##VIDEO ID:anpNaB1l9ho## okay it is 6:30 and call the meeting of the lber board of assessors to order uh in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being recorded over the lunenberg public access channel on Facebook live on the public access Facebook page which is https www.fb.com lunenberg dpu d access D cable d157 42727 97535 slash the recording can be held the recording can be found on the lenberg access YouTube channel after the meeting record the meeting is being held in person at the Ritter building lower floor um members of the public are welcome to attend this inperson meeting we don't see any moment please note that while an option for remote attendance and our participation is being provided as a courtesy to the public the meeting will not be suspended nor terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law members of the public with particular interest in a specific item on this agenda should make plans for in person versus virtual attendance accordingly for remote attendance from a computer please use the link uh I'll read it off to you it's a the zoom meeting is https Co y Co us02 wb. zoom. usj 8177 6583 638 question mark meeting ID is 817 7658 3638 and the passcode is 612 808 I'm a telephone dial T free number 888 47549 4499 and enter the webinar ID which I just read I'll do it again 817 7658 38 excuse me 3638 pound sign if you not registered resum you be asked your name and email address uh no participant ID is required please just press the pound sign when asked telephone users may dial star9 to request to speak up to joining the meeting computer and app users may just use the raised hand feature to request to speak the agenda lists all topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those recently anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by public meeting law open meeting law uh call us to order um because we are televising this we should introduce ourselves on Brian Leon shair joh Linda mcque Sarah C Rea squeezy any opening comments from the board stuff that's not on on agenda right right right right right I had the opportunity to U basically think about going over our calendar of schedules and I know that last year we did a conference it was a little bit later but I thought that the opportunity to do a conference right just after we made the tax bills is the right thing to do would be the right thing to do because essentially we can as part of this conference we would we could go over the exemptions with folks we could do the deferral piece we could also your house wall the wall of wall of homes and stuff that was an amazing hit last year you remember the thing sales sales wall yeah that was an amazing hit last year I think we want to build another one no matter what but if we could do all that and put together the conference and give us a chance people a chance to ask about abatements right up front and then potentially offer some sort of a a little help session on any of the questions we'll be ahead of the game and that way we're reaching out and trying to assist the community as much as we can and it'll knock down a lot of questions hopefully before they go through the those abatement processes I think about the you know the mass abatements that we got a couple years ago and what they did is they put together conferences with people invited them all in and they all filled out the forums together and I'm not suggesting we fill it the fors but no we can't do that we can't do it for them but we can certainly make it available to them at this conference and ask if they if they understand any of the pieces and if they want any help that uh we be available to answer questions when they if they should come up all I'm saying is I'm trying to create an Outreach to the community that is probably the most vulnerable and and at the same time uh it would be consistent with what we've done the past to try and have an Outreach so just this question I would like to propose that I have permission to go ahead and start working on that I've put a call into suar to see if anything what she says but that as far as I've gotten that's I had me to get permission to do it the uh my question was going to be is that the conference that you held down at the senior center and you just answered the question by mentioning Sue um we could do another session down there I guess I'm not sure they love you how expens how extensive it should be but something fairly brief I think if we could do that last year probably could because you're going hopefully things get changed at town meeting correct so your your exemptions fine but as far as real estate abatements that's stay away for now yeah so the okay the uh timing of such a conference have you proposed the timing yet I'm thinking that the bills going out in December right well yeah but you're talking their exemptions they have to have the exemptions back by April 1st right so if we we did it like in March before that's correct if we put these out get the B bills right out there and then offer this kind of help right after that that's going to reduce some of the anxiety that they might be having and the timing will be right and therefore we might be able to knock down some of the evat or we may actually increase them I don't know but uh yeah the timing just after we get the taxes out uh try and schedule something in earlier January Mr chish this perhaps be an agenda item well we'll add it to the next agenda this was an open item for discussion but uh yeah this is yeah I'm just comments I don't have issue with it I just okay no no you're right you're right I just need we got to get this in here well I think because it's exemptions we should should be be no relation to aats we can't separ so okay I would I would say maybe we're going to start getting busy with a batement season after February 1 so if you wanted to do it during January January okay so we can bring we can put this on the agenda for the next meeting okay which is the 20th we talk about the particulars what we want to have there when we're going to have it make whatever Arrangements we need to make uh I think the the board is happy to have you follow up with senior Senators that's okay thank you any other comment from the board hearing none uh is anyone on Zoom today thanks I don't see any hands in the air so calling for public comment seeing none we're going to Mo the screen still nothing okay good good uh status report from the principal assessor as you know we've been very busy got a lot done uh we had our interim values approved uh as of October 24th um and I gave each one a packet with the la4 and the la4 comparison report which has and a copy of our approval from the Department of Revenue with the dates we were approve and a copy of our uh tax place tax classification is that this packet um no what packet is it is this the agenda cop agenda well I copy the agenda I yeah I did thank you you this copyop um yeah here so yeah so uh I don't if you have any questions um on any of this our values family homes went at 5% and you can see that on page two of the la4 comparison or page one of the la4 which is the second page of the packet it has to right down all the condos all the through commercial industrial okay question the evaluation were at 5% how does that compare to the last prior years is that in there yeah okay ass value 2025 24 these reports were are available to us on they are okay yeah just so I did see that you you showed the uh valuation change by the various uh class classes classes thank you um but the total What's the total total the total Parcels or the no the total valuation change for everything oh um I see it by class but I don't see a summary of all the classes somewhere there must be a comparison to last year able say if you go to page three of comparison we' got a a page that's comparison and it's by again by classes yeah I got the one by classes but What's the total total total that at the bottom it's at the bottom okay sorry okay didn't see it when I looked at the report last time so it looks like it was a u 5.3% increase yeah from last year residential one up 5.0 so okay so other things what that's really what I was looking for commercial is 7.7 indal yeah the other the other question I had I did look at the it was that uh why did the industri ex me the Agricultural and Forest why did they drop so heavy that's the chapter land chapter land we1 61 every year we get from the U Farm Bureau um we get the valuations of what um if you have hay yeah how much it is per acre okay if you have cranberries how much it is per acre if you have um field crops that comes right from the Department of Agriculture we take the those numbers and plug them into our system right so they come right from the Farm Bureau Department of Agriculture every year so farm lands become less expensive or less valuable that's the value of the crop on the land right it's the land values it's the land value and it's done by you have um below average average and above average depending on where you are in the state and then recreational was only at 1% most residential okay so progress yeah good job good job in the face of delays and late stuff progress yes we are not delaying at this point uh I haven't got all the information in Gateway from the finance director so unfortunately we don't know the levy it's kind of difficult to compile I I did a presentation but it's difficult to compile what address that just a little bit the there are difficulties with the data that's in Unice still and the Finance director was working on it on was it Tuesday but then he was going off to a conference for the remainder of this week Monday's a holiday so no further data will be changed until at least Tuesday of next week um hopefully by then there is a ticket for the fixing munus but hopefully by then munus will be fixed otherwise the the 19th is at risk in my opinion well Carter was hoping that we could have a tax rate by next Tuesday for a Tom meeting I don't we would have the data at this point we won't even have the data until Tuesday maybe if we're lucky yeah so I think the answer needs to be sorry yeah I I did the best I could and he knows about the problems with munus he knows that there's a delay in the information and he knows that the information is messed up you really can't do anything that no right right so so my fear is that we have some risk to the 19th and of course on the recap sheet you work from the back to the front so St everything has to be filled in from the back the last page one is actually the last page that's how you set the text so good but at least from our part we're as caught up as we can be congratulations oh thank you've been working hard she's been very haired this week I know you would rather have that found oh it it's not yeah but at least I feel confident and thank you for cing for me when I was away with that issue well we the just need to get the information out to people property yeah the personal property one we got we got it fixed we got it fixed so we got it fixed and then we notified you saw the note notified uh everybody that here's what the new growth is too so did as much as we could our hands tied yep uh so the la3 and La 15 oh la 4 la4 La 13 done yeah then we got the grow on there also and also our in the growth report which is the LA 133 it does have our in there as well figure 5 527,000 right 280 so that's kind of summary great what else you been doing much not much uh we did get caught up on at least the pile of Motor Vehicle abatements we had I guess we have a new pile now but yeah they s approximately how many do we do 30 roughly 32 yeah that's more than roughly but good thank you we've got we've got more sitting there waiting for us they're never ending it's never ending they're never ending but uh but no we're making Headway um I did want to mention we do don't know if there's any issues here with mapping do have some napping issues I'm concerned about R and I actually happened to come across something the building inspector had indicated there was a property that um wasn't on the maps and uh and I was doing a Butter's list and I was having difficulty doing that so unfortunately we happened to find out from the building inspector that there was some parcels from 2022 that updated on the maps on the maps so that's going to be something we're going to have to address uh I don't know if we have to go back to what was done in 2022 because um what does that mean go back to what at least when the prior assessor was here I don't know if all the map updates were done back then so you have to look at anything that supposed to be changed in 2022 just keep crumbs along the way you feel back behind go okay another rotten car y so we just discovered this so we've got to go back and check and make sure that it's correct I did ask if there was any way we could get all the old emails that was sent to CJ from Lisa nor I don't know if that's going to be possible on every change and I did ask Logan who's in the planning department if we could get a copy of the so we're on the Lo because we would have to go on the register Deeds to access those plans and search number and so you're searching sort of a needle in h stack right and we couldn't find this R and I spent quite a bit of time looking today for this and then we got it from the building department so we really need to be included on all of the plans so that we can make sure that our maps are updated yep there an automattic you're supposed to be getting an automatic feed when they open but these are oversights from 22 yeah yeah but I I do know that they kind of stopped using the system just before that that was what messed everything up think that the current government official is using the system for the uh permits and stuff so CJ was having a problem with that and the systems weren't being we weren't being notified of the updates and so that would make sense so we've discovered a hole we're going try to F Well I know that is it half was there that oh I here yeah she used to go in and look up all the plans and the Deeds fil for each month and if there were new log split she would print them up she's been gone a year she's been a while so yeah um the other thing is good mind yeah well I meany here it's it's a it's a bottomless pit just when we think we're finally making we find something else it's okay we we although even today Denise found um a house that was done in 22 was single family house now it's a whole new duplex there two units and she picked that up today that was from 22 okay is that the million dollar one that they just no no so we we still need to keep looking at that and the other thing is I'm going to ask the building inspector because we're we're not going out when every we were notified for inspections but he has like a full schedule so we don't need to go on every inspection like installation and windows yeah but we need to pick up the decks the porches the finished basements the additions so so is he just going to send you his calendar well Denise tried to access his calendar but I'm going to ask if this that before he issues that occupancy permit that we could be a sign off well I know when I was Al there he was sending um notices to me that I have a final in this house today at such and such time that being alone I couldn't do anything about it didn't accumulate it just in so well I'll ask him but there were a couple appointments that were missed and he couldn't get into the property so you want to make sure that we're part of that sign off process before thec permits issued is there any way to shovel that into the gr these findings at this time next year not for this certified it's done 527,000 there you go anything else we find is next year next year and can we go back because we made the mistake we we can only go back well we can't if we find it um like you do the supplemental bills if she found there was a house we missed yeah we can look up the occupancy permit and go back to when they issued the occupancy permit but if it's just a de something you can't go back swimming pools death house that was yeah no occupancy for didn't C the system okay we did send out a a bill but that that was discussed in the last meeting that house but there's only so much we can do time you've listed the la3 and the LA 15 on here we're still not ready to do that those right you say status update 13 four and 13 are done motor vehicle we talked about yep you la 3 and 15 uh la4 La 13 a y la right that was approved that's already been approved that's approved that's that's right I don't have a physical report but that was approved okay that's fine so at this point we've submitted everything we've been approved and we're just waiting this point the and I guess they have decided not to change software as they're going to stick with munus but go to the cloud version soter indicated that today in the department meeting so we won't be changing softwares unfortunately well if the cloud is actually updated regularly most of our updating ones are gone except we got to convert to the cloud which right many of the intermittent problems that we run into would go away but not initially right so they going to build an audit plan or build what happens you you build a plan to make the changes right and then you come back and say okay where am I going to look at my most significant vulnerabilities based on what happened in the past and what could be happening in the future then you actually go out do some checks do some samples and see what happens I think that's probably between the finance director but I think we have the right to ask that well hopefully it doesn't affect the bills this point but there's been a lot of problems every time even when I went in to do an abatement the other day I get an error yeah so it it seemed to go through but I still get an error in un so any any other updates that's it no no no good news that's not it no the that's not it no good news that's not it no what about Tuesday oh Tuesday is um I'm sorry Tuesday we have a new admin whoa who's going to be starting she was ratified Yesterday by by the select boy oh oh I miss that is did you meet her I met her in the interview okay I did not meet her last Rea hadn't met her but I wasn't sure but I've heard very good things about it so welcome Robin and the last name I'm sorry yeah yeah as in really little yeah she's probably not really little but I don't do the not [Music] that so we have a we have a conundrum in the office not enough Des seats not enough desks or computers comp no uh yeah so I'm sure what an excellent problem I'm sure conations these two find people will work it out we will we always do just don't put anybody in that closet cuz you saw the desk there right how you desk out Denise has desk has the desk yeah okay that's right is it still rooms for there and right where the other one used to be no the closet cuz the Fire Marshals all and it wouldn't be safe it would be breathing in stuff that you would want to breathe yeah so where you going to put we're going to let these fine people work out we'll figure it out we don't know have the desk she's there now you're going to be able to stay for a number of months now right we don't through right now her contract the value contract will have her last through the end of no more we do we will I did ask Carter he wants December is kind of a lot of holidays and stuff so as long as we can get the bills out our time if we were not to have you during December we were hoping we get you back by January that might be a thought for yeah precisely so we have a very good problem to try to solve and and I'm sure you'll have a a solution that works for everybody it's good news you know based on what you've just found the last just reported you get 24 32 you get $40,000 you just saved or brought into the town right and if I look at the cost of you guys being a to keep working as a three team and four team I think you could make it up real quick whatever we had to spend to keep bringing around that's my argument we we would love that she's well worth every every said I I did tell part of that how valuable she is right people love it love your responses on the phone I mean we have nothing but positive things I at least the people I've spoken with really well I came into a tough situation and made it better yeah just had to treat people the way I thought they should be treated you did he treated me first time yeah um is that the last item on your update else I don't think there's anything else should I remind you of anything else at what point should we address the item that you wanted to have put off the website that you sent to us oh anytime well I'm wondering if that that should be part of this report because it's really not anywhere else else SE on here well we could look look at it there on the website I guess you could look at it now either way I didn't bring a copy of it but I um it was um something I wrote up that I got from another Community um that they put out for their reel and um I adjusted it to the interns just informational I think I sent it to to you all it was a public information just something to put on oh last week yeah last week yeah okay Sor I I I didn't see anything that need to be changed it felt like something that would be very good information to have available right directly on our website I thought do like oh yeah thanks so so now we'll talk about the website want to get to that so thank you uh we are here to review and approved minutes of September 4th are we white quite ready to do that one so there's a couple of things to change okay in that minutes um we have a batch of roughly 5 mil motor vehicle abatements and the DLS was the 10,000 41c limits increased to 20,000 for a single person and 30,000 for married and they can have $40,000 in assets for single and 55,000 for married and that is the extent of the changes to what I previously sent out so uh I think we can improve with those changes if you want to make that motion accept your changes thank you I can I can actually I can vote even though I wasn't there we voted on lots of minutes where we weren't there sorry um I I all in favor okay any opposed okay so who has an electronic copy of that do you have an electronic copy of that or who I can make the changes and or you can make the changes and send them over to Al I'm sorry Ellen the town clerk has to go to Kathy and Ellen oh CC the rest of us as a PDF alen he said I I said alen too so I look at it tomorrow Alan I know Alan so yeah it needs to be submitted as a PDF as a PDF y okay that's done there were a lot of numbers in there thank you for updating that and they were not accurate um I have done nothing with the October 2nd or October 16th I don't know if anybody's done a lot of work on those yet so I prefer to postpone reviewing those until our next meeting thank you so minutes 12 2nd and 16th October 2 October 16th okay um I have the executive ones from the 19th and AUST I couldn't remember those were voted on at a different meetings I think they were but we want to take a look at it now and make sure that we're okay with it we'll just confirm that and that way it's we know it's done these are actually it's 819 729 yeah 729 though I think we've approved them but do you think 729 was done I think so I think so too actually does anybody have access to the internet right now we could go look and see if they posted because if they were approved no they're executive session they would oh they wouldn't be posted that's true never mind until they're no longer rant until everything's been closed on whatever issue it is and if it's ATV until it's been judic so we have lots of executive session minutes that are sitting there be piled at some point should release but I don't know how we go about doing that maybe we just do a meeting with just those you do that no no because you're releasing we we are approving these minutes in executives executive session during open meeting but we can approve the release once they are no longer you're not discussing any issues specific to no we could be addressing specific issues but it's not public knowledge at that point once we've closed once we've closed the natb case it is public knowledge okay once we once we closed on a on a batement is now public knowledge there may be things in there if there are any income or B based stuff in there but there shouldn't be so there may be on some of the other exemption kind of stuff we would release that anyway but noise being has what's too many English oh this was the okay yeah so these were the the two private sessions the two private sessions we had we can't really talk about the members or the uh hello feel free to join us it's assessors we're lonely in here if you need a nap um yeah if we haven't approved those I I would that we a that far it's okay there's not really much on that hos yeah all right all in favor approval I None opposed so they have a copy electronically so those adjustments can be made by Corrections oh she she can take all the stuff back if she wants me to next week I can and put while we're waiting for mun yeah mun uh thank you tax bills uh we are up to review and approve invoices expense vouchers pay roll billing errors Etc do we have any well I do have one bill um that I forgot at the office it's from vision for the software maintenance 13581 I believe it was um how often is that bill is that monthly quarterly annually annually yeah that's maintenance just once a year okay so I don't know if if either one of you and only need two to sign off on it I'm bring it but and just sign the bill when you have a chance yep um the omitted Bill the in the last meeting you wanted me to get some changes to it I made the changes took the dates off so oh this is just for that was submitted to the the tax collector so she was going to send that out with the so yeah we had some stuff on there that's made this sound like this was the bill so this is not a bill you receive a tax bill from the tax I remember that so we this just clarify this just clarifies so we're not in the inserting ourselves into the loop we don't need to be in that Loop have enough to do but I do have the um warrant on that so sign for that we can collect that'd be good that's always nice next new growth for next year that's right okay sign uh actually did you want to attach those two together yeah uh no this was just a worksheet okay to three times do that and our next item is our um this is this this oh sorry I do need you to sign the one is for the collect and that's for The Collector the other one's for the accountant so you do need to sign that yeah probably it's already right it is right there nice nice see I knew I kn C thank you and the last item is for that pile of what vehs I think it was 32 of them I have three copies if you would mind signing all three for there we go all the extra pages one's for the accountant one's for the tax collector one's for us so much for papess isn't there one system that you just approve with your magic code and they moves to the next person and no no they we need everything signed we don't have our stamp no I haven't got stamp yet one when we do get the stamp could we get approval to stamp the at least the motor vehicle I think stuff like will address that then but I think that should be on the agenda okay it's something that I might be amenable to I anybody else so it saes time I would just ask forgiveness but cuz she doesn't process this until we yeah so and that's the last the invoices nice I yeah Mr chair we got our own stamps and we brought them we would save all that time you can do that if that's what you want to propose at the time we discuss this but for now let stop talking about it you um update on the neighborhood review proposal oh yes so the neighborhood work group are we allowed to meet I didn't get a final answer from but as far as I'm concerned right now no I don't think so Carter indicated we could we could yes when did you get when did indicated that today because I oh that's why I don't have it yet I didn't spent enough time in the office today sorry could do that that's fine we could form our own well we we met and um we looked through the whole spreadsheet of properties we started with ones that said zero but we also looked at ones twos and threes and fours and fives and tried to understand what the thought process was behind those different neighborhoods and so we came up with a list of what we thought one through five were I mean the ones were kind of easy that was done recently um but we noticed some things with force that you know looked like maybe there were small cottages at one time but now we've had new development you know it looks like I haven't done it in like 20 years um it's hard to say um however you know looking through that I at that point like you know identified the trends and the differences but then when we go to look at individual properties I haven't seen the properties I am not an appraiser and so I know my limits there um you know people on the committee also are aware of a lot of the properties in town but it felt weird to classify them without that look at the property or you know just the experience as an appraiser in in my opinion so I thought perhaps we should make those categories that we've seen what we think it looks like and then suggest somebody with um the appraising experience um and the ass experience work on um re assigning the neighborhoods where appropriate um the other thing um that we did is we saw all those zero numbers because we were we heard that a lot of them were um you know from meetings that they were ones that hadn't been assigned to a neighborhood so um we talked about it and came up with a plan and uh looked through all 570 of them and and um I uh spent some time enjoying that process and assigned them all um you know some of those I noticed were um some of them were town properties um some of them were the chapal land ones definitely should be what in whatever neighborhood that chapal land was in yeah it seems like you know and that that fine you can leave the zero on fine yeah and then um there was some that maybe used to be exempt in new development or something like that I don't know and those seem to clearly need some kind of assignment right um so I I have that worksheet and I can turn that over um for anybody's fun perusal um okay and um you know I can go and highlight the ones that I think are not chapter not open space but I I started to get thinking like okay we have well-intentioned people who are not appraisers not assessors trying to put those things in neighborhoods um and you know the magnitude of what that means for assessing somebody's property um correctly I think you know we've got the the major groups in neighborhoods um and certainly that can inform um someone who has that experience to come look at those I don't know if that means inside you know our department that we we have a department we now have department or if that means an outside consultant to then come back to the apartment far apart to the department and um have those work back and forth and and really look at those I mean that's something i' I'd be fine helping facilitate but you know we're looking at a group that there's one person who's done the assessor one onone and then no one else is sworn in um and they're great but there's a a training disconnected my opinion so I was wondering what you guys were thinking about that you have a thought I have some thoughts I like just voting districts that's not it match up with S no tired this was a finding yeah we got from the do or do I think MH um that we needed to go back and revise our or relook at our was because they're kind of a mess I think it was a directive it was a directive that's I couldn't what called I agree with them oh it is uh and we were trying to do some cleanup yeah and you know start give people a better starting point um I think we need to take a position that we should be hiring a third party to revise our neighborhoods based upon some whatever set of guidelines we want to give them and we have some information already on the the zeros and some information on the ones um but I think in order to make sure that we have objective review um we have people who know how to do this kind of work come in and take a look at it and make some recommendations to us before we finalize I mean we obviously need to be the ones this board would need to be the one to approve those changes but U I would really suggest that we need to have a third party company come in and yeah and do the review and and not do it we're trying to do it fairly quickly we don't need to do it quickly we could take a year if we need to take a year and and if we can't get the budget this year we could the budget next year we've got five years to address these directives I want to get started on them as soon as possible so it'd be better if it was sooner rather than later but my perspective is let's let's hire somebody to to do it right it could be a back and forth discussion oh clearly be negotiation people seeing it too especially now that we've had a chance Sarah and her team have had a chance to really start to take a look at the day and go wow there's a lot of stuff here a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed so more jokes this time no but if you were to look at the valuation by a neighborhood in terms of a range and you could come up with an average in that area and look at the valuations of another area and you can't and that's that's suggesting methodology for this team or are you suggesting somebody else no I'm suggesting I'm I'm asking too is that how you do it what what's your criteria for I can only think of value by an area and an average value by an area and then you at the geographic neighbor you know the neighborhoods are defined by the characteristics of the neighborhood so style sales um it includes location in some cases right like rolling AC Skully is a piece of all going to be in the same neighborhood they may be in a larger neighborhood but they're going to all be the same you saw that map I sent yeah um those were the pre-existing as they exist today as they existed yeah as they exist today and we we scoured through that map to try to identify characteristics that match those neighborhoods right so um like so the neighborhood was 3,000 than it was um two been a little bit I have it I have it written down um three was um really any seem to be the default in town yep um four seem to be um another default it seemed to be it seemed to be Cottages um also kind of near Lake but not on the lake so maybe within those Lake communities access to the lake and five five seem to be um properties that are along um major road like Mass yeah um and it seemed mostly massav properties were five other people were three and two um I think two was like more modern developments but more like subdivision from 20 years ago Mid Century Modern whole flat hill area 90s 2000 you know um that kind of area um but it wasn't uniform in that those broad categories because the other thing is neighborhoods have to be a pretty good size so that you can track sales in them right right and and we could have five or six you don't really want to have 10 or 20 um and if there are what 3500 residences in town number and and one of the one of the things that came up was the um the one one a one B I mean if you look at the 1B the first address I think we should look at the site indexes I had a resident call who filed an abatement last year and she found out about our committee and wanted to know how we were doing with the uh adjustments along the lake because her neighbor has a different r a different well and it's different neighborhood yeah and it's it's problematic because the the neighborhood breakdown is it's not enough houses right um for what we were given there who who whomever we have do the review I would suggest like for Waterfront Waterfront is a number and then you you either and everybody's average and you move up from there or down from there based upon some serious of factors but it's everybody's still that same number everybody's Waterfront they're all Waterfront Waterfront yeah and those factors have to be decided yep and applied uniformally y so we're looking at having to look at all of those properties right whoever that is and it should be not a hodge podge of people right it it needs to be a consistent set all the way around and then I think Lake adjacent so so we have we have an advantage this time we aren't looking at doing everything in the next two and a half to three months we have some time to actually do the review we now have more staff so we can do some of the work ourselves some of the some of the leg work and if we were to hire a third party company they could do all the you know collect some information Cate it and give us back something back that give us back something back that was trying to have a subset of citizens decide what to do with one one a one B it it's not practical no how we just even though I'm sure they do a great job um then how do you defend the methodology how do you defend how somebody decided one not an appraiser they're not an assessor you know Mr yeah I'm learning I'm fighting to not interrupt when you see me like that I had an idea but I shut uping so so I WR things in my notebook I call it my parking lot yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah then come back to so the the question comes why wouldn't we explore the the possibility of going to somebody who we've hired in the past like MFS no no no that's they are responsible for that right the one be next to each other in their defense they were looking at this kind of a time frame but the way they did it was just to Helter Skelter so that would not be my first choice say that if we have something multiple parties how do we assure that they're all evaluating them on the same criteria that's should be the same Gage R and our analysis problem and maybe it's maybe where we are is one or two people yeah or a company that has one or two people well and you know what they then make the proposal we have the benefit of time and we check and see if we think that is right yeah right right and so this not just get it one meeting and and then here you go right you know there was not enough time in my opinion for critical review there there needs to be so we're not going to try to Sol I don't think we're going to try to solve this tonight we need to open the conversation and I think that you know you've done a lot of work that map must have been it was fun it was because because you find that fun I'm happy to make those when when we have a reclass too right so it's easy right if youa so it's a good summary and it's it's good I think that what we discovered was this is not something we should assign to a whole bunch of us who are citiz just citizens without any training and I he saying the citizens there might disagree with me but um I that's my opinion do we want to send them to training no no that's not well that's also my that I just responded opinion too so I think I think we you want people to have some experience not newly trained yeah I was going to make a suggestion U now that we're going to hopefully be fully staffed that maybe Denise and I and Rea could maybe look at some of the streets along the lake and maybe take it little by little go out respect and then make a judgment call and review it there are some things we probably need to fix today yeah as opposed to this is a full review of all the neighborhoods so but the things that we need to fix today clearly Waterfront need to be address yeah that's so that something we could do in house up front I think um and I would my suggestion would be to let's let's go ahead and do that when we have the time because you know we're busier than one arm paper hanger at the moment but once everybody's up running trained then there's no reason we couldn't start taking that on for at least that piece it needs to be done carefully and right yep I do know somebody that could possibly help out that so we we'd have to write up an RFP and or RF whatever our do we want to try and I'm are we going to try and isolate what we want to be considered before we ask them we can make a list of the things that we would want to be addressed yeah yeah I think that's a in fact if I were if I if I were if I were a company trying to respond to that kind of RFP i' absolutely want know what is it you're looking for yeah can't just so you're looking at water but there's all different kinds of Waterfront good Waterfront how do you how do you define don't go down that red hole we'll look at all Waterfront we'll start with the Waterfront and then decrease it based upon some things increase it based upon others so those factors what you're talking about is factors so so we don't need to go down there we don't we don't currently have those inion we we we don't yeah we don't we don't have Vision like one our our our neighborhood one one a one B it should be one and 1 a 1 B the ab should be some factor that is put in there right it shouldn't be like a separate neighborhood it should be one that's it in my opinion yes it should be one with is this great is it not great an adjustment an adjustment yeah and there may be several adjustments we may have a list of 20 things that we want to adjust to but that criteria needs to be developed right right so maybe we could develop the crer we could start with that absolutely if it's like when we had red some of the properties and was like you can take that Beyond just the lake front you can take that to a lot of pieces of we could factor in slope for anybody's or like those are factors that we should be using in in Vision well there there's certain criterias when you're when you're laying out the S side indexes and you know like you said the busy streets is um most communities have something for um numbered routes or through streets right right you know and then and I think if you if you look at um the um the book I made last year um it sets out some of the criteria for different types of neighborhoods does yeah and it needs to be applied consistently y the data collection manual that I did last year yes that one I've read through the whole thing I still have it and that'd be something we'd want to provide to whomever we ask to to to carry the ball if we are going to focus in on the waterfront properties right now because we can maybe we can do that um we still got there are 400 Properties or 450 properties on those on those lakes and there are still 3,000 others that we to look at okay okay I know a person who has built a did a collection manual who applies way ahead the conversation is about whether we agree that that we should be farming this out to a third party yes and if that's that's where we are right now and I don't think we need to go any further than that yet we also need to figure out what things we want would want in that R if we put together an RFP and then we have to figure out how we're going to about funding it we've got to go back to the town and say we need this much money to redo because we have this directive from the ls exactly so that there's some steps let's not get way ahead of ourselves I understand what you're saying okay yeah you heard that's all understand what you're saying yes well that's I not for today okay I think so thank you for this for the uh update on the so what will your next steps be with the committee are you going to just tell them that we are I'm going to thank them for we learned a lot their support um they asked really good questions um and they they provide like together we came up with what those need me which is not anywhere to be found um it was it was a lot of looking at different pieces being able to visualize it it was nice that we could actually visualize it and and click on the map um yeah because I don't know about you but every time I have to look at a popup and then try to find it on the map online it just just almost impossible to see what our neighborhoods look like so I think they they did a lot of good work looking at everything it's just a we need to take it up a couple of levels so you I will send the summarize what all the great learnings that we have and thank them for all the work that they did and and uh let them know that we're considering going a professional a professional yes you brought that that that was or something else if you want to write thank uh exemption warrant article for the fall town meeting there you go oh you want to go first or well I met with Carter today and he had requested that we have three slides in five minutes to explain the ex it'll go faster than that and I'll show you what I have and but first let's get some clarification straight the in the warrant there is a set uh was it page number three with regard to costs and adopting uh certain Clauses they had zero for us that's not correct it's $486 if we do go ahead with this because you're going to take the do the math of uh what was it 3% and uh I'm say 42% I'm thinking wrong one 48 bu that's what it's going to cost us the town to go ahead we have uh 27 29 people currently on 41 41c 18 18 okay so I'll fix that but I had I had a little bigger number in either case 18 and do the last year 18 assume the same number is we just want to put a number there nothing's free and I'm saying whatever I'll call back and confirm that but we need tell folks it isn't free after all and the second part so so yeah where is it funded from CU those the thing the thing that's listed the the thing that's listed in there is is the money articles and the implication of what those money money are right right right so that that means it's the stuff that hits the budget are we hitting the budget some place yes the exemptions um do come out of the overlay right but then we get reimbursement from we only get I know we don't get all yeah the 380 is the actual incremental increase and that's when you see this package I'll hand out it'll see it it went up $380 to support this increase and based on uh the numbers that we got I went looked up the the increase and half% I'm sorry the increase comes out of all the rest of the taxpayers in town we still have to fund it out of the overlay account though you fund out you're going to you're going to have money in your overlay for say if you had 18 people at $1,000 each because you're going up to a th000 yeah and then and that was what I was saying before that's why every year when I was in gron we had an article on the warrant Every Spring yeah because we doubled it from 500 to a th000 you needed re warant for that yes and um because of that because you're asking the taxpayers to make up that $500 that's why it was on our our town meeting War every year as a standing article I'm not sure it needs to be there as long as it's in the budget if as long as it's in the budget not the first year but as long as it's budgeted for then you don't have to have a separate article because it's in in the budget well we had we because was this pre Cola was this before Cola yeah we we had we did 41 C so with the adoption of cola I think we will have already approved at town if town meeting approves right we will have already approved at Town meetings we don't need to do that anymore but we might need to do that the first you don't have to go back to the town every morning is correct right right so at that point I think we just then become part of the noral budget this year yes it should increase of approximately $400 is that what you're saying joh I'm sorry that this year it's an increase of about $400 distribute the entire 30 yeah around 400 but we should be telling them that it is cost just don't put it free like they got in the LA report right now ask State he a little less than 500 yeah I think it is less think the first 500 is supposed to be covered but don't they don't cover the whole 5 I thought they did but that's I don't remember what the number was I was surprised like 270 or something they just don't cover all they cover2 you can confirm that for us yeah cuz we're all do off the top of our heads yeah top of my head is not that good okay uh so anyway the the warrant has a really odd title to the thing I have no idea where they got it adopting certain Clauses relative to tax tax exemptions doesn't say anything about cola if when we submitted it we said basically there was an adjustment to Cola it's it's in the it's in the discussion that it's Cola yeah yeah uh right now you can't putting the title but you can make the title a lot cleaner well this is already printed so we're not going to revise the title so let let's not have that okay so we don't have that so what I did is basically I wrote adopting cost of living Clauses for specific to specific exemptions and to see if the the rewarding is to see if the town is the Coler uh jumction and oh by the way this is a package that we would leave out there for those folks who really want to read it oh this is the package this is not not the slides necessarily not yet not yet so anyway if you can make this into three slides that' be great you can't getage very hey we have the same problem with Heather and you know what the end of the day she came on Bo she want we danced around that so either case okay there's two p and approv is it good so no that's good thank you you know anything go up to TS true and and we're we're adopting 41d not 41 C where does it say 41 C third page third slide anticipate CPI index increase from 2 to 1.8% Total increase for 41c recipient household we're not using 41c any that's sitting on top 41 we're going to go with 41 d right that just modifies C it's no longer you're not we're not going it stays in place because nothing ever goes away but you're adopting when they Comm a file for the abatement what are they filing for 41 D okay so can we also change the adopting 17f and 41d modifies the above page going three three page three okay this it says 41 C here the top yeah which that was we did modify 41c I just don't know if we if need it this way we could say this is right off your stuff yeah 17 C and F modifies 17d 41d modifies 17 C we probably there two SE two separate pieces of language yeah only because it's a little bit confusing the way this if I wrote it it's confusing I just pulled it in so I know but now that we're looking at it you know can I get away just putting this out here oh no I don't want because this you want to see because we're going to end up referencing the 27 participants it's 27 27 27 people on 4 do we do we need a no year 18 I want to point out I want to point out that the reason we had this chart in here is we thought we needed to have this chart for the record but I'm hearing we don't need that no the those values those were what we we should have gone by those yeah that's that's because on our wall it says 31,000 and we can't go by that what's on the wall because we have to go by what was approved by I I get that okay I'm just questioning whether we need to actually have that discussion at the meeting well you might want to know you might want to let people know that if they're Above This limit or um this limit letting them know what the what the new limit is by the way that limit is the limit regardless of what we do right right so why don't we just say our current current income and asset limits and exemptions are in this chart below we're proposing to change those to be the cost of living to the cost of I'm sorry trying to change it yeah scratch that up what we when we look at this chart we go from 17 D we talk about 41 C then I'm scared that when people look at this chart these they're going to think these are the new limits they're not going to read that line that says these are the old limits well these are the that we're starting starting limits okay because it says we have to start with those so these are the limits we're going to start with let's say it that way all right so that it's not and then the because we're talking we're talking about 17d then we talk about 41 C and that should be 41 and that should say 41d because that's the one we want to accept right yes and and then we're proposing to start an income in asset limits at this level and then adjust it by col correct so the starting limits are at 41d C 41 C right existing limits on 41 C those those I wouldn't even put 41c in there those were the the income limits that we should have been using right along yeah for the last and they wer so are these are 41 C values or not are they are new 41d starting values they the new 41d if we do not accept 41d yeah they are 41 C values yes correct and so that's what I'm getting at am I talking about C or am I talking about d i I've been in the I've been in this room you're talking about both yes but that's confusing here I get it should we point out that that's what should have been [Music] utilized I don't think so so at this time our income and asset limit exemption amounts are as below unless we adopt 177e 17f 41d and 17d then the col will be then Cola will kick in from the state automatically simpler did everybody get that oh right up whatever take the recording if you want I'll get it but I will so our current income we're proposing our income and asset limit and blah blah blah are fixed this is what we have unless we choose to adopt 17 e 17f 41d um if we do then 17d um is going to be modified by 17e and F to adjust for Cola and 41 C is going to um our 41 C values are going to become 41d allowing Cola adjustments yes yeah okay because otherwise they're not going to know how these chart values connect to what's going on below okay I think I was listening to the board talk about it and they're like what is this yeah um but you know what and and they work pretty they do a lot I know they're interested and they had not right so you know we're going to get people at town meeting just pick this up like that so okay let me take a shot of it and I'll send it over to you and you can send back to me or we just write this right now will that go back and forth we are in session we can do that yeah so unless we 17 option first time this I add it like four pages yeah was that okay I thought was value what was a value thought is that there's a recognition that this hasn't changed in an awful long time well and it officially hasn't time right and this is what we voted last time we're in town 41c yeah I think she's still got that chart there CH you voted to go up on the go down on the age go what F funding funding $1,000 yeah this this which which is not any of these things right right and this has been there since 2006 but and 20 modified and then the other earlier one was May yeah 1998 yeah 19 what do you what do you think of this gentl um our income and out our chart will be as such unless we adopt 177e 17f and 41d if we adopt 17e and 17f 17d is modified by Cola to account for asset and exemption increase I don't think you need the whole unless piece okay cuz you're saying right after that if we oh I think well just as as you said it yeah if so unless so that whole unless less words is better if we can when we can if we adopt 17e and 17f 17d is modified by Cola for assets and exemptions m if we adopt 41d 41c income and limits are modified by goal if we adopt 41d the income ass increase by call yeah not the assets though the in inome just income yeah okay I'm going to write that one more time what you're think should it be I think for 41 D does two things doesn't it I thought 41d does in I I think 41d does two income and asset so it should be income and asset limit y yeah 17 e is separated into two pieces 41 D is one piece but it's two things so 17 d liit I was that's okay I was under the impression that 17 E and F were adopted and it was basic we have ad we'll be adopting excuse me we'll be adopting that adding those and but that also becomes a subset of 17d we've already adopted 17d right so these this just allows us this allows us to apply Cola against the face right right that's all so we we have essentially already adopted 17d so that's still adopted we're not we're not throwing it out right we're just adding to we're just adding these two Clauses so we can have the co so we can ad so we can apply Cola I that causes to be added into notify then that this is what per um was right and these two Clauses by adding it are affecting 17d and 41c they're not changing them they're just allowing them to automatically get the cost of living increase right so that diagram would be correct okay this time in okay the other way okay at this time income and asset limits and exemption amounts are fixed is shown below then if we adopt 17e and 17f 17d asset and exemption limits are increased by col if we adopt 41d 41 the asset and and income limits are increased by four right precise there's your two lines okay cross the other itself on the right yay okay okay so for I'm a Believer in pictures yeah you can start with that picture 1f modify 17 this one feels I would have 17d first and then have 17d I think they flipable and the arrows are going up to I make like flip it and are just so okay you can go that way okay that just look here's where we are and here we here's where we're as opposed to this what we're going to do and should I try and incorporate into this no because we want to carry other some of the other data too you want to have that chart I think still yeah you still wanted the chart and I don't think it's 27 though we got to double check that well I'm pretty sure 18 she's 18 she told me but I called you I called you 18 told me 18 I heard I did it's get time were you asking about prior years because we may have done 27 in some maybe you're confusing the uh hero act because we had 22 e right maybe he was confused okay I'm not worried about it but now I'll fix the number it's 18 that cheap be able to Sayce tce there always videos which save me all the time well luckily we have the microphone here so we'll be able to hear cuz I watched one of the being where we were looking over here and I had no idea what was being sad singing in the ring yeah okay so then there's that and the uh how was Cola adjusted we provided an explanation of that well have to vote to approve Cola adjustments annually no it's automatic any changes to be on the current approved Baseline schedule which you're probably show that doesn't need to be on the slides but that could be talking point yeah that's in the hand out and will Toms reimburse uh State also see also increase do nothing called Becky on that today there's no movement no they change our limits but they don't give us any more money right and then and all changes beyond the scope of the coal increase will require sep approv that's true too one more change one more change so on page five 17f allows for an increase in exemption non abatements these are exemptions yeah you seem to you conflate that's right that's EXA exceptions and abatements and they're are not yeah I actually said that too director at a meeting on Monday I see it I can't two spots two spots yeah exemption extion funded differently different approach that should exemption and then that should say exemption okay okay we leave actually her page somebody said to me I'm going to give it back to her so she can go and check it to make sure I did things right exemption okay see because right at the top here we see exemptions oh I still have to go you could bail me out so I think you should come up with me no no that prolongs too many presenters that prolongs the agony of tummy it's I will not do that to my neighbors it's got to be short to you're going to approve this folks I think we're closed right on this one yeah and I will tryk you make it work for to make the three sales just reduce the font some of this stuff doesn't go in the presentation so you'll get this you'll get this down to I'll bet you get it down to four and then go how am I going to get the three okay thank you so thek you and I will fix the value and I'm just going to explain to folks that it's our package has a little different name to it than what you've seen there the same article number you have to say that here's your article number yeah yeah just give the article they know what the article is it says exemptions in the article it says exemptions on on the warrant I think anybody that I will make the fixes and give it to you okay confirm it okay the more EXP we do less people will understand and the more questions people get yeah no absolutely because you know we we actually know the article numbers 17 D but if everybody starts talking at once nobody can keep back that's true true true they just believe us for $380 no they're not no $138 they're not I think we need to make sure we made the case and then they'll approve it when yeah I will mention that it's not exactly zero it's it's negligible or say that word but it's $230 or something whatever that number is up ends up and we're going why are we wasting our time so okay next I wouldn't I wouldn't say that the warrant that you have is wrong to say the implication the impact here really is about a couple hundreds it's close to zero it's approaching zero the budet you know 23 million what profit they had one for one other was under $1,000 listed so I said okay I better put this one in and that's fine uh upcoming classification hearing presentation oh look at the [Music] tops really 19 Pages yeah W so did you include any of that crap that I wrote CU I I wrote way too much crap I spent my night going through after 4:30 I was trying to get as much in I she did some of this on a plane single is the question what of what no there are three questions three open space discount yeah we don't have any we don't have any open space one of the things we we have open space we don't have we classif so we don't have we don't so that goes away we might next year we do have open space we just have it under the care and custody of conservation conservation the select board the yep parks and rack it's not sitting alone commercial exemption the first time I heard about it was recently so I did a lot of research so I sent to her about eight pages of crap and I said take anything out of there you want throw the rest of it away what do we mean here by a residential exemption well they're going to decide the select board's going to decide on a single or split tax rate and then they can decide whether or not to adopt these three exemptions open space discount which we don't have any open space residential exemption we have nothing designated as open in a small commercial which which um and and they're explained further in here but so the purpose of this presentation is going to address these I'm like go ahead we do have open no it is it is point we have open space I know sorry you have five think about changing the color this but yeah I don't like pink too muchow just um but if you do say open space say something about designated open space we have no designated open space way no designated land code for open space I'm say it that's too many words no designated like do say it in the slide do you want me to leave this alone and then say it in the slide as oh for the explanation you're going to I wouldn't changed this okay it's somewhere else other than that make it yellow yellow blue yellow okay and then and then the next page is and I am going to try to change this photo because there too many houses is a little you should be able to get a picture of Rolling Acres put it right there okay maybe help me going back to Rolling ACR because everybody knows it yeah it's the really only the only I'll call it uh enclosed neighborhood we have everybody goes trick or-treating yeah everybody yeah of that and we can put it in here there's got to be one similar town okay area let's move on yeah yeah so again I'm just summarizing that a purpose is for the tax classification hearing and to adopt a residential factor and then I State this five classes of property residential open space commercial industrial personal property again we don't have any open but these are the that we have uh the next page has the commonly used terms do you need you really need to use this well I'm just want to should this go back yeah just pack I can order I can change the order I would put this more as a index in the ma oh you would okay because is that reading off the they're going to get lost yeah you think so okay it's only a paper clip so she can just move it says four we to change that the only thing is that some of these are presentation so I get it but you want to give a hand out a SLI for meeting yeah if anybody that doesn't understand this needs to go to the back and look at it because they should all understand what those are you know some of the pages don't have numbers on also rision Corner they don't have the DAT to reference you know lower insert lower I got that all needs to be redone this one yeah I know that like that's where we're do let you look at the high chart looks amaz so so assuming that this commonly used term becomes part of the index of about the roles assess yeah I added some more so you I move this to the back the Charles move to the second to last page and then the role of the assessors just kind of talks about how the tax rate the formula that and the fact that we FY 2025 is a review of 2023 sales and the 2022 sales were utilize for classes that had limited sales so just to talk about howw we to follow the guidelines established by the Massachusetts Department of Revenue and we do not set the tax rate can I ask something is there some reason not to put that one very first the role of the assessor the board of associes does not set the tax rate okay I can move that up yeah right at the top first one I don't want anybody confused later on yeah they'll hear the first things well then going the next one that says the tax rates determined each year as a result of the amount of money the town of residence so we have to I going to move that one up as well that's fine don't you think sure or do you it's not as critical for me but if you want to put them together keep them together go ahead keep together do you want me to mention that our role is to Value property for the purpose of Equitable and tax yeah say take these out that should be number one don't you think no you're asking who determines the tax rate here you start with that so you want to answer that question really quickly all right so I'll move those one and well the third fourth bullet will we be moved up to one and two yeah I'm wondering can you say the r determined determined each year by the do believe the tax rate is determined each each year no the do does not determine that tax rate no who does I thought we had to wait for a report to come back it's it's determined when you finalize the recap sheet but until we get something back from the do we can't do it right no wa well we when you get all your approvals then you can have your classification hearing y to set the tax rate yep yeah just but the number comes from the tax levy divided by the what report does it from it comes actually from the first page of the RO cap sheet which you got all those numbers on pages two three four when you're working backwards so last year when we got the tax rated 14,1 the do approves your tax rate but they do not determine your tax okay that's fair I'm sorry they'll approve the tax rate but they don't determine it there's an old saying that a picture is worth a thousand words every looks at the picture but no one ever reads the words especially if they get complicated like this why would you just get rid of this guy and I like the who does and you just kind of make a little bit of a chart and say hey this is the first thing that happens that's the next thing that's the next thing and that's what we end up with and just make it kind of a something someone can read down and say okay that's what it would look like a flowchart you know with regard to uh uh you know hey we get the number approved after we've got something else the do comes in and puts a stamp on it and then we have to decide whether we accept it right we still have that then we can blame who blame but I would think that's great it's a nice picture and stuff there a lot of words and this this is not helping me understand all the words and I and I agree with all the words I don't the problem but it this this is not something that people are going to assessors might look at it but it's going to get shown on the TV across the town and everybody's really interested in that meeting especially since it's two years ago it screwed everything up pretty badly um I I think we can condense at least you know I hear you saying try to simplify it a little I think we could condense a lot of this words but we can have Board of assessors does not set tax rate try and then your second one should be the role of oh well um I know you wanted this other one next um tax rate is set by residents at town meeting no no by the to well tax rate is determined each year as a result of the amount of money the town residents decide to spend at town meeting they spend yeah but the tax rate is that approved by the assess I by the uh selector it the tax rate is determined from the tax levy yes yeah but they approve it well they approve the all they they approve they approve the uh single rate the single that's right sing that is right tax rate is determined by Levy is determined by The Levy and divided by the ra and personal property values value and I did put that is that okay that formula that's on the you want me to make that yeah so I guess you know you had Board of assessors does not set the tax rate and then you want of this bullet of the tax is determin each year as a result of the amount of money the town and residents decide to spend a town meeting yeah so the next one is almost the same so yeah we can we can just cross out one one of those is a redundant we can have residents who attend town meeting decide what services the town provides this impacts the tax rate no yeah that one that this impacts the tax rate right and then it's just simpler so we've got Board of assessors to not set tax rate tax rate is DET by Levy and real and personal property value um residents who attend town meeting decide what services the town of lunberg provid should be capital T decisions impact the tax rate the board of assessors value the property right for the purpose of Equitable taxation based on fair market value y based on sales and then fy2 have you ever seen Mr have you ever seen the town not spend all the money F fy2 2025 accidentally based on so I'm just saying the residents can move fses and 22 2022 sales they something put in savings so that's not spend the decision limited sales I really like this one just once we get this order straightened out I think yeah I might make a copy of what you have I'll give it to you this this was done in accordance and with the review of the Mass [Music] Department something do yeah this is repl so I'm going yeah cap is inorm we all um I think because residents who attend Town meetings Services the town of lunar provides these decisions impact tax rates I think we can just get rid of that bold part or you can just make this part hold yeah okay it's the same thing yeah and I have a very short slide yeah these these decisions impact yeah so keep these decisions impact thex you said this may impact the tax these decisions impact they do they don't may they do yeah impact the tax and change it to rate not rates yeah okay okay assuming they stay with yeah oh that's true tax yeah okay yeah that so this one is a little wory uh but I put it together for the finance this one is the presidential exemption so shouldn't we address the split first no because they're going to decide on these three options I can I can move that up if you want nope I just since you listed that one first back here should we not list it here or should we put it last here so that we can then address it this way there's just an inconsistent yeah I same to this just turn the turn the put that top non bullet non-numbered bullet the very bottom yeah and and right right that way they're going through it in The Logical flow and they'll be able to go back to say oh oh oh okay this what we did got it okay next one's presidential so they're going to decide on these three options whether or not adopt the residential exception we do not currently have this not many communities do it unless they're large communities right small communities don't do that or Resorts so I I just have a couple of things that you can to reduce this a little bit it's applied to every residential property which is a principal residence y yep the exemption shifts the tax burden within the residential class from owners of moderately valued IAL homes and properties to non-owner occupied properties that include apartments and basement lands so what did you change um well I was having trouble understanding so I think it it's really she's trying to get two points across and one bullet and that's okay so the exemption shifts the tax burden within the residential class from owners of moderately valued residential homes and properties to non-owner occupied and and non-owner occupied compartments to non-owner occupied residences including apartments and pl yeah okay res it's mostly for apartments so I took out um the second residential in the fourth line and the third line and then after properties I crossed out that are and I put two noner occupied res enses yeah that makes sense including Apartments um adopting a res exemption increases the residential tax rate the higher rate creates a shift that reduces the taxes paid by homeowners with moderately valuable properties that in yeah what I I would leave that both and I right right like that okay um and especially the one with large large cities and towns um and you know the examples what's higher value by the way is there a number they wouldn't they determine a number a number to got cut off number where it would be moderate versus higher end like I don't know who would determine that well I thought that there was something written up and I only I hadn't I wasn't familiar with this one before but I thought I said have something about a million something so the but I don't know that the way this reads to me is there's a belief that if there are vacation homes and rental properties that those cost more than the not necessarily yeah so no no there there's actually several things that addresses you're right it IT addresses those rental properties vacation properties but it also addresses high value residences if you have a very high value and I thought thought the thing was like 1, 45,000 or something I'm doing this off the top of my head but I thought I saw a number like that we need to know what that number is to put in if it exists so that's not clear to me from this like I I'm looking at this and I think okay owners of moderately valued homes are going to have not so much tax because it's going to be sent to non-owner occupied residents that yeah so that's missing for me right so the exemption shifts the tax burden within the residential class from owners of moderately valued residential homes so the very first bullets were on right no um tax if you are owner occupied home but you have a $1.5 million home you're probably not eligible for this exemption to um high value residential homes and not right and non owner occupied but we do need to know the number before we present this okay well I mean they do it does have to be or they it does have to be their primary residence yes I got that so where so but not not every primary residence is going to get an exemption no no no so that says that okay our high value it says apply to every residential property n which is the primary resident so yeah is it's not true so we need to make sure we understand highlight well it app and include apartment PL right okay so how how does it does this sound right the exemption shifts the tax burden within the residential class from owners of moderately valued residential homes two to properties that are high value or non-owner occupied residences that may include apartments and vacon lands yep yeah that's true so we don't need that very first bullet because actually is confusing yeah can you read that to properties that are high residences that may include Department I'll just give you okay so adopting the residential exemption increases the residential tax rate this higher rate creates a shift within the class we're keeping that right that reduces the taxes paid by homeowners with moderately valued properties um I think because this is covering the same like the one side it's also telling the impact to the others it should be brought up and unpar bullet shift of taxes is then paid by owners of rental properties vacation homes and higher valued homes okay and then we need whatever the bullet is or whatever the cost is we got to find that value are we saying that like I say it up here but kind resal exception in not shocked dupa he gets it in his house 600,000 I gu just keep it I think it's over a million twice I'm pretty sure has not adopted this resal exemption in the past what's that I saw that I like that do you want me to put that there I did put that on yeah yeah cuz we not a community that this is a small community you know and if you stop shifting you're going to have to exp I know well I did it's I didn't know anything about it on Monday I didn't want to say too much she was biting her T and and you know I was going to say I can go into my presentation and look it up I couldn't because we were on the zo but well I do think there's a belief that it has to be under the care and control of somebody in some governmental body in town our open space lands we don't just jumped into she just jumped into open space I'm missing the commercial well we don't have anything with this is the residential exception sorry I'm ready to goov on yes go ahead the impetus for addressing all of this stuff is the budget task force is asking a lot of questions about how we can change the tax rates especially for lower inome or moderate inome Residential Properties these all would affect that so we need to be able to address them because otherwise we're going to get the questions later on why we didn't in fact we might get the questions during the meeting so let's not do that let's just off because it was one I cuz he was looking at n last year they didn't address any of this stuff they did no he did he took a copy of a one he did from somebody else plugged in our numbers and you know what I I don't want to talk about it it was also I said the classification hearing uh presentation from trying to like over or something else that went real well and I sent to you but to table oh yeah we've never been thrown out of the table room before I have this uh so thought that was a good example was consider we need to be longer this time because we have to address I hear what you're saying feel like I'm losing control of the meeting but I'm not sure I need to okay let it go I'm trying to just find something else that we we're looking to see if there's a number for the value for the value and I have this DLS is that um it is well it's called living with the residential exemption I found it oh so it might say it in there yeah res commity yep what's the I don't here how about hold you guys decide what the high value is I don't know that's Ved well she may tell you that it's up to the s pick a number if that's the case then okay let them do it it ain't us excuse me I don't see a number here but I just like but it does refer to high value properties high value but that will come up like what is a high value [Music] absolutely well and maybe it's a percentage know anything that's in the top 5% of residen Val we go down to where the top 5% is and allowed to authorize resedential exemption that cannot exceed the 35% of the a value okay the select board May adop discount up to 35% of the average residential valuation so does that mean that we go off our single family yeah but that that does still doesn't tell us but but I'm just saying maybe I'll find out from I'll be very upset my house is okay we will once we find that out I think the rest of that slide is pretty well set okay okay all right um next one is open space which we do not have any open space of lunber designated designated you cannot say we do not have no designated yeah for tax purposes right well they don't have a a lan use code classified as as open space so L use code is right that's that's why we can say that we don't have any open space for designated sorry designated purposes yeah those were all the ones that were zeros so did you read through this I don't see anything about these things but it's merged actually with what makes it classification for your condos we look at what we get now and we look at what they're saying we should nail it so this slide talks about what open space discount is it's l maintains an open or natural condition which contributes significantly to the benefit enjoyment of the public it's taxable under the provisions of chapter land land under a permanent conservation restriction is also land held for the production of income and the select board May discount up to 25% of the open space percentage share of the tax levy but there are currently no designated open space properties in lenberg for tax purposes yeah because most of our land if if it's getting a discount is in chapter Y and the other land is under the care and custody of concom or somebody yeah okay let's move on that was easy just you got to say that the last one yeah so this one can so well go ahead so this one I took some of your input on the second page of that but I did kind of add to the first one the first slide small commercial exemption is designed to provide tax relief for small business this this no I'm sorry just research say you do that don't complain when we do something okay I W no problems okay go ahead I added a point that to this that it's the small commercial exemption it says it's designed to provide tax relase for small businesses that own real estate and does not apply to least small businesses so it should be do not small businesses that do not that own real estate and do not what does we for small businesses that own real estate and does not apply to least small businesses so oh I disagree that's not true no if you if you lease a property you can't get a small it's not going to be passed on I I understand it doesn't get passed on but you could apply for it and in fact if everybody else in that if you read the thing if everybody else in that in that building is can't apply for this then you can all apply for it if one company in that building doesn't uh qualify then they can't apply for it now having said that why would you apply for it so that your landlord you get some Mone back well yeah the L but if you got a triple net lease I think you could probably apply for it that would be the only yeah so this is not quite accurate but this should be in does not apply you're right sorry and so if half these people are up 10 or few are people half of them are off off the space and you get a 50 person 50 person company and you got eight there you don't qualify no you got 50 person average annual employment it's few people $1 million less than a million bucks okay might I just say it does not apply to small businesses that well essentially you have to own the building to get this unless you've got a triple that how do you want me to I don't know how you want to write it but you can as a least or less or is you could apply for this but you don't get the P you don't get the value passed through so and your landlord gets the money right I tried to say that in the sentence but it does not apply to least small businesses businesses that own real estate it's small businesses that small businesses that least do not receive the benefit correct so on real estate period small businesses that least do not receive the benefit right that's correct I this thing about hours hours um you got it yeah okay so then the tax burden is shifted within the commercial industrial class so it doesn't apply to personal property right and there so was that sentence okay uh yes did you include something here that has no impact on residential either um I did say some stuff on the second page okay there's two pages yeah it's it's compy okay too busy no no no no no it's it's it's difficult to understand so it needs to have a lot of it's confusing do the selector really need to understand this yes because they have to either vote yeah or name on this so you going to read this to them go over W okay I'm going to explain all this yeah answer some questions answer some questions say back with this right we're going to answer some questions and then say the board of assessors recommends yay or nay oh this is a so yeah but we can have po position we we can take a position knowledge right now okay in fact joh I'm just meting are we at the classification here all us not all of us okay he's he's failing it's a Tuesday I told you I said two year and a half ago I'm not going to meetings on Tuesday I I have S you're going to stand up and take care of this right most of it oh I a did it last year yeah yeah we really there for it okay let's move on okay so it only cost us $1,500 dat I sorry so as far as the qualifying criteria eligible properties must be included on the list provided annually to the assessors by the Department of Labor and Workforce Development y that you say eligible properties must be included on the list provided by the department of labor and Workforce Development to the assessors yeah free provided annually by by the department so the implication of for anybody that if you want to explain more why you're doing it the implication of that is whoever owns this company must be paying unemployment taxes so they must have employees so doesn't really apply it doesn't really help any of the anybody who's a mom real mom and pop operation it doesn't help not at all um which is what we' be doing this for this was intended to help out small businesses and it only helps out a really small section of small businesses that number of how many small but we're not going to know how many have well you're not going to know how many actually carry un unemployment and have for us to turn it's like somewhere between two and 10 that's not on the business page is it I don't think that's in our C system right know that no we don't know that so they have to they'll have to F applic there is an application online it says no application is necessary there an application I think when they ask well how many of this apply to except that is not data that we have we will only know after they apply and when we get data from and when we get information from the labor department of um labor and Workforce but we don't we don't know who who that is in town if we don't get a mon a report from Department of Labor whoever we know that they're but they got it last year we may include them isn't that crazy do we have this already and I got to make another note on the bottom lunenberg when we get through these we'll take a recommendation on each and every one of them this morning pretty it's not a pro or a con it's just a observation yeah front we've not done this okay it's not adopted okay so that on the uh the pros I like the use of the blues oh no she's at she's at Pros so I did add some of the cons that you sent to me I added them to this hopefully word them better than I did well I I tried um do you like the pro local adustment will provide a measure of tax relief to qualifying small business if they qualify or that to too any qualify you said qualifying already don't need to say if they qualify okay qualifying small business okay per you the exemption will increase the CI tax rate and will not reduce residential taxes c i the the exemption if granted is born by the commercial industrial properties but not by personal property correct do we need to write if granted I think it's understood exemption if granted that's right the exemption exemption is born oh take out they out the if yeah that's if gr yep property tax I love this one so all of the other small businesses in town get whacked yeah maybe even the mom and the Pops that don't call right yeah can you should make that really big no she talk really Clos and the tax benefit may be realized by the property owner of a building and not the small businesses that lease no just lease that lease yeah okay and it's not necessarily building could be property right yeah so it just leave lease and Adoption of this exemption for the current tax year may lead to A disruption in our tax billing cycle as well as stress to the FY 2025 over the other thing that I wrote we probably shouldn't put down here but essentially we wind up with four tax rates because we got a tax rate for our residences we got a tax rate for personal property we got a tax rate for those people who are Exempted and we got tax rate for those people who are not Exempted so we essentially have four tax rates if we do a split tax rate later on we got at least five and I think it's seven in the way mun is it can't even hand hand so and you might want to bring that up maybe feel free do you want me to say that I want not write it okay just say it but but in you know they we could the current system we may have a problem we couldn't get all the cons on one page so we decided to just stop here and tell you about some of the other ones but I like your argument that we can end up with five of them we could end up with if we if they then adopt a split tax rate yeah we could we could have as many as seven I think can you I would write that up I includ that I just want them yeah because of the um we had as commercial but then uh Mike toell changed them to Industrial so that was our increase why are they industrial because they built like garages they're not oh right they are they have garage they very industrial building I I would before we get to the split tax oh should I wait I'll just wait I just want to get a motion on table to have these V well they know they're de I'm each of no we need to make a recommendation to that the board of assessors recommends no so on the open space discount do you want me to do another page sorry I was trying to understand the industrial condo the street just past Town H industrial just kind of um metal buildings with the garage door and they little office they must be pretty robust well they have bathrooms they have yeah they have power they have you know and then you can fit your own industrial inside so for the open space disc these are a different order aren't they I'm wondering if that different I have to have another page on the back that they has to make a decision but these are a different order I I don't have spend pink sheet they only St that's only that's only the first page that's the second p no I'm way back to the beginning but you you listed open space residential exemption and small commercial exemption but the first one we run into is the residential exemption and open space so just put them in the same pick whatever order you want oh yeah they were out of put them in put them in the same order okay it's the presentation yes so for the residential exemption we've had a robust discussion about residential exemption uh I would entertain a motion to whether we approve or disapprove of adopting that I would the motion we do not adopt this all of them also I want to do one at a time we need to talk about them one at a time I just want to address them one at a time so then we have them all done and then yeah I I don't I don't see that as actually protecting correct um I don't think we personally I don't think we have enough rental businesses or or or uh well rentals there somebody was trying to do a rental and it got Dr down if we if we had a lot of homes that were you know multi-million dollar homes yeah we have a few but we have very many of those so the implication there is they're going to pick up a huge tag like it's it's a lot if we go moderate and dump it on what six or seven large homes that makes no sense and a couple of Ral yeah no so no that that's foolish in my opinion so we vote to not support adoption so the motion was to not support adoption of the residential I second it any further discussion I okay we don't want that one how about can can I suggest we um change that we make a motion to reject a residential rate because to not adopt he made the motion he would have to modify it I would accept that I would accept that do that make sense it's the same thing so the motion is to reject adoption of the residential exemption and we will all revote by open space discount doesn't really apply so we do I don't even know if we need to take a position we probably should say we don't have one doesn't affect us and and honestly how would somebody get that open space designation designation I don't know of any communities that actually use that because everything's in chapter yeah so we have no position on that one um right what was the other one small commercial exemption no oh sorry would you like to make a motion to reject I make a motion to reject the commercial the small commercial exemption uh any further discussion actually I have one thing to say that as after no the pressure that we got from The Bu budget task force task force was how how could we move some of these taxes over to Walmart and take them off our M pop shops we really can't we can't no we can't and by the way well they they met Walmart in in general but you know Walmart we got hord we got a couple of commercial their I said that but I saw about building and the so that we went we we took a list of the top commercial value properties in the community um and you know some of them are Kings uh we've got we've got the Walmart complex I'll call it because it's not owned by Walmart so Walmart wouldn't get any benefit from this the owner of the property would get the benefit if they applied and you know it's it's I'm sorry actually so they wouldn't get the benefit they would actually get stuck with some additional tax um and also the the T really doesn't like you shifting unless you're at at least 10% of commercial yes I get it we're in four well no so this is this is not this is an exemption this is not a shift the shift is is the split tax so we have to address this separately but correct cor that we don't have enough commercial commercial property well and we have we spoke with a small commercial owner home business own several business own several businesses in town and the comment was if my taxes were to be raised by as much as 50% because that's how much it could be uh with the split tax uh we' have to move out of town we'd have to move our business somewhere else well other comment was they donate a lot to youth groups in town and the extra money they would no longer donate to self since the tax burden would be going up they would not have that kind of free money to be to donate I think the intent the intent at looking at this commercial is certainly laudable um they're trying to have these large corporations taxed at a higher rate to support smaller businesses but the way the small commercial exemption is written it doesn't do that it dumps it on even smaller businesses for the most part M Massachusetts property tax yeah doesn't address somebody's Goodwill because they are a huge company yeah and we can't value that into their value so so so the bottom line is I think we need to take a position on the small commercial exemption which yes so I U make a motion to reject the small commercial exemption for support for this yeah do you want me to say after I've discussed these on the presentation that the board of assessors recommends or rection in this case rejection we we don't get to make the rejection they do but we re we recommend rejection the the board um took a position that um they would advise the Selectmen to reject these yes um because of the impact on other small businesses correct and um correct larger businesses that donate considerably to the town right question yeah okay uh you get 4% commercial and you get 1% industrial so that's 5% right and the personal property is most of that still industrial or commercial personal property is for contents of machines and stuff like that yeah you know they're um like in a a doctor's office it's their equipment you know insurance is their so when you're only talking specifically the building of the land and the building itself and that that's not personal property right right right the indust the contents of building yeah it's the contents which we tax proper yes right we're taxing that yes on top of the alance they're already getting hit yeah yeah so yeah we haven't mve we haven't moved off this one yet so let's not let's Okay move on okay so so I I just wanted to did we we didn't take a vote on this one there was a motion on the small business did not take a vote because I added something to there and I wanted to have that conversation so we knew what going on so anyway uh are we ready for a motion I mean we ready for a vote yeah yeah okay I in favor of rejecting adoption of commercial thank you you we can Mo on um I going to say uh community and like the sports team the schools sports team Community engagement and support Community Financial support you bless you community service support activities activities thank you because we used to have somebody that would donate skids for bonfire anym they remember that so well we going to do that with the Brooks house right I'm pretty sure that would be a house oh okay sorry so we're on to this so the next one is to my my her pie pie that I spent so much time working on on a flight to Vacation good job with the arrows today but we figured it out this beel Excel and then put it into PowerPoint yeah so that's this is a the percentage and the assess values for the four classes here great I don't know what up this okay there's actually five classes but we don't have the other CL we don't have the other what taxing next we can't give a tax rate we don't CU I think by the way why you put this slide up the argument is kind of like there is really stuff and then this is justy Joe the question comes down to so go ahead this is just the next one is just over the years to show just before we do that so as we're heading into this we're now talking about the split yes we probably got to have a slide that says split in considering the split ly whatever um just a transition well I am going to get to that further on so I don't know if you want me to put in a page that well it's just I don't know where we're going when I see this I'm like I'm like oh cool interesting information what am I thinking about in summary CU I have a lot I have a lot of information you do you think it's too much I like this one because it tells me we have not grown our industrial base basically at allal we what are we're supposed to be doing we're not getting it done so if we want it's co down yeah if you want to if you want to just do one page you want to put a page in here that says and it could have some more stuff on it some of the other stuff that you might have back here why don't I just have one page that says it and and now some information oh here it is to I mean I get further on the split but I don't know if I have it's a transition into the split now once you've done talk about this stuff exemptions to tax and and now just say and now split rate and now to go further on to the split tax rate that I've got to provide some data before that context to consider single by the way this also adds Credence to the fact that do doesn't want anything less than 10% so maybe maybe just say it just says well they're going to vote on all these at the end so yep I probably need to put a recommendation I don't even know if I should maybe put that in the back I don't know we need a recommendation page for us yeah that we here we recommend and let the select board do what they want we can't stop so you want me to add a recommendation page after the commercial the board of assessors does not know I'm just going say the to the end put letters it's the it's the one just before this that says yeah here's the recommendations you have to take a vote on these four items Y and here's what our recommendation was yeah that's all okay so split sing split yeah so my next is going to be whether or not select a single a split tax rate and I've got some information that I'm going to provide to you before I go further into that so it'll be just a one page sheet that'll add I mean and you're getting to this page yeah next so this is we don't have very much commercial no 92% of lber is residential commercial is 4% industrial is 1% and personal property is three so we don't even have 10% yeah which is the recommended for split yeah y yeah if you say that when you're looking at the pie chart when they're looking at this pie chart can 10% is recommended for your split we don't we don't even get to that if we combin industrial personal property and Commercial to look at it another way this don't get it here either you've got this yeah and then you can say how I'm going to say it you know to look at it another way here's where we are over the past five years we' we've kind of stayed we've hovered under under actually it's dropped a little bit 23 it's dropped right when a slight bit and that's probably because of those new commercial condos yeah industrial condos industrial condos and about the W Warehouse or that's not f up yet that's that's was in last year okay right so that was 8% in 2024 y it only went up because of one development and this one went up because of one de or stayed up because of one development and it's that one development from the previous year isn't even occupied right right we don't want to drive people out they have it yeah perfect okay now if you want me to move this stuff up front and save the I can move the I want to personally I would rather show them all this other stuff say we looked at a lot of options we've looked at a lot of options and the last option I'm going to show you is the squit rate okay and that's my preference but I don't know how the rest I like this order because the the I mean this is this is a lot of data yeah the other stuff is not as much data so they can get a clear picture of that and then they can oh again yeah 92% for 13 I mean it's here here it's here again and and that is honestly what people need when they're getting a delou of information get it a couple times and you got three different formats just numbers the bar chart and the I kind of like that it's just a lot of information so i' like you have a couple different ways just just thinking out loud shoot me um could we do we put these two one page by two each that might be a make them small was a whole trip to me getting those do it w you leave it unless that is saved as an image on her slide as soon as she tries to shrink it she's going to have to redo all of those yes so you take this as an this as an put them on the page shrink them and be done I think to it that's why I made it bigger so you uploaded on I'm okay Mr chair un do this is a great chart it demonstrates that essentially we're well bu or whatever but there's a milestone here that you might want to bring up this is the first time the average family home is going over half a million dollarars oh oh that is a big number average single family value 54,3 197 it's up 5% by the way it's not average I need to actually change that average Medi okay most people think of average as Med here it but case it says median for the commercial indust to average which one median should be average they're both they're both really median do you want me to change it the wording to median I can I mean it's Medi I don't care if you want to leave them up there but just don't even change this one when somebody says what's average mean it's not mean no no in assessing it never means the mean because we have some outliers that drive the mean freaking crazy right right right that's why the average is not a great way to look at it that's why you put me in there but the fact this median is an average there are three different types of averages as you know so when she says average here it's not incorrect it's just the median she says median here that's not incorrect either it's the median so okay yeah okay leave okay in NE case half a million bucks now town and guess what your just your property values if you a homeowner in lunberg you've just picked up another uh 20,000 bucks or so $25,000 value of your house on average on but not necessarily for any particular house right just no all right so our tax levies oh and I want to say one one other thing so the 7.7% why would you want to penalize Commercial Business which is stop any further any further than 7.7% it's already pretty good height yeah yeah okay um so the next pages we are waiting on the finance director to put them in Gateway so I don't know the Deb exclusions I can't determine the levy we actually took what was in Gateway from last year and populated these fields we know our growth so we're just in here blank because I don't have any other information so I guess I'm I'm wondering why we have both of these slides because it's right here uh one of them this is just one just a maybe I could change the summary because this is I put this one in here to show how the levy increased from year to year comparison oh I see so this is 2024 2025 and that's just 20 okay I just was like uh no they're both it's 24 25 well you have the levy just up here for 2024 and then you have it down here for 2025 yeah I see what you're saying so maybe I take out that bottom one take that or take out the whole SL take out and talk about it on move side 14 to yeah it's there well you have it you have it here already really youve got the ly liit here for 2024 so you can just do away the change and move that to I'll take that and move this to move that bar just to make it a little easier yep next one is the single tax rate we don't know that so we don't know that we know we know what our total valuation is um and we know what last year ta rate was so I can't determine yeah yeah you got to get the so what other question just yeah should that be a times th000 or should it be divided by a th000 th000 so you're going to add three more Zer three more zeros to that what is that times a thest that's the isn't it per $1,000 so this 23 60 is what when I the value of the ter when I take the the levy I divide that by the value and then I multiply that by a th000 and that's going to give us a tax rate take the value cuz it's confusing the way I don't I have a The Divided line is Oh I don't have the number oh so because you're dividing by the tax levy most of that goes out and then I take that number and times it by th that gives us the so let's say it's like 250 million it's well 31 I think we well we times a thousand I but I thought I thought when we're assessing when we're assessing land I thought it was per $1,000 yeah the tax rate is 4,000 yeah but yeah that's right yeah this that's the valuation it's confusing cuz the divided line there's no number above it so it's really division where's the divided line so the tax and there's nothing else with it so if you extend that like if you oh oh there supposed to be a sign is but this and then you multiply so you divide the tax levy by the valuation and multiply that by a th so this is okay I I did not see that yeah so this line will extend to whatever size it needs to be when it's here then you'll know this is a divided by yeah okay that looks right now yeah when I change this to a l line I go okay yeah I should have kept the line no that's that's fine I just didn't understand so to the dollar it's okay when you put the numbers in the line will automatically be there so going look like supposed to look like yeah okay thank you so we kind of did this experiment based on a levy of 31 m628 the other day so for the the budget task force so I could have plugged that in there but we don't know yet so right so the next page that says 17 on it so the next page it says 17 should be FY 2025 estimated tax rates so we did this the other night I actually made this into a much better chart that wasn't so busy and I took um four scenarios that were recommended by Carter and did the CIP shift and he wanted me to indicate the tax bill for a $325,000 home a $600,000 home and a $1.2 million home and I did the same thing for the commercial and did the breakdown I got these rates these tax rates from the options table in Gateway and I put in that $1 million Levy so there there's a capability to do what if and this basically what if this is what if that's the L scenario so this kind of shows you based on the chart of why we would not want to do a split tax rate because if you look at the commercial tax bill it goes up dramatically whereas the residential Bill really doesn't doesn't decline that much so that represents our numbers you know 92% residents and yeah um so you know you're pushing it on to 4% of your whole Community is it 4% right where is that P chart oh% yeah trying to push all the tax load on to 4% versus it's commercial and Industrial commcial 5% I like the disclaimer too good job well because their personal property doesn't given that tax rate does it so it's 5% right so pushing something that's distributed across 92% of our tax spase onto 5% yeah and so their rates go up yeah so this an insane amount I mean this um if we do a CIP shift of one and a half% right our commercial value for like 600,000 instead of it being 8,34 in taxes if we go to a 1.5 shift they now pay $12,000 for 600,000 that's the middle range of what we not 1.5% that's 50% increase oh A5 percent 50% I just want to make sure we're reading thank you appreciate that well shift is done in whole numbers so or decimal numbers to two positions thank you so one is I did not know 100% everybody gets 100% everybody gets 100% this person 150% not 1% thank you and so like the other one would be 130% yeah 15% 30% 100 you that's a lot when when you when they vote they voting resal Factor one meaning same if you if you note at one everybody's tax rate is 1339 in this in this example yeah and the tax rate for 1.5 only goes down to 1277 for all the residential build uh it's across 92% of our stuff and the commercial 20% one thank you so that's a lot the next side says 2024 classific so just review from last year's data um I wasn't able to figure out the levy percentage the change in that but it has the valuation from last year uh the tax rate we're pretty much the same um and it was voted on March 12th that's when the select board voted the single CIP shift residential Factor one put ni little long yeah uh and the next slide is just a a tax rate history just showing that historically we have had a single tax rate so you'll be able to fill out 2025 I will once when we have this stuff once I have the rest of the information yeah so what we will recommend you another slide that is the recommendation of the board us so do I hear any motion about a recommendation for a split or not split tax I would recommend we adopt a not split we continue to stay with a single you want me to make another slide I'll just mention that the board of assessors recommends all all of the recommendations put them all on one slide you put all the recommendations on one slide right at the end right before the okay so I'm not I'm going to take out the right before they have a nice right before the pict so I'm going to take out that little slide where you asked me to put that I was going to okay so now on to our single tax rate you put another one on the back yeah um so it's still Pages yeah so the terms that that go very bad even after the even after the picture because it's sort of like an index yeah okay all right so we all love indexes another this might b a question why such a big reduction in 22 to 23 what happened we we value the values Community went up yeah that's the only thing that yeah because you can only the two and half do you remember what happened some values on some Lake Properties what freaking crazy oh that's right I heard that yeah so I'm surprised you forgot know that okay but the vales still continue to climb up but nothing what they're climbing climbing it was 1774 and then 179 and then it dropped three bucks yeah two bucks two bucks because the property value can total Val didn't but didn't we recover that what do you mean didn't that Al we adjusted the Lakes well and then the residential they're all residential but don't you gave back 1.5 million dos yeah yeah yep actually does not recommend okay and then we had a full revaluation and most of those Lake Properties didn't go down at that point they to go up 18% I think the does not recommend adopting a residential exemption an open space discount 30 yeah so a small commercial exemption did did we actually vote on the single rate no I think we seconded I don't so I think we any more any more um discussion no okay we single thank you so I I think you're ready to go and I love it we leave it with a positive we recommend the single tax right oppos to so many things well and maybe we should say recommend of those other ones instead of reject I don't care no I'm asking the board just it does not recommend adopting those first three right but we do recommend adopting a single T I like that nice little sandwich uh okay we move on to the next item yeah you have a piece of paper you'd like to put on the website so talking about the website I have some stuff to put on the website hang on she's ahead of you [Music] is there still water I can find Brian's going to keep me [Music] busy I'm building a rail for my stairs good job you didn't even show up thanks huh she she thank you very much for yourone I appreciate [Music] it that was a nice piece of I appreciate your comments always good I got have you you pick well as soon as somebody goes as soon as somebody goes I don't understand bu explaining um what this was the one that Reena had sent I don't think that we suggested any modifications to that you had that no I just not remember anything they don't did yesterday starting at 5 4 yesterday I don't know but it wasn't our work was our work just read through it okay I like it I think I saw something like that okay it's just informational yeah yes and it would be just a it's a document that that uh car will put out and then we'll just have a click on it and I don't know what the title though what title should we use on it public information release change okay that's right where do we want the pointer put page down the bottom of the front page as it exists today at the top of the front page it's a information release this is the idea about doing information releases so is we get it in the new section new oh the town Town yeah to get a new section that brings up stuff I go read that something like that okay I want to pay attention to that think it is we have our tabs the tabs were added in yep your no has been changing and um have you been getting few phone calls no no complaints so okay yeah that had the desired effect no no phone call looking for where things are what we shooting for yeah so based upon some well it did change a lot over the period of a week there was there there was a mistake there was a misunderstanding and there was a software glitch um the misunderstanding was everything got put on the side so we had a huge long list of stuff out here and some stuff got dropped that was the misunderstanding and all got moved back to where we wanted it and we still have the two bullets at the side that say citizens and assessors uh the software glitch was if you clicked on site index be if you recall we used to have a department yeah we decided to add a board so you get to the board the board pointed to the department so there was one thing in the site index for the board it was the department website none of the other stuff that's in the department if we had drilled down further which I did to find the department site index it's all there it's there so I went back to Cara and said we if if we only get one we need to have it on on the board side I think because that's where people go to us first she said the software should have picked it up so I don't know why it didn't do that but I think I can make it happen on both so I believe today if you go to the side index for either the department or the board you'll get a full side index which is basically a table that's true there's three of them right now three what there's three indexes one's the uh I can't read it one's the I can't read it we can't read it either I can't anyway any case there were three of them like few hours ago not just two so what's the third one okay assess what you call by location value by assess value by location that's not what I was talking about I was talking about the side index that's not the side index the side index is down the bottom if you click on the bottom but you didn't I did I did actually and uh I made some other suggestions but like this one yeah is that did you P that that's the side effects for us right like map right yeah but when I first went there there was nothing in I just told you why it wasn't yeah it just showed up well so so now you know why it wasn't it's fixed so I thought it was going crazy let's talk about well I don't know about that yeah I can't say one way or another all I can say is it's fixed now so let's move on to the next thing there was okay you I want I want to talk about whatever next thing you have but this is fixed so okay so was going through what was rented and I came across this thing called a Jesus Joseph a directory you said there was you told me there was a directory in there no I just told you there was a yeah but there's inside our site there is a little thing called the directory and it's actually just a repeat of what we already have in that page so that whole directory piece is not really needed right it's it's got the exact same information oh I well if it's there yeah well well I've got a better idea space yeah just take it out just whack it but anyway I thought you know what given the fact that we could pull that remove the directory and we get add a table of contents in a site map just like we have in other already have a site map you do okay twice so you get on it twice yeah okay so your site map uh does show up and yeah right there say to bring us something new Jack okay okay uh we have table of contest in there I'm just kind ofing by the way I do apologize for the Outburst of the last week just okay it's 9:30 it's too late to over I'd like to okay you go sorry did you go to the search we don't have a search engine in our the town has a search engine hidden off in the corner right I go home play it one time and I get a set of information that looks like this I put in the RO tax evance right so I get this then later on I get something that looks like that same dates one of them is using the old software that we had the the system that was sitting up there and it's it's now referencing the new so the stuff that we had out there and that we've changed and gone all over the place it's still sitting there it needs to get extracted well she's been keeping stuff out there in case anything needs to come back in the search only know was search Eng is finding all the old stuff okay and then uh just the one of the things that if you look at the Board of Health they have a section that's go dedicated to revision controls and when they we do not have anything that's puts in there it that's just revision controls at all so anyway uh we should be putting that in there CU we know when we've made changes to things and What needs to get changed because that was one of the things that get pointed out you can you you know the age of the dock and stuff direct second no direct second thing you mentioned which was oh the search engine search engine hor because it's got the old stuff in there uh yeah we do use table of contents in these uh you can come up with a hybrid the basically we've got the site map and just go to another level and you're good and then uh so R control you have the r control or I the table's in there the T we have it the site map is in there yeah but the table of contents is you know when you open a book you open go to a chapter and then it's get the name and it's got the H pieces well we haven't gone to that second level that's all so so who you said said had a bir Control Board of Health Board of uh Board of assess Board of Health Board of Health they had revision controls okay we'll take a look at that yeah yeah there you go okay else is that it can't read the C okay I wasn't trying to do anything more than no no no this is great take a look to see what I can clean up as we've said right along this is going to be a continuing thing we're going to keep making fixes as we find them yeah and I those three things that we can at least take a look at and see what we can do and I made a critical mistake when I first started the project the first rule is you always talk to people do the work the way we know the most about it we kind of I kind of imagined it I brought it back to you guys you kind of imagined it we imagine it but the reality was you're the one that's answering the bones you're the one that's hearing the questions you know what you should just be real comfortable in moving stuff around just share it with us well it's long that's reach to the agreement that we wouldn't make any changes unless the board agreed right so let's stick with that unless you want to make another motion no no no car has already made a motion she was I'm not changing the goddamn thing I'm sorry I didn't mean to say that thing unless the board approves it so we we have that sa anything else about the website no I I like and I know this other stuff we have to be putting in there in the in the other section so it's it's much closer to what we thought it was going to be yeah so let's let's take that as a win and keep keep fix it do you want us to up uh have Carol put the old versus new on the website old vers we got Vision oh once once the tax rate is approved I think you should do put on um right a whole by location B location not the old versus location y property C sort of but this way they could they don't have to go through property C property C they can look and they've had that before so I think that's a good idea yeah um cool uh details and development of an assessing calendar we'll get to that someday we know what we know what the do asks us to do but then we we have steps in between that probably and like this year we thought we'd have information from Vision on September 1st sorry we we didn't make um but anyway so this that just quick question jumping back to your presentation you you're going to send that to these folks the um Bo select people in advance Carter is probably going to want have uh a package for them ahead of time oh yeah give them time to read it that's that that part of the communication we're going to leave up the C I just hope I have all the information in time because it's under two weeks away did you um talk about mun oh yeah we did okay anything on policies that we want to address tonight or can we maybe not do that unless there's something pressing on policies I'm going to move on uh upcoming meetings we definitely can schedule something for November 20th Yep that'll do all likelihood be in the Town Hall I already have it scheduled for the the November 20th and have a classification hearing on the 19th I will not be attending but the board is expected to attend the the is expected what time is that I believe 7 o' okay it might be he it's hard to estimate the time I think they start at 6 but I think I don't know Joe probably knows what time they the bo select what time they start their regular meetings are at 7 oh it is at 7 okay so but they have a few things to go through before yeah they introduce us any chance of keeping our Wednesday meeting short uh the 20th yeah yeah I don't know the agenda comes from her if you want to keep it short I can keep it short we can take a lot off a lot meeting aot the other thing is we need to have a meeting the week the first week in December I have is available not available on the 4th that I can commodate any other day is there any other day that we could do something going to say Friday all the buildings are closed in they all work I know good I'm not going to make it the fourth either okay you can't do Tuesday could you do Monday the I think it's the thir no actually Wednesday is the 4th Tu Monday is December 2 I Sarah might not be a Emma maybe um I think we should schedule it I'll let you know okay I I have to move something December November 2nd December I'm sorry no I'm sorry a second I know looking down I looked I looked at the wrong line I know so uh that right now is tentative yeah we'll do it if we can we do need to find a location we'll have to line up all the resources okay so do you want do you want me to line them up because um I've lined up the 20th the N well actually the 20th I have lined up so because is a lot of other boards yeah Ellen had said you know get your request early because oh my gosh it's with everybody requesting told you the biggest headache that I got wasn't the I was trying to figure out the logistics of making up a meeting yeah well this why I did virtual I watched you no so could I schedule the is the 18th good for everybody Wednesday the 18th December 18th I know it's just for a Christmas but yeah I can do it so Monday December 3rd and Wednesday December 18th I'm going to oh no I'll be okay I'll be I'll have done a colonoscopy that day just TMI anybody I don't know if I'll be awake for it that's all I'll make it I'll just I'll tell you all about it is there anybody is there anybody out there in the public that would like to speak no uh anybody at the board like to make an announcement pronouncement have any for further comments hearing none uh I think I will entertain a motion to ajour second I I good night everybody 9:35 31 that's wrong and