##VIDEO ID:pNRrIqk_hxE## okay start mine okay I was expecting another commissioner but maybe he'll join us up in a little bit we do have a quorum so we'll go ahead and get started um I will read the script welcome uh to the lenberg Conservation Commission meeting of January 29th in accordance with the requirements of the open meetings law please be advised that this meeting is being audio and video recorded the agenda lists all of the topics which may be discussed at meeting and those that are reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law please address all comments to the chair this meeting of the Conservation Commission will be held by Zoom at the link provided in this notice anyone that is uh joining via uh live broadcast and you wish to join us the link is uh posted on the Town calendar uh in the agenda uh and uh the meeting ID is 7927 37353 okay and I will start out with a roll call vote Chris present Mike present Jeff present than Thank you Rich no Rich yet and uh Jenny is traveling this week so I knew she was going to be away okay do we have any announcements by members of the commission Madam chair yes Mike I just wanted to um say we successfully had our heating system cleaning uh servicing done on Monday successfully and I passed along the invoice for processing so we should be in good shape very good and this is for the Hollis uh Hollis Road yes very good thank you for that update Mike and I did let uh Chris Ruth the facilities director know as well so he knowled that that got done excellent very good thank you and with no further uh commission uh comment uh we'll now have public comments uh comments from members of the public are to be limited to three minutes and uh must pertain to a subject matter under the direct jurisdiction of the commission comments about the current agenda items are to be made during the comment period of that specific agenda item please address all comments to the chair uh and you'll need to uh state your name and your address uh for the record and then also uh we ask just as a courtesy to use your reaction pane on the zoom window to raise your hand uh and if you have trouble finding that you can certainly turn on your camera and wave at me uh I usually am pretty good about finding that as well and if all else fails just uh let me know that you're waiting uh in an audible fashion I will call on you uh when the time comes okay so first up we have the Lake Shirley annual report and who do we have from Lake Shirley to update us on uh and go over the annual report with us I'm here uh bada the president of Lake Shirley at Wendy jenin will be doing the presentation and Dominic's here for the second half of our request so they both will be speaking to you today excellent thank you Joanna thank you guys so much for all you do thank you so okay there you are Wendy yep good evening uh thanks for having me uh my name is Wendy jenden I own and operate a consulting firm called aquatic restoration Consulting I am uh working with the lsic on their monitoring and compliance monitoring for the lake as well as just general uh Lake management activities so I'd like permission to share my screen uh yes let me change the setting here okay all right give me a second give it a second to populate and you should see presentation there we go yes excellent now if I can just find the slideshow okay great so I've been doing this for several years and I I understand that commission members switch out so um if I say anything that you don't understand or want for clarification or or terms defined please interrupt me I don't mind um stopping and and and and explaining something in further detail so as part of the Lake management I oversee the um the work that the herbicide contractor does the Solitude Lake management company Dominic from there they submit a pre-treatment plan I review that to make sure that we're protecting some Target species that we're trying to preserve in the Lake and then he presents that plan to you folks for the herbicide treatment I also oversee some of the volunteer monitors that the lsic employe and do some testing and plant surveys myself so I'm here to talk about the draw down and other items that are in the order of conditions for compliance and then we're g I'm going to turn it over to Dominic to talk about the plan for the Lake management plan for 2025 so the first item we we talk about is the draw down so we do a draw down to essentially lower the water level to allow the the shoreline to freeze and dry out the roots of plants to try to give some plant management of the lake in the draw down Zone our Target depth is about six feet we have not achieved that Target depth in the last several years mostly due to warm weather and precipitation this past winter we achieved a maximum of 5 ft uh in early J in January we had a significant rainfall and we had about 14 in between October in January this resulted in um very low draw down capability so we're not we wouldn't expect to see very much management of rooted plants based on drad down alone we also monitor for Wells because there are some drinking water low uh shallow drinking water wells around the lake and we pay attention to any reports of of dry Wells or sputtering and then we raise the water level back up um if if those complaints occur and there were no complaints this past year as you can imagine because we didn't even reach the target draw down depth the temperatures were above freezing for most of this period there were no fish kills reported during the dry down period and water was flowing over the spillway very early um by January 13th um the water level dropped about 15 inches between January and the refill date which was uh in March we also quick question yes so your um for crying out loud your first uh first statement says that you didn't achieve the draw down during the winter of 23 and 24 and I think that's really clear but then the indented uh line uh bullet under that uh is related to speak about October is that October of 2023 or October of 2024 is is 23 yeah okay do I have 24 on 23 October and January and we I just when you were when you were talking you you I think said but I might have misheard but I thought you said this past um which was what kind of got me a little discombobulated yeah it is kind of strange talking about the prior years winter when we're in the winter now so yeah talk about that good catch and I do talk a little fast so feel free to slow me down if I start breezing through stuff again we've we've given very similar presentations year after year so I'm trying to uh be respectful of people's time but also give you the information that you need to so however you want to me to proceed I'm fine stopping or speeding up okay and that last bullet the January 13th there is of 2024 or 20 uh 25 that is of now I'm confused of 2024 so this is draw down year 2023 so we start the draw down in October of 2023 and we have it refilled by uh March of 2024 okay what the draw down you see the draw down you see this year which is 24 to 25 has been really good um we have some nice freezing temperatures I don't know what the water depth is now but I'm hoping that we've we've at least reached close to that six feet but the weather at least the freezing part has been favorable so we should receive some um benefit of the draw down this coming summer so for we monitor what's called water Clarity we use this with a ski disc it's it's called a SE disc transparency value we look at this the volunteers do this on a monthly basis actually every two weeks throughout the summer um we Tred we the yellow line across the bars there that is essentially the five foot water depth if water Clarity drops below that level in our order of conditions we are required to sample for phytoplankton basically to look for algae because the thought is that when water Clarity declines it's usually because of an algal bloom and so we want to be very watchful of that occurring that may trigger um to engage Dominic and solitud to do uh Al algae treatment but thankfully they did not drop the clarity did not drop below five feet in this past year in 2024 summer and we did not have to um uh apply uh uh algicide South Basin is typically uh continues to have the highest Clarity and the lowest Clarity is generally in the north Basin and these figures are all in the annual report so we can reference those in in the future and feel free to follow up with me with any questions you have after this meeting this is just a look at the trend for seis transparency over the past five years what makes this interesting is you can see the differences between the basins um if you're not familiar with reading a box and whisker plots there is a little key that's included in the report but basically this this line that connects these boxes are the average values over time so in for instance in the north Bas in 2020 you know the average Clarity was about 6.8 feet and then in 2021 it was a lot lower it moved back up in 2022 so you see it kind of oscillates back and forth and some of that's probably due to weather some of it's probably due to uh phytoplank in density and and so on and so forth but what's really interesting is you see that you have the lowest Clarity in the north Basin and as you move through this is also this is the upper North Basin North Basin and this is the South Basin As you move South through the lake basically Upstream to Downstream um you see a de uh increase in water Clarity so water Clarity is the is less desirable in the upper North Basin uh while you're changing slides I just wanted to uh comment for the record that uh Rich B has now joined joined us as well thank you so we also look at dissolved temperature um dissolved sorry we look at dissolved oxygen and temperature profiles so we look at this through the whole water column so to explain this graph a little bit if we look at June of 209 June 19th of 2022 over here on the right is your temperature values and they are in degrees celsius so you'll see that the water temperature in June was pretty consistent through the water column and then it got a little bit colder near nearer the bottom and that's typical of lakes when they start to thermally stratify um this is a very weak stratification I wouldn't even call this stratification and then in July the lake lake was completely mixed which has a bit Wendy you went to mute unmute okay I'm moving my cursor and maybe that's what did it so I won't touch the screen uh if you look at July the temperature is straight up and down meaning that the lake is completely mixed I'm assuming this is because we've had some winds and it's a relatively Shallow Lake and it even though stratification was starting in June it got broken up in July and you can see a trend in August as well what's really what really we focus on here is the dissolved oxygen so under normal conditions you'll have ample oxygen to support Aquatic Life so that is above the 5 milligrams per liter threshold which you'll see in this dotted line here and that's our Target we always want to maintain above that because once you get below that you're you're starting to impact Aquatic Life thankfully oxygen in 2024 stayed above that line but in deeper lakes or lakes that strongly stratify you'll see that oxygen near the bottom um can almost be not nonexistent and that's because when the lake stratifies it the all the bi biological activity that still goes on in in sediment is consuming oxygen but there's nothing to replace that oxygen there's no good mixing there's no plants producing oxygen and that condition can result in phosphorus being released from the sediment which fuels algal blooms it's also as I mentioned before not very uh good desirable conditions for aquatic life but we're all we were all set in 2024 we didn't have any oxygen concentration issues right now I can't advance for some reason let's try that okay so then we also look at nutrients we look at total phosphorus and total nitrogen I'm going to talk about nitrogen first because um we had a little issue with the lab so when I was reviewing the labs data that they sent me at the back of their report they always do a quality control assessment of their own data and some of their data were out of their their range and I called the lab and asked them to to check and rerun and unfortunately they didn't save the samples to rerun them but uh so what I I just flagged these as questionable the numbers that you see usually under one milligram per liter is is desirable for total nitrogen we were fine in terms of that except for in uh July where that number is 2.18 to give you in 1.62 um in the the lowest the South Basin those numbers are more indicative of Wastewater and I do not believe that they're correct so I have them flagged as orange because I would not trust those data for any analysis or making drawing any conclusion so I would just toss out all all the data for um nitrogen for this year in terms of evaluating the lak's conditions so before I move on do you have any questions on on the nitrogen no questions for me thank you okay and phosphorus is the key nutrient that we're always concerned with for freshwater systems phosphorus is the limiting nutrient generally in freshwater systems it is the nutrient that if you can control its concentrations get them really really low generally you can control algo growth so that's why we always want very low phosphorus conditions so we target we look at values whether they exceed or are below 20 uh 02 milligrams per liter or 20 micrograms per liter and the lake was very good in terms of that threshold for most of the time except for one sample in July in the north Basin that was slightly above that value and this is a typical pattern that we see year after year that the north Basin which actually receives the the tribute the largest tributary that enters the lake uh so this is likely due to incoming water from the Watershed what I want to focus on this year is the end of the year plant survey um unfortunately we saw a net decrease in species richness in 202 2023 and we had similar results again in 2024 so 23 and 24 were were similar in terms of richness and richness is the number of different species we observe in the lake so we always want a diverse Community we do not want a community that's dominated by one or two species because that it reduces the habitat quality and also unfortunately the conservation species which are uh robins pondweed and coontail which are two beneficial native plants that we found after many many years have significantly dropped off in abundance in the lake so we watch those species very carefully there's a couple reasons why those species could be dropping off could be Lake management but I believe now that it is mostly related to competing with the super aggressive invasive fan wart and that's what I really want to talk about uh today so the community has been dominated by fan wart but this particular year it has gotten really bad 80% of the 66 observation Lo Lo sorry locations contain ctail just shouldn't say ctail should say fan WordArt I apologize there was was a 20% increase from 2023 and a 66% increase since 2024 so if you look at those those numbers here on this table what this is is the number of times we observed a particular species during our end of the year survey so if we just look at Fan wart across the board in in 2013 25% 25 sites of the 66 sites contain fan W as you go over time we're up to 53 sites of 66 so 80% of the sites are now contained fan wart so we're not getting good control of this this invasive plant and we're noting that it's knocking off some of the Native plants reducing the species diversity so what do we do um can I just ask you a quick question so in the text you mentioned the robins pondweed and the uh ctail yes and and I think you were saying those are um desirable species correct desirable species that have dropped off okay and is that why they were not in the table correct I just showed you a small portion there's a whole table in the report that has all the species and I just wanted to focus on the target species that we're trying to manage uh to reduce the density and increase and I can show you or you can refer to the the report or I can call it up if you give me a few minutes after we're done I can pull it up on the screen if you want to see um how coontail and uh Robin's pondweed has have decreased over time okay Wendy I I have a question this is kind of a this is kind of a general question the process of of of doing do gathering this data and Reporting on it is there the the the the time the response time if you if you find a a number that's alarming how quickly are you able to react to it are you getting data that's already a year old when you see something like when you see an elevated number how quick are you to respond to it is it take you know three months three weeks a year like are you always chasing something that now that when you get the information it's already a year gone by I'm just curious how you how you handle the issue and the the when you get get the data collected and and and analyze it so that's a good question so we have different reasons why we do the surveys so Dominic and his group does a pre-treatment survey every year so they go out early in the season and and and evaluate what areas need to be treated and then they do they formulate their treatment plan based on what they see now what you see in early in the season like June is not necessarily what you see come the time that I do my survey in September and why that is is biomass uh increases over the summer right and so for treating the plants you do not want to treat them at Peak biomass because you're going to have a massive die off and that die off can reduce dissolved oxygen and released phosphorus creating an alal Bloom so you try to treat the lake earlier in the season so what this tells me when I go out there and do and my survey is completely independent it's kind of um like an it's the same 66 sites over and over again and it's completely independent of what Lake management activities have gone on so you can actually see over time what is happening the intent of my survey is to watch over to make sure the treatment or whether it's the treatment or or Draw down or whatever whatever activities are going on are not negatively impacting the native uh plants and the whole ecology so there's two different reasons Dominic would be the one looking out for what do we look for to treat and his surveys we've kind of meshed my survey and his survey so so his surveys is in ear in the early season and what we found is they would end up undertreating because they do their surveys early and they didn't take into effect What was seen at the end of the year when I do my survey the end of the year kind of says there's a potential for these areas to get really really bad so just last year I think Dominic you can correct me if I'm wrong we started taking your pre-treatment survey and then looking back at end of your survey and targeting the areas based on that okay so you guys I see what you're doing you've dialed it in over the over over over the years you're figuring out how to work together got it correct but the whole point is mine is more for you guys as the Conservation Commission is getting an independent evaluation on what's going on in the lake okay um even though we were close yeah that was a good explanation thank you and Wendy or Joe when did we get the latest report I was looking for it in our um Conservation Commission meeting folder and I didn't see it Wendy sent that in December I I'll look and see if I could get the exact date that'd be helpful thank you the order requires the report to be filed by December 15th if that's helpful okay keep keep going just look in the back back around so this is the treatment that Dominic's group did this particular year in in um 2024 you'll see that they treated in July and they used Tribune and um copper product they treated about 59 Acres of the lake um so he he'll be available to ask questions regarding the treatment that happened this year uh this sorry this past summer but what I want to focus on is because we've seen such an uptick of fan wart we're realizing that the treatment plan that we've been following along hasn't really done a really good job so this summer we're asking for and I say we're it's really lsic and the and Solitude are asking to do a uh whole lake flone treatment um we've done it in the past on this Lake but haven't done it in in many years we still want to do the implement the target six-foot draw down which is currently going on and we're still planning to do the water quality monitoring program this summer but um I'm going to pause here and I'm going to let Dominic talk about U maybe this last year's survey and and treatment and then talk about what he believes should be done this year to try to cut back on some of that fan wart I mean 80% of the sites containing fan wart is not a pleasant situation yeah thank thank you Wendy has a great uh great explanation of everything um just just to to start out with a note I mean fan wart has been in the lake for many years uh it's it's a it's a more difficult plan to control uh I wouldn't say we've been ignoring it be because of that fact but early on in the program the draw Downs were working often enough that it was sort of keeping the fan wart in not under control completely but at Bay I guess is the right way to put it uh now we've had like three or four years of poor draw down conditions and and we're clearly seeing that on the lake um just the fan wart continues to expand it continues to get more dense um there there's only two herbicides that work on fan wart one of them we have been trying to use occasionally we' we've treated different Coes around the lake and initially we're having some good success but that's the flum Oxys in her herbicide some folks may know it as Clipper um that that unfortunately is uh not it's a contact herbicide it doesn't kill the roots of the fan wart uh at best it clears it away for the season you may be still seeing some effects the following year but it's it's fairly rapid regrowth so we've been trying to move that use of that herbicide around and some of the Coes um there's also some additional restriction restrictions on how often you can use that particular herbicide that's been in put in place by D so it's it's its usability is very limited um the whole lake flone is really um for fan War control flone really is the the herbicide of choice as Joanna will tell you it's it's very expensive works very slowly um hard to treat spot treat uh so it's best use as a whole type of a treatment and this is actually a very similar for those those of the Commissioners that were here for a bunch of years we this is the whole lake treatment we did at Hickory Hills Lake in 2020 is very much similar to what we're planning to do at Lake Shirley um so again yeah just given this obvious increase in fan wart uh lack of it really any other good ways of controlling it the fan watch really taking over the Lake uh as Wendy said it's not only causing a problem um with dense growth but it's clearly also causing a decrease in some of these other desirable species um because it's it's just really um overabundant and very aggressive plant so our plan for this coming summer would be to conduct a whole lake flone treatment um the treatment as I said earlier it takes a long time to work it takes requires about 90 plus days of contact time with the fan W to work it's very slow process it's also very low concentrations that we're keeping in the lake so we'll be uh we'll be talking about parts per billion um of application concentrations um because the herbicide does take a long time to work and it does break down over time um we typically have to do um an initial treatment um and then we monitor concentrations of the herbicide in the lake and typically we'll do two to three uh followup applications about two to four weeks apart um and try to keeping that concentration at the lethal level for the fan wart that lethal level we expect is going to be somewhere probably max out somewhere around 8 to 10 parts per billion but we'll be trying to maintain you know at least four parts per billion somewhere between four and 10 parts per billion for that 90 days uh and we'll be using two different formulations of the herbicide one is a pellet formulation that um is applied as a granule it releases the herbicide slowly over a period of of weeks May supplement that with some liquid herbicide to give us quick increases in concentration if we need to do that um so the treatments will start in late April um and we really probably continue right on through till uh July um and we'll be monitoring the plants and effect on the plants uh the level of mortality of the plants will be monitoring the concentrations as well to make sure that everything's working well and the Hope really is after this is all said and done that we'll have nearly 100% um elimination of wart and because flone is a systemic herbicide we expect that control to last for two to three years of of really good control we do we will start to see some regrowth we're hoping that we can um go back to using the flum Oxys and herbicide in small areas where it starts to pop up um but this really is the real the kind of the optimal way um to manage fan War when it gets to this point um trying to think what else um yeah soan that's essentially it we we won't have to be doing any other treatments this year there won't be any diquat treatments um or not copper treatments except if we should see um if we have a year where the nutrients are a little bit higher and we and we get a bloom there's always a chance we'll have to do a copper sulfate treatment um but the this will be like a summer long process um to kind of reset Lake Shirley's fan War population we'll be again I guess the one final thing I'll say folks that have been here a few years you know we usually come in and do a a pre-treatment survey in June put together a plan uh to present to the commission for approval uh at this point we we know exactly what we're going to be doing next year we're going to be starting the treatments very early there's there's really going to be not going to be any need to go out and uh do a survey um and decide you know what areas of the lake are treated so I think we're we're really in a position here where we've got this full plan in place and after you folks are done after we're done presenting and you guys answer any questions you may have we'd really be asking we're at the point where we could feel like we can ask the mission to go ahead and approve our treatment plan now uh given the given what we're planning to do so happy to go into any more detail about anything there I'm sure Wendy both Wendy and I if you have questions about any part of the presentation or the treatment or any general questions we' be more than happy to take those questions thank you Dominic um so couple of questions that I had uh does Lake Shirley do any hand removal of uh invasives they don't no and in your opinion would it be more effective uh I mean you know right now you've got an overgrowth but in terms of Maintenance would it be more effective if that type of hand removal program was put in place uh when when regrowth starts to come back uh you know hand pulling is always an option um so yeah that's something that could be looked at um I know it's it's very labor intensive requires a lot of volunteer effort um Andor hiring contractors so and in my experience um it it's helps but keep slows things down a little bit but it does not um doesn't stop it in its tracks like you know you may be able to squeeze another year or two uh out of that early season regrowth with with some hand pulling but eventually you're going to get to the point where hand pulling is really only only efficient on very small areas with very Trace Amounts of growth so um you know that it fan wart typically will will get through that type of regrowth fairly quickly okay so um it sounds like you're saying that maybe it's uh helpful as a maintenance um measure uh but not in and of itself a solution yes okay yep that's a good way to put it yeah and then uh in terms of uh the treatment plan uh the herbicide and treatment plan and the amounts that would be um used would not be harmful to the fish of the lake or aquatic mammals that's correct yeah just like all the all the Aquatic herbicides that we're allowed to use in Massachusetts they've all been um gone through the review process at the federal and state level and Massachusetts I will say is has a very one of the most expansive State reviews of these products you know many many states just kind of rubber stamp the federal review but Massachusetts does a pretty thorough review on their own as well um for this particular herbicide um this is one of the few aquatic herbicides that are it's actually allowed to be used in directly in portable drinking water reservoirs the maximum contaminant level for fidone the active ingredient EPA for drinking water is actually 150 parts per billion and as I said we will be lucky to see 10 10ish parts per billion at at the peak level over the summer so we're quite a bit and and the the maximum label rate application is 150 parts per billion as well so we're definitely way down in the um low end of the dose range this this particular herb herbicide is also categorized as a reduced risk herbicide by EPA yeah so there's been never with this herbicide been any kind of toxicity uh on any kind of uh animal life uh it's very very specific to the photosynthetic pathway um on Plants so okay very good uh Chris you have a question yes thank you Dominic um two questions I was wondering how long you've been using FL flone and have you seen any um herbicide resistance over time to flone yeah so the flone originally got registered in the late 19 mid late 1980s I believe so it's it's been used for quite a long time so there's a really long track record with this particular product uh in terms of resistance uh the only the only resistance with flone that I've heard of I've read about is um down in the southern states uh on hydrilla which is another highly invasive plant that by the way is working it has worked its way up into New England over the years and is spreading uh pretty rapidly in the Connecticut River and some other places but that is the only uh resistance kind of situation I've ever heard about on flone okay thank you thank you Chris uh Rich oh Rich hi Dominic how are you oh good Rich how are you not bad at all hey just a couple quick questions what was the uh Target rate in Hickory Hills because I know we had some pretty good success with the control there initially yeah it's essentially the same the same plan uh it's a very similar sized Lake um you know both have moderate size Weds so you know one of the ways that this the flone gets broken down is by fresh water coming into the lake uh so yeah I think that we're in terms of like the parts per billion uh concentrate Target concentrations are going to be pretty much exactly the same as as what was done at Hickory Hills okay 10 was what the target was there in Hickory Hills the same thing I think we um I think there we we were trying to we were hoping to get up to 10 as at the peak I think we maybe only reached eight there um uh but we were we were kind of maintaining um three four five six parts for billion for actually for that Lake it for Hickory Hills ended up being probably well over 90 days uh hit a peak of about eight parts per billion and is there a plan to control the outflow of water in the lake to help keep the concentration at a nominal level yeah you know I mean with the with the extended contact time that's required in the long kind of treatment period there's really not a lot we can do to prevent outflow so we have to kind of account for that to some degree I mean I mean we'll certainly hope that we have a normal kind of amount of rainfall this summer or maybe slightly less than normal that will help with that but um you know we could try to lower the lake a little bit before we do the initial treatment but that only buys us a c a couple days a week maybe depending on we can't draw it down too far and it's it fills back up very quickly and then you're kind of back to square one there really no good way to be able to control the outflow okay so just monitoring every how often do you monitor the concentration in the lake yeah so typically with the the applications are uh you know two to four weeks apart um so usually in between the applications or about about two weeks after each application we'll go up visit the lake we'll we'll check the plants see how the herbicide uh effects are progressing in the plants and grab some water samples in different parts of the lake and have that tested for um the remaining concentration of herbicide and that and that helps us decide should we push up the next treatment push it back a couple week or move it up a week helps us decide how much exactly to put in to bring it up to back to where we want it and you can turn those tests around pretty quickly yeah 48 yeah oh super because I know that's sometimes a problem with the um the algae and the phyto toxins it takes a while to get those things turned around it's a real pain yeah the the manufactured has a lab and and they um we collect the samples we overnight it they get it the next day and usually the day after that we get the results back so it's pretty quick oh that makes it much easier great yeah all right super that's all the questions I had Madam chair thank you very much Dominic thank you okay uh I'm not seeing any more hands raised by members of the commission were there questions from members of the public bear with me I'm trying to find my hand oh that's okay I just also want to let you know Dominic and I went uh to Shirley conservation yesterday and they did approve it as well so we did get approval last night from them just so you're aware of that yeah thank you for that I'm trying to raise my hand as well and I can't find it okay John it's your turn anyway make it easy uh John Fortune 50 Hemlock Drive I did have a question and it's a couple of observations uh one as has been mentioned yes Hickory Hills went uh through the flone treatment and we feel it's worked well uh we did do as Richard asked uh we tried to lower the lake first to try to buy us a little bit of time up front to get the concentrations high and working well uh so that all worked but the other thing that I haven't heard anybody talk about is so when we elimidate all those plants that are consuming phosphorus in the lake um The Following year we had allergy problems we had more allergy than we had seen in the past so to Wendy or Dominic somebody uh I'm not sure one if you've shared that with uh Lake Shirley but two kind of what are your thoughts on that what should we expect next year uh when now those those phosphorous eeding plants are no longer there yeah I mean I can take a crack at that and Wendy can add add on um so I I mean both Lakes have a pretty uh robust native plant population so um you know and we hope that by controlling the fan wart that we'll start to see some expansion um into these historically fan wward areas of some of these other native species hopefully the conservation species that Wendy talked about the robins Pawn weed and the coontail um but you're right um you know the the die off of the plants with flone is very slow so we don't see a plug of nutrients usually during the year treatment but it it definitely changes the Dynamics of the lake the vegetation dynamics of the lake and by removing a plant that had been at 82% of the points yeah we we obviously are going to have a lot less vegetation biomass in the lake next year and that may change the nutrient Dynamics but that's usually especially with lakes that have a robust native population to maintain that nutrient phosphorous processing um it should be relatively shortlived I think the the benefits outweigh um the potential for slightly increased re increased risk of algae blooms um so I guess that's the hope there is that the plants will come back other types of plants will increase that be able to increase their growth and be able to mitigate that phosphorus yeah certainly we have seen that we saw a lot of grasses come back first and now we've seen a lot of the lies and all that have you know have come back uh so and I'm not advocating against I'm advocating for it as well um but I think there are other things that happen and people should just be aware of that that's all point so Dominic uh you were saying that as the as the uh invasives die off that that gives room for the native population in both Lakes to kind of expand and and those populations are exist uh in both Lakes yes so yeah there's a lot of native species um if you look a little closer at at the reports I mean there's a a number of of native species in the lake tape grass native niad there's water lies several different types of Pawn weeds um ni I was just recalling that um that Wendy said that there's and I wanted to dial in what she was saying versus what you were saying she said there wasn't a good diversity of um natives in uh and maybe I misunderstood in Lake Shirley yeah there's like maybe I don't know when day if you want to take that but it's basically it's um the diversity is not maybe not that great and decreasing because there's a dominant dominance by aside from fan order dominance by many of the same types of native species like they're the native species aren't as well distributed there's a couple of them that are very widespread and most of the other ones are very spotty and only found in a few places but okay yeah if you'd want me to answer yeah exactly uh we've seen the diversity decrease over the years but there are still a fair amount of of of native beneficial plants on the lake okay thank you for that clarification Mike just a question Madam chair uh is have we ever attempted or is it prohibitive to try to um actually introduce new native plants after uh a subsequent um removal of uh invasive plants and um actually plant some native plants to see if they take in root uh is that something that could occur quicker on the restoration of native plants in our Lake just asking who wants to take that one Wendy or uh Dominic uh I'll start I we we did try one of those and Dominic may recall back in his act days we tried in dud I forget what pond it was but it was out in um duberry where we actually removed some fan wart I think or it was mil oil with a physically removed it with a harvester and then we tried to seed and we actually planted some Robin ey of robins Pond weed and we probably had some success um but the first year but it wasn't lasting and it's really about the plant taking control itself like there so probably three or four years later it was robust um density of the native plant but I don't know if it was 100% attributable to the planting yeah and I nature kind of is more effective at it than than humans trying to manipulate it yeah it's an idea I've heard about all off and on but I I I also have not heard of many success stories um or many projects that I've actually tried to do it it's actually apparently is quite difficult to try to get those aquatic plants back in and the the lake as long as there are some native plants left in the lake the nature is much better at repopulating that than people are it's a good idea though Mike okay just asking I'm thinking while you know during a draw down you've got this open uh area where wow we could all walk in and and just plant plants and see what happen but you're saying it's been tried is it expensive uh based on the success you might get or it's very difficult to plant plants in the lake um you know it's it's relatively some of the shoreline emergent grasses and stuff like that it's pretty easy to plant but in terms of submersed plants and collecting viable specimen of a plant and then transporting it to another Lake and planting it and having it survive is I gu is really difficult to do okay yeah thanks Dominic you're welcome and so I did find the report uh it was sent on the uh 14th of December uh to to me and then to uh LCC at lunenberg mass.gov I've S I forwarded during the meeting uh forwarded it to the conservation Commissioners and then also uh Sophia uh to you and Maddie and asked you to get it into the uh meetings uh folder in the share Drive Wendy I did not see your slides though sorry correct yeah I don't submit the slides but I can certainly submit them after um this meeting and I will clean up a couple of typos as I went through it I found okay yeah I I'd appreciate that uh since it's part of the record uh now since you've read through them and presented them and I I think your slides actually have the proposal uh that's before us I don't know if that's in the report it is it's towards the back but I can put it back up on the screen if you'd like yep that would be helpful sorry for the delay I had closed the presentation let me get it back up and if I may at the end of the report as of the appendix I includeed uh solitudes report that has a little bit more detail in this table okay thank you I was just referencing that uh okay so I think I'm I looking for my Commissioners to uh either make a motion to approve uh this treatment plan as presented or uh or uh to uh you know uh say what they would prefer to see or the timing of that so moved okay so uh your your motion uh Chris is to accept the treatment plan as uh presented yes okay do I have a second second okay I heard a second from uh je rich uh I'm calling on Rich since he has his hand raised yeah I just want to ensure that um all of the testing results are sent to the office uh yes so you want to add the condition uh to the plan that all the testing results uh outlined in the plan or sent to the office yes yep within a week of receipt or do do you think there's another time expectation uh prior to application okay okay thank you Rich uh and Chris is that um additional stipulation um are you willing to take that on board with your motion yes and Jeff you with your second oh that's correct yes okay very good uh roll call vote uh Rich hi Jeff I Mike I Chris hi and I for myself great thank you very much folks I appreciate it appreciate your your time and your support thank you so we will move along to the lake Shirley annual report I'm sorry to the Hickory Hills annual report gonna say what what happened to me we're gonna do this again I know I know I'm a gluton uh yeah well they're a lot they're a lot better looking than I am so you probably were're better off with them all right can I uh thank you John and uh yeah maybe state your name and address for the uh record sure it's uh John Fortune I'm at 50 Hemlock Drive and I'm speaking today for Hickory Hills landowners Inc I'm going to see if I can share this there we go all right can you see that yes perfect and we will begin so this uh presentation put together uh with a bunch of data um generated by many volunteers on the lake as well as our Lake scientists right so per our order conditions which was issued in July 20 uh July 25th 2022 we'll go through a bunch of this data that is here uh unfortunately I'm not quite as succinct as Wendy is uh so I do have more slides than she did I do have one question on the date when it was issued it was issued um uh as a 5year plan the order of conditions I have since heard that those may be extended so is that true in these or um is it still five years well that's a great question I don't know I'll have to look into that and uh get back to you uh John um I don't have the uh the uh the language in front of me that's okay uh I just wanted to put it out there and see if see where we're at make sure we're not too early or too late so let me talk a little bit about uh the scientists that we've used that you've uh just met I didn't realize at the time that that was they were going to be with us um but although we do have our own volunteers we do depend on uh Arc with Wendy Jen of course and and our uh friend who we've been dealing with for a long time Dominic marangola we depend on him for all of our CH chemical applications uh he's been doing that for quite a long time I don't think either of us want to talk about how long it's actually been that he's been helping us on the lake so our resident Center scientists we monitor the lake um and by lakes I'm talking about the main Lake heer Hills Lake as well as what we call little Hickory and I'll show a map in a minute that uh for those who are not familiar with the area uh can see it but in our monitoring uh we do a lot of the stuff that's been talked about that's been done for Lake Shirley but we also have our own uh organized surface monitoring but we're looking for fan water other weeds or problems around the lake uh we have a dive team which I'll talk about uh in the next couple of slides who are focused on fan wart um and of course uh again our our test Tes in our water quality testing our plant surveys Etc that are done throughout the year so fan water is our biggest problem uh as you know we've been dealing with this since 2011 uh we hicker Hills landowners Inc uh through the private funds that we raise here have spent somewhere between 5007 $750,000 trying to uh control fan warts we've spent a significant amount of money and and continue to do so it's uh kind of is what it is so as president of hhi of the corporation I could not be more impressed or humbled by the uh fanw survey and dive team this group of people with 139 Dives this year uh two divers each two hours a dive spent almost 600 hours underneath the water of the lake survey pulling weeds uh pulling fan wart weeds Etc they really are our best tool for understanding what's going on uh on the bottom and of course you know again we use our scientists but they have all this data as well so as Dominic mentioned we've talked about uh 2020 we did a whole lake treatment for fan wart in 2021 uh we had divers pull uh the weeds that we found across the top line there uh through 3,821 as you can see uh over the next series of years or the next three years uh that number is increased significantly which we would expect fan War grows exponentially so in 2024 this uh group of people pulled 68,000 uh fan wart plants out of the lake we uh through that time we've also uh done some uh treatments for fanw and some areas I'm going to talk about that one in on the next slide uh but in 2024 we did 10 areas of small treatments about 16 Acres that we did to kill the fan wart with Clipper uh and all that really does is it kills the surface weeds that are out there it does not kill any of the roots which is why they come back John quick question on this slide sure um it's it's not apparent to me from looking at the data uh is it the fan wart population increased or are you getting more plants because you know eradicating more plants because you've got more divers and more coverage no we're getting more plants because they're closer together that's why we're getting more plants so yes it is it is growing and we know that are the areas of concern so the the second the second Road there the areas concerned in 2021 there were two there were 10 in 2024 I think there's 15 I'm going to ask for at the end of the presentation so there are areas larger areas of growth uh that are happening um so it is it is doing exactly what uh Dominic just told us it would do and that is it is continuing to grow you never kill it uh completely you only slow it down a lot and then it can it eventually begins to come back and that's what's happening okay yeah so the flumi treatments again that were mentioned uh before this is what we did in 2024 uh we use it in these areas and basically early in the in the spr we did it in I think it was June last year uh and that wipes out the plants in those areas as it beginning to grow but it doesn't kill them forever it really just slows them down or wipes out the initial plant and then the roots survive and they continue back on so they eventually come back um when we were working with ESS they were suggesting to us that uh we should do chemical treatment in areas that are over 10,000 square ft or when hand harvesting we couldn't do it in just a few hours uh so these were the areas that met that criteria last year you'll see when we get towards the end they're additional additional areas for 2025 uh but when we do this and we do these concentrated areas um the rest of the lake is uh where the divers can spend their time I'm not can you see my cursor I can yes you can okay great uh for those who don't know the lake this 5 acres here is a little Hickory there is a Road between it so it doesn't really drain or flow right back and forth on the lake there are there are covers that go through there they're but they're above they only water only flows through them when the water is really high so this time of year when it's draw down like that there's no water flowing that way and the rest of the lake is the 315 Acres that we typically talk about all right so water quality test data we have been taking water quality test data for a few years now um but as we got into um talking to and and learning from Wendy Wendy it became apparent that we may not be doing it well um so and some of our data in the past few years especially our phospherous data is probably suspect um the ones that we took so what we did is uh we asked uh Wendy to do all the testing so we could get a new Baseline and start from there so that's really where where we're going now so this is the map of the lake uh these areas here hh1 uh hh2 3 these are the areas where the testing was done along with little Hickory uh one all right so these were for water quality testing because there's another map that's going to come up later uh which is where we did the uh plant survey so this is water quality testing so for water quality testing there's a ton of data here I don't expect you to read through it the things that'll stand out to you are the pink ones but let me talk a little bit about it there is first uh total phosphorus then the uh second row and this is done so let me help let me back up again this is point HH one these are the dates that the information was taken the information was taken at the surface and at the bottom of the lake and then this is what we were collecting so total phosphorus total uh kol nitrogen uh nitrite and nitrate total nitrogen and then uh total suspended solids right so as was just mentioned in the last presentation we're looking for 02 in total phosphorus for the uh kyal nitrogen we're looking for less than 0.5 that's most desirable nitrate and nitrite uh less than 0.3 sorry3 total nitrogen 3 to 1.0 and then um the total suspended solids is really a relative number but the lower the number the better so we picked Wendy picked uh some of these areas that she High highlighted uh that basically show yeah we're above that 02 number on the bottom uh at certain times of the year it's not consistent across the board it's not consistent across the lake um but there are areas that we need to begin to watch a little bit closer right so now with clearer data we know that uh in these areas we should be watching especially in the bottom and we'll talk about it in a little bit but you begin to wonder then is some of the sediment or whatever adding to our phosphorus loading in the lake um so not only is there what phosphorus in the total in the water column but phosphorus sitting in the bottom of the lake that may be being released all right similar data for little Hickory uh in this one we had only one time in September on the bottom and the bottom in little Hickory is probably probably 10 ft whereas the bottom of the mid link maybe 18 ft um but there was one time when it was 026 so which is a which is good right across the year went well but keep in mind that we also did a pack treatment and we've done pack treatments over the last four years um putting uh I'm sorry it's aluminum sulfide I think Dominic correctly if I'm wrong there but an Alum treatment if you will to B basically absorb the phosphorus that's in the water and pull it to the bottom uh and then it holds it there it doesn't allow it to release to get back out into the water column uh so there's a chemical reaction that happens with that and so that probably is really helping uh little Hickory to maintain some pretty decent numbers across the board so the other thing we have is uh a long history of collecting data and so we have total phosphorus at the surface level for nearly uh 30 years started in 1996 this is some uh data that when he put together as well so out of this I kind of look at it and I would tell you that there's a general Trend uh two general trends that I that I can see out of this and uh one is that in the main Lake the phospherous the general trend is that it's going up and in little Hickory the general trend is that it's going down but again in little Hickory the reason is likely that it's going down is because of these treatments we've been doing to try to pull it down uh so that may be helpful and it may be something that we do uh at some point in time in the main Lake certainly not in 2025 or in the near future phol Plankton samples I think in us I actually changed the name of this today um I think I have algae samples in yours but it's truly phytol plankton so you look at this the top two graphs are the main Lake both cell density and biomass and the bottom two graphs are a little Hickory but I wanted to show them side by side because I'm sure all your eyes tend to go to this one uh which is here and here this is kind of a a good story um our numbers in general are reasonably low and this was July August and September on August 5th this was the main Lake out in the middle of the water body and on that same day was near the beach and the beach at that day had a scum layer on it an algae scum layer uh so what was done basically was a sample of that was taken to better understand what exactly that scum layer was made of and we found that it's uh cyanop feta which is which is the basis of cyano bacteria right so most of the lake was not affected it just happened to be there and the uh the data was taken for for the specific purposes of identifying what it actually was so then looking across if we like say okay so we know that our number the U uh massachusett DP says if you get above 70,000 uh cells per milliliter you have you should have a concern across the lake so that's our our red number if you will here that's the number we try to keep under across the board in all our Lakes um and so we've done that in general except for in the scum layers so basically what we have done and we've done this consistently the last few years uh out to our uh community and that is if you see a scum layer stay out of it not very appealing to go into it anyways uh but that particular day or most of a week of that week uh three or four days sorry uh we Clos the main Beach cuz that's where this was and then it washes back out out goes away moves away and uh we're able to um allow folks back in again all right so that's really the story there identifying what we have the types of phytol Plankton that we have uh and how much is it and where we seeing it and the same in uh little Hickory the oops sorry little Hickory the numbers there are are uh much lower and pretty much contained addition data is found in the arc report I hope you did get that I did send that I believe last week it might have before and we do have that posted in the um in the meeting folder thank you John yeah it's uh fascinating there was a ton of data uh in there so that does show a lot of the dissolved oxygen uh what what uh was found from the grab samples the chlorophyll Zoo Plank and pH conductivity idity and transparency so the other thing we do yearly is an annual plant survey if I had thought we could get away with 66 spots I would have done that years ago because we did 2011 and let me tell you it's a lot more expensive for 2011 than it is for 66 but this is what we've been doing we've been doing typically 200 somewhere around the 200 number and so this is what we have so 2011 on the main Lake and four in little Hickory and so what do they tell us um what we found in the the main Lake there were 2011 observations 145 of them con contain plants so 72% of them contain some plants of those 72% uh 59 of them I'm sorry yeah 59 points or 41% uh contained greater than 50% plant cover so that's that's uh two-dimensional plant cover if you will and then 6% of them had uh or I'm sorry six of them 4% of them had greater than 50% biovolume so bio volume is uh in the cubic area of the plants um how thick it was right so kind of what that's telling us it's it's not a not a bad mix um and it was also a decent species richness we had 22 different species that were observed uh in the main Lake uh with some balance fan wart was seen I think it was in uh five spots uh but a limited number of spots found uh fan Ward as well which which we would expect just going to my next page in little Hickory um similar things little Hickory is a little bit different five acres as I mentioned so it's smaller shallower um there was blad wart found in all six of the the spots that they took four of these were um what we registered and she added two extra ones um plant cover was significant somewhere between 26 I'm sorry 76 and 100% plant cover um and uh the bio volume 26 to 50% uh in this area that was that was found so a lot more plants we have seen that we have uh actually discussed doing some um plant REM iation whether it be through chemical treatment or other ways uh but the one thing that also stood out for us here was the uh Wendy in the in the survey found uh a new non-native plant the brittle niad so that was also observed so part of our plans for 2025 is all right what are we what are we doing with that and uh because uh as she indicates here it does does spread through fragments much like our fan what does uh so we'd like to keep it one in in little hicker if we can we don't we never saw it in the main Lake uh but as we become more educated on this this year we'll begin to look for it ah so chemical treatments what uh Dominic did for us so in little Hickory early on we had a uh analogy problem and Al the algae formed and stayed through the winter so half the lake was um uh we had applied uh copper based alide to half the lake to reduce the filamentous alergy that was there so that when we went forward and did the pack treatment in uh June uh it would be more successful which it was so we did the pack treatment on the full little Hickory Lake and that was done in June and then uh flum amazine uh flumi I guess it's better to put it Clipper we did uh 12 galons of that in those areas that I showed you a little while ago the spot treatments to Target the heavy growth of fan wart all right this uh these were those same areas all right so 16.4 Acres out of uh 3155 were treated all right annual draw down these are 202 four notes um I started in January and went through December of 2024 so that's how this reads I just want to make make note of that um because it's different than what Wendy did but as Wendy said in the beginning of last in 2024 Our Lake was full flowing over the concrete in January uh we had turned on all the siphons trying to bring it back down again because usually well January is uh historically the best month to to get a uh complete freeze along the edges of the lake we were not successful so we shut everything off by February 11th last year uh the final boards were inserted to the summertime level by May by May 19th so but again the lake was full running over the concrete well before the April 1st date uh and then the lake was full to the summer Levels by May 29th uh this fall this past fall October 11th we removed their first roll boards the lake was already down 11 in so nothing happened on the 18th we removed the second row of boards again it was still down 11 in so about one inch of water was beginning to flow over the boards that we removed and then the final row of boards were removed on October 25th we started the siphons on November 2nd uh maintaining uh 2 in or less a day by November 30th we had reached the full draw down of 47 in um and so we slowed the pipes down and today we still have two of the pipes running to basically maintain the flow of what's coming into the lake it's try to balance it and we are at aboutus 40 in so that the good news with all of that is is we did have some hard freezes uh going through January and the edges were exposed before we had any snow on them uh so we're hopeful that around the edges of the lake which is what we were trying to do uh we will have wiped out some of the fan water and other weeds um that are in some of our swim areas Etc uh this is the Full Stop lock activity you can read it I'm not going to try to go through this but that's really we keep a a detailed log of what we're doing when we're putting logs at stop logs in out Etc so that's really what that is just for completeness so other community and Lake Health activities uh erosion control we continue to do that uh we tend to use cor logs and rocks those are the two things that we uh find that work the best for us we will use um last year I think we put 100 feet of cor logs in um we we the corporation focuses on preserving the islands and uh actually last year it all went on to the islands um so that's really where the work goes we stake these all in we uh bring dirt out to put behind them some LOM or whatever and usually try to plant blueberry bushes or or some other native bushes from the area uh behind the cor logs to hold everything in place individuals continue to do their own shorelines um yeah so that's been happening and ongoing uh Goose addling you know we've had a program to be doing Goose addling we've been approved by the state uh for the past four years and we'll go for approval again uh this year uh last year in 2024 34 eggs were addled and we did see some more reduction in the goose population one of our biggest problems is now we have although we may be reducing Goose population on the lake in areas on the swamps next to the lake or Downstream um near uh in the conservation area Downstream the goose are laying eggs down there so you know they're trying to get back up into the lake um we're trying to do some different things around that different fencing on the dam and stuff that will that will keep the downstream geese Downstream I mean we can't stop them they can walk down the road or walk across people's property but where we can we will try to do that all right sorry fish data so we also we have uh an an active uh group of residents that uh do fishing tournaments from April to October um we keep fishing data on all the all the fish that are caught and weighed in and this is basically a summ summary of of all that data so as you can see Tournament winning weights have uh basically been steady since the data has been taken uh tournament average fish weight again pretty stable total number of fish uh total fishing hours and the average fish per hour um one thing to note at the end it's funny I was talking to Wendy a little bit about this these two numbers we had a lot more fishing hours last year uh than we did this year uh but not as efficient so people were not as efficient it just tends to be uh the fewer number of people that fish tend to be the people who are better better at fishing so they tend to be more productive but anyways no fish kills or anything like that uh the fish population stays wrong uh Outreach Outreach to Residents is uh another thing within the order of conditions we have an office manager uh Mr McGee who's actually uh listening in uh who keeps regular office hours uh is always almost always available uh for Resident concerns Etc we uh also have a lake project coordinator that uh helps with Outreach to residents on our volunteer projects uh also maintains a calendar of events for all the required work projects uh last year coordinated with national River Watershed to do a uh purple loose strife removal around the lake uh so again you know lots of activity going on we have resident email blasts I mentioned that earlier if this algae blooms or other concerns or Dominic's going to be on the lake or whatever happens to be uh data is sent out and communicated pretty pretty well through our email blasts as well as our Facebook pages um board sponsored uh Communications committee uh who does uh welcome committee and new Resident welcome events uh we also have a monthly newsletter that goes out one or two page newsletter uh that goes out we do pamphlets handouts Etc waves is really a comprehensive quarterly newspaper to our residents uh so we make sure that that gets out we are required by bylaws to have a a yearly shareholder meeting and there's a lot of information shared we do it uh we've been doing the last couple of years it's actually been at the uh High School in the auditorium uh we do Resident shareholder meetings as needed on General topics of concern um as I mentioned Facebook we have a website as well where all of our policies forms letters Etc are all there we do some formal classes we do divver certification boat launch CER certification security training uh a lot of social events we're a pretty active Community both within our own community and within the town uh you know people from the lake do do many different things around the town and then finally this is just a personal touch uh Some people prefer to just go door too and talk to their neighbors the oldfashioned way who would have thought it right so plans for 2025 so we want to maintain our contract with Arc uh what we did last year what we'll continue to do is look for a year- end summary and what we need to do in the following year so continued water quality monitoring algae monitoring um and then really storm water assessment that was part of our contract this year uh but unfortunately the the storms that we had this year didn't meet a lot of the storm water requirements uh so we had got limited data on that but we're hoping that that will help us uh into the future understanding where storm water is coming from and uh what other things we can we can do to mitigate some of that fan War control we're going to continue our hand pulling and our herbicide treatments uh brittle niad as I mentioned earlier in little Hickory uh monitoring and removing that uh is is as recommended um and then really we need to see if we find it anywhere in the main lake so we've got to get a little bit more educated on that uh purple light loose strife removal we'll continue to do that erosion control algae control uh storm water I just mentioned and and Goose control those are some of the main things we plan to continue doing this year uh nothing really different we don't have any big uh plans to do anything on the dam or anything like that really that's just general maintenance at this time so we're you know we're in pretty good shape and finally uh our dive team is recommending uh flumi treatments in these areas so I mentioned earlier that would be different areas uh than what we' seen flumi is with Dominic mentioned uh you can't do it in the same area multiple years in a row so these are all different areas and uh we're I think after he comes out there's a some question on whether maybe needs to be a little bit more over in here uh so we'll uh try to get that recommendation and come back to you guys we'll get on your schedule probably mid try to get on your schedule now for miday when uh we'd want to get approval and then probably get that done late May or June okay thanks John thanks for that heads up that's uh kind of what I have so I'm again any questions or concerns about what we have or any other way I can help you I don't have any questions uh your presentation answered all my questions uh rich richer on mute how often thanks M chair how often can you repeat with Clipper is it every other year every third year every fourth year I believe it's every third year but Dominic is the expert yeah it's it's once every four years unfortunately there are some exemptions for areas in the immediate vicinity of like Shoreline structures so boat ramps swim beaches dams docks um that sort of thing but in terms of larger areas yeah once every four years okay and we haven't used Clipper on Hickory Hills since the um sonar treatment back in 2020 no we we have we did use it we've been using it uh probably yearly as I mentioned uh those spots where we did treatment early on when were talking about the divers okay was it marked on the map that you showed for the um next year's request uh no but since you're asking I did put that together okay perfect okay that's that's really last year in 2024 was and these this is from Solitude right so these are accurate sizes of the area Etc and then we were talking about in 202 the only one that's close is right here and in hindsight we probably should so we did that last year and in hindsight we should have done a bigger area and we didn't okay perfect thank you for showing that John yep thank you for asking I got to use the slide I made super he did a great job making it thank you madam chair that was my only question Thank you Rich any other questions from members of the commission and seeing none uh any questions uh comments from members of the public and I'm seeing none okay um John you you don't uh you're going to come back in uh approximately May to uh put some treatment proposals in front of us so there's no action for the commission to uh to take tonight uh but I do appreciate you uh putting a really nice set of slides together for us um and uh were the slides actually in the email that you sent us last week we have those slides I didn't double check I looked at the report okay well then uh thank you thank you for that there's any any problem with whatever I did update a couple of them but they're subtle up dates and words or whatever so you know it is basically the same yeah as long as the messaging is the same uh yeah well very good it was great having you here tonight thanks for the update I appreciate it all right you're more than welcome thank you for the opportunity uh okay so that uh concludes our agenda tonight uh are there any parting uh comments uh from members of the commission and uh any final comments from members of the public and I am not seeing any hands raised so I'm looking for a motion to uh to adjourn so moved second second thank you Mike thank you Rich uh and the time is uh 834 roll call vote Mike I Chris hi Jeff hi Rich hi and I for myself did I call out everybody I think so I was just double checking um and I for myself okay thank you everyone thank you you have a great night thank you byebye thanks good night