thought she sent out an email about it a while ago. It's possible. I think it's a different one though. I think I think it's I think it's it's a different um Wi-Fi. I think we have a I think we have a guest one which is like slower guest Wi-Fi
slower and secure. And then there's a better one. Yeah, there's one town hall that looks like there's a there's something there. But then the guest Wi-Fi that I'm on, I don't remember ever putting anything in there, but it could have been. It was town hall.
Yeah, I I'm on guest Wi-Fi. Good evening. It's 7:01. It's October 9th. We're not on yet. We're all set. There we go. Good evening. It's October 9th.
The finance committee. In accordance with requirements of the open meeting law, please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and broadcast over the Lunberg public access channel and on Facebook live on the public access Facebook page. If you go
to the um town site, which is lunenburgg.com, and you look for the calendar, you'll find the Facebook link. And if you're calling in, you can also see the number
on the agenda. Please rise for national to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all. Sorry. Is there is there any comment from the public? Is there anybody on Zoom? Doesn't look like it. Any
pop any comments from the committee? Nope. No. Okay, then. Town manager will not be here. I don't think the finance director
is going to be attending. So, we have the special town meeting warrant. Did anybody get I I got the warrants um what's the like at 1:00 today? Was that today? Yeah. Sent out.
Yeah. It was one. So, I hadn't had a chance to really look at it other than something that came at 3:20 p.m. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't had a chance to look at them either. That's from anybody else. Um, so I watched the slack
board where they went through um and um and there are two you know we have this standard um warrants that we have like you know pay prior fiscal year monies and so
forth. There are two things that are being proposed that of substance in my opinion. one is reimagining the personnel committee, eliminating the personnel committee. Um, and um, you know, we haven't had a
personnel committee probably in a couple years now or close to a couple years. And while I agree that there's pos possibly changes that need to be made to how we are structured, I believe, you know, we just saw some of
the language that's not finalized today. I think these are too big of changes to be done without public input, time to think about the repercussions and understand everything. And you know and I and within the
document that the town manager sent she sent a list of towns that have eliminated the personnel committee and you know and then it made me curious about other ones that haven't right because that's the flip right. Yeah. Um and you know and one and I the first
one of the first that I went to look was Graten. So, here's what I learned about Graten in 2013 when they were having the their bylaw review committee. They had a presentation to eliminate the the personnel committee
because it turns out at that time they only had two employees that felt that we would been under that committee because everybody in town were uh you know with part of a unit. Mhm. And then although they had a
presentation they discussed it did not make it to town meeting. I I didn't read I didn't go to watch their meetings but I know they eventually did in 2018 so five years later and what they did is they maintained the personnel committee
and they made a lot of changes where the function of the personnel committee was a much smaller but on my quick reading it it looks like it still exists as a as a backup function as a eyes of the people into this one area and And I have
a lot of concerns about eliminating the, you know, the public oversight all of once, you know. So I I'm not saying I don't support. I'm just saying this in particular that item has not
been well deliberated in town to make it to town meeting. Um I think I think we should buy ourselves a little more time and bring this to um possibly the spring town meeting. I think doing our due diligence, getting the public involved is always a good choice and really fi
figure out what is what would be the best scenario for Lunberg. Town meeting although it's a great place to deliberate and you know legislate everything is not necessarily the place we come up with ideas what is the best idea for Lunberg. So I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done on
that another Tom who brought forth that to get rid of the the personnel committee the town manager. Okay. Along with she's she's been doing research with uh the assistant town manager about it. Okay.
Um another Tiny article that I'm personally going to have issues with, but I'm I'm going to be talking about it. I can go talk in public comment is they are looking to eliminate the APDC and have that fun functions move to the historical commission. And I I have a
lot of concerns as a resident of the village district and you know and I I keep asking why are we doing this? Why are we changing the structure of a bylaw that took over two years to be drafted? There was a reason why the writers of
that bylaw that you know literally made this entire part this you know mostly residential zone to be commercial like the village district is commercial and and the APDC is the is the guarantees that you know we are not going to end up
kind of like you know a strip like a you know and and there's a lot of things there that I care a lot about and there has been no process on that as well no process on public hearings, no process of advertising. We're looking to do this and I have a lot of concerns of how that
bylaw has been applied before and how it would be applied should that fall under the function of the historical commission because that by law the main reason the that APDC commission was created was because to create a very
distinct distinct difference between historical preservation and architectural preservation and now they're talking about merging that just casually you know like And this so anyway so I think these are two bylaws that it's proposed a very big in affects
residents quite a bit like all the village district residents are affected by it and we need to look into it and have a better process and and you know for one last point about the personnel committee I'm going to circle back is
that you know we lose the oversight of the the financial impact like right now we have a very tious massive process for increasing wages and doing all this and and and it's on the public's eye although it's not happening because we
don't have a personnel committee. So there's a lot of these two bylaws and I don't see how I can have enough information to be comfortable comes mid November. So that's what I have. Thanks Anna. I appreciate I appreciate
all of that. Um and I love the insight. I haven't had a chance to look at this, so I don't have a chance to like form an opinion, you know, based on all the research that you've done as well. Um, we don't have to vote on this tonight whether we're pushing this forward. No.
Um, what is the latest that we can vote on it and what is the process there? Probably a couple weeks before the November meeting. Next meeting. Okay. So, by on the next meeting, we as a committee will need to vote on these warrants. Um, we have a public hearing, don't we?
probably for no um and on the personnel committee when I first signed up to be part of this town that's the committee that I signed up for and it was just me. So because I do think it's very important Anna to have um but we have to have the people that
want to do it right. Um, so I'm with you on it. We just have to find the people to do it right. And it can be a different version. I'm I'm just My comments were, you know, my comments on both is we need to make
sure we have a when we make sub changes to town to how the town is is structured to resident residents a large dense fairly dense district and it's going to affect how they use the property. like these things need to be very well
advertised, take public input and that's you know and and I feel like both of these proposals are lacking that. So thank you. We just had a start of the bylaw committee again. I know that and uh they just had one meeting so far. So um these
are both the personnel and the uh the district uh things or changes in the bylaw, right? So I and both of these are coming from the town manager basically, right? That is that what you're saying that these requests are
the APDC was a request from three members of the APDC that voted on that on their December 24 meeting. Okay. So it's coming from them. But but you know this was a bylaw created by the planning board. The planning board hasn't seen this. It has not been on the planning board agenda.
It has not been a discussion with the planning board. It's I'm not like in the end I wanted the will of the people to prevail but I wanted the will of the people to prevail and um these you know trying to do thing you know government is in my
opinion is not supposed to be you know their goal is not to be efficient it's to be fair and just to the residents um and transparent and that that's what I wish for for government. So
As far as a personnel committee, I I I would think that I know we don't have one now. Um and maybe that's the urgency that the town manager is feeling. I'd love to hear her point of view on it, but um I could be, you know, either way.
I I worked at a place that was a nonforprofit. We had a personnel committee when I started 20some years ago and we s we got rid of it fairly quickly and went to a HR where the HR person reported to the manager the the
CEO who reported to the board and it worked fantastic. Uh so I think um but I like to hear you know that. So, it's it's hard for us to it's just someone throwing together a warrant and we don't have any background and why. I mean, I I
can understand a little bit why they the personnel committee they want it changed because it's hard and there was a lot of problems with the prior one, but you know, they just can't throw up a a warrant and say vote on it because
it's got to be more than that. It takes more time. And a backup plan. Yeah. What are we going to do? who's going to be the voice, you know, right? And again, there's a there's a bylaw committee and I'm not sure if they're the right people to talk to to say, "Hey, this is my, you know, this is our recommendation. We want you to
change the bylaws." And then that, you know, that might be a way to get it done um to get their point opinion. And if there's other committees like uh the select board obviously us and the um
planning board or the zoning board or anybody else has uh to do with others they should be brought in. So it might take some time. I I I think some of these are probably a little premature in in thinking that they should be there in November. Maybe we can talk about it in
May. Right. Yeah. I would agree. Yeah. Yeah. And that's and that's the thing, you know, and both is about the process and engaging the community and Yeah. No, thank you. I think um
special town meeting I've always thought it was more for housekeeping articles and articles of urgency. I think articles of any significant substance really should go to an annual town meeting. Yeah. Um, and by the way, I I have
requested I have sent emails about these things and communicated with, you know, and I have requested that these two items flow it down to the bylaw review. Um, but somehow it just made it like because that's the whole point of the bylaw review is is is the is
communicating with the with the community that you have this process. We want your feedback. Um, and and that's where I think it should lay, you know. So, yeah. Yeah, anybody else.
Thank you, Anna. Sure. Um, for the upcoming tri board meeting, which probably will not be until late November. Again, it's the school budget. that's going to be presented
uh general government um debt service. So that should be an interesting meeting. Long that's a long one. Is is there a possibility of getting
like their presentations before the meeting? That would just so we can review them a little bit and not just get stuff flashed at us. And that's a that's a good request. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We can Did they send out the presentations from the last meeting?
They did like the day of the day of it. It's just it doesn't give much time. Right. Right. I like that, Mike. Then we can be a little bit more intentional about what we want to say as a committee to them in that venue. Um,
right. Because I feel like finance talks a lot in most meetings, which is a good thing. You mean me? Is that what you're trying to say? I talk. We all talk. Um, Chris, we all do. Um, you know, but we have a lot of questions and and when it comes to money
and in the town, we're very passionate. So, I think that's fine. Um, but if we have intentionality and talk about it before as a committee, then we can be on the same page of what we want to ask, right? Yeah. I um I'll ask Jen if she can
a week before. Would that be enough time? Do you think? Could it be before like we're going to have a established meeting so we can look at it and then talk about it at our meeting. So if like the tribore meeting is on the 24th, our meeting is the week
before. Maybe we can get it prior to that. That would be nice. But I mean we have a long time it got pushed in. It got pushed. I know. and you give there should be no excuses at this point. You give somebody an extra month and they'll take an extra 6 weeks type of thing.
Well, I mean, do is it in our purview to say, "Hey, we want to we want to be able to see this two weeks before." I completely feel that it should be. I mean, I think a lot of this stuff like we should be able to discuss as a whole and then come up with questions of, you know, what is this versus this? And
um I mean, I'm a real quantitative person. And I'd love to have Excel spreadsheets from last year and this year just to be able to compare the two, to tell you the truth, but it might be a big lift. Um, I mean, I say we request it when Chris comes back. You know, we can also
give some guidance on that. Um, and I think it's a great idea. I always find the the the tri board stuff when you get the budgets it's they're spending and
there's there's I never came across something go like well why are we doing that? I mean there's always there's always some reason a good reason to do a lot of things. the the big question is can we afford to do all these things and it's a little hard to look at one section of a
budget and say oh we don't need that because we don't see the whole budget and so I think it's you know it's I think I'm looking at this as the wish list of the various department heads these are the things I like the
fourth um the fourth uh uh ship. Yeah. In the fire department and I want this and this and the the you know DPW wants this and all that. All that is great and everything I heard so far has been you know there's value to the town
to have it. The question is can we afford it? And I think where the rubber meets the road at least for for the school and for the town will be is to realize what our what our uh revenue is going to be and then kind of cutting
down to where we can what it is what's what's going to be the items that are not going to make it and and why. And that's um you know and that's where the some disagreements can happen. But I think it's nice to have here's all the things
that we could be doing if we had the resources because that's the way I look at it now is they're all great things but right and we want to be completely strategic when it comes to schools because it's been such a mess since I've been here on this committee.
So I think the scrutiny has to be like deeper deeper dive as you know. Um, and the more time we have, the deeper we can go and ask questions that are intentional. I think that's another big reason we
need to be looking out more than just one year ahead as well. I mean, we should be reviewing three to five year plans only because I mean, this all of our buildings are getting older. You know, I'd love to see a comprehensive plan from facilities, both I guess we have
separate facilities for school and the town and just kind of see what their plans are to going out forward. I mean, we just passed over a bunch of large building projects within the town. We're not going to do them or we'll go at them
again later. I don't know. Um, but you know, we have like Turkey Hill down there that needs a tremendous amount of repairs. Mhm. And then, you know, the rest of the buildings around here, this building, um, so on so forth. So, it'd be nice to
know what we're looking at 3 to 5 years down so we don't approve some large expenditures for next year and then all of a sudden in four years realize, hey, we got to throw another couple million over here type of thing. So, right. A matter of fact, that was one of the
things that happened uh before the um the town meeting in May was uh Chris put together some numbers based on what the park would be, what the uh Ritter uh town hall building and some estimate for
um for Turkey Hill and that could we meet the numbers of percentages and we could um uh but I think beyond that I think we and we talked about this at I'm on municipal building design committee is that the town really needs and the
schools really need to get together and have a plan for the next as you said the next 10 years like we said okay we're going to do the rid of building and town hall what about uh TCP and we're going to tear that down and we and we're going to have to do the Turkey Hill renovations okay so those are the you
know those are the ones up there but also well the primary school is 20 plus years old my daughter was in the first kindergarten she's you know 25 26 now. So I know that that's how I I know it's over 20 years old. And guess what? It's going to start
needing windows and roofs and all that. So we should be not surprised in 10 or 15 years or or 5 years that these these things start to come up and a facilities guy is going to tell us, "Yep, we need this, we need that." So we should have a
plan for it. And the same thing for um um the high school middle school because that's now what 10 years old, you know, when is that going to start to need some some work? So, we should have, you know, not a finalized plan, but an idea of
when we're going to have to spend money to do certain things, the library, the uh the police and fire station, all those. And uh that's where the facility guys and and others need to come up and and tell us what it is. And of course
things might change over time, but at least we have a plan. And that's all you can really do is have a plan. Yeah, it it's a lot easier to plan for planned obsolescence than it is dealing with the emergency.
Yeah. Last minute. So They they do a they do a very good job with things like police cars and ambulances and and um and uh fire uh
equipment. They seem to have Okay, we got a plan. We know we know what's going to happen. So, they need to do it with the buildings, too. It's the same concept of knowing ex you don't know exactly what the new police car is going to cost in 10 years, but you know you're gonna have to spend the money and you're going to have to make sure that that's
you know we have that money available to do that. Same thing with the schools. And I think that's what was missing from these big projects that were they were sorry that they were attempting to u pass is there were no maintenance plans attached to the projects. There should be 10-year
maintenance plans attached to every project of that size. Um, which project do you because I know Marshall Marshall had a very elaborate a 10-year plan. It did. I didn't see it. Um, I'll have to look at it again, but I know that the these
buildings did not have that type of maintenance plan specifically with, you know, the facilities, the heat, the air conditioning, those things. Yeah. Or or or an operations cost versus what it's currently at. Yeah. Yeah. There was nothing there. I mean, I know Marshall had, but you know, it's so much
easier, right? I think I had one building with a roof, but grounds maintenance facilities, and that and they and they did have that, you know, water drainage, the the pond, all the things. So, they did have that. I I don't think they had that for the building. You're
correct on that. And I remember Mike Ray saying like when you have a brand new building, you don't have maintenance for a while. but it was still not clear. Um, so yeah.
Okay. Does anybody want to go over any old business? Business, prior tri board meetings, so um the analysis of historical and current school budget data, I think that's something that still exists there
in my mind. Then I know Rene has worked um the select person Renee has worked on some as well. I think we have a much more clear picture of what happened. Um it's I don't think we have I don't have all the data needed for doing
projections of where they are because it's odd that they they we we have the head we have the headcount for beginning of FY25 and ending of FY25
but we don't have what is in FY26 and we don't have what happened in FY24 in terms of staff Um, so I I think things are getting be becoming more clear, but we don't have a full picture yet. And you know, and I
remember I was just talking with Red prior to the meeting. You know, I remember being sitting here and I I was like this this numbers just don't add up how much they're increasing. And I think that's still my my question and I think
it's Rene's question. It's true. like you know the school if you look at the over like FY25 actuals to the FY26 budget how much money actually they got they received like
from actuals right they received $2.1 million more that's almost 10% of their budget right like their budget is at 25 million so it's a 8% so that's a 8% increase in one year right that's a big number. So, you know,
and that's like that's a big number. Let's just put it that way for and this is for FY26. This is not even counting from FY24 to FY26, right? From FY24 to 25. FY26 from their FY25
actuals, they have approximately 8% more in their budget this year. in FY25 they received the override plus the I think it was almost like 4% increase.
So we're talking about like almost you know like 15% in two years increase. That's a lot. So I I don't have a clear picture where this money we have a clear picture of FY25 now how it was spent but
I don't have a clear picture how this is going to be used in FY26 and and I think the schools have a lot a lot of work to do especially when we get to the tri board. Um I think you're right. Yeah. the
on the town finance policies review and discussion. One thing popped into the select board meeting that was interesting um and maybe I do watch too many of these town meetings for a long and I've been watching for a long time. I remember in um when the last charter
review happened which was in 2017 and 18 that's when we became the slack board. Uh Nancy Gray participated on that. Um there was a request um a suggestion to make the town accountant report to the town manager and I remember Tom Alonzo
who was not back on the board yet and I actually remember David Rogers also is speaking about this that the point of the town accountant is to oversee the records the transactions and the finance director is the one running the day-to-day business
and and the town account should always report to the select board. So that that's their look into the finances of the town. And that makes sense, right? Like, you know, I I own a very small business and I have a a business
partner. I'm the town I'm the accountant there. I do the bookkeeping. And from the day one, I told her, I'm I don't write checks. If I'm doing this, I don't write checks, you know. I don't write checks. I don't make payments. And and and that's just common sense. That's a very common accounting practice. And it
came to light that over the years those two positions were merged and now our finance director and our town account is the same person. Um and that's why the the the new finance director at town
accountant had to be uh you know approved or you know hired by the select board because the charter conversation but I do think it does present a bit of a conflict and I I don't remember that happening merchant might have happened just like the talent count the old
talent account retired and the previous town manager is like oh you know instead of hiring someone extra part-time or something maybe Karen brochure can do both like you know that wouldn't been in the the public eye. Mhm. But I overall as a as a policy I
think that's that's problematic that we have the person it's the same people spending the money and overseeing the records and overseeing that how you know we're doing so I but you you have to have the proper controls in place u no matter what
whoever you're doing it you have to have that so I don't know enough about the different roles but yeah if there is not enough either way if the controls aren't in place you debt issues, right? Oh, definitely. If you don't have
good good um uh financial practices in place that are, you know, and that's um it it it becomes problem problematic to begin with, but but the oversight of, you know, who's spending the money and who's
overseeing who, you know, that the money is being spent as it should, that I do think it should be two different people. um or create a mechanism for that to be to be clear to the public, right? Or create a relationship between the
tongue. I don't know. I just it came to light. I'm like, "Oh, that's a good point. I didn't realize that was the case." I I agree. I I I would probably if we have the era of the audit, when the audit's going to be done, the annual audit, they look into that and make sure
that it's tight because it would that's obviously something you want to be concerned about if because we've had a history of fraud in this town as other towns have had, but we've had our share of uh issues. So, making
sure that things are done properly and is is vital. Yep. Uh do do the they have a new um uh finance person for the town and they also have a new one for the school, right? Right.
Yeah. And uh so this will be an interesting thing to see. Usually when new people come in, they want to see stuff and I think I heard the the town person say they're doing a lot of work and they're doing stuff. So be I think
maybe at one of our meetings we should you know ask through the town manager the finance person now what they see and what's going what what have they what are their recommendations to if if they have any recommendations because I think
it's a new people coming in see things that people who have been here for a little while don't see right that's a good point Anybody else? Any comments about the committees? Minutes. Oh, minutes. Are we missed? We have We
have minutes. July 8th. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I didn't see those back. Did everybody else have a chance to look at the minutes from July 8th? That was the tri board meeting. Was that
a normal meeting? That's our meeting, correct? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Oh, it's tri board 8th. Mhm. July 8th. Tri board. We're approving their Yeah, they came. I remember seeing them.
I just I think I looked at them. I know. I read them. I It was a while ago. Yeah, it was a while. July that would have been back in August. Yeah, we're not talking about our minutes from
August. We're talking about the tri board meeting from July, which is our minutes, too, I guess. Okay. So I want to recommend I'll make a motion that we accept those minutes. So moved. All in favor?
I I does anybody have committee reports? Oh, Mike has one. Oh, go ahead. No. Um, so the master plan steering committee,
um, Chris had this that spreadsheet the last meeting. He talked a little bit about it and they they had sent us a whole list of information um of things that they were looking at and wanted some feedback on those. Chris was said he was filling it out. Yeah.
I'm going to send it. Well, they sent it to me today. I don't know if Chris didn't send it, they didn't get it or what the deal is. Um and it was kind of rushed. They sent it to me today and said, "You guys need to fill this out tonight. I don't see that
happening. Um, so are you guys okay with me filling out the couple things that they asked for? I mean, it was they they're essentially they send us some like recommendations
and then, you know, like ask is this controlled by your board's bylaws and policies? Do we have a bylaw policy on this already? What's your recommendation align with the committee's current goals and priorities? I mean, it's not, as Chris stated, a lot of this doesn't apply to
us because we don't really make recommendations. We just review other people's recommendations in reference to the finance health of this of the town or in the project. Correct. I mean, is that So, all right. I'm just going to call
her and explain that. Yeah. Okay. Because I don't think like we want to align ourselves with any direct policies of other committees or anything, right? We just review them, right? Okay. I'm not on any other committees.
Well, Miss Bill Buildings design committee, we had a meeting and it was very interesting. We had uh there the uh superintendent and um so we were talking about the Ritter in town hall and we're looking at
okay what can we do to see if we can make adjustments to get it through and uh the question was asked to um superintendent um do you need to have the
superintendent and the town manager in the same building and she said no it would be okay but not something that is something that was important if I need her need it you know I we got phones I got texts I got can go if I really need
to see the person we can find a place to meet not a big deal and um she did not have an issue with the ACE program and the what she called the central office which is all the school department the
back office uh stuff uh in a school. Um and um she said that would not be an issue for her. She said um she wouldn't mind it being in Turkey Hill, but she says it needs a lot of renovations and
she would like to have a little more space. So that got the committee and now she said but she said that's her opinion. she needs to talk to the school committee and so I haven't heard anything since then but um so I guess
the question is going to be is if we don't the original plan was to have the Ritter building be large enough to hold ACE and the central office of the schools if you don't need that it's going to be a lot smaller maybe even doesn't even have to be have an addition to it I don't know we haven't looked at
it that much um but um there might be some major changes to to to that because of that. And again, that was only the superintendent's off-the cuff opinion. Maybe the school committee will tell her something different. Um, and then I, as I
mentioned before, we did talk a lot about really thinking that should have much more than just, oh, fix up town hall, fit up fix up the Ritter building. We need a long-term plan as we're mentioning. So, um, that's a an interesting thing. And poor uh Dave Blad
who's been on the committee for like 30 years probably. Uh he's kind of uh you know going through the the third rendition of of this. So it's uh we will get it done. I I I know we will
come up with something. We also want to think that we're going to have to pay another cost for another architect or the same architect to do more plans. This is how many times that we've altered these plans, right? Right. Um, and how many times are we going to do it? So, we want to think about Yep. That's the that's always the risk
you have when you spend the money. You don't know how happened before in this town. And, you know, but it's it is not the best way to spend money on wasted things. How advanced does the project have to be
before we would ask the town to vote on it? like could you put like a a bracketed stipulation in there like if we can do it for this amount to this amount would you guys go for it type of thing. the what we had done the last time and that's my only experience with
a building project in a town uh was that we hired an architect firm that does this kind of stuff and they went through not all they I mean they didn't go through all the work like they didn't go down and dig down because they were going to put a basement in Ritter so they didn't drill down and say okay we
found no uh nothing bad down there and so we know that's like they didn't do that they just kind of said we made these assumptions and based on that this is what things will cost and they you know they they're supposed to know that kind of stuff and so that's where the
numbers came from. Um okay and they also designed it and knew how you know and got input from from the town and the school and and our committee about how they wanted things to work. You know they wanted this the
guys over here next to those guys and you know all that stuff. So they built what we kind of gave them the information to and then gave us a number and it's was expensive but architects are expensive so that's what it is but
they had you know to to before we would put the first shovel in the ground they would have to had done a lot more work um and spent a lot more money um of our money to to get the plans to where you could start building well maybe a quarter of the way there.
I just kind of wonder like do we even need to go that far with it, right? I mean, you can you can kind of RS means your way through a building renovation and come up with some pretty accurate numbers. Like if we know we're going to take a building and renovate it, it's
going to cost you, you know, $500 a square foot, say, to do it and such. and just throw that number at, you know, you have a a 3,000 foot facility that you're going to be redoing and then so go 30%
high, 30% low on that number and take that and say, you know, if if the project is in this range and we can do it for this range, you know, what's the try to get some feedback from the town, you know, on that before we throw
$100,000 at an architect to do something that's going to go in a drawer and never be seen again. But I think that it so the question your initial question is how much of the developed before we ask the town money and the
answer for that is it can be at any level. The more you go into the design I mean aren't you a civil engineer? Chemical. Oh chemical. Okay. I thought you were civil. Um the more you go into design development the more accurate your your estimate is. Mhm.
So like Marshall Park the that was a very solid estimate the last estimate they got because they they got it to the point like the design development was done just needed to create the the construction documents which is to get
that information. I believe at some point Michael Ray said that like a conceptual design which was what they had is considered like at a 20%. Mhm. So your level of confidence is much less. But you can ask the town for any
for money at any point. But the thing is the town needs to the voters need to like the project and most of most times if especially if it's a new building, they want to see what it's going to look like. But I think you're correct on if we are if they realize that we have the
square footage needed without the if we're not putting the schools in the ACE program at the Ritter do we have the square footage needed in between the buildings that we have where we don't need an addition then I think a a plan of the way you're describing is feasible
of just you know the cost construction because that's actually also a very standard price cost per construction inside. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and and you can always like, you know, cheap some things down to get it to where in the range you want it to be.
Anyway, um I just I just see a lot of these costs that we're throwing at our designs and everything that we do two, three times that, you know, it's not like we're flushed with cash here that we can just keep throwing it out the
door. and we want to do things for the town, but you know, I my memory is not perfect on this, but I thought there was some kind of requirement that
the state has that you got to do certain things. So, I remember the architect had to be certain things. So, I might be wrong, but I I think there's a process that the state says you got to go through when you're going to do these things. Also, the other thing is you don't want to go, "Hey, town, it's $18
million to to do all these things and they go, "Oh, okay, great." Then you come back and go, "Oh, it's 27." We need another, you know, that's the last thing you want to do. So, the number that we had in the last one was high. We, you know, maybe with inflation
and stuff, maybe it wouldn't be, but it was a very liberal number. A lot of extras put in there. Um, so we knew we were confident that if things went the way we thought it would, we would come in at
that or less. And that's what you want to do. You want to say, "Oh, we got another 2 million now. We can do something else, right?" Or do that like they were talking about doing I think if we had extra money, I think they were talking about doing uh solar panels on the parking lot to generate revenue,
right? So things like that. So um but you're right. I I totally totally agree that it's I I hate wasting a quarter. So when you waste thousands and thousands of dollars, it's it goes against everything.
And I've seen a ton of cities and towns take huge hits on like environmental impact like assessments. Um so when we're talking about these projects and like you said, they went into the Brit building and they went down but they didn't go down. Like all it takes is one they found a dinosaur under there.
Great. or oil. That'd be awesome. But yeah, generally that doesn't happen. It's usually something bad. Um so we have to account for that. Could even be better. Um but yeah, I've seen some towns and cities like their budget double because of an environmental impact
and that can still happen. I mean it we it can happen even if you do everything perfectly because you don't know until you start digging. Yeah. All right. Does anybody have any topics for future meetings?
As I said, I I'd love to talk to the the the new finance uh people for the uh for the town and for the school to to see what they found and what their first or
second impressions are now. um what things they would think needs to be changed and what things uh that they think that we would need to know. I'd like to see how they're working together, how they're collaborating across finances or if they are.
Yeah. Well, yeah, they're probably hopefully they are, but also they're probably busy trying to doing their own first. Yeah. Riding their bicycle by themselves until they figure out what what what's going on. then they can talk to each other.
But they should be doing both. It's it's a very difficult thing. I I I still don't It's still I understand why the state likes it this way, but school and all the other departments being separated, it just it just makes it
harder to run a good town. Mhm. this value. I understand why, but it's still it's it separates people and it's it's it's not a it's not the the best thing. Well, with our new departments, we they can run separately but collaborate together.
Right. So hopefully that's what's going to happen. Right. Right. In management, you know, you try to prevent silos. Oh, this group does this, this group. You try to, you know, have them all kind, you know, you can you have sometimes you need silos to do certain things, but have them work
together. And here we got two silos that are basically supposed to be apart and it's just just doesn't it doesn't work well. It it makes it harder
and their jobs are hard enough without making it harder, right? Okay. um upcoming tribard meetings. Again, there won't be any meetings in October and probably not on November 12th. Probably later in November will be
the next meeting. Um next finance committee meeting October 23rd and then the special town meeting November 18th. So we'll be voting on the warrants on the 23rd. Yeah, we should have the town manager here for that because they they
she would be the one or other people who would have to explain what some of these things are, right? Aren't we supposed to also have a hearings like hearings posted for money articles?
Well, I think if we did that, we'd still have a meeting on the 13th that we could use for that or we could have public comments after we voted on the 23rd.
I I my point was more like I think there needs to be an official finance committee hearing about for Tom meeting article, right? That's what I thought. Yeah, you have a special town meeting. Yeah. When when is do we remember how how much
time before the town meeting it has has to be? There's 14 days. So that would make it October 23rd. October 23rd. Yep. So that's our next meeting. So yeah.
So So that means we need to get that published like who takes care of the publishing on the ledger because we got it published on the official uh newspaper record. I think when Chris gets back he can set it up with the
with the powers that be. I'm not even sure how you do it, but we Yeah. So, that'll be a busy meeting. We're going to go through all the warrants and have ours. Yeah. There any comments from the public?
Do we have anybody? Oh, your Zoom got deleted. You closed the the laptop and the Zoom got hung up. I think she's only managing it here. They have it on in there, correct? Yeah. Okay. Oh, I don't think anybody was on it anyway.
Oh, Renee, do you have public comment? You're just visiting us today. We love it. I think she lives here. Do you? I knew it. You live here.
Nobody's there. Nobody's there. Okay. Nobody there. That's good. That is good. Make a motion to adjurnn, I guess. Motion to adjurnn. So moved. Second. All in favor? Bye. Bye.