statue rose

635
03:09:29.200 --> 03:09:46.160
truck at Mara Lago or at the fairgrounds doing duty. Is that the guy that's supposed to be here? I don't know. We never got a log as to when he was here. Never got a log when he got pulled off to lock to Wellington or in the acreage or Royal Palm Beach. We never got credit for that

636
03:09:46.160 --> 03:10:02.160
when they left. Were they leaving 20 hours a week? We don't know. Response times. They never give us response times. They said there was too many too many variables. Couldn't give us response times. It was talked about, let's see the data.

637
03:10:02.160 --> 03:10:18.240
We need to see the data that without this contract that the people are are still safe. Well, I say the other way around. Show us the data that they're not safe. We haven't seen that data like what was recommended. Let fact look at this. It was a no- bid contract. I know I heard about let's not

638
03:10:18.240 --> 03:10:35.439
have a no bid contract. These are no good. This was a no- bid contract. Ours provides five people at 680,000. South Bay, nine people at 251,000. Pokei, they get 25 people in Pokei,

639
03:10:35.439 --> 03:10:52.160
630,000. How are they paying how are they paying 50,000 less than us? They're getting five times the amount of employees in their contract. These are the things that need to be looked at. these are the things the finance committee needs to look at and say, "Hey, maybe this contract isn't

640
03:10:52.160 --> 03:11:08.960
best for us." It sounded like Joe is on the fence, like maybe he's starting to realize that maybe this isn't the best thing for us. I know where you're at, Lisa, before. You know, you waved in in in the end there at the end, but I still think you're on the right side with not moving forward this contract. We can

641
03:11:08.960 --> 03:11:25.359
still look at this in the next month. Send it the fact, let them dissect it. Let them look at it and then make the decision. Don't just dump jump into this. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Can I >> So >> I I know you do. I I think you were

642
03:11:25.359 --> 03:11:40.560
before Joe. So go ahead. >> Yes. Okay. Let me let me go. First of all, I would like the permission to add the data that Madame Mayor shared to enter into the record. Can I have a second for that? >> This is the data you shared, right?

643
03:11:40.560 --> 03:11:55.120
>> Yes. And it's it's been read into the record. >> It has been read into Okay. Let me give you data. I'm a data guy. Let's talk about data. So, compare this period January to April this year versus last year. Last year,

644
03:11:55.120 --> 03:12:10.640
we had PBSO. This year we didn't. 47% more crashes. This is this data is saying 47% more traffic crashes, guys. 61% fewer residential and business

645
03:12:10.640 --> 03:12:27.920
checks. 61% 21% lower arrests 54% lower traffic stops. So what do you want to tell? Tell tell me anybody can come here and tell me there is a 47% increase in the crashes and you're

646
03:12:27.920 --> 03:12:44.880
telling me this data is not significant. Okay. Now let me talk about something else. So this talk about no guarantee of service. Wow, what an argument. No guarantee of service. You know, I was curious about this topic and I want you

647
03:12:44.880 --> 03:13:01.120
to search about that. Do you understand that PBSO or no law enforcement agency can promise any time because it's a legally they cannot it's not it's you can look at any municipality contract they are written in that like we have

648
03:13:01.120 --> 03:13:18.160
lawyers they have lawyers they can't promise you whenever you call I guarantee it. what they will tell you. We'll make reasonable efforts if there is a bigger emergency. A spaceship is landing and killing everybody. They're going to send everybody there. So, please don't talk about service time

649
03:13:18.160 --> 03:13:32.960
because you understand that's not the norm. You in the contracts, they talk about how many resources they're giving it to you. Dedicated five uh trained police officers, they're giving us the cars and they're giving us the coverage.

650
03:13:32.960 --> 03:13:50.479
Now, let's talk about the issues. I agree with you 80% of the issues are happening on commercial and that commercial is southern and state police should be doing something about it. So we as a council together should sit down

651
03:13:50.479 --> 03:14:06.319
and say okay this is some of this southern boulevard is state's responsibility they should be doing their job and state police and we should be focusing our taxpayers dollars our resident dollars on our residential

652
03:14:06.319 --> 03:14:23.760
areas more patrols more traffic and maybe that's not 675,000 maybe we don't require that much maybe that's smaller amount we know data says 80% calls are happening on around commercial areas. So they need to pay for that. But that doesn't mean you get

653
03:14:23.760 --> 03:14:41.040
away and cancel every you cancel the very contract just because the commercial is not paying their fair share. So we will sit down. Let's move the forward with the contract. The breach of the contract that everybody agrees that shouldn't have been done. So

654
03:14:41.040 --> 03:14:57.439
we are going to repair that. We are going to sit down. We are going to negotiate together. And yes, I wouldn't name name, but I heard that Madame Mayor failed. She didn't fail. She had a great success. She got this data. She's bringing everybody together. And you

655
03:14:57.439 --> 03:15:13.760
know, I'm sorry if you think I I look very handsome and people like me more than Todd. He has a very handsome personality. That was not the reason. I promise you. My wife is sitting here. She's very happy. A lot of people voted for me because I look very handsome.

656
03:15:13.760 --> 03:15:29.920
Okay. So with that, I would like to bring that motion back. I would say let's uh let's motion to >> that's that's Lisa's job, Manish. That's Lisa's job. >> I'm sorry. >> Thank you. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Relax, please. >> Procedures. Remember we talked about procedures. >> No, you're not.

657
03:15:29.920 --> 03:15:44.800
>> My lights My lights on. >> Can I have my data back? >> Oh, yes. >> Yes. >> My my Yeah, my short lights on. >> Paul. >> Paul, I think Council Member Stevens was before you. >> Oh, sorry, Joe. Uh I thought

658
03:15:44.800 --> 03:15:59.760
>> No, sir. My comments actually to you. I If everybody was listening closely to Mr. Coleman, I believe he said he called the cops on somebody Christmas morning. Am I the only one that's disturbed that that was Santa Claus that he called the

659
03:15:59.760 --> 03:16:16.239
cops on? I just I can't get that out of my head. I can't get it out of my head. So, I mean, Mr. Coleman, if he had a red suit on, I listen. >> No, she No, she didn't. She had a red. It was Mrs. Applause. It was >> All right. I'm I'm sorry. It's just in

660
03:16:16.239 --> 03:16:33.920
my head. I had to had to throw it out there. So, >> not a problem. >> All right. Paul, go ahead. >> Last point. >> Yes. Thank you. So, so ju just because it was mentioned like three, four times. 47% of crashes, right? 47% of crashes,

661
03:16:33.920 --> 03:16:49.439
if anything, increases the amount of work that that uh that fire rescue has to do. Um but I mean it has nothing that has no bearing on what we're talking about has no bearing on safety of what more presence of it that is strictly the

662
03:16:49.439 --> 03:17:06.319
the influx of persons since say 2020 that the population in our surrounding area has grown exponentially since then. Okay. So the the more people on the road the more traes you're going to have. So I I really don't think that that's

663
03:17:06.319 --> 03:17:22.000
bearing and then that you know the the state highway patrol is not going to come um and take care of a shoplifter at Publix. So you know yeah maybe you know and state highway patrol is spread very thin. I think it will find it very hard

664
03:17:22.000 --> 03:17:38.160
to get them to patrol Southern Boulevard like you know PBSO does on the other county roads. So, and I think if you look at a lot of those speeding tickets and stuff like that, we're going to look it's focused at Okachobee and at um and at Southern, you look at those hot spots

665
03:17:38.160 --> 03:17:53.840
that they sh that we were shared uh earlier in the year. And that's where the hot spots are all along Okchobee and all along Southern. There was very few hot spots within the town where I don't know if you've experienced somebody in a pickup truck driving really fast seeing

666
03:17:53.840 --> 03:18:07.920
the speed limit go over one of the speed humps but everything in the back of the truck rises up and smacks down. I hear it every time they go by my house. So anyway, thank you. >> Thank you so

667
03:18:07.920 --> 03:18:25.520
Mr. Sued you would not consider withdrawing your motion and letting the fact take a look at this and coming back to us on the whatever the next meeting is. Do we think you can get it done in two weeks? Staff, can we get them met in the next two weeks so they can to take a look at the numbers? Is that

668
03:18:25.520 --> 03:18:42.239
>> we would have to pull them to check their availability >> since they've just been assigned this evening some of them. So jump in the deep end of the pool. Uh so to your point uh council member Kaine, we have a couple of of things on the table. We

669
03:18:42.239 --> 03:18:57.680
have the motion to approve by council member Sud and we have the suggestion of um a deeper dive analysis into the data. Uh I think there's also some competing legal question here that has been posed

670
03:18:57.680 --> 03:19:13.920
on both sides. Uh, and I would ask the the town attorney if there's a mechanism that that can be clarified if we choose to make sure that we have the standing that that we have. Um, depending on the choice tonight.

671
03:19:13.920 --> 03:19:33.200
Well, if you if we were to um get together with PBSO and um see if we could agree on a question that would be presented to the AG's

672
03:19:33.200 --> 03:19:48.560
office, that may be a way to to handle it. the question before the attorney general um would be limited to state law. And you know the if there is this question there in your minds as to

673
03:19:48.560 --> 03:20:05.120
whether or not a municipality absolutely has to have um provide law enforcement services um and is there state law on on point? That is a question we could ask the attorney general. Um, and there's a

674
03:20:05.120 --> 03:20:22.160
process to do that. The attorney general will not appine on our charter. Um, and it typically will not uh appine on an issue that is a matter of a contract dispute or any pending litigation.

675
03:20:22.160 --> 03:20:36.960
>> Okay. >> Um, if you wanted to go to a a higher authority, if you want, if you will, um, you can always ask the AG uh within those limited parameters. Um what I always tell people is um always be

676
03:20:36.960 --> 03:20:54.960
careful with what you you ask for if you may not be satisfied with the answer. Um you're in a difficult position to go against that opinion having asked for it. Um and I will remind you that the attorney general, however gloriously

677
03:20:54.960 --> 03:21:11.040
adorned and uh however many people they have working for them, is just another attorney. It is not the judge. It is not litigating of the issue. >> Okay. So, uh, Vice May Sue, you put your light on. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay.

678
03:21:11.040 --> 03:21:26.640
>> All right. Mr. Coach, uh, this letter was entered into record from Torivia dated April 19, 2021. It says that town is required to contract with either PBSO or establish its own police

679
03:21:26.640 --> 03:21:42.080
department. In their opinion, you said it's not required. So in your opinion, are you ready to change your point of view or are you still sticking with your original answer? >> The resolution will have subsequent >> No, I I'm not on on that particular

680
03:21:42.080 --> 03:21:58.640
issue at all because this was dated 2021. Um this very law this very same law firm wrote the ordinance in 2024 with the intent of satisfying the charter requirement. That is not something that

681
03:21:58.640 --> 03:22:15.760
I did. it is something that they did. Um so uh they wrote that opinion um they wrote that ordinance um to satisfy that charter requirement. Um so obviously in

682
03:22:15.760 --> 03:22:31.439
2021 they do not have the the benefit of their own work and usage of that ordinance. >> Okay. Mr. Curts, when did town breach or stop this contract? Whatever wording, when was that? Was it in September, October? >> December 1st.

683
03:22:31.439 --> 03:22:46.960
>> This Okay. December 1st. >> Yeah. The the contract was paid for in October and November and then December 1st um there was a cessation of payment. >> I'm saying when did council said pass

684
03:22:46.960 --> 03:23:03.600
the resolution to say no more PBS or renewal, cancel the contract? When was that exact? Oh. Um, that that occurred um at the March uh the March meeting >> March >> and that was that was to um terminate

685
03:23:03.600 --> 03:23:21.040
the agreement pursuant to the contract for the following year and acknowledge the fact that they had had the sessation of services. >> I appreciate it. Now, let me answer madame Kane because she asked me a question. May I? So in March 2026 when

686
03:23:21.040 --> 03:23:37.840
you were mayor you cancelled the contract you didn't come to f I was fact I was the chair of the no no let me complete please order you wanted order right >> let me complete >> you never came to fact I was there madam or former mayor I was sitting there

687
03:23:37.840 --> 03:23:54.080
>> and then all these issues happened okay we are on the newspaper and we are on the TV news and I'm sitting in fact waiting nobody came okay nobody Nobody cares now. Suddenly, let's ask back. Very interesting. Very interesting. So,

688
03:23:54.080 --> 03:24:09.760
with all due respect, this is the time to show leadership. People have spoken. I'm saying I'm not rubber stamping the status quo. I am not going to risk any single more minute of having a dedicated police officer on our street. And yes,

689
03:24:09.760 --> 03:24:24.479
if this town council approves this today, I would be the first one to call or I will ask madame mayor to call the captain and say, "Please, we want presence here. We want your patrol card on all letter roads. We want this. We

690
03:24:24.479 --> 03:24:46.359
want that. Whatever grieviances we have, we will comm for all the grieviances because your negotiation strategy has failed. Thank you so much. All right. Close. >> Madam Mayor, we have one more comment card. I'm sorry. >> Okay. >> Um, Maryanne Miles,

691
03:24:53.760 --> 03:25:11.200
Maryanne Miles. I hate this mic. Um, I didn't bring the paper with me, but the fact that the contract was in breach because it was a three-year contract.

692
03:25:11.200 --> 03:25:28.560
Um, and you guys stopped it. It still was to be paid until 2027. How many businesses do you know that would renegotiate any kind of finance

693
03:25:28.560 --> 03:25:47.840
in the middle of a contract? You knew according to that paper what was paid out, what was supposed to be paid out year after year after year and the increases.

694
03:25:47.840 --> 03:26:04.399
Several months back, I talked about this and I said for three years there was no movement in that contract. There was no upcharge, nothing for three years.

695
03:26:04.399 --> 03:26:20.800
And when I broke it down from the time that we had him until the end, it would have been about $8,000 a year. We started the contract, not me, the council's way before.

696
03:26:20.800 --> 03:26:40.479
Why? They just didn't pick a number out of the sky and go, "Uh, hey, we're going to employ PBSO." You need to look, like Robert said, at the state statutes because the state statutes

697
03:26:40.479 --> 03:26:56.239
is not specifically saying, you know, you need to require PBSO, but in order to become a town, there are certain rules and regulations and certain things that we need to be provided as a town,

698
03:26:56.239 --> 03:27:13.359
which then gave us the charter. Otherwise we wouldn't have become a town and Robert is correct again the only thing that we had because our density was not as it was they allowed us to have the density that

699
03:27:13.359 --> 03:27:30.000
we have and that is in the state statutes. So when you have a contract and that's you know we're talking about the contract the PBSO contract but that's really not the issue here. This

700
03:27:30.000 --> 03:27:45.359
is going to come up again and it's not going to be PBSO. It's going to be code enforcement. It's going to be other contracts. Where do we get money from? And that's what this council has to start looking at. You don't want commercial low on Okchobee Boulevard. Where do you get the

701
03:27:45.359 --> 03:28:00.640
money from? The same residents that are getting older and older and older that can't afford a lot now. I that's where you have to start looking. Where do you bring money in?

702
03:28:00.640 --> 03:28:16.640
How do you bring it in? >> Thank you. >> So, >> no more >> uh the breach question keeps coming up. Could that could you clarify when and if a breach occurred? And while

703
03:28:16.640 --> 03:28:33.040
it is a three-year contract, there was a clause in there that provided for termination. Could you please explain? A breach occurred in the contract when the town ceased to pay in December. That

704
03:28:33.040 --> 03:28:49.279
was a breach of the contract. It was a knowing decision by the um the council at the time, but it would have been considered a breach. Um, PBSO could have continued providing services

705
03:28:49.279 --> 03:29:04.800
and if they had sued the town while they were continuing to provide services, they probably would have been very successful in their breach contract claim. Instead of doing that, they chose to

706
03:29:04.800 --> 03:29:19.840
cease services and that would have given the town in a litigate in this in a litigation um a defense and there's probably a decent chance that we would succeed uh

707
03:29:19.840 --> 03:29:38.960
on that and say um or the damages were mitigated by the fact that you didn't provide services. Now, within the contract itself, there was a provision. It was a three-year um extension um that was last

708
03:29:38.960 --> 03:29:53.760
negotiated. There was a provision in the contract that said um either party could give notice to the other party by March 31st of any calendar year and it would be effective

709
03:29:53.760 --> 03:30:10.239
um to terminate on October 1st. So with respect to the last year of the contract, um the action was to give them notice that we were officially terminating the contract by March 31st

710
03:30:10.239 --> 03:30:27.600
um effective October 1st. With respect to that decision, um that would not be a breach of the contract because that action was contemplated within the um contract. >> Okay. Thank you for that clarification.

711
03:30:27.600 --> 03:30:43.600
So if I can summarize the there is a question of breach which would technically only apply to 26 fiscal year 26. There is a question of

712
03:30:43.600 --> 03:31:00.000
datadriven justification. Anita, would you agree with that? Uh, and then there's a question of uh, alignment with our charter and state statute. So, we have a motion on the floor to approve resolution 2026

713
03:31:00.000 --> 03:31:15.359
34 by Vice Mayor Sud and a second by Council Member Stevens. Um, Mr. Coleman, I did you have anything else you wanted to say before I take a vote since you're hard to weigh in on there?

714
03:31:15.359 --> 03:31:31.120
I see a mute. But I turned it off and I turned it. Sorry about that. Um, no, I I I just I I think tableabling it to the next meeting or whatever and let let fact dig in. Let Jeff answer those questions a little

715
03:31:31.120 --> 03:31:47.359
more toward the breach, I guess, if if need be. You know, th those are probably the pertinent things to do. Um, you know, I again, I don't think we're going to if we reup it right now, we're not going to open any kind of negotiation. Um, and albeit I don't think it's um any

716
03:31:47.359 --> 03:32:02.560
of our individual jobs to contact the sheriff's department and say, "Hey, you need to put more people on uh and and excuse me, quote unquote, direct a vendor." Because that's what they are. They're a vendor. Direct a vendor to place more persons on this street versus

717
03:32:02.560 --> 03:32:21.279
this street or um on this road or on this corner. So, thank you, mayor. And I think for clarification on the uh the charter question, state statute question that the proposal was uh AGO opinion uh suggested jointly by the town

718
03:32:21.279 --> 03:32:36.880
attorney uh to work with PBSO on phrasing that question. >> I think that would put it to bed, wouldn't it? >> That that is something that's also being discussed and proposed. So, I would like to uh take a vote on the motion

719
03:32:36.880 --> 03:32:57.920
to approve resolution 2026-34. >> All those in favor? >> I >> I >> opposed. >> Nay. >> Nay. >> Motion fails. 23. I would like a secondary motion to

720
03:32:57.920 --> 03:33:12.560
direct uh >> I'll make a motion to direct staff. Would you like me to make a motion? Please. Okay. Make sure I get it right. Okay. >> I'm making a motion. >> I'm making a motion to direct staff to

721
03:33:12.560 --> 03:33:30.000
uh assign the FAAC to Is that part of your motion or was that not part of it or you just want the attorney general opinion? What what would you like? >> Well, I I think I think data, right? I think analysis of the data whether they get an analysis from the data from the FAAC

722
03:33:30.000 --> 03:33:45.760
ASAP as soon as they can be assembled and properly noticed a meeting and given all the data that Lisa just gave and any other data that we have. Um hopefully they could bring it back by the May meeting. Cross our fingers. Maybe the

723
03:33:45.760 --> 03:34:03.120
middle one if not the first one. Um, and also Jeff, how long does it take to get that opinion? You can't answer that question. Thank you. Okay. But also to >> relatively long time. >> Okay. So, but okay. But let's get it in play. So, let's get it off the table.

724
03:34:03.120 --> 03:34:18.720
So, to and also to have Mr. Curts get together with Brian Shut and come up with a mutually agreeable question to get an opinion on >> with remember with respect to state law. with respect to state with respect to

725
03:34:18.720 --> 03:34:36.479
state law regarding this issue. >> Okay. >> So, let me thank you Paul. Let me summarize um uh a motion to direct a review of the data by fact and a joint AG opinion with town attorney Kurtz and

726
03:34:36.479 --> 03:34:52.880
PBSO attorney Brian Shut and a sec and then a second by council member Coleman. all to be brought back as soon as possible. So, I have a motion on the floor. All those in favor? >> I >> I >> I

727
03:34:52.880 --> 03:35:08.720
>> opposed. >> Opposed. >> Motion passes 41. I I look forward to fully understanding some of the drivers of of this action. It has been my position from from all of this that

728
03:35:08.720 --> 03:35:25.920
negotiation would have been the best answer and uh that has not been something that has been readily available. I I in my meetings with C Colonel Coleman and Brian Shut from PBSO, they were super helpful. Um and they're doing the best

729
03:35:25.920 --> 03:35:40.399
they can as well. Um and I think you know there was contemplation at the time of incorporation for just this scenario and that's in my early conversations with original council members. This

730
03:35:40.399 --> 03:35:58.479
action is fully within the the perceived possibilities of the future and the cost associated thereof. So again I look forward to it and and I continue to appreciate everything PBSO does for the town. >> I have alternative another motion. Can I >> Can I make another motion?

731
03:35:58.479 --> 03:36:14.479
>> No, the motion is passed. >> No, I know. But not that motion. Another motion. She proposed an alternative. I'm also opposing an alternative motion. Is that possible? >> No, it this is >> No, that is passed. I'm not opposing that motion. >> How about How about you just suggest something? >> Okay, let me suggest Let me suggest. I'm

732
03:36:14.479 --> 03:36:31.760
saying we haven't paid them for December $29,000 for which they did perform the service. So I have no rationale to hold that payment against them. >> Okay. >> Right. >> So make a motion. >> Okay. Uh that's one thing. That's one thing.

733
03:36:31.760 --> 03:36:47.760
And second, I believe something has to change because this whole you go there and they send you with something and you get some data and then you present at the last minute. That's not working either. So I propose we nominate somebody really solid and we send them

734
03:36:47.760 --> 03:37:04.479
an agenda in advance and we share the report. We need to parallelly engage with them to get this data and engage them in this process in good faith. So I would like to propose and I'm open for discussion a mechanism to engage PBSO in

735
03:37:04.479 --> 03:37:21.040
good faith negotiation and who will do it I I raised my hand I'll do it but if somebody else want to join me you all want to join me please do join I would like to on behalf or anybody can join me but I would like to open a discussion with them. I would request a motion to

736
03:37:21.040 --> 03:37:36.160
to pay the outstanding balance. >> I'll make a motion to pay the outstanding balance for the first 17 or 15 days or whatever it is. Excuse me. I'll second it. >> I'm making a motion. >> It's my motion. >> Well, >> I asked I asked

737
03:37:36.160 --> 03:37:52.880
>> she asked me to make a motion and I'm making the motion. >> I let me make the motion. I came up with this idea. How can everybody's hijacking it? Let me let me describe my motion of order. Madam Mayor, >> hold on. I you you made your point. You asked for a negotiator and you wanted to

738
03:37:52.880 --> 03:38:09.680
pay the December. I asked for a motion for payments for December. >> She has already made the motion. >> Okay. All right. >> Just for that portion. >> Right. So to repeat my motion, I'm making a motion that we pay the whatever is determined, Jeff, for those 15 or 17 days, 29,000, whatever, whatever the

739
03:38:09.680 --> 03:38:26.160
amount is, what that you determine is correct. Um, and as a part of that motion, the I think the suggested source of that would be from the contingency fund. And I used there were two was the $173,000

740
03:38:26.160 --> 03:38:43.520
contingency fund and the $55,000 contingency fund. Um, do you want to pay it? >> Use it from the $173 because that was the initial one, correct? >> No, the 550. >> Okay. So, use it from the 555 >> TBS. That's my motion that you take it

741
03:38:43.520 --> 03:38:58.560
from the 555 >> because it's only to be expended with council direction. >> Okay. So, we have a motion to uh pay the outstanding December balance uh through the contingency fund set aside for PBSO uh by council member Kaine and seconded

742
03:38:58.560 --> 03:39:13.840
by council member Coleman. All those in uh public discussion, public comments, >> none. Uh so uh all those in favor >> I >> I >> I

743
03:39:13.840 --> 03:39:30.720
>> I >> opposed hearing none motion passes 5-0. So and you had a second suggestion. >> Yes. So my suggestion is we create a backward mechanism and the speed is of the essence. So we can do everything

744
03:39:30.720 --> 03:39:45.600
parallelly. we can do all of the above you proposed and I would like to engage with BBSO to negotiate and express all these concerns. I'm sure they're watching this or somebody's watching this uh meeting

745
03:39:45.600 --> 03:40:02.640
and there is a solution to be had. So I would like to speed up that process and maybe in the next meeting or whenever sooner the possible we we we will have enough data to make a decision. So I would like to suggest that I would be a

746
03:40:02.640 --> 03:40:20.000
part of that a team team you can decide all of you or >> would you like to propose a motion? >> I would like to propose a motion first. Can we have a discussion? >> No. The motion comes before discussion. >> Okay. Can I have may I propose a motion

747
03:40:20.000 --> 03:40:37.520
to have me represent your grieviances and on a rotating basis? Next meeting somebody can do some another council member can go in the next meeting I go to them with the list of issues we collected and come back with the report

748
03:40:37.520 --> 03:40:52.640
like you did. I would like to sponsor and then in the next meeting Mr. Stevens can go. Next meeting Miss Kane can go. Can I propose that I would be the second person to go and and talk to them about this list of grieviances?

749
03:40:52.640 --> 03:41:08.720
>> All right. We have a we have a motion to appoint a uh vice vice mayor Sud as a what would you call it? >> Representative like you did last time. Whatever technical name is >> envoy. Envoy.

750
03:41:08.720 --> 03:41:24.479
>> Envoy. That's a good word. Okay. >> Did you got a thesaurus out there, Paul? Awesome. Okay. >> So, I have a motion by Vice Mayor Sud appointing him as the first envoy potentially to PBSO to continue uh

751
03:41:24.479 --> 03:41:46.560
discussion of town concerns >> regarding the PBSO contract. >> Uh do I get a second for that motion? >> Hearing no second. Motion fails. >> If I may, we are Oh, sorry. >> Look into his eyes first and say he

752
03:41:46.560 --> 03:42:02.479
wants this. You've wanted this for a long time. I know you do. >> So, I'll extend a second on that motion. >> Thank you. >> And we'll see how the vote goes. >> I appreciate your trust. >> Motion stands with a second by Council Member Stevens. Paul, you made a

753
03:42:02.479 --> 03:42:17.920
comment. >> Uh, yeah. I was just going to say I thought we already did this at the last meeting. >> We we selected the mayor as the person. >> We will now open the floor to discussion. So, um, you started it. Would you like to continue that or

754
03:42:17.920 --> 03:42:35.760
that's where you're going to stand? >> Yeah, I got nothing. >> It's muted. >> Council member Kane, you had >> Oh, sorry. I I thought you were talking with somebody else, Lisa. I apologize. >> I'm sorry. >> Thank you. >> I have I have nothing to say. I'll just

755
03:42:35.760 --> 03:42:50.479
vote. >> Okay. I can tell you that it was a bit of a hailmary to to sit down and speak with uh the representatives of PBSO at the April 13th meeting. I think it was a courtesy

756
03:42:50.479 --> 03:43:08.560
extended by them uh just to keep the door of communication open. Uh they they feel very strongly in their position. I think that the people who have spoken to me, sitting up here and and contemplating this, listening to the

757
03:43:08.560 --> 03:43:24.560
legal arguments on both sides, this for me continues to be an unanswered question. We are not in any danger of uh being in breach of the contract for 2027. I think we have clarified why we're not in

758
03:43:24.560 --> 03:43:42.080
breach currently and I would like clarification um so that the town fully understands its legal position on this matter and I think we have gotten direction for that. So we have a motion. Is there any public comment?

759
03:43:42.080 --> 03:43:58.640
>> No public comment. So, a motion uh to repeat is by Vice Mayor Sue to uh appoint uh him as an envoy to continuing discussions with PBSO regarding the contract. Second by council member Stevens.

760
03:43:58.640 --> 03:44:13.279
All those in favor? >> I >> uh opposed. >> I >> I >> I motion fails two to three. So I look forward to hearing more on the AGO

761
03:44:13.279 --> 03:44:33.520
opinion if if we are so successful in that. So that takes us to item 10. >> Okay. I met uh I guess I'll take this. >> Yeah, we we actually brought this forward from the last one. So since you were not here to comment and yeah, speak

762
03:44:33.520 --> 03:44:48.080
closely to that microphone, please. >> Oh god, can I have a longer microphone or something for over here? Can I get an extender? >> Like um Okay. So, uh I don't know if anybody's aware, but under my poor leadership, uh several months ago, we

763
03:44:48.080 --> 03:45:03.760
each took pet projects and uh kind of are helping to see them through to try to, you know, assist staff and getting things done. So, um mine was the 20th anniversary celebration, which also happens to coincide with the 250th

764
03:45:03.760 --> 03:45:18.960
anniversary of the United States. So, with that in mind, I've had several organizational meetings with staff, um, of which I've reported out about some of them, but we had one yesterday. Yesterday, we had one again yesterday.

765
03:45:18.960 --> 03:45:34.720
Um, and we, uh, it's still loose, guys. It's still loose what our ideas are, but basically what we're talking about at this point is a kickoff event on the date we're looking

766
03:45:34.720 --> 03:45:51.439
at right now is uh Saturday June >> 27th >> 27th because we didn't want to interfere with Fourth of July celebrations even though

767
03:45:51.439 --> 03:46:07.120
we had wanted it to be on the 4th of July. you know, everybody has like the big Fourth of July thing and we don't interfere with people doing that and then we looked at with some other things that were going on in the community. But anyhow, we picked Saturday, June 27th as our 250th anniversary celebration, whatever. We've talked about two

768
03:46:07.120 --> 03:46:22.479
alternatives for that. One is to have it at the park. Another idea that came up sort of at the end of our meeting yesterday, and I know it hasn't been looked into yet, but another opportunity was to use the uh 4.23 two three acres that is dedicated to the town that um is

769
03:46:22.479 --> 03:46:38.880
part of the uh solar sport project and maybe do something there. The um event that we're looking at for this is something that will be relatively inexpensive um because what we would do is uh we're going to be sending a letter of interest

770
03:46:38.880 --> 03:46:54.800
to all of the agurism industries in the town and seeing how many of them would be interested in coming you know so kind of like a green market on steroids kind of a concept. So they would come and offer their stuff for sale, whatever. And it would be a way to showcase those

771
03:46:54.800 --> 03:47:11.520
those um businesses within our town. Um you know, and maybe they could, I don't know, if they do goat yoga, man, you can bring a couple of goats or something and have them in a pen for the kids to pet. I mean, I don't know. I mean, but a way for that to happens, but relatively inexpensive. It would just be like the

772
03:47:11.520 --> 03:47:27.760
flyers and things like that. We talked about having a commemorative coin at that one since it's the kickoff event. one of those co those little metal coins that's got like the 250 on one side and the 20th anniversary on the other side. Um we talked about making at that event available

773
03:47:27.760 --> 03:47:44.399
um sort of like a pass book. >> Um and that pass book would have all of the agurism in vendors that want to participate listed in there with like a QR code next to each one of them and and a and a box, right? And it would be kind

774
03:47:44.399 --> 03:47:59.520
of like a scavenger hunt. So between that event and the next event which is tenative tentatively scheduled for 118 for November 8th which is our veterans day slash uh excuse me founders

775
03:47:59.520 --> 03:48:14.880
day celebration and would be officially our 20th anniversary celebration as well. who whoever gets all their boxes checked or, you know, visits all the different vendors or the different places. If if we have a bunch of people that all fill out their box, then it

776
03:48:14.880 --> 03:48:31.040
goes into an entry and whatever there's some kind of a prize. We don't know what that prize is at this time. Um, what I have for you today, what I'm what we're asking for today is a budget of $20,000, although we're going to try not to spend that. Um, but we're asking for

777
03:48:31.040 --> 03:48:46.239
it as a source of reference for you. I have the budget from last year or the actual costs from last year's Veteransfounders Day celebration which was $8,700. So, um we think we think as a committee

778
03:48:46.239 --> 03:49:02.080
that that uh just for for the uh the record that was the estimated amount. What we actually spent was 6,623. >> Oh, perfect. Their budget was I thought I thought that was the actual amount. Thank you. Okay. So, they spent around $7,000,

779
03:49:02.080 --> 03:49:19.600
budgeted around $9,000. We're asking for 20 because this is a bigger event. There's mailers. There's the passbooks involved. We talked about the concept of maybe having some kind of a buy in to be in the passbook. Um, and also to be on a sign that we would have out front of town hall that would also have the QR

780
03:49:19.600 --> 03:49:34.640
codes like on a map of where the places are located and what they um have to offer. Something like that. Like the QR code would link you to their website. So, anyhow, we think that that's a reasonable budget to pull all this together, but um that is what I'm asking for tonight is that budget so that we

781
03:49:34.640 --> 03:49:51.120
can move forward with our planning or whatever. Did I miss the whole leave anything out? Okay. >> Any questions for us? >> The Oh, the members of the committee, the the town manager, uh Mr. Lowour,

782
03:49:51.120 --> 03:50:08.479
Karen, myself, and Gabriella. Those are those are the members of the committee, for lack of a better term, that are working on the event together. >> All right, Vice Mayor Sud, you had your light on first. >> Thank you for such a nice initiative. I I would say that uh honoring our

783
03:50:08.479 --> 03:50:24.399
veterans and celebrating our town absolutely matters. Um but honoring our veterans or our town is not measured by how much we spent. It's measured by how thoughtfully we do it. I

784
03:50:24.399 --> 03:50:41.120
am one of the private sector guys here in the town. As Madame Kane just mentioned, we should be involving private sector. I am against putting $20,000 worth of burden on the taxpayers when we don't have the money to fund our

785
03:50:41.120 --> 03:50:58.399
roads and our drainage. Last year we spent 7,000. I think we can do better this year. So, I'm not saying we don't do it. I'm saying let's do it responsibly. Let's partner with private sector and local businesses to sponsor the event.

786
03:50:58.399 --> 03:51:15.359
>> We we can't do that. >> Can I please uh finish my comments? You don't have your time. >> Keep a lean town contribution and even creating small revenue opportunities like you only mentioned. Let sponsors like us pick up some cost, food, events,

787
03:51:15.359 --> 03:51:32.160
etc., etc. So um I would suggest that our town's taxpayer burden should not exceed 5,000 max 7,000 maybe and we seek private partnerships. The town comes up with that package does some research and this

788
03:51:32.160 --> 03:51:47.600
is definitely the metro we should send to pack to come up with some creative ideas. Maybe we create merchandise t-shirts or other things you suggested that will offset some cost. So I would propose that staff talks to fact and

789
03:51:47.600 --> 03:52:05.680
comes back with a brief creative plan to reduce the tax burden on our taxpayers and instead use that 20 - 5 15,000 to fix our roads potholes and maybe pay PBS if we agree. Thank you.

790
03:52:05.680 --> 03:52:24.479
>> Thank you. >> Uh okay. >> Go ahead. Just I just I'm just throwing it out there. Joe's light was on already. It's fine. I'm just throwing it out there. My lights on. >> Oh, go. >> Oh, so no. I mean, listen. I mean, you know, I I like what Frank said earlier

791
03:52:24.479 --> 03:52:40.640
when he made his public comment. You know, you we have an open house and we give them enammans and bottles of water when, you know, clearly was advertised as donuts, whatever. I mean, so we're talking about splitting hairs here, but I mean, it's really the same kind of concept. Um what Valerie was talking

792
03:52:40.640 --> 03:52:56.080
about or the town manager was talking about spending um you know just under $7,000 on was one event. We're talking about two events. Um and I think it's it's very important for us to not only you know celebrate the 250th anniversary

793
03:52:56.080 --> 03:53:10.960
of our country but it's also very important for us to celebrate our 20 years of being a town. uh matter no matter how dysfunctional we may be at some points but I think it's important and I think that if there is a mechanism for quote unquote private sector or for

794
03:53:10.960 --> 03:53:28.640
other people to be involved fiscally um I think that uh the committee would work diligently toward that. I don't think they're out to spend the whole 20k. Um you know so that that's that's just my two cents. I I think that they're very

795
03:53:28.640 --> 03:53:43.040
mindful about um you know the position of everything and and where we're at and but I think that you know you know in order to pull it off you know we got to spend a little bit of money and I think you know of the little things that we do to get people

796
03:53:43.040 --> 03:54:01.359
together in this town um I think if if we do this and we put on a haphazard lackluster type of event um it's going to be worse. So I I'm I'm in support. Thank you. >> Okay. Council member Stevens.

797
03:54:01.359 --> 03:54:16.399
>> So this is my obviously my first go around on uh just organizing something of this magnitude. Um so Council Member Kane, just a couple questions because you're kind of the lead on this. So um and I don't mean this in I'm not attacking, I'm just asking. So, for

798
03:54:16.399 --> 03:54:32.479
understanding, uh, I did look at the, uh, Veterans Day, uh, kind of the list there, the budget, and two numbers jumped off the page at me, and, um, one of them was $3,000 for food. >> Okay. So, um, I kind of have an idea of

799
03:54:32.479 --> 03:54:49.199
what that Anyway, I have an idea where that money went as far as, you know, just providing food for the people in the town, and I think it's wonderful. However, and just question for later or something to discuss later. Um, have we have we ever thought about doing food trucks? Bring

800
03:54:49.199 --> 03:55:05.279
There's so many food trucks, ice cream, beer, whatever the case, and they pay us money. They pay us money. >> Well, that's that's actually one of the things that we um were considering for that first event that I was remember, we're talking about two events, right? So, one of the things we were

801
03:55:05.279 --> 03:55:20.479
considering at that first event, which was why we also considered the location change from the park to out in that like 4 acre field is we could then bring in food trucks, but that one we wouldn't be providing food for. The Veterans Day, we traditionally provide food for we traditionally provide a picnic for, but

802
03:55:20.479 --> 03:55:37.040
we could look at others. Now talking about the and I just want to just briefly use this moment just to point out that talking about private partnerships and things. We have to be very careful with how we do that because we no longer have a local lobbyist who

803
03:55:37.040 --> 03:55:54.000
can make requests for us and it is a violation of ethics for me to ask for a donation. it is a violation of ethics for anybody in the town, any of our staff to ask of it because obviously if those people then came up before us for a code case or a variance or something like that. So our hands are kind of tied

804
03:55:54.000 --> 03:56:09.120
as far as doing any kind of partnerships or anything. We did consider the possibility like I said of having some kind of a buy in right for your for you that and that would probably cost not something ridiculous but maybe like a $50 buy in. So that that would pay for

805
03:56:09.120 --> 03:56:25.359
the cost of that big sign to put out front. we've priced out the signs and things like that. Um, so we are looking at ways to try to to obiate the cost and like Mr. Coleman said, every single person on this committee is very cognizant of the financial situation.

806
03:56:25.359 --> 03:56:41.359
We're asking for a budget so that we could plan within it. I I can guarantee you we're going to come in under it because we always do. I just like I like the idea of people paying us money right >> to set up shop >> and it may like you said if we have food trucks at the first one then we may wind

807
03:56:41.359 --> 03:56:56.640
up making a profit off of that enough to really cut down what we have but we just want to move forward with planning knowing what our ceiling is and then being able to work within that. That's all we're really asking here. >> Okay. And then uh one more question and possibly an idea or I can pitch it when

808
03:56:56.640 --> 03:57:14.080
we uh discuss at the end of the meeting too. So, in the interest of time, there was one other item on there, and it actually had a gentleman's name, and I'm not going to read it out loud, but I did a little research on it, and it looked like it said drone services, something about a drone. Valerie.

809
03:57:14.080 --> 03:57:30.800
>> Uh not this last event, but the veterans uh for the year prior to that. Um we did use um one of our vendors uh services to um utilize a drone to capture the parade

810
03:57:30.800 --> 03:57:45.439
and the event. >> Okay. I'm just Okay. That's what I found out. I did have questions about that. Of course, I've never seen that footage. I don't know where to find that footage. If we spent it showed $500, >> I would Okay. I'd love to see the footage if we spent $500 on it. That's all I'm saying. I just didn't know it

811
03:57:45.439 --> 03:58:01.520
was out there. And then I have an idea. Is now the time to pitch it or you want to wait? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I've got my little idea book right here. >> All right. So, this is my idea. Not my idea. >> Okay. >> Um I'm getting a little dry up here. >> I'm writing down food trucks.

812
03:58:01.520 --> 03:58:18.319
>> Okay. So, there you go. Food trucks, ice cream, beer, get it all in there. That's important. Um, as many of you may or may not know, uh, during the, uh, campaign season and even after the election, um, I, uh, got a pretty good friendship with Bob

813
03:58:18.319 --> 03:58:33.920
Sullivan and, uh, we've been just kind of hanging out and just being neighbors. And a few nights ago, I was over at his house and and we were solving the world's problems. We almost got them all solved, by the way. Uh, and I pitched an idea to him. I just said, "Hey, listen. You know, I've only been here four

814
03:58:33.920 --> 03:58:50.080
years. I know my role. I I know my place." I said, "Uh, we have this big anniversary coming up. Has any of the town in your knowledge ever given out like a key to the city, just some sort of reward, a recognition?" And he thought about it for a minute. He said, "You know, Joe, I'm not sure, but yeah, let me think about that." So, a couple

815
03:58:50.080 --> 03:59:05.199
of days later, uh, Bob comes over to my garage and we're hanging out and he said, "You know that idea about key to the city that you talked about?" And I said, "Well, of course." You know, I don't know. I'm just throwing something out there, see if it sticks, but I think this is an opportunity to bring people in and

816
03:59:05.199 --> 03:59:22.640
recognize them for whatever we the committee decides. And he said, you know, Joe, there's a lot of families that have been here since the 60s,7s and and so forth. And they have they are an intricral part of what Lockxache Groves is and and and where it's come. He said,

817
03:59:22.640 --> 03:59:40.160
'What do you think about a Pioneer Heritage recognition, some sort of award for these families that have been with this community for I mean >> decades, >> decades. And I just I just kind of leaned back and looked at him and I said, "That's that's it, man. That's

818
03:59:40.160 --> 03:59:56.160
it." And I just I thought that was so beautiful the way he put that. And and uh so anyway, listen, that's not my idea. It started with my key to the city, but he took it to what I think is the next level. And um I just man throw it out there for council's consideration committee's consideration.

819
03:59:56.160 --> 04:00:12.640
>> Well, we'll cons I mean that could definitely be something that would be part of the first event. We do recognize like the veterans at the second event. We also recognize our founders usually at the second event. So and how we traditionally do and I'm not saying it's the only way to do it. How we traditionally do recognition is like

820
04:00:12.640 --> 04:00:28.640
plaques or proclamations or something when somebody we gave a plaque to Marge the night that she was here. Do you remember that that her last night? So, we do traditionally do something that's not a key to the city, but it is a recognition um yeah of some sort. But I like that idea and that and and our our

821
04:00:28.640 --> 04:00:44.479
founders and our heritage is really important. So, I think that would really fit in with like the 250th anniversary. Maybe we could fi find somebody that's lived here that long. >> Yeah, it does. I mean, it could be multiple multiple. Yeah. So, I just >> That's a great idea. Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you,

822
04:00:44.479 --> 04:01:00.800
>> Mr. Steven. I'll second that. >> Okay. So, uh, I'd like to comment, uh, when this was originally contemplated, it wasn't two separate days. And, uh, as we're counting down to the calendar of June 28th, we're we're about eight weeks

823
04:01:00.800 --> 04:01:16.960
out. >> Correct. >> And we're also looking at coming into budgeting and everything else. I am not on board with having anything associated with the with the actual Fourth of July celebrations. People are traveling. It's summertime for families. I I think we

824
04:01:16.960 --> 04:01:31.760
focus all of our efforts in November and I I think that the parade while it was an original concept, I don't think it's given >> said forget the parade. >> Well, it's in the item so it's here and

825
04:01:31.760 --> 04:01:49.279
and it should probably be 86. So, uh, I think that while that's that's a great thing to try to do, I just as the clock is ticking down, I'm really worried about it. And and I think if we're going to focus it, we try to put all our eggs in the November basket.

826
04:01:49.279 --> 04:02:05.520
>> Would you be opposed to maybe not having it a first event, but having just like make the pass available on that date to celebrate the anniversary so that people could play the scavenger hunt kind of game? That seems to be something that's kind of popular. poker runs and scavenger hunts and things like that.

827
04:02:05.520 --> 04:02:21.040
>> Yeah, I think individual things that are promoting, right? Because, you know, we've talked in staff extensively about the whole concerns about things happen last minute and people already made plans and I think this is another way to save the date. You can get it out there, >> play the game, save

828
04:02:21.040 --> 04:02:36.880
>> and and that sort of stuff is is not really expensive to implement, right? You're just talking some printing and and things like that. So, >> we we we had talked about Valerie was going to get some numbers and things like that. So $10,000. You think we can do do it for under 10 if we do it all

829
04:02:36.880 --> 04:02:53.680
into one event? >> I think we can make it happen. As you've said before, I'm very frugal. So we will make it work. >> So I amen. >> I see like tissue flowers in our future one night. >> Well, we may be having you make tissue flowers. I amend my request to $10,000

830
04:02:53.680 --> 04:03:10.960
and we'll we're meeting in >> we're meeting on uh the 4th of May to have our next planning meeting. So, we will uh take this to heart >> and I just want to make sure that there's a consensus that basically we will have one event. The goal will be to push out and promote the event um at

831
04:03:10.960 --> 04:03:26.560
least starting June June 27th and put those books out there with the signage. Um consensus is to eliminate the parade aspect. >> Well, hold on. We'll get there. >> Okay. Um and then we will find the drone

832
04:03:26.560 --> 04:03:42.560
footage. make sure that uh you get that. No, for sure. I'm just checking on my notes. Um and then we will discuss further um some of the suggestions that come came up today. >> Okay. But I want to elaborate a little bit on the elimination of the parade. Our idea to eliminate

833
04:03:42.560 --> 04:04:00.080
>> one quick question. Uh the has a November date been contemplated? >> Yes. The November date I gave it to you. >> November 8th was 118. >> However, that is subject to availability. Well, >> not if we do it over at the other place. We need to look at our options there.

834
04:04:00.080 --> 04:04:15.439
It's not 118 subject to park availability and or doing it at the other location. And I just want to talk a little bit about our decision that we made the other day at which was yesterday after this was printed, which is why it's still in there. Um, so we

835
04:04:15.439 --> 04:04:30.880
had a long discussion about the amount of staff that's required to pull off road closures and everything for basically a parade from a place where just the parade gathers are to the park that there's it's not really a parade. I

836
04:04:30.880 --> 04:04:47.199
mean, there's nobody along the route. I've been in it several years. There's nobody along the route. There's nobody out there cheering and everything. It's just basically a lot of staff overtime hours to close roads and and inconvenience people for them the

837
04:04:47.199 --> 04:05:04.479
parading. But what we did talk about but there is a very loyal following of people who like to decorate their golf carts or their tractors or whatever and come up. So, we did talk about the possibility of adding to that event a maybe a contest for

838
04:05:04.479 --> 04:05:21.920
the best decorated or the, you know, family and golf cart or something along those lines. >> Kind of like a car show. >> Kind of like a car show, right? And people could just come in their vehicles, but not to actually have the staff labor intensive coordinating with PBSO and all of those kind of things

839
04:05:21.920 --> 04:05:39.040
event that um tied up our streets. So that's why we talked about that. So anyhow, go on with your public comment. >> Okay. Uh Vice Mayor Sud, you had no public. >> Uh Paul, Council Member Coleman. >> Yeah. Do we have a we need a motion before public comment? Yeah.

840
04:05:39.040 --> 04:05:56.239
>> No, this is not this is not an item that has any sort of resolution associated with it. So >> this is a consensus. >> Yeah, I agree. I think we all had that conversation after >> after the the uh parade. So, it was just not as it

841
04:05:56.239 --> 04:06:11.199
was the first couple of times. It was it felt it falls during hunting season and all kinds of stuff and people are out of town. So, unfortunately, I agree about the parade. >> The parade versus the the date. I'm

842
04:06:11.199 --> 04:06:28.399
sorry. Did I conflate you agree with not having a first event? >> Well, I mean, yeah, I kind of get what you're saying. Well, I was talking about the parade. I mean, I guess I get along with with a single event, but yeah, the parade is is kind of a it's gone by the wayside because, you know, nobody shows

843
04:06:28.399 --> 04:06:44.640
up, so what's the point? >> Okay. Uh before we take public comment, I need a motion to extend the meeting. >> Make a motion to extend the meeting. >> Second. >> Motion to extend. >> Second. >> Uh sorry, Paul. Uh we had uh council member Stevens leaning toward the microphone faster.

844
04:06:44.640 --> 04:07:03.199
>> Quick job. Now we have a motion to extend by council member Kane, seconded by council member Stevens. All those in favor? I >> Ied. >> Thank you. Opposed hearing none. Motion passes 5-0. Public comment.

845
04:07:03.199 --> 04:07:20.000
>> Madame Mayor, I have two uh comment cards. The first is Robert Shore. >> Thank you. >> You're to let me go first. >> That's because you run that card up fast. Robert Shore 1742E road. Thank you,

846
04:07:20.000 --> 04:07:38.560
Madame Mayor. >> Vice Mayor, >> did you grease that thing before everybody got it? >> Yeah, the uh the budget, you know, to throw 20 grand in there and say, I think we can do it for this when you don't even know what you're doing. I mean, I'm

847
04:07:38.560 --> 04:07:54.239
glad to hear you're reducing it to 10. That's a little bit closer. Last year they threw this founders day thing and they had bounce houses and food and just tons threw tons of money at it. It was just like an open book and it still only

848
04:07:54.239 --> 04:08:11.199
cost less than seven grand which surprised the heck out of me in the end because it looked like a lot more going into it and uh it it wasn't really that big of a turnout. Um as far as the parade goes, the parade isn't the town doesn't need to do

849
04:08:11.199 --> 04:08:27.120
anything for the parade. you know, they choose to bring in overtime and do that. I mean, we blocked off F- Road because we had it at town hall. You have it at the park and do it just like the other parades. We never had town staff involvement in

850
04:08:27.120 --> 04:08:43.600
the first four or five parades. We didn't have staff. We had three or four people in public works. Now all of a sudden, it's a huge staff cost because you got a huge staff, but everybody wants that overtime. So, they're all hanging out getting overtime during the

851
04:08:43.600 --> 04:09:00.319
Founders Day in the parade. So, we're going to do the parade whether you support it or not. The veterans are going to get together and we're going to go drive to wherever the event is. We're not asking the town's permission to support that. And the other thing is

852
04:09:00.319 --> 04:09:15.840
at our 4 acres, that's a commercial HOA. You need their permission to do anything in that area. where Aldi's is and the orthopedic and all that. So, you got to have their permission. You can't use

853
04:09:15.840 --> 04:09:30.960
their parking spaces. So, there's a lot of rules from that HOA over in that area >> that I wasn't aware of in the beginning, but I got made aware of later on. So,

854
04:09:30.960 --> 04:09:48.000
you know, the park public space. So, but uh yeah, the parade unfortunately I wasn't here last year when they had it. I was out of town, but I'll try to make sure I'm here this year and and we'll have some kind of parade because that's what small towns do. You have parades.

855
04:09:48.000 --> 04:10:03.680
>> Mr. Shore, I I assume you're a veteran, if I may ask this question. >> Yes, sir. I >> thank you for your service. I have a question for you. Would you and you know veterans in this town be offended if we tell them we have no money to do our basic stuff if we only have maybe $5,000

856
04:10:03.680 --> 04:10:19.920
or six and not 10 and not 20? And would you understand the situation? this town is in >> the Veterans Parade doesn't take that money. It's the event, it's the food, it's the bounce houses, it's the founders day stuff. Up to that point, the veteran spray didn't take any money.

857
04:10:19.920 --> 04:10:36.399
The medals that we gave the veterans, they were paid for by the Gross Community Foundation. They donated the medals. So, it was never a burden on the town financially, the parade itself, you know, but then, like I say, it it turned into a a free-for-all, I guess,

858
04:10:36.399 --> 04:10:54.319
for staff if staff cost is a big uh a big part of that budget, >> you know. It's because it it last year it grew with Founders Day. That was that was a big hit. I still can't believe it's only less than seven grand because we're spending money like it was water.

859
04:10:54.319 --> 04:11:19.199
But, thank you. >> Thank you, sir. Thank you. And who else do we have? >> Um Frank Shyola. >> Frank Shyola. Um who is on this committee? >> I did say >> Yeah. You said names. I don't know names

860
04:11:19.199 --> 04:11:34.640
of you because I myself is the the council member. We kind of took a project of >> myself, the town manager, >> one of the town administrative workers, Gabrielle Crossdale,

861
04:11:34.640 --> 04:11:53.600
>> and Karen who's the public works director, and Craig who's the I'm sorry, Craig. Well, Craig is the public works director and Karen. >> Got it. Got it. Do you know who everybody is? >> Yeah. Okay. So basically it's all town

862
04:11:53.600 --> 04:12:10.880
people. It's all town employees, right? Um has anybody asked any of the residents if they wanted to participate in this? And because you know, first of all, you said that you have to be very careful about if you get sponsors and and all that, but if you have residents

863
04:12:10.880 --> 04:12:27.040
that aren't um that aren't elected official or don't work for the town, then they can go out and get sponsors for this thing. So, you know, and I think that there are probably a few residents here that would say, "Hey, I'd like to actually do this." >> That's in the discussions for the

864
04:12:27.040 --> 04:12:43.680
future. >> So, well, you know, for the future, but it's you have something coming up in six weeks and and all that. So, it's a good thing you can. >> Any other public comments? >> No, ma'am. >> Okay. Uh, Vice Mayor Sud. Yes.

865
04:12:43.680 --> 04:13:00.080
>> Dear residents, I don't understand what this council doesn't get it. We are not going to increase any taxes. Last year we had a huge tax increase. I'm amazed that people are sitting here throwing numbers 10 20 whatever whatever. I don't

866
04:13:00.080 --> 04:13:17.120
understand. We have a situation here. We don't have the money to do potholes. We don't have the money to do this that and we are sitting here behaving everything is we have a veteran who just said they understand they don't need this. We can do this with private sector. Let

867
04:13:17.120 --> 04:13:32.720
residents do this. These highly paid staff, how much time are we going to waste their time? I I I shouldn't say this, but I've been told our people, council people are going there every few days or every other day doing this and that. I mean, we have so many priorities

868
04:13:32.720 --> 04:13:49.279
and we are doing this. I don't get it. I'm I'm in the support of zero dollars. Let somebody resident take a committee and let them come up with money. And we have veterans are very resourceful, very proud. They will figure it out. Thank you. >> Thank you.

869
04:13:49.279 --> 04:14:07.279
>> Any other comments? >> So, I guess we're going to have to do some kind of a vote between $10,000 and $0. >> Council member Coleman, you're unmuted. Did you have a comment? >> Yeah. You know, I I I listen, I've been

870
04:14:07.279 --> 04:14:22.000
in the in the in the parade a couple times, and I think it's as as important as it is to recognize our veterans. Um, you know, I'm a veteran. My dad was a veteran. My uncles are veterans. I mean, I, you know, three people lived in this town. I mean, I I get it. I'm I'm all

871
04:14:22.000 --> 04:14:37.359
about that. But I I I I don't think, you know, throwing a sheetcake from Publix on a picnic table and saying, "Thanks for your service is the way to do it either." >> You know, the bottom line, you want to have a parade, we'll have a parade. I'm just telling you, Robert, you weren't here. Like you said, you were out of

872
04:14:37.359 --> 04:14:53.760
town. Wish you could have been here. Um, you know, but there was nobody lying in the road this time, unfortunately. I mean, I it was it was kind of sad really, but I think if we want to keep having these events and we want to bring the community together more, we need to have events to bring community together.

873
04:14:53.760 --> 04:15:09.680
That's kind of how it happens. It just doesn't happen organically anymore. So, you have to have these events to draw the people in whether we, you know, maybe we didn't pump it up enough, you know, moving into the into the parade and into the to the picnic, but I thought there was plenty of people

874
04:15:09.680 --> 04:15:25.359
there. I mean, there's every bench was full um there at the at the pavilion. So, you know, I you know, I I I don't think that the owners should fall on the veterans to pay for their own parade or to pay for their own party. You know,

875
04:15:25.359 --> 04:15:40.239
okay, maybe we don't need bounce houses for the kids to keep them busy or whatever. But I, you know, it was a nice event. Not everyone ended at the park either. One of them ended at town hall or maybe that was Memorial Day. I can't remember. was they had the fire truck out there with a flag flying. I remember

876
04:15:40.239 --> 04:15:56.640
that one. And we had Little Caesar's Pizza. I I remember exactly what you're talking about. But I you know I you know so we we cut it in half, got rid of one event because it's really close. So I don't think they're going to get toward the 10,000. But I think they need to have a budget to be able to spend so

877
04:15:56.640 --> 04:16:12.319
they can you know put this on. And if we say hey listen we're going to do a parade but we don't need you know the entire 30 person staff here to work it. then that's what the direction will be. Um I think that's you know not a problem. Um you know but that's here and

878
04:16:12.319 --> 04:16:29.760
there. So that's my two cents. >> Okay. Thank you. And any other comments, questions, concerns? >> So I guess I need to make a motion right at this point. >> No, I I think we just need to agree on a direction. So, I'd like some consensus

879
04:16:29.760 --> 04:16:46.159
to have a maximum budget of $10,000 for the Veterans Founders Day uh 20th anniversary celebration to and I never meant to allude that we were taking anybody's right away to have a parade. You certainly have a right to

880
04:16:46.159 --> 04:17:00.479
pray, but the parade will not be sponsored by the town um in any way or supported by the town in any way. Um, and I'll bring back more details of

881
04:17:00.479 --> 04:17:16.000
what we're going to do as after this next meeting and when we know what the number is, which is really what kind of where we were at at the last meeting is we need a number to be able to to plan a little further. >> Okay. Uh, you know, this was something

882
04:17:16.000 --> 04:17:32.319
that when these assignments were handed out, I know in the past we had worked together as a council on some of these blue ribbon committee ideas to do this. Uh, you know, it's it's I think Vice Mayor Sud, I think it's important that

883
04:17:32.319 --> 04:17:48.800
there is still something moving forward for the town to rally around. Uh I I disagreed on the expense level and um it's it's being curtailed and the previous one came in at 6,000 and while I still think that's quite a bit of

884
04:17:48.800 --> 04:18:03.600
money um when perhaps people can volunteer their time and things like that and the opportunities to to volunteer and participate in the town could be better utilized. So, um I I would tentatively,

885
04:18:03.600 --> 04:18:20.399
you know, approve a number, but I would like to see more details coming forward to council to consider what what would be in uh entailed in all of this. And you know, remember the 10,000 would also

886
04:18:20.399 --> 04:18:36.399
be promoting some of the upcoming events as well, not just on the day of the event, correct? >> Potentially November 8th, 2026. So, comment. >> Madame Mayor, Madame Kane, I never said don't do events. I want to do events. I

887
04:18:36.399 --> 04:18:52.399
am with uh Mr. Stevens. We should do it. I'm just saying change our thinking. This is not the taxpayers money that we are going to throw around and the valuable salaried, highly top salaried people unlimited time discussing a hobby

888
04:18:52.399 --> 04:19:08.319
project. This is not our taxpayers on taxpayers money. I'm saying engage residents, make a committee, have residents come forward, let them lead it, and let them come up with a creative plan. I'm I'm saying no money, let

889
04:19:08.319 --> 04:19:22.880
residents do it. It's not Let's not the distract our highly paid people. Let's have some residents. Let give them an opportunity and then we reconvene. Thank you. >> Thank you. If I could for perspective, um not that it would be this grand a

890
04:19:22.880 --> 04:19:40.479
scale, but um how do you think that the parade happens in in Wellington every December, the holiday parade? >> I'm not Wellington, Mr. >> I know. I know that, but I'm just putting it in perspective. >> People have to plan it. It's not it's not it's not citizens planning these

891
04:19:40.479 --> 04:19:55.520
things. I mean, I'm sure they have committees that maybe citizens can get involved in. And I'm not saying citizens shouldn't be involved. My point is is that at any level, you know, and again we we don't have the the the

892
04:19:55.520 --> 04:20:13.279
tool to go out and solicit money anymore. So Frank had a good suggestion. Maybe, you know, we have those citizens on there and maybe that's a way that we could do that, but we aren't going to know until we allow this committee to move forward and come with a better plan. We've already 86 to1 in June.

893
04:20:13.279 --> 04:20:30.080
We're just planning on November. And you know what? To Robert's point, you know, and everybody sit down. I'm gonna agree with Robert. The parade's important, you know, >> he's still in the room. >> I I see him. I see him.

894
04:20:30.080 --> 04:20:46.159
>> The parade is important, you know, and I guess, you know, if we do another one and nobody shows up to along the roadside and it's just, you know, the veterans out there and they're happy to be in the parade regardless, then, you know, maybe it's something we do keep doing just for that reason. And like I

895
04:20:46.159 --> 04:21:02.880
said, maybe we curtail the amount of staff that's needed. Maybe, you know, maybe because it's a Veterans Day parade, regardless of whatever is going on, PBSO will still get involved, you know. I mean, so and you know, Fire Rescue, I'm sure, will be involved as they always are. So, I I think I I say

896
04:21:02.880 --> 04:21:19.040
we we hit the 10 the 10K, not to exceed. I don't think they're going to get near it. Um, and we go with details as we move forward. I I I you know, I think we've done good by cutting it, but you know, again, this is a way for our community to get together. I can tell

897
04:21:19.040 --> 04:21:35.760
you, regardless of campaign trail or any of that, the most common thing I hear from people out there when I talk to folks when they start talking about their their covert pipes that they're not happy with or the fact that their roads still dirt or the potholes that are going to cost way more than $5,000

898
04:21:35.760 --> 04:21:51.520
to fix, things like that. You know, when I talk to these people, you know what they say? We don't get together as a community. Even the most far out there folks that we know say the same thing. The most grounded people in the community say the same thing. What are we doing to bring

899
04:21:51.520 --> 04:22:08.080
the community together, right? What what is there out there? So, you know, I I support it. >> Thank you. >> With the with the parade. >> Okay. Yes. Thank you. This We're already at 10:15. Manish can you

900
04:22:08.080 --> 04:22:25.520
>> just one second Mr. Coleman again I'm saying just because we haven't done it doesn't mean it is not possible. I'm not saying I agree let's get together community. I'm just saying it is not on the taxpayer dollars and this new council new leadership better sets in

901
04:22:25.520 --> 04:22:40.880
principle a direction. This is a message to the upcoming budget. This is a message we are going to engage. Let the town manager or let have some residents come forward. Give them a time and let them come up with a creative way. Let the private sector residents figure it

902
04:22:40.880 --> 04:22:56.000
out if they can't. >> What part of we cannot do that? Don't you understand, sir? >> We cannot solicit citizens to do that. And you just cut 90k. Hold on. And you just cut 90k off the budget at the last meeting. So there you go.

903
04:22:56.000 --> 04:23:11.600
>> You cut 90k off the budget last meeting. Not 100, 90. So there you go. >> Okay. I think it's a good >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So you're a yes. I'm a yes, Lisa. So I I I do align a bit with Manish on

904
04:23:11.600 --> 04:23:28.640
the is there a possibility where you could uh rally some residents? >> Go to we're going to work on it. We're going to make every effort to not spend the $10,000 >> and have a single staff um liaison to work with so that we're not burdening staff time any further.

905
04:23:28.640 --> 04:23:44.640
>> I'm happy to work with just Val. >> I would direct that because she's got nothing on her plate. That's right. So, so that that's where I would lean on my direction. I'm okay with 10. I'd like to see it come on significantly under that. >> We will. >> Uh so, and we have lots of people with

906
04:23:44.640 --> 04:24:00.880
things like drones, >> one uh and uh again, volunteers that >> we're going to work on >> could could do these things together. >> Council member Stevens, >> past experience, volunteers don't usually take it home. It really does need to be organized, but we will try to

907
04:24:00.880 --> 04:24:16.800
use as much volunteer help as we can. And Joe, are you on that? Yes or no? We have >> talking about a party on November 8th. Is that what I'm hearing? >> Yeah. >> And there's a chance that Robert Shore can sing happy birthday to me on that day. And I'm all in. Let's go. >> Okay. All right. >> So, we have a consensus of four,

908
04:24:16.800 --> 04:24:31.279
Valerie, to move forward with that budgeting in mind. >> Thank you. >> Miss, are you are you weighing in on that as well? >> The record, I am not I'm not approving 10K. Okay. Right. >> So, we we have consensus to move forward

909
04:24:31.279 --> 04:24:48.880
on that with some suggestions. >> Uh so, again, we're approaching now 10:30 and we're looking at discussion item 11 for probably the 11th time. So, uh I know that uh

910
04:24:48.880 --> 04:25:08.279
Mr. Curts, you've been sort of the honcho on this, so I'm going to pass it to you. Okay. You need help with us? You trying to pull the presentation? >> I was trying to get up there.

911
04:25:10.080 --> 04:25:25.199
>> Up on the screen for everybody. >> Talk closer to your microphone. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> On the screen. >> A quick presentation. >> Yes. >> Really, really quick. Um and uh a representative of sheltering palms is is

912
04:25:25.199 --> 04:25:44.000
here to answer your questions. Um this is uh the property that we are talking about. It does not have an address per se. Um it is adjacent to 1300 uh D. Um at

913
04:25:44.000 --> 04:25:58.640
one point in time the ownership on these properties was the uh was the same. It went through a couple of ownership iterations. That background has g been given to you. The current offer from Sheltering Palms

914
04:25:58.640 --> 04:26:14.560
is to pay the town $250,000 um to release a conservation easement. The conservation easement, I don't know if you can make it out, but it's uh in this area that I'm pointing

915
04:26:14.560 --> 04:26:30.159
to right now on the screen. It was two acres um and uh uh on what is the eastern portion of the property. Um the property as you can see has been

916
04:26:30.159 --> 04:26:48.239
totally denuted at this point in time. Um and uh I've given you all the background in the um memorandum. You've talked about this before at least once. I will take questions at this point in time. Um, and

917
04:26:48.239 --> 04:27:02.080
as I said, Mr. Flame is here as a representative of Sheltering Palms. Um, they would like direction on how to proceed, whether there is interest um in

918
04:27:02.080 --> 04:27:19.120
releasing the easement. Um, and $250,000 available at this point in time. We would draw up the paperwork if uh uh if there was consensus to move forward. Um I'll leave it to you,

919
04:27:19.120 --> 04:27:34.960
>> council member. >> Okay, Paul, go ahead. You want to go? >> Go ahead. Anita, no. I'm just letting it be known because I I don't have a hand. >> Okay. Thank you. >> We can't see you anymore. >> You going first. You're like a giant field right now, just so you know. Um,

920
04:27:34.960 --> 04:27:51.279
so what I had we have we have probably looked at this 11 times actually. I'm I'm pretty sure. Um, so the the information that we wanted before we made a decision, um, and I'll share it for the benefit of the new council

921
04:27:51.279 --> 04:28:08.960
members is that there were 15 of these and that we as a town didn't know about them, lost track of them, didn't know they existed for many, many years. Uh, what we instructed staff to do was to look into them and see what

922
04:28:08.960 --> 04:28:30.319
the condition of all of them was. and about half of them are desecrated like this one is. That's what the the current condition of these easements is. So, um, with that in mind, uh, I think that we

923
04:28:30.319 --> 04:28:46.720
should go ahead and accept this money, but only if we put this money into the mitigation fund that we might use to buy some other land for easement, for conservation throughout the town or for water retention or for some of the other

924
04:28:46.720 --> 04:29:01.760
things that we desperately need in the town. Um, but I also think that we should continue investigating the remaining easements and come to some kind of resolution with them, whether it's to ensure that they're preserved

925
04:29:01.760 --> 04:29:18.399
or what that might be. Um, but to come to kind of some kind of resolution on those because I can only presume that they will come up when those people try to sell their properties later, too. So, let's try to kind of wrap up the whole thing is what I'm saying. Let's let's take the whole thing to fruition. So,

926
04:29:18.399 --> 04:29:35.920
that's kind of where I'm at on this issue. >> Okay. Council member Coleman. >> Yeah. You know, this this two acres that was just plopped down on a piece of property by the county way back in the day. You know, as Anita used a perfect

927
04:29:35.920 --> 04:29:53.199
word, it's desecrated. Decimated. You know, decimated, right? It's it's dirt scrub. Now, if it's anything, there's nothing to conserve there anymore. And at this point, you know, 250 in the tree mitigation fund that we can use to buy

928
04:29:53.199 --> 04:30:10.239
trees, buy park ground, buy, you know, all these things that people have these grand ideas to do or, you know, to educate on Arbor Day or things like this, you know, that's that's what the mitigation fund's there for. And I think this would go a long way to to help

929
04:30:10.239 --> 04:30:26.399
extend that and let let us move forward with that, you know, aspect of our job as well. Um, you know, I I think this is we've we've kind of beat this up, beat it up and beat it up and I think Anita's right. You know, we need to move forward with those ones that are selected that

930
04:30:26.399 --> 04:30:42.159
haven't been decimated and figuring out what to do going there. It could be a half acre on this property, could be an acre on that property. You know, we need to have a plan. we don't have a plan for this. So, I think at at this point in time, you know, with this particular one

931
04:30:42.159 --> 04:30:58.159
that's totally gone, um, you know, that that they're willing to, you know, negotiate with us and and we're we're here at 250. I say I say we take it and put it in that tree mitigation fund. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, Vice Mayor >> Suds

932
04:30:58.159 --> 04:31:14.159
up for public. >> No, we're doing them now. >> Okay. residents, this is not a just a financial decision. It's about protecting our conservation principles. I do not support releasing two acre

933
04:31:14.159 --> 04:31:30.800
conservation simply in exchange for a payment. Once we set that precedent, we risk turning conservation into something can be bought out. I don't buy into this argument. Oh, we let the tree dies. Well, I'm sorry. You should have known. You should have known. Tomorrow, can I

934
04:31:30.800 --> 04:31:46.080
pretend? I did not know. Sorry. too late and I I'm open to a structured alternative. I agree. Give them a clear direction. Allow the conservation area to be relocated. Please relocate this 2acre within the property in the middle

935
04:31:46.080 --> 04:32:01.920
of the property consistent with zoning intent. For example, centrally within the configuration while preserving the same or greater conservation value. If such accommodation is considered, it would also include mitigation fees and

936
04:32:01.920 --> 04:32:17.520
condition. So I would sponsor a motion that says deny request to eliminate or buy out any required conservation at sheltering farms and instant allow consideration of relocating the conservation area. Their problem is in the front. Move it somewhere in the

937
04:32:17.520 --> 04:32:33.760
middle touching all the five acre corners if it has to be divided into four five acre lots. Provided there is no reduction in total conservation acreage, it remains consistent with the town's comprehensive plan is permanently protected and includes appropriate

938
04:32:33.760 --> 04:32:51.760
mitigation fees and conditions. So move the two acre in the middle and also pay town appropriate mitigation fees and condition and staff is directed to return to council with a compliant proposal. That's my proposal. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, Council Member Stevens.

939
04:32:51.760 --> 04:33:07.439
So, in the interest of time, I I did have quite a bit um written down on this and uh right on my real estate background uh to to come to my answer, but uh I'm watching the clock. I know we need to move some things, but I'll just simply state that um I'm not in favor of

940
04:33:07.439 --> 04:33:25.760
accepting the $250,000. We we have sworn to protect our charter and uh we only have uh a few of these parcels left in town. And uh so I would vote against accepting the 250,000. >> Uh I would also um piggyback on what

941
04:33:25.760 --> 04:33:42.240
council member Kaine was saying. Yes, we asked uh the staff to bring us back the condition of all these different existing conservation easements. But we also asked for a policy and and the reason this has continued to move down the path is there is no comprehensive

942
04:33:42.240 --> 04:33:56.000
policy that has been developed around these existing easements. And while this property owner is willing to come forward with a lot of cash, there's no guarantee that these other parcels that have these desecrated and

943
04:33:56.000 --> 04:34:12.959
denuted uh conservation easements are going to be able to do any such thing. So I I I don't agree with council member Suds. Uh I don't even know if we can legally move the conservation ement to another location. Uh and and then what

944
04:34:12.959 --> 04:34:29.600
if somebody comes along and wants to put a house in the middle of that 20 acres? I I don't think you can even begin to contemplate where that might might go. Uh so I I am in the ballpark of just have them restore the vegetation. there's an

945
04:34:29.600 --> 04:34:45.199
estimate to restore the vegetation provided in in some of these previous documents that we have and that that becomes the policy moving forward and not setting a precedence that conservation ements are for sale and uh that that's where I go. So a show of

946
04:34:45.199 --> 04:35:02.480
hands I believe we had three that did not want to move forward with a sale um or purchase of of their conservation easement. Um, Anita, you're on the they can buy it out. >> I'm very mixed. I'm just I'm very mixed.

947
04:35:02.480 --> 04:35:17.520
As you know, I was like the first one that said, "Wait a minute. We got to we got to find out about all of these and everything." And you and you're right. Although we have a partial picture, we don't have a clear picture. And we certainly don't have a policy. And a policy is really important because we have to make sure that everybody's

948
04:35:17.520 --> 04:35:33.840
treated fairly and the same. And in the meantime, I'm trying to treat this person fairly who is trying to move forward. Now, I do I've gotten a lot of information in the in the interim about, you know, >> he's talking to your microphone. >> Sorry. One of the things getting tired.

949
04:35:33.840 --> 04:35:51.199
One of the things that that is an option and and I and it may be an option for this person. I know it's an option with South Florida Water is you can actually buy mitigation in another county. I mean, you know, someplace else like far far away for,

950
04:35:51.199 --> 04:36:07.680
you know, x amount of dollars. And so that's why when I found that out, I'm like, okay. So, they let them buy mitigation offsite, like even at a different place. That's why I thought if we were putting the that's why it came to kind of a compromise in my mind that

951
04:36:07.680 --> 04:36:25.279
if we allowed that mitigation money to go to where we could use it someplace that we really need it for some kind of conservation that that would be a good kind of compromise and also allow these people who are kind of in a bad place to move forward. Um, but I get what you're

952
04:36:25.279 --> 04:36:42.080
saying too about setting precedents and you know I I I think they all have to be kind of looked at differently because I think there's different situations and I also think we have to do something to make sure that the ones that haven't been denuted don't get denuted, you know? I mean, and I and I don't know

953
04:36:42.080 --> 04:36:57.920
what we can do legally to do that. So, I got a lot, you know. I'm just trying to like you said, this has been back 11 times. I'm trying to get this one settled in and all it's trying to come up with a >> compromise. All it's come back with is more money. >> That's there's never been a policy

954
04:36:57.920 --> 04:37:13.920
proposed. The the the closest thing we got was well here's a list of the properties and and these are the ones that we've identified. Correct. >> And the condition that they're in. Uh Paul, do you have a comment on this? >> Yeah, I mean this is the same conversation we've had all every time. >> Yes. >> Right. The same conversation. And I just

955
04:37:13.920 --> 04:37:28.719
point again, there's there are a couple properties that one might say are unbuildable because they're so li low lowlying. I mean like entire properties, right, that are total cypress heads that

956
04:37:28.719 --> 04:37:45.119
this, you know, the argument to take the money is we could actually create a real conservation easement slash park with a boardwalk or something, you know, that anybody from the town could go and could whatever.

957
04:37:45.119 --> 04:38:02.000
You're talking about the southeast corner of a property that's two acres that that really does no good. Um, you know, so they go >> nobody can go on. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Nobody can go on to you might you'll pass by part of it, the front of

958
04:38:02.000 --> 04:38:19.119
it if you're riding down that horse trail if that is actually where we have an easement. Um, you know, so you're you're you're looking at this 2acre block up on this 20 acre pro parcel where even if they go and replant,

959
04:38:19.119 --> 04:38:36.240
right? So, say you tell them they got to replant and say, "Okay, well, listen, we'll we'll work with you. You can put the we you can stretch, you know, make it narrower and stretched across the front of the property since it really there's nothing there, but you got to replant two acres worth of stuff." And they go in and they replant

960
04:38:36.240 --> 04:38:53.039
cocoa plum and sable palm and slash pines and oaks and all natural stuff, right? All natural stuff. All within what we all sit and talk about what we like to see around the town. And you still just got this basically, you know,

961
04:38:53.039 --> 04:39:09.439
just a a buffer in front of this property that really nobody gets to enjoy. So, in turn, instead of going through all of that and like Anita said, being fair to this person who's kind of gotten this on the back end of of this whole thing, um, you know, that money

962
04:39:09.439 --> 04:39:25.840
goes into that fund and we could systematic, we could look at some of these properties and say, "Hey, listen, we can turn that, we could turn this this property here, it's all Cypress head. We could put, you know, a boardwalk through there that people could, you know, walk down. you know,

963
04:39:25.840 --> 04:39:42.320
they walk down, you walk down the shoulder of the road, you step out onto this, you know, you know, boardwalk and you can meander through, you know, an acre and a half, two acre of, you know, uh, cypress head that's full of natural vegetation, etc.

964
04:39:42.320 --> 04:39:58.638
Okay. So, I've heard this argument before and and while that's a lovely thought, I have never had anybody come up to me in this town and said, you know, we need a a park to go to. I mean, there's some smaller properties, but

965
04:39:58.638 --> 04:40:13.440
most of them are located closer to where the actual park is. So, I think the the idea that we're going to take this money and turn it into a park when we have potholes and things to fix, I I just

966
04:40:13.440 --> 04:40:29.040
think that's kind of an illogical argument. >> You were sitting up there with me when we voted to take that money and put it toward uh natural stuff and education and things like that, not not fill potholes with it. >> We all We all voted on that.

967
04:40:29.040 --> 04:40:44.480
>> I agree, Paul. But that was a long laundry list of ways that money could be spent and arguably some of that was in there. But uh >> right >> conversely I've had people tell me that that that we should have more parks and we should have this and we should have this. I've had people say why can't we

968
04:40:44.480 --> 04:41:00.000
plant oak trees down Okachobee Boulevard? And I said well who's going to maintain them and things like that. You know it's like so there are people that want it just like there are people that are for and against other things we have. I'm just saying that that's just one avenue. I'm not saying we have to do

969
04:41:00.000 --> 04:41:14.878
that with it. I'm just saying that's an avenue that could, you know, kind of >> do both and and the the linear park concept, I think, is is more important at this stage than a single location somewhere in the town. So, and and

970
04:41:14.878 --> 04:41:31.200
tonight, are we are we going to land on something tonight with this? Because we we we've got to come to a decision even without a policy and and we still have to talk about public input. I think the beginning of the policy is whether or not we would consider

971
04:41:31.200 --> 04:41:46.000
um >> buyout >> money for um these things and if the policy is no it doesn't matter how much money you want to give us what we are seeking is replanting >> restoration

972
04:41:46.000 --> 04:42:02.638
>> that becomes the that becomes the policy. Council member Kaine's point though is can we legally on the ones that have been damaged that this person came forward voluntarily given their circumstances but are is the town going to become more proactive in these

973
04:42:02.638 --> 04:42:18.480
existing ones and uh perhaps Karen Gardner Young can weigh in on this what what are our our options and capacities >> with respect to the the existing ones we've got a baseline now that has been

974
04:42:18.480 --> 04:42:34.638
established as to what the condition of of most of them are. And I think it my recollection is that it's uh three or or four of them um out of the 13 or so that um have been severely denuted and and

975
04:42:34.638 --> 04:42:51.200
most of them are in uh relatively good shape. Um so uh as a part of the the policy that would move forward is develop an inspection program. We do have the right to go onto the properties

976
04:42:51.200 --> 04:43:09.520
and inspect them. Um and they do have an obligation to maintain the owners of the property have an obligation to to maintain them. Um the beginning of that would be a dialogue. Um uh and

977
04:43:09.520 --> 04:43:25.280
ultimately um it's not really a code enforcement issue because our code doesn't speak to it. Um it's more along the lines of a contractual matter. Um but if we get this direction, maybe we would uh

978
04:43:25.280 --> 04:43:51.840
develop code to go along with the contractual enforcement. >> Okay. So to that end, uh public input. >> Yes, Madame Mayor, I have two comment cards. Um, Mr. Shore, Robert Shore, 1742E Road, Mayor, Vice

979
04:43:51.840 --> 04:44:07.760
Mayor, Council. Um, interesting situation because you've got something that is nothing that at one point was something and uh now they want to donate to a fund

980
04:44:07.760 --> 04:44:25.680
to wipe it out. Um, my comment was, you know, is it possible to uh solidify an easement on that canal bank as part of this? because I know these canals have gotten wider and the banks have gotten wider. I didn't know where the property line fell

981
04:44:25.680 --> 04:44:42.798
on that canal bank. So, that was something that I wanted just wanted to mention in the process of negotiating with this land owner. Um, I read everything, the appraisal, you know, the real estate. There's a realer trying to sell it. Says it's, you know, ready to

982
04:44:42.798 --> 04:45:00.000
be sold, just looking to to address this. And uh it's you know if you took two acres and stretched it out along the canal and you create a nice buffer to that property you know that would add to the benefit of that trail there and the people

983
04:45:00.000 --> 04:45:15.360
driving down the road they're looking at a nice buffer versus something that potentially could just be wide open cleared. You know that would be a benefit and he would still keep two acres on that property just stretch it out on the east side.

984
04:45:15.360 --> 04:45:31.760
Um, and that could serve, you know, some aesthetic public benefit, but you know, you don't have any public access. But as far as looking at all these as a whole and developing a policy, I think that's that's important.

985
04:45:31.760 --> 04:45:49.520
But, uh, I'm just, as you describe this code and maintenance and we can go on the property. I'm just looking at more dollars going out in staff costs to do this whole program where some of these are at the point of no return. And

986
04:45:49.520 --> 04:46:06.560
you've got a a tree mitigation program where we've got the option of purchasing or donating to a fund, relocating a tree or saving the tree. But there's options in that program. And I don't know why you

987
04:46:06.560 --> 04:46:21.840
couldn't put a program together with these properties. And at least, you know, hopefully the owners are aware of them now, but I'll bet you a lot of them weren't, you know, and as I read the history of this property, going through several owners and corporations.

988
04:46:21.840 --> 04:46:37.520
I honestly don't think anybody realized it. And I don't know why back then the county even created this cuz there's a damn nice wetland on that property that probably isn't even being conserved. You know, it's like kind of kind of

989
04:46:37.520 --> 04:46:52.480
interesting how they came across this one particular two acres. But anyhow, that's all I wanted to say was try to solidify a canal ease meant if you were still negotiating with this property or if you could stretch out the two acres to give some kind of buffer. Thank you.

990
04:46:52.480 --> 04:47:14.718
>> Okay. Thank you. Madame Mayor, the next card we have is Cassie Suchi. Cassie Suchi, I know we're getting late. Um, I'm glad that some people still remember why we became a town protecting our rural character, open spaces, and

991
04:47:14.718 --> 04:47:32.160
what our charter talks about preserving things in our town. It brings me to another thing and another thing conservation easements can do and it was topic that came up in the uh meetings that we had over the southern boulevard quarter wildlife quarters. It's an open

992
04:47:32.160 --> 04:47:48.560
space for wildlife quarters. I'm talking about open spaces, non was it non-permeable surfaces. And to anybody to think delusional that we're going to just take this money, sell this open space, use it for trees to buy a park in a in a community where all our homes are

993
04:47:48.560 --> 04:48:04.160
on parks. I don't see that ever happening. So, we need to go back to why we became a town and it's a conservation easement and we need to value it as such. >> Thank you. All right.

994
04:48:04.160 --> 04:48:20.718
>> This over Amy, right? >> No more public comment. She ran to the restroom. So, >> no more public comment. >> Correct. So, uh I would ask by I guess a a show of hands uh the direction since again this is not a resolution that we

995
04:48:20.718 --> 04:48:36.878
can necessarily vote on. um to at least direct this particular land owner what they're going to do and to, you know, please, you know, set set some policy in place moving forward so that it's not

996
04:48:36.878 --> 04:48:53.520
just going to be the highest bidder that comes in that can buy off a a conservation easement no matter what the condition. It sounds to me like there is uh at least a threeperson consensus um that the policy and the direction is

997
04:48:53.520 --> 04:49:08.320
restoration. >> I would agree >> and and Mr. Flame is >> patient >> watching the >> leaning against the back wall keeping the wall up. Thank you for keeping the wall up. >> And I think he hears the same thing that

998
04:49:08.320 --> 04:49:25.360
I'm hearing. Uh but there's no reason to make another offer. Um work on the restoration plan and please submit it to us and you know that restoration plan can um be approved and

999
04:49:25.360 --> 04:49:42.718
you can do the uh the plantings and move forward. town is using this grant to, you know, work on similar things with buffering and stuff from commercial level with latoral plantings and stuff like that and and I look forward to seeing it restored and um hopefully

1000
04:49:42.718 --> 04:49:58.560
canal bank access will will still be there. So, not obviously to the private property. All right, that brings us to discussion item 12 and it's 10:46. motion to extend but only for 15 more

1001
04:49:58.560 --> 04:50:15.360
minutes and then I'm going home. >> So we have a motion to extend for 15 minutes and then >> we're losing council member Kaine seconded by Coleman. All those in favor? >> I. >> Paul, did you weigh in? >> Yeah, I I thought I seconded. Oh, I

1002
04:50:15.360 --> 04:50:30.320
sorry >> you did. We voted. Thank you. Motion passes 5-0. >> Uh can I jump in on this one quickly? So, uh, the the question here was, you know, how do

1003
04:50:30.320 --> 04:50:46.480
we minimize staff impact and time? I know agenda reviews have been something that were attempted in the past. Uh, in particular, this one was uh suggested by the acting town manager to be virtual.

1004
04:50:46.480 --> 04:51:02.560
uh our current policy is that we need a a simple majority I think to uh be legally a quorum. So we would have to wave that that to do this and it was proposed that this would be broadcast to

1005
04:51:02.560 --> 04:51:18.878
the public and it would help to uh get questions answered and minimize impact to staff time in preparation for meetings. And uh I will kick it back to the acting manager then and any question

1006
04:51:18.878 --> 04:51:35.280
take any questions. So >> I mean as you said you know in a nutshell um you know there have typically the process has been individual one-on-one meetings with council. Um I think many of the folks um in the public have stated that um

1007
04:51:35.280 --> 04:51:51.520
there's issues and concerns with transparency and that consistent information is given to each of the council members. Um so the thought process behind this was to implement an agenda review workshop meeting that would be publicly noticed where all

1008
04:51:51.520 --> 04:52:06.798
council members can attend via Zoom, receive all the same information at the same time. the public will be able to listen but not weigh in. This is strictly a meeting to get your questions answered. Um, and also provide an

1009
04:52:06.798 --> 04:52:22.000
opportunity for staff that perhaps if there's a different perspective or additional information that we need to gather that we have additional time to do that. Um furthermore, I think we've kind of noticed sometimes a trend where um a lot of adjustments are made to the

1010
04:52:22.000 --> 04:52:38.320
agendas which can create confusion during the meetings. Um not just for council, the staff and the public. Um so this is an opportunity for for the council to be able to adjust items on the agenda before we finalize it um that

1011
04:52:38.320 --> 04:52:53.280
Friday. >> Okay. Council member Kane, you had your light on. >> Yeah. Um, I just want to point out that having it on a Wednesday or Thursday morning in the morning pretty much prohibits Mr. Coleman or I being able to attend because we both have day jobs. >> Thank you.

1012
04:52:53.280 --> 04:53:10.400
>> So, uh, I would, you know, I mean, if that's the intention, okay. Um, but I would reserve the right for us to have some other opportunity to ask our questions without being accused of praying on staff time. Um, so either it

1013
04:53:10.400 --> 04:53:26.240
has to be at, you know, six o'clock at night, 5:'lock at night where we have our regular meetings or I mean I cannot guarantee that I there are occasionally times I can break away but there's no way that I can promise sitting here or make a commitment sitting here to be

1014
04:53:26.240 --> 04:53:41.840
able to break away from my business on a w every on on any Wednesday or Thursday morning before noon. I just can't do that. you know, I do my animals starting at 5:00 am, arrive at work between 6:30 and 7 and work straight through and then

1015
04:53:41.840 --> 04:53:57.200
go take care of my mother after that. So, um, you know, I just I I'm not available during the day and I don't believe Mr. Coleman is either. So, that's all I have to say. >> All right, C. Uh, Vice Mayor Sud, >> I I think I agree with you for the first time.

1016
04:53:57.200 --> 04:54:12.320
>> How somebody write that down. >> I I think I have a very like you, I have a very demanding job. very very demanding. I cannot be available during business hours either. But I also would like to say that um you know we as

1017
04:54:12.320 --> 04:54:28.638
council people come to you the town manager from time to time. We come to you for agenda for discussion in a structured fashion. But I also would say that if some town manager if some of the council member come to you every day

1018
04:54:28.638 --> 04:54:44.958
every day keep coming. I think other town council member need to know who else is coming for what reason? I mean, I understand council member go to you once before the meeting, but if somebody's keep coming, keep going, that's not that's I think everybody

1019
04:54:44.958 --> 04:55:00.000
should be notified if somebody's visiting you too often for reasons that are not regular business around the town council. Anyway, so I do agree. I think your time is very precious and so is your senior management. I'm open for

1020
04:55:00.000 --> 04:55:17.360
after hours. uh I encourage I cannot do business hours after hours or uh some mechanism to send you in a virtual fashion but through a zoom or something but I agree I I I'm not available during business hours. >> All right, council member Coleman

1021
04:55:17.360 --> 04:55:34.160
>> uh ditto Wednesday Thursday morning bad time. Any morning is bad. I'm I'm like Anita. I'm at work by 6:30 and it's it's pedal to the metal you know uh for the rest of the day. So, >> thanks, Council Member Stevens.

1022
04:55:34.160 --> 04:55:50.560
>> Yeah, I'm I'm flexible. Um, as far as, you know, when we do the the times and the days, and I probably live the closest to town hall than than the rest of us up here. So, um, I'm up for whatever you guys decide. I'll back you. I'll make it work on my end no matter what. >> Okay.

1023
04:55:50.560 --> 04:56:06.718
>> Uh, yes, I'm I'm an evening person as well. Mornings are tough. Uh so uh I I think if council's comfortable with the idea, I know the the public that I've discussed it with, they like the idea of the uh the virtual access to

1024
04:56:06.718 --> 04:56:22.878
the discussion and of course it would be a recorded meeting as well for posterity. So uh direction would be to approve this. Yes. As long as it's an evening event. >> Yeah. May after five is what works.

1025
04:56:22.878 --> 04:56:38.160
>> Okay. So, just to clarify, there was no intention to isolate anyone from this process. Um, the reason why we came up with the morning time is because naturally we're already here two nights out of the month um with the current schedule and just trying to, you know,

1026
04:56:38.160 --> 04:56:54.638
be mindful of the current staff and and what they currently have going on after hours. Also, uh we were trying to be mindful of the fact that if the draft agenda is posted on a Tuesday, giving you all enough time to review the packets, which you know, historically

1027
04:56:54.638 --> 04:57:11.040
have sometimes been quite lengthy. Um and so we wanted to make sure that we weren't rushing you uh in terms of reviewing that documentation. Furthermore, if we extend that meeting to a Thursday evening, that is a lot of

1028
04:57:11.040 --> 04:57:27.760
pressure and a lot of time. um for it's limited time for staff to turn around and be able to produce those packets. Um and again, we want to make sure that you have those packets before you're going into the weekend if you want to mark up your notes or what have you. So, I don't

1029
04:57:27.760 --> 04:57:43.440
know if you guys would be, you know, okay with a Wednesday night meeting um and basically only having about a day to to review the information. So, I I just want to make sure that we're all on the same page. >> Yeah. I think I did six works for me,

1030
04:57:43.440 --> 04:57:58.240
>> right? And if this if this isn't, you know, kosher with everybody, this is it's just a suggestion. Uh, council vice mayor. >> Yeah. 6 p.m. onwards. And if somebody cannot make it, they can still probably do one-on-one, but yeah, 6 p.m. should be all right >> on a Wednesday. >> Yes.

1031
04:57:58.240 --> 04:58:13.760
>> Okay. That that would give us 24 hours, 24 hours plus depending on when that became available. And so the public access portion will be you know we can give them access to the zoom so that way they can again hear it and we can also

1032
04:58:13.760 --> 04:58:30.080
link it to the YouTube but it will not be accessible in the chambers. >> Got it. >> As we will also be on zoom as well then our >> you know if it doesn't work we tried right. So >> okay so we will bring back um that resolution and the council rules of procedure.

1033
04:58:30.080 --> 04:58:46.560
>> Okay. >> All right mayor. I just want to put on the record I did have a comment card but Mr. Shore >> has >> I believe he's left the building. Okay. >> All right. Elvis has left the building. Okay. So,

1034
04:58:46.560 --> 04:59:00.400
>> yes. >> Excused. I have I believe we're through all the business of the evening and you have to go spend the night with my mother. >> Yes. Yes. Thank you. Um hopefully this zooms through. >> No zoom pun intended.

1035
04:59:00.400 --> 04:59:16.560
>> Yeah. just comments and and direction. Yes, thank you. >> Sorry again for the long meeting. >> Okay, so that brings us to staff comments. Um acting town managers, very quickly, um staff and I are working on

1036
04:59:16.560 --> 04:59:31.280
putting together what I like to call snapshots. Um so one of them being the code enforcement cases that are kind of open and as they move forward in kind of an an open or pending process um we will be posting that online with monthly

1037
04:59:31.280 --> 04:59:47.520
updates um so that way we have that available to the public um and furthermore I have met with kesh of ours and other folks who have worked um on various grants and we are putting together a snapshot of that information so that way we can post that online um

1038
04:59:47.520 --> 05:00:02.718
along with updates Okay. >> Furthermore, um Kenthia White is officially has been appointed um as the acting town clerk. So, if folks have public comments that they want to send via email, please send them to Kenthia

1039
05:00:02.718 --> 05:00:19.760
um just so that way we can make sure that emails are not missed. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh to piggyback on your statement, you had provided uh the council this evening with a timeline for finance. uh I guess milestones. Do you have

1040
05:00:19.760 --> 05:00:36.320
anything you want to comment on that? >> Uh right now we are currently working on the audit uh which is due in June. Our goal is to hurry up and wrap that up uh midmay. We are pushing very hard for that. Um so that's kind of currently in

1041
05:00:36.320 --> 05:00:52.400
the pipeline. Um once we finish with the audit then we will begin the budgeting process. >> Okay. >> Quickly thereafter. >> Yeah. So, with the the in-house finance person, I I was fortunate enough to meet with her. Uh, one of my questions was

1042
05:00:52.400 --> 05:01:09.680
what were the uh reasons the audit for 2025 has been held up and she explained to me that there were some documentation that had been required from the auditor that had not been produced. Do you know the status on that? >> Yes. So they um have been continuously

1043
05:01:09.680 --> 05:01:26.958
working with projected point who are our contractors um with regards to finance services. There have uh has been some delays with obtaining some of that information. She has been working with them diligently and again putting that pressure to get that information turned around quickly. They met again today to

1044
05:01:26.958 --> 05:01:43.920
finalize some of those um you know go over some of those last hanging items. Um so again we're pushing forward with that. >> Super. Thanks. You're welcome. >> For for the benefit of the new council members, and I will pass out what I brought with me copies-wise, receive and

1045
05:01:43.920 --> 05:02:02.560
file uh a email from March 10th stating that the audit had been delayed due to the federal government shutdown. Take one and pass along if if staff would provide that to the not present council members. Um, that's just something that

1046
05:02:02.560 --> 05:02:19.440
had previously been stated and in fact that is not the case where the audit is concerned. So, >> anything else, Valerie? >> No, mayor. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right, that takes me to town attorney Jeff Curts. Um very

1047
05:02:19.440 --> 05:02:35.520
quickly, one item we had been discussing and trying to schedule uh executive shade session with respect to the 440B and 556 um B lawsuits that are out there. Uh the tenative date that

1048
05:02:35.520 --> 05:02:53.920
had been provided to you all was May 5th at 5:00 pm. Unfortunately um our defense council uh insurance defense council um ended up with a conflict and they're not available on that date. Um and so we're now looking

1049
05:02:53.920 --> 05:03:09.760
at June 2nd at 5:00. um unless you want to do it on a uh special meeting just for that singular purpose. Um uh May 19th was contemplated before your

1050
05:03:09.760 --> 05:03:27.120
next um regular meeting workshop. Uh but the mayor is potentially unavailable even by Zoom at that time. So this is the kind of session that everybody needs to be there. Um and I know for Mr. Coleman getting here at 5:00 is is

1051
05:03:27.120 --> 05:03:43.360
difficult and I'm hoping that June 2nd would work uh for his calendar, but uh we'll be in touch um with you uh to confirm that and check your calendars. Um but May 5th is not at five o'clock

1052
05:03:43.360 --> 05:03:59.680
anymore. >> Great. Anything else? >> That's it. >> All right. Thank you, acting town clerk. >> Madam Mayor, no. I just appreciate all your support and all your help and making sure that I do my best to keep you all together. I'm still working for

1053
05:03:59.680 --> 05:04:15.120
Jeff over here and so I'm basically doing a dual capacity right now, but if you guys need anything, you know where to find me. >> We appreciate it. Appreciate your patience as well. Thank you. Uh do we have a motion to extend past 11? >> Motion to extend. >> All right. >> Second.

1054
05:04:15.120 --> 05:04:30.798
>> I have a motion to extend by Council Member Coleman, second by Council Member Stevens. All those in favor? I >> I >> Motion passes 40. Uh, Community Standards Director Karen Gardner Young. >> Thank you. >> Is it on? >> Yeah, I guess it is. Oh, there we go.

1055
05:04:30.798 --> 05:04:46.480
Um, good evening everybody. Um, I wanted to bring forward just it's because you're organizational. We just started with the new council. I wanted to make sure we're utilizing our committees the most efficient and effective way we can. Generally it is uh council gives

1056
05:04:46.480 --> 05:05:03.520
directive to the committees for them to investigate certain issues that you feel are important. We did have a a list in the past. I think because of the new composition, the new circumstances I would really like us to reconsider what items your committee should consider. Um

1057
05:05:03.520 --> 05:05:19.360
they are recommending bodies. I'm not saying necessarily that they'll change from what was in the past. For example, your uh ULDC is looking at line of sight and nuisance abatement. Your planning board is looking at equestrian estates, whether that's a viable zoning district

1058
05:05:19.360 --> 05:05:35.280
you want to bring in with a new composition, a new direction. I felt it was appropriate for us to bring this forward. Uh we'll go through a memo, we'll send you out a memo of kind of where we are, what we are, and we can kind of get feedback from you to make sure those committees are supporting the council on the issues and the ideas that

1059
05:05:35.280 --> 05:05:52.080
you want to bring forward. >> That was it. >> All right. Thank you. Hey. >> All right. Public works director. >> How we doing? I mean, good morning. >> Almost. >> Yeah, we're almost there. Um, have you seen um her homes has started putting in

1060
05:05:52.080 --> 05:06:08.160
collecting canal. They've put in the six court pipe. Tomorrow they will be doing the collecting canal. Uh road will be shut down for a couple of days while they get that one done. They are moving forward. They're getting ready to process putting the big pipes in. once we get into that that that road will be

1061
05:06:08.160 --> 05:06:26.000
shut down for a good two or three weeks. So they um move forward with all the swale work on a road. We have to tidy up that over there as well. Um we have started one crew on North Road. Their sole job right now for our public works

1062
05:06:26.000 --> 05:06:42.320
staff asphalt until we can't asphalt no more all the potholes. So they've started on North at A- Road and today they put out I think about six tons of asphalt shoveling it out to fill in every single hole they can find. So they're not going to stop until they get

1063
05:06:42.320 --> 05:06:59.520
all the way to E. Hopefully that can quiet up the staff, I mean the residents, and we can bring the level down of the potholes in North Road and hopefully that'll help us out as best as we can with that road falling apart as it is right now.

1064
05:06:59.520 --> 05:07:16.400
>> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Um, speaking on specifically the A-RO collecting canal, I know that Her Homes was doing the compactions and everything else. Um, >> compactions. >> I think that was when they were brought forward to, you know, step in on some of the additional like the shoulder work and

1065
05:07:16.400 --> 05:07:30.320
>> the shouldering work was for all the swell work. >> Yeah, it was I think compaction was discussed at that meeting as well. Um, no, am I conflating that? Okay. And then I I had asked you earlier in an email

1066
05:07:30.320 --> 05:07:48.240
about paving dates. So do we have some projections on that? >> Not yet. The contract is >> Well, >> yeah, we're got contract is with Jeff right now. >> Okay. Okay. >> Once he's finished reviewing it and gets it back, we can get it to them and then they can give us dates on when they can

1067
05:07:48.240 --> 05:08:04.638
give us the change orders. So, we can get them to you for approval or then we can get them to start on the smaller roads first and then to jump on a road. >> Okay. So, all the staging is going to all happen simultaneously. Yep. >> Cuz people are trying to get them to run up one shot, >> right? Super.

1068
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>> Yes, ma'am. >> All right. Anything else? >> That's it. >> That's it. All right. Council member comments. Joe, you're up >> uh very quickly. Um Valerie, uh please extend um my gratitude to the staff, man. You guys are just absolutely

1069
05:08:20.480 --> 05:08:36.878
getting after it and uh just busy as all get out and I really really appreciate what what you and the entire team are doing. So, please pass that along, Mr. Curts. Um hopefully that we can dive into some of those code cases sooner than later. I know there was three to four to five of them that we kind of touched on and man, I'm looking forward

1070
05:08:36.878 --> 05:08:51.680
to to getting those maybe in front of council here in the near future. and and um for us to take a hard look at and see what we have. And finally, I just want to say I actually I mean I I believe in this town council. I really really do. And I thought we had some just absolute

1071
05:08:51.680 --> 05:09:06.638
absolutely brilliant moments tonight and and I'm excited for the next meeting and the meeting after that. So, thank you guys so much for all your hard work. >> Thank you. Uh Council Member Kaine asked to be excused about 10 minutes ago, so she uh she will not be commenting this

1072
05:09:06.638 --> 05:09:21.760
evening. That brings us to Mr. Coleman. Good evening. Um yeah, lively discussion but good discussion. Um just kind of pair what Joe was saying also. um during uh I believe it was yeah during one of

1073
05:09:21.760 --> 05:09:38.798
the the uh southern corridor uh workshops um brought to our attention um about the overuse of Tangerine by certain vendor on Lockahhatche Avenue which I believe

1074
05:09:38.798 --> 05:09:54.160
site plan um dictates that they're supposed to exit via Lockahhatchee to southern not lock to Tangerine. Um, I did speak to uh Mr. Curts about what the legality is of shutting that road off,

1075
05:09:54.160 --> 05:10:11.120
the access to Tangerine. Um, and I Jeff, correct me if I'm wrong and saying this, but I believe the consensus was that we have the ability to do that. So, I propose that we give direction to staff to move forward with um coming up with

1076
05:10:11.120 --> 05:10:28.080
some language. uh maybe Craig to come up with some a plan on what that looks like, whether it's a burm across the road, whether it's uh deadend signs um and to send a notice to uh the the neighbor the those folks on Tangerine

1077
05:10:28.080 --> 05:10:44.718
and East Citrus right there that are affected the most by it and see if it is something that they would like to do because currently right now the amount of traffic that's coming out of there and that bleeds off of Southern to just you know for whatever going down Tangerine is is impacting

1078
05:10:44.718 --> 05:11:02.480
those residents severely. >> Okay, Paul, I I apologize. I haven't been down there to look at that site um to see how they structured their their exit there. That obviously the site plan did require that it was only a

1079
05:11:02.480 --> 05:11:18.400
southbound exit out of that driveway. So, I see Mr. Low is pulling the microphone close to him. So I I'll pass it over to him unless you have something to say. >> No, no, that's as far as I understood the site plan had them exiting via

1080
05:11:18.400 --> 05:11:34.560
southern locky to southern and I know I've seen their vehicle >> southbound. Yes. >> Yeah. Southbound Lockxahhatchee to southern um >> correct >> you know and I I know I've seen their vehicle coming down Tangerine to D road. >> Okay.

1081
05:11:34.560 --> 05:11:49.760
>> Personally, >> Mr. Lowour. >> Yes. myself and the uh town engineer Gary did meet out there with them over their site plan as directed by council at uh previous meetings. Um the only thing that we could actually have them do and that we did make them do is a

1082
05:11:49.760 --> 05:12:07.360
right turn only out of their parking lot. Had them put signs up, put markers on the ground saying it was a right turn only. Obviously, not everyone's going to follow the rules. That was the best that we could come up with for that area that we could get them to put in on that site

1083
05:12:07.360 --> 05:12:23.440
plan. And that's that's the only thing we could do. If we come up and say we want to shut the road down, we can clearly sign it off and road close it. >> Okay. >> And that's up to at the direction of you guys. >> Okay. Uh Jeff, can you weigh on that? Legally,

1084
05:12:23.440 --> 05:12:40.000
>> we we have the ability to close the um to close the road. I think the logistics of that, the logistics of all that and you know the plan to to potentially do that should be presented to you all. Um

1085
05:12:40.000 --> 05:12:57.440
I don't think our uh Gary has had our engineer has had a chance to really take a look at that issue as to how the the closure would work. It's absolutely possible and you have the authority um because it's a town road. Um but uh it's

1086
05:12:57.440 --> 05:13:12.798
probably a good idea and this is another thing that we don't have a process for. Um but it's probably a good idea to to flesh out a process and give notification to the affected residents before you finalize any such decision.

1087
05:13:12.798 --> 05:13:29.040
>> Okay. And obviously this is an ongoing problem with some of these commercial things that get approved. We have I don't know how many times we re revisited Solar Sport and the Publix and all of that traffic melee that that has resulted in you know while they agreed

1088
05:13:29.040 --> 05:13:45.280
to stripe and put some little temporary things in place I I don't know how often those things get knocked over and replaced often uh they didn't come up with anything permanent and and I think that as we consider this this we we try

1089
05:13:45.280 --> 05:14:02.240
to think of the consequences of when these sites get approved and they throw up their hands and go, "Oh, yeah. We just can't stop them from turning left." So, neither here nor there. All predates us. So, >> across the road. >> Anything else? >> Yeah. Anything else, Paul? >> That's it.

1090
05:14:02.240 --> 05:14:17.840
>> Okay, Vice Mayor, >> thank you. Hello, residents. Thank you for staying at 11:11 p.m., that that tells you something. Thank you. What did we accomplish today? I always tell you I'm going to do this every meeting as

1091
05:14:17.840 --> 05:14:33.680
long as I'm here. What did we accomplish and where we are heading? This is for you town madam town manager and town attorney and others. First, we restored trust in the town hall. We took an important step by resetting the leadership that is accountable to the

1092
05:14:33.680 --> 05:14:49.520
residents. Second, we are fixing the basics. Thank you, Madame Mayor, uh Mr. Stevens and Mr. Coleman. We u this is what resident experience every day. North road port potholes are being

1093
05:14:49.520 --> 05:15:04.718
addressed and while we are mapping out funding I know people want new road at north on the north road. I promise you as much as I can as a council member you will not suffer in the meantime. You will not

1094
05:15:04.718 --> 05:15:22.080
suffer. town hall. This new council is committed to consistent ongoing maintenance moving forward over the next 90 days. I hope this is for Mr. Lower. I hope your goal will be zero potholes, proper mowing and cleaner canals,

1095
05:15:22.080 --> 05:15:38.480
improved drainage, less puddles, and a stronger public safety posture. Madame Mayor, I'm not giving up on PBS. So, you will see me bothering you again in the next meeting. >> We'll see. >> These are not the promises. These are the actions already underway and I want to especially thank our acting town

1096
05:15:38.480 --> 05:15:55.520
manager uh Miss Oaks and our head of public works Mr. Craig Lower for stepping up. Thank you helping deliver these results. Third, we protect our rural and act character. Uh our comprehensive plan is the law in both word and spirit.

1097
05:15:55.520 --> 05:16:13.280
Uh my two cents to those people who are fighting us commercials who have serious violations, it's time to make a deal. It's if you litigate or if you hope this council is going to be lenient or going to change, it will only cost you more. So, please come. We'll make a deal and

1098
05:16:13.280 --> 05:16:29.680
let's make it happen. You have already seen that uh Miss Gardner Young, thank you so much. She has updated our town website, our grant with Florida Commerce. They have sent a letter clarifying the scope of the grant, ensuring clear boundaries on the

1099
05:16:29.680 --> 05:16:45.120
Southern Boulevard corridor project. So all the confusion etc has been addressed. Over the coming months we will advance solutions like roundabouts on Okchobee Boulevard. That's my personal next big thing. I'm going to talk about roundabouts on Okchobee

1100
05:16:45.120 --> 05:17:00.798
Boulevard so that you know those developers or lobbyists on the county who think there is going to be a four-lane highway they should stop dreaming that aspect very quickly. Next fiscal discipline. This is also coming.

1101
05:17:00.798 --> 05:17:17.280
As you know, I was head of uh chairman of FACK before I came to the council. We are going to run on cutting waste. I know Mr. Stevens, I know Madame Mayor. You you you are going to run on cutting waste and that's exactly we're going to do. We are going to prioritize essential. We are going to make sure

1102
05:17:17.280 --> 05:17:32.878
every dollar works for our residents and we are going to soon ensure full financial transparency and public data. All the audit, all the financial data, people's salary, everything will be made public on our website. I will close with this with the

1103
05:17:32.878 --> 05:17:48.160
support of our colleagues. Thank you Mr. Steven, man town manager today and Mr. Coleman and Miss Kane. We are here to we are not here to maintain the status quo. I think all of us including the colleagues that disagree. I think we are

1104
05:17:48.160 --> 05:18:03.520
here to improve it for our residents. You are going to see very positive visible change in this town. how it operates, how it looks, and how it serves you. Please feel free to reach out to all of us through town, email or phone. Thank you. We are here to serve you. Good night.

1105
05:18:03.520 --> 05:18:19.920
>> Thank you. Uh so obviously with the new council, we all came in gang busters and we all would like everything done yesterday and unfortunately that is not how government works. Uh but uh some of the things that

1106
05:18:19.920 --> 05:18:36.320
I have been carrying now for the last couple meetings, I I would like to to get some of these stated at least tonight. Uh Karen, to your statement, as far as direction from the committee, uh new council members are aware that the

1107
05:18:36.320 --> 05:18:53.360
council had begun work on updating the strategic plan. Uh I would classify the current strategic plan as as a bit aspirational. I' I'd like to see us design a strategic plan that's more actionable. Uh to that end, I would propose that we send out to the

1108
05:18:53.360 --> 05:19:10.240
committees, not necessarily planning and zoning because this isn't their balwick, but have uh the committees work on from their individual perspectives a definition of rural as it fits Lockxahhatche Gross. Um everybody can look up rural and dictionary. Um there's

1109
05:19:10.240 --> 05:19:24.480
obviously some government definitions of rural, but we've been a town now almost 20 years. I think we can decide what rural means. Uh and then come up with three to four pillars to support that

1110
05:19:24.480 --> 05:19:40.878
goal of of maintaining a quality of life that is uh our rural lifestyle and protection of the resident's property values. So that's been something that was also discussed in the past. and then perhaps come up with one or two concepts

1111
05:19:40.878 --> 05:19:55.840
to promote and encourage that statement as well above. So if if council thinks that that is a direction that they would like to consider committees moving, I think we can probably bring that back at the May 5th meeting. Uh hopefully I have

1112
05:19:55.840 --> 05:20:13.200
that day right. Uh so one of the other things serving as mayor uh you know I did this once before during COVID which was great fun and uh it's been my position that the mayor is a just another council member and does

1113
05:20:13.200 --> 05:20:30.560
not work autonomously separate from the council and as we have uh seen our intergovernmental relations lobbyist leave locally uh I think that I would like council uh approval and possibly some direction

1114
05:20:30.560 --> 05:20:47.120
on the mayor serving as possibly that role in some kind of intergovernmental communications and outreach with county commission, county agencies, uh state agencies where appropriate. Um to that end, I provided the report from

1115
05:20:47.120 --> 05:21:03.120
tonight's uh or the meeting on Monday from the PBSO tonight. So I would follow a similar vein as far as that goes and just looking for council approval or blessing to to take that step. Uh I would like to also bring back at May 5th

1116
05:21:03.120 --> 05:21:20.000
council policy. We've seen the council policy evolve over years. I think most of us may have seen this was I think the original policy back in 2013. It's literally two pages three pages. So and now we we have much

1117
05:21:20.000 --> 05:21:37.440
larger policy. So maybe council needs to review some of those previously uh created documents. Uh Mr. Lowour, I I know you kind of stepped into this role recently and uh previous councils have tasked our public

1118
05:21:37.440 --> 05:21:52.560
works with with projects that were probably a little inspirational versus reality. I would love to see you bring back

1119
05:21:52.560 --> 05:22:09.360
maybe three to five projects and by by projects ongoing maintenance things that you think your crews can do and do fantastically well. So, and then council considers, you

1120
05:22:09.360 --> 05:22:25.120
know, larger scale projects like what you've dealt with with a road and collecting uh more on a scale of of uh contracting out because we've seen quite a few failures just because of the timeline and the ability to to get it

1121
05:22:25.120 --> 05:22:43.040
all done and juggling real needs, people crashing over the canal banks, you know, water overflowing, all that good stuff. So if council agrees with that direction, I I would like to see our public works really focused on the basics and and doing them really

1122
05:22:43.040 --> 05:22:58.240
particularly well. >> The general mainten >> Well, probably right. But what is general maintenance? Is is that >> over pipes, canal bank, >> canal bank restoration, guard rail replacement, mowing? I don't know that

1123
05:22:58.240 --> 05:23:14.798
>> I know how to maintain an arena. So that's that's the extent of it. So, uh I think we also have some some pressures coming to bear. Um I'm aware of at least three slaughter operations going on in

1124
05:23:14.798 --> 05:23:31.120
the town of animals. Uh this has come up previously in the past. Uh a slaughter ordinance had been discussed in the past and never developed. Uh I think we need to be proactive on this as we see some of this uh developing in the town again.

1125
05:23:31.120 --> 05:23:48.000
Uh we had talked previously about the adopting of the state wildlife lighting uh standards. Perhaps that's something ULDC could take a look at and bring forward. Also bringing back the fireworks ordinance and as we talk about the future PBSO, this becomes an issue.

1126
05:23:48.000 --> 05:24:03.760
But um and I know there's state rules in place that we have to be careful, but I I still contend the fireworks ordinance has some abilities to be applied. So perhaps Mr. Curts, that that could go

1127
05:24:03.760 --> 05:24:21.040
back to you. Um I would also ask what is the status of cost recovery? uh maybe you can bring us back report on how many of these are outstanding and and how much monies are owed either to to the town or to the applicants.

1128
05:24:21.040 --> 05:24:37.200
Uh and perhaps uh Miss Young, you can bring us back the uh status of sign enforcement. I know that that had started at the end of last year calendar year. Maybe we can see that perhaps uh Mr. Curts, you can bring back

1129
05:24:37.200 --> 05:24:52.000
historical legacy. historical legacy I think we had agreed would be sunsetted but I don't know if that ever transpired so sorry >> not it's a 180 issue is was held up previously but I'll take a look

1130
05:24:52.000 --> 05:25:09.440
>> okay yeah if that we could get that um we I would like to bring back resolution 202601 the renaming of Okachobee to middle road and resend that rescend repeal whatever the process is for that and I'd like to propose was bringing

1131
05:25:09.440 --> 05:25:26.560
back ordinance 20128 and remove PUDS from uh from land use. So would also consider directing business tax receipts to only be issued for businesses operating lawfully within

1132
05:25:26.560 --> 05:25:43.200
the land uses and zonings where they're located because we're we're sending a message that is confusing to to people regarding whether what they're doing is legal or not in the town. And um no pressure on agriculture businesses to to

1133
05:25:43.200 --> 05:25:59.280
provide business tax receipts. Believe it or not, that's not the entire list. So, um, again, I apologize for the long meeting and I was going through that very quickly. Perhaps in the future, uh, if we're going to have lengthy comments

1134
05:25:59.280 --> 05:26:18.638
like this, Valerie, would you prefer they be submitted to be included in the agenda if if they're ready? And, um, what is the deadline to do that? Uh now it will be probably two weeks prior to the

1135
05:26:18.638 --> 05:26:34.240
council meeting >> even council members. >> That way we can go ahead and include everything in our packets. That way you have them for your agenda review workshop. >> So you want something like this? Yes. >> Two weeks prior to the Tuesday of the

1136
05:26:34.240 --> 05:26:50.320
meeting. So basically the meeting prior to the meeting >> the meeting. >> The prior to the meeting of the meeting. >> Awesome. And and again, this has been a a conversation previous councils have wrestled with uh council directing staff on what's on the next agenda and perhaps

1137
05:26:50.320 --> 05:27:06.560
this is a way to address some of that and that way when we are getting this late we can just refer to our item and just say yes we we agree with that because we've had time to review it. So with that motion to adjurnn second

1138
05:27:06.560 --> 05:27:18.600
>> no no I need a motion to adjurnn >> to move >> second. >> Thank you Paul. Uh, Vice Mayor Sud motioned and uh, seconded.