way crescent and trails and greenway advisory committee. Um stand up for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Uh can we have the roll call, please? Frank Shyola, >> present. >> Darcy Dean Murray, she is absent. Katie Lakeman, >> present.
>> Ashley Bruce. >> All right. Public works superintendent Craig Lowour. >> Present. >> Great. Everybody is here. So, we have a quorum. >> Great. Okay. Approval of the agenda. Do we have a motion to approve? Motion to approve the agenda. I second.
>> Motion second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor? All oppose? Motion passes. 3 to zero. Okay. First item on the agenda, draft proposed horse multi-use purpose
trail sign design with rules, town logo, and placement of plan. Craig, do you want to go ahead and take this? >> Um, yes. So, I am waiting for the proof to come back. I sent it out. I took some of Miss Ashley's recommendations that she had emailed plus what you guys had
put in. I sent it to them. I'm just waiting on a a proof from them so we can go I can actually present it and have you, you know, you guys could approve it. >> So, we have to go ahead and put this off to the next. >> I was hoping they would have it back by today and I could present you a copy of
it, but it was not back yet. >> Okay. Sorry about that. >> You you can't control the uh the other people doing the work, you know. >> All right. Number two, committee recommendations to bring forward to the town council
>> committee >> have to be trail related. >> Um actually, you know, it doesn't Yeah. trails or roads or uh greenways. >> Yes. I mean, or or you know, whatever you have on your mind. I'm sure we could tie
it in somehow. >> Um, I think that you're right about that. Everyone's just so focused on the the one situation at hand. But one thing that does come to mind, Craig, is is that
stockpile of dirt going to be there indefinitely with people? >> So, we are going to be using that pile. That's that is Shell Rock. Um the reason we did buy it is because the Homie Jag was bought out by a big investor and they jumped their prices astronomically.
>> So the biggest thing was is to buy much as we could so we can stockpile before the price jumped to almost $8 more a ton. >> So it saved the town what we bought almost 15 $16,000. So it'll be there for a little bit until
we start dispersing out. We started today, start putting it out on other roads. >> My concern is only this, like as the season approaches, people are going to go to ride their horses there. >> Excuse me. And maybe not see that loader or, you know.
>> Yeah. Our machines aren't there all the time. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, when I've seen the pictures online, everything, our machines are only there when they're loading. When they're not loading, the machine is not there. >> Oh, the machine sitting there would be fine. It's when the, you know, somebody rides up, then the machine starts. But
>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, hopefully my guys do see or hopefully if somebody's on a horse, they flag us down. >> Okay. >> Anything else? >> It's all I can think of at the moment. >> I mean, yeah, you can actually tie the um um the the trailer park in because
they're doing equestrian trails around it and all that. So, if you want to go that route, >> but I don't know. I don't know that they are. That's a That's not a the the trailer park. They're not putting any trails in. >> That's our property. That's our everything that where that material is.
That has nothing to do with the the RV park. That's 100% us right there. >> Anything else? >> I don't think so. >> I mean, maybe we just do a report to the to the council about what we talked
about throughout the year and the progress that we made. We're doing the the PSA, right? The public service. We're working on that. >> We're working on expanding the trails. They did the hide park trail and we have a whole map now of a more updated map.
>> Um and any um additional the bridge that you showed me today. >> Ashley did do her ride around today with me. >> I did the ride. It was it was great too because it's a chance to explore the town, maybe see areas that I haven't, you know, been aware of before. So, I would just I my I guess my suggestion
would be to to just update the council on our progress um and that we're making progress with the signs as well. >> I think the signs are huge, but we really have to have that. >> Yeah. >> So, I did bring up the council that we
were updating the sign and they were, hey, we spent money on making the signs and going over this about the north trail. So, I was trying maybe you can inform your your members that we're going over rule signs and what your opinion on on the rule signs are.
>> Okay. >> Cuz for like the actual trail sign, they had their set on that big five tall the one that had the five little things on it >> of what remember we went over the five like two meetings ago. >> They were kind of set on like using those signs on the trails. But maybe you
can explain to them what the rules like, how we're going through the rules and everything >> because I do believe rules is a big thing that would help and for the town as well as for everyone else. >> If if they meet state statutes first of all and and secondly those brown signs,
they actually I don't think they they might not meet the current town ordinance or signs. >> It is possibility. I mean, because I think they're that big, you know, that they don't >> um you know, so that's that's the way that that you know, for for me when I deal with elected officials that if you
go there and tell them, well, you know, if if you want to break your own rules, that's great, but you know what? Let me know it right now because I'm going to start putting up so many signs around here. You're not going to like it. And they go, no, no, no, that's fine. You know, it's because I mean that's the whole thing. if we have they want us to
live by them. So >> everyone has to >> they need to live by them also. >> Yeah. Lead by example. >> Do you have anything else that you want to bring up for for this? >> Um not specifically other than the progress that we made. I don't know what we need to have recommended for them to vote on.
I don't know the difference between it. I think that we've already made our progress. >> Well, just not to vote on just to bring forward to them. Yeah. like um for for me um uh the the fence along Okchobee that we were talking about when we first >> started doing this, it seems like that
all of a sudden we talked about it and it was a great idea and then and DOT had their people come out to look at it and the county had their people come out to look at it and I didn't hear anything else about that. I don't have horses anymore but I think that that would be
good to you know it's the fence like they have on Southcore. Yeah, it's a visual thing sort of it keeps everybody in their lane and um you know that's something I really would like to see implemented. That's that's a major deal. >> Kind of like the same thing they have on Pearson Road in Wellington.
>> Yeah. Or Southshore. Same thing where they have all it is I mean it's not going to stop a car from coming through but it it gives you a visual reference and that's really important and and I've been traveling Southshore for the last year solid every day just about and I don't see the fence getting hit or
anything. So, you know, um I know they do have I think they have a little curb there also, which is good. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Right. Well, plus it it it if you're going off, you you hit the curb first before you hit the fence. And the the second thing, and we were talking about
this before you you came in, Craig, was um um the um the the retention area and horse trails that are over behind um Aldi's and and all that over there. >> Yeah. And Solar Sport. >> Yeah. >> Or Yes. Yes. Solders do it all the time.
>> Yeah. They both >> But there's the retention >> sun sport. Yeah. It got me there and I was like, >> they do the same thing. >> But there's retention areas. There's the dyke areas and all that. And you know, I'd like to see it's I know it's for horses, but it's it's it's I believe that it was meant as a multi-purpose
type of use. So eventually to get some um some small shelters made with, you know, for picnic tables, um things like that. maybe put a a small pier out onto the lake so that somebody go out there and they can do some fishing, you know,
passive passive things, you know, we don't want to have a a racetrack back there or nothing like that. But, um, you know, and definitely some um, you know, some trash cans eventually through there. I think that would help help out. But, um, I'd like to see that become more than just, you know, for horses
because there's a lot more uses back there and that's a very large area. So, I um I think it would just be nice just to have something that's a multi-use type thing. Uh I know I've seen people with their bicycles going back there, people with their horses, and everybody seems to get along. I haven't I haven't
seen I don't know, but I haven't seen of any major problems. >> Yeah. I've had to remove some kids out there on four-wheelers that the kids >> Yeah. Yeah. We've had to remove kids out there. We've had got a couple calls and go out there and they're flying around like crazy.
>> Yeah. And I mean then they they tear the stuff up and off, but then I see people on >> on, you know, on side by sides and all and they just tool nice and easy through there. Vor comes over there, they pull over, they shut their thing off, they let them pass. >> That's good. >> So, you know, it's all about working together. >> Mhm.
>> And that, you know, those are the two main things that I I'd like to say the fence is a biggie. >> At some point, the fence was discussed to go around that that whole property with just an entrance. >> Oh, that sound sounds going to pay for it. I don't know how that got.
>> Yeah, I don't know exactly. I'm waiting back from the I can actually add this into the email for the um cuz I did ask for the signage of naming the trail that you guys asked for. Um I sent an email. I'm just waiting for a response back. I can add this to it >> and see what they say on it.
>> Yeah. I mean, if nothing else, at least, you know, garbage can at the at the trail head each end maybe. Mhm. >> There might be one when you cross over to go to the college, >> but most of us don't do that because there's only a crossing one way.
>> Yeah. So, that's another thing we're trying to look at. I have to look at on were they supposed to apply one for each side. And if it is, they both have to interact to each other. Um, and right now it's only a one-way cross.
>> B. Yeah. B road >> be right behind Publix. >> Right where we went. where my video is where the home transit didn't stop for us. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But you know the um the the fencing down to Okachobee I think that's a priority. >> Wasn't that part of the grant that um
>> step two of the grant? So originally step one they applied for the crossings at each of the um and that was in February where they applied for the crossing the horse crossing signal but with I think curbs they were going to do >> or some kind of different sidewalk thing. >> Right. And and then there was like there
was like a a meeting where we were supposed to give feedback. So there was some feedback. >> Yeah. I was here for the one meeting that we had with Mary McN status of the grant or what's what's happened. Um um but phase two would have been that that
long fence along Okchobee. Um but there is discussion whether or not that would there's a lot of issues with that. But >> is is does anyone know where the grant is? Like the >> um I could send an email out to Mary McNichols and ask her and see where she's at. But the because it was Mary
that was the the front of it. >> I think that actually ties into the next one on the agenda. >> Yes. >> Recommendations for any grants. I mean that would that would be a um you know definitely one that you know Mary seemed that to think that there was a good
possibility getting it >> and then we put a some time and effort into it and now we don't hear nothing about it. >> Okay. Yeah, that's what I I just wrote. I had >> but I read somewhere and it could have been Facebook. I don't know. >> You can't believe that.
>> I know that's like I don't know. Um >> but everything on the internet >> that it was there was no we didn't get any grants. Does that make the >> I don't know exactly. I couldn't tell you. >> There's mural grant too is that Darcy was headed up. It was going to So I don't I don't know what the stat so I
guess before we before we report to the council we should at least know about >> well the status of those grants are and and any other ones that are available. I mean I is Mary the the go-to person. I was thought she was cuz
like I said I got brought into that one grant meeting that they had like a recommendation or an update that I came in at the end of before I came in as the liaison here. So I don't know where she what her stance was with the grants. So I'll have to get with her and see what
her exact stance on. >> And then there's another lobbyist too and I'm not even quite sure which one covers you know. Yeah, I know we have our we have our Tallahassee lobbyist and then I think Mary's more or less the local lobbyist. >> Okay, that puts it into perspective.
>> I mean, honestly, I don't know what kind of of grants there are out there for us to even re recommend them unless anybody has an idea. >> I I didn't know if you guys had knew as well.
Okay. Any any more discussion on the recommendations bring to the town council or the grants? >> No, we're good. >> Okay. Um Greg, do you have anything to say? >> Yeah. Um with Miss Ashley's ride around, I just want to know, was there anything
that you would want to bring to the committee that you saw as the ride around that we could, you know, be more productive on or we can push forward to? Because I mean you I I know you took a lot of notes at all the driving. I was driving around. Plus I was working in the process too. >> So you had to make my phone ring about
100 times. >> So we did a drive around today about for about an hour, hour and a half. It was um and it showed me different areas of the town, what they're working on, what they want to work on. Um I liked a lot of the bridge replacements that you guys are doing. Um the especially the one uh
I forget what it was called, but it was on G it was by G- Road. Um that that that area looks nice and 25th. >> Yeah, >> 25th. >> Um that was nice. I I and I know we talked about this in in the on the ride
around. I I would like to see a few more if it's possible um like pedestrian or horsefriendly um bridges over canals. And I know that from your perspective, you're explaining that they need to have it wide enough for their maintenance vehicles to go on.
Um, from my perspective, I would like to I don't I don't I understand that, but I would like to see smaller, you know, I don't know the price of them, but it would be nice to have more bridges that you could have more weaving in and out of trails over the different canals because we have a lot of canal banks
that we can utilize. It's just getting there and it's hard to get there and it's hard to kind of connect. So, I don't that would might be something maybe we could explore um down the road and and the prices for that of of maybe a I don't know I don't know what the
horse um length would be but like five foot >> to be able to go across. >> The pipe would probably end up having at the minimum of 20 foot or I mean but we have a standard that we would have to use for actual main canals and most of ours are 40 foot wide.
>> 40 foot right? >> Yeah. >> Wow. So I mean that's our that's our normals as a standard for a pipe bridge. >> The wood bridge for example that the wood bridge that >> wood bridge is not ours. >> But is there a possibility that we could um have wood a wood bridge every now and
then across? >> I would have to get with uh Richard because he writes the standards on all those and see what he says and have to get with our actual our other engineers and see what they say as well. So, that was just something that I was just thinking of while we were driving around because it would be nice to have more um
connectivity and not just, you know, not just these huge uh bridges that that are for vehicles, but I the uh 161st um you guys, it looks like you guys did a great job or you guys are doing a great job on that. Um if you know, if we
were over there, I'd love to ride down um that area. Um the North Road Trail looks nice. I hadn't ever ridden down as far west as we went. Um, but that's definitely a nice, you know, trail to be
on. Um, and I don't know, it was just it was nice for the hour and a half that we were able to to do it. >> Oh, you you did ask about the um asking about if Westlake would let us, >> right, >> their perimeter. So, so we were on 161st and we went to the very end and there
was a dead end and there was kind of some some land there that I think was the towns where >> Yeah, it's the towns is where the road would go to, right? >> But we don't push the road all the way to the end >> and then you can go all down this canal. >> The canal. So, there's a fence there now though, I guess, to keep the the
motorized vehicles out. So I was asking can is there a way to the gate or or remove the fence somehow to allow >> to ride along the trail? But but you were explaining >> Yeah. Like I showed her on the other side of that fence is Westlake's property.
>> So all along that side would be Westlake's property. Only thing would be if you know we'd have to get a permission from them to allow inter local agreement >> our side of the canal. No. On the end of 161st down to the end where that little fence is, there's a little canal like
their perimeter canal that goes all the way around. >> That's all their property on that on both sides of that. >> Oh wow. >> Yeah. So that's all there is all the way around. >> So the canal that goes all the way down and it comes out by 40th. >> Yep.
>> This side our side calling it our side of the canal is owned by Westlake. >> That's on the So like Oops, sorry. So, like this is our property here, right? And Westlake's over here. There's a fence that along this side and there's a little canal that you're talking about that runs alongside inside Westlake.
>> That is 100% all their property. >> Yeah. Our property stops right at the fence. >> Yep. Just like at the back of like I showed Miss Ashley the um Miami Dolphin S farm back there. Um the their back fence is our property line >> because we used to ride all behind there
all the way from there all the way to 40th Avenue and nature preserve when it was Saratoga Pines just the like where they had piles of dirt and stuff and it be very possibly could have been owned by >> someone else
>> the orange groves at that time. >> Yeah, it was probably the orange groves back then. I had to say >> I didn't realize that the property line was that far. >> Yep. So, >> yes, it is. Yeah. >> Um, uh, something else I'd like to, and I I don't know if it'd be a grant thing,
but more for the town to take a look at >> is that is that key intersections where you have a lot of traffic or something like that, especially anything that comes up to Okachobee, all the letter roads of having the the the solar powered stop signs that are are
flashing, you know, red like they have over in Wellington. And um >> lot a lot of it ID has those on other >> Yeah. We don't need to have them at every single stop sign. It'd be nice to have it, but at at some main roads like you know for like B- road and collecting
canal, D- road, F road where you have the a lot of traffic going through there having especially at night I think that would you know it it it's uh the um I see the the solar powered one for the horse crossing and if somebody lights it up at night which I I've only seen it
once and it was a malfunction but it it was nice. I mean it's flashing, you see it and it attracts your attention. Did anything ever happen with that being changed from white to a color? Craig, that crossing sign that Frank is talking about because now it's the lights are
white >> on the one at C road. >> At B Road where you cross to go to the college, the horse crossing. >> Okay. I've never seen that thing flash. So >> I couldn't tell you the color of it. I've never ever I've seen the one at B-road flash cuz there's a guy that crosses there with multi horses,
multiple horses at times, but I don't think I've ever seen the one over there flash. I've never seen a horse cross there. >> He did it. >> Yeah. Oh, you guys did it. >> I think we need to I don't know if for the next ones at least, we need to make sure that they're either red or
>> Well, it would be yellow. You couldn't put red. Red would be a stop. Yellow is just a >> a caution. It's a recommendation to slow down. Maybe a crosswalk too because there's no and I know the there's issues with horses with that but there's no there's nothing that like tell people
>> what Wellington did for a lot of their asphalt crossings is is they went and did like a light mill to rough up the road a little bit. So the horseshoes actually have like almost a grip to it with their shoes instead of being a slick asphalt. A lot of their crossings are that right now.
>> Smart. Yeah. >> Yeah. So they brought in like a little Miller machine and it roughed up the asphalt so they can cross it easier. >> I Yeah, I'm very curious about that February grant. We should know by now.
>> Okay. Um so that that with that that completes our regular agenda and we're going to move on to committee member comments. Katie, do you want to start with do you have any comments? I already said all my comments. >> Ashley, do you have any any further
comments? >> Just to the to the town and to the staff of the town, just continue to think about what um how we can make how we can have trails and when you guys are doing the roads just on the forefront like what kind of trail can we can we make here for improving the roads or fixing
them. Um that's it. I think you guys are doing that already, but just >> Yeah. like you saw on 161st that we're actually adding material to one side of the road to build the side of the road up a little bit like we did right here in East Citrus Grouper. We did the same thing. We're kind of doing a 8ft buffer
off the road of a flat surface to try to give actually a horse somewhere to ride and it was like as me and Miss Ashley went today there was actually a horse going down east citrus horse trail. So it was actually pretty nice. Maybe >> that's a really nice long straight road
to the end. I just might sometimes I would like I would like to see like parking for trailers because you know I can't I'm all the way on Marcella. >> I can't it's hard to get all the way out by >> Sea Road, you know. And so it would be nice to have like little maybe small little areas for
>> even if it's just a pullover. We're not asking for >> Right. Yeah. >> Well, it's like I I mentioned Miss Ashley was like the town doesn't have property, >> right? I know that's the problem >> to to make something like that. We don't we barely like Seab Road is where we have a little bit of property to store material that we have right there. It's
just we don't have property anywhere to make anything. >> Open some like they have to put it somewhere. >> Yeah, we have nowhere. Okay. I um um the only comment I have it's directed towards towards uh Craig
and the and the town in general is that I see progress. I know it's slow, but at least we see something being done here in town as opposed to over the years where everybody talked about it, but nothing was being done. So, I wanted to
uh thank the Craig and and public works and town staff for yes, >> you know, doing the replacement for the covers and and paving roads and and clearing roads and things like that. And, you know, there's a lot more work to be done. I mean, that's there's, >> you know, there's 80 years that nothing
basically was done in this town >> except moving dirt back and forth >> and um >> it's a lot of work >> and it's it's nice to see it and I'm I'm hoping we get all the roads paved so we can get rid of the graders and the water trucks and >> well, we don't have a water truck. We got rid of that. But but um you get rid
of the graders and and concentrate more on instead of having grading roads or whatever of just doing the canals and keeping the roads clear and things like that and it'll make it a lot easier for you guys and >> and to make it uh make it a lot easier
for us too on our on our on our wallets. >> Thank you. And it' be for public works staff. They do all the work. >> So >> all our guys do. The only other comment that I have is I was at another meeting
earlier today and there was a um there's a a push in the legislature right now that there's two of them. One of them I don't think is going to go anywhere. The other one probably will. The first one was to get rid of property taxes altogether and the legislature is not on
that. But what they're looking at doing is that they're looking at uh upping the homestead exemption from where it's at now to $250,000. So that's going to be something that if it actually comes to fruition and they're actually talking about putting
it on the November ballot so the the the people can vote on it. And I can tell you that a vast majority of the people look at this and go, I want that because it's going to save them money. But at the flip side, um this this town runs on
on I think like 30 or 40% of its budget is Laurum taxes. >> Yeah. >> So, um if if that actually passes, then that will actually almost disintegrate. And it's not just our town. It's actually, you know, uh, countywide, the cities, everybody would be affected by
this >> u because it would affect fire services, uh, police services, things like that because most most municipalities, including the county, >> their building departments, they're they're self-funded, their water departments, their garbage, all that
stuff is self-funded. But when you get to emergency services or in public works, that's usually not self-funded. That's where Adorum kicks in at. So something to watch. Um I know that they're going to they're going to bring it up um but they're going to bring it up at the end of the legislative
session. So there's not a lot of time for anybody to really, you know, really um debate it and their whole goal is to put it on there. Um this is the the state's way of instead of dealing with the really big problem of insurance uh
cost they're looking at they're going well we're going to solve everybody's problems we're going to we're going to do this and it's not going to as much as I would like to get that exemption for my house I realize that it's going to be that we're going to feel it not only here in Los Angeles groves directly but
indirectly with the fire department with the sheriff the sheriff's is going to come to us and go we're going to need more money and >> it'll Right. And the the fire department can't get more money out of us because we're under M MSTU here >> still. So, um and and you know, services
will suffer and it'll be services and you know, we have to figure out what to cut in Los Angeles Groves for the town. What what is the county cut? What is the you know, what does the state cut? So, um you know, something to look out for. And I was at this meeting today and that was um a big topic and um and it is it's
coming through. So, um, you know, just something to look out for. >> Yes, sir. >> And sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but >> I already >> I've already knew about it as Yeah, they've been talking about it. >> Okay. So, um um our next meeting
September 25th, 2025, is everyone get their calendars out and see if they can make it. It's a >> That's a Thursday. It's the 4th. >> Remember that's when we changed it. Yeah, because it was supposed to be the 18th of >> out of town the 18th one. >> What's I'm sorry, Frank. What was the
date again? >> September 25th. >> I got it. >> Is that good? So, we can pencil that in. >> Yes. >> Correct. >> Okay. September 25th it is.
I'm going to add it in here. [Music] done. Okay. Okay. Um, do I have a Is there anything else, Craig? Do you want to say anything else before we >> No, it's got a lot of stuff down here that we can put together and come
through with things. So, >> okay, sounds good. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> Second. >> Second. >> Okay, journ. I like those fast meetings.