All right. Calling to order the December 17th, 2025 meeting of the Lunenburgg Conservation Commission at 7:03 p.m. Um, in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law, please be advised that this meeting is being audio video
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notified that this AI technology may capture audio prior to the start of the meeting and or following the conclusion of the meeting. All right, I'm going to do a roll call. Uh Mike Larouche, >> present. >> Andrea Bernett,
>> present. >> Richard Bur >> present. >> Mary Wilson >> here. >> Teddy Ducet >> here. and I, Jenny Puther, am here. Um, Chris will not be here tonight. Okay.
Uh, up first, we have an appointment for Tom Analons to go over the plan to groom the trails for mountain biking at a couple properties in town. And I did see that Tom is here. Um, Tom, you had sent
some photos with some trails. Um, did you want to share those or go over Can you go over the >> the plan? >> The the um Yeah, I mean um the trails
are the same trails as last year. Um Jenny, I I I would like to get into the trails. Chris and I had talked about doing the trails off uh Malpus Road. visit of large town forest over on the
other side of Hickory Hills. I'm not sure um if that's possible or if I have the time to do that. It's pretty far as getting in off Holman Street and keeping those trails um groom for the hikers and trail
runners, etc., etc., fat mountain bikers is a pretty good respon a big responsibility. Um, it just takes a lot of time. But I just wanted to throw that out just in case, Jenny, if we had time to do it and I had your permission, that
would be great. I'm not saying I'll get over there to do it. And another property was um off of Northfield Road um that we did a little bit on last year
on um the other side of the snowmobile um trails that um actually there's a parking lot off of um Northfield Road for three or four cars that I think that's in the process of
um making more parking spots. over there. What I'm what I was told >> Table Rock you're talking about or >> what was it kid? >> Is that Table Rock that you're >> It is. It is. Yes. So there is some trails over there that you know that
we'd like to groom Jenny. But the main the main part is really off of Helmet Street, you know. I mean that that seems to be a big hit, you know, for hikers and trail runners. So >> that's lame and large that you're
talking about. It it it is. Yeah. And I do have permission from Hickory Hills, you know, um to groom that this year at, you know, like last year. So, um yeah, that's that's about it is um if I could groom
it with four inches of snow u minimum and just do like we did last year, you know, not widening trails or making new trails, just grooming the the previous trails that are there.
>> Okay. So, you had sent me um some pictures of trails that you were looking to grim. I know that I think the con the commission is looking for just like a list of trails and I had meant to respond to you and I didn't. Um asking for at least like a map with some trails
highlighted. I was thinking maybe we could go through the trails that you sent over. They're kind of Jenny. They're kind of like I said in the email that I sent you, there's really no names of the trails. It's all colorcoded. I think
there was red, blue, and red that's in there. You know, there's homemade trail names, but nothing really. If you go into Homeman Street, Jenny, there's it's all colorcoded.
So there's really it's hard to explain. It's just um all you know there's a trail along Mopus Brook. There's a trail that that goes on the both sides of the brook and then goes up um across the snowmobile
trail that goes into Hickory Hills. I I don't trail to be honest with you, but I think you have a map there that I sent you. But all the names are kind of made up. It's all
>> And even just like a highlighted map would work or if you know because we have like the red trail. Let me see. Mary has her hand up. So, >> no, that's just what I was going to say, Jenny. Just taking this and marking it up I think would be sufficient to allow us to understand what he was going to
groom and what he was not going to groom at least from the proposal perspective. >> Yeah. So even if you were to I know take a a black Sharpie and just >> okay >> draw lines over the trails that you plan
on grooming. >> You know print this out, take a black Sharpie and then send it back. um or if you have access to like a a Blue Beam or Adobe and maybe mark it up that way because we just want to make sure that we have um an idea of what's going to be
groomed so we're not you know there's no surprises and >> Yeah. Um so you I mean you have the red Yeah. I don't have I mean I can explain it probably easier by just looking at it.
Mary and Jenny. Yeah. I mean, it's the red the red trail, the yellow trail, the blue trail. I mean, it's it's kind of the it's basically what you see on that trail, you know, on that map
at the parking lot on Home Street. There's some there's some other trails in there that are not I don't see that are on there. The the the thing is is
what we try to do or what in the past is make one continuous trail journey staying off the snow trails for the safety of the the bikers and the hikers.
You know what I'm saying? >> Okay. Yeah. So, I'm not Barry is definitely more familiar with what the snowmobile trails are. Um I am not familiar with which trails are the snowmobile trails. >> Okay. >> So,
>> yeah, I mean I can I mean I can send you that over on a Sharpie on a later date. I mean, you know, if you could see out of H Homeman Street, the red trail goes along Mus Park, but there's a blue
trail there as well. >> You mean talking about this blue trail right here? >> It's Yeah, it's just I don't know how to explain it. I just It's pretty simple. It's just whatever you see on that is basically, you know,
basically it there are Yeah, I know there's a few new trails that are connecting the previous >> You say whatever's on this. Do you mean on this in this shaded area? >> Uh, yeah. The color I mean is red, blue,
yellow, green, >> and then you said something about trails that aren't on the map, but I think the only trails that are >> that are considered um true trails are trails that are on the map. Is that is
there anything that wouldn't be on the map, Mary, that would be allowed to be groomed that you know of or would it have to be something that would be on this map? or Richard or anybody else. >> It would need to be on the map. Um, you
know, we had uh we had I thought Tom um and Bob uh and uh PJ come to ask for permission uh for some new trails, but I have yet to see that proposal. >> Okay. So, there's nothing that there
shouldn't be any trails that aren't on this map. >> That's as far as my understanding is. >> Okay. Yeah, I guess. And you're right, Mary. Um, there are new trails on there that aren't posted on that map that I think
that Bob wanted to put on there before he put the new trail system map on the trees in in the woods. I mean, the whole idea was to to have a continuous loop
through the large to, you know, town forest. But like you said, there are trails there that aren't posted on that trail map that I'm looking at. >> Well, since we're talking about new
trails, um, can we go there? >> Um, yeah. Uh, >> absolutely, >> Todd. You're fully of the understanding you're not allowed to create trails unless you get permission first. >> Yes. >> Okay. And and from the commission,
right? Not somebody else, >> right? Right. I learned that the hard way. But you Yes, I do understand that. >> Okay. it it the new trails of Yeah, I I know where you're going with this and I
understand that the trails that are raked in ride. I mean there's Yeah, we did we had done a bench cut there off of that trail and I heard there weren't you weren't happy with
that and I understand that and I thought we had permission from that Mary. Obviously we did not. that was uh talked about a year or two. So, we did that to come off the parking lot and make that
continuous loop that's not on this trail. But, I mean the the I do realize and understand the regulations of getting permission. Um the trails we do put in Marian
I mean prior to that trail that cut that we did I mean a lot of it is just rake and ride you know there's no cutting it's more it's more following the fall line of the property of
>> those have to give permission first too it >> yeah right right so I mean a lot a lot of it people ride it and we follow it. Somebody has has ridden a few of them
and make their own trails and then it becomes a trail without permission which you know >> well um just to be clear I've seen you out there in the forest telling me you were working with people on the commission who didn't know who you were and you said that it was a sanctioned
trail and I told you it wasn't because I was on the commission. >> Right. Right. That was two years ago. Correct. That's correct. >> Yeah. But I mean since since then we really haven't done anything Mary >> on the understanding of what you had
told me, you know, last year. >> Okay. Um and so if we were to grant you permission to go out and groom trails, you would also understand that if you were going to bring ramps or anything else out there, that is not implied in this permission. That would be a separate permission you would have to
request. >> Okay. Yeah. I I didn't know that, but I understand it, you know. Yeah. >> So, basically, anything that you do out there in the forest that's not just walking in the forest, you have to ask
for permission first. >> Okay. >> Um, the commission loves our volunteers, honestly. Uh, you know, I do a lot of work out in the forest. I plan a lot of projects. I work on fundraising, all kinds of things, right? And I know what
it means to have volunteers like yourself out doing work and committed work and uh you know I groom in the winter time too. And uh you know it it gets cold out there, right? So I really appreciate that. The reason why we have
these land use rules is so that we're clear on what's happening. Uh there are a lot of it's a shared interest area, right? There's game management that's happening out there. There's public safety interests that also the commission has responsibility for. Um
and and those are a few of the reasons why it is so important and why we actually have it as a law that you must ask for permission first to do anything besides go out and walk in the forest. Anything you alter,
>> you must get permission first. >> Right. I understand that as we you know I mean I I I know I I it my fault for sure that I went in and made a few trails without the permission you know prior to this
reason you know now that we know the understanding of the rules of the regulation is you know clearly >> okay and so then with regard to you had sent an email uh asking about wood chips uh and putting wood chips on trails. Uh
which on the surface seems fairly benign. Uh but uh one of the big problems we have that actually threatens the existence of our you know the state that we have of our uh forest is invasive plants. And uh those invasive
plants come in on foreign wood materials like wood chips. >> Uh so it's really important not to be bringing in uh wood chips uh particularly those where we don't know where they come from. Um, and I have to say that after you had asked, I went out
and found wood chips on trails. Um, so I was disappointed um to see that. >> Yeah. I didn't realize, Mary, that wood chips I don't recall. We asked I mean, we we brought wood chips in three or
four buckets to do that trail to hold the erosion down, but I didn't know. Each trail that we did is is I mean it's observed for you know um erosion
you know we're not we're not out there just putting trails up wherever we want but I I mean the wood chips I don't I don't remember I I threw a few buckets down there just to hold the dirt down and I I I got them right down the street
figuring that was the same wood chips from a local area and and I had sent a few messages to other people, you know, that I thought was on the committee and said it like it was probably all right. So that that, you
know, that's my fault. I apologize. >> Richard, do you have your hand up? >> I did. I just wanted to add to what Mary was saying that um the commission is definitely very grateful for all of the volunteers that do help um in maintaining access to all of our
properties, Tom. So, it is we do thank you very much for helping to provide the access. Uh, one of the other things that Mary didn't touch on is all of these lands are for passive recreation only and that is due to the funding that we received
from the state of Massachusetts and purchasing these properties. So we do need to be very careful and monitor the activities of the property because they are supposed to be maintained in whole in the natural state for
passive recreation which is basically just you know small groups walking it and enjoying the flora and fauna of the properties. uh once we start to get into multiple trail creations and maintaining trails and providing access that can be
used by other vehicles and other groups >> um do start to violate that um premise that these are for passive recreation only. So that's one of the big reasons that we really want to or one of the other reasons we want to make sure that we are fully in control of what's
happening on the property so that we can make sure that it is maintained in a natural state and only used for passive recreation. So but thank you very much for the for offering to uh help provide the access in there. So, and I think Mary covered most of the most of the
points as far as maintaining trails, adding trails, um any sort of disturbance in the property itself, creating sitting areas, widening trails. We really have to review any proposals like that prior to that work uh being
approved. So, but thank you very much, Tom. I definitely look forward to seeing some of the trails packed down so we can get out there when the snow falls. >> Yeah. I mean when we when we go out we're not landscaping
the property per se only that one episode of homey I mean it's more we don't blow the trails off and we keep the leaves on there to hold the the erosion and the compost of the leaves that just keep the trails
natural. I mean the the trails far as uproot and the roots being exposed is is use of the trails. Correct. I mean you run something over it's like bottom right. The more you run over the bigger the hole it's going to get. So I I had
talked to a few people on trying to fill the voids in and keeping it, you know, protecting the root system really. And you know, I thought that would be a good idea with the wood chips.
I figured if you, you know, if we use the wood chips from that property and just kind of, you know, build in the voids for the holes, that would be a good idea. Um, but per se, I mean,
there's no landscaping on any trail, you know, it's more taking the dead stuff that falls down from the trees and moving it to the side, not blowing the leaves off the trails and trying to keep that protected
from, you know, species or whatnot. But I mean, we try to, you know, we're not out there just hearing about mountains. We, you know, we're out there every every, you know, um, every
person I run into or whether it's a trail runner, a walker, elderly person, a child or a parent walking their child, always very thankful saying, "Hey, who's doing the trail work out here? We appreciate what
you're doing." So, I mean, far as you know, cut and trees that we're not out, like I said, we're not out landscaping the trails. That's they want wide enough, per se. I mean, the the groom is
30 in wide and it's wide enough to get through 99.5 of the trail. So, I mean, yeah, I guess uh I don't know how how else to explain it. So, but I appreciate
your um knowledge and the hard work. If there's a tree down and I'm out with a snow dog, we carry electric chainsaw with us and we cut the tree down out of the trail, you know, out of the the passageway. So, whether it's a runner or
a hiker, you know, I've seen elderly people. We try to build I mean, I put a couple bridges in there. I ran into an elderly person. Um, a local woman said that she was having a
hard time getting up the lawn mus. So, I had put a a um a walking bridge in there with some crossmembers there where there was actually a couple pieces of wood there for railings that somebody was
apparently was going to put a railing in there so they could grab a hole and go up. the the construction is pretty simple. It's not um digging and you know if if there's any
digging as it it's digging nearby for a shovel full of gravel to fill a pothole. I mean if if that's okay. >> Mary has her hand up. I'm gonna Mary. >> Um yeah, thanks. Um thanks Madam Chair.
So, uh, just to be clear, bridges, even if they lay on the ground, catwalks, even if they lay on the ground, that's an alteration and that requires permission beforehand, not after the fact. >> Okay. >> All right. And, um, you know, these
lands are in the care and control of conservation, but it's also regulated land. Um, as an example, Tom, in order for us to go put gravel in the existing trail, we had to go to several state um regulators to ask for permission and
actually get a permit to do that. >> Yeah, that's >> okay. So, >> well, that was >> Yeah, that's that's that's how heavily regulated any action in that land is. That's laying gravel on the ground in a
trail that's already there. Okay. Now, is that is that Mary is that taking gravel from the property, which is let's just say five or 10 feet away from the trail with a spade shovel. I mean, is
that is that you need permission? I'm not saying bringing gravel in. I understand, you know, we taking the gravel in from Powels or Proctor, but if you dug a hole close to where it needed that filling, I
mean, is that a no no or is that something that >> I would say, Tom, if you're taking a shovel down the trail, you ought to talk to us first. That's the safe thing to do. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Okay. Um that's that I think that's probably
let's air on the side of caution. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um with regard to clearing trails that are already existing trails that are already marked as existing trails. That permission is granted in the land use
rules without >> as as yeah without permission. But that's a marked trail. A trail that exists on a trail map. It's got trail flagging on it. Um that is not a game trail. Uh that is not marked. That is not on a map.
>> Got it. >> Um I mean we're I just I just want to let you know we're not or I'm not or we're not the group that we hang out with. We, you know, we we of you know, going in cut, you know, there's no new
growth being cut. You know, if a dead tree goes over the trail, obviously it fell down. We cut it and get it out of the way. It had fall. It had fallen naturally, not we're not out there, you know, wood
choppers and cutting every tree. You know what I'm saying? So, we're just we're trying to clear it for everybody and just make it enjoyable for every every aspect of the summer winter activities. That's all.
>> Um, Madame Chair, I I would be very interested in moving this forward, but I do want to see a map that includes all of the trails that um uh Tom would consider grooming. And I understand um Tom has said that he may not get to all
of them. Um, but I would like to see a map that shows all of the ones that he's going to uh propose into groom. And so even if they aren't on this map, I would like to know what they are. I would like to, you know, some have somebody Tom ride out there and do GPS coordinates
and send that to us. Um, and this is only one of the areas that you're proposing to groom. I think there are a lot of people on the commission and maybe some volunteers like Bob and whatnot that can help you mark up a drawing like this. I think Chris St. Germaine could help you mark up a
drawing like this. Um and then uh you know we need to get the any um coordinates for those new trails that you were referring to. And then you know if you're talking about Table Rock or any of those other properties uh smalltown Forest Cry uh I would like to
see that as well so we have a record proposing. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it just takes time to go out and get everybody together and do it, you know, get on the same page and we can ro it and um
and mark it like you say on the GPS. It's it's very it's basically the same trails as last year, you know, besides leaving the parking lot and that new trail on the left hand side that we did the bench cut. Everything's basically the same going
into Hickory Hills. There's nothing changed into there. It's all there's really nothing new that we I can think of actually. There Yeah. I mean, I guess I could call we can get a hold of Chris or
I I know Bob Smelt isn't that great, so he's kind of out of, you know, >> Chris is out there writing pretty often, so he might be a really good resource for you. >> Yeah, exactly. That's And he can
or I can submit it to you at some point. >> I I'm very handy with trail applications. If I had GPS coordinates, I could put it on a Are you out there on a map? >> Are you out there at all, Mary? Where I can we can either walk it or or do
>> I am. Yeah. Yeah. I I could be available for that. Um I haven't been out there as much recently. My dog tore his ACL so >> or CCL, >> but um yeah, I can make arrangements for that, too. Can can we set a date tonight where or a time and a date we could do
that and get this rolling and you could go out. I mean the easiest way I suppose is just I mean I I I rather go right to the source either Jenny or yourself then we can we can walk it or we can ride it. What whatever you prefer and then you'll
know for next year instead going through this you know year after year. Maybe we can say, okay, it's the same same year after year, same trail, same, you know, 4 in of snow.
>> Yeah, I think once we have the map uh map uh data uh set up, it should be a pretty easy request to initiate year-over-year. >> Um I am uh I don't have my calendar in front of me. Uh Jenny knows I have a lot of other volunteer activities that I
manage in addition to >> ample work responsibilities. So, I'd have to get back to you about availability. >> So, and I can forward your email address to Mary Tom if she doesn't have it. >> I have it. He sent me the email about the wood chips. >> Oh, okay. Great.
>> So, yeah. So, she knows how to get in touch with you. Um, have you It looks like Lane and Large may have already been groomed. Did you Did you go out there and groom >> there? Yes. I mean, we we um there was a
groomer out there. I don't know who was out there and somebody had whether it was a sled we I had gone out and somebody had groomed it prior and who
I don't know if a local guy has a boomer. I yet to find out. I'm trying to find that out. Jenny um whether somebody was pulling aside did you see any >> I didn't know of anybody out there that
was ging I didn't hear that but I did see it. >> Okay. So, but it wasn't you? >> No, not not the first attempt. No. >> Okay. Have you groomed at all this year or >> I I went out twice. I went out last
night was the second time. Okay. Um, can you not groom until you send us a map of exactly where you're going to groom? >> Okay. >> Um, and we, you know, approve. >> Right. >> Unless somebody has a different I mean,
this was at lane and large. If if anyone else has a different way to approach this specifically for that, like if we want to tell them maybe just to stay on trails that are marked and that are true. But >> Jenny, I don't mean to talk over you,
but I mean, I'm just >> shocked that um he's out grooming when he's been told that he needs to ask for permission again this year. >> Yeah. >> I mean, if you know,
>> so um yeah, we definitely definitely need permission before you start grooming. and we weren't we're we're not there yet. Um well, I want to say we appreciate all that you do for the trails and we love that you know you're helping out
making these trails accessible for people during the winter. But we definitely need we need to have visibility on what you're doing and make sure that we are, you know, giving permission for what you're doing and that we're not cuz that way we have the visibility and we just can make sure
that everything that you're doing is not going to be anything that impacts our trails, >> right? >> Um so yeah, so please no grooming without without >> permission. >> Permission. Yeah. Um, so you've you've
groomed twice already? >> I did. Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. >> I mean, somebody was out there already grooming that I just automatically thought, well, if they're grooming, they had permission.
Just took it upon myself. all figuring I know I missed the last meeting and I just figured somebody was out there doing it and I said, "Wow, they must have had permission to do it. I went out and did it." So my I mean my
mistake. >> You definitely have not given anybody else permission to groom. So, >> yeah, if you ever if you ever see anybody out there grooming, >> then I think that you're most likely going to be the only person that we give permission to, too,
>> if we give permission. So, you let them know they need to come to us. >> Um, >> okay. So, we definitely need the trails that you're going to planning on gramming mapped out. We could
definitely use those again in in future years. Um, if you're not planning on adding anything to them, I think that, you know, this could be, but we we need to know where you're going to be. Make sure that the trails are all legit trails in Lunenburgg.
>> Yeah. I mean, I I would really like to meet I'm, you know, I really like to meet somebody on the conservation and walk it and let you know what we're doing out there. I mean, you know, it just seems like it's a it's a hard thing
to get everybody together and just go over it in person and say, "This is what we're doing. This is what we're doing." The the walking trails or the biking trails are basically what we're doing, Jenny. I
mean, it's what's out there is what we're grooming. So, so what you're saying is at all of the properties that you've listed off, you consider all of the marked trails as
ones that you would like to be doing. >> Exactly. I mean, there are trails in there that aren't on that. I'm looking at it and there's trails on there that added from last year
that try to make a continuous loop. So we're staying off the snowmobile. So basically when you come out of a trail you cross over onto cross over the snowmobile trail onto a walk a hiking
and biking running and then the next you know it's a it's a continuous loop is what we try to get through you know what we talked about with Bob the previous years is he when
he does is he in so let's start is Is Bob on the conservation or it's >> No, Bob is not on the He is definitely still very active in um trail maintenance and grants and things like that and but he is no longer on the
conservation commission. >> So last year, Jenny, we had supposedly we had permission to do a new trail or two new trails, but I was and that's why we did it. We didn't do it on our own and just throw it out
there and a freeforall. I had sent a few texts out in emails saying this is what we were going to do and we were supposed to have help from conservation from people.
So this was talked about two years ago when we did this bench cut off the park. where where the wood chips are. Supposingly we I didn't go out there and just cut that trail with no permission.
Supposingly we had permission to do that and that's why we did it for and it it went on and on and on for a year and a half and we never got to it because we were trying to figure out >> how we were going to do it. leaving the
parking lot, coming up, making the loop, and making a continuous loop to make it safe for everybody, whether you're a hiker, a biker, or a trail runner, to stay off that that double track loop. So, you crossed over
the the double track, which is a service road, and then onto another trail. So when Bob had made this trail map or whoever's in charge making this trail map that it was
on there and it's not on there but we did it was possibly and you know when I had heard that you were upset I'm like we supposedly we had permission to do that. We didn't go out
and cut that trail on our own. So, >> I was I was [ __ ] because my name's on that >> and I know you and Mary or whoever wasn't happy. And I'm saying to myself, we I didn't go out there with a pick and shovel and do that on my own, you know?
I mean, we we we had permission from a year or two ago to do it and we just didn't have time to do it. That's the only really landscape trail that we did, Jenny. far as disturbing the
landscape. You know what I'm saying? Most of those >> any new trail that's out there is raken ride that somebody wrote it and we kind of followed it and said, "Wow, somebody
wrote this or two or three people wrote it." And you kind of you're going with the the uh >> Oh, I see Greg has his hand up. Uh, and then I have some things I want to say too after. Hey, Greg. >> Really, really briefly. I unfortunately I I thought I was going to get in and
out of here before my I have to go to a meeting at 7:45 and I have the 27 Fire Road 15 hearing. Can Can you just table that when when you get to it >> and >> um Absolutely. >> Thank you very much. Sorry for the >> interruption. >> And then are you gonna you're gonna be
back you're gonna be back right after your 7:45 meeting? >> I'll be back after I think by 7:45 is quick. I'm supposed to be first on that agenda. So, I'll be back after that one. >> Okay. >> Sorry for the interruption. All right. >> All right. Thanks, Greg. All right. >> Okay. So, Tom, I would say I don't I
wasn't on the commission two years ago. Um I have only seen one new trail be sanctioned since I've been on the commission, but I would say unless you have come before us and are given explicit permission and you have um a plan of anything that you want to do that would alter the trails at all, then
I would say there's no permission. um at least as far as at least as while I'm the chair of the commission because we definitely want to you know know we don't want you to feel like you're doing something that is going to make us upset. We want to make sure that we are doing things the correct way. Um if
people are riding on if they're riding off the trails they shouldn't be doing that because people should be staying on only trails that are marked as true trails. So I can't speak to what other people are doing but as you know for you
yourself you know just stay on the march trails. >> Yeah it's good knowledge to know it's just you know like I said we're not you know I don't know how to really say this. I'm not a good speaker but we're not you know I I it's not my property. I
respect conservation. I work for the state. I know a little bit about the environment and the erosion and we deal with that on an everyday basis through the state. So I mean you know and I appreciate the whole the
you know the the home industry has become very popular in the last two years of fat biking and mountain biking. I mean it's you know what cleaning the trail. We we started out
just by cleaning the brook Jenny with the erosion because there's down trees in Mopus Brook that the water's being defer it's it's pushed off to one side and it's not the natural fall line. It's it's so we had gone in there with
waiters with Bob when his health was good two and a half two or two two and a half years ago and we I mean these are logs that are just soaked with water and it's a lot of work. So we had opened up
waterways Jenny where where the natural waterfall of the brook went. Madam chair say sorry I'm gonna stop you for a second Tom Rich you have your hand up >> I did Can we continue this at such a
time when we get the map that is going to delineate the further part of this so I think we're just kind of going in circles at this point and I know there's other people that are here for hearing. >> Thank you. So Tom, I think so if you can
u maybe coordinate with Mary or maybe I can find a time to go out there with you at some point um and just please don't do anything else until we have, you know, a at least some sort of mapped out uh plan of the trails that you're
planning on doing. Um again, we we super appreciate that you're doing this. Um we really need and just make sure before you do anything even like anything, come to us, get our permission. That way, nobody can ever
say that you were doing something that you shouldn't have been doing and we have an understanding. >> So, the grooming, so the grooming is off for till further notice. >> Yes. Um and then so what we'll do is we'll get you on the next meeting, which
unfortunately is January 7th. I know we probably at this point at with the way we're going, we'll probably have snow before then, but um if you can just we'll we'll definitely figure something out as far as the maps go between now and then and then we'll get you on the
next meeting and go from there. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, I'll reach out to you after the meeting. >> Okay. Sounds great. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Okay. Bye. Bye. All right. Have a good night. >> You too. Okay, thank you so much everybody for
bearing with me. I am going to move on to um public comment. Comments are to be limited to three minutes and on the subject matter under the direct jurisdiction of the commission. Comments about current agenda items are to be made during the comment period of specific agenda item. Please address all
comments to the chair. Do we have any members of the public who would like to make a public comment? Does not appear st. >> Oh yes. >> Oh >> yes. >> Um who is that?
>> Uh hi it's uh John O' Conor. I live at 236 West Street Munberg. >> Okay. Um this is so weird. You're not like popping up for me. Um >> I'm sorry. Can you hear me? Okay. Yeah, I can hear you. Okay. But I can't figure
out usually when somebody starts talking it Are you the one that says iPhone? >> I am the one who says iPhone. >> Okay, there you go. I see you now. >> Okay. All right. Thank you for saying your name and your address. Um, how can I help you? >> Yeah, I just Yeah. No, I just uh was
listening to the conversation with Tom and wanted to express appreciation. Um, I hike and uh bike now with my kids regularly at Lunberg Town Forest. And when I first uh moved here over a decade ago, I mean, it was really so much less
um cohesive. Uh, so I think the combination of um I do know uh Bob, you know, the work that he did and um and and really all the time that Tom and whoever else is out there um it's really
made a huge uh difference. the trails are passable. Um, you know, they're easy to walk on. They're great for my kids uh to ride on. So, I just, you know, really feel grateful. Those small bridges that are in too, like I think when I was first when I when I first came here, there's a lot of just kind of like muddy
crossings and stuff. So, I I think the trails are in amazing shape. So, um you know, I I hope uh people continue to keep uh volunteering and approaching you guys for uh for for permissions because I think it's it's running great out there and it's it's really enjoyable. So, thank you.
>> Yeah, thanks for adding that. We have um you know, in addition to Tom helping out. Uh we also have, you know, Mary, she coordinates volunteer days where people go out and build bridges. Um we have the United Way has volunteer days. So, we have all these people that come
together and really, and Bob also, I don't want to leave Bob out. Bob does a ton. Um we have all these people that really come together and keep the trails nice and build the bridges and continually trying to make things better. Uh, Mary, you have your hand up. >> Yeah, I just want to mention, too, since
you're going through the list of volunteers, um, we have a really active snowmobile community and a local snowmobile club that does a ton of work, including a a lot of, uh, grant work, right, to build and improve the, uh, the trails and the trail system on an ongoing basis. And we really appreciate
those volunteers as well. >> Yes. I do not want to forget the snowmobile community. Sometimes I do that. Don't mean to, but yes, we just have a great community in general here. >> Thank you, Mary. >> Um, if you don't mind, could if I could
just add one last thing. Um, you know, I did get a chance to ride some of the groom trails last year. They really are fantastic. >> Um, you know, it's it's I it's just really, I think, a benefit to the community. So, I know you got to I I hope you can get together with Tom to walk those trails in the near um future.
But um you know the the difference between either riding or walking on a you know a small track that's been that packed down versus you know stuff that's been kind of like post holed and frozen over. Um it's just it's gotten me out a lot more you know um like last winter
and everything. So, uh, so at any rate, I was I was definitely hoping that would continue to happen, uh, for sure because I know it's a lot of work, uh, to do that. And it's very I don't know if you guys have like actually seen what a snow dog is, but it's a it's a very small it's it's like the size of a shopping cart with a with a little sled behind
it. So, uh, so it's fairly low impact. I I I I can't imagine you have to worry about it on the trails. Um certainly, you know, I've seen like horses out there and as you said, there's snowmobiles, so it is substantially uh less impactful uh than that. So, for
that reason, I'm I'm hoping that uh you can get together with Tom and and and walk. >> Yeah, we we gave him permission last year to use the snow dog. So, we're definitely familiar with it and we definitely want to work with him and and get it going again. We are, you know, hopeful that this will, you know,
come to fruition. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, thanks for approving it last year and I'm I'm really hoping it uh you know uh it gets approved again. Thanks. >> All right. Thanks so much for your comments. Have a great night. >> Okay. Um
minutes from the December 3rd meeting. Has everyone had a chance to go over those? >> Yep. >> Motion to approve. >> All right. >> Second. >> Second. >> Second. >> Who was the second? Who was the first
person I heard? >> I mean Mary was first. Who was it? Was it Teddy? >> Mike. >> Oh, Mike. Okay. All right. So, Mary the motion and Mike with the second. Uh, roll call vote. Mike LaRouche.
>> I. >> Andrea Bernett. >> I. >> Richard Bers. >> I. >> Mary Wilson. >> I. >> Teddy Det. >> I. and I for myself. Okay. Um so up first we have the new
public hearing at 27 Fire Road 15A, but Greg has asked us to just hold off on this. Um it's okay if it's if I just skip it for now and then come back to it. Okay. So we will move on to um our continued
public hearings. Up first we have 480 MPUS road. Uh, a public hearing on a request. Oh, don't want to forget my um Oh my gosh. Oh, okay. Pursuant to MGL chapter 131 section 40 is amended in the town of Lindenburgg wetlands protection
and municipal bylaws, a public hearing on a request for determination of applicability by Kenneth McNamera for a project that involves construction of a shed approximately 75 to 100 ft from the edge of the stream. The shed will be set on concrete blocks that are 8 by 8x4 at
480 Mus Road. Um, and do we have the applicant on the call? So, I do know that Herland did make it out there. Um, it does not appear that we have
the applicant here though. Um h >> and do we have a plan of where the new location is? >> Yes. Um so Harland said site visit performed on 1215 to determine location of shed. Uh current location of proposed
shed sits with within 80 ft of the intermittent stream. We agreed to a different location about 112 ft from the stream 12 ft out of the buffer zone. The applicant agreed and we staked out the location. Um and then she had some recommended special conditions.
So um they are well I guess if they're moving it out of the buffer zone then it becomes not in our jurisdiction anyway. Um >> it would still be in the riverfront. >> Oh yeah that's right. It would be in the
200 foot. Right. Thank you, Richard. Um, but can we we can't can we proceed without the could we approve this without the applicant here? I don't think so. >> I think >> we have an updated plan of where they're putting the shed.
>> That's what I was going to ask. Thank you, Richard. just check think of. Yeah, I don't see any updated uh attachments. Okay. So, yeah. So, what I'll do is um
I can ask Harllyn to get just a an updated picture from the applicant and well we don't and then continuing it is um
also can we continue it without >> Sure. >> Okay. Let me let me just make sure there's I mean let's Okay. Do I have a motion to continue to our next meeting
which is January 7th, 2025 2026? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> Okay. Um so I have Richard with the motion Mary with the second to uh continue to January 7th, 2026.
Uh roll call vote. Mike Larouche. >> Hi, >> Andrea Bernup. >> Hi, >> Richard Bur. >> Hi, >> Mary Wilson. >> Hi, >> Eddie. She's set. >> And I for myself. Okay. And then let me
just make a note to talk to her and get the new plant. Okay. Um, our next public hearing is uh 30 Summer Street. So, they have asked to continue.
So, all hearings are I mean pursuant to MGL chapter 131 section 40 as amended in the town of Lindenburgg wetlands protection and municipal bylaws. A public hearing on a notice of intent by Safe Store Real Estate Co. LLC for a project that involves blood plane fill and associated compensatory flood plane
compensation. Greg Roy has requested to continue this until our next meeting for January 7th. Um he sent us an email earlier. Uh so do I have a motion to continue to January 7th, 2026? >> Second.
>> All right. I think is that Mike with the motion and Mary with the second? >> There you go. >> I think that was Rich. Oh, was that Rich? >> Go to Ben. >> Okay. Okay. Rich with the motion. Mary with the second. Roll call vote. You're welcome.
>> Mike Larouche. >> I. >> Did you? Andrea Bernapp. >> I. >> Richard Bers. >> Hi. >> Uh, Mary Wilson. >> Hi. >> Teddy Det. >> I.
>> And I for myself. Um. Okay. Then we have pursuant to MGL chapter 131 section 40 as amended in the town of Lindenburg wetlands protection and municipal bylaws a public hearing on a
notice of intent by the town of Lunenburgg DPW for the replacement of the deteriorated covert at Northfield Road crossing over Mulpus Bre in order to mitigate further deterioration. Do we have the applicant or I we I see Bill Bernard. Um and we have the
representative also >> on the call. >> Hey Bill. >> Yes. >> Hello. >> He was on there. >> What was his name? >> Matt.
>> Matt Lunstead. >> Sorry. Oh, this the 603 number. >> I'm on the call now, unfortunately, by phone because of course my Wi-Fi crashed right when it was my turn.
>> Oh, no. Um, do you want to like go try to reboot your router or something and try again? Can you could you can't share from >> I tried that. It's not coming back. >> Okay. >> I ran around the house and turned off
all theas and TVs and whatnot. So, um I'm going to have to try it by phone, unfortunately. >> Okay. Um well, I can share for you or I don't know if maybe Bill wants to share for you. Does I now I'm hearing crickets. Um am I
losing it? So, would you if can you see the screen if I share for you or would Bill would you want to share? >> Jenny, why don't you share? I don't have the files available. >> I can share. Okay. >> Yeah, I can't see the screen, but I can
follow along with the additional information we submitted. >> Okay. Uh, let me pull up the application. All right, let me click share. That's always helpful. All right. Is that you, Mike?
>> It's not me. >> It's not me either. >> Those are some aggressive crickets. Okay. Um, my screen is up and so I'm I had I haven't I meant to look at this earlier today and I didn't. I see you um
uploaded some addition additional materials on December 10th. I noticed he literally called them additional materials. >> Yeah, >> I would have put a title on it. So, at least you know what project it's for.
>> Well, it's in we know what project is for because it's under the NOI. So, we it can be to that NOI. So um so uh question number one should the limits on work of work on a plan limits of work have been added to the enclosed revised
plan sheet C2A. So let me actually I can we can multitask here. Um oh I wonder is that probably in this >> it's the same document madam chair. Okay. All right. So, let's maybe kind of
go back and forth here. All right. So, sheet C2A, which is this one we're looking at, and the limit of work. >> I think he put a bold line and kind of shaded everything
>> and put a leader that says limits of work. >> Okay. Okay. I see I see limit of new pavement. Um so this is the this is the road.
>> Yeah. If you look um >> I think it's that gray area on the upper left side of the page. Yeah. There's a shaded gray area and there's a leader up in the under proposed linear sediment controls. There's a limit of work
leader. >> I think it's up to the right, Madam Chair. Uh sort of kind of the comments sort of kind of around 2:00 2:30. >> Zoom is in front of the Okay. On the right, you said, oh, here limited work.
>> Yep. >> Yep. Zoom was covering it. Um Okay. So, and it's this it looks like it's this dash line then or >> the dash line with the shaded gray everything inside it.
>> Okay. Dash line is like a shaded red. Maybe >> the the dash line is the black and then that shaded gray with the cover kind of in the middle. That's the limit of work. >> Okay. Am I losing my mind? I'm not
seeing anything shaded gray here. It looks gray on the screen, madam chair. >> Does it? It looks red to me. That's so weird. Okay, we're And you guys are looking at my screen, so it's definitely me. Okay. Okay. Um,
let's go up to the next question. Properly show the 30, 50, 100 foot buffer zone. So, let's see what we have here. So, those were the the um the line work. It's I know it's very busy. Um but we
had a dash lines blue, green, and red. And >> oh my god, it's literally right in front of me. Yeah, there it is. >> They kind of crash >> because they're on both sides. They kind of crash into each other and and
overlap. It's It's a little hard to read, but um >> So, this is this is the 30 foot it's saying. Okay. And then this is 50. And this is 100
because it's on both sides. It's basically the whole project's almost in everything. Yeah. Okay. And then Okay. Let's see who else we have here. Um get written permission from the land
owner. Um so the butter has received the certified mail because you received the notification that it was received. But you still have not received permission from the abuter.
>> Um, Bill, have you gotten anything? >> I have not. No. >> Okay. Um, all right. So, the D comments, it appears the proposed work would qualify for review as a limited project stream crossing replacement per 310 CMR.
Uh oh, Richard, you have your hand up. I think you're muted if you're talking. >> Yeah. Am I missing something here on these buffer lines? It looks like the 100 foot buffer zone goes through the middle of the pond. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> I don't I don't think these buffer zone
lines are indicative of offsets to the wetland boundary. >> Yeah. So the the the 100 foot buffer that goes to the middle of the pond
is from the wetland on the other side of the road. >> So that's this right here. >> And then the pond's 100 foot buffer is out in the wetlands across the street. That's what's because we're sandwiched
between two sets of wetlands. The the lines are the lines appear like they don't make sense, but they're the one you see going through the pond is is the 100 foot buffer from
the wetland, the north side of the project, if that makes any sense. And then generally when I've always seen buffer zone lines, they're 100 ft from the the wetland boundary.
So did >> right that that red line that's running through the pond is 100 ft from the wetland buffer that's on the north side of the road. Then the 100 foot buffer from the pond
is out in the wetlands on the north side of the road. Yeah. I I guess I've just never seen them drawn this um this conjointed before. >> Mary, you have your hand up. >> I I agree with um
with Rich. Uh so on the one hand I I sort of kind of understand what is being said but then there are weird things like I mean in my opinion um you know and and a lot of times reading I'll just say a lot of times reading these drawings you look at them we haven't
looked at this one in several months so they're pretty busy but it seems strange for the one that um goes through the pond on the bottom of the page right if you follow it up the red line 100 foot buffer along the left hand side, it just
stops at a 50- foot buffer. Like, why does it not keep going along the 100 foot buffer of the wetland on the the upper side of the page? That's strange to me. It It would be easier to read if it actually followed the contour of the
wetland flags at 100 ft to the top of the page. And the same thing happens on the other side of the page, too. Yeah. >> And and then um for the for the one that goes through the wetland on the top of the page, right? If you follow it along
towards the right, you follow the red along to the right, it curves around and it seems like it ends again on what is that the 50 foot another 50 foot line which seems pretty pretty close to the
pond on the bottom side. Doesn't seem like it's 100 feet away from the bo the pond on the bottom side. It I can't make it make sense. Move your cursor down, Jenny. Yeah, follow that. >> I see what I I see.
>> Yeah. And it ends. Keep following it down. Keep following. Okay, there it ends. Right. Right. It's really cool. >> So, take for instance Yeah. Take take flag AB 25 right down in the lower
right >> right here. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. So, actually what it looks like you did is you know rather than outline and moved it 100 ft away from the wetland. >> Yes. I mean this is not delineated properly
100 buffer. >> So the outer edges right. So the outer edges where it curves back north or south don't they should be out further to the right or left. Yep, I see that. So in around the project they're fine because
they're you know they're 100 ft off but out let's say for instance flag EWFO3 02 and 01 they'd be out. Um, yeah, it CAD snapped
an exact replica of the line rather than pulling off 100 ft perpendicular in each direction and connecting those points. Yeah, that I can see that when it turns when it
turns north or south, the lines don't mean anything. They're the wrong spots. I I I forance wrong. >> Yeah. >> But it's just wrong. >> Yeah. Well, look at look at flag BWF-13
on the north side on the corner. >> That 100 foot buffer is going to end up in the middle of the pond on the other side of the street. Correct. So this is one wetland system. You should never have a 100 foot boundary
line within less than 100 ft from this wetland system. >> So I mean the line >> the cover becomes part of the wetland system. >> Yep. >> So it should be 100 feet away from the
cover on either side. and should be following the contour of the wetland all the way around on either side. Should be a 100 foot boundary following the wetland. I thought this uh madam chair I thought
this was the feedback we gave the representative last time they were before us. >> It is very similar. Yes. >> Um it looks like it's changed. >> Where would I guess I guess I'm confused. Where would the 100 foot buffer Let's take Can you see the plan and and
find flag BWF13? >> Yep. So that's right here. And >> so where would the 100 foot buffer for that be? >> So 100 feet away say and this is um so say say this is your your
delineation right here. It would be 100 ft away from here, >> right? Which which puts it down in the pond on the south side, right? >> It would also because it's the same wetland system, it would be also following the contour of the pond like
this. say that, you know, so it would alt >> that's the red line that's up on the north side, >> but it looks like isn't it going directly through >> So there's there's two wetlands. There's
the wetland on the north side of the road and the wetland on the south side of the road. >> So they are >> um >> Oh, I'll let Mary talk. way. Yeah. One way you could explain it um is if you
took each one of those wetland flags and put a 100 foot uh diameter circle on it, right? With that circle being on the outside of a dot, the wetland flag being a dot on the perimeter of the circle. And you did that for all of those. You
would have a whole bunch of superimposed circles. And so then your 100 foot buffer sign would be the opposite side of those circles and making a spline line uh that touched the outside outermost point of all of those circles.
>> Okay. So you want uh Okay, I see. I misunderstood that last time. I took the A series of wetland flags to have a 100 foot buffer that ran along
the north side and the B series on the north side to have a 100 foot buffer on the south side. You're saying you they would those lines in the pond in the wetlands would disappear 100 feet
out from the culvert? >> Um I don't know. >> Are you considering the culvert itself part of the wetland? >> Yes. >> Yes. So, so you think you you're saying wetland flag, let's say if there was a
wetland flag at the culvert limit by BW F13, it would connect down to AB14. >> Is AB14 this one right here? >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. Yeah, there it is. >> Okay. So, the 100 foot buffer is out.
by 505 and there's nothing in Okay. Okay. I I apologize. >> I misunderstood that. Um >> I I guess that wasn't clear last time we were here. So I >> I had him draw two lines. 100 foot buffer for the B series and 100 foot
buffer for the A series. Uh and not connect not considering the culvert as a connection. So I I see what you mean that those lines wouldn't be inside. either of those two entities for the other
wetland flag. That's that's easy to fix. Then we can just pull that. It'll basically make a very short red line out on the outer edges 100 ft away from the cover and going off the page. >> It Yeah, it would apply to all of the um
buffer boundaries 50 and 30 as well. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. Okay. So, it sounds like your plan is to have this um the buffer zones
readded correctly. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we can do that. >> Okay. Let's keep just going through the D questions um so that we can you know make sure we don't miss anything. Um
Mary Richard, do you have any other questions on the delineation before we >> Thank you for that by the way. That's that that makes a lot more sense of to why you had your questions. >> No, not at this point, Madam Chair.
>> Okay. Um Okay. Okay, so for the DB comments, it appears the proposed work will qualify for review as a limited project stream crossing replacement per 310 CMR. Applicant may consider submitting a revised page two on the WPA
form three. And um you said understood, no, thank you. I actually I'm not fully sure what that means. I just want to look at the WPA for three. Does any if anyone wants
to explain this to me, I'm happy to hear it. Revised page two. Oh, because uh checking it off as a stream crossing. That's page three. So that would be
Oh, wait. No, page one. Page two. And it asks if it's a stream crossing on here is what it's referring to. Thought that was on this page. Does anyone have any questions about
that or any comments about the application indicating that it may not be the stream crossing placement? So, I think I think their comment was just we could file as a limited project.
Um, and because we don't fully meet the stream crossing standards, it it there's no advantage to doing that. >> Okay. >> Unless I I mean I if you're if you guys
would be more comfortable with us doing it as a limited project, we could do that. It wouldn't I mean literally just change the checking that box. It It doesn't save us any work. >> Okay. Um
I have I have no comment on that. Does anyone else not? I'm just going to move on to the next one. Madam Chair, if DPW is uh recommending it um and nobody on the commission is opposed, then it seems like perhaps that's the correct course
of action. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, the applicant indicates that the proposed cover would slightly overfill for the 10-year storm, misses by 8 in. I know we did talk about this. Has the applicant considered covert designs that would not overfill during
the 10-year storm? Um yes, considered no history of regular flooding. Over topping with current smaller existing crossing going from 3-foot to existing to 4 foot embedded proposed hydraulic improvement is maximized low headroom to road elevation. So raising the pipe roof is not advised. Ponded water dependent
use upstream fire pond. No normal stream functionality such as narrow shaded channel with undercut banks, pools and riffles, sediment transport, etc. Um, does anyone have any questions on that? I do remember that we discussed this in
the last meeting that we that we heard this. Okay. Um, all the alternatives that were discussed did not fully meet the mass stream crossing standards. The applicant should demonstrate why a crossing which fully meets the stream crossing
standards cannot be provided. Um and then page 126 of the which we did look at in the last meeting. Um mass TP recommends that all dewatering outfalls be directed toward
dissipation device velocity outflows. Um and he said that we could consider specifying as a condition. So I I'll clarify that a little on on our end on Bill and I's end.
>> Yeah. >> Um if if you make it a condition of of an approval, then the contractor has to he can still use his own means and methods of how to do that. Whereas if we
draw a very specific um design and he's not comfortable with it, he might want to change it anyway. Does does that make sense? It gives us that way if we have a condition that we can imply upon him.
He's he's just got to do it in whatever means we can approve rather than us picking one particular way. And that it may not be it may or may not be easy for one contractor where another contractor's
got a slightly different idea. It's it's easier for us to literally tell them you have to do this and we'll approve how you do it so you can meet the permit condition. >> Okay.
Um does anyone have any do any commissioners have any comments or questions about that? Okay. Does not seem that we do. Um, should the commission find the project approvable? The con the commission Oh, Richard, >> sorry about that. I couldn't find the
button, Madam Chair. >> Oh, yeah. >> Generally, don't we just get a general diagram and description? I mean it doesn't have to be a specific but I mean there should at least be a general diagram >> of dewatering structures
and not to have anything at all >> this is it leaves us to generate it that's all >> okay so what would your um was there not anything recommended on the plan or
all dewatering. So just a >> this is my first culvert. Um and so what you're saying is that in Oh, Greg is in here. Um, so what you're saying is
that normally it would be left open-ended so that it would >> or how do you normally see? Let me look at the let me look at the plans. Like if for instance say we show we we if we put
some kind of dewatering methodology on the plan and we show um him excavating 8 ft wide to remove the existing cover. Um putting you know before that putting
coffer dam sandbags in place. then a dewatering well point and we say pump the frack tanks in the road in the closed road because we don't have a lot of room to work there there isn't a lot of open space around
um if if we show that on the plans and that's what you approve and we get a contractor who bids it and says I'd like to build this little um you know silt fence filter fence fabric
and stone 20x 20 dewatering um panel. It's cheaper than me renting frack tanks to handle the the pumped water.
It that would we would have to come back to you and tell you that's how we're changing the dewatering scheme if if if that makes sense. >> Okay. >> Correct. where if we but let me you know let me just double
check. I think we actually show a a dewatering basin like a temporary setup basin like that >> there is >> and I think all they were saying is I think all they were saying is wherever you discharge that you know let it if it flows by gravity or through a little
under drain wherever you discharge that you have some energy dissipation so it doesn't erode. >> Correct. Um, but I I let me I just I need a minute to open the plans and make sure we show uh um
>> so I >> I'm sure we had a D >> one open. Um it's W-1 and it shows the water handling and dewatering detail. >> There you go.
Um, >> it just needs to incorporate DP's comment. I mean, unfortunately, if if you don't have it specific in the application, then they're going to have to come or you're going to have to come before us anyways if you change anything as part of the permit.
So, to leave it open-ended, we're better off to, you know, close it up and say this is how they're recommending do it. If they want to change it, they have to come back to us. So, but I mean, we really have to have everything in front of us for this determination
and to um to vote on it. We can't leave it as open-ended as I think you're looking to have it. >> So, what would you suggest we add to that W1? Um,
usually that's usually >> I'm going to leave that to you. You're the engineer. determine what D's comment was already that into the permit. >> Yeah. So, I'll change my answer to D. I would say it's already there because
what how that how that that basin works is basically it it filters out through groundwater and so there's no point discharge out of it. So, I I can I can um I can change that
answer. So, I I have not submitted these um answers to DP because I wanted to vet them through the commission first because a couple of them were kind of at your discretion and I didn't, you know, obviously don't
want to put words in your mouths and say this is what would the commission decide to do before I answer D. Okay. Um, so could you could you just say that a
dissipation device will be >> Yes. Yeah, >> that that's what I would I'm going to I'm going to add an arrow to the plans wherever there may be a that where I what I'm thinking they mean is a
discharge and just say that addition that exact language. >> Well, is the I mean is the dam the dissipate the dissipation device? I I'm wondering if they're talking about So you do you see on W1 where we show um
um the for the alternate watering alternate water handling plan. We show a a pipe which would be like a siphon basically
to to help run on to help the pond maintain a level with a pipe over the road and out to the downstream. I think they may be just talking about at the end of that pipe make sure it doesn't cause scour. I
>> don't to the road go up a little bit. >> Okay. There's a pipe going across the road there. I think that's what I'm talking about. >> Yeah. Oh, this right here. >> I think that may be what they're talking about. So, if we had a note just to make sure there's >> I I would use that exact terminology.
>> I don't think the flows are going to be that fast in a um siphon gravity system >> like this would be, but we can we can absolutely show um
just just like you said, add that language to a leader. Mayor, you have your hand up. >> Madam Chair, if I may, that note you were just pointing to, uh, I think that note is probably what D actually kind of settled on and said, "Oh, >> yeah,
>> that's not okay." >> Yeah. >> Because it says the contractor is allowed to submit an alternate water handling plan including but not limited to pumparound. And I think D has taken exception to that particularly Yes.
Um, >> well, they don't mention pumping, I don't think. >> Well, okay. I I I as one voice on the commission, I would be opposed to that note being allowed to stay in the approved plan because that's specifically what D is telling us not to
allow. Do we have um >> any other >> I would be okay, Madam Chair, with that note coming out of the drawing and going into the notes and saying that biders could submit alternate plans for review
and consideration, >> which I think would facilitate the bidding piece of it, right? um but not um not constrain us to allowing uh a point discharge um after the fact.
>> And to that point, I would add the language that D has in their letter as far as any discharge that has to be aimed at or directed towards dissipation devices. >> Yeah, I'd agree because from one end to
the other, >> right? They they also may be talking about um you know the silt bag sedimentation basin. They may have a concern if that creates some kind of point discharge
>> um that there'd be erosion associated with that. So I'd like to add that note anyway that any dewatering outfall um be directed towards dissipation devices.
on the plans. >> Okay. Yeah. So, if we can um this is just you know one commissioner also myself um remove this note that the contractor is allowed to submit an alternate water plan handling plan and
then also add that note to the participation device. >> Yeah. Did I hear move that note as a leader and just put it under the general notes? >> Yeah. >> Yep. That's what I I I wrote that down.
>> Okay. >> Madam Chair, I would think we would want it to say subject to approval >> and add subject to approval. >> Yep. >> I'm trying to take notes, too. Okay.
Okay. Um, should the commission find the project approvable, the commission may consider incorporating conditions in the approved order that order that include at least a 2-year monitoring period, steps to ensure the proposed replication and must achieve 75% survival, follow the plant strata, and be considered in compliance
and conditions for the replication and res areas should they fail. That may include the commission requiring additional measures that ensure the function and value of the restoration area prior to issuing a certificate of compliance. And we would normally do that.
Does anyone have any questions or comments about that? And then the next question is about obtaining permission from the property owner of 763 Northfield Road. Um, and we know that that has, as far as we know,
that has not happened yet. Is there do we know if the applicant I mean if the property owner at 763 is lives there full-time? I don't know. >> So that that I was I was going to bring that up. Um, normally when we run into
this, we can knock on a door and say, "Hi, would you consider signing this right of entry? Let us show you." They they do not live there. They live in um I want to say either Fitsburg or Lemonster. Oh, wait a minute. I got the
green card right here. They live in Lemonster. >> Yeah. >> So, it it kind of I that's why we sent it certified mail, I guess, is my the best I can give you.
Can I go back to number five briefly? >> Yeah. when I answer DP um well I guess I guess I'll wait for your discussion and and you know current considering the project but if that's
agreeable can I say yes the concom will set this as a condition for number five >> yeah this is I mean this is something that we would generally do anyway for any sort of replication um >> okay good so I'll I'll I'll note it that
way that yes um it'll be a condition and it's a condition that the concom normally um incorporates. Um do we have any other questions from members of the commission about any of
the things we've gone over? Anything else that we would like to see on the application? Okay. Uh, do we have any questions or comments from members of the public? Does not seem like it.
Um, okay. So, um, the action items I have are to update the buffer zones, >> right? >> And then
move the comment. I didn't write the whole thing down, but um move the comment about the contractors allowed to submit alternate water handling plan from a leader to the general notes. Add
the general note that the um DP had requested in uh question four. And have I missed anything? I think I got them all.
>> We got the one. >> Sorry, Rich. >> Sorry. Which property are we holding on that they do not have permission for? >> The the address of the project, which is 763 Northfield Road. Um it it's technically on
uh somebody's property. Okay. >> So, well, no. Um, work will have to occur on someone's property. We've we've we've we've revised that W
uh sheet C2A shows that the the head wall itself has been changed. So, no, the town won't have any permanent structures on the Butters property. It would just be in order to install that
head wall, we'd still be impacting that that bank near the head wall on private property. So, it's a the right of entry is permission to basically dig out the old pipe where it extends
onto their property, the pond, install the new head wall, bury it, and regrade around it. The regrading being what falls on the private property. >> Does that answer your question, Richard?
>> Yep. Okay. Do we have any other questions? Okay. Um, so I think I'd be looking for a motion to continue to the January 7th meeting. Um, >> so move. >> Okay. Do I have a second?
>> Second. >> All right. That is Richard with the motion and Teddy with the second. Um, to continue to January 7, 2025. I'm going to uh roll call vote. Mike Larouche >> I.
>> Andrea Bernap >> I. >> Richard Bur. >> Hi. >> Mary Wilson. >> Hi. >> Teddy Ducet. >> Hi. >> And I for myself. All right. So we will see you again hopefully on January 7th, 2026 with the updates. All right.
Thanks. Have a good night. >> You too. Sorry about the Wi-Fi. Hopefully hopefully that changes by next meeting. >> Yes, hopefully. >> Okay, >> have a good night. >> Thanks. Have a good night. I see that Greg has joined us. Um so we will move
back to uh new public hearings. Uh if that works for you, Greg. Um >> yes, ma'am. Thank you. >> Okay. So, um pursuant to MGL chapter 131 section 40 as amended in the town of Lindenburg wetlands protection and municipal bylaws. Uh public hearing on a
notice of intent by Steve Bean for a project that involves a demolition of an existing cottage and a construction of a replacement house and deck on the property at 27 Fire Road 15A. Uh I see we have Greg Roy as the representative. >> Um yes.
>> And I know we do not have an a D number for this one yet. So >> that's correct. >> Yeah. Kind of. >> Yeah. So, a little introductory tonight, but I did want to get the commission's um at least first impressions here. Um can I um would it be appropriate to
share my screen? >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Here. How's that? Can Can you see the plan? >> Okay. Bear with me here on getting balls. Okay. Um again, Greg Roy
with Dillson Roy at 27 Fire Road, uh 15A, excuse me. Um thank you for the accommodation tonight. I apologize for the um I I was doing the multi- town dance tonight. >> Yeah, totally get it.
So, um, as as you read, the the property is located on Fire Road 15A. It's right at it's way at the I don't know how many of you went to the on the sidewalk, but it's way at the end of you drive all the way uh down um and you get to a very
steep portion of the um of the road slashd driveway and and then you end up uh down into the uh lower portion of the uh the driveway down in this area. Um, so all the way out at the end of Fire Road 15A, um, kind of tucked up against
the MBTA, right, uh, railroad right away, um, uh, down that part of the, uh, of the lake. There's, uh, there's four existing structures on the property today. Um, there's actually three independent, um,
residential units. Um, and the one we're looking at is the the middle one right here. Uh there's also a garage structure uh that was uh permitted a number of years ago and constructed uh which is down in this uh portion of the site
here. Um but essentially we have um uh the middle um building right in in here that um is in need of um I'll say significant attention.
Uh and the um my client uh Mr. Bean is looking to um demolish that structure and rebuild it on a similar footprint, but he is um looking to uh see if there's a a way that we can um expand that footprint uh
slightly. And I'll go over that uh with you. Um zooming in here a little bit. in red in the dash red line here you can see where the existing uh the limit of the existing uh structure is today.
Okay, the lake just to orientate you is down let me get my highlighter here. The lake is down in this area here. There is it is defined on most of it uh with a um a stone um retaining wall along that
there's uh several docks that are located uh on the property right here. Um the just to orientate you the limit of the 30ft buffer zone is right here. Limit of the 50 foot no build zone is
right here. And then pretty much all of the property is located within the buffer zone which is back which is back there. Um so as I mentioned in red uh right here you can see the the existing footprint of the
existing house um located entirely almost entirely within the 50 foot. Uh no structure offset today. Um, there's also a fairly extensive uh concrete patio area that's located here as we're
as we're uh showing it on the in the hatched area here. Um and so what we're proposing to do essentially is to remove um demolish the existing structure, rebuild
um on a similar footprint uh but he would like to expand the footprint um and square it off, you know, make it more of a a you know squared shaped building uh which is shown in this dark line here with the uh with the hatch.
Um, and that would include some additional uh work within the 50 and a small portion within the of roof area within the uh within the 30-foot buffer zone uh excuse me uh wetland offset. Um what we're proposing to to uh to the
commission to to try and mitigate that. Um we have of course um understanding that the uh commission's policy towards these types of things um we didn't dare come before you without without some sort of mitigation. Um we are proposing
to eliminate the imperous patio uh that's that's shown here in the hatched area um and to re uh lay that with a pvious uh structure um so that we are mitigating imperous area um within the
essentially within the 50oot buffer zone. We did provide you a table um on the plan. It's uh if you're looking at it, it's up at the top part of the table where we outlined the impervious area and compared it uh pre-existing to post uh to after construction conditions. Um
we're also proposing uh to essentially um the entire waterfront area is improved lawn um all the way up right up to the edge of the retaining wall. Um,
so there's no naturalized really no naturalized 30-foot buffer zone to speak of on the property today. Um, it's pretty much all disturbed and approved, if you will. Um, we are proposing on this on the opposite side here of the site um to give back an area and and
provide some naturalized area um right along that retaining wall. Um again in an effort to mitigate um what we're proposing um the the slight increase in the footprint of the uh of the proposed structure uh within
the 50 foot and 30 foot areas. Um we're proposing that in the mitigation package. Um that's really where I wanted to I I wanted to keep it pretty high level tonight. Um I'm pretty certain you're going to have some comments so I wanted
to take them. Um, I also wanted to acknowledge that um I wanted to take your comments and acknowledge the fact that we, as you mentioned, we do not have D comments. So, we're not going to be able under no um um thoughts that we'd be closing this. We we know we'll have to continue
anyway. So, I'd like to kind of get your at least your initial comments on this um and so we can uh uh attempt uh when we get DP comments to kind of compile everything together uh and come back at you with a thoughtful response. So, I
think that's all and again, thank you for the accommodation tonight with switching the schedule around. Appreciate it. >> Um thanks, Greg. I have so um Andrea and I went out there on Saturday. It was pretty snowy, so it was kind of hard to
see um what was concrete and what was not. I know they had a like a deck with a tree growing through it. >> Yep, you do have that. Yep. Yep. >> He did indicate that this tree that's um to the left of the structure that he
thought that he would have to take that down if he were to um re >> I don't recall. And Andrea, um, you could chime in here. I don't recall concrete, but it was maybe it was
covered by snow. Um, so is the concrete is this area. Was it is it in front of the deck that has the tree growing through it or >> Yeah, it's between the So I think the deck is actually over here, Jenny. I
don't think we show that on the plan very well. >> Okay. That's it. >> Sorry. That's as I remember it too, though. >> Yeah. And so you walk kind of you walk over the deck with the tree >> and then you come down and you get onto that patio area which is in this area here.
>> Okay. And that's all that was all covered in snow. So there's concrete under there's the >> There is. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Much to my client, it took us like three or four months to get to you. But we did do that did the survey uh well before the snow conditions.
>> Okay. So, >> yeah, it was pretty treacherous there with the the snow. >> I'm sure it was. It probably was hard even getting down the driveway with the >> Yeah, I have four-wheel drive, so I was okay. I know our agent got stuck and had to have somebody >> come bail her out. >> Um,
>> I saw that on the email. >> Yeah. >> So, um, okay. Do we have any questions for members of the commission? Richard. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Hi, Greg. >> Hey, Richard.
>> Hey, couple quick questions. I see we have a whole bunch of boulder walls on here. Are those on site currently or are those part of the application? >> Those are part of the application. Thank you for that, Rich. Um, so let me go over. So, um, there's a retaining I got
so many highlights on this plan. I apologize. I'm uh there's a um there's an existing retaining wall right here uh and one right here. Um those would have to come out, you know, for for the
you know, for the construction of the new u new building. Uh but we will need to provide a little bit of a grade break there, Rich. Uh still because it's pretty steep. Uh you can see the existing contours here. So, this would be a proposed uh boulder wall. Again, we
want to do that with natural stones. Um, you know, similar, I'm not saying Brett's going to do it, but similar to the walls that Brett would do where you'd stack those natural stones in place. Um, so it's a natural, uh, a natural feature. Um, and then the other
one, um, if you haven't been to the site, it it's hard to do it justice with the plan, but, um, I think that Jenny and Andrew could attest that, um, if you're up here on the driveway or fire road 15, which is really effectively the driveway, uh, at this point, and you
look down, it it's it's quite the slope down here. Um, we're proposing a um a 10 or might even be a 12. I think we're even proposing a 12t
basement pour here. Um, so that we can try to mitigate the amount of earth work that we need um particularly on the uphill side. But even still, we have to propose um some sort of grade break on this upper side uh just to retain the
slope between the um edge of the foundation and the driveway. There's just not enough area to uh to make that work. U so we are proposing a boulder wall there as well, a na, you know, sort of naturally occurring features. So those aren't those two features that I just pointed out and highlighted, Rich,
are not there today. They're proposed as part of this application. >> Okay. And have they looked at just pulling everything back on the property to a little more level area? I mean, I've been out seen it from the water
side looking up at it and the myriad of little walls and things like that that have just kind of been put in there over time. >> I mean, unfortunately, myself seeing all of this new construction down into the the 30-foot no touch zone and then the
the 50 foot You know, I want to make sure that we haven't looked at other areas to rebuild these structures. And just because we had one there doesn't mean we should be putting something back in that spot that's twice its size.
>> And is the chunk of fire road 15, is that a um a deed road >> because it looks like it just ends there at the house. >> It's a really good question, Rich. Uh I and the reason I say that is I'm working
on a pretty large ANR plan that we just submitted to the town of Lunberg planning board um >> further up uh on on fire road 15A. Uh I'm not sure that that is actually a a
uh I think that there are there are easements and deeds reference that that way. Um but I'm not sure the disposition of that of that road. I think it's for I think it's for sure private. Um >> I think that actually my client is the
one that plows it out to Round Road. >> Yes. >> Um >> he probably mentioned that to you. >> Yeah, >> he does the whole thing 15 and >> so so that would give us I mean in in reviewing it that would give us a fair buffer to slide the house out of the 30
and a majority of it out of the 50 or at least any new construction. Yeah, we can certain to your point, Rich, um I I wrote down in my notes uh alternatives. So, I mean, we can certainly look at that and I I can I can uh I can give you some more information on that and perhaps we'll get another
configuration. So, I appreciate that. >> Super cool. Thank you, Greg. >> Yep. >> Thanks, Rich. >> That's all I have at this point, Madam Chair. >> Um Oh, I have two raised hands. Hold on. I got Mary. So, we'll start with Mary. I'm seeing her first. Uh thank you madam
chair. So I I also am in um you know uh really concerned about further expansion into the you know not even the 50 in this case the 30 um and I wondered looking at the size of the garage have they explored adding levels
to the garage and if so why was that rejected? And there is actually on the garage when I we drove up. It looks like there is a level above the You're talking about the garage at the very end of the road of the >> shown right here in the drawing.
>> This one here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Has um a level above it. >> I I don't know what's there, but there is definitely >> a level two it definitely is a twotory structure. I'll That's a great question.
Uh Mary, I'll I'll I'll make sure I I come more prepared with some with a more robust alternatives uh next time. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And then Greg, in your uh in your table, and thank you for the table. Um >> in your table, uh is it safe to assume
that the proposed deck on the structure is not uh counted as impervious area? >> That is safe to say. Yes. >> Okay. So, it's an incursion in the 30. That's a structure. U and I agree it's not and you know most of the time the
way you uh propose those decks out there it's not impervious. So maybe not appropriate to be on this table but it I would look at that as a further incursion on the >> it is definitely you're correct Mary. Yes.
>> Okay. Um that was uh primarily the uh points that um that I had. Uh Madam Chair. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you so much, Mary. Um, Teddy, I saw that you had your hand up. >> Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, hi, Greg. Um, I was just wondering if the
existing cottage is going to be totally uh demoed and the new structure being built from the ground up or is it like some walls are being broken down and you're just adding on to it? >> Yeah. No, great question. Yes, the intention is to do a complete
demolition. The I the foundation's not if if there if you can call it that. I I it's it's just a typical old camp and they want to put a legitimate foundation under it. So, it would be a complete demolition and rebuild. >> Okay. Thank you. I had another um just a
comment of my own opinion. Um like I love the proposed um like native plant mitigation area. Um in my opinion, it just seems kind of minuscule in like the grand scheme of the whole project, but that's just my
one opinion. Thank you. Thank you, Teddy. Um, so I have a question as you uh just you just brought up where the not foundation but the it's like a dirt floor of an old camp and I'm curious how
does that work um as far as like if they if they were going to pour a foundation they would obviously have to excavate. Is that that's wouldn't that be considered an alteration or I was actually thinking about that after I saw the property and I know that they want to put a
foundation in but what does that this is something I haven't come across yet. So wouldn't that be considered an alteration or >> uh well absolutely um you know it's alteration. I think that in practice,
um, so I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at, but I think that let's just say for for the purposes of of answering this question that we were coming in today to ask you for the removal and the replacement of the structure in the
exact same footprint as it is today. Uh, but we're just demolishing it and excavating foundations and putting it on a a modern-day frost wall and foundation, right? But it's in the same footprint. I think that we'd still have
to be here because it's alteration, right? It's al there's going to be earthwork and and things, you know, within the buffer zone and within the regulatory area such that we would have to you'd have to review that in terms of um you know, uh erosion control and and all the other uh performance standards
that you have the weather protection act in your bylaw. Uh but I think that then we might not be um um uh we we we wouldn't be then proposing the the same um further encroachments
into the buffer zone and and wetland offsets that were proposing. So it's kind of two different things. Yes, this proposal has regardless of what we do is going to have alteration because we want to he wants to reconstruct this this structure with a with a new found modern day foundation just to make it a solid
you know um sort of uh foundation moving structure moving forward. uh where we put it. I'm I'm I'm hearing the the things that we thought we were going to hear quite frankly. >> Um where we put it and if we come up with some different ideas and configuration options to move it, you
know, a little bit outside as far away from from the um the lake as we can and things like this. Um that's sort of the the secondary um issue I think. I don't know if that answered your question, but >> yeah. Uh Mayor, you have your hand up.
Uh yes, Madam Chair, you referred to a dirt floor. Is this actually a dwelling that somebody lives in or I mean does it have an actual floor or were you referring to something like a crawl space versus a >> So it's a crawl space. It's like the you know it's a structure sitting on I what
I would call a crawl space. Um nobody lives there. Nobody has lived there for a long time is what I was told by the applicant. But it's accommod it's it's a structure nonetheless and it's accommodated in in the um you know shows up on the assessor's records. Um it it was
accommodated when they redid the septic system and and things like that. So it it definitely is a um you know bonafide uh unit if you will, >> but it's it's it's a it's a um it's a it's not a it's not a modern day
foundation. It's more like a camp foundation with a crawl space with a but it still has floor and living space above it. >> Okay, thank you for that. And uh does it have an existing You said it has an existing septic uh field. >> Yes. >> Where's that located?
>> I think that's located uh over I think it's over here. I'm sorry I can't highlight. Kind of like uh I don't have another plan but I think it's outside the buffer zone. kind of where I say proposed plantings like screen is
it's on the opposite side of the driveway I believe and it was just recently redone I believe I can get I can get some more information on that too but I don't think it's I don't think it's an old system I think it's been recently upgraded >> is it connect >> is that sorry madam chair >> no you go Mary sorry
>> um is that going to remain the same or is there work associated there >> no no work associated we're we're not proposing an an increase in bedrooms uh we would just be uh you know renovating the structure. Um so we would just connect the new structure to in the same
manner that the that the existing one is connected >> and I I am um curious about where the septic field is. I mean if it's going to be untouched I you know probably doesn't need to be on the drawing or anything like that but I'm curious just because as I'm looking I have an app on my phone
that has the property maps on it. It looks like a different parcel is on the opposite side of the uh road. I'd be interested to know if the subject fields on the current parcel or not. >> Yeah, there's uh the property lines out
there are really really uh screwy. So, uh beware beware of using assessor's records on this one. Uh some sometimes assessor's records are better than others, and this is not one of the ones where they're good. Uh so, um >> well, it' be great to be better informed
about that. Yeah, I and you know I run into it. You know, I do a lot of trail work all over the place. So, >> yeah, >> you it it wouldn't be the first time. Probably won't be the last, but it'd be nice to know about this one. So, thank you. >> Yeah, we'll we'll um we'll we'll kind of expand the viewport here a little bit and uh and we we can show the location
of that on there, Mary. No problem. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You saying it was recently redone. Is it um it's connected into the other cottage? Are they sharing? >> Yeah. All Yeah. All three of them are connected to one leeching field. Yes.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. And I So I think it was I don't know the date. I'll have to I I'll get that information for you, but um I believe it was it might have been done when he purchased the property. I'm not sure, but I I think it was a you know, a relatively newer I mean, I don't think
it was done last year, but I think it was in the last maybe 5 to 10 years. So modern-day Title 5 uh repair septic system, I think, um is safe to say. But I'll I'll make sure I get that information um and and get it to you. >> Okay.
All right. Do we have any other questions from members of the commission? >> Just one comment, Madam Chair. Yeah. Um just we had to go look this up uh last meeting and um our uh bylaws don't allow us to permit uh work that further
encroaches or um further increases the non-conformance in the buffer zone. Y >> so that would be as you know Greg is going through the alternatives and whatnot that that would be a thing where I think I would feel we have a hard stop because our bylaws don't grant me the
authority to um further uh increase non-conformance in these buffer zones. >> Yeah, thank you for saying that Mary. I think I would agree with that. um especially where it came up in the last meeting. >> I appreciate you saying that, Mary.
Thank you. >> Uh do we have any other comments or questions? Mike, are you saying something or no? Okay. Um >> I I think I have what I need. I don't
want to cut anybody off, but I I uh I I think I have uh I'm getting the I'm getting the drift here. Um >> Okay. >> So, we'll um we'll uh I'll huddle with my client and see what we can come up with for in uh whatever you meet next few weeks, I guess.
>> Um All right. So, we looking to continue to January 7th, which is our next meeting. >> I think that would be fine. if if it is the holidays. So, um I'll try to um if we can't get you something um within
uh you know, say uh before you write the agenda, I'll try to get a continuence over to you so you don't have to cover the agenda with it. >> Yeah. And uh as always, if you need to continue, just send an email and >> we'll continue. So, >> thank you very much.
>> Okay. So, I have a motion to continue to January 7th, 2026. So moved. Do >> you like a second? Was that Who was the second? >> Teddy. >> Oh, Teddy. You're really the doing the seconds tonight. All right. Um I have a
motion from Mary and a second from Teddy. Uh roll call vote. Mike LaRouche. >> I >> Mary Wilson. >> Hi. >> Uh Andrea Bernout. >> I >> Richard Bers. I
>> Teddy Ducet >> I >> and I for myself. Okay, so we will see you January 7, 2026 or maybe at the meeting after that, Greg. >> Okay, thank you everybody. Uh, happy holidays to everybody. I appreciate the time tonight.
>> Thanks so much. Happy holidays. Okay, um, we went through all the continued public hearings. Up next, we have administrative determinations. I do I see a lot of people on the meeting, so
I just want to do a quick check and uh I see Bill is still on, so I know why uh Bill is up next. Um I see uh Dick, I just want to make sure um what are what are you here for?
>> Uh yeah, this is Dick Fischer. I submitted um requests to take down 11 dead hemlock trees that are, you know, right up against the waters practically on Hickory Hills. >> What is the address on that?
>> Uh 49 and 53 Cliff View Terrace. >> Okay. So, I um I don't have that on the agenda. I do know that the our agent had found some things that were missed and then submitted
it to be uh the agenda to be updated and I don't those were not added. Um let me see if that was one of the things the the revised agenda did not end up getting posted. So let me just
see if um that was one of them. Okay. Yeah. So, that was on that was on the agenda that was submitted to be reposted and it did not end up getting unfortunately for some reason it was not reposted. Um, and so
we wouldn't be able to hear it tonight. Unfortunately, I'm sorry that you were in here all this time. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Um All right. So, what's that mean? What's the next step then? >> So, so the next meeting would be January
7th and we will make sure that you are on the agenda for January 7th, 2026. >> Okay. I'll get an email. >> Um yes, you'll get you'll get notified through open gov. >> All right. I'm so sorry >> there. So, can you explain the problem?
I just not on the agenda. Is that the problem? >> Yeah. So, unfortunately, um, for a conservation for an administrative determination, it needs to be on the agenda and posted 48 hours in advance and her Lynn had sent over a new agenda.
Um, and I'm not sure. I think that maybe by the time they saw it, it was too late for it to post it. Um, but it did not end up being she posted. There's actually a couple more addresses on there. So, I'm going to check with the other people who were on here, too, and make sure that um none of them were
affected by this error either. But, yeah, it just has to be posted within a certain time frame so that it's, you know, within the open meeting law. >> Okay. >> Unfortunately, it wasn't. So, I'm I am so sorry. >> Um, what I would like to request if I
get on next agenda early in the evening rather than after nine o'clock, if that's possible. Um, yeah, let me I think we we we should be able to to pull that off. Usually,
we don't have that appointment that also pushes it back so far. So, usually we move kind of pretty quickly through the other stuff. So, it would not be it would not be this long of a meeting typically unless we have a lot of new um
applications. Mayor, you have your hand raised. Madam Chair, it's your discretion um how you stack the agenda. I just want to throw that out as an option, especially since, you know, the uh office kind of um uh created a hardship for this
gentleman. It's your discretion. >> Yeah. So, I said no, I definitely think that we we should be able to make that happen and we'll get you on early. >> That'd be great. Thank you. Good night, everyone. >> All right. No, thank you. I'm so sorry about that. >> It's okay. Bye-bye.
>> Okay. Um the other addresses that I have, I just want to make sure we have some people in here that um are more than I would expect on the current agenda that I'm looking at. Um ones that were unfortunately left off were 8 Iris
Court. Do we have an applicant from 8 Iris Court on? Okay. All right. Another one was um 41 Hilltop Lane and then 98 Horizon Island Road.
>> Yes, this is Michael Long 98 Horizon Island Road. >> Okay. Um unfortunately, it wasn't posted in time. Um but again, I'm I I'm so sorry. And I can get you on early on the
next agenda, which is January 7th, 2026. >> Okay. My concern is this is an oak tree that was split in high winds and the split has gone from being about 4 feet from the ground to about 12 feet underground. I think the thing is going to go over in the next heavy wind. So
I'd like to take it down before before it falls down on its own on my house or my dock or something else. >> Okay, Mary, give your hand up. >> There's a process for an emergency um >> type of action. I the process Rich may
be more familiar with than I am, but um there is a process for that. >> Okay. And I believe that process is um Rich, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but reach out to our um well, let's let me look at her notes.
She does have notes for all of these. Uh this is 98 horizon. Um, so I mean Herurlin has said deemed a hazard tree and presents an imminent risk to public safety and property. Removal of this tree is warranted to prevent potential injury or damage. Um,
bridges appear structurally unsound and pose an ongoing safety concern. She probably has pictures uh in open gov if I open it. The only thing is that we have not opened this right now. Um, and Rich, the emergency certification
is what that's called, I believe. And >> that would be something that Harland would issue. >> Okay. And then she deems it an emergency or a uh an immediate hazard to public safety.
>> Okay. So, um, were we have these notes from Her Lynn, uh, would that be something that we could use to move forward or should we just have him reach out to Herllin and have her do an emergency certification? >> I would feel better having her reach out and, uh, just issue the emergency order.
That's something she should be able to do tomorrow over the phone. >> Okay. Um, >> and then she can come back at our next meeting for ratification. >> Okay. All right. Does that um work for you, Michael? >> Okay. Now, so how do I get a hold of
her? I found it almost impossible to to call an email and get a response. >> So, um she typically is in the office on Thursday. I will send her an email after the meeting um and just let her know that you're looking for an emergency certification. It sounds like she's
already been out there. So, um yeah. So I think you know and then also Michael Gail our uh administrator is in the office tomorrow too. So between the two of them um we will figure something out for you. >> Okay
right after the meeting. >> Okay. Great. Thank you. >> All right. Thanks so much. >> All right. Um yeah. So have a good night. Somebody will be in touch with you. Okay. Sorry for getting out of
uh order here. Um so up next we have administrative determinations and our first is 833 Flat Hill Road. Do we have the applicant on? Wait, Bill, I just saw you come on, but you're the next one,
right? Are you you're zero Shirley Reservoir or are you both? >> I'm zero. >> You're not Huh? You're not 833 Flat Hill though, right? >> No. >> Okay. So, it does not appear that we
have the applicant from 833 Flat Hill on or uh I see somebody coming on camera, but you're muted. >> Sorry, I'm I'm also here for Zero Shirley. I was just think we were moving on. Apologies.
>> Oh, okay. Um, I just want to we actually we do have notes from our applicant I mean from our agent on 833. Oh, here are the notes. Site visit requested for January. Continue. Okay. Do I have a
motion to continue 833 Foothill Road? >> Some move. >> All right. All right. Um, roll call vote. Mike LaRouche. I. >> Andrea Bernap. I. >> Richard Bers. Hi
>> Mary Lip Wilson. >> Hi >> Teddy Ducet. >> Hi. >> And I for myself. >> Okay. Up next we have um an extension request permit uh for zero zero Shirley
Reservoir. Um, and we have Bill Bernard on the line and also a representative looks like. >> We do have two representatives from VHB. Yes.
>> Okay. Um, do you want to go over what you're requesting? Uh, it looks like we're just putting this is for 8335. This is zero Shirley Road and you're looking to extend
for another was it two years >> ideally two or three um if that's possible. Um this project is going back out to uh bid for uh uh or actual bids from contractors uh in January. Okay. So, we wanted to make sure that it would
be a valid order of conditions for the duration of the project and just not cause any future headaches with that. >> Okay. And then remind me when does the order of condition the current order of conditions expire on this one?
>> This would be expiring in August. It was uh extended through the uh about 2026. Sorry. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, and it was originally going to was that in 2024, but it got the two year extension, >> correct? It got the two-year extension
from the permit extension act. >> Okay. Um, does anyone have any questions? Do any of our commissioners have any questions about those permit extension requests?
And um would would we be looking at maybe who would be thinking 2 years, 3 years? Does anyone have any thoughts on that? >> I have no problem with a three-year extension. Madam Chair,
>> thank you Richard. Does anyone else have any thoughts on does not appear so. So, I think I would be looking for a motion to approve an extension request for >> make a motion to extend the order of
conditions for Zero Shirley Reservoir uh until 2029 August. >> Okay. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> All right. Richard with the motion and second. Mike with a second. Uh roll call
vote. Mike LaRouche. Hi >> Andrea Bernat. >> Hi >> Richard Burch. >> Hi >> Mary Wilson. >> Hi >> Teddy Dette. >> Hi >> and I for myself.
>> All right. That is Thanks so much. >> Thank you everyone. >> All right everyone have a good night. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um we do not have any certificates of compliance tonight or notice of
project change. Um enforcement I let's see we did um I know that we received uh the certified letter back from 1168 mass every year. So the office is working
further on that. Um and 10 mass ab certified mail returned 38 metal lane in contact with property owners.
Um 314 Highland Street violation fine to be mailed. I got to check on that one because I feel like that should have been mailed by now. Um so I will check on that. And then 715 Reservoir Road. I know that the office did receive a letter um from a
representative on that and that the office is scheduling a meeting with them. Uh emergency certifications I didn't we do not have any
um new business topics unknown. Do we have does anyone have any topics on them? Uh I don't no one did any Mac trainings that I know of. Okay. Um notification of well abandonment. I was actually supposed to talk to Herlin about this
yesterday and then I we did not end up having a chance to talk. So, that is still on my list of things to talk to her about. Um, just because we did have some questions come up on that one. >> Madam Chair, um, uh, B, bylaw
discussion. >> Oh. Oh, yeah. I skipped over that. Um, so I did go back and look at the uh bylaws and we do have a uh ear early in the bylaws we do have um some language in there that allows us to hire a
consultant to help with uh reviews. Um and I think that that should the limits on that work I think the limits on the amount of money that we can get for the support for the amount of work that can be done um needs to be revisited.
Okay. Yes, I do. I know we had talked about this before. It's pretty low. >> Um >> I can't remember. Was it 500? >> Do you have it up? >> Um I can get to it really quickly because I was just looking up something
else in the um in the uh regulation uh online. Okay. It was for project costs up to $100,000, the maximum fee we could charge is $500.
>> Yeah. Okay. >> So, you know, in today's kind of consultant um costs, right, that's less than three hours. Yeah. >> Yeah. Nice. >> And
>> and that is um uh section um four E5. >> Okay. >> Okay. Do you have um any thoughts on >> No, but I think maybe Herland might have some better um
better uh recommendations about what to increase it to. >> Okay. >> And and honestly, even if it's not perfect, then it's uh better, right? If we increase it. And the other thing that might be you know uh considered here
because co because costs do tend to fluctuate is that uh maybe uh maybe the fee structures and limitation should be you know moved to a regulation that's e
easier to easier to change either you know by the uh by the select board or by the conservation commission. Oh yeah. Okay. >> So I mean the the bylaw structure itself could allow for the cost and refer to
the other regulation for the maximums, right? But um that would give the uh conservation commission the jurisdiction, you know, to actually increase those fees if that, you know, was what the local economy required.
>> Okay. Yeah, that's a good idea. Does um anyone have any comments or questions on that? Okay. I know. Yeah, I think that's I that's a really good idea. Obviously, I know that that's something that we had talked about before is getting those
fees increase, but also um having it in the bylaw that we can do it, but have it maybe be easily changed somewhere else does make a lot of sense. Um, okay, great. Thank you, Mary.
Does anyone else have anything they want to add to the bylaw part that I skipped over by accident? Okay. Does not seem so. Um, all right. So, on to old business. I don't know. Conservation budget is under
old business. Um, I don't I mean I don't have any updates on budget. I think that the next thing I have would be more of the Hollis Road residents. Maybe I'll wait till there. Um, we don't have any encroachment issues. Does anybody have
any questions on conservation budget? I don't want to skip over it. Oh, okay. Hollis Road residents. Um, we had the locks changed and it was roughly $350. Um, also we did have to put Oh, Mike,
you have your hand up. You are muted. >> Yes. Yes, Madam Chair. I just wanted to It's that time of year, uh, that it's probably time to give canned heating a call so we can service the heating
system for the winter. >> Okay. >> And I'm willing to do that. and they normally charge around $300 or so dollars. I'd like to um budget $400 and we can approve that. Um
so we can get the at least the heating system um cleaned and service. uh we probably won't have to replace the filter uh on the oil tank side since that has
already been replaced uh this past summer. Um so I'd like to see if we could uh get that heating system squared away for the winter so we don't have any problems
with the heating system. Okay. Um All right. Do we have uh is that is that a motion or >> I think >> I make a motion. >> Okay.
>> I would make a motion to um uh approve uh $400 not to exceed $400 for the expenses as Mike uh articulated. >> Okay. Uh do a second. Um, Madam Chair, I didn't um hand up.
>> Hi. Thank you. Um, I'm I'm sorry you're breaking up a bit. What is this heating system for? >> It's for the uh It's for the 123 Hollis Road, the building that adjoins the uh pollinator
habitat. >> Understood. Thank you. I just couldn't hear you at the very beginning. Okay. Thanks for asking, Teddy. Um, all right. So, we had Mary was making a motion, >> and I'd like to second that motion.
>> Oh, okay. Um, so, and that was a motion for up to $400 to service the heating system. We're going to do a roll call vote. Mike LaRouche, >> I. >> Andrea Bernap, >> I. Richard Bers.
>> Hi >> Mary Wilson. >> Hi >> Teddy Dette. >> Hi. >> And I for myself. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. And so the other thing that's going on at Hollis Road is that we've
had to turn the heat on and obviously that's at the um conservation commission expense. I am So we had heat uh heating oil delivered. You also had the locks changed. Uh so just trying to figure out the best way to approach these expenses.
Should we be even though they've already been expended, should we be approving these uh after the fact just so we're kind of keeping it on the up and up is my kind of gut feeling. Or
>> Madam Chair, that's what I would recommend. Um, and I don't know like with the the heating oil thing would be hard to forecast for this year. Uh, because I we probably don't have to keep it habitable temperature, just
nonfreezing temperature. Um, but I think that's all we can do. Uh, and then there's like a really clear record that the office staff can use to approve invoices and whatnot. >> Okay. Um, >> madam.
>> Yes, Mike. The thermostat is set for a 55 degree hole. Um, so we are having minimal heat in the building, but not so low that if something were to happen,
it would get in trouble with frozen pipes. Uh the only thing we don't have is um any way of regulating that everything is normal and the heat is on. Um
so it might be something to think about or talk about at some point. Um you know, you keep your fingers crossed when you get the heating system serviced that everything is going to work. Uh but there's always that one time where
there's an occurrence and uh given that there's no one in the building, there's no way no one to alert us that there's an issue. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Could we go on like sidewalks like
every so often? >> Well, there is a device uh that we have used since we are here in Florida. We want to maintain our temperature >> and our humidity
>> and water. >> And what we have done is we purchased this I think this little device uh that costs roughly $150. >> And you set it up and it works on the uh
the vendor's Wi-Fi. So you don't need >> Oh, yeah. Wi-Fi in order for this to operate. And then there's a monthly charge. Uh the device is $150. The monthly charge >> about 11 >> about $11
>> uh in order. And what it does, it ties into a telephone that in the event that the temperature fluctuates below what has been set. Um, it will alert you as well as you can in turn check it in
anytime you want daily uh online and you can see what the temperature is at in the building. >> And it doesn't have to be yearly. You can do it just for the winter months, >> right? There's no if you wanted to only uh have
the um the temperature monitored for four months, you can do that. So, it would be four times the $11 and the device would be yours uh as long as the electricity is on. You plug it
into an outlet and it will provide you with u that um that service. And if for some reason there was an issue, we could always call the director of facilities who could
certainly take a drive by and check out uh the building. So that would be a recommendation that we could easily do uh approving you know the 150 for the one time charge for the device
>> and um you know the monitoring for perhaps you know until April. Um I think that would be a safe um time period to monitor the building until which time we
you know get to the point where we know what we're doing with that building. >> Okay. Awesome. Um does anyone have any questions or comments? Do you know the name of the device? Did you say >> it's called Marcel? called Marcel.
M A R >> M A R C E L Marcel >> two L >> could be two >> L. Okay, I'm just looking it up. Marcelo temperature and then we used one um I
used to use one of my old work for our green houses but they ran off of Wi-Fi so that that wouldn't work. Um Yep. Okay, I found it. >> Black Friday sale. >> Oh, it went way up.
>> Yeah. Well, ours was >> 150 two years ago. Oh, wait. Now it's Black Friday sale $99. >> They can get it for $99. Black Friday sale.
>> Not Black Friday. >> How about select products? >> Okay. So what? >> So is that something we want we think we'd want to look at?
>> Yeah. Could we have like a a sitewalk visit or a tour of the property? >> Yeah. Well, have you been you've been to the pollinator habitat, right? >> Yes, I have. >> So, it's that house that sits next to the pollinator habitat. It's that property. Um,
uh, we need to get the key from the conservation agent because the locks were just changed. >> Right. >> If you would like to see it, um, I'd be happy to take you. It is, um, it's I wouldn't say it's super
um, habitable right now or pleasant to go in. >> Okay. do you um like what is the fate of that building? >> So that is uh up for discussion. Um that's something
that I was actually going to bring up tonight. I know we um in talking I think that we would have to really put it on the agenda to have a a full discussion about it, but you know, as of right now, it's been it's been under a custodial
agreement where we had um someone living there. they were doing um they under the agreement they were supposed to be doing uh labor in return for a really reduced rent. um that did not always happen, but
the the thinking um last we time we spoke about it was to have it go to more maybe of a market rate um try to figure out what that would be and but it needs it needs a lot of work before it would be
habitable again. >> Sure. And I'd be um I don't know what like we're like allowed to do. I'd be happy to volunteer some hours to go clean it up as much as I can. >> Um I really appreciate that, Teddy. It
um some of the work that it needs that needs to be done is I think we will it we're probably going to have to talk about getting a professional in um to come do some of it. Like we probably some floors are going to need to be
ripped up. Um, >> was there like crash and debris? >> Yeah, it it's Yeah, there's um >> debris and animal feces all over the place. >> Okay. I'm a vette. I can I I'm
been around animal feces before. I cleaned horse stalls. I like I've se I've seen I've seen it all. I'd be happy to go in and like do as much as I can. And I don't know what I'm allowed to do, but um I'm happy. >> Madam, Madam Chair, why don't we get him
a key and um you know, take him over there on a Saturday or something. >> I I would Yeah, I would definitely be happy to take you there, Teddy, and let you um I mean, obviously any any help you're willing I just, you know, let's I think we should definitely have you get
you in there so you can see it. And anybody else is who's interested? Andrea, I do think you went, but did you go inside, Andrea, when you were there? >> I did not. No. >> Okay. You were just on the property. Yeah. I definitely think where it's a conservation property, I think it would
be um really helpful for anybody to uh you know, to see the inventory of things that are under conservation uh purview. Um I actually just saw it for the first time myself a month ago. I mean, I'd seen it from the outside um but I was
just inside for the first time. So, yeah. So, I will The keys were just changed. Uh I know that a key is going to be left with the conservation agent. I was supposed to be off work tomorrow, but now I'm not. Um but I'm going to try to maybe I'll be able to pop in and grab
the key tomorrow. And if you're interested, maybe we could do Saturday or Sunday. >> Yeah. Um I'll I'll get back to you on that. I have to double check. >> Okay. Yeah. Madam Chair. >> Yes.
>> Madam, uh I was told by Chris Ruth, who's the facilities director, who mentioned when he was going to replace the locks, that he was also going to remove everything out of the refrigerator because there was a time
lag between when the electricity was shut off and when it got turned back on. there was still food inside the refrigerator. So, he said he would take care of that. So, just an FYI.
>> Um, and he actually sent an email and said that he did do that, which we really appreciate. Um, I feel like he is I think he's going above and beyond truly. Um, I know that, you know, this wouldn't typically I I I don't know that
this is really something that's typically in his job description and I think that he has just been very helpful and um I really appreciate that. >> I think we have a good relationship with the facilities department and I've
worked with Chris on a number of things uh at as it relates to the Hollis Road uh property. So um I would like to think that he will probably continue in you
know whatever uh support role that he has given us um in the future. So I'm hoping that will continue. >> Yeah. And yeah any any help any support that he is willing to give we appreciate
so much. It's really It's really just very nice of him and our facilities department. Um, yeah, he did say in his email that there was evidence of rats
around the property. Um, I don't know if that means in the house or outside the house. >> It sounds like they're probably in the house. >> Yeah. Um, so there probably rats in the house. Um, which I that could be
something that's been happening since, you know, that might not be something new either. Who knows? Um, >> but typically when the food goes away, they go away, too. >> Yeah, that's true. So,
okay. So, as far as um the budget goes, we have a um a bill from Jim's Lock and Key for $311.84 for changing the locks. Um we have a I
can't even read my own writing. $2849 $2843 um bill from Unatil um for the electric being turned on. And then we have a $685.86 bill from Peterson Oil. Um, which I'm
guessing is filling the I think that was it was almost empty, right? So it was a total fill, >> right? It was empty. Um, that's why the heating system went down um in November.
And when I called Peterson on behalf of Chris Rue, he says that's who the town uses for oil. So all of these items should come out of the hos
fund >> uh to pay for it. And that's what he considers he will do. eventually would send all of those invoices over to uh Michael Gale. >> Yep.
Okay. Yep. So, I'm just letting Michael know that they're coming out of the hospital fund, but I just want to make sure we have full transparency in the meeting. >> Y >> on um you know, the bills that we're paying. I don't know if we want to just have a motion to approve these just so that we you know, are all on the same
page or is that overkill? So move >> was that was that Teddy with a motion to approve? >> Yes. >> Okay. Do I have a second? >> Okay. Um so we have a motion to approve
uh 31184 to James Jim Lock and Key uh roughly 30 to 68586 to Peterson Oil. Um roll call vote. Mike Larouche I. >> Andrea Verna I. Richard Bers.
>> Hi, >> Mary Wilson. Oh, you're muted. I saw your eye, but I didn't hear it. >> Hi. >> Okay, Teddy Dette. >> Hi. >> And I for myself.
Okay. Um, and we'll just kind of handle anything that comes up. uh that way as far as doesn't I don't think we'll have to have heat put in for a while. Um that's actually a really
good cuz I think is that a 275galon tank Mike? >> Yes. And it's an on automatic. So when the Peterson will keeps track of the um um the days what
they estimate uh how much oil will be used at a 55 degree uh constant uh temperature um you know there's some calculation that they use so they will come back automatically so we don't run out of
fuel during the winter. >> Okay. I think that only comes out to$2.49 a gallon. It's pretty cheap. >> That's cheap. >> That's a very That's a good price. >> We're able to get the state price uh town.
>> Awesome. Okay. Well, thank you for Thank you for taking care of all of that, Mike, as always. >> You're welcome. >> Appreciate all of your help with the Hollis property. >> Okay. >> Um Okay. So, um,
>> Madam Chair, uh, how do we further the conversation about the Marcel >> or or temperature monitor? Um, >> because I we don't want to get too far into winter. I don't feel like without having that asset protected because it
could get very expensive if we had to replace all everything with water in it. >> Yeah. Um, you know, it is on sale right now for $99. Um, I'm assuming I mean this is their website, marcel.com. Hold on.
>> Yeah. >> Um, yeah. And this is this appears to be the correct version. Monitors temperature, humidity, and power. Sends alert instant alerts via text, caller, and email. Uses a 4G cellular connection. And has flex flexible subscription options. And it can be
either AT&T or Verizon, which obviously in in Lunenburgg, I think we would want Verizon. Um, and then it is we could either pay an annual fee, which I don't think we would have to because we'd only be really looking for four months,
or $15 a month, or no, $11.95 a month for seasonal, and you can do anywhere from 4 to 8 months, >> Madam Chair. >> Yes. I'd make a motion uh that we um expend the funds to purchase Marcel for
the $99 and uh four month subscription for the $11.99 a month and authorize Michael LaRouche to set that up. >> Okay. >> Second.
>> Um all right, roll. So, I say to be safe, want to say maybe authorize up to $200 just in case anything happens with pricing in between. >> Sounds good to me. >> Yep. I would amend my motion for that. >> Okay. And then uh Okay. So, do we need a
second if you amend your motion? >> Second. >> Okay. Uh roll call vote. Mike LaRouche. >> I. >> Andrea Bernap. >> I. >> Richard Bers. >> I. >> Mary Wilson. >> Hi. Teddy Ducette. >> Hi.
>> And I for myself and um I will we can get it ordered and then I can go. Mike, you're not here so I can go put it in. That is something I am capable of cuz uh that's in my wheelhouse. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um and then Okay. Do we have
anything else we want to discuss about the Hollis property? Okay. It doesn't seem like it. Um Okay. Uh up next we have committee reports. Uh Teddy, do you have any updates from the master plan steering
committee? >> We had our final master plan steering committee meeting where we went over about 80 recommendations from over under um regarding our town. We went through each one of them like line line items and
uh omitted some words, changed some words, um docked some like got rid of some recommendations that we weren't able to like follow through with for like either legal reasons or wasn't um
or we didn't feel like they were necessary to be in there. Um and Kim Duffy, the chair of the master plan steering committee will be in touch about uh the imple implementation committee that will
come afterwards and how to actually um execute the master plan. >> Okay. So it sounds like we have a master plan. >> Yes, you can go on plan lunenberg.org or what woman?
Yeah, plan lunenberg.org. Um, and you can see more details about the master plan there. Um, or you can email or you can go back and
look at the last meeting actually and it it goes over all of the recommendations that were in the master plan. Um, but that that was our uh feedback to overunder and then I think in a couple months they're going to come back with like the actual master
plan itself. >> Okay. So, does this mean that the master plan committee is not going to be meeting again until they become like a true committee? >> There's going to be So, like the master plan committee has like dissolved essentially. Um, and they have to figure out how to approve the meeting minutes
for like the last meeting. Um and because usually committees don't just form and dissolve. So there's some confusion over that. But um in later months the implementation committee will form. Um I don't know who that is going
to be. Um I hope I can be a part of it, but I'm not sure what the what it looks like because it doesn't >> it's a it's a concept of a plan at the moment. >> Right. Okay. Yeah. This is I know stormwater task force like we're a task
force and then if the storm water um utility comes to fruition then we become a committee. So this is this is different because you're already a committee and then you I would almost think it would be like the master plan task force and then it would become a
committee but >> your committee so I joined the committee pretty late >> and like they've been doing it for the last like three years or so and I just got in like late this summer. >> Um okay. All right. So, no more meetings
for that, but then hopefully you'll be able to continue when it becomes a its next uh its final form. >> Yes. >> Okay, cool. All right. I will I'm going to go on the website and take a look at it. Um and then that should be finalized, you said, within the next
couple months, though. >> Yeah, I think they're coming back January 20th, actually. >> Okay. Oh, so pretty soon. I do not like to think about how soon January 20th, 2026 is, but it's pretty soon.
>> Okay. Is that Do you have anything else you want to talk about as far as the master plan steering committee goes or >> I think that's all. >> Okay. Thank you so much, Teddy. And thank you so much for um you know, volunteering to be on that and I'm I think it sounds like you really enjoyed it. So, I'm really glad that that worked
out. Um, all right. Chris is not here to give us any updates on Open Space. Um, oh wait, your little celebration thing just like floated across my screen and it said your name next to it. It was really
cute. Um, I don't know if everybody else saw that. >> We did. >> Yeah. Um, okay. Storm water. Uh, we have not met since the last meeting, so nothing new to report on that front. Um
we're meeting uh early in January um and we'll be hearing hopefully the um consultant that we're using for the implementation of the uh well the socialization of the utility which hopefully becomes a implementation of
the utility um will be talking to us at that time. Okay. Uh, communications, public comment. We do not have any members of the public on. Do we have any communications from the
commission? Okay. Um, upcoming meeting schedule. We are meeting again January 7th, 2026 at 7 p.m. And then do we have anything else that
anyone would like to add? Before we adjourn. >> Happy holidays everybody. >> Oh yeah. Happy holidays everybody. >> Yeah. Uh Mike in Florida, Rich in what was it called again? Exumas.
>> Yep. The Exuma Islands. >> Exuma. >> Okay. I'm interested. So we got Mike with the palm trees, Richard with the turquoise water, and then Mary with the snow. All right. All right. So, I think I'd be
looking for a motion to adjurnn. >> So, move. >> I was like, no, nobody. All right, we have I'm going to take Mary with the motion and then who was the second? >> Second, Mike. >> Okay. Um, roll call vote. Mike Larouche.
>> I. >> Andrea Bernat. >> I. >> Richard Bers. >> I. >> Mary Wilson. >> I. >> Teddy Ducet. >> I. and I for myself. Um, we are journeying at 9:56 PM on December 17th,
2025. Thank you so much everyone. Have a great night. >> Thank you. Wow. Love that water. >> Happy holidays. >> Oh, yeah. Who's Oh, is that Richard? Are you sharing? >> Yeah. >> Oh my god. Look at this. I'm just showing my husband.
>> That is nice. All right. I'm putting it on my bucket list just like everywhere else you've been, Richard. Thank you. >> Thank you so much everyone. Have a good Oh my.