##VIDEO ID:xixCOgSllfA## and almonds and coconut are you not a dinner I was gonna say are you not a nut person no am but I'm I'm explaining why that's actually a balance don't tou lollipop I can bring it home and we could meet at the funeral home tomorrow if I bring that candy and I want you know that I am very unprepared I brought Lauren's laptop instead of mine so I I'm very loged did you uh mean to do that or just grabbed the wrong one I grabbed the wrong one when I was leaving now lost with do you also have a octopus sticker on I do not that up not okay let's get this meeting started so we're going to open the Parks Commission meeting for Wednesday October 23rd at 700 p.m. at the Ritter building lower conference room in ordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and it will be broadcast over the lunenberg public access Channel and uploaded to the Lun lunenberg access YouTube channel the agenda lists all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items may not listed may also be brought up for discussion to to the extent permitted by open meeting law so we'll open the meeting with taking attendance so we have Karen Menard we have Colleen Shapiro we have Chris Sullivan Tim Lis and myself andita shers also present tonight with us is Angela Clement our Recreation director okay so um Chris is not Chris Ruth is not able to be here tonight he is actually attending the capital committee meeting this evening so there will be no update from him but if we have any questions for him we can put those together and I'll send him an email tomorrow so if anything comes up during the evening um did want to have discussion though about the concept of um requesting that we get regular updates as to where our different budget accounts stand um from Chris and I don't know if we want that to be monthly bonly quarterly um but I do think that it's it's behooves us to stay on top of where we're you know where our spending is in each of these accounts so does anyone have any thoughts on that I don't know if we necessarily need it every month but um or at least a detailed version every month but it would be nice to maybe B monthly or quarterly or something to have one um with an emphasis on the closing um one to be done you know maybe it'll be different I just felt like this past um budget season when we finally looked at them it was like August and then there was a scramble to try to get some stuff adjusted before it actually closed out and I'd like to avoid that the next time around so the June one is a definite yeah for sure before year end a lot of our expenditures are sort of seasonally or whatever right like with the program the programming is kind of season it's not no it seems to be pretty I mean definitely heavier with transaction wise in the Summer with the beach stuff but there's transactions that go on okay so quarterly is good yeah I would think so because the summer that's the bulk of the summer would be July August so we get it normally we like tastes we get like a good influx beforehand we post it beforehand on my re like the turn at that point um it's obviously a little bit okay sooner so I think I would say probably if I look at the the funds coming in it's probably biggest from I would say like April May June are probably the busiest okay yeah I think quarterly is fine um if it's a simple snapshot it's easy to do just like looking at it monthly and is you know it won't take long so if it's if it's easy you know mhm having a monthly deal just to skim in case something stands out is fine but I think quarterly anyway should be and I it would be nice if maybe the first one that is presented whether it be Chris or Angela that sort of I think we need a good walk through of what like what we're looking at um there's different accounts um it can be sometimes tricky to figure out which one you're looking at if you're not used to looking at them um you know what various things mean um you know just to so everybody understands okay well we could ask him um ask Chris to have it um the first one be done at our next meeting and it could be for the first quarter so the first three months of you know FY 25 okay that sounds great thank you okay great thank you uh Recreation director update Angela so I'll just go over some of the stuff we have going along um coming up I am trying to look a little further ahead just in terms of getting more um registrations in early so that we get our numbers we met everything like I said we start pickle ball soon that's been full for like two months now already um I am looking to see if I can I did send you guys an email about doing Thursdays but I will close on Mondays and Wednesdays now I was hoping to see if I could figure out something for Tuesday nights just to have pickle ball maybe run Tuesday nights um because we do have volleyball coming in on Thursdays uh the registrations are open for volleyball so I did already do that we have some interest in that there would be a beginners so no experience required for that and then right after that um which would be an hour and a half then we'd have a two hours of like intermediate Advanced players going um we did them in terms of sessions so we're already opened up two sessions for that just so people can go ahead and sign up that's not starting till I think mid December uh other than that we did offer another thing with the painted goat it's um clay so we're doing kids and adults we're just pay backing those off each other as well so we'll do backtack programs there a lot of our programs are going to be taking place in the classroom because we are using the gym for either pickleball or volleyball or um we also have some like rental type of things that are in there as well um so other than that the person who does the stem program snapology we've had pretty good numbers with them and we usually have pretty good success he asked me if we wanted to do basically like three other sessions right out the gate um I'm trying to get more information on what he'd want to offer for those said we usually have pretty good luck with those numbers wi so I wouldn't mind doing that um but that would be basically like five week programs running um other than that volleyball would start like I said December pickle ball would start um about as few weeks and then for February and April vacation I was looking towards that U we've never been able to offer more than really one program running at once but now that we have a classroom space I'm planning on doing full day stem program in the classroom and then offering like a morning multisports and then like something else in the afternoon just so parents if they need like an 8 to 3:30 they have something all day so that's just looking ahead I haven't offered anything um but I know both vendors are interested in doing that um other than that I don't really have much for updates um I do want to start reaching out to the lifeguards now just to see who is interested in coming back next year just so we can get ahead of that um the programs aren't offered as much to get their lifeguard certifications it's really hard to find those now so I know last year we kind of ran into that issue where I don't if you remember um we were starting the season but somebody wouldn't be like B Bally officially hired until they got their certifications which came really close to that date so I'm hoping we can get people certified before that even happens this year so just even just getting a number of how many people are interested in coming back so I know how many people we need to hire okay Angela a few years back we did a um certification class um with Orchard Hills okay um and that was um I think they promoted their end and then we might have done some promotion from our end with our sign up um you know through us um but that may be something to consider I don't know how easy or hard it was I know they're they're having less people that are actually certified to instruct the instructors now so I think that's like part of the issue why it's so hard to find the classes but I'll I'll look at that um that is the one I think I offered to a lot of people was Orchard Hills and by the time I got the information on the dates it was already full okay so it happened really quickly um the other important piece is that um we had the issue of only having Liz be WSI certified and if you're running any like kind of classes or anything like that or swim lessons you need to have someone WSI certified so we weren't able to run Saturday um swim lessons that definitely took I would say a hit on some of our numbers and I think a lot of parents who are working that's hard for them to get there on weekday so i' really like to be able to offer that again um we do reimburse for that as well but I don't know if that's like people didn't want to do their WSI because they had to do their other lifeguard certification as well um I I think it's depend is coming back this year but I'm hoping somebody would be willing to do that or we can find a new lifeguard that's willing to get that WSI certification okay um the other thing that um Karen and I had been talking about was um really kind of this winter taking a good look at what do we actually need for lifeguard STA and um you know so that can be part and parcel of you know looking to see who's actually willing to come back and you know you know we may find that we're able to make some changes um you know it'll take looking at some of that data that we had talked about in terms of people who actually check in you know on the different days and so you know that's something that you know we plan to kind of put on the agenda for maybe starting in December my only other thought that I don't know if you're this is just like a thought but I don't you my right mention I was last meeting the meeting after um possibly doing like you know kayak rentals pad rentals stuff like that on the opposite side of the beach where it's flat because there was a staircase going down I don't know I haven't looked into like cost to get all of those things um I think we could get a good amount of money back from renting them but we would definitely need a lifeguard to like standard there and make sure everyone has their life jacket stuff like that so I think depending on if we're able to do that the numbers may not have to change but it would just be shifted to a different kind of position so that's just something to think about in that all right good um I don't really have anything else General unless you I have stuff for like the spring there can we go back to Tuesday nights so you were saying that Tuesdays you will need help I didn't offer it yet because of having it's hard to one we don't have a bunch of keys right to have people lock up um Everybody staff wise kind of has like a code to lock up the building um you don't really need it to lock up the building you put can actually just lock it that way but if you're unlocking it you need a code um so Keys is probably a big issue with that if we can get enough people to do Thursdays I think that's great and in that case maybe I could just submit like a this is the dates I need and like you can sign up for whatever dates you can do yeah I say I say Tuesdays are Thursdays I can do okay it would just be helpful um I would love to offer a night pickle wall um I we have a lot of popularity in that right now so that would be huge if we can MH um and the only night that would be like we're not really locking up is Fridays I don't really have anything running on Fridays um so I think that'd be good if we can do the Tuesdays and Thursdays and I can cover Mondays and Wednesdays um but like I said we can do a thing and offer a spreadsheet I just don't want to offer it and then run into an issue of like Staffing it yeah okay well when you're ready send that spreadsheet out to us and try to fill and we'll figure out the logistics of keys and all that stuff yeah I think a lot of my like night programs didn't start until like January last year so I'm a little ahead of it this year um so I think that's helpful that we can probably offer it a little bit later we don't have to start like in December but it would just be helpful to have being able to offer that yeah okay all right good so [Music] um the all vendor fair in the spring where do we stand with that so I met again with Jo see we're just kind of tossing a little bit more details around um at this point I'd like to kind of bring up dates with you guys and see if you have any preference um we were thinking like beginning of may just in terms of like the rain kind of trying to absorb a little bit um and dry out that area CU it does get kind of wet um sorry where was this going to be at so like basically we shut down Memorial Drive okay um which would just give us like a parking thing but I have been kind of like circling around where we could do parking and I'm thinking like if we've locked off part of it's basically like middle school high school parking is what we proba to use for that area and then obviously anything over here Town Hall um so that's what we're looking to do is probably shut down Memorial just for safety reasons um I did reach out to the police department just to see about like details um what I need to do how many they think we need and stuff like that um I just did that today so I haven't heard back from them um so it basically be like all Memorial Drive okay so the vendors would be yeah so um we'd be hopefully using TCP gym the calf area there we' have bathrooms in there the library's interested hopefully they can open up the tables outside and whatever they want to run inside um they haven't literally let me know I do um adult Activity Center they're having a new staff member come in I think the new year so I don't know exactly what they're going to be able to contribute but I think like least is the patio area L music I think that's probably like we at least be able to do that and then Boys and Girls Club wants to do a Touch a Truck Event so I thought that was a great idea for them to do some fundraising so a little bit of the details are up in the air but it basically did that whole space and then like where the playground is and that grass area right there nice the Agricultural Fair I don't know if you went to that weo they just had yeah it was all in that pretty much in that grassy area in between TCB and the playground and they actually had a number of venders and they had the animals for petting and they had tractors and stuff and they had hay ride they had music they didn't have it there wasn't a ton of food there was just the maple Fred's Maple truck but um I was surprised at how much actually fit in that space okay yeah that's good and also we could use the front area too where TCP is they have a big brass area there I think spacewise we do great I think it's more like parking I think you're all right because that's where the um vendor fair was the AR Artisan Market thing was and um they just they walked off I don't even know if they Clos Memorial Drive for that they might have they people just park and they like over at the high school there was a really cool so last Friday I ran like a stem program and I got out at like seven and they had the Boys and Girls Club had their haunted house thing going on they had a tractor basically doing Loops but Jose's idea was maybe having people park at like the fields and doing like using the tractor back and forth um as maybe possibly an option just for additional parking um but the dates that we were hoping which I had in mind 510 or 5:17 they're both Saturdays um we can definitely talk about doing a Sunday instead I just I know last time I was concerned it would confli meeting 510 right yeah is it no the first Saturday it's the third me voting is the 17th right I think so you want to not do it up against the voting maybe so Michelle thought it was 510 for the boys and girls club so I wrote 510 is when she thought Town voting was so I just need to get those dates before I think town meeting is what by the charter or whatever is the first Saturday in May and voting is 14 days following I think those are how it goes set in stone sort of things yeah is that confirm that that's right that's right so 510 is doable then yes okay the 11th is Mother's Day so I would just think about that if I mean I don't care but that's the Sunday right yeah it's on Sunday right so you said you would consider a Sunday or wouldn't consider that Sunday yeah I think I prefer I don't care so like I get it some people are very like yeah I right whatever but some people you know intense they're going to be able to pick out gifts for their mom that day so the day before would be perfect because the vendors will have Aon yeah so we don't have to like obviously figure that out now but if anyone finds any conflicts or anything I think 510 would be great parking just be mindful of use soccer okay the typically you early in the day the front field wouldn't be used but Fields inside the fence would be used so people send the either on the school on the the main school entrance the School Bel lower laot too just coordinating with L fine just to help you with a park in the lower I'm never here on Saturday you park in the lower tennis court lot or that kind of I do have should park for L anyway so the kids are cling that fence and going in and so forth but that happens so but it's great timing with Lia there because you have other towns coming here people that would want to more but just from a parking standpoint that you would potentially run into and it's there maybe three games there maybe okay one game maybe four gaming for until you know okay and I don't know if we specifically want to have like a certain budget in mind about how much we're willing to contribute to it um just because my brain automatically went to like the fun things and not like the tents and the chairs and any of potties and trash and stuff like that um so I don't know if we want to maybe think about like a certain number or I can just run by what I was thinking with you guys we can figure out if that's doable um dunk tank I definitely want a dunk tank well and that's one thing I said to the police department I I went to other towns things and they actually did dump tanks for like police officers and stuff volunteering and then like police did like fundraisers for that I'm like that I don't mind like feel SEL we selectman volunteered to be in the tank I like your answer so I think I think that something like that would be huge to do so I definitely want to do a dunk tank um you know all that stuff bouncy houses face painting I feel like somebody in lunberg there used to be a dump pan every there was one at the Turkey Hill something or other I remember there was oneke I feel like somebody in town had dunp so I don't know let me see if I can yeah but I think you didn't have to rent you know if you cannot rent something like that if somebody there used to be one at several things around town that Mak sponsorship OPP there too sponsor typ mean there there's definitely sponsorship opportun which will help with the budet involved with that you know the lbba right yeah I was adding yeah J in there for basketball I was and so she'd be handling like all like the tents and stuff like that the actual vendor stuff besides what we're really doing I said I would do like the trash the tents table stuff like that and then the fun stuff but um mostly other than that any tents or anything food trucks I think it's really going go through her um cuz she has like vendors already like that she was thinking that would be interested okay the U I think you're saying the not the Touch a Truck was it the agricultural fail yeah they had touch a tractor or whatever right yeah the animals they brought in I don't know how exensive it was but I from what I heard my well my kids went but I wasn't in town my wife brought them but she said it was a huge hit I know was good pick and farm that's so they had alpacas and goats and like that's what I'm thinking also as an option I think yeah the only bad part is like I don't know how messy the clean up is after so we did like an event with good pick and farm but it was like bunnies and Ducks so was really like easy the kids kept on their laps but um bigger animals I don't really know I did actually email them about that and just contract yeah yeah what you bring in I fed the farm for buil yoga and it was awesome but they were just like you left and they were like I'm gross car small they were like fairly small like 10 areas I mean not like teeny but I mean I don't I'm sure they right the alaca farm too they always bring their around and stuff right P page always they seem to be willing to bring their so my my goal by next meeting is for us just maybe like half the dates set and stone and then at that point I think it'll be easier for me to get my quotes on everything and figure out what's doable um do you have any like suggestions or questions that are you looking for music yes but I I don't know like I I think jie might had somebody in mind but I think suggestions isn't a bad thing well if she doesn't have somebody already okay I have a contact with the bandal know they're playing at Sunday one before you just Nam music I have a huge PA speaker that they use what now we have another suggestion yeah I speaker with a tripod and all that more of a hobby but we could just I don't want to know what you do put it on an iPod and let it rip I think her whole suggestion too was maybe like we'll do like either a DJ live music or something like that um but in maybe two different sections so I think I don't know what she said would work better I think she maybe wanted to do like a DJ type thing in the Pavilion area and then maybe a live band in another section um so I'll have to look see what she was thinking for that okay so yeah we'll try to we'll try to wrap up the date etc for the next meeting I'll put that back on the agenda and I do think you're better off bringing us a money figure than us trying to come up with something I'll just have to get like quotes before I even sure know in my brain how you estimated right that might be something we can talk about after we get the first budget report yeah no IDE got none okay anything else for us Angela I think that's it for me okay all right well thank you so much okay the next thing on the agenda is the Boys and Girls Club um Polar Plunge and Katie is here here remotely hi hi so where do we stand with this so can you guys hear me okay we can okay um it was approved so we are good to go for Saturday November 30th and the time frame we were looking at is between noon and 2 um don't think that we'll need a really big window in terms that people are going to be jumping in and jumping out of the water um there's a couple of things that are outstanding in my world I think that we need two different waivers um I know that I've heard the town has their own waiver right because you're doing something we're doing something at the Town property um so we want to have liability wave from you but we also want to create our own from the Boys and Girls Club if there is a document that somebody could send to me um that'd be great so that way there I can include it in the um we're not going to call it an application but for those that are interested in participating in the event I want to have that in their um their packet when they sign up so uh is there anybody that has that read readily available me I think I have it I'm actually looking right now but before I send it to you I just want to I want to run a by an and our um town our current interim Town manager because this would have this would be a couple of years old and I want to make sure that there's nothing that needs to be changed on it but I will the same way the US like the Sports leag basketball kind of do believe so I probably have a current one that they sent for basketball um would be good the inter look at that um thinking about that too how how much in advance do you want that because we're trying to think about our process and timing of when the participant sign up for this and when you need or want the waivers for because there can be some that they just sign them on the spot and that's good enough um or do you want them in advance and how long in advance I don't think we need them in advance I think like even signing the day of as long as one of two things is going to have have to happen either somebody from the Boys and Girls Club is going to have to verify that both of these documents are in and you know that person sort of not be approved by us but we know who that person is to verify everything or whoever lets you wi that day which will most likely be somebody from the commission um will have to verify that everybody's got their waivers in but I think as long as you I'm fine with the boys and girls club just collecting both of them and you know dotting the eyes and crossing the tees and because I think your liability is the same as ours yeah another thing that we brought into um fruition today is the fact that a lot of our members who are going to be doing it are not 18 so they're going to have a GU have to a guardian sign with them um me personally I kind of prefer the inperson but I know that's probably not possible for everybody um so I'm thinking about that too because we're going to have our own liability waiver and we just need to make a decision of how we want to have that um finalized in the end to make sure that there's no um fraudulent signatures yeah yeah so I mean to be honest with you you guys are just G to have to do the best that you can do stuff happens and it you know it if somebody truly wants to have a forge signature or you know say that somebody's mother is their mother just to get it signed then they're going to do that regardless so um I think as long as you're diligent about um making sure that both forms are in we should be we should be good okay I'm coming up empty-handed on the way we my email so I'll have to look at my um I'll have to look at my um my files when I get home to my laptop um okay and I will follow up with um Anita and the town manager um this week if you don't hear from me say by Monday can you send um me an email my email address is just K Menard lunberg ma.gov um that way it well you can poke me CU I often forget things that's okay um so Menard with an i or a y um m n a d so it's kme n d lunenberg ma.gov okay this is GNA drive me crazy now that I can't find it m too we'll get it I just kind of figured for us because we for us to have our own waiver I want to kind of like mimic a little bit of what you're saying but I want to have the liability we have somebody on our board that can help out with our legalities and just make sure that the wording is correct on our end of thing so um but we do want to have both um number of lifeguards I know that we had talked about this before in terms of there are volunteer lifeguards that we can certainly get however it's uh cold water so the cold water certif ification or the understanding of what the needs are because of the specific event um I just don't know where we stand with that Katie tell me um what was the fire chief's response to this does is there a requirement from him that he have people there so he was on board that they would have people there I don't know the capacity in terms of what they can provide for emergency services so I I don't know if it's worth going back to him and saying this is our goal like we our goal is 50 participants um we're not going to have them in the water all at once um so if we have to do waves of let's say 10 at a time um is that feasible for them and what does that look like like what kind of support do they need is it worth us getting volunteers uh for regular lifeguard services or I don't know so it's that's kind of a tricky one I mean I know we have people that are dive certified because they do all of that I would talk to the chief about it if you need lifeguards if you need cold water lifeguards or if he will have people there that will fill that yeah requirement okay before you go and double up on something I would just have a clear discussion with him about what he thinks is needed and what he can provide and then go from there are we going to have an area cordoned off so that it's you know very limited in terms of how deep how far out these people go um so do you have I know and I apologize I'm very new to the area but I feel like there's uh there have been buoys that have been yeah the buoys are out for the winter is there a way to put them back in in I don't know in terms of where it's a very long process it's not something that can be done quickly and it's the size of our buoys um would would Mark the like they're big enough to Mark the entire Beach property and there's something that require people staff to go in the water to okay install and then in the water to come out um I mean if you're going with 10 if you're limiting it to about 10 people um the water's going to be cold enough I don't think we're going very far I would sorry there are also like landmarks of where like the buoys were like on each end of the beach from the beginning to the end so you can kind of see where like the line would be I don't know if that helps well we're trying to we're thinking more like we don't want people going out exactly so one like you'll see it okay like there's like where they always like station the I can't imagine them going out that far yeah it's you'll see like you can see the landmark of where the boobies usually go cuz that stays in the water so you can see how far out like the bo typically are okay all right anything else something that's just something to take into consideration as well too because I again like talking with the chief I just want to eliminate as many risks as we can possible right so um if there's any way to kind of you know what determines a plunge so to speak um and I would think that that the students that are signing up for this I mean just going over the ground rules before they get in the water of you know this is a plunge this isn't Social Hour floating you know yeah you're not really swimming we're going to go in and plunge and come back out and let the next group of 10 go and that's it yeah and I think that's part of our our verbiage in our waiver right like we need to kind of reiterate with that them too like say this is not like if you are not a good swimmer if you don't qualify for these types of things then please like stay out of the warrain from doing the um the the thing but yeah yeah it should be a fun event okay I'm excited for it I think the kids are going to be so jazzed about it because they're they actually get to like raise the money and be a part of the contributions for the club so I see this as being a very successful event um or at least you know involved for them um in terms of participants at a time so that one I will check with the chief right because that one will be determined Upon Our need for volunteer lifeguards right you mean the qu the number of people that are going in at a time yeah so yes because well we we know how many lifeguards we need for a pool situation but we've never fully been we're not 100% clear on the number of lifeguards we need for a beach situation um so we've sort of been working off of the pool situation which I think is like 25 swimmers to one lifeguard but it's cold water so um right you know I I think that um I think as as long as because the goal here is to make sure everybody's safe go in come out and are going home without severe hypothermia so I think that um you know if your numbers are reasonable I think you're you're okay like you know I can't imagine you putting a 50 to 100 people in at once but you know no 10 to 20 people but at the same time you know kids if you have a larger group signing up they probably have more fun going in as a group of 10 versus you know so and I think that's unless Chief Sullivan says otherwise I mean okay I don't want to micromanage you either and I don't think you know whoever you're getting for to your lifeguards are going to want to you know be there for hours on end either um yeah so yeah they could to adhere to whatever the chief feels as appropriate in terms of and with what they're providing versus the number of lifeguards you need and so with and the kind of lifeguards you need you know some of their services might offset the kind of lifeguards you need right so I think that's that's fine okay um one other question I just thought of too so the actual U the beach house I think you you had mentioned that we were able to use that if it was open and closed but we were responsible for any trash or belongings or anything that we brought into the facility the water should be shut off that that facility shut off they were painting in there so I don't think so okay so I my guess though is by the end of November our bathroom facilities is are going to be shut down but um um you will be able to come and go out of that building and as long as you take your trash with you um it'll be fine and then if somebody could just you know make sure the floor like basically leave it the way you found it type situation so um you know when the kids are gone because they'll probably be tracking in sand we'll need to do a a sweep of the floor um opening and locking the facility is that somebody that I would need to get permission from or I'm gonna guess it's probably gonna be me um Chris Sol might be around but one of us from the commission either most likely Chris or I where it's Thanksgiving weekends will'll be there to um 30 thank the 30th it's a Saturday not you're in you're not here closing it might that's right I'll do the whole thing I'll plan on being here Katie okay I will get more information in terms of the open and close and have that for you so at least you can plan accordingly yeah it's not a big whatever whatever works will work for me okay I don't want to make it a huge ask I know that it's good putting it on my calendar now okay thanks for volunteering for them we will also have hot chocolate and donuts that are um being donated so there's that you'll find me sitting in the corner eating it's fine because I might be right there with you works for me you won't be out swimming pasta I will not be out swimming I don't need any Tre no further than here when I'm treading water for all two hours you come you've come too far I think we need the life gra all right well Katie thank you we will be in touch regarding the waiver form I'm gonna put this on the agenda again for next time you know not that you need to attend but you know just to kind of recap what we've learned over the month yeah okay with your yeah send an email with your updates or whatnot and I can highlight those or whatever if you can't attend perfect yeah um if I can attend what's the next date it would be the thir Wednesday likely would be the 20th of [Music] November well that's soccer B I'm not here either that night so we'll we'll let you know okay all right well we'll figure it out but either way I mean we have good connections anyways okay great okay thank you so much all right thank you take care um just before we actually start Marshall Park I'm assuming Mr Rog is here for public comment on Marshall Park I didn't know if it's something that he wanted I just don't want it to get lost if it's something that he feels as important contribution to our discussion that we're about to have I want to make sure he has the opportunity to oh definitely right I appreciate that I just thought you can come to the table if you'd rather be closer Dave um but Mrs Rogers is on I wasn't sure if she had public comment as well so she she is on maybe she was just missing supervising you just want to see when you're going to be done anyway thank you um I I did want to listen in on on the uh Marshall Park uh situation but if I could make a couple of comments based upon what I heard so far um it's a pet peeve of mine um but it's a good pet peeve and uh I I think that that we should have an American flag and I would appreciate it being a 100% disabled veteran from viam if we could uh have the Pledge of Allegiance when when meetings exist okay uh that would be great um so having said that um yeah I'm I'm Blown Away by I'll organized you out and what you're doing so I'll just sit back and listen to what uh what transpires and you tell me when I can speak and all the other thing is this is really patient uh but you I I think it would be great for to have a time for a public discussion uh on the agenda so that people can can so there's one at the end under number 14 there is yep oh my God okay it's all right um we're a little looser though yeah admittedly we're a little looser so we kind of allow throughout my item fine maybe we should reword that so it's more yes probably not lost in the whole thing can I make sort of a public slash committee comment before we break into all of this um Marshal Park discussion y I might be making that let's see I didn't bring my my my home notes let me see if I sent myself okay um and I did write it so just be patient with me um so the new cost estimate came came in um the very beginning of October um to say to you guys that I have gone around and round and lost sleep over this is is absolutely no exaggeration um this is a project that we've been working on for so long and have so many man hours in that regardless of what decision we make tonight it is um it's critical that we acknowledge the number of hours that everybody has put in from myself and Anna walkwood to this current commission to previous commissions it's taken a ton of man hours to get to where we are um so I do think that um we are going to have to seriously consider pausing this project and defining what that pause means um but I did want to go back on a little bit of the history and how we got to where we are right here right now um so the idea for the Marshall Park overhaul was first proposed by park somewhere around 2020 it was added to the capital plan and approved at the May 2021 annual town meeting to begin the master plan process the project then went before three additional Town meetings for various things all passing at the vote we selected and began working with wola in December of 21 we held a series of public meetings throughout 22 and 23 the initial cost estimate um based on the conceptual design came in around 5.2 million however after the schematic design process and identifying drainage issues a new estimate was completed and and that raised the figure that was done in January of 24 that raised the figure to about $10 million despite this we continued moving forward and our then chair met with the town manager to to devise a funding plan the plan was for the commission to request 5.2 million at the May 2024 town meeting which matched Our Land and Water Conservation fund Grant which would then secure the final piece of funding needed for that Grant to move forward however the town manager requested that we postpone until special town meeting due to budget and override concerns we agreed and we held off for this upcoming meeting in the meantime we entered the Final Phase of hiring and selecting rdla for the Project's completion a third third cost estimate was done by rdl's rdl's estimator and it came in a few weeks ago very beginning of October at $14 million to say I was shocked as an understatement after discussions with the design team it became clear that the earlier estimates were significantly underestimated believe me when I tell you that I asked Anita if we could burn the current cost estimate cuz I thought it was wrong little did I know after digging through it it was actually the initial cost estimates that appeared to be wrong for example the poured rubber surface for the playground was estimated in January of 2024 at $112 per square foot but the latest estimate placed it at $32 per square foot upon further investigation I found that3 to $34 per square foot has been the market rate for the past few years this is just one example of what I believe wor false faulty estimates to be clear the parks did nothing wrong in this process we hired qualified firms and trusted them to provide accurate estimates additionally if there hadn't been delays in drafting rfps and signing contracts by the town Administration we would have been having these discussions months ago and could have planned more effectively now we find ourselves in this situation so I think we need to make some decisions tonight one option would be to pause the project and ask for the warrant article to be skipped over while we work out a funding plan with the increased estimate or do we move forward with the remaining design process with the funds we do have available with no construction being started and also request to skip over the Warren article or do we do something totally different and do we move ahead with the article um in conjunction with one of the above in hopes of potentially preserving that $1 million Land and Water Conservation fund Grant the amount of work we've put into this is substantial and a million dollars is a lot to lose I'm not sure what the solution is going to be tonight interested in hearing what the discussion is but that's just what some thoughts that have been running through my head over the past few weeks of losing sleep us that was a good summary Ken thank you appreciate you doing that so um I'm not going to bother to repeat all the things that Karen just said you said it very succinctly um but I I really do feel that we have a decision that we need to make tonight um I'm shared with some of you also that the um it appears that the selectman will not be in support of the warrant article so given that we know that there are issues with the cost estimate which would if we were to move ahead with this meaning this meaning the article at the special town meeting we know that we do not have enough money in hand already for phase one like we originally thought and we also know that we're short on time and it's highly unlikely that we could actually complete all of the park Grant related phase one stuff in time for the June 30th deadline that we need to have invoices submitted to them by because at this point you know we would have to go out to bid in December and have contracts in Hand by the end of December and goodness knows what weather will allow in terms of when we can start the actual construction you know next spring late winter so given that we're very unsure that we have the time frame to do this phase one given the fact that we know phase one will cost more than the money we have on hand and that we would need to use some of the $5.2 million that the warrant article is would be requesting that would be a um a debt um that we' be authorizing and it would be within the operating budget it would not be debt exclusion at the fall town meeting so if we're using up a good chunk of the 5.2 million to finish phase one and we know that phase two costs are also way escalated with this newest more accurate cost estimate we don't have enough to do even a phase two we can't complete that and we can't complete the work that it would be required under the land and water conservation fund Grant so what do we want to do do we want to move ahead and try to just fingers cross hope this works or do we want to say this doesn't make sense for us to push this right now let's you know complete the project design and get a a much better cost estimate early spring before next town meeting and go at this again I've been told by the chairman of the board of selectman that the selectman would support our Endeavor we brought it back to the town meeting next spring they would want it to be excluded debt not debt within the operating budget for various reasons which they can explain to us when they're ready [Music] um but you know we at least we know that we would have their support then versus now we know we would not have their support so do we move ahead knowing that it's very likely to fall apart do we say no we're not going to we're not going to put this MO motion forward at Spring Town Meeting instead we'll finish the design and work toward getting a a good cost estimate just before the next town meeting or do we just want to stop stop all work right now and just regroup and think about this and decide mean we do have the arpa funds which are available for us to use if we whatever we decide tonight we we'll need immediately need to reach out to the uh landscape design firm and the OPM firm to determine um what the estimates would be for the remaining work because right now we have not to exceed values for phase one work only so yeah so on the phase one was that 5.2 that cost sorry the phase one was what we originally thought was um $1.6 million okay just for the design no that for design and construction okay so um but what we really have um is after taking into account all of the um invoices already paid under the available money we really only have 1.22 million so we're we do not have what we originally thought we had for the phase one and even at that the um that 1.6 that we originally thought we had um that didn't take into consideration the um the new price estimate it it would have required us to um do some pretty good value engineering to bring it down to get to that 1.6 and the value engineering would mean that a lot of the required components of the park Grant work would be cut and that's when Tom scansar at the OPM and I made that phone call to uh the state um DCS to ask what does that do for our grant contract and while we were not able to speak with the woman the grant administrator that we normally work with we did speak with her colleague and they said no if you're not doing the components of what you agreed to in that Grant contract then the contract basically is null and void and you would not get reimbursements so so that's the problem with part of this right it's um you know if we decided to move forward with the $5.2 million if we don't if we just continued as is and we continueed to seek the 5.2 and we got it now we're robbing Peter to pay pa because in order to meet the requirements of the um the park Grant and everything that's in there to get the half million dollars and what we're calling phase one we need some of that $5.2 million but then we don't have enough funds there to cover the next phase that would be the land and water conservation fund pieces of it so which is $1 million right so you know now where it truly is the catch try it is and that you know the thing about it is and this is the part that's been was really hard for me is that that second grant that Land and Water Conservation fund Grant the figures that we used for that were the 10 million figure it was a second cost estimate so it's not like we were relying on the first estimate like we did for the park Grant because that's we could only use what we had available right um so we used the land and water conservation fund we used the um the figures from the second estimate which now appear to be grossly underestimated that's crazy understand how it went from five to 10 to 14 so the five to 10 actually makes a little more sense when you see where we had to go because the um the 5.2 or whatever it was that was done in the um conceptual design sure so they hadn't gone in and dog any test pits they didn't do any of that to see what drainage was going to need then they went in and did that and all of a sudden we needed all kinds of like drainage situations so that was part of there were some other things like we did see an increase in the um the playground price because the original was quoted as like a a play bark mulch type thing the second one was what we actually wanted which was a pour rubber safety service um but it just again if we were paying Peter to rob Paul it just that doesn't make any sense I wouldn't I would like to not look I don't want to say incompetent but in front of the board and then try to push this through and then ask have them ask us questions that we're not fully up to speed on but at the same time if we're pausing this project who's to say that this that cost isn't going to increase when we pick it back up with inflation and all that it's not won't no no no I mean it it will probably say it will yeah there's no there's no doubt that it will right you like pause it now and you pick it back up in a year I'm sure it's going to increase the cost and that's why it would be important that if that's the route we decided he we need to set aside some money to redo a cost estimate when we're getting ready to prepare for town meeting so that we know exactly how much we need to ask for yeah and to be clear on something too because I I actually talked with our um the select board chair today because I was I'm just super frustrated by all this frustrated not at us but at that some in some ways the town is a whole in terms of of administration because we've offered the seat at the table to be part of this process and nobody's ever taken us up on it this is not a small project this is this is a large project um you know and in in talking with him today um you know he said well if you pause the project he thought that meant stop the project I'm not suggesting that we stop it I'm when I say pause I mean pause and you know either not do anything else it's going to cost us money or if we're pausing and continuing with the design it would mean you you know do the paper design process what we have the funds for but not start any construction so in my mind cusing is doesn't mean that we're saying this project is dead we're saying we're still willing to work you know continue to work on it and coming up with a funding source if we if this project came back at 10.5 or even 11 million we'd be having a different conversation because I'd be able to sit here and say I'm okay with trying to push this forward it there's not too big the difference isn't significant enough for me to say we shouldn't but a $4 million difference between the first and the second that's enough for me to say I don't think we have a good enough funding plan and um I don't know about the rest of you but I wake up next to somebody that deals with finances for this town and I have to be able to justify to him why we're trying to ask for something that we don't have you know the best funding source for you we don't have complete answers right and it's that piece it's it's where we're going to come up with the remainder and being confident enough to stand in front of our town meeting to say this is how we're going to we're going to manage this I don't want to speculate but is this situation that we're in right now similar to what happened with the old primary building where they no it's completely different totally different okay totally different I don't know if it was like a lack of funds there NOP no that one was just there the community didn't had voted to not shot you okay any other comments concerns yeah I mean I you know I guess I Echo what Karen has said I think there's you know some fiscal responsibility that we hold um unfortunately the right word but I think we we have for the most part been left here to kind of walk through this process just as a commission uh and then rely on outside engineering sources to help us with with that process unfortunately we get a bad estimate um early on um but I think without the proper it'd be difficult for me to go to a town meeting to you know talk about what I think is a really important project and one that's certainly going to have I I think a massive impact on the town in a positive way um but without knowing that we can responsibly you know have a plan to fully fund it I think we're doing a disservice to our reputation um in in the town as a whole unfortunately what would pausing it look like year well then the question becomes when we say pausing what exactly I think we need to whatever we put we need to be very clear on on what we're doing yes so that all of us are clear clear on that so we're not walking out of here after this meeting going well we just voted to pauses but nobody has any idea what that means before we talk about what pausing I just want [Music] to I agree with what everybody has said I feel like I'm so glad that you had you you read what you did and you put that out there um because it would be easy for people to assume that this happened because this commission or somebody on this commission or whatever was not doing their due diligence and that is not the case so I'm very glad that that is out there but to Chris's point I feel like we have a responsibility and to what you said there's a 4 million doll difference it's one thing you know when we're asking for $5 million and and you know there's a million and a half in Grants coming in that that were hours and hours and hours of your time and other were put in to get that and the arpa funds and whatever and to say okay we've got you know2 $3 million that we bring to this if we can get five from the town we can get this you know we've already voted for some engineering and everything and and that makes sense but to now have another $4 million that we have no idea where it's going to come from that doesn't seem responsible to me it doesn't seem like I think our responsibility at this point is to stop and say okay we have a big wrench in this and can we move forward what what are we going to do I mean I I 100% think this is this should be tremendous for the town you know I feel like this is a project that will have an impact on almost everybody in town if they choose to use it it's not a a couple of you know subgroups this could impact everybody you know but you know we I'm not willing to get up there and try to sell something that I don't believe we can sell right now you know we have to we have to say Okay this is what we have you know I really think we have to say we've been confronted with this and now we're g to look at it again but you know to throw it out to stop it and throw out the money that has been spent the time that has been spent you know I still think it's a valuable project and so I think we need to figure out what maybe a pause means because so it was a different situation with the primary but the primary building the old primary building came and went and is now knocked down we've done nothing but study and study and study and study TCP and there it is and whatever like I don't want this to fall into that wow that was a great plan that would have been a great opportunity but we spent some money on that and now that you know of the other ones right like I just for the town I just I feel like need a wind we you know I don't know I've lived in lunberg pretty much my whole life and like this could be really good for the town you know but not at this moment you know so I think I'm hearing consensus that we do not want to move this vote forward at the special town meeting in November so does somebody want to make a motion on that specific point is it withdraw is the motion withdrawing the no pass over I'll make a motion to pass over the article related to Marshall Park okay somebody want to second that I'll second it okay all in favor I I so yes there goes all my power support it's not it's not it's not at the loss okay so now we need to figure out the the next important concept of what do we do now do we want to continue and finish the design so that we have a project ready to have the town consider at the Springtown meeting with updated cost estimate numbers but it's a full design so we know exactly what we're dealing with yeah don't want to make more surises yeah I think it's going to be important to do I mean again I think everyone's saying the same thing here that this is a critical project for the town it's a it's a meaningful project for the town it's it's um not even the town it's meaningful for all the people City at this table and the people that have sat at this table before us um that have talked about it for a long time um doubtly it's going to have a big impact on on everybody and to col's point useful for anyone that wants to make it useful in town it's not a it's not designated for a for a small select group of people no it' be for all ages Lally it's really for everybody um very very inclusive um maximizing the use of a very very underutilized space in the center of town um so I think with the funds that we have available we should be completing that phase and really fully understanding what it is that we're looking at and what it actually is going to cost in a in a whole in know in a complete way so that we can approach town meeting in in May with a with a number because I don't I don't want this to lose a lot of momentum this is a little bit of wind out of the sales tonight but you know I don't want to you know just H and reset and then we're here you know a year later like colen said and we're still talking about you know a plan like we I I I you know pause to me means that we're developing a plan now to move this forward in May um and how are we how are we doing that we're shifting our our approach it's you know we need to hit and to that point too I am not really in favor unless we come down the line with the whole plan in taking anything off now obviously the grants are tied to certain things that we do and whatever but I feel like there was a lot of thought put into what was included in this there were there was Town input there was you know this the pieces of this are designed so that it does have a use to anybody in town it's it's you know and I don't want to start taking things off I don't want to dismantle I want to go forward and see what the whole project will cost and that's another concern I had about trying to finish phase one we take this off we move that around I don't really want to do that I mean and this is obviously something that Anita and I have discussed we've had the conversation with scansa and rdla and that you know what really gave me the great pause is as we were talking about the playgrounds and to have an all-inclusive playgrounds the cost was that much more because it's ramps it's all this other stuff well you know they then came back and said well you can't afford that but we might be able to do this in the 1.2 million which is totally not what we wanted and I was like why would we do that why would we go why would we keep moving forward with something that not only do we not want but our community members have been asking for a an all-inclusive playground we have one specific child that's like I want a playground to play on that I can use like everybody else she's not getting it at the primary school you know she's not going to get it at Turkey Hill next when she goes to Turkey Hill she's not getting over at Wallace Park so that left this park and I'm like I want to give you what she needs to play like everybody else so you know that gave me great pause when he was like we could do and I'm like want this but I just think that that's a you know worth saying that that's part of the reason for pausing is so that we can actually move forward and maintain the Integrity of what was planned and what was presented right Anita um the money that we have left which is really just a little bit of money from the um the Warren articles that had passed that we didn't expend and then we probably already expended that but then we have the million doll arum they didn't put any limits on the what we could and could not use that money for they just said it was towards the Marshall Park project that's my understanding from the vote so I can double check that tomorrow so I guess my question then becomes how do we get a price on what it would cost us to do the remaining design work utilizing that million dollars and how we if it comes in if they say to us well we could do it for you know I'm just going to throw out a random number we could do it for half a million because that we what we don't want to have also happen because then this will absolutely get pegged on us is they need to have those arpa funds committed by the end of the year so we need to be making quick decisions on that piece of it so that they're not the town is not losing arpa dollars right because if we don't need all of the arpa dollars to finish the design and to hold some for the updated cost estimate in the spring let's release it and let somebody else use it right unless you can think of something else that Marshall Park needs immediately that we're not thinking of because it was said from Marshall Park right yes it all depends on the future of the park I me all of the infields cuse work being redone you know it's there's quite a bit of Maintenance but again problem is getting a plan and getting it out to bid time is going to be a Monumental TK I know you know there are other departments in town that have things they can use State contract type stuff for and would love the money you know or truck or one of the long way where the new fire right right um you know just a random idea in case we run into something where they suddenly can't but we we have to do something with that arer money is um how field we weren't touching could could we do the infield of just Powell field and do some of the like does that fencing need to be replaced around Powell could we do some of that for the um with that money the only way I see feasible is if we can find someone that's at a St contract we can do it that way I don't think realistically if it's anything over 2,000 has to go out the bid has to have a plan and and it's the likelihood of getting that done in time is just is just sling on yeah okay but I agree that you know if we do have to pause we you I think it'd be wise decision soon so other people have the opportunity to do you think knowing what you know about what um what other projects could potentially do you think there's enough to cover that if we have to hand money back for arpa that do you think the selectboard will have any problem finding another project to take over in that spot um like I said again it's it probably prefer to police fireing ew buying trucks it's it's a huge cost on top of that we also have walk away the state has delayed the rule but up until a few weeks ago as of December 31st we couldn't buy trucks anymore right because of diesel and they they push that back a year okay so would we see the trucks in time before the deadline probably not but at least get the money spent committed and you know I'm sure the state would be understanding the fact that when you know the trucks this year for DPW order few years ago so I think that would be the easiest I know and we can't tell the select board what to do anyway I just want to make sure that there's not some mad rush scrambling of you know damn the Parks Commission now they're giving us back money um I mean I think there would be some of that no matter what you do but I think I think the people that have the ability to do things off the state contract would be able to okay take advantage of that any other board comments okay thank you um Dave can you just just for our minutes taker can you say who you are in your address so they can put it in the minutes my name is Robert [Laughter] R don't look like I'm D Rogers I live at 82 Highland Street with st C High Street and uh we live 50 is and please don't take this the wrong way because I don't want to set it up the wrong way but in the 50 years that I've been here I've raised a ton of money okay for all kinds of things but nothing that that comes close to what we're talking about here okay so that's Point number one uh Point number two um I I think um I I think this has been a great discussion that you've had but I I look at this thing from a different vantage point and that is this that at the end of the day what is the total n going to be for this project now you know who knows right I I agree 100% with those that said we're going to do it let's do it right okay because you know you could bastardize and say you cut this and cut that you know that's that's not really all rise [Laughter] you because that's not the way to do I so that gives you a better feel for the project okay and and is it is it St okay uh I'm going to tell you if you look at the town in in in overall positions uh we have got to spend a lot of money uh coming down the road to solve some very serious problems and I hate to be Cavalier about this thing but um you know I I can't really understand how this would fly when they start talking about other schools and repairing this and repairing that there's you know a myriad number of things so that's the first thing I'm of the school that it's going to be very very difficult to get traction for this 15 odd million dollars okay for a whole host of different reasons okay um now from my stand um and I I'm embarrassed to tell you that I don't have the numbers committed to memory uh but um how much do you have right now hard money $1 million and change we have a million dollar in arpa okay $1 million from M and how much uh did the uh town meeting uh rais in appropriate for the design things we had believe 82,000 and then we had another one for 50,000 and one for 25,000 and I don't off the top of my head know what we have left from those three amounts okay might the remaining design funds that we have is 142,000 from those three different town meeting votes okay um but in the accurate my my math is Right 182 and 75 is 257 right so that's what was raised and appropriated for the design fact so you know I am hard pressed to to uh at this particular juncture to say uh you know this this is a viable deal because I don't think here all the financial uh consequences that we're going to be looking at uh that that there is appetite to spend $15 million which is where would be if these numbers are correct okay um and if that's the case uh how much more would it cost to to bring the the uh PL uh up to phase one anybody know we don't know until we get the updated figures from the two firms okay what's your best flat ass guess I wouldn't even want to guess I I'll do that for you I mean I don't this is fine how much how much did we spend so far on the on the planes we are committed for phase one we were committed not to exceed 250,000 for the op M firm and 143,000 for the design firm okay those are not to exceed numbers and those have not all been expended yet okay so how much is left well we've got a few invoices that we haven't accounted for yet there but um roughly we have between the arpa funds and the design funds we have roughly $1.2 million and the Ala funds are mil bu yes yes well this where the rubber beats the road I mean I I personally uh you know I I would I would be embarrassed right if we if we expended all this money right to to get the numbers that we uh really need to go forward if the premise if I'm right if the premise is there's no way in hell we're going to get the the town people to spend 15 million bucks it's an exercise and futility and that would be CR but you put some money down the dire J what if we approach the what if one of the things that we decide to do is that we intentionally decide that this full design will be phased you know very methodically so that this section would get built first and that say that first amount is 5 million all right and then when the town is amable and additional funds can be made available then phase two would get built and then phase three would get built so that there's no one immediate burden that's a very logical way to look at something okay but in this particular case what happens if you have a change of demographics substantial change in demographics in the town of lumber and and you get the first one done and there's not an appetite to do two and three then it doesn't get done yeah but so I guess I think what Anita is trying to say is that if we phased it in a way that each section was for a lack of better word self-contained that if it didn't go any further if phase two never happens we have a beautiful phase one that didn't impact any other areas of Park and then if phase two got done and phase they nobody wanted to do phase three then we would be doing phase two in a way that wouldn't impact you know any of the other areas so there wouldn't be a um there wouldn't be a um an issue if phase two didn't wasn't voted in favor of it would be you would put in a playground maybe you put in a playground in a concession stand and that's phase one and that's where it stops then that's what you get and then if down the road it would require some shuffling of things because right now the way the park was designed was so that um the playground and concession stand is would basically be in the um left Outfield of the softball so that would you know Force the change of that like that we would have needed to you know move into that almost consecutively to phase two um I I understand the concept and it's a reasonable concept but given the set of circumstances that we have specifically the the the 15 million or some other number and if you divide it up and do a third or third or third if if you don't get the second and third third you it's you know it's it's really problems okay and it's not really what what everybody thinks they're going to get so it's that's where the meets the road I I always look at the the end result of this thing and and boy this is this is going to be a hard hard hard self given all the other things that we haven't got any control of and the the the one thing that I I really feel that that I I I want to work very hard is Joe citizen uh to make sure that there there's nobody throwing rocks at you because you guys and everybody else that's been involved in this work their ass off on this and it they they did a wonderful job but there a million bucks sitting that can be used by somebody else in this town and I don't know who that is and I'm not advocating for that but you understand the the the the repercussions of that oh we are very aware on the AR for funds very aware yeah so there in lies the r okay um and uh so that's that's what I know quick story uh 20 years ago plus wait a minut DA we want to make sure there's no other comments oh I'm sorry yeah sure that's good I didn't realize that my wife had a sister what a nice compliment okay um Chris you're um you were at the capital meeting before and you're just kind of hearing now um what we're discussing we had previously taken a boat that we have decided that we will um pass over the article for right um at the town meeting and now we're trying to decide what does the next phase look like what what does pause mean and what would we do during a pause if we decide it's a pause and not a a full stop so do you have any comments or concerns no I mean it's I understand what you're up against and what we're dealing with and I I think it makes sense at the moment and it's I think all you know my connection to the field I would love to see it get done but you know as Mr ref over here says it it may not be feasible as this so okay um and one other quick thought um we will need to immediately let um the baseball softball Little League people know that we will not be moving ahead with construction next spring and that the fields will be available I don't know if we want to take a vote on that tonight or um seems to me that if we're going to do that we should do it as quickly as possible to let them know because I know that um you know they've been having trouble trying to find alternate fields to use and at quite a bit of cost also so as soon we can let them know that require vote I would like to have a vote I'll make a motion to let them know that feels to be of use this spring I'll second that right all those in favor the skate park as well you let thatly skate park can still move ahead with what they need to do so um that would not impact any of the fields that I'm aware of Chris no their layout shouldn't impact the use of the little Ling field no the t-all still not available there right but that's already moved so that's not I back on that vote I'm a no on that [Music] okay and I would like to see us add um user fees to either our November or December meeting um because after going with a budget in August and realizing how much we pay to maintain our fields and just keep the grass cut um for the what appears to be the almost exclusive use by one youth sporting organization I think we need to um really take a deep dive into what we're charging what's coming in and what you know we pay for all of the for all of this okay we add that to November agenda okay um because we've been opening up to public comment do we still have she's not on anymore scared her away Chris do you have any public comment not you the other [Music] Chris um [Music] probably agenda for tomorrow correct you're still to do that yeah will yeah to explain the thought process and the decision yeah okay so back to our discussion about what does the pause look like are we do we feel we have the information that we need to make a decision on that do we need to get the feedback regarding um what it would cost us to complete the design in terms of fees to both scansa and to rdla before we make a decision that have to go out as another no have the option to extend the contract if funds are available so okay so we wouldn't have to go back that's my understanding I will double check with um the interim Town manager but that was my understanding of the way they were set up okay so my two sets on that and sort of piggybacking off of Mr Rogers some Mr Rogers comments I'm fully aware that there's other projects in town that are going to need to be done however there is a large population of people in this town that do not have School AG children that are home during the day that are looking for facilities to use to get recreational activity um whether or not they'll support U you know our new estimated cost of this I don't know but I think to work forward to give them that opportunity to say yes or no to it I think is important um because at this point you know my husband's a great example he went out of town yesterday to go walking why do why did he have to go out of town to go walking he should have been able to go to a track in our own town it just doesn't make any sense to me that we wouldn't you know at least keep moving forward to give the residents the option of saying yes or saying no to it um you know I don't know what the I don't know what the final number would be for you know completing that design process my guess how however is that it will probably come in under what we've already expanded on other Town Projects that never came to fruition because we keep doing study after study stud so you know I don't I wouldn't have an issue if if that's the case however I don't want to wait and you know I don't know if we could wait until you know late November to decide on the arer funding unless there was some you know unless Town manager said yeah I don't need to know until this date because if if you return this money to us we're just going to automatically throw it on trucks and I know I can guarantee that we can get something signed I do not want to turn back a penny of arpa funds and I don't want any arpa funds to be blood on our hands that get turned back so that's my my only concern about moving forward with that design piece is not knowing what it's going to cost because there's aror money involved what I think is that if if we're looking to seriously consider moving ahead to finish the design we should try to get that number from them in the next week or so I think that would also mean that we're going to do a special meeting just for the purpose of voting that's what I was going to say like let's just do a a meeting sooner like right let's get the information so we can make an informed decision but let's recognize that we're going to have to do that soon because there's a deadline on the airb right we if you know if we're going to turn money back we owe it to those people who potentially use it to make it available as quickly as possible I agree with Karen I I don't I also agree with Mr Rogers you don't know what there's an appetite for I've lived around here I worked my butt off to get that new school building um to where people were probably sick of seeing me and I didn't know if there was going to be an appetite for it I almost died when it passed as handily as it did I don't know what there's an appetite for but I will say there are a lot of people in town who who don't have school age children you know and who want Recreation space I mean everybody knows where I live the number the amount of foot traffic I can't even back out of my driveway without like I'm going to hit 10 people you know like almost getting hit while you're walking well yes exactly like I'm running down Northfield Road today like you know there's people I almost got you earlier sorry my eye like trying to um you know there's there's a lot of people that just go park at the school and walk around Turkey Hill Road walk around homman Street the cemetery everywhere I mean you know the pickle ball is is like it's taking on a whole life of its own over there at the school you know I'm getting heckled why am I not over there playing why everybody's over there everybody there's people who want to use that so I don't know sometimes I think there's not an appetite to spend a penny on anything in town and sometimes people support big projects but if you don't get the numbers and if you don't put it out there then you don't know what will get supported so I think we've come this far we need to put a project in front of the town I think the phasing is a good idea we talk about that as we go if I could just give one other point I just think if we could figure out if the 15 million is correct right what does that transcend into uh and relate to a tax increase for the for the town given the numbers that we have now well we'd have to we'd have to go back to the town account and and have the conversations with what that looks like because I don't know what it what it looks like but that all that all that said Dave you know phasing it you know going back and phasing it in a way that is different than how we phased it now or what we were calling phases now would also give people the opportunity to say yay or nay to something so you know Faith one and two might be the more what the Parks Commission feels is the more important things and Faith three may be you know something that somebody might deem a little more frivolous and we don't need um you know it would give them the opportunity to stay know to sections of it that they that they don't want um you know but that would be a question for the um Town accountant to come back to us in the same way that they did it for um they did it for the schools they've done it for a couple of projects where they've come back and said this is what it's going to cost um the taxpayers right I mean it's very easy you know you make an assumption in terms of what the you know interest rate is going to be and you the you know number of years that the borrowing is going to be and you can figure it out in terms of you can do it as a average tax bill or you can do it as a cost per thousand right so yeah if we had somebody on the finance committee close to hand we could find out [Laughter] quick I did ask for um what available non-exempt borrowing we have Cody yeah tomorrow okay um Chris can you just put it on record for our minutes taker who you are where you live and what your positions are no meeting's very sassy tonight chair page stre Massachusetts and your Social Security number your American Express number so um one of the comments that was made to me by the uh chair of the uh selectman was that if we move this thing to the springtime meeting the select would be looking to have it be dead excl usion bwing so well I don't know that we've had that discussion between sard and finance but I think what they're looking for is kind of I'll call a mega project fix this here down TC pasos which we spent a ton of money in operational costs every year on here down Brooks house which we spent a ton of money on operational costs on so there needs to be that holistic of everything I think and um he he also spoke to me on that same kind of thought process he will also be presenting tomorrow on the on their plan so I think it's a good opportunity at finance committee to have both of you there to he's presenting it or Michael Ray is presenting on oh sorry Michael R I thought that's who you said you said I was talking about the shair yeah yeah Michael Ray I have a conversation okay all right um so I think what I've been hearing everyone say is that we need to get some feedback from the designer and from the OPM in terms of what the rest of that work cost would be in their fees um and let's try to plan a meet a a special meeting for what the first week of [Music] November October 30th is next Wednesday and then November 6 at that point we just have our CL meeting we have let me throw this at you do we want to do the 13th the night of November 13th that would still give time I mean that's one I guess that's three weeks two weeks would be the six I think I'd rather aim to the six okay you just me so everyone could make that okay let's do that in the meantime I'll be pulling together information um from rdla scansa interim Town manager and [Music] um I'll send that around for information purposes only to all of you so you'll have it to start thinking about in preparation for meeting on the 6th okay um I just requested the link for that meeting okay great thank you okay um so then the other thing we need to do is um notify Sports users of the fields availability um it was not a unanimous vote but it did pass and we need to um notify schools superintendent and uh Sports director um need to notify Park Grant and land and water conservation fund Grant people so I'll go give them a call and let them know that at this point looks like we will not be moving ahead what's the is there a I I know if anyone's ever dealt with it or what but not saving face isn't the right word but going back in again when the time is right and so forth and well I'll have discussion you know with them you know in terms of reapplying yeah we don't want this I don't I don't want this to be a blemish or I can say one thing if we attempted to move ahead with this and it didn't work then forget we're doing the only responsible thing I we can't be the only municipality ever that had numbers come back or some needs change something happen I think probably just jinxed oursel and we'll probably get the Ada Grant next week just I know right but you know I would certainly hope that we were doing the responsible thing and it would be reflected and that's the way I will CCH it when I talk to her she is not in the office again until next week so I'll will call her next Monday so okay um all right moving on with the agenda [Music] you need for the inv so we do have two invoices let's do that quickly that is I'm learning a lot you good walking out alone or you need somebody to escort you say hi [Laughter] will EXC thanks and I don't want to leave without saying the phone I I really really really feel good about the fact that we have this group together working on these kinds of things because boy I tell you I am impressed I really am thank you Mr thank you for what you do I'm sure you'll call me in the morning so I'll talk to you then thank you again for all thanks Dave okay two invoices we have a invoice from scansa for OPM Services I got that one yeah that one came email you didn't get copied on it was a couple weeks ago I'll remind them they need to because we had two last time I did those too yeah we we have two that we've already it's those were a total of 2,65 this is an additional one for 1079 okay okay so um can I get people to move and approve H scansa for 10790 this is invoice number ending in 55453 so moved second okay all in favor I okay and I'm just gonna have Karen and I sign it okay the next invoice is the rdla and this is for work completed you want to sign that back this is for work completed from September 1st to September 30th and this is um invoice number 2455 d01 and it's in the amount of $ 5,725 this would involved um this is all totally um design development so this is labor costs so okay second all in favor okay what is this that's my signature now I feel like I should just draw some I need to get with the program I need to get with 2020 okay thank go home go to bed thank you okay um tax taking list um did everyone have a chance to thank you there's no more candy on the agenda by thanks for coming did everyone have a chance to look at those properties do you want a brief explanation of the properties that are involved in these yeah I didn't know what I was looking at I can tell you what we're looking it's it's property that's been foreclosed on and they just want to make sure that there aren't any boards or committees that interest in the property before they make decisions which is interesting because one of them's already on the market but whatever all right so um 14 sunet AV is a piece of property that's located on Lake whum um it's only about a tenth of a acre so even though it's it's property front on whum there really would be nothing we could do because it's not a large enough piece of property um 85 Valley Road in the middle of a neighborhood again Hill um not sure we would yeah residential dead end um 1041 s Shirley Road is the corner lot if you were to go down um lemon Shirley Road to take a left at the Mobile station it's right on the corner Pioneer Road and it's a very small parcel isn't that for S they might have already listed it but there a when you come to the end of of Lancaster lanc there a big there a big sign that says Noe it's not that one one it's the it's lit cor pioner lemon s Shirley um the last two properties are actually quite interesting they're on moscap poag is that how you say that pond which is the pond that you see on the right hand side as you're traveling down Lancaster um but they're pretty landlocked one of them is definitely landlocked across from St yes yeah but this is on the back side of that P right um it's almost they abut the lemoner line um one of them you look at it looks like you get to it um it's up near rumbrook road which is by Cherry Hill it's on that side but they both appear to be landlock swampy type properties it's all red Maples yep so I'm I mean I went through all of them I've done this before with open space and and looking at properties to see if there's anything that any other group could use there's nothing standing out of any of these properties that I think would be so nothing's been identified as yeah I don't believe that there's anything we could do with any of them if it I mean if we were talking about a good siiz Lakefront piece of property then we could have a different discussion but that seset lane is not a big enough property to do anything with okay all right I I don't feel the need to take a vote unless I agree with that assment as when I looked at the M the two Ms look pretty wet yeah okay so I'll just send an email back to them and say no interest no concerns okay um chair updates um I will be meeting with the finance committee tomorrow night I'll explain to them the you know the discussion votes we've taken tonight regarding um the Article 15 debt authorization for Marshall Park we also though have the other article that will still be on the um time meeting war and that was the one about the revolving fund article 10 so there's not a lot I can say about it because basically I mean they know they know it better than I do you know it's we have to do it we had been years ago we was identified that it needed to be changed and it never was do you know the low down on this one Tim no so we have a 53d that's what we have right yes we have a 53d and we um by state law that is a revolving account that is supposed to hold no more than $10,000 at the end of a fiscal year and it can only be expended in certain ways um there's another one called a 53 e and a half and the half actually means something that would allow us to carry more than a $10,000 balance and pay for certain things including um parttime salaries or seasonal salaries things like that we carry more than a $10,000 balance and always and have since I've been on this commission um we originally broached the subject back in like 2020 2021 um and the town Administration didn't think we needed to change it yeah we do do so we're in a situation now where um it's got to go in front of town meeting and there's going to be a series of events M over and figure out what happens with the difference with the balance that we've been carrying um repercussions I mean what if you don't move it like what happens they yeah we don't need you so I mean in without mixing words on it because I'm tired and it's getting late but um the town is by by state law as opposed to move anything over $10,000 into their general fund which that can be appropriated to other things so and with our new Finance director he he is aware of the limitations and would I'm sure take appropriate action yeah and you know while we're ask asking that the $60,000 be transferred over into this new 53 and a half there's no guarantee that the um the state the AG's office would actually they have to approve these kind of Articles so you know they may say yeah we're going to allow you to develop the 53 and a half but you can't take the $660,000 and put it into it you can only take $10,000 so there's there's that rest but we really don't have a choice so we and we won't even know um until usually takes weeks before we get the response from the Attorney General's office in terms of what their ruling is on what how accurate how appropriate that vote it might even be longer than that because there was just something that came out in I think like September an attorney general if anybody saw it in the Ledger um regarding an article that was at the May town meeting um so it could take a few months to figure it out so it's one of those it needs to get done I mean there's no there's no question so so but that's so those are just the things that I'm going to be doing over the next day or so as well as the other things that I talked about um helping us to get ready for our November 6 meeting um commission member updates on anything no okay we don't have any minutes tonight to approve um we've already decided our November meeting date will be the 6th at 700 p.m. here at Ritter basement um is there anything else any other announcements or comments no so Master planning hasn't met in quite a long time um there's emails going around now like what the holdup is and what they're doing so maybe someday I'll have an update on that um and I the only other request for me were can you put the um user fees on for November November and then can we target December for a something beach related i' I'm still having 100% pulled everything together [Laughter] maybe instead of basement no we but hopefully at that point I can I can sort of give a presentation on you know what our users were what our hours were and sort of that's relative to the you know the comments made to Angela about trying to really understand what we do need for Staffing right okay okay any other comments anniversary committee has realized they jumped the gun and we're really early in phase for 2028 but we're still picking excellent um thank you for all the work both of you put in in all the sleepless nights and whatever I not an easy uh not an easy deal it's tough bu to swallow I think for everybody but yeah it is and I I do specific Al want to thank um Karen and anma Lockwood for all the I mean you two are the driving force on getting all these things pulled together so yes all everyone was involved but talking about hours and hours and hours the two of you and I don't want it to be lost that I know there's other grants that you were applying for that's out there or whatever but if if this was going to be an8 or10 million project and you had a million and half dollar in Grants already secured plus other ones out there plus the arpa funds I mean that's a significant chunk of this project 30% of the project they're being an appetite for something sometimes there's a real appetite to match State funding yeah you know and and this is a whole different discussion if that doesn't happen so I just want all of those things on record that this was looking like something different and and now it is looking like something else and I do think and it's through no fault of anybody here and I do think that if the initial estimate had come back at $14 million we would have had different conversations back because I think Chris you were the only one on the board with me at that point when I wouldn't be on the board Anna asked me to come on board relative to this and I would have said that's a Fool's errand and no Anna thank you I stepped down from all the boards I ran out I served my terms and I left and I'm G to stay gone it was a different discussion it was and it would you know I can't say the project would have been dead at that point I think we would have gone back to it and we would have said okay well we still want to do something but we're going to carve out this or this or this and make it so that we it's something that we still wanted while still being able to have it at a price point that made sense at that time and I'm not saying the $4 million doesn't make sense because some people think what do you mean you're not moving forward with this it's only 14 million well okay that's you're welcome to that opinion but at the big picture is we don't have we don't know exactly what the funding is for that 14 million I could have told you what it was if we were coming in under 10 but that's not where we from the getg go yeah that's not where we were sitting so I we did a good job of community input throughout we the community has been engaged Community provided input it's shown you know that it's something that the town supports and wants yeah and that was all done without a number but you know I think it's I think you know it is an important you know an important piece for this town I we it's a it's a tangible piece that money can be put into it you're going to have it there people are living in the moment with their children even you know families that have kids in school um you know we talk all the time about how they can't get access to you know Fields because the high school has such a robust program well you know the need of fields is not lost on school AG parents either so you know what it will look like I'm interested to see how it gets there I'm more interested to see um you know I I need a very long break it's a you know it's it's a lot to sit back and say well we're we're walking away from potentially walking away from $1.5 million it's that's the not take that lightly at all we did exactly what we told we stood up in front of town meeting in November of what was it 22 20 yeah 22 and you know we asked for 1882 or whatever thousand do to keep moving on this project so that we could apply for Grants and we I believe we applied for every Grant with the exception of one that we said said we were going to and the only reason we didn't apply to that one which was the dog park Grant is because they no longer offer it so we did everything that we said we were going to do we got some we didn't get some and you know we're coming out on the end of a situation that we didn't cause we didn't do it was you know you bet these professionals that are you know if it if it is exactly how I think it is which I'm confident at this point that it was a estimating error um you know we placed the trust in the people that you're supposed to be doing this for living and it clearly did not work in our favor unfortunately and here we are anyway oh thank you I will motion to adjourn us at 8:56 second hi hi okay all right thanks everybody