##VIDEO ID:N2YAK12wDKI## enable recording in progress all right good evening uh today is Monday October 21st it is 6:30 p.m. and we are in the Ritter Memorial Building main floor meeting room uh my name is Peter beardmore chair of the capital planning committee and I am calling this meeting to order in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and will be able to be found on the lunenberg access YouTube channel after the meeting to view this meeting remotely from a computer please use the link provided in the uh agenda and in the event of a problem with the remote meeting feature this meeting will proceed in person as schedule the agenda lists all the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items listed May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law uh I am tonight recording from a webcam to my immediate right so I will be doing my best to follow the discussion with the camera for the benefit of those watching on Zoom I'm not and I'll explain why in a moment but I'm not anticipating a large audience on Zoom um but we will make sure that this is recorded in posterity and we have my uh buddy to the left over here uh uh recording uh for the benefit of Public Access um is there any public comment Mr B none Okay I uh seeing no public comment uh chair's report following our last meeting uh a couple of things to report first of all uh we still do not have um either issues relating to it resolved uh that includes a shared folder that we can all work from which is why we all got a few different emails for me today it is the least efficient way of doing business but that is the way we are operating for the time being um and we do not have a date and time specific to hear a capital plan request from uh the from the IT department um one other item of note um in the conversation that I referenced at our last meeting pertaining to um my meeting with the DPW director he had brought uh an issue to my um attention pertaining to some new state of Massachusetts um uh dot rules that are basically advancing or accelerating um some vehicle efficiency and electric vehicle uh requirements for heavy equipment um which were are basically intended to be adopted nationally uh in January of 2027 but Massachusetts had accelerated to 2025 and was going to create some potential hardship for us uh when it came to uh obtaining uh heavy equipment Vehicles basically they're not available uh and they're much more expensive than the gas powered equivalents that exist today um I had passed that notice along to our state delegation received a notification from representative kushar uh from from representative kush's office late last week um that the do had uh postponed that enforcement by one year uh so that'll go to January of 26 um and we'll see where we're at a year from now in terms of pricing and availability of these more efficient heavy equipment vehicles um I didn't want to forward that communication because of open meeting issues and my communic ation with um the legislative offices but following this meeting I will forward that communication from representative kar's office to you all so that you have it and you right into the situation prior to our meeting with the DPW uh in early November um and that is it uh for uh for my chair's report uh we'll talk about follow on meetings in a few moments uh Heather any questions no okay um if it's all right with you all uh in the interest of time I'm going to move review and approved minutes back uh so that we can get right into the meet of the discussion which is the presentation from uh the school department and the superintendent is that all right with you guys yep sounds good all right did you send the presentation or I did earlier today I think I copied you think you send it I got one for if you go to the Wednesday the revised agenda for today has it in that if you go down to the bottom of the email the attachments are there they're not listed otherwise as attachments I got it yeah took me a few minutes they're also fairly large so they were they were not attached but linked as Google files you should have access to it shouldn't be a problem but if you have an issue by all means let me know and again I apologize for the technical challenges got it fine just took me a minute to find them cuz it didn't show up and out looks convenient yeah hey look I'm a nice little download for you yeah yeah all right uh so that being said let me open my deck share it on Zoom Dr vernham you're welcome to take up a seat at the table thank where's that and while I'm looking for my file turn the camera people all right um we are shared I did not print out the deck if you guys want to join in the um Zoom you can follow along um or you can just read as you go whatever your preference I'm trying to get it ready cuz I don't have I have the presentation open so MH not I found it and Dr Burnham I am uh currently sharing the PowerPoint so you and I can connect via slide number or title or whatever your preference is is on advancing slides so the um while we're waiting the the issue that came up relative to the zoom is the zoom that is posted on the town website is not the zoom that is in the revised version of the posting um it was posted physically I went over and checked but did not make the town website tonight so if you want to get into the zoom you have to use the version of the of the uh agenda that I emailed earlier today like I said it's been one of those days and I recognize that the town clerk's office is uh running double duty with um early voting so I think that's added to the challenges okay are we ready we ready Tom you good I'll follow along as best I can okay all right Dr burum the Flor is yours all right so um we'll Jump Right In with uh requests for FY 26 um they are being presented in the slide deck as well as in the um more narrative version of the the request in priority order um these priorities were um assigned and voted uh by the school committee on September 4th so Priority One is uh a feasibility study for the entry and driveway expansion at the primary school uh we're estimating a cost of 30,000 on that um funding will allow for um a designer to come in um and do a feasibility study of the following areas the massav entry um current parking capacity expansion of the driveway itself and uh driveway parking to the school facility um evaluation of emergency access of police fire and EMT vehicles um as well as a review of any environmental limitations uh due to Wetlands um for us we see this as a safety liability when there's parking on both sides of that driveway um the available um roadway is is really not sufficient to allow any of the larger emergency vehicles to get through um we also know that we would need increased parking we know that parking is a problem with any school event uh where parents would attend the town again this is priority ranking number one from the school committee priority two again at the primary school this would be for designer services for playground equipment again we're estimating 30,000 uh funding here would allow um allow us to contract a playground designer who would work with all the stakeholders in developing a new age appropriate inclusive and accessible playground for the students of the primary school here too uh we see the benefits as reducing liability to the town because the scale of the play equipment is reduced and therefore um we see uh the potential for reducing risk of serious injury um of course we would want the playground design to be inclusive and accessible for all students which current um students with um disabilities have limited access priority three is at Turkey Hill Elementary School and that's the replacement of a hot water tank we're estimating that the cost here is 20,000 we would be replacing um a hot water tank that was built in 200 two uh the typical useful lifespan is 20 years so we're already um on borrowed time with that one uh upgrading this uh piece of equipment we would expect that we would see improved Energy Efficiency and certainly reliability knowing that we're not worrying that it could go at any time um historically for maintenance uh on this one uh routine checks and cleaning of the tank and again this is uh priority ranking three priority four just on that priority three y would you intend to get State funding to help with that question leading towards the useful life of the building discussion that went on for a while so relative to msba funding yeah um this kind of a project right now is not on any of their uh accelerated repair projects that are allowable this year um the the pro the the projects that were deemed eligible were limited to roof replacement and window replacement okay um and just more broadly they're moving away from boiler Replacements because they're looking to go more green energy in the future um but those were only two kinds of projects for Accelerated repair this year we won't know uh until January uh what kinds of projects are on the year acceptable eligible list for next year but I'm I'm not anticipating that this would be one of them okay okay priority four also at the primary school this would be for a generator uh currently um that's that's an updated quote that you have here um 171,00 896 um currently there isn't a generator deck we got the wrong number right um again this is like hot off the presses this was the last edit I did so the generator is say again the number the generator is 171 896 is that size for the entire school or just for those items just for those items um the the original 70,000 that I had as a as a it wasn't a true quote it was more of a um a number that was provided to me by the same company uh over the phone not having the benefit of being out to look at the location of the places that they would want to be able to power with the generator location where they would be able to put the generator Etc uh and also not knowing exactly the size that they would need for the generator this oh do you want questions now or at the end in the priority for was under the Assumption it was about 100 Grand cheaper I don't think that the priority was based on the dollar value as much as the benefit of the project um right now the primary school does not have a generator mhm so if we were to have a prolong power outage during a cold snap we run the risk of um freezing uh water lines inside the building because we can't keep the heat going uh that leads to all kinds of damages on its own but if we can't keep the freezer and the refrigerator and the kitchen going um we lose all the food that's that's located there too um so I I I don't want to speak for the school committee that the priority was based on the dollar value but more so on the the benefit yeah for the project I mean the number is new so the number was the number when we discussed it so you know we depending upon how this conversation goes it maybe something we Revis from a priority standpoint um 171 is the proper number 171 yeah um the other the other part of that discussion is we are experiencing a high rate of power outages just in that neighborhood of lunenberg um and there there has been some reporting that for lack of a generator and the hard off Hardon effect that a power loss and Recovery creates that that is taxing on all of the systems in the building not the least of which is the panel itself um which is not designed to to not have some sort of uninterrupted power supply supporting him so there's a a likelihood that there's a I don't want to call it a maintenance issue because it's it's not but there's a um there's a degradation of the equipment that we have on hand for lack of this equipment but that's just part of the part of the story it's not the whole story yeah okay priority five the primary school uh window safety film um you have an updated quote on this one as well uh 26,000 $865 this is not a new project we've we've had this discussion prior um but there is some additional information this year around U potential um Energy savings value that could come from installation priority six replacement of the security camera Central server this is a new project that's why you don't have a a number for it and I'm sure you've heard from other department heads that we haven't been able to get into the cleargov and enter new projects and therefore we haven't had any uh new numbers issued as far as project numbers uh the replacement here would be 40,000 um we would be replacing the current box and adding a second box and a a separate location for redundancy um here if the server goes down the district still has access to camera footage and uh would be capable of viewing camera feed in the event of a cyber incident or a districtwide outage um in terms of a cost benefit analysis cloud backup uh still requires the purchase of an on premises proprietary box uh the camera feed does not go directly to the internet um there would be the added cost of recurring subscription fees if it was cloud-based um when you take a look at year-over-year uh in the end the cloud-based backup would be more costly and in the event of an outage um there would be no recording and we would not have access to previously recorded footage which is why we're recommending uh this option where we have um the double uh server backup is this the same system the town is getting or a different system that's a good question I don't know which system the town is getting and then does this feed to Public Safety or just um Public Safety has access to our to our cameras so there might be an advantage to having the same system I can talk to the LPD about that okay I would think that doing the model that we have just adding the Redundant component should leave them intact the way they are they should still be able to access this isn't like move into a a new model it's just an updated yeah uh server is this done with through souer or no no so okay so you have your own networking people mhm okay the last paragraph I I'm not understanding the one that starts with cloud backup still requires I I understand that sentence yep but I don't understand the next one there would be an added cost of recurring subscription fees so when we do cloud backup there's a subscription fee for the cloud are we doing cloud backup now no oh we're not doing cloud backup correct we would opt not to do the cloud backup we would prefer to do the uh replacement of the server and add the additional as a redundant back up so we am I to assume we're not doing any backup right now no we are we are but the um the current server is at end of support I understand that but where are we backing up to now we have a server there's still two we're going from two to two it's a a one to one replacement oh or a two to two replacement as it were gotcha it's just that we considered the option of a cloud backup and we had that discussion benefit okay that's not clear in that paragraph that's why I'm asking because it says negatives year over-ear Cloud would be more costly but no where does it say that we considered going to the cloud okay so part of the discussion was $40,000 is a lot of money for two servers that going be sitting there collecting video right wouldn't it be less expensive if we be L expensive to go to a would be less secure to go to the just to the cloud so this is more secure the cloud backup would still be recommended that would be all right so priority seven is the Middle High School window safety film again this is an updated quote for you $ 33,2 15 and again um you have some uh information relative to uh the product itself and the potential for um some Energy savings priority number eight is a utility pickup with plow um we got an an updated quote on that one um and it is for 64780 that would be uh quote through McGovern Municipal HQ what was the number again 64780 so is that the updated number that's the most recent quote we got what kind of truck is it it's a utility um so um is it a Ford or it's this one here would be for a a Ford it's it's a 350 um with a plow um it's an 8T and it's um it's got the utility uh tool storage boxes on the side of the uh the truck versus a regular plow uh a regular pickup wouldn't have that nor would a nor would a dump truck this particular uh vehicle would be replacing the 2005 Ford dump truck that was um it came to the school department after the DPW was was done with it uh we got that from the DPW back in 2022 um this is a recurring one from last year right multiple years and you can see that you know we've had some uh maintenance on on that particular vehicle as well repairs that need to be done uh hasn't always proven recently to be very reliable when we need it for operations so those are the proposed requests for FY 26 again in rank order uh as voted by the school committee when we look forward to FY 27 um in no particular order um we've got the primary school driveway way Expansion Project this would be the actual construction work um based on whatever comes from the design work um how is that quote arrived at it's an estimate we will the benefit of doing the the engineering study would be that we would get a much better sense of what the actual work would would entail what would be needed in order to make the Improvement and then uh some more realistic cost estimates but still you put in a cost so you must have you must have some criteria or did it just like I can tell you that this was the criteria that we had generally speaking from the year prior and as we know these numbers don't always hold water unfortunately I I think the the number was arrived at if memory served me correctly with the previous facilities director around what would it cost if we had to basically put in what we currently have for driveway and parking again so in in the absence of an engineering plan or a concept of what else we would do this is more or less a replacement cost of what we currently have for that plan okay that some Anchor Point that was the The Genesis now where they got that quote I don't know the specific so the next project um primary school age appropriate and accessible playground equipment again this would be the actual installation removal of existing equipment and installation of new equipment based on the design study um that we hope to conduct in FY 26 again um we have uh taken broken equipment offline until it's repaired um but we also ensure that there's a mulch bed of rubber um mulch pellets uh that's maintained at 12 in in that entire area um there's visual inspection of the actual equipment but um we haven't had to do any uh major repairs um again this is about making it a little bit safer based on the scale of the equipment but also making it such that it's accessible uh by all the students at the school but this is also a playground that's used by the community um when school's not in session so to have it be something that's more accessible to all the the residents in town that might need this kind of accessibility um is it the original equipment there then yeah so what do that make it yeah about 20 years old 20 wow okay I was going to say 15 see time flies can you um just ask um maybe Chris Ruth whether he believes that 170 is a good number okay cuz they're going through a couple playground estimates throughout all right um next up is uh Primary School gas condensing boilers um in FY 27 we would be looking just for the funding to um have the plans developed and again the benefit of of doing the plans in advance is that we would have a more realistic uh cost estimate as well as the specifications that we would need to put the project up in and we're estimating 30,000 on on that as well next project um in FY 27 is the primary school classroom Mini Splits that's Phase 2 um I can tell you that uh we were able to submit by the deadline Friday this project as a green communities Grant project um and we're going to keep fingers crossed that we can actually get funding through through the grant phase two this would be phase two with submitted two yeah yeah I just yep um the good news is is that the uh units that we did install in Phase One are also eligible for um some Unitil rebates some Energy rebates um so again if we we're anticipating that there would be rebates for the units that we would be putting in for Phase 2 as well I see that includes XX systems do we know how what XX is is this $483,000 and we don't know how much we get for that it's just no I need to get some additional uh data on that we literally got everything in under the wire on Friday but I had sent this off in advance so I'll get back to you on the uh the details there all right next project Turkey Hill element school classroom main splits um if all things go well and we receive the grant for Phase 2 at the primary we would be potentially looking to um submit for at least some portion of this particular project at Turkey Hill through green communities I don't think it's going to fund the entire uh amount that it would cost us to um to even to do the estimated 7 17 classrooms um this project is important in that at Turkey Hill we have had challenges in recent Winters um bringing the temperature of the classrooms and maintaining the temperature of all the classrooms at a reasonable uh temperature during cold snaps in the winter time um the system struggles so for us to have um the Mini Splits at the Turkey Hill it's a great um benefit to have the cooling for when the building is really hot when we have hot spells um and we can get those in late August September even into early October as well as late May and June um but this would be a benefit to us even in December January February when we have cold snaps you will not want to use these December January and February not for for cost I had mine in my house and I turned off my furnace just to see what it would cost and it tripled my electric bill so we we wouldn't be replacing the the building wide system this would be for say under under 30 under 35° they do not run efficiently and with the cost of Unitil being near the top in the country it will be you it will explode the electric and I'll have hopefully some additional information for you um maybe Springtime definitely by next fall um the msba was taking a look at um heat pumps uh for schools so in you remember I said that they were moving away from boiler Replacements um they're moving to the green um systems and they're currently this year trying to do a study and get some information relative to whether or not this type of accelerated repair project would be one that they would be looking to fund in future years but they needed to get some information and data on that first does Turkey Hill have a generator yes so it's a little bit of a quandry which is probably better that this is out at least a year in that we have the study going on for Turkey Hill right now to kind of look at all of the systems and you know upgrade replace all those various scenarios associated with and to include uh Ada related topics we have the msba business going on where they're not doing boilers they're studying Mini Splits and other options that are quote unquote green um for school Heating and Cooling this would not be the year to commit to a project of that scale in my view but hopefully a year from now we'll have a lot better information to compare from um but nevertheless we have a serious heating problem and cooling problem but a serious heating problem in that building and and we've got to figure it out um we get classes that are pretty frigid yeah as a former educator who has one kid in Turkey Hill now and has one kid just got into middle school so he's been there um with no unkindness meant to the school department that that building doesn't have in its current status that building does not have the option of being a great place for learning that the staff there is doing amazing work with what they have but the physical environment and I think temperature is a key component of that does Turkey Hill have all the electrical for this I know we've talked in the past about the poor electrical runs throughout Turkey Hill so that's part of what we would have to figure out um will'll end up bringing in um electricians to figure this out to work with um the folks from dayon who have worked with us on the the primary school the initial thought was that yes there would be um but usually once people really get in and start taking a close look that's when you get down to you know the reality of what can and cannot work um but uh I can tell you that you know just going through the process for green committee for the grant um we had to get together a lot of information relative to Energy savings the units that we inst at the primary this past summer would have to be tied into the building management system because that leads to better Energy Efficiency when the whole building is running versus when um the units in the classrooms would be available to run um so we will start taking a look at this now that we uh manag to get everything on an accelerated timeline and in by the deadline um for the phase two at the primary school we can start working on more specifics relative to Turkey Hill um but based on the numbers for the primary school um and if you think all right this many units for this many classrooms that number there is a ballpark just for 17 classrooms and that's not going to cover all of the um spaces where students are are occupying space um that's those are your primary classroom spaces not your art room and Music Room Etc gym right I I this year is the first year I've heard that there's a heating problem in the building so I mean again these are not designed for especially in our environment with Unitil is just not designed for these things I also remember the last time some of the people were talking about them not really being depending which unit you get lifespan and viability for know commercial area I mean you actually may make the whole age fact even more unmanageable I remember that was discussed last year or the year before there was some concern last year in terms of just the lifespan of the condensing units um and I'm not sure that that was ever resolved to anybody's satisfaction what little research I was able to do and I'm an expert you know 0.0 expertise in this the consensus seems to be somewhere between 10 and 15 years but there are some Skeptics that say eight you know no I 10 is 15 I would think is my understanding is the right range depending on but it's also on usage I mean I I know them as home units I don't know if these are commercial units or even if they're even determining or making the distinction between the two which which is again very important one of the hard point points in the discussion about Min splits and Associated heat pumps and everything else is the frequency with which they are used but just frankly they putting in use wildly inappropriately they're the new hot Tech right within HVAC they're getting used a bunch um and I trust the school department Department would do due diligence on this and it sounds like you are because you're discussing supplemental but they're one of those things that has a real good use in our in our climate often as a especially for heat purposes as a supplement rather than your main driver but people will push that they'll tax it that can absolutely hit lifespan and everything else theoretically you know what we we talked about um with with all the entities that were part of pulling together the grant submission for the primary school um the use for supplemental heat on the shoulder Seasons so you know when we get a cool day or two in early October we might use some heat there um again April you know chilly days even in May these units might be good for that um not so much about providing heat through the winter months on a day-to-day basis um and even for us at Turkey Hill it's really there as a backup for those days that you know the the main system is just really struggling and it's not necessarily um even for all of the classroom spaces as much as it is the classrooms that appear to be on the end of the Run for the heating system currently that's where the temperature tends to drop off so if you're the last on the line to be getting that run your your classroom is struggling to to get to a a temperature that's pretty decent and we have to relocate classrooms just like we have to relocate classrooms when it's really too warm in the classrooms we find other spaces that we have to move them to not ideal when boiler it's original to um the Turkey Hill the system the system is original the boiler is not the problem is is that the blowers that are out in the wing are all my understanding is original yeah so it's not so much the boiler's ability to heat the water that's running through the system it's the Blower's ability to and the pumps that are in that system ability to move the water and blow the air or whatever it's doing but it's plant that's out in the class I can understand that if a system used to work and it's not efficient because it has components that are failing or aging you know that I understand so I mean I would look to why wouldn't we just look at what the price is so I I would say that we'll have information on that because that'll be part of the study and we will have um some answers um the entire study needs to be brought to completion by April okay um so we'll have more information on what our options may or may not be here um relative to the the building itself so got all right uh next is the Middle High School turf field um it's the entire uh complex we had Opa funds to do an engineering assessment um we got a full report back um and what they're saying is um it's a $920,000 estimate to remedy um all of The Hardscape and the drainage in the hill um behind the bleachers under the Press Box um and then another estimated roughly 500,000 um to replace the Tarin track and there's a there's a full report on that are you replacing the track or just the turf I think based on the there's little bit more work that still needs to be done there yeah but um because the the work that we had done in terms of the engineering work literally went down to the flat surface uh so there's a little bit more work still happening with respect to the flat surface itself um Mr Bigalow believes that the track needs to be at a minimum resurfaced um not necessarily replaced but resurfaced and um the the turf needs to be repl yeah I mean it's the whole area has taken a lot of wear and tear from the poor drainage that we've been dealing with for years who's Mr Bigalow he's the ad all right next project is the Middle High School auditorium Booth these would be for um audio upgrades um which would lead to some improved audio in the auditorium during large events plays concerts assemblies but um more importantly actually the special town meeting and the annual town meeting um hopefully with improved audio um we would have some residents who have decided that the audio is so difficult for them um with hearing impairment that they they no longer attend so hopefully if we can um do some upgrades here um we do have uh devices that individual attendees can get when they come to the meeting that will help if they are wearing hearing aid devices um but we do need to address the the underlying uh General audio issues as well and we're estimating that based on uh a quote from last spring uh approximately 44,000 the Middle High School concession stand Fieldhouse uh we'd like to be moving that entire building over to a key card system and away from a hard key um it'll be a lot easier for us to provide access to all of the users um but also maintain security because we'll be able to um when each user's uh key card would actually provide them access to the facility and which part of the facility me that's it for 27 moving on to 28 um again in no particular order the primary school gas condensing boilers that's the replacement um based on uh um whatever the the design assessment plans would call for um we're uncertain at this point whether it would be eligible at all for Anything Green communities um it's under review this is one of the products projects that they're taking a look at given that the deadline uh for fall submissions was just last Friday the folks from Green communities were really kind of focused on uh trying to help folks get their um their proposals in under the deadline um so still under review with green committee um and again based on the uh the word from msba right now projects like this are not looking promising for Accelerated repair uh reimbursements but that could change um Turkey Hill a complete window replacement um and this is a whole another year now right this is 28 yeah okay um there's a lot of uh floor to ceiling uh windows in that building as well as um the awning uh type windows that are in each of the classrooms again all of the the windows in this building are single pain so there's not a lot of Energy Efficiency here um it's a project that you know potentially uh we'll have some additional information coming out of that ADA um building study for the for the turkey ho as well um again another pickup truck with plow this is just a regular pickup not a utility not a dump truck um this one would be replacing the 2012 Ford F250 which will be 17 years old in FY 29 um current mileage on that vehicle is a little more than 52,000 Mi um this is the kind of uh replacement that may be eligible for some uh grant funding much like the uh vehicles that are being replaced at the police department you know moving to a hybrid model and again given uh the criteria that are coming from the state that are on hold for a year we'll have more information about what Will and will not be um allowable as we proceed what are the two trucks used for so or how many trucks do you have I guess um we use them for plowing we use them for moving materials um from one building to another we use them um throughout the year for our uh Grounds Maintenance um you know we get a windstorm lots of branches come down we're moving around trying to clean up the grounds from you know heavy debris um sometimes you know we've had significant size tree limbs come down that we're cutting up um and and moving uh with trucks um and of course we use the all the vehicles for snow remov uh throughout the winter but they are in use all year round and the thought is you'd replace with another F250 or equivalent okay in that particular one yes yeah cuz the other one was a F350 right okay cool because it's replacing a a typical pickup at this point and no one takes these home at night they then like some of our vehicles get no taken home nope they remain on property um I think he's still got to convince me on the plowing but why the DPW can't do that but Peter and I will have that debate for a long time you just go back to the other meetings come last year and the year before okay um sides are chosen the window replacement project at Turkey Hill that's the actual installation of of new windows um again and um this is the kind of project that may Again by fy3 I'm not sure what will be the allowable accelerated repair projects but if we were doing this project today this would be a project that would be eligible for mba's Accelerated repair program funding um the next project is the middle school high school replacement of the wallmounted projectors in all of the classrooms and the common areas um we have a wallmounted projector in the cafeteria um in the collaboration rooms um by this point um they'll be you know at end of life um typically these have a 10 to 15E uh lifespan um we do replace bulbs um but eventually when these things start to become less reliable it's a lot more challenging to uh troubleshoot older Tech equipment and there might be something that far out that might be more cost effective um as a replacement but right now this is the replacement that we can see on the horizon yeah I was going to say t or what we use at work now known us projectors anymore so we'll see what the technology looks like as we advance another couple of years there might be something that's um actually more cost effective they are pretty amazing that's a really good Tech it's worked out well I mean one of I mean a lot has been wrong with that building since we put it into use eight years ago whatever it was but this is one thing that has actually played out pretty well and then um we've got um Network firewall replacement uh that's a an estimated cost at this point of 80,000 and we would um be looking to you know replace the network firewall because by fy3 we're expecting that we'll be at end of life on that um and potentially not having um any routine updates that are maintaining and viable so current firewall is already 5 years old what kind of firewall they're getting for $80,000 that seems extraordinarily High don't know what's included in it do I yeah but I I recall replacing the last one yeah know so it just it's hard to believe it's been five years already but that was a project my first year on the finance committee so oh wow yeah um FY 31 districtwide phone system upgrade um by fy3 we will um be working with a product that is no longer supported so we're going to have to uh make an upgrade an upgrade at that point um we're hoping that that point that we can upgrade to a system that's completely voice over IB however Maybe by that time there's some more advanced technology that um might be the better move um still a little bit too far out to say for sure but just know that by by 2030 the current system will no longer be supported um I've got Turkey Hill School renovation or new build sort of as a placeholder in FY 31 obviously I think a decision will have to be made before FY 31 but that really is pending all of the information that we'll get from the study that's getting underway on that building right now because a new build wouldn't be this committing renovations mhm and that's why it's just a placeholder right just to kind of keep it on everybody's radar mhm well this committee would need to factor it into our plans absolutely yeah all right by FY 33 we'd be looking for a replacement mower we're estimating a cost of 55,000 on that one um and largely because at that point it it'll be reaching um end of life and to upgrade and replace it um means we're putting back in some increased reliability and uh reduce time offline for repair and maintenance um because the turnaround time on the repair on these is not always immediate uh it could be out of rotation for a bit of time while we're getting parts or having it service so um FY 34 uh again this is more of a a placeholder by the time we're getting to FY 34 and 35 the age of the primary school and the Mechanicals on the roof will be reaching end of life um so we would need to do um an engineering assessment to get specs and estimates uh for that project followed by the actual replacement of those roof Mechanicals I'm putting in the $8 million price tag there based on the outrageous uh estimate that we got uh 2 years ago when we were looking to just add the um the condensers to the roof and they were telling us that it would be wise based on the age of the Mechanicals on the roof at that point to replace all of them um so whether that's a a postco really big jump and that's not an accurate reflection of what the cost might be if we were to you know get a cost estimate again today um maybe it'll be a little less than that but I I think we're still talking a few million dollars on that because it would be all the Mechanicals on the roof um at that point so there's a lot there um and lastly in the slide deck um you have a a couple of slides that sort of map out the long the long 10e look and what are the pink what is the pink highlighting the pink is really that's that sort of placeholder all of those projects used to be in previous 10-year Capital plans but once we know what's what with the engineering assessment of that building what's the actual cost not really sure are we really going to be able to take some of these projects as individual uh system upgrades is it really going to have to be more whole building renovation um we don't know so that's why I kind of just put that pink Zone there like there's more information coming and we'll have to make some decisions um but also uh to the point made that if these are not individual um system rep rep placements and depending on the system even a system replacement may fall outside the scope of a capital project and it might be more of a borrowing conversation that we're having around these these projects so that's why I kind of well borrowing is still be Capital Pro well that's a funding problem right but that's still funding unless it's unless it's an excluded de exclusion debt theoretically it should still be run through a capital plan right if it's an exclusion debt then it doesn't but so that's that's why that's sort of so the sums on that table do not appear to be accurate that's because I need to go back and update some of the the newer quotes that I've got on this these were the um this I'm just summing down fiscal 26 and it does not equal 290 I will uh I'll double check that I'll reach out to you Dr M to get all those updates particularly ones in the current Fisco cuz given what we're dealing with with clear go I think we're looking at a exercise in pure Excel this year okay based on what I currently know then I can get you the updated in an XL that you can take and manipulate okay um and the pink on the uh Turf and track replacement again that may be something outside of a capital project um and lastly there's just the slide um that uh rank orders on one page um all of the the projects for FY 26 so last year Mr he was like 2third of a way through a comprehensive assessment of all the buildings I guess two question is that finished and is that reflective in this 10year plan not fully reflective not fully finished but I think that um really the most important information that we're going to get for a comprehensive um look at what the the facility needs are big picture the biggest piece of that will come from this turkey Hills study okay I just recall that the list was quite long yep um and it didn't seem I don't remember at all but seemed like there was things that were just not in this there was well there was a long punch list of issues that have been punched and and they're outs they're inside of the $220,000 okay Zone and part of this if you recall during the discussion of the override last year was needing some elasticity to be able to deal with these things where we didn't previously have but this year we're still quite tight in that regard because were paying for the e911 system and a couple of other things but you know the the hope would be that we're budgeting in a way that can allow for that capacity for punch list items to be dealt with right through the operational budget through the operational budget yeah um a good a good example is the the elevator in the Middle High School you know which was unanticipated but upon further review probably was avoidable you know um had it been expected you know inspected and maintained in a way that right was on schedule because a lot of um we can have regular routine checkups if you will when you contract for that service so when you have a a contract with an elevator company they come out routinely and they'll do a quick inspection so that prior to the state inspection they can catch anything that that needs to be tweaked maintained um replaced what have you um which actually spending a little bit of money actually ends up potentially saving us in the end there are some other potential issues that you know frankly when we get a new facilities director in we're going to have to continue to look at the the entire HVAC system in the Middle High School is very problematic right now but I don't think anybody knows what the underlying issue is yeah and it's been problematic for years actually you know sooner or later we're gonna when when she said it's not complete it isn't complete like there's still some work to do there so what is the status of all the capital projects that were approved for the school I'm so last oh good I didn't even know that part of it good um the Turkey Hill window film is 98% complete we're waiting on replacement of some of the larger glass panes um because they were cracked um those have to be ordered for the size uh specific to the window um so those uh Replacements should be finalized this week if everything stays on track and um that's when we can call back the vendor to finish applying um those few panes of glass uh applied in the film so 98% complete at this point um the Turkey Hill exterior door uh Replacements um there was a meeting last week uh with the Architects for this particular project and um based on their estimates um the door the door replacement including the labor costs for actually doing the replacement of the door um they're estimating at this point will be uh a little over 150,000 um we also planned to build out a vestibule at the front entry they're estimating that the construction of the vestibule will be um just shy of another 82,000 so we're not going to have enough money with the monies that were allocated for this project to do all of the door replacement and the vestibule um what they're recommending is to move forward with the replacement of all the doors and potentially revisit the building of the vestibule as a separate um project once we have another cost estimate um on that how short are we I don't remember how much was budgeted I want to say it was 87,000 um so we're going to come up short maybe around 50,000 um I don't know that I can absorb that in this year's operating budget so stay tuned when will you know how much you're short um actually when we get an actual bid on the doors this is the architex estimate maybe maybe make it more plain a question will you know by the end of the year yes yep because this The Architects are ready to put this out to bid to the people who would actually do the doors these are all custom doors any aror money that we don't use we're looking for places to put it yes so if it's ready and you have it then so the um the town manager mentioned by the way because there's no one else here I the real we the town manager uh had indicated that he was looking for backups in case anything fell through anything that you know could be done or is under contract um but so we have a few things that we're trying to pull together for that this being one of them um the Turkey Hill fire alarm system is currently in process um Turkey Hill and primary school security um access projects um those are going to be out to bid by um Mid November um and we are anticipating that um the cost for those projects will fall within the allocated amount so we're we're not expecting any overage there what we're hearing from The Architects though is that um the groups that are going to come in and do this project um they are not going to want to work with us in an interrupted fashion they are going to want an uninterrupted 6 to 8 weeks to come in set their ladders up have wires hanging and not have to clean everything up close everything up so that we can go back to operating school the next day um so likely those projects will have to wait until sum are to be executed um that said our security systems currently are functioning so um that's not a a significant worry um the not that it's a capital project but again the phase two of the Mini Splits at the primary that's gone in as a um green uh community's Grant request and relative to the Turkey Hill Ada study um the bids were due in um October 16th at 2: p.m. we received seven bids for the project we started reviewing bids today um and we anticipate awarding um October 30th and which project is this again this is the turkey hill engineering assessment okay the whole building um the Middle High School turf field feasibility study that was arpa funded that's done um the primary school AC Mini Splits phase one this this actually goes back to FY 23 Capital but that is done so are for for the field turf field but Mr chair you said that that's not done because we couldn't answer but so so there there's an ongoing question about the drainage under the field itself so the the basically where that $50,000 I think it was 50,000 that was allocated through arpa that got us from the top of the hill to the to the surface there's additional work that is happening right now between the facilities director the outgoing facilities director and some uh potential contractors and drainage experts exactly what needs to be done to ensure that the work that's being done on the hill works with the drainage system under the field and then it's not overly clogged and yada yada yada there's I had a extended conversation with uh one of the folks who was involved in building of the the project back 20 years ago I think you were involved at the time as well um and we believe that there are some clogs still under that drainage system that still need to be dealt with um but exactly where they are and how to get to them I think still is part of this determination the other thing that that I believe to be true but still needs to be beted out a little bit is that the system that was put in place for for the replacement Turf that was done about 8 years ago is incompatible with the drainage system that is underneath it and that is actually the cause for the hydroplaning and all of that stuff that we're getting on the field itself so the issues on the hill and the issues on the field are not necessarily connected in fact they might not be connected at all and that's what we're trying to put a finger on right now um BAS basically long story short the the drainage under the field is a straight down like the water drains is intended and designed to drain straight through the turf into a catch Basin that takes it away when they replace the turf they put in a padding system that was not permeable and and interrupted the train system that that is the current theory um and there was not an adequate drainage system to compensate for that and that when you think about it and you watch which what has actually occurred during a driving rainstorm it makes complete sense um and so that may be the missing link to this yeah because my understanding is that we didn't have the problem on the initial right we didn't this is a relatively new phenomenon the last five or six years so consistently every year so and you know I mean part of it is when we built the field turf was new the technology has evolved a little bit along the way and now the question is is can we put something in in that is compatible with the drainage system that is safe and all that any further questions no thank you very much thank you all right thank you Dr bur thank you I'll be in touch just to validate some of those numbers all right thank you okay um minutes so over the course of um the late summer I had forwarded or uh Daniel Mah had actually forwarded to me and I forwarded to you two sets of minutes um that I then did not re forward via email um so what I have done pass is print these out and I would ask that you give these a read prior to when Wednesday night's meeting and we'll approve it on Wednesday we should have another set before Wednesday for our most recent meeting uh she reached out to me via email to see about meeting um how many people did you think were in this meeting I printed seven sets I don't know s more than they can't come yeah wait what's this there's another sorry your Pap oh oh all right that's why well now we see the Chris is to are are you trying to mask public discussion um so anyway so that's the deal with the minutes I don't see this as urgent if you guys could give this a read sure revisit them on Wednesday and hopefully we'll have another set reached out to me um because she wanted to attach the uh the presentation and get some additional details on the police presentation our last meeting so any I forwarded those to her and hopefully we'll get another set of minutes to approve and we'll have lots of minutes to approve at our next meeting um next item on the agenda is the capital planning uh excerpt from the now you can pass these are um from the uh proposed Financial policies manual um what I did was the only member to to send me a direct feedback was Mr Bowen uh on the financial policies and so I printed out and will forward you a soft copy of his notes if that's okay with you guys again I was careful not to violate open meeting law and send them in advance but you now have a printed copy of his inline edits and notes um which include references which is fantastic uh to actual bylaws and policies in some some cases quite surprising they just changed changed it y y and so um my understanding is that the intent of this document is to adopt this as new policy so we can come at this one of two ways number one is we can read through it and break it down live in a meeting tonight or Wednesday uh and I have posted this as a further discussion on Wednesday so we have the flexibility of not landing on it tonight um or um yall can read it and send me additional notes and then we can come up with a um sort of a ma Master uh list of Nots so if if if we were to adopt this there are some things in other documents that would have to be changed like for example and I'm forgetting now because it's been so long since it's do this but uh the charter has some things in it that are contrary to what this has so we'd have to amend the charter so my understanding is that this is not intended to violate any Charter uh so that if it does then I think we need to call that out and and stipulate where those issues exist my my understanding on this and this is a an interpretation from a very brief comment that Mr tanzini made um about a month ago on this is that this is intended to be a replacement for the policy MH so written its entirety it would become the policy but a policy cannot is my understanding cannot conflict with bylaws or Charter or mass law or mass law yeah okay so again only because words matter certainly a policy can conflict the point is that it can't override right the charter would would win right right when push game was shot and this is really intended to be how we do things so we would want to be a in my view we would want to be in compliance with the charter and bylaws now a bylaw is a lot easier to fix than the charter obviously I miss focused but it's just for example at the top of the third page here uh this this says that the responsibility of the capital planning committee with support from the finance director where where you waiting from what section oh I'm sorry I'm looking at my copy which might be different what section are you it's it's the section on Capital process component and it's the section I don't have letters Capital inventory okay B okay so B capital inventory okay so the text here says with support from the finance director and the finance director Town accountant The Bu laws actually say in conjunction with the town manager yeah so and there were just a few instances where they did things like that yeah and in my view I woulde prefer to have the most senior person responsible even if we're working with appointees under that person well the problem so I mean to in my mind and from my perspective the problem is that the document was the compilation into a single document was well intended okay but they provided back DLS Pride Prov it back to us a framework of something that I would believe they would have expected somebody in town to review to do what Mr Bowen has done I don't feel comfortable doing our section because there's lots as take off my CPC hat and think about the selectboard Hat there's all the other sections need to do that and they all need to be reconciled yes I I I think if you're going to do this you should probably hire somebody to do that well we need to or sign somebody but yeah we should do it holistically like a person or a couple of people should be assigned to do this instead of peac mealing it to different committees where everybody has a different perspective and some people have a greater depth into the town Charter and not and bylaws and not I mean so yeah we can't have things just be I mean I think somebody brought it up in this committee uh and I think other committees like the finance committee may have brought it up too it's like you know what do I know comes from where right right you you pulled the together and I think it sounds fine devoid of if there were no Charter and there were no anything this would be great this would be a great starting point but we do have all those things and we don't want to be self-contradictory that's going to make the matter worse not better so what I mean we have a member of the select board and member of the finance committee chairman of the finance committee here what do you guys think we should do with this in my mind I'm not I'm not I'm not voting to adopt this as a selectboard member anytime soon okay we got way more important things that we need to fix in town before I get to this fair enough I I'm responding you know chair to the request trying to move this thing I think I I think that should be our response our response should be that given the fact that there are and and we can present him with what Rob showed already that there are conflicting components in the policy versus bylaws and Charter and everything and until and we don't feel comfortable reconciling that and nor should it be our job to you know comb through with the fine tooth comb somebody else should be doing this because if it exists here and this is one of the shorter sections of the policy it certainly exists in other areas so it's good that we got the document back from DLS but it should not have been distributed to the Departments and everything it really should have G been gone through when it was identified that we need to know which component came from where and what section so cuz I'm not I think the policy the policy can replace an existing policy that's fine but if the policy contradicts bylaws in the charter this can't supersede that I don't think this actually contradicts it though because I think it just augments it I mean I think that in conjunction with the town manager is a good ad for consistency but the assistance to do this should I me that's come from the director in the town of to well it could could be because our bylaw was established at the time that we just had the town manager there wasn't a separate Finance director the town manager was was was the finance director where did did you say this was in the charter of this part bylaws oh it's in the bylaws but you didn't cite that one in the here cuz you have bylaws other places I oh maybe we're looking at the he does on the let me have let me have oh it's the top of the okay sorry up of the next page Yeah by it's bylaws number 12 section 18 okay it says in what I what to tell you what I did I lined I I struck the things in this document that were inconsistent with what was in another source and I printed what was in the other source with the citation to it so this policy here said Finance director Town accountant and so I struck that and I put in with the town manager because that's what the bylaw actually says gotcha so the upside of this document is that if you're a member of the capital planning committee and you want to know what the capital planning committee is supposed to do right you don't have to go chasing after four different documents to figure that out right theoretically this one document if adopted and and and better aligned would be a much better path you know to value for any member of any committee with oversight or responsibility of any of these things right right now there's no single source to go to right like I agree and and so I I certainly see the value of I said I said it's well intended I I don't disagree with that now whether the town wants to have Town Council review it all or well Town c yeah that Town Council would probably be wa it would be out of the scope of what we do with Town Council okay I would imagine and if they did it they would be expensive well I mean it would since we have since we we pay them retainer they don't pay them for General stuff but this is not General hey look at all our fiscal policies this would be certainly additional okay so could give it to your law students as a project Matt any thoughts on where you think where you think or what we think we should do with this I I want to you know kind of make get get all of our opinions out yeah no I'm I'm I mean yes exactly what everyone has said I share uh the concern about this isn't as much as this is our piece of a document it doesn't stand alone as part of a comprehensive package that should be treated as a comprehensive package and we it because we see evidence that there is a small but real amount of misalignment with the documents that are that govern it with bylaws with Charter but by the same token I agree that this having a it's not really a single source of truth but a compiled source of Truth is really useful on the other other hand because we're just going to keep spouting arms now um the thing that worries me is okay great we get it all in alignment we've got this now the town has a document that's aligned across the board and I see value in doing that except then by law I mean Charter less less frequently but that will change by law will change and will this be maintained well that's always the problem say the answer by the way is no and I I don't mean that as a that's not like a slash that's a problem with the way these government documents for towns are put together um so all that said Heck if I know what we should do okay all right the maintenance the fact that all of our governing documents Charter bylaw law policies procedures and all of that are living documents you are absolutely right it is NE mandatory that they get done and the fact that we don't have any oversight or any standing committee or or uh job uh job function that does it is problematic and I mean there's a solution for how you build the documents to be more accurate in the long term with changes the problem is that makes them inherently unreadable because we're dealing with that with all sorts of planning board uh when we're putting forward a bylaw on everything and we're really trying now to make bylaws that age well um and a lot of that is oh we're not going to Define X we're not going to Define Zone one around a well or something because that's defined by state law so we're going to going to say Zone one as defined by Mass General law right here we go um but that defeats the purpose of a document like this because then it's just a bibliography effectively no no it's not well it's not just a bibliography it's a hyperlink yes right the whole document is a hyperlink document which is a what it should be and if you had it in such a form that we had it in hyperlinks and it actually could click and you could go right there you would have it together the problem I think with this document while I again I I I applaud the intent is it doesn't want to site things it wants to reiterate re you know basically spit out what's over there and put it in here and that's problematic because now the wording is in two places instead of one place that's the and it's not the same wording several instances right that's what I mean the meaning was the same but for they just changed the words right and in law that may actually have be a problem it may it may cause a change in meaning that was totally unintended exactly so again maybe it may turn out to be that this is really a not achievable for any length of time I mean if you get all this done and you tightly do it and you cite everything and then you start changing bylaws if it's not useful in a year and a half or two years what was the point sure like I'm I'm trying to think of ways that you write it with in line Cit ations that clarified the the amount of info that would have to be in that inline citation to give you proper context to judge whether or not what you are currently the likelihood that what you are currently reading is fully accurate versus may have shifted MH I mean that's a lot of information to include but without that it's then becomes so let me offer let me offer just a a slightly different lens on this and then we can wrap up this discuss I'm perfectly fine with communicating back to the town manager and select and say one of our members did some work and here's what we found and you know this this is what the ramifications are right and I I think that I'd be happy to construct that communication what I'm also wondering is should we consider this an opportunity or not to look at this document and say Okay this may be what Mass state law says and it may be what the bylaw says and it may be what the existing policy says but it isn't the way we want to do it right like you know are are there things in here that need to be updated just because they're dumb or there's a better way to do it or something along those lines right um now this may not be the inflection point to do that maybe the right way to do it is through a policy change request or through a bylaw change but this could be vehicle potentially right so I I just want to raise that as a different lens to think of this I'm I have no specific suggestions at this point but I I'm throwing that out there also because the work was just done to generate a version of this that is now in alignment with current bylaws and Charter there's something to be said about this is the opportunity to look at it and say right I mean this talks about you know completing a 5year capital plan and you know uh aligning to you know both priorties for the current year reporting to the town manager uh reporting out you know anticipated projects over the next 5 years all of which is true but this also doesn't address the Gap that I've been trying to articulate around okay but there's a whole fiscal component here that that is completely unaddressed and it by the way it remains unaddressed in this document right like a plan as defined by this document does not actually include any fiscal analysis right so do we want to suggest that that be added or you know and again I'm not saying we should do it but is this an inflection point where we say this might not be the right way to do it in the first place and maybe you should consider doing it differently or you know I think we should do that I don't think we should do that until we done what what we're doing now yeah that's fair you mean this season you're talking about yeah yeah and I also think should take the lead from the um select board as to what they would actually do with any analysis we did on this cuz if we do all that and then it just never gets adopted anyways then we could have some of our evenings back for work that isn't going to M if work isn't going to matter that's true but I mean if the if the capital planning committee forly came to a resolution that we want the select board to change the fiscal policy that's outside of the school of what they were asked to hear yeah the problem is is this fundamentally says take all your other policies and adopt this almost and until you adopt this in its entirety we'd have to go back into 3.02 if that's where the board of selectman policy is and but the problem is this isn't a policy this problem is this this involves bylaws too and you can't do both policies are policies and bylaws are bylaws and that's important and if you're going to take everything and shush it together and you're going to reiterate the verbiage not not by reference but by actual inclusion of the text that is hugely problematic and it doesn't make things clearer which I think the intent of the document would be it makes things less clear and it makes them more more ambiguous and overlapping and then there's a mess may maybe there's a way to make a more General document that is just linked to the The Source well that's what I'm saying the hyperlinks absolutely that's the way that's the way the document of course should be okay all right if anybody else has any additional it's very clear what you want to respond yeah um I will say for finance committee there's a whole bunch of sections that we would have to review and I have no intention of putting on the agenda till sometime after down the8 I have no problem in taking up this banner and taking up this Banner with the select board and saying that first of all this should be punted for a while because we got a lot of bigger things going on in town yeah number one and number two is if we have to do it we should take what they gave us and align it in the fact of what is going to be the final document like what is the format of the final docum it's supposed to be so one other question not to beat a dead horse but I'm beating a dead horse uh the state somehow compiled this for us yeah it was a DLS uh you know offering of service so so in order to do that they must have looked at the underlying thing yes do they have a draft or an iteration or something that that is annotated or no no that's it no I think we asked that oh okay yeah they didn't have that and the way they did I mean I think there's some response that we have on an email from them I don't know maybe maybe the board got it I have to I I'll try to look for it and I'll if I have it from my select board email address I'll share it to everybody but in in so far is that well this is what we think the policy should be and we looked at what you had and we included that but we had where it was silent we put in some other things that we think are best practices and I'm like you know this was like just taking three pack of cards just shuffling together and put it together and say here we're done I'm like I I do think generally speaking this committee should be handed something like this and there's one document we learn how to on off of it would be awesome um if it did hyperlinks I think to Matt's point about keeping it up to date because we only have two times that they change a year the either the chart or a lot less but bylaws we have two meetings you could do it if you stayed up with it each time cuz not many bylaws change per town meeting right uh and policies presumably the policy is changed within the committee or commission or or board itself so they could do them then and even then it doesn't change all that often but people have to put in the effort to do it okay I'm declaring the horse did for now okay good that doesn't mean we can't still eat it but it's uh I will uh put together a communication for copy and this and probably not discuss it on done what we need to discuss tonight but is there anything that this board wants me to bring to the select board tomorrow I think you can easily or you know suisee the conversation that we just had and the Dilemma that we're in okay I I think that that's fair okay yeah and I assume you don't mean surmise you meant summarize that's right okay yeah you can surise it uh okay um review schedule topics for further meetings so uh on Wednesday we are going to meet with uh facilities director and on November 4th we are going to meet with the DPW and the fire chief uh and that is as far out as we are currently scheduled so where are we with the it that was supposed to present to us last week do we have nobody's responding to you that is where we are who oversees it Town manager okay um I got a text from Carter about half an hour before this meeting saying that he had put in a request last Thursday um he was due to meet with them tomorrow morning and he would advise me following that me so we have no resolution on that um so I will let you know what I know and I will uh circulate some dates for later in November and early December or per I so good um is there any public comment before we adjourn there's one telephone on the call give them a moment if they wish to speak hello caller reminds me of my uh my recent radio show uh it's not Bruce any uh public comment from the committee none hearing none is there a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second all those in favor I I I we are Jed great everyone