##VIDEO ID:bs6TkJ3fIk8## okay oh there's Tom right now perfect timing Tom uh in accordance with the requirements of the open meeting law please be advised that this meeting is being recorded and will be able to be found on the lunenberg access YouTube channel after the meeting uh to view it remotely you can use the coordinates for provided on the meeting posting this agenda lists all of the topics which may be discussed at the meeting and are those reasonably anticipated by the chair votes may be taken as a result of these discussions not all items May in fact be discussed and other items not listed may also be brought up for discussion to the extent permitted by the open meeting law uh I am calling this meeting to order at 7:33 uh this is the uh lunenberg capital planning committee meeting on Wednesday December 29th and it is a all virtual meeting uh kicking off at 7:33 pm. uh is there any public comment hearing none uh next order of business is discussion on the interim Town manager proposed FY 26 Capital plan um I forwarded you folks uh earlier this week a draft warrant article and about an hour ago uh the interim Town manager forwarded me a um a an Excel spreadsheet um that detailed um all of the items that we had ranked um some variance in the numbers of the the uh costs uh and what he was recommending funding and not funding and uh I'll can turn that over to Carter I can share or if you could share that and I'd like to start with the sources of funding okay original or sources revised revised okay let me uh share my screen all right can you see so um originally when I gave you a target number I didn't realize we were going to have as much free cash as possible and I didn't realize uh how much of the capital previous Capital expenditures we might be able to uh rearrange uh so when I took a look at that I thought we might have as much as a million4 that we could distribute amongst capital and I'll speak to that in a moment and you can see the free cash minus uh Target contributions to your several funds and a Target snow and ice um and a car's deficit you have a deficit in your uh Grant cares grant that we need to pay off um since then uh since preparing the original warrant article um we have had two things pop up the first is uh I did not realize that the school committee was planning to leave TC pasos in its entirety uh and that was I did uh speak to Peter and he got that on the agenda at their last meeting uh and they confirmed that in fact that is their intent uh to leave the southern wing on or before July 15 and the central Wing honor before August 15 uh so we need to decommission about 2/3 of the building um the Department of Revenue has issued some directives to the board of assessors that need to be worked on so the capital number I had at 1.4 may have to get pushed down a little bit or the reserves might have to get pushed down uh a little bit but that's that's the monies that's uh potential uh allocations I'll work on those again tomorrow um and um U Jen Warren Diamond I've already got a two-inch snack of paper for her and a bunch of electronic file salted away she and I are going to uh we've told all the department heads to kind of clear the decks for Tuesday so she and I can go through everything and we'll follow up uh Peter could unless there's any questions on the the monies and sort of the variables that are there at the moment uh could we move to the I do have a question why the 7 75 is highlighted why is the 775,000 highlighted the 75,000 free cash oh yes that's just free cache I know but why is it highlight is it highlighted for a reason um other than to draw attention to it as distinct from the well that worked because I asked about it so that worked so the raisin appropriate uh your debt is going down a little bit around um I think 284 perhaps uh and I've 2 and a half% to that roughly um 292 it's somewhere in there uh you have two Capital expenses uh $300,000 you had budgeted uh for the demolition of the old primary school but your former TM was successful in getting some state grants to take that down uh so we're returning that um and the 25,000 I have to be perfectly honest with you I'd have to go back and look at what that was all about um but I will um I will look back and and be able to describe that to you um anything else on the revised sources of money so just to um just so that we all understand this and I appreciate you doing this car this is this is new for the not new for for the finance committee but a little new for the capital planning committee and looking at this funding in this detail but the total free cash is 2.2 million and then what is below it is monies from Fe free cash that are either unexpended or being expended in other places like the stabilization fund or whatever and then the 775 is being is going to the capital plan correct okay but there's still a remainder of $500,000 from the cash yes there is okay all right which we'll talk about a little bit later um and and just I know you're not the finance committee but just so you'll know I have a practice of trying to roll over about 1 and a half% of your Omnibus budget from one year into the next just as working capital okay uh and so that's my practice it might not be the incoming Town manager's practice and it may not be the the wishes of the select board and and the finance committee uh so that one remains open to question that's just where that number comes from gotcha if we could move to the warrant article um and so what I did was I took all the CPC rankings and I took the cost and the cumulative cost as we worked down through you excuse me I'm auditioning for the voice of WALL-E the walrus uh you can see that I have not recommended zero on the town hall HVAC upgrades and the town hall window replacements happy to speak to that towards the end uh you suggested to me that there was a break point between the your 1.2 and 1.6 million is to maybe we uh look at some lower cost items um so I did skip over the one ton and the six wheel after talking with Bill um we added the primary school window safety film um I will say this accommodates a revise number that I got on the primary school generator that's where about 150,000 of the Delta between the cpc's numbers in mine start to come from um the the uh North Cemetery expans expansion area um I've accounted for and the catch Bas and cleaning truck uh I've accounted for and that brings me uh to that 1.3 million that I've just revised here um over the last day or two as I've learned more about TC pasos and the drr directives um I'm assuming that column that ta recommends is really the town manager TM recommends right oh I'm sorry I'm in the wrong town Tom yes is I thought maybe I'm like I looked at this initially I'm like is this my you because those are my initials and I'm like is this my one they're showing like I didn't understand okay no no I'll I'll take the hits on this one I just want to make sure I understand where I am I have trouble with that also from time to time sure um so that's that's in that 1.3 range maybe it pops back up a little bit depending upon where all this ends um the paving at the cemetery I just didn't think there was money to do it all in one uh one hit uh so I did talk with Bill um and I think you know at least for a few years uh for about $50,000 we can crack seal it all cut out a lot of the bad patches um and then in two years or so you can go in and and do a resurfacing um and this will hold everything together in in my view um I did not recommend anything on the town halls and in the summary um uh that I've written subject to the incoming tm's wishes and desires I believe that the future of these buildings need to be settled in their entirety and we shouldn't invest much more unless it's really building protection roofs foundations and the like um until those questions are settled and they these kinds of repairs could be made as part of the settling of those buildings I know that may not be the popular philosophy I'm more than happy to talk about it uh but and I will share with Jen exactly where I'm coming from and she may not agree and I'm happy to answer any questions about why I carry that philosophy is the um is are we still expecting to see a a debt exclusion in the spring for the municipal buildings is that is that still tracking that's a question to you Carter do you know um you know here here's all I know at this point um I think that the committee got started what was it late October time or November even maybe even into December middle of October yeah um I haven't heard anything other than we're trying to get something for town meeting I haven't heard a number uh I haven't heard debt exclusion I have not been privy to any of those conversations I'm afraid I can't give you any better that's fair I don't want to ask you there has been there has been a number certainly put out there on the public meetings and that is in in the $15 million Mark I've heard that number as well but you know I mean I think the what's pertinent to this discussion is there is there is a proposal coming and the what what is not clear to me is if these items are inclusive in that proposal or not because I I understand that it's a it's a proposal that would include Town Hall at least uh and and and bringing town hall to a to a meeting facility um but would it include all of these items as part of that I'm not sure Frank that it would I think the I I would ask that you speak directly with the mbdc fair enough okay all right so can we go through Mr chair the the list and and talk about where the the the cpc's list and and the town manager's list differ so we can because I want to make sure uh yeah apologies here I'm having a problem with my no that's problem so so the first one I see is is like item five CPC ranking five so when I see a zero there doesn't mean you've done this it means that you believe we shouldn't do it that right it's not in the town administ or town manager uh recommended warrant article okay and the same so the same thing hold true of number 12 which seems like the only the next difference it does okay and then and then we get to those so nothing for the DPW so basically on this list the DPW as a department gets zero is that correct uh they get the catch Basin cleaner if we go down a little bit further okay uh and um the cemetery uh exp well that's not the DPW the DP that's just under the DPW but that's the cemetery okay and and why was it wh why don't you feel the onton truck utility body and plow number 17 um actually if I can get back to 1.4 million that would probably go back in Tom uh I talked with Bill about you know what's most important to you and he actually spoke to the uh catch Basin cleaner being the most important but I do uh want to and I don't know if this is the right place Peter uh speak to the financing of the truck the catch Bas and cleaning truck sure yeah so I don't know how deep they are but it's my understanding that the storm water task force will be proposing the creation of a storm waterer District and assessments under that storm water district if that is in fact the case and if that passes next year we could lease the catch Bas and cleaning truck over five years we would pay the very first year uh out of the capital fund funding and when the storm water district passes assuming it indeed does pass we could switch the lease to the district that would save $160,000 to be used towards other Capital this year that's the plus side the minus side is you do have a lease for um the five years and if it doesn't pass you have the lease uh however the interest cost is pretty nominal you're probably looking at $7,000 a year for uh um votation costs and the interest it's just and I I've had a little bit of time to think about this uh Carter car for everybody's benefit Carter mentioned this to me this morning on the phone I I I think the problem there is is that I'm not sure that the utility is a slam dunk right I mean that what what what we're doing is we're we're banking on the pro promise of additional Revenue that that is going to come from this utility which I don't I don't know that that's that that that I'd like I will vote for it like I I think we need to do it but I I'm not sure it's going to pass and and as a result of that there's a there's a bit of a gamble here right which is we're going to take on what is effectively interest over a fiveyear period where there's no there there's no clear path to to fund it other than the operating budget right and your debt will be going down again next year so you can take up in that if this yeah but I mean there's there's other places to spend that Deb that money to there are plenty of spaces places in needs here in in lunenberg I don't think we're I mean Tru be told I I'd rather I I'd rather spend the 200,000 and own that truck okay and just own it but but I'm sensitive to the fact that there are some trade-offs here you know particularly in the way of a on ton uh utility truck and and we do have a lot of onton trucks and we do need to replace those Vehicles so I just wanted to float it by the committee yeah could we defer the the purchase of the truck for a year till we see what happens with the utility um my understanding is most likely not uh the challenge um now this I've had a conversation with Bill that may not have been the conversation you had that's always a challenge when you have two separate conversations and you ask a set of questions and I ask a set of questions and I may ask him a different way um I will tell you that um I did ask Bill as to whether or not we could contract this out uh because right now frankly you're not getting all the way around town you've got around, 1300 catch Basin and uh Contracting out didn't prove feasible either um I I mean don't have a really strong strong feeling on this we can certainly uh get the one ton back in that's why I wanted to review this with the committee and get your thoughts on get your thoughts on my thoughts I guess the the other the other thing that I I do want to call the committee's attention to um and I had put this in an email back in December to everybody um is there this this also reflects the delta in the primary school generator um which if you recall has been a bouncing ball of of uh estimated estimated costs um and and so this does reflect the updated costs to which we have our our most recent quote but we've gone from a generator that was originally forecasted and and and prioritized at less than $100,000 to a generator that is now over $300,000 so um the good news is is it's certainly more accurate uh than than the the earlier quote and and hopefully very accurate um but that is a very expensive piece of equipment and and in my mind um I I think you know frankly that school should have been built with a backup generator uh 20 years ago and and as a result of that there's a there's a load being put on that building because it does tend to lose power for whatever reason um but that is not an inexpensive piece of equipment that's about 150,000 I hadn't planned on when I initially got your report well my understanding it was 150,000 that wasn't presented to us while we were doing the calculation either ab and I I don't want to you know I don't want to cast dispersions but I will say this is not the first time that this department has made us face this issue so it is kind of a a sorry state where we continue to get estimates that we make our decisions on that don't come anywhere near to be close and therefore the the ranking of that may have been different given that given that change which is almost nearly doubled in price that we were given so you know I I understand the importance of the equipment but you know I that's fine I'm not necessarily fine with the catch Basin now if you're saying that Bill is saying the catch Basin is now his highest priority when he presented to us wasn't His Highest priority people will understand that the whole structure of what we do as a committee is predicated on what people in the head of the Departments tell us as important so you know it's really hard to come up with prioritizations that change for not anything that I know that is clear in this case about the catch Basin but I'm even willing to put that forward what I my list this list presented tonight my only objection that is a serious objection is the removal against the ranking of this committee as a whole of the Town Hall issues but I am willing to stipulate that if we put this article after and we can work with the chair of the board of selectman after if there is a municipal building article that we put it after that then we could remove those two because it'll be covered if the municipal building design design cost article would pass I'd be fine with that but I'm not fine with it being just eliminated because if we don't do it these windows and these HVAC I mean the HVAC in that building is horrible and as anybody who've been in the building lately would tell you and the windows are equally horrible and the architectural preservation committee and the historical commission would say that this is really demolition by neglect we're not we're just not paying attention to the building so those two zeros are my only concern in this whole thing of major concern understood um and I I I I would agree with that and it seems to me no matter what we do with the building or what we are gonna ultimately use it for the HVAC and the windows are going to need to be replaced regardless of what we do with it so I think think about that right but if it's covered under another project a larger project if the MB if the the municipal buildings mbdc comes back with a whole holistic plan then that will be those costs will be covered again one we need to be sure those costs are covered in there and two I don't think it's a complete solution because we've still got employees and facilities are built we've still got employees working in that building so I think the sooner we address those issues the better I also worry about the turnaround time of wrapping this into a larger larger project that that fiscally certainly it could get into a it could be wrapped into a bigger project but um I think a lot of the the scope of that kind of project we've been talking about um could potentially still be years unless there's movement there I I don't fully understand which is possible but otherwise these fixes could occur in the shorter term and meet um some fairly immediate needs as has been discussed so let me let me offer this um because I don't I I want to get to a place where we can we can hopefully get some give Carter some direction uh first of all Tom I appre apprciate your suggestion but if you recall the argument that we had a few years ago about Capital the capital plan and how that article is brought forth and what can be amended and not amended on town meeting floor um I don't think that your suggestion would hold W hold water with the current interpretation of the bylaw that you have that you have promoted well I I would respectfully disagree because I think that the article is brought forward and if if it's not it should be I'd have to look at the wording in the past is brought forward by the capital planning committee it should be brought for not it is not the article is brought forth by the town manager and and it it only reflects the capital planning committee's recommendation but it is the town manager's article and the the bylaw uh no I understand thew that I brought forth a couple of years ago was that we could amend it and you you took the opposite side and said we shouldn't so we have a we have an article that can't be amended well the the the it could be lowered the number could be lowered uh well that's not also that's also not true I mean again this would be the plan and we could well I mean there there's probably ways that you could do this I mean you should be able to put two articles on there from the town manager and then decide to pass over one you could have two Capital articles the town manager could do that that's the solution so there's ways around it yep that's a or um you know in many communities as you know the moderator might read the list and um a citizen would yell out hold and any item that's what Peter's saying is not allow we can't do that okay look let me let me rethink the buildings I mean my concern is um I I guess well I I think I've laid out my concern which is the town just needs to wrap its head around what it's going to do with these buildings and continuing to put Band-Aids on them as much as they may be needed is not necessarily the best so I I'd also point out just and and ultimately this is for you to recommend and the new town manager to to put forth in an article um I I would also point out that if you take those two numbers together they are relatively similar to the cost of the generator so you know that that is a potential tradeoff and not an unreasonable one let me let me rethink it um it is the interim Town manager re recommendation to the town manager to make a recommendation hi will make her recommendation but the reason I've asked for this conversation is I try to reach um an accord sure to the best I can with various groups um if for no other reason so folks can understand my reasoning and I can understand yours and by the way so for the record I do understand your reasoning and and I hear you and I Concur and you know believe me in earlier meetings of this committee not only not only in this session this year but last year as well there's been a frustration that the town hasn't chosen anything and haven't decided what to do and we keep perennially seemingly get put in this position of like do we spend some money here when it it could be wrapped in a bigger problem a bigger project but and I I just want it done and I'm willing to let the mbdc process proceed but if it's fails if they don't come up with an article or it they do and it fa and the article fails we just have to take care of these these buildings these are not interior carpets or anything I mean the windows are a major part of the exterior shell and the HVAC is the working conditions of people there who have incredibly bad heat and cold conditions year round I was there late night for a school committee meeting a couple of weeks ago and it was it was pretty rough so I yeah we had two people at our select board me meting on Monday we had two people wearing their coats in the in the in the meeting room so yeah yeah can I can I ask this um on a scale of absolutely to nope would the if the price of the generator had been known do you think it would have dropped down the rankings I mean I I also kind of hate to skip over number 14 um providing backup protection for the kids in the school um I honestly think it would have and I I say this as a the context here is is that the school committee discussed this multiple times and determined that they wanted to keep it with the priority that it had so that is that is the school committee's opinion okay my opinion is that it would have dropped because of the cost of this thing in the reality that we've been running that school for 20 years without a backup generator so um there it it it is arguably contributing to the wear and tear on the building um we still would not be able to run a school day W even with that generator right like this is really to maintain the core systems of the building but it's not it it is not the complete building so I I would I would personally drop it given that number now I'm glad to take the funding and I think that this is a a a worthy investment I just I'm I'm very sensitive to all of the things that we have to balance here I I would agree ex pretty much spoton with what Peter just said I think it would have I would have dropped I think it would have dropped I don't know how significantly but it would have dropped yes I would agree arer I know you said you were going to address it later on uh but there's also the the additional 500,000 free cash uh we could do both of these things other things to talk about you you could I cannot recommend it to the interim Town manager however and the reason is um I believe that free cash a portion of it each and every year should be rolled into the next year as working capital at the beginning of the year um it's just a philosophy I've always worked with um I roll over about a percent and a half that's a relatively modest amount for any business to carry forth um and that's my reasoning um but I do think uh that with the thoughts I've received on the primary school generator um I will revisit this tomorrow okay all right do we want to move on um if we could go back to the um sources revised uh the reason you know so the plan I just showed you only had a million three when I originally had hoped for a million4 Peter can you scroll down a little bit please uh and the reason for that is it is Chris ru's best estimate that he needs about $75,000 to decommission the Central and North Wing at TC pasos this is this number right here on the bottom yeah uh the plan uh is to effectively put up a firewall um if if you come in the entry you take a little bit of a right and then just head down the central Corridor uh as you turn that Central Corridor uh right in there I think there's a bathroom or or two even perhaps a firewall would be built there the sprinkler system uh would then have to be cut off and capped Plumbing um Electric uh we would have to change the uh fire alarm system um smoke detectors will not work with a lack of heat so we have to go to heat detection uh and then there's a little bit of work to get the southern uh get the southern Wing um uh fit out a little bit ADA Bathroom um to be created and such so 75,000 of free cash is now uh needing towards that as opposed to going into the capital I could push the capital back up a little bit and push the increase to the reserves down Mr bone which kind of gets us the same place um the board of assessors have shared with me a directive from the Department of Revenue of things they need to get done over the next five years there are two that are immediately problematic uh the first is that the town has not been auditing its chapter lands and by that I mean there's supposed to periodically um view Satellite photographs walk it uh and make sure that the land actually is what the application was for and there hasn't been any form of use or development that would uh breach uh the granting of chapter land status to the properties uh and then the uh other item is what I spoke to you on the the cemetery I didn't think we could find $225,000 to do all the roadways but by crack sealing them and cutting out the worst patches I think we can get you about three or four years before you could then put uh a new course of pavement on it all so um those are the things that I'm facing with and we'll talk with Jen about on um on Tuesday morning but I wanted you to see why I ended up pushing the capital plan down a little bit from my original 1.4 million hope to about 1.3 million so Carter would those items be uh included in the Omnibus or is a separate article funded by free cash a standalone article funded by free cash individually or together as one group those um I would most likely put them together as one group okay I wouldn't want to put them in the Omnibus because then you're funding the Omnibus with free cash and I wouldn't want anybody to think that that's a good idea right no I agree with that yep so those are really all the thoughts I wanted to get out in front of y'all tonight see which concerns and questions you had so you weren't surprised by well you'll be surprised how I revise it after tonight perhaps but well I mean but it I and I appreciate everybody's flexibility in getting this thing scheduled and having this meeting tonight because it was there was a school committee meeting earlier tonight off cycle it's just been one thing after another so thank you all for taking the time to get this done before Carter's departure so no problem okay um can I stop sharing this y yep yep I I'm done with what I wanted to get ACR um so back to our agenda um we wanted to so so you had covered TC pasos as what I had listed as our revised agenda number four Carter um I had included both the Track and Field Complex and the TC pasos complex as our agenda item number four I think we're covered with TC pasos or is there more to cover there uh the only thing I want to go back to very quickly don't need to spread the uh screen for this um I have topped it up it's not a lot of money but given the way things have gone um I've topped up the tally of the specific items with around $60,000 of a contingency um these numbers have been so far off the Mark at least the ones I've been dealing with uh that topping it up a little bit I thought was just a wise measure of of protection I think that's a good idea and probably a good practice for the next few years um so um just with respect to the core Capital plan we'll have a discussion in a moment about future meetings um but I I will look to you know once the new town manager has had an opportunity to get settled and has presented or budget and that sort of thing um I I will connect with Chris and try to get his sense for do we need to have a meeting specifically to look at her recommendation and and it might have some you know depending upon the variance with what we've seen and talked about tonight um and perhaps you know can we harmonize this with a finance committee meeting or something along those lines um I think that those are all potentially options on the table but I just wanted to I'm I'm sensitive to the fact that we need to give the new town manager an opportunity to kind of get settled and do her job um but I I also want to have as much as a dialogue as as is reasonable uh and and uh possible with the new town manager with this committee I will just tell you that I have warned everyone that her first 10 days here are going to be pure hell uh because I we're not at a point where I could get everything totally buttoned up so I will go through everything with her the departmental budgets that I've signed off on she needs to review uh yet the ones that yet need to be and then it's got to be packaged so I will I will tell you it's going to be a a bit of a hectic few days for her y I absolutely anticipate that okay um I want to switch gears to to the track and field complex and and brief everybody on the the conversations that have occurred over the course of the last month or so with respect to the track and field so um you'll recall that when the school department came uh last uh last fall and presented its Five-Year Plan um there was a roughly $2 million over a two-year period to address uh the track and field facility and we have talked about that uh quite a lot uh in our committee over the course of the last couple of years and and all the issues there um over the course of the Fall um there have been a number of inquiries and complaints dare I say um about the accelerating degradation of that facility um and I personally have concerns that within a year uh we could be in a situation where we're putting engineering tape around the Press Box and um uh bleacher facilities and perhaps not even able to use the the turf field um we we've got to address that facility as soon as we can um and so with that in mind I made a request to the superintendent and finance director to bring forth a proposal that included all of the costs for both the hill project as well as the turfield and the track um as well as a potential Revenue plan to offset those costs for Springtown meeting um still with that number of about $1.5 to2 million in mind and the idea being if we were to go and do let's say um a regular debt uh offering uh to finance that um how would we potentially offset that with additional revenue and uh there have been discussions around an additional cell phone tower uh as well as discussions about adding solar uh to parking lots including uh at least the student parking lot at the Middle High School uh but potential other parking lots as well um for those of you have not been to Fitchburg High School recently um they have a parking lot um that they have put up a so couple of solar canopies over um adjacent to the school and uh I think it looks great it actually helps them when it comes to dealing with snow uh on a snow day and that kind of thing as well as uh generating uh revenue and power for their their District um unfortunately it's just not feasible to get all of that information ready for a reliable warrant article um for the warrant deadline uh it it's just not not there um so the discussion has sort of evolved around can we be ready for fall town meeting um does it make sense to begin the discussion and get a sense from the town of their willingness to fund this their thoughts on solar on our properties like those kinds of things um at Springtown meeting or should this all go to the fall uh and and the idea um that has emerged is perhaps we look for funding just to bring this project to a bid ready project um so the the engineering if you will to bring it to bid ready um and then that'll give us the opportunity at town meeting to have the discussion about the warrant you know the the the the um the need for the project uh the potential plan to uh to offset the cost and the borrowing for it um but to at least seed the funding to get us to the point at fall toown meeting we're bid ready we we we authorize a borrowing article and then move forward with that project um so I I don't that may have been a confusing explanation but what I just shared with you sort of the discussion that's occurred over the last couple of months so I wanted to to bring that to you folks number one just to inform you of of the discussions um but also to answer your questions get your feedback are we crazy to be even thinking about this do you view this is way outside of the boundaries of what we should be doing in capital planning and that sort of thing because I I do want this to be as transparent as possible Peter are you talking about borrowing within two and a half or you talking about a debt exclusion I'm talking about a regular borrowing article so it' be within the confines of two and a half um therefore the service on that debt would have to be paid for inside of the the levy limit so we would need to seek an alternative Revenue source to offset that that Debt Service gotcha so I mean we have lots according to what people are predicting we have lots of big money articles on Spring if the mbdc puts something forward if the Parks Commission puts something forward forward we're looking at lots of millions it depends on what this dollar amount is to do the engineering to get a bid ready project so I don't know if the mbdc is any Rel probably be less than that but I'm assuming you're talking around 75 to 100K you're right in the ballpark so you know I don't again I've been one of the people who said you know lots of people put lots of work and lots of energy to make that turf field happen then they put equally amount of energy to get it resurfaced when we did uh I don't know how it becomes an emergency when it's been brought forward and brought forward and pushed back and then of a sudden it becomes an emergency I always always without any you know natural disaster I have a problem with that because we keep talking about in this committee that we need to need need to see the big picture the five I'm fine with a five-year picture some members of this committee want to see a 10-year picture but here's something automatically like zooms to the front that we said okay say we can wait we can wait even the people in the school department and the school committee say we can wait but now we can't wait and it's always hard to prioritize these things and to plan for them in those conditions so I understand that needs to be done I'm not necessarily against the article I just wonder about a reception when a a town meeting when we have that many articles if all those articles I mentioned come forward I think the taxpayers and the uh and the citizens of the town are going to be a a little bit shell shock especially coming off the override from last year yeah I mean I think that for the most part that's reasonable feedback I I me the reality is is that we've known this as an issue it it's just the deterioration is accelerating I mean it's it's clear as day you know it is what it is when was the last when was it re resurfaced last was it like seven years ago eight years ago it was 20 it was um late 2017 or early 2018 so it's so it's seven years ago it's got about eight years in it right now seven or eight right which is and the lifespan was was between eight and 10 in without the drainage problems so well yeah and and I I think I've shared with you guys like I I the the the working Theory right now is is that the padding that was put down under the turf is not compatible with the drainage system that was so well if it was that easy that'd be nice because then would make a little bit easier than hey retrenching everything and rebuilding whatever drainage design you need to put together but I mean I I I think it's a rock in a hard place I think I could certainly see putting it on if you can get a number that makes sense and that we hit that number um I would likely be supportive of that project because I think again of the amount of use it gets and the amount of programming it gets it just makes sense um yeah my go ahead go ahead man okay now my my excuse me uh similar to Tom I think my biggest concern is simply marketability um selling yet another big project to the town at a time of a a lot of big projects um I I've I was less convinced about the money to be spent on the uh just on that whole complex a couple years ago and I've very much come around on it um I 100% see the value I I have trouble imagining I wouldn't be in support but um we had a lot of people upset at the idea of we need some money just to keep Schools running correctly and I worry about the fees I worry about every big project going forward right now and I don't have a great solution on that one I wish I did it's p almost purely political at this point not you're absolutely right and there's a lot of big projects right like I mean that's the reality of the situation and and one that I've been very mindful of over the course of the last year with respect to this thing right um you know and and lots of talk of borrowing for parks and you know all kinds of other stuff right and and it's it's a crowded field so I I you know one of my part of my thinking on this also uh re relies on the question I I saw pieces of the school committee when the when the superintendent presented you know the beginning parts of the budget and what our current costs would be etc etc so people asked at last town meeting and I will ask in preemptively and I don't know that there's an answer but I mean is the school looking for another override this year that is another that will definitely factor into this question yeah and I mean I don't know I have no idea so that's that's really that's that's really frightening that we're at February 1 almost and we that we don't even know the answer to that question so that definitely plays into support for doing Fields because while I am fully fully fully come back to you Tom is the select Bo gonna is the select board gonna bring forth an override to deal with all the funding shortfalls from the town side this year I mean you know no okay I will tell you that I mean as one member I will vote no because we should know it already and if we don't know it already then we're not going to I'm not going to support it so from the town side at least one member of the board I would not support an override on the town without a full study about what we need to do and why we're having it um like I said I profess my support for the part for the fields and I I continue to do that but if pressed and everything just like our own list that we just showed earlier comes to prioritization if I had to prioritize between academics and Athletics I'm going to choose academics so I mean and that might be unpopular to some people and I'm not saying Athletics don't have a role of course they have a role but the primary role of school presumably is academics and education so if I had to pit those two against each other that would definitely weigh into my thinking and uh of that article I mean I don't it's certainly not the way I look at it I don't think we should be pitting them against each other and I think that you know part of the role of the school department is to offer a breadth of programming and and and uh you know ensure that we are uh offering programs that keep our kids focused and engaged and and involved and um Athletics are an important part of that and uh it's not the only part certainly but it's an important part so um any event okay I appreciate the feedback uh Rob did you have anything else you wanted to add to this just on on the subject I would observe that the the fields are are bigger than just the schools too the community makes use of that space as well so that's something to think about yeah it does it it it is heavily Pro that particular facility is heavily programmed by the schools um but um but it it is frequently you know my son my son is a is a track athlete and we spend a lot of time in the throwing circles on the weekends and you know that facility is used all the time to include when there's snow cover out there there are people out there uh so yeah they are used a lot okay um thank you for that feedback uh okay we have an item to discuss uh future meetings to cover Five-Year Plan policy um standardization for requests and a report to town meeting um I bring this for because I'm mindful of the fact that um we are now in budget season we are now moving to a new town manager um oh by the way we are also now replacing a superintendent uh seems like it's endless um but I would like to move the ball on some of this um so I I before we narrow down to like when can we meet and I think that that will actually have to be probably a little bit more of an asynchronous conversation because it it does need to include Chris as well who is not available tonight um but of those matters I I wanted to have a brief conversation tonight about okay if we can get in a meeting or two before town meeting where do we want to focus do we want to focus on a five-year plan on some kind of policy recommendation around Capital planning um by the way I think that that may require a little more give and take with the new town manager so maybe that is I don't know but I I wanted to I wanted to get your feedback on sort of what would we prioritize if we could get in let's say a couple of meetings before before early may I think to me the most pressing is to get our minds around A Five-Year Plan um I think policy could or probably should wait until we have an idea of uh really of who the new town manager really is to work with and um so we're we're all more equipped to have a dialogue with each other but um we we've talked for a couple years now about getting our teeth into a five-year plan and if we don't why do we keep talking about it so I would say two things I I I would agree with Matt I would also say that the The Five-Year Plan really hinges on a dialogue with the town manager and we need the town manager to get settled so that I don't see that happening before town meeting but I agree with you fiveyear plan is definitely in order what we can do in the interim uh if we were going to meet before then is the standardization of forms which continues to be plaguing to me you know we should have a form that we fill out that everybody all the Departments have their own tab we provide the form they provide the tab so they can fill out everything so we don't have the chair or somebody else in our committee coating all this and it's in the form we need when it's presented their PowerPoint can be whatever they want their PowerPoint to be but the submissions uh of of the spreadsheets should be a form that we can say these are the information pieces we need uh for it that would make it so much easier to follow and we don't need anybody except ourselves to do that Tom may have changed my opinion pretty directly on that one that's good that can be a I mean I think that's totally reasonable right we you're absolutely right we can do that like that's within our power uh and not dependent on anybody else one of us just needs to come up with a proposal we discuss it change it approve it disseminate it all right that's good feedback um and I so so what I would what I would suggest then is I will look to schedule a meeting specifically to talk about that um at some point in the next 11 business days Carter I will uh reach out to the new town manager um and offer uh myself as a resource to discuss any of these items to include the FY 26 Capital plan but also uh to get her feel specifically around topics like five-year Capital plan guidance to departments po Capital policy like those kinds of things and and get her sense for when she thinks that she will be ready to discuss those things and then advise the committee of that timeline just one item for you to keep in mind with respect to timeline if the committee does wish to uh present a report of some fashion at the annual town meeting and wishes to have that included in the warrant book uh the drop dead for that is basically um March 20 so I think absent a policy review and recommendation I I don't think we should do that um I I leave that to you I'm just letting you know yeah uh the date that you my thinging is if we had a policy recommendation and or a 5-year Capital plan or Outlook to present then we would present it but it doesn't sound like we're going to be there which case let's not spend too much time talking about it I I think though to the extent not that there won't be a consensus at the end to the extent that the committee continues to diverge from the ultimate recommendation of the Town manager I think we ought to have a report in the warrant okay so the all right so let's let's just talk this through logistically for a minute and I'm not I don't disagree with you rob um Town manager is going to present her Capital plan when the 11th the 11th to the 13th it depends upon uh whether the select board uh she's scheduled to present on the 11th to the select board and the 13th to the finance committee given given the late entry um we may have to push that to the 13th uh but that is the intent to deliver capital and operating budget and draft warrant so to be a February 13 to be able to react to that we would need to meet on the 17th you guys meeting on the 17th Matt um let me sorry about that I am checking on the 17th of February yep um that vacation because that is President's Day oh of course yep I think it's also not our scheduled day but oh that's school vacation week too so yeah it is uh school committee is meeting on the 26th actually so okay we could potentially meet on the 19th for a virtual meeting I'm unavailable for vacation week but ah okay I just if you know if we're going to react we need to react within because the we got to get in a some kind of reaction relatively quickly right when does the warrant close Carter Friday March 20th did you say for all internal organizations it closes Friday okay so we could put in a all right so Friday two days from now Friday yes yes okay okay so we could put in a request to hear a report and then determine that report sometime between now and town meeting or with or withdraw it off the warrant because the warrant final for another six weeks okay so he said he said that if we want a written report which is what you was common a written report in the warrant we hav until marched something to do that right right to deliver the report yes I would just need a you know will the town vote to receive yes okay so do we all agree that we would like to submit a warrant article for the town to receive a report from the from the capital planning commit we can pass over if we not to use it we haven't done that in the past by the way we just included in the the warrant that's what I was thinking that we would include a report in the warrant that we wouldn't necessarily report to town meeting we would include a report in a warrant to go with that's what we have done in the past forever okay all right y we can do that it's basically a summary of the process it's not really a it's not really a a support or criticism of what's in the warrant it just shows tells you the hardships we had you know the amount of article basically just some statistical facts about how many projects were submitted as what cost fact okay yeah okay so all right so with that in mind and the fact that the week of the 17th is probably not feasible um I will draft a proforma response but I think we will need to meet before the warrant is final let me just say if what you're going to do is deliver a report that would be published in the warrant it's just being published there's no warrant article required you have until March 20 okay the into the office let me also say that I suspect I'm trying to be sensitive to uh the committee's views on these buildings you I think we both understand where each other's coming from um and I will um I suspect we'll be more closely aligned after I take another look at this tomorrow okay all right I think we're good and I I will communicate with you all once we have that recommendation from the town manager um and propose a meeting to discuss the form and the report okay I am available the last two weeks in February and the only week in in March I'm out is the week of the 9th all right of March so well I would be aiming to meet in February but last week in February I can meet so all right okay um any uh anything else to talk about okay um I had put approved minutes on the uh on the um agenda we were emailed uh minutes by Danielle for December 16th we can vote on those tonight or we can table them I didn't bring them to anybody's attemp I I didn't look at them yeah I didn't either table it okay that's fine I I should have brought it to your attention and neglected to do so uh is there any public comment I just want to thank you the committee for taking an hour of their time to go through this with me oh I thank you for going through it and thank you yes and thank you for your service Mr pios I'm gathering from your camera being turned on you have a comment yes uh very very quickly Peter and you're all aware of this but I just want to make sure the rest of the committee is uh you know our years together on the finance committee we we bumped this these subjects uh back and forth uh through all those years we were together um all of the projects that you guys were discussing earlier possibly coming forward as uh non-exempt borrowing and exemp borrowing uh that are potentially in the pipeline cannot hit the budget all at the same time they will push us way beyond our borrowing policies uh if we try to do all that at the same time and that's been the issue for years we haven't done any major projects so they're all piled together and our 4% limit on I believe uh Peter maybe correct me if I get this wrong 4% borrowing uh non-exempt borrowing uh which would pay be paid for within the in this budget and I think it's 11% uh for Exempted or is it total 11 no you're you are correct it is um I don't know if the total is 11 but you the numbers that you just cited at least for the nonexempt is definitely four but that's the service as a percentage of the Omnibus right so I'm just saying and by the way we're like I believe right now it's been a while since I looked at those numbers but I believe we're below 1% right now yeah and that's because we haven't taken on any borrowing to get anything accomplished um anyway I bring that up the other comment I'd just like to make um in regards to the projects that you discussed this evening about asking Carter to try to get the town hall uh envelope projects back into the uh plan um I take you back to the paos building the first day I met with the redesign committee I'm going to say that's six years ago now my comments in that first meeting were that unless we're going to take care of envelope issues as they arise now we're not going to have a viable building to work with when we bring a project forward and here we are today we don't have a viable building because absolutely nothing uh per se was done to protect that building from the elements if you keep pushing Town Hall repair uh not only are your employees uncomfortable but the building's going to deteriorate even more uh and with the uh building project quote end quote shooting for $15 million the latest ad iteration adds a number of millions of dollars putting a sub basement into that building uh they're going to have to do one or two things they're going to have to ask for more than 15 million or they're going to have to slash the project to get it within that 15 million um those are my comments and they're strictly my comments but thank you all right thank you Mr pasos any additional public comment I will entertain a motion to adjourn so moved second all those in favor Mr Alonzo I Bowen hi Mr Brer hi and an i for myself we are adjourned at 8:40 pm thank you all for your uh time attention and patience good night everyone night everybody thank you