I'm trying. Joe, it's not allowing me to record. Recording in progress. Good morning. I would like to announce uh again the cemetery commission meeting uh which is Thursday, April 25th,
2025 at 9:00 in the morning at Lunberg Town Hall. If we could all rise for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Amen. Thank you. [Music] Okay. Welcome everyone to the meeting uh the cemetery commission meeting. again
at Lunberg Town Hall. I need to read a few things. In accordance with the requirement of the open meeting law, please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and broadcasted live over the Lunberg public access channel on Facebook live on the public access
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town of Ludenberg utilizes Zoom platform as hosts for the hybrid and remote meetings, but the Zoom platform utilizes AI technology known as AI companion to create audio transcriptions of the meeting to aid um
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meeting. The agenda lists all the topics which will be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair. Votes may be taken as a result of these discussions. Not all items listed may in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be
brought up for discussion permitted by the open meeting law. Public participation is encouraged and public comments may be welcomed during the committee member discussions the discretion by the chair. Please note during public comment that you have three minutes to give your
public comment. Thank you. Okay. So the first on the agenda, let's go through the um approve minutes for uh or approve the minutes from March 27th, 2025 meeting. Has everybody read that? I have.
Okay. I'd like to make a motion to um to accept the meeting for March 27th, 2025. All in favor? Check. Check. Sorry. Oh, sorry. Okay. Sorry,
Dave. Seconded. All in favor? I I The motion has passed. All right. The next on the agenda, we're going to change it a little bit. Let's have Ezekiel uh which is our town of
Lunenburgg director of finance. and he's going to give a presentation and kind of of a review that we've done before, but there seems to be some confusion on it. So, I want to make sure that the public understands, you know, what the cemetery
what are what we have as far as rules and regulations and who better, but to bring in the finance director to to do that. Thank you, Ezekiel, for joining us today. Oh, you're welcome. So the presentation I have here is no different
than the presentation I gave about a year ago to the commission. Um they're all master laws, rules and regulations. So there really are no updates unless it's brought up by the by the commonwealth.
So um I'm going to start with the first I'm going I'm going to go through the various funds state master law and how it goes by um the specific procedure within town on either spending or allocation things like that. So first
one I will start with is the sale of lots fund. We have identified that as fund 8115. That's our internal fund number for the sale of lots per m per per master journal law chapter 114 se
section 25. The proceeds of sale of lots or rights of burial is such cemetery shall be paid into the town of treasury and be appropriated to reimburse the town for cost of land its care improvement and embellishment or enlargement of the cemetery. Um, also to
ensure continuous day-to-day operations and streamline procedures for the community, the sale of loss fund shall be handled by the cemetery superintendent. The cemetery superintendent shall adhere to the town of Ludenberg's turnover policy regarding protocol and report any receipts to the
cemetery commission along with other pertinent information as required. Um any refunds or expenses directly out of this fund um will need a majority vote from the cemetery commission. All refund
requests provided to the town accountant must be accompanied by documentation of set commission approval. Um also it may the approval may also be um documentation of minutes as well. Can I stop for one? I just want to see
is there any questions on this one because we're going to go through it just real quick. Is there any questions that you have on this? Anybody, Bill? No, you. Yeah, I think I think once we cover um the capital article so that we cover how we transfer money. Absolutely.
Questions. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Oh, it's okay. And the next one is a capital article fund um identified as in our internal fund number 3006 uh through a warrant article at
Lunberg's annual time meeting a transfer from the sales account is requested. The funds are to be used for the care improvement embellishment for town cemeteries. Um once the vote once voted and established town accountants shall transfer the balances as specified by the warrant article or report back to
the ce cemetery commission that the transfer has been completed and the funds are available for for use. So there's a little confusion between the sellers loss fund and the capital article here. So the sellers loss fund is more day-to-day care and it's um per
per the purview of the cemetery commission. So, if there are expenses day-to-day that um are outside of the normal scope, um I'll let the commission identify what that is. That's not up to me to identify. However, the capital article is more for large improvements.
Um if you're putting in, for example, a crematorium, something like that, some some kind of capital item that's um particularly large number in nature, that's what this is for. It's more of a transparent to the town that this is what we're doing. We're putting this on the town of meeting warrant and um the
um community can vote on either to approve or disapprove the transfer. So for the sale of lots funds then if we wanted to do something small we could decide for whatever amount of money. We don't
have a set limit but we could say yeah we want to do this project. um it's just within the business of the board and concurrence with the DPW superintendent and then we can authorize money out of that sale of lots balance.
Absolutely. Outside a town meeting. Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh and then if we want to do something big, we feel town meeting should have exposure to it and concurrence. We go to town meeting um to transfer that money. Correct.
Which has been done in the past. Um, and then there's a third though. If if we want to do a capital project that's significant like the back lot, uh, which we we don't feel we should pull out of um the dayto-day sale of
lots or it's we we can get a article on that article for capital uh expenditures. we can get a placeholder to get approved like we're doing with
the back lot expansion. Correct. So, you can um put in a request through the capital committee to expend those funds either, you know, through the town manager um outside of the normal sale of lots transfer. Okay. And so that if it's
approved at town meeting, ours is 50K, that will not show up then in um the sale of lots or the capital. Correct. Correct. So that'll be something the town manager and yourself and the
correct DPW director manage. Correct. Okay. So because there are questions why why aren't we moving money around to do uh various projects? Mhm. And I think you've clarified it that for significant
projects, we're going to the town to fund it. Uh for smaller projects, we can give exposure to the town and use the money from from the sale of lots and for even smaller items, we can just spend
the money. Correct. Okay. At what amount is the capital funds used? Is it 25,000? Is it 30? Where does this stop at perpetual funds and pick up at capital? Um well the
capital article um when you um when the commission puts in the request to transfer from the sale of floss funds it should be identified what the funds are going to be used for at that point in time. So if you have a particular project let's say typically it's been
10,000. So let's say you have a particular project in mind, you should identify that project at that time of transfer. Okay. So that way um those funds are solely used for that project and it's transparent that way. So it's project it's project based not amount
based. Correct. Okay. But I think I want to add to that is that what you and I have talked about in the past, Ezekiel, is again that, you know, best business practices. You want to only take what would we say 20 to 25,000 out of that if we're going to do a larger project. We
don't want to keep depleting that. That's the one thing that this commission has done. Um it started um after Lance May unfortunately passed away and then Bill Tyler took over and
myself is that we stated that we wanted to make sure that we were sovereign and that's what we've done. Um, and I think everybody needs to really give themselves a pat on the back, including yourself, Ezekiel, again, you know, helping us through that process and making sure that, you know, we had the
money. Um, that, uh, the town manager could also come and say, "Hey, look, you know what? I'm I need to move something. I'd like you guys to help out if that's possible, if that's the way it goes, or Bill, there's something that you need." Vice versa. I think we've done well by doing that. In fact, I want to stop for
a second and say welcome um town manager Jennifer uh Warren who is here. She came in uh to listen to our meeting and just be part of that. So if there's any questions or anything, Jennifer, please feel free. Thank you.
So we can as time goes we can kind of um look at what we bring in for how many lots sold a year and then we know okay we're bringing in say 30k or whatever and then that's probably
uh a baseline to spending. Um that's a good approach. Yes. Yeah. Okay. But again you don't want to do that every year. Exactly. You want to manage your balance too. you don't want to deplete the funds like Nancy had
mentioned and unfortunately there was a time that that happened so we just never want to get there or go back there I should say okay okay next is the cemetery perpetual care
trust fund uh per master general law chapter 114 is for the overall maintenance and development necessit ne necessitated by the natural growth In ordinary wear, a port portion of the proceeds from the sale of each grave or burial niche is uh
designed for the perpetual care trust fund according to the fee schedule adopted by the cemetery commission during the budget process. Uh the use of cemeter trust fund is under the purview of the cemetery commission only. Um so the perpetual care trust fund is broken
out into two portions. Um the principal which um internal is our fund number 801 is non-expendable. This is um the principal set aside for investment only. The second portion is the interest. Our
internal fund number 8,000 is expendable is the earned interest thereof is used to provide perpetual care. Only the interest earnings from the funds can be utilized to support the cost associated with the cemetery operations. Interest earners may also fund capital
improvements associated with the cemetery. So you're able to use the interest for capital projects as well. The perpetual care I have um what you made up
from balances of 33125. So the perpetual care is separate from the sale of lots. Correct. Okay. And currently there's 17,000 from 2024. Mhm. Interest
revenue is 2,800. So we would use the 2800 the interest. Um well you could use the prior year interest also. So you can use there's a total of 20,78. So that's the entire interest you're able to use. Yes. Okay. So you can pull
from that. You can pull from that too. Yes. And we would just let you know which where we'd want to pull from. Yes. And I also need, you know, verification of minutes and possibly, you know, something signed by either the board or the chair verifying the minutes so we
can do so. Okay. And we'll guide you'll guide us too if you know like I said that you know we pull from the right place as far as saying 20,000 here we'll take from that versus you know asking for more money when we don't need to when we have that availability if that's
what needs to be done. Okay, perfect. Any other Yeah, I guess that would be it, you know. Um cuz so it seems like the description overlaps a little. If you're repairing a a rock wall, is that capital? Uh or is that
perpetual? I think if you're buying uh flowers in the spring for the planters, that's probably perpetual. Um I would think that the rock wall would be capital. Yeah. Yeah. It's a major. Yeah, it's a project, right?
Right. Um and then did um is what is the split when they actually deposit the um so it's a $800 per plot fee, right? So what what what is the split of um I don't have the schedule of how to split.
I believe it may be 500 to sale of cemetery lots and 300 to the perpetual care, but I'm not 100% positive on that. Um, a I think it's half and half. Is it half and half? Half and half. Isn't that what you remember? Isn't off the top,
mate. I can't remember, but I'll look it up. Get it to you. Okay. Yeah, Bill can get it for us, but I think I I see it on the other end when it's all done. I don't see the the split before the final number. Yes. Okay. Great. Yeah, but the town gets some of that. Correct. That
that's what we're talking about is half and half. I mean I was going to say for just for this meeting that I believe it it's half and half that the town gets 400 and then the sale of lots gets 400. Okay. But Bill will take that as a action item
to come back to us on. Okay. Uh the next one is cemetery gift fund uh identified as internal fund number 1548. Uh purm master general law chapter 114 section 25. A town in which cemetery
commissioners are chosen may receive gifts or requests for maintaining cemeteries or cemetery lots uh which shall be paid into the town treasury and the account there accounts thereof shall be kept separate from the other monies
and accounts said town. The town of Lunenburgg may receive gifts or maintenance of cemeteries cemetery lots. These gifts must be turned over uh to the treasurer and is maintained as a separate fund. Uh again, no expenses shall occur without the vote from the
commission. And um yes, and I have a blurb in there. If there is a refund request for whatever reason, um it must also go to the cemetery commission for approval. So I have one question on this. So under
the cemetery gift fund, um we have I think 200 and something dollars in there right now. Um, do you put like if somebody wants to give a donation or a gift to the summit commission, does that go all underneath that fund or do you have to do each one separate? Like
there's a family that gives for um like what we had is signage in there and the family gave x amount of dollars. Does each family have to call it a different fund or everything like let's say the Clark family, the Yasco family,
and the Doran family decides to give X amount of dollars? Do can they all go underneath the same funds and just be calculated that this was, you know, $500 for this, $500 to that, so on and so forth? Um, they would all go into this gift fund unless there's a specific
trust. Like, uh, we do have one trust account, right? um specific to a family and the funds are only to be spent to that particular um plot but other than that it would go into the gift account.
Now, with that trust fund that we have, um, my question to you is if the cemetery commission, if there was someone, a family member that had passed away, but there was another friend or something that wanted to put in toward that, they can come to you and say, "I
would like this just to go for this particular trust." Is that correct? Yes. Okay. Does that all sense? Right. Right. So, what we had before that didn't get approved could
have gone into the trust fund. What didn't get approved? The couple then wanted to give us money for the from the town that should have been able to go
into the what I I guess I'm now I'm I'm not sure what you're talk what family was going to are we talking about the cleaning of the stone the trust. the trust.
No, I think you're talking about the uh building of the wall of the wall. You're talking. It was a family that wanted to give us some money that should have been able to go into the trust fund or or the gift fund or the gift fund. The gift
fund, right? Well, again, that would have to have been Jennifer, can I bring you into this this conversation? You can. And I don't know how much I'm going to be able to respond off the cuff, but okay. So, not to put you again, I'm not trying to put you on
the spot here. So, the situation went like this, and maybe you can help us understand this. So, the situation, there was a family that wanted to come forward with x amount of dollars for one particular item, which would have been the wall for the for the cemetery. We didn't have all the money
to complete that wall, meaning it was x amount of dollars. The family felt again that they were going to wait until again however the rules and regulations are as you as far as the uh town manager and it was my understanding that's why it's
been waited on at this point in time and if that family still wants to go forward or not. So all I'm asking you is is that something that you need to be brought into when it's something if somebody wants to give a gift that way regarding that. So I typically the town manager
does not need to be brought in to uh the acceptance of a gift or a donation of the gift. The treasurer collector however certainly does need to be brought in. Okay. The if the gift is a restricted gift in some sort of way which it sounds like this is a restricted gift. The intent of the donor
needs to be clearly identified and the town through the treasurer collector uh needs to make sure that we are following that intent. Okay. And the next step is again, it's my understanding that you stand before the select board to have it approved. Is that it? It depends on
we're actually just in the process of adopting a gift policy through the select board. Okay. And it speaks uh it speaks to uh cemetery commission in that draft policy that there are some gifts that would not need to be accepted depending on the type of account they're
going into because they're handled statutoily elsewhere. Um there are some gifts to that would only be accepted by the cemetery commission that the select board uh does not have jurisdiction over. But if it doesn't fall under that statutory provision of that gift type,
then yes, the select board would formally accept the gift. Otherwise, if it's under that specific statute, then it would be this body that would be formally accepting those gifts. Okay. Thank you for that clarification. Sorry to put you on the spot. Thank you.
Any other questions on that? Uh, no. I think that's good. Nope. Bill. No. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you again. This is always very helpful and we appreciate all your hard work, Ezekiel. Okay. Um, DPW director, would you like
to uh give us your progress reports and what's going on? Sure. So, since the last meeting, we've had one full burial, five cremation burials. Uh, the superintendent has repaired a bunch of foot
markers. He found some were in the wrong spot, some were kind of bent, so he made those repairs. Uh, he's made a bunch of updates in Ray Maker. You know, occasionally he'll find something missing or it'll say the the body's
buried here, but it's actually over here. So, he's made those changes. Can I stop you just for one quick second as you go through it? So, the one question I have um is regarding when you put the foot marker in, is that done by the DPW
or is that done by um like Lemonster Monument or whoever? I believe it's typically the monument company. Okay. So the the ones that he's he's done, you know, he he found they were in the wrong spot or one was kind
of bent. Yep. So he he's just made repairs to those. So he made repairs. So it's not That's why I was trying to ask because I wasn't sure. Is there a fee? So you don't get a fee for that for the DPW doing that. Correct. Correct. Okay.
So, it does technically come from the first part, which is the monument place, right? All right. Sorry to interrupt on that. That's okay. We're continuing with the spring cleanup. Um, we're in the process of trying to
hire uh seasonal laborers. So, I think the last meeting I reported that two of the guys that were here last year were coming back, but it turns out they can only be here very short period because they're in college. So, we're looking at other candidates. So, we we have one
lined up and hopefully we can hire him soon and we're still looking for one more. Okay. Do you think you'll have them on board before Memorial Day or that's your goal? Well, it'll be tight, but that's the goal. Okay.
Uh we've also reached out to the Department of Corrections and they've tenatively told us, yeah, they can come out and help. Uh they haven't given us dates yet. And we've reached out to Lake View Landscaping to help us with mowing
if if needed. So, the week before Memorial Day, if we need them, they'll be there for us. um the South Cemetery flagpole pad project. We've reached out to our the
contractor there. We're just waiting for a date. When he says he's ready to go and uh the same with the flagpole lights, we've reached out to that contractor and soon as he gives us a date, he he'll get in there. Okay. The date hopefully is going to be before
Yes. Yes. May 31st. Yeah. Yep. Oh, what was the second item? The flag pole lighting. Okay. Flag pole lighting. Yeah. Uh, what else? The Fist Street, that wall project. I reached out to Richard
McGrath to to see where he's at and he didn't get back to me yet. Okay. You're going to keep on that. Yeah, definitely. Because I think like I said when when um the interim town manager stopped that project um for the right
reasons um I think all we were doing is just waiting to find out how much it was going to be for the rocks to build. Yeah. So I'll try to get a hold of them again. Okay. Uh that's about it. And then I know at
the last meeting we talked about file cabinets. So, um, I looked around, get sent some information to Dave. We think two filed cabinets would be sufficient to for all the the files that we have there.
Okay. I'm going to let Dave start on what he's found and then I'm going to go back to that. We can talk about that in a second. Okay. because I had a meeting yesterday uh with Jennifer to go over some items and I just wanted to, you know, make sure that we're all on the
same page of all of this. You each have a copy of what uh Bill sent me, which is a number of different file cabinets that are fire resistant and waterproof.
uh ranging uh I think the most expensive is $2,879 and I think the least expensive was around $1,744. However, uh the
town also has a contract with WBM Mason. So, you each have the um it's called a sales order or quotation from WBM Mason, which they provided two different file cabinets,
one black, one tan. Um both have the same rating, 1 hour in case of fire. Uh there's one hour fire resistant and they're both um water resistant, water
repellent. Um for some reason the black one is $1,000 more than the tan one. Um the weight is a little bit less on the tan one, which we got to make sure. And I'm
sure this the DPW is just all cement. So, but I was told to make sure that it's put on a cement foundation because the one of them is 58 lb and the other is 445 lb.
Okay. I don't think it makes a difference as far as the color goes in unless there's some thing with the DPW that they want a particular color. So, I guess I would recommend going with the the tan one if we decide to okay to vote
on it. Okay. So, with that being said, I I do have some questions and and and if there's anybody else that has any questions and thank you Dave and thank you um Bill for for taking care of this and looking into this for us. Um, my
biggest question is is what is that? And I'm going to call it a project because it really is going to look like with the boxes. How many boxes do we have? About Oh, four or five. But the other piece is all the
little uh index cards with all the grave information. Yep. Right. So, those need to go into There's Oh, I thought there was something like 10 to 12 boxes. No, they're No, they're underneath the desk. So, there's only about four or five.
Yeah. Okay. Somehow I Okay. So, four or five boxes. So, my question is from day one with the cemetery commission when they we went forward to getting the software ray maker. Um we wanted to make sure that all of
that information was put in to the system. What do you need to go and figure out how much time that's going to be for someone to do that? Number one,
um, does it make sense that we all look at do we go hire someone like a data person to come in to start putting that information into the software? Um because I don't you know and it's again
the committee that decides as far as you know how many or how many we actually need to put all this information in you know will we do better by you know grabbing the DD214s that have been talked about uh
for a while now um that those are in a double lock meaning they're in the in the file cabinet which is then behind the closed door. Um you have a closed door. Is there other closed doors that that
could be sitting in that file cabinet? Well, the the building itself is locked, right? Yeah, but double locking means. I don't I don't know if that's what that's considered or it needs to be in someone's office. That I'm not sure.
Um, just a quick thought on the boxes. Um, I looked through a couple of them just fast and I didn't really see anything that needs to be added to Ray Maker. I think all the pertinent information is already in there. I think it's just a
lot of old files and stuff. I It should be gone through, right, to figure out if it really what that project looks like really needs to go in. But yeah, it's a big project, right? you have to, you know, read the paper, check Ray Maker, is it there? Right? So, all I'm asking is, is that something
that you can do is go and find out what that project's going to look like? Meaning, let's say you come back and say, look, you know, to the cemetery commission, I think it's going to be 60 hours or 100 hours of work, you know, what is that going to entail? how much money again, you know, can we buy get a
student, you know, pay a minimum wage, have them come in and just start the process and then knowing what that project's going to look like if that's what is decided and then go ahead. Yeah, I can give you a time estimate, I believe. Yeah. Okay.
Um because it's my understanding that some of those 1800s 1700 records are there. um you know, does it make sense that you get a um a big file tote, put that stuff in there so at least it's not
going obviously it will burn, but again depending on what the town has, what the town's capability of is keeping these things safe as far as records, you know, does it make sense to put some of that into those buy those boxes, which is no
kind of cost, and then just buy the one um file cabinet for the DD214. 14s. Do you have any idea how many DD214s you have? No idea. Yeah, you'd have to go through the boxes, see what's in there. The quick skim I went through,
I didn't see any. Now, is everything filed by um plot owner then? Like they don't have all DD214s together. That's what I Yeah. No, the the index cards of by plot. The
boxes are just mishmashed. Okay. Yeah. So you don't know why? I don't. Right. So once it goes in the boxes, it's just boxed, right? Well, as far as I know, nothing's been added to them in 10 years. They just been sitting there. Oh, okay. So where
are the current like I guess if somebody comes in and maybe it's the funeral director that takes care of a lot of this and and you're just getting I guess I don't understand the whole process anyway. Right. Well, now everything's scanned and put into Ray Maker. We don't
keep hard copies. Okay. So, you don't keep any records. Okay. Hard copies? No, it's all in Ray Maker. So, when someone passes away and all the paperwork that the superintendent did to put the person in the
plot, what happens to the paperwork? You discard it. You're not filing it after time. Yeah. Yeah. You discard it. So, back that up for one second. So, where are the DG214s? Because we've
tried to we know they're with you, meaning at the DPW. Where are they now? And how how many are we talking, Bill? This is all in the past because what my understanding is from talking to the state level is that um does a funeral
home do you even need the DT214s? I know why you need it is because you need to prove again that you're going to have that um special foot marker so on and so forth that it has to be sent in. Do you DPW do you go on to line and send that
in that way so that you can get that meaning um you have to go in secured site as far as the government so on and so forth. That's what you're doing today. Is that correct? Right. So, we take a paper copy, we scan it, it's actually faxed over to the veterans and
they send us the the marker so we know to put a flag. Okay. Because there are some cemeteries that are doing that go right into the site and they they Yeah, they scan it. But okay. Um, so why do let's rethink about this. Do we really
need to have the DD214s? Because in most cases, like I have my original DD214 for a World War II vet, which was, you know, um, one of my my stepdads. So, again, usually the funeral
home hands it back to you. So, why does does the town need to keep this? That I guess that's my question. A hard copy we don't need, right? Because it's it's scanned in in Ray Maker. So you do have scanning in Rain Maker that it is
sitting out there in Ray Maker, right, for the DD214s, right? It's in there. Are we sure that then I'm not sure how it's in there? Because there was I had one of the rain makers representatives go in and they
are not showing. They're showing if they're there, they're in an image, which means we've got 10,900 or 10,500 images. Correct. Right. So the public facing side, nobody could see that. It's only if you have
the password to get into the back end. That's the only people that can see. And the only people that have that is the DPW and the Cemetery Commission. Correct. Okay. Well, I think just the DPW the the images are by permission, I think, because we can we can go to the
uh town website, go to the cemetery department. We can see everybody in everybody in the country, everybody on the internet has access to our cemetery information. Correct.
um and images that have been selected as visible. Correct. So the data is public and it seems like it is for most cemeteries because you go into like
cemetery search they show you what cemetery are you searching. Right. So different forms don't show on the public facing side. Right. They're still in the program there. Right. Right. only, you know, ask with the password and see
that. Yeah. So, so you're saying like if a veteran uh uh is buried tomorrow with you put the DD214 in. Correct. Okay. But there is a butt there. My only
concern is, like I said, is when you look at the database and you go in, if the image is there, you've got to lock that image that the public can't see it. Is that what's being done? Is that what That's correct. Okay.
Yeah, I think there's Okay. X image categories. So the picture of the gravestone is a category one. The deed is a category X and then these others are in locked compartment. Correct.
Were you saying that everything is sent over, not just the DD214s, but the contracts and everything are sent over to Rain Maker? Because when I just asked you, you're not keeping any files. So, if we get someone that comes back to us
and says, "I'd like a refund because we're not going to be burying our relative there." We have no proof that they even paid for it unless we go into rain
maker. Correct. Is that right? Well, and we'd have the little index card, too, right? Yeah, but that's not a contract. True, right? So, the contract is scanned and it's in Ray Maker. That's the But the public doesn't get to see that. No, he's talking about
anything. Meaning if you if somebody wants to get their lot back, meaning if they want to sell their lot back. Well, there's no contract. There's a deed, right? You right. So, the deed The deed says who was sold to how much and
the date, right? And then that's put into rain maker. That's correct. And that's not necessarily really secure. Um because that's probably publication anyways. I think this is a deeper discussion,
don't you? Or thinking about this again. I think for this commission, right, to dot our eyes, cross our tees. I think I think the way I think methodically it needs to be thought out strategically um on this. That's my
recommendation. Um, I just would like to make sure that rain maker when when something's sent to them and it has to do with a deed and there's money involved. I wouldn't want
the public to be able to see how much, you know, I don't any contract or any deed. I mean, that's private information. So I would want to make sure that rain maker isn't putting that. It's not rain
maker that it's whoever puts it in. It's got to be put in properly correctly and then made sure and I think that's the pieces that I think needs to be looked at. Yeah. And we need to um find
out I don't think deeds are private information. I mean, you can go into any registry of deed in Massachusetts and find out uh who owns the bot, what mortgage company they went through. Um, but I'm that's just my thought, right? So, I
guess we would need uh the official word, but yeah. Um, okay. Jennifer, can I pull you aside again? Sorry. So, we just, like I said, I think the thing that we're struggling and
trying to work through is again, this is going to be a bigger project. Um, which that's not the problem. I think the problem is is really understand the rain maker to understand how those were put in, where they are on the images to make sure that certain things are locked down
so the public cannot see it. Um, but um that everything is secured. I guess that's that's my biggest my biggest thing as far as being on the cemetery commission is to make sure that we've done everything properly to make sure um to the best of our knowledge that we've
done this correctly. Would you agree with that and your thoughts? Well, I think that the question was first you need to determine what information in there is indeed private and which is not. Right. So, uh there was a little bit of discussion that I
heard about what is truly private. Um my my sense is that there's lot not a lot of information that is truly private. A lot of what we do is a matter of public record and it's there are there are exemptions though to the public records. Um, and
so, you know, Bill and his staff make determinations of what should be private and what is not. And as long as there are policies and procedures in place that they are ensuring that those that information is segregated within the program, then then we'd be covered.
Okay. The only piece that I keep bringing up is the fact that with the images, when you have images, you can't you've either got to lock them all down or you've got to let them all open. You can't just lock down certain things is my understanding. Now, if I'm wrong,
then please, you know, and maybe I am, but I I think that's what I found out from Rain Maker. So, when you have all those images, which are out there, when you say images, are you saying like apng or JPEG file versus a PDF? I mean, I don't know if it's possible PDF if they
were. I was going to say I don't I don't know if it's possible just to have a conversion of a conversion project where you convert any of the the PGs or JPEGs to a PDF that happened to be that type
of information. So if it's a image of a DD214, convert that to a PDF and then perhaps I don't know the software enough to know if that's possible, but perhaps you can segregate it by making converting the image document to a PDF.
I think it has to be one at a time because I've talked to them. But again, don't quote me on that. Go ahead. Right. So I'm not sure what the image is. Um well, it's a scan, so it's a PDF. So when you upload it, I believe the
program asks you, do you want this locked or not, right? So any personal information we lock, right? The the deeds, that's public information that's unlocked, right? The picture of the grave site, that's unlocked, right? So that's that's the process. The okay, the
software allows you to lock what whichever one you want. So what do you lock and and those are locked? Anything personal? Mhm. They are locked because if you're saying you're putting the information in, I went in through the public portal and that other than
gravestone pictures, right? There's nothing and you can go in through the public portal and say, "Let me see the veterans." So just from the public portal, anybody that has a web connection can say, "Let me see
Lunenburgg's veterans. I'm gonna go look at every stone, every every thing. And there's the gravestone picture, right? Right. I I I mean I do think in general if hearing the conversation
about the cleanup of the files and the organization of the files together with the software, you know, where this is a initiative, this is a one-time in nature kind of project. It it's probably unlikely that in his daytoday duties that the cemetery uh superintendent has
the capacity to really do this in one chunk to to really handle it and that he's been chipping away at it over time. Um, but certainly if the commission is interested in getting this done in one chunk, you're probably going to have to,
you know, put this out for an outside entity to come in and and get it to a different baseline than it's at now. Okay. Can I ask one more question? So, in talking about the general records though, we have boxes of records that
um, Bill said are um, no new records. They're all 10 years old and previous. Should we even be worried or is that just a town problem? Is it that our problem or is it So, um there are
the Massachusetts uh Secretary of State has a records retention manual for municipalities that is extremely extensive um and it handles a variety of records. Um while almost everything that we do just as general municipal
government 101 a little bit here but almost everything we do we're everything we do we're creating public records of some type. Now those records like I said earlier may be exempt from release for one reason or another or maybe partially exempt for release. Um but that said each type of document under that
record's retention schedule has a different um different retention. So for example, if I write a note to myself and I throw that note away, I take a phone message, I throw it away. That is for administrative convenience only. You
don't need to email the secretary of records in order to destroy it, right? It's administrative convenience versus, for example, a set of draft minutes, right? A set of draft minutes are a record until uh the formal minutes are accepted and then that time they can be destroyed without seeking permission.
But there's all different depending on the record type. There's all different times that you need to keep them. Anywhere from one year is typically on the low end up permanent on the high end. What we don't, and I think
municipalities struggle with this in general, is we don't do a good job of segregating out what we need to keep versus what we can seek permission to destroy. Um and you you often have some
place in a town government where there's boxes and boxes of records um that we're keeping and not all of those are records that we need to keep permanently. So it does make sense to go through and separate them into different types of
records so that you're not keeping the thing that or the many things likely that don't even have a retention to them. um you know TC Pacios uh we're going to be as a community doing a huge
purge of records um this this summer um that's where our kind of collection is of old records but it is not uncommon but it's really the understanding what the records retention schedule is for each record type and then the a best
practice would be to segregate in early while you're working on the files and they're not 10 years old and you don't know what's in the segregating them by type and labeling them what the destruction date is. Okay. And do you have a list of Yeah, it's it's um so it's right online. Um
it's uh the municipal records retention schedule. There's uh if folks are interested in looking at it. Um there are records in common that apply to all sorts of different agencies within the town, but then then it dials down to
specific record types. So everything from payment receipts, um, everything everything we touch is in that that manual and we are going to be doing some staff training over the summer as well because I think a refresher is always good. Great. Thank you. Thank you so
much for bringing But who owns those records? Should the commission even be worried about this? Um, is is that or is that under the DPW and really under the DPW? So should we unless there's records
that of the commission's records, your records of your meetings and that your meeting files, those belong to the commission and the commission should be making sure you're keeping those. Um, anything that the commission kind of does on its own would belong to the
commission. But as it relates to the cemetery and what is physically happening within the cemetery, I'd say those are likely DW's records. Okay. But it is our software that again that is purchased and that's why we that's
why this committee has taken this as far as um but working with the DPW to make sure that it's secure that's all. So okay thank you. Thank you so much. So this is my recommendation and see what your thoughts are and if you
agree or not agree we can vote on it any way you'd like. If we started you off with one meaning one file cabinet to put in the DD214s that you need to keep obviously for right now so on and so forth and how are you doing it um you
may find that in that looking at the boxes deciding the next project cuz I see this as being two projects and the next one is to figure out if you truly are going to either hire someone in to do this project how much money it's going to you know what your thoughts are
and look at it that way what is your two thinkings. I mean, does that sound reasonable to you, Bill? That's a good approach. Yeah. Okay. So, would you like to take a vote
to um and my thought is my humble thought is again always to save money is the fact that you know this one um which is WB Mason which is the tan color. We don't care what color it is. It's a little it doesn't weigh as much. and the fact that it's a,000 just about $1,000
uh less. Um would that work again for everyone? So it's that one there. So it's 1744 which we we have stated that we would pay for that. Okay. So it's just a
little shorter depth. It's just a few inches shorter. What do you think, Bill? Is that Yeah, that's that's the one I was looking at, too. Is that the one you were thinking? Okay. All right. So, do we want to make We just want to make sure that we have
access to it also. So, when it gets delivered, I mean, I'm sure there's two keys with it. So, we should have access to it also. I think that's a decision that you, the commission, need to make
if that's something I think that needs to be figured out. I wouldn't say that right at this time only only because of that of the DD214s and things. We don't need to see the DD214s.
Yeah. What do we want to We don't That's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to separate this where it needs to be separated because that piece is it really isn't Well, let me ask you then. Why are we purchasing the cabinet if we're not really Because why doesn't the
DPW purchase it? Be because a my humble opinion is because we have the money that could purchase it for them. It's a good gesture um for the software. Like I said, we have the software. We're the ones that purchase the software for
them. I I kind of look at this as goes hand in hand a little bit, but yeah, we could say um you're daytoday, but our sale of lots is dayto-day. So, we could say um we're we're going to take uh or or it could be
um you know part of um you know the cost of the land its care improvement you know it's part of we we can say it's part of the cemetery but the DPW has the control
just like the lawnmowers and all so right I think it's a could buy to get this going, kick it off, give you that resource and uh right and then maybe we can figure out again
your next piece, your next phase of this is to figure out how much money it's going to cost, how many hours it's going to cost to bring someone in. Maybe then you could maybe share the cost. Maybe not. Like I said, I think it all needs to be looked at and see what the costes actually be to that. But I think it's a
good gesture with again the software that's that they to me they go hand in hand a little bit. Yeah. And then your data you're you are receiving paperwork on a daily or weekly basis if if it's stuff you need to lock up preferably
instead of leave on a desk or put in a drawer, you put it in the um the cabinet and and you're good until it's scanned and destroyed. And the DDPW again, anything that a lot is going to be someone is going to resell it back to
the town or you know, again, they're going to be given money back. You have to file that paperwork. It has to come to us. We'll be signing it. So, it's not like we're not seeing those things. I guess that's the point. As far as a DD2, I do not my thoughts, especially having
military in in in our family, is that you don't need to see that. Um, that's something personal of that particular person and that has been brought up and like I said, I do agree with that piece of it. That that's that's my humble
opinion on on that. Okay. As cemetery chair. So, do we want to make a motion to Are you okay with this state? I'm okay with buying the Okay. Buying the one. Can I make a motion uh to use up to
$2,000 from the sale of lots fund to procure a secure file cabinet for recordkeeping for the DPW. I second it. All in favor? I I motion
passed. Ezekiel, I just want to ask one question as we're as we just motioned this and stuff. Is you're fine with that doing that that way of pulling it from that fund? Correct. Yes. Okay. Perfect. And Bill, you're okay with with
Oh, yeah. This is good. Perfect. Okay. Are we ready for public comment? Is there anything that um needs to be stated on this end? Do you want to say anything about your your what your document? No, I did distribute what I was putting together just to capture our
our meeting discussions and uh projects we uh talked about and committed to. I put in and and in if case uh um any other uh organizations in the town um like the
finance committee want a snapshot of where we are and it basically gives the charge and the uh the um board where our cemeteries are, you
know, the snapshots from the GIS information so people can See, um I was surprised to see our north cemetery with the back, not the back lot for development, the back lot, which is
mostly wetlands, is is a um let's see what is that about a 50 acre plot. So, um it's pretty extensive. Um and then,
um yeah, brief slide holder on each project just so we can say, okay, um, you know, like the fish street, you know, have we quoted the the rocks for the wall? Have we purchased
them? Have we prepped the area? When's the install going to be done? Things like that. And then um the ram maker um data on number of burials by year. So we can kind of look at
um when when our current uh inventory of sellable lots will be uh bled down and we need more space because I think too long term you know at one point somebody
stood on the corner of Page Street and said you know uh do we want 25 by 50 feet and someone else said no we want 200 by a th00and feet and that has worked well for us for 300 years and but
now we're at that point. We're at the last uh very end of South Cemetery and um yeah, North Cemetery, of course, we have our plans to expand that lot, but you know, at some point, what do do we
even want to propose another acquirement of a large parcel to So, so I I just wanted to Are you Is anything else? No, that's it. That's it. So, I just wanted to say again, thank
you, Mike, for putting all of this together. Um, it'll be a work in progress. Bill, I know you probably haven't had time to totally look at it. You're going to meet with Mike regarding it. Um, I think the most important thing, it's a cheat sheet. It's basically going to, it's like an
operational, right? Right. um manual so that all the information will be there and if there's any other committees Ezekiel has been also looking at it and then I think the final pieces is is definitely send it to the town manager and let her review it to see if there's anything that we're haven't thought of
needs to be in there um and I think then we're pretty good with it and then just keep keep it updated. Okay, that's my thoughts. Thank you, Michael. Oh, you're welcome. I know it's a lot of a lot of work you put into it.
So, all right, let's go into if there's anything else. No. Yes. Okay, let's go into public comment. Do we have any public comments today? I think I'm the only know.
Hi everyone. John Bowen, 162 Highland Street. Uh, just wanted to comment on a couple of things. Um uh the record retention law um uh for the Massachusetts public uh records uh
retention law is different from the federal government's law under uh the freedom of information act as well as under the privacy act of 1974. Those are completely separate from what is on loan to the town that would
belong to the federal government. For example, TD214, social security numbers that belongs to Department of Treasury, Department of Defense, that falls under federal law, not state law. The state only has that on loan. And that is the
federal law that any federal record within the state is only on loan by the federal government agency who gave it to you for loan. It is not for dissemination by that's why we have a veterans officer. So, if somebody needs a DD214, they're cleared by the federal
government. That's just to clear that up. As far as throwing records out, Bill, I have to say that I think that you're incorrect. I don't think you're throwing records out. You are throwing records out, are you? Because then you'd be in violation of the Massachusetts public records law. You just admitted here uh publicly that the cemetery
superintendent is throwing out your records. Is that true? I mean, I'm kind of concerned with that and I think that that's your oversight and you should probably check in on that because you shouldn't be throwing out records. Even if you scan them into a computer, there's still records, okay, that need
to be kept for paper for a certain amount of years. I believe Massachusetts majority of it 7 to 10 years. So, that being said, I kind of have a problem with throwing out of records. Lastly, um I think that the discussion for the Raymaker program has been admitted to
what I have been saying that there is access in the back end to DD214s and scanned items and documents of which you have gained and acquired access without permission. And I think that I'm not the only citizen that's been calling this board and making comments with regard to that. And that's why this got raised today. I just want to make sure that
it's very clear that I know you're tapping her. I'm at my three minutes. Okay, don't worry Dave, you can say it. Um I I think that it's very clear okay that you finally started to look at exactly what I have been bringing forward. Now what you need to look at is the cemetery mutual benefit cemetery
corporation of which I have brought forward and presented to this town and see how that can benefit because what you're saying is you don't want to deplete a fund. You don't want to deplete money from your perpetual care money or from your sale of lots money. You want to hold that. Well, why don't you try turning it around? Pay attention
to my presentation. Instead of ignoring me for three years, you should have listened to my presentation and accepted my offer to present it here, then try to call the police on me. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you, Mr. Bowen. Is there any other public
comments? Okay. During this time, you want me to um I am going to basically um have a public comment here. Um, basically this is as I leave the
cemetery commission. Um, I would like to read what I have put together and know from my heart and also from the cemetery commission um of of what we have done from day one of the cemetery commission
being put into place. My experience as cemetery commission chair has been more than insightful and informative as the workings of the town government. Our time together has come to an end as my term is ending in May.
The cemetery commission has been blessed with special individuals that stood behind this commission and what it stands for. We have all navigated through rough waters while finding our compass in a
time of my leadership that I am proud of. Our ability to stir steer the ship forward was not easy for our commission. but with the support from our past interimm town manager Carter
Tranzini, our new town manager Jennifer Warren, Select Board Vice Chair Michael Ray Jeff, and other board members, Town Council Adam
Costa, financial director Ezekiel Anala, and several dedicated individuals. ual and residents that supported these efforts. I am personally grateful for all their support. I would also like to thank both
commissioners that have given their time unselfishly by serving with me during this time. They will be stirring this commission forward in the years to come. each one caring for the process while
each one caring for the cemetery commission and how it serves the town of Lunenburgg. It has been my honor to stand in front of the town and to thank you for the knowledge that I have
received being your cemetery commission chair. I wish this commission the very best in going forward as I step off. Thank you so much. Thank you, Madame Chairman. Um, I just
would like to say that you have put a lot of effort into being on the commission here and being the chair. Um, it does take a lot when you come on board to know about the
town policies, to know about what you can do and what you can't do. Um, town politics is a big thing with being on the board here. uh and you have done a great job in
proceeding to put this commission in place and I I really appreciate that. Um the town's people will see what you've done and
um I think it's it's just been fantastic. Now some people would say that uh having a a a person no matter male or female as a chairperson I can say that you have put
effort and effort behind the scenes into this u position and I don't know if we can really um stand up to what you you've done when
you leave. I hope we do, but I think you've you've put um a lot of effort into it and I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Dave. That was very well said. Yes. Thank you. Flowers you
guys some flowers token of our appreciation there. Thank you very much. Thank you. That's lovely. I just like I said just in closing, I just can't thank you all enough for all your efforts. Um
it's not been easy and I thank thank you for all that you've done and I like I said I wish you the best going forward. I would like to say a special thank you that I didn't is that Kathy Kurrick and
her organization and Ellen and the ones behind the scenes uh with Joe and also Heidi from public access and you know there's just so many different um mechanisms that's behind the scenes of
processes that people do. I I just can't thank you enough. It's it's so much appreciated. Um and Bill, thank you for your time of being here and uh going through this process. So with that being
said, is there anything else? Okay, I would like to adjourn this meeting. Um motion to adjourn. Second. All in favor? Hi. We