I called the shot. Started doing like Bill Marty and stuff. That's funny. Okay, it's uh 7:31. We're going to wait just a moment. We have a quum, but we're going to wait just a moment for see if Richard McGrath shows up. Oh, and I hear
footsteps. That's great. All righty. Hello, Richard. Nice to see everybody today. Uh let me you know one of the things that I'm gonna try and get done you like when you do an agenda half of it's like gobbly book associated with the can language
and then I got to read this stuff which I think is crazy. Um so my one of my tasks is to figure out can we get by without having to read all this stuff and shorten our agenda sheets. In accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law, be advised this meeting is being recorded
and will be broadcast of the Lindberg public access channel. The recording of this meeting will be available on Len Public Access YouTube channel within 24 hours. Following information is provided to citizens to join the Zoom meeting. View meeting insights with Zoom AI
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of meetings to aid in the subsequent preparation of meeting minutes and that AI companion is activated immediately upon launching the Zoom application. You are hereby notified that this AI technology may capture audio prior to the start of the meeting and or
following the conclusion of the meeting. Participants via Zoom may use raise the hand feature to request to speak uh at the discretion of the chair. Um we may add some topics uh and we may change
the com public comment period. The agenda lists all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken because of the discussions. Not all items listed may in fact be discussed and all items not listed may also be brought up for
discussion to the extent presented by open meeting. So uh with that get started. Uh there is no members of the public with us and there are no members of the public online with us. So, uh,
we, uh, we have received the meeting minutes from William. Thank you very much for doing those. Once again, I've looked at them that I told him that prior to your arrival, Nathan and Richard, that it was a perfect set of meeting minutes. I saw no need to make changes on my part, but uh, I'll look
for a motion to approve the 10 July 2025 meeting minutes, and then if there's any comments, we'll hear those and then we'll do a vote. So, is there a motion? Uh motion to approve the meeting minutes. Nathan has approved. Motion has has made
a motion for approval. Second. Second. William has second. Any other comments about the meeting minutes? No. All right. Um no other comments. Uh you know, technically I'm supposed to do a roll call vote um since we're on Zoom.
Uh William, uh you're a yay or nay? Yay. Uh Nathan Lockwood. Uh yay. and Richard McGrath and Tony Skellenbury myself says yay. So those meeting minutes have been approved. There's no correspondence.
Um determination of applicability for three main street window replacement. Uh the one business one of the business items that we have to vote on today. Uh has anybody looked at the department deter
determination of applicability for the windows at three main street? Where's Three Main Street? It's the building over there that has the uh grocery store, convenience store in it. Um,
so I received um the form from the building owner u Lindenburgg Realy Trust uh Philip uh our city Okano and uh they're replacing the windows um the
multiple wooden divided light windows uh in that complex um before coming to the meeting and I I went over and looked at uh that complex X uh has numer has already gone through numerous window replacements and I'd say probably 75% of
the windows are relatively new. They're all vinyl. You know, they're the false divided light uh windows. And he's basically going to replace those uh individual wooden pane windows that are single single glass uh single pane
windows with um new vinyl windows made by Mackie. And uh the cement looks I mean they look like they're substantial windows. Um you know I'd say given the fact that u the uh historic fabric of the building has already been
significantly mod modified by the replacement of windows previously that we ought to go ahead and approve the windows that he's proposed to submit. So, any questions about the the the uh the DOI or the D do the DOA
do determination of applicability. So, so if we vote, he doesn't have to do Yeah, I know. Uh that's Yeah, that's good acronym. Um did you I I Yeah, I mean I'm don't have
a lot of questions. Highly likely to vote through this. Just out of curiosity, did you send I did I sent I sent that in an email to you all. Okay. You know, one one of the issues uh Let me see when I sent that.
Yeah. Yeah. I think I actually sent it yesterday. Really? Yeah. I think letter specs. Okay. I think I see letters and now I
see specs. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I don't I don't have any questions. Thanks for sending it. Yeah. Yeah. It's I think this is pretty slam dunk. So, is there a motion to approve? Make a motion to approve window
replacement. Okay. Second. Second. William second after Richard moved. Any other further comments or discussion items? All right. Uh once again, a roll call vote. All those in favor of the motion say I. William. I. Ar.
Hi. And myself says I. So that's approve. And what I'll do is I'll sign the determination of applicability. What I am going to do is I'm going to um take the the the paper copy that he scanned and sent to to me and I tried to
encourage him to use the open gov.com process, but he didn't want to do that. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to go ahead and scan that, put it in opengv.com. Um, and then that will be the key for
Brian Genris to then give him his building permit when the work begins. So, we really got to start I mean he's he's a longtime resident or a longtime building owner, but we really got to start encouraging people to use upg.com. Yeah.
All right. So, um I will we have three days for him to hear from us. Um what I was going to do is after tonight's meeting, I'll just email him and say was approved. He was going to come. I says I don't I don't see any need for you to come and uh this is too easy for us.
Okay. So that that action item is complete. Um the next action item or next current business item uh is also an action item. Um we had a meeting of the Lunberg Municipal Building Design Committee
at the Select Board meeting uh in July. And as you may remember, um, at our July meeting, we took a vote that would recommend to the select board that there be formal representation from this committee on the the future
activity associated with the Lunberg Municipal Building Design Committee. Um, as it turns out, uh, I participated in those discussions not as a formal member because I'm not,
um, but even before I had the chance to say under the report of other boards and committees, the select board um, heard from all of the me all the current members of the Lmberg Municipal Building Design
Committee and then they provided feedback to the committee. And uh one of the first comments was made uh prior to me saying, "Hey, the APDC voted to ask you to put us on the committee was select board member uh Renee Mk said and APDC be represented on
this committee as we move forward." Um but when she said that, I says, "Well, great." Because we were I was going to deliver that as a recommendation from the APDC. I said, "We did not identify
uh who that person would be." I says, "Now that I know that you want that to happen at our August meeting, um I'll seek um you know, identification of who that APDC member will be." So, I'm looking for a motion to approve one of
us to be a member of the Lindenburgg Municipal Building Design Committee. um and a vote on that motion and then I will deliver that information back to the current chair which is David Black. Um I I will not hesitate to say that I
really want to be a member of the Lenberg Municipal Building Design Committee and I would hope that there would be a move and and approval that identify me as a representative from the from the committee set. Any any comments, questions before I ask for a
motion? Um just a quick question. So just just a recap. So the select board said that they are going to create a slot for our committee. Yeah. And we just have to identify who it is.
Identify who it is and agree to be represent. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. I was really encouraged by the fact that we I didn't even have to get around to saying, "Hey, there ought to be a representative." They on their own they said there ought to be a representative this committee. So, okay.
All right. Is there is there a motion motion to approve a PTC member to committee? Okay. And who that who will that be? Uh chair. Okay. Is there is there a second? All right. Uh any further discussion?
All right, roll. All those in favor say I. W. I. Okay. I, Richard. And I also vote I thank you and I really look forward to working on this committee representing our our point of view and I think that uh it was long overdue.
Yeah. Okie dokie. Um before we get into um the old business, let me let me just talk about two other things uh that I mentioned in that email that I sent to you. The master plan
steering committee is alive and and and well thanks to the leadership of Duffy. Um she has turned that whole master planning process uh loose from what it had been. I mean the
contract is 2 and a half years of running actually um more than that. In fact, the contract was supposed to be complete one January 2025 and because of the quorum issues, it's
woefully behind its projected completion data. But Kim has done a fantastic job of getting things organized and moving things forward. And um Kim Kim Duffy is she and what's her role? She is now the current chair of the master plan staring committee.
Okay. She's a a res a resident volunteer. Yeah. Okay. Got you. Yeah. She u she's she's really done a fantastic job. So where we are in the process today is we've identified probably a 100
recommendations that are clustered within um what will probably be eight goals of this master plan. And um through the discussions of led by Kim uh
in July, we've identified what committees have should have an impact or a perspective on those about 100 recommendations.
and a spreadsheet's been created that has by committee recommendations and I've uh I just recently received the spreadsheet
for the APDC and I've shared that with you Richard I sent you the historical commissions spreadsheet and when you look at the spreadsheet you'll you'll look at it and you'll see um green columns and those columns
represent questions that we need to have input back from us, input back from the historical commission, input back from the conservation commission, so on and so forth. Um there are 40 approximately 40 boards and committees
and commissions that are getting those spreadsheets. And some have a lot of items that they have to review. Like for example, the planning board, as you might guess, has a whole bunch of items that we're looking for the planning board to formally say, "Yes, we agree with that
recommendation. No, we don't. Here's some of the problems we see with that recommendation." So on and so forth. We only have a couple and they're related to creating a time green space uh along Memorial Drive. um
uh as a part of town facilities um and it because it's in the APD it's something that you know we're being asked to look at now other committees are also being asked to look at that like the select board like the planning board I think parks was asked to look at that because we're creating some new
space and then I there's one other item that's on that spreadsheet and what I would what I'd like for you know you all to do is to make sure that you look at open up that spreadsheet, look at it, and then be prepared to bring back some
feedback. And and what I'll do between now and um our meeting in September is that I will fill out a draft of the responses. There's like I think five or six columns we have to provide feedback
to. I think two specific items, two specific recommendations. I'll draft the language that I think that we should vote on and then deliver back to the master plan steering committee by the 1 of October. So, I'll do a draft and I'll send that to you.
But when we gather together in September, I want us to vote on on that language. I want us to say this is what this is how we view the recommendation and this is what what input we want to provide back to the master plan steering committee. And Richard, since you're the
chair of the historical commission, um, as now as a member of the master plan steering committee, you know, since you're here, I'd like for you to do the same thing with, you know, the the tab that's associated with the historical commission. And and we're doing that
with about a total of 40 committees. um copies have been sent uh to the time manager to get time manager staff input which I think is a huge issue because one of the things that we have problems
with is that we don't have a planner and if we had a planner the planner would have been providing input on the recommendations throughout the process but Adam Bernie's gone Chris Riley's gone and the town currently doesn't have anybody they have a contract employee
who's on just the bare bones of permit reviews and things like that, but Jennifer Warren, the town manager, has not allowed her to do anything related to the master plan. So, it's it's complicated. And I think that one of the
reasons why it became complicated is when the master plan steering committee was created by the planning board back in the summer of 2023. They identified 15 spots, 15
organizations to be on this master plan steering committee with the idea that by putting a lot of people on the committee, you get all this input and then as the process is moving along, you're getting the benefit of all this input from all these different organizations. The flaw to that was
volunteers from the committees that were identified are already busy. Like I'll give you an example finance committee and you know those finance committee members they have a lot of meetings and and by adding the master plan steering committee role
to them this created another meeting and the end result was people like them were not showing up for meetings and we had almost one year of no meetings because the quorum couldn't be met. Kim to her credit I don't know whether you all knew
this or not but I think this is a very interesting point the quorum does not have to be more than 50%. The law allows the organization which is establishing the committee and in this case it was the planning board
they can decide what the quorum is. So while the membership kind of has remained the same 15 the quorum is now five and um like same for the select board you know if they create us you know as an organization they can set
what our quorum is now select generally makes the quorum something greater than 50%. You know so if you have five people you got to have three to have to have a quorum. Um, so Kim pointed that out to the to the planning board and they
bought off on that and uh in uh their May meeting and since that's happened we've had no trouble meeting quum. We've never reached eight people sitting around the table which is what would have been required with a normal uh more than 50%.
In fact, eight represents the a a committee size larger than every committee in the every board committee or commission in the town except for two. So that's that's why that was such a huge challenge. Yeah. Yeah. But so take a look at that email.
If you can't open the file, send me an email. Let me know. It's it the spreadsheet. The bigger the screen you have, the easier it is to read the uh the spreadsheet. So, you want us to take in like the full spreadsheet or just the the two items assigned to us?
The one that's been sent to us. Now, if you want two, one or two? I I think there's two. Yeah. Um the one thing that that if you want to open up the tab that shows all 100 recommendations, you can do that. When you look at the screen, Nathan, you'll see at the bottom of the spreadsheet,
you'll see um APDC. Yep. Okay. And then to the left of that, you see master. If you open up master, it'll bring up the entire spreadsheet. Got it. You know. Yeah. So, okay. Yeah. So, I mean the APDC ones just sort of talk this under the goal of
support g community gathering spaces. It says assess develop town green. Yeah. To it says to between TC Pacios adult activity center for outdoor community space. So, I guess really we're talking about like between kids kingdom and the passio building.
Yeah. Okay. Um, and there's a list of several relevant committees for that. Yes. Um, we're not the only ones looking at that. Gotcha. And then under foster safe and resilient
town infrastructure, there's develop a town center planes small businesses, walkability, and community communal gathering spaces. Yeah. And once again, that's because of its potential impact on the APD. Gotcha.
Okay. I'll, like I said, I'll I'll draft language for those respective columns. Um, and then when we get together on in our at our September meeting, we can discuss. I want you to look at those. When I get done posting them, I'll send
you an email and says, "Hey, go look." And then when we get together in September, I want to be I want to vote on it. Say, "Okay, we and we can word submit that, you know, get on my palette. I've written it up, but we'll we'll uh send back to the master plan steering committee a cons a consolidated
appro like one of the things that we were concerned about is that we don't want like Nathan sending back uh you know comments, Richard sending back comments, right? That what we want is we want committee response or individual respons.
Yeah. Right. Plus, you know, plus if you look at how many committees, like if you open up the master tab, you'll see there's a lot of lot of input being requested, a lot of input. And one of the things that we got to deal with is how how can we manage that that input,
you know, so not having individual responses, but having committee response is key to the master plan steering committee's evaluation of this input. Um, one one general comment that I'll make is that uh there's been concern that
maybe there hasn't been enough of uh individual citizen response to the master plan process. But when you look at how many people have provided input over public meetings, meetings, you know, input from
surveys that were done, we have 800 data points from individuals who said, "Let's do this," which is a lot for a a process like this. Um, and the consultant who's doing the work said, "Sorry, 800 data points or 800 people?"
8 800 people people. Okay. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, that's not ins. Yeah. And uh so and and I think fundamentally what's even more important is that what these recommendations are
like what what the a goal there will be eight goals with supporting recommendations against those eight goals. We looked at the kind of a draft of what that those eight goals look like last night as a matter of fact and they all make sense. you know, they they are
common sense goals for the town and uh the recommendations um you know, fit creating a master plan for Lunberg. And I guess like one of the comments that I made last night was, you know, hey, we
got good input, we got good recommendations that make sense for Lunenburgg. And one of the ways to kind of prove that was to take uh the approach of we're an we're not an urban area, you know, where you know, we're
not Cambridge and you know, we're not Westboro, you know, places that are more, you know, cityified or more urban urbanized. And um we don't have things like discussions about new wastewater treatment plants or new waste water or
new water treatment plants as part of a master plan. We don't have we don't have a master plan that's going to talk about, you know, a better connection to the subway system or the NBTA system. Now, we have infrastructure. We have an
infrastructure component, but it doesn't talk about those kinds of things because we're not an urban area. You know, it's the kind of things that we're talking about is how do we preserve farmland? You know, how do we how do we create what's known as the missing middle of
housing? We have a lot of single family housing. We have a lot of farmland. How do we create, you know, a little denser housing in the town of Lunenburgg to match what, you know, the state wants to see, you know, under things like the
MBTA uh act, the NBA MBTA housing act, you know. So, I think that the good news of the the planning process has been a lot of input input that makes sense and now we just got to kind of make sure that everybody gets behind it and understands what the master plan might
call for. So, have they have they talked about doing any type of like social media outreach to see to get I mean if they wanted more feedback a poll on Facebook on one of the hunter pages. What what we're going to what what we
discussed last night is that we're going to do um after we gather up all the input from the committees um we're going to create the draft and the deadline is one October. you know, we got to have this stuff back from all these committees by the 1 of October. And um
the consultant's already begun the draft. You know, he he's anticipating some changes, but he thinks that, you know, what we're going to get is concurrence with the recommendations. Might kick a few out, might add a couple, but what we're going to do is we're going to have um a highle report
at special time meeting in November says it'll say this is the plan. And then we're going to have um we're going to have but prior to that we're going to have one more public meeting at smoke stacks most likely that hasn't been confirmed. We haven't had a
chance to talk to the business center, but from October one before and prior to special time meeting with a high level presentation, we're going to have one more whack at saying to community members, we got input from we got input from committees. We allowed
input from you, but we're going to give you town residents one more chance to look at this. And I'd say that William, that's that's a great suggestion. And I know that we have a couple master plan steering committee members that are in charge of social media. And I will I
will make sure that we talk about that prior to the uh to the master that last final public meeting at a gathering spot like smoke stacks roers that that we really emphasize that. So I'll make sure she and they'll capture both sides of your audience that meeting report and catch
the people that read the papers and then you'll catch the social media of the younger generation. Right. Right. That's a that's a good thing. We and we didn't talk about that last night. No, part of it is um Kim has to get concurrence from the owner of Smoke Stacks that she'll let us come
down to her place. Um I think the meeting is scheduled for well we're tenatively scheduling that public meeting is the 22nd of October. We just don't know where yet. So um any other questions? Yeah. Could you do you mentioned that you would draft uh something for these
two goals? Do you want to give us a preview? Have you thought about what you're going to draft? Um, I think that like there there's nuts and bolts questions like do we have a bylaw? You know, yes, we do. We have a bylaw
that talks about how that work would have to be done because it's going to take place in the APD, you know, that's I mean, and is there anything else um like which is like anything else you want to think about? Read read the headings. No, I've I've read them. I was
just wondering. Yeah. Do we want to just maybe do a quick preliminary just get folks thought that as you're preparing to draft that? Yeah. Because we only have a cycle time's really long here. It's like um you just go around the room. So, want to read the heading?
Okay. So the heading is so goal support community gathering spaces recommendation from public feedback assess town green between TC Pacios and the adult activity center for outdoor community space. So we're really talking
like that big patch of park or you know grass between the patios and the kids. Yeah. Um and yeah there's a bunch of relevant committees. So I guess maybe we want to open that up just quick go around the
one get initial thoughts on that just to give you some input so that both so we know what you're thinking and we know if we have any thoughts here. Yeah, I'm going to actually bring up my uh my spreadsheet. Hold on. Hold on. I got to stay connected.
All right. So, um we had the two under support community gathering spaces. We have the town green issue and then um the second one is develop a town center plan that encourages small business walkability and communal gathering
spaces. So, let's talk about um the TC Pasio space. Uh, it says, "Is this controlled by your board's bylaws and policies?" And I think the answer to that question is yes, because it's within the APD. Do we have a bylaw
policy on this already? And we have we have our chapter 113 bylaw. So, I I would list that. It says, "If yes, provide source bylaw." So, I have to identify that. How does the recommendation align with your
committee's current goals and priorities? So, this is really where we start to get into some editorial comment. I think that um I've actually I've actually been in the process of getting input from town citizens. I've
been very vocal about the creation of that Memorial Drive avenue as kind of a town ring. And the reason why is because we kind of have a time grain where the gazebo is. I mean that if if you were
going to say where's the time green loomberg? I think most people would probably say it's where the gazebo is. But the problem with that is the gazebo was probably an appropriate place for it. It was probably an appropriate place
for it to be before cars, you know, and I think that that actually is where the liberty tree was, you know. I think that's one of the things that, you know, and those go back to, you know, like the 1700s, you know, but that's not a place where
any gathering takes place today. In fact, the concerts used to be held in the gazebo, but they moved them because you couldn't hear the music because of traffic noise. The other problem is because you have a lot of traffic on
Lemonster Road and you have a lot of tra traffic on Lancaster Shirley and you have a lot of traffic on Whiting. That's not a place to put the public right in the middle of now. you know, so where has the town been doing its gathering? Most recently, like
the band concerts, they're in this space that we're talking about now. um the uh business development activity that took place this past spring. It was along Memorial Drive and during um homecoming
for the schools, the Lions Club, you know, the teen club, they all set up and they do things along Memorial Drive, you know, so it's kind of a na it's become kind of a natural area. No, I think one
of the impacts that um creating that space needs, you know, need the people need to be aware of is that um do you still need a a way to get emergency vehicles to TC Pasio to Eagle House? You know, how does how do you do
that? Um you know, how do you make sure that you complement the activities at the library and not create, you know, a bottleneck for the library? you know, we have a playground. Um, we have a playground at that location. You know,
does that stay? If it stays, how do you allow people to, you know, get to it? Those types of things. And I think those are the issues. But it has become the de facto town green, how do you make it better? So, that's that's one of the things that I I would want to address is
to say it kind of is already, so let's make it look even better. One of the things that u that the consultant has already talked about is um instead of having a paved road in front of TC Pasio between TC Basio and the back side of
library and a books house is that you use um these grass pers you know so that you open color block. Yeah. So you can drive if you have to bring an emergency vehicle down there but when you look that looks like a green grassy area you know. So, those
are the kinds of things, you know, that that have already been um discussed. Maybe just keep the keep or upgrade the gates that are currently there to keep the traffic from flowing away anyway. Right. Or you create different ways, but the gates are ugly. Yeah, the gates are ugly. I would probably do some type of like nicer
balls. Right. Right. you know, so that so that cars can't only the right kind of vehicles go down there, you know, and it becomes a so um it says what's the imple implement implementing this recommendation? Are
there uh any potential unintended consequences to this? I think the one thing that you know I I would address in here is to say that whatever we do here can have an adverse impact on the uh on the boards, which I don't think it will. And then
Brooks House could actually be included if that becomes a place where they could get food or beverages or well it's zoned for. You know what's interesting? Have you have you been inside TC Pasio where the Lions have their Yeah, my kids I used to drop my kids off
at daycare time. I mean that cafeteria has some really nice equipment already in it and and you know if you actually did create thing like that as a time green you you have great support facilities still functional.
Yeah. Yeah. and you know and I think that that's one of the issues that you know so I guess that would be one of the considerations would be how far do we push the green where then it does become doesn't make TC passio become obsolete
in the functions that serving now as far as the afterchool care where parents park along right that road and I think they do some like basketball stuff there in the winter to get the kids active so how far down that road. Do we do the
green space when we're not then limiting that to get cars in and out? There is there is a solution to that. Oh, you're right. Yeah, they could add parking into like the front there. Or better yet, chop a piece of TC pass that's unwanted and unused and costing
the town a fortune to heat. Get rid of that. Right. Right. Get rid of that and then create your access way behind DC passers. Right. and link that to the drive that goes up past the middle high school. So I mean with both this really with
both these so I think that's thanks for the context and that's really helpful. Uh I think in terms of of what you said what seems most relevant to the APDC would be a question like would we support moving the the ban st or whatever the
ban standard to that green I think right yeah so yeah what do what do you guys think of that because I don't I I've not thought about that I mean it is in its correct historic location um the gaz Yeah. Yeah.
I probably wouldn't move it. I mean, between the Christmas tree being there and the fact that every single kid in Lenberg goes there for their prom pictures. I mean, that's that's really what it's used for. Yeah. But those are two isolated incidents
that besides the prom day, you're not going to have a lot of traffic and foot traffic trying to get to that gazebo. where if we try to do summer concerts, we're just adding a whole bunch of people walking across Lster Road where people don't always pay attention, go to Speedmore, right? So, I I think those are really
good points, but I think like so our position might be like I think it's a really good perspective. I think you can make the case well if people get used to it, they start doing the prop picture there, they start doing whatever they're we didn't have enough time and blood to water the tree of liberty anyway, so you know, we might as well.
Uh so uh but but I think we might also take a position of you know what we'd be okay either way leave it there for the reason see how the public feels and like like would we dig our heels in as APDC if if the public was like oh awesome I'd love to take my profile pictures in a
bigger space and not get run over or no don't move that you know I think we can go I personally anyways I go out yeah somebody didn't grow up here I mean I'm not married to where the location I just think usually people are fixated on that piece of like that's where I took my problem picture. That's where I
wanted the doctor to take care of. Right. Yeah. But in this case, like the structure I hear what you're saying. So, and it may be that most people feel that way and it maybe that most people are like that' be way better, you know, I feel I'd be more likely to go if I didn't have to worry about that
mob scene over there with the roads and whatever. But from standpoint, I think the structures preserve like kind of like our base like the structures still within the historic district and whatever. Like I could live You know, it wouldn't be something we'd fight. It wouldn't be something we fight.
Exactly. It's like the as long as the structure is still involved like this is exactly the kind of input that we need to provide. Richard, what's your thought? It's not the original gazebo really necessary to be there. There was a time when it wasn't there
really before there was a gazebo. In the 1700s, it wasn't there. That's m that's like the late 1800s when they started that. Well, the town does definitely have a history of moving things, putting things
on some logs and rolling them around. Yeah. Like down home, right? So you you would you would you have a problem if it got moved to say No, I'd rather see it moved. I think it's a safety hazard with people kids and stuff going
and stuff. There's a lot of traffic. Um there's a lot of people that drive fast through there. Yeah. You know, like the Christmas function is is only safe because they close Lemonster Road, you know, and uh put a bunch of fire
trucks, you know, in the way so that people can't drive down Lmonster Road. They have to use Lancaster to Whiting and then they make that left-hand turn if they want to go to Lster. But they don't do that for prompts, you know, blockade like the economic cost of Levenster wouldn't
just trying to make that that current people stick their front ends way too far. This last picture. So the only other like APDC thing from what you're talking about like the other I mean it doesn't sound like it says between the patios
and the so obviously they're not going to screw with the senior center which is a historic building is wellmaintained and well used and whatever. It's really probably one of the better better higher utilization facilities in the
actually the park is pretty high util it's not historic kids kingdom I mean not 50 years plus I mean it's historic in the sense of why it was there I don't think we want to mess with that because that would be weird you know like it's not a DC issue that's a town issue but like it's got its own history
and the kids club is highly used too at the corner the kids club is highly used there but that's really not the scope because it says senior under the passio. Well, the second one was the walking to the business. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Two. True. So the only other historic structure here is the passio itself
which you were talking about modification like I personally think our position you know we may be asked to take a provide guidance of what we think from a historic perspective on the past and my feeling is I don't I I would propose that
we would support whatever like you know keep part of it raise the whole thing like I don't you know maybe there's something nice we could do about keeping a few of the the pretty stones in the front to, you know, whatever gets incorporated there. But like I don't I
don't think the APDC is going to die on the hill of preserving the Pacios in the way that we might have with the primary school. just it's not I don't I don't see I I think that Pacio has a lot of potential as a component of of a time green because the front part you know
like the wings the wings you know like were the class that may be true right so I'm just saying from a historic perspective that's from a utilitarian perspective like our our function would merely be as the APC so just putting our APC hat on it's like can we mess with
the Pacio structurally or can we not mess with Pacios in my personal position as a member the ABC and we have a would be that we vote and I would encourage us to say do whatever you think is best based on other factors like you like what you're suggesting
technically it doesn't meet our age requirement the date of the school it's like it's getting really close we're getting close the master plan is 10 years so we should provide guidance yeah because within that 10 year period it does become under our purview right
now it's not so yeah yeah so I do think it would be it would be helpful to provide that guidance so that they don't have to deal with that later you know like but I mean taking off my APDC hat I won't say a lot about this but
yeah I do think that that is an interesting parcel to use for that there's two things that go through my head is one is and this applies to the other the other one like the just to quickly the other one's about the walkable whatever village district like
The first this actually is a major if this something were done here that would be addressed in a major way the second one but the biggest issue with the town center right now is just the there's two things not a lot of people
there's there's not a lot of foot traffic and for car traffic that's like going to stop and do anything and there's not a lot there's very low population in the center because there's low density and so my only concern concern is that applies like this is not an APDC concern
is that applies to the patios. My personal opinion is I would love to see like a eightstory mixeduse building occupy the entire footprint of the patios and bring actual people to town south and I think then it could start to
support economically some things that would attract other people in and you would see people on the screen. I walk four or five times a week down this corridor and it's beautiful. Like I feel like it's like that Twilight Zone episode. The guy
who's in the bank safe when the neutron bomb drops, right? And he's like there's nobody. He bucks out. There's nobody left. He's like great. I'm going to be able He lives read. He's going to read it all he wants. But then he breaks his glasses. But I haven't broken my glasses yet. It's like I I mean I like PE but I actually like people. But it's like I
feel like when I'm walking through town center people I walk by the whole time. What's up? Yeah. Or nobody depending on the time of day and it's usually very few people. Like it's exciting when there's sports stuff going on. See them. So all I would say is you can improve the out of this. There's no people
there. It's just going to be me walking around at the neutral bound. There was if you look at the master list, you'll see one of the things that uh was talked about as perhaps the town acquiring the property that's currently owned by Lunberg Rail Trust. the
building we just talked about which the you know the like Bad Larry's Yeah, Bad Larry's uh you know the convenience store that's all owned by Wait, do we need Why do we need another building? like we have sold.
Well, what they're saying is is that what what comments and what came out of that was there could be more there could be more businesses in that complex and you know uh that to create to create more vitality.
Yeah, but it's it's kind of the wrong side of the equation. It's still dependent on having people. You need to man you can't just add more supplies. You can't just build it and it'll come. You actually need people to come. Like you would want to do store funds with the profits of all. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean we could do that like it's why take like that the two
most vi the most vibrant things are like the boys besides the schools which people have to go to it's the boys and girls club or whatever it's called now the adult activity center and that convenience store right why mess with that like in the
times everything else is like oh the thing we need to do is own the thing we don't own already like no like we we need to build highdensity high density multi mixeduse stuff where the primary school was and where the past years is now and that will then
there will be people there like but right now there are no people and we're not going to it I mean I don't see what changes that unless we get like Taylor Swift to sit sit on a bench outside okay those are all great comments so when I when I do my draft I'll keep
those Richard do you have anything we probably get sick of her after a few weeks we probably get sick of her after a few weeks very fast. Anything else from you on that? All right. So, I'll do a draft and I have some good feedback from you all to do that hopefully. And then what the
plan will be in September, we'll have our spreadsheet with our content and we'll word smmith it if required and if not we'll go with what what we present back to the master plan steering committee. All right. So, um what else is on our list?
Okay. Um, we have been asked by uh the pack to become part of a a a series of TV shows called Committee Confidential and uh you probably got a copy of this
email from Joan to or to look out there. What what they want is they want a member of the of every committee come and do like a interview. talk about what the committee's doing, what what kind of things. Um,
you know, I I would do it, but I nec don't necessarily think that I need to do everything representing the APDC. Uh, do one of you three want to do this? William, would you like to be interviewed and talk about the APDC? I can.
Can you do it? Is anybody else have an interest in No, I think I think be great. you know, you know our business, you know, so we'll make this look great. All right. I I will send back I have a point of contact and I will send back um
your name and your contact info. Who was that? Hold on. I'll tell you when the email went out. August 8th. It says new pack show. We need you. It came from Joe Toller.
And I'm going to forward this to you right now. Uh, William, so you have and if you want I can I can send it to you, too. I'm sending it to your Boston and then Richard, I'll send it to you. Send it to my
Yeah, I always send it to your master. After I read into it, I definitely want to get input from you guys to make sure I'm saying everything about the board and that there's anything in particular. Well, the one thing I want you to say is that we're looking for volunteers.
Yeah. So, and and we're not and we're and we're good guys. We're not here to make historic preservation work. Okay. All right. So um moving to old business
uh the historical commission ABCDC merger I don't know whether I gave any feedback I did meet with town council the last meeting we had in July I was like nothing's happening and uh now things are happening uh shortly that meeting was Thursday night Monday the
next day the very next I'm not sure Jennifer Warren watched our meeting but the very next day she sent me a note and she says I want you I have multiple things to talk about with Adam Costa, I want you to be a part of the conversation I have with him about your
warrant emerge the two. So the following Monday, we met Thursday night, following Monday, uh I met with um Adam and Jennifer and Adam is now working on a consolidated uh merger concept which would go to
special time meeting. I didn't get any feedback from him. I was hoping to get information back from you today for tonight's meeting, but I haven't been able to get that. Um, but one of the things that's really interesting is in that conversation, he was unaware of, and I'm looking at you, Richard, because
I know you had a lot to do with this, he was unaware that the that the ABDC represents a National Register nomination for, you know, the town, the historic Yeah. the historical community. Yeah. He he was unaware that there was
that there that Lunberg has been submitted on the for the national register list and so he was unaware that there's a national historic district. Yeah. So he hasn't read the street size. I know. I know. So um because he says
well we can't do this without you know running into problems because we have I says there is and you know so he looked at the documentation and he goes oh he goes oh this is this should be something that's very doable. So with that he
finally agreed to take on this task. So good. Yeah. So we we move that one down the road. All right. Um, Richard, do you have any new information on the 763 Mass Avenue? Uh, no.
Um, anything on 50 Main Street? So, my fing I have stopped by there again and left messages and whatnot. I think what I would recommend is that we send it send a letter send a letter. Not saying that you know just saying that we request a meeting
with you to discuss the tell the uh condition of the what is it called the power bell to power Capola what is the steeple base this church steeple the
church steeple at your property we we'd like to understand your plans to all right I'll I'll get a draft preserve you know preserve it or you know preserve its current condition or prevent further deterioration
item for the next meeting yeah the next meeting I think getting something official from us um you know uh I don't I don't think we want to read them the no right right act I think we should try that first maybe send it you know uh return
receipt to both to the whatever whoever the officers are on kind of video. We sent letters to them for years. Number of times a year, right? For quite a few years, we never got responses.
Okay. Well, I mean, if that's the case, I think we need if if they come, great. And if they don't, we should we can talk about next steps, but they would probably talk to figure out the best course. Okay. All right. I'll get a draft. And I after I get the draft done, I'll share that. And if you want to, you know, in that
like if they have qu like they have questions prior, they want to talk to you, right? Like we'll make it as open and inviting as say if you have questions, feel free to call me beforehand or whatever, you know, we don't want just come show up in, you know, the fleege lights are on them and whatever like Yeah, exactly.
But um but I think I think they need some official to understand that this is like not this crazy guy in the neighborhood just stopping by. Okay, we're good. that that that'll be a topic for our September meeting. Um there is no other members of the public online yet. So any
do we want to vote to send that out letter or I don't know if that that's required. I I don't know if it is. Okay. Yeah. And then taking it another level that might be required. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You know, we just basically want to meet with them. Yep.
Okay. Um anything else that needs to come before us tonight? Otherwise, our next meeting will be the 11th 11th September. Um, by the way, I saw just FYI, looks like special time meeting is going to be the 18th of November. The select board
will vote on that next Tuesday and then uh what that means is that the warrants are closed I think the 20th of September. So, we'll have to have our resolution of uh merger language.
Okay. That'll that that'll have to be something that we need to look at in September. So, okay. Well, while we're looking at that, I don't maybe to put this on the I don't think we're going to discuss this today. It wasn't on the agenda, the baby finance agenda. As we're doing that, I
would like to consider extending the historic district a bit down Massav. um you know um
it's always like arbitrary. It's got to stop somewhere. It's not the center anymore. There's you know it's sort of uh it's art not science in terms of where it stops. I think recent events have given
us a sense that you know it might not be ideally configured now. And I I I do think it would be worth entertaining town meeting, especially if we got the lawyer engaged and future planning board like extend it down a bit to cover the intersection with Chestnut,
which is kind of a major vista as you approach the town center. It's not arbitrary. This isn't spot zoning. This is about realizing what the actual character of the district is. And uh that would you know bring down
the APDC I think would help give more clarity in terms of you know where things are going down there. I prefer to go down to the police station. There's a couple of uh houses that are
important. Okay. Yeah. I mean let's look at it and let's look at I mean right now it doesn't go down Chestnut at all. I don't think ice. No, it stops right at the end of Chestnut Island. Highland. Okay, which is fine. My guess is the end point. So, maybe we could talk about that at
our next meeting, put it on the agenda, and if it would be published, so folks might want to weigh in on this, but I think this would be I I mean, it's an easy it's an easy modification to make and I don't think it's a super contentious one. There's a it's very
clear what properties will be impacted and yada yada. Yep. Okay. It'll also offer some benefits. Well, I think Oh, here's the the trick, though. It's not just the ABC, it's also the village the village center district. We probably want to keep them consistent.
So, uh if if it's not inappropriate if you could give the planning board a heads up about that, we will need to work with them on that. Probably I know it's just August, but November's three meetings away. So I would say if you could if you talk to them if you could
just like let them know folks I mean does that make sense to folks? Like I don't think we can do one without I I think I think that uh I don't I don't necessarily think you need to do to do one without the I mean I think you can extend the APD the but I think we
need to get planning board involved. Let them say what they want to do. I mean they were conceived together. They're currently they were co-spatial. Um I think there's implications if they're not co-spatial. Like they were conceived together because you were
getting permissive. You get the benefit of more permissive usage which if you're a property owner might give you more property value uh with the village district. And then the APDC add some restrictions which are good for the town and in some sense
maybe even good for the property owner. But they do restrict the property owners liberties a little bit. So, but they're getting the benefit that they're zoning for business so that if they want to have chickens and sell eggs, they can do that. There you go. Yeah. I think that would
be why the planning board would want to do that extension. All right. Uh I'll hopefully I'll have a dialogue with Adam Costa. Um he actually has time meeting hours scheduled for the 25th. I wasn't going to sign up for them, but I think I will because then
he'll he'll see my name and he'll do his work. We all know how that is. Sure. Anything else? Um, everybody can make the 11th September meeting. Is that work for you all? All right. So, is there a motion to adjurnn?
Motion to adjurnn. All right. And then I'll do roll call. Hi, Nathan. Hi, and myself all night. So, we are journed. Thanks very much. Good discussion tonight.