##VIDEO ID:bpDu97Bl-go## okay uh in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law be advised that this meeting is being recorded and will be broadcast over the Lumberg Public Access channel the recording of the meeting will be available on the UN lunberg public access YouTube channel within 24 hours following information has been provided to citizens to join if they want by zoom and they can ask ask questions by using the raised to hand uh future um we have an agenda uh there may be votes taken on agenda items not all items listed may be in fact discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion so um we are underway and um we have introduced ourselves prior to the recording to Our Guest which is Chris Riley who's the town's uh relatively new land use director and um Chris and I had a chance to run into each other earlier in the week and uh I invited him to participate in our meeting tonight we had talked about having him be a part of our meetings before and we're glad that you take the time to to be with us Chris I'd like to ask you to do a couple things one just kind of give us your background and then uh after you do that what what are your top three issues uh as the land use director and then uh depending on how those conversations go uh we may have some questions for you so a little bit about your background and what your top three top three issues top four issues might be as the new land use director for lenberg sure great well um I've uh been sort of a circuit writer of sorts in my planning career I've been all over the place and um down to the the south coast and way up in Salsbury and all in between and um in my many stops and and um experiences I always really enjoyed working with boards like you folks uh you know working on the important and difficult challenge of maintaining architectural preservation in the in this Village Center so it's part of the reason why I was interested in this job and came here to work with you folks so it's an important sort of uh ethos of mine and as a planner it should be and um and so uh you know all these years I've learned I picked up a lot I've worked in historic um districts have have uh helped historic commissions uh do all sorts of regulations and bylaws and demolition delays and Implement them so there's a lot of experience there that you know sort of deals with the kind of things you guys grapple with but uh three things uh you know obious obviously you haven't had the sort of experience and stability in this position for a long time that you really need and lunberg is sort of like on the border of you know I wouldn't say you know the the hordes invading but um we don't live in a vacuum and so part of the appeal of this job is that I could come here and help you folks to maintain the character of lunenberg while you know try to manage the change as well and number two is just uh do the variety of things that lunenberg does uh I really liked just how many um different areas and activities lunenberg was involved in when I when this job first appeared and so I thought after 30 years this is sort of what I prepared for and I I'd really like to get back to the Hands-On uh type of planning position that you folks uh sort of emphasize so and and number three is you do all the right things you know the master plan being updated slowly but surely um and you're focusing on the right things but there's Forks in the road and um you can make faithful decisions go down a fork and think it's the right decision but you know a lot of these things need a lot of thoughtful consideration and some technical expertise and toolkits to help you sort of make the right choice it's always the town's choice but um to have sort of professional staff and and we've got some good people in Ritter uh to do that and support you that that's that's critical and so I value that and um it's a job for me but um you know I want to enjoy it as well and I don't want to twiddle my thumbs Counting Cars all day so I saw this as a Hands-On sort of um position and and that's why I'm going to be there to support you and whatever you need you don't need me I you guys you know know your stuff and um it's all up to you you know how and when you want to utilize me but I will be available that sort of cover it yes it did thank you um any questions Richard Nathan no it sounded great thanks okay um we're we're pretty good about keeping to our hours uh time Chris so you can spend as much time with us as you want and if you leave just say hey I'm I'm bugging that um but you can stay with us and and go go through us go through with us our agenda items um the U we have no other members of the public with us and there's nobody on on Zoom so I'm going to ask for approval of both the 14 November ask for a motion for approval 14 November and 12 December meeting minutes and thank you once again wayam for getting those out to us motion to approve okay uh is there a second second it any discussion well we do approving the I was at the November not at the December so we approve it one at a time or yeah we'll we'll proove them one at a time if you want to do it that way since you weren't here um let's do the uh the November meeting minutes first um I have a couple little uh typographical issues uh William I'm going to go ahead and I marked them off I'm going to go ahead they're just things like uh you know pretty minor in nature I don't think they changed the U the nature of the meeting minutes so is there a motion to approve uh the 14 November meeting minutes U with those slight typographical changes indicated all those in favor say I I motion first oh I'm sorry I thought I got a motion I thought I got a motion I motion yeah Willam second all right thank you um any other further discussion all those in favor of approving the meeting minutes with small typographical changes any opposed all right so that's approved the uh the December meeting meant same thing um like on one of the cam pack we brought into town hall you had just one C it has two C's so those are the kinds of changes that I've noted uh is there a motion to approve the uh meeting minutes from December okay all right uh any further discussion if not uh all those in favor say I hi I okay those meeting minutes have been approved so if you make those two changes and then send those off to the time cour F away greatly appreciate that okay um let's go into current business uh the historical Commission in the Town pound update Richard you asked me to put that on the on the agenda yes so over to you okay uh historical commission is uh involved with the uh Town survey of the Cyrus Kilburn houses from the 183 I think it's 1833 Cyrus Kilburn map Cyrus Kilburn was a surveyor in town and um did a map with all the existing houses at the time so we historical commission is undergoing a uh project where we've hired a consultant to um do the research so he going to U do a survey of all the existing houses that are on that map um plus Marshall Park um the Goodridge cemetery plot is a family cemetery plot at the corner of um fish and Lincoln Street and the desecrated um anold Lich cemetery on West Street Terrace as well as a a militia training ground that was on the common so he's going to do research into uh these houses document them uh hopefully have them uh documented so that um if uh if there's uh owner chooses he can have it uh nominated for the national register um so that's ongoing I met with him today at the Historical Society um we went over all the uh resources at the society that are available to him and then I drove him around uh to all the houses uh that I thought were part of that map uh in the south and west of town um and tomorrow will take care of the East and North sides of town um so he's getting oriented to um uh to the area he's from Vermont so he's never been here before so I'm taking him around showing them the streets and and uh getting him used to the town then he's going to photograph these at a later date um the project will be completed sometime later in the year uh so that's ongoing um I had the Town pound I thought should be on Horizons it's uh it dates from I think 1763 or 64 um and is in need of um some maintenance and attention with large trees encroaching on the structure as well as uh some of the stones are falling out and uh the gate needs maintenance and the um sign needs to be painted and I would hope to have a historical sign put up there um that uh talks about the history of that place um how do you propose to get the maintenance done by volunteer or yeah I think it can be done with Vol volunteers yeah yeah it's easy enough um I I have an outline the plan that I've had for years to uh to do that project so can you share that with me I would supervise it yeah yeah dig it out send send it over and then we'll take a um is there something you can email or is it something you'd have to hand carry um I can email it too yeah okay good um also the uh that pound is in Marshall Park so it's under the jurisdiction of the parks department so that would have to be U coordinated with them okay I I this the notion of having a to Pond and and it still exists is fascinating yeah I mean I think that that's a that's a historic gem that we really need to make sure it doesn't disappear yes so and it's within the APD so it makes sense for us to be involved with that yeah and uh you know if you get a volunteer party together Count Me In it's a volunteer yeah it was proposed by um John Fitch in the 1760s to at town meeting to uh to um build that and it was authorized wow and that's where like the Stray cows and the Stray goats that were roaming around town that's that's where they went and the owner had to go down there to De claim yeah that's crazy tell me in volun as well yeah what was that tell me in his volunteer as well okay thank you Chris yeah my my uh daughter-in-law had a stop on um Lancaster Avenue for a cow that apparently had come from stillman's Farm this this is like last year and she was telling me this I say oh it's a good thing it wasn't back in the old days the stem would have had to go down to to Pond and get get their cow to the P yeah she ended up calling the police said you know say there's a cow walking on Lancaster Avenue and he come down and go oh this isn't the first time we've had to bring the cow back to the farm okay well Richard uh thanks for the update um you know I think that uh this the survey that you've launched you know for the historic houses I think that's going to have a play in what is our next topic for discussion and that's the merger of both the historic commission and the APD oh um one other thing is the U historic um uh Hometown Heroes banners project um that the historical commission proposed for the uh uh would mostly be in the uh in the APD um so that uh we're still trying to get that going um Jennifer Sanderson um was uh going to call Ker to meet with him um to get his input on on that project okay so that that's the um where they put banners up for uh local servicemen from the past and present on Telephone polls you've seen that in other communities we hope to get that going here okay so let's talk about the historical Commission in the apdc merger um I actually spoke to Carter today and uh the Town Council has not been you know engaged yet to do the legal review and um Carter confr at today in the conversation I had with him and I and I think that uh you know he has shared with me his concerns about making significant changes in terms of the bylaw and having the the APD bylaw affect the entire town and he says I think that if you try to do that he says I think that it will not be successful you know if we have when we present this to time meeting he says I do think it's a a great idea to merge the two groups for the purpose of you know having a a smaller demand for volunteers he says I think that that has real Merit and real value and I agree with that um I mentioned to him my concerns about whether the APD bylaw would really stand a court challenge you know if we tell somebody you can't do that or you know for example if we go to if we issue uh you know like a you know a letter saying that um a property owner is engaged in demolition by neglect and we have some viable candidates for receiving that letter in the town that that would not be something that the town would feel comfortable taking to court and wa who said that I said that I said that and the reason why I said that is because of the conversation I had with Adam Costa back in you know two months ago and and that was what I really wanted you know Adam to explore and so far he hasn't done that well actually I think Adam was the there was legal review when this was proposed for the town to pass yeah it was but Adam wasn't the attorney uh so it has had legal review by Town counsel so I don't I don't think we you know the town paid a competent lawyer to review that they reviewed it I don't know why we're second guessing it especially as the apdc it's makes no sense at alltimate well this is uh this is what um Adam suggested and he says I need to research whether or not the bylaw went through the Attorney General's office for review and that hasn't happened yet and but Carter asked what hasn't happened he hasn't researched it or no he hasn't he hasn't researched it Carter hasn't told him to do that yet and what Carter asked me to do today he says go to the town clerk and ask them to pull the file on the APD bylaw and see what review it had by the uh Massachusetts Attorney General's office and what was in there he says you can do that he says you know they should have that information and uh he says let's start with that he says and then I won't have to ask Adam to do that b well how how would the the whole thing be set up if it wasn't approved because the way it works according to Adam yeah and according to Carter is that the time can pass bylaws and it and then after the bylaws are passed then they go before the Massachusetts Attorney General's office and they say we agree with the bylaw no problems we disagree with the bylaw and here are some of the issues um or we don't agree with the bylaw but we think that the risk of issues coming about might be negligible you know so they they they pass that information back to the town and then the town has to decide what they're going to do with the uh the information provided by the Massachusetts Attorney General's office do you recall get letter point of information yeah you can do that online you can go to the AG's website to the municipal law section of their website and you can research every zoning determination they've made for the town of lunenberg um as long as they've been doing it okay so what what car Carter didn't tell me that so what car so I'm I'm getting input you know additional input from you but I think what I'm going to do is what Carter suggested okay go to the town clerk's office pull that file and then and then I I'll pursue what you've uh you've indicated I you know I've been quite impressed with the information that Massachusetts keeps online related to this is a mass.gov issue you know I have to go on on mass.gov to confirm that but I want to see what the T clerk has first and Carter says you should I says T you won't get it this afternoon we had this conversation about 2 o' this afternoon and uh he says but you should have it by Tuesday you'll know what what was sent forward my real fear is that nothing was sent forward you know so there may not be a yeah so in a future future conversations about this I think should be done in executive session they pertain they have serious legal ramifications I mean I we had a pre- preses firm before Costa which was ceman and page and I mean people take shortcuts and do dumb things so nothing's impossible but I wouldn't operate on the assumption that the bylaw which is the reason we're sitting here today is not enforceable I I think that you know like anything's possible Nathan as you just said and my real fear is is that this this bylaw got changed at the same time that the time Council got changed and and Adam Adam told me that Adam said that you know he agreed with you know his statements were you know to head counil most likely looked at this he says but sometimes it takes a while for that information to be be responded to by the Attorney General's office he says and there was a period in time when the town didn't have Town Council you know so that's that's kind of where I think that maybe fell through the crack regardless of whether it got reviewed I want to know what the you know the attorney generals said about the bylaw you know if if we have no issues then that kind of helps support what we want to do but if we do have issues that's going to be an under I'll make a motion that all further conversation on our board about this issue be done in an executive session until we have clear information about the outcome okay is there a second to that motion second all right all those in favor say I I all right so we'll do it that way um all right so I will gather information okay and then we'll bring that back okay um the uh we're going to have to move fairly quickly here though on that because if we want this to be on the you know there's been schedule established for um the warrants and um we have to have uh the language associated with the merger done for I think it was it March 17th Chris is that what I heard March 17th warrant closes yeah so we'll have to we'll have to be fairly quick there about this and what kind of strategy that we want to use with regards to this merger you know the one thing I think that that might be helpful for us is let's merge the bodies together with both the APD intact and the historic commission guidelines and govern governing regulations from the state without there being any changes you know so that the the bylaw that affects the architectural preservation District may now be managed by a combine board but those regulations don't go beyond the architecture preservation District we can we can merge I think the two bodies and keep the regulations I think without without too much trouble at a time even both all right yeah um so so we do this increment so you're proposing that that that would be your intent that that's how you'd like to see it done yeah okay I I mean I don't particularly disagree with that me kind of keeps it simple yeah uh that said um wanting to keep it simple and being able to keep it simple maybe two different things right like I think we do need Town council's input particularly because what we've been told before is the historical committee there's the authorization that committee has roots in State Statute it does and so um you know I think we better talk to council pleas quickly so just just from a procedural standpoint that has to happen pretty soon so we understand you know how big a change is it just in terms drafting I don't disagree with that naan so so we I like we're we have to be in a position at our February meeting to really kind of concretely decide and describe what that warrant looks like that's yeah that's not a lot so you mean without them in the next week or two then um just a quick question do do you are you folks familiar with the Town council's hours offic in fact he was there today yeah Carter and Carter had uh he was scheduled to meet with him today I I'll look and see when his next regularly scheduled time is but I I'm not I'm not a you know if I feel like we need to get some input from him before his next regularly scheduled time I'll bring that back to Carter the way we Carter and I left it is I says I'm G to go go to the to clerk's office I'm going to do that on Tuesday and then I says I will get back with you once I see the documents so I think that at that point it would be a good time for us to say all right this is what we have you know this is what we know and then if necessary that may have a dramatic impact on what our warrant article looks like I think that we could um at the very minimum propose an article that would bring both bodies together against existing regulations I think we could do that so would you against existing regulation yeah that we we that the historical commission they they have State guidelines State Statute guides are direct like the biggest issue compatible with yeah okay right I mean like like I think that we we can bring bodies together and still have the same okay law so who is GNA is who who who do we expect would draft the changes to the bylaw I'm going to do that you're going to do it yeah okay um with help with help maybe from Adam Costa and maybe yeah is this something that would be in like uh Riley your predecessor Adam Bernie assisted with uh drafting the previous APD APD by law right and um I don't know is that something you'd be interested in yeah I've done that more than a few times so happy to help in any way you you would find useful um I'm I'm reluctant to task you with that okay you know I think that for right now I I want to go back now Carter May askask him with that and I may ask Carter to have Chris help us okay but I don't want to do that directly not given the conversations I've had with G the other issue is the time May soon have a new time manager you know and that's certainly going to be something else that's gonna well just on the issue of drafting these bws I think unless Adam doesn't have limited time which would S surprise me yeah I think having someone like r at your disposal age get it closer to right the first time doesn't have to be perfect the first time but you know I age I I don't want to task him without Carter saying to do that that's procedural thing I don't really care about it but means you got to ask Carter to ask him or whatever more much more to be done with this item over the next five or six days so I want to see a merge I mean I I think that it's something that'll benefit you know all parties concerned you know um Nathan we did get some push back when Richard and I went before the select board we got push back from people that I didn't expect to get push back from about merging the two groups you so I think we we got to do this right or we're not going to we're not going to be successful yeah so are we discussing this this this now I I the December meeting I thought was going to be the 19th so I couldn't make that out I was I was busy that week um I'd like to discuss it because I think there's there's more to it than that okay um so you made a comment you know about Carter's thoughts about extending the district to the whole thing and that's fine I don't I mean I the bigger point is that um we can't take it for granted that the town or stakeholders like the SL are just going to like sign off on these things like we yeah we have to have conversations hear what their concerns are address their their concerns um I mean one of the bigger concerns you know I so couple things so there oh table that just for one second and come back to it so I I support the idea in general as well like you know um structurally I think it makes sense you know so I'm not like against I think it's a good idea overall um I don't know priority wise there's other bylaw cabinates we talked about and two are extending the district at least to um cover more the area around Marshall Park including the uh property that's there 763 763 yeah so to me like if I could have one thing at town meeting like combine them which is like or keep that house from getting demolished like I think uh you know and have the protections apply more broadly there I think that would be my bigger priority um and then the other the other bylaw that this goes together is uh update at least our guidelines if not the bylaw itself and again I I guess I am I'm concerned that anything that changes the scope the we open up in town meeting changing the scope of the APD or the apdc that um what's going to color that conversation is people's perception of the current performance current past performance of the apdc and particular like the you know uh the way we sold this and I think here's a print out of this is Rebecca of Landry's commentary to town meeting when we passed the the uh the uh AP bylaw and there's a link to the YouTube of her talking on there um is that this was going to be administered with a light touch long story short um our reputation thus far and that of the historical commission is not necessarily of having a a light touch um you know give me an example the example oh the the windows in town when they were trying to do the updates to the Ritter and our committee this is you know mostly before I joined and then drag down a little bit afterwards our committee was sort of perceived by some to be obstructing the town from moving forward with renovations to the Ritter um and that is the kind of thing that [Music] um that will haunt us if we try to do something that's you know and then that the architectural like the town now like we're building this that they're talking about renovating the redder and my understanding is that the historical commission has provided feedback that they don't like any of the design proposals the architect has provided the historical commission has members of the historical commission as what provided feedback to the town that they do not like the designs for the RIT expansion no the Historical Society said that that's that's right historical societ is that different that's different from the commission yeah oh societies over there they uh they collect the towns Antiquities and okay okay that's not the commission okay that's good uh long long story short is I think we've done some good things like I think the you know the efforts that um Anthony has done and that we've supported to to streamline the application review process those are good good steps I think we need to do more to on that clarifying and streamlining and sort of more clearly delineating the boundaries for you know not physical boundaries but boundaries regarding like you know where we're involved versus where we're not before we ask the town to let us you know do more more stuff like yeah I mean yeah I I really like the historical commission I really like this board and people on it I think from a skeptical outside eye you know one might say might have concerns about having the having the folks who care most about the history of ludenberg on the one hand it's good to have them involved in the architectural preservation because you want things to preserve on the flip side there might be concerned that that's just going to culturally Drive the the board to be even harder for citizens in the town to work with so that's that's my my concern is so I do support like I think it'd be much more efficient to have one one board but uh and I think we should take steps to start like I I I think like similar to the thing we did with the Brooks house I think it makes sense to get the wheels in motion at least you know so that we have a shot at putting it on that's what we're doing here yeah that's what that's what we're doing but um I definitely think we should also be moving forward with a prop unless you guys are okay with saying goodbye to 763 massab you know I think we should definitely be moving forward to not necessarily cover the whole town but ex extend figure out exactly how far we propos to extend the district and that's that's a zoning issue though I don't care what it is we need to get on the warrant to get it done actually the architectural preservation District boundaries are described in the APD bylaw The Village district is another thing I would propose that we amend the two simultaneously so yes I think we should be working with the planning board on that but um but I think we need to get that I think priority wise we need to get that done because I mean otherwise the demolition delay is going to expire some point I is the clock ticking on that again uh they're in violation of the uh demolition delay bylaw since the beginning um so um every day they're in violation of it adds another day to the two years okay so it's going forward and the two years is being used up being added to at the end I haven't heard a thing them so given the preference for the town to do these kind of bigger changes in the May meeting I think we should similarly get that ready I think we should get those two things ready for the May meeting the guidelines update I'm willing to take the point on that I'll look at bu law and see if I recommend any changes there as well of course we all have you know bring it to our board to review that um extending the district um uh Riley if I could if you if the board authorized me to work with Riley on that I think that's something that extending the district extending the district um personally Nathan I think we would have I think we got to prioritize what what is it that we want to see done in a way of changes and I think that we launched the merger concept uh first you know two meetings ago two meetings there you mean maybe three meetings ago so I mean that that's I mean I want to stay focused here and I think that if we put too many issues out there between now and a March 17th date for a warrant that we're going to end up getting none of those things now I'm just you know I'm one person on this commission you know I'd rather win when that goes forward I don't I'm I'm not sure I can support it until we get the the bylaw language clear so I support it in principle but I don't support it until we've gotten these updates made to the at least the okay let's let's go back to what we how we started this process in this conversation is that we wanted to see what legal issues would be prompted by a merger okay we still don't have an answer to that question that You' been the point person on that I have and but I've also been working with time manager in the select board and I want to I want to finish that task before we decide and we're going to and we're close to that well you want to I don't I want to get started on this wait that this isn't going to get but I think that if if we went to if we went to the select board through the planning board and said we want to extend um the APD 76 to include 763 Mass Avenue yeah I think that that would generate a lot of questions and a lot of concerns on the part of people why because first of all it's spot zoning the only reason why we're doing that is that we're moving the district to catch a house that we're concerned about we have a way of making sure that that house doesn't get demolished you know the demolition we already have a regulation it says that there's a demolition delay mechanism that's in place and they haven't complied with that What Makes Us think that by extending the APD to that boundary line is going to have any significant change on that issue um well the Dem and and in the course of trying to do that well it's it's very clear why you know why because the APD is not uh demolition delay it's a demolition prohibition yeah and and that's at the very heart of what we ask for legal review no no that's what you ask for legal review I no that's that's hold on that that's the very reason we are here is to enforce that so if you want to review it and we review it in executive session that's fine I'm not here to to do the work of and I think it makes sense to legal review If there really is an issue there which we can talk about in executive session but right now that's on the books and that's why we're on this committee all right Nathan you want to pursue bylaw changes guideline changes draft them bring them back to the meeting in February okay I would like to work with Riley to be you I would ask that you talk to Carter Teran zini before you bring the subject back to Riley fine I'll talk to Carter so the board okay with me talking to Carter and Riley and theard about expanding the APD yeah absolutely but I don't want to I don't want to task a town employee without going through the okay you don't I don't care that's fine he's here to support us that's his job yep I should go to k first so he knows what's going or he should be in the loop so he knows what's going on yeah I'm sure Riley will keep him in the loop like he talks to his boss he won't agree to something his boss doesn't want him doing you'll do that right Chris yep but I want the request I want the request for you to do something to come from your boss sure okay um any other discussions mean I I have a commitment to you all to pull records do research find out how the bylaw was reviewed by the Massachusetts depart attorney general and I will deliver that information back to you as soon as I have it and then if need be we would schedule an AOC cycle meeting to discuss to discuss how we would proceed with any proposed changes to mer the two bodies together M okay and then what are you going to do uh I'm going to talk to Chris and Carter about uh extend two things one is extending what would it require to extend the district I also talk to the planning board about that um I mean going into this my thought process is exchange the amount entailed should be as little as just changing gaining maps and language related to the APD boundaries and the and possibly I would recommend the village District boundaries as well so that's conversation with planning board Carter bris and possibly select board might have to be brought looped in on that as well and then that would lead to a warrant and that would lead to a warrant article yeah to to make those modifications and you know that could that's not going to you know it would be a separate War if we did have a merger article on there that would be be separate from you know you can modify and then merge whatever I mean assuming there's going to be some level you know merging the the bylaws or whatever that's we have to see what it looks like with the murder but anys I think those those go together the other thing I'm going to do is I'm going to review our current guidelines and the bylaw and get real specific about what I'm recommending so I'm not speaking generalities in terms of what I think we need to do to continue this process of stream planning and making it clear for homeowners in the the town in terms of how we're going to interact with them about changes to their properties and you're going to work with Riley on that yeah absolutely um I mean I'm work with Riley and and you know ultimately of course you guys review it with you guys and you know planning board same same kind of set of stakeholders yeah yeah sounds good for me I don't see any conflict between the two um I don't see I don't see any conflict I just see I just see a lot that has to happen between now and March 17 that's what I see see what happens yeah the Future Okay um the lunenberg municipal building design committee activities the next item on anything else about merge of the two and changes okay um I've been participating in meetings um I actually uh uh have great concerns about uh the quality of the design work that's been done and where're headed with the project and I voiced my uh concern about that but the committee as a whole uh as well as I've had multiple conversations now with the chair of the committee and I asked the I asked the committee chair um via an email with it which all the committee members got we talking about renovating this building and adding an addition on are you speaking as a citizen or are you speaking I no I'm speaking as a member of the committee and a member of the I'm speaking as the apdc representative to the committee I'm not a formal part of the committee I've been invited to participate as a member of this commission okay and what are you saying to them uh it's a bad design it doesn't meet the needs of the town and that um the I asked the Michael Ray Jeff to um not request a third round of design changes from the architect until both the time manager and the school superintendent have had a chance to sit down and talk with the committee directly we have not had a single conversation with the time manager and the school superintendent as a part of our committee discussions since the design has started and um I watched a select board meeting where the select board charged uh the lunenberg municipal building design committee to figure out a way to put a freestanding building for PA at the same time it's working on this project you know the revamp of Ritter and an addition to Ritter and then uh the next night school committee uh had a lot of concerns and a lot of issues about the drawings that the second set of drawings that they had reviewed and um I think that uh you know it's time to stop the design process and get both Tom manager and the school superintendent in front of the committee and say what do you want to do at the point we are with this project right now and um I my I've had three conversations with Michael Ray Jeffers now and his our most recent conversation was on Monday and and he says well I saw your notes where you've asked me to stop you know put the you know stop the work until we've had a chance have these discussions he says and I don't I I hear you but I don't I don't know if I'm going to do that and as best I know that has not happened so um the the first phase there were three set there have been two sets of design changes original set and then the second set that came in and um the architect is not up to the challenge of Designing this project and and part of it is that I think that the charge that we gave them to put an addition on the west side of Ritter was was um legitimate initially but when we started to look at what they came back with and their design we had a brand new elevator being built and then maintaining chairlifts on this side of the building and I think that you know if you're going to do a project like this and you're going to build a building with a brand new elevator you got to be doing it in a way that eliminates a need for a secondary chairlift um so there were uh reviews done by staff from the town and there were reviews and Chris did you actually see drawings I did and the department said did as well we had a meeting with Michael Ray yeah about a week ago yeah and without putting you on the spot if you don't want to answer the question you don't have to um but were there concerns by staff about what they saw yes and um so given it was an opportunity to provide input um several of the Ritter staff members and land use had some and um and they provided it and that does seem to be better options in terms of the internal operational layout at least of land use and we gave that input and that and that same concern was raised School committees now part of the problem is that we prior to the project going out forbid there hadn't been any discussions about layouts and where people wanted to be um and then I think that process was accelerated beyond what it should have been because they were trying to obligate funding that was available to Aro um and now we're living with that think that that's a a big concern the Historical Society Nathan one of their because Michael Ray went to them and um historical said that building that addition is way too big and we can't support something like that on the end of the Ritter building and uh Michael Ray asked me he says what do you think about building a freestanding Town Hall where the old primary school was and I said I think that the concerns that the committee had about what town hall would look like uh after the first set of design drawings and the second set of design drawings where people were concerned about visibility and how would it look like on Mass Avenue it says if you tuck town hall and everybody on the committee had basically said we want presence on Mass Avenue we wanted to be decent pres to to then raise the question that we would put T Hall back where the primary school was I think is in direct conflict with the consensus that the committee had brought at both the 16 December meeting as well as the January 6th meeting so I said I don't think that's going to get the support of the committee I says and I think that personally for me selling the time adding and building new square footage for a town hall is not going to be well received at a May time meeting so that's the input that I've provideed um I've spoken with other members of the select board and they have concerns as well so I think that the solution to where we are is not to just keep proceeding but to get the key players time manager school superintendent in the same room with the with the committee would do well to move this project forward now um we are scheduled to have another review session with the architect on the 22nd of January that's next week and we'll see what happens but I think that uh we're we're we're struggling to get something that's going to kind of as a as a final comment is that there's a committee of seven people plus one me and I've seen no strong consensus about where we're headed I mean when you got eight people and you can't produce a set of drawings and people go wow I am all in on that let's do this and then when you go to the town administrative staff and when you go to the school committee uh and the school school administrative staff and there's no strong consensus there just a lot of concerns I guarantee you that this is not a project that's going to get sold a town meeting in May and what I told the chair was I want to see something get done I don't want us to go to town meeting in May and not have a consensus from the committee and not have consensus from the town the town administrative staff and not have consensus from the school committee that's because it's a guaranteed recipe for failure confront of the time and we don't have that yet all right any other comments questions that is that meeting on the 22nd open to the public or is that yeah it's a zoom meeting and uh the agenda with the zoom link was published at 4:30 this afternoon so you can get on and take a look yeah I and we've actually had some like Anna's participated in the meeting um we've had some other members of the public participate as well uh question so so I I understand that you you had some feedback as a member of the committee regarding sort of the process and getting other St holders involved that that's fine I mean makes sense um I mean at some point yeah they got to get people's feedback and make sure the design is like meets the requirements and whatever I guess um is terms of feedback from the APD about the design itself what what is your feedback Ben um on round one the architect chose a second crosswalk less than 500 ft from the existing crosswalk I says that'll never happen and and Ron one the superintendent was going to be in the basement of the Ritter building I says you don't put the highest paid employee in the town in the base in a basement office um Ron one I said um you have uh an elevator and then you have long corridors uh to get from the new edition to R it says and maintaining this over here it says quarters to get people from from one place to another yeah are a waste of money to build and a waste of money to maintain this is and and the architect needs to be more creative about how he links the two buildings together round two this the crosswalk remained in the project and at that point I was now joined by others who know that's never going to happen you know so you got a design the project with a single crosswalk that's already in existence and um the layoff for the time manager's office got moved from up here to the new edition but to get to the time manager's office you had to go through the assistant time manager's office um which is not appropriate okay so these were all things these were all things that said this is an architect who doesn't have the necessary skills to deliver a project that we can all get behind and and by the way others made those same comments I mean there were things one of the things that got picked up not by me but others was you have record storage in an exterior office that has Windows and you have the conservation administer in an interior office without Windows okay gotcha is far as the so I mean that's sounds like good feedback for the those points are good feedback for the arch receive I mean so it sounds like there what you've described so far is you haven't made any objections from the St is a participating member you've made suggestions as folks on that committee are doing and need to do um but from the is representing the apdc there you haven't found anything you haven't raised any major objections from like a apdc uh Village District bylaw standpoint in terms of the the design the exterior appearance that sort of thing I think that U the addition is overwhelming and uh I'm not the only one that SLO down and I've said that I says I would not do an addition that size I says I would I would look at instead of having a u-shape complex with the addition plus the uh 1965 Edition with the Ritter in the metal I says what I would do is I would explore an L-shaped complex by looking at maybe modifying significantly the 1965 Edition um keeping Ritter somewhat intact this is you know I would look at a way to expand uh the uh existing 1965 Edition by maybe going up two stories going out closer to the street you know going closer to Lancaster and um I think that they would that would go a long way in terms of keeping the Integrity of the historic building which is RIT not the 1965 Edition I mean I think and and I actually didn't make that comment I says I think you could tear down and rebuilt where the 1965 Edition is and it would enhance the appearance of the Ritter building it's it wasn't it wasn't a you know an appropriate ad in 1965 but I'm one member of the committee yeah there's C there's cost stuff they got to deal with it's an interesting I mean this the one thing that the scale piece in particular does fall under yeah our purview I guess I mean it's good to raise questions and make recommendations I would I would ask that before like issuing any showstoppers to them for design things related to architectural or historic considerations I'd like I mean I think it's fine to raise question I mean you have to be able to have free flowing dialogue and say what's on your mind but before saying you know we we bring I would like that to come back here so that that's what we're doing right now that's why I'm bringing up understand you and you can participate in the meeting on the 22nd of January no noes trust me I'm I'm I'm very much aware of the fact that I am a one person of a commission that has four people on it well and you're representing yeah a commission so if you're going to take a stand that like you know the ABDC can't support this or something you need to come back here and get it you can raise you can raise your concerns and talk about them that way you can't say the apdc I would like you to not say the apdc OB until you discuss watch watch the meetings Nathan and you'll see how I handle that okay and again this they're they're available right I am I am very much aware of what you're talking about and I would never say I that's the reason why I'm bringing this back to get input from you all yeah I mean you could say you have concerns about the scale and you can bring that to us and say Here's the scale I don't think we can supp you get what I'm saying so it doesn't sound like you're saying you haven't stepped stepped over that line that's fine again and this gets back to the point we were talking about earlier of Richard was asking what are examples of you know are these committees kind of getting you know being a hindrance overburdensome to town where I just don't want to end up in that territory that's all you know what's what's been really pleasing for me is that I've had other committee members um reaffirm that preserving town hall and Ritter are important parts of this project you know both I mean just about just about every almost what person I mean I've heard it from um you know members of the committee say more than once is that it's really critical for us to maintain the historic nature of the building and town that's great yeah we come that's part of where my concern comes here too for us is that like you you talk about through your participation here that you think right now maybe it's not on the direction to passing and you're trying to get the stakeholders in that you think need to get in the right direction get the changes made that can make it pass because I I think it is in the from a preservation standpoint I do think seeing the Ritter included in the next round of town uses is an important step for preservation like I don't think we have another funding strategy building use strategy that comes near to guaranteeing the preservation of the original Ritter it's one of the reasons why I keep saying I want to sell something because maintaining these buildings through this process is key and essential to their long their longevity I agree with that yeah but we're not we're clearly not heading there I mean once again I go back and say look at the small unit look at the small sample people that are on the committee no one's Wild by what we have you know broughten it to the school committee and the school administrative staff and town staff no one is wilded by what we have that's not going to pass time meeting in May where we're headed right now it's not going to pass time and I don't want that to be the cas you know I want us to figure out a way to use these buildings you know like I'm very concerned about town hall being just a meeting room you know no the architect has helped that process because all the conference rooms that people need to in their immediate area like for Chris and for B Brian gengis and for the to manager they have to walk across the street because the architect didn't include any nearby conference rooms for those people in these buildings that ain't going to work either you know it's going to be efficient for yeah it does work yeah okay all right so um I I I trust me I don't want to overset my boundaries as a participant in this process and I don't think I have anything okay cool okay um so the next item and I encourage you all 22 January uh I think it's at 5 5:30 or 5:00 one of the one of it's on it's on the uh it's on the agenda the agenda was just posted today so you can get the zoom link off of that you can get the actual time um I'll tell you the exact time because it's on my calendar hold on it is 5:30 so join us and you can listen to the conversations and put your two cents for thing um all right once upon a time we talked about uh digitizing our termination ofli of ility form and uh Brian gengas uh and Logan Connell have said uh Logan oon said you really should do that through open.com and um I saw a mockup of how that would happen uh on Tuesday it's when I met that with Chris for the first time face well since we talked about significant issues Tuesday I had met him once before um I think that uh it's a great idea and my my one concern is if you're an individual homeowner who wants to do something in a house that's in or a building that's in the APD you have to register get into of the Software System that's used by contractors and people who are pulling building permits um that's not hard to do okay but that's still like an additional step so once you do that you know then you get into filling up our determination of uh applicability form and attaching um pictures you know plans whatever via that open goov website and I I would like to recommend that we go that route we would still have a piece of paper for somebody who doesn't want to choose to go that route um but I think that for the the future having that mechanism has a lot of value for us as reviewers or people who would ask uh for review you know citizens of the Town who would ask for the review and most importantly it then allows for documents and records to be retained not by an individual like me as chair or anyone else as an individual they will now be retained in a system that the town uses for a lot of documents conservation the conserv what Conservation Commission has gone through has gone through this process now and um according to Logan he says everybody even the people who are using it to apply for you know like uh notices of intent he says everybody seems to be really pleased doing it this way cool so is there any objection for me sitting down with Logan and taking this to the next step of implementation so one of the things that we will have to do is we'll have to change the design guidelines it says use open opengov do.com and and uh instead of uh you know we have to include that in the guidelines as an option it's not inter now so how does it so how does this work so they'll go to let's say I'm going to lunenberg website yeah I'm going it's like how to do whatever how to what I you know yeah so like on our like on our our website our web page for APD we have the forms you know which you have to now download print fill out by hand yeah yeah and upload and instead you'll click the link yeah they have the open link and you go to you go to a signin page or register page Y and then register sign in and that does it take you right to the okay yeah yeah so any objections I believe the historical commission has their demo delay they for on I think Brian did that for me yeah I think this is the way to go I mean my my only concern when I was talking to Logan on Tuesday I say I just I says like Builders love this this system you know because they're constantly you know falling for buildings I said but for someone who's going to do like a window replacement or do something that has you know requirement for a review it's probably going to be the only thing that they're doing this is you know so you're going to make them you know log into the system you know establish an account but it's not hard to do he showed me that it really it's pretty pretty easy it's not ased by any other means of doing anything nowadays of yeah you have to sign up for this you have to register you have to throw an email address so it's right in line with the digital AG the word I think I think even old dogs will get it you know the young people you know like anyone under the age of 65 they're they like you say they're all doing this now um so building permits go through there as well okay that's that's principally how it got started in the town building permit process they can pay for the like a builder can pay for the permit through that process and there's things that we need a determination of intent for that don't need building permits yeah like window replacement doesn't need a building permit right well there there are some things but the one thing that I really do like about this is that for anything that's significant and Logan demonstrated this is that if you were going to pull a building permit for any any building that's within the APD there's a big flag soon as you start soon as you get into that page it says you know here's my property there's a big flag it says APD so then what what the Building Commissioner would then know is where's the determination of applicability or the CTA before he issues the building perit and this this will not be linked together what happened before was that Brian would have to call me up and say I got a I got a request for a building permit if you guys looked at this and now now that'll be automatic if it has a workflow engine we could probably get it set up so that like it's we we have to like either say no no required or they has to get one before any build building that would be amazing yeah I mean so I think it's it's the way to go and and I thank Logan for taking the initiative to act because like Brian and I talked about this probably six months ago and I just didn't pursue it because I thought oh you know we really want a person is going to do one thing to have to go into the system it's great for Builders but for somebody it's like oneon-one but I think that the accountability that that happens once you do this you know now the records are where they need to be they're visible to the right kind of people and it's not people dependent right I guess could you Tony I would just mention if I may yeah um you talked earlier about the importance of chain of command so um that's important here too so it's all good it's it helps the residents of lunenberg and that's our goal our mission goal um but Brian and I are talking constantly about how we're going to uh implement this and um so where it it's there's just benefit and it sounds good and there's no drawback sure but we just need to kind of clear it with the powers it be keep everybody in the loop you know tell people what how it works and why and what we're doing what the overall operational strategic plan is this is part of a reor I agree with that and and I'm not sure who does Logan work for he is the planning board Administrative Assistant he's got a lot of technical skills and they're very valuable but um we we just need to make sure um and all this is good so far and Brian I are supporting it but we need to be aware of it and um so it has to be part of a bigger more holistic strategic approach and plan and that's what we're trying to ensure that this is all consistent with the longer range um Vision well you know I I felt bad for Logan because you he took over for marjerie and um when she retired but there was a big gap between when she retired and when he took over you know and he he told me that he was like I guess she left him like a you know a little booklet of things to do and uh what do we call those booklets wellam you know playbooks yeah playbooks so you know he was he was saying you know she's not here but I got her Playbook and I'm kind of trying to feel my way through this and of course you know um Adam Bernie was long gone and poor Logan was I think was basically sitting there relatively unguided and proba Bri that's not true Brian was um heavily involved in trying to keep the boundaries in place and so yeah I just uh you know as a new land use director trying to keep the operation you know sort of an overall um Mission driven type of exercise we just need you you mention the importance of chain of command and this is an issue here I I agree and uh you know in fact I think that I'm glad you participating in the conversation tonight because they would just save me a phone call for tomorrow or for next week because I do think that um you know I I knew when when when we were chatting there that you know these were things that Brian had talked to me about before you you ared you know Brian was wrestling with the fact that there wasn't a land use director but there was somebody in the office that was doing you know support for the planning board AKA um Logan and and then eventually Logan or uh Brian got formally tasked with those responsibilities and then Heather left I mean I think that uh I mean I think that there was you know some time for poor Logan to kind of drift around looking for who's my boss and what am I supposed to do you who's my daddy who am I working for but that's Anar um I have Brian was giving very clear and concise Direction ction so and that's what we're trying to remain consistent about here so that people stay within the their Lane and it's just important just so everybody has the same expectation when people take initiative I'm the first one to say do that that's great it's good you're doing that if it helps the residents of lunenberg and the boards committees and commissions go at it but we just need to be aware of it and and it needs to fit into the broader uh you know plan of um just making sure everything's efficient and consistent I agree okay um thanks for the input Chris yeah thank you anything else about the open gov uh open duck of process all right uh let's just do quickly the old business um status Town Hall ver repair projects uh the chimney work is the first thing they're going to work on that both Town Hall and a Ritter are under contract there was some question about whether the the low bidder for Ritter could actually do the work Carter brought him in sat him down and said this is what you got to do can you do it for that amount of money that you bid and he says yes I can so they issued the contract to them after having that conversation it was never the same type of conversation with the U uh Town Hall contractors both contracts have been signed sealed and delivered in terms of awards and uh Town Hall the first work it's going to start is on the chimneys and and Carter emailed me yesterday and said this is what's goingon to happen I replied back Richard based on your uh interest in being a support person for reviewing the work on the chimneys I says that you would be available um you know we had talked about this at our meeting I think back in December about there being some liability concerns that Brian genger is the Building Commissioner I expressed so I've given Carter your name and said you know if you have any questions about you know the chimneys you know you you're available as a on resource um the Ritter building the schedule for work has not been prepared and he did not know when that was going to start and what they would do initially and he was to have a meeting with Chris Ruth yesterday and I don't know whether that meeting happened or not because when I talked to Carter today by phone he didn't mention any updates and he told me via email that he was going to meet with Chris so my my uh my opinion is he probably didn't meet with him both those meetings did happen um did they really you know for your benefit yeah they did I I don't know I just know they did happen today so I wasn't involved but um there should be a development that you'll be aware of shortly I know the meetings happen with Brian and Carter and and Chris all right good all right so uh we'll wait to hear back from them on when the work's going to start here but Richard is he's an excellent Mason you I wanted to make sure that uh that Carter knew that he was available he he he he would be I think a great source of information as that work on those chimneys begins um Brooks house um the Brooks house is in the hands of the lunenberg municipal building design committee God knows when they're going to get to it I I have uh and that was by Design you know Michael Ray Jeff offered to do that to the select board and the select board said okay put that in your committee's workload um Michael Ray Jeff brought that up at the 16 December no actually I brought that up at the 16 December meeting and I said hey when are we going to deal with the Brooks house because the clock's ticking on a warrant for uh recommendation for the Maytown meeting he goes oh we'll get to it you know so I brought it up at the G January 6 meeting too and I'm going to bring it up at the January 22nd meeting because quite honestly there's so much on the plate for the lunenberg municipal building design committee by the time we see the committee have enough time to deal with the Brooks house it's going to be passed the 17th of March that's my prediction and I expressed my concern about that to uh Carter I talked to him about that today and said that I would rather see no recommendation go forward at the maytime meeting than one that was not properly and appropriately vetted and we're on that track right now properly and not appropriately vetted so uh I would yeah just a comment I mean I don't uh I I would prefer the apdc not grant them permission to not have the proposal prepared on time I mean not I think they they need to have a good this is not a heavy lift like their job we you know we scale it we we gave him extra time to like do a little research figure out some boundaries like um it's something they could probably kick over to Chris um CH you want to address that one Chris that is within your Bailey I'll put I will put you on a hot speak pass by me again I yeah pass that one by me again so so Chris there was a a warrant article that passed overwhelmingly town meeting that we requested to be placed on the warrant that basically and and we can send you the presentation that was made to town meeting or we probably video of it or whatever uh but basically are you familiar with the Brooks house yep okay so the The Proposal was to to for the select board to take whatever steps were needed to present a like actionable to put together an actionable plan to uh including whatever lot lines you know whatever legal and financial or things need to be done so that the Brooks property could be put up for auction to a for private sale basically yeah and so thank you and uh so can I um ask for the the board to allow me to talk to Carter on Tuesday I have a meeting scheduled with him is going to be on our agenda and get just have a discussion get some direction about how I'm able to proceed because Tony and I talked about this and I was you know really excited to to help and then I was told [Music] um just wait for further Direction so let me talk to uh have that conversation Tuesday and then I'll jump in as as as often and as much as I can um because I've done several projects like that and I would love to work on that uh I can tell you what he's going to tell you because he already told me today he go I don't think we have time to do it ton and I don't think Chris has time to do it well let I I propose let's let Chris and Carter make that determination I mean it's not really optional the what I'm tell is is that Carter Carter has already told him that once told who that Carter has told Chris the select board wants the lunenberg municipal building design committee to do this work on the Brooks house okay I mean I don't know why it's it's pretty much like I I agree with you it's technical is is this really Technical and legal work it's not policy work Nathan I agree with you I completely my role you know I don't take offense in anything but um I'm offered and I'm available to support okay good go right ahead I already know the answer though I may ping Michael raus see if I can have a see what his thoughts are and maybe see if there's opportunity to lubricate this in that direction okay all right um you know what we got somebody else hold on I haven't been paying attention I'm going to let iPad too join us iPad too yeah I wonder who that is um all right so I'm sorry for not seeing that sooner uh it's one of the things I wish that Zoom was more interactive um okay so status of 763 Mass Avenue anything new to report Richard uh nothing at all I haven't heard anything about it same same same same old same old yeah 50 Main Street anything new with the owner down there I spoke to Rob Bowen um just recently he he told me I should talk to he talked to his the other uh member of the found Association which is David dval um and so I need to get in touch with David dval now so I just again I just talked to him recently and I'll I'll follow up with David Deval okay um I I I did you know impress upon him that it would be good to have this have a you know we need to move this forward so you know whatever um Jennifer Sanderson member of the historical commission's family uh were members of that church originally in the uh 1840s um and her um family had donated stained glass window to that church at the time um so it has their name on it so um she was going to stop in and talk with them and um give input from the historical commission okay to see if there was any way that could be moved forward also there's um preservation grants did you see that on list Tony for um historic structures on the national register yeah um so that might be a possibility for um are you on list Ser uh you guys talked about it before I don't know that I am but I think you might have sent out the information to do it we did yeah um so it was on list Sur so there there are possibilities of Grants and uh they come around every year around this time they open up for um they open up for uh applications are those federal state or private that would be Federal it's on that building's on the national Reg cool I'll mention that when I speak with him are you on that list serve Chris the Massachusetts historic preservation list serve it's a yeah that's a great that's a great source of information yeah always have that it absolutely is and um trans you know experience and wealth of information which is not necessarily true about planning list serve and other resources but that's a really good one I agree yeah okay um we still have our owner notification which I we put that on hold and then along with our brochure and public Outreach and communication document um I'm going to anything else from old business anybody want one thing from the historical commission the um we met with I met with the cemeter commission and Carter don't know if I had said this at the last meeting um concerning goodr uh cemetery plot that uh the historical commission is involved with uh restoring it um that project is going to happen in the spring the uh histor uh Cemetery commission is going to supply Field Stone I'm going to uh as a chairman of the historical commission going to provide supervision um and volunteers Maybe uh Riley might want to be a volunteer and learn how to uh if you haven't already to um to build a dry Fieldstone wall I would love that we're going to do that and restore the existing Stones uh clean them uh repair them reset them um and provide a gate uh so that that plot will be in circled and then it'll be protected in the future also um Express the uh the thought that a historical soci uh sign there denoting the history of the uh the people interred there would um I always go on the premise that knowledge brings awareness so if people see a sign in they stop and read it and then usually they just drive them by not paying attention um and then they know what the place is and then they have more of a a there's more knowledge about it so there's more of an opportunity that people are going to protect that and watch out for it in the future that cemetery plot was uh was mint up until about 20 years ago from the time I was a teenager driving by there was always perfect and then 20 years ago it was desecrated the stones were tipped over and broken and it's been that way since so um this this the one up by Jerry H yeah yeah okay um so that'll happen in the spring and then the uh the anold L cemetery plot on West Street terrorist another that was desecrated and uh and lost for a number of years um and the town uh the town authorized uh the DPW authorized um ground radar so they located the people that were interred there so we now know where that plot is but it's on that Pro whole area was developed in the 50s um so that Cemetery was knocked down uh before the property was sold we we think and so it's now part of another person's property um so and that is um the town is looking at taking that parcel back through iminent domain um so that and then once that's once the that's out of the town's property again then that Memorial will be set up there um to the people that are buried there I think that's it okay anybody else got anything um we're at the point of the agenda it says closing public comment does iPad to have any closing public comment you're on mute and if you don't then I'll ask Chris do you have any comments to kind of round the thank you for joining us appreciate that I really enjoyed it and look forward to being at every meeting it was great discussion I appreciate it okay so our next meeting uh scheduled for 13th February I promise you I will not forget Sunday agenda to get posted this time we will truly have a meeting on the 13th of February uh one other comment that I might make I don't know whether anybody's been watching the recent development regarding time manager but the time the select board voted yesterday to uh enter into contract negotiations with um Jennifer such and she has a hyphenated name but her uh bio along with the other two candidates that they interviewed on Tuesday night uh is attached to the agenda from Tuesday night's select board meeting so if you want to see who the town is proposing to hire and what her background is she was the uh Town Administrator or town manager at West bston um she's a of the three candidates she uh the comment that I heard uh from the discussions that took place yesterday I watched that meeting today was that she really did a lot of research on lunenberg and came uh to the interview with a huge amount of uh of knowledge about who we are what the T you know what what kind of issues are and U so it wasn't a unanimous vote um it was for in favor of General for want to get one opposed um and uh you can watch the meeting if you want to see who that one oppos was but but I think it's really good you know that the town is uh you I think Carter's been a great find for the town yeah even though he's been acting in an inner capacity he's a wise guy you know and I don't mean that derogative derogatively I mean he is a wise person and I think he's done a good job of filling in uh under some pretty uh you know trying circumstances and uh you know I think that he did everything the time could have asked an inter time manager to do and um he actually hired you correct Chris yes yes yeah that was a very professional process yeah he made he made your offer okay so um I think we're going to have a time I I'd be surprised if we don't uh have a Time manager soon so it's it's good to see that happen and then Carter will fade off into the sunset and head back to New New Hampshire for his next enm town manager assignment sometime in 2025 all right uh any other comments uh we have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second all right all those in favor say I and we'll see everybody on the 13th of February thanks Chris folks take care Chris