we can be able to they gonna hear it. We have microphones or >> So, Jean's gonna call in um and I'll be watching for anyone else. But, um >> just thinking about microphones if we
>> Yeah, I don't know if we need them. I don't know if we need him for the room because I'm gonna have this puck mic on so Jean can hear us. >> Okay. I'm just wondering if >> that will pick it up, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay, then that's I just That was my question.
>> No. Nope. As long as I don't want to make any more work for anybody. Is this live over the >> Yes. >> So it's not be It's just going to be taped and uploaded to >> Okay. and Jean, can you hear us? Okay.
Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. All right. So, I'm not sure if Anna's on her way or not, but it is 7 o'clock. Um, so let's let's get going. In accordance with the requirements of open
meeting law, please be advised that this meeting is being recorded um and it is not being broadcast live um over the public access channel due to some technical difficulties today but will be uploaded to the um the uh YouTube
channel after the meeting. Um, with that, why don't we just get started and stand for the pledge of >> allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands.
One nation >> to God. >> Anna should be here in a couple minutes. I just got a text. All right. Um, confusing myself. All right.
Any announcements? I guess I will start with the announcement that um, we've been trying to coordinate the final two tri board meetings um, and have settled on Monday the 12th. And I know some people had a conflict,
but I think that's inevitable with with short with short notice. And then I think we'll have a final one on the 27th. Um I had posted on the >> Monday
>> with Monday or Tuesday. >> I thought six. I have I have I have the tri board agenda for the 12th and it says here by board meeting January 26th. >> Okay. >> Is that right? >> Yeah, I believe it was that.
>> Okay. Um, and then Monty Techch I had listed as the 29th, but they've asked to actually go the first Thursday in February, which is the
6th. Um, so that's just a little bit of change and a little bit of an announcement. Um, with that, is there any public comment? The public
You wanna I if you want to introduce yourself. Yeah, sure. >> Hi everyone. I'm Stephanie new representative for a month behind the position now. It took a little while. I just started October 1st. So, uh still new to me.
>> Nice. Welcome. Yeah. So, I invite invited Stephanie to join us. Um, and also if now you could if you're available on that fifth or sixth, whatever it is, that it would be wonderful for you to be there as well. >> Yeah.
>> Um, if you can stick around for a minute, we're going to go through the calendar and I welcome you to just join in the conversation if you um so don't feel like you got to be acknowledged or anything. All right. Is there any other public
comment? Any public comment from the committee? All right. Uh is there any town manager or finance director report? >> You got a seat right here. >> Lacking a finance director and tube. So
>> see there actually is okay. So, thank you everybody. It's good to see you all here in the new year. Um, I'm sure you've been following along a little bit from the outside. So, I'm just going to pick up with the uh finance department report that I gave
last evening to the select board. Um, but if there is some background or steps along the way that you're not really sure where we are with transition, let me know. So, um, we had hired, uh, Katherine McKenna to be the finance
director. She decided pretty immediately that this was not the right fit for her and, uh, gave a immediate 60-day notice. During that time, she did do a fair amount of service to the town. And, um, I'm we are better off having had her here than had nobody in the space. Um
but nonetheless, having um a an opening it filled and reopening so quickly, I think isn't ever good to the public that doesn't who's looking at a job and doesn't really understand what's going on. Um so her last day of service concluded on December 31st. Um
thankfully and gratefully our retired finance director, town accountant, Karen Brochu is local at this time of year and is able um with her retirement to serve in a part-time capacity as interim finance director, town accountant. This is a capacity that she served in prior.
Um so we are meeting the statutory responsibility of having a town accountant on staff. Um her primary focus, however, is reconciling and closing out fiscal year 2025. Um it's January and FY25 has not closed out.
That is very atypical. That is um frankly unacceptable. Um unfortunately there had been really no activity done um with the prior finance director on closing out FY25. So uh that has been
outsourced um to a variety of consultants. Um Karen is uh reconciling cash at the time. Um cash has not been reconciled since Karen Brochu left. Um that is not what was being reported to
me. Um but is certainly um expected to be perhaps a finding on a future audit for FY25. Um, so that said, with her primary focus being on uh closing out FY25, um, she's not really available for much
of the day-to-day operations that you would typically rely upon for your from your town accountant, finance director. Um, the assistant town accountant is new. She's been here for a couple of months. Um, we've had her trained by a retired finance director, town
accountant. Her training is coming along fabulously. Um, she is a great fit. She is rolling up her sleeves and she's I would say that if we did if we were not absent a finance director, I wouldn't still have a consultant assisting her.
Um, but because we don't have somebody here for her, I still do have a consultant in for at least a couple more weeks for that. Um, so the I I just want to emphasize the operational impact of not having folks um and not is is cannot be
overstated. Um it is quite crippling frankly. We also have um the retirement of Nancy Oor who had been our payroll and benefits uh manager uh or director and she had been uh here with us through
October 31st. We tried to get somebody hired uh with an overlap period so that they could be trained. Um that did not work. We have a temp in currently from Robert Half um perform performing temporary services. We have had a number
of interviews. We actually used Robert Half as a recruiter to assist um in getting a candidate who we extended an offer to today. Um, but there are going to be gaps here as well as there's things that simply haven't occurred that
typically would be occurring with uh Nancy uh with the interim and so there will be a period of catchup and ramp up for the new person. Thankfully um if this candidate uh does actually show up, they do have six months of Munis
experience. So that is fabulous. Um so we um we have used both Robert Half and I signed another agreement with complete staffing of solutions to help in recruitment. Um both entities are for the finance director position. Uh both
entities are compensated only if one of the candidates is hired. Um we actually had an interview today with a candidate who came through the traditional route um who I'm passing on to a next interview stage with the chairs of the
finance committee school uh select board another member of the select board and Karen Brochu for a second interview and I have an interview with another candidate tomorrow. So um finally we're seeing some positivity here around
filling this uh seat but again the ramp up and catch up and learning Lunenburg again will take some time but a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel there. Um the school has taken over processing of their payroll. Um they
have been fabulous in their collaboration to take that back. Um, and I'm trying to think if there there's not really anything else related to the finance department. I do have one other update, but I'm going to pause there to see if there's any questions.
>> Fiscal year 25. When do you think that's going to be closed? >> So, the the consultants um know that my request for that to be closed out is January 31st. Um, so far I have not
heard uh that that target will not be met. Um, if I hear that that target is not going to be met, I will certainly report it back. But um you know as as we get into the next part of the agenda and we're talking about scheduling you know even just something like the capital
plan um while the capital planning committee has reviewed all of the requests and there is a list until we know how much free cash there is it's very difficult to actually have a capital plan. So, um, we can have estimates and and plans of what our
plans may be, but, um, hopefully January February 1st. That was a long answer. >> Has anything they said anything that's come out that's surprising or >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Um, the surprise surprising things are that cash has not been balanced since
Karen Brochu left. um that there was um I don't fully understand this but uh in Munis there's some due to do from accounts that are not um do not look like they have been done correctly um just quite a lot of things either undone
or not done accurately um as Karen Karen knows Lunenburgg's accounts um as she's in them if this body wanted to have more of a perhaps in an
executive session perhaps discussion depends on what it is what's found but um discussion of what is being found we can certainly dive deep but if you want a a more uh surface level of what has been found we can certainly do that in open session too as she gets
closer but I I do expect that there will be some issues with this audit >> and the reconciliation cash is that >> also end of the year end of the month >> end of this month I guess that needs to happen before FY25 can get closed out. >> Okay. >> So, that's part of the process in
closing out FY25. >> Um I want to say I appreciate that you're bringing in all the chairs to hire this position. That's important. Um and any type of finance, you know, here. Um can you just confirm that you did say that you were using the recruiter, but
you only have to pay them if you if you hire one of their >> correct? Okay. >> Right. So it's a 20% fee of the annual salary if we select their >> camp. I don't >> This is posted up to 145.
>> Okay. So it'll be up to 20% of that. >> Correct. >> That's a lot. >> Yes, it is. >> Um so I do have a few things. Um, if we select the candidates, I know in
some agreements you can put it at where the candidate has to be employed for at least six months or some places they do it for a year being a fee so high 30 almost $30,000. Is that part of your agreement? Because that's that's a common
>> there. I don't remember exactly all the details but there is like a satisfaction uh guarantee that steps back over a course of months that if the person doesn't work out after this month it get refunded and this month get refunded. I'd have to pull the actual agreement
for those particulars. Yeah, exactly. >> What did you say? >> Porrated. >> PR rated. Okay. Um so there is some clause that prevent someone comes >> you know but the news about the finance director and and you know the captains I
I think it's time for us to really have a conversation about and this is something that I agree with you but I'll share with my colleagues you know the on the charter the town accountant reports to the select board and that's so that that position is
independent to you know everyone in town pretty much reports to the town manager and the town is the one overseeing the books and the idea and when they had the charter review which Nancy Gray was part of it. This was a discussion and um and
I remember Tom Malones actually spoke against making the tunnel count because that position is supposed to review the books, ensure that everything's being done right. Um and there's an independence from the operations of the town. It goes directly to the people
that we elect and the finance director you know is a different position. So I think you know separating those those two position creating a little bit of a checks and balance and also I always thinking you know it's always about what are we going
to do about it also we need to in my opinion we need to bring that position to truly report to the slack board and have more of those meetings with the town accountant where they're reporting to the slack board that they
have done x y and z. Um, we just need to create some better checks and balance regarding this this position because it's not the first time that I hear something wasn't done right and and so forth. So, >> are you saying we're organized differently than the charter?
>> No, I'm saying >> today or the charter changed? I'm confused. >> The charter has never changed >> but through times it has become one position. >> Oh, okay. And through times it has come
that that that that reporting to the select board has kind of gone wayside where it shouldn't be you know it should be that the tunnel accountant reports to the slack board and they are you know ensuring that the operations
are happening and everything is done right. >> Okay. >> Um so that way it's not one line of command all the way down. Um I think we need to think about this is not the first time that I hear of a problem uh regarding you know the happenings of
that and I know there's turnover and so forth but checks and balance in the operations very important especially in maint. >> So I guess I just respond to that in a couple of ways. Um the I I guess the first is a question.
Was there a time when you had a person hired in the town of Lunberg who was an employee who had the title of finance director who was not a town accountant who was not the town accountant? Was there ever a time that you had two people serving?
>> So I went back into town reports um and Taran Bershu was was the town accountant when she first got the job in 2004 I believe. Mhm. >> And at some point she was given the job the title of finance director. I that's not clear when that happened because the
town council is a chartered you know is a I believe it's on the charter. Um so I don't have the long history of it but within the things that I said I also said you know bring that position that role of reporting to the select board more up front so that
>> so the the town accountant is a required by statute that all municipalities have a town accountant. Um there is no requirement that a municipality has a finance director whatsoever. Um, the finance director helps to coordinate all
of the departments of finance, assessing, treasurer, collector, and the accounting department. Um, and and in the absence of a finance director, in the absence of somebody holding that title, those duties of coordination typically fall on either the town
manager or town administrator. And so, it's quite common for there to be a community with a town accountant, no finance director, and there's nobody serving in that role. um in a town the size of Lunenburgg um with a budget the size of Lunenburgg it's quite common
that there is a person that holds a title that is town accountant the statutory title and has that additional responsibility of being finance director um in larger communities you start to bifurcate those positions and there is a finance director town
accountant and sometimes many more layers and the the larger you get up into like the 200 250 plus million plus dollar budgets. Um I certainly am not opposed to having somebody serve as a finance director
that is independent of um the town accountant. Um, however, that said, the town accountant um is a full-time job um is a job that is the primary duties of the position um and would garner a
salary in this market darn near that of a finance director. The finance director piece is a value added on top u for those extra duties. I could not justify at this point um hiring somebody in a full-time capacity to be a finance
director. Um and I don't know if there's anybody that would have the skills or qualifications to do that in a part-time capacity at this point. Um, you know, I I think what
I had rep represented to you privately is that I wanted to really see how we went here for the next couple of weeks and I was going to see if if I strip off the finance director title and just post for a town accountant, would that start to bear some fruit that otherwise wasn't
being borne by the current posting? Um >> because those two functions like having some knowledge of accounting and financing and budgeting, you know, I can see how having those the two titles is actually detrimental to the job post
because an accountant is an accountant and if and someone doing financial planning operations, it's a whole other >> So it depends. It depends. Um it's it's there are some people who only would want a town accountant job. There are
some people who would want only a finance director job and then there's some probably in the middle but there are some that have not um who don't want that extra duty. So within the last week though, I'm
starting to get qualified candidates who are interested in Lunenburgg and who are interested in the duality of the role. >> Finance director and accountant. >> Yeah. >> Do you think the accountant position with the previous finance director, do you think that was a title and grade
change? >> The finance director seems like a higher grade level. So I think maybe that's where those teams started to come in a little bit or mesh in a little bit. Is that what happened >> without I don't know the history. I I would imagine that Lunenburgg like many
communities didn't have a finance director. >> Right. >> A lot of people >> you had who was in lie of the town manager. Yes. >> They did it right. >> And but that was the chief financial what's the >> chief administrative and financial officer. So they did both
>> and then the change to town being >> and that's when the finance director piece came in. That would make sense. >> Or shortly thereafter. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Sounds like a promotion like a promotion. Yeah. >> Within within town. >> Well, did Cameron become finance
director? >> Yeah. From accountant to director >> to And so that way not the same duties. No, no, no. It should it should not be the same duties. It is that put an accountant on >> it's that enhanced overseeing of the
assessor's treasurer collector that otherwise would be absent with >> the same duties when she would >> she no >> no no >> I would not I would not imagine that she was overse as town accountant she would not have authority over the treasurer collector or assessor >> I assume if you ask Karen the history do
it >> yeah okay that just sounds like a title and a great change for someone that was doing exceptional job within the town. >> Yes. >> Um but I don't know >> is the director reporting to the select board and the
count reporting to the town manager. Is that how it works? >> I think it's >> the other way around. >> The other way around. Now if you know one of the things is that the um the town manager reports to the select board.
>> The town accountant reports to the fle board. So if the if if the let's let's assume for argument sake that the town accountant did not report to the select board and that the finance director only reported to the town manager because the
town manager reports to the select board they have authority through if there's something going on >> right >> but I mean yes and no because there's no account manager can always stop that bubbling from coming directly to the
select I I it just we >> don't >> I mean I can I don't want to be no dirty laundry here but um if we could just you know as you explore and I wanted to share this conversation you and I had a conversation
>> um you talked about different things >> um and you know and I think all is valid at the end of the day I think we need to have the town accounted that was very intentional in our charter to be lack report according to the slack board. We need to find a way to bring that
position to talk with the SLA board and whatever your opinion is that's how our charter is to then report yes this has been done you know >> I I believe the charter has or or bylaw has pretty specific requirements for
that reporting to occur. I think it's I think it's quarterly now. It may not have been happening, right? But that's I think it's >> I think so too select.
>> All right. So it sounds like there might be some homework on this and take it under advised and >> and if you want to make any changes to that the bylaw committee is meeting >> now I I think what >> present time you know they're they're they're looking at that. So if they want
if you if you're thinking about making any changes, this is a good time to do it >> if you want. >> I think what Anna is suggesting is that under the correct me if I'm wrong, but under the current makeup of the charter that the way that it's currently
drafted, you could have two different humans and you wouldn't need to change anything, >> right? >> To have two different persons taking those titles. >> They could be combined or you could have two different persons. there would be no change required I don't believe to hire
two different people >> and and or restructuring the people that reports to you which was something you talked about so I'm going to leave it at that um but that's >> many of us in the private sector have
multiple reporting relationships as well so you you can still you could still do that with an account a >> lot of dot dot dots and work charts >> yeah dot lines Now the director reports if if there was a individual human being that was a
director that would report to you. However, if the select board has a is there an issue that came up, they could talk to that person and just like anybody else like the uh uh DPW, if they reports to you, but if there's something that they said, gee, we want to talk to
DPW guy gal, then come in. >> They are appointed in in the accountant at by the select board. They are their direct appointee. >> Yeah. >> So, you're just hiring town right now. >> I'm hiring I'm hiring town accountant, finance director. That's what I'm hiring. That's com combination. That's
that's what's posted. >> Okay. >> Um >> how many positions in the accounting department right now? >> How many >> how many positions do we have? >> So in accounting accounting alone there's the finance director, town accountant, there's the assistant town
accountant and there's payroll and benefits three. If you go to the entire finance department, it is expanded beyond that. So there you have the treasurer, collector, assistant treasurer, assistant collector,
principal assessor, um and then uh assessing admin and data collector. >> And who's accounts payable? >> Accounts payable is the assistant town accountant. >> The assistant town account
>> processes AP. >> And that's the only one place right now. >> That's the only permanent staff of the three. She's doing great. >> Right. >> Okay. Anything else? >> Yes.
>> Okay. So, just an update on water billing. Um, so this is where we are in water billing. I sent out a notification to the 11 customers who receive water bills from the town informing them um
that due to number of issues their regularly quarterly bills were not sent to them in a timely fashion um but that we would be issuing them a catch-up bill uh for their entire water usage in one bill from January 2025 through November
2025. I sent out that letter this week because I'm having um my staff process those water bills currently and I wanted it to hit um those water bills will be in the mail on Monday. Um folks have been also notified that the select board will be considering a rate adjustment
that is actually calendared for uh next Tuesday. Um it's I in a reread of the contract. It is not discretionary. It was not up to 30%. It's 30% over what they charge. So that makes that a very simple vote. Um it's required by the
contract. Um and so after that vote, we will now raise those rates accordingly. Um we still need to do some work in uh dialoguing with Fitchburg um about this, but uh I think there was actually some really good ideas that came from this body about those dialogues that should
happen. Um so that's on the docket, but right now the priority is getting the bill out and getting the money in and paying Fitchburg. Wasn't there bills prior to 25? >> We had build we we have build up through December 2024
currently with build out but we had to get authorization to pay a larger period at town meeting. So how far back we appropriate 90,000? >> We appropriated 90,000. It was there were some the former finance director
had stated that we could make a payment in I believe July or August that we need we needed town meeting authorization for. >> So we got that town meeting authorization in November.
>> So we're paying the bill of the town and then they're paying us. >> And Yeah. So they bill us, we bill the customers, we pay them. I'd actually love for the town of Lunberg to be out of this relationship. >> Is that possible?
>> Yes. >> And so we are we're due to renegotiate the intermunicipal agreement regardless. So that is something that I very I am not interested in collecting a 30% fee on on this as some kind of revenue
stream in comparison to the labor. It's a a resident trying to log on. >> No, it's not. >> Zoom is on. Oh, I mean Jean's on Zoom. >> Oh, >> it's not on live. It's not live. >> It's not on >> or Facebook live is not on. >> Right. But if you log in,
>> I just got to watch for I haven't seen anyone. >> How are we finding the 90,000? >> You appropriated >> at town. >> At town meeting. >> Yeah. one of the >> there was a comment made at school committee meeting that there was money taken from
>> I saw that >> sidewalk grants to pay this >> to settle the water >> no >> I didn't think so >> no so that was um we did so those appropriations at town meeting I'm trying to remember we did used old
capital >> um that was unexpended capital um it was one of those and I forget exactly which we paid for a couple of things with old capital. >> Yeah. >> Um I forget exactly which went to where,
but um there was Ritter ADA upgrades >> that had been placed on right that had been placed on hold >> due to the building and that sum >> if we were to go forward with doing those ad ADA upgrades would have been
woefully inadequate. So it was about taking those funds where they would need it immediately to pay that expense and if and when ADA upgrades are going to occur at uh Ritter whether part of a
larger rolled into the larger building project or some kind of renovation. >> So when we collect the 90,000 reimbursement from the water bills where is that funding going back to? So that's going back to the water enterprise
account and the intent is that we start to generate a a surplus that once that once the account is stable that we can deliver that surplus back to
the general fund. >> So to confirm for the public did not come out of >> the school committee budget school. No, it was that they were talking No, they were saying it was about the ADA. They were talking about the right thing. Yeah,
>> they were talking that statement was made. So, just to clarify, yeah, >> did not come out of >> it did not come out of their budget. It came out from Ritter. >> That makes sense. >> Thank you. >> All right. Any other >> Now,
I can't promise that I'm going to be here forever. >> But the water enterprise account, it's going to take a little while to build back up. Okay. So people in this room need to remember that >> they hit the 30% increase, >> right? So >> that 90,000 needs to go back.
>> I don't understand why it's going to take a while if we're I'm I assume it was depleted because we never build the customers to to for us to pay the bill. >> Yeah. So, we need to make sure that there's enough funds in there for the
revolving account to operate and it will start to generate a surplus, but it'll take time for that surplus to reach the 90,000. >> Why? >> Didn't we not budget 50,000 a year? >> Yeah. And we need to we need to adjust that budget because that's too low.
>> But we should be being reimbursed. It should be a it should be a a wash through. >> It should be a wash through, but we have to catch up and pay back. But we should have 150,000 in the account. >> How much was it behind? >> No, because the 50,000 would not have So
the account itself was not appropriately budgeted at 50,000. The water enterprise for a year runs much higher than 50,000 >> to see. I'd have to look at the >> but I guess where Jay and I are you just
sent you're going to send the water bill for entire year >> over the next week will people pay won't that be total to the bill that we just paid >> that will go into the water enterprise fund. >> Right.
>> Right. And then the water enterprise fund. We we need to have sufficient funds in there to pay the remainder of the bills that we need to pay. I don't know what collections are going to look like on these. Right. I think we just
need to wait to see how this how the surplus grows. Right now I have bills going out. I don't have any money coming in. >> Is there a date on the bill of when these things need to be paid? Yeah, >> 30 days. >> I I I would imagine >> 30 days for like six, seven months or
so. >> It's usually tri town. >> Right. Right. Correct. They're not right because they're getting such a giant bill because they have water. It's not like what my water
>> all these people started at this. >> Okay. And and like trial is a commercial, >> right? So they they they have this cost built into their plan on how they charge for >> it's not guarantee they're going to
>> right. So I I Tritown is the largest right for sure and um I think would have the most fiscal solveny right but there are a couple small there are a couple small ones. So >> we'll just continue to monitor it and and hopefully get out of the water
billing business. >> Hope you keep us updated. I will where we are with >> I will >> I would take the approach unit takes if I have $1,000 this this month on it I charge you >> and let's just get hold on this >> well that's that's why we that you know
there was a talk about whether it was appropriate or fair to bill this entire bill that's right and that's what we determined not charity bill >> and it's thought that they haven't paid any bills in calendar 2025 they did pay
bills in calendar 2025. They were just older bills. >> Okay. Any other topics? >> No. >> Okay. I do now get a ding when someone is in the room. So, >> which I usually can't do because it
>> All right. >> All right. So, the next thing on is the calendar. >> Should I just stay here? >> You can just stay there. Um, so there's two pieces of paper that I handed out that maybe Stephanie if you
want to see it. Um, I did want to start with um, let's just have the conversation on Monty Tech so that um, Stephanie Quinn doesn't need to stay here all night. Um, but
>> we we did ask when I talked to Jen about this calendar, um, was like Thanksgiving week or something. >> One of the things, you know, in my mind is Monty Tech comes in after they've approved the budget and it was always just kind of like here's your bill, right?
>> So, I think it makes sense to bring them in as early as possible. It's not during a phase of the schedule where we're like fighting for time and we're having midnight meetings and everything else. So I have asked that they come in earlier during the time.
I also want to say that as it relates to Monty Tech, my own personal opinion is that um some of the towns like Lunenburgg, Holden, you know, Ashby, you know, there's some
of these smaller towns that are really fighting with budget issues right now. some of the bigger cities basically don't get much of a bill associated on a per pupil um charge associated with going to Montyt. So the the the smaller
towns kind of pay an unfair share of that, right? We can argue if it's fair or unfair or whatever, but disproportional per per student. So I do kind of want, you know, Stephanie, maybe you to engage with us as you're kind of thinking about that. Um maybe just like
we have asked our own Lunenburgg uh uh public school system to cut back on some initiatives and make some austerity measures as they've called them. You know, maybe Monty Tech needs to kind of do some of the same. And I I am a huge proponent of the vocational schools. I
wish we had more vocational schools. I do not think enough students go into the vocations and are kind of pushed into this, you know, um, college at all cost kind of career path when it's probably better for them to go into a vocational education system. That's not what this
is about. It's really just about that. I think I don't know what happens at the meetings. You probably don't either. I do know that Lunenburgg rep didn't even go to at least last year's budget um
meeting to vote on it. Um but I think the smaller towns need to kind of get together and maybe push against, you know, the Fitsburgs and the bigger cities and stuff like that. So I I kind of want this early engagement with Monty Tech. Um I think they do a great job in
presenting their budget, understanding Chapter 70, being able to report on it. They've done great things with their busing situations and their contracts. So, I think they're great at, you know, managing the fiscal, you know, constraints of of of the school. I'm not by saying that anyway, but I would like
to have that conversation before they go and vote on it. Um, and so I think it makes a lot of sense to bring them up. So, that's the one conversation I was hoping to have with you and then in a couple weeks with Monty. >> I'd love to add something to this conversation. >> Anna, Anna, but go ahead. So, I'm not if
I'm not wrong, I believe last year when they came, I believe the amount that they asked Bloomberg to pay is our foundation money and that's set by the state. So,
I >> that's only part of it, >> right? I I do believe that they are it's not just about them reducing a lot of the con contributions have to do with how the state sets the foundation budget and
I don't know total but I I recall being close to like our foundation required contribution is ads and their number is very close. if they reduce what they're doing and
and you know it could be that our bills descent because it's based on our foundation. So I don't recall everything and was my first time getting to it a little bit but >> it is a confusing formula. I will I will definitely say that. >> Uh but I do think when you look above the foundation I think it is like the
Lunenbergs and the Holdens and some of those towns that are >> every town has a different foundation. we get disproportionately filled per student is my point. >> And I think what should be happening is that there should be a solved for
function saying that whatever we do with all this foundation budget and these whisbang spreadsheets that no one makes makes sense to no one. Lunenburgg's Monty Tech assessment year to next year should be aligned with Lunberg public schools and it shouldn't
be that oh you we pumped it through the you know the formula and you're 10% higher this year than than last year. That's my only point and I think that that discussion needs to start occurring and I do think that some of the smaller towns who are need to start balancing
town schools vocational schools which are kind of three different kind of things that get managed here um in such a way. So I'm not trying and again I'm not trying to push back against Monty Tech. I just want to have that
discussion prior to the um to their budget hearing than just after and saying because because then it's just here's a bill, right? So that's kind of my So that that's my ask. Um but I I do welcome the opinions of >> I think this discussion shows that we
don't really have great clarity on how that number is calculated. How much of that comes state mandate versus what they come up with. get an understanding of what that is. >> Yeah. >> Understanding what
>> and we had questions last year, hard questions that he couldn't answer one, couldn't answer because the money was already budgeted, >> right? >> I think they answered questions. I think the dispar like between the towns and this, you know, >> yeah, >> it was too late. I agree.
>> Yeah. So, >> I like this idea. >> Based also on the student population, how many we have going there? That is part of it. Yep. Yep. >> But it's also based on the wealth of the town. >> Yeah. >> And so we have what 100 kids I think or 99. >> I would say at least 90 I thought.
>> And we get charged per kid. >> 101 >> based on our charge per >> and uh Pittsburgh gets has way more kids but they get charged less. >> 300 >> 300. So yeah. So that's how it works. It's
>> also it's a public school in their city. Isn't there a discount for that? >> No, >> I don't think so. No. >> Or is just an admission? >> It's all like Anna said, it's all driven by a formula. But >> over the foundation, they can >> they love formulas in
in Boston. I think the only thing that I want to add and um is that I'm working on the revenue estimate and you're going to have a firm number on Monday for where we are right now, but I estimate our our revenue um funds available for
appropriation beyond what we had last year at being just over uh 1.3 million total to spread across all departments. And um Monty Tech represents a 3% of our
total operating budget. Uh so that would be based on that kind of formula breakdown that Monty Tech we would be prepared with $39,000 of additional appropriation for FY27.
I would imagine that that number is far south of what you may be considering or hearing currently. But for you to bring back to your board that this is the revenue that we're looking at and the 3%
and that really anything more than 40,000 will have impacts to other areas of the town. >> Okay. >> Do we have one or two reps? Just one. >> You're the one.
>> Yeah. Pittsburgh gets three >> based on population. >> Does gardener get three? >> No. >> Oh my >> hurting cats. >> All right. >> Okay. So any other um if you had any
comments as well? I just I I wanted that introduction and I wanted us to kind of work because in my time on fin we haven't really coordinated with the rep. >> Yeah. No, I appreciate it. Um
our meeting last night. >> Great. Thank you. And I think they usually vote on it in March, right? >> That's my understanding, but >> I went back through the minutes. Okay. All right. You're welcome to stay as
long as we stay, but you're also welcome to >> You can keep that if you'd like. >> You want to keep that? >> Oh, yeah. >> Is that a copy? Yeah, >> perfect. I'm sharing with Mike. I'll get I'm sure you'll send some >> digital copies. No, it's in the share or the SharePoint, sorry.
Okay, so the the next one um that was a little bit of an unknown was schools, but I've also heard maybe rumors that schools wanted an approved budget prior to you releasing a number. Is that rumor or
>> I have heard a rumor that the schools want to uh present a true ask of the town manager for their budget that is unrelated to perhaps
available revenue. That's what I've heard. I don't know. >> Okay. beyond that >> and I had further heard I forget where maybe so maybe I'm just propagating rumors that they wanted to do that before you release >> the preliminary >> your preliminary because because I do
think that they're way ahead of where they have been in the past >> they're way ahead and very jealous >> well at the last try they kind triel committee didn't they they kind of presented a a um
basically um this this is where we, you know, where we're going to be. If we want to stay exactly where we are, this is where we think we need to be. And then they also presented what we would like, uh, you know, the if we wanted to be where we wanted educationally because
So, so they've already kind of done that. >> Yeah, they've done a lot of the work. >> Very transparent, >> right? So, yeah, which is great. So, the question is is that >> they're going to come back with this number and we're going to say, okay, your revenue is this, so you got to figure out how to get from there to
there. and but we'll actually know what what some of the the differences, you know, what what do we and so it's it's easier to make those tradeoffs because you know what >> I I will say this if if the $1.3 million
of revenue is accurate. And this was assuming a level uh state aid. We don't know what state aid is it, but I assume level state aid. I don't think that that consensus revenue hearing in December was great uh indicating that we're going to be getting lots of money coming in
beyond what we got last year. So, if it's 1.3 and if I went back to the school's tri board presentation and my tri board presentation on health insurance, if we take out if health insurance is 20%. We
have $86,000 left for all increases across both town and school. >> That's not a lot. >> That's $86,000 for every vendor contract increase, every employment contract
increase, every increase. We have $86,000. >> There's a lot more like electricity and and all the other things that are built in that we don't have any control over that's going to eat up most of that 86 if not all
especially when you are in the heat >> isn't it so toasty >> um okay so >> yeah we got we this is going to be a tough >> have we heard anything from the insurance company uh about is it still the 20% or they've been silent
>> uh we will know that on January 23rd or 24th I forget which one it is But they announce it at Yeah. at MMA at the annual conference. They there they announce what the uh trust range is. So
they'll give us what the trust average is, they'll give us what the highest would be, and they'll give us what the lowest would be. We won't get our specific number until about a month
after. I have not been shy in meeting with our reps saying that we need that number as soon as possible. That that percentage increase is devastating to the budget >> and and that we need and that we need to know. Yeah, we need to know what that
really is so that we're not budgeting to 20% if it's 16. >> Do we know where our claims are at monitor that? Yeah, there our claims are are running, you know, fairly well. I I don't think that we're gonna we're not
going to be like the top end of the pool. I think we should be in the average that So, we don't have huge losses that are we're not in the like 106%. And
so, that's good. But, I mean, last year I mean there were last year there were for example there was nobody that received a 0%. Nobody. So, I think the lowest was like under 10% but greater than 5%. So, if you had if if your
losses were running great and you're making money, you're still getting a rate increase, which is that's usually not the way that goes. >> Okay. >> You know, that's a that's a problem that every town and city in Massachusetts going to
go through. Oh, yes. I think most um most most sts are under the same >> mo the vast majority are under the same carrier. Yeah. >> And I know for example Fishburg selfinsured and they're also running to similar issue. I think last year they
had a 3.5 million deficit on health insurance. Um, so you know, I know we're trying to solve our own problems, which is great, but this is a problem with the state like the state needs to better
fund the town, period. And >> agree >> and you know, instead of I mean I I I believe that you know, health important thing. I seen, you know, in my in working finance, I've seen a lot of people that
have terrible credit scores because they had to make an emergency visit to the uh to the ER. That's their the end of their, you know, ability to ever borrow money or do anything. At the same token,
we can't have the state allocate, you know, $40 billion to their health insurance and gives us the scrap of everything else. And when I say their health insurance means mass health. So,
you know, it's it's just really unfair the way the state is managing all that. And you know, and what's going to happen is we're going to be end up putting more people in the state if the state doesn't start funding the towns properly. You
know, we talk a lot about, you know, welfare corporate corporations that subpay their employees and then everybody else has got the tab for their health insurance. Well, you know, the state is doing a little bit of that with us where they're not giving us, you
know, our share of the money. and and the insurance providers too. You know, I think that last year when I was here before this body talking about the health insurance increases, what we were being told at the time was it was being largely driven by prescription drugs, right? Particularly GLP1. That's what
they were telling us. It's all this extra cost to the GLP1 D. Well, now I hear with meeting with the rep, there's going to be a vote that perhaps our insurance company is not going to cover GLP1s anymore. Okay, that's fine. then I
expect not a 20% increase, right? And so I was again not shy in expressing the opinion do I do not want to see GLP1's taken away and still a 20% in in increase with a new boogeyman to blame
like you know and and to that I got well there are other changing conditions and and I said this is your flyer that you put out with the rationale so I I I don't I Don't know what's going to happen at
that meeting other than the collective groan is going to go across the room but I don't >> really did we lose camera >> yeah just texted Joe about saying something about image corruption or something formatted off the cards she
said to just >> do you want an audio recording or you're capturing on Zoom >> I hope I'm capturing it on Zoom otherwise >> does it say recording >> it said it earlier >> just you should have a little down below is recording. >> Okay.
>> Do we have an external microphone to your >> Yeah, but we're limited now to this. It won't be Yes. >> Let me just This is picking up audio, too. >> Yeah, Jean. >> All right. So, let me just move it as far as it can go.
>> Well, now here >> because our minutes are also done, >> right, >> with the recording. Well, there's a recording on Are you recording on Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Sorry, I digressed.
>> So, there was no at the at the state level. You think there was a big push last year and this year for additional funds to cities and towns, but you don't think that's going to happen at least for school up? >> Oh, I think that there I think there's
going to continue to be a big push for I think we're already seeing it. I think I think if you haven't read the the MMA reports and then the action items that were suggested after that report there is a concerted effort. Um I think the
issue here is that twofold. One is that statewide the revenues are not as strong and that's not great. uh and they are not looking to strengthen based on the current economy, right? And two is um
that I think that there are certain members of the legislature who feel that we do enough and that we supply cities and towns money in other ways. Um and I think that the data shows that that's just not accurate. And and in that
report, you see that Massachusetts lags behind much of the nation in funding from the state. >> Is there a chance? I know that our insurance went up to 17% at Harvard, which is crazy, but they put that kind of on the workers at with higher
out-ofpocket payments. They like adjusted our plans to kind of recoup some of that money. >> So, we are in active negotiations with the public employee committee. >> Yeah. Um I do not see um doing both a
plan design change and a rate um in split change. >> Okay. >> Um because that would be too impactful to the employees who really they're absorbing on their percentage that same whatever x% increase.
>> But what we are talking about with the PEC is a plan design change. >> Yeah. So I'm a union representative there and that's kind of how we went. But it did affect yeah some of those costs within the healthcare programs >> some more choices.
>> Another as you communicate with PC group um an another way to think about this is I mean I think eventually the market will stop like nobody can keep paying this the federal government cannot keep paying their own health insurance. Um
right so at some point the market will correct >> something will crack change or become more stable. So knowing that, you know, maybe with the employees group, we are negotiating, you know, a one-year contract in order
to buy us time because otherwise we make adjustments. They're either not great for the employees or not great for us, but the conditions dra drastically change in a couple years and we're going to be stuck with a with a pro with a contract that might be longer. So maybe
with such a you know variable that are so meaningful maybe that's also something that we can >> Yeah I appreciate that suggestion. >> Um okay so looking through the calendar is there any comments or objections to
the way it's laid out? I I like having schools earlier. I like having Monty Tech earlier. I think we heard a lot of the goals um and plans for each of the departments through the triborn meetings. Um I am
trying to find all of the presentations and uh getting them into our our SharePoint file. >> Um so a group effort on that if you know we should be able to see each of the departments and what they ask for. Um, I
want to tie in topic D, I guess, which is uh maybe into this discussion as well of the potential Prop 2 and a half override. Um, so certainly it seems like schools will will be seeking to make a
run at an override at least potentially. Um the fire chief has um indicated the you know still the fourth ship. >> Um what else
might be in >> we have general town needs as well beyond just the fire the school town fire. Um because one of the things I I think it's important for us maybe to go into each of these meetings with is not only
looking at the budget but starting to formulate our thoughts and our recommendations and our writeups associated with those things that might be sought for the Prop 2 and a half. So, I had in my mind maybe if we had like a kind of a a sheet that we're always
thinking about as we go through each of the budget presentations. And this is probably where we're going to have to focus our attention over the next um couple months is is not only reviewing the budgets, but also our recommendations as it relates to the uh
you know Prop 2 and a half or Prop 2 and a half's overrides depending upon how we >> we'll be ready to >> so you know I supported the first school committee school budget override
request. I voted for my children to show up for for both town meeting and and vote. Um and and at the time I felt like it's not a big number they're asking. It's kind
of you know stabilized school operations and and I can see myself supporting that. And then we have the the fiasco that I happened where twothirds of that money did not got spent
and and I have set very much with me that you know for me once shame on you for me twice shame on me I don't go for the third time just you know I think that the say three times just like no um I I will like I will not do be
personally not the committee but personally I will not support any over operational override before we do the hard work of really looking at the budget, you know, moving things around and and I on the town
side, I made a few notes so just people understand what I'm talking about. So, for example, um trash the recycling that has gone up from $150,000 a year to now like around 500,000. We need to come up with a plan
for freaking recycling. We can't be putting money into recycling for that. And and if it's the case, it's that much. We simply don't do recycling. >> Thank you. >> It's or we can have a station at a DPW that people don't want to do recycling,
they drive to the DPW during business hours, do their recycling, and if they don't want to do that, they can pay for trash to be taken out. Um, and you know, so I can see like a $300,000 savings on that. Um,
you know, I I've been talking about the TCP building forever. That building costs $100,000 to keep it open, maybe more. >> I I don't know if that's going to change. I know we decommission a part of it. And it's like, you know, why like like
it's I I like the functions that it's currently serving, but is it really worth $100,000? Maybe we get a membership for everyone who wants to do something program and go to game on Fishburg. It's going to be cheaper. Like, you know, it's just these things if we just keep wasting money. Another
one that you know and I know this is about shuffling money but our ambulance receipts we have that that becomes part of free cash and therefore we do we can't use this money as part of our operational budget and we do use the
money but now so we have I I think when I looked it was somewhere it was around $250,000 a year that it goes to free cash every year and we use the money but we don't use that money towards operations, but that's an operational thing. We are literally collecting money
for services that we are doing. That's a quick enterprise fund or just a revolving account, just something that will allow us to use >> reserved receipts reserved for appropriation, >> right? >> Just do something and other towns around us do that. >> So that's my hard work. Like I I was I
was thinking about I was going to be talking about it and I made this note, you know, but it's not everything. I think we need to really think about, you know, doing this hard work before anyone asks me, you know, to buy to for an override. And I know we're going to be
talking about um you have on the agenda the capital plan, but since I'm in the rant, I'm just going to keep >> I don't mind it. >> Okay. I So I'm going to tie it up. So, for example, um you know, there I see, you know, the
engine two 4x4 brush truck replacement, $335,000. Uh six wheel dump truck, $41,000. Why are we using like these are big purchases, $800,000, we have a special
stabilization fund. >> I'm using it. >> Yeah. like you know so so that we can take care of other things. >> Um that's one and I'm going to go into the school side on this. I I'm I I don't know what to do because
I whenever I hear the schools talking about improvements or repairs to the facilities of the schools and I'm going to you know and Anthony if you're hearing this you're going to get an email from me with this and some other information. I just want to make a disclosure because I watched their meetings this afternoon
>> from yesterday. >> We just funded a couple years ago the front door something for the Turkey Hill. >> Now I'm seeing here uh primary school entry and driveway expansion design >> primary playground design which you know
but it's cool things primary school window safety film. I opened the FY25 and FY24 accelerated program repair. They do these things. There was literally doors there. So like and when I hear the school
committee talk and they were talking about it yesterday um you know an update to the bathroom basically we have a middle school that's serving elementary schools and the bathrooms not just in are not accessible they're very inadequate because they're done for like you know for middle school
kids and now we have like 8year-olds there >> and at the Turkey Hill school. >> Yeah. Who's in the Turkey Hill? >> The elementary school. So like eight-year-old, >> like little guys. The toilets are too high. Too high. >> They can't get up.
>> Yeah. No, we've been doing this for >> We've been doing this for 14 years and there has been not been a We got to go to the state for this money. This the state doesn't have any money. I just want to say that the state makes no money. the state takes our
money away and it makes it impossible for us to get any kind of funding. So really like I am looking to vote for no incumbent in this next year just no incumbent's going to get a vote for me. So, but we need to do the work. When we
when I look at the list of towns and cities that got funded, it's like they get 60,000 for this 60. It's not huge numbers, but maybe that's an improvement to the ba bathroom that should not have been 14 years. I think we decommissioned TCP in 2011.
And you know, so we got to be willing to do this hard work. And I will I I personally I am clearly enraged personally blood pressure going up. Was given a third medication today. Your face is not red. >> That's okay. Yeah. But before I support
any override from anyone, we need to do this hard work. And and that's that's where I am now. People can, you know, I might be somewhere different, but I feel very strong about this. And um >> so if we tie those all those conversations together, I I if you could
get that on paper and start to formulate like an outline >> of like everything you just said that that would be good for all of us because I think that would be something we work off of meeting >> the meeting. Um but um as it relates back to the
schedule, the schedule is a little bit of like we do these meetings and then at the end like we we don't have anywhere in the schedule to have that our discussion but not talking about >> and I do think that like
maybe it's another tribe board things you know throughout the year here but we're going to need to have those hard discussions of on What do we really do to try to balance this budget without an override? Um
>> I I think frankly it to to have at a balanced budget without an override it will result in service cuts and that's a community decision. But I don't think you can >> we have some $800,000 right here.
>> Yeah. That's not going to make the end meet. So it would be a combination of service cuts and realignment in order to get the necessary funds. That's my initial kind of thoughts right now. >> Yeah. >> Based on community distrust, I don't
think another problem's going to get posted. >> Well, it's how you how you sell it and how you and what it's >> because I'm on this side. So, I have an opinion and I'm gonna say that >> unless we do what Chris is discussing, right, and talk about these things,
>> but there there will be pretty dramatic service cuts. We are not in this is not paper clips and pencils. This is heads. >> Well, let's see where the service cuts. >> Yeah. So, >> so I want to say I want to say one thing. Number 22 on this list, the capital planning list is TC Past deal
abatement. I ranked that number two because of everything else on here. I want that building gone >> and I want the Brooks House gone. >> Yeah. >> Because we have these buildings that are >> that are underutilized or not at all that we're paying all sorts of operational costs for insurance, all
this other stuff associated with it. And we're going to go put safety film on a school to save six seconds of some intruder driving a truck through a window. I mean, it's it's it's silly. the state would could refund half of
that if they felt, you know, is that as urgent as we as we do, >> right? But until those buildings are sold, there is a responsibility for the town to not let a blighted property fall into like disrepair that has they can't can't just shut the heat off and let the lights >> or torn down, right? They're not sold
>> and then >> so tear down. Is that a cost to the town? The other thing that's not yet talked about >> is the track complex because there's a contingent that wants to put in another $6 million the track again. Yep. So I I
>> I will say hold on a second. >> My view on that tear down TC Pasios, move the track out of some, you know, place where water is flowing into and move the track up to the TC Pasios. Like let's make some hard decisions at town.
>> Stop running at Reggie Lewis Center. >> No, I agree. >> Stop running there. >> That's an operational thing in that case. But >> I mean, so I agree with you. Let me tell you that. Um, and you know, and the schools also have to make some I I'll
mention one that I've been talking about with the school committee long before I was in this committee because every year I send them an email and it's something I brought up on the last tri board. You know, we used to get receive $500,000 in our settlement that was for kids that
were coming to school in Lunenburgg from out of district. it's down to like $100,000 and that is a school district school committee decision and they need to hold responsible for that because that extra $400,000 now is coming from
funds available from the town. So these are the hard conversations that we need to have and I am not signing up for another override having these conversations ahead of time and a plan on how they're going to do it. One thing, Jen, that I'm going to
ask you personally is, you know, you said, you know, service cuts and headcount. I like I don't want us to be talking about that >> because I don't want us to be in the same place like the last superintendent was where in the first meeting that we
start talking about budget, she goes, "We're going to fire 37 teachers." It was not 37 teachers, but I feel like So, I'm a little jaded. I don't think you're trying to do that. So if we could have honest conversations about it, >> it's actually, you know, to that point, I I did talk to department heads today
in a late department head meeting. It was supposed to be at 11, but happened to be in court today. Um, so, uh, I did talk to them about, uh, A, if you have not, uh, updated your budget and it needs to be updated since you presented
to the tribe board to get that in. B, to give me a budget, uh, that has a 5% reduction. um across your bottom line how that works. You figure it out with a narrative of how you can cut. I don't know if that's too much. I don't know if that's little, but I'm just trying to
get the areas. Um, and the last part of that conversation that I had to with them was a homework assignment to say, I want you to think about how we talk about this >> because we know that we are into potentially personnel with this kind of
a calf and and I don't want this a a a fear factor where people start feeling some sort of way about their employment and and leave. That happens. Although I think a lot of communities this year are going to be having similar conversations. So unless you're looking
to get out of municipal perhaps there's no safer there's no safe spot. But I think it comes you know you don't want to say oh we want to get rid of Joe Smith everybody's famous favorite employee unless unless you pass an override or we're going to get rid of
this whole section of folks and like I'm not into the threats. Um but I'm also very cognizant of what that does to staff. So, I've asked department heads to really go home and think about how do we talk about this publicly.
>> Yeah. It can't be an emotional decision. >> No. >> Yeah. >> Has to be financial fiscally competent decision. >> And you know, and like I put this together and it's like, oh, $700,000. You would need to fire 10 people to get
>> five because Yeah. But >> except that, you know, so TCP though isn't a zero sum game. So, >> I'm I'm just my point was >> was that we need to do the hard work ahead of time before we talk about
override before we talk about cutting services and laying off people and that's it is my request. I think with um some of those certainly trash is or recycling is a much more transactional type of conversation but TCP on that one
you do have service sectors that would need to go somewhere um and so it's not a reduce down to zero and it's >> it's in there >> so we have um pack is in there um they have two rooms uh we have the food
pantry in there. We have uh wreck in there if we have a wreck director, but there is space in there for wreck. Um and then there is storage in there, offsite filing for paper files. Um as
well as uh some town clerk storage. So storage is cheap. We can find storage elsewhere cheap. >> Yeah, exactly. But the relocating pack is not cheap. Uh >> but they have a a million dollars. >> Yeah. Like
>> Right. But that's right. So So pack moving, right, is not something that happens between now and July 1st. Shutting down TCP and shutting the doors and locking the doors and saying everybody out. That's an easy thing to say between now and July 1, everybody
out. Where do they go? >> And how do we ramp that up? You know, the last superintendent said there's no way in hell we could ever do extended day in the in the schools like every other town in the state does. >> Right. I know. >> And then on a dime they did it. Yeah.
>> Right. So >> that's what happens when you change it. >> Yeah. So I think I think >> she did it before she did because she found that she could save money. Um, as it relates to pack, I think we need
to go rent them some office space in town and just move them like just studio. >> To to be frank, I I hear everything of what folks are saying, but let's talk about reality. I just started this talking about the finance department
transitions and how all-consuming and overwhelming it is to day-to-day operations. For example, specifically on Monday, I came in early with a plan for a 2-hour window to get the revenue budget done. That's when I had my 2-hour
window that went out the door to deal with payroll problems. Went to negotiations. Payroll continued throughout the day. I still we have a tri board meeting on Monday. I did not expect to be in court all day yesterday. I certainly didn't
expect to be called back to court today. I'm doing this by myself. I am doing this I am trying to get you folks ready for a tri board meeting. Trying I'm very frankly I don't know what I'm bringing to you on Monday because I have a procedure tomorrow and then I'm planning
to work Saturday. I'm planning to work Sunday. I do not have the capacity to be relocating any department anywhere between now and July. I will be shocked if we can adhere to this schedule
between now and May. I will be astonished because the reality is I'm not only doing this solo, which is unheard of, but also trying to cover those offices, answer questions, and
fill the voids and gaps. It is. I never have had so many questions about payroll in my life. I have 15 emails a day on payroll solving issues because we have a tempen who has not been trained
and is making errors and we need to make corrections. We are running checks. We are running checks and checks and checks every day. >> I I don't want to get into like that. >> But that's the reality. >> I understand the reality. I understand the situation. You know, I did. Mike, did you have something you were gonna
say? You look like you >> I I the only thing I was going to say is I mean some of this stuff like the TC Pacio hasn't had a paid something you said about you know the field
I mean don't we have a truckload of debt coming due that we're going to release you know and then we could actually start some new projects within the town roll some of the stuff through it. Yeah, I mean we have almost no debt within the
within the budget last >> and then debt >> we've we are retire retired retiring a lot that does require a um >> um a debt exclusion article though. So it's similar to a prop two and a half
over and a vote. Sometimes that's easier to get because people see an end to something and you can borrow for some number. >> Right. I I understand. I'm just I'm just saying like it just seems to me, you know, we're a lot of times trying to roll
just pay for stuff outright when you could roll that into another project. Roll it into a debt exclusively done deal. We're all we are paying for this. No, >> it's just okay >> the capital planning. So we could just do like one through four. >> I I would imagine Can I see that for a
second? >> We don't even have the >> the cut off. I would imagine >> because >> because I am planning to use the vehicle stabilization account actually um Heather uh had planned to use that previously for the first time um in her
last budget but then ARPA funds were available for the trucks. So, I believe we're going to land somewhere around somewhere around the adult activity center network upgrade, >> which I don't think we should do,
>> but like a few up or a few down from there. >> That's probably where the cut off is. Anything at the bottom bottom third of that bottom quarter for sure not funded. >> Did they ask for the outdoor Wi-Fi there? Is that included in this episode?
There's one access point for outside. It's not a substantial. This is to get them onto the town network. >> Okay. >> They're not on our network. >> So that makes it harder for communications. >> I know there was a supplemental ask for outdoor Wi-Fi. >> I want to say that's like under $5,000
maybe. >> So I guess >> so you can play music out. >> I guess back to the schedule. I think the conversations we have to have are more around this than maybe like more detailed in you know that sort of thing.
So because we had it through the summer we got a kind of a head start into and because school is going to present earlier you know that that's not kind of looming over us as well as this last minute kind of thing. So, but these are the conversations I think we the select
board and the the school committee uh need to to really start to have. >> So, if we agree, what's the how? How are we going to do it? Like, are we going to put a schedule together? Are we going to add more meetings? >> Well, there's a schedule, >> but schedule for these discussions. These are discussions.
>> These are presentations. >> I would imagine, Mr. chair that at the 26 meeting some of the tri board some of this is going to start to really take shape at that discussion and that the tri board may decide from there like how where to go from there but I would
imagine this is going to start to take shape at the on the 23rd >> and maybe we need additional tri board meetings right that's what I'm saying like because this isn't a finance we we don't have I mean the select board has to be supportive of this and if the school
part of this is a school thing. They need to be uh involved, not just us. I I I just wanted to say I do really appreciate you talking to your people about uh thinking about what the future holds and how do we handle this and
whatever because I think um the other thing is we need when when this all shakes out, whatever it is, whether we do a we are able to cut money or whatever we're able to do, there's going to be we're going to have to make decisions quickly. That's always the case. And if they're thinking ahead
about, okay, what if you know, option A, option B, option C, then if they have plans that you guys can then come back and say, okay, we can make, you know, with the with the how this is now playing out. This is what we're going to do and this is what we're not going to have. Uh, and well thought out rather
than, oh my god, I'm going to spend the next five minutes doing an Excel spreadsheet to figure it out. think about it ahead of time because I think it's um you know and there there's going to be a lot of different proposals but I think ultimately um if they think it
through ahead of time they can each department including the school department can u make better decisions if they think about it now rather than in in March >> right I think you know certainly a larger department that's facing that
has some high paid staff that's facing a retirement, that decision there is very easy for that department head to say, "Okay, we're not going to fill this." Smaller department, very small staff, those become harder. And so
it it doesn't mean that we're taking 5% from everybody because or it doesn't mean we're taking any percent from anybody, right? It's just outlining where there might be some. One other question I had is um is stormwater gonna come forward with this enterprise fund because
>> as kind of against that one. So you know >> as I understand stormwater task force is meeting tonight. >> Yeah. >> Um with the consultant for the first time I would be very surprised
if they were ready um for the may but I I don't know what that conversation is going to yield tonight. I I would just say that I'd be surprised. >> I just think it's an inefficient way of adding basically another tax u versus
just put it in the operational budget and deal with the debt. Um I'm I'm not a proponent of it. So, and I don't know the formulas either because I think if you're someone that's getting storm water on your property, I don't think you should be paying into the storm
water in advice fund. Um and I don't think they've thought about that at all. Just want to >> Yeah, this is a totally new consultant um that they've used before. Different analysis. Yeah. >> Um we get to talk about the petrol planning. >> Sure.
>> Okay. Is that the item of the agenda now? >> There's five items on the agenda. We can hit them in we want. >> Okay. >> Or Yeah. This >> So, so I have receipts. Um I I watched the
capital Finance Committee meeting. I watched the capital the school committee meeting and there seems to be a lot of conversations about financial planning that's happening that you know this body here is the body that
makes you know advises the town on some of these things and I'm not happy about that because I think those conversations need to happen here because that's our role. I also I am not crazy about
you know capital planning. Now there's this proposal that's going around that it's not capital planning but it's being led by capital planning it the design of the turf and >> it's not being led by >> well it's being led by Peter whose only
function in official town in official function in town is capital planning and I understand he's working on things but you know what I heard yesterday is well you know if we get this money now then there's a chance that we're going to that uh we can have a a foul town
meeting where we can do a non-excluded debt. >> I don't think that that's going to be just to I don't think that it's >> but my my point being these conversations that are very pertinent to this body are not happening with this
body and these conversations and I don't know where they're happening but that $200,000 is not part of this. Where is that money for the design is coming from? You know, like where is that request? Is that a So
>> I standalone warrant article um that you would consider and that >> and you can use free cash for that. >> That would be free cash >> which is comes from which is we mostly use for capital planning. So free cash is used for a number of things but yes most of our capital
>> majority is capital. >> Yeah. So I think that if the if I'm not wrong, the only reason that this isn't didn't go through the full normal capital planning cycle is because the um
the folks were not in place for design the cons the engineers had not weighed in in time for this to come before the capital planning committee. We we just got to my point is we got to have a vetting process for these
standalones is either standalone and these conversations are happening with the finance committee. >> Well, it's going to happen with the finance. >> If I could may if I may just finish and that plan is happening here or they're going through the capital plan. That's that's what we need to to have.
Furthermore, um, as related to capital planning, you know, we need to start pushing back. I know the schools are going to say they don't have the time to engage with the SBA because, you know, it's not a lot of money, but like all the towns, there was
like millions millions of dollars associ given to school districts to do minor repairs. 60,000, 30,000, 100,000. Why aren't we putting these items through the MSBA? They just need they need to figure out this is the hard work because
every money that we're paying in full, we're not using for other needed projects. So, I I would hope that you know the capital plan pushes back and say, did you submit the request to the MSBA? You you got to be a registered
person with them, be a official representative, and it's really not that hard. I I do think the schools is living off of what we tried to do last year and got pushed into this year. We're on our third facility director or something
since John Manda and no one writes anything down. It's all in everyone's heads and their notes. There's no archiving of of these things. So, he's going back through each of the schools again >> um to to determine what the needs are after the
>> year. this here. These items need to be we need to be reaching out to the MSBA. It the applications open in January some point >> and and we need to go to the state to get some of the money that we pay in taxes back to the town. >> So this is the rank list of priorities
as seen by five people in town. >> I understand the representative, >> right? I I understand. >> But hold on. What's not on here is the various funding sources. And if we think that one of the funding sources for one of these things could be a grant through the SBA, >> MSBA,
>> MSBA, then we should we should um we should identify that, right? The grants are always something that is a little bit >> um forgotten through the process in my opinion. And and lastly as regarding to
capital planning um I think it was around 2011 based on our borrowing um history but we did do a borrowing and I and this was for trucks and different things and that might have
been where that you know special stabilization fund was created after that but maybe >> I think you're right >> maybe you know like with these other projects coming up like you and I get it like if you're going to build a field at the turf and I agree with I'm not a
civil engineer but you what you said about the location of that pl that field makes a lot of sense if you're going to do that if we need a few other smaller projects we can wrap that up and do it as one excluded much shorter term versus
trying to squeeze you know 200,000 here and then another $4 million of you know regular debt that now we are having to have to fund it and pay from our operate our operating budget. So we need some
financial planning around these things to come up with a plan and you know and that's the kind of hard work that I think we need to do >> and and not think that you know I I I don't want to do you know it's hard to
do a an excluded that but that's what we have to do we have passed it we have passed excluded that for for those purchases around 2011 we have pass excluded that for payment manage management plan is a much easier cell to the public to say, "Hey, we're going to
do X, Y, and Z. We're going to borrow money. We're going to solve these problems because that was the pavement pain payment management plan, and then we're going to be in this position versus trying to squeeze another project out of our operating budget that it's
very thin. >> We did it for the CIA type property, right? >> We did it for the CIA property." Yeah. Mhm. >> So, we need to be able to have these more than talking about a specific budget or it's going to forever be with me the
name tag for the libraries. We need to have be able to have long-term wholesome conversations about our financial needs, where our funings are, where our resources are, and march towards that. >> And I do think that, you know, I think
Jen agrees with you on that. She's just as she said >> underwater >> a little bit underwater but I think I think I do agree with >> I think that too as I understand the capital planning committee has said that you know the focus now was to get through the FY27 request right but then
you guys were going to come back and look at at the out years with more scrutiny after kind of before the fall but after this time period because I think I was going to say, but I think it's
actually got some legs. And I think that what happens is when people submit their capital plans, everybody says, "Well, this year is reality. Next year is kind of reality." And then there's like some multi-million dollar thing that's always on years three, four, five that just gets kicked kicked kicked. Right.
>> I think some of them are much better though. >> And so, right, but it's it's a wish. It's sometimes a wish list. I think it's so it's a it's not really year two, year three, year four, year five are not really your capital plan. It's your capital request. So I think with that
work this year would be really developing what is the plan for the outy years. >> Yeah. Our motto was kind of let's make the capital planning committee a planning committee not the capital ranking committee which is what it has been. >> Correct. and and and I absolutely want
the capital planning committee's advice on funding and that's >> so where where is your ranking as related to this? >> I I so I will say that I am overall satisfied with the ranking done by the
capital planning committee. Um, I generally agree with the priorities. Um, and then it's going to come down to what do I have available for funding to make that list. And until I know how much
money we have, I can't really rank it. Um, some of the things that we talked about is again like last year, you might recall that there was a jump in the list because maybe a couple spots where we jumped where there was only so much money to go around and rather than do a
big project, skip over that one and pick up a few below. That may happen again. >> Um, remains to be seen. I did tell Capital Planning I would come back to them once I had the funding source and share my thoughts and engage again. Um,
but overall I've been I think at every one of every >> I've been at every one of the capital planning committee meetings and and have general agreement around their funding. I mean their prioritization. >> Yeah. And I think we're also very lucky
and I know that you know we're thinking that we're not talking about it here in the finance committee but we have Chris who's representing us at this capital planning committee and we have this opportunity to have these discussions with you because if we I sat in on one or two meetings when Chris was out um
and a lot of discussion and thought goes into these things that we don't see. We just see like the these dollars. Um, so I think it's a good opportunity for Chris to even like come to this meeting and explain those things out because I don't have time to watch like 20 different types of committee meetings
um, every month. One of the things that um Chris asked happens uh for this committee between uh the the ranked order and and be having those capital presentations to you is that there's a uh a kind of a
template or format that everything will have the same same view. So, I have Cara in my office. If anybody's looked at Bill's submission, um, where it's a nice, it's very GFOA, Government Finance Officers Association
friendly. It it lays out the justification of the projects, all sorts of different rationale. And I have her taking everybody's and putting them into Bill's style. >> You're going to get a prestigious budget award or whatever it's called. >> And oftentimes we have to step at a
time. oftentimes we have to do these small things so that these people feel like they're valued in the town and that's really important for residents and also departments that they are heard and valued. So to see something small get done and they have that feeling of
they listen to me. I have this small thing even if it's not a huge thing we have to kind of spread it out. I agree with the rankings. >> Well I I I was gonna say say one thing you know the primary school design playground 30,000 for that.
When you decide how much money you want to spend on the playground, you call any playground company and they will do the design based on the space and the money you have available. I find this to be a waste of money and and and I I did go through Marshall. I I I learned a lot on
that. So I actually know that is the case. Once you decide, I'm going to spend $200,000 on the playground, $300,000 on the playground. These these companies, they're, you know, uh, whatever they are by the state that you
can just go a code, they're approved by the state. >> Oh, on the state business, >> right? >> You can get them. You say, you know, they're approved by the state. >> You can't generally >> they have for pieces saying this. >> Yeah. So for for construction which this so I
think what you're suggesting is just go for construction. Um do >> yeah go for construction and so >> waste of money. >> So in order to go for construction you need to put out an IFB and if you don't have the technical specifications that
you get from the design and engineering I don't know how you would put out that IFB. So, I will give you information because I unfortunately learned a lot of things that I never probably use it again. Um, so for projects under a million dollars, you can you don't have
to do a construction. I believe the market might be actually 1.5 million. >> No, no, no. You need to go through procurement for for anything over 50,000 for construction. Um there was there there so there is a
type of project that is I think the number is 1.5 that you can >> you might be talking about whether you need an OPM or not and you don't you need an OPM above a threshold but I'm happy to refer you to the procurement charts so you can see um but you do need
to procure um over $50,000 for construction. You can use you do not have to procure design and engineering that's exempt for procurement. you can just pick a designer. Um, but the difficulty is if you do not have the scope of a project,
how do you put out an IFB for what's the construction's going to be? >> I know. >> You know what? I did the IFB uh for several of the Marshall projects. I'll tell you how you said >> you haven't done construction. You've done the design. >> I did. I did. I I did because the IFBB
for for the it was for it it was for the design during construction. It was a part can Can I just have We never put out an IFB for construction of that. So that's that's a different project. >> Can I just finish I
I I think there are other ways to do it where and you know I'll I'll I'll find a few >> if you Yeah. If you want to research it, I'm happy to look at that. >> It would be something like design and construct a playground. Please allow me to finish that.
>> I'm just breathing. >> Okay. They'll serve the elementary school children up to this age with a budget of X. That's that can be there's different ways to do these these I would like to see a successful project that was had a bid put out in that way. I
think and I'm not saying it doesn't exist >> because you can do according you can do design and build >> you can do them together. I'm just saying that I I would like to see that in in a >> and that's what I'm saying. Make it a design and build
>> IFBB versus let's spend the money on design. It's it's it's Anyway, >> we can revisit it quickly. Go over the capital. >> Go. >> Is that is this a new playground or replacement playground? What's the >> playground?
>> Taking out the playground that's there. >> So, it's a replacement. It's that playground as I understand is a couple things issues with it but the biggest is that it's oversized for the age of the kids. >> Yeah. >> That's and >> so there's there's kind of two things
going on and at one point these two projects work together. So the real issue is the entry right and exit of that facility. You sometimes can't get emergency vehicles down that that driveway when people are parked in the wrong spots and everything. So, as in a
normal Lunenburgg project, the parking and and access was not properly designed when it was built. So, I think that that kind of goes first and then the um the playground itself may be impacted by that. Um so, you kind of need the the
driveway one first. Then the location of the playground would would be determined and they would design one that is um an inclusive playground. One, we don't have one in town. And then two is that it would be more age appropriate. I don't know why they put in a playground. It
wasn't >> Yeah, it's not. >> So, Jen, with them like pushing that park >> back to the town. >> They didn't officially do that last night even though they said they did. That still needs town meeting boat.
>> Yeah. I was like, >> so the funds that they're going to save there that they're putting into if that happens. >> Okay. Kids Kingdom. >> Kids Kingdom. >> Yeah. Can that be allocated back to like maybe >> I I don't think that they're saving a whole heck of a lot of >> they've been doing money.
>> Well, I don't know what the maintenance schedule is. >> It's just the they're right now taking care of I think trash and clean up and and we are taking care of repair. Um >> so we're really just doing it anyway. >> Yeah, this is it's all right. >> Yeah, there's
that still does need a town meeting vote. >> Okay. It didn't. I think some members of the school committee thought it happened last night. >> I was like, did that happen? >> No. >> Thank you. >> Well, just on the playground, if you're going to move the driveway and stuff and
the playground comes afterwards, how do you put the two together? Because once you move, you don't know what's going to happen. >> I think they'll be done um first driveway expansion >> design >> design and then the playground design will come.
I mean there is >> the construction may have to occur in tandem. Is that what you're you're getting at? Construction. >> Well, until you know where the driveway is actually going to end up playing for place, right? >> Well, they they know that if we had that discussion,
>> they would do it sequentially like that. I it's been like that since the beginning that that access like doing that in a one of the playgrounds versus doing it in the
schools. I mean how many how many playgrounds do we have? Is there one in every school? Well, I mean the primary typically have a playground for >> I had four square on black say that was it.
>> No mro public I don't even think we had that. I don't I I I do think that that playground is pretty long. >> Yeah, it I I remember back in the day they it's used even on weekends when they have they have a lot of soccer
stuff and then the playground is >> either the siblings or other kids are there. I don't know who they are. A lot of the siblings probably are just there having a great time. So, it's a it's a wellused thing, but I haven't been there. I think this >> my memory is that.
>> So, is the goal is they're going to be >> widening the road going in or making it go around the building or >> Oh, I don't I think that's part of the design. Okay. But yeah, I mean I think it needs to be wide for sure. I mean, >> I don't know if you gone there on
Saturday soccer days. I mean, >> people park on top of the no parking signs. Yeah. on both sides and you can barely get through with her. >> We had a we have a one of our friends, we had to pick up their daughter when she was there. She's now in middle school now, but back in those days had
little buss with her name on it so that they would know it was it but it was it was like, "Okay, can you do it, Tom?" Oh god. All right, I'll do it. But it was a hassle because it's signs and the buses and the some uh you know, one of the teachers go this. Oh god.
>> I just generate revenue with the parking ticket, right? you by the police department. >> It's a it's a tough thing and you figure that it was built what 20 plus years ago. So it wasn't like cars weren't around and all those things. But like
anything else when somebody designs something there's always something that's not perfect, >> especially in public. We had where I worked, we had a we built a new um uh parking lot for our uh our headquarters and we had we had all these
great uh because we wanted to make it look nice. It was in the center of Pittsburgh. wanted to really bring up the area and uh people were complaining like soon as we we finished it all up and we thought it was a beautiful thing and again we can't get around because like biggeriz trucks couldn't go around the corners didn't have the the turn
radius wasn't perfect and we had hired a company to do it and so we had to like do it the second time it it it just happens so I'm I think it's a good thing that after 25 years we're going to finally get that fixed
>> all right so in SharePoint is also >> can I just so in the shareepoint is also the presentation throughout >> um if anyone wants >> in the shareepoint in the in the budget section under this site going in for did
find all of those >> um the my last comment about these projects here you know I I know we don't have to go be, you know, follow a competitive
process for design, but I always find it healthier to do it. Um, you know, like when you're talking about a $200,000 fabric self shed for anti chemicals and blah blah like we should go through a
competitive process, not just get an estimate. I know we don't have to, but it's pretty big ticket. And you know, including the the one that Peter was talking about for the turf again, we got an estimate and we yesterday he said, "Oh, it doesn't have to be a competitive
process." I think it should be like it doesn't have to, but we probably would be best if we do. >> They put a number of engineering firms, I think, out in the quote process. I think they've had three. >> I don't know because it hasn't been brought to this committee yet.
>> I I know. I was in CCD on meetings meetups that there were multiple engineers that were going out to look. I mean it it depends right. I think sometimes there are reasons why you want to use a specific design and engineering firm and you want to go to that firm whether it's because of their expertise
or your past experience with them or they have something else going on in the town. And then there's other times that you're absolutely right you want the market to dictate. >> Yeah. Especially and what I've learned is that when you put make it a competitive process, you end up learning
from the bids of other companies that you can then make it a part of, you know, your final contract and you know, you learn new things and uh sometimes the bids come in better in a competitive process, sometimes they come in worse in
a competitive process. So, it's all it's all there's not a like I don't think a bright line rule here that that is the ultimate best practice. >> Um, >> you can disagree. >> I'll disagree with you because >> and just remember everything. It's not just the practice placement, it's also
that >> the wall. >> So, >> the um the tri town meeting on Monday, there is a preliminary fiscal year 27 budget plan discussion. Um so in that and that that's one of the
agenda items under the new business. Um would that be a good time that we as a I won't be there but um >> I won't be there either. >> Okay. So >> who will be there? >> I'll be there. >> You'll be there when it >> Monday >> at the school. >> Can we bring up some of these things
that we talked about today? Some of the things you brought up or others that >> Monday >> um >> Monday. Yeah. Is it against town bylaws for Anna to put all this into like some type of spreadsheet? >> No, you've discreet or whatever you do. >> You've discussed it. You've discussed
it. You shared it. Like it's Yeah. No, there's no issue. >> Deliberate. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Deliberation. Just to be deliberation. If if Anna sent I'm just going to pick on you because we were talking about you. So, if Anna sent an email that said, "My feelings on this
topic >> that are is a matter that's under the jurisdiction of the finance committee are as follows." And nobody else respons responds to that email, that's still a violation. >> Okay. Um, if Anna says my opinion on
something that's totally unrelated and has no jurisdiction of the finance committee, maybe a non-monetary board of health matter. Did everybody see this? If it's not a jurisdiction under your body, that's that's not an issue. It's the definition of deliberate is about
sharing your opinion with a quorum. But I think if we say in this upcoming meeting we're going to talking about this topic >> right >> here is the material that bring yeah >> into the discussion and no one comments on it and starts a discussion on it
>> with us that's how we >> so she can because we want I want to represent what you've said here because you have a lot of really good points >> and like three of you can get together and have a discussion >> right so >> yeah so if like the three of you >> but what you can't do is three of you
can't get together and have a discussion and then any one of you in a further discussion go have that discussion with another member >> but she can share what she's written down >> that's a note that
>> that's some distributed absolutely >> need to deliberate on >> okay >> because I don't remember everything you said but you have a lot of good points >> supposedly is going to be recorded >> I think so we're going to be at the school No, this this or this. >> Okay. >> Yeah.
>> Anything else on capital? >> Just one other thing. What was the >> this was any decision made regarding was talking about the police cruises going back to gas versus hybrid? >> Yeah. At least one of them is going back to gas
>> alternate. So like they won one. >> Yeah. I don't agree with that. >> Well, >> you just all gas. >> Oh, hybrid. >> Oh, all hybrid. >> Gas. >> I would go all gas. >> Yeah. We're gonna have a new charging station because it's $45,000 when the batteries fail and the batteries are
failing within like four or five years. >> Who says that? >> It happened to two of them. >> That's not what I'm seeing at all. >> It happened to the cruisers back to back, >> aren't they? >> Thankfully, they were within months, I think.
>> We're down if it fails. >> Yeah, I just disagree. both former police chiefs that the hybrids say gas and they say wear and tear and we're a green community and a sustainable community and you know
because we had an issue with one or two vehicles >> about a electric vehicle. It's not electric. It's hybrid. It's gas. >> You're ripping saving gas. >> Minerals out to form batteries.
>> Well, you rips out to build anything. >> But additionally, if they're breaking down, how are we going to explain to somebody that we can't get there because our vehicle's down? >> Everything breaks down sooner or later, >> right? >> All vehicles buildings, right? >> Oil system hybrid compared to gas.
Yeah. >> Yeah. >> These vehicles end up typically being four to five years because of the high wear and tear on the vehicles. And so that does make them questionably sometimes an operational item. Some some towns treat it as an operational
expense. Some towns treat it as capital expense. But uh specifically to the the hybrids, I think it was a coupling of the batteries and also as I understand the officers um their operation of the vehicles I think is different.
>> Are there charging stations at the police department? >> No, they have not. So >> it's the it's the idling that they have a it's the idling >> low speed. They run off battery when they're parked. >> They run off battery. Is there is there
an alternate? I mean, there are we have all Ford hybrids, right? They don't >> Ford race interceptor hybrids. >> Yeah, they don't have the best uh track record. >> Who's saying that?
>> Not me, but the Ford F-150 hybrid, which is the same system as Cruisers, >> had a uh Consumer Reports score of two out of 100. It managed to score the lowest of any vehicle ever.
>> So, >> Mike could provide information to us and we just can't deliver it. >> No. And I I just I know this because a guy I worked with had one. >> Yeah. >> And um it he he sued Ford. Take it back. It was so bad.
>> I have hybrids in my fleet. I have a 2023 F-150 hybrid and a 2025 Ford Explorer hybrid. Hybrid Escape hybrids hybrids. I haven't had any issues with them. >> But is it a different wear and tear from the police department to the are you sewer DPW
course >> both of these are take home own vehicles put mileage on >> but even the police department I in my town which has a lot more vehicles than we do here I haven't heard of them have any issues with hybrids >> and I asked the Ford dealer that I deal with if this they've had an issue and
they haven't seen it. talk to dialogue with Jeff and the vehicle has a 100,000. >> Yeah. So, Chief Tibido is very approachable um I actually got a tour of the the public safety building um to see some of these
issues and stuff. So, you know, if anyone wants a tour, I think he and Chief Sullivan are willing to to do that as well. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Anybody wants a a kick the tires on any of these things, go out and look, you know, uh, feel free to email the
departments that requested them and just say, "I really want to look at that old sixheel dump." You have >> from 1984. Is that when it's from? Is that right? When was it? >> No, that's a fire. Fire truck. >> That truck 1984
>> I was three. >> That's crazy. >> I didn't class. >> They do. Yeah. >> In extension of the whole DPW thing, he was talking before about taking pulling the snow surface back into town less clock. Did we do that? Because I I see
like primarily DPW trucks now doing the plowing. >> It's a combination still um that we have our staff driving our own trucks and we have contractors driving our trucks and we have contractors driving their own vehicles.
We actually had a complaint that we allowed somebody from New Hampshire to be plowing our roads today because they had they had New Hampshire plates on their vehicle that was plowing. >> Oh, no. The roads are great comparatively.
So, >> okay. All right. Anything else on those topics? All right. So the other topics we had were town meeting discussion. We've actually since >> No, we have not. >> Uh you want to put that on?
>> Yeah. So So anyway, um I know I I you weren't here for the hearing. >> Um and and uh which was very unfortunate.
You know, we we did get an email from a resident um that and I think she spoke publicly at this. >> I've talked to her. >> Um I I feel like there were I I wasn't necessarily satisfied with all the answers that we got prior to
town meeting. I just did not have enough information. Um I I do feel like some of the you know, I'll give an example. the um the money that we are assigning to Crest for the estimator, right? And that was a
pull back from a capital planning. Um I think operationally speaking I think we need to look at all our capital plan pro monies and make a less of what we're going to pursue or not and you know make a move generally
>> we have that and I don't like peacemealing these things because it feels like you know creating too many purses of money that I it's not my favorite honestly I would have prefer if Chris had personally speaking if Chris add that as part of his operational
budget as Bill has it as part of his operational budget. >> I I would agree that I would prefer things to be in the operational budget but we do not have the capacity to be adding things to the operational budget. I mean >> I mean we just had the 50,000 WSI. So
anyway, as regarding to Tom meeting, um, by the time I got to us, a lot of these decisions, you know, about what to do financially and so forth had already happened and, you know, and I supported those things. I'm just hoping that as we
approach the next the, you know, the many more type of meetings you're going to have with us, we're going to have these discussions prior to some of these things being finalized by you. um so that we can have an input because that's our role versus I I don't think our role
is to just rubber stamp or knock something is to participate on that on on that and I could go on into other things you know like the um the paying the water bill perhaps we could have used the civilization fund that to the
moderator didn't allow us to do >> I I thought Mr. Bowen's suggestion was great on that actually. >> Right. But but you know if you would have come if we had that that conversation with this committee prior to that meeting we might have have got
there. Um so what I'm hoping is some of these things are happening these conversations are happening ahead of decisions being made and when it comes to us is not just rubber stamp something or not. So I think um I think communication on all sides could be
better and I think that um one of the things that I would be asking for specifically from finance committee if is there if there is something that you want a presentation on if you want somebody particularly to come if there's something that you want to engage around
well it may be something that's very intuitive to you and you're saying well of course the town manager is going to blah blah blah um don't make that assumption if there's something that you're desirous of, please reach out as early as you can so that we can try to
accommodate what those requests are. Um, I can't promise that the information is uh going to not come fast and furious. To the contrary, I can almost guarantee that information will continue to be fast and furious um as it progresses. But here we are and it's January 8th,
right? So >> I think generally speaking, special town meeting doesn't have as many. >> No. And then this year we tend we snuck we didn't see but some got in there that probably needed more time for coming.
>> Now one was a total surprise at the last minute. I got it on the 90,000 >> bill. Yeah. Um, I know you and I were able to talk um at last minute when I returned from my trip, but um >> yeah, generally speaking, we should we
should if we're going to get in the practice of putting a lot of money to war articles and not just just these routine pay blah blah blah, then we're going to have to have more meetings leading up to that. And I don't think we should do it. I don't think >> special
I've as Fair enough. Um I've asked for all folks, well not the public but all departments today and when we talked about um warrant articles that specifically when they submit warrant articles as soon as they come in that they are copying the clerk and copying you. Okay. Uh so that you you have
awareness around what those articles are and can start addressing them you know >> maybe peppering them in if they're ready. Um, and I did ask I mean you have the warrant on that schedule that we have the warrant the subject matter for
warrant articles. So I just want to talk about that for a second. It doesn't mean a final draft warrant article. the subject on all matters that a warrant article be should be drafted could be drafted around must be submitted by that March 16th date and then you have uh
hopefully a final vote on March 19th um to vote on the final warrant that a a submission date to a final warrant in three days is probably darn near impossible unless folks get their warrant articles in in in as close to
town meeting format as possible. as early as possible and we can get them over to you. But um the a lot of the a lot of the details are often in the motions. They're not in the articles as you know the articles are the articles are generic and the details are in the
motions. And so I mean I I understand that you know the information will be coming fast and furious >> up until the last minute >> but it doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to do better. I I don't disagree. That's why I said I think that communication
can be improved all all around. >> And so if there's things again specifically, let me know if there's I did tell all the department heads um the schedule today. Um I asked them if there's any scheduling issues to get back so we
could rearrange them. And I also told them um anybody that uh had capital is expected to be there at the capital presentation and everybody is expected to be there um for the public hearing. So that that's a specific piece of feedback that I was not aware of that
folks want all the this is an example folks want all department heads there at the public hearing so that if there is a question that is to their um area that they are there to answer it as the subject matter expert. So that was relayed today. I have a question. How do
you decide for a town meeting the order? >> It depends >> of the agenda. >> Do a couple town meetings now and I'm like they're sneaking this in at the end when people are tired and gone. >> It depends. I mean I think that there's a a general order um of articles
typically that is dealt with um besides that. >> Well, I think >> I said a select boards warrant. >> Okay. I and I think in the past >> zoning articles are usually at the end. >> In the past there has been first >> there's been some very heated arguments
among slack board members and I remember Dave Matthews was the chair at that time and was clarified that the chair of the slack board decides the final order. >> No, that it is the select board's warrant as a board. Um it is it is a
vote of the board on the warrant. It is not the chair's unilateral decision. So I again I'm I'm relying to you what I remember about what happening in a >> in a it was a very heated and animated argument between Dave Matthews and this other member.
>> So they vote on the order. >> They vote on the on the warrant. >> Okay. >> And that includes the the order. So like which articles are making it, which articles aren't, and the order. >> So as they vote, that's how they're going on. >> When do they actually do the order?
Because I've never heard them. I don't recall if he didn't talk about the order. >> I think they just approve them with the order that that is presented. So they're the order first draft. Okay. Okay. >> But they I mean they move they since I've been here this board has moved the
order around. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Usually it's it's the standard stuff in the beginning. You know a lot of the power here and then Yeah. And then it's and then it's then it's the big anything big and then usually at the end it's
some smaller stuff or a specific area and then at the end there might be some >> the other thing that >> citizens petition >> I just want to point out since we're talking about authority and and warrants and >> I think that this actually came up in another community um so not here but um
there's a a misunderstanding I think of what the warrant closing means and what that closing date means that is a date that applies to everybody except for the select board. It is the
select board's warrant and they can include items on the warrant right up until they approve the final warrant. So that doesn't often happen. I think this happened in another community where the select board at the very end did put something on and there was a challenge and >> all right I've just seen some pattern
>> and additionally like people coming in for one thing and then they empty >> yeah that happens that happens >> you put that at the end >> yeah I mean sometimes there is that right sometimes you do put things at the end because you want to hold the sometimes you put things at the end because you're trying to hold a quorum
you're afraid that you're not going to hold a quorum through >> there's all different Someone will call up something wonder how was done. I'm sorry to just like war and eight's going to be in an hour. So come on in. >> Right. Although you never know what's going to take correction, >> right? Yes. >> Chickens.
>> Weed killers. >> There is an article on chickens and banning chickens. >> Hours. >> No, no, we need our chickens. >> It doesn't matter. >> Conservation. >> My first town meeting, I was there because of dog leashes. >> Yep.
>> That's another good one. our life, you know. >> Oh, the best one was the plastic bag. I never heard >> so much talk about cat litter as I did on that night. Like >> people using >> the cat such a subject. >> They put the plastic bags for their for
their shoes to keep them dry. >> It was awesome. >> Okay. Um >> any other thing on town meeting? >> All right. Um, we have tri board I put tri board discussions prior and upcoming just in case there was any anything on
those. >> Well, we talked a little bit about maybe the next one. >> Okay. >> Um, I didn't have any old business. We have minutes from 10:23 and 11:13. >> Yeah. >> All right. Can I entertain a motion to
approve the minutes of 103 and 11:15? Did >> you see my correction? I said mute. >> Yeah. One of them. >> Yeah. Okay. Was that made? Do you know? >> I don't know. I didn't get any response. So, >> did you send it to just me? >> I think you and
Daniel. >> All right. Um, with the inclusion of Jay's comment that >> you made comment about that. >> Well, he's on. >> Oh, wow. >> You don't want you don't you don't want to get stuck with that. >> You're on the building design
committees. Oh, yeah. You had made a >> I didn't I didn't notice that. >> Voices. >> Yeah. Oh gosh. >> Yeah, >> that's rough. >> Correcting that. >> Without Okay, so as amended. >> Yeah. Moved. I moved your motion. >> Okay. >> So, second.
>> Okay. So, we're going to have to roll call. Um, so, uh, all those in favor, uh, Jean, >> I, >> um, Mike, >> I, >> Anna, >> I >> Jay, >> hi. >> Tom,
>> hi. >> And an I for myself. All right, >> Mr. Shim, just for the record, I'm just going to say that motion was made by Anna Lockwood and seconded by Tom Gray so that Danielle can hear. I think that was the only >> Oh, yeah. Thank you, Danielle, for keeping on top.
>> Yeah. >> All right. Are there any committee reports? >> You know, we talked about this. We don't have committee assignments. So then there couldn't be committee reports except for armed reserves. >> We could kind of
>> um I know I have not been assigned any. >> No. >> No. >> So um I'll put on >> an upcoming >> right. So for action I think Jean has been but action for topics meeting the
committee assignments. So >> admissible building committee we haven't had a meeting for a little bit. I just got an email uh from our chairman today but uh I'll find out guys. I think
we want to move move ahead on that um discussion. The other >> big shout out to the third grade that scored really high >> in that report today. >> Yeah. >> So awesome >> today. >> Well, last night. >> Oh, okay.
>> Yeah. Remember how they said at the tri board meeting that the um metrics were really falling below. >> Yes. >> It does not seem that that is the case. >> Got to cut their budget then. >> Let's reimburse that because you're overachieving. Can't have that.
All right. Um any other topics for um future meetings? And if anyone has anything along the way, just let me know. Uh so Monty Tech will be our next um topic plus committee assignments. Um
all right. Any public comment from the >> public? Right. >> Any public comment for any of us? >> I'm going to try my best to give you something to look at for Monday. Set
your expectations to zero and hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised. But >> it would be brilliant that they're already there. >> Yeah. No, that's fine. They could be there. They could be there. That's fine. Fine.
>> All right. Um, with that then I'll entertain a motion for adjourn. >> Second. >> So move. >> Oh, so moved. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All right. So, uh, J moved it. Seconded it. >> Um, all right. So, uh, Jean
>> I. >> Uh, Mike. >> Hi. >> Ha. >> Hi. >> Tanya. >> Hi. >> Jay. >> Hi. >> Tom. >> Hi. >> And I for myself. We are adjourned. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I think we should do all our meetings down here. I like his stuff.