And I'm going to hit record on this thing. >> Recording in progress. >> Thank you. Good evening. Welcome to the board of assessors meeting of today, January 6th, uh, 2026.
Uh, we are at the Ritter building lower level. Um, in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law, please be advised this meeting is being recorded and broadcast probably not live over the Lunberg public access channel on Facebook live on the public access Facebook page which
is httpsw.fas.com/lunberg-pub-accable facebook.com/lunberg-public-access-cable dash 157-427-270-975305 slash The recording can be found at the Lunterberg Access YouTube channel after the meeting, most likely tomorrow. This meeting will be held in person at this
location, as I mentioned, the Ritter Building. Um, members of the public are welcome to attend this inerson meeting. Please note that while an option for remote attendance and/or participation has been provided as a courtesy to the public, the meeting will not be suspended or
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app users may use the raise hand feature to request to speak. See, I have a little acting going on here. The uh agenda lists all topics which may be discussed at the meeting and those reasonably anticipated by the chair. Votes may be taken as a result of these
discussions. Not all items listed may in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by open meeting law. I'll call this to order. It's about 5, sorry, 6:35.
Um, we should introduce ourselves. I'm Brian Lefond. >> I'm Linda Cha. >> Brian Mar. >> Thank you. Um, opening comments. Are there any comments from the board?
You mentioned that you've made a great progress on uh accomplishing your modules. >> Yes. uh on my training modules. Yes, I've made it through seven of them so far up up through property tax abatements. I have three to go. Tax
exemptions, property, uh personal property and motor vehicle excise. And that'll be it. the uh just for those out there in the public uh there are a total of 10 training modules I think um two of
which have to be completed before a new member can vote on items having to do with uh abatements tax rates etc you have accomplish those so we now have a quorum >> thank you
>> um >> but I'm not into exemptions yet >> well you You've made some >> that's coming up. >> Right now, I'm glad we're focused on abatements cuz that's the first thing that'll be coming up. >> Yes.
>> Uh hopefully not too many. >> Um I have no comments. Uh I think we'll go right into the stats report from the principal assessor. We have a line on this agenda that was from the last agenda. There was a joint meeting. We we
are not holding a joint meeting today. up >> just so anybody who's following the agenda >> please ignore that item >> okay >> um update on tax billing munice etc etc etc and did you just give me a
>> oh yes your monthly report >> okay fire >> so I will go through the the monthly report uh we had uh 11 butters list for the month of December um motor vehicle excise tax abatements we had 27 within the past month. Um,
they've all been processed and waiting payment by the tax collector. Uh, as far as the tax recap and the tax rate, uh, the tax rate is 1439 per thousand for fiscal 2026 and that was certified by the Bureau of Accounts on December 4th
of 2025. >> That's 3 cents more than last year. >> Yes. Yep. And um the tax uh billing file uh was sent to uh Bill Print Company, which is Kelly and Ryan, on uh December 19th.
Uh the bills were officially sent out on December 29th. And um Randy Mercier and myself will be connecting in January to discuss the personal property bridge, which still hasn't been corrected. Um, and we also had an exemption duplication
issues in Ununice from when we sent over the file from our canvas system. So, we've got some work to do still. >> Yep. The personal property bridges way of explanation is what is part of the communication process between our canvas system and our financial system.
>> Yes, that's correct. And when it goes over into the system, we've had some errors and we have to use Fall River's Bridge to get our tax bills >> to work >> or to to get our CAMA system to integrate properly with our financial system.
>> And and that's that's actually the second year running that we've had that same problem. >> Um is we've been unable to fix it, but hopefully we'll get it fixed this year. >> It's actually we're waiting on munis at this point. >> It just requires us to do a lot more manual stuff. It does. And we um we did
do that. We we actually we would like to put our real estate exemptions into vision uh >> right >> for tracking. It would be a nice feature to have that in our property record cards. And in addition to that, we do
have an Excel spreadsheet, but it would make the whole process easier because we have to process 112 of these and enter them in. And what happened was with the the whole issues that we're having the exemption amounts doubled on some of the properties. So we have to go in and
delete them all and into the main which is cumbersome but um we've done it two years in a row like that. So >> So the bridge is not a block to progress but is certainly slows progress down. >> Right. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> So yep. But at least the bills went out
on time and we we were able to to >> I have mine >> get everything. >> Gee, thanks. >> You haven't told me yet. Um and um the assessing assistant had processed the warrants and commitments
which I have for you to sign tonight. And for the actual billing, um the warrant for the real estate is 17 bill429,871 >> uh 19 cents. >> And the personal property uh warrant is uh 500.
>> That's 17 million. >> Not 17 billion. It's only 17 million. >> Just quick correction. >> 17 million. I'm sorry. That's okay. I've been >> there's so many commas. >> I've been here at 8:00. So I'm looking at at numbers. And um
>> unless this is a typo, which I don't think it is. >> Five. Let me get my sheet. Let me get my laundry. >> Yeah. Yeah, it is >> 17 million. >> Yep. >> That's correct. And the personal property is 5 61
um,34025. >> Yep. >> So um we have already started preparing for FY2027. We rolled over our database um and um we are already starting on our next project
which we identified 358 lean condition adjustments that we need to uh research inspect and this is part of the DOR directive >> confirm or correct >> confirmed are correct um good we have
comments in our camera system some of them don't really make sense why they're there but we will be sending out letters to these residents that have these um land condition factors trying to set up inspections and determine how many some
of them are valid. Yeah. >> Um and some of them aren't. But >> just a way of explanation for both folks online and and for you Brian um we have to freeze the system at a certain point in time so that none of the data changes while we're going through the process of
creating the bills. Then once all that is done and we are happy that the we're we're satisfied that the bills we're never happy the bills are going out. We're satisfied that the bills are correct uh we then can unfreeze the system and and allow changes to occur again. So we have to build them up for
better part of a month. >> Yeah, it actually was in October. So we kind of have to freeze what we're what we're doing. We can't enter in any any changes once we submit our uh values to the department of revenue when they're approved. We can't change anything, >> right?
>> So, we try to explain this to homeowners when they come in because sometimes they get frustrated that we you can't make changes, but >> we our our numbers have to match >> our camera has to match our financial system. So, this is why we have to hold
off. And now we're at the point now where we're I did a lot split today and we're making all the changes that we made that we couldn't enter, we're entering them now. >> So >> So like a pig and a snake. >> Yeah. >> We have this pile of stuff that now
needs to be done cuz it's been building up for 3 months or two two and a half months. >> So >> So anyway, sorry to interrupt. I just want to make sure that we >> are as open as possible. >> Good explanation because a lot of people don't don't understand that. It's just
what we have to do. Um, but I have to commend Vision. Uh, they have been great to deal with and when I was away for 3 days, they actually did our what they call static. So, we freeze 20 fiscal 2026
and they actually rolled it over and created 2027 and I just had to go and update the future owners. So, >> yep, >> they did that for me without even asking. So, it's great. And um we are trying to also finalize
our map updates. Uh right >> and um that's the next thing I I'm making some changes that I couldn't make with lots and once those are done uh I will uh produce a extract so that our
vision file will match our GIS as far as addresses and all that. So we do that once a year and then what happens is they create uh well the maps create that and then they'll create our updated vision PDF of our new values. So
unfortunately we only have a PDF that updates yearly on our CAI database. >> CIA has the mapping >> is our mapping. Yeah. So, we're hoping when we upgrade to a new mapping system, it'll almost be instantaneous that
people will be able to see their record car changes. Right now, it updates once a year and if they want to see their changes, they can call the office and we have a live version, but that doesn't update instantaneously, unfortunately. So, we're hoping to get to that point.
So for anyone that hasn't read all the minutes over the last six months, we're investigating another mapping uh company or another mapping approach and it could be any number of companies but um we've investigated like three so far I think
two or three >> um not that we're dissatisfied with CI but there's limitation there are some limitations to what they can't do today >> based upon the software that they've sold us. they may have some more capabilities
as well. So >> yeah, our biggest challenge is and as you know when you know going on two years being in this position as of March, but we've had quite a few maps that haven't been updated and it's kind of an ongoing effort. Uh so there's been
quite a bit of work with CI. We have deeds that come in and that's kind of how we find out other than a homeowner coming in and tell us that >> hey my map's wrong. >> And >> well that is kind of like the fall the the the the last uh line of defense.
>> Yeah. >> The homeowner goes, "Hey, this is the problem." Oh yeah, you're right. We'll fix it. >> Yeah. And as I mentioned, I had one today that I came across that was a lot split from 2022 that wasn't done. >> Didn't get captured. >> So I captured that in. So there's a lot
of research on even our part. We have to pull a plan. It's very cumbersome and sometimes we're not engineers. So it can be difficult to interpret some of these plans and deeds because the attorneys often times copy instead of putting the
new data in they copy an old deed and that always isn't correct. So it >> and add on to it. So >> it's very difficult. Sometimes >> problems problems are multiplied >> or perpetuated, I guess, is probably the right answer. >> Um, so I'm surprised map updates wasn't
on your goals. >> I know. >> I think it is. >> I actually I actually wrote this before, >> but that's something that the past two days working aggressively on that. Cool.
>> Um, so we're also hoping to start this neighborhood directive very soon. I've had a couple of homeowners come in and complain and because of the neighborhoods and we're hoping to get to that. Uh, at this point
we have to post the what's called the special assistant to the assessor position. We have to post the position. I wrote a job description for Julie and I'm hoping within the next three weeks or a month we can get started on it because we don't have that much.
>> It's unfortunate we had to wait that long but yes. >> So we're hoping because >> we know of at least one person who will probably be applying who is very qualified. So >> there may be more but we know at least one. So
>> yeah. So, uh, we are hoping to start this fairly soon because, um, it's just going to make things, we need to get it done. It's been too long. >> Yeah. >> It's it's a requirement from the state.
>> Yeah. So, um, that's essentially an update as far as goals for next month. Um, we're working on our, uh, we've had three abadments to date. um all real estate and we're going to hopefully start the inspections and that whole
process. And I also plan to work with Randy Mercy or our mutinous consultant to revol resolve the exemption and bridging issues in this. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Cool. >> Y that's it. >> Uh the next item on the agenda is review
minutes that are completed. Um, I prefer to hold off on that until Sarah's here because she sat through most of the meetings and I have a couple of them prepared. I sent them over here late last night. >> I follow >> and we'll have more for the next time and hopefully when our other member is
no longer ill, >> um, we'll be able to make some progress on getting those posted. >> Do you want session too? >> We probably should just hold off on all of them rather. It's a little bit confusing. There is there was on the one one of the ones that I sent over
which was September 3rd. I had a question on the on the number and when I looked back at the minutes, excuse me, looked back at the video of the meeting, those were the numbers that we used. We said in total
there were in total there were 33 functional um uh 14 of which were residential, eight were commercial, and one was a town building. That's only 23. So, I don't know where the other 10 are. Or was this 10? >> Oh, >> that had already been done that you no longer counted.
>> Yeah, I think that's what it is. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> As long as I understand that, I can fix that. I just didn't understand. And um thank you. That's a big help. >> Okay. Um so, we're going move past those and go to the assessor website change. Have you had an opportunity to to look
at the the uh draft of the assessor website? >> Because I had I have >> I have got gone through it. It's it's been available to us now for several months with not very many
changes proposed. So I figured I'd make sure and go through it in detail. And if I can find a little piece of paper, I'll be far ahead of the game. Oh, so this this is a layout of what the right left hand side of the thing looks
like. Includes parcel maps. Um, I had no trouble with a couple of them. The the first one I had a problem with was the on the assessed values. >> Mhm. >> We have three years and there are comparison years. So, there's really four years. But the format on the the
newest one is different than the format on the other two. So if you were to try to compare, if any uh citizen taxpayer were trying to compare, they wouldn't be able to compare. So we need to be consistent on whatever the format is. I don't know if we can go
back and regenerate the old report. >> Yeah. >> In the new format. I think the most likely answer is to generate the new data in the old format. So that's just it's inconsistent and I think for readability it makes sense to have them
be consistent. Uh the under the chapter land there's a pointer to the uh current chapter uh information that is UMass and when you bring it up it says page not found.
>> Oh okay. >> Which is a problem. >> That's the link. Yeah. >> Uh well it says page not found but there's a whole bunch of links on that page too. So, I don't understand. It says page not found and there's a bunch of stuff with it. I was like, I think that's the stuff we're looking for. It just says page not found. Okay.
>> Odd. >> Wow. >> You know, >> I having been a software engineer and worked in web development etc. Page man found could be simply referring to a little bit that goes into the current
page. >> Right. But when our citizens start going in there, if they go page not found, I think there may be some questions. So, we need to look at it and see what we can do about getting it fixed. Um, all the way down to motor vehicle
excise. Uh, on the first page of that is info and at at one point it says Lunberg, but at another point it says if it's not if if the car is no longer um um garageed
in air. >> I'm thinking maybe there was some stealing going on. >> I don't mean stealing cars. that A was in air. So I took that. >> Wonder where that came from my website.
So we'll change that. >> Oh dear. >> We all do our assesses. We all take our stuff that we work on which is kind of nice if we >> Yeah. Oh no. I think you guys as a community you guys share a lot between each other. So I think that's fabulous
because there's a hell of a lot more expertise out there than us. just needs to >> just it says air. Let's take that one out of there. Um on the one that says parcel maps, >> y >> it's very difficult to read. Um there's
a cover and that's okay. I can read the cover and then there's a legend. When I print off the legend, I get that which is a blank legend page. >> Oh no. Okay. Um, and then there are, I think, 70 other maps all over the place
under there. And I can't tell where any of them are because it's it's very difficult to read. >> Okay. >> I I don't know where that one came from, by the way. It's It says parcel maps and it just doesn't >> I think it needs to it should be linking to our GIS.
>> I think it's linked to the wrong place, honestly. Yeah. >> But so um >> um under personal next one's personal property. Personal property. Um it has it has the forms of list which I think is great because that's personal
property. >> Uh it also has the real estate abatement form there. >> Okay. >> I'm not sure it belongs there. >> Well, you >> I get it. It's the same form. >> Yeah. But I I honestly as I went through
this the thought the think the thinking here was maybe we should have all exemptions and abatements in one place here as a sort of a header. It's not
I know there is we'll get there. >> Oh it's from Yeah. >> Well it says real estate abatement but if we put >> and that's nonexemptions. So, I really suggest we put exemptions and abatements sort of together >> somehow. I don't know what that means as
far as what it looks like. >> And I don't want to >> predefine it. Um, under >> Well, even if we do personal property in the real estate abatement, maybe we put that together because exemptions isn't abatements.
>> Correct. >> Confuse people. >> Correct. But but if you're looking to get some money back, you're going to probably look at exemptions and abatements. >> Yeah. >> Some people don't know the difference. >> Yeah. >> Or can't articulate the difference, >> but they know they want to get some
money back. So, it just might might make it more readable. And that's just a suggestion for something >> or whatever. Uh the senior text exemption presentation
>> is great. Um there's a um oh so this is the real estate exemption. So we talked about maybe putting those together. We have the senior tax exemption and then we have later on we have the senior tax work off thing. I was wondering if maybe we should put
senior things together too. >> Yeah. >> Just a thought. I I I really like the design. Maybe it's just you know how we aggregate stuff. Um the one that says tax rates
um and by the way registrated deeds that all that was all fine. That was great. Um tax rates uh it brings you to the gateway for the state but it defaults to 2024 >> not 2025.
>> Yeah. >> There were like three different choices. Uh, one was tax rate, one was recap, one was uh levy. And maybe we should put something on our page that says remember to choose your year rather than trying to fix the other end.
>> Yeah. >> Just maybe say something like try try to choose your year. Having said that, I could choose 2024. I couldn't choose 2025. When I first brought the tax rate up, it came up as 2026. I'm not sure we're
we're there yet. >> I know. >> Well, we should have our list, >> but the second time I went back to it, it went it defaulted to 2024. >> So, that one needs a little bit of finesse. >> Okay. >> But the rest of it looks great. So, it sounded like I made a lot of changes. I
didn't really make a lot of changes. Couple suggestions. Senior stuff to go together. Abatement and probably exemption stuff together. >> Uh I think that would make the whole thing way more readable. the uh the parcel maps is kind of a mess. So, we
need to fix out where fix up where we point that and then the stuff that we point back to the state. We got to give a little explanation somewhere. >> Yeah. >> Other than that, great. >> Okay. >> Great. I'm so happy. >> We'll make it. We'll um
>> So, you want to leave this? You don't need this. >> We'll um sit down with Cara. I know we're always been working with her and she did ask me for an update today. I said we're meeting tonight. So hopefully. >> So you mentioned Cara. I'm going to go off off script alto together. Something we mentioned quite some time ago is we
we have an uh agenda page that also has minutes. So it has dates on it. Mhm. >> But if you want to try to get to a video, you then have to go over to this to the YouTube and in order to get to a specific date video, you have to scroll
down to Oh my god, forever. Yeah. >> 6 months of stuff before you get to the one you want. If it's if it's in the back in the past, um I'd love to have some way to point the video, have a pointer to the video for that date. um
and just click on it because that make the that make >> copy the URL >> that that make the whole page here's here's what's been going on. >> Yeah. >> So that's a off this topic but sort of >> still
>> related. >> Right. Okay. I'll I'll ask her. >> And when you peel her off the ceiling cuz she's going to go, "How am I supposed to do that?" And I get it. I don't know. I think maybe this it's as simple as a URL, but I don't know that.
>> Copyr C. >> I know. >> Then paste V. >> I know. >> I I know. So, thank you. I got that one. I got that one. Okay, good. So, that's all I have
to say about the website. >> Okay, good. No, no. I'm I'm really thankful that you looked at it because we do want to >> Well, I'd like to close it and we've just been so busy as we headed up to the end of the year to getting the tax bills
out >> and our inability to meet because we had didn't have enough members. We would have not been able to meet tonight if Brian hadn't put his hand in the air recently and said, >> "I can help." And you know what? You can. Yeah,
>> I am very glad that I can. >> So, um yeah, good. >> Uh I think the next item you we've moved on to the list is the FY27 overlay and growth estimates estimates.
Um so I would I'm going to let you lead the conversation first. >> So um thank you by by the way for your input on some of the emails you >> last night. did a little bit of research >> on the history of our overlay situation >> um with the state just taking the state
numbers directly. So uh so this way when who's busier than a one paper hanger doesn't have to go do that research. >> So Jen had asked for uh our growth estimate. The past two years we've estimated 400,000 >> right >> for new growth. I think we should keep
it the same just because >> we don't know anything new. No, we don't know anything new. And Brian Jingris did comment on a couple of some projects coming up that >> Well, you comment on one that might actually be hitting next year. >> Yeah. >> Not huge, >> right? >> Um and then the rest of it is just the
normal uh residential and commercial improvements. >> So, uh I wouldn't expect that our growth would be any higher than it has been. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if our growth was lower. Now having said that, our growth this year was 532
>> or 5 518. >> 5 whatever. Yeah, 518. >> Oh, you got right there. >> And then >> Oh, yeah. A whole lot. >> Well, I tried to copy everything so we could discuss it. So, in 25 it was 527, but in 24 it was 630,000
and that was for a lot of properties that weren't picked up. So, I mean, I I tend to be more conservative. I would stick with the 400 just because we don't know. It does appear that things might be >> we should be somewhat conservative because you don't want to put in an
estimate that's too high and find out that we come in short of it. >> We're not building another Amazon shipping site like we did down there. >> Is that road? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's obvious that it was intended to be >> Well, that was what intended to be. Yep.
>> Never did. I don't know what's going to happen. >> Amazon stayed in Littleton. >> Yeah. And I think this we just we haven't had any new >> but I got my new phone case in one day so I I'm okay. [Laughter]
>> Um so uh I think I would entertain a motion to maintain 400,000 as our projected growth new growth for this year. I don't see any argument or I'll I'll
make that uh motion. You can second it if you so choose. >> And then any further discussion? >> I have none. Hearing none. All in favor? >> No. >> Okay. The two Brian said 400,000. We're going with what you suggested because
>> nobody knows any more than you do about that. >> You all know far more than me. Well, >> on the details. >> No. Yeah, probably not the law >> conceptual, >> right? Okay. So, that's
>> that's at least for now the overlay. Uh, so the overlay. >> Do you have anything to hand out that Brian? >> I do. I actually >> Well, I have to have you sign this for money.
This is all of our >> extensions. >> We'll do that. >> It was part kind of part of the overlay cuz these overlay you want to wait till after. >> But you know how much that is. >> Yeah. >> So, okay. >> We're talking about the overlay for next year projected and then we could talk
about those things that need to be signed for this year. >> Well, we we could have done them out of order, but we went through this. I'm sorry. >> No, no, it's fine. So we estimated or budgeted for 175,000 >> for this year this year
>> locally and find an email but again our fogyear history was a little skewed by what happened in 2023 >> 2022 >> or 2022 >> um I think it's just 2022 right so
there's the other thing >> what happened all the for all the lake folks. >> Yeah, >> we had >> we had to actually transfer in $1.3 million to our overlay account so that we could pay for the abatements that
needed to be done and they needed to be done. So >> we had 422 abatements and it was it was actually fiscal 2023. >> Most years well >> at 2022 >> it was the 22 tax but yes >> um
most years we get somewhere around 40 35 to 40. >> Yeah. >> And that year we got 10 times more 11 times more. >> Right. um something to do with the perceived increase in the taxes for the
people living on the lake. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yep. And it was it was not just perceived. I mean they got a really huge hit that one year. Um >> and I won't go into that anymore. >> That was conversation.
>> It was a fiasco. >> Um and it cost the town 1.3 million bucks. Yeah. >> Wow. >> Because no one else's taxes went up that year, so we had to take it from somewhere, >> right? Um, so 1.3 million was
transferred into the overlay and we w spending pretty much all 1.3 million of it. Uh, we had a little bit extra, so we still have a savings account in the overlay. Historically, overlays were done year to year to year to year. And
if you had money left in an overlay from prior year, you could then try to transfer it out. Uh the state changed their methodology a couple of years ago and so now we have one overlay account, but so we're trying to so we have some
monies that have been not expended yet and are still in that account. So we have a little bit of a buffer. Um and we have a history of what we've done for those norm I'll call them normal years. Um and that was what uh one
>> 145 >> yeah 145 150 somewhere >> in there. >> Um having said that since everything is more expensive vitamins are going to probably move up over time anyway. And
then we we opened up the uh criteria loosened the criteria for people who might access some of the exemptions, several of them. That's actually things one of the things we've been fixing since we got here. Um, so that should
that should mean that we'll be spending more out of the overlay for that. And then we uh the legislation was passed a year ago, right? Uh that for the senior means tested tax exemption.
Um, last year we only had six people who qualified. We think there's a lot more people out there that can apply and will actually utilize that. Um, so I I left it up to Linda with all her
expertise to come up with some kind of idea of how many people we might expect. And assuming that the amount of money is going to be about the same, probably a little more, but not um >> I do think 175 is too low because
>> so let's just talk about the senior means tested piece because that's the the 175 is probably tight with normal growth and with the stuff that we've done and then we have the senior means tested stuff that's on top of it. So I just wanted to finish the conversation on senior means tested.
Yeah, we had a total this year of $16,380 of exemptions for the human needs which consisted of three residents, >> six applications, >> u sorry, six applications that we had. Eight people applied,
>> six were >> six were approved. >> Six were approved. >> So, we did do a presentation at the senior center. We didn't have there wasn't a a very large window for the application process because we had to get this
together last minute. So maybe we'll have more applicants this year. >> Oh, I would expect more. I just don't know. >> Yeah. >> Is it a is it a factor of magnitude of some kind? Is it three times, four times? I don't know if it's going to be magnitude, but the the biggest
>> criteria for that is people have to have received the circuit breaker, >> right, >> on their tax return. So, if they haven't received the circuit breaker, they're not going to qualify for that exemption. >> The circuit breaker. >> Circuit breaker. >> That's income tax related
>> uh which which you don't qualify for. I don't qualify for, but a lot of people do if they have a lower income especially >> and a fairly low uh asset base. Um they can they can qualify for a circuit breaker which actually uh results in a
larger tax refund for them and a size sizable meaning more than a couple thousand bucks. >> Yeah. Um, so those people who have applied for that can now apply for this. If they haven't applied for it or they haven't
been granted it, then they can't apply for this. >> We don't know how many people have circuit breaker in town. So, it's a it's a guess. >> Yeah. >> Um, actually last year I expected we'd get 10 or more. We we got eight applicants,
six six of whom were qualified. Um, I don't know how you think 25. >> I mean, I'm just throwing numbers out looking for >> it. It's >> Have you heard any talk? >> I haven't heard any talk. I know we've
tried to create awareness because a lot of people aren't familiar with what the circuit breaker is >> and that >> includes me. >> And we don't we do not handle the circuit breaker in our office. It's done by a tax repairer. So the tax when at
the time when they have the taxes done, they should inquire and there's income limitations. I believe it's 70,000 if you're single >> uh 90 something if you're married and the income >> but the the tax the circuit breaker limit is for whatever the single one is.
>> Right. >> So that's for the mean >> 72,000 I think it was last year or something like that. >> Yes. So, it's I mean it's not >> I mean I said you don't qualify. Actually, you might. I don't have any idea, but uh I don't.
>> Yeah. I mean, social security and what $30,000 >> job working at a school. >> Yep. That's it. >> Yeah. Somebody I mean cuz that is actually a >> I mean it's not low income the circuit
breaker levels. It's not it's it's it's >> I wouldn't call it income. I'd call it payment for asking to put in money for >> but but as far as a income statement and for your taxes tax tax purposes it's considered income. >> So that's why we use that phrase but you're right it's not it's not like it's
a yeah >> it's not like it's 20,000 right some of >> our well and actually one of our exe one of our was it a deferral? No, it was a >> 41A. >> It was for for the deferral. >> Yeah.
>> Um the the income limit was 20,000. It's been that it was that way for decades >> until we discovered that it was 20,000. So, we've now fixed it. >> But, you know, those are the things we've been fixing at town meetings for the last two years. >> Um, good to know. So the question
becomes one of, you know, how many do we really expect if if we're going to do something that looks like 27 or $2,800 per person or per applicant and how many applicants might we have? So what is our exposure? Um and you know,
could it be 25? I don't know. I'm just looking to you to give >> it might be I mean last year, like I said, we had eight we um >> eight applicants. >> Eight applicants that applied. We might have more people that may not have been aware. Again, I I I did try to notify
the senior center. We had like a little checklist and all that to try to notify people of it. So, maybe we double it to 16 as an estimate. I I don't think we're going to have 100. >> Oh, I don't. >> We could. I don't think we will.
>> I agree with you. But >> we didn't. >> And some people don't want to expose their income. >> Yeah. to you know and basically they have to otherwise we can't prove that they don't have enough income and are then qualified for this uh tax break property
tax break. Um so I don't know you said 16 would you be comfortable with 20 just cuz I'm a little concerned that if we under >> shoot this guy we are yeah >> a problem. So if we do 20 >> and assuming that it's something like
the 730, maybe it's 7 2750 this year. I don't know. >> We'll go pick that time 20. So that's 55,000. >> And that's on top of what we think might be tight at the 175, >> right? >> So that gives you it does an additional
38,000 a month if if we had 20. The the other thing is we added cola. So, and as I I mentioned um when I ran this report today and I did verify it
with our um fill in finance director um just for our exemptions so far is 166,000 >> which seems high but okay >> but it's this is everything
>> and if we do abatements I don't know what portion of our over uh overlay went to exemp mentions last year versus uh abatements. I don't know how to tell that. >> I guess we must have that summary. >> I I do have those numbers, but I would
we don't even know how many abatements we're going to have. >> No. Well, and that's that's that's why they're looking to us to guess. >> So, if we go by last year, we had 37 um as far as the the amount month that we
had. that these these are abatement applications or these approvals approved these are >> yeah we have the board would approve the abatements so >> so the the number that she quoted was the amount that the number that we
approved a a failed application is doesn't mean anything to this process we're just we don't have money aside for it because it's a failed application >> or denied I shouldn't say failed Um, >> and we don't know what those amounts are
going to be because it it depends on a lot of >> and a denied application. The the next step for anybody is the ATB. I don't think we have any outstanding ATB cases today. >> Yeah, >> we we kept discovering them over the
past two years and and in the summer I think we wrapped up the last one or was it in the spring? But anyway, uh we we had no outstanding ATB cases. So that means that people who were denied felt they were treated fairly or didn't feel
like that they needed to follow up and they probably didn't feel treated fairly, but um they didn't feel that they they had a a good enough case to follow up. Um but we do we do get ATB cases every now and then. So we those
all come out of a overlay. So ATB comes out of Overlay. That's the appellet tax board for those of you who are watching. Um abatements come out of there. Exemptions come out of there. Um and
the senior means tested thing we really need to talk about because we allowed it to come out of there last year. It shouldn't, but we may need to do that again because we just don't have a methodology or process to to uh what's it called to sh uh split split the tax
rate or shift it. >> Shift it. That's the word for we don't have right now. We don't have a process to shift the taxes from those people who got their senior means tested tax break um to the rest of the taxpayers. So, the
easiest way to the most straightforward way to do that with our finance system is to just make sure that money's in the overlay and then take it out of the overlay. >> That way, everybody's paying on average for it as well. >> So, >> and we only had six applicants, so I
mean it wasn't >> So, the implications were only $16,000 or whatever. So we had plenty of money a set aside in our I'll call it savings account >> for overlay. So, so if we assume 20 and we should we
should note these someplace or >> so >> we're going to assume 20 >> yep >> uh >> so >> senior means tested >> or 55,000 let's say 55,000 total >> that's fine >> for that
>> uh that we will increase the 175 we probably would have needed to increase anyway because of how because of opening up the the the uh limits for the exemptions um and
you know inflation. So uh what you come up with was uh 55 I'm sorry >> 55,000 for 20 uh applicants >> 55 and we had 175 that's 130.
>> Yep. And we probably want to show some grow some inflation on that 130. I mean 230, right? >> Yep. And >> and then we got to figure out >> what do you think inflation's going to do this year?
>> Part of me says uh part of me says >> I don't know. Yeah, >> I don't know. >> So we have to make a swag. And if I were swag in it, which was only a swag, and somebody could tell me I'm completely wrong, um I would think maybe
we should think like a 3%. Um inflation, and maybe it's more, maybe it's less, but >> people are paying far more for food, gas, and >> right,
>> cars. >> So some things have gone way up, some things have not. oil, the heat with roping, the heat with electricity, it's gotten very expensive. >> Oh, that's true, too. So, you want to make a a higher assessment of the So, if
we if we we're now sitting at 230 >> and 6,900 for 3% of that. So, if we >> the wild card is our our maintenance. We don't >> and we we don't we can't know what they're going to be. >> No. But assuming that the because we I
think did a pretty thorough job this year and nobody got no almost no one got a large surprise except those people who had some improvements to their home and they shouldn't be surprised. >> Um I think there weren't that many huge
surprises. So uh you know we probably going to get the same maybe we get 40 which again is a a >> be typical 8 to 10% growth in the number >> Yeah. of the baitments. So if we were looking at Does anybody does anybody
squeamish with 250? I'm not throwing number out. >> I might go 260. That's just my >> We're looking for your advice because you are the expert. >> Just just because we don't know. Um,
if I add the 3% to that and that brings us to like 2369, we we have to allow some money for the abatements. So, I mean, >> but we are but >> we're not adding we're not adding that much for abatements just based on
>> Okay. So, you're recommending 260? I think we should do >> you squeamish with 260? >> No. >> Nei neither am I. >> So, uh, I'll make a motion that we set our target for the overlay at 260
$260,000 um for FY27. I second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor? It's unanimous for both the Bryants.
>> Thank you. >> Brian and Squared. >> Well, this is one of those things when we had that last year, we had a really difficult discussion about how much it should be and we we were all over the map. I mean, >> one of our members wanted to make it
much much larger, and I'm like, I don't think we need it, but >> yeah. >> Um, and you know, we finally settled on a number. >> Yeah. >> And it really depends on a lot of factors that we just don't really have any
estimated knowledge of at the time. So, it's gamble. >> And you don't want to put too much into overlay because you really can't use it for anything else. >> No. >> Yeah. >> Who can? You don't want to underestimate it by a lot because then you've got to go start tapping other sources of revenue that don't exist.
>> Correct. >> And just looking at what we have so far for exemptions, I think it >> well the exemptions >> that this is the first time I've seen that exemption number and it just feels like it might be somehow inflated, but I
don't know that. And having said that, the only data we have in front of us is this. Last year when we got the the number of how much had been spent from the uh from the overlay account from the finance team, they they they thought we
had spent 255,000. I was like, I don't think we have. So, what we found was um when we actually got the report from the state, it's 135 or 140,000 like kind of like we expected.
>> So, Uh to answer your question from LA last year's numbers, we had 127 exemptions. >> Yep. >> And we abated uh we we granted uh 128,000 roughly. >> So, thousand bucks first.
>> Yeah. And then I wanted to note on that column, the far right column. >> Yep. >> The state reimburses us. This is their max. So, as you can see, far >> that reimbursement doesn't come back to us, >> right? It goes into the general fund. So I I I don't count that. It's part of the
planning for the finance team, but it doesn't count. >> Yeah. Doesn't help us >> for us. Right. >> Right. >> So it's it's interesting to know. >> Yeah. >> And thank God that you know it looks like 70 60 to 70% of it is is refunded. That great thanks.
>> Yeah. the senior means testing uh any any of the stuff that we've increased beyond what the state recommend original state recommendation was we won't get back. So you this percentage next year is going to be less. >> Yeah.
>> The percentage is really between how much we spent out of overlay uh for exemptions and how much we were reimbursed. Um, I don't know if that number is off the top, but >> but that just kind of shows you we do have the increase from last year. Y
>> and that probably has a lot to do with the cola and some of the other exemptions that we've increased. And >> so this was our total exemptions >> the last year of 129,000. >> Yep. >> And all we spent including all the
abatements was >> 140. We didn't have much for abatements last year. >> I'm actually thinking that we may be in the same situation this year, but okay. >> Yeah, >> but we do have the the senior means tested >> Yeah. >> exemption. So,
>> so if I take that off of um if I take that amount off of the 160 >> just see what that is. 166. >> Oh, the reimbursement amount. No, if I take that out of the the exemptions. Hold on for a second.
>> It's about >> It's 16380. That was the senior means. I'm just trying to figure >> Oh, from last year it would have been without the >> Yeah. of the other exemptions the increase. >> Yep. >> I think it was >> Well, it was 160. So, it' be 144.
>> Yeah. 1638. So actually 149 149,000 for based on the 166 >> 166 and we took Oh, we took 16 off 166. >> That's what I did 16 380. >> So that's Yeah. 149. Yep.
>> So 149 is >> what we think we spent in for real on exemptions, >> right? But we still have till April >> to get >> So we have other people that may come in so that exemptions and we still have the abatements to pay for. >> Yeah.
>> Whatever abatements there are. >> So, >> okay. >> That has increased, but >> it's a it's an unfortunately large number. >> Yeah. >> And I'm hoping we're proven wrong. >> I hope so, too. And we've tried to do I mean even before the bills went out we
we're encouraging people to look at their record card call us with any questions to at least try to educate people before so that we'll reduce the number of babies. We try to do that.
>> Cool. So we we landed on 260. >> Yep. >> And and broke we landed on a 400 again. Yep. >> Perfect. >> Okay. I will let Jen know.
>> Yeah. Will you copy me on the note you sent her? >> I will. >> The whole team the whole team could be copied if if you want, but it's up to you. The whole we could she Linda could copy all of us as board members. I
definitely want to be copied as the chair on the note that goes back to the town manager about our decision on those two items. So, and you don't have to get it if you don't want. It's up to you. It's it's it's bits.
>> Sorry. What? >> It's bits. There's only some bits out there. You're not going to >> bits. >> You're not going to type it out. It's going to be in your in your in your email. >> So, it's up to you if you want to >> in the bids. Okay.
>> Oh, there it is. Can I have you sign these? Um, >> so now we can move into that item. Uh, this was >> Well, yeah, this signatures. We should have actually done the signatures earlier. So, you have been satisfied. >> This this it's fine. This is for the the
tax collector and the um accounting officer. They want um what we have uh granted. So we have to provide signatures when we process them in unice. So this is just a
record and she requested this. Um >> so we have to do multiple copies. >> Yep. >> So what you have there I think I have here. >> Yep. Same thing. >> Um so we'll sign this on the Today is the 7th, right?
>> Yeah. This is just for >> seventh day. >> We need to provide that in case we get audit right now for our audit. Yeah. >> To show the documentation. >> There will be an audit at some point. There's always an audit. >> The state will come after us. I'm sure. >> Yeah. Well, the way like I explained to
the tax collector, we had to put these in manually. So, even though we received these starting people apply typically after the fiscal year. >> So, what's attached to this is all the supporting documentation that gives you the back that top sheet >> and then the total. So this is the
breakdown here of all of these all of these exemptions are all contained in these pages here. >> You you haven't gone through the exemptions yet. So there's what eight or 10 different exemptions. >> Yeah, >> there's a whole bunch of 22s and a couple of 17s and 41s and
>> Yeah, we have 22Ds which is a full exemption. >> Yeah, I haven't gotten into exemption. >> That's okay. So >> you are qualified to sign this though. Yeah, sorry. >> So, there's the reasons, the exemptions,
the >> and these are exemptions that we've reviewed in executive session over the past several months. >> They've already been approved. This is just kind of a formality. >> It's a summary of the approvals. >> Okay. So, I should scribble. So, if you
could sign uh and then I'm going to have you sign this one. >> The second block. >> Yeah, >> you can sign anywhere you want. >> Yeah, if if you want to sign a second block to be consistent with that copy. >> Mhm. >> And then I'll give that one to Brian and
>> and then you can sign this one. >> Thank you. Today is the seventh day. >> Oh, I also have the while we're signing, >> I also need the warrant signed as well.
>> Thank you. So, that one's all set. >> And I think that one's all set. >> Okay. Do >> we have any any other exemptions to sign? >> Um, we have them for executive session to review, but nothing to >> those are approved. But I do have the um >> the warrant
>> the warrants. So and this is for >> explain what the warrant is. So >> So this is for the the tax bills that just went out. We have to issue the warrant to the tax collector so she can
collect the money. >> So this is that and then this is the notice of commitment to the accounting officer. So both of these have the real estate portion and then we have one for personal property the same warrant and tax collector
>> and again we don't have to vote on it your signature as you vote. >> Yeah. >> Got it. >> And in the last meeting I did provide the uh documentation for uh for these members and I do have that if if you have any questions on that. >> Nope.
>> So >> so you would just sign >> sign where I am at. >> Yeah. I think that's it. Executive. Yes, I did actually copies of this. So, this is this is the same thing. Yeah,
another copy. So we keep a copy of all these and then we give a copy again to the tax collector and then they officer in our office. We have binders that actually got all this. >> Yeah, it's paper. We love having paper.
It's like an insurance company. Got to have paper. We >> do. Okay. >> You say there was a third copy of this. >> Yeah, I have a third copy. Yeah. I've got I've signed two. >> Yeah, this one's the personal property.
It has two more of the same same thing. >> I'm signed already, huh? >> Yep. This is just additional property. What are you saying on that one? So, that one's Oh, this one you didn't sign, right? >> Okay. criteria for clause 18. I actually did
go out and find two communities that have criteria for clause 18. Clause 18 is completely at the discretion of the assessors. It's an it's an exemption.
Yep. It's an exemption that is completely at the discretion of the of the assessors for hardship especially military or aged. They the state didn't define how old.
They didn't decide they didn't determine how infirm and they didn't determine how much of a financial hardship there needed to be. That is completely it. >> Those three things they didn't do. They they just said you guys then have this
cart blanch for this one. Not to be used on a regular basis, but if there's somebody in a really tough situation, we haven't had any in the last several years honestly. Um we've had one or two that I thought maybe might have qualified but
didn't apply. So there were a couple that I knew that could have applied. >> Yep. So, um, what they what we do have to have though are criteria. What what are the criteria that we're using to make our decision so that we treat our
taxpayers equally? We don't have any criteria. I looked around the state for hours. I had done this before and only found one or two. And last night I spent hours and hours and hours and I looked through
about 120 communities looking for criteria. I found two Secon and Gloucester both ocean interest. I don't know why, but just happens to be uh the C comp one
is actually fairly uh well laid out. Um, but they have a maximum amount of their quas 18 of $900, which
if if you're worried about losing your home or not being able to pay your taxes, $900 ain't going to help you in sec. But what do I know? Uh, but they also they do have uh whole assets excluding the doicile like $40,000 for
single, 50,000 for married. um gross incomes between $20,000 of single or $30,000 of married. So they're very >> very low. >> It's be hard to beat that meet that not >> so I'll leave this one with you. This is Secon.
>> This one is Gloucester and theirs is a little more. It's just a just a little chart here. Um, and their maximum allowable assets were $30,000 outside of the doicile and the maximum allowable income was $13,000.
So, they both have very low limits to to qualify for uh check to be to be uh clause 18 eligible. No, I could say it. Um,
>> I'm not sure we want to be quite that low, but it should be fairly low because this is going to be something that only occurs when somebody's in a severe hardship. And usually, many of the notes that I saw from most communities said this would
only be used for one year, >> one time. >> So, it's a one time get somebody through a hardship ser period of some kind. So, it would have to be a real hardship. It'd have to be really short term. Um there is also an 18A.
>> Yeah, >> that is a deferral. Um which again you'd have to be in somewhat of a hardship, but you could defer your taxes. It's not the 41A deferral, but similar to that. But the but 18, these were the only two
that I found that actually had data criteria. People do grant them. Boards of assessors do grant them. Um but they don't they have to ask for income information uh you know what is your infirmity or
what difficulty you having you know so they they and what's your age so they have they ask all those questions but then I don't know how they decide that yeah this one's okay and that one's not I don't know I don't I'm sick of looking at it
honestly >> do you think it would be like a situ situational >> it is it's going to be mostly situational we would we would make a decision based on our own judgment without having criteria. >> The state encourages us to put together
criteria but as I said >> out of the 10und and something that out there I think it was about 120 there were two >> nobody else has criteria. >> Yeah. >> So maybe we leave it without criteria. We wait for an application to come in.
Um, clearly these are dire straits >> numbers. $20,000 of income, 15 uh, $13,000 of income is somebody's in pretty dire straits. So, uh, yeah. >> So, that doesn't include social security.
>> Well, they somebody might not be collecting social security. They didn't work a job. uh their their job was not one out there that don't pay into social security, don't pay into FICA. Um there are some jobs in there where you know you didn't work long enough and then you something
happened to you and you have an infirmity that you can't work and you know there may be some people out there who are not collecting very much money at all and still own a home. So they're they're liable for their taxes and we could give
them a potential one time break with a plus 18. >> So they have to have a home. >> They have to have home. Yep. Yeah. >> You can't give people a tax break on their property if they don't have
property. >> They're not going to get the tax break on their car. >> Right. Right. They're not getting the tax break on their car because they still have to pay their >> excise >> excise taxes. >> Yeah. >> So, that's what I found.
>> I don't know if there's anything else out there. Um, put that in a folder someplace and we can decide next time with Sarah if we want to put together something that is so desperately wo >> Yeah. or something else or just leave it
to in discretion of the board. I hate being in a situation where I have to make a decision without any data. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Um but in some cases maybe you just wait and see what the data is that comes in and then you make a decision based on
that. So, so we could talk about that again at the next meeting, I think, and and uh come to some kind of conclusion. I don't know if you want to share that with the rest of the team cuz Sarah won't have seen this. >> Yeah. >> Um but and maybe I misread some of it.
If you would re reread it, make sure that I'm not just >> Yeah, >> because it was 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning when I found one of those. I had a hard time finding information from what I was told from a couple of assessors is >> it's not really >> when you go to your assessor conferences
somebody out there has them. >> Yeah. >> It's just >> situational type thing and they the board will vote and determine based on >> the situation. Y
>> um I emailed you my budget. I know going a little off topic. It was kind of late in the day. Uh so I have copies of that. I don't know if you want to throw that away for Sarah. We can do that. I copied all three of you on it. >> If you want to do uh I'm going to give
us the highlights and and then and give us a copy. I think we'll go from there. >> So we do all this budgeting for the town budget. We have to figure out how much the new growth is going to be, etc. But then there's also we got to run the office and how we do that. So, I'll kind
of summarize it. Um, so this is just kind of a chart. We have a meeting on uh Monday night. >> We for the various town hall departments and we will be reviewing >> meeting with whom? >> Um, town manager. I believe it's the finance committee.
>> It's called tri board. So, we will be >> Oh, okay. >> I I just didn't know who we were. Yeah. We >> 7 o'clock on Monday. So, if um >> you get to work overtime. >> Yeah. Yep. So, she had asked that we prepare this. Um, >> she didn't tell me. >> Yes. Sorry.
>> You use a lot of pronouns and I just I'm going to break you up pronouns because I don't know who you talk about. crazy me that um but she had wanted us to each department to put together their budget
and this actually has the fiscal 24 what the actual was 25 uh 26 budget and then what I'm estimating for 27 and then I actually the other two pages were the count description for the past
um the allocation for 26 and what's requested for 27. So you can see the change. So just based on the changes from fiscal 26, uh actually a measure now measure and list went down 11%. We're we're trying to do more >> inhouse >> inhouse.
>> Well, and that >> the whole point of that was we we hired a a data collector. So we don't have to pay somebody else to go collect that data. >> So our measuring list goes down, but the salaries go up. >> Yes. But we have more control >> about what they do.
>> Um, our contract services, um, inflation is part of the increase and then we're adding Randy Mercier to our budget, which wasn't added in the past. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> I'm glad you held for him on that one. >> Yeah. >> Ry's Ry's been invaluable as a Munice
uh, contractor because he he gets it. >> Yeah. And even though Munis isn't our Bailey Wick, the the confluence of of KMA and finance systems is where he's really strong. >> Yeah.
>> So, he's been very invaluable. >> And we had problems with the tax billing and I feel like I mentioned the bridge if we didn't have him. I mean, you take the chance with with the bills. I know one of the one of the
years, the first year I started it was an absolute idea. >> That's okay. We didn't send the bills out till April 1st because we knew we couldn't make it for January 1. >> And that's the that's the the danger. And I do know that a lot of towns uh had
difficulty this year. >> By the way, by law, we have to do it by January 1. We had to get a we had to get a formal waiver from the state to go out to April, that one year. That was the year with the abatement fiasco. >> Yeah,
>> that was the year that I got mine with the two quarters on one sheet of paper that I didn't realize. >> You aren't the only one. A whole bunch of people did that. Some people wound up in a situation where they were shocked
when when their escrow was redone the next year. I mean, I got I got this notice that said, "Hey, you owe us." And I was like, >> "What? >> I paid it all."
>> Yep. Well, how' you like how would you like to have those? >> I didn't realize that that those darn you know, payment requests had two quarters on that one sheet. And how would you like to have had that and have your your
tax bill go up by 30% per quarter? >> Yeah. >> Or 40% per quarter. We had several people that were in situations where it was 40 50% increases in their taxes and had to pay twice like and they had they had like 30 days to pay it. Where
you going to get that money? >> Yeah. It was a >> It was It was a I keep using the word fiasco because there was so many things that were broken about that. >> It was a crisis. I I refer to it as a crisis because I keep it. >> Yes, it was a crisis.
>> We've um we've cleaned up a lot from from that. We still continue to do that. But so as far as our contracted services, um there's been some inflation. We've added Randy Murcia. Um,
we have vision. Uh, I kept money in there for the contract because we do, uh, contract support in case we have some at, not ATV, that's some, uh, abatements that may need some expertise of, uh, another consultant or another
assessment that has commercial. >> So, I like >> vision appraisal services, right? >> Is that what it's called? >> Uh, vision appraisal. >> Yeah. and and also Reena had in the past had provided a lot more support. That number has actually gone down as far as contract. But
>> again, like >> we're trying to get commercial experience uh because we we have some commercial properties, but Denise and I both have residential appraisal licenses. So, our expertise isn't in commercial, but we we
are attempting to like we've been able to keep in some other properties and we car dealership and we >> recognize that 91% of our properties are residential anyway. So, we have the expertise to cover that. It's just the when something else comes up, we we need
to establish that expertise in house. >> Yeah. >> So, forgive me. I have I have one question because when I was going through these tests >> here. Back in one of the earlier ones here, it
said that houses had to be reviewed and appraised, every single one of them in the town every 10 years. >> Correct. >> That's correct. >> It has never happened to me in the 30 years I've been in Lunberg. There's a
distinct possibility that somebody drove up your driveway, took a quick picture, and drove away. Never told you, >> but that does not include what it said >> in here. >> It said you have to go in the house and
evaluate how might have been improved >> where a homeowner allows you in the house because they can record, they can tell you that you can't come in. They have erect privacy. So assessors are working walking a fine line in that they're
trying to get as much information about the property as possible without being a burden upon the property owner. Having said that, there are many cases when people will say, "Sure, come on in." There are other cases when they say no. We've had people that come forward with an uh abatement
request and then not let us in the house. So guess what? We get to assume whatever we want to assume about the house. So, so if if you don't want us in your house, don't file for an abatement. >> Okay. >> Um, but >> what what's the addition of metal roofs?
>> Is that an incredible increase in the value of a property? Because a roof lasts nearly a hundred years as opposed to something that's now only lasting 8 to 10. >> We have we have costs in our canvas system that differentiate between all
the differences. Um, but I will say we try to use MLS and what whatever information we can get. If we can't get into the house, we try to get photos from the MLS and that helps us to make sure our property property records.
>> It's easier when there's been a sale. >> Way easier with the sale. >> Uh, we do inspect sales also. That's another program that the do uh they want us to review our sales. So we do have a program that we do send out a postcard
and we follow up with an inspection. So and I and I will say that in some cases with the last functional and economic we had these all of these adjustments in our canvas system. We went through and inspected I
think there was >> so there were adjustments in some cases reducing values of the homes for either functional or economic impact and many cases they were not they were not uh noted. We had no
documentation about why and when was it put in there we don't know what was it put in there for. Who decided to put it in there? We can't know. So what what the team did was went back through all of them basically all most of them
>> um and basically said you know this one is for this reason this one we don't know and reach out to the homeowners and say property owners because it wasn't just residential and say you know what is this one for and if they would help us understand it then great if they
didn't help us understand it then we can't give you that adjustment anymore so >> yeah we notify them but I will say On some of the inspections, it it actually was great that we went out and inspected it because in some instances the property
record card either had an error or it wasn't accurate and there were other things that we picked up on and that uh factor didn't really impact them because we did the inspection. So, it's always
good to do inspections because our goal is to verify that that data on that record card is correct. And that's the whole purpose of the cyclical inspections is to verify that. >> So, it appears that you are requesting a
budget increase of about 6%ish. >> Yeah, almost there. >> Oh, there it is. >> Budget increase 6.98%. Yeah, that doesn't >> that doesn't include the salaries. So
that that's on the first page. Um this is just >> I was looking at the sum total. We go from 2 298 to 314. >> Yeah, I did a breakdown of the services and supplies separate so that you can kind of see that the differences in that. The salies we took out the colar
and it's got the the request for 2027. So I just want to give you an update. Uh I will mention >> we ran out of stamps this year, right? >> We we did we >> okay >> we are not putting postage out of our
budget. It's actually going to it's one account now. So I did give Jen an estimate because we use quite a bit of postage. >> Yes. >> Uh we have postcards that we send out. We try to save money by sending out postcards instead of letters because it's a a savings there. But we mail out
our forms of lists. We mail out our >> forms of list. Are you familiar with that one? Have you hit that one yet? >> No. >> Forms of list. Okay. >> Just all the businesses. >> Every business has to give us an idea of what kind of product. Not product. What kind of uh uh
>> inventory they have, >> but it's not inventory for sale. It's it's do you have a computer? Do you have a desk? Do you have a whatever? >> It's personal property. >> It's it's it's called personal property. And I had to try to explain this to somebody. I need to talk to you about somebody actually. Um I had to talk to
somebody, explain this to somebody, a business owner. He said, "If it's it's my business, why do I have to get personal property?" And I said, "It's called personal property, but it's not really personal property. It's business property for you." >> It's business property. >> It should be called business property, but it's always been called personal property.
>> Somebody somewhere made a my opinion a little boo boo. But anyway, um, so the forms of list is basically a listing of your of your business property. >> Is that fair? >> That's fair. And they have >> Tell me when I misexplain things. Okay.
>> Yes. That's a great job to explain. >> And they do have a $2,500 exception on that. >> So if you just have a small home office, it's not going to >> Yeah. You won't get >> You're not going to blow by that. >> $2,500.
You know, back in the day that would not have been my computer, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Exactly. But today, >> mine was a lot. >> Yep. >> Yep. So, so the overall including salaries that
you don't have a number here, but it looks like it's about five a little over 5%. >> Per year. Yeah, 5%. So, um, our our biggest increase is >> You do know there's a prop two and a half.
>> Yeah, it's prop two and a half. >> Just saying. >> Yeah. >> Well, our mileage actually has gone up because we have more inspections now due to some of these projects that we have. >> If you're going to have a data collector, you need that data collector
to be able be able to go out and collect data. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, >> shocking. So that was that number last year was estimated at 900 and and the problem is is we've had you know a lot of extra inspections and then if we bring the cyclicals in which we plan to
do we're actually we inspected the condos. Um so we're trying to do that. We have one more year with vision and then we want to bring our six in house. >> Right. >> That's the goal. We have we had a multi-year deal with vision to do some of the uh appraisals
which I think bringing you the house makes a lot more sense. >> Yeah. >> Um and then the dues and and membership uh we have um dues to the uh Massachusetts Assessors Association uh the which is the international
assessors and they offer classes continuing education. I need to go to the classes for my MA certification. Um, and I find it Denise to do some of them as well. Um, so that we we find
them very helpful. Uh, we get a lot of information from the classes which help us in our our daily work. >> Rubbing shoulders with your colleagues is a way to impart a hell of a lot of information. >> Yeah. So we have a >> you have a vision subscription down here
but I don't see any other subscriptions. Don't we have other subscriptions? >> Um I have um MLS which I have incorporated in office supplies. >> Okay. >> I don't have that under um dues. I have that under actually I'll
have to check that. We might have that under dues. Um so that's four quarters >> uh a year. Um it's $105 for the MLS and we use that to >> review sales and >> confirm Y
>> confirm data. >> Uh the mapping I did want to mention that I did find out from data scout there is an option where we can take that out in the field and we can update it instantaneous. >> So there so and that was what we talked
about before but I'm having a little squeamish about that. I don't want to be able to update it immediately. I want to put it into a buffer someplace so we can check it before we push the button to send it into the live data. Do you understand why? >> When you're out in the field. >> Yeah. Cuz I don't want somebody out in the field pushing a button and going,
"Oh, shoot." >> Well, I have to say I'm kind of oldfashioned. I use pencil and paper. I >> but I I would really like to be able to update things automatically or in in on the computer, >> but I want to put it into a buffer someplace so that we can then go back
and decide if we actually want to let the data change that way. >> Yeah, >> I'm a little concerned about changing live data from a tablet out in the field. >> Yeah, I agree with you. And that may be a great tool where we have questions. So, right now we bring the record card out with us,
>> but if we needed to reference the map, >> we could cuz that's going to be something when we do the neighborhoods. >> The more data you have when you're out there, the better. >> Yeah. >> The more data you can sort of modify, the better. But, as I said, I really
want it to be buffered. I don't want to have I don't want to have direct access to the live database. >> No, that's something. >> So, we would need to think about to talk about that with whomever we wanted to. >> Yeah. using >> I would like to uh schedule a presentation when it's convenient if you
wanted to see presentation of um this it's called data scout and it's compatible with vision so it would take it's cost sales so for us it's a great tool because we can see that data on
>> on the map when we go out will help us in our neighborhood analysis >> it's it's a front end to the GIS that everybody uses. >> Probably the most important part of it is it will provide a property record
card. Instead of having it generate a PDF once a year, it'll update instantaneous. So, >> right, >> I think that will be good because right now we've got a different value. We've we've got the the assessed value for
>> and we've got the PDF version for vision. If you print off your vision card today, today for 26, I mean for now, and you print it off seven or eight, nine months from now, it's going to be the same even if you've made some
changes. >> Mhm. >> So, it's not current. It doesn't. So, this would give us the capability of of creating a current, >> right? I do have to generate the um extract which will generate the P, but we're
adding some more posels. So, I don't want to do that because it'll be a whole year before they're updated. So, I'm going to try to get that done in the next week. >> Oh. Oh. >> We will have that uh updated PDF. >> So, I lied. If you if you print off your
vision card today, it'll be different about 3 weeks from now. >> Yeah. and then it'll stay the same for almost a year. [Music] So yeah, I I forgot the idea. So that's the Thank you.
>> If you didn't mention that just so weuse people. >> No, no. So I don't know if any other department heads are looking at a 5 to 6% increase, but probably all of them are. problem is a lot of the vendor costs are
going up as well. >> Well, and those are >> not fixed, but they are something you can't change. >> Yeah, >> you have no way to save on it. Oh, that's not it. Okay. >> Okay,
cool. Thank you for the budget. And we'll probably have another discussion when Sarah's here, but >> yeah. >> Um maybe a little more depth or not. I don't. We'll see. >> Sorry I got off topic, but I I figured I would mention that. That was something
that I just kind of put together. >> Well, and lads factors that that you we've already sort of talked about that, right? >> Yeah. Um >> I don't know if you if there's something more you want to cover. >> I can give you a little more detail. So, we found 358 landing condition factors and and what
that means is if you look at the record on where it has a person's site area, they may get a factor and some of them they'll have like a note, one of them we had a WF, whatever that means, and then
you get 10%. Some people get 20. The DO doesn't want us to have all of these adjustments. They're not warranted and some of them don't even have notes. So, of those 358, 289 are residential and 69 are
commercial. So, we have to go through all these, verify them, see if they're warranted, send out a letter to the the homeowner. Uh the business ones are >> that actually means that the I'm sorry
that the commercial and industrial is a higher percentage of those because 91% of our parcels are are residences. >> Mhm. and way more than well way less
than 91% there are the those um that's interesting. >> Yeah. >> So there seems to be a propensity in the commercial and industrial to use those. >> Yeah. >> Go ahead. I'm sorry. I just >> No. No. No. So So what we've been trying to do with we found these like last year
we had the functional and economic obsolescence. Sometimes with the economic it could be like if you're next to either train something on the exterior that would affect have an effect on property
an influence a negative influence. >> Um if it was functional could be something inside the house whether it you know some people can be a bedroom you may have to enter into you may have two bedrooms instead of having a separate entrance may have to enter one
into another. That's just kind of an example. or if there's an issue with like one person they had no plumbing you know there was an issue like that so >> so this um these are related to the land
these factors that we found >> so we have tried >> some cases there's slope and that's realistic you know but whatever sorry >> but no it's fine a lot a lot of good points the biggest thing that we want is
to be consistent That's we need to be consistent with all of these. So last year when we started identifying some of these factors, we started some of it like one property was from the other railroad tracks. So they had an influence. So as we go through these,
we're going to have a list of things that whether we do 10% for you know whatever slope or because we want to be consistent. So this is another batch of 358 that have been on these properties. I
can't tell. It might have been prior to the conversion of the data when they converted from the old camera to vision and some of these discounts that people are getting and it you know >> we don't know why >> we don't know and some of them don't
have comments so we have to research them. So, our plan uh again is to send out a letter. Uh we're at this point identifying them. We're actually going to sort them also by site index also
because the ones are 1 181B. Our site indexes are on the water. So, we're going to try to do all this if we can group it and try to identify the ones that we can just take care of first and more complex ones that are related
to our neighborhood review. >> We may want to incorporate some of these in that as well, but it will be a project um that we we've got to do inspections for. So we will again notify people by the mail telling them that they have
this discount requesting an inspection and again we'll do the same thing we did with the functional economic >> and if we can't do the inspection if you won't allow us to come do the inspection we're just going to remove the adjustment >> which means your value will go up
>> because we don't know any better. Yeah. uh and once we as we continue with this I'll be discussing it in our meetings and you know giving you an update on what what our findings are. So, >> so that's just kind of a a summary, but
again, the biggest thing is just to be consistent and again the do we if we're going to have these kind of adjustments, they have to be warranted and I don't know who put them on or how long ago and it's it's difficult for us because we
try to go by notes and we're looking at the maps. So, it's going to be >> You want to add another one >> with that? >> People's houses that have driveways that exceed the limited elevation
that the town has set and they've been there for very long time. I have several neighbors, one of which they had a medical emergency and no medical equipment could be brought up to the
house in the winter time. There was just no way to get up that driveway, >> period. Another one, and it's a big, wealthy, beautiful house, but it's like a quarter mile long
driveway up the hill. And an oil delivery truck came and slid off and rolled over and dumped the oil. >> Yep. >> It was really disgustingly ugly. And
these people have to pay huge sums to keep the driveways going. And why the town never let them build, >> I do not understand. So there's there's a move of foot to put
less restrictions on your property, but in some cases like that, you really have to have restrictions on the property so that building doesn't occur. If it occurs, it has enough switchbacks so it's not that steep and >> right. But what do we do with the homes
that already exist and fortunate people, the elderly people who are living there? >> Those are the ones where we would give a slope. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. give you a slope factor. So, the state had told us, you know, you need to get rid of some of those factors. No, no, we're not going to get rid of factors, but we're going to certainly tighten up the ship
>> um and and use the factors as they're supposed to be used, not willy-nilly. >> Yeah. >> So, I've been pushing back with the Becky and and some of the other folks from the state like, you know, we're going to use them. And Reena says sometimes, well, we're not supposed to
use factors. like, "Oh, yeah, but we're going to >> Sometimes you sometimes you need to I mean, not every property is the same. There are certain if you're right if your property is right beside the railroad tracks and you're here in trains."
>> Well, it was constant. Yes, >> that's a negative. >> It was there when you bought it, it's not like you're surprised, but you shouldn't have to pay through the nose for taxes for something that's >> And the same is true of the driveways that super steep. You know, I'm my neighbor. Literally my neighbor. I I
never knew they were ever going to build anything because literally that lot was next to me. And it looked like you needed a a a chairlift to get up there. It was so steep. And I thought, "Nobody's ever going to buy that to build anything on it." And I was
thinking about buying it. It was on offer for $15,000 at the time. >> Yes. Well, somebody bought it for $15,000, planned on how to build a house on it, got approved by the town, and then sold
that to a builder for $25,000 and grabbed a quick tent. >> Yep. >> And then now they had that medical issue in the middle of winter, which was rather ugly. >> Yeah.
>> Anyway. Anyway, >> sorry. So, Oh, no. I mean, honestly, we we do hear lots of those stories because, you know, well, my property has this. Well, you're right. That is a that's a problem. That's going to be a problem. So, we ought to note
it, make a factor, put a factor on it, and move on. >> We can't fix it for you. can't fix it. >> But, you know, we can certainly take it into account and take as we value the property because >> somebody puts up a million dollar house on top of a hill they can't get to. It's
like, what do you what do you think of that? It's still a million dollar house. >> Sorry. >> That becomes an abandoned mansion. >> So, anyway, good. Thank you. Uh, postpone topics the policies binder. We at some point we'll bring that in again
for us. >> I'll bring it in again. >> Uh and we're adding things to it as we go. >> Chapter land. >> So, uh just this last year, I guess a policies binder was created. >> Mhm.
>> Um it's it's all hard copy. It's about that thick. Um of all of our policies on various subjects. We use that as the basis a a city that is not
got any farmland. So there's not a mention of chapter land. Not a mention. So we had to write our own chapter uh chapter and then we went through and modified uh the team went through and modified some of the other stuff so that it fit our community
better. Um so it's it's I think it's good to have that stuff documented. If you don't have a policy, you don't, you know, it's tough to make a decision on stuff. >> We we also uh and I know we mentioned this in the last meeting, we also have all of our procedures in our one drive
so that we have instructions on how to >> Yeah, you were going to tell us how to get to that. >> Well, you'd have to come in the office. It's it's you'd have to get on a one drive to do that. So that's something that I mean it's like instructions on how to put in a deed do
>> Oh >> into you know office type things that we we have as well. So we've kind of automated that. >> Oh cuz I thought we you were going to give us access to it on one drive somehow. I don't know how you do that. >> I I don't know how how
>> well we probably should have access to one drive because we have uh.gov emails. I just don't know. I'd have to check with Mason. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. When you get a chance. >> But I mean, you can come into our office
and if you have any questions. It's just >> some of us work and then there's the rest of us. >> But some of us are on >> shovel driveway while you is that. >> Okay. Cool. Thank you. Uh mapping
software. We talked about the map software and criteria is on there twice. >> Yeah, I kept I put that in. I know it's a future thing. So, I'm going to revisit that >> now. I gave it to you. So, >> I'm taking it off this list. >> No, we're uh Well, I'll keep it as a f Well, we should probably add it to the
next with Sarah. Um I didn't put in a January meeting because I think at this point >> we had Well, we had difficulty finding a time when we could all meet. >> Yeah. And I didn't put it because I think it's gonna until we get our abatements, >> right?
>> Which will be the end of the month. I don't really know. It doesn't need to meet. >> Can you do us a favor? >> Tell me if this is too much cuz it might be. >> Yep. >> But every Monday morning, could you just send us a to a total of how many requests we have?
>> Sure. Yep. >> I would be happy to do >> from the prior week. >> Yeah. >> Or in total. >> Yep. >> Either way. >> Yep. The deadline is >> you got this many this week. So yeah, February 1st. >> February 2nd is the deadline for abatement. >> Okay. Yes. Because of
>> because of the weekend. >> Weekend. Yeah. >> So uh every Monday. Yeah. I would be happy to do that. >> That way we know what's going on. And if we start to see an inordinate amount, it's like that would be concerning. >> Yeah. >> So we could go back to Jen and say, you
know what, number it's got to be bigger. >> Yeah. >> I haven't seen it. I know we're only seven days into the month, but >> and we three work days. You've got three. >> We've had three. >> So that's that says that uh you should get 20. This is going to be 20 work days, right? >> Maybe. I mean, someone came in yesterday
and asked for an application. >> But I mean, we're not seeing a lot of >> we we didn't have the whole town blow up and the phone's going crazy and >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, and I think that's because we we did
a lot of the analysis that we could do. >> Yep. >> So, >> yep. Cool. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Uh, anything else we Oh, so next meeting is scheduled for February 4th. >> Is that okay? >> As far as I know. >> Okay. >> February 4th. >> February 4th, I believe.
>> I'm I may be traveling the end of February or into March, but >> Okay. >> I just put those dates in. Fine. >> If we need to change them, that's fine. >> February 4th is fine with me. >> And if we have March for Oh, shoot.
Okay. Go ahead. If we have uh March 4th, we probably ought to have March 25th or >> Okay. >> something. March March something. I don't know. March. >> Okay. >> Even though I might not be there. >> Uh oh, there it is.
Before we get too far off, I got a message from Melissa that the annual town report for fiscal year 2025 because you're reporting on the past >> y >> is due in I it's due on
>> February 19th. So, I was going to suggest that I will try to draft something up for the next meeting of February 4th. We can re review it then and make any adjustments that you guys want to make or I'll look at and go, I said that.
Um, and it's basically a recap of 2025, fiscal 2025, which we had a lot going on then. >> We did. >> Um, but it wasn't a million abatements, so we don't have to talk about that anymore.
And I think I I can send you what I had submitted for last year also if you want >> for the temp for the >> for the annual report >> for 24 >> for 24. >> Yeah, >> cuz we I think we worked on >> we worked on Yep. >> So I can >> I actually I probably have a copy of it but send me whatever what finally was
finally submitted. >> So that'll be good. That'll be helpful. >> Um [Music] that was it. I have a BA meeting set for the 25th of February. >> Yes.
>> Oh, yep. >> Okay. >> The the 4th of the 25th and we're the fourth of March right now >> and the fourth uh don't have the 4th of March on here. So, >> right. And very tentatively March either the
25th or the 18th. I don't know. >> And we can kind of see how it goes. I mean, we don't have that many uh abandonments, >> right? >> We'll see. >> Are you thinking about when you're going to
schedule the presentation of the senior center yet? >> I probably could do that. We did it in uh been doing in the summertime. Well, we did last year we did one in in late January, early February, and then we did one on just the senior means tested
>> exemption in in uh July, late late July, early August. >> Yeah. >> Um but we probably want to >> maybe the spring >> do another one in the spring. And I don't know if we need to do anything about the abatements because I don't think anybody's all up in arms about
abatements. >> Yeah. uh as far as the senior means stuff that that will still be due the first week in September. >> Yes. >> So we should give people people plenty of time people plenty of time to uh prepare get themsel get their head around what what's needed and ask
whatever questions they need to ask and then get their applications in. I'm hoping we are wrong that we actually hit more than we thought. >> Yeah. >> But I don't think we will. I really think we're going to be >> 20 25. >> Yeah. >> 18. I agree.
>> Cool. Anything else we need to cover? >> That's it. >> We do have some executive session stuff to cover. >> We do. >> Okay. Um >> I didn't see anybody in the public ever on the Zoom thing, so I'll assume
there's still no public. Um any further board conversation? Nothing. Then I will entertain a motion to adjurnn. Let me read the whole darn thing.
I move that we adjourn the open meeting and enter executive session not to not to return to open session after exiting the executive session. The motion to exe to enter executive session is under purpose 7 to comply with or act under any authority of any general or special
law or federal grant in aid requirements. This executive session the application is to review applications for abatements or exemptions under this chapter that shall accept proceedings before the county commissioners, the appallet tax board or the court of the
commonwealth be open only to the inspection of the assessors. the commissioner, deputies, clerks, and assistants of either the assessors or the commissioner, and such other officials as designated private auditors of the Commonwealth under chapter 59,
section 60 of Mass General Law. Sorry, that was a motion. >> Second. >> All in favor? I. >> We can wrap it up. I'm going to stop recording. Thank you.