##VIDEO ID:hH-dAWkRKAU## as a host because the host ising the cloud okay try again because I got I got the uh popup window um to permit and I thought I permitted but I mean maybe I just you know clicked the wrong thing too well now it's showing that it's giving me the option to pause or stop the recording so to me that looks like it's working now hopefully hopefully well very good we will proceed then I'm going to read into this read the script um so uh welcome everyone uh tonight is the uh lunenberg Conservation Commission uh meeting of November 6th uh we are holding this meeting by Zoom uh remote and in accordance with the requirements of the open meetings law please be advised that this meeting is being audio and video recorded the agenda lists all of the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and those that are reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed may be in fact discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law please address all comments to the chair uh that is me Mary Wilson uh this meeting of the Conservation Commission will be held by Zoom at the the link provided in the notice which is the agenda that is posted online our meeting ID is 875 2621 4314 and of course uh if you do go and uh download the agenda you can just click on the uh Zoom link uh that makes it easier for all concerned I will start out with a uh roll call Jenny present uh rich I didn't see Rich come in uh Jeff uh notified me that he's going to be out he is out of the country Mike pres Chris pres very good thank you so do we have any Announcement by members of the commission and I am not seeing any and uh so now we have a moment for public comment uh please note that comments are limited to three minutes and must be on a subject matter that's under the direct uh jurisdiction of the commission comments about current agenda items are to be made during the comment period of that specific agenda item uh and of course uh please address all comments to the chair and if you do have comments uh at any time uh start out by introducing yourself with your name and your address uh Bruce you're holding your hand up I am good evening my name is Bruce ringwall from GPR Goldsmith press ringwell and I would love to request a couple minutes of your time um my former associate Nick Pauling um an engineer who been before you multiple times for his own property as well as presenting other uh notices of intent in lunenberg um unfortunately passed away this past summer and and um I would like to share my screen if I may for a quick discussion relative to his property uh hang on6 Reservoir Road okay uh I think I allowed you to share okay uh nope sharing is not turned on okay let me send a request I just sent you a request okay and what is Nick address 586 Reservoir Road 586 Reservoir Road okay okay uh y thank you it's letting me share now oh I lost you guys though um let me see here let's get you folks back there we go okay um so and Bruce if if you would please maybe just tell us what you want to accomplish with this uh with his commentary right so I can make certain that I've got you in the right uh place and that we're actually able to talk about it during this meeting okay so in May 18th of 2022 Nick Pauling filed an RDA and was heard on your agenda on May 18th well he filed it in April he was heard on your agenda in May 18th um and the commission uh voted to uh give him a negative3 determination uh unanimous vote um I believe you made comment in the minutes that you Richard and NM I'm not sure who NM was um we're all on the site uh previously and um that was for this Red Barn this red garage proposed over here on the property that was majority of it was within the outer portion of the 100 foot buffer um we have proposed to not build that uh and to build the garage over here instead and what we'd like to do is make a uh a field change moving this garage from this location to this location where it is just out of the 100 foot buffer on existing lawn and um outside the area I've shown a limit of disturb a stockpile a staging area and erosion control on the opposite side of the driveway um should there be to cross over there okay um Bruce so the appropriate way to route that is to uh talk to our uh administrator and get on the agenda um under the uh request for field change and I have tried that since September oh okay and uh what have you tried that's not worked um I we've reached out we had a filing of for a building permit um we moved the building it was a foot and a half two feet closer to the Wetland so it was just in the buffer um we made phone calls and emails um we uh have sent in and answered all the questions via the portal through the contractor that's trying to build this who was the same one that built the addition on the end of the house which was a 2021 RDA that you approved with a doa3 um and we've not responses and now I'm being told I can be on the December 4th agenda but for an RDA but that doesn't give us you know the ground's going to be starting to get Frozen and we're trying to get a garage built for Nick's Widow so that she can have storage since her husband is no longer with us to clear the driveway and the cars I understand but um we're not able to make a determination or any type of decision here tonight because it's not been published uh as uh you know our open meeting long requires well well this work here is outside the buffer and under 310 CMR 10.02 blah blah blah blah blah the work in the buffer in the outer 50 doesn't need to have a filing you know and we've always done them as rdas but this is outside the zone so we're we're moving outside the Zone we think that this should be fine we're doing all the protection as if they we were in the zone and we just need to get a sign off on the building permit so that this can move forward I understand what you're saying big the hole from inside the foundation so we're digging right at the edge we'll form right at the edge you know we'll stay out of the buffer zone well if you're outside of the buffer zone you're outside of the jurisdictional area 100% but conservation has not signed off on the building permit for over two months okay uh Sophia uh can you give us some insights on this uh yes so we've been working with uh Bruce for a little bit um trying to backtrack okay so hang on Bruce Bruce is saying nobody's contacted him uh that's incorrect we've been back and forth for a bit between a little bit bit of myself on the open gov and Maddie has been um trying her best with the Limited hours she has um to correspond with him and we've been looking for um the DOA and it gets a little sketchy because it's we can't locate the DOA that was issued um by the prior agent and so we've reached out to D to see if they have any way to um Trace that on their end um because regardless those um also go to D but with not having the agan here that um supposedly sent out the DOA we we can't locate it um in physical files or electronic files so it's been um a little bit of a struggle Madam chair if I may yes br um I did forward to ma uh Madison the uh agenda from the May meeting the minutes from the May meeting where it shows that you voted unanimously to approve uh a negative determination um I also previously had forwarded emails between Nick and Nadia I think her name was if I remember correctly prior um agent um about the the mess up in the description in the DOA where they must have copied the previous description from 21 it had a 22 date on it but it talked about the porch rather than the the um garage and tried to get it cleared up and then never got it cleared up and so hence we don't have I haven't seen a copy of the DOA I've gone through our files Nick's files at this end um but I do have the voting for it and I do have the messed up one and I provided all of that to Madison and Sophia Sophia over the course of time but you know I I'll will call to follow up last Thursday I told there was going to be a follow-up call and I I keep on calling and I'm just trying to I'm just I'm just trying to help this my my former friends Widow and getting a garage in the ground this winter yeah I understand uh we're not going to be able to discuss this further uh Bruce uh feel free to follow up with me offline uh but we it's not uh it's not been it's not been published so we can't discuss it we can't make decisions about it here okay how do I follow up with you offline Madam chair uh my email is posted on the lunenberg uh website perfect I will check that out thank you very much for your time all right thank you bye bye now okay uh do we have any other uh public comment I'm seeing No Hands raised so we'll move along to an appointment hearing at 7 pm uh so Tom anelons uh has obtained funding to purchase a Snow Dog trail groomer and is seeking permission to groom single track Trails on conservation lands for winter uh Recreation like cross country skiing and Fat Tire Bike uh the snow dog is a motorized vehicle which would be used on trails that are close to snowmobiles um Tom why don't you uh talk us through your proposal here okay Tommy Allin 186 West Street lunenberg um I've been living here um 12 to 13 years and um I'm a Avid cyclist um I've been working in the lunenberg homman street for quite some time just um doing Trail maintenance etc etc I was I did purchase last week a snow doog which is a motorized vehicle with a I do believe it's a seven or8 horsepower Briggs insurant motor it's 20 inches wide I believe um it Grooms for um CrossCountry skiers hikers SN um it makes it easier on trail Runners but the main object was more to for fat biker fat bike tire I guess um bikes if you're familiar with that so I was just um asking permission if we could groom Trails just to benefit the um the you know the a winter sports activity people that are out there well I'm a I'm an avid Sports person myself and also a uh mountain biker so it sounds like uh it sounds like something that's um you know I I personally would have some interest in now are you asking for permission on all conservation lands or on targeted conservation lands well you know what Mary that would be um that would be fine with me I mean if we could just make it good for everybody I wouldn't have a problem with you know if everybody's having a good time on a winter SP I I'm more than happy to help out and take this snow dog on request from you or B or um Steve you know in to benefit anybody really um but the main you know where we bike obviously you know home and Street um I'll behind get Gary's house and just um where is um out behind Gary's house Gary L's um Table Rock oh Table Rock got it thank you Bob thank you Bob so yeah we just um we I know um town of um Lem they have there's a guy out there that snow has a snow dog and um it just it's really uh it's a just a really benefits a lot of uh lot of people people you know and I can't and this would um this would only be on Mark Trails yes okay I didn't mean to interrupt you Tom apologies yeah yeah no worries I'm not really of a good public speaker so this is part of you're doing just fine okay yeah thank you um Bob was there anything else that you wanted to uh well to that um I mean you know the the commission could just take and and and vote to approve you know Tom's use of the snow doog but uh I I think it would be better you know going forward if the commission would um uh amend its land use regulations to formalize that process I mean that I mean you could vote tonight you know to approve it but I I I you know just to approve the use of the snow dog but I sent the full commission an email earlier today uh with with some ex proposed language uh that said you know that uh you add a new section I think it's 2.5 to the land use RS uh that says something like uh uh ride behind uh Trail group not to exceed 30 in in width uh are allowed on all um conservation land uh except for Hunting Hills which doesn't allow motorized vehicles um uh you know so long as there's at least four inches of snow on the ground um if you did that you know if somebody else gets a snow dog or you know you get demand in another part of town you know uh you'd be able to go do it anywhere because you know a snow dog has zero impact on the environment because it's on top of the snow the snow is between you know the snow dog and the environment and it just benefits everyone um you know it benefits anyone who wants to get out there in the woods you know in the winter when there's really heavy been been really heavy snow so um but that's up to the commission you know how they want to proceed but I made a suggestion in the email uh and if you may or may not recall uh to amend amend the land use RS uh we there's a rule in there that says you have to have two uh public hearings on meetings that have been televised and uh the um uh pack Public Access cable uh televises uh the second meet cons the Conservation Commission second meeting of each month you know so I was suggesting that you hold a public hearing you know on uh the second me meeting in November and the second meeting in December uh you know uh you know with language similar to what I proposed uh but those are just my thoughts you know this is really Tom's Tom's idea Tom took the initiative um I had discussed back when I was on the commission the possibility of applying for a recreational Trails program Grant you know to buy a sow that dog um or something similar you know because there there are other models out there um but it it just never happened for one reason or another um uh plus it's I think it's better in private hands because all the logistics about you know maintenance gas all storage and all that other stuff I think it's better in private hands so uh I agree um so I I'm just just a static and I'm just trying to be helpful here and and and I don't want to muck the process up um but those are just suggestions thank you good suggestions too Bob thank you for that um Chris you have your hand raised yeah I just want to um let people know that may maybe not experienced with what those are um I've got to um benefit from them in the Lim State Forest um it's like a narrow sidewalk and it feels nice and flat and it's great as as Tom was saying it's great for a fat biking it's a low press Fat Tire and um we can just ride all like like Tom I'm and Tom and Bob I'm an avid cyclist and because of snow dogs we can ride year year round if we get a heavy storm and Tom gets that snow dog out people can walk with ease through the through those groomed Trails they can cross country ski and we can Fat Bike it's it's really a um it does benefit a good uh good uh amount of people that enjoy the winter activities very good thank you Chris Mike uh yes Madam um I'm just looking to get an answer about when would the snow dog be utilized uh what hours of the day uh would this interfere with people either walking or cross country skiing um during that time I'm or I guess I'm reluctant to change the regulations as Bob possibly thought we could do but um you know if I could get a some sort of idea that the snow dog is going to be at what hours it'll be you know will it be in the middle of the night or you know will this if it goes near houses will it wake people up I'm just curious to see what kind of a schedule are we talking about uh I like the idea of prepping the trails for people but I just want to make sure it doesn't interfere with people's enjoyment um while they're using uh the trails on you know on the properties good questions uh Mike uh Tom yeah re very good questions um so I can answer some of those um to my know um so it's just like uh it's a technique obviously it it depends on temperature of the snow air temperature so it really benefits if you go out after dark where the moisture is low humidity is low so the it it would the best time to groom with probably on my knowledge and my experience the people that I talk to is either early morning or in my our case it would probably be after five six o'clock at night so it wouldn't really interfere on morning traffic of you know morning in hikers skiers you know snowshoers so uh it really sets up overnight where you know you groom at night it gets cold it sets up it freezes so I I and it's fire is being loud it's not a machine that's really you probably it's not like a two it's not a two-stroke motor where it's you know it's where it's annoying loud right as we everybody knows not like a plane in the sky it's pretty quiet actually and it's fourstroke so it's not a two-stroke motor which is you know doesn't use oil which is good for the irate but it's I think you could really get away with using it not that we would but you could probably use it at any time at night and you wouldn't know it was it's like a log splitter you know it's just real quiet but it does a great job right so I think that's my experience you know yeah it's you know in of course if it ended up being a problem then you just fix it you wouldn't you know you wouldn't do it at night or if somebody complained which I don't think they would I don't even really think that you know the windows are closed and you're in someone's you're not really in someone's backyard anyhow but no that I I don't think that would be a problem far as noise wise and if you know we don't go out till there's 4 Ines of snow in the trails of ly 24 to 32 Ines wide I believe the attachment and um yeah so night nighttime would probably be the use of the machine thank you Tom and and I'm assuming you're going to be doing this work or do you have a crew that would be doing this work we we have volunteers that donated to the machine though of course the machine is it's a machine you don't really want a lot of people operating it so it would be two to three of us that would be running it um you know and they get familiar with it more you know it's not a machine you kind of let everybody just take out and do their thing for maintenance wise right um so it would be yeah I'm not sure if you know Gary ly um and myself would probably be the main operators that would be running it and I I assume you and you're the ones who are trained on this snow dog uh so uh feeling comfortable that you're not going to break the machine or break hurt yourself in the process or yeah exactly it's yeah it's pretty neat machine it's it's not something you really can get hurt it's pretty stable if you if you can YouTube it so know dog there's great videos out there I think a video was circulated uh to the conservation Commissioners via email yeah it's pretty it's pretty cool of course you're not going to take it on any you know slopes or ledge it's more yeah I mean you can do some inclines with it you know and and rollers but you're not going to take it anywhere where you're out of mounts basically and you know you're gonna you know either hurt the machine or hurt yourself thank you Tom you're welcome any other questions or comments from members of the commission okay do we have any uh questions or comments from members of the public Mary I have a yes um you know if you're concerned about um I mean we presently allow snowmobile use um correct in uh in conservation land um as well as grooming as well as grooming uh for those of people who actually get out on conservation land in the wintertime uh we are already deeply indebted uh to the snowmobiles who go out there um and uh pack the trails and groom them um and uh We've not had in my uh seven years on the commission uh we never had any uh complaints about snowmobile use um and this machine is quieter uh than snowmobiles um and as to being out there and interfering with other people's uh use um when the snow quite often uh when you're using a snow dog uh the snow depth is such that no one is out there at all unless there's been a snow automobile through uh because uh you can't make any Headway because um you know the depth of the snow so um uh thank you Mary for allowing me some additional comments thank you Bob um and you know along with what you've said I'm I'm out I'm out in conservation land 12 months out of the year um and uh walk a lot uh those of you who know me may know I'm also a snower as well um but uh you know I can't take my dogs walking on the snowmobile so I am out uh very often uh walking at night uh and walking in the snow and uh all the trails that I like to or prefer to walk on are more of the single track variety when we're out walking and I think the snow dog would really really uh do a lot to make those Trails a lot more accessible in the winter time so I'm I'm uh I'm pretty excited about the opportunity uh for lunenberg to have a snow dog in town uh to make the trails more accessible uh in the winter time right for all of our residents that like to get out that might be a little bit ambivalent about getting out because it might be slippery or you know it might be deep so or something like that okay so we are not in a position tonight to undertake uh making a change to the uh land use Trails or the land use uh regulations uh because as Bob uh appropriately mentioned uh that requires two uh two public meetings that are televised uh but I would be uh willing to accept a motion to allow this uh as deviation right uh for the interim until such time we could uh Undertake and consider making it a or consider it for uh a land use um a trail use uh regulation change soov second thank you Jenny thank you Mike and uh we'll do a roll call vote Chris hi Mike hi Jenny hi and I for myself so so uh we'll approve that uh as a temporary deviation to the uh regulations and then uh as a second consideration uh would the Conservation Commission be in favor of uh proposing this as a permanent change to Trail use regulations I would I think it should be the same way as snowmobile screw the trails I don't think we have to go through each year to propose no we don't we have uh Evergreen approval on uh yellow and orange Trails I would like to have something similar for the snow dog yeah um Mike what are your thoughts around that no I'm okay with that uh Madam chair um so you would essentially be saying be saying uh snowmobiles plus snow dogs are approved uh on Conservation Trails you know I don't I don't have the regulation in front of me but that's essentially what we would be changing it to to include the snow dog um and we may want to put in parentheses that it's a grooming tool uh a trail grooming tool so people don't know what it is yeah we would we would have to get some type of regulatory language that defined it and generically and not to a particular brand or model I think okay sounds good yeah and Jenny what are your thoughts there um I agree I think that it would be a great idea to put this in the sil okay um we are not having a second uh meeting this month uh and we may or may not in December depending on how the workload goes uh but and I would also like to get the other Conservation Commission members an opportunity to weigh in on it as well those that are away um so we'll we'll take up the uh permanent uh usage uh as a regulation change at a lat later date so thank you and and thanks for honestly thanks for taking up the initiative to go and get funding for a snow dog to do this Gro I just think it's awesome the more people we can get out in the trails the more people are invested in our conservation properties that's awesome you know what's also a benefit Mary is that just uh it's it's really nice you could get attachments or you have a tree down that fell across a trail and you can't you know it's hard to hike out there and and keep the trails clear for everybody you know so it's it benefits you that way as well right I mean if you just to keep the trails open year round right right so it's really no positive you know feedback on it's all good that's my take anyway but thank you for allowing us allowing me to uh you know get thank Tom get the idea out thank you yeah we really appreciate it thank you you're welcome okay and with that we will move along um to our public hearings uh Sophia did we have any requests for uh any requests for continuations no okay and we have no new public hearings so uh next one up under continued public hearings pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 is amended and the town of lunenberg wetlands protection and Municipal bylaws a public hearing on a notice of intent by DNA LUN ber LLC for construction of storm water management system within the 50 and 100 foot buffer zone but outside of the 30 foot buffer zone of a bordering vegetated Wetland located at electric a and Pierce a do we have uh those applicants uh with us here tonight or or their representative I am not hearing anybody speak up and and S Sophie have we you been in um contact with these applicants they they knew they were on uh for tonight because I I seem to recall they were not at the last meeting either um yeah they weren't they weren't here at the last one um I can double check the open up to make sure that the notification um was sent um but I have been in contact with them for other uh filings too ones that are coming up um and they didn't they didn't mention anything if I recall properly from uh open go they're represented by uh is it Anan engineering yes that's correct um the applicant is Chris Anderson those guys are usually pretty good about showing up when they're scheduled yeah um I think I actually even I might have updated their um yeah I even updated their hearing date so once I do that I should have gotten a notification of some sort last time we held the meeting open uh we uh Until the End uh to see if you know they were just kind of delayed or something um I'm not inclined to do that this time uh because this is a second nonappearance so I'm looking for a motion to continue to December 4th so moved thank you Mike thank you Chris uh roll call vote uh Jenny hi Mike I Chris hi and I for my s it's continue to December 4th okay moving along uh pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 as amended and the town of lunberg wetlands protection and Municipal bylaws a public hearing on a notice of intent by Christopher coffen for the removal of a deteriorating pressure treated railroad tie wall with replacement by continuing and existing Graves Recon wall and its place on the shore of Lake Shirley located 701 Reservoir Road do we have uh Christopher coffin andor's representative here tonight uh I am here Christopher cin very good uh so you want to just get us reoriented with a uh overview again of of what you're doing let me um oh Sophia do you have the ability to share uh his uh site plan yes um well trying to look for the most recent one [Music] um Chris could you help me out um I I don't know how to share anything um but right there that picture that you have on there now the last time I was on everyone was all set to go I just didn't have my deep number which we have now and then on the filter Fack right be you want wondering how much Stone so we were putting 12 Ines of stone on the back and 6 inches of stone on the bottom do you have that did you send that detail in yes we did and Sophie go ahead by email uh it wasn't uploaded to the um submission on the online submission yes it was I uploaded it on Monday morning it should be in on the bottom this is my wife Ashley just so you know sorry um do you know what the time TI is it should be revise letter and revise sketch right there right there yep okay let me try to orient this there you go you can kind of see it written in there yep that's consistent with the notes that I had as well okay and there were no notes uh on the uh you know comments on the d uh number so anybody know uh there are comments I am uncertain that the applicant has submitted or resubmitted their um updates and changes to their their plans to D if they did there would be um I would have seen further comments but it hasn't been confirmed that D has received these changes from as far as I know everything was uploaded to the D so Sophia you would get a a a notice from D that that's been those additional uh information's been uploaded no I would I would not get that okay in fact I have DP out to me um pretty consistently with applicants not providing that information to them MH um otherwise there's no way I would know other than um the word of the applicant yeah I was just going through and reading the comments okay and then the uh one of the comments they had made was the uh or in land subject to flooding or luw resource area impact should be Quantified on the WPA form 3 even if considered temporary in nature and the applicant should demonstrate that the relevant performance standards have been met has that been addressed uh Christopher oh yeah you're showing it on the screen so I believe everything was addressed um again as Sophia knows we had filed all the paperwork wrong the first time and re had it redo everything so most of the questions were irrelevant to me but I'm not sure on that one but everything I believe we re submitted all their questions to them properly okay and Sophia from what you have access to do you have access to this information um the additional details and changes yes yeah I do okay so then if for some reason D didn't get it uh it's available and that Gap could be closed in short order that's correct okay okay well then um do we have any questions or comments from members of the commission and I'm seeing none uh do we have any questions or comments from members of the public I am seeing none uh so I think I'm looking for MO motion from from my Commissioners I think I'm looking for a motion to approve so moved second Jenny thank you Mike roll call vote Chris I Jenny I Mike I and I for myself okay thank you okay so am I all set now uh well so yeah what you'll um sopia you just want to walk them through the next steps real quick yeah so um essentially I will have to create um a standard order of conditions um document that will be sent to the commission for signatures um once we get a minimum of four uh required signatures that will be sent to you um and during this process you will have to have that recorded at the registry of deeds um you cannot proceed with work until that is done um you also have to coordinate with myself for a preconstruction uh um site visit um in which there are um a few things that we can talk offline if you have any questions about that um okay I hope that um gives you a little bit of a next steps Direction yep I appreciate that thank you very good moving along uh pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 131 section 40 is amended in the town of lunberg wetlands protection and Municipal bylaws a public hearing on an abbreviated notice of resource area delineation by Kevin O'Brien at 390 Howard Street uh do we have uh Mr O'Brien Andor his representative here on the call tonight you have Mr O'Brien on the call thank you for joining us problem do you want to just catch us up on uh this project and where we are yes M Madam chair and board members my name is Kevin O'Brien I am the owner of the property uh at um Howard Street um Chuck Cameron has gone out there with art Allen they have ref flagged oh chuck had ref flagged it and then out looked at it and they ref flagged it again um Whitman and Bingham or now Haley ward has been out there starting to pick up the flags there are quite a few of them so unfortunately this is the time of the year where everyone's busy because supposedly Winter's coming not like with a day like today but winter is coming keep your fingers cross especially you people that like to do the snowboarding and the stuff that we just talked about recently snow mobiling too um so between now and your next meeting on December 4th I would I would anticipate having a plan done over to your department and something that art can look at hopefully before our next before the next meeting okay very good um and then the uh other note that I had I think I had uh was uh you were installing some extra uh erosion control measures as well that was also done that was the erosion that was out in the back of the property there was uh five or six or seven different checkpoints um I had a gentleman Sean Toshi go out there he went out there last week and uh lined those with stone honestly Madam Tre I haven't seen it um but he I talked to him a little earlier today and he said it's very obvious so if somebody wants to go out there and look at it if that's so something that Sophie goes out before I do and she wants to let me know I can if not if I'm out there I will take pictures and send them to her okay very good um and so Sophia is that something that you think you can get out out to uh before the next meeting yeah I can do that I was actually in anticipation that it was already complete and I was waiting for someone to reach out to me um last week and the beginning of this week okay excellent and I think um I think the last time you went out there maybe Chris uh was able to go with you um Chris I don't know if you still have some flexibility but if I do I do so Sophia just reach out I'll be glad to go with you okay okay that that way we have a little bit of continuity and um it's a huge property it's a little bit nicer walking uh in the company of somebody else yeah that's we we made that pretty clear at the last night we visit we were out there I asked that at least two people go out there so she doesn't if God forbid something happens when my guys were working out there I always told them if you're working alone just let me know when you're out of there at the end of the day not that I'm checking their time but at least that way you know they're out of there at the end of the day so yeah very good because it is pretty big and God forbid something happens way out back and you know nobody finds out till the next morning or something nobody needs that so thank you for Chris again for doing that my pleasure okay uh thank you for that update I don't think there are any decisions that uh we need to make on that uh we will uh talk to you again uh December 4th oh I guess we need to continue to uh December 4th since we're not making any decisions tonight um so I'm looking for a motion to continue to December 4th soov thank you Chris second thank you Mike uh roll call vote Jenny hi Mike I Chris I and I for myself thank you again for that update Uh Kevin thank you uh Madam chairman board members and I hope everyone enjoys the uh Thanksgiving holiday see you very good thank you thanks a lot good night all right uh moving along uh to uh let's see certificates of compliance 564 Page Street uh Sophia what do you want to tell us about this request um so this request actually um we had the applicant want to uh requested to come back to the commission and I believe they're on here tonight to have further discussion uh this was the one that was last uh time that uh we voted to keep open yes that is correct okay and the applicant is Shane Walker so we have Shane with us tonight you have uh Tim alio that's the actual applicant of this uh Shane Walker is the new property owner I'm the previous property owner where this notice of intent and Order conditions started but I no longer own the property okay and what was your name against sir Timothy alio formerly 564 page street now 318 Page Street your uh your Zoom profile says Courtney Johnson yeah that's my wife's computer okay okay and so uh what had happened uh last time uh was uh we went through Sophie took us through all of her findings um there had been several attempts to go and uh walk out on the property well actually walked down on the property but uh Sophia had found uh some issues um including uh issues where uh leaves were actually taped onto dead plants um it looks like uh most of the Dead plants uh were all of the plants were recently replaced uh the blueberries that were not thriving uh under consultation with a uh I think I think you said Lake View uh Nursery uh you had taken steps to uh help those uh blueberries do better moving forward uh but the Conservation Commission at that time uh wanted to wait until the spring to ensure that the uh new plantings made it through the winter um yeah and that the uh measures taken for the blueberry bushes actually were enough to allow them to make it through the winter and and since that time uh the applicant uh correctly uh pointed out that uh our our regulations do not allow us to continue a request uh for COC that we either approve it or we deny it um and that's uh that's a that is appropriate uh so uh that's where we are right now is there anything that uh Timothy or Shane would like to add to this so I I can't speak to um the leaves taped on the trees I I don't live there I don't have access to the property uh however I can speak to the fact that that tree was replaced um the the the original s sidewalk that was done by Matt marrow was done three years ago uh when I requested them to come do a S sidewalk for a certificate of compliance but I don't know what happened I wasn't really trying to I didn't pursue it enough I wasn't I I didn't I don't know what happened but I dropped the ball because I didn't continue it and so then when I went to sell we still had this open three years later that's when I started this well we were already under agreement to sell I ended up closing with a hold back I don't so I I don't live there um when Sophia came the first time she walked around the property it was uh we had a conversation about what was required as far as um documentation per the order of conditions uh that I was I was given from concom back in 2018 uh which is 2018 11134 so we she went for that she walked the property and she said it had everything looked good but it had been so long that she wanted another letter from uh an environmental agency stating that the plants still look good because the first one we got was done in 2020 and now it's 2024 and I was hesitant to go get another letter when I I I I go through my order of conditions and it says that I I don't need one um I don't I don't qualify for one because my I don't have any work in the in the wetlands itself I only have work in the buffer zone which is dictated on page three of this report so that was fine I got a letter from Dills and Roy I hired them to take care of this whole thing they wrote a letter conservation came back Sophie came back for S sidewalk number two with um Ryan Proctor from Dillon Roy that's when they found the uh taped leaves I I believe was the second one then on and that was October that was October 2nd I'm sorry there there there were four site visits I just want to I don't want to tell you the wrong dates here September 11th Sophie comes out and she wants an updated letter from Norse SE uh September 14th the trees are replaced October 2nd Sophie was supposed to come back out we're already on the agenda at this point Sophie is supposed to come back out before the meeting um which was that week she no call no showed not not a big deal but we weren't able to get on that meeting and then they scheduled another s sidewalk for October 9th October 9th Sophie comes verify the plants have been replaced and she still wanted uh the report from the updated report from the environmental agency and that conservation the commission was going to come to a walkth through the walkthrough happens on October 12th we get told everything looks great should be no problem well so so let me just tell you that um the conservation Commissioners that make walkthroughs are not able to give you advice about whether or not there will be problems are not uh at the uh meetings Okay so well when I look in the portal it so it shows pass for a s sidewalk uh Sophie first failed us then she gave us a partial and then we got a full pass so to me that's an indication that the S sidewalk was we passed the S sidewalk so then when there's a continuation because we're looking for the tree the trees to grow which were plantings of replanting and some of them have been there for several years and some deer did eat the blueberry but I mean they did eat some of them but that's kind of out of my control they were replanted um I I'm just trying to figure out so the um the requirement isn't just to put the plants in the ground the the requirement uh with any EOC is that they're established and that they Thrive okay so um so so that's that's the place I think uh last time around uh we got into you know a problem is that they were so recently planned that uh they can't be considered established in the order conditions where where does it say that it is a requirement yeah but can you point to that chapter in section can you can you point to that in this order of conditions because I've met everything I've had to do I've submitted everything I've had to do per this order which you issued so can you show me where it says plants need to thrive and establish before they can issue because this order of condition survives the actual order of conditions when you have a certificate of a compliance this goes away you get a certificate of when this goes away the certificate of compliance issued the order conditions survives it in perpetuity that's what this order says so can you tell me says that I can't raise my hand but oh yeah Jenny so in the order of conditions um it does say where was it I just had it all work including there is a part about stable everything has to be stabilized and that's really what it refers to is that the plants have to actually be stabilizing the area and I just had it now I can't find it but so it doesn't necessarily say thriving but stabilization and to be stabilized it actually has to be a fully established like plant that is going to survive which wouldn't be a newly planted can you show me where it says at yeah give me I just had it on my screen and then my mouse went crazy and scrolled hi Sophia you have your hand up yeah um this isn't exactly what Jenny was looking for but I believe I would consider the under other conditions in the order of conditions uh number 45 um pursuant to condition 26d professional W scientists shall monitor initial plantings in All Phases of growth to ensure replication restoration is completed I'm not sure if that helps at all um but my perspective our order conditions doesn't apply to 26d it only applies to 26 A and C Sophia are you confirming that for us yes thank you if you look at page three section B item three buffer zone impact shortest distance between limit of project disturbance and the Wetland resource area specified in pr0 CMR uh 10.02 to linear feet when you look at the Inland resource area impacts none are checked at all in the next three pages which is an indication we have no wet willing work uh that was completed and were exempt from 2016 Delta um yep uh Tim is correct on on that I scrolled up and located that section okay thank you so Jenny I think you're still searching I'm still searching it's not a searchable document then huh it's a PDF so it's you can't just control F oh many PDFs you can but I understand not all of them that you can so won't let me I can't search it in open because SC and open it in Adobe e so what do you think Jenny do you think we should wait or um I think we should wait I okay I'm happy to do that I would prefer to get to the bottom of it I did try to search um the document in Adobe and it did not come up with anything I found so well it says number 18 all sedimentation barriers shall be maintained in good repair until all Disturbed areas have been fully stabilized with vegetation or other means so while it's referring to the sedimentation barriers I would say that that's also waiting for full stabilization which would be the vegetation stabilizing the Wetland what page is that on that is so on the PDF and open gun oh I found it pH s uh yes P 7 and 12 um the the sedimentation barrier is so that you don't have run off into the Wetland resource area and the place has been more than stabilized for the last five years that one a 3X3 hole at best for a couple um blueberry bushes I mean that's that that's not speaking to that's not speaking to 6 months of a I guess prolonged PL to make sure that it's planted sufficiently or is going to survive for a certain period of time like that's that's literally discussing construction of erosion controls and stabilization of the ground by vegetation and other means it's setting an expectation that all vegetation is stabilized is that op your opinion on it it is is is there any and it's also it's consistent with how we manage all of the uh requests for certificates of compliance no and I understand that completely however I I mean I I've been working on this for over two months now and the the 21-day request is is not consistent with your your your bylaw so I understand there's discrepancies in the way that this goes this this is a stretch for you to be able to push out a certificate of compliance 6 months which is to me arbitrary um it's not arbitrary because that's when the growing season starts again and uh you've asked for us to make a decision uh tonight uh which I would be happy to undertake with my commission um and that's that's fair and consistent with the regulations uh my my understanding of the regulations is that in order for us to issue a certific certificate of compliance the vegetation all needs to be stabilized all of it not part of it not most of it all of it that's my understanding I'm only only one vote man with all due respect the the replanting were replanting of replanting which were 5 years old and were eaten by deer I I can't control Mother Nature I really can't the the fact that he went out and did that right away showed intent I I can't speak uh to to his other action with the tree I don't I I can't answer why people do what they do however he replaced the tree itself the entire area is completely stabilized and now we're with for a lack of a better term choosing an arbitrary amount of time to see if these replanting of replanting are going to survive or not get eaten and if they get eaten or they don't make it I'm going to be in a Perpetual cycle of replacing blueberry bushes and trees to make sure these things grow because I Disturbed point 6% of the area this is a complete stretch on number 18 I understand that you're frustrated um uh Mike uh you've raised your hand yes mam chair uh Tim when we were out there the last time to look at these blueberry bushes um we uh I think we made a suggestion to help those blueberry bushes to get established we wondered perhaps if you could put some cages around them um have has anyone gone ahead to do that to try to the cages are already over it I have photographic evidence okay well that's good to hear thank you madam chair thank you Mike can I add something I can't remember yes Jenny so the the point of having the plants stable um you know established and thriving is to help the wetlands be healthy um it's not so if you're saying that the plantings were there four years ago and then they didn't make it that's not really reestablishing the Wetland so and it sounds like they could fail again which is why we have this interest in just making sure we can keep this Wetland healthy which is the reason we have the W protection that completely but um the the order of conditions survives the certificate of compliance and I I'm still trying to figure out if I've met everything and on the portal I get past and and I've submitted all the documentation that I need per number 20 number 26 Alpha Del uh beta and Charlie not Delta but you guys can't really Point other to the fact then you we want to make sure blueberry bushes are okay and you want to wait till spring like that doesn't fit into the general orders and the general conditions which I need to obtain a certificate of compliance so it's not just the blueberry bushes it's it's all of the plants there um none of them were fully established so I just you have a replanting plan from 2020 so that's just the plan though it doesn't that's just the plan the plan doesn't say that those plants are established they're thriving obviously they weren't because they are still having issues ma'am there's a a detailed report from Wetland consulting company in 2020 detailing yeah well I just read it it's a planting plan but it doesn't say that the plants are established and thriving it's just a plan and and and where do I need to have a an a a letter saying they are need to be established and thriving that's that's why we have our that's why we have our office administrator go out there and validate that and and where does it say that in this General conditions what can you show me text that says that they need to J monitor that they're thriving where does it say that that's all I'm asking it says that in our Wetland regulation and you point to the chapter subsection we we'll have to take that offline um we've spent enough time on this uh and it's clear that we're not going to share an opinion um and that's not required uh that we share an opinion um so right now I think I'm looking for a motion from my commission um I would be in a uh position to uh deny this request but I'm open to uh motions uh if somebody feels inclined to uh want to approve it I would make a motion to deny thank you Jenny do I have a second second thank you Chris roll call vote Mike hi Jenny hi Chris hi and I for myself request for certificate of compliance is denied we uh respectfully request that you reapply in the spring uh once the uh vegetation is uh out leafed so just just to get this clear I'm getting denied without you being able to point to something in writing after you violated your own statute limit for issuing a certificate of compliance and you're you're telling we haven't we haven't violated our own I'm the chair I'm the chair um and I do have the bully pulpit here so we've not violated any statute you have um what is the statute that you propose that we have violated I will pull it up certificate of compliance upon written request by the applicant the commission shall issue the certificate of compliance within 21 calendar days of the receipt thereof next paragraph prior to the issue issuance of the certificate of compliance a site inspection shall be completed by the its commission or its agent and we've been out there a number of times if the Conservation Commission determines after review and inspection that the work has been done not been done in compliance is Mr Mr legio you're uh free to appeal this to a higher Court you you shall issue a denial within 21 days of the receipt for application that did not happen so you're free to appeal this to a higher court so we've taken a vote our determination is to deny the certificate of compliance you're free to appeal can I have youre process why in writing please can I have the reason as to why in writing because it says you have to in your own bylaw we will it will be in the meeting minutes those will be published and that will be part of public record that's not what your bylaw says that's fine we're moving along uh so we have a certificate of compliance request for uh 48 Pearl Street y just uh getting my notes really quickly together um okay so this one we actually we um we heard at the last meeting and the commission requested um that they return with a planting plan with detail um and this this plan was provided in the open gov um online for viewing okay can you show that to us um do we have what was the resident's name Suzanne yes hi I'm here uh uh de George yeah okay um yeah thank you I just wanted to see if you were here or not um Sophia can uh share for us uh Suzanne can you point me to the um correct titled plan it September oh um I do not oh actually October 22nd this might be yes this is the one that's the one if you want to zoom in a little or zoom out I'm sorry so that they can see the key at the bottom that details the number of plantings okay so uh if I recall correctly uh Suzanne you had an area that uh what was it that you did was it suitable for the trees that were proposed uh and so you put in a lot of other plantings and L putting in the trees is that yeah we also have two you can see on the left there it says there's a dogwood growing and a black cherry growing those were those were two trees that had taken root um we didn't plant those those had taken root so we were hoping that those could qualify as well as the 80 plus other plantings that we have um around the property and you can see it is a big mix of hostes junipers shrubs uh we got some Holly shrubs we've got some Limelight hydranges and then we have a large mix of perennials all throughout is probably more than 80 and we continue to plant every year you know um things don't always make it um which is why this planting plan looks a little bit different than the original one that we had PL had passed in but yeah um the focus last week was for you to see what the planting plan looked like and then you guys were going to determine whether those two trees that were growing plus all the plantings were to satisfy the order of compliance okay very good um yeah that looks um really good uh Sophia did you have photos or Jenny U somebody have photos of this area I don't recall from last time we met I have a couple photos if you want me to share my screen I can show you what those trees look like uh yeah that would be great um I think I have to change my privacy settings so give me one sec if you would okay are you able to see my okay uh you I used my app picture this so I could detail what it looked like can you see um the Dogwood do you see my whole screen or just the Dogwood we see the black cherry oh okay so those are the two that have started growing and we had an arborist out and Sophia mentioned this last time this Dogwood he thought um was growing from a stump that was previously there before we you know got a hold of it and it's growing out from the stump and then this black cherry is starting to grow we've trimmed it out a little bit um so that it will grow into you know a tree okay very good um and Sophia what was your recommendation on this uh request for a certificate of compliance um my that was a pass recommendation was to approve it despite um the small changes okay and that was contingent upon uh the commission um requesting and obtaining that uh revised and detailed plan yeah yeah that uh detailed plan uh is really nice um so I think I'm looking for a request for approval moves thank you Jenny second thank you Mike roll call vote Chris hi Jenny hi Mike I and I for myself very good thank you Suzanne thank you very much okay okay we have next uh 393 New West Townsen Road uh Sophia um um yes um this one 393 just looking for notes uh this one was a a retaining wall a and a septic system um so it was very straightforward nothing very complicated um the wall was um completed um according to plan and the septic was also completed to plan and all the vegetation was thoroughly established so I would um approve that c okay do we have any questions from members of commission I'm looking for a motion to approve so moved thank you Mike thank you Chris roll call vote Jenny Jenny are you there Jenny you just went on mute I didn't hear anything I thank you Chris I Mike I and I for myself okay now the next entry I have doesn't really seem to be an address is it um is it a uh return from the 393 New West Townsen uh Sophia it's like 28-50 is that related to 393 New West Sound and Road oh yes um since there were two um projects that's just a d number so it was um the 208 208 Z okay yeah I understand continuation okay very good and we have a notice of project change for 22 Fairview uh What uh do we have the those applicants um were their representatives here good evening uh Matt Marl here representing jackpot of the applicant hi Matt uh you wan to uh read us into what this is about and what the uh changes are is it okay if I share my screen yeah that would be great okay thank you come on there we go so hopefully the scrolling function on this works because my computer's a little funny but um long story short I came in back a year about a year ago um to get uh an order of conditions which got approved for this proposed garage subsequently my client um engaged the services of an architect the architect discovered that you know the because of clearance issues with the existing porch that was going to remain and roof line issues they banded about for for a number of months actually back and forth on tweet out the design and um I had made it clear to The Architects that they could not go into the 50 Foot zone so after looking at it let me know if my scroll is working here it's working okay um I submitted this to the portal um this is the New Dimensions it would be instead of 30 the original one was 36 feet by 30t long or wide rather 36 feet long by 30 feet wide the New Dimensions wind up being 39 feet long and 32 feet wide they've tucked it in a little bit closer to the roadway we were going to have to go in for a zba hearing anyway but until they settled where they wanted to go and um come up with a final plan that they all agreed on um I wanted to make sure that you guys are okay with this is a minor change the 50 foot zone is still here the erosion protection lines up with the 50 Foot Zone um there will be no still no intrusion into the 50 Foot Zone we made sure that we kept we tucked it up closer to the road to just to prevent that from happening and that's basically it okay that looks straightforward to me um any questions from members of the commission uh Sophia uh any concerns no nothing for me okay I think I'm looking for a motion to approve some wol thank you Chris second Mike thank you Mike roll call vote Jenny hi Chris hi Mike I and I for myself okay thank you very much thank you Matt have a good one thank you okay so moving along to violations enforcements um Etc have we uh do we have any status updates on any of the uh ones listed yes we have a couple um I guess somewhat uh for 10 massav were making some progress um the applicant was told that they have to um apply um and submit permit through DP um as well as to our office for the work they've already done um and you'd asked me to go out and take another visit and um I did so um the erosion controls I gave them uh direction to correct and tighten up some of the silt fencing um and then we proceeded to make a time a date to meet in the office um the applicant came into the office I um helps them walks them through a little bit of the application um filing process and uh we ran out of time and they seem to have hit a roadblock with the online um Ed uh online submission through um D so that was uh kind of put on the back burner I reached out again recently um to see if they had any progress they said they did not have progress um and I requested them to send a screenshot of the problem the issue that they were having um and I haven't received that yet and that is that is where that Trails off okay um so I seem to recall uh similar dialogue uh January February kind of time frame uh shortly after you started working with us where they sort of kind of were doing the same thing like it seemed like they were were going to do something but they never seem to manage to do anything other than you know uh rent uh excavator and and start um doing work in the back am I is that consistent with your recollection as well that's right okay so um maybe maybe the right thing to do here is to give them give them a chance uh to take the corrective actions but if we don't see any um you know they haven't actually managed to execute on what they need to do by the next time then maybe we need to actually issue uh some type of violation notice to put a little bit more pressure on them to figure out how to do the right thing so they they did have a violation notice issued to to them prior to my start did they are you are you suggesting a second notice be sent um yeah I think uh yeah I think so if that's you feel like that's the appropriate escalation um I think it would be appropriate to send a violation now um prior to the next meeting um and then if nothing if no action actually occurs by then uh such as filing and completing the filing then I would say that it should be escalated to an enforcement order okay because we've they've had chances to get this completed and they haven't put in that effort yeah exactly okay um so I'm looking for a motion to issue a uh second violation notice that compels uh compels that they complete the application uh by uh December 4th oh sorry Mike uh you have questions I in that second notice um are we able to put a um a fine number if they don't respond by December 4th that uh there will be a fine issued and I'm not sure what the appropriate find would be but to give them a little more urgency to um answer the violation before fine is levied yeah I'm not really um I wouldn't call myself a subject matter expert on this part of the process Sophia is that within our purview to to uh do or is that not uh within our purview to do with a second violation notice um I think based off of uh one other violation notice that went out um along the alongside the guidance of um Town Council um if I recall correctly I think a second notice is appropriate to contain a 300 uh $300 a day fine um uh worded in there somewhere um that would be included in the um enforcement order if it were to progress that far okay so it sounds like it's within our purview Mike so i' I'd be willing to accept to motion for a second notice that uh sites a $300 per day fine uh if they go past the they haven't completed their um their application by December 4 so moved we have a second second thank you and Jenny were you going to second or did you have a question or comment I second did okay he beat me okay uh yeah so roll call vote Jenny hi Chris hi Mike I and I for myself is there uh any other information that you need in order to execute that U violation notice s Sophia um no uh the the most important things were the um the date the deadline and um yeah next steps and uh fees fines sorry okay very good okay um any other uh updates on uh violations and enforcement actions um somewhat um 4 Fire Road 12 um last meeting the uh one of the applicants uh returned a certified male uh return rece SE requested um however the other applicant did not so um that had to be tracked down and I sent it via email on uh the 20 29th to make sure that they did receive it um as well as in the mail not return receipt and so they responded uh essentially with um they received it uh the loom and seed is applied however the remaining action uh is not clear about who uh What uh what and who should be doing this um they claim to not have any knowledge of the enforcement order um and and the if I recall correctly the outstanding action was the uh permanent barrier that's correct bers or something yeah okay um and they just proceeded to say that they they weren't aware of the enforcement order um a clear division of responsibilities wasn't established nor uh was signed by the neighbor um and they just they said please consider this an appeal for the remaining action what does that mean an appeal for the remaining action I I'm not sure I'm not sure um to me it sounds like they they don't want to be held accountable for something that they are supposed to be doing or they're objecting to it okay um so that was the last response I received by email uh I also have several um correspondences um backing uh the fact that they were aware that the enforcement order was indeed being uh written up and sent um and I wanted to talk to that talk about that with um somebody from the about what next steps are for that and so the last notification that we sent them what did that actually say in uh via email or the letter the letter um well it was a full enforcement order um WPA form um and it essentially I mean it sent it a while ago but essentially it told them that they needed to correct make the um uh Corrections Loom seed and establish um as well as put in the barcades by a certain date I don't remember off the top of my head what the date was but I'm sure I'm positive that that has uh lapsed by now yeah I seem to have thought it was uh end of Summer at some point in time but we're clearly getting into winter uh okay so yeah I'm I don't know what the next step is uh but uh it seems to me that this is this is probably going to end up being in appeal and so I think we want to keep um legal advice uh close at hand uh with Town Council I think you have spoken to uh Adam already a couple of times uh on this and Adam's last advice was to uh issue the enforcement uh order and uh and then that we would would be able to proceed with fines if there was no action is that correct um yes and then the the fact that they weren't receive or claiming to not receive the um enforcement kind of redirected myself um but essentially yes that's right yeah and and but you actually have have evidence in hand that they have received uh the information and had previously received the information yes yes okay do we actually need to take an action to uh proceed with uh fines or no if it was already issued in the letter um I guess that's the place where I have a question if we have to actually uh enact fines or no if that's already been decided when we issued the letter um I would have to I would have to look back at the enforcement order okay so I it's it's an unfortunate circumstance in my opinion uh because the uh you know this thing has drug out for so long uh there're two Butters that have uh you know encroached uh and that it's been uh it's been persisting for too long uh but you know I I want to get it closed out but I also want to do it in a way that it's uh the least encumbering for the town I am I'm pulling it up right now okay I don't want to wait anymore either um uh this this is the uh extented type of activity under that section MH the following order uh number oh you can share it if you want oh okay yeah that's probably easier okay inform to all outstanding action items described in the order by end of end date of October 2nd yeah okay is now November yeah it's very clear um I think we need to move to uh fines which is an you know an unfortunate uh State of Affairs but that's where we need to to move to have we notified them that uh did that um you scrolled through it Sophia did that actually have a notification of uh risk of fines for non-compliance um [Music] shall be subject to a civil penalty um to not exceed $25,000 for each violation each day or portion thereof of continuing violation shall constitute a separate offense okay wow okay uh so uh Commissioners uh what are your thoughts on on this one it's it's been drawn out for a very long time yeah I get the feeling they're just kind of jerking us around uh thank you for sharing that uh Sophia um Mike what are your thoughts so it sounds like there's a range of fines that could be levied here but not specific [Music] um somehow if there was a specific fine levied uh it would make it clearer to perhaps them uh versus well I mean this one this was pretty clear uh not more than $25,000 right Civ Civic penalty for each violation and each day May constitute a separate offense I'm not proposing that we jump to that right but I don't think coming back with you know and now we mean uh some other amount uh would be make it any more meaningful to them but what what did they tell you Sophia that they don't feel they're responsible for this um no that was just my interpretation their response was vague and they said um well I have it right here and they they have an option of showing up at these uh hearings as well right they're posted on the town uh website right so they have every every opportunity and have for some time of showing up to the meetings and you can zoom in from anywhere right you you be traveling in Europe and zoom in uh to one of these meetings to represent yourself Sophia are you trying to share sh share your screen I'm just seeing like uh like the top band I'm not seeing the any content the top of window so wait where did that go well the enforcement order I don't know where that went off screen um but right here in the center is the last correspondence with the please consider this appeal this you might be sharing like open goov um or uh your browser and not sharing Outlook because I don't see anything for Outlook I just see like a blank window interesting thanks for for letting me know um well I will stop and then is that any different yes that's great okay sorry about that um this is right here uh this highlighted this is the last correspondence that I had so by saying that the Town Administrator who was on the original order is not on the uh violation order uh what is that pointing out like who was the Town Administrator that was on the original order I think they meant Heather oh okay because I I don't know how that happened but it was like a joint orders of conditions with the town and well the property owner is actually the town so it was both a encroachment on Town property and then uh Wetlands violation so that area across the street uh is actually owned by the town so that that these um you know abutters had uh gone in and uh cleared and paved and and whatnot so that that may be why Heather uh as a representative for the town may have been on the previous one I don't know that that answered your question though Sophia uh yeah so is this the proper way to appeal Sophia I mean he States please consider this letter an appeal for the remaining action here so he's saying he's doesn't feel like it wasn't clear who was responsible to do the work so therefore this letter should serve as an appeal for the action that's not been taken by either him or his neighbor is that what I understand this to to say your guess is as good as mine um I don't know I don't even know how how you would what they're appealing to um and I haven't had a chance to reach back out for interpretation so if you're gonna appeal a uh decision right you you would have to by the Conservation Commission um under our Municipal bylaws you'd have to appeal to uh is it the state uh state court if you wanted to appeal our uh decision under the W the you know Wetland State Wetland part protection act you'd have to appeal to D that's right you would need to do either of I think you have to do it within 10 days of the um decision being issued um and we're well well well well past that um so it's not it's not actually it can't be considered an appeal to uh the actual terms of the order of conditions that that would not be the appropriate process it does it's not following the right time so here's here's go ahead Mike there there must be an official appeal process this response is certainly not that that's that's correct yes someone needs to tell the individual that he must follow the appeal process otherwise X Y and Z goes into effect which he feels he's not responsible or wasn't clear um but um Mike the appeals process is not even available to him now because he would have had to at least the way I understand it he would had to have appealed within 10 days 10 days all right that the order original order of conditions was issued and that's probably what a letter should be sent to him and explain and therefore because of that [Music] um you know you can um did you want to Levy those fines or do you just want to get the work done I I would prefer to just get the work done right but I don't want to be here talking about it in another six months or a year okay so if a letter was sent saying that the appeal process was not done in time therefore the work either needs to be done or the fines need to be levied whatever comes first and let him decide and he doesn't like any uh certified mail is there another official way of sending mail to this individual that there yeah so the problem is with certified that's why I send certified so we get something in response but it doesn't doesn't help when they don't they don't claim it uh on purpose or they're out of the country or whatnot um the only other way was confirming like I did via email um because just sending mail it doesn't confirm that yes it was sent but it doesn't cons con confirm that it was received by them physically um but the email did okay um I'm sure there are different levels of that certified process I'm sure the post office could help you or the town can help you um I think all that the post office can do is do certified mail right and if the people aren't there to sign for it then they notifi you know leave like the notice on your uh front door right and then you go into the post office and sign for it right and they never did they never went to pick it up um the attempts were made three times yeah that's a you in my opinion you should either be able to go pick it up within three attempts right or uh you know at least explain yourself show up to a meeting and explain yourself about hey guys I'm sorry but I was out of the town I was traveling or something and the fact that the person's not showing up here uh to me says a lot yeah they were definitely notified um by the Postal Service to come pick up their mail I'm I I'm okay with you know uh educating the person in that this is not an email uh doesn't actually initiate an appeal the appeals process is X Y and Z right and and that has already you know passed your opportunity that's fine education is always fine uh but I do think that we need to escalate this to uh fines in my opinion because we need to we need to get it closed out um that's that's where I am with it uh Chris what are your thoughts on this one yeah I I I think personally I I just think they're playing the system I think I think fines will will get things moving so I I agree with with your decision well it's an opinion it's not a decision um make decisions as a group yeah uh Jenny what are your thoughts here I agree that we should start looking at finds okay okay so the uh the notification letter that he received said that the work had to be done by oh what was it October 2nd that's right uh yeah um so I think we ought to uh send a uh an enforcement order uh or a second violation maybe a I don't know what's the appropriate term Sophie you you educate me on it but notify them that they'll start getting day-to-day fines if they're not compliant within 30 days from uh when you send them the letter that's that's what what my thought would be would it be a violation notice or would it be an enforcement order um so we already sent an enforcement order okay so then it would have to be an enforcement a further enforcement order yeah um I'm not sure you can send another enforcement order after you oh oh okay okay I think you just initiate fines which I haven't haven't done yet um but I know that there are some slips of some sort um that have to be now there's a whole process um but I was planning on talking to Adam Costa uh once once I get some sort of confirmation that um we have a meeting set I wanted to talk to him about how to to go about that um properly okay so then go ahead Mike I just want to say I think you you have to address his request for an appeal in this email saying that has to be established that the appeal process is no longer available to him because he exceeded his 10 days therefore uh either a is coming because of that um or you know put the two together so therefore the fine is being levied because you know you've exceeded the time limit for an appeal and that and once again I'm not a lawyer and I'm sure uh why don't why don't we do this Mike why don't we ask Sophia to get back to him and um back to the um to Scott and notify him that peels not available to him because of you know all the reasons that we've already stated yeah uh then uh we will as a commission maybe table this to our next meeting which is December 4 and uh with the expectation that between now and then Sophia uh uh meets with Adam Costa in office hours gets Clarity on the process for level levying fines so that then we would be in a position to make a decision about fines at the that sounds great Mary does does uh anybody have another thought about that or want to advocate in a different direction I'm I'm not I'm not seeing anybody's hand um Sophia is that clear does that sound reasonable yep I've been already trying to get something set with Adam but um okay I'll keep trying okay that's that's all you can do he's a busy guy and he's got a lot of you know big things that he's got to deal with so thank you uh anything else on enforcement violations um well 205 Sunset um we should be taking that off for the next um it was decided that uh by Town Council after speaking with them that the commission no longer holds the authority to um issue any type of um either enforcement or um hold them accountable after d steps in with their superseding order of conditions even though uh the bylaw may be more strict and okay and I think you uh circulated that to all of Commissioners yes uh I hope so if not we can remedy that um but yeah I think that's that's a good enough summary I mean in the interest of time I think that's a good enough summary for where where we are with that one and I and I agree we should take that one off the appeal uh supered order of conditions has been issued so that one I think is uh off this list okay anything else there um uh was brought to my attention that six7 Island Road had uh done some work that was unpermitted um and I do have photos of that I did a site visit I contacted them um excellent that's awesome oh shoot guys if I realized that that you were on for this we would have moved it to the beginning uh and and uh spared you some pain I apologize no it's been an education Okay Sophia oh I just I have photos um essentially they did some work um in uh regard to um basically a patio and some steps I'll just pull up my photos and and Jared and Melissa U thank you for joining us tonight maybe you could just give us kind of while Sophia is looking for those photos maybe you just give us an overview of what you did yeah I'm sorry you turn down maybe mute one of you so we had replaced a uh the patio in the existing foot bin on the patio I'm actually I'm embarrassed that we're even here I I don't think that I realized uh what was expected before we did the work so we had a patio we replaced it because uh Melissa's mother had actually fallen down a couple times on the failing patio we didn't extend footprint we didn't change the design of it and it was to facilitate getting to the deck better because otherwise she was walking on crumbling stones and uneven terrain um we were consider it and what we did um in that the pavers that we used are permeable um the idea was that it would drain better so we weren't creating like a runoff going into the lake I thought that because we were replacing a existing product you didn't have to go through the process or a process um something that we've used in the past like we had trees removed we applied to the Conservation Commission uh we had put in a brand new fence because the fence was new we came and talked to the Conservation Commission ignorance isn't an excuse I'm just trying to explain that I wish we had done it right and I want to make it right whoever was supposed to do that okay um thank you for that uh Sophia I can't hear you oh hold on sorry are you there now yeah I can hear you now soon okay yeah um and Sophia's do you have other photos okay so when we got the notice and again I'm kind of learning this as we go sadly it's talks about dredging and removing soils and that's there's nothing that was removed from the property MH and I'm not sure what dredging what the real description of dredging is it sounds like a pretty dramatic word oh that's just a generic blurb of action taken in a wetland or a buffer zone so as you look at this photo um you can see the concrete there um where it kind of Blends into the steps M that was literally we did an overlay of the concrete that was there extending out and then going to the front of the deck this and I if I if you want me to I could share photos that where that deck is this used to be a greenhouse uh it was roughly 10 by 24 which is the same footprint of the deck yeah let's see those um because when I I uh when I got the uh you know somebody called me and and reported this I went into um the town has uh this app called uh near map that allows us to look at historical satellite images and so I I went back and looked there uh and you know it did look like you had done some work um I didn't see the I didn't see the green houses in that that history though uh there should be an icon what kind of device are you using I'm uh so down at the bottom of the window usually there's like a little green arrow I got it [Music] okay so you see that Greenhouse there yeah we're looking at a um file uh structure yeah we're that's picture all right I can see a picture um maybe just move the window over on top of your one drive uh file structure hold on one second please I my actually built the greenhouse in 1976 I'm sorry guys I'm looking at it you're just not sharing right screen where does it say screen we're seeing this so close that in do you see that no no sh okay can you see that yes yes sorry I muted you so I'm sorry I pushed something that said visual search but the photo on the left is our house um that Greenhouse sits on a cinder block Foundation that measures roughly 10 by 24 uh and it stands about 19 in tall in 2013 you think a snowstorm collapsed that greenhouse and left the foundation existing so a halfhazard like outdoor space was built on that and then we refreshed it with fresh decking again thinking that we were using an existing footprint so it didn't require anybody to look at it or get permission to use it because we weren't extending anything off of the house or going closer to the water um after listening to several of your speakers tonight I understand now that regardless that should have been addressed by the Conservation Commission the deck itself in the patio measure 34 feet from the water and I understand that's well within the 50 ft um you know we took precautions in building it because she's lived in this house for three generations you know we're considerate of the environment in the lake and where we are yeah we didn't feel like we had a major impact and yeah so generally what we do and sometimes you know people through no Mal intent right find themselves kind of being ignorant of what the requirements are um and and I certainly understand that and I'm sympathetic with that uh what we generally uh require of people uh who find themselves in your circumstance is that you do a retroactive uh application um and in this case it looks like a a request for determination would be the appropriate um process to go through request for determination yes okay aside from the the form that that is what information needs to be provided for the request for determination uh it would be the uh what was there before um you know the approximate location to the um to the wetlands uh to the lake uh it would be what you've replace it with right and those Dimensions including the you know location to the lake what the materials are uh right and you know if it is uh as you said uh you know semi perious like what ensures that it's semi- perious like what materials to use for the you know for the uh in between the pavers and and whatnot and Sophia can uh give you some guidance about what you know information you would need to put in that RDA is there any any big items Sophia that I left out um I think you pretty much covered it all and um essentially when you go to to fill that out um open gov it walks you through and and asks you for the required documents oh okay so it's all it's all there um and if you do have questions you can just put it in the like make a comment and I'll I'll get it there and by email as well so one of the things that we had put off in the interest of doing the walkway because it was and I'll have photos for how it was deteriorating and show you like the reason for why it got replaced U we put off like painting the house and some other stuff understanding now that you know we're within that 100 foot buffer is painting the house does that require Conservation Commission to have an opinion too no okay um and as far as like seating the lawn down there or anything like that does that require any kind of oh seating the lawn that's a that's a good one that that probably is it um I don't know that anybody ever does it uh Sophia does anybody ask you about seating lawn they have not but I believe it would fall under a minor exempt activity that doesn't require any type of filing because it if it's already uh an established landscaped area they wouldn't have anything to do with um permanating yeah okay I know it seems like a silly question but as I'm listening to some of these other things I realize like maybe I was taking that for granted too yeah yeah yeah yeah certainly if you were removing any Shrubbery or vegetation uh you know permanent vegetation you you would to contact us about that yeah and we've talked to Matt marrow in the past for we had some trees that we took out and uh and replanted stuff to make up for what you know we went through that process so we can appreciate that it just seemed that seemed like a much more Dynamic change to and that's again ignorance is not I'm sorry well I I appreciate you guys you know working with us now and uh yeah we'll uh you know just submit the paperwork and uh you know we we'll get you in the process and on the right road is there a timeline to um submitting that uh we're getting into the holidays right uh so I I would prefer if you did it within 30 days uh since this is a violation notice um that's generally what we require of folks uh we plan on doing it right away I just didn't want to miss the deadline if it's a s-day expectant yeah it no thir I I would like for you to have it done within 30 days uh I'm just thinking about that is there anything in your Thanksgiving holiday plant that would interfere with that for us yes no this is a this is a priority this is the last thing well I appreciate that I appreciate that and you know where we have people that really try to work with us we also try to work with you right because you know the our shared interest is protecting the Wetland um and uh making certain the wetlands stay healthy so absolutely you know as long as we're all working together uh that's a good thing okay Sophia how could I contact you offline if I needed any help with this um so all the information my contact information as well as my assistance is posted on the town website okay awesome we'll jump right on this I promise okay very good thank you both all right thank you thank you for coming tonight yeah bye bye bye okay uh so moving along um new business so one one thing one thing that's come up within the last 48 hours uh well actually we'll we'll handle it under the Hollis roads uh residence say Mike I was going to talk about I don't know why there are two of me on here that's weird uh we were going to talk about uh that situation a little bit we'll talk about it during the Hollis Road residence updates um Jenny you sponsored a topic uh for uh discussion about open go yeah so I was meeting with Sophie and Brian jingis and Chris Riley um and we're talking about how there's an option to have the Conservation Commission site walk as its own component in opengov so that we can send an alert to the applicant that were coming at that time so they would get an email saying you know Conservation Commission will be there at this time and then also an option for one conservation commissioner to add photos Brian Jing didn't want everybody adding photos so he wanted us to appoint one person that could add photos if we wanted to you know move forward with doing the site walk aspect of open gov and also having a commissioner be able to add photos into open go I think it be a great idea um it you know most of the time when we go and do those S sidewalks people are surprised um which is you know not good for them and not good for us it's not good for our Public Image so I think it's a great idea I would nominate you to be the point person if you'd be willing to consider it I I would be willing to do it and I would second that okay so do we need to vote let's vote Chris hi Mike I I for myself Jenny hi okay uh yeah I think I think it'd be great to have that as a SE separate element that's tracked separately and that we use it as a tool to notify you know our uh our residents that are going through the application process I think that's really a great idea thanks for bringing it forward thanks all right thank you everyone um okay no update on title searches no updates on encroachment issues uh Grant update I don't have an upgrate update on the um Conservation Commission sponsored uh Grant I I understand the consultant is off and and working away on that uh lunberg snow Rider uh sponsored Grant snow Riders have received uh the uh power unit uh that all of that work paid for um and they're going through the uh paperwork to get it registered uh you know the great the great thing about um the snow Riders being the recipients of that uh of that ATV power unit is that uh I'm confident they will use that uh to help us be more efficient uh in uh doing our various Trails projects um and I you know I don't know how many of you guys are aware of it but I certainly am very much aware uh that sometimes it is a bit of a limiting factor trying to figure out how to get materials down a trail to repair a bridge or to build boardwalks or whatnot and having access to a power unit like that I think uh will help out a tremendous amount uh so that's really cool um Chris yeah I'd like to make a motion to um have a plaque U created so we can put that on there when they're doing work for the commission I mean it's Trail work but it's it's it's in tandem with the snowmobile club so I think we should have it I I think there should be something on there saying that this is Trail work being done um co-sponsored you know the snow bile club and the conservation committee like if if we're cleaning a tree up or whatever um I just want to know if um actually that's my motion uh so uh I'm not I'm not opposed to that are you uh are you actually making that motion uh on behalf of the snow Riders I'm making it on behalf of the consummation committee I want the plaque to say that the the the work being done if somebody comes across that ATV while we're out in the trails that that the work is co-sponsored between the snowmobile club and the conservation committee because that that machine is going to be used when we're on Corridor Trails you know we're on conservation conservation land I think that plaque should be out there um so yeah I'm I'm actually um motioning for us to make the plaque but um I'd like to hear what other Commissioners think okay folks what are your thoughts now is this a plaque to commemorate the fact that you were doing good work or is it a plaque to commemorate that you're working on the trails I I'm wasn't quite clear Mike it's more it's more like there you Ty it's very strange to see an ATV on these Trails they're not supposed to be out there so if there's a plaque out there saying that this this this is official Trail work I'm not out there going taking a joy ride down a trail um I see so it's more like a a a a work notice plaque that this is an official action sanctioned by the Conservation Commission and it helps everybody um yes that's exactly right that's exactly you you said it perfectly sanctioned by the conservation Committee in conjunction with the snowmobile club to keep the trails in good condition and if that if that ATB is out there it's for trail work that sounds wonderful Gris um and you have all of these skills to make this or is it something we're going to have to farm out what are your thoughts um Let me let me step back and think about that I think it's something we could handle we could probably do it through Staples it must just something laminated so let me let me get back to you on that okay all right Jenny what are your thoughts so is this way is this is something that would sit there all the time or would it just be there when you're grooming when I'm doing Trail work it would be on there if I'm grooming it would not um The Grooming is part of the conservation but if we're if we're cleaning up a trail if we're out there with a chainsaw um because a tree fell across the trail um this is a that type of work is um endorsed um by the conservation committee and performed by you know volunteers from the community well let me ask you a question Chris because um generally speaking uh whenever the snow Riders do work on conservation land yeah um and uh you know doing basic Trail cleanup uh they don't tend to come to the commission to do basic Trail cleanup because in the past that's always been something that the snow Riders were allowed to do if they did something that required a power unit to be out on the trail or where they were doing construction um or any type of uh big project they always came to the Conservation Commission about that specific project and got permission are you advocating that that that not be the process moving forward um or just to have a so that when that permission had been granted the snow Riders actually had uh some some way of like you know leaving a little placard on the on the ATV so that anybody walking past would just know yeah it's it's the ladder so for example there's a tree down there's a tree down near my area that needs to it's it's a it's what they call a Widowmaker it needs to come down and this isn't something um that snow build club would come in front of the commission saying we're gonna we're going to go out and you know take care of this tree we always did it ourselves and typically I walked down and did it but I'm very sensitive to the fact that if I use the ATV to pull the tree down and then cut it up I just would like to have it marked that you know it's been um it's an improved piece of Machinery to be out there um because typically ATVs aren't supposed to be out in those woods that's why I was very sensitive about being out there with a with a machine I wanted to have a plaque but I mean if somebody came up to me I can explain to them that I'm a commissioner and that this is an improved thing but I just I just thought having the plaque would be a nice touch that's all okay not a big deal either way I mean like you said that if we're going to get if we we like you said Mary it's very it's it's a fact that you know we do go out and we do we do work work activities as a club on Trails we've had the entire cabota out there plus other equipment and we've never really made a you know had plaques I guess I'm just being overly sensitive to having an ATV out in the trails uh by the terms of the grant uh it needs to have a uh Mass Trails plock made for it anyway I mean that's one of the actions that we have okay um the snow Riders have uh so that that definitely uh you know is required but you know I think it yeah I don't I don't really have a care one way or the other because I mean if it's just a laminated piece of paper yeah um it's an easy easy enough thing to do right as long as the snow Riders are actually using it when they're when they have Conservation Commission permission yeah I don't I don't have an opinion one way or the other I also think it's a nice sign of our cooperation between the two between the two um entities and we have a great relationship between those two um you know a perfect example is when we put up the kiosk that was a great um team effort between the consummation committee buying the materials and US building installing them and this is just another thing where you know um conservation endorses the work um so I think I'd like to put up I'd like to have something off the back of it just to show our you know how we work well together yeah I'm I'm I'm not opposed at all um Madam chair yes could the sign be magnetized is there something you can put on your vehicle does that make sense or you know what I think all of the uh fenders and everything are like fiberglass yeah okay so that would but but but I mean you know we could also do like a little Banner that's tied on there or whatnot too right that's a that's a straightforward thing to do and the snow Rider Club had been talking about getting banners that said you know uh they were work you know doing Trail work and whatnot to put on because as as Chris mentioned um there is a you know a cabota that stays generally stays in lunenberg there's a cabota that stays uh generally in the a Ashby area uh as well um and uh those are used you know with permission of the prevailing u local uh authorities uh to do to do Trail work and then in the winter time we have you know kind of Evergreen permission to do the uh winter grooming on the um you know approved snowmobile trails uh but the uh the snowmobile club had actually allocated some funds uh to get banners for uh you know basically saying that they were doing uh doing uh conservation work or Trail work so I would make sure you had enough of them so if there are more than one cabota going out you know that you don't have to say oh where's the signed today right well I I would think it would just stay like in the glove box or you know collocated with the uh with the units okay and Chris did you recall that the uh snow Riders had allocated uh funding for uh Trail work signs I don't recall that Mary maybe I missed that so maybe we they they had allocated uh not to exceeded $200 to get Banners To Go on the power units uh to designate when they were doing official Trail work okay um okay any other any other comments about that I do think it's a good idea uh you know Chris and and um even though people can ask a lot of times people don't ask it doesn't mean that they walk away without a thought or concern right so having the information out there I think uh is an opportunity to do some advocacy um both for snow Riders and the Conservation Commission and ensure people don't walk away with a misunderstanding and ensure people don't walk away and think hey he's using his ATV I'm gonna use mine exactly right it's exactly right so I think it's all I think it's all goodness yeah um moving along uh hollus Road residence Mike yes uh Madam chair I'd like to first start out by saying that the I got a request from one of the volunteers at the pollinator Habitat to refurbish the pollinator habitat sign that is located at the entrance on Hollis Road to go into the habitat right uh she was saying that the sign looked a little dated and it looked a little worn so she wanted permission to take the sign away uh and I'm sure she elicited this is Linda Hilson by the way she probably solicited the help of her husband Rick who I'm sure um took the sign down and I guess Linda's probably in the process of painting the letters back on oh nice so we should have a nice sign if it's not already already done and up I will check this week um but I was just checking to see if I still had I had a photo of it at one point um because I butly on it yeah yeah but I'm not finding it um I have too many photos yeah oh that's excellent that they um took the initiative to uh go and and uh improve that that's great yeah and did they um need any uh material funding from us or no uh Pro I'm sure it's minimal she hasn't come back with me with a list of pay supplies you know so you're just basically letting us know that somebody's done something wonderful for the pollinator habitat correct that's great yeah the other news I have about Paulis road is that uh I got word by Chris Ruth that we missed the cabinet at the ReUse um Habitat for Humanity by five minutes someone else came in five minutes before we did and purchased those cabinets that we had um uh did a um we had the price and um and between then Nick got sick with covid and could not get there and unfortunately when he did get there the cabinets had already been purchased so we missed that opportunity so um there was some other ones that were not as good and I because they were press board we said we don't want any press board cabinets so he says they usually get them regularly in so hopefully he'll and he goes in there often enough to be able to be um if he uh if there's something that's good he's going to uh make the purchase of those that we had yeah because we've authorized the fund so we've already authorized it correct and uh so I just wanted to let you know that uh plus today I got a chance to get a copy of the resident caretaker custodian license agreement that we have is do we want to talk about that a little bit or I think um yeah let's talk about that just a little bit but um maybe also uh you know if you could share it in email with the uh conservation commissioner so they could look at it you know at their Leisure would be helpful and you know just as a reminder to everybody we you know can't comment uh via email right but uh it'd be nice for you to have it so that you can actually look at it um okay so I got the signed copy of that agreement from Julie Bello today so I will attempt to try to share it uh this is I'm I'm uh generally not the best at this but uh I was willing to drop it off somewhere so someone else could do it because all I know is how to take a photograph of a sheet do you have do you have like a hard copy of it or something Mike yes I do have the hard copy oh uh yeah I I can get it and scan it and um PDF it okay that's an easy thing to do okay I didn't realize you had a hard copy sorry I just assumed she emailed you a copy no no I got the hard copy because I um so I have the original sign plus I have the original unsigned so there's two copies actually okay okay and umh so I just wanted to share that with you and um um as I said it's pretty clear what is asked of the lcy and what our responsibility these are and um so nothing uh I think everything that I thought might be in there is in there and uh so I'm sure um and it looks pretty straightforward and even though the original document was dated December 1st 2015 to December 31st 2018 uh the agreement does say that even though the those dates uh are passed it's still in effect yeah um so it's it's clear that there's an agreement for that property even though the initial uh agreement has lapsed but still in effect okay all right very good very good um so uh to update you so you know you you kind of reached out to me today and let me know that there have been you know some issues maybe at the residence that had been uh reported back by uh Nick as he was you know trying to do the you know his good work with the kitchen remodel and double checking the um measurements and whatnot and uh I I actually reached out to a uh a select board member who I know is in this industry to ask for uh his advice about how we might go about getting uh Better Property Management resources actually assigned right would that be through the town should we go out um to you know a public um kind of third party hire a third party property manager um and uh the select board member who's who's in this industry is as a profession uh said that uh you know the town had had really good um luck in finding people within this type of expertise area uh helping out and that that that was an Avenue that we should pursue um and he said that he may may be willing to do that as well wonderful yeah uh and uh he's gonna he's going to look into that and uh give me um give me a commitment uh you know uh next time I've actually asked him to come to the December 4th meeting uh to discuss this uh so uh we could maybe get some better advice at that time right about what he feels like he may or may not be able to do um and uh he did point out that uh you know the rent right now is severely under market and uh and he also looked up you know there had been a concern uh that Bob had related um about uh whether the the uh rent uh was only um was restricted to benefit only the um HS Conservation Area or whether it could benefit all conservation areas and his preliminary research said there are no such restrictions on uh how the town uses that uh Revenue oh that's interesting because what I read it sounded like um that the rent was supposed to go back to the account um but that's all it says yeah where dides it say that just say that in the lease agreement there's that in the lease agreement and it says the the rent is supposed to go back into the hos account to take care of the property okay so it it is in there it does yeah so uh according to uh this this advisor right um if that were a a hard fast uh restriction it would need to be on the deed and is not on the deed okay um and it or it would need to be uh in a conservation administered restriction uh and it can find no evidence of that with the um uh registry of deeds so uh anyway though uh one of the actions that I owe him is to make a copy of the lease agreement and uh share that with him so that he is more fully informed okay um that sounds good I I will connect with you after tonight it's to make sure you get those copies and uh yeah I can get them scanned and out to everybody um Chris you had some uh questions or comments yes um Mike the cabinets um what are the conditions of them because um I've I've done a lot of work on my own house and sometimes cabinets only need re re refacing like new doors what are the conditions of these cabinets I haven't seen them lately but um all the inside shelves are all warped okay okay and I've connected with people who do resurface the faces of and um it takes a long time and it's not really you know the hinges are questionable sometimes and um unfortun just trying to get a ballpark and what the issue was just the doors those can be replaced pretty easily yeah but there was so much else that's bad with these cabinets Chris unfortunately just wanted that no it was good definitely a good question to ask but uh Chris Ruth who's been in there kind of shook his head and said you know there's no saving these that's why we were going to the next step okay uh Mike you had another update about the pollinator habitat that I think you wanted to make certain was part of the public record in this meeting oh yes oh thank you for reminding me of that um I think it was the 21st of November um I got a text actually a uh a text but uh was asking me to make a call to one of the volunteers apparently there was someone who did a little Joy writing through the pollinator habitat on The Big Field that we have spent so much time in eradicating the poison ivy and we've well apparently you know someone who just got his license thought it would be a fun thing to go through the pollinator habitat and uh pull some donuts in that big open space um in the pollinator habitat and inadvertently hit the cherry tree that you know is being protected by some some deer fencing but you know if a vehicle comes at it unfortunately it um it was hit and uh so um I guess the habitat um volunteers gave notice to what had occurred and we found out who it was and apparently it was a neighbor and a neighbor's child and they asked for us then because it was his first time with his new license and car whether or not we could just bring it up at the commission with the promise of getting the ruts all restored in the cherry tree and the fencing that was damaged restored and so far that has occurred so I wanted to bring that up uh in lie of bringing in um you know having a 16-year-old um you know who made a mistake thought it would be fun but didn't realize that his fun was really damaging uh something that a lot of people took a lot of effort and care to produce so hopefully with the and I've heard so far that the restoration is underway and there need not be any more outside action if that was okay with the commission I I think that's great that you guys are working with the um person responsible and I understand the appearance of the person that's responsible and uh you know cuz you I I kind of think these days that uh you know we ought to reward good behavior people you know good people make mistakes and the you know the young adult clearly made a mistake and it sounds like he's being held accountable for that um so I think working with that family is the right thing to do right to help them make amends and might not make too big a a thing out of it okay and I've been there since the uh and the fencing and the tree has been kind of propped up and they're waiting until the spring to make sure to see if it's established correct we've had a big establishing uh discourse this evening so uh uh it applies here as well so uh very good fingers crossed that the cherry tree makes it um yes I agree thank you for your understanding thank you that's a lot that's a lot of updates Mike so thank you for all of that uh keeping track of all of that for us I really appreciate it okay uh any uh I don't have any updates from open space Jenny do you have any updates from storm water I have not met in a while so no I do not okay Al righty then um and I don't see any members of the public on uh to ask for final comments uh and we are not meeting on the 20th uh because Sophia is out hopefully doing something quite fun um our next meeting will be December 4th it is 9:48 p.m. I am looking for a motion to adjourn don't move second second roll call vote Jenny Jenny I thank you uh Mike hi Chris hi and I for myself thank you all a good have a good evening you as well