All right. Hopefully. >> Thank you. >> It's a team effort. >> All right. All right. Let me uh read the opening here and we can get started. Uh good evening. This is uh the town of
Lunberg Capital Planning Committee meeting. It is Thursday, April 30th at 7:05 p.m. We are starting a little bit late due to technical difficulties on my part. Um, in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law, please be advised that this meeting is
being recorded and will be able to be found on the Lunberg access YouTube channel after the meeting. To view remotely, um, you can find the link on the agenda. It is a zoom meeting and the meeting ID is uh 7663167607.
The agenda lists all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair. Votes may be taken as a result of these discussions. Not all items listed may in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be
brought up for a discussion to the extent permitted by open meeting law. Okay. Uh so having called the meeting to order, um is there any public comment? Okay, hearing none. Uh next item on the
agenda is the chair's report. Um first of all, uh this is a continuing theme. I apologize. I've been out of sorts and uh have not been able to get meetings going as we had hoped and anticipated. Um, I've run into a a series of both
professional and personal challenges over the course of the last several months and uh I apologize and appreciated your patience in getting us here. Um, tonight's meeting is intended to uh primarily take a look at the capital
plan as uh proposed by the town manager and printed in the warrant booklet. Um obviously there's been some amount of discussion uh at both the select board and finance committee uh
about this capital plan. Uh there's some expectation um or or um thoughts that there may be some discussion about it at town meeting uh in particular about the the funding sources for it. So I would imagine that
that will likely come up uh for discussion this evening. um we can determine how we deal with it if we vote to recommend approval, if we vote to stay where we are in terms of our our previous uh votes um or any
other action, but I thought it appropriate to get us together uh hear the town manager as a capital planning committee uh listen to uh her plan both in terms of the items as well as the financing plan uh and then kind of go
from there uh in in preparation for town meeting. Uh in the event that um we or I are are called to speak on this. Um so with no first of all there are any questions relative to uh the intent and
purpose here? No. Okay. Uh so with that um madam town manager. >> Yes, Mr. Chairman. Um before you came on, we were all having difficulty um trying to share our screens to share the
presentation. Do you happen to have the capability to drive? >> Well, I definitely have the presentation. So, the best I can tell you is I will take a shot at that. Uh >> Matt, make him co-host, too, I think.
>> Or maybe not yet. Maybe >> don't yet. Yeah, try both. Um, so okay, here's the disabled share. >> Actually, why don't I just make Peter host? >> I'm not sure it's gonna help, but
>> Well, I can share. I I >> I can share, too. >> I >> You can share, Chris. >> Yeah. So, if you make him co-host, he'll >> Awesome. >> Okay. Okay. >> Does it let you share now, Chris? >> Yeah. >> Oh,
okay. Well, Peter, I made you a co-host. All right, let me give it a run here. >> He has jet lag. >> He must. >> So, it looks like I can I need to
put this into presentation mode. Okay. and short sleeve over here and here and share. >> How's that? >> There we go.
>> Hot dang. >> All right. >> Perfect. >> That looks good. We're somewhere in there. All right. So, we're I can tell we're at the beginning. So, um next slide, please. >> All right. This is just this these are the slides I'm going to be uh presenting to town meetings. So this is you next
slide and then the process. Next slide. And then that there were 22 total projects uh for a combined total of $3.2 million. Uh next slide.
And this is the totality of the projects, the individual requests and their cumulative costs. Next slide. Okay. And this is the final FY27 capital program that will be presented to town meeting on this Saturday. Um in the
preliminary capital plan, we did not have certified free cash as you recall. So we were um operating under assumptions of a much smaller amount of free cash and uh we skipped over a couple of projects. um and did not fund
the list in sequential order. Um, with the certified free cash, I went back and uh moved down the ranking that was adopted and approved by this body after your consideration and have um gone
forward with projects 1 through 12, which is about where I was hoping that we would be able to land on um for a total capital program of $1,830,000. $830,23.
All right, next slide, please. Okay, so uh this is a a chart showing um the historical capital uh program funding. Um you see in the FY1718, the capital program was much lower. Um that
also relates to the amount of free cash that was available at the time. and the capital program has fluctuated throughout the years but average of 1.287 million. Um free cash is often used as a funding source uh for the capital
program at varying amounts um as well as taxation. So that's raise and appropriate that is um money from the levy. Um this year's amount uh is the same as last year's. So you see here
before you FY26 at $244,576 um and in prior years that amount well in the immediate year prior it was zero. You also had ARPA funds in FY25. Um but in prior years the amount of money um that supported the capital plan
from taxation was much higher and as I understand by design. Um and then the fourth source was or the third source was um unexpended prior year capital. Um and so if you go to the next slide,
my funding recommendation is that for the $1.8 $8 million FY27 capital plan. We fund um $991,627 from free cash that we keep the um
funding from taxation uh $244,576 in the capital plan and that we use 594,000 from the special purpose stabilization fund. So, um, when I had originally started, uh,
planning for FY27's operating budget, uh, I was knowing knowing that it was going to be a tight year, I was initially looking at this $244,000 as a potential to come inside the operating budget. Um but also at the
same time not having had certified free cash. Um and I was working on a much lower assumption based on our last um five to 10 years of both medians and um averages
and means. um that if we if we have more of our average free cash without the secondary support of taxation um we can really fund a lot less projects and I think that when you saw my preliminary capital plan you felt
that right that you had listened to all these projects you saw the need and we were not funding lots so that really highlighted to me the importance if we are able to keep room within in the operational budget to help support capital. Um I think that that's
something that the community should at least consider. And the final um the final uh funding source is the special purpose stabilization fund which as you know um we have not utilized before. There had been prior uh capital plans
that initially proposed uh utilizing the special purpose stabilization fund. Um but ARPA stepped in at the right time and and those funds were left to grow. Um so next slide please. >> Sorry.
>> Okay. >> All right. This is just a little bit about the special purpose stabilization fund. Um started in 2017. Uh the it's for capital needs for vehicles and equipment. Acquires 2/3 vote and the
current balance is 2.64 64 million. Next slide. There have been some questions of why if we have additional vehicles um you know there are other vehicles on the capital uh list such as cruisers uh that could
qualify for use of the vehicle uh stabilization fund. Why aren't you just funding everything that you can out of this fund? And the answer really lies in FY28 and FY29. This board knows that
there are some large purchases uh on the horizon and this is potentially a funding source uh for those large uh fire vehicles. So um if you look over time, it does not take long for um the
capital stabilization fund to be fully depleted. if we were to fund every vehicle that we could out of it. Next slide, please. And okay, and I don't think that you all so need to see the rest of this presentation, although you're happy to
uh just flow through it if you want. These are the individual projects that you heard presented through the fall and winter months um that are included in the FY27 capital plan and will be presented to town meeting on Saturday. >> Okay. Um, does anybody want to go
through those or are we sufficiently? >> I think we're good with the work we did. >> Yep, I agree. Okay. So, the way it stands now though, this means that the capital plan article
will require a twoth3 vote. >> That's correct. because of the use of the capital stabilization fund as a part of the funding source. >> So otherwise it would be a simple majority vote.
>> Can can it be broken out into two votes? Do or do we not want to do that? >> Um it could be broken out into two votes. Um I if it's hard to predict what's going to
happen at town meeting. I don't I don't think that there's going to be um concern about using the vehicle stabilization fund. To the contrary, I think that the the thought might be to use more from the vehicle stabil put more things into the vehicle
stabilization fund and to release that $244,576 to be available for use in the operating budget. >> That is what I think is going to be more of the issue at town meeting. So,
I I do think that it's probably worth talking through the scenario. Um, in the event that we don't hit the 2/3, that would be a vote, an all an all in vote, move the article and vote on the
article. In the event that it fails, we don't have a capital plan. >> Correct. There would have to be a motion to reconsider, then an amendment to change the funding source, and then a revote. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, I think that
while unlikely, that scenario probably needs to be discussed with the moderator in advance. Fair note. Hold on one moment. I just want to make sure I get a writing utensil. Does does voting does having two votes?
One on the Rob. I think we I lost you there. Rob just froze. Okay. Well, hopefully we get him back. rest of the stuff that's just a majority sort of less.
>> Rob, you broke up. Can you uh can you restate your question? >> Can you hear me now? >> Yes. Uh so does does having two separate votes, one on everything that requires a
simple majority and one on the special purpose stabilization fund lessen the impact of that problem. At least then we'll we'll have a capital plan with everything else. >> I think the problem is that structurally
the warrant is the warrant and it's presented as a single article and you can't You can't direct the the the article is not structured such that you're directing specific dollars from specific sources to
specific product specific projects. >> You could >> because of the nature of this particular article. It's because on another type of article what you're proposing I think the answer would be yes. But because the capital article is
presented to town meeting as a in its entirety, not subject to amendment on town meeting floor other than for the dollar value, all of the 1 through 12 items, there
would be no way to vote those separately, I think, is the issue because of the way this article in particular is structured. You couldn't take >> What if we we just What if we just voted the dollar values? Can we have two
votes? One of of the free cash dollars and one of the special purpose stabilization fund dollars. I don't I I still think we have the same issue that the FY the the way the capital plan is presented to town
meeting is one and so >> so >> I think it comes back to the greater issue that probably is deserving discussion post town meeting. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think there is a
scenario whereby somebody wants more or less special purpose stabilization fund money. I think that that can be amended. The funding source can be amended as well as the final dollars >> and
we can deal with it. Council and moder council and moderator discussed this with us on on Wednesday and all agree that that is a possible scenario. >> Yeah. Um Okay. So,
so here's the the crux of the matter. Um and this is this is just Pete Beardmore's opinion. We can discuss this as a as a committee and kind of think this through here. I just want to kind of cut to the chase
and get to a resolution as quickly as possible in terms of our work that we need to do here. Um, in my view, I would vote to recommend approval on this as it is presented today.
Um, I could spend the next 10 minutes explaining my opinion, which is similar, although not exactly aligned to the town managers in terms of the importance of raise and appropriate in here. Um, but
it's also not a hill I would die on, right? Like if if town meetings said we want this to be all free cash and no raise in appropriate but the money is the same like okay I don't think that that's the right fiscal path to go down
and I think could create problems down the road but like I I could live with it. I but I my question is is like do we think we as a committee should vote to
to um endorse this plan as is or just the items and leave the financing to town meeting or some other some other scenario? So, let me let me specifically ask Chris because I think Chris is probably the
most involved in this from a finance committee perspective in terms of just your thoughts on it. >> I just one question I do have, do we have a policy related to funding sources of capital
>> with respect to free cash? We do. >> Yeah, under the free cash policy. Um, give me just a shake. >> Open the policies and do a control F. >> Um, more specifically on the raise and
appropriate. >> Got it. Okay. I mean, take a look. >> I don't think we do. I think this comes into the I don't recall seeing it in the P. I think it comes into like the the order of merit
for free cash. It's listed in there. But anyways, I I think we should vote on the funding source and I think we've already voted on the capital program, but I think we should vote to endorse this article as funded in the the 12
items that were um put onto the warrant. I'm not seeing anything about that specific question, Chris. >> Okay. So, if on town floor the 244 576 were
moved away and that was the free cash was increased. The budget does have excess free cash that could be used for that purpose. Yeah, I don't think that the issue really is within the FY27
budget. I don't have I don't necessarily have concerns if there was a move to supplant the $244,576 with free cash. I don't necessarily have concerns with that. What I have concerns
with is we've done things within the budget this year, especially if only the balanced budget were to pass that I I anticipate will definitely have an impact on free cash. We had a high this was the highest ever free cash that
we've had this year. And we know that part of the reason for that was an error, a human error, but nonetheless that that's not expected to continue. and to the contrary might actually decline when all is said and done. So, I
think that my concern is not so much about free cash. Um, now it's about going through that exercise where we didn't have a lot of free cash and oh sugar, we're we don't have a robust capital plan. We can barely we have a
lot of need. We have a lot of deferred need. And >> yeah, >> and if we're not, you know, I think that that's to me it's more of um kind of the conversation that Mr. Bowen was I think getting at earlier in the process like
you know do we want to have a philosophical different viewpoint of this and approach capital outlays or but if if right now the way we are approaching capital is the way we have been historically po approaching capital
I worry about how much we're going to be able to do on free cash alone. >> Yeah. Well, it's historical to a point, but I think I'm old enough to remember a time when we used to borrow.
>> Well, and that's what I mean. And and like that to me should be a choice and a discussion that we have some thought behind through several, >> you know, meetings and discussions on not deciding.
>> I think so. And I think fortunately we have a a plethora of free cash this year. So we don't have to face that decision this year. But it is a conversation that we should have.
Look, I mean, if you assume that we're going to have the next several years under the same pressures that we're under right now, if you go back to that slide where we where she outlined the but the the vehicle purchase plan 2032, we're going to be confronted with
some difficult decisions around how we're financing big trucks. So, and in fact, we're kind of kicking the can on some six wheel dump trucks at $400,000 a piece as well. So, you know, we we we we are running into a point
where we have a a capital challenge, right? And and this is a well, in a year where everything else is bad, right? Approaching this with the discipline of putting a disproportionate amount or proportionate amount of free cash into
the the capital plan, I think, is a good thing because nothing on this list is going away, per se. Um, but at the same time, I I if we go and spend this raise and appropriate someplace else, then that becomes the baseline for next
year's budget. And if we need that raise and appropriate money next year, then we got to figure out how we're going to cut someplace else to put the raise and appropriate back in. Right? Like that's the that's the vicious cycle. And Mr. Bowen knows that we've been in that position as you know 25 years ago when
he was a selectman we had that exact same situation going on >> right >> and had to borrow money to buy fire trucks >> and and so there is there is uh about $500,000 of free cash that's kind of left on the table at this point that if
if the planned motions are the motions that pass right that's what would be left so to that end there is funds available ailable. But we also know that we a want to start um with a positive balance in free cash and not have it
fully depleted. B we know that there is a large project in the track that is likely to come up before the fall. And C, we don't know what TC Pacios might be
bringing. Um so there's a lot of reasons to not to leave kind of in my opinion at this point that 500 plus thousand sitting here for these planning purposes. >> Yeah. And there's there's no article to
appropriate anything to any of the stabilization funds. Is that right? >> There are two articles to appropriate to stabilization. One is to appropriate 250,000 to the general purpose stabilization fund and then there is one article to
appropriate 250,000 to the health insurance special purpose stabilization fund. So, so would would would would we want to appropriate this free cash to stabilization for
those bigger purchases or or do you think you need the flexibility to have it as free cash? >> I'm I'm more I'm not really concerned about the free cash and the ability to spend the remaining free cash on some
priorities that we know just aren't ready for this town meeting. I'm more my bigger concern is if we move or if this 244,000 is moved out are are we really and that and is backfilled with free cash are we really considering all the
consequences thereof? >> Yeah. I I guess I my thinking was if if we're appropriating all the free cash to stabilization funds, that's less likely to happen. And then
it losing him again. >> He froze again. >> It was his biggest thought of the meeting coming out right here, right now. Okay. Hopefully, you'll rejoin us in a second.
>> While Rob's coming back online, where where does this come article-wise compared to the >> 13? >> Yeah, it's 13. And so 10, 11, 12 are the budget and
>> 12 is the capital article correction, >> the funding correction from that TCP roof. Um, and then 13 is this. >> Okay. And 10 and 11 are the budget and the override. >> Correct.
>> Okay. >> Okay. Um, one other thing that that Jen brought up that I I do think deserves mention because I've brought this up a hundred times and I don't think we've closed the loop on officially. Um, the school department obviously did not bring the
article uh that had been discussed for uh the engineering plans for the the track and field. Um, I think the preponderance of that issue was the oxygen available in the room
candidly, right? Um, and and the override in the budget. Um, nothing has changed that I'm aware of specific to that issue. Although there has been I think some discussion even since our last
meeting about should we be thinking about a track and field facility in the vicinity of TC Pacios. Um I continue to believe that that's a bad idea in a in a and the wrong path. Um and just opens more like well what do we do with the
old space kind of discussions that I think are just going to take forever to figure out. Um but that nonetheless it's an area I was out there today for a track meet and there's been more damage just in the last two weeks to the surface of the of the track. So, um,
that needs to be dealt with one way or another. And I think that more likely than not, this committee is going to get, uh, pulled into a discussion on this, uh, for special town meeting. And the price tag on that engineering
and planning, I I think is going to be in the vicinity of about 200,000. >> I concur. Okay. All right. Um, what do we think about taking an action to recommend this as presented? >> So moved.
>> Seconded. >> All right. Any further discussion? All right. Hearing none, we will vote. Uh, this is a roll call vote. Uh as we are on Zoom, uh the motion is to approve the town manager or or recommend
approval of the town manager's uh proposed capital plan uh as presented. Mr. Nolo, >> I >> Mr. Brener, >> I >> Mr. Bowen, >> I >> Mr. Manard, >> I
>> and an I for myself. We are unanimous in our recommendation >> and thank you for all of your support in uh viewing these capital projects and asking the good questions and I think that I really enjoyed that process. Um I
learned so much through it and I couldn't do it without um all of your institutional knowledge to help guide it. So thanks to the committee for your work on the FY27 capital plan. just in time to conclude to kick off the next one. But
>> all right. Um I don't have any minutes uh for discussion or approval, so we will skip over that. Uh is there any public comment? Okay. Um I I do have a comment. Um obviously there's unfinished business here and again I apologize for not
pushing that through uh with respect to the outyear out years and our our work that needs to be done on that. Um I'm not sure if I will be involved in that when this is all said and done. Um more like you know we're we're about to go through an election committees will be
reorganized. This committee will be uh reappointed and touched on at least by four different committees. So, um I think more likely than not I will not be the school committee representative next year. >> You got to remember this this committee is a three-year term.
>> I understand that. Yep. I I fully understand. Um that notwithstanding um the school committees has historically taken a one-year crack at this um as have other committees on an annual basis. Um,
candidly, I don't know when my term expires, so that would be some research that I would need to do. Um, but I I I I just don't know where I'm going to land or or where this committee lands. So, I I just want to apologize for that. This is something that I really wanted to
push through as well as candidly the the track and field project that was candidly well beyond my control. But I I I really I think we need to figure that thing out. And to the extent that I can be involved, I certainly will be. So, um, in any event, thank you
everybody for your help and support and patience on this over the course of the last several months and, uh, looking forward to seeing y'all on Saturday. >> Can't wait. >> Yep. >> Should be fun based on everything I've
heard. Um, is there a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. Second. Second. >> All right. We have a motion from Mr. Brener, a second from Mr. Manard. Mr. Nolo. >> I. >> Mr. Brener. >> I. Mr. Bowen.
Lost him. >> Hi. >> This time there, he's back. >> He said it. >> Okay. A yes for Mr. Bowen. Mr. Manard. >> Hi. >> All right. We are adjourned. Thank you all very much. I appreciate this. Good night. >> Thank you. See you Saturday. Take care.
>> Thanks.