Um it was it was around 4 1/2%. So uh I contacted Hurland >> just to clarify everything. Since Sophia left, she hadn't done the update. So it was kind of in limbo between. So I sent Herland today the revised plan and it
still keeps us it's it was a very minor a few hundred square foot difference with uh with this lot line moving. Uh the lot line previously on our plan started at this point straight up to the lot line. So there's about a 10-ft swath of land there that um after the fact
with the surveyor he was able to rectify. Um so what it did was it took some of the riverfront area off the property but it didn't impact our numbers because this area here the majority more than half of it is outside of the 200t riverfront. So there was only a little
tiny square right here, rectangle that was within the riverfront area. Again, it only equated to a few hundred square feet. So she has the updated, she has verified there's no new meetings needs to be done. She's just going to swap that one plan and give it to us to
record in the order. So um we stay at that 4 and a.5%. There's no change in the numbers that would put us out of compliance with the Wetland Protection Act. Um so it's all done administratively. It's not something that needs an approval or to go back to conservation with.
Um and then um I believe Adam you had asked about the impacts within the no disturb zone uh and what the mitigation was for it. Um so as part of the order of conditions
we have a planting plan for both the rain garden which is quantified in our filing with the planning board. So our details on for the rain garden include
um 15 total plantings between trees and shrubs. Um so that's all within the rain garden. the impact within the no touch because of our wetland fill that we have here is a little over 3,000 square feet at a 2:1 ratio that we're replicating
and in total there's 56 plantings that's being done within that replication area. So that was what was required by conservation and that's what's on our plans that was approved by conservation in memorializing the order of conditions. So those 56 plantings
are a combination of high bush blueberry, elderberry, and great dogwood trees. There's 14 trees and then um 18 elderberry and 24 high bush blueberry that are all being planted within that replication area which is which is back
here on the uh kind of on the outskirts of our limited disturbance. So um and then I believe there was one more point or Couple points of discussion in relation to the the pipes that we're extending from the neighbor's property.
Um, I want to be crystal clear about where those pipes are. I believe Patrick said that Mr. Patton thought we were going to be 20 30 feet on his property doing work. We're the the survey originally didn't locate the inverts of where those
pipes discharged. um they are entirely on the property we're in. So they're on the applicant's property. They're not on Mr. Patton's property. So we do not have to touch Mr. Patton's property at all. Uh so we have
he has a foundation drain that goes right outside his it looks like it's coming from right outside his garage that ends right here on our property. So we're proposing to pick that up. It's a 4-in foundation drain. So, we're going to connect to that with a watertight
connection ads pipe and continue that pipe across our driveway and discharge it at a flared end. So, there's no change to this plan or the plan of conservation. We always showed that scope. So, that plan that pipe is going to be extended that 20 30 ft to the
other side of our driveway. The other discharge is a catch basin in the back side of his property that was installed, you know, at some time in the past. It's a 5 in HTPE pipe that also terminates
back here, which is actually underneath where our proposed driveway is going. So, we're just proposing to pick up that same pipe at the same invert and have positive drainage, keep the same slope, you know, the extra 10, 20 ft to the other side of our driveway. And that's the second flared end that's shown. So,
this plan is exactly what was filed last. Um, we are filed with this filing here in September. Originally last year, we didn't have cuz we weren't surveying off property. So, I didn't have the actual location of where we thought that
pipe was. It was on our property, but the invert was buried. So, Mr. Patton actually hired the same surveyor to go out and rectify the lot line. So, in doing so, he was able to dig up and locate these two pipe discharges. So, so both of those pipes are going to be just extended from where they are across our
driveway and discharged to the the same receiving water. Um, we had proposed HDPE pipe. Uh, we did download and submitted to the open gov today the HDP pipe spec for um the
ADSN12 pipe. It's it's a structurally sound pipe uh with a foot of cover. withstands the HS2020 loading and and whatever the new the new Astto loading is. It's the maximum loading for uh you know tractor trailer trucks and highway loading on
active vehicles on highways. So both of these pipes the pipe the culverts up here that come uh on the the western most side of the property those have a footer cover and that's the minimum cover that ads allows for the HS loading. So it's the it's a full full
loading tractor to trailer truck traffic. This is a residential driveway, so it's not going to see anything anywhere near the tractor trailer truck loading. Uh, and then the other the other pipes are the same, but those have more than a foot of cover on them where they are. So, cover-wise, I did provide
the spec, it was uploaded today that shows that it exceeds um, you know, in strength uh, what's required under highways. So, um, so beyond that, I'm not sure if there's anything else that you have
questions that I can try to answer. >> Is the order recorded? >> The order has not been recorded. >> Has the order been submitted to the applicant? >> The applicant, we have the order. So, >> okay. Because that was one of the things that I asked to be uploaded at the last meeting because
>> understood. We didn't have we don't have the updated one. So, >> okay. So you have >> the history of this was after it was approved >> back in the beginning of the year there was >> you know Sophia was out for a long time. >> It took months of trying to get it back and forth to her. >> When she finally did I think she was
working remotely. We sent her the updated information but it was it was never sent updated and it was never recorded. So we kind of stopped because of the denial last year. We didn't move forward with everything. We wanted to get all our permits in hand before we started recording legal documents for
the project. So, Herurland today said she was going to revise revise basically the copy, insert that corrected page. She has the corrected drainage analysis now that I forwarded her. So, she said she would put a note
and she was going to note on open gov. Not sure if anything did, but she would let you know that no formal meetings had to be done uh for approval kind of at this at this stage of the game. If there's anything happens and we have to come back and change stuff, then
it's a modification to a plan. We'd have to come back to both you and conservation for approval. If we do have a modification for any reason, but you know, as it stands now, it's nothing changed in the scope of the order of conditions that would require us to go
back to conservation for approval. >> And with the driveway sliding, are you still meeting the 5'7? >> We didn't move anything. >> I'm not the driveway, the lot line. Is the driveway still meeting 5T at the whole sideline? >> It I mean I don't have my scale on me right now, but we're It looks like we're
basically at that 5 foot. And if for any reason we had to slide that over a foot, we've got plenty of room in here to do it. >> And we initially did our driveway was about 10 ft closer to the to Mr. Patton's property and through
working with him last year we agreed to move it to the extent we had done. Um but you know if we have to shift it another foot or two we have more than enough >> and >> without without changing any replication numbers without changing any wetland impact numbers um it can easily be moved
at that corner. At the last meeting, it was represented that one of the pipes under the driveway was schedule 80 PVC and the other two were HDPE. And so it was the schedule 80 that I asked for information on.
All I know all we stated here was PVC. So extend existing 4in PVC foundation drain. So I would we you can connect they have couplings for the HTTP pipe. >> Okay. >> So
>> and that was my I felt HTPE was a better choice. Yes, absolutely. >> It was >> it was indicated that I may not be correct in that. So I just wanted a a clarification on what the intent is. >> The intent here is to extend both of those pipes. Okay.
>> And we are we are more than happy to use the HTP pipe for that and that can certainly be a condition. Okay. In the literature I did upload today, it's that same N12 pipe is 4 inch through I think 4 inch through 48 inch pipe as a minimum 1 foot of cover to
withstand that HS loading >> and then above that 48 in and above to 72 and whatever you're required to have more I think 2 ft of cover or something but we're talking about 4 in to 12 in pipe. >> This is for this pipe here that comes from the backyard. The inverts were shot
top of pipe to invert. It's a 5-in pipe, so it's a little odd. So, it might still be a 4 in, which is the thickness of the walls. So, likely these are both 4-in pipes. And then we're proposing new 12-in pipes at the upper crossing. All right. Well, looks like the board is thinking for a minute. I'm also going to
Excuse me. Um, this is a public hearing. So, do we have any uh comments or questions from the public? If you are online and wish to comment, go ahead and use the hand raise feature. Um, I see nothing in the room. If that
comes up, just let me know. All right. Other questions, thoughts from the board? Okay, seeing none, um, Adam, I'll turn to you on this. You had
the most and the outstanding questions. So, do you feel that you've received answers that are satisfactory? Is there more we're that you're looking for or that you feel the board should be asking here? >> Uh, I think the majority of my questions were answered. I'd really would have
preferred to have seen the order. Um, just forformational. I think it makes a complete record if if there's an existing approval that we're approving the same plans of that we have that information to make it
uh make sure we're not conflicting or contradicting what they're they're putting forward. Uh but we're we're where we are. >> Okay. All right. um
continues to be nothing from the uh from not from the from the public. Not surprising. Um is there anything else you want to share with us? >> No, I think you know I just want to I'll reiterate again this is the same plan that was approved by conservation. The
only difference was we didn't have the actual location of these two pipes that were extending under the driveway, but the same scope was included on the plan. >> And um with apologies to the board that I got to it today, but I did upload all
of the the peer review and back and forth from the previous project as well. And that's also on open gov. Um, all right. If we have no other questions, are we do
we want to close the public hearing and deliberate? I'm fine for us to chat before then um if we think something else may come up, >> but Okay. >> No, I'll make a motion we close the hearing. >> Second. moved and seconded. All in
favor? >> I >> I >> Okay, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um, so now Tim, you're welcome to deliberate on this. Yeah. >> You were not here for the last meeting.
I don't know if you've reviewed it and I didn't think to bring a Mullen Mullen form. >> I had not before this. >> Okay. So, you're welcome. You you are still welcome to deliberate, but um in in the end, you will not be able to cast a vote on this one. So, just >> perfect.
One second. I apologize. Excuse me. Okay. Um thoughts, question, not questions, but thoughts from the board. I mean, our the previous peer review was comfy
with this plan as is, and nothing from that that I could see is changed from what's been discussed here. >> Mhm. >> Um, yeah. I mean, it's not a great lot. It's
kind of in the swamp, kind of difficult to work with. Um, they've met the standards per Graves. I, you know, I'm not going to argue that. I'm not going to I I don't again, not a lot I would want
to buy. Um, but if someone wants to develop it and buy it and they've met the standards, I'm okay with that. I think that we need to list the inspections we intend to be done as part of the storm water um
permit. Um, I would put forward that we do a pre-cut sitewalk to understand what the limit of work is and what material is being removed. If I'm not mistaken, the site's fairly wooded currently. So,
before any erosion control goes in, there's probably going to need to be some cutting or else they're going to put the erosion control in twice, which seems foolish. Mhm. >> Um, so I would say pre a pre-cut sitewalk, an erosion control and
sedimentation sitewalk when it's installed and secure. Uh, a storm water facilities inspection when they do the bottom. They're putting in uh, if I'm not mistaken, a rain garden and a an infiltration. So bottom of both of those
would need to be inspected to make sure they're appropriate. Uh, and then we would need them to submit, it wouldn't necessarily be an inspection, but a submission of all material spec sheets for the material that goes into the rain
garden. Um, there's a specialized mix. It's intended to support the plants and drain the water. Uh, and then obviously there'd be a final inspection. And this would all be done, in my opinion, by Graves uh as part of the the contract we
have with them to to do peer review. >> All right. Is this um I so I trust your judgment here. This is my trying to me trying to understand >> um is how much of does this differ from our usual >> it's been so long I don't recall what
the standard is and I don't know that the standard calls out inspections >> like I know they happen but I don't know the details on that either. >> Correct. So that's >> okay. Yeah. No, that makes sense. And
>> and really, we should be doing most of these inspections on most storm water permits. So, if they're not in the standard, maybe we should consider revising the standard. >> Uh, full agreement from me on that as we
figure it out. Other thoughts from the board? Adam, do you have those written down as a convenient motion? >> Uh, >> because I was taking notes as you went and I'm not I am not a very fast typist.
>> I can I can put it into a motion. Um, yeah. Uh so I move that we approve the storm water permit for uh PBSP 257 255 Sunny Hill Road including all standard storm water
conditions and the additional condition that inspections be conducted at the pre-tree removal uh the erosion and sedimentation control installation phase. the bottom inspections for all storm
water facilities, including cut sheets of me media to be submitted for the rain garden and a final inspection. >> PBSW254 >> 254. I'm sorry. >> That's fine. >> I amend my motion. >> Okay, >> I will second.
>> Moved and seconded. All right, any further discussion? >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> All right, >> thank you. >> You're all set. Thank you very much. Rock and roll everybody. One public
hearing down, one to go. Call up my agenda. Next, we have um a public hearing for 560 Mulpus Road. This is a special permit open reference uh PBSP 257
for Ground Mount Solar. Is there an ad for this one >> there? >> Cuz it's not an open dove. >> It's not an open dove. >> Usually it's in the attachments. >> I look. >> Let's take a >> I don't know if it's wound up in the
Let's look at that. Give us one sec. We have to open the public hearing with specific No, you can stay there. It doesn't matter. Just We have to open the public hearing with specific language that we're now looking up. >> First time doing this. You can get it if you go to the
workflow. >> Where's the workflow? >> Oh. Oh, you're not logged in. You're >> Yeah, I'm logged in. >> Oh. Huh. Do I have a different account? >> You probably do. >> Why?
What? Uh, which one are we? We're We're looking at PBS. >> Do you want me to read it since I have it? >> You can or you can give me your laptop and I'll read it. Whichever you prefer. >> Actually, this isn't it either. This is H. >> Part of me thinks I should just bring my
copy of the ledger with me. That would make it easy, too, right? Like just brought the ledger. >> Keep keep the past couple issues in my backpack. No, Adam, you do have the file handy. >> No, I I thought this was it, but it isn't. Um,
now let me Okay, I can go into So, I assume we do definitely need that exact wording. >> We should read the public hearing.
That's the the easiest way to do it. >> Do you have access? Um I ha I have more access than the rest of the board. Um because I have uh yeah because because I I have more tools
here. Um let me just search for the problem is I don't know how this got posted. Um well let's try
the address is five I can never remember. All right I may have it here. Get this folder is empty. That's less helpful. Let me look here. I think I have it. Um, booya.
>> All right. If you want to come here and steal my microphone. >> Sure can. >> Oops. >> I don't know what that was. That was me. >> We can zoom in or anything if you want. >> This is fine. Uh, the Lunberg Planning
Board will hold a public hearing on Monday, November 10th, 2025 at 6:05 p.m. Town Hall 17 Main Street, Lunenberg, Mass to hear and review an application for special permit pursuant to 2550-4.13
of the code of the town of Lunberg by team Sunshine Construction LLC. Subject property information. The location is 560 Mulpus Road in Lunenburgg, Mass. Assessor's map, parcel number 162-65.
Owner is Claire Ryan, 560 Malpus Road, Lunenberg Mass 01462. Materials are viewable at the planning office at 960 Mass Avenue in Lunberg. >> Great. Thank you.
Um, I'm going to add as we begin uh to my notes uh to bring up with Brian that we should find a way for that legal ad to get added to OpenGV as part of standard practice. Perfect. Now, please take it away. All right.
Well, um we're just looking to install a solar ground mounted array um for this homeowner. We've already gone through um is it RDA and uh the conservation hearings. These plans that you have in
front of you have already been approved by both of those boards and uh this is the last hurdle. So uh we're just curious on uh what questions we need to answer uh to make sure we can get this going before uh we run into the new year and lose the uh federal incentives
behind this. >> Great. Could you also uh just for the record identify yourself and >> so uh Evan St. Thomas Datilio uh managed the pipeline over at uh team sunshine. So >> perfect. Thank you.
Okay. um if you could give us a now we have the plans on file and um I can also if there's anything we want to call out in particular I can always share on Zoom as well >> um to the rest of the board. >> Yeah, send some art plans in but I don't
know where those ended up. >> Oh um >> maybe >> Yep. This is it. >> Yeah. No, I don't. We have the big plans. I don't know that we have an easy way of mounting them because we don't have a foam board backer.
>> Let me see if there's magnets over here. >> Sorry to be causing trouble. >> How do they work? >> Stress. Um, >> actually, that easel might even I don't know if it has a way to slip a plan in or not either. >> I believe there's 18 copies. So, if
you're okay with sacrificing one, we could just punch it through those holes there. >> Yeah. Um, just that way people at home can see the plan too as you talk. Now, I can also share it. Like I said, I can share it on Zoom but
Oh boy. >> That big one. >> Yeah. I have magnets. >> I have a bunch of mag. >> Yeah, >> I don't know. I can just I can share it on Zoom. We
don't need to. >> Perfect. >> Let me Okay. So, give me one second. I'm just gonna >> Does anybody want a paper block? >> No, >> I'm good.
>> I am good. And I will be I can do this. >> Great. And so you can just walk walk us through the project at a high level so we have that understanding. >> Sure. >> Would be great. and anywhere you want me
to go on the on the uh I don't know if it's show >> yeah um if you want to go to the second page of the the CAD plans um that's going to give us a pretty uh good idea about um distances from plot lines um
and the location you know compared to other structures on the property um whatever might be a concern uh as as far as that nature and also the location of the septic system showing that we're much out of the way of that. No, no need to worry about that. And uh how we have
the proper clearances. So all right, perfect. So um if you want to just uh zoom in on that bottom right picture where we have like that circled area, you'll see that the uh ground mount is going to be placed roughly 142 ft um
north of the home on this property. And uh where you're going to find the setbacks are we're uh 112 feet roughly from the um eastern property line. Um and then 56 ft
or that 58 58 ft uh from the northern property line and uh just about 290 ft from the western um property line. So, uh, we're m, you know, keeping this, uh, location
well within, uh, the property itself. Uh, and then as far as the trenching, uh, goes, uh, this particular house, utility meter is actually not on the structure itself. Um, and if you look into, um, this squared area, um, to the
left of that circled area, we kind of have a little bit more of a zoom in and we show the location of where the utility meter is. So, um, for this array, all the equipment is going to be mounted on the array. And then the
trench, we're just going to go around behind the barn. And then, uh, just, uh, link up the solar, uh, directly to the utility meter, uh, on the, uh, load side. Uh, so that way we are able to power the house and any excess would be
sent to the grid for that net metering purposes. Uh, so trenching, we're going to follow code. uh keep it at a minimum of 18 ft deep and uh use a schedule 40 PVC. Okay, great. Um I'm going to go for I'm
going to go for initial questions for the board, then I'll ask public comment. I'm not anticipating public comment, but we'll see. And or at least not much because there's not a lot of humans between here and Zoom. And um
yeah, initial questions from the board. >> Do we have a copy of the special permit that was issued by the zoning board? >> Um the I'm not sure where those copies are issued. I just know that we had gone through uh those two previous meetings
and the believe the zoning board was the the first meeting we had to go through and then the conservation was the one where we were allowed to do virtual um and we had to get through those hurdles in order to move on to the next. So I believe they're on file somewhere but I
don't have a copy on on hand now. >> And this is going to be connected to the grid via interconnection. >> Yep. Inter copy of the interconnection agreements with UNIL. Um, so the interconnection approvals, I do have files of those, so I could get those sent over to you guys. >> We will need them as part of the filing
requirements. >> Okay, that's not a problem. We already have the uh the approval. Um, and as you see, if you want to go back to the first page on interconnection approvals, they um reflect the AC system size, not the
DC system size. And the AC system size is reflected by the size of the inverter on the system. So that would be instead of the 18.92 kowatt DC you see it would be the 13.8 kowatt AC and that's what you'll see the
interconnection approval for. >> Uh and what's the intended um reclamation between the racks? >> I'm sorry. >> Uh look what's I'm assuming you how are you attaching the racks first of all I guess is the first question. >> Um so we are going to do uh footings.
>> So you're going to pour footings. >> Uh yes. So, let me uh I'm sorry. Ground screws. >> So, the ground anchors. >> Um yeah, there I want to say if you go to Oh, the pages aren't numbered here. Um we have uh it looks like
the anchors are posting concrete or balance ground. Nope, that's not the one I'm looking for. There we go. Our third um third design is the ground screw uh where it shows the uh insertion type. So, uh, if you go to page I want to say
six of eight, >> six, I think. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh, you'll you'll see that information where, uh, we we show the ground screws and, uh, the details of the the array itself.
>> Um, Adam, the ZBA decision is in the red folder. >> So, I can I can handle >> I got you. Okay. Brian loves his red folders, huh? >> They have a grid inside and everything
that they didn't make any conditions. Okay, thank you. Um, so will there be disturbance between the racks or are you just screwing into the ground leaving the existing condition to exist?
>> Correct. Yeah. So the only disturbance is where the ground screws are going and then the trench line uh to wire it. >> So it's currently grass there. >> Uh yeah, it's a field there currently. >> And they're able to mow in between the the racks without an issue. >> Yep. Yep. And then if you guys are
requiring fencing, which some towns that we deal with do require fencing around the array, you know, that is something that we'll, you know, we'll put together as a, you know, requirement, but uh we've asked and we, you know, haven't gotten a hard answer like, well, it's
just a lot of unsure. So, yeah. So, the quick backstory for you is um the board has been wanting to work on our on our solar bylaw for a couple years because
>> I mean it this is a 11ish year old bylaw and was written for the technology of 11 years ago which is why >> um the whatever it is the 10 kilowatt or whatever the >> Yeah, it it seems that like the the hurdles that we've had to clear here to
get to this point uh have been for like a more commercially sized project. Um which, you know, we understand uh you know, a lot of towns, you know, are used to dealing with that, especially from like 10 years ago where it seemed like cuz I'm I'm from Ashham and like we know
how everything went through Winston and Gardener and all those areas and even just over in Lemonster. So, uh we we know how they kind of went crazy with those and a lot of bylaws went into place. So, we totally understand. to we're just trying to make sure that this person can, you know, save the money on
their bills. It's a significantly large system, but uh they got some large bills and we're just trying to help them out. >> Mhm. Nope. Makes sense. But that that is something the board is looking to look is looking to address in the I mean, ideally we were addressing it over a
year ago, but >> it's all right. >> When we're able, >> life happens. >> Um all right. Looks like board is reading for a minute. So I'll take that moment to ask for public comment. There is no one in
Zoom. Do we have public comment here? Nope. All right. I've done my duty and asked for the public comment that is not here but >> hearing >> is now officially a public hearing. further questions or comments from the
board? Nope. Um, is there anything else we feel we need from the applicant or does this feel completed this time for us? Oh, I wait. I do want to looking at open gov
and um I I see that you uh board of health was waiting on the um on the plans having the septic
setback and everything. >> The septic setback. Yes. And I see on November 5th the communication was it's been uploaded. Um >> yes >> and we have and the board of health hasn't verified that yet. So we're still waiting on that checkbox from board of
health >> I believe. But >> all right. >> Um I think we can condition that. Yeah, that was >> based on the location of the septic system. It's it's not even proximal to the work being done.
>> Perfect. >> No, I I don't think that will be an issue at all. I just was I was going through and seeing what is still blue and in progress. Um all right.
If we have um if we have no questions for the applicant, we could close the public hearing if we feel we have everything we need. >> I move we close the public hearing. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. All in favor? >> I.
>> I. >> Great. Now we're going to do a little deliberation, but you can sit down and relax. >> All right. Perfect. >> Okay, great. Do you want me to move these plants here or? >> Uh, you can just leave them there. We'll
we'll pick up. That's fine. Thank you. Okay. Other Oh, I don't remember this one. I know we just did it, but I've only done one of them, and it was a few weeks ago. Um, >> remember what? What
>> the special permit? Oh, >> solar. Um, do we approve with is do we have I don't think we have standard conditions. >> We we probably have standard special permit conditions. >> Okay.
>> Um, I mean this is kind of a I don't want to call it a nothing burger, but it's a little bit different than some of our other special permits. >> Oh, very much so. Um,
do we want to uh I think we should condition um they comply with the requirements of all other boards and commissions as we normally do. >> Mhm. um that
if there are any changes required per the board of health based on the septic system that the applicant returned to this board for modification. Uh and then that the interconnection information be uploaded before the
issuance of a building permit. >> All right. And you're think and it sounds like we're thinking just those three, not or do we do we doing this quote the special permit standard conditions? I don't >> I mean we can put them on there and
>> I don't Yeah, >> I I would be willing to give you discretion to take off anything that didn't seem to be applicable. >> I'm fine with that. That'll be a quick look and I can work with Richard Harris on that as well because
>> um the last question would be fencing whether we want to require fencing around the array or not. >> We don't require it by the bylaw, do we? >> I don't think so. >> No, I don't think it does. I think that
the last one we approved had fencing, but I don't think that we imposed that. I think they came in >> with it. >> That sounds correct. And I >> I also think they had animals. >> Yes. >> And that may have had something to do with it.
>> No, I mean, if we're not requiring it, I don't owner beware. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Okay. Super. >> Great. So, >> so I make a motion that we approve
PBSP257 at 560 Mulpus Road with the standard special permit conditions to be modified uh to remove any not applicable to the solar development and to add the conditions that should the board of
health require modification that substantially alters the location, size, or orientation of the solar panels that the applicant return to the planning board for modification
and that the interconnection approval between the owner of 560 Mulpus Road and Unatil be uploaded before the issuance of a building permit. >> I will second. >> Moved and seconded. All in favor? I
>> I >> bang a rang. All set. Um Richard Harris, our interim land use director, will get working on the decision and you're good. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you.
>> Okay, great. I find it hilarious, Adam, that I like pride myself on thinking through emotions, except when you're here, I immediately become an idiot. Yes. Become an idiot, not live the life. I We'll go for that. Okay.
Next up, well, we're done with public hearings. We're on to board discussions with the Open Space Committee. Mike, come on up and join us. If you'd rather sit, we have a remote microphone as well if you want. >> Thanks.
>> Oh, okay. Well, congratulations on the new hip. I'm in line for uh a new knee. So, >> it's behaving. So, >> I'm Mike Tuhill. I'm the chair of the Lunberg Open Space Committee. And as you know, we are an ad hoc committee of the planning board. And I want to talk to
you about a couple things tonight. First is um we're proposing to change our membership on the committee and add someone from the agricultural commission. Um it is a significant open space and we have parks, we have
conservation, we have planning. So we have representation from all the relevant boards um except for agriculture. And so what I what we are proposing is to um eliminate one of the um community member positions to keep us
as a seven member uh commission and then add agriculture. Right now we have an open seat. So it's no heartache to to remove the one open seat and add the agricultural commission. I wanted to talk to the planning board first since we
technically report to you as an ad hoc committee before uh approaching this with the agricultural commission. I I mean to me sure that makes given that a given that agriculture was one of the identified uses for open space.
Yeah. I mean to me that makes sense. >> Yeah. And it's come up a number of times when we're talking about right at first refusal >> and Yeah. >> So it'd be nice to have that representation on the board rather than communication between the two chairs and then going back to each board to talk
about what we talked about. >> Right. Other thoughts from the board? >> I think it makes perfect sense. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay, >> great. >> So, we'll affect that change. >> Well, I guess one question is, is it a member of the agricultural commission or
is it someone appointed by the agricultural commission? And I know it sounds like a dumb distinction. >> Well, that could be up to them, I guess. Well typically >> no it can't be >> because if the planning boards and I know that's probably the next discussion
but whomever is the seating authority for the open space committee to exist >> that's you >> oh I know it's us now um we would need to write the compromise the the the compro complement
of the membership in a way that reads needs who it is. >> Right? >> So, I'm not there are sometimes where a committee I would want a member of that committee to
be the representative because the committee that they're going to capital planning is probably one that comes to mind. You want a member of the finance committee or a member of the planning board because they're an elected or appointed representative that
is in the throws of the work that that committee does. Something like this, I think a representative appointed by the agricultural commission has the potential to have the same sort of
insight. But I don't know what the open space committee wants from it. Do you want someone who's steeped in the month-to-month work of the agricultural commission or do you just want somebody who has an agricultural mind and looks at things from that perspective?
>> I think we want the former. Okay. >> I think we want someone >> a member of the actual >> and just for the purpose of parallel construction. That's the way we have it with with recreation. That's the way we have it with planning. That's the way we have it with conservation. >> And that's absolutely fine. That's why I asked. Yeah. And I and every month we
have on an agenda item is reports from these other committees so that it helps inform >> both sides. >> Okay. >> So I think that's a good point. >> Yeah. >> Makes total sense. Um
so that would be I mean so that is a so to change that we would have to vote to change that. >> Correct. >> And then we can tell the town clerk and hooray. Um, well, might as well get is your next
topic. >> Let's talk about the second one. >> Yeah. See, except that I don't know you could. So, well, we can have this vote in a bit if we need to. What I don't know is if your next topic impacts it in terms or if you still need us to have that vote just to get that ball rolling
cuz I don't know if the um if the playing board were to go with be free, be your own thing. I I don't know what the timeline that looks like, but I bet you do. >> So my thought on this is and the the subject is we're an ad hoc committee of
the planning board right now. So, we were created for a purpose and the original purpose was to put the put together the open space and recreation plan. And so, now we've gone beyond that and we have other purposes. And so, we've been having a discussion among our members as to whether or not it doesn't
make sense for us to be, I'll use air quotes, independent. And um I've looked at how other towns deal with this. And I think I really like and I'll talk to my board about this. I really like the way Medway deals with this. Um, in Medway,
the open space committee is a separate standalone committee. Same way that planning, conservation, and the other boards are. Um, and in Medway, the open space committee members are still appointed by the planning board. Someone has to appoint the members because we're not I'm not proposing that we become an
elected board. Um, we we want to remain an appointed board the way the conservation is, for example. And so I would like to keep the planning board as the appointing authority for the members of the open space committee, but have
the open space committee be um eligible for having uh its own mission statement and having its own bylaws. And we bring this up now because as you know, we're in the process of the town is in the process of updating bylaws. Right now
there's nothing in the bylaws about open space committee. And so I propose drafting a very simple based on the midway example bylaw to bring to the bylaw committee. Um and and that bylaw would say basically we're a seven member
board. We have this constituency and it is and members are appointed by the planning board and the primary purpose of our board is the open space recreation plan. But we also weigh in on things like right of first refusal and inform and and make recommendations to
the select board and to the planning board. >> All right. Thoughts from the board? >> Spread your wings and fly little bird. Yeah, I I honestly I think it's probably
about 15 years past when that should have happened. Um I don't see any reason why we would oppose that. Um my only thought is and I don't I'm not opposed to the planning board remaining the
appointing authority. Um >> just I would have a discussion with the select board. >> Yes. as they tend to appoint most other committees in town. Um, but this is an elected board, so I don't think that we it would be out of place here.
>> Yeah. Point taken. >> So, yeah. >> Yeah. Other thoughts from the board? >> Nothing to add to that. >> No. And pretty much I mean, same boat here. >> Okay. >> It it it makes sense. you operate
pretty close to entirely independently of us anyway. So, yeah, let's No, that makes sense. >> So, I had an additional thought. >> Go ahead. >> You currently have two at large members and five members from other committees.
>> Uh, three and four. >> Oh, three and four. Okay. >> Yeah. Uh so I guess my and and I think it it's done this way already but my thought would be when you write the bylaw the committees appoint their own member
>> to and then the planning board would appoint obviously its member and then the at large or the select board the atlarge whoever >> the way the way I envisioned it is the committee the other boards committees will nominate um the representative to go on to the open space committee and then whoever
the approving authority is, if it's this board or if it's the select board, actually appoints that person. >> And I think that can work. I think that that's completely reasonable. Um, just I I would hate to see a situation where
a committee appoints somebody and for whatever reason the appointing committee doesn't agree with it. >> Yeah. or there's some personality conflict or perspective difference and the
appointing committee chooses to not endorse them. >> I have personal experience in that. >> Um and I you know I think if a committee's if a committee is intended to be represented they should get to choose their representative unfettered in my opinion.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I think I'm about 90% in agreement. I can envision a I can envision a world and I don't know that that's the I I don't think that's the scenario here
where I can envision a world where the open space could say no we want planning to have that like that kind of extra guardianship rule but that >> then you're just at the mercy of future
iterations of the planning board >> and um while I think our current Iteration is fairly hot stuff. Um, who knows what the future holds. Maybe all of us can defect to the select board at once. >> Go join Glenn
>> Chaos. >> Um, no. Great. Uh I mean you have thoughts from us and so the process now would be that you would go to the bylaw committee and handle all that over there and it would
eventually get on the probably the spring town meeting warrant. Is that the idea? >> Yeah. >> So it sounds like a you probably you don't need any formal input from us other than good job go for it and we can have a vote to that end. So, it's an
official good job. Go for it. Um, and B, it sounds like you would like us to approve the membership change tonight anyway. >> That way. Okay, great. >> In that case, I would look for a motion
such as to uh change the membership of the open space committee from Wait, let me pause on that. Do you know that conservation wants not conser that adcom wants a slot? >> No, I wanted I wanted to talk to our
>> Got it. So Mike, talk to them. >> They don't get a chance. They don't get a vote. >> I mean, I'm fine with that, too. I I'm fine just saying, "Guess what? You have a member now. Would you like us just to make it official or do you want to talk to them first? You can drop me an email and we can have a vote."
>> Yeah, I can talk to them first. Actually, I'm going to talk to the town manager and maybe town council too about >> sure all the great once you once you're squared away, drop me an email and then we can have a vote here. Um, I would also look for a motion such as I don't
know what the rec correct wording is, but for the plane board to endorse the um open space committee's plan for independence or desire for you don't like that motion. I can see it
already. So, make a better one. I I guess I'm I'm wondering if it would be better I think we've given Mike our our input and it would be more impactful if
when he writes his draft >> then >> bylaw that we vote to support >> that language to the bylaw review committee. I have no pro. I didn't know if we needed to take action like a to do
a formal act now to indicate to the bylaw committee, but if if that's not needed, then I don't see a need for it. >> Yeah. I mean, we certainly could. I I I would I guess I'd defer to him. Yeah. If if you have a draft bylaw that you're going to put together, >> if you want to send it to us, I'd be
happy to review it and >> potentially support that >> instead of just the sort of nebulous idea of a free committee. >> Okay, sure. >> Great. >> Yeah. And then that gives me a chance to run it up the flag pole, too. >> Yeah. Y and that way if there's
something the council sees or wants from us, we can we can take care of that as well. >> Okay. >> Perfect. Great. Mike, thank you so much. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. >> Is there anything else you want from us while you got us, you know, right here?
>> Keep coming to the meetings. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> How's that? >> Great. >> Thank you. Take care. >> All right. Printed copy. I'll just use that.
That is our schedule board uh discussion. Um, just looking back a little on decisions. I don't have any decisions for us to review at this time, but >> did the ANRS make it over here that needed to be signed or did you get three signatures?
>> Um, yeah, everything is f be it turns out because it was the second page myar after there was a miscommunication um on the back end on the applicant side, they did not need signatures on the second
page. Was it just the TOEFL page? >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Um, so there were two myar sheets. They only needed the first one signed. Um, so then in the end they managed to get that taken care of. Like it's all set.
>> Um, and yeah, otherwise everything's good. I will follow up with Richard because we did cuz there should be a decision for the last solar we did, right?
>> I thought that got taken care of already. >> Oh, maybe. >> I thought that was one of Jen's last >> Oh, yeah. I think it was. Okay, I will follow up. I think we all sat on those street, wasn't it? >> Was that >> That was on Goodrich Street. >> Yeah, I don't remember. >> I think it was one of the first things I voted on.
>> Okay. Yeah. Um, yeah. No, then I think we're fine. Okay. Um, and just looking ahead minutes, I don't have anything for us tonight because uh we've gone a little bit without admin
staff period in that building. Um but building uh department has a new has a new administrative assistant who seems rockstar. Just a real people who take it upon themselves to
learn and improve from day one are a delightful yet rare find. Um, and hopefully soon, if all goes according to plan, we will have an admin assistant as well to get us caught up on
our meetings. Boy howdy. Okay. Um, there's nothing major that's come through on a budding community notices. I one more came in from like Fitchburg today. I haven't looked at, so maybe I'm wrong and I'll tell you about it next meeting. Um, all right. Committee
reports. Master Plan Steering Committee. Um I was unable to attend the last event. Um there will be a meeting happening this Wednesday that I will be at. Okay. Um they have put together a
presentation for uh special town meeting upcoming and yeah everything looks I mean kind of moving steadily there. Open space committee. Um the last discussion was about what we just discussed. So
>> rock and roll municipal building design committee. Um discussion continues there. We had tours of Ritter and town hall last week week before. Did I talk about it at our last meeting because it had
already happened or No, >> I think you were talking about the possibility of it happening. Okay. Happened yet. >> Cool. Great. Um, the the number of nights I drag my boys to these buildings is large enough that
it it blurs fast. Um, on the plus side, they know how to navigate both buildings real well. Now, um, but no, I mean, we had a tour. What I will tell you is
um I got a fantastic photo from up in the attic of town hall here post bird poop cleaning. Uh there was no bird poop. So yes, but uh so what you may not realize is this building is held
together in large part. The the timber framing is without nails. It's old school. It's I mean Adam wouldn't know but no we're talking big massive timbers >> duct tape >> and all of them >> well what we were talk while we went
through it was interesting because among the things that the previous engineers had talked about after reviewing the building is town hall is rock solid like yes it is old um but the framing itself
in very good condition you wouldn't know that on a windy day when the building moves. >> Well, that's it's a big wooden building. Wooden building sway. But I did have a great photo of all this really old post and beam construction
with and then in the background you've got the computational guts of the 5G tower on the roof and the battery. So, it's that real funny juxiposition. Um, but now the committee is looking at is
looking at things. I'm unplugging my secondary monitor because I run cords under my feet. I shouldn't do that. Um, >> this whole table's cords under feet >> uh, big time. The I mean the committee continues to
run with the idea of can we move olive town functions into Ritter in some cap after modification of the building. Um and can and thus leaving the idea of
maybe the second floor of this building where we are now becomes um pack studio and then the first floor would by and large be converted to meeting rooms. There's I could I could go into depth if
anyone was interested about some of the discussions happening and about bullpen versus not. And what I'm seeing is there needs to be as much as there is a lot of talk between the employees
uh specifically the town manager and that committee we will need to see more going forward because um just to make sure everyone's needs can be met with future plans.
I am less convinced than my peers in that committee that preserving that Ritter being a government building is the right choice. I I want to say preserving Ritter. I I'm not suggesting Ritter be demolished, but
um I'm less convinced than some of my peers that using Ritter as a primary government building is the right move. But um there's a lot of people seem to and they feel the town feels otherwise. So, we'll see.
>> Is there a concern about the interpretation and application of the APD by the current APDC hindering this proposed project?
Um, the APDC is represented on the committee. So that has not been a topic of conversation yet. Um we will see how that shakes out and everything going
forward. But >> yeah, I've got I've got a lot of thoughts from the committee and and I don't want to take up all of our time dissecting >> No. And that was more of a >> Yeah. But no, I but it's just even on my own thoughts in terms of how this will
progress. If any of y'all want to talk about it, I'm happy to talk oneonone. And if multiple of y'all want to talk about it, then we can talk about it at a meeting because that's how we have to do it then. >> But um I mean there is progress being made
steadily. I am less convinced than some of the rate of progress, but I've been wrong once or twice in my life. So maybe this will be the third. Um, yes, I am wrong all the time. I'm aware. Um, I I whenever I say something like
that, I feel the need to then chime in and be like, "Yes, I'm being sarcastic." Okay. Capital Planning Committee is moving forward a little behind schedule. I missed our last meeting last Wednesday because I was ill. I still have to catch
up on that. We were supposed to meet this meet this Wednesday and review more departments, but um tomorrow being the holiday messed up when agendas have to be scheduled as per posted as per typical or as opposed to the typical. So, we are
not meeting tomorrow and we'll figure out the new meeting dates, but it's moving forward a little more last minute than usual, but town managers part of it and aware. And so, if we pivot a little into needing to do a little work in the
new year, we do a little work in the new year. That was always in that was a date of convenience, not a date of true absolute necessity. Economic Development Committee has not met since our last meeting will not be
meeting in November because it would nor the time it would normally meet is special town meeting. Um storm water task force um we are currently uh working on getting a new
um contractor designer for the whole thing. We weren't happy with what we were getting before. Um, so we are currently just waiting until after special town meeting uh to determine if
we have a budget to hire somebody new and then figuring it out from there. >> Fair. >> Uh, no meeting November. We'll be meeting second week of December, I think. Maybe first week. And will this new contractor
take over both the management of the NIP permit as well as the potential for the enterprise fund? >> Um I'm not sure. I know yes for the enterprise fund. I'm not sure what their
role is uh on the other portion. >> Okay. >> All right. Massachusetts Regional Planning Commission. Um, I know you could not attend the last meeting. I I could not. That's okay. So, >> yeah, I couldn't either. >> Yeah. >> All right. We got one more. Don't worry.
One more for the year. >> Um, that was that was the night after I was sick. It was really fun, let me tell you. Um, and Montichus Joint Transportation Committee.
>> Uh, we have not met since our last meeting and we're not meeting in November. We'll meet in December. Okay, great. Um, just up meeting schedule. Upcoming meetings include November 24th.
Is that the same week as Thanksgiving? Okay, great. Um, dear applicants, please don't have a lot of business for us then. I'm going to be cooking non-stop, but um, and our next meeting after that,
as uh, we discussed is December 15th. I have I have booked this room for that date. So, uh, everything on the back end is handled. Brian and Richard are aware and so anything that needs to be scheduled
for our meetings is going to be scheduled to then, not the 8th. And we should be good. >> Do we have any current hearings scheduled for the 24th? >> I do not know off the top of my head. Okay. Um,
I mean, if there's truly nothing going on and then >> I guess that was my sort of >> Yeah. >> You know, if we don't if if we don't have new hearings filed, then there's no new hearings coming because we're already too close to advertise >> because it wouldn't have needed to run
today as the 14th day. Uh, and I'm not opposed to meeting if there are items that need to be taken care of, but >> I'm not aware of any. >> My my uh perspective would be if there isn't anything pressing, it can probably wait till December.
>> I am in agreement and I'm getting nods from the board. So, if there is nothing that comes up, I will let us know and we will cancel that meeting because >> claw back what we can of our lives. Amen.
I was really excited. Capital Planning got cancelled on Wednesday cuz that was the that meant there's one night I get to see my wife this week >> until I realized it's also master plan steering committee. >> Well, you can have a date. >> Oh,
I I could. Hey, hun. >> Romantic. >> Yep. You want to go sit in a meeting room? >> What's unromantic about planning? >> Doing your civic duty. I think planning is a delightful late night discussion. My my wife thinks I should shut up and
let her sleep and Lindsay is correct. Um, uh, bless her. She puts up with a lot. Um, okay. In that case, I believe that's all she wrote, friends. Board comment. >> Oh, board com. You're right. Board
comment. Uh, so I actually have a couple of things. I attended the Southern New England American Planning Association conference Thursday and Friday of last week. Um, the Massachusetts chapter of APA has voted to
give free membership for the chapter only to members of planning and zoning boards. I believe you'd be required to pay the national dues, but if it's something that you're interested in, it might be worthwhile. Um, I'm reminded
that CPTC classes are starting again soon. >> Thank you. >> So, if you are interested for the 45 or 50 bucks and the 3 hours of your time, a lot of times on Zoom, they're well worth it if there's something that interests you. And the town has money to pay for
us to be trained. And the CPTC conference usually in the first or second week in March is it's a Saturday so you give that up but it's an excellent way to pack a bunch of um learning in and meet people from all
over the state who are doing the same thing that we're doing and you get a lot of different perspective. Um, additionally, I know that we've talked a lot about housing in this room and in
light of MBTA communities, what that might mean to our town going forward. Uh, Chapa has a municipal engagement initiative and what it is is they bring their
housing planners and others to town and they work to sort of set up a network of grassroots housing advocates to start and support and talk about housing
issues and sort of drive the proc process from the bottom up. It's an application process. You kind of need a group. Do I think it's something that we would be ready to apply for this year? Probably not. But I think it's something
that as we start to look at other housing options, mixeduse options, it's something we should seriously consider. Um because I think there's a lot of people in this community who have housing on the front of mind and they either don't know how to be engaged or
are afraid to be the one who starts the engagement. Um and this might be a way to take some of that energy and move it forward. >> Mhm. Uh and a final sort of thought is I attended a couple of panels on housing and reszoning
and one specifically on the missing middle which is what the whole MBTA community is about but it's it's kind of a larger issue and what I kind of walked away with and was most struck by was the impact of
mixeduse requirements on the financing of affordable able housing and how detrimental it can be to getting a private developer who may be interested in doing affordable units the
ability to fill their financing gap. So, as we start to look at some of these bylaws, we really should consider what mixed use means within the development and how we apply that and if
there's a way that we can approve mixeduse developments but have a separation between the residential and the commercial portions so that financing them and building them can be done almost independently. Even if the
development itself interplays the two, >> I I have like roughly 5,000 questions based on those handful of sentences right there at the end. >> I'm sure you do. >> Oh my goodness. Wow. I want to wrap my mind around this. >> Um,
>> yeah. I don't have I I'm not going to eat up all the I'm not going to eat all the board's time right now diving deep, but that is of >> interest to me. I had an even process that that would make that mixed use would make financing more difficult.
And the simple answer is when you finance a building at we'll say we're just going to use $100 because it's easy. 60% of it is probably going to be a loan and 40% of it is equity of
some sort. The developer who stands here and propose the plan usually is is giving about 8% of that equity and the remainder is a limited equity partner. And that limited equity partner is generally in one sphere or another
whether it's commercial affordable housing, market rate housing or something like that. and they can't wrap their head around what it means for vacancy rates, possible turnover, cost
of investment, and leases for a commercial space if they're a residential developer or residential investor. And so like the residential market is a known quantity to them and they know it fills at this rate. Here's
the vacancy. Here's what the growth is. Here's what the rents are. And so they're generally unwilling to touch mixed use because they don't know how quickly, consistently, and at what rate
the commercial will get filled. That's kind of the really simple answer. >> Wow. I'm going to move. we can talk about. >> I am so fascinated on so many angles right now.
Um, neat. Uh, again, this is also why my wife tells me to be quiet and go to bed because these are discussions I want to have with her. Um, all right. Uh, other board comment hearing none. Um, thank you all as
always coming from me and I would look for a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. I'm going to give Miss Reed the credit for the second on that one. >> I think she should get it. >> Thank you. >> Uh, all in favor? >> I
>> I friends. It is 7:28 p.m. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a wonderful night out there in Lunenburgg and we'll see you most likely and well, I'll see a special town meeting. You're going to be there right? Take care everybody.