commission. That's my cue. All right, everybody. Welcome to uh Wednesday, August 6 uh August 5th uh conservation commission meeting. In
accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law, please be advised that this meeting is being audio and video recorded. The agenda lists all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and those reasonably anticipated by the chair. Votes taken from these discuss votes may be taken from these
discussions. Not all items discussed and other items may be raised to the extent permitted by the open meeting law. Please be advised that the town of Lunberg utilizes Zoom platform as a host for its hybrid or remote meetings. that the Zoom platform utilizes AI technology
known as AI companion to create audio transcriptions of meetings to aid in the subsequent preparation of meeting minutes and that the AI companion is activated immediately upon launching the Zoom application. You are hereby notified that this AI technology may
capture audio prior to the start of the meeting and or following the conclusion of the meeting. Okay, I'm gonna uh take a roll call. Uh Jenny Puther I know is absent today. Rich Bers >> present.
>> Mike Larouche >> here. >> Teddy Ducet >> here. >> Andrea Bernett >> here. is everybody we were expecting today. I have to make a quick note to make
certain that I get my cheat sheet for call and roll calls at each of the uh each of the hearings. Okay. Do we have any public comments by uh members of the commission? >> Madame Chair.
>> Yes. >> You have not called yourself in by as being here or not, but >> Okay. I'm here. >> Okay. >> As the chair. Thank you. >> All right. >> And that's Mary Wilson. Thank you, Mike.
Okay. Do we have any um comments? Public comments by members of the commission. Okay. And now we'll move over to public comment. Comments are to be limited to three minutes and on a subject matter under the direct jurisdiction of the commission. Comments about current agenda items are to be made during the
comment period of the specific agenda item. Please address all comments to the chair. And as with public comments uh for this andor agenda items, uh please state your name and your address. Do we have any public comments? And I
see Greg Roy, you have your hand raised. >> Thanks, Madam Chair. Greg Roy with Doulson Roy. I don't know if you were going to call for it, but I wanted to um let you know that I I think that um we will be requesting a continuation for 91 Round Road, which is later in your
meeting. Uh because we haven't um we still don't the situation is the same since we opened the meeting a few weeks back. We have not received D comments yet or file number. So, >> okay. Very good. If you wanted to do that early to keep people uh to keep
people uh that might be on the the meeting uh giving give their night back, then I I offer that. >> Okay. Yeah, I think I uh I think I will make a note of that and we'll do that. Uh first up, thank you, Greg.
Other uh public comments. Uh I see Chris McKenzie. Uh you have your hand raised. Yes, Madam Chair. Uh Chris McKenzie from Dillis and Roy. Uh I guess Greg didn't check his emails earlier. Uh we did
receive uh the D file number for that uh for that one on uh on Round Road. >> Okay, Chris, I just checked the website. It wasn't there, but uh that's good to know.
>> Wow. We talk we're talking about law 18. Is that correct? Yeah, I just checked the DP site. It wasn't there, but >> yeah. Uh, they sent an email to me and I sent that to you earlier today. >> Okay. I haven't checked email all day. I've been out of the office. So, thank you for that, Chris. I guess we're on.
>> All right. >> All righty. >> Okay. And uh, Herin. >> I just wanted to say that yes, we did receive a DP file number and I uploaded it to OpenGV. Sorry, Greg. You're out of the loop.
Awesome. Okay. Um, and then Herland, uh, with, uh, with Jenny, and I forgot to ask earlier today, who manages the waiting room? You or her? >> I do. >> Okay. Excellent. That's a great answer. I love that answer.
All right. I don't see anybody else uh with their hands raised, so let's move on to the pollinator habitat. uh like >> um I don't see any new photographs um from the pollinator habitat, but I'd
like to share a story where while I was on the shed roof, I just heard this uh this natural u noise coming from the grassy area. And uh suddenly I saw this
white-tailed deer just you know walking uh softly through the grass and I go wow this is a beautiful place. So, I just wanted to extend that um to everyone um that the habitat is a very
magical place whether you're working on the roof or just going there taking in all the flowers and the pollinators who are going to those flowers and plants. So, for that
um I thank the pollinator pollinator habitat for being there so I could experience that. >> That's excellent. Thank you, Mike. Okay. Okay. Um, moving along. Meeting minutes. We have u meeting minutes from 7:15.
Uh, do I have a motion to approve? >> So move. >> Second. And so that was Andrea and uh for the initial movement and Mike for the second. >> Yes. >> Roll call vote. Rich Bur.
>> Hi >> Mike Larouche. >> I >> Teddy Ducet >> I >> Andrea Bernett >> I >> and I for myself approve the meeting minutes from uh
7:15. Now we move on to new public uh hearings. Do we have anything besides the lineouts that uh were continued? Any last minute uh continuations? Uh Hurland?
>> Yes. 701 Reservoir Road. Uh I received a message from uh Dillison Roy asking for a continuation on this one. >> Okay. All righty. Um,
so I think uh what I'm going to do is I'm going to take that one first and just line it so we can line it out. And if there's anybody here that's here for that, they won't have to wait until then to see what happens. Um,
all hearings are pursuant to Mass General Law Chapter 131 section 40 is amended and the town of Lunberg wetlands protection and municipal bylaws. uh notice of intent uh by the Reservoir Recreational Trust for the conservation
of a new of a new concrete boat ramp at Lake Shirley um on Lake Shirley at Shady Point 701 Reservoir Road. And I understand from our agent that uh the applicant has requested a continuation.
Is that a continuation to the next uh hearing which is uh where is that? August 19th. >> August the 19th. Do I have a motion uh to continue >> by the commission? Okay. Thank you. Do
we have a second? >> Second. >> Thank you, Teddy. >> Uh roll call vote. Rich Bers, >> I. >> Mike Larouche, >> I. >> Eddie Ducet, >> I. Andrea Bernap
>> I >> and I for myself. The easy one out of the way. Okay, moving along. All hearings uh pursuant to master general law chapter 131 section 40 as amended and the town of
Lunberg's protection and municipal bylaws. Uh, notice of intent filed by Jacqueline Ragger for a driveway crossing of isolated wetland area at 108 Sunny Hill Road. Do we have the applicant andor their uh, representative here on the
call tonight? >> Good evening. Uh, Chris McKenzie from Dillis and Roy here to represent uh, Jacqueline Ra Ranger on this property. Um, she's uh, she's working tonight and isn't available to attend. >> Okay. Very good. Do you have do you have
the uh plans or drawings that you'd like to share with us and review today? >> Yeah. Yeah. If I can share, I can uh >> that would be excellent. >> Put it right up on the screen here. It's not letting me do it yet. I think somebody needs to allow me to
share. You have to request sharing privileges and I can then give them to you. >> Uh how do I do that? >> Okay, let's see. >> I've not done that before. Usually they just allow me to share host disabled
attendee sharing screen sharing. Here we go. Now I got it. >> You got it. Great. I rightcicked on your name to look for permission. I didn't see it listed. >> Yeah. How's that? Can everybody see that? >> It's still painting to my screen. There
we go. >> All right. Uh so this is the existing property. Uh uh there's an existing house at 108 which is located in the top part of the screen here. Uh this little uh area right here is the septic system. and their driveway and house are located off
off the screen here. The the proposed house for this property is going to be out behind that property uh for 108. There's a proposed duplex proposed back here with septic system and leech area over there. Uh driveway access to the
site. This is coming uphill from the road. Uh the driveway access coming off of Sunny Hill Road has to cross through an area located here. There's about uh I think eight or nine flags that were laid out um as a uh isolated wetland. Uh I
believe this is really there's a catch basin located here and uh I suspect this is really just a backup of water that isn't making it to the catch basin. Uh there's no inlet or outlet otherwise. It's just kind of an isolated spot. Uh but in order to get a driveway in
through there, we've got to fill some of that uh that isolated area located here about 692 square ft. Uh so we're proposing to to fill that area and uh to replicate that uh 692 square ft located
here in the yellow area. Um and then of course bring the driveway up and out of the buffer zone as quickly as we can and up to the house. Uh we show erosion control barrier all around the whole project within the buffer zone and of course around the
replication areas. Um that really about covers there's really not much to it other than that. There's obviously a water line will have to be come up and and utility lines for power and stuff like that. Uh Chris, what's the replication area uh
compared to the uh proposed uh limited fill area? >> I did a one one uh I didn't uh increase that at all. It seemed uh seems to me that this is an area really. I I we didn't do an intense topography
of the area. Um, but we shot the rim of the catch basin. Then we took a shot just beyond uh going towards the property here. And the the the shot that we took off off of the catch basin is actually lower than the catch basin rim.
So what's happening is water is coming to try to go to the catch basin. It's not making it there and it's just more or less getting backed up into this area. Um, so we basically call for a one to one replication. We certainly could increase that. uh by coming up the hill
a little bit further. Um it's a little tough to get the driveway squeezed in here. Um and still have some reasonable room here. Obviously, the higher up the hill we go, the harder it's going to be to make a a replication area that's
going to actually actually stick. Um this this is more or less at the same elevation as this area um that we're filling. It's a little higher up up in the back corner of it over here. Uh the area in question too I from the
sidewalk looked like it was an area of mature tree growth as well. >> Yeah. I it's been untouched for a long time. I suppose probably since they they did the last work on the road when they put the catch basin in and stuff like that.
>> Yeah. Um so where would trees stay and where would trees be removed to put this uh driveway? trees would have to be removed obviously anywhere where the driveway is running. Um, and it's also going to have to get
they're also going to have to get removed anywhere where the replication area is going. Um, >> right? >> Because in order to do that, they have to remove all that that soil uh down to an elevation that that'll work for the groundwater table to to create a a
wetland area there. So, any trees in that area have to get removed. the trees within this in within the wetland area that is not being altered, those will be fine. Uh but anything obviously coming up the up the driveway on either side of it for probably about 20 ft wide will
will have to be removed. The entire site is pretty much wooded with the exception of a uh you can see a little bit little bit area back here. Um this is a the existing tree line. So, there's a bit of a field on that existing lot down below, but other than
that, it's completely wooded. >> Okay. And, uh, do the plans, um, moving kind of up gradient on this, uh, drawing, do the plans actually have anything that, uh,
accommodates for that raised elevation for the septic field and that sharp drop off drop off from the septic field. How do you how do you ensure water doesn't just sheet off and and into the next property? >> Right. The title five uh requires a
minimum grading in this location and we meet that grading. It's a 3 to one slope which is considered stable by them with some lowman seed on it. >> Okay. And and that answers the title five obligations. How do you ensure that the water from here doesn't just pour
into the next property? Well, again, this is it meets title five requirements for the grading for a system. So, it it's meant that standard is designed to not allow water to flow onto
the neighboring property. This is the septic system area is not impervious. >> It'll have seed. It'll be be brought back to the, you know, same kind of condition with a vegetated surface that will uh, you know, absorb rain water
just like any other lawn area. >> Okay. It just looks like there's some steep elevations uh, back in there. >> They're a 3 to1 slope. That's standard title five system design. We design it that way for every system we design.
Well, that on what I'm trying to say is that on top of the natural topology of the land, it looks like it's a little bit steeper up in that area. >> It will be. Yes. Because it's a filled system. Uh the groundwater tables a little high here. So, we had we had to
uh build up the the leech area uh to meet the title five requirements for groundwater separation. And that results in in, you know, a system being higher. And so at a 3:1 slope, it takes us a little while to get down back to existing grade. You can see
a proposed grading easement over here. And there's an uh an easement line that's going to run right along here. That's uh there for the for the reserve area fill, which really comes down the the hill even further uh in order to meet the the fill requirements for the
reserve area, which is not being built at this time. It's there in case it does ever have to later on. Um but we also had to provide a proposed grading easement that goes beyond that the the limit of the reserve area Phil uh
because this is a presby system which has a smaller footprint than a conventional system. When we design a a presby system, we're required to show that a conventional system could be built on the property. Therefore, we
need a the easement. Uh I I have a page two if you'd like to see it. It shows the the the size and scope of a conventional system that would if installed here would be much larger and much more intrusive on the entire site. Uh I can just hop right over to that
sheet right here. Oh, of course it's all turned off. Sorry, my mistake. My apologies. It would show here if there was a conventional layout. It was it was set to be here. It must have been turned off when we did this particular uh print of the plant, but I assure you it's
quite a bit larger uh than the presby system and far more intrusive. Um so we've done everything we can in >> but still if if a conventional system had to be put in there presumably could still be accommodated within the um parcel.
>> Yes. >> Okay. >> We're required to do that. I could probably I know I have another copy of that plan that has the uh has that on it. >> Yeah, I think we would need to see that just you know for full kind of accountability on on what's sure could
go on here. >> Um >> all right. And then getting back to your driveway, how uh how are you ensuring that uh driveway runoff doesn't get into the existing wetland system or the replication area?
Obviously, erosion control barriers will be put in place uh during construction. Um then all all the side slopes will be stabilized um before the erosion control barriers are removed. >> Yeah, I think I would be looking for uh
some type of uh I don't know, French strain or or something that would keep runoff from going into those to those areas. Well, that's my thought, right? >> This area is basically created from
runoff coming down and and not making it to the to the catch basin that's located there. So, uh it really this is the only area for the water to go. We can't really make it go some other place.
>> How about a swale or something like that? >> A swale to to where? >> I don't know. encourage it to go to the opposite side of the driveway. >> Okay. And that's just going to end up down in the road.
So, if I put it over onto here and I swail everything over into this area and it comes down, uh, where's it going to go here? So, do you We could I suppose we could swail this all the way down to here and do a culvert underneath. put a
swale there and put a water garden or something uh upland there to minimize the, you know, full length of the driveway uh discharge it onto the road or the into the wetland >> up in this little corner right here.
>> Uh farther upland. >> Well, they this that's not part of the property. The property line >> Well, see where you say existing 100 ft wetland buffer zone. one foot buffer zone. Yeah. >> Yeah, that is that is on the um property.
>> Okay. So, you're talking about up here, not down near the roadway. >> Yeah. So, you could encourage everything from uphill to drain into that. So, then the rest of the driveway is not is the only thing that might be at risk to
drain into the road or into the into the wetland. that would mitigate um it looks like a large amount of uh driveway drainage potentially. >> Y we could work something out with that. >> Well, and again, I'm I'm just one voice.
Let me uh see if any of the other commissioners have uh similar concerns or uh have other questions. >> Sure. >> We have questions or comments from members of the commission. Uh yes, S Ducet. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I agree
with your uh sentiment here. I think a rain garden to help minimize the runoff um and some native plant things would be great, especially since we're um proposing to move and like replicate the wetland
area. I would like to see additional um uh water catchment there. I I like your idea, Mary. >> Okay. Thank you, Teddy. Uh Rich Bers, >> thank you, Madam Chair. Uh Chris, I had
a couple quick questions. Number one, the limit of the work for the driveway prior to the ideas of the rain garden are the erosion protection barriers. That's the limit of work. >> That's correct, Richard.
>> All right. So, no no trees outside of that barrier currently are scheduled to come out. >> Correct. >> Okay. Um, second thing, I'm not a fan of a onetoone replication area. And that may help with some of the storm water
problems or Mary's idea of putting uh the small rain garden in on the other side to try to help mitigate. I mean, we're going to increase the velocity of the water coming down this hill, but we're only at a we're leaving that
isolated wetland that is the natural catch basin now at the same size. So it will I think get inundated. Um what is the elevation of the catch basin? >> Uh
about 485.55. >> Okay. So 485.55. But you're saying that that elevation is impounding the water behind it in the isolated wetland area, >> right? What doesn't show >> 487, >> correct? What doesn't really show on the
plan because it's all done with contours is the actual shots that we take, the actual ground shots that the surveyors take. And there's a shot that is approximately right about where the cursor is. And that is elevation
485.4. So, it's it's a tenth lower, but it is lower. And we all know water doesn't go uphill. Um, now we didn't do an intense survey of this area. So, I don't know what else is going on there, but that
one shot indicates to me that this spot is lower than the catch basin. So, if water gets here, it's going to stay here. It's not going to get to the catch basin. I don't know what that means going up this way or if there's basically just some kind of berm or
something in here that's just enough to prevent water from getting through and holding it back. It's hard to really tell without a intense uh investigation into that. >> All right. And I assume the um the replication area is going to be 487
>> 487 for an elevation. >> Um it it's going to this 488 contour that I show right here. Proposed contour comes and wraps around the outside of that. Uh I don't designate a specific elevation in here. Uh, I don't know that we could cut this all the way down to
487 um without intruding into this wetland to make it connect. We We need to keep the elevation equivalent at the connection where these where these meet. >> Mhm.
>> If we go lower, we're going to more or less create a a burm in between there. So I can't I can't if I bring this down to 487 over here, there's going to be a burm here and then it's going to drop back down again. So that'll that'll cause a problem. So this
>> it's going to be below 488. Then it just you didn't have any final grade in there. So I was just seeing investigating what we're going to be at the um at the end of construction. And do you have a construction schedule
showing that the driveway will be put in, all of the grading will be stabilized inside the 100 foot buffer, and the replication area will be constructed. >> At the same time, >> we have uh some notes in here. I I don't
recall specifically uh what the orders are on it, but we do have some in here. >> Can you make that larger, please? Yeah, >> thank you. >> So, it does talk this is mostly for the replication area um and and how that is
being constructed. >> Okay. Yeah, I read through it, but I didn't see a schedule as far as I would like to see the all of the stabilization and the replication area all done uh during the construction phase of the driveway. So,
in the beginning so that we get all of that stabilized. So if something happens and this project sits over a season or two, we don't all of a sudden have open ground running and erosion problems into the isolated
wetland that is existing plus the replication area that we're trying to establish. >> Right. Well, it's typically the practice is that you you need to do the replication and the filling at the same time.
>> That's that's standard practice. So, are you saying you want to make sure that the driveway is constructed at that same time? >> Um, unless you want to do it before the driveway. >> Well, right. Well, that's I'm just
trying to understand what you're asking. I don't know if I quite understand. I I I would like to I mean it shouldn't we're not talking months of construction there. I I personally would like to see the driveway put in at the same time as replication area so that we're grading in the same area and then everything is
stabilized and the replication area is established >> all one swoop. >> All buffer zone work done at at the same time more or less. >> Yep. at at the beginning prior to construction of the house and all of the upland grading.
>> Right. Right. Well, there's really no access to the to the work area up there without building the driveway first. >> Um I I don't think they want to go through the existing house lot uh to do that because that would that would just be some additional construction that
would be needed to to get back there. So, the driveway will have to be uh built before uh they can build the house. Okay. >> So, I think what I heard, Rich, is that uh Chris agrees putting in a uh construction uh schedule uh to detail uh
out the replication area first uh and stabilization done by the time the driveway is done is acceptable. Is that what I think I heard, Chris? >> Yes. All during all during the construction phase of the driveway. >> Yeah. And that would be
>> prior to obviously uh any uh any construction for the building starting. >> Other questions or comments from members of the commission? And one thing I did want to point out with any with any replication area is
that we uh we expect that to be monitored over course of two years uh with a uh and monitored by a certified uh wetland uh replication scientist. I think it's a wetland scientist. We have some canned language that I'm
certain Hurling can uh find for us if need be. just to put that out there as an expectation in case anybody has any concerns or wanted to ask questions about that. >> Okay. >> Uh are there any uh questions or
comments from members of the public? Uh and if so, um you know, raise your hand and uh state your name and address and and I'll call upon you. And I will say that uh that uh it was shared uh with the commission. Some um
butters uh in the area shared uh concerns and express current concerns about existing uh road conditions and storm water. I guess uh there's a lot of water that runs onto the road that doesn't uh that accumulates there and
causes some hazardous conditions. And we have a number of abutters that are concerned about uh how much this project uh if permitted would contribute to that current condition. Um and there were photos that were shared. I don't know. Her if you have access to those uh and
could share them, but that might be helpful. >> Let me try. >> Um thank you. Uh Colleen, I see your hand raised. If you could uh state your name and your address. >> Hi, my name is Colleen Costich. I am at 119 Sunny Hill Road in obviously
Lunenburgg. Um I believe the driveway is being proposed right across the street from my house. Um the biggest concern I have is um flooding. We have huge huge flooding
problems in this area. Um, this past Monday, I had rivers going down both sides of my house, pouring into my basement. I had a lake in front of my house. I am probably
the lowest point of Sunny Hill Road, and I was out moving sandbags around my property in the pouring rain because it's so bad. So, I don't really have a problem with anything that anybody wants
to do with their property. I just have a problem if it's going to negatively affect the huge problem that we already have on Sunny Hill Road. Thank you, Colleen. Thank you. And Colleen, were you uh the app of the a
butter that shared uh photos or was that one of your neighbors? Oh, Colleen, you went on mute. >> Sorry about that. Um, that's okay. >> I am not the one that submitted that those pictures, but I did share some of those pictures with my neighbor. So,
some of the pictures that they had forwarded to the conservation commission were my pictures. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Let me just download those photos and
then I think I can share them. >> Harland, it said I think you said that you weren't able to share them. >> I am not. It says because I am a host it won't let me share and I think it's the settings on this communal Zoom account.
Yeah, that's uh let's see if I download them. It's It's weird because I'm a co-host. Presumably, I should have the same issues as you, but at least for right now, it's saying that I can share them. Oh, it only downloaded one image. Let me go to the next image.
>> Madam Chair. >> Yes. Yes, Rich. >> Um to the abuter through you to the abutters that have um problems with flooding. Have anybody contacted the DPW? Because they do have to issue the permit
for the driveway. We we don't necessarily give the permit for the driveway. We're concerned about the runoff and how it affects the wetland, but as far as how it's going to affect the roadway, that is definitely more in the wheelhouse of the uh DPW. And they
do have to permit the uh driveway. So, I just wanted to get that in there. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Rich. Yeah, I'm not having luck finding the email right now either. So,
um and uh Colleen, you raised your hand again. >> Yes. Um, I just wanted to let you know I have not personally gone to the DBW, but I know my neighbor um has and we've been complaining about the drainage on the
road for years. Um, it was never this bad until they repaved and they put the I don't know if you want to call it BMS or curbing or something and that's keeping all of the rainwater in the road until it reaches our property. And
so I do know that the DPW is aware Okay, so I did find the photos. This is one of the photos. You can see a lot of uh a lot of I believe Colleen, do you recognize this photo? Colleen, you're on mute.
Sorry about that. Yes, that is taken um from my driveway at 119 Sunny Hill Road. And that >> So if we looked past this poll and we're Is that where the um the current uh applicant lives? >> Yes.
>> Okay. >> Okay. And so then that um catchment basin that exists is right here then? >> Yes. And when was this taken? Was this from this week? >> This was this was this week's storm. Yes, that was on Monday.
>> And that is to the left of my driveway at 119 in between my driveway and I believe I believe the Todd and Tabitha Jennison. I believe their house is 129. And so there is a basin right there on
the other side of the basketball hoop and there's just water overflowing that and a river going down into the back where the um where the I a stream normally is behind our houses there. So that entire from my house over to Todd
and Tabitha's driveway is a river. >> Okay. And then this is uh what looking straight out off your property. >> I have Yes. I just happened to open the door to take a picture of the lake in
the front of my yard and a car was coming through at the same time and I just happened to catch that picture right there. And that was after it stopped raining. It just holds water. >> Okay.
Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for giving us some context on those photos. Um Rich, one of the things I was wondering with that is I have seen, and we don't ask very often, but sometimes for driveways that are coming down steep
slopes, uh for a uh kind of uh drainage area at the end of the driveway, so it's not just sheeting onto the road. Would that be something to consider here, do you think?
>> Well, I'm not sure where they would put it because they're um the picture that you had with the um brick pavers directly across the street and just off to the um
apron. I can see the other catch basin that I believe is the one on the plan that um at the end of the wetland area. >> So, and unfortunately not knowing any more information about the the rain flow and the water and how often it backs up
and where the water goes to, I I don't see how we can dictate any more than what we have. >> Okay. Uh, any other commissioners have thoughts about that?
>> Yeah. And I mean, we can ask Chris, have you submitted this, Chris, to the DPW for a driveway approval? >> No, this has not gotten to that point yet. Typically, that's one of the last uh things to happen along with a building permit. You you kind of got to
get all the other things got to get all the ducks in a row before you can. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I would just recommend to the the um the neighbors that are concerned about the flooding to just make sure that you voice your concern about the permit to the DPW
and make sure that uh any any runoff that could hit the street is um mitigated. >> And Harland, do you have any uh comments or concerns or recommendations that you'd like to make to the commission? Uh, thank you, Madam Chair. So, a lot of
my concerns were addressed by either yourself or Commissioner Burch, but just in regards to the whole project. Um, in my meeting material notes, I just put in um that the commission may want the engineer to explain how runoff from the
leeching area and reserve area has been accounted for and confirm that the replication area will not receive concentrated discharge or experience altered hydrarology from the septic system. There's a 30-foot difference between where the rain um sorry where the isolated wetland is and where the
septic system is going. So I was just looking for uh mitigation. Okay. Um, and do you in your opinion if uh we asked for uh the rain garden uh on the northern side
of that uh you know and and kind of a little bit upland side of that uh driveway that that might uh provide some mitigation? >> I believe so. I also think um what Commissioner Bush said um was a good idea reaching out to DPW. I wonder if
there's something wrong with that drainage. um if it's not working properly, that can also help mitigate the whole situation. But I think that um a 2:1 replication would be more than suffice and also some sort of rain
garden. And Rich, I did uh I did capture that you had asked for uh uh greater than one to one replication, but I didn't hear did you ask for uh 2:1 uh replication area or um if they're willing to design a rain
garden on the opposite side of the driveway to help mitigate the runoff, I would consider that square footage, although it's not part of the replic replication area, but I would consider that as um in addition to the
replication area because it is protecting the wetland and helping it not to be inundated by the runoff. >> Okay. >> I mean, and I do understand it is just an isolated pocket wetland. So, you know, if it was part of a larger wetland
system, I I'm always in favor of 2:1 replication to ensure that we get a proper replication area over time. But in this case, I I I do understand that it's just an isolated pocket. So, if we do have the one one and then the
rain garden on the opposite side of the drive to help mitigate the runoff, personally, I think that's sufficient. >> Okay. Very good. And >> Harland remind me uh the uh replication
monitoring uh requirements that we uh prescribe. It's uh it's two years uh with oversight from certified uh I think it's a certified or accredited
uh wetland scientist. Is that for wetland biologist? >> Correct. It's a two It's a two growing season. They It's not two years >> growing two growing seasons, >> right? Two growing seasons. And typically a report is set up um
and it's easily uploaded to open gov and it has to be by a wetland scientist. Okay. I believe I believe this specific engineering firm has an in-house wetland scientist and that should be suffice.
>> Okay, very good. Um, just a minute. Lost my uh Do we have a D number for this one yet? Oh, >> it's a local filing only. It's not a state wetland. No filing has been made with D. >> Oh, because it's an isolated wetland.
Okay. It's our jurisdictional area only. Okay. >> Well, then very good. Uh what I heard was a um a need to add a uh construction uh schedule uh to the uh to
the drawing and then a uh request for that uh that water garden um in that in that area that we had discussed. uh Chris that currently has
the at the note on the 100 foot um I think it was 100 foot buffer but it has that note right so you're clear on that and for the commissioners is there anything else that we are requesting of the uh engineering representative that I
haven't uh called out and I'm not seeing any hands so it seems like adequately remembered it tonight or at least on this here. And so, uh, if we continued you to August 19th, would that be enough time,
Chris, or would you be looking for, uh, September? >> Uh, no. I, uh, August 19th. Uh, that's a couple weeks away. Uh, let can we go to September? Um, that'll just give plenty of time. I actually have
some time off coming up in between there somewhere, too. So, uh, I think I think we'd be best off going to September. Um, I certainly I I want to have our engineering department look at the the drainage situation out here. Um, in in
reference to the replication area. Um, there's really not a whole lot of area available that we can use to increase the replication area. Uh, I'm I'm kind of with Rich on this. If we uh uh do some uh rain gardens on maybe even on
either side of the driveway, um maybe uh that would be uh enough to suffice uh instead of doing one and a half or two to one uh two to uh one ratio. >> Okay. Yeah, look at it and see what you can come back with. I think that first
uh hearing in September is September 2nd. Earlin, check my calendar math on that. >> Correct. So I think I'm looking for a continuation to September 2nd. >> So moved. >> Thank you.
>> Second. Richard. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Uh roll call vote. Rich Bers >> I. >> Michael Rouch. >> I >> Teddy Det. >> I. >> Andrea Bernett >> I. >> And I for myself.
>> Thank you Chris. See you in about a month. >> Thank you very much. Have a good night everyone. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> All right, moving along. Pursuant to Mass General Law, Chapter 131, section 40 is amended in the town of Lunberg wetlands protection of municipal bylaws,
a notice of intent by uh Steven Violet for the construction of an irrigation pond at 157 Goodrich Street. Do we have uh Stephen andor his representative here on the call tonight? >> Madam Chair, Greg Roy with Doulson Roy.
I'm representing the applicant this evening. >> Very good. Do uh Greg uh do you have uh you want to share the project plans with us and overview? >> That would be great. Hang on one second. Let me see if I can make that happen.
>> I have sent a request to share. There we go. Yep. Got it. Uh screen are you seeing? Are you seeing the plan? >> Yes. >> Okay. My computer just did strange things on
me, so bear with me here. Okay. Um well, thank you again. This is Greg Roy with Dillison Roy. I'm representing the applicant this evening. Uh I do not believe Mr. Violet is here, but I think that uh John Mara is a
representative of the applicant. Uh so just for reference, he is on the call as well. And um wanted to be um brief this evening, but given enough uh due diligence here to to solicit the commission's comments um and of course
any comments from the abutters. Um we do not have a D just just to tell you where we're headed here. Uh we do not have a D number on this project. Um I did check my email uh while I was waiting for the last hearing. Uh and we did not get a D
number on this one that I know of. Um so we will not be able to close this evening, but I did want to get uh you know, I did want to come and introduce things uh with the hopes that we can get uh any comments in front of us so we can be ready to put the commission in a a position in the next uh next couple
weeks. Um, so the commission may recall this or at least some of you uh may recall this project. Um, it's essentially running the corner of Goodrich Street, which you can see here on the uh on the lower side of the of
the plan here and Lancaster A. Um the um there's an old farmhouse that's been recently uh renovated uh and sold uh right in right on the corner. And um we came before the commission. There's actually a uh a current order of
conditions um that was granted by your commission about a year ago uh plus or minus a few months uh for the construction of this access driveway that comes up uh right in this location here. um that that driveway has actually
now been constructed. We have not quite um gotten to the point to request a certificate of compliance uh from your commission. Um but that just for reference uh that work has been completed uh and installed that was done
earlier this summer uh by the applicant. Um we've been working with with Steve. Steve, of course, is uh is is a farmer. the property is um is used is directly adjacent to um the uh one of his one of
his fields uh which is which is on the um uphill side of this property. Um in fact the um the driveway that was permitted um was done so uh to provide access to those for those farming uh
activities. Um and the uh and Steve is interested in um in constructing an irrigation pond uh for the agricultural to support the agricultural use of those fields um which has been done on a couple of
properties um you know that he that he owns in the in the past uh historically. And uh and so this is a little bit of a different case that the commission may not see very often. Um, so I I actually wanted to take a quick minute and read a
section from the uh and just just reference the section from the Weapons Protection Act regulations that we're um that we're using for this. Um, just for reference, the section that allows this is uh is 10.53 5. That's the section uh that that talks
about um agricultural production. And then specifically subsection E of that um talks about how much square footage of boarding vegetated wetlands that can be converted uh for the use for agricultural ponds. And just to avoid
you having to turn to those pages, um section section, um excuse me, section five sort of requires um you know, consultation with the uh USDA um and then stipulates in subsection E
that um that 20,000 square feet of bordering vegetated wetland, so almost an acre, excuse me, um can be converted from bordering vegetated wetland to a uh to a water you know uh to for for the purposes of it to create an irrigation
pond. So um Steve has been in contact with the USDA. I think we submitted plans uh to you that were done uh initially done and provided in consultation with the with the USDA. We have further updated those um based on
the actual uh wetlands delineation that we performed on the site. um we had to tweak things a little bit to make sure that we stayed underneath the 20,000 square foot threshold um and and we're only altering altering that much excuse
me bordering vegetated wetland. So, um, turning to the plan, um, if you were to, um, take Goodrich Street, um, and and come down, uh, past that existing house on the corner and past the new driveway, you'd get down to an area where, uh,
where where we're proposing to work. The, um, see if I can zoom this in as much as possible. the um the hatched area that you see sort of the gray shading here area on the plan is the limits of the bordering
vegetated wetland as as they've been delineated uh by our office. Um, so we have a line here that runs roughly uh parallel to the I'm not tracing very well, but parallel to the uh to the roadway. And then this wetland line
actually was previously delineated um when we did the um the the road project um a year or so ago. the uh the dark uh circularish lines that you see here uh down in this
portion of the site would be the limits of the proposed pond on the property. Um earlier iterations of the and and and the property line just for reference is right here. Um so this this is the abuing uh property Mrs. Whitney who I
believe is also on the call. Um, so just for reference, earlier iterations of this um had the uh had this pond actually slightly larger uh down uh coming closer up to the uh to the edge of this uh where the where the property
line is. Um we pulled that back um in part to give some buffer but also uh just because we we had to um we had to honor the 20,000 square foot alteration. Um, and that was the uh seemed to us to be the most appropriate way to do it.
So, essentially what we're proposing to do um and and this was actually laid out by the uh this this concept was laid out by the USDA uh for us. We just again just kind of tweaked things uh from a location standpoint, but we're
essentially proposing to build um let me get a different pen here. This section right here would actually be a burm. So, we'd be filling a portion of the wetland uh right in this location uh
right here. So, this would actually be a fill up to a burm that's right here. And then we would be excavating down uh into the wetland area to create that to create that pond and the volume uh below the uh below the water table. And that's
important because most of the work that we're proposing in this portion here, all of this excavation where all the major earth work needs to occur and the volume is going to be completely isolated uh and and self-contained.
Um, so we're not going to have a situation where we have um where we have uh an unconsolidated excavation here that would be um that would have the the opportunity to um to push down uh down
gradient. Um we're going to be excavating this and all of this area will be lower um than the than the existing wetland system uh as it flows uh to the north off the property. So, um that's really important from a con from a erosion and
sedimentation control uh standpoint from a um from a dewatering construction standpoint. So, I guess I'll say I guess I'm trying to decide which which thing to talk about first. Um from a
hydraology standpoint, um this pond will utilize existing groundwater that's already there. So essentially we're just opening up a water surface uh and volume below the water table. So we the when
the when the pond is completed um there'll be a water surface in that pond that matches the existing water table in the area already. So essentially the the surrounding hills
will will filter into that um into that pond area. It does that today. You just don't see it because there's no volume. It's not excavated out. It filters into that wetland area though and the the the groundwater table is fairly close to the surface. At the end of the day, that
surface will match existing uh water tables before it flows off the property. So really all we're doing is we're accessing um the amount of water that's in the soil already and opening up uh this irrigation pond so that we can we
can utilize that volume of water for the uh irrigation of the fields. Because we're working uh because of that because we're excavating a pond in the water table, there is of course going to be a need to dewater um as we're
excavating. Uh, so we have provided um a a uh some dewatering specifications. We're actually going to be um I'm going to switch plans here, so be bear with me. I I apologize. I'm trying to be as
slow and methodical as possible. Um this plan here is an overview of the entire uh of the entire area. Um the pond area that that we're talking about would be excavated
right in this location. I'm going to switch uh this is the limit of the property right here. And actually the uh the agricultural property line goes all the way back up in here. This is all this is all Steve's um Mr.
Violet's land right here, including this. We're actually proposing to run the dewatering line straight uphill and along the edge of the field all the way over to this point here where there's an existing uh
there's a good place for it. Um, we can fairly easily using the existing topography create a uh a sedimentation area there. Um, and create a situation where it's not going to bother uh anybody. Um, you know, and we'll have
plenty of space basically utilizing the existing topography in that area uh to provide the uh the sedimentation of the uh dewatering flow um that we that will be generated during construction. Um, and that area is completely outside of
the buffer zones and resource areas, but I know your commission was going to be interested in it. Uh, so we we wanted to make sure we showed a uh a plan uh to you for that. Um, the only other thing that that I wanted to point out um
is that we are proposing to build uh a uh an access road. This access road will will not only be used during construction to excavate out the um to to do the excavation and and uh and remove the fill um excavated soil
material. Um but it will also uh be permanently left in place to provide access to the pond. Uh so you know for the purposes of of um of uh pumping uh and and producing the uh the water that's required for irrigating the
fields. I think uh that's where I wanted to leave it uh for now. I'm sure you you'll have some questions. Um as I said uh we are excuse me we are waiting for a D file number for this one. Um so um we
won't be able to close it but um we we are hopeful to um to keep the ball advancing here. So certainly happy to take any uh any questions or comments uh that the commission may have or any questions or comments from the uh from the abuters.
>> Thank you, Greg. Um so this is a new one on me. I've not had one like this come before me uh as a as commissioner since I've I've been here. Um, does this parcel need to be in farm use
uh for this uh uh exempted activity to happen? >> I think it has to be >> I know the abuing property is in farm use, but I didn't know that this one was and so that's why I was asking.
>> So, I guess I'm not quite sure uh on that or even on the status of that. All I can tell you Mary is that um the first initial phone call that was made here was to the USDA which is the which is sort of the first step for when we when we do these kind of things and they
provided the um you know the uh schematics and plans uh and plan for this. So uh I don't want to speak out of turn. I think I'll probably I'll probably confer with my client on that and get back to you in a couple weeks. But I I would imagine I'm saying this
for the record because I would imagine that USDA would have said if we needed to do something else before, you know, before we went and put this this process in place, but I'll I'll certainly circle back on that.
>> Okay. Um, >> thank you for that. Uh and then with regard to putting in the uh new driveway, I don't see erosion controls uh put in place for that.
>> So that would be merited. >> Yeah, I I don't actually think so in this case, Mary. And here's why. Um we are proposing an erosion control barrier right along the property line. Actually, we're going to move that up. Uh we're going to move that right at the toe of the slope. That was a carryover from when we had the pond further downhill.
So, but either way, um the you can see from the contours the flow of water is this way like this. >> So, when we build this and and then again this this I'm really having a hard time here with my colors, but this whole
area is burm and then this area of course is low. So all of this construction will flow this way into the pond and it will not have any opportunity to to pass over this burm and then down. So I think that the erosion control that we have um in this
case adequately protects protects us. >> Okay. And I and I I see your point with regard to the you know direct dam, but the rest of the the uh BBW that's not actually going to be part of the pond. I mean, I think we still have an
obligation to protect that as well. >> That's all that's all up. It's all upgraded. That's all that's all this is all higher in elevation, >> but not higher in elevation from the um from the driveway. I mean, it looks like the area construction for the driveway also.
>> I I I recant. You're you're correct, Mary. I think you're right. We you owe some erosion control here. >> Okay. Okay. >> You're absolutely right about that. Okay. Um, yeah, it's it's an interesting it's an interesting project, but I mean
certainly in these days where we have, you know, class one, class two, and even sometimes class three droughts very routinely, you can understand why, you know, one of our uh, you know, farmers is going to need to have some irrigation
uh, to keep his crops going. and and certainly all of us in the community and the surrounding community is fed as well, right? Um so it's not just benefiting u Mr. Violet but uh all of his clientele as well. So I can certainly understand that. What's the
depth of this projected to be? Um >> we are looking at about uh 15t. >> Okay. And uh is it just going to have a natural uh soil bottom or is there anything that's g Yeah. Okay.
>> Just natural. Yep. We um again we're it's a pond that's uh that that needs groundwater infiltrate that that will be a groundwater infiltrate fed by groundwater. Right. So >> there's no liner or anything like that that would be put in. we would just be
uh you know um no special treatment to to the bottoms to the bottom of the pond. >> I was looking back through the historical imagery and it and it looks like some portion of that the portion of it closest to the driveway has historically
been some some type of either natural or man-made kind of uh pond that maybe just has filled in over time or maybe >> dried up. I I recalled when the uh at least I thought I recalled when we uh
permitted that um driveway that's on the sort of toward the bottom of your drawing as it's oriented now that there was some standing water over there, but >> it's been pretty dry since then. >> We don't think there's going to be an issue with with with the volume of water. Um
>> yeah, >> you know that the um there is you can see it on this uh on this plan here, but there's a there's an existing pond here that I think was a similar >> I think if I'm not exactly sure the history of that, but I would imagine
that was probably dug into a similar manner >> um way back when, but we may get a history lesson on that. Uh so I we you know we think that there's um that there's plenty of uh there's plenty of hydraology here and again um you know these ponds they intercept the
groundwater table but they don't alter it right so the important thing is that um when we're done um that the hydraology of the wetland downgrading of the pond will remain the same. So, we're
we're not we're not um you know, we're not looking to do anything that will uh will, you know, negatively impact um negatively impact things as we go downstream. >> Okay. Uh are there other questions uh
comments by members of the commission? I am am not seeing uh Okay, Rich. >> Yeah, just quick, Greg, and you kind of touched on it a little bit. There are other ponds in close proximity to this proposed pond and you've gone through
and through hydraology made sure that this won't affect you know there's one pond there on Miss Whitney's property and there's another one right across the street on >> Stillman's >> and and opening this fissure here up's not going to affect the the levels or
the ability of those two ponds. >> Yeah. So no that's good. So this one actually is lower in elevation than even the p the bottom of the excavation that we're proposing. So this this pond here is roughly you can see right here it's roughly 365 at the at the around the rim
and that's the elevation of the deepest portion of the pond we're proposing. So you know we're actually above it hydraulically if you will. Um, you know, you could that that hydraulic gradient if you work backwards actually,
you know, it our all of the excavation we're doing is is is vertically above that. It's kind of hard to explain. Um, I haven't really looked at the Stillman's pond. I haven't really looked at the Stillman's pawn, but I suspect um
I think that the that Lancaster Rav um I think that we have a saddle condition there, Rich, though. I think that that flows off in the other direction. So, I think that there's a I'd have to get back to you on that, but I think that,
you know, more or less Lancaster Rav formulates a uh watershed, you know, hydraulic divide and that um that pond is being charged um I think that that would be fairly isolated um from this
from this one in terms of a uh groundwater table issue. Uh but I'd have to get back to you a little bit on that. >> Okay. Yeah, it does. On the USGS, they do show it um flowing the other way, south, >> I think. Yeah,
>> they show an outflow. >> Yeah. Down towards on the other direction of Goodrich, I think. Correct. >> Yep. Exactly. >> Yeah. And then it goes I don't know where it goes but it probably goes around the bottom of Stillman's and and flows down to uh I would imagine um
>> one would take maybe towards uh well eventually towards Lake uh Shirley, right? >> Yeah. I don't know if it goes uh I think it goes down the bottom of the Stillmans if you were to kind of go where the where the barns are and go down over the
hill. I think you'd probably I think it flows that way and then there's there's some more ponds downgrading to that I think. So I think it goes I think it flows that way. >> And how much water do you think you'll be able to take out of this pond daily?
Have you done any um studies for that? >> Uh I think there I don't want to speak out of turn. USDA laid out all that stuff uh for Steve. Um >> so we can I don't want to speak out of turn. I'm sure I could find it, but I I can we can provide you with some more
information on that. >> Okay. And back to Mary's question on the the use of the property. When we went for the driveway, >> it was described as a driveway for a future residence. And I assumed it was
on this piece of property that they were going to put a future residence. So, aren't those two in conflict? Agricultural use and a residence? Well, we're we didn't close the door on the residence. So, what what what we I
thought what we said uh the the driveway was built and was proposed and was built primarily today for access for the farming uses and and that's because you take your life in your hands going out the existing uh
Steve's existing entrance directly onto Lancaster A if you can imagine where that is. Um it's it's a little uh it's a little um airy. >> Uh but in the me we wanted to be very clear uh that this lot that lot does
conform dimensionally to the requirements to be considered a residential housing lot. And if in the future that was intended to be done, um that driveway would would function as you know that the driveway that was proposed would function as the
residential driveway to the house. But at this time he is not prop there's no proposal that I know of uh to put a house on this property. >> Okay. And do you have to change the use or designate the use of the property for
agricultural purposes in order to get the exemption under the 310 CMR for the construction of the irrigation pond in the BBW? >> I'm not sure on that one, Rich. That's what to to Mary's qu that's the same
same answer that I gave to Mary. I I will um get back to you on that. >> Okay. Well, that's all I have, Madam Chair. Thank you, Greg. >> Thank you. Uh, do we have questions or comments from other members of the commission?
And not seeing any, uh, I will now open, uh, open the dialogue to members of the public. And, uh, for members of the public that, uh, wish to, uh, add, uh, add comments, uh, raise your hand. I will call on you. and uh if you would
please state your name and your address and I'll call on Miss Patricia Whitney. >> Hi, thank you, Madam Chair. Um I have a pond on my property and it's in what is now designated as a certified wildlife
refuge and I'm very concerned with the pond going in particularly because it's so low. I'm wondering if it's going to drain off my pond, which has been there for over 40 years, and I'm really concerned about that. I'm I I don't want
to lose it. >> Um, Miss Patricia, uh, if I could ask for, uh, the consultant Greg to address that concern of yours. >> Greg, if you would. >> Say again. I'm sorry. I couldn't quite
>> I'm gonna ask um Greg Roy who's professional engineer uh to address that. But I think he's done some analysis around your concern. >> Okay. Thank you. >> No, it's a excellent question and concern. Um, and I think when whenever
we lay whenever we do things like this, really whenever we do any kind of storm water, uh, or anything that relates to water, um, we're always concerned with upgradient issues, which isn't you, but
also downgradient issues. So whenever we're proposing something that modify or has the potential to modify um storm water flow, surface water flow, groundwater flow, anything like that, um it's it's our job to propose propose a
solution that at the property boundaries doesn't change things, right? Um so this is um this is one of those situations where um we're proposing a um a sol a pond here which is a groundwater fed
pond. it is upgradient to your pond. But we believe that there are based on the the u what we know and understand of the um groundwater characteristics in the area. Um, we believe that there is
enough uh tributary area, aquifer if you will, that's feeding both your pond but also the upgraded areas to this pond um to provide both with sufficient uh sufficient volume and that the construction of the pond on Mr. Violet's
property um will not adversely impact yours. Um perhaps we can provide a little bit more graphics that that that describes that a little bit better at the next meeting. But you know effectively we are upgrading of it and we always want to be
careful that we're not going to we're not going to take you know water out of here that will that will you know that will negatively impact downstream effects. But we believe based on the uh the hydraulic characteristics that we uh we observe um in this area that that
that will not be the case. And it's one of the reasons uh Mrs. Whby why we actually pull the pond a little bit further away from your from your uh from your lot line uh to provide a little bit more um a little bit more buffer there. One is just so that we're not working right up against your lot line, but also
um so that we have um more even more length of of flow um of undisturbed groundwater flow um on on that in that uh in that situation. So that is your concern was a concern that we, you know,
we had at the very beginning of this when we first started to lay it out. So, but I do appreciate uh I do appreciate it. >> Well, uh my pond um is being fed by three streams um coming through. Uh
they're underground, but there are three springs coming into my pond. And I really I mean I cleared a path for the wildlife to be able to come to my pond and be able to use it. And I just don't
want to I I want to be sure that there will be no um disturbance of my pond. Can you assure me of that? >> Yeah. I mean, we're we're not proposing any change to wildlife passage or um
really the biggest concern that that I could that I could think of and I can understand your concern would be uh relative to digging excavating a pond and pumping out of it uh changing the hydraulic characteristics of your pond. And I all I can all I can say is
groundwater um hydrarology is not an exact science. uh we don't have x-ray vision. Uh but I can tell you that um that was an early input into our design process. It's always a concern with my office and
people like me and it's always a concern with the USDA um and they were they were an early participant in this uh in this process. So, we've laid things out so that that would not so that we would not adversely um you know harm the hydraulic
characteristics of your pond and certainly not uh not any uh not any modifications or anything of of wildlife passage and the like. If anything, we think we we'd enhance it because we're providing um we're providing another uh
you know, pond surface in the area. Um so we'd have, you know, more opportunity for waterfall and this this kind of thing. So um you know, just different types of uh a more diverse habitat population than you'd have w with just having a boarding vegetative wetland in
the area. So um >> thank you. >> I hope that helps. Yeah. >> Thank you, Greg. Uh, Patricia, do you have other other comments that you wanted to make at this time? >> Uh, no. I I just wanted to say that the yellow line that you have drawn here,
um, up and over to Steve's, uh, top of his field here. Um, I can't point. But anyway, um, that is my property and I own up to almost the top of the hill in the back where Steve's uh, farmland is. So, You know that
that's my main concern is, you know, if if it if it draws out my pond, what do I do about it? That's the other question. >> Yeah. Understood. >> What What would be the recourse if the
pond is adversely affected? >> Um, it's a good question. >> Yeah. I' do take steps to not have it be >> it would be a civil dispute between a butters. >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that really the
concom would have jurisdiction in that case. >> I don't think so. uh you know um by the letter of the law the state statute I think and I'm talking a little bit out of turn here but I think actually the board of health believe it
or not is sort of the um the the the board that's designated as as as um the board that deals with these type of issues uh storm water flow and and this kind of thing. um in practice it's
not really um done that way but all I'm all I only response to that is that we take steps and precautions during the the planning and design of these things so that that doesn't happen um you know um but I can understand your
concern >> yes because once it's done and it does drain out I'm stuck with a marsh >> no I understand >> and that that's my main concern. >> Yeah, I I think that's a valid concern.
Um but um Greg is a professional engineer that is uh certified, right? So, and he's done extensive analysis in this regard that's based on science and practice. Uh so there's a lot that goes into that that should give
us some confidence as well. >> I like to think so, but I can understand how you'd be skeptical, Mrs. Whitney, but I uh I that that's the best way I can answer the question. >> Yeah, because my my pawn was put in um by the same man that did the uh the pond
in um um Oh my gosh, I'm losing it here. Um the the Bear Hill Pond in um little >> in Harvard. Yes, he's the >> Very good. Um, yes, Bear Hill Pond in Harvard is is
the same man that did that pond that did my pond. So, it was not just a guy with a plow. It was >> Well, very Yeah, very clearly because it's in good shape even with the drought. So, yeah. >> Um, but I do have to move along because
I do have to get some more um topics and hearings this evening. But thank you for your comments. Madam Chair, >> I I have a list, Madam Chair, uh that I've written down, so you don't have to belver the point. Um we'll be >> Thank you very much, Greg.
>> We'll we'll we'll be uh back to you in a couple weeks um if if you can accommodate us. Uh we would like to keep things moving along um because we do lose windows for these type of construction projects >> um as we get further into the fall. So, we'd like to uh we'd like to keep things
moving here if we can. And so we'll respond to the com to the questions and comments that we heard tonight. >> And do you want to be continued to the 19th or to September 2nd or >> We'd like we'd like the 19th, Madam Chair. >> Okay. So I'm looking for a uh motion to
continue this hearing to August 19th. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Okay. Thank you, Teddy and uh Mike. So uh roll call vote. Uh, Rich Bers, >> hi >> Mike Larouche.
>> Hi, >> Teddy Ducet. >> Hi, >> Andrea Bernap. >> Hi. >> And I for myself. >> Okay. >> Thanks. Thanks, everybody. >> Thank you, Greg. >> Thank you, Patricia. >> Thank you. >> Okay, moving along. Uh, pursuant to Mass
General Law, Chapter 131, section 40 is amended in the town of Lunenberg wetlands protection and municipal bylaws. A notice of intent by Unatil for the construction of a new substation and replacement of utility poles 934 Mass A. Uh and do we have uh the applicant andor
their representative here with us tonight? Oh, uh Herurland, you haven't heard from them? I haven't, but let me just verify that I didn't receive anything. Um, typically they do email me very short notice. Just
bear with me one moment. Nothing from them. The last email we have is from the 15th where they asked to be continued to the next available meeting. Um, >> okay. I think we were waiting on some uh
clarifications from them as well. As I recall, >> they were trying to put together answers to DP comments. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I think let's um continue them uh if the uh commission so so moves uh
to the 19th and maybe you could contact them and let them know that uh if they're not able to support the process that we would have to consider uh moving this to a vote which might not be in their favor. >> We'll do.
>> Thank you. Uh, do we have a uh do we have a motion by the commission to continue this hearing to August 19th? >> So move second. >> Okay, I think I heard uh Rich as a primary mover. Mike Mike as a primary
mover and Teddy as a second. Uh, so roll call vote. Rich Bers >> I. >> Mike LaRouche >> I. >> Teddy Ducet >> I. Andrew Bernett >> I >> and I for myself.
Thank you. Moving along. Pursuant to Mass General Law Chapter 131 section 40 is amended in the town of Lunberg wetlands protection and municipal bylaws a notice of intent by John Construction LLC for the construction of a single family home with a wetland crossing at
503 West Towns and Road. And do we have that uh applicant andor their representative here with us tonight? >> Hello. Hi. Um, >> hi. >> I'm trying to I am the representative. I'm Zach from New England Environmental Design. I'm just trying to get my
>> camera to >> Well, unfortunately, I I emailed myself the plan uh in a panic so I could share it with you, but it hasn't come through yet. Um, do you have does anybody happen to have the plan possible to share? And I think you said 503. Did you mean 507?
Right. >> 507 is accurate. >> There we go. Yes. So anyway, it's a a single family a single family home that we talked about uh at the last meeting. >> Before you get started though, let's see
if somebody has the ability to share uh this drawing if you do not have uh that ability. We have uh Erlin, are you able to share that or no? Because the same problem as before. Madam chair, the last attachment
I have for this is I'm sorry, wrong account. That's why bear with me. >> Okay, thank you. I apologize for not having that, >> but um yes.
>> Okay. So, yeah. So, reorient us with this. >> Yeah. So, we talked about this last time. Um it's a single family h home on a a large lot. It requires a crossing right at the front by the street over in the front left. Your arrow is right on it right there. So at the last meeting
we spoke about it in general and I addressed uh the previous meeting's concerns and uh we were left with uh we wanted a planting list for you guys for what what's going along the 30foot no
touch zone. So on this new plan up up a little higher on the plan I've got a table with a plant list and specs that lists out the size and quantity. Um, I didn't specify what order they may go in along the 30-foot buffer. I found that
to be a little irrelevant. I figure the um homeowner could maybe do that at their discretion. Uh, I've got a selection of shrubs I chose over trees so that they remain short in the long term. uh easier maintenance and they
also I tried to select ones with uh wildlife and wildlife value and uh ease of maintenance uh value to uh the homeowner aesthetics uh berries or something you know
so so there's that and then the major the mo the more important thing we discussed was uh meeting stream crossing standards and so I have updated the crossing. We no longer have culverts proposed and we've got an open bottom
box culbert that uh we actually managed to we've got it spanned across so that it actually won't be dug into. We won't be disturbing any wetlands per se directly to set the footing that the box culbert will go on. If you if you see
that detail there, it we've got it just outside the actual uh extents of the of the wetland there. And it meets all criteria uh for the general standards of the stream crossing. I've
got a little table there to the bottom right that sort of lays out the uh this the general standards there on the on the left that are the minimum standards and then how we have met or exceeded them on the right.
Um, so the openness is is really I think the most most important factor and we have that it's a little hard to read but the minimum is I believe 83 ft and we we ended up with we've got 0 91 so we are
exceeding we are exceeding the openness uh minimum standard and we are meeting or or exceeding everything else. the substrate of the stream below won't be uh disturbed the way we are proposing
work now uh the span over the over the river like I said is isn't disturbing the wetland itself so uh there will be no wetland filling should be no need for uh wetland
replication and the span will allow the bank along the stream both sides to remain and intact and uh you know available for whatever whatever minor wildlife uh turtles, amphibians, uh
salamanders, whatever need need to traverse that stretch right there. They'll have plenty of natural access. >> Excellent. And um I I believe that is uh
>> so Zach um >> yes >> and I Rich is sharing this uh for us. Um right uh in the center of the screen my screen I see a 24 in HDP pipe. Where does that go? >> Oh yes. So that's so that is the uh
temporary crossing that will be put in place uh to allow to allow the stream to uh continue normal flow while this uh >> while this construction's happening >> while the construction's occurring.
Yeah. >> Okay. And do we have uh Rich, you were asking earlier about a construction um schedule? Do you have a construction schedule here? Has that been brought up before?
>> Uh a con like a construction sequence. Yeah, I had a >> a general one. I believe it was up the page a little bit. Uh right there to the right of the plant spec construction sequence. Yeah. >> Okay. And >> I I believe I had that on I believe I
had it on the last iteration. Okay. Do we have questions or comments from members of the commission? And I don't see any hands being raised. We have questions or comments from members of the public.
I don't recall were there were there D comments on this? Uh >> uh there were I don't have them right in front of me, but as I recall they were most they I think they were only concerned with the stream crossing. Um,
you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I I believe they were the ones that uh brought up needing to that that our culvert proposal wasn't sufficient and so we deeper and and and now we're meeting the stream standards or exceeding parts of them.
>> That's correct. Yeah, I did find my tab where we have the D uh comments. >> Yeah, madam madam chair >> the Yes. Yes, Rich. Sorry about I just can't raise my hand while I was sharing. Um, as far as the construction schedule,
there were a couple comments there about the plantings and the plantings being directed by the homeowner. And I just want to make sure that all of the stabilization and the final plantings are all in place at the time that the
cover that the um the span is installed. >> Okay. >> So, I just I just don't want to see the span installed. We put the driveway in, then we do everything, and then we come back to do the final grading and stabilization and planting at the end of
the project. It all needs to be done when you put the span in place concurrently. Okay. >> Yep. >> And uh and yeah, I I did not uh I did not mean to imply I don't believe the homeowners will be uh installing the
plantings themselves un unless that's allowed. But uh I I just meant that you know I want a blueberry bush there and I want the dogwood there and I want that type of thing cuz I I don't think the order of the species much matters. >> No, because they're all pretty much the
same sized plantings and they're all deciduous plantings. None of them are tree form. So >> Yep. Yep. >> Get the get them all in place. But yeah, have all of the the stabilization and the final plantings all done at the same time as the um span is installed.
>> Okay. And I can I can I can uh revise the construction sequence there to reflect that. Um or or unless you were intending to write that into the order. I'm not I'm not sure how you >> We certainly can. Yep.
>> I think it'd be most expedient um to write that into the order uh because then >> I would love and appreciate that. >> Yeah. maybe maybe proceed with uh issuance of the um or at least taking
the vote uh on the proposal. And Rich, would you say again uh for um purposes of us making a motion uh if the commission is so inclined uh what what you would want to be detailed in that uh
order? all the final plantings and stabilization be done at the time that the span is installed. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. And I would imagine it would where it is wetland work would still need a um
supervision for two year two growing seasons to ensure that all the plantings um are in place at the end of the two years. >> Oh, on the 30 foot buffer. Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. two brewing seasons. Yes,
good call out, Rich. >> Yep. >> So, I am looking I think if I don't see other and I don't uh see other uh questions or comments, I think I'm looking for a motion uh to include those
two uh specific uh conditions that Rich detailed. >> So, moved. Second. Thank you, Teddy. Thank you, Mike. >> Okay, roll call vote. Rich Bur >> I,
>> Mike Larouche, >> I. >> Teddy Ducet, >> I. >> Andrew Bernett, >> hi. >> And I for myself. Thank you, Zach. >> Thank you all. Thank you very much. >> And uh have a very nice night. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. Okay. Pursuant to Mass General Law, chapter 131, section 40 is amended in the town of Lunberg wetlands protection and municipal bylaws. Notice of intent by the reservoir. Oh no, we've already done that. We will move on. A notice of intent by Benjamin
Builders minor site work for driveway entrance and raid garden at 91 Round Road PKA 10 Armen Road. Do we have the applicant and their uh representative here with us tonight? Madam Chair, Greg Roy with Dillison Roy. I'm representing
the applicant. I don't think we have anybody representing the applicant uh directly tonight. So, >> okay. >> Um may I share my screen? >> Yes, please. >> All right.
Bear with me. >> All right. How's that? >> Good. >> Good. Yeah. >> All right. So, I'll be brief here. Um, we opened this meeting, I think two weeks ago or three weeks ago. Um,
and at the time did not have uh any a DP file number. Um, but as I was corrected earlier in the meeting, uh, we did get that hot off the press this afternoon. Uh, and there were no comments issued um, by D for this one. Um, just to put
you into con and I and to my I didn't present this. Ryan Proctor from my office was here. uh three weeks two or three weeks ago, but he reports that your commission did not have any questions um relative to this either uh at that time. So, this one is the last
remaining lot that we um as part of a larger project um and we've permitted um the lots on either side of this uh with your commission. you've already issued order or orders of conditions uh
for I think lots 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 and for whatever reason this one was um was last uh to get to you. Um so we had the benefit here of working in all of the comments. I think it's one of the reasons why we didn't have any D
comments on this one. Um we worked in all of the previous uh comments um all of the the previous plan tweaks. I should say and and additional information from both your commission but also the DP in when we prepared this
plan. Um but generally speaking, same treatment as before. We have a a stone uh trench that comes down the edge the edge of the drive and it it all flows into a uh a rain garden area here before uh before it exits the site. Um there's
no work proposed within the 30oot um zone just for your reference. The wetland area is across the street down here. The 30foot zone is right in this area here, which is essentially right down the middle of the pavement starts to come over there. Uh 50 ft is here
like this. So we have a little bit of work in the 50 uh for the actual driveway, but all the most of the grading and the rain garden is all upgrading of that. um erosion control barriers in in are proposed any anywhere works proposed in
the buffer zone and I think that's it. >> Very good. Thank you, Greg. >> I don't have any questions. Uh do other members of the commission have any questions or comments? I'm not seeing any hands raised. Oh,
Teddy Det, you have your right hand raised. >> Yeah, thank you. Um, I was just wondering where this is relative to the rest of the lots. Um, like if I were to zoom out, is this closer to the um
like the other homes next to the uh the lake or is it on the other side where the >> mail? Great point, Teddy. That's one of the things I have been asking Ryan to ensure we had uploaded was kind of an
overall subdivision. >> I think these things I'm going to stop sharing and I'm going to open up a plan that'll help you. Hold on one second. >> That would be great. >> Give me uh probably 60 seconds here. Hold on one second.
I'm not sure that this is the actual latest and greatest plan, but I think it'll communicate what we needed to. Hold on one second. Let me share again. So again, this project is part of a larger project. There's 25 lots um 24 of
which well actually 23 of which are being proposed currently for uh for for construction. Um this plan right here is what is before the planning board. So in addition to needing orders of conditions from from on some lots from your commission, we also need a storm water
permit on all of the lots from the planning board. So this this plan is before them, but it shows the overall site. Um and the lot in question here, Teddy, is um is this one right here.
Greg, has this been I you know I know technically it's not required, but has it been given to the commission? I've asked for it a couple of times. Has it been uploaded uh to >> Well, I don't know if if it hasn't. We certainly can. I I apologize if it hasn't and you've asked for it. I I
didn't I didn't know that if that's the case. >> It just helps us understand, you know, particularly where these subdivisions don't show up on the tax parcels yet, right? Where >> y >> where we're actually talking about in context. I I will say it is on the open gov. You can you should be able to
search the public documents on the planning board page, but we can certainly upload it to these to this or to this actual application. >> Okay. Hurlin actually said that she has received that. So, >> okay. All right. >> So, I just haven't caught up with uh where Hurlin was. So,
>> I I was going to make some heads roll if we didn't give you something you asked for. So, I >> Yeah. Hurlin intervened on behalf of your staff. So, >> so again, you issued orders for this, this, this, uh, these two didn't require
it. Uh, this one, this one, and you did an RDA 3 weeks ago for that one. >> Okay. >> So, they're all done. It's just if for whatever reason, we This one didn't get filed with the lot of of We probably should have filed it at the same time, but just didn't happen. So,
>> Very good, Teddy. That addresses your question. Yeah. >> Yeah. Thank you. The reason I asked is because I got an email from somebody in town about um this going ahead of into uh in front of the planning board or something and people were concerned
about the uh runoff going towards people's properties. Um, and a lot of the runoff is managed by these rain gardens, which they were unsure about how they were going to be maintained, unless there was some sort of HOA
that kept them uh in place. Um, and I guess another question after that, but go ahead, Greg. Um, yeah. So, the planning board, as I said, is reviewing, we have to do per per the town of Lunberg stormwater
bylaw, we have to we have to get a storm water permit for every single lot here. Um so we filed um we file we have done all those filings uh with the planning board and they're they're pending um
final review essentially but they to mit so the the very reason why we're at the planning board is for is to document that we are in compliance with Massachusetts stormwater management policy for storm water um which includes compliance with all 10 standards of the
storm water uh storm water policy Um, I'm not going to bore you with all of those uh all of those standards, but they they require us to document that we're mitigating runoff on site uh and not increasing off-site runoff. We have to meet recharge standards. We have to
have an operation and maintenance plan on again on every single better management practice BMP that we're proposing. So that would include the rain gardens, the uh the infiltration um trenches, anything like that. Um that's
all been provided um and uh and is being reviewed uh and the legal arrangements for that uh for all of that is being reviewed by the planning board. Uh that is a condition of that process. So >> okay. >> So I understand the concern but the the
the the very reason why um why the town has the storm water management bylaw is is because of that global concern in town. So just to assure everybody that's the reason why uh those are required and uh this project is not exempt.
>> Okay. Thank you Greg. And I do have a follow-up question. It's only like tangentally related. Um, I've just been looking into like the open space residential design where um like contractors will like clump homes together um into a smaller space and
allocate um you usually like a large portion of space to being like open space for wildlife or a community area. I was just curious if like what when you are doing large projects like that do you consider
um that as a possibility or is it not touched upon? >> We we do um in this case this is a pretty unique piece of property because there's a lot of frontage a lot of existing frontage on legal on legal uh legally accessible roadways and and
viable roadways. Um, a lot of times, Teddy, those those type of open space developments, um, are really desirable when you're looking at doing an a an actual subdivision where we're proposing a new road. Um, and you can cluster those
around a around a new road that's required to generate the frontage uh for those for those new lots. In this case, um, the the frontage exists to do that. So um you have you have a pretty rare
situation where you have a you know a 25 lot um project that is being proposed by approval not required plan which means you don't have to use the subdivision control process uh to create the frontage required. So it's a little bit
unique. Um a lot of 25 lot um residential housing projects you would see um you would see open space type uh developments, but in this case um just because of the way the lot is and the existing roads and things um it just
didn't work out that way. >> Okay. Thank you, Greg. >> Thank you, Teddy. Any other questions or comments by members of the commission? seeing hands raised. Uh Earl, any uh comments or recommendations
that you wanted to make on this uh project? >> Uh none. >> So I think I'm looking for a motion to approve. >> So move. Thank you, Mike. >> Second.
>> Thank you, Rich. Roll call vote. Rich Bers, >> I. >> Mike Larouche, >> I. >> Teddy Ducet, >> I. >> Andrea Bernett, >> I. >> I for myself. Thank you, Greg.
>> Thank you, everybody. >> Very good. Moving along. Pursuit of Mass General Law, chapter 131, section 40 is amended in the town of Lunberg wetlands protection and municipal bylaws, a notice of intent by Carlos Sylviera for repair and upgrade of a failed septic
system at 15 White Street. And do we have uh Carlos andor his uh representative here with us tonight? Uh hi, I'm Luke Roddy. I'm the soil evaluator who did the perk test and my company's going to be doing the septic
install. the sanitarian that designed the system wasn't available tonight. So, I'm sitting in I believe Carlos is on the call as well. >> Okay, very good. Uh Luke, do you want to get us uh
acquainted uh on this project? Um did you have actions that you had taken from the commission uh from the previous hearing? >> Uh no, hang on a second. I was going to try and share the but um no the last meeting we just went over the general
outline. Um it's a replacement septic system at an existing house. Current system is failed and is much closer to the wetlands. This system is basically putting it in the furthest possible spot from the
wetlands. Uh there's not a lot of space to work with on the site. The septic tank is going to be about 65 ft from the wetlands. The leech field is 101 ft at the closest point. Um, and there is silt
fence shown at about 50 ft from the wetlands and that would be the the limit of work. >> Okay, very good. >> Um, >> I believe we do have a D number as well and and they didn't have any comments. >> Yeah.
was yeah I well I thought I saw a comment uh the applicant should confirm the partial number in section 1A of the NOI form >> okay I didn't I'm just going off the information I was given by the
sanitarian he said he didn't think there there weren't any comments so I didn't review it myself so >> Eland has her hand raised you may have a clarification for us. >> Yeah, the I'm sorry, Madam Chair. The applicant came in and asked about that. He um I think he hyperimposed the
numbers for the map lat parcel area. So, I helped him correct it and retrieve the correct numbers and he sent that over to D. Okay, that's a great answer. Thank you. Okay, are there any other questions for members of the commission?
questions andor comments. Any questions or comments from members of the public? I'm seeing none. Uh so I think I'm looking for a uh motion to approve. >> So moved.
>> Think that was Mike. >> Yep. >> All right. Uh and a second. >> Second, Rich. >> Thank you, Rich. Okay. Roll call vote. Rich Bur. >> Hi. >> Michael Larouche. >> I >> Teddy Det.
>> I >> Andrea Bernap. >> Hi. >> I for myself. >> Thank you, Luke. >> All right. Thank you. Have a good night. >> Right. Okay. Moving along to other business. I do not
see that we have administrators determinations uh amended orders of conditions or extension requests. I do see a certificate of compliance uh for 23 Tilton AB. Do you want to uh give us an overview of
that? Uh yes, just bear with me. I'm managing multiple screens on this little tiny Oh, I don't have to imagine it. >> Uh, so this was a septic replacement. Um, an order of conditions was issued by
the commission uh, I believe in 2025. I actually did the pre-construction sidewalk for this um, in late fall >> and um, the construction finished. I drove by, took some um I didn't take pictures because I went out on a day
that it was raining very bad and I think my phone um might be damaged from that. But um >> yeah, it it said water was getting in. But >> uh anyhow, the disturbed areas appear to be permanently stabilized and no
evidence of erosion, sedimentation or other resource area impacts was observed at the time of the inspection. I would advise the commission to move forward with issuing a full certificate of compliance for this request. >> Okay. Very good. Uh any questions or
comments uh from the commission on this? >> If not, I'm looking for a uh motion to approve. >> So move Mike. >> Thank you, Mike. >> Second, Rich. >> Thank you, Rich. Roll call vote. Rich Bur. Hi
>> Mike Larouche. >> I >> did you set >> I >> Andrea Bernett >> I >> and I for myself. >> Uh okay. Moving along to enforcements. Um
all right. Do we have any updates on 1168 uh mass ad? Uh yes. So we received an email from DP which um so just a little context for
this. Um we issued an enforcement order to this property and property owner. Um they called me up and complied and then um I within the 5 days that we requested a response by they have 30 days to comply.
I spoke to the engineer which was u Mccardi engineering and we discussed what the enforcement order required and they were going to have people out there. I think they're actively having someone work on some delineations. Um we agreed that the 30-day timeline was good. They were going to try to come
I think I believe towards the end of the completion of that to just show us what they were doing. And then we received an email from D saying that um they were issuing a hearing date for a failure to respond. So I
not I'm not really sure if that's in conjunction with what we ordered, but they're aware that their engineer replied to us. So then I was in contact again with their engineer who was unsure also what was happening. And I asked them if D had some requirements um from
them at their last sitewalk that they had together. They believed they had complied. I told them, you know, D that's out of our jurisdiction. They're above us. So, um they're going to attend the meeting and then he will let me know what happens there. Um as far as it
concerns us, they are fully compliant. They responded to us. They are working on something. they have um a wetland scientist out there as we speak. So um I think the two things are separate, but I will wait to hear back from uh what
happens at this meeting and it's scheduled the hearing is scheduled on for August 13th um at 11:00 a.m. in Worcester. >> Okay. Thank you. Questions or comments from members of the commission? Okay.
Uh, thank you Harland for that update. Okay, moving along to next on our agenda is new business updates. Okay, we got an email about Calgary Trail overgrowth and the bridge. What's going on with
that, Erlin? If you would, >> Laura. So, we received an email from I believe her name is Kim uh Commissioner Ducet. You know who she is, right? Um
I believe Kim is >> Oh, Kim Duffy. >> Yes. From Kim Duffy. >> Yes. >> Thank you for that. um in regards to hiking through Cadri and attempted to pass a red trail marked below along Memphis Brook. Starting at
the purple arrow intersection with Green Tale and headed southeast. Neither of us there could identify where the trail went due to significant overgrowth and eventually just needed to try to head southwest back to Green Trail. We tried to find trail markers on the trees and couldn't find them. I'm not sure if I
mentioned this, but the green section that passes through the brook seems to not have a bridge or any other way to pass other than walking through the water. So, I would probably recommend removing the green section from the trail map or rebuilding the pass. Um, I
unfortunately have not had a chance to go out there and verify this myself, but I do believe um she may be right. I spoke to um a prior commissioner Bob Peace who came out and said that um
there is some verbiage I believe either in the land use or um it's not it's definitely not in our bylaw where
clearing can happen by constituents on trails but I didn't feel comfortable uh letting this person know that they could just go out there and kind of whack away at things without first discussing it with the commission. I
think putting a plan in place might be a our best course of action, even if it's recruiting some volunteers to go out there one day and clear the area. Somebody who's more wellversed with what the trails should look like, even if
that includes Mr. Peace himself, >> right? Um, >> yeah, I I'm pretty familiar with the uh trails down in that area. I'm actually kind of surprised that we're missing markers. We had uh we had some uh Boy Scouts down in that area uh
couple years ago. I actually am a little worried somebody's been down there um and pulled some markers down. Uh, I had actually been down in that area probably a couple of years ago, too, right before the Boy Scouts came through, so that I was really clear on
what they were what they were doing. Um, I think what I'll do is try to get down either get down there or get either Bob andor Chris St. Germaine is also, you know, a very active uh trail stewart for former member of the commission uh down
there to look at that area and uh maybe come back with um some proposals. Uh and I usually have in the fall, school hasn't started yet, but I usually do have some NHS students also that
reach out uh in the fall looking for volunteer hours. So, we may be able to uh get that covered in in that regard. And I I really appreciate uh Kim Duffy reaching out to us and letting us know about this problem so we can get it addressed.
And there has been a bridge down in two bridges, right? So there's a big bridge on the southeast side uh that uh is really wide uh like 10 10 ft wide that is part of snowmobile trail system. Um
and then on the northwest section there's another bridge that's not part of the snowmobile trail system. Uh but uh it's a little hinky. But uh we did have um Josie Gilchrist and her husband and
uh they were down there working on that bridge with a gosh I remember it was a charity event and uh it brought in a lot of volunteers and they led that effort and that was not this past spring but the spring before
uh working on uh you know doing doing some very heavy duty maintenance on that bridge. is replacing uh not the stringers but the decking uh and some railing sections and whatnot. So I might reach out to them as well.
So let me take that action. Um >> okay. >> Yeah. Are there questions or comments from members of the commission uh to to Hurland uh or to me in general about this? I not seeing any hands raised. I keep covering up my hand raising panel
with my agenda which is not helpful. Alrighty. Um All right. Library program on conservation property. Who sponsored that to our agenda?
>> Uh the library. >> Oh, okay. Um, so I received an email from a librarian stating that the library would like um a my um the program would be a mycologist from Boston leading a two-hour mushroom walk
through the property covering the basics of mushroom habits, ID, and ecology and helping prepare participants for safe, exciting forges of their own. Um, according to the librarian, my goal would be to book it for late morning or
afternoon during the week sometime in early October. The professional I would be looking at has led hundreds of walks like this before through other conservation lands in Massachusetts and New Hampshire and would be respectful of the property. The walk is booked for
Friday, October 2nd from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. with Jonathan Crowns. crowns. >> Oh jeez. >> Yeah, he's very familiar with the property and leads mushroom walks several times a week at various communities in New England.
Um, so they were, you know, running this by us as a courtesy and hoping that they are able to use um I I believe she said >> did he say which property? >> Yes, I believe she said is there a lane property?
>> There is. Yes, it's one on uh Hullman Street. >> Okay. has one of the best parking areas. >> Um, her name is Lydia and it would be most likely the lane property. Yes. And wanted to to check if we needed
permission first. Um, and my reply says it's open to the public, so no formal permission is generally required for members of the public to use the trails during normal public access hours. But we would appreciate, you know, her letting us
know that something was happening. >> Yeah, we do we do ask for notification for events. >> Okay. >> Um and particularly it's important uh to know if the
it's free or if um there's some kind of exchange of uh money that's happening associated with this. >> Okay. I can ask. >> Yeah. the town policy I believe is that if this is something that's
commercialized in that uh the participants are expected to provide some type of you know payment or fee or something to either the organizer or the guide that the town requires um some type of insurance
correctly >> typically um programs offered by the public library um are at no cost. Um as an average library that I would expect that too. We
probably just need to have it confirmed in writing, >> right? Yeah. Um I think most likely what happens is this is grant funded. Typically either the cultural council or DCR or anybody within um this whose scope is to fund projects
for a public engagement will issue a grant to the library and then the library can use the funds to then hire somebody to come in and give a free but I will in writing. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah, I do too. >> Yeah, I uh Mark had that down on my calendar.
I will verify this with her and let her know and if if there's no cost she they are free to use as you know we already know the time and date. So >> yeah um Mike you have your hand up and you've been waiting patiently. Yes, Madam Chair. Uh I've been on many
mushroom walks and something that's very important that all the instructors or um or leaders of those walks always tell us that um that you cannot take what they say for
face value whether something is edible or not edible. And I think I'm hoping that this instructor will do the same. Uh because if someone were to uh pick a mushroom that looks like it
could be edible and it is not, I don't want to be liable or the town liable for u an incident. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, you can certainly identify mushrooms and um but you certainly don't
want to encourage someone to gather a mushroom that may or may not be edible on our property in case it's not and someone gets harmed. So that that's my only u concern in allowing others to use
our town property for a great event as long as they realize uh don't uh you know the edibility of mushrooms should not be part of that class or that walk.
That's all. >> Thank you, Mike. >> Okay. Uh yeah, I share your concerns. Mushroom uh mushrooms are really complex and uh there are a lot of them out there with some uh deadly look alikes.
>> You know what they say, there are some old uh mushroom gatherers and bold mushroom gatherers, but there are no old bold mushroom gatherers. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> Exactly.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um, I think that uh, you know, actually I think I'm just going to ask for a motion to approve uh, this event. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Thank you, Mike. Thank you, Teddy. Uh,
roll call vote. Rich Bers, >> I. >> Mike Larouche, >> I. >> Teddy Ducet, >> I. >> Andrea Bernett, >> I. >> And I for myself. Thank you. Uh, moving along. Um,
keep having my window wrong size for the bottom of the page. Okay. Commission open discussion uh topics. One thing that I Okay, we have old business over here. Is there
anything that's been unknown for the last 48 hours that that needs to be brought up that's not on the agenda? Okay, I'm not seeing hands raised. Oh, yeah. Rich Burch. >> Yeah, actually it was back to the last um discussion. Harland, did you mention
that you did not have a copy of the land use policy? >> I didn't and I just received yours. Thank you so much. >> Okay. Yeah. And it is on the uh the town website too under conservation land information. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. >> The public is looking for it. Super.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That that was the only uh com Thank you. Okay. Uh, bylaw discussion draft changes for the fee schedule. Her. >> Hi. Yes. So, this is another
I'm not sure if we want to discuss this tonight. So, during our last meeting, there were a few commissioners that weren't present. Um I had mentioned that I had been in discussion with our town council in regards to our fee schedule
and um it is in the town charter in verbiage and then a schedule is in place and he said what he's done in the past for other departments I believe we're the last department who has not yet done this is he has taken out that verbiage
at town meeting and the the schedule and then um sort of reference the right to each uh board or commission as a whole. So basically we would be asking the select board to allow the conservation
commission to adopt a fee schedule that will be maintained by the commission. Um during our last meeting, some commissioners were not present and I thought it would be a better idea to have everyone present before uh the
commission took a vote on this as to move it forward to council so that we can put a bylaw request, a bylaw change request >> for our next town meeting. But >> what's the um what's the deadline for uh being able to raise a warrant for are we
going to have a special town meeting in the fall? Uh >> we are we are but we are asked not to bring these certain things up. >> Okay. So then it would have to be in the the May uh town meeting. >> Yes. Um I am asking if we could just for
like general sequence of things if we can do something in November and then implement it come January that would be perfect. Um the town manager did agree. So I have until midepptember
to have a vote from the commission to then have town council help me put together the package that I need to present for the warrant. >> Okay. And I think uh I think our uh chair our formal chair is is actually
out again at the next meeting. Um, but at the very least, I think now everybody has visibility to the proposal. Do anybody that's uh here tonight have any questions or concerns that they wanted to raise about this?
I happen to think it's a great idea. Okay. And I'm not seeing uh hands raised either on this. So, um Okay. I Yeah, I think I think it's a great idea. uh and and well overdue. So, I'm glad uh I'm glad you're here and helping
us drive forward on that, Harlon. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Old business conservation budget. Uh little scouts project. Uh and I understand uh last uh meeting uh this got brought up. Uh so we have an Eagle
Scout that's working on some ADA compliant uh kind of you know say it out loud accessibility uh types of improvements for the small town forest. He wants to put in uh and per his proposal uh he wants to build and put in
um a couple of u ADA uh picnic tables. So they have a long one end of the picnic table is actually got a long overhang so that um people with wheelchairs and scooters can more easily enjoy a picnic with their families. Um I
had told him that we do uh we do sometimes uh sponsor funding for this and we have recently sponsored uh funding for Eagle Scouts for uh kiosk um projects and whatnot. Uh Bob Peas went
and got the uh materials uh priced at Mackie Lumber and I think the actual cost was uh $548.
Uh but so I would propose that we uh consider funding this uh for a not to exceed $600 amount uh for this Eagle Scout to finish um well to to get that material and then build those um those
picnic tables. Any questions or comments about that proposal? I it would be funded I would propose that that be funded out of our timber rights fund. Yes, Herland. >> Uh, I just wanted to note that during our last meeting, we discussed the fact
that when Eagle Scouts were to present projects, they were also responsible for funding their project. And apparently the rules have changed. Now, um, they are the, um, I can't think of the word
because it's very late, but um, the recipient of the project is now responsible for funding. it it is no longer uh the responsibility of the scout. >> Oh, that's interesting. So, my history with the Eagle Spouts coming to the uh conservation commission is that it's
it's been sort of happened both ways. Sometimes we funded it, sometimes they've found independent funding and uh donations. Um so, it's interesting to know that the it's actually an Eagle Scout policy that's been driving that.
>> Yes, I was kind of shocked at that too. I thought it was always the responsibility of the Eagle Scout, but we had someone in the office when Mr. Peace came through with the quote and he informed us that it is now the responsibility of the recipient who is
receiving um whatever work is being done to actually fund or provide the materials needed. >> In a lot of ways that makes sense given uh the cost of materials these days, >> right? I think the last bridge project that the
uh I uh I had to just find the funding for the um for the screws and um timber locks and whatnot. Uh uh uh connective uh hardware was $600 alone. That was no
wood. That was just the uh timber locks and uh deck screws. Okay. So, uh, if there are no questions or comments, I'm looking for a proposal to or for a, uh, motion to approve not
to exceed $600, uh, from the timber rights on our Mackie PO for this Eagle Scout project. >> So, moved. >> Second, Mike. >> Thank you, Teddy. Thank you, Mike. Roll call vote. Rich Bers.
>> Hi, >> Mike Larouche. >> I >> Teddy Ducet. >> I >> Andrea Bernett. >> Hi. >> And I for myself. Um, okay. As a matter of mechanics though, Hurland, I think you had said that the PO
was uh we needed to raise a new PO to fund this. >> Yes. And that >> Yeah, that's that's being worked out. Um we have there has been some reorganization uh in the Ritter building and I have
somebody who is designated like AP work so accounts payable and she will be facilitating all of this. So >> okay >> uh we can disregard the the frantic um little bit of panic attack I had there. >> Okay. And and um
so then the existing PO and the amount there that was left on that that will be closed out. >> Yes. >> Those funds will be returned back to the timber rights fund is unused. >> Yes. >> Okay. And do we have any idea how long it might take her to turn around a PO?
>> Uh it's fairly quick. It's not. Um so we are an anomaly as to where uh these accounts are funded by conservation. So we don't really have an overhead when it comes to the approval of how the funds are used. So it's pretty quick.
>> Okay. Because I know the single stout is interested in getting this completed before school starts. >> Yes. Yep. And I will facilitate exploiting this. >> Okay. That would be awesome. Um the next uh the next item is uh
ledger ad advertisement. So, the Lunberg Ledger reached out to all of the town departments and had uh said they were trying to uh kind of uh see if there would be uh any appetite for a townwide
um mailing uh and and if so, you know, which departments would be interested in it. I reached back out to the ledger and asked, you know, like, okay, what would it cost? And Pam gave me a cost. So, I had asked about a quarter page ad. Uh,
again, you know, I think it think honestly I think we've been delinquent in trying to uh keep visible uh the uh protected areas for town that require uh wetlands permits. And so I I would like
to see um you know us do more and this is only one opportunity uh but us do more to keep u visibility to these regulations and the uh wetlands um that that our regulations protect uh in in the eye of the public. We do have a
number of people that come before us that just simply didn't know. Um and I know we're not going to eliminate that, but I do want to make it better. Uh it was $125 for a quarter page ad and um you know roughly double we can estimate
that it would double that for a halfpage ad. Uh what we have talked about in the past is that uh little pen drawing that we have on our on our website that uh is a diagram of the buffer zones and what act what
activities actually require a um require a uh permit um concom permit. I almost think a quarter page would be too small for uh somebody to actually make sense of the pen line drawing. Um
so might want to consider something broader. Right now I'm just socializing this because when I was asking went back to Pam and asked hey listen you know you haven't given me a um you know a cost estimate. I would like to get that so I can get it in front of our our
commission. She came back and said that she's had very little response back from the town. So, she's not really certain that she can pull off a townwide um mailing. Uh you know, the cost and the overhead for her is is pretty pretty
expensive. Uh so, you know, that I don't think we need to vote on this tonight, but I did want to socialize it as an opportunity um and have you guys think about it. Uh you know, comment on it if you want to. uh it
might be more effective for us to put something, you know, at one point in time we talked about uh getting that diagram uh added as a uh you know, as as a flyer in uh you know, once a year in in like the tax mailings or something,
the quarterly tax mailings, which then at least we know it goes to everybody that's a property owner. Thoughts, comments, concerns? Does anybody think anybody else think that we could do a better job in keeping these regulations visible in the public
eye? There an opportunity for improvement there. >> Uh yes. So in the previous municipality that I worked for, we actually the different uh type of municipality of
course, but um there was a like new homeowners um like this folder that was given to people who were newcomers to the city and inside there
had like do you live near wetlands? Do you want to like fix your house up? If you have wetlands, this is what's jurisdictional to us. Here's the contact number for the agent. Need someone want to take a tree down? Call me. Um, want
to expand your deck? Give me a call. So, it was very informal, but yeah, like beneficial. >> That's a great idea. >> Um, it was it was awesome. And it went on to be a page on the city web page.
So, if you went to the city web page, it it had like a little tab that says, "Are you a homeowner?" And then it had like local restaurants, localarmacies, and then it had like municipal agencies that can help you. And I thought that was a
great idea. >> Yeah, I think that's a great idea. We'll have to talk about that some more. I think aside from having the trifold that might not be so eye-catching to someone, I think
I think I could probably put something together um verbiage wise like do you own a is you know do you own own a home near a wetland? Do you know what a wetland is? Do you have questions? like having people contact us as a point of
reference is I think even more important than having them see the trifold. I do get a lot of inquiries and calls and messages now that I think people know that there's someone in the office, but a lot of people buy property and have no idea that there's wetlands surrounding them and that
>> Exactly. Yeah. >> that it doesn't have to be a lake, a river, a tributary or a brook. Um, there's isolated wetlands and there's vegetation that's indicative of wetlands that you may not know you have. Um, we get a lot of people with violations who come forth and say, "I have no idea this
was a wetland." So, I think getting to them first and then explaining the trifold might be a good idea. So, I'm not sure if if this is something that the ledger will move forward move forward. If we could do something where
we can say, "Hey, we're here. Call us if you have questions and then offer the trifold. >> I Yeah, I I the ledger will do I think be willing to do whatever we pay him, you know, to do and doing something like that could certainly fit into a quarter
page ad kind of um perspective. Uh Rich, you had your hand up. I didn't call on you fast enough. >> No, I was just going to say that as another idea, too. We had put it in the um the tax bills, the trifold,
so it went out to all property owners in Lunenburgg. >> Yeah, I think I think that's a good idea. And honestly, I don't think we actually have to maybe do one or the other or something. I mean, we could do a hybrid approach. Anything we do at this point would be better than our track record over the past, you know,
four years that I know of for certain that I've been on the commission. >> Yeah. I I do like I do like the idea of the kind of the you know three to five kind of leading questions. Call us and ask right when they call and engage then give them the trifold with an actual
human narrative. That's a I think that's an excellent idea. But I am worried that we only have one hurlin and we might uh overt tax those resources. >> I am an excellent multitasker. Thank goodness. Okay,
moving along. Uh, Hollis residents, any updates there, Mike? Uh, >> or anyone? >> Yes. I just wanted to say that back in May the 6, we had approved roofing materials for the shed uh on Hollis Road
to be re-roofed by Pollinator Habitat volunteers. And I had calculated exactly that we needed 100 square ft, not realizing that you double up on the first course of a
roof. So it ended up we were six um shingles shy of completing our roof. So I just wanted to see if we could um approve the purchase of an additional
bundle of shingles. Uh, I realize we're probably going to have a little extra, but you can't purchase six shingles from a lumber yard. So, >> what do they cost? >> I have no idea.
You know, they're probably $60 uh for a bundle. $60 to $75. Yeah, I looked at my notes for May 6 and all I have is that we approved it and we were applying it to uh the HA account on
Hollis Road and they were purchased and delivered. So, um I'm assuming perhaps the invoice came into Herurland. Maybe she may have an idea of what that Mackie uh invoice
may have been. Uh but that was three bundles with some uh roofing nails. Um and the rest of the >> You need uh roofing nails, too, or just the bundle of architectural shading? >> Just just the bundle. We have more than
enough roofing nails. uh probably even enough to do the other side of the roof that we had not planned on doing this time around. Um so I would like to um see if the commission will approve
the additional cost of one more bundle of roofing shingles to finish the shed. >> Okay. Yeah. I just found online that uh
Mackie generally sells uh shingles for $35 to $45 a bundle. >> Okay. >> So, why don't we make it a proposal not to exceed $100 out of the HOS fund. >> Okay. >> Or one bundle of the architectural shingles.
Looking for a motion to approve that proposal. >> Move. Second, Teddy. Mike and Teddy. Uh, roll call vote. Rich Bur. >> Hi. >> Mike Larouche. >> Hi. >> Teddy Jet.
>> Hi. >> Andrea Bernett. >> Hi. >> I for myself. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> The other thing is I think we've had uh did you get a chance to go to Hollis Road and uh inspect the cleaning
that was done? Um, and I think uh last Saturday we had Andrea and Teddy come by uh just to see about the carpeting that was cleaned. For me, it looked like, you
know, there was still a telltale odor of a pet did live there at some point. So, um um I was I just went ahead and uh um we'll schedule
um two local um carpet people just to give us a number of what it would cost to replace those carpets. Not to say we're not bound by any of it. just want to get a number out there so we have an idea that if we wanted to do that, we
would have a number uh that was current and go from there. So, I just let people know that that was part of the plan that I have. I I >> uh questions. Um Teddy Det.
Uh, not a question, but I was um, yeah, I went and inspected it as well, and you can definitely tell there were pets there. But, um, as someone who has, uh, hopped around apartments before, uh, for a competitive rate, I would jump
on the opportunity to live there. Not not me personally at this point in my life, but in the past, like I definitely would have uh, taken that up and done the work for it. So, I think we could definitely find a custodian
willing to do it uh depending on the rate. But yeah, >> that'd be really cool if we could find somebody. I had also mentioned um their ozone treatments that uh you can do. And I know we've purchased like the DIY ones
for like cars that the rodents get into and you know, martyr themselves in and they seem pretty effective. But I I know that there are services that'll do that. That also might be a lower cost uh way of uh dealing with this problem.
Earlin, you have your hand up. >> I did. I just wanted to mention that I did send an email to the town manager in regards to setting up a meeting with her. I think there was some discrepancies after the um email we received from our facilities
director with all the things that needed to be updated at the property. And I think she was a little hesitant with having the commission move forward and um renting or leasing or having um somebody occupy the property. So I
thought it would be in the best interest um for everyone to kind of sit down with her and say this is how we are going to move forward and this this is how we're going to do it and where the funds are coming from and show her that. Um I
think there's a little bit of lag in what um the commission brings in from the house and what can be done to update it. And then my plan is to have this done sometime next week. So I was hoping that if anybody is available, I reached
out to her uh in the beginning of the week and I reached out to her uh today again late afternoon asking for some availability. So if anybody's available that has a little bit more context and um
>> I think we ought to have that. I think that's a good thing to do honestly. So, um I think that's an excellent suggestion, Hurling. I think we ought to try to plan it around Jenny's availability uh since she's the chair uh now and I I don't I think she's here
next week and then maybe gone a bit the following week. Um so I think we definitely want to get her availability looped into, you know, our planning. >> Yeah. My only reasoning for kind of rushing this is that um
we have the I'm sorry, council, town council has like open hours August 18th. >> So I would like to kind of schedule this so then I can kind of press him that day and give him like, hey, can we get this
with a turn around of like, >> you know, 48 to 72 hours max. that way we can move forward because I think it's it's been delayed long enough and it you know we should really try to get this moving and I'm I'm afraid with the special town >> meeting
>> special town meeting they're already talking about budgets again we're going to go back into that vortex of nothing can be handled because we're so hyperfocused on these other issues. >> Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. And and yeah, and winter is coming, right? And we got to
think about how do we if we're going to protect that asset, how do we protect that asset? >> Yes. >> Okay, I understand it. Um, so, uh, yeah, let's, uh, see when Jenny's available and if, uh, you know, I need to bridge
the gap there, you know, I can look into bridging the gap there. Madam Chair, >> yes, Mike. >> I just wanted to say that I'm available uh whenever you >> or the commission decides to have that meeting. I will try to make myself
available as well. >> Okay, very good. Thank you. I appreciate that support, Mike. >> Okay, >> you do have a lot of that history. Awesome. Okay, going back to going back to our agenda because it is getting late
in the evening. Uh committee reports, do we have any updates on the master plan steering committee? >> No new update. >> Okay, very good. Open space, >> we haven't met. >> Okay, very good. And uh Jenny is our
storm water contact and she's not here tonight. So then any uh any final uh communications or comment from the commission? Do we have any other members of the
public on? I think we do. Okay. Uh, very good. Then I think I am looking for a It's the time is uh 9:53. I'm looking for a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Spoke at once. Wow. Uh, so I'm going to
take the original motion from Rich and the uh uh second from Teddy. Roll call vote. Uh, Rich Bers, >> I. >> Mike Lar Ro >> I. >> Teddy >> I. >> Andrea >> I. >> And I for myself. Thank you all. >> Thank you.
>> Good night. >> Good night everybody. Oh my