recording in progress. All right. Good evening. This is the Thursday, August 14th, Lunberg Finance Committee meeting. Uh, in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law, please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and broadcast over the Lunberg public access channel
and on Facebook live on the public access Facebook page and will be uploaded to the Lunberg Access YouTube channel after the meeting. Um, if you'd like to connect via Zoom or if you'd like to call in, uh, those
numbers are on our agenda which can be found on lunbergmma.gov. And with that, if we can stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, let's see. Do we have any announcements? I don't have any announcements. Anyone else?
All righty. Tanya's two goats. Except for your goats. My goats. I'm getting goats now. Um, are we on the Zoom or is that just TV's not working? That monitor. Uh, they mustn't have turned it on. We are on Zoom. Mike is um is on.
Is anybody on? Mike is on. Okay. Yep. All right. Um, do we have any public comment from the public? Mr. Chairman, yes. Dave Rogers, 82 Highland Street. Uh, I'm going to sit because if I don't, I'll
fall. Um, I have a couple of questions. Um, I I heard through the grapevine that uh uh miraculously uh there was $200,000 that were was found in the school budget. And I'd like
to uh make sure uh you folks at least heard that. I don't know if it's true or not. And if we could comment on it, that would be great. Um the uh uh the other thing is that uh I
understand that we have hired a uh business manager for the for the um uh school. Have you heard that? No. Anybody heard it? No. You have? I I saw it on their last meeting they they did
the official appointment. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Just an editorial comment. It's it's unfortunate that they can't uh you know um introduce that person to the financial people in town hall and to make sure
that uh that the town and and all the uh office folks uh welcome them. Um, and I think uh it's something that should be uh you know because it's an important uh uh position. Um that's all I have.
Great. Thank you. Thank you. Any public comment from the committee? Um I mean I hearing u Mr. Roger's comments. Um I it'll be great to get to
meet the um the business manager which is similar to our finance director here. Um and I I hope that Ezekiel was part of that that interview process even if it's to meet them. Um you know it's very
important to get that relationship started right away and that we start you know we work better as a team. Um, you know, we're talking about a team of two people. We can we can do that. Um, and I'm probably thinking that the I the
money the school turning over is probably unspent money from the previous budget year. Um, I I hope it's not bounce checks, right? Yeah. It would be interesting during uh budget season to start reviewing those things and see where
that was because this 200, you said 200,000. That's what I heard. Yeah. So that's, you know, we pass up uh an override last year of uh almost a million dollars. That $200,000 is part of that. And this year on top of that
override, we just gave them another half a million dollars to be used towards their budget. So So it would be good to get some some clarity on, you know, what was unspent. Okay. I can I can try to reach out to
the school committee on that. I assume the new business manager. Do you know do you know a name? It's a it's a him. Um I don't know the name. It was they had the appointment like the official vote similar to how the select
board does it. Okay. But it was he was off camera um and it was very quick vote. So it was there wasn't much that I saw. There wasn't much done in public. Does anybody see an issue with that votes off camera? Everything well
on the back side. Yeah. Well, I'm just wondering is that normal for Lunenburgg of Lunberg? We don't have the best, you know, many cameras facing everywhere, right? Well, technically the appointment is from the superintendent superintendent and the I think the um
school committee they there's a term for um ratify the appointment that the superintendent does it. So yeah, I Yeah, I mean I I just hope that what I really hope is that Ezekiel at least Ezekiel got to meet with this person and
and give the feedback, not necessarily be part of uh of the hiring, you know, like when you're hiring a salesperson, you have them meet with your marketing team. So that's all I look forward to hearing that report. Yeah. Yeah. And I would assume we may
get an opportunity to meet him on the 26th. Okay. They're going to be they would be part of the tri board meeting. And I did not hear about the 200,000, but I'll I'll um
strive to find out what that was. Yep. That's what we can do. Mr. Champ through you to uh Anna. Um, didn't you when you did some analysis, didn't you uh come up with a uh quite a
big figure that that was in the the uh athletic? Yes. So there the school athletic revolving account went into the negative around I I believe between 120
150,000. Um, and they used other unspent money from their budget to offset that. So, we use we used other line items in order to offset that that deficit that
they went into it. So, yeah. So, and so if we get 200 plus 12, now we're at 320. Um it it's it's a big number in my mind because that's $320,000 that did not go towards items that were
presented in the budget in town meeting. Mhm. Okay. Any other public comment from the committee? Let me just let me just clarify. the superintendent chooses the business manager without an application process
or is an application process but it goes through the school department as opposed to the town department. Yeah. So the way that it works both for town positions and um school positions is the town manager makes the
recommendation for ratification from the select board and see what happens on school side because it didn't seem to work too well last year. So how do we like make sure that that process is a little bit more open and transparent?
So yeah, I mean we're Yeah. So that's an executive function. Okay. And one that is given to the um ultimately the town manager and the superintendent and the department. So I missed the beginning part of this. No, we were just talking about the new business manager
for the public schools. Um the newly appointed business manager. I guess the name is Chris McMara. No, there's no more Chris's. That's it. No, that's it. It's a generational thing. So, we're just wondering how that came about. No one really like we we didn't
know about it. Like how that works. This is just me being new to the town as well. So, would you get up and tell us your name and address? You feel like a rose between two wounds.
Okay. So, um, this this is not a position that's created by myself. This is a position that's created by the superintendent, I would assume, with authorization of the school committee. Um, I recall speaking a little off the cuff, but I recall watching meetings
where there was discussion at the school committee about um bifurcating the position that was held by Dr. Gillson and and that is I think what the outcome was. So, the new person did they meet? Do you know if they met with, you know, our
business manager, if there was any director, our finance director or if there was any involvement there? So, um, our, so the the person that Mr. Mr. Chris, um, that was hired, uh, we were not involved in his hiring. Okay.
Um, I have not met him yet. I think I think that, uh, Ezekiel has not met him yet either. Um the school district does have a consultant on in that capacity currently um to fill the interim gap and that's the same
consultant that they had previously or the same firm that they had previously to assist and the finance director has had several meetings with that firm. Okay. Uh but not with the person that's I don't I don't think he started yet but not with the person that's been hired for the school business position.
Okay. So, this is the hiring policy of the business manager for public schools goes completely through the schools and not the town. Correct. Okay. You know, I'm going to I don't want to make it I I just want to you know, like you said, you're new to town. So when we
first had a new recreational director in town, we went through a a few different a couple before and it was done very very similarly to you know to how this appointment came about in terms of public. Um, and when I
was the chair is is when we hired the current and I had pleaded with the previous town manager to make the the commission the parks commission part of that just because we had that specialty. We could speak about recreation. I'm not
sure necessarily, you know, is always and and the previous town manager did make us, you know, allows us to give feedback on the on that information on on that hiring process. So it's it's always, you know, in my mind, I know people get a little finicky about, you
know, who owns what, who makes what decision, but in my mind, I'm always looking for the best one and, you know, thinking about what is the best process in order to have the best hire. It would be my question, you know, and uh and I would think I I'm not necessarily the
best person to give feedback on how to hire a teacher, but maybe other things I would. Um, so anyway, yeah, and on the back end of that, this is such a financial
job role. Um, where in the past we've seen a superintendent choose a candidate that was not qualified to do this job. So maybe we should be looking at some type of cross hiring should be their decision if
that's the way it should be. But there should be some type of meeting with our finance people considering where we are with the discrepancies of the you know school committee money. It's like all over the place. So I don't know maybe is that something that we can talk about you know in the
future? This person's already been appointed. This is too late. Um but maybe going forward our hiring policies should especially at a very high finance level should maybe includes like include like the finance committee or town manager or the business you know the
finance manager I don't know so in the um in the interview rounds prior to uh this current round when there were previous candidates interviewed um both uh myself and the finance director were invited to partake
in those interviews. It's just for this particular candidate in this particular selection cycle. We were not part of that, but that might have been something that was um that was I think that was occurring right as the transition between superintendent. I think ultimately though um this is under the
direct jurisdiction of ultimately the school committee through the superintendent, right? So, we're not involved per se uh in the hiring of a superintendent unless the school committee decides to have a
superintendent search that allows folks from across the uh organization be a part of that. Right? So I think the same holds true that ultimately it would be their decision um whether or not but I I think it was helpful for us to be in the room to certainly evaluate what we
perceived of the candidates strengths. And you were but you this not on this particular one. Okay. So for this person that they hired you were not in the room and neither was Ezekiel. No. Okay. This is kind of to me this is in the tri committee. They're going to be
talking about can we merge a few things between the school and the town. This is I mean the state wants them to be separate. How do we but we as a town would like them to work together. So I think that's just they have to work together
right. They have right we do right obviously but I mean the more they work together hopefully the better results we'll get. So how do we do that? you know, and that could be talked about at the tri committee or could it be just, you know, discussions between, you know,
you and the superintendent and others and just say, you know, how do we how do we make sure that we're we're on the same page. Uh, but you're right, it's the decision of the school committee and the superintendent and uh we'll see how it
goes. And to be clear, I trust that the superintendent's making a good decision here, but just sitting on this committee for the past year and look seeing a bad decision that was made, I want to give the benefit of the doubt to the new superintendent. I know you were very highly um involved in that hire, so I trust you. Um so I'm hoping fingers you
weren't fingers crossed, but there were a lot of great folks who were okay. So, we'll just have to see how it goes and keep our fingers crossed and hopefully we can collaborate a little bit closer between the tri boards um and put something into place where we have just a a lens into it. Not a not a vote,
not a decision, just a lens common sense and and just etiquette from my standpoint where I was uh brought up in the business uh world. Uh it's just it's nice to say well welcome and at
least know who they are and they don't have to come to Dave Rogers at 82 Highland Street, you know, but they should meet everybody else and at least it's just basic common sense and civility. That's all. Okay. So I I would imagine the superintendent
and this business manager are still drinking from a fire hose. So I think they will make to us. They keep drinking from the fire hose. You know what I'm talking I've drunk out a lot of things. Put it down.
So yeah, that was my only not even a concern. Just my Yeah. two cents. Anyway, okay. Any other public comment? All right. Um any town manager report for us?
highlights. I heard chapter 90 Mike have gotten. Yeah, there's all sorts of money coming through, additional funds, which is great. Did we find out how much that was going to be? The the n the additional 90 money? I I don't have a Did John Cronin call
you right away and tell you how much it would be? I'm sure, but I don't have the number off the top of my head. Um I want to say it's five. Hold on. So, chapter 90, we went from 480 to 880, I think. Yeah, I thought it was about 500,000
additional off the top of my head. Was it a little shy? Yeah, I don't think it was. And then, um, state aid net total um there there's about $230,000
in additional state aid total um across various sources and deducting from the different adjustments. Some some things go up, some things go down, but 230,000 roughly. Um, no plans yet on whether or how to distribute that, if it's
distributed at all. Um, what else? That's the plans is the is the Nashoba. You said there is no plan on how to distribute that. Distributing the extra state aid.
Well, it was the five million. You mean the 5 million? No, I'm not talking about the Nshoba money. No, the Nshoba money uh the 5 million is split between 13 communities. Um and
uh the fire chief went to a presentation um last week, maybe this Monday. Um this Monday, and they don't know other than that DPH will be administering the funds, they don't know any particulars on what allowable expenditures will be.
um or whether or not this funding can be firmly relied upon in the future. So there was some level of oral commitment made um by the governor that that until unless and until a facility is
constructed that we can expect similar funding in future years. Um but without something more firm, I would be hesitant to put anything like staff on with those funds. Um so but certainly other areas that are
more one-time in nature until we see um would be possible but it also very early because we don't know what the rules are going to be from DPH. they they're getting the money and they're going to administer it however they're going to administer it to the So I just want to pause this this 5
million that was re was designated to these 13 communities are actually going to live within a state agency. No kind of like the millionaire tax that you know they hold the purse strings and
once in a while we get a little bit. So just like a legislative earark. So we get legislative ear marks all the time from the state budget. They go from there. They don't come directly to the town of Ludenberg. They go from there to one of the state agencies and then the
state agencies are responsible for entering into contracts with the communities and administering the money. So it's similar in that respect. It's very normal for the funds to go to a state agency for then tracking and monitoring. What we don't know is what the rules around those funds are going
to look like, right? So, it's almost potentially be like a grant program potentially, but we don't know like the millionaire's tax money that they've been sitting on it for two two three years. Well, I think it's I think it's expected that it's going to be No, this is going to be expected to be a pretty quick pass
through of DPH. Um, but they just need a mechanism from for it to get from the state to the municipalities and that's through one of just road miles and one has a bunch of other factors included in in it um such
as uh employment in the community and and things of that nature. So it's based it's distributed across the formula So has any dis I mean we don't know is any discussion on what that money will be used for or if anything you said we
might not use it. I know we that's how we said it. I was talking about state aid the not the chapter 90 chapter 90 money the additional money we're we're going to see right well additional chapter so additional chapter 90 would be for roads or road related projects right so um
and we have our pavement management plan which we're going to be following but we also have some costs um associated with flatill road bridge um that might be increasing so it's potential that could be used for that could be used for a
piece of equipment, but nothing's been decided yet with that. And we still have over $2 million. We have a lot of chapter 90. Don't say that. Don't say that. Okay. We have a a nice reserve so that we can get some big projects done. Yeah.
Don't say what? Don't say we have a lot of money. A lot of chapter 90 money. I mean, a lot of communities considered a lot. No, a lot of communities fully expend their chapter 90 every year. Unless Unless you're saving for a big project, you usually expend your chapter 90. Can I put my driveway in?
No. It's going all to the the level eight roads that we have here in Lunberg, Massachusetts. I don't know. I hit a pothole the other day and I was upset. Not in Lunberg.
Okay. Well, that's exciting news. Yeah. Good to see funding coming in. Yes. And not being cut. So, great. Any any other good news or bad news or financial related news? Financial related. No. Okay.
But I don't My executive assistant that I had an offer out to today said no, they're going to stay in the community that they're in. So that's a bummer for me. Not the right fit. Then are you back to Spirit One or you Well, you you have other candidates or
little bit of both. Just more time. So, Anna, we might take you up on answering that phone. I think I think you should. You're really good at that. Monday and Tuesday, I can be here from 8 to whenever you want, just taking calls.
I'm happy to help. You think that's all an executive assistant does? No, but she was in my office and she was bombarded. But I was meeting with her this week and within a half hour we had to stop the meeting more than a half a dozen times
for her to answer the phone. So if we can get someone to just do that, take a bunch of, you know, messages for her. Yeah. That way we don't have to worry about too many other things. I mean, EAS are probably one of the most undervalued
jobs that you can have. It's glue that holds your life together and whoever they're managing's life together. So, better to have someone that's going to be fully committed to it than feel like they don't want to, you know, wishy-washy. So,
everything happens for a reason. Okay. So, next up was uh town finance policies review and discussion. Um, the way we had talked about doing it was taking the first half of it and having the finance committee kind of review it.
I had sent Jen an email late last week maybe on um perhaps what she should do is kind of just go section by section, see if she has any highlights, concerns and then we could relay concerns or discussion points and
then that could kind of be our feedback into the into the process. I read the entire thing and I have notes. I'm sure like Well, I have I read into the first path that you told us to and I have a lot of notes. Okay. So, I don't know like that's what I
thought our job was you asked us to do. Yep. So, the the the question was just how to get that feedback back into into Jen. That was what I was just referring to. Yeah. So, um we took this PDF and converted it to Word and it was a bad
conversion. So, I've reached back out to DLS to see I have the March version of their word doc, but I not don't have in any of the emails the June version. So, I reached out to see if I could get the June version. I think that will be the easiest way with on the actual word doc
with track changes or comments in the margin or whatever. I think then we capturing everything together. Okay. I don't know. Are we allowed to do that? It's kind of like deliberating. No, no, no. If you're if you're bringing that back to here and these are the
finance committee's comments as a you you're allowed to on your own version mark it up however you want but then at some point when you get the consensus of the body to mark that up on a okay how would we remain consistent with the
bylaws if Anna wanted to submit her questions to town manager like should she do that as an open forum to an email to you to an email to everybody like how does that work? Like say she has questions or do we have to do it here and comp compose it together?
My thought was that we could go through it and if there are questions or just general discussion on things go section by section um you know with town manager here to be able to answer questions if there were. right now. Yeah, right now.
Um, so the conversation that I had with the town manager this week was we landed on this document. Um, but it started because on our tribe board meeting, Ezekiel and I were working on a
financial best practices that we talked about it and we came up with a three-page document and Jen very wisely said, um, let's see what's in this document. that it is from here and merge those
thoughts um merge both things because I from what I understood this is their draft but it doesn't mean that we can't have or have additional policies related to to financial
management policies that's what I understood so my reading on this I already started making notes from what Ezekiel and I had come up as as concerns um that we would like to be really spelled out on a
policy. And when I was reading I I took it into consideration things that I know about our current practices and you know and there's actually our bylaws are very they are not very they're very high level policies. They're usually like one
or two sentences related to a topics. Not most policies are like that. Yeah. Well, this is and not practices and procedures, right? Right. Well, they're very high level and then this is a more defined within the confines of the bylaws and charter.
So anyway, so yeah. So the best practices and policies for financial management that you and Ezekiel put together. Th this is practices and procedures. Okay. This was what document that Ezekiel and I worked from the tri board feedback that we got.
Okay. And I said, "We'll come up with something." And then when Jen saw it, she's like, "I think this is something that would live well in Kier, right? Because some of the things that we talked about it can be additional
sections of this document and some others we can just reinforce certain points. So who So when you did this with Ezekiel, are you going to be implementing that with Ezekiel town manager? Are we going to be able to look at those policies and practices to see if we agree with it?
Like, how does this work? All baked into this. It's going to be all baked into this. So, we're going to talk about this and this together. And then so so you can see this as my feedback and likely Ezekiel's feedback. Okay. So, we want to make modifications or we see there if if like I say, Tom
says, Jean says, Chris says, you know, this policy, you know, doesn't really maybe not work here or maybe we should make that more granular or less granular. We will have that option as the finance committee to make changes to these best practices or implement.
So the finance committee, good question. The finance committee um can make recommendations. Yes. Okay. Um the final adoption of these documents um and I would even argue only the front portion of them um is by the select board.
Okay. uh the procedural documents was really a management decision but I would imagine in practicality the select board is going to adopt the entirety of these policies and procedures as one document eventually. So it's your feedback is being
directed to the select board for final incorporation. So would this be something that would be a tri board meeting discussion in its entirety so that everyone's like hearing it what we're thinking but you know we're just going to put a document in front of the select board without talking about it. Um,
you know, when you're having a conversation about it's different. You're kind of explaining why you're recommending these things. Um, it seems a little bit more transparent uh to have the conversation al together. I don't know if the school committee has to be there or we should do this at a select
board meeting or whatever. I I think the way we historically have done this is finance committee on financial related policies makes their recommendations in conjunction with the town manager and then um ultimately they go to the select
board for for approval. So I I don't I don't think I want to set up another kind of multi-board body for policies. I think what we want to do is review them as DLS, put them together with Heather.
We'll get, you know, Jen's feedback with us. We'll vote on it and then send it to select board for their Okay. for their vote. Um, one thing I'll add, Chris, I I talked with uh I I had a phone conversation with Tony Kenbr this
week, which is the chair of the school, and I we were just talking about different things and um and I told him that this document exists and that I think this document would be once it's
in its final version um from everybody that we're talking about, you know, I suggested them to take it upon the school committee and and to you know get their buy in so that we are all following the same policies and
procedures and he thought that was a very good idea because you know why would we all be following the best practices and policies um so once we have Jen once we have the final document Donis Colbr said that he would bring it
up with uh the superintendent and have their business manager review And why would we all you know? Excellent. Just it's not that they are approving but they they are saying yes this should be our practices as well. Excellent.
We keep we keep interchanging policy and practice though. A policy is is a rule. This has a practice. This has policies. Okay. This has both. I mean that's the thing. We don't we've never seen it so we can't look at it. We can't decide what we what we're looking at. Is it possible to have it given to us so we can look at it? Like
you have this you have it. Not that I don't have that. No, this this is this is this is my working document. This is the document for that. Right. But can we also get a copy of that what you put together so that we I mean at a meeting I don't want to be looking
at like a five-page document and making suggestions one by one for five hours. I'd like to look at it and like c like the same thing you did as far as compare it to this here is my feedback typed up. Yeah. Okay. I can I can Oh, you and Ezekiel's Yeah. We worked together on a document
because you know we're exchanging ideas and all. Yep. So this is a work document like a work product. So business and finance got together and just you know worked on a document but it would be good to see it prior so we can look at it. All right. But I don't I don't want to get into the practices. My goal is to do
the policies. Yeah. Okay. Ivana has notes that are relevant to it. Let's bring them up as we go and we'll we'll deal with it. I think there can be all sorts of best practices that we work collaboratively with with a lot of
folks, but I do want to get to a point where we get this off our plate um prior to entering into the heavy heavy budget season. Right, Mr. Chairman? I know I don't have a lot of feedback, but if you just want to start going through them. Yeah.
Um the annual audit would be the first one. Okay. Um so on here uh the only comment that I have on the annual audit is that for under uh section A auditor selection.
This policy requires that we go out for a competitive process for an auditor. Um the while it is absolutely best practice that every six years we
are changing at least auditing teams for various reasons. It's not always practical that we change entire auditing firms. But more importantly, there are times that we may want to choose to not
use a competitive process to select who our auditor is. So, um, like I could say right now who I would pick for an auditor based on auditors that are operating in this
space in Massachusetts who I would feel most comfortable with um, with the quality of their work product. And that's without a competitive process. There's basically three that are running in the space right now. That's the reality. Um there was some major
consolidations within auditing firms. I think folks might have heard that about Powers in Sullivan got eaten by Markham and then Markham got eaten by a bigger conglomerate. So, um, there's not a lot of folks operating in this space and requiring us to use whoever the lowest
qualified bidder is doesn't necessarily achieve the best results. That% my question for that wasn't isn't that a 30B requirement? It's not. No, this is exempt from 30B has a whole host of exemptions, right?
And who uh our auditor is is specifically exempted from 30B. Okay. So, are you This says six-year intervals. Did you say one year? No, no, no. It I I didn't say changing the sixyear. Um it's it's the will solicit
if it so it's almost saying if in the best it's almost like if you put in just a clause after that if in the best interest of the town or okay something to that effect that it's yes if it's if it if at that time based on what the the potential vendors are in
the field if it's in the best interest of the time that we use a um a competitive solicitation then that's what we should do. But if it's not in the best interest of the town, maybe we should document why we've started. We could say that we can
document why we're foregoing using a competitive bid process, but we should at least be evaluating every six years um our auditor and changing the auditing team if we're not changing companies. So my comment on
that I I think the striking if it's um the lowest qualified bidder if that's can just be strike I think we should strike it just not make it part of the policy it's the we'll solicit competitive bids right and and the the one part to that
I'm not you but we're always thinking of the worst case scenario if there is a compliancy comp complacency within the town department and we're having the same enabling auditors. We do want to change,
you know, like Enron was outed and actually an auditing firm went out of business because of Enron. Um, so I and that's exactly why I don't want to have to use a competitive bid process. Right. And I'm saying because we might want to change,
right? And so I'm saying take I take that but I do think we do need to go out and get a different firm as much as possible every so often. So that's what so yes that's what I'm saying about the consolidation in this
area is that may not be reasonable. Sure. Um, so but at least we need to be get we have to at minimum I would say this policy should state that if we are sticking with the same firm after a six-year period that we're at least switching teams within that firm so that
it's a new set of eyes that are looking at our that's that's a best practice to be at least swapping out if you can't swap out the whole firm. So that's the last sentence basically right to rotate. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Maybe the contract will be awarded to the most qualified candidate in that
firm or or something like that wording. Well, we they they assign okay who it is. I mean, I see your point. I've seen towns that have had the same firms for many many many many years, way past six years, because they work for them and they do switch um auditors within that town. I've also seen towns that have
been forced to switch auditors after a certain amount of years and they get a bomb auditor and it just wrecks the town for that many years. So, it's almost like a presidency of good or bad, a good or bad. Um, so give us the leeway to make that decision. That's right. Is that you want to have
the flexibility to decide if it is at the time at the six-year mark, is it in the best interest of the town to enter into a competitive process? And just because you don't enter into a competitive bid process doesn't mean you're not switching firms. Right. That's right.
Right. So, so, so you don't need if you did say let's go out and see what the market would who we can get. You don't have to do RFPs. Is that what you said that? Okay. So, you could do but you could let's say go I like these six firms. Um, these firms are ones have
good reps. You could send them could you you know we have an offer provide a quote. Yep. Send them a an offer. uh you know, basically we'd like you to submit a a bid. Um I would say that having
the having an auditor that's been around for years, the great thing is they know where the bathrooms are. They know and you know them. You don't have to go through the stuff again from three years ago. I get all that. That's all wonderful. That's and that saves your staff and yourself a lot of time. So I
totally get that. I've been on that side of the auditing thing and when the new auditors come in, you got to deal with all that stuff. However, if they look at this is the seventh time they've done an audit on that thing, how good is it going to be? Right?
So, to me, that has to be weighed equally. You know, you have to say, "Yeah, these people are still good, but also if I get a new audit, that's a lot more work for me and my staff." Well, that's exactly why at minimum every six years if you're not changing firms,
you're changing the team. So, it is that new be sooner. Does it like what if these stink in two years? Oh, no. It could be. It's just saying that you cannot have the same team come in year seven, right? Um the other thing that I I had
it as a note is is instead of doing six years to change it to five and make it so that is on ears ending five and zero similar to a bylaw so it's easier to track. We usually do contracts in municipal for three years.
Um there's it's very like threeyear is so with to do a five-year contract you actually have to go to town meeting for that purpose and get a vote to authorize five-year contracts. So so I'm not talking about the contract.
I'm just talking about you know that's why I think I'm guessing that that's why the numbers So you do three and then you do two. Um I my thing is we just had a bunch of many employees switch around in town. I don't think we can say like there's a
lot of information that gets lost. So if we pick these multiples that are easy to track you know if we say every year ending in five or zero we are going to go through this process. We know that's how it is versus you know you're here you do one
year we don't know the next person comes we don't know when that was done last. just as a way to not to build it into the process, a way to know how to do it. But you're saying standard practice. I mean, to that point, right? Like I
walked into my last job and I said, "Who is our auditor? How long have they been here?" I heard how long they've been here. And I said, "When's the last time the team was changed?" And then I told the accountant, "You're changing the team next year." That's something that you, yes, there is turnover, but that is
that's baked into this job that you should be expected to walk in and say, "Who's the auditor? When's the last audit? I've already had multiple conversations with the uh finance director about his satisfaction with our current firm." Um, so I mean that's
if three is a standard, you should stick to three. I think people coming in can this is something that you should know in this role. I don't I mean I know that we're trying to put guards around it but I I you know we I don't want to make this meeting long. That's a suggestion.
Um and it's beyond you what you should know is about us also know knowing that being able to ask and when I say us I mean the citizens that are going to be sitting here this is not a hill I'm going to die on it but
I think the same could be said for your position on it. Like why not? But let's move on. Um, that's all I had to say. It's really Why not is because three-year contracts are common and six years is pretty much an industry standard. That's Sure. So, is there anything under that that
we're currently not doing now under that that under auditing? No. Um, on the next page, page four, there were a lot of links that don't work that this document that doesn't work. the
annual external audits on link does not work and as a recommendation for practices having my suggestion is for all this is a link to a lot of practices
uh sometimes forms it is never a good idea to have outside links baked into documents I would say either we replicate that internally if that's possible without infringing on upon intellectual property or you know we
make it them as part of in you know as part of the policy the print out of it in case these links stop the link works we just I'm sorry yeah it just worked for me um but also that could be a practice of an executive assistant to the town manager to check links or the communications team here if you have one
I'm not sure how that works to go through these um documents and just make sure their links are up to date that's just common I think that's common um in government work that periodically, usually monthly. I know we check all our links monthly. Um because they do end
up, you know, getting glitches and not working. Okay. Um Jay or Mike, do you I know you're probably driving and hopefully aren't reading anything, but any comments related to this section?
They're on Zoom. Is he up there? Are they up there? No, they're not there. I don't see him there. Hello. Hi. Can you hear me? Yep, we can. Um, no. I just had the same thing regarding the the time frame on, you
know, the three years, six year and changing the team after so much time. I think that would be a good a good practice. I just clicked. Did you Which document are you on? H4.
Like what we were just reading. Okay. Anything else or and I'll just open it to anyone Dave if you want to weigh in on the policies. All right. annual budget process. I don't think we have anything to do with
this, so we can probably So, Jen, do you want to give a quick synopsis of the Yeah, I I think that this really follows um just a general best practice of what we do as well as our calendar. Um but I
think that we need to bring in some of the specifics that we have from our bylaws. um about the February date under section C for the budget calendar, a cookie or something and all the specificity of the bylaws
should come in. Um see what was what was the February dating? It's the um the town manager presents the preliminary budget in February. Um, that's in our it's in our current
bylaws. [Music] We want to change the date just sooner. No, we just want to pull that into this that that language. Pull that into here. Okay. So that if somebody only has to look in one spot. Yep.
Um um the other thing is for budget monitoring. Um the finance director, there's a typo here. Finance director, finance director, town accountant. Um we'll continually monitor the budget and provide regular formal reports. I don't
love the word regular. Um, quarterly, monthly, what would be the preference? Quarterly. Quarterly. My my suggestion was quarterly. You were in E. Is that what you
Yeah. E? I think that's what we used usually do. Yep. That's what we're currently doing is quarterly. I think I have so historically in the past prior to Ezekiel everything was just told to us. I think reports
have to be a report like it needs to be physical documentation. Yeah. Okay. Like quarterly formal reports formal written. I think it needs to be written. Yeah. Okay. And um so this does codify that we would
have the five-year budget forecast at all times um every year. Um I guess the only other thing is um on seven
D the second paragraph it says um as a model for the budget document the town manager will use the standards established by the GFOA in its which is the government finance officers association and its distinguished budget presentation program.
That's probably not realistic without first funding um a consultant to have assist the town with doing a GFOA budget. Um it's a substantial amount of work to get one off the ground. Um and
consultants charge between $50 and $100,000 to do that work. So, I think it's just important noting that um I think it's fine to say use the GFOA principles, but I think that it's
putting a um unrealistic expectation out there. Have we or you ever gone for a distinguished budget award? Yep. Did you achieve it? Uh with a consultant, we did. So, we used um the community compact best
practices grant just like this one um to hire uh the UMass Boston Collins Center to do the GFOA budget the first time and then they gave us all the template and models and worked with the town. It took us about 6 months to a year to get it
done the first one. I mean, it's an awesome process. It really links it takes the budget away from being just numbers on a page and connects whether it's the overarching
um policy direction of the community or that particular department but it's you know takes the goals that we're striving for and ties them directly to the budgetary asks. What's the grant cycle for community compact? Yeah,
they haven't announced their date yet. Um, it changes. It should be soonish. They run out of money as soon as basically it's a rolling cycle. Um, and they expend it all immediately. You pretty much have to
have your grant done before you apply. Um, I would say I would be hesitant to apply for a GFOA this round based on everything that's going on, but once we have some other things buttoned up, I think that next year if we want to look
at doing that would be completely reasonable. I think we should strive for that via the policy. But are you saying it's it's ma this is mandating it? Yeah. I I didn't read as it was mandating. I read as a model for the
budget document established which means you're making a GFOA budget. Yep. Yeah. I mean, I guess I'm okay with having it in there and, you know, I think it's a good thing to strive for actually because I feel like with I never knew this
existed, this checklist or mandatory items and I I feel like the six years I've been on FINCOM, we've been striving towards trying to get to something like this. Absolutely. But I'm telling you right now, if you tell me I will use this, I'm
telling you it is not possible without a grant. So that's what I'm cautioning around. The language is says the town manager will use. Can we put some language in there centered around you will use it once a
grant is then going forward? No, that would be in a policy document. um will strive to will endeavor like just will in to the to the amount
practicable. Um well I think so I read it you know we'll use the standards established and then you stop on that you know and it's distinguished budget presentation period
then if you just start the next sentence with the budget documentation and presentation we incorporate narrative information on the town department organizational goals plans and resource I don't know like I didn't read that that next sentence
was necessarily part of although it is in the same paragraph. I think if we just break it make it that the budget documentation will incorporate narrative information. If if we're trying to make this something that's best practices universally accepted I'm going to pick
up I'm looking at Lunenburgg. I'm going to look at this document. I'm going to say oh Lunenburgg has a GFOA budget. Let me see it. That tells me that we have one. The only thing I these things are like this is this is literally this thick. So what's your recommendation for until
now? My recommendation model for now is to sorry Mr. Chairman, but is to strike that entire second paragraph unless and until it becomes a reality. So you're saying it's too big of a bite of the apple that we can't handle right now. Your staff can't handle. It's
just not there. Absolutely not. And we're saying we like it, so we should make it a a goal that we should go after. So if we I I mean it could be I mean, who would make that decision when we're ready?
Would that be you or would that be the select committee? Who would you I mean, so the application um for community compact best practices, I think it's actually the chair of the select board that has to sign those applications. in reality, um, they're not likely going to be applying for them
or getting the quotes for them. So, it's really when we're ready to put it forward. Um, can can I make a suggestion? If you strike only that first sentence where it talks about GFOA
and just leave it, you know, the budget presentation will incorporate narrative information on town department. I don't think we should strike the whole thing, but just that first sentence. what we're doing now. Huh? It's already not what we're doing now.
This is so this is new, right? And that's that has I think it's the root of our problems. I think that's why we have sixhour meetings. What I am saying is that we have a tri board process that we're going through that people are already
very much involved in that that we are leading up to May special Maytown meeting and I don't think that we can take on this right now and get it over the finish line even if we have the grant funding.
I think a policy document can say something that's in the future by 2028 by fiscal year 28 as a model for budget the town. I think you can't rely on grant funds. I think if you want to say that we will as
we will support a capital request that we will pay for that consultant with or without grant funds to get that thing started. I think then you can say something like that. I think relying on a grant and saying we will do something by date certain if you're not if you're
not committing the funds. Yeah, I I disagree. I I think this will set a priority for the town to make sure that it's it's going to happen. So, I agree with you, but I also agree with you. But I think instead of striking it out, there should be language put in that when town manager
like we don't want to do something that's not going to be accepted, that's not going to generate anything. we want maybe keep the language in but use the town manager as the person making the decision of if we're ready to move on with this. I think and respectfully here I think
that you know I was asked whether or not I've been through this process before and my response to that question was yes I have and I remember that undertaking. I remember how big the team was that did that project. I remember how long it
took to do that project. I know what that project is like. What I am telling you is if we do this right now, we're not going to have a good result. Right. Definitely not. Agreed. So, could you do it something like maybe
the with the select board with your advice, the advice of town manager? saying would would implement this at a future date just to keep it on the table of something. So I think if we just say we'll strive to use like
messed up like yeah like yes I I will tell you I'm a contractor. When I hear strive to use delete it I'm not doing it. It costs money. Well at this point what I'm saying is I'm not doing this. It costs money. Yeah,
I know. But the problem we have in town is we have five-hour meetings because we have the undistinguished budget presentations, right? It's ad hoc. Everyone's using different forms. There's a reason why the consultants to get these off the ground charge what they do because it is incredible amount
of work. This is not just work at my level. This is work when you have departments. So, I'll I'll say this right now. Now I am going through a process with all the department heads sitting down having taken the select board goals and objectives, the town manager's goals and objectives and now I'm bringing those goals and objectives
to department heads. Okay, you would expect that that happens every year of the department heads who have asked, they have never had goals and objectives set for them for the fiscal year, right? Okay. So, if we have a goals-based budget and we have departments who
haven't even ever had goals and objectives setting before, literally right now, that is a huge lift without support. We don't even have budget presentation operations and procedures yet. So, we
definitely can't do this. Um, I would love to do a GFOA tomorrow. I think they're marvelous. Actually, in my last community, I thought we were ready and I was screaming at finance committee because they were holding me back. They said, "The accountant isn't she can't do this." And I'm like, "It's not the
accountant that needs to do it. It's the consultant. She'll be fine." And and so it's I wanted a GFOA budget very badly because I felt like we were ready to do it there. We're not ready to do it here. Would this include the school committee budget, too?
Okay. It what? Yes, it does. The GFOA includes the school budget. Good luck. Well, I'll tell you right now, I just I spoke to um someone in the town of Arlington and their procedures and policies are crisp and they just got
this in 2023. um they did not feel comfortable bringing it to any type of level until then and they have they have it it's very much tighter than our policies, procedures, our organization, our
department um things. So it takes a while to put it together to have it be successful. Um, I mean, we can strike it, but I would like to revisit it yearly, maybe at this type of setting to see where what you say where we are to
add it back in. That's why I'm saying if we we leave it there so it's not lost to time with just some qualifier language as as reasonably practical. Use best efforts to um Yeah. How about we can complain two years? Why don't we have against So, we can be
sitting here in two years going, "Why haven't we started this yet?" Right. Yes. Right. Okay. I agree with that. Just change the language up a little bit. I I mean I agree with that and
um I do think we should add some expectation of budget documentation presentation for until then. So you know we get a we are trying to create standards. I understand I
understand everything you said. Don't disagree with what was just sort of agreed upon, but I do think we should have um some information here, you know, and I would add what's not in in this part of the document that I remember
reading on the presentation is, you know, and support and data supporting the presentations because I'm always, you know, I I actually don't care for pretty presentations. I care for the data behind it. So if we could add
language of what what actually we will be doing and which includes supporting data um that would be my feedback on that conversation. Okay. Any other comments in this area? Well, I mean we were going through her
comments. Do you have any other comments on this? Okay. Um the on B principles for balanced and uh sustainable budgets. Um
the number four all department's budget we prepare be prepared to reflect the full cost of providing services and lists proposed prior actual allocations of full-time u equivalent
employees. I think that that needs to be expanded a little bit to be more specific. Um because this is data point that we it's really hard to get and and you know full-time tracking method. So I I just
say would where am I? I'm sorry. Where are you? Uh B principles for balance sustainable breakfast. Yeah. B number four. I I would like that language expanded so that we are doing full-time like we are really creating
matrix for uh full-time employee tracking um during the budget process. Um the other thing that I read was number three of that section two at the direction of the town manager each
officer elected board committee and department authorized to charge a fee for service will review the fee schedule every year and propose increases when necessary to ensure the coverage of service cost. Um, I think that what I
read that saying is the town manager will direct elected officials to increase fees when they they seem necessary. That would be telling the library to increase fees. That would be telling the parks commission to increase
fees. And I think that's taking away from the chartered role of these boards and committee. So I don't agree with three at all. um as a um so
um any comments on that? Well, it doesn't say they're going to increase just review the feast schedules. Yeah, that means it's directing I I see the problem. It's direct. It's forcing the review. It's the directing of the review. Um but I my guess is that the intent though is that it's just somebody
saying, "Hey, every year, right, like reminder, check it out." So, do they do that now? I know they don't do an annual review. No. Um well, some boards do. What if we just say um annually,
the town manager shall send notification asking like sure, you know, soften it that it's not a direction. Yeah. Because I mean that'll be like telling the cemetery commission to charge more. It's just it gets icky
pretty. So instead of just a direction, just to be clear, so maybe it's July 1st, we say as a reminder, we all boards, committees, commissions, and departments are encouraged to look at their fees. This is your annual reminder. You should conduct the following analysis to see if there's
still d and if they do, they do. If they don't, they don't, right? You know, as a because yeah, I think that that does it. I think during the budgeting when the departments came in and said, "Hey, we need this money xyz." I think some of us were like, "Well, you might have to
charge for this." Like the Council on Aging, you may have to charge $2 for the bingo. I don't even know. I I don't know. But that's not the boards and commission. And some of these fees are under the elected officials. So So it would be like a recommendation like, "Hey, we can't give you this
money. You might the recommendation is maybe you have to charge for more of your whatever." Like it could be a recommendation. You can't force them to put their fees up, but then you you can't give them if they're asking for money more money than we have, give it to them. So,
I like I like the change in the language and I think we already kind of do that when they present their budgets a little bit. It's that there's no system to regularly review fees. So, you know, let's just take ambulance fees for example,
okay? Um, so they were last increased, I want to say last November or December, but say the chief retires and we get a changeover and it's four years down the road and somebody says, "Hey, have you looked at your ambulance
fees?" Oh geez, I don't know. So, we it is something that you want to at least be looking at every year to make sure that we are something like that that you're staying in market um that you haven't dropped below all what everybody else is charging and what insurance companies are reimbursing, but um that you're at
least looking at it every year to see if a fee is warranted. Yeah, I think that's good language. Um, and then on four, Anna, um, are you were you recommending that we do more than the prior year back?
No. Okay. I I'm just So, what's the recommendation there? What's the question? The recommendation was to expand to make it more specific because that was one of the concerns that Ezekiel and I had talked about it and
you know making sure that is a full-time equivalent employee tracking method that we are being you know it's part of the process versus just you know oh we're going to spend $60 million in staff just
so just expand on that and to be a little more specific. So like line items on there, presentations. I it's my suggestion to be expanded. Um and I'll leave it to the town manager and Ezekiel. That's something to for the suggestion. I think Ezekiel that was something that Ezekiel was of concern
too. Yeah, I agree. That's all. That may be one way to do it. Um the under budget document documentation and presentation one thing and this is Chris something I
was going to um it does talk about the town manager preparing a a budget message and and that's something that the fincom has had has done it in the past and I think that's on on our we it's part of
the town meeting warrant so and I actually think that's part of the charter or two things getting um mixed. So the town manager presents a budget message and um the finance committee presents a budget
um recommendation is that the it's a report report or report. Yeah. I I just want to make sure like the just so call it out the uh normal nomenclature is that a town manager and I didn't deliver a budget message this
year. I only did the budget but a normal nomenclature would be that the town manager whoever's budget it is presents both a budget and what's called a budget message. Okay. Um and also under budget documentation I do believe is in our chart and not in
our bylaws. It does call out for the school committee to to present data justifying or explaining. So there is something in our charter or bylaw related to the school committee presenting their data or their budget.
So I just want to bring that up. Um under budget I think there's also mass general law that if we ask for something we are to be given it. We do not need to make a budget, you know, a uh um
I know you're going to miss me. What's the formal request for information? We are entitled to that information. I'm I'm not disagreeing. I I I just made a note that there is something on the charter and this um and in here where it says you know
internal references when they listed the internal references they didn't list that uh the school committee charge under that section. So I wanted to bring that up. Um under bud
budgeting monitoring uh it says finance director finance director and Tom accountant on the very first line. Um and hyperlinks to outside sources. Most of the time they were
tealicized but here under the G g FA it's not. Um and the one thing that I would recommend to be specific about under the budget monitoring is G is the FTE reconciliation
and monitoring to just also be very specific. So that's under E budget monitoring you know expand on FTE monitoring and um is that in
would that really go in this section though? This is about yeah because we have not because on budget uh the principles of for balance to sustainable budget it is talked about full-time equivalent employees
and that's then when monitoring you also monitor things that you set as a principle um and I did have a couple links that were bad for me but I don't know I just recommend people to be
clicking on those links. So those are my comments on that. My point being though, shouldn't that be in financial operations, not financial planning? The monitoring would be in operations. Well, oh, the whole the whole monitoring section, pull it out of this policy or
No, no, no. I'm just saying we're in financial planning and the last statement that Anna made was about monitoring FTE throughout the year. That's not a financial planning. That's a financial operation. M they they have a section called budget
monitoring and it's on page seven of the document. It seems very short. So I'm just I'm confused what what you want added taken away or or or clarified here. Can I help?
Yes, please help me. Help me. So I think if we said something along the lines of after the first or at the conclusion of the first sentence after the word select board. So the finance
director will continue to monitor the budget and provide uh quarterly formal written reports to the town which will include um FTE monitoring or something like that. So include it which not a whole we don't need a lot but just say that the
memorializing the memorializing that the quarterly reporting will include a reconciliation of FTEES. Yeah. Um because it actually when you go on to the last sentence it says um you know it talks about corrective action and what happens and it says corrective actions
can include hiring freezes, expenditure reductions, layoffs or use of contingency funds. So I can see it playing in there. Yeah. So you want this just more specified to FTEES added the FTE component in there. That's what I heard. Yeah, because the FTEES talked about it
on the budget part of this document is the number four of principles of B. All right. Any other in this section? and Mike or Jay if you have anything. All right. The next section is capital
planning. Uh do we have a five-year capital plan? No. Do we started pulling one together last year? I would say that we do not probably have one yet. And there's an older 10-year plan on the shelf that's probably some things probably in there
are still real and some things probably not. So the department does the department each year go well we're going to need like the police they say we're going to need uh this year we're going to need this this and this next year we think we're going to need that following year and you know
we know that maybe in five years it's less sharp but we have an idea. So, do we do that or police and fire have a pretty good one because they're very cyclical in the nature of their CPW is pretty good too. I don't think um schools and
facilities and schools facilities have not I've noticed that. Yeah. Right. Specifically facilities. And I know we've had the facilities people come in and out. Yeah. And one of the things is they got to figure out what exactly they have. And then maybe they maybe that's one of the
things that they should be doing is building a fiveyear plan so that we know that we're going to need a new heating system at XYZ in 2028. That's in the charter. I think that there's a need for a five five year plan.
Right. So I think yeah I think facilities is probably there we're probably at that point now right that we've had enough stability in the position where we can be at that point. Um I think with fiveyear plans what everybody does really well is saying in
year one and two we're going to be really reasonable with our requests and year four and five we're going to pile on the multi-million dollar projects. And so when you take all of those together to bake them into a true
five-year plan, that's where we fall apart a little bit and probably because you have okay million million half dollar plan, something reasonable. Okay, it was a $2 million request. We had to cut some and then you end up in year four or five, $7 million, $8 million.
Well, I think the other thing we have not done well on is the plan is not just requests. The plan should include how one would fund those requests, correct? Out for five and 10 years. And I think that's why we're in the situation we're in with, you know, our our non-exempt borrowing
is is dwindled down to almost nothing. You know, our So, I think a plan covers both sides of the equation. Let's make sure that that says that. That is a good point. I think there also has to be there's a
lot of projects on there that just need to be stricken off there. Like anything with the Brooks House, get rid of it. We're never going to do it. I think the other thing that you'll note in here when we talk about capital
financing the town will strive to appropriate 2 to 3% of its annual general fund budget to capital net of debt to capital investment allocations da so I think it's okay I'm just kind of marking it
there because it says strive to but what where were you again under um Page 11, E, capital Financing, the first sentence. Page 11 of the document or yeah, uh, numbered 11 on the bottom of the document. what it was
um capital financing that the town will strive to appropriate 2 to 3% of the annual general fund budget net of debt to capital investment allocations through funding derived from a combination of property taxes, free
cash, and special purpose purpose stabilization funds. I kind of the whole the whole sentence me as odd because it says general fund budget but then includes things that are not in the general fund budget.
Um, I think I think that we should I'd like to spend more time with actually this one and the debt management and free cash because all three of those play together and I I know I had some substantial issues with the free cash
aort like the way that it um mandates how free cash is aortioned and also um funding things within the operating budget for capital is Great, but it's very um
ambitious. I'll say it's great if you can do, but not realistic sometimes. Well, there was no maintenance cost or plans or projections associated with that spend. So, I agree with you. So, what's the recommendation on that? I
think really the re my recommendation I want to spend more time with these policies before these three particular the capital debt and free cash because they all play um capital and free cash. Okay. Capital debt and free cash and I have some uh so the capital planning
is strike to me as very differently than what we do currently. Um so for example the very last sentence of the policy the capital plan shall prepare a report for town manager to be included in the
annual annual budget process. All that they do now is the capital plan committee elaborates a priority report and and that becomes the recommendation to town town manager. Mhm.
There's a report that goes in the annual report. Yeah. Um the there is a report a capital plan report that goes it has everybody's rating but there's more than just that but it um and then the other thought I had was
that the capital plan does have some things on the charter. Um I would just this section Tujen my recommendation would be to speak with
members of of the current capital plan and Mary what's being said here with how they are doing and our charter um the policy guideline I think that's what
we were talking about the funding targets that usage Mhm. Um I think that's fairly new. You know, we haven't really done that. Um and with that they
they also have um so this is going back policy summary. It said any capital budget and usually I usually see those things as priorities but it ends up being a budget because that's what we fund.
um developed by the capital plan committee based on the departmental submissions. Again, that's usually done by the town manager like the capital plan has the re our current practice is the capital plan committee submits their
recommendation to you, right? Um then they have the priorit prioritization criteria. I don't think those criteria should be part of the policy. I I think there I would agree with you on that.
I I think becomes too restrictive. We have the committee that works and they talk it's it's an it's a very rich process that we go through. So I don't think we need this priorit prioritization criteria as part of the policy. it. All right.
I will say it is a it is a best. So maybe not maybe not in specific order. Um and maybe we can soften it to say like these elements should be considered and maybe not put a number on there and maybe not put a number but I will
say in general um this list is very standardized. I agree. which I agree but here it's saying in descending order right yeah right right you know so I would strike that and remove the numbers and just say these are the
criterias yeah um I agree on the policy guidance aside from the overall spending and all that there was you know there was was it in here
about $100,000 What should be um maybe it's not here. A capital plan. Oh, debt. Debt usage. Uh
no, it wasn't usage. It might be. Okay. It's going to be on the next section actually. Um the capital asset inventory. um is to support the systematic acquisition replacement schedule. The
capital plan committee with assistance from the finance director will annually update and maintain detail inventory. The capital plan committee has no way of doing that. So I I I would say just strike that from where are you? Where are you? Um 10.
I am on B. That's in our charter. Capital asset inventory. Yep. Town manager is supposed to provide the capital planning committee, right? But that's not what it's saying here. Says the CPC is going to do it. Will create. So I think what you said is
correct, but I I don't think it's the CPC will create that. I think the CPC will receive the report. So, you're saying the town manager with assistance from the CPC? So, you want to switch the two? I I don't think that I don't think they're
going to even have the data. I think it's all staff. Staff is going to report to the CPC. That's all I'm saying. Is that Isn't that what it says? We'll solicit capital project requests from department heads. No. No. I'm I'm on B Oh,
page 10. So, here's what I think we should do with that. We should align it to what's in the charter to begin with. But I do think it should we should get that capital asset inventory right I'm not disagreeing with that so just you know I'm just saying the capital plan committee doesn't have a way to generate maintain that I think is
the town the town employees will then turn around um then on C um I would say taking out those numbers again that we already um talked about it um the multi-year capital improvement
plan that section felt repetitive to me when I was reading maybe I was reading a lot but it can repetitive is not necessarily bad um the capital financing is the part that I wrote very different than current
practices but I think that's what you said you need to you know talk with um and on the last bullet of capital financing In accordance with Lunberg debt management policy, the town will
restrict long-term debt funding to projects with lifespan of 10 years and costs exceeding a 100,000. Um I lifespan greater will restrict long-term debt funding to projects. I I don't know
when that like I didn't I couldn't put it like knowing our capital plan I I I just want to know where this would apply. So I think it's just saying that if if a project is $75,000
we're not going to use long-term debt to fund that project. It's not saying the reverse though that it's not saying that you have to use debt if the project is over 100,000. Okay. It's just saying you can't use it if it's less. Gotcha. Okay, that's that's that's fine.
So, the funding of these of this polic was the one that I I Mhm. I I I I didn't think it's overall in terms of the funding and the next section of uh
uh that management. It it felt like yeah, if you're a Boston, you can do this. Exactly. But if you're a small town, you got to be a little more flexible with how you create some of these policies because it's really just going to take us out by our knee, not being able to do
anything. We'll have great capital projects and operations will be starving, right? So that was my overall feeling on those two pieces. Same. Okay. But I think the opposite has come true where operations has overtaken the
ability for us to take on debt. Well, I mean, we're seeing buildings fall apart and parks. Well, I mean, we have echo the capability to take on debt or something else because I think we have the financial means to take on the debt. I think that's more combination of
projects that people didn't really like once they got to the voters or other to borrow the money to do it and right increase everybody's taxes. That's like to Chris's point, the Brooks House. What? Correct.
seems like a bottleneck situation as opposed to a we've been involving I don't think we have I don't think we've managed debt is no we have not managed that debt happens
right and and we have had about close to $400,000 that went off of on the regular debt that just fell into operations operations without a beep And that's a terrible practice. Well, we're peeps.
We got overruled. I peeped. It was on my bullet. I said I was doing it. I I've been saying this I've been saying this for several years that that was happening. Yep, it was.
Okay. Do we want to move on to debt management? Um, sure. You go. I would prefer to skip over debt management and come back to it. Um can can I make a couple comments on that on before so you can take my notes
since since we're doing meetings um on long-term debt criteria costs exceeding 100,000 have at least 10 years of a use fallout. We have borrowed and I know this said long term
um but we have borrowed money to buy large pieces of equipment before and I know we have so I again I don't know if we should put 10 years there as you know especially when we use capital for buying
like when you say when you say large equipment do you mean like a big sixhe dump or something like that or a fire truck, a ladder truck. Well, those better last at least 10 years. That's right. I That's right. But so I wouldn't want a truck like a a pickup truck. Maybe not.
But no, right. My point on that was like I I don't see the use of that tenure. Those things are usually driven by, you know, useful life of the product. So if something costs a million dollars and have only five years, that's that's what
it is. You know, I don't think we need the years on this on this particular. It's usually there's other places that you check the useful life of something. Yeah. I think what they're trying to do is make sure that we're not paying for
on the debt, right? After the useful life is right. But there are other parts of the process that catches that including when you're taking out the bond, the banks, you mean? Right. Yeah. Um, good point. the the debt structure. I
hated this. I simply hate it. I I put an ax on next to everything except for the that service schedule may not exceed it to full life. Now I'm still on policy summary. Now I'm put
page 14. Um so there are three bullet points. I put an axe next to two. Um just the middle one is the one that made sense to me. um
under that financing they brought 10 years or useful life of you know I think it should just be useful life who's going to determine that there is standards in what are they and we need to put that in because I I I think I agree with if you're doing
long-term borrowing it I I think all of these things have pretty standard useful life that is you know good practice I wouldn't put something in a policy that may contradict with something you might want
to do in the future that you don't know what it is yet when useful life serves the So you're going to do 10 year borrowing on a one-year useful life. You wouldn't because that's you have useful life there. I'm not saying take
useful life. I'm saying don't insert 10 years on something that you don't know what it is. Um, is there a definition of long-term borrowing? I was wondering that earlier. In
in the private world there is. I don't know if there is. Um, there has to be some guideline if we're going to do useful life is what that is when they present it for funding. And then it has to be what I'm wondering is if they're using
um shortterm like uh inside borrowing and long-term is excluded debt. But I I agree that I I don't know what that means and I was I don't think it would be that because you can do
I would assume long-term borrowing is 10 years or greater and short-term is that is less. Not according to this polic because nothing should be longer than 10 years. Yeah. Can you look up if there's like a DLS definition of long-term debt?
Well, things like buildings and things like that have useful life of 20 and 30, 50 years. And there's a there's a clause here that takes those off excluding major buildings, land acquisition, other purposes in
accordance with the useful life schedule. the thing about 50% of we have a long-term borrowing somewhere about 50% uh of the principal paid in the first 10 years. We normally in the past my recolation is we if we're borrowing long
term even for for um buildings we're doing 20 years. Have we ever done 30 years? Yeah, we have. I I think the the latest the last high school was 30 years. I think it might have been longer even. Huh. It may have even been longer. I thought it was 30 years. It's in my
spreadsheet, but I can't. So, this this would say that if we had a 30-year uh borrowing, we'd have to pay the principal down to 50% of it within the first 10 years, which would be a heavier burden. It would defeat a lot of the
purpose of the longer ammonization. Right. Right. So maybe that is uh 50% within you know I don't know I don't know but 50% of the borrowing. No, no. Can we not put any like that's actually the
you're going out 30 years. You're doing it because you want to be able to afford it and also the life is going to be there and all the other things are fine. Yeah. If you're buy but if you got to pay 50% of the principal in 10 years that's kind of it's not it's not a it's not a uh a
fixed rate amortization because a limit a limit maturity clause here for the buildings which would be the school right on the third point bullet point limit maturities to no more than 10 years except for major buildings. No.
No. I mean, yeah. Right. No, but if you if you had a 20 year if you had a 30-yearization on a building and what this is saying is that you have to pay 50% of the principal dollars for the first 10 years. Yeah, the first one. But doesn't the third one kind of negate that?
I don't know. I think so. I think they're all they're all this or it doesn't say or. It says it's just the next bullet point. Yeah. So, to me, that would be something if
we're going to go out 30 years on on buildings, that might not be the wisest thing for us to do. So, maybe we should look at that. And yeah, and I I don't I don't have the, you know, the numbers and stuff, but figure
out what it is and see what other cities and towns have done because if this is kind of the best practice, I mean, it makes sense for a 20-year term, uh, but it doesn't make sense for longer terms. One of those references at the bottom actually starts to site mass law on how
long you can do certain types of borrowing based on its purpose. Where are you reading what one of those links? Yeah, I see it. Yeah, the useful life of things are usually very well defined within
It's not the useful life. It's just saying the type of borrowing. Yeah. acquisition of land, landscaping, dredging 30 years, 20 years, equipment, assets. Yeah. So, yeah, there there is something in there.
So, there's guidelines in there. There's guidelines in there. Well, there's law, right? Right. How do folks feel about um on B4 where there is the chart? Um it says as dictated by state statute, the town's
debt limit shall be 5% of its most recent equalized valuation and then it has five fiscal years of examples. Yeah, I had questions about that. Uh as dictated by state statute, I I don't I
couldn't figure out which state that was. Yeah. So we should get the reference when it says that, right? anytime you should have the reference, but like you should be like right after this one, right? Yeah. ML chapter, but I I don't Is that to me it seems weird having this chart in here
because it's illustrative, but it's not part of the policy and this is a policy. I I think this is might have been done for our benefit as we approve this and as an example. Okay. Um that's how I saw this like even historically they put it. Um but this is
a big really big change from um our I would be what I when I saw this what I wanted to do is to um Jonathan excluded percentage levy
Jonathan um to see the difference on how we are limiting ourselves between our current policy and their policy and their suggested policy because I think that would be different.
Um because again as a small town with not a large big budget, you know, things are going to look different for us than it would from a for a city that has a lot of more money.
Um and this policy that we have, we have found ways to operate within those confines. M you know like we've been making plans based on those confines switching this policy now with that you know how that affect our current you know different projects
they're in the you know even if they got approved they're not but we just should have that conversation of this is even within their numbers of these four years five years that are here how does those numbers look different for us
and and Um, what is the equalized valuation? That I believe that's not the sum total of all real property in town, is it? No, I think it has it's a I believe that
it is a factor that incorporates um income against taxation. I believe not positive but I believe it's a it's it's how to level out a comparison
between two communities but where are we that same right before that table oh that's a that's I don't know let's find what this actual statutory reference is
and go from there but I agree that if the policy is a major shift shift. we need to and we can use the spreadsheet that Chris created to see and then compare to this and you know maybe we just may one thing
I noticed is that they did so in the previous page Jen she explains that this policy use general fund budget as a basis for that service versus what Lunberg has been using as tax leav
um and then at the end she wrote Lunberg FY24 equals 64%. Do you know what she was talking about? 64% of what? Nope. Oh, maybe I think I know what it is.
Um, where are you, Anna? It's a footnote. The footnote on page 14. Um, I think Jen, if you look at percentage within the lab to general
fund budget, it says 6, but that's 6%, not 6%. This is not 6%. Oh, no, that's not it. Yeah, I don't know what that's Lunberg equals. Yeah, this whole
percent means and I wasn't sure. And then on the next um session section structure of term debt again number one I just strike that because that's what
Tom was talking about. Um my other comment was on that construction debt pay uh usage um two years for major construction project. Sometimes that's not
necessarily feasible. I know for example the primary building was there was a delay when they built more than 20 years ago. The new high school it was oh more than two years because they
started right after graduation on demolishing and getting everything. They actually it it was more than two years usage. It took more than two years to use that on major construction project. Is it the primary school? The primary school there was a delay and
the high school was over a two-year project because they had to demolish like there were several phases of that project. There were several borrowings as well. There was, but I I don't know if this is they're looking into
the different borrowings. I just again thinking of the circumstances that we know. I just know that that project was more than two years. That's insane. I feel like I'd take this too long for a project over two years for a project that assist with us.
Not going to and ask them to review it. Yes. Two years. Okay. Like not what DLS says, but you're the actual people that lend money to municipalities. What is your feedback on that? Would they would they do that for you? I feel like they might.
Okay. I feel like it's worth an ask, right? Yeah. Where um so the the last thing that I had on that section was disposition of surplus bonds proceeds.
I felt like I seen this when we on I feel like this might exist Um, I felt like this might exist somewhere
else in the world. I don't know if it was a charter or a bylaw or when we borrow language that's on the town meeting votes. So, I I wasn't sure about that
and that's all I had for that. All right. So, Jen, it seems like you're uncomfortable with this. You these couple. Yeah. So, I think we made progress on annual audit and annual budget process.
Capital planning. I think capital planning committee needs to weigh in on it and we can circle back after that one as well. Debt management. You want some more time on? Yep. All right. So, it's it's quarter nine.
Um, I've been up since 1:00 this morning. Oh, yes. You flew over the pond. Yes. Welcome to America. So, um, I This is going to take a while to get through. Yeah, we have a year. That's what we
gave ourselves. Okay. The year goal. I mean, I'd rather get it on and off, but no, I mean, that's it's it was one of our fiscal year goals for FY26. So, we got we got till June. So, it seems as though it's reasonable to
I'd like to finish it by like January maybe, but maybe some of these will be easier than others, but um seems like we can get through four or so a meeting. And I think when we get to the procedures, my guess is that like on the turnovers and tailings, there's not
we're going to go pretty fast on those, I think, is my guess. Okay. and what we discuss here on what we've already discussed aside from the ones that you want to maul over a little bit longer. Did we make any decisions on different language or changes or taking things out already?
You took notes on it. I took notes. My suggestion is we take the notes. We when we get the word doc we incorporate them and that there would be a formal vote at some point whether you want to do it at every meeting or just kind of at the end and just say okay this is our collective thoughts and let's ratify them.
Okay. But I think I heard where there were consensus and we can always change. Okay. Okay. All right. So that or will Jay and Mike any last comments? Okay.
Will um Ezekiel the town of town be weighing in on it? Will Ezekiel be weighing in on him? Yes. Okay. Yeah. You good, Mike? Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. All right. Thanks, Mike.
All right. So, the next item on the agenda was just upcoming tribard meetings. Um, human services, culture, recreation, health services, health insurance. Um just for
the culture and recreation has caused a little bit of confusion across the town because contrary to the name of the item, it doesn't actually include recreation. Correct. Um
recreation will be on September under facilities. Of course it will. So but culture and wreck does include what? Culture and Wreck includes the Council on Aging, an adult activity center, the library, and band.
Okay. Okay. I have a question on that. Um this is a question that I submitted earlier um not here that I had earlier. um can we possibly reach out to these
particular entities and request um some details on their community offerings to see where they're standing. And I think that can also help us with our parks and wreck on the future. Oh, I'm sorry. To better maximize um
and avoid duplication and maintain community benefit while generating revenue for the town on all levels. like is that something we can request for them to bring or we can talk about at the tri board meeting? Yes. And they are planning to um talk at
least of what they've talked about so far. So um to update everybody um I think heard loud and clear through the budget process particularly through this committee about u frustration rightfully
with duplication of efforts. Um and then we saw after hearing those uh frustrations the perfect example of like a very specific musical group which I think is called like crocodile river whatever and they were in the town of
Lunenburgg performing three times right like how many people listen to the crocodile river rock which I'm sure they're wonderful but you know maybe twice but not three. So, um, the recreation director, the, uh, council on
aging director, the library director, and the teen center director have been meeting for, I want to say yesterday was maybe their third or fourth meeting. I think it was their third. And they are they're starting, right, to talk about
and work together on co-promotion of some events cross kind of jurisdictions, doing some things together. And then also at the same time though talking about what types of programming really does make sense to keep three crochet
classes, right? Because we might have three co crochet classes because the crocheters are very unique demographics and they're going to stick with that demographic, but we shouldn't have three crocodile river bands. So they are expecting question. Have you ever heard them?
Yeah. you so you don't know. Um but they are anticipating questions around programming. They are anticipating having a dialogue um and they're preparing to talk about what programs they have and what programs um
they want to grow and how that's reflected in their budgets too. But yes, great. Yeah, communication that's kind of a big thing. I was actually at the library today and uh I just happened to be walking by and somebody said, "Oh,
we're getting ready to buy that projector screen for to move around, the mobile projector screen." I said, "Wait a minute. Wreck just said the other day that they there's interest in getting one of the outdoor blowup ones. Why don't you all just get them together? Buy one. Let's just buy one."
Um, human services, HR, what is that? No. What What are these definitions of these words? So, these words, the these terms came from that um oh gosh, uh the the uniform
accounting da da da that Ezekiel was training uh transitioning all of our account types to and that's where these came from. So, okay. Um okay, human services is uh board of health. Okay.
Um, I want to say veterans, disability. I feel like I have one more. Hold on one second. And she's gone. I think we need some clarity on definitions of what these words mean so we know exactly what we're walking into in these meetings because
in most cities and towns, human services encompasses human resources, council on aging, youth and family services, disability services, and veteran services. Those are the five major. Yeah, it is how they reorganized the budget. I got myself backwards. I got myself backwards. Hold on.
I lied to you all. Okay. Human services is board of health council on aging and veterans. Culture and recreation is banned. Library. Wait. Human services with was BO council
on agent agent and what? Veterans services. Okay. Culture and wreck band banned library historic. I'm so sorry. Health services. What's health services? Health and health services. It says human services and health services on the agenda, right?
Human Oh, it's health services is a subline. It's sport of health underneath human services. Yep. And then health insurance. So that'll be the other one that's presented. Okay. So I have questions for health
insurance. Um, I, you know, I'm new to this town, so I'm not privy to all the conversations that have happened in the past going over health insurance, and it seems like a huge cost to the town. Um, and I know that we have probably chosen
the best policy, the best company, but it would be good for me or others who maybe aren't don't want to ask questions or don't understand um like a comparative analysis of like three and what the
differences are between the three, what the costs are between the three, and why we chose the one we chose. And it could just be a quick like just this is this is what it is. This is what it costs. This is why we chose it. Um and so you're saying a comparative analysis
for the town of Lunenburgg specifically of what a different health insurance provider would cost. Like we who who do we use? So we use um we buy our we have Blue Cross that we buy from uh Maya which stands for the Massachusetts Interlocal
Insurance Agency. Um, that's the key part, right, is the where can we procure it from? And I I was planning on having this presentation. Um, I know I she got mixed reviews, but um to have the section of the select board meeting where our adviser came and talked about
the difficulty. Um, didn't you have that recently? Didn't that before the select board? It came before the select board. Oh, okay. So, I'm just going to take that section of the video and play it for everybody over there because I Gotcha. I I'm sure not everybody watches select board meetings. I mean, you should, but
I'm sure you don't. Um, so that's the difficulty is where to buy it from. So, our options are somewhat limited. Um, so Maya is probably one of the larger options. Um, there are several
smaller consortiums um that have had more struggles um and they're starting to fall apart, frankly. Um, Mass Strategic Health Group comes to mind. Um, they are not doing well and they're
losing towns. Um, back to Maya. Um, and then there's the GIC. Yep. Um, those are the three I know. Or you can self-insure. So, for us though to go get a price, we can't just go get a price from GIC to say how much
would it cost us without going through a competitive like a a formal process. Could we compare towns of our size that may use that? So we can I can try to get some data to say like what is a other I can reach out
to our rep from Maya and ask for if they can provide which they should be able to provide other communities um with roughly 12,000 people in a $50 million budget. What is what does their rates look like? And the way though that works is it's not going to be it's our
specific risk pool. It's our specific people that have an effect on the rates, right? So it's they're looking at our specific risk pool and what those costs have been. Um
so the actuarials when they come in, they would be looking at all of that before they gave a quote. What role does that cook associates play? So Cook and Company um works for the town of Lunenburgg
um and they uh help to negotiate with the health insurer and they help to negotiate with the PEC and we pay them they're paid out of the health insurance budget um $8,000 for
those services. And how how long is their contract for? Um I just signed a one-year renewal. Okay. Okay. Um and it would would it be worth it um
at the tri board meeting to possibly um bring up a few ideas for for potential like incentive based cost recouping programs that we can a lot of towns implement. Um, I think Chris, you mentioned one is like the opt out program. So, we have an opt out.
Uh, like I think there's like 10 or 15 that I know of that other towns may use. So, we use an opt out. So, how how do we find out what we use and what what do we do? How do we find out? Yeah, I can bring that. So, I can bring the full benefit package of what we offer. Um,
I think one of the things that Chris had brought up as a potential was a high deductible plan. um that is an option. Um I had a very preliminary conversation when we were extending the PEC agreement
about whether or not folks would be willing to add that um as an option and the I didn't quite understand it frankly and I'll be candid about that. Um but the response was that we are reticent to
allow that as an option because we feel as though um the town may at some point force it upon us. I don't know that I agree with that sentiment. I think said this I mean
the this was the response from the PC of why they didn't want it on the table as an option. What on the town would force it like who would be forcing it? Like you said, you're nervous that the town will force it upon us, right? So, it's we have right we have an we have to negotiate with the public
employee committee which is made up of um members from each of the bargaining units. Um and they have uh weighted um weighted votes depending on the size of the bargaining unit. Um and non
bargaining unit employees are not represented at that table. Um but that's where those the splits you know what the current splits are are decided of the shifting between um right now we're at 7525 but anything about that split or
the plan design if something changed with the plan design or if we decided to leave Maya and go out so that's all where did this PEC come into existence when how I think it's the state
no it's an this was a choice this was an option And it was within the last decade. Um I don't know why but um it was it was decided within I think under carry speed is when it came in
how voted at town meeting I believe and I don't know I do not know enough once you have a PEC if you can change to the different format but that is on my list to explore one thing
can we find out when that came in? Oh, I have it. I mean, if you want to find out right now, when how just email for this for this presentation? You want some more info? I have it ready in case you have a question. Yeah. All right. I'll have some more info ready for the tri board on that. One thing about the high deductible
um option that I remember and it made sense because our risk assessment is assessed based on our group. Yeah. If you take people that usually will take a high deductible plan are usually the people that have less risks,
healthier, younger people. No, because if it comes with an HSA on it, it's a great option. But one thing it's it's talked about, we we might actually end up with a pool that is very high risk, higher risk, and our premiums will go up even higher. So
to that point, not here, but um in my last community, uh we did not have an opt out and we were exploring an opt out to save money. We thought we'd get a lot of folks to choose an alternate insurer if they had the opportunity. And our
advisor said based on what your pool looks like, your particular employees at this time, absolutely not because all of your people who are likely to opt out are what are bringing your risk portfolio down, right? Um, so we'd want to look at that to see
that likelihood of whether that would be a similar analysis here. But you don't want to lose your people who are the lower cost off the health insurance because it just drives the whole thing into a higher cost plan. the the the high deductible
uh is always a difficult thing to implement and there's always a fear. Um my experience I was on a committee where I worked we did it and basically the premium of the normal deductible the the lower deductibles were such that you
would be foolish not to take the high deductible and put the savings of the premium into a HSA. So if you don't spend all the money you got it for next year. So that's how we sold it to the employees and uh it worked very well
because it was a financial benefit in in the long run if they weren't spending a lot of money on health insurance on health care they had money saved and then the following year they didn't have if they had 3,000 left over put any more money in the HSA that yet they didn't
want to. So it's a it's a good way. Um the other thing you were talking about whether the bargaining thing could you if if they're afraid that the town would force them to say without you know you put something in the in the agreement that we wouldn't make it the
only option uh without the consent of you know the you know that way they have a say if that's their fear because I think getting it is and how you sell it and I mean that in the nicest way but how you
present vent it to the to the employees is is it could save the town money and also maybe even benefit employees. This is the most uncontrolled
section of our budget. Right. Right. Agreed. But I think at these meetings when we're talking about these things and you're answering the questions and I think when we have our meetings the meeting before uh our tribe board meetings we like to talk about like how collectively want we want to ask
questions. It's also an opportunity for you know if you're watching it or folks to watch it to be prepared yes for those questions. Absolutely. so that we can have an open conversation in a public form and then the public can see, you know, they're not yik yaking behind the scenes saying Jen chose this and now it's costing the
town xyz. You know, it's there's going to be clear definitive answers to questions. Yeah. We also got to stop this propaganda that the school department is the only department that burn bears the burden of health cost increases.
Yes. So um to that point um I was working on the health insurance budget earlier today in preparation um and yes the active active school employees are covered
under the school budget. However um the retirees the school retirees are covered under the town budget. the workers compensation is covered under the town budget. The life insurance is covered under the town budget. Um
the other thing that's really important about that is that the school isn't a department in the way that other towns are departments, right? If they were, and if they'd like to be, then I think then the town manager could
come in and say, "No, we're not filling that position. We're not doing that. We're going to do this instead." Right? Right now, that's not the way it's set up. So, by keeping the school department mindful, right, of every hiring decision
they make because it has somewhere in the range of um 30 to $40,000 depending on the plan cost with every single hire. You're being very mindful and you're monitoring your hires. It's no different
than the same conversation that I'm having with a department head when they're talking about bringing on somebody or growing from a 19 to a 32. But if we if they want to say that they're the only department that it doesn't, then I will say, well, they're the only department that isn't
controlled by the town manager either. So, I mean, frankly, it is a way to make sure that people are monitoring that decision that $40,000. I mean the high a high plan that the best plan if you get the best plan that you can get from the
town of Lunberg um with a family plan the town is spending $40,000 right every hire $40,000 so you have $60,000 salary $40,000 $100,000 salary $40,000 and if we're financially the
town is financially responsible for retirees all these things then shouldn't there be some type of communication or stake across departments, school department, town. What do you mean? Like we we are the town is absorbing. So
it's it we always go to the school committee because it's the biggest budget. They spend the most money. But to me like a dollar equals $100,000. It doesn't the numbers don't matter as much as like the percentages. So we're absorbing when people retire or all
those things. So, but we don't have a kind of a stake in how those people are hired and how they're getting insurance. So, why does that make sense? Well, I think so different towns do it different ways, right? So, some some towns the the budget is living over on
the town side. Y but that proportion of the split looks very different. So they here there's the school department gets substantially more than 50% of the budget in the communities that the town picks up the
health insurance that's a lot closer to 50%. So, um, we could move I mean I think that there has been a request to move that into the town operational budget and I don't know what to end what like for what purpose because I'm just
going to take the same amount of money to like it's not that you get to save that huge amount of money right it's coming from somewhere so I don't know what that fulfills
um But I think I think it is probably an I mean realistically the town to administer the benefits for the retirees makes sense. I think it's just something that we have
to whether they're from town or school. I think it just we have to call it out and just show that this is an expense that is borne by this part of the budget. So, you're saying there's been a request to move all health insurance costs onto town
budget and then town budget manages all of and I don't know and I don't know the why like that I haven't been able to figure out like how does that move the needle one way or another for somebody. It's just moving it from one pile into the other. I I think the from what I
heard in their discussions, it was it would help them better manage their budget because that huge variable is no longer going to be there. I I I think you can still do that in different ways internally, but that was one of the one
of the things is, you know, it's hard for us to be budgeting when we have this pool of money that it's what we have and now insurance is going to either take 20% or 25%. And we need to manage
everything else. So if you move it I I I'm just passing on that's the same that's the same what I'm dealing with. I am just I I don't shoot the message. I'm just saying what the discussion has been around I I see the the value that I
see is that now we have only one person working to figure that out versus having two people two different competencies trying to figure that out. that that that for me is, you know, like you said, you we can distribute the money that's available,
period. No one's going to go out and get more money. Um, but I would see a value on having one Compton person planning and managing that versus having this, you know, 56% of the budget now
all, you know, having to put a pen on it and wait for them to sort everything else out. So yeah, I mean if I think it's my my thought was is it just so that is the thought that oh the town can absorb that
and then we'll slowly creep back to the same portion of percentage of the pie right that the math won't work on that. No, I I I honestly think it was No, that's what it is. It's so that they can stay at 3 and a half% and not
have to worry about the 16% increase in um their same thing. I mean that's the same this is my biggest part of the budget is the health insurance and yes it has a disproportional impact on everything else. So if we know that
this is going up we've been told 14.8% 8% minimum. Um, if then that means that everything else can't go up 2 and a half%. Right? So that's the same math on whoever's dealing with it. It's the same math, right? Because the statement keeps being
made, the police and fire don't have to worry about health insurance. Only the schools need to worry about it. And I'm like, no, I don't know how you're thinking. Maybe it's the perception like you're saying Chris that it's not in their budget but it's in school budget so it just looks and feels different but
it's not different it's not different but it feels different to like the school committee residents I think that it what does become different just to kind of put this point down again is that when the fire chief comes to me and he
says he wants to add FTE I'm saying okay well yep that person cost this this and this cost $40,000. If we remove that from a a department that oversight where there is a department that can add
FTEES without any consideration of what it does to the health insurance budget, that's where there's an issue. Yep. And so by keeping it over there, it keeps that if we add one here, we add 40 there because otherwise we add one there and
oh, they'll add one they'll add 40,000 over there, right? Can there be a reflection when departments present their budgets of how much their health insurance is costing even though the town is picking up the cost for actuals by Yeah.
That way it kind of looks like if you have a small department that might not be the right might the best thing to do but like I could just find out if there's no you're saying if there's like three people in the department then you just Yeah. I mean there are there definitely
are like one and two person departments. Um but it it would show but it is what it is. It's the cost whether it's absorbed by the town or you know it's everything's absorbed by the town. You know what I mean? Whether it's school committee, fire department, police, everything is absorbed by the taxpayer. Right. Right. I mean it goes the money comes from the
town and and the and the state and uh comes to here and it gets paid. This money is funible as I always tell everybody. It's just doesn't matter where it comes from and who gets to put it in what GL. It's the same. So, the thing is I I don't make it doesn't make
any sense why the school committee um has an issue with dealing with the health insurance. They don't really deal with it. They just have to know what it costs cuz it's the same for the town. The town doesn't go like, "Well, gee, I'm only going to pay 3% this year increase when it's 10."
No, you got to pay 10 because that's what that's the best deal you can get. So, that's what you got to pay. If we put it as an actual in all the departments we can physically well that's that's I I think every smart business person would go and say the you know it's 40 grand it could be right and
you or you could use an average number but you know if you could say it could be as much as 40 grand that person might not take health insurance because they're supposed they might opt out right so it doesn't cost as much great but there's going to be some that are so maybe you have a an average so you say
when you're looking to hire somebody it's 28,000 this year. Maybe it's going to be more next year, but that's the number you should look at to see is it worth the expense because whether we pay it a dollar to so they can pay their mortgage or a dollar for health insurance, it's a dollar.
It doesn't we don't I mean it's, you know, it's the same dollar. So, is the dollars that we're paying worth the value that they're going to provide the town? And if you say, well, that's a $80,000 value and it's going to cost
120. you don't buy that, you figure another way to do it. The other thing that I just want to before we um go into next week about health insurance, I just want to kind of mark here and I'll I'll repeat this again next week is that this is one area of the budget that we do want to not be
close to actuals. This is our a it gives us that buffer in case something changes dramatically and we have people coming on or coming off that are electing different plans. But realistically, this is a source where we can go to if
we need to make adjustments throughout the fiscal year or at the end of the fiscal year. Commonplace source to park that. And if it um if it's not needed for adjustments, we know that this is going to turn over to free cash and we
need a certain amount and percentage of free cash, right? So, it's a kind of a guaranteed little bucket and rather than put padding everywhere, this is just it's budgeted for increased people coming on with the hope that it can be a
source. Do you have a percentage of that buffer that you generally would use? No, I have um how many spots? Okay. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Health insurance is sticky and expensive.
Health insurance is gosh, I mean, we did great for a while. Everybody was doing great and I don't know, it's the increase of the percentages that's killing the towns and cities to be honest. Um, but yeah, I think just being transparent at these tri board
meetings and asking all the questions and getting the answers out there, um, is the point so that everybody knows and there's no black gray areas. Everything's black and white as much as it can be and that we have a little bit more time to get into the weeds.
Yeah. Okay. So, I've been carrying something on old business called budget request forms, and I thought it was something that you would ask me to put on there. Yes. So, we were going to do actual forms, but we're using clear gov, which
is all just baked into the software. Okay. So, there's nothing to discuss on that. No. Right. Okay. So, we talked about tri board meetings. Um, uh, I don't think there's anything on the historical school budget data.
Um, I can tell you what my next thought is. Um, I think they going to I I have I have data. Um, but they're going to be closing out the year usually by the end of August. So hopefully. And um, I was
hoping to do another deep dive after after the year's closed out. Okay. Um, we had minutes from July 10th and July 24th. Did people review those?
Yes. All right. Uh, can I get a motion to approve the minutes on July 10th and 24th? So moved. Second. Okay. So, I'm going to have to roll call. Jay, hi Mike.
Hi, Anna. Hi, Tanya. Hi, uh, Tom. Hi, Jean. I and an I for myself. All right. Um, okay. Any committee reports? No. Have we assigned people to
committees in this new year or no? No, we actually have to do um typically around this time probably would have been last meeting we would have done the reorganization because we we would have either got new members or confirmed membership. So I'll put that
on for next week and then talk about committee memberships. Well, for our next meeting. Yeah. Because I think who who was I don't think we have someone designated to the school committee for example. Wasn't that you Gina? Yeah.
Oh, we do. Okay. Sorry. I was like I couldn't I remember who was it, Gina? I'm sorry. Okay. Um, so actions and topics for future meetings. So, I got something from the master planning committee
um asking us to fill out some large spreadsheet. Uh I guess they were asking all the committees to fill this out. I got one too. Um I placed it in the SharePoint. Um but I
only saw it today. Maybe they sent it in earlier, but um so there's the master planning committee folder in our documents. There's an Excel file in there. So um I'm a little jetlagged, so
I looked at it and I didn't 100% understand it, but maybe I will soon. Um but maybe at our next meeting we might have to take some position on that. It's asking if we have policies and all that stuff. We're not really a
policym body. So I think that they're trying to figure out like or trying to capture and make sure that they have everybody's role over certain elements of the master plan correctly identified and whether or not
some like one of their projects or initiatives whether it will have to go through certain bodies or who will be taking it. I think that's the ultimate goal I think. Okay. And I know Mike, you're Did you go to their last meeting?
Yeah, sorry. Heard you. Um, oh, so they had a meeting last night and I missed the meeting. I tried to log in. It didn't work out. But anyway, the what they're trying to do is trying to get a understanding of what all the different
committees feel about the progress and and how they should move forward with things. So, I mean, take a look at the spreadsheet and see what see what you think of it what they're asking for, I guess.
All right. We're having a little bit of trouble hearing you. Maybe at our next meeting, we can um just have you give a bit of an overview of it, you know, based on your your knowledge of it. Sure. Um are you going to be here next
meeting, Chris? Well, so our next natural meeting would be in two weeks, but I was going to recommend we skip that because it's leading into Labor Day weekend, Thursday, and I don't know what people's schedules are, but um
so then the next one after that would be um looks like 911. So, um I think the um the master plan deadline I think was October f it's October 1st whatever the request is. So,
yeah. So, we'll have time is my point. Okay. Yeah, we should have two meetings. Yep. Okay. Um I have a request for our next meeting whether it's two weeks, four weeks, whatever.
Okay. Uh, I think that's going to be a big meeting for parks and wreck, which is kind of messy. Um, I know we're talking about hiring a full-time employee there. Um, I've walked all the parks this last two weeks. I have some
maintenance questions going on there. Um, and some questions about who does what, who's, you know, who's responsible for the things. um when I looked back at the finance uh the the uh facilities report was just very vague in their
graphs. It was just like these percentages but not really um transparent. So, you know, I'd like just a little bit more clarity on who does what, where, when, how much it cost, who's um, you know, park maintenance plans, including list of parks, maintenance
activities, warm and cold weather, and who's responsible, hours that they allocate staff to, um, associated costs, the list of the current parks, field users, uh, permit numbers, fees charged, how users are tracked, list of active
programs. I mean I where you know um program coordinators, staffing structure, program costs, revenues, do they generate revenue? Like how do they they don't okay? Um you know and I think these these questions really need to be answered before we hire a full-time
staff person. Um that they're going to be the face of parks even though facilities is responsible for it. If someone sees something broken, that person is going to have to have a very close relationship with um the facilities director and their department to be able to answer questions
um and be accountable for like how the parks look and how they're used. Um, so I just be before we put a job description out there and hire somebody, I think we should put them in the best best place to be have a successful, you
know, experience um, not only for themselves but for the town. So I think we have I have a lot of questions. Um, I'm not sure quite sure like if I should just bring them up at the next meeting. We can kind of go through it. Some of these things may you may already know.
Um, so I'd like to add that to our agenda to go over some of that stuff. Yeah. The question is is do we do it here or do you bring it to the perks? I mean, I think if we could sus out some of the things here because maybe this I mean Anna's been on the parks commission
for a very long time. So, you kind of know more ins and outs than a lot of other people, but I don't think some a former parks commission meeting member should be talking for the current parks commission. So, how do we like how how would you recommend we do that? I think if you have a lot of questions
regarding that, you may want to coordinate it with the chair chair. Maybe maybe what would make best sense is that there's an offline meeting, okay, with the chair, facilities director, maybe the rec director, maybe not. I
don't depending on what the questions are and that can hammer some of that out so that um the best information comes forward. I do think about the uh September presentation that parks and
wreck will be under facilities presenting on that night. Um I don't think that at that September meeting we're going to have the plan of making the rec director full-time completely baked, right? Maybe not even halfbaked.
So um yeah, especially that's going to be a process that right especially what we were talking about you know like consolidating you know different different places in town well it's going to require inc like a look at increased fees what types of
programming is would folks be interested in and what types of uh programming should we be generating revenue around and what types of programming really should we be subsidizing around around that's a it's a long probably
conversation and we'll get hopefully we'll get to that point by that time. I just don't want to have a 10hour tri board meeting when we can kind of talk about these things prior. Right. Exactly. like a month ago, I'm like, "Yes, full-time wreck director, 100%." And now I'm like,
"Well, these questions need to be answered before." One thing I'll I'll I not answer any of your questions um in particular, but one thing I'll say it is when I look at at you know healthy
communities and what they have offerings around you know we lack that offerings the the behind the work that you're talking about you know I I'm will never dismiss any of that but this is something that us as a
community is lacking to have a full service, you know, like as other communities have like we we have very little if nothing. So, so I don't disagree with you. I'm saying
and you know, we got to realize it's kind of like, you know, we don't have this that last shift of the for the fire department and and we look like there's six other towns in out of 350, they're in the same situation as us. Well, there's something wrong with that. And
and this is one of the the areas where we can go next door to us and say, you know, other communities similar to us, similar size, similar population, they have more elaborate programs. They're serving their community. They're doing
they're getting more for buck for their more bang for their buck, if you will. And I don't and I think that's something we get to, you know, I I acknowledge that. That's the first thing is um you know one other feedback that I I'll not feedback but historical information is
and Chris might remember this when the new high school was created was built that was supposed to be pretty close to community building in fact where we meet the school committee meets it's called the community room we put a big gym there locker rooms and it used to be
that the pre the two superintendents ago she used to have very open policy like the school buildings were very accessible to the community and you know we had access to the facilities and has become a like there is nothing that's happened. She used to have evening
programs and that was a building that was you know and they actually had a function for a person that that's still there but her her function her job function has shifted. So I know I just give you that that historical information. I want all the cultural knowledge I can get in this
town about this this area, but I also want to see an like an operational guidelines from the facilities director of how these things are working and happening. Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with that at all. And and to be completely candid, I don't think our facil now our facilities
director can write you a report of how we're going to fix this system in this building and how we're going to get there. But do I think the facilities director is going to be the one that helps us to really look at the analysis necessary
for the programming? Um, no, no, not at all. Right. So, and so facilities director more This is where it's f going back to what the chair had said earlier about surprise surprisingly
parks and wreck is not under culture and recreation right we were having this discussion because it lives under facilities because of the fertilizer and the landscape contract and the maintenance and all those elements make sense to live under facilities right that makes sense
but does we were having an internal dialogue of does it make sense to pluck the person and the programming and bifurcate the um basically budget into it lives in two
parts. So like parks facilities lives under facilities and staffing and programming would live under parks because well difference between programming and the way the department is run and how they're supporting that that parks and
wreck how facilities is supporting parks and wreck and you know are we going to ask this person to put all of these things in place or are these responsibilities going to fall under facilities director you know like how people apply for permits, what like all
of those things like who's going to be the one. If it's going to be the new parks director, then we have to be very clear that this is going to be a huge job for you. If we're just having facilities department do the landscaping, the snow removal, the repairs, the maintenance
plan for the parks, um then that's the way it's going to be. But I'd like to figure that out and see how they're doing that already. I think the parks has learned, they did learn that trying to do something too big all at once is a
disaster. So that's kind of what happened um about three years ago um with a prior w director, but it was just too ambitious, way too much and it couldn't be carried out. So they are trying to like kind of like
gradually step it up. And remember three four years ago parks was under DPW where should be right where facility should be. Well we broke out facilities because they were just well yeah it was under DPW with no
staff. It was under the DPW director I think is what you're saying who's under right DPW. But that's my opinion. Go on Chris. I'm sorry. No. So I I think there is a you know an an understanding that you got to build slowly up to that. Yeah. I'm I'm not suggesting putting all these giant programs in and generating
all this revenue and all of that. Um you know just based on what I've said before looking at all the other you know places that offer resources you know getting together with parks and wreck and and bringing that all together. But before we hire a park director full-time
we need a plan. We need a plan of what who's going to do what? What's facilities going to be in charge of what's parks and wreck and can facilities say like no, you know what I mean? So, and if we hire if if in this budget, right, we go to a full-time rec director and X percentage
is supported by taxation and X percentage is supported by programmatic revenue. I would imagine initially that would be dimminimous, very small because we don't we're not nothing's going yet. But how long
are we is is reasonable to in expect that position to transition right out into just uh living off of the revolving fund. Right. And and I would imagine 3 to 5 years would be a reasonable amount to ramp up the programs enough to get it living outside
of taxation because that would be the goal. Right. that it maybe is a initial investment from taxation to get the staff in place to now have the body in place to build the programs to get itself funding
or um I think there we should have a conversation with the strategy and the goal. Um I know for example the town beach something that it I I you know it's something that we get revenue from it
and uh and for a while I think the this was before I I joined them the swim lessons weren't even paying for the instructor time and um and that got taken care of it. So, um, and and let's remember that we do,
you know, we have a rack director, but her duties go beyond what a rack director would do because she's like oneman show there. That's it. Yeah. And and very, you know, you go from very limited hours, right? And you go from, you know, it's it's like it's like you got to be as
like a wedding planner, but still have the discipline of having to do all the bookkeeping with it. It's just not true skills. and she's she has handled the diversity of tasks that she has well um but it has also limited her to what she
you know so it's a it's a complex question and I'm not disagreeing with any of you said by the way um and I think actually when we hired this facil this rack director um you know I I said
something very similar to the I took a vote when we hired the previous one I took a vote against hiring the previous one because I didn't feel like we hadn't set up enough to make him success and it wasn't a successful thing and I went to the Slack board meeting when
they were hiring I said that I'm against because we're not setting him up for success and lo and behold so I think when the next one came and we had other things in place we meant we reduced the scope of the of the job description because I think that was the one problem
and u and it's you know it's working for what what we get and what we pay and and the continuation of of things because we also had already turned over like you know the town beach this year it's been a success as far as I know and we have brand new
the weeds. Oh, we got to take care of the weeds but uh but you know it's baby steps. I do want to cut off cuz yeah I'm about to fall asleep. Me too. But we will strive to to get the answers. So yeah, let's have let's set up something y
in through the appropriate channels. Um okay. Um I think up next uh public comment. Any public comment from the public? All right. Any public comment from the committee? Nope.
Okay. I'd entertain a motion to adjurnn. So moved. Second. All right. Roll call. Uh Jay, I Mike, hi. Anna, hi. Tanya, uh Tom, hi. Jean, and an I for myself. We are
ajourned. Thanks.