there. All right. Calling to order the Wednesday, November 5th, 2025 meeting of the Lunenburgg Conservation at 7:03 p.m. in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law. Please be advised that this meeting is being audio video
recorded. The agenda lists all of the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and those reasonably anticipated by the chair. Votes may be taken from these discussions. Not all items may be discussed and other items may be raised to the extent permitted by open meeting law. Please be advised the town of Lunenburgg utilizes Zoom platform as
host for its hybrid and remote meetings. That the Zoom platform utilizes AI technology known as AI companion to create audio transcriptions of meetings to aid in the subsequent preparation of meeting minutes and that the AI companion is activated immediately upon launching the Zoom application. You were
hereby notified that this AI technology may capture audio prior to the start of the meeting and or following the conclusion of the meeting. Okay. Um, we do not have any appointments tonight uh for public comment. I'll start I'll
open up for public comment now. Comment. Oh, actually, nope. I have to do a roll call. Roll call. Um, Chris St. Germaine >> here. Andrea Bernap >> here. >> Teddy Ducet
>> here. >> Mike Larish >> here. >> And I am present Jenny Puther. Okay, I'm going to open up for public comment. Comments are to be limited to three minutes and on a subject matter
under the direct jurisdiction of the commission. Comments about current agenda items are to be made during the comment period of the specific agenda item. Please address all comments to the chair. Do we have anyone here for public comment?
It does not appear that we do. Okay. Um we have some minutes to approve. um where we don't have two members here who would be we would need for a quorum to approve the meetings previous to the beginning
of July meetings. I will skip over those. Um are we prepared to vote on the minutes for 917 93 820 um 716?
And it looks like that's it. I actually found an issue with 93, so I sent that over to Mike. Um, so the meetings that I'm ready to vote on are 917, 820, 716. Have you Have Andrea says she's good.
Has anyone else? >> I'm good. >> Okay, >> I'm good. >> All right, >> good. >> Okay. Um, so can I get a motion for the meetings from 9:17?
>> So moved. >> Second. >> Okay, that's Mike with the motion and Chris with the second. Roll call vote. Chris St. Germaine. >> I. >> Andrea Bernard. >> I. >> Petty Det. >> I.
>> And Mike Larouche. >> I. >> And I for myself. Um, we could we could do the other ones together, right? Oh, there's only Yeah, there's two others. Can I have a motion to approve
the meetings from the minutes uh the minutes from the meeting of 8 2025 and 7:16 2025? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Okay, that's Mike with the motion and Chris with the second. Uh, roll call vote. Chris St. Germaine.
>> Hi. >> Andrea Bernup. >> Hi. Petty Ducet >> I >> and Mike Larouche >> I >> and I for myself. All right. So that is the minutes from 917, 8:20 and 7:16
approved. Okay. Um on to new public hearings. Uh we have up first pursuant to MGL chapter 131 section 40 as amended in the town of Lunberg wetlands protection and
municipal bylaws a public hearing on a notice of intent by Paula Valente to supplement an existing shoreline revetment for stabilization and protection of the shoreline which has experienced significant wash out and erosion due to boat and wave activity on Lake Shirley. Do we have the applicant
or their representative? >> Yep. Uh Ryan Proctor with Dillis and Roy and I believe Paula is on this call as well. >> All right, let me um give you the ability to share. >> That would be terrific. Thank you. >> All set.
>> All right. All right. Uh so thank you for your time tonight. Uh Ryan Proctor, Dillison Roy, uh representing Paula Valente and the project at 30 Johnson Street. Um, some of the commission members may be familiar with this site. Approximately four years ago, we had permitted the reconstruction of an existing single
family dwelling. At the time, we repaired and replaced the existing septic system um and installed a new driveway. That work has since been completed. The project that is before you tonight is is strictly limited to along the shoreline. Um, we are essentially looking for a restoration
and stabilization project. um as was read into the record, there's some significant significant undercutting of the shoreline um mainly due to the increased boat traffic on the lake um and wind activity. Um so there are currently two existing rock revetments
um and kind of break walls along the shoreline I'll highlight here in yellow. Um the first of which is slightly larger on the northwest side of the property and then there's one sort of halfway along the shoreline um that is existing. Um so those are natural boulder walls. I'll show some photos of those in a
moment. Um, in addition to um, doing some repair and supplementing of those two walls, we are also proposing to stabilize the remainder of the shoreline um, with a masonry block wall um, which I'm going to highlight here in blue. Um, so we're actually proposing to pull this
back into the slope a little bit and then the block wall would run connect connect to the natural the existing reetment and then along this portion of the shoreline as well um adjacent to um each of the existing docks that are on the property.
So I'm going to switch over to some photos and I'm happy to bounce back and forth um as necessary. Um but the first photo here is the the first of the existing rock revetments. Um so as you can see the existing lawn comes right to the top of the the brake wall. Um you
can see the natural stones here and then you can also see some of where this wash out is happening here. And this is a a common occurrence along the shoreline. Um right here you can see a little bit um you know where the water is starting to pull the vegetation down where the rocks are missing. So the intent with
the supplementing of this is essentially to kind of reestablish the wall um fill in the gaps and raise it slightly to match the grades of the existing lawn um such that we can provide that stabilization that's currently there while maintaining that existing
characteristics of that reetment. As you move down the shoreline uh we get to the first dock. Um we are not we are proposing to keep the dock. Um and then you can see behind this and I'm going to bounce down. Uh many years ago, there was an existing
beach area that uh that was more significant than this. Um you can see in this photo, I apologize, it's a little bit blurry. Um maybe this one's a little bit better. Um you can see a lot of the existing sediment. Um you can see the loose stones and gravel starting to being pulled down the shoreline and into
the lake. Um especially in this area here. Um so what we're posing, this is one of the areas where the masonry block wall would kind of flare back into the property. So away from the lake. Um but we'd build up this burm um install some steps and then reestablish and kind of
reclaim that beach area that has historically been there. Um while providing the stabilization of this area that's being washed out and that would connect again to the second existing rock revetment um that is along the sort of middle portion of the property there.
Um so I'll keep moving down through the photos. This is another area um as you move east on the site along the shoreline um where you can see the lawn existing lawn runs right up to the edge of the water and you can see this kind of undercutting um from the wave activity and the and the
wind action. Um you can actually see some of the moss and where this grass is starting to fall down. Um and then these stones here is actually an existing uh uh boat launch. Um so we are in intending to reestablish that in the same location um along with this project
as well. And then lastly, as you move down the shoreline, again, you can see um this undercutting that's happening um threatening to undercut some of the existing vegetation. Um in the past couple years, there's been some mature trees that have actually fallen um due to this. Um I think there I think there
were both birch trees, but there were two trees that have fallen um next to the existing landscape area um as a result of of this wave activity along the shoreline. Um, so this area we're proposing the the block wall um that would be set back into the slope um essentially where that undercutting is
happening. So we're not ex proposing to extend the lawn out towards the lake. We're just intending to try to stabilize what's there um the best we can to prevent against future erosion. In addition to the shoreline walls, we're also proposing to supplement some
of the existing vegetation. Um so there is some ex existing vegetation. Um I did provide a landscape table um with some native plantings that we would just again we're we're not proposing to um remove and replace. We're just proposing a supplement. Um so I did call out some
species there um that we would just install within the 30 within the 30 foot um wetland offset um to supplement that existing vegetation. We are not proposing any tree removal um as part of this project. Uh there are two other items I want to talk about. Um anytime
we are proposing on a project of this state um to alter more than 50 linear feet of bank, it triggers a threshold that requires a wildlife habitat evaluation uh per the wetland protection act. Um so the applicant was proactive with that and engaged Dan Wells from LEC
Environmental to prepare that habitat evaluation and I submitted that I believe uh last Wednesday. Um so that is available in open gov. I'm happy to flip through that report or or talk to anything in there, but by and large um the conclusion of of Dan's report was
that by maintaining the existing characteristics of the shoreline while providing the existing stabilization um for future stabilization, we are not significantly or adversely affecting uh the habitat on not only this property but on the lake as a whole. And then the
last thing I'll say is uh last week we did receive a file number from Mass D. Um and that for the record is 2081364. Uh they had a Oh, I'm sorry. Uh you got my projects mixed up. On Monday, uh this
past Monday, we received comments from Mass D. Um so earlier this morning, I uploaded a response letter. I completely understand if you haven't had a chance to review it yet. Um there were only two comments. The first of which was uh providing some responses to the performance standards of bank
alteration, land underwater and flood plane. Um so I've done that. And then the second comment um was relative to two conditions, both of which we do not object to. Um the first of which was that the work be conditioned to occur during periods of
lake draw down. Um we're happy to do that. I think that makes sense from a construction standpoint and also an environmental standpoint. And if uh the commission that was out there over the weekend saw um the waters receded probably 10 to 15 feet from the shoreline. So we we do not object to that at all. And the second um was that
the commission may may want to include a condition that requires an asbuilt plan with final grades prior to issuance of a certificate of compliance. U we expect that that seems to be pretty standard. So of course we would not object to that either. Um so I think I will leave it at
that. I'm happy to bounce between site plans or the habitat evaluation if you have any questions on anything. >> Thanks so much, Ryan. >> Um, do we have any questions for members of the commission? >> Yes,
>> Chris. >> Ryan, can you go back to the picture with the boat launch and just tell me a little bit about that um reclaiming? I was just I only usually when I think of a boat launch, I think of, you know, a cars width. So, and I only see one narrow block. Can you explain what that is?
>> Yeah. And uh uh Paula might be able to help me out here, but basically it's just these are like the tire where the tire treads of a trailer would go essentially. I believe they've just been backing down historically. Um back there's there's one under the moss on the right that I can't see. Right. Is that >> That's correct. Yeah, you can see some
of the blocks have actually washed out here, but Yeah, exactly. >> All right. Thank you. >> Okay. Is that it, Chris? >> Yeah. >> All right. Do we have any other questions from members of the commission?
Does not appear. So, um, can you flip through your pictures again for me, Ryan? I I had a question come up on my >> and and so for the the beach area. >> Yep. Um the plan was a masonry wall on
the beach area. Okay. >> Yep. >> And staying in that same footprint that we're seeing, but just >> uh yeah, we we're actually proposing to move it back um away from the lake a little bit. So the the wall itself would it would not quite a I'm going to use
the term head wall, but more of a wing wall. It would go back into the shoreline. Um so that this existing material would be removed and then we'd kind of reestablish a beach area here with the steps up to this upper level. >> Okay. I actually don't have any other
questions on this. Um, I was out in the site this weekend and there's definitely erosion happening. Um, so do we have any questions for members of the public?
Did they does the um board need to see any of the previous pictures of the way it looked some years ago? I believe Ryan has those available. If you have them, Ryan, I'd be happy to see them. >> Yes. Let me try to pull those up. I
Yeah, I have too many windows. I too many projects on tonight. I'm sorry. Um >> I feel like you're going to be with us all night tonight. >> I I Yeah, we're gonna have a We're gonna have a fun time tonight. I had them and I lost them. I'm so sorry.
>> It's it's it's these pictures are crazy for me because it it the water is just so far away from there now. It's >> It is incredible. >> Yeah. >> Okay, I found them. Uh just bear with me one second here. >> Take your time.
All right, let me pull them over. Are they showing up on the screen right now? >> They are not. >> Okay. All right. Good. Let me try to uh let me try to res re share might have to do one picture at a time. Uh but this is >> uh this is one photo. You can see
>> kind of how much more established this beach area was. And then this um did drop down towards the lake here. But this is that um that first dock on the left um there and that stone revetment uh would would be on the left of that as well. Um so that that is one photo and
then let me try to bounce to the other one here. >> So that was the obviously if we're looking from the house that was the dock that was on the left >> correct? Yes. Okay. >> Yeah. And then this is uh the same thing here. Um, so this is that it's a little bit cut off, but you can see the beach
area um down there where the where the boat's pulling up. >> Okay. So, and is that the is that that it just reveated coming like away from the house or is that water just because it looks like the dock is kind of the same as it is now, right?
>> I think the dock location is the same. Um >> I can speak from experience with um a property my my family has, but when you have these beach areas here, it the sand eventually over time just runs out. So it just builds up um under the lake water. And I think that's what's
happening here. Um and that's visible, if you'll permit me to bounce back one more time to my my pictures. >> Um you can see, you know, you can see this sand here and the fines from this area are eventually there. And I think this, like you said, the vegetation has
just started to pop through there. >> Okay. >> But yeah, and even in this picture here, you can see how this is much more sandy and less less loom. >> Okay. Um, and then can you go back to the plan one more time?
>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. Yeah. So this is this is the area. This is kind of you can see the contours how they get a little bit steeper here. So this is where that that wash out's happening. So we're just proposing to to pull this retaining wall in on both sides and we'd have some steps down from
the from the lawn area into that that new level area or the reestablished level area. Okay. >> Uh no more any more comments or questions from the commission? I have a comment.
>> Yep. Um, who is that? >> Teddy. >> Oh, hi Teddy. Oh, yeah. >> Hi. I just want to say I appreciate the um inclusion of native plants into this plan. >> Oh, thank you. >> That is all. >> Thank you, Teddy.
>> Great. >> Uh Mike has his hand up. >> Yes, Madam Chair. Um just wondering what are the steps going to be constructed with material >> granite steps it looks like. >> Yeah, we haven't called out as as
granite. >> Okay. >> All right. Do we have any other questions for members of the commission? Right. Do we have possibly a motion. Um, if we were to have a motion, it would I like to have
the conditions that the D asked for, which would be occurring during the draw down, which it's drawn down now, and um an asbuilt with final grades, which we would ask for anyway. >> So moved. We
>> have a second. Do we have a second? >> Second. >> Okay. >> All right. Roll call vote. Chris Germaine. >> I. >> Andrea Bernat. >> I. >> Teddy Ducet. >> I. >> Mike Larouche.
>> I. >> And I for myself. So that is um approved with the conditions that it occurs during the draw down. and um we receive an asbuilt with final grades. >> Excellent. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
>> Thanks, Ryan. >> Thank you. Have a good night. >> Thank you. >> All right. Uh up next we have pursuant to MGL chapter 131 section 40 is amended and the town of Lunenburgg wetlands protection and municipal bylaws a public
hearing on a request for determination of applicability by Mark and Linda Chase for emergency repairs to a 50 plus year old retaining wall on the shore of Lake Wham. The wall measures 27 feet long and is within 10 ft of the lake shore. The wall is seriously damaged and our consulting engineer found that it is in
danger of collapsing. The repairs will will consist of placing concrete retaining wall blocks against the existing wall. The wall will include preparing a concrete base for the blocks and grading the yard behind the wall. It's a long one. >> Okay. Um, do we have the applicant or the representative on the meeting?
>> Yep. Ryan Proctor Dillison Roy representing the applicant. >> Okay. All right. Ryan, do you want to go over this a little bit with us? I >> I'd be happy to. So, I actually had the benefit of of meeting the commission on a site on Saturday. Uh, it was very windy. Um, >> it was But I will share some photos um just to
give the commission idea of the the project here. So um as was just read the the proposed project uh was filed for by the applicants themselves actually. Um but where we have an is an existing vertical concrete wall on Lake Wham. Um there
actually was a previously existing deck in this location that has since rotted away, but you can see old uh evidence of the uh timber supports here on the base of the wall. But essentially what we're proposing to do is to supplement this existing wall um instead of removing the
concrete and risk losing um the vegetation behind it and and worried about erosion and and all that. Um it's it's not shown in this picture, but it's quite steep um behind this wall as well heading back up towards the house. But what the applicants are proposing to do
is construct a new block wall in front of this wall. So, we would pour a 3-ft wide concrete pad and then install the new um the block walls, the um they're 2x3x six. Um and we'd stack those in three layers, basically match the height
of this wall right in front of it. And then we'd supplement the voids uh between the two walls with crush stone. And then the only other thing we do is we'd pull some material from behind this wall and again install some crush down and gravel um just to encourage the infiltration um behind and in between
both of these walls before it gets to the lake. Um so this is the existing site pictures. I'll just pull over to the design plan just to give a profile view. Um so essentially we have the existing vertical wall here. We're proposing to install the block wall in front of it.
Um again we'd fill these voids with gravel. And then on the uphill side we are proposing to do some minor excavation of the existing material and in uh clean the existing weeps for the wall and then install some crushed gravel in this area as well just to encourage that excfiltration.
And then I do just have a plan view uh shown up here. Um so this is the existing landing with the wing walls. Um we're just installing with the same length in that same landing area. Um that that block wall there. the uh Willie Proctor is doing the excavating.
The excavator for the project will sit on the upwind side of the project. Um and we'll just turn and place the blocks uh in place there. And a project of this nature is is probably start to finish um two days um at most. Um so a relatively
quick project. Um but the applicants are are very worried about the retaining wall in its current state. Um, there was one question. Um, I'm not sure if she's here yet, but uh, Mary had asked at the sidewalk about whether this needs a building permit. Um, so I did reach out to Brian, the building commissioner, and
he confirmed that it if it is over 4T, um, which it is currently proposed to be over four feet, that it would need a building permit. Um, so if the commission were to act favorably on this, we would still need to go to him um, to get a building permit for this project. >> You read my mind because I was going to ask that.
>> Excellent. Well, I'm h that's that's the goal. Um, so if there's any questions, um, that's all I have to say at this point, but if there's any questions, I'm happy to take them. >> Okay. Um, do we have any questions for members of the commission? >> I have a question. >> Okay, Chris.
>> So, this is just my lack of construction knowledge. So, if the existing wall is compromised, which I guess is getting pushed out towards the lake. Yes. >> My is it my understanding that these blocks will be able to handle the the push these new blocks will be able to
handle the for force of the old wall pushing against it. >> That's that's my understanding. We will taper it back. Um so it's not going to be quite a vertical wall. You can see uh maybe you can't see it's a little bit tough, but there is going to be leaning back into the wall. And then with the um
I think with this excavation back here, we're actually proposing to um hopefully that'll relieve some of the pressure from the soil with the gravel in the back. Okay. >> And and the additional drainage that we're proposing there. >> All right. Thank you. >> Do we have any other questions for
members of the commission? Um Teddy? >> Yeah. So I you said that you're excavating um out the soil behind the initial wall and then you're putting in gravel and then are you putting in the soil back over the gravel?
That's correct. Yes. So actually you can see this this trench here um we fill the voids with gravel and then the the top soil would be restored with the existing material and then any disturbed areas would be loomed and seated. >> Okay,
>> great question Denny. Thanks. Um, Mike, you have your hand up. >> Yes, Madam Chair. >> Um, Ryan, are you not intending to connect these two walls together? Uh, they're
going to be the new wall will be freestanding. >> That's correct. Um, I am not aware of any plans to connect the two walls. >> Okay. And like Chris, it would seem to me that,
you know, any chance um to give more protection for the wall somehow. I would think that connecting them would give it more strength, but once again, I'm not a concrete person. >> Yep.
>> Oh, sorry. >> Is it because it's at an angle or is that just the drawing? It appears that it's that it's uh it's not um horizontally plum with the ground. It looks like it's Is that just my my view
that it looks like it's coming into the wall or is that just an illusion? >> Uh the proposed wall, you mean, Mike? >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, that that will be tapered back. We actually had the structural engineer on site on Saturday and and he confirmed that it will be leaned back. Um >> Okay. He's the one that drafted this
plan. I like I said, I'm not aware of any connection uh to the existing wall, but it will be tapered back. >> Okay. >> Towards existing. >> Well, I certainly trust him and his name will be on this project, so we can go back to him if >> Yeah, it's it's already on it.
>> Okay, great. Excellent. Thank you. >> The back wall is like a poured concrete wall with like wings and then from what it looks like to me is these are going to be like those big ready rock style. >> Exactly. Yes. >> blocks. And those are like they can be
anywhere from like 1,800 to like 4,000 lb depending on how big they are. And they fit together like puzzle pieces. And then they taper back a little bit. So they'll be they turn back like a couple inches as you go up. So they don't have to connect in. They just kind
of sit in front of it and we'll take some of that pressure from behind the wall. Does that make sense? >> I hear you. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Thank you. >> Do we have any other questions from
members of the commission? Okay. Do um we have a motion I guess for a determination. Looking for a negative determination
here most likely. >> I move for negative determination. >> Right. Do we have a second? >> Second. Mike. >> All right. Um, roll call vote. Chris Germaine. >> I. >> Mike Larouche.
>> I. >> Andrea Bernett. >> Hi. >> Teddy Det. >> I. and I for myself. All right, that is uh finding of a negative determination.
>> Great. Thank Thank you very much. >> All right. Okay. Up next we have pursuant to MGL chapter 131 section 40 as amended in the town of Lunenburgg wetlands protection and municipal bylaws a public hearing on a notice of intent
by Robin Corvette to repair and reinforce the retaining wall that has eroded on their property. >> Do we have the applicant or the representative here? >> Yes, we're here. >> Hi Robin and Larry. Um, is is Ryan
representing you or are you representing yourselves? >> No, he's here with us. I am as well. Oh, he's here tonight. Okay. >> All right, Ryan, will you be presenting for us? >> I'd be happy to. I will go ahead and share my screen once more. >> Thank you, Ryan.
>> You're welcome. >> All right. Uh just again once more for the record, Ryan Proctor, Dillis and Roy representing Robin and Larry Corbett and their project 32 Sunset A on Lake Wham. Um by and large, this project is broken down into two phases or two portions. Um
first and foremost, this this application has been filed as a shoreline restoration project. Uh similar to the first application, um there is an existing rock revetment that runs the entire frontage of the property um that I'll just highlight here um
along Lake Wham um that has seen some heavy deterioration um on this side of the lake. Um as you probably know, Madam Chair, the wind and wave activity rips right down um and there's not much to protect it. Um so this shoreline has seen some erosion. Um, and what we're
proposing to do along the entire frontage is install a dry stack uh rock revetment and reestablish that that uh break wall along the shoreline. Um, so we're not proposing um any masonry block, any any concrete. Um the
applicants have been working with Brett Ramseden um who will be doing this project um and u Brett is very familiar with working on these lakefront projects um in town and we've worked with him many times. Um so he will be doing that work. Um we are not proposing to expand
the existing footprint. We are not proposing to push the existing wall further into the lake. We really want to maintain what's there. Um reestablish that and make sure that the shoreline's protected. Um so along with the project there is some I believe some bittersweet um along the property that would be
removed along the retaining wall, the existing wall. Um so we do intend to include that as part of this proposed project. The second portion, if you will, um is in the upland side. Um the applicants are proposing to replace and uh repair
and provide some additional stabilization of the slope between their deck um and the shoreline. Um so currently access is is very steep um and and getting to the point of being unsafe. Um so I've in red I've actually highlighted um what is currently a
previously existing walkway and patio area. Um they're intending to remove what is there currently uh which is some blocks and keystone and uh replace that with a uh paper patio and then along the slope side of that to provide the
stabilization. We're proposing again a dry stack retaining wall and landscape boulders to hold back that slope um in a couple tiers um just given the just given the topography of the site here. Um so we'll almost have uh two layers of retaining walls with a grass strip in
between. Um, and that is all happening between the deck and the shoreline. And then instead of having to traverse down the steep slope, we are actually rerouting this walkway around um with a landing area and some stairs again supported by
the the large native landscape uh landscape boulders um to hold back the slope. And then that would ultimately make its way down to this lower landing area along and to supplement the retaining walls. Um adjacent to and on top of the retaining walls, we are proposing um a
pretty significant amount of native landscaping. I did include a planting schedule. Um so we have a couple red maples, some blue stem, um some low bush blueberries, and some button bush that we're proposing. And then any areas that are not landscaped, um we are proposing
to restore with lumen and seed. And uh similar to the other project, we are not proposing any mature tree removal um for this project. Uh similar to the 30 Johnson Street project, as I mentioned, u when we are working on proposed bank, um this
project will also trigger the 50-foot uh threshold for requiring a wildlife habitat evaluation. Um so the the applicant was proactive and hired uh Dan Wells from LEC environmental to perform and uh an inspection and prepare the wildlife habitat evaluation. Um so Dan
did so and the the finding was the same. In this case we are essentially doing a repair and replace of the existing uh rock revetment in kind. Um so his findings were um since that we're maintaining the existing wildlife habitat um that we're not going to be creating an adverse scenario um for the
existing critters um and wildlife along the shoreline. Um so I'm happy to pull up that report and go through that. Um I know he had some good photos of the site as well. >> That'd be great. >> And uh just one more comment then I'll happy to take any questions. Um we also did receive a file number for this project as well. Um 2081362
was the number. Um there were two comments. The first of which was um actually relative to the flood plane. Um our previous flood plane elevation was actually higher than the updated maps that just came out. Um so we adjusted that on our site plan which uh actually
lessened our impacts which we saw as a positive thing. And the uh second of which um was something that we had already addressed um but it was that the D recommended that the commission may exercise their discretion in requiring a wildlife habitat evaluation um which as
I just mentioned we had proactively prepared. Um so that were those were the only two comments. Um probably just leave it there. If there's any questions I'd be happy to take them. Great. >> Um oh did you want to go over the habitat evaluation?
>> Sure. Yeah. Um yeah I can do that. Let me uh pull it up. Uh forgive me. So I will go through well actually it opened right up on the summary. So I will uh I might as well start here. So this was uh Dan Wells's findings from LEC. So, the proposed project will not permanently impair or remove any
important habitat features uh listed in appendix A or B or substantially reduce the ability of the resource area to provide wildlife habitat functions including food, shelter, migratory, and breeding areas for generalist wildlife species. And then I'll just skip down the uh therefore conclude that the pros
project avoids, minimizes, and mitigates adverse effects on wildlife habitat and that it will not following two growing seasons of the project completion and thereafter substantially reduce the site's capacity to provide important wildlife habitat functions. Um so I will just go through I know we had some good
pictures of the site. Um so this is uh the shoreline down here and um the existing deck um that I mentioned. Um you can kind of tell from the picture how steep this is and see how low the water elevation is in comparison to where the standing picture was taken
here. This is a picture of kind of the existing condition. Um you can see some undercutting here. Um I am not an expert but this I believe is some bittersweet Oh yeah. Uh oriental bit sweet vines. Yep. >> Um
>> and then these are just some pictures of the bank. Uh when I was out there, there was there's quite a bit of debris along the shoreline as well. I think you can see some of that that we'd intend to clean up as part of this project as well. Um this is again the existing wall and part of the existing structure that
is there currently um with some steps and then a landing area where they're currently the applicants are currently st um storing their dock. Uh again more existing condition of the shoreline. Uh you can see some undercutting. This is the existing
revetment, the vegetation on top. And then this area here, uh, again, bittersweet. There's some debris that is washed up. Um, some undercutting of the shoreline on this side of the photo. Um, just general condition, um, of the of the rock revetment.
And Dan must have had his rain boots on because he's in the water here. But, uh, this is looking on. So, this is you'd park up in the driveway. This is where you walk down. And then this um steep slope kind of starts down here to get down to the actual dock itself. And I think this is a this is a pretty
good image of how um how that slope kind of cuts off quickly um once you step down from the deck. And I think this is more of the same. This is upland and this is the current path that you walk down from the driveway to get to get down to the the
landing area. So those are the photos. If there's anything else specific in here, I'm happy to um happy to pull it up. >> Uh no, I don't have any other questions about this. >> Um okay, about this report? >> Yeah.
>> Do we have any questions for members of the commission? None. None at all. any comments? >> I think this is very well documented and I think it's actually a good project. It's it's a you know it's it's a
positive project. It's not a it's not a mitigation. It's uh it's it's good. So I'm I'm happy to see this. >> I agree. I think that the um the natural rock is also very good for the the shoreline. Um using that myself for my
wall. Do we have any other questions or comments from members of the commission? Do we have any questions or comments from members of the public? does not appear that we do. Um
I guess that I'd be looking for a motion. I'm going to recuse myself on this one because these are this house is only a couple houses away from me and I um am friendly with the owners. So just to be on the up and up, I will
recuse myself from this one. >> I motion to approve this as presented. >> Do we have a second? >> I second. >> Okay. Uh roll call vote. It's a Chris with the motion. Mike with the second.
Roll call vote. Chris Andrew. Hi. >> Andrea Bernett. I >> Teddy Ducet >> I >> Mike Larouche >> I >> and I abstain but that is approved with a
>> majority. >> Good. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time. >> Thanks Ryan. >> Thank you. >> Thanks Robin and Larry. All right. Have a good night. >> You too. >> Take care. >> You too. >> Bye bye. >> Okay. Um
for continued public hearings, uh we have a public hearing on a notice of intent by the town of Lunenberg DPW for the replacement of the deteriorated culvert at Northfield Road over Mulpus Brook.
This is at 763 Northfield Road. Do we have the engineer on the call for this project? do not see them. Um I have not received well in open gov it does say that they requested to continue until further
notice. Um so I have I guess that would count as them requesting to continue through multiple meetings. So we need to do we need to formally motion >> yeah we would have to have a motion to
continue to the next meeting which would be 1119 >> motion to move this to the next meeting. >> Okay. So move. >> All right. So that is a motion to move
to the November 19th, 2025 meeting um by Chris and a second by >> then we believe >> Mike. >> Mike. Okay. All right. Roll call vote. Chris St. Germaine. >> I. >> Andrea Bernett. >> I. >> Petty Ducet. >> I.
>> Mike Larouche. >> I. >> And I for myself. Um. All right. So that is continued. to November 19th, 2025. And I will ask uh the DPW to check in
with this engineer because we didn't ask for much 2020. Okay. Um up next we have administrative determinations. We only have one and
that is at 36 Peninsula Drive and that is um Brian Carrian for the removal of one large tree that has died. Let me pull this up and open Gov. Do we have the applicant on the line? It looks like we do.
>> I am here, Madam Chair. >> Okay, let me um do you do you have anything you'd like to present? Um, no. I actually had submitted it all online, but I don't have anything right in front of me because it was on a different computer. >> Okay. Yeah, I can I can share for you. >> Oh, awesome. Thank you.
>> Give me one. Let me share. Um, okay. So see what we have for notes from our administrator. Based on visual observations in the provided documentation, the white pine
in question shows clear signs of decline, including extensive browning of needles and dead or falling branches. The tree is notably tall and located in proximity to the residents. Given its current deteriorating condition and the potential for significant damage or personal injury should it fall, it
removal is considered necessary for safety reasons. And these are pictures from our Zoom is just always in the way from our administrator. So this is and it's just one tree
that you're asking to remove. Is it this one? No, it's actually uh from what I can see, it's the tree that's to the right. Um >> Okay, you can see my mouse moving. Everybody can see my mouse moving. Okay. >> All right. >> Actually, that looks uh Yeah, that does
look correct. Yep. >> Yeah, the tree was marked with an orange flag so he would know which one it was. >> Okay. Okay. Do we Is there's anything else? Those pictures. It's just the pictures
that she Oh, and here is a diagram. >> Okay. So, this is >> not nearly as not nearly as nice as the diagrams I saw earlier in the meeting. So this is where the tree is. So this is the water's edge. >> Okay. Um
All right. Okay. Do we have any questions from members of the commission? Hold on. Let me uh get my meeting back. Hold on. Okay. Do we have any questions for members of the commission?
Do we have any questions from members of the public? >> Do we have a motion to approve to remove this tree? >> So moved. >> Have a second. >> Second. >> All right. That is a motion by Mike and
a second by Chris. Um, roll call vote. Chris and Germaine. I. >> Andrea Bernap. Hi >> Teddy Det. >> I >> and Mike Larouche. >> I >> and I for myself. Okay. Um that is
an approval to remove the tree. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks. Have a great night. >> All right. You too. Thanks for your time. >> Thank you. All right. Bye bye. >> Bye. Some >> notes. Okay. Um, we don't have any extension
request, permit, certificates of compliance, or project changes tonight. So, we're moving on to enforcement. Um, for I have a couple of updates. Tenmass, um, we're checking in with them because they were supposed to file by April. I haven't seen anything come
through since then. Um 1168 Massav rear. The fine was mailed. It was returned and then it's remailed to the correct address because we had the wrong property owner on record in the access GIS. Um 48 Medane Herland is in contact
with the property owners. 1147 Mass A. The mail was returned. I'm not sure what they are planning on doing next. Um 314 Highland Street, they are mailing a violation. That's kind of a newish one.
Um 199 Massav, oh is here. Uh they filed an NOI and I think we have Ryan on the call for this and the applicants. >> We do. Yes. >> All right. Would you like to go over?
>> I I would be happy to. Um I'd be verify I shared my screen again. >> Yep. >> All right. >> All right. So, I'm here and I believe I I believe it was Mike uh Chaplain that was on as well with us. Um but this is the site at 199 Massab. This is the uh
Chaplain uh the old Chapel Lane car and truck dealership. Um this has been discussed for a little while. Um I believe in response to a violation notice. uh we were hired to prepare uh essentially an existing conditions and restoration plan um for the site. Um so
I there's quite a bit of hatching and uh uh line work on this plan. So I'll try to clean it up um in a way that makes sense to everybody. Um, so this kind of existing dash line that I'm uh tracing with my cursor here, this looped area here, um, was a previously existing and
and currently still there today. Um, compacted gravel pathway um, around the rear of the property. Um, this portion of the site over the past 40 or 50 years has historically been uh, used as um, not a dump, but a collection area for
uh, old vehicles and debris. Um, so I just want to be clear from the start that and I think this has been said by the the applicants and uh by Greg at a previous meeting, but the disturbance that has happened within the buffer zone was a result of an attempt to clean up the property and remove a lot of the
debris and old vehicles that were on the site. Um so we are proposing restoration here but the applicants um by and large were intending to clean uh clean up and remove debris of the property um as they prepare to sell it. Um so that is
essentially why we ended up here. Um what we've done is broken down the disturbance u within each of your wetland offsets including the 100 foot buffer zone. Um, so I have three different hatched areas here and and bear with me and feel free to interrupt
me if um you have any questions. Um, but we have a a dashed hatch of disturbance. This is disturbance area between the zero and 30 foot no touch setback. Uh, we have a net hatch um that's between disturbance between the 30 and 50 foot
no build setback. and then a um a beehive uh hatch or hexagonal uh hatch for the 50ft to 100 ft buffer zone disturbance. Um so I'll just point out those around the site. So again, your single dash line, this is disturbance um
that has occurred in while cleaning up the property within the 0 to 30 foot, which is this first orange dash line. Um and there's a couple areas of that along this uh eastern side of the property as well. Your net hatch is between the 30 and the 50 foot wetland offset. And then
your uh hexagonal hatch is the 50 foot to 50 foot uh excuse me 50 foot to 100 foot buffer zone uh disturbance. Um and that as well goes along the the eastern side of the property. And then this red area here um was area this is the area
identified as actual wetland resource area that was disturbed. Um, again, this this area um in particular was uh pulling out, I believe, an old truck frame um from the wetland. Um, so again, the owners were were trying to clean up the property and that's the result of the disturbance there. Um, so we have a
handful of mitigation members that uh measures that we're proposing uh for this project. Um, most notably within your 0 to 30 foot no disturb zone, we are proposing to plant a series of red maple trees uh installed 50 foot on center. Um these are these tree symbols
here. Those would essentially wrap around the entire of this travel area around this uh adjacent to the wetland area on the east side and then on the west side of the property as well. And then we would permanently demarcate the
30foot um no disturb zone with boulders um offset with those trees so that you'd have a pretty good you'd have a good buffer between the 30-foot um no disturb zone and the wetland resource area. those trees um were determined um that the quantity was determined per your uh
tree replication uh requirements. So the trees that were removed within the 0 to 30 foot no touch setback uh we've identified here and then we provided a calculation um based on the diameter at rest height which is how you measure and determine your replication ratio um the
number of trees that we were proposing. So within the 30 uh there were seven trees within your 30 foot no disturb there were seven trees that were removed. Um so that calculates out to um a total of 13 for replacement. Um we are
actually proposing to do 19 um just for the spacing um and the additional trees that were removed which I'll talk to you um now. So there were some additional trees that were removed um that are indicated by these green circles. These stumps are still in place. Um, so the
applicants did not pull those. Um, it's my understanding that the debris on site, um, including some old junk, the trees had actually grown up through them. So, this tree removal was associated, um, with the removal of the the debris that was on the property. Um, so those stumps are still in place and we are not
proposing to remove those um, as as part of this project. The other measure of uh of stabilization is broken down as well um in our restoration notes. Um so spec so starting with the wetland disturbance
itself which was on the west side of the property. We are proposing to restore that with the New England wet mix a wetland seed mix uh restoration work within the 30-foot no touch zone um will be restored with loom and seed again a wetland seed mix and the maple tree plantings I just mentioned. And then uh
also as I just mentioned uh following that restoration work, we would install the boulders um at 50 feet uh on center and the maple trees offset um to delineate that no disturb zone. And then lastly, the remainder of the disturbance areas um will be restored with lumen
seed um and and mul and fertilizer and mulch. Um it's my understanding that a lot of the vegetation on site it some of it has already started to reveate naturally um but we do intend to supplement that um in all of those disturbance areas that are indicated by
this hatching here. And then the the last item I will mention and I'm happy to discuss this with the commission but I was reviewing this with Greg um earlier today and we had originally proposed straw waddle um at the limit of the work that we're
proposing the restoration work that we're proposing. However, it didn't quite make sense to us to install an erosion control barrier um overseed the area with the plantings and and permanently demarcate that and then once it's established go back in there, you know, in 2 years and and tear up the
erosion control barrier um to remove it and trample through that area. So, if I think one change to this plan that we we would entertain proposing if the commission was amendable and and if not, we totally understand. Um but given that the site is relatively flat and it's
already starting to reveate and we'd supplement that on top um we'd ask that the commission would consider not uh requiring the erosion control protection um since we are doing the erosion the stabilization with the the lumen seed. Um so that's something I'm happy to discuss further um with the commission
tonight. Um but otherwise I think that's this plan. And then actually the only other thing I want to note um earlier this afternoon I did you might have seen a new site plan be uploaded to open gov. The previous site plan the hatching was not clearly showing through. So the plan
I sent over this afternoon did not change materially at all. Um I just bolded out the hatching so that it was more clear and legible. Um so if you saw the attachment come through it's it's this plan that I'm now presenting. Um but there were no material changes to the plan. >> Okay.
>> So um with that, if you have any questions for me um or the applicant, uh we'd be happy to take them. >> Okay. Um so the debris has all been removed part of there's nothing. Is there anything remaining on site as far as debris goes or that was all removed
during the disturbance? >> I believe it's done, but I will defer to uh Mike on that one. you still here? >> Okay, I think I uh turned my audio on. Yes. Um the debris is all gone. Um
there may be one or two little pieces of sheet metal that's out there, but for the most part, uh the area has been cleaned. >> Okay. So, we definitely would want to have all debris removed from the site.
Um, and then the other question I had was this is more just for my education. So I understand this this property is up for sale, right? The the plan is to sell
this property. Now, uh, a certificate of compliance is going to require a couple growing seasons to monitor the replication and the plantings. is the how does that work? Would the new
owner just have to agree to take on the certificate of compliance or >> Well, there is currently not a new owner. We are actively trying to sell the property. Uh we do not have a purchase and sales agreement signed. We do have a couple of interested parties,
but it's in the very early stages. Um, and this property that we're talking about is kind of like the quote unquote back 40. Um, so far the people that have been interested in it are interested in what
you see from the street, the truck dealership. Um, but we felt that we wanted to clean up that back area to make it look a little more presentable. Um, but like I said, right now, um, we have no purchase and
sales agreement with anybody. >> So, Jenny, I think in order for them to do any work, like let's say they somebody bought it, if they wanted to to use the back 40, they actually have to go through a formal process anyways. So, I don't think I don't think there's an
issue with with that because they couldn't do any any construction without going through a formal process. we get reinvolved anyways. So, >> okay, >> I think we're okay there. >> Okay. And we can't vote on it tonight just because it's not under hearings and
it's not it hasn't been advertised. So, but we can definitely get any questions that we have in so that we can make it easier when they come back. Um, so do we the other as far as removing the erosion
control from the plan? What I would like to do for that is uh float that by our interim admin >> and just have her, you know, have a um put get her input on that and then have that to you before the next meeting. Oh,
Mary just joined us. Um, and let's see. Mary just missed all of it, but she's here. >> Yes. Sorry I'm late. >> That's okay. We're glad you're here. Um,
we are on the violation for 199 right now. Ryan is here presenting. They violated NOI. So, he's just showing us what's there, but he's showing us under enforcement because it was not advertised or put on the agenda. So,
we're just taking a look under violations. Um, I had another Did I have another question? No, I think I asked all my questions. Um, do we have any questions from members of the commission?
to get Mary up to speed. Mary, one of the things they're proposing is not doing the straw the um the protection barrier, the straw waddles because the actual disturbance has already been done right now. They're actually in the restoration process. So, they're
proposing not doing it because they're not really doing any work. They're putting down lom and other things. So, that's one of the things that's going to be proposed is going to be asked of the office. >> Okay. Yeah, that's interesting.
>> Yeah. So, I think they're obviously going to have to come back because this wasn't advertised. So, I wanted to float that by her and get her input on that before they come back so that she could we could reach out to them and let them know.
>> Their reasoning, Mary, is that they'd have to go through and trample everything they put down to go remove it. So they thought since it's very flat and the the disturbance has already happened there actually in the restoration phase, it might make sense to not put down the protection barrier.
So that's one of the things we're looking at. Okay, >> it sounds like it makes sense to me, but I just want to >> check the I guess the question I would have is uh you know, not having been out there myself and and so not really
knowing where they are in the restoration um process is I mean regardless there's an obligation by the by the owner to ensure that no no silt um or you know erosion happens into
the actual wetland. So, are we so far past in restoration work that that's just not I mean everything's already out there and it's already established. Is that where we are? >> No. >> Yeah, I can I can answer that, Madam
Chair. Uh so the work that we're proposing on this site plan is not completed in terms of the trees and the and the boulder protection and and demarcation but um on site a lot of the existing educ it has started to naturally reveate in a lot of these areas especially within the no disturb
zone. Um so we are certainly proposing to supplement that as necessary and and and further restore that area but um just given the existing reveation um like like Chris uh was saying you know it's a generally flat site and it it didn't make sense for us to after a
certificate of compliance is eventually issued you know to trample back through there and pull out the straw waddle. >> Okay. Yeah. Um thank you for that Ryan madam chair. I um you know just speaking for myself uh
I wouldn't want to hear what uh Harland's um advice is but certainly don't want to do anything that influences um you know u the the applicant to go and damage the
area that we you know so so carefully wanted them to restore as long as we have reasonable you know assurance insurance that that's that's actually the way it's going to progress. But um hopefully Herland's already been through something like this before and can give us some advice.
>> Yeah. >> Do we have any other questions from members of the commission? It does not appear that we do. In terms of the legal advertisement, I I see I'm looking in open gov. It looks like we did pay that a while ago. Um, was this, you know, was this something
that we messed up here or was this in the office? Did anyone have any visibility into that? >> I So, I know that Greg reached out. I actually I was just checking on all of the violations before the meeting. >> Yeah. And I remember that Greg had reached out and asked for the um first
to be on October 1st, but then I don't believe that the NOI had been filed yet then. >> Okay. >> So, it was didn't end up being on the October 15th meeting and then it looks like Herllin had scheduled it for 11:5 and somehow it got missed.
>> Okay. >> So, um that's why I had mentioned it in the beginning of the meeting. >> Right. And as far as I did not see it advertised. Um, so I don't believe it has been advertised and I did check and
I didn't see it advertised, but I will check with the office and we'll we'll definitely have it on under a hearing for the next meeting. >> Okay. I can follow up with Michael in the uh in the paper tomorrow as well just to make sure that they have what they need. >> Um, yeah. Sorry for
>> the issues. >> That's okay. >> Um, okay. Do we have any other Oh, Mike, you have your hand up. >> Uh, yes, Madam Chair. Uh, is there such a thing as a biodegradable
uh straw waddle? Is that available? So, you could put them down and not have to remove them because they would biodegrade onto itself. I can look into that. Mike I that sounds very familiar. So yeah, I'm happy to check into that before the next meeting.
It sounds >> sounds like mulch. >> Yeah. >> Well, I think there's something made out of wheat. You know, I've seen a few things online. Whether or not it would work here, I don't know. But uh there's certainly something there that could be
placed and then not have to worry about removing it. But I'm not an expert. Uh, that's why we have Ryan here helping us and helping the applicant. So, I'm just throwing it out there. >> That's a good question, Mike.
>> Yeah, that's good. We'll I'll look into that uh prior to the next meeting. >> Thank you, Ryan. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Thanks, Mike. Okay. Well, doesn't do we have any other questions from members of the commission? >> Does not appear that we do. So, um,
for this one, there's I mean there's really no action for us to take right now other than to make sure that this is appropriately listed on the next agenda and also make sure it's been advertised. >> Okay. Yeah. And if there's anything you
need from Dillis and Roy um or the applicant, please let us know and we'll >> Yep. We'll definitely be in touch and make sure we know you know anything that we'll need before the next meeting. >> Great. Thank you. >> All right. Thanks so much, Ryan. >> Madame Chair. >> Yes.
>> Uh Mike Chaplain, I just want to clarify something that was said a few minutes ago um when the question was asked if the area has been completely cleaned of debris and I said that it was, you know, almost completely done. We still had a
couple of things. Uh did I did you indicate that we could should probably remove what is left as long as it doesn't as long as it isn't in the uh buffer zone? >> I would say well anything that's in if there's any debris in the buffer zone it
should be removed but we can address that in the next meeting. >> Okay. >> Um so I don't I think we don't want really any work done in the buffer zone right now until we figure out what our next steps are in the next meeting. Does that make sense to everybody?
Yeah. Okay. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thanks so much. Have a good night. >> You all right. Um, >> so the next violation that we have is
215 Sunset Lane. They filed an NOI and there are some notes in hold on 215 Sunset Lane. Let me just remind myself which one this is.
>> I am also here madam chair representing Dave Fari who's here. Um if you'd like me to give a summary on this I'm happy to provide one. >> Oh yep that would be great. >> Excellent. Um so this is uh 215 Sunset Lane. It's it's D file number 2081344.
Um this is one of those cases. We've we've had a couple of these in the past two years, but um back in April um on uh April 16th of this year, the commission voted to issue a certificate of compliance for the construction of a driveway in a single family home at 215
Sunset Lane. >> And the order of conditions was not issued until October 23rd. Um so a little over six months after the public hearing was closed. Um so during that time the the owner did proceed with the work um at the site um Dillis and Roy
was on site um prior to construction and and during construction as well. We staked the erosion control barrier. Um the the owner got those in. Uh we st the house. He's been we've been monitoring construction. Um we did not see any signs of erosion when we were out there. Um, so even though the order was not
issued, in in our opinion, the owner has been constructing the site and the site plan in accordance with the order of conditions and the approved site plan. Um, so when the order was issued a week and a half ago, um, uh, Dave went over, picked it up, recorded it the same day,
and had her out there for a site visit um, in which she she noted some things in open gov um that hopefully mirror what I mentioned about the lack of erosion um, on the site. and she did uh observe the erosion control barrier. I think she had a couple of notes about patching that up in a few spots uh which
have been completed already. Um so hopefully um hopefully we're on the right path forward here. But as I mentioned it, it's our opinion that the applicant has been doing everything in accordance with the order even though it wasn't issued. Um so if there's any questions, I'm I'm happy to take questions and and Dave is here as well.
Um, so let me I'm just going to quickly share my screen and and share Harland's notes. >> I actually now I remember which one this is. Um, >> yeah, I can pull up the site plan if that would be helpful. If you need me to.
>> So, well, Zoom just puts everything in front of where I want to look. I don't know why it wants to do that. Okay. Erosion controls were in place including silk fencing, hay bales and straw waddles along the down gradient slope adjacent to the roadway. Some hay
bales were beginning to deteriorate or had shifted slightly and leaves had accumulated in a few areas but overall the controls compared appeared to be functioning as intended. No debris, construction material sediment laid and discharge was noted entering the roadway or nearby drainage structures. Developer was present,
cooperative and responsive and acknowledged the issue. He agreed to be more vigilant during forecasted rain events and to monitor and maintain the erosion controls more frequently. Based on current observations, there was no evidence of sediment or material reaching Hickory Hills Lake and no enforcement action is recommended at
this time. I advise that the following steps be taken. Reinforce, replace, and secure fil silt fencing where needed. Monitor the site before and after rain events. So this is one of her pictures.
And then this is the um the driveway coming down to the road or am I is this the road is down here from >> the road is uh behind us in this photo I believe. >> Okay. So this is Yeah, the road is like kind of right beyond the straw bottle right
here, right? >> Yeah. I think she walked up the driveway a little bit for this photo. Uh, compared to the first one, I think >> that's that I believe that's the proposed well. Um, right in the middle there. >> Okay. Uh, so this is the this is the curb of the road right here.
>> Right. >> So, can you pull up the plan for me? >> Nope. >> Let me stop sharing. >> Madam chair, may I ask a question? >> Yeah. >> So, what is the violation? Is the violation that the construction um
started before the OC was issued or is the violation that the um the erosion control measures weren't being maintained or is it something else? >> So, it's something else. So, I remembered after Ryan started talking about it, somebody actually um put a
complaint into the office that there was um sediment going into the street from the site. So, I actually, this is it's it's terrible that I didn't remember this because I actually drove by it and looked at it like a week ago. Um, I
drove by it that night and it was after we had a significant amount of rain and there was a lot of sediment. Um, the only thing that I noticed that was outside of what the plan called for is I did not see the um erosion blankets
anywhere on site. And are those there now or? >> Um that I don't know. I can defer to Dave. Those I believe were meant as a kind of a final stabilization once those were established. Um >> okay.
Um hold on a second. Let me just make this. >> Hello. I do. >> Hey Ryan, >> so if I can say >> Yeah. >> regards to the erosion blankets that those are supposed to be set in place
once all the constructions completed along the driveway side and on the upper side of the driveway side. >> So it was still in the process of getting the final grades set. that entrance was basically to get the well in um you know the well drilled and be
able to get it tested and and apply for the building permit. So, now that the house is staked out, um we'll be able to make the driveway where it's supposed to be and then the blankets will be installed after that
hopefully before snowflies. But if not, it'll be, you know, immediately in the spring. >> Okay. >> Um that that's the only question that I had about this property. Uh, do we have any other questions from members of the
commission? >> Does that Oh, Mike. >> Yes, Madam Chair. Uh, did I understand that silt is being um is leaving this property every time there's rainfall?
>> So, there definitely was um some sediment leaving the property. It was it was in the road when I drove by. Um it appears that Hurland went out and they're reinforcing their version control measures and they will be more
adamant about reinforcing when there's rain expected. But yeah, there was definitely some sediment going into the road. It was. Yeah, but it was it was not going into the lake. There is a curb across the
street, so it was not making it into the lake. >> Okay. But is it going in the storm drains? >> Most likely, yes. >> Okay. >> I got there after like the day after the rain, so it had dried up. So, you could
just see the like kind of like a a little stream of sediment and then the remainder on the road. I didn't get to see it actively moving toward the storm drains, but just the like the dry strip of it going down the street.
Do we uh with these blankets? Uh, I know the construction isn't finished yet, but uh um are are we to believe that we're going to continue to get infiltration of sediment
during the con the rest of the construction before these blankets are pl are in placed? Is that my understanding or am I getting this >> if I may? Yes. >> Um,
so since that has happened, I've actually dug out the base of the street where we have the stone recharge area. So there was silk built up. We dug that out. We added new stone in uh the last stone the last rainstorm that we had. It
it worked as it as it should. And I also added additional straw water across the driveway midway down the driveway. And then, you know, every night, or not every night, every time before it rains, I added the uh hay bales along the
street to help prevent that. >> Okay. So, it sounds like you have a plan to keep this under control, >> right? Um the night that the sediment that came out it was it was overnight.
So it was the morning when it you know you know when it um ran into the street along the curb. So at at that point I recharged the dugout recharged the lowest point of the driveway. The
driveway is all leaning towards the banking. So it all runs down the inside where there's stone and then the base is all stone as well. >> So is this just a temporary fix or >> No, no. On the on the proposed plan by
Dillson Roy that will be uh a permanent one. So at the point where we're closer to completion, that stone will be dug out or added to to, you know, make up for any, you know, water coming down the hill. There is a plan in place for it
that Dillis Roy has which um he may be able to put on on now to see. >> Yeah, I can uh I can pull that up. So, we did add and I think this this might have even been a a comment from Mass D, but on the uphill side, we had a
stone recharge trench that would intercept a lot of the any runoff coming off the hill um prior to entering the roadway. Um so, this is follows the entire length of the driveway um along the slope. Um, so it sounds like during construction, Dave, just and it sounds like you talked about this with
Herurland, but um, just making sure that those areas are prepped for rain events and um, precautionary measures are taken um, with additional sediment and erosion controls if necessary during construction. >> Thank you, Ryan, and thank you, Madam Chair.
>> Thank you, David. >> All right. Do we have any other questions from members of the commission? Let me pin Mary so I don't miss her. Okay, it does not appear that we do. Um
I actually have never So this is on violations and if we wanted to remove it from violations, do we vote on that? I've never had this happen before. I don't think I guess maybe once, but I
don't remember what we did. There's only one parcel that I can remember coming off of violations. Does it just come off of the agenda for next week or do we have to vote on this? Does anyone have a >> Madam Chair? I don't think we need to
vote on it. Uh I mean there's no there's no enforcement action decision that we would need to vote on. And I think um I mean as as I understand the history uh it's there because of a report right and we asked the applicate to come in and
provide uh status and we have all of that it doesn't seem to be an active violation. It seems like the applicant has taken all the necessary steps to ensure that reasonably ensure that it doesn't happen again. So I don't I I think we can uh you can decide not to
keep it on violations or keep it on violations. I don't think that it requires a vote. >> Just my opinion. >> Thanks, Mary. That sounds good to me. Um, yeah. So, I will just ask the office to remove this from violations moving
forward. And I appreciate uh you being here, Ryan, and also Mr. Vajari being here to so quickly on this and taking action. >> Absolutely. Yep. Thank you. >> Right. Thanks so much. Have a great
night. I think that's it for me. So, I hope you all have a good night. >> Okay. Right. Good night. Right. >> Thank you. Good night. >> Okay. Um I see that we have Jeff Viviano on the meeting. Are you here for just a visit
or is there something that you're waiting for? >> No, I was just visiting. I was just curious with that the construction down the street that's only a few houses down from me and I mean he's been doing a great job and I just wanted to make sure that you know things went smoothly for him. So I mean like I said he's he's
he's a builder. He's been in town for many years and and he does really good work. So I just didn't want you know things I I I would have given my opinion but I didn't really need to. So >> yeah. Oh, is that for T15 Sunset? >> Yes. Yeah. Pari lot. Yep. So >> all right.
>> Yeah. Nice to have you on a meeting again. >> Good, good to hear everybody. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, for um Andrea and Teddy, this was this is Jeff and he was on the commission until you guys joined.
So, >> good to see you. Hear you, Jeff. Hello. >> Exactly. >> All right. Good to good to hear everybody else. Yeah, it's been a while. >> It has. It's It's going by fast, too. Can you believe it's already November? You've been gone for what? Four years.
>> I know then. And Mary's still still on. Good. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm working on it. Don't remind her. We're very sad that she left. >> I saw she wasn't on the meeting earlier. I was like, "Oh, maybe she left." But I thought it was another year.
>> Oh, yeah. Work intervened. The day job intervened. >> Hey Jeff, I was on JetBlue today. So, just want to let you >> Oh, where were you? It was a good experience. a very good experience from Cleveland to Boston. >> Excellent. >> All right. Well, um
>> moving on to new business. Um for topics unknown 48 hours advance of meeting um we had a application for a uh extension on a mass trails grant that
Mary had submitted and um just to keep it on the up and up. I thought that we should have Mary maybe go over it and then we could vote just to approve the extension. Does that make does that sound right, Mary?
>> Yeah, that's right. Thanks. Um, thanks, Madam Chair. So, um, as everybody knows, we have a active grant uh that was granted in uh 2023 from Massachusetts recreational um trails and the grant uh
deadline was is the 31st of December this year. Um and our uh our consultant engineer ran into some challenges uh in the last um third phase of the project that he was
working for us uh which is to um put uh do the you know plan um improvements and also get the per permissions right the um applications uh in place and approvals for improving that access road
down into Cry. And that is the access road that comes off of Towns and Harbor Road um into uh a really lovely wildlife uh viewing platform that's built for uh wheelchair access. Uh anyway, um the
FEMA flood planes um uh you know um the flood plane maps were were issued again this year and that inter you know was an unexpected change. there've been a lot of beaver activity
down there um that has uh kind of um put the road in jeopardy and so the the consultant engineer said that uh he really needed some extra time to figure out some additional options for us down there. We may not be able to accomplish
what we had um or at least the strategy that we originally had for trying to gain, you know, better public access down in that area. Um, I applied for uh an extension uh to through the end of July next year. I
think it's through the end of July. I was just actually trying to call up the >> form to see what um what I had uh confirmed the date. Hang on just a second and I
will get that uh date up. I just want to make certain for the record that I have the uh accurate date on. Yeah. Okay. 71. So I asked for an extension uh to 71 of 2026 which is
consistent with what the consultant engineer had also recommended uh for an extension. We I submitted that it got approved. Uh but now the town manager needs to um sign um the uh revised
contract and and so I thought it would make sense, you know, just in case uh the town manager wants to, you know, be assured that this is with the um you know, following the will of the conservation commission that maybe we should vote to accept that um extension
grant. Does anybody have questions about it? I kind of went through it in a in a blur. I don't have any questions, but I would like to say thank you for staying on top of that and getting that approved because that's amazing.
>> My pleasure. >> Any questions for anybody? Oh, Mary. >> Well, I was just going to say if there are no questions, I don't see anybody like coming off of mute suddenly or raising hands or anything. I'd like to make a motion that we um uh accept the
or approve the uh grant extension and uh and therefore authorize um the chair to ask for a new signature on the contract. >> Second. >> All right, that is Mary with the motion and Chris with the second. Roll call
vote. Christine Germaine >> I. >> Andrea Bernap >> I. >> Teddy Det >> I. Mike Larouche. >> Hi, >> Mary Wilson. >> I >> and I for myself. Um I will just update
the town manager that we voted to move forward with this. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Thank you so much for taking care of that, Mary. Um >> Madam Chair, may I bring up u a topic?
>> Absolutely. Um, we were getting reports of a lot of trees down. Um, small town force is an enormous tree. I guess it has three three branches to it across the trail. Um, also in the lane property, there's been reports of a lot
of trees. Um, there's also we're having a a heck of a wind event tonight, so I'm expecting even more. >> So, I would like um I usually go out and get these uh with my mountain bike. I put a pack on, but with being so many,
I'd like to be able to use a uh tracked ATV because it's a lot of a lot of ground to cover. Um, I don't know how what the process is, but I was wanting to get permission from the commission to
use a track ATV to go out and get these down trees. That would be um between uh the Flaill Orchard and Lake Shirley. It would be the Lane property and the
small town forest and the Cry lot. >> Mary, you have your hand up. Um yeah, just for historical purposes, it's common for the conservation commission to grant uh permission uh for motorized vehicles for the purposes of uh maintenance. Uh which is, you know, the
nature of um Chris's uh requests here. >> Okay. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Mike, you have your hand up. >> Yes, Madam Chair. Um I'm all for uh Chris doing that. I I would just like to know does he have any uh identification
that he could put on his ATV so people don't say hey we can use our ATV now uh on the trails whereas you say no this is for official business >> I think I do but I think it says um >> yeah I I I I'll put something on that is
part of the commission I'll I'll plaque I'll put I'll get a placard on there yeah >> sounds great thank you Chris >> Sure >> awesome thanks Uh, do we have any other questions? All right. Doesn't seem like it. Uh, so would we vote on this?
>> Yes. I would make a motion that we, uh, allow uh, the tracked ATV for the purposes of maintenance. >> Second. >> Okay. Uh, roll call vote. Chris A. Germaine. >> Hi. >> Andrea Vern. >> Hi. >> Teddy Det.
>> Hi. Mike Larouche. >> Hi, >> Mary Wilson. >> Hi. >> And I for myself. All right. Thank you so much for offering to do that, Chris. >> Sure. My pleasure. >> Yeah. So, does somebody go out and help you or do you just go out and do that by
yourself? And >> um it depends. If it's small stuff, I go by myself. I think this time I'll have somebody with me. Um there there'll be probably um the Lunberg Snow Riders are very generous about helping out. So I'll probably reach out to either a member of
them or a neighbor, but for the bigger stuff, I'd like to have help. >> Okay. Yeah. >> And Chris, will you bring a cell phone? >> Yeah, I do. Okay, good. >> Okay. All right. Well, thank you so
much, Chris. That's awesome. Y Um, okay. So, that's the only other I don't have anything else. Topics unknown. Anyone else have anything they want to We never have any and now we had two.
>> Okay. Um, forest cutting plan. I I was trying to do all my prep work and we have a forest cutting plan for Flatill Road and um I did not look at that. Is that different than the last one we talked about?
>> I think it is. Huh? >> It's the same. It's the same. >> Is it the same? >> Yeah. Why it was on there? >> Oh, okay. >> All right, man. All right. What would I do without you guys? Okay,
moving on from that one then. Um, the next thing is I had Michael put this on the bylaw discussion. Um, Jen Warren, who's the town manager, reached out and said that there is a bylaw committee forming and they would like it if the
conservation commission of all of the boards and commissions in town had the members look at their bylaws and submit any suggestions or comments or anything that they had to or that they wanted to
see to this commission. Um, so this is me bringing it up. Um hopefully if everybody can maybe take a look at our bylaws or if you have anything. I was really hoping for Rich to be here and see what he had to say about that. Um
Teddy. >> Yes. >> Yeah. At our um conservation commission conference the other week. Uh Mike and I were at this open space residential design um seminar
where um one sec. Can I have permission to share my screen? >> Sure. >> I'm taking notes. um where they talked about uh when they have like residential
development, they allocate a certain amount of land to be conserved and protected as open space. Um, and they generally keep the same number of units,
but they put them on smaller lots and put them in more compact uh, areas. And so like the top picture and the bottom picture theoretically have the same number of units but smaller lot sizes on the bottom. And
then the open space is for like public use and like protection of natural resources. Um, so this is something that I would like to incorporate in our bylaws. Um, they're telling us that in Actton
they have open space residential design as the um like the standard and then anything outside of that needs special permitting. >> Okay. Um, so that was just the one thing that
I wanted to bring to the bylaw. >> There's I work in Actton and I I drive by two new projects that are going up on Route 27 every week. So, I'm going to look at them a little bit harder and see what's going on in them. Uh, Mary, you have your hand up.
>> I Yeah. Um, I don't know if that's a conservation commission >> or open >> jurisdictional something. Yeah, I think it might be like once the area is defined as having a conservation restriction on it, then I think it's our
jurisdiction. But requiring that it become a conservation a conserved area and that that's allowed in the planning I I think is not um a conservation jurisdictional concern. It it would be a
good thing maybe Jenny to ask um the town manager. I think she would be all over that. Yeah, see have maybe see how other towns are doing that or what boards they're using to do. >> That's a good point and I was going to
bring this up at my next um >> master plan. Yeah. >> Yeah. master plan meeting. Um because I think this kind of goes hand inhand with our um master plan and like uh building like new sorts of housing
areas as well as protecting like farmland and nature. >> Um yeah, and I think that some towns do things differently. Like some towns don't have an open space committee and
conservation oversees open space. Um we have open space but our open space as of right now Chris could speak to this better than I can. Open space is more of a >> advisor >> what >> advisory role.
>> Yeah they're um they're planning they're heading talks of changing that. Um they they're we're going to we're going to the planning board I think I think I'm not sure the planning I'm sorry the select board next week our um our chair
um I think he's going next week to talk about changing it to be not advisory so that would be um a change significant change >> yeah cool um I know another thing that I've heard heard some and I think Andrea I heard
this from you is the community preservation act >> right yeah I attended that um that session and found it very interesting um I I may attempt to share my screen I've
never done this before so I don't know if you could lead me through that >> yeah so at at the bottom of your screen you should have a little green arrow pointing up um that says share And you might have to like kind of drag your mouse down toward the bottom and
hover for it to come up because sometimes it hides itself. Are you on Yep, you got it. There you go. Did you Were you already like queued up for this?
>> Well, yeah, I did um pull up the image. Um, I just found this one image pretty interesting because I don't know if you can how well you can see it. Um, but the green is towns that have adopted the CPA, the community um, is it
preservation or >> yeah, >> protection act. And um, we're that pink that I tried to make a pink dot. That's Lunenburgg. So, we're kind of on the western edge of quite a big block of
green. Excuse me. And um I just thought, you know, why don't we be part of that? I don't know. Um I'm not sure if, you know, how much discussion there has been in the town about the Community Preservation Act, but and you know, they
were obviously very um uh positive about it because they were trying to promote it. Um but just the benefits that that towns have have found and you know the additional funds that they've been able to use because they have been part of
the program. So I I I think I'm going to try to look into that more. >> Yeah, that'd be great. Do you want to um give a little overview of what the community preservation act is anybody familiar with this on the commission? They talk
about it a lot in um at the convent at the conferences. I always want to call them conventions. Um Teddy, you had your hand up. >> Yeah, just looking at it now, it says uh the Community Preservation Act is a smart growth tool that helps communities preserve open space and historic sites,
create affordable housing, and develop outdoor recreational recreational facilities, which also sounds to go handinhand with our um master plan. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> So Oh, sorry. >> Thank Thank you, Teddy. I I was trying
to pull it up, but um yeah, that that sums it up. >> Yeah. and the the I'm not fully uh read in on it, but my understanding is that communities that are in the community
preservation act can there's um funding set aside for stuff like that through the state, >> right? Yes. Uhuh. >> Yeah. It's not a lot of funding, you know, but it's something. Well, that might um it might not be hard to um
persuade the town to um lean into this because um we're one of the towns that are obligated for housing because we're near um a commuter rail. >> So, um if we have to do community housing, it'd be nice to get a bump from
this from this um from the CPA if we have to do housing anyways. and every, like you said, every little bit helps. So, it might be that might be a way to um uh get people behind it. >> Yeah. And I feel like this probably
again uh especially with open space becoming more going more under the become maybe becoming advisory, this may follow follow more under the open space uh designation
than conservation. But it is something I mean they talk about it. I I think I've heard it mentioned in almost every class that I've taken through uh oh my what is it called? What's the um Mac? That's what they are.
>> Yeah, that's interesting. >> Yeah. Know definitely it comes up in 101. Um everyone I've taken 101 I think I've taken 101 twice now maybe three times. Um, and it comes up when I take those little classes that are about different
things like Westboro. I took DPW Westboro. I went to a talk by them at the last conference and um, he talked about it and then they talked about it actually in my last class which I forget
what that was for but it comes up a lot. Um, as far as, you know, our bylaws, I know Andrea and Teddy, you guys are new. I don't know that you've fully memorized our bylaws. I know I haven't. Um, so I
don't think anybody has, but I I would love for, you know, if people have time to, you know, if there's anything that you would think that you'd like to see change in specifically the conservation bylaws. Um,
you know, if we go through them, I think that one thing was maybe our fee structure. Yeah, I I I definitely think that uh so the the fees for the application fees are actually in the >> in the regulation, the wetland
regulation um municipal regulation, but the bylaws uh have a consulting fee structure that just kind of, you know, first first blush to me seems a little bit outdated with current um you
rates because I think uh up to 100 a project up to $100,000 the max that we can charge and this would be like if we had to hire an administrator and you know because we couldn't get a a u you know
interim administrator but for a project up to $100,000 uh you can only uh charge the applicant $500 and you know that's two hours of wetland on consulting time. >> Very little.
>> That's not much. And you can move a lot of earth in a with a $100,000 project. >> Yeah. >> So, I think that that bears looking at >> Definitely. Um, anything else at the top of your
head that you'd like to see looked at? Um I think let's be uh get clarity because I I think the way the you know and this is a little bit kind of outside my wheelhouse but I think um
I would like to be clear on whether whether the bylaw uh you know workg group is just going to be I think they're just going to be looking on the municipal wetland bylaw and not
the wetland regulation even though the wetland regulation also shows up in the e-code, but it'd be nice to have clarity on that as well. >> All right, I will >> the wetland regulation I think is actually called the wetland regulation and the um bylaw
I think is called the bylaw. Okay, let me um I will get clarification from Denim then and also let me just so the notice that I received is um all
boards, committees and commissions from the bylaw review committee bylaw review info needed. Select board has appointed a bylaw review committee to renew to re review and revise the town of Lunenberg's bylaws and both agree with the charter to both agree with the
charter and to reflect current practice in each of your department's committees. Um it does not say anything about regulations. Fil committee is now meeting and beginning the task of re of review and revision. In order for us to do this task efficiently, we need your input over the next few months. The
committee is asking that each of you review the section of bylaws that pertain to your responsibilities. If you think something needs tweaking, should be eliminated, or even added, let us know. It'd be helpful if you could submit your comments to us by December 1st, 2025.
>> Okay. So, we have one more meeting. >> Do we have one more meeting? And it says it would be helpful if you could submit your comments. So, I was thinking if we Yeah, we have we technically have one more meeting, but the next meeting after that is um
December 3rd. So, if I were to submit anything on December 4th, it may not be the end of the world. Um or even, you know, and I could, you know, if we if we're coming up with some things, I could definitely let Jen know that we have some things that we're
discussing. And um >> well and it's not um uh as I understand the way you've put it um madam chair is that uh we can highlight things that maybe are concern they're not necessarily actionable.
Is that is that right? I mean >> that's >> so maybe any one commissioner could bring up something that's a concern but before it would be changed the commission would have like some input and and the ability to arbitrate one way
or the other. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Maybe just confirm that too. >> Yeah. Let me I'm going to check with her. >> Okay. >> I'll come back with questions. That's why I wanted to make sure that we talked about it. It's because um and see what questions we have and
not just what we're thinking about doing, but definitely get any input from the commission with questions, concerns. Um, for your reference, um, and for the record, the, uh, consulting fee is, um,
section 239-4 and, uh, set forth in section E5. It'll be in the recording, so it'll right there. >> Okay. >> Thank you.
Do we have any other questions about this? Okay. >> Just um for everybody's um edification, Madam Chair, too, the consulting fee is different than peer review fee.
>> Yes. Um because the peerreview fee is paid by the applicant and the consulting fee. Yeah. >> And I guess this is also >> what this would be paid by us. This is this is us consulting having somebody
come in work with our office and we're paying them >> charging. Yeah. So they're reimbursing us, right? That's the way I think it works is they're reimbursing us. Whereas for the consulting for the third for the peer review, there's actually an escrow
account and the money goes in that escrow account and then to the we only hold it. >> Thank you, Mary. Okay. So, any other questions, concerns about that? Nope. Okay. Um, the other thing I added,
uh, under I put it under new business. I don't know really nowhere else to put it is, you know, uh, three of four of us went to the MAC training. We actually had a quorum, so we'd be very careful. We didn't take it, we didn't have a quorum
in any of the meetings. Um, and I just wanted to see if anyone had anything that they wanted to share that they learned at the trainings that they thought was interesting that they thought weren't interesting. Um, like we just talked about the open space residential design. A lot of stuff comes
up about the community preservation act. Um, is there anything else interesting that anyone wanted to educate the commission on or share with the commission for our
education? Teddy, >> uh, I went to environmentally responsible landscaping, which, uh, is right in my wheelhouse. I was very excited to go to that one. Um,
and this was like a fun fact that they had that lawns make up 40 million acres of just monocultural turf grass. I believe this was in the US, which provides no e ecosystem value.
Um, and one of my when I get up on my soap box, I try to discourage people from uh having a monoulture green grass lawn and planting more native species because there's just many benefits to
our environment as well as like storm water management. Having like deeper roots alone um allows for like more like water infiltration during storms. Um, and I could go on and on about
environmentally responsible landscaping, but I just kind of wanted to say the the thing about lawns. Yeah, I think that I think we're all Yeah, I think I mean I know I agree with you there and I we you know do require uh native plantings
when people come before us and they're doing either a a wetland replication or they're, you know, reveating. Um, >> yeah, I was very happy with everything that Ryan had brought up, like all the native plantings that he brought up during his presentations.
>> Yeah, they always have the native plants on their plans. >> Mary, >> we as a commission, I think, usually um ask for all native plants, but is that legally required? Well, I don't know. Is
that required in our >> regulation? There is I don't think it's required in our regulation because I actually looked for it. I do know um on that little pamphlet that we have that the things that don't require a permit. It's like if you're if you're planting
something native in the buffer zone that's not that's okay. Um but I don't know that it's required. But I know that we have in in my experience being on the commission and very happy about it. I've never seen us not require. >> Well, that but that means it's
discretionary and not not required. >> Yeah. >> If it's not part of the law, that means it's uh the will of the current sit commission. >> That's true. >> Um Chris, you have your hand up. >> Yeah. Pet peeve of mine is the is the
perfect manic manicured lawns right on the edge of a lake. I mean >> Oh my gosh. Yes. Are you talking about Whamm? >> I'm talking about any lake and >> Okay. >> Yeah. Just uh you know when I used to I'll get I'll get off this soap box as
well, but I used to I used to canoe the Saco River >> and um right along the river are farmlands and all their all their potassium nitrate fertilizer just turn that turn that parts of that Saco River to to weeds. And I can't I I'd have to
believe that some of the some of the weed issues in Shirley, for example, I've been I've swam in there. It's got to be some of it is I would imagine is due to um fertilizer runoff. So >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's I always, you know, you
see those perfectly manicured lawns and they're just like a slope. It's not even like they're flat. A lot of times they're just like a slope straight into the lake. >> Yep. So whenever it rains, just no vegetation on the ends and you know. Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> So I am with you, Teddy. It sounds like Chris is too. I know Mike is now. It's just a recommendation that properties along uh wetlands not to use phosphates
um fertilizers. It's there's no regulation. And it's just a recommendation. Is that >> that is Yeah, I mean that's my understanding. We have I think it's in our pamphlet, you know, kind of recommending not to do it. Um, you know,
and it's just kind of recommended across the board now by pretty much everybody not to do that. But there's nothing actually preventing people from doing it. I know. And and the thing is, I
think a lot of people who are doing that to their lawns are not doing it thinking that these chemicals are going to end up in their legs. They they care about the lake. They live on the lake. I just don't think that they know any better. And some of that I think is really more
of an education thing than uh you know, somebody trying to make weeds in the lake. that you know there's I'd love to do some educational campaigns especially for oh Mary
>> yeah educational campaigns which is not related to MACC so I apologize but you know we had a goal um that we were ne never quite um able to execute on uh you know uh when when we had our previous administrator to
actually get that brochure printed out and stuffed into all of the tax um you know flyers once a year or the tax bills once a year to remind everybody that we have these regulations and to remind people that they have to get
permits for stuff, >> right? Because we still run into a lot of people who just go, "Oh, I don't I don't know." Right? And we ran into somebody this weekend on a sidewalk who had cut down some trees that, you know, she said had had been damaged in a
storm, right? But she still was obligated to get uh you know, at least an administrative um determination to cut them down. And she said, "Oh, I didn't know it. It would be nice if once the office gets, you know, kind of more fully operational if we could get that
queued back up. I think it's an important thing." Yeah, definitely. It's actually always on my mind. And you say it doesn't relate to Mac, but that was actually in one of my classes. That's one of the things they brought up is that you're always your strongest
um action is going to be education because, you know, the vast majority of people are not trying to to do something that's bad for the environment. They just don't know better. And you can counteract that with education rather than having and you can be proactive
rather than reactive. So I am I would love to get that going. I actually remember that that was kind of fizzling out as I first came on. Mike. >> Yes, Madam Chair. I was just wondering
uh has anyone gotten a copy of the slides of any of the presentations you may have attended at the Matt conference? Uh, now I have not. So, I wasn't sure if I had the wrong >> given the wrong email address or
>> I did get them. I I got an email um with a link which actually took me to everything, not just the sessions. >> Oh, >> I believe I they're listed anyway. I haven't tried links other than the um classes that I took, but I did get an email. It was um
>> Is this on Outlook? Um, yes. It was from um is it Paige Butler? I think >> Paige um was it Ber? Yeah, Buller. >> Okay. And um I think it was on the 31st. It was not too long ago. >> Oh, here it is. I I got one with the
slides for my I took the like getting out of a meeting quickly. Not getting out of a meeting quickly, but you know the >> um >> Well, I will check that again. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Andrea. Yeah, it is in my email. So, so Teddy
had he had quickly put a no on and now I went and looked at my email and then I came back and it's changed to Yes. >> Yeah. >> I I just noticed that it's that it's there. >> Okay. >> But I had the same thought, Mike. I was like
>> excited to see them and um but yeah, they're they're there now. >> Yeah. >> Since Halloween. And um you know we can add some of the add the ones that we took to the drive
or any of them really for anyone to look at in >> Yeah. I thought that was exciting >> folder. Yeah. >> And I just wanted to add also madam chair that I really appreciate having the opportunity to go to that. I I thought it was very valuable.
>> Awesome. I'm so happy that every we had so many people. It was really exciting. I think those classes are absolutely fabulous. I mean, I I' I've taken some of them I've taken >> one of them I've taken well a couple of them I've taken three times and I learn something every time.
>> And then with the fundamentals classes, if you retake them, they're only $15 and you don't pay for them. The office pays for >> I think I think all of the ones that are virtual, they're only $15 if you retake them. Yes, that's the Well, I think Yeah, I mean that's I think all the ones that are
virtual are the Are they not all considered fundamentals? Is that the like the two levels are not? >> Oh, I don't know. You might be right. >> I think they're all fundamentals, but you don't get the certificate unless you take 101 through 105 and then three of the two levels, then you get the
fundamental certificate. Um, so which is a, you know, put that on your your bucket list. Anybody if you want to get a fundamental certificate. >> I have a certificate. >> So do I.
Two out of I think I think Mike's going to end up getting one maybe. Oh, that reminds me actually while we're talking about Mac, there are there's a class coming up that I thought um I signed up for it. I'm not sure if
anyone else did. Um there is oh it's Monday, November 17th, fundamentals unit 103 and it's plan review and site visit procedures. So I took it right when I first joined and I'm taking it again. Um it's virtual but
I think that that might be beneficial for anybody who's interested. If you if you are interested um I can let the office know. >> When is it? Monday, November 17th, and it's all about looking at plans and how
to be good at site visits. >> Okay. >> I I like the sound of that. >> Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, if you're interested, just let me know and I'll I'll let the office know that you're interested and get us signed up. Um
although, if we have more than four, if we have more than three, is that a quorum? You don't get to talk or deliberate in the meetings. >> That's true. Okay. >> I Yeah. So, >> okay.
>> I I think that's a that's a key something. Um so, it's not it's not really like you're >> just observing >> have four people meeting for coffee that that might be a problem, right? But yeah, you're just um on mute and not,
you know, you're just able to u intake the information. >> Yeah. Okay, that makes sense to me. So, yeah, I think that's a good one. Um, we also there's also on
Wednesday, November 19th, which is the night of our meeting, but I would say that um, you know, sometimes it's better. I think the educated commissioner is a good commissioner. So, if somebody was interested in taking it, it's the
buffer. It's fundamentals unit 208. So, it's a two level. Um, it's buffer zones considering the science while applying the regulations and that is on a meeting night. >> I thought that was a great class, too. >> Yeah. And then now they're showing
Thursday, January 29th, 2026, which feels like a really long time from now, but it's going to be here quickly. Um, effective erosion and sediment control, which I'm going to take because, um, I'm curious. I hear that there's there's new
things happening in the exciting world of erosion control. So, I'm going to take that one. Do we have any other Mac takeaways? >> Well, I I'm curious if there were any epiphies at the um you know, efficient
um meetings class. >> Honestly, there wasn't. I I found that we I don't somebody must have taken this class because uh we're do we were doing all the things that they recommended.
So um we actually did a a mock I don't I know you've taken this one Mary and I wonder if you implemented some of this stuff. We did a mock meeting and um some of the problems we haven't had in my experience which is well we've had it
once well once per one person but where people just talk and talk and talk and talk and then you have to cut them off. Um that doesn't really happen in meetings in my experience. That was the big thing that they talked about how to just kind of take control of that situation and and try to be effective. I
don't I haven't had to have that experience much. So hopefully I'll I'll be better at that as that goes on. But um the a lot of it was
um so we did a little mock meeting where we did it in a like as a bad meeting. So like the the engineer didn't know anything and the the people in town just kept interrupting and it was just we
don't really have a lot of the issues that they came up with but you know big thing was having a good agenda for the most part we have a good agenda. Um the yeah it was a lot of the problems that other people were having I couldn't
relate to. I was really surprised because I went in there and I was like, "Oh, wow. We're pretty organized compared to other towns." So yeah, that was my big takeaway was actually that our meetings
feel pretty um on point compared to some of the issues that I was hearing from other towns, which is where people in town will they I guess a lot of other towns have people that come to the conservation commission
meetings constantly and just kind of like we have at the select board here um and just want to talk at the beginning of every conservation or they'll they'll interrupt hearings and >> I was we don't really have that here. So, a lot of it was geared toward
dealing with that kind of stuff. >> I was going to say this meeting went by pretty quick, like relatively quickly. >> Yeah. Um, one thing that helped with this meeting is the the engineer that we had in a lot of our hearings is typically uh
the plans are really good. They're colorcoded. Um, you know, good engine the engineers are prepared. >> That's really that's really helpful. I think that a lot of times Oh, that was the other thing. But we've been working on this. Thank you, Mary. Um, and thank you Teddy for bringing my brain back
into focus. The big thing for an effective meeting is to have so much of the stuff taken care of before you even get to the meeting. Um so having somebody look at the plan, make sure that the erosion controls are
there, the stock piles are there, um that it's filed correctly. You know how we had a couple that came in as RDA as um cons administrative determinations that really should have been RDAs or NOIs? So now our, you know, our office, we have a we have a pretty limited
staffing in our office right now, but they're they're watching and making sure that when things are coming in that they're coming in as the appropriate application type so that they're not coming in and we're saying, "Oh, hey, why are you here for this? You should
actually be here for this." And then, you know, it wastes their time. It wastes our time. Um, so a lot that's to say like a lot of the stuff that they talked about is stuff that we're actually working on though and that we're implementing. And I think we're doing a pretty good job considering the fact that we have like 20 hours in the
office total. >> I think they're doing a great job considering it's total of 20 hours. It's it's better than, >> you know, previous. >> Uh, so I'm I'm really pleased with that. Once once we get >> a full-time person again, I think it'll
be really good. Um particularly, you know, uh if we can, you know, grow with that administrator and kind of coach them, you know, and they're able to to onboard, >> you know, recommendations, uh because the bylaw does give us the discretion to
reject any application that's incomplete, >> right? And that is that's another important thing that they had talked about, but we already have that. um you know and if application is not complete it shouldn't be getting to it shouldn't be getting on a meeting because it's
really wasting their time and if they're paying for an engineer they're paying for that engineer's time and that it's wasting their money it's wast you know it's wasting our time it's wasting the people who are on the meeting waiting for a meeting's time um or hearing I mean so there's there's so many benefits
to getting a lot of this stuff handled before it even gets to us. And I'm trying to pay more attention to the things that are in there so that I can kind of try to see if there's anything that I'm picking on up on that might need to be
looked at before it gets to us. And I think that um you know, I think we're getting better at that every meeting. So yeah, that was that was a big takeaway and that is something that we're working on. But I think we we seemed like we were in a we're in a
pretty good place compared to some of the stuff that I was hearing from other towns, which was not what I was expecting when I went when I went into it because I was really expecting to like come away with all this stuff and I was like, "Oh, we're doing a lot of this already. Cool."
So, so that was my takeaway. Um, and my other takeaways were at the Westboro DPW. I took a class that was um by the director, the assistant director
of the Westboro DPW, and and it isn't it didn't fully feel like conservation, but it did. Um, but they have like a a plan. Every time they know there's going to be a rain event, they go out. He imple He gets their parks commission, their sewer
commission, all of all of the different stakeholders in all of the different places to go out and make sure all their coverts are clear before a storm, after a storm. Like he knows where all the and it was just very
um really well managed over there, you know, >> they must have a lot of retired volunteers that can just take off and go do that. Um, they have I think they just have a lot of staff. It's >> Oh, I thought you said commissioners.
>> No, did I say commissioners? I meant No, just their their parks committee. Not their committee. I guess their parks employees. So, the parks, the sewer department, the um all of those departments that kind of fall under
maybe like land use of some sort. They involve all of them whenever they know that there's going to be some sort of like rain event. They go out make sure clovers are clear like they have them all mapped out. They one person will have so many for 3
months then they'll switch over to the next ones. They'll do like a download with the person who had it for the three months before so that everybody kind of gets familiar with all the places in town that can be problem areas. And I'm sure like I haven't talked to Bill yet. I'm sure he does a lot of this stuff,
too. But I thought that was really interesting. Um, I used to live in Westboro like a long time ago and uh I didn't realize they had so many culverts and so many things, but yeah, I thought that was interesting.
Anyone else? All right, I think I'm going to move on to old business conservation budget. Um, I did ask for the budget um for the some of the funds that we have. You know, our budget is combined with the land use budget now.
So, a lot of the line items in the budgets are things that we're sharing with land use, which is um building, planning, conservation. I think that's it. Um,
but I did I heard back about the timber rights fund, which is um it was 8575 when they got back to me. Um, but then we voted to put $2,000 toward the Mackie PO. So
now we have 6575 in the timber rights fund. And then they didn't give me hos, which is the um Hollis property. So I'm not sure. I have to I had to ask about that one. So I'll know that one maybe at the next meeting.
Uh, do we have any questions or comments about that? Are there any that I'm missing? Because I asked for the I asked for what our you know what's happening in our accounts and all I got back was timber rates but
I know that we also have haw so I feel like that was left off. Am I missing any other ones or is that >> should have three? >> What's the third one? Um, and I don't know what it's called, but we have a um we have a uh we're the beneficiary of and it was
conservation commission specifically, not the town uh beneficiary of a um of an estate uh sale um two years ago somewhere in the neighborhood of $800,000, $835,000,
something like that. >> Have we We don't want to. No. >> Okay. >> We we discussed as a commission um you know non-binding but we discussed as a commission at the time that we should
set that aside for um acquisition of uh you know future conservation lands. >> Yep. Makes sense. All right. >> We want to make certain that doesn't get lost somewhere. >> Oh yeah, 100%. I'm going to
>> I can probably look up what the uh what the name of the uh state was. It's like right at the tip of my edge of my memory and I just can't grab hold of it. >> I feel like that must have been I don't recall this
is that I feel it must have been it must have happened before I joined. I'm assuming that we've spoken about it >> in a meeting that I've been in, but >> I just wasn't fully in tune. I'm guessing,
>> Madam Chair, what was the number on the timber rights fund? >> Um 6575. We had just we had just voted to put 2,000 toward the MAC EPO. I remember the hos fund being at around $40,000.
>> Yeah. The last time we had an update on it, it was at $36,900. >> Okay. >> Um I went and looked back at the history. Uh but I don't know what it is now. I would assume as far as I know. I know we've I think after that we voted
to get the lawn mower. >> Okay. Maybe. And then get the string trimmer. Well, and I think the recent repairs, too, that we had to do, uh, >> we did some painting this year. >> Yeah. So, I'm going to guess it's a
little bit lower than 36,900. >> Yeah. I think we had to replace an oil tank. We had to get an electrician out there that I don't remember if we had to pay for or not. >> We just replace it was a replacement and that could have been >> that could have been close to $5,000.
And I I thought there was a third something associated with that too, but I I can't really remember. >> I think there was some nominal electrical emergency items like just attach a cover that was in the basement.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I But I thought that inspection yielded three actionable items. >> I remember the electrical panel needed a cover. The light needed to be fixed, which we never ended up fixing because we had never got in for that. The oil tank
needed to be replaced, >> right? >> I think were those the three things >> maybe. >> Yes, I think so. >> And um so the only thing that's outstanding is the light that was dangling, which we never were able to get in for, but we will be able to,
>> right, >> soon. Um, and yeah, so I think you we just have a couple of lawn things that we had purchased and some home repairs that could be a
significant chunk out of it. I will have that number for the next meeting and I will um get the that third account balance and make sure that it is accurately notated as conservation
commission funds. >> Um Madam Chair, the um the estate fund that I was talking about was the estate of Sean H. Kelly and that's Kelly I think spelled uh ke ly. >> Okay. And is that S h a n or s h a w n
or s e n? >> S h a w n. >> Okay. Okay. I have never heard that name before. So I feel like maybe this has never come up while I've been on the commission because that is just
absolutely foreign to me. But who knows? I will definitely get the get an update on that though. Um, we don't have any encroachment issues that I'm aware of at least not any that we have
um put on paper for a meeting. Uh, open space and land use. No updates as far as the commission business goes, but we will get a report during the committee reports if there are any. >> Madam chair, may I ask a question?
>> Oh, yeah. >> What is that intended to entail? Because we have open space committee report down below. >> I don't know. >> In a conservation commission kind of um perspective, like I didn't know what those topics were. >> I don't either. Sometimes I feel like
maybe something's always been there so I just don't question it. I don't even know if it's always been there though. Um >> maybe maybe it's like a artifact from when we switched over to the new format. >> Maybe. >> But if we don't know what's supposed to go there, then maybe it should go away. >> Yeah, I just I put a big cross through
it and I'll I'll Mike will hear it in when he watches the meeting, but I'll also send him a message. Um Palace Road residents, there are we'll have more updates on that soon as far as the residence goes. Um, as far as
that whole property goes, the North County Land Trust is going to walk the property with Mike and I on Friday for the conservation restriction um, check-in. Uh, >> do we have to prepare a report for
Emily? Um, I remember in the past, um, when it was brought up, um, I was told we weren't going to do that. So, I'm just one, I guess, are we still not doing a report?
>> I, um, was not informed that there would be a report. I'm really hoping that there's not because, uh, you know, I go to work and then I come home and then I have dinner and then I go to bed. Okay. >> And uh I don't have time to create a
report between now and Friday at 10:00 a.m. >> All right. >> If it was Monday, I could do something on the weekend, but I don't I hope that she's not expecting a report because I will get an F on that if she is. >> Okay. >> Um yeah, I can check in with her and see
if there's anything. She didn't mention anything in her email. >> Okay. Um >> maybe she's used to the fact that we don't provide reports so she's probably not expecting >> is low with us is >> right. Okay.
>> Okay. Um so yeah does uh I'm going to move on to committee reports. Um the master plan steering committee Teddy do you have any updates there? Yeah. So, on um the
30th and the 31st, they went on um I'm just finding these emails now, honestly. They went on some building tours. Last time we went had uh a meeting. They were talking about the like project priorities that they had.
Um the top three I believe are the TC Pacio's roof, the Ritter building, and the town hall. Yeah. >> Um >> listen to be recurring themes. >> Yeah. Uh and
um yeah, I don't I don't have many updates. I wasn't able to go on the tours, unfortunately. I wish I I had, but um I had my wedding that on the on the 31st, so I was kind of busy. And congratulations. >> Yes. Congratulations, Danny.
>> Oh, yeah. That's Yes. Congratulations. That's a big deal, baby. >> Yeah, it was it was pretty fun. I I had a good time. Um and uh yeah, I'm just looking forward to going to the next meeting. I'm going to bring up the
open space residential design as well as I've been taking a lot of notes on the uh environmentally responsible landscaping sort of stuff that I want to bring up because that's kind of a a cheap thing
that I think we can start doing. You know, the old verbiage um the best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago and the second best time is today. So, I think it would be cool to get some more ecologically
uh responsible landscaping in our like public spaces. Um, that's something I would like to incorporate into our master plan as we want to like uh make our town more
um supportive of like community gathering spaces and uh protecting farmland and whatnot. >> Um, but yeah, I don't really have a whole lot just yet, but I will next uh next meeting. Well, I mean a whole lot
other than you're married. >> Yeah, big deal. That's a big update. >> Yeah. >> So, okay. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Open space. Chris, do you have any updates from Open Space other than the big one you just let us know
about? >> No, that's it. We have another meeting coming up next week. Not sure if I'm going to be able to make that one, but um if I do, I'll give you an update if there is one. >> Okay, great. Um, storm water. We have not met since the last meeting because
uh this will there will be a presentation by Bill Bernard from the DPW at the special town meeting which is on November 18th at 700 p.m. if anybody is
interested. That is an in-person meeting. Um I've never been to one so this will be my first but I will be there. Um, we have there are some there's an item I'm still I haven't seen
I guess that the the what's the word I'm looking for the not the agenda um the town warrant the special town warrant is that what they call it was just released the other day that might show an agenda for this work this is this is very new for me special town meetings are not
something that I have any experience with so I'm excited to learn about it but um on the on the town warrant there is uh going to be some stuff about how our office is going to function. Um changing
our the staff in our office are are what we're calling our administrator right now. um I think would become more of an agent role and would move from the clerical union to the salary administrative plan
which would make it a little bit more of an attractive position. So, um that's something that's going to be coming up in the special town meeting and so I will be there to watch for that and also every other stuff because that's important to participate in local
politics. Um so yeah but we we're not meeting because that's happening and then we'll meet our next meeting is in December. Um so bylaw review committee was just put there accidentally and we already spoke about it in the new
business and um I'm going to say communications public comment. Do we have any communications from any members of the commission? All right. And I don't think we have any public comment because there's no
members of the public here. So, upcoming meeting schedule. Our next meeting is on November 19th at 700 p.m. on Zoom. Uh, does anyone else have anything they'd like to
add before I look for a motion to adjurnn? Okay, then I would be looking for a motion to adjurnn at 9:32 p.m. on November 5th, 2025. I almost said 2023. >> So moved. >> So moved. Second.
>> All right. That is Mike with the motion and Mary with the second. Roll call vote. Christine Germaine. >> I. >> Andrea Bernat. >> I. >> Teddy Det. >> I. >> Mike Larouche. >> I. >> Mary Wilson.
>> Hi. And I for myself. All right. And Mary, your background was the snow. And I was not ready for that yet. I just wanted to wanted to wait till I was meaning to say that, but I was like, "Oh, we're not no snow." It is going to snow. I heard next week though,
maybe a little bit. >> Cool. >> Yeah. So, not enough for snowmobiling, though. Sorry to disappoint. >> Washington's getting 16 inches tonight or tomorrow night, just so you know. Oh, I heard I saw that somebody was skiing
at J Peak the other day. They their backount ski. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um so it's happening. >> Yeah. That's I'm not ready yet. I I the leaves just fell. >> Um I love the winter, don't get me wrong, but I'm not ready for full winter
yet. All right. Well, everybody, have a good night. >> Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Bye. Bye.