Hello everybody. Um this is Tanya Wlette Dall and this is the personnel committee meeting. Uh the meeting today's date is Monday August 3rd 2026. We are in the lower Ritter conference room at 960 Massav in Lunberg. The time is 7:01. Um,
and we're going to begin our meeting in accordance with the requirements of the Massachusetts open meeting law. Please be advised that this meeting is being recorded. The meeting will also be broadcast on the Lunberg public access channel and uploaded to the Lunberg Public Access YouTube channel. This
meeting will be conducted via Zoom. Members of the public wishing to participate remotely may join using the following Zoom link. https um colon- us02b.zoom
usj/83067078427. Participants may also join by telephone by dialing 888-475-4499 and entering meeting ID 83067078427. If prompted for a participant ID, simply press the pound key. Telephone
participants may press star 9 to request recognition by the chair. Participants joining by computer or the Zoom app may also use the raise hand feature. Um I don't see anybody else in the meeting right now. Uh so I think we're all set.
Um we're going to move on to our agenda list. Uh the agenda list of topics reasonably anticipated by the chair to be discussed at this meeting. Votes may be taken on any of the items listed. Not all agenda items may be discussed and to the extent permitted by Massachusetts open meeting laws. Other matters may
others matters not listed may also be brought before the committee. So I'm going to call this meeting to order. Everybody all set? >> I am. >> We should be short and sweet. Um I don't see anybody in the public here, but if there are any public comments,
please identify, raise your hand, and we will call on you. Um, do we have any comment from the board, the committee? >> Okay, great. So, I think what we're going to be doing today is kind of discussing um committee priorities. Uh,
we're going to review correspondence from attorney Mark Terry on the language of the personnel committee bylaws. We're also going to discuss current personnel related priorities and um future meeting venues. And that's pretty short meeting. Um, so we can start off by talking about
the bylaws. Uh, I do have a meeting next week with attorney Mark Terry to a one-on-one meeting to kind of talk and chat with him about his and I'm going to say interpretation of the bylaws. Um, obviously when you're working with a
town and you're working with a town manager, there could be some influence there when they're having discussions about how town manager sees these bylaws and how they're interpreting them. And that may influence the inter interpretation. It also may not. Um, so I really want to meet with him and chat
about, you know, he did send us his interpretation of like why he sees things that way. Um, what are what is the legalities behind those thoughts? Um, additionally, I want to be very candid with all this committee and also the public that I've given these bylaws
to um, a couple of my colleagues at Harvard and public policy who write public policy for towns and particularly in personnel committee um, guidelines as well as some Harvard law attorneys um, that also work in public policy and writing these laws just to see what they
think. And then I also gave it to a couple cities that have town managers that work with personnel committees as well. Um, I just want to get everybody everybody's opinion on what they think without them anybody else knowing and kind of do a comparative analysis on interpretation of bylaws, you know, and
then compare it with Mark's um, interpretation just to make sure that we're receiving the best u practices um, not only for the town of Lunberg, but how other towns see things um, and so on and so forth. So, I hope that you guys
are okay with me sharing that. I did ask if it was okay for me to share these things out as they are public knowledge um and of you know public viewing that it is totally fine and you know this is just me using my resources. So feel free
also to to share it with folks that you know um that you know live in small towns or even people that work in departments, department heads and how they feel about being represented um by personnel committees. Um we all
know that if if power goes to one person and that person is great, things go great. But if that person changes and they have different, you know, motives for the town, then those things can go downhill very quickly. >> Very cool. >> So, we want to make sure that our committee is working very closely and
well with town manager um the select board to make sure that everybody's represented um in a way that is fair um and just and equitable. So, any questions on that? Does everybody? Nope. Sounds great. Okay. Um, I'm gonna pull
up bylaws on my laptop. Um, >> he wrote a pretty lengthy letter. >> It's a lengthy letter and he did interp >> and it's a it's a lengthy bylaw, too. >> It is. It is. And, you know, when I first read it, I was like,
>> what role do we have after this interpretation? Like, are we needed? Do what, you know, how do we fit in here? How do we um what would be our purpose actually is what my question would be like. what would be our purpose um
if this is the way the bylaws are interpreted and and we kind of um update or review them and make changes and spread out some of the responsibilities because obviously I agree with some roles and responsibilities should not fall with
layman or committees such as ourselves but there's needs to be like an in between so let me pull that up so I can look through we can kind of comb through one >> yeah I think a couple readings of this. I came out with different um readings on it. You know, the first time I think I
had landed similar to that >> and then in reading it again I'm like, "No, there's still quite a bit there." So, I think we get to work through this. >> Yeah. Let's let's take it one by one. >> Um I know I just sent it to you, so I know it's I know it's here.
A little little lag would be soft enough on the rain. blind. Move this up a little bit. Um, >> great. Uh, Paul, do you want to like take one
or go through one or talk about one and we can kind of take turns or do you want Okay. How do you want to do this? like do you do we need to read it into record or can we just discuss when we read it? >> I mean >> I don't think we need to >> I don't think we need to read it into record. Um it we can put it on our
website available >> if if necessary but I think we should really like really look in and discuss it especially when he gives some notes on the bottom as to >> Yeah. So 70-2 >> yep >> is the first one and it talks about the fact that we are authorized to administer the SAP unless those
responsibilities are assigned by statute town or bylaw to other people. Um and so practically it means that you know the town manager has many different roles other you know um town employees such as like payroll are
going to handle that stuff and that leaves us to whatever is listed in the next sections. Um, [clears throat] I did not fully understand the section. The personnel committee may issue, amend, or revoke administrative orders for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of the SAP and for
administering or enforcing such orders. >> And then he goes on to say those are rare, which I don't remember this ever happening. >> Right. >> So, can you flush out what you think he's saying there >> or what the bylaw is saying? it like
when I look at this and I talk to other folks in other towns um there's always like a small area of gray where if there's something that we find is unjust that we have a way a a way of
like negotiating that or talking about that or trying to change that um I feel so administrative orders would be orders from the town manager the select board Yes. So, yes, but and also we're not allowed to like add
additional um duties to onto our priorities or our roles um with just in general like we can't just add things in and say we're we're in charge of this. Um but again um I think
it's very rare that it comes to a point where the personnel committee would step in on any of the things mentioned above. Um there are already bylaws in place that hiring discipline
evaluating that sit with HR. Um and I think that if we have a question about those things, our HR director would be the one that we would chat with. Um, and she's very very open to answering any of our questions. So, uh, but our standard answer to anybody that comes to us with
any of these types of questions, we should definitely be referring them to HR and it's not in our purview to either give advice or even opinion on any of these things. So, we just want to be careful as to not, you know, >> is HR appointed or hired?
>> I mean, voted. >> Hired. >> Yeah. um you know and and HR laws and rules are very >> clear and they're clear. So uh you know I don't think we even have to get
involved in any of that at all. >> You bet. >> Um >> and that kind of runs into the next paragraph which talks about and it was one of our questions is >> yep >> under section E saying that we would have access to all facts, figures, records, etc. Mhm.
>> Um and just the clarity we were hoping for which is you know what does that really mean? So to the general public or the employees watching he was very clear we would have extremely limited access to confidential personnel record information which you
know we are not looking for. Um so that was good. Um it really he defined what we have access to which is what's under the scope of our authority. um talking about job descriptions, market-based com compensation analysis,
request for step adjustments if any, >> and any information related to pay adjustments. So, >> yeah. Um so, this is where I want to get a little bit of clarification to from from him and then outside folks as well.
um you know, when they put together a job description, um are we supposed to watch look at that job description before it's posted? Do we need to sign off on that? Um I know that a couple of the um job descriptions that were put into practice before we
formed this committee uh or shared with us, you know, after after the fact. And that's fine. It was it they were definitely implemented before we um stood up this committee. Um, but I just kind of want to get clarification on
when I looked at those documents, there were places for town manager to sign and there were places for personnel committee to sign. So I want a clarification on when that signing takes place. What type of discussions do we
have together as a committee >> to look at it and be like, you know, well, we we're replacing this position at this level and now we've up the grade or the job description is different and why is that? Or any questions that we may have on that. Um,
I think that, you know, that's kind of within our jurisdiction to make sure that folks that are getting hired are being hired at the appropriate grade level with an appropriate job description based on other communities, you know. Um, we kind of want to make sure we're
kind of stacked up. >> Yeah. equally against, you know, other towns such as our like like ourselves. So, we're not losing valuable employees um to towns that have consistently different grades or different job descriptions, different titles. And I
know that town to town to town titles can be very different but mean the same. Um, and for example, like towns may not have an assistant town manager, but they may have other um, rules in the city or the towns that do those duties. It's
just not called that. So, we can't say, "Well, nobody has an assistant town manager around here." Yes, they do. They just don't call it that. They call it something else. So, we want to just make sure we're doing our due diligence when we look at job descriptions, grades, roles, responsibilities that they kind of line up and align with other towns.
Um, so I just want clarification on what the bylaw states when we get the job description. Do we need to sign off on it? Can we ask questions? Can we actually make changes? Do we can we only
suggest changes um and you know get a couple of those questions answered um before we start hiring you know and going forward start hiring departments heads or those not uh
represented by the union. So um yeah does anybody have questions about that or what are some of your thoughts on that? I think we just need more explanation and more clarification. >> Y
>> yeah, I think it's pretty clear on new positions. >> Um it's not as clear on current ones, >> right? >> Except for when someone leaves and then it needs to be looked at, but it doesn't clearly state when personnel steps in other than maintaining the job
descriptions. >> Yeah. And you know, words like tenatively usually aren't in bylaw [laughter] agreements. >> Tenatively. Yeah. Well, I think it's tentative, too. It needs to be um voted on at the town meeting. So it's only >> okay >> applicable until town meeting.
>> Yeah. Um yeah. So again, if we have something on town meeting, an amendment or something coming up for a new position, you know, we should probably be looking at that before it goes there. Um
and additionally we as a personnel committee can stand up at a town meeting and disagree or agree or support or you know >> Yeah. >> say you know say what we want to say. Um and you know that that's what democracy
is all about and that's why Lunberg is such a special town because at town meeting everybody's represented there um and no one can really hide. If you're supporting you're there and you can see it. Um, but yeah, so I think we do need some clarity on that and I am waiting for a couple of folks to get back to me
on that interpretation. Um, but I really want to get down to the nitty-gritty with Mark and >> and hear it out in in layman's terms on, you know, I'm going to ask a couple of
hard questions and give him some scenarios uh that I've seen. >> You said on Monday >> Tuesday. >> Yeah. behav and I just realized some of these things I dealt with in a little more detail below y so I don't want to fully get into undermin um the other thing it says
is that we do not the SAP does not apply to positions covered by collective bargaining >> [clears throat] >> um only applies to non-union non-contract positions although contract positions when quiet on a thing will fall to the SAP
>> so are they talking about contract positions as in seasonal contract cont positions. >> No. Or like um employment contracts. So like town manager has an employment contract, fire chief and police chief. I think there's a number of people who
have employment contracts with the town which can then have different things outside of the SAP. >> Okay. >> Um regarding various things but um when their contract does not mention a certain thing like let's say vacation.
>> Okay. If it does not mention vacation, then it defaults to what's in the SAP. >> Okay? >> Unless it mentions something that's different. >> Okay? >> Um, so that's something we want to think about. Hopefully, they are covering their basis and mentioning that in their
contract that I don't see. >> And maybe I'm skipping ahead to what happens next, but one of the things I thought about when I'm reading through this is, you know, what do we need to maybe reach out to HR manager? Mhm. >> to have in our drive. What are the
things are? Do we need to see the employment contracts? Do we need to see all the job descriptions? Do we need to see um current steps and grades, right, >> for all positions that are, you know, I I think at some point >> those are things we're going to need to
have. So that that's where my mind started going as I was reading through this. So, so definitely what I think we should be thinking about um for our next meeting is putting together a list of things that we want to see on our drive.
Um I will ask the town attorney, are there things that we're not allowed to see? Um and I will also ask um outside folks like what that looks like. Um just to make sure that well I mean we don't want to put things in there that we
aren't allowed to see, but we all want to have And I agree with you, Pauline, access to things that we need to see. Y >> yeah. Um >> the only way is to ask for it and then be told that's right. >> Yes or no? No. Why? >> And I'd also really like to, and this is
probably just for myself, too. Um maybe connect with HR and go over the positions in this town that currently do not fall under the union, the unions, and all of that. like who are the ones that we are looking up for like what are
the positions um who are in those positions in case somebody emails us >> and where are they at >> and yes um and make us >> look at and I'm not seeing it here but >> the list of all the positions under the SAP they're not all built or they're not all even you know some are just
>> I can keep the SharePoint updated um with individual folders for each position and put um the job description in there. I think that's easiest for me to look at when I go under jobs. If I find the position and then I can put under there like the job description and
all the thing that things that go under there, whether it's the person's, you know, not personnel file, but who's in the position um you know, kind of a document of, you know, who's in the position, what grade level are they at, what salary I don't even know if we can look at salaries.
Yes, we can. >> So, yes. So, you know, those things would be under each folder. Um, that way we can have it at our fingertips. If a job position opens up, we can say, "Okay, well, the director of the DPW was at this grade level. He was here for this long. This is where his this is
where his job description. So, you know, if we want to hire somebody at that same level, this is what it's going to cost the town." Um, you know, plus fringe and we can figure out, you know, kind of where we're at. So, we're not going to hire somebody with a lot less experience and, you know, cheap and not get Yeah.
and not get the same level of service that we get from our current, you know, DPW uh director who's fabulous. So, um Yeah. And then the last thing to note under this section is just that um
section 70-2C requires that all actions of the personnel committee receive the affirmative vote of three members. So because we are only a board of three, >> we need unanimous votes. >> Yep. >> So hopefully at some point we can seat the full board on the same page.
>> Um and again reach out for to any folks that you know. Um >> I I think there was a >> a bad taste after the last committee since no one wanted to do it for years. >> I don't know if it was a bad taste. I think it was a
>> people had questions. Okay. and without an understanding of what might have gone wrong. There was a weariness, I think. >> And I think when I came on, one town manager was leaving, then we had an intern town manager, then we're hiring a new town manager. So, now that we have a
really established, you know, town manager that's working hard for this town, I think we're going to have an easier time of like collaborating. Um, I'm hoping that, you know, the board will fill up and be, you
know, solid. I know finance is solid. So, it looks like we're all going in the right direction. So, maybe this is a new leaf to turn over and we can get some things done. Um, but yeah, so we all we all have to agree. Um, but if we don't
agree, then we don't agree. We just vote against each other and move along. This is not like a personal >> thing. And but you have to have the minimum of three votes. >> Yep. Yes. and there's only three of us. >> So, however that turns out. >> Um, but we're all reasonable people and
I'm sure we can chat it out. Uh, so great. Where are we now? >> Job deser. >> All right. Um, so we need all the job descriptions. We need to put that on the share drive. Uh, and no, is it our responsibility to put job descriptions on our share drive or is it HR's
responsibility to put them on our share drive? >> We should ask that question. >> Yeah, because we don't want to create more work for ourselves as a volunteer committee if it does fall under the job information. >> Yeah. When I was speaking at HR and town manager are both on our SharePoint, so they have the >> Great to add.
>> Um, >> let's don't add work to us that we can't do. >> Yeah. Uh, so I'd also like to ask because we do have a fire chief exiting and it does say here that the job description upon the exit of an existing employee before the
town seeks to build. That's already been done. Um, but I'd like to see his job description and the new job description side by side >> just as like a comparative now >> as it's supposed to be given to us. >> Yeah. Um, but I think because it was before July 1, new fiscal year, I'm not
sure if it's gray and fuzzy, but we should be able to see the current. >> Is that job posted though? >> I believe so. Jen said that it was up. >> Okay. >> Or maybe ask Mark if we can see both. >> Yeah, he might have it. Um, he might have. >> I would think that Julie would have
that. >> Yeah. Uh, and plus Mark will charge us to give it to us and Julie will give it to us for free, maybe. >> [laughter] >> Well, then that answers that question. >> Um, >> our budget's a little limited.
>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, so tentatively add new job titles and descriptions to the plan. Tenatively again, uh, but again, that's town meeting uh, >> approval. >> Yeah. So, >> but you get it ready to submit to them to approve.
>> That's right. >> Here's what we want to do >> as a town. You say yes or no. >> Um, or vote yes or no. >> So wage and salary ranges. This one is super important to me. Um I think this is at a minimum we should
be reviewing the wage and salary schedules of all positions in the plan and be in a position to recommend to the select board any action desirable to maintain a fair and equity pay level. Um,
what I want to figure out is who does the the review? Um, it should be done by an outside entity. Does HR work with somebody who already does this for us? Do we get our own? Um, or do we as a
committee prefer one or the other? Uh, but I think it's very important uh again to be able to um look at all of our folks, see what they're getting paid, see what their grade levels are, and make sure that they are equitable.
>> I don't think we have that chart yet. >> We I don't know if it's been done in a while. >> Okay. >> Um I know they do it for union employees quite often or in a bargaining year. I know that, you know, our union does it definitely during a bargaining year to
make sure that all the schools are paying, you know, their their grade levels and that everybody falls within that grade level. Um, and that they're competitive. Um, so I'm not sure if it's on based on the
contract year or if it they do it every year, but we need to do it at least every three years. And if we haven't done it within the last three years, I think we should think about doing that. Yes. Very soon. Yes. >> Yeah, that would be good to get the historical data on that and then also to
find out when's the last time it's being done that it was actually implemented recommendations were made. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Cuz I feel like it's being a position by position without doing a grand over look at the whole thing. >> I'd love to be able to do that. And I
[clears throat] like what you said at the end there like they did it but what changes or what was implemented or was anything And it is it works. >> Yeah. >> Has it been effective? >> That's going to be interesting. Um so,
uh I'm going to draw up a document and I'll send it to you guys for a request um to have that done with a question. I'm also going to ask Mark how it's been done in the past since maybe he's been has done it before or maybe worked the
town to do it. I'm not quite sure like what his role is. Is he just personnel? I feel like there's been conversations about having an outside consultant do this um that I was a part of. Um [clears throat] I'm just wondering and I know we had
talked that point about, you know, do we need to allocate funds for having that done? >> Yeah. >> Would that be something we would need to ask for a special town meeting if we want that done for annual? >> Yeah. >> I don't know. I don't know what the
timing and the need would be or whether there's funds. >> I'm trying to think and think put my finance hat on and think like if a committee is asking for something off cycle um and because we had not been stood up is there a place >> I know they generally don't like funding
articles and special town meeting. >> Yeah. Um, but again, if we were to bring it to the board to get on to have this done, I feel like it would be a very easy convince um at town meeting for a
vote. >> Yeah. >> That we do it. Um, people want to make sure that we're doing things correctly in the town and the town is generally transparent. So, um, I'm going to ask I'll ask on that.
>> Yeah. ever the worst is they say >> that's right. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then when people ask they said no wasn't our fault. Um so yeah. >> No let's hope it comes back positive.
>> Uh reclassification of employees. So I'm not sure how often or what the process is for reclassification in the town. I know that generally in business you can um fill out forms if you are requesting a reclassification of your
>> exactly >> um role and then it goes through HR um through your manager and that HR and sometimes sometimes it doesn't even have to go through your manager it can just go directly to HR in some instances but
I don't know how this town ticks so um >> I believe it needs to go first through us if they're SAP Okay. >> And just having sat through some of these before. >> Um and then it has to be voted on by the town. >> Everything needs to go through town meeting. >> So we would be making you know an
article. >> Okay. So we would as the personnel committee would pro promote an article um submit an article request >> asking for reclassif employee. >> Yeah. No singular position. >> Position. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But not a singular employee. Then you do it by position.
>> Done by position. >> Okay. >> Yeah. uh >> the position was misgraded to start. >> Okay. So they don't have an avenue or >> it does not fall in the right place on the salary schedule any >> Okay. So they don't have an avenue to do that without us. We have to do the the
leg work for them. >> That's a great question. >> Yeah. >> 70-6. >> Well, we put that to Mark. >> Yeah. You might know. No employee shall be reclassified until the personnel committee shall have determined that such a reclassification will be consist consistent with the provisions of the
salary administration plan. >> So it could go manager to HR back to personnel. Yes or no from us and then down. >> Yeah. >> Okay, that makes sense. >> Yeah, it's usually the department head or the manager, >> you know, working with HR and then
bringing it forward. >> Okay. >> As a request. All right. >> I've seen them come to different personnel committee meetings. Okay. Making their >> Great. Great. I just want to kind of understand like the chain >> if it So if it if they come to us and they say, "Listen, I've been in this
class for like x amount of time or I feel like this job I've have more stuff added to my role because they had to like >> let somebody go or whatever." or whatever it is, we then >> or the role has changed and evolved and now it's taking on new responsibilities
and it does not fit where. >> So that would be our time to tell them to work with their manager and HR and then come back to us. >> Correct. >> Okay. So that's the steps. All right, sounds good. And if they don't get the results that they want,
>> we talk about that. Um >> needs to be voted on by the town. >> Yeah. I'm just wondering if we as a personnel committee can bring it up without approval of HR or their manager. Do you know what I'm saying? >> Well, it'll be a general question.
>> This is what [clears throat] we'd like to recommend >> or I'm recommending and >> I mean, >> but it needs to fit. >> Yeah. >> You know, cuz often times managers might say, "Oh, I don't we don't have the budget or you know, we don't have, you know, the answer is no or whatever." And that's not satisfactory to the employee.
So like is that where it just ends or does it come back to us and we can be like no maybe we recommend that because this job role has changed. So I just want to find >> help to adjust your budget. >> Yeah. >> And that might be something to have HR director at a meeting and we can kind of hash out some of that because I feel like a lot of that would live under HR director.
>> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Um >> and we're really just sitting and making sure it's actually appropriate and fits within the whole picture. Yeah. >> Of the SAP. Um, an employee is promoted and a department head recommends a step adjustment based
on qualifications and performance. The personnel committee must approve the step increase. So, I feel like everybody that's going to get a promotion is falling under the union. Like, aren't we only representing department heads? Are those not in the union?
Even department heads might get a step adjustment >> or and there are employees >> that don't fall under the union. So we talking like seasonal employees or what would be an example? >> Again, this is where it'd be good to get a sort of who actually is working and
part of the SAP and where are they at right now? Um so we have a better picture who's exempt, not exempt. Under my understanding when Jen mentioned to me like who would be rep we'd be representing it was department heads and seasonal employees >> that is generally I know like outreach
coordinator used to be under the SAP now is under the union um I think assistant business manager for the sewer >> okay >> so I don't have the list in front of me so I'm not it >> so there might be >> there's also like library pages um okay >> so who are not seasonal necessarily but
they might be parttime meal site manager at the senior center. >> Okay. >> Um All right. So, we need to get a list of all the people we represent. Yeah. >> So that we can implement the proper um bylaws when they >> Yeah.
>> If questions come through. Okay. >> Uh newly hired. What? When a newly employee is hired, the town manager must consult with the chair of the personnel committee before authorizing paying the employee at a [clears throat and snorts] higher step rate than the minimum rate range.
So, we're talking about a new employee coming in if they want to pay them higher than the the lowest portion of that grade >> or strike them somewhere between. >> Um, so I feel like there's been a new hire
recently. I wonder you didn't hear anything. So, and then we as a whole committee have to vote if it's over a four. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> But what what do they mean by minimum? Is that just grade one? >> So, so I when they look at when I look at the grades, there's a minimum and a
maximum. Most people fall kind of in the middle. >> Um unless they're exceptionally qualified and we want to keep them at this grade or they're entry level. And still I've never seen anybody go with like the bare minimum wage. >> Not right now, but they used to.
Everyone used to start it. >> So maybe >> step one. >> Um but at that at the the actual step one at the lowest level, >> it would be step one of the grade for their position. So if they were a grade seven, step one, that they're hired at.
>> Okay. Um so anybody over that step one in any grade level they have to come too. >> So but it's just a consultant >> and then same [clears throat] thing if they reach uh steps 10 and they're still employed and been here
for a while. Do they get a review of some nature? >> Well they do go up a step every year which >> but let's say you get to your maximum >> Yep. >> for that loan. >> Just get cost of living raises after that. >> Okay. Although once you hit year 10 in
the SAP there is um a longevity cut. >> Yeah. >> As an annual bonus. >> So you you would still be getting some additional functions. >> And sometimes it's beneficial to stay at the high level with the the bonus and go up another step >> um into the next grade level,
>> step one at the next grade level. But that's HR. That's all the things that happen there. Um so there needs to be a consultation so we need to make sure that that happens. Uh so uh how that how we assure
that happens we have to really keep on talking. >> Yeah. Is there any communication when they do hire someone that you are being told or >> right >> or when they post the notice that they're going to have this position open. We're notified at the same time.
>> Yeah. I mean, we should know before because we should be signing off on the job description, I think. >> Absolutely. True. True. >> Um, since all the all the paperwork I've seen has a line for personnel committee to sign off on. Um, but you know, so we should know about
it, but then when they offer it, >> we should be >> we should if there should be a consultation, we should be involved in the steps. And that doesn't mean we have to be making decisions along the way. It's just >> awareness, >> awareness of what's going on in the town, >> knowledge.
>> Um, and that way the transparency is evident. More than one person knows things and if there's ever a question, we can be those people that can question it. Um, you know, respectfully and, you know, with the town manager or HR or
select board, however, go however the avenue goes. Um although I have been unable to identify any specific open meeting law determination on the issue um odd uh be permissible for a meeting on
this topic to be held in executive session under purpose two. Okay. So we could would we be invited to executive session? Are we invited to executive session or is this just town manager?
>> I think he means that if someone is um asking to be or the hiring person, town manager, whoever is asking to hire someone above a grade, step four, >> that has to be formally voted on. And I think he's saying that could be done as an executive session meeting so that we
are not putting that out there on a recording and having this person's >> and but would we be in that meeting? We would be it would be executive session of the personnel committee. >> Okay. Okay. >> That's my understanding in the reading of this >> because oftentimes I've seen town manager select board have an executive
session on something that they're talking about and voting on and there are parties that are not there that kind of represent you know a piece of what's going on. Um, not that I'm saying that the best happens here, but it's a way. >> Yeah,
>> it's a way saying under that same vein, our meeting to discuss that could also be under executive session because it's >> sounds good. >> Privacy >> department budgets. Okay, this is interesting. Must include a pay adjustment section in the annual budget
request to provide the funds for anticipated pay adjustments. A lot of them do, some of them don't. Oh, really? I mean that it was said to them by payroll. >> It is but when they
when they present budget some departments are more granular with that projection and some are not. So, you know, generally we will ask additionally. Um,
but I think everybody's getting on the same page now, like kind of submitting a template budget on what it looks like so that we can look at it. I don't want to cross committees, but uh so that we can look at it in uh like a big overview as opposed to like seeing many multiple different ways people are presenting the
budgets and we're like, how do we do it? So, um I don't think that's going to be an issue. um must approve any expenditures made from this session. >> What are you reading? >> Um
>> the second sentence in there. >> Someone must approve any expenditures to be made from this section. Well, I know that's not been happening. So, So, I went down a little bit of a dive about a month ago. I maybe it was after
our last meeting um where I went back and started reading some of the old minutes. They're all online back to I think 2016. I went back um and they used to do that. They used to at the start of the new fiscal year say this, you know, approving this, proving this, this
person's going to here, and it was all like written out with the person and their salary >> in the minutes. Maybe that's what that's living under. I'm not sure cuz I really don't think currently we're making actually approving any expenditures. We're not
approving their budgets in any way. No. So that that word approve any expenditures maybe >> to review. >> I review is a good word. But if if the bylaws say approve
then Well, the only other thing I can think of is we are part of putting out the new wage schedule and any adjustments at that whether it's cost of living or I mean I don't think we're actually making some of those recommendations, >> right? >> But putting together this and underneath
that maybe that's >> what they're talking about because we're approving the salary schedule. >> Okay. Sure. >> Well, I'm going to get a little bit of clarification on that with him then too. Um because if I just take it out that one sentence, it looks like our
responsibility is to meet with department heads to make sure that we approve that budget line before it goes to presentation and approval or not approval um >> recommendation, >> okay, >> by the finance committee to the select
board and to the town. Um but that's a pretty I mean, >> we should look at it before it goes to finance committee and on its way up the >> That's what it looks like it says, but I'm going to ask for clarification because it does seem like a very deep
responsibility and role that we're approving. It's funny, his wording is longer than the actual bylaw. >> Okay, what does the bylaw say? >> Each department head shall include in the annual budget request a pay adjustment section to provide funds for anticipated pay adjustments during the
ensuing year. expenditures to be made there from only in accordance with the salary administration plan with approval of the personnel. >> So again, it sounds like we have to >> I think we're approving wage schedule. >> Yep. >> And then the
>> Well, okay then. Maybe um we have to think about that. >> Yes. Uh because departments are starting to put their budgets together very early now for the next fiscal year and pres and like pre presend their budgets to
finance for questions and then they come and present and answer any questions that finance has which I think is a very lovely plan to get things moving along but that means we have to be there before they even do that. Um, so we're
looking at beginning of the year for us. >> Yeah. But you don't want it all hitting us at once. >> No. Do we? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Um, >> so maybe I'll put a letter together from our committee to department heads
for you guys to approve. I'll send it. I'll bring it. I'll send it at the next meeting. We'll put it together. >> Question for neighbor council first. I don't know. I mean, I'm thinking it's really just approving the what the cola news is because everyone
just moves on the step. The only change is really cola >> and that changes every year whether a cola is given or not >> and what it is. >> I'll get some clarification on it. Uh but it might be a good idea to also introduce ourselves as a personnel committee to these department heads which probably fall on all most if not
all fall under our SA uh the SAP. >> Yeah. um just so they know who to talk to. >> Um they don't even know that we're here probably. We're here. We're ready to go. Um but yeah, does anybody else I mean we
talked about some questions that we have um for clarity on here. Does anybody have anything else? >> We've covered a lot. Are we um
interested in speaking to him as a committee? >> Let's see what he tells you on your next phone conversation and we can decide from there. >> Okay. >> Is that right, Colleen? >> Yep. I think that's great. I think it's better start with that. Let's see where that goes.
>> Great. So that is yeah I mean there's only clarity on a few things >> until it's a simple yes no or defining it just a little little deeper. >> Yeah. >> Um I will have a noteaker for that one
that meeting as well so I can get everything down. >> Now where's the noteaker coming from? >> The AI noteaker will be on my Zoom call. So, I'll use my uh AI chat um notetaker to physically listen to the
meeting and give you a transcript >> and then I will read the transcript and re watch back the meeting to make sure that it's accurate because even AI makes mistakes. >> So, I want to make sure they do. [laughter] So, I want to make sure that it aligns. Um, and that I'm not taking
notes and like I feel like often times your own personal agenda or your own opinion sometimes can get into your notes and the language can be ident, you know, kind of identified as one voice, but if you're doing it through an AI, they're looking at it as two
conversations that are happening and it comes out a little bit more equitable um in the end. Uh, so I will have that generated and then send those meeting notes to you [clears throat]
>> um through the town email. So you have to check your town email and I'll also send it to your personal email just in case. Um, so yeah, let's see. Let's look at >> then discussion of current personnel
related priorities. >> Okay. Um, do so I was thinking most committees have some type of mission statement that kind of reflects um what the committee does and
you know I don't know if we have one. I mean I know what it says at the top of the bylaws. >> Maybe see what town administrator has from file forward. Let me see.
So there is this little snippet. That's too big. I do this if authorized to administer by stat issue amendment and blah blah blah. Um,
I really like to think about this a little bit more granularly about, you know, this is very law. This is very law lawyer talk. Um, and this is very town talk and lawyer talk. And we, you know, we want to combine it,
but also make it sound like a mission statement as opposed to a rule. >> Um, >> it's like the question on the ballot. Make it so everybody understands the question or not. >> Yeah, that's right. So, um, let's think about, does anybody have any thoughts about that? Should we try
to put this together? Put these two, you know, what his interpretation of, um, our role is with the bylaw and see what comes up. >> Could AI do that? >> We could create a mission statement with all of these words in there for general public.
>> Um, [clears throat] it doesn't have to be that long. >> No, it should be five sentences really. Um, and then you know, five or six sentences. >> And where would that live? >> I mean, it could be
>> false. >> Cuz we can't add it to the bylaw. >> Well, we could amend the bylaw. >> Okay. We could amend the bylaw with a mission statement that kind of spec specifically if we're going to be amending the bylaws and taking some things out that may belong more with the
town and town manager and HR that may not belong with us. Um, and I think we need to sit down with Jen and really talk about like what her thoughts are because I think if you know, we we've already moved some things over
off of the bylaws um, at last town meeting. Um, and you know, I'm not going to speak for her, but I think there are some things on here, and I sometimes tend to agree with a couple of things that shouldn't be like our
responsibility. But, you know, um, I think we could amend the bylaws with a more, like you said, forward- facing mission statement. That's understandable to all. Um, >> would she be willing to zoom in one night with us? Yeah, if we invite her to
a meeting, she definitely would be. Um I Yeah, I think so. I think so. >> Only for, you know, to commit >> and I think, you know, HR should be at that meeting as well, so that we can all I feel like that's the the trifecta of teams is town manager, personnel committee, and HR director working
together. And HR director really is our guiding light on like the rules and regulations of the town. Um so she's very important person. >> Has any discussion happened on that? I think she used to sit in on all meetings. >> So, it's summer, so I'm thinking that
maybe people are aware. I've invited her to the last two meetings. She hasn't been able to attend the last two. Um, our next meeting is on the 17th. Um, so there'll be more of a more agenda items that are going to be
strongly based on the conversations we have with Mark um on there. and then maybe we can add, you know, town manager and her on to that. But I really, and I think Mark's going to be coming to that uh meeting as well on the 17th.
>> Yeah, I think he agreed to fall. >> It will be. So, it might be a nice time to like go over all of these things together um and see where everybody is at. Uh, I
would like to have Mark as kind of a listening partner in that if we're talking Jen and you know and then use him as a consult. Um, or maybe we just have that meeting as this and then the next meeting after that is just Jen and HR after we have that discussion. Maybe that would be a better um to do it all
together. I think would be too much. We have Mark here and we're going over this and we're going over the, you know, um, the language interpretation. That's one thing. And then I think we can move on with Jen and um what is the HR
manager's name? I forget. >> HR payroll me. >> Uh HR Julie Belul Julie. Um >> maybe that would be a followup to that instead of trying to shove all of that into >> you have four pe three people
>> trying to answer that one question. >> Yeah. >> About him doing it and then they can pipe in afterwards. >> Yeah. Um and and and Jen and um Julie are more than welcome to attend the meeting with Mark and I'm assuming
Jen will um but you know following I think it should be just us and Jen and um Julie >> to go over some of the questions that we have. Um and just because there's an interpretation of a language doesn't
mean that's like the way it is. Yeah. >> Right. >> Like we have that we won't you know we have to understand that this is your interpretation. This is ours. We have you know >> to a settlement. >> Yep. Yeah. So great. Um
so maybe we can talk about that. I can put some language together. Um if we're going to be amending the bylaws we have what town meeting is in November. Are we looking for special town meeting or annual? >> Well, if we could get it done by annual,
if we want to amend the bylaws or add anything like a a new mission statement or like our mission statement, we could do that at if we can get it together quick enough um at annual town meeting. >> You mean special? >> Oh, special. The one in the fall. Yes, I
think we can. If not, >> do we know when the morg opening closes for that? Have they flushed it yet? >> I know there's a lot of meetings going on right now. >> There are a lot of meetings going. I kind of want to get by the one that's happening on the 3rd of September. See
what happens. Um I think it's 45 days. >> Okay. >> Uh before the meeting and has town meeting been set yet the special town meeting. >> Yes, special town meeting. >> It's a great great question. >> So that's a good question. I will follow up with Ben on that. So the website
going to the calendar right now >> or a I might Um, let's see. >> I guess I >> No, it's in November. It's usually one of the first weeks in November. >> Yeah.
So, that would be let's say the >> No publish events in November, but I'm pretty sure the date set. >> So, if we get it in if we have something set by like midepptember, I think we should be good. >> Yeah. >> Um, to get it in. I believe it's 45. I
believe it's 45 days. But Karen Manard, I wish she was here. She's two months. >> That's Yeah. Um, so I know Jen kind of does want to move a little quickly on trying to figure out our bylaws and what our roles are so that she can move on and do her job to the best of her
ability. Um, and I think that's what we all want. Um, you know, so let's work towards that goal. Um, if not, we can always call, you know, um,
an additional special town meeting to amend bylaws and things like that. I hate to do it. It's very, very expensive. Um, but I'd like to try to get this in as soon as we can. >> Um, and I think it's doable. I think it's doable. I think we we work quickly
together and talk things out quickly together. Um, [clears throat] and yeah. So, is there anything? >> Yeah. My only thought is if we're making changes to the bylaws and stuff, it would be good to have some listening sessions or something.
>> Yep. >> With employees, those who are affected. >> Yeah. So, I think the first thing we should do is get a list of >> who we're [clears throat] representing from Julie. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> who would it be possible to get that for the next meeting?
We should be able to I'm going to request it right now. >> Oh [clears throat] wow. >> I mean some of this might be >> Do you want to call her home? >> No. Bring it home. >> Yes, she's got spreadsheets so she can adjust
>> requests for SAP employees. >> Yeah. then finish. You keep going. >> Um, and then we were talking about other things we're going to request. Are we going to talk about that at the next
meeting then? >> What do we thought? What are our thoughts? Um, so I mean I think that kind of spreadsheet where we know which employees fall under the SAP and kind of where what step grade they're at.
>> Um, >> step and plus or whatever. >> Yeah. And then also exempt or non-exempt, the job descriptions. >> All right. >> Again, I don't want to make this time prohibitive for her, but >> Well, I mean, a report's important.
where we're allowed to ask and summer is slow. >> Y >> Okay. So, the personal like to request you just list them off and I'll type it in. >> Okay. [laughter] Um >> we're all full. on a spreadsheet of all
SAP employees, current SAP employees or current employees subject to the SAP with current grade and step sheet of employees under the SI including
rate range and step related. Anything else? Um, I mean I think at some point we need all the job descriptions. >> Anyone else? >> Job description. Anybody coming up for
new hire termination or discipline? >> I don't think we don't want that. >> Oh, thank you. Sorry. >> You don't want to get into that. um and possible new hires
that may fall under the SAP. I mean, we're not hiring anybody. that, you know, um the only other thing at some point would be the um current elective buying agreements.
I just looked at they're not um up to date online. and any individual contracts. >> Yeah. Do we may I don't know if that's something we request or that we have something we need more clarification on. But
>> why don't we ask and we can get correct in that. That's I put in Rick permitted. Could you please submit? >> All right. >> We'd also love to have you join any and all of our meetings. [clears throat]
>> Oh, seems like >> why not? >> Even if she only spent 10 minutes with us, you know, cuz I understand beyond her time. But >> Well, all I mean is a hybrid. So, >> yeah, >> cuz I understand evening's tough. >> Yes.
>> Yeah. when you work full-time. >> As you know, I used to. >> I'm still in my clothes. [laughter] >> Wow. >> I haven't even had a chance to change yet. I shower cuz I mocked out the call the go. [laughter] >> Are your feet dry? Cuz we don't need uh
>> I had to put on dry. [laughter] >> You said downpour fast. >> Was Yeah, it was bad. >> Now, what's the color for next meeting? [laughter] All right. Great. [snorts] I'm going to copy and paste this
through. >> If we show them the same color, that's going to be a little scary. >> It is. [clears throat] If we start thinking that way, the same thing. That's not good. Or maybe it's great. Let's see. >> A solid color or something. And just >> I always wear light colors in the in the
summer to accentuate my tan. >> Yellow. All right. Personnel committee information request. I will read it to you and we can agree on the subjects. I guess we get to take a vote on it if we needed to. Um, hello
Julie. Hope you're well. The personal company would like to request the following information to support our upcoming work. a spreadsheet of all employees covering under covered under the SAP including each employees current grading step the current job description for each SAP covered position a list of anticipated or proposed new hires that
may fall under the SAP current collective bargaining agreements and current individual employee contracts. We would also greatly appreciate your attendance at our meetings when whenever your schedule allows. Even joining us briefly would be helpful as it would give us the committee an opportunity to ask questions and receive clarifications
in real time. Please let me know if you need anything any additional information from us on these materials um or if we should be requesting these through another process. >> Excellent. >> Sounds great. All right, let me CC you
Pauline Roy David at Luniver and I also send it to your I got to get the Lunberg set up. >> I think I only have your town on here. What's your O? >> All right. DWB
>> DWB >> 019 52. >> You're giving your your >> I know. Do you realize your email address? Okay. >> Now the social security. >> No, I you don't need to do anymore because it came up. So there's more people, but you're not going to get it. Secret.
>> I have it. I have it. [laughter] Okay. Um, Julie's out of office and she'll be back August the week of August 3rd. So, >> no, she'll come back next next Monday. Uh, so great. >> So, we won't expect anything this
[clears throat] week because she's enjoying the summer. We want her to be able to enjoy >> if we could walk to her. >> Um, [clears throat] >> and what is our last item on the agenda? Uh, meeting venue. Okay. Was there
>> so you know I was informed that this >> I don't know it didn't >> um I was informed that we do not have to record all our meetings and we do not have to be in person we can be on Zoom um but myself as someone who works with
towns and cities and Lunar being a transparent city I feel like we should um >> okay it's not a problem >> okay Okay. Um, so we can't we have this venue through
the end of the year. Um, as long as we come a little bit early now I know how to set up the Zoom. Um, we can make sure that you get settled in. Um, >> because it only took a second once we came through the door. >> Yep. Okay. >> It's Yep. >> As long as you're okay with this venue. >> Thank you. Yes.
>> Yeah. Um, >> the elevator is unique. Honestly, you know, as the winter progresses and there's more of a a a level entry spot, like I wouldn't mind using the senior center, but the only problem is they don't have the owl. So, it would
have to be the library um or here, >> okay, >> or town hall, which is too big for us, I think. Um Oh, there's a DPW as well. There's one at the DPW. >> So, maybe we can think about those
venues. Um, this is hard to navigate, I think, in the winter. >> Yeah. >> Um, it's a long walk to the door. There's severed. >> Yep. >> Now, does the police or fire have the owl in their meeting rooms? >> I don't know why I can't move.
>> I'm not touching it. I'm afraid to like >> But like today, we don't have the screen on. >> I know. We didn't turn. >> So, we >> I think it's really just a video thing. >> We don't for it. >> Yeah. All right. So, I will I will contact um >> So, this thing lives here.
>> This lives here. These live in the buildings that they're on. So, there's one at the DPW, there's one here, and there's one at the library. >> Um I'm not sure about the police or fire. Um I would be surprised if they didn't have one, but >> not all something first floor year round
access. >> So, I will reach out to it and see what locations have it >> for the school. um a school. >> I'm sure they have something but I don't I'd rather not. >> It's you know they have activities going
on and that janitors have to be involved in you know different type of access. >> Um and then we can kind of determine whether this is going to be ideal for bad weather uh meetings. Um and then
also we need to bulk up this committee. Yeah. So, um, anybody out there, no one's listening or watching, but if you do happen to watch, you know, later on, you know, we're very nice people. We are have the best interest of the SAP workers and the and the in the community
and in our in our hearts. So, um, feel feel free to join us. Good work. >> Yes. >> Um, and on that note, um, I make a motion to join the meeting at 8:07 p.m. >> And I'll second that. And all those in
favor say I. I. >> I. All right. This meeting is adjourned. >> Wow, that was fast.