lunberg Finance Committee meeting um in accordance with requirements of the open meeting law Please be advised as this meeting is being recorded and broadcast over the Lunberg public access channel and on Facebook live on the public access Facebook page and will be uploaded to
the Lunberg access YouTube channel after the meeting Um for anyone interested you can go to lunbergmma.gov under calendar Uh there's an agenda for the meeting which lists the zoom as well as the phone uh to
participate in the meeting And with that if we can stand for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for
all [Music] Okay so we have one member Jay who was unable to join us tonight Anna is just running a little late and then Tom Gray is on Zoom which means we will have to do roll
call votes for everything tonight Um uh in general tonight is about um voting on articles Um we had a public hearing a couple weeks ago Uh we've allowed kind of public comment throughout our entire
process this year Uh so I would ask that you know I I think we've all had a long season Um many of us even watched the school committee last night till the late hours select board the night before So um you know I'm not going to discourage
public comment and public hearing but you know let's keep it short if possible and um and let us get on to the to the votes and then we have to workshop our final report just cuz we're we're running late on time
Um for announcements um I think the big one is just town meeting now May 3rd 2025 We'll pretty much wrap up our budget season business tonight We can talk about at the end if we need additional meetings between now
and town meeting but um we may get some time off in April Um all right Uh with that is there any public comment from the public [Applause] good evening everyone Uh John Bowen 162
Highland Street Uh forgive me Uh my public comment is with regard to the uh DPW's request for $50,000 for road expansion in the Upper North Cemetery Um I know you're going to touch on that uh um budget but I don't know if you're
going to touch on that specific item So on that particular item there's no topography map up there There's really no plan for that entire development of that area They're just going to throw a road down on its existing uh surface So obviously dig down put some rock and
then put some tar down That's all they're going to do Um my concern with that is is that as I had raised at the last meeting that does not uh facilitate the actual need of the north cemetery or the south cemetery in its entirety Now
if we look at the select board uh meeting yesterday they opted not to do crack sealing They didn't want to do crack sealing because they found a better option At the last finance committee meeting I gave a better option And I know this board nodded their head and took it into consideration my statement that applying electricity is
the same cost $50,000 That electricity by the plan that the DPW has that was set up by Todd Holman Okay And discussed with the DPW and discussed with the cemetery commission who opted not to put it on the table Well on Highland Street and Homeman Street light up the flag
pole put electricity in that area go inside the cemetery light up the four veterans flags um in the veterans area and the plaque that highlights the uh names of the Revolutionary War veterans uh and some other plaques over in that
area It'll also provide additional electricity for the mausoleum In the south cemetery it'll do the same It'll highlight the sign as in the north cemetery the flag pole inside the veterans area That's $50,000 But it also provides an electrical service into the
cemetery that does not exist to this day That is a much more viable option uh to do than would be to put something down over something that doesn't have a full plan And we've discussed this and this board has said no plan no money And I
hope that you will take that tonight as no plan no money but the electricity has a plan and it's $50,000 If you would like to spend the taxpayers $50,000 that's been allotted for that I would recommend some sort of alteration or
change request to that to be able to do the electricity which would basically be a utility useful And then that could lead to you know using that kind of electrical apparatus to be able to run plumbing later to do sprinklers or to do other things Do you know what I mean
because we already have a service in there So now that's a 20 year 30-year usability instead of a road that's going to end up having to be redone Okay because that's not done right proper up top there There's wetlands there's water issues none of that's been done by
Dallasos and Roy They only did a survey plan Thank you Thank you Uh Dave Pacios Yes Thank you uh Mr Chair Dave Pacios Presidential Highway Jefferson New Hampshire formerly of Lunenburgg Um just
uh would like to talk to you guys Yep I can Is there an issue from my end or something else we have no audio in here from the Zoom Let me see if Dave test
Dave you want to test i don't think Dave can hear us at all Dave say something But it's I can hear No it's we cannot hear them Yeah Can you guys hear me in the hall now you cannot hear me whatsoever I
guess I'm good on Zoom I don't know about in the hall I think what we're hearing is them in there on the Zoom Yeah I think this is what happened last time that Joe had to correct Maybe you're
going to pop out Maybe we should spend the $50,000 on speakers for Yeah I don't know what it is Sure We should write this down so when it happens they have some type of record of That's a quick test Can someone test
yep I can test Okay No it's the same volume This is Dave Pacios Can you hear me it's We can hear them but it's extremely fake There is audio but it's extremely fake It sounds like what we're hearing the speakers off that TV That's where all
we're hearing is in there Yeah Do we have Where is there speakers in here this is Tom Can you hear me is that that's a screen they can't They're having problems with
their um audio in the um Bada meeting room Tom Okay [Music] [Music] Oh wow You just waited I'm sorry
We did Can someone try to talk again yep Oh my god Testing Nothing [Music] Test one Test one Test one [Music] Can you hear me we can hear you John but
they can't hear you Okay It's the audio system in the hall itself Yeah they can hear in there They can't put it out here [Music] I feel
like Hey I love the red Thank you I love you too It's coming out of the TV but it's very quiet Every time you come in you smell like really good food and I'm just like "What did you cook?" I didn't because I have a husband Thank you for busting me
I don't cook I'm starving I was starving I was like I am not going to eat that He made um made roasted uh chicken thighs He's like silence isn't he broccoli
um with olive oil And then he I like beans Seasoned beans And he had uh roasted vegetables before which um squash and Brussels sprouts See I married an Italian man cuz I'm Irish and
we can't cook Well we can But I got back to just use it I don't like it So I'm very lucky But I'm like always comes in and I don't know what she's having for dinner It's delicious I'm sorry No it's like I didn't smell that way until I
walked in there It's just like you walked it No no I like it I'm not complete Okay I don't wait Oh no [Music]
It's hot here today Is it tense there now it's very tense Um but we're at the b center for cities So we have a gift so none of our funding is affected Um there is a hiring freeze but also does not affect us because we have a gift that is large So um but yeah I
work with multiple cities on multiple areas including finance procurement collaboration innovation Um so all connected Our cities are over
100,000 in population Um so it's kind of different They can hear us They can hear us Oh I don't care Yeah we can They can look this up on Google Like what did you think of my dinner i loved your dinner No I'm talking someone at home texting
So we can hear you talking about it Well tell you can text them back and say my neighbor here is jealous of all the smells Can move this Yes
Were you in finance before you retired you were a school teacher no School finance Okay We hate summer My son went there loved it So here you go Put your hump first Let me see if
there's a compliment She comes with cuz they come right here from Yeah I forgot to eat lunch today Something to do there No no no It's the sound You know how
every single week the sound starts and I say listen and then it just every week It's the first time you watch No Is it yeah I'm like a passion for
[Music] If you go into SharePoint it will be the um that's a neat level I think But if you don't go into documents just to home it will be one of the newest documents that
[Music] shows finance in the morning Thank you You're welcome [Music] Yeah a couple times
[Music] Can you show me the photo you took here right here If you think if you go to the home Yeah Yeah And docs Yeah Well we'll just go home again It will show up as one of the ones
and then you just had it draft This one Thanks [Music] She came out of the woods She just [Music]
he's our attorney Oh he's the John Okay Can they test again can someone test yep Testing one two three Are you hearing that from there i can't hear it Yeah makes sense
just make a big is there a way for them to put questions comments and chat I would ask Tom for votes So I need to be able to hear them [Music]
He can't put an answer in the chat for vote I doubt it I mean we don't have ADA compliance obviously for this situation Can't hurt [Music]
[Music] Chris conversation [Music] [Music]
Can we try one more time please yes testing One two three I guess I can kind of hear it So Try again Tom Gray can you try we'll get an echo Testing 1 2 3 Okay we're good Are you
getting it from me no it's from there But I get an echo if you have it on It's just coming from your eyes It's acceptable I I don't know why it's not All right Dave we can hear you
Okay Dave Pasios again uh Presidential Highway Jefferson formerly member of this uh commission and uh President Lunberg uh speaking to you this at the beginning of the meeting here reference to your
item 7A on your agenda this evening which is the uh reserve account request for transfer Um I'm I'm not speaking against the transfers per se itself I just caution the committee that this
account is strictly intended to cover emergencies and um part of the process when there's a need for additional funds for an item within a department is the first go-to
is available funds within line items within the department Once that is exhausted uh if there's a need to uh do an emergency repair or something to that effect that is a true emergency
then it's appropriate to come to the finance committee Um it should not be treated like a piggy bank that oh our line item is short or we have an unanticipated uh repair but we do have some money somewhere else in the budget in our
department that could cover it Uh I'm just bringing that up because uh overspending an appropriation and then coming to you folks for a transfer out of the reserve account to cover it
is totally inappropriate Uh I'll leave it at that And like I said this was not to speak against the transfer requested this evening Just a little bit of background on what the reserve account is for and how it should be disseminated
uh you still have a quarter left in the uh fiscal year Uh if you do have a true unexpected emergency or catastrophic event that's the only account you can get money out of uh without going to town meeting Thank you Thanks Dave All
right Any other public comment from the public all right Any public comment from the committee okay Um Chief are you here for that one article should I make you wait all night for
the Why don't we take that article now if I call you I don't want to wait So thank you Uh again the request for the reserve fund transfer is our vehicle maintenance line We've run into a significant repair on the primary ambulance Uh specifically the diesel
particulate filter is going bad Also possibly the exhaust gas recirculating valve This is probably going to be in the neighborhood of a 10 grand repair job I in vehicle maintenance I have probably $7,900 left for the year which will just about cover fuel for the year
Our vehicle maintenance line covers fuel normal wear and tear and usually one significant repair We've already had a couple of significant repairs as I've detailed out to you this year Uh to Mr Pers's point yeah in theory there's
money still in the expense lines We also have a whole bunch of other things that we also need to get done by the end of the year for that as well So again the vehicle maintenance is the concern I have control over other things in the budget that we can stay easily within
budget but an emergency repair like that is not something that we can plan for So yeah so the reserve account is there for un unanticipated expenses The reserve account has been significantly increased um over the last few years Um and I
think that's good practice Um it allows for almost a riskmanagement approach to not overly conservative budgeting in order to move you know mini slush funds all over the place So I'm in favor of this Um but I would open it up if
there's any questions from the board Um Chief how much um do you have a expense line for equipment repair or vehicle repair for what on your budget Yeah Or that addresses vehicle m maintenance or we
have lines for purchase of service uh purchase of parts and fuel And how much is that line usually I believe one is 15 one is 17 Okay And then we have fuel So this is like a more than a third of that
Correct So unless you overbudgeted that by vehicle maintenance is always a shot in the dark right we budget for what we think we can I've asked for increases I've asked for an increase again this year because of increases in parts costs
We handle a lot of it through DPW with their mechanic But this is something that's beyond him that we have to farm out So that would have to go over to Wiki's Towing and Lummen So So yeah So so you have 17 and 10 That's 27 And this one you said the total would be about
this is going to be at the top end 10 grand probably in the 8 to 10 grand range Don't this is one of those things I don't know until I get in there It's a guess you know a good strong estimate looking at it One of DPW's trucks is sitting over there with the same problem and yours is bigger Right And you do you
usually have extra money on those two line accounts no usually vehicle maintenance We're pretty close In fact if I've ever come whenever I've come before the finance committee about a reserve fund transfer it's always vehicle maintenance because we hit you know we just if we hit an unusual repair
you know one year was one of the pumps needed a $20,000 rebuild right so yeah And it doesn't in in another way it doesn't really make sense for you to always be budgeting you know an extra 40% every year when you're just you're looking at it once every 5 years You
need a little extra The general thought we've always done is cover fuel cover annual service maintenance and at least budget for one significant repair right this year's been bad Yeah sounds like it Thank you What's What's the planned
lifespan of that ambulance that ambulance uh with my lifespan will be 12 years Oh what is it it is It's a 19 So 6 year It'll be 6 years old in the fall It's at 71,000 When the new ambulance finally comes in this one will rotate to be the backup ambulance So it won't be
going out as much See you're going to you're going to have this around for a while Oh yeah Okay Yeah This is It's not going anywhere So it'll just rotate to be the the second ambulance out Any other questions i I believe I did send this to everyone um a while back So
the official transfer would be for $12,000 Um I would entertain a motion to reserve Um does it say in here how I should where I transfer it to oh it's here Okay So I'd entertain a motion to request a reserve fund
transfer of $12,000 to cover unanticipated overages in the fire department's vehicle maintenance budget I second that All right Any other discussion all right Roll call vote Tom Gray I uh Mike I Anna
I Tanya I Jean I And an I for myself Thank you Okay So next up on the agenda which I guess is back in the agenda Well fin you don't have a town manager or finance director report do
you okay Um would be uh public hearing So typically we do public hearing on the uh town manager's final budget but because of scheduling and the amount of time I takes to um officially put it in a paper
uh per our um I think charter Um we had to do it this week So what we're going to do is is do public hearing on the the articles Um so with that I would
entertain a motion to enter into public hearing So second so moved say so moved Oh so moved me Yes And now second All
right All those in favor roll call vote Tom Gray I Anna I Tanya I and I for myself All right So what we I think the way I'd like to run
this is um we'll have town manager um go through the warrant articles summarizing them because we we did last week Um and
then we can I guess I'll ask you guys We can either go through them all and then vote afterwards or vote as we go through them Um either way we got to vote you know on on each of the articles I think we should vote
experience Do you have an a suggestion i guess my suggestion would be to to vote as we go through them I agree Yes Um Okay So with that sounds like we have our audio working maybe Mr Chairman So good evening to you
to the finance committee I think we're are finally almost at the home stretch here So thanks for the perseverance through this season Um if you'd like me to just start article one is reports of committees Uh this is to accept the town report and we
will be hearing likely two oral reports One from the stormwater task force and one from the budget task force I'll pause for questions between each one if that's okay or um from the committee Yeah from the committee So what we tend to do on these is
um recommend um no financial impact Um so I would say on this one we should do no financial impact Now generally speaking it's sometimes easier for the minute taker if the same person makes the motion and the same person seconds
but we don't have to do it that way So if someone wants to be the motioner wait we we're not taking the minute taker are we what we're not the minute taker No but but yeah she needs to go through 34 articles and figure out who's Just tell
me what you do It's much easier than Right Do you want to make the motions okay I make a motion to approve our u make a motion that article one is no financial impact And then you want someone to second it All the same person every time We don't have to second it
Okay You will make the motion I will second it Okay If I agree Okay Yeah Which I will All right So the motion has been made for no financial impact Any other discussions all right Roll call vote Tom
I Mike I Anna I Tanya I Jean I I for myself Unanimous 60 Okay Article number two is a new article for this year It allows us to borrow in anticipation of revenue should there be a revenue uh shortfall for any reason Um
it's a fail safe article that would unlikely to be imp implemented Do you think there's a financial impact on this one there would be a financial impact if if we got into a situation where we need to exercise this article
Um I know the select board don't What was that they did the select board recommended this article of 50 Okay So in the um the
um the warrant it does show the select board's recommendation if they've made one Okay And they did recommend 50 Do you want to maybe lead this because usually you know those Okay So more Let me clarify There's no monetary
amount at this town meeting What this does is establish a mechanism that if throughout the fiscal year we run into a revenue shortfall for some reason where revenues are not coming in as expected and we're having a cash shortfall in order to pay our bills but we could
anticipate uh for example say we were short on revenues right before the motor vehicle excise taxes start to come in So we could um borrow in anticipation of that revenue So you don't know the dollar figure but it does it is a finance article So why don't I do it this way uh
I'll entertain a motion to recommend approval of this article Say so moved So moved And then I need a second I second Okay Um any further discussion no All right Uh roll call vote Tom I
Mike I Anna I Tanya I Jean I All right And then I for myself Okay The next article is similar to the uh prior article and this would authorize the town that um we could expend uh funds related chapter 90 funds
in anticipation of the reimbursement by the state of those same funds and the select board did recommend approval of this article Okay any discussion okay I would um entertain a motion to recommend approval of this
item So moved I second All right Any further discussion roll call vote Tom I Mike I Anna I Tanya I Jean I And an I for myself
Okay The next article is to set the spending limits on our various revolving funds Um those spending limits are outlined within the article Uh the select board did recommend approval of this article All right Any discussion or
questions all right I would entertain a motion to recommend approval of article 4 So moved Second All right Any additional discussion roll call vote Tom I Mike I
Tanya I Jean I And an I for myself Article five is to authorize uh the payment of expenditures from prior fiscal years There are none known at this time Uh the select board deferred to town
meeting Um all right So if there's none I would also say that we should recommend deferral Uh any questions all right I'd entertain a motion to recommend deferral on article 5 So moved and seconded
All right Roll call vote Tom I Mike Hi Anna I Tanya I Jean I And I for myself Article six is FY25 budget adjustments transfers within budget lines There are none known at this time The select board
has deferred Okay I just do want to note for everyone that the article numbers might change next week Um so just keep that in mind if you're taking notes and they try to do it so it expedites the
um okay so article six Um so I would entertain a motion to recommend deferral So moved I second All right Any additional questions or discussion all right Roll call vote Tom
Hi Mike Hi Anna I Tanya I Jean I and an I for myself Article 7 is closeouts from FY25 Um there is the school department unanticipated special education move in at 50,000 and the snow and ice uh
deficiency at 415,000 contained within the summary of this article is a notation that um these these are the the estimates at the time of print but the numbers may change um at town meeting They actually may be
lower at town meeting and accordingly uh because they may change the select board did vote to defer What's the do you think that's likely to be i think that um snow and ice is going to be closer to 400,000 Um and I believe that the school
department um at last discussion of this they were going to try to find ways to cover that 50,000 within their current budget in some manner Okay So based on that um that would be a pretty you know big change I would also recommend that we defer as everyone agreement Okay So
I'd entertain a motion to recommend deferral on uh article 7 So move second All right Any additional discussion all right Roll call vote Tom
I Mike Hi Hana I Tanya I Jean I I For myself Okay Article 8 is the FY26 capital program Uh there's a variety of projects uh totaling 1 point 1,225,000
uh dollars Um it was recommended by the select board and we have discussed previously some details about what each of those are Okay And then it shows the plan funding sources at the bottom Correct All right Is there any questions or
discussions on any of these okay We already covered before Yeah Yeah Discussion He says capital letter Which one which number 20 what what was
it again it was the uh the $50,000 for Is it number 20 okay Yeah she has I can't see it Thank you It's number 20 That was the road work issue um up in that uh upper section of the North Cemetery Opting to change that out if
this board is willing to expun those expend those funds The only actual plan that I am aware of that I know was presented is that electrical plan which provides better utilitarian uh utility type service you know to the entire
cemetery both of them you know So I think that's a better option And just so you know there's a $4,600 skirt being done that's already been uh allotted in the South Cemetery for the Veterans Area and that's where that electricity is going to go And that can all go in at the same time because that project's not
slated to start until May Wait but DPW did recommend this Yeah that's the uh yeah that was uh that was the concern is that DPW made a recommendation to put the road but uh if you listen to the cemetery commission
meeting the other day even though DPW says "Yeah we recommended it We have 80 graves We don't need to build out an area We're sell 10 graves a year." They made that clear Okay if you're selling 10 graves a year even if you did 20 graves a year you still have four years
to be able to get that all done right up there with a plan So what you're talking about is is that the DPW did confirm that it could be done in 3 years Uh but they're ready is what he said They're ready to do it now which they could do
it now Okay The problem is is that there's no notice of intent to conservation There's no notice of intent to uh Chrislair uh um sorry uh land use Chris So um they they really don't have a plan So I think it's a pressure issue
that get it done get it done get it done And the other thing is is that I know that there has been a a family in town who's been requesting to move a family member up into that area And there are some patronage emails to that that I've raised Just so you know that the cemetery commission I think is pushing
this forward for another patronage issue That's you know and I I have that evidence from public record information but that's not the primary issue okay that I'm looking at What I'm looking at is I'm looking at putting down roads in an area next to a wetland when there's
no notice of intent to conservation There's no notice of intent submitted by the DPW There's no uh there's no uh plot plan of how that's going to be set up The only thing that's done up there is a survey boundary line areas There's no
plan for anything else Where do the graves go how do they go john I think we understand Yeah So thank you Okay Thank you All right And do I have another hand of someone or All right Dave Yeah Thank you Mr Chair Dave Pas again
uh Jefferson New Hampshire Presidential Highway Um as everybody knows that uh the previous commenter has been hammering away at this for months now uh the DBW director
submitted these uh proposals as normal procedure for the capital planning process Um to my knowledge the electrical uh plan that's been referenced by the previous speaker was not brought forward
by the DPW director so it's not on the table Um and in the last couple of meetings that the DPW director has been talking about this expansion uh especially the cemetery commission
meeting uh a week or so ago his general comments were that you don't do this overnight So yes I do agree and I'm paraphrasing what he said You can it's on the tape Uh I Yes I do
agree we should start with the next phase which is exactly what the previous speaker said hasn't been done yet Uh it's because those steps have not been funded yet It's a step-by-step process just like any other uh project where you
have uh one or two engineering stages uh verification by uh appropriate boards and commissions uh and then you get the funding for the actual project uh expanding the cemetery area could be
upwards to 3 to 5 years out if I remember the DPW director saying uh for its completion So um this needs to stay intact as it's been presented Thank you Okay Thank you Dave All right So I'm not going to
entertain patronage issues and all that kind of stuff I do think um there's a process by which that could be dealt with if it if there was merits to it Um I will say that um the capital planning committee did rank this it is part of a
10-year plan A lot of those the issues of alerting neighbors and getting conservation and all that sort of is part of this this item So um there's also going to be a new cemetery
commission you know come that by the time this is in place that can you know change direction if they so choose or recommend changing directions I do trust the DPW director So my inclination would
be to to stick with the the items from the capital plan um and uh and just be cautious as we move forward if if that's the um any other comments and and just to add to what you're saying um the capital plans
started meeting last August and they met all throughout the fall and the project was vetted revetted and usually the DPW can So it's not just us it's there was a whole other process just as there is with the budget from the town manager
that comes before us and we are doing the final overview Um it would I I it would be a lot for us to say this project has not properly been vetted by the process Yeah I agree So I agree too And I'd also add to that although John I
do like the idea of lights in all of these areas um we don't have like a budget plan for it from DPW or something solid nor a contingency plan of like who's going to pay for the this electricity what are the actual uses and costs So I think that you should
continue to work on this because I think it's a good idea but I don't think that I can say yes to this and go out of the the town manager's um recommendations But keep working on it cuz I do think it's a great idea
Tom did you have something or No I just was agreeing that this has been vetted through the capital uh committee So I think we should um approve this Okay Any other
comments all right So what I'm hearing is that um the general consensus is to recommend approval of the article in its entirety Uh so I would entertain a motion to uh recommend approval So moved Second All right Any other
discussion roll call vote Tom Tom I I Mike I Anna I Tanya I Jean I and I for myself Okay The next article This one has changed since we last discussed um
authorization to fund special uh projects Following our discussion uh last week there was uh the crack seal and uh road repairs for the cemetery network I did have a discussion with the DPW director about the potential of
removing that and putting in the grant writing services in itstead Um and you see before you that grant writing services pilot proposal have been play have been placed at item B Um other than that this article remains the same Okay
Uh any discussion on any of that i know we discussed this last week Um it was a good recommendation by the public for that one Um I I just want to thank the town manager for taking the feedback and uh talking with the the PWA director and uh getting
to this space and hopefully um the project will see through next year through the process of the capital plan which is what we usually do So thank you I I agree with that sentiment And with that I would entertain a motion to
recommend approval So moved Second Any further discussion roll call vote Tom I Mike Hi Hana I Tanya I Jean I And an I for myself Okay
Article 10 is the FY26 omnibus budget 49,374,465 Um and that has not changed since the last presentation on the budget All right So this is the big one really right when it comes down to it um we got
some other big ones this year Um and other moving pieces that we have to weigh Um so with that are there any comments or questions or otherwise on this one um no Well the only thing I
think you know you came in what now is it officially two months tomorrow makes two months I'm not counting I'm not counting the hours Yeah No I just um one thing that you had mentioned earlier that uh I
think was in your first presentation that the budget's not ready is you know we'll get to the bottom to the bottom line there might be shifts in between and I think we need to continue having that conversation Our budget season is very short Um we just got a some
feedback about the school uh department budget um budget but I think you know there is still conversations that we need to have because these conversations if we don't have them now they're all going to happen in town meeting So we'll continue to have conversations with all
the departments uh budget and continue to explore and make sure we have a really good information really good story to tell meeting when it comes May 3rd Yes All right So thank you And um that's all I have Yeah And I would I
would um I think the sentiment is definitely out there that there is maybe a budget season but maybe there's a longer budget preseason Yes and we we have a lot of plans that need to be put So I I know I've been of that
mind entire time on the finance committee and uh we've not quite got there We live through COVID and and override and in this year but um I share that sentiment Are there any other comments or questions on this one
okay with that um I would perhaps or is people that are on Zoom supposed to raise your hands what's the pro yeah they'd raise their hand if Okay sorry And Tom can just speak up Okay Um with that I would um entertain a motion to
recommend approval of item 10 So moved Second All right Any additional comment roll call vote Tom I Mike I Anna I Tanya I Jean I And an I for myself
Okay Article 11 is the uh citizens petition for the proposition 2 and a half override in the amount of 2,99,337 All right So just so everyone is up to speed if you don't only watch town meetings all you know other boards
meetings all week and you have a life or something Um the current state on this is select board recommended to not they voted to not recommend approval of the article Uh they also voted to not put this on the ballot
Um I know there was discussions about whether this will be passed over or kept or even somehow removed from the ballot which is a tricky process for a citizen's petition Um with that um this may still be on the ballot when
we're there Um and I you know technically the the new select board if this were to pass could call a special election to um to do the second part of the the two
and a half override process of of um approving it at at ballot So um I think we should make a recommendation on this Um I also personally uh believe that I would not recommend it
without further details given to us Um perhaps even the chance of uh reducing the value I I know there was a long discussion last night at the school committee if you happen to watch that Um I think
um that did not move me to say that it is ready for for um for recommendation yet The school committee did say they would not put resources towards um detailing the budget any further Uh
which is probably a wise decision I would agree with that and they may send us a memo with um how what um cuts would be restored and which fees would be um not imposed which are kind
of the some of the mechanisms that they're they're using to um balance or to reduce you know what they say is the hit on the um on on their budget Mr Chairman go ahead Tom Yeah the school
committee they were talking about during the budget process they learned things I wasn't really wasn't clear to me what they've learned But what I was what I was getting from that was that they would make changes They
wouldn't spend the money uh as they they would originally have spent it um that that's what I got from those conversations that they were having So I myself would not recommend this only because I don't think we have enough
information to know if this is going to be spent properly and it's the right amount or any so I would I would strongly support a uh a denying of uh of this Any other I agree with Tom on that
whole full wholeheartedly Yeah And then and there was a a member of the school committee that said you know we have not vetted this budget as we have vetted the time manager budget which you know when you have a $25 million budget that you're responsible
to oversee and spend it you should be vetting everything even if you're not asking for another $2 million but they have vetted for um for what they seen and you know and that's the budget process Every year you do this budget process and you scrutinize everything
and you know and they found a lot of things and and you know and if you're going to sign up to be in a board that oversees a budget of 25 millions I don't care how many hours it takes That's the process of overseeing a budget of that
size So for their own words they have not vetted that budget and in fact they haven't voted to say this is the we they didn't take a vote on that budget They only took a vote on the uh town manager
vote So I I don't see how we could responsibly um following our mandate by the charter which is school committee approves the budget sends a a memo actually explaining the shifts there have been
and how and everything else and then we approve it We they haven't approved this budget So and just um I think everyone's probably seen it I did send um forwarded the email that um Brian Leighton and the chair of the school committee sent to me
following the meeting Um so that's in your email if if you if you've had a chance to read it which you know basically says what we just summarized To be fair to the school committee they
they did say at the meeting yesterday that they were spending a lot of time trying to get to a budget without an override The uh additional funds were coming up here and there uh with the help of the town manager So they were really focused on that and really didn't
spend much uh of their efforts on um on the full budget So um I I think this goes back to the discussion about getting software or tools that will help
them do budget analysis better to be able to run scenarios and various things without the kind of herculeaning effort that they had to do uh this year and and from what I could gather last year Yeah So that is a recommendation out of
the um the task force that there is some budgeting software I don't know what that is but it's not I don't think it's munis I think it's something that boards and committees can use Clear it is I don't know what it is but I can't get into well I don't know what it is I'm
pretty clear Okay Um but it would allow for you know projections 5-year projections trends analysis all sorts of financial analysis that one's own personal financial analyst would do for you we should be doing for the town Uh
so that was kind of a I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment Um and I think if if there is a recommendation uh that I do get behind it that is definitely one So I thought we were going to get it this year but then I think it was kind of killed somewhere along the way Yeah it's not necessarily
dead And also piggybacking didn't they add a finance person to their team this year that they did not have last year director or someone so I hope that this issue is not going to continue with a
person in place and the right tools to track Yeah In the year before they didn't have a finance director So Hence here we are So yeah Well last year was even tougher uh from the perspective of six budgets
and multiolor spreadsheets and analysis Um I don't want to tangent off too much but I mean given the size of this budget in comparison to our overall budget I mean shouldn't when we're presented a budget for the current year for next
year I mean should we not have like at least another year projection beyond that i mean in reality it's it you know when you start to project out what that budget can actually do and explode to it can harm the town pretty quickly Quick
Yeah Very quick Yeah So um there's going to be two remaining me members of the school committee and they're not going to be able to speak for the committee the next committee that stands up But I am talking with Tony who's I would say
likely to be the um the chairman next year Um it's probably either him or Laura I would not see that someone new would come in as chairman Um but you know maybe maybe um and there's already talk of like should we set up some subcommittees between us
and them We have talked we have some meetings between us and schools and uh select board and town manager and superintendent um we need to continue those So um there's just been a lot of change We had Heather at the beginning of the of the the fiscal year then
Carter and now Jen on our side And hopefully there's some stability And hopefully we get a a superintendent um and you know a team on their side and the town side and and us to have some stability Hopefully we're all still here
next year so that we're we're there's uh there's history on our side So so with that um if there's no other comments I would entertain a motion to recommend disapproval of article 11 So moved Second Any further
discussion all right Roll call vote Tom I Mike Hi Anna I Tanya I Jean I and I for myself Okay The next article is the transfer of $500,000 in certified free cash to the
Lunberg public schools for FY26 This is expressly conditioned Uh I thought we were going to handle the condition in the motion but right on the face of the article that the transfer only occurs if the override should fail
Okay So um select board recommended approval on this Um I will say that also in the discussion yesterday was the beginnings of discussions with the schools as to how this money would be um
spent Um so I would recommend that we defer until we see the the presentation on the recommended um spend of this We all understand that the school in the end can spend their one line item any
which way they do right um but I think it's bad It would be a bad optics if they presented one thing and did something else So I do not think that they would do that Um but I do think it's at town meeting we should hear the way that they would spend this It can be
before too right it certainly can be Um but it wouldn't change what's printed in a book as as a recommendation from us And also the the point the goal of the public hearing is the one time that the public can watch and see the deliberate
deliberation about these articles and then when they go into town meeting they're they're well informed if we get that in between now and then we can study but we should have that deliberation at town meeting just for the purpose of meeting charter goals Okay And question do we ask other
departments where we transfer sums of money what they're spending it on are we required to see a line item if we're doing transfers within the fiscal year yes Okay But the select board doesn't No the select the select word uh the transfer uh signatory authority lies
with the town manager Okay Okay So the so there's a couple different the within the fiscal year um town manager as far as I know correct if I'm wrong about the charter bylaws She has the discretion to make changes of budget lines within the
department Anything outside the department actually has a process defined by the charter or the bylaws I don't know which one Um the the school committee uh it is that person They can make changes any changes to budget lines to
to their uh budget However by charter they need to present a budget and and explain like it's a little bit of a you know it's messy like town government's messy on purpose so that there is enough time for you know checks and balances
liking or not unlike federal government which yeah I don't want to get involved on federal government I'm just making a comment about I I will say on this article this violates what we consider as best practice Correct From a financial finance committee standpoint
this is not good practice Right And and if I just may add because of the action of this article your financial policy relative to free cash on subsequent articles is also violated Yeah I I do
kind of see this as moving money into a stabilization fund and then taking it from a stabilization fund in one slow motion Um and we do have stabilization funds for reasons I think and perhaps one can say this is a year where you
know you know we are a little instable unstable um instability yes I am unstable um so okay but with that um any further discussion my only concern with it all is it's this one time injection right
but it's an injection to a known budget that has a deficiency that is most likely going to be deficient of the same manner next year Is it planned to another $500,000 no So next year this
has been made very clear that this is a one-time stop gap measure so that we can have the time for collaboration and discussion on a future override um for FY27 I think that you're absolutely
right that um the impact will compound um that it's that the $500,000 infusion is has a greater impact next year Right so um this very clearly
uh this is one time only just to get us to the point where we can start having these conversations about an an override and your your town manager we call it the town manager version of the school board or the school budget that has that $500,000
built into it No no no So the uh this $500,000 lives outside of the omnibus budget Okay So this is free cash and sometimes it takes getting free cash explained about 20 times but free cash
is the result of underspending and um conservative estimating on revenues So that's how free cash is gener bottom lines and how they all come together but okay thank you Yeah I think that we would likely to hear there would
be an argument made that this number is added to the school bottom line going into FY27 and I would reject that premise Yeah Yeah Okay Um and one just a tiny
comment on that They do have a to a budget um an operating budget that matches the town manager budget So what they going to use these um this money for since they haven't voted i'm going
to assume it's likely going to be to you know put back some expense line perhaps fun I don't know because they haven't voted and that's what it would have been good to have ad now That's why we're deferring But it could be you know they're like they're buying more textbook Yeah No I I I I understand now
what she's what she's getting at is just like an add or two so they can do it go to salary and then and if it goes to salary that becomes a compounded problem Y you have your hands up Yeah Just very quickly just uh for anybody that didn't
see the uh school committee meeting last night uh they started vetting a list of replacements or reinstatement items uh that was recommended by the uh administrative team of the uh all the schools So they're putting together a
list in anticipation of if that passes they have started a list as to what they will reinstate and they have not by any means finalized that list My memory was that it was staff Mhm But
I think it was PE No Yeah it was prioritized but uh the school committee had really didn't weigh in except for a couple of items as you just mentioned uh asking for explanation I think they
would still have their view to reorganize that prioritization if they get the money That's my interpretation Yeah there was discussions and I think it is just discussions at this point of non-staff um items Um but but again I I
I don't want to spend a lot of time because I think that's a pretty preliminary discussion at this point Um I do think that it would be wise for school committee to come up with something to present at town meeting or even before that Um I'm sure they will
Um but in the meantime I think we should uh just go with a deferral on this All right So with that I would entertain a motion to recommend defer on item 12 So moved Second All right Any additional
conversation uh roll call vote Tom I Mike Hi Anna I Tanya I Jean Hi And an I for myself Okay The next article is two adjustments to the salary administrative plan Uh one
is upgrading the grade of the DPW director by one grade and the other is to add the position of communications and IT manager um and that that be assigned to a grade 12 It's not anticipated that that addition is going to add any headcount Rather it's an
expansion of a current position into a new title Um this article was ultimately uh oh it was uh the the select board decided to wait until their their meeting uh next Tuesday to make a recommendation on this But this article
did generate some uh bit of discussion on why why DPW director and not other people who might not be at the um at a compensation rate that's competitive Uh it's because to respond to that that
kind of question it's because um the case of the DPW director is that he is extremely below market Um there are other people that we need to do a whole scale uh classification compensation study and get that through the process
We've had two failed attempts so far Uh but we need to look at that more holistically Um there is prior precedent to kind of addressing people who are extremely out of grade It just happened uh I think last May in fact with the
outreach position Um but that's just to kind of comment on why only this one if there's other people who are out of market It probably does not bring the DPW director perhaps as far into market and competitive as needed but it is a
step in the right direction And if we were to go further I think that you'd have uh an issue of uh an issue between other employees uh who are not benefiting from the classification and compensation study that we need to
undertake How did you get to this information how did you how did you was this a a survey that was this uh someone that you hired to to do this or No So uh this is a
salary survey Uh we I'm sorry I think he was asking the question Well yeah that was it I just How did you come up with this it was it was a salary survey and you realized that the DPW was vastly underpaid and and you want to increase his grade by
one to help Well I think that Yeah I think that there had been arguments made for a number of years that he was not graded correctly and not competitively Um and it was an out we we did a salary survey not just on this position we did a salary survey on all of the positions
Um but this was an outlier Okay Okay So is there a chance this is changing next week or they just wanted No I No I just was responding to kind of the commentary that is out there Um I do
not see this changing next week in unless I think there was some kind of suggestion that we go further with it and that is not my recommendation because of the impact on the other SAP employees I have a question and the communications IT manager and I think you said it but I
missed it like um is this the an added position that was taken off that needs to be filled or the outsource position like what is this position so uh when we so the position of the network
administrator that we're not filling um there has been an individual who is same replacement headcount um who serves currently as an intermediary between the IT vendor and manages the IT vendor and all of the IT contracts In addition to
that um her position was expanded with the use of ARPA funds Um and she um in addition to managing the IT manages all the communications for the town So the website the social postings that is currently um she's not of she's a
part-time individual Um so this would make her full-time at 32 hours Obviously I'm talking about a she we would need to post the job description Um and anybody I we think we're going to post it internally so anybody else that's interested in the position of course I have to cover myself uh would be able to
apply Um but it is not intended to add any headcount So this is an existing person and just expanding the job to full-time Correct And upgrading the responsibilities I I have a more of a
general I'm trying I I haven't studied the SAP so forgive me if you know more than that than I on this one Uh doesn't the town have any do you have any direct reports that are not part of the SAP yes you do Okay Um is there a classification
where some positions are not part of the SAP like I think the fire chief or the not the fire chief police chief So they are there are positions that are contained within the SAP that have an employment contract that brings them outside the SAP but they are they appear
so the chiefs appear on the SAP but they have separate employment contracts and who defines who can have a contract and not have a contract Good question actually So um prior to fall town uh excuse me special town meeting that occurs in the fall um I know we're
sensitive in Lunenburgg about that Um so um prior to the special town meeting it was statutory who could have an employment contract or not Okay Um but that by a bylaw change that happened at at the special town meeting employment
contracts can be applied now more broadly So um but typically you'll see typically uh police chief fire chief finance director Um those folks typically have an employment contract Sometimes a DPW
director would have an employment contract Um sometimes uh other department heads would have an employment contract Like um some key positions that require more you know negotiation because Okay Okay And and
that's something you can change at your discretion like right now he's on he's with following the SAP but next time around can you change him from so no I do not have unilateral authority to uh enter into an employment contract with an employee Uh that would need to be
approved by the select board Okay Gotcha All right Thank you Thank you But no more than I am Three months Good job Monday Did you have a question well if you're not done with the presentation part we're only halfway Okay
On this article you mean Oh Oh then no Ronda 181 Reservoir Road Now obviously as a member of the public I don't have the articles in front of me You guys have the articles in front of you Um so on th this particular one and probably
the next one because I think the next one is also related to the SAP um I think sometimes in the details well maybe you guys have the details what is the financial impact that's what I like
to know of each of these changes that I think you'd need to know that in order to make a decision almost as a finance committee So it kind of like is like my pet peeve when I don't get maybe you've got it and
you know something I don't know but I like to know financial impact please Thank you Uh John B 162 Highland Street um I'm the DPW director So um grossly underpaid like disgustingly grossly
underpaid That guy is providing a hell of a service of his own loss uh in the community So that being said um I've been a member uh of a union where we did a lot of collective bargaining and I've
also been a business owner and had over 22 employees that I maintained When handling salaries on anybody okay there's no even across the board Let's pay everybody evenly and
make everybody happy Let's take the money and put it into the positions I know when I had to downsize at any point in time I basically jumped those jobs onto other people and there's nothing
wrong with that and I know it could be a little bit of an overload However okay when you have people grossly underpaid some people are going to be very very dissatisfied with your decision about not giving them their good okay to
somebody else Which means that there are other people in town that are just going to have to say "Hey this guy needs this money because it's grossly underpaid." So when you take them you take them from the top and you work your way down Okay you take DPW director then you go to
mechanics then you go whichever way it works in whichever division of of the structure of offices okay that you have whether it's town you know office staff or whatever The people up here need to be taken care of because the people up here are managing the people down here
You're not going to get somebody down here to be able to manage Otherwise you would already be doing that But you do these committees and you go outside and you get people and you put in separate contracts for these people for a specific reason because you know they're hard to find So let's hold on to the
structure of if you have to take it away from people that are down below to be able to make sure that the people that are at the levels that are egregiously out of place that are in a you know a more managerial higher position like I said under contract those people should
come first to be paid to be caught up before everybody else And I think that that just should be considered and that's not to say that everybody doesn't do a good job It's just that that's just business and it's never personal Thank you I the the town manager mentioned
that uh she was going to uh be working on uh on uh reviewing all the jobs Uh is that correct in the future i need to get funding for it first So I'll see you at special town meeting about that But um
no we we do need to um at least attempt to have a successful uh professionally completed compensation and classification plan Um I heard pretty clearly from employees um following my present this is more
about the next article but I heard pretty clearly when I had stated a 2.5% cola Um there was some upset with that from the SAP employees Um and during that discussion it was emphasized that they really are seeking that uh more
neutral uh third-party review of our classification and compensation So I'm hoping that we can get that funded at the special um and that we can start that process and you know we've done it already twice so some of the data is going to be very easy for us to compile
and put together I think there's been some lessons that have been learned uh through working with the last vendor that we can adjust how that procurement rolls out and be very specific about what it is that we're looking for um as our final product and hopefully that'll help make the difference Um to address
Miss Lissio's questions um the impact related to the DPW director is approximately uh $5 an hour which works out to be a little over $10,000 Um the impact um the impact the next financial
impact it's a little bit more of a question mark because it would need to be a posted new position and there would need to be an offer letter Um but the increase of hours um and what we're expecting it's a little bit we're expect anticipating I can't be firm on this because there's not somebody in that
position but a little bit south of $10,000 Um the the funding for both of those is inside the salary reserve line So if they are not if this article is not successful at town meeting then it
doesn't alter the underlying budget All right Um and I'll answer the I can answer the next question too about the financial impact of the SAP now or for the next article For the next article Yeah Or we can either way Let's
vote and then we don't Mr Mr Chair I've got one question about this article Okay go ahead Thank you Pass again Jefferson uh Presidential Highway Um our past town manager when we made a change
like this from part-time to full-time insisted that she always budgeted for the highest possible insurance package for any employee going to full-time Uh I'm just wondering what the new town manager's
practices when this occurs Uh no I'm not I'm not planning on the highest possible um insurance opt-in here in this case But in
general in general I think that um if you're in if you are creating a new position it is generally a good practice to anticipate that somebody who is going to be hired is going to opt to
take a family plan Just as a quick follow I was going to say unless there's something about the position that like you're generally going to be hiring people that are under the age of 26 for that position In that case I would say no you wouldn't be budgeting for that family plan Right The
gist of the question was that when we were given impact numbers it included a full family package for insurance So a $10,000 increase in salary equated usually to about a $35,000 total budgetary increase
requirement because of budgeting to the highest insurance Uh can you do you feel you're going to be able to absorb that it it's only one one body increase in the uh insurance costs
yes Okay Thank you You're welcome All right Were there any other I noticed someone else joined Um any other questions from the All right Any questions from the
um committ committee i hope Bill's happy and he'll stay here for a long time That's all Okay Me too Um I would say that I am in agreement with this and as such I would uh entertain a motion to recommend approval
of article 13 So moved Seconded All right Uh any additional discussion roll call vote Tom I U Mike Hi Anna I Tanya I Jean I All right And I for myself
All right And it maybe shameless plug again that we need a personnel committee I'm actually just on that point I'm having uh the there's an employee working group that was set up by the uh interim town manager and I'm having them
um there's a trend uh growing trend that communities are moving away from a personnel committee that their utility is no longer served due to changes in the law Um and so I have asked these group these folks who would be directly impacted either positively or negatively by having a personnel committee to do
research and make recommendations to the select board on the future of a personnel committee So stay tuned Okay Um okay So the next article is article 14 which adjusts the pay plan for the SAP employees Um I originally
had proposed a 2.5% here um there that is now at 3% The total financial impact of this article is approximately $43,000 That changes depend on who comes and goes within the organization but that's the estimated impact is $43,000 So 3% 3%
And that's in line with um other so so I I I'm not going to So there are union employees and there are non-un employees And as much as we try to treat everybody the same there is a difference And so I think that there there was a um
a big adjustment in the clerical union in the last negotiations and so they have bigger bumps and um I and so I wouldn't say they have a 5.5% increase this year So there's a higher dollar increase but this is where we use the
same results of that salary survey We saw that some positions were at market some positions were over some positions were lower It supports the general um need for the classification compensation plan And I think if we do a really large
adjustment without looking at those positions town meeting voters are going to feel as though we have addressed this but it doesn't really solve the problem of the inherent unfairness within the classification compensation plan Okay And just for fun just cuz I like doing
that So if this was a 3% increase it means that we have about $1.4 million in staff that are under the SAP just cuz I don't know I'd have to do the math
It's a 3% increase and it's well I I don't have all of the SAP uh impact 43,000 Okay So it's about that Um in terms of nuggets do you know your overall staff cost no I don't have that
data No that's fine I was just trying to get a number Yeah I can do that Typically if you have um school and town it's typically a little over 50% in staff costs
Yeah I mean the that's interesting Yeah The uh the schools is more than that but Yeah Okay Thank you Right Any additional questions or comments on this one all right Um I'd entertain a um
motion to recommend approval on item 14 So moved Second All right Roll call vote Tom I Mike I Anna I Tanya I Jean I And I for myself
Okay The next article article 15 is holiday pay for call firefighters Um this would allow folks um who are on call who cover a holiday to be paid at time and a half Um this is to incentivize the call folks to actually
come in and work on a holiday so that our career folks um can enjoy the holiday with their families Um there is the the fire chief estimated that on the high end that this would have approximately a $6,000
impact Do you know how he estimated that he looked at um holiday shifts that would potentially fall on Sundays Gota Thank you There's probably a lot of fires on holidays too Turkey turkey fire
All [Music] right Any questions on this one okay Um this seems reasonable So I would entertain a motion to recommend approval So moved Second All right Um roll call
vote Tom I Mike Hi Rana Hi Tanya Hi Jean Hi and I for myself Okay The next two articles um are both to appropriate free cash to the stabilization fund the general purpose
stabilization fund as well as the special purpose stabilization fund Um there the planned motion um under this article is to postpone indefinitely or to pass over these two articles at town meeting Uh these are the two articles
that are being directly impacted by the free cash transfer Um but the thought of keeping them on here why I propose that these remain on the town meeting warrant is to make it very transparent what the exchange was that allowed the $500,000
free cash transfer All right So you're already throwing curve balls at us huh oh I gave you two for one Um so we have never um voted to take no action The select board had a
recommendation to take no action I think that that's reasonable for us to do as well And they um they recommended no action because there's no dollar There's no dollar amount and it's because the we're going to pass over the articles at
town meetings So if we don't it's because there is a financial impact and then we should give an opinion We can't put more money in you So so there could be a floor motion potentially if these are on here Could there be a floor motion to
increased from zero to to you have to be creative in how you do it but to take free cash from one article save it for this article and make the transfer here Right It takes you very talented I'm not talking All
right If anyone plans to do that please pre-coordinate that action so you're not sitting there writing it down like we've done in the past Okay So um we'll keep our attorney busy too I think you know Mr Chairman if I can just say
this these are the two that directly violate the free cash policies right no I understand So if for some reason the 500k were not approved we would have free cash that otherwise would have gone into these Correct The
plan would be to do that at um special town meeting Correct Okay Rhonda Rhonda Lithia 181 Reser Road I just have a question on this one I think it's probably a good idea even you know since
we're mentioning that it's not a good financial policy does it I think the public would like to know um does it have any actual negative impact on any of our standings as far as
bonds bond rating or anything like that so that's a very good question So um in making the decision whether or not we could do this um I did look at those policies and we are over in our general
purpose stabilization fund We're over just over what the recommended baseline amount would be Um so I do feel that it's safe for us to do this one time only I think um if we were there's no requirement that you're um transferring
funds into your stabilization account if your stabilization reserves are healthy right but and we are just over that threshold of health But if our stabilization account were to dip and we were to not be making future transfers there could be a negative impact I don't
think that there's probably any impact whatsoever of not making the transfer to the special purpose stabilization funds which are not required Yeah One thing just going forward I I do think as we nailed down a 10-year capital plan we probably should have in
mind what that special purpose stabilization fund should be at as we've built it up Yeah it made sense to put in 250k or whatever a year but there's probably a limit to what we should have Um all right So any other
questions okay So we're going to do a twofer I I would entertain a motion that we recommend taking no actions on articles 17 and 16 So moved Second
All right Um roll call vote Tom I Mike Hi Anna I Tanya I Jean I All right I for myself 16 and 17 Oh 17 is special purpose stabilization fund
So 16 is stabilization fund and 17 is is um special purpose stabilization Okay The next article is article 18 and this this we are following directly our financial policies and we should not be avoiding doing this this year because it
would not be a good measure Um and that's to transfer free cash in the amount of 20 $222,500 to our oped trust fund um other post employee benefits Our um our fund is presently
2.69% funded which is why I'm saying that this is not it would not be recommended to forgo this transfer All right Does everyone understand this one ope what OP is Okay Good Um any questions on this
it's always an interesting one because it's like putting 10 bucks in for a $50 million mansion but but we do it Um okay So this one's pretty routine
Um I would um entertain a motion to recommend approval on article 18 So moved Second All right Um roll call vote Tom I Mike I Anna I Tanya I Jean I and
an I for myself So it passes 6 nothing Okay The next article is to establish a compensated absences reserve fund Uh this would be a fund that would allow uh for the uh
unbudgeted payment and payments that could not be covered uh for employees when they separate from the community uh for their acred vacation leave And if they have a contract that allows them to be paid for any sick time on the books their sick time Okay And then can you
talk about article 20 and then article 20 funds the fund if so established in the amount of $10,000 with the transfer from certified free cash Now you gave me a curveball Mr Chairman Hey All right Um any discussions on this i
think we talked about this already Okay I would um the only thing that I I have is a little bit you know how we got spoken about our chart of accounts they're like very long very old and blah blah I hear you but like unless you have a
plan to make this account much bigger that has a lot of movement it just feels another account that we're adding there so so we are adding another account but I think that the real the real complaint about the chart of accounts is that
there's a lot of subbudget lines within lines within lines where this is just one fund Um and it just gives us a place that if something happens and we are too far away from town meeting or you know
we don't need to go to salary uh the uh reserve fund um it just gives us a place to go No I I understand it's just you know another town manager comes and everything It's just I can see and then we have these hund you know 100 items
long list of funds that we have and and we don't know what they were I mean we do of those like the library was the one that they had a the trust funds the trust funds it's like can we simplify it or find a way to properly document some of these things It's just one more thing
to manage And I don't know where you're planning this Like it's $10,000 likely available from somewhere that we might have been able But hey you want to manage it go for it Like that's it I wouldn't do it Are you going to be my dissenting
vote i'm not going to delay you I'm just I'll warn you If you're anticipating another account that you're now managing for $10,000 on a almost $50 million budget go for it I like the granularity of the costing just to see where every
single penny goes And if there's a 100 strings then there's 100 But it's just my opinion and you do have to manage it So okay Um any other discussion okay So I would entertain a
motion to approve recommend approval of articles 19 and 20 Um so moved Second Any further discussion all right Roll call vote Tom
I Um Mike Hi Connor Hi Tanya Hi Hi All right Nine Okay Um the next four articles all deal with sewer Uh the first one is a transfer of
$1,545 to the OPED sewer trust fund Okay So the next three next 21 22 and 23 are pretty standard transfers of money between enterprise funds right
yes [Music] Okay So I wouldn't mind again taking these three and as one vote So 21 is Do you want to just Yeah sure So 21 is the $1,545 transfer to the OPED sewer trust
fund uh that is for the portion of employees uh oped liability who are compensated or pay part of their compensation is through uh the sewer revenues uh or sewer enterprise The next
article article 22 is the FY26 sewer enterprise This is to actually fund the operations Um the total budget is 1,886,152 $5022 Uh1,583 900 100
1,583,91745 will be transferred from estimated revenues and then uh retained earnings in the amount of $32,232.77 And then uh the next article is to make a transfer um of
$19,14.40 into the sewer inflow and infiltration also known as INI stabilization fund Um this is to mitigate uh water that's getting into the sewer system that is not wastewater Um and then article 24 is a sewer
reserve capacity stabilization fund and that's to transfer $5,133.15 into that stabilization fund Okay Are there any comments related to those four articles or questions okay Is is there anyone that would vote
differently on any one of the four articles it's it's basically saying we agree with the sewer department's budget in my opinion Okay So I would entertain a motion to recommend approvals on articles 21 22 23
and 24 So moved Second All right Roll call vote Tom I Mike Hi Anna I Tanya I Jean I And I for myself
Okay The next article um is for our solid waste A portion of our solid waste program Uh the recycling portion of the program as the committee is aware is handled within the operating budget And this is the uh trash portion of the solid waste program which is funded u
through the pay as you throw uh bag program And this uh the the motion under this article is to transfer or to appropriate $500,000 from those pay as you throw revenues um to operate the solid waste enterprise fund program for
FY26 How much is in that enterprise do you know this is anticipated revenues from the pay as you throw All right A bag cost going to go up Um maybe as part of the override discussion
that we're going to be having Don't say that word to me Well in the discussion we're certainly having a discussion about costs and and I think you got to change it to cost Just say over So um cuz we should all live that this is a this is definitely an area
that I would expect will be discussed about the future of this program and for for yellow bags Yes So some communities like my former one uh is eliminating their entire program and moving to
private hauler to for the same costs reasons the the market falling out for recycling has changed this I think changed the numbers on this for a lot of communities Okay so that's a preview of coming
attractions In the meantime um any other questions on the solid waste okay I would entertain a motion to recommend approval of article 25 So moved Second All right roll call vote
Tom I Mike Hi Anna Hi Tanya I Jean Hi All right And I for myself Okay Article 26 is the water enterprise fund and is a transfer of $45,000 from the water enterprise revenues to operate
the water enterprise fund for FY26 Okay Straightforward article Any questions comments all right I would entertain a motion to recommend approval of article 26
So moved Second Uh roll call vote Tom I Mike Hi Anna I Tanya I Jean I And I for myself Okay The next article is to fund uh the PEG program uh or PAC program um and is
an appropriation from their revenues of $226,946.75 I just want to remind folks from that presentation that they are into their reserves this year um they so this is an area that's going to need some some closer looks as we move forward to be able to continue to
support it there those revenues or those um savings won't last forever um especially as the revenues continue to decrease Um and then there's also a transfer here for the indigraph cost or employee cost that washes out So it
there's a wash here but of $31,271.94 Okay Um pretty straightforward No more article Any questions um Ron Delesia 181 Reservoir Road would you um when they presented here they
they at that time their budget was to spend like $212 more than what they had or something I wonder if that's have have we got it it was 30,000 Yeah
Yeah I Okay I didn't hear that They're into their reserves in at approximately 30,000 So that must have the warrant It is in the summary So we're kind of advantage
Probably should print it for you Do do you have anything or you just had the question Rhonda um well I just I just wanted to know exactly what the number is that they're using
from the reserve Yeah Yes And you said Chris you have it on on the summary Okay Oh just happens to be Just 32,2 very similar number actually
Okay All right Any other um questions or comments from anyone on this Um the only comment that I have is um they are using the if the next article uh if the article for the town hall build passes they planning to use that to fet um I
think between now and next budget season which it just happens all at once You know it'd be good to do ask them what's you know how they're envisioning their operations being sustained in future years So I don't know who who take the
note on that Okay Ju just from uh my understanding is they're hoping the state will pass a bill that will start charging the streaming services Mhm Uh and some of the I think I can't remember
it was 80 10 and 10 or some something the money would go uh to help fund their their projects This would be statewide cuz that's what's happening They're moving from cable to streaming So they need to go after the streaming
services to make up for the shortfall from the cable Um okay Um any other questions i guess this is something we need to keep an eye on Absolutely the service could I was actually having a conversation with the director uh earlier today and you know
if things don't change we'll be needing to really start addressing this in 3 to 5 years Mhm Yeah there's actually a bit of an inequity associated with the charging on this right so if you pay for cable you pay into this but you can just
get it through Facebook and that's correct So and you know and along with the caution um you know one other request last last week which I prompted was you know to ask the school department to give us a budget that's
encompassing of everything so we can see that their full operations and here we are seeing a a a town department that is not living within their means in yeah it's only 30,000 but this is the kind of thing that worries in terms of general liability like are we going to shut
unpack because all of a sudden so it's a you know it's a inching into the you know being a much bigger liability us relying on the services as a town so I will say that I I've always found this group in my 5 years that I've been able
to question them I wasn't I was away this year I guess but um you know that Steve Walker and and Joe they do a really good job I think of explaining their budget understanding it keeping up with legislation um advocating for legislature you know etc So oh
definitely Um okay So with that I would entertain a motion to recommend approval of article 27 So moved Second All right Roll call vote Tom I Mike Anna I Tanya I Jean I
and myself I Okay Article 28 is awful long and it is the flood plane map update right no financial impact right other than printing the there'd be financial impact to
individuals individual residents if this were not approved So we do not usually Right Right Any questions on [Music] this okay Um I would recommend I would
entertain a motion to um state no financial impact associated with it So move second All right Um roll call vote Tom I Mike Hi Anna I Tanya I Jean Hi And
an I for myself Okay Uh next up is accessory dwelling unit bylaw update article 29 Um this is to bring our bylaw into compliance with uh the state law that was recently
passed and there's likely no direct financial impact here either Okay Any questions on this all right Um I would entertain a motion to find no financial impact on article 29 So moved Second
All right Uh roll call vote Tom I Mike I Anna Hi Tanya I Jean I and an I for myself The next two articles article 30 and 31 are um relative to uh tax exemptions Uh
you'll see a note here from town council uh that he is not clear on what the goal of these articles are Um and he need he's working with uh the chair of the board of assessors to make sure that we're capturing what the intent was here
Um but as I understand there was a recent um a recent amendment I believe at the special town meeting to these different exemption clauses and there was an inadvertent action that they by m
when that amendment was made that we dropped out the asset and income limits I believe So uh we're expanding those back up The asset and income limits for these two but um I think further questions about the intent here would really need to go to
the assessors Okay So I don't think there's a financial impact there Well as it as it relates to the overlay Yeah Because how are these exemptions
funded through the um the assessor's overlay account So So it gets someone gets an exemption and it draws from from the overlay which event which in total it reduces our our revenue in taxes
essentially Yes Okay Well usable it's still in the right So it's we can there's been some changes in state law that you can now draw off the overlay and it doesn't have to be se Oh good Thank you the overlay account If you notice on our books when we calculate the tax rate
there's the allowance for the overlay That's the allowance for the being exemptions So that's essentially our cap for the year to able to draw down various exceptions veterans what have you Um so that's already part of our tax
rate instead of our part of our expense calculation for the year So as the exemptions come down any um leftover overlay rolls into the next year is available if needed So like the tax assessment issue they had to use I think it was over a million dollars in
exemptions they had to do 1.4 Yeah So I'm just giving you an example but yeah but um that's what the account so it does draw from your revenue uh because that account that that allowance is already accounted
deducted from the revenue at the beginning So it does draw from the revenue but we have already calculated that it okay but it is a top line not a bottom line it's it's it's outside the omnimous bus it's outside the omnimous budget but for example when we were
needing to restore things because the assessors had reduced the amount that they believe they need in that overlay we got increased capacity within the operating budget So it does they do have an impact on one another So the higher
the overlay amount if the less revenue to fund operations Correct Yeah So it it is an expense that it's not truly an expense because the way we get accounted for is on the top line from Yeah Yep net
effect of lost revenue right it Yeah it is an Yeah Yeah Okay Um you said that the um um the assess assessors are still working with council on working out this
language So this is the language that you see here is not final I'm hoping that they can have something more final Um otherwise if allowed it would have to be a floor amendment um as as printed that be amended on the floor So this may
be one of those that you do want to defer until town meeting um for these next two Can you comment on why select board recommended approval so they heard they heard the presentation from the
assessors earlier on in the season And um the goal here is that we're helping folks who um otherwise with the lower thresholds wouldn't qualify for exemptions to help them you know this only applies to certain individuals so
that we're helping them um be able to maintain some level of affordability within the community Okay Yeah I I mean I would be inclined to recommend approval on this However I would say that I would like to probably see the the final language and and um and the
amounts are small but since this is the finance committee and we are supposed to give the um so the exemptions you know the asset level would decrease from 40 to 60,000 exemption would amount would be from 185
to 332 I understand there's so um whoever qualifies to this would have to fall under that category of asset and they'll get a maximum of $332 and I think this will increase with cola on the other one
Um is it the def uh tax except um um it doesn't talk about Oh it does 18 No it does Oh no the other one um not talk about the exemption amount
[Music] Oh so this one it just talks about the the increase but we don't know I can ask the assessors for that So there is an financial impact but we don't know what it is and you know and you don't know
how many people there are too That's the other piece that you won't know that right you won't know You can there can be an estimate but you don't know how many people are going to qualify and apply Well I think they can give us they've been talking about um historical data Well historical and circuit breaker
like they know how many people currently qualify in the circuit breaker So it would be even a smaller subsection of that Mhm So it would be uh limited but it's not explicit what the financial impact could be with current
problems which I think that's a fair number a question to have Yeah Okay So did you have a question uh John Bo 162 Highland Street Maybe Miss Town Manager can answer this for me but um I remember talking with Linda
with regard to the exemptions that people you know hardship exemptions and so on so forth that uh she has I'm pretty sure has unfeted discretion to decide who gets an exemption and what It's not like looted in that if you make this income or you have this situation
that it's basically all under her total discretion So she's the one who's looking at how much money is available to decide on whether or not it's feasible to be able to offer an exemption And I think um I had read that um at one point in time but I I I'd like
to see if there was any clarity or understanding with that cuz I did ask Linda about that and I do remember reading that that it was her discretion So I think first I think that this is not gerine to either of these warrant articles right so um but that said uh
the board of assessors is approving those Um the these things I've never seen this process because it occurs in executive session um because of the materials that folks are looking at but it's it's not um the the principal
assessor on her own doing this Okay I agree I agree with that This is it's in Go to the mic That's what I Yeah that's Sorry John Bo 162 That's what I was trying to figure out is that I agree it's done in executive session because these are personal issues but I think that it's discretionary on whatever
committee or board that is to make that decision based on evidence presented from that particular person So I'm not saying is she has like you know oh we don't have enough money I'm going to tell you no cuz then she's going to come to you and say we have to tell this person yes can we use money do you know and that's what I'm saying is I know in
executive session that it was discretionary So yeah Thank you All right So I just I think because the language could change my recommendation would be to defer Yeah And because we don't have a
stated financial impact and they can use their current I think there's an add-on to current exemptions so they can use their pool of recipients to give us a financial impact an estimated financial impact at today's time
Well I mean they're changing the qualifying amount though right so they would only know what it was Well you can do by percentage right depend on depend on who applied for it So it could change
But my memory was it was going to be maybe one or two people and it wasn't I mean it wasn't big numbers I don't remember exactly what it was but I think we can defer and then listen to get the better wording and then hear what they
have to say and then go to that town meeting Okay All right So I think that's the case for both article 30 and 31 Do we agree yes Okay So I had to entertain a motion to recommend deferral on or to defer our recommendation on article 30
and 31 So moved Second All right Um roll call vote Tom I Mike I Anna I Tanya I Jean I and an I for myself
Okay The next article is a citizens pet petition Uh the petitioner is here Mr Chairman Um I don't really have any comments on this article So you have read it though I have read it Is there any financial impact it
seems that it's just there's a financial impact not in dollars but in changing our financial processes We would change financial processes under number four
Um you which article I have the uh I don't have the letter Is this related to the cemetery commission or the APDC okay What are you what are you looking at the the original one Okay There's a lot have a lot of files
Okay Do you want to state something on it maybe quickly i I think I'm going to recommend no financial impact Yeah Uh John Bo 162 Highland Street So the section that um she's talking about that has um any uh
financial impact It's not a cost but it's a process So in that process I've taken the information that I've heard from this board and from other boards with regard to uh things being done I will give an example that happened tonight Uh there was a $50,000 capital
plan item that was presented for the cemetery tonight uh by the DPW Okay and they have $96,000 in their sale of lots fund and they allotted to take out of the omnibus budget warrant article The 10,000 annually that they generally
would as a cemetery commission and the response to that was to collect the interest for the next year on the money that's in that well that's $1,800 I mean when there's $50,000 you have for a project and you have 50,000 you should spend it but you shouldn't spend it
unless you have a plan So in that particular section that I was explaining um it says that if you go down it would say um just bear with me Oh you have it in front of me I'm not
even looking at her sheet Look how small that is Okay This is for blind people She's got better eyesight than me This is like font Okay So uh it says here it says uh 4B um it says the
cemetery commission shall be permitted to make rules and regulations uh change and requiring the expense of any money including expenses derived from the following funds but not limited to the seller lots fund perpetual care fund family trust fund gift donation and
any all monies allocated or procured including the granting of refunds only by a submission of a warrant article which shall be presented with a comprehensive collaborative written plan for its specified use which includes a presentation of the director of the department of public works cemetery
superintendent and the town manager and then presented at the annual town meeting for a vote of the inhabitants of the town of Lunenburgg subject to the approval of the warrant article by the town manager two-thirds majority vote of finance and the select board for the use of that money for projects so that there
is a plan because as we've seen over the last four years there hasn't been a plan and that's a problem so That's why uh that particular section does have financial impact where it basically directs okay the um the cemetery
commission to not utilize money willy-nilly and I not uh at the very end of that you'll notice uh my presentation you'll see that I put a spreadsheet in there where they spent $5500 for a grass study that was you have a cemetery superintendent he knows how many hours
it takes to cut the grass get the numbers from him Uh there were uh uh costs for foam boards for another $850 to make presentations to have photographs done uh to to know fruition Uh there was an additional license
bought recently We already have a license but we bought another license cuz they want a license instead of asking for a license I listed a number of different things of waste And this presenter had told me this is Yeah And this is what this article basically says So when I when they say and the select
board last night had said that this has no financial impact they're mistaken It does have a financial impact It has financial control If we were a cemetery mutual benefit cemetery all the citizens in town including plot owners would have a vote on what money gets spent and how
money gets spent This is what this does This gives the people and the inhabitants of the town to say we agree without having issues like what we had earlier with the capital plan when they have $96,000 but they want to use tax money even though they have sale of lot
money That was the that that was the reason behind this particular section of this article Okay So thank you Yep Thank you So um thank you So generally speaking financial impact to us is it means it costs money or not
The processes and everything else associated with a you know a charter or warrant or a bylaw or anything like that that just puts controls in place is not something we've typically um uh determined to have a financial
impact on Um so with that I I would just recommend on 32 that we find no financial impact Um and with that I would entertain a motion to find no financial impact on moved Second All right
Um roll call vote Tom I Mike I Anna I Tanya I Dean I and an I for myself Okay The next article article 33 is a debt exclusion for Marshall Park Um I
think that you had a presentation uh from the proponents Um but this is a $13.8 million debt exclusion that um must pass both at town meeting and at the ballot box Um and I'm going to give a lot of credit to your chair uh who did
a lot of work on debt analysis And when I opened it I was so pleased that he did [Laughter] it But so thank you Mr Chairman Um but I don't know if you wanted to share with
the committee your analysis Just debtwise I think I sent you all a link to the debt analysis that um I did Um we are generally within the the 11% on um excluded debt with this um we approached
the 11% we are almost nowhere near on the 4% which is the uh regular debt um and I didn't have the the how regular debt was decreasing based on current um so I wasn't able to really calculate the
where we were 14% but I added on my tab I had like if you look at my on the tab that I created and I put my name on so people I had added that Okay All right So ultimately I think that needs to be your schedule but you
can I can steal it Thank you so much Mr Chairman I will say that the one the one thing in there is that that took into account no proposition 2 and a half overrides in the future which would thus just reduce the percentage And um the
increase that I did put in there was 3.73% which accounted for the normal levy limit of 2 1.5% increase uh plus uh new growth and I based that on this year's numbers which was 3.73 I think
Yeah it was Yeah And yeah so I did add the art current I do have a different spreadsheet that we have to share I think it doesn't sound like you have previous time manage spreadsheet Um and
so for 3 years we do we go 1.3 one year we go 1.3% above the excluded debt levy of 11% but we do not pass the overall capacity of 14% We
always stay under 11 and a half I I don't know that I can validate the former town manager spreadsheet though because I did take the what we got from the the bond council or the our current number Yeah our our most current numbers were where Yeah I'll I'll send it and
then you can verify Um so I think that I'm just confirming what you're saying and and we stay above that 11% but not the total We never cross the 14% And I think another point here is that um
there this analysis was done with the assumption that there would be this full project funded through the debt exclusion and that there was going to be no grant funding associated with this Right so um we did not account for grants right so if you know there was a
substantial grant awarded for this project if a future grant anywhere near that size um is awarded that will also bring those those numbers down Also something else that I think you took this in uh in consideration Mr was that
um I think we take the le we we take the that the uh from for the entire time on the first year I just used the spreads that was in the from bond council Okay Okay So you did
what is it called debt bond council Bond council Bond council Okay And I used the 18year and the 20 year Okay So yeah So you actually typed everything versus doing one year Right Yeah London's good So you did take it into consideration that Yeah there may be in there too but
for sure Um no it just you know it's and adding new debt is always a funny thing with timing because you know you got to have enough capacity to add a significant debt Like if you're trying to do a big project it's not any time because you got to wait and you you have
enough mature debt And a couple years ago we did have I think it was the uh uh it was the police station and the library matured and that opened that capacity So now we are doing you know if
both projects are funded we are going back to that level to the limit that we have and and then you know probably within another so we already have paid 10 years close to 10 years by the time this matures to the high
school So 10 years from now will be 20 years of the high school will be by that time the primary is going to be done So for the town to do these big projects it has to be the town has to be strategic about adding this that at the right time
and this one seems to be the right time Yeah In terms of not passing and all everything else Yeah So the other thing that I just kind of eyeballed in there is that around the time that you might think about another new school we would probably have debt capacity Mhm because
you know as a ratio the um you know the percentage is off of a tax levy that continues to increase Um and it's incredible how high that levy gets because of compound the compounding rates right mhm Um the numbers that are
there Rhonda is itching Yes I can I can hear Um Ronda Lucia 181 Reservoir Road Now what in the projections that you're talking about did you also
include the school is almost um ready to announce the findings for what's needed for Turkey Hill to keep it going for the next however long Is is a borrowing
project for that also considered so again that could be regular debt I think Um I maybe I'm speaking for town manager but I don't know the extent of that It could be regular debt It could be capital items as well Um
so so no I don't have anything laid in there cuz I have no idea how much that might be Okay But there is regular debt left capacity even with both of these Yeah We're we have like $50,000 of of debt Yeah I actually think
we've gotten into an unhealthy situation as a municipality right i think we think like ourselves where you know next year I pay off my mortgage right and that's a good thing But I think for towns you know they're not going to retire anytime
soon right there will be a 400th Lunberg celebration So we need to continuously use debt as a funding mechanism for um our larger larger projects Um and I think we've just retired so much and
kind of put that into the operating budget that we've gotten into an unhealthy position relative to you know regular debt using regular debt Does that make sense it does make sense
Um but I just had one other thing Um I think it was I think at parks they let us know what they thought the impact on each you know the average homeowner if
we could just get that info Yeah we we did calculate that So I I well I think it's in my report Um um 50 something Um it was less than 50 cents 40
something cents So just one um did I not put it in there i thought I had it in there Where is it says XX I thought I had number though That's your version That's XX The one
you sent back to Okay Um I know we saw F40 somewhere I think it might have been in the um the bond council 55 cents 55 cents on the dollar Okay So
55 cents on the dollar on the on the,000 on the,000 Sorry Yeah Um the average single family household of has a valuation of 504,937 which is an increase of $278 So if you know your valuation this
you know this year it's 55 and then municipal building just cuz I have it up the next article is is 57 cents um per So the the combined two of them
are um about a$110 a dollar 12 that's without that would be without any grants So grants could could reduce that number Let's double check before we print it The oh this is not going to be printed Okay But the the 55 and 57 if
you're wondering why the higher dollar project is only a few cents It's the longer term of the borrowing Right Um I actually thought it was a little less I thought it was 47 cents and I thought the impact was going to be um
$231 or that might have been before getting the final answer from bond company Oh we received something else that I have in Okay that's we received Yeah Project So number was it in the past few days oh
come That's part of the combined projections So there were other projections that came after the fact and there's two articles for Marshall Park So there's two there's two totals as well So there's phase one and then the total project So
right then so the 55 I think it was that's the worst case scenario but I can go back and take another look Yeah because I think they are So if you could do me a favor you and Jen circle back with the chair of the parks commission
and making sure that she's has a because I I think she's been talking and they're planning for a uh public um next week next week and we just want to be saying the same number and I don't think she's saying that number whatever it is the
decision I just think let's make sure we all talk in the same and I do hear what you're saying yes there are total of 18 different projections it seems like I I get I'm not disagreeing or saying it's wrong thank you
um [Music] uh Dave yeah Chris I blanked when you were talking about the um the impact on the percentage of exempted borrowing and Anna was talking about it When you say
we're bumping up right against the 11% and just slightly over one or two years was that both exempted borrowing proposals or just Marshall Park that was the two of them combined
Okay that's all I need You don't have to explain any further I missed that part of it Thank you The two combined Yep Okay So I do have a question for you Um I know there's talk of potentially a um
floor amendment floor amendment to go to just the first phase Mhm But this does require the um the ballot in the vote the at at town election Right Do we have language associated with those right So
because um because the election warrant needs to be set and printed before we know the outcome of uh town meeting and what what whether there is a for motion put forward or not We are uh for the
election war anticipating that either of those two scenarios could come forward And essentially the way that the voting will work um is that it's a essentially like a pyramid choice So if you were to
vote at the election on the election warrant for the $13 million project that also includes a vote in the affirmative for the lower project Okay But if you vote only for the lower project that would not be a yes vote for the $13
million project Um that's very confusing It's and this and unless there's a special election there's no way to avoid this with the planned for amendment possibility Anyone can make an amendment on the floor other
for a nonplanned amount or anything So can can the likelihood of that on a large borrowing being successful at town meeting as opposed to the proponents profering an amendment on town meeting floor it does change the dynamics a bit
there with the likelihood of success Can the um can the ballot be up to an amount so actually the so the the ballot does not for a debt exclusion does not even need to include the amount What it does
need to do is describe though the projects So if we don't include the amount then people are going to be even more confused because they have to read and say okay this one has these bathroom facilities and doesn't have this or
because it's a description It says you know three pickle ball courts or what and basketball courts and then the next artic the next option has a different description It is confusing with a planned So um so I'm going to ask you to
circle back with the uh the chair of the the parks commission because I know they have an upcoming meeting or we had a discussion Was it yesterday that the chair and the vice chair of the parks commission and I met um amongst other
things we did discuss this optional the the way that this is going to appear and that it there's going to have to be a fair amount of education for voters about what their vote means at not so much at town meeting I think town meeting is more straightforward but at the
ballot I never seen a ballot that way so um I I do think that there can there really can't be floor amendments It has to be aligned to it on this one But um the 18-year amortization of 3 the 13
735 says a tax rate of of approximately 46 cents I'm just looking at the bond council one I think I think what you grabbed was the 15-year amortization which was 52
So I think I might have looked at the shorter term because I think at the time there's um uh the parks had to just provide justification for the longer term borrowing So I think okay I grabbed the the worst case scenario okay number
I think what we're we are going we would go with the 18year though right on this So let me take a look I can I can circle back to you Okay I would like the answer Yep Because I I'll get it for you tomorrow Put out the report tonight Yep
Okay I'll get it tonight Yep I think there's a little hesitation just on the 18-year with the useful life of some of the equipment that can be in there We've used that one as a stand since the 1970s as it appears before
that over 3 years Um okay Was there any other questions or comments associated with this one okay Um I I do want to make um recommendations on these two articles um even if there's questions that will be
answered in our in our report So I I think it's either 46 or 52 and that just depends on if it's 18 years or 15 years Um I did do my analysis based on 18 years Um all right
So anything else on this in terms of uh questions or comment before we vote um no Okay So I would entertain a motion to recommend approval on article 33 So
moved Second Okay Any further discussion okay Roll call vote Tom I Mike Hi Anna I Tanya Hi Jean Hi And an I for myself And I know you said discussion a long
time ago but uh just as a comment on this article because I heard like this is a a project that the town has been working and has invested money for the past five to six years and um you know
financially speaking this is the the mature time the appropriate time to take on a larger to do a larger project that the town the residents want to So now is the right time financially to do that even when we think about a
future school based on when can that be planned So and that's holds true for the next uh project as well Okay So the next one is municipal
building um which is um updating this building turning it into a meeting house Uh this is a historical uh registered building Um I think it's on most of our um graphics that we use in the town It
is the face of Lunberg maybe Um and then to add on to Ritter building and to then update Ritter building um with municipal government primarily going into Ritter
as well as the superintendent a few of um the school and the ACE program Um Michael Ray had given a good presentation to both um the select board as well as the finance committee and
this was also one that um has been going on for a few years It did um initially start out as the TC Pacios that was proven to be not really viable um when the numbers came in and this project um
you know there's a lot of comments about it and all that but um you know I I do think it's important as a town that we do give our employees and our public um you know buildings that they can work out of and and that sort of thing So
that that are ADA compliant um and all those those sorts of items So um can I just add a couple of quick quick quick things well the additional uh thing was that there will be more parking um over on School Street I can't remember the
exact number but there'll be much more parking uh for both uh for the Ritter building And um of the money that's being spent the vast majority is going to be spent on the Ritter building The what we call town hall now the building
that you're in right now it's it's 1.7 million I I I don't have it in front of me but it's it's not the biggest chunk of of money It's most of it's going to be spent on the renovation and the expansion of the river go
Thank you Tom And Tom has you know we thank you as our representative on to that committee for for several years now Um Tom certainly has has all the answers Now we do have this I don't make them up
We do have this in the um currently at least in our report as being 21.4 million to 22.3 million via excludable debt I did ask Michael Ray for if he had a figure um and he did not
um get back to me yet Um and I know I did watch the select board at least for this portion of the meeting and um he still owes a summary associated with it Um but with that said I I think you know we've been talking about the big five
which are not elephants and rhinoceroses and they are our buildings for quite some time Um we did demolish one of them There's four left that need to be dealt with in one way or another Um I think it's time to personally it's time to move forward with Um and we have the
borrowing now and like I said it it does align I think with uh schools in the future to get all of our buildings to where they they should be I think Mr Chairman one thing that you know really excites me in thinking about this this possibility
um is that we are having a lot of conversations about increasing efficiencies between town and school operations and the notion of having the town manager and superintendent under one roof I think will really help to
allow that to happen more seamlessly Um and and in addition you know these pro these buildings they are aging and uh I think if not now when and I'll also say that I I am going to fully support this
article but the comments that I made in the past regarding the use of the space I still do want the um I mean I'm all for everybody being comfortable having offices ADA compliance all of that but
using the space in more of a community way Um so that residents can also enjoy all of the things that we're going to be doing here And I think we did that with Marshall Park Um we opened it up to many possibilities And I think we should do it to these new buildings as well So not
saying we don't deserve offices and all that I fully am going to support this but just put some thought into the other spaces the open spaces that are in the buildings for community use and resident resident use There was a lot of input from staff from
users of the building um to get not only the square foot necessary but also um some kind of way to make the the buildings run smoother Um there is um like with
anything if we build this in 20 years from now I I would guess that the building is going to be used differently because the world changes and what you need now So uh even that was was styled how do we make sure that this this
building can be you know be good for the next 20 or so years Did we ever get an operating budget for this new building we did not I don't But I don't think they're there yet Uh because of the
level of design that has been Um like I know for Marshall they have it but that's at a 60 or 80% design package I just noticed as town we're really good at building buildings and then not keeping them up
Um I mean it's we constantly talk about a lot of the buildings around here with deferred maintenance not you know and everything and then you know we're now we're talking about adding so many square feet We got to heat that We got to we got to put electricity to that Um
you know it's going to add a lot to the overall operating budget of the town I mean you're adding it's not a huge amount of square footage but it is square footage um near I mean custodians you know people so I think the new space
is about 8,000 uh square ft I know what you're saying like I actually a huge yeah Rhonda since you know the exact maybe Tom Tom do you do you know the total we we haven't um we haven't got that yet it was it's not part of the
level we're at yet but that's something that um that is uh going to be part of the ongoing process uh we do we are looking at um the solar panels to offset some costs uh in the parking area Um and
and so and the numbers that that are given kind of like with the Marshall Park are not including any kind of uh you know uh money that we think we can get for um grants and things like that
So this is uh this is assuming nothing like that cuz we wanted to have a high we wanted to have the worst case scenario and there's a big um contingency put in there Um but there's also unknowns We don't uh we we haven't
done the kind of ground checking around later to see if there's you know something that's going to cost a lot of money cuz we're digging a we're digging a basement if there's a problem We don't think there will be Um but um you know
there anytime you're doing renovations there's unknowns so we we tried to build in as much as we could I I will say as it relates to that two things One the town did um two years ago maybe put in the facilities director Right So we
recognize that need and now there's someone dedicated to that Um I think the facility director primarily is fixing stuff because you know things are just really in bad shape Um but the other thing is if you take it from a capital planning perspective there are a lot of
items on the 10-year plan related to the the remaining four big five buildings in town Um and at some point we're going to h have to actually start funding those Um so there is there's maybe some gives and
takes and a little bit more complexity than just an efficiency level of what we have now that's not efficient and costly as opposed to a newer system that will be more efficient and the use of the green energy right going forward So there I think that's going to be a
balance honestly Yeah Yeah one other thing that I'll mention on on the operating cost because I think that's a good good thought is not doing anything cost a lot of money not just on operational but also on not useful life
of the building So I'll use theater as an example because I think our operational cost to just for that building to exist for the past 12 years because that's when it was made not a school is probably I mean I don't have it but it's probably between 80 Oh yeah
Yeah 60 to $80,000 a year where 2/3 to 3/4 of the building is sitting empty and and we've been doing that for 12 years because we have taken no action and meanwhile the building has
degraded now to the point that something that was used could be used 12 years ago no longer can be used So the no action cost is much greater on the operational end That's a little different saying no
action on an existing building versus no action versus not building a new building I mean it's like you know and I'm not I'm not sitting here saying we shouldn't do this project I'm just saying that it seems there's some decent
operating and continuous budget costs that we have not looked at for this I mean we're scrapping right now to to to fund our school and you know the other multiple other departments within this
in this uh town that want to expand their operations right the fire chief has asked for how many years now he wants that fourth shift you know and so let's look at everything that we need to be doing like these great new
buildings wonderful you know it's going to benefit everybody but that's going to add to our bottom line and cost every year as well And we haven't looked at that operational or constru or the that operational okay um operational cost um I think we're
speculating on operational cost now and I think there's some ups and downs and maybe we can I I don't know what we can do relative to that so so no that probably that wouldn't come until later in the project and would take to get to those types of
quantifications takes a lot more of the design and engineering costs that would be funded through This this is part of the project So we've we've gotten all that we can get with the current funding and if you go into ashray I mean there's basic square
footage to kilowatt hours per year for electricity right and it gives you a range and that's going to that's going to throw a stone into the water That's going to give us an idea I I would imagine that the chair would have potentially based on his background um some back some knowledge of what the
operating costs may be that he could provide You don't me the chair no the chair of the municipal building design committee I will do this I I will um pose that question to Michael Ray I think we asked it when he was here He certainly wants
this to move forward um and will um probably um come up with a story Tom are you meeting as a committee between now and we're meeting on Monday i just got the uh agenda Uh when I was reading your
emails I got I got Mr Jeffy's emails Okay So maybe you can um kind of bring that up at at the um municipal design committee meeting and then um I will I will independently uh reach out you know to Michael Ray with with that as well Um it
is we're all invited to the meeting cuz we have it is the most trans we do it online and it's we have people half the people there are talking are not members of the committee which is good All right I I do want to write Dave's
hands been up for a while Um so Dave yep Just very briefly um I through you to anybody on the Zoom meeting can you tell me and the taxpayers that will listen to this
meeting uh tape that this number is going to give them the building that they've shown occupied uh and ready to be used uh you know they started out in the 15 to $18 million range It's now up to 21
to 22 $23 million range Uh I need to understand that uh Tom did mention a contingency I'm not sure what that percentage is but normally on projects like this your 5 to 10% contingency is
25% Okay thank you That's a great contingency the way things have been going Um but I I think it's going to be important for the taxpayers to know that this is going to be the number or this is going to be the number with an
additional $500,000 spent to bring it to schematic design Uh or what because if if they approve this and then next year they're told "Well we need another million dollars to get the final plans and
schematic design and start construction," then they're going to feel like they were duped Uh that's my only comment I'm not funding this so that will be my last comment on this item Thank you One question I would have on this maybe that I don't know if Dave said
this but it just made me think of it this comes furnished like this is with all the I was actually just literally thinking of the office furnishings with that question and I don't know the answer of whether you know we're not going to build a new building and bring over our
broken that in the corner My recollection was it it there was going to be it would be furnished I I I think I I I I can't I remember them talking about what kind of
things what kind of tabletops and things like that So this is just it wasn't something that I was focused on Uh but um I'll bring that up at the meeting to to double check but I I I I don't quote me on that although I just said it on this being I said it on a Zoom meeting
that's being televised So uh but I uh I believe it is uh except for pack which is their responsibility to furnish that part Yep Okay But I'll double check on Monday
Rhonda did you have a question no Okay Did you get everything you wanted you were you had a you were pouncing Rhonda Lysia 181 Resboro Road Um no I just along with what one of the members
was saying you know the state is requiring us to have heat pumps in this new building So like we do live in Unatil's um monopoly here
So when I hear things like that and then I look around and I see even on our so-called new buildings um you know it's going to have a few elevators and high school middle school I think it
was like they had to pay $30,000 this past year to just fix the elevator And that's I think less than 10 years old So I think we're living in fantasy land if
we think that new buildings don't have pretty sizable costs That's all And to go on to what you're saying with the heat pumps a lot of people don't realize but you know you're in New England when we run the air conditioning I mean we
run it two two or three months a year So your compressors are running 2 or 3 months a year you that same compressor is what runs your heat pump right and now you hammer it roughly four times as much as you do just in air conditioning
All right so your your rooftop unit that used to last 20 25 years is 11 12 year cycle now So your overall maintenance when it comes to that type of thing is is considerably higher Um you know there there's just there's
just a lot with building the newer buildings and all of the newer building codes that we deal with that are it's it's actually quite the detriment to building long longevity And uh again you know I don't think in the scheme of
things the operation of an 8,000 foot building is going to make or break the project by any means It's just something that would be nice to know up front just so we have that Yeah No I I think that's a very fair thing And I I do remember when the middle high school was being built this question came up and it was
just assumed that operations would be um smaller you know cheaper and they had some pretty complex systems in there that really did drive the operational costs up So I don't know if it's an apples to apples from the schools to to this building but it is definitely
something that would need to be um you know projected and and thought through and you do want to maintain a new building um at a different level than than whatever the and there needs to be good speakers
So just real quick um in the early 90s I was the assistant chief engineer for Drera Management Company and uh I was also a mechanic for Olympia York Development So these are two uh 40story high-rise um buildings Um and I am
actually a licensed HVAC technician So um and I'm also certified in electrical but not skilled in that department But when it comes to cost estimating I can tell you um building exterior structures out of glass and aluminum there's a
programming out there called RS Means So RS means has a uh cost program that you can put in all the factors including put in all the money and it'll do its own evaluation And if somebody wants to do
that that should be the capital plans direction is let's get this done in this data Whoever is developing the project and have them put all that information in the data and we can come up with that So I have heat pumps I spent $1,000 a
month this year Okay With heat pumps So last year I spent 600 It's doubled itself So this year So I'm just saying is uh Mr Rup has you know has hit it on the head It's going to be calculated in there But when you get a building up and
running 25% isn't going to be enough to keep it going if it's needed Okay if it's 22 million I'm going to tell you right now add 3.5 million to that just to get it up and running and keep it stable for 3 years That's a good cost
estimate to look at Thank you Thank you All right Any other comments questions with both Marshall Park and this what is the combined tax implication yeah so it's um we just determined I just put it in
the report Um I just got to find it again Uh 46 per thousand for Marshall Park And then um 57 right is what you told me
57 So 90 a dollar basically a dollar Dollar$ dollar3 What's the current rate it's like 14 something I think isn't it 14% 14 14 per thousand Oh yes
1430 Yeah 14 and change I mean that changes based on valuation but right when the values go up the rate goes down It's always increasing by 2 and a half% Okay All right With that I would
entertain a mo a motion to recommend approval of 34 So moved Second All right Roll call vote Uh Tom I Mike Hi Anna I Tanya Hi Jean No
And an I for myself So we finally got to someone not not in the unanimous Well that's good No I No it's just because I've talked to a lot of people in this town and they No Yeah No I I I like that we're
not zero every time Where's Jay when we need him yeah I don't know Jay last minute said he was unavailable tonight Um so all right with that close the public hearing Yes I would entertain a motion
to close public hearing So moved Second All right All those in favor tom I Mike I Anna I Tanya I Jean I And an I for myself All right Thank you for all that showed up to um public hearing and made
their voices heard Thank you for everyone um that came prepared for the the briefing tonight All right So the next thing on our agenda will be [Music]
um I I I framed it as a workshop So we sent out I sent out a draft of or a link to the draft of the um annual town report Um
uh Tanya did make it um better format formatted today So in that same drive there's now one that's called updated Lunberg Finance Committee annual report So I would recommend that we work
off of that Um and then if there's comments um I guess the way we'll we'll have to do it is to just have everyone pull it up and we can go paragraph by paragraph Um can I can I can we have the restroom
okay Can we have three minutes of recess just before start a new ask you got to buy drinks I think though Don't you okay Thank God we voted for the uh the uh the Ritter uh the building Uh it's going to be a new bathroom in there too and much
more private Yeah So you won't hear the flushing anymore Did every everyone sees where that where that is no I don't see anything Okay Okay So it's in um the budget folder
Where from here so go to documents All right And then um budget budget budget material budget material FY26 and then um annual report and then there's the
updated Is that in there updated It should have been saved by me Yeah you're in there now Okay So I can see five of us in here So you're looking at the updated one Is that correct the updated one Yeah So
um this is why I kind of wanted two weeks to pull this together but we're on one week Um but uh but that's where we are We're going to reformat this so that
it's same font same spacing all that stuff Can you do that it looks like it's Well there's some added things but like some of the things are not the same font Are you in um the web version or the desktop
version uh of Word oh desktop probably Okay Cuz when you're in the web browser everything looks funky Does it look funky to you like doesn't the operations look bigger than school department and borrowing looks bigger than it's all
jumbly See I don't see that I mean it's all the right information It's great Just Okay we'll we'll format Okay Although I don't know if you've seen our town report Sometimes it's just scanned
PDFs of No I can't Don't tell me I can't hear it You do not have desktop publishing You don't have any staff right desktop publishing Desktop publishing Yeah Is that like an
old program publisher no we have people in my company that are desktop publishing to put out when we put out proposals We have graphics engineers that create graphics for us
Chris Ruth has a drone [Music] right lost It's getting hot in here No Those heat pumps are working Yeah they work great when it's 50° out Okay so Anna do you have the latest one
open um no I was I was not I'm done Okay so it's in that um same folder but now it's called updated Lunberg Finance Yes All right you're in Okay so there's two ways we can do
this Just if everything is is somewhat trivial in nature we can just update it on the fly here If there's anything we want to um what I would recommend by the end of tonight is we either approve it as it's written here today or we approve
it with me having authorization to make final edits um in line with the um the spirit of our discussions Okay Okay So let's take kind of the let's just go through it So the first paragraph on May
3rd are there any comments associated with that i don't know what this is What is this oh okay That's just where people are Okay Then then I listen Those are us Those little sticks like life a game of
life Those sticks on the car Okay Okay Then the next um five um bullets hit on articles Um Jen is going to have to update them to the final article number for us or or I'll
work with you if you need to Um just based on how the um article um the final order of them Okay Anything on those to me those were like the five critical things if if people were to come to town meeting those are
the ones that are not just kind of run-of-the-mill in my opinion Um I I think on the what's described as article K Yeah Um my suggestion is now enhancements to
Marshall Park It the parks have been using re we've read it Oh my god Station um and in construction of the master plan or something along those lines All right Do you want to type it in right
now uh okay I will do that [Music] Um I'm very wordy because I'm my original language is Portuguese So you
can do uh you can change whatever you want Looks like there just a random ass step that was in there Do we have track changes on so the version that you're working off
currently does not include the couple of changes that came from the finance director and I So yeah So I would welcome you to jump in Okay Just tell us where those would go You are part of this team Okay You will get the praise in the and the
Okay I'm going to say something All right Anything else on the five did you have something in the five bullets okay Um there's a paragraph after that The first three articles Anything on that
um yes I think Ritter I'm sorry but I think Ritter Memorial and Article L is spelled incorrectly Well double T right yep Okay Okay Not to be that guy but I just No be that guy You were that guy in college
so we weren't we weren't bringing that stuff up Oh you were smart Okay Um he was smart You were smart He was wicked [Applause] smart Okay All right Anything else in
that first section the first three articles and Okay All right Town revenue projections Yes So um the net state aid um is 10,6,73
Okay hold on You're way too fast 10 6,000 Yep 739 10,0006 Correct 739 Okay And then I would just suggest the change from state representatives to state legislature so
that we make sure we're being clear that we're including Senator Cronin in this um state legislators Yeah I need to see how I can spell which I can't Fledous stators slers Okay
Um so one thing that when I was reading uh let me just see state comes from because you change I hadn't made a copy Where is state aid on that yeah man I wish we could just all go off and
propose changes Right While Miss Lockwood's pulling that up the last paragraph of that section talks about the grant writer services I don't know if you want to adjust that um last sentence accordingly
Okay So I think we can just strike it now that it's in the Do we agree And change the font I don't like that font Okay Um 35 Okay So I had added on my notes one you had
one important aspect of state aid is where is that right above the graph right above the graph okay so I'll just tell you and try don't try to find it because it'll be easy for me to just follow one document
um one important aspect of the state aid is chapter 70 chapter And then I in my mind I wanted to call out what chapter 70 is because this is going to every household and and I added chapter 7 is
pro chapter 7 program is the primary s source of state aid for funding local public elementary and secondary schools This year's the governor budget allocated blah blah of chapter 70 funds to Lunberg Um and then just so that we
really call out that this is for education and this is what they're giving us for education versus just saying chapter 70 Okay So we this section got rewarded a little bit So how would we want to do that do you want a definition of what chapter
70 is i just want to add chapter 70 so people know when they're reading what chapter 70 is Okay So after the sentence it says chapter 70 governor's budget is set at blah blah blah for education just add a yeah at the p it's a p is the primary
source I I'll copy this and you guys can just incorporate like christ stay there so I don't lose uh suddenly I'll put it over here and put in just some more information it go something
happened Nope Not a tall back I'm trying to admit it's the funding No it's just that statement Let's just put something that this is like if the state's going to give us money for education this is
it somewhere there I think it would make me happy Okay So I would just Okay you can add in any way you want All right I will update that after the fact Okay I think that's a good idea Do we have like track changes on or
something yeah Um when you go under Yeah Um where it says editing and if you could if you do reviewing it you'll do track changes Okay I don't know what's going on Okay I will I will add
that All right Then we have the table um which kind of shows that for most of this period you know the state increased this by over 5% But the last 3 years it's been 1 and 12 percentage So that's
that's pretty significant I think impact Can I ask a question about the 1 and a half% um it wasn't clear to me because I was looking at the table What was the 5.3 and what was the one and a half is it the percentage change between year over
year so like between um I think I originally had that as from FY13 to FY23 it was 5.3% Is that how I had it mhm Okay And and between and when is it
I would say when those increases were over the past decade from 2013 to FY24 it was 5.3 [Music]
And the 1.5 was between just the last 3 years So I removed over the last decade and just changed it cuz I had calculated them from FY13 to FY23 Okay Increased Okay Anything else on that paragraph no
Okay Then we have a table Um I pulled this right off of um the state site and then added numbers I think in FY25 and 26 from the schools associated with
change Um I think the FY25 number is right on for student enrollment foundation enrollment cuz that's what was presented to us But it's strange that it didn't change But I don't think it's a huge deal if it's software
I got it from their presentation though Okay Well yeah I mean okay Anything on the table okay Anything on the paragraph after the table when is the aftert operation additional
revenue sources include local [Music] receipts All right The next section states operations and has an introductory parag paragraph Any comments on that i do have one comment on the sentence beginning
with as as a result of these headwinds Um because we are making that one increase I didn't know if we wanted to say instead of the word either have been largely held level So did we did you strike that or something i don't see
headwinds on here anymore As a result of these headwinds apartment staffing plans as as a result department staffing plans are either maintain I think someone took out headwinds out What said I think someone took out headwinds from their version cuz I don't
see headwinds Okay So it's still as a it's that sentence It's just the word either in that sentence Staffing plans are either have largely been held for sentence Okay either as a result department staffing plans are either
maintained based on have largely been held level So what do you suggest have largely well because there is the one staffing change proposed I don't want to say that they have all been held level they have been largely held gotcha so what's the language you know largely
held well so I think she's looking at different language though I yeah it's I'm going between the two versions cuz I my track changes are in one you it's really just that word either I can make the change here should I just
are largely is what you wanted have uh so as a as a result department staffing plans have largely been held have largely been uh okay it is a different level as a department staffing plans I think this
are largely put a note then don't think about it later or or most the mostly or as a result the vast majority of department staffing plans Maybe put it there Yeah
Do you want vast in there i think Yeah Let's put in there majority Do you even have a vast majority in the apartment sounds so much better Does it sound like we're Worester
been maintained Or do you still want the word either in there have been maintained Have been Okay Yeah Have been maintained placed on hold or reduced Yeah So plans have been maintained Yeah Oh that's good Okay
I think and then just the fire department and school department experienced the most significant impacts of these decisions this year Okay Well I mean Oh because Okay just it's fine
You need a pluralized decision Thank you Anything else on that operations paragraph all right School department operations So um my
suggestion is to say instead of calling out 28 full-time equivalent and 39 actual positions my my suggestion is to make that a not exact number because just last night
they were saying we might shift That might means different cuts Then I need different numbers because this is a a report that goes into town meeting I just think of the you know exact record Um and this is something that fluctuates
depending on which position they cut their priority like literally they can make changes to their staffing plans on you know 10 days before the day before uh the new fiscal year goes on So I wouldn't call out exact
things for various reasons Either that or add an addendum on that these numbers are subject to change based on the use Put it approximately Yeah Yeah That looks good Approximately makes sense Okay Yeah And I I think we got to be
careful saying 28 full-time equivalents and 39 actual positions because some people will read that as you know 67 people parentheses maybe
I think I think what Chris changed it to um that I would not write any exact number alone yesterday My suggestion is no exact number period What would you say i would just say the budget is
eliminating um eliminating staff and the uh school committees and superintendent are still working on finalizing those changes at this time and but you
know I mean they haven't even but anyway I'm going to let it go Um I would say something along the lines of the decisions they have made That's all Um we just have to be transparent cuz if you don't put a number they're going to inflate the number I I think like I
would inflate it If any I agree I think if anything I would say this you know this budget necessitates eliminating approximately 28 full-time equivalents 39 employees at the time of of this publication These numbers may change as
I would do one number then so that is like so there's no confusion like the one you you stated We don't want this to be create more confusion No I I I agree Okay I I think this is their stated
number at the report Yeah But you know at the same time they they consistently say they can you know it's never an exact number because it can change depends on the position They may combine functions like I I hear you I
just it is their stated number as LA of last night I think I think we're covering ourselves at the time of writing Right Yeah Which is good approximately Yeah Yeah No I I think this is good Okay Right We're not soothsayers We can't just We have to
We're writing it now This is what we know Yeah No this is good Okay A citizen's pet petition article for 2 million blah blah blah Anything on that paragraph it it I mean it's just so hard because
like it's petition of it's not level funding because just yesterday they said it's not level funded They have not funded They took it on fees Um I would say as this the presented
superintended level funded budget because that is the only I I have never been presented a level funding budget to the school committee I don't go off what's presented Well the SIS petition was was I mean I can put level funding in
quotes if I mean but that they had the they um and then so that's what it was for whether or not it is that's enough money or it's too much money for uh restoring level funding That's what the article was I think it's true that it aims to restore
level funding Yes that was stated Yep Just restore to FY25 uh operations Sure that's fine [Music]
So today I did add the select board voted unanimously to recommend disapproval of this article and further voted to not include the proposition 2 and a half override on the annual town meeting as a proposition 2 and a half override The article would require
passage at town meeting and at an election Therefore no path exists for this article Um I think to say that we approved it too Um it um the Slack board voted an
unanously to not recommended approve of this article and further voted to not include the proposition on the annual town election Yeah Warrant on the annual town election warrant
Town Yeah Not meeting Is it warrant or ballot uh warrant that was ballot Uh it becomes a ballot Okay Oh we're getting technical here This lawyer I can see it's all freaking
Okay Anything else i got you No I I considered putting in something related to Brian's um email to us tonight [Music] Um but but I chose not to cuz they never
took a vote So and that's why I get so I mean I know I'm worried but it's you know it's so hard to express that in a I I'm with you Okay So if approved tax rate would increase by approximately 89 per thousand I kind of did that based on
the that was my calculation I think Does that sound accurate i can put it in the calculator right now There is a website Yes there it is I just calculate stuff in my head Sometimes it's wrong WPI Not really But
I was just once but I was just mistaken What's that i said I was wrong once but I was mistaken That's right [Music] Okay Are you okay all right Oh error while processing my request
does nothing So something I mentioned to Chris the other day I don't know how you guys feel like I don't I don't overly like the 89 cents per thousand I mean it's fine right but I would much rather see a percentage in
there or at least you know add it in there so people could actually hear what they are getting increased by What was your calculation 89 cents Yeah Mhm 100% correct He looked it up earlier No
I didn't $449.39 Yeah 100% Um well how would the percentage of Joe she hates it
I give a dick another dick for WI but all right I hear you Um I hear you Because because here's the thing right so 89 cents per thousand okay got to kind of figure out what that is to my tax rate and
everything else But if I sit here and tell you that that is equal to a 6.2% increase on your taxes from last year you kind of know lock that in pretty fast Yeah But um people people are going to want to know
how much it's going to increase their their tax bill And that's what it says 449 for a house of 504,937 So I think that's going to help people understand I mean I know engineers love percentages but average
people do too but average people like real dollars How much it going to cost me i don't care Don't tell me 6% more How much $449 Okay If your house was worth $54,000 right so you just look at your tax bill
and say "Okay it's it's 600,000." So 600 * 8 89 is I know Chris has figured that out already but uh whatever that number is We multiply it by 6% I think it's the same The only thing
that I'll note is that people that are used to dealing with tax and town meeting and they think this is a language that they're used to I get it I just find it very ambiguous because you're basing it on averages right so you're you're basing $449 on a $54,000
average for the for the town right i mean we've put tables in in the past like last year we put in a table Uh this would get complicated with multiple tables I'm not saying a table I mean just simply I I do
think like in general we use the the how much per thousand and equate it to a single family household Um is it 6% is.19 we just put both so that might work different ways can add in different way
doesn't also the reason they do these dollars you know your isn't because like if your tax rate changed that 40 cents does not change and if you're well we just said that that 89 cents could change though right or that the actual amount that you
pay per thousand changes based on valuations as well cuz it only go up 2% Exact It's based this is like a snapshot in time at what the current tax the impact right now Right So with uh if the
valuations go up that 449 no longer holds Did you say 6.9 6.19 6.19 All right So I put another sentence This is a 6.19% increase in property tax Well one thing that'll come since we're
talking about percentages and you like it based on the average I'm sorry You should write based on this average No it's based on anything at that point It it will Yeah because your your total fiscal year 25 tax levy included included debt was
34 million This is going to add 2.1 million All right That was quick but I'm impressed Yeah Anyway we'll be keep going Okay I I see no problem adding that
Okay If the override is rejected article N 500,000 um is a temporary measure to delay service cuts The school committee has not yet determined how these funds would be allocated with further details expected at annual town meeting
Um actually they said it will not be a town meeting It will be after Tom meeting If it passes and it passes in the ballot they'll discuss Then that was based on yesterday's meeting She did Not the override The 500,000 The 500,000 Oh okay Sorry I'm still on the over We're
talking about override here No I moved off We're done with overrides Okay We got to get out of here by 11:00 Yeah I have a curfew 14
All right I have a dog fire department operations So for those that don't have this you know fire department currently operates three shifts covering 24/7 town operations leading to a 48 hour 6 day per week schedule Sundays are covered by call and
pertium staff with 62% of coverage provided by Griff firefighters Of the 197 mass fire departments providing 24/7 coverage Looneyberg is only one of six operating with three shifts Most departments use a four shift model making Ludenberg less
competitive in hiring and retention The shift expansion plan remains on hold for another year Oh it has What do you think Glenn i think you should
Um so one thing I made note Chris because you hammered on me like don't give opinion and here you say um should be a Oh you said the ship is
okay Okay it got taken out um on the previous head but should be addressed in the future should and I said you know should be it's a an opinion versus a statement of fact but that got taken out
okay all right so on the borrowing the the intell so I was I originally put this all in there I think it maybe still should be in there but um a definition of regular debt and exclus suitable debt Um and then uh town manager and I had a back
and forth on you know how might we word she she came up with this green portion um the fact that it is healthy to have debt like the discussion we had earlier So I put it in green just to put attention to it Um and I kind of put it
in between definitions of debt and then the policy Uh so open this is new to everyone except for Jen and I Um so what's people's thought on that and the source is DLS directly So
I would take out however Me too I was thinking that just because we want it to be clearcut right and it's just true Take out the however statement or or just the however word like that cannot become overburdensome Yeah
So one thing just because of terminology used throughout town meeting you weren't um um I know we are thinking capital purchasing as a general for that but because we have capital planning committee the capital things I'm not sure I would
use capital purchasing saying I would I'll maybe use you know that um taking on new debt should ideally be planned with its priorities analyzed and reviewed by uh
well why are we talking about a capital committee here like I I agree with the sentiment of this second part but I wouldn't mix capital capital planning committee here is this whole paragraph from DLS Mhm I I
know what they're saying but it's not the terminology usually used in town meeting I'm going to add that I think according to the division of local services I think it just shows an accountability of checks and
balances and I think we should take out ideally the division We're kind of changing their quote though Oh are we quoting it no we're not quoting We're We should put it in quotes in the site Well we're Hold on I just
want to get This is a direct quote from DLS or did you paraphrase it i did not paraphrase anything It's completely a direct quote Mhm I we just took took out somewhere However just took out stuff Okay So why don't we why don't we put however back and just utilize their
quote Mhm Cuz those DLS people are wicked smart too But they probably live in the city No And can you just add the word before division not According to the Division
of Local Services the not the Ohio State and you probably should say Massachusetts Division Local Service so they know we're talking about the state Commonwealth of Massachusetts Okay we're having fun Oh
yeah I'm going to block it Okay The town policy mandates Is it mandates or states is it suggests i think states We don't suggest It's too flaky All right
This year regular debt decreases by 393 with savings allocated to I would say the with capital allocated to revenue allocated to something else I wouldn't say savings Say what i wouldn't use the word savings I would use the
word capital revenue What does a finance director say is the proper with savings is with the amount with monies I always like saying monies with these funds these funds being it
could be yeah which is monies monies these monies You sound really like [Music] right being being allocated to right Yes or being being allocated they do math
not English by utilizing with these offset funds by by utilizing these funds Utilizing these funds utilizing these what's what are we saying with these funds sounds weird to me Being util I would say utilizing these funds
um for the following So after four utilized for Yeah So instead of with these funds being allocated to um I would say these Yeah these how about this utilized for utilized for Okay Yeah
This is a great level we're writing in here Okay I don't think there's anything controversial with the one two the sentence between them or the other one too I did delete uh just so the
um the um track and field was also in our original rev but that's been deleted from the [Music] warrant Do we want to put the percentages in here too mike
I like them for consistency I'm an engineer I guess So you know All right You just figure that out then and you tell us what it is All right So Mike needs to give me a number This is a Well which which plan are we going by 18 24
16 year 18 18 We're going with 18 So is that 46 and 57 accurate yes That's from the the schedule of the bond council Great job Chris Jean and Tanya
What happened i know I just I'm I'm I'm saying good job for the people that worked on this Who chris did all the work in Jean I didn't do much work I I looked at it and I thought it looked pretty good
Mhm I guess it's proportional to 89 Yeah it says like 3 4.46 is 3.2% 3.2 Yeah that's what I came up with 3.20
Well now I cleared it Are we using significant figures or or 3.2 is fine i That's going to 46 and then what do you say 57 Okay And then it's like 3.97 for the
other one So just let's just say it's four Like keeping it under four Yep 3.97 That's better Yeah It's like 9/10 of a cent on gas All right The estimated impact for the Marshall Park projections will be
detailed at town meeting Should we say that they they will be below the excludable debt limit i think you can make that work right mhm Okay So the
combined both projects combined would remain under the exclude above debt policy
limit of 11% Does that sound English do you think that that's going to open up questions about but these three years where it's just over well that's what my question is Like I think can you make that you can make the app can I make the
argument work i can make I mean could you make the math work i guess like could you make it so that it remains under 11% Can can we pay something ahead with free cash to or just the timing of it i mean how
accurate was the timing of all those projects and the borrowing and it would depend on when the projects actually start Yeah Junction I think was FY27 Mhm But
that's still right Right Right would overall remain under would would overall remain under the 11% with three year well maybe just say with 3 years possibly being just above the recommended threshold and overall and it's recommend it is should the word is
should not and and the total debt is still well below 14% which is really the number that we're trying to get because we have I mean we pretty much have no regular debt left So overall we're still o under the 14%
throughout the lifetime of these right Do you remember which years those were do you remember anything i think it was like it was like years 3 four five That's what I want to say is I want to say it's a trigger explainer Yeah
So I'm going to say based on timing of project initiation project initiation and bond issues I don't like that word issues isn't that what it is though issuance
issuance of bond is issuance one too many misplaced shoes like what is she wear right everything right these are all estim right what as he's saying in my ears these are all estimates because if we have all of a
sudden a lot of development that $400 estimated new growth could skyrocket or vice versa so it's this is another snapshot based on okay so days The average home value can change at the time of the borrowing The market
can change the percent of the the interest rate the interest rates The combined projects would be around the 11%
excludable debt policy limit Okay How's that okay Um and then just summary is thank yous The music starts coming on and we get yanked off the stage And you're going to reformat so it's
nice and pretty and the same Yeah And I'm going to try to make it so that everyone's name I can do that by just doing this Okay Yep We will try to make it pretty Okay So I have like one thing to just kind of put in there that I could
probably do it right now Honestly I have to I think we should have cookies for this meetings made by Cara Menard White chocolate chip Really huh some pastries over there
Cookies are not It's not like carame cookies They are awesome Put coconut in them Huh will she be delivering a tray for town meeting i don't know M cookies
Well he's doing stuff you know and I can only think about cookies Did you like format this as red font and underlined or me no Anna Oh her changes were okay Okay So as it stands right now is there
anything we're missing from the report i'm sure there's other things we could have delved into but I think these are the key things I think that that like in a high level that's a good snapshot of the current finances I mean I did see on
the in the in another town's financial report where it did call out they the school department there also used some free cash to stabilize their operations and the finance committee said this is not okay not sustainable and we don't
recommend There was a bit of a disagreement We're not going there We're just stating facts [Music] Um All right So with that um I'll I'll work with town manager Obviously we got to update the article
numbers There might be some slight tweaks of things Um I don't think there will be anything major um that comes out of any of that Um keep switch Tom did you were you
no No Okay So with that um I would entertain a motion to approve the minutes um while allowing uh the chair to make editorial comments and
corrections Um not approve the minutes Approve the finance committee annual report Uh so moved Second All right You can go All right Any any discussion no Nope
Okay A roll call vote Um Tom I Mike I Hana I Tanya I Jean I and an I for myself All right So I want to thank everyone for working through this tonight
Um this is actually like the hardest part of being This is probably one of the hardest things I think that we do is is encapsulating this all in the record So next year one of you guys can just have a template and we can just
put the information in So um so we going to What's next cuz her laptop Yeah Yeah Okay So um I don't think there's any more budget
discussions or actually I I do have I I want to run through some numbers cuz I I didn't watch the entire school committee meeting last night Um I watched a little beat a little bit and um and I will tell you that my my lane is the taxpayer and
any information I want I will I have a a right to do it as a taxpayer And when you manage a $25 million budget you got to be ready to answer some questions But the budget even at a town manager level for the school department does deserve scrutiny And I'm going to run through
some very high level practices of budgeting So people at home this late at night can understand Last year the school budget the school department budget was $24 million $883,000 Round it up They had budgeted
$17,188,000 in salaries This year they're increasing that budget by $949,25 That is based the increases based on um town managers budget So they're have more revenue and they're increasing that that amount They have
said that they are reducing their staff by 9.3% which they said is 301 full-time uh equivalent employees However I will call it out that during the budget analysis presentation that they have they have two different sections that call out
their total number of employees Both of those do not add to 300 One adds to about 254 One stays around the 239 Oh to this day I don't know where the 301 full-time equivalent employees come from but that's what they said So if we get
uh 9.3% of 17,188,000 we get 1 $1,598,000 Now I'm going to say that there's different pay scales We probably if there you have to do a reduction of personnel you're probably going to do on the lower part So I said "Okay what is
80% of that is $1,278,000." Okay So now let's think about how you would do a budget You do a budget by getting the money that you have from the previous get your new uh revenue which is
949,000 And you look at what you reduce your budget to see what's available to build on top And that's another $1.28 million Okay So out of the new revenue and bud budget reductions they had free
1.21,278,000 but let's add more because they told us that is another 2,500 2,ion54,000 that is not being funded So so just we have an idea based on these
numbers that is between FY25 and their FY26 that is a $4,282,000 budget increase from their previous year That is a 17.21% increase And that's just how you
do budget You take money is available you look at your reductions and then you look how far you are Because if you were doing your budget and you were far for that 2 million you start planning accordingly So I think there is something that we need to really figure out what happened to this year So that
when we get to I mean even the true even the town manager now here's a caveat that I don't want to go into too much of my things that I'm looking at and like whoa But I'll tell you one um we were uh present with the information that
staff alone based on contract increases were going to receive $944,000 just based on that I think that's more enco encompassing than one class of than one group of staff All right So here's the thing Between FY25
and FY26 the total amount spent on budget for staff is less by $472,000 So we're increasing this number but in staff we are actually reducing 7
uh $472,000 So I think there is there is a lot to be looked at at this budget and I still want to know what is their staff count I still want to see where their
budget all their revenues coming from because I think there's a lot of tell that we need to learn from this year So just think about that 17.21% because that is how you would do the budget You start with money is available minus the reductions you did
that's about 2 million and then you look what is your delta and that is how much you need new this year It's a lot of money So I'm sorry that actually I'm not sorry like u um someone uh the uh I'm not apologizing I will likely do it
again I will continue to look at these numbers because it has to make sense Um it needs to be very well explained and as a requirement for the school committee if they take a look on their requirements to do on the charter they
should have been presented a very long document explaining the shifts That's part of the charter And if I'm asking questions and I don't have the answers it's because they have not met those those requirements That is one document that they have presented called budget
analysis where numbers don't match And if you're tired because the numbers don't match that's fine Just give me what the real number is and let's start with your headc count So that's all Thank you Thank you for the due diligence I I'm just saying like you know you've included like 100,000 but
now your your staff is less Wo I also think we have to be extremely mindful of throwing out all of this information Um the school committee did present to us for hours and hours two times and we did go line by line We did look at all
the expenses Um so I mean I don't know why why there's such an influx of numbers and information Now well I mean let me I will say one thing So our practice up until last year when they didn't have a business manager and there
was four budgets flowing around and everything was on spreadsheets and what have you is that uh the business manager came in with a presentation an actual PowerPoint presentation presented to us off of a presentation gave it to us 48 hours
before the meeting and we had the detailed budgets in front of us I will also say that prior to last year we weren't in kind of these this crisis mode of of being underfunded by
things Things were going pretty well and we had lift from Esser and we every year in our in our reports stated we cannot rely on Esser and we should not and we should not hire based on ESSER and you can always play a
shell game like oh well I'm not paying out of my right pocket I'm paying out of my left pocket Um so I think we've got we did get oursel into a situation in the schools um that maybe at some point we can go back and do a a you know a large case
study on or something like that But I also do think we are where we are and I do think that collectively we do need to focus on analyzing the data like you talk about in detail 5 years in the rear on actuals
5 years in the rear on budget 5 years in the re and going forward on projections And we need to get to this this state of budgeting where it's working off of detailed plans and deviating off of those plans updating those plans Um so I
get some of the comments that were made last night I wasn't going to say anything about them I don't take offense by any of them We are where we are Um I do think we are the fiscal watchdog for the town though Um so going into this
level of detail is definitely within our within our uh mass mass laws Uh the charter really only describes the process by which we get to town meeting So Mass General Law then confers the rest of the the powers at our finance
committee which is why I sent everyone that that handbook Um because maybe we should read that you know on the beach this summer and Oh yeah get up to speed on it Right So um All right The other things I did want to talk about is um did anyone get
chance to read the minutes that were that were put in today no I read all the minutes So I did Wow Okay I did as well All right So um we are at the point where we're kind of probably needing to start approving minutes but if only two
of us had a chance to read them Um we'll have to do it at a at an at one of our next meetings Did you read it because if you did you guys got three What did you read it i did but um that's three Who who else this two You Jean and
Tanya She did not Oh okay Sorry I thought you So I think the homework for this next week is go through all the minutes Um there's in the minutes to review I have not given town clerk the ones that we've approved the last couple
meetings I got to go back through my notes excuse me and and remind myself which ones we did approve Um just to let you know Krist I I emailed you about this earlier I think we need to look at a different way to record
minutes Maybe through the trans the transcription service through Zoom or something because I don't feel like it's encompassing everything in those minutes I don't think they're capturing everything We do have some software that Yeah Yeah And then the person who does the minutes can kind of watch it and
then look at the software just to make sure they correlate Yeah Who's doing your minutes for you um Danielle Bar And a great job I mean it's hard It's a lot to watch a YouTube meeting of 5 6 hours long So like awful I would not want to
do that But if she had a transcription of it and then watched it and compared it it might be a little bit quicker and easier for her to just update what was not correct If something was missed than just the I will say in YouTube you can
pull up the transcript next to the video Can you you can't it won't say who's speaking and what's current But it will but we do have software But I don't think minutes are transcripts I will say that but it will give you um maybe I
think there's inconsistency in minute takers I don't know if we train them I don't know if we give them the tools to do it Um some some boards actually take like in in um nonprofits or things like that they actually take minutes during the meeting and approve the minutes at
the end of the meeting So maybe like to your point there is a better way of doing things in you know 20 25 cuz when we're approving the minutes are we approving what's in the minutes or then we just read them well you're proving that they're accurate
Yeah Yeah It it is harder I think a little bit on the complete side of things Now I have we had a point where we didn't have anyone writing minutes for us and we all had to write minutes on the fincom and it is awful It is awful
It It's really bad Okay Um so we have a meeting scheduled for next week but I don't know that we have any pressing topics for next week Um is there anything that any I I don't know
what I'd put on an agenda for next week to be honest with you Um I don't think you have anything you need from us right i don't think we're going to get anything from the schools in the next week Um barring some you know revelation
as we lead into town hall I I would almost say let's we recommend just having April 10th I love that idea Okay that you're supposed to say what is emotion What doesn't have to be emotion
and then I will play it by ear for the Are we the first and third or the second and fourth it I kind of forget at this so I think we're the second and fourth right but if we need one on the 24th um I will we'll likely have at least one
before a town meeting right yeah I will say that I'm I'm likely not to be in the United States on the 24th but um if we need one between now and town meeting we'll we'll do
that Otherwise we'll meet after town meeting and which is why I did kind of want to get towards approving minutes So we'll pro I'll probably plan for either the 17th or the 24th So I'll get you keep keep up on your emails and
um Jean you may need to run it though Okay Um it should be I hopefully it's it's easy Okay Um any public comment from the public glenn Mloud 436 Reservoir Road I just feel like I'm obligated to uh
explain why I stayed here so late I was going to leave earlier but I do want to specifically uh thank uh member Russell for her dissenting vote on the town hall I I agree with with that vote Um and I hope you know and I know that's a very hard position to take cuz it's very hard
to get up here and uh to you know speak out against it cuz as I've said before and you know speaking for myself that there's really nothing about that project that that I like I believe I have said that here before and it is hard to say that because of the um the points that the chair had made So I just
do also hope if it does pass that you remember the compassion for the employees and providing them a nice place to work that you know you you share that same compassion when the discussions come up when you want to increase their health insurance rates or you don't want to give them a a raise
that that is um due to them a reasonable raise and uh working off another comment of one of the members I mean we're working to try to staff the fire department and we we still haven't fully staffed that building uh we don't need to talk about the staffing of the
schools and then my concern is we we build that building and um not staff it appropriately or or compensate those employees So it's just thoughts to keep in mind and I and I and I really do appreciate the you know the hearing a conversation tonight because
it does put it in perspective when you talk about debt service and the town's policy about debt service and how it fits in with the timing That's all very helpful So you know in just leading leading to my next point which the last one was going to be my only one but I'd really appreciated the comments relative
to asking the difficult questions and I would again like to thank all of you for being on on the finance committee because you all have skills that I do not have and I really appreciate the fact that you do share those with the town's people because you know again
speaking individually I I personally you know benefit from the uh the questions that you ask and the and the uh information that you present So I I really do appreciate the work you do and um and I and I'm certain that you you get push back for it and you know I am
not giving you push back for the tough questions I'm commending you Thank you very much And uh member Russell gets a gold star tonight The rest of you silver There's nothing wrong with silver Thank you very much Thank you All right Uh John
Yeah I just wanted to um um just comment that um with the last speaker I I agree with all the hard work that you folks on this finance committee do for us Um Chris you have really stepped up
um with you know grabbing this with your busy schedule and um I'm I'm very happy about it and I think that um overall I think this entire board and its composition including the addition of Mr
up um is an excellent excellent board for us to be able to ask the hard questions and you folks be able to answer and I just want to commend that as well C can I have a gold star
yes I will give you a gold star So you all get a gold star Um but you know like the last speaker said silver is not that bad But but other than that you know I think that overall you know this is uh uh you
guys have really worked really hard in this budget season You guys have done a fantastic job Last year was rough and everybody had difficulty We pushed through it but this year um I think uh last year was a learning curve that put
us on the right track this year And I really appreciate everything you guys do Thank you John Great Uh I don't see any more public Any public comment from the board public comment all right Uh with
that I'd entertain a motion to adjurnn Motion moved I want a second All right We all have our rules All right Roll call vote Tom I Mike Hi Anna I Tanya Hi Dean Hi All right I We are adjourned
Thank you all Thank you for a good budget season Thank you all secondary charger This one proposed this This one's trying to get into my pocket